1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Denton Planning and Zoning Commission work session for June 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,759 27th 2018. This 3 00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:09,570 meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum 4 00:00:09,570 --> 00:00:11,080 present and I will call us 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,560 to order at this time. Our first order of business will be 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,199 to receive 7 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:24,079 clarification of agenda items and I think we don't have 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:25,920 anything on minutes 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:31,329 so that will move us straight on to public hearings and I 10 00:00:31,329 --> 00:00:32,600 think Cindy 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,320 Jackson you'll come up I think there may be some 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,560 conversation about whether this 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,100 will continue or not and I think Richard asked if you would 14 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:42,200 go ahead and make 15 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,079 your presentation on this item if you would like. Well I 16 00:00:47,079 --> 00:00:48,079 think we're kind of 17 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:51,189 bouncing back and forth I hate to put you on the spot. Are 18 00:00:51,189 --> 00:00:51,960 you still able to 19 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,429 do that? I will give it my best it's only halfway prepared. 20 00:00:56,429 --> 00:00:57,240 What happened is 21 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,560 the applicant has requested to postpone to the next PNC 22 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,359 meeting which is July 23 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:08,319 11th or 7th. 7th or 11th I can't remember. It's the 11th 24 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:13,480 and so I did not complete 25 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,519 my presentation because I thought I wouldn't be making one. 26 00:01:16,519 --> 00:01:17,840 Well as much 27 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,640 experience as you have I bet half preparation will be 28 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:23,239 superior. 29 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:27,760 So well let's give it a go here. 30 00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:34,010 And you got some long timers here so we will hopefully make 31 00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:37,680 it easy on you too. 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:53,079 Oh I know why that's not my login. 33 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:02,799 I think they're coming right now to regroup and turn the 34 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:05,840 projector on and 35 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,800 scramble and... 36 00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:24,250 Why isn't it letting me log in? I switched user. Well while 37 00:02:24,250 --> 00:02:25,639 y'all are 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,479 preparing as chair and most members I know fellow 39 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:32,520 commissioners usually are 40 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,120 pretty well prepared. I'm sure everybody's reviewed the 41 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,039 backup material 42 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:40,439 are there any questions that we could at least get started 43 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:41,360 while we're waiting 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:46,159 for things to boot up that are particular interest? 45 00:02:46,159 --> 00:02:47,280 Commissioner Beck. 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,830 Thank you chair. The only thing I have is what I brought up 47 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:52,039 a while ago is the 48 00:02:52,039 --> 00:02:56,139 existing zoning situation right now and how we might want 49 00:02:56,139 --> 00:02:57,479 to take a look at that 50 00:02:57,479 --> 00:03:00,900 in the future because I believe the mobility plan shows 51 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:02,000 Sherman is going to 52 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,030 be expanded eventually. So anyway but I know that doesn't 53 00:03:06,030 --> 00:03:07,360 deal directly with this. 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,900 More of a global issue rather than specific to this one. 55 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:13,400 Okay. 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,800 The thing that crossed my mind is we probably wouldn't even 57 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,560 be considering an 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,000 overlay on this if that in our forward zoning wasn't there. 59 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,639 So anyway for what that's worth. 60 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:30,590 Okay. Any questions? Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair. 61 00:03:30,590 --> 00:03:31,919 We last time we 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,409 approved the neighborhood north of Louisville 288, I think 63 00:03:35,409 --> 00:03:37,319 west of here. There's issue about 64 00:03:37,319 --> 00:03:41,680 fire access and the routes fire would take and on the north 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:42,800 side not all the 66 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,849 stations have an ambulance and so I was just curious about 67 00:03:46,849 --> 00:03:49,199 the city's look at 68 00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:53,270 adding so many houses to make sure that the current fire 69 00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:54,840 infrastructure there is 70 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,030 an ambulance and response appropriate to the number of 71 00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:00,960 houses going up north. 72 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,789 That was looked at actually during annexation and the fire 73 00:04:03,789 --> 00:04:05,039 department did say they do 74 00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:09,530 have a fire station that is close enough by that they can 75 00:04:09,530 --> 00:04:11,520 maintain the standard 76 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,590 response times that you see all over the city. Okay. They 77 00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:16,759 've just rebuilt 78 00:04:16,759 --> 00:04:19,160 the new one right there and I think you're right I think it 79 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:19,839 was a smaller 80 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:27,160 station that enlarged it now. Okay. Commissioner are you 81 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:27,839 ready to go Cindy? 82 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,259 Yeah well I'll answer a question. Commissioner Ellis I 83 00:04:30,259 --> 00:04:31,319 recognize you. We'll see where you go. 84 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:35,120 Thank you chair. You know my questions revolved around the 85 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,339 proportionality study that was mentioned a couple times 86 00:04:37,339 --> 00:04:37,879 about the road 87 00:04:37,879 --> 00:04:41,290 improvement that's due. Who prepares that? When does the 88 00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:42,680 developer know what their 89 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,560 proportion is? During platting and it's actually prepared 90 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,399 by the engineering 91 00:04:47,399 --> 00:04:51,370 department. They have specific formulas that are based on 92 00:04:51,370 --> 00:04:52,920 the number of houses in 93 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,170 the development, the number of trips anticipated, the type 94 00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:57,079 of roads that are 95 00:04:57,079 --> 00:05:00,920 involved and you kind of combine all that together with 96 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,120 they've got formulas 97 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,360 and that gives them their proportionality. And it's time of 98 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:06,920 platting you said? 99 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,680 Pardon me? Don't know time of platting? That's correct. 100 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,720 Okay. Commissioner Sanchez. 101 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,600 It talks about that when it was brought that property was 102 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:19,199 brought in it 103 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:23,720 was brought under RD 5X as a placeholder but yet then it 104 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,000 goes on to saying it's 105 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,689 it's subject to all this all the restrictions. As a place 106 00:05:28,689 --> 00:05:29,680 holder... Yes it is. 107 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,259 And okay so it gets brought in there but that doesn't 108 00:05:32,259 --> 00:05:33,600 necessarily mean when it 109 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,670 gets at a place holding position that it's going to 110 00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:40,839 influence what future 111 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,529 zoning will occur does it? Well the placeholder doesn't 112 00:05:44,529 --> 00:05:45,560 influence future 113 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,360 zoning. The placeholder is just as it is. Theoretically 114 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,680 they're zoned 115 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,089 RD 5X however in reality they don't have a zoning 116 00:05:54,089 --> 00:05:55,399 designation that's just a 117 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:59,589 placeholder. If the applicant wants to develop without 118 00:05:59,589 --> 00:06:00,800 going through a zoning 119 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,439 all they can do is what is a permitted in the RD 5 district 120 00:06:05,439 --> 00:06:07,839 . Okay because one of 121 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,720 the things that I noticed is it refers back to that that it 122 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,079 doesn't meet you 123 00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:18,620 know it's the new to zoning is does not meet that RD 5 or 124 00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:19,600 talks about RD 5. 125 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,860 It doesn't meet the rural areas land use designation. You 126 00:06:23,860 --> 00:06:24,800 've got your land use 127 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:30,439 designation which just it sets the goals and policies for 128 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:32,079 the city has for that 129 00:06:32,079 --> 00:06:35,689 area at the time the future land use plan was written and 130 00:06:35,689 --> 00:06:36,680 then you've got your 131 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,750 placeholder zoning which is a totally different item which 132 00:06:40,750 --> 00:06:41,199 tells them 133 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:46,129 exactly what people can do on the property at that certain 134 00:06:46,129 --> 00:06:47,959 time. You look 135 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:52,860 at the future land use map as a roadmap for zoning and land 136 00:06:52,860 --> 00:06:53,959 use and each 137 00:06:53,959 --> 00:06:59,370 designation of the future land use map indicates a range of 138 00:06:59,370 --> 00:07:01,079 zoning districts 139 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:05,670 that are expect anticipated to be put in that area. So for 140 00:07:05,670 --> 00:07:07,519 example you've got your 141 00:07:07,519 --> 00:07:13,079 low density low density residential that is expected to be 142 00:07:13,079 --> 00:07:15,959 like NR 1 NR 2 NR 3. 143 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:20,399 You've got moderate density which you would see NR 6 NR 4 144 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:21,360 and then you've got 145 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,240 and NR 12 and then you've got high density which is NRMU. 146 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,639 All right but as 147 00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:31,339 the city is expanding those those rural areas especially at 148 00:07:31,339 --> 00:07:32,519 the edge of the city 149 00:07:32,519 --> 00:07:36,379 I have you have to be concerned at a much higher density 150 00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:36,920 than what you're 151 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,170 and what you're looking at here. Exactly exactly when when 152 00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:42,240 the future land use 153 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,259 was created a few years ago we still had area at large 154 00:07:45,259 --> 00:07:46,720 tracks of land within the 155 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,339 loop within the loop to develop. Those those are filling up 156 00:07:51,339 --> 00:07:52,480 rapidly and we're 157 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:58,240 seeing developers now move outside the loop and when the 158 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,399 the Denton plan was 159 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:03,769 conceived how many years ago now three years ago they didn 160 00:08:03,769 --> 00:08:05,879 't anticipate that it 161 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:08,319 would move so quickly the development would move so quickly 162 00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:08,720 so we're gonna 163 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,620 have to take a look at that again. I'll follow up on 164 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:14,399 Commissioner Sanchez point 165 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:18,740 with with the rezone that's currently being discussed what 166 00:08:18,740 --> 00:08:20,279 is that area being 167 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:24,610 considered now by the city? We haven't got to that point 168 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:26,600 yet. Okay. We and from what 169 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,180 we've seen we have we have seen an awful lot of interest 170 00:08:30,180 --> 00:08:31,360 from residential 171 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,799 developers for this area an awful lot in fact I've received 172 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:35,539 another zoning 173 00:08:35,539 --> 00:08:37,929 application we received another zoning application that I 174 00:08:37,929 --> 00:08:38,799 was assigned to this 175 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:43,110 week we're just up the street for residential so it's 176 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:44,360 getting ready to 177 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,600 just explode up there. So that that is going to be looked 178 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,799 at then with the new 179 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:56,200 rezoning that's coming in the well I don't know I haven't 180 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,159 really looked at 181 00:08:57,159 --> 00:09:04,059 the map that closely yet. Yes and no and I say it only if 182 00:09:04,059 --> 00:09:05,159 if they are going 183 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:10,879 through a rezoning what we've done now is sort of it's not 184 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:12,000 like we want anybody 185 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,360 to hedge their bet on anything so we're sort of blacking 186 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,559 them out for now um 187 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,230 however if they have if they've just gone through a rez 188 00:09:18,230 --> 00:09:19,200 oning and it and that 189 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,360 it has gotten approved we're not looking to change that as 190 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,320 part of the the 191 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,820 rezoning to something then that would be inconsistent with 192 00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:28,679 they would have just 193 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,080 gotten approved you know six months prior. Well I agree 194 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:32,360 with that and I 195 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,850 appreciate the additional information I get I guess from 196 00:09:36,850 --> 00:09:38,279 from my point of view 197 00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:43,200 is we all understand that things are changing yes we're 198 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:43,879 aware that they're 199 00:09:43,879 --> 00:09:47,990 changing and that area is probably not going to be in our 200 00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:49,799 one we've probably 201 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:54,240 passed the point that that's in our one and our two is 202 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,720 appropriate type zoning 203 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,309 and so the only reason that I bring it up is for 204 00:09:58,309 --> 00:10:00,120 consideration that we look at 205 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,210 it with an open mind that that area is probably going to be 206 00:10:05,210 --> 00:10:05,879 a higher density 207 00:10:05,879 --> 00:10:10,169 you've got the CH Collinson complex there DIST owns the 208 00:10:10,169 --> 00:10:11,100 property to the 209 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:14,519 north of it for a future school and the likelihood is going 210 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:15,799 to be that that area 211 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:19,200 is going to develop at a greater density than in our one or 212 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,279 in our two and 213 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:24,210 although I'm going to be off the Commission for long I do 214 00:10:24,210 --> 00:10:25,120 have sympathy 215 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,519 for my fellow Commissioners instead of having to do rezones 216 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:29,360 on every one of 217 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,590 these parcels as this goes on maybe it would be prudent to 218 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:34,879 look at that area 219 00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:39,679 and go maybe the the boundary needs to move a few thousand 220 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:40,879 feet farther to the 221 00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:45,070 north and yes we can keep that as in our one in our two 222 00:10:45,070 --> 00:10:46,960 placeholder and now this 223 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,740 becomes moderate residential and we don't have 20 rezoning 224 00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:54,320 cases on property 225 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,620 that everybody recognizes between Sherman and Stewart and 226 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:00,600 missile base road is 227 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,649 probably going to become a more moderate density 228 00:11:05,649 --> 00:11:09,039 residential area so just as 229 00:11:09,039 --> 00:11:13,919 suggestion from an old timer that's on his way out the door 230 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:19,519 so I didn't know I 231 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,080 was going I asked if I didn't know I was going to make a 232 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,320 presentation so I've got 233 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,009 my presentation ready but I didn't write it so well I'm all 234 00:11:27,009 --> 00:11:28,320 that Richard speak to 235 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,340 that I think there was a little bit of confusion as to 236 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:32,679 whether we were the 237 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,690 applicant might want to try to go forward since there were 238 00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:35,320 actually going 239 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,720 to be five rather than four I think I think that was a 240 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,600 concern so I think you 241 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,919 may have an update I did reach out to to the the applicant 242 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:44,960 and he did say they 243 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,860 would still ask you know still wanted to do the postpon 244 00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:48,919 ement to the the 245 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:51,549 continuance to the next to the next meeting I think he was 246 00:11:51,549 --> 00:11:52,559 heading back to 247 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,990 the to the Dallas area and had requested it and wanted to 248 00:11:54,990 --> 00:11:56,320 at least have the at 249 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,730 least attempt again to have the full Commission in 250 00:11:59,730 --> 00:12:02,000 attendance okay with that 251 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,409 in mind since we do have I guess a couple commissioners 252 00:12:05,409 --> 00:12:06,720 probably prudent 253 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,129 just to hold on the presentation and let everybody have an 254 00:12:10,129 --> 00:12:11,000 opportunity or would 255 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,919 you want to represent it in a station again it's probably 256 00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:16,480 maybe better to hold 257 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,159 it that way in case there's a discussion that somebody's 258 00:12:19,159 --> 00:12:20,200 when we get to the next 259 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:26,149 meeting if there were some points that were made that maybe 260 00:12:26,149 --> 00:12:27,039 yeah it's better to 261 00:12:27,039 --> 00:12:29,759 have everyone involved in the discussion so they can hear 262 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:33,519 all points okay sorry to 263 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:36,500 start and stop but I think that might be prudent if they 264 00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:37,799 wanted to go ahead and 265 00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:45,580 hear it tonight so thanks for trying to go quickly I don't 266 00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:46,399 think we have really 267 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:52,480 anything else to to cover unless there's an announcement or 268 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:53,200 something else that 269 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,389 we need to hear about I can add one I just wanted to kind 270 00:12:57,389 --> 00:12:58,360 of talk a little bit 271 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,830 about some of these areas that are designated rural on the 272 00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:02,720 on the future 273 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,409 land use map we had a discussion I guess the last two 274 00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:08,840 Fridays at the Development 275 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,750 Code Review Committee meeting and we were talking initially 276 00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:13,519 the discussion 277 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:17,070 started about the process for for doing this rezoning and 278 00:13:17,070 --> 00:13:18,360 and and as we talked 279 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,299 through it was became kind of evident that as much as its 280 00:13:21,299 --> 00:13:22,320 process it's also 281 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,389 policy and and in addition to looking at at the zoning map 282 00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:27,519 as part of this 283 00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:31,279 exercise we also need to look at the lanes map and so we're 284 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:32,279 sort of we agree 285 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:39,360 these areas probably aren't rural anymore and in addition I 286 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:39,879 think I think 287 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,279 Jerry made the point that even our you know we have the in 288 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:44,279 our ETJ we have the 289 00:13:44,279 --> 00:13:46,529 division one and division two we've really never have 290 00:13:46,529 --> 00:13:47,440 adjusted those lines 291 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,110 and so I think now is sort of a good time to really as we 292 00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:50,919 're doing the 293 00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:55,110 housekeeping is look at everything and and both from from a 294 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:56,320 from a practical 295 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,700 point of view but also from a policy perspective of hey 296 00:13:58,700 --> 00:13:59,639 there is some there 297 00:13:59,639 --> 00:14:02,470 is some process associated with it but how do we how do we 298 00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:03,279 really see ourselves 299 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,779 growing and so those are those are some of the items that 300 00:14:05,779 --> 00:14:06,799 we're going through 301 00:14:06,799 --> 00:14:09,399 now so so it's sort of in the works the only other 302 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:11,080 announcement I wanted to make 303 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,519 is Monday was my first official day here as a city employee 304 00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:26,330 I'll just jump on and and echo I think it's prudent for 305 00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:29,559 staff to be having 306 00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:33,929 those types of discussions and I'll just add my perspective 307 00:14:33,929 --> 00:14:35,240 as as being in the 308 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,039 building and development community I know sometimes the 309 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:40,360 tendency is we want 310 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,049 everybody to come before us and see all the rezoning's but 311 00:14:44,049 --> 00:14:45,200 the amount of time 312 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:50,600 and money that it takes to do that versus areas that are 313 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,279 kind of no-brainer 314 00:14:52,279 --> 00:14:56,169 that we we understand that's what it needs to be I think it 315 00:14:56,169 --> 00:14:56,759 's prudent from 316 00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,370 our city standpoint from a time not only recent resources 317 00:15:01,370 --> 00:15:02,960 of the private side of 318 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,360 these deals but the public side everybody having to come 319 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:06,679 for these 320 00:15:06,679 --> 00:15:09,769 meetings for these types of things all staffs work to do 321 00:15:09,769 --> 00:15:11,639 this versus hey there 322 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:14,110 is a no-brainer that area needs to be moderate residential 323 00:15:14,110 --> 00:15:15,039 where somebody can 324 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:18,909 come and actually buy it and bring a plat rather than they 325 00:15:18,909 --> 00:15:20,120 spend six months 326 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,090 or longer doing a contemplating a rezone whether they want 327 00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:25,639 to do it or not 328 00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:28,070 whether they can get it zoned or not get it zoned whether 329 00:15:28,070 --> 00:15:29,120 it's a viable project 330 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,090 because whether they can get zoning or not versus it is and 331 00:15:33,090 --> 00:15:34,159 while we're sitting 332 00:15:34,159 --> 00:15:36,820 here I know there's a lot of discussion about providing 333 00:15:36,820 --> 00:15:38,120 housing and affordable 334 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,519 housing and where people are going to live it seems that 335 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:42,960 that would be a good 336 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,379 discussion to have to go ahead in some of these areas while 337 00:15:46,379 --> 00:15:47,360 we're doing the 338 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,940 rezone and get that done when there is a demand you can 339 00:15:51,940 --> 00:15:53,240 bring product to the 340 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,820 market quicker to meet the demand versus you start now and 341 00:15:56,820 --> 00:15:58,039 it you may miss the 342 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:00,570 cycle you may get it rezoned and platted and we're now in a 343 00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:01,639 downturn and nobody 344 00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:05,200 has a need and now you've got lots sitting out that are 345 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,440 approved and you 346 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,620 could have used them two years ago and put people in them 347 00:16:08,620 --> 00:16:09,399 and now the deals 348 00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:12,929 dead for five or six more years till it starts back up 349 00:16:12,929 --> 00:16:16,000 again so again I would 350 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,690 just echo applaud staff for having those kinds of 351 00:16:19,690 --> 00:16:21,200 discussions because I think 352 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,600 it's prudent not only for the private but also the public 353 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,759 side and I think it's a 354 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:30,200 win for everybody so anybody else have a comment or 355 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,159 question before we close work 356 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:37,360 session and reconvene oh yeah Commissioner Sanchez I just 357 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:37,600 want to 358 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,750 reiterate what you said I think it's important for people 359 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:41,759 to stay ahead of 360 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:44,690 the game you know I had and started looking ahead rather 361 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:45,679 than always playing 362 00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:48,710 catch-up and I think you did a good you did a good 363 00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:50,000 presentation of explaining 364 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,799 why it helps the the contractors were out there I didn't 365 00:16:54,799 --> 00:16:56,720 realize how tough it is 366 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,830 until now that I'm building something how tough it really 367 00:16:59,830 --> 00:17:00,639 is to get something 368 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:04,829 built it's hard it's hard it takes a lot of time and it's 369 00:17:04,829 --> 00:17:08,279 expensive so you ain't 370 00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:11,640 Commissioner back 371 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,319 it's been streamlined very well and you know a lot of 372 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,440 shortcuts taken and given 373 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,529 the director some options that would normally come before 374 00:17:27,529 --> 00:17:28,480 the committee so I 375 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,170 see a lot of good stuff in it I think Commissioner Ellis 376 00:17:32,170 --> 00:17:33,160 could attest to that 377 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,519 too she's seen it too so looking forward to it the fact 378 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:38,480 that we're dealing with 379 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,880 something here right now that we could probably change 380 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,000 before we actually make 381 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,569 this full DDC rewrite change I hope we can get that in the 382 00:17:46,569 --> 00:17:47,799 mix too before it's 383 00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:58,019 done we'll see anybody else okay well then at 622 we'll 384 00:17:58,019 --> 00:17:59,240 close our work session 385 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,920 and we'll reconvene for a very short meeting in public 386 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:12,799 session good evening 387 00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:15,200 and welcome to the city of Denton planning and zoning 388 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,200 Commission meeting 389 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,359 for June 27 2018 this meeting has been duly posted and we 390 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:22,119 do have a quorum 391 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,930 present and will call us to order at 632 our first order of 392 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:27,720 business will be to 393 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,119 stand and give the pledge the US and the Texas flag 394 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:37,650 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 395 00:18:37,650 --> 00:18:39,599 America and to the 396 00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:44,400 Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivis 397 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,000 ible with liberty and 398 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:52,900 justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to 399 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,160 the Texas one state 400 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,119 under God one individual 401 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,470 just as a point of order we do not have any minutes this 402 00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:11,559 evening so we will move 403 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:18,500 on to our public hearing section we have item a this item 404 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,000 has been withdrawn so 405 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,440 I understand we will not open that then okay and then our 406 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,680 item B was requested 407 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:35,009 by the applicant to be continued and I don't know if we 408 00:19:35,009 --> 00:19:37,480 have one citizen that's 409 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,240 here this evening and I don't know if you'd like for us to 410 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:41,079 open the public 411 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,950 hearing and do the presentation and for you to speak and I 412 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:45,799 don't know if Cindy 413 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:50,880 may have had okay I think what we'll do in in essence of 414 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,400 saving time and 415 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,309 presentation is I will go ahead and call you for we'll open 416 00:19:56,309 --> 00:19:57,480 it but we won't do 417 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,880 the presentation and we will save that for when we have a 418 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:01,920 full Commission and 419 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,369 the applicants here and the chair will just ask for a 420 00:20:05,369 --> 00:20:07,039 motion for continued do 421 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:10,960 we have a date certain on that okay the date on that will 422 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,599 be July the is it 423 00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:19,519 11th the next meeting okay all right so this chair I'm 424 00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:24,519 going to open z 17 - 0 0 425 00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:32,279 2 8 B and we'll look for a motion for continuance 426 00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:45,160 Commissioner Beck to date certain of July 11th okay 427 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,480 Commissioner Zell second we have a first and a second for 428 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,279 continuance any further 429 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:59,160 discussion seeing none will call for a vote on the board 430 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:10,869 that motion is going to carry five to zero that will move 431 00:21:10,869 --> 00:21:14,720 us since that open 432 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,119 is being that item is being left open that will move us on 433 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,160 to our matrix for 434 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,400 this evening Commissioner Beck thank you chair yeah Richard 435 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,680 if we could get 436 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:25,680 something lined up to discuss zone change I think the 437 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:31,720 process is we started 438 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,710 here suggesting certain zone changes this one that we would 439 00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:37,480 have been dealing 440 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,190 with today would be a good one to start with but I also 441 00:21:40,190 --> 00:21:42,839 wanted to make sure that 442 00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:46,849 we focus another one I mentioned earlier when we were 443 00:21:46,849 --> 00:21:48,960 dealing with a project of 444 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,759 380 where you had in our two out there and that being a 445 00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:55,640 major highway now we 446 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,589 need to rezone some of that and then after dealing with 447 00:22:00,589 --> 00:22:02,400 this project at the 448 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,230 last PNC meeting that little parcel of land there on the 449 00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:06,359 corner of Myrtle and 450 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,759 Eagle we probably should go ahead and take that out of dr1 451 00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:11,160 and put that in DCG 452 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,720 it doesn't make any sense to leave that out there by itself 453 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,160 so if we could start 454 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,099 that process I'm talking about these zone changes like to 455 00:22:21,099 --> 00:22:22,079 see it start that 456 00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:25,490 as soon as possible since we're dealing with this code 457 00:22:25,490 --> 00:22:26,279 rewrite and try and get it 458 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:28,279 in there 459 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:32,200 what I'll do is I'll just prepare an agenda item for work 460 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,200 for work work 461 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,549 session and we'll go over some of those areas as well as 462 00:22:35,549 --> 00:22:36,759 some of the other areas 463 00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:40,369 that have annexed in and have been in kind of that holding 464 00:22:40,369 --> 00:22:42,160 pattern similar to 465 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,279 this one where we had annexed along the rights of way it 466 00:22:46,279 --> 00:22:47,799 was 500 feet in I think 467 00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:51,210 was the distance where part of the property has a zoning 468 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:52,200 designation another 469 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,430 part of it doesn't and so we'll start to look at a number 470 00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:57,559 of those and okay along 471 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:01,319 those lines now what Chairman strange brought up in the 472 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:03,440 work session about the 473 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,450 prospects of future land use map - now is that something 474 00:23:06,450 --> 00:23:07,799 that the city staff will 475 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:10,359 work on and then bring before we would bring that in what I 476 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,240 'll do is I'll bring 477 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,210 that in conjunction with because a lot of those areas have 478 00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:14,839 that rural 479 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,289 designation now so that's one thing that we're starting to 480 00:23:17,289 --> 00:23:18,240 look at is in addition 481 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,220 to the zoning map update also updating the future land use 482 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:23,440 map okay good deal 483 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,599 thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair May 23rd 484 00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:29,480 meeting I brought up the 485 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,539 sewer issue at industrial and Hickory downtown it's in the 486 00:23:32,539 --> 00:23:33,759 meetings of that 487 00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:36,509 minute it's not on our matrix nor have I gotten a response 488 00:23:36,509 --> 00:23:37,279 about it so I just 489 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:39,390 thought I'd bring it up again I'll make sure you appreciate 490 00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:41,440 it thanks 491 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,880 Commissioner result thank you chair I wanted to start an 492 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,079 investigation or at 493 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:51,599 least a look into the creation of a historic preservation 494 00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:53,240 fund for the city 495 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,039 the reason and the context behind it would be the last 496 00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:59,680 zoning case we had in 497 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,680 in regards to the case on Carroll Eagle Myrtle maple area 498 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,359 we had a disagreement 499 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,460 about protecting those old homes and I think I would like 500 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:11,519 to explore ways in 501 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:17,059 which we can understand where we want to protect historic 502 00:24:17,059 --> 00:24:19,759 and old homes but not 503 00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:23,759 necessarily every old home and didn't be kept and so and 504 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:26,680 talking to Roman thought 505 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,619 about the idea of understanding those homes are old but 506 00:24:29,619 --> 00:24:30,200 maybe there's a way to 507 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,660 like a developer pay in to a store preservation fund they 508 00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:34,680 could proceed to 509 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,529 the project and still be challenged to advocate and protect 510 00:24:39,529 --> 00:24:40,519 areas of the city 511 00:24:40,519 --> 00:24:45,079 so those other municipalities use it in such ways to either 512 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:45,960 resignage and other 513 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,869 development or used to protect other homes in the area but 514 00:24:48,869 --> 00:24:49,519 a store 515 00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:52,549 preservation fund could hopefully identify areas in which 516 00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:53,160 you want to 517 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,740 financially support the protection of those homes but also 518 00:24:56,740 --> 00:24:57,880 allow developers 519 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,750 the ability to redevelop places in which there are old 520 00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:03,359 homes but not maybe not 521 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,859 necessarily where the city wants to protect the historic 522 00:25:05,859 --> 00:25:06,599 district in its 523 00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:10,180 totality and so I'm happy to send you articles about how 524 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:11,000 those funds are being 525 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,819 used but I just would like to see how if it's possible to 526 00:25:14,819 --> 00:25:16,200 look into that 527 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,000 possibility 528 00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:28,759 I'll throw one more on just for good measure this evening 529 00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:30,240 it kind of dovetails 530 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,650 on what some of the other commissioners have said is I 531 00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:35,119 mentioned it before and I 532 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,990 don't know that we've ever asked for it to be a work 533 00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:40,160 session I think it would be 534 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:46,490 helpful for our Commission to get some background of what 535 00:25:46,490 --> 00:25:47,759 development 536 00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:51,170 redevelopment whatever term you want to put on it has 537 00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:52,440 economic impact on our 538 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,849 city I would venture none to hope it doesn't anybody take 539 00:25:57,849 --> 00:25:58,359 it it's only I 540 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,970 have adventure there's no one on Commission besides me that 541 00:26:00,970 --> 00:26:01,559 has any idea 542 00:26:01,559 --> 00:26:08,119 how much fees where those fees go how many fees on the 543 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,599 projects that are 544 00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:13,319 coming before us and that's not ever part of a presentation 545 00:26:13,319 --> 00:26:14,640 so for example 546 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,869 the the deal for tonight but if you ask anybody wouldn't 547 00:26:17,869 --> 00:26:18,640 under wouldn't know 548 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,049 that there's probably four million dollars worth of impact 549 00:26:22,049 --> 00:26:23,000 fees building 550 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,480 permit fees coming in on that deal you're gonna go from a 551 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,480 piece of property 552 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,309 that's probably on the tax rolls that almost nothing and 553 00:26:30,309 --> 00:26:31,279 when the houses are 554 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:34,109 on it's probably a hundred million dollar piece of property 555 00:26:34,109 --> 00:26:34,960 out there now 556 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:41,200 and how much impact that makes on providing funds to our 557 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,480 city roads 558 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:48,710 sidewalks sales tax property tax that's not ever even part 559 00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:50,279 of the presentations 560 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:52,890 that come before us I know there's been some discussion 561 00:26:52,890 --> 00:26:54,039 previously about that 562 00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:58,519 and I think that's something that is a I've said it before 563 00:26:58,519 --> 00:26:59,799 is a missing piece 564 00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:04,079 of the presentations that staff makes when they come up and 565 00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:05,200 we can then say 566 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,460 you know what there's a lot of factors that we consider but 567 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:09,240 that's never a 568 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,049 factor that's part of the presentations so I would throw 569 00:27:13,049 --> 00:27:14,599 that in and it may not 570 00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:18,509 be something you want to dive into but I would just throw 571 00:27:18,509 --> 00:27:20,559 that out again no 572 00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:23,319 actually I think it's I think it's important I think I 573 00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:24,440 mentioned a couple 574 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,210 maybe a couple meetings ago we were looking at sort of rev 575 00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:29,559 ising our soon to 576 00:27:29,559 --> 00:27:33,950 come or revised staff reports we have a not to get into an 577 00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:35,680 appending application 578 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,359 but there but it's not a straightforward rezoning to single 579 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:41,559 -family there there 580 00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:45,680 are some some challenges with it and how how the property 581 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,519 and structures are taxed 582 00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:51,390 and and it's one of those that if you're just looking at it 583 00:27:51,390 --> 00:27:52,319 as oh this is a 584 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:55,369 rezoning for single-family yes it's going to generate 585 00:27:55,369 --> 00:27:56,519 although there are 586 00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:59,269 some costs with serving a single family as opposed to 587 00:27:59,269 --> 00:28:00,440 commercial from city 588 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,059 perspective but if it's a a different type of residential 589 00:28:05,059 --> 00:28:06,039 unit that's not 590 00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:09,839 that's taxed as personal property let's say obviously that 591 00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:10,880 's a much different 592 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,400 impact to the city because now you'll have a lot of 593 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,720 residents assume two two 594 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,410 and a half per unit that aren't necessarily paying tax on 595 00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:21,119 the improvement 596 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,519 because it's not counted as an improvement and so I even 597 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:26,240 had mentioned 598 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,950 it to the city manager about having I'm used to 599 00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:31,440 particularly in rezoning seeing 600 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,319 an economic impact at least some some part of an analysis 601 00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:37,720 and and so I think 602 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,589 you'll start to see those in the very near future at least 603 00:28:41,589 --> 00:28:42,559 at least on a 604 00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:48,319 rezoning level so there is that that that that snapshot of 605 00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:50,079 one there are are 606 00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:54,579 there potential costs to the city that that are that are 607 00:28:54,579 --> 00:28:56,119 well beyond what what 608 00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:59,670 that tax generation is but also what what does that what 609 00:28:59,670 --> 00:29:00,680 does that mean I 610 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,269 think with the application tonight not to get into it too 611 00:29:04,269 --> 00:29:05,559 much but one thing I 612 00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:09,750 think if you'll see in that staff report this is one where 613 00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:11,400 we we required the TIA 614 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,240 as part of the rezoning and just given the magnitude of 615 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,559 that project we thought 616 00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:21,829 it was important because that's look that's what we 617 00:29:21,829 --> 00:29:22,960 discussed every time is 618 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,369 traffic and the impacts and so I think knowing knowing now 619 00:29:26,369 --> 00:29:27,599 what what it causes 620 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:32,769 as well as improvements that could be made and in having 621 00:29:32,769 --> 00:29:33,720 that available for 622 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,430 you to make your decisions I think is paramount so for 623 00:29:36,430 --> 00:29:37,680 these large projects I 624 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,569 think you'll start to see having more of that information 625 00:29:40,569 --> 00:29:41,640 to make make a truly 626 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,039 informed decision well I would welcome that I think that's 627 00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:46,000 a missing piece and 628 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,740 I welcome staff already having those discussions because I 629 00:29:49,740 --> 00:29:50,440 think it's an 630 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,900 important part as those presentations are made for 631 00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:55,720 everybody to consider and 632 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:02,619 then you have all the facts yes or no so anybody else okay 633 00:30:02,619 --> 00:30:06,119 so at 645 we will 634 00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:09,480 close this evening thank you everyone