Sep 12, 2022 Public Utilities Board on 2022-09-12 9:00 AM

Okay. Good morning. It's 9.01 and we do have a quorum, so we'll call to order the City of Denton Public Utilities Board for Monday, September 12th, 2020. The first item is presentations from members of the public. Is anyone from the public wishing to speak this morning? Okay. Seeing none, the next item is consent agenda. Does any board member wish to remove an item A through F on the consent agenda? I see none. Do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So Mr. Rybeck moves. Ben seconds. I just had a memory loss on your last name. All in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carries. Aye for me too. Next item is consider approval of the August 22nd minutes. Were there any corrections to the minutes? Seeing none, do we have a motion to approve the minutes? Devin's moved and Larry second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Carries. The next three items we're going to call all at once since they're all regarding the same haulers contracts. Mr. Boehner. Good morning. I'm Brian Boehner. I am the Director of Solid Waste for the City of Denton, and I appreciate the opportunity today to talk about the waste hauler agreements that are before you for consideration. A little bit of just a primer real quick. What is a waste hauler agreement? In the industry we call it a put or pay contract, and that's really what it is. We contract with private haulers to put a defined amount of volume into the landfill at a set price, whether they put it there or not. So just say for example we have 100 tons that they're going to guarantee us for $100 even if they only deliver 90 tons they still owe us the $100. So what it does is it really guarantees and allows us to do some things from a revenue standpoint. First of all guaranteed revenue stream. So we're not always concerned about what's coming in, what's going out. On a monthly basis it's stabilized. Secondarily it stabilizes the rates for the residents. So again our residents are able to enjoy the benefit of the resource and the asset that we have. And really it aids us in long term planning for our operations such as staffing, equipment purchases, trying to prepare for growth. From a history standpoint operating as a regional facility since 1985 we have always accepted waste from waste haulers. Certain waste haulers had accounts and had beneficial rate preferences but it was never codified, never put into a contract. Just you got it. About three years ago what we did is we went ahead and tried to put this actually into a contract, a little more equitable standpoint, actually treated the capacity as an asset and put it out on the open market. And at that point we had four contractors, haulers that stepped forward and two entities that we entered into three year contracts with. At that time we didn't set a ceiling on how much waste we wanted. It was like okay you tell us how much capacity you need, how much you're gonna pay for it. And really and that's what you delivered. So we had a significant amount of material that was coming into the landfill. But the thing about it was even though there were recycling programs that were going on with these programs and these waste haulers were bringing in, we didn't know what they were. We didn't know how much material was being diverted. So really there was no incentive to recycle. It was open market for lack of a better term. As a result of these three year contracts couple things happened. First of all we significantly paid down our outstanding debt, got our finances under control. Secondarily as we continue to discuss we were able to reduce residential rates. So those of you who are, everybody here is a city of Denton resident. So hopefully over the past three years you noticed that we dropped the rate four or five dollars and really we continue to work to maintain that rate structure. - Say Brian before you move on I'm sorry to interrupt. So you mentioned that we significantly paid down our debt. What is the history of that debt just for informational purposes? - When you ask about history what did that debt go for? Yeah, there were some property purchases we made for our expansion. There were several programs also that were envisioned at that point that required a lot of machinery, a lot of upfront costs that were never put into practice. Or they shut down rather rapidly so we had this long term debt piece but really no operation to offset it. So really that's what we were trying to control. - Thank you. - Thank you. So over these past three years we've been listening to the community, listening to council, listening to people. And there's always been the argument about well you're filling up the landfill, you're losing life. Well in these three years the contracts that were brought in we lost approximately 90 days of life per year. So about three quarters of a year of landfill life of the 55 years that we currently have was lost as a result of these contracts. And again this waste would have come here anyway or a majority of it would. So it's kind of a, it's a non-equitable comparison but again that's what the waste accounts for. There was a concern about increase in landfill traffic. Currently we're averaging about 500 transaction a day total. 25% of that comes from these waste haulers. Another 25% comes from our city of Denton operation. What's interesting is that 50% of the people that come across the scale day in and day out are actually cash customers. They're either the independent landscapers, independent contractors bringing material to us or it's the mom and pops that are just cleaning out the garage that you know need to get rid of material. A little side note here, keeping involved in the industry people were wringing their hands over COVID. We are locked down, we're not gonna see the waste, it's gonna affect us. No, landfill traffic shot up because you can only mow the yard so much, you can only weed the petunia bed so much. What are you gonna do? You're gonna clean out the garage. So we just saw a lot of material coming in over that COVID period. So and that adds into that and we haven't really seen that plateau or drop off. That number continues to rise. So again as an asset with the growth that's happening in this area, you see it coming up through Frisco, through Argyle, it's sandwiching us in here and people are coming bringing us materials as they're getting ready to move. So also another concern was the contract link. We went from three years in this proposal to two years as we move forward. Historically or currently what's in this proposal or notice of intent that was issued 8005. What we did is instead of setting an open market, we decided to put a ceiling or excuse me, I'm getting ahead of myself. What we decided to do is recognize the asset of the landfill itself. Under the previous contracts, we set the floor at $27 a ton. We realized very quickly we significantly underbid that asset that we have. So we raised the minimum bid to $35 a ton delivered. We recognized the asset but also we had to remain cost competitive in the region. There are basically three or four other facilities in this area and that puts us in direct cost equality with them so it then just becomes transportation which facility is closer and at that point, City of Denton wins out. Secondly, we put a ceiling on disposal tons. In the old contracts, we basically said, you tell us what you're gonna bring us and we'll contract with you. This time we said no, we're gonna put a cap on it. So instead of almost 200,000 tons a year that we're currently bringing in, we set that ceiling of 125,000. So really just 60% of what we're currently taking in. What we did do though is put some skin in the game for the waste haulers. What we wanna be able to do again is recognize that diversion that's currently out there but also incentivize additional opportunities to divert. So if you need additional capacity, you're not just going to get another 10, 15% next year as part of the contract, you're gonna have to show us why you need it. So if you can divert, let's say, let's put that 100 ton example out there. Let's say you can divert 10 more tons to recycling, that gives you 10 more tons of capacity. So you divert the recycling, that gives you 110 tons and again, so you're working, we get the benefit and then most importantly is we get to recognize, first of all, who your customers are but secondarily, what's actually being diverted and we can show that as the diversion number from the City of Denton Landfill. Mr. Beck. - Yeah, Ryan, thanks. I'm glad to see that the recycling incentive is there but I guess it's also saying that they don't have to, they just kind of lose out on this discount if they don't. Is that right? - Potentially yes. - Okay. - But again, I've talked to all these guys and they're excited about it. It's like, it makes a whole lot of sense. A lot of the stuff we're currently doing, we wanna be able to be recognized for it, put that shit in our bin but also it gives them an opportunity to look at some other programs, whether it's curbside recycling and again, we're talking about not just recycling, we're talking about diversion. So recycling is again, is that programmatic material in the bin by the curb but again, you can divert yard waste, you can divert electronics, you can divert appliances. So if you've got programs out there that manage that other material that we would potentially receive and would go into the landfill, then by all means, let's give you credit for it. - And it looks like based on lowering your tonnage per year and going from a three to two year contract that there's some concern that, well, I would ask is this likely not to be sustainable long down the road where we can't take care of our own or? - No, no, that's not the reason. - Okay. - Recently, y'all approved our City of Denton's comprehensive solid waste management strategy and really what we're doing right now in these first couple of years is starting to spin up programs and part of that will be managed through some regionalization of some processes that we're gonna be proposing such as our home chemical collection. Right now, we're the only city basically in Denton County, possibly Frisco that offers a home chemical collection but we've got a bunch of small cities in this area. So we want to be able to take that type of material, recognize that diversion. Looking at yard waste programs, I know that in talking with our partners over at the water and wastewater plant, we've got this terrific program called Dino Dirt but we could really grow that and if we're gonna be feeding food waste into that, we need more yard waste to help brown and green the compost mixture. So again, working with them to actually have yard waste diversion programs instead of sending it. Think about construction demolition debris, boards that are this long that are going to landfill but they're perfectly good. If we can find a contractor that wants those short pieces of board to make chipboard or whatever else out of. So these are the type of things that we want to be able to recognize. And if we put a three-year contract, it may be too far down the line to be able to roll that in but a two-year it gives us time to put these programs in place so that when the next two years start, we can actually give you some benefit and maybe even use our asset here to drive more material that way economically. - Okay, thanks. - Thank you. - Mr. Rybeck, go ahead. - Go ahead. - Okay, I thought you were looking over there. I love the allowance program. I think as part of this program, that's a great idea. Why the 10% cap and you could incentivize them more, 20%, 25%? - We could, we could. But I think part of it was let's get our, let's, you know, the rule of nature is you crawl, you walk, you run. And so let's crawl here, see what it is and then, you know, get our hands up. And if it needs to be bigger than the next two years, we can incentivize that even more. - And again, with the two years, we have that time to look at what we've done at 10%. - Exactly. - So we can go to 20 or 25 based on real data. - And in reality, I don't think that they're going to say, well, here's just the 10%. They're gonna come in and say, okay, we were able to divert 45%. So when you're looking, you know, so we get a, you know, what is actually happening in the market, but also it gives us the opportunity to understand what those drivers are in the private sector, those people that have private companies picking up things at the curb. It allows us to try to work with them to widen the market, so to speak. - Go ahead. - Thank you. So I found that the page in the con, the, I guess this is in the bid, perhaps it's in the bid about talking about this-- - 10%. - 10%-- - Yes. - Diverted allowance, I'm not quite understanding. So is that like, they have a, you know, 50,000 ton a year, or we'll do the 100, 100 ton a year allowance in the contract. They divert, is it a one for one? They divert 10 tons, they get that additional 10 tons? - Yes, it is net, so net 10 tons. So let's say you take 30 tons to the Murph, but 20 tons of it is contaminated and goes out the back end and goes to the landfill. They only get credit for the 10 tons that is net recycled. So it's not the 30 tons, it's the 10 tons. - And then they, so now they're putting 110 tons in the landfill, some 10 or 20 at the Murph, something like that. - Correct. - And they're still paying the $35 or whatever contract rate for that additional? - 10 tons, correct. - And the Murph, is that also billed, or is that like free or discounted or its own rate? - That is the private, that is their private contract with whatever it is. I will tell you that from an industry standard right now, most people are paying between 65 and $95 a ton to process material through a Murph. It's not cheap, but again, from a conservation standpoint, people are willing to pay that. But again, you've got revenue on the back end, as long as the market's up, you know, you're not technically paying quite that much. - And so basically they pay $65 a ton and they get palletized material they could sell, something like that. - Yeah, but the Murph operators are all private sector. So they have the paper market and the plastics and the glass, they've got places to send this. - Okay, and they don't have to bring it to our Murph, they just have to prove they're taking it to some diversion, some approved diversion. - Yeah, and they can't just send us a letter saying, here's what we did, we've got to have the Murph reports, the public reports, they get back from the Murph that shows what that balance is. - Okay, and that, and it is a one for one though, 10 tons over here equals 10 tons. - It is a one for one, correct, up to 10 tons. - Thank you. - Okay, yes sir. - Just keep rolling here. All right, so I went to the landfill for the first time recently myself, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question, but just to ask it for the record, is it possible to divert anything after customers put it in the pile? I know, I know. I mean, for example, so when I was there, I saw a lot of electronics, TVs, furniture, desks, chairs, wood scraps, things that could be used or refurbished had it been put somewhere else, is it even remotely feasible to somehow divert that? - It is feasible, but before it reaches the working face. Once material hits the working face and touches the tipping floor, it is considered trash. It is probably the most unsafe thing that you can do to try to pull material out of there. Again, employees and customer safety comes first. So once it hits the floor, it's in the landfill. But as part of that comprehensive solid waste management strategy, we wanna set in place those opportunities that if you come to the landfill and you've got that desk, or you've got that article that can be diverted, you can go through and divert that material before you go to the working face, so it never goes there. And you do it at a much less cost than what you would be paying at the gate rate. - So how does somebody like me clean out my garage? I've got an old TV, some wood scraps. I don't recall seeing where to take those things. Is that-- - You are correct. - Okay. - Yeah, that currently, I mean, it's extremely arduous to find something. First place I would go to is on the City of Denton's Recycle website. We have what's called the Waste Wizard. You go in there, you type in, I have an old file cabinet. And it'll say-- - Tells you what to do with it basically. - What to do with it basically. But what we wanna do is try to make it a little more simple and find those operators who will step forward and actually create opportunities at the landfill or some other place that's centrally located for you to take that material. - Great, thanks. - All right. - Okay, I think you can keep going. - All right, so when we put our notice of intent out, we had four waste haulers that proposed. And really, we exceeded the volume of tonnage that we were willing to contract by almost double. So again, three guys, one, one guy, you know. If you would've sweetened his bid just a little bit more, we may be looking at two contracts instead of three. But at the end of the day, we selected the best three bids that provided the highest cost and source of revenue to the city. And what was interesting is the tonnage that came in was actually below the maximum amount contemplated. So we're not at the 125 tons maximum that we were looking at. The three haulers we'll be considering today are Waste Connections, Rhino Removal, and Frontier Waste. Their initial bid was 105,000 tons with that 10% allowance. We're looking at 115,500 ton with potential revenues of 4.2 million. We're also looking at two interlocal agreements that you'll probably be seeing here within the next few weeks. Two government entities have expressed an interest in continuing their relationship with us. We wanted to work to memorialize those agreements of tonnage and rate. We're not including a diversion incentive with that, but we will get any sort of diversion recognition back through them. And we'll be working to create programs for the next contract to help them from a regional standpoint. Those two are the city of Little Elm and Wise County. So again, they've proposed 5,400 tons with revenue of $189,000. So when all is said and done, if you look at the previous contracts with their 10% plus what we're looking at the interlocal agreements, we could be looking at the potential of 121,000 tons roughly at almost 4.4 million dollars annually over the next two years with this contract. So what we would recommend is to approve each of these contracts for consideration by the city council. Be glad to answer any additional questions that you might have. - Are there additional questions? Yes, go ahead, Mr. Taylor. - Not so much a question. I just wanna say I think this is a really good way of managing our asset, of getting the best value to the landfill for Denton, and also encouraging regional diversion and recycling. And I think 10% is a little low, but it's a great starting point. And like you said, we have a two-year contract. And as we build out our programs into regional programs, then these smaller haulers in the county that are coming from the Provinces and other like Wise County, rural counties, this gives them an opportunity to build those programs as well. And with that, I think I would move for, are we moving one or all three? - We need to take them individually, right, Ms. Marcella? - I will move item A for approval. - Item B with frontier waste solutions is the first one. - I'm sorry, item B with frontier waste solutions for approval. - Do we have a second? - Second. - Larry. Oh, okay. So it's Mr. Jumper gets the second. All in favor say aye. - Aye. - That one carries. The next one is PUB 22120 with rhino removal LLC. Do we have a motion to approve Mr. Rybeck motion? Mr. Beck seconded. All in favor say aye. - Aye. - And the last one is PUB 22121 with waste connections Lone Star Inc. Do we have a motion? Mr. Jumper, Mr. Cheek seconds. All in favor say aye. - Aye. - Thank you. - Thank you very much. - The next item is to formalize a return on investment payment with the city utility funds. - Good morning, Chair, PEB members, Nick Vincent, Assistant Director of Finance. Let me get this pulled up really quick. My hands to work, they're cold this morning. It's pretty cold in here. So yeah, this is to formalize the return on investment payment for water, wastewater, and electric to the general fund. Let me share this. So we'll read the first bullet point. We really already talked about that. But this ordinance will formalize the return on investment payment that you saw during the proposed budgets for water, wastewater, and electric to the general fund. Electric's ROI is currently 6%, as discussed to the Public Utility Board during those presentations. Water's 3.5%, wastewater's 3.5%. Just really quick one to show you the amount that each of these utilities budget and return on investment. So this is percentage of gross revenue with some exclusions. Electric currently pays 19.4 million to the general fund. Water pays 1.5, and then wastewater pays a million. And that is it. Very short and sweet. - Questions. - No, Mr. Cheek, the 6% was increased from 3.5% to 6% in April 2020. So during the COVID pandemic. - That's always a tough balancing act between, you know, what do you charge for your rate of return and investment? It's difficult. But that was increased here in COVID. All right, do we have a motion to approve if there are no other questions? Mr. Beck is moving approval. Do we have a second? Mr. Cheek seconds, all in favor say aye. - Aye. - Opposed? - Abstaining. - Abstaining, Mr. Rybeck is abstaining. Okay. Next item is consider recommending the adoption of an ordinance through the lower Colorado River authority contract, number 5343. For $16 million. - I'm gonna try to go as fast as Nick did. Just kidding. My name is Randy Key. I'm an electric engineering supervisor at DME. Let's see here. Okay, this is for the LCRA contract, lower Colorado River authority. This is a co-op contract. Okay, this contract intends to supply low usage, one time buy and specialty items not covered by any current city agreements. The city will also be able to use this contract to purchase a variety of electric items, such as wire, cable, hardware, connector, pretty much any electric utility item. Right here, went over some of the categories and estimations that we have for wire, two million cable, two million components, eight million, which is kind of all-encompassing, hardware, four million, and for three years for a total of $16 million. Why we need the extra purchasing power. The purchase of these supplies is necessary so that DME can construct, operate, maintain, overhead, underground electric utilities, provide electric service to new and existing customers. Items are purchased as needed by the warehouse as well as DME. We can kind of use this contract as an emergency once. What we have seen in the past year with price increases is tremendous, which means that our current contracts, they're being used up way faster than we ever anticipated, and that's what this contract is mainly for. And for the one-time buys and the specialty items that we don't necessarily have on contract. - Are we having supply chain issues with a lot of these components also? - Yes. - Okay, all right. - Very much so. For instance, transformers that were about 12-week weight were almost at two years. - Oh, no. - And that goes, it's industry-wide. It's not just transformers. It's our PVC, it's pretty much everything, PVC pedestals, wire, cable, it's a lot. - Mr. Beck, go ahead. - Thank you. When you say one-time buy now, are you talking about this is in place for this fiscal year, or it's kind of an ongoing thing, but when we do do it, we only do it one time? - It's gonna be ongoing. It depends on the actual project. We do have a few fairly large projects that could encompass some one-time buys. So this is not something we're gonna review every year. This is to kind of approve it, and it'll be kind of an ongoing, as needed. - I believe it's a three-year. - Mr. Beck, this is a three-year contract. - Okay. - With that $16 million authorization, we're only gonna use it if we need it. And so if we don't need it, it expires in three years. We'll come back, and we renew it if we need to. - Okay. - I will tell you, we certainly don't wanna create any kind of panic, right, with these long lead times. So something that we're doing internally, both at DME and in conjunction with our centralized warehouse, is trying to identify the amount of inventory that we need to serve our current existing customers. And so the plan would then be that any lead times, once we've exhausted some of that excess inventory, is to begin to push that out to new development, if we need to. Again, that's our current plan. That's what we're planning for. But we wanna make sure that we preserve our existing inventory for our existing customers, and that they don't experience any outages as a result of any long lead times. - Good, thank you. - And this is just really allowing us to leverage some opportunities with Lower Colorado. - Absolutely, this is just an additional contract that we'll have in place in case we need it. - Yeah. - True. - And it saves us in the bidding process. Saves us time in the bidding process. - Absolutely. - Yes. - I just wanted to find out that you have some numbers there. So obviously you made some projections about your requirement as you see them going forward. Is that reasonably correct for me to assume? - You're saying about the numbers for lead times, or numbers for price increases? - The dollar amounts in total over the period. - For wire, cable. - Oh, for the wire and the cable. That was just, that's based upon, it's really based upon just the upcoming projects, and what could, it's a complete estimation. So what I do have is numbers for the lead times and price increases of the equipment. And so, yes sir. - Okay, I don't know if that answered my question, but I'll take it. - Well, so if you're asking about your question, you're asking for what we're gonna spend the 16 million on? Is that, was that your question? - You had some specific dollar amounts, and I'm presuming they were based on something, and you're based on projections of things you expect to need over the next two years. - Yeah, Mr. Ryback, the reason for the dollar amount is really attributable to the price increases that we're seeing. For some of our normal distribution transformers, we're seeing pricing increases up to 250%, right? And so again, so the contracts that Randy has referenced, our existing contracts, the dollar values of those contracts, we're expending those dollars a lot quicker. - Oh, that part I got, yes, I was clear about that. I was just curious what these dollars were tied to, and if you are projecting A, replacing equipment you have on hand, or B, new projects that you see coming down the road that will require equipment. - It's really the new projects that are coming online, and they're already in the pipeline. - All right, so do you have an existing inventory of some of these basic, constantly reused products like cable, transformers, et cetera? - Yes, absolutely. - Okay, thank you. - Other questions? Oh, go ahead, Mr. Taylor. - Thank you. So when we talk about projects, are these capital projects, or are these kind of O&M, like updating existing distribution? - Majority capital. I mean, there is maintenance projects as well, but majority capital. - And so in this case, we might have a new substation, $20 million project, it was approved a year ago, it's three years construction. Copper prices are high. - Yes, sir. - And so a million of this is gonna go to increased material costs for that project? - It would just depend, depend on the contracts and how much we have in stock. So this is mainly for what I would, okay. - I'm sorry, Jerry Filler, engineering manager for DME. The substation project that I think you're referring to, it's under its own contract and the contractor's required to provide all the materials. So the money that we have for this contract will not be going to that substation. This is mainly for distribution projects, mostly capital, some maintenance functions that we have come up and it's above and beyond what we're already doing, as Mr. Puente pointed out. We have tried to identify a standard level of materials to handle the customers that we have now. And so things happen, storms come through, et cetera, et cetera. So this allows us to go buy additional materials if we need to. Doesn't mean that we're still not gonna come back later and come in front of you guys to get contracts for cable, wire, transformers. Gonna see a big one for transformers here in a couple of weeks, probably. But this one is just basically a help all to make sure that we keep everything under control that we have. - Okay, so this would not be used for kind of the large capital projects that have their own contracts. This would be used for smaller or kind of O&M type work? - Substations are typically under a separate contract. So those are the big ones. - Substations are so big that the contractor provides everything. - Pretty much, yeah. - Maybe some smaller stuff you might have. We might have a million dollar project on upgrading something. - Yeah, real widenings. That would be a distribution project and if we needed materials and we need to use this contract, then this would make this contract available to us. - Okay, and then I was curious, electric components, I mean, is this only distributed or almost only distribution? - Distribution, yes, sir. - And so wires, poles, transformers? - Splicers, connections, it's all encompassing. - Okay, but like what you see driving down a residential neighborhood? - Yes, sir. - You know, City Street, okay, thank you. - Did I see another question on this side? No, no, any other questions? All right, do we have a motion to approve the contract with Lower Colorado River Authority contract number 5343? Oh, Mr. Rybeka moved and Mr. Taylor seconded. All in favor say aye. - Aye. - Aye. - Carries, thank you. - Thank you very much. - Management reports. - So Madam Chair and members of the board, so for your future items on your agenda, we have a water rights modernization and one water contract is coming to you on the 26th. And then we did push back the Greensense Incentives Program out to October 24th. I will tell you, we did go to the sustainability committee, I did forward to you the various presentations, there's also some additional documentation. There was a number of questions that came up here in that committee and so we've been asked to come back to the committee at the end of September. We'll be doing that, working through that process, getting their recommendation. Once we have that, we will bring all that to you for discussion and then ultimately we'll go back to the council probably sometime in November at this point. You know, considering where we are in the fiscal year, what I've told the committee, I'll tell you is that really there's no rush at this point to make any changes. We have plenty of time and so that's why we're kind of tapping the brakes a little bit, making sure that we answer everyone's questions and that we get the right information out there to ultimately get a good solid recommendation from both groups before we go to the council. And then on the new business action matrix, obviously those two items are items that we've included in that presentation and discussion. And so we hope to be able to get that wrapped up when we come to you as well and then clean that up. So I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have on any of that, but that concludes the information I have for you today. - Questions? - One. - Yeah, go ahead. - Thank you, Chair. So I reviewed the Greensense presentation to the sustainability in the sustainability agenda and I couldn't find reference to savings from decreased average peak distribution load. And I've also separately been reading about Austin Energy's reforms to their solar incentives and their solar electric rate, their buyback rate. And I was wondering when we get that presentation, if we could see distribution level O&M and capital savings from having generation on the distribution lines. And then also a comparison of something like Austin where their value of solar is something like 9.8 cents. Just to compare, 'cause in the presentation, it seemed to be just talking about this kind of 2 cents, $20 a megawatt offset wholesale purchase. But I would like to compare the full cost all the way from not just the wholesale power, but the transmission, distribution, capital savings, extended life of O&M and lower O&M on distribution equipment. - I have a question too. - Go ahead, Larry. - Good, good start there. I too watched the presentation and I didn't see an answer that explained, said that we pay, that DME pays PV homes, businesses, three times the rate when the energy they produce back into the system, then y'all pay aircott. And I, why is that, how does that happen? - Yeah, I guess I'm not following the, that we pay aircott. I think, I think, yeah, I think we'll-- - It was three times higher the rate than we were paying somebody. - So the average, so the average cost from buying electricity from the grid is about $18, $20 a megawatt hour, right? So that's about a 1.8 cents, a two cents type of average on a per kilowatt basis, but yet offered PV when we're paying them is 10 cents. So we're 10 cents on a per kilowatt basis. And that's kind of the comparison that we've made. Again, I think the committees, it certainly has asked a number of questions, certainly along those lines, and we're compiling responses for that. Also, there was an additional ISR that wasn't provided to you, that was provided to the committee that we'll get to that also explains some of the issues that are going on, the impacts on the overall load, what it does to the transmission cost of service and the force CP impacts. And so all of that will be coming to you. And so, but I think that's what you're referencing is how that compares to what we're actually buying power from the market. There's a huge disparity between the two, along with the fact that when you're net zero billing a customer, you're not recovering any of your fixed charges to serve that customer when their power is not being produced, you know, usually in the evenings, at night, and in the mornings as well. - All right, I'm hoping when we do bring this up, that can be something we can look at, that can be adjusted, 'cause I got skin in the game, and I don't mind giving you back my power, 'cause I've got one of those systems that's probably too big, but I know you're trying to cover your fixed costs, and if we can just be credited with what we use and then give back to y'all, I don't know why we can't do that, but something to consider when we bring that up. Thank you. - Other questions? Concluding items, does a board member wish to have any items added to a future agenda, or have any further comments to make to the public? Okay, seeing none, it's 9.40, and we're adjourned.