Apr 13, 2022 Economic Development Partnership Board on 2022-04-13 11:00 AM

All right and with more work we're gonna go ahead and move in I'm Steve Edgar I'm the vice chair Jill Jester the chair of this committee is out of town this week and so our today wasn't able to attend so we'll move forward with our agenda the first one is consideration of approval for minutes from February 9th I believe everyone has had a chance if I can get a motion approval have a motion need a second second and a second thank you any any conversation around any corrections all right we'll move into the vote all in favor aye please any not in favor or opposed I guess hearing none that passes we'll move into we're gonna skip item B right now we'll let that one delay until those presenters are with us we'll move into EDP 22-027 Christine I believe you're gonna take us through this I am what we're asking the board to do today is we're looking at a point downtown Economic Development Committee members we've had a couple members John Cartwright he's the Denton Main Street Association president he turned his position there on the board they had a new president voted in Tracy Long and then in December Michael Talley who was the Economic Development County representative he resigned his position and so in the interim they have a person Rita Maloney who is the grant and project manager for economic development she'll be attending any meetings that Michael Talley would have attended so we'd like to ask for your nomination to the committee for those two folks so moved all second and the second any conversation around it any questions hearing none we'll move to vote all in favor please say aye in any opposed hearing none at motion passes thanks Christina and moving on to EDP 22-023 Christine I believe you have this one as well okay so there's two parts to this agenda item first will receive the annual report from Heather Gregory with Stoke and then the second part which will be the presentation of it should I sit Stan do y'all care I'm Heather Gregory I know many of you lots of familiar faces I am the owner of Hickory and rail ventures which has a public-private partnership with the city of Denton to run Stoke which is Denton's co-working space we run that space and we have programs and events that we do to support entrepreneurs which is what we have proposed is renewing that contract to continue our partnership so I'm just going to kind of run through basically 2021 our events some membership information about Stoke our mission is to create an environment that fosters a sense of community and a welcoming space where entrepreneurs have access to talent education mentorship capital and a diverse network of peers and we do that by we strive to have a positive impact on the economy and culture of Denton by increasing visibility and reach facilitating job creation and retaining university students okay um so as I said we are it's a public-private partnership so we on the left side here you can kind of see the city of Denton has agreements with all of these partners in economic development so we leave you ourselves as kind of the ground up economic development so we're helping entrepreneurs start and grow their business through operating our co-working space and like I said the programs and events that we've run through our space on the right-hand side are some of the partners that we maintain relationships with and work with to help create a healthy entrepreneur ecosystem some details of this I'll get into in a little bit but we run an incubator program with Texas Women's University Center for Women Entrepreneurs we've run two cohorts of this through Stoke over the last couple of years so it is a five-month program last year we had seven companies run through this cohort and we ended that event in a pitch event in late February we have relationships with UNT kind of in a couple of different ways we support hackathons that the university does we are engaged with members from from staff and faculty from UNT and an education technology alliance that we coordinate and the through the Murphy Center we also share contacts and help support entrepreneurs depending on what their needs are and we do partnerships with NCTC and as well with Denton ISD I serve as a mentor and they have an incubate EDU program and entrepreneurship program for high school students at Geyer High School I serve as a mentor and a coach to two different teams there so this is just kind of some what what we're doing partnership wise in Denton this is some member information I'm not going to read everything and to you there are some quotes here about our space and our staff the way that we support entrepreneurs we do we do member surveys twice a year so we're really collecting a lot of data to understand what we're doing well what ways we can improve and this is again in terms of running the 9,000 square foot co-working space and the programs and some of the member staff that we saw in 2020 2021 was that 89% of our member companies experienced growth during their time at Stoke last year we had a total of 115 member companies throughout the year and they give us a net promoter score of 88.3 so that means that they're going to refer us to friends or colleagues at that high rate and then retention numbers I just think that this is really incredible this of our current members we have 17 that have been there for longer than three years 23 that have been there for between two and three years and 19 member companies that have been there for over a year so last year year ago whenever I was here we were in a very different position the city's lease on the space was ending and we were in a position to need to sign a new lease on our space to be able to do that we we asked for city support and having the confidence of that we negotiated a four-year lease on our building which is in the rail yard so we're behind spiral diner across from and we share a parking lot with DCTA so we signed a four-year lease on the building and in part of that negotiation to make to make it work for the landlord and be able to generate the rent that we needed they they covered the cost of building out 12 new private offices so we went from having eight private offices to 12 to 20 they added 12 and that allowed us to basically be able to make it work financially to stay there and run the space and this is a picture of some of the one of the new private offices our event space essentially converted to co-working space so we more than doubled our private office capacity we did not lose any co-working seats or dedicated seats we added as you can see in a really incredible mural and and we did all of this while we were open we we didn't lose any members due to construction and we really focused on taking great care of our people and we were able to stay open as we did this three months of construction I don't think this video is going to play it's on our YouTube channel and this is as I mentioned the program that we do with Texas Women's University in 2021 we wrapped our first cohort and then we were able to use marketing dollars to hire a local company to do a great video to kind of capture some of the successes from the women in that cohort we ran Flintconf again for the third year and it was our second year to do it virtually I'm really thrilled that it's coming back this year in person so it's going to be at Senago Bell on May 4th yeah that's a video that we're not going to be able to see also in 2021 we this is the program that we run every fall it's global entrepreneurship week so we do basically a series of events in Denton to showcase entrepreneurship to support entrepreneurs so one of the biggest events that we did that week was the Denton Startup Crawl we had over a hundred people attend a crawl that highlighted 12 creative businesses in Denton and so that was what we did for global entrepreneurship week we have a podcast we do blogs every month we do weekly mentor sessions and we do lunch and learns event lunch and learns on a monthly basis so here you can see kind of the totals of how many mentor sessions how many member only events we did lunch and lunch and then our startup and tech focused events and we were really thrilled we celebrated five years of being open in August and we were able to do an official chamber ribbon cutting where the mayor spoke a few words and we were really able to celebrate kind of an open house celebrating our recently completed offices and our five-year birthday of being open and in our space and that's it that's just kind of like a high-level overview of what we do and what the program support does for for Stoke and for entrepreneurs and them I'm happy to answer questions now or should we save them or you can answer questions now if you want to ask questions about the annual report I have just in regard to the vision of Stoke, I'm Steve, facilitating job creation and retaining university students how do you actually track that what's your audit process on are we being successful on that we I mean we we have systems that track our member numbers and we're we're collecting information like I said from the surveys but then also from tracking member numbers and members are students we do have some we do have some student members for tracking who's attending events where we yeah we have kind of an internal tracking system in terms of who's participating how and where and and maintaining those those kind of relationships with each entity and as far as facilitating job creation I saw the member growth of some of the members member companies I guess I'm I apologize y'all yeah somewhat confused between member and member company so that's a great question so and because we do have we have we have remote workers we have individual freelancers that are one person working at Stoke it's one one person one company being represented but we do have some companies that have anywhere between two I mean over time there they have anywhere between two and ten employees that are based out of Stoke and so one company sometimes does represent more than one member so we count member as an individual person who has access to our space in a member company is that kind of overarching entity any questions you all are obviously much more familiar with this so I we've been here every year okay so as Heather mentioned we do have an agreement with Stoke and it's time to renew that agreement so we're going to take a look at today like to receive a report we'll discussion and give stuff direction regarding the one-year renewal of the contract and we also ask you to make a recommendation to City Council to approve so Stoke activities is we just went through with her presentation they have had memory events 25 memory events 48 mentor sessions and hosted the startup and tech events and actually they go beyond just managing the co-working space where Stoke provides programming and has grown to include things like the Flint Conference Gold Walter and Pranavar week the startup crawl innovation group podcast conversations and coffee and then the accelerator startup incubator program with TWA you Center for women entrepreneurs and this year I got to participate in that when they did their pitch contest and it was really a fun event and do not anything like what I expected it to be so I was really excited to be part of that and Hickory Rail Ventures has been managing the Denton Stoke location since 2017 and Stoke Denton was created as a program within the city of the City Office of Economic Development and then we went on to lease the co-working space last year as Heather commented Council directed us to turn over that ownership of assets and other things to Stoke so now they're managing that full-time in the new agreement that we started with Stoke last year it began on July of 2021 Stoke has gone on to not just meet the expectations of agreement but gone past what we've asked them to do and so this year we'd like to look at a new agreement that should begin until January 1st of 2022 and just kind of looking at the end of the agreement and going forward again that contract the current contract ends on June 30th the part of the start of the agreement with Stoke was to help them through some of the things that happened over the last few years we've had COVID small businesses have been suffering and so we've been seeing a more need for entrepreneurs and that is also part of our new strategic plan so HRV Stoke has had a significant increase in programming and the new program that they have is actually part of our strategic plan goals so part of those goals is to champion and convene it's hard to access capital capital for the entrepreneurs building that ecosystem for entrepreneurs promoting Denton's creative brand and then growing their own talent initiative and those are some of the things that you saw in the agreement if you had an opportunity to be through that if you don't let me know and I'm happy to pull it out and show that to you in general terms the agreement HRV and the city want your partnership agreement focused on supporting the strategic the city's strategic efforts in that area of entrepreneurship tech and small business support it is a one-year agreement and the financial support ask is $143,170 and the key activities that we're looking at our event support so again those programs such as Flint Conference startup global entrepreneur week programming support for the lunch and learns accelerator incubator programs copying combos marketing support the blogs podcast video social media and the ecosystem support and those are all things that happen because we support Stoke and we provide that that financial support to them to make those programs happen we will continue with monthly meetings with Stoke and an executive director Heather and economic development staff currently we do need on more than a monthly basis we're always in communications with Heather Heather does provide us with monthly reports that coincide with our strategic action items and we do track those and the information providing those reports is included in our quarterly report matrix report so each quarter the EDP board receives a quarterly strategic plan report and that'll be coming out next month so we just finished a quarter so in the next EDP board meeting you'll be seeing that but if you don't have access to it right now let us know and I'll be sure to give you our previous report and then also Stoke is required to provide us with an annual report which is provided to you here so one new impact to the proposed budget is support for a new program that we'd like to launch through Stoke and it's an entrepreneur expo and pitch contest this does fall within our strategic plan goal - which is to foster growth entrepreneur expo would be the expo is a place for entrepreneurs to come connect directly with customers it's a platform for them to showcase their talents excuse me and also to help them connect with other like-minded entrepreneurs a new aspect of that is a pitch contest and while pitch contests aren't new what is new is that we'd like to offer a cash direct prize to the entrepreneurs so part of that cash direct program along with the other parts of that to to the entrepreneur would be mentorship training support and resources from established agencies because we do partner with the workforce of North Texas we partner with the ISD with TWU, UNT and all of those programming together have identified and established programs to help entrepreneurs so part of the pitch contest win would be to also complete those programs and go through some of the additional training and then we also want to include products reports to track their success through those programs and how they were you how they utilize the funds to develop and advance their business so and also this new pitch expo and contest is in partnership with all the business Alliance group members if you're not familiar with that it's a new group that was started last year by our business development administrator and it brings together all of the entities in Denton that support entrepreneurs and it's a way for us to collaborate work together to support entrepreneurs without duplicating efforts wherever we can so it's a good way to bring us all together and so staff recommendations approval of the renewal of the agreement with a recommendation to City Council any questions for me see the line the ten thousand dollars is that a ten thousand dollar prize or is that some program support and a prize that's some smaller amount well one of the parts of the strategic plan is to bring cash on to entrepreneurs and so the idea is to have the ten thousand dollars spread out between several winners so that that way they they receive that influx of cash something to help them maybe it's a new business a new entrepreneur and they need some specialized equipment or maybe they want to get it into lease a new space it's whatever they identify as the need and that's part of the application for the for the pitch contest is asking them how we use these funds you know we want to make sure that they're used to promote the business and to grow their entrepreneur business whatever that may be and so we've identified a low medium and high as far as experience and activity for the entrepreneurship so maybe you have someone using in the idea state but they have some vetting of that that requires some funds then you have your new startup maybe they've only been in business a couple years they have some expansion they want to do or maybe it's someone's been in business for maybe three to five years and they want to start with an employee or are using specialized training so they can finish what it is in their process that they're producing so they have to identify here's how I'm going to use the money here's why I'm asking for it and then that's part of the competition aspect it doesn't be part of the pitch so it's up front not as they win and as requested right that particular part hasn't quite been identified yet we're still getting that out but that is something that we're looking at discussing because it it sometimes depends on the entrepreneur right what is the need that they have and maybe someone comes in and they've already gone through some of the training programs that we've identified that are needed to go through as part of the contest and so I think that's something that the Alex group needs to talk about a little more and and that out with some of the experiences that Heather's had with her with the contest. I was curious if there's other communities out there that are doing this. Yeah it is. The University of Oklahoma has a scholarship grant program like this that they have all their entrepreneurship pitch and that's where we got a lot of the bones for it is through theirs and they've been doing theirs I think they're on year five of their program and they do get the money right up front but they don't have any of the follow-up questions or or you know kinds of requirements that we're asking of our entrepreneurs because we want to support them and help them grow and without you just sometimes it's giving the money's on enough. Sure so I was just curious is this I guess we only do a one-year agreement is there why would we not do longer? You know as we were talking about the transition that we had last year as we were owning the space it really altered the relationship with HRV and as we went into that there were conversations at the council level of what is our financial commitment as we move forward we want to stair step that down what is the appropriate amount I think COVID itself just kind of put a kind of a cloud over all that it's hard to tell we know how important it is right now so our recommendation at this time is let's keep that same level of service keeping that same contribution as we go into the budget year and give us another year to have those conversations with council and the truth matter is any of these contracts even if it was a multi-year contract it still it still requires the budget conversation if it's not budgeted and there's always that's a piece of the contract so a one-year contract is essentially what it would be regardless but that's that's some of the history that got us to this point of saying we're comfortable just keeping the same commitment for this year and then having another conversation next year. I just heard what you said about your four-year lease and looks like there's a lot of financial support with all the activities that you do to promote so just trying to see that partnership from the commitment organization. Any other questions? From the the universities and ISD any feedback on how it's working how it's modified changes that you would see. Yeah we're definitely seeing the skills of the pitch and the entrepreneur expo in everything that we're doing we had a presentation last night with our group that did interior design architecture design and within our schools and working through some of that so we're we're seeing that piece. The question I would ask on your $10,000 investment prize so to speak or however you'd like to say is what outcomes are you seeking from those individuals so that you know when you come back next time and we want to do next year's budget the year after the year after what story do we have to tell that this is what we got for her or this is what this entrepreneur got for that $10,000 or it's what the community got for that business development we got from that so what are the outcomes that we're seeking as a result of that piece? We'd like to we'd like to see them grow and we'd like to see them return some of their investment by sharing and coordinating with other entrepreneurs and participating and staying in the community while they do that. So could that be part of the application for the grant for the for that now how will we know we were successful? You know how would we know how you know what's what are we gonna look at? We are looking at so as far as the program being successful won't be the number of participants in the pitch contest the participation and completion of the mentorship activities and then how they utilize and the prize to development to develop and advance their business. So we're looking at checkbacks with them or our follow-up with them at like 3, 6, 9 and 12 months so that way we have a good understanding and you know hopefully it works and you know everyone utilizes the funds and it helps support them and that's why we were asking for the extra or including the extra training because something we found in a lot of our small businesses in Fenton is they're not financially savvy so why they're really good at the business of making their their whatever does they make the business part of it they're they're not that you know not that educated on it and that came across really strongly when we were looking at the grants that were made available for businesses during COVID right so many businesses failed to receive funds because they didn't have the necessary documentation or paperwork or their credit was poor or other things were happening were preventing them from receiving funds and I think that I mean I think that says a lot about our businesses and the need they have from learning how to know the backing of the finance part of the business and that's what we're hoping to help the entrepreneurs with at the beginning level of starting their company and their businesses they're going to understand the financial piece of that and that's why we're asking for the additional training and programming I see a huge benefit of making that happen for a couple reasons one if you have a desired outcome when you start if you don't get there you learn what supports to need to put in place to help them get there right and so I think I think it's one thing to have numbers of people participate or mentors ours that's really you know quantitative data that's just collected but it's not necessarily influencing the success of what you're asking them to do so I think you know having them put that application working through that so that you know what how to help them when they don't get to that mark which is what you want to do right you want to help them be successful because that makes everybody successful and and I think that's a that's a big piece is no one how are we going to know what you're hitting so that we can support you along the way if in fact you aren't hitting it along the way just like teaching kids to read right and I would just say along those lines you can put it to where how does it speak to you the mission mission values of stoke as well that's right I think that's great I was gonna say I agree because I'm assuming I don't know as much about this function either but they were you know they're getting to use the space in some of these services for free so you at some point you gotta have also there so that failures launch and so that we can make sure that we're serving the highest and best use I do like it that we probably should all do this more but the city partner because either for mission so ours because it's coming through the sister grants really targeted to women-owned businesses so you only any part of the population to work on state funds so there's limitations on that for example the cage of marketing the cage for rent so city funds may be of use for the other purpose so it's gotta be a partnership of different sources of funds to help them most so I do think assuming they try but you know there's also expertise within the universe we should be tapping into because to your point about the business acumen or whatever they can do to the volunteer time and said and just answer people's questions so that we're doing a service piece to bring in other information in that have access to unless they have papers so I I mean obviously I understand why we want to do this through Stokes since it's a city investment I do think that Jane Nelson Center for Entrepreneurship is such I mean it's a statewide tremendous resource in our backyard so I would just I mean my thoughts where I hope we were leverage the practices that they have I think it's more about you know giving the money but the support that you know how how to do a pro forma statement so and that can be done through that or I mean that the Center for Entrepreneurship I think the other pieces who you know who's viewing the candidates and who's choosing and I know that I think most of the startups that we're seeing are more retail type or internet retail type startups and from a university perspective we would love to see that be more science tech and I think the strategic plan vision for the city but you know I think you can only choose the winner based on the applicants but if there's a way to incentivize those and you know how they're decided I mean we know hackathons we know that any sort of incentive to get people to come forward is good it's the support resources to do that and you know I think our John McCary the head of our Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation will be a good person to sit on the panel to review as would Tracy or other folks. I could just share with you the business allies that are helping with the pitch contest so you have economic development the Chamber of Economic Development, Genblog Chamber, UNT Murphy Center for Entrepreneur and Innovation, TWU Center for Women, United Way, Texas Workforce, Fit and ISP Career and Technology Center, Education, NCTCE, the SBDC and then of course Stoke and then the Main Street Association so all of those partners are coming together to review the applicants and beyond the review board for the pitch contest. Any other conversation? I mean in their application I mean I use the word performance measures and maybe that's not the best thing for every applicant but same time it's on $10,000 total right we're not breaking the bank but if it's successful then there probably will be an ask next year until it's increased and more people involved and because the council is very focused on small business incentives right now less so than some of our larger economic development activities so maybe the applicants can help define their own performance measures and then if they're let's say I come in and I say I want to make 3,000 widgets and sell them all by the end of next quarter and that's my that's my pitch is I'm going to get the special equipment and make 3,000 widgets and the panel says man that's a really cool idea we don't think you can do that we think we're going to set your measure at a thousand widgets and that the how to define their success kind of comes from the applicant and they can be kind of adjusted up or down by the approving panel or whoever over Wednesday say yeah we're going to prove it this and out you're gonna you're gonna you won this amount of money and your performance measures are defined this way and that's another I mentioned that because that's another item right now with the council is performance measures and return on investment and making sure that we're even at very low dollar amounts investing well in the community and not getting burned. One of our members, Tracey Irby, she's with the TWA center for one of our today hours, she has some really good guidelines and she's been really a wonderful help and helping us to determine you know how do we want to map this and and what are the things we need to focus on and ask them and and there's some things that they mentioned I was like I I would not even thought of that so that's why it's really good to have all these partners in and get everyone's experience and an input on what is the best practice for this and there's nothing that says that after the first year we can't adjust it and make changes you know but being our first year out you know we're just trying to trying to produce metrics that we can continue to grow and build on so that it is a successful program. I think those are good people that you have advising on what the metrics should be because again no one wants to stay here a year from now and say we gave away ten thousand dollars and they're out of business so ensuring that those you know like those processes are in place to support and educate the entrepreneur and at least from an education perspective we have a lot of faculty with great ideas that spin off companies but if you don't have the business sense or you know aren't you aren't supportive of the business acumen then they fail they have a high risk of failure but Tracy's process is great. Great conversation Heather, Christine thank you for navigating that with us any other comments if not we're gonna take it to vote I believe we do need recommendation for this right yes forward so anyone that would put forward a motion motion to carry and second thank you any other conversation we'll move to vote all in favor say aye aye any opposed okay thank you all great conversation the next Eric I believe you are addressing that's 22 - 0 22 alright I've never had that happen well you came back okay good morning my name is Erica Sullivan I'm the economic development program administrator we're going to be talking about incentive policies and the evaluation matrix so the objective today is to provide the information that well this board in February May and the City Council made at the March work session and then seek direction from EDP regarding those changes so we're going to go over five topics today so we're going to have the EDP recommendations again from February we're gonna have the council direction from the March work session the changes that the council suggested to the strategic growth areas as well as the changes that both bodies made to the evaluation matrix and then we're going to discuss living wage and income limit considerations that council directed so we'll begin with EDP recommendations so the EDP recommended that both staff and the EDP board recommendations on the evaluation matrix be brought up before council so you have both parties participating and then full of perspectives another category was added to three of the sections and you have the evaluation matrix at your table so we have the strategic growth areas for those who weren't here that's our former industry sectors then we have our priority considerations and then we have our public benefit considerations so ten points would be added to each category so if something didn't fit within the categories you could put it in there then we also had a request from this board to increase the expansion of the tax base and the fiscal impact categories by five points and then request was also made for range cohorts of four acceptable and excellent added to the evaluation matrix and then staff also added the sub totals to just make it easier to calculate EDP also requested example projects to be included in that evaluation matrix so we selected as staff three projects the first project has a significant tax base and capital investment this was a tax payment the second project is a local expansion project and they received a chapter 380 agreement and then the final ones an entrepreneur tech project received an expansion and job-based grant through a chapter 380 agreement so that was the EDP direction the council direction the first thing the council asked is that we include two additional names our industry codes to our strategic growth areas again these are our former industry sectors for those of you who weren't here and so they requested that we add 711 the performing arts since we are creative here and 512 music production publication to the creative strategic growth area and then they also requested an additional consideration to encourage minimum and or living wages for all new employees to the matrix so adding this additional consideration it would also be included in the policy so it's included here in this slide as well for council changes and requests to policies that one council member also made a request for a threshold for a minimum hourly wage requirement for all new jobs that were created by the project so the first one requested $21 per hour to encourage nice dress encourage and the second one would be a requirement a threshold requirement of at least 15 and that's a point to start from and that's what the council suggested the council also wanted more information so they requested information on the average and median wages to begin in addition to that they talked about living wage so the mayor actually requested information from Texas Workforce Solutions and then staff I brought up the income limits from HUD and then I also found MIT income living wage calculations as well that will be presented later on in the presentation so strategic growth areas again these are our former industry sectors used to the two changes again there were different sections there was connective there's creative there was sustainable and competitive this was just to the creative sector and then these are the two five one two and seven eleven for the performing and creative arts evaluation matrix again this includes both the EDP board and City Council EDP changes are noted in red and City Council changes are noted in green to make it easier so here it is it's also at your table and we'll go over each section individually so the first section is our strategic growth areas our industry codes these are our targets our industry sector targets so you'll see that other has been added to this section others been added to each of the categories and this is an EDP recommendation and then you'll see the subtitles so those are the changes and also change the point structure so all those are denoted in red and then you have the actual scoring so we have three the three samples we talked about so the capital the expansion and the tech so the capital high project and the expansion project fell under connective and then the entrepreneur tech fell under creative this is the second half of the priority our first half of the priority considerations and you'll see that under generating new utility customers the capital example did very well here which makes sense encouraging new business market suppliers and entrepreneurship the entrepreneur samples for highest in this category the capital sample was the only one that had engaged the sustainable practices in their application increasing high-wage jobs you'll see that the tech samples for the best in this category moving on to the second half of the priority considerations you will see in green it's the council recommendation so this is encouraging a living wage for all employees and they suggested 21 an hour which equates to forty three thousand six eighty annually and since we've been doing everything else via annual and our policies converted it to annual you'll see also the other consideration that this board recommended and then the subtotal as well and then so moving to the evaluation portion the capital sample the expansion and the tech encouraging non-space jobs the tech scored highest in this category it's where an infill development redevelopment the expansion project utilized a building that had been vacant for two years so they scored highest in this category encouraging a living wage this is a new category so we I did evaluation of this after council so you can see that the tech entrepreneur does best in this particular category none were headquarters they're not included there and then child care assistance wasn't something that we asked prior so we didn't have any data on that and then other considerations for a max of ten points the capital sample was regional distribution they had some ISO standards that we gave them to staff gave additional credit for as well as the expansion intact for their retention of jobs and I missed one item in the other category so the other category staff evaluation on the strategic growth areas the expansion sample had two industry codes so they had aerospace and manufacturing so they were given additional points for their aerospace and then the tech entrepreneur sample had different spoke companies offshoot companies so they were given different additional points for that as well so we'll move on to the public benefit section and so this board had asked for additional points to be considered for the expanding the tax phase and fiscal and economic impacts and then you see the other and then the subtitle changes as well as the point structure changes in red as far as the evaluation expanding the tax base you can see that the high tax base capital tax evasion scored the best in this category fiscal and economic impacts both the capital sample and the tech sample scored well the spinoff of jobs and that type of thing and the community investment you'll see the public-private partnership the capital sample had a lot more partnerships with different entities and then they use the local contractors the other factors I didn't award any additional other in this particular category and then so the final request that this board made was to actually put these into cohorts so we have poor acceptable and excellent and you will see the total scores for each of these and so two of them were at the high end of the acceptable category and then the capital sample scored excellent we'll now move on to living wage and income considerations so again we talked about the things that council requested encouraging a living wage for all employees of at least twenty one dollars or forty three six eighty annually a threshold for a minimum hourly wage of at least fifteen per hour or thirty one thousand two hundred out annually and then both encouraging a living wage and minimum hourly wage for all new employees could also be considered so you could do both one or the other in your recommendation and then there's a summary table of what's proposed from council and it's a point to start from and it will aid in our discussion so the most basic information we'll start with that with annual and hourly wages or average wage and median wage for the county for Denton County and the source is MC our statistical package that we utilize and the MIT living wage calculation for Texas is presented here you also have it at your table and I presented it in both hourly on one side and annual on the other side to make it easier but you'll see on the top you have the number of adults and then the next row you'll see the number of children and it increases as you go towards the right and then you have on the very bottom your minimum wage on the top you have your living wage and then you have your poverty wage I went ahead and put bold a family of four for each of the things that we're going to discuss we'll begin with the first table which is the only living wage calculator the next two are going to be income limits they're not apples to apples exactly but I think they helped give us a better idea another thing that we've looked at is other cities so we looked at what other cities are using for living wage a number of them don't have it but the city of Austin does and it's $15 per hour the city of San Antonio and Dallas are a little over 11 an hour so we're seeing a range of about 11 to 15 dollars from other samples the next is HUD Department of Housing and Urban Development and these are the income limits for the Dallas MSA and so they based this based on median income so you'll see the number of persons in the family then you'll see the family increases you go across and then you'll see low 80% of the income limit followed by 50% of the income limit and then finally extremely low and again we highlighted in bold for person household and then finally the request was to include Texas Workforce Commission information on the Innovation and Opportunity Act eligibility requirements and this is also for the Dallas Board in the state and this is what Workforce Development Board used for this particular grant program you'll see again as the number of persons in the household increases so this that as you go across and again for member household is highlighted just so you can get an idea and again the sample estimates from other cities came in between 11 and 15 so one of the things that we discussed the last time in February was the evaluation matrix and how we wanted to include it so the evaluation matrix can be utilized as an internal document or as an exhibit to the policies staff recommends if we do include it we do it in the same manner that we do our application so that we can update it as needed particularly for clarification so that both parties understand it we notice that when we did our application the first time options and staff recommendations concerning the policies and the documents that support the policies the EDP board can recommend the incentive policies and incentive evaluation matrix with the proposed changes from the board and council to City Council and then this also this board can also make a recommendation to include items exclude items or provide other direction concerning the incentive policies and incentive evaluation matrix in the board's recommendation I'll be happy to answer questions review items go back over items like I said you have the three different tables at your table with goals hourly and annual wages if you flip it on each side okay great information to digest any questions of Erika if you want to make a recommendation to council the recommendation was made during council council requested additional information you're receiving that additional information first this particular board is picked for their specialties in economic development aviation and the like so if you'd like to make a written recommendation I think that would be wonderful we provided different information as well as cost to help aid you in that process so the recommendation is to repeat from the City Council is that the lowest to receive incentives is $15 and the average and highest $21 right one is to encourage and that was at 21 and that would be under our priority considerations and you could do that make a recommendation for that you can make a recommendation for the minimum threshold requirement remember this would be a requirement of $15 or any other you can make a using these tables are using the comps that I provided you could come up with another thing in addition to the living wage that's the more more of a discussion item what we also want to talk about the two additional creative nicks as well so we would be recommending like I said what presented here or some other version of what's presented here at the board's discretion sorry no there was quite a bit of consensus for living white and Jesse can correct us if we're wrong that that was one thing that we received from council another member requested the threshold I don't know that anybody else commented on it but it's it's something that we can definitely discuss I don't recall consensus for the threshold I think it was definitely a conversation and we like to incent businesses that are bringing good good-paying jobs all that kind of stuff I don't I don't recall consensus for a for a threshold there was a consensus for more math more than because the numbers that were thrown at the council meeting were numbers you might read the newspaper or back at the cocktail back in the envelope not this level specific the main thing we asked more was somebody who knows how to do this map do this map and tell us what living wages are I think my concern would be the threshold of $15 when we're comparing to Dallas at at 11 I mean the cost of living I would argue might be less than Denton and just I don't know encouraging the activity right encouraging us being able to offer incentives to companies if you're a startup that just may not be possible I mean this is a inflation may totally change that conversation I just would hate to have a threshold where you're meeting so many other benchmarks and for you know Austin I guess just Austin and Dallas don't feel like the best comparisons to Denton and if Dallas is saying 11 so anyway I'm glad to hear that there was not consensus around the threshold that would be my concern to your point the median wage you can see here and then HUD used a basis off the median wage for the Dallas MSA it's much higher it's 89,000 point I mean Amazon starting weight for hammers is 15 so you're 15 this is 12 so if you turn away one of those companies because I mean I mean it's just a percentage of the point but I mean to your point even well-established companies now the man's driving their salaries up but you know part of this now that's not what that's what hammers are getting those are great I know it would exclude you and see I know that our threshold that's not 15 what an individual right I think that's a pretty I agree with you I think it's a pretty hard requirement all right and depends on what your business model is does that really need it it may not it doesn't add flexibility to those that may have a really good idea and potentially can grow their business one is encouraging one is a right department I would agree I think if we put something in there to encourage it you know to say hey we get some additional credit if you do meet these thresholds but they just put it as a hard no if you're not here you know I think you know growing up my dad was a forklift driver right there wasn't any forklift jobs in Denton when the Dr. Pepper plant shut down you know made a road he had to drive to Fort Worth you know to get a forklift driving job you know so I just don't think that should just be a hard no I think we should encourage people who do offer higher wage and jobs but I don't think you can just totally exclude because there are people who need those jobs we decide to encourage using $21 an hour is what we want to encourage or do we want to encourage another it's pretty hot that's pretty hot a question so my family is five people to two working adult three school-aged children and we have you know the daddy provided kind of gives us ranges you know all different family makeups are single individuals where they could fall on what kind of what MIT's calculator I guess defines as a living wage or what income levels they have to be at to qualify for certain benefits but you also highlighted the family of four and I know that's the traditional thing we do right highlight that family of four but I'm thinking about Amazon handlers I know any number of Amazon handlers and exactly one of them is part of a family of four the rest of them tend to be younger or lower skill level or living on their own just anecdotally those the people I know Amazon handlers so how how should we look at this family of four because I know when the council sees the data some council members are going to go all the way to the left end of the thing what is the highest number I can justify and build a case around from the table others will look and say well family of four that's the thing we use and what's that what's the number I can justify make a case for based on a family of four and others will say one adult zero children that's who we're really blaming for we can't figure out how many kids everybody's got we're building a case around what one person needs to make as a living wage so I say all that just ask the question can you tell me about family of four why we zero in on that and do we have data to support that we should keep zeroing in on a family of four have naturally did it highlights family of right so for continuity the family of four was highlighted I looked at one as well personally for all of them so you can see one in four here with the Texas workforce one in four with HUD and then one in four here as well because yeah there are a lot of single parents that it may have one or two children but how instigated when you download the chart they highlight the families work kind of falls along with what my understanding the family of four is that's the way we've always done it right so the feds stick with family for because that's our base unit of a family is there any industry data on the workforce today tends to be a huge range right most working adults are supporting one other non-working we have a whole lot of data but I can't pinpoint the household that and not that I can't try but off the top of my head now we can certainly look well it may not it's just such a range in the workforce it may not be helpful or it may not exist I'm just not I'm not sure I'm not sure the family of four thing helps me in my thinking it may be very helpful other people that's not specific in how they've written it right I think it's just a data point right it is a data point the eventual council approval will be built around one of these data points yeah we should make a recommendation I think it would be very helpful to the council discussion if whatever whatever this body kind of comes to a consensus and feel like it's an appropriate number for we encourage you after we've decided there's not a floor we encourage you and you get extra points not big break in the bank extra points but some extra points at this level the council threw out a council member threw out the $21 the rest of the council kind of said oh okay let's keep talking so they need direction we need direction for people who know what they're talking about economic development partnership board is advisory board so I think would be good given them the makeup of this for to make a recommendation because we are town has two institutions in it well I don't know the makeup of unity as well as TWA you know you're talking a lot of first generation a lot of have multiple children who put in the way through school the only industry only industry we can't just have anyway we can't just have food services be the only place to work with themselves through school so I'm arguing that may not be for a long term but for a period of time yeah they may be Amazon driver or packer or hammer or UPI is safe should be closed off to that option because you can't just be on food service well it's right now it can't just be that let's open those other industries the exact work to ups in the mornings they pay for my tuition and my books you know from 330 in the morning so to your point I'm exact example of that so I don't think we want to just say let's let's cut it off because we think and how many businesses right now in our community would not meet that threshold I think we would be surprised to go oh my gosh we would just we don't want to discourage our Amazon Walmart those kind of places are all forming programs in which they continue to beef up on like what ups and stuff did to educate their people and get them on out and they're doing partnerships with UNT and the other universities community colleges and you we don't want to bury artificial barriers up to those two because they're all intended to promote those people getting degrees and finishing which is I think I would be opposed to a threshold for all of these reasons because it's so inhibiting and think about a company like uber you know if the bit of work it's like that's a hard threshold even manage it's kind of depends on how many hours that person wants to work that week and so if I think I mean if they're looking for a recommendation I would I would say and encouraging a little livable wage makes more sense what that is I think is Erica's I'm looking at the matrix I have just a quick question one of the score sets is increased high-wage jobs and it defines that has significant which is kind of nebulous significant percentage and then two down is the conversation around living wage and those are the base salaries of each or not so it feels like we're maybe double counting well high-wage job is gonna have a different threshold than a living wage and so the high wage would be something we would consider incentivizing with a job-based grant okay so that's gonna be very different the this one's on this one the other ones on the other one encouraging a living wage would be for all employees all of the new employees and so that would be different so that would be the base employees versus we wouldn't consider incentivizing those we can incur we can request two different things but one we would incentivize with a job-based grant and one we would not I think another thing we need to think about is we don't know what benefits those companies offer how much health insurance are they paying how much you know what kind of continued education you know somebody could say yeah I got a 15 dollar an hour job but we could provide the minimum health insurance and we don't provide any continued education or you got somebody that pays less but they may pay college tuition or books or may say we pay a hundred percent of your health insurance those are decisions as business owners we have to make annually so I think it's hard to justify you know pressing just a hard number and then we're getting into okay what's the value of those benefits to try to get up to that number that's gonna make y'all's job really hard to be able to justify those things the total compensation yeah I mean because if you just say this is our rate well okay we have in this market when people decide to take other jobs you know or leaving our business or we're recruiting people we don't just say an hourly rate we put a whole compensation sheet together to explain you know 401k we participate in that you know those are all things that come come into effect so if you just put a hard line on that I think okay fine I'll pay that but we're not gonna give any health insurance or give the minimum health insurance you know I think we get into those games at that point rather than going let's let businesses do what they do any other conversation I just I just want to offer that you know there's this in itself creates some fallout as it works through you know we're as an employer as the school district you know we have workers that we're working through to making sure that the wages are where they need to be and you know you're all for trying to make sure you have you have you know living wages and things for people to come in and give incentives for those that come with us at the same time that that would be price increases that would be a lot of other things that will happen all along the way with for those those expenses get passed along to people and you know I don't know what the city's you know starting wages as for some of their jobs I know what the school districts are we're not to that level I don't know what North Texas and to the view is to those pieces so now you start adding in other expenses of the trading people around and HR factors and other pieces are playing into that that that while we may have the best of intention to have that some kind of a some kind of a number there there is a big ripple effect that impacts the taxpayer that doesn't have anything to do with this especially whenever you can only grow a certain percentage in your city taxes in your school district taxes with your employees and how those things work and come together and next thing you know I don't have bus drivers to pick kids up 145 of those that I need because they can go drive a bus for Amazon and make 25 hours an hour because we put some kind of something into play something I think we have to look at it in a more holistic way of how all that impacts our local economy with regard to price structures and business and the number of people that people actually hire and and what that does to the workforce just in general UNTW you or you know they're also state-funded as well so they have those same same revenue things that come into that so I feel like that we as a as an economic development group we have to think about how these decisions impact all those other sectors that are some of the major employers in our community you want that how that whole person comes together so I mean it's just a point any other conversation it's just gonna ask is it telling that you could not find many cities that have this as a criteria does that mean many cities don't have criteria or they don't have this as a protect criteria there was another one I didn't get up here because I wasn't as familiar with I think it was Edinburgh and all the Hidalgo County so there was another one but I was doing some of the major ones and keeping it to three but those were all that I found not to say that there weren't others but from searching some required some encouraged yeah it was different some used MIT as their guidelines you know some use Department of Health and Human Services which actually to the Texas Workforce Commission incorporates into theirs I know it's just one point I mean it's ten points out of how many was just a factor I definitely don't like the requirements I like the encouragement I think $21 is too much and given exactly what you said from an economic standpoint all it's gonna do is drive up and a lot of businesses that are not even close to that I don't know I guess and the other considerations could that not be part of the other considerations or it has been okay then when it comes time for council to vote on these things for certain council members that's been a part of their calculus and it just always has been as long as they've been asked to answer that question what you're seeing now is that same consideration that certain members vote you're seeing that same consideration bubble up to the top and and now they're asking for it to be a part of the evaluation matrix a council member that said that said that they would not vote for the policy if it didn't include the $15 which that's that's their prerogative but they also said that they didn't do it the last time because you remember we do our policies every two years my question is was there some discussion around some of the things that we brought up today was there some of those discussion the discussion was mostly it seems that this issue has bubbled to the to the top and that there's a consensus for including some conversation of what is the lowest paid person in this organization being paid and and then there's a lot of question about what what is that number if I'm careful to do this because I get two bites the apple right here and I vote again counsel but I think if I think the council's gonna find valuable your feedback about thresholds that's one question answered and the council discuss that and take your advice and and do whatever with it that they're going to the this one I feel strongly this is going to end up on the matrix that this line is going to end up in the matrix the question is going to be what is the EDP think that a fair number is did they think it's a family of Florida they think it's 11 like Dallas they think it's 15 like Austin and what is the was the rationale behind that as employers and people active in local economy what what number do y'all recommend and and why I think the items gonna end up in there regardless and if there's not a recommendation from this group it's probably give me that 21 bucks that somebody threw out there and and and their own rationale thought was a good place to start the conversation well I think our job as a board here is just to give the best boots on the ground advice so when we're in these meetings I'm like okay we're advisory and we're here because our boots are on the ground we're involved in day-to-day things so our job is just to educate and give our opinion at the highest level we can and so when I look at anything we say that's the point that I try to come from and I think you know Jamie brought up some some good points that I don't know we're discussed at council if we do this up you know what does that do to city jobs what does that do to our ISDs and our colleges I don't know if that was discussed to talk about how do we truly you know combined total pay from 401k and benefits you know I don't know if those discussions were had there and and then what is our average today so our job is to ask those questions just to spur thinking right and then may come up with some recommendations but but I hope what we really do rather than say hey this is a number that we just spur thinking and say these guys are on the ground in involved in this daily that's what I would hope that we can provide the most value to you guys I agree and I think that's I think that is helpful I think that's what that's what the council should should want from advisor group I can tell you the response from majority the council to the things you just said are everyone should be paid more everyone's compensation should be higher costs are going up everyone base level all the way up to the C-suite everybody well not the C-suite but the response from the authority council right now would be thank you we appreciate the C-suite perspective that you've given us now we think everyone of the low ends be making more regardless of industry regardless of family situation all that stuff that's the respect this is what and then it will never be enough and to be completely fair I mean completely fair that folks the council majority they are aware of the things you're talking about they read the newspaper just like we all do their experience of the inflation just like we all are and they are they are aware of the things that the complex web of things that produce grocery store prices and gas prices and all that kind of stuff their policy perspective is that people people the low end should be paid more and the minimum wage is too low that the city should be involved the order heard they should be involved in sending anybody who has a lowest earner in their organization is below a certain threshold that sort of talk through that question that's the prevailing perspective on the council right now I guess the question is how do we measure that right when these people come in for these incentives is it a full compensation package for is it just whatever their paycheck so that be a discussion that I would recommend and for us I would just say hey you know we give the best recommendation we can then honor and respect our elected officials that that you know I think we have to be honest in what our opinion obviously don't have evokes on an ex officio member but we work with both sides of the equation we work with employers and we work with employees and I think please point is very valid in that we look to attract and retain talent in the community and one part of that is we know companies are going to incentivize employees we want them to stay and part of that is looking at their total compensation and so attracting and retaining talent what is the total employee experience and so whether it's a living wage or the fact that they're treated well as an employee that's something that is hard to very much so pinpoint on a spreadsheet do they get a great experience when they go to work I don't know how many points you can give to that are they treated well as an employee do they have an opportunity for continuing education or continuing yeah and that is not something that we're ever going to be able to put on here and so that's something that is an advisory committee we figure out do they have a 401k are they not jumping for 25 cents to leave Peterbilt to another manufacturer because three generations of their family work there that's not something we can figure out how to pinpoint but when we talk about choice employers we look at total compensation based on their total experience at a company and I think that's just something as an advisory committee we look at we look at the total experience as a company but living wages a factor into that but there's no way to put their total experience point value so Jesse that's a good point but $21 on average is much much too high for the average small business or anybody trying to expand anyone trying to that's the exercise it's trying to grow your business that's why you didn't even say that but I think it does go back to your point is typically the people who are in maybe the lower wage area is someone who is single starting out and maybe it's not the poor person full family this right maybe is I don't know if living wages of 21 is really right this is not a lot of data points to where I didn't pick it ever you know just to Aaron's point and I'm gonna belabor it but it's also about the talent that's here you know I mean you know you put some incentives in place based upon an hourly wage or threshold or whatever I mean the the relocation the person is thinking what talents already there and if the talent that's there is not worthy of a of a $21 threshold or something like that we're not coming so you have to think through the talent that's here that you're going to be going from you know we've got to put out good people at TWA, UNT, NCTC, ISD for workforce development and that whole piece and are we putting our resources into that so that you know if you're going to come work here the talent you're getting is worth $21 an hour I mean we have to think through that whole piece it's not just a you know a matrix with regard to that because the the talent you get and the talent when you relocate are they migrating somewhere else or they coming here because of the people that are here where are we with that and you know it's a those are those are big questions to have at the council level too about who who's actually doing that and where is that coming from and to your point about are we going to turn away a Tesla, Amazon, a Google based upon a threshold there I would say no I think they're coming because the talent that's in the region you know and and it's not it's not only the way the way it's going to take care of itself as we work through the talent piece of the employees that are working in the company new organizations right you know the other part about that I would argue that if it's $21 on Austin that's like $8 here I mean completely in all honesty with regard to just for my housing it's very different very different so in an effort to move us forward I hear you saying if we don't make a recommendation then this is what how it's gonna blow the case around whatever number feels good to them and they're gonna stick it in there and that's where it's gonna go I'm just gonna throw something out and let y'all respond to it so what if we made a recommendation around just if I was trying to build a case for support a encouraging a living wage of $11 I mean that is at least mirrors Dallas right for the incentive only with consideration for a total compensation package I mean we measure you know of course we have to measure French so I could tell you what a total compensation package is but depending on how any CFO at any given company measures wage and French they may not be able to evaluate that so but you know right we're each writing that in as a consideration there's my suggestion I'll give you the exact numbers so Austin was an even 15 San Antonio was $11.68 and Dallas I'm sorry Dallas was $12.19 they were using MIT and San Antonio's using Department of Health and Human Services and then Edinburgh was 15 so it's that range from 11 thank you so the proposed language is to encourage a living wage for all employees $11 based on Dallas so now based on San Antonio that we have comparable data for and they were using MIT it was a different year because they were adopted on a prior and these were just the most current that was available for each of these tables counseling any feedback on that I I'm going to refrain from offering feedback on a number because again I'll get I'll get a vote and I'll get to speak to my colleagues about it I think what the council needs is y'all's unbar I tried to give you some context I think we need your unvarnished opinion about that number because that's going to be the thing that we spend the most time on I think when this comes back okay so we do have a proposal conversation around it okay we can take it to vote then can we also can I get direction on the makes is everyone okay with the two additional creative makes the council because we can support that as well in the motion just wanted to make that little point so I don't know if I like the idea of comparing to San Antonio like the Dallas area may better so if we can just adjust that to lease the Dallas not and Dallas was 1212 19 is that is that in 21 yeah is that 20 they were they were citing MIT but it was an earlier version of this so just like we do they adopt every two years so this is 2020 well the HUD says 2021 this is the most current MIT I didn't I wasn't able to match it up so I'm assuming it was prior okay I mean if you're making your decision of a number based upon two-year-old data which has probably been increased at least three or four percent here it's like six percent over two years minimum or maybe when you're off I mean that was sourcing MIT MIT for one adult 1401 is your children right because I think that this is starting at right in your feet wet growing person in the organization that's the lowest paid person makes whatever this number is and you're eligible for the points you know some points and that's total compensation the way it's written is is just wage encourage a living wage for all employees new product new jobs earn an annual base salary of 21 hours but is the way it's written right now if you just said that another number then it would not be total compensation it would just be hourly wage or annual base the closest on living wage would be to adult zero children at 1132 to Dallas is 1219 we also have 1260 popping up a couple times here two adults with two children on the poverty wage and one adult with three children so just for the record since we are required I'm not saying that I believe that there should be less wages I'm just saying from the incentive perspective I would hate for it to be an infuriating factor I don't want to go down as the girl that said we should hate people less that's not what I'm recommending you know maybe it's I mean it's a point system right it's a range maybe the range is between minimum wage in the living wage and the points based off of that there's ten points available in that category yes between the minimum and the living as just a thought the closer you get to whatever that MIT living wages that year the more points you get maybe because it should fluctuate from year to year right we don't even know the most for information so yeah dollar well this is the most current information available I think Dallas was using a prior one just cuz that's when it was adopted all three of these data tables are current information taken from their website using zero children or to reference MIT but they didn't yeah but no so we're true saying did you get full points if you're at the 21 you get zero points if you're left yeah and again I'm trying to figure out something and I'm trying to figure out where the 21 really came from I'm just I'm just use that as a member sure right it was a number of council members suggested yeah that's why we got the table all right do you want to make it a motion no I was getting conversation I'm hearing a range between 725 and then Dallas is 1219 I also heard a range of in your recommendation 725 to that 21 well no I don't know where the 21 came from that's not part of the MIT nowhere here because you would have to pick and I don't know what we're relevant family or for or a single person which one is relevant to what would represent what we want in this community all right what would we want for the lowest weight of the organization right yes what yeah it's a recommended if you do the range make make a recommendation to council what do you if the floor for this point range for just this one line on the matrix is going to be minimum wage at 725 and or just minimal wage and the ceiling or the what the aspirational what we want you to approach to get your full 10 pick up take a spot on the MIT or you pick a spot on the HUD and just that's the one that we think is best fits the profile of our lowest wage earner in the organization or an organization that we'd want to insect I mean I kind of like the language of picking one of these labels rather than picking a dollar amount so between minimum wage and poverty wage and then poverty wage allows you to pick how many in the size of family like that I did but I don't think it's ever gonna get a problem I think they're gonna want a hard number to say this is what I mean allows it to update if minimum wage updates right exactly you have to be that would be my argument and that's as MIT updates on an annual basis it's so then you're not talking about dated information like from Dallas so he used those and the point range days with whatever that definition is yeah I think it would be awkward this is probably semantics but we're talking about living wage and then we have minimum wage tied into it and minimum wage is identified as less than poverty on some of this right it's just depending on the size of the family so need a motion this will be a motion to recommend the council this policy with the change to the matrix which which which box on the matrix is the bottom well the bottom sounds like a minimum wage no no I say the worker worker and again I go back to church hypothetical long-term experience young single-adult coming in we're trying to target right for that worker because we already got a space for the other one right for higher wages or whatever right experience right so we've utilized that as well so is this an entry-level worker it's whatever the whatever the lowest paid lowest paid a person the organ which is my idea is this single person demographic no yeah single person no children that's kind of what you base set up off it's just a thought one one adult zero children yeah I got your entry-level person that this is trying to target and what their wage is you're the other parties were you're having discussion point over something that I could be points for the matrix yeah I mean bottom line is what's the what's the what's the bottom dollar that they're gonna get zero points for is what you're that's what this conversation right so I mean really it ought to be you know we're going to start a certain number of points when you get at this at this threshold I mean anything below that you're getting zero whether it's eight hours an hour or nine hours an hour or seven hours we're talking one line out so if we said from 10 to 10 to 20 you know I mean that gives you points at 10 and the ice is 20 I mean I'm not I don't know we're talking one line I do think the the comment around this being something you don't have to revisit you could just make reference to the table rather than to a dollar amount so we could say working zero children to working three children as the range and you still have the dollar doesn't mean that you just have to reference right our matrix to get what the dollar is so they have a reference to what the dollar is so in other words you're you're basically your bottom part might be you want to be living wage me that's what the rest of the document says right yes so your point might be one adult zero children living wage is didn't be considered for points which were maybe zero or one right all the way to two adults two children in 1931 we're currently right so it's just one adult zero children to two adults two children on the MTT living wage calculator for Texas to your point 14.01 to 19.31 if I'm hearing you correctly the zero child living wage to the two adults both working two children that's in both okay but I think you mentioned the numbers and that's good so we know what we're looking at but I think that the motion is for this box to that box so from one from point a on on the matrix to point B whatever the matrix is for any given unit it's referencing the tool and not a dollar or Jill Jester will be I don't want any way not got a move so we approve this policy with changes to the matrix referencing MIT living wage calculator as a range of one adult living with one adult zero children living wage to two adults two children living with yes and yes all right okay I just proposed so really you're saying 14.01 to 3075 two adults if you're looking at it does say two adults two children with only one of them working both working we got two adults both working two children motion or second second Jimmy all right any other discussion answers no all right all of all in favor say aye any opposed hearing done that's what we'll take forward that was easy that was good that's what the group is for that was good conversation that was good feedback and advice and real all right any other agenda items to be brought forward Erica for our you need interest of time I think we can you can read them at your leisure and we do not we did not have US aviation next month okay any other from the group all right if you can you have turns right no we don't we need one more all right everyone thank you for your patience this meeting is adjourned