Jan 23, 2023 Historic Landmark Commission on 2023-01-23 5:30 PM (AMENDED on 1-20-2023)

So, the time is now 5.36, we've determined we have a forum, so we're going to call to order the meeting. The City of Denton meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission at 5.36, January 23rd, Monday. So we're going to start with the flags, so let us do the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, except the seniors. On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. Welcome everyone, I hope you have a nice new year in store. So, I think our first item is HLC 23-008, consideration of the minutes from the last meeting. Has anybody got any additions, comments, any changes to the minutes? If somebody does not recognize a change, I'll move approval of the minutes. Second. All right, all in favor, please. Aye. Aye, anybody opposed? Passes unanimously. Monica, don't forget to sign, I'll get you to sign, there's somebody to sign. All right, so moving on to the second item, this may be our longest thing for the day, is to elect a Chair and a Vice Chair for the Historic Landmark Commission. And there is an agenda sheet, oh, one right there, and maybe a done. Roy has gone out, he's resigned from the committee for health reasons, and hopefully we will send him a nice thank you card and get well soon card. He did a great long amount of service on the committee. So, we need to talk about Chair and a Vice Chair. There will be no replacement for Roy because he's from the district, I guess, that has no representative currently. And that will not happen until an election in May so that we have to, you know, do something now and then in June perhaps when somebody gets elected, have no idea, that will then add one more person on. So, we need to talk kind of about ideas of who should Chair, who should Vice Chair, with a look towards the future because I will be rolling off, my term ends, this is the end of my term. So, what you would be perfect to fill in then until we can get whatever that is. We need to bring in somebody though that at the end of this, at least as Vice Chair, that's ready to pick up the next going around. Not that I don't think anybody is not capable. I can do that or we can have somebody else. Let's just have a discussion. Well, isn't the most important thing to do to have a Chair, so that if you were Chair, volunteers? I think it would be better if we had a Chair that wouldn't have to roll off and redo it again, if that was possible. I'm not sure how you would explain to me, I'm a little slow today. You want a new Chair, that's right. What I'm saying is, if we do that, are we saying we'll have to have a Chair election again? Oh, we do it every year anyway. So, if you ended up electing Mary today, say for instance, when her term came to close on August 31st, and say whoever her council member is decided to replace her immediately, then we would have to have a new election at that point. But if they don't replace her immediately, then we're okay. Until January of 2024. That would apply to a Chair and Vice Chair. And usually they aren't all that happy to replace somebody, because they have to find somebody to replace them with, and that's not always easy. That makes sense. I thought you were saying we would have to do now and then again in May, and I thought that would make sense. We should get a new person on in June, if we're lucky. However, if the new council member is able to fill their slots across. Okay, that makes sense. Otherwise, we're stuck with a quorum of five, even though there are only six members. It would be a quorum of four still, but only six members. Okay. Yeah, it's a little more difficult. I mean, my preference is to have somebody that sort of is tightly associated with the historic district be either Chair or Vice Chair. That's just a preference I personally have. That's certainly not a requirement. And I guess Kason isn't here, so he is not eligible to be in the current election. Correct. I guess do we want to continue to talk about it, or do we want just to -- You have to nominate, I think, nominations. But I'm saying do we want to nominate right away, or do we want to continue to discuss who's possible? I'll just say I really would not be considered. Oh, absolutely. I can't be considered. I'm going to be fighting with the city forever. Okay. Well, that took out who I was going to have. That's who I was going to do. You. That's who I like better. Cassandra, Angie, me, that, yeah, that's what we're looking at. I think we're looking at Mary and you guys. Oh, are you? Yeah, I don't know. It's just the three of us that we can talk about right now. Well, can we do one on one? Let's see. Who's not here? Kason. Kason. And so he's not eligible for out of recession. Unlike academics, where you will put people in if they get nominated, but they're not present here, you have to be present. Yes. I was just thinking. Well, I didn't wait and you would be it when you walked in the door. Can I add for clarification? Is he just not eligible because he's not here to be part of the conversation? Yes. The other option that I would just put out there is that if the commission wants additional time and consideration to think about it, I mean, we can always repost this item for the next meeting. And if you're wanting to include case and in that conversation, obviously, we've got Mary for this evening to carry us through because she is our vice chair. But if so, we can either take action tonight or if it's up to which the commission to postpone it to the next meeting. Marcella, I would think we would have that action. We can still take action on Mary and elevate her and have just one vacancy. Is that correct? Yes, that could be an option. Yeah. I mean, if I was going to make a suggestion, I'm happy to finish up the term. I would suggest Angie since she and I know she lives in the neighborhood. That means that it would open it up for case and to come in if he wants to join in in the summer to do to do that job. But I'm perfectly open. Angie is willing to take the chair. That would be fun. I'm happy where I'm at. Yeah, okay. You know, it's good for me because I may be traveling somewhere. All right. So let's do it. You want to nominate? Yes. Yes. Please give a nomination. I nominate Angie chair. Okay. Commission. Any second? Do we have the second half? Okay, good. All right. Good. Let's clarify that. All right. All those in favor. Let's vote for. All right. Anybody opposed? All right. Good. It passes unanimously. All right. And did you vote? Did everyone vote for Mary to be vice chair? Is that was part of the vote? It was not. There was no vote on that. There is. You have to be re-appointed over here. Oh, yeah. Okay. So that wasn't part of the original motion. Yes. I'll have to do a second motion. I'll do a second motion. For Mary to be the vice chair. Second. All right. So that's good. So you want to start? Should she finish? What we have done with other boards and commissions that have been involved with is we've had the new appointee take effect at the next meeting so allow Mary to continue serving the meetings. Yes. Yeah. No. The motion just now. Yeah. We didn't vote all together. Oh, yeah. Okay. So. Yes. All in favor of Mary. Okay. Yeah. Sure. Why not? It's an easy job. Okay. All right. Okay. Now. So is that passed unanimously? Anybody? Let's see. What do we have left to do? We've done with all of our consideration items. Yes. We have a work session to discuss and determine the opportunities for public outreach and education by the Historic Landmark Commission and do you have a, do you think you sent us out as email? Yes. I sent. Last week or I think two weeks ago I sent out an email just saying start thinking of ideas and I shared the preliminary plans for Preservation Month. So just wanted to see, because I know this is a topic that's been on our matrix for a while. There has been discussion prior of wanting to do something for Preservation Month. I did receive from the county that they do not want to actually host an event. They just want to volunteer. So that's their plans as the County Historical Commission. You all are allowed to obviously do the same thing. I would love to have the HLC participate, but I wanted to bring that forward because it is something that we continuously talk about as a commission and as staff and seeing how we want to kind of get out into the public and educate everyone about historic preservation. So I don't know if anyone came with ideas today or had any suggestions that they were thinking about. But as you can see kind of from what we have so far, we have a series of events. We have the proclamation which will take place on May 2nd. Myself and the county, Kim Cupid, will be doing a lecture called Revealing Lost Denton. Chuck Bollinger from the library and Kim Cupid also from the county. They are going to be doing an IOOF cemetery tour. Anna Kramer from UNT is going to be doing a lecture about the portals of Texas history research. And then Integrated Environmental Solutions which is based in Denton. They are going to do a headstone conservation workshop trying to figure out the time. But that's going to be at the MLK Center in Oakwood Cemetery. It's going to be about a three hour workshop which will be great. They are going to be cleaning headstones. Brent Heider, he's a Fort Worth homeowner. He's going to talk about -- do a restoration lecture. We have Denton County's International Museum Day. And then Stronger Denton, Denton Main Street Association in the city are going to do Imagine the Possibilities tour which is mainly centered around vacancies and real estate. And they are still trying to figure out some of the timing so that's why it's in gray in the locations. Also they are going to be doing their historic bark roll. Denton Parks and Recreation, they are going to do a clear creek walking tour centered around landscape -- cultural landscapes and their importance to the community. And then Chamber of Farmers is going to be ending it with a Denton trivia. So these are just -- these are the events we have so far. Obviously I would love for the Historic Landmark Commission to participate in some way, whether that's also volunteering for these events, similar to what the county is doing, or coming up with an event of your own. But just wanted to share this with you all. So the county members are participating -- are they volunteering for just various -- Yes. -- whatever they choose to -- okay. Yes, I spoke to Gary and he's their chair and he spoke to their commission and they stated that they were going to take whatever the finalized schedule was and pick and choose amongst the commission which ones they participated in as a volunteer. They weren't ready to actually host an event at this time. Okay. I've found somebody in Fort Worth also that is in, I think, the Fairmont District who is interested in talking about restoration and who actually does restoration as opposed to moving things. Oh, right. So Brent Heider, he reached out to us because he's the one who restored his home. Oh, yeah. He did it personally? Mm-hmm. Wow. I'm impressed. Supposedly it took him about 10 years. Yeah. So he had reached out to the county and the county asked him if he'd be interested in doing a restoration lecture, but that's an opportunity for that. Maybe they could pair up together. Right, exactly. Since they're both from the Fort Worth area. They'll send you the information. Well, I think the thing that we have to really work on is how to get the word out, how to let the public know without our newspaper, which we are effectively without one now. You know, we used to have a newspaper and it had a calendar inside the front page. Okay. I could read and see what was going on, what was coming up. That's no longer in existence. Now, we all, like the senior center, it tries to publish, send out a few things and lay things on the counter and all. It's not nearly as effective as having some place where people can just go and see what's happening and what's coming up and all. I don't know. I think it's a problem for everybody, but I'm not sure that anybody is really working on figuring out how to, because everybody seems to think we're all going to, what is that little site you go to? Facebook or Instagram or something. Yeah, or those things and finding out about these. And most people aren't. And they take place and then you tell somebody and they say, oh, I wish I had known. Well, we could do a little next door. I mean, that's what I want to do. Yeah. And what about the web page is like the Denton, Discover Denton. You can post events on there. How often have you been to Discover Denton? It's not a Facebook. I'm just thinking about non-Facebook social media. Yeah, anything. That's why next door is at least a few more people. So do you feel that flyer? So when you walk into some of the city buildings, we have flyers posted in the front window. Do you feel like those are a good addition or they're not really doing anything? How often do we walk in the front door? So like in the senior center, if we put in the front window, so right when you're walking in that front door and you see a flyer, would you read it or would you just keep walking? Most likely we would read it. Okay. If it wasn't grocery stores or pharmacies or something. Coffee shops. Coffee shops. Okay. Coffee shops. Cameron, I had mentioned some time ago, I didn't follow up with you about it, but were there any discussions further about creating some type of activity or whatever to do within the schools? We talked about that when we were meeting via Zoom about making the kids, getting the kids and as well as the teachers aware and having some type of activity, be it a fact sheet or whatever, withdraw kids. I mean, into finding out. So if the first part of the month, if there had been something, first part of May, excuse me, would have been something that had gone to the teachers to say, will you engage your students in this activity? Maybe have it set up based on grade level. And when you talk about like a cemetery tour, what would it have been like to have had something made it for high schoolers and make it seem like it was something spooky, fun, TikTok-ish? But you know, I think you're right because I think I'm all for the education piece of it, but I don't want it to stop in elementary school because I think sometimes it just falls flat down. Yeah, I'm thinking about all like elementary middle. And so like you have a grade, like I said, TikTok thing for both the middle school and some of the elementary kids on there too, you know, and have a, you know, spooky historic tour. Or what is it? What was it? Pac-Man or something you could play? Pokemon Go. Was that what it was? Where they were all going through? Pokemon. Yeah, I don't do it, but that's what everybody loves. You can put them all in historic. They probably wouldn't, the neighbors would not like us. The cemetery is really a very historical cemetery. It is. Maybe work out something, maybe with the teen library because like my child, she goes to this after school thing, but a lot of kids now are just walking up to the North Branch Library. Okay. And you know, something there for them to possibly do that the library can introduce them to. I would say so, but not listed. The only thing that deals with younger children education thus far is a story time. And that's usually just ages one through five. And it's stories about preserving different cultural traditions. But we let the library handle that specifically because they have a woman who's in charge of story time for children and child education. So she picks the stories and we just tell her it's preservation month. You choose which books you want to read. But we hadn't pursued anything with the schools because I know that the county commission goes into the schools, but I don't know what their programming is. And that's something I did not speak to the county about or the library this year. What about Parks and Rec? I mean, a lot of kids go to the Parks and Rec thing. So that's why they're doing the Clear Creek walking tour because Parks and Rec didn't participate last year and we wanted them to participate in some capacities. So they felt that cultural landscapes would be a good topic to cover in terms of preservation because we don't really cover that specifically. Most of what's been covered thus far last year and this year is the built environment, which is great, but preservation is a lot more than that. So we're trying to kind of get outside of just the built environment itself. So that's why there's a headstone conservation and then obviously the Clear Creek walking tour. But I think you have a really good point. I think that is something that definitely needs to be done. I think that would be something that we need to see what the county does. We don't step on their toes and see what their educational, I guess, resources that they do right now with the schools is. Because I do think they have learning days where they go in and teach a class from what I understand. Don't quote me on that. I will do more research is basically what I'm saying. But I think you bring up a good point. So I think that's definitely something that we could do that wasn't that's not currently on this list. We talked to about in some way making making them aware that your position is even a thing because who? Even in high school, I want to go up to be a city. Historic preservation officer. No, I didn't know what it was either. So I'm not offended. That's true. I think kind of like a career fair. I don't know if the city does the career fair. But if they were to make this cool video with you saying who you are and what you do and maybe have a couple of places that are considered to be the most prominent. I don't know if prominent is a term historic places in Denton. You know, did you know that back in eighteen something something that the house that you passed by on Oak Street was built by so and so so and so something like that. And maybe the teachers would consider showing or, you know, making it. If you make a video, then you don't have to try to go to all the schools, but as the teachers, they're having a career fair type or talking about preservation to do that video in May. That's a great idea. I'm playing at the movie theaters. Like they did, we go to the movie and they have the police officer on there and he said, you know, lock it or whatever. A lot of makeup on me. That's a great idea. I think that's a really good idea, especially with all going to since it's not just city. It's supposed to be counted wide. It's something that, you know, is hard as, you know, staff and HLC and even the county. It's educating that younger audience and letting them informing them what preservation is because a lot of them don't know what that is. They don't know, especially I feel like a lot of them are surrounded by social media. So they're like, oh, I'm going to be like a journalist who does social media or, you know, the next tick tock star. I'm not sure. I still don't really understand tick tock, but don't worry. You can't use it. So it's not allowed. But I think you have a really good point. And so I made no awareness about your position because I remember telling you earlier on when I was impressed with your credentials. I didn't know that was a thing, you know, and some of the positions I've had in the past, I didn't go upset. I wanted to do that because I didn't know it was a thing. I think it's great. I think it's a good early. Did the newspaper ever air your interview? I never got noticed. Let me let me check on that. Okay. Yeah, I typed in a few keywords that I thought maybe I could find something. Okay. But I didn't find anything. Okay. So they just did the transition across. Yeah, I know it was. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I'll ask her the new. Okay. There's also a new body. By the way, John didn't. U.N.T. is publishing what it's worth. Is there a way for us to promote the restoration lecture? And the reason I say that is I really feel like an historic district that we have. That is something that is very much of an interest of people trying to even keep up with our restore historic structures, even even commercial buildings. So, I mean, I don't know. Thoughts on. Well, I was going to say people maybe had to put in for a COA in the last two years, but that wouldn't hit some of the people that I was saying. I don't know. I'm just thinking if all these other things I think are fabulous. But I'm thinking as a homeowner, Home Depot and yes, something like Home Depot. But even if they're not going to Home Depot, something that they're thinking about. For them, along with that restoration lecture, not saying with it at the same time or something, but just knowing processes, knowing COA, knowing the commission here on those types of things. I think almost I mean, even if we can almost host like reception for the people in historic districts or even something like that, just something that would be. And I think I know I definitely think that's something that's important. You know, I'm doing it over Paul to the website, but that's not something that people always check out in terms of you, especially when it comes to certificates of appropriateness. So I think that's definitely something that it would be great to gather everyone who's in a local historic district or even the National Register District, or even just owns a historic property and say come one, come all. Let's have a discussion about restoring your historic properties and what that process looks like. And then if you're within a local historic district, this is how your process kind of changes. You do have some other hoops that you have to jump through, but, you know, it is really to preserve that sense of place and identity of what was and where it's going in the future. And to me it would be for information, not question and answer. Correct. And because I think it was always the historic tour at Christmas time and there's one cover that was from the famous artist there was an artist and didn't have painted all these beautiful watercolors on the historic district homes. Oh yeah, as a lady as a lady and you know I saw her house I didn't realize it was associated but there's a beautiful picture of a house that used to be on the corner of oak. And I don't know if it was Denton, or where the doctor's office is now I forget which street that is. And it was incredibly beautiful Victorian, and it was torn down to make. It was torn down just to put up churches pastors on what you know it's just this house was beautiful, it just breaks my heart that you know I think we need to encourage and show what happens, would you rather look at this or would you rather look at this situation just trying to encourage people. So that's this different situation. Well, come on, a single, a single flat roofed house is kind of, but that's kind of marry what we're going to be covering the revealing lost and so we're going to be doing just photos of what didn't look like in the past and revealing to people what they are now, whether the structure still there or if it's a parking lot or if it's, you know, the school or whatever it may be. So we're going to just kind of take people through that before and after, just so that people can see the change of doesn't over time, and maybe have a discussion of why preservation is important. Obviously in some cases it's inevitable that you redevelop areas, it happens it's the only way that city grows. But at the same time, there are those instances where you really did lose, you know, a gem that you can never replace and get back. So those are those kind of conversations that we're hoping to have with that lecture specifically and including like the cities, like, I don't know, grapevine and McKinney and how much economic advantage they had because they say historic areas, all people says Frisco is growing but it has no history whatsoever or McKinney got really moving just because of the downtown. And instead of promoting some of our properties not necessarily historic but like done by artists from all over like O'Neill Ford's. Oh yes. That's right. It is going and whatever this is that they plan to do with city hall I'm sure he'll roll over twice and grave and we'll have to while we won't know he ever did that building in the first place it'll bear no relation what it started out as. So, I'll make sure I did all this work in San Antonio and I'm a native San Antonio and so he was honored when I know I haven't seen that I'll try to bring any other. I'll say this is a really good discussion I have lots of good notes taking I can see myself as a lot of notes as well. I guess just as a, I think I heard my next neighbor was telling me that she was getting her garden ready for historic debt was doing a garden tour in April so it might be something that we can piggyback on to get people to, you know, come to and we could put notices up and those venues about what we were doing. And if, if we do go further with that restoration lecture like that for our historic districts to, if we, if we did that, I would want to add in that tax incentive credit. Yes, yes. Okay. That I think a lot of people don't know about. But it's mainly for businesses. Is it the one for specifically designated properties at the local level or you're talking about the state and federal, I'm talking about if you spend so much money on your home, okay, just confirming. Okay. Oh, the home that's that's so she's talking about the local. So, which is businesses and residential so local. Okay. I think that'd be great. I think that's definitely something we want to advertise and tell people that, you know, you have this opportunity to take advantage of this, especially if you designate error, or you have a historically significant property. So, just know that's out there disposal. Yeah, the question our problem with communication now is the fact that we have too many of those. Toxin, and whoever else it is, and all of those is there isn't a one source or two, which was what we've had before we've had one newspaper or two newspapers. That was about it. And there it was. So, right. But now it's so fragmented and I just cannot tell you the number of times I hear people say I didn't know about that. So what have people asked you specifically Lenny that where they wish they could have seen it, just so that I can make note of it, aside from a non existent newspaper. Okay. Okay. That was just, that was just the thing now with the kids, but you have to choose between all those tick tocks and Instagram and Facebook and all those, because different ones are looking at different ones all the time. Right. Use them all get a social media czar. Well, as I say, I'm just gonna marry I'm just gonna give you the next storm and be like, here's the calendar, can you put it on next door. I do next door a little. So, any more discussion or showing move on to the next item. We answered your questions. I'd say move on. Okay. I got lots of good notes and I think I have a direction moving forward in terms of the restoration lecture and then obviously bringing awareness and looking at recordings but also seeing how we can get involved with the schools. I just had one idea that came to mind regarding the restoration lecture camera problem we did the postcards, like Lenny all the social media aspects that are out there but we that might be something we can go old school on and postcard because I was thinking that the postcard that we've sent out to at least all of the local districts. Yeah, like, I thought it was nice attention. I seem to recall that was a very nominal cost for us that we could probably look at, see if we could do something that way just as a gold school means of communicating out. Just let people know that preservation months coming and then specifically restoration lecture if you have historic property definitely tune in, come and attend to Angie's point I mean it's right, the opportunities for dissemination of information key programs but with people having properties within our various historic districts that would be a good way to maybe capture their attention in letting you know that event. Okay, sounds good. Good ideas. People have been thinking. I love it. So to move on to HLC 23 dash 005 discuss point a commissioner to the definition ad hoc committee. This isn't here. There anyone that would like to join. What do you do. Hello. Right, well we have a list of things that we're going through, trying to define that tax credit. So the role of the definitions ad hoc committee is to, first of all, was to define what improvements and rest are improvements and restorations are to receive tax incentives to those tax credits. First defining those because that was a council question. So that was first and foremost, yeah. And then you have to go. The second was looking at sub chapter two and going through some chapter two specifically in terms of historic processes and procedures and seeing what needs to be updated for the historic aspect in terms of historic landmark commission coa's historic landmark destinations, all of those different steps. And then the third was creating guidelines that you all kind of could read upon when you, for instance, come across solar panels, or fencing. Windows, windows, kind of having a basic guideline that you all follow so that one when people come in, they're not completely surprised if they get denied or approved, but also so that you all remain consistent so that down the line someone can't say oh well I'm going to sue the city because they've been so inconsistent with their approvals and denials of, you know, for example, windows. So, that's, those are the three kind of main ones that the definition ad hoc committee is addressing. So, Lance removed himself could do to work conflicts. Last meeting in December, so we have Angie and then case on that. Taking it like eating an elephant one by the time you're not trying to eat the whole element. Yeah, I like that. It's a beast, that's for sure, but it sounded like it was one by the time right. Okay, so we have a volunteer Sandra has volunteered to be on the definitions ad hoc committee is important work, it will be exciting. Let's see. So this is that item that we brought originally in November, that's going to be a reoccurring items similar to the matrix where you all bring forward a property that you think is worthy of historic landmark designation. And then you do your two minute pitch similar to city council, you make your argument as to why you think of it's important. You all vote, it needs a minimum of three votes, if you receive before sorry for votes and if it receives the board votes, then I put it on a list that is kind of a living list of properties that we wanted to get designated and done. And then I can give it back to you and then you can present it next meeting. Okay, it's actually the house that goes where the owner of ravel and bakery. There's the house behind it. And he's got all the restoration of it. Oh yeah, I've always seen that house. I love that house. Yes, yes. He lived there. So he doesn't have to commute to come in at four o'clock in the morning to bake bread. Oh, I love it. I love Eric and forget his wife's name, but I love those folks. That's what I put it as ravel and bakery house. So I'll do a little research for you and I'll send it your way. Sounds good. Okay. Because I love that house so much. Me too. Yeah. So I've made my contribution for the day. You're next. All right, so we're probably out here. See if you've got some attachments for us. Nope. Nope, nope. Okay. Item 3D. 3D. Oh, sorry. Holds a special regarding the Historic Landwork Commission's project matrix. Yes. That's it. So the ordinance regarding membership qualifications, that's going to be coming back in a future meeting. The historic property ownership being removed. The quantifying the economic impact of preserving historic properties. Benefits of preserving historic properties in cities incentivizing owners. That's definitely a larger conversation, so that will be coming out at a future meeting. In regards to, I do have presentation preliminary guidelines regarding property features, fencing windows for use for the public and HLC. I do have that being presented in early 2023. I'm happy to change that because that's definitions ad hoc. So I can say summer of 2023 if that provides you all some time. But that's definitely something that I've left on the matrix. We do have a presentation from DME regarding the solar panels in early 2023, as I stated, hopefully next month. We'll see I'm still waiting for that. And then these were just items that have been kind of sitting here in terms of Historic Landmark Commission. We've already kind of had this discussion so I can remove that. And then annual update. This is going to be still presented in 2023. I don't know if you've legal had time to do that research. It's almost done. It'll probably come in the form of a memo and then if you guys have questions we can schedule a meeting with whoever the relevant kind of individual that would be best to present that. But it'll probably be more of a memo form than a presentation form. And then obviously our future meetings are February 13th and March 6th. But yeah, so if you all want to add anything or if you all are good with this and I just remove everything that was presenting today and update. So a little bit. You feel like this was the only covered a little bit since it didn't. But we haven't got a concrete thing. Gotcha. Okay. I mean I think it's made a lot of progress. Okay. Okay. So I will remove this item. Hopefully we'll have this item next time. I will update this item regarding definition ad hoc committee update to hopefully summer 2023. We'll just keep that as a temporary no set date. Is it possible to back up to something so on this definitions ad hoc committee the work done that does that have any impact on. About staff give a direction on historic men or designation. Okay. I think it's working your way through it pretty well. Sounds good. I just want to add one thing actually to back up a little bit. I'm so glad to see there's going to be a presentation by someone from UOT about the portal to Texas history because there's so many items that is if you're not familiar with it's an astoundingly huge. Publicly available searchable database of Texas history. It's filled with local history. I went there just last weekend and I was so astounded I had never seen it. The word is really getting around but it's a really special thing. They've been working on it for years at UNT. And so a lot of our questions about Denton are probably answerable in there. It was really cool. I have a picture of my parents who went to a tiny college back 50 years ago. That picture I've never seen. It's all kinds of stuff. Belcher and Sybil's Bend I was doing all of that. It had everything you wanted to know about these ghost towns and stuff. That was cool. Exactly. So, yeah, that's great. Yeah. It should be a really interesting look, Sharon. Yes. There's the timing was a little earlier. Yes, I know. Let's see. Do we have any other? We finished all of our items. Is there any new business that we haven't -- that we need to bring up? We've done all of the consideration. Is there anything else on here? Does anybody have a motion? I move we adjourn. Second. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. Well done, everybody.