Dec 09, 2024 Historic Landmark Commission on 2024-12-09 5:30 PM

I believe a quorum is present so as chair I'm going to go ahead and convene this federal meeting december 9th 2024 at a little bit after 5 30 but she called in and time right now is 5 53 on the mark although we need to confirm that by 45 within seconds and I believe if somebody likes all right so first let's start off with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And now the Texas flag. Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one indivisible. All right, after the leading of our pledge of allegiances, item two is presentations from members of the public. So I'll ask to see if there are any members of the public with comments right now. Oh you're not here to speak. Not separately. You're here to observe the report. We're on the agenda. Still want to make sure always presentations from any public going once. Did we have any cards filled out? Going twice, no cards filled out. I'm going to say going three times and we'll move along to the next item. So next item three, items of consideration. So interested citizens arrived at the meeting. So we're going to look at item A, HLC 24-059. We're going to consider approval of the November 18th, 2024 minutes. So I'll open the floor for comments. I will move approval. Thank you, Councilor McAdams. That's a first. We'll have a second. Second from Councilman Tepperman. I'm sorry, committee member. I already gave you an instant kind of advancement here. So I believe it's passed. Oh, vote. That's right. So we need to vote. Show of hands and aye in favor. Any opposed? Motion passes. Okay, so now we're going to move to item B, HLC 24-006A and I believe this is a discussion of expenses involved with the property located at 1526 Willowwood Street. Historic preservation officer. Thank you, Vice Chair. So this is the location of the property. It is north of Willowwood Street, just east of Kendolph Drive. The property owners are Jennifer Lane and James Carr. It is a local historic landmark that was designated this past September. And as requested, it is an application for historic landmark tax exemption in accordance with our section 10-128 for partial tax exemption of designated historic sites. As you can see here and as you all saw on your backup, there were a number of repairs and updates made regarding the recoding of the stucco and repair of the drainage system. I'm going to move this real quick so you guys can see. Here we go. So looking at the request, we're looking specifically for improvements and/or restoration to the project. So the disposal fees, paved stone border, and removal of the sidewalk do not meet qualifying improvements and/or restoration to the project as they do not pertain to the general maintenance and restoration. However, their total expense amount that still qualifies is $29,287. So just to show you all some before and afters of that stucco repair work, huge night and day fixes that happened on that rear wall. And then some also photos of that surface drainage to help kind of alleviate some of that damage that's happening to the foundation currently at the home. So staff's analysis looked at section 10-128C. This is the first time this property is going for historic tax exemption. And so we're looking at only qualifying expenses to the two years prior to that designation as a historic site. So staff is recommending a favorable determination of the expenses presented, with the exception of those disposal fees, paved stone border, and removal of the sidewalk, as the fact that the rest of the improvements or permanent improvement and/or restoration of the landmark property located at 1526 will look straight. And it needs that minimum of $10,000 or more. Any questions? Sorry, the teams was a little complicated to maneuver. Any questions or discussions? Do we have a motion to accept staff recommendations presented? I so move. I here second. Thank you, McAdams and Sherman. All those in favor, raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes unanimous. Thank you, Cameron. All right, that concludes items for consideration. Let's move into our work session now. Thank you. So let's move into item A of our work session, HLC 24-058, receive a report and hold a discussion revolving notice of possible forum eligible events. So I know there was an email sent out a couple weeks ago regarding, you know, the Ebers farm property. And part of that discussion kind of brought up this larger discussion of possible forum. So we kind of just wanted to do a quick overview as these are coming from the state. It turns out we were not following state protocol for a while here, but now we are. So when we are looking at an event, say if it's a neighborhood meeting or we're going to use neighborhood meeting as an example. If you go to that neighborhood meeting and you see three other members from the Historic Landmark Commission, one of you all has to excuse yourself. So we cannot have forum at neighborhood meetings anymore. We are only allowed to have them at officially official meetings where staff has posted a media agenda such or that there are some additional core categories such as a social function, press conference, ceremonial events, convention or workshop attendance or candidate forum appearance of debate. So neighborhood meetings is probably going to be what you all are dealing with most. I am going to put it on the commission that if you are at that meeting and staff doesn't happen to be there, it is you all's responsibility to make sure that there is no, there is three or less of you all at that meeting. Three is okay. Yes, three is okay. So one, two or three is okay. You cannot have four because that's our forum for HLC. So I'm going to just put that on the commission. But like I said, with an official meeting or social function, press conference, ceremonial event, convention or workshop attendance or candidate forum appearance of debate, you all are welcome. And that's where staff will post a notice of possible forum and you all can be in attendance. Sound good? Okay. Got it. Really? Now I'm done. All right. Thank you. If you have questions, just ask. I think that's the other, if it's like, if it's like church or something, you know what I mean? Yeah. Just ask. Oh, then we pray and make it okay. There are some exceptions that seem obvious, but it's worth just asking about. No, it's always worth asking, right? In advance, right? Yes. Okay. So we'll move on to item B. Thank you for HLC 24-057. Received a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding prioritizing our work plan for 2020-25. Yes. So we are already at almost 20-25. So this year went really quick. So as part of this, I'm going to just give a little bit of an overview of what you all saw and covered in 2024. And then we're going to jump right into kind of the goals and that discussion of what you all want for your work plan for 2025. So 2024, we received 12, but I did receive, I think, two more about 30 minutes before I came here. So we have 14. HLC did not see any of them. We do have one that is currently ongoing that is going to have to go undergo HLC review and action, but you all probably won't see it until 2025. The HPO, Historic Preservation Officer, and myself, I reviewed 11. They were mostly for new paint, in-kind replacements. So, you know, wood for wood or lighting fixtures, and then rear property projects that were not visible from the right of way. In terms of historic tax exemptions, you all have received four and taken action on four this year, which is great. I love to see that people are applying for historic tax exemptions in the city. We need more of that. And then in terms of historic landmark designations, you all have seen and reviewed and taken action on three, which since I've been here since 2021, that is the largest number I've seen. So, yeah, clap, round of applause. Huge achievement. I'm really proud of you all this year. I think that's really great for the city and us moving forward. In terms of special topic items covered, there were a total of 10. They range from our historically eligible structures map to historic tax exemptions. We talked about, you know, other cities tax exemptions. We discussed the planning divisions area plan. So that's Southeast end area plan, the design downtown Denton plan. So we covered a lot of different topics, which was really exciting. And you know that the historic tax exemption one, there's more to come for that one. So I'm in 2025, but a lot of great work this year. Okay, so for the 2025 work plan, you'll recognize some of these from last year, or I guess our current year, but staff has added some additional goals for you all. So you all can have that discussion tonight and kind of, I guess, kind of decide what you all are thinking in terms of what you all want to prioritize for the upcoming year. So the first one is goal one, policy 1.3 recommendation 1.8. Just a reminder, this is from our 2019 historic Denton historic preservation plan. So what you all have already, we've already implemented this, it's ongoing from 2024, but we have that preparing an annual study list of potential landmarks and districts. Then we have our goals 2, which we have policies 2.1, or I mean recommendation 2.1 and 2.2. Discussion has started on both of these. They'd be ongoing from 2024, but it's broadening that historic tax exemption eligibility criteria, as well as exploring a program aligned for a partial or full property tax exemption from the City of Denton and other out-of-the-pool taxi authorities. The next is our goal 3, policy 3.1 recommendation 3.6. This was implemented and it's ongoing from 2024. It's completing designation reports for landmarks and districts. So that's what we have on, you know, the agenda that's a reoccurring item, talking about what properties you all are interested in getting designated. So that's been implemented, but it's still ongoing, something we can continue to work on. To continue, you'll see three more that are new, but they're all from goal 4, our policy 4.2, and then recommendations 4.7 through 4.11. So new for 2025 would be to improve visibility and awareness of the tax exemption program to increase participation. Right now, we don't even have half of our properties participating in our tax exemption program. So it's definitely something that we should improve our visibility and awareness for that. The next one is increasing awareness and use of federal rehabilitation tax credits. I know we do have a local preservation group that does a great job at increasing awareness about that. But that doesn't mean that our historic landmark commission and staff can't also be promoting that program. The next one is our recommendation 4.9, and that's just adding additional historic preservation information materials on the website. The website, you know, has changed a lot in the last three years since I've been here and has undergone a lot of updates. But I think the more we can add, the more information, probably less wordy on my part, but we can kind of streamline the process that'd be good to add an update. And then the last two are ongoing from 2024, which is looking at creating a marketing plan to encourage additional local landmark destinations and then providing training to local realtors and bankers. These were not implemented, nor were like the discussions. We hadn't started discussing either of these, so that's why you just see that they're ongoing from 2024. But any questions? Does this look good? How are we feeling about all of this work plan? Ambitious. I like it. I like that we have the big year ever, and you're like, go bigger. Let's go. Set the gas, right? Yeah. And can we ask the city marketing department if they can look at maybe what some other cities are doing with regard to marketing to offer some suggestions? So staff did have an initial conversation kind of just talking about the program in general, updating them on, you know, what historic landmark destinations are, what myself as staff have jurisdiction over what you all have just started. So it was kind of just like a full on like historic preservation 101. And there was discussion about marketing, but then I know it got really busy with some other marketing campaigns, especially in Halloween. So it is something that is on staff's radar to check back in and just see what we can kind of start doing in terms of marketing it to the larger audience. The chicken or the egg though, because we're also working on still trying to work on those tax exemptions. So you want to promote and increase awareness on something that may shift and change. That's absolutely on point. Yes. Well, just a quick for myself. One of my favorite things to follow right now is the Denton Public Library. They do this Denton History Minute. And like Chuck Bollinger drives around in his car and goes to different places, right? Yeah. Love this. Right. I love and it's getting lots of interaction. Okay. I would love to see if maybe we work with the Public Library as a way to fold this into that idea like Denton History Minute. And maybe then we contribute some content. Does that make sense? Like that could be something that they already have something in place that I feel like is working. And it's a quick little tick tocky video, right? I mean, it's kind of fun. Like go see this place and see this thing. And one of the things that I know that's come up in discussion in this group for is how can we promote success stories, right? The places that we have been actively preserving. Places that here's the kinds of things they do, right? I just want to throw that out for discussion and consideration because I think that might make a very fruitful inner city partnership. It's like piggyback on that idea and maybe be able to because I don't want to be so beholden on marketing that we also don't think about like how we can use the library, right? How we can use other types of resources that are already kind of plugged in and maybe hurting for content. So that's my idea about that. Just so that I can just to clarify. So you're stating that it would be beneficial for us to potentially pair with the Denton Public Library. Explore the possibility to pair with the Denton Public Library to do some type of marketing history series that talks about the local landmark designations or why certain structures are important and why they should be designated. I guess so I'm just trying to tie it back to that recommendation. We have a lot of work plan recommendations here. And I mean if we did a different one every month, we would fill up two years. You see what I'm saying? So yeah, but the idea is to be able to highlight some things, right? Either success stories, places that are targeted, right? We can also talk about things that are coming up and like there's lots of interest in Evers Park. There's lots of interest in the downtown Denton plan, right? So we're involved in those things. So why not plug in the history element, right? Okay, perfectly. Well, you know, what's her name? She writes a column about Old House. I have emailed her right now. I was just saying that she goes out and gathers a lot of information to write her articles that regularly appear in the DRC. And maybe we could use some of that in a way to further publicize and encourage. Well, along those lines, actually, the last article that she submitted to the DRC, which was, I believe, two days ago, three days ago, had to do with the Evers family. And she actually posted a link back to the article about the hearing that happened about specifically about Evers Park and the development kind of concept plan that was being kicked around, which that's on point, right? The idea is like, oh, and if you want to, and it's because it's the DRC, if you want to read more about this plan, insert a link, right? So maybe there's a DRC element to this, too, to talk to them because of their partnership with KERA. And there's some of their articles that have regional reach, are free and open. They're not paywalled, which is a really big, important thing. So for consideration, maybe explore partnerships with the DRC. I just think they could help us, maybe, because she does do all that work, and KERA owns DRC now. Does now. That's right. Well, and that work has been done. She has so many that she's written already, particularly about the history of a home. It's a historic landmark. And the founders who built it, and lots of history. It's just there. And they are capable of creating content, as well. Maybe the person who owns the house now, whoever is living there now, might like to do a sort of a game or something. Yeah, yeah, say hey. So some of our wins that we have, have them talk about working with the Historic Landmark Committee. I don't know. Great partnerships, et cetera, et cetera. That's great ideas. Love it. Any other discussions? Ethan, do you have any ideas, thoughts? I just always want to make sure I hear from everybody. Where you at? Where you thinking? So I guess, I guess where am I? I don't know, this is a place to ask questions. I think I've been on the committee for a year now. So I'm still kind of figuring out what to do. So I create a marketplace. Is this stuff that we guide, what the staff is going to go out and do, like what y'all are going to do? Because we talked about a marketplace. We're not, I mean, I do that marketing stuff. I don't know. Is this stuff that we're intricately involved in, or just kind of in some direction of what the city staff does? It's, it's a combination of staff working with you all and getting your feedback and then staff bringing it and saying, hey, because, you know, obviously there are certain lines that I can't cross as staff, you all as HLC, as representatives of the city. So it is definitely us working together and then presenting it to, you know, the people who are my bosses and seeing if that's okay, if, you know, the city's okay with presenting that. So there are certain things that, you know, I will have to run by, you know, the director or marketing, just to make sure that everything's cohesive that's coming out of the city in terms of branding and how we're sharing information. Right, right. Because I mean, I'm like, I mean, some of the marketing stuff, I just don't, you know, I don't know how much is ahead of it. I mean, I've seen some of this before, but it doesn't always come up in every minute. So I'm just, because I think some of this, I like the idea of, you know, since we did have some properties this year and doing a testimonial kind of thing. And because again, I look at my experience from things that maybe I, you know, in my law practice, I should be doing. Right. More marketing, like marketing wise stuff. And I think that, I mean, testimonials, anything that's, you know, media that people can, that maybe it's however long a TikTok video is, right. Because people, you know what I mean, like people don't have the attention span, but getting the word out that what we do, how it helps, you know, it's beneficial to both property owners of houses that are eligible. Because a lot of people might not know that their house is eligible for historical exception. Because I mean, if they're going to pay, they're going to need to spend money on the property anyway. Right. You know, 10,000 is not a hard number to hit now on any given, you know, so, but I do like this. I like those ideas, especially of skipping the word out somehow in a way that, because not everybody is totally engaged in city happenings. Right. You know, in a way that reaches more. Yeah. It's all like that. And the preservation, I would say for my long term commissioners, we do have a platform that is run by myself and the special collections team. It's called Preserve Denton. However, staff is just very busy. So it's just not often posted on, is unfortunate, is what we've kind of gotten to, unfortunately. But it is a platform so that if we're able to create content, if we're able to get those testimonials, those are places that it can be posted in addition to the city. So I did just want to share that with our new commissioners or newish new commissioners. Yeah. So I can be. So I want to clarify. So you're thinking that that could be a content generating platform that might be able to get folded up under Denton Public Library. So it operates technically as its own city, of course, Instagram page right now. So it's Denton Public Library Preserve Denton parks. So we we do in the city of Denton. All three of those together. So technically, yeah, they're each have their own and they're all underneath the city of Denton. So it's just staff is the one usually creating that content. And I will be honest, I just have not had time. I mean, are there like protocols that have to be? Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. You got you got. I think we're talking about we're getting into the leads like details. Like if you want to do if you want to talk. So the most thing is discuss prioritization of these items. So going through them and saying which one sounds like you want to prioritize the marketing efforts, which I think are probably most of them are related to what it looks like. But I think if you want to have a really in-depth sort of power out about that, OK, I don't want a later agenda. Love it. So I'll motion to put that on a motion just now direction to staff that those of you want to talk more about. OK, but in all this, I think we have to keep in mind that the putting everything on the computers, I know that's the only car we have driving these days, but there are too many sites, just too many. Nobody is going to go and keep searching through all those sites. This the I don't think the city website is particularly friendly anyway. It's harder to find something when you're looking for it. But to add some more websites, people just aren't going to get that we've got to figure out some way to lead them to the website. It has what we want. So so so so Commissioner Adams, you're stating basically it all stems back to we need we have some of these implemented. We've had discussions going. But on this page, in terms of if we're going to prioritize something, since we're kind of already moving on the other ones, if we're going to prioritize something, it would be marketing and then that marketing would get us to the rest of those holes. That's OK. Yes. I mean, rest of those recommendations. So it'd be pulling recommendation for 10 up and then with 410 all the way at the top. It basically everything else would fall in line. OK, that sounds good. That helps with the prioritizing angle, which thank you, legal, for reminding us. Stay on hunt for work plan actions for 2025 to explore some maybe media and marketing opportunities that then help us then identify and clarify, as was mentioned prior things that are still developing. But we might be able to increase awareness, but also, as I see here, provide training to local realtors and brokers, marketing plans. Yeah. And increase awareness, improve visibility. Right. So those items seem to be on point. So for this item of discussion, staff recommendation, how do we feel about these actions for 2025? You want to accept and then hold discussions going forward. I'll entertain a motion to approve as presented by staff. I'll make that motion. No action on this item. There's no action. Just staff direction. And once you gave me direction. Staff, do you have direction? I have staff. Staff has direction. Great. Well, let's move on to item 4C, number HLC 24-055. So now we're going to receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible historic properties. Does anybody have any properties? I'm going to give the update, but I wanted to ask first. If anyone has any. So for our new Commissioner Sherman, I just want to let you know that this is a reoccurring item. You'll see it on every single agenda. It's essentially for you to bring to the commission a property that you think is worthy of designation. You provide evidence per se, kind of like a two-minute pitch, like City Council, and then you all, the commission will take a vote on whether or not you add that to the active list for designations. Since there are none, I will give a quick update regarding the Brown Brothers Trail. The parcel was officially lost, so staff was going, the track, yeah, the tracking just did not do anything for us, unfortunately. So the parcel has been officially lost, so I will have to resend a, I will have to send a new letter. But yeah, lost. Yep. The tracking just died out and I went and spoke to them and they said there's nothing they can do if the tracking isn't working. Because that's their way of keeping track of it as well. Well, obviously it's not working. So is it lost? Is it an outer space? Yeah, so what is the property? The Brown Brothers Trail is a property that's on a parcel. Oh my gosh, how many acres? It's over. If anyone has notes, I apologize. But it is a property that, it's south of, or it's north, I mean, south, west of Southbridge, and like by De Nia neighborhood, and it's on a lot of acreages closer to I-35 west, and the, it's over near us, and it was built in the 1960s. Is this the one with the cows in the back? Yeah, the cows in the back. Apparently there's a, I don't know that, in the living room, cows walked in, did they die immediately or just they couldn't get out? We don't know. We don't even know if cows even got in the first place. Okay, guys, back on topic. Counsel is not happening. Counsel, you mean, oh, well he is counseling us. No, actually. Yeah, okay, I guess, okay, so we're going to just resend the new one, and hopefully this tracking does not die, and that it works, and that they get the parcel. Okay. To the property owners? To the property owners, yes. Telling them, it's a letter stating that the HLC is interested in designation, why it's important, gives them a number of options in terms of whether they want to designate at the local state or federal level, and then it gives them information of who to contact at the local level if they're interested, and who to contact at the county level who deals with state and federal. I mean, it was a huge house. We think it was a Mount Miller design. Big range, yeah. Just over there, and apparently it finally abandoned a lovely home, and it has historical value, we think, and we'd like to persuade them to do something other than just have it as a great York house. Yeah, it's been jumping in and off the radar for a while. Because we can't seem to get in touch with anyone. Okay, any other discussion about any other updates? No further updates? No further updates, sorry. Any other questions? Okay, well then, let's move on to item 4D, number HLC 24-056 in our agenda, and that's the whole of the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission project matrix. Back into the matrix. Yes. So just to provide you all some updates, we have our requests. This is just kind of that annual update in terms of those 2024 goals, very similar to your packet, but we did have HLC reviewed and City Council approved three historic landmark destinations. I've added the ones moving forward for 2025, and I'll delete those as I go, but this would be the opportunity to add that further discussion regarding marketing. If you all are still interested in having a more in-depth discussion, we would just need someone to put that forward, and then we would need three commissioners to vote on that, so it can be added to the matrix. Well, yes, we want to move forward with, I think add to the matrix, looking at with the marketing assistance from the marketing department, I should hope, looking at ways that we might better publicize what's available for historic properties, and how to get that information in front of the public in general. Publication circulation of historic landmark commission issues and objectives and education. Figure out their city partnerships, public partnerships, and hold a discussion on that. Is that close? So that was on the work plan for 2024 for this year, also? No, that was one of the new, oh, I'm sorry, my apologies. 2025. I think it says ongoing, it was a 2024 work plan goal. Yes, it was not implemented, ever, so, or the discussion hadn't started, so it's still ongoing from 2024. It would be carried over into 2025. Right. I think, I'm pretty sure that will be ongoing, but yeah, especially, I mean, the part that we could add to that is explore partnerships. We can't do the lifting by ourselves. Exactly right. Partnerships, both the city, DRC, other local publications, websites, etc. Any other comments, discussion on that item? You see three people. Oh, that's right. So we need to have somebody propose to adopt that to the matrix and then three votes in affirmative. Okay, yeah, I just, I just needed to hear it. I heard three, but I just want to confirm that I had the three that had spoken that were on board. Okay, so we're moving into number five, concluding items. Does the board have any other business to discuss? Ready for four minutes. As I say, I will get, I will give two quick updates or concluding closing. So the informal staff report for Quaker Town pool, I know you all were waiting for that to be sent. It still has not gone into the Friday report. I did check in on that. I'm not sure of the date. I'm hoping this Friday could be next Friday, but I will, like I said last time, I will send that y'all's way once that's actually in the Friday report. We are going to be sending out some dates for the plaque and ribbon cutting for both of our designated properties or recent designated properties. So just be on the lookout for that. That's going to happen in 2025. And then we do have the property owner for Zoom Zooms is that so that petrified wood structure on Locust. That's been all around since 1931. They are interested potentially in getting designated, but they do want to add an addition. So they are working closely with the Texas Main Street office and our Main Street manager, just looking at maybe some design assistance because they do want to add on to the property. But we want to do it in such a way that they could still be designated. So I just wanted to update about that. In regards to Evers Farm, we are going to receive just a quick update from our commissioners who were in attendance, but we can't have a full discussion about it. It's just a quick overview in terms of including items so that you all can be up to date and we can have a larger discussion once Parks is ready. I'll get naked loaded. All right. How many minutes shall we have? Four. Four minutes easy. You'll need this. Oh, right. You can switch. Okay. So I, myself, and Councilman, not me, many members of the committee, I keep trying to promote you. Commissioner. Commissioner. Eaton. Eaton. Eaton, take the hint. Take the hint. So I want to offer a brief kind of like overview of some of the updates. There was a Community Input Meeting on November 21st that we both attended along with our Historic Preservation Officer. And it is about the Evers Park Plan. So this is the concept plan. This event was for public input. It was hosted by the Director of Parks and Recreation, Greg Paken and Ziad Karat. Also, we had a representative from JPI, who are the developers of this property. So to give you an idea of what's in store or what the plan that's being proposed is. What they're looking to do is in this illustration that shows you over here in the southeast portion, what it's looking to do is build four buildings that are four story apartments, approximately 450 units. It's at the Y of North Locust and also Elm Street and North Elm, right? And then there's Evers Park, the West Windsor is what wraps around here, right? The library is over here. The North Branch Library. So this gives you an idea where it's at. So one of the things that's up for discussion right now is we have a Evers, this is the Evers, I keep calling it instead of Evers Park, which is actually just north of Windsor. This is Evers Park up there. This is the Evers Farmhouse, this structure here, okay? And so it has all this nice thick wooded area and the developers plan is they want to develop this property. However, they're dedicating 10.2 acres of the property, total property, back to the city for the city to be able to use as a park or the public to use as they decide. They're only required to donate 2.42 acres. So to just bump back real quick, you can see that this is a good portion of the property over here. So a large part of the discussion for this public input, there's been a lot of talk about it, a lot of things going on. The main discussion points that they hosted had to do with tree preservation and the open space of that area, that woodland area, parkland development, timeline, different priorities that the city has, and also existing buildings and improvements there. So just to give you an idea how the discussion went, this is a flyer that they had sent out, and so this is an initial discussion, just as you can see, soliciting community input, we want to hear from you, bring us ideas, right? But it also turned into an information session, because there was a lot of misconceptions about what's going on with this property, right? So as I mentioned, not only in addition to this, this farm sale is actually not going to happen. The sale to JPI isn't happening until January, November sometime, and how this property was going to move forward in that kind of arrangement with the city for donating after the sale is finalized. So they're getting ahead of it, is my point, right? They're trying to stay in front of it and just say, "Hey, let's get some community input." There's a lot of feelings. People are feeling a lot of feels. So what to do with those 10.2 acres? And so there are two main kind of options that really kind of came out of the gate. First of all, keep the farmhouse or option to demolish that farmhouse, I'm sorry, one minute for a park, okay? And so it becomes a discussion of like trade-offs and costs, right? Because the big deal here is if you're going to use this building and you're going to use it for these big plans, what it might have to happen is this driveway might have to be developed and widened, which would threaten a lot of the trees in the areas around that area, right? So it would basically damage these old trees. However, if you wanted to keep a smaller footprint for footpaths, then that would entail a different type of plan. So they were just trying to get a bead on it. It was a real moving target. There were citizen ideas that were pitched if you want to pass that note card that's right there. So just to give you an idea, I don't have time for a lot of analysis strengths, weaknesses, opportunities. But one of the things Councilman Beck emphasizes says, look, either way, it's going to cost this money. There's nothing in the budget to take care of this. So we need to figure out what we're going to do with it. And so at the end of the day, the strengths are, hey, look, if you want to keep the farmhouse, you take a risk of destroying a lot of trees. If you want to keep the trees, then the farmhouse somehow needs to be go or be altered. There were several citizen ideas that were presented. And since I'm at time, I'll be happy to answer those if you have any questions. Thank you. So, yeah, so we, I don't guess we can have a discussion, so we can't really. Yeah, this is just an update. It's not really a discussion, but I wanted to give a second since I've yielded my time to see if our historic preservation officer or the other committee member who attended with me has any other thoughts or insights on that. Yeah, you can. I stand up. Yes, you can stand up. And I also take it over the slide deck. Do I have a limited amount of time? You're only, we're at four minutes. Four minutes. Yeah. So basically, I just want to hit on because the house for, I don't think this mechanics, you might be the only commission member who was here last month. Somebody came and talked about gave a nice presentation about the Eaters farmhouse, which she had lived at because she owned the house for quite some time. And that meeting was really designed some of the ideas that people brought up. That meeting was really more designed to talk about the farmhouse. So that the real issue is I think Commissioner Treat really hit on this, but the city will be responsible for all the costs of the upkeep and maintenance of that property. And because instead of it being somebody's personal private residence that is being preserved and held onto, there are a lot of other considerations about the quality of the foundation and various things that the city has to worry about. And it goes beyond just, what's that? Get it up to code. Get it up to code. It goes beyond just, I mean, the reason for the pavement, you're going to have to have space for emergency vehicles to come in and out. And it may be something that, from a cost benefit analysis, and again Commissioner Treat did a good job early explaining that, that it might, you know, cost, the cost might not weigh the benefits of preserving that property. Because again, it's going to be something the city owns. It's going to be an ongoing, you know, going concern where people can come and do things. And if that's going to be the case, it's going to be open to the public. A lot of work and potentially, you know, I don't know, there was no estimate. Nobody really knows how much it would cost. It would probably be a lot of money. So that wasn't that... They didn't have to pay to get an analysis anyway. They don't even know how much it's going to cost at this point. They were just giving ideas. Right. Just to get an analysis and estimates and all that. So, you know, from the perspective of preserving this property, again, because, and it kind of put it in perspective for me sitting there at that meeting, because it's not like it is a... Our typical people come in and they want to designate their properties as historic. It's not private. You know, landowners doing this, the city, they have to consider there are going to be tax increases to do that. I am not fully versed in all of the procedural matters that go into how they make the decision. Because right now, and also the other takeaway I got was it's still really, nobody really... There's not a final decision. And I don't think that we're close to one either. Yeah, that's years away. So the concept plan, I should have been clear. So there's a concept plan. Then there's kind of like a master plan. And then there's like a construction plan. I mean, we're like at least minimum three years away from any real decisions between like things actually happening on the property. So this was the first sound bowl. That's why it was important. They just want to get input. They're just taking the temperature of the public. So how important is the farmhouse, right? If you keep the farmhouse, that involves a cost-benefit analysis. And if you want to keep the woodland, that's a different cost-benefit analysis. And then there's a long-term care, as committee member points out. All right. I think I have gone way over the top. Thank you. No, it's okay. I appreciate it. Thank you all for both of your concluding items and updates. All right. So we have anything else? Any other concluding items to discuss? All right. There's no other business. Okay. Well, I guess we'll discuss this. Do we have to do something to put it on the agenda next time to discuss? I can just do that on my own. Okay, great. Okay. Well, there's no other business to take care of tonight. I'll now adjourn the meeting. And we are at 645, and the meeting stands adjourned. Thank you for your participation. And I would really apologize, but I dropped a diamond and gold earring in my bedroom this morning.