Nov 09, 2020 Historic Landmark Commission on 2020-11-09 3:00 PM

Thank you. Good afternoon. Welcome everybody. This is our regularly scheduled. Meeting of the historic landmark commission. First thing I'll notice that we do have a quorum present. So we are good to open the meeting. Let's start the meeting with the pledge of allegiance. If we can all join in. I pledge allegiance to the United States of America. And to the Republic. For which it stands. One nation. Under God. Indivisible. With liberty and justice for all. And now the Texas pledge. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, for which it stands. I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, for which it stands. With a little housekeeping here. Roy. Mary. We have Evan. Is Angie here yet? No, not yet. Okay. Now. Okay. Noted the quorum. Okay. There's going to be a slight change in our agenda. We're going to move item D. Which is a report on. The five G historic district poll options to the very end. Are there any. Discussion about that. Otherwise we'll consider it done. Hearing none. I think we have actually. Five things on our agenda. Item two. Item two is to consider, which is HLC 20 dash zero four eight. Consider the approval of the September 21st, 2020 minutes. I think those were all attached to our version. So I need a motion to. Carry that forward. Okay. Thank you. And then we have a motion to approve the approval of the minutes. Has been submitted. I second the approval of the minutes. Okay. Cassandra. Thank you, Evan. Thank you. We have a motion to second any corrections or discussion. Hearing none. Let me call the role. Yay for Roy. Mary. Yes. Janelle. Okay. Now, Evan. Present. Okay. Is that a yay or an A or an abstention? On the approval of minutes, you have to. Vote yes for the minutes. Or no. Oh, okay. Yeah. A for the role. Okay. Angie. It's not here. Melody is here somewhere. No. Melody is not here. Cassandra. Yay. Okay. So we have. I think. One, two, three, five eyes and no nays. So the minutes are approved. Thank you. Chair, I think, did you, did you include melody in that? Yay. Okay. I count six years. Okay. Okay. Yes. Got it. All right. The second item on our agenda is. To consider approval of the 2021 historic landmark commission meeting calendar for next year. This came up, I think last month, and we all went through this. And I think it's going to be. It's a housekeeping type. Motion. Why don't I just open it up for discussion? You know, do you, does everyone here have their version of the calendar? I'll read off the dates. I've got on the screen. If you want, if you, if you want to read it, you can read as well, but I also have it on the screen. Kind of hard to see, however, but. Okay. Typical. Except for April, I believe we moved that up to the fifth. Right. We moved it up one, just because it wouldn't be on our tax deadline. So. Okay. Hearing no discussion. I need a motion to approve the calendar and then we'll vote on that. A motion to approve the calendar. Do we have a second? No discussion. Motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Mary, your vote. Hi. Janelle. Lenny is out. Evan. Melody. Melody. Hi. Katie is out and Cassandra. Hi. And I'll switch up the order of these and a Roy votes. Yes. So we have one, two, three, four, six. Yay. Zero nays motion passes. That will be our calendar for next year. Okay. Okay. The next thing on our agenda. Item C C O a dash 20 dash. Oh, one six. Is the whole to public meeting and consider an application for redevelopment. To repaint a building located at eight 15 North Locust, which is a designated local. Historic landmark. The site is located on the west side of Locust street between Ferguson and Pauline street. I think Ron is our presenter. So I'll turn it over to you. Thank you, chair. I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. Okay. So again, as mentioned, this is for a COA. To consider a C. A repainting. Project for property located at eight 15 North Locust. Locust street that is, and you can see from the. Image here that it's in this area here. That's shown in purple. On the left. On again, Locust street. The subject property or subject home as you see here is the, a home that's been there. And for some time that's it's considered a Southern Victorian. Architecture. It's a local historic landmark. It was designated back in 1998. And it's known as the Brown low house, according to our list. The entire structure. My understanding is that the applicant has, or has acquired a property where the interior has been redone. And they're wanting to re. Rehab the exterior as well. So that's part of their proposal is to repaint the entire structure. They do provide the color palette that you see here. And they're also providing some examples of. How the roof trim as well as any accent. For the subject project. The applicant submitted some examples to illustrate what their intent is, is to enhance the architectural Victorian. Style of the home by providing the more muted or more. Controversial style of the home. What the Victorian home would look like. Staff did analyze the subject application as you know, the applicant is trying to rehab the existing home. It is a historic landmark designation. So it does need to follow a standard. And it does not have to be. This in particular was more of a rehabilitation of the structure. So in your backup, I provided some standards that relate to the work in, in staff's analysis. It does meet the requirements and the standards and therefore staff is recommending approval for the subject site. To be repainted as presented. For the property located at eight 15, North Locust street. So that's the plan. That's the plan. Thank you. That's it. Thank you. That's it. Thank you. I understand for any questions. My understanding is the applicant may or may not be on the call, but hopefully she is. She, she was very excited. And there they are about the project. And if you have any questions for them, or if you would like for them to talk about what they're planning to do, I certainly that's, that's an option for the commission. And if you have any questions, feel free to go ahead. So I never knew that was Southern Victorian. It certainly kind of looks like a strange. Tutor style of sorts. It's actually more of a queen and Victorian. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's for preservation and standards for rehabilitation. And I, which one did you say this? You'd sent that out. I was looking at the hood. She'd sent out. There's preservation rehabilitation and restoration. And you said which one you were. Rehabilitation. Okay. Thank you. I think all of them can apply, but that one was more specific to what the applicants were trying or are trying to do. Okay. Thank you. This does a point of clarification. These are designated historic standard colors. So the colors that we've chosen are not listed in the exterior historic colors, but they are, they have a lot of similarities to those. We are looking at. The design for the place. She is an interior designer and been doing this for over 30 years. And so we were looking in comparison to the houses that are surrounding us. With Giuseppe's restaurant to one side. And another property on our left that are both the color palettes of the hour, which is kind of like a deeper gray or blue gray. And so. So some of the historic colors tend to have a little bit more yellow in the neutral tones. And so these are very comparable to those just without that. Yellow undertone. When it comes to the body of the house. I'm very familiar with the houses you speak of. I've stayed in the one you're going to paint my next door neighbor. I'm not sure that is a color except for patchwork white. The last time I saw it. So I'm not sure that worrying about matching those colors is of any interest whatsoever since they desperately need a paint job. Yours looks great compared to their paint job. So I guess I'm back again as to why. You're just saying that because it's a little touch warmer. You want a less warm color is what you want. When it comes to the body of the home. Yes, we were not going for the golden yet, the golden neutrals that tend to be in historic color palette. We wanted something that was a little bit softer than those colors. Okay. Are there any other questions for Ron or for our property owners? Well, I have a question for Ron. I mean, if the historic committee, I mean, I'm all for painting the house. God knows I live in one that's old enough. That if you're changing the color, you had to change them to historic colors to meet the guidelines put forward. So Ron, if you would explain to me how these colors meet the standard since I would be up against the same thing if I painted my house. I can use the exact same color or I have to use a historic palette. So I want to know how this qualifies. So, you know, one of the things, obviously, it's not any historic district. It's actually a historic landmark. So as far as the development code, there's really not much we can go by. We fall back to the Secretary of Interior's standards. And I looked at the requirements and as mentioned earlier in the backup, I included some of what those standards are. There was really nothing specific to color. I know that we mentioned in our code that they have to be historic colors. But those are for the historic districts. We have to rely on the Secretary of Interior's. Now, how we interpret that, that can be a little bit different. It's not really clear. They don't really give us any direction as far as types of color, but just have to match the architectural style of the home. And this is a local landmark as opposed to a national? This is a local correct landmark only, yes. OK, any other questions? OK, so here are our options as a commission. We we can approve as submitted. We can approve subject to conditions we can deny or continue. Any of those would take a motion and a second for discussion. Do I have a motion? I move that we accept the color palette as submitted. Melody Melody has made the motion. I second. This is Evan. OK, we have a motion and a second, so I will throw it out for discussion. I think they've chosen pleasant colors. I think it's it and like the examples that they show, it's it's nothing outrageous or. Yeah, I agree. It's nothing outrageous. Yeah, as you show, we're very nice. And what did you put in one bright red color so that it made those very dull flat colors look better? The Christmas trees, the other one had this great house lit up at dusk. So, again, you brought the warmth out from the interior light. And in fact, that's what's missing from the color is the work. I'm just saying that that's that's what comes across, that there was a reason that the historic colors are highly recommended, even though it's not part of the historic district. And it's not has nothing to do with pleasant. I mean, I don't care if it's purple, if it's historic, that's not the gauging light. I mean, I don't want to tell people what color to paint their house. I'm just saying if you want to have a historic landmark, you ought to at least try to to match what the suggestions are for them. OK, any other discussion. Wow, we're silent much today. All right, well, let's roll through. We'll call it for a vote. We'll start with Cassandra this time. Katie is out Melody. Evan. Janelle. Mary. Hey, and Roy is yay. So we have one, two, three, four, five, four, one against the motion passes. Thank you very much. Chair, before we move on just wanted to enter for the record that we don't have any online comments nor any callers for this item. Okay, well thank the owners for being here, and it's going to be a beautiful home we look forward to seeing it finished you have any idea when you'll finish it. Um, our thank you first of all for having us and and looking through this for us this is new to us having the historical landmark, and it should be painted by a month from now so December 5 is when we should be wrapping up. Wow, I'm excited. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Okay, you're welcome. We're going to move item E ahead of item D, as we mentioned earlier, item E is co a 20 dash oh oh one eight hold a public meeting and consider a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with 2.9 point to the didn't development code to replace exterior windows at 1823 Belle Avenue. Within the Belle Avenue historic district. The site is located on the southwest corner of Belle Avenue and Woodland Street. And I believe, Ron is our presenter on that one. Yes, thank you. Share my screen real quick. So as mentioned in the introduction, this is for a COA located at 1823 North Bell. This is one of our first COA that I know of, since I've been staff liaison as far as the Bell Avenue historic district. This particular property of course is located in this district. Right there located on the corner of Woodland Street in Belle Avenue, just on the southwest corner of that intersection. The view of the home. That's the front view that is, as you see here from Belle Avenue is described as a mid century ranch type architecture, and it was constructed in 1951. This is a view of the site or the subject home located at Woodland Street. And I just wanted to show that this particular viewpoint because of the windows and how they're mainly located on this side. Now there are also a number of windows on the other side of the home, but it was very difficult to see from a street view. But again, the proposal and the request is to replace the exterior windows, a total of 12 exterior windows. They are described as aluminum frame windows, and they will be replaced with aluminum clad windows for the project. There are a total of five that are currently side by side. They will be replaced with five double side sliders. And there is one that is a solo single hung window, and that will be replaced by a fixed casement. And then the remaining six sliders will be replaced by five sliders, similar in the sizes and also a encased window. The window openings themselves and exterior material will not change. They will just simply be used and replace the window itself in those areas that you see here on the screen. As you can see, the majority of them are the sides of the building on woodland, as well as the property to the south. From that vantage point, there is one window located in the front along Della Avenue. These are just some submitted example of what the applicant has proposed. I will probably need to confirm with the applicant, but again, this is an example of what is being proposed. It was included in the backup or the application that they submitted and included in your backup for you all to look and review. They also submitted this as part of their submittal as well. Understanding that this is part of the Della Avenue Historic District, the staff did look at the architectural standards requirements for that district and in particular windows that is covered under that section of the code. As you can see here, I'm just going to read it for the record. Window openings should not be altered to accommodate replacement windows. Blocking down or blocking in the opening replacement windows should relate to and be appropriate for the age and architectural style of the structure. And then number three, in situations where the original windows remain, every effort should be made to repair such windows rather than replace them outright. Staff did consider these architectural requirements as part of our consideration and analysis, and staff recommends approval of the COA requests again to replace all of the exterior windows located at 1823 Belle Avenue. With that, I'll stand for any questions. And again, I understand that the caller may or may not be on call. Brian is here. So Brian is present. I just saw him on the screen. So if you have any questions for me, be happy to answer. And of course, the applicant is also present and can answer questions. So I know they're going to be aluminum cloud wood. It's going to be the brushed aluminum finish on the exterior. Yes, I had to search long and hard for a vendor that actually had a clear anodized aluminum window. Yeah, it's a premium, but yes, we're very interested in keeping the aluminum look. And we tried very hard to figure out how to do how to save the single hung window, but we can't find one that won't cause the jam or the sash to be much wider than what exists now. So it would increase the amount of aluminum around each window significantly almost double or triple in the case of the single hung windows, where the slider allows us to have a thinner profile to match what exists. Do you have any questions? I'm a bit confused. I had a hard time because I originally had this on myself on it. I'm just confused what's going to actually replace it like a side by side view. I see multi pane windows on the only picture you show. And there was something about having the difference. I'm particularly concerned about that front window what it exactly will look like. It is a mid century modern. I mean, you've got the A-frame, you've got this nice vertical, this horizontal line, and the window has a horizontal. And so I'm a little confused if it's going to go multi-pane. So I don't understand why those were just a sample was thrown at us in a bold new outlook, which always kind of scares me in a historic home. So why didn't the applicant tell me? And I'll ask you. But I mean, saying it's not the same as sending it. If we saw it side by side, I'd probably be really happy right now. I'm not real happy because I can't compare exactly what is going to be there. I'm just approving a hand wave, and that really worries me. Which dash is going? That was not clear. And I, you know, make it keep it simple. Most of us have day jobs, right? Sure. This is all custom windows. They will not be multi-pane. We're trying to simplify that and keep with the original look of the structure. That's really essential to us. Right now there are single hung windows, aluminum windows, that have a cross at the center line of the window, and there's a split rail, the mullion, through the center, which is the most obvious feature from the front view of the house. It looks like two large panels of glass center with the center line down the middle of the aluminum. That's what's most visible from the door or from the side of the street. And so we're trying to replicate that as much as possible with the two with a slider that will have that thin center band and a narrower frame on the outside. John, maybe you could just show me that picture again. That front view. Let me try to pull that up real quick. I know because my cell phone is so small, it makes it really hard. And I wish I could show you a window, but they're all going to have to be custom built so they don't have a picture of the exact window that we'll get. Hopefully they will before they custom build it. We have lots of options within. So, please all can see that. This is the photo from the front along Bell Avenue. The picture didn't, you know, when I looked at that on my little tiny cell phone, that little centerpiece there doesn't show at all. Isn't that interesting? I mean, it was too small for my phone to see. Let me see if I can get a better shot. Yeah, that's a little bit better, but I must say, because it looks so much different on a cell phone. Got it. Okay, any other questions for Ron or for our owner? We are certainly a quiet bunch today. Okay, well, thank you, Ron, and we will move on. The commission has four options as usual, approve is submitted, approve subject to conditions, deny or continue the item. Any of those four would require a motion and a second to move to the discussion. I am open for a motion. I move that we approve. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second, which opens it for discussion. Floor is open. Okay, we have a motion and a second. That's a great question. We typically try to report back to the HLC once the applicant has completed their project. Often we try to do that. We don't have it on an agenda, but certainly we can make that an agenda item so that we have it on our agenda to report back to you all. Okay. Thank you, Ron. I have a question. I don't know if I can see pictures, but right by, after they see before and after. That's a great idea. It's always fascinating. I'm an HGTV lover. I always like seeing things. After the renovation. I was excited about seeing it up on completion. I didn't know if that was something that was put on the agenda for us to know pictures with renderings of it after completion or just submitted for FYI. Thank you for entertaining that question. We'll certainly try to put something on the agenda, maybe under concluding lines. If we have any kind of thing to report, if not, then we'll just say that it will be something that we'll report at our next meeting. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. 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However, the applicant has reached out to the city, me specifically, my department, but also other departments in looking at where they're being proposed in a historic district. I don't think they have one particularly identified yet. However, they are looking at areas within the historic district or where there are existing decorative streetlights, such as the downtown, and they would like to make sure that whatever they are introducing in this area, one gets approved by the city and by the city means that involves the Historic Landmark Commission and other stakeholders that have an important say into what should be incorporated into our city streetscape. The person that brought this request to the city, his name is Brandon Lehaen, and he is actually on the call. And I'm going to see if he's on the call and let him go through his presentation. And again, what we're trying to see and what he's trying to get from the commission is your input. And as we move forward, as they move forward, that is, they hopefully will take your input and present that when they have a location identified for the areas that we described. So Brandon, are you on the call? Monica, do you have Brandon on the call? >> Ron, this is Rachel. He is there. He just needs to unmute himself. >> Hey, Ron, I'm unmuted now. Thank you. >> Okay. Great, Brandon. I'm going to -- I know you're probably -- I don't know if you have the presentation or not the presentation, but the meeting on your screen, but I'm going to show the slide. That shows the image of the proposed poll that you sent me earlier. So that's what's showing right now for the HLC commissioner. So why don't you go ahead and just a little bit introduce yourself and what you're trying to get from this commission. >> Oh, for sure. Well, yeah, my name is Brandon Lehan. Thanks for everybody joining today. I'm helping Verizon bring 5G to the city of Denton. And in doing that, a lot of these were looking at street lot polls, or most certainly street lot poll locations and replacement poll options. We're working with the city and textile for a lot of these locations. But as we're kind of working around the square, we saw that a lot of these existing street lots were being replaced with the more decorative options. And so we're seeing and trying to present options that makes everybody happy. We know we want to bring 5G and get everybody up to speed here and see what -- basically what designs would be approved in this area and what feedback you guys have for the proposed design here. And just kind of go from there, just to get the ball rolling with the discussion, really. But as of now, so the design you're seeing, if I'm seeing correctly, this would be like a stealth design, where in a nutshell, it would have the intent at the top of the poll. And talking with the city, one of their requests they were having was to have it a color green to match the existing polls there and to have the acorn light fixture with the arm upward. And so we were able to provide a design that closely resembled to what the city was requesting. And then just wanted to present it to you guys to see what feedback you have. If this would be a possible option for us to proceed with for the area or the downtown area or just what questions you would have or anything on those lines. But that's my little intro, and I'll turn it over to you guys for any questions or feedback. >> Okay. Well, I'll just open the floor. There is not -- this is not something that requires a motion or approval. It's just a discussion meeting. So just go for it. If I can just provide some clarification. The green was because of the existing green along the square. We know we have some light poles there. However, there are areas within the Oak Hickory Historic District as well as areas around the square where the pedestrian scale lighting is colored black. So I don't think the color per se is a critical input. I know we want to match as closely as possible, especially if it's along the same street. But I think it's more or less the design and what we're looking for. We did want them to find something that matches the acorn lighting that is predominantly around the area, and we wanted that to be reflective of what they're proposing. So this is one of the examples that they provided. And again, wanting to hear from the HLC. >> So in this picture that we're seeing, it looks like there's a smaller pole in the background, and I guess that's kind of an example of like what's our existing light pole? >> No, that's not -- no, those are -- I think those are just to illustrate -- I think it's the same, but for what they're proposing. What we have existing is a single acorn light, not a double acorn light. >> Okay. And then I guess like in what they're proposing as well, like the extra large base is to house your equipment? >> Correct. Yes, ma'am. The base of it would be where the equipment would be housed, that's correct. Yes, ma'am. It would be all enclosed in this stealth structure. So you wouldn't have any additional -- everything would be enclosed in there, correct? >> How tall is that base, like the kind of acorn squash-shaped base thing? Is that about four feet? >> The base itself, roughly around two feet, yes, ma'am. I don't have the specs exactly from me, but for this exact model per se. But the ones we were looking at earlier, the foundations are the base equipment itself was about a two, two and a half foot height there. And the pole itself was roughly at 30 feet, the top of the pole. >> Yeah. Now, like I was just wondering, because like actually the base looks like it's as tall as the stop sign in this particular picture. So like it looks like that really large part was like four to five feet tall. But so the poles are 30 feet, which is really pretty tall compared to like -- where is our standard lights? How high are they, Ron, do you know? >> I think they're up to -- not 30. I would say maybe between 15 to 20. >> I'm guessing about 20. They have one right at my house, but I never thought of that. >> I have a question actually as to -- the height seems a little out of proportion where the light itself is. I think Janelle has the right point is the proportions are certainly kind of wacky. >> Yeah. I think it's just a Photoshop, but still. >> Yeah, it still looks all -- it all looks not right. >> I think this may have been, I mean, looking at the street, the stop sign, that is, it's pretty tall and a pretty wide base. So Brennan, I don't know, I know that this is an illustration that you were sent. There is a -- if you can get a hold of the dimensions, that would be helpful in -- for our discussion. >> Yeah, because what I'm guessing is somebody has Photoshopped this in and made it, like that's probably as tall as 30 feet. 30 feet is actually really pretty high, but like our lights would probably be lower and the base would probably be lower. So I'm not sure if somebody just, like, blew something up and put it on a picture, but it's a little confusing. It's hard to really assess. And also, like, it would be nice to know the locations. Like, where are these actually going to be located on the square and in a residential area? Like, the actual spots that you're choosing to put them would make a difference in how they -- >> Yeah, no, we'll definitely come back to the architectural style and design, but I've got a slide that the applicant -- or not the applicant, but Brennan had provided. So this is, I believe, Brennan, correct me if I'm wrong, the tacks or the pins that are yellow, are those the locations that you're proposing? >> Correct, yes, sir. And those pins, they basically, when working with D&E, they had sent us a list of where their existing street lots were. And so when we actually had people in the field go actually take photos of, like, these preliminary reviews, and they discovered that during that time they were actually being replaced with the more decorative options that are currently being installed there. And so, yeah, it just kind of presented the, I guess, opportunity for us to get something in place that everybody would be more happy with, as opposed to trying to proceed with the integrated poles that just would not match or kind of be out of whack for this area. But to answer your question in short, yeah, the pins there are basically the proposed locations or a general location of where the -- an existing street light was to where it's been replaced with a decorative light now. So it would be something that kind of follows in line for those locations. >> So it looks like that number actually quite on the square. It looks like we have one on each side, one in front of the old building that the window replacement -- >> See that one? >> Yeah, that we talked about recently, one at the church, one across the street from the church, and then one over there. >> Yeah, I think they're replacing them all. In fact, Hickory is going to get a whole bunch of new light poles, I think, with the redesign of Hickory up north of -- west of Carroll. So I think they're going to be putting a whole bunch in as they go down. So it would be nice if they all matched up to the ones, for example, on Oak. They're supposed to lead to the downtown area. And that being the case, I wonder, besides proportionality, one of the things that I've seen in many of the cities that try to look rather trendy and are rather popular and upscale, something like McKinney or Grapevine or other cities, have the little arms on their light poles that you can hang banners and flowers from, something that's quite nice, something that's quite decorative. And given you don't want to put it all over the city like this, something close to downtown that you could put up little signs about, you know, this is the -- you know, whatever festival is coming up, just to advertise it. And there are lights like this all around Denton already. They're kind of ugly silver, but, you know, you could change that to be more historic. And then maybe for spring or summer, you know, be able to put up some flowers that look rather nice. I mean, we have some flower pots on the square, but maybe just on the square use those. And I think that these 5G poles are just 5G poles. They'll be different than the other lights that they're putting up. Like, those are pretty -- I like the ones with the flower baskets on them. But I think that, like, looking at the map of where these are located, these are just specific that Verizon's putting in for the city. They're not going to do the rest of the lights that the city are putting in. So they're just trying to match these to kind of look like what the city is putting in. But what would they look like if they didn't try to match? I'm just asking -- these are just questions. Like, if -- because the locations that you were showing on that map, they're really not in the heart of downtown or -- Well, some of them aren't in the heart of the historic district. They have hickory and oak on there, so it does matter if they would be talking to us again. Yeah, no, it does. I'm kind of curious, like, where you put them in other places, are they just like a black pole with a box, a square box at the base? Similar to -- so an example up now, it would be similar to that design, except it would have a eight-foot light arm near the top of the pole. Oh, just a mark. Yes, ma'am, it would be a metallic silver in color, and the foundation would be a little less -- or the base would be a little less decorative. It's more of a -- kind of more of a cylinder instead of like the kind of flouted or just kind of beveled bottom there. Have you put any of these up anywhere else? Just out of curiosity. This design, I'm not 100% sure we could take it back to Verizon, but this was one of the photos that they had for one of the -- I guess their -- what would you call it? The mock-ups of the Insta are basically like a photo simulation for what it would like installed. I can go back and see if they have any that have actually been like in the field installed to give you a better up close -- I guess picture of what it would look like or the after, and then get some more questions about the proportions and foundation for us. Yeah, that would be helpful. I would want to see pictures of this pole right next to one that exists now so I can see how different it really is. And -- because, you know, if there was even a car parked there next to it, it would give you some sense of how big that is. But if you could do a diagram with this pole and a current pole, then, you know, I think it would seem a little easier. And my question is on a lot of these, why aren't these antennas on the building roofs? It's a different -- it's more of a macro project, so without getting too in the weeds to it. They work hand-in-hand. This will offload a lot of the service going -- like the big macro rooftop sites. Those are like kind of a bigger service area. These are more of a smaller service area and help offload that, creating more of a network, so to say, opposed to like big coverage areas. But yeah, they do work hand-in-hand, so there may actually be some other projects going on for the rooftop locations as well. So my question -- maybe it's for Ron. I'm not sure if it's Ron or Ben. So are we going to have like presentations like this for people other than Verizon? How are we going to accommodate all of the providers, the cell 5G providers? Certainly Verizon isn't the only one. Are we all going to go in one same tower, or are there going to be lots of these going around? My -- I don't have a 100% answer to that, Commissioner Anderson. My understanding is that we want to co-locate as many as possible and to not introduce as many of this. So I think being Verizon being the first, I think this is going to be just as located as -- you know, less clutter as possible. And that's the hope. I know that every application that gets submitted to the city is reviewed, and there are site inspections to make sure that that is achieved. Now, this being close to downtown and potentially close to any historic district or within historic districts, we're starting to make sure that we get input from the historic districts and the commission as part of this effort. What I would like -- and I was telling Brennan when he was talking to me was, you know, the architectural -- is it -- obviously proportionality -- proportion is important, but also the architectural to match what is out there now is also important. And so that's why we're here. And we obviously -- our goal is to limit the amount of these in the area as much as possible. Okay, do we have any other questions for Ron or our presenter? Ron, is it -- what department in the city? Is it the parks or is it public works that it's putting in the new light poles? Not these, but the -- The city. I think it's streets. So it's a combination of a number of different departments. It's not just one department being a city installed lights. Yeah. It would be great to see the ones we're putting in and then kind of -- like Roy was saying, it would be good to compare the real ones that we're getting side by side, like just even an architectural elevation where we could really see the dimensions. Right. I think -- Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. Sorry, Brennan. I'm just going to go through my list real quick. A proportional analysis, I guess, to show what that proposed pole is compared to an existing light. Two is to provide dimensions so that we have a better idea of how dimension this is, not only height but also the base and what that circumference is or diameter is. And then last is any existing poles that are already installed, really installed, not a photo generated visual as what's shown here. If that is something that the applicant can present, we may be able to -- we will be able to bring it back to the commission for further discussion. And if there's anything else you would like to see, please let us know so that we can provide that for our next discussion. I would sort of like to see a map of where the street lights are already scheduled to be replaced, sort of here's where what we have now is and what they're going to look like and here are how many in the placement of these. Does it be nice if there were some sort of symmetry involved somehow? Brennan, can you talk a little bit about how you locate these poles? Is it based off of distance from one another and how is that determined? Exactly, yes, sir. So it's basically a very -- without getting too deep into the weeds of the RF engineering, but they have what they call polygons set up to basically establish their optimal service for the area. And so in RF engineers, here's the center of our polygon. We're looking for a replacement pole within X amount of feet of this, and that's basically what we do is present options to them. And we're working with EME, we were originally targeting the street light replacements as our kind of path of leaf resistance and lowest hanging fruit and then we'll look to more of a raw land build for any new sites from there. But in short, yeah, it's basically RF polygons and that are basically crafted to meet his desired service outputs for the area, and that's where we set there. I hope that answers your question clearly enough, but I can kind of go into more detail if not without getting too crazy. Brennan, do you have -- do you know where our historic districts are located? Do you have any in the plans in your future? I know I have another exhibit that shows where one is proposed within the Oak Creek Historic District, but it's not necessarily in the district, it's just adjacent to. I was just wondering if you knew where you guys are thinking of in the future within the historic district or districts? As of now, the previous snapshot of just those locations, I believe like the four or five locations in that snapshot or aerial view, was currently what we have for the historic district. That way I do have a KMZ that the city did provide that overlays their historic zones, and it was really just those and then the ones, it was like City Notes 5, I believe, just off memory that was kind of a little further away. I think it was on East Oak Street or -- Oak Street anyway. But basically that's how it got started. We were proposing the location for that one. We kind of had a hands-off the downtown area until we really kind of had a path forward with this. And then talking with the city, we were informed that that location also need to be a historic design. And so we kind of opened the door for maybe a little bit more of this conversation instead of maybe putting these on the back burner and then trying to work for design that covers and is kind of complete throughout without changing. Well, having too much wonky, like kind of keep a consistent flow with everything in the city there, the historic district, I should say. The reason I was asking is because obviously the next meeting for the HLC is -- we have one in December. We may not have one. It may roll back to January. So just wanted to know your schedule and obviously we want to make sure we get input from the commission before anything is submitted and reviewed. Oh, no, we have not. We're definitely clearing this through all the appropriate parties and commissions and make sure everybody's on board and everybody's happy with the designs being presented before we file for any right-of-way permits or anything like that. But with the rest of the city, we are going through the right-of-way and replacing just the standard D&E light poles with the approved design there. But for the historic purposes, it's really just those two aerial views for now. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Any other questions or comments? No, I don't hear any. So if we could have a motion to adjourn. Mary is muted, but I can -- And I move to adjourn. I'm ready to go. All those in favor, just raise your hand and wave. That's enough. We stand adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you.