May 16, 2022 Zoning Board of Adjustment on 2022-05-16 5:30 PM (Special Called Meeting - 1 of 2)

- Thank you everyone. Are we ready to begin? Okay, I don't need this. Okay, so, good evening everyone. My name is Amber Brighill. I'm the chair of the zoning board of adjustments. There's a lot of reading because what we have in front of us is a really big deal. So I'm just gonna read. So, actually, let me call this meeting to order. Actually, at 534 we do have a quorum present and the date is May 16th, 2022. I'm just gonna review the format for the benefit of everyone in attendance. The board consists of seven regular members and three alternates. The members of the zoning board of adjustment are residents of the city of Denton and we serve voluntarily and have been appointed to our position by city council. It takes six votes to reverse or modify any determination of an administrative official on appeal. Anyone wishing to participate may submit a white card to indicate their position on an item. People may also make virtual comments using the e-comment module made available when the agenda was posted online. Similar to when someone submits a white card to indicate their position on an item, the e-comments will be sent directly to the members of ZVA and recorded by the secretary. Comments may be submitted up until the start of the meeting at which time they will be able to make a comment to post. People wishing to speak may submit a blue card. All speakers are to state their name and address for the record in consideration of our other speakers. Please keep your comments brief and only provide information relevant to our agenda items. After the hearing and board discussion, a motion will be obtained and we will now commence with our regularly scheduled agenda. We do have a quorum present. I already called the meeting in order, so the first item is a pledge to the U.S. and Texas allies. Please rise with your aides. - I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. - Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one and indivisible. - Thank you. The next item is considering the approval of the minutes from February 28th. Everyone's got a copy of the minutes. Are there any corrections, additions, additions to be made? - I need a correction in my last name spelling. It has a C in it, it's F-I-S-C-H-E-R. These are a couple of things, this is it. - Thank you. It was important, thank you. Any other corrections, or additions, or comments? Okay, I would entertain a motion. So, Ms. Lane and Mr. Njaku, you second? All right, we've got a first and a second. Any discussion? All those in favor of approving the minutes, just raise your hand. Any, anyone voting against? Any abstentions? Motion passes, the minutes are approved. Okay. Oh, and the next item is election of the chair and the vice chair for the zoning board of adjustment. We've taken nominations, so if anyone would like to nominate the chair, I'll be happy to hear that now. - Adam's chair. - Oh, sorry. - I'll make a nomination of Amber Brickell. I'll second that. - Thank you. Thank you. Any other nominations for chair? Okay, we've got a first from Ms. Linus and a second from Mr. Njaku. All those in favor, raise your hand. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Thank you, I'm happy to serve as your chair again. We're gonna rinse and repeat for the vice chair. Are there nominations from the floor for vice chair? - I nominate Jennifer Lane. - Okay, we've got a second. - Thank you very much. - Yeah, any other nominations? Okay, all those in favor? Any opposed? Any abstained? Okay, great, thank you. That was easy, okay, I love voting. Item 3A is really the big thing why we're here. So we're gonna hold a public hearing and consider an appeal of an administrative decision regarding the interpretation of the definition of an automated repair shop minor for a property located at 709 South Elm. The appellant is Jeff Stark, representing the owner of John Lither's. Yep, thank you. So if you're planning on speaking today, we have to swear you in. And that includes city staff too. So if you're planning on speaking today, we could just swear you all in all at the same time, if that's cool. So if you could stand and raise your right hand. Thank you, all right. Under penalty of perjury to all y'all, swear to affirm that any testimony or information you provide or any statement you make before this board is complete, true, and correct to the best of your knowledge and ability. If so, please answer I do. - I do. - Great, thank you. Okay, so lots more reading 'cause this is a big deal and I wanna make sure we all understand what's happening. So the matter before the board is whether to affirm, reverse, and hold or impart or amend or modify a decision or interpretation made by the administrative official. Pursuant to DDC section 2.8.6, the director shall be responsible for all interpretations related to whether an unspecified use falls or new use classification, use category, or use type allowed in a zoning district. Since the proposed use, which in this case is installation of window tinting, vehicle wraps, and other aftermarket vehicle modifications is not listed in the table of allowed uses, the director made an interpretation using the standards in DDC section 2.8.6, D.2, which requires that interpretations be based on the standards in the DDC section 9.1 and the following considerations. There's a lot, okay. Do I have to read all of these? Should I read all of these? - They're in the presentation. - Great, okay, fantastic. That saves me some time. Okay, so this is how it's gonna go. So I open the hearing. We're gonna hear from city staff. We're gonna hear from the applicant. We're gonna hear from the public. We can't make a decision in this meeting. I've gotta close the meeting and then open the same meeting, the next meeting, in the same space. So we're gonna take care of this tonight, but we'll have to do our deliberations and our voting in round two. I think that's it. Do I have to read anything more than this? I think we're good. Okay, so I'm calling the public hearing to order at 5.41. I will stop reading, and I think we'll call city staff and read Julie Vaziria. Thank you. Good evening, I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Desmond. We're heading this way. (mumbles) (doorbell rings) Okay. Good evening, I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner. This is administrative appeal 22-0002, tent roll. So some background before we get into the request. The subject property is located at 709 South Elm. It's about .26 acres, and it's in a mixed use neighborhood zoning district. How this came to be and how we got here was it started with a building permit. The applicant submitted for a building permit for a tenant finish out. As part of that review, it was determined that the use was automotive repair shop minor, which requires a specific use permit in the zoning district. This is based upon, as you mentioned, subsection 2.8.6, and that's interpretations in the debt and development code, that the director shall be responsible for all interpretations, and that includes whether an unspecified use, where that falls within our use tables. Use tables can't be broad enough to include every single possible use, so those interpretations sometimes have to be made. So before we get into the specific request or the determination, wanna talk about how we arrived at that interpretation. So I would like to mention at this point that the applicant did feel that their use was more consistent with general retail, and so that's why we are here today. So the first criteria for that formal interpretation is the clear and plain meaning of the provisions wording, as defined by the meaning and significance, given specific terms used in the provision as established in subchapter nine, definitions, and by the common and accepted usage of that term. So the definition for automotive repair shop minor is an establishment primarily engaged in providing minor vehicle repair services, and that includes a list such as lubrication, oil and tire changes, and tune-ups, brake repair, tire replacement, and detailing and polishing. Major repairs, such as vehicle, body, work, or pain, those are a different classification. That goes to major. So when we looked at that, first we looked at that at subchapter nine in the development code, and as part of that, it talks about how we're supposed to read those definitions. And one of those is the list of examples that are contained within a definition. It's not an exhaustive list. That it is meant to illustrate what types of activities would be associated with that use. And in particular, we looked at that portion that is underlined in that definition. And then also that words and phrases should be construed according to the common and approved language, usage of the language. So we look at just that common usage of the word repair. We also talked to the property owner as part of this and kind of talked to them about what activities they would be doing on site. And we were provided further clarification, and that included sales and installation of window tinting, protective films and coatings, vehicle wraps and vehicle graphics, audio and video systems, and also mobile electronics and security systems. We also looked at their website. That can sometimes be instructivistic, kinds of things that they do on site. So we looked at what they do in Grapevine, and they also include auto detailing. So we looked a little closer at that definition, including that detailing and polishing. So there was concern about that, and it really, staff believes it speaks to that work performed on the exterior vehicle is included within that use. So that use, that definition was written broadly enough so that that detailing, that exterior work would include, or exterior work is included in that definition. So things like the window tinting and the vehicle wrap, that really does speak to that minor repair, or the automotive repair shop minor. It's really consistent with that definition. And also, in looking at their activities on site, the aftermarket installation requires alteration of the automobile's mechanical, electric system, which is also consistent with repair work. So they're really doing work not only on the exterior, which is included in that definition, but also in the interiors. We looked at it from both of those angles. The second criteria is the intended purpose of the provision, as indicated by the purpose statements, its context and consistency with the surrounding and related provisions, and any legislative history to its adoption. So chapter three of the Denton Development Code provides a purpose statement for the zoning district. And it's to support compatibility between higher intensity mixed use areas and adjacent residential and commercial areas. And paying particular attention to the area in bold, this district contributes to a vibrant environment for pedestrians and bicyclists through a variety of site design requirements, and includes varying densities of residential, neighborhoods, suburban retail, restaurants, commercial, and office uses. So when we look at that definition, it's not just a strict automotive zoning designation. We do have some zoning districts which are more closely aligned with automotive type uses, our highway corridor and our suburban corridor. Where a mixed use neighborhood is intended for more walkable districts, and also including pedestrians and bicyclists. And so for that reason, the MN district limits the automotive uses within that district, or either prohibits it or limits it. So for example, automotive fuel sales or automotive repair shop minor, when there's a specific use permit that's required within the Denton Development Code, what that means is the use may be appropriate in this area, but it requires a little more scrutiny. Things like design requirements, we wanna see a little more detail looked at that site before it could be approved, and it requires approval by the city council. And in this instance, because this is more of a pedestrian-oriented, but can't serve vehicles, that SUP is required. And so that was the information that we gave the applicant. It's intended to reduce any impacts related to those vehicle or automotive related uses. Number three, the intent to give every provision meaning. The intent of the DDC is to provide clear meaning to all terms, however, when there is not a clear meaning, that's when we bring in that interpretation procedure like we went through with this project. And then the general purposes served by this DDC. The DDC does give purpose statements for the entire DDC in SUP chapter one, and one of those is to encourage the appropriate use of land, buildings, and structures. In this instance, it's not that automotive uses aren't necessarily appropriate within the MN district, but once again, it needs that specific use permit, little more scrutiny, just take a little harder look at any of these uses. And then finally, consistency with the comprehensive plan. The interpretation is consistent with the description of the future land use designations, which support the mixed use neighborhood district. In this instance, the subject property is the area in red, and that's our downtown district, and that really comes from that square. It radiates out from the square. And what we wanna do is make sure that the development is sensitive to our downtown area. Mixed use neighborhood is also one of those zoning districts, or the future land use designations, which is consistent with the zoning district. And once again, it's intended for more walkable districts. And automotive uses are, of course, potentially okay for that area, but once again, needs a little additional scrutiny. And then also, there's another portion of the debt development code, which looks at use determinations, and that's subchapter five. And within subchapter five, the code requires that the director shall consider the potential impacts of the proposed use, including the nature of the use, and whether it includes welling, sales, processing, storage, operations, employment characteristics, nuisances, requirements for public utilities, and transportation requirements. Those are the things we should be looking at, or that the director should be looking at when a determination is made. In this instance, we looked at the proposed use. We thought about how it functions, given the types of activities on site, and our conversations with the applicant. So a car for this particular use would enter the site, would pull into a bay. The customer would leave their car with the facility, and then wait while their window tinting is being performed, or their vehicle wraps, so they would wait on site, and then they would drive away once their service is complete. So in looking at how that functions, we're like, that really sounds kind of like an oil change place, or a tire change, more consistent with that definition. We kind of looked at that in terms of, okay, well, how does that function based upon a general retail, or how we typically conceive of a general retail? Now, when we think of general retail, we think it's a place you either drive to or walk to. If you drive, you typically park your car in a parking lot, and then you get out of your car, and you walk to the sales floor, either inside or outside, make your purchase, and then leave with that purchase. So while they still are selling something, they do function differently, and they do have different potential impacts. And one of the potential impacts for the subject use would be visual impacts related to bay doors, because a car is having to drive in. So think of oil change places, and kind of physically how they look, and the vehicular maneuvering on site. Making sure that cars can move safely outside, and enter the site, and exit the site safely. And because of that, because of the functioning of the site, the director is determined that the use that is more appropriate is that automotive repair shop minor. Requiring that specific use permit to look at those potential impacts. So now we get to kind of that, you know, what next slide? So this is an administrative appeal, so I've gone through kind of staff's reasoning as to how we got to that automotive repair minor. It really is related to that definition, the clear meaning of that definition. How this site operates, and what the intent is of that zoning district. So there is criteria for approval in the Dent development code. It's in sub-chapter two. There are two criteria for approval, and those are in your backup as well. The facts stated in the application, as presented by the appellant and the director, and the requirements and the intent of the applicable standards from the Dent development code, compared to the written decision that is being appealed. So based upon that, it is a two-step process, as your chair mentioned. You have the public hearing, and that's right now. And then once that's finished, that would be closed, and then it would go to a decision right after. So that's all I have. I'll be happy to answer any questions. And the applicant is here to also make a presentation as well. - Any questions for city staff? I have a question. - Sure. - So I remember when I served on P&Z, we saw SCP applications all the time. So if this appeal is denied, where they're not able to get the six votes required, would the next step then be for them to consider going to P&Z, and then P&Z would pass it on to city council? Is that the kind of the chain of command? - That is correct. - Okay, and P&Z, to be clear, so we're looking at this with our ZBA hats on, like there's not a whole lot of flexibility, but P&Z has more flexibility in granting these types of requests. - You're exactly correct. And that's actually something we talked about in staff. So things like P&Z can look at the request, and they have different criteria for approval in the debt development code as to whether they would approve or recommend denial, or add conditions to the use. So there could be conditions added to the use as part of the SUP to ensure compatibility with the surrounding area. - Thank you. - And that part's kind of out of our hands though, right? - Yeah, 'cause that would be planning and zoning. That would be kind of more their purview, so, yeah. - I have a question. - Oh, you'll have a moment to speak. - I can ask her a question. - I think during the public hearing, I'm sorry, when he's invited up to speak, then he can ask questions that staff can answer later. - Correct. - Yeah. So I'll call you up during the, when it's your turn, and you can ask questions and then the staff can answer them for you. - Okay, thank you. - Yeah, yeah. So hold on to that, yeah. Anything else? Okay. Thank you, Julie. I'm gonna open up the applicant's presentation table. All right, if the applicant is here, would you like to approach the podium and... - Sure. - Thank you. And is there a time limit for the applicant to speak? - I think that's up to your discretion. I think that approximately equal time. - All right. - I'll talk as fast as I can across. - Yeah, no worries. No, it's fine. - That's great. I've got some stuff on the bottom already. - How about that? And if you could just state your name and your title. - My name is Jeff Stark. I am the Chief Operating Officer of Tint World and Franchise Company. I am here out of Boca Raton, Florida. I flew up today to attend this meeting. And thank you guys all for joining. I appreciate your time. Julie, thank you for your diligence on this. So I came today because I wanted to address the, I wanted to have the chance to address this in an appeal based on the stores that we do currently have, including the ones that we have here in Texas. And where they're located, what zoning and zoning districts they are located in, and the versatility that we have as a franchise company. Okay. To address some of the things that Julie had stated, one of which stood out a lot is categorizing Tint World as automotive repair minor is absolutely an incorrect classification. If there was seven items addressed in there, in that code, being oil changes, tire repairs, and replacement, engine repair, and certain things like that. And there was one item, and one item only, that we fell under, which brought us here today, which was detailing and polishing. What was explained to staff when Julie and I had a conversation back and forth is as a franchise company, and you guys looked at, you looked at a web page from one of our stores, I believe it was our Grapevine Texas store. And within that page, you saw services on there, such as Auto Detail. With a franchise company, when you log on to Tint World's website, okay, Tint World's website is a general website. And from there, as a consumer, you go to your individual store page located in your area that you were looking to retain services, okay. Our franchise allows for certain services to be done, and certain services to not be done, okay. Not all of our stores have to do detailing and polishing, which is the one area that falls under those seven, those seven different things that classify us as automotive repair minor in staff's opinion, okay. Throughout the country, we have about 100 locations right now currently open. We've got 7,400 development, okay. Out of the 100 locations that we have open, we have stores open in almost every zoning district you could think of. We are in planned development, we are in commercial one, commercial two, commercial three. We are also in mixed use. We are in standalone buildings, we're in automotive style buildings. We are in retail strip centers. We are in flex space. We have some stores that are located in industrial space. We are very versatile and all over the map. And I think one of the things that's important for me to point out for you guys, out of the 100 locations that we currently have open today, 13% of those are in your traditional automotive spaces, okay. Out of the other 85 plus percent of the locations that are open today, 12% of those 85 locations have needed an SUP to get approved. The balance of those locations have all been approved in the district, in the zoning that they are, with no modifications necessary, okay. The majority of the time that we do have to get an SUP when that does occur, it's because we're going into a retail strip center like that Grapevine store that you were showed, okay, where it was just a full regular retail strip center. We share that center with a True Dental. We share that center with a, I believe it's a Jersey Mike's Subplace, and a couple other things. And there was no overhead doors in the back of the space that for us to be able to pull vehicles inside to do some of the services that we do. And in those type of areas, it's typically where we need to have an SUP. We very recently converted a family video out in Rowlett, which is an area I'm sure you guys are all familiar with. And for that, we needed to get an SUP. We were converting a family video, you know. I mean, it was a considerable deal, and it was one of those areas that we had to get it. But in most, we do not. With that being said, what I would like to do, I do have, and I know that I see that it's onto this, but I would, has anybody seen the video that we prepared a two minute video just showing a depiction of our store? Has anybody seen that? - It was not. - Would you guys mind if I played that for you? - That's fine, yeah. - Okay. (clears throat) Let's see here. (upbeat music) This video is just showing you some of our stores, what they look like, okay, and what they consist of. We are not your stereotypical oil change looking location. We do have a few, like I said, that are automotive spaces, but the majority are not, okay. And when you look at our locations, our locations are a lot like, you know, a little bit different, but a lot like in the retail setting, like you like your apps. They're very high end. They're very technologically advanced. They're clean, they're neat. They have beautiful restrooms. They've got fantastic waiting areas for customers and those who do choose to wait. We also have retail products, including apparel, that we do sell on the retail floor, okay. And one of the things also that you guys were told, as well, from staff, is that we're not your stereotypical retail store where you walk in and purchase products that will meet with it. And that is not necessarily the case. Many of our customers come in, just like they would into a Best Buy, and they will purchase something right off the shelf and take it home, whether it be for a Christmas, present, or birthday gift, or whatever the case may be. Whether they choose to come back to us and have that product installed or not is another question. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Yes, we do offer services. We offer services that we do install here in the store. We do not need to do detailing and polishing like is the one and only item. Within automotive minor, based on your guys' categories, window tint and things like that that are applied, there is nothing mechanical about it. We do not work on internal engines. We don't open the hoods of people's cars. That is not the kind of work that we perform. What we perform is not a lot different than if you went to a, if you had a business cleaning company, a delivery company, and you had a commercial van and you took to the fast signs because you wanted to get some sort of logos or lettering or anything like that put on the outside windows. That would be allowed in almost any district. It's no different. What we do is no different. It's absolutely no different. For all those reasons, and then some, is why we do feel like we should not have to, we feel like we should not have to get an SUV for this, we don't feel as if the determination was an accurate depiction of our business. And quite frankly, what I've been told over and over again is how much that the city of Denton is looking to revitalize this particular area and turn it into something much nicer, much higher end to bring in more retail type of business. We're exactly the kind of business that you would want in that market in order to bring those customers in, okay? We bring traffic, the traffic that we bring to our stores is a lot of it is your high-end customers, your customers that drive the Mercedes, the Ferraris, the McLarens, the Bentleys, they're the ones that are getting some of this work done to their vehicles. And our type of business is a kind of business that will bring that traffic to that area. If you want to start that process, my understanding is that it's been in process since 2019, we'd be a great start in the right direction, okay? So I'm just gonna run through this with you real quick. This is just a, I mean, this is probably nothing that you haven't already seen. It was in the letter that we provided for the appeal of the decision. Tells you a little bit about Tim World. We started in 1982 with six company locations, been in franchising since 2007. We are the now today, the industry leading automotive franchise opportunity with over 100 locations. Our centers typically range between four and 6,000 square feet of interior AC space, climate control space. (clears throat) Most of our service are completed within one to two hours. So they can wait, they can drop their vehicle off, they can return. We have the luxury of usually getting larger facilities, so when the vehicles are done, we will leave them inside till the customer picks it up as to not be a parking burden. One of the other things that was pointed out by Julie was when, I believe there was a concern wrapped around the aesthetics of having overhead doors that looking inward, what that looks like from the outside. In this particular location, as is most of our locations that are retail, the bay door is in the back. It's not visible from anybody. It's not visible from the street. It poses no threat to traffic. You know, I haven't, like I told you, I live in Florida. I don't live here, but I have been to this location a couple times. My understanding from what I can see there, I don't even believe there's sidewalks there, so I don't think that pedestrian traffic and bicycle traffic is really gonna be an issue, 'cause I don't even believe there's a sidewalk to walk on over there. Am I correct about that? Right. So I don't think that would even be something that would be relevant to this. We have, our typical store has roughly about four employees. You can see here that these are these services that you're looking at on the screen right now. These are what we would consider our core services. And again, everything for us is adjustable based on the location. Every different municipality that we deal with has different criteria and different things they allow. For example, like she mentioned detailing with our grapevine location, that is a location that does it. The colony does it, Rowlett does not. Ben Brook, we have one in Ben Brook that's recently opened in Fort Worth. They are allowed to do it. But we have that versatility to be able to allow it or not allow it based on what we are, based on what the allowable uses are at that location. 40 plus years of success. We currently have over 100 stores open. We've got 50 plus that are gonna open this year. We're targeted for 300 locations nationwide by the end of 2025. We're operating currently in 35 states. We're operating in Canada, Saudi Arabia, and Dubai. This is the building, right here, a picture of the building, which I also think is important. This building is already very aesthetically pleasing on the outside. This is what the building would look like with, some of it would look like with our signage on it, would fit right in with the community. We have a very in-depth center design process as I'm sure that has been presented with our architectural plans that we submitted for the interior space build out and the video that you guys just watched. Awards of, you know, some different things that, you know, just some pictures of different buildings. You guys have already seen that on the video. You can see that, you know, looking at some of these pictures, like this is some of the vehicles that we, you know, that we bring, the kind of customers that we bring to our locations. The work that we do is extremely high end. We are not your stereotypical automotive repair shop, not in any way whatsoever, as we don't do any automotive repair work at all. We do have, like I mentioned before, we have 12 or 13 locations across the country that are in your stereotypical automotive repair shops and we have the option to add on auto repair for those locations where it's possible. But by no means is it a mandatory service anywhere within our franchise. You can see here, again, just some pictures of what our showrooms look like, very high end. It's not really, it's on a smaller scale. It's not a lot different from what you would see at a normal Best Buy. You're able to go in, purchase products, and even in Best Buy, they do have car installation centers inside their Best Buys. You can pick, you can choose to pick the product up in LEED. You can choose to have it installed there at the Best Buy. We are not really any different than that. Here's some more pictures of our interior of our spaces. A lot of it's what you've already seen. This is just some of our awards. We're ranked number one in category 2021. Top global franchise in 2021. We've been reviewed every year by our own franchise system and we get top awards by our own franchise system for how our franchise is built and how it operates. This is what your typical grand opening would look like. I got a couple more pictures of our space. I thought this was actually important. Julie had mentioned Grapevine. This is a letter that we obtained a while ago back from a neighbor that shared the building with our 10 World in Grapevine. And basically what this says is that they've been next to us for quite some time. They've never been disrupted by any of our services. We're never any excessive noise or disturbance of any kind. We run a very clean operation. We don't create any excessive trash in the parking lot or dumpster area. We maintain our space very, very nicely as you can see from the photos and the video that you guys just watched. We are always very respectful to any of the patrons in the area. We maintain a high level of professionalism and overall they enjoy sharing the space with us. It's also fun for them and interesting to see the exciting vehicles that we have at our shop all the time. So I thought that was important to show and it happened to be that, and this is our corporate staff. I don't know if that doesn't want to get their photo. - They all look very nice. - Anyway, so that's my presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have if you have any. - Questions for the applicant? - I do actually. - Go ahead, sure. - So I was just, and there's no question you have a very successful company that you're representing. It looks awesome. The buildings look awesome. - Thank you. - But I wanted to know, because it's my understanding that we're making a decision based on some very technical definitions that don't necessarily account for how successful a company is. - Agreed. - I'm wondering if you had to do the specific use permit, what is the concern with that? - In all honesty, it's not that it's a huge concern rather than the fact that I just, based on this building and where this is located currently, what is around it and what you guys are going for in this revitalization in this area, I think that we fit in very well without getting a special use permit. There is obviously some concern wrapped around the cost of an SUP for this particular area. The cost here for a special use permit is more than nine times what it is anywhere else in the country that I've gotten an SUP anywhere. A typical SUP process cost me somewhere between six and $1,200 and here it is over 8,000 in the city of Denver. My franchisee did spend some time on the phone with somebody from staff, and I don't know who that was, and that person basically told my franchisee that you can go ahead and apply for the SUP but you're probably not gonna get it. I am not a big gambling man, but I will tell you that I don't really have a problem gambling on six or $1,200 but when you're talking about $8,500 on something that we feel, based on the decision, should have been approved from the get-go is a very big gamble when you have people from that department already telling you that you're not gonna get approved if you do it. Quite frankly, we've got a lot of time and money already invested into this space based on information that we were provided in the upfront before we submitted our plans. And to take a gamble on yet another $8,500, quite frankly, is gonna take a very, very nice pair of business owners who are trying to do something for themselves, for their future, and it's gonna be a very immense financial burden. It's also gonna be a burden for Mr. Weathered over there who owns this property and it's been vacant for some time, and an SEP process takes a little while. So there's a couple of issues wrapped around it. Not that we couldn't apply for the SEP, it is possible. It is possible to do, but it's not an area that we really feel that we should have to. That's it. - No, you go ahead. What services were you planning to provide there initially before any of this came up? - We always are told, when we discuss our use with the city, the city usually gives us conditions on what we can and can't do. So we will do, the services that we typically do, our core services is window tinting, paint protection film, vinyl wraps, 12-volt accessories, which is like, if your radio breaks in your car, you come in, you have your radio taken out and replaced, or your speakers taken out and replaced, very quick in and out services. They're usually plug and play. There's not a bunch of immense wiring and disassembling of vehicles going on in our type of business. That's not what we do. That's not what we're here for. There is custom shops out there that do that. There is lots of one-off custom car stereos that they build these massive stereo systems for customers and they're wiring cars for weeks and months on end. That's not the business that we're in. We are in the, we are in what you would call the quick replacement category. Like I was saying, not much different from the Best Buy. Okay, so window tinting, paint protection film, vehicle wraps, car stereo, any kind of, any kind of, you know, coating, you know, film type coating, windshield protection. You know, that's the best services that, those are our core services. That's what we do on a daily basis, you know? And it's also, I think it's also important to, you know, to note that just taking the Dallas market on its own, we have, we have currently five, this is going to be store number six. We have another one opening two, it'll be seven locations. And our stores do an average in this market or do an average of about $1.45 million a year of revenue. You know, and that's, and that generates, it generates a lot of revenue for the, you know, for the city as well, you know? So I also think that's important to whatever extent. - Were you planning on doing the polishing and the-- - Detail. - The detail before this happened? - If it's something that we were allowed to do, sure. But we don't, but it's not, it's not one of our core services. - Okay. - So my question was one, it could be his question. So I'll go to my second one. - According to your information that you presented, you said that at least one or more overhead doors and you had indicated it was going to be in the back rather than a drive-through. - Yes. - Where is it coming into or out of? - It's in the, at the entrance to the, the entrance to the, what you would consider the shop, the quote unquote shop area is in the back of the building. So you would drive around the side of the building to the back, it would enter the vehicle there. The vehicle stays inside parked for an hour or two, whatever it takes for us to do the service. And then it's pulled back out and parked when the customer comes to pick it up. - Okay. I drive south Elm every day. - It's the, it's the old twisted body studio. - Yeah. Now I know exactly which building it is. - Me too. - You drive in and then you try and drive out. - Yes. As we do- - In the same way? - Yeah, as we do with all of our stores. - And you don't go the wrong way on Elm? - The wrong way on Elm? - It's a one-way. - It's a one-way? - It's a one-way, right. And I say that because there is a body shop that is on a one-way street and it's a body shop, but I'm not saying the truth is, that pulls out regularly the wrong way because it's easier to get to their customers. So I'm looking at how you do that. - Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm following that. - Well, it's a, I'm sorry. - Go ahead. You know exactly what I'm talking about. - Well, it's a trend that happens right there. And I want to say it's a little bit more north on the Elm that it happens and they just pull out there all the time. There's been several accidents right there, actually, just like cars being clipped. - Yeah, so is the drive on the right-hand side of that building? - So the drive is on this side of the building. Okay, you drive down that side of the building and then there's a very large area in the back that you would turn into and then you would enter the back of the building back there. You enter the building in there. When the vehicle is done, it would back right back out and it would be pulled out to here for the customer to leave with the vehicle. - And then to go-- - And then they would go, would do whatever the corrector, I mean, I don't remember what the correct direction-- - Yes, it's that way. So they would not be able to, an employee or a customer pull around to the right because there's no traffic coming. So it's only, I'm only going in the parking lot. - No, no. - But first of all, customers do not ever pull their vehicle into the shop themselves. That is not the case, okay? The customer comes in, they park in the designated parking spaces in the front, okay? When they're electing to get services done at the facility, they would come in, they would hand us their, they would fill out a work order, they would hand us their keys. We would take their vehicle and our employees would back out which these parking spaces are angled, okay? They would back out so there's not a way to really back out this way and go the wrong way. Not to mention there's no access to the building that way anyway. So they would pull out from here and they would pull in down the drive to the back of the building. And that would be our employees that would be pulling a customer's vehicle in, not a customer. A customer would never, in any scenario or circumstance, be pulling their own vehicle into our building. - So then the vehicle being worked on, getting whatever it is, goes all the way to the back, it gets finished, your employees or the employee of the franchising would pull it up to the front and then that customer would get in the car and leave. - That's correct. - At that point they've paid, they've done everything, they're waiting there. - That's correct. - No cars that have been worked on are ever pulled to the front and left? - No, not in this scenario. There's limited parking in the front. So the limited parking in the front would be for the incoming consumers and there would be, the cars would be, when they're finished, they either remain inside 'til they're picked up or they will be in the back of the building and then they'll be pulled to the front. From this drive, they will be pulled to the front where the customer can meet, after they've paid their bill, they can meet the employee and take their keys and then they can proceed out into the street. - How many cars can, would, after you redesign it, can fit in the building and how many can sit outside the building in the back, like what's the area back there? - You would be able to fit roughly about four, probably about four cars in the back as far as holding in the back behind the building. But the proposed interior shop space is roughly, I believe, about 35 or 3800 square feet after the renovation is done, something to that effect. We work on, remember we have, if you remember from, you know, from in this presentation, we have roughly four employees. So we might be working on two or three cars at a time. So there's more than enough, there's enough space inside the building for probably anywhere between eight and 10 cars. So as we're working on three, you'll have three or four that'll be sitting in there waiting to be picked up and then we'll pull them out when the customer picks them up. - Is there any odor to your business? - No, no, we use no odorous chemicals. We don't use chemicals at all. You know, window film and paint protection film is applied to soap and water. So it's in a spray bottle of soap and water that gets sprayed on, the film gets put on and sweeps you down. - And I heard you say that detailing isn't a major part. Is that your bread and butter? - It's not even close, no. - So is that something, city staff, that if we, can we put conditions on our approval? I know we could on P and Z. Is this like an all or nothing thing with CVA? - So what you're being asked to assess is whether the use being described is more like general retail or something else or auto repair. If you decide this use is more like auto repair, then that would shunt it into a SUP process. So this really isn't the right form to place conditions on the use, but if you're, in your decision, you wanna make a recommendation to planning and zoning, that could carry forward, but it wouldn't, how would you need to do more research to confirm whether it was like binding? - So we, so to, if I understand you correctly, we are, we are, our task today is to rule on the administrative ruling, whether that was correct or not. - Yes, we're not necessarily here to address whether or not-- - We couldn't put conditions on the approval of, we could say it's retail, and then they could do retail things, or we could say it's light automotive. - Are there any other automotive categories in this one? - Sorry. - Automotive, minor automotive. - That's the issue. - That's the problem. - Automotive, minor, and automotive, major, I guess. - Can I clear that? - I'm sorry. - Yep. - I was gonna say, to address your question, so we have the automotive repair minor, and then we have the automotive repair major. So items that are not classified, and my apologies, Tina Bergen's planning director. So items that, you know, we have the definition that we included in your packet. So we looked at the examples that are defined, related to the use, to help provide the parameters for classifying uses. One of the things that's noted in there is that paint and body work is excluded. So we typically have an automotive repair major category, which then would allow for the more intensive operations, not going to compromise. Do we have a separate paint and body classification in these? - No, that falls under automotive repair major. - Okay, so it falls under the major. So we have the minor and the major, because we recognize that there are a variety of different activities associated with automotive related businesses. Some are much more intensive operations, like repairing a transmission, doing paint and body work, which typically has an odor associated with, because of the paint booth that's generally involved. So those more intensive operations fall into the major category, the lesser intensive operations fall into the minor category. And I know Julie, in part of her presentation, had on her slide, there are some other auto-related type uses, I think Auto-Wash was one. I don't know if it was listed in the staff reddit. We have Auto-Wash, we have Auto-Fuel Sales, which is typically associated with, like your gas station convenience stores, if you will. And then we have the automotive repair shop. So it's, while we have some uses identified, we try to rely upon also definitions of categories, because we recognize that it's difficult to provide a complete exhaustive use of all of the functions and activities that might occur associated with an automotive related business. - To your point, you made some very valid points, and to your point, what you have listed in automotive repair minor, all of those services, every single one of those services are services that are environmentally impactful, okay? Oil changes, tire repairs, any kind of fluid changes, you're correct where it comes to detailing and washing. Most of these have an environmental impact where they require oil water separators and things like that in the ground, and contamination tanks that need to be pumped out or flushed out or cleaned from time to time, because of the nature of those services, which is kind of to my point, we don't require any of that. We don't utilize any of that. There's nothing in our services that would even come close to requiring that, unless we were planning on doing car washing within the space, which I will tell you that out of the 100 locations I have open, I'd be surprised if I have 20 that do that. The majority do not. Detailing is not a big part of our brand. It's just not, it's not, you know, we're tin twirled. You know, we're in the business of automotive film protection. That's the business that we're in. And not only automotive, but we also do residential commercial as well. You know, so it's, that is more of our industry. Detailing can be a part of the store. But, you know, to your point, that's what, you know, everything that you guys have listed under automotive repair minor, it requires, it has all of that environmental impact that our business has not. - So can I ask a follow-up to that? - Sure. - The environmental impact. So when you're putting film on, is there waste associated? Is there something that you're peeling and growing away, or? - It's just a liner that goes in the garbage. It's just, it's regular garbage. It's not-- - So there's some environmental impact, maybe not similar to-- - I mean, not any different than unloading a box and putting packaging peanuts in the garbage. It's the same thing. You know, it's not, I would say, as far as our environmental impact, I'd say absolutely not. There's nothing environmentally impactful with anything that we do. - Yeah, I'm trying to, 'cause I got from the beginning, our job is not really to assess whether you have a great business or a great layout, but really this definition. And I know you said that for the seven services that they list under Automotive Repair Shop Minor, that you don't perform most any of those services, but it says such as, so they're just examples. So I'm just wondering, like, where would you put, where would you put tinting? I guess if you can explain to me why window tint and repair and vehicle wraps are not similar to detailing and polishing. 'Cause it's not, that wasn't an exhaustive list. They were just examples. So what I really need to make my decision is why window tinting, for example, is not like any of these other services. Can you help me with that? - Be a hard question to answer, but I can, I'll kind of give you the best analogy I possibly can, right? - Sure, sure. - You could walk into a retail store that does repairs of iPhones, right? If you crack your screen or break your screen, which is glass, okay, you can have that glass replaced and you can have them put, they will utilize a clear piece of film that they would use to put on top of an iPhone screen. It really is no different. It's a very similar piece of glass. It's the same application. It uses the same product to do. There's no difference. The difference is that we're doing it on a car window and they're doing it on an iPhone screen, or an iPad, or fixing or replacing your computer monitor. It's not a lot different. That's the best analogy I can give you. - So what classification are you wanting? 'Cause I'm kind of confused because you are dealing with automobiles. - I am. But, again, what I'm here for today is to appeal the administrative decision that classified us as automotive repair minor. - Right, and that's what I was gonna say. We can't, pardon the interruption, we're not here to determine what classification he falls in necessarily. We're here to determine the administrative decision, which was that he does fall under an automotive, and what I'm hearing you say is we really fall more under retail because of the nature of your business. - Okay, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. And again, I don't do city code stuff, so I don't know retail or work, you have other classifications. But again, my concern is that it is being labeled as automotive repair minor when we don't do any automotive repair that would really put us there. It's really, we're in that category for lack of the fact that another category doesn't exist. - Well, what about, I'm sorry to cut you off. Is there another retail category that exists? - Again, that's not our determination tonight, right? Like if we were on P&Z, we'd have all this room to work with, but we're very laser-focused on was the administrative ruling correct or not. So, go ahead. - So, do you know the percentage rate of, let's say somebody comes in and they get a temp job done, or they get, 'cause I also saw that you do the audio-video assistance. - Sure. - If they were to fail, customer drives away a couple of days later, maybe something's not quite right, what is the process they would bring it back to you? - Yes. - Right, for repair? - Yeah, just like any other warranty. You know, we have a warranty on anything we do just as if you went to, I mean, you could, again, I hate to bring up Best Buy again, but if you walked into Best Buy, you bought a, you know, you bought a NHB computer and you had a problem with it, you can go back to that Best Buy to have it repaired, or you can go to any other at Best Buy. It'd be the same thing with us. You can go to our store, this particular store, or any other table at the store in the country to get that warranty repaired. But I will tell you that our return rate is less than 5% nationwide. - Okay, thank you. What is the expected area or radius of your customer base? - Our customers, typically we find that our customers come from a 21-minute drive time, and that's based on Buxton demographic data. - Right, is that specific to Texas or that's across the nation? - That's across the country, that's across the country. I believe, I could get you the state-specific information, I don't have that on me, but I, people, usually in Texas and some other areas that we have, like in New York, people do drive, tend to drive a little bit longer than 21 minutes. It's actually a short drive time for some of these areas. In South Florida, where I live, I mean, you wouldn't drive more than 10 minutes, because it would be, the traffic would drive you insane. - Are there other questions? - Can I ask you a question? - Wait, you'll get an opportunity. - We're gonna have public comment next. - I'm sorry, did you have a question or clarification? - I was just gonna offer a clarification to the question about other uses being considered. So understand that when we receive an application for someone that's interested in, whether it's developing a property or occupying an existing space, we look at the existing zoning to see what the business is and how to classify that use. So we go through the question about, are there other use classifications to be considered general retail versus the automotive minor? That's part of the administrative work that we do, is to make an interpretation based upon the best possible definition and use classification that's within the zoning ordinance. You may find sometimes that we have a use that fits in one category because it's very general abroad, but because we have a category that's much more specific or actually sites that particular business, then it gets placed in the most restrictive category, because that's what's available in the zoning ordinance. And then we look to see then what zoning districts that use is allowed through. But we go through an exhaustive process to make sure that, 'cause we wanna make sure that we're classifying the business properly, because we realize that there's an impact associated with the applicant, whether or not we make a decision that's in favor of them, one that triggers a specific use permit in our discussion this evening, or if it's allowed by right. So we try to make sure we make that correct use classification. So that's part of our job as planners. - Okay, did you have another follow-up question? - No, that was it. I wanted to know if there was a clarification there. Thank you. - Any other questions for the applicants? Thank you. - Thank you guys for taking the time to listen to me today. I appreciate it, and I hope you're the best. - Thank you, thank you, thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you. - So this is a public hearing, and I saw a bunch of people in. I don't see any blue or white cards, but I think that's probably okay. - 'Cause they gave them to us. - We did it? - We didn't receive anything. - Do they need to fill one out? - No, if you just give your name and address. - Great, okay, who would like to go first? Go ahead. And when you approach the podium, if you could just introduce yourself and your affiliation with all of us. Do they need to state their address as well for the record? Okay. - John Weathers, I'm a partner in the property. 9501 David Ford Road RL. So one, I think, big delineation between their use in a general automotive is, everything that they sell and do is elective. It's not a requirement to keep a vehicle operational. You've gotta change wheel, you've gotta change tires, you've gotta do the stuff that's in that minor automotive. You don't have to do the stuff that they're selling. You don't have to have window tint, you don't have to have stereos, you don't have to have speakers. So my interpretation is for the general retail. Somebody asked about the bay door. So the bay door's already there. It's been there for 50 plus years. There's no modifications to the bay door. It's already got electric openers. It's there. It's gonna be there if they move there or if somebody else moves there. So that answers that one. Compatibility with the surrounding properties. If y'all are aware of what's around there, you've got a lot of rundown auto sales place. You've got a paint place. You do have a nice apartment across the way. You've got a rundown mini storage. So I think this is gonna kinda set the high water mark for the redevelopment of this area as far as commercial real estate's concerned. So I want y'all to keep that in mind. You asked about the SUP process. One reason that none of us wanna go through that is essentially the time associated with it. We've been told it's gonna be a six to eight month process, which that is traditionally how long it takes. Again, the $8,000. And we've been told by city staff that, again, if we apply for the SUP, it's really just a way to run us off to make us not wanna do it, essentially. So I'm pretty frustrated with this whole process. I mean, I own the building. It's really kinda pigeon-holed me into something that I can't do anything with. I thought this was a no-brainer, home-run, great tenant for us. I think it'd be great for that area. And then that's all I got. Thank y'all for your time. - Now, you raised your hand 'cause you said you had a question for the applicant. - I was gonna ask if the services were required or not. - Okay, all right, so. We got that. - I asked him. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Thanks. - All right. - Can I go up there? - Yes, please do. - All right. - Waiting patiently, thank you so much. You know the drill. - Brent Pounders, my wife Michelle and I were the franchise owners of this location. - And your address for the record? - It is 1310 Circle J Trail in Prosper, Texas. - I'm sorry, it's Brent? - Brent. - Don't have anything fancy set up for you guys. I just wanna come in and introduce myself. We started looking. We zoned in on Denton. We wanted our business in Denton. We saw that the clientele we wanted to attract was already here. Found this building. Nothing was ever told that we'd need a special use permit for this building. If we would've known that, we wouldn't have went to a different building. We were told this happened in 2019. So we didn't find out about this until after we started going through the permit process. If you look at the area, I don't know, how many automotive stores are there in the area right now? Does anybody know? I know you wanna see it up. What's that? - On South Film. I'm sorry, I'm running into how many cars are in the team. - There's a few. - Right, so when we went into a lease agreement, we didn't think we'd have an issue because we saw all the automotive already there. But we're here where we're at. Anybody have any questions for us? - I don't. - All right, thank you for your time. - So this is a public hearing. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? - I want to, but I'm not going to. - Are you sure? - I don't feel like it's gonna make a difference. It was the Planning Committee. - I did have a caveat, I'm sorry. - Oh, go ahead. - Yeah, come on up. - When this was first determined that this was a light automotive use, I did call up the Planning Committee and talked to them several times. Our major concern is, one, the time. Two, the funds required for the special use permit. And three, we were told we were gonna be denied if we didn't apply for the special use permit on two different occasions that I was told that. So, that's why we're here. - You were told you would be denied or you could be denied? - Would be, highly, I think we wrote it down. It was, one of the staffers said that it was a high possibility that we would be denied if we did apply for the special use permit. So, that's not very, yeah. You know, showing up today, we called, we asked, what do we need to prepare? What do we need to bring? We're coming into like a, thank gosh Jeff showed up because he's been here before, but we were told nothing about this process. I didn't, we didn't know we had to have a yellow card or a red card or a green card. We didn't know what we needed to do to be able to speak for our business. In this business, we've already got, we're two parents raising kids. We're not overly wealthy people here by no means. I had to pull money out of 401k to start this business and we've got 150,000 invested in this business already. We've got over 30,000 invested in this location already. But yet, when we're going through this process of a city, we were never told anything. So, it's just kind of disheartening on, you know, what's the process we go from here? You know, if we had to go through the tension peak, is it gonna be nine months? And how much more money am I gonna be, you know, when it's competing with raising three little girls? So, thanks again. - Thank you. - Again, is there anyone who'd like to, oh, go ahead. - I was gonna say, since this keeps coming up, it's not fully germane to this request, but since it keeps being brought up, I didn't know, Chair, if you wanted me to address kind of the process and potentially why the applicant has found them and the challenge that they have been with respect to just the process and the claims that the staff has not been helpful in this process. That's all right with you. So, when someone is interested in looking at a property, we always strongly encourage them to contact the city to find out if that use is allowed. And unfortunately, sometimes what happens is that business owners or prospective business owners make decisions based upon existing land uses that are within the area. Many of the automotive businesses that are currently in downtown are not conforming. So, when folks are making decisions based upon just kind of what they're seeing across the landscape and the types of businesses that are there, we always caution them to that because of the fact that those uses may not be legally conforming uses. And that's one of the challenges we have just where this property is particularly located. With my team, they try to be helpful to let applicants know, especially if a use requires approval of a specific use permit, as to whether or not the city staff would be able to support that use or not. So that they know when they choose, whether they choose to file, whether or not that's something that they believe the staff would be able to support based upon policies that city council has adopted that were required to enforce. And so we try to be able to let applicants know upfront whether or not we believe the request is consistent with their comprehensive plan or it's not. We realize that there's a business decision involved in it. There's time and money associated with that. And so the case of a specific use permit, it does take anywhere from six to eight months, sometimes nine months, depending upon how responsive the applicant is. There are a series of drawings that are required to be submitted that are associated with it. That's a completely different separate application process. But there are documents that have to be prepared that are submitted to us as part of our review. At the end of the day, staff makes a recommendation to the Planning and Zoning Commission and ultimately city council to make that final decision. They do look to us to find out what they believe or what our perspective is on whether or not the request would be able to be supported or not. So we try to be able to provide that as a customer service item so that someone knows if they're facing more of an uphill challenge versus something that may be a more simpler, smoother process. There is the time component associated with the specific use permit because there are more detailed drawings that are having to be reviewed. There is also an application fee associated with it. I know there was concerns expressed regarding our fees that are charged. The fees that the city charges are based upon a cost recovery. So for the services of the staff and time and effort that are involved. There are also state law requirements that come into play that we have to be able to enforce and apply. So we try to do our jobs with a smile. We try to be able to let folks know in a positive means as to what the outcome may be. Happy to visit with the applicant separately if there was some concerns in how the message might have been delivered 'cause I can take that as an opportunity to be able to help train my staff further on that. But just so you know, it comes down to business decisions and the applicant has chosen to pursue this process with respect to our determination on the appropriate classification of the use. But just wanna make sure you understand kind of the other side of the story associated with this when applicants come forth and request to be able to occupy a building, so thank you. - Thank you. - Sorry, can I say something in reference to that? - Can I, yeah, I mean that's, yeah. - Just take a second. - We're getting close to being off posting, so. - Yeah, so now. - So let's keep it short and at your discretion. - Just a second. - You have one minute. - All right. - Okay. - So just, to your point, the architect firm Pistol, they did have a, before they did, any architectural plans submitted for any permits, there was a pre-conference that was done with that department and nothing was conveyed at that point about the use not being approved, otherwise we would not have gone through spending $15,000 to draw architectural plans for something that was gonna need an SUV three months later. And I just wanted to address that. - So thank you, but I think we're off topic now. - Gotcha, just wanted to address that because again, it's a concern for me because there's a lot of back and forth where it comes to that issue. - I appreciate that. - You know, we did try it. - And I would encourage you to speak with staff afterwards. - Gotcha, thank you. - Appreciate it. - We'll have you visit afterwards. - Yeah, thank you, thanks. - So, is there anyone else in the audience who hasn't had an opportunity to speak yet who would like to speak? This is a public hearing. - Hearing none, I'm gonna close the public hearing. We haven't made a decision yet. That happens next. I lost my place in line, they're calling me. - It's a lot of paper. - It's a lot of paper. And it wasn't very bold, so I don't know what I'm doing. - Yeah, have your discretion. You can give them a chance to do a rebuttal if they want to address remarks that were in need. But also, we've kind of been doing that as we go. - Yeah, got it, yeah, yeah. So, okay. So I'm closing the public hearing. The time is 6.46. I really would like to find where I'm at because it's not often that we have these sorts of like two-part meetings and this is a lot on the line. And we'll make sure we're doing this, right? Thank you. - What's the rules? - Okay, so it looks like you are on, you've closed the hearing. So you're just doing the concluding items. - Yeah. - And then we'll move on to the next meeting. - And then we can move on to the next meeting, okay. Are there any concluding items before we close this meeting and open the next one? - Do we get a chance to think, like, before we-- - No, we're going. - We go straight to the next one. - We're going straight to the next one. - Yeah, it's a thing, this Texas legislature did a thing a couple years ago and we all know how Texas legislatures like complicate stuff. In the past, we'd have an opportunity just to kinda keep going and have the conversation. This requires a two-part meeting and it has to be the same people. And so good luck getting us all in the same room at the same time together. So, no, we're gonna think on our feet. But we had a lot of time to talk, so, yeah. - So, procedurally, at the next meeting, you'll entertain a motion and then there will be a discussion phase. - Yes. - Okay, thank you. - Okay, so I am gonna end this meeting. The time is 6 47. Take a breath.