Jun 11, 2018 Historic Landmark Commission on 2018-06-11 5:30 PM
June 11, 2018 Historic Landmark Commission
Full Transcript
We have a quorum, we need five members, we have five
members, so I will now call the regular meeting to order at
5.37 p.m.
Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
Roy, would you mind leading us in the Pledges of Allegiance
? Thank you.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under
God,
one indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I'm sorry, I started thinking of the Texas Pledge.
Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas one
state under God, one indivisible.
Alright, we have two items for consideration tonight.
The first we need to do is consider approval of the Hist
oric Landmark Commission meeting minutes from May 14, 2018.
Do I have any motions to approve the minutes?
So moved.
Excellent. Second.
Wonderful, thank you Roy for your second.
All those in favor say aye.
Aye.
All those opposed say nay.
Cool, the motion is approved.
Unanimously.
Alright, so let's move on to item B, hold a public meeting
and consider an application for a certificate of appropri
ateness
in accordance with section 37.5, sorry, 35.7.6.8A for
exterior rehabilitation work to the building located at 119
West Hickory Street,
a locally designated landmark located on West Hickory
Street between South Elm and South Locust.
Roman is going to give us a presentation.
Thank you, thank you everyone for making it here this
evening.
Prepared for you an extensive PowerPoint on this building
but I'll click as quick as I can.
The reason is that this property had a C of A in 2012 for
some windows and some door alterations and
it's my opinion that we probably didn't really consider the
full picture at that time and this building is a local
landmark at this site in the National Register District.
So, a couple things I want to draw your attention to are on
the left here is a letter that was sent from our department
to the owner back in 1981.
And it talked in this first paragraph towards the end.
It says that the Landmark Commission recommended approval
for a landmark designation.
And then it says, with the stipulation that the historic
landmark plaque which I'm not sure plaque was ever created
but it may be that it was the idea should there be one that
it include the word site.
Now I was unable to find the minutes from 1981, but I'm
going to, I'm going to suggest to you or proposing the idea
that I think what's more important about this building is
the site.
And that also seems to be the case when we look closely at
this sheet on the right, which has to do with it's a sheet
for which there was a sheet made for each property when the
National Register District was created.
And I'm going to move here it's a little closer. Look at
that document. It gives the address at the top.
And then you notice under style and type here it says turn
of the century New Orleans mercantile. Well that references
to the Ellington's bar which was built in the 80s or the
facade of the Ellington's bar which was made to look like
it.
And according to the Landmark Commission and some
documentation that the intent of the striped awning and the
wooden doors at that time was to, to have it look in that
style.
However, if we look at the, the description of the sort of
in here from that was part of the historical survey and
study and research that was done, we get a better idea
about the building that it was an old stone house it was
damaged by a fire.
There were three fires at least at this site over a period
over this, you know since to today.
And I'm sorry did you say three fires, three total you see
on the end there, the dates and I also the dates were in 18
77 on the south side of the square there was a fire with
severe destruction to virtually every business.
And in 1886, there was another.
Sorry I got my dates wrong 1860 is the first fire on the
south side of the square that destroyed the building that
was there, which was probably the stone house or some parts
thereof.
And it talks about the owner of dowry who was in the, who
was a civil war soldier.
The next fire was 1877.
And then in 1926 I think we have a fire.
Right there those notes are on that sheet and that's the
sheet that was submitted to the National Park Service to
create the National Register District and it shows those
remodeling dates on the right, all the way up to 81, which
is Ellington's.
I'll pick up the pace a little just these are interesting
1885. And you can tell where we had it with those fires
that often in these, the Sanborn mess will talk about a few
things I think it's interesting that there was no
independent horse carts, and the talks
about the water facilities not being good and that may not
have been helpful during those fires.
This is the south side of the square at that time. And the
site there is whatever I can't read it from here but yeah
groceries and photo photography, and then you still have
groceries and photography here in 1891.
And in 1896 you still have the photo.
We're looking right there. And that little box.
I'll have a photograph that that shows that.
Yes, this is where we just these pictures are going a
little different. Okay, there's maybe that photograph of a
street view and there's the photography place, and maybe
that box that's on the roof I'm just not sure how
descriptive it is is of that condition,
which looks a little like to me like it may have even been
glass on top but I'm not really sure no it's dark here so
there's that's what was going on around the turn of the
century.
Now I just threw this photo in to get you thinking about
this is an unknown streetscape, but about window openings
and door openings on building facades around that time.
Now this is the north side of the square with the College
of Industrial Arts there in the back the CIA. And you again
you see our, our typical facades here in Denton at that
time most of these have a little vestibule or windows on
the side here.
But I wanted to just think about that so in 1901, we, we
see have two story building there. So that's the building
that eventually is going to burn here's 1907.
And here it's interesting that in 1917 they're referencing
that we've improved our firefighting capacity with this
descriptive that's on the Sanborn map that we have to full
pied full paid men living at the station three part time or
five I can't quite read the number.
And one American La France six cylinder something
horsepower combination pumper pumps the chemicals and has
the hose, and then one two horse something hose reel and
two horses on a number 230 and, and then one other La
France combination trucks so we were ready in 1917.
Then, this is that streetscape around 1917 again, and our
building is right here.
And here's a photograph from about that time of the south
side of the square. So you see this is before we demolish
this bank that became the Wells Fargo bank.
And then there's that facade. And so it was the 26 fire
that took down a lot of these, these buildings, so our
building then had this second story, and I think that this,
whatever's left right in here.
The, for the, the, the side walls of the front opening are
probably what's there today under the current structure so
here's a little more closer look at that.
And of course I guess this second Julie knows better than
me I think this was damaged in the fire and then they
decided not to put it back. But this lower portion is what
you see there today at the, at the ice cream store.
So here is 26.
And so this must be just prior to the fire, because all
this would have been damaged now usually they'll mark in
here that there's fire damage or destroyed buildings.
And in your notes, you have this description, which has to
do with when it was landmarked in 81 this history was
written. So it says various tenants occupied the building
through 1926, when the second floor was again ravaged by
fire reconstruction
repair amounting to $5,500 was completed between 26 and 29.
And the burn joints in the building shell indicate that at
this moment in its history the building became a one story
structure in 1940 limo dress shop occupied the building and
an art deco storefront was constructed.
The mode was followed by the collegiate shop and then by Bo
Mars, from whom the present owners purchased the building
in 1980.
And so that's that tax image of the storefront. And again
so here I think what what's happened is they've skinned it
with possibly that that product that's something like glass
, it's a that we see some of that on the west side of the
square still.
I think that your original brick would have been under here
and under here and then a stucco maybe was applied here.
Here's just another angle on that around in the 40s.
And the Duke and Ayers building hasn't been altered yet.
It's an image yet just a little bit later because now we
have the collegiate shop and it looks like they've painted.
You can kind of see that little brick detail it's still
bumping out there but it may have been painted back it
looks a little darker below here.
This is an image also about that time because the, the
department stores haven't changed.
And it was an early.
Looks like every Saturday on the square currently.
Same vibes.
And so here it is it's the Ellington bar back here. So we
've landmark this building right around this time.
And this is again where I get to, I'm, if we were landmark
ing a building with a facade from 80, it makes more sense
that we were paying attention to the, to the site, and
which makes me think that the not would make the owner feel
very good but the work in 2012 and where we got a little, a
little concerned about this facade,
I'm not sure that was the best way to go so here was it
also interesting because here we have that.
That new facade under construction that happens in this
building.
And there's a night shot.
I don't think I'd let my children go to that bar it just
looks creepy in that.
It looks a little prettier here, the snow and about the
same time there it is.
And this is the 1996 historic resource survey that the
Texas Historic Commission paid grant for, and there's that
that beside.
Now, these are, this is a recent photograph taken from the
inside looking towards the front of the building. And what
I want to call out is that these this very nice original
brick condition I mean I don't know if it's the original
brick but it's old brick that's in good condition.
You see it on both sides. And this.
There's a lentil here which may have had a facade above it.
Getting a little closer to that.
You can see that I'm the project at that they're proposing,
as you'll see will allow people to actually see some of
this, just from walking down the sidewalk and so here's
that.
And what I'm saying is, I think was untouched and if you
look a little closer at that brick work.
And you see the edges finished of the brick very nicely all
the way up on both of those openings from the inside.
And this is the, the other side of the east side edge of
the same, same building same openings there.
This is what it looks like inside and has these skylights
and original walls.
And I understand I saw in the history here that the floor
was reconditioned was resurfaced in the 80s I think when
the bar was created.
So, in my recommendation, and in talking to the owners and
the contractors who are here this evening. We're curious as
to what you might find back behind here so this is the
building to the left of it.
This is our building here.
And that stucco is there's probably maybe a laugh there and
some original brick. And then this layer is this on top of
the black glass surface or is this that was destroyed and
then something else was put we really can't know at this
time.
So, the request.
How to miss, okay, let me I'm sorry that that slides out of
order so here's what we're proposing to do.
The owner is proposing. Now it's important to note that
this is a C of a ahead of a building permit. So your sign
ordinances, and your, your building code things to question
still need to be answered but in general this is the
concept that they want to
go forward with, which is to remove the, the front of the
building. And I'm, I think it's back, you'll have to ask
them that question I believe we're still leaving. If we
have an opening in here I'm not sure where that I don't see
that detail very well maybe
in the next in the plans photo. So here is just an
elevation of the. Those are the those which you see a lot
these days are on the east side of barley and board kind of
type, aluminum frame glass folding doors.
This sign condition here is very similar to what we saw in
the 40s limoed image this is a little bit different.
Now here you're looking into so this is the floor space
that would be entry, you would enter here is actually what
I'm saying is it looks like the brick is there on the sides
that you can ask for some clarity there but it looks like
that's there.
So here's a kind of a vestibule opening and the actual
entry to the building will be inside, and they propose to
have a little counter here to serve guests out here in
front.
And here that is in plan on the floor plan. So here's the
front of the building.
And those doors that fold.
And then the actual entry into the conditions part of the
part of the building and the bar.
I'm recommending, I've met with the with them based on my
under, you know my understanding of this building and
looking at what we have about our landmark. To me it's not
the 1980s facade that we were concerned with when we
landmarked it.
I think it was that we were concerned with the site and the
history of the building and if we look at the National
Register nomination, and that was list of alterations all
the way to 1980.
And I think that's a good example of how we're going to be
able to come down the sidewalk and to see original brick I
think if we do this carefully. We will not alter or destroy
any historic fabric in this building, because the 80s
facade.
And the way that's framed in there's not going to be much
integrity in there.
Just in that Ellington facade.
I think that the sign and all other codes will be met. And
then the contractor said that he would like to, and the
owner, if I understand correctly, they would like to see
what happens as they're exposing that and see whether the
under the stucco there's some original brick
that might be able to be exposed, and then the terrazzo
floor that you see in the collegiate image you can see the
edge of the trial floor there now. What is that going to
look like when you pull that entry out because that sure
would be nice to have polish up and see that
original collegiate or limo limo limo entry there.
So that's, I would ask that the just be that they allow me
to consult with them as we do that work and determine what
can be saved.
Those are my recommendations on the building. Are there any
questions.
Okay.
The opening that we now see as entering the restroom.
New doors, this lighting would kind of be aluminum glass, I
don't have them closed, the owner may have a set with them
but you, john I'm sorry I should have kept another.
See this frame here this is a probably it's probably an
Allen an anodized aluminum frame with glass, and those are
going to accordion together and close.
So, you would see that across to the middle here, and you
see this brick here this is the existing brick on the
interior, which is quite beautiful as you saw in the images
so I just think that for people coming down the sidewalk.
You're going to have a more of a historic feeling and then
the other thing I didn't mention here the period of
significance for our national registered district.
I had the dates, it's there around 1860 or 80 to 1940.
So again the Ellington facade doesn't even fit within the
period of significance on our historic district. It, not
that this gets it there, but this doesn't do any again in
nothing was should be done destructive to the original
fabric.
If we are to discover under here that there's an
opportunity to expose original brick, then we'll be closer
to a contributing building I believe, then we would have
otherwise.
What I believe is to paint this surface, if, if it can't be
removed but the contractors are here and they can clarify
that.
I have some questions for the owner. Okay, about when, like
when the doors are going to be the front is going to be
completely closed off is it mostly going to be open like
this or is it going to be open like this only on, you know,
good weather days.
Do you want to go ahead and open it up for public into the
public. Okay.
Roman Thank you for your presentation if the owners could
come up and speak to some of the questions that we may have
and let us know what you're thinking here, or if you would
like to be joined by your contractors or architecture,
welcome to do that.
Hello, thank you everybody for coming in tonight, just for
us.
Excellent. And, and I was the agent for the owner of the
building, as it is.
I have my contractor here cliff tender, as well as the
designer that did these renderings for you. I'm going to
pass these around you can all take a look this is like all
of the drawings, as well as pictures from today itself.
Those can go around those are from the designer.
You might get a better picture of some of the pictures that
are missing from here with the doors completely closed.
I did hear a question about when the doors will be open.
Obviously inclement weather, we get that three four times a
day in Texas. So, the idea is simply to have the doors. The
way it's going to work out is that those doors will be able
to retract completely.
So we'll have basically three options will have double
doors that will be able to open up on fairly good weather
and go into that inside vestibule.
What we're calling our indoor outdoor patio, Chris say it's
basically taking our current vestibule and expanding it out
to the footprint.
And I don't know how to work this thing so can't get there
but you might be able to look at it in one of these
pictures.
So, you can see like this would end up being this interior
indoor outdoor space.
It'll keep everything in indoors that condition space
protected when the weather is just kind of iffy, and then
the patio will be conditioned as well we're planning on
putting heating and air out there as well.
So we're going to try to keep those doors open as much as
possible. Worst case scenario they're all closed in the
front two doors are also closed best best case scenario
they're all completely open, but we have three options we
open up the two front doors like we do now, which is a six
foot opening, and then still have the glass doors on the
outside both left and right.
So that's the best case scenario, it all opens up, and you
have an indoor outdoor patio that will have little cafe
tables right out front on the sidewalk, that will be mov
able and inside the space.
So that's going to be a really versatile space we're going
to condition it the best we can for Texas weather.
So we're going to try to keep that open as much as possible
. We're going to expose, you know, the ceiling to the
original choice, as much as we can open it all up.
So that literally shows the true history of that building
as far back as it's been built to our knowledge at this
point.
So that's, that's that question.
Yes, absolutely.
All I'm doing is straight across, like it is now. Basically
, everything that I've tried to do.
Independently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Outside.
All that that'll be exposed.
Well, it'll be everything will be.
Clif Tender is our is our contractor also Brandon, tend
ering come up or Taylor, you can come up here if you would
like.
Cliff.
Excellent cliff as you speak I need you to actually say
your name and your address into that microphone for Clif
tender Fort Worth, Texas, coming up here to dent in 300
Benjamin Street can be doing work at 119.
Excellent. Thank you.
Alright, so to answer your question I think enrollment,
what you showed with the mode actually have an interest.
Right.
So, it, it looks to me like you're taking it a lot further
back than Ellington's and back towards the limo to the
collegiate stores so the limo has that terrazzo tile.
And then if I look at the pictures of the collegiate I can
see all of that as well, but without the, the as much like
window space basically so what you're suggesting is or
proposing is the better term is knocking that entry back to
where it was.
Correct.
And in the in that age, like closer to the 1940s.
Right.
Okay.
But without them.
This goes in. You see the trial so here. Yes, why red
stripe.
Yeah, we're gonna see all that.
That's our goal is to show the history of that I think
Roman like 43 I think when we saw the date.
26 to 40.
And then, of course this has the glass storefront panels
that were kind of jigg jagged in there. Right. And so those
will come out and then you'll see the brick, like the next
door building here, right, we can expose the break here on
the outside we're going to see the brick from, I'm hoping
that's 1880 brick from the inside.
So we're going to have as much history as we can put back
in there. I know right now we have the doors right here on
the very front and locks it down. It's been like that
probably since the 1980s.
80s.
Right. Right. The only difference is we're not going to
have like the storefront, I mean we're right front bar we
don't need windows for, you know, selling t shirts and
mannequins.
You don't need mannequins sitting at a table drinking.
We could try.
With the no smoking ban now and all that, you know, we're
getting less people frequenting in the business and we want
to really make a statement on the square. Historically
speaking and we've looked at all of these pictures and
everything we can possibly do to bring back the
history of this building because everything I've tried to
do in the past has always gone back to the 80s. Right. And
it's like, but that's not historical. Right. Can we go back
beyond that. So, this is going to expose draw so hopefully
we got the brick behind the facade that we can expose the
signage is going to be linear vertical like it used to be
with the mode, like the things like this.
The addition to the sign above the building is more of a
historical period like the Morrison's kit.
Corn corn kit, corn kit stuff.
Hollywood signage, you know something a little bit more
outstanding kind of races that lifts that that building up
a little bit.
So, if you look at the square from the, from the actual
courthouse you see all these buildings from Abby down to L
SA that are all built up and nice and reclaimed and repurp
osed.
And then you get to this just flat spot all the way past to
the lawyer spot, and we're just part of that.
Part of it. So we're trying to boost it, lift it, make it
look more appealing and generate more business for the
square.
Well, I really appreciate you looking beyond the 1980s and
into farther back for sure.
Two questions. What are the odds that there are some
original bricks higher up on the facade and secondarily
from your facade to the curb how many feet.
We know that we climbed up on the top, and we actually
tried to remove some of the stuff that's there behind it is
original.
We're still bringing in some masons that kind of got us
through that because the plaster is right to the brick.
There's a lot of wire mesh behind it. Right.
The way it used to be done is the way it's done now. Right.
So we're hoping that we can salvage and reclaim as much of
that brick that was there.
You know, I mean that's what we want. We want it to look
historic.
And then you asked the second question was how far to the
street. I think it's right at nine feet from the front of
the building. Right.
The sidewalk. It's like two just a little over four foot
sections and then the curb.
Whenever you're speaking I'm so sorry whenever you address
questions would you mind speaking into the mic for us.
Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you because we're recording.
Repeat.
Here.
Nobody said again.
Told you from down south.
Okay.
We're good.
Thanks.
So I have a comment regarding the signage. You were just
talking about the signage a little bit.
Certainly the sign that's verticals projecting out from the
center of the building harkens back to previous signage
that's been on that site and there's others around the
square.
And that seems very fitting.
I'm wondering if you would be able to explore the design of
the signage on the top of the building a little further.
It seems kind of contemporary to me. I understand what you
're saying about maybe trying to make it look like Morrison
's corn kits, but it seems very modern and kind of stuck up
there.
And so I wonder if there could be more exploration of a
design for that.
Well, I totally knew that question was going to come up.
That's something the designer and I have been going through
with that with that construction the framework behind that
sign.
Right. The ideal is to put it up there like the Morrison
born kids or like the old Hollywood signs with minimal
framework.
That was kind of an idea of like maybe making it a little
contemporary and retro at the same time.
I figured that idea may not fly with this work society, but
we can definitely reduce the framework on that.
If you guys buy off on the signage above the building,
which is what we're really shooting for more than anything,
because that framework doesn't have to be as big and like
squared off the way it shows in our, our renderings.
It can be minimal, but we're really trying to buy off on
just the signage above it to where, you know, it brings
back a little bit more history to that.
We're trying to go a little contemporary plus, you know,
old school too, because everything around us is going
contemporary.
I mean, all the other businesses are doing things that are
very, very contemporary.
Modern. You know, we're trying not to shoot ourselves in
the foot at the same time, a little step out of bounds if
we can.
So yes, that can be that can definitely be the fonts can be
changed and all that stuff.
We were going block lettering because just that's the way,
you know, our current style is within the business.
I wonder if it would look less sort of just stuck up there
if it was the width of the building.
It looks like it's not far off from being the full width of
the building now.
I don't have any I don't have a solution in mind.
I just I just think that it it's not quite there yet.
Yeah, it's I think the measurements on that I was looking
at earlier.
I was 17, Brandon, 17 foot wide.
The building's only 21, 23 feet wide.
So there's several versions of that.
There's not a lot of play left in the width of your right.
And that was based on, you know, saving costs and getting
lettering that's already prefabricated and the size and
keeping it within structural.
I'll say I really like the idea of mimicking the Morrison's
corn kit sign.
And I've actually got a picture pulled up of it right now.
And the big difference between it, because I felt the same
way as Helen that was off was the framework, the size, the
boldness of the framework behind it.
However, we can't approve this sign that has to go with the
same ordinance.
We can only approve the architecture of the building.
Right. Right.
But I definitely agree. And looking at the Morrison's corn
kit sign even next to this and reimagining the loophole
sign with the theme moved over and making a little more
straight and all of I like the big block lettering.
But as a lighter framework, I think would still give you
that height.
But without that heavy kind of grid, absolutely.
I agree. I see your point of the contemporaneous of that
grid that's on the rendering.
Yeah, that's something we just put into place for the time
being, just kind of put it up there. Right. I understand.
We've had many discussions about that, like lessening what
we were kind of shooting for that question to come out.
Yeah. So that we could see.
Really, I really personally support the idea of going up
with that sign to add that height to your building.
And I think that gives you a lot of the more modern feel
that you're looking for in general, especially doing the
all black facade gives you more as oddly as it is, it hark
ens back to that 1940s store.
But it also is very modern.
Are there any more questions?
Absolutely.
And I'm with the legal department. I'm not a decision maker
here.
I just want to preface that. But the folding doors that you
were showing there, it appears that they may protrude out
and partially obstruct the public sidewalk.
Is that part of the public property or is that part of your
lot that belongs to the applicant?
Because if it does go out of the sidewalk, the commission's
approval wouldn't be granting an easement or anything of
that nature or property right there.
There's something within an architectural style.
But I thought it might help to clarify. Is that actually
extending into the sidewalk itself or is that part of your
lot?
It would in this current design. Yes, it would be on the
sidewalk, like people put chairs and tables the same way
that you can put chairs and tables in front of it.
So it's kind of like that gray area with the usable space
in front of the building.
But we could always like those doors and those that front
facade and the windows is going to totally depend on, you
know, if the city buys off on this idea to where when we
get the bids, where that window, what kind of windows and
doors, those are going to actually be.
They could be roll up windows. They could be something
completely different for easement purposes and stuff like
that, because we will when we open it all up, we're going
to put chairs and tables in front just like everybody else.
So we're going to take up that space.
The consideration of this facade would not grant permission
on behalf of the city per se to extend onto the sidewalk.
That kind of permission may have to come from another board
or council or some other body.
Yes, that's actually a really good point.
I didn't think about that.
I'm sure that Cliff will come up with something that can
not MPs on the sidewalk.
So it doesn't set a precedence.
You can get accordion doors that have the pivot point.
Right where they're like they fold inside.
Yeah, we can.
I mean, that's just that's semantics.
I guess there are solutions for sure.
This guy knows all of them. Trust me.
Anything else?
Daniel looks good.
It's a great concept.
I love it.
I do too, actually.
Trying to keep up with the town.
What do you think about this?
It seems like you've been here longer than any of us.
You like what we're doing?
That's not an insult.
I'm asking for your wisdom.
I don't know about yours.
I like the idea of exposing the brick.
I like the idea of the floor.
I like the vertical sign.
I like interior exposure, which you're talking about.
I see your idea on the folding doors.
That may be a problem.
Not my group, but some other people.
I like your idea.
I support it.
Thanks, John.
I heard you were concerned before we were talking about the
sign.
I'm not concerned about that anymore.
I'm not because I don't have any authority.
That's the citizen I'm not concerned about.
It's okay.
I don't have any problems.
Man, I appreciate you.
I really do.
A lot of times when we go to meetings, there's always a
question that we don't answer thoroughly, and we have to go
back.
I just want to make sure I cover the basics, but I
appreciate you telling us exactly what it is.
All the concerns you have about the sign, about the doors,
believe me, we've been up for how many hours?
Nights sometimes talking about this.
We just wanted something to present, to get a feel, so we
can proceed or go forward.
If you like it, then we want to run with it.
We want to do it as soon as the city allows.
Of course, we're going to work to keep the history of Dent
on down there.
There's so many people that forget it.
It's like they come to Denton.
It's like it's a college town.
No.
You know, Bonnie and Clyde came here, and that little place
where I live, they robbed that bank twice.
So it's just -- it's what people talk about.
So when they come here, we want to say, hey, you've been to
Denton?
And they say, oh, you mean that place that has the loophole
, the old place?
So we want to bring some life here, you know, or keep life
here.
That's our goal, make it look good.
And if you all work with us on it, hey, we're going to do
everything we can to do what we say we're going to do and
fix the door problems.
We talked about those front glass doors also.
Originally, the concept was more or less like LSA, where it
was just --
The open.
It's open because that's -- our attention was that open
patio, and we have the interior locks doors, and that's all
secure and weatherproof.
So that's a possibility.
Cliff brought up a really good point with those doors,
those hinged or whatever metal collapsing doors are very
dangerous.
People lose their fingers and stuff, closing those things
and stuff like that.
And so we were going for something a little more secure and
then, like I said, having three different options, weather
dependent.
And finding the right touch for those front doors and
windows is obviously going to be one of the biggest, you
know, things we have to conquer,
because that is going to be the major thing that everybody
's going to see year round.
So we don't want it to look like a bunch of jailhouse bars
and stuff like that either.
We want it to look nice and still periodic to the timeframe
.
Helen, anything?
If there are no other questions.
I would like to add that I think you should bring back the
legal puns on your menu.
Legal puns?
Yes.
They had a bunch of lawyer puns on their menu.
They were hilarious.
They were great.
The jail break burger and all that stuff.
The chef is sitting right behind you, so we're working on
the new menu.
This is going to actually -- everything is going to trickle
down through the menu and everything else.
Is that some clear glass in those windows or what?
Well, right now we have it designed as clear.
Right.
So you can see through all the way.
Safety and all that other stuff.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, tempered glass.
Yeah, no harm.
I want to say I really appreciate the way that you looked
at the past and married it with the present,
because we're not trying to recreate Disney World here.
This is not the 1940s on repeat.
I really like that you have taken a modern approach
utilizing the historic fabric of what's in that building
and your openness to looking at the considerable materials
that are currently there.
I really -- I just want to say I appreciate your efforts in
that manner.
That is hard to do.
Thanks, Alyssa.
I think Brandon and Taylor over there are designers, and
Lynn in front of him is the most responsible
for really taking all of the old and the current and
putting it all together.
Yeah.
I think that this would be a really easy facade to look at
and somebody to go, whoa, that's not historic at all.
But when you look back at the older pictures in the Colleg
iate Store and Le Mode and the others,
and you look at the reinvigoration of the brick and re
introducing it in a new way,
and the tile and reintroducing it in a new way, it's very
creative, and you've done a really nice job here.
Thank you very much.
We appreciate it.
We need to stand out.
We've been in business now 22 years as a loophole and LNP
before that.
Yeah.
A lot of things have changed and gone out.
Everything's changing.
We've got to be new and different.
Great.
Thank you.
Well, if we have no other questions, we're free to sit down
.
Hey, I want to thank you all for letting us talk to you
about what we like to do here in Denton.
We appreciate your time.
We know everybody's got a family life.
So thank you again.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Roman, thank you again for the presentation and all the
hard work that you went into researching.
Appreciate it.
Appreciate you all.
Thank you very much.
Is there anybody else from the public who would like to
speak about this?
No?
Okay.
Then we'll go ahead and close the public portion of this.
I have a comment.
Oh, you have a comment?
Just real quick.
Go for it.
Just for clarification, if Roman, can you clarify the
condition?
There is a recommendation that's in the staff report that's
not on the slide there.
Was that intended or did you want to include the condition
that's in the staff report as well?
That was it.
I don't remember what I've got there.
What is it?
It says that if it is discovered during the demolition
phase that the original facade material may be permanently
exposed and is worthy of such that they remain exposed.
Is that?
I think that's probably more appropriately written there
than here, whichever one works.
I think it's kind of the same.
Final determination to be made by HPO.
Okay.
Respect to the viability.
I think there could be, sometimes, for example, with your,
you might expose some brick and you might have a mason come
out and he's going to say, oh, I can't, you could repoint
that, but it's going to fall out anyway or the brick's too
decayed and somebody has to make that call.
And personally, I'd like to be trusted with that.
And I mean, I'm not going to be, make that decision just on
my own.
But generally, the brick I've seen here in Denton is
usually really hard brick.
Down near the border, we have a lot of brick that's, it
just falls apart, a lot of the sand and just opens up.
You don't see it so much here.
But it's just a question of whether you end up in, or if
the terrazzo floor looks just like it's got a bunch of
concrete stuck to it and doesn't look like it's going to
make it, but we've all, you know, we've seen that you can
resurface those things.
Although on the other hand, it may be terribly destroyed.
I don't know if they drove, you know, nails into it every
four inches or something.
Until you get in there, you're not going to know.
So it's up to you all how you want to word it.
I'm sure it's completely up to you.
Those are the things.
And I didn't realize I had gotten those differently as I
was putting this together.
Just a little different.
I just want to make sure that the commission was clear on
staff's recommendation.
Okay.
Both are asking that we, that if we find original material
that we leave it there.
But I think we've discussed that the only thing that it may
be that it's not going to happen.
You may not be able to access that brick very well.
And so it's going to be a question until you get into the
building.
You really can't tell.
Right.
Questions, comments, any other clarification that needs to
happen?
You ready for a motion?
I move we approve HLC 18-012 subject to the following
condition that the original brickwork and floor work, if
possible, be restored and retained as subject to approval
by our historic preservation officer.
I second.
Do we have any commentary while we have an open motion on
the floor?
No questions.
Good.
All right.
Let's go ahead and take a vote.
All those in favor say aye.
Aye.
All those opposed say nay.
Right.
It passes unanimously.
The motion is approved.
Good job, y'all.
I hope that's what you were hoping for.
We really look forward to seeing what you do there.
So I'm crossing our fingers for terrazzo in good shape.
Yes, we'll make you proud.
Good.
I love it.
I have to look at it every day when I walk outside.
So make me proud.
I'm excited.
One more item.
I'm just going to wait for it to quiet down really quickly.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I'm glad you're here.
I'm glad you're here.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right.
Okay.
Let's wrap this thing up.
We've got one more item to go through.
The historic landmark commission project matrix.
Roman.
Are there any items that need to be added, updated?
I haven't proposed any changes to this.
If y'all have anything you want to add to it.
I'm not sure if it's been, it's not been having it really
addressed it since the last meeting.
Okay.
I do have one quick question.
The local designation of downtown.
Okay.
Has the PNZ presentation happened?
Yes.
That those, that whatever we're calling, I don't think we
've really defined it, but a design district.
Sure.
For lack of a better word.
That was actually presented at a work session to city
council.
Okay.
And that is the ordinance for that is that being prepared
now.
Excellent.
And when it's after that, there will be an opportunity for
public input again, kind of in the community, community
meeting type of it before what comes back to landmark
commission.
Then to PNZ and then to city council again.
Okay.
So when are, what is the timeline for that?
What are we looking at?
I'm not exactly sure that I know the ordinance is being
drafted by Sean in the office and we'll be discussing that
actually tomorrow.
So I would imagine within the next month, we'll be holding
another community meeting of some type.
And then I don't know if we'll make that full circuit to
the downtown task force and the main street board again.
I'm not sure if she's really where we'll, it may not be
that little Ron seconds.
Maybe it'll just be a community meeting and then here and
yeah.
So that quick there.
The that's that's where we are with that.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Okay.
Anything else?
We're good.
Add subtract.
Great.
If there's no other business, then the regular meeting is
adjourned at 630 PN.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
Thank you all very much.
Thank you.