Sep 14, 2020 Parks, Recreation and Beautification Board on 2020-09-14 12:30 PM

Good afternoon. It is 1233 and I would like to welcome you all to the September 14th Parks Board meeting. I am Frances Punch, the chair for the Parks Board. Today we have two board member excused absences. Do we have any members from the public? No ma'am, there are no members of the public wishing to speak. Thank you so much for that information. The first item for consideration is approval of the minutes for the August 17th meeting. Any questions/concerns? I see no questions or concerns. I need a motion for approval. I have a motion from David Shook. I need a second please. Second. A second from Alana Presley Taylor. Thank you so much. All in favor? All members are voting. Anyone opposed? No one opposed. The minutes are approved. The second item, we are going to hear from the Parks Foundation and going to look at the agreement with the Parks Foundation to allow the Parks Foundation to raise funds on behalf of the Parks and Recs Department. Frances, Gary Pack and Parks and Recreation. Just want to kind of introduce the item. Brooke Moore obviously is here to provide you the presentation in any detail. This is the third year that we have gone through this specific kind of process with the Park Foundation in the agreement. A little bit different this year. We typically do the presentation during budget, but with COVID our budget presentations were very short and quick, so this was delayed until a little bit later in the process. We do have the funding in the current budget as it's being considered, and obviously that could change up into the last minute, but wanted to have the Park Foundation provide an update, kind of what's going on over the past 12 months. Obviously the last six months have been very challenging for everybody. And then kind of what the plan or the approach is as we hopefully head into next fiscal year with more positive environment. So Brooke, stage is yours and I'll go ahead and bring the presentation up. Awesome, thank you. If you just want to tell me when to change, we'll change it for you. You got it. So thank you all so much for having me here and having me each month. It's nice having the inside scoop and making sure we are aligned properly and keeping up to date with one another, we'll jump right in. No worries, you're good. Fabulous, thank you. So we'll just jump right in and go to the next slide and let you guys know that in August 2019, the Denton Parks Foundation, we did meet for a retreat and we developed a new mission and vision. So that really reflected and created to ensure that the organization could continue to grow and effectively serve the Denton Parks and Recreation Department for decades to come. So our new mission really is to engage the Denton community to enhance the mission of the Denton Parks and Recreation Department to unite, grow and play. And our vision is to unite people of our parks and play through investments, advocacy, volunteers and resulting in accessibility and quality life for all residents. Next slide please. So how do we do this is always the next question, right? During 2019 and 2020, the Denton Parks Foundation invested over $40,000 in Parks and People. We invested in the Canine Campaign. That was roughly a little over $25,000. Parks and Play updates, you'll see that we helped to replace a slide and spinner replacement as well as the vandalism cleanup and resurfacing at Eureka 2. We were able to provide 81 scholarships and one nonprofit grant to ensure that the individuals that were being served through the nonprofit had access to recreational activities at the shelter for Denton County Friends of the Family. We also were able to add 11 benches at the dog park and then the dog park shade structure. And we did this through a number of events. Now let's all be real. We can do the math really quickly and realize that we did not come out on top. Your investment of $76,500 and your return was negative $35,900.46. That's a hard pill to swallow as the person who's doing the job. However, we can answer the question of why was there a loss? Short answer, COVID. We had a lot of new events coming up and we were really excited. Some of them did well. Like Galentine's Day, we raised about $4,000. It was our first go round, but we were able to develop relationships with individuals that I'm sure moving forward, we will be able to build those relationships and get more donations and donors. We had to kind of change up gears this year with the home hop egg drop. We had to get creative. Originally, that was going to be the adult egg hunt and be able to bring in a lot more money. However, we ended up getting stuck with a bunch of eggs and we just got creative on how we could spread the joy and still raise some funds. And then I just wanted to give you guys an update. Splish splash doggy bash. We would have had that this year. Actually, that would have probably been last Saturday. However, due to COVID, we were not able to do that. And last year we made about $4,000 with that as well. Next slide, please. Thank you. So knowing that we didn't make our numbers this year still lets us know that there's still a need. And we didn't sit quietly and not do anything. In fact, we were in the process of securing an endowment to support equitable access to parks and recreational services. We also have an additional $18,000 readily available for scholarship funding in the coming year or whenever these services are available to individuals. Denton Parks Foundation will continue its efforts to ensure children and individuals have depart services no matter their ability to pay. And recognizing moving forward, there's going to be even more need for this as people are starting to struggle to make ends meet while still trying to maintain a healthy and quality life. Next slide, please. So what did we do if we weren't able to raise funds? We spent a lot of time advocating for parks. We were being a voice for parks and advocating to help make parks better for all. So what did that look like? We promoted the 10-minute walk to a safe and quality park. We promoted people using their outside voice for the bond election and attending input meetings. We also did two parks and play campaigns, which included essentially me going to the park every single day during the month of February and May and encouraging other people to do so and sharing their stories and experiences. How is that advocacy, you might ask? It was encouraging people to get outside again, go to their parks, but also give them really creative ideas on what they can do at the park. And we got a lot of feedback on that. And then finally, also providing COVID updates and tips on all things park, parks that can include, you know, hey, how do you still go and have a picnic at the park? What's the safest way to do that? And so we really encouraged people to find new ways to engage with parks and play. Next slide. So in addition to our investments directly to the city, one of our areas of impact for the Denton Parks Foundation is providing 501(c)(3) tax exempt status and services to community groups as a fiscal sponsor and partner. These relationships and partners result in associations and committees being able to make park and public space projects happen in Denton. So what does that look like? Juneteenth celebration. It exists to promote, educate and celebrate the history of Juneteenth as well as build community unity. And they do that using our fiscal sponsorship and our nonprofit status to be able to get grant funding and sponsorships and in-kind donations. Similarly, Cinco de Mayo festival does the same thing and provides a spirit of celebration and friendship and sharing, showcasing rich traditions, entertainment, art exhibits and food for Hispanic culture in a free family event. And then two other areas that we continue to support and have done so for a while include the Senior Center Advisory Council, which is a group of seniors dedicated to helping make the senior center even better. And then the Denton Area Tennis Association, who has a mission to promote the game of tennis in the city of Denton. So this is really an indirect way in which we are advocating for more people to have access to park and play through different associations that don't force them to have to also have a board of directors and compete for money instead we are supporting one another. Next slide, please. And then our final area of impact really is our volunteerism. And we're trying to engage people to get out into the parks, play, but also try to make a difference. During COVID, it was a little more difficult to get people out there. And so we just kind of kept with the weekly 10 on Tuesday, and we continue to promote 10 on Tuesday and encouraging people to go out there. We also did dig in coordinate volunteering opportunities at the parks. There's our own Tim Smith there mulching up a tree. And we hope to continue to do that in the coming year working alongside some of Gary's new staff additions. Next slide, please. So really our top three areas are investing our resources clearly misspelled into depart to win the NRP a and traps gold medals. Originally, we had a goal of doing that by 2025. And right now I'm holding off on putting a number to that because y'all this is just wild times, but it still remains that our vision and our goals are going to be the same. We're still going to advocate 100% accessibility to equitable depart parks and facilities and provide access to all individuals who qualify for recreational scholarships. Ideally, we would like to be able to provide that we can only do that if we are able to continue to fundraise for the dental parks foundation. Next slide, please. Moving forward, here are some of the ideas that we hope as COVID dissipates and we get back to play that we still have more opportunities to do that. We hope to be able to still provide splish splash doggy bash next year, the adult egg scramble in 2021, a park play library looking at funding that through grant support return to recess and opportunity to engage people, adults specifically to have fun and remind people why it's important to be outside. And then of course, the canine campaign and Galentine's and finally a new one. Parks are art and really developing a designated donor fund for art in the parks. It's going to be starting with the women's interracial fellowship project. Next slide, please. So truly we believe that when a community unites, parks get better and we can only do that when we are united with the city. Together we can work to meet the needs and expectations of our community and filling in that gap where it exists to create a quality life for all dent residents. And that's all I got for you, Gary. The thank you is one of those weird fonts that it just didn't transfer very well, but thank you. We've enjoyed the past year. We truly are hoping to look forward to another year ahead as partners with you all. And I'm moving in for any questions. I have a couple of questions. You mentioned going out being an advocate for the parks and rec department. Can you share with us some parks that you visited? Absolutely. And so I recently went to Mack Park. I went to both of the parks there, divided in half by McKinney Street and posted a video specifically about that experience. Carl Young, I visited a couple of different times, McKenna Park, South Lakes, North Lakes, of course, Avondale and Nettie Schultz because they are right next to my house and that's the easiest one to go to. So it's been an adventure to try to go out and see other parks. I actually just recently, what's the one off of? It's over by Mack. Gary, do you know what I'm talking about? Milam. What is it? Milam. Yes. I just recently visited that one and thoroughly enjoyed it. And we'll definitely be going back to it. I like to take my daughter and just check out different locations. Thank you for that information. Also, the second question is we had a conversation shortly or had a couple of statements about the need for additional diversity. But you did mention a couple when you in your presentation, can you elaborate on what other ways that you're going to incorporate diversity? Absolutely. So right now, our major focus is if we are going to be a diverse organization, we have to start with ourselves. And so I reached out to our board and was very honest with them, Frances, and said, if you looked at our Facebook, we are a very white organization, 100%. If I looked at it, I would assume it was that way as well. And largely because that is who follows us. But also for people to see themselves in what we do, we need to look like everybody. So it starts with us by including and making sure that our board is more diverse. Right now we are looking at we actually have ethnically and racially, we have a variety of members on our board. The thing that we don't have is their location. I recently kind of just did an evaluation of our board traits and looked to see what districts that they all live in. We do not have equal representation across all districts. And so that was very eye opening to our president and our exec team. And so we're looking at recruiting individuals that will make sure cover all spectrums there. And then kind of going back to what you were saying, making sure our marketing and things along those lines reflect not just white women faces. Thank you, Ruth. Thank you for being so candid. I have a question for Ms. Taylor. Hi, actually, my question goes right along with what Francis was just asking about. I was kind of wondering like how you choose your board members and like what the criteria is for them to be on the board. And then also do you have any youth advocates that work with your board to tell you what they want? Oh, I love that last part. No. I literally just talked to strangers at the park and asked them what they like or don't like, take it back to the board and tell them, hey, I met two kids at Mellon Park and let me tell you their thoughts. And so truly, that's how they get that information. But I love that idea. And our board of directors, we have a governance committee that looks at recruiting. And so that's truly where it starts. And the governance committee is looking at the skills that we have, the gaps of the skills that we have, race, gender, all those different identities to make sure that when we're recruiting, we're recruiting in the right areas, but also that passion point, right? And so we're also looking for people who have volunteered with us or have shown somehow that they're interested in the parks. And then we're going to reach out to them. It's as opposed to a blanket recruitment. It's kind of individually recruiting and making sure that because it costs money, right, to manage them, make sure it's a good investment of our time. And we do have expectations. And so all board members receive those expectations prior to joining, including making sure that they don't have a conflict of interest and understanding kind of the time commitment of their time, treasure, and talent. Are there any income restrictions with being on the board? Do they have to make like minimum donations every year? There is a minimum donation, and it's just you have to donate. And that truly, you're going to see that across any nonprofit board. And I'll say from working in the nonprofit sector for over 10 years, it's an expectation. Because if you're going to ask other people to donate, you better put your mouth where your wallet is, as well as when applying for grants, it's an important notice. So we don't say that you have to give a large dollar amount, but a dollar amount that is a big deal to you, right? A true investment. Okay. I see Mr. Shook. Yes, strictly from the agreement itself, I saw, I think, two places where there were edits and one was simply getting rid of an extra space and one was updating the date for this year. Were there any other changes to the agreement versus last year that I might have missed? No, that was just, I think we had missed a word on that. So we provided the markup so you can see what the changes we made. So it's easier for you guys to go through it each year. And thank you for that, by the way. But especially with COVID, I mean, it really put a damper on a lot of the planning efforts that the Brook and the Park Foundation has been working on and trying to build off of. So it really is almost like a punt year for those types of activities, unfortunately, and we look forward to getting those ramped back up. But yeah, no major changes whatsoever. Okay. And Brooke, I'd like you to just prevent COVID next year, please. Thank you. You know, like, I got to be honest with y'all. This year, I did say it came out of my mouth. I will never homeschool. And let me tell you, you should never say never, and I should know better by now. And I do kind of take the full blunt of all of this. I'm really sorry. It's your fault. Clearly. So Gary, do you need a vote for us for her for the Parks Foundation to continue to raise funds or? Yeah, I think we have James had his hand up for a question real quick. Sorry, my apologies. Mr. Amrick. No, just actually a suggestion. I love Lana was an excellent suggestion about the kids having a kid a youth group kind of thing input. And just from previous experience, we used to actually have a kid board, or not really didn't call the board, it was kind of like a group of kids. And they would have their own group, and they would do things at parks. And then somebody to go to the board. So that was that worked out real well, they they would like their own person, but that way you have an enthusiastic group that's using the parks. And from that group, then you can get somebody it really worked really well. And also you get a lot of great input from them. I mean, that's, you know, I like to think I think like a kid, but the kids, they can think better than a kid than I can. Okay. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you. Gary, did you have your hand? Yes, just to add to James comment, we do have a teen advisory council that works through the Civic Center. So we definitely could hook them up with with Brooke. Now they're they're more teens and high school kids. They might be another demographic of trying to get some elementary or middle school kids in the mix too. Since usually those are the guys using the playgrounds and more of the activities. But that's definitely a connection we could provide to the Park Foundation as well. And I will say we did talk about doing a group and I think I presented this to you all of my buddies, or I think we landed on another named Parksters of engaging kids out at the park each weekend and then COVID hit. So, you know, hopefully when we're back out at the park playing face to face, that would be a good group to engage and then engage them in an advisory kind of way. I love that idea. Thank you all. So the question is, it's not clear if this is an action item, do you need us to vote for her to continue to raise funds on behalf of the parks and rec board? So what what Brooke is doing is providing a kind of a summary of what was going on last year this past year and then she also has an annual plan that what she wants to do moving forward. But what we'd like from you from the park board is a recommendation to move forward with City Council and do this same presentation to City Council and get any feedback from them. See if they're interested in moving forward. And if they are, then we would go to Council at the first meeting in October with ratification of the agreement. And then that would be executed for fiscal year 2021. So to be clear, we're not voting on the agreement itself. It's just basically whether or not we want to move forward it. Well, yes, it is the agreement that's that's attached to the item as well. Can you bring that up, Gary, sure. Thank you. Sure. I have to get it from another computer. So hang on one second. While he's doing that, did anybody based on the pre reading? Do you have any questions about the agreement other than the ones that David brought up? Gary may be a meat point. You may not. Okay. Okay. So may I have a motion for the parks foundation to raise funds on behalf of the Parks and Recreation Department and for the Parks and Recreation Department to move forward to City Council? All motion. Motion. Alana Taylor, second. All second. James Emmerich, all in favor? Anyone opposed? The ayes have it. Eddie, did you get that vote? Oh, I forgot we're video. Okay, next item. Let's see. We're going to give staff input regarding the potential land consideration for future park plan. I'm going to provide you two bits of information. Maybe. These are all labeled the same, so I have to click on each one. Sorry. Same one keeps coming up. Not sure what's going on there. Okay, here we go. So I think it was two months ago. Can everybody see the presentation? No, no. It's saying screen sharing has failed. Hang on one second. That's new. Uh-oh. This won't be a good presentation if you can't see it. Well, I think we all understand technology. Is it the same stuff we have in the packet? That's the trails one. That specific file doesn't want to open. I think I got it to work now. Okay, there it is. As soon as IT walks in the room, it works. They're magic. Okay, so two months ago, park board had added asked about an update in regards to parkland acquisition. We had it ready to go for last month and we're going to do it under closed session because there are some sensitive properties on there that's not necessarily open for general public consumption at this point in time. So we had to pull it. We did go to council last month and gave them a presentation and definitely wanted to follow back up with park board as well and get some feedback. We did take out the more sensitive properties that are still not for public consumption or discussion at this point in time and we'll provide that to you in the future. So going back to the 10 minute walk that actually had Brook had mentioned earlier, when we presented that to council in early 2019, we selected these specific goals that we're going to work on and that was to develop a measurement strategy with properties and help improve our 10 minute walk capabilities, looking at railroad or utility land ownership that an easements or property that may be underutilized that we could use that's already in city inventory, working with private developers, developers through our 915 916 ordinance, which we continue to do that. Educational providers, DISD or local colleges, and we are having ongoing discussions with a couple of them as well. HOAs, we really haven't worked much in that area at this point in time. Underutilized city property, DME, or even more specifically our utilities department as a whole, we've identified a few properties, which I'll share with you as we kind of go through the slide. And then just identifying potential land that we may want to consider and purchase. So those ultimate goals, we're in the kind of the last stages of working through that process and that's an official adoption and implementation of the parks and trails master plan. While we're working on that, we did take a pause when Glenn left, we were doing that internally, and then COVID hit as well. So we are actually evaluating this week a consultant to negotiate a contract to get them to come on board and help us finish that project. That's the really next step, but we weren't waiting for the master plan to be adopted. We continue to move forward on looking for land because there is so much development activity in the community we didn't want to miss out because really the best time to buy that property was 20 years ago. So the next best time is today. So we didn't have a process in place on how to determine what property was, you know, how to prioritize it. Whether it's park board or city council or just residents would reach out to us and say, Hey, there's, there's a property in my neighborhood. I think it's a really a good piece of property. Can you guys take a look at purchasing it? And we were getting that from various, various angles. But we wanted to take more of a strategic approach to it. The 10 minute walk obviously, obviously is our first test to see where we may need to buy land to improve that, that capacity for residents to have access to, to green space. So that's our first measuring stick. But then we also look at other things where it's, if it's free, if that's an opportunity to connect to other assets next to a school next to another city park next to a potential trail are all different ways that we look at property. Now I gray scaled out the property list just because some of the property on here were those properties that they're a little more sensitive. But we go through, we created an evaluation score for each parcel and there's about 15 or so questions and there's a scoring process that you can have, whether it's one to five or one to 10, whatever that medium is. And it's not, it's not rocket science. Can it be improved? Absolutely. But we didn't have anything. So we thought this was the best direction. And then we looked at things from prioritization from A, B, and C, if it was in the top one third percentile of the properties. Then we looked at DCAD value and then the DCAD value by acreage, the overall acreage. And then we ranked them in the top 10 or by category. And that's what these green cells are. The percentage of tree canopy, cause tree canopy is important to us as a whole. And what percentage of that tree canopy or acreage of that parcel is covered with, with trees and realistically what kind of trees they are too is also evaluated. Then just kind of a staff input. If we felt it was a high priority based on everything that's going on in the organization, we added council districts this year so we could see how that spread out across the city. And then whether it's a natural area or preserve, if we have 9, 15, 16 money, which is our land acquisition. And realistically, if it was a quick win, something that we could accomplish fairly quickly. And then also is it helping achieve the 10 minute walk. So we looked at each one of these things in the top ones, we reshuffle them on the top 10 or so, and then highlight them. And then we literally would just count the green cells going across and that's how we got to the top priority of 8, 7, 6 all the way down the line. So that's how we would go through that process and adjust our scores. From a city, city park master plan process, the parks in yellow, so this is North Lakes, this is Denia, and this is South Lakes. Proposed park, this is Clear Creek, so that's now in the park system. So that's a city park as well. And then we have some planned parks, which are this is the mountain bike trail on Hartley. This is the Mills property that we purchased last year. This is Southwest Park property that we're going through the planning process on. And then these two blue acorns over here are approximate locations of city parks that have been agreed upon with the Hunter Ranch and Coal Ranch properties. And then these two orange ones are just areas if we wanted to try to get a park in this area or in the Hills of Denton area that's planned on the north side in the future, just to kind of give us a little bit of a holistic spreading out our city park opportunities for the community. And those are 50 acres or more. So jump through the properties, Razor Ranch, we do have a presentation on this today as well. But we'll just kind of touch on this is just about 10 acres of property just off of university. We had a community meeting in 2019. And you know, we've been moving forward on this ever since we've been waiting on the developer to give us feedback on the agreement since last November. That's been delayed. And we're anxiously awaiting that so we can take it to city council and get that approved. But they are basically substantially completed. You could see everything's been been turfed and things are growing in. This was probably about a month or so ago. During the extreme heat of the summer, we do have trails they have not put in all the benches, there's some signage, some lighting that have to go in and some some stage dark shade structures and some minor fitness equipment that will be put in as well along the trail. Off of that one, Gary, can I ask a question? Sure. So that entryway that in the top picture, the very bottom of your photo, I seem to remember that there were going to be like some sort of walls that you would go between there that had some I don't remember exactly the description but it was going to be some sort of artwork and and description of the area and whatnot. Has that not has that changed? Yes, so they just they tapered it down. So there wasn't a quick drop off there. There is going to be some interpretive signage in the park. But those walls aren't going to be there. Okay, that was a budget, I think a budget thing that they they cut out. They are they were intended and required to give a roughly about $300,000 through our ordinance. They've put in a little over a million dollars as of right now. I haven't seen the final numbers, but they're well past the required amount for the park development. Okay. Well, it's a shame. That was kind of a neat feature, but I understand. And then the acorn just gives you an idea of where that property is. Canopy trails, this is a development that that's still in the works. It's not it hasn't been approved. They've done some preliminary approval down I think on the south side over in the southeast corner. So here's Woodrow and Shady Oaks and then 288 is over here on the on the east side. There's roughly five miles of trails that are proposed in this property and about 80 acres that would be dedicated to parkland. There's quite a bit of treed area that is in the floodplain. There would be trails in the floodplain that we'd have to work through, you know, various flooding when we do get a lot of rain. But this property would also connect to Mack Park on the north side and then it would be part of the Pecan Creek linear trail going east to west within the within the property itself. And that gives you a sense of where that property is. You can see how green it is around there with all the trees. Endeavor Energy. So Lake Forest Park, the property immediately south of Lake Forest. This is Cross Timbers North just on the west side of this property. If you're walking through the woods, you would really never know that you're going from city property on the private property. To my knowledge, there has never been any any issues with the energy company of people utilizing those trails. But it's very thick forest and a great place to go out and hike. We recently just on the north side of this square removed a beehive this earlier this summer that was in a dead tree. So that was kind of an interesting we had to go out and try to track it down and find it. But we reached out to this company last year and they were concerned about if they did sell it that the gas well potentially would be impacted. So we are reaching out to them again to see if a lease would be an option. So that way we would have you know kind of everything in order in regards to public access and then with an option to purchase if they ever did decide to to sell the property we would be first in line. Forest Ardenia. This is something that we've been working on all summer with the development and development services. It's still an ongoing project. They're working through their approval process with with city council and development services. But our role was to really identify how we could utilize this property to benefit our park system and if there were other opportunities to try to acquire some additional tree areas. What you see right now in this rough air I guess amoeba type of thing is the tree area which is in this kind of lime green and then the aqua colored in the blues are the flood plain. So as as of right now they have proposed about 51 acres being dedicated to the city that would be this tree area in the the flood plain. We have tentatively planned a trail that would come off of Roselon and meander through the creek area and up on the parvin that would connect over to the school and to Dena and then we've also looked at putting a trail possibly through the southern side of the elementary school that could connect the neighborhood straight into Dena and right onto the trail. So we're having discussions with the ISD about that as well. Any question? Yes sir. Yeah Gary, is that 50 year what big 500 year floodplain what kind of what size floodplain? It's a 100 year floodplain. Yeah 100. 100 okay. Thanks for my question. You're welcome. So this would be donated this is something we would have to purchase well above what they're required to. I think they're requirement was around five acres so it's about 45 46 acres above what they're required to do. Excuse me Gary can you explain the difference between a 100 euro and a 50 euro floodplain? So there's there's you know what a typical 100 year flood and where that would be and then a 500 year flood obviously something that doesn't happen as often. I don't know where that 500 year floodplain is. I'd have to go back and provide the board a follow up in regards to where that area is. Gary, FEMA doesn't normally dedicate exactly where the 500 year floodplain is and they only designate up to a 100 year floodplain and then they don't designate out of that but depending on the rain intensity that we get it's normally looked at a five year, 10 year, 25, 50 and 100 year. Okay there you go. What does that mean that it will flood for that amount of time? No it's the intensity of the amount of rain we get so as five year we typically get that amount of rain at one time every five years, every 10 years, every 25 years and so on and so forth. 25 year event. Yeah thank you so much. You're welcome. Country Club Terrace we've been talking to to this developer for roughly probably a year and a half, two years. This is Hickory Creek Road where the eventually will be straightened out and this will be vacated that we could technically use the the old roadbed for future trail. So this is roughly 34 acres of open space this is a new development that's that's going through the approval process for construction and our idea for this would be either we could reforest it it could be a combination of restoration of a prairie or or wildflowers or a combination of all the above but it's definitely a place where we could have some natural trails through here as well for people to enjoy while they're walking on the linear park and this is being this is being donated as well. What where's the railroad? I can't I don't see the railroad. So the railroad is right here. Here let me go that's not going to help. So the railroad is on the eastern edge Hickory Creek is down on the southern side and then it meanders up here and it joins in the Country Club right here. Okay. Actually this section the Country Club is going to be moved south and it's going to turn into Brush Creek as it goes further west and tie into 35. Okay. Thank you. I mentioned earlier with Canopy Trails the Pecan Creek Trail and and I can share a spreadsheet with you as well. We have a few areas that our trail system that will talk to you when we get to that point in that presentation with Dr. Walker but the Pecan Creek Trail basically follows Pecan Creek from downtown or the DCTA Trail through Fred Moore through some city property into Carl Young and then through the county property here and then this is where MKOC is located on Woodrow. So we're working on getting an agreement with the Denton County so we could put a trail through their property. There's already a kind of a cattle path through there right now where you see people walk if you drive by it that would roughly be where we'd want to put the concrete. There's an existing utility easement that goes through that area of the property already. Sage Brook. So just to give you some orientation Bonnie Bray is over here on the right side of your screen. Here's the railroad. This is the future Brush Creek that we just mentioned. Hickory Creek would be over here to the east of 377 and Southwest Park is on the north side immediately right here where you could see the trees. This has been going through the development process as well. This was recently annexed into the city. They're proposing to put a trail down the median of this kind of boulevard just a little bit of a different type of trail for the park system connecting the entire neighborhood to Southwest Park as well as there's about 15 acres of open space down here in the I guess the southwest corner of the property that we would keep open for open space or for future trees as well. That's that's being provided dedicated to the city through our 915-16 ordinance as well. Gary can I ask you a quick question about the Pecan Creek and that trail is there do you expect that there will be any lighting along that trail? It's very well covered. So we are actually we just got a CDBG grant for lighting at Carl Young. We had a resident request for more lighting at that park. That trail kind of follows the western and the southern edge of the park so it's a little dark out there. So we're going to be putting those lights in next year. Eventually there could be lights in select areas. We may not look at the entire trail itself but definitely where we have some some dark spots we definitely would want to look at that as we go through the planning process. Okay thank you. So in summary so this is two really two categories our ordinance and our donation category over here are properties that are going to be dedicated to the city or just an outright donation down the road. Now obviously these aren't all 100% sure going to happen they could fall apart but these are the projects are working on so the ones that I'd say not public knowledge we just didn't want to release the name and location of that property. It's something that we're still working on but you can see as a whole through ordinance in the donation process we have about 740 acres that we're working on. Some of these have already been checkboxed so Cole and Hunter Ranch are already dedicated by ordinance and just for future planning it'll be done you know as that development moves forward. Carnegie Ridge property which has been completed and then the conservation easement on Pilot Knob we're in the process of getting that all approved and and dedicated as an official conservation easement over off of 35. Then some land that we're looking at purchasing or leasing a couple of these obviously we haven't divulged yet to the general public. In 2017 the city was looking at some property over off of Audra we had three parcels that we've been looking at one is a DME parcel we're having discussions with finance and DME to see if they could actually lease that to us in regards to how it purchased how it was purchased with bond money it may have specific attachments to it where we cannot do that. And then we've also negotiated two properties with the city utilities ourselves that would be Hartley Field which is a underutilized wastewater property and then Pecan Creek there's some extra property on the I guess would be the north and east side of Pecan Creek of about 233 acres that we could put our trail through. So we've been working on those over the past year so that's you know 430 acres of parkland in those two itself and then we purchased the Mills property. So that's another 13 acres so that's 2000 acres of land that we're working on in various capacities right now and we have that five million dollars that hasn't even been provided to us yet from the 2019 bond program as well. So we're trying to get those parcels lined up and in the queue so when that money is provided to the department we'll be ready to go. Just some some quick here this is the Cole and Hunter Ranch properties that were approved. The conservation easement are the is the blue areas here in regards to what we what will be preserved based on the requirements of the DDC. This is the water property water utilities property off of Hartley Field. Hartley Field is down here on the bottom of the screen. Oh sorry. Clear Creek is off here to your right off to the right side of the screen. They are going to use some of this property for a future lift station so there's about 30 acres that that's set aside there but this area in purple we're actually working with some local bikers and actually Dr. Walker and UNT to lay out a future mountain bike trail that we'd like to build out there with a community build at some point in time. And then this property in this in this yellow amoeba here is the property that we've leased on the north side north and east side of Pecan Creek for that future linear trail that would take us over to the lake. And then the Mills property which you're familiar with and Carnegie Ridge and that's it. So that's that's a quick synopsis of everything in regards to what's going on in from a land acquisition standpoint. Welcome to entertain any questions comments thoughts that you may have if there's another direction that you feel we need to head definitely open to that if there's some properties that you would like us to look at we could definitely go out and check them out and then put them through our evaluation process and then recalculate everything to see where that would fit on our priorities. Just because it scores low doesn't mean it might not be a property that we're not going to look at either. So there's a lot of variables that we look at when we're trying to figure out if it's a good fit for the park system. But if you can see the areas that aren't blue on this map that's our 10 minute walk so those are the areas that we are trying to keep a higher priority in regards to finding future park space especially where there's a dense area of our community. Gary can you take this down for a minute for questions. Yes ma'am. Questions concerns comments I have a question. So I noticed that you're putting trails in in all these different areas and they're spread out well. Is there a plan to connect all those trails? Great question and you're setting up the the tee for us for the golf ball for our next presentation on our trails which we'll we can go through that in more detail but we are looking at where those trails are and if there's opportunities to add property adjacent to the trails because some of the trails may go through someone's private property right now. It's a long term plan that we may look at what is that an opportunity for us to purchase it it's in the floodplain they can't develop it anyways that's a good opportunity for us to come in and get an easement or purchase it and allows us to plan that going down the next 40 years. So that's definitely laid out in the trails plan which we'll get in a little more detail here in a few minutes. Okay well then I'll save my other questions for then. Any other concerns questions about potential land acquisition? I have a quick question if um you know we we I think we've talked about Quaker Park is is uh you know I mean it's it's a it's nice sized property in the middle of everything and so it's good for uh you know jazz festivals and blue festivals and you know all sorts of fun music things right but if you were to pick an area that it's not big enough okay in my opinion I think we need something about 50 to 100 acres with parking that could you know suit the the city's needs in the in the future because it's just too small but a Quaker Park is just too small um and we're not going to get a Zilker park that awesome but if you know 50 to 100 acres might be a a realistic view or shot where would you where would you plan to do that where would you if you were to build a park that was big it was 50 to 100 acres for you know like musical festivals and things like that uh where would you put it? That's that's a great question it would have been a good question maybe 50 years ago uh before a lot of things got built but um you know if you just look at Quaker town there's you know there's a lot of asphalt in Quaker town um if if the city ever has an opportunity to put up parking garages and we move in that direction and we could turn that asphalt into green space um that would allow us to kind of build the park from within um you know whether we need to uh rebuild the senior center it's been a discussion in our public meetings for um for that future that facility it it most likely probably wouldn't be in in Quaker town um so there's an opportunity to kind of bring green space back there as well um so I guess that's an opportunity for us to look at long term is could we use the land that we have now better um and keep it because it's such a core piece of property for the downtown you know it will never be able to buy that much land at an affordable price uh so that probably would be the easiest thing to do and then try to take some of those properties maybe even the the parking lot on the south side of McKinney and put a parking garage there and and that would help alleviate some of that that asphalt from the park and bring that green space back um but we we have tried to figure out you know where 50 years from now where we would ask that same question and you know the hills of Denton if we could get 50 plus acres up there for a future park absolutely you know hunter coal ranch has been on our radar for the past two years as well and and we've kind of put that bingo chip down on that location and then southwest park is a 190 plus acre parcel that we're working through right now uh that will be a future park and and what that is we don't know yet you know the community has to step up and and give us that feedback so we can move in the direction that they want um so we have a lot of opportunities um still moving forward as the community grows uh you know over the next 20-30 years to get those large parcels of property in place how about North Lake just to carry the follow-up question sorry North Lake same thing same thing with North Lakes uh you know we do have some of that is floodplain as well so we we're a little restricted on some of those parcels um but looking to see if there's some property around there that we could expand and preserve that open space there as well okay thanks you're welcome so i was just thinking about just kind of pop-up parks and that kind of concept similar to industrial do you have anything in mind just looking through the neighborhoods as specifically those that aren't within a 10-minute walk of maybe purchasing blight neighborhood homes or things along those lines and making a mini pop-up park one of our favorites is the cherry orchard i know it's not within this system um that would be like a dream come true if ever switched over um but is there is there anything along those lines that i mean you guys are looking at utilizing smaller spaces yeah so we do have a trail um going by that that chair orchard or cherry orchard um so that does connect to that um but yes so there are some parts like for instance the skate park the the the kids and the adults that are frequent skaters want to park downtown so we're trying to figure out where we where would be best to put a skate park that's not going to be a nuisance to people living there from lights and from noise uh but convenient for the kids because they wanted to be able to ride the train to get there and have kids come from other communities and meet them so there was easy transportation so we've been looking for areas around the train stations to see if we can't get some property there and it might entail have to buy a lot or two uh if we don't have that property available um i'll let you know so i don't know if you're familiar with the big idea but it's a space where you go and you share a cool idea that would make help better and i'm presenting this thursday and the idea is having a graffiti park um because we're so artistic that like it just seems fitting um and so looking at that i was curious if you guys had a specific location that you thought would be cool and if not like i'm just literally driving around town trying to find a spot but i know drew had mentioned thinking on those concepts before if you guys had something in mind we are talking to the the public art committee about something like that in the future so there'll be more to come any additional questions comments concerns so this is not an action item we were just if we were giving this information for um to give them feedback if needed yeah and again if you have any properties that you happen to be driving around and saying hey that might be a great location for a park please let us know and we'll uh do some additional research research on it all right elana i have one quick question um are you still planning on acquiring the property that's near unt as like a veterans memorial park veterans park um so yeah great question uh we had done some design work we shared that with you as well and council um and then unt i think was taking a step back looking at what they may want to do from that as a holistic approach whether it was better served for open space or redevelopment uh so that was pre-covid uh and truthfully it was totally off my radar so i'll circle back around and see that was being worked through through the city manager's office and i'll reach out to him and and see if there's a status on that we do have and it's not really on our list but we do have an area in mind coming up and hopefully we get to present it to you within the next few months because the development is moving pretty quickly right now but for a another veterans park so that does have a lot of ties with the veteran community here and didn't and kind of the history so mr walker did you have your hand up is there any information on the rodeo site the north texas we um i think real estate had reached out to them uh knowing that they had purchased other property and plan on moving uh and it was pretty expensive at the time so that made it kind of a little bit cooler for us uh but we definitely have it on our radar as an option okay i do sorry that would be amazing i am curious also what about um calhoun middle school as they move over to denton high they have like that one field that they use there in that neighborhood yeah that is actually an area that we need in a neighborhood park so there's a an open space a field with a track and a couple tennis courts behind the school too that could be used for recreational purposes so that's that's also on our tickler as well awesome and that one has a built-in parking lot which is nice too yes yep okay are we ready to move to the next item yes ma'am all right uh let's talk about the trails concept map okay so dr walker um i know you get you have met dr walker before he's presented with us we've been working on this with with dr walker for the better part of probably two years a year and a half um and we're at a point now where we're ready to start having some discussions uh with the general public and the park board and city council dr walker i'll turn it over to you and let you walk through i'll jump in as needed and just tell me when you'd like me to change the slide okay uh this is the where i believe we're at a stopping point um i hope for this project uh i've identified uh done a full assessment of the existing trail system identified what would be needed and then identified general corridors of where we think trails would go initially for the next really again this is a 10 to 20 year plan and along the way there's always an opportunity to change this if let's say land comes available we would shift some directions just to respond to that opportunity so uh just in this this opening slide is just a reminder that trails past the actual park land trails remain the number one requested resource um so it stays high on the list this chapter or the sorry this component of the master plan was a originally a subsection of one chapter and has basically grown into its own chapter due to the scope and uh outreach as well as the importance to the entire park system itself from there so um what this will go through is a brief review of the current system what's what the assets are where they're located um some estimations on maintenance cost and then where we've projected the opportunities to grow that also add to connectivity um so they contribute to the mobility plan so just as a key thing to point out on this is this is not the mobility plan i look at park trails the same way i would look at a baseball field it's an internal city park asset however anywhere we can we try to make the trail system function as part of the mobility system to enhance the overall connectivity of the city but it is not the city's connectivity or mobility plan it would be a portion of that and so a big recommendation is that from this chapter you've got to go to full engineering documents a full land assessment land bank acquisition and then go into individual trail plans past there and this would be worked on with the transportation department to then complete and enhance the overall mobility plan so a lot of cities actually will merge this content and their transportation data to create a pathways plan which would be a comprehensive scope so um all right we can go on from there so gary is this the most updated map yeah uh no it isn't we'll go online and show the real one here okay so just real quick and looking at the map uh what we'll see in the updated version is where uh each of the blue lines is what we indicate of where future trails are going to go and then where some current court corridors are pre-existing such as the katie trail that's there um portions of the northern section of the cooper creek trail are already in place and so we'll identify that and then a variety of parks have internal loop trails so they're just inside the parkland as its own individual feature and then as you can kind of see we've tried to make it imperative to get a trail system almost looping the entire city to create a comprehensive connectivity plan across and then spoke wheels back and across through so every neighborhood will have a chance to get to a portion of the trail that would then take you almost over 100 miles in any one given direction if you looped it that way and kind of went in and out of all the systems the blue dots that you see the light blue dots are all the areas that we've identified as needs to work with uh tex dot in crossings of major roads and major infrastructure uh they're high points to make the system actually work so you can have assets on one part of town but the roads almost function almost as dangerous if not worse than having a lake to get across so it's really important to make sure that tex dot is aware of this because as tex dot starts to approach um future upgrades such as the 288 loop uh we want to make sure that they're doing everything they can on their side per our request as a city of denton to maximize the usability and safety of those crossings that would be either on top or underneath those bridges and again tex dot has become incredibly responsive to this to help make this uh facilitate the growth of the rail system and the connectivity so uh current on the left we can see current internal park trails 20 almost 22 miles 21.31 miles is there and we know with all the park plans that are in place and the proposed developments that will expand to 31 point uh an additional 31 miles of internal park trails one of the examples of those would be what's out at mckenna park coming as that park ends up in its own internal loop creek and linear trails such as the katie trail as a linear trail and the cooper creek trail and its multiple sections that link up now 20 miles of current creek and linear trails and the hope is to expand that by another 17 miles of trails from there and again those are very very highly selected corridors to create more connectivity across the city streets and pathways connectors and paddling trails none of those currently exist in the system and the idea will be to increase enhance those the streets and side paths is basically a really nice gift from transportation as they upgrade the major roads uh transportation now puts an offset pathway as part of the mobility corridor that the city sorry the parks department will take over and provide all the maintenance for and to be able to count that in the trail system a majority of that future side street pathways will come from the hunter coal development and then a lot of things the city already has a plan with hickory creek road ryan road mingo road and as you'll probably seen mayhill as a great example of how they're going to build those and the quality that they'll build and then the paddling trails will be ones that will be on the water the connectors again are like these blue dots they're primary connectors that we've recognized it needs to be done the connectors add up to about 10 miles of segments themselves and will probably be the more expensive parts of the construction process due to the fact that the engineering required to work with text dot in getting through key port portions of the city system so when finished we'll have hang on we'll have that connectivity to additional 18 parks gary kind of showed that in some of the plans that he had for pecan creek of how uh pecan creek would then connect a variety of different parks along the way and a total of 210 new trail across this entire list with paddling trails the internal park trails and linear trails uh the cost will be estimated right now at about 60 million dollars um and if built out you're looking at additional 550 000 a year to maintain so drew's budget or represent drew's position would need that to provide the services to the trails to keep the edges mode um edged out for grass and then pruning and stuff that's needed on all these properties because if they're not kept up well they won't be used and that's a common thing so as it's built you also need to recognize you're going to need to find funding to maintain them going forward all right uh this is the list of the existing trails i'll just kind of let you look through it for a minute hopefully you're familiar with most of them i've had a nice time over the last uh year and a half of going out with my kids to all of these trails and walking them multiple times if not riding them regularly any questions on these just to just to provide some some feedback too i'm not sure how much detail we could get into in the past meetings but clear creek center is is now in the park system so we added you know 3 000 acres to the the city's park inventory so that's an area that drew's maintaining in cooperation with texas parks and wildlife in the united states army corps of engineers as well so that's new areas that will be using a lot of volunteer work to help maintain and and to maintain and repair and build trails as we decide to to evolve in that area specifically okay right can we get this online yes i'll send you the spreadsheet and i'll share the spreadsheet afterwards uh and how we got to all these details okay that'd be great one of the current concerns that was brought up in uh many of the meetings that we have hosted uh gary hosted across the last year and a half with focus groups and open community meetings as well as stuff that we gathered from working with the mobility plan so the mobility plan hosted three public meetings that we participated with in cooperation as well to gather more information about the trail system and people's requests and needs for just connectivity and a big concern is improving the crossing and crossing standards of what we already have and this will be this recommendation is to go back in and reassess the trail system i've done a lot of this in the pre-assessment however you have to go a step further in working with where their street crossings and working with transportation to make sure that all the distances and measurements are exactly right but essentially both on trail and trail crossings need to be restriped enhanced in some cases signage lighting and warning signals need to be placed in and this has become fortunately it's not as expensive as it used to be comparatively just because there's more products on the market now so as new trails are built especially through the urban environment crossings becomes really important to notify both the user of the trail that they need to slow down and be aware of their hitting a traffic point and for the traffic itself to be calmed and slowed down to be aware that there's constant pathways and with proper signage and education both parties learn to take it easy through these crossing areas so an initial part of this plan and the recommendations is to go in and enhance what we already have and then as everything's built build to these modern standards so that this is part of the standard infrastructure and design okay we can go on David has his hand up oh sorry go ahead David yeah with regard to those crossings are you favoring those that have sensors that kind of set off signals both directions that there is that there's traffic I mean I can think of an example on Windsor right by North Lakes where that one's pretty effective is it that kind of crossing that you're looking at it basically the higher the amount of traffic that crossing knows it's going to have the further you go up the scale in crossing attributes so yes you would add sensors lighting and flickering lights as you have a high density and speed of traffic at that crossing point where you have in a community area so if we took Cooper Creek further across over by Mack Park you have a crossing there that actually is a short crossing but again you have a fast roadway going through there so that one again would need flickering but just down the road at Stewart you don't you really just need striping and both sides identified so it's not necessary in cost analysis and in current safety standards to flicker out everything you would flicker out in now if you can get the money to obviously do it but you would go in succession of level of degree of difficulty and danger you might even come in and raise the bed a little bit in community neighborhoods to create what's just called a a raised pathway to slow traffic down so you get a traffic calming device as well and that's a cheaper way than putting in a lighting system so you want to make sure you put in something that you can afford to take care of and replace because the lighting systems do go down but yes where there's high traffic like the one over on the north side of North Lakes yes a flickering system with monitorings as well as lashings thank you another issue that needs to be addressed on the current trail system and again with inheriting Clear Creek there's a I don't want to say tremendous but there's a good amount of work to be done in stabilizing improving the especially the dirt trails that are out there and a variety of the concrete trails just have some shoring up and Dirichka has done a great job of keeping up with section replacement it's actually built into his budget strategy but again that will always be there with erosion primarily for dirt and then as brought up before requests came in for improving the lighting on certain portions of the trail system and again if we want to maximize usage picking high use corridors to actually add cost-effective solar lighting over long term as well and then all of this not put in here but standard in design now if y'all are familiar with the term with septet design is you design the trail system with lighting and swath and with management to limit the visual potentials for crime and threat on top of that just to add to that drew actually worked with our risk management group in the city and did a septet of Quaker Town Park because we had a number of concerns and questions about feeling safe and in some issues in the park itself so that's on our list that we're working on with some work plan items to improve lighting and safety and signage and a little bit of everything to help improve people's experience within Quaker Town yes James yeah uh for the security uh you know the police have you ever considered like doing like a police bike patrol as in asking them to patrol the trails yeah or you know that the city could some way budget you know it makes a big difference just the presence of police on the trail on a bike and they see you it makes a big difference that was actually part of the septet that that risk management put in there as a as a suggestion to have some sort of bike patrol if we could can i interrupt briefly is this is this going to be covered in the last section with regards to safety and security uh it we kind of touch it so if you if you we could go through the entire presentation then anything we missed then we could handle that at that point time would be great thank you uh current trail expansions by type again we get the creek and drainage trails and the estimated cost to build to um primarily using dirt and crushed gravel so we can see the cost is running near a million dollars just over a million dollars per mile from that area versus the internal park trail system same thing now the internal park trail system or internal park trails uh would be included in every park redesign and every new park that's put in so where hunter coal uh properties will build a park as part of their hoa development and part of the community and the developer putting in that infrastructure they will add and pick up that cost so a variety of these as parks are built again for southwest parks in the master plan of southwest parks if it includes a trail when you bond out to build southwest parks that would be included in that individual park so it's not going out and asking for 60 million dollars at one time for the whole trail system a lot of these are going to be included in park upgrades along the way the one portion that would probably be separate and requested would be those drainage trails in succession maybe three to four million dollars every two to three years to build out and acquire that infrastructure uh same thing with the paddling trails likely to be picked up hopefully with the texas park and wildlife grant and then contribute the city will make a standard 20 contribution which we'll show later and then for each type of trail you're going to pick up additional maintenance cost so down the road if this trail system is maxed out the way we would expect it to be the way we hope it would be there's also probably going to be a need for a comprehensive or full-time trail crew to manage this asset going forward so the same a lot of cities specialize and have a crew just for ball field maintenance because it's specialized there would be a small division for trail and tread maintenance as well but again this is the highest used and number one requested asset in the park system usually so that contribution is actually very small when you consider the millions of uses it gets across the year all right the internal park trails that are lists we can see them all the biggest one i point out at the top is the future mountain bike park a single track park that would be in the property gary showed already on the wastewater system up by heartley field road and then a variety of these as you guys are aware that these parks would come online unicorn lake expanded a little bit south lakes park again could be expanded southwest park as a future trail estimating at 2.5 miles and again picking up the maintenance costs for those park assets as we go so look through that for a minute and see if there's any that you have questions about a question okay um i'm looking at the mckinna park loop trail and it's showing that it's going to be a concrete trail when we talked about that trail months ago i was under the impression that it was going to be a crushed rock trail we we did talk about that and i think the council had mentioned it too so the the challenge there is the terrain and you know we we put a crushed granite trail and i'll let you drew chime in on this as well at the dog park and it's washing away a good chunk of that trail right now because all the water that's flushing through the the property so the concern there is if we put crushed granite in specific areas obviously where there's more terrain that it's going to be a constant maintenance issue so we're trying to balance where we need to put concrete and where we need to put crushed granite we still need to put in a concrete ribbon on the edges just to keep it the weeds from growing in and keep it clean if you go out to the dog park we did that with the concrete ribbon and if you look over towards the animal shelter there is no ribbon out there because that was kind of just like a temporary path that we put in you could see the difference of how much cleaner it looks with the concrete so it's not necessarily cheaper now there's certain people that want to run on crush on concrete that don't want to run on concrete or that would rather run on crushed granite or even asphalt would be in softer so there's a balance there so we're trying to look at where we need to put concrete and where it would make the most sense in alleviate staff and ongoing maintenance headache I understand what you're saying as someone who will be using McKenna Park I'm planning on running that trail you know weekly it is very disappointing to see that it's going to be concrete considering all the trails in the area are going to be concrete I'm pretty sure Razor Ranch is going to be concrete in it and it is as we age running on concrete hurts just a little bit more and I don't know if there are other options I know later in the presentation you will be talking about different types of tread so maybe consider putting in something that might be a little bit less rigid James yeah to that I have another question to two questions here one is to address what she was talking about is how wide or the is a trailer you do an eight-foot wide trail and how far how wide is the easement our standard is 10-foot whenever we can you know if we have to adjust in certain areas because the easement is small or there's a creek kind of really up against the property edge we'll have to figure out how to deal with that and kind of work around it but wherever we can you know 10-foot you know eight-foot if that's all we have that's fine you know the trail that's going down on 377 I think is five or six feet obviously we're a little late to the planning on that by the time we got everything up and running but that's something we look to expand down the road on future phases for 377 so wherever we can if we can get 10 feet that's great we get 12 feet that's even better but 10-foot is kind of our standard that we're working off of 10-foot for the trail or 10-foot for the easement 10-foot for the trail width okay what about the easement next to it the easement originally we're looking at 30 feet at a minimum 10-foot on each side of the 10-foot trail if we if we could get more that's great and also it also depends on if there's a creek or hills or slope or trees too on what that easement might look like right well then the reason I'm asking is because one of the things you can do if you got the easement next to the trail and you can do meet feel like a little running berm on either side or both so that to Alana's point because it concrete kills your knees what we did there was just to use a berm along the side that the runners could use that so they didn't have to use the actual get on the concrete part just just a just a point um secondly a question on the um one of the things I had asked about earlier as you well know was and I appreciate you mentioned the three second connection because that's the cottonwood trail is going to go all the way down along that railroad track there all the way to um I know uh all the way to actually go to Fort Worth that's there's a that's part of the cottonwood uh velo web trail and uh anyway but the one that concerned me most was like access a quaker town park from the train station there yeah so there's um the parking lots at city hall east which is on the north side of the train station is set to be rebuilt eventually and we've asked for a 10-foot trail to carry uh on the west side of city hall east that would take us to mckinney then we need to get from mckinney to quaker town so that one block needs some logistics in regards to how we're going to do that um so that that hasn't been flushed out yet but we we have that in mind try to figure out how to connect those and that'll help whenever the mckinney phase finally gets to the downtown area that'll be flushed out then okay at the timing yeah let's see okay thanks and dr walker I see that this internal parks trail proposed uh list does not include some of the newer parks so this will be periodically updated correct correct correct thank you looking at this list i'm just curious if there was anything and maybe i'm just missing it with mac park i know a lot of people utilize that park as a trail but similar to what you're saying it's like cattle what'd you call it gary cattle a cattle path yeah cattle path um sorry city folk um cattle path of like obviously where the individuals use the trail but there's also not a way to cross from one side of mac to the other safely like you would at south lakes or um north lakes park is there do you expect that there's going to be like you mentioned before that's a pretty major street some type of crossway for people i think i joked around with gary of can we build a bridge but is there a is there a way to connect that one part so the mac park on the south side which is roberts field uh that is in the canopy uh trails okay kind of property um and then crossing that street we would either use the the flashing lights like dr walker had mentioned or if if traffic counts were an issue we would have to send people down to the intersection and then back up to get to the park is the safest bet so those would be the two options a flyover bridge obviously is an option but from a cost standpoint it probably isn't feasible um but that's the two main options we have thank you and that would be in the uh comprehensive trails plan so not the chapter you would go back and assess access and this is in here a little bit later accessibility to every single park from a walking perspective and the entire city from there all right so um so we'll move forward a little bit the creek and drainage linear trails these are the ones that really provide the greatest opportunity to link major sections of the city across the city using the current creek corridors a lot of these trails kind of exist as goat paths and old equestrian paths and fishing paths that have been walked in that would require to get easements and agreements with the corps of engineers for a lot of these properties and then go back in and formalize the trail and establish the beds so that's part of the big plan and you can see a lot of these have phases so we'll see hickory creek in here multiple times and the same thing with pecan creek in here multiple times um the majority of these trails due to the nature of the ground and costs would be either dirt or crushed um so there if you're wanting to go out and run um especially a long distance this would be that softer surface opportunities through a more to provide a stable tread but also have one that's purpose allows water to get through it and reduces the maintenance a little bit and the cost of installation it's a whole lot cheaper to build these than it is to put concrete down and the corps won't really want concrete in most of the properties that's a whole different animal to take on for agreements so they do require maintenance not quite as much mostly pruning and mowing as opposed to edging and cutting through for there so this is kind of that list to look through now some of these you will see concrete in here listed for certain portions of these trails where we've estimated if they're put in would have extremely high use um they could they might start as concrete and if the use is actually there that's expected the city would then go back in and invest and then put in a concrete trail initially most of these would go in unless supported with development money would go in as crushed crushed rock if not just well sturdier yeah and dirt trails if managed right hold up really really well um you know the forest service has figured this out if you actually establish the trail properly under proper conditions and slopes and then manage those slopes and manage the tread with compression strategies such as just rolling it every year um thanks to the clay that's in the soils around here the treads can actually hold up as good as concrete if they're managed properly so that's where you get back to the maintenance strategy from there street and side pathways again this is what is going to be inherited a good example is mayhill which is why it's one of the pictures in there this is where as the city goes in and upgrades the roads throughout this throughout town they constantly are coming back and then adding on one side a larger at least eight foot pathway with a nice easement on both sides that make it multi-use for non-motorized transportation and it's still a walking path on the other side in the majority of these trails where the land is available to them all of these are planned to be concrete as the city puts them in there's no cost which is great for the side paths because they're part of that road project however there will be long-term maintenance cost as the city inherits every single one of these segments this is also a massive amount of connectivity being provided across the city and expansion the trail system it's probably the largest long-term impact to the entire system coming forward at no cost that the city has it's just that the park system doesn't control when these projects are done just in full disclosure the while we put down phases on here we're not sure if those are going to be the phases for the actual road construction we looked at it from kind of like major roadway to major roadway and just kind of broke it up into smaller sections so we're working with our CIP team to try to figure out exactly what those phases may be to try to get more detail but as a section of a park master plan we're way deep in the weeds already so we've gone well beyond a standard kind of trail section of a master plan would be with some of these details so it just allows us to look at planning in a little more advanced paddling trails growing opportunity across the state of Texas and really across the country Gary has a background with working and establishing these in Arlington as well there is with lake access and lake proximity for the city there's great opportunity here and we've identified a variety of locations of where these could go and estimated their length and then general cost estimation for putting them in and again what's nice here is these are highly supported by Texas Park and Wildlife to create access to the outdoors just another way to get involved and and are those just the Elm Fork I mean along the Elm Fork River itself or those some specific construction or work that would need to be done there would be launch points that would need to be created for some of these other plan and again we'll get to it and just a little bit would be to have ADA access as well as for these launches and you have markers that you would need to put in especially for the lake trail so a couple of these trails are actually in the on the lake itself and you'd go out and actually put your marker points that you know you can see them at a distance so you know you're going in the right direction and not just cutting across a cove and possibly getting to a section of the lake you didn't want to go to so I do have a question about that I guess if we're gonna if the responsibility of that is going to fall at least partly under us I've paddled a lot of those trails on the Elm Fork at least from Ray Roberts all the way down to Sandy Lake Park and there's you know log jam after log jam where you have to get out in portage and and deal with those problems and they're actually worse now than they've ever been is that something that would ultimately fall under our responsibility to have to take care of it the plan would be to get permission to either cooperatively take care of them or yes take over the management of them completely if allowed the Corps is very protective of what's done on their land but Clear Creek's a pretty good example of how they're trying to step away from land management I'm sorry go ahead a good example would be Grapevine Lake Grapevine Lake has I believe 16 park segments that go all the way around the lake the Corps only now manages two of them they've handed over the management of all the other properties to the local cities recognizing that the cities have time and the desire to address it to make it usable for their residents again the city has to do everything under Corps environmental regulations so it's not like you can just go you know put a stick of dynamite in there and blow it out because that's how you want to manage it so when an issue happens that has to be taken care of the city can get permission to do it it's just going to be done under Corps guides and Corps regulation for them okay it kind of seems like they have stopped doing that so I didn't know if that was going to be the same kind of issue that we're going to have so um no and part of go ahead Gary just just to kind of add to what Dr. Whiteford said the Army Corps of Parks and Wildlife came in and cleared out the southern log jam on the south side of 380 so that's been cleared up we still have one on the north side and we realized that that's going to be kind of an ongoing challenge obviously we'd love for someone else to take care of that if we can so we'll definitely try to reach out to them as much as possible to make sure those cleared obviously if there is a log jam we can't we can't be promoting these so wherever we can kind of open up a section of it maybe on the north side more that's great maybe it's just the southern side down where the the coves are to get those open and just continue to kind of work through the process you know I just I would just like us to be conscious of that because I think that could end up being a real headache for us I've never been able to paddle down there without having to pull out and portage for several hundred yards absolutely totally agree with you just a reminder we have about 23 minutes left of meeting time you tried to cut me off Francis I'm just trying to get through the meeting James yeah the one of the things that helped down on the Great Lake Grapevine you mentioned that there's a north shore to two major trails on the north side one's the north trail or the run by a group called Dorba Dallas Off-Road Bicycle Association so there's a possibility of like getting a you know since you have kayakers and people like that canoeist that maybe get a group to they maintain those trails right he does not and and then the other is the equestrian trail there's a question trailer goes around here too so like a seven and a half mile equestrian trail that's maintained by Tetra which is a local equestrian club so they both two different groups through different trails but that's how they take care of that they they maintain agreement and agreement to use it they also have to agree to maintain it correct and and with that it's very possible again it takes a it's an effort and some investment but you can help establish either like the park foundation or association groups or clubs that would get the training by certain members so that they could appropriately do the work under core guidance and they can do cooperative training with the core to take care of these things so that would be part of the long-term plan and again as Gary mentioned you would bring each trail each paddling trail online as you knew you had a long-term feasible strategy to make it work not just jump in and take them and then have a maintenance headache that you could really take care of so as far as the delay for the core properties budget has been a big problem for them they lost Texas Park and Wildlife had a whole lot of money they had to give up that would have come up to this section to deal with Hurricane Harvey which is why a lot of the log jams were left unmanaged for quite some time as they slowly worked back they're trying to get to you know highest needs at their appropriate time okay this is a list of the primary connectors and again this is I'm sorry go ahead and I had two questions about the paddling and I noticed that some of those are you launch at the state park and so you have to pay like the state park fee to get to the trail if the city takes over those trails will people still have to pay the state park fee so are the proposals that we have here are opportunities that we would be working with the Texas Parks and Wildlife to get these enhanced promoted planned so if if that section of the trail is still under their jurisdiction and you would have to pay the fee for that specific location some of these may not be or they all may be a joint partnership down the road we're not sure yet we haven't flushed through all that yet but just on the surface if you were going to launch at a Texas Parks and Wildlife you would have to pay any associated fees for that or have a pass so I guess I just don't I don't understand the list if it's like it's saying greenbelt 428 is a trail and we're gonna do $2,000 maintenance cost for the year if it's already a state park I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding how it's not just a state park paddling trail versus a city park paddling trail yeah so there so the maintenance is just on there as a placeholder if we were have to maintain that based off of estimates that park maintenance and drew have put together but if obviously if that's being maintained currently by Texas Parks and Wildlife we won't have to do that so we would take that off or be asking for grants to buy buoys signage maps launch ramps through Texas Parks and Wildlife for that capital improvement and again the starting point could actually be from city-controlled property so you can go up the creek and as long as you're not launching or taking out on their property you don't pay the fee not that many people paddle upstream but it is done yeah I do right I do too so you could leave from Clear Creek or if the city acquires a launch point on Lake Louisville and work your way back up what is considered to be a state park paddling trail it just depends on which direction you go and then where the access points are provided to it and I know where to hurry get my other question is have have you all looked at Clear Creek as being a paddling trail like launching from there at Fisherman's Trail or somewhere yes yes we have okay and that's why actually drew we might need to go back in and consider adding that in if we know especially with the potential of the Don Carter development if that could be a possible launch site that would go that far up and it's going to depend on what happens with the water now that the log jams being removed down at the bottom of the green belt okay but I'll add that to it to expand the list and take a look at that today tomorrow okay the connectors just I'll move this a little quicker these are some of the primaries that are recognized to be needed to expand the potential of connectivity across the city as well as get from one part of the town to the other the biggest one being the opportunity to get through underneath i-35 to the side of the current railroad tracks headed towards the future side path trail that would be down 377 that would then provide connectivity to the future cotton belt trail so this is one list and again Gary do we have a larger one later we do have a we have an entire another power point of all the text dot connector points which has it so this is just an example to say that we recognize that within this system there's going to be a lot of quick short segments that need to be identified to create trail to trail connectivity or across the system so they're not necessarily long enough there might be expansions or they're just the need to create the linkage that doesn't exist right now and expand maybe take a trail another quarter mile or through a pathway or through an underpass and appropriately design it so that would work where needed some of these may have to become on street connectors as well where you have bollard and protected pathways as you see in the middle picture where you have a barrier separating the road from the rider another issue too that will be paid attention to recommended in this entire plan is to pay attention to the design so that you maximize ada accessibility and ada use across the entire system again i'd go back to and i've done this i've worked on trails for 25 plus years now is you can put in a dirt tread trail if it's established right and maintained that would meet ada standards you just have to stay on top of it and keep it in good shape so the idea would be in everything done at the point of access in the parking lots as well as the treads themselves to maximize ada potential across the entire system this is just quick overview of the different types of surfaces that we primarily use between paved crushed dirt rock and then boardwalks were needed possibly out in the clear creek area or in low-lying areas to it's just it's it becomes a more cost-effective way to traverse certain portions of the terrain signage and support is another recommendation some of this is needed on the current trail system now to improve and understand wayfinding and where when you hit certain points what's in each direction or how far you've gone and again this is just an overview of the general signages that's needed for trail identification safety uses courtesy as well as confirmation and then turn and directional decisions this is one example of one of the future internal trails to be built this is the one that was shown at the heartley field property so this line's a little off going through what will have to be that top left section for where the wastewater treatment is needed to block off land for usage but the idea will be to come in and put in a five to seven mile single track dirt course within this property and also create a connector that would go over to the clear creek property where there's currently restaurants available so it would be to make that connection next to it and then long term if possible to acquire the land next door and expand the connectivity of the two parks as well going forward but i'll leave that in the land acquisition plan from there so this kind of just shows a way to use that land we'll jump to the next one some other opportunities that exist is to add within loop trail system similar to like a skate park is areas of pump tracks to be identified that can be put into a single track adding on trick features as cutouts something that dorba loves to do with their trust systems so you can have a trail system that lets us say in the world of ski slopes is a green and then you can have cutoffs that get it blue and black and have trick features added on to it to create more interest in writing and when you build specialty features like this into the trail system they become destination opportunities that actually contribute to your tourism dollar and your your visitation dollars as well there's also dedicated funding for some of these types of developments because the associations and industries that build them recognize they reinvest to keep them going in selling property or sorry in selling equipment to maintain them primary one is atv trail development for motorized which again came up in the focus group meetings and the community input is texas park and wildlife has a specific fund dedicated just for motorized trails that's out there because a portion of the gassed money to gas tax that's collected for individuals that own atvs this is how they give it back to them to help create these state park trail systems and also potential revenue generators other interpretive and historic use trails would be the veterans trail and founders of the community's trails this would be taking either existing trails that are in place within the city parks now or in future parks that go in and dedicating to these types of usage as well as putting in the signage and information to make them function this way you kind of see some of that on the trail system going down the katie trail now with signage along the way and this would just be identifying those that we have or will have in the future to function in this capacity equestrian trail use again as it's in this part of the country horses are a big thing and it came up as well and there is the potential for either separate use or possibly shared use shared use can be done if it's designed right and maintained right as well as signed and educated appropriately for certain portions of the corridor trails or the quarter lands and the easements to be put in as it as equestrian use down the road and then overview again of hunter coal of what's coming how much of that future trail system specifically will just be in that one long-term development but again that's probably at least 20 years away from being completely built out it yeah probably even be more than that depending on the economy in the plan in the chapter is just a quick general estimate of cost and where funding would come from and historically a variety of this would be done internally through bonds bond packages and such however there are in the case of the side paths the 130 expected miles to come on from side paths will cost the city nothing just again planned maintenance costs down the road for the parks department paddling trails again have a very well documented historic match opportunity from texas park and wildlife equestrian trails since they would be shared would be built into the use opportunity as well so it's just to overview the budget and this is just a closing slide to go back to the overview of the entire system and what this chapter will look like in the master plan so now questions or additional questions yes uh quick question of the 210 miles of trails um how much how many miles do you think will be connected like in the next five years um that that's a tough question um it i i don't even know how to answer it you know the the pecan creek trail would be the easiest one for us to build because the majority of it is government property um obviously when the roads are built uh you know if bonnie bray is completely done you'll be able to go from 77 down to uh vintage um so that'll be a complete stretch a portion that is going to be on road uh from vintage to rose lawn um and then vintage is under construction right now from 35 to 377 so there's really it's not going to be a smooth uh process of point a to point t it's going to be a s b f g it's it's not going to be you know like like pushing over dominos uh it's going to be scattered based off of priorities condition of land acquisition of property uh grant opportunities so it's going to be all over the place so you may have trails that have three or four segments that aren't connected and we need to you know get those connections when you know someone dedicates the land 10 years from now so it would be great to be able to say we could do everything at one time bonnie bray you know mayhill some of those roads are probably the easiest way joe and jump in if i'm if you have any ideas the easiest way to get a large stretch done at one time because they're going to go in and hit a road all at once um that probably would be the easiest way to get a long stretch but when working through the creeks uh that's going to take time that's not going to be a slow process um because there's a lot of land and a lot of private land that we need to work through and see if we can acquire or get you know easements and those types of things um and then obviously the funding to build it too so i know the cip the transportation group goes after grant funding for for roads and we'll be going after grant funding for the trails too so trying to get them built as as quickly and as cheaply not not necessarily cheaply but as uh fiscally responsible for the city to try to use tax you know federal tax grants and those types of things whenever we can uh but it's not going to be fluid like a b and c type of rollout is there a place online where people can um go and see like right now if they wanted to go like do a five mile run where the best places in town to go for a five mile run are as part of this we're trying to figure out and joe is looking at where smaller loops are throughout the city and how we could eventually have almost like you know a necklace of loops around the city where if you live in one location you could jump on that loop and and go out and come back around or if you wanted to go around the entire city there's a way to do that at some point in time too so it's really you know 30 year plan plus to try to get a lot of these things done um but that's part of the process that we'll get into more detail as we go forward with the trails plan you know this is typically i think dr walker said maybe 15 to 17 to 20 pages long and and we're well past that with a lot more detail than you would typically see uh in a master plan for an entire park system then eventually we'll have to do a trail system master plan that's going to have a lot more detail i i would say if if the concrete can get done even in a crushed gravel strategy cheaper quicker and all the agreements can get in place um that one has potential to connect to mayhill and thanks to mayhill already being done and mayhill having the opportunity to connect back to the katie trail you could have a 15 mile loop opportunity just there and then again if you can get pecan creek or through mayhill connected back to cooper creek you can get to 20 to 25 miles within the next probably seven to eight years would be more feasible if the city makes it a priority and can provide the parks department the funding you could do it in five but that's asking a lot to have everything's got to fall into place with agreements for it to happen in five you have if you want to go for a five mile run now well you have that on the katie trail now you can start downtown and go quite a ways now and keep going not necessarily in the city of denton but you can actually get to lewisville now by following that trail system because it connects all the way down into lewisville as well as flower mountain so you pick up their trail systems as well so the connectivity now of continuous riding uh the further side gone in one direction back out and back was uh 36 miles is what you can do now from leaving denton downtown yes that's a great question though and some good ideas that we'll definitely work on yes uh thanks um uh online map a couple years ago we had an online map of the trail system both proposed and again the wines are white rubber bands you know they're not you know definitely going to go this exact location but at least put bands in there so that people can know where our trails are and and make the plan that alana if she wants to do that she can go up online and look at the map is there any plans or put a map up there and also like the kind you can put in your butt on your iphone or whatever while you're riding your bike and look at where you are relative to the map yeah once once everything's flushed out we'll definitely make sure it's it's interactive and technology can be enhanced with all that information we do have everything on a on our gis system as of right now and that's the map that we shared with you if you might think back in january when we talked about this we're at a point now we're trying to flush out the to get the pros and cons the goods and bads of everything before we go in and start finalizing things and putting plans out there for final you know engineering those types of grant applications so right now we're trying to flush it out and make sure that we're on the right track and get feedback whether it's from you city council and the community as a whole i have a question for eddie and are we on a strict 230 time limit but i do ask yes we are so right after us that's net had to do that starts exactly three but they have to do the setup as well just like what we did so we have two additional items left and um looks like um i don't know if we can get through that in three minutes so um shall we table these items and and i move that we table them well david let me finish this oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i would draw my motion i was trying to be efficient i have three minutes two and a half i need a motion to table the last two items and for the next meeting i also move david made a motion jameson i'll second his motion okay with that in mind i need a motion to uh two things additional things to add with the two items is to gary you're going to come back and talk to us about the unt property the veterans park and i wanted to add the absentee policy and possibly invite rosa so we can discuss that policy for the next meeting before before we depart just wanted to give everybody a heads up in uh with uh goods and bads of laura barons is going to be moving over to finance um she's taken over the grand administration position for the city so we hate to see her leave but it's it's another opportunity for her to diversify her portfolio uh for city management um so friday or i guess thursday technic was her last day she was off on friday but um and she's she went to california for the weekend so tomorrow she'll be back she's going to be at city hall east for a little bit but she'll be housed over here at city hall uh so she'll still be with the city she's helping us with the 915 16 ordinance so she's still going to be involved for that so she's not gone completely uh so she'll be back probably at the next meeting uh just if we're going to try to get that on the agenda for um next month if we can if not november for sure uh we would like to get that rolling so yep she uh so we we are going to be we're advertising for that position on a search for another ad we'll obviously be taking internal and external applications uh so it'll be a few months before we get somebody on board okay i saw elana you had a question and david has a question yeah i was wondering um in the future maybe um we're too full for next time but could you talk to us about your acquisition of clear creek and what that looks like yep thanks david uh yeah i'd like maybe just a little update on the changes with uh kdb and how that affects things with the parks department all right i need a motion if there are no more questions of concern i may have a motion to adjourn the meeting james emmerich i need a motion i need a second please i'll second the motion miss presley miss taylor landon presley taylor has second okay meeting is adjourned at 2 30 eddie