Jun 27, 2018 Planning and Zoning Commission on 2018-06-27 6:00 PM

Denton Planning and Zoning Commission work session for June 27th 2018. This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum present and I will call us to order at this time. Our first order of business will be to receive clarification of agenda items and I think we don't have anything on minutes so that will move us straight on to public hearings and I think Cindy Jackson you'll come up I think there may be some conversation about whether this will continue or not and I think Richard asked if you would go ahead and make your presentation on this item if you would like. Well I think we're kind of bouncing back and forth I hate to put you on the spot. Are you still able to do that? I will give it my best it's only halfway prepared. What happened is the applicant has requested to postpone to the next PNC meeting which is July 11th or 7th. 7th or 11th I can't remember. It's the 11th and so I did not complete my presentation because I thought I wouldn't be making one. Well as much experience as you have I bet half preparation will be superior. So well let's give it a go here. And you got some long timers here so we will hopefully make it easy on you too. Oh I know why that's not my login. I think they're coming right now to regroup and turn the projector on and scramble and... Why isn't it letting me log in? I switched user. Well while y'all are preparing as chair and most members I know fellow commissioners usually are pretty well prepared. I'm sure everybody's reviewed the backup material are there any questions that we could at least get started while we're waiting for things to boot up that are particular interest? Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. The only thing I have is what I brought up a while ago is the existing zoning situation right now and how we might want to take a look at that in the future because I believe the mobility plan shows Sherman is going to be expanded eventually. So anyway but I know that doesn't deal directly with this. More of a global issue rather than specific to this one. Okay. The thing that crossed my mind is we probably wouldn't even be considering an overlay on this if that in our forward zoning wasn't there. So anyway for what that's worth. Okay. Any questions? Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair. We last time we approved the neighborhood north of Louisville 288, I think west of here. There's issue about fire access and the routes fire would take and on the north side not all the stations have an ambulance and so I was just curious about the city's look at adding so many houses to make sure that the current fire infrastructure there is an ambulance and response appropriate to the number of houses going up north. That was looked at actually during annexation and the fire department did say they do have a fire station that is close enough by that they can maintain the standard response times that you see all over the city. Okay. They 've just rebuilt the new one right there and I think you're right I think it was a smaller station that enlarged it now. Okay. Commissioner are you ready to go Cindy? Yeah well I'll answer a question. Commissioner Ellis I recognize you. We'll see where you go. Thank you chair. You know my questions revolved around the proportionality study that was mentioned a couple times about the road improvement that's due. Who prepares that? When does the developer know what their proportion is? During platting and it's actually prepared by the engineering department. They have specific formulas that are based on the number of houses in the development, the number of trips anticipated, the type of roads that are involved and you kind of combine all that together with they've got formulas and that gives them their proportionality. And it's time of platting you said? Pardon me? Don't know time of platting? That's correct. Okay. Commissioner Sanchez. It talks about that when it was brought that property was brought in it was brought under RD 5X as a placeholder but yet then it goes on to saying it's it's subject to all this all the restrictions. As a place holder... Yes it is. And okay so it gets brought in there but that doesn't necessarily mean when it gets at a place holding position that it's going to influence what future zoning will occur does it? Well the placeholder doesn't influence future zoning. The placeholder is just as it is. Theoretically they're zoned RD 5X however in reality they don't have a zoning designation that's just a placeholder. If the applicant wants to develop without going through a zoning all they can do is what is a permitted in the RD 5 district . Okay because one of the things that I noticed is it refers back to that that it doesn't meet you know it's the new to zoning is does not meet that RD 5 or talks about RD 5. It doesn't meet the rural areas land use designation. You 've got your land use designation which just it sets the goals and policies for the city has for that area at the time the future land use plan was written and then you've got your placeholder zoning which is a totally different item which tells them exactly what people can do on the property at that certain time. You look at the future land use map as a roadmap for zoning and land use and each designation of the future land use map indicates a range of zoning districts that are expect anticipated to be put in that area. So for example you've got your low density low density residential that is expected to be like NR 1 NR 2 NR 3. You've got moderate density which you would see NR 6 NR 4 and then you've got and NR 12 and then you've got high density which is NRMU. All right but as the city is expanding those those rural areas especially at the edge of the city I have you have to be concerned at a much higher density than what you're and what you're looking at here. Exactly exactly when when the future land use was created a few years ago we still had area at large tracks of land within the loop within the loop to develop. Those those are filling up rapidly and we're seeing developers now move outside the loop and when the the Denton plan was conceived how many years ago now three years ago they didn 't anticipate that it would move so quickly the development would move so quickly so we're gonna have to take a look at that again. I'll follow up on Commissioner Sanchez point with with the rezone that's currently being discussed what is that area being considered now by the city? We haven't got to that point yet. Okay. We and from what we've seen we have we have seen an awful lot of interest from residential developers for this area an awful lot in fact I've received another zoning application we received another zoning application that I was assigned to this week we're just up the street for residential so it's getting ready to just explode up there. So that that is going to be looked at then with the new rezoning that's coming in the well I don't know I haven't really looked at the map that closely yet. Yes and no and I say it only if if they are going through a rezoning what we've done now is sort of it's not like we want anybody to hedge their bet on anything so we're sort of blacking them out for now um however if they have if they've just gone through a rez oning and it and that it has gotten approved we're not looking to change that as part of the the rezoning to something then that would be inconsistent with they would have just gotten approved you know six months prior. Well I agree with that and I appreciate the additional information I get I guess from from my point of view is we all understand that things are changing yes we're aware that they're changing and that area is probably not going to be in our one we've probably passed the point that that's in our one and our two is appropriate type zoning and so the only reason that I bring it up is for consideration that we look at it with an open mind that that area is probably going to be a higher density you've got the CH Collinson complex there DIST owns the property to the north of it for a future school and the likelihood is going to be that that area is going to develop at a greater density than in our one or in our two and although I'm going to be off the Commission for long I do have sympathy for my fellow Commissioners instead of having to do rezones on every one of these parcels as this goes on maybe it would be prudent to look at that area and go maybe the the boundary needs to move a few thousand feet farther to the north and yes we can keep that as in our one in our two placeholder and now this becomes moderate residential and we don't have 20 rezoning cases on property that everybody recognizes between Sherman and Stewart and missile base road is probably going to become a more moderate density residential area so just as suggestion from an old timer that's on his way out the door so I didn't know I was going I asked if I didn't know I was going to make a presentation so I've got my presentation ready but I didn't write it so well I'm all that Richard speak to that I think there was a little bit of confusion as to whether we were the applicant might want to try to go forward since there were actually going to be five rather than four I think I think that was a concern so I think you may have an update I did reach out to to the the applicant and he did say they would still ask you know still wanted to do the postpon ement to the the continuance to the next to the next meeting I think he was heading back to the to the Dallas area and had requested it and wanted to at least have the at least attempt again to have the full Commission in attendance okay with that in mind since we do have I guess a couple commissioners probably prudent just to hold on the presentation and let everybody have an opportunity or would you want to represent it in a station again it's probably maybe better to hold it that way in case there's a discussion that somebody's when we get to the next meeting if there were some points that were made that maybe yeah it's better to have everyone involved in the discussion so they can hear all points okay sorry to start and stop but I think that might be prudent if they wanted to go ahead and hear it tonight so thanks for trying to go quickly I don't think we have really anything else to to cover unless there's an announcement or something else that we need to hear about I can add one I just wanted to kind of talk a little bit about some of these areas that are designated rural on the on the future land use map we had a discussion I guess the last two Fridays at the Development Code Review Committee meeting and we were talking initially the discussion started about the process for for doing this rezoning and and and as we talked through it was became kind of evident that as much as its process it's also policy and and in addition to looking at at the zoning map as part of this exercise we also need to look at the lanes map and so we're sort of we agree these areas probably aren't rural anymore and in addition I think I think Jerry made the point that even our you know we have the in our ETJ we have the division one and division two we've really never have adjusted those lines and so I think now is sort of a good time to really as we 're doing the housekeeping is look at everything and and both from from a from a practical point of view but also from a policy perspective of hey there is some there is some process associated with it but how do we how do we really see ourselves growing and so those are those are some of the items that we're going through now so so it's sort of in the works the only other announcement I wanted to make is Monday was my first official day here as a city employee I'll just jump on and and echo I think it's prudent for staff to be having those types of discussions and I'll just add my perspective as as being in the building and development community I know sometimes the tendency is we want everybody to come before us and see all the rezoning's but the amount of time and money that it takes to do that versus areas that are kind of no-brainer that we we understand that's what it needs to be I think it 's prudent from our city standpoint from a time not only recent resources of the private side of these deals but the public side everybody having to come for these meetings for these types of things all staffs work to do this versus hey there is a no-brainer that area needs to be moderate residential where somebody can come and actually buy it and bring a plat rather than they spend six months or longer doing a contemplating a rezone whether they want to do it or not whether they can get it zoned or not get it zoned whether it's a viable project because whether they can get zoning or not versus it is and while we're sitting here I know there's a lot of discussion about providing housing and affordable housing and where people are going to live it seems that that would be a good discussion to have to go ahead in some of these areas while we're doing the rezone and get that done when there is a demand you can bring product to the market quicker to meet the demand versus you start now and it you may miss the cycle you may get it rezoned and platted and we're now in a downturn and nobody has a need and now you've got lots sitting out that are approved and you could have used them two years ago and put people in them and now the deals dead for five or six more years till it starts back up again so again I would just echo applaud staff for having those kinds of discussions because I think it's prudent not only for the private but also the public side and I think it's a win for everybody so anybody else have a comment or question before we close work session and reconvene oh yeah Commissioner Sanchez I just want to reiterate what you said I think it's important for people to stay ahead of the game you know I had and started looking ahead rather than always playing catch-up and I think you did a good you did a good presentation of explaining why it helps the the contractors were out there I didn't realize how tough it is until now that I'm building something how tough it really is to get something built it's hard it's hard it takes a lot of time and it's expensive so you ain't Commissioner back it's been streamlined very well and you know a lot of shortcuts taken and given the director some options that would normally come before the committee so I see a lot of good stuff in it I think Commissioner Ellis could attest to that too she's seen it too so looking forward to it the fact that we're dealing with something here right now that we could probably change before we actually make this full DDC rewrite change I hope we can get that in the mix too before it's done we'll see anybody else okay well then at 622 we'll close our work session and we'll reconvene for a very short meeting in public session good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and zoning Commission meeting for June 27 2018 this meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum present and will call us to order at 632 our first order of business will be to stand and give the pledge the US and the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivis ible with liberty and justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God one individual just as a point of order we do not have any minutes this evening so we will move on to our public hearing section we have item a this item has been withdrawn so I understand we will not open that then okay and then our item B was requested by the applicant to be continued and I don't know if we have one citizen that's here this evening and I don't know if you'd like for us to open the public hearing and do the presentation and for you to speak and I don't know if Cindy may have had okay I think what we'll do in in essence of saving time and presentation is I will go ahead and call you for we'll open it but we won't do the presentation and we will save that for when we have a full Commission and the applicants here and the chair will just ask for a motion for continued do we have a date certain on that okay the date on that will be July the is it 11th the next meeting okay all right so this chair I'm going to open z 17 - 0 0 2 8 B and we'll look for a motion for continuance Commissioner Beck to date certain of July 11th okay Commissioner Zell second we have a first and a second for continuance any further discussion seeing none will call for a vote on the board that motion is going to carry five to zero that will move us since that open is being that item is being left open that will move us on to our matrix for this evening Commissioner Beck thank you chair yeah Richard if we could get something lined up to discuss zone change I think the process is we started here suggesting certain zone changes this one that we would have been dealing with today would be a good one to start with but I also wanted to make sure that we focus another one I mentioned earlier when we were dealing with a project of 380 where you had in our two out there and that being a major highway now we need to rezone some of that and then after dealing with this project at the last PNC meeting that little parcel of land there on the corner of Myrtle and Eagle we probably should go ahead and take that out of dr1 and put that in DCG it doesn't make any sense to leave that out there by itself so if we could start that process I'm talking about these zone changes like to see it start that as soon as possible since we're dealing with this code rewrite and try and get it in there what I'll do is I'll just prepare an agenda item for work for work work session and we'll go over some of those areas as well as some of the other areas that have annexed in and have been in kind of that holding pattern similar to this one where we had annexed along the rights of way it was 500 feet in I think was the distance where part of the property has a zoning designation another part of it doesn't and so we'll start to look at a number of those and okay along those lines now what Chairman strange brought up in the work session about the prospects of future land use map - now is that something that the city staff will work on and then bring before we would bring that in what I 'll do is I'll bring that in conjunction with because a lot of those areas have that rural designation now so that's one thing that we're starting to look at is in addition to the zoning map update also updating the future land use map okay good deal thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair May 23rd meeting I brought up the sewer issue at industrial and Hickory downtown it's in the meetings of that minute it's not on our matrix nor have I gotten a response about it so I just thought I'd bring it up again I'll make sure you appreciate it thanks Commissioner result thank you chair I wanted to start an investigation or at least a look into the creation of a historic preservation fund for the city the reason and the context behind it would be the last zoning case we had in in regards to the case on Carroll Eagle Myrtle maple area we had a disagreement about protecting those old homes and I think I would like to explore ways in which we can understand where we want to protect historic and old homes but not necessarily every old home and didn't be kept and so and talking to Roman thought about the idea of understanding those homes are old but maybe there's a way to like a developer pay in to a store preservation fund they could proceed to the project and still be challenged to advocate and protect areas of the city so those other municipalities use it in such ways to either resignage and other development or used to protect other homes in the area but a store preservation fund could hopefully identify areas in which you want to financially support the protection of those homes but also allow developers the ability to redevelop places in which there are old homes but not maybe not necessarily where the city wants to protect the historic district in its totality and so I'm happy to send you articles about how those funds are being used but I just would like to see how if it's possible to look into that possibility I'll throw one more on just for good measure this evening it kind of dovetails on what some of the other commissioners have said is I mentioned it before and I don't know that we've ever asked for it to be a work session I think it would be helpful for our Commission to get some background of what development redevelopment whatever term you want to put on it has economic impact on our city I would venture none to hope it doesn't anybody take it it's only I have adventure there's no one on Commission besides me that has any idea how much fees where those fees go how many fees on the projects that are coming before us and that's not ever part of a presentation so for example the the deal for tonight but if you ask anybody wouldn't under wouldn't know that there's probably four million dollars worth of impact fees building permit fees coming in on that deal you're gonna go from a piece of property that's probably on the tax rolls that almost nothing and when the houses are on it's probably a hundred million dollar piece of property out there now and how much impact that makes on providing funds to our city roads sidewalks sales tax property tax that's not ever even part of the presentations that come before us I know there's been some discussion previously about that and I think that's something that is a I've said it before is a missing piece of the presentations that staff makes when they come up and we can then say you know what there's a lot of factors that we consider but that's never a factor that's part of the presentations so I would throw that in and it may not be something you want to dive into but I would just throw that out again no actually I think it's I think it's important I think I mentioned a couple maybe a couple meetings ago we were looking at sort of rev ising our soon to come or revised staff reports we have a not to get into an appending application but there but it's not a straightforward rezoning to single -family there there are some some challenges with it and how how the property and structures are taxed and and it's one of those that if you're just looking at it as oh this is a rezoning for single-family yes it's going to generate although there are some costs with serving a single family as opposed to commercial from city perspective but if it's a a different type of residential unit that's not that's taxed as personal property let's say obviously that 's a much different impact to the city because now you'll have a lot of residents assume two two and a half per unit that aren't necessarily paying tax on the improvement because it's not counted as an improvement and so I even had mentioned it to the city manager about having I'm used to particularly in rezoning seeing an economic impact at least some some part of an analysis and and so I think you'll start to see those in the very near future at least at least on a rezoning level so there is that that that that snapshot of one there are are there potential costs to the city that that are that are well beyond what what that tax generation is but also what what does that what does that mean I think with the application tonight not to get into it too much but one thing I think if you'll see in that staff report this is one where we we required the TIA as part of the rezoning and just given the magnitude of that project we thought it was important because that's look that's what we discussed every time is traffic and the impacts and so I think knowing knowing now what what it causes as well as improvements that could be made and in having that available for you to make your decisions I think is paramount so for these large projects I think you'll start to see having more of that information to make make a truly informed decision well I would welcome that I think that's a missing piece and I welcome staff already having those discussions because I think it's an important part as those presentations are made for everybody to consider and then you have all the facts yes or no so anybody else okay so at 645 we will close this evening thank you everyone