Mar 25, 2021 Board of Ethics on 2021-03-25 10:00 AM

Okay, good morning, everybody. This is the regularly scheduled monthly meeting of the Board of Ethics about 1001, and we'll begin. We'll just jump right into it. And the first item for consideration is receive nominations and hold an election for chair and vice chair. And I think I might ask Trayor Madison how it works. I guess it's we do chair first and then move on to vice chair. Okay. All right. So I will open up, open up to nominations. I nominate you. Okay. All right. Is there any discussion? Not seeing any un-muting or hands. So I guess I'll take a vote on the motion for me to continue as chair. And by the way, so I was elected in the middle of 2019 and then 2020 came when we would usually have elections in the beginning of the year, but COVID happened. And then we were going to have elections in January, but we were waiting for all the, all the appointments. And so that's why we're now in March. I promise I'm not like trying to like stronghold the power if anybody else wants it. But I just wanted to make that clear that I, you know, that's why we're here. The nomination, we've only had one election in almost, you know, two years or so. Anyway, I will hold a vote and starting with Bob. Aye. Ronnie. Aye. Rob. Thumbs up. Patricia. Aye. Annetta. I think she said aye, but you're muted. You just give a thumbs up or a aye. Okay. Oh, you unmuted and unmuted again. Annetta, unmuted and then muted again. And we didn't hear a vote. Sorry. Aye. Okay. All right. So we got that. I'll just abstain. I feel weird voting for myself, but the motion passes. Laura, I forgot our newest member. Oh, I'm sorry. Dustin, our newest member. Aye. Well, wow. Still voted for me, even though I forgot about you. Thanks. Okay. So I think, I think the, the motion passes and I guess I'll, I'll be chair until next year after appointment when we'll have another election. And now I'll ask for nominations for vice chair. I know last year we had Sharla I don't know if I'll be nominating her again. Like I think she does a good job, but I know that she has, you know, during the day meetings are hard, I believe because of her work. And I understand I've missed a couple over COVID because of work meetings. So I'll open up the floor for nominations for vice chair. I would like to nominate, to renominate Sharla if she's, if she would be open to it. I guess I'm not sure. Are there any rules Madison or Trey about someone that's not currently present being nominated? I'm not aware of a rule that says that they have to be present to be nominated. So long as they're a full member of the board. Yeah. I've always been told if you're not there, get ready. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. And I second the motion. Okay. So the motion, we have a motion, we have a second. I'll say, I mean, I think she does a good job. My only concern is making meetings, but I think, honestly, I think a lot of us have missed, you know, I don't know if any of us have made it every single meeting during COVID just because it is during the day. And I think most of us, it's not all of us still work. Madison, did you raise your hand? Yeah. I was just going to say if you do elect Sharla and she does not want to continue, we could just, if she lets us know that, then we could just have another election next meeting if need be. Okay. That sounds like a plan. Is there any more discussion on Sharla? And I'll just chime in that, right. If somebody were here, they could always decline the nomination. She's not here to decline the nomination, but she could always not accept it later and we can bring it back. Okay. Thank you, Trey. And thank you, Madison. Any more discussion or should we move to voting? Not seeing anybody jump in. All right. We'll move to voting. Bob? Aye. And myself, Laura Tomlin, I vote aye. Ronnie? Aye. Rob? Yes. Dustin? Aye. Patricia? Aye. And Annetta? Aye. Okay. So we have a vice chair elected. And like they said, if she doesn't want it, we'll just hold another vote next meeting. Okay. Next on the agenda is the discussion about, I'm going to share my screen real quick. Discussion about the 2021 meeting schedule. So in the past, we've had meetings the last Thursday of every month. And before COVID, we would have them, I think about 5, 5.30 at night. Well, now we have to have them between 9 a.m. and 3 for the start time and any day except Tuesday. I would say we just keep going with the last Thursday of the month. And I would, oh, go ahead, Madison. I just, as a point of order on there, on where it says future meeting dates, June 25th, it should be June 24th. That would be the last Thursday. It's just a typo. Oh, okay. Thank you. As I was saying, I, you know, I don't, I guess any days is probably, you know, I would guess probably not Fridays are good, but any other day seems okay. I would say start at three would probably be best for me. I'm not sure about everybody else who has a job, but the later in the day is probably the more likely I'll be able to make the meeting. Is there, does anybody have any thoughts about what days and what times to have meetings? For me, mornings are a lot better. I, I work till nine at night. So three is when things start heating up. But if it's better for everybody else, I'll, I can find a way to make it work. Well, I like the Thursday at three o'clock. Three is good for me. Let's see. Rob or Dustin, Patricia, do you all have thoughts? That works for me. My, I, my schedule is very flexible, so I can do three or any, just about any time. Yeah. Madison, we can try to get the, them on three at three o'clock as, as much, sorry, as best as possible. Sometimes there are meetings scheduled way out there that I've already taken our date or our time. So we'll definitely let you know, obviously what time it is before it's that day. But yeah, we can definitely shoot for three as much as possible. I think the other thing to note is at some point the city is going to be opening back up. So we may be able to go back to in-person meetings in the evening. We just don't really know what time at this point, we're just not really sure how that will work and when that will start happening. So that's, that's kind of where we're at right now. Okay. And Rob, did you have any thoughts on timings of meetings? No, I'm fine with, I'm flexible, just like Patricia, just, and it'll work. And it sounds like we're going to kind of put it in pencil and then possibly have to change it around anyway. But for right now, I'm happy with what, what the group thinks. I think more people said three works than the morning. So I would say, I don't know if we need a vote on this. I think this is just maybe guidance. So I would say we try to do like the last Thursday at three, and then it'll kind of be like over the last year. If that changes, we'll just email everybody, you know, as soon as it advances, as you know, Madison. Yes, Madison. I was just going to say, is it more of a priority for it to be at three than on the last Thursday? Because if we know that three o'clock is taken for the last Thursday, we could potentially look at a Thursday before or the Thursday after and see if three is available. That time is available. It just depends on what y'all would prefer a regular date or regular time. I guess, I mean, I guess I would kind of go toward a regular date, so I just know what day it's coming. But for me personally, as an attorney or as a prosecutor, I mean, if I have a hearing or something that they usually don't ask me the prosecutor. So, you know, if I can't make it, I'm just not going to be able to make it. And I'm not going to know until maybe a week in advance. You know, I guess maybe we'll just just stay flexible, Madison, and we'll just, you know, we could even send out it, you could even send out an email, if it can't be at Thursday at three, if there's a lot of different choices, and we're not sure what will be best, we could just send out an email and stay flexible, especially, you know, until in-person meetings resume, which, you know, who knows, maybe this year. Any more thoughts on that from anyone? Mine is the same, flexible, because, you know, I work at a funeral home, so I'm not always meeting available day or night. So I just, whenever we have it, I can make it, I can make it. So three is fine as just as any day, or 10. Yeah. Any more thoughts on that? I don't see any. So as long as there's not, we'll move on to the approval of minutes for the last two meetings. We're both on February 25th. There was a special panel meeting in the morning over advisory question by Paul Metzmulser. And then we had our regular meeting at three, which I don't remember if it was work or the contract business going on at my house, but I know I was very late for it, and I apologize for that. So I read through those. I didn't see any problems. Are there any more? Did anybody have anything to say about those minutes? Anything to alert Madison to? Okay. Is there a motion to accept those minutes from both of those meetings? I can move approval to the meeting, the regular meeting, but I wasn't at the hearing. So I think somebody who was there should move approval for that. Okay. So Neta has moved approval for the regular meeting. Is there a second? A second. Ronnie second. So we'll vote on the regular meeting. Bob? Aye. Myself, Laura, aye. Ronnie? Yes. Rob? Yes. Dustin? Aye. Patricia? Aye. And Neta? Aye. Okay. And then, yes, Ronson. Aye. I don't believe that anybody that was on the panel is actually in today's meeting. Okay. I think it was Dawn, Debra, and Ron. Oh, that's right. It was. I think we can, I mean, it was sent, go ahead, Trey. Yeah. I was just going to say, it works that you're taking them up separately. I mean, that makes a clean record, and it's great. Just under the rules of order, your rules of procedure, you do not have to have been at the meeting to approve either move or vote on the approval of the official minutes of the group. Then I'll go ahead and amend my thing to say approval for both, and then maybe we should revote. No, I think it's okay that we've already taken the vote for the regular, and we'll just take up the special one as a separate vote. I move approval for that. Okay, so Neda moves for approval of the special panel meeting minutes. Is there a second? Second. Bob is seconded, and we'll vote on that. Bob? Aye. Myself, Laura, aye. Ronnie? Yes. Rob, are you able to vote? Yes, Mamma, yes. Sorry. Okay. And Dustin? Aye. Patricia? Aye. And Annette? Aye. Okay, so both of those minutes have been passed, and we'll move on to the last agenda item, and that's the Receiver Report, Hold a Discussion, and Give Staff Direction Regarding Proposed Ethics Complaint Process Packet, and so now we have the narrative with the step-by-step of filing a complaint and in the process of a complaint in a hearing. We have the flowchart that's kind of more of a visual picture of the complaint process, and then there's also a timeline. Madison, did you want to talk about any changes from the last meeting to now? Yeah, I'll just say, just to make some things clear, the numbers in the narrative are supposed to match up to the numbers on the flowchart. Since there was more detail in the narrative and they correspond, some of the boxes on the flowchart are not quite as detailed anymore, or the flowcharts have been changed slightly just to make them easier to kind of go back and forth and make the flowchart a little bit easier to read. The timeline really hasn't changed. It wasn't changed substantively, and so I think that's basically it, and just for Dustin, this is a packet that's really supposed to help both board members and members of the public understand the ethics complaint process if they want to. So, ordinance can be hard to read sometimes. I read through this and I thought it was well done, and I was able to follow it, and I'm pretty new to this, so it was helpful. Excellent. Good test. Yeah, I want to say, Madison, I know you put a ton of work into this, and I think for those who are complaining, it'll be a lot more clear what the process is. So, I think that's going to help a lot. Yeah, with all three of these, I don't think anybody can complain because whether you're better at reading or visualization or a chart, it's got everything. I think the only things that I saw in there were in the narrative on section 17C. I think that's supposed to be proceed to step 19, and then in the last paragraph of step 18, I think the second to last sentence should be proceed to step 21. Yes, we'll make those corrections. Laura had brought those up in an email as well, and then I did also, when I was making the changes that Laura previously brought up, basically those two sentences at the end of step 18 in the last paragraph, if sanctions are imposed, dot, dot, dot, I added those to the end of step 19 as well, because they kind of should be going to the same places. Right, okay. I guess for me, are there any other changes that anybody feels should be made, or any further clarification? Rob? I'd like to ask, I was on the preliminary assessment chart, flow chart. Number seven, could the ethics complaint be frivolous? If it was a no, it would be dismissed. If it was a yes, it would go to the evidentiary hearing process. I wasn't at the last meeting, so would that not be flipped the other way, in that if it could be frivolous, wouldn't it go to the hearing, and if it's not frivolous, it would be dismissed, or did I miss something? So according to the rules of procedure, the preliminary assessment panel, if they believe that the ethics complaint might be frivolous, they can recommend that it go to a full hearing. I guess maybe this will answer it, Rob. So we're only asking whether it's frivolous after we've found that it's not actionable. So it's not actionable already, and then if it's not frivolous, it's dismissed, and if it's frivolous, or if we think it might be frivolous, is when it goes to evidentiary hearing about whether it was frivolous. Does that make sense? Yeah, I guess the word frivolous just seems like to me as in why are we even talking about it? I don't see it in a legal term, but that's fine. That's why I was asking that question. Yeah, frivolous is a specifically defined term in the ethics ordinance, which is why that's what's used here. Yeah. Well, that's what my grandfather used to call me, and so that's why I thought I just missed it as being frivolous. Okay. Thank you. Any more questions? For our new member, I think this might be the third meeting. I think every meeting this year we've talked about these charts, at least in part, to get them to where they're understandable and correct under the code. Okay, so as far as if we approve these today, I would like some direction just on what to do with them. My recommendation would be obviously put them on the board's website so that anybody can view them. I would also think that perhaps the board would want this packet sent to complainants once they file a complaint. Originally, one of the things that we had discussed was when we just had the flowchart was attaching the flowchart to any meetings for complaints, so we would attach the correct flowchart. If we had a preliminary assessment, the preliminary assessment flowchart would also be included in that backup. So my question is just do you want those things to happen? Is that the direction you'd like to give if you approve these today, or is there something else you'd want them to do basically? I would think we'd put them on the website and send them to complain, and that might help. Sometimes we've gotten complaints, and I think it might help them, especially if their complaint is maybe found baseless or not administratively complete. It'll help them to be able to refile it if they wish. It might help them understand that it's going to be found baseless, so they shouldn't even complain. So I think it helps explain to them what this code is like. I hope I'm saying that nicely enough. I have a question. Should this go to the council for any kind of a stamp of approval? I don't think it has to, if you would like it to. Not necessarily. We'll give it another three meetings. Yeah, I would say this is kind of an internal thing. It's not anything new. It's just a kind of reorganization. You haven't changed anything. All right. Is there any more thoughts? I can look at the agenda information sheet. Do we need an official vote to approve these and put them on the website, or do we just kind of give you direction that they're approved and to put them on the website? You do not need an official vote, just direction to staff to move ahead. Okay. Is there anybody against approving these, this packet? Okay. So the direction I'm hearing is take the packet as it is, as we talked about the amendments to it, the couple of little things, and post them on the city's website so that anyone can view them on the Board of Ethics webpage. And then also to, if the complaint is submitted, send the packet to the complainant at the beginning of the process. And that's the direction I've heard so far. Is there anything else? Do you want me to send it to the respondent? Do you want me to include some of this information at meetings in the future? I don't know. You could think of something else, I suppose. I guess, you know, I would say, I don't know how everybody else feels. Now that the respondent gets the complaint, I would say go ahead and send it to them. You know, why not? And as far as the board, you know, especially like, you know, as year to year, since there's turnover, you might just either include it or include just a link to where it is on the website in, in packets for when we have either, you know, one of the hearings or preliminary hearings that are, that are explained in the packet. I agree. Yes. I think I'm seeing agreement. Anybody have any, anything else to say regarding the packet and where it's posted when it's sent out? I think it's a big step forward from what we had. So I think it's good. Okay. I'm not seeing anybody else jumping up. So I think, and is that everything you need from this agenda item, Madison? Yeah, I think so. Thank you all for working on this with me. I really appreciate it. I hope it will be helpful to y'all and to interested members of the public. All right. Well, that went a lot quicker than last time, I think. So, you know, maybe we should have added another agenda item, but I know when me and Madison are kind of discussing items, we don't want to, you know, make it to where we don't, you know, we don't get through half the items. So today we, we put two little things because it's 1026 and we're out of items. So I would say for next meeting, I know Madison kind of has a list of things that that we need to talk about, but and Madison, you can jump in. Do you want people to email you with any other ideas like a week, 10 days? What do you need before the next meeting? Yeah, typically we have been asking for any items that the board would like to discuss the, like the Wednesday, the week before the meeting. So if our next meeting is on the 29th of April, the 21st is when we would want items by. I do have a list. We were, we were also kind of just waiting to see where the election went and to make sure we had everybody who was new to the board on. So would you like me to send out that list to see if there are items that people, you know, people would like to prioritize them or? Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Just everybody do not reply all cause we don't want to get, we don't want to, you know, there's the open meetings act and we don't want to go afoul of that. I'll blank copy everyone. Okay, great. Yeah, I think that would be a good idea so that we can gauge, you know, what the board finds most important of the issues we've already come up with. And you know, actually Madison, if, if you want, maybe we could, you could, we could push the deadline for new items to discuss earlier so that you can include just everything everybody's thinking about and we can prioritize what to talk about at the next meeting. I think that's a great idea. What if we, let's see, give everybody at least a couple of weeks to get items in. What if we get the items by the ninth Friday, the ninth of April? That's basically two weeks from today. That gives me a week to kind of take it all in and organize it into a list and then send it out that Monday on the 12th and then y'all can have a week to respond and that way we have enough time to get the agenda together. Does that sound good to everyone? That sounds good. Yes, Rob. There was, make sure that I understand that there would be new items and then items that we had brought up that were going to be put on hold until after the council voted the new members in and such. Those particular items, will they be presented at that time as well, Madison? Yes. So once, once we have any new items that people would like, I'll send out basically a list of this is all the items that people have brought up for discussion. That will include any new items and the old items that we've already discussed and then we'll prioritize those basically to, I'll send out that and the council can prior, sorry, the board will prioritize them and then we can kind of go from there on the agenda. Obviously we don't want to talk about everything at once because we have too many hours long of a meeting so. I had submitted, if you remember, a couple of items that, and we, you mentioned, wanted to wait until after the new council members in and such, which was fun. I just want to make sure those weren't all through the cracks. No, they'll be included on that list for priorities. Thank you. Okay. If there's, is there anything else from anyone for this meeting or, okay. All right. I'm not seeing anybody jump up. So I guess it is 1030 unless Madison or Trey to have anything to say. We will adjourn this meeting and I thank everybody for their time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.