Sep 11, 2023 Historic Landmark Commission on 2023-09-11 5:30 PM

Exactly. All right, I'm going to call the regular meeting to order at 5.46 p.m. and our first order of business is the Pledge to the United States and Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, one under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. All right. All right, our second item for consideration is item 2A, HLC 23-038 on our agenda is to consider approval of the minutes for the June 12th, 2023 meeting and I will entertain a motion or discussion of minutes. And I will move their approval. Thank you, Lance. All right, and we will have a vote all of it. Yes, please raise your hand. All right. Okay. Number three, we are going to have a work session item 3A, number HLC 23-039 on our agenda is a presentation and discussion regarding the three area plans being conducted by the city of Stittens planning division. And I think they're all here. Yes, we have everyone here. Thank you so much, Chair. So I stated this is a discussion regarding the City of Denton area plans. So just a brief table of contents. First, we're going to kind of just cover the background as to how we got to these area plans. Specifically, what is an area plan? We'll be hiring each of the three area plans that we're currently in the process of in the planning division. So the Northeast Denton area plan, Southeast Denton area plan, and then that downtown plan update, and then we can stand for any questions at the end. But I can ask my colleague, or I guess I'll give the background first, and then I'll have the Northeast and then the Southeast will do it that way. So just a background, this all came forward to the City Council on April 5, 2022. At that time, City Council did ask that the planning division proceed with these three area plans at Southeast, Northeast, and downtown. City Council directed staff to specifically start with Northeast first, then do Southeast, and then start with that downtown plan, which just launched a couple weeks ago. And just kind of talk about the area plans themselves. They're really to guide those different areas over the next 20 years with, I guess, running parallel with that Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan. So that kind of leads to that, what is an area plan specifically? The area plan is a document that provides guidelines for specific policies, actions that are consistent with that Denton 2040 Comprehensive Plan, but as well as that community vision specific for that area. It allows the City specifically to address those more refined specific planning and development challenges that those areas are experiencing, and opportunities at a scale that's more specific. So they can do it by neighborhood, certain street corridors, certain districts, and I'm going to invite the Northeast area team to come up, introduce themselves, and then we can jump right in. I was going to say, while you're doing that, if I could add to your other slide. So keep in mind, the area plans really came about as a result of our adoption of the Comprehensive Plan, the Denton 2040 Plan. The Comprehensive Plan is kind of that 30,000 level policy view document, right? So area plans allows them to do a much more deeper dive analysis on that given area to what Cameron was speaking to. So that allows us to do much more targeted public engagement associated with it. We do use the Comprehensive Plan as kind of the overarching guide for policy for the area plans, but also as we're doing our deep dive analysis on these area plans, it may allow us to make some adjustments to what our land use recommendations are, mobility, maybe we're looking at housing character, historic appropriateness. So it really allows that much deeper dive analysis associated with that. But I just wanted to add that kind of finer point to how we came about with those. Your turn now. Thank you. You're welcome. Hi, everybody. My name is Angie Manglaris. I'm the project manager for the Northeast Den Area Plan. Ms. Mia Hines is working as the assistant project manager on this area plan. And it's my pleasure to give you guys an update as to where we are on this plan, what's been done so far, our next steps, as well as cover some of the historic assets that are in the area. So the Northeast Den Area Plan is a bit larger than some of our other area plans. It's approximately 13.3 square miles with 46% of that being within Denton city limits and approximately 53% of that area being outside of Denton city limits. It presents kind of a unique situation as the city only really has land use authority in the 46% that is within the city limits while the rest of it is in what we call our ETJ or our extraterritorial jurisdiction. On the right of your screen, you can kind of see the general area that we're talking about, certainly north of Loop 288, east of FM 428, and then the Cooper Creek provides that eastern boundary with 380 being our southern boundary. Is that the area that the entire area or the area that we can control? Good question. So this area outlined in yellow is the entire area planned and we affectionately call these areas that are not highlighted in green kind of the donut of the plans. Those are the areas that are in the ETJ. The remainder is in the city limits where we do have zoning authority. The purpose of the Northeast Den Area Plan is to identify areas that are important to residents and stakeholders alike, to plan for development, to identify areas where change can occur, to get suggestions where we can make future improvements and those improvements would include capital projects, policy changes, all for this area. We kicked off this project at the beginning of the year so we have covered some ground. We've had stakeholder interviews, we've had two community open houses as well as a strategic foresight workshop where we invited our stakeholders to come participate in an all-day event where we really looked at the area close up, broke up into groups, talked about different strategies, what individuals wanted to see. From that we've conducted online engagement and have drafted some existing conditions reports and developed a draft division statement for the plan which has helped kind of develop our draft scenarios. The scenarios are what will be played out into what this plan will look like, what the end result will be. That's kind of where we're at right now. So in August we had a joint workshop with our Northeast Den Steering Committee, the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council where they discussed two different scenarios on how this plan could play out. They voted to choose one. We'll go into that detail a little bit and that draft scenario is currently being developed further at this time. So the project team is developing implementation actions that will result in a draft final plan which will then go to community input. We'll discuss implementation strategies and then we'll receive final direction from Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council which is all to come through the rest of this fall ideally finishing up by the end of the calendar year. Like I said we've had quite a bit of public engagement. We did have stakeholder interviews where we interviewed one-on-one individuals, 25 that was between elected officials, landowners, residents, both county and city residents, our partnering agencies like TechStop as well as developers who own large areas of land within the area. We've also had two visioning workshops. Those were held at Hodge Elementary. Between the two we had approximately 265 attendees and then we also conducted online engagement and then following that we did have a strategic foresight workshop where we spent the day with approximately 40 individuals. Those were students, those were professors, those were city residents, county residents, stakeholders, large landowners as well as elected and appointed officials. From all of this we've heard quite a bit. Kind of giving you an overview of all this. From our elected and appointed officials we've gotten the feedback of managing expectations. Like I said the city can only control what really happens in 46% of the area. The residents of the area would like to see zoning kept as is with larger lot residential development. Developers see the need for higher density development in order to be able to preserve larger areas of open space. Everyone seemed to think there is a need for grocery stores and restaurants in the area and the majority were okay with the concept of cluster development but had different opinions on what that would look like. So cluster development would be maybe having higher density areas of residential development in order to preserve areas of public open space. Our vision a workshop this was the workshops that we had with the communities at our open houses. We heard a lot of different opinions. This is coming from what we had as a six word story. These were some of the common themes that we heard. They range from way way way too much construction to keep rural areas please and there's a general overall sentiment of preserving natural spaces where possible. Our strategic foresight workshop we held similar activities but on a more in-depth look. Again there were common themes of taking care of the environment, improving our infrastructure, working together to find consensus, create live work play environments and provide a diversity of housing that could accommodate for a variety of different houses at different price points, sizes, and affordability. So from all of that we have we composed and individuals voted on a draft vision statement. I'm not going to read this all for you however you're more than welcome to take a look at our discussed end page but the common themes are what you have seen kind of in our earlier feedback prioritization of environmental preservation, preservation of historic spaces, providing opportunities for recreation, look at conservation development, and established northeast Denton is a special place for all to enjoy. From our draft vision statement two draft scenarios were proposed and considered at the joint steering committee planning and zoning commission workshop with city council and the consensus was to move forward with the development of scenario two which balances communities desire with the development natural development that is occurring in the area. The goal of this scenario is to preserve rural character by proposing lower density in the center of the study area with higher density development along the edges. The study plans for new development and provides physical and land use measures to provide preservation opportunities for hundreds of acres of public open space. So that is a five-minute recap of where we are currently with the Northeast Dent area plan. There are historical assets in the area and that's why I'm here to kind of talk to you guys today. So there are five that we really identified in our existing conditions report those are the Cooper Creek School, the Cooper Creek Baptist Church, the Cooper Creek Cemetery, Denton's Poor Farm, and the Hartley Airfield. So the Cooper Creek School was formally established in 1876. The community was formed in 1872. It was a one-room building and it served approximately 39 students. Fun fact during the 1918 smallpox endemic a doctor worked there and helped take care of sick children who were afflicted by that. The school did close in 1951. The Cooper Creek Cemetery Association currently maintains it and it was recorded Texas historic landmark in 2012. Nearby is the Cooper Creek Baptist Church. It was started being used in 1872 kind of when that community was established. In 1916 Mr. Collins donated land to the church to build their new sanctuary. In 1961 the church added a new steeple and expanded into smaller buildings. The current sanctuary that you would see out there today was constructed in 2000 on that original land and it was recorded Texas historic landmark in 2012. With that I'm going to let Ms. Mia. Mia Hines, Associate Planner IMD Assistant Project Manager for the Northeast Area Plan coming on. Push it through the finish line as Ron Manguita is leaving us. So helping Angie assist with this with this plan. I'm also the assistant project manager for the Southeast Area Plan. So I'm going to close out with some of our historic assets in Northeastern and then start up on the Southeast Park as well. So just continuing on with what Angie was discussing the Cooper Creek Cemetery is one of the last remaining remnants of the small rural community dating back to before the Civil War. A deed from 1878 evidences is the establishment of the Cooper Creek Cemetery on this site. This site holds the bodies of residents, civil leaders, veterans or early settlers from that from this area and around that time period. This one in particular is not segregated by race or religion like most of the cemeteries were established around that time period. And today the Cooper Creek Cemetery Association cares and maintains for this specific area and it was designated as a historic Texas cemetery in 2011. Another asset excuse me in this area within our within this project area from is the Denton Port Farm from 1883 to 1949 ran by Denton County and the the operation of this port farm the Denton County Port Farm consisted of approximately 347 acres. The land itself was used as a refugee for pauper's poor individuals with around that time period who were unable to care for themselves. It's my understanding that they worked on this farm and sort of provided the work and resources for them to exist and survive on this in this area. Approximately six to 17 people were living in on that in that area. Lastly we have Hartley Airfield. This was opened in 1939 by Civilian Aeronautics Authority and the North Texas State Teachers College as a pilot training program. George Hart and Beatrice Lee later purchased the area which encompasses approximately 600 acres and expanded it to include some airplane hangars and some runways creating what we know now as Hartley Field. In early 1942 this site was used for military pilot training program during World War II and then following that private it was used it's been used as a private airfield for flight construction and was stationed a National Guard unit until 1955. So that pretty much concludes the historic assets for the northeastern area plan. I'll pause right here see if you have any any questions about what we've presented so far with northeast end and I might have to attack team and I'll call Angie up to answer some questions. I have a question. You don't know I always have questions. So with us historic structures and the land what is the plan? Is it to leave them? Sure so with the draft of the final plan the implementation strategies historic assets will be discussed and a plan will be laid out. Assets like Hartley Field are not a designated landmark yet and are in the ownership of private individuals so I know there is a desire to preserve those assets what that might look like is still to be determined and discussing with that private owner is an option I know we are interested in. Is that a desire on the part of the owner of the property or just the people in the area? I can't speak to the owner's desires specifically but I do know of the community members Hartley Field is seen as a valued asset that would ideally be preserved and restored to whatever it could be. And specifically going back to the farm what we want that is what because it's a large amount of land what would be the plan there? You want me to help? I would love for you. Finally for the record team of earnings that you record all the services so great question and we don't have all the answers determined on that just yet so you know a lot of it depends upon the ownership of you know how it's held under his current ownership refresh my memory was that a recorded Texas historic landmark? So if this was something that we were interested in maybe locally designating or designated at the state level then we could work with the property owner and let them know the benefits of designation and see where their interests lie from that perspective but a lot of it many times is it's educating these private property owners of you know here's a historic asset that we you've been able to identify as it relates to your property and you know what are your thoughts regarding your property and here's some of our ideas is what we think would be in the best interest of the property and just really working with them. You know back to the question on the Hartley Field assets they've had an opportunity to talk with the developer who is interested in developing that property one of the things that I flat out told them is that we have a historic asset here that we're very interested in how that is preserved and for the benefit of the community and at least started that as part of the conversation and and part of the expectation that we would like to some come see for so it's a lot of times these things they're part of the negotiations as property develops and a lot of it comes down to whether or not the property owner is willing right and that was the thought it's their individual property owned or the other ones that were actually have that you know designation are kept up with someone another group but these because you look at property owners and they're paying the taxes on them yeah so you can just you know negotiations there would be nice for that type of thing too if if possible if it gets to that yeah I mean our goal is really at the starting point bring to their attention especially because if they don't realize that they have this historic asset on their property at least that we've identified is getting them educated on the front end I know one of the items on the agenda this evening is to talk about the benefits of designation and helping them understand that and what some of the trade-offs might be related to that so it's it's just an ongoing conversation and hopefully finding a way we can have a win-win quick question how many property owners we talk about I don't know how many landowners are involved any of the annuals research I do not have that but if there's a desire we can we can find out and Cameron can kind of follow up on a q a portion yeah there's structures there too yeah I was just saying let's throw it beyond this a little bit of this in this area you thought obviously some sort of road and some structures that are here in this area obviously with with this web road and this piece coming off up here so you know and off with mango we've got some other aspects so yeah I will add that this is the best rough estimation that we could kind of surmise in reading about this it you know again this was in the in the 50s and a very large tract of land and we have general bounds by the two roads that you see there I believe it's Laney and Collins yeah knowing that it's about 350 acres this is to help illustrate and I was just saying before the northeast plan started myself in parks were kind of doing some initial research and we had some aerial footage of what it probably consisted of there was maybe about two structures those don't exist so the only thing that would probably come of this would be a Texas historical narrative marker or a local narrative marker due to the fact that there's no true structures in place that we know of there is potentially a cemetery that is under a dump site yeah and I know there was a cemetery on site and possibly a well right so um but we haven't been able to get access at least before I don't know if they'll be able to but at that time when parts and I were talking we were trying to get access but at the same time there's so much junk in that junkyard and that dump ground oh no that is it's yeah so I grew up country I don't know what that is so I'm sorry I don't want to belabor it but can I see the big map where this connects to the other historic sites you had oh yeah if you go back like a few slides yeah so it's approximately that there so historic designation I have friends with Randy Hunt who of course does work with different areas that can be designated different ways um and one of the things that he talks about when he goes to recruit homeowners is he will talk to him about here's these kind of tax breaks that this makes you eligible for right like if something is kind of brought back to kind of historic are we looking at a similar possibility here to be able to like get the homeowners to all go in if they get some type of so they they do have to be income producing properties so they would have to be rentals yeah so you're only eligible for state or federal historic tax incentives if it's an income producing property or non-profit oh yeah okay of course but there is a tax advantage if it's a structure and if they put money into the structure then they can get a tax um percentage at the level level that they're designated yes okay that's correct I'm a persuasion man I'm always looking for it thank you so well Angie not going to do our quick and I will jump to the southeast end of the area plan um okay so the purpose of the southeast end area plan uh we are all um aware of the the unfair and unjust practices that went on to think of within the Quaker Town area that led to the relocation of black families um the displacement of white families into the southeast end area which um tentatively is sort of a draft boundary we have uh bordered by Dallas Drive to the southwest Bell Avenue to the west East McKinney Street to the north uh Woodrow Lane to the east and then Shady Oaks and Teezy Lane to the south um and so we started off this plan uh what we wanted to focus on were identifying those areas that are really important to the residents and stakeholders so both the property owners current residents who live in the southeast end area um to give us some ideas for future improvements things on the city side that we've controlled but also help us respond to development inquiries based on um like I said what that that feedback from those residents and those stakeholders were um really really emphasizing that input really emphasizing that feedback from the residents and from the stakeholders making sure that what we have as a part of this plan is is truly driven by that community um that was the emphasis that's been our our approach and Julie will when I bring her up we'll talk about some of those public engagement efforts that we've done to make sure that we're really capturing the voices of those both the existing long-time residents the newer residents and those business owners and property owners within the southeast end area plan and of course ultimately in the end what we want to be able to do with this area plan is make recommendations for capital improvements and the necessary policy changes based on what we heard from the residents and stakeholders in this area and so with that similar to the northeast end area plan of course we set a plan to adopt or help us get through this planning effort this area planning effort we started we broke it up into four major phases and then with the fifth being implementation once once the plan is adopted the first phase is that discovery phase where like I said we really went out and talked to the residents um or I'm sorry got an understanding of what's on the ground and what's um what are some of those things that you can observe just sort of driving around from the outside looking in and then the five phases when we ran out and really talked to the residents we held the some listening sessions we did some intercept surveys like I said Julie we'll talk about some of those efforts here in a second like I said getting the input from the residents and the community members the stakeholders from the southeast end area and taking building off what we learned from the discovery phase into the defined phase and asking hey we observed this within you know this first portion of this planning exercise did we observe this correctly what are your thoughts on the things that we observed as residents as the people who use this environment on a daily date on a day-to-day basis next we will jump into or we are jumping into the development phase of the southeastern area plan where we'll take both of the things that we observe and the things that we've heard from the community and the stakeholders into some draft plans implementation brainstorming workshops we'll bring that forward to planning a zoning commission and the city council to get their feedback again part of the planning effort is we're building on top of these different things and making sure that so far are we hearing from the stakeholders are we hearing it correctly and are we putting that plan together properly and then finally we'll get into deliver where we have that final draft of the area plan bringing that to planning and zoning commission by way of a public hearing as well as city council for public hearing and final adoption and then the fund is the implementation phase of the of the plan where we actually have policy guidelines and policy changes and again if you know future land use map that again helps us respond to those development questions and inquiries that we receive so that we know how to how to move forward and with that i will hand it over to julie wyatt who's our project manager to talk about some of that in public public engagement efforts that we've done hi julie wyatt and just before i get started i put a button at each of your um places you could put one on your hat if you want right but so with our public engagement so each plan is a little different um if on northeast they started with those stakeholder interviews and then went to visioning well we took a different approach with that southeastern um mia mentioned that traumatic past of southeastern in quaker town and and so the first thing we wanted to do was go out and listen to the community it was really important to our our project team and our consultant and so that's where we started so we started with the first round of listening sessions um in april we had five sessions and um in person and then one virtual we had about 60 attendees um and we're going to talk about the questions that they asked in just a second because they were some tough questions um we uh after after we had that first listening session we we realized that we really hadn't gotten enough um uh most of the attendees at that first um um session of listening sessions were uh people in um over 65 um kind of that older um generation but when we when we did look at the demographics of denton and southeast denton we realized that denton is a young city um we have two colleges here and we've got a lot of young people and we weren't hearing from those young people um we also realized we hadn't heard from all of the demographic groups within southeastern we hadn't heard from the hispanic the latino um population and we wanted to make sure we heard from everybody so we had a second round of listening sessions in june and and um we pivoted a little bit we made sure we had an interpreter there so that all members of the community felt like they could participate we made it made sure that all of our advertising was in english and spanish and we had two more in-person listening sessions at that time um so some of the questions that were asked were um or or these were the 10 questions so how do you feel about living in denton today are there places in denton you don't feel welcome where do you feel welcome do you feel that southeast denton has been neglected underserved or did not receive its fair share of resources um have there been has there been harm or unjust practices done in denton that you'd like to share um what is your relationship with the city of denton what is your assessment of housing choice do you support multifamily development are you concerned about displacement or gentrification how do you evaluate those park systems or other infrastructure and then do you have about any concerns about proposed development projects so those questions were posed to the community um and they gave a lot of really good feedback um also with that second round of listening sessions we did something called intercept surveys because we realized not everybody is going to come to a community meeting uh and so we we went to the street and uh we talked to parents as they were picking up kids from the mlk center um we also talked to um uh people on the street at uh at a local restaurant we looked at google to see when those restaurants were the most popular and then we made sure we were there at that time we had interpreters so we could make sure that we could talk to all of the community members um and and then we um and we just interviewed people as they walked by and it was amazing uh we heard from a ton of people i think tina 75 or i've also heard 109 so i don't quite know how our consultant is is analyzing this data but we heard from a lot of people um and our translators were were so funny they got so into it and one lady got into the car with someone and just that it was really hot so um let's just say keep in mind it was like over 100 degrees and they're outside doing this yes so um so we've really got really great um some uh great feedback and um we're really glad that we we did that um so some key things that we heard from these listening sessions and the surveys is that um those unjust practices have not been forgotten um and they are uh the residents are frustrated by the lack of communication regarding the road construction project i don't know if you've driven through southeast denton recently but it feels like almost every road in southeast denton is currently under construction yes you know me and i have driven southeast denton um on a weekly basis for for the last since february and and we recently drove down the street me as like i've never been on the street before so but we did hear that um from the residents that there was there they wanted to hear more communication um speeding on local streets is a concern um we talked in a meeting this morning about how um with with the newly paved streets residents are realizing just how wide some of those streets in southeast denton are and so um they're worried about speeding parks and community facilities are cherished amenities fred moore park is just one of like it's just a gem in our community and it's one of the best situated parks um just in the neighborhood so it really is well loved there are mixed feelings about housing and affordability um and and as tina has rightly pointed out our first round of listening sessions was timed not great and that everyone got their new appraised value that week so there was a lot there was a lot of talk about about increased property values and the concerns about how that was going to impact families um residents feel that change is coming and um and they also want to hear more from us about planning and rezoning and that the city can improve its relationship with the community and that the infrastructure must be improved so um that first round of listening sessions staff actually wasn't invited that the the consultant really really wanted to hear from the community in a way that was unvarnished and that they would tell the you know give us the good the bad and the ugly and we feel really fortunate that that there was a lot of honesty and candor with the community um but there is hope for the future there's hope to improve race relations and get more unity and harmony that we have opportunities to improve our communication and provide opportunities for the younger generation to live and work in denim you know these area plans we're not planning for the for the people who who live there now we're we're we're planning for kids their kids and their kids kids and so we want to keep that in mind how do we how do we keep our kids in debt and how do we make it a place where they want to set up businesses and buy homes and and raise their families um some residents would support new development um if they were held harmless from the increase in property value um keeping those property taxes stable that um like i said everybody got their tax bill at that same time um we want to help alleviate concerns related to development um gentrification concerns and displacement fears once again stabilize those property value increases um and acknowledge that past harm from those unjust practices and and quaker town so based upon those um those key themes we had a visioning workshop so we had this at the beginning of august yes and um it was in the community it was at the american legion hall and the intent was to provide a community meeting with hands-on exercises we wanted to get feedback on our ideal street networks on our housing needs the share their visit of the community's vision for parks and the ideas for community um and so first uh so we're just going to talk about some of the boards and how those relate to those key themes so first i'm going to hear like what do you love about southeast end why why are you here um and then what is the community's dream for southeast end now we're not as far along and our planning efforts is northeast so we don't have all this data back but did want to share with you kind of what was discussed and what we wanted to hear from the community um we had a map at the visioning workshop about where the community wanted to see change um you know part part of both of these plans is we we want to hear from the community what areas do you want to preserve what is really near and dear to your heart and then where do you want to see that change and so we provided a map show them where those residential areas are and where the parks are and then where those undeveloped properties are so they can see maybe where there could be impacts um and then i think we talked about earlier um what is the boundary southeast end and how does that how does that relate to downtown because it's been a really big conversation and so we had our our project team had a light board so almost like a light bright everybody remembers that and they put a map down and then they allowed we tracing paper and allow community members to draw what they think southeast dent is and i think tina mentioned it it it went all the way some all the way up to bingo down to the mall so they're piling that data and so we can get a good a good boundary map not only it just the starting point that we use which was based upon an area plan that was done in 2000 but you know how the community defines itself today all right oh we talked about you know we heard we heard about unsafe streets and so we wanted to hear like where are those hot spots um where what are your concerns we hear about speeding on more street we hear about parents queuing up um to drop off kids at revera elementary we heard about um just on a micro level the um if you're if you're on wilson and you're trying to turn on leaky it can be really difficult to see and so maybe there need to be more stop signs there so we had really good conversations with the community about just those actionable items um that that they would like to see we talked about parks and trails um as i mentioned you know um fred moore park is a beloved park within the community but how can we be better um what what kind of trails would you like to see uh parks is looking to um add more to the slash pad at carl young park so what do we want to see what kind of improvements do we want to see in that area um and then this is where it gets to historic so we have a lot of historic assets in southeast and cameron shared with me that i 1996 historic resource survey and you look at that data and we've got some great structures and history within south east and so as part of that cameron met with our project team and really gave them kind of a lay of the land about historic preservation in texas and how we can use that to improve our neighborhoods in our community and so um and so they added that to the boards and um and she and cameron was holding court at the at the visioning she was one of the most popular corners at the visioning workshop because because um residents were to put dots on what what they felt was important and so she talked to the community about you know how to create historic districts what you would need to do to create historic districts and then what the benefits are for that um that you can um you know part of what we've heard about is that neighborhood character and and that is really important to community and so how you can um create either historic districts or conservation districts to preserve that character you know maybe there's some architectural elements there are themes throughout southeast end so how do we make sure that we encourage those kinds of um architectural themes and then and then what kind of tax credits you can get um because as as i mentioned gentrification and displacement was one of those concerns and if if um investment in properties can be um can be credited back in in property taxes and that really helps the community overall so we got some great conversation and i'm sure that this is going to continue to inform the plan and so that really concludes our discussion of southeast we're going to be coming by with more more public engagement so keep your ears out we'd love to see y'all there if you have any questions quick question for y'all so you mentioned the american legion where on did you hold these listening things did y'all go to church we you um american legion and then mlk were the were where we held the listening sessions um the intercept surveys we held um we had a booth at juneteenth um we also had um we had like i said we were set up at mlk um and then we also chose a restaurant along mckinney to try to capture um those community members you know one thing that we've learned and i i didn't put this slide in but we've had a lot of lessons along with this so it's been really um we we've tried to um make sure that we think about every every step that we've taken and how we can do better and what we need to do as we build and um and you know we we did postcards mailings to the community members to to get them to come out to the community but we also took out flyers so we've we now have a little route that mia and i drive to to take out flyers for each um to for each um event when we take out flyers we take a member of staff who can speak spanish so we can make sure that we can um have those restaurants along mckinney um so we can talk to them about the plan and make sure that they understand what the flyers for um we also uh help we handed out flyers at mlk during the back to school to give them to parents so we're really trying to um we've got social media pushes that we're doing so we're really trying to get the word out as much as possible um talk about the technology and then also the other connections that you've made within the community that the people so that like we've learned from a technology standpoint that they're more old school yes that is a good so we've heard from the community they really miss getting a daily paper every day they want you know the community community has indicated that really social media is not how to reach a lot of of of the residents now we're still doing it because we want we want high school kids to participate um but yeah tina's right the best success we've had is really just being in the community going to sedna meetings going to we like meetings me and i did the career fair at fred moore um maybe to inspire the next generation of planners and relationships with the pastors in the community yes forming relationships with the pastors in the community and so uh and then and then um you know asking who can you introduce us to so that's really how we've been successful is those personal relationships with the community thanks for making that extra effort yeah see that i'm very much appreciated yeah on the way that's all i was going to ask you said there's a sense from the community that they feel the change is coming is that coming from a place of apprehension or excitement or what how would you characterize that um apprehension is hot um well some of the part is um apprehension i think we've had some that um um maybe some of the younger generation um maybe a little more excited so um but i think older generations that are within the neighborhoods apprehension um part of that stems from a project that um julie if you want to point it out um it stems from a project a multi-family project that the zoning intolerance were in place to allow them to develop the property and so um it hints a lot of the conversation about what do people consider the boundaries of southeast town and why we were asking them because the area that is um that used to be what was that the trinity construction site or industrial site um you know what what was interesting is we heard from one of our steering committee members um at our last steering committee meaning that it's interesting um what people benchmark against and and i didn't i didn't realize it um but it was interesting hearing his perspective because he looked at it he remembers a time when that was the trinity industry site that it maybe had a hundred people that worked there that came and went and then it had maybe 50 trucks daily that came and went from that site so he remembers a time of that number of employees and the traffic associated with it and the number of trucks coming and go and so then he counterbalances that with now if it's being developed as multi-family um the number of units that are going there going in there and the potential number of people that could be coming and going the number of people obviously is much greater compared to what was there previously um you know some might think of the trinity industry site as um noisy pollutants in the area more industrial um nature operations where uh might not want to necessarily live next to that kind of heavier industrial operation but haven't heard so much of that concern of of the yesteryear right of having to live next to that um so i thought that was kind of an interesting counterbalance as it relates to that site but but we know um that that area around the train station is um of interest to some um hence you know trying to have that conversation with people what you do what do you consider southeast denton do you consider the area around the train station as part of southeast denton um i know lenny brought up um a couple months ago when we were talking about doing the area plan um conversation is you know there's something in the community that are concerned that we're trying to expand downtown into southeast denton and trying to understand that narrative also one of the things that we challenged the steering committee with at the last meeting is you know we need all of our areas of denton to be successful and and how do the two areas support each other are there opportunities in downtown that could provide benefits for the residents of southeast denton and really trying to engage in that conversation as well so it's um we don't have the answer yet on that one we're still trying to work with the community as it relates to that particular aspect i have a question so you mentioned the younger generation and can put thoughts around with that younger generation how we can keep the knowledge of the history there even though it was a horrible thing to transplant you know from quaker town and but i mean should we do that like you know what i mean it's like how do you keep that because the younger kids do they know about it do they appreciate where they are you know i just think of all these things and then i think about so i've got a multi question here then i think about if we were able to take different areas and designate them historic then you could do a sign you know what i mean that to really to show that so i've just wondered if that's been part of any discussion well we don't have the implementation yet but i would say that is a theme that we've talked about with the steering committee and with the community and that like this was the logo that the steering committee chose and they were very they wanted the the tree to show those roots because that was a really important aspect that that history of the of the community stays stays at the floor and that it's we understand that i was going to add angie to your question about you know communicating the story right so one of the things that our parks team is working on and my apologies shawn if this is in your in cameron's presentation but one of the things that our parks team is working on is really helping document that story and so the city is taking an active role in in helping that i know we've provided a financial support towards the documentary film that i believe is also being produced to be able to help tell the story of the events of quaker town one of the key components i will completely start to steal the thunder but one of the key components of the next project that's going to be presented on is addressing that aspect in working on quaker town park and in how we address not only the um the the events of the past i'm trying to think of cameron put this so eloquently the other day i was in a meeting with her um it's how do we embrace and document the the events of the past so 100 years ago combine that with the the o'neill ford um historical features that are there right and and how do we have both of those two historical time periods being able to be represented and telling the story of denton from that aspect so that the we're still working on health on on what that store how that story plays out it is communicated because back for the area plan and i was one interviewed with people with that when they were putting that together and i'm just wondering on the things that were said with that because i i distinctly remember some of the things that i said and it was you know we need to be cautious about what's butting up against our historic districts we we have to know you know and be mindful of those things uh also be mindful of things that are being torn down in the history that could because this last week we had a church right behind my house torn down and that was something from that community from bell avenue that now it's gone away and and those are significant things to me of communities that we have to be mindful of and so for this i just want to keep that um in a mine for or for the whole plan and for that history to not lose the history of how they if how it was created yeah i went to the last week's meeting i was just showing one of this puerpertown documentary the city is funded and they're getting excited about that um they're starting to build some real energy there around it and i feel like that's creating there are more younger people getting interested in that aspect than i've seen prior right so that's you're both nodding vigorously yeah we we went to the thursday night meeting okay and i volunteered cameron's social media uh expertise for them i already got the email she's really good yeah well and also um twu i know twu is doing a um five million dollar thank you um memorial in honor of puerpertown yep it's and it's going to be in the old golf course or that's part of the section i know um i don't know tons of detail but i it's close to five million dollars that they're putting in it's going to be amphitheater and there's going to be a lot of different plaques sharing the narrative of what happened um i've heard great things that it's going to be really nice um but that's what another project that's happening in parallel with the docu series in parallel with also what's happening with downtown and then also in southeast so there's tons and tons of projects going on right now which is amazing um talking about that history and really bringing light to it finally outside of a book so i'm excited to kind of see what's going on that's amazing um thank you because that that helps a lot because they're i feel like i i do a lot of work trying to keep track of what these different projects are doing and the more that i know the more excited i get and try to think about ways how can we connect them can we connect trails can we connect right like these different places and have a southeastern tour for something along those lines is there any talk about removing that god-awful cement plant which is a more recent addition to the area it really is it's off of prairie so um i know there has been i believe that's the site that there's been some interest in um by someone council um on how can we help find them an opportunity for a new home and um but i don't know how much progress is made on that it's um you know the other challenge is having a willing business having a business that's willing to relocate and move themselves and um and you know um trying to find them a place where works from them from their business model also from an environmental quality standpoint and working with tcaq but but we recognize that um yeah when when it comes to very intense uses like that especially when they're near our residential areas and also you know like southeast end and then on the edge of our downtown that we would like to find them hopefully in another place where they could be as equally successful if not more successful and to find ways to incentivize that right and we're thinking future here take not give permits for those types of things to really give in to this is what you want to do with this property we're not going to give you a permit for that it's not well so i mean because i know said it got there somehow well it will but but it's been there you know it's been there for some time right it wasn't there when i lived there how long ago was that when i moved out in i think 72 okay so the zoning that was in place at that time allowed for that used to occur there when um zoning can change but in a business still remains in operation but they have rights under federal law and case law that allow them to continue to be able to operate there we could make it somewhat uncomfortable from a non-conforming use standpoint and put limitations on when it comes to expansions of non-conforming uses so there there are some things that we have done know that though in bed when it comes to non-conforming uses we we are we are are flexible compared to some other communities that i've worked in i think there was a big zoning change in like 69 or something i know some of that area there used to have industrial zoning on it um and we're looking at some old maps the other day um and that's part of the challenging communities right where you had an area that was maybe on the edge of town or an area that did not have all of the development that exists around it today and so that was the industrial area of the community had industrial zoning businesses have moved in buildings have um located there and some of them have continued to remain and in being in operation there and unfortunately those are the challenges that we deal with continuing today so hence why you know would love to find them potentially another opportunity where they could relocate and be um just as successful if not even more successful um and and um so that we can help better position that part of our community for the longer term but i can't i can't force them out right they've got rights from a land view standpoint that are allowed to be there and they've got to be willing to want to move you're but you're right the zoning um we had a new zoning code in 1969 and then they updated it in 91 and then i believe with the 2002 development code a lot of that property changed from that industrial zoning to that downtown that old downtown zoning which is kind of how that addition that changed that zoning has changed in that area i was just going to say camera you know something other than a book or whatever seems like we have a documentary coming out that's fabulous it seems like they also developed on the same time the podcast there's not a week goes by someone's talking about another historical podcast you know is there one i know he's not doing it anymore when there's something else was it about quicker count it was it was just generally a dent deemed i was gonna say yeah sean got me roped into a podcast i think i've been on the job less than a he had kids and it would cost probably a tenth of what that multimedia well if we can talk to discover dent and they've got a downtown studio there and that's true but if they have the facilities existing i would be fabulous okay so on to the downtown plant update you all are the first ones to see this branding package here so staff has seen it it just launched last week so y'all are the first so hopefully you like it um but uh the title of it is designed downtown dentin um just a little bit of project background uh it the first downtown master plan was done in 2002 it needs to be updated obviously you need to see what's working has worked over the past 20 years um and really start to talk about the priorities for downturn in terms of growth looking at open space where it needs to be added potentially parking that's the number one thing that we always hear is there's parking issues downtown um the lack of housing that we're dealing with mobility multimodal transportation um kind of also connecting to the connectivity and also preservation of what's existing um so as i stated the purpose of it is to update that existing downtown plan from 2002 uh respond to development interests especially as that southern portion comes out of the floodplain right there along elm and locust uh positioned downtown for really that long-term success over the next 20 years and into the future um address how downtown really relates to those neighboring communities so southeast dentin those historic neighborhoods to the west over carol boulevard of hickory historic district um and then also as part of this plan it's also incorporating quaker town park uh so i'm going to invite sean jacobsen up he's going to go a little bit more in detail but uh that's the project background thank you so sean jacobsen assistant project manager on that one of the things we really enjoyed is our consultants actually took the various parts of the logo and broke that out into kind of the key aspects of our plan here so you'll see development and small business so it's very important for us to look at how we can encourage and promote a great environment for our small businesses to continue to succeed and see more of that mobility looking at encouraging better mobility across the board whether that's walking biking we do have a separate parking study going on and just looking at how we can best manage that uh cultural and arts so how do we create more spaces to encourage the wonderful arts and music scene we have to keep doing we have to encourage more of that course historic preservation and you know we know that's an incredibly important part of our downtown what makes part of what makes den den is square but then a lot of historic buildings around it i was we're doing a small business survey right now and i was in a building i never really thought of as like part of historic downtown and the owner saying yeah that's one of the reasons we chose this for our businesses we really like the history of this like that's good to hear we're like three blocks from the square and we're still talking about history that's wonderful and then of course parks and public spaces not only looking for that new design for quayertown park that really honors history there but also at are there opportunities for other locations for parks and trails in downtown increase in that green space in a way that benefits current and future residents so our overall project schedule we're right at the beginning right now we're in phase one we're looking at this to run most likely to adoption in june hopefully but right now just getting started phases there understand so right now really trying to gather data we've done quite a number of interviews we're also getting into the heart of our public engagement so really hearing from the community and also gathering a ton of data that'll go into envision so looking at the engagement summary reaching out to the community and starting to synthesize everything that we're gathering and our consultants doing that to begin to look at all right so what is the vision for downtown so going into phase three then beginning to put together an action plan for all right where do we want to go how do we get there and then finally that adoption period where we take that to our boards and commission city council and put that into something that is truly implementable we actually did have a phase zero before phase one and our consultants came in they took both a driving and a walking tour of downtown and at the end of it they they told us you guys are in a great place because denton loves dentons sometimes we have to start by getting people who love downtown you guys have that covered there was very much of a sense we don't want to break what you already have we just want to build on the great things you have here and also one of the things i appreciate from the historic preservation perspective uh overall we're working with a team called men collaborative but they've brought in a specific historic preservation team from post oak so we have dedicated historic preservation consultants on this plan if we're looking at our current historic preservation documents including denton square district and looking at all right so where might there be areas to improve this where might we be able to look at design standards and really looking obviously the history of whitetown park the o'neill ford legacy but that is a key stream of this where we have dedicated professionals who are excited to preserve and protect and increase our protections for our downtown history so again you can see here we work with staff we actually took that walking tour we're now in phase one where we're really getting to go out to the community we're out at arts and autos we got to talk with a bunch of families hear from people both uh who live in denton and also people who visit denton because we need both of that to have a thriving downtown we got a bunch of great feedback from people about what they love about downtown and also what they'd like to see and you're going to see a lot more of us we're going to be out uh at blues fest we're going to be out at jazz fest we'll be doing even going out to libraries and rec centers so particularly in september october even a little bit in november really reaching out here from the community we're going to have we've got a preview of our online site today there's going to be some cool community survey things including a photo contest the opportunity to put different comments on a map tell us what you love what you want to see we're going to have qr codes on coasters out of downtown businesses to encourage and many people as possible to take that survey we really appreciate y'all keep an eye on that so if you go to disgust and we'll have a link to the page there please get that out we want to hear from the entire city this is about downtown but it belongs to everybody so we want to get feedback from as many folks as possible particularly over these next few weeks but definitely look for swing by our table we're excited so again we have our first advisory group meeting coming up this week we have a 20 member team we're really excited just across the board representing those key stakeholder groups our consultants are going to be in town so we'll be at a parking day on on friday blues fest on saturday and sunday you want to come by and see us there community survey will be launching and then as i said ongoing public engagement really focusing on bringing in as much information as we possibly can at the front end so that that will drive then what is the vision for downtown and then from there what are the action steps that take us to that vision so happy to answer any questions are you all talking at all about parking we actually have a separate parking site so we're talking about parking with this but we are also doing a dedicated parking study to look specifically at that so we brought in another group that is going to be doing extensive analysis outreach and some fairly high level big data to look at where our drivers are parking are so where people are coming from who's using that parking over the course of the day and then to bring us options for how can we best manage our parking so yes it's a huge part of it not only this plan but also specifically with that parking study and that's being run by our transportation planning team it is currently under i guess the management of economic development because they use their budget for that parking study because it does relate to downtown businesses people who are utilizing the downtown area but we do have both of our transportation planners at carina malden auto and farhan but farhan bot he he is the director of transportation planning so they're both engaged in that and they are helping run that and get that implemented and so that they can give us that feedback regarding that and give it to the consultants from then collaborative well thank you for asking that yes um because when i said something about parking possibly shuttle parking and shuttling people in somebody said what's matter you don't like a walk but the reality is that you have to provide some way to get there are people just won't come then we'll go elsewhere not everyone's able to walk honestly that's one of the things that this plan is really going to look at is how do we strengthen those connections and try to figure out okay where you know if someone is parking in this particular location and they're meaning to get to downtown then what what is that walking experience like from from let's say that public parking lot to um to where they're trying to get to um are there other transportation opportunities that are available that might be implemented so maybe how we leverage existing relationships with dcta to help them but for longer term we can plan the idea you know someone told me that you have to first put the idea in the plan for it to become a reality so um we'll work on the budget for that one too right but um but to that point but it is it is looking at um you know where are people parking where are they trying to get to how do we strengthen those connections um because i think about and i'll use an example one of these days i'm going to take the train to denton um given my commute so i'm going to take the train to denton but i know that when i get off at the downtown station then my walk from the downtown station to here i've got to find probably the route that i feel is the most comfortable for me to be able to walk may or may not choose hickory because i know that hill's got some climb to it but but but those are like experiences that we take into consideration what what would make it more inviting more inviting you think of all those things with the walking and stuff sounds great on a perfect day so you know right but part of those connections then is okay because it is so hot here how do we provide more shade right um do are we do we get aggressive in trying to provide more street trees so that they have an opportunity to mature and provide some of that shade longer term maybe if i um am brave enough to ride a bike right and and get from the train station to here i haven't ridden a bike a long time so that's why i say if i'm pregnant but realistically if i'm one who does like to cycle like angie does um angie's much more proficient rider um obviously much more than i am but if i'm trying to ride my bike from point a to point b and i'm using that as a means of getting around downtown then how do we help make that much more in inviting for a cyclist who is interested in using that mode of transportation so our connections throughout downtown but also into the adjoining communities is going to be important you know earlier i mentioned you know does downtown provide an opportunity for the residents of southeast how do we help the residents of southeast and um feel comfortable with coming into downtown strengthening some of those connections between a neighborhood that's nearby with our downtown area so um so really you're really looking at those communities or even our neighborhoods to the north and to the south and over to the west on the other side of carol so it's um it is that's why you probably you know if you've noticed on all three of these plans mobility is addressed in some form or fashion because it's an important component to our land use planning and as we think about where we want these areas to be 20 years from now it's also in what i think for you know we have two large universities here and when i say trolley i mean i was kidding but kind of not because i am thinking to get people downtown but also you know wouldn't it be great to get on the trolley to learn and have a trolley take you around didn't take you down to the different historic districts and take you into quaker town and you know it would provide a couple of jobs for people i mean more jobs just thinking of that too i just think it would we used to have a rail line that's right we did the interment but i mean telling those types of stories and things but that could draw in more tourism as well if you give them something to do so this has been a recurring fantasy of mine is um i'm from Fayetteville Arkansas which has lots of interesting other transportation things around downtown where they have agreements where electric bikes now and the little electric scooters are far more integrated into their system i'd be real interested trying to figure out how they made that happen while it died on the vine here but Eureka Springs Arkansas has a trolley they are built there some people call them the swiss alps of the Ozarks because they're steep right and that trolley has a regular trolley line station that goes through the historic neighborhood into the downtown and then crawls it has a couple of stops in the outlying areas by the major where the major growth or the um not surprisingly hotels right and things like that and so it serves two functions it they have they have the one that's the limited route that just goes down the route then they have a longer one that connects them to the station that just goes down the round and the longer one is more set up to be more like picking up people who work and live out and where the apartments are further out right but their operation there is really fascinating because they they not surprisingly every city struggles with it right how to maintain it how to keep it going right but it's a cute little face cute little trolley they mix and match it so you know it has like a daily rate versus weekly rate etc but uh absolutely and he said that's Eureka Springs Eureka Springs are that's right well when they had them on the fourth of july i guess is that when it poured down right yes the one time it rained this summer just have parks roll out a really amazing event oh yes yes yes and i got rich but the the bus service park at north texas and brought people in i don't know how well that was publicized not very i don't think uh but there were buses and that was great you know you could just drive over there and park on the parking lot and hop on the bus and they circled you around there and dropped you off and came back and picked you up well there's a recurring fantasy about some of the local business owners because another concern is part when concerning parking are their employees park close right and then so what happens if you incentivize them being able to park for their way but now there's safety concerns like you know girls and young women traveling at night etc etc but the idea is that this might be something that we could get by in from both economic development standpoint but also you know possibly look at some grants in order to incentivize like you're saying like incentivize maybe a small business operation i think it's worth exploring there's more to add but so many hours on a day so with each of these plans so i think it was mia who said we get to get to the fun stuff on the implementation right so keep in mind each of these plans um will include an implementation chapter and i'll have a list of the series of action items that um ideally um we the city could undertake or identify other partners to be able to help and the recommendations of the plan come into fruition many times with these plans it is a combination of you know the city private property owners maybe other entities whether they're non-profits or other businesses and let's face it developers the developers have a role in helping us get our plans implemented so know that each of these air plans will have that implementation chapter it'll have a series of action items associated with it in some cases some of the plans might have certain action items that are prioritized over others typically they're identified in a short-term mid-term long-term goal might include just kind of a rough cost estimate whether or not it's low cost to the city to be able to implement versus like implementing a trolley system if there's a much greater cost associated with with something like that so and that becomes that becomes our roadmap to be able to work on and be able to implement so one of the things that we're really focused on is is trying to get to that implementation stage so that these area plans do just not that they just do not sit on a shelf and collect us and i would suggest looking at at all the federal programs for funding things because new mexico is a poor state but they have a heck of a lot of transportation and things available uh their their senior centers their seniors if they live within five miles of a center they can get picked up and dropped off wow yeah i visited a couple of them while i was what three all together while i was out there this summer and so and i know there's another little bus that runs around places so we we should we should look at every venue that might have a dime and maybe we can get a penny of it there you go i have a question i have a commitment at seven which i don't think it pretty much is so if i were what that would be able to function without me okay let's keep going quickly okay okay item 2b number hlc 23-35 on our agenda is to review and discuss the proposed historic designation letter for use by staff on behalf of historic landmark commission did you guys see this yes everyone should have a copy yes so this is what we had talked about back in june um commissioner treat obviously you were not with us at that time but i've been reading that okay um so this letter is essentially to express interest of designation on the historic landmarks commission so it would provide you know the basic introduction talk about a brief history or reasons that interest um in this property specifically talk about the different property owner benefits community benefits and then do a really quick and brief overview of what the difference is between a commemorative acknowledgement versus an actual designation status and that's what you see on that table in the back there talking about local county state and national and then specifically calling out where you could be tax exemption eligible which i think is really important because that's one of the biggest incentives of getting designated is like people want to see the money you know they want that property tax or whatever it may be so really calling attention to that um and then obviously underneath that there would be any additional grants that they could maybe be eligible for depending on what their property i guess in terms of historic integrity or if it's related to a cultural landmark or history i'm talking about it there and then the point of contact both at the county level who really handles those state county and national designations and then the local um designations which is myself um and then the new little slogan of let's preserve denton together so um i will welcome any feedback um i i hope it covers everything um but just so that you know commissioner treat this does relate to um 3c on the agenda um which i'll talk about a little bit more in detail uh but that is where this connects to that any questions comments we're gonna move along it looks good to me looks good looks good looks good to me i really like where you put that um what's said to help against with demolition they manage oh i like that yeah yeah potential historic yeah preserve okay we're gonna move on item 2c number hlc 23-036 on our agendas to receive a report hold the discussion give staff direction on the historic landmark commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties so i'm assuming we don't have any um properties up for potential designation today but i just wanted to provide commissioner treat a background on what this is um just a reminder this is a two it's similar to a city council style with a two-minute pitch you bring forward a property um as a commissioner that you think is of um interest in terms of being eligible for local designation you provide um a little bit of background the property you can provide a map you basically create a small little powerpoint presentation um and this creates a oh wait sorry this is matrix but this creates a um a living document where i add um continuously add and then this would be tied to that so when you all say you wanted to designate this building you say cameron we're going to designate this building and we all agree you get the the two or the three votes that is needed to put it on the list um once that's acquired i can send out this to that property owner saying there's interest and that's where we can start getting that conversation going to potentially get it designated so just want to provide that kind of cool background okay okay thank you for that okay item 2d number hlc 23-007 on our agenda is to hold a discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project mix um so we have three requests so now these all relate essentially back to november we had the quantifying the economic impact of preserving historic properties i started pulling together information for that um discussion regarding benefits for preserving historic properties i feel like this is kind of resolving that um request by hlc obviously you all can disagree with me but i think once we start getting this sent out it's really showing people how you can be incentivized to designate your property so i think we can take that off the matrix um this is something that we definitions ad hoc committee obviously at this point we don't really have any subcommittees um we've as you know we're having some issues about a lot of resignations as of late so we don't really have a definition ad hoc committee at this point so that doesn't need to be updated these are some items that have remained for items for consideration you all did receive that designation research report from legal on friday if you did not please let us know and then as a reminder these are our 2023 work plan goals so preparing that annual list potential landmarks tax exemption eligibility and obviously these are some things that are going to be addressed in those area plans but just wanted to highlight those again and then also as a reminder these are our future hlc meetings october 9th november 13th and december 11th um but is there anything you all want to add or nothing to add but one question yes on that i think if you'll scroll back up yeah so we talked about the churches and that were in the quaker town area so and you they said earlier in the presentations that there's been some relationships building yes with some of those pastors so is this something we're going to send or where are we with so um this is something that we can send i am not sure where we're at in terms of the southeast didn't plan if we want to send those as of yet because i know there was some of the churches were interested some were interested just initial conversations that we've heard um and i think back in in watch when this first came up or when we talked about this a couple of months ago i think this didn't we talk about hosting a meeting having the angels post a meeting as it relates to yes so we could send it to them as well as any other interested at property owners and be able to do that all collectively together yeah i just wondered where we were with that yeah i think it's great that y'all are building those relationships so i was hoping that yeah so i think once we get some of these letters sent out and include those original ones that we've already put on the list i think we have two properties then we can kind of have this sent out and then just say hey we would like to invite you all to a discussion if you're willing if not you know our contact information is in here we would love to talk to you with you further if you have any interest so um definitely once those letters are sent out i can let you all know just give me an update saying hey they've been sent out hopefully we hear something in the next week or two i'm happy to do that any other business to discuss if not i'm going to adjourn the meeting the meeting is adjourned at 7 12