Jan 12, 2026 Historic Landmark Commission on 2026-01-12 5:30 PM

start. I like to be on time. All right. We are going to call this meeting to order if you will join me in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. I mean you're going to say that. Always do. Always do. All right. This is the regular meeting of Monday, January 12th. And do we have any cards from the public that would like to speak? Do we have any cards? No cards? All right. Item 3A, number 8, JLC 25-E171. Our agenda is to consider approval of the December 8th, 2025 minutes. Does everyone have a chance to switch the minutes? Okay. So we have a motion. Second. And we have a second. All in favor, raise your right hand. All right. All right. Or left hand. It doesn't matter. All right. Thank you. Next item 3B, number COAA25-0010. On our agenda is to hold a public meeting and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the development code to partially rehab the first floor facade of the commercial building at 122 North Locust Street. The site is located on the southeast corner of West Oak Street and North Locust Street within the Denton Square district. All right. Good evening, Chair and members of the Historic Landmark Commission. Shawn Jacobson, associate planner. Here to present COAA25-10. Just a little bit of background. This is at 122 North Locust Street, so on that southeast corner of Oak and Locust. Y'all are probably pretty familiar with the building. This is within the Denton Square district, so we will touch on those standards. My church is the applicant. The original construction date was circa 1875. The first picture we have of this is 1938, so first recorded of that. This is a property that has seen significant architectural alterations. So you'll notice by 1968, we've already lost those windows. 2002, we've gotten the windows back, but we've lost the ground floor doors. And then now to present, we're in, we have the windows but different awning. We're to the point where this is not a contributing building to the National Register District. It is a Locust Historic Landmark. We're very glad the building is there, but as far as architectural features, there's not a lot there remaining that is truly architectural. So what is being proposed is a partial rehabilitation of the first floor. The applicant has proposed two options for your consideration, as well as considering just in general the project. The primary difference here, option one has four by six windows. Option two has five by six windows. And we'll get more into details of that, but just to kind of highlight, that's the main difference between those two options there. As you can see, existing conditions that changes. So it would be just to show you, going back to a much more similar design to what we had originally, which was more windows, open door at the front, versus what we have now, which is very closed first floors. Can I ask one question? Yes, ma'am. So is that proposal going from the four windows to three windows for the drawing, or is it going to stay the floor? The top, the second story is not changing whatsoever. It happens to show three there, but that, no, there's no change playing with that second story. We're looking solely... Right, I was just looking at that drawing. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I understand. Yes, that is staying the same. That's the door that goes up to Pascal's. There's another rendition here that kind of shows a little bit more proportion of Pascal's and everything on there as well. So again, looking a little bit closer at this, the windows proposed would be either the four by six or five by six, that being matte black, five whole windows. The idea being there that you have that double pane, which is more historic, but it also provides more flexibility for the space. You can actually functionally open those windows and have interaction between the street and the interior, which I will note when we were writing the square district was something that we actively encouraged that we wanted to see more functional windows because it does help to create more connection, more of a welcoming environment. The existing black columns there, which are the one actual remaining historic architectural future, are being preserved. And then what is proposed, the new door, that would be a clear glass, pre-hung cast iron door. And then the wood proposed, I'll talk about that in a minute, but that would be a bare stain. So that's the same on either one. That would be a terracotta stain. So option two, again, exactly the same except proposing the five by six windows. And I will note as we're looking at this, due to this supply chain and availability, the proposals, initially those will be a temporary picture windows. And then as soon as the by pool windows are available, then those will be moved in, but just for timeline issues. So to look a little bit closer here, you can see the proposed stain is the bare terracotta. Staff's recommended giving options in maintaining what is original, which are those pillars, and then designing really some additional options that will highlight those and bring more attention as by bringing more of the wrought iron or wrought iron like design elements to that first story. So as staff when we're analyzing, as you as the Historic Landmark Commission, because this is within a National Register District, we always look at the Secretary of Interior Standards. This is a rehabilitation project. So that means kind of the key things we're going to look at are, are we retaining and preserving the historic character of the property, not removing anything distinctive? As we discussed, there's almost nothing distinctive to not remove. The one thing that is still distinctive on that first bar of those pillars, and they are being retained, are we maintaining distinctive materials, features, finishes? Again, what is original is those columns and actually the new design helps to bring more attention to them through the use of the proposed porch and windows. Those new additions, not destroying historic materials, features, spatial relations, kind of problem there. The new work will be differentiated, it's clearly different, and yet it will fit with what is existing on the building. We do also want to look at the Dainty Square District Standards. The two areas primarily are the façade standards and then fenestration, glazing, and entry with façade. The primary requirement there is that we have a certain number of architectural elements within a certain space, which is 25 feet, because we do have two windows and a door plus those pillars is more than meets that requirement. Where requirements related to the type of glass, we wouldn't want to have reflective glass, glass meets that requirement, as well as the proposed material, stained wood, that does also meet our requirements. So as far as the Dainty Square District is concerned, this meets all standards. So staff's recommendation is option two. Rationalities, the larger windows are more in keeping with the windows that you see. Many other buildings around the square provide us some examples, and many of our more historically preserved buildings, you see the larger windows. Option two does provide that. The bifold window, I recommend that because it does allow for a more creative use of the space, but you still get that two-panel look that is more historic. And again, as noted multiple times, we're retaining that one original element pre-1949, which is those metal columns that is being retained. So with that, staff is recommending approval as submitted. We recommend the use of option two. Obviously, the commission can recommend option one. That is our recommendation, and we recommend approval of the project to do this partial rehabilitation to bring this back more in line with what originally existed, and encourage the drive of new business. So happy to answer any questions. The applicant is also present. Commissioner, do you all have questions? Actually, one question. So I noticed that the images submitted today differ fairly substantially from the ones that you posted in October of 2025, and I was just curious about the reason for the change. The original ones, I think, is because we had to maintain the wood at the bottom of the windows. It couldn't be actually four opening doors. Yeah, I think maybe what you were thinking of, the original plan was to maybe take the windows all the way to the floor, and Cameron and Sean. Yeah. Yes. There was more wood to be seen versus the windows going all the way to the floor and opening up like that. The original plan was to make it where you could walk in through the whole space. But Cameron has some good points that people do that, and then if we decided not to, that would be too much. So I have a question. We talked about temporary windows, and I have an issue with temporary windows. Do we have a time frame, or do we have a time limit on that? Because in our backup material, it looked pretty broad, and that's not an issue. So I did check with Cameron beforehand to make sure that we were going in that letter, that we would make sure that we had clear requirements related to making sure that we get that, and that our building safety inspectors also have the understanding that that is the goal. And so we've done that many times before in working with folks where we set, we have time limits that do have some flexibility, just to acknowledge that sometimes everyone has the best intentions and then five things don't come through. But we are not prone to just giving open-ended, someday this will be done. Is it just the windows that would be temporary? I assume you're ripping it out, reframing it, putting the facade on, and just filling in those gaps at the windows? My opinion is that is the only temporary element. So the reason for the temporary window is because these five-fold windows are about seven to nine weeks out once I put the order in. And I didn't want to do it before because they're very expensive. You guys can understand that. So I've talked to my framer. The plan is to put the temporary windows in, and he will frame them out. So once we do get the other ones in, it will probably be less than a five-day period once those other ones come in. And once I get y'all's approval on what we can decide to do, I will order those five-fold windows probably tomorrow. So I would like to have this done within the red Italian. We plan on opening in two months after we open Ruby Rodeo, and I would like to have it all done by then, which would be before May 1st, roughly. What's the material of the permanent windows? Of the permanent windows? If there's nothing in there about that. Black five-fold window? Yeah. I can show you the exact windows or the five-fold if you want to see that. Yeah, I would. And the reason is, for the very condition that that building is in, that there was nothing, you know, not much left of historic. And I think these are the types of things that fall through the crack that caused that. And I think we have to be very diligent on what we're approving temporary versus what is the permanent going to be in those gaps. So I would like to be clear on that. And I would like to have a clear state. If we approve temporary, what the timeline would be, so it doesn't fall through the cracks. And just to be clear, what's shown here, this is the permanent. This is? Yes. But it's aluminum as well? The metal. It's aluminum. It's aluminum. And the temporary window would still have that exact same appearance. It just wouldn't open yet. It would be a picture window with no single panel. But temporary would also have to meet our inspector's guidelines, the city guidelines for that. Yeah, so we'll have, when Cameron writes that letter, we can even just put in like, hey, we're going to be checking in with you at X state here to make sure that this is done and that. So we can have follow-up built in. And we do this. Obviously, that's something we do all the time. Right. But you're asking us to approve. I just want to make sure that we have that very, very clear on what that's going to look like in the timeframe for that. And just a question about the temporary. Is the temporary necessary? Like in my house, I replaced some windows and they had to be custom ordered in some sort of situation. And so we needed to frame it before we could order it. Is that what's going on here, or is this just a desire to get things moving? So ideally, we would like to order aluminum black mat picture windows. Right. And a five by six or four by six and stick those in picture windows. And when we get the bifold windows in, pull those out, put the other ones in. I don't know if there's a way to bypass the whole, I mean, I'd love to bypass the temporary window and save myself fear of $4,000. But I don't think that's really possible. And just go straight from that to the bifold window, unless we want to board it up and, you know. The other reason I ask is because if we do one window by our guidelines, in order for them to come out and switch a window, it has to come back to HLC. So that's my concern with the whole thing is like, we're kind of coming in a back door with the temporary windows. Does that make sense? If they asked today, hey, we're doing this window. And then in three months, they came back and said, we want to do the bifold. It would take another COA to do that. So that's what I'm just wanting to make sure of what we're, what we're doing and what we're proving because we're going to prove this. Yeah. And again, I think that would go to having the written conditions in the letter that Cameron will provide and it will clarify the requirement is you end up at this. This is not optional. This is required. Yes. That's what I wanted to make sure. I have a wacky question just because this is this one of my favorite old girls in downtown. This building is. And so, and I'm curious since we talk about like ordering time and things. How has the process been for you all? I mean, it's in ordering the windows and the wait time and things like this. I'm just wondering if getting them like historically conforming is creating any extra obstacles or if it's also going to be just a regular kind of shipping supply. It's just, well, I getting the windows is seven to nine, the bifold windows is seven to nine weeks. Yeah. I've looked at the picture windows. If this is on the table, I don't know if it is. I would love to do more of a temporary window with acrylic window because these windows, these five by six picture windows are not available until about mid February. Now I did talk to my framer. If I do a four by four window, I can get those here by next week. That's a smaller picture window, which would be fine because the bifold doors are larger. So you would frame it smaller, obviously, and then take out that frame to do the bifold windows. Does that make sense? Yeah, I don't think that we can do that because that's not what is before us. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, what we presented in the back. Sure. Sure. And that's fine because that's what we're most anyway. I was just trying to solve it when I look forward to it. I'm going to see the old lady back. All right. Shawn, anything else? All right. Commissioners, discussions, thoughts, or questions? I'm just happy to see that it's been improved. Cameron's been great to work with. She's kind of pointed us in the right direction on what she wants and what we want to get done. Yeah, I really like the reason I was leaning towards the second option too because of how it kind of opens it up and it conforms to what the other windows on the place look like, but it's also going to something look great in terms of continuation of the look and feel. I like the bigger ones too. I feel like a little bit more light in there. So dark. Well, I also think that, you know, especially in a building like this, it doesn't have the same sort of historical architectural features as some of the other buildings on the square. And it feels like the way this is being done in 50 years, it might still look like that. I would say if that happens in the case, then that would be great. I feel like questions have been answered to my satisfaction and I'm very happy to see this be a venue again. I think it's making progress for the aesthetics to come back to looking more historic than what it was, and I like that a lot. I like the windows coming in too. We all know part of historic is windows, which is a pain because... I see what you did there. But I live in one of those houses with those kinds of windows. There is no energy efficiency whatsoever. So that's why I just kind of want to make sure on those and that has to my satisfaction. I appreciate that. So commissioners, I'll open that up for any type of motion. I'll make a motion. And I'll second it. As option two. All right, all in favor, raise your hand. All right, motion passes as presented for option two. Thanks. And those photos I said, I don't know if Angie, if you were here, those were, but it's going to look on the one side. That was taken about a week ago. We've done a little bit more than that. So we're excited that, you know, the interior, the first picture, that blue tile in the front, it's kind of be more like a chill space. There'll be sofas and couches and chairs. Whereas older people that don't want to be right next to the stage. Are the bathrooms on the first floor? Oh, they're beautiful. Yeah, I'm just making sure because that one bathroom right behind the stage has been not in good shape. There's two bathrooms. You won't even recognize it. Yeah. And wait till you see her. She's singing already. We love her historic features as well. Let me know if you spot the haunted dog that's still hanging out with her. Yeah, they're like, no, you say dog or dog? It's a dog. I'll take the marketing for Halloween, right? Absolutely. I got the storage ready. Let me introduce us. My name is Mike Church and Victor and I are the owners of Ruby Rodeo in Red Italian, which is going to go downstairs. This is Chef Denise. She's going to be running the kitchen downstairs for Red Italian. We will also have live bites and everything up on the main level is up on Ruby Rodeo as well. But the plan for Red Italian is more of an intimate Italian restaurant. Maybe 58 people down there. That's about it. Are familiar with that building? The kitchen is fairly small downstairs. It's a very small space downstairs. We are doing, I think it's going to be incredible down there. Do you want to tell them a little bit about the bar that we're doing down, the bar top? Yeah, so we're doing a light up countertop, light bar top, which I think being so enclosed and being underground, I think that's going to be one of the great features that that place has. Aside from all the craft cocktails and tasty delicious food. Cool, I'm going to play the parliamentarian card and point out that the item has been approved and congratulations. Thank you guys. All right, item 3C, number HLC 25-0068 on our agenda is to hold a discussion regarding the formation of a designation research committee to assist in the establishment of a potential new local historic district generally located along North Elm and North Loka Street corridors between West McKinney Street and West University Drive. All right, so as you'll probably remember even better than I do, in the discussion of the desire to have new historic landmark districts kind of that centrally there was a question of how to pursue that and the recommendation there was to have a designation subcommittee to support the work of your existing committee and so we're bringing that recommendation back to you all for your consideration. Could anybody remind me, I remember when Adrienne brought this up the first time that she was explaining why there would be a good reason to have the subcommittee sort of insulated and I can't remember I can't remember what the logic was. So one of the issues that she emphasized to me was we want to make sure that we're avoiding creating a quorum situation. Oh that's right, that's what it was. So that's why staff recommends we can be on that street and be considered by the law. And we will get to the discussion members right now. Do we approve having one? That's all this is? Yes we will. The very next item we will then move to. Okay, gotcha. I make a motion to approve it. That will be our second chance. Perfect, yes. Okay so we're voting on do we want to do it or not? Yes correct. So your options are vote to create or decline to create. Oh thank you, okay. Well I make a motion that we vote to create the designation. All right all in favor to create the subcommittee raise your hand. All right we're going to do it. Now we get to a point. Okay yes so now now that you have created this we have two primary goals with the next discussion. One of that is to choose our three members. The other will be for y'all to lay out some high level goals for this subcommittee. I think many of y'all probably have kind of a sense of what that is. We want to be careful not to get too into the weeds on that but to give kind of some general direction and I will note that Cameron told me to inform slash warn you that we will have a standing item on the agenda from here on out to check in with this subcommittee to make sure that what y'all are desiring that it accomplish and be accomplished. So we'll have the opportunity to make sure that we have some follow-up on that. And if I recall we said for the subcommittee the subcommittee would be able to meet here where he's available here at certain times and they wanted to do that. And they could use staff to pull some information. My recollection was more that she would provide resources to help you learn how to research but that she couldn't really invest that time in it. Okay I might be mistaken. I think you're correct in my discussion with her is her role will be more of a higher level guide and pointing the subcommittee to where researchers can be and answering minor questions but largely this will fall on the subcommittee to do the deep dive. That's the fun part. I would love to be on the subcommittee on anything else that's there than that. And John and John? Yeah I don't think you understand how many libraries with six foot ceilings I have been in for days on end and on that note I'll volunteer number three so we'll have the John and John show up. I love it. We have a band coming together. All right so having done that then the question would be for y'all as a committee what are kind of your key high level goals and bearing in mind? I was going to say is everybody okay with that? Oh I was going to say that. Lini do you feel left out? Are you good with that? Oh no darling. I'm just happy as a clown. Me too. For once the men are getting put to bed. I don't think anyone is in opposition of John John and John thank you whatever John John and Sean show. Yes you just had an end. I know it. I like it. Okay so go continue on. May I suggest that we constitute the subcommittee for a fixed time period and at the end we can decide whether to renew or let it dissolve because I feel like especially given the three of us if this is just like open and pure research we'll be still doing it five years from now and get geeking out about it and that does not help the people of the proposed historic district. So what's the standard what's the normal practice for ad hoc committees or subcommittees like this? You can probably put a note in the for Cameron to you know on like a six month check-in because we will have those standing items be like hey this still makes sense to keep doing this. I think that gives you the most flexibility. There's also just from my own experience doing historic research one of the things that we can do to start off with is figure out what the deadlines are for creating it so that way it'll give us an end date. That's kind of what I was going for. So then what we can do is that with that target in mind the idea that that would give us expected completion date for that to be in because I doubt we're going to be able to make 2026 so we need to know what the 2027 deadline is for submitting these new committees. The work that I'm currently doing they usually have them open in either November or in January but I'll have to get Cameron to find out from this particular one. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Sorry so in creating a historic district one of the things that we do is there are deadlines for the Texas Historic Commission for us to create the city one that then they look at right and so just knowing what those deadlines are for whenever we turn those in that gives us an end date. I now know there are deadlines. So that's why well no right so that's why I was like okay so with the end point in mind of a deadline right we can then set up that we're reporting back here monthly but then we can like make library trips we can do ground yeah right so that'll give us an idea of like. And that could even be one thing that you could have planned for your your first check-in next month say hey we're going to have some deadlines for some of the goals that the commission has given us that can be something you report back. So that would be my request is to request a staff that is Cameron to give us directives on what the deadlines are what types of paperwork that we're looking to complete so that gives us then a good publication deadline. That deadline would include mobilizing the community right because it would be done absolutely well. And I certainly would love clarity and this can come from Cameron but it can also come from the committee on exactly what information or resources or whatever that we should be trying to uncover right obviously the CAD has some of the stuff but it doesn't I mean there's going to be huge gaps in it and and so you know part of our goal is going to be to try to figure out when some of these houses were built and all of that but I would love more information or insight into what kind of scope I would also like guidance from Cameron on our ability to bring like not outside people formally onto the subcommittee but you know who we can network with from the community. I remember the last meeting we have those two lovely people speaking about and it seems like that you know if we interface with the neighborhood on a regular basis not only does that build up buzz but you know we'd be able to farm some work off onto them. And that's what I was going to say is there's some resources that you have there's a gentleman at the library that does it and I cannot his name slips me that I can see his face and he loves to do it but he is a great resource on research and things like that for you too and I'll have to give a Cameron to get his name but you can have a meeting with Cameron the three of you could have a meeting and say this is where we're going this is and get that direction too. And when I talked about this with Cameron I guess at that meeting or maybe we talked about it I think we talked about it here but I had mentioned maybe some sort of badge or business card. That was our orientation. Just so that if we're at the library and we're talking to one of the librarians they at least know that this is like actual city business and not necessarily that I want them to devote their life to me but that they might try to be extra. We're actual people not strangers accustomed to the library. We will be working with either Leslie or whoever replaced Chuck. I don't see any reason why we couldn't ask him to join up anyway. Well he might be interested. I'll hit him up in part of the new historic you know beer club or something. So not to interrupt but just to make sure that we're focusing back on kind of if y'all as as a full committee you want to decide what the kind of one or two high level goals I mean I think it's it's probably pretty clear that one of those goals is to begin making connections with the community and begin identifying the resources that you want to look at. Correct. And then probably a long-term goal would be something along the lines of start the process of moving towards national register. State of mind and build a narrative and reach out to the local community with that narrative. Okay good that was item by the way item 4a HLC 25-070 that's okay. Now we're going to move to item 4b number HLC 25-067 to receive a report hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding prioritizing the historic landmarks commission's work plan action for 2026. So work plan many of these things will be things you're familiar with because they are carryovers from last year so I'll focus primarily on the things that will be potentially new. So just to give you a quick overview on what you've accomplished we've had 10 coas received one withdrawn four with tonight's now we've had review and action on four as well as hpo review and action on five so overall nine of ten one withdrawn great action in two historic tax exemptions reviewed and acted on one historic landmark designation reviewed and acted on the creation of the community outreach subcommittee and now we have the creation of subcommittee fourth designation so good job. In addition we've covered 10 special topics and so y'all are one of now one of the best educated historic landmark commissioners very informed. So looking at our new work plan one of those which relates what we've been discussing now is supporting national register of historic place listings for eligible neighborhoods and existing local historic districts that also goes to the work that was done with the southbridge neighborhoods again just wanting to continue to support in a variety of ways our neighborhoods that may be interested in moving in this direction. Ongoing from 2024 that annual study list of potential landmarks and districts so those are the things and I'll just take a step back so going through these to make sure that y'all are in agreement with both what is on the list and what's supposed to be added so be thinking about that if you have any concern otherwise we do but those are as you know at each meeting commissioners have the opportunity to identify properties that they believe should be prioritized because y'all have been on doing doing that. As you are very familiar we do have the tax exemption related items that are currently paused waiting to hear when the budget allows for us to move forward on those. New for 2026 again and it's part of what we were discussing pursuing some new historic conservation districts in portions of the woods and all of the neighborhoods so where there may not necessarily be interest in a full-blown local district sorry local historic district but where a conservation district may be appropriate to have some of those conversations support that and hopefully achieve that. As well as potential historic conservation districts in Weston as well as south of downtown so y'all might be familiar with the Stroud neighborhood that's one that the historic preservation plan recommends maybe talking to raise the conversation whether a conservation district might be appropriate there. One that Cameron specifically added and wanted to kind of get y'all's take on was maintaining an inventory of vacant or deteriorating historic properties that's not something that we have done simply in the past but it's something that staff could spend more time on if there was support from the commission to do so so that bear in mind I'll come back to you on hey do you feel good about that. On going from 2024 completing designation reports landmarks and districts improving visibility and awareness of those existing programs increasing awareness and use of our available federal tax credits improving our historic preservation information materials online which has been ongoing with Cameron and a number of members of our staff marketing our local landmark designation encouraging more people to get involved in that and providing training to local realtors and bankers which you know Cameron has been finding opportunities so questions thoughts particularly on 211 the vacant or deteriorating historic properties yes sir. I like the idea of the list of vacant and deteriorating properties I mean basically it's triage we know what we're most likely to lose soon so if we have the time and resources we can focus our efforts there I mean if we don't we're you know blue city governments and these things happen but and also wanted to say I am also very very strongly in favor of training for bankers and realtors you know I really feel that you know we can leverage the people into allies who have not traditionally always been allies. Sure that was a nice way to say that. I agree. So support for overall including deteriorating yeah and yeah creating yeah you mentioned triage but yeah we I'd like for us to be able to have discussions about prioritizing some of those because well just for example the one that I've been chasing for a while to Mr. Frost is and so even though he's not interested in participating anyway at the same time I feel like that that would be that's something that might be a high priority if we want to have a shot at trying to preserve it. Well with the presentation that we had I think it was in November when they came and they can get different grants and things that people are not really tapping into that as much leveraging maybe some of that too correct for some of these properties I think would be helpful. Well that's kind of what I'm thinking I'm trying to think ahead because not only should we be trying to leverage realtors and other folks in terms of like hey here's some benefits whenever you're selling properties to be aware of. Invite people who have existing properties like hey FYI in case you missed it here's here's some material financial things. The other thing is when you mentioned certain areas for thinking of historic districts and I think I feel like we discussed this so y'all correct me if but I thought we talked about like the North Elm and Locust going there and maybe branching out like around TWU Austin Street and all that has some fabulous homes and architecture there that would be great to branch out. Did we talk about that about once we get this branching out from that we did? I feel like we did yeah. We talked about that as a possibility to me it makes a lot of sense because when we looked at that map of historic buildings it was like why are we you know just cutting right through the middle. This was part of our discussion about forming a subcommittee actually is because hey let's look at this narrow lane and see what the minimum get is. I mean let's set as realistic a smaller goal as possible with the idea of it also possibly expanding it if possible. Okay that's what I thought so I like that. So anything on the list where you're like no that should not be what we're working on. I wonder if we might develop some a page or two maybe up to four to talk about the the advantages of the categories like a historic district or other preservation. Yes because I've definitely seen she's had some things like that and I wonder if that starts to fall under the realm of having a marketing plan for encouraging additional local landmark designations to also kind of have a broader. Because I think we need factual information that's not too complicated not too extensive but just some basics because when an organization gets started sometimes a person is too anxious to get it done and they don't check the facts and they mislead people and that's very bad then when you have to go back and say I mean you've had all these people's expressed an interest because it might do this for me and then you have to tell well that's not exactly yes yes and I think you didn't overlap that making sure because I think we want to make sure y'all were also equipped with some sheets that had that we started reviewing some materials for that kind of thing yeah yes and I think that is the idea so yeah absolutely I think we need to continue moving on that because you're right misinformation immediately creates and and once you get missus information and you say well they lied yeah then your son yeah yeah yeah I think time to overcome that new generation okay this is good okay I know I've heard I think we have consensus that I can share with them that we are good with the work plan yes probably okay all right we're ready to move on yes ma'am all right we are moving now over to hlc 25-065 is to hold a discussion and give staff direction on the historic flame art commission's request for local historic designation and eligible historic properties anyone have any one degree for besides mr frosty's we've had him on there and I suppose we never heard anything from that other piece of property this the piece with the dead cow I was wondering about that that's right so you weren't here for that maybe I don't you might have been absent as well um yeah basically by order of the property yes oh okay so they found the owner no oh the people that they didn't get a hold of that would go between is that you get lost we're not interested kind of thing situation so okay we'll get an update because I asked for I'd ask for an update if there was a follow-up besides the weather she talked about a phone call anyway um yeah we'll get that I wonder because I'm and I've mentioned this a couple of times but I did today about some of the homes the properties that are on the same street at the back side of twu it's on the other side of austin street I can't remember what the name of that street is but I don't know if we have a map that can tell us if those properties are owned by twu or if they're individually owned because there's east side and no I think it's the west side oh the west side the west side you know where austin street is right so you have um it's that side oh that's the west side oh it is the west side I'm back I'm sorry it is the west side definitely information we can get for you if that's there is there's some structures that have the architect and you don't really notice it when I'm walking I noticed it and they're just gorgeous and I think you know I wonder if that was original but when they did twu because some of the architecture looks very similar like if that was back in a teach ridge that they had or maybe a small dorm that they had but there's some really cool things over there so that's why I'm interested in branching out after we do those but those are the properties that come to my mind so that is on the west the west side there's a cul-de-sac right two doors down from me uh off an archer trail that have a handful of houses that are all super like mid-century stuff that uh I wouldn't mind trying to figure out make sure they qualify you said that cul-de-sac off archer trail yeah I can't think of the name of it it's like two percent for me so I'm trying to remember they did a historic circle patricks live uh in one of those houses the architect yeah we can pull up some of the whole historic space later okay are those mountain miller houses because I know there are some of those over there who is that mount miller houses I'm not sure I don't know much I don't know anything like the history of them I mean let me I'll find them just so we have that'd be Allen Adale circle yeah got it yeah perfect Allen Adale circle oh is that what you were saying no no okay all right you have it on the screen Allen not that magic oh you lived on that trail I knew that I know that house that belonged to them but it would be 115 and 111 for sure maybe the one right next one all right we're moving on to hlc 25-066 all the discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project matrix okay so we have further discussion regarding historical merit warrant action the hlc pursuing preservation of the former entry wall at part playstation discussion of the approximate cost to preserve the entry wall that discussion is scheduled for february oh that's for february yes okay uh creation of subcommittees potential creation of new historic district on north locust street north elm street uh we had that it was created so you were up to speed nice just that hlc faq and historic processes document which commissioner mcgow is mentioned and that is ongoing they're working on this document a discussion of creation of possible historic designation for north locust street north elm street corridors again that is ongoing and we've made some progress tonight by creating a sub committee to assist and we're gonna have check-ins at every meeting yes we will have a standing standing check in on there no need to put it on yes we will be checking in on that then continue researching new or updated programming to incentivize historic preservation which that is camera and that is on the building and then annual update preparing the annual study of this potential landmarks and districts that is a goal that is continuing that is ongoing and we potentially added some additional properties tonight for the questions for additions only question i go ahead go ahead um on the subcommittee they're allowed to call and ask us questions correct we're not going to meet with them but if they had a question i mean each that group i think if one member of the committee calls one member of hlc and then they don't talk otherwise i'm okay so okay so commissioner treat is going to interview ask you some questions commissioner treat is going to go and report back to his subcommittee members that's fine commissioner treat is not going to report back to hlc as a whole no no no you're okay okay that's fine okay so um i would like to uh make a motion for new item to include other metrics matrix as you may remember last time uh cameron gave a report about the south ridge historical resources uh survey um and the presentation of san xin elementary and part of that was the survey was a discovery of the remnants of sign yeah um basically one of the original like lots for sale signs for the subdivision like mid-60s um i went out there and uh took a look for the sign myself um after talking to the property owner because you know it's texas and you know yeah um so uh the sign has it's beautiful what has one of the earliest maps of the lot subdivision the street names things like that but it is also to my untrained eye in incredibly poor shape like if it was visited 20 years ago i'm not sure that would be soon enough but uh i would like to ask if it is possible for someone from the staff who actually does know what they're doing to go out take a look at it see if there's any sort of preservation triage that can be done and if not determine if there's any information that needs to be captured off the sign before it gets integrated completely oh and also the uh the property owner who's the professor at uofd law school um mentions that uh they are thinking about developing that property sometime this year so there is i mean not a not a countdown clock but a ticking clock no that sign is technically theirs do you get a sense of how they feel about that sign um as per my conversation with him he is explicitly willing to donate it to a uh okay yeah okay so we have a motion by commissioner black we have a second to add it to the matrix second okay all in favor nice any other business to discuss okay uh i guess maybe for council uh the subcommittee um i just want to make sure i understand that it's only three people so it's not a quorum so we can meet anytime we want to we can talk about anything we want to correct as long as we're not also talking to the rest of the committee correct okay we would be the users to get done email addresses for communication with so i would really enjoy that okay okay that would be great okay thank you okay carly you have an item i do have a concluding item this is my last meeting with all of you i accepted a new position as the national sales manager for discovered it and i'm very excited right now because um this was my favorite award but that will be a really great hand vanessa who is here tonight you might be taking over or cathy wellborn who is way more experienced than me anyways and who covered it when lacy left for those of you who were sticking through so but i did want to let you know thank you all for having me for the last year good luck glad you're sticking around trying to all right anything else All right we're adjourned.