Nov 12, 2019 Mobility Committee on 2019-11-12 9:00 AM

>> Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Mobility Committee in the city of Denton. It's 9 AM, we have a quorum present, so dive into the agenda. Items for individual consideration, item A is consider approval of the meeting minutes of October 8th. >> Aye. >> All in favor? >> Aye. >> All in favor? >> Aye. >> All right, minutes are approved. Item B, receive an updated report and hold the discussion regarding the North Central Texas Council of Governments Policy Bundle Program. >> Good morning everybody. I'm Haley Salazar and I'm with the Traffic Engineering Department at the City of Denton, and, let's see. >> If you could have a view. >> View. Thank you. So I'm here today for the purpose of providing an update to our policy bundle initiatives. So just some background on what the policy bundle is. It's a list of policies that we can adopt. So it is voluntary, and the intent is it's part of Mobility 2045. And these are, like I said, they're voluntary policies, but they're strategic initiatives we can adopt that are complementary to the actual build out of infrastructure. And if we adopt half or more of these, we receive an offset of funds. So these funds are not cash in hand, they are called TDCs, or Transportation Development Credits, and a credit is $1 million. We found in August that we satisfied 15 of the 20 initiatives, so we received 0.75 credits, or $750,000 to use towards qualifying projects. Just a note on the TDCs, it's population based in terms of the size of the award. So had we have satisfied all 20 or just 10, it still would have been $750,000. So here are some of the initiatives that we satisfied that earned us the credits. So we've got clean fleet, niling restrictions in our air quality, storm water management, safe access to schools, and so on. So these are ones that we were already doing as a city. But being proactive, we wanted to take a look at the initiatives that we did not achieve to qualify for these credits. And we took a look at these initiatives, and wrong way driving and taking actions to reduce wrong way driving stood out as the most pertinent to move forward and investigate. And that's because we have a lot of corridors along I-35, Loop 288, and then streets within the city of Denton where we've got one way streets. And while wrong way driving only makes up, the crashes only make up less than 10% of all crashes, it's got the highest fatality rate out of all crashes. So we wanted to take this seriously and dive in and see what we could do here in Denton. And so what we're going to need to do is work with the COG staff and RTC to implement the strategies. We want to work with them because they've already implemented in 2014 strategies in Dallas County as a phase one. And then phase two, they implemented strategies in Tarrant County. And during that time, Carrollton as part of Denton County and part of Collin Counties also adopted some of these strategies to move forward and reduce wrong way driving. In their area. So this is a safety program and the type will be joint staff coordination. And what that means is we're going to want to look at our corridors first. And so that's a partnership with TxDOT. So the next steps, we're going to locate all of our one way roads. And luckily, we have a very up to date GIS system. So it'll be a quick poll of all of the one way streets in GIS. And we're going to take those and look at our existing crash data and wrong way driving data statistics. And if necessary, we'll take that and do some studies to provide any supplementary information we need to go ahead and make recommendations to the group. And that's it. Do we have any questions? >> Councilman Briggs. >> No, just a comment because I'm glad to see the transit and I know that we have transit in there already and air quality. But since we have someone from DCTA, I just want to go ahead and say that those things are very important for us here in the city and that the more cars that we can reduce in our city and the more transit and buses we can add, the better it will be. >> So we can definitely look at strategies that align with that, as well. >> So I live on West Oak Street, which is one way, paired with Hickory. And even within the last week, I had to hunk somebody down who was bearing directly at me. And with the number of one-way streets we have, I'm sure we'll benefit from any attention on this issue. But I wonder if you wouldn't mind going back to the list of the other NCT cog ideas. >> Sure. >> Two slides back. >> The ones we did or did not? >> Have not yet done. >> Okay. >> And again, I totally understand that these are essentially just ideas for us. But they're considered ideas, and I'm happy if we can derive a useful inspiration from them. I note that a couple of them, three of them might dovetail well with the sustainability plan. And I wonder what your thoughts are. I mean, have you looked at these and said, wrong way driving, let's do that next? Or wrong way driving, that's it. Or do you think there's some opportunity on the others as well, and particularly the first three? I guess that would be my question. >> So based on previous discussions that we've had on this particular item, our goal is to move slowly forward, taking one piece at a time. So definitely we won't be overlooking or we won't be stopping at the wrong way driving. We'll move forward and then slowly, I think the roadways part, I can totally see that being part of our mobility plan, moving short. That we recommend to bleed street cross-sections for all our street arterial roadway systems. And then sustainability, definitely we are moving forward. I think land use strategy is in parking management more on the development side. But we're working closely with them for the land use plan. And that dovetails into our mobility plan, yes. So our ultimate goal is to have all of these somehow getting as close as we can. And understanding that some of them may not be achievable, just getting diving deeper into that. But we'll try and hit all of them as much as we can, one at a time. >> Before I close, Council Member Briggs, I just suggest that you share those first three, whatever we have on them with the folks who are working on the sustainability plan. Maybe if you could parallel path, Council Member Briggs? >> Yeah, I was just going to reiterate the same thing. I mean, as we're working on the sustainability plan, I mentioned mobility. That we were working on certain things as well. So just to make sure that that communication between departments is there. As we set our goals on air quality and what we can do there. And sustainable development, that's an aspect of it. And I know you mentioned that that's development services. But we also are working on our new codes and updating that as well. And so if there's a way to slip that in the conversation sooner than later, it would be great. Especially parking management. >> This is actually the perfect time -- oh, I'm sorry. >> I was just going to say, I don't think Pre-Tem was alluding to or Haley that we're not working with those other departments. We totally agree with what you're saying. I think this was just absolutely a attempt at what's a quick plan immediately. What can we jump into? The others absolutely require a lot of collaboration. And should definitely not something that we're not putting on the back burner. It's just what can we do immediately, very quickly. And then these other initiatives, we start working with our partners to make sure that happens. >> Just quickly, exactly, sorry. >> Well, yeah, I just -- you said very quickly. But what we're doing now is we're working on our sustainability plans coming very quickly as well. So that's why I just brought it up. >> So for our mobility plan, what we've done is gone through the land use data with the planning and development department. So we've combed through everything that's possible. What is the zoning? What is the future land use? They're working on their land use map. So all of that is being incorporated into our mobility. So yes, there's a lot of coordination going on and we're talking about all these items. It's just a matter of bringing them forward in this context. That's what is -- that will happen slowly. >> Yeah, I don't think you should hear any criticism in this or -- >> No, we don't. >> Yeah, I mean, it's -- it might be as simple as giving them the opportunity to put it in their plan as it's planned. >> Absolutely. >> Just get on the radar. >> No, that's very good thoughts. So we'll make sure that happens. >> And this is the perfect time to have this conversation because we're actually ramping up for round three. So even though we just received notification that we met the initiatives in August and got that -- the 750,000 come December is when we're going to start planning to see what we can do to apply again for the next year for subsequent funding. So we'll absolutely look at all the initiatives again and reach out to the other departments and see, you know, what's changed since we've done this exercise last year. So -- >> And to not only just sort of glance right over that, yay, congratulations. >> Yeah, it's a clear guess. Great job. >> Thanks. >> All right, then, we're done with that, thank you so much. Have you presented before? >> I did not mobility. >> Well, welcome and congratulations on your first presentation of mobility. >> Well, thank you, I appreciate it. >> All right, we'll move on to item C, receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff input regarding the city bike share program, ridership statistics and program oversight. >> Good morning, Mark Oliphant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the City. Today, I'm going to give an update about the bike share program, just a little background about it and what's going on with it currently. So the program in its current form began a little over a year ago, August 2018, and it was a pilot program at first but was approved permanently in May of 2019. We have one permitted provider currently, it's a company called Veyoride, and they are working both with the city and with UNT, so we have a fleet of up to 500 bicycles permitted in the city, 100 within the general city limits, and 400 on UNT, and Veyoride has a direct agreement with UNT as well, so it's kind of a three-way relationship. So, great news, since last year, since this time last year, we have had an explosion in ridership, which from my perspective is really a wonderful thing. Now, sometimes that comes with some collateral issues, which we'll talk about a little bit, but overall, this is really a wonderful thing. Veyoride did a great deal of outreach during the summer months to the incoming freshman class, I don't know what they call it, not indoctrination, but something like that, where they come in and they teach them all about college life, and so they went, met with all these groups, told them about how it works, got them signed up for the app and so forth, so that's a wonderful thing. There have also been some other changes, so there was a fleet coordinator based here in Denton, that was Sonia Vasquez, I think some of us are familiar with, she did a really great job, but they had a change in their leadership, I think in late June, Sonia went to a different job, and they hired someone else, but this person has a slightly different title and responsibilities, so she was a fleet coordinator, and now we have a full-time fleet technician, and there is a difference in the responsibilities there, where Sonia was more of a manager, a big picture, had big picture responsibilities, and this new person has more focus on repair, rebalancing, and things like that, so there have been some changes. Within our ordinance, oh yeah. >> Yeah, you may have just adopted and saying that, but within our ordinance, do we have a distinction between who's supposed to be on staff and who isn't? >> No, we just say there needs to be staff members based in Denton, that's the only requirement, yeah. And also, so within the ordinance, we do have the ability to levy penalties if they're not complying with the requirements. So far, we haven't done that, that has been my call, I feel like they've been good to work with, and I've gotten good responses and so forth, but we are due to this huge increase in ridership, I am coordinating with UNT to deal with this higher volume of ridership, because we did get a number of different complaints at the beginning of the semester, I think due to a number of different factors, all of the new riders, unfamiliarity with how it works and so forth, so we've been working on training users where and how to park correctly, doing some of those sorts of things. Let me just show you, so here is the chart, this shows ridership over the last year, I think essentially since service started here in Denton, and that Mount Everest on the right there is the ridership that we have had over the last, basically August and September when school started. I do have this, I exported this maybe three weeks ago when we were preparing for this, and I will show you this, I, sorry, I exported this literally this morning, so you can see we have the huge spike but we are having a drop off a little bit in ridership generally, I think this is probably due to weather, and maybe the novelty wore off or something, so that is the very latest sort of ridership, but we are still way ahead, we are still double of where we were last year, which to me is a great thing. >> I'll just comment, in packaged goods that would be a typical trial and repeat curve. >> Trial and repeat? >> Yeah, people try and something new and then a certain percent of them repeat. >> Okay. >> You know, so not everybody decided it was, you know, great to be frequently, might settle out, you know, some of the flow would be. >> Yeah, and it looks like it will settle out higher than it used to be, which I think is a positive. Just some quick maps here, so this is showing where generally the bikes are dropped off, this was as of a couple weeks ago when we prepared all the materials, very highly concentrated on UNT, this is general ride path areas, again very highly concentrated on UNT, there are definitely other paths, but I think it is so heavily used on UNT, such a high percentage of the ridership is at UNT that it sort of, it makes the outside ridership not appear with, you know, the way the software is set up. So, just a little discussion, we, when we got the complaint at the beginning of the semester, we communicated with the company, brought it to their attention, this was brought up at the October Committee on Persons with Disabilities meeting and we had our local representative come and address the committee, talk about some of this, I think it was good on both ends for the committee to learn about what exactly is bike share, but also for him to see that if a right of way, if a sidewalk or something is blocked, that can be a major hindrance for someone using mobility device or something like that. So, I think it helped to underline, to make that contact. Some other things coming up, here at the bottom, so there's both a general like 24-hour Vail Ride contact, but then we also, our local contact, Tim Courtney, is absolutely available and hears his, you know, direct contact information. When we hear from people, we don't send them to Vail Ride. I received the complaint and communicated directly to them. >> Council Member Rich, do you have a question? >> Yeah. So, Tim Courtney, does he live in Denton? >> Yep. >> Okay. And so, when he receives the complaint, he specifically goes and moves the bike? >> Well, he's the lead, but they have several other rebalancers, I guess fleet rebalancers. So, it would depend who's on duty at that time or who's closest to that location. They use both people on foot or on bikes to move bikes and then they have like a van, it's like a Ford Transit van that they move around with. My feedback would just be that I'm really glad that the bikes are being used. I think it's fantastic that ridership is up, but I also think that we have an ordinance and a place so that we can hold up our end of the bargain to make sure that the bikes stay out of the right way. And so, I just, I want to make sure that if they aren't doing their job, that we are still enforcing it and we're doing ours. That would just be my only comment. I think these bikes are really great to have in the city. But I also saw three of them yesterday on sidewalks blocking them. So, and that was just yesterday. So, I would like to make sure that we're doing our 24 hours, that we are making them stay true to what they said they would do. And that if, I remember during the conversation there was something about geo-fencing. So, if the bike isn't in a correct location, is the rider still being charged? Is that part of what's going on or was that part of the conversation on geo-fencing? >> I know geo-fencing is part of it. I don't know specifically about whether they're still charged. I thought the bike started making a noise when they went out of the service area. So, I don't know if it's, if it is a parking thing. >> Yeah, if we could just find out more about that. >> Yeah. >> Because that was my understanding was that if the bike wasn't in a correct location, then it wouldn't take off or something like that. So, I could be wrong. >> A couple things I will add also. This Thursday, we are having a meeting with the regional Bay of Rides managers out of Austin, I believe, myself, and UNT to talk about some of these issues since we're having such higher ridership. What they were doing last year isn't going to cut it for this year. And make sure that we are communicating that need. And I will communicate that to him as well. I have seen they're working on an educational video. About correct parking. I've seen a version of that. Also, their app, they are adding a feature for employees to be able to report violations directly in the app. And communicate directly to the last person who parked it. Yeah, so those are upcoming efforts with Bay of Rides. >> That's seven out of seven. Let's wait until the next page. Usually there's one that says questions. [ Laughter ] That issue is the key issue is making sure to keep them off the sidewalks. I imagine you saw the social media post the other day that on Hector Street where three mysteriously appeared in front of, not that a seven-year-old person couldn't ride, but the constituents in that age group, three bikes appeared on our sidewalk at night, mysteriously. They were gone the next day. No one knows why they were there. But, yeah, I'm sure that's what we're going to do. Thank you. Ready? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> Yeah, okay. Let's move on to item D, receiver report and hold the discussion about the updates from the Devin County Transportation Authority. >> Good morning. >> attorney champion. >> Freezing cold morning. I'm Nicole Rucker. I'm the vice president of marketing and administration at DCTA. And I'm going to provide some updates. I will, in full transparency, say that as we get toward the holidays, things slow down just a little bit. So I will not have as many updates as I normally do. But I did just receive word. And Troy, if I mess this up, speak up. But yesterday we opened up some ADA infrastructure on McKinney East of Woodrow right in front of the fountains and the veranda. So I know that that had been a topic of conversation in the past. There are a lot of individuals that live there that need ADA requirements. And that infrastructure was not in place, but as of yesterday it is now. So hopefully we'll see improved ridership there as well as fewer complaints coming from those individuals that needed access to a service. So our big focus right now are really service changes. We typically do service changes twice a year. We, right now, are kind of looking at a phased approach. So the first area that we're really looking at are the Denton Connect routes on Bonnie Bray in conjunction with the construction completion. So I know that construction is slated for completion at the end of January. So we are doing what we need to do right now to kind of revert back to an old iteration of service that was really successful but that we had to move because of the construction. So we are preparing internally for what that iteration looks like and how we're going to communicate it so that as soon as we get the green light from the city that the construction is complete and that we can automatically communicate with customers that service has now been rerouted back to Bonnie Bray. So we just want to be cognizant of any timelines, any construction timelines and make sure that we're not out there saying we're going to revert service on this day simply because we know that with weather and some of the unknowns that we need to be a little bit flexible with that communication. So what route is that on Bonnie Bray? >> Impacts Route 7 and also Discovery Park for UNT. >> Okay. >> So will it go through the roundabout? I had the impression that that bus is going to be able to make it through that. >> No, our hope is that they can. We're going to find out today. They've got some temporary lanes open. >> We're talking about Bonnie Bray and Scripture. It was designed for buses, for fire trucks, for waste. They can make it through. >> Okay. >> It's just we had asked DCTA not to go through while we were during construction until we had it open in all directions. >> Sure. What is contemplated as far as providing service to the new development in Razor Ranch realizing that it's not there now, it's partly there, but it's supposed to be. >> I feel like Troy needs a chair. For those of you who have not heard of Troy Rowley, he's our Vice President of Bus -- I just gave you a promotion. >> Hey. >> Director of Bus Operations and Maintenance. So he is the one that knows those routes inside and out, knows every single stop. And so I defer to the subject matter expert. >> Well, thank you. What we need on the Razor Ranch development -- right now it's all privately held. It needs to be public. The streets need to be in front of the city before we can actually drive on them. >> Sure. >> So once that takes place, then we can start planning on putting some sort of service in that area. Currently we don't service the north side because Wal-Mart does not want us on their property. Because it's the damage to the lot, I think, is our concern and the traffic. So we stay on university. Now on the Razor on the south side, we can put service in there, but we really need it to be a public street. >> It would need to be public to plan it, right? I mean, you must be thinking about it. >> Yeah, we're thinking about it. We have plans. >> Oh, okay. But we really have to have -- we have to have some infrastructure put on there, traffic lights, and also it has to be a public street. >> It's my understanding that we had that conversation a while ago and there are some public streets on there already, that there were still some that weren't, but there's some that have. >> In the Razor Ranch development? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> So Heritage Trail, it's a public roadway. Portions of it just have not been constructed or accepted. And then when the, for example, portion of the scripture, the culture of the interstate have been constructed. And then there are the connections between the body and brain have not been constructed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This one, friends, is the beauty of having this committee to make these connections. >> What you have to understand is we need heritage to run all the way through. >> We completely understand that they are constructing that. >> And they have also, so the construction of Heritage Trail right now, there's about 300 or 400 feet where construction was not performed. Well, they actually had to make it out twice as it was developed in early cracking. So we're going through a period right now where they're correcting that before we can even open that piece up and then just to the south of that, punching it all the way through scripture, that's still the New York First Amendment to do, and he has not completed that yet. >> So would you mind sharing what your, you know, preliminary thoughts are about once the roads actually are functioning and the gear is in place, but you know, how you might wrap through it? >> Well, right now, actually, we have someone, a consultant that's looking at all that. So it'd be premature to say that obviously we need to put some sort of transfer point in there because we have several things that connect in that area. And it'd be ideal to serve it because we all, you know, there's a lot of service type jobs in that area that do use our service. We realize the need that's there. So we just have to look at it and see how we can get a 30, 35 foot bus in and out of there and with traffic patterns. >> And we do meet routinely with the city to make sure that we're up to date on construction that's happening so that we know when we're getting closer to the point where we can pull the trigger on saying, "Here are some proposed options." So we kind of coordinate our service modeling in conjunction with our work with the city. >> And there's a signal plan for university and heritage trail. We're still waiting on the final approval from TxDOT at the moment. >> I think it's under, it's under design. >> Is that okay? >> I just, all right. >> So, and we were going through that process of getting them to actually warrant a signal before it was deemed warranted based on proposed volumes of text. That doesn't like to do, but they, somehow they get talked into by our, which is awesome. And then I'll have to get with you guys on what traffic control is actually planned for scripture and the other end of the area. >> Heritage trail and scripture, yeah. [ Inaudible ] >> But I would say that Razor Ranch is very high on our, on our list of areas that need to be served. It's a weekly conversation, at least in the conversations I'm in. So, you know, we are very well aware that there's a need, not only for those needing employment, but also just for those who want to get around and shop or go grocery shopping or, so it's an indefinite area of focus for us. >> That's where the land is in question. >> Yeah. >> You mentioned, I thought I heard you say you weren't going to move service back on the body break until after the first of the year. >> Once the construction is complete, because the city has asked for us to not operate the bus until that construction is 100%. >> And my understanding was when we had the temporary road is what we didn't want. But now that the roundabout is open, it's open in all four directions. I mean, if you need to have two lanes open to get a bus through, then it's not properly designed. I mean, we've got one lane going through on the roundabout. If you're voting. >> No, they can go through it now. We just wanted to move off of it when we were still under construction and didn't have all lanes open in each direction. >> So they should be able to move up back to chronic right now, as opposed to waiting until after the first. >> Correct. >> So they don't have to wait until the beginning of the year, is what you're saying. >> Right. Now that it's open in all directions. >> Goodness. >> Yeah, so I believe that there was a discussion that happened yesterday. >> Early this morning, so. >> Yeah, so I've talked to Troy and I offered that we meet, our project manager can meet them and then they can drive a bus and see if there are any barrel moving or any changes that they think that are needed. Because we have enough buffer in that area that we can adjust if they think that their buses cannot make it through. And then, yes, they can start that. >> Because currently, you have an unrestricted pattern, right? So the issues with the temporary lanes right now, so. >> Okay, so it'd be nice to do the middle of your update. >> So you were doing that, running that test run? >> Yes. >> Okay, so it looks like we will have an update based on the test run. And then I can e-mail, I can e-mail Mario or Preetam can e-mail the committee and let you know what the update is. >> Great. >> See how quickly we move? >> Yeah. >> I mean, just in the last 12 hours. >> Like water. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, we paused you on that item. >> It's okay. >> Do you have some more you want to share? >> Sure, yeah, absolutely. So we do offer some on-demand service in the Denton Enterprise area. We call it the Denton Enterprise Airport Zone. We've been running that service for about a year and a half. We've been looking at, do we potentially modify the service? Or do we remove the service in totality? And the recommendation that we are taking to our board in early December is that we are going to be removing that service as a whole. We have very low ridership on that service. We've been keeping our board apprised of that issue and some of the modifications that might be made. And the final recommendation is to go ahead and just remove that service in completion. >> What about, like, there's Peterbilt, there's the Target Distribution Center, there's Tetra Pak, there's a lot of other places out there. Is there another bus stop or in there? Because it's very important that we see transportation as a basic service to get people to their jobs. >> Absolutely. So the one really unique thing about that area is that, because it is very well defined, we have great working relationships with all of the businesses in that area. And so we have been, myself included, multiple times to those businesses to say, how can we best offer transportation services? What are your employees needing from transportation services? A lot of those organizations out there provide their own transportation service. So whether it's a van or, most of them are like a 10 to like a 15 person passenger van. And so the consensus has been that they don't need the transportation in that area. We currently have three people using the service. And they're using it consistently. And so we are working with those three individuals to come up with another modification for them, in order for them to still use transit to get to work. But we're running a fairly expensive service for three individuals. It's not the best use of funding. And we feel like we're confident that there are other ways that we can get those individuals to work. I will continue to reach out to those businesses and maintain those relationships. And should something change? I mean, the whole reason that we were able to launch this pilot service was because there was interest from businesses. And so we're pretty responsive as far as if there's a big group of people that need to use transit to get out there. We're willing to be flexible and nimble to kind of put service out there. But thus far, it has not been as successful as what we had anticipated. So are you confident that it will be around the same price? You said you're confident you can find other services for them to get them to work. We believe that to move those three people is going to be significantly cheaper. So we've got some great partnerships with Lyft, where we can actually subsidize a Lyft trip for someone. And so rather than us doing that first loss mile connection, Lyft can provide that service. And it is significantly less expensive. And maybe that's another kind of tool in our tool belt that we utilize to determine what gets people to and from where they need to go in that specific area. Versus us putting an operator in a bus out there to rent service that's not being utilized. But I will continue those relationships. We'll continue those conversations. And again, if there's a need, we really do our best to be as responsive as we possibly can. And certainly, if any of you hear of anything from any of those businesses out in that area, please let me know. Because I always try to stay as engaged as possible with them. Because we like to be offering more service out there. But we need folks to utilize it. So that recommendation will be going to our board next month. The plan is to kind of pull that service in early February. Obviously, making sure that those who do currently use that system are taken care of and have a plan that it does not interrupt how they are getting to and from where they need to go. And then the last kind of service change that we are looking at, and I mentioned last month, is through our transformation initiative. And so we are coordinating with some external vendors to kind of look at our entire service area as a whole. And looking at it almost like from scratch. So not looking at our existing service, but really more looking at the landscape of our service area. And what type of service offerings would be the most beneficial to provide. One that would get folks where they need to go. But also would show an increase in ridership. And so we are pretty excited about that. We are looking to bring a consultant, a recommendation for a consultant to our board. My hope is in the first quarter of 2020, originally we were slated for January. But we were having some conversations with our three member cities about that scope of work. And so making some modifications, and so it may be pushed to February that we would be bringing that consultant to our board for approval. But then that conversation is really going to help inform topics that we talk a lot about here. So like our service standards. So what warrants a bench at a bus stop? What warrants a shelter at a bus stop? What do we do with all of the existing bus stop amenities that we have or that currently aren't being used? How do we utilize those to the best of our ability to provide those amenities to our riders? So we're really excited about this project. Because we think that it will kind of revolutionize not only the service that we provide. But also kind of the standards at which we provide that service. So we're very excited about that. And then just an update that yesterday we did kick off the inclement weather shuttle that we operate in conjunction with the city of Denton. And so anytime the temperature either goes above a certain degree or below a certain degree, we work very closely with the city to implement shuttles to get individuals to shelters. And so we communicate that out to not only the Denton social service agencies, but also the Louisville social service agencies. Because the capacity is so limited in Louisville that a lot of times they send their folks northbound to Denton since Denton has more beds available. And so we did launch that inclement shuttle last night and then obviously this morning to get people back to where they need. But we're working very closely with the city because we have some cold nights coming that we want to make sure that we're providing that human service as well and making sure that people are staying warm. How did it go? Did people find their way to the buses? They typically do. I mean this is I think the fourth time that we've launched the shuttle. We have a really good network of communication that as soon as the city says yes we need it, that we work with Monsignor King and Serve Denton and Salvation Army to determine kind of openings available. And then we send that out to all the social service agencies and then they communicate to their folks. I don't know if we have any ridership numbers. Do you have any? I don't have any. You don't want some of this? Okay. But we can, I can follow up. Sure. We'll be running the services again tonight. Thank you. Yeah, so we'll follow up with ridership just to let you know. So that's been a pretty successful partnership. It's been so successful that we're actually looking at doing it with the city of Louisville as well. So it's kind of served as a model for this type of service. And then just the fun news. Denton Holiday Lighting is coming up in Wasslefest. So December 6th and we're providing free service with the code word either Holiday Express or Denton County Friends of the Family Holiday Express or any variation thereof. So just trying to get people. It's a really big weekend in Denton. So you have the Holiday Lighting, you have Wasslefest and then the following day on the 7th you have the Holiday Express event that we partner with the Denton County Friends of the Family on. And so just really encouraging folks to use transit. We had banner numbers last year for the Holiday Lighting, encouraging people to park at our Med Park station, use the train to get in. So we're really hoping for a repeat this year. So we're working very closely with the committee for that event to just get people into downtown and use transit to get there. I hear there may even be an ice skating rink this year. Oh, well that's exciting. Hopefully it's not actually at the streets. Yeah, so that concludes my report. If there are any questions or topics I can get some answers for and give back to the committee. I'm happy to do so. Yeah, I just have a question because we're talking about all the growth out west with Hillwood. That's exactly what I was going to ask. Yeah, and Alliance. I mean, are we talking about the consultant and planning? Is that on your radar? I mean, because we have an opportunity now to start planning that so we're not doing it after the fact. Yes, so we've actually been working with the Alliance area for probably the last two years. We offered a service out there last year. The issue with Alliance is that we have a reciprocal agreement with our regional transit partners and one half of Alliance is Tarrant County and one half of Alliance is Denton County. And so it makes it really difficult to provide service to the entire area because Trinity Metro provides the service that's for the Tarrant County portion. So currently, we were joint partners in providing a service out there last year. It was well used, but it was very expensive. And so Trinity Metro took over the partnership and offers what they call zip zone service. It's through Lyft and they leverage our interlocal agreement with Lyft to provide that service and it provides that first class mile connection and connects people to North Texas Express, which is a partnership bus service that runs from Denton to downtown Fort Worth that we partner with Trinity Metro on. So we are currently serving that area, but the actual service that's kind of happening in the zone where all of those businesses are located is managed by Trinity Metro through their zip zone service. But Alliance is the topic. Another topic is the coal hunter ranch development that we're going to be asked to deal with in the coming months. And I'm curious if you've had preliminary conversations with the Hillwood people if there's any thoughts about how to integrate public transportation in that whole thing. It's going to add close to 40% to our population if it goes according to plan. It'll be about the size of Denton. Okay. We have a representative from Hillwood on our board. So let me circle back because I have not been in any of those meetings or discussions, but that does not mean that they're not happening. I am sure that our planning folks are very... I know they meet with Hillwood regularly, but I don't have any details to share. But let me follow up and find out what's going on and I'll include that in my recap that I sent to the group for sure. Thank you so much for coming and filling us in. Absolutely. And if there are any topics that this group would like to discuss moving forward, feel free to let Becky know or she can contact me and let me know what you guys want to talk about. Or if you want an actual physical presentation of anything, we're happy to customize whatever you need. Happy forward comments if you want to follow them through me as well. Thanks. Thank you. Let's move on to item E, receiver of work. And hold the discussion regarding TxDOT on system projects in the Denton area. $2.4 billion, every way in and out of Denton. Under construction. There you go. It's frustrating when you get... When I get caught in traffic and I know there's no hope, because I hope we're all the problem. But the good news is there is significant improvements being made throughout the city of Denton. $2.3 billion, sorry I overstated it. $2.2 billion. Well, $2.8 billion. $2.8 billion. You always go up with these numbers, unless you're having to pay for it and go down. All right, so first off, like I said, we send these reports out about two weeks in advance coming here today. So the NOVA... Did I do that? What? That happens to me too. Ghost? No, you have not. Oh yeah, that was happening to me the other day. Yep. So. It's not an actual like pre-Tem program that happens. The November 11th start date is actually now November 25th. We had another conversation with them and they said it would not be the 11th. It was yesterday. It'll be the 25th. So when we resubmit the report, we'll update that. But Zachary's on. And we'll update the full schedule once we get a better schedule from Zachary on what their timing is. They were awarded back full 500 plus days of the original contract. So we're starting from scratch. 550 working days assumes how many days a week? This is a six day contract, six days a week contract. But it also, it's 588 without, that's one of the negotiations we have without weather delays. So. Okay. Do the math. I don't know. Just wait a couple of years. Yeah, at least. So what I normally do is when they give us the schedule, they tell us how long they're going to be having the barricades up and that's how long they think it will take them. And we just look at that date and give it to you. That's what I'll do when I update the report when I get it. We don't have the full schedule yet. But two years-ish. Yeah. 1.8 years. How many? 1.8 years. Well, 2 and a half. With weather. I'm going to go with they don't get weather days. They don't get weather? They don't get weather days. Oh, oh, oh, okay. So you said that November 25th is the date that they're going to actually physically be out there starting to work? Yes, but the contract told them that their time started being charged October 12th, I think, was the date. So they're already into their time, but they won't be mobilized until the 25th, which is what they agreed to when Berkshire Hathaway executed the agreement. All right, and then your Fort Worth Drive project. The bridge closure occurred for the railroad. My notes are over there, so I'm having to do this from memory. So we're wrong. I apologize. And the demo for the existing bridge will begin on the night of the 15th, and there'll be some closure between 18th and 25th, through 18th to 25th for this demolition project. So we'll get that too. I think the mobility meeting is this week for our mobility task force. Yeah, it's Thursday. And so we'll have - why are you doing that? I'm not doing anything. It just happens. So we'll have the actual - excuse me? It's when pre-tem blinks. It's a butterfly effect. So we'll have the actual dates for the closure notification to the city prior to that on Thursday. So that's coming up. It might be my jacket because there's a keep over here. My apologies. I have other qualities. Presentations aren't one of them. Okay, so then your Mayhill project. This project has several parcels that we're acquiring all the way up through to 288. We're looking at a May 2021 let date, and we are assuming the plans will be done in December for a 95% plan. So we're on track with everything, and we're coordinating and working with the city on their utility relocation. So this project is fully funded and on track for a May 2021 let date. Okay, so your Brinker project. Let me flip it here. So you're going to be having the - we had some of the southbound firms road improved this past weekend, and by Thanksgiving we're going to have all the traffic in their proper locations on the main lanes. So they're probably in a week or so we'll be moving some traffic around to pave the last third lane in both directions adjacent to that concrete barrier building and then substantial completion on this project. We'll be just prior to Thanksgiving, so we should see some moving coming in that area fairly quickly. I know it's painful. Do you have an update on Brinker? I mean, can somebody please tell me when that's going to open? So they're going to construction on that as soon as the AFA is executed. Our crews will be installing the signaling equipment. The OHL subcontractor has not. For a variety of reasons that TXDOT understands they have not gotten the signal equipment in, so we offered the option that we would go to do that just to get it open a lot quicker. The AFA had some issues that council approved. It's got the Austin actually returns the long-form version instead of the short-form version. There were some concerns about that as you will actually approve the council approved the short-form version. Concerns about the language in that the long-form version is actually coming to you today to be approved. It's just it's basically a revised document. It's the same agreement. No changes substantially. I'm not going to try to speak to that. It's just that there were commitments in there that said you had approved that document when you actually had it. You'd approve the short-form version. So if that comes through today, as soon as that's approved, then we can mobilize our contractor. You've used some initials, some A, what is that? Advanced Funding Agreement. Okay. You're being paid, the state's paying you to do the signal because it's something that they were going to pay OHL to do. You offered to do it instead, but you wanted to be paid for it as proper protocol. The concern was is that if we got going too far ahead of the Advanced Funding Agreement approved and executed by both parties, that we could potentially not get reimbursed for some of those items. So we absolutely did not want to start that work until the AFA was complete. And then we could get fully reimbursed for the work we're doing. So one question you may ask is if y'all execute that today, y'all have the ability to docusign? Is that true or not? Yes. Yes. So it can be fairly fast after that. But our traffic operations folks have already been working on getting materials on order, ready to go, and then our contractor will be ready to move as quickly as possible. Brian, I think you guys have talked to Bean about getting mobilized. Right. Upon approval of the AFA, they're ready to go pick up their equipment, check stop, and move into place in construction. Promise we'll do it next week. So and construction, what started? Because it's just insulated. Is that like a big deal or? It's not huge since it's all shut down. But there will be traffic controls that move as they move through different corners. Realistically, just given that the period of the year we're in, we see these cold fronts come and go. We're having some rainy conditions. We will have to set foundations and a bunch of other things. It will most likely be by the... I would say it's probably not going to be in and functioning and fully open until after Christmas. So next year? Yeah, but the contractor we have mobilized on this, they're efficient. Once they're engaged, they'll get through as quickly as possible. Thank you. Okay, on the I-35E, W-MERGE. I'm sorry, did I get something else? I'll pause those. No, I've just, if you could follow up with us on why we approved a short thing instead of the long thing that later on, that would be... It was, that was absolutely what came out of the district office. They sent us a red line version for, and because we were trying to expedite it, we executed faster than what they're used to expecting. So we just missed the step. Sounds like it was a mistake. It was, well, it was good intentions. It's different than a mistake. Part of what happened there is there's a group in the area office, the district office in Dallas, that handles a lot of the upfront conversation with most communities on the funding piece. So they put the document together. We executed on our side, and then it had to go to Austin to get approved. When I got to Austin, they said, time out. We don't want this one, we want this one. That's when Austin was willing to go with and then kick back to us. So that's where that broke down. So the real deal on this one was there used to be a master agreement with local governments that TxDOT had. And the short form was that based on all these different things that are master agreements, here's a short version of what we're doing in this agreement. That was sent, and that was a different way of doing things around for the longest time. What has happened between the time that was sent to us and with this new advanced funding agreement is the Austin office decided that that no longer is the way to do things because there was a lot of change in the master agreement and the time we did there. So they're like, we're executing only moving to the advanced funding agreement as opposed to the LEPAFA, which was the local agency or government agreement. And so if you've never seen your master advanced funding agreement, you're fortunate because the people who had executed the first time had to have some temerity about them because it basically says you're responsible for everything the state does. And then they come back and say, but on this project, all you got to do is X. That's the short version. But the first time you execute that agreement, there's a lot of words in there that scare you. So after Christmas. Okay, your merge project. Again, we're in the process of acquiring the parcels on this project. We've got them down to 12 negotiations out of the 15 and three are an appraisal. We are looking at a ready to let of July 2021. The difference between the tech stock consent connect let date and ours is that's where they put the money when they approve the category 12 or clear lines funding. But if we can get it ready sooner than that, then they'll move it up to that current year, which is what we're shooting for. And this is from the wishbone up to 380. Then on the next project, I told you, I apologize. I I've been asked this thing. I just don't remember this. Is this project or is it the one that goes from 380 North that will take care of the congestion on the exit ramp onto university? Right. It's this one and this next section. So you'll see that we broke it up. We broke it out to say for North segment is segment one, because we're going to do segment one to 77 with the merge project. So there are two different CSJs, two different funds amounts, but they're going to be combined as one job. So this one plus this segment takes care of all of the issues from 77 South to the marriage on 30 on 35. I think that the timing of construction is something that we've been talking about with tech stock now that they unlock both of these projects. But at the same time, there's a meeting we'll be having with them over the next two weeks for the district office understands our concerns. They're coming up here to actually have that conversation about how do we sequence this in such a way that we can try to manage the traffic flows that are absolutely going to fall. Yeah. That's all it was to construction. I'm sure you've covered this. Can you remind me what specifically will be done within the two projects that will address that specific issue? Absolutely. Exit onto university. So on the Wishbone project, what is included in the 35E project that was environmentally cleared back in 2012 is three lane frontage roads and both sit on the north and south bound, but braided ramps. So right now what you have is everybody's fighting to get from 35W on to 35. People on 35W and 35E trying to get to 38 and they're all fighting in about a thousand feet of real estate. What we're doing is we're called it's called braided ramp where both of those ramps need to be in the same place to get on and get off. And so the on ramp will be at grade. I believe it's the case where it's off. We flip the grade. On ramp from? From 35 to 380. And then there's going to be a on ramp at the same place from the frontage road to 35 and there'll be braids. So one will go under and the other go over. So you have fighting. You're not fighting. Plus we're adding the third lane on the frontage roads. Plus we're adding a second lane on 35W because right now if you're coming north on 35W you have to get down to one lane and then basically merge on to to 35. So there'll be a ramp from 35W to 380 in the end? I mean, correct. You'll be able to come 35W two lanes on to 35. And then right there you'll be able to take an exit and go either under or over the on ramp and just land right in and go into 380. I believe it's the exit ramp is at grade because the development cares how you get there. They don't care how you leave. That's one of the breaks. I was just going to say I think that this may be our priority project. Oh, yeah, right. Because the regional group keeps asking us. Well, is it priority for implementation or priority for funding? Is this project fully funded? Implementation, I guess. Or are they asking for funding? They're wanting for a project that you want funded. Oh, OK. This is $880 million of full funding. So it's fully funded. Fully funded. This is one of those deals where I tell you. Fund that again. This is why I tell you we do faith-based engineering, right? Because you don't have to have the money in order to go through the regulatory process. But if you have the money like we do have the money here and aren't through the regulatory process, you still can't do it. So we just start on the process knowing that someday he'll get funded. And so when is this supposed to be? Exactly. So right now, that's what I was explaining. You have two dates here for let dates. You have a ready to let date in July 2021, which is what we think state and the city and everybody can get their collective act together to do. Right now, it's plugged in 2023 for clear language. What we can do is accelerate that date. We cannot go past that date. So what can be done? Would it require greater funding to complete the project in less time? So most of these projects that they're doing now, they do what's called A plus B bidding, which I'm not a big fan of it because if anything goes wrong, you're toast at the end of it. But A plus B is you bid it a dollar amount, but you select on who says they can do it for the fewest number of days. So I'm assuming that that's there. They've been doing it a lot lately. 2181 was an A plus B. So we got creamed on that one. Yeah. What are you trying to say? So yes, they do try to do it in a manner because A plus B typically, supposedly, you know, in the real world or perfect world, gets rid of the bad contractors. We got the best bad one. We got that same one on four out of the five projects they have at State of Texas. You get the most eager bidders anyway. Not the same thing as the best bidder. So the answer is yes, this project and the next segment includes all of the issues we need to solve all the problems in this part of the world of Denton. The segment on the 35E all the way to 380 will include the infrastructure because ultimately this project has Manning's Lanes coming all the way through Denton. Right now they stop in the Lake Cities area because we didn't buy and reconstruct all of 35 through the Lake Cities of Denton. We just, we had capacity where we had the right of way. This project will add the Manning's Lanes infrastructure so when the section to the south gets built that project will already be open and ready to run. So that's the merge and we're looking at July 2021 let date and then the section to the north is a little bit behind schedule but we think if we pull this segment out, if this is the same date as you have on the section to the north here we're fairly confident that we can get that date ready to go that date. It's the same as the previous project but again this is where we're going to add the frontage roads, fix the alignment of 77, 288 will be solved because there's a you know danger between 380 and 288 from the on ramp so all this gets resolved. Okay all these projects segment one, segment two and the merge is if you add it all up it's about 880 million dollars and it's all fully funded. I'm sorry for slowing my comprehension but I'm just digesting what you just shared about how the braided lanes resolve that issue and I'm wondering does it push just push the problem to another absolute conflict point? Yes sir that's why we're doing segment one of the next project because the next conflict point after scripture and all that where a razor is is the 380 intersection. Right yeah because you got you got a lane coming from the 35 west over you got a lane from the frontage road going on to 380 you got a lane from 35 east going there and now they're all trying to get on to 380. So that's why we're doing the next little segment here because that fixes all of that issue so it takes the frontage road and improves it all the way through to 77 and that's what you need to make that intersection under 380 work is a functioning frontage road north that's not trying to get on to 380 exactly okay but what about the fact that you've got these three different sources that now each have their separate lane uh separate ramps to get on to 380 what about the part where they 380 are they in conflict there right in other words you got a lane a ramp from if i understood you correctly a ramp from 35 west going on to 380 good a ramp or a lane from the 35 e frontage road going on 380 you got to and then you got a way to get the frontage road 35 e proper 35 west proper they've all got lanes going on to 380 in the future wall right so don't they kind of collide at that point of contact they do really end up merging so if you've driven 635 or any of those areas where they don't have a variety of braided ramps yeah they do merge so absolutely they they kind of merge together so you're not going to get three lanes dumping directly on to the frontage roads and 380 so they'll sort of merge over time and they'll get that traffic and basically one singular line coming into the frontage road plus right now the frontage roads that you have out there are not full constructed with that they will be so we're going to be adding lanes to the frontage road so your far right lane if they want to come northbound and turn right on 380 that'll be a general flow and the traffic wants to turn left we'll have dual lefts but they'll have additional lanes in order to not because what happens is you can't even get over to take a right when you're exiting so we're adding lanes to the frontage road so we're also going to take some of the noise out of the problem because people aren't trying to get out of exit but uh isn't that still where it's going to back up though and that that single lane that they all search down to we're also adding more capacity and a new interchange on Windsor we're currently working with tech stock to add that design so Windsor is just north of 380 a lot of the neighborhoods that reside in that particular area do use university currently to exit and take university to Bonnie Grant some of the neighborhoods north so that noise will be removed from that interchange and pulled further north so that it exits further and connects to Windsor so that we're trying to progress it's a little all of it okay but we're carrying we're carrying the improvements before we were just carrying up to 380 which doesn't solve the problem yeah we're now taking them all the way past 288 to 77 which that's where that's the funnel part that stops the traffic from being able to function through that area because there's a lot of traffic that wants to go west there's a lot of traffic that wants to go east and right now they're fighting for essentially two lanes yeah all right i think i'm calmer for the moment i know we haven't we'll hear about this many times between now and then you'll experience it too yeah thank you so segment two is the same project it's fully funded takes it from 77 all the way up to the county line and it'll be six lane divided urban with what they call two three frontage roads so there'll be three frontage roads between the on ramp off ramp and the on ramp and then two at the intersection main lanes on 35 we're back to designing these and getting an environmentally cleared we're still haggling over a little bit of the traffic that we think we've got that resolved and so we're thinking about this time next year ish we should have the project environmental clear which will mean we can start protecting it from a development standpoint a lot of people are wanting to make sure that 35w doesn't end up looking a whole lot like what 35e does in some areas where it's a whole lot of district mall work and so this will allow us to protect the corridor our frontage road project we are looking at environmental clearance this coming summer and at that point we've submitted the project for clear lanes again and once we get environmentally cleared we can select the sections of 35w frontage roads we want to construct that make the most sense and right now what the pressure looks like is it's in the northern half of this segment within the city of den 380 east this project's got a february 2021 let date in totality we're probably going to move the green one up as i've told you last time the state needs to lead a project in the 2020 fiscal year in there probably about a month away from splitting this job out so we'll do the green section first and then the blue section second loop 288 again we're just now got the traffic approved from austin and so now they're back on to finalizing those so that we can do a public hearing so we can get environmentally cleared spring of next year that allows to protect the corridor which is important because this area is getting encumbered by the day and this also involves we've had some close coordination with the coal ranch hillwood folks to make sure what we're doing on the 288 section in the south is consistent with what their development calls for this one is not this one is fake based engineering but uh we feel confident that once we get it cleared and start because they're going to start acquiring the right away because i don't so this project has been on the books and around for 20 years and we've county's been starting and stopping starting and stopping based upon what tex dot told us to do and about two years ago tex dot said we need to get the loop done start the engineering again so we've re-engaged hntv i mean chain patel and so it was text that district telling us get the project cleared because we want to start acquiring the right away and we want to build a loop so we feel fairly confident once we get it environmentally cleared you should see some speed on this project pick up from a funny standpoint would this be considered a priority in our city for our engineers hey reserve the right to not answer that question well i think we need to talk about that a little bit uh but this is i think the re what you need to look for and i know this is kind of uh sometimes difficult to do the reason i don't think you'd prioritize this is a priority because it's already a priority for the district and you want to get you want to leverage your money as much as possible so you want to pick something that they're not already interested in let me make a suggestion that uh when we get through you know the updates can we just have a little discussion specifically about that what i think it might be you know that's the right order let's let's go okay 1515 all right so uh we are in the process of getting this project environmentally cleared next year we've got to get some information from the city on the new location of the roundabout on the west end and uh we still need to have some coordination with the uh the engineering firm doing the wishbone for tech stock to make sure that we're tying 1515 and bonnie bray and consistent with those plans so there's some coordination but again this project is planned to be cleared next year by this time just a question about the roundabout is the roundabout going to be as large as the one on bonnie bray most likely to be larger larger for the trucks yeah okay thank you i was going to try to answer that but i'm probably doing it around about way and i wouldn't i'm glad you didn't answer okay fm 1173 again this is a project the district asked the the county to pick up and an address so the county did this project is about 44 million bucks really right it reroutes it to morto consistent with the current plan from the city and that interchanges and the plans for the 35 project that's funded and so we're uh working on getting the schematic approved which will then inform us on how long it will take to get the project environment clear and then again i've met with tech stock i think two weeks ago they are planning on having a firm on contract by end of year that's all they'll commit to and at that point they'll have somebody to do the study on a limited access facility so it'll be a freeway instead of an arterial which is kind of you know a divided facility so we'll be able to start populating this probably after the first of year and then bonnie bray phase uh seven that's the uh segment that's green we're working with cog and funding on the section in blue we've already got that and the tip and they're partnering with us on that project uh we carry this because it's a project that city needs in order for bonnie bray to work properly but again it's a project that cog is has said all right city you're doing your part south of here we're going to work with tech stock to make this connection and so we're just keeping you informed that we're slowly moving towards getting that project we've already got a schematic that we think works the city did and so now we're just moving towards getting cog and tech stock to have it funded i believe that's it so yeah can we look at the list and have council member phrase yeah before we talk about the list i have a question about 428 in the loop that we're experiencing right there yeah this update because i am aware that there are two more large apartment complexes coming in or proposed there one on point when set it right next to the palladium and that's coming really soon and then i think one across the street are over there and so this is going to be really important for us to know what's happening right here so at the intersection we are widening the number of planes under the bridge so that the bridge footprint is pretty wide and we have some space to expand under the bridge so we're adding capacity adding term lanes under the bridge as well as signalizing those two intersections so at the interchange it will be signals with a widened capacity enhanced capacity currently text dot has okayed us to go with always stops so it's functioning it would function as a signal is if you have to come in always stop add those intersections so so you mean there's just going to be when you say always stop it's a four-way stop signs for now until we get to the construction we're going through the textile improvement process for the signals as well as the capacity and that will be a long form so this is a this this list that we have here is not a comprehensive list of of everything you're working on it's just the on system primarily or those that have got top funding so that was the statement in case there was other projects but do you think there might be something that would be a contender for being our top priority that's not on the list well you have a bond program right that has projects on it that are anticipating leveraging one project that is definitely on that list for us or more text I'm sorry you just need a letter for us unless the whitey 1830 so they'd be they have funding and are very interested in falling divided 1830 from hickory through the road all the way north up to Hobson Hobson to 377 is already getting white but 377 so that is definitely one heavy traffic movement that we need to make sure it gets mobilized quickly just would you view that as a higher priority than anything that's on this list again where john is is and what he's mentioned is is that there those are already on the high priority list for the state just their funding means they're actively engaged in these 1830 they're ready to go they just need to know we're ready to go so that's something they would absolutely be willing to work forward on we just gotta let them know it's time to go now there are implications to that and that is you've got the hickory creek connection that's made with the bond program but as soon as 1830 gets widened to four lanes now we're starting to work through on the engineering side if i don't go past 1830 with that hickory creek connection which right now tenses down at brush creek road if we don't carry that past 1830 still has to make this big winding curve as opposed to the potential that if hickory creek were to continue to go then 1830 could t in and we have a an intersection that's easier to control we take those big sweeping curves out and then two lane 1830 would continue south so those are all alternatives we're having to work through the textile right now we don't know the answer to those but if that's a priority we want to push we would absolutely have to accelerate going forward what does that look like you know keep this up because it seems like something you want to ask about yeah that was uh i'm just gonna have to look at what that looks like because i've never in our conversation that was kind of brush creek what was the point of contention for how wide that wants to be and so making that a priority and not even really understanding the full scale of it that's why we haven't really rushed into that without having that broader conversation about anything else on this item are you talking about pedestrian scramble okay so item f closing envy open item f receiver report and hold the discussion regarding the implementation of an exclusive pedestrian phase in the traffic signal operations of the downtown intersections and oak and elm oak and locust hickory and elm and hickory and locust as a pilot program i know i just i had the power point okay brian yeah i tried to get you here today talk to you about traffic signals pedestrians cars and how we propose to make a few of them work a little more safely together so a little background on traffic signals and pedestrians historically the way they've operated is a vehicle will pull up to a stop bar a pedestrian will walk up to the accessible ramp push the button the car if they're going in the same direction the car gets the green and the walk light goes on at the same time so everybody starts moving the problem with that is that somebody's at an intersection that wants to make a right turn in a vehicle they start their right turn the same time the pedestrian steps off the curb likewise if they're on the pedestrians on the other side they begin their movement the same time that somebody who's going to turn left begins there so we've got a conflict point with pedestrians and vehicles in crosswalks now one of the ways we've tried to address this at certain intersections that have a little bit higher turning movements and higher pedestrian volumes is what we do call a leading pedestrian interval so they get about five or six seconds for the walk sign before the car gets to great it gets to be it gets the pedestrian out in the crosswalk very visible so as that person begins to make their turn they can see them and we don't eliminate the conflict but we make the pedestrian a lot more visible to the driver however as pedestrian volumes and traffic volumes increase we need some different tools and one of the tools that we're looking at as a pilot program is an exclusive pedestrian phase or as our public outreach team has named it the all-walk crosswalk so what happens with the exclusive pedestrian phase or an all-walk crosswalk is the vehicles yeah the vehicles get a red light and the pedestrians get a walk in all directions so there's no conflict between pedestrians and vehicles we plan to implement this around the square so if you can picture oak, hickory, logiston, elm a lot of one-way traffic so you'll have all the cars stopped somebody will have to push the button and then all the crosswalks at all four of the any of the four intersections all the crosswalks get a walk at the same time so this is not a true texas scramble although we're we're looking at that for future implementation we can't cross diagonally we're just going to cross in the existing crosswalks which is why they all walk crosswalks moniker really works for us you can cross any direction north south east to west so our our plan is to give them enough time to cross the longest that that walk time will be the time that's required across the widest approach so you'll have plenty of time to safely get across to the next corner and then the vehicle traffic one direction will go and then the other direction will go so it's it's kind of a we're trying to keep the time about the same we're just moving it around in a different direction yeah why not yeah i have some questions that people have asked me but why not the diagonal so this is we're doing it as a texas two-step this is our pilot program we want to see how the public and the businesses receive the pedestrian phase right now those intersections aren't geometric they're physically not designed to allow the diagonal for accessible needs users so what we would have to do if we want to do the true texas scramble or the pedestrian scramble we'd have to change the ramps right now they're directional so you're going directly across the street and then directly across the street to a what we used to do is that intersection that corner load where you have the ramp that can go it's really widened up to go this way or that way or shoot you straight across we don't have the markings or the ramps in place right now to allow that diagonal certainly can be done but we want to test the waters and see how it's received and we believe there's some significant safety aspects that will be seen as we move forward with this pilot program i want to make sure i'm tracking uh as you go uh i probably already said this like you have this exclusive pedestrian phase but then do you also have the sort of traditional pedestrian no when the when the when the cars get to green the pedestrian is not allowed to move and so here's this is a disadvantage just advantages for both drivers and pedestrians the pedestrians don't have to worry about getting hit by car turning and when that light goes green for the cars they don't have to worry about a pedestrian stepping off and causing a delay or a conflict point as they're making a turn the through traffic will move just like it always does but the right turn and the left turn will be they'll have the free right away now one of the things this does that we'll talk about in the future in the slide but it does restrict the ability to take a right on red or a left on red so we'll have no turns on red all cars stop pedestrians go pedestrians stop and the cars go one direction at a time but they no longer have that conflict they don't have to worry about somebody stepping off the curb right when they're trying to make a turn so we actually get a little efficiency in both pedestrian and uh motorists with this approach okay can you want that one more time that the the traffic is then ready to go one direction at a time so it's so it's it's four four greens no no it runs like normal at that point it's just in this case there's just no walk right and in this case you got a couple of one-way streets but so it the traffic signal will operate like normal so north and south will go then east and west okay that's what i thought you meant so it's two so it's three phases total right we're not changing the phase north south phase east west phase pedestrian phase north south phase that's the cycle so the pedestrians will see the exact same indication they see today and others will see the exact same indication they will they do today but they won't have the conflict with each will not have the conflict with the other we're trying to remove that conflict and give each movement pedestrian or vehicular its own discrete tracks because there is i mean if you think about where you get inside markings is that's the well as fargo is just to get some bearings on here on the south side if you've got green light for for hickory there's no reason they shouldn't be the pedestrian crossing could be open because no if you've got no turn on red there's nobody that can go back but right if hickory's got the green light and locus has got the red that crosswalk could be open as well you could we can do it over we'd be an overlap um part of what we wanted to do at the pilot phase though is not confuse people by too many things going on at one time it's a very just from personal experience i drove one of these over the summer and we were in victoria canada had a lovely city a lot of people walk in everywhere fairly narrow roads a lot of parking on all sides so when we're driving through the downtown area people are walking left and right coming from behind parked vehicles parked cars are trying to park coming to come out parking trying to figure out who's trying to turn right and left and then when you get to an intersection all of this stuff happens at one time except at one intersection where they had an exclusive pedestrian phase the the unique thing about that exclusive pedestrian phase is just from a drive ability standpoint the first time i hit it i got to that intersection i was like what is going on because all the cars stopped all the people went and then none of the people went and you got to go the thing i discovered is is i really liked that intersection better than any so anytime we were driving through the downtown area we made sure our route went that way because i didn't have to worry about when i was turning left or right i wouldn't have to worry about people coming and going and it was the only intersection that i was able to actually have that kind of confidence driving i also stopped doing just intuitively i stopped doing that kind of edge up to the line because i want to either beat the pedestrian or see the pedestrian or see another car i knew i was going to have my turn so i didn't really edge up so i got i calmed down i was able to see a lot more around me and i knew i was going to get my turn without conflict so what we see on the square is you see people trying to walk and you got people trying to make a left they're looking for parking there's a lot of i'm trying to figure out is the person going to walk i gotta try to get that spot over there somebody's backing out of before this other guy gets it you got all those things happening in this square which is where we started as we really got down to the nuts and bolts of what is a exclusive pedestrian phase or an all walk how do we remove some of just that anxiousness that we all feel when we're trying to drive through that area and provide some support to a potentially chaotic area this is absolutely what that does intuitively it brings a lot of order to an area where there's a lot of decisions that as a driver and as a pedestrian you don't realize you're doing all the time you just don't really tell that you get that sense of order and it will happen almost intuitively to everybody you get there you know you have your turn so you're not doing this edging up i got i'm going to have plenty of time the pedestrian knows you're not getting on my way i don't have to try to figure out are you jumping out in front of me are we going to do the standoff here i'm going to let you in because you weigh more than i do they can walk progressively across with confidence where they're going it also starts intuitively it starts to prevent some of that i'm just going to jump out and walk across because i'm impatient because everybody knows i have a chance to go you also get if you drive the square especially around the lunchtime hour you're trying to find a place to park you see the left lane will get clogged because people are walking across and we want them to walk across but now you got people who are getting anxious because i want to try to turn or right turn so you see that in some too depending on what side the pedestrians are really focused on walking across with this scenario i should actually be able to clear traffic better when it's their turn without all the anxiousness that comes up with that and i understand that but with it being a one way coming in from this one one way coming in from this way and if your timing is such that it's for a pedestrian to cross once then if they're wanting to go from this corner to this corner they're going to wait through two cycles whereas if you said okay when i'm going northbound when locus has got the green people on locus can't take left so we can leave that be a a walk zone and people will will learn that that's the corner i want to get on that side because i can go with traffic at the same time when it's an all walk i see what you're saying my concern is just going to be that are we adding something different at one intersection or two intersections potentially than we went anywhere else and ultimately what we're hoping to find out is absolutely this phase works people like it we go to the next step and i have the diagonal and i don't even have to worry about that anymore because you can just go straight across but we're trying to step into this in a way where we can make this change quickly i mean if council were to say yes we could do it tomorrow if we wanted to then we won't because we've got signs and education and all that mess but we will do it fairly quickly depending on council's direction the issue that really what we're trying to get through here is is this something that's accepted is it something that through the pilot program that people will embrace and then we can put the dollars to all the improvements but have to go on all those corners to make the diagonals and then you get that very direct route on all corners yeah you know i understand that i think it's a good program i'm just looking at you're going to have frustrated pedestrians that are going to make it across one street and then have to wait for a full cycle of both locus and hickory to go through before they get the light to cross again it could and we'll be actively monitoring these intersections you know be a camera as well as physical having people out there to watch what's going on but we can make adjustments as it goes along okay council members yeah i i have several different comments that was one of them and one of the concerns that people commented and was that generally with these types of programs the pedestrians get frustrated because they have to wait or they don't have enough time to cross and right now they could go from one side to the other side with the with the traffic timing but if for some reason they're not fast enough they can only make it across one street and they get frustrated because they have to wait for four lanes of traffic so then you have people just taking off and you know going rogue and trying to cross whenever they can as a as a situation so that was just one of them and i have other ones i can wait till the but this is a but if all traffic stops a person could i mean if in theory they could walk diagonally that's the next phase well it well it is it is but they can go where they want the issue is is that from an 88 compliancy perspective you gotta strip they've got to stripe it they've got to throw out of the ramp so that's why it's phase two is if it works then but i could i could start from that that that say the bottom right hand let's see the bottom left hand corner and just just walk back you know all traffic stops if you're nervous enough to go rogue you would do that sir if you're nervy enough to go no i wouldn't i'm not going to agree with you all traffic stop yes i understand but i mean he's making i'm supporting your point yes go ahead you can fight with me if you want so what is the timing so what is the timing now and what will the proposed timing be because you said it would increase or no okay you're talking about each phase so that's another actually it's kind of an advantage of going to discrete phases because you can actually it's kind of intuitive perhaps but because i don't have to if i'm in a car and i don't have to wait for the pedestrian to clear the turn that i want to make left or right i can actually shorten that green time because i'm flowing free i don't have any disruptions and no conflicts i can actually shorten the green time and get the same amount of traffic through what that allows us to do is to move that green around if you think of the signal cycle as a circle if we have shorter pieces smaller pieces of the pie i get more pieces during the same amount of time so i'll be able to serve we've looked at it it's very very much like it is today we're going to give shorter times because right now those pet times are extremely long and some of those signal phases are extremely long because the pet phases are extremely long if we can if we can serve the time and we may just use the diagonal time how how long does it take a person to go from one corner to the other if they choose to do that we need to provide safe crossing time well that's going to give more than enough time if you want to cross a single leg but then that allows us to reduce the vehicular green time because now they don't have to worry about they're not as todd said you'll see the right turn that it'll start and then they have to stop and wait for the pedestrians to clear don't have to do that anymore so when they get the green they're it's free flow they're free to go right left straight and we can actually serve the same number of cars with a shorter cycle or the shorter phase so the same we may have shorter phases we have more of them so even though they have to wait as a pedestrian like to cross this street and then wait across that street and wait the time it takes the total time it takes to cross is not that different than it is today if you want to hear the rest of the presentation then we'll take their issues so we've already talked about a lot of it yeah that's right look there's numbers on there so so the uh the concept really is we've been around for a long time in the 40s it was in some of the urban denser urban areas it was standard practice and then after world war ii when the states became pretty auto-centric and everybody had their car they wanted one person one car it kind of fell out of favor because prioritization was given to the vehicular road so pedestrians kind of fell away people stopped walking they started driving everywhere but now with the resurgence of the complete streets you see a lot of these implementation again starting in the larger urban areas but it's really it's a great practice for anywhere you have that conflict enough pedestrians and enough turning and traffic volume vehicular volumes is a good idea so we've talked about a lot of the advantages it increases the convenience for pedestrians they no longer have to worry about crossing and conflicting with the auto it definitely enhances the pedestrian safety i think once people get over that hump of if there's a little frustration as todd said they know they're going to get their turn and they're not going to have a car trying to turn in front of them it really enhances the safety level and the other thing that it does is it really promotes the pedestrian mode we're we're all about that complete streets concept we're going to get people out of their car you know park a block away and again we're starting with the pilot program we may expand this but we want to we want to make it comfortable for people to walk around downtown and this is a this is an easy way where we can make it safe dependable and comfortable for people to walk instead of driving from or trying to park as close to their destinations can they know they can walk safely then the more likely to walk so again it increases the visibility all the heads are you get this platoon of heads crossing the cars can see them they know it's not their turn eliminate the conflict conflict points between the vehicles and the heads and we can actually as we said reduce the overall head crossing time because they no longer have to wait for cars once they start they can complete their maneuver without a conflict the other thing it does is it can actually tighten up some intersections downtown may not we may not see this but on other locations if we expand this program because you no longer have cars and heads moving at the same time we can type we can bring those crosswalks in a little bit and shorten the distance for potentially for pedestrians and for cars because if we move the stop bars in this goes again how we can reduce that green time for a car they've got less time they that it takes them from the stop bar to clear the intersection because we brought it in tight so pedestrians don't have to worry about a car either turning or even if it's in the same direction right now we keep a safe distance 46 feet between the travel lane crosswalk we don't have to do that anymore because we don't have that conflict there's no cars moving at the same time as a passenger and we talked about the shorter vehicular faces now in some instances of larger intersections because the the crosswalk times are extremely long you can add some delay and it's a trade-off as to whether or not that safety increase is worth the delay increase so if you've got larger intersections again not necessarily these first four but if we move this pilot program to other locations in the city you can increase the overall delay for both vehicles and pedestrians it doesn't eliminate the turn on red right turn on red left turn on red on one-way streets we really don't want those cars moving at the same time as a pad so we have to restrict that and you can introduce some driver frustration but as i think as todd said once you once the drivers learn hey i'm going to get my turn and when i when i get my turn i don't have to worry about pedestrians and if we can keep those phases short to where we serve the we serve the demand that's there we don't not wait for the platoon that's a block and a half away and we move it around more often than we can we can mitigate a lot of that frustration todder gave his example this was his again a lot of the larger urban areas are defaulting to this there are some states up north primarily where anytime they do an intersection you have to prove that you would not have an exclusive pedestrian base because it is by default built down i know some of our constituents who prefer that our traffic engineers only travel within the state of texas but i think it's going to be for xmas no idea marcelon spain is this is the whole the whole city's this and it is controlled beautiful chaos and if nobody ever can put through each other i like that until he said cats well i mean there's just a lot a lot of people moving and it worked perfect i was you know i'm not a complete streets guy but that was for us and it's not limited although our initial deployment is really focusing on some one-way streets it's really not limited to one-way streets at all i mean any intersection with the right pedestrian vehicle component is a candidate for this treatment we've talked about several other locations in town where it might make sense well do i have to ask what else is on your radar since you introduced that topic uh you know what i'll hold it because i asked everyone else all their questions go ahead you got 11 12 13 and 14 right so probably one that says questions this one we've already talked about these are the four locations timeline we have presented to the main street association traffic safety commission uh dedc mobility today council we've got uh we're actually added one committee on persons with disabilities will be next thursday and so uh we're ready to implement the the week before thanksgiving we've got uh we've got the the program running on some some controllers in on the bench we're having a little implementation problem when we go to the field but we've got our technical people coming in this week to iron that out we'll be ready to move next week so a little bit about the program implementation if we start the week in november we're going to work until spring five or six months we're going to let it run we'll be assessing we'll be taking feedback the public outreach loop has got a great website they're ready to roll out it's just got a feedback survey on it a lot of helpful tips we're going to have some a phrase signs out on the corners too i think it's one on each corner of each intersection that'll give some tips about hey you've got to push the button don't cross you know when the cars are crossing just some helpful hints they've got some faqs on the website so we'll be bringing this back with an assessment of kind of a summary of the feedback that we received if we have any hopefully not but if we have any crash data we'll try to share that with you as well and then again bring it back to you for a determination whether or not we want to terminate the pilot program or continue it as a permanent operation and then after if we decide to continue it then we can talk about expansion okay questions yes so why wouldn't we just eliminate the right or left turns on red if that's a an issue so because that that's been an issue for right now for when there's there's an automatic crosswalk implemented base so you don't have to push the button and so people have gotten used to that a little bit so that's one of my issues we're going to have to make them start pushing the button again second so what about the flashing yellows it's that fade is that going to go away the flashing yellow arrows and does that mean that they can still turn are you talking about that hickory yellow just yeah yeah because that's a big issue and if that stays and we're still working through that issue and that one way it's a two-way conundrum is really it's an issue that just has to be resolved the best option is to resolve that issue is to clearly define that entire stretch of road is one way or two way that gets rid of that because now we can control that effectively with the signal that people know what they're doing with this pedestrian phase what it does do is if you're trying to figure out who's going you've at least eliminated the well i got a pedestrian crossing too so now i'm trying to figure out who's going when and i'm trying to juggle what the pedestrians are doing all at the same time we're still working on what's the best solution for that conflict where they come together so that will still be going on but there will not be a pedestrian sign because now there is at the same time as the yellow crossing so that will be removed right at least okay so let me answer your first part about the right turn on red the right turn on there's there's two conflicts um one is when if i pull up to the stop bar and i get a green and i want to turn right during that green phase i conflict with the pedestrian that's crossing with me if i pull up and i want to turn right on the red i conflict with the person that's crossing against me so eliminating the right turn on red only eliminates part of the conflict what we're trying to do is eliminate all vehicular pedestrian conflicts and with the with the all-walk crosswalks pedestrians all move at one time and the vehicles move when it's their turn and they don't have that conflict with the pedestrian so the right turn on red helps but it only helps part way all right so i talked about the push button i talked about that you said the disability committee is going to review this so that was another question my right turn only so um so some of the feedback about this phase or what we're doing here is that pedestrians get frustrated with the time that they have to wait but i think you may have solved that by saying that all the phases are going to be shorter and we have the ability to to reduce the green time again we've we're running it on the bench right now we haven't done a field implementation but we're going to be monitoring this so that if we see that we're clearing the cues then we can shorten that green time we're going to tailor this to maximize our efficiency of moving that green time around the intersection and are we afraid or have you thought about if cars back up the traffic backs up into the next intersection so yeah or you know there's somebody waiting for a parking place and holding holding something up and some of that is a problem today and regardless some of that will be a problem in the future i i don't think it's going to be as a bigger problem as maybe people think it will be because oh my goodness now we're all stopping the reality is if everybody stopped but i've got pedestrians doing their thing at one time so they get a priority whereas right now they kind of are treated as secondary to the cars we're getting the pedestrians priority thing you absolutely have your own face now when the car is cleared they're clearing faster and even if they have to wait for somebody backing out they're doing that today with the current single configuration that really won't change so a situation where the excuse me the vehicles are you know it just comes from a bridge you know they're stacked up someone's blocking a car is blocking the intersection and just red lights all over right and so pedestrians are going to potentially walking in between vehicles that well so you get two components there that that happens today part of that is also an enforcement issue because you're not supposed to be in the intersection in order to stop and stop ahead of you you're supposed to lean on the other side of the intersection and then once that clears then you can look into the intersection that's what's supposed to happen and always happen that way but that even happens today there's no good answer for that one so are we going to have proper signage like no right turns yes it's a complete package just the the programming part and controllers but we've also got no turn on red signs that are part of this implementation as well and then my last question is bicycle boxes somebody a couple people mentioned that i think mark just left so i don't know um okay if you can just address that or you can do you know what that means i i do we have not planned on implementing those with part of this there is a kind of a fine point on the bicycles if they're going to drive through the intersection as a cyclist they are a vehicle and they have to wait for the green light for their if they're in the lane of traffic they have to wait for the green light if they want to if they want to cross with the crosswalk during the all-walk crosswalk phase they have to dismount and walk the bike across so but we're not planning on with this pilot implementing any additional cyclist provisions like the bike box or a separate bike phase or bike detection so we can address that in the future but with this right now we're just talking about separating the vehicle and the pedestrian faces yeah i think that really the bike box is absolutely the point of conversation has been moved forward with the mobility plan and the bicycle component of the of the plan it's absolutely a part of that discussion okay all right thank you um now i like the idea i think it will work well i think we're way overdue for no turn on red that should happen on the square a long time ago because you cannot see the oncoming traffic unless you're already in the crosswalk so why that hasn't happened years ago i don't know uh looking forward to see how it's accepted by everybody out there would you mind going back to the um the uh next steps slide well yeah yeah no no not that one the dates oh okay okay so all right so it already went to traffic safety correct and they they liked it right great green light so to speak yes um what is the point of going to the uh council before you go to the committee on persons with disability when we want to get that input and have that be part of the input to council it was just a scheduling when we decided to move forward with this they'd already had their last meeting so we put it on the next available agenda they meet that frequently maybe the next next thursday i mean i would anticipate that you know council may say sounds good except we want to hear what they say so i don't know i mean what what then happens it goes to them and they can you know council's already proved this how does that work what if they have a big issue with it or some group of some great insights what would we do in it my comment on that is that today council doesn't say yes we just give correction before and then they would go to the mobility committee and implement what they say before it comes back to us for a vote also comes back to council for a vote is that so i didn't see that i see the presentation of council today and then implementation or you could approve contingent upon yeah all right i anticipate that uh and then um first of all i should condition what i say by saying i like it and it makes sense to me just as an individual uh but i want to ask your indulgence um you know i got a an email i mentioned you did too from one of our you know kind of very engaged citizens particularly focuses on pedestrian bike mobility she cites a study that uh that says this sort of thing works works well uh only where people tend to follow the rules and then it then it works better in situations where it's long crossings and high traffic uh high auto traffic but not so well in this situation which is you know low relatively low distance uh you know and not like not like a highway situation like i said intuitively this makes all kinds of sense to me to have all traffic stopped when people are crossing i wonder if you're aware of this research and if uh okay let's see maybe i can read it to you if i can beg your indulgence sure um what here this is from safety ass effects of exclusive and concurrent signal phasing pedestrian crossings and it's a 2015 study they you know if you want i'll dig into it and find out the source but these are quotes from it intersections with concurrent phasing have fewer total pedestrian crashes than those with exclusive phasing but more crashes at higher severity however since traffic has stopped on all directions exclusive pedestrian phasing results in longer delays for motor vehicles and pedestrians pedestrians often do not wait for the pedestrian phase potentially resulting in unexpected interactions between pedestrians and motor vehicles the requested pedestrian phase may then go unused frustrating drivers who must then wait for the phase to run its course we recommend i don't know exactly the ways recommend that exclusive phasing be considered only in these conditions high traffic speeds long crossing distances and low pedestrian volumes in contrast locations with low traffic speeds short crossing distances and high pedestrian volume should not be considered for exclusive pedestrian phasing unless there's also significant use of the intersection by pedestrians with physical or visual challenges let's see if i can find the source here okay i can't wait uh so are you are you aware of the study of this there's a reason why and this is different than that so the the effectiveness or the success is very much intersection specific and i'm going to say when you talk about a long crossing versus a short crossing a residential intersection is a short crossing okay well we've actually this is when you're when you're talking about crossing locus you've got two travel lanes and two parking lanes you've got four lanes of traffic that's not necessarily a short crossing and the research that i'm much more impressed or that i agree with it's not the speed of the vehicles it's how much turning traffic you have because that's the conflict if you're going straight and i'm going straight as pedestrian there's no conflict it's when you want to turn right and left and around the square they have a lot of turning they also also the the point about the disadvantaged or challenged pedestrian i'm going to take that to the next step and it's the distracted pedestrian because when you're the pedestrians are types that we have around the square you're looking for where you're going you're with a group of friends you're not necessarily just walking like on somebody on university coming from class and students they're just we're walking but around the square you've got all this different activity going on and now you've got cars turning and you've got pedestrians trying to walk this way much more concerned about the distracted pedestrian and the number of turning vehicles and again these are not necessarily even though you're you only got one lane of traffic in each direction that you've got that parking adjacent to and so you know you still got a pretty good crossing distance also want to ask you mentioned that there are other places around the city where you think this might be applicable i wonder what intersections you have in mind well so i don't necessarily have intersections in mind but what i have is those areas where we have again the distracted pedestrian i'm going to lump it into university students yeah on the phone across the street anywhere around i'm not distracted they have complete and total focus laser focus it's not on their surroundings correct so anytime we have high pedestrian volumes and potentially distracted or not necessarily paying attention i would argue that anywhere around unt or twu not anywhere but there are several locations that might fit this this such as exactly such as friday right well yeah so anywhere uh i don't think that would even have a it will but i don't think it has a head phase but but those are the locations that we're looking to expand this where we've got those pedestrian volumes we've got the the vehicular volumes it doesn't necessarily have to be a high vehicular volume but if you've got high turning points or you've got as tob pointed out you've got people driving looking for a parking space they're not necessarily focused on what's happening with the pedestrians or even other vehicles so i'm asking like you know my true inner inclination is to be supportive i'm asking this as kind of constituent service see what you say uh another uh very engaged citizen says if you're you know would it make sense to other lower risk intersections where you would want to where you might consider testing this first asking the question you know with what do you think about that suggestion my question would come down to this what do you call it risk is the risk of pedestrian crashes so it's going to be some well some volumetric metric here's where i struggle with that one if i'm looking at this option as opposed to i'm going to insert a roundabout or something that is new to a good number of drivers you're putting in something that intuitively everybody's going to understand from the start it's a crosswalk it's a signal you get the driver gets a red light they see a sign that says no right on red no left on red they intuitively know these things as soon as they approach it so this the likelihood of increased risk actually goes down because this is a much more intuitive education process than one where we're going to insert something some new dynamic like the flashing yellows on the dueling heads or oak and hickory and locust that i'm way more worried about doing something different there than i am you got a longer time to walk and the cars have their green light and it's very orderly the issue that you generally run into is one that we deal with anyway and that somebody says well i'm late i'm just going to go you're never going to prevent that i don't care what control we put at that at that intersection you're never going to prevent that people are still going to cross if they see it's clear they're going to cross when they want to cross we're just saying let's give you a priority in this chaos and what brings them forward to it and say you go when you go i'll go when i go the pedestrian absolutely still can make the choice if nobody's coming down locust i'm just going to go i can do that we're not slowing that down i think this is a much if we're talking about risk assessment i don't see the risk here with this option we also want to implement the pilot program just in this way for exactly that reason no commitment on this beyond let's try it let's watch it we've got traffic cameras at these intersections so we can see it live when the minute something happens we'll be able to make adjustments to signal timing this is a very different scenario i would be more hesitant to do this on a university campus than i would on the square where people are are more acute and aware of what's going on around them i'm more worried about doing something in another place where it's a new phenomena and i still got kids are just they're not going to care i assume the traffic is going to stop for me regardless where it happens how long would you intend the test base to be it was five to six months five to six months and uh and what what would be the key metrics that define success so there's a variety of avenues there that we're looking to explore it's actually being out in the field asking questions of people on the corners as they're using it uh there'll be an online survey component in this people are invited to come they can scan the code they can give their feedback that way and we're trying to capture that data of people who park remotely they work up there or they live up there and they're just walking as well as the people who come up there they park it and walk it so user reaction is right all right uh you didn't ask for direction in that posting but uh i'm willing to give you you know certain now you give you get direction uh do you want to go ahead it says you've given your direction yeah i mean it's going to city council for presentation in a couple of hours and then you support that you support it going to council okay how about you yeah okay uh yeah uh me too i would just suggest that uh probably the citizen input that came to me has come to other council members as well and so the extent that you want to you know just be prepared to address those points so much of those studies are very they're focused on an intersection or two or three intersections and it doesn't necessarily look at the holistic picture so it becomes very intersection specific and what are the intricacies of that area versus somewhere else great thank you and i look forward to hearing the presentation to see if it's completely different in a couple of hours i've got time thank you okay moving on to img staff reports i don't want to pull up the matrix we've changed the name of matrix because we had some naming issues we just say i don't have any consideration that would you change it from in two he just did like us calling him neo that was part of it so as you can see i think the first few items they're more of ongoing i think dct regularly hearing that and these two or three items they're part of the big picture mobility plan that's mobility presentations are coming to work session items and coming months from below and the right turn lane versus bike lane that is at university i believe that was the issue it is a typical lane but it's a it's an intersection where you typically have a right turn lane and a bike or a through lane a shared through right lane and a bike lane next to each other it's it's on most of our bike routes so one of the things we can look at is more signage or some striping that you know alludes to traffic that hey when you're turning be aware that there's a bike lane and since you're merging into biking this is fairly typical and i can have brian talk about the merging or mark talk about it but i think the question was the conflict between the right turners and the bike yeah people try and use that as a three lane intersection so they stay in the main lane if they're going straight and they get in the bike lane to make a right hand turn typically maybe we need the green paint that we use on carroll and that might be a solution that typically the law requires them to merge into the into the bike lane before they can make it right so this is a merging area that's why you can see this area it's not a solid line and i can have brian talk in detail about this striping but typically what is required per law is they merge into this bike area and this becomes a merge mixed use or used by both a bike bicyclists as well as vehicles this area is used for the right turning vehicles so if you're turning right you're required to merge and then make a right so that you're not cutting off or getting in conflict with the bicyclists that coming in the bicyclist sees you in that particular area because they you now notice that you're turning right so this is this is required for the bicycle for the vehicle to merge into that area it's not necessarily required for them to stay there and act and and use that as a third lane which is what i think is what is happening so yes i think a little bit of paint and some striping that says shared use only for right turners or something like that that's something that we can look into once we implemented we'll come back and give you a quick update but that's that item getting into there are four items that we'll be bringing in next meeting and those will be item six which is the policy if we have any and what is our policy according to police department and bicycle enforcement item seven i think we are currently going back and forth on a resolution and legally getting ready to agree with the terms of the turn back agreement and then the other two items is items are number nine and number 12 update on small transportation projects and number 12 is sidewalk connectivity so we'll bring those back next time we get together i do have an update on item 10 which is the speed studies we conducted speed studies earlier this year on kings row nottingham and winzer and except for kings row i want to say kings row was slightly above the 85th percentile was 32 or 33 it's slightly above the speed limit on kings row what rest of the rest of the speed studies or surveys showed that they were under 30 miles an hour so the 85th percentile on nottingham as well as winzer was under 30 miles an hour so that was the result based on the speed study we can conduct more studies but we're typically we try and conduct these i think there was a slight change before police department was doing some of our studies but now traffic engineering has taken that over so they will be depending on the request depending on the need they'll be connecting traffic speed studies just to update our inventory and make sure that our speeds are posted at the right speed any questions you can add yeah open to additional so you guys go first that's what we're great i've been getting comments this is going to be a little unfocused but i want you to respond to it however you will i think i've comments that we do a new road construction and they get wobbly before you know and very soon they become wobbly here's a perception well use oak as an example that's recently redone and you know it seems to be kind of an undulating ride and the perception is that there are not just there but perhaps elsewhere that we take a uniform approach to the engineering when there may be underlying differences in the the soil level you know the composition of the soil so that you know things quickly settle unevenly and again it was wobbly roads perception so i'd be interested in hearing the future session if you think there's any truth to that if there's any changes if so if you think there are any changes or are there changes underway at this time in in our engineering approach to that to the soil level wasn't positive so that asked me well i'm not wrong if you choose to but i think i can at least get there a little bit of the way and if we need to go further we can come back to another time absolutely the biggest issue with some of these roads is if it's a reconstruct that's a big term to throw out there as a program not all roads are completely reconstructed so it ends up happening in some cases is and oak is one that predates me so i don't know exactly to what extent they went to if we were doing it today we would do what we call geotechnical core samples and a lot of times you'll see even the state do this so you'll see the state come in and reconstruct a road from the base up we discovered this just recently talking to the state they only do test force to the bottom of the pavement when they're going to reconstruct so they're not looking into what's going on below ground is that a good idea well no so and that has been a common practice across the state when they're just reconstructing an existing road what we do right now because especially with the source we have here so all of our projects go at least 15 16 feet down sometimes even further the roadway depth is actually if it's asphalt it's going to be somewhere around 24 inches total to get to the base concrete is going to be a little narrow about 18 inches so they're only going about that far that we're going 15 16 sometimes if we see groundwater we may even go further we don't reach rock and any in a shorter time frame we think it's there we may be going deeper just figuring out where all the material is and understand do i have high sulfates in the soil yeah sulfates that was the one yes yes so i because that will make the base turn into a muddy mess quickly so today we absolutely go at core everything much much deeper it's infinitely cheaper to do a five or six hundred dollar test hole up front and not have to come back and completely reconstruct the road later actually i'll take another example it kind of comes under this heading montecito i understand that well okay citizen perception there's an underground spring that like if people have been around for a long time they would have known that the new road is already cracking i haven't gone look at it myself but does that sound familiar to you and is that another example of not having there was another one that was that kind of predates the current staff so i don't know what measures they took when they started the reconstruction pathway yeah uh i know it through a bunch of little months here a bunch of my neighbors for a curve when when we came out and topped it again here this last summer like we're just out here three years ago what are you gonna get all right that's that ongoing maintenance of asphalt roadways some of that happens the pavement dries out we do have a lot of swimming pools in that neighborhood as well that we're not exactly sure how they drain so i do know there are some other factors at play in that area i don't doubt that there's some springs and some other things in the area but what we would do today reconstructing that roadway is what i just described would it be doing test holes try to identify where groundwater is so we can come at that and have better ways of feeling about that you can add emerson to that list of um streaks that have no no no that have underground springs because that's really really up and down i don't know if that has been proven or not but that's what's it well and that's exactly why we do those very deep test holes to start identifying all the materials that make up the soil column as well as any groundwater that may be pervasive in the area so so adding to the matrix of a number of streets that you want us to get ports on or i mean i just don't want us to get too far out of posting well do you think there's more to say on that or if we just addressed the question you know like that whether it's anything you want to take a closer look at come back or i feel like we've addressed it but we'd go out saying our practice is not to do it is totally changed from what it would have been before we got here and that we go out to test deeper and more frequently than what was done in the past so i think we've addressed that time will tell on that but the practices you're seeing across the stage people are recognizing that if i do significant amount of geotech work up front which we do then i resolve a lot of those issues actually i'll give you just take one more uh swing at this another version of the comment that i hear is our local roads don't seem to when they're really done don't seem to last as long as the state ones when we could go to their specs that might be something we need to talk about on like that that sounds like a bigger conversation so maybe we should just have a we could just add to the matrix we'll just okay the city standard versus state state design standards so city city standards versus things that i would i imagine it would be different but be an interesting discussion sure right appreciate that uh anything else for the matrix uh for the matrix but we've got street and one of those street closer report on that yeah i was just going to say you could take 11 off because we talked about that today unless just if you guys could give us a brief update after the meeting with the and that's pretty much we close it all out okay so let's move on to g2 any questions this this is just yeah this is just a minor one unless it got changed yesterday afternoon the signs for the detour for forest bridge still show that northbound is closed through november 10th so we just need to update the date on those signs that people yeah we got that we heard that from a couple of folks we'll make sure that we're doing a better job of policing those when changes happen in the field make sure that they get adjusted and on that safe note um the closure of winter and ankle as well because i know that there's so that's gonna ask a little bit so any update there so yeah we have it on the pia we have it on the website but the i'll send that information out we have a flyer that defines when from where to where and when to when right no i saw that it's just that there it was supposed to be closed and it was not closed yet correct the issue was we're trying to uh and i think we talked to councilor melter about that due to whether they were not able to pay the detour route and that's why i kept on postponing with rains last week and then postponed so we were not we were holding the contractor up because we wanted to close it after the detour was paid in so there were payment missing between the head lead all the way to the south connection right now to the good samaritan so all of that pavement was supposed to be placed before the they closed with that's why there were some delays they couldn't pay it because it was too wet to uh the conditions were pretty harsh last week and it dried out later on and then they will be able to pay that now it's pretty closed maybe the impression impression that the windsor part of that equation was sort of not very movable because it's a drainage issue so what happens now that we've moved it so we've the the date has been shifted it's the it's just that the detour still continues going south through the neighborhood well i understand the detour part i'm just saying i thought there was like uh kind of urgent time pressure on doing the winter closing we were trying to get all that in before the weather took effect and now we're going to be battling the weather while we're doing it we were doing our best to try to take advantage of the last kind of good weather we had but it's the last piece of that drainage we got to get in to be able to really fully pave everything so it's it's got to get that in just to make all this work okay so we're trying it's still urgent to us pretty it is still urgent and but we're still battling the weather yeah okay anything else on street closure report okay um concluding items anybody anything in that case uh i'm on the list yeah but i'll uh close the meeting then at 11 21 according to the computer thanks everyone