Aug 23, 2023 Mobility Committee on 2023-08-23 8:00 AM

>> Good morning. We are here at the mobility committee, Wednesday, August 23rd, 8 a.m., in council work session room. We are determining that a quorum is present and we -- I think we're -- thank you. Someone else is showing up in the room. So I think we can just maybe leave B where he is now? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Great. So next on the item list is the citizens' comments. Do we have any citizens that want to comment? No. We're not in it here. So we'll move on to item number 2, items for individual consideration, AMC 23-027, consider approval of the minutes of July 26, 2023. >> I move approval. >> I say it. >> Is there a second? >> Yes. >> All right. I will now vote. >> Aye. >> Aye. Okay. So we'll move on to B, MC 23032, received nomination and elected committee chair and vice chair. Is there anyone who's interested in being the chair of the committee? >> I'm asking for the floor, not asking for the chair. >> Okay. You can have the floor. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair. I would like to nominate Vicki Byrd to continue as chair. >> Second. >> Okay. And I will agree to that. So we have the committee chair, Vicki Byrd, at their vote, all approval. >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Okay. And also vice chair, anyone interested in being the vice chair? Well, I'll nominate Ryan Beck for vice chair. >> I second that. >> I accept. >> All right. So all in approval, say aye. >> Aye. >> Okay. Great. Then we move down to C, MC 23-029, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the city of Denton transportation mobility project status report. >> My name is John Poulster with innovative transportation solutions and I work for the city of Denton. Should we make that a little larger? That's okay. We'll figure it out. All right. So I see some new faces. I'll go into a little bit more detail than I normally do on these projects. This page shows the projects that we're working on, what their potential let date is, if we know it. And a let date is when it's let for construction, which we anticipate it will go out for a bid for contracting. Who we think the firms are working on it, whether it's a construction or engineering firms and then the general rough construction amount that we are involved in with that particular project. So you'll see that this report covers about $4.5 billion worth of roadway improvements in and around Denton. So the first project we're going to go start up at the north is IH 35 north and you'll see that it's color coded. You got a green, a purple, whatever that middle one is, and then mustard, I guess, at the bottom. And they all have different, what's called a CSJ, and a CSJ for projects is like a road project social security number. That's how they identify it in the system with that CSJ number. And you'll note that this has four CSJs with four different ready to let dates and dollar amounts associated with each of those four. Now you'll see on your report you see a ready to let date and then a let date. The difference between a ready to let and a let date is the ready to let date is when you see the schematic approval is approved, the environmental document is approved, the roadway acquisition is acquired, and utilities are relocated. So once all those four items are done, the project is essentially ready to let and then it'll either have an asterisk in the let date timeframe, which means we don't have any funding, or if we do have funding on the left column, it will show you the let date where they have text that has the dollar amounts earmarked for that particular year. So we have the ability to move these projects up if we get them ready to let sooner than the let date. I noticed on CSJ ends in '76 that it's not on your list. You have 116 on your list, and I was just trying to understand. Can you educate me on the difference in the map versus the list? So I asked the same question at…or answers to me the other day. If you look in the green, there's an '084 and a 116, okay? So that covers the two on the bottom of ready to let, '084 and 116. Then there's the '081, and then there's the '074, the '076. I don't know if we have 455 in this report or not, I don't think we do. So FM455 was a project that goes all the way across the northern part of Denton County. So we're going from the lake east of Sanger all the way out to the county line improving FM455. So that project's already let and under construction, and so what TechSight decided to do for continuity because 455 can't get under the current existing 35 as it is designed to go ahead and let '076 with the FM455 job. So it's already under construction. So it doesn't show up in this report because it's being built with another project. It's another project, okay. I appreciate the clarity on that. Yes, sir. Before we move on, is there a way for us to quickly cross-reference? Because I don't think that project was on any of the rest of the slides for today's discussion. So that's a conversation we need to have. I've got more information. Yeah, clearly, you've got to be real quick. So this is for projects that are in and around Denton. And so Denton's got utilities in the '074 project, so they're part of this project up to where the yellow -- whatever that color is, I don't know, green -- We can call it yellow. Yellow. So we're just reporting the rest of it because it's all one job. So we can give you -- because we do a report for each one of the four commissioners. So each precinct has its own report like this that covers 455, Milam Road, Outer Loop, all these other things that are countywide. So we have the information we can provide, but typically, on the mobility, we try to stick to those that are in and around Denton. We can make it available. I'll reach out to staff for that, and I appreciate that. Thank you. I have a question. Yes, ma'am. It's just a general question, and I actually know the answer, but for the sake of new folks that are probably listening in, when you use the term "lit," can you explain what that is? Yes, ma'am. Well, we let it for construction is what letting means. So the commission, every third Thursday, opens up bids that they let out for the contractors to bid on in the first week, first Thursday of the month. So they let them out to the public contractors to bid on, which is the "let" term, and then they select the firm based on the lowest bid the third Thursday of the month when they do it. So when you see a "ready to let" date of October, that means a schematic environmental right of when utility is done. When you see a "let" date of July of 2026, that means in July, the first week of July, the project will be put on the street, let out for bid, and then on the third Thursday of the month, they'll select the firm that was the lowest bid. Thank you. And so on this project, you see that they have these "ready to let" dates of March, June, and June of 2024, and then July of 2026, and that is a function of, if you come down to the next page, you'll see there's a significant number of utilities that we're working on, and that "ready to let" for those CSJs is consistent with when those utility providers are telling us they'll have their utilities cleared so that the right-of-way is clear of any impediments to construct the project. So that's how we get to the "ready to let" dates. Can I ask you a question? Absolutely. So when the utilities move their, you know, I guess let's just say water, for me, and they move it and they move it over, is that area that they move it over to, is that already purchased? It depends. So if you're a utility provider in an easement and the state wants you to move away because they're going to take your easement and put it into their right-of-way for a road construction, then that utility provider has two options. They can see if they can fit inside the textile right-of-way because the outside 25 feet of a roadway is what's called an "accommodation zone" for utilities. So if you can fit in there, then you can go back in. But if you can't and you have an easement, then you're compensated to relocate by buying a new easement outside the right-of-way footprint and then moving your utilities. And that's reimbursable, you know, on an interstate it's always 100% reimbursable, on U.S. highways, state highways, and foreign to markets, you're only reimbursable if you're in your own easement. But if you're inside there right-of-way, you move at your own expense because you're there at the leisure of the state. >> Okay. Yeah, and I would just add, Councilmember Byrd, for 35, the majority of the entire project and Trevor can speak to it more if you'd like, we are relocating utilities into easements throughout that entire section. So that project for the majority is reimbursable. >> Okay. >> It's kind of standard practice for us because of the size of our water lines and sewer lines, whether they're collecting or intercepting wastewater or transmitting water, they're at the size, one, they're very large, and the accommodation zone, you saw all the utilities that are trying to fit in there, and typically it's kind of the first 3 to 10 feet that you're looking at trying to fit in because there's a lot of other things in that 25-foot of right-of-way drainage structures, et cetera. And then I would also mention that we also want them to be exclusive for the City of Denton Water and Wastewater easements because we want to be able to access and maintain our infrastructure. >> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> So then just south of this -- that project, we call it the I-35EW merge, and it's where the two 35s come together, and it ends at 77 where that previous job starts. And again, this one only has one CSJ, and it has multiple CSJ, but it only has one ready to let date because this whole project is going as a single project, and we are close approaching our April 2024 ready to let date, which is also the let date, so we have very little flexibility on hitting those marks. And so we're meeting regularly with all of these folks to make sure they hit their marks so that we can let these -- let this project in April, and this is a $466 million -- half a billion-dollar job. To put that in perspective, what y'all lived through when we did the interim improvement on 35 from 380 to 635, that was only about $1.4 billion. So we're putting a half a billion dollars' worth of improvements in this little area because we're building 35, and the E's and W merges to their ultimate configuration as opposed to an interim, which is what we did further to the south, and the ultimate configuration is you've got three lanes of traffic in each direction, two, three frontage roads, which means there's two frontage roads until you get to an exit ramp, then there's three lanes between the exit and the entrance, and then there's two to the intersection, and then four toll-managed lanes up to 380, and then we won't -- they won't be operational at this point, but we'll still build a pavement, and then we'll go to six lanes north of 380 with the two, three frontage roads all the way to 77. In this area, you know you have a problem on the merges between E and W and then trying to get to 380 where all that traffic stacks up on 35. There's a braided ramp there that will be built with this job. What a braided ramp is when you have an entrance ramp and an exit ramp in the same location, the entrance ramp goes up and down over the exit, so you'll exit, and then people will be getting on the freeway by going up over a broad bridge structure to get onto the freeway, and you always put the exit ramp at grade because that gets you to your retail quicker, right? There's no walls to impact it, so we'll have braided ramps in this area, which should go a long way to solve all the congestion problems. And then further south on 35E, we are reconstructing the Mayhill interchange, and you'll see that it looks like a long sword up to 288 because when we did the Luke 288 job, we did the southbound frontage road to Mayhill because of the brinker development, and now that when we're doing the Mayhill job, we're going to do the northbound frontage road all the way to 288, but it also has two additional unique components in that you'll have at 288, if you're familiar with that interchange, you have 10 lanes going underneath 35, you've got two through lanes, two lefts, and one U-turn, so that's a total of 10. 2499 has six lanes coming up, Mayhill will have six lanes ultimate coming south, so the Mayhill bridge will be 12 lanes, it'll be larger than the Luke 288 grade separation, so it'll have three through in each direction, two dual lefts, and then your Texas U-turns. When we built the brinker job, we punched brinker through and put a signal there and it ruined everything, you can't get through there, and so what we're doing is on the Mayhill job, both northbound and southbound, we are adding a frontage road, we're adding one of the frontage roads in each direction that will go up, match the grade of the main lanes and come back down, so if you want to go from Mayhill to Luke 288, you will no longer have to stop at brinker, you'll go up and back down and stop at Luke 288, as opposed to have to go to the brinker signal, and same thing coming southbound, if you're exiting to get to Mayhill, you have to exit just south of 288, you'll run the frontage road, two frontage roads will go down to the signal and one will go up, attach to the main lanes and then come drop back down, because if you notice where we built brinker was just offset to that creek, so it's a natural swell, and so it's really easy for us to just match the grade of 35 there with one of the frontage roads, so we'll have a bypass for lack of a better word, so those are two main things associated with Mayhill, and we're looking at, we're going to be ready in February, and we have to work on getting the date moved up from June of 2025 to February 24, which is doable because we're using category two funds, which are controlled locally. Thank you Madam Chair, and forgive me if you all have already looked at this, I don't remember seeing this in the presentation we had on with the Mayhill Bridge, you said three lanes are going to go through on each side for Mayhill, it's going to be total 12? At 35. Okay. So y'all are working on Mayhill as well to the north of there, you're bridging DCTA? Sure, so on Mayhill between Medical City and the Baylor, the quick trip, are we going to cut out some of that center median to add another lane to go through as well? I don't remember seeing that, you know what I'm talking about? I do know what you're talking about, I'm going to have to get Trevor to answer that question for you because I don't have all of the lanes, my understanding is yes, it's three lanes each direction. I can answer that. So within a certain distance away from 35, when TxDOT comes in and builds an interchange, it goes back a distance roughly around 600 feet, so for that 600 feet, we have to have all six lanes of Mayhill constructed because the signal and the intersection underneath the interstate won't work. So that'll be built with the state's job. Your job from the north coming across DCTA will get to Colorado and then there'll be some transition there at Colorado. But from Colorado to 35? Yeah, that's the part we're not talking about because I've got to find a way to sneak that in to the state's job without them knowing it. Okay, just kidding. We're going to get it fixed. We're going to fix it somehow. Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. With one of these jobs. Thank you. My bad. I remember I asked that similar question and he said, "Oh, we'll take care of that." We've got that. I've got to tell me what not to mention in public. We're going to get forgiveness. You're fine. We're going to get forgiveness. John knows he's going to help and make that happen. Make it happen. It'll be easy enough. Uh-oh. Okay. We know it's a problem, absolutely, and we're working to include it one way or the other. So now we go to the other 35W and what we're working on, and again what we can do is, depending upon what your desire to see beyond your scope, we are actually working on the frontage roads on 35W all the way south to Texas Motor Speedway. We have it broken up into three segments from 407 to 2449 and then 2449 to where our merged job stops and then from 407 down to basically Del Earnhardt. The total for all of this is about 600, 700 million. We have about 288 million for all of 35W already in the 10-year plan. But for whatever reason, the commission put it on the southern portion because they think you build things south to north. All of the development that's going on on 35W right now is in and around 407 up to 2449, Coal Ranch, Hunter, Merdod stuff, Harvest, all that stuff going on. So our priority is the middle section. Because basically once you get south of 1171, you can see there's a big creek there. There's no development there. North of 2449, nobody wants to touch that because you've got a big creek section and a railroad track. So we're all fighting to see who's the last person that has to build that section. But we're focused on this. We've got WSP doing the design. It's environmentally cleared. They're buying right away, and typically once the state buys the right away, they are committed to the project. So it's just a matter of we're going to have it ready to let by the end of this next year. When you see a let date that's four or five years out, 2028, that's just a number. The first four years, '23, '24, '25, '26, and so next year it'll be '27. Those first four years matter. Anything outside that four-year period is just a holding spot for the last six years of the 10-year plan. It doesn't move around all the time. So we've been told that this is a priority to the commission. And so we think that once we're ready to let in December, sometime next year, we'll be able to come back and tell you that we've got money for the frontage roads for this section. All right. This is the section. Can I -- excuse me, can I ask -- just clarify. So the only thing that we're doing at this point and we're concerned about at this point is just the frontage roads. Okay. Yes. So, you know, no toll road, no, you know, exchanges, just straight frontage road right now. So you want the short answer or the long, real answer? Short. Short. Yes. Okay. Got it. That's helpful. Yes. If I may as well, with your description based off of the arbitrary dates, we should then assume that the date will -- the let date will be moved up. Yes, sir. Okay. I think the commission might have a concern about the word arbitrary, but yes, they -- what they do is they have a 10-year plan and it's about $80 billion for that 10 years. And so the federal government requires each year to be financially constrained. So they stick it in a year, but that year has to balance to what they have for that year. But what happens by the time you get to 2028, all your priorities change and the projects that are in the list in '23 for '28 are never the projects that get built in '28. It's something different. It's just -- it's like a horse race. Every time we see an example like this as a new committee member, I should assume the date is actually going to be moved up, this kind of -- Yes, sir. You should. Otherwise, y'all should fire me. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Madam Chair. All right. So 380 -- we call it 377, 380 because it's a dual moniker, but -- John, I think you didn't answer Councilmember Byrd's question. She said she wanted a short answer. I just wanted a short answer. Okay. You're good? I'm good. I'm good. Okay. I'm sorry. I just wanted to make sure because I didn't see you shake your head that you were good. I'm good. Okay. I'm sorry, John. Go ahead. Straight to the point. Okay. 380. So it's under construction right now. White Oaks has the contract, and we are looking at a -- so this is the first time you've seen this. So whenever you have a project in your report that's actually under construction, what we do is we get the tech stock to provide us a monthly report that tells us what they're currently doing, right? And because I don't trust them, I want them to know what they were doing last month so that they're not still doing the same thing this month, and then what they're planning to do next month. And then we want to know what issues are impacting traffic, what are changes in traffic pattern, because you all need to know that in advance so you can let your residents know if anything impacting the project's completion. And so I skip the narratives, and I go straight to those last items. And we're basically working -- we're about 29 days behind on this job, so we're looking at trying to get this January 24 back into December of '23. And then if you'll look, Brandon Barnett is the tech stock project manager, so you don't have to hunt me down. If you got a question, they're trained, you can pick up the phone and call them and just tell them who you are and ask the question, and they'll answer it. >> We're going to get to it in a second, so I may -- you know, you may want to revisit it when we get to the 288 bypass in about three slides. But if we're finishing these curb cuts, median construction, sidewalks, how is the impact of that project of the bridge over Mingo to 288 going to impact this brand-new finishing development? >> Right. >> Because they're in the same location. >> So what we're doing here is an interim improvement. So we're adding -- we went from four lanes with a flush median to six lanes with a raised median, because the traffic on that project road section is high enough that where a flush median is significantly more dangerous because of the volume of traffic. So we have to do the grade separation -- I mean, the raised median, but we're adding additional lane in each direction while we do that. Further -- I don't know if we have that in the report, but further east of this project, just past where 377 goes north, we're adding another fifth and sixth lane, but we're also adding five grade separations at Navo, Till, Legacy, 720, and 423. So 380 east of 377 starts to be coming a super street or just a junior highway, right? There's still going to be some at-grade locations, but the majority of where the traffic impacts 380 will be grade separated. The ultimate intent for 380 is a freeway all the way to 288, which will be six lanes, 500-foot footprint and frontage roads, grade separations, so it'll be a bigger impact. We're already working -- the county is already working with TechStat on that, and we're primarily focused with Crossroads and Little Lamb because their commercial retail is right on 380, and when you widen from 150 feet to 500 feet, everything you see along that road is a historical marker. So we've got some time, and we're working with Crossroads to rebuild their commercial hub somewhere off of 380, same thing with Little Lamb, move it off 380 so that when we come through with a freeway and we take Walmart and we take all that stuff, they'll already have a commercial hub up and running because it's about 20 years out. 288 will be -- is actually acting as a freeway now by permit and agreement between Denton, Denton County, and TechStat, and it's been operating that way. That's why there's no development on that quadrant for the last 35 years. Well, we've gotten to a point now where 288, the city of Denton is growing so much that there's so much development that wants to hit 288. We have to get those frontage roads in because what you see out there are main lanes. They operate as main lanes, they're graded as main lanes, and they're posted at main lanes. So what we're doing on 288 is coming in and adding the frontage roads so that the development can front the frontage and not impact the main lanes. So since we have 380 coming ultimately as a freeway, the intent is to get them out of the core of Denton, get them to 35 as quickly as possible by 288 being a freeway. So we have to have a tie between 288 and 380 that's a freeway and not a signalized intersection like it is now. We can't do it anywhere near that location because of the design speed, we have to have a more gentle curve and that's what you see on that next slide that we'll get to when we get to 288 is we're doing that tie in ultimately to 380. But what we're doing now here is interim and it will all just be torn out from wherever 288 and 380 comes together east of there and then we'll figure out what we're going to do from 288 back to the loop that would probably turn into a local street of some sort. Okay, I appreciate that, thank you. Yes, one more question. Thank you Madam Chair. I was thinking of a question that I had at the tech stop meeting, I probably should have asked him this, but in the city of Denton a couple of those businesses on the east side, on university on the east side of 288, I'm thinking of I guess those businesses to the north side of university across from the Quick Trip, are all those businesses going to be impacted or are they mostly out of the way? So I think Quick Trip, I went to that page, so I think Quick Trip is somewhere in this area, Quick Trip and this is Mayhill. So you've got your racetrack here and your Quick Trip is somewhere here. On this location back west, we're going to leave that road as we're building it now, just a six lane, it's an arterial now, it'll stay an arterial because we'll take the freeway traffic up and around and this will be the freeway designation. And so anything between, I can't remember the name of the road, but we can get you the schematic, anything where 288 and 380 diverge back west will stay as a normal arterial with the normal access. Is that what you're asking? Not particularly asking for the businesses, but I'm asking for those few residents that live just north of the Quick Trip on the other side of university in that little cut out neighborhood there. How much more impact those folks are going to incur? Well, they should reduce their impact because all of the through traffic is going to be behind them going up to 288. And all they'll have to deal with on that spur, for lack of a better word, is what we call O&D traffic, origination and destination, people that are going there for a reason, not to pass through it. It's going to make them happy. I know we've regularly received emails from those folks in that little cut out neighborhood right there. And once we get this established, the other thing you'll be able to do is you'll be able to, right now, you've got truck traffic that turns and goes up out of Denton proper, but we'll be able to give them a more free movement to 35 and then we'll go back to 288 west. That'll then give them another freeway down to 380 to keep going west. John, I just wanted to add that Council Member McGee, during the, recently there was a loop 288 public hearing held at the high school where two different options were shown in this area with the connection between the loop and 380. And so they're collecting all the comments and all the feedback, and you can see right there the public meeting was held on the 27th. So they're working to collect all the comments and the feedback. Once they have a more aligned schematic route that shows what the impacts are and take into consideration all the feedback that's received, then they'll bring that to the city's attention. And John will be able to give you a more thorough review of every single property that would be impacted or not impacted along with the consultant who's working on this project. So at this point, as we've been mentioning, it's kind of a line on a map, a graphical representation, you know, but as they work through those designs, then they'll be able to show exactly what's impacted, what's not impacted, and, you know, some of those connections that John's talking about are near Cooper Creek Road, Giesling, some of those roadways to the east of that location, so there'll be more information. It's just in a very schematic, working, beginning to work through environmental clearance, so maybe explain that, John. >> Yeah, two things real quick is you see where we're saying environmental clearance by July 2025. The closer we get to that day, the more specific we know what we're going to clear because you have to clear it and you have to tell the public what impacts that particular road has. By the summer of next year, this schematic will be approved, and that schematic will then go through the environmental clearance process, and we'll be able to tell you exactly the impacts, what properties are taken, what properties are near misses, et cetera. And if you want to know the information, I think you get these reports to you electronically, you should, and if you do get them electronically, any time you see a blue link in the report, if you'll touch that link when you get it electronically, it'll take you straight to TechStop's webpage and show you everything that they presented at the public meeting so you don't have to go look for it. Touch the link, it'll take you there. >> Yes, John, to follow up on that, this report is in the Friday report on the week of the Mobility Committee, so Megan, make sure that we don't miss that out and put it in there. So you'll see it monthly, John's just going through the detailed information, but then you can use that as a resource, and we want to make sure all council has that further opportunity to use that. >> One last question, if I might. >> Okay. >> So we're going to need another bridge over the railroad, right? With the little spur, I guess not with the spur, with the new highway going up to our existing 288? >> If we impact the railroad, we are not going to be at grade, I can tell you that. I'm not sure exactly yet whether or not we are, but I don't think we are, because nobody's told us that there's a railroad issue yet, and we look for that first. >> So the railroad I believe you're referring to is on the south side of this connection, not on the north side of this connection, so if I'm thinking about it correctly based on some of the schematics I've seen, I don't believe there's an impact to the railroad. >> There's no railroad yet, we're not impacting any railroad. >> It's on the south side of Mingo Road, and the connection is on the north side of Mingo Road. >> So maybe there's a bit of a discrepancy, I'm not probably not saying it correctly, so we've got the highway going from 380 East that's going to jump up to 288. There's a railroad there, because the railroad jumps on the north side of University just before 288. >> Yeah, the railroad crosses, but it's on the south side, it goes right by Denton Bible every Sunday. >> I'm talking on the other side, on the east side of 288. >> Yeah, but it's the same railroad. >> It's the same railroad, but there's going to have to be a bridge there, right? >> It's on the south of 380. >> On the east side of 288. >> Okay, I'll have to go look at a map, because there's no railroad we're impacting on our job. >> 100% you are, there's a railroad that comes up Mingo Parallels, Mingo only goes up to Fish Trap. >> May I go up to the screen? >> Yes. >> You can go up to the screen. >> You got a map? I mean, this is just a pictorial, a base map. >> So, there's a railroad that goes like this, right? On the east side of 288, it jumps to the north side, the north side of University, correct? >> Yes, correct. You are correct. >> Is there going to be a bridge right here, wherever we impact, a new bridge? >> If there is a railroad in that area, and we are putting a freeway in that area, there will be a great separation. >> So, that's not going to be on us, right? >> None of that is on you. >> None of this project is us. >> Okay. >> But John is correct, whatever the impact is, it will not be an at-grade crossing from what they're currently looking at, it would be a bridge that would go over the railroad. So, you're talking about the railroad that's running on the south side of Mingo, and then makes the curve and goes in. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, I'm following you now. There's some residents up there and trailers and older homes, is that inside the city? The reason why I ask is because I was asking for those folks. It's kind of a rural area, and there are some trailers I was asking about. >> Are you asking about a spur of some sort on the railroad? >> No, I'm asking about the railroad, because if there's some residents up there and a bridge has to be constructed and that's inside the city of Denton, I was just curious what the impact is going to be for those folks, if we know this far in advance. We might not know, and I will accept I don't know yet. >> Yeah, so I think for those type of very specific questions, because it's just in a schematic phase at this point, and they're just looking at options, I don't know that they have that detailed of information complete at this time. What I would recommend is we bring that back when we get to future items, agenda items. You bring that up at that time, and you haven't done this before. So at the very end, when we go through the staff report, there'll be future agenda items. Why don't you bring that up, and at that time, then we'll be able to bring it back at the next meeting with more detailed information as to exactly >> It's okay, I don't know yet. >> I'm looking at an area, and where we're going, there's no train. I'm looking at it, it's right here, I mean they're >> We'll be able to bring >> It took us nine years. You know Fort Worth Drive, as you leave out south on 377 Fort Worth Drive? >> Yes, sir. >> That bridge took us nine years to get approval on. So if there's a railroad in my project, I'm aware of it. And I'm just saying, I'll go look, but there's not any impact to any bridge on what I see on my aerial. >> All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> So we'll figure it out. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you all. >> Okay. Yes, sir. Let's do that, and then we'll be able to get that clarified. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Absolutely. >> So this is where I, Bonnie Bray is part of, I'll go back up here. You see this, let me zoom. We just call out as a separate item for your report because you have a Bonnie Bray project. But you see this segment right here where all this Bonnie Bray tie-in occurs on the Luke 288? Where it ties into Luke 288, that project is included in 288. And so Westwood is environmentally clarifying that section as well, which is this report this section right here. We're just calling out as a separate item because you have Bonnie Bray in phases, and this is technically Bonnie Bray phase seven, segment seven. But we've included it, and it will be built by TechSight and COG, so it won't be paid for by the city. And then 1515 is your airport road. It's a six-lane. We're going from a two-lane rural to a six-lane divided. And we're on track for a ready to let of June of 2025. We had to do a little bit of changing because at the public meeting and public hearing, the people that made comments for some of these businesses were the local management. And when the corporate management heard what was going on, the corporate wanted to make some changes, so we went in and decided it would be easier just to accommodate. So I had to back up a little bit on the schematic and do a re-eval. That's where you see the re-eval. So that kind of pushed everything out a little bit, but we're buying right away, and we should be done this month. And it's a $34 million job, and we'll get it funded by the time we get it ready to let it. 1173, this is a realignment of FM 1173 based on the City of Denton's thoroughfare plan where we take out the Barthole Road. We are in the process of getting it cleared. It was cleared August of 2021. The county's doing the engineering on it. Half Associates is our consultant from the county's level. And we've been told to focus on the RATO acquisition mapping from 35 back past the rural tract because TXOT wants to build that as part of that bigger 35 job to get the interchange all set and ready to go. So it doesn't have any funding allocated yet, but we're figuring about half a third of the road will be built with the 35 job so the cost will come down at some point. And then we just got approval. We had kind of a miscommunication. The City of Crum initially told us to go to 156, and then a new council came in and said they weren't so sure, stop at the railroad track. So we were going to stop at the railroad track and they said hold on, wait a minute, we may want to rethink it. So we just got a letter back from City of Crum saying go ahead and go to 156. All that made us tweak our schematic that we had approved in 2020, which delayed our environment a little bit. It's cleared now, and we are expecting to have right away completed in August, which means then all we're doing is utility relocations, and we're going to focus on, again, the utilities on the east side of the job so we can build it with the 35 project. Can I ask a question on that? Is that going to be like a boulevard? It's arterial, six lane divided. Six lanes. Okay. There may be one where we do four lanes with a wide median, and then come back, but I think it already warrants six. And then the outer loop, I don't know how much detail you want to get into the outer loop. Can we hold off on the outer loop and go back to the loop 288? Did I miss that? I did, didn't I? Well, because we started talking about 380, and you went down there, so we wanted to meet that. Absolutely. Okay, here we go. Okay. So loop 288, when I first started working on this job, I was single and handsome. Now I've got three kids out of college. We had to move it because of multiple reasons, but it's taken us a long time to get where we're at. Short version is the current schematic was approved in 2020. Shortly thereafter, we got it environmentally cleared. You'll see that we're talking about almost three and a half years for acquiring a right of way. Typically, it only takes about 12 months. The reason why it takes that long is because in the utility relocation, you'll see it's a lot longer than normal, usually about nine to 12 months, and it's 18 to 20, is because all those white dots you see are those gas wells. And gas wells, when you deal with a gas well, it's both a utility and a right of way issue, right? So it complicates everything, and we're accommodating as best we can on this. It's $220 million for just frontage roads. This is going to be a freeway as well. So the right of way acquisition is beginning. They started about a year ago, and we are acquiring the right of way. We're acquiring the right of way for almost a 500 foot wide freeway, so it'll be main lanes, frontage roads, grade separations, but we're only going to build the frontage roads first because that's all that's warranted now, and that's $220 million all told. And we are expecting to be, because of the long run on right of way and the long run on utilities, are ready to let's not until April of 2026. I see questions. >> Any questions? Yes. >> Thank you, Chair. My question is on the environmental clearance, and this is just to educate me, do we do CRM work when we do environmental clearance? Is that part of it? I know a lot of core and other state and federal projects have to do mandatory CRM or cultural resource management, archeology. >> Oh, absolutely, tragically. So I mean, we got our projects that'll stop if we hit anything that even once the project's environmentally cleared, if we discover something that had one that we had a dinosaur duck, we had to stop the project to go do that. But if we've got it environmentally cleared, we've done cultural resources, we've got to go through the Texas Historical Commission on, because out here we still have a thing called intact farms, and intact farms are huge in their impact because they're intact and they're typically large, so you can't avoid them. And so the mitigation is significant. So whenever we have an environmental issue, whether it be cultural resources, whether it be flora or fauna, the federal guideline says you have to avoid first, and then if you can't avoid, you have to justify why you can't avoid, and then if you can't avoid, then you have to mitigate. And if we don't do a mitigation plan on all of those impacts, all those criteria, then we don't get cleared. And so a lot of times if we're going through a wetlands area and we're going to disturb, let's say 300 trees, we're required, state's required, whoever's doing the project's required to replace those trees in a seven to one ratio, right? And then you're responsible for maintenance of those trees for a certain period of time. So if we can't avoid, we mitigate, and we do all of those things. Well, I'll tell you, the reason I asked was crossing over Hickory Creek right there. It's my understanding, and maybe I'm misremembering the maps, that there was some archaeological digs and we're punching right through right there. They were, yes, and there were some Native Indian stuff that we were dealing with, yes. So what, I don't know if, if it's already been significantly disturbed before we get there, then the mitigation is less than if it was pristine prairie area that we're going through. And most of this area that we're going through has already been significantly disturbed by previous developments. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Go ahead. Madam Chair, can you say more about gas wells being both utility and right-of-way, please? Yes, sir. So they're not technically a utility as far as a franchise utility that the state recognizes, but the state also makes a lot of money off oil and gas, so they've got certain rights. So when we go in to acquire the right-of-way that impacts that gas well, it also impacts their transmission lines, right? And so when we're buying X number of square feet, we also have to go ahead straight into utility relocation costs, negotiations, because in order for us to get that right-of-way and for them to calculate the value of the right-of-way, it's based on the amount of gas or oil that goes through that transmission line, and so they have to do both at the same time. They have to calculate the value based on that particular transmission line, and then they've got to get that transmission line relocated out of the way. So it's a dual track. And one more, if I might, Madam Chair. As a new committee member, help me if I'm off base here. I haven't heard anything about other forms of transportation, like bike lanes or anything like that. Would that have been in these plans, or what? So these are in varying stages that are in very preliminary, so depending on the phase or the stage, TxDOT is working with us, and that's part of our review on every single one of these projects. After November 2021, TxDOT made a modification to start including sidewalks, side paths, those types of things in their projects. So when we get these projects for review at the different phases that they are, 30, 60, 90 percent, specifically 60, because that's plans adequate is what we call it, that's when we'll definitely take a deeper dive. But we're reviewing those things and their understanding, and we've submitted to them not only our mobility plan, which includes the TheraFair, the bike, and the pedestrian, different maps and different components, the multimodal components of the mobility plan, we're having those conversations. So they're very aware that we are a multimodal community, and anything we're doing from here on out is our expectation, and part of the collaboration that we're doing is to make sure that we have access for side paths, et cetera. I would tell you that specifically like this project you're looking at, I would anticipate there being more of a side path, because then it could be used for bicycle and ped, versus a dedicated bike lane on a roadway that's going to have probably a high speed, and a five foot sidewalk. So those are all things that we're working through when we receive the designs, but we're very vocal, and John can tell you we're always asking to make sure that they're multimodal in alignment. So to add just a little bit more clarity to that, what you're seeing on this report is your mobility report related to roadway infrastructure that's primarily state driven. You'll see other things come through the committee that are bike and ped specific to y'all's overall plan, so you'll see those as individual items. But on my report, my responsibility is to get these projects delivered in a timely manner without you having to spend much money, and those are the big infrastructure. But Becky is right. The federal government and the state build these roads now for all modes of transportation. So when we did 35 across, 35A across Lake Louisville, you'll notice that we put pedestrian facilities on both sides. It's required, but it's also good policy. So everything you see the state doing has some accommodation, whether it's 10 foot, five foot lanes, six foot lanes, whatever. They match it to the desires of the local community. So like on the 288 job, out to the green belt, City of Denton went and got a grant from COG for a 10 foot shared use path, and TxDOT put it in the job and is building it with the project. So all those types of modalities are included, regulatorily, but also good policy. Thank you very much. Yes, you got it. Outer loop. This is a controlled access facility that encumbers Denton County, Collin County, Rockwell County, Kaufman County, Ellis County, Johnson County, Tarrant County, and back up around to Denton County. So I don't know how many counties that was, seven, I think. And it's the, that's why they call it the outer loop. In our particular area, Collin County is already built because they're just building a road and they're calling it the outer loop. So they're setting the stake in the ground. Recently we opened up, I don't know if you can see it in this map, but we recently opened up the southbound frontage road to the Dallas North Toll Road, D&T, all the way to Tioga. So it's there now. And there is a location on the D&T that says outer loop in Collin County. That location is where we have to roughly start from an environmental clearance standpoint because you have to have logical termini for the feds. So we generally know we're going to start on the east, which is where Collin County leads it off. We have to cross the green belt at 428 based upon what the Corps of Engineers told us. And if we go anywhere off of that, it's literally an act of Congress to get across it because that is a conservatory, conservatorship, and it was, it was done in Congress. So in order to cross anywhere other than existing crossings, you have to go change Congress's law. So we're not going to do that. It's a bridge too far. So we got to cross at 428. So the city of Denton's thoroughfare says that it roughly needs to come in a mile and road. And so in the 35 job that I first showed you early on, in that 35 north project, it includes a box, a great, I mean a box, a great separated box where the outer loop will tie into 35. Now technically that's where the outer loop stops. And then 35 will be a dual designation to 35W, to 287, down to NS, and then 287 to 45. And then 45 up to Kauffman is, will be SH34, which will be the outer loop. And then it comes north through Rockwall, and it comes up through Collin County, you know, over there by Farmersville, kicks across and comes back over to us. So we are doing what's called an environmental impact statement, or EIS. So it's the highest level of environmental clearance that the feds require. And we're spending about $30 million, county is, to do environmental clear of this project. And we're anticipating being done by the summer of 26. Once it's cleared, we can protect the corridor from future development. Until then, we can't. So we're meeting regularly with all the stakeholders, cities, developers, Corps of Engineers, and making sure that if we see any impacts to our proposed three alternatives that we think we're going to carry through the process, that we try to mitigate that before it becomes too big of a problem. I think you had a question? We have a question. Can you just explain one of those last statements you made, protect the corridor from future development? So right now, if you had Jody Doak's developer want to go out on one of our proposed alignments and put 300 homes in a zone for residential, and they get an approved plat and all that stuff, they can go build 300 homes on one of our alignments. And now we either got to move 100 homes, which is an environmental disaster, or we got to go around it. But once it's environmentally cleared, the federal law says the jurisdictions that cleared it can now say you cannot build anything within that 500 feet. So the developer and the cities and the counties all have to honor that alignment, because the feds say that's the alignment for the road. But prior to the environmental clearance, it's up for grabs. Anybody can do whatever they want. And you said that clearance should be done next year? Summer of '26. And you're going, what the heck, that's a long time away. Right. But I could get it done faster if I could violate your property rights, not include you in the process, and not care about the environment. But if I got to do all those three things, we got a lot of check boxes to check, and it takes a long time to do it. We can not care about the environment to do environmental clearance? Right. All right. That's what they used to do. Oh. Okay. That's how Lake Dallas became Lake Louisville, was in the middle of the night. In February of '20 and '44, they just blew up the bridge after they built the other one. People woke up next morning and they had lakefront property. Interesting. Those were good old days. Do you have a question, or do you look like you have a burning question? I have a longstanding, he won't be able to solve it quandary, and that is just exactly what we're talking about, that the development pressures along the Sherman 428 corridor are really intense right now, not just with your projects on 428 and the outer loop, but everything else. Right. And those alignments are contentious and cantankerous sometimes. My problem is, we know it's coming through because Ray Roberts exists and Louisville exists. Right. So I know the precise alignment isn't there, but the problem I have for all elements, not just your office, the city offices, the state offices, whatever, planning and development or development services, I should say, is there still ongoing developmental pressure to go through that is tying your hands and then forcing impacts up and down the drainage from Clear Creek over to 35, I guess where I'm meandering to the comment of it feels like there should be a way of tapping the brakes so that the pieces can gel nicely, as opposed to I'm going to get my 1300 homes in as fast as possible so that then I force the brakes to go around me. So the problem with that is that especially in the state of Texas, this particular state has a strong property rights mantra. And so not only is it difficult, but back in the day when we tried to do the trans Texas corridors, right, where we're going to do the big mondo roads without any access because we just needed to move goods and services, the legislature said hell no. And they gave Texas residents what's called the Texas property bill of rights. So not only do they not have to listen to you, but they got the legislature and the governor's backing to do it. So the feds don't allow you to use a right of way as a determining factor for the environmental clearance, which you wouldn't want them to do that because then you could just go out and buy a piece of property and say that's the road, right, and then if it's environmentally insensitive, you've already bought the road so who cares. So it's an imperfect process, but it allows everybody to have their rights relatively protected. And as long as you have people that are willing to lean into the shovel sooner than later, we always get where we need to go. Well, I appreciate that. I mean, it was more of a frustrated comment than a question because it feels like we should be doing this smarter and not dropping neighborhoods where we know highways are going to go. We should have been doing it 10 years ago, but you couldn't get anybody. Look, COVID woke a lot of people up because pre-COVID, you had the rack stack and pack mentality to put everybody in Dallas and Fort Worth, down in Dallas County, and the way you keep that from spreading out is choking the perimeter counties. That's what the NPOs were doing. They were choking the perimeters, pushing you to the middle. COVID reversed that trend and everybody dispersed, and now we are literally behind the curve on all this infrastructure because people are moving to these counties. Denton County just surpassed one million a couple months ago, and so we're behind. And we could do what Collin County did and go out and buy the land to where we think the road can go, and then environmentally clear it, and we may or may not hit the mark, right? But that would take all these people's rights out of the conversation because we already own the land, which is kind of what Collin County does. But they're going to have to build that road on their own. This is a billion and a half, maybe $2 billion road. County shouldn't have to build that because it's a regional outer loop. So we're going to clear it so we can protect it from those development pressures, and we have entities in the corridor that are assisting the county in protecting the corridor that have money that if they see an area that potentially can develop that won't listen, they do listen to money. And so we can do a land banking. I appreciate that clarity. To Mayor Pro Tem's point, there might not be an answer to this question, but what prevents since our friends in the development community also know the timeline for this loop, what prevents them from trying to hurry up and get shovels in the ground and forcing this project to change and cost the regional partners more money? So when we get -- we stay very close to all of our stakeholders along the corridor the county does. And so the county is just paying the 30 million bucks. Our client for the county level is tech stock. We are doing this for the state. They just don't have the money or the time, so we're doing it. Our stakeholders are all the communities along that corridor, right, be they municipal or granularly residential, we have MAPOs, or meeting with effective property owners, because the county is doing it, we'll meet with Jody Doak's farm if they want to talk about it. So we will get in there and go in and talk to them. So the way we protect the corridor is we communicate to the developers that are moving what our timeline is, what our intents are, and that if they are looking to make -- generate revenue and they're not just a residential developer, right, the value of that corridor is going to be significantly higher as a freeway than it will be as a residential community. So a lot of the times we try to -- we educate them on the value, because you look at the $5 billion, $8 billion mile in Frisco, right, on the toll road, when I first started this business in June of '96, I met with George Porfoy, he was the city manager, and Frisco was at 5,500 people, right, now they've got billions of dollars of assets because they got the infrastructure. That's the same thing that's going to happen on the island. >> Okay. So it is to their advantage to wait. >> It's to their advantage to wait, and we're not talking about waiting too long, because once we're cleared in summer of '26, if they have land that we need and they need revenue, we can buy the land at that point. >> Okay. >> Legally. >> Thank you for that. I appreciate that explanation. It makes sense. So we've had multiple stakeholders' meetings. Anything you want to find out about the Outer Loop, again, there's a hot link there. And we are looking right now to set up a meeting with the City of Denton, TxDOT, and the county to talk about the tie-in of Milam Road. There's some issues that are coming up there that we need to make sure that we are all swinging on the same side of the plate, but we are constantly communicating to our stakeholders on that project. And here's where I stop talking. >> All righty. Thank you, John. >> Thank you. >> So Elman Locust currently, as you can tell from the report, they plan on having plans completed by the end of the year. So this is the portion south of the courthouse where all of the water and wastewater infrastructure and drainage infrastructure has already been completed. And so their anticipation is to have those plans completed by the end of the year. And they're planning to start a reconstruction of that roadway in the summer of 2024. So that will be Elm and Locust from Hickory South, and it will also include Eagle. On the portions that are north of the courthouse, you'll be seeing a upcoming ICA with the county to receive the additional funding come through council here in the next month or so. And that'll be at one of your upcoming council meetings. Trevor has that project moving forward through design. And we will be anticipating to start, of course, it has quite a bit of right-of-way acquisition that needs to be completed. And then we are looking and anticipating to start construction around the summer of 2024, fall of 2024 also. So lots of coordination going on with this entire corridor. The county's been very helpful with helping us with additional funding that was needed for Elm and Locust north of the courthouse. The overall roadway network, not including Eagle, but Elm and Locust from Eagle to US 380. I currently have a draft resolution that we're reviewing that Text-On has sent our way. And it's going through the process at Austin. And then it'll eventually go to the Transportation Commission once all of those things happen. So there's a three-step process, one, to get the resolution adopted by council. So you'll see that come through once we're all finalized with that. They have to map it, is what it's called, which basically means it's currently an on-system roadway. They will be taking it and turning it over to the city. So that's through a mapping process. And then also getting Austin's approval to submit it to the commission. And then the commission will approve. So we're in those steps, walking through with that. We met with Text-On last week on it and looking forward to getting this all completed. And the reason you want to take it off system after they fix it is because there's things you want to do down in Locust that the state won't let you do as a state facility. So it gives you flexibility once you take possession of it. One other little thing is you'll see the interlocal come through from the county. The county only provides the funding for whatever the foreseeable expenditures are. That way they limit how much they have to issue each time they issue. So if you get an interlocal that says the county's in for a penny, but we only give you -- or any for a pound, but only give you a penny, we're only paying for that first iteration. But the interlocal will be amendable so that all you have to do next time is just amend the dollar amount as opposed to the total description of the project. I get that question sometimes. >> Thank you, John. >> I have a really basic question. >> Sure. When this project is moving north and it's going through downtown, through the courthouse, I'm sorry, is it going to tear up all the roads just right around the courthouse at the same time or are we taking one side and working on the other side or is there not going to be anything? >> I'm going to take the privilege of letting Beck answer that. >> Thanks, John. So all of those things will happen through construction phasing. Trevor and his team will work through as they're working on the design, getting it from 90 to 100%, putting that in the specifications, talking about if there is specific construction phasing, then we will also receive a schedule from the contractor as to the way that they feel like they can do the project most expeditiously. But if there's anything particular that has to be done, for example, sometimes this waterline has to be done before this waterline can be done, those are the types of things we list in a set of specifications that go along with the plans. For the courthouse and around the courthouse specifically, we're meeting internally as we go through those design considerations with our water and wastewater departments, looking at alternate ways to take some of those facilities off, and I'm saying the direct corridor, so every single roadway that's on the perimeter of the courthouse, how can we service the facilities and then the courthouse itself with taking some of that infrastructure off and so to the roadways to the east and west of it, be Austin or Cedar. And so we're currently having those conversations as a part of design. The phasing of the project specifically will be something that we work through as we work to complete that. So we don't have that level of detailed information yet. We're working through right-of-way acquisition, getting this ICA completed to get the funding from the county that we need, and then working through those steps, but that'll be information that Trevor definitely can bring back as we work through the final design. And it'll be next year before we're really ready to have some of those conversations being that we're not gonna go to construction anticipated till late summer or early fall as our anticipation ending all right-of-way acquisition. And the right-of-way acquisition you're talking about is north from the courthouse on both Locust and Elm? Yes, sir. There will be right-of-way acquisition north of the courthouse on Elm and Locust and some of the properties in between those two that may be front Elm and Locust, so some of those properties in between. There's massive drainage improvements that need to be done in that area. Which bridges both, for example? A little bit south of DISD, there's some drainage improvements that need to be completed more north of the greenhouse area, can't remember the exact roadway cross-section, but Congress and north of that area. So those will be conversations that we have to have as we work to complete that drainage design for all of the box structures that need to be reconstructed in that area. This is an educational question, if we take it up, if it was taken off the books, does it lose its 377 designation or it just keeps it up? Yes. So 377 will be rerouted and there'll be dual designations. I think they're going to do 35 and up and around, and we also have, there was one other one that... It's 77. 77. So I was going to, because I know maybe Councilmember McGee, you don't necessarily, maybe have not heard all these things before, I want to make sure that I shared this information. So Dallas Drive is 77, and I know you've seen this in some of our presentations. And then Eagle Drive is turned into 77, 377 before you go south on Carroll. Next thought's goal with us taking on the roadway network from Eagle to 380 and making that become a city roadway, and I'll explain that in a minute why we're pushing for that, but it's to keep Dallas Drive, Eagle, and 77, all what they call on system, which means that's a roadway network that they'll continue to have the number designation and then the responsibility of the maintenance and operation. And then the Elm and Locust from 380 to Eagle is very important to the city because the majority of our infrastructure, water and wastewater infrastructure, and then of course the drainage conveyance is actually located underneath the roadway, which is very different from the projects we've been talking about earlier today, such as 35, where we actually acquire an easement to put our facilities in specifically. So anytime that we stay within a right of way that is textile, we have to have specific permission ultimately because it's their roadway, they own it, and we're putting our facilities underneath it. This has a long history. None of us really understand the reasons why it was done this way and don't have all of that information. It's just very important as we work through this, but one of the things I will tell you with the resolution is we will not be decreasing capacity. Part of the opportunity for us to take this roadway over is that we cannot decrease capacity, which means the number of lanes. We may look at additional ways to stripe this corridor to be able to provide for bicycle lanes, but the number of lanes will not decrease throughout the corridor. And I can give you a little bit of history. What happened back in the day, and we're talking in the '20s, when the state started really getting into a state system of farm to market roads and all that stuff, that they typically absorbed local streets that were already roadways that were already there, and then converted them to state facilities. And that was the case for the roads that ran in and around the courthouse. They were county roads that were absorbed into the state system, and part of that absorption gave them grandfathering of certain issues like utilities under the pavement. And now text that's going, every time we get our surface done, you have to come in and fix a utility and ruin our surface, so we just want you to take the road. And the city goes, we'll take it, but it's a sub-structure needs to be fixed, and that's what we've been working on. Right. So part of us taking it over and them reconstructing the south portion was very detailed and months of conversation to make sure they're reconstructing the roadway network to something that we can be comfortable with that actually meets our specifications and criteria. We didn't want to take something-- It literally will take longer for us to get that agreement than it will to build a road once it starts. Thanks John. So and John, real quick, before you finish up, I just wanted to share the reason why we have John come and make this presentation is kind of for multiple reasons, and I want to explain kind of the interactions. So this on-system report that you're seeing today is something that he produces for a meeting that Trevor, myself, John, folks from TxDOT, local area office, and also the Dallas district, there's multiple parties that are involved in those conversations and other departments throughout the city of Denton, Denton Municipal Electric, et cetera. It's very important that he's sharing this level of information so you can understand the roadway improvements that are being made. But these are all, for the most part, well they are all our TxDOT roadways, but for the most part, they're roadways that are going to impact our community. So from the city perspective, it's very important that we share this information because one, we're always looking at utilities we have to relocate because anytime they come through and widen a roadway, we're having to move to a new location for the most part. Number two, we have a lot of these green-filled areas or areas of which are not developed or we have constant development communities that are coming in, to your point, on Outer Loop or 428, area plans, et cetera. So from a development perspective, we actually have maps that we share with the design firms that are doing these different projects to be able to show them, hey, we've had this development come in, they're showing us something in this area, beware, get on the phone with them. We're not making contact with them, but we're bridging that gap to say, TxDOT or the county has a project, hey, you're coming into the city, there's a roadway that's going to be in that area. So we're bridging that gap and building that relationship between those folks so that they can understand. And then ultimately, all of these roadways are the major corridors that our residents use to get from point A to point B. So we want to make sure that we can educate and be fully educated on exactly what's happening with them. So there's a lot of things that happen. We're not responsible for constructing any of these roadways. We're simply responsible for the utility improvements or relocations that need to be made. And we're responsible for the communication with the development, and then keeping a close eye on making sure that they're meeting our mobility plan and the desires of the comprehensive plan, parks, trails, master plan, those documents that are for the city. So I wanted to kind of bridge that gap. That's very similar. Dune County is not responsible for any of these roads that are on these reports that you see, but almost all of them are being funded by the county through the advanced planning process. And we're carrying the water from a county standpoint because we want to control our own destiny. And by controlling your own destiny, you get access to funds sooner than other. So if you're in other counties, most counties aren't involved in state roads or foreign to markets. They just do the county roads and they move on. But Dune County knows that the infrastructure the state has is the backbone that moves stuff around. And so in the early 90s, the county decided they were going to get into the game and they've stayed in it from day one. And then their stakeholder partners are always the cities. In varying levels, I will mention that, you know, John can tell you that I was, I came to him and said, I need your help. I need the county's help. I need text dot's help, loop 288 from 380 to 35 on the northern portion they just had the public hearing on. At the time, we had eight developers that wanted to come in and develop and connect to that roadway. And it's a controlled access freeway. So we could not have a direct connect because obviously somebody going 60 miles per hour can't slow down fast enough to make a right hand turn without getting rear ended. It's a complete safety issue. And we don't allow direct connects to controlled access freeways. And the corridor had been preserved for 40 plus years. And so I went to John and I said, John, I need your assistance because what we're having to tell developers right now is the only way that we can make this happen is to have them build the frontage roads in order for them to have a frontage road connection to their driveway or whatever their purposes for their building, housing, whatever that then would connect to the loop. And so that's the reason why John and the county understood this was an improvement that needed to be made. They worked with the state and are starting to evaluate through the schematic phase and environmental clearance to build the frontage roads for that loop so that it also entices and assists with the development community being able to have something they could connect to which is a frontage road versus the controlled access freeway. So those are the types of things that are happening in various stages with all the different projects that are on this report. Thank you, Madam Chair, this is just a general knowledge question. So at the beginning of the presentation, I heard you say that the major roads if we have to move utilities is 100% reimbursable, correct? And it's the, like the Texas roads, US highway, US? On interstate highways, the federal government pays 100% reimbursement whether you're in a utility or not, the federal government does. But if you're anything below that, US highway, state highway, foreign to markets, the state will reimburse you and relocate you and compensate you for that relocation if you're in your own easements, which means you have property rights and the state has to move you just like they would a residential house, they'll compensate you for it. But if you're in their right away, right, in their accommodation zone, then they won't pay you to move because they're saying we need to evict you from our property and use it ourselves. And it's at your cost to move out of our apartment. So for example, along 35 will be 100% reimbursed for that, correct? Correct. The only time that we would pay for something, Council Member McGee, is if we decided instead of a 16-inch water line, we wanted it to be a 20-inch water line, which is considered a betterment, the city would be responsible for the difference in the size of the line. Okay. Betterment is not included. That's it. All right. Black for light. I guess I'm gonna assume you probably don't know if we're going to be doing that, but that's probably Stephen, but... Actually we're delivering those projects for Stephen and Trevor, that's his responsibility, so he can give you that information. Okay, and you can just give me a short answer, I'm just curious if we are going to be increasing capacity along... Yeah, we are in some cases, you've seen a couple of those I-35 projects come before y'all that are 100% reimbursable. There are, and I can get you the information, but there are some pieces in some of those properties where we were doing betterments, and so we were covering that cost, and then of course, Texas Eye does the reimbursable part. So we are looking at that, we're working with the stakeholders to determine if there are betterments that need to take place while we're doing that construction, and then making sure that happens during the construction. Okay. Yep. Thank you for knowing exactly where I was going, I appreciate that. She's always doing that to me too. But you know, as I was talking to constituents and feeling the complaints about so much construction going on and it's happening in the southern part of the city, it's always something going on in the southern part, and you know, and it's a good thing to know that the lines are being larger because everything's on the north side, it's coming up, and to be prepared for all of that. They're going to get what they ask for. Yeah. They're definitely going to do that. We're going to tear everything up up there too. Yeah, so that's good. Is there anything else? I was just going to real quick, this is a glossary of terms, transportation has its own language, so we use a lot of acronyms. We put those acronyms in this glossary, and we're always adding to it, so if I say something you don't understand, ask me about it, and it'll eventually make it to the glossary. And then you heard me talking about categories of funding. The state of Texas, when they get the federal government money, it comes in and they put it in these categories. The primary categories that you're going to hear us talk about on my stuff is your category two, metro urban area projects, and what you're going to hear that called is federal dollars, Cat 2 federal dollars locally controlled, so your metropolitan planning organization controls the selection of projects for category two. When the county contributes money to a project, city contributes money to a project, it goes into category three, which is basically, they should just say that local funds, right? Category four, statewide connectivity, category four means that 35 is eligible for category four, 380 is eligible for category four, but Luke 288 is not, because it doesn't leave the region, 635 wouldn't be eligible, because it doesn't leave the region, but 30, 20, 287, any of these roads that leave the region heading to another region, that's your statewide connectivity and is eligible. And then because we're in non-attainment, we also get a category five, which is called congestion mitigation air quality funds, and you can do bicycle lanes, pedestrian facilities, safety improvements, intersection improvements, signalization, the only thing you can't use category five for is to add capacity to the road, right? So you can't add a lane, you can, there are time to signals, you can put a sidewalk, something like that, but it has to be that type, not capacity. And then you go to category seven, this is sometimes, this is an old designation, but they still keep it in the state's name as Metro Mobility, but it used to be called surface transportation Metro Mobility, and there was a metro, an urban, and a rural mobility. The feds got away with all of that and just said surface transportation block grants. So category seven, sometimes you'll hear it called STBG, because that's the federal designation, but those are dollars that are also selected by your MPO, category two, five, and seven are selected by COG down in Arlington. And then category 11 is your district engineer's discretionary account. So the district engineer gets a certain amount of money to do things at our discretion. Category 12, they call it strategic priority, but you're going to hear it called commission discretion, and it means that the five members of the commission pick the project. And 2014, there was $3 billion in category 12 strategic priority commission discretion. In this current UTP, there's 20 billion. And so the governor and the commission are getting into the politics of picking winners and losers, and so they're taking, of that 100 billion I was talking about, 20 of it is selected by the governor and the chairman of the commission, so 20% is covered by that. So there's a conversation we always have to have about category 12, but those categories matter and that's why we give you the list of those categories so you can know what they are. And that's now I'm done. All right, you have one more question. When more of these projects come to us, is there a way that you can put in the report that the, I understand it's going to say like a certain amount of money is reimbursable, but the extra money is being spent for betterment, just so we know the difference. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Yeah, that's not an issue. I mean, we definitely can do that. Like you know what I mean? I understand you say it's reimbursable, but I didn't pick up on that we're doing this for betterment, like improvements. For sure. No, I think that's easy to fix. Okay. Absolutely. Hey, can just, are roundabouts covered in category five? Don't answer that question. I'm done. Roundabouts. Textile is actually moving towards roundabouts at the last, I'm not, I'm not a big advocate for broad use, but there are specific uses where it can, and y'all have done them some good places. But at the short course, you had the deputy, two deputy executive directors doing a Q and a where they'd hold up their answers to see how well they think alike. And the question was, what is the most underutilized traffic device that you think the state ought to look further into? And they both held up traffic circles. So there may be a paradigm shift. Now you're going to have a hard time fighting the council governments because they're, they're not a big fan and they control the categories that the state doesn't control cog controls. But hey, don't ruin yourself, right? 30 years, 30, 40 years, who knows. Thank you so much. We appreciate your, appreciate you every time. Every time. Every time. Okay, we're going to move on to DMC two three dash zero three one. Alrighty. Thank you very much chair. So today I have a couple of different updates on the staff memorandum to bring forward to you. The first question that was asked as a part of our agenda last month was to give an update on Oakland street towards a locus street. So I just will go through this a little bit. Oakland street from withers to locus was approved as a part of the 2019 bond program. There is currently a need for enhanced drainage infrastructure in this area due to the inadequate capacity. I know you've all seen that in previous presentations. We have developed the project to include that as a part of the upcoming 2023 bond election that would address those drainage concerns. Once those drainage infrastructure is completed, if the bond so passes, then we would be able to complete that roadway in that area. And we would begin design in 2024, being that the election, if it so passes as in November of 2023. The next item that was brought forward was Spencer road between loop 288 and Mayhill. We had our development services transportation planning team put together an exhibit. I'm going to walk through this kind of step by step and then I'll show you the graphic. So Spencer road currently on our mobility plan is considered a secondary arterial, which is 110 feet of right away, four lanes of travel, and we have a large development in that area, which is Elon gray star, and they're located on the south side of Spencer, pretty close to Mayhill. So they have several different phased improvements, and she mentions approximately 460 feet east of the intersection of Spencer in the loop to approximately 500 feet west of Spencer and Mayhill. And they have those four phases, as I mentioned, each phase is related to Spencer road. And there is a traffic impact analysis that describes which improvements need to be made based on each phase. So I'll start with phase two a. That's currently under construction, and they are responsible for pavement widening and construction of an eastbound right turn lane at North star road. And I'll go to the exhibit in just one minute so we can go through those phase to be received a notice to proceed for construction in February of 2023. And it's responsible for pavement widening and restriping to a three lanes section east of North star along the property frontage of phase one, which is that existing multifamily which is the furthest east connection, phase three is still in the development review process and has not received that notice to proceed. This will include pavement reconstruction of existing asphalt and restriping a three lane section west of North star road. I'm going to of course that will be pending all of the development review comments going through that process. Phase four has not yet entered the development review process but also will not impact Spencer road directly. And then there's a retail phase which has not entered the development review process, but will be responsible for pavement reconstruction and widening and restriping of the three lane section. I do want to mention that all of these improvements are being made by the development due to their traffic impact analysis or requirements as a part of their overall development. We currently do not have a capital improvement project to make any modifications to Spencer road between the loop and Mayhill. And also, as I mentioned, it is shown on our mobility plan as a secondary arterial. So I'm going to zoom in a little bit if I can and kind of start specifically. So this is the loop 288, so this phase retail shows that Spencer road is existing and the asphalt pavement would be replaced and widened to restripe and that's when that phase comes through the development process. And then as we move east, phase three, Spencer road is existing asphalt pavement, it will have to be replaced and restriped. Two A is requiring this eastbound right turn lane to be constructed. Two B is requiring an eastbound lane of pavement and restriping for transition. And then you can of course see Mayhill road. So all of these improvements in this area will be made directly as a result of that Elon gray star development. I had this question and I wouldn't ask it because I said they probably already know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Why would phase three and phase retail not be together? It just depends on the way that the developer chooses to develop, we don't make those determinations as far as what they feel like is necessary or not necessary. As they come through the development process, although phase three may make sense to actually construct it as a part of the retail as a part of phase three, just because you're already out there and it's a very short stretch, I guess that's where you're going. Less burden on people traversing the area. Sure. Those determinations are made through the development review process because we're not aware of when they actually will begin the construction of the retail and what triggers the reconstruction is the retail. So each one of these phases are going through with the set of plans that are approved by the development review process. So if they were to submit retail and it get approved through the development review process in a similar timeframe as phase three, of course, I assume that they would make those construction in a very similar timeframe, but currently that's not the case. They've separated them into sections. Okay. That's the requirements. I didn't know if we had required them to do it or they did that on their own. So I appreciate the clarification. Yes, sir. That's all them. It could be money or something, maybe. I don't have the answer for that. All righty, so we'll move on. Trevor, would you like to do Westgate Windsor? Sure. All righty. All right, so the Westgate Windsor project is planned to widen Westgate Drive from Windsor Drive to Bronco Way. This includes installation of drainage as well as pedestrian facilities. We'll also widen Windsor to complete a consistent street width. And then, so we're currently working towards 60%. We have the 30% schematics and the design firm is working to get those to the 60%. Bonnebrae Phase 6 will widen Bonnebrae from 380 to 77. This includes utilities, drainage, pedestrian improvements, traffic lights. The project is in the final stage of design and textile approval and is tentatively scheduled for bidding award in quarter four of this year with construction starting early quarter one of next year. Fire Station 5, of course, was included in the 2023 bond election. So it's going to citizen vote in November. And then we'll be working with the fire department and once the project is approved, we'll work into the design phase and determining how we want to bid those out. We've talked about maybe packaging those together, Fire Station 5 and 6, and moving forward with one CMAR. But we'll have those conversations once it's approved by council, I mean by the voters. Any questions on Westgate, Windsor, Drive? Looking good. All right. Thanks. Thank you, Trevor. All righty. So the next question that came up was downtown parking. So we included a very long ISR that was from 2018, November of 2018, which was an overview of the project history. So question came up about the back end parking along Hickory Street. It was a part of the overall Grand Street capital project. It spanned from the A train to Locust. It included new pavement improvement. There was sidewalk widening, implementation of the ADA ramps, landscaping, parking configuration, pedestrian lighting, power supply included for future growth. And there was also, and we don't say it here, but I know because I designed it, water and wastewater improvements along that entire corridor that were reconstructed during this project. So wanted to be able to share with you the information on the downtown parking and really kind of that overall project history. There were several studies that were conducted. Obviously it's one way to design a roadway. We see lots of folks that don't adhere to the back end parking in this area. But definitely just an update. So I'd encourage you to read the ISR, see if there's any, if you haven't already, see if there's any additional information or questions that you have. But that was a particular capital project back in 2018. We have a question. In the backup, that just seemed like it was the old 2018 ISR, there was no, no 2023 information in there. Is that correct? That's correct. We don't have any updated information. I mean, it's facilitating and functioning as designed. We make striping or improvements to sidewalk maintenance. It's more on a maintenance operations standpoint at this time. So there's not really anything additional to add unless you have a particular question. We're happy to look into our research. But the project being just that it was designed and constructed in 2018, it's very new. And so it's still is functioning as designed. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. I have a question about that. Are there, is there any kind of data being kept up with whether or not people are actually conforming or we just eyeballing it and seeing that there are more people that are not conforming to that back in, backing in project? Are we even concerned about it? Is there a reason, what, what are we, what are we thinking? As far as the back end parking, definitely it is a trained behavior to make sure that folks understand what the purpose of the back end parking is. That when someone is trying to come in and back in, obviously they live enough space so that you can actually make the maneuver to get back in. As you've driven that quarter, you've seen folks are getting right close up to the car behind them. And they're like, you need to back up so I can back in. And so, you know, that happens to I'm sure to all of us. We're currently not collecting any data or keeping any information on that. It obviously turns into an enforcement issue and it's something that our PD is not currently enforcing to the level of ticketing, et cetera, in that area. If that's something that we would, you would like for us to look into, we can definitely have that conversation with PD. But in the magnitude of importance for the things that the police department is working on that's just not super high on the priority list. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. So to wrap up on that, do we have any or this might be a thing for the future matrix. So sure, you can point that out if we need it. But do we have accident statistics from 2018 to 2023 so that we can do the comparator and say, hey, this is this is the goal. And are we achieving a reduction in, you know, public safety events by having this or not? And if it's, you know, yes, then yay, keep on keeping on. And if it's no or indeterminate, then that at least opens up the I actually like the back end parking. So I'm just going to preface it that way. But we need everybody else I know hates it. But the you know, you like it. But my question is more, is it achieving the goal and do we have data on that from public safety or engineering or development services or whoever would have that data? So that's definitely data that we can get our hands on. Happy to add that to a future agenda item. And we work with PD very closely to find out that type of information. And so we could pull records for that cross section of roadway from address to address and see what types of accidents and then we could bring that back to you next month and report on that. Appreciate that. Thank you. Absolutely. We have new new residents. You know, they come through, they don't understand process. You have any other questions? Okay. All right. All righty. So then the last item before we get to the future agenda items was the citywide and downtown parking study. So there's lots of conversations and questions that come in constantly about parking throughout the city. No parking signs, you know, they run the gamut. So we're in the process of updating the downtown master plan and identifying, I'm sorry, in the process of updating the downtown master plan, it identified, of course, the critical component of the parking. So there's a request for proposal that was completed and you've seen that come through for the downtown parking. It'll help provide insight to traffic patterns, number of parking spaces, times of day people are using demographic of the users and how it's being utilized. It's also going to assess the need for those additional and alternative parking facilities. And then we're also working through a citywide parking study, which is going to be completed in conjunction with that downtown parking study, but we'll be making overall recommendations regarding current parking policies, enforcement practices, planning, engineering, standing, loading zones. That downtown parking study was kicked off on the 15th and the citywide speed study is currently going through the process with the solicitation review committee. The proposal is so that we can get that out on the street and receive proposals on that citywide parking study. So we're currently in the process. Of course, that will come through council once we receive all of the proposals and do that overall evaluation of the proposal to select a company to move forward with, affirm. That's always very exciting to hear about parking. Yes. So I appreciate that we've broken it down into phases with the downtown and the citywide and I really applaud that because that phasing allows us to get some preliminary results in our commercial core. Do we have an ETA for, and the reason I asked this question is it sounded like from the narrative and the backup that we were doing them in conjunction and coming up with recommendations in conjunction, and that means that we're waiting sort of on the citywide or it implies to me we're waiting on the citywide before we make recommendations and I'd be interested in hearing preliminary recommendations from the phase one downtown parking plan as early as possible because I think that's going to influence if we see early success stories or early modalities that, okay, this is clearly, we've got to pilot this now. I would be really interested in not moving downstream time wise, but trying that pilot early. Sure. Let me explain what in conjunction means in my terminology or what I would think would help with the conversation. So the downtown parking study is not slowing down. It's already had the kickoff meeting and they're already working through the process. What we mean by in conjunction is whatever information results, questions that are asked, data that's collected that might be useful in using for the citywide. This is just one subset of what needs to be done citywide, right? The downtown is just one subset. We have universities, we have lots of areas where parking comes up. Residential streets, residential streets close to universities. We have a number of items we're going to be covering. No parking, loading zones, et cetera, through the overall parking study. So if you think about the big picture is the citywide parking study in totality, the downtown is just one subset where we're looking to see what type of information we receive and are there some best practices or some things that need to happen that can then be facilitated through the overall citywide speed study. So that's what in conjunction means. Downtown is not necessarily slowing down to make sure because we're probably six months out and getting that contract and citywide speed study just through the procurement process with the proposals, et cetera. All right. No, I'm very interested in getting things off the ground. So yeah, thank you. Absolutely. All righty. So then the last thing that we'll move to is future agenda items. So you can see for item number one, we brought you back the update. So we're requesting to remove the Oakland Street towards Locust Street. Item number two, Spencer Road between loop 280 Mayhill. We brought that back to you. West Gate Windsor, Bonnyberry Fire Station, Trevor reported on that. Downtown back-end parking and citywide parking study. I think on downtown parking, instead of removing that, I'm gonna leave that on there if that's good with you to make sure we can bring back those accidents and any data or anything we're learning since it's been in operation. And so we will leave that on there to bring that data back to you and report on. Mingo Roodell, we're asking to remove that because we just gave you a council update on Mingo and Roodell and that's a part of the bond. So we felt like we'd addressed it through that. So all of those except for, let's see, a number, well, our numbers are off. We'll have to fix that. All of those except for downtown back-end parking, we're requesting to remove as a future agenda item. Are there any concerns with those? - The first one, two, three, four. - So we're removing Oakland Street, Spencer Road, West Gate Windsor, citywide and downtown parking study, and then the bond. I think on the citywide and downtown parking study, we might wanna leave that also on there or at least Megan can help us make sure that that's on a future meeting when there's something that is important to report with the information that you receive on the downtown. But I think it's apparent that we could remove it now just when there's data that can be shared on the downtown to share that with you, if that's good with you. - I think that's great. - Okay. And then mapping for sidewalk, bicycle, corridor, we're currently in the process of GIS mapping all of that. So when we're ready to share that and we're definitely gonna bring that back, Trevor gave a Bonnie Bray update for phase six and then Bonnie Bray phase three, you saw recently at council that you approved the contract on that. So if there's updates on that, we'll bring those back next month. Hickory Creek road phase three update. We didn't bring you anything forward today, but happy to always bring that back to you. It's still under construction and everything seems to be going well. No delays that we're aware of at this point. Ryan road, we've mentioned we'll bring that back to you once we're fairly far with construction being close to completion of Hickory Creek phase three. And then we're still in a waiting of textile responses on the citywide speed study. So we just left that on the matrix until we have that information. So I'm updating downtown parking to make sure we collect the accident data. We'll add citywide and downtown parking study. So that as soon as something's available, we'll just leave it on the matrix so we can bring it forward. I understood that on 35, you'd like for us to bring an update date to you on what is better meant versus what is reimbursable. So we'll be bringing that back as a future agenda item. And then three, I'm sorry, go ahead. Perhaps you don't have to do it here. Just when it comes to council for us to approve stuff, you can just put something maybe in the backup there. Well, you've already approved all of it. You've already approved all of it. It's all under construction. So you won't be seeing anything unless there's a massive change order. You've already, it's already been all approved and you approved the last contract the last month. So we're happy to bring an update to you to tell you the difference between that if you like. I hate the ways the committee's talking about stuff we've already approved. So no. Okay. Well, then we can make that off the list. And then I do, I did also add the 380 loop 28 schematic. Once they have information that's good enough to share, I was going to show John before you walked out the door that mingo road continues and they will have a railroad crossing. So I'll make sure that I show that information. But if they feel like they have enough information that they could come back at the next meeting and show you more of a schematic in that area and report on similar things that showed in the public hearing. It just depends on where they are on their comment phase. If not, we can add it to the agenda to if not bring back next month as soon as is available and they have that detailed information that area that I was talking about with some of the homes that is city of Denton, correct? I'm going to have you show me on the map. I have it up on my computer before you walk out the door to make sure that I'm looking at the same area that you are. That is my, that is my understanding. So we're going to, we're going to show the city limit sign and you will, you and I will get savvy with what's in the city of Denton and make sure we're all on the same page from that map. Thank you, ma'am. Yes, sir. So I'll just follow up on that one. I mean, I brought this up with Tina and Karina and I don't know if I talked with any, maybe I talked to Trevor at the last, but there's the cemetery right there behind the church and it turns out there's cemetery on both sides of the church, whether they were allowed to do that or not. It doesn't matter. There's bodies in the ground. It's the cemetery now. So I don't know if that distance to the proposed alignment is, is now too short for the overpass that John didn't realize what we were talking about, but there's, there's, I mean, you got to have a bridge over Mingo. You got to have a bridge over the railroad tracks. There's a creek right there. You're going to have to have a bridge. So how are that six or 12 lanes is going to go majority of it have to be a skyway of some sort. The majority of it's elevated. So and, but my question on that follow up of this one point is when we bring back this alignment, could, could we address some of these particulars that were concerning like the cemeteries and things like that? Sure. And I understand. And the reason why I'm saying I'm not sure if for next month. I understand that they had the public hearing, they had an overall review and comment phase and they're working to address all of those comments. We meet with them monthly. So what I will find out from them is if they've had the opportunity to receive all the comments, address all the comments, and if they feel comfortable with coming in and discussing those or if they need in a little extra time, we'll either bring it back in September or October when they have that information available and have them kind of do an overview of the project and specifically hone in on that 388 I'm sorry, 380 Luke 288 connection area. Perfect. And if I might share, I just have two other items I'd like to consider adding to the matrix. Sure. I'd like to at some point sooner rather than later, doesn't have to be urgent, but sooner because I think it impacts future development is can we get a brief description on what our model assumptions are for our traffic models? Because this came up and I'll give you the context so it's clear what I'm asking for. When we did the bell and potential roundabout description recently and when we did, we talked about traffic on Carol recently, we had certain model assumptions of growth of traffic growth five, five percent annually or something like that. Don't quote me that that may be wrong, but there was a linear growth traffic model assumption like that means, you know, OK, you're going to expand all the the collectors to arterials and arterials to primaries and primaries to highways. And it's we all know you can't do that because you'd end up having to have right away to destroy courthouses and things like that that are not going to happen. So then I would like to hear a little bit about what our model assumptions are as we continue to have growth and and how those are being used, because I'm going to keep bringing up the Bell, Locust, Eagle, Dallas roundabout, and I'm going to keep bringing that up because I sensed interest in it. And the reason it failed and other things failed was traffic model assumptions. And so, A, I would like to hear the traffic model assumptions and B, I'm going to touch that third rail because I'm quite comfortable touching that third rail, that roundabout. And because I think that that has particular implications for our development style and pattern and it depends on those traffic model assumptions as to why we didn't like it and why we didn't have additional plans. So those are the sort of two phases of things I'd like to see on the mobility image. OK, so I'm going to have to think about how it's best to bring back that information because in the mobility plan, traffic model assumptions were made in order to classify what roadways and that's an update that happens typically every five years. When you're looking at an isolated corridor such as the Bell, Eagle, Carroll corridor, traffic assumptions were made based on growth patterns using the comprehensive plan. So I'm going to have to think about what's the best way to bring that information back to you because in many cases it's an isolated situation. It may be best for us to do it from an education perspective on what's currently written in our transportation criteria manual and what are the design assumptions that we're requiring folks to do as they develop through the community. So let me think about what's the best way to bring that back because there's a lot of moving parts with that type of a conversation. I appreciate that and I will ask just as a follow up real briefly because I know we're four minutes over, thank you Chair, and that is can we have the general education, I mean obviously specific examples are illustrative, but in general I would like to know the general traffic model assumptions as well. OK, yeah so let me think about what's the best way and I'm not going to promise to come back for the next month but I understand your concern. Some future meetings. We will figure that out. Absolutely. All righty, anything else? Just one more thing for me and this has been bothering me for at least 15 to 20 years. Probably could have had something done by now but it's a state of Texas issue. OK. So John, probably could have asked him at the time, but between Carroll Boulevard and Loop 288 on 380, there's literally just no lighting. I remember being frustrated by seeing all the trees, you know, come up and watering and all the beautification, but there's not any lighting, especially around the Texas Women's University area, so I need for somebody to say something to me about that. So we recently put that information in a Friday report, so I'm happy to share that information back with you. That was a question that was asked and so there is a project that was a part of the 2019 to do bond program to do lighting along 380 and so that will be the project that will address that, so happy to bring forward any additional information. No, I'll just read my Friday report. OK. So I have to do. Come on. OK. Oh, I was probably asleep. Yeah, I was probably asleep. Yeah. All righty. I was probably asleep on that one. Well, you were out during that week, so I'm not sure that you were reading Friday reports and you were taking care of yourself. That's right. All right. Is there anything else? Any concluding items from anyone? Are we OK? All right. All right. Well, then we will conclude the meeting at 1007. Thank you very much.