>> Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Mobility Committee in the city of Denton.
It's 9 AM, we have a quorum present, so dive into the agenda.
Items for individual consideration, item A is consider approval of the meeting minutes of October 8th.
>> Aye.
>> All in favor?
>> Aye. >> All in favor?
>> Aye. >> All right, minutes are approved.
Item B, receive an updated report and hold the discussion regarding the North Central Texas Council of Governments Policy Bundle Program.
>> Good morning everybody.
I'm Haley Salazar and I'm with the Traffic Engineering Department at the City of Denton, and, let's see.
>> If you could have a view.
>> View.
Thank you.
So I'm here today for the purpose of providing an update to our policy bundle initiatives.
So just some background on what the policy bundle is.
It's a list of policies that we can adopt.
So it is voluntary, and the intent is it's part of Mobility 2045.
And these are, like I said, they're voluntary policies, but
they're strategic initiatives we can adopt that are complementary to the actual build out of infrastructure.
And if we adopt half or more of these, we receive an offset of funds.
So these funds are not cash in hand, they are called TDCs, or Transportation Development Credits, and a credit is $1 million.
We found in August that we satisfied 15 of the 20 initiatives, so we received 0.75 credits,
or $750,000 to use towards qualifying projects.
Just a note on the TDCs, it's population based in terms of the size of the award.
So had we have satisfied all 20 or just 10, it still would have been $750,000.
So here are some of the initiatives that we satisfied that earned us the credits.
So we've got clean fleet, niling restrictions in our air quality, storm water management, safe access to schools, and so on.
So these are ones that we were already doing as a city.
But being proactive, we wanted to take a look at the initiatives that we did not achieve to qualify for these credits.
And we took a look at these initiatives, and wrong way driving and taking actions to reduce wrong way driving stood out as the most pertinent to move forward and investigate.
And that's because we have a lot of corridors along I-35, Loop 288, and then streets within the city of Denton where we've got one way streets.
And while wrong way driving only makes up, the crashes only make up less than 10% of all crashes, it's got the highest fatality rate out of all crashes.
So we wanted to take this seriously and dive in and see what we could do here in Denton.
And so what we're going to need to do is work with the COG staff and RTC to implement the strategies.
We want to work with them because they've already implemented in 2014 strategies in Dallas County as a phase one.
And then phase two, they implemented strategies in Tarrant County.
And during that time, Carrollton as part of Denton County and part of Collin Counties also adopted some of these strategies to move forward and reduce wrong way driving.
In their area.
So this is a safety program and the type will be joint staff coordination.
And what that means is we're going to want to look at our corridors first.
And so that's a partnership with TxDOT.
So the next steps, we're going to locate all of our one way roads.
And luckily, we have a very up to date GIS system.
So it'll be a quick poll of all of the one way streets in GIS.
And we're going to take those and look at our existing crash data and wrong way driving data statistics.
And if necessary, we'll take that and do some studies to provide any supplementary information we need to go ahead and make recommendations to the group.
And that's it.
Do we have any questions?
>> Councilman Briggs.
>> No, just a comment because I'm glad to see the transit and I know that we have transit in there already and air quality.
But since we have someone from DCTA, I just want to go ahead and say that those things are very important for
us here in the city and that the more cars that we can reduce in our city and
the more transit and buses we can add, the better it will be.
>> So we can definitely look at strategies that align with that, as well.
>> So I live on West Oak Street, which is one way, paired with Hickory.
And even within the last week, I had to hunk somebody down who was bearing directly at me.
And with the number of one-way streets we have, I'm sure we'll benefit from any attention on this issue.
But I wonder if you wouldn't mind going back to the list of the other NCT cog ideas.
>> Sure. >> Two slides back.
>> The ones we did or did not?
>> Have not yet done.
>> Okay.
>> And again, I totally understand that these are essentially just ideas for us.
But they're considered ideas, and I'm happy if we can derive a useful inspiration from them.
I note that a couple of them, three of them might dovetail well with the sustainability plan.
And I wonder what your thoughts are.
I mean, have you looked at these and said, wrong way driving, let's do that next?
Or wrong way driving, that's it.
Or do you think there's some opportunity on the others as well, and particularly the first three?
I guess that would be my question.
>> So based on previous discussions that we've had on this particular item,
our goal is to move slowly forward, taking one piece at a time.
So definitely we won't be overlooking or we won't be stopping at the wrong way driving.
We'll move forward and then slowly, I think the roadways part,
I can totally see that being part of our mobility plan, moving short.
That we recommend to bleed street cross-sections for all our street arterial roadway systems.
And then sustainability, definitely we are moving forward.
I think land use strategy is in parking management more on the development side.
But we're working closely with them for the land use plan.
And that dovetails into our mobility plan, yes.
So our ultimate goal is to have all of these somehow getting as close as we can.
And understanding that some of them may not be achievable, just getting diving deeper into that.
But we'll try and hit all of them as much as we can, one at a time.
>> Before I close, Council Member Briggs, I just suggest that you share those first three,
whatever we have on them with the folks who are working on the sustainability plan.
Maybe if you could parallel path, Council Member Briggs?
>> Yeah, I was just going to reiterate the same thing.
I mean, as we're working on the sustainability plan, I mentioned mobility.
That we were working on certain things as well.
So just to make sure that that communication between departments is there.
As we set our goals on air quality and what we can do there.
And sustainable development, that's an aspect of it.
And I know you mentioned that that's development services.
But we also are working on our new codes and updating that as well.
And so if there's a way to slip that in the conversation sooner than later, it would be great.
Especially parking management.
>> This is actually the perfect time -- oh, I'm sorry.
>> I was just going to say, I don't think Pre-Tem was alluding to or Haley
that we're not working with those other departments.
We totally agree with what you're saying.
I think this was just absolutely a attempt at what's a quick plan immediately.
What can we jump into?
The others absolutely require a lot of collaboration.
And should definitely not something that we're not putting on the back burner.
It's just what can we do immediately, very quickly.
And then these other initiatives, we start working with our partners to make sure that happens.
>> Just quickly, exactly, sorry.
>> Well, yeah, I just -- you said very quickly.
But what we're doing now is we're working on our sustainability plans coming very quickly as well.
So that's why I just brought it up.
>> So for our mobility plan, what we've done is gone through the land use data
with the planning and development department.
So we've combed through everything that's possible.
What is the zoning?
What is the future land use?
They're working on their land use map.
So all of that is being incorporated into our mobility.
So yes, there's a lot of coordination going on and we're talking about all these items.
It's just a matter of bringing them forward in this context.
That's what is -- that will happen slowly.
>> Yeah, I don't think you should hear any criticism in this or --
>> No, we don't.
>> Yeah, I mean, it's -- it might be as simple as giving them the opportunity to put it
in their plan as it's planned.
>> Absolutely.
>> Just get on the radar.
>> No, that's very good thoughts.
So we'll make sure that happens.
>> And this is the perfect time to have this conversation
because we're actually ramping up for round three.
So even though we just received notification that we met the initiatives in August
and got that -- the 750,000 come December is when we're going to start planning
to see what we can do to apply again for the next year for subsequent funding.
So we'll absolutely look at all the initiatives again and reach out to the other departments
and see, you know, what's changed since we've done this exercise last year.
So --
>> And to not only just sort of glance right over that, yay, congratulations.
>> Yeah, it's a clear guess.
Great job.
>> Thanks.
>> All right, then, we're done with that, thank you so much.
Have you presented before?
>> I did not mobility.
>> Well, welcome and congratulations on your first presentation of mobility.
>> Well, thank you, I appreciate it.
>> All right, we'll move on to item C, receive a report, hold a discussion
and give staff input regarding the city bike share program,
ridership statistics and program oversight.
>> Good morning, Mark Oliphant, Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordinator for the City.
Today, I'm going to give an update about the bike share program,
just a little background about it and what's going on with it currently.
So the program in its current form began a little over a year ago, August 2018,
and it was a pilot program at first but was approved permanently in May of 2019.
We have one permitted provider currently, it's a company called Veyoride,
and they are working both with the city and with UNT, so we have a fleet
of up to 500 bicycles permitted in the city, 100 within the general city limits,
and 400 on UNT, and Veyoride has a direct agreement with UNT as well,
so it's kind of a three-way relationship.
So, great news, since last year, since this time last year,
we have had an explosion in ridership,
which from my perspective is really a wonderful thing.
Now, sometimes that comes with some collateral issues,
which we'll talk about a little bit, but overall, this is really a wonderful thing.
Veyoride did a great deal of outreach during the summer months
to the incoming freshman class, I don't know what they call it, not indoctrination,
but something like that, where they come in and they teach them all about college life,
and so they went, met with all these groups, told them about how it works,
got them signed up for the app and so forth, so that's a wonderful thing.
There have also been some other changes, so there was a fleet coordinator based here in Denton,
that was Sonia Vasquez, I think some of us are familiar with, she did a really great job,
but they had a change in their leadership, I think in late June,
Sonia went to a different job, and they hired someone else,
but this person has a slightly different title and responsibilities,
so she was a fleet coordinator, and now we have a full-time fleet technician,
and there is a difference in the responsibilities there,
where Sonia was more of a manager, a big picture, had big picture responsibilities,
and this new person has more focus on repair, rebalancing, and things like that,
so there have been some changes.
Within our ordinance, oh yeah.
>> Yeah, you may have just adopted and saying that, but within our ordinance,
do we have a distinction between who's supposed to be on staff and who isn't?
>> No, we just say there needs to be staff members based in Denton,
that's the only requirement, yeah.
And also, so within the ordinance, we do have the ability to levy penalties
if they're not complying with the requirements.
So far, we haven't done that, that has been my call,
I feel like they've been good to work with, and I've gotten good responses and so forth,
but we are due to this huge increase in ridership, I am coordinating with UNT to deal
with this higher volume of ridership, because we did get a number of different complaints
at the beginning of the semester, I think due to a number of different factors,
all of the new riders, unfamiliarity with how it works and so forth,
so we've been working on training users where and how to park correctly,
doing some of those sorts of things.
Let me just show you, so here is the chart, this shows ridership over the last year,
I think essentially since service started here in Denton, and that Mount Everest
on the right there is the ridership that we have had over the last,
basically August and September when school started.
I do have this, I exported this maybe three weeks ago when we were preparing for this,
and I will show you this, I, sorry, I exported this literally this morning,
so you can see we have the huge spike but we are having a drop off a little bit
in ridership generally, I think this is probably due to weather,
and maybe the novelty wore off or something, so that is the very latest sort of ridership,
but we are still way ahead, we are still double of where we were last year,
which to me is a great thing.
>> I'll just comment, in packaged goods that would be a typical trial and repeat curve.
>> Trial and repeat?
>> Yeah, people try and something new and then a certain percent of them repeat.
>> Okay.
>> You know, so not everybody decided it was, you know, great to be frequently,
might settle out, you know, some of the flow would be.
>> Yeah, and it looks like it will settle out higher than it used to be,
which I think is a positive.
Just some quick maps here, so this is showing where generally the bikes are dropped off,
this was as of a couple weeks ago when we prepared all the materials,
very highly concentrated on UNT, this is general ride path areas,
again very highly concentrated on UNT, there are definitely other paths,
but I think it is so heavily used on UNT, such a high percentage of the ridership is
at UNT that it sort of, it makes the outside ridership not appear
with, you know, the way the software is set up.
So, just a little discussion, we, when we got the complaint at the beginning
of the semester, we communicated with the company, brought it to their attention,
this was brought up at the October Committee on Persons with Disabilities meeting
and we had our local representative come and address the committee,
talk about some of this, I think it was good on both ends for the committee to learn
about what exactly is bike share, but also for him to see that if a right of way,
if a sidewalk or something is blocked, that can be a major hindrance
for someone using mobility device or something like that.
So, I think it helped to underline, to make that contact.
Some other things coming up, here at the bottom, so there's both a general
like 24-hour Vail Ride contact, but then we also, our local contact,
Tim Courtney, is absolutely available and hears his, you know, direct contact information.
When we hear from people, we don't send them to Vail Ride.
I received the complaint and communicated directly to them.
>> Council Member Rich, do you have a question?
>> Yeah. So, Tim Courtney, does he live in Denton?
>> Yep.
>> Okay. And so, when he receives the complaint,
he specifically goes and moves the bike?
>> Well, he's the lead, but they have several other rebalancers,
I guess fleet rebalancers.
So, it would depend who's on duty at that time or who's closest to that location.
They use both people on foot or on bikes to move bikes and then they have like a van,
it's like a Ford Transit van that they move around with.
My feedback would just be that I'm really glad that the bikes are being used.
I think it's fantastic that ridership is up, but I also think that we have an ordinance
and a place so that we can hold up our end of the bargain to make sure
that the bikes stay out of the right way.
And so, I just, I want to make sure that if they aren't doing their job,
that we are still enforcing it and we're doing ours.
That would just be my only comment.
I think these bikes are really great to have in the city.
But I also saw three of them yesterday on sidewalks blocking them.
So, and that was just yesterday.
So, I would like to make sure that we're doing our 24 hours,
that we are making them stay true to what they said they would do.
And that if, I remember during the conversation there was something about geo-fencing.
So, if the bike isn't in a correct location, is the rider still being charged?
Is that part of what's going on or was that part of the conversation on geo-fencing?
>> I know geo-fencing is part of it.
I don't know specifically about whether they're still charged.
I thought the bike started making a noise when they went out of the service area.
So, I don't know if it's, if it is a parking thing.
>> Yeah, if we could just find out more about that.
>> Yeah.
>> Because that was my understanding was that if the bike wasn't in a correct location,
then it wouldn't take off or something like that.
So, I could be wrong.
>> A couple things I will add also.
This Thursday, we are having a meeting with the regional Bay of Rides managers
out of Austin, I believe, myself, and UNT to talk about some of these issues
since we're having such higher ridership.
What they were doing last year isn't going to cut it for this year.
And make sure that we are communicating that need.
And I will communicate that to him as well.
I have seen they're working on an educational video.
About correct parking.
I've seen a version of that.
Also, their app, they are adding a feature for employees to be able
to report violations directly in the app.
And communicate directly to the last person who parked it.
Yeah, so those are upcoming efforts with Bay of Rides.
>> That's seven out of seven.
Let's wait until the next page.
Usually there's one that says questions.
[ Laughter ]
That issue is the key issue is making sure to keep them off the sidewalks.
I imagine you saw the social media post the other day
that on Hector Street where three mysteriously appeared in front of,
not that a seven-year-old person couldn't ride, but the constituents
in that age group, three bikes appeared on our sidewalk at night, mysteriously.
They were gone the next day.
No one knows why they were there.
But, yeah, I'm sure that's what we're going to do.
Thank you.
Ready?
>> Yeah, I'm good.
>> Yeah, okay.
Let's move on to item D, receiver report and hold the discussion
about the updates from the Devin County Transportation Authority.
>> Good morning.
>> attorney champion.
>> Freezing cold morning.
I'm Nicole Rucker.
I'm the vice president of marketing and administration at DCTA.
And I'm going to provide some updates.
I will, in full transparency, say that as we get toward the holidays,
things slow down just a little bit.
So I will not have as many updates as I normally do.
But I did just receive word.
And Troy, if I mess this up, speak up.
But yesterday we opened up some ADA infrastructure on McKinney East
of Woodrow right in front of the fountains and the veranda.
So I know that that had been a topic of conversation in the past.
There are a lot of individuals that live there that need ADA requirements.
And that infrastructure was not in place, but as of yesterday it is now.
So hopefully we'll see improved ridership there as well as fewer complaints coming
from those individuals that needed access to a service.
So our big focus right now are really service changes.
We typically do service changes twice a year.
We, right now, are kind of looking at a phased approach.
So the first area that we're really looking at are the Denton Connect routes
on Bonnie Bray in conjunction with the construction completion.
So I know that construction is slated for completion at the end of January.
So we are doing what we need to do right now to kind of revert back to an old iteration
of service that was really successful but that we had to move because of the construction.
So we are preparing internally for what that iteration looks like and how we're going
to communicate it so that as soon as we get the green light from the city
that the construction is complete and that we can automatically communicate with customers
that service has now been rerouted back to Bonnie Bray.
So we just want to be cognizant of any timelines, any construction timelines and make sure
that we're not out there saying we're going to revert service on this day simply because we know
that with weather and some of the unknowns that we need
to be a little bit flexible with that communication.
So what route is that on Bonnie Bray?
>> Impacts Route 7 and also Discovery Park for UNT.
>> Okay.
>> So will it go through the roundabout?
I had the impression that that bus is going to be able to make it through that.
>> No, our hope is that they can.
We're going to find out today.
They've got some temporary lanes open.
>> We're talking about Bonnie Bray and Scripture.
It was designed for buses, for fire trucks, for waste.
They can make it through.
>> Okay.
>> It's just we had asked DCTA not to go through while we were during construction
until we had it open in all directions.
>> Sure. What is contemplated as far as providing service to the new development
in Razor Ranch realizing that it's not there now, it's partly there, but it's supposed to be.
>> I feel like Troy needs a chair.
For those of you who have not heard of Troy Rowley, he's our Vice President of Bus --
I just gave you a promotion.
>> Hey.
>> Director of Bus Operations and Maintenance.
So he is the one that knows those routes inside and out, knows every single stop.
And so I defer to the subject matter expert.
>> Well, thank you.
What we need on the Razor Ranch development -- right now it's all privately held.
It needs to be public.
The streets need to be in front of the city before we can actually drive on them.
>> Sure.
>> So once that takes place, then we can start planning
on putting some sort of service in that area.
Currently we don't service the north side because Wal-Mart does not want us on their property.
Because it's the damage to the lot, I think, is our concern and the traffic.
So we stay on university.
Now on the Razor on the south side, we can put service in there,
but we really need it to be a public street.
>> It would need to be public to plan it, right?
I mean, you must be thinking about it.
>> Yeah, we're thinking about it.
We have plans.
>> Oh, okay.
But we really have to have -- we have to have some infrastructure put on there,
traffic lights, and also it has to be a public street.
>> It's my understanding that we had that conversation a while ago
and there are some public streets on there already, that there were still some that weren't,
but there's some that have.
>> In the Razor Ranch development?
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> So Heritage Trail, it's a public roadway.
Portions of it just have not been constructed or accepted.
And then when the, for example, portion of the scripture,
the culture of the interstate have been constructed.
And then there are the connections between the body and brain have not been constructed.
>> Yeah.
>> This one, friends, is the beauty of having this committee to make these connections.
>> What you have to understand is we need heritage to run all the way through.
>> We completely understand that they are constructing that.
>> And they have also, so the construction of Heritage Trail right now,
there's about 300 or 400 feet where construction was not performed.
Well, they actually had to make it out twice as it was developed in early cracking.
So we're going through a period right now where they're correcting that before we can even open
that piece up and then just to the south of that, punching it all the way through scripture,
that's still the New York First Amendment to do, and he has not completed that yet.
>> So would you mind sharing what your, you know, preliminary thoughts are
about once the roads actually are functioning and the gear is in place,
but you know, how you might wrap through it?
>> Well, right now, actually, we have someone, a consultant that's looking at all that.
So it'd be premature to say that obviously we need to put some sort of transfer point
in there because we have several things that connect in that area.
And it'd be ideal to serve it because we all, you know, there's a lot of service type jobs
in that area that do use our service.
We realize the need that's there.
So we just have to look at it and see how we can get a 30,
35 foot bus in and out of there and with traffic patterns.
>> And we do meet routinely with the city to make sure that we're up to date
on construction that's happening so that we know when we're getting closer to the point
where we can pull the trigger on saying, "Here are some proposed options."
So we kind of coordinate our service modeling in conjunction with our work with the city.
>> And there's a signal plan for university and heritage trail.
We're still waiting on the final approval from TxDOT at the moment.
>> I think it's under, it's under design.
>> Is that okay?
>> I just, all right.
>> So, and we were going through that process of getting them
to actually warrant a signal before it was deemed warranted based
on proposed volumes of text.
That doesn't like to do, but they, somehow they get talked into by our, which is awesome.
And then I'll have to get with you guys on what traffic control is actually planned
for scripture and the other end of the area.
>> Heritage trail and scripture, yeah.
[ Inaudible ]
>> But I would say that Razor Ranch is very high on our,
on our list of areas that need to be served.
It's a weekly conversation, at least in the conversations I'm in.
So, you know, we are very well aware that there's a need, not only for those needing employment,
but also just for those who want to get around and shop or go grocery shopping
or, so it's an indefinite area of focus for us.
>> That's where the land is in question.
>> Yeah.
>> You mentioned, I thought I heard you say you weren't going to move service back
on the body break until after the first of the year.
>> Once the construction is complete, because the city has asked for us
to not operate the bus until that construction is 100%.
>> And my understanding was when we had the temporary road is what we didn't want.
But now that the roundabout is open, it's open in all four directions.
I mean, if you need to have two lanes open to get a bus through,
then it's not properly designed.
I mean, we've got one lane going through on the roundabout.
If you're voting.
>> No, they can go through it now.
We just wanted to move off of it when we were still under construction
and didn't have all lanes open in each direction.
>> So they should be able to move up back to chronic right now,
as opposed to waiting until after the first.
>> Correct.
>> So they don't have to wait until the beginning of the year, is what you're saying.
>> Right. Now that it's open in all directions.
>> Goodness.
>> Yeah, so I believe that there was a discussion that happened yesterday.
>> Early this morning, so.
>> Yeah, so I've talked to Troy and I offered that we meet, our project manager can meet them
and then they can drive a bus and see if there are any barrel moving
or any changes that they think that are needed.
Because we have enough buffer in that area that we can adjust
if they think that their buses cannot make it through.
And then, yes, they can start that.
>> Because currently, you have an unrestricted pattern, right?
So the issues with the temporary lanes right now, so.
>> Okay, so it'd be nice to do the middle of your update.
>> So you were doing that, running that test run?
>> Yes.
>> Okay, so it looks like we will have an update based on the test run.
And then I can e-mail, I can e-mail Mario or Preetam can e-mail the committee
and let you know what the update is.
>> Great.
>> See how quickly we move?
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, just in the last 12 hours.
>> Like water.
>> Yeah.
>> So yeah, we paused you on that item.
>> It's okay.
>> Do you have some more you want to share?
>> Sure, yeah, absolutely.
So we do offer some on-demand service in the Denton Enterprise area.
We call it the Denton Enterprise Airport Zone.
We've been running that service for about a year and a half.
We've been looking at, do we potentially modify the service?
Or do we remove the service in totality?
And the recommendation that we are taking to our board in early December
is that we are going to be removing that service as a whole.
We have very low ridership on that service.
We've been keeping our board apprised of that issue
and some of the modifications that might be made.
And the final recommendation is to go ahead and just remove that service in completion.
>> What about, like, there's Peterbilt, there's the Target Distribution Center,
there's Tetra Pak, there's a lot of other places out there.
Is there another bus stop or in there?
Because it's very important that we see transportation as a basic service to get people to their jobs.
>> Absolutely. So the one really unique thing about that area is that,
because it is very well defined,
we have great working relationships with all of the businesses in that area.
And so we have been, myself included, multiple times to those businesses to say,
how can we best offer transportation services?
What are your employees needing from transportation services?
A lot of those organizations out there provide their own transportation service.
So whether it's a van or, most of them are like a 10 to like a 15 person passenger van.
And so the consensus has been that they don't need the transportation in that area.
We currently have three people using the service.
And they're using it consistently.
And so we are working with those three individuals
to come up with another modification for them,
in order for them to still use transit to get to work.
But we're running a fairly expensive service for three individuals.
It's not the best use of funding.
And we feel like we're confident that there are other ways that we can get those individuals to work.
I will continue to reach out to those businesses and maintain those relationships.
And should something change?
I mean, the whole reason that we were able to launch this pilot service
was because there was interest from businesses.
And so we're pretty responsive as far as if there's a big group of people
that need to use transit to get out there.
We're willing to be flexible and nimble to kind of put service out there.
But thus far, it has not been as successful as what we had anticipated.
So are you confident that it will be around the same price?
You said you're confident you can find other services for them to get them to work.
We believe that to move those three people is going to be significantly cheaper.
So we've got some great partnerships with Lyft,
where we can actually subsidize a Lyft trip for someone.
And so rather than us doing that first loss mile connection,
Lyft can provide that service.
And it is significantly less expensive.
And maybe that's another kind of tool in our tool belt that we utilize to determine
what gets people to and from where they need to go in that specific area.
Versus us putting an operator in a bus out there to rent service that's not being utilized.
But I will continue those relationships.
We'll continue those conversations.
And again, if there's a need, we really do our best to be as responsive as we possibly can.
And certainly, if any of you hear of anything from any of those businesses out in that area,
please let me know.
Because I always try to stay as engaged as possible with them.
Because we like to be offering more service out there.
But we need folks to utilize it.
So that recommendation will be going to our board next month.
The plan is to kind of pull that service in early February.
Obviously, making sure that those who do currently use that system are taken care of
and have a plan that it does not interrupt how they are getting to and from where they need to go.
And then the last kind of service change that we are looking at, and I mentioned last month,
is through our transformation initiative.
And so we are coordinating with some external vendors to kind of look at
our entire service area as a whole.
And looking at it almost like from scratch.
So not looking at our existing service, but really more looking at the landscape of our service area.
And what type of service offerings would be the most beneficial to provide.
One that would get folks where they need to go.
But also would show an increase in ridership.
And so we are pretty excited about that.
We are looking to bring a consultant, a recommendation for a consultant to our board.
My hope is in the first quarter of 2020, originally we were slated for January.
But we were having some conversations with our three member cities about that scope of work.
And so making some modifications, and so it may be pushed to February
that we would be bringing that consultant to our board for approval.
But then that conversation is really going to help inform
topics that we talk a lot about here.
So like our service standards.
So what warrants a bench at a bus stop?
What warrants a shelter at a bus stop?
What do we do with all of the existing bus stop amenities that we have
or that currently aren't being used?
How do we utilize those to the best of our ability to provide those amenities to our riders?
So we're really excited about this project.
Because we think that it will kind of revolutionize not only the service that we provide.
But also kind of the standards at which we provide that service.
So we're very excited about that.
And then just an update that yesterday we did kick off
the inclement weather shuttle that we operate in conjunction with the city of Denton.
And so anytime the temperature either goes above a certain degree or below a certain degree,
we work very closely with the city to implement shuttles to get individuals to shelters.
And so we communicate that out to not only the Denton social service agencies,
but also the Louisville social service agencies.
Because the capacity is so limited in Louisville that a lot of times they
send their folks northbound to Denton since Denton has more beds available.
And so we did launch that inclement shuttle last night and then obviously this morning
to get people back to where they need.
But we're working very closely with the city because we have some cold nights coming
that we want to make sure that we're providing that human service
as well and making sure that people are staying warm.
How did it go?
Did people find their way to the buses?
They typically do.
I mean this is I think the fourth time that we've launched the shuttle.
We have a really good network of communication that as soon as the city says yes we need it,
that we work with Monsignor King and Serve Denton and Salvation Army
to determine kind of openings available.
And then we send that out to all the social service agencies
and then they communicate to their folks.
I don't know if we have any ridership numbers.
Do you have any?
I don't have any.
You don't want some of this?
Okay.
But we can, I can follow up.
Sure.
We'll be running the services again tonight.
Thank you.
Yeah, so we'll follow up with ridership just to let you know.
So that's been a pretty successful partnership.
It's been so successful that we're actually looking at doing it
with the city of Louisville as well.
So it's kind of served as a model for this type of service.
And then just the fun news.
Denton Holiday Lighting is coming up in Wasslefest.
So December 6th and we're providing free service
with the code word either Holiday Express
or Denton County Friends of the Family Holiday Express
or any variation thereof.
So just trying to get people.
It's a really big weekend in Denton.
So you have the Holiday Lighting, you have Wasslefest
and then the following day on the 7th you have the Holiday Express event
that we partner with the Denton County Friends of the Family on.
And so just really encouraging folks to use transit.
We had banner numbers last year for the Holiday Lighting,
encouraging people to park at our Med Park station,
use the train to get in.
So we're really hoping for a repeat this year.
So we're working very closely with the committee for that event
to just get people into downtown and use transit to get there.
I hear there may even be an ice skating rink this year.
Oh, well that's exciting.
Hopefully it's not actually at the streets.
Yeah, so that concludes my report.
If there are any questions or topics I can get some answers for
and give back to the committee.
I'm happy to do so.
Yeah, I just have a question because we're talking about all the growth out west with Hillwood.
That's exactly what I was going to ask.
Yeah, and Alliance.
I mean, are we talking about the consultant and planning?
Is that on your radar?
I mean, because we have an opportunity now to start planning that
so we're not doing it after the fact.
Yes, so we've actually been working with the Alliance area
for probably the last two years.
We offered a service out there last year.
The issue with Alliance is that we have a reciprocal agreement
with our regional transit partners
and one half of Alliance is Tarrant County
and one half of Alliance is Denton County.
And so it makes it really difficult to provide service to the entire area
because Trinity Metro provides the service that's for the Tarrant County portion.
So currently, we were joint partners in providing a service out there last year.
It was well used, but it was very expensive.
And so Trinity Metro took over the partnership
and offers what they call zip zone service.
It's through Lyft and they leverage our interlocal agreement with Lyft
to provide that service and it provides that first class mile connection
and connects people to North Texas Express,
which is a partnership bus service that runs from Denton to downtown Fort Worth
that we partner with Trinity Metro on.
So we are currently serving that area,
but the actual service that's kind of happening in the zone
where all of those businesses are located
is managed by Trinity Metro through their zip zone service.
But Alliance is the topic.
Another topic is the coal hunter ranch development
that we're going to be asked to deal with in the coming months.
And I'm curious if you've had preliminary conversations
with the Hillwood people if there's any thoughts
about how to integrate public transportation in that whole thing.
It's going to add close to 40% to our population if it goes according to plan.
It'll be about the size of Denton.
Okay.
We have a representative from Hillwood on our board.
So let me circle back because I have not been
in any of those meetings or discussions,
but that does not mean that they're not happening.
I am sure that our planning folks are very...
I know they meet with Hillwood regularly,
but I don't have any details to share.
But let me follow up and find out what's going on
and I'll include that in my recap that I sent to the group for sure.
Thank you so much for coming and filling us in.
Absolutely. And if there are any topics that this group would like to discuss moving forward,
feel free to let Becky know or she can contact me
and let me know what you guys want to talk about.
Or if you want an actual physical presentation of anything,
we're happy to customize whatever you need.
Happy forward comments if you want to follow them through me as well.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Let's move on to item E, receiver of work.
And hold the discussion regarding TxDOT on system projects in the Denton area.
$2.4 billion, every way in and out of Denton.
Under construction.
There you go.
It's frustrating when you get...
When I get caught in traffic and I know there's no hope,
because I hope we're all the problem.
But the good news is there is significant improvements being made throughout the city of Denton.
$2.3 billion, sorry I overstated it.
$2.2 billion.
Well, $2.8 billion.
$2.8 billion.
You always go up with these numbers, unless you're having to pay for it and go down.
All right, so first off, like I said,
we send these reports out about two weeks in advance coming here today.
So the NOVA...
Did I do that?
What?
That happens to me too.
Ghost?
No, you have not.
Oh yeah, that was happening to me the other day.
Yep.
So.
It's not an actual like pre-Tem program that happens.
The November 11th start date is actually now November 25th.
We had another conversation with them and they said it would not be the 11th.
It was yesterday.
It'll be the 25th.
So when we resubmit the report, we'll update that.
But Zachary's on.
And we'll update the full schedule once we get a better schedule from Zachary on what
their timing is.
They were awarded back full 500 plus days of the original contract.
So we're starting from scratch.
550 working days assumes how many days a week?
This is a six day contract, six days a week contract.
But it also, it's 588 without, that's one of the negotiations we have without weather
delays.
So.
Okay.
Do the math.
I don't know.
Just wait a couple of years.
Yeah, at least.
So what I normally do is when they give us the schedule, they tell us how long they're
going to be having the barricades up and that's how long they think it will take them.
And we just look at that date and give it to you.
That's what I'll do when I update the report when I get it.
We don't have the full schedule yet.
But two years-ish.
Yeah.
1.8 years.
How many?
1.8 years.
Well, 2 and a half.
With weather.
I'm going to go with they don't get weather days.
They don't get weather?
They don't get weather days.
Oh, oh, oh, okay.
So you said that November 25th is the date that they're going to actually physically
be out there starting to work?
Yes, but the contract told them that their time started being charged October 12th, I
think, was the date.
So they're already into their time, but they won't be mobilized until the 25th,
which is what they agreed to when Berkshire Hathaway executed the agreement.
All right, and then your Fort Worth Drive project.
The bridge closure occurred for the railroad.
My notes are over there, so I'm having to do this from memory.
So we're wrong.
I apologize.
And the demo for the existing bridge will begin on the night of the 15th, and there'll
be some closure between 18th and 25th, through 18th to 25th for this demolition project.
So we'll get that too.
I think the mobility meeting is this week for our mobility task force.
Yeah, it's Thursday.
And so we'll have - why are you doing that?
I'm not doing anything.
It just happens.
So we'll have the actual - excuse me?
It's when pre-tem blinks.
It's a butterfly effect.
So we'll have the actual dates for the closure notification to the city prior to that on
Thursday.
So that's coming up.
It might be my jacket because there's a keep over here.
My apologies.
I have other qualities.
Presentations aren't one of them.
Okay, so then your Mayhill project.
This project has several parcels that we're acquiring all the way up through to 288.
We're looking at a May 2021 let date, and we are assuming the plans will be done in
December for a 95% plan.
So we're on track with everything, and we're coordinating and working with the city on
their utility relocation.
So this project is fully funded and on track for a May 2021 let date.
Okay, so your Brinker project.
Let me flip it here.
So you're going to be having the - we had some of the southbound firms road improved
this past weekend, and by Thanksgiving we're going to have all the traffic in their proper
locations on the main lanes.
So they're probably in a week or so we'll be moving some traffic around to pave the
last third lane in both directions adjacent to that concrete barrier building and then
substantial completion on this project.
We'll be just prior to Thanksgiving, so we should see some moving coming in that area
fairly quickly.
I know it's painful.
Do you have an update on Brinker?
I mean, can somebody please tell me when that's going to open?
So they're going to construction on that as soon as the AFA is executed.
Our crews will be installing the signaling equipment.
The OHL subcontractor has not.
For a variety of reasons that TXDOT understands they have not gotten the signal equipment in,
so we offered the option that we would go to do that just to get it open a lot quicker.
The AFA had some issues that council approved.
It's got the Austin actually returns the long-form version instead of the short-form version.
There were some concerns about that as you will actually approve the council approved
the short-form version. Concerns about the language in that the long-form version is
actually coming to you today to be approved.
It's just it's basically a revised document.
It's the same agreement.
No changes substantially.
I'm not going to try to speak to that.
It's just that there were commitments in there that said you had approved that document when
you actually had it.
You'd approve the short-form version.
So if that comes through today, as soon as that's approved, then we can mobilize our contractor.
You've used some initials, some A, what is that?
Advanced Funding Agreement.
Okay.
You're being paid, the state's paying you to do the signal because it's something that
they were going to pay OHL to do.
You offered to do it instead, but you wanted to be paid for it as proper protocol.
The concern was is that if we got going too far ahead of the Advanced Funding Agreement
approved and executed by both parties, that we could potentially not get
reimbursed for some of those items.
So we absolutely did not want to start that work until the AFA was complete.
And then we could get fully reimbursed for the work we're doing.
So one question you may ask is if y'all execute that today,
y'all have the ability to docusign?
Is that true or not?
Yes.
So it can be fairly fast after that.
But our traffic operations folks have already been working on getting materials
on order, ready to go, and then our contractor will be ready to move as quickly as possible.
Brian, I think you guys have talked to Bean about getting mobilized.
Right.
Upon approval of the AFA, they're ready to go pick up their equipment,
check stop, and move into place in construction.
Promise we'll do it next week.
So and construction, what started?
Because it's just insulated.
Is that like a big deal or?
It's not huge since it's all shut down.
But there will be traffic controls that move as they move through different corners.
Realistically, just given that the period of the year we're in,
we see these cold fronts come and go.
We're having some rainy conditions.
We will have to set foundations and a bunch of other things.
It will most likely be by the...
I would say it's probably not going to be in and functioning and fully open until after Christmas.
So next year?
Yeah, but the contractor we have mobilized on this, they're efficient.
Once they're engaged, they'll get through as quickly as possible.
Thank you.
Okay, on the I-35E, W-MERGE.
I'm sorry, did I get something else?
I'll pause those.
No, I've just, if you could follow up with us on why we approved a short
thing instead of the long thing that later on, that would be...
It was, that was absolutely what came out of the district office.
They sent us a red line version for, and because we were trying to expedite it,
we executed faster than what they're used to expecting.
So we just missed the step.
Sounds like it was a mistake.
It was, well, it was good intentions.
It's different than a mistake.
Part of what happened there is there's a group in the area office,
the district office in Dallas, that handles a lot of the upfront conversation
with most communities on the funding piece.
So they put the document together.
We executed on our side, and then it had to go to Austin to get approved.
When I got to Austin, they said, time out.
We don't want this one, we want this one.
That's when Austin was willing to go with and then kick back to us.
So that's where that broke down.
So the real deal on this one was there used to be a master agreement
with local governments that TxDOT had.
And the short form was that based on all these different things
that are master agreements, here's a short version
of what we're doing in this agreement.
That was sent, and that was a different way of doing things around for the longest time.
What has happened between the time that was sent to us
and with this new advanced funding agreement
is the Austin office decided that that no longer is the way to do things
because there was a lot of change in the master agreement
and the time we did there.
So they're like, we're executing only moving to the advanced funding agreement
as opposed to the LEPAFA, which was the local agency or government agreement.
And so if you've never seen your master advanced funding agreement,
you're fortunate because the people who had executed the first time
had to have some temerity about them
because it basically says you're responsible for everything the state does.
And then they come back and say, but on this project, all you got to do is X.
That's the short version.
But the first time you execute that agreement,
there's a lot of words in there that scare you.
So after Christmas.
Okay, your merge project.
Again, we're in the process of acquiring the parcels on this project.
We've got them down to 12 negotiations out of the 15 and three are an appraisal.
We are looking at a ready to let of July 2021.
The difference between the tech stock consent connect let date and ours is
that's where they put the money when they approve the category 12 or clear lines funding.
But if we can get it ready sooner than that, then they'll move it up
to that current year, which is what we're shooting for.
And this is from the wishbone up to 380.
Then on the next project, I told you, I apologize.
I I've been asked this thing.
I just don't remember this.
Is this project or is it the one that goes from 380 North that will take care of the
congestion on the exit ramp onto university?
Right.
It's this one and this next section.
So you'll see that we broke it up.
We broke it out to say for North segment is segment one,
because we're going to do segment one to 77 with the merge project.
So there are two different CSJs, two different funds amounts,
but they're going to be combined as one job.
So this one plus this segment takes care of all of the
issues from 77 South to the marriage on 30 on 35.
I think that the timing of construction is something that we've been talking about with
tech stock now that they unlock both of these projects.
But at the same time, there's a meeting
we'll be having with them over the next two weeks for the
district office understands our concerns.
They're coming up here to actually have that conversation about how do we sequence this
in such a way that we can try to manage the traffic
flows that are absolutely going to fall.
Yeah.
That's all it was to construction.
I'm sure you've covered this.
Can you remind me what specifically will be done within the
two projects that will address that specific issue?
Absolutely.
Exit onto university.
So on the Wishbone project, what is included in the 35E project that was
environmentally cleared back in 2012 is three lane frontage
roads and both sit on the north and south bound, but braided ramps.
So right now what you have is everybody's fighting to get from 35W on to 35.
People on 35W and 35E trying to get to 38 and they're all fighting in about a thousand feet
of real estate.
What we're doing is we're called it's called braided ramp where both of those
ramps need to be in the same place to get on and get off.
And so the on ramp will be at grade.
I believe it's the case where it's off.
We flip the grade.
On ramp from?
From 35 to 380.
And then there's going to be a on ramp at the same place from the frontage road to 35
and there'll be braids.
So one will go under and the other go over.
So you have fighting.
You're not fighting.
Plus we're adding the third lane on the frontage roads.
Plus we're adding a second lane on 35W because right now if you're coming north
on 35W you have to get down to one lane and then basically merge on to to 35.
So there'll be a ramp from 35W to 380 in the end?
I mean, correct.
You'll be able to come 35W two lanes on to 35.
And then right there you'll be able to take an exit and go either under or over the on ramp
and just land right in and go into 380.
I believe it's the exit ramp is at grade because the development cares how you get there.
They don't care how you leave.
That's one of the breaks.
I was just going to say I think that this may be our priority project.
Oh, yeah, right.
Because the regional group keeps asking us.
Well, is it priority for implementation or priority for funding?
Is this project fully funded?
Implementation, I guess.
Or are they asking for funding?
They're wanting for a project that you want funded.
Oh, OK.
This is $880 million of full funding.
So it's fully funded.
Fully funded.
This is one of those deals where I tell you.
Fund that again.
This is why I tell you we do faith-based engineering, right?
Because you don't have to have the money in order to go through the regulatory process.
But if you have the money like we do have the money here and
aren't through the regulatory process, you still can't do it.
So we just start on the process knowing that someday he'll get funded.
And so when is this supposed to be?
Exactly.
So right now, that's what I was explaining.
You have two dates here for let dates.
You have a ready to let date in July 2021, which is what we think
state and the city and everybody can get their collective act together to do.
Right now, it's plugged in 2023 for clear language.
What we can do is accelerate that date.
We cannot go past that date.
So what can be done? Would it require greater funding to complete the project in less time?
So most of these projects that they're doing now, they do what's called A plus B
bidding, which I'm not a big fan of it because if anything goes wrong,
you're toast at the end of it.
But A plus B is you bid it a dollar amount, but you select on who says they can do it
for the fewest number of days.
So I'm assuming that that's there.
They've been doing it a lot lately.
2181 was an A plus B. So we got creamed on that one.
Yeah. What are you trying to say?
So yes, they do try to do it in a manner because A plus B typically,
supposedly, you know, in the real world or perfect world, gets rid of the bad contractors.
We got the best bad one.
We got that same one on four out of the five projects they have at State of Texas.
You get the most eager bidders anyway.
Not the same thing as the best bidder.
So the answer is yes, this project and the next segment
includes all of the issues we need to solve all the problems in this part of the world of Denton.
The segment on the 35E all the way to 380 will include the infrastructure
because ultimately this project has Manning's Lanes coming all the way through Denton.
Right now they stop in the Lake Cities area because we didn't buy and reconstruct all of
35 through the Lake Cities of Denton. We just, we had capacity where we had the right of way.
This project will add the Manning's Lanes infrastructure so when the
section to the south gets built that project will already be open and ready to run.
So that's the merge and we're looking at July 2021 let date and then the section to the north is a
little bit behind schedule but we think if we pull this segment out, if this is the same date as you
have on the section to the north here we're fairly confident that we can get that date ready to go
that date. It's the same as the previous project but again this is where we're going to add the
frontage roads, fix the alignment of 77, 288 will be solved because there's a you know danger between
380 and 288 from the on ramp so all this gets resolved. Okay all these projects segment one,
segment two and the merge is if you add it all up it's about 880 million dollars and it's all
fully funded. I'm sorry for slowing my comprehension but I'm just digesting what you just shared about
how the braided lanes resolve that issue and I'm wondering does it push just push the
problem to another absolute conflict point? Yes sir that's why we're doing segment one
of the next project because the next conflict point after scripture and all that where a razor
is is the 380 intersection. Right yeah because you got you got a lane coming from the 35 west
over you got a lane from the frontage road going on to 380 you got a lane from 35 east going there
and now they're all trying to get on to 380. So that's why we're doing the next little segment
here because that fixes all of that issue so it takes the frontage road and improves it all the
way through to 77 and that's what you need to make that intersection under 380 work is a functioning
frontage road north that's not trying to get on to 380 exactly okay but what about the fact that
you've got these three different sources that now each have their separate lane uh separate ramps
to get on to 380 what about the part where they 380 are they in conflict there right in other words
you got a lane a ramp from if i understood you correctly a ramp from 35 west going on to 380
good a ramp or a lane from the 35 e frontage road going on 380 you got to and then you got a way to
get the frontage road 35 e proper 35 west proper they've all got lanes going on to 380 in the
future wall right so don't they kind of collide at that point of contact they do really end up
merging so if you've driven 635 or any of those areas where they don't have a variety of braided
ramps yeah they do merge so absolutely they they kind of merge together so you're not going to get
three lanes dumping directly on to the frontage roads and 380 so they'll sort of merge over time
and they'll get that traffic and basically one singular line coming into the frontage road
plus right now the frontage roads that you have out there are not full constructed with that they will be
so we're going to be adding lanes to the frontage road so your far right lane if they want to come
northbound and turn right on 380 that'll be a general flow and the traffic wants to turn left
we'll have dual lefts but they'll have additional lanes in order to not because what happens is you
can't even get over to take a right when you're exiting so we're adding lanes to the frontage
road so we're also going to take some of the noise out of the problem because people aren't trying to
get out of exit but uh isn't that still where it's going to back up though and that that single lane
that they all search down to we're also adding more capacity and a new interchange on Windsor
we're currently working with tech stock to add that design so Windsor is just north of 380 a lot
of the neighborhoods that reside in that particular area do use university currently to exit and take
university to Bonnie Grant some of the neighborhoods north so that noise will be removed from that
interchange and pulled further north so that it exits further and connects to Windsor so that
we're trying to progress it's a little all of it okay but we're carrying we're carrying the
improvements before we were just carrying up to 380 which doesn't solve the problem yeah we're now
taking them all the way past 288 to 77 which that's where that's the funnel part that stops
the traffic from being able to function through that area because there's a lot of traffic that
wants to go west there's a lot of traffic that wants to go east and right now they're fighting
for essentially two lanes yeah all right i think i'm calmer for the moment i know we haven't we'll
hear about this many times between now and then you'll experience it too yeah thank you
so segment two is the same project it's fully funded takes it from 77 all the way up to the
county line and it'll be six lane divided urban with what they call two three frontage roads so
there'll be three frontage roads between the on ramp off ramp and the on ramp and then two
at the intersection
main lanes on 35 we're back to designing these and getting an environmentally cleared we're still
haggling over a little bit of the traffic that we think we've got that resolved
and so we're thinking about this time next year ish we should have the project environmental
clear which will mean we can start protecting it from a development standpoint a lot of people
are wanting to make sure that 35w doesn't end up looking a whole lot like what 35e
does in some areas where it's a whole lot of district mall work and so this will allow us
to protect the corridor our frontage road project we are looking at environmental clearance this
coming summer and at that point we've submitted the project for clear lanes again and once we
get environmentally cleared we can select the sections of 35w frontage roads we want to construct
that make the most sense and right now what the pressure looks like is it's in the northern half
of this segment within the city of den 380 east this project's got a february 2021 let date in
totality we're probably going to move the green one up as i've told you last time the state needs
to lead a project in the 2020 fiscal year in there probably about a month away from splitting
this job out so we'll do the green section first and then the blue section second
loop 288 again we're just now got the traffic approved from austin and so now they're back on
to finalizing those so that we can do a public hearing so we can get environmentally cleared
spring of next year that allows to protect the corridor which is important because this area is
getting encumbered by the day and this also involves we've had some close coordination with
the coal ranch hillwood folks to make sure what we're doing on the 288 section in the south is
consistent with what their development calls for this one is not this one is fake based engineering
but uh we feel confident that once we get it cleared and start because they're going to start
acquiring the right away because i don't so this project has been on the books and around for
20 years and we've county's been starting and stopping starting and stopping based upon what
tex dot told us to do and about two years ago tex dot said we need to get the loop
done start the engineering again so we've re-engaged hntv i mean chain patel and so
it was text that district telling us get the project cleared because we want to start acquiring
the right away and we want to build a loop so we feel fairly confident once we get it environmentally
cleared you should see some speed on this project pick up from a funny standpoint would this be
considered a priority in our city for our engineers hey reserve the right to not answer that question
well i think we need to talk about that a little bit uh but this is i think the re what you need
to look for and i know this is kind of uh sometimes difficult to do the reason i don't
think you'd prioritize this is a priority because it's already a priority for the district and you
want to get you want to leverage your money as much as possible so you want to pick something
that they're not already interested in let me make a suggestion that uh when we get through you know
the updates can we just have a little discussion specifically about that what
i think it might be you know that's the right order let's let's go okay
1515 all right so uh we are in the process of getting this project environmentally cleared next
year we've got to get some information from the city on the new location of the roundabout on the
west end and uh we still need to have some coordination with the uh the engineering firm
doing the wishbone for tech stock to make sure that we're tying 1515 and bonnie bray and consistent
with those plans so there's some coordination but again this project is planned to be cleared next
year by this time just a question about the roundabout is the roundabout going to be
as large as the one on bonnie bray most likely to be larger larger for the trucks yeah okay thank you
i was going to try to answer that but i'm probably doing it around about way and i wouldn't
i'm glad you didn't answer okay fm 1173 again this is a project the district asked the
the county to pick up and an address so the county did this project is about 44 million bucks
really right it reroutes it to morto consistent with the current plan from the city and that
interchanges and the plans for the 35 project that's funded and so we're uh working on getting the
schematic approved which will then inform us on how long it will take to get the project environment
clear and then again i've met with tech stock i think two weeks ago they are planning on having
a firm on contract by end of year that's all they'll commit to and at that point they'll have
somebody to do the study on a limited access facility so it'll be a freeway instead of an
arterial which is kind of you know a divided facility so we'll be able to start populating
this probably after the first of year and then bonnie bray phase uh seven that's the uh segment
that's green we're working with cog and funding on the section in blue we've already got that
and the tip and they're partnering with us on that project uh we carry this because it's a project
that city needs in order for bonnie bray to work properly but again it's a project that cog is has
said all right city you're doing your part south of here we're going to work with tech stock to
make this connection and so we're just keeping you informed that we're slowly moving towards
getting that project we've already got a schematic that we think works the city did and so now we're
just moving towards getting cog and tech stock to have it funded i believe that's it so yeah can we
look at the list and have council member phrase yeah before we talk about the list i have a question
about 428 in the loop that we're experiencing right there yeah this update because i am aware
that there are two more large apartment complexes coming in or proposed there one on point when set
it right next to the palladium and that's coming really soon and then i think one across the street
are over there and so this is going to be really important for us to know what's happening right
here so at the intersection we are widening the number of planes under the bridge so that
the bridge footprint is pretty wide and we have some space to expand under the bridge so we're
adding capacity adding term lanes under the bridge as well as signalizing those two intersections so
at the interchange it will be signals with a widened capacity enhanced capacity currently
text dot has okayed us to go with always stops so it's functioning it would function as a signal
is if you have to come in always stop add those intersections so so you mean there's just going
to be when you say always stop it's a four-way stop signs for now until we get to the construction
we're going through the textile improvement process for the signals as well as the capacity
and that will be a long form
so this is a this this list that we have here is not a comprehensive list of
of everything you're working on it's just the on system primarily or those that have got top funding so
that was the statement in case there was other projects but do you think there might be something
that would be a contender for being our top priority that's not on the list well you have
a bond program right that has projects on it that are anticipating leveraging one project that
is definitely on that list for us or more text I'm sorry you just need a letter for us
unless the whitey 1830 so they'd be they have funding and are very interested in
falling divided 1830 from hickory through the road all the way north up to Hobson Hobson to 377 is
already getting white but 377 so that is definitely one heavy traffic movement that we need to make
sure it gets mobilized quickly just would you view that as a higher priority than anything that's on
this list again where john is is and what he's mentioned is is that there those are already on
the high priority list for the state just their funding means they're actively engaged in these
1830 they're ready to go they just need to know we're ready to go so that's something they would
absolutely be willing to work forward on we just gotta let them know it's time to go now there are
implications to that and that is you've got the hickory creek connection that's made with the bond
program but as soon as 1830 gets widened to four lanes now we're starting to work through on the
engineering side if i don't go past 1830 with that hickory creek connection which right now
tenses down at brush creek road if we don't carry that past 1830 still has to make this big winding
curve as opposed to the potential that if hickory creek were to continue to go then 1830 could t in
and we have a an intersection that's easier to control we take those big sweeping curves out
and then two lane 1830 would continue south so those are all alternatives we're having to work
through the textile right now we don't know the answer to those but if that's a priority
we want to push we would absolutely have to accelerate going forward what does that look like
you know keep this up because it seems like something you want to ask about
yeah that was uh i'm just gonna have to look at what that looks like because i've never in our
conversation that was kind of brush creek what was the point of contention for how wide that
wants to be and so making that a priority and not even really understanding the full scale of it
that's why we haven't really rushed into that without having that broader conversation about
anything else on this item are you talking about pedestrian scramble okay
so item f closing envy open item f receiver report and hold the discussion regarding the
implementation of an exclusive pedestrian phase in the traffic signal operations of the downtown
intersections and oak and elm oak and locust hickory and elm and hickory and locust as a pilot program
i know i just i had the power point
okay brian yeah i tried to get you here today talk to you about traffic signals pedestrians cars and
how we propose to make a few of them work a little more safely together so a little background on
traffic signals and pedestrians historically the way they've operated is a vehicle will pull up to
a stop bar a pedestrian will walk up to the accessible ramp push the button the car if
they're going in the same direction the car gets the green and the walk light goes on at the same
time so everybody starts moving the problem with that is that somebody's at an intersection that
wants to make a right turn in a vehicle they start their right turn the same time the pedestrian
steps off the curb likewise if they're on the pedestrians on the other side they begin their
movement the same time that somebody who's going to turn left begins there so we've got a conflict
point with pedestrians and vehicles in crosswalks now one of the ways we've tried to address this
at certain intersections that have a little bit higher turning movements and higher pedestrian
volumes is what we do call a leading pedestrian interval so they get about five or six seconds
for the walk sign before the car gets to great it gets to be it gets the pedestrian out in the
crosswalk very visible so as that person begins to make their turn they can see them and we don't
eliminate the conflict but we make the pedestrian a lot more visible to the driver however as
pedestrian volumes and traffic volumes increase we need some different tools and one of the tools
that we're looking at as a pilot program is an exclusive pedestrian phase or as our public
outreach team has named it the all-walk crosswalk so what happens with the exclusive pedestrian
phase or an all-walk crosswalk is the vehicles yeah the vehicles get a red light and the
pedestrians get a walk in all directions so there's no conflict between pedestrians and vehicles
we plan to implement this around the square so if you can picture
oak, hickory, logiston, elm a lot of one-way traffic so you'll have all the cars stopped
somebody will have to push the button and then all the crosswalks at all four of the any of the four
intersections all the crosswalks get a walk at the same time so this is not a true texas scramble
although we're we're looking at that for future implementation we can't cross diagonally we're
just going to cross in the existing crosswalks which is why they all walk crosswalks moniker
really works for us you can cross any direction north south east to west so our our plan is to
give them enough time to cross the longest that that walk time will be the time that's required
across the widest approach so you'll have plenty of time to safely get across to the next corner
and then the vehicle traffic one direction will go and then the other direction will go so it's
it's kind of a we're trying to keep the time about the same we're just moving it around
in a different direction yeah why not yeah i have some questions that people have asked me
but why not the diagonal so this is we're doing it as a texas two-step this is our pilot program
we want to see how the public and the businesses receive the pedestrian phase right now those
intersections aren't geometric they're physically not designed to allow the diagonal for accessible
needs users so what we would have to do if we want to do the true texas scramble or the pedestrian
scramble we'd have to change the ramps right now they're directional so you're going directly
across the street and then directly across the street to a what we used to do is that intersection
that corner load where you have the ramp that can go it's really widened up to go this way or that
way or shoot you straight across we don't have the markings or the ramps in place right now to
allow that diagonal certainly can be done but we want to test the waters and see how it's received
and we believe there's some significant safety aspects that will be seen as we move forward
with this pilot program i want to make sure i'm tracking uh as you go uh i probably already said
this like you have this exclusive pedestrian phase but then do you also have the sort of
traditional pedestrian no when the when the when the cars get to green the pedestrian is not allowed
to move and so here's this is a disadvantage just advantages for both drivers and pedestrians
the pedestrians don't have to worry about getting hit by car turning and when that light goes green
for the cars they don't have to worry about a pedestrian stepping off and causing a delay or
a conflict point as they're making a turn the through traffic will move just like it always does
but the right turn and the left turn will be they'll have the free right away now one of the things
this does that we'll talk about in the future in the slide but it does restrict the ability to take
a right on red or a left on red so we'll have no turns on red all cars stop pedestrians go
pedestrians stop and the cars go one direction at a time but they no longer have that conflict
they don't have to worry about somebody stepping off the curb right when they're trying to make a
turn so we actually get a little efficiency in both pedestrian and uh motorists with this approach
okay can you want that one more time that the the traffic is then ready to go one direction at a time
so it's so it's it's four four greens no no it runs like normal at that point it's just in this
case there's just no walk right and in this case you got a couple of one-way streets but so it the
traffic signal will operate like normal so north and south will go then east and west okay that's
what i thought you meant so it's two so it's three phases total right we're not changing the phase
north south phase east west phase pedestrian phase north south phase that's the cycle so the
pedestrians will see the exact same indication they see today and others will see the exact same
indication they will they do today but they won't have the conflict with each will not have the
conflict with the other we're trying to remove that conflict and give each movement pedestrian
or vehicular its own discrete tracks because there is i mean if you think about where you get
inside markings is that's the well as fargo is just to get some bearings on here on the south side
if you've got green light for for hickory there's no reason they shouldn't be the pedestrian crossing
could be open because no if you've got no turn on red there's nobody that can go back but
right if hickory's got the green light and locus has got the red that crosswalk could be open as
well you could we can do it over we'd be an overlap um part of what we wanted to do at the
pilot phase though is not confuse people by too many things going on at one time it's a very
just from personal experience i drove one of these over the summer and we were in victoria
canada had a lovely city a lot of people walk in everywhere fairly narrow roads a lot of parking
on all sides so when we're driving through the downtown area people are walking left and right
coming from behind parked vehicles parked cars are trying to park coming to come out parking
trying to figure out who's trying to turn right and left and then when you get to an intersection
all of this stuff happens at one time except at one intersection where they had an exclusive
pedestrian phase the the unique thing about that exclusive pedestrian phase is just from a drive
ability standpoint the first time i hit it i got to that intersection i was like what is going on
because all the cars stopped all the people went and then none of the people went and you got to
go the thing i discovered is is i really liked that intersection better than any so anytime we
were driving through the downtown area we made sure our route went that way because i didn't have
to worry about when i was turning left or right i wouldn't have to worry about people coming and
going and it was the only intersection that i was able to actually have that kind of confidence
driving i also stopped doing just intuitively i stopped doing that kind of edge up to the line
because i want to either beat the pedestrian or see the pedestrian or see another car i knew i was
going to have my turn so i didn't really edge up so i got i calmed down i was able to see a lot more
around me and i knew i was going to get my turn without conflict so what we see on the square
is you see people trying to walk and you got people trying to make a left they're looking
for parking there's a lot of i'm trying to figure out is the person going to walk i gotta try to get
that spot over there somebody's backing out of before this other guy gets it you got all those
things happening in this square which is where we started as we really got down to the nuts and
bolts of what is a exclusive pedestrian phase or an all walk how do we remove some of just that
anxiousness that we all feel when we're trying to drive through that area and provide some support
to a potentially chaotic area this is absolutely what that does intuitively it brings a lot of
order to an area where there's a lot of decisions that as a driver and as a pedestrian you don't
realize you're doing all the time you just don't really tell that you get that sense of order and
it will happen almost intuitively to everybody you get there you know you have your turn so you're
not doing this edging up i got i'm going to have plenty of time the pedestrian knows you're not
getting on my way i don't have to try to figure out are you jumping out in front of me are we
going to do the standoff here i'm going to let you in because you weigh more than i do
they can walk progressively across with confidence where they're going it also starts intuitively it
starts to prevent some of that i'm just going to jump out and walk across because i'm impatient
because everybody knows i have a chance to go you also get if you drive the square especially
around the lunchtime hour you're trying to find a place to park you see the left lane will get
clogged because people are walking across and we want them to walk across but now you got people
who are getting anxious because i want to try to turn or right turn so you see that in some too
depending on what side the pedestrians are really focused on walking across with this scenario i
should actually be able to clear traffic better when it's their turn without all the anxiousness
that comes up with that and i understand that but with it being a one way coming in from this one
one way coming in from this way and if your timing is such that it's for a pedestrian to cross once
then if they're wanting to go from this corner to this corner they're going to wait through
two cycles whereas if you said okay when i'm going northbound when locus has got the green
people on locus can't take left so we can leave that be a a walk zone and people will
will learn that that's the corner i want to get on that side because i can go with
traffic at the same time when it's an all walk i see what you're saying my concern is just going
to be that are we adding something different at one intersection or two intersections potentially
than we went anywhere else and ultimately what we're hoping to find out is absolutely this
phase works people like it we go to the next step and i have the diagonal
and i don't even have to worry about that anymore because you can just go straight across
but we're trying to step into this in a way where we can make this change quickly i mean if
council were to say yes we could do it tomorrow if we wanted to then we won't because we've got
signs and education and all that mess but we will do it fairly quickly depending on council's
direction the issue that really what we're trying to get through here is is this something that's
accepted is it something that through the pilot program that people will embrace and then we can
put the dollars to all the improvements but have to go on all those corners to make the diagonals
and then you get that very direct route on all corners yeah you know i understand that i think
it's a good program i'm just looking at you're going to have frustrated pedestrians that are
going to make it across one street and then have to wait for a full cycle of both locus and hickory
to go through before they get the light to cross again it could and we'll be actively monitoring
these intersections you know be a camera as well as physical having people out there to watch what's
going on but we can make adjustments as it goes along okay council members yeah i i have several
different comments that was one of them and one of the concerns that people commented and was that
generally with these types of programs the pedestrians get frustrated because they have
to wait or they don't have enough time to cross and right now they could go from one side to the
other side with the with the traffic timing but if for some reason they're not fast enough they can
only make it across one street and they get frustrated because they have to wait for four
lanes of traffic so then you have people just taking off and you know going rogue and trying
to cross whenever they can as a as a situation so that was just one of them and i have other
ones i can wait till the but this is a but if all traffic stops a person could i mean
if in theory they could walk diagonally that's the next phase well it well it is it is but
they can go where they want the issue is is that from an 88 compliancy perspective you
gotta strip they've got to stripe it they've got to throw out of the ramp so that's why it's phase
two is if it works then but i could i could start from that that that say the bottom right hand
let's see the bottom left hand corner and just just walk back you know all traffic stops if you're
nervous enough to go rogue you would do that sir if you're nervy enough to go no i wouldn't i'm not
going to agree with you all traffic stop yes i understand but i mean he's making i'm supporting
your point yes go ahead you can fight with me if you want so what is the timing so what is the
timing now and what will the proposed timing be because you said it would increase or no okay
you're talking about each phase so that's another actually it's kind of an advantage of going to
discrete phases because you can actually it's kind of intuitive perhaps but because i don't have to
if i'm in a car and i don't have to wait for the pedestrian to clear the turn that i want to make
left or right i can actually shorten that green time because i'm flowing free i don't have any
disruptions and no conflicts i can actually shorten the green time and get the same amount
of traffic through what that allows us to do is to move that green around if you think of the signal
cycle as a circle if we have shorter pieces smaller pieces of the pie i get more pieces
during the same amount of time so i'll be able to serve we've looked at it it's very very much
like it is today we're going to give shorter times because right now those pet times are extremely
long and some of those signal phases are extremely long because the pet phases are extremely long
if we can if we can serve the time and we may just use the diagonal time how how long does it
take a person to go from one corner to the other if they choose to do that we need to provide safe
crossing time well that's going to give more than enough time if you want to cross a single leg
but then that allows us to reduce the vehicular green time because now they don't have to worry
about they're not as todd said you'll see the right turn that it'll start and then they have
to stop and wait for the pedestrians to clear don't have to do that anymore so when they get
the green they're it's free flow they're free to go right left straight and we can actually serve
the same number of cars with a shorter cycle or the shorter phase so the same we may have shorter
phases we have more of them so even though they have to wait as a pedestrian like to cross this
street and then wait across that street and wait the time it takes the total time it takes to cross
is not that different than it is today
if you want to hear the rest of the presentation then we'll take their issues
so we've already talked about a lot of it yeah that's right look there's numbers on there so
so the uh the concept really is we've been around for a long time in the 40s it was in some of the
urban denser urban areas it was standard practice and then after world war ii when the states became
pretty auto-centric and everybody had their car they wanted one person one car it kind of fell out
of favor because prioritization was given to the vehicular road so pedestrians kind of fell away
people stopped walking they started driving everywhere but now with the resurgence of the
complete streets you see a lot of these implementation again starting in the larger urban areas but it's
really it's a great practice for anywhere you have that conflict enough pedestrians and enough
turning and traffic volume vehicular volumes is a good idea
so we've talked about a lot of the advantages it increases the convenience for pedestrians they no
longer have to worry about crossing and conflicting with the auto it definitely enhances the pedestrian
safety i think once people get over that hump of if there's a little frustration as todd said they
know they're going to get their turn and they're not going to have a car trying to turn in front of
them it really enhances the safety level and the other thing that it does is it really promotes the
pedestrian mode we're we're all about that complete streets concept we're going to get people out of
their car you know park a block away and again we're starting with the pilot program we may expand
this but we want to we want to make it comfortable for people to walk around downtown and this is a
this is an easy way where we can make it safe dependable and comfortable for people to walk
instead of driving from or trying to park as close to their destinations can they know they
can walk safely then the more likely to walk so again it increases the visibility all the
heads are you get this platoon of heads crossing the cars can see them they know it's not their turn
eliminate the conflict conflict points between the vehicles and the heads and we can actually as we
said reduce the overall head crossing time because they no longer have to wait for cars
once they start they can complete their maneuver without a conflict the other thing it does is
it can actually tighten up some intersections downtown may not we may not see this but on
other locations if we expand this program because you no longer have cars and heads moving at the
same time we can type we can bring those crosswalks in a little bit and shorten the distance for
potentially for pedestrians and for cars because if we move the stop bars in this goes again how
we can reduce that green time for a car they've got less time they that it takes them from the
stop bar to clear the intersection because we brought it in tight so pedestrians don't have to
worry about a car either turning or even if it's in the same direction right now we keep a safe
distance 46 feet between the travel lane crosswalk we don't have to do that anymore because we don't
have that conflict there's no cars moving at the same time as a passenger and we talked about the
shorter vehicular faces now in some instances of larger intersections because the the crosswalk
times are extremely long you can add some delay and it's a trade-off as to whether or not that
safety increase is worth the delay increase so if you've got larger intersections again not
necessarily these first four but if we move this pilot program to other locations in the city
you can increase the overall delay for both vehicles and pedestrians it doesn't eliminate
the turn on red right turn on red left turn on red on one-way streets we really don't want those
cars moving at the same time as a pad so we have to restrict that and you can introduce some driver
frustration but as i think as todd said once you once the drivers learn hey i'm going to get my
turn and when i when i get my turn i don't have to worry about pedestrians and if we can keep those
phases short to where we serve the we serve the demand that's there we don't not wait for the
platoon that's a block and a half away and we move it around more often than we can
we can mitigate a lot of that frustration
todder gave his example this was his
again a lot of the larger urban areas are defaulting to this
there are some states up north primarily where anytime they do an intersection you have to prove
that you would not have an exclusive pedestrian base because it is by default built down
i know some of our constituents who prefer that our traffic engineers only travel within the state
of texas but i think it's going to be for xmas no idea marcelon spain is this is the whole the whole
city's this and it is controlled beautiful chaos and if nobody ever can put through each other
i like that until he said cats well i mean there's just a lot a lot of people moving
and it worked perfect i was you know i'm not a complete streets guy but that was for us
and it's not limited although our initial deployment is really focusing on some one-way
streets it's really not limited to one-way streets at all i mean any intersection with the right
pedestrian vehicle component is a candidate for this treatment
we've talked about several other locations in town where it might make sense
well do i have to ask what else is on your radar since you introduced that topic
uh you know what i'll hold it because i asked everyone else all their questions go ahead you
got 11 12 13 and 14 right so probably one that says questions this one we've already talked about
these are the four locations timeline we have presented to the main street association traffic
safety commission uh dedc mobility today council we've got uh we're actually added one committee on
persons with disabilities will be next thursday and so uh we're ready to implement the the week
before thanksgiving we've got uh we've got the the program running on some some controllers in on
the bench we're having a little implementation problem when we go to the field but we've got our
technical people coming in this week to iron that out we'll be ready to move next week
so a little bit about the program implementation if we start the week in november we're going to
work until spring five or six months we're going to let it run we'll be assessing we'll be taking
feedback the public outreach loop has got a great website they're ready to roll out it's just got a
feedback survey on it a lot of helpful tips we're going to have some a phrase signs out on the
corners too i think it's one on each corner of each intersection that'll give some tips about
hey you've got to push the button don't cross you know when the cars are crossing just some
helpful hints they've got some faqs on the website so we'll be bringing this back with an assessment
of kind of a summary of the feedback that we received if we have any hopefully not but if
we have any crash data we'll try to share that with you as well and then again bring it back to
you for a determination whether or not we want to terminate the pilot program or continue it as a
permanent operation and then after if we decide to continue it then we can talk about expansion
okay questions yes so why wouldn't we just eliminate the right or left turns on red
if that's a an issue so because that that's been an issue for right now for when there's there's an
automatic crosswalk implemented base so you don't have to push the button and so people have gotten
used to that a little bit so that's one of my issues we're going to have to make them start
pushing the button again second so what about the flashing yellows it's that fade is that going to
go away the flashing yellow arrows and does that mean that they can still turn are you talking about
that hickory yellow just yeah yeah because that's a big issue and if that stays and we're still
working through that issue and that one way it's a two-way conundrum is really it's an issue that
just has to be resolved the best option is to resolve that issue is to clearly define that
entire stretch of road is one way or two way that gets rid of that because now we can control that
effectively with the signal that people know what they're doing with this pedestrian phase what it
does do is if you're trying to figure out who's going you've at least eliminated the well i got
a pedestrian crossing too so now i'm trying to figure out who's going when and i'm trying to
juggle what the pedestrians are doing all at the same time we're still working on what's the best
solution for that conflict where they come together so that will still be going on but there will not
be a pedestrian sign because now there is at the same time as the yellow crossing so that will be
removed right at least okay so let me answer your first part about the right turn on red the right
turn on there's there's two conflicts um one is when if i pull up to the stop bar and i get a green
and i want to turn right during that green phase i conflict with the pedestrian that's crossing with me
if i pull up and i want to turn right on the red i conflict with the person that's crossing
against me so eliminating the right turn on red only eliminates part of the conflict what we're
trying to do is eliminate all vehicular pedestrian conflicts and with the with the all-walk crosswalks
pedestrians all move at one time and the vehicles move when it's their turn and they don't have that
conflict with the pedestrian so the right turn on red helps but it only helps part way
all right so i talked about the push button i talked about that you said the disability
committee is going to review this so that was another question my right turn only so um
so some of the feedback about this
phase or what we're doing here is that pedestrians get frustrated with the time that they have to wait
but i think you may have solved that by saying that all the phases are going to be shorter
and we have the ability to to reduce the green time again we've we're running it on the bench
right now we haven't done a field implementation but we're going to be monitoring this so that if
we see that we're clearing the cues then we can shorten that green time we're going to tailor this
to maximize our efficiency of moving that green time around the intersection and are we afraid or
have you thought about if cars back up the traffic backs up into the next intersection
so yeah or you know there's somebody waiting for a parking place and holding holding something up and
some of that is a problem today and regardless some of that will be a problem in the future i
i don't think it's going to be as a bigger problem as maybe people think it will be because oh my
goodness now we're all stopping the reality is if everybody stopped
but i've got pedestrians doing their thing at one time so they get a priority whereas right now they
kind of are treated as secondary to the cars we're getting the pedestrians priority thing you
absolutely have your own face now when the car is cleared they're clearing faster and even if they
have to wait for somebody backing out they're doing that today with the current single configuration
that really won't change so a situation where the excuse me the vehicles are you know it just comes
from a bridge you know they're stacked up someone's blocking a car is blocking the intersection and
just red lights all over right and so pedestrians are going to potentially walking in between vehicles
that well so you get two components there that that happens today part of that is also an
enforcement issue because you're not supposed to be in the intersection in order to stop and stop
ahead of you you're supposed to lean on the other side of the intersection and then once that clears
then you can look into the intersection that's what's supposed to happen and always happen that
way but that even happens today there's no good answer for that one so are we going to have proper
signage like no right turns yes it's a complete package just the the programming part and controllers
but we've also got no turn on red signs that are part of this implementation as well and then my
last question is bicycle boxes somebody a couple people mentioned that i think mark just left so i
don't know um okay if you can just address that or you can do you know what that means i i do we have
not planned on implementing those with part of this there is a kind of a fine point on the bicycles
if they're going to drive through the intersection as a cyclist they are a vehicle and they have to
wait for the green light for their if they're in the lane of traffic they have to wait for the green
light if they want to if they want to cross with the crosswalk during the all-walk crosswalk phase
they have to dismount and walk the bike across so but we're not planning on with this pilot
implementing any additional cyclist provisions like the bike box or a separate bike phase or bike
detection so we can address that in the future but with this right now we're just talking about
separating the vehicle and the pedestrian faces yeah i think that really the bike box is absolutely
the point of conversation has been moved forward with the mobility plan and the bicycle component
of the of the plan it's absolutely a part of that discussion okay all right thank you
um now i like the idea i think it will work well i think we're way overdue for no turn on red that
should happen on the square a long time ago because you cannot see the oncoming traffic unless you're
already in the crosswalk so why that hasn't happened years ago i don't know uh looking forward to see
how it's accepted by everybody out there would you mind going back to the um the uh next steps slide
well yeah yeah no no not that one the dates oh okay okay so all right so it already went to
traffic safety correct and they they liked it right great green light so to speak yes um what
is the point of going to the uh council before you go to the committee on persons with disability
when we want to get that input and have that be part of the input to council it was just a scheduling
when we decided to move forward with this they'd already had their last meeting so we put it on the
next available agenda they meet that frequently maybe the next next thursday i mean i would
anticipate that you know council may say sounds good except we want to hear what they say so
i don't know i mean what what then happens it goes to them and they can you know council's already
proved this how does that work what if they have a big issue with it or some group of some great
insights what would we do in it my comment on that is that today council doesn't say yes we just give
correction before and then they would go to the mobility committee and implement what they say
before it comes back to us for a vote also comes back to council for a vote is that so i didn't see
that i see the presentation of council today and then implementation or you could approve
contingent upon yeah all right i anticipate that uh and then um first of all i should condition
what i say by saying i like it and it makes sense to me just as an individual uh but i want to ask
your indulgence um you know i got a an email i mentioned you did too from one of our you know kind of
very engaged citizens particularly focuses on pedestrian bike mobility she cites a study
that uh that says this sort of thing works works well uh only where people tend to
follow the rules and then it then it works better in situations where it's long crossings and high
traffic uh high auto traffic but not so well in this situation which is you know low relatively
low distance uh you know and not like not like a highway situation like i said intuitively this
makes all kinds of sense to me to have all traffic stopped when people are crossing i wonder if you're
aware of this research and if uh okay let's see maybe i can read it to you if i can beg your indulgence
sure um what here this is from safety ass effects of exclusive and concurrent signal phasing
pedestrian crossings and it's a 2015 study they you know if you want i'll dig into it and find out the
source but these are quotes from it intersections with concurrent phasing have fewer total pedestrian
crashes than those with exclusive phasing but more crashes at higher severity
however since traffic has stopped on all directions exclusive pedestrian phasing
results in longer delays for motor vehicles and pedestrians pedestrians often do not wait for the
pedestrian phase potentially resulting in unexpected interactions between pedestrians
and motor vehicles the requested pedestrian phase may then go unused frustrating drivers who must
then wait for the phase to run its course we recommend i don't know exactly the ways recommend
that exclusive phasing be considered only in these conditions high traffic speeds long crossing
distances and low pedestrian volumes in contrast locations with low traffic speeds short crossing
distances and high pedestrian volume should not be considered for exclusive pedestrian phasing
unless there's also significant use of the intersection by pedestrians with physical or
visual challenges let's see if i can find the source here okay i can't wait uh so are you are
you aware of the study of this there's a reason why and this is different than that so the the
effectiveness or the success is very much intersection specific and i'm going to say when
you talk about a long crossing versus a short crossing a residential intersection is a short
crossing okay well we've actually this is when you're when you're talking about crossing locus
you've got two travel lanes and two parking lanes you've got four lanes of traffic that's not
necessarily a short crossing and the research that i'm much more impressed or that i agree with it's
not the speed of the vehicles it's how much turning traffic you have because that's the conflict if
you're going straight and i'm going straight as pedestrian there's no conflict it's when you want
to turn right and left and around the square they have a lot of turning they also also the the point
about the disadvantaged or challenged pedestrian i'm going to take that to the next step and it's
the distracted pedestrian because when you're the pedestrians are types that we have around the square
you're looking for where you're going you're with a group of friends you're not necessarily just
walking like on somebody on university coming from class and students they're just we're walking but
around the square you've got all this different activity going on and now you've got cars turning
and you've got pedestrians trying to walk this way much more concerned about the distracted
pedestrian and the number of turning vehicles and again these are not necessarily even though
you're you only got one lane of traffic in each direction that you've got that parking adjacent to
and so you know you still got a pretty good crossing distance also want to ask you mentioned
that there are other places around the city where you think this might be applicable i wonder what
intersections you have in mind well so i don't necessarily have intersections in mind but what i
have is those areas where we have again the distracted pedestrian i'm going to lump it into
university students yeah on the phone across the street anywhere around i'm not distracted
they have complete and total focus laser focus it's not on their surroundings correct
so anytime we have high pedestrian volumes and potentially distracted or not necessarily paying
attention i would argue that anywhere around unt or twu not anywhere but there are several
locations that might fit this this such as exactly such as friday right well yeah so anywhere
uh i don't think that would even have a it will but i don't think it has a head phase but but those
are the locations that we're looking to expand this where we've got those pedestrian volumes we've got
the the vehicular volumes it doesn't necessarily have to be a high vehicular volume but if you've
got high turning points or you've got as tob pointed out you've got people driving looking
for a parking space they're not necessarily focused on what's happening with the pedestrians
or even other vehicles so i'm asking like you know my true inner inclination is to be supportive
i'm asking this as kind of constituent service see what you say uh another uh very engaged citizen
says if you're you know would it make sense to other lower risk intersections where you would
want to where you might consider testing this first asking the question you know with what do
you think about that suggestion my question would come down to this what do you call it risk is the
risk of pedestrian crashes so it's going to be some well some volumetric metric here's where i
struggle with that one if i'm looking at this option as opposed to i'm going to insert a
roundabout or something that is new to a good number of drivers you're putting in something that
intuitively everybody's going to understand from the start it's a crosswalk it's a signal you get
the driver gets a red light they see a sign that says no right on red no left on red they intuitively
know these things as soon as they approach it so this the likelihood of increased risk actually
goes down because this is a much more intuitive education process than one where we're going to
insert something some new dynamic like the flashing yellows on the dueling heads or oak and
hickory and locust that i'm way more worried about doing something different there than i am
you got a longer time to walk and the cars have their green light and it's very orderly the issue
that you generally run into is one that we deal with anyway and that somebody says well i'm late
i'm just going to go you're never going to prevent that i don't care what control we put at that
at that intersection you're never going to prevent that people are still going to cross if they see
it's clear they're going to cross when they want to cross we're just saying let's give you a priority
in this chaos and what brings them forward to it and say you go when you go i'll go when i go
the pedestrian absolutely still can make the choice if nobody's coming down locust i'm just
going to go i can do that we're not slowing that down i think this is a much if we're talking about
risk assessment i don't see the risk here with this option we also want to implement the pilot
program just in this way for exactly that reason no commitment on this beyond let's try it let's
watch it we've got traffic cameras at these intersections so we can see it live when the
minute something happens we'll be able to make adjustments to signal timing this is a very
different scenario i would be more hesitant to do this on a university campus than i would on the
square where people are are more acute and aware of what's going on around them i'm more worried
about doing something in another place where it's a new phenomena and i still got kids are just
they're not going to care i assume the traffic is going to stop for me regardless where it happens
how long would you intend the test base to be it was five to six months five to six months
and uh and what what would be the key metrics that define success so there's a variety of avenues
there that we're looking to explore it's actually being out in the field asking questions of people
on the corners as they're using it uh there'll be an online survey component in this people are
invited to come they can scan the code they can give their feedback that way and we're trying to
capture that data of people who park remotely they work up there or they live up there and they're
just walking as well as the people who come up there they park it and walk it so user reaction
is right all right uh you didn't ask for direction in that posting but uh i'm willing to give you
you know certain now you give you get direction uh do you want to go ahead it says you've given
your direction yeah i mean it's going to city council for presentation in a couple of hours
and then you support that you support it going to council okay how about you yeah okay uh yeah uh me
too i would just suggest that uh probably the citizen input that came to me has come to other
council members as well and so the extent that you want to you know just be prepared to address
those points so much of those studies are very they're focused on an intersection or two or three
intersections and it doesn't necessarily look at the holistic picture so it becomes very
intersection specific and what are the intricacies of that area versus somewhere else great thank you
and i look forward to hearing the presentation to see if it's completely different in a couple of
hours i've got time thank you okay moving on to img staff reports
i don't want to pull up the matrix we've changed the name of matrix because we had some naming
issues we just say i don't have any consideration that would you change it from in two he just did
like us calling him neo that was part of it so as you can see i think the first few items they're
more of ongoing i think dct regularly hearing that and these two or three items they're part of the
big picture mobility plan that's mobility presentations are coming to work session items
and coming months from below and the right turn lane versus bike lane that is at university
i believe that was the issue it is a typical lane but it's a
it's an intersection where
you typically have a right turn lane and a bike or a through lane a shared through right
lane and a bike lane next to each other it's it's on most of our bike routes so one of the
things we can look at is more signage or some striping that you know alludes to traffic that
hey when you're turning be aware that there's a bike lane and since you're merging into biking
this is fairly typical and i can have brian talk about the merging or mark talk about it but i think
the question was the conflict between the right turners and the bike yeah people try and use that
as a three lane intersection so they stay in the main lane if they're going straight and they get
in the bike lane to make a right hand turn typically maybe we need the green paint that we use
on carroll and that might be a solution that typically the law requires them to merge into
the into the bike lane before they can make it right so this is a merging area that's why you
can see this area it's not a solid line and i can have brian talk in detail about this striping but
typically what is required per law is they merge into this bike area and this becomes a merge
mixed use or used by both a bike bicyclists as well as vehicles this area is used for the right
turning vehicles so if you're turning right you're required to merge and then make a right so that
you're not cutting off or getting in conflict with the bicyclists that coming in the bicyclist sees
you in that particular area because they you now notice that you're turning right so this is this
is required for the bicycle for the vehicle to merge into that area it's not necessarily required
for them to stay there and act and and use that as a third lane which is what i think is what is
happening so yes i think a little bit of paint and some striping that says shared use only for
right turners or something like that that's something that we can look into once we implemented we'll
come back and give you a quick update but that's that item getting into there are four items that
we'll be bringing in next meeting and those will be item six which is the policy if we have any
and what is our policy according to police department and bicycle enforcement item seven
i think we are currently going back and forth on a resolution and legally getting ready to agree
with the terms of the turn back agreement and then the other two items is items are number nine and
number 12 update on small transportation projects and number 12 is sidewalk connectivity so we'll
bring those back next time we get together i do have an update on item 10 which is the speed
studies we conducted speed studies earlier this year on kings row nottingham and winzer and except
for kings row i want to say kings row was slightly above the 85th percentile was 32 or 33
it's slightly above the speed limit on kings row what rest of the rest of the speed studies or
surveys showed that they were under 30 miles an hour so the 85th percentile on nottingham as well
as winzer was under 30 miles an hour so that was the result based on the speed study we can conduct
more studies but we're typically we try and conduct these i think there was a slight change before
police department was doing some of our studies but now traffic engineering has taken that over
so they will be depending on the request depending on the need they'll be connecting traffic speed
studies just to update our inventory and make sure that our speeds are posted at the right speed
any questions you can add yeah open to additional so you guys go first
that's what we're great i've been getting comments this is going to be a little unfocused but i want
you to respond to it however you will i think i've comments that we do a new road construction and
they get wobbly before you know and very soon they become wobbly here's a perception well use oak as
an example that's recently redone and you know it seems to be kind of an undulating ride and the
perception is that there are not just there but perhaps elsewhere that we take a uniform approach
to the engineering when there may be underlying differences in the the soil level you know the
composition of the soil so that you know things quickly settle unevenly and again it was wobbly
roads perception so i'd be interested in hearing the future session if you think there's any truth
to that if there's any changes if so if you think there are any changes or are there changes underway
at this time in in our engineering approach to that to the soil level wasn't positive so that
asked me well i'm not wrong if you choose to but i think i can at least get there a little bit of
the way and if we need to go further we can come back to another time absolutely the biggest issue
with some of these roads is if it's a reconstruct that's a big term to throw out there as a program
not all roads are completely reconstructed so it ends up happening in some cases is and oak is one
that predates me so i don't know exactly to what extent they went to if we were doing it today
we would do what we call geotechnical core samples and a lot of times you'll see even the state do
this so you'll see the state come in and reconstruct a road from the base up we discovered this just
recently talking to the state they only do test force to the bottom of the pavement when they're
going to reconstruct so they're not looking into what's going on below ground is that a good idea
well no so and that has been a common practice across the state when they're just reconstructing
an existing road what we do right now because especially with the source we have here so all
of our projects go at least 15 16 feet down sometimes even further the roadway depth is
actually if it's asphalt it's going to be somewhere around 24 inches total to get to the base
concrete is going to be a little narrow about 18 inches so they're only going about that far
that we're going 15 16 sometimes if we see groundwater we may even go further we don't
reach rock and any in a shorter time frame we think it's there we may be going deeper just
figuring out where all the material is and understand do i have high sulfates in the soil
yeah sulfates that was the one yes yes so i because that will make the base turn into a
muddy mess quickly so today we absolutely go at core everything much much deeper it's infinitely
cheaper to do a five or six hundred dollar test hole up front and not have to come back and
completely reconstruct the road later actually i'll take another example it kind of comes under this
heading montecito i understand that well okay citizen perception there's an underground spring
that like if people have been around for a long time they would have known that
the new road is already cracking i haven't gone look at it myself but does that sound familiar to
you and is that another example of not having there was another one that was that kind of predates the
current staff so i don't know what measures they took when they started the reconstruction pathway
yeah uh i know it through a bunch of little months here a bunch of my neighbors for a curve when
when we came out and topped it again here this last summer like we're just out here three years
ago what are you gonna get all right that's that ongoing maintenance of asphalt roadways some of
that happens the pavement dries out we do have a lot of swimming pools in that neighborhood as well
that we're not exactly sure how they drain so i do know there are some other factors at play in that
area i don't doubt that there's some springs and some other things in the area but what we would do
today reconstructing that roadway is what i just described would it be doing test holes try to
identify where groundwater is so we can come at that and have better ways of feeling about that
you can add emerson to that list of um streaks that have no no no that have underground springs
because that's really really up and down i don't know if that has been proven or not but that's
what's it well and that's exactly why we do those very deep test holes to start identifying all the
materials that make up the soil column as well as any groundwater that may be pervasive in the area
so so adding to the matrix of a number of streets that you want us to get ports on or i mean i just
don't want us to get too far out of posting well do you think there's more to say on that or if we
just addressed the question you know like that whether it's anything you want to take a closer
look at come back or i feel like we've addressed it but we'd go out saying our practice is not to do
it is totally changed from what it would have been before we got here and that we go out to test
deeper and more frequently than what was done in the past so i think we've addressed that
time will tell on that but the practices you're seeing across the stage people are recognizing
that if i do significant amount of geotech work up front which we do then i resolve a lot of those
issues actually i'll give you just take one more uh swing at this another version of the comment
that i hear is our local roads don't seem to when they're really done don't seem to last as long as
the state ones when we could go to their specs that might be something we need to talk about
on like that that sounds like a bigger conversation so maybe we should just have a
we could just add to the matrix we'll just okay the city standard versus state
state design standards so city city standards versus things that i would i imagine it would be
different but be an interesting discussion sure right appreciate that uh anything else for the
matrix uh for the matrix but we've got street and one of those street closer report on that
yeah i was just going to say you could take 11 off because we talked about that today
unless just if you guys could give us a brief update after the meeting with the
and that's pretty much we close it all out okay so let's move on to g2
any questions this this is just yeah this is just a minor one
unless it got changed yesterday afternoon the signs for the detour for forest bridge
still show that northbound is closed through november 10th so we just need to update the
date on those signs that people yeah we got that we heard that from a couple of folks we'll make
sure that we're doing a better job of policing those when changes happen in the field make sure
that they get adjusted and on that safe note um the closure of winter and ankle as well because
i know that there's so that's gonna ask a little bit so any update there so
yeah we have it on the pia we have it on the website but the i'll send that information out
we have a flyer that defines when from where to where and when to when right no i saw that
it's just that there it was supposed to be closed and it was not closed yet correct the issue was
we're trying to uh and i think we talked to councilor melter about that due to whether they
were not able to pay the detour route and that's why i kept on postponing with rains last week
and then postponed so we were not we were holding the contractor up because we wanted to close it
after the detour was paid in so there were payment missing between the head lead all the way to the
south connection right now to the good samaritan so all of that pavement was supposed to be placed
before the they closed with that's why there were some delays they couldn't pay it because it was
too wet to uh the conditions were pretty harsh last week and it dried out later on and then they
will be able to pay that now it's pretty closed maybe the impression impression that the windsor
part of that equation was sort of not very movable because it's a drainage issue so what happens now
that we've moved it so we've the the date has been shifted it's the it's just that the detour still
continues going south through the neighborhood well i understand the detour part i'm just saying
i thought there was like uh kind of urgent time pressure on doing the winter closing we were
trying to get all that in before the weather took effect and now we're going to be battling the
weather while we're doing it we were doing our best to try to take advantage of the last kind of
good weather we had but it's the last piece of that drainage we got to get in to be able to really
fully pave everything so it's it's got to get that in just to make all this work okay so we're trying
it's still urgent to us pretty it is still urgent and but we're still battling the weather yeah
okay anything else on street closure report
okay um concluding items anybody anything in that case uh i'm on the list yeah but i'll uh
close the meeting then at 11 21 according to the computer thanks everyone