Feb 09, 2026 Historic Landmark Commission on 2026-02-09 5:30 PM

All right. I'm going to call the meeting to order. It is at 530 p.m. exactly. And so if you will join me in standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. All right. I don't think we have anyone from the audience unless y'all see something I know. Now we need to move to number HLC 26-007. Consider the approval of the January 12th minutes. I hope you all had a chance to read those. I didn't see any revisions. All right. All in favor of approval, say aye, raise your hand. Now we are moving to item number HLC 26-008. I'd like to chair and advice chair to the Historic Land Commission. And for this, so we open up the floor. Let's start with the chair, if we could. We will open it up for a motion. And I'm going to start off with a motion and I'm going to make a motion for Fish and Retreat for Chairman. Does that mean you are unwilling to serve again? I think maybe just spread in the love. Is that what this is? Just spread in the love. Famous romantic text Robert's rules of order. So procedurally, we would receive nominations and if there's one who doesn't want to do it, they wouldn't move forward and then we would take a motion to consider one of the nominations if there is more than one. If that succeeds, then we're good to go. If it doesn't succeed, we talk about another nominee. Well, I'd like to make a motion for Shipley to continue in the stable position of chair. As long as she's not opposed. So do we have any other nominations? Is it possible to ask the nominees to maybe do a 30 second spiel on their attitude towards, you know, chairpersonship and what they will bring or not bring and do they actually want the thing in the first place? So yeah, procedurally they do need to accept the nomination. And yeah, if you want to give you an elevator pitch, I don't have a legal problem with that. Can we move that motion ceased? We can. What does this motion mean to cease? Cease the chair. So these are only two options. Okay, so those are two options. Close the nominations. Well, chair and vice chair. Sean, would you like to go first? Sure, I'm for it. It's great. It what? I mean, for all of it, for all the history things. So yeah, I mean, I don't guess there's a pitch except to say I'd be present and diligent and I'm up for it. That's also a reason I nominated Angie to continue in the position because I feel like she's very capable and has demonstrated exceptional leadership. Thank you. I would accept it as well. I have been serving here on the Historic Land Commission for, I was trying to go back and look and it's been at least seven years. Six or seven years that I've been and I think it's time to all off. I mean, I think for the statue, isn't there a time frame? Well, I can't. I don't know. If the time frame exists where you are in it, I would have to. Yes, so I'm very passionate about it. I live in the Historic District. And I'm passionate about what's going on in the history of Denton and to preserve that and to get more of, to not let them lapse. So I'm really looking forward to the committee. This has nothing to do with me doing this. I'm looking forward though to the committee. That's for me. But yes, I would serve as well. Great. I don't mean to drive this, but it sounds like the pitches have been achieved. So now we're into like, would someone like to make a motion to nominate one of these two people? Well, to accept one of these two people as chair? Because they've been nominated. I so move. Who would you like to move to be chair? Her. Thank you. I forget everybody's name. So if we have that in a second, then do we vote? So get your second. All right. All in favor for it to be me. Thank you. Thank you all. All right. For vice chair. We need a motion for vice chair. Like to make a motion to nominate Sean. I like that. Anyone else making any motions? Okay. We have a motion and a second for it to be mission or treat. All in favor raise your right hand. Say aye. Aye. There you go. Thank you. Like how easy that was. Thank you. No worries. It was just like this actually is parliamentary style, so like, hey, my reason for being, let's go. Rebels. Oh, reference rules. Yeah, exactly. So we're going to move on to number HL25-0004. We're going to hold a public meeting and determine whether there is a present expense resulted in a permanent improvement or restoration of a local historic landmark property located at 3316 Rose Lawn Drive. The site is located on the northeast corner of Rose Lawn Drive and Rose Lawn Circle. Cameron. Good evening, chair, commissioners. As stated, this property is 3316 Rose Lawn Drive. The owner is Leanne Todd. This property was recently designated in December, so they're coming forward for tax exemption. It is a local landmark. So talking about the improvements and restoration that were done, they did add a concrete aerobic system to the property. And they did additional work to fill in the old one, get those additional pipes removed. And then they also installed additional electric and wiring to run that aerobic system, totaling $13,200. Is this a septic system? Yes. So staff is looking at Section 10-128C, which does allow for work two years prior to designation to be put towards the application for the historic tax exemption. And this work was completed in the spring of 2024. So staff does find a favorable determination that the expenses presented resulted in permanent improvement and/or restoration to the landmark property at 3316 Rose Lawn. And it does meet that minimum of $10,000. And I can stand for any questions. I'll bring that back up to you. Any questions from the commissioners? I do not have any questions on the septic system. The electric, do you know what that was? That was tied to getting the whole system to run. So they had to clean out the old and add additional electric. I don't have a septic system, so I don't know how that works. Essentially, you can't flush your toilets or use the bathroom. No, I don't know. It's all about historic, but you know. If it's historic, it's cosplaying. I'll move to approve this. I'll second. So we have a motion and a second. I do have a question. Do they not have opportunity to go on city services? They were not willing to pay for it to connect to city services. So they're in the jurisdiction where they could. They chose to keep it this way. I'm sure it probably hasn't always been in the jurisdiction. I'm sure that's why. Clearly it would have had a septic system. I assume if they did that, they would have been eligible for the same. What we're talking about today. Yes, this property was annexed into the city in 1960. So it's in the county prior to that. What would the rough cost of hooking up to your city services be? Do you not? I do not. That's fine. That's really fast. I would have heard that so they're not giving them another one in 20 years, 30 years when that septic system breaks. But I guess I don't get that choice. Give, keep on giving. I'll maintain my motion. Okay, we have a motion on the table to approve in a second. Any other discussion or thoughts? All right. Well, I will take a vote. All in favor raise your right hand and say yes. All right. Looks like most. Lenny, did you do a second? All right. Motion passes. Thank you guys. All right. The next item for AHLC 26-004 on the agenda is to receive a report and hold a discussion regarding Dent Reveal Preservation Month 2026 and the Historic Landmark Commission participating in a month long event. Yes. So just wanted to kind of give you all the preliminary schedule events that we have for right now for Dent Revealed. It is our, it's going to be the fifth annual, which is very exciting. And there's some additional events to be finalized. But I would love for the Historic Landmark Commission to have a discussion and hopefully play a role in this fifth annual. Because it's just continued to grow over the past five years and we're very excited. So we always have the proclamation, which I always send an email out to you all kind of ahead of time. So attend right, if not, no big deal, but those are actually going to be in April this year just to kind of give us a lead up to May and get people excited about that. And then to kick it off, we are going to do a Southridge Neighborhood Walking Tour just because we just finished, you know, the Southridge Historic Resource Survey. And last year's DNU Neighborhood was a huge success. So we figured that let's just keep that momentum going and kick it off with Southridge. We do have two story times. We actually have Lewisville participating this year. They're going to do a children's story time on May 5th. And then we always have our annual Emily Fowler one that happens on Wednesday, which is what they do monthly anyways. But they always do one for preservation month. So we'll be keeping that. The Emily Fowler Library is also going to do on May 16th a Legacy Lab Tour. So you are going to, it's going to be limited in terms of the amount of people who can attend. But just talking about what the Emily Fowler Library offers in terms of, you know, preserving different documents, photographs, all that kind of stuff. They have that on hand. So they'll be talking through that. We also have the Den Historic Bar Tour, which has been going on. That needs to be finalized the exact date and time. It's usually a Saturday, but I believe last year was a Sunday or maybe I'm getting confused, but it's usually on the weekends. And then Fine Arts Theater Lecture. Den Revealed team did speak with Brad Andrews and he is down to host a lecture. He's not sure if he'll be ready for a tour necessarily, but he does want to participate and work with creating an event for Den Revealed. We always do a cemetery tour. We think it might be the old Alton Cemetery. We're trying to get final confirmation on that exactly. And then we have our Denton Vintage Short Film Fest, which we did for the first time last year. We had over 80 people show up. It was a huge hit. So that's definitely going to happen, but we need to finalize the timing with UNT CoLab. So we're almost there with a few of those, but just kind of want to show you all the preliminary schedule of events. You don't have to decide what kind of event you all do tonight, but I thought at least we'd open the discussion and get some ideas flowing. That means we can bring back at a future meeting to get this on schedule for Den Revealed. But I will let you all know that we are hoping to start advertising this at the beginning of April. So probably next meeting would be when you all need to finalize what kind of event you want to do so we can get it on the calendar. To clarify, these are all already happening. You're looking to us to think of another idea that we could contribute to add to this. And if you all don't want to participate, you'd rather just volunteer for these events, that's fine as well. But I also wanted to give you guys an opportunity to participate, especially because it's our fifth year. I would just say I run a large event at my college that's on April 27th. So my preference would be, if I'm going to participate, would be that it's later than that, like that first week of May or something like that. Oh yes, so Preservation Month, just to give you all background, is only during the month of May. So we only have these proclamations ahead of time in April to kind of make the announcements. So I'll kick this out there just because I've already had discussions with him about it. And I think it's germane to our mission here is I can ask Randy Hunt with Historic Denim if he'd be interested in Historic Homes Tour on Oak for First Friday. Maybe that might make a good kickoff. And I know that's a little early, but that could also be a good thing because that's usually a good draw and it might help build some bridges with Randy. But I know that he and I are actually talking about doing some neighborhood work together and putting together some story walks this spring. So it just seems like that's like a two birds with one stone situation. How was the turnout? They did one in the fall, right? It was their biggest yet. Awesome. Yeah. In different homes from people beyond that tour. Yes, correct. Right, and it was bumper to bumper. And I like that one just because it was you could wander from spot to spot and each spot had its own dosons, right? So that's where I would like to talk to him tonight after the John B. Denham Forum and see if I can get interest and their neighborhood group helping with that aspect of it. So maybe we could like co-do it. And I think that would be because it's hugely popular. Yeah, people love going to see those homes. So we've already got the Southridge walking tour going on, so that supports the effort towards a historic conservation district in Southridge. I would love it if we could figure out some way to use this month to build support and awareness of your campaign for a Locust historic slash conservation district, as well as to raise awareness of some of those financial programs that open the city that we talked about earlier in the year that do not seem to have a lot of awareness with those as well. I don't know what those events would look like, but it seems like if we have a goal for what we want an event to do, we can then build an event around that. I was just hoping to offer a competing historic art tour. What would you like to see in your art tour? Because I'm actually, I think I'm pretty sure I'm going to be helping that group with that one. But not as in my function here. I don't have any ideas. Just a second. Just a general like, yes, more. There was one of the first years that this happened. There was like the den trivia, which is pretty fun. You as a team one more excellent couldn't beat the hundred years of Gregory's. But that was, I don't know, there was like a decent turnout. Maybe like 40 or so people that did like didn't trivia didn't county brewing with all different kinds of categories, whether it was arts and culture, you know, the physical space. Because I think that would be. Yes, that's a blast. But just also circle back to John Black's idea. I would love to see us do something that also showcases our work and our projects. Right. And so something that actually gives people an awareness like here are things that we're working on. So they go, oh, wait, I'd like to know more. Or I'd like to get involved in that. I see that as a huge opportunity for both promoting what we're doing, but also generating interest in people becoming citizen participants. I agree with you, and I mean, I was just thinking kind of a if we could host maybe a reception of some kind, informative to give that information have maybe on the screen going through houses that a PowerPoint that's flipping on. This is the work that we have done. Yeah, and especially the ones that have become the historic that have been deemed that, you know, we've done the picture you sent us. Yeah, that one, some of those. And then also, I'm going to just throw this out here. This tax credit that we just approved. There are a lot in historic districts that are not aware of that. And you just that type of information, we don't really even have to, if we just have a reception and we're walking around, and we have that flipping Hey, did you know, but did you know about the task tax credit. Did you know about the presentation that we have where they allocate so many dollars a year. Hey, did you know. Just that type of thing, and I think with it being five year, it could be our five year reception. And who do we invite me we can invite the community but I would like to send out things, the historic people, North Locust and being as a part as a possibility. And anything else, so they can see the benefit to them. And so I want to see if we can explore that because the one of the things that works really well. For example, the historic bar tour, the fine arts theater lecture, the cemetery tour receptions after these events to tie into some of these events that are already happening your people a place to land, and then they are able to see and absorb this rather than that's trying to create something separate and and not that we can't do that to right, right, but I'm just thinking like is there a way we can piggyback on all these things and basically kind of help take some credit for the work we do. No, I'm with you. So, brainstorm on location and where we could do that if we could tag it tack it on to the bar tour, what location would that look like do a reception. Sure, or even the fine arts lecture that theater lecture that might be a great way to start with like a central gathering. And I don't know if the research subcommittee can realistically commit to this but it would be cool if we could offer a few stories about how local districts, sure, to kind of bring out. So for legal purposes we probably need to post these in case we're all at these events. We need to do that. Yes. Yeah, like y'all seem really engaged and so it seems likely that we would get a forum and some are most of these and I think that's neat. So yeah, I would be a notice of possible forum. Which y'all don't have to worry about that would be on the, I guess I would post those. Perfect. I did. I like your idea, Angie and I think that that's really good, but I know I was wondering how do we get people to come. I mean, what is it that's going to make them want to come. So, I think, combining it to another one is a great concept too. I'm not sure which one. As many as we can. I mean, because I'm looking their legacy lab tour, you could have something before the tour while people are waiting around the story time same thing. The walking tour, maybe, I don't know that'll be out and about a little bit more. Well, as I say, so I'll just give kind of my feedback of what I've observed over the last. So, for the last year with DNA neighborhood, doing the plaques reveals prior to, I think that brought in a lot more people who otherwise would not have known or participated. In the walking tour. So I think, you know, sending something out inviting council members and I think that kind of elevates it. And I think that is helpful, especially for those council members who do have. Historic properties or districts in their neighborhood obviously that's gonna be right at the beginning of the elections are going through that so might be a little complicated so we might want to push it back because it could introduce some of the new council members to what's going on and. Everything, everything like that, but I will say having something before DNA neighborhood walking tour. Huge, made a huge difference, especially got people excited for the rest of the month and I think it gave us a lot more numbers for events throughout the rest of the month. Cemetery, cemetery tours are always our biggest number one hit, we probably have close to 100 people every single time we do a cemetery tour, which is huge. We ended up having a ton of people at that one, but it's still kind of a different group different vibes so I think you also have to think about what are the people that you're trying to aim for as well, because I think it's some of these events you're going to get folks who are interested in history, but they might live in a brand new build, and it's not necessarily it's not the correct audience that you're necessarily trying to reach so I do think you all need to kind of think through that. But I do think pairing with Southridge or pairing me with the fine arts theater lecture, those are probably going to be the best ones out of what we have currently that you're going to get kind of the audience that you want without having to create a separate of essentially a separate event on a different day and time. Thank you. I'm thinking though, to your point to try to gather North Locust and Elm, that group. Information, fine arts, totally different parts who are I don't know that I don't have the details on the parts who have assuming it's like downtown. Yeah, yes. Or one of the things that Emily Fowler. Like I guess you could be like oh it's story time for kids but hey adults we got a story for you too. Is there enough data and stories to pull off a locust walking tour at this point in time or is that is that premature. That would be difficult, because of a traffic. Fair enough. And be because of how spread out it is. Okay. So that, so that would be it would be a slog. And there's not even a park down there like to be a central rally point. There's a parking lot if it's on the off time. Right. I mean you could do the, like, three and 400 blocks which were a lot of businesses. But I don't know that that's okay. I mean just my opinion would be I don't know if you're unpacking enough to kind of build that narrative between now and May. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the Southridge tour, will there be any proclamations or any. Will there be particular homes that are going to be featured or. Yeah, because it's such a huge area that the plan was to pick about eight to nine homes within a block or two of each other, so that we're not having everyone go around the circle, and just keep going and going. Yeah, the spiral. So, we are just gonna, I think we're going to focus on about eight or nine homes is the plan. I don't think it's only intended today, but it's relevant to what we're, to the Southridge thing. If we're going to end up doing something with that sign in a way that could be done at that, at that event, then that could be an occasion in which to do whatever it is that we're doing. Because it may not be like, Hey, we're, we're recognizing this historically significant neighborhood. By the way, we also would like to start doing that in this other neighborhood. But we obviously haven't made any decisions on that. That was a good tip. Sculpture, I wonder if you could do some type of replica of that. Right, I was going to give you guys an updated closing conclusions about that. Who's the gentleman, sorry. Sounds like the primary interest is in doing something informational, tagging on to one or more of these things, as opposed to creating a whole separate bar crawl, or what happened. Or maybe another home store. That's something that I'm interested in. Anything else you need. Did you get enough from us? I would say I got lots of notes. I think it's just kind of we, by next meeting, we, you all just would need to decide and finalize exactly what you all want to do. Just because we want to make sure that we are advertising it in time with the rest of the events that are taking place. Yes. This is more of a general information gathering question, but do we, as a commission for an event like this, have any ability to provide refreshments or entertainment or, I mean, is there a budget or can we get donations from local businesses? I would say we have been doing this for free for five years. A lot of, we've been doing it for free for five years. The historic bar tour is the only event that is paid for, that you have to pay for. Everything else has been provided for free. But I'm going to turn it over to legal. What? Sorry. So, there's just so many follow-on questions with that. I think that HLC probably doesn't have, by itself, contracting authority to hire an entertainer or something like that. And I also don't think that there's a budget for it either. But on the other hand, like, whispering to friendly neighborhood food truck that, hey, something, something, Southridge kick off. I can get a musician to play the reception for free. I didn't hear any of those. I didn't hear any of those. The important distinction is like, hey, there's a community thing happening. What do you think? Hey, I'm speaking for HLC as the official Dippity Doo of the City of Dent. Dippity Doo. Technical term. It is a term of art, y'all. Do you want to find out what Cedar Lecture is going to be about? It's going to be about the history of that building. Yes. The history of the building and the history, and then background on the renovation and showing photos over the course. I mean, that should be an interesting venue for such a thing, because I think it's a great example of how you have sort of investors invest in this old historic building. And obviously they haven't opened yet, haven't started making money yet, but we're going to hope that they succeed. And so that might, you know, kind of be an interesting way of like suggesting that we should, in fact, be doing more of that as a community. That's a good one to pair with too. So I think you guys have a couple different options. I think it's just you all just kind of need think it over and mull it over. And then I can bring it back and then we can, you all can vote kind of on what you all want to do and the date. And then we can kind of figure out the time we need. But I'll also have more of the preliminary schedule planned out as well when I bring this back in March so that you'll be able to see kind of more in the full schedule we're trying to meet next week. Well to Angie's original point of a reception where we have slides or PowerPoint that's on a loop and able to show examples and such. I figure out which of those will lend itself to that. Yeah, but if it's not ready for a tour yet, it may not. Yeah, they're not sure if it's going to be ready for really more than 20 people to potentially go in. If it's not our theater or theater lecture itself, it will be a lecture, they are talking about a tour, but it would be limited and how many people can get in there. Do you know where the lecture would be? It's going to be at the courthouse. So the county has already agreed to have it in the courthouse. Correct, it will not be in the theater itself. We were hoping and Brad was hoping, but they're not going to be at the best point yet. So the lecture itself will be in the old commissioners court in the courthouse, but then we are hoping to at least be able to get some folks in there. Yeah, but like I said, it's only going to be able to be like 25 people at a time to be able to go into the theater. To the point I think the low hanging fruit is maybe the easier easy lift is because I know for dead being sure because I've already seen some of their materials. They already are creating like they already have several after different sizzle reels or videos for people to see. Right. And that would be great for us to slide in something and say, Hey, preservation month. Hey, ask me how to get this tax rebate. Hey, here's some projects upcoming. Ask us about it. Right. Just something that integrated what they're already going to do. And I feel like that's the easiest. Yeah, that's that's kind of the easy like we can definitely do that. They're only taking 20 or 25 years over a time. You're going to have a crowd of people. Waiting, waiting. And we will entertain them. I mean, that's when we could present kind of a role. And it could be more informal like it could just be some posters and then us wandering around talking. And that's what happens with the historic bar tour because they happen in waves. We, one of the things they do is they always have a reception. So, the last time we did I have them do it in the back patio there at Black Box Brewing. Right. And so people would come there we had some little moshes we got a musician to play there so it was a nice little, you know, hang, and people got to hang and talk about what they saw. And that's also a great touch opportunity. We should just take over all of them. Working. Why are you reading my mind. But yeah, but to insert ourselves right I mean the idea is that preservation month is kind of our jam. We can have some poster, some things. Yeah, some travel, but if anybody cared about more. Next month. And update on the process for COAs would be great for historic communities, historic property owners. The process has changed through the years for the better. And that's been a. I just want people to know. It's not like it used to be. It's we made so much progress. I mean, could we maybe try to invite a few people who live in historic homes that are like hey really it's actually kind of cool, like being in this district. It doesn't suck. But to John's point, we also have people that have benefited from the tax incentives for them to say, they were brave and helping shepherd us through getting these windows put in. Yeah, or the whole I can say that all I want to, but I've never been to that process. And I think that there's like an image problem with what our role is because when people don't know the perception is, we're just going to kind of control what you do in your house. And right. That has nothing to do with the inside of that, you know, so I think that the most that we can share about like what it really is and isn't. That's my whole purpose because there was a time that it was like, well, I have people who have been through it recently. I saw their windows. And from different districts. I'll give you an example. We painted our fence. A few years ago, we would have had to have a COA for that. I kid you not. I kid you not. That's the perception. So as you're going out talking and wanting to get other people to become historic districts or preservation districts, that's kind of what's on their mind is there. And then they're in these places because they don't want to go HOA, but yet you're going to be able to tell me what to do. And we've got to look at it as it is for preservation for your property and to live in incentives. That's right. And there's incentives for it. Yeah, I remember the Southridge meeting at Sam Houston. There were a couple people there that were basically spreading all the tired old tales about how bad historic properties are. And I'm like, I know that's not true. But, you know, since I'm not a historic home owner, I'm a historic home renter, I cannot, you know, it's not my place to speak. But if we did have a few people on hand to actually kind of defend narrative, I think that would be cool. Yeah, and I just wanted to just jump in is that I just want to get us back on topic in terms of so I think we have a lot of different great events, and I'm happy. I'll, we can add to the matrix to bring this back in March. But I think there's some other things that have popped up as part of this conversation that might be good matrix items so just cut like the COA process and everything. So I think it might be good to kind of mold those over and then maybe bring those back up at the matrix item because I don't want to, I can talk about this and I love hearing you guys talk about it all night, but I want us to keep moving forward on the agenda. And a lot of things that have come up, especially the image and the public image and the perception. Yes, I think that could be the biggest, our biggest goal for Preservation Month. If we have people listening that month or attending something that otherwise would never pay any attention to it throughout the year, then I hate to miss that opportunity to let them know, however we can. We'll have to be creative in how to do that. But if those people are gathered, that's when they need to hear there's a reason to pursue it, and it's not what it used to be. It's not your mother's. I got lots of good notes. Okay, so now we are going to move to item HLC 26-006. On the agenda is to receive a report and hold the discussion regarding the historic merit of preserving the former entry wall of the former Park PlayStation and I believe Commissioner Black is going to speak to us about this. So, as you may remember, when this first came to our attention in October, because of its intersection with history and art, it struck a particular chord with me. Since then, I have been doing my own legwork in terms of gathering additional research and data, which I share with Cameron, and she was either kind enough or efficient enough to suggest that I be the one to summarize the information this evening. So, you know, again, we have the image of the original Park PlayStation, and it's 1939-1940 condition. And, you know, today we have that, you know, the fragment that remains along University Boulevard with one of my hats on it for scale. Do you know what part the fragment is from that building? So, actually, the part that you can actually not see the fragment in the image. Originally, I thought it was this area here, but apparently, you know, not visible on this image, there was kind of like a gate or archway leading onto the property. And this was one of the two, well, you know, feet or I guess whatever the opposite of a capital is of that archway. Yeah, I think it's a draft stone along with like local fossils. So, and again, just a quick refresher course. This first came to our attention on the October 15th meeting. It is a circa 1939-1940 architectural remnant/bit of folk art. It is currently located on the north side of 380 near the intersection with Ector. That's the closest thing. You can call it cross street, but it's not really. You know, it is the only remaining element of the Park Place service station, which was owned and operated by a man named DeWitt Clinton Sockwell. And it came to the city of Denton's attention when his granddaughter, Joyce Keenis, reached out to the office and said, you know, hey, there's this thing that my grandfather did was the status. And there was concern given the fact of its location and the fact that it is primarily limestone and fossil fragments along a busy roadway, that its preservation conditions are not ideal. So, D.C. Sockwell, okay, it's a little bit grandiose, but I would, I carried him as a small-town renaissance man. In addition to a business owner, he had a dairy on the side of the Park Place station before the station. He was also a civic leader. He was one of the people on the committee that saw the completion of Fourth Drive connecting Denton to Fort Worth. He was responsible for getting a lot of services, including row-free delivery and phone service extended out to this part of 380, which at that point in time was Highway 24, and really was the fringes of Denton or slightly beyond. You know, he was at different times chairman of both the county dairy board and the county cotton board. Most interesting to me, he was apparently a rock-town fossil collector and folk artist as well, and you can kind of see that at work with this picture of the Park Place station and the artifact. There was also a Razor family connection. Apparently they're close with the Razor family, that Fred Razor was one of those pallbearers. As far as the station itself, we talked about, you know, it being on the fringe of Denton or slightly beyond at that point in time. Because of Stockwell's commitment to things like row-free delivery, electricity, and phone service, that this area kind of got formally brought into the city infrastructure. The structure itself is, you know, what we love to call an example of renaissance architecture, meaning that he was not trained and didn't know what he was doing, but still came up with something pretty cool anyway. Definitely a folk art, and if it was along the right road rather than the U.S. 380, it is something that you would definitely see the phrase "roadside Americana" attached to. Constructed in 3940. I find it interesting, they're uncertain on exactly when the demolition occurred. Sometime between 64 and 84 is the closest they can be done now. So I spoke of additional research that I did. The most significant one is this. Emily Fowler in the communities of Denton County, Texas, used the Stockwell filling station to describe the birthplace of one of her more, at the time, more famous relatives. But what I find interesting is if you look at that quote, you know, "Sockwell filling station is used as a landmark with no additional commentary clarification." She clearly expects her readers know what this is and where it is. Less exciting than that, apparently D.C. Stockwell was considered highly notable, but it didn't work chronically. I grabbed three examples here. The most significant one is in 38, they actually re-ran the article from 1919 about when Stockwell purchased the Park Place property. And again, re-running that would suggest that both the location and the man were considered notable by the community at the time. In 35, when there was a late freeze, Stockwell is the one they called to comment on whether or not this was going to affect residents' gardens. He said no, for whatever that's worth. Then in 39, he was the spokesperson/figurehead for, well, I mean, areas in the French cities are always prime grounds for dumping, we all know that. And in 39, that still included Highway 24/380, and he was apparently a big backer for the city's campaign to stop dumping up there, and he was pleased how it went. Chairman of the common board and chairman of the dairy board. Okay, move on to the important stuff. So as you may remember, in the informal staff report submitted by the city on 11/13/2025, they provided estimates regarding costs for preservation and relocating the Park Place, what I call the Park Place fragment. Including separate estimates for excavation of the wall, removal of the wall, plus possible conservation measures, relocation and resetting. The estimates used text dots and item averages, and those numbers were confirmed by public works inspection manager. Now, the one thing the ISR did not include that would make these really useful were actual measurements of the Park Place fragment. So, I went out there with a measuring tape, and so the object is obviously fairly irregular in shape, but it clearly breaks down into fairly regular sections, which I call the wall and the post. Here are the measurements that I took. If you want to actually see the photographs that take measure in place, I will happily share those to you, but I just want to show my work. So let's get to the important stuff. Plugging in those measurements to the city estimates for excavation, removal, relocating and resetting. We would be looking at a total of $374.73 plus any conservation costs, which honestly is significantly less than what I was originally expecting, but there is a but. My estimates do not take into account any parts of the wall. It's below ground because I was more than happy to go out there with a tape measure. I was not ready to go out there with a shovel. But looking on online, a good consensus is that about one third of the height of the walls are structures height is typical for the low ground component. So if we increase the volume of surface by one third, we now look at a total just under $500. A couple of outstanding issues. First of all, believe it or not, I am not a professional surveyor. I suspect my measurements are good enough, but to move ahead, you really want a professional to go out there and double check. Someone's determined subterranean dimensions and estimate conservation costs, if any. One of the most important things is if we did want a relocation or preservation action, we need to figure out where. You know, places that occurred to me with North Lakes Park and North Branch Library at the County Museum. Obviously floors open would also be open to your funding or share public art committee since this is a potential public art issue. And finally, what are the funding options? I mean, it's not a huge amount, but right now there's no such thing as a trivial amount of the city budget. And, you know, are there aspects for crowdfunding or doing donations or something like this for the city. So just to be clear, this is all me. Anything in this presentation that has been subjective or opinionated rather than objective is mine, not the city's. I would like to be able to refine our cost estimates through some of the things we talked about. We would also be interested in better assessing the historic value by doing a oral history with Scott Wells' granddaughter. We would like to see if there is a viable endgame to this in terms of the destination and then look at the numbers that we could throw at doing this. And then once all that is done, come up the argument. So my recommendation, if the commission is agreeable, pump this to May to get some additional data. I am open to questions or I can now sit down. I do have a question. Oh, but you can't sit down. So what is there now? So do you know where the behavioral services thing is right next to the goodwill? So that is the closest thing to it. And when I was looking at some tax and rezoning works in 1965, apparently that building has always been some sort of behavioral health complex. Yeah, yeah. I do wonder how accurate those costs are like on such a small job, right? Do they have to whoever does this sort of thing have minimum orders? And of course, you're probably at least doubling it because you're going to put it back in the ground somewhere. Right. And that's going to come with associated costs. That was not part of what the city came to us with. So, I mean, is that the cost of the complete job? That's the resetting cost. Okay. When you say the ground, why don't you just put it in a museum? Well, I'm just being like, yes. I'm going to bring this to you so you can look at it. Oh, thank you. It's always helpful. No, no, you're too excited. Do you want me to do it? No, no. So along those lines, Miss Angie, that's what I'm thinking. It's like where? So one of the interesting ideas that I think that John brings up in this presentation is to maybe look at some kind of collaboration with public art and see it's 500 freaking dollars after all. Right. But what do we do it? How is it displayed? Things like this, right? I am jumping off Boeing's comment about this was the outskirts of town. I mean, this was one of those wave markers that everybody knew because once you passed that, you were no longer in Denton at all. You were out in the country. So that station, so that makes me wonder, like, where would that be appropriate to go? And I think there's several possibilities. I mean, then the idea of like North Lakes Park or I know that there's going to be ongoing discussions about what happens with that Evers Park area, Evers Farm over on the north side. Because if some of the things that have been kind of kicked around is that that becomes some type of historical interpretation. The farmland story, those stations out on that side of town, because, of course, the agricultural A&M stations were over there as well. The whole reason they call it a station is because it was also a station that was part of those A&M programs. Following the dust bowl where they're doing all the rehabilitation work about how to grow and rotate crops and things. Those stations were over there. So that's part of that larger story in this kind of agricultural history. I originally said North Lakes and North Branch just because those were the closest park and library to where the place is located. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And they also kind of, they also tie in with that northernmost boundary. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that also really caught my heart about this project is, you know, if you go to the square today, you've got a pretty good idea of what the square looked like 100 years ago. If you go to Oak History today, you've got a pretty good idea of what Oak Hickory looked like today. If you go out to 380 today, you don't have a clue what looked like 100 years ago. And this is kind of the last fragment of that banished farmland. So I have another question. This is granddaughter bringing this. Does she have interest in it? Like actually physically having it? Yes. She might. She's not local if I understand correctly. She is now out of state. So that my thought was I don't want to go to the expense and then her want to claim it. So I don't know if there's a way to me if she wants it. It was like, do we just say, OK, you can get it or she's the one that brought it to our attention saying, please preserve this. I don't think I don't think she is. I agree. But you're like an MOU or something. Just establishing. Yes. I was just establishing that she does not. But I also think with the location where it is worries me. If they were to expand 380, which is unlikely, it is a danger. And I do just want to jump in. And this was my fault when I wrote the ISR. I didn't think of this at the time. Techstop does require permits if you're doing work along 380. So I don't even know what the cost of those Techstop permits for excavation would be. So, like I said, I will. I will. I definitely messed up on that. I completely just didn't think about Techstop. I was worried about just getting it out of the ground. But Techstop also has a historic link, right? They have the archaeology. They do. But I do know permitting for Techstop is also it's going to cost. It's a nightmare. It takes six plus months. And I also have no idea what the cost of that would be. So even if there is a historical component, it doesn't mean that there's not going to be no cost associated. Correct. Correct. Got it. Got it. Johnny, you need to get your shovel out. And the tricky thing, too, is where it's located, there could be fiber, all kinds of utilities. And fiber is not deep, real deep. So there's other things to consider where I know right where it is, it's not. But by it, that's going to take the utilities there. Whatever they built next door, they had to have some kind of a survey that's going to show up on that survey. Well, especially with all the fiber and things that have been lying, it has to be. Yes. So anyway, I'd like to explore. Let's see. Let's see if we can do it. I wish this would have come up when we were in the university. You know, I am. But I thank you for all of that work. I think it was great. Great information. I mean, I think it's worth exploring more. I think we need to try to preserve it. Cameron, remind us what her request was. She wanted it preserved. Where and how? I thought she said something. She wanted to bring it forward to the city. If there was an opportunity to preserve the former entry wall at all, or at least part of her family's history. She just felt that the former entry wall was the only thing that was reigning of her family's history. And if to have the city look at it, to see, have a discussion, if it was worth saving, if it wasn't worth saving, at least if it could be documented and shared elsewhere. So that people understood what was there at the time. So she just wanted her family's history preserved, whether it was a physical, yeah, whether it was physical or just. I remember it there. I'm going to say it had to be in the 80s that it was taken. The station? Not the station, just that archway. I think the station was gone. Okay. I'm going to dream about this now. I've just thought that there was an archway there for several years. There was a tree over, I'm just thinking, maybe, it's not a maybe. So it sounds like maybe. Mr. Sockwell has spoken. So it sounds like at least when the matrix item comes that you all want staff to continue digging through what Commissioner Black has brought forward in terms of the different bullet points. And then obviously I'll look at, staff will look at text up permits, utilities, easements that are existing and how that correlates with kind of those bullet points. That's kind of sounds like what you all want to bring, but I just want to reiterate. Okay, perfect. So don't forget to bring that back at the matrix. Thank you, Commissioner Black. Great presentation. I know, I wish I had another minute or something. I don't know. We have a cookie cake for later. Okay. The new commissioners will understand what that is. We are going to move to item 4C, number HLC 26-005 on the agendas to hold a discussion regarding the next steps of the designation research committee. And the community outreach subcommittee to assist in the establishment of the potential new local historic district. Generally located along North Elm and North Locust corridors between McKinney Street University, West University. So this is an item that was brought in January. This is going to be a reoccurring item each month, similar to the matrix and destinations of interest. So that, from my understanding, staff's understanding, there was no one that was necessarily voted to the community outreach subcommittee. We did, didn't we? We did. For the community outreach subcommittee? Okay. That was not shared. So I will. We have three. That's the designation research subcommittee. The outreach committee was months before that, right? Correct. And I believe it was you two, but I don't think Sean can sit on both. But I wasn't here in January. I wasn't here in January, so I couldn't participate in the conversation. So I apologize about that. I didn't even think of that. It's okay. It's all good. Because it makes a lot more sense. Yeah, because you, yeah. So Heather, you were alone currently on that committee. But we can, I can bring it back to have people, we just can't have you sitting on both, unfortunately. Yeah. So, so I'll bring it back in March as some additional members that we can have that are voted to the community outreach committee. But I just wanted to make you all aware that this is going to be occurring every single month, every single meeting that this item is going to come back. And this gives you all the opportunity as both committees to have conversations and kind of work out maybe if you need some input or have questions or anything, you all can work that out here in this item. But they're all for the same goal, the way this. Correct. Yes, they are all for the same goal. I have some questions. Yes. I have already started collecting some information, but I just saw your email, but I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out what level of detail we're aiming for here. And like what kinds of information that we are tracking or trying to track and what ultimately our end goal is in terms of what is a finished product. So that is something for you all to discuss because I can't partake in the, what the final product for the historic district looks like because that's, oh, I don't mean for the historic district. I mean for like the documentation that we are aiming to create through this research subcommittee. Can you offer feedback on what would be most useful rather than what you're looking for? So I can provide examples of what's been done in the past and I have provided that. No, it's okay. I provided that to Commissioner Honig literally right before the meeting from the West Oak Area Historic District in terms of what data was collected. I will state that the information that was collected in the early 2000s, I don't think it's detailed enough to what planning and zoning and city council would want to see now in terms of building descriptions, research based off each building. It was pretty like high level. I think they would want to see more heft to it because it is a whole zoning overlay for an entire district versus individual property. And just my experience working with both commissions, with the commission and council, I do think it would need to be a little bit more jam-packed with information. So we'll review that as an exemplar to follow, an example to follow in terms of who are believable. I would not just based on my initial look at it and her feedback because some of these are like 25 words. I mean obviously we couldn't do something quite this detailed and thorough, but would the South Ridge Resource Survey be a template we could look at and water down? Yes, that is the perfect, yep, and that's online and I think I shared that with you all back in January or maybe December, the link to that, but it's also in the historic resource survey page. So even though it's national register, if you all want to use that as a template and just pare it down to what kind of you think are the key highlights, I think that's the perfect example. Commissioner Black, I think that's great. I have a question. So these two subcommittees though, they're separate committees, yep, they're working on the same goal here. Yes. So they can speak to each other, yes or no? During this item. During this item they can. Yes. With that, so we need the research and we need the subcommittee. Commissioner Tree was already on the community outreach committee, correct? Yes. Can we do two and two or do you have a preference? Well, now that I know that it's going to be a choice of one or the other, I feel like the research aspect of it is amply covered by these two and the community outreach is something that I would be more interested in getting the neighborhood groups together. I'm good with that. So we have two and two. Thank you, Chair. Make a motion to refer to the research committee as the committee of jobs. So we're going to keep the community outreach subcommittee as stated back in May, in whatever it was. Yes. So we're going to leave that as Commissioner Gregory and Commissioner Tree. Were there only two? Yes, there were only two. And then if you guys are in favor of the research committee of the Johns that we established last month and Commissioner Tree will stay with community outreach. Anyone have any objections or want to add anyone else or wants to volunteer? So we do research and we give it to you who then will give it to the people who want to convince people of things. So you would bring it at this meeting. So this is why this is set so that every meeting you'll have this opportunity. So if you all collective research and you're like, hey, we have 15 properties that we want the community outreach group to start going to reaching out, we're going to give it to you all. You all can do that here. So this is going to be reoccurring. Would that be in the agenda or in the packet? No, you could just provide it. It's just going to be a reoccurring item so you can just pass it over. This is your opportunity to operate within the Texas meetings opens act so that like we're not doing stuff via email. And if someone were to audit, then we just get a lot of trouble. So try to save. But yeah, no, so you're not going to need it on the agenda. You can literally just bring the information and just say, hey, Sean, Heather, here's what we've got. You all run with it. It was a large stack of paper. Can I send it to you and I can print it out. I can print out copies. I don't know. I'm just trying to think. Yeah, I I need to limit how much I'm involved. As I kind of just explained when we had talked about this and the item is just the more I'm involved, the more of it complicated and morbid. It comes and raises some ethical things. So I'm happy to relay information. I'm happy to get GIS maps done. I'm happy to kind of help organize. But otherwise, I can't help do the research. I can't help do certain things because then it kind of crossed the line and then it looks like the HPO is trying to create a historic district without when that's not the case. Right. And so this would be like the information that y'all are collecting a we're using to build the case for the district to build the application, but we're also hoping to use it, for example, during historic preservation month. And so this is our moment or in March, that's our moment to sort of figure out the form of what we do with those stories and how we engage the community in May around them. And that makes me feel like our research doesn't need to be focused on building stories. And not just the building was built and then someone sold it and then someone sold it, which is most of what's on that oak application. But that we may have to go deeper and go, well, who were these people? We can't do that with everybody, obviously. That's one of the things I learned about the Southridge resources surveys, they had like one or two pages that was like, important and original inhabitants of these houses. Or important, right, there's a list of things that make it important. And so it could be that inhabitants or it could be architecture, or it could be the use of the building. But if we want to engage the public, we have to tell a story. Like the one that was a fire station. So this is where you guys then share with the other subcommittee, what you've been doing on your end, and then we'll show what we've been doing on our end. And hopefully they'll meet in the middle. And in May, when we do a Notice of Possible quorum, then you all have the opportunity to kind of pitch it and share with the community. So everyone's on the same subcommittee at that point to assist and kind of make it a group effort. So I didn't want you all to think in May, you also have to act as separate subcommittees. Sorry, you can't talk to him. We would do the Notice of Possible quorum so that you all have that opportunity to support one another through that process. So are we good with that? I have one last question before we move on. In the work that y'all have done so far, or in like, do you have an idea for like how the story could be told or like what tool or platform? Yes. We have only been working on it for a couple weeks. And so most of the work that I have done has been in collecting like stuff from the CAD and from the Oliver survey just like raw numbers. And so I don't have much in the way of stories to tell yet. I mean, I have some kind of interesting observations, but... John, if you would give data mining, I could possibly jump ahead and try and figure it out like, you know, three, four, five, six interesting stories we can believe. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, that sounds fun. So in that buying one of the things that I've done back to the prior group that existed actually had a conversation with Kim Curran, and he hit me into the fact that they are they had a neighborhood group at one point that we're meeting and discussing and trying to be involved with that. And so I asked him, can we get the band back together? And he was like, Heck yeah. And so I talked to him, and also they touched base with Mike Cocker, who's expressed interest in helping me become a community, neighborhood aspect of this, which I think is huge. So the idea is like, as they're putting that together, I'm trying to put together the other element. And so there's our form. So then what I'll try to do is then set up, like perhaps some, you know, not meetings, but I mean, like some get togethers for us to like fill them in on. Here's what was done before. Here's kind of what we're looking at now. Here's who's still in and still here. And here's who's not. And here are new players who need to try to recruit. Does that make sense? And as of this moment, I am only doing research on that zone that was originally proposed, which we have not compared our numbers yet, but it seems to be well over 200 addresses. And so, you know, while I personally would love to see that, that area expanded, just given that it's so many properties, I'm not going to do that unless we as a committee decide to. Does that mean Oak and Hickory? I mean, Elm and Locust are what we're looking at. And then there's a couple of addresses that are on the side street, but they're imaginations. Ferguson or 1st or 3rd or Gary. Again, we haven't compared our addresses yet, but I think I have it down as basically from the 300 block to the 18 or 1900 block. We've been not expanding to Bolliver and as was requested. If the committee decides to do that, then we'll add those, but yeah, we're talking about 200 addresses just initially. Yeah, he has to start and have like an already workable district, and then we can expand and move around as there seems to be interest from participants and et cetera. The location of the old spinning wheels is covered by the district, right? Yes. There's got to be something fun we can do with that at some point in time. I agree. Which can be the longest though, breaking a leg. I think that's long and short. You guys have anything else to report back? I'm sure I'll have more. Alright, good discussion. Thank you guys. We're ready to move on to HLC 26-001 to receive our report, hold a discussion, give staff direction on the historic landmark commission request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. Anyone have any? Next month, I'll be bringing you materials on Oak Street Dreadhouse. I've got the research completed, I've got the narrative done, I'm actually meeting with John Williams tomorrow, and then I'll share my homework and tell you what I found out about that little area. There's a whole other story on that side of Oak Street, and it was called soap stocking road for very different reasons. Alright, so nothing this time, but we're going to look forward to next time. Alright, next one is HLC 26-002 to hold a discussion regarding the historic landmark commission project, Matrix. Okay, I'm just going to bring up the word document because apparently it is not on the list. Yes. I would like to add to the Matrix a reconstituted item regarding the Park Place Fragment that we will look into additional issues, including whether the soap stock permits, whether the small scale project affects pricing, location and difficulty of possible utility work, also that we will begin discussions with the potential repositories for the fragment, as well as possibly networking with the PAC. If anybody is okay with this, I will reach out to the granddaughter and see if she wants to do an oral history that gives additional information. Well, and we need how many do we need to agree with three. I agree. And that's why I'm looking to say it was. Oh, didn't revealed. So yes, that's right. So we're going to talk about have an action item for the Matrix to discuss what we're going to be doing specifically for didn't revealed. And turn that into an action item that we can then advertise and advance. There was also one about a revised process. And that was part of it. It's just to get information out. I didn't want to. It kind of goes with that HLC FAQ and historic processes document. It's sort of, I mean, that's kind of part of that. So that would become an action item related specifically to materials we put together in the street. Okay, we're doing bullet points. Okay. Anything else. The matrix. Can you scroll back down on pause right there. The tax return eligibility criteria. Yes. Not that I want to, with what came before us today for the approval, which we approve. I'm just wondering if it's something we should open up if council will question us on it. In terms of the improvements that were made. What we approved was, it's the guidelines. I just wonder, but that's the only reason why I was wondering if that's something we should. Okay. Anything else. Anything else on any other further business to discuss tonight. I'm curious about the role. I would like to request a report on what's going on with the federated women's club. I know that that has come up as agenda items in a work session February 3rd, private there for non-public, but I just would like to be kept updated on our committee on like what's going on, where's it at. Because one of the things that we had shared with us in December by y'all was that this was going to become part of an ongoing conversation about the renewal of the 99 year lease. That 99 year lease was up this year in August. And so I know we can't talk about things like behind closed session for council discussion. However, I just like to request any pertinent information that might be related to RGD's AP coming up here. I mean, does that need to be part of a broader discussion about whether or not we as the HLC have a position on that? I wouldn't know. I wouldn't either. Yeah, I'm just, that's why I'm asking. Are we going to get any guidance or any information? Because that is a historic structure. Quaker Town is within our historic protection review. Obviously it touches on a lot of significant issues in this community. I will be honest, I have a bit involved. So I wasn't in that closed session, but what I can tell you is that council is still looking at stuff and there's not really anything to report. Okay. How can we be assured that we're going to have input into that? Where are we? Well, that's an interesting question that maybe some legal officials will need to look further into. But generally speaking, when we're talking land use and land use decisions, we talk about the use and not the user. And since the building in question is a historic landmark, whoever is using it is going to have to abide by the relevant guidelines for the exterior, of course, because this question about your point reminded me anyway that the inside is up to them. That isn't the only answer and I apologize for that. So who sets up the guidelines? You're saying they're going to have to abide by them? Being in a historic district, all the rules that Cameron tells you about, about getting a certificate of appropriateness, all that stuff. I'm not talking about those, but what the building is used for. That is a private kind of decision of who's going to lease it or own it or what have you. It's owned already by somebody. The Women's Club owns the building. This commission can only speak to, it is under the purview of, it is a historic building. So we have the same decisions on it than any other historic building would have in the city, if that makes sense. But as far as usage or who owns it or the future, we don't have purview of that, but council is making that decision. So they haven't asked for our commission's opinion for that. How was that? I don't know if this is something that we want to do, but just purely to get an idea of our latitude, do we have the ability to preemptively issue a statement of what we feel would be a resolution consistent with the values of the struggle of the HLC? That's a very good question. I'll look into that. And this is on me for engaging, for engaging the discussion a little further, but we're not posted for a specific discussion. So I can look into that a little bit and we can bring it back in the future. Thank you for next month. I like that idea. So Commissioner Tree, good idea for getting a report on that, if we could add that as well. That way we can discuss that at least next month on what we would want that total. And can we explicitly make the possibility of adding a preemptive statement part of that examination? Basically, what validation ways do we have to give input on this? And I'll tell you what I've told Kenzie in the past. Okay, thank you. I was just wondering about the historic marker. Go ahead and ask the question, but it will be discussed in the next month. A historic marker on the building, which is doesn't do justice to what the situation is. And so there's discussion going on about another possible marker that is more honest. So can we add that to the for next month as well? It seems like that would be something under our purview to weigh in on. Absolutely. So I want to manage expectations. The answer to these questions very likely could be as a body. No, there's not a lot we can do. And so I just want to put that out there that there's a good chance that's probably where we're going to land. So I don't want to give anyone's hopes up. Does the language of historical marker markers typically go through this group? For local markers, yes. I don't want to be like, I have no idea. Yes. So did want to give an update about the Southridge side visit. I'm coordinating with the special collections team right now to go out to the site to get photographs, see what we can do, if we can preserve it at all. Thanks to Commissioner Black for reaching out to the property owner and going out there already. So we're going to, like I said, schedule a side visit here I think in the next, hopefully, I'm hoping this week, if not next week to get that accomplished and just see what we can do and then we can bring that back. Did want to let you all know, similar to kind of how we've done, I guess, or you all last month did work, did a COA for the Denton Square District for the old Andes hub. Just want to let you all know that there is a public hearing going forward in the future to have City Council for the Wells Fargo building. You all just wanted to kind of remind you all that as a council or as a commission, you all do not have jurisdiction over the Wells Fargo building. That's why you're not going to see it. I don't want you all to think that I just went around you and didn't bring it forward to you all. But there is a public hearing going forward in the beginning of March for a project for a new addition to the Wells Fargo building. So just wanted to let you all know that you all are more than welcome to comment on it, but I didn't want you all to think that I just skirted around you all. Is it just not considered part of that? It's in the Denton Square District, but it's not part of the, it's not a contributing structure to the National Register Landmark or National Register Historic District, nor is the local landmark. You all don't have jurisdiction over that because it's not local landmark. So just wanted to let you all know that that was moving forward so you weren't shocked when that comes forward. And then in terms of the template, I know that that's been on the list for a while. I'm working on that. I'm trying to get that as cleaned up as possible so that it makes sense to you all so that, you know, obviously you all are well informed with what your role is as an HLC and the procedures. But I just want to make it as clean and clear as possible so that you all aren't, you know, once you get out in public with it, you're not like, oh, wait, I don't actually know what cameras to put in here. We don't understand. I don't want that to happen. So I'm sorry that that's been taking a while, but I'm also working on a lot of different things. And then there is the possibility that my colleague Sean Jacobson is running the March meeting. I am waiting to come. I will be taking care of my mother. She's undergoing surgery. So I'm trying to figure out the dates with HR, but just wanted to give you all a heads up that that might be the case. I'm not positive. But if I'm not here, it's not because I didn't want to be here. It's because I'm taking care of my mom. They always use their mother as an excuse. Yeah, you know, I'm actually going to Portugal and living in a room and just living my best life. But those are all my updates. Right. Any others? All right, then we're adjourned. Seven oh one.