Nov 07, 2016 City Council on 2016-11-07 11:30 AM

This yeah, that's still this morning agenda item 1a receive a report hold a discussion and provide direction regarding current city of Denton facilities And how to proceed with planning for future needs. Thank you mayor Pro Tem I'm gonna call on Mark Nelson. Well Mark's gonna our director of transportation, he's gonna have some open remarks and then introductions of our consultant Thank you Howard. Good morning mayor members of council or mayor Pro Tem I should say do appreciate the opportunity to visit with you about an important Issue and study that staff's been involved with over the last several months. You may recall a number of months ago actually last year and then again at the At the council retreat staff came forward to visit with you about future facility needs specifically to take a look at the 2002 facility study that was completed by HOK and presented to presented to council in 2002 2003 timeframe Essentially from that from the direction we received it from council at that point in time was to go back look at that facilities study and bring information back to the council in terms of What what information is still? valid Take a look at the recommendations that were in that facilities plan See where we might go to lead us to 2026 So what we essentially did is went out and hired Nelson Morgan architects a local firm here in Denton to help with a group of Denton Denton staff members to go back through and look look through that study visit with all the departments and four of our primary facilities, which would be City Hall City Hall East City Hall West and then the service center and then bring that information back to To the consultant Nelson Morgan and work through that verifying Verifying current staffing conditions future needs so on so forth. So really what today is about is is for Nelson Morgan to walk through that through that study that they performed on our behalf and And really walk away with an opportunity or look at some recommendations from that review and And see where we might go For future facility needs to take our organization and not only forward in 2016 But certainly in the 20 2026 timeframe with an eye on how to finance and fund that would be essentially looking at the the 2020 bond Bond program so Alan Nelson with Nelson Morgan will walk you through that and then kind of look at we'll look at some next steps and and Timeline how we might back into that. So with that I'd like to introduce Alan Nelson To help us with this with this project Thanks Mark Well, good morning still is just barely and we're glad to be here This is hopefully gonna be the last time that will take you through this whole little PowerPoint presentation but what we want to do like Mark said is Kind of show you where we feel like the city is right now in terms of growth The the master plan that HOK did in 2002 was was a good master plan to start with but obviously it was really only designed to go up through about a ten- year horizon and there's been Many changes that have taken place that have affected that in those last ten or actually 15 years since the plan was developed. So As we get started here, I want to point out these are the ones that we worked with That was really the steering committee with the staff Everybody's I think everybody's accounted for today except John's not here. I don't know He may decide he wasn't gonna watch Sit through it one more time. But anyway We started and Reviewing that That master plan. This is the growth that the city's had started out the population growth in Denton in 2000 or 2001 2002 when the Pop when the survey was a master plan was first developed was just a little bit over 80,000 today in 2016 we're Depending on which set of numbers we look at somewhere around a hundred and thirty thousand in population and in the next ten years where we feel like we 're going to be is Somewhere just shy of about a hundred eighty thousand so you can see the growth is really taken off a lot of the planning that was set up and developed for Ten fifteen years ago just isn't the isn't current anymore isn't that won't really apply That's been proven by just looking at the University of North Texas enrollment. They've had from 2001 up through 16 Their numbers have really escalated very well TWS actually really done on a percentage basis. They're actually growing better They're all local here in Denton. That's one of the key things keep in mind just with you with TWS growth That's all Denton a lot of the UNT growth some of that UNT Enrollments actually taking place in Dallas and then fourth and a couple of the campus areas But point is a growth is happening. It is coming on in the 2002 master plan If you've read through it if you've looked at it It was basically set up in three parts the first part was the assessment of the current facilities this building and really all the other facilities in Denton and Then from that they took surveys and they did a lot of work to develop that original Ten year planning horizon. So the the HOK master plan Started in 2002 and was really good up through about a 2011 number. That was where their projections were based on They went from that recommendation on out of part one to develop what what was effectively the part two of that report That developed about four major Concept plans how they could expand how what they could do with the master plan with Denton based on their their planning criteria and Out of that the steering committee worked with HOK and they came up with what they just referred to as the hybrid plan And it was a combination of three or four of the the better elements out of each of the different versions and they Devoted their part three of their master plan to a more detailed assessment of how that hybrid plan could fit That's really what we've been doing. We have taken the we've taken that that that part three of the hybrid plan and really looked at it and then Both brought the demographics back up Into our current days and have had to make quite a few adjustments Based on changes that have happened in the in the in the city since then First of all, just point out everybody's aware of it. You 've got a little over 281,000 square feet just in the four facilities that we're looking at right now and every one of them are an aging facility This building right here is 50 years old believe it or not City Hall East 70 years old West which is the old fire station is 90 and then the service center is your newest building out there right now And it's at 40 years old. So you've got some age behind them. You've got some good structure, but but they're tired each one of those buildings gonna require require a lot more maintenance to keep it up and keep it going and as we all know that's getting more and more expensive as we is a Time elapses. We got a question Joey Hawkins not really a question, but I just wanted to state This isn't a crack at Dalton, but City Hall East seems really old but the service center doesn't seem that old to me I just wanted to point that out It was taken as a crack You were leasing what third grade when they East was built Probably and I wasn't too far behind you so okay moving on moving on But basically what what is Has evolved out of the way these four facilities are somewhat Fragmented and split up as we don't have a key facility in the city. There's It's very fractured. It's hard to find the that identity that we really need there's a very inefficient use of some of the spaces in there just Mainly because you're so crowded. You've done a good job with what you've got, but but it's getting to that point of the inefficiencies exceeding the The the benefit of the way you've you've packed in there You've got a decentralized service model and we'll use that the word re-centralized and decentralized a little bit here in the presentation today just to show you where where you are and where we feel like we can get to and Then there's so much demand on all the all the spaces not only just in the office and just the administrative component to it But you've got a lot of pressure on the council chambers. They're there. They're it's small It really needs to be larger. You've got this room right here, which is one of your better utilized works work areas that Could use a lot more space and in better Environment you got the municipal courts and just other meeting spaces that just everything needs to be brought back into a Back together looked at and reanalyzed for the best best and highest use for it parking at every facility you've got is Let's just say limited it's a challenge and Most of all as I stated earlier just current facilities are just inadequate You just don't have the room for the growth that you need right now. That's where we want to get to In the 2002 master plan and that hybrid that hybrid plan that was adopted There was a few key elements in there Let me just bring you back up to just point out what those were the administrative facility projects that were recommended in that master plan was number one to create a new criminal justice center, which Location wasn't set up it wasn't determined but they were gonna but that recommendation was to move out of City Hall East with the new Criminal Justice Center The second recommendation was to take City Hall East and renovate it To be what was referred to in that as a one-stop-shop Concept they wanted to take most of the administrative activities out of this facility out of City Hall West and in other locations as they were at that time Bring them together over it East and put them there and then there they recommended some really some fairly minor Renovations to take place in this building keep it primarily It's just administrative kind of a minute more of a ceremon ial or a municipal center at that level Also in that master plan was the service center They wanted to they recommended to realign Riddell Street primarily to Create some more space out and around the service center because the congestion and all that's taking place in there in that area and then the there were some recommendations for additional warehouse space and Just doing some things to try and relieve some of the crow ding and to create a little bit more space to Offset that that growth that was coming in there the last part of that hybrid plan, which we didn't really look we don't really address in in this part of the plan update was a decentralized project such as Fire stations they wanted to set up a prototype at a set out at seven Update and I think relocate at the time central fire station and then since then you've also had stations For and now to I believe are the ones that are also being being looked at there was a lot of recommendations in there for the Library for both main to have some expansion on it as well as the north and south branches And then there was the recommendation about the police and fire training center, which is in the planning process right now So there's there's several there's a lot of the components out of the master plan that you followed and are in the process of Enacting which are good, but there's other components within it They just aren't really up to speed and that's what we're going to address and show you how we can shift that so we can get everything back into alignment the goals of what what our firm was doing working with the steering committee was to basically update the Current administrative staff needs to take it back from where it was it was projected from 2002 to about 2011 now we've taken it and it's set up a new baseline at 2016 where you are now today We've taken the space projections and then taken that on through another 10-year horizon. So now we've got a 10-year window of growth and Expectations that we can that we're going to look at There's been a lot of departmental changes the organization and just relationships have shifted changed so that we can 't exactly It's not exactly an apples to apples Expansion is more of a little bit of an oranges in there But but we're going to show you how that that fits together in today in today's organization and relationships and How those changes are going to take place? Again, these are the only buildings we're looking at we're just not we're not going to be addressing the other facilities that aren't within that That are outside of that group in the changes from the master plan at 2002 City Hall East was recommended to move the police and the courts out of that area to a criminal justice center and Create that one-stop shop that just didn't that didn't develop for a number of reasons and you know, it is what it is Which is not a bad thing right now, but it right now you've got obviously everybody's aware of what's over in City Hall East right now There is a tremendous there's an there's an inadequate Parking lack of parking. Excuse me. There we go Over there that's created a big bottleneck and a lot of that's just because the construction and the development that's taking place over there that nobody Really anticipated would happen In 2002 there were some changes that took place the Morrison milling lease is expired now and now you have the entire facility to use Which is it's it's pretty well. There's 99% of City Hall East is is fully occupied right now and under City City use City Hall in this building right here the the Expansion and the recommendations that were proposed in 2002 just can't quite Really be be fully developed the renovation potential in this building is limited and a lot of it is limited just because of the Historic nature of the building the use of it the the style of it but we've got right out here on the north side with the creek in the Floodplain issues. We've got problems on that side to deal with and those two components together add to a Challenge with any kind of vertical or horizontal expansion capability on the on this facility And then at time we've looked at City Hall West will just be repurposed at this point I Would just want to say real quick the space standards that we used for this plan are the same Same standards that were used in the 2002 which were part of a Corrigan study done back in 1991 Those numbers are still very valid today. They're a few of them. We buffed up just a little bit to kind of clean them up because the technology has made some shifts in some of the sizes and the areas that we we allocate for different activities but for 90 by 95 percent or more of those standards Everything stayed the same which was good because we knew we were comparing the same spaces then What we did as we developed and identified a need for space we used two multipliers We used it was the same multiplier in both cases We used a one point three multiplier if if we knew that we needed a thousand square feet for Internal offices in a department we added one point three Multiplier on that to come up with internal circulation for just hallways and closets and Spaces internal within that department and then as we took that number and added it into a whole number to come up with a gross square footage for the for planning purposes we used another one point three multiplier which takes care of outside corridors like outside the glass here Stairways circulation restrooms and those kind of those kind of spaces mechanical spaces that are necessary for the building So that's where our numbers so in some cases we'll be talking about net number some cases we're talking about gross numbers, but we try to keep them in balance so you get a You understand where we're coming from as we make those recommendations We're gonna start here with City Hall East I'm gonna try to run through that real quick Everybody's familiar with it. So I'm feel like I'm kind of preaching to the choir a little bit here It's a very full building right now. I said a while ago. It 's 99% full and it is there's about 146,000 square gross square feet in that building 134,000 on the ground and and then the upstairs Component down on that West End this little drawing right here shows just really what's on the west half of it Really is just there to show you how full that that really is Then the east side we've got which is primarily all the police department on the East end of the building with the exception. There's about a 10,000 square foot area that facilities still occupies for It's just kind of a raw storage space right now It's the old dock area that Morrison Milling used to use when they were leasing space from you But that's that's what's out there at City Hall East right now We've we've looked at it. We with some of the concept shifts and all that we've identified about 21,700 square feet of space that we can free up in there that we can use that to our good for some additional planning purposes The City Hall East is as it's set up right now in 2001 that's the left-hand dashed line and then the one on the right side is 2016 The horizontal line represents where the the real capacity on that building is right now just based on if It's full we know it Based on the available space. That's what that's what's there but in the original master plan the the left hand half of that that red line right there represents the the staffing that they were recommending in the 2002 master plan to take it up from a little over 300 all the way to a little under 500 people in there Best we can tell that that number actually included all the police department and some other Activities that just they never developed but it was part of that recommendation of using City Hall East What we're looking at doing right now in the in further application in our master plan is to take that number back down and get it below the that horizontal line and get it where it's it's a Comfortable to work out of there. We'll get the maximum capacity somewhere about 169 170 people at the 2026 recommendation level Just to show you what's in City Hall East right now There's currently there's these eight major departments that are in there and they take up 99% of the available spaces That's there at City Hall East right now the The four departments that we're proposing we keep at City Hall East is currently good. It's gonna be technology services police department municipal court and the municipal judges areas are their suite They'll they'll take up the the bulk of that space currently in 2026 we're gonna need to Increase that the area that they have already by about 12, 000 square feet. We're gonna add another 67 people That'll come into that mix that'll be Be there in that building as we add those 67 people in that 's gonna overload That building unless we empty out some space and that's where we're coming to right now is our Recommendation initially right now is to let's take out of City Hall East We'll take out community improvement and development customer service Human resources and risk management and we'll take parks and recreation and we'll move those back out and we'll send will Recentralize them to another location By doing that we we free up a little almost 22,000 square feet I mentioned a minute ago. We needed about 10,000 square feet of space for the future growth so what we wind up with is we Will have a hundred twenty four thousand call it a hundred twenty five thousand square feet in City Hall remaining Then we'll add twelve thousand back in for the 2026 growth Leaving us a little under ten thousand feet of available space for any other Expansion that needs to take place over in City Hall in City Hall East for the next ten years That becomes a criminal justice center now based on what we 're proposing It's got with the exception of technology services using a few thousand square feet in there. Everything else is is dedicated now strictly to police courts and Related activities it's going to free up a lot of the space that's over there It's going to relieve a lot of the congestion in the overc rowding Where is that other space going to go? Well right here where what we're looking at right now Is the space diversity that you've got across the city? Currently in City Hall right here. You've got eight different departments that are they're housed out of this building right now You've got a hundred and eight staff in this building right now on our just a full-time basis is What we've got in City Hall right now By 2026 that hundred and eight people are going to grow to a hundred and fifty six So we're gonna add another 48 people right off the bat that we know that just for these eight departments that are in here right now That's going to get crowded as it is City Hall we just City Hall East we just talked about we've got these four Departments that we're going to keep over there which be technology the courts police and judges They'll have a total of about 279 people in that building at the end of 2026 if we don't do something to move folks out of there so part of our recommendation is as we recentralize the The activities with City Hall is we take those four departments move them over back here into the City Hall area That number in 2026 grows to this this campus needs to accommodate 296 staff and then we still got the component that we're dealing with right now and over at City Hall West which Is the current currently in the process of moving there's about 68 full-time staff over there. They're going over to the old Dacu Facility to be that development center But by 2026 that number is going to grow from 68 by to another 94 or by up to 94 And that's going to put the full number at City Hall at about 390 people That's a lot. We're going from 108 right now to about 390 in the next 10 years as we bring everybody back over here How we do that? Let me show you Here's your staffing projections right now 2001 2016 That's what was projected with the original master plan because they were taking everything out of here and moving it over to City Hall East they were taking the They were creating that one-stop shop over on Hickory Street, which We know is full right now with police with the courts with everything that's over there right now There's not room to accommodate that one-stop shop With the way our staffing recommendation is set up right now We're going to bring the numbers on this location back up to about 300 and little over 340 in the in the next 10 years and But but that's doable and I'll show you how that works here in just a moment Yeah Projections yes that We would be hitting that those projections about now and they were off a little bit probably a little bit over How did you what metrics did you use to? Determine how many employees did you do it per capita? Did you do it per budget? How did you how did you project that the the projections? We did a survey with staff We asked them to go back and look at what where they feel like they are We came up the baseline of where they are right now So we knew what that was and we talked about their projections for the next 10 years Where they feel like they they needed to be? Okay, because we really didn't have any other any other basis to effectively project that Other than going back to the to the actual users sure so then and I might have missed it. I apologize for being late the the number of increased employees from today to 2026 you're estimating at least for the for the purpose of this presentation is that was it how many are you saying in addition? Additional will need in 10 years based upon these these buildings these departments The total number. Let's see Chris. Let me try to remember the the math on that there's Kelly can help me out on that there was 290 on the City Hall East and City Hall plus City Hall West ads in at 68 Yeah, I apologize. I just didn't have it. I don't have it figured out to that way you can get that later I just yeah Trying to understand because we're basing the presentation on the space needs and it'll be based upon everything The space needs are all triggered off staffing. Okay requirements. That's where everything came So it started out we needed to know what the projected FTE numbers were going to be At a certain point in time and then we can translate that into square footages. Gotcha Okay, so that's where that comes from and in these numbers have been we've looked at it two three different ways This we feel like is a reasonable Recommendation for the growth as as they're projecting that to happen. Sure. Yeah, just either at an informal For you. Yeah that yeah, I can get that number for you In the city hall right now kind of well and actually in response to some of your question here You're at 108 right now. We're gonna be at 156. That's 48 more and so in our in the total mix that's gonna put the Space requirements for those hundred and fifty six. We need about fifty one thousand square feet of space to accommodate that group Coming out of City Hall East. We've got these numbers right here these departments right here That are currently consists of about 110 people Now we're gonna grow them to 140. So there's 30 more and we 're gonna add those into this mix right here So that's gonna add another 27% to what we need here. So we can add Kelly you can get 140 to that One between the two numbers you just mentioned it's about an additional 75 or 78 or something like there you go and then the the last one of the the last two components that City Hall West which adds in inspections development services and so forth They're currently sitting at about 68 full-time By 2026 that that number grows to 94 And so we add that that on in to into the total City Hall number another 21% and the last little piece that adds in is The recommendations have been that we go ahead in in in this new facility We incorporate a new Emergency operations center and call center bring that back over here Currently those are kind of fragmented in two or three different locations We want to bring that back together and finish that up. It doesn't add a lot of staff What it does add is space a little bit of a space requirement. So there by 2026 it needs to be a net Or a gross number of about 17,600 square feet to accommodate all that space Currently, they're in about seven thousand square feet. They need to be about 17,000 So I just adds a little bit more into the total gross needs so what we've got in 2026 here at City Hall is going to be a need for a total of a hundred and thirty five thousand nine hundred and forty two call it 136,000 square feet That's what we need to be able to accommodate when we get in here. How do we do that? Currently we looked at a it's several sites Locations that were where can we put 135,000 square feet? well The this is a just a map of this area right in here The current City Hall is in that green circle C just to give you a sense of orientation Obviously anything north of us right here is just out of the question because of the flood plains between the flood way the hundred year both of those areas in blue are we can't build in it that's just out of the question and The red area which is a 500 year floodplain does allow us a little more Potential for building in that and that's what we were taking a good hard look at as we were analyzing sites The first site area is directly across the street on the south side of McKinney It is the area where the parking area is now. It's the old tax office Area for those that remember when that was there The advantage is there obviously it's still centrally located site It's got good visibility for for an expansion and growth Construction across the street wouldn't be of any particular major disruption to the operations here on a regular on a daily basis during construction And then it would it has good pedestrian access crossing McKinney Street Disadvantages are the parking component to it if we're bringing 390 people in here. We got find a place to park them and That becomes more problematic than anything right now We really feel like south of McKinney Street is a better location for some high density parking than it is for the facility itself and it also Would eliminate the the separation with the with the street creating that that separation between campus facilities The second location that we looked at was the 301 McKinney site Which is the old County jail the old County annex building that I know it's on the agenda a little bit later this this morning We looked at that. It's got several advantages to it. It's it is South of most of the floodplain It's adjacent to obviously adjacent to this City Hall. It's got good pedestrian access and It fits in with that campus concept as a location There are some floodplain mitigation issues with it, but not as significant as other of these other sites The horizontal buildable area is a little bit limited but vertical is obviously not and then the Downside would be some construction congestion but that just takes place as we know in living in Denton construction is inevitable and it can and the congestion from that just Is the way of life right now? City Hall is the This location right here Everybody every time we've brought this presentation up. We 've talked about it. The question comes up. What about here? How much can we expand on City Hall? I'll show you that in just a minute There are the the same problems we talked about on on site B with the With the flood flood issues and some negatives there, but this is this is the home This is what everybody recognizes as being City Hall and it still will remain that that municipal center the disadvantages somewhat out of expanding right here on this spot do outweigh the advantages but But those can be mitigated as we'll show you here in a moment and then a fourth location we looked at was over on the corner of Locust and McKinney just really it's where the post office sits and That site is got It'd be a fantastic location to look at for some additional space However after having done some further vetting with the Postal Service and all that that's pretty much off the table now that's not a It's really not a strong Possibility that we'd ever be able to pick up that property So we're not going to spend too much time talking about the the post office location. Here's our concept implementation Here's how we feel like we can do what we're recommending to do number one We want to create another a new one-stop shop The idea that was introduced in 2002 was a good idea. The concept is good. We need a key central facility We need to bring everybody back together. It's just that it didn't work where it was proposed in in its City Hall East What we want to do is reuse the City Hall this facility right here to the highest and best use that we can Continue to keep it there. There's currently about 35,000 square feet in this building Just put that in your in your hip pocket for a second just for for areas and understand what size that is Out of this 35,000 square feet we've got about 7,000 feet that are dedicated towards the City Council chambers to the conference room that's downstairs below it and some of those spaces those are more municipal or public areas so we can't really use that as administrative or or true office expansion areas But we can with the north office wing the section that we 're in right here There's about 12,000 square feet of space along here the west wing over there on the around the corner almost another 10,000 square feet of Available space and then the balance of the area in this building is just taken up with circulation and restrooms and so on so forth we can do that we maintain the Part of our recommendation is going to be that we'll maintain some Unassigned areas in this building just for growth and for some future use that we feel like will come up, but we don 't have it Identified yet. Yeah on the on this building in the concept plan is The plan to leave the council chambers the same. I mean if we're planning for It's almost a 40 or 50 percent growth in employees from what I was thinking and expansion of population I mean we've already outgrown that on many occasions So is the is there a plan to expand that or why is that not going over to the other building? I mean That is that too premature. It's not premature I'll get to that here in a second to explain it But the answer is it remains as a as an assembly space for but for other purposes It will not be the council. Okay council gets a new space. Got you. Okay, because obviously you've outgrown that Yeah, but what what the city needs is a space about that size for training purposes municipal You there's other pressure on those kind of spaces. Okay, so you guys like you're gonna somewhere later on in the okay Yeah, we're not going in a way by any means And Get back on track here Just the ballot. Okay, and then the balance of the space in 2000 in the 2026 out of the 35,000 feet that are here in City Hall We're we're gonna be able to use about 17,000 feet of that towards What we need in other words, that's gonna leave us about a hundred and eighteen thousand square feet that we need to supplement We need to find another place for that that balance of space So the recommendations we have for City Hall right now is we're getting recommend we keep this north wing As an office and administrative space, we're gonna move some other departments into it. I'll talk about that here in just a second The council chambers going back what you're talking about that that's good space right now for training for assembly space for For other uses but not necessarily as a council chamber. So it'll have some light modification, but it'll still remain as a good space like that There are some nights where our chambers are still like less than half full. I'm barely even half full So I don't know that we've completely outgrown that space just wanted to make a comment Well, I would agree at today's no, but I think as in the next ten years and with the other growth that's gonna take place That's probably gonna be more common The area that I talked about a while ago about not ded icating a use for it yet We need to keep a little free space right now for other uses and right now we're gonna recommend it There's a that nine thousand six hundred square feet over on that west Wing we just leave that available right now. Just kind of put that in our In our back pocket, so we've got a space for growth as as it may come up Everybody is a said a while ago We always get asked about what about the plans to expand this building right here. What was what was done? Well, we've done a little bit of research to try to find that out apparently in January of 1967 just as the plans for this the basic construction drawings for this building were being completed This drawing right here was generated. It's got the date stamp in January This building was the plans were finalized on this building in April of 67. So this happened Shortly before that time, but it's also identified even from O'Neill Ford's office as being a tentative expansion plans They just showed at some point they developed a drawing to show what it could look like if it was to be expanded and made a larger structure for Whatever reason we don't know the history behind that but we have gone back and look had an engineering engineering firm Recently within the last few years do some analysis on it to try to determine what could be done as far as expansion on this building What they came up with and what they determined was apparently in the jet in that January 1967 Drawing this area. That's kind of the green area is The space that would have been used as a second level second the drawing showed four levels Their preliminary engineering analysis does not support that this could go It cannot be that robust probably can support a two-story structure But the third and fourth were questionable without a lot more invasive engineering analysis to to determine that This footprint right now only represents about 15,000 square feet in in additional space So the real net value and net gain out of that that small an area for the expense to go in and try to Add to the the second level of this building is is really not cost-effective to do that at this time Yeah See I guess potentially if we can go from two stories to three stories, what would that entail? They'd have to get into they'd have to more engineering analysis of what the actual foundations the peers the bearing capacity on that is The amount of reinforcing that was put into them. We've got some drawings of what was what was built here But we don't have a full set and I don't have everything that we need so they'd have to go back in through X-ray there's various techniques they can use to come up with that, but it would take a lot more work Just to come up with whether or not physically it can actually support the weight the second part is and I didn't elaborate on this earlier on that previous slide, but There's there's really no indication where stairwells would be they showed an outside stair on the south side that Obviously an exterior stair is not going to be a ideal situation We don't have a good central core for the elevators and stacking the restroom. So there was a lot of planning that we have no idea what their thoughts were and Probably it that was about the extent of what their their tentative idea on what it could be That's probably where it stopped when they got to that point They were probably told the same something similar to that in 67 that way Would look good, but we're not going to go there And I think that's really that that would be my personal opinion on where that that stopped at that point in time But the proposed space Implementation that we're looking at right here is on this north wing We'd move human resources and Parks Department in there We it's a good fit for their needs for their size and for their activity again We'll keep that west wing. It just is an unassigned space Chris go back to what you asked about on council chambers keep that as a training and some civic spaces Same thing with the basement area down below there. So we net out about that 17,000 feet that we need across the north side for for us reuse on this building now we Will supplement the balance of the square footage that we near the space that we need here Over in the area that was identified as that site B Which is really where the where the old County Jail resides right now on a lower level We'll put roughly recommend about 18,000 500 square feet of space to take care of the emergency ops center call centers and then a lot of the mechanical and Support spaces that need to go in there then on the main level We'll build that one-stop shop where we've got customer service building inspections the council chambers Another room like this another work session room And we'll keep public communications and in a TV area all on that ground floor on that first level then as we Grow build it up because we don't have enough room to put all that 118,000 square feet horizontally will go vertically with another just a little under 29,000 square feet of space will put development services community improvement Fire gas wells economic development, but those activities upon a second level they still have a lot of public interaction They have a lot of community use Not as much as the first floor first levels do but it's still Compact in there with that one-stop shop and then on the top level on a third level Our recommendation is we'll take the city manager city attorney Finance all those departments will move those back up to the top floor and put everybody And combine everybody in that area right there. So basically a three level Expansion is what we're looking at the way that fits together again We'll repurpose the City Hall to pick up the areas across this north side then we'll come in here and over where the old County annex was put in the 118,000 feet of additional space there and then to handle the parking in the staff demands for that area across the street over on the south side of McKinney is we'll put a parking Higher density parking area in there surface lots not adequate for the parking that we're going to need But right now our recommendation is based on the little chart here at the very bottom We're going to need by City code. Well, let me explain by City code We're allowed if we build a hundred eighteen thousand square feet of space We we would be allowed to put in two hundred sixty three parking spaces That's based on four hundred fifty one space for 50 square feet which would not be Adequate we have about 390 people that are going to be on this site What we're recommending is we put a parking structure in that would accommodate that 390 and then add another 50% capacity in there for public use for Just all the downtown and the other activities which round numbers puts that right at 600 Parking spaces that would equate on this footprint to be right at a five level parking structure I'm sure everybody's seen plenty of been in and out of plenty of parking structures. So, you know about how large a five level parking garage can be What that would look like just from a visual standpoint and this is strictly just to give you kind of a sense of how that that impacts into the into the Current urban environment right now. This would be a view looking from probably six or seven hundred feet above the LSA burger probably looking back towards the Towards the area you can see in the upper center part of this screen. That would be the proposed City Hall location just to the right of that would be the parking garage and then Just the other kind of key landmark facilities around there to give you kind of a sense of orientation Yeah How how tall is the building we're in now like the proxim ately do do we know because it's not on the map Yes, Kelly. What was the height of that one? You time at this City Hall right here, yeah just in comparison like oh this one is probably about 18 feet high to the Eve Okay. Now the castle portions a little bit taller, but just About the size of that Okay. Thank you No, another view just since orientation from above the Civic Center again, you can see Three story structure on the right hand side of that screen would be represents where that additional hundred eighteen thousand foot City Facility would go parking garage back on the left side and then you can see the kind of the courthouse and Wells Fargo and a couple of other Landmark buildings back to the back just for a kind of a sense of orientation again Yes, the Civic Center's got a hundred and eighty eight There you go 179 We've looked at so many numbers that dates. I'm just run together Can't get the accurate number for you. Yeah on that point. I know this is just all conceptual at this point But yeah, it looks like the footprint doesn't go into what 's existing Civic Center parking correct? Yeah It's not anticipating taking out what's already there fact me back up just a couple of slides. I'll show you the The the north line where the mouse go there it is the north line of this this area right here is just About on that retaining wall that's back there on the just on the north side of that County annex now We haven't had anything surveyed nothing that accurate but I'd say we're probably within 10 feet of that one way or the other so Answer is we're really not getting into Quaker town into the park by any major amount All right, so Again these are just some views we're not Trying to say on any kind of design look this facility whatever happens on this facility has to match what's What's here the architecture between City Hall Civic Center the library? You've already got you've got a design style already established and it's got to match into that that's just part of the architecture of this campus and the beauty of what didn't got with the Historic nature of these other structures, so it's got to be very compatible structure And I think it can be you know it can be Designed in a way where it it blends right in with the architecture of it. It is taller structure, but it can still be Set up where it blends right right into that councilmember Hawkins. Yeah, can you go back to that? So on the new City Hall facility is there actually a basement then and then it goes one two three yes, okay? Yeah, there would be a lower level. That's mostly that emergency operations center and some mechanical spaces But because of the need to make that that more of a hardened structure It just it's easier to do that down in a you know more of a bunker type arrangement and then City Hall Chambers just on level one ground yes, just on ground floor so you walk in it's all there the Next component I'm going to run through this a little bit quicker. I hope is the the service center. That's a whole different problem then then what we've got here at the At City Hall is as far as a centralized facility. You're almost too centralized out there sir at the service center Originally built in 78 as I said earlier It is your newest building, but it's on 40 years old and it has not really been expanded since you moved into it and Your numbers have grown significantly there's about 70,000 square feet out there, but Keep in mind 30,000 square feet of the service center is warehouse space So it doesn't really even count towards the growth and the need the the space needs that we really need out there for administrative use so You've got about 40,000 feet that you have to work with out there I listed all the different departments that are out there everybody knows who's who basically is is residing out there the challenges out there is you've got a You've got some key functions out there that really Can operate Independently, but they are so packed in that their their ability to operate is is significantly challenged There's poor accessibility for the public to get in and out of there parking is really really poor at the At the out there at the service center space limitations both the material storage side of it space for vehicle parking almost every crew person that Works out in at the service center Really takes up you know, we almost need to allow four parking spaces for them They got their personal vehicle their city vehicle and then almost in each case Those city vehicles have a couple of other Accessories that go with that that we just have to find space for whether it's trailers whether it's Another dump truck or some other piece of equipment But there's a lot of external space needs that there's just not enough room for out there Uh any kind of expansion added to the service center is very difficult because of zoning issues and some other Growth limitations. We got some design problems. Uh, some drainage issues out there that need to be addressed so All those things being considered the service center is a very different different animal out there Built in 1978 or really designed in 78 built in occupied in 80 You've had a very few expansions out there nothing significant to speak of the biggest thing You did was when you took in the old mezzanine out of the warehouse and expanded Purchasing moved out into that area population growth From 1980 when this when that facility was built to today and you can see we projected that population growth on up through uh, 2026 you're going to be you know, it's it it's more than doubled but the space hasn't The service center as far as design capacity, all right that Administrator that 40,000 square feet that's there on the west side of the uh of the Building has a maximum capacity of a just a little under 200 people what you've got in there right now based on the Staff numbers from the 2002 master plan and up to today You're at about 253 people that are out there in the service center right now. That's the growth chart at some point around 2011 Some of those numbers dropped out or actually I don't think they ever really developed that was projections from h. Okay You can almost take a straight line from the lower point to the upper point on that red line But what's going to continue to happen is the growth is going to continue out there at the service center You're already above capacity. It's already full. There's really not any place else to put anybody so as you can see from our Our graph right there at about 2011, uh 2021 We're just showing that that has to cap out. I don't think you can go any further than that But yet the growth is going to continue so that's going to drive our next recommendation Which is to create a new service center to to shed some of the growth that's that's taking place out there right now you've got a An area that is overbuilt and over occupied needs to have some relief both internal space and external space And the best way to do that would be just to move a good component of that out of the way and create some new spaces Currently in service center. You've got water distribution and all those different departments that are listed right there 253 people are out there at the service center right now By 2026 excuse me that number needs to grow up to a total of 317 people and it needs to have 74 000 square feet of available Space for those people that 74 000 is not in this upper number that's shown right up here at the top of the Slide at 70 000. That's the gross square footage of the entire service center But it needs to be the growth of this 40492 square feet which is where what you have available for administrative space The uh the balance of that is just warehouse and that's already there and it's going to have to remain as is So your total growth on the service center with the additional space we need about 74 000 square feet Here's the here's the map of the um, the layout that's in there now. The yellow area is the warehouse Can't touch it. Oh really? We don't recommend touching it. We just leave it as is Currently, but everything on the left hand side in the colored areas. Those are departments that that are there now that are full Upstairs on the second level same thing. We got the uh, the brown and the Blue areas which are primarily engineering and water quick question Companies are up there. Yeah You said you don't recommend touching the warehouse space. Why is that? Not going into not expanding into it. Why is that well the warehouse has to have they need space anyway Right now they're there Our recommendation is is instead of moving into the warehouse And just in having to relocate them is just go ahead and move this this staffing and the space needs back out to the To the second service center location and i'm guessing as it relates to the city hall east warehouse space as well, which is I think 9800 square feet something like that. It would be the same recommendation to keep that as a type of warehouse space and not Repurpose it in some way. Yes. Yeah currently the the almost 10 000 square feet over at city hall east is Is space that the police will eventually take it the way it 's landlocked and the way it's used right now of facilities uses it For their purposes right now, which because it hasn't been finished out, but eventually It's going to grow it's going to be uh have to be given back over to uh To the police and then the city hall east. I guess i'm thinking about the warehouse space at city hall east I'm not familiar with the service center warehouse space, but the city hall east it's like I want to say like 30 foot ceilings. I mean, it's really it 's vertical There's a lot of space and I don't know how feasible it is to add in a second layer or you know Medicine or something where people can work in that space None of the of that space has been analyzed to any level of detail like that that would Really be more of a second phase more of a programming standpoint if there's 10 000 square feet Of space and it's got a full 30 foot vertical component to it. Yes, there's probably is some some opportunity for multi-level type use of it the the downside on doing that in small increments is just like the problem with the with the city hall here is that By time you put in vertical circulation stairs The restrooms elevators and circulation space like that what you net out with is not very much of uh The the net area is not very very much and the cost to To grab that space Uh got so expensive. It just doesn't make much sense to to go that direction Does that make sense? the The only area in the service center that we really identified was just space that we could just sit there and pull somebody out of and relocate them was the area that electric communication uses right now and that's that's really because There's going to be some changes taking place in that department fairly soon That's just going to dictate that they are out of room and they have to have some more space. So Somewhat we're using a little foreknowledge that that space is going to need to get freed up That's not very much area 36 000 3600 square feet out of that entire 40 Uh somewhat thousand square feet less than 10 percent of it is not enough to accommodate the the the true growth that we need Uh for the for the next 10 years This is just for reference here. This is just a site plan of that service center right now The little purple area out there in the center is the existing service center. It's Same footprint's been on there almost from day one for the last 40 years the uh, the little dash line back here on this red on the uh, Right hand side is that expansion of roudel street that's in the planning stage right now. It's it hasn't happened yet When that does occur, it's going to free up the areas in blue for both a future traffic building up in the very northeast corner But then it's going to free up a lot of valuable space for just that material lay down area. So it Releases some of that external congestion that's out there Then back to the south you've got some uh, some more requirements back here fleet services and some other areas are down on the south end of that of that site that That just about run off the slide, but that's the footprint of what you've got out there it's surrounded by neighborhoods the zoning is is uh, difficult screening and a lot of the uh issues with development out in that area are very very It's very much uh, very more complicated than than it is out in a uh, uh greenfield to uh, To do an expansion on and that's part uh again part of the recommendation we're talking about going out to a new location or the Kind of in summary of what we're recommending is let's take to a southwest service center location the Parts of these eight departments right here that would free up Just a little under 40,000 square feet of space demands or space needs over at city hall Currently if if we know that uh, not city halls, uh service center Sorry, if we know that service center is full right now and we can pull Some of that space out of the service center. We're going to free up uh space Our recommendation is in the next 10 years if we can pull the uh, about 60 projected full-time staff that would Otherwise be in service center move them out to a new separate location Creates about a 40,000 square foot space savings at the at the service center And it reduces our total number for what we need at the service center back down to 257 people If you remember when I first started talking about what's at uh service center right now, there's 253 out there So it it basically negates the growth any further growth out there doesn't fix the problem that there's a little bit of overcrowding out there but it does eliminate the need to pack more on top of the of the Crowding that you have out there Service center staffing projections again showed the slide a minute ago if it goes up Is it as growth is projected we're going to be in at uh, 2021 to 2026 We're going to be somewhere over in this area right here We're going to let that continue to grow but we're going to take that additional growth. We're going to move it out to a second location And the after looking at several options here around the city We really feel like the best possible location for that is to take The current service center which is up here in this north kind of the upper part of this slide And just for reference pull it down here into this purple circle or this purple area, which is just off of Vintage boulevard. It's a property the city already owns that there's 88 acres out there It's right next to where fire station seven some of that police and In training facility fire training facilities being planned right now And where that would fit in is we're looking at it right now is just to tuck it in the northwest corner of the property that you have There's a large utility easement that runs diagonally across through there So it's going to limit the ability to to build and expand any permanent structures under that area But there's still room up there on the north northeast of that utility easement to get Plenty of a of the service center expansion in there Go ahead and take care of the public in in staff parking on the upper part of it And then it frees up everything south of there for material lay down equipment vehicles all the different storage spaces that are associated with the With the needs out there at the service center so we've got Plenty of space here. It's a double benefit uh in one sense of Everything that we do out here on the south side that frees up space Is an impact to direct the impact back over on the on the m ingo roadside as well So kind of as a recommendation summary Found this old plan of the city of denton Uh, I think that plan on the left was probably pre 1920s because it doesn't even show the old fire station yet Uh on there. I can't read we can't read any dates on it, but it's an old layout of the city there's a little aerial or part of our 3d model of the Expansion of what that could look like and how the city's expanded But in our recommendations changes from the from the master plan number one. We want to talk about converting the City hall east into that criminal justice center We want to keep technology police municipal courts and the judges chambers keep all those activities over there everything else moves to that centralized, uh Location back over here on mckinney street Benefits there are there's enough there's enough space If we move the other departments out of there that police and courts can can expand into there. There's there's enough room for their uh, for their coexistence there for Uh for the next 10 15 years We begin to separate the administrative and those municipal uh functions so that we we don't have the congestion and the crowding that we have over there right now and Bottom line was in the original 2002 Plan from h. Okay. I don't we don't feel like that would have ever that one-stop shop at uh on hickory street would have ever really worked Uh as it was originally planned just because of the sheer congestion and the fact The criminal judge the police and uh courts never moved out of that area Second component of our recommendation is let's just recent ralize city hall. Let's get everything back over here downtown Get it in an area where it needs to be where everybody recognizes it These are the departments that would be located back over here on mckinney street in the future We would have all the benefits of the one-stop shop. We'd we'd enhance that customer service uh uh idea this could the expansion down here on mckinney would would certainly serve as a catalyst for Uh more high quality and professional employment in this downtown area, which we need It would improve the efficiencies within the all the inter departmental collaboration that takes that needs to take place We'd still be able to keep city hall as the landmark that it is that needs to stay we preserve this historic integrity that City hall's already got from the o'neill ford and all the uh the architecture associated behind that And we'd be able to reinforce that campus concept that that 's already been started with quaker town park and everything else That associates around here by just tying everything back together And we can create a lot more of those public spaces those performance areas we need Uh the just the the all the other secondary benefits that come out of just redeveloping and reinforcing this The site plan right here on this location We'll we're recommending moving the emergency operations center keeping it here getting everything re-centralized right here for the uh for the obvious benefits that that are associated with that The fourth recommendation is to go ahead and and get the the daku or the the The service departments that are they're still decentralized right now bring those back in Let's get rid of these lease spaces that the city's got that they're they're costing more of an overhead than they are a benefit And uh, we can go back repurpose city hall west. There's several activities. There's several uses of it that I think uh could be looked into that would still be of value to both the The city and the uh in the community without having to keep the departments over in that uh in that particular location And then we just want to centralize all the planning services and in in the inspection departments that are associated with that back over here And then one of the the last of of two recommendations is get that southwest service center as soon as we can so that we can eliminate and relieve the overcrowding we have at the service center and back on on this side here is go ahead and get a parking structure that sets up in a way where the where we can accommodate the growth on this property that without impacting the the the campus, uh, the fill of this campus with the Association of the park and all the other pedestrian oriented areas that are around here Let's talk for just a second. Everybody's going to want to know what are the what are our projected numbers for costs? On doing all of what we're talking about All I want to show you right now is a general range of some numbers There's there's another time and place to really talk about how to fund it and how to go about that and how to structure all the the strategic planning of that But we feel like the renovations and improvements we're talking about here at city hall are going to be somewhere in the 50 million range 52 million up to about 59 somewhere like that Is what we feel like would be a reasonable budget number to start, uh our discussions and plannings about That parking garage across the street, although it'll probably come out of some different fund sources and some different, uh Funding mechanisms. We're looking at probably somewhere in the 14 million dollar range for that structure if we do the full 600 uh 100 space capacity the Criminal justice center work that's being recommended out on the east side Somewhere in the four and a half to five and a half million dollar range is about what we would anticipate would take to accommodate that None of that can really take place until whatever happens here occurs so we can start freeing up space I mean, there's a there's a real timing situation with that which I believe Mark's going to come in and talk about the timing here in a minute And then the southwest service center, which is probably the one of the most imminent things we ought to be looking at doing right now somewhere in the 18 21 million dollar range is what we feel like the the cost on that expansion out there would be so With that i'm going to stop About running out of my voice. Anyway, uh, I think mark you 're gonna come up And finish up a couple points here Yeah on the cost estimates are those in today's dollars? Yes, those are today's dollars We're not trying to project anything ahead because we really don't know the timing on that. So uh, so it's Pretty safe to assume that those will probably be different if it's five or eight years from now Yeah, uh could be 10 15 20 percent or something like that. Okay. All right. Thank you Okay, so next step um Kind of what we're looking for in terms of maybe direction with with the council if if indeed this this recommendation is embraced so we'd be looking for council direction on recommendations in in this uh, 2016 update um And then initiate a phase two which would be a further ref ining of what uh, Nelson and morgan has already done You know that might start with uh, you know again we'd expand their scope of uh Of work, but then go out and take a look at some different facilities around the region see what other communities have done to embrace or otherwise to address their space constraints and needs in their community And then that would essentially begin the preliminary design phase of uh, of a city hall facility We want to take a look at uh, southwest service center You know addressing the options there to relieve those existing constraints Uh at the service at the existing service center as well as improving uh service levels By reducing service area by our field service operators And then addressing um Addressing a downtown parking garage question as to whether um we move forward with that in advance of any type of a project here with uh with um city hall so Really the goals kind of line up And into the finance component of it, which would be Looking at the 20 2020, uh bond program and moving forward if we had if we did receive direction Finalizing that conceptual design And then establishing those probable construction costs back to your question mayor what that what would those dollar figures look like in a more refined format as we get closer to uh, to a probable construction if recommended Uh, and certainly a goal would be alleviating the space constraints at the city at the service center and then uh a goal would potentially be doing a parking garage in advance of any type of activity here at city hall simply because uh with the lay down and construction activity There'd be some impact to parking uh in and around the downtown facility so um That's that's really where we are right now in terms of next steps and goals with that we put together a potential Timeline uh in terms of Kind of where we are here with phase one and then moving moving forward to a phase two if that should be recommended Which again is looking at uh Trying to work work through that with the preliminary design um And then design of uh the parking structure um Construction Of said facility, uh, and then looking at final design with this, uh southwest service center Moving forward with final design and planning of a city hall again um Lost my cursor here following along, uh the bottom here Really just trying to move this through a timeline to see if uh again if If this is the pleasure of the council to move forward with these uh, uh planning initiatives, uh Is tied into that uh, cip election uh And uh 2020 So with that i'd be happy to answer any questions. I have a follow-up, uh Presentation on county on the canny county annex next door, uh should Should direction be given in terms of these next steps and that would be what's the status of the existing? county county annex council member you had a question Um on a bond election would each of these be individual items? Um for different votes like with the amount for each or would it be all lumped in as one? package how would We would we would look at it maybe in at least uh a couple of different packages potentially with uh, how What the financing mechanism is for the parking garage if it's embraced? And then depending on how we finance if we're able to finance um The southwest service center and then uh, we could look at Uh the design component and construction component of the city hall one-stop shop and then on the back side of that you'd have associated Costs with either renovations of this facility and or city hall east and the service center Okay, do you want to pull that up at this point? Yeah, uh, we we have some funding options chuck springer director of finance has a slide that Would help council. I believe look at Uh the possibilities or opportunities for funding. So chuck if you wanted to go through that right quick I promise it's just one slide And these are just some some rough numbers we've come up with but different kind of funding alternatives at least for portions of this plan Um, we've looked at the parking and the downtown tours providing some support for the parking garage And this range is really the use of the downtown tours It's a 30 year length by about the time we were looking at this 2021 There would be about 20 years left. So in terms of fund balance in the downtown tours Plus what it could afford in bonded debt over that 20 year period the range is about eight to ten million Under a couple different scenarios There's one scenario that was put forth in the feasibility study in terms of the estimated revenues that was going to come in from the tours And that's the 9.8 and we put together a more conservative Projection that's about a four percent growth. I should mention That this doesn't use up all the dollars in the downtown tours. There'll still be funds from growth during that 20 year period So for example the range of the additional money that would be left for downtown tours projects Depending on the growth ranges from about four to eleven million Okay, well The parking garage was estimated at 14 million Yeah today's dollars, correct. These are just a portion of the funding that can come Um from these different options not covering the full funding. Why would we not use the tours for most of it? I mean, it's one of the major projects. Well what we're really looking at we could We were looking at what could we bond out with what's projected in the tours revenue? And this is really bonding out so that what's available in 2021 What's the dollar amount that's available? How much could we issue in debt for that? I mean we could get a little bit more if you projected some growth in the tours No, it doesn't necessarily premature. So I I apologize for that. I I think to answer your question the tours based on those dollars may not be able to fund that full amount right go Yes, i'm sorry. So on that so I understand Whatever the amount would be in the tours would almost be as a down payment or something We're trying to figure out how much in a year the tours generates and if that would cover the debt Okay, gotcha. Thank you. Yeah kind of a level debt service schedule. So You know if there's 500,000 in tours revenue, what will that? Cover in debt service over that 20 year period and then the growth would be available for other projects um, just some other potential funding sources hotel occupancy taxes and this i've kind of looked at the fund balance in that in that fund if there's any performance tourism type space associated with the city hall in terms of something that can be used By the public to do that whether an outdoor space or an indoor space that could be used We have we receive funds. It's called peg funds public educational and government programming. It's a one percent in addition to franchise fees from generally the cable companies in that that helps support our Public television stations any capital costs for their facilities in the new city hall those funds could be used estimated 800,000 to a million in terms of using fund balance there um, I also calculated they talked about the development services center rent that rent were to be Transferred over and funded out in terms of debt service kind of the capacity of that is somewhere around 7 million dollars so that gives you an idea the range there of those is about 17 to 20 million For those four options The service center there are some funds that have been set aside The initial planning was to expand the current service center So some of the utilities have have placed cash funds aside That's about two million dollars currently Again, the 2020 bond program would probably be a source of necessary funding for a portion of this and then other funding You can look at Any growth in general fund reserves should we set that aside each year? Those types of other funding from the the general fund fund balance or other funding that I haven't identified here But just to give the council idea of some options that are available for at least a portion of the funding of that plan Do you have an estimated total for all the projects? He kind of went through those and I didn't get to write down all the amounts for For that cost is around 80 million or something like that That's about 100 95 so that's about 15 percent. Okay. Thank you In today's dollars councilmember rogan What are we? That's fine. What are we uh, what are we estim ating to be our? 2020 bond program and we've floated some numbers along those lines or what's our capacity going to be at that point? Well, if you remember the 2014 A bond program was a three cent tax increase was originally projected For that one. So a lot of it really depends on On what you want to look at in terms of a tax impact for the bond program But no, I have not projected those out yet in terms of what 's available. And you know If we had 90 to 100 million available then you'd probably see some growth in that But again kind of depends on what kind of tax impact the committee would want to recommend Any other questions councilmember hawkins Yes, councilmember wasney Not so much for uh chuck but if we could go back to our original presentation Okay To mark or alan just um, just some comments and some questions. Yeah, sure so Parking garage in my book is the number one priority for downtown When you go to other cities and you visit And you stay in play You need a place to park and You know, it's a parking crunch in downtown downtown Our events are getting bigger We're not adding the parking spaces that we need and While we need the parking lot for employees nights and weekends when most of our Festivals and festivities are downtown nights and weekends when the majority of our visitors are here to use downtown As a playground they need a place to park and I hear this from citizens all the time Why don't we have a parking garage? And of course my comment as well. How do we pay for it? And that's part of what we're starting to look at but we have A location now that we did purchase. It's vacant. It's ready to go So if I had to do a priority in this list the parking garage would be first I'd like our fire chief to come up and talk about the service center plan For being built next to fire station seven and how do you see that impacting the fire? Department and do you have any comments? Recommendations reservations I value your input on building a new service center next to fire station seven I was going to try and get you back to that. I'll just uh back out of here Councilmember councilmembers, it is a it's absolutely a compatible use with that property. We have significant property that was purchased a number of years ago that the city was able to acquire and Specifically the area where this is projected that northwest area That's underneath the utility easement was always reserved for potential utility use or potential utility substation My understanding is that now the preferred site for the substation expansion in that area is now across I-35 on on alternate property which has made this available But in the original projections for how that property would be utilized there were set asides for potential other city city use for instance a library was projected up on the vantage street location so there's there's significant capacity both for the uh, the drill tower and continued phases of the fire department training center out there and you'll be reviewing a Contract in january for the drill tower construction. There is capacity for that on the location while still accommod ating the service center So while you're still there, um, let's talk about the emergency operation center That we have currently Whether it's adequate Whether it's inadequate and if it's inadequate why? And what a new facility underground would bring to long- term safety in terms of natural disaster And i've been through some natural disasters and the emergency operation center was open for several weeks Whether it's for us a tornado flooding wildfire Uh any type of disaster whether it's man-made or nature- made You have the emergency operation center that becomes the command post for police fire national guard Anyone and everyone involved in first responder action and reaction Utilities are there trying to get the grid back up. There are you have the medical facility coordinators trying to Figure out what hospitals have been hit what what facilities are still available It truly is the heartbeat of recovery and having been through two major hurricanes Where our county was basically wiped out the emergency operation center was Going again for weeks and weeks. It was critical that it was User friendly We have a very old emergency operation center. And so if you could comment on that Because I see this as an integral part of the new city hall in the lower level And question with the 911 call center also be in the lower level Well, your your experience is absolutely, uh valid and applicable to our situation here and the Let me respond to your last question first everything that has been designed has been For for dual purpose the expansion of the 911 center, which is uh wholly inadequate for our current Current use and and has no capacity for expansion for the future It also is designed for colocation in the In the the cities that i've i've worked with before where i 've designed expansions of the emergency operation center We've always Colocated with the 911 public safety answering service because of the criticality of both of them having the the needs to protect the technology both from natural and man-made potential disaster and and that hardening was was Effective for both services and also the the communication that was necessary between all the public safety Operations in the field with the emergency operations management center with uh, Certainly with the mayor and council members helping to facilitate that type of a long-term kind of a campaign management process We did our annual fire department presentation to council as you may recall in uh the training room, uh over at central fire station and that that small room is Is cooperatively used as the fire department's current training center and also as our emergency operations center So all of the uh, all the technology the communications devices all have to be set up When that eoc is activated and it's a very small space There is always a trade-off between the types of uh Locations you might choose for an emergency operations center and a 911 dispatch center in us in the in an area that is absolutely uh insulated from natural disaster or man-made disaster hazards uh such as away from all potential flooding away from all major highways where there may be uh tractor trailer, uh accidents with hazardous materials away from a rail line But the the trade-off with that is that then you end up with emergency operations centers that are remote And the the city staff and the elected officials who must staff that emergency operations center It's very difficult to collect them at that remote location . So what we've talked about here is a as a A place to meet in between was still maintaining the centralized location in the city but utilizing this type of construction to uh put it in a basement facility where we'd have some Hardening of of both facilities and have the ability to expand both Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, sorry And thank you chief thank you, I appreciate that this is about the planning department. Um now being located In the datacube building and that we're paying a lot of money for rent space there and If we could have our head of planning come up Thank you, so our current lease for the datacube space is how many years? Seven years, I believe it's seven years. Yes Seven years is going to go by in a flash. Yes And we'll later be re-upping the lease for an extended period of time or we will plan That location to move all of these employees Let's talk about having engineering in a location that is not under your roof Currently is engineering moving to datacube? We do have the instrumental arm for the development review committee, which is our drc engineering arm that is housed under our building within our building under the development review committee umbrella Okay, mike was off So I come back to the seven years That in seven years we're going to need a home for an ever expanding development services arm of the city and that's Where you know you come in your department comes in this whole big plan comes in No one wants to spend a lot of money. However we're not a little town of 30 000 people anymore and Just wanted to Thank you for moving your staff. I know that was a lot of work I know that it'll be a good home, but that seven-year space will go quickly True as we forecast out we do anticipate that there might be some added fte's potentially, but again, that would be a forecast from I would say Re-evaluation two years from now, but yes, we would have to then reevaluate our space needs. In fact, we've started The last segment of our move this week. So We're ready to Get started. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you Pro Tem Thank you mayor I guess this is for mark and on your timeline As you were looking for direction you had the parking garage Initiated Before the I that chart. Yeah Before the bond election of 2020 Correct, correct. What was the in that scenario? What's the proposed fund? Model given that the turrs will only provide a portion Of the total cost. Well again, it would be It'd be that yeah, well, it'd be the preliminary design phase if that's what you're from understanding the question correctly With construction Portion there. Well, but you're constructing parking structure 120 to 121 which would be initiating the construction prior to any bond election Look at some of the other financing components that Chuck had brought brought forward again There there could be some flexibility in this this timeline that really just wanted to kind of phase that out and show the council how that Wanted one option in terms of phasing it in gotcha you know, I mean I I think in terms of thoughts on this, I mean it's I've on was on council the last time I think staff was trying to nudge us to discuss this to even take this step of Getting some preliminary space studies updated and we said no at the time And I kind of thought about it at the time that we were kicking the ball down the field at some point Some council is gonna have to address this and make some decisions and it's a difficult one. I mean when you go to 2020 bond election and Potentially the vast majority if not all of what's contained in that bond Package is for municipal space That becomes Then that becomes an issue for the voters to have to get their heads wrapped around as to Whether or not that's they're supportive of that and and we 'd have to make that argument at the time or whoever's here I would have to make up that argument at time. So I don't see any way around Honestly not moving forward Taking the next steps to do this because we're going to have to do it seeing the stresses that that you've identified at each of our facilities But just understanding that this is a long road ahead in terms of community conversation So that's my thought I'll be moving forward. Yep mayor appropriate to your point That's that's one of the components here with this with this phase two would be entered into a phase two Component with with a consultant to help us further refine that and move it forward and if at that point in time There was a different direction so be it but again moving that forward That's my life. Thank you, mayor I have to admit the the number originally it's pretty shocking But I'm trying to figure out what number in my head you would give me that I'd be like, okay, let's do that. So I'm almost I think municipal space I just see as a type of infrastructure and what's kind of different about this one You know, we've been talking a lot about DME growing lately and if there's always a part of that with land acquisition And at least with this we are we're already owning these pieces of land and I great job in that you didn't come up here And say well, I'm glad you guys own this but you really need this piece You made sense of what we had and I almost I mean if we're just adding to a wish list right now I wish that you had a little skyway or some way to connect the garage To the municipal building and I know that probably is a lot of money, but just in this conceptual phase right now Well, we wouldn't have to have it but I would like to see how much is advocated for that. Oh, all right violent agreement is cool so I Don't know how to phase it I do think that it's important to move on to the next phase of this and I agree with Kevin We can't just kick this can down the road If the voters vote against it, you know, so be it but I I would challenge all of us to get the message out that This is infrastructure. You all need a good locker room. You need space to get things done. We ask a lot out of you And you got to like the environment that you're in You can't have to get in your car to go down to East and I see it all the time too Or I have witnessed it, you know Somebody comes in here and I'm trying to get a permit and you send them up the road to West and now they're going to Go to DAPQ or somebody's trying to pay a fine and they're here and you got to send them to East this needs to happen So some so I don't know if this is exactly it but this was a job well done And I think it makes sense you keep the integrity of this building. I really like what you do out front with the Plaza I do think that we have missed some costs possibly with connecting the garage to the downtown But we're gonna have to widen some sidewalks or something like that So I'd like us to looking at how is that that garage connected in a way Where it doesn't feel like that's too far away from the square and I don't think that it is but I just want us to address that So anyway, let's move forward Councilmember here So I'm separating these projects into kind of different components in my mind just because it seems to me like the parking garage Portion of it can be funded without bonds through some different mechanisms So it seems to me that we could move ahead with that It may end up helping if the goal is to get a bond election passed to not have a hundred million dollar package to have an Eighty million dollar package or I don't know if it'll make a difference or not But it just seems wise to use the funds that we have rather than taking out new debt that will then be increasing our tax rate So throughout this whole project I would just say let's be cognizant of that three cent projected tax increase that we're talking about in ways that we can Minimize the impact of that if the bonds are passed and I think one way to do that is to start paying for things as we Go earlier in the project the City Hall final I guess the final City Hall To me that's a really large project that definitely needs a lot of voter Input in terms of how much it's going to cost what they're willing with the appetite for that type of spending is I agree with? Councilmember Hawkins, we do need everything in one place. It's just a matter of what is it going to look like and how much is it going to cost? And it sounds like we also need the service center pretty quickly here which again I would ask us to look under the couch cushions as always say here Look under the couch cushions and see if we can find that 20 million dollars somewhere. I know we have to somewhere in there So let's just try to be creative about The money aspect and what we can pay for now. That's my approach I've one more comment too, and we didn't really touch on City Hall West And I've given that building a lot of thought I think it's just Near and dear to our heart and to the history of the city But it's always how much money is going to cost to fix it up And so I've spent some time talking to some of our County historic Commission People and it's something that the city could explore in a partnership with the county and in terms of The key to fixing and this isn't just Remodeling this is restoring City Hall West 90 years of history in that building so we need to restore it, but boy it has a price tag But we have some talent in the county historic Circles that know how to go after grant money for things like this and to try to partner with the county to find grant money to restore this building and then figure out some kind of historical Purpose for that building as well whether it's a museum I mean wouldn't that just be an asset for for downtown But it always comes down to the cost of repairing and restoring which we saw in a staff report gosh, maybe a year ago the cost for the roof and just the AC and the elevators and very basic Remodeling but if we really get into restoring That's where the grant money is so I just want to put that on the table to say that's kind of where my brain has been for a while and What an exciting partnership? I think that could be and the key is grant money So I was so excited to talk to them and of course is so preliminary But I wanted to plant that seed That's member Gary forgot one thing we didn't talk maybe I missed it But the parking garage would have a self funding component to it wouldn't it through payment for use of the spaces yeah in terms of whether you want it to be a a Pay for pay for service. I mean we didn't necessarily go into that there There could be any way to any way to structure that whether you want full cost recover recovery Which may be a pretty steep price per per hourly rate You may look at it in terms of you know, but the other spectrum would be totally free or you may look at some other Some are some other midpoint that may cover annual operating costs or a component of the operating costs associated with it whether it's just maintaining you know the landscape and Electrical utilities, etc But incorporating some type of self pay is on the table in terms of I think anything is open at this point in time In terms of the direction that you may provide us. Okay Okay Yeah, I mean I think we're go ahead No, go ahead So on the project as a whole I understand the intention and why we're doing What we're doing here with everything being one-stop shop, but I just can't get past the price tag of 95 million plus dollars I see so many other things that we need to do for our city and our citizens before we start building This grand mansion for ourselves basically And then I think of the petition going on now for the tax freeze and what that will do to the taxpayers if that passes And who's gonna have to pay for all this? And it worries me that in the future I do Understand the the parking garage and that's great being self-funding but I I wanted to hear the next presentation on the building next door because I'm curious about that and about how much that would cost to renovate and if it would be sooner than Than ten years down the road and how much we could put into that building. So that's kind of Where I am right now Yeah before you go on to that I think that there's going to be a need there is a need my my concern is we did this with the fire stations We didn't do it didn't do it didn't do it and I don't even think it was talked about Until we had to do it and we had to do three two or three of them at the same time We're sort of at that same place with this instead of having a gradual kind of expansion of these different services that we need We're sort of faced with how do we do it now because the need is now and that's not even Considering the need in five or six years. I too am concerned about the cost It's not so much I mean in the end the voters are going to vote on it So in the end they are the ones that have the ultimate say as to what costs are willing to incur for what facility based upon Whether a tax freeze is implemented based upon bonding capacity at the time. So that's really my The most positive thing about this is that this is going to be something that the voters decide and it's going to be up to whoever Believes this is a need to make that that point and those observations so that people can understand that so I In the end, that's what is important to me the parking garage. I mean we talk about festivals There's going to come a point where some of these things are getting so big. They're going to outgrow the downtown I mean when you start putting a thousand or fifteen hundred cars in the downtown six hundred and parking garage You've got so many people some of these festivals will literally be outgrowing the downtown area So that think that's something we need to keep in mind. I don't think we're trying to facilitate A space in downtown that will accommodate whatever we imagine can occur through all these festivals and events So I hope that that's part of the thinking Because there's only so much we can do especially with the pressure for more development So as you have more development you have less space you have more parking requirements. It just It's sort of feeds on itself So I'm okay as far as the parking garage getting built sooner than later I'm going to tell you right now to me the TIF should fund as much of that as humanly possible That's what it was designed for I mean there were a lot of other projects that were involved in that and different categories But when we looked at what is the amount of money? It's going to produce especially if you finance it Well, then you have to consider what kind of interest rate This is five years down the road four years down the road. I guess three Who knows what rates are going to be then who knows what these costs so instead of it being 95 I would Total cost is probably a little bit over a hundred Depending on how how the construction costs go up so I'm okay with moving forward to phase two. What do we have an initial cost of that? What phase two will cost as far as preliminary design and things such as that? We don't at this point in time. We'd like to Bring something sure bring something back if as we take a look at that, but you know We would think certainly south of the 200,000 range. Okay And I believe you have the hotel occupancy tax as something that the parking garage The hot tax could help pay for the parking garage is that correct No That would really be if Associated with the new City Hall if there's any kind of group meeting space entertainment space something to attract visitors Some of the City Halls have like an outdoor area where you can almost have like an amphitheater or entertainment Outside if there's any of that kind of space associated We said potentially hot funds could be used for that portion of the construction of a City Hall Okay, gotcha. Thanks Moving to phase two are we saying we're moving to phase two on all of those items are we picking Some items and then moving forward because that's a pretty huge commitment of this particular council to move forward with It's like five years Okay, you lost me on the five years Well, so in phase two, there's the new City Hall design new parking structure design new Southwest Service Center design and all of that spans over the course of four five years. Well Yeah, but some of that's actual construction I mean that's phase two seems to be the design and the implementation of this if it passes bond Is that correct some of this construction is that it could be? Yes, sir I guess what I'm trying to say is that's too much phase two for me Forward to I mean, it's just a lot of things to say we're gonna do all of that. I'm not comfortable with that Okay Well, as I understand it and mark you can help us in order to get ourselves into position within four years of It's exactly four years because it'll be November 2016 likely of a bond election In 2020 we would have to get some design done in order to get some good price tags on any of these things So the last bond election the only things we ever kind of put forward to the voters were things we'd already kind of done that Assessment so at some point in the phase we've got it Eat the cost for those design estimates whether or not we end up moving forward with it Am I right in that is that is that the point? One of the things you wouldn't want to do is go out and try to design a facility and then it not be funded or not supported as part of the the bond election so again, you're looking at preliminary a preliminary design to get you to probable construction costs Yes, customer Gary, then we'll go to Briggs and Hawkins Well, then I'm not really clear because if the whole idea is to get us to 2020 two or three of those Items are going to be constructed before we even get to a bond So it seems like those those two items should be a priority over Bond funded items later on that's how I'm reading this chart correct. So a couple of things so phase two would be Kind of stepping back taking a look at the City Hall facility the one-stop-shop approach do it doing further refinement on that in addition to that if if approved utilizing some type of funding capacity from the TIF to start design and eventual construction if that moves forward with direction for a parking garage and Depending of that we'd have to start looking at the Southwest Service Center right now We would be hopeful if there was some way to phase that components of the Southwest Service Center and And so you might start with some of the flat work and and some temporary lay down yard and whether we look at some type of modular type of facility out at the service center or a Southwest Service Center in terms of crew space and then and then back into that with a Better design and quality construction at a later date Well, that was kind of basically my question what happens if you start constructing and then the bond fails How does that? Go and also what are the cost of this design of the designs that you're talking about right now Is that would that come to council we would vote on those individually? Yes, it would be over a hundred thousand So we bring it back to back for your review and consideration Okay, which would be what we're suggesting is to bring that back Sometime in the spring to then initiate those preliminary design What I'm struggling with is I saw this as an overall plan and if council starts pulling little parts out of it I think what they did was they collected data on square footage and future FTEs and all that and so I'm figuring Well, I like this part of the plan, but we're not going to do that. It affects the whole plan almost in a way So I would like us to move forward to the next phase with this plan I I don't want us to start meddling with the little parts of it and that sort of thing I think that it will have kind of a collateral effect that Not the overall Concept of what we're going for a centralized Location so anyway Go ahead. Yes, we're here. I Understand that I guess in my mind these are funded with different monies though There's future money that it can be funded with and current money that it can be funded with so if we put it all together We may be eliminating the ability to fund some of these Projects that may not be funded by the voters Let me and I think when you look at what's actually when you look at the slide It has phase two which then it has with embedded in phase two construction sequence number one and construction sequence number two both of those are Those facilities are anticipated to be funded outside of The bond program at least from what I'm looking at the parking garage. It says 918 to 919 I'm sorry. That's the service center parking garage is 120 to 121 so that could be started earlier or not what I'm hearing you councilmember Gary Let me make sure I'm trying to understand what you're saying is that some of these things look like they're ones that we want to try to Move forward immediately like the service center and if we 're able to do that with monies outside of bond funding then we're not held captive to that potential Result of the bonds because we're not going to be funded anything That's not bond funded unless we're already identifying as such I mean we're not going to say we're going to build City Hall and just hope that the voters will vote on it If we don't have a funding source that we can rely on that 's I presume Finance you know finance staff's not going to not going to recommend that so I understand what councilmember Hawkins is saying is this is sort of a a plan a comprehensive plan and if we begin to Dissect it and maybe try to Make it more of the the parts are greater than the than the whole the some of the parts are greater than the whole It could really we could wind up in a situation where We don't have enough space for someone or we've got too much space that we didn't even spend the money on so I'm okay with What's being proposed here simply because there's still a couple other steps coming before council they give us an opportunity to further refine it Further tweak it if need be So I'm okay with with giving that direction you said that you thought some of these designs preliminary designs are a couple hundred thousand dollars You're going to bring that back to us give a specific detail what those are and what those costs are So I don't I don't necessarily have an issue that I will say from a hotel occupancy tax perspective I would have to be really convinced to use that on quote-un quote space in a city hall Man, that's a lot of money You know one or two million dollars out of the hotel motel tax And so I'd want to I'd want to ensure that that would be a space that we could utilize Quite a bit for that kind of activity I just don't want to raid that fund just because it's a source of funding that we don't want to try to Of course, I'm the one that says let's use Restricted funds as much as we can but I also want to see what the plan is for that I'm understanding that's what you're bringing forward. Here 's the plan as we move forward. You've got a couple other meetings to try to Solidify this, okay. All right. Yes mayor pro tem two questions about the funding of the parking structure and one is We've had some conversations the last budget cycle about I won't say rating the TIF funds but utilizing them for other things sidewalks even looking at it for Grant funding of that downtown program and whatnot It seems seems pretty clear that we're gonna want to preserve whatever Capacity we have in that for this in order to pay as much as we can out of there So that seems to be an ongoing policy conversation that we 've not quite even had at the TIF board let alone at the council I just want to make sure we're keeping all that on perspective as we as we address those questions The other is this side of McKinney is not allowable with the TIF the the lines on the other side That's correct. McKinney is the the boundary line. Okay, just occurs to me the park the parking garage would be an easy Bond program passage some of these other ones a little less but I was thinking about swapping things back and forth But if we can't do that, that's doesn't make sense. Thanks. That's all the same money. It's all our own money. I Won't go down that road somebody heavy, yes I just want to come back to the visit that we had at City Hall West and Employees were working in closets. They were jammed in very small spaces the numbers of employees that Were expected to work in that very confined space and that 's where we're going to be Department by department by department This is going to be replicated because this city's growth projection is tremendous, so we either bite the bullet and Just realize that we are growing and we better plan for that growth a Decent place to work means employee retention a Decent place to work means higher productivity out of the employees who come to work so When you look at the big picture I Come back to we're not a little town of 30,000 people anymore and you look at the The areas around North Texas just get in your car and drive around The growth in North Texas is phenomenal and Denton is very much a part of that We sit at the apex of the 235 And here it comes and we've just we've got to get ready for it when I saw in writing that the The youngest of all the buildings was 40 years old I mean that just tells you we haven't spent any money for 40 years to build a facility to house our our employees that make this city run so I I'm all for moving forward Again, I come back to my priorities and I have to parking garage sooner than later I think that is just critical to downtown and the service center having Spoken to those employees. They are at more than capacity over there and Having heard from the fire chief that it's compatible with fire station 7 then I I move those two to the top of the list But I embrace Again, we're gonna have to bring planning back It just makes for in a more efficient city government Thanks, you have you have to the staff that you know really put this together into the consultants Yes, thank you. Yeah, you have another slide Worst worst we're bumping up against two o'clock. So if you can Get through that and we can give you a real quick almost like Jimmy Jones. Okay, so Here we go. Just wanted to give you a quick quick idea. This is the this is the structure we're talking about Showing you this structure here gives you a little bit of an overview I think that's in your backup. So there's some information on the left side You can see on the bottom floor where we've taken the windows out on the bottom floor as well as the second floor essentially This item here we talked about environmental assessment. We had asbestos and some soil contamination The asbestos was in the glazing of the windows as well as the floor tiles some plumbing as well as Say ceiling ceiling tiles floor windows and pipes So this just gives you a quick idea of some of the remed iation that's taken place here Ceiling and then the wall there as well as the ceiling on the second the elevators County had not kept them up to meet state standards. So they just welded them shut. That's what this bar is right here It's been welded shut. So it's inoperative Second photo self-explanatory This is one of the restrooms which would be very hard to remediate to make it ADA but obviously quite a bit of a Remodeling has already taken place moving the asbestos there this is the top floor just showing some of the individual cells where it looks like some of the This is you can see where some of the the gel cells and iron was removed either for renovation or Recycling purposes But I think what they found out it was not worth the effort in terms of trying to get it out of there Because it is so solidly built So again what we were looking for on this particular component of the project would be Moving forward if if there's a desire to to demo it we as a staff felt Like that's the best course of action. In fact, we've got a we've got a document on the street now for an RFP What we'd like to do is just go ahead and move forward with the removal of the structure at least get the the flat work Taken care of so it could be refurbished and utilized for some of the festival activities coming up in the spring Has there been any employee Or citizen input on the demolition of this building? So there has been some there has not been any citizen input there there has been conversation internally both at the operations level management level and senior management or executive level in terms of demoing the structure But in terms of demoing that we all feel like that's the correct direction Have you discussed it with our new preservation officer? I have visited with him He indicated that obviously as a as a preservation officer sees value in every structure There's obviously As he pointed out prior to this Asbestos renovation or removal Had we gone in front of the National Park Service There might have been some funding out there for the restoration, but that would have been remediation and then restoration of the facility and we felt like we wanted to move forward with the demo of the structure the The real estate was of more value than the structure itself . We looked at the renovation of it and in the neighborhood of Several million dollars to renovate. I think about twenty four thousand square feet Didn't get us across the goal line or close enough to where we needed to be with with every, you know centralized one-stop shop Forwards New Year's Eve implosion And I think your last comment was the most important that even if we did Renovate spend a lot of money to remediate We still wouldn't have the space we need as we move forward Because what we're looking at essentially is a 40-year plan for employees And a place for city government. So even if we did the space would be too small, but I Was thrilled when we were able to buy it because it would ensure one big city campus and now with the parking lot across the street that we also own So much of moving forward with this city plan is Timing and the timing even two year three years ago Would have been premature because we wouldn't have had the parking lot. We wouldn't have had the old County jail but we do now and so I'm in favor of demolition and whatever we build All the standards have changed I mean you would literally have to you know, peel this thing back to the brick And and rebuild having been in the home building and remod eling homes You can spend as much or more Remodeling and not even be up to standards then just building new so I'm still in favor of taking this building out and with the mold and the asbestos and all the problems that that building has and Redesign that site and again, we're we're planning for the next 40 years. So I I vote for demolition Yes Did you know no go ahead Well sustainability and preservation are a large part of our 2030 plan as well as we Purposing existing buildings and that's why I wanted to Revisit this one more time and give council one more chance to look at it before we destroy it It's a bit of history. It's a well-known architect grace and Gill and once it's gone, it's gone You can't do anything about it. So I just wanted us to To all be on the same level before we blow it up Yes, go ahead This is okay, I've seen some buildings that incorporate old buildings into the new building So you see like the structural elements of the old building as a wall an interior wall of a new building How like I mean is that even in the realm of possibility here where perhaps we could gut it and remove The interior portions that are problematic but preserve the actual structure itself for some historical component Is that something that's feasible? Are you talking about like a you know about the whole building you don't like that like a wall or a beam or a jail cell The jail bars. I mean, what are you talking about? I read too many of the design magazines and I've seen you know They what they do basically is you have this old wall that came from an old building and it's a part of the new building as an interior structure Probably an issue question is Maybe Carol quartz building comes to mind is a good example of one they It was started out as a structure for one design It's set dormant for years if for those of us that are the old-time Denton folks we know the history down there on Carol and in in Hickory, but Is from what I understand of that building there, I don't think that's very likely Primarily because the floor to floor heights in it as we've looked at it just very briefly But the floor floor heights really wouldn't be very conduct ive to fit Into the the new floor floor heights of what we would want to have it would be Difficult to to adapt those together There may be some minor components in there that we might want to try to salvage, but I really think it's one of those Situations where the economic value of trying to rehab or save part of it is not It's not good enough to really You're not gonna walk away with anything of value out of that May I put him what year is this built? six 64 okay, so I Guess I've never heard anyone give a case for what makes this Sexually or historically important, you know to preserve something as a landmark in our community You've got to justify that I had to do it from my house And so I don't I don't see it in terms of the architecture Is anything interesting and unless there's some history there was somebody contained there that I mean I'm curious as to what the case is that we're making Well, I'm not necessarily making a case I just wanted to revisit it before we distract decide to blow up the building that okay, so You know when I had a district two conversation Our new preservation officer did a had a presentation and this building was on there as being Historical and was mentioned that it was going to be blown up and I was like well, it's not yet Maybe we can talk more about it before it is. It was just my idea and gotcha So that's right. Yeah, I guess I'm not sold on the the benefits of it from an historic structure And given what we could use so I'm in favor of demoing it I kind of like your plan isn't there gonna be a downtown New Year's Eve Event I like it. Well and fireworks and from the Perspective of remodeling this or retrofitting it if I'm not mistaken if it's if the structure you Do more than 25% or 50 25% of its value you have to bring it up to all new codes, I believe folks let me tell you I Want to see us try to do that on this building quite honestly with our codes but yeah, I mean I understand what you're saying council member Briggs and and But and I too asked for this to come back because it was an informal staff report so we could have a more detailed Conversation about it, but I think in the end from a cost perspective and also just from a use perspective and Not having made at least that I've seen this historical Case I'm probably okay with it with it being I don't know if we want to blow it up. I mean that's Yeah, yeah, well we don't want to pay the cost of that but anyway, yes So just in conclusion For both items today if I could reiterate sure what I believe I've heard the direction. Yes, so given staff direction to initiate a phase two of the master plan Study to include direction to move forward with preliminary design efforts for one-stop City Hall campus downtown parking structure and design and construction of a southwest or auxiliary service center and Then a look at long-term planning efforts for the county annex which would would include the demolition of said structure next understanding that there will be other Opportunities to tweak those plans you're gonna bring back Rfps for the demolition RFPs for the design those kind of things correct That seems that's my understanding of the direction from the consensus of the council's it any any difference of opinion on that? Okay, good. All right, and we've got concluding items Anybody have concluding items? I've got one real quick one or actually two but One is that we've been we've talked about bringing back some ideas on the City Hall West What we want to do it that we haven't done that I'd like to get those back and I really would like to see Maybe not be able to do it this year. It'd be great if we could do it this year if council is in a group But we used to decorate City Hall West With with lights during the holidays and I think if you've seen pictures of that in the past, it's quite phenomenal So I want to know is there an opportunity to do that this year is it something we can't do it's too soon and if not Well, okay, yes anyway, that's what I'd like to if Well, we can do that too yeah we can do that too, but if that's possible that'd be great All right, any other concluding items? If not, we'll stand adjourned You