WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.960 Denton Planning and Zoning Commission work session for June 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:06.759 27th 2018. This 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:09.570 meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:11.080 present and I will call us 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:15.560 to order at this time. Our first order of business will be 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:16.199 to receive 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:24.079 clarification of agenda items and I think we don't have 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:25.920 anything on minutes 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:31.329 so that will move us straight on to public hearings and I 00:00:31.329 --> 00:00:32.600 think Cindy 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:36.320 Jackson you'll come up I think there may be some 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:37.560 conversation about whether this 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:41.100 will continue or not and I think Richard asked if you would 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:42.200 go ahead and make 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:47.079 your presentation on this item if you would like. Well I 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:48.079 think we're kind of 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:51.189 bouncing back and forth I hate to put you on the spot. Are 00:00:51.189 --> 00:00:51.960 you still able to 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:56.429 do that? I will give it my best it's only halfway prepared. 00:00:56.429 --> 00:00:57.240 What happened is 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:01.560 the applicant has requested to postpone to the next PNC 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:03.359 meeting which is July 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:08.319 11th or 7th. 7th or 11th I can't remember. It's the 11th 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:13.480 and so I did not complete 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.519 my presentation because I thought I wouldn't be making one. 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:17.840 Well as much 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:22.640 experience as you have I bet half preparation will be 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:23.239 superior. 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:27.760 So well let's give it a go here. 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:34.010 And you got some long timers here so we will hopefully make 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:37.680 it easy on you too. 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:53.079 Oh I know why that's not my login. 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.799 I think they're coming right now to regroup and turn the 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.840 projector on and 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.800 scramble and... 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:24.250 Why isn't it letting me log in? I switched user. Well while 00:02:24.250 --> 00:02:25.639 y'all are 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:30.479 preparing as chair and most members I know fellow 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.520 commissioners usually are 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.120 pretty well prepared. I'm sure everybody's reviewed the 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:37.039 backup material 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:40.439 are there any questions that we could at least get started 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:41.360 while we're waiting 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:46.159 for things to boot up that are particular interest? 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:47.280 Commissioner Beck. 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.830 Thank you chair. The only thing I have is what I brought up 00:02:49.830 --> 00:02:52.039 a while ago is the 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:56.139 existing zoning situation right now and how we might want 00:02:56.139 --> 00:02:57.479 to take a look at that 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.900 in the future because I believe the mobility plan shows 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:02.000 Sherman is going to 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.030 be expanded eventually. So anyway but I know that doesn't 00:03:06.030 --> 00:03:07.360 deal directly with this. 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.900 More of a global issue rather than specific to this one. 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:13.400 Okay. 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.800 The thing that crossed my mind is we probably wouldn't even 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:17.560 be considering an 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:22.000 overlay on this if that in our forward zoning wasn't there. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.639 So anyway for what that's worth. 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:30.590 Okay. Any questions? Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair. 00:03:30.590 --> 00:03:31.919 We last time we 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:35.409 approved the neighborhood north of Louisville 288, I think 00:03:35.409 --> 00:03:37.319 west of here. There's issue about 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:41.680 fire access and the routes fire would take and on the north 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:42.800 side not all the 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.849 stations have an ambulance and so I was just curious about 00:03:46.849 --> 00:03:49.199 the city's look at 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:53.270 adding so many houses to make sure that the current fire 00:03:53.270 --> 00:03:54.840 infrastructure there is 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:59.030 an ambulance and response appropriate to the number of 00:03:59.030 --> 00:04:00.960 houses going up north. 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:03.789 That was looked at actually during annexation and the fire 00:04:03.789 --> 00:04:05.039 department did say they do 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.530 have a fire station that is close enough by that they can 00:04:09.530 --> 00:04:11.520 maintain the standard 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.590 response times that you see all over the city. Okay. They 00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:16.759 've just rebuilt 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.160 the new one right there and I think you're right I think it 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:19.839 was a smaller 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:27.160 station that enlarged it now. Okay. Commissioner are you 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:27.839 ready to go Cindy? 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.259 Yeah well I'll answer a question. Commissioner Ellis I 00:04:30.259 --> 00:04:31.319 recognize you. We'll see where you go. 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.120 Thank you chair. You know my questions revolved around the 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.339 proportionality study that was mentioned a couple times 00:04:37.339 --> 00:04:37.879 about the road 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.290 improvement that's due. Who prepares that? When does the 00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:42.680 developer know what their 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:46.560 proportion is? During platting and it's actually prepared 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:47.399 by the engineering 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.370 department. They have specific formulas that are based on 00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:52.920 the number of houses in 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:56.170 the development, the number of trips anticipated, the type 00:04:56.170 --> 00:04:57.079 of roads that are 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.920 involved and you kind of combine all that together with 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.120 they've got formulas 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:06.360 and that gives them their proportionality. And it's time of 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:06.920 platting you said? 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.680 Pardon me? Don't know time of platting? That's correct. 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:14.720 Okay. Commissioner Sanchez. 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.600 It talks about that when it was brought that property was 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:19.199 brought in it 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:23.720 was brought under RD 5X as a placeholder but yet then it 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:25.000 goes on to saying it's 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.689 it's subject to all this all the restrictions. As a place 00:05:28.689 --> 00:05:29.680 holder... Yes it is. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:32.259 And okay so it gets brought in there but that doesn't 00:05:32.259 --> 00:05:33.600 necessarily mean when it 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.670 gets at a place holding position that it's going to 00:05:37.670 --> 00:05:40.839 influence what future 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.529 zoning will occur does it? Well the placeholder doesn't 00:05:44.529 --> 00:05:45.560 influence future 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.360 zoning. The placeholder is just as it is. Theoretically 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:50.680 they're zoned 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.089 RD 5X however in reality they don't have a zoning 00:05:54.089 --> 00:05:55.399 designation that's just a 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.589 placeholder. If the applicant wants to develop without 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:00.800 going through a zoning 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:05.439 all they can do is what is a permitted in the RD 5 district 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:07.839 . Okay because one of 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.720 the things that I noticed is it refers back to that that it 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:13.079 doesn't meet you 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:18.620 know it's the new to zoning is does not meet that RD 5 or 00:06:18.620 --> 00:06:19.600 talks about RD 5. 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:23.860 It doesn't meet the rural areas land use designation. You 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:24.800 've got your land use 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:30.439 designation which just it sets the goals and policies for 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:32.079 the city has for that 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.689 area at the time the future land use plan was written and 00:06:35.689 --> 00:06:36.680 then you've got your 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.750 placeholder zoning which is a totally different item which 00:06:40.750 --> 00:06:41.199 tells them 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:46.129 exactly what people can do on the property at that certain 00:06:46.129 --> 00:06:47.959 time. You look 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:52.860 at the future land use map as a roadmap for zoning and land 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:53.959 use and each 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:59.370 designation of the future land use map indicates a range of 00:06:59.370 --> 00:07:01.079 zoning districts 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:05.670 that are expect anticipated to be put in that area. So for 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:07.519 example you've got your 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:13.079 low density low density residential that is expected to be 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.959 like NR 1 NR 2 NR 3. 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:20.399 You've got moderate density which you would see NR 6 NR 4 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:21.360 and then you've got 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:26.240 and NR 12 and then you've got high density which is NRMU. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:27.639 All right but as 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:31.339 the city is expanding those those rural areas especially at 00:07:31.339 --> 00:07:32.519 the edge of the city 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.379 I have you have to be concerned at a much higher density 00:07:36.379 --> 00:07:36.920 than what you're 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:41.170 and what you're looking at here. Exactly exactly when when 00:07:41.170 --> 00:07:42.240 the future land use 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.259 was created a few years ago we still had area at large 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:46.720 tracks of land within the 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:51.339 loop within the loop to develop. Those those are filling up 00:07:51.339 --> 00:07:52.480 rapidly and we're 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:58.240 seeing developers now move outside the loop and when the 00:07:58.240 --> 00:07:59.399 the Denton plan was 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:03.769 conceived how many years ago now three years ago they didn 00:08:03.769 --> 00:08:05.879 't anticipate that it 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:08.319 would move so quickly the development would move so quickly 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:08.720 so we're gonna 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.620 have to take a look at that again. I'll follow up on 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:14.399 Commissioner Sanchez point 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:18.740 with with the rezone that's currently being discussed what 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:20.279 is that area being 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:24.610 considered now by the city? We haven't got to that point 00:08:24.610 --> 00:08:26.600 yet. Okay. We and from what 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.180 we've seen we have we have seen an awful lot of interest 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:31.360 from residential 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.799 developers for this area an awful lot in fact I've received 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:35.539 another zoning 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:37.929 application we received another zoning application that I 00:08:37.929 --> 00:08:38.799 was assigned to this 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.110 week we're just up the street for residential so it's 00:08:43.110 --> 00:08:44.360 getting ready to 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:49.600 just explode up there. So that that is going to be looked 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.799 at then with the new 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:56.200 rezoning that's coming in the well I don't know I haven't 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:57.159 really looked at 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:04.059 the map that closely yet. Yes and no and I say it only if 00:09:04.059 --> 00:09:05.159 if they are going 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:10.879 through a rezoning what we've done now is sort of it's not 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:12.000 like we want anybody 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:14.360 to hedge their bet on anything so we're sort of blacking 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:15.559 them out for now um 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.230 however if they have if they've just gone through a rez 00:09:18.230 --> 00:09:19.200 oning and it and that 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:24.360 it has gotten approved we're not looking to change that as 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:25.320 part of the the 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:27.820 rezoning to something then that would be inconsistent with 00:09:27.820 --> 00:09:28.679 they would have just 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:32.080 gotten approved you know six months prior. Well I agree 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:32.360 with that and I 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:36.850 appreciate the additional information I get I guess from 00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:38.279 from my point of view 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:43.200 is we all understand that things are changing yes we're 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:43.879 aware that they're 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:47.990 changing and that area is probably not going to be in our 00:09:47.990 --> 00:09:49.799 one we've probably 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:54.240 passed the point that that's in our one and our two is 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:55.720 appropriate type zoning 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:58.309 and so the only reason that I bring it up is for 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:00.120 consideration that we look at 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.210 it with an open mind that that area is probably going to be 00:10:05.210 --> 00:10:05.879 a higher density 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:10.169 you've got the CH Collinson complex there DIST owns the 00:10:10.169 --> 00:10:11.100 property to the 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:14.519 north of it for a future school and the likelihood is going 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:15.799 to be that that area 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:19.200 is going to develop at a greater density than in our one or 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:20.279 in our two and 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.210 although I'm going to be off the Commission for long I do 00:10:24.210 --> 00:10:25.120 have sympathy 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.519 for my fellow Commissioners instead of having to do rezones 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:29.360 on every one of 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.590 these parcels as this goes on maybe it would be prudent to 00:10:33.590 --> 00:10:34.879 look at that area 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.679 and go maybe the the boundary needs to move a few thousand 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:40.879 feet farther to the 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:45.070 north and yes we can keep that as in our one in our two 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:46.960 placeholder and now this 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:52.740 becomes moderate residential and we don't have 20 rezoning 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:54.320 cases on property 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.620 that everybody recognizes between Sherman and Stewart and 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:00.600 missile base road is 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:05.649 probably going to become a more moderate density 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:09.039 residential area so just as 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.919 suggestion from an old timer that's on his way out the door 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:19.519 so I didn't know I 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:22.080 was going I asked if I didn't know I was going to make a 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:23.320 presentation so I've got 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.009 my presentation ready but I didn't write it so well I'm all 00:11:27.009 --> 00:11:28.320 that Richard speak to 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.340 that I think there was a little bit of confusion as to 00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:32.679 whether we were the 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.690 applicant might want to try to go forward since there were 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:35.320 actually going 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.720 to be five rather than four I think I think that was a 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:39.600 concern so I think you 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.919 may have an update I did reach out to to the the applicant 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:44.960 and he did say they 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.860 would still ask you know still wanted to do the postpon 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:48.919 ement to the the 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:51.549 continuance to the next to the next meeting I think he was 00:11:51.549 --> 00:11:52.559 heading back to 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:54.990 the to the Dallas area and had requested it and wanted to 00:11:54.990 --> 00:11:56.320 at least have the at 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.730 least attempt again to have the full Commission in 00:11:59.730 --> 00:12:02.000 attendance okay with that 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:05.409 in mind since we do have I guess a couple commissioners 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:06.720 probably prudent 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.129 just to hold on the presentation and let everybody have an 00:12:10.129 --> 00:12:11.000 opportunity or would 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.919 you want to represent it in a station again it's probably 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:16.480 maybe better to hold 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.159 it that way in case there's a discussion that somebody's 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:20.200 when we get to the next 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:26.149 meeting if there were some points that were made that maybe 00:12:26.149 --> 00:12:27.039 yeah it's better to 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.759 have everyone involved in the discussion so they can hear 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:33.519 all points okay sorry to 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.500 start and stop but I think that might be prudent if they 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:37.799 wanted to go ahead and 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:45.580 hear it tonight so thanks for trying to go quickly I don't 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:46.399 think we have really 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.480 anything else to to cover unless there's an announcement or 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:53.200 something else that 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.389 we need to hear about I can add one I just wanted to kind 00:12:57.389 --> 00:12:58.360 of talk a little bit 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.830 about some of these areas that are designated rural on the 00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:02.720 on the future 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:06.409 land use map we had a discussion I guess the last two 00:13:06.409 --> 00:13:08.840 Fridays at the Development 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.750 Code Review Committee meeting and we were talking initially 00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:13.519 the discussion 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:17.070 started about the process for for doing this rezoning and 00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:18.360 and and as we talked 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.299 through it was became kind of evident that as much as its 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:22.320 process it's also 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.389 policy and and in addition to looking at at the zoning map 00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:27.519 as part of this 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:31.279 exercise we also need to look at the lanes map and so we're 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:32.279 sort of we agree 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:39.360 these areas probably aren't rural anymore and in addition I 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:39.879 think I think 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.279 Jerry made the point that even our you know we have the in 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:44.279 our ETJ we have the 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:46.529 division one and division two we've really never have 00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:47.440 adjusted those lines 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.110 and so I think now is sort of a good time to really as we 00:13:50.110 --> 00:13:50.919 're doing the 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:55.110 housekeeping is look at everything and and both from from a 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:56.320 from a practical 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.700 point of view but also from a policy perspective of hey 00:13:58.700 --> 00:13:59.639 there is some there 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.470 is some process associated with it but how do we how do we 00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:03.279 really see ourselves 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.779 growing and so those are those are some of the items that 00:14:05.779 --> 00:14:06.799 we're going through 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.399 now so so it's sort of in the works the only other 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.080 announcement I wanted to make 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.519 is Monday was my first official day here as a city employee 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.330 I'll just jump on and and echo I think it's prudent for 00:14:26.330 --> 00:14:29.559 staff to be having 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:33.929 those types of discussions and I'll just add my perspective 00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:35.240 as as being in the 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.039 building and development community I know sometimes the 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.360 tendency is we want 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:44.049 everybody to come before us and see all the rezoning's but 00:14:44.049 --> 00:14:45.200 the amount of time 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.600 and money that it takes to do that versus areas that are 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.279 kind of no-brainer 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:56.169 that we we understand that's what it needs to be I think it 00:14:56.169 --> 00:14:56.759 's prudent from 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:01.370 our city standpoint from a time not only recent resources 00:15:01.370 --> 00:15:02.960 of the private side of 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:06.360 these deals but the public side everybody having to come 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:06.679 for these 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.769 meetings for these types of things all staffs work to do 00:15:09.769 --> 00:15:11.639 this versus hey there 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.110 is a no-brainer that area needs to be moderate residential 00:15:14.110 --> 00:15:15.039 where somebody can 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.909 come and actually buy it and bring a plat rather than they 00:15:18.909 --> 00:15:20.120 spend six months 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:25.090 or longer doing a contemplating a rezone whether they want 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:25.639 to do it or not 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.070 whether they can get it zoned or not get it zoned whether 00:15:28.070 --> 00:15:29.120 it's a viable project 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:33.090 because whether they can get zoning or not versus it is and 00:15:33.090 --> 00:15:34.159 while we're sitting 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.820 here I know there's a lot of discussion about providing 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:38.120 housing and affordable 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:41.519 housing and where people are going to live it seems that 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:42.960 that would be a good 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.379 discussion to have to go ahead in some of these areas while 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:47.360 we're doing the 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.940 rezone and get that done when there is a demand you can 00:15:51.940 --> 00:15:53.240 bring product to the 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.820 market quicker to meet the demand versus you start now and 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:58.039 it you may miss the 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.570 cycle you may get it rezoned and platted and we're now in a 00:16:00.570 --> 00:16:01.639 downturn and nobody 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:05.200 has a need and now you've got lots sitting out that are 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:06.440 approved and you 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.620 could have used them two years ago and put people in them 00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:09.399 and now the deals 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:12.929 dead for five or six more years till it starts back up 00:16:12.929 --> 00:16:16.000 again so again I would 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.690 just echo applaud staff for having those kinds of 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:21.200 discussions because I think 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.600 it's prudent not only for the private but also the public 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:25.759 side and I think it's a 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:30.200 win for everybody so anybody else have a comment or 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.159 question before we close work 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:37.360 session and reconvene oh yeah Commissioner Sanchez I just 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:37.600 want to 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.750 reiterate what you said I think it's important for people 00:16:40.750 --> 00:16:41.759 to stay ahead of 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.690 the game you know I had and started looking ahead rather 00:16:44.690 --> 00:16:45.679 than always playing 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.710 catch-up and I think you did a good you did a good 00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:50.000 presentation of explaining 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.799 why it helps the the contractors were out there I didn't 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.720 realize how tough it is 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.830 until now that I'm building something how tough it really 00:16:59.830 --> 00:17:00.639 is to get something 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.829 built it's hard it's hard it takes a lot of time and it's 00:17:04.829 --> 00:17:08.279 expensive so you ain't 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.640 Commissioner back 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:22.319 it's been streamlined very well and you know a lot of 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.440 shortcuts taken and given 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.529 the director some options that would normally come before 00:17:27.529 --> 00:17:28.480 the committee so I 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.170 see a lot of good stuff in it I think Commissioner Ellis 00:17:32.170 --> 00:17:33.160 could attest to that 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.519 too she's seen it too so looking forward to it the fact 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:38.480 that we're dealing with 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.880 something here right now that we could probably change 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.000 before we actually make 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.569 this full DDC rewrite change I hope we can get that in the 00:17:46.569 --> 00:17:47.799 mix too before it's 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:58.019 done we'll see anybody else okay well then at 622 we'll 00:17:58.019 --> 00:17:59.240 close our work session 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:04.920 and we'll reconvene for a very short meeting in public 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:12.799 session good evening 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.200 and welcome to the city of Denton planning and zoning 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:16.200 Commission meeting 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:21.359 for June 27 2018 this meeting has been duly posted and we 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.119 do have a quorum 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.930 present and will call us to order at 632 our first order of 00:18:26.930 --> 00:18:27.720 business will be to 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:32.119 stand and give the pledge the US and the Texas flag 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.650 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:39.599 America and to the 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:44.400 Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivis 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.000 ible with liberty and 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:52.900 justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to 00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:55.160 the Texas one state 00:18:55.160 --> 00:19:00.119 under God one individual 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.470 just as a point of order we do not have any minutes this 00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:11.559 evening so we will move 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:18.500 on to our public hearing section we have item a this item 00:19:18.500 --> 00:19:21.000 has been withdrawn so 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:26.440 I understand we will not open that then okay and then our 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:28.680 item B was requested 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:35.009 by the applicant to be continued and I don't know if we 00:19:35.009 --> 00:19:37.480 have one citizen that's 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:40.240 here this evening and I don't know if you'd like for us to 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:41.079 open the public 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:43.950 hearing and do the presentation and for you to speak and I 00:19:43.950 --> 00:19:45.799 don't know if Cindy 00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:50.880 may have had okay I think what we'll do in in essence of 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.400 saving time and 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.309 presentation is I will go ahead and call you for we'll open 00:19:56.309 --> 00:19:57.480 it but we won't do 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:00.880 the presentation and we will save that for when we have a 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:01.920 full Commission and 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:05.369 the applicants here and the chair will just ask for a 00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:07.039 motion for continued do 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.960 we have a date certain on that okay the date on that will 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.599 be July the is it 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:19.519 11th the next meeting okay all right so this chair I'm 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:24.519 going to open z 17 - 0 0 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:32.279 2 8 B and we'll look for a motion for continuance 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:45.160 Commissioner Beck to date certain of July 11th okay 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:49.480 Commissioner Zell second we have a first and a second for 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.279 continuance any further 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:59.160 discussion seeing none will call for a vote on the board 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:10.869 that motion is going to carry five to zero that will move 00:21:10.869 --> 00:21:14.720 us since that open 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.119 is being that item is being left open that will move us on 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:19.160 to our matrix for 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:24.400 this evening Commissioner Beck thank you chair yeah Richard 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:25.680 if we could get 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:25.680 something lined up to discuss zone change I think the 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:31.720 process is we started 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:36.710 here suggesting certain zone changes this one that we would 00:21:36.710 --> 00:21:37.480 have been dealing 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.190 with today would be a good one to start with but I also 00:21:40.190 --> 00:21:42.839 wanted to make sure that 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.849 we focus another one I mentioned earlier when we were 00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:48.960 dealing with a project of 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.759 380 where you had in our two out there and that being a 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.640 major highway now we 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.589 need to rezone some of that and then after dealing with 00:22:00.589 --> 00:22:02.400 this project at the 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.230 last PNC meeting that little parcel of land there on the 00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:06.359 corner of Myrtle and 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.759 Eagle we probably should go ahead and take that out of dr1 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:11.160 and put that in DCG 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:13.720 it doesn't make any sense to leave that out there by itself 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:16.160 so if we could start 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:21.099 that process I'm talking about these zone changes like to 00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:22.079 see it start that 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.490 as soon as possible since we're dealing with this code 00:22:25.490 --> 00:22:26.279 rewrite and try and get it 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.279 in there 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.200 what I'll do is I'll just prepare an agenda item for work 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:33.200 for work work 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:35.549 session and we'll go over some of those areas as well as 00:22:35.549 --> 00:22:36.759 some of the other areas 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.369 that have annexed in and have been in kind of that holding 00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:42.160 pattern similar to 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:46.279 this one where we had annexed along the rights of way it 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:47.799 was 500 feet in I think 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:51.210 was the distance where part of the property has a zoning 00:22:51.210 --> 00:22:52.200 designation another 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.430 part of it doesn't and so we'll start to look at a number 00:22:55.430 --> 00:22:57.559 of those and okay along 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:01.319 those lines now what Chairman strange brought up in the 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:03.440 work session about the 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.450 prospects of future land use map - now is that something 00:23:06.450 --> 00:23:07.799 that the city staff will 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.359 work on and then bring before we would bring that in what I 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:11.240 'll do is I'll bring 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.210 that in conjunction with because a lot of those areas have 00:23:14.210 --> 00:23:14.839 that rural 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:17.289 designation now so that's one thing that we're starting to 00:23:17.289 --> 00:23:18.240 look at is in addition 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.220 to the zoning map update also updating the future land use 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:23.440 map okay good deal 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:28.599 thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair May 23rd 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:29.480 meeting I brought up the 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.539 sewer issue at industrial and Hickory downtown it's in the 00:23:32.539 --> 00:23:33.759 meetings of that 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.509 minute it's not on our matrix nor have I gotten a response 00:23:36.509 --> 00:23:37.279 about it so I just 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.390 thought I'd bring it up again I'll make sure you appreciate 00:23:39.390 --> 00:23:41.440 it thanks 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:46.880 Commissioner result thank you chair I wanted to start an 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.079 investigation or at 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:51.599 least a look into the creation of a historic preservation 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.240 fund for the city 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:58.039 the reason and the context behind it would be the last 00:23:58.039 --> 00:23:59.680 zoning case we had in 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:04.680 in regards to the case on Carroll Eagle Myrtle maple area 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.359 we had a disagreement 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.460 about protecting those old homes and I think I would like 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:11.519 to explore ways in 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:17.059 which we can understand where we want to protect historic 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.759 and old homes but not 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.759 necessarily every old home and didn't be kept and so and 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.680 talking to Roman thought 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.619 about the idea of understanding those homes are old but 00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:30.200 maybe there's a way to 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:33.660 like a developer pay in to a store preservation fund they 00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:34.680 could proceed to 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.529 the project and still be challenged to advocate and protect 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:40.519 areas of the city 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:45.079 so those other municipalities use it in such ways to either 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:45.960 resignage and other 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.869 development or used to protect other homes in the area but 00:24:48.869 --> 00:24:49.519 a store 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.549 preservation fund could hopefully identify areas in which 00:24:52.549 --> 00:24:53.160 you want to 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.740 financially support the protection of those homes but also 00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:57.880 allow developers 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:01.750 the ability to redevelop places in which there are old 00:25:01.750 --> 00:25:03.359 homes but not maybe not 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.859 necessarily where the city wants to protect the historic 00:25:05.859 --> 00:25:06.599 district in its 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:10.180 totality and so I'm happy to send you articles about how 00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:11.000 those funds are being 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.819 used but I just would like to see how if it's possible to 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:16.200 look into that 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.000 possibility 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:28.759 I'll throw one more on just for good measure this evening 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.240 it kind of dovetails 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.650 on what some of the other commissioners have said is I 00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:35.119 mentioned it before and I 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.990 don't know that we've ever asked for it to be a work 00:25:37.990 --> 00:25:40.160 session I think it would be 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:46.490 helpful for our Commission to get some background of what 00:25:46.490 --> 00:25:47.759 development 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.170 redevelopment whatever term you want to put on it has 00:25:51.170 --> 00:25:52.440 economic impact on our 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.849 city I would venture none to hope it doesn't anybody take 00:25:57.849 --> 00:25:58.359 it it's only I 00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:00.970 have adventure there's no one on Commission besides me that 00:26:00.970 --> 00:26:01.559 has any idea 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:08.119 how much fees where those fees go how many fees on the 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:09.599 projects that are 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:13.319 coming before us and that's not ever part of a presentation 00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.640 so for example 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.869 the the deal for tonight but if you ask anybody wouldn't 00:26:17.869 --> 00:26:18.640 under wouldn't know 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.049 that there's probably four million dollars worth of impact 00:26:22.049 --> 00:26:23.000 fees building 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.480 permit fees coming in on that deal you're gonna go from a 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.480 piece of property 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.309 that's probably on the tax rolls that almost nothing and 00:26:30.309 --> 00:26:31.279 when the houses are 00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:34.109 on it's probably a hundred million dollar piece of property 00:26:34.109 --> 00:26:34.960 out there now 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:41.200 and how much impact that makes on providing funds to our 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.480 city roads 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.710 sidewalks sales tax property tax that's not ever even part 00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:50.279 of the presentations 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.890 that come before us I know there's been some discussion 00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:54.039 previously about that 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:58.519 and I think that's something that is a I've said it before 00:26:58.519 --> 00:26:59.799 is a missing piece 00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:04.079 of the presentations that staff makes when they come up and 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:05.200 we can then say 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.460 you know what there's a lot of factors that we consider but 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:09.240 that's never a 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.049 factor that's part of the presentations so I would throw 00:27:13.049 --> 00:27:14.599 that in and it may not 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.509 be something you want to dive into but I would just throw 00:27:18.509 --> 00:27:20.559 that out again no 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:23.319 actually I think it's I think it's important I think I 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:24.440 mentioned a couple 00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:28.210 maybe a couple meetings ago we were looking at sort of rev 00:27:28.210 --> 00:27:29.559 ising our soon to 00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:33.950 come or revised staff reports we have a not to get into an 00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:35.680 appending application 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:40.359 but there but it's not a straightforward rezoning to single 00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:41.559 -family there there 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.680 are some some challenges with it and how how the property 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:47.519 and structures are taxed 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.390 and and it's one of those that if you're just looking at it 00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:52.319 as oh this is a 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.369 rezoning for single-family yes it's going to generate 00:27:55.369 --> 00:27:56.519 although there are 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.269 some costs with serving a single family as opposed to 00:27:59.269 --> 00:28:00.440 commercial from city 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:05.059 perspective but if it's a a different type of residential 00:28:05.059 --> 00:28:06.039 unit that's not 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:09.839 that's taxed as personal property let's say obviously that 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.880 's a much different 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.400 impact to the city because now you'll have a lot of 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.720 residents assume two two 00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:20.410 and a half per unit that aren't necessarily paying tax on 00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:21.119 the improvement 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:25.519 because it's not counted as an improvement and so I even 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:26.240 had mentioned 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.950 it to the city manager about having I'm used to 00:28:28.950 --> 00:28:31.440 particularly in rezoning seeing 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:36.319 an economic impact at least some some part of an analysis 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:37.720 and and so I think 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.589 you'll start to see those in the very near future at least 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:42.559 at least on a 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:48.319 rezoning level so there is that that that that snapshot of 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:50.079 one there are are 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:54.579 there potential costs to the city that that are that are 00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:56.119 well beyond what what 00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:59.670 that tax generation is but also what what does that what 00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:00.680 does that mean I 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.269 think with the application tonight not to get into it too 00:29:04.269 --> 00:29:05.559 much but one thing I 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:09.750 think if you'll see in that staff report this is one where 00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:11.400 we we required the TIA 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:16.240 as part of the rezoning and just given the magnitude of 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.559 that project we thought 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.829 it was important because that's look that's what we 00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:22.960 discussed every time is 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.369 traffic and the impacts and so I think knowing knowing now 00:29:26.369 --> 00:29:27.599 what what it causes 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:32.769 as well as improvements that could be made and in having 00:29:32.769 --> 00:29:33.720 that available for 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.430 you to make your decisions I think is paramount so for 00:29:36.430 --> 00:29:37.680 these large projects I 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.569 think you'll start to see having more of that information 00:29:40.569 --> 00:29:41.640 to make make a truly 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.039 informed decision well I would welcome that I think that's 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:46.000 a missing piece and 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.740 I welcome staff already having those discussions because I 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:50.440 think it's an 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.900 important part as those presentations are made for 00:29:53.900 --> 00:29:55.720 everybody to consider and 00:29:55.720 --> 00:30:02.619 then you have all the facts yes or no so anybody else okay 00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:06.119 so at 645 we will 00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.480 close this evening thank you everyone