May 29, 2024 Mobility Committee on 2024-05-29 10:00 AM

good morning everyone Wednesday May 29th 10 a.m. we're in our council work session room good morning for our mobility committee meeting after determining that a quorum is present we will begin this meeting at approximately 10 a.m. so first thing on the agenda is citizens comments for the agenda item do we have any citizens comments no comments so we'll go to number two items for individual consideration a MC 2 4 - 0 1 3 consider approval of the minutes of April 24th 2024 can we get a motion for approval I move approval all right all in favor say all right so the minutes of the April 24 2024 meeting has been approved on to be MC 2 4 - 0 1 4 receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the city of Denton's transportation mobility project status report good morning everybody so this is our second time through for some of y'all so we'll go fairly quickly on the some of these items and you'll just as you know stop me when you I got a question so we're still working on the funding for all of these projects here some of its in place and some of it is committed for future and some of them are projects that we need to still work on getting funding for so we'll start with 35 North so text that has made the determination to cut the yellow project into two segments because they're it's approaching with a total dollar amount where if they don't break it into two contracts they'll let them at the same time but if they don't let they if they don't break them into two projects it's right now it's at 471 and they think by next year it'll be around 500 million and anything that's 500 million above has to go through what we call value engineering and typically what happens on value engineering is it gets more expensive so they're gonna break it into into two still let it on the same time frame but two different two different projects that's really the only news on that project have a question can you will you please let us know the distance from what point to what point for the yellow section absolutely soon as they break it they'll get a new CSJ for it and we'll start tracking that project and that's from for 77 77 North to 455 where we're building the interchange at 455 now with a 455 project from the high school out to western part of the county and then what about the other purple stuff so those are all the purple the purple I don't know which one's purple okay the purple is the one that's being done with 455 the 08 one is a section north to I forget the limits but that's the project that's probably gonna go first of the three the purple ones already going it'll go blue green yellow okay and that's just because yellow has all of this all these utilities to relocate and we're a little bit further behind on these then than these and the good news is is we're pretty much with the city didn't stuff on track for y'all's utility so the critical path or other other projects other utilities the merge as you know let April 4th it came in at 500 let's see 500 and 88 million just 18% over the district put in half the Delta and then the Commission put in the other half so they ordered the project there were only two bidders that's how much works going on in the region and the bid said that if you you can't bid more than 56 months for this project and both bidders bid 56 months so that's four and a half years and there's you can see out there they're starting to put their SW 3p walls up fences up for stormwater prevention and it'll just steadily get worse until it gets better mayhill job we've got a June 2025 let that's on track the reason we're not moving it into 2024 is because our cat cat two dollars are set for the 25 timeframe calendar year so we can't move it up but what basically happened is about the time y'all get done with mayhill in Colorado and everybody settles for a couple of months we're going to come in and start tearing stuff up and what we're going to do is I'm going to propose that we use regional toll revenue funds or RTR funds to connect the two projects so right now this project ends right about the quick trip driveway and then y'all's project stops pretty much just past Colorado and there's that leaveout section that's pretty desperate so we think it's a pretty good candidate project for toll revenue funds and we're gonna propose that if we get it y'all will have the privilege of building it and y'all your staffs used RTR funds before name they know all the processes involved with that because they're not federal dollars and they're not state dollars they're they're just somewhere in the nebulous yes sir I was just gonna ask where that comes from okay so back in 2003 2004 2005 2006 the region were given tools and not money to do the state was to do projects and so we were given what they call CDA's comprehensive development agreements and the ability to do toll roads toll manage lanes etc North Texas took 7 billion dollars they were given and put 21 billion dollars projects on the ground by using the CDA process which used Centra to build both 635 East and the North Town Express and then they led a design-build project for 35 all that money came from tolling a 121 from Denton to Collin County so it dips down into Dallas so NTTA paid the region 3.2 billion dollars for the rights to that project for 52 years that money went to the state's fund six but it was can only be spent it's in a separate care it can only be spent in the Dallas and Fort Worth area because we're the ones paying the tolls so it was split up didn't Dallas and Collin split 2.4 billion dollars based on the revenue they were going to generate off the toll management I'm off the toll road didn't kind of got 1.6 billion Dallas got 400 million and then Collin County got 900 million but the Collin County hadn't built 121 yet ours was already open to traffic so they had to use 600 of the 900 to build the road so they netted out 300 we still had 1/6 and that was in the good days when we had interest rates right and so for from 2006 to 2010 it's slow it's a hard it's hard to spend money on roads to be honest with you it takes a long time and so for a long time there Denton County's RTR funds were generating about 4 million dollars in interest payments per month so we built the DCTA train we built 35 we did all the free roads we got Mayhill Bonnie Bray was a part of that project and those dollars are allocated to counties by their percentage of how they generate the revenue off the toll road 800 million of the 3.2 was divided up to the counties by the number of toll tag users they have in their county so Collin and Dallas can have the most of the toll tag users at the time so they got most of the 800 million so those toll those dollars are called regional toll revenue RTR and they're in the in the account in Austin but they're sub allocated to the Dallas and Fort Worth district and then sub allocated in those districts to the counties I did that with one breath it's just I'm just asking you to guess if you don't know roughly how much money is in the account now for Denton so that is an excellent question so in 2014 they stopped giving us updates because they changed a new accounting system and so I've got documentation from Austin that says there's 3 billion dollars in there still but they don't account for encumbrances right so like we've got 10 million sitting on 377 in the Argyle section they don't count that they they think it's still available but it's not because it's encumbered the region thinks that Denton County has about 150 million plus or minus and the reason they don't know for sure is because when we did I-35 from 635 to 380 Dallas County didn't participate they would had nothing no skin in the game but Texas still needed to acquire right away in the Dallas County area so Denton County lent text dot X amount of dollars and it was in the millions to allocate those to those various areas for right away acquisition with the intent is as they close those out because we would get reimbursed those those dollars we lent them so that's taken a long time we got a about a year and a half ago a tranche of about 200 million back and although I can't see the accounting COG said I owed him 70 million for something and so I got netted down to 130 but we're working on trying to figure out what that number is but you get different numbers where you ask different people and last question so that money can only be used to connect already existing funding projects yeah if you get COGS permission you can use it for anything road related really yeah but you got to go through the county the way it was set up back in 2006 Denton County was the local match requirement because there's a 20% local match when you access these funds and so that initial tranche of about 700 million that went to all the cities the county was the local match on that and what what the deal was back then was the can't we didn't want to have the county that the time didn't want to have to because what they do in Dallas and Collin County is any time they want to access the RTR funds they got to get a committee of the whole within the county and they're great everybody fights right and we wanted to thwart that so we just gave half the money to the cities up front so do with it what you want back in the day that's how you got Mayhill and Bonnie Bray and McKinney and then the rest was on system projects mostly so the county was the driver on that so the county cog worked the process to allocate RTR funds and I've already talked to the county on this since their courthouse is right up the street they want this road fixed as well as much as anybody does any other questions in on this in this regard okay well I do want to say that I didn't know we were going to get in all of that thank you for that because that really get gave us a great educational opportunity to learn so much more thank you for going into those details there's a there's just a not enough education out there for our public to understand that you know how these things work absolutely and when they're saying oh then is not doing anything didn't counties always the last one you know there's a process out there so if that's going through the toll roads we're upset about having to pay toll fees and all that stuff but that's where the money comes from the more money the 121 was basically the last new toll road that's going to be built in the region if there is anything going forward it'll be it'll be told managed lanes and that is you build your competition right next to it so you get to choose like I'm 35 if you want to drive on the managed lanes you can if you don't you have a free access free flow general purpose lane to use so the toll roads are a 2020 20th century item from now on everything is going to be directed towards managing congestion yeah well thank you so much I do want to go go back to a May Hill stay here on May Hill I have a question in regards to the RTR fund and you know I don't even have to ask that anymore but the question now becomes which entity will be responsible for connecting May Hill to 35 so I've done it both ways we're doing a project in Louisville where they're doing the 121 corporate breakout job that's that you're fixing to see that pop there is a tie-in Texas Avenue which used to be on system but now it's off and we're funding that separately with RTR funds because it wasn't cleared originally and TechStop is going to build it with their big job because it's a billion dollar project so adding 13 million dollars is spilled concrete so we don't know yet about this segment okay and so the design you don't wouldn't know yeah the design will be easy because it's just a connection we're not really we may widen but you got a wide median there in the middle so we probably widen to the inside so all those things are just now getting worked out but I'll talk to y'all your staff and see what their feelings are about it you can get done quicker if y'all do it but if not we'll just we'll try to put it in with the Mayhill job yeah that's what I was kind of the question that I was alluding to as to you know who would RTR doesn't require any environmental clearance like you do for the big jobs they require a checklist where you just say no there's no no no no you send it in and they go okay we believe you okay thank you all right thank you okay 35 W frontage roads tech stock has scheduled a meeting with with ITS to talk about their intent and desire to do a breakout on this beyond these projects because they've got the about 288 million of the 430 they need and instead of waiting until they get the rest of it they want to just start building breakouts and so we are we're thinking that we're gonna do from 2449 South to 407 but leave out certain parts of it that aren't either needed for development like the Cleveland Gibbs we know it needs to be done but there's a there's another bridge structure in there that we think we can pull out so when as soon as we get that kind of roped up on what what the what the best management practices is for that 288 we'll bring it to the committee say this is what text that's proposing but it's all 407 north to 2449 so it's the segment y'all want let's go back to that because I have one question it's man and so now also if you can determine that there's some sections that could be left out because purchasing rights you know things like that from the people that own that space and you all can't predict how you know in 10 years 15 years you know how something like that will work yeah so every year so text thought and the Commission has got this program called from the Rio to the red six lanes right and they're talking about I-35 so they're gonna have I-35 that's their goal is to push that's why we've got so much money in the northern part 35 W is the last because I just drove to San Antonio 35 W is the last segment to be six lanes so we believe that every time we put a request in if they have the money they'll give us additional funding so instead of waiting and incurring enough to do it all at one time which we wouldn't do anyway because it's going to be significant we're going to go ahead and start with the money we have so every August we'll be able to come back to tell you what okay thank you okay so I one of the bridges were taken out it's in that area where that it's just a farmland where the guys got ability to get across to the interstate they were gonna build a full-on interchange there and we said maybe but not today yeah okay so you're this is the this is the project that's essentially done where it's closing out we're just basically doing the cleanup work on it but they added the six lanes from 288 to 377 raised median and the 10 foot shared use paths to the green belt I will say that that road is the smoothest yes and the good news is you'll start to see it when you go south of the lake they're doing a resurfacing a 35 e what happens on these concrete roads is once they go to resurface them they put asphalt on them and that's when you get a really smooth run yes we have a question June that's the contract time frame I can get a specific day if you need it but it'll be okay alright so the 28 West we just continue to push and bang on the design for this project we are intending to do the northbound frontage roads in its entirety as a first phase and with a great separation at 3/8 in the railroad track at least we may have to add some more we got everything down here at Underwood and John Payne John Payne John Payne worked out with y'all stir for a plan we had to go back and do a little reevaluation on that but we got it all taken care of so that's just plucking along okay we did have our breakout meeting on the connector road I would say that counseling back was a very attentive and information I'll let him characterize any feelings he has post that but we we sat down with them went over chapter and verse and so I love how y'all are staring at me yeah we go we had a we did have a breakout meeting and and John and Scott spent a lot of time explaining the merits of various elements of the proposal I tried to highlight things that I thought the public would squeak about and and I don't know where we've come back from then but I do know we're having a meeting in June 13 should be right yes that sounds right you know there is so it'll be it'll be interesting to see the feedback I can tell you just as an issue of feedback that the people don't you need me you too need to highlight more whenever you're talking to people who's paying for what and the cost of it right that changes people's perspectives a lot right who gets to make the final decision well I mean both that but like we were talking about having three separations of grade being an extra 50 million and people go they immediately stop at 50 million because that's it that's an extra amount and they don't want to see Cassie put into the budget right there's everything you can talk about everything you want to talk about and we can walk the logic on you know what we do when we get to those situations the program we've got takes into consideration your thoroughfare plan and also something that we think we can actually get funded by the state so I have a question on a project like any project okay let's use this project okay it's specifically for this project I would say okay when what what when do you come to the public and say okay public we have everything we need right it's time to go and not necessarily based on the funding showing up because everybody's not gonna be happy with anything ever at all correct how do you how does how will this decision be made to say okay we have what we need we're getting ready to build this road so when you see something that says public meeting yes that's intent to actually gain information in order to make the project better okay okay but when you see the next step being a public hearing they're only there to hear the complaints and then they're gonna go respond to the federal government on why we're not changing our plan so once the public hearing hits it's done and done so that's why I'm saying the public meetings and the feedback we're getting from the stakeholders which essentially in this case is Denton is critical to making sure that we get the best project we can for you and still meet all the state requirements so how do you all determine what's fluff and what's not fluff dr. Beck not fluff somebody else don't spend my money that could be fluff so the typical comments we get from a public meeting is is they either don't want the road they don't want to be impacted by the road or they don't want the traffic right so we respond to those in the meetings phases like though you saw those two or three other alternatives that further out we eliminated those partially because of the comments we got but the other part was that it was significantly higher cost than what a connection road should be so the two things eliminated it the cost and the fact that the public wasn't really supporting of going out that far and damaging them with many property owners we were going to damage it a lot of property owners so that's that's how the public meeting process works we hear what you got to say we all come and meet together and we try to tweak it because there's been a lot of tweaks one of the tweaks we did was we had the major crossing at Kings Row yeah and Scott and his group pointed out some of the things y'all have planned in that area that Windsor makes a better location because it's for multiple reasons and the state agreed and so we tweaked the plans to dominate predominance the Windsor and under under serve or whatever you want to do reduce them the area at the Kings Row because there's not enough room for both of them we can only have one and so that kind of feedback changed the schematic and and the the cost part of it is is the counties paying for the environmental clearance and the design and the schematic and all that so every time we have to change it the county pays more for it and the reality is it made good sense everybody said yes and so we make we're making a change and so for you know the benefit of the public this is just a clear it's a very clear notion I don't know the other word that it takes time so all of this stuff there we're seeing right now the meetings and all of that this has been a years ago project yeah so I tell people of time y'all heard it I think we can build roads tomorrow if I didn't have to include you in the process violate your property rights and not care about the environment but if we got to do those things it takes time but where we are we're at a point where after this last public meeting which I think this is going to be the last because we did make significant changes from what they saw last time so we needed to come out and say this is what we're thinking what say you are this is what you say well when we tried to respond to what I don't know if this is good news or bad news for you three yeah but the federal government doesn't look at individuals the federal government looks at jurisdictions so if you've got a jurisdiction says we support project a and I just literally had this happen I've been at a public hearing where there were 1,300 people wearing red shirts said stop 2499 and we were started at six and we didn't get done to four o'clock in the morning because we want he had to hear from everybody and as long as Highland Village and fly them out of the county so this is what we need to do the feds didn't see the 1,300 people or the 4,000 comments that said they didn't want the road they saw the jurisdiction there represents everybody saying this is what we got to do so the feds are really going to look to the city and the county to make a comment on the schematic and thank you Johnson when you're talking hearing versus meeting what I'm hearing you say is that the public has can have much more influence at the meeting perfect and less so at the hearings that correct okay exactly right they got to change the name or that last thing we're here to tell you no meeting that's what they should call it we ain't changing reality we ain't changing all right thank you okay segment seven is a part of the 288 job that we were just talking about we show it separate for y'all because again y'all are y'all got it as segment seven but it's part of the 288 job and we'll be built with the 288 job no city money alright 1515 we're looking at still ready to let of summer of next year we're working on utilities that's pretty much driving the boat on this project or the utilities and we're fairly confident because of various sundry issues with this project we're fairly confident that we're going to be able to get the 34 million we need to build it got a question John I mean I don't know how much I mean this is an industrial area I'm assuming it's very rich in in subsurface utilities along that path yeah is that is that right I mean it's complicated to do it or everything straightforward I mean everything's complicated but I mean we listen this is like the 5700 time we've done it so it's just the utility relocations take sometimes the longest time and they have the most danger to the schedule because the state and the county and the city city has more than the state and the county does swing with these franchise utilities because they got better lobbyists right and the county can't compete with them y'all issue franchise stuff so y'all can have some sway with them but you typically if the utilities dig their heels in on something we got to find a way around it because they they can't stop a project which is like on the big big job for the merge on 35 we coordinated with everybody because we're going to do what's called a utility bank where everybody's going in generally the same area and we had to essentially order the priorities based on City of Denton utilities out there because they were the biggest Kahuna out there that we had to work around so it's just every every time is different but yes we know what's out there and if we don't we find it with a backhoe well okay so that was my follow-up question and that is I know that as we get further back in time the the coordinates of the of the actual utility get worse and worse right you know because we just we didn't GPS them back in the day or or we didn't write into the plans oh yeah we moved it three foot to the left right they don't tell you contractor may take your plans and it may be off by foot but when we're in an area where we really think that we need to have to have a significant level of assurance we'll go out and do potholes potholes and we'll try to find them physically before we finalize the design because some of these projects have if they get screwed up in contract they're going to go hard expensive on the state so doing a little bit upfront skull-duggery to find out where they are is beneficial okay 1173 from crumb over to 35 we are continuing that project we met with crumb and there are some issues with some of their historical stuff that we're going to work around that they told us what was most important and so we're we've got everything in play for a February 25 let and the part of the cost on this is that there's a ton of drainage issues right as you get to crumb you kind of see that green area right here there's a lot of there's a lot of drainage in here that's making the project more expensive that you would think for a you know four mile road so we're working through that with this one probably we want to go through about your engineering because it shouldn't we got to figure out a way to get that cost down for you know 30 million a mile um that's what I had some issues with a railroad track so what we're doing is okay sorry so what we're gonna have to do is we're not we're gonna go at great at where it crosses what your old Barthold is but we're gonna close the one here at 1173 so these people here will have like a hammerhead u-turn and then these people will be able to come back and we're gonna build in a tie-in here so it's not gonna be not a little unlike Edwards over here at Mayhill we're gonna have to come up and then tie into the signal if you want to come back so we're that's gonna be part of this job so we're we're switching at grades and so far the railroad hasn't balked but they usually like to wait till right at the last minute to throw a wrench in the process so we got plenty of time for them to screw it up so no questions we'll just move right on it's the outer loop what do you want to know though no the alignments that I got to see I don't I don't know if the rest of the committee got to see them that we were down to four or five or whatever they were yeah my question is when when are we gonna get closer to releasing these to the public I mean I know you you like the not are not you but the workflow likes to not do it until the final alignment and which is distasteful to everyone everybody wants to see at least what the last couple of options are so we're getting close to showing the the four or five and it's really it's not four or five because we have to cross the green belt at 428 yeah right we have to tie in where Collin counties built the road we're building a 1250 foot long bridge at Milam so we can fit underneath there so we've got three points set so there's a couple of alternatives three or four on the west side and two or three on the east side but this is a this is an environmental impact statement so the public will be able to see soon because we're looking if we're looking at summer 26 I'm thinking sometime fall of next year there'll be two alternatives that we're going to take through the full-on matrix of what's what the feds call a thorough vetting of their environmental impacts so an EA you only take one but the feds require you to take two and we will have those two narrowed down probably by like I say fall of next year and it comes from talking to to the stakeholders right so in this case we've got Aubrey not so much Krugerville pilot point has a lot right away a lot of city property that goes way south on 377 so they're a minor stakeholder y'all are the big kahuna on this one in this area and the core so we're talking about a 500 foot footprint except for when we cross the green belt and it's 150 feet and what right now the core has told us to do is figure out a way to stay in 150 feet and so we've come up with a dual deck system that works but the other part of the core of engineers wants us to help them with their flooding issues and so we may trade that effort for a little bit more width on the green belt area if we need it but I don't think we'll need it so we're going to be taking two through fall next year we'll be able to start showing those to the public for comment right the meeting side and the public involvement process for a EIS is double what it is for an EA so all the things where you see what's doing with 288 we're gonna times to it for the outer loop once we get there this is so exciting to me I think I just heard you say fall next year for public meetings yeah so we've been having we will the county because the reason why we wanted to do this document is we want to be significantly more attentive and attuned to the needs of the local people so we're meeting one-offs with people that have the land that call us hey we got a question so we'll meet with one property owner if we have to and walk walk the dog on on if there is an alignment that's shown on their property what the logic is so we have constant constant flow meetings with property owners developers anytime y'all want to anytime you don't want additional information we'll get LGA here and we'll run you'll run it down with you but so we do the we do the one-offs but the formal public meetings I think we're supposed to have four and we've had one I think and I'll have to go back and check it was but maybe not they all run together I'm doing the outer loop in Coppin and Rockwell County too so I can't remember who's done what thank you you know is this our last one that's somebody else I just put it in here so y'all can yell out yeah I know we just except we have right under it a water main break and I'm asking what what's the relationship of this finishing with this water main break and who's on the hook for it and who's on the hook for repairing the road I'm not answering that yeah danger Kramer deputy director of operations we're still looking into everything that happened what it looks like is it wasn't a water main break looks like a drainage issue which pushed up so we're still investigating it looks like some repairs were done in the area and we're still trying to figure exactly what's happening so as we find out more we'll let you know so I get no I appreciate that I guess it's in the direction of who owns the road currently because we were in the midst of transitioning it from the state to us so Eagle was always going to remain part of the state because that connects 377 okay Elman Locust will be turned over to the city after they are complete on that all right so we're gonna we're gonna unfortunate not unfortunately we're going to maintain our lovely dance on on that stretch of Eagle for okay correct because you've got 377 going through your city so that is my last one I think you know it just so happens that I'm a retired teacher and so I'm always in and we have it educated here next to me it's always um this has probably been the most informative meeting that I've been in not saying John this doesn't have anything to do with you but what it does I was not talking about John I was talking about the process yes but thank you so much for going in a bit of more detail you know on some of these things and I'm just gonna say with that being said in it I don't know how we're gonna get the public to just be more curious about you know what's happening around here and what we're trying to do here what I'm trying to do is to give them as much information as possible now that we're in this big project up here on north of us that you were just talking about and you'd go in in the detail as to how that's happening is that no one person is just sitting around just making these decisions no you all are spending time at this time speaking to people you're gonna get ready for these public meetings and then at some point there's going to be some hearings and then we can get started on that in that roadway and that's just gonna be years again a years long years and years long project so thank you John appreciate you and the questions too guys thank you all for asking some you know if we need some information so thank you all right so we'll move on to see MC 24 - 0 1 5 of our staff memorandums so we have a couple of items on the staff memo for you the the bollard placement if you have any questions on that Chandra and/or dr. but is available to answer do you want me to go through each one of them and then take questions or how do you want I don't know what do you all think okay uh let's just not do that for you know sick of time but we if there are any questions look like you had a question yes sir so no I don't mind streamlining because we can just respond to the back of materials but I guess pardon me I guess the reason I asked for this item to be put on is to get a better understanding of what where we can use them and I don't give an example and how we should use them in sort of and some of the aesthetic complaints that we've had especially on Old North because it doesn't actually match this description and and so yeah I see Scott so the this this says hey we use these case 71 ballards any questions that's what that says and I'm being a little harsh on it because it's thin and what I was trying to get is guidance what's allowed I can go I can go read the the state engineering and federal engineering manuals I was hoping not to I was hoping to use your time to streamline and in particular the sort of not that we use them but what are our options for places that we would use them and I think no you no one's grousing about Parkway about Ector about other a little bit but I mean I'm not hearing it anyway and and I think if you compare the ones that have less grousing it is there can there were a consistent pattern of use and replacement and and I'm trying to get to where where you know what where can we use these things to fulfill that their mission on say something like an old north and still and so that I was trying to get more information figure out what more options what what our opportunities were and I'm being a little critical because that's it yes ma'am I think our question I think our question is okay an update you've given us an update and the update says we've made this decision now when I say we I think that's the part that he's probably missing out of this context is to we don't feel like you're talking about we us the people that live you know in that area have you all done that particular kind of work to satisfy this or you know we as a citizen take your expertise into knowing that this type of product is best for us how does that correlate to what he's saying okay good morning everyone Chandra city traffic engineer so mostly we use the flexible bollards which is the case 71 type that we have for lane delineation and separation between the motor vehicles and the pedestrians but to be specific to answer councilmember may report him big it's it's only for like pedestrian separations so far and those are retractable and it can take impacts from trucks and it can stand back up and we don't use the metal ones or the concrete ones that for federal buildings that for the safety of the building itself and the contents inside so for other products we do not have in our toolbox and we could explore more but so far case 71 has been the approved devices that we use and have publications extensively that used in other cities as well so if I can follow up what I'm hearing you ask and so I want to clarify you're asking when we can be using them when more on the planning process side for when we're thinking about putting in bollards not necessarily the specific type that we're using or both so yes that but also I think it's unclear what what our options are in different locations okay cuz got everywhere I mean if we're if we're nailed down if we're using if we make the executive decision to only use case everyone bought bollards just so that's what we have in our warehouse as a supply and we're shoe warning seven different kinds of uses in the case everyone's then that may be one of the reasons that we you know there may or may not be happiness with it because it fits better in certain circumstances than others and and I think as a request for information so that we can provide policy recommendations it is more understanding what the universe could go there and how well case 71 matches the universe of options and whether that really is the best thing or whether we should be looking at something else for given locations not we're not trying I'm not trying to set the second guess that we only want to store he said he was in our in our warehouse that it's an easy one it's cheap right but the if there's locations where we want to recommend to counsel that we should go more or go less then we need to know what the options are I was gonna suggest we could probably put together an ISR for you and outline the book provide more more information and then we can bring that back to the next meeting I think part of what I'm hearing Brian say is is I guess you're kind of looking for other options for Old North partially that maybe you're more amenable to the neighborhood what I would advocate for is that we only use the K 71s for bike ped delineation because when I bike on Old North and I'm not driving biking in the parking lane people get really aggressive and it's really scary and because they think it's a bike lane and it's not a bike lane it's a parking lane you can bike in if it's empty but swerving in and out of cars is very dangerous but people think it's a bike lane I've I've a lady threatened me quite significantly one day nearly ran me over because I wasn't in the parking lane where she thought I should be because she thought it was a bike lane so I would definitely advocate for consistency of use for the K 71s but I my understanding was these were placed on Old North basically as traffic calming because people were using the parking lane to pass is what I think I recall so I mean so it sounds like it sounds like we need to maybe experiment with some alternative ways to prevent people from driving in the parking lane I would advocate against using K 71s if it's not actually a bike or peddling anybody else well it just so happens that I flew in from Denver Colorado yesterday and why and I was there for four days and I mean I was totally obsessed with bike lanes and parking I in and I was I think this was the first time that I was able to go in and just kind of feel the city I was in all over the city and I was very impressed and was trying to understand how they had all that laid out because I can see the people biking and taking public transportation I could see that it was so clearly evident and I was thinking about Susie the entire time that I was there because it was just laid out in certain kind of way because you have to have space for parking then biking and how they use some of those bus lanes you know for certain things and narrowing the roads and maybe having some over here I mean I was really really obsessed with it and taking it in so I do understand what Susie is saying in regards to using a particular type of material for a particular reason and in the end educating the public on you know and it's gonna take some time so you got a lot of work to do and plus there was all of this lime green you know going everywhere and crosswalks they were all lined out in colors so people could you know understand so I'm really looking forward to our city trying to figure that out for us because our roads are way different a lot of narrow and neighborhoods and stuff like that on these new neighborhoods so it's gonna be interesting to see how we pull all of that out sure thank you very much back here you're good okay thank you anything else for any other section okay you had some I think Hickory Creek Road was on here right I think I read that yesterday is that right it was on the project update so the construction oh so that's the next thing update I can wait it's mentioned in this memo at the bottom I've been getting questions about from people who live down there that notice it from at least what they're saying it hasn't been touched in several months they were told that some things were settling and I just looked on the website and looks like for the past three months it's been settling and then the most recent thing I heard or here I saw that it's the railroad so kind of where are we with that I see that they're supposed to start moving again soon yeah so Seth Garcia deputy director of capital projects so we are at a stall as John mentioned earlier the railroad can come in and throw a kink pretty quickly to derail a project so Kansas City Southern sold out while we were working through our CM agreement for the overpass at grade crossing Ben's laughing he knows so we've been going back and forth quite a bit with them as well as with encore to provide power to the existing lights and gates before we take the crossing out so we have the agreement with encore done and they are currently getting temp power over to power the lights and gates we're meeting with the railroad weekly trying to hash out the terms of the CM agreement so once we get that in place we currently kind of are at a standstill we also need to get the overpass agreement in place to get a gas line moved out of the way as well so once those three things happen which is kind of a perfect storm of things our contractor will be back out there and we'll be able to take off with construction again and just out of curiosity for future reference how long does it normally take for things to settle typically so when you say settle this person called it pylons but elsewhere I saw it called not a berry basically where the bridge is gonna sit the supports gotcha yeah so it's varies by construction again that's that's not currently what we're waiting on is for any settling to happen or anything with the abutments but yeah so so that's not currently the problem but again that kind of varies based off the design what's the range typically ish I'm happy yeah it's there's a huge I don't even know where to guess to be honest with you okay yeah months to years okay yeah it's very variable thank you um looking on the back of the side a question about Westgate this Westgate if you remember off the top your head is Westgate behind schedule and or costing more than we anticipated I know it's behind schedule what's the do we know why generally speaking yeah so Seth Garcia again so currently we're at 90% plans we're working with a couple property owners out there where we're gonna need to take some right away and acquire it again kind of the grandiose so plan is have Westgate and Bonnie Bray six going concurrently again we're adding milestones in the Westgate contract to provide that east-west connection first to be able to alleviate some of the high school traffic right now our biggest critical path is going to be the right away acquisition we're currently talking with the property owner on multiple projects they're one that we deal with quite frequently so I wouldn't say the design is necessarily behind but currently the right away acquisition is not quite where we need it to be but again we're trying to sync up the Bonnie Bray six the rainy road east and Westgate all at one time to make sure we're coordinating those construction efforts okay and obviously it's gonna cost more money than we anticipated to so looking at current OPC sees the construction dollars as they John talked about earlier we are continuing to see an increase in kind of construction costs I think the biggest one is going to be the right away acquisition that we're dealing with there not knowing where we're gonna land if we have to condemn of course prices go up but again that's that's kind of the biggest variable cost that we have our eyes on right now thanks thank you if I may I just have one other item on the Woodrow Lane and more Street traffic signal so they did determine that traffic signal is warranted at that intersection so we're gonna add it to a budget but it's still not funding funded so it's gonna be funded dependent funding dependent on whether when that will be actually constructed and I agree it's needed because there's a hill when you're at that T you look to the south I remember once upon a time and that hasn't been that long ago there was a caution light for school crossing you remember being here that long to remember a school crossing light at the time when Alexander Elementary School was letting out they would have that light going for the kids and so I'm coming back to the notion that there's a brand new apartment complex that it's coming up over there on Woodrow and I do understand some families are gonna be living there and I haven't done the homework I haven't even picked the phone up to ask you know what the school's children would be going to will they go to Alexander or are they going to Rivera so then they're going to have to cross that road I'm just not sure that you know that conversation has been part of the conversation yet I know I've asked about it maybe several months ago so and then this is why the question of a light being at Morris and Woodrow the necessity of that and us being able to get those kids over across the street because they're not gonna be busting no and I think we'll we'll do we'll do some homework and get something reported back to you so just ultimately kind of what that plan might look like near mid and long term okay so you'll get back to us we're ready to speak on that okay then that one is very important to me that's my little situation right there we've got to address that and they're coming along with it and your concern is that not only do we need a crossing from the apartment complex over by the old the old shelter but also not making those kids walk down to this new proposed life to help us get that concern under so I'm not gonna worry about it right now as long as I know that it's you know it's part of of that and how some of those people are driving more people and those people are driving way more faster than I remember it ever being out there in that area I agree I agree with the stoplight of my question is on the east side of Woodrow next to obviously the city facility I assume that land is zone light industrial any plans to I guess is that Tom Fouts name what they're gonna do with that what's gonna come in the future the vacant lot next to a facilities management I think it's for sale right now and I guess I'm extrapolating here but I'm asking what might the future consequences yield if we put a stoplight there given what's gonna come to that area and that when they sell that field I will accept I don't know I'm just talking out loud so it's okay we'll make that determination as traffic warrants require that site is proposed to be developed as light industrial okay okay all right that I think the drive the drive may change there and that location may change where that drive is at so just there may be some alignment but that'll be part of it like Scott thank you for bringing that up because I was a question that I was gonna ask anybody else okay I do want to with including items anybody I have one um Farhan would like to introduce some new staff members to everyone morning chair committee members Farhan but deputy director of transportation services division I am pleased to inform you that we had three vacant positions one senior planner bike pad and ADA and that position has been filled we have hired Gregory Scott Greg comes to us with 30 years of experience on bike pad planning and has done a lot of projects all over US and he's also he's got diverse experience on when it comes to ADA as well and has you know participated in many processes and process developments when it comes to ADA Greg is in the move right now he's moving from Portland which is Viking heaven yeah and so he's he's hauling his stuff and then he's gonna be here within I guess it's three to four days drive for him so he'll be here soon I'm assuming that by mid-june he'll be he'll be here in the city office and then I would like to introduce Sahar Asfandyari Sahar has a PhD in urban planning and she has several years of experience in transportation planning and also a public engagement when it comes to comes to transportation projects she comes to us from Plano and has is interested in planning processes here and then also participating in many public engagement processes for various projects and then we have Raqib Alam Raqib comes to us from Florida Lee County Florida and he has a PhD in civil engineering and has several years of experience in transportation planning and also traffic engineering his focus is development review processes and has also along with his publication dissertation his publication is on has several publications on data mining including fusion with Python and and many other programming languages I think I think Raqib's focus would be on development review and data mining and also he'll be helping us with traffic engineering data integrations as we go I'm hoping to develop data integration process for for traffic operations as well and that's where we are hoping that Raqib will be able to help us so now we know who now we know who Brian is gonna be hanging out with every weekend when Gregory gets here I want to go on the bike ride with you guys I know you go ask me on a bike ride around the city I'm going to well I know I'm not gonna go but I will support it bounce the prayers just a little bit I almost actually got on one of those let me tell you my experience in Colorado was really thought-provoking because I've literally almost I didn't really want to walk and I literally almost got on yes and my daughter said well I'm gonna take the scooter and you can take then I'm like and she was like for real mom you can do it and I just blew it off but I made the walk I made the walk it was like a almost a mile we were going anyway I don't want to spend any time so I'm gonna move on well the last thing that I like to say and of course encourage each and every one of us in this room to get more people to watch these meetings so they can become informed and educated to know that now we have our very own data mining person out there we are considerate of their concerns so you all let's try to do that let's just try to get more people to start watching at least this particular meeting because infrastructure is very important yes sir are we doing other matrix items or when are you doing those I'm not sure what you mean other matrix oh I'm sorry yeah you can stay basic here does anybody have any questions the comments and concerns on any future apps that we have you yes sir so I was approached by the folks in the new razor school district zone who do the bike bus Stephanie okay what's her last name Brooks Brooks then and they would very much appreciate when Scott when Greg Scott gets here helping map out a safe routes to the school kind of destination pathing for the bike bus but pedestrian quarters in general I mean I know that such a map there's already a plan for safe routes to the school for every school but but this is a unique occurrence because of the bike bus situation and the fact that the school is new and they're in the throes of planning pick up and drop off of cars and keeping the bike pit people separate from the pickup and drop off people and and it is the perfect time to do this this destination pathing and I think this is an easy win for mr. Scott like really quickly he could probably solve this in a week so and work with the stakeholders so I'm gonna recommend that even if it's not a matrix item that you at least get to that when he gets here give him an easy win and getting started rolling I'd like to propose that maybe in the next meeting or next two meetings we begin to look at trip funds for DCTA next year previously I pitched for this year's trip funds that we use them to purchase service from DCTA because there's so many areas of our city that just do not have a DCTA bus service and I'd like to revisit that for the 2025 trip funds thank you as in purchasing a route yes okay cool question real quick John those funds you were talking about those funds are for roadway projects or transportation related projects with the toll funds transportation related projects so can we check on all of the parameters that that whole money could be used for particularly I'm thinking about bus stops covered bus stops I know that in future phases for DCTA they're planning that and I know that they're also planning on getting some of that money from the cog what prevents us from asking the cog and not waiting for their future phases so we can get this done a little bit sooner that's something you can check on does that make sense we can check on it but I'm gonna tell you if you already know that I mean DCTA gets sales tax money from all of the participating cities so didn't alone is about 19 million dollars of their budget so I would propose that they use their the funding that they have available and have set aside for bus stops but I thought they're just gonna get that's where it comes that's where it comes from but they're they're just gonna get it from the car right no they're there they get a portion of our sales tax so anytime you shop and get in a portion of that sales tax funding goes to DCTA I seriously I guess I was under the incorrect assumption that they would not use their money they would ask the cog for that money since it is a transportation-related item and everything that goes along with bus stops what I'm trying to figure out as a way and we cannot wait until phase four four years from now that's all so and we're doing some work well we'll get back we'll get back on that I did want to stay on that topic in using that money is this money available like right now the RTR funding the DCTA funding the trip funding no it's a trip funding the same as what the funding that he's talking about no there's he's talking about RTR money and she's saying that there's money 19 million dollars out there that's part of DCTA's budget that's their budget yes what is and are we asking them and we're not that's not RTA money so I mean that's not true money um that's that's their money that they have that's set it up and they're ready to be used so why are they not using it right okay so we're not posted for that but if you know I guess we were kind of going down into a rabbit hole on here thank you for bringing that back that's your job that's what you're supposed to do so I'll just leave it right there but I was gonna say we're working on trying to get DCTA to come present at a upcoming meeting we haven't been able to get our schedules aligned yet but I think those are questions that you could very easily ask them okay when they present okay well I thought I was just clarifying you know a certain thing but apparently that took us somewhere else that we didn't need to go right now thank you all any other questions anything else for matrix the matrix all right well I just want to and for concluding items and now we're in concluding items I wanted to just ask the community to download that engaged didn't app it really does work I've seen some things just happen just because of being put in so we're asking the public to go ahead and just download the engaged in app and become a part of the community and keeping us great by turning in things the other thing is I want the community to go out to that discuss didn't comm the city said that they were transparent and letting us know what's going on and so you any questions that you may have the answer may be there so start there anything else in that regard if there's not anything else then we can conclude the meeting at 1115 and thank you all for being here