1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000
 >> Okay.

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,000
 Welcome to the Monday, November 9th, 2020

3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,000
 traffic safety commission meeting.

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,000
 It looks like we have a quorum of, I think, five of our commissioners

5
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,000
 are here. So we'll go ahead and get started.

6
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,000
 Are there, Rachel, are there any comments

7
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,000
 in the virtual white cards or anyone by phone commenting that we should know about as we get started?

8
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,000
 >> No, we have no comments today. Thank you.

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,000
 >> Thank you. Okay. If there's no

10
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,000
 comments from the public, then we can go ahead and move to our

11
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,000
 first item for consideration, which is item A,

12
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,000
 TSC20-020.

13
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000
 Consider the approval of the minutes of September 17th, 2020.

14
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,000
 Are there any corrections needed for the meeting minutes from any of the commissioners?

15
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,000
 Okay.

16
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,000
 If there's no

17
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,000
 corrections to the minutes, which I'm not seeing that there are any,

18
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,000
 we will need a motion to approve the minutes

19
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,000
 from the last meeting. >> I make a motion to approve.

20
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,000
 >> I second the motion. >> Okay. We got

21
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,000
 Commissioner Thurmond made the first motion and

22
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,000
 Commissioner Carr made the second motion. So that

23
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000
 if we can go ahead and get a vote, everyone in favor

24
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000
 of approving the minutes, yay? >> Yay.

25
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,000
 >> Anyone opposed?

26
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,000
 Okay. I think that's all for the record. I think all of our commissioners approve

27
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,000
 the minutes. >> Daniel, excuse me, Daniel.

28
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,000
 In the virtual environment, we have to have a call out on the vote, so each

29
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,000
 commissioner can announce their name and their vote. >> One by one?

30
00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,000
 >> Yes, please. >> Okay. No problem.

31
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,000
 So we'll go -- I'll go in order from

32
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,000
 the council place. Commissioner Carr?

33
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,000
 >> Yes, approved.

34
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,000
 >> Okay. King? >> Jeff King, yay.

35
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,000
 >> Thurmond? >> Clay Thurmond, yay.

36
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000
 >> And Baker?

37
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,000
 I believe you're muted, Connie.

38
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,000
 Although I saw him say yay.

39
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:40,000
 >> There should be a little microphone image

40
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,000
 in the lower left-hand corner of your screen.

41
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000
 I'll let you know when we can hear you, Connie.

42
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,000
 It should be on -- if you make the

43
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,000
 zoom screen full screen, you can see it sometimes when you just

44
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,000
 see the small screen. It can be hidden from you.

45
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,000
 But on your own video, if you can see your own -- there you go.

46
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,000
 >> Ah. >> Yes. >> Yes. I approve the minutes.

47
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,000
 Yes, thank you. >> Okay. And I also approve

48
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,000
 the minutes. And so that is a 5-0 vote.

49
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000
 Okay. All right. Moving on to item B,

50
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,000
 TSC 20-021, receive a report, hold a discussion,

51
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000
 and give staff direction regarding the continued development of an ordinance allowing golf carts

52
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,000
 to travel on city streets. >> Thank you, Chairman.

53
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,000
 And good afternoon to Brian Young, city traffic engineer.

54
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000
 So let me share my screen.

55
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,000
 And --

56
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,000
 So can you see the presentation?

57
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,000
 >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So if you'll remember

58
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,000
 the last meeting, we had a brief discussion about whether or not we were going to consider

59
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,000
 an ordinance allowing the use of golf carts

60
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,000
 on city streets. We agreed to do so. And so this is the

61
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,000
 next step in that, as you may remember,

62
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,000
 I think the general consensus of the commission was that we wanted to limit it

63
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,000
 to certain streets and maybe not every street that is

64
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,000
 35 miles an hour or less, but actually

65
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,000
 craft a more restrictive list of streets. So that's really what our

66
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,000
 focus today is. We also want to talk a little bit about the type of vehicles.

67
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000
 So just some quick review.

68
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,000
 The code, the transportation code allows us as a municipality

69
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,000
 to pass an ordinance to permit the use of golf carts

70
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,000
 on city street other than the default, which is your

71
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,000
 two miles from a golf course, et cetera, et cetera. So

72
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,000
 we do have a draft ordinance. And with us today is Stephanie

73
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,000
 Berry and Brian Coase with our PD. Stephanie

74
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,000
 is our lead prosecutor. She crafted an ordinance.

75
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,000
 And the ordinance that she crafted was specifically

76
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,000
 limited to UNT. However, we've had discussions with TW.

77
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,000
 They also want to participate in the

78
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,000
 consideration of golf carts or other slow-moving vehicles

79
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,000
 on city streets that meet certain criteria. So I have

80
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,000
 and I don't think I can get to it. Let me try it real quick. Yeah, I can't open that file.

81
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,000
 So I figured. We have an ordinance that's out there and I think

82
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,000
 it was included in your packet that allows

83
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,000
 golf carts to utilize roadways adjacent

84
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000
 or through. And I've modified it to say the two campuses, UNT

85
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,000
 and TWU. So what we need to decide or what you need to decide

86
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000
 as a commission, is that language acceptable or do we want

87
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,000
 to broaden that or restrict it even further to certain, basically

88
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,000
 craft a list of streets that allows, on which

89
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,000
 we allow the use of golf carts. So that's the first question in front of us today.

90
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000
 Here is a side-by-side comparison. UNT

91
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,000
 and TWU, where they currently

92
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,000
 utilize the

93
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,000
 golf carts or slow-moving vehicles. So UNT is on the right and TWU

94
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,000
 is on the left. Those roadways in yellow at TWU

95
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,000
 and the roadways in orange for UNT basically

96
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000
 would be the facilities that are in the ordinance as it's drafted

97
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,000
 now. Adjacent to or through the university campuses

98
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,000
 both UNT and TWU. So that's our

99
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,000
 starting point.

100
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,000
 So here's a map of all the roads that are 35 miles an hour or less.

101
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000
 Obviously, we've got a lot of facilities

102
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000
 that are not adjacent to UNT or TWU. However,

103
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,000
 the code allows us to include any or all of these roadways

104
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,000
 as long as the speed limit is 35 miles an hour or less

105
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,000
 and the golf carts are outfitted with brakes and lights

106
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,000
 and seatbelts and all the bells and whistles that are included in the requirements for the code.

107
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,000
 This is a list

108
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,000
 of those same roadways. So

109
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,000
 here are options we can allow on currently... Could you go back to that

110
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000
 list just for one moment, Brian? Yes.

111
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,000
 So there are segments of all of these

112
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,000
 roadways that are 35 miles an hour or less. So obviously

113
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,000
 not the entire length of any of them, but there are pieces of these roadways that

114
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,000
 are in fact 35 miles an hour or less.

115
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,000
 I was just verifying. I think some of these roadways are

116
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,000
 pretty diverse, aren't they? I was just thinking about that.

117
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,000
 That's the pitfall, I think, of just picking that category of 35 miles an hour

118
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,000
 or less. Some of them are two-lane roadways, some of them are four-lane roadways.

119
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,000
 Some of them could very well be divided roadways. Very, very

120
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,000
 different context based on the roadway segment.

121
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,000
 So that's the discussion we have is

122
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,000
 which roadways are appropriate.

123
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,000
 Again, the way the ordinance is crafted right now, it is limited to

124
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,000
 roadways that are adjacent to or through the university campuses.

125
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,000
 That may be a good starting point. If we want to grow this sometime later,

126
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,000
 we can come back and revisit it and add streets.

127
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,000
 So I'm going to go back a little bit further.

128
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,000
 I just wanted to make a note of one street as an example on there. Fort Worth Drive

129
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,000
 is 35 miles when you come off of 35, if everyone knows

130
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,000
 that, right? If you come off 35 east

131
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,000
 onto Fort Worth Drive towards the core of Denton, that's 35

132
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,000
 miles. But really, the road is designed closer to, you know, it's like three lanes

133
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,000
 both sides. It doesn't feel like a 35 mile per hour road at all. It feels

134
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,000
 like a 50 mile per hour road. And people go

135
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000
 a lot faster than 35 on it. And that's exactly the discussion

136
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000
 we want to have is just because it's posted 35, that feel may not be

137
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,000
 35. It may be 55 or 45. And is it

138
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,000
 appropriate just because the speed limit is 35 to allow the golf carts or

139
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,000
 slow moving vehicles to utilize those roadways? So that's kind of what we

140
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,000
 that's where we are. So let me go back to that. So again,

141
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,000
 we can utilize the maps

142
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,000
 that were submitted to the universities. That's probably

143
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000
 a pretty good starting point. We can expand it to all

144
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,000
 or some additional 35 mile an hour roadways.

145
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,000
 Or we can, again, create the smaller subset

146
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,000
 of that 35. We can incorporate

147
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,000
 characteristics like only a two-lane undivided roadway, et cetera,

148
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,000
 slower than 35, only roads that are,

149
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,000
 we can come up with any kind of criteria that we want. It's really just a matter of

150
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,000
 what the commission, there was a specific voice

151
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,000
 opinion that we wanted to limit

152
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,000
 only on certain roadways. And so that's where we are today.

153
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,000
 There is another question that we need to identify

154
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,000
 and maybe it's for another meeting. I'll ask Stephanie if we're off posting.

155
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,000
 But the question has come up from, and I haven't heard it from

156
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000
 UNT, but TWU also uses

157
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,000
 mules and other golf cart type vehicles.

158
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,000
 So I've seen other ordinances where they define, they call

159
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,000
 them SMV, a slow moving vehicle. And so those types

160
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,000
 of vehicles are described and categorized. And so even if it's a gas-powered

161
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,000
 mule or a gas-powered golf cart or an electric golf cart,

162
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,000
 we have a list of vehicle types in the ordinance

163
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,000
 that we allow. So it's not just a golf cart, and that's

164
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,000
 kind of a loose, broad definition, but we actually are, we try

165
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,000
 and reflect those types of vehicles that the universities

166
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000
 use. And I think this ordinance is really intended to address the needs

167
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000
 of the universities, but we may grow

168
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,000
 that in the future if DISD, which we have not had

169
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,000
 conversations with the school district, or

170
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,000
 other entities want to use golf carts on city streets.

171
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,000
 I think that's the phase two where we come back

172
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,000
 and add those streets or categorize

173
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,000
 those roadways somehow to allow those users.

174
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000
 So,

175
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,000
 I think we need to have a discussion today

176
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,000
 to talk about what the preference of the commission is.

177
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,000
 We will incorporate those comments if there are any changes

178
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000
 into the draft ordinance that Stephanie's created.

179
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,000
 We will bring it back to you one more time just to make sure that, alright, here's where we are,

180
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,000
 and here's what we've included, and these are the roads, and this is the approach

181
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,000
 that we're taking prior to taking it to council for adoption.

182
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,000
 So, the discussion for today is

183
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,000
 which roadways in Denton do we want to allow

184
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,000
 golf carts to utilize? And with that, I'm going to stop sharing so we can

185
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,000
 have that discussion.

186
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,000
 And just a reminder, we'll try to use Robert's rules, so if you can

187
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,000
 indicate when you want to speak, either by using the

188
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,000
 virtual raise your hand or just kind of put your hand up, I can try to call on people.

189
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,000
 It looks like Commissioner Thurman has a comment.

190
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,000
 Yes, I like the

191
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,000
 idea of starting just with a university since this seemed to be initiated

192
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,000
 by them, and I'm around T.W. quite a bit, so I think the

193
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,000
 expansion of the vehicle types would be good for that

194
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,000
 of the mules as well. I don't see any need right now

195
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,000
 to expand it out in the city. I think if we did, we'd probably be

196
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,000
 creating more headaches for us, and right now I don't think we need those, but I

197
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000
 think it would be good to later go on and look at

198
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,000
 the criteria that you had on the bullet point, the third bullet

199
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,000
 point. I think those would be good. Just one

200
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,000
 observation, during election day, I was out

201
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,000
 at Lifeline Church just off

202
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,000
 Teasley, and there was one person in a golf cart driving

203
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,000
 to and from the neighborhood and around the area, and I didn't particularly

204
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000
 have a problem with it. That's not a big traffic through

205
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,000
 a neighborhood, but I can see how that could maybe be expanded

206
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000
 in the future to include smaller neighborhoods like that

207
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000
 that don't really have as much through traffic, but at this

208
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,000
 point I'm in favor just of limiting it to the universities.

209
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,000
 Commissioner Carl?

210
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,000
 I would agree with Commissioner Thurmond. I don't see any

211
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,000
 point in extending it beyond the universities. My only other thought was

212
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,000
 we haven't included NCTC, and they have a campus now downtown,

213
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000
 so I'm kind of wondering if they would have a use for it, but

214
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,000
 downtown traffic usually runs pretty slow,

215
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,000
 but I would agree. Keeping it to the

216
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,000
 UNT and TWU for now.

217
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,000
 Brian, what do you think about the possibilities of narrowing

218
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,000
 those criteria a lot? I mean, I think 35 is clearly too high

219
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,000
 in my opinion, but if we narrowed it to 25

220
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,000
 and narrowed it to two-lane roads, which would consider more neighborhoods,

221
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000
 that would allow potentially more people.

222
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000
 What are your thoughts on just making the criteria a lot tighter

223
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000
 so that it would only fit certain neighborhoods?

224
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,000
 I would have to, one, I would recommend not using

225
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,000
 25. I would recommend using 30.

226
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000
 And the next presentation is going to explain a little bit about

227
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,000
 why my hesitancy to use 25.

228
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,000
 I don't have a problem with that. I just would want to make sure

229
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,000
 that all the roads that the universities have on their maps,

230
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,000
 I just want to verify that those are all less than 35.

231
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,000
 So if there's a 35 mile an hour roadway that's adjacent or through the campus,

232
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,000
 one of the campuses, I would not want to preclude them from being able to use that

233
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000
 roadway unless, of course, we could find a parallel. But it really depends on

234
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,000
 their facilities are, you know, they're on every block, every block face.

235
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,000
 So I would just want to verify that we would not eliminate

236
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,000
 a major opportunity for them to use

237
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,000
 the roadway just because it's 35. And that's kind of why

238
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,000
 I brought the maps and I asked the universities to provide those. Where they

239
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,000
 currently operate is people are already used to seeing

240
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,000
 slow moving vehicles, golf carts or mules or whatever,

241
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,000
 on these roadways. So it's kind of, I mean, it's a starting point.

242
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,000
 But we can, I can verify, I can't do it right now, but I can verify

243
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,000
 that all the roadways that are shown on the TWU map and the UNT map

244
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,000
 are 30 miles an hour or less. That's not a problem.

245
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,000
 Would it be possible to,

246
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,000
 you know, set the criteria but allow for, like,

247
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,000
 people to, I don't want to say appeal, but, you know, apply for certain

248
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000
 roadways that maybe don't meet the criteria for exceptions.

249
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,000
 And then those would be, for example, like added to a map. And so that would

250
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000
 allow us maybe, I'm guessing that's why you don't want to tighten the speed limit

251
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,000
 because that would affect probably around the universities. Could we

252
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,000
 have a process like that or would that be too burdensome, you think,

253
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,000
 for the city to maintain and keep track of? I don't think it would be

254
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000
 too burdensome at all. I'm going to defer to Stephanie and I'm not sure

255
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000
 how often we want to update this ordinance.

256
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,000
 Because people could petition for a street

257
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,000
 at any time. And then we would be basically

258
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,000
 obligated to consider it and then take it to commission

259
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,000
 and then to council. Just really depends on how often do you want to do that.

260
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,000
 Or should we,

261
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,000
 well, I'm not sure how we want to, that's a good discussion point,

262
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,000
 is how do we want to update or continue to grow this ordinance

263
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000
 if we start small and want to add to what that process is?

264
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,000
 I think if you did it piecemeal with streets, like by application,

265
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,000
 it would maybe not, it wouldn't create a burden for the ordinance

266
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,000
 writing per se, but it would create a law enforcement burden

267
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,000
 for Sergeant Coase and the officers

268
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,000
 knowing, wait, this street, it's allowed, this street, it's not, so it would

269
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,000
 sort of, it would, from

270
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,000
 a police enforcement standpoint, it would be better to have it by

271
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,000
 okay, if you guys want to do TW and UNT

272
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,000
 and then maybe at some point bringing in all the streets under 35

273
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,000
 or whatever, a set criteria, because

274
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,000
 I don't know

275
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,000
 how police officers would keep track of, oh, this

276
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,000
 street is legal and this isn't

277
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,000
 anyhow. I don't know if Sergeant Coase has any thoughts on that.

278
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,000
 No, I would concur with

279
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,000
 that, that any ordinance, ideally it would be easy to enforce,

280
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,000
 easy to understand by the officers, so if it's

281
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,000
 changing a lot, we would have to produce new maps and constantly be

282
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,000
 pushing out that info to officers.

283
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,000
 For example, right now there's already some confusion

284
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,000
 as to what a master plan community is. I don't have a good definition

285
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
 for that, even though the transportation code refers to it in the golf

286
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,000
 card ordinance. So that already creates some confusion that

287
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,000
 hopefully with this ordinance we can get some clarification

288
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,000
 that's easy to push out to not only us, but the TW

289
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,000
 officers, UNT officers that work the city as well.

290
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000
 And one other

291
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000
 thing, not just for the police, but also for our citizens, if we start

292
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000
 adding in a street here, a street there, there could be some

293
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,000
 confusion and someone might think they're allowed to

294
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,000
 drive a golf cart in their neighborhood, because

295
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000
 some streets can and some can't, so we

296
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,000
 definitely want to, there's a fairness issue and a notice issue to our

297
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,000
 citizens also. So Stephanie, that begs a question that I had.

298
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,000
 I think the way the ordinance is currently written, it simply says

299
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,000
 you can operate a golf cart on a street that is adjacent to our

300
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,000
 neighborhood, passes through one of the two campuses.

301
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,000
 Do we want to limit that to university personnel or just anybody

302
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,000
 who's got a golf cart can run up and down those roadways?

303
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,000
 I can see some college kids having a golf cart.

304
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,000
 So I have thought about that and I'm not sure how we, if we want to

305
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,000
 roll that into, you know, basically define who the

306
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,000
 allowable operators are. I think it says

307
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,000
 university of business and is that strong enough so that

308
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,000
 a student can't say, well, I'm going to class, that's university of business.

309
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,000
 I think the language is

310
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,000
 probably adequate, yes.

311
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,000
 Any other comments from commissioners?

312
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,000
 Yeah, this is Jeff King. I had to just

313
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,000
 go back a little bit regarding the speed limits. I mean,

314
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,000
 the streets that you listed on that big list, I mean, you had multiple examples.

315
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,000
 I know that you mentioned Fort Worth Drive or Carroll. I mean, you have Mayhill,

316
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,000
 Lilliam Miller, Fort Worth Drive, Teasley, and then Teasley turns into Wind River.

317
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000
 All those under 35 at some point and obviously those

318
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,000
 are not places for golf carts. And then when you take a look at lower end

319
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,000
 the speed limits to say 25, I mean, most of your neighborhoods, and y'all correct me if

320
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,000
 I'm wrong on this, but just from experience, my neighborhood itself,

321
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,000
 Southridge, if you look at that, I believe all of those speed limits

322
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,000
 may not be posted, but technically are 30 miles an hour.

323
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,000
 And so if you're driving around the neighborhood, I mean,

324
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,000
 you're supposed to be going 30 obviously, and most people do because of the kids around things like that.

325
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000
 So, you know, limiting those neighborhoods

326
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,000
 where there might be, you know, whether it's just a handful of cases

327
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,000
 of some, you know, maybe some elderly people driving down the street to a friend's house or something

328
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,000
 like that. I mean, obviously, are they going to get ticketed for that?

329
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,000
 Are they going to get caught for that? Or is that going to be an issue? Probably not.

330
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,000
 I mean, I would assume. So I think that those situations

331
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,000
 in those types of neighborhoods, using Southridge as an example,

332
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000
 you know, I would have no problem with somebody driving a golf cart down the street. You know,

333
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,000
 you see a lot of it at Halloween, things like that.

334
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,000
 But, you know, that's just my two cents on those bigger streets.

335
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,000
 I haven't mentioned just a handful of them that I read briefly. There's no way I would want to see

336
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,000
 a golf cart or slow moving vehicle on those types of streets.

337
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,000
 But I would not have a problem with the type of neighborhoods or, I don't know,

338
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
 if you call them master plan communities or whatever, however they're defined,

339
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,000
 having access to them.

340
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,000
 So I want to follow up on that because we talked about

341
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,000
 lowering the, possibly, lowering the allowable speed to

342
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,000
 30 miles an hour or less. There are portions of McKinney that are 30 miles an hour.

343
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,000
 And it probably would not be an appropriate place for a golf cart either.

344
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,000
 I agree. And Dahlstra? We will talk a little bit about speed

345
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,000
 zoning in the next presentation, but

346
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,000
 the reason I'm hesitant to tie it to a speed limit, I like the geographic,

347
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,000
 the mapping. It's easy to understand. It's easy to enforce

348
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,000
 adjacent or through a university. As we may be in the next

349
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
 12 months, we're probably going to be updating a lot of our posted speed limits

350
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,000
 just because of some of the complete streets and Vision Zero

351
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
 policies that we're trying to enact. And so if we wanted

352
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,000
 to consider a speed limit as a criteria, I'd say let's wait

353
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,000
 until we get that speed limit update, that ordinance update, so that we know which

354
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,000
 streets we're talking about and something doesn't change midstream. So if we

355
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,000
 picked 30 now and then something changes and that roadway is

356
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,000
 no longer 30, but we, you know, I just, I mean, one of

357
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,000
 my recommendations, if we wanted to apply a speed limit

358
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,000
 criteria, let's wait until that speed limit ordinance is adopted.

359
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,000
 The update is adopted.

360
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,000
 So this item asks for

361
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000
 staff direction, give staff direction regarding the continued

362
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,000
 development of the ordinance. So Brian, what do you need in regards

363
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,000
 to this from us? Do you need a motion or do you just need comments?

364
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,000
 I probably just need a consensus. If everybody's on

365
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,000
 board with utilizing the way the ordinance

366
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,000
 is crafted now, and that's adjacent to or passing through one of the two university

367
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,000
 campuses, and if you wanted to, we could go back and revisit

368
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,000
 North Central Texas and see if they utilize golf

369
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,000
 carts or want to. And we can bring that back as a

370
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,000
 third map or something. We can do that. So it's really just

371
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,000
 which streets and if we want to go that geographic base that we've got in the ordinance

372
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000
 now. And then the second part is, and

373
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
 Stephanie, let me know if I'm off posting because

374
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,000
 I think we've got, I know I've at least heard it from

375
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,000
 TWU. I've not heard it from UNT, but they want a little bit better

376
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,000
 definition than golf cart as far as vehicle type. I think we

377
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000
 would be going off posting. We'll bring that back next time.

378
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,000
 But it's something to think about.

379
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,000
 So it seems to me like

380
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,000
 there's at least a consensus on the campuses

381
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,000
 using golf carts or similar.

382
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,000
 The NCTC to me, I

383
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,000
 understand why it's not included because it's just one building, right?

384
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,000
 So I don't know where the golf carts would be going to except to the parking garage.

385
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,000
 So I think at this time, I don't know if it makes sense to do that. That would actually maybe open more

386
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,000
 wormholes than the kids driving them on campuses, right? And then now you can

387
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,000
 ride them around the square.

388
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,000
 So commissioners tell me what you think, but

389
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,000
 I'm good with going forward with the plans for the campuses.

390
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,000
 I think that makes a lot of sense and considering

391
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,000
 whether that should be expanded or there should be further guidelines for opening it up to other

392
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,000
 parts of Denton in the future, I think seems like a

393
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,000
 wise approach.

394
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:32,000
 Excuse me.

395
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,000
 Thank you. So I'm just trying to understand. So if we just limit it

396
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,000
 to the appropriate personnel on the

397
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,000
 campuses and then leave it open for further discussion or

398
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,000
 examination down the road for

399
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000
 say neighborhoods or something like that. I mean, what's going to be the indicator? What's going to be the

400
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000
 you know, the trigger that's actually going to open up that

401
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000
 discussion again? How are we going to get back to that down the road? I mean, is that something we just

402
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,000
 don't know or something that we can plan on looking at down the road and make a date

403
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,000
 or something like that?

404
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,000
 So is that question directed to me? Yes.

405
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,000
 Okay. So my recommendation would be that we start with

406
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,000
 these two geographic areas and let's see what success we have.

407
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,000
 And my concern about as we grow

408
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000
 this thing, how fast we grow it and how big we grow it is what

409
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,000
 Stephanie talked about is that's the enforcement and

410
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,000
 how much of a challenge are we creating for our police department

411
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000
 to try and enforce? They have, like Brian said, they've got to, you know, every time we

412
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,000
 change it or add a street or add a region, we got to update the map and all the officers

413
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000
 need to know and is it just in residential

414
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,000
 because that's the real, if we don't use speed limit

415
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,000
 as a criteria, then it really becomes a mapping issue and

416
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,000
 the officers are just going to have to know

417
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,000
 where they can enforce that and where they can't. And is it

418
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,000
 every subdivision or is it just those that apply and then

419
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,000
 that leads to the, well, why not our neighborhood? Well, because you didn't apply.

420
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,000
 So I think, my recommendation would be let's see how this

421
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,000
 goes and then let's see where

422
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,000
 the desire is from the community is, hey, we want golf carts in our neighborhood.

423
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,000
 We may not ever hear that. I don't know.

424
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,000
 But I think it would certainly be something that in

425
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,000
 the future, six months from now or six months after adoption, if the commission

426
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,000
 said, you know what, that's working fine. So let's think about

427
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000
 expanding it and offering that to different users.

428
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,000
 Certainly in the purview of the commission is

429
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,000
 let's talk about expanding the scope.

430
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,000
 Well, and I think Commissioner King's point is pretty good.

431
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,000
 Would it make sense to like return to this issue like in a year, right?

432
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,000
 Like after this policy has been in place and can we do that? Can we make a note to return to this?

433
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000
 Sure. So that we know that it actually-- We can put it on that.

434
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
 Commissioner King, would that

435
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000
 meet your concern, right, that we actually do bring

436
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,000
 it back to the commission at some point? Well, I mean, what's going to be the

437
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,000
 evaluation process for the universities? I mean, what is y'all's plan as far as

438
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,000
 are you looking at two months, three months, six months, a year? I mean, as far as

439
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,000
 what's working, what's not? So right

440
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000
 now, they primarily utilize sidewalks. I think they do use the streets

441
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000
 sometimes, but they know they're not legal.

442
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,000
 So the indicator that I'm going to use is crash experience.

443
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000
 If we start having crashes with either pedestrians in golf

444
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
 carts or vehicles in golf carts, that's, to me, that the safety

445
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000
 issue or the safety aspect is the-- That's the big issue.

446
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000
 Is it safe? If we don't see any crash history or

447
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,000
 crash experience increase, to me, that's a successful program.

448
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000
 You know, I quite frankly think the golf carts or the

449
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,000
 slow-moving vehicles of any kind belong on a street more than they belong on a sidewalk.

450
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,000
 So-- But it brings

451
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,000
 an inherent conflict between a 3,000-pound piece

452
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,000
 of steel and a 500-pound piece of steel. So it's just--

453
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,000
 or fiberglass, or whatever they're made of. So it's a new--

454
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000
 exposure that we don't have right now. And so that's

455
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,000
 really what we're going to look for. We're going to see how safe we can keep it.

456
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,000
 -

457
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,000
 Yes. If we could set a date down the road, yeah, that would be my recommendation

458
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
 as well, in conjunction with the safety information.

459
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,000
 - And maybe we could get feedback from

460
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,000
 the police department, from, you know, crash data, anything-- anyone else

461
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,000
 that has comments about how this is playing out. And of course, part of the

462
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,000
 safety is-- I think the streets around the campuses tend to be safer and slower

463
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,000
 streets, fortunately. And so that'll be a good sign. But this will allow us to make sure

464
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,000
 that that's the case. So, yeah. So, Brian, if we could

465
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,000
 add that to the kind of our direction

466
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,000
 and staff direction is that we would like to have an update. I think we--

467
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
 whatever a reasonable amount of time for that would be, whether it's six months,

468
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
 would that be a reasonable amount of time to return to this in six months?

469
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,000
 Will we have enough information? - I would recommend a year because we've got to get this through

470
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
 council and we're going to bring it back to you one more time when we do that. So

471
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,000
 it'll probably be three or four months before this is adopted. And I'd like to give us at least

472
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000
 six months worth of experience. - Well, what if it was six months

473
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000
 from implementation? What if that was our-- - That's fine. That's perfect. - Right. So that would-- okay.

474
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,000
 So six months from this going into effect,

475
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,000
 we want this to come back to council for an update on how it's going. - Okay.

476
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,000
 - Okay. All right. If there's no other-- are there any other comments from commissioners

477
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,000
 before I move on?

478
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,000
 Okay. All right. - I think Becky's got her.

479
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,000
 - Do we need-- sorry, Becky. - You have to have a consensus

480
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,000
 from the committee by vote again. - Okay.

481
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,000
 So if I can-- - I think it's by vote. Sorry. - Okay.

482
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000
 So if I can summarize, I think our consensus is that

483
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,000
 the commissioners are

484
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,000
 okay with the current plan of golf carts around universities on

485
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000
 university streets, but would like an update six months after implementation

486
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,000
 so that we can better understand how that's working

487
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,000
 and consider whether it should be expanded. Does that

488
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,000
 reflect our sentiment?

489
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,000
 - I would like to-- - Okay. All right. - Yay. - Go ahead. Okay.

490
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,000
 So if you are-- - Commissioner Carr.

491
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,000
 - Yep. We'll go down the list. Commissioner Carr. - Yay for that.

492
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,000
 - Commissioner Thurmond. - Yay for that.

493
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,000
 - Commissioner King. - Yay.

494
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,000
 - And Commissioner Baker. - Yes.

495
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,000
 - I also vote yay. And so that is a 5-0 vote in support

496
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,000
 of that recommendation. Okay. We will move on to

497
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,000
 our next item, which is item C, TSC 20-022.

498
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000
 Receive a report, hold a discussion, give staff direction regarding the process

499
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,000
 of establishing speed limits in the city of--

500
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,000
 - All right. Thank you.

501
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000
 Once again, Brian John, City Traffic Engineer.

502
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,000
 Screen go.

503
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,000
 Can you see the presentation?

504
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,000
 - Yes. - Okay. So this is really an informational

505
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,000
 item. It is tied to the speed limit

506
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,000
 that you saw several months ago

507
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,000
 where we basically codified all the speed limits--not codified--well,

508
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,000
 we put them all into one ordinance. All the posted speed limits, all the

509
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,000
 codified speed limits. And what this presentation

510
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,000
 is all about is giving you some background

511
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,000
 and some exposure on how we're going to go through the update

512
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,000
 process for speed limits. So

513
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,000
 a little bit of background on speed zoning in Texas, what the law says

514
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,000
 we can do, what it says we can't do. And then we're going to look at some emerging

515
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,000
 and alternative speed zoning methods. NACTO's got some,

516
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,000
 ITE's got some, FHWA's got some.

517
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,000
 And then we'll look at some next steps and some timeline. So

518
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,000
 speed zoning in Texas. If you'll remember, we talked about

519
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,000
 the prima facie speed. And this is, I think, Commissioner King said

520
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,000
 that even if they're not posted, he thinks their roads are

521
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,000
 all 30. Well, in fact,

522
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,000
 if there is no sign, it's 30. And so that's the prima facie speed

523
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,000
 on anything that's not a freeway or a highway with a number or not a

524
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,000
 number. All city streets start out at 30 miles an hour.

525
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,000
 And if an alley starts at 15. So that

526
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
 first one, this is our purview for

527
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,000
 truly modifying speeds. We have the right to suggest a speed limit on

528
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,000
 I-35. Typically we allow the transportation

529
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,000
 commission to establish those speeds, TechStop.

530
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,000
 But we want to focus on city streets

531
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,000
 that don't have a number. And we can raise

532
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,000
 or lower that prima facie speed by conducting an engineering and traffic

533
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,000
 investigation. It applies to all city streets. So this investigation

534
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
 is something that was developed in the 60s

535
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,000
 and it's all based on how fast drivers are

536
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,000
 comfortable traveling. So if you've got a flat,

537
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,000
 straight road, how fast are you comfortable driving? Well,

538
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,000
 pretty fast. So the process is established to,

539
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,000
 and let me get to this next, is established to recognize the

540
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,000
 85th percentile as that speed, you know, that

541
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,000
 normal and prudent driver would drive. And it's based on

542
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,000
 some research from the 60s

543
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000
 where you can see the average speed, the normal curve, and then this crash

544
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,000
 curve, and they identified, it's really

545
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,000
 close to 85, between 85 and 90. This point is

546
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,000
 your least exposure to a crash.

547
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,000
 People don't drive like they did in 1967 or so.

548
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,000
 So most professionals are

549
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,000
 beginning to understand that the 85th percentile is a little outdated.

550
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,000
 So the administrative code says that we have

551
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,000
 to use this 85th percentile to establish our speed. We've got

552
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,000
 two codes. Let me back up a little bit. We've got the transportation code, which

553
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000
 establishes the prima facie speed and gives us the right to

554
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,000
 lower the speed or raise the speed based on this study,

555
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,000
 and then we've got the administrative code that tells us how to conduct the study

556
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,000
 and what we can do once we get the results. So we can adjust,

557
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,000
 based on the information in the Texas administrative code,

558
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,000
 we can adjust that 85th percentile, typically it says

559
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,000
 within five miles an hour, up or down, to reflect for

560
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,000
 site distance restrictions, crash history, driveway density,

561
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,000
 and a number of other factors. Anything that we think makes it unsafe

562
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,000
 or

563
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,000
 unsafe to drive that speed, that's in a lowering case, or

564
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000
 if we don't have any driveways at all, we can go a little bit higher.

565
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,000
 So I want to focus on lowering the prima facie speed because that seems

566
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,000
 to be the biggest area of request

567
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,000
 where everybody wants their speeds to be 20 miles an hour, and this is again, we're going back to

568
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,000
 the transportation code now. It says we can lower that prima facie

569
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,000
 speed of 30 if we do the investigation,

570
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
 and the investigation says it's unreasonable or unsafe

571
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000
 to drive 30. And remember, not remember, let me point out that

572
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,000
 this method strictly focuses

573
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,000
 on vehicular traffic, does not address pedestrian traffic,

574
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,000
 bicycle traffic, transit, strictly on a

575
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,000
 single occupant vehicle. And so if the driver

576
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,000
 feels, the study shows that it is unsafe or unreasonable for a driver to drive

577
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,000
 30, that's one way we can lower. This roadway

578
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000
 that we're going to lower has to be two lane undivided, and it cannot have a

579
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,000
 number on it, so it's got to be off system. So we can't, a four lane roadway can't

580
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,000
 be 20, a three lane roadway can't be 20. They used

581
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,000
 to have a width, I think of 35 feet, that was the most, the widest road, but

582
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,000
 they continue to modify. And then even if we,

583
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,000
 all of this is true, the lowest we can go is 25.

584
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000
 So we can't sign, with the exception of a school zone,

585
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000
 we cannot post 20 miles an hour, but we

586
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,000
 do. So if you'll remember, we had quite a list of streets

587
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,000
 in the city of Denton that in that speed limit ordinance that you saw

588
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,000
 previously were 20 miles an hour and less. So we even had some

589
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,000
 15s in there. When we're working through with our

590
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,000
 legal team on how we got to

591
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000
 that point, it happened obviously quite some time in the past.

592
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,000
 So here's a list of the roadways with non prima facie speeds.

593
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,000
 Some of these are below 30, some are above 30. But this just gives you

594
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,000
 an idea of the number of streets that

595
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,000
 we have from day one to now

596
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000
 that we've modified. We've done the speed study, we've lowered,

597
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,000
 we've gone below 30, we've done the speed study, we've gone above 30. So anything that's

598
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,000
 40 or 45 or even 50,

599
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,000
 technically we have somewhere in the past performed a speed study

600
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,000
 and shown this to be the 85th percentile or within five miles an hour

601
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
 of the 85th percentile. And we set those, we post those speeds

602
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,000
 based on that approach. So now let's talk about

603
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,000
 some of the emerging methodologies and what

604
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,000
 elements they take into consideration that might allow us

605
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,000
 to vary more than five miles an hour from that 85th percentile.

606
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,000
 So we've got a couple of different approaches. Target

607
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,000
 speed limits. This really comes into play

608
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,000
 with design. You design the roadway to

609
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,000
 basically allow the speed you want to post.

610
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,000
 So it calls for tighter centerline curves,

611
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,000
 little narrower, on street side friction, which is parking,

612
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,000
 or other elements. Context sensitive speed

613
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,000
 zoning. So if you're in an urban district, 45

614
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,000
 miles an hour around the square, it doesn't make sense. If you're in a park

615
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,000
 area or if you're adjacent to schools or if you're adjacent to a lot of commerce

616
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,000
 where we've got pedestrians and transit and cyclists, if you've got

617
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,000
 an on-street bike lane, those kind of context sensitive characteristics

618
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000
 are what we want to be able to use to pull that speed limit

619
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,000
 down or take it up or however we want to use it.

620
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,000
 Slow zones and sensitive areas. And this is very much, it's just a

621
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,000
 kind of a hyper context sensitive. So if

622
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,000
 you've got, and I'll use, I know they're

623
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,000
 private streets, but I'll use Robson Ranch as a

624
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,000
 context or a sensitive area where you've got

625
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,000
 possibly an elderly population, you've got a lot of pedestrians.

626
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,000
 This is really what we're looking for is

627
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,000
 is there a geographic area, maybe not just

628
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,000
 one segment of a roadway, but is there a geographic area that is sensitive

629
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,000
 in nature to really desiring lower speeds.

630
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,000
 And then there's one that kind of puts all of this together. This is the ITE

631
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,000
 road risk method where it looks at land use

632
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,000
 and driveway and

633
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,000
 on-street bike and ped facilities. So

634
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,000
 what we're going to do is use these

635
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,000
 approaches to modify that 85th percentile speed.

636
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,000
 More than the five mile an hour guidance

637
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,000
 that's in the administrative code. The administrative code doesn't say we can't go more,

638
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,000
 but you have to justify it somehow. And so this

639
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,000
 is the, these are the methodologies that we want to use

640
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,000
 to modify those speeds. However, we can still go no lower than

641
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,000
 25 because of that language that's in the transportation code.

642
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,000
 So there has been a push and a number of

643
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,000
 in past years and a number of different legislatures where large

644
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,000
 groups have asked to lower the prima facie speed to 25, but it has not

645
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,000
 yet been successful. And I have a feeling that it's going to be continued to be

646
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,000
 pushed. And if we adjust or if the state adjusts

647
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,000
 the prima facie to 25, part of that burden

648
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,000
 for the city is that any 30 mile an hour speed limit we have

649
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,000
 unless we have a speed that shows it's not, you know,

650
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,000
 it justifies a higher speed, we've got to resign that.

651
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,000
 And so it can get expensive. But the goal of

652
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,000
 this approach is to

653
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,000
 really put down what we think are appropriate speed limits and what are reasonable

654
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,000
 for either the geographic or the characteristic

655
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,000
 of the area in which that roadway passes.

656
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,000
 So next steps and timeline.

657
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,000
 In July, the city council approved a

658
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,000
 contract with a vendor for us to collect speed

659
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,000
 and volume data across the city. Again, because the administrative

660
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,000
 code and the transportation code both say we have to use the 85 percentile,

661
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,000
 we still have to collect that volume and speed data for vehicles.

662
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,000
 But this contract is all video based, which allows us to pick up pedestrian

663
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,000
 and cyclist volumes as well so that we can identify those corridors

664
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,000
 that have higher ped volumes or higher cyclist volumes

665
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,000
 and then justify, use that to justify

666
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,000
 a speed reduction. So we're going to look at speed and volume for sure,

667
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,000
 but we're also going to look at the road characteristics. Is it a narrow roadway?

668
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,000
 Is the roadway surface in bad shape? Is it

669
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,000
 divided? Just basically bringing that

670
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,000
 context, that characteristic element of the roadway into consideration

671
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,000
 on, and I'll use Carol as an example,

672
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,000
 if you looked at the roadway,

673
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,000
 it's six lanes, it's divided, it probably shouldn't be 30.

674
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,000
 So based on that. So we just want to bring all the data

675
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,000
 in or look at road classification. One of the key

676
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,000
 for me, one of the key considerations is driveway density. If you're just talking about

677
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,000
 vehicle on vehicle, the more conflict points, and

678
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,000
 I believe we saw that in the one-way, two-way

679
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,000
 presentation several months ago, the more conflict points,

680
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,000
 the more opportunities we have for crashes. And so if we've got

681
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,000
 an area of town, and again, I'll use the

682
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,000
 town core, and even Elm and Locust as an example,

683
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,000
 those are older developments.

684
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,000
 It's a lot of very closely spaced driveways. We've got people turning in

685
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,000
 and turning out, so that can be a justification for a lower speed.

686
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,000
 And then do we have traffic control in the areas that a lot of all-way stops? Is there signals

687
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,000
 in the corridor? And then the adjacent land use.

688
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000
 If you're adjacent to schools, churches,

689
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,000
 any of these areas that have the high potential for pedestrian

690
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,000
 and bicycle traffic, that's what we're going to try and grab and pull into this model.

691
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,000
 And really do a much more thorough

692
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,000
 examination and justification of what we're going to post

693
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,000
 as a speed limit. So

694
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,000
 the next step, and let me back up real quick because I want to talk about the timelines.

695
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,000
 This data collection, if you remember

696
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,000
 the street list for the non-prima facie speeds,

697
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,000
 there's about 60 or so, that's going to be the speed limits that we

698
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,000
 re-evaluate first, because those are already non-prima facie,

699
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,000
 they're already established. We want to validate those and make

700
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,000
 changes to that list as the first step.

701
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,000
 So we're going to collect that data as the core, and then

702
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,000
 expand as our budget allows, and it's not a huge budget, so

703
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,000
 we want to make sure that we at least capture

704
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,000
 the data for all the existing non-prima facie speeds.

705
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,000
 And that's going to take six to eight months. So

706
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,000
 after that, once we have that data in hand, then becomes the manipulation

707
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,000
 of the characteristics of the roadway, the adjacent

708
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,000
 land use, the driveway density, and we will

709
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,000
 look at how much we can justify

710
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,000
 as a variance from that 85th percentile speed, because

711
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,000
 again, on a flat, straight roadway,

712
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,000
 what are you comfortable driving? And that's why people, typically

713
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,000
 why people speed is because we have built roadways

714
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,000
 that are very comfortable to drive fast. So

715
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,000
 we have to pull that down slowly, a lot of education,

716
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,000
 a lot of modification, we've got a traffic calming program

717
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,000
 that's in its infancy, we're still pushing that through, so bringing those tools

718
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,000
 in on those roadways that are already built to try and

719
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
 accomplish. If we recommend a speed that's less than the 85th percentile,

720
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,000
 then how are we going to

721
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:20,000
 bring some kind of compliance into that roadway?

722
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,000
 And then after that, we'll bring that back

723
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,000
 for an ordinance update, we'll take it to this commission,

724
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,000
 we'll take it to mobility commission, and then ultimately to council, and that's going to take several

725
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,000
 months in itself just to be able to get on everybody's calendar.

726
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,000
 We're talking about the administrative code says that

727
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,000
 speed limits that are non prima facie should be

728
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,000
 updated at least every three to five years.

729
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,000
 So with that list and with our budget constraints,

730
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,000
 we will bring back, and I'd like to do this at least once a year,

731
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,000
 and maybe twice a year, a handful of roadways as the city

732
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,000
 changes characteristics of the corridors,

733
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,000
 change, we need to be responsive and

734
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,000
 say, okay, this used to be on a fringe area, now it's, you know, you're totally

735
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,000
 surrounded by single-family homes with school-aged children, you've got a brand new school

736
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,000
 that wasn't there when the speed limit was established, or you know,

737
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,000
 we've got new commercial, or we've got a new bike facility

738
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,000
 on street. As these things change, we want to be able to bring those back

739
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,000
 and recommend a modification if the modification is

740
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,000
 supported. So with that, I'll stop sharing, and we can have a discussion.

741
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,000
 There's not really any guidance. This is really an informational

742
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,000
 item, but if you want to ask questions or just have a general discussion,

743
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,000
 I think that'd be fine. And I'll defer to Council if we're

744
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,000
 off posting with a general discussion.

745
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,000
 I have a couple

746
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,000
 questions, Brian. Well, a couple questions and comments.

747
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,000
 I, you know, as you mentioned,

748
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,000
 I'm very curious about whether the formula's right. You're saying people

749
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,000
 have addressed this formula, addressed in the '60s, but I'll

750
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,000
 address one thing you brought up. You mentioned Carol as an example.

751
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,000
 Carol clearly can allow for high speeds, but I

752
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,000
 think it's because it's designed wrong, right? Carol, to me, is designed

753
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,000
 inappropriately for where it's placed, and so that's the challenge of not

754
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,000
 just looking at this right, which historically has happened from the perspective of drivers

755
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,000
 and cars and how fast they move to safety. And if I live on right off

756
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,000
 Carol, and you see people run for their lives across the street, it's awful.

757
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,000
 All the time, I see it every week that people sprint

758
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,000
 across the street hoping that no cars hit them.

759
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,000
 And so, you know, but if you look at it just from the driver's perspective, the street,

760
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,000
 you could say, we can go 50 on this street, and it would be fine.

761
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,000
 So then that brings me to my second suggestion, and I'm primarily talking about the stretch of

762
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,000
 Carol closest to the square, closest to the core, right, particularly

763
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,000
 for example, streets like Hickory and Mulberry that are

764
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,000
 more pedestrians and cyclists going between places like UNT and the square

765
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,000
 and the downtown transit county authority.

766
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,000
 Did I say that right? DCTA, downtown where the A train

767
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,000
 is. I've suggested this before, and I know some cities have implemented it. Have we

768
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,000
 looked at potentially having like identifying boundaries of the core

769
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,000
 that we define? I would suggest something like Belle, Carol,

770
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,000
 Eagle, and what am I missing, McKinney,

771
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,000
 potentially is like boundaries of the primary core and having

772
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,000
 a single speed limit for all of those streets. And I know some cities, what they've done

773
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,000
 is they have special signage that kind of both serves as a marker for where you

774
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,000
 are, right, it says like square or something like this,

775
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,000
 and then has a common speed limit. And while, because in most cases from my understanding,

776
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:00,000
 people tend to drive as fast as the road tells them. If you have wide

777
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,000
 lanes, they drive fast. If you have skinny lanes, they tend to drive slower, right.

778
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,000
 Like you said, if it's straight, they drive fast. If it's curvy, they drive slower. So they tend

779
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,000
 to indicate it. But from what I've read, there's been some

780
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,000
 success when you have like a unified kind of

781
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,000
 speed limit approach in like a certain area, because people then tend to pick up

782
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,000
 on that. It also is a signal that they're entering a different type of area.

783
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,000
 So would that be a possibility about looking at justifying

784
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,000
 the core where there's increased pedestrians, bicyclists, a lot of that

785
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,000
 activity as markers for justifying a 25 mile per hour

786
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:40,000
 speed limit which is lower than the prima facie speed that you mentioned?

787
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,000
 Sure. And that would be, that would really fall under the category of that sensitive zone.

788
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,000
 You identify the urban core and call it a sensitive zone.

789
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,000
 However, and this is a caveat that Texas has that a lot of states don't,

790
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,000
 the administrative code still says we have to use that 85th percentile.

791
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,000
 And so we have some procedures that we have

792
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,000
 to follow. What we're looking for with this new approach

793
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,000
 is additional justification for

794
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,000
 reducing that 85th percentile speed.

795
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,000
 So I would totally agree with you that, you know, Carol,

796
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,000
 it was designed back in the day when bigger was better, man.

797
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,000
 We didn't need six lanes. We can zip up and down.

798
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,000
 So now that the neighborhood has maybe changed a little bit,

799
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,000
 and we've got some more, a little bit more urban character, that's the kind of,

800
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,000
 that's exactly the approach that we're trying to do, is take some of those

801
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,000
 non-vehicular characteristics and plug them into the formula,

802
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,000
 the equation, as justifications that it is unreasonable or unsafe

803
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
 to drive that 85th percentile. So if

804
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,000
 we've got a lot of pedestrians or we've got an on-street

805
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,000
 bike lane, then to me, it's

806
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,000
 unreasonable to be able to drive as fast as you want to drive because these are

807
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,000
 very much at-risk populations. They, you know, again,

808
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,000
 you have 3,000-pound pieces of steel versus a bicycle or a pedestrian,

809
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,000
 we know who's going to win. So if we can justify

810
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,000
 and quantify those characteristics, then we can justify

811
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,000
 that lower speed limit. Now, I will say that Texas does not have

812
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,000
 a blanket speed limit. Other states do.

813
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,000
 We don't.

814
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,000
 We have to go through street by street and do that study and

815
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,000
 determine those characteristics. And some of that may help us decide where

816
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,000
 that boundary is. If we see a drop of, you know, drop off in pedestrian

817
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:44,000
 or cyclist activity four blocks from the square, it's really just around the

818
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,000
 square in four blocks each way, then maybe that's the natural

819
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,000
 geographic boundary. But that's exactly what we intend to do.

820
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,000
 And I'll also point out that maybe even the

821
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,000
 built geographic boundary is a better way to say it because sometimes people don't walk

822
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,000
 in areas because the roads are unsafe, right, because they feel unsafe. And so

823
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,000
 if we redo any of those streets over time,

824
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,000
 potentially we could see pedestrian and bicyclist activity increase

825
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,000
 in those areas if they were built better. Correct. And that's the challenge

826
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,000
 on the built environment is how do you morph that into

827
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,000
 what you want. Here's what you've got and what are our tools to change it

828
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,000
 to provide the facility that we really need now versus what we needed

829
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,000
 30 years ago or thought we needed. City of Fort Worth

830
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,000
 is a great example. They've got six-lane roadways everywhere.

831
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:40,000
 And it just, they don't need it. But that was

832
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,000
 I mean,

833
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,000
 I may have been part of that problem, but because I was a consultant 30 years ago,

834
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,000
 but everybody wanted

835
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,000
 this high density of, you know, a lot of cars,

836
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,000
 a lot of traffic, and it just, it never happened. And so especially with

837
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,000
 now everybody's working from home, we've, you know, we

838
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,000
 will see lower volumes than we had a year ago.

839
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,000
 So, and that may not change. People may continue to work from home. Now that we know

840
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,000
 we can, and we can do it quite successfully as we are right now,

841
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,000
 that environment may lend itself to

842
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,000
 allowing us to change some of those built environment roadways.

843
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,000
 Comments from other commissioners?

844
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
 Questions? Commissioner Carr?

845
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,000
 I'd like to add on to this last discussion.

846
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:40,000
 I ride bikes with

847
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,000
 a group of women, and we often get people who join us who

848
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:48,000
 feel frustrated that they

849
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,000
 want to ride, but they can't because they feel fear

850
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,000
 for their life when they get on the road. So I appreciate

851
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,000
 you guys looking at ways that we can lower the speed limit

852
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,000
 so that people might feel more comfortable riding on

853
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,000
 the road with a bike. Because as much as, you know, they want to, they get on the road

854
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,000
 and, you know, you get a car that gets too close,

855
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,000
 they get run off the road. I've heard numerous stories.

856
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,000
 I really appreciate us looking at these speed limits and trying to see what we can do to lower them.

857
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,000
 Thank you.

858
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:30,000
 Other commissioner comments?

859
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,000
 I had

860
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,000
 one question on,

861
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,000
 it was, I believe, that roads that are

862
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,000
 divided or multiple lanes cannot be

863
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,000
 prima facie or non prima facie. You mentioned three lane.

864
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,000
 Does that include road diet areas like Eagle and Malone?

865
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,000
 Well, so that's just basically the transportation code says it has to be

866
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,000
 a two lane roadway. If we want to go below 30.

867
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,000
 So we've got two thresholds that we're working against. One is that

868
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,000
 85th percentile, which is the measured speed, and then

869
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,000
 the other is that 30 mile an hour, that's the prima facie speed.

870
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,000
 To go below the prima facie,

871
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,000
 we have to have that unreasonable or unsafe determination.

872
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,000
 It has to be a two lane roadway and we can only go to

873
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,000
 25. That's clearly stated in the transportation code. The administrative

874
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,000
 code is much more vague and really more process oriented.

875
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,000
 So a three lane roadway technically wouldn't

876
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,000
 qualify. So if we had a, and we're looking at one right now,

877
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,000
 Mingo, and based on our

878
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,000
 traffic studies that we've done with our mobility plan update,

879
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,000
 we think a three lane roadway is more than adequate because you've got the railroad on one side

880
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,000
 and you've got a lot fewer crossings. So you don't, without all those intersections,

881
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,000
 you know, you just don't need that turning capacity, which is where typically

882
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,000
 you widen at an intersection. That also allows us to put a side path,

883
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,000
 which is kind of a win-win because it gets the bike facility off the

884
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,000
 street. But technically that roadway couldn't be less than 30

885
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:18,000
 because it's three lanes. These are just

886
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,000
 some of the challenges that we're up against as we work through the transportation code, which is

887
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:26,000
 kind of archaic and the administrative code, which is kind of vague.

888
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,000
 It's, we're

889
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,000
 looking, we're just looking for ways we can get creative on really lowering that

890
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,000
 going more than five miles an hour

891
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,000
 and I'm going to say below, that measured 85th percentile speed.

892
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:46,000
 Just because people feel like that's appropriate speed,

893
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,000
 if we've got extenuating circumstances or characteristics that

894
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,000
 show otherwise or should show otherwise, then that's what we want to be able to plug into that equation

895
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,000
 and pull that speed limit down. Even if we go out and measure a speed of 45,

896
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,000
 that's the 85th percentile, that's too fast.

897
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:06,000
 I mean, it's just too fast for any kind of corridor where you've got

898
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,000
 the potential for pedestrians and cyclists, so personal opinion.

899
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:14,000
 But that's what we're trying to do. So yeah, the three-lane roadway wouldn't

900
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,000
 technically qualify for

901
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,000
 the 25. And that's marked lanes, not just, I mean, it

902
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,000
 can be, like I say, they used to have a width limit on it, but

903
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:30,000
 if you have a 36-foot wide roadway, you know, technically

904
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:34,000
 you could have three or four lanes in there, but if it's

905
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,000
 a residential street with parking on both sides, it's marked for two lanes.

906
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:42,000
 So it's a functionality

907
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,000
 test versus really a width test, which I think is why they took the width

908
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,000
 criteria out.

909
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,000
 And to piggyback on to Daniel's talk about the core, I would

910
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,000
 suggest that Parkway or Congress be considered the northern

911
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,000
 boundary, because that would pull in Emily Fowler Library in Quaker Town.

912
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:06,000
 Right. Good.

913
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,000
 Other commissioners with comments

914
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,000
 or questions?

915
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,000
 The

916
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,000
 clarification real quick, but it does, the item

917
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,000
 C does ask us to give staff direction

918
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,000
 on this. I mean, would we, I know that generally what I get, I get your

919
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,000
 point, Brian, that you guys have a process that you have to follow, right, for this

920
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,000
 anyway, but is that, should we give

921
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:42,000
 just a kind of brief overview of what we talked about? Is that

922
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,000
 or am I reading the agenda wrong? No, it's fine. When we took it to

923
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,000
 council, we made the same presentation to council, we took the

924
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:54,000
 give direction out, and so it just snuck back in, because that's our

925
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:58,000
 standard caption. You can give whatever direction

926
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,000
 you'd like, yes, go forward, but you kind of have given direction

927
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000
 about, hey, let's look at identifying some geographic

928
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,000
 areas like the core.

929
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:14,000
 I'll leave that up to you, whatever direction you want to offer staff.

930
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,000
 Okay, I think based on this conversation, and please commissioners, correct me

931
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,000
 if I'm wrong, the commission would like to, so I'd like to

932
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,000
 propose that the commission would like to see

933
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:30,000
 consideration of possible urban zones

934
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:34,000
 that could be, where these speed limits can be looked at,

935
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:38,000
 potentially in uniform, and this could, when we consider

936
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,000
 clearly how this affects cyclists, and how these, you know,

937
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,000
 how far this should extend out, as Clay pointed out, Commissioner Thurman

938
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,000
 pointed out, you know, potentially looking beyond just that immediate area of the core, but other

939
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,000
 streets that make a lot of sense, like Oakland and others.

940
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,000
 So, if that's, does that seem to represent the

941
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,000
 commission's viewpoint?

942
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,000
 Okay, if there's no additions, all right, no additions,

943
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,000
 then we can kind of move that forward as a item, so we

944
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,000
 can just, for all in favor, and I'll go, we'll go down the list

945
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,000
 of that recommendation, Commissioner Carr?

946
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,000
 In favor? Aye. Commissioner Thurman?

947
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,000
 Yes. Commissioner King? Jeff King, yes.

948
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,000
 Commissioner Baker? Yes.

949
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:34,000
 And I'm also a yes, so we have a 5-0

950
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,000
 vote to recommend looking at those items as you all move forward, and we

951
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:42,000
 look forward to hearing about it in the future. Okay,

952
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,000
 on to our last item on the agenda today, item D,

953
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:50,000
 TSC 20-023, staff

954
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,000
 reports. One, we have a staff update memo regarding bollards for closing downtown

955
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:58,000
 streets. Also, Alice University pedestrian access,

956
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,000
 senior transportation planner, bicycle pedestrian, and ADA coordinator, and

957
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,000
 then also an item on identified items of interest for future staff reports.

958
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,000
 All right, thank you very much, Chair, and this is Brian Jahn still,

959
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,000
 city traffic engineer. Let me share my screen.

960
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:22,000
 Okay, so can you all see that?

961
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,000
 Am I muted?

962
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,000
 We can see it. Okay, all right. I just, I always ask because

963
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:36,000
 sometimes it doesn't work. So the

964
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,000
 first item on the update is something that we discussed at

965
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,000
 mobility, and we thought it would be of interest to the commission

966
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,000
 closing downtown streets, specifically

967
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:52,000
 around the square. Right now we use vehicles,

968
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,000
 fire engines, police squad cars,

969
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,000
 and there has been a statement of interest of

970
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,000
 can we find a better way, can we use bollards,

971
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:08,000
 because there's a lot of different types of bollards out there,

972
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,000
 and they come in four main types.

973
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,000
 The embedded bollards, those are permanent. So that's the permanent bollards

974
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,000
 around the federal building. The surface-mounted bollards are

975
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,000
 removable. So you have either a base or a

976
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,000
 receiving sleeve in the street, and you put this bollard in or

977
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,000
 bolt the bollard down. You've got rebounding bollards, and this is

978
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:36,000
 typically what we use on our bike lanes, and then retractable

979
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,000
 and removable bollards as well. So the retractable is that

980
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,000
 what you've seen on even

981
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:48,000
 wealthier federal buildings where they have the little hydraulic

982
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:52,000
 systems that can come up and down to allow traffic. So we're really

983
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,000
 only looking for something that is either retractable or removable because

984
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,000
 most times we want traffic to be able to circulate on those roadways.

985
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,000
 So we're a very limited number of days, truly,

986
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,000
 that we want to be able to block these off from a vehicular standpoint.

987
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,000
 And also one of the issues that we need to look at is whether or not

988
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:16,000
 these bollards will be designed to stop a vehicle. So

989
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,000
 it makes a difference on the type of bollard, but that's another

990
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,000
 consideration that the mobility committee has voiced.

991
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,000
 So here's some examples of removable and retractable.

992
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:32,000
 Upper right-hand corner, those are the hydraulic.

993
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:36,000
 That's an installed view.

994
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,000
 And then the yellow bollards here, basically

995
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,000
 you'll see there's a little receiver where you

996
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:48,000
 flip the thing up and you put the bollard in and then you

997
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:52,000
 bolt it on. City of Fort Worth uses these around

998
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,000
 Will Rogers Coliseum, specifically during the stock

999
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:00,000
 show and when they have events. They don't stop a vehicle, but they're easy

1000
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,000
 to install and remove. And then here's an example

1001
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,000
 of the hydraulics or those much more

1002
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:12,000
 permanent bollards going in. Very expensive process to install

1003
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:16,000
 something that is going to be permanently in the

1004
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,000
 roadway, retractable when you want to. They're also high maintenance and cost

1005
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,000
 more. So our recommendation

1006
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:28,000
 would be, and we're still in the preliminary stages,

1007
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,000
 is that we don't really consider the hydraulics.

1008
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,000
 We think the cost benefit for the City of Denton

1009
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,000
 at this time is probably not there.

1010
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,000
 We would suggest something more along the lines of

1011
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,000
 more along the lines of the surface mounted or

1012
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:52,000
 if we want to be able to stop a vehicle

1013
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:56,000
 there's a type of bollard that is just a

1014
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:00,000
 steel pipe, heavy pipe that you slide down into a receiving sleeve in the

1015
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,000
 street. Still requires some coring and some excavation and

1016
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,000
 some serious road work, but the removable factor

1017
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,000
 saves you a ton of money. It's really just a matter of

1018
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:16,000
 do you have to have a bobcat to install them, or can

1019
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,000
 somebody pick them up. If they're going to stop a vehicle,

1020
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:24,000
 an individual is probably not going to be able to pick them up.

1021
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:28,000
 We want to look at as we get into this a little further, we now know that

1022
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,000
 we would recommend we don't go with the hydraulic bollards, the retractables,

1023
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:36,000
 but what characteristics

1024
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,000
 of these bollards do we want to have? Do we want to have total vehicle protection?

1025
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:44,000
 Do we want to have something that's firm, but it's not going to block a vehicle,

1026
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,000
 or something that's really just topical in nature, and a visual barrier

1027
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:52,000
 instead of a true permanent barrier. This is just

1028
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:56,000
 our first blush as we move into identifying

1029
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:00,000
 where these want to be. Is it just the block around the square? Is it two blocks away?

1030
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:04,000
 Do we want to put these in other areas

1031
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,000
 in the square? That's a bigger discussion.

1032
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:12,000
 We have not had that discussion yet, but we will bring this back for

1033
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,000
 your input as we develop this topic of conversation.

1034
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:20,000
 The next one I know is of interest to this

1035
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,000
 group, and that's the Alice University Pedestrian Access.

1036
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:28,000
 Here's the current condition. We've got a crosswalk, and we've got a landing,

1037
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,000
 and then we've got a curb. It goes nowhere.

1038
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,000
 Don't tie into a sidewalk. It ties into the top

1039
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,000
 of a storm drain that goes nowhere.

1040
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:44,000
 I know the Commission has been asking for quite some time

1041
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,000
 for us to pursue a remedy here, and we have in fact

1042
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:52,000
 met with TxDOT. We've met with the property owners. We have a plan in

1043
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,000
 place right here that allows us

1044
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,000
 to ramp down, create a landing, and then

1045
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,000
 allow a pedestrian to proceed into the parking lot.

1046
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:08,000
 One of the things we're probably going to add to this is some

1047
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:12,000
 markings, some striping to create a buffer zone so that

1048
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:16,000
 we don't have that vehicular traffic zipping through here

1049
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,000
 adjacent to this curbway. There's a lot of room to push the vehicles

1050
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,000
 out a little further, and so right now

1051
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,000
 we've got this plan.

1052
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,000
 We're ready to move forward with construction. We're looking for some funding,

1053
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,000
 and then the construction that you see here is probably less than

1054
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:40,000
 $5,000. Most of the concrete's there. We're simply going to

1055
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,000
 remove part of it and ramp down. It's not a lot of curb work.

1056
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:48,000
 It's not a lot of flat work, so we're excited about getting this

1057
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:52,000
 knocked out in the next few months. And then the last one

1058
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:56,000
 is something I think is also of interest to this group.

1059
01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:00,000
 You'll remember that Mark Oliphant, our bike ped coordinator,

1060
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,000
 left the city this past June, and so we are

1061
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:08,000
 currently, the position is posted

1062
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,000
 as a senior planner, bicycle, pedestrian, and ADA coordinator.

1063
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:16,000
 So we've rolled a bunch of new roles and responsibilities into this.

1064
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,000
 We've beefed the position up. We may be looking for a unicorn.

1065
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,000
 Some people have said that, but we've got four applicants

1066
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:28,000
 already, and it's only been out I think a week or so. So we're excited

1067
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:32,000
 about the possibility of bringing this person on board to help with

1068
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,000
 ADA issues, bicycle issues, pedestrian issues,

1069
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:40,000
 but also transportation planning issues, which bring in

1070
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,000
 that whole context-sensitive, complete street, vision zero,

1071
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:48,000
 and the mobility plan update, all of those different aspects of

1072
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,000
 non-vehicular travel that we're seeing

1073
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:56,000
 such an insurgence of. So we're trying to be

1074
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:00,000
 reactive and proactive, actually,

1075
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:04,000
 and trying to get some good staff experience on board

1076
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,000
 so that we can move forward with some projects that we've

1077
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:12,000
 identified that are pedestrian or bike-oriented.

1078
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:16,000
 So hopefully within the next month or so, we will have

1079
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,000
 hired this person, and we'll bring him

1080
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,000
 to--I'm being very hopeful--our next meeting in January, we'll

1081
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,000
 have this person on board, and we'll all get to meet him or her.

1082
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,000
 So with that, that's the end of the staff update. I'm going to

1083
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,000
 stop sharing. We can have a discussion on any of those topics if you want to,

1084
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,000
 and then if not, then you can proceed into items for future meetings.

1085
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:50,000
 Regarding ALICE, has there been any discussion with the property owner about

1086
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:54,000
 striping a pathway from that sidewalk

1087
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:58,000
 up to the businesses? We have, and

1088
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:02,000
 they were--

1089
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,000
 they said they would consider it. They were not--

1090
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,000
 that's a long way, and

1091
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:14,000
 that parking lot is just--typically,

1092
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:18,000
 you would have a--

1093
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,000
 bless you--a little bit safer pathway.

1094
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:26,000
 The city--I'm uncomfortable doing that with city forces

1095
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:30,000
 because it's so much, 100% private property.

1096
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,000
 So we will continue to encourage them to consider

1097
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,000
 some kind of a pathway, but

1098
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:42,000
 I cannot make any guarantees. Our goal was just to get the barrier

1099
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,000
 out of the way, because it just didn't make sense that we have a crosswalk

1100
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:50,000
 to nowhere, or to an island, basically.

1101
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:54,000
 So we just want to take the barrier off the next side.

1102
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,000
 I realize that would be on the property owner to do that, just if they--

1103
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,000
 I was wanting to gauge of how amenable they were to it.

1104
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:06,000
 They didn't say no, so that's always

1105
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:10,000
 positive. Okay. Yeah, there's plenty of

1106
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,000
 area to accommodate that. Also, on the

1107
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:18,000
 new transportation

1108
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:22,000
 planner, you mentioned that they would be one of three ADA

1109
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,000
 coordinators. Who are the other--what departments are the other two?

1110
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,000
 So we have HR, and

1111
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,000
 we have Becky Davini, who is--the city engineers,

1112
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,000
 there's an HR ADA coordinator in

1113
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:42,000
 Facilities. Well,

1114
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,000
 no, I take it back. Becky is currently

1115
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,000
 an ADA coordinator, and she would be transferring her role

1116
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:54,000
 in the right-of-way to this position. We have a Facilities

1117
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:58,000
 HR--I mean, a Facilities ADA coordinator and an HR ADA coordinator.

1118
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:02,000
 And I used to know all three names, but I think

1119
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,000
 the Facilities person left,

1120
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:10,000
 and I'm not sure who it is in HR, but that's the three--the

1121
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:14,000
 stool, Becky likes to say.

1122
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,000
 So we've got--this person is responsible for right-of-way,

1123
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:22,000
 so a lot of PROAG, and

1124
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:26,000
 but not so much in buildings and facilities. That's the Facilities person.

1125
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,000
 But anything in a public right-of-way would be accommodated

1126
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:34,000
 or overseen by this person. Okay, how would any

1127
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:38,000
 request be filtered to these three? Who would be doing

1128
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,000
 the filtering? There is a process, and I don't know

1129
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,000
 it off the top of my head, but in our ordinance that identifies

1130
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:50,000
 the ADA

1131
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,000
 coordinators, there is a process by which people can petition

1132
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,000
 action.

1133
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:02,000
 I can send you a link or--I've seen it, I know

1134
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:06,000
 I've seen it in a presentation a year or so ago,

1135
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:10,000
 and I remember seeing it when I was looking for the list of--

1136
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:14,000
 I think it's on the website, in fact. If you just go to the cityofdetton.com

1137
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:18,000
 and look under ADA coordinators, it'll have the list of the people,

1138
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:22,000
 and it'll have the process by which you can petition action.

1139
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:26,000
 Okay. Is this transportation planner

1140
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,000
 going to be liaison to the committee like Mark was,

1141
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:34,000
 as well as ADA? I would

1142
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:38,000
 suspect so. I know that

1143
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:42,000
 Ryan probably would voice that same

1144
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:46,000
 hope. I have no reason to doubt that because the ADA

1145
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,000
 coordinator is such a large portion of this job description, that

1146
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:54,000
 would be the staff liaison for COPWD.

1147
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:58,000
 Right. It's going to--the ADA is going to take a very large

1148
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:02,000
 amount of their time, and so I'm a little concerned how they would be able to

1149
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:06,000
 do the bicycle coordinating and all of that,

1150
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:10,000
 as well as, you know, one thing we're lacking is public outreach

1151
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,000
 that we used to have with Julie.

1152
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:18,000
 So those are my comments.

1153
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:22,000
 I'll just second Commissioner Thurman's comments.

1154
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:26,000
 I mean, I think because initially this position didn't even include the term

1155
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:30,000
 bike or pedestrian, and it did it when it was re--so it

1156
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:34,000
 very much felt like we were de-emphasizing

1157
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,000
 pedestrians and bicyclists by the changing of this position,

1158
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:42,000
 which I'm concerned with, so I don't know if that's something that we could

1159
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:46,000
 send forward to council for further consideration about

1160
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,000
 how much dedicated time people are going to have towards these issues in the

1161
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:54,000
 city, because it does seem like this is being reduced, and I'm not

1162
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,000
 sure this--that's the right move as we continue to see density and

1163
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:02,000
 pedestrian and cyclist needs. So Commissioner

1164
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:06,000
 Thurman, I don't know, would you--I mean, would you want to make a, you know,

1165
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,000
 add a report or something on the amount of time

1166
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,000
 that this position is going to be dedicated towards these issues, so that

1167
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,000
 we can understand more fully where the city's moving on these?

1168
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:22,000
 Are there any historical records of how much time

1169
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:26,000
 Mark spent on pedestrian traffic issues versus ADA?

1170
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,000
 Not that I'm aware of. Yeah.

1171
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:34,000
 And technically, Mark was not the ADA coordinator.

1172
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:38,000
 Right. But he was liaison to the committee. Yes, yes.

1173
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:42,000
 And I understood that the coordinator was HR, capital projects,

1174
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:46,000
 and facilities. Yeah.

1175
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:50,000
 So would that be--could that be something we could get a report on about the

1176
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,000
 changing of these positions and how much time is going to be dedicated in these

1177
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,000
 people's jobs to do the work that previously Julie and Mark had been doing?

1178
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,000
 I think we can get an estimate. I don't--

1179
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:06,000
 the one I don't have a real handle on

1180
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:10,000
 is the ADA. I'd have to go back and look and see how much time

1181
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,000
 Todd spent on the right-of-way ADA stuff.

1182
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,000
 So I think some of the pathway forward

1183
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,000
 has been clarified with our ADA transition plan

1184
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:26,000
 being completed. So we now know where our

1185
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:30,000
 shortfalls are, and we have a

1186
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:34,000
 list of--basically a list of projects

1187
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:38,000
 to remedy all that. So--but this

1188
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,000
 position also will be looking at ADA for all new development.

1189
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:46,000
 So they'll be part of that development review that the

1190
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,000
 development team that surveys and

1191
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:54,000
 examines the new construction. So

1192
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,000
 I know we have planning people that do that as well, but I think that's going to be

1193
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:02,000
 part of this person's role. So we can prepare what--

1194
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:06,000
 basically what we expect. It's always

1195
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:10,000
 going to be dependent on what the workflow is at the time,

1196
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,000
 but we can certainly come up with what we think is the

1197
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:18,000
 expectations of how much

1198
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:22,000
 time is going to be dedicated to the bike, the

1199
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:26,000
 PED, the ADA, and the transportation planning. So the transportation

1200
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:30,000
 planning is really the new--well, I guess both ADA and transportation planning

1201
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:34,000
 are new elements.

1202
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,000
 So the planning portion will probably start off small

1203
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:42,000
 and--because we've got an established bike/ped

1204
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:46,000
 need and we've got an established ADA need. So those

1205
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:50,000
 will probably take the forefront, and then transportation planning is like

1206
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:54,000
 the mobility plan, where it's every five years, or

1207
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:58,000
 looking at--one of the things I--

1208
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:02,000
 something that Chandra and I do, and this person will do as well,

1209
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:06,000
 is revision. When we have a CIP project

1210
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:10,000
 and we're going to rebuild Carol or Elm or Locust,

1211
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:14,000
 then we need to have the opportunity to revision that roadway

1212
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,000
 for a complete street approach, a vision zero approach, and

1213
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:22,000
 a context-sensitive approach. So that's a natural function of

1214
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:26,000
 I think this position, because they'll be looking at ADA issues, they'll be looking at PED

1215
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:30,000
 and bike issues as we go through our reconstructive corridor.

1216
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:34,000
 Mitch or Car, do you

1217
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,000
 still have a comment or question?

1218
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:42,000
 I guess I was just--I haven't looked at the job

1219
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:46,000
 description yet. I have not downloaded that to see, but I was

1220
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:50,000
 curious. I mean, clearly--I don't know any

1221
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,000
 job descriptions that generally say percentages, but

1222
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:58,000
 I mean, it's got bike/ped on there, right?

1223
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:02,000
 I don't know.

1224
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:06,000
 It's in the title now, but it wasn't--the thing we know is it was not, right?

1225
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:10,000
 That was only added after there was community feedback

1226
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,000
 or committee concerns, is that if I'm understanding it correctly? That was not in the title.

1227
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:18,000
 So my understanding is that the

1228
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:22,000
 term "bike" or "bicycle" had to be added

1229
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:26,000
 for funding purposes. The job description is the job

1230
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:30,000
 description, and it's got three very clear--

1231
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:34,000
 you've got bike/ped oversight issues,

1232
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:38,000
 you've got ADA oversight issues, and then transportation planning,

1233
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:42,000
 which primarily right now is mobility plan type stuff, those oversight issues.

1234
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:46,000
 The reason the word "bike" was specifically added back

1235
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:50,000
 was so that we did not preclude ourselves from receiving grant funding

1236
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:54,000
 that wants that in the title.

1237
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:58,000
 For me, I'm fine with

1238
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:02,000
 bike/ped in there. I have no problem with titles.

1239
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:06,000
 For me, I'm much more concerned about the job description and what we're asking

1240
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:10,000
 this person to do.

1241
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:14,000
 We are about out of time, and I think I have a couple items I'd like to address, but

1242
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,000
 I think one thing I'm hearing is just making sure

1243
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:22,000
 I think the committee has some concern, or the commission has some concern that

1244
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:26,000
 people will have dedicated time towards that, because the previous job seemed to be solely dedicated to it,

1245
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:30,000
 now that seems to be a partial component of their work. So I don't know if that's something

1246
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:34,000
 that we could be interested in moving forward.

1247
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:38,000
 I'm hearing that from commissioners Karin Thurman.

1248
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:42,000
 Is that something we'd want to maybe get a report on, or just

1249
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:46,000
 give direction on? Is that something we can add for the future?

1250
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:54,000
 I think just get a report on.

1251
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:58,000
 I don't think we need to give any direction.

1252
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:02,000
 One of the things is that this person is going to be

1253
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:06,000
 pulled in two directions, and it's going to

1254
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:10,000
 one month it's going to be pulled one way, another month it could be pulled the other way.

1255
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:14,000
 So it's kind of hard to anticipate that, but

1256
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:18,000
 one of the things that we've been lacking since

1257
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:22,000
 Julie left is a public outreach.

1258
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:26,000
 There were Bike with the City in May for Bike Month.

1259
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,000
 There were quite a few things where

1260
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:34,000
 we showed off what we've been developing, and now

1261
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:38,000
 is kind of left for people to just kind of discover on their own, or have

1262
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:42,000
 other outside sources do that. Perhaps that's something that

1263
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:46,000
 communications could help with.

1264
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:50,000
 So if we could request, is this, and I don't know if this is the proper, could we request a future

1265
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:54,000
 item that maybe looks at both what the previous job descriptions

1266
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:58,000
 were, that Julie and Mark held in this new position, and how we think

1267
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:02,000
 they'll be, what is going to be gained and lost specific to

1268
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:06,000
 bike and pedestrian interests, which those previous two jobs had.

1269
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:10,000
 So could we get a report on how that's, we see that'll be changing

1270
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,000
 going forward with the new position.

1271
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:18,000
 And I just wanted to add, this is Becky Davini. I'm the City Engineer and Director of Capital

1272
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,000
 Projects. I'm not sure I've met all of you, but as we are going

1273
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:26,000
 through this project of actually working on trying to hire

1274
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:30,000
 this individual, and through this, you know, overall

1275
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:34,000
 posting of this position, I'd like to mention that we

1276
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:38,000
 really would like to see what type of applicants we receive along

1277
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:42,000
 with the job description that's currently posted, because it may

1278
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,000
 be that what we are trying to do through the job posting,

1279
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:50,000
 you know, is not something that is possible, or we're not going to get the type of candidates, and we

1280
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:54,000
 may have to go back to the drawing board and try to relook at that overall job description.

1281
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:58,000
 We're in hopes that we have an individual or can find an individual

1282
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:02,000
 who can do, you know, the multiple jobs that are within this

1283
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:06,000
 specific job description, but it may be that

1284
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:10,000
 timing, it would be best to wait until, obviously, if the next meeting is in January,

1285
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:14,000
 that might fall into play, but I'd like to just mention that as we're working through

1286
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,000
 trying to hire that individual, it may be very difficult to try to bring forward

1287
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,000
 something back until we kind of have that opportunity to review the applications

1288
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:26,000
 and see if that type of individual is even out there for us.

1289
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:30,000
 Thank you, Becky. So could we add that

1290
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:34,000
 to the agenda for after that point in time that Becky identified?

1291
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,000
 And I am concerned, Becky Owens,

1292
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:42,000
 are we allowed to go past 2 o'clock or are we limited? Because we are

1293
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:46,000
 almost at, we are, okay. Commissioner Carr, I saw your hand.

1294
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:50,000
 So I just want to say really quick that, you know, maybe we don't

1295
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:54,000
 pursue, you know, advertising

1296
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:58,000
 or trying to get people to understand the new bike facilities, much

1297
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:02,000
 maybe through this position, but maybe we seek out the

1298
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:06,000
 part of the city that does recreation and

1299
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,000
 we just refocus that energy on a different part of the city

1300
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:14,000
 and let this position be more targeted

1301
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:18,000
 towards streets and

1302
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:22,000
 understanding how they interact with the other traffic for bike and

1303
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,000
 ped. That's all I have to say.

1304
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:30,000
 Commissioner Carr's point, I think that actually

1305
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,000
 is a great point for getting a report on how the job's right, because if we see something that

1306
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:38,000
 was done in the previous job descriptions and is now not done in that position, we might see

1307
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:42,000
 could that be done elsewhere, like she's saying. I think that could be a great part

1308
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:46,000
 of a report. Commissioner King, did you have a comment or did I?

1309
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:50,000
 No. Okay. Okay. Becky, yes.

1310
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,000
 Hope you're muted.

1311
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,000
 Sorry, we can only go

1312
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:02,000
 over slightly on our time, so we need to move along with our future items

1313
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:06,000
 list. Well, I have a quick question. This may be for you, Becky.

1314
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:10,000
 I'm not sure. Just really quickly, I had made some requests

1315
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:14,000
 to have some things added to the agenda to get reports, brief reports on them that

1316
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:18,000
 I didn't see show up and maybe I'm incorrect on my

1317
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:22,000
 notes for our July meeting. One of the

1318
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:26,000
 things I requested report on was the feasibility of a common speed limit around

1319
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:30,000
 the square, which is something we discussed today, but I didn't see it on the agenda.

1320
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:34,000
 Am I understanding the process when we make these requests

1321
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:38,000
 for future items, how that happens or when that shows up on the agenda?

1322
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:42,000
 Because for the last point, if we wanted a report on this, how does

1323
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:46,000
 that process happen? Because I didn't see that on the agenda.

1324
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:50,000
 It can happen in multiple ways. As a staff report, as Brian

1325
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:54,000
 has prepared and presented today as part of the

1326
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:58,000
 speed study, that agenda item was a bit inclusive of that.

1327
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,000
 Or we can bring it back as a special, if you want to see it as a full-blown agenda

1328
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:06,000
 item. Depends on how the request was entered

1329
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:10,000
 or interpreted.

1330
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:14,000
 We'll push that towards Brian to see how we want to, or

1331
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:18,000
 how to incorporate that in the future agendas.

1332
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:22,000
 Well, I think that item was addressed tonight, but I was just more concerned when we

1333
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:26,000
 asked to add agenda items that they're added to the agenda, because I just

1334
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:30,000
 didn't see that happen. Because I think I had

1335
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,000
 also brought up asked if we could get a report on the design of the barley

1336
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:38,000
 the new ramp and

1337
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:42,000
 lack of crosswalk at barley and board that's right on the side of that building.

1338
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,000
 And I think I'd requested that the last time and I didn't see that come back up.

1339
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:50,000
 And then I'd also made one request about potentially getting a report about the

1340
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:54,000
 city blocking sidewalks with signs for road closings

1341
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:58,000
 and road construction, which has been a practice I've brought up. And so I asked

1342
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:02,000
 if we could potentially get a report on whether that city policy to block

1343
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:06,000
 sidewalks with with signs for road construction

1344
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:10,000
 or whether that is something that is just being done without

1345
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:14,000
 direction. I think I've been bringing that issue up for about six years, five or six years now.

1346
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:18,000
 And it seems like nothing has happened. You can walk around the city and

1347
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:22,000
 see it. So I don't know if that could be an agenda. That's an agenda item I requested in July that I

1348
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,000
 didn't see added anywhere. Can we add that as a formal agenda item?

1349
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:30,000
 Those items are, excuse me, sorry.

1350
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:34,000
 Those items are shown on the list that Brian's

1351
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,000
 fixing to speak to. It's the items for future consideration

1352
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:42,000
 and requests for agenda items. That report's been retitled.

1353
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:46,000
 It does show that you requested that in the meeting in July.

1354
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:50,000
 And those are

1355
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:54,000
 at the purview of the staff liaison, be it Becky and Brian,

1356
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,000
 for when we begin creating the agenda topics and

1357
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:02,000
 allowing for those items that need to go on to counsel and

1358
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:06,000
 staying within our time limitations for this particular meeting.

1359
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,000
 Okay, that makes sense. Thank you. I actually didn't notice that those items were on that list

1360
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:14,000
 there, so that is very helpful.

1361
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:18,000
 And so I would just like to add one last thing

1362
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:22,000
 or two quick items. One, do we know why Commissioner Sample is not here? I'm concerned

1363
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:26,000
 whether we're able to address whether these

1364
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,000
 meetings are excluding some people, whether it's to work

1365
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:34,000
 issues or other things, and I don't know if you need to publicly share it.

1366
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:38,000
 Are we able to address that to make sure that there's not

1367
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:42,000
 technology or work issues or anything that are excluding certain commitments?

1368
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:46,000
 The attendance policy was attached to this meeting invitation

1369
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:50,000
 as a reminder of how your attendance is to be reported. It goes directly to

1370
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:54,000
 the city secretary's office. I can say personally that

1371
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:58,000
 Commissioner Sample was invited. He did respond and said he was going

1372
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:02,000
 to be present today. I had provided his telephone

1373
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:06,000
 as well as his email address as points of contacts,

1374
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,000
 and I haven't seen him come on. So his

1375
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:14,000
 report will again go directly to the city secretary's office on his attendance.

1376
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:18,000
 I do know when we were meeting on Thursdays

1377
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:22,000
 as an alternate time during the workday,

1378
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,000
 he did have a work schedule conflict,

1379
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,000
 and we have to be mindful and respectful of that since we've moved our meeting from the

1380
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,000
 evening time slot to the daytime time slot, but that's

1381
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:38,000
 the only report I have available, but he is included.

1382
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:42,000
 You all can see on the meeting invitations and the distribution of the information

1383
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:46,000
 that everyone is included. It's a group invite

1384
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,000
 and all listed commissioners are covered.

1385
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:54,000
 Okay, thank you. I was just concerned about that.

1386
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:58,000
 And then the last item, I just want to hickory the bike bollards on hickory.

1387
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:02,000
 Citizens in the community have started to bring up that cars are parking between them.

1388
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:06,000
 That was part of our discussion when those were put up. So I wondered if we could bring that

1389
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:10,000
 back up about whether additional bollards are needed to

1390
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:14,000
 prevent those bike lanes with bollards now from becoming parking spaces

1391
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,000
 and delivery drop-off zones for people, because I think that's already

1392
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:22,000
 happening. And from what I've heard, it's just being framed as an

1393
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,000
 enforcement issue, but I think it's a design issue. And so

1394
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:30,000
 I was wondering if we could actually get a report on whether the bike

1395
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:34,000
 bollards are, at whatever future meeting, whether the bike bollards are working

1396
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:38,000
 or whether cars are just driving between them. And that's on the

1397
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:42,000
 hickory by UNT.

1398
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:46,000
 Any other items or agenda items anyone would like to add? Any other commissioners?

1399
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:54,000
 Okay. If we do not have any

1400
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:58,000
 other items, then I believe we can

1401
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:02,000
 adjourn this meeting. So thank you, everyone.

1402
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:06,000
 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.