Jul 09, 2018 Historic Landmark Commission on 2018-07-09 5:30 PM

I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting to order. What a beautiful place for a wedding. Um, I will now call the meeting to order at 540, no 37, 537 p.m. If you will please stand for the pledges of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible. Where are you going? Where are you going? Alright, so we have two items for consideration today. The first is to consider approval of the Historic Landmark Commission meeting minutes from June 11th, 2018. Do we have any issues with the meeting minutes? I have one correction to make to the minutes. Okay. Um, on the second page where it's the paragraph about 60% of the way down that says, "Commissioner Anderson questioned how far into the building the entrance would be pushed." My real question was, the correction should say, "Commissioner Anderson questioned how far from the building front to the curb." Clif Tenders dated approximately nine feet. Okay. Any other corrections that need to be made? I move we approve the minutes as amended. Second. Great. Anything else? Let's go ahead and vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed say nay. Oops, sorry. I said aye and then I said nay because I heard you say I was an aye. Deb Conte is not sure which one she is approving. Just kidding. She has said aye and has recused her nay. Here we go. Thank you. So let's hold a public meeting and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with Section 35.7.6.8A for new dorm or windows at the home located at 2003 North Belle Avenue located between University and Sherman Drive. We'll have a presentation from Roman McAllen. Thank you, Roman. Okay. Thank you and thank you everyone for being here this evening. This is a house on in the Belle Avenue Conservation District. That's right. Although there's a sign there now that calls it the historic district that will be forthcoming. What we've got here is this house on the left here in the district. That's the shape of the district on the right. And this is a home. The owner of this home owns two homes next to each other and this one is to add these dormers to 2003 Belle Avenue. And from the historic resource survey of '96, it was actually given a low priority. You see the X there on the onto your right and then a 1925 Tudor style home with had synthetic siding on it. And this is that home today on the left. This is where the again its owner occupied and he's been had this home under construction a long time. I'm sure Commissioner Conte is very familiar with it and seen the work over the years. This fellow is an accomplished carpenter who's been working on it, his property for a while. So that's the front and the front elevation. This is if you were looking at the home walking down the sidewalk heading south, you would see it there on this left side. That darker patch you see there's actually the roof over a port crochet of the structure that he owns to the right of it, to the north. So I'm just going to take you up and down the street so you get a feel for how this project would affect the street. This is just coming across the street, again across the street. And this is the house he owns to the north, immediately to the north. And there's the profile on the north side of that. And then the one house to the south of the property is this pretty brick bungalow. Now this structure is two blocks to the north, two houses to the north. And this is even further than that, so three up. Now this is the street view. This is looking north, down North Bell. The streets have recently been repaved and recurbed very nicely. This is looking south from immediately in front of it. This is the home across the street. And to the south of that one house. One thing you see here are these nice old driveways that have not been paved. Then one house is diagonally across to the south, to the east and south. And then there's an intersection here. Remind me Deb, what street is that there? Roberts, I think. Roberts, that's right. Roberts tees into Bell. This is the view of the house. So the house is behind. If you were here, the work he is doing is behind that tree back there on that roof. And what he wants to do, if you were looking at the front of that house, so those trucks we saw were parked here in front. This, just a little bit of background, you see there's a stamp reviewed for code compliance in 2012. Prior to the existence of the Bell Avenue Conservation District is when he asked for a building permit to add one dormer. And it was approved. And so there's one dormer here that was approved for his building back then. But he wanted to do this right and come on in and get a certificate of appropriateness. Now he's not here this evening and that may be partially my fault. I didn't remind him, but we did know he was on there. So I can answer a lot of questions. I know Stephen a little bit. I should have another picture in here. Here it is. So if we were looking down from the north on that property, what happened here from a building perspective is that the, he's wanting to have that space be occupied in the second floor. And in order to finish that out properly and to meet fire code, he needs a means of egress. So that's the reason to do one dormer. But he wants to go ahead and bring more light into that space and make it more user friendly. Hence, he wants to add two more dormers going back there. And I think he's labeled these egress window in the front and then the other window there on the side. So now if you were on the sidewalk, you can understand that we were talking about some dormers that would be visible right back in there. On that side of the house. So that's the elevation. Let me go back. That's the north elevation of the house. So it'd be down in that side there. I'm recommending approval of as it's been applied for. I don't see how this harms this street in any way to make that home more occupiable, more useful and without a tremendous change to that sort of cottage condition that we see there. And I'll take any questions you have. I don't really have any questions other than dormer windows are certainly part of the design elements for this style house. Stephen has done tons of work on this property that we have approved as a commission. He is a former HLC commissioner himself. So he knows a lot about architecture and how to do things right. And I'm not surprised that he brought that back before us, even though he had prior approval. I didn't even think to ask the neighborhood about it. I thought he might have already gone and talked to our neighbors. So I don't have any other things to add to that. I don't see anybody on our street having any objection to this. I can't speak for them all, but I can't imagine. Was there any problem that you saw with any of this? No, none at all. Obviously, he's done a lot of restorative work on these properties. The one to the north looks like it. I can't wait for him to get started on that. So there's these are going on that side angle, right? That one, right. OK. Not on the part that faces. So you can see them from the street view, but they're not on the front. They don't face the street. Right. OK. What was the back of the picture of the drawing on the two outside dormers? You have a window and then what? Is that sighting? An awning window? To the right of the left window. It looks like there's a louver. It says vent. I don't know if he means it's a shutter or decorative purposes or is he he may actually have a vent there for maybe for cooling it down and after after the sun sets. I'm not sure. Because he's got a vent on both sides. He's got one on each side. They're both on the interior of the window. I'm sorry, John. I can't answer that one directly. I just wondered, they looked like they were both in and the windows were not centered. They were to the outside edges. I didn't know. You know, it's unusual, but this house is an asymmetric house. So I think it works pretty well for this architecture. Yeah, I think it would look it would look less appropriate if it was formal. Good point. Can you say that again? I'm sorry. If you want to flip back to the to this elevation. So the dormers are asymmetrical in their placement on the roof. And also the dormer on the left and the dormer on the right are also, you know, unusual that the window isn't centered in the in the dormer. Right. Which I think is the appropriate architectural style for this house because this is an asymmetric tutor. And if they had, you know, if he if he centered them or put a peak on the dormer, it would look inappropriate on this style of house. Yeah. He's got, you know, he's got shed roof dormers, which that 's the right. That's the right nomenclature for this building. Roman is he also adding that couple. I am not sure. I think it's there because he didn't he didn't ask for a permit for that. And I don't have a way of seeing that. Let's see. We'll do a quick check. I love the trees. They do make it hard to see parts of the architecture, though. Where is your drone image? That's my question. Yeah. Weaponized for people violating your see ways. Let's see that right. There's a lot going on. That's the right. I was going to say that is a lot going on. She said like right there. He has had this like this for years. This might be the coupe. It looks a lot of small. It's been under construction. Constant constant for the 20 years we've lived there. Yes. Yes. They look like they're in the appropriate spot. Yes, he does. Well, he lives next door and he restores this. I think the application states adding three dormers and doesn't say anything about a couple. Okay. So really that's all we can speak on. Okay. Are there any other questions for Roman? Would anybody like to entertain a motion? I'll make a motion to approve. All right, Dev has made an emotion to approve. Helen has seconded it. So it's open for discussion. Is there anything else we need to say about this before we take a vote? John? Yeah, I would just like to see it, I don't know if it's personal, with a peak on the dorm room rather than a flat room or a shed room. And I don't know if that is just me speaking or is that personal taste or? I really liked what Helen pointed out about being an asymm etrical two-door and that the shed dormer being more appropriate than a peak for this kind of home. I don't see a shed dormer being inappropriate for the style of home. I mean, I think we each have our own opinions about what we like though. I did not hear that properly. I was thinking she was saying a peak. It's called a shed dormer as opposed to a rich, well, gable dormer. A gable dormer, yeah. We've got both on our house, by the way, gable dormers and shed, but the ones that you can see from the street are shed dormers on our tutor. Okay, what about the windows in the middle instead of being on the edges? Well, like she said. They're asymmetrical and I mean they're symmetrical to each other in some ways, but because it's an asymmetrical tutor. Helen, you can speak on this more than I can. What I was stating was that this house, the architectural style of this home is an asymmetric tutor. And an asymmetric tutor house should appropriately follow that style all the way through. And so the dormers that he has proposed are shed dormers with off center windows. And that's appropriate for, I believe, for this style. If you try to put a gable dormer with a peak on it and a ridge and centered windows, it'll look like it's got a Victorian element in a tutor style. And so those two styles will compete with each other and it 'll look out of place. Most dormers you see on modern houses are Victorian style. This house, if you're going to stay with the historic style , you should stay with that. More appropriately the design elements he has proposed. Thank you. All right. Do we have any other questions or discussion while we still have this motion open? All right. Let's go ahead and vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed say nay. Okay. Okay. Let's move on. We have -- we're going to consider -- consider amending a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 35.7.6.8.8 to approve the wall text to accompany the recently installed for permanent display Linford design doors at City Hall, which you probably saw on your way in. The building is located at 215 East McKinney Street on the north side of East McKinney between North Locust and North Bell and Roman is going to give a presentation. Okay. Thank you. Yes, this is about -- a few months ago we had a presentation, you know, the doors were removed here from this entry and we had a lot of people concerned with what happened to them. And so we had that discussion. They were actually restored. They were not perfectly square. They didn't match well. There were a lot of reasons not to put them back. I can think of more reasons why not to take them out, but they were out. And so we were -- as a commission, we had to figure out what to do. And we talked about doing something like here on the left and where these are the doors. We're looking down into that corridor. There's the opening going outside. This is the kind of where we approved it. And then we approved that the doors be installed inside that corridor, but we did have -- I believe Commissioner Bailey asked that we bring back the actual diorama -- not diorama, but whatever the didactic that goes along with the doors being there. And that's what I'm bringing back to you here. So here are the doors if you come in that entry today. Kirkpatrick Architects helped with the layout and the design, how they would sit, and some craftsmen came in and got them out. They're made so that you can slide them out if for any reason they're just at the right angle that you could pull one or the other out. Then the city is planning to move the sword over to display a little bit to the right in that image down that corridor. And then the city managers and mayors have been brought back to this place. I would have liked to have seen this kind of moved first and maybe give us some breathing room here. I'm not sure about that and if that may be an option down the line. But anyway, that's not what we're addressing. You know that there were -- the city council people were here before, and they've been displayed, those images, on the stairwell. So there are the doors. Again, so that creates an opportunity here. I don't know exactly what I'm bringing back to you, quite frankly. I didn't make a recommendation, but I do -- I know I'm bringing back some text, which we have everyone here could check the text. And Jerry went over the check and I had something in there and he caught that. But this wording is also from one of the textbook -- or one of the books on O'Neill Ford and just kind of pieced together a little history. So here it is here. I can read through it if that's useful. You know, if you guys want to hear it, let me just read through it. We'll just make sure it reads right, if anybody catches it. So O'Neill Ford was the most influential architect of the 20th century -- I'm sorry. O'Neill Ford was the most influential Texas architect of the 20th century, a technological innovator who bridged Texas's rural past and urban future. He taught three generations of architects how to adapt vern acular forms and materials to modern conditions. Widely known as the designer or restorer of such San Antonio landmarks as La Viejita, Hemisphere Plaza, and Trinity University, Ford also designed buildings from Laredo in deep south Texas to Saratoga Springs in upstate New York over the course of his 60-year career. During the mid-1960s, Ford also designed numerous buildings in his second hometown, Denton. He created a civic complex that includes the City Hall you are standing in now, an assembly building immediately to the east of this building, and a public swimming pool. He also designed an addition to the Emily Fowler Library in 1981. That's that one. So I do have one comment for you. Okay. And I'm not sure that it -- this may be splitting hairs, but there is more than one influential Texas architect of the 20th century. The most notable one I can think of is Philip Johnson. So I think we might want to say O'Neill Ford was one of the most -- Or was an influential Texas architect. One of the most influential Texas architects of the 20th century. Something that makes it not so absolute because that is perhaps too absolute a statement for some who might read it on the wall. Yes, that sounds really good. Yeah, that sounds great. I agree with that. Also, should Hemisphere Plaza have a space between Hem isphere? Where are we? Hemisphere? Oh, it might. I'm not sure the proper -- that sounds right. We'll double check that. Hyphenated, do you think? Let me check. We can pull that up. Nope, it is one word. You are correct. Do we want to add anything about the homes that he -- something where it says the rest of the buildings that he created? Do we want to say anything? Yes. There's a lot of buildings in there as well as numerous homes that are still, you know, lived in today or something like that because that's important that we've got him all around. He created some -- Maybe after all sorts of numerous buildings and homes in his second hometown, Denton. There you go. I think so, building. Hemisphere and homes. Hemisphere should not be capitalized. Hemisphere should not be capitalized. Only the H should, the F should not be. It is all one word. Okay. And does that work where Jerry said, Deb, that we would say during the mid-1960s -- it can't be because he actually -- one of his earliest, if not first homes is -- Lodge growing. -- this quarter line. That's right. It's on North Bell. So we would have to have maybe a separate -- during his mid -1960s. So maybe it's the opening line there is O'Neill Ford's career -- it could almost be said that it started in Denton. But I mean, it's -- because you do -- I looked and I think it seems to be just one structure at a ranch and maybe in the Hill Country that was -- Before that. -- before the home on North Bell that T.W. owns -- T.W. owns today. Okay. So this is -- there's no rush on this. Why don't I take this into consideration and come back? But there's no one chomping at the bit to put a marker there. Okay. So I'll just let them know that we're still working -- we 'll bring it back another draft. If that's okay? Is this going to be brass or -- That's a good -- Brass? I have that question. I'll present you something on that. Helen, just a minute. If you want -- if you can wait, we'll do the Lynn Ford one and then the brass question. So Lynn Ford, craftsman, cabinetmaker, builder, and teacher frequently collaborated with his brother, O'Neill Ford. They were born in Sherman, Texas. He was the second son of Leonides Bertram, Bert, and Lula Bell Sinclair Ford. Lynn had a younger sister, Othella, an artist in her own right. Bert Ford introduced Lynn to the art of wood carving. The elder Ford died in a train wreck in 1918 after which Bell Ford moved the family to Denton. From 1938 to 1953, Ford collaborated with his brother in building homes for prominent Texans. Generally, he worked with unskilled laborers to lay bricks, set tile, and make furniture, doors, mantles, beams, and other carpentry work. He temporarily left this work for service in the Army during World War II for which he won several medals. His work is prominently featured in several Texas landmarks including the McNay Art Institute in Austin, Texas, and Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, New York. So that's what we have for Lynn in this great photograph from the UTR drives of Lynn Ford. So what I was thinking is we have the bronze in the corridor. I thought I had a picture of it here, but I guess I didn't put it. Let me double check. Yes, I didn't incorporate it. Across the hall there, we have the bronze markers for this building. And so I was sort of photoshopping these in as what do you end up with? The bronze and then the scale of these, these may be wrong. We had presented the idea of a much larger image here, but this was just sort of plain of that. And here's a version, maybe it's bronze with something else back. I did feel that they should be monumental in a way. The scale shouldn't be small. I mean, given that the door, whole door system was the signature before. We don't have the carved wood door system and we're doing something smaller here. So there's also the question of that. I've seen that image of O'Neill Ford in black and white, but then it exists in color. So do they, these are questions. Do we need an image? Are we on the right track? I don't mind the image as long as they're both the same. So if one is in black and white, I would put both in black and white. Especially if you've got a wall of black and white right next to it, which I know that might be changing, but it seems more appropriate for them to both be in black and white. Depending on how you do it, the colors may fade with that sunlight. The historic markers that I had put on the Denton UNT campus are basically bronze and like another tone of bronze that the photo is actually kind of etched into the bronze. So there's no, it's just more of a contrast image. It's more like it looks black and white, but it's actually layers of bronze. Oh, wow. I love that. Yeah. But you might, you might, I can send you a photo of one of those and I can actually find you where we ordered them if you want. Okay. Okay. We could bring back that as an option? You know, it might affect what image you choose because you know if it's too detailed, like this, it might lose it a little bit, lose the detail. So I guess we need to see some more options and a final draft. Okay. Does that sound right? Yeah, that sounds good. We'll do it. It was just no hurry. So let's bring that back and if we have an August meeting, which I do have another item for that. So I would say I didn't make a recommendation for a reason there. I just wanted to see where to go. Perfect. Overall, you are okay with the way the doors turned out? They're beautiful. I love that. I noticed them on my way in. Yeah. It's a great place if they had to be moved. And it's a really minimal mounting, very delicate, really the mounting disappears so you can really just appreciate the doors, which is great . And I like it that they're not flat against the wall. Yeah, that's great. I feel the same way. All right. Well, those, that's it on that item. The next thing down. Great. So we're going, can we hear a motion to continue the item? Do we need a vote for that? Did we just continue? Great. Great. So we're going to continue that item. And then the final thing on our agenda is our matrix. This is relatively unchanged. We have the final documents finally going forward for the preservation plan. I was waiting to get some account number right. And so that's ready to go in. We should be engaging somebody soon. I don't want to make it public till we get the lock in, I guess, from the other side on that. But very, very optimistic about that. And I'll take any recommendations or anything else you all want to see changed or brought up. I've had several people in the community recently ask me about the designation of downtown on their own, not realizing I'm part of HLC. And so I guess my quick question, I always recommend to them calling their city council person and recommending that that be something that gets pushed through. Is there anything else that we can do as community members as well as HLC board members or commission members? You know, we have the Scott McDonald has been working. And as far as I know, is still going forward with a design district downtown and that you heard about him either was the last meeting of the meeting before. And that though under that scenario, we're not labeling anything a local historic district. But the way that that ordinance will be drafted is such that you will have the same protection protections you typically see for for a downtown district. That that you cannot demolish buildings in the district or alter buildings in the district without a certificate of appropriateness. The discussion I'm hearing now is and again, he's been we 've been successful. This has been something, of course, as you all know, you all been here longer than me. It's been hard to get the proper protections for the National Register District. So I see us moving in that direction. And it seems like to get the buy in. It may be that the review board for certificate of appropri ateness. One suggestion that's been brought up is it might have two or three members from HLC, two or three members from P and Z and two or three from the people that live in the district or in the community. That's just a suggestion. It still will have to be brought back to the Landmark Commission. But I've heard that I'm just letting you know what all I've heard. But we it's moving forward along with the development services department's been extremely busy with a small area plan that Ron has been overseeing with the development code is we got the pedal to the to the metal on getting that through. And with that will come the preservation revisions. So it's just been there's been a lot of things moving forward all at once. And now the preservation plan will come in and we'll be asking members of this commission to be part of the steering committee for that as that goes for the whole city forward. Thank you so much for your update on that. Sure. Any other questions. We have one more thing on our ongoing business. We would like to thank you for your service. You've been with us for what seven years seven years chair and I know that you are rolling off. Is this your last meeting either this or August. I thought it was August but it might be August that I want to thank you now. So thank you so much for all the service that you provided us with and the great amount of growth that we've seen under your leadership. It's been great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And for the passion. Good. Do we have any other ongoing business or anything that needs to be added to next. The next agenda. Okay great. Then let's finish this thing up. There's no other business than the regular meeting is adjourned at 6 10 p.m. Thank you. Thank you. Question you'll be there before you get the doors.