Denton Planning and Zoning Commission work session for June
27th 2018. This
meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum
present and I will call us
to order at this time. Our first order of business will be
to receive
clarification of agenda items and I think we don't have
anything on minutes
so that will move us straight on to public hearings and I
think Cindy
Jackson you'll come up I think there may be some
conversation about whether this
will continue or not and I think Richard asked if you would
go ahead and make
your presentation on this item if you would like. Well I
think we're kind of
bouncing back and forth I hate to put you on the spot. Are
you still able to
do that? I will give it my best it's only halfway prepared.
What happened is
the applicant has requested to postpone to the next PNC
meeting which is July
11th or 7th. 7th or 11th I can't remember. It's the 11th
and so I did not complete
my presentation because I thought I wouldn't be making one.
Well as much
experience as you have I bet half preparation will be
superior.
So well let's give it a go here.
And you got some long timers here so we will hopefully make
it easy on you too.
Oh I know why that's not my login.
I think they're coming right now to regroup and turn the
projector on and
scramble and...
Why isn't it letting me log in? I switched user. Well while
y'all are
preparing as chair and most members I know fellow
commissioners usually are
pretty well prepared. I'm sure everybody's reviewed the
backup material
are there any questions that we could at least get started
while we're waiting
for things to boot up that are particular interest?
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you chair. The only thing I have is what I brought up
a while ago is the
existing zoning situation right now and how we might want
to take a look at that
in the future because I believe the mobility plan shows
Sherman is going to
be expanded eventually. So anyway but I know that doesn't
deal directly with this.
More of a global issue rather than specific to this one.
Okay.
The thing that crossed my mind is we probably wouldn't even
be considering an
overlay on this if that in our forward zoning wasn't there.
So anyway for what that's worth.
Okay. Any questions? Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair.
We last time we
approved the neighborhood north of Louisville 288, I think
west of here. There's issue about
fire access and the routes fire would take and on the north
side not all the
stations have an ambulance and so I was just curious about
the city's look at
adding so many houses to make sure that the current fire
infrastructure there is
an ambulance and response appropriate to the number of
houses going up north.
That was looked at actually during annexation and the fire
department did say they do
have a fire station that is close enough by that they can
maintain the standard
response times that you see all over the city. Okay. They
've just rebuilt
the new one right there and I think you're right I think it
was a smaller
station that enlarged it now. Okay. Commissioner are you
ready to go Cindy?
Yeah well I'll answer a question. Commissioner Ellis I
recognize you. We'll see where you go.
Thank you chair. You know my questions revolved around the
proportionality study that was mentioned a couple times
about the road
improvement that's due. Who prepares that? When does the
developer know what their
proportion is? During platting and it's actually prepared
by the engineering
department. They have specific formulas that are based on
the number of houses in
the development, the number of trips anticipated, the type
of roads that are
involved and you kind of combine all that together with
they've got formulas
and that gives them their proportionality. And it's time of
platting you said?
Pardon me? Don't know time of platting? That's correct.
Okay. Commissioner Sanchez.
It talks about that when it was brought that property was
brought in it
was brought under RD 5X as a placeholder but yet then it
goes on to saying it's
it's subject to all this all the restrictions. As a place
holder... Yes it is.
And okay so it gets brought in there but that doesn't
necessarily mean when it
gets at a place holding position that it's going to
influence what future
zoning will occur does it? Well the placeholder doesn't
influence future
zoning. The placeholder is just as it is. Theoretically
they're zoned
RD 5X however in reality they don't have a zoning
designation that's just a
placeholder. If the applicant wants to develop without
going through a zoning
all they can do is what is a permitted in the RD 5 district
. Okay because one of
the things that I noticed is it refers back to that that it
doesn't meet you
know it's the new to zoning is does not meet that RD 5 or
talks about RD 5.
It doesn't meet the rural areas land use designation. You
've got your land use
designation which just it sets the goals and policies for
the city has for that
area at the time the future land use plan was written and
then you've got your
placeholder zoning which is a totally different item which
tells them
exactly what people can do on the property at that certain
time. You look
at the future land use map as a roadmap for zoning and land
use and each
designation of the future land use map indicates a range of
zoning districts
that are expect anticipated to be put in that area. So for
example you've got your
low density low density residential that is expected to be
like NR 1 NR 2 NR 3.
You've got moderate density which you would see NR 6 NR 4
and then you've got
and NR 12 and then you've got high density which is NRMU.
All right but as
the city is expanding those those rural areas especially at
the edge of the city
I have you have to be concerned at a much higher density
than what you're
and what you're looking at here. Exactly exactly when when
the future land use
was created a few years ago we still had area at large
tracks of land within the
loop within the loop to develop. Those those are filling up
rapidly and we're
seeing developers now move outside the loop and when the
the Denton plan was
conceived how many years ago now three years ago they didn
't anticipate that it
would move so quickly the development would move so quickly
so we're gonna
have to take a look at that again. I'll follow up on
Commissioner Sanchez point
with with the rezone that's currently being discussed what
is that area being
considered now by the city? We haven't got to that point
yet. Okay. We and from what
we've seen we have we have seen an awful lot of interest
from residential
developers for this area an awful lot in fact I've received
another zoning
application we received another zoning application that I
was assigned to this
week we're just up the street for residential so it's
getting ready to
just explode up there. So that that is going to be looked
at then with the new
rezoning that's coming in the well I don't know I haven't
really looked at
the map that closely yet. Yes and no and I say it only if
if they are going
through a rezoning what we've done now is sort of it's not
like we want anybody
to hedge their bet on anything so we're sort of blacking
them out for now um
however if they have if they've just gone through a rez
oning and it and that
it has gotten approved we're not looking to change that as
part of the the
rezoning to something then that would be inconsistent with
they would have just
gotten approved you know six months prior. Well I agree
with that and I
appreciate the additional information I get I guess from
from my point of view
is we all understand that things are changing yes we're
aware that they're
changing and that area is probably not going to be in our
one we've probably
passed the point that that's in our one and our two is
appropriate type zoning
and so the only reason that I bring it up is for
consideration that we look at
it with an open mind that that area is probably going to be
a higher density
you've got the CH Collinson complex there DIST owns the
property to the
north of it for a future school and the likelihood is going
to be that that area
is going to develop at a greater density than in our one or
in our two and
although I'm going to be off the Commission for long I do
have sympathy
for my fellow Commissioners instead of having to do rezones
on every one of
these parcels as this goes on maybe it would be prudent to
look at that area
and go maybe the the boundary needs to move a few thousand
feet farther to the
north and yes we can keep that as in our one in our two
placeholder and now this
becomes moderate residential and we don't have 20 rezoning
cases on property
that everybody recognizes between Sherman and Stewart and
missile base road is
probably going to become a more moderate density
residential area so just as
suggestion from an old timer that's on his way out the door
so I didn't know I
was going I asked if I didn't know I was going to make a
presentation so I've got
my presentation ready but I didn't write it so well I'm all
that Richard speak to
that I think there was a little bit of confusion as to
whether we were the
applicant might want to try to go forward since there were
actually going
to be five rather than four I think I think that was a
concern so I think you
may have an update I did reach out to to the the applicant
and he did say they
would still ask you know still wanted to do the postpon
ement to the the
continuance to the next to the next meeting I think he was
heading back to
the to the Dallas area and had requested it and wanted to
at least have the at
least attempt again to have the full Commission in
attendance okay with that
in mind since we do have I guess a couple commissioners
probably prudent
just to hold on the presentation and let everybody have an
opportunity or would
you want to represent it in a station again it's probably
maybe better to hold
it that way in case there's a discussion that somebody's
when we get to the next
meeting if there were some points that were made that maybe
yeah it's better to
have everyone involved in the discussion so they can hear
all points okay sorry to
start and stop but I think that might be prudent if they
wanted to go ahead and
hear it tonight so thanks for trying to go quickly I don't
think we have really
anything else to to cover unless there's an announcement or
something else that
we need to hear about I can add one I just wanted to kind
of talk a little bit
about some of these areas that are designated rural on the
on the future
land use map we had a discussion I guess the last two
Fridays at the Development
Code Review Committee meeting and we were talking initially
the discussion
started about the process for for doing this rezoning and
and and as we talked
through it was became kind of evident that as much as its
process it's also
policy and and in addition to looking at at the zoning map
as part of this
exercise we also need to look at the lanes map and so we're
sort of we agree
these areas probably aren't rural anymore and in addition I
think I think
Jerry made the point that even our you know we have the in
our ETJ we have the
division one and division two we've really never have
adjusted those lines
and so I think now is sort of a good time to really as we
're doing the
housekeeping is look at everything and and both from from a
from a practical
point of view but also from a policy perspective of hey
there is some there
is some process associated with it but how do we how do we
really see ourselves
growing and so those are those are some of the items that
we're going through
now so so it's sort of in the works the only other
announcement I wanted to make
is Monday was my first official day here as a city employee
I'll just jump on and and echo I think it's prudent for
staff to be having
those types of discussions and I'll just add my perspective
as as being in the
building and development community I know sometimes the
tendency is we want
everybody to come before us and see all the rezoning's but
the amount of time
and money that it takes to do that versus areas that are
kind of no-brainer
that we we understand that's what it needs to be I think it
's prudent from
our city standpoint from a time not only recent resources
of the private side of
these deals but the public side everybody having to come
for these
meetings for these types of things all staffs work to do
this versus hey there
is a no-brainer that area needs to be moderate residential
where somebody can
come and actually buy it and bring a plat rather than they
spend six months
or longer doing a contemplating a rezone whether they want
to do it or not
whether they can get it zoned or not get it zoned whether
it's a viable project
because whether they can get zoning or not versus it is and
while we're sitting
here I know there's a lot of discussion about providing
housing and affordable
housing and where people are going to live it seems that
that would be a good
discussion to have to go ahead in some of these areas while
we're doing the
rezone and get that done when there is a demand you can
bring product to the
market quicker to meet the demand versus you start now and
it you may miss the
cycle you may get it rezoned and platted and we're now in a
downturn and nobody
has a need and now you've got lots sitting out that are
approved and you
could have used them two years ago and put people in them
and now the deals
dead for five or six more years till it starts back up
again so again I would
just echo applaud staff for having those kinds of
discussions because I think
it's prudent not only for the private but also the public
side and I think it's a
win for everybody so anybody else have a comment or
question before we close work
session and reconvene oh yeah Commissioner Sanchez I just
want to
reiterate what you said I think it's important for people
to stay ahead of
the game you know I had and started looking ahead rather
than always playing
catch-up and I think you did a good you did a good
presentation of explaining
why it helps the the contractors were out there I didn't
realize how tough it is
until now that I'm building something how tough it really
is to get something
built it's hard it's hard it takes a lot of time and it's
expensive so you ain't
Commissioner back
it's been streamlined very well and you know a lot of
shortcuts taken and given
the director some options that would normally come before
the committee so I
see a lot of good stuff in it I think Commissioner Ellis
could attest to that
too she's seen it too so looking forward to it the fact
that we're dealing with
something here right now that we could probably change
before we actually make
this full DDC rewrite change I hope we can get that in the
mix too before it's
done we'll see anybody else okay well then at 622 we'll
close our work session
and we'll reconvene for a very short meeting in public
session good evening
and welcome to the city of Denton planning and zoning
Commission meeting
for June 27 2018 this meeting has been duly posted and we
do have a quorum
present and will call us to order at 632 our first order of
business will be to
stand and give the pledge the US and the Texas flag
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America and to the
Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivis
ible with liberty and
justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to
the Texas one state
under God one individual
just as a point of order we do not have any minutes this
evening so we will move
on to our public hearing section we have item a this item
has been withdrawn so
I understand we will not open that then okay and then our
item B was requested
by the applicant to be continued and I don't know if we
have one citizen that's
here this evening and I don't know if you'd like for us to
open the public
hearing and do the presentation and for you to speak and I
don't know if Cindy
may have had okay I think what we'll do in in essence of
saving time and
presentation is I will go ahead and call you for we'll open
it but we won't do
the presentation and we will save that for when we have a
full Commission and
the applicants here and the chair will just ask for a
motion for continued do
we have a date certain on that okay the date on that will
be July the is it
11th the next meeting okay all right so this chair I'm
going to open z 17 - 0 0
2 8 B and we'll look for a motion for continuance
Commissioner Beck to date certain of July 11th okay
Commissioner Zell second we have a first and a second for
continuance any further
discussion seeing none will call for a vote on the board
that motion is going to carry five to zero that will move
us since that open
is being that item is being left open that will move us on
to our matrix for
this evening Commissioner Beck thank you chair yeah Richard
if we could get
something lined up to discuss zone change I think the
process is we started
here suggesting certain zone changes this one that we would
have been dealing
with today would be a good one to start with but I also
wanted to make sure that
we focus another one I mentioned earlier when we were
dealing with a project of
380 where you had in our two out there and that being a
major highway now we
need to rezone some of that and then after dealing with
this project at the
last PNC meeting that little parcel of land there on the
corner of Myrtle and
Eagle we probably should go ahead and take that out of dr1
and put that in DCG
it doesn't make any sense to leave that out there by itself
so if we could start
that process I'm talking about these zone changes like to
see it start that
as soon as possible since we're dealing with this code
rewrite and try and get it
in there
what I'll do is I'll just prepare an agenda item for work
for work work
session and we'll go over some of those areas as well as
some of the other areas
that have annexed in and have been in kind of that holding
pattern similar to
this one where we had annexed along the rights of way it
was 500 feet in I think
was the distance where part of the property has a zoning
designation another
part of it doesn't and so we'll start to look at a number
of those and okay along
those lines now what Chairman strange brought up in the
work session about the
prospects of future land use map - now is that something
that the city staff will
work on and then bring before we would bring that in what I
'll do is I'll bring
that in conjunction with because a lot of those areas have
that rural
designation now so that's one thing that we're starting to
look at is in addition
to the zoning map update also updating the future land use
map okay good deal
thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair May 23rd
meeting I brought up the
sewer issue at industrial and Hickory downtown it's in the
meetings of that
minute it's not on our matrix nor have I gotten a response
about it so I just
thought I'd bring it up again I'll make sure you appreciate
it thanks
Commissioner result thank you chair I wanted to start an
investigation or at
least a look into the creation of a historic preservation
fund for the city
the reason and the context behind it would be the last
zoning case we had in
in regards to the case on Carroll Eagle Myrtle maple area
we had a disagreement
about protecting those old homes and I think I would like
to explore ways in
which we can understand where we want to protect historic
and old homes but not
necessarily every old home and didn't be kept and so and
talking to Roman thought
about the idea of understanding those homes are old but
maybe there's a way to
like a developer pay in to a store preservation fund they
could proceed to
the project and still be challenged to advocate and protect
areas of the city
so those other municipalities use it in such ways to either
resignage and other
development or used to protect other homes in the area but
a store
preservation fund could hopefully identify areas in which
you want to
financially support the protection of those homes but also
allow developers
the ability to redevelop places in which there are old
homes but not maybe not
necessarily where the city wants to protect the historic
district in its
totality and so I'm happy to send you articles about how
those funds are being
used but I just would like to see how if it's possible to
look into that
possibility
I'll throw one more on just for good measure this evening
it kind of dovetails
on what some of the other commissioners have said is I
mentioned it before and I
don't know that we've ever asked for it to be a work
session I think it would be
helpful for our Commission to get some background of what
development
redevelopment whatever term you want to put on it has
economic impact on our
city I would venture none to hope it doesn't anybody take
it it's only I
have adventure there's no one on Commission besides me that
has any idea
how much fees where those fees go how many fees on the
projects that are
coming before us and that's not ever part of a presentation
so for example
the the deal for tonight but if you ask anybody wouldn't
under wouldn't know
that there's probably four million dollars worth of impact
fees building
permit fees coming in on that deal you're gonna go from a
piece of property
that's probably on the tax rolls that almost nothing and
when the houses are
on it's probably a hundred million dollar piece of property
out there now
and how much impact that makes on providing funds to our
city roads
sidewalks sales tax property tax that's not ever even part
of the presentations
that come before us I know there's been some discussion
previously about that
and I think that's something that is a I've said it before
is a missing piece
of the presentations that staff makes when they come up and
we can then say
you know what there's a lot of factors that we consider but
that's never a
factor that's part of the presentations so I would throw
that in and it may not
be something you want to dive into but I would just throw
that out again no
actually I think it's I think it's important I think I
mentioned a couple
maybe a couple meetings ago we were looking at sort of rev
ising our soon to
come or revised staff reports we have a not to get into an
appending application
but there but it's not a straightforward rezoning to single
-family there there
are some some challenges with it and how how the property
and structures are taxed
and and it's one of those that if you're just looking at it
as oh this is a
rezoning for single-family yes it's going to generate
although there are
some costs with serving a single family as opposed to
commercial from city
perspective but if it's a a different type of residential
unit that's not
that's taxed as personal property let's say obviously that
's a much different
impact to the city because now you'll have a lot of
residents assume two two
and a half per unit that aren't necessarily paying tax on
the improvement
because it's not counted as an improvement and so I even
had mentioned
it to the city manager about having I'm used to
particularly in rezoning seeing
an economic impact at least some some part of an analysis
and and so I think
you'll start to see those in the very near future at least
at least on a
rezoning level so there is that that that that snapshot of
one there are are
there potential costs to the city that that are that are
well beyond what what
that tax generation is but also what what does that what
does that mean I
think with the application tonight not to get into it too
much but one thing I
think if you'll see in that staff report this is one where
we we required the TIA
as part of the rezoning and just given the magnitude of
that project we thought
it was important because that's look that's what we
discussed every time is
traffic and the impacts and so I think knowing knowing now
what what it causes
as well as improvements that could be made and in having
that available for
you to make your decisions I think is paramount so for
these large projects I
think you'll start to see having more of that information
to make make a truly
informed decision well I would welcome that I think that's
a missing piece and
I welcome staff already having those discussions because I
think it's an
important part as those presentations are made for
everybody to consider and
then you have all the facts yes or no so anybody else okay
so at 645 we will
close this evening thank you everyone