Apr 16, 2021 Public Art Committee on 2021-04-16 4:00 PM (SPECIAL CALLED MEETING)

Good afternoon, everyone. This is the public art committee meeting for Friday, April 16, 2021. We have one excused absence today. One possible other absence that may also be excused or to be determined. This is my first time running the meeting, so please go easy on me. Eddie, if I could get some direction from you, do we just want to go over the meeting minutes from last meeting and after reviewing those, get a motion to approve? That is correct. You've already mentioned about the there's no public comments, right? There's no public comments. No public comments today. Sure thing. So go ahead and read out the first item for consideration, part A, you just read it and then ask if there's anything that anyone want to add for the minutes or you guys approve it. Sure. And you want me to read all of part A? Yes, sir. Okay. Under section 551.042 of the Texas Open Meetings Act, respond to inquiries from the public art committee or public with specific factual information or recitation of policy. Eddie, I'm sorry. What I meant is items for consideration. Items for consideration. Yes. Starting with part A. Well, there were two part A's, so like I said, I'll be good for comic value today, I see. Items for consideration, PAC 21-007, consider approval of the minutes of March 4th, 2021. Thank you. And as chair, I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have multiple seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All against? The ayes have it. Let's move on to item for consideration B. Who seconded? Meredith. Meredith. Thank you. Sure thing. Item B, PAC 21-008, receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the status of the following public art committee projects. One, the G. Rowland Vela Athletic Complex, two, Tennis Center, three, Fire Station number three, four, MLK Junior Recreation Center Sculpture, and number five, Denton Women's Interracial Fellowship Monument. Ed, this is John Whitmore, Park's planning manager, and I will be able to do that presentation. All right. I can't believe I read the wrong part A. Oh, it does happen. Okay. Here we go. First of all, let's talk about the G. Rowland Athletic Complex. Everything's moving quite along. It's currently under fabrication, the sculpture is. The next steps on that will be complete the sculpture fabrication and then complete the redesign of the base under the sculpture. We're actually going to try to put some more vegetation around it to give it a little bit of buffer between anybody trying to grab the sculpture, so it could get hot. I happen to have pictures of the fabrications. I thought everybody would like to see. This area here, that is the very center of the sculpture in the ball, the soccer ball port, and these are support structures that will go to be able to create the overall ball, and you can see it coming together in their workshop right here, and you can see the Texas star now in that ball there, and then the construction of the whole rest of that structure for it. So I thought it's really going to come along, and they're not expecting to have any other complications in this fabrication for it. Did anybody have any questions? Okay, I'll move on to the next one then. All right, the tennis center, mostly that's completed. We can start working on that. I'm going to bring the subcommittee together, and right now that subcommittee is Franklin Nixon and Steele. Ed, I think you're on every last one of them from what I looked at. You must have volunteered a lot. I do that, yeah. Anyway, we're going to start that initiation since we have an area identified out there that we can take a look at for it, and so we'll have that subcommittee kick that off, and we'll be able to get going and get that concept out. Fire station number three, there were some questions on the subcommittee for that one. We are now ready to get that one rolling. They have completed all the demolition of the old one, and they finished doing a sidewalk that surrounds the area where that sculpture is going to go. I'll call the subcommittee together, but I've got a feeling that was a pre-proposed one. I know, Ed, you had all of them, but I think it was ... Was it Michelle, were you also on that one? I think Lene was on that one. I just wanted to confirm, make sure, don't know. That one's been around for so long. We've had so many members come and go. I still was, though, yeah. I'm still trying to help with that. Okay. You may remember that they'd actually asked us to hold off on doing the project until they had areas that they could identify because they wanted to pick where they wanted it, so they've done that. I went out and took some pictures of those areas, and it looks like it'd be a viable area for it, so I will get that group together. MLK, they're moving along with that one. They've almost completed all of the rough out. The artist, Madeline Wiener, she has one of her associates do the large rough out of the entire block, and then she comes in and does all that finish work for it. That's currently just finishing up the rough work, and then she will finish that part. Secondly, right now, we're starting to prepare the site, and so we'll be moving the flag poles and then preparing the concrete and the base all through there. The area around the sculpture is going to be a stamped concrete with oak leaves and various leaves of the area, so then the sculptures will sit on top of that base, and then we'll landscape a little bit around it and also improve some landscaping around the MLK center in the front to set that off a little bit better, but it will be almost right next to the center. All right, the DWIF monument, there isn't a week that goes by that I don't talk to the artist. She's researching very fiercely all different things, and I think, Michelle, you've been talking with her? Yes, I have, and I have an ask for the committee when you get a moment. Okay, well, we can do that at the end of the presentation, so we should be getting that real quick. So, anyway, that's under fabrication. We're also working with a landscape architect firm to be able to have industrial street park redesigned a bit to be able to really show off this whole thing, and we'll be bringing that design to show the pack, I think, at the next meeting when we have a little bit farther along with it. All right, now, any questions that we have? I think, Michelle, if you want to bring up your ask. Yes, so, Dina is so, I don't know, diligent in what she's doing, and it's really important to her to get each of these 96 images to be something that's meaningful, and so what I have to ask is that she is looking for modern-day pictures taken now of kids in interracial groupings. She's looking for something that's either going to be like a head and chest or a head to torso, either horizontal or vertical, but just of different kids under 18, like birth to 18, in multi-ethnic groupings doing stuff. I sent her some of the goal soccer teams. She's got access to the DISD ones now, but if you have kids or grandkids or neighbors or family members who you would like to maybe have memorialized in this statue, could you please send either me or John, or just send it to Dina, if you can, I'm sure she'll take it from you, of any of those pictures that you could send. That would be really great, and then that would make it even more special to Denton, because it would be people from Denton in these pictures. And she's looking for as high res of a picture as can be. Yes, but if you have a newer iPhone, those pictures are actually adequate, she said, so do the best you can, but the technology is definitely working in our favor. And if you have pictures that you don't have electronically, we can scan those. Well I'm sure we have some at the Greater Denton Arts Council, and if you'll give me the email address, I can send them to her, as well as to you. Okay, super. Okay, we'll send that out. Okay, any other questions on the project updates? Just a quick thing, it may not be on a project update, but I missed a meeting at the end of last year, but has anything been proposed about the recently completed mural over on Roberson Street under the VITA, as far as unveiling or any other, just, I went back through the notes and didn't see that I missed anything, but has that even been discussed or talked about the foundations of our history mural? John, I can chime in, Gary Pack, and Director of Parks and Recreation. We are working on identifying a date to get that set. We wanted to get past the vaccines and all that and get closer into the better temperatures. We were looking at maybe Juneteenth, but then we thought, well, we don't want to overlap and kind of take away some of the excitement of that, so we're reaching out for another date, so we'll get something to you guys as soon as possible with a date that's good for the community and the subject matter. Thank you. Thank you. Good question. Okay, if there's no more discussion, we'll move on to item C. Pack 21-010, receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the public art purchased by artist J.B. Miller. Okay, hang on. Let me get this ready. Okay. All right, can everybody see that now? Yes. All right, great. All right. An opportunity has come up to be able to take a look at a purchase of a J.B. Miller art piece. It's essentially a part of the estate of J.B. Miller, and when he passed, he left everything he had to his wife, and now she has passed, and the estate is now looking at selling off some of the sculptures and various things that he had around his home and workshop, and so this was brought to our attention. There were actually two pieces, and one of them got sold out from under us. However, there's another one that looks like it could be something that we want to be able to do. Again, J.B. Miller, John Brough Miller, he taught ceramics and sculpture at Texas Women's University. He made a lot of these very large monumental steel sculptures, and he worked early out of his workshop garage in Argo, and his work is now located in five different states, and we actually have one of his sculptures. It used to be located, I believe, at the fire station, and it was moved across the street to the visual arts center. And so this is the piece that we're looking at. This is called Elevated Mass in Space. The cost is $2,900. This is a fairly large sculpture. That's 23 feet high from base all the way to the top, and it's five feet wide at the latest. We thought the location of this, we looked at a few locations of that, and possible is on Carroll Boulevard and any of those locations that we've already identified on Carroll Boulevard, where a future sculpture needs to go, or actually over at Clear Creek Natural Heritage Center. So we've prepared a few things. This is some of the areas that on Carroll Boulevard it could go. This is, because it's such a tall sculpture, it has a good visibility from a long way, and from a long walkway all the way across this area like here would work really well being able to see it from a distance, and as the angle changes, it really has a very interesting look of that whole upper section of the sculpture. And so there's a couple of other areas there that we could possibly see on Carroll, again following the walkway of areas that we've previously identified. And then these are some areas that we've looked at at Clear Creek. As I mentioned before, this is a very tall sculpture, and so if somebody's walking along the trail here, and then they can see this from a distance and then get a different angle on it all the way through, or people walking back this particular direction, or even here close to where the trailhead is right as a part of it. So those, we have some excellent locations, a variety of different ones. What we have is $2,900 for, we can take that, the funding out of unallocated CEO money that we have for public art. We have about $20,000 in it, and this only cost about $2,900 for it. I checked this morning, the piece is still available, and so if we wanted to purchase, we could do that if we wanted. Any questions? I have a question. I apologize for not being able to make the last few meetings because I was teaching during that time, but at one of the last meetings I was at, we were looking at a different local artist's work who also made kind of very similar large-scale steel abstract forms, and we had all decided that instead of spending money on those, we would prefer to put that money towards what we would consider sort of like the future of public art in Denton as opposed to the past. I know we've had a lot of discussions about doing more sort of like temporary projects and interdisciplinary projects, and I just wanted to clarify with the committee if that was still like a strong interest or a goal, because personally I think the money would be better spent going in that sort of future-oriented direction as opposed to kind of celebrating. I understand it's important to celebrate someone from the community from the past, but I'd personally be excited to go in a different direction. Alicia, I'll echo what you said. From the years I've been on this committee, I think that we are trying to look forward to the future of Denton, and I think that we were urged to and interested in being more experimental and trying the temporary art and seeing how many different directions we could explore, so I agree that I'm sorry I've missed the last few meetings because I've had a teaching engagement as well, but I would like to agree with Alicia there. It looks to me like with the tall sculpture there, a temporary mounting wouldn't be possible. Is that something? It seems like it would have to be pretty permanent, secured to the platform it's hosted on. Just to clarify, the temporary project I'm referring to is we had discussed creating a temporary public art program, which Denton currently doesn't have, so it's not that we would try to mount this temporarily. This would obviously be very permanent. It would be acquired into the collection, so I think instead of spending that money to acquire something else permanent, we would like to put it towards developing a temporary public program. At least that's what we talked about in the past. And that's absolutely, Michelle and Alicia are spot on, that was the decision that I think the entire committee came to last time around that this opportunity came up, and I think it's awesome that staff is looking at opportunities like this. I would kind of echo the same thing that Michelle and Alicia said. I'm more excited about the temporary art program. That's, I mean, obviously that's a rather large sculpture. I don't want to make a reference to the Benji movie again because I'll just get my age away, but that piece looks like the stuff that I've seen growing up in Denton since the 70s. It just doesn't look in the direction that we've discussed that we want public art to go. But it does raise the question about money that's available because I know my understanding was that this was like a kind of tight budget year in terms of money, but if there is money available, I know we've kind of been putting the temporary program off on a back burner because we didn't feel like we had the money or the resources for it right now. But if there is money available, maybe we need to move that in the future to a front burner discussion. Let's get it started. Let's do some of these light-based and temporary and the wraps and the interesting temporary stuff. Yeah, if there's money, let's do it. Let's make it interesting. So the agenda item for consideration C is to give staff direction regarding the purchase. So I guess we would probably need to vote on this, right? Yeah. If anyone wants to make a motion or I can make a motion. I would make a motion to not purchase it. I would second. So all in favor of not purchasing it. Please raise your hand. Aye. Aye. And rather than go around Robin, are there any nays? No nays. So the ayes have it in favor of not purchasing. But thank you very much for keeping your eyes on the lookout for stuff like that. Ed, this is Gary. Just as a general comment. So this came to us and we wanted to share it with the board, like you just mentioned. But I guess it would be good to get clarity on when things come like this, what do you want to see so we can identify what you may want and what we don't want to bring to you just so we're efficient with your time. And honestly, that didn't take very much time, but I don't want to waste your time, right? Sure. That would be my response is like, I don't want you to feel like waste your time collecting a bunch of information and like all those drawings you did about potential locations, I imagine. Right. It's a lot of time. And that those locations will be useful, I think, in the future for other projects. So it was not I don't I don't see it as time wasted. As far as bringing items like this to the committee, I don't want to say, yeah, keep doing it. We'll keep saying no, because there's certainly opportunities where I'm sure we wouldn't. So my feeling on it is bring them on and we'll talk about them and, you know, some other work gets done locations identified and we move on. And if somebody's offering, oh, go ahead. I was going to say, if somebody is offering us art, I would think that it would it would be best for us if the committee did get to take a look as a group of ordinary citizens. And instead of just saying, oh, the city turned us down or the city accepted. You could know that with confidence that the committee was also seeing what you were seeing. What turned my vote in aside from just going along with the planned and historical I'm new to this committee, so I'm just trying to follow what what others have proposed in the history of the committee. But I heard in part of that proposal that we already had a sculpture by this artist in town installed. So we've already kind of respected the history in that regard. Right. And I think also if further down the line, when we do start talking about the temporary art project and things of people, if we have, you know, members of the community and public looking back at our decision making and, you know, figuring out what we're our thought processes and they can, you know, watch and listen and kind of figure out what we're thinking and decision, I don't know, decision making and join in the conversation and things like that, but so is this a time to talk about that project or do we wait? It would have to have been submitted. Submitted. OK. Yeah. As we can in the items for discussion at the end of the meeting, I'm sure that could be brought up and asked to be put on the next meeting's agenda. But for the purposes of now, if there's no further discussion, we'll move on to item D. Item D, PAC 21-011, receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the North Lakes Dog Park sculpture. Ed, I think we may have skipped over one. There's one on graffiti. It was just a report into it. That's E, right? Yeah. Graffiti's E. Oh, OK. Yeah. My apologies. I even came prepared, so I didn't see that one was skipped. So yeah, receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the North Lakes Dog Park sculpture. OK. I'm going to share my screen. All right. Now this one has been a long time coming, and so I know with this, I think we went out three different times to be able to find an artist and a sculpture that was meeting the whimsical side of this. And our budget was $35,000, and now we're at the approval of the proposal. Our subcommittee has reviewed those different proposals, and the highest score by weighting and all the other averages I could possibly do was 23 Design Company proposal. And so the next step after this, if approved by the Public Art Committee, would be to take this to City Council. And so let's take a look. Everybody remembers the site location, so it's right there in the middle of the North Lakes Dog Park area. There is this area here or this pedestal that has lights that will shine up from below to the art piece. And the proposal is this. And so what we have is a piece that's called Fetch, and it essentially is the artist and the artist group went to the dog park itself, sat there and watched all the dogs playing and saw that the most common thing that was happening was a fetch type of arrangement. And so these dogs all leaping upwards to be able to get to the ball has that whimsical feel that people had, especially with the poor dog here being stepped on while getting up there. It is a total of 16 feet and about four feet in diameter and our pedestal that we currently have is about three feet. And so here's some other angles that is on this. You can see as it rotates around, it's very, of course, 3D for it. And you can see over here on this side, the poor dog that's there. And what from what I hear, this was actually a computer or generated thing of the artist's own dog that he put there. And so that's a part of it. And so this is what it is. It's made of aircraft aluminum that's powder coated. So it's really, really easy to maintain. It's very, it's light, it's modular, where things can be taken apart and put back together. And so maintenance is quite easy to do. The powder coating should last about 10 years to 20 years, even in our sun sunlight. And it can be repaired if there's any damage fairly easily for it. It's again, aircraft aluminum, and it also has stainless steel mounting brackets in the frames that hold it together. Okay, I should have done that again, 25 year up to a 25 year life before recoding. Are those colors the actual colors? That's the proposed colors, yes. And are those linear elements made out of like aluminum tubing or what are those? I believe so. That's the first thing that jumped out at me is I feel like a kid or an adolescent is just going to pull and swing on that and bend it. Is that possible? Is it malleable in that way? I don't believe so. And that little green dog there, that's, you know, prime spot for pets, like that good boy wants to get pet. So people are going to come up and take pictures with them and all that. Are we concerned that maybe the powder coating would transfer heat? I'm kind of a newbie, I don't know. Generally aircraft aluminum doesn't get that hot. It transfers heat very well, it distributes it pretty good, pretty well. And the coatings itself usually don't add much more heat, especially if they're more colorful like this, they're a little more reflective of that, of the heat. The other side of it is that this is there's not much room on top of the pedestal. In the artist's diagrams and things that he's got, it takes up pretty much the whole top. Would the, I know there were three light ports that essentially go up, are they, they're not obscured in any way, they took care to manage that, those light sources? I don't have a view that shows that, but the artist and the artist's team, they did go to the site and didn't expect it all. Yeah, it looks like that could be arranged such that it'll just be illuminated and not covered. I'm sure they'd take that into consideration. This really, this really fits the sentiment, I think, that we've been going for since the very beginning of this project. I know it's morphed a number of times, but the mirth, I like the low polygon look of the dogs. I think that's great. And Alicia, I think in the extended proposal when they had a lot more written out, I believe that they said the colors could be kind of adapted. The conversations that I've had with the artist, things can, all things can be adjusted to what we would need, and I can request the artist to give us more background on those long pieces. The only other question I had was about like a couple of the dogs had, because of that like polygon sort of aspect of the figures, some of their tails looked maybe potentially like kind of sharp, I don't know if that has been addressed with the artist or not, or I guess it could be in the future. I think we can talk to them about it. So if there's no further discussion, I would make a motion that staff move forward with the proposed piece. Second. Okay, all in favor. Aye. Aye. Any nays? No nays, so we are in agreement. Alicia seconded, right? Alicia seconded, right? Yeah, she did. Awesome. Just to double-check. Yes. Sorry? Yes. They're trying to trip me up, I'm not going to let them, Alicia. I heard the second. By the way, these are Denton artists, right, I'm curious who they are. Yes. I heard of them. 23 Design. Interesting. They have a cool brochure. Did you see the brochure, Alicia? No. I'll bet that we can get it to you. They've got bios and everything. Okay. Cool. Thank you. I'll send their proposal out to everybody. Nice. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, sorry. Some of them were sculpture alumni. Yeah, I wonder if they're part of that water jet company. The artist said that he uses students from UNT in the art program and then has them assist with the fabrication. So I think he gets good artists at a good rate and is able to produce this based on that. Cool. Thank you. Okay, if there's no further discussion, we'll move on to item E, PAC 21-009, receive a report and hold a discussion regarding a mural plan by Wirtmans at 1314 West Hickory. All right. I'll bring up another presentation here, just a moment. Okay. There it goes. All right. So this is just an informational piece for you. It's just to be able to make aware of when somebody is doing something around town. If we find out about it and if it involves art, but in this case, it's public art and it's on a private business wall, then there's no public funds and there's nothing that is invasive into any historical side of it. But just to give you everybody an idea of some of the things that people want to do and how they want to go about it. So just informational. It is on the side of Wirtmans. There's this alley that's next to Wirtmans and I'll show you that. So you can see this alley here that's in between these buildings and both of these buildings are owned by Wirtmans. And so this particular alley, it's more like this cutout and you can see what it looks like currently. And so they want to open up this entire space in here for graffiti, including this platform that's right here. And they're going to post their rules and that the graffiti stops at the walls there, but they can go in here and pretty much apply their graffiti art as they would want to. It doesn't require, again, any certificate of occupancy or anything because it's all painted out there. I think I've got some more pictures of it. Some of the dimensions, you can't really tell from that other, but you can look at it. It's about 15 feet deep, 10 feet tall, and 11 feet or so tall in the very far back over here. And you can see this platform, and I'm not too sure what it was used for before, but that one goes back 12 feet and then the platform's almost six and a half, six feet eight width here. Again, they are going to put together their rules and they're going to post those rules. Hopefully they don't put them on the inside because that looks like it's fair game from what they described. But what they'll be doing is monitoring that and seeing how that works. Other communities have had some graffiti walls that are designated. Some of those have been, I've seen trestles in areas of the railroad that have been designated. They're not usually right in the middle of town, but usually they're more in the peripheral type of areas, but it allows some of the artists that specialize in this particular style to be able to do that. Do you have any questions? Just a comment. I think it's great. I'm pretty familiar with that little nook going on campus, and it always was that anyway. So if they just embrace it, I think that's the correct usage of the space. Good point. Do you happen to know if they're going to put any lights around there or is it going to stay? They didn't tell me about any of those things. I just had a conversation with their social media director a few times, and she was just like, I just thought this would be a really great idea to be able to do that. They're not going to have like a holster of spray paints and things outside. It's going to be bring your own materials and all that. Well, they could sell spray paint at Vortmans and tell them, you know, go down the street and get some practice in. That could be a part of what they're doing. I don't know. Thank you, John. If there's no further discussion, that brings us to concluding items and general discussion or any agenda items we would like to have talked about on the next meeting. I'd like to submit on next meeting's agenda discussing temporary art projects and budgets for that, planning, whatnot. I'd like to thank staff for switching the day and time frame. I know that the other meeting scheduled during lunch didn't work for a lot of us. This is how we used to have them at 4 p.m. This works great. Hopefully it works great for everyone else, too, because it's a much easier time slot. With that said, do you want to try to meet next month, or do you want to push it maybe six weeks? I know trying to meet during the day was still a challenge. I know 4 o'clock is where we used to meet, but I think there was even some comments about trying to meet in the evening whenever we get back to in-person meetings. I'm not sure exactly when that's going to happen. It could be this summer. I don't know that answer yet, but as soon as we find out, we will get back to you. But if 4 o'clock on Friday is fine, we'll continue to work with that, and we can work with the same week of a month. I'm in favor of this day and time. And depending on whether we meet in four weeks or six weeks, I mean, we always have so much going on. I'd be fine with every month. Anyone else have an opinion on whether it's every four weeks or six weeks? I prefer four. It just seems like things get away the further out they are. And yeah, I do prefer more frequent, I guess you'd say, monthly meetings. I agree with COVID brain. I don't remember what I had for lunch today. So if we push it out too far, I'll just forget everything. If we plan more things, I think we kind of have to be on a little bit more regular schedule to make things kind of line up because, yeah, just my welcome. So our next meeting is scheduled for May 21 at 4 o'clock. That's what's scheduled. And we'll send you out a reminder on that. And we'll try to keep them to less than an hour from an agenda, if possible. So that way you're not too long and it also balances out staff schedule for production. But we do have a handful of things we want to bring back to you, such as the temporary art and then we'd like to try to get the fire department sculpture moving forward as well as the tennis center. So those are our three next pieces that we'd like to move forward. In just FYI, we have $20,000 in that unallocated budget. So we don't have a whole lot of money, depending on what the scope of that temporary art is. Does that money have to be used by a certain time? Good to see you. Yeah, that one, no. We do have hot funds money and that's what the tennis center and the dog park are. So we do need to get in vela. So we do need to get those moving. Can I add to the meeting schedule real quick? So right now I'm looking at the meeting schedule that was approved by PAC in the March, I think March 4 meeting. You guys approved it. I think the next one, what Gary has mentioned, would be May 21st. It was actually scheduled for the 20th, but that's on a Thursday. So I think Friday is going to work best. And then the next one after that would be July 1st because that would be the first Thursday. And I probably maybe might roll it, or we could still keep it as the first Thursday of the month. And I could still transfer it to Friday, you know, as a special called meeting, if you're all okay with that, because we don't know in the summer if, you know, we'll be back to evenings. And I would imagine it would be still Thursday at say five or six o'clock if it opens up. So I figured that Thursday would probably work best for everyone, unless if it's on a day, then I will transfer it to Friday. How does that all sound to you? Any backup? You said the next one after the May meeting would be July, are we not meeting June? Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, June 3rd would be June 3rd, it would be the first Thursday of the month, and then I can transfer to June 4th, which is Friday, unless we start meeting on the evenings, then we could keep it on the 3rd. And then July 1st would be the next, which would be the first Thursday. Again, I could just transfer it from, if it's going to be on a Thursday, I could transfer it on a Friday, we're going to meet on the daytime, but if we go back to the evening, then we'll keep it up the way you guys voted on it, which is the first Thursday of the month. Does that make sense? So does that mean we would meet at the end of May, and so our next meeting would be very not four weeks, it would just be very soon after. That's correct. So are you saying May 20th instead of 21st, just to clarify? Well, based on everyone's schedule, it seems that Friday would work best if we're not meeting after hours. So it would be May 21st, and then immediately two weeks later, we'll have the next PAC meeting to be back on a normal regular schedule. So it will be the first Thursday or Friday if it's going to be before after hours. So during business hours, Friday after hours, then would be Thursday. I think the four to five slot in keeping it to an hour works prior to moving it to noon. We always used to meet at four and it used to work out pretty well. Between Thursday or Fridays, I don't have a preference, the four o'clock time slot, that was very good for me. So Thursdays or Fridays, so four o'clock would be great. I just want to make sure Fridays aren't bad going forward with weekend vacations that type of thing. Well, I had all these travel plans. I'm like, oh, Friday's in the swimmer. So yeah, I kind of was like, no, I prefer Thursday personally. Okay. Okay. I wish I had travel plans. Yeah, a vacation at home. It's great. Don't leave the house. I have one more request, sorry, if we're done talking about scheduling. So just for clarification, Thursday or Friday is the preferred date. 4 p.m. Thursday or Friday. I think. But wait, Alicia, you said you prefer Thursday, is that correct? I do. Yeah. I have no preference. So Thursday at four is fine with me also. Thursdays are fine. Thursdays are fine. Okay. Hey, Michelle, Thursdays at four, good with you? You're muted. Sorry. I'm having butterfingers today. Thursday or Friday is fine at four for me. Yes. Okay, cool. I'm good either day. Okay. Thank you. So I had one more thing related to the future discussion about temporary public art projects. One other issue that has come up in the past or question, I should say, is related to whatever sort of like purchasing system is involved in like the funding of permanent works. I think it was either like something about like how the works are sort of purchased or how the artist is contracted. So I don't know if it makes sense for staff to sort of like look into those sort of like contracts, paperwork, legality issues in advance of us even talking about what's possible. Since it will be more like belonging. Yeah, it would be not like a permanently required thing, the way that permanent things are. Yeah, it would be like a stipend that they would be given for a temporary lease of maybe two or three years. So we'll provide that in our report for the next meeting. Awesome. Thank you. I just wanted to, because we had y'all work so much extra for the dog park and going back and forth with requests and doing another call for artists and, you know, I just wanted to give you an extra show of appreciation because I know that was a lot more work. But I'm really, really, really happy with what we settled on. And I think it's pretty much exactly kind of where we wanted to go with it. And so thank you very much. I really appreciate all your extra work for that. Yes, thank you. I do too. It took, it took, we kind of gave y'all a beating for a while there, so thank you. I love the art that got picked as well. I think it's fabulous. Yeah. Same here. Thank you. Thank you so much. I think people are going to really, really enjoy it. It's super fun. And I'm, I think, I think it just, thank you. Okay. Well, Ed, I had one other thing just to kind of give you as a closing comment. I don't know if anybody had a chance to watch or was interested in watching the city council meeting on Tuesday, but council member Davis proposed a concept to the city council members for staff to look into a piece of art that would be interactive with water as a water feature for razor ranch property. It's a new park that they just, we just acquired from the development, it was part of our parkland dedication and development ordinance and process. It's just shy of 10 acres. It's located just behind Winko. If you guys want to take a ride out there this weekend, you can check it out. It's a linear park. It's open space with a lot of trees. It has a lot of sidewalks or I should say trails within the park and lighting and open space where you could take your dog out there and throw a frisbee. But they would like to put some piece of art out there that was interactive with water. So they've asked staff to put together a report and report back to city council and to work with the public art committee. So that's going to be another item that's going to be on the agenda for next month. Okay. Good. Interactive like as like a splash pad or like for dogs, people either. Kind of. Yes. There's a piece of art in Spokane, Washington. It's a rotary piece that is pretty significant. It was $1.5 million. I think John, it was 1.4 and it had all kinds of artistic features to it. And then there was also a water play feature to it as well. They have put in quite a bit of renovations to it as well. So that's got to be something that's going to be under consideration as long-term maintenance and the impact of water to the art. So that's the challenge and opportunity that council has provided staff and the public art committee to look into. If you do a search, it's the rotary fountain is what it's called in Spokane. Is that is that siting given as an example or are you suggesting a, did he mention it as like he wanted to buy that or what are we saying here? I think it was an example. It was an example. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Look forward to talking about that on the next meeting. All right. Well, if there are no more concluding items, that's a wrap for the public art committee on April 16th. Michelle's raising her hand. Oh, sorry, Michelle. You're muted. Are you waving goodbye? I think she's waving goodbye. Okay. Sorry, Ed. That's okay. So thanks everyone. Thank you, staff, all for all the good work and everyone stay safe. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Thank you.