Oct 22, 2020 Public Art Committee on 2020-10-22 12:00 PM

- We'll open today's meeting at 12.03 and we'll start with roll. Lonea Franklin, I'm here. Michelle Lynn. - I'm also on mute. Sorry about that. I'm here. - Nick Baggampore, I think he's absent. Meredith Ewing. - Here. - Alicia Egert. - Here. - Jody Ismer. - Here. - Fred Nicholson. - Here. - Harry Nobles. - Here. - Ed Steele. - Here. - Georgina Ngozi. - Here. - We're all accounted for. - We'll start with item one and let's go over the minutes from last month, September 14th, 2020. - Actually, Mene, we have a presentation from the public, Ms. Lonea McAdams. - All right. Go ahead. - Are you ready for me? - Yes. - I just wanted to comment about the public art piece that's being developed and designed for the recognition of the work done by the Women's Interracial Fellowship. I was a member of that organization and I think we did a phenomenal job of some things and we didn't go far enough, unfortunately, but what we are looking at now is the proposal for a piece of art that recognizes the women and the work that they did. We like the design very much, it's colorful, flowing, and it seems to have a lot of pieces to it and could stimulate a lot of conversation about the Women's Interracial Fellowship and why we did what we did and how that group of women happened to get together. These women who met yesterday were all members of the Women's Interracial Fellowship and they unanimously were supportive of placing the monument in the Industrial Street Park area. We think it's very important that as many people as possible see it and we think that it would have a much wider audience at the Industrial Street site than it would if it were placed in Fredmore Park, just as a matter of course the Fredmore Park is in a neighborhood, the Industrial Street site gets a lot of traffic both coming to Denton for things and going in that area to visit the restaurants and the wine bars and what have you, but it's a place that prior to the COVID, which has dragged us all down, prior to that it had a lot of traffic and a lot of young people and I think it's important that those people see what we did and while we were very proud of what we accomplished, young people often look at it with a jaundiced eye and think, "Well, that wasn't so much what those old people did," but given the time and the circumstances, it was a monumental task and I always like to think of Trudy Foster because Trudy was a person who, she was a kind and she was the sort of person you'd say, Trudy was a sweet person. She had a lovely smile and she was very warm and Trudy's attitude was when she suggested something or proposed to the city that they perhaps could do this or that and the city said, "No, we can't do that," Trudy would smile and look very nice and say, "What can we do?" You know, she just assumed that something could be done and if you couldn't do what she had suggested, it behooved you to come up with some other positive suggestion, not just a negative in the form of a no and that would put an end to it. And much of our success in getting the streets paid, which was the primary thing we did during that time and effort, was because of Trudy. Those streets would not have been paid if it had not been for Trudy and her diligence in going forth to the city time after time to work on that. I will answer any questions. I think that Fredmore Park gets plenty of traffic with all the new legion halls coming up, they're building that and I think it will tie in nicely and then we don't have any art at the park. Personally, I don't think nothing's wrong with the park and then we have basketball games there every day, baseball fields packed all the time. There's plenty of kids that can learn from it right there under the tree and they can probably put a bench there and there's a pavilion right there, Juneteenth's over there. And the group thought that the other site was better because it was-- Is there a certain audience you're trying to target or what do you-- We hope to get a lot of people both white and black and the primary, the people who primarily use Fredmore Park are black. No, they're not. They're white and black. Well, I know they have some but-- I live right in front of here, I see them every day riding their bikes, jogging, skating, walking dogs. It doesn't really compare to the people who are on the east side of the square. It doesn't make me any difference, it doesn't matter personally but I was just wondering is there a reason why you don't want that park? It was because, I think because those of us who were there during that time, we feel like we want to step out of that one neighborhood and be a part of the city as a whole. And we want large numbers of people to see us, to see what we did. And that's why we would prefer to have it where the crowds are bigger and more diverse. I think that what came up was the idea of having it in a neighborhood park versus something that is in a retail, open, accessible to everybody who visits the city. Actually I see to both locations, however I really truly feel like many more people, especially people out of Denton who don't know our story, might learn more if it was in a public place as opposed to a neighborhood. May I say something? Georgina. Hi Georgina. Hello. Ms. McAdams, I understand your point of view very well and was leaning, was responding to this project from the same headset that it would give the sculpture a more prominent place in the city. As I listen to Monet, as well as you, what I think I am realizing now is that the truth of the matter is that either one of the places are more dominant for one population versus the other. Treadmoor is more African American and Industrial is more white and other, I would say. You don't see a lot of African American people in that corridor. And I know that those are the two sites that have been taken under consideration during this period and I'm wondering, and I put it out to everyone to weigh in, if there's something that could be done, if it goes to Industrial, that some signage or some programming or some extension of that sculpture be at Treadmoor so that you are kind of directed and forced to go to both places because the real ambition here, I think, is to show the bridge between those two populations in our community. So I totally get your argument and I do strongly feel the same. Just if I can interrupt real quickly, I think this is great discussion, but I think it should be on the agenda item specifically instead of the presentation from the members of public. So if we don't mind, if we could carry that. And I do have a follow up for you, Georgina, when we get to that item that I think answers your question very well. Okay. Thank you. Sorry, Monet. Sorry to interrupt there. Can we go on to item two? Yes, ma'am. All right. Item two, center approval for the minutes of -- oh, that's two. Receive report and hold discussion and give staff input regarding the status of the following public art projects. Number one, Dog Park. Number two, the Vela Complex. Three, Tennis Center. Four, Fire Station. Number three, five, foundations of our history mural and six MLK project. Everyone's going to bring up that presentation and walk us through. This is an update for the public art projects as they currently are. We have the North Lakes Dog Park with the same budget as we've had, the same subcommittee, and we've got still under artist review. We still need to finalize the alternative selection for the artist for that one. So our next step is to get that project finalized and the brief done and then request those proposals from the artists. The second one is the G Rowland Vela Athletic Complex. This budget is being -- or working on transferring money from the Vela Athletic Complex construction project account, which will actually bring the entire project up to about $100,000 of funding. And right now we've received a proposal from Ray King, one of the artists that was preselected in the preselected group. And so that one we've actually received, and we can share a bit more information about that one. Gary, did you have anything to add? Just to provide some follow-up, you know, just to remember that we went out for bid for the $35,000, and the selected artists that the subcommittee proposed replied and said that wasn't enough based on the scope. So we did have some money left from the construction project of that park. It is bond-related money, so it's specifically dedicated to that location. If we want to change that use of that funding, we have to go to the bond committee, which can be done, the bond oversight committee, which can be done. But we thought this would be good use of that funding to finish that project. We are doing some additional signage. We have an arch going at the entryway, the name, as well as historical sign for Dr. Villa, and based off the theme and the proposal, we felt it was good use of the funding. If the committee is -- if the public art committee is in support of it, we'll immediately turn it around and take it to city council for consideration. And if they approve that, we can begin construction. The timeline that they've provided is June of '21. So that's, you know, eight months away. And we could get that installed and celebrate that if you guys are in support of that direction. John, could you bring up the proposal so they could see that? >> Okay. Hang on just a moment here and we'll bring it up. If you're going back, the theme that we asked the artist was based off of soccer and community education and, you know, biology, since that's where Dr. Villa and his passions were. So that was the theme that they worked off of. And I think they've done a pretty good job, if you had an opportunity to see that. We did share it with the Villa family, and they liked the proposal as well. So we wanted to provide you that information in addition to. So here's -- I'll let John take it from here. >> So this is the proposal that was received by Ray Kingley, just got this in on Monday. And so it's kind of big as far as the screen goes, but we won't need to go through all of it. But he essentially talks all about the background for what he's trying to be able to create. And essentially, he wants to be able to blend both the idea of the soccer along with Dr. Villa's background. And you can see that the actual piece there is a soccer ball. And then inside are the stainless steel spheres to show how just the chemistry of it. So it reflects both Dr. Villa and for the complex out there. >> That is beautiful. I've never seen the picture before. >> That is -- that was his artist rendering for it. And now some of the other things that you can see actual installations here for things that he's done in the past that have a similar kind of a look to them. And so he does some pretty large types of projects like this. And so you get an idea of the space and what he's really trying to be able to create. And this one here kind of brings it home for us because this is where the actual area is with the pedestal in this area. And then how this will sit in that particular spot. >> I like it. I'd say he hit a home run, but that's the wrong sport. >> Goal. >> Goal. >> That's the perfect one. John, keep scrolling down to the bottom. I think the last photo really tells a story where it frames it specifically in that facility. Right there. I think that's great. We are going to have an arch across the front. This is the view from the front -- from the -- well, he's photoshopped this a little bit. This is with the placement out front when this pedestal is actually on the back. So it would be a little bit in the distance on the other side of the archway. But across the front from pole to pole at the very top there will be an arch kind of following the roof line that will say Vela Athletic Complex. And they were out there this morning actually with a preinstallation. So that should be done in the next week or two. But this will be sent a little bit back just kind of where the light is behind the shade in that arch. So I think from a framing standpoint it could be perfect. >> I have to say -- can you hear me? >> Yes. >> I was skeptical about the idea of trying to get artists to combine soccer and microbiology. But I'm really impressed with how that was done in this sculpture. It's kind of amazing. >> I think the soccer ball is fairly subtle. I didn't even pick it up the first time that I looked at it. And there's also a star in the middle of it, too. So John, you maybe scroll up to the very beginning, you might be able to see that if you zoom in. So there's a star in the middle of that, that's -- and that -- Do we have any other questions? >> My question was if the pedestal shown in his rendering is what the pedestal actually looks like. Because you said that's already there, correct? >> The pedestal is there. It's not stained. I don't think we stained it. I think it's just gray at this point in time. I have to go back and double-check. But we could surely stain it post-construction. >> But the actual dimensions of the pedestal are kind of represented here. He was given those, and so those -- that kind of proportion is represented correctly? >> Yes, ma'am. We had a meeting last year while this was being finalized, and we actually met at the animal services shelter on that day and walked over, and the group identified where that was going to go, and we went ahead and had the pedestal put in during the construction process so we didn't have to tear up the concrete, and we used those dimensions to -- and weight limits and provided them as part of our scope. >> Jerry, I have a question. Will there be any lighting on the sculpture at night? >> Great question. So there's lighting in this general vicinity. We did talk about it -- I wasn't sure if it was at our meeting when we met out there about possibly putting maybe some spotlights up into the rafters that would shoot down on the pedestal and the sculpture, so that's something we can definitely look at. I think we need to go out there at night and see what the existing lighting looks like. It may already be flooded enough with lighting where that may not make a big deal, but we could certainly get a lighting contractor out there to see if we couldn't do something that would provide even a different nighttime visual to it, whether we used, like, an off color, a blue or something like that, would really change its perspective at nighttime. So we could definitely pursue that later on once it's installed to see if we can't make some enhancements to it from a nighttime perspective. >> I'm thinking if you're looking at it through the arch and you see it in the background at night, if it was lit up in some way, I think it would be very dramatic. >> I agree. >> I would just say if you're going to put color light on it, like, obviously we would just need to make sure that's okay with the artist. >> Absolutely. And maybe it's something that we could change the color based off of maybe what's going on this season, and definitely talk to them. >> So from a direction standpoint, we're double checking since you didn't get this in the original pack and it wasn't posted, we did reach out to the city attorney's office to see if we could have a formal vote. So we have not heard from our city attorney at this point in time, but maybe we could circle back around at the end and have a final discussion on this. At the very least, we'd like to have, you know, we like the direction you're heading, and then the thought process, if we can't vote on it today, we'll schedule a quick one item meeting for this next Thursday, just try to get them to chime in and vote on it so we can start the process, so we can kind of stick to our timelines. But do you feel this is meeting the scope of work that we put out, and are you okay with the budget that we increased it to in order to achieve the goal? Would be helpful feedback. I would make a motion to vote that we like the direction you're heading. I'll second that. Me too. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Great. I do. I like that a lot. Agree. Me too. Okay. So that's a motion seconded by Michelle, and then all in favor, is that correct? Yes. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. I'm bringing up the updates again. Okay. Moving from that one. Right now, we haven't really initiated this one. Our next steps would be to hold the subcommittee meetings, getting those going, then drafting the brief on that, kind of our scope of work, and reviewing any qualified artists, and then finally submitting that request proposal for that artist as we go. Just to provide a quick construction update, the Pro Shop, if you see it on Windsor, is substantially completed, they're just doing some final touch ups on that. We've had some, in fact, we have a call this afternoon about the roadway going into it, so we're in the middle of the permitting process, sort of try to get that out for bid as soon as possible. So we're hoping to have it completed in, towards the end of '21. Our goal here was to get some of these other projects moving first, and get them out the door and under construction, so I think we're getting really close to just really starting to address this one next. So probably in the next month or two, I think we'll be in a better position to do that, so if you're okay with that, we'll get that started, maybe in November, shortly after the holidays. Any other comments? Okay, I'm going to move on here. Air station number three, pretty much this is unchanged from the previous time that really what we're seeing is David Boots from the art department is moving forward with what they're doing as far as the fence goes. We still need to update the selection process, we have to get our brief going, our scope of work, and then submitting that request for the artist for the, I think we talked about a sculpture going in front of that fence area. Any questions or comments? We have the foundations of our history mural. Right now, we're in the place that, starting up, getting that done, so that is pretty much almost completely through what we needed to have happen. The contract and those things have been approved. So according to our contract and our presentation to council, they're going to start on November 1st, if not sooner, and then would be completed prior to Thanksgiving, pending any weather. So that one is going to be moving pretty quickly at this point in time. We did not expect that the last more than two weeks actual production, just if weather hits them. That's the only question he had. Okay, MLK Junior Rec Center sculpture. These are the sculptures by Madeline Wiener, contract, everything, those are complete all through council. We've approved the check to go out to Madeline, and she should receive that earlier this month. So she is currently buying her stone and getting it all set to go. I had a nice conversation with her on the phone, and she's very excited about being able to move forward with the project. One thing that we're adding to this that wasn't in the scope is landscaping of MLK Rec Center. Since we decided on the location closer to the building, we're going to be removing a couple of those benches and some of the older landscaping there. We're going to look at re landscaping the entire front of the building and really tie that all together through one landscape design. We may need to pull that from our operating budget, because we didn't have money for that specifically in this effort. If we do have money, we might be able to tie it into the scope. But that's something that we'll be working on. Maybe we can get that done probably next fall. So this the sculpture itself may be installed prior to that. But roughly the same time, maybe this time next year, we'd be doing landscaping for the entire facility. So that's a internal goal that we're working on. Any other comments or questions? Okay, normally, what we would do is we'd have the DWIF sculpture talking about that. But because we have a separate item listed for that, I'll go ahead and move on to that. Let me bring it up. Well, while John's working through that, the last meeting we had, we wanted to put a little time between the meetings, I think we had maybe six weeks between our last meeting, so we could get a couple of these things, proposals together and a couple things flushed through so we can start moving towards construction. So I feel like we're making good progress getting some of these projects out on the street, and we'll circle back around and visit those other ones that we haven't started yet in the near future. Okay, so now this next item is about the Denton Women's Interracial Fellowship Monument. And so here's the basic background that we've had. We've had a running budget of about $80,000 plus $20,000 funding from the Denton Parks Foundation. I did get a call from or email from Brooke Moore saying that they were meeting and getting some grants together, and so that looks like they're moving forward, getting the money for that. So we've got the artist and proposals selected by the subcommittee, and our next step would be, of course, planning with the DWIF members, but since we'd already put in this thing a week or so ago, we already had the meeting, and that's what Lenny McAdams was talking about. We also need to finalize the project plan, and the project needs to be completed by August of 2021, which is currently from the scope of work for it. And to cover that a little bit more, a little bit about the artist, because the subcommittee, of course, knows about this and having received the proposal before we actually reviewed everything. And so it is a -- she's a multimedia artist that creates this nuanced public art, including interactive sculptures. And from the rest of the proposal, we're really going to see that. Definitely involves community in the design process. My conversation with the dean of Fisher was that she definitely wants to come out and visit with the members, get more on the history, get pictures, and really involve a lot of everything that she's doing, because a lot of it is artwork, but there's also a lot of background information as far as her proposal that you can get through it, and I'll walk that as we move through it. Also, something unique, she does have a family history similar to members of the DWAF in that her mother did virtually the same thing she said in her community on the West Coast. So her inspiration has virtually all this different color to it, a very -- definitely you can't walk by there without seeing lots of color. And what she says is that is through the lens of hope, trust, or love, trust, friendship, they overcame cultural barriers to help them reimagine race relations, so that was her inspiration for it. Now, the art style is very much like what we put into the scope of work, in that it's a lenticular art, so these are glass pieces that viewed from various angles will have a little bit different look to them. And there's no electricity or computers involved, she says, but it's got a truly very physical phenomenon. So here's the project, and this is what it looks like from the first rendering that we have. And so it has this curtain. Now, those are all rods that are holding the lenticular or some of the glass pieces, and then there's a large -- it's more like two disks that are together there. That's not a single disk in the center portion of it. Each one of the disks in the screen, the hanging curtain, have a piece of the history, pictures of people involved, and has some other unique qualities to this particular piece, because if you can see on the very bottom of the screen, somebody's phone there, in that you can, with the app that's supplied, take that camera and put it up to it, and then all the facts about that individual and their story can come up. Another thing that was mentioned is that we have -- UNT has produced these -- interviewed many members of the DWIF and others that are significant in our history, and got their stories that you can actually go to the UNT site, and I talked a little bit with Dina about that side of it, and she can use all of that. So literally, the phone app can then play the individual's voices that they're taking the picture of at that time. Also as a -- just to note that not everybody in the picture that you're seeing here is actually a member or were influenced by the DWIF. They had to fill in some pictures that she couldn't get, so they're just there for example. And they are two-sided so that you can see it from the front and the back for it. Something else that's kind of unique is that part of the walkways now, when we sent this out, we only really had the Fredmore Park area to be able to put into the proposal. Now we've got both those places, and so what you're going to see is it just kind of laid out for that Fredmore Park, and she said that she can lay it out in either of the locations without any particular problem. And so right here, you have these art lanterns that go along, and these are all solar-powered, and that uses this bicarbic glass, very translucent, and if anybody's ever seen it before, it's really quite beautiful. And they're about 10 inches by 48-inch cylinders made of this type of material. She also proposed having a circular bench included in this, and she's very open to changing any of these things. I know that the subcommittee had some kind of mixed reactions to the way the bench was, but even Gary and I haven't had a chance to talk to the subcommittee or anybody else. We have some other things that could happen there that help to really show the nature of what this is and how people can interact with it. So this was the layout that was proposed just over at the Fredmore Park area. So if you can see this area right here, that's where the American Leage Hall Senior Center is, the basketball court over here, and so a side street here, and then the sidewalks that go around. This is where she had proposed to have the lanterns there, but that can easily be adjusted same way over at the industrial park site. And so that was location one option overhead view here in the Fredmore Park. That's what the area looks like just from the street. And this is the option two, this is the industrial street park area. And so this is just a Google overhead view. So it doesn't really give it a good idea since it's obviously in the winter time and things are pretty brown at that time. But over on this side, you'll see roosters, you'll see the wine bar and Fuzzy's taco shop, and this is the Hoochies seafood restaurants here, and over here are the condos, I think, apartments for it. It can be really anywhere in here. I had a conversation with Gary, and we were thinking that the area that the trees are here would be one of the better spots for being able to locate, at least in that particular spot. And this is what that area looks like from the street at the roosters, at roosters side of it. So over here is Hoochies and these are the apartments. And we currently have the picnic tables and the vegetation. These things can be moved and being able to put it somewhere in that particular location is where we would suggest that it go, but the committee can figure that one. Just to provide some background information, right when I started, staff had been working on this location, it was more dirt, there wasn't good soil in there, and we regraded it and put down some sod. It does get a heavy use and actually this time of year with some of the events that happened on Industrial Street and the Day of the Dead Festival, they use some of this as well for some activity. But we had started a master plan and we went through a number, we had four renderings put together to redevelop this park into a tiny little downtown space. And we were focused on providing space for people to relax, but also could use it for those special events if we wanted to have a speaker or a UNT musician wanted to come over and play the saxophone, or we wanted to have a three-piece band kind of set up there and just do some music, or someone wanted to give a community historical presentation, they could do that. So just real quickly, and this was just right before the meeting, John and I were envisioning that if you wanted to use that art as the background, we could create almost like a classroom/stage in front of it, and maybe it's elevated a little bit where kids could go up there and there could be classrooms or tours for people to learn a little bit about the DWIF women and history, and that would be kind of facing away towards the Wells Fargo building. But then if you wanted to have a small event, a lecture, or a little concert, you could face towards Industrial Street. So it could really have multiple purposes, and the art would be the background for that performance. Obviously we would respect that, and that would have to be considered during design to make sure that that classroom/stage is large enough to accommodate that, and we obviously wouldn't put a rock band on there because it's more intimate per se than kind of our initial thoughts, but that was just a general idea. So we'd go back under the trees, and then this front area could be lawn access for people just to kind of relax and enjoy if they wanted to grab some food. Sorry to interrupt. A quick question since we're discussing locations. Between the two locations, is there one that would be considered safer from just the perspective of the well-being of the art installation? More visibility, more traffic, more eyes on, less inclination for someone to do something they shouldn't. Yeah, that's a great question. Obviously Quaker Town is a pretty active space, and we had that glass piece there, and that was vandalized. I think really anywhere is suspect to some activity that's unwanted. I think this gets probably more pedestrian traffic throughout the day and the evening. Fred Moore is more neighborhood, especially with staff living right across the street for residents living right across the street. From that, there's kind of an eyes and ears on there, but I think there's pros and cons to both locations. So you probably could make arguments for both, but I think from a traffic pattern, you probably get more overall on this location just because of whether you're going down there to eat or not, or you're driving by in the car. There's a lot of people going to and from. You could see even just the amount of cars that are there right now, probably on an average weekday. And then, I know you guys aren't done, I hope you don't mind if I throw a second question your way. Absolutely. Regarding the app perspective aspect with the phone and the art installation, with the Play Store and the Apple Store, there's a yearly fee for app developers to keep that app active in the store. What would be the proposed length of time that that app would stay active so that people could actually download it and use it? And if that hasn't been considered, it's something to consider because a year or two from now, if the app is a major feature of the piece and it's unavailable in the app store to download, then that's a detriment. Yeah, that's a fantastic question, and I don't know the answer to that. I don't know if the app that they're looking at is a general app that is for art or not. Maybe there's a more generally acceptable app that's out there, but I think it would be great for us to really use that for all of our artwork and really expand to a walking tour, which I know you guys have had discussions on in the past, to really integrate everything that we're doing from an art perspective and even the historical perspective. Maybe you could even expand out to our cemeteries, so you could scan a head zone and you learn about a Civil War veteran. That actually is a great concept because rather than having a one-off app, have a centralized app that maybe is maintained by the city rather than the artist and tie that piece and all other pieces into that centralized app. From that perspective, like with the Engage Denton app, there's not a problem of it disappearing from the app store because the city continues to pay the fees to Google and Apple to keep it going. That's a great, great concept. We thought about the same thing for the mural. Whether it was a QR code or if we just use visual scanning. If you were walking by and you scanned one of the ladies, then it would bring up more detail about that person and if we could even use geo-fencing, it might help promote that more. If you're getting close to a piece of art, it would provide a notification on your phone. There would be a lot of cool ways that we could start integrating more technology into our community. Ed, I like the idea of possibly doing it through the Engage Denton. I don't know what your experience is. I would love to hear you talk about this at some point. I'm thinking last year I went to the Dolly Museum and they had, I didn't have to download an app at all. I just scanned my phone at something and the pictures moved and it gave you like a narrative and stuff. So I'm wondering if it has to be an app, but if it did, maybe Engage Denton would be the one to use. Yeah, or the city may have other, since Engage Denton has a specific purpose. Maybe the city has a different app in mind that's being developed. I'm not sure. I think the fewer, in line with what you're saying, Michelle, which is a great idea, the fewer apps that people have to download, the better if it can all be centralized into one app that's offered by the city. Then that really simplifies things both for the city and for people using the apps. Yeah, I think that's a super point because Engage Denton right now is primarily promoted as a way to voice your concerns. So maybe it could be a really a way to engage Denton in more than just one perspective. So that's something we definitely could reach out to them. I mean, that may not be part of their platform, which I'm assuming it might not be, but who knows maybe that's an opportunity for them to spin off some more community involvement. I agree. That's a great idea. Cool. Thanks for letting me interrupt with those questions. No problem at all. Okay. Any other questions? Well, are we going to have time at the end of this to well, yeah, we will, never mind. So this is this is the last slide. So I guess our comment to the chair and the board is, you know, do you like first of all, I guess the location. But before that is do you like the proposal that's being presented to you, or do we need to go back and revisit with the subcommittee on the proposals that they provided? I don't know if any of the subcommittee members would like to maybe start off with the design and then we could talk about the location seconds. Nothing to say about the design other than I think it's fantastic. I like it. I love the design. I like how it's very interactive and that it gives everything a lot of context. And the history, it's not just, you know, a monument or a mural, it really puts everything in perspective and gives, yeah, like the history of what these ladies did and everything. I think it's beautiful. Anything else? Not on the, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, I had I had something to say about the location options, if I may. Absolutely. And then I'll go after you. I worked on the square at an art gallery for nine years. And one thing I can say that I think personally that the downtown area would be a better fit because if you put it in the neighborhood, it's going to be definitely a destination rather than something you come across. And people are the people that are going to be going there into the neighborhood are already going to be people that are interested in knowing about that history. And they're going to already know it's there. So it's in a way you're kind of already getting to the to the demographic that care and know about the history, whereas if you put it downtown, you're going to get, first of all, just exponential more people because of, you know, the traffic, the festivals, you know, anything like that. But also just you'll get a lot of just people that will walk by accidentally and walk in and, you know, experience that and get to know the history by accident and be informed and touched by the stories. And I think that's really important. You know, I think it'll just affect a lot more people that normally, even if they knew about the piece being over in Fred Moore Park, they're not going to go over there. You know, so I just think that's something to consider. I agree, Meredith, I think there are two other reasons why I like the industrial street park option is to just from my background and security, I feel would be a more secure location just for the amount of traffic and eyes on. And third, if I understood correctly, that's the wish of the DWIF that it go in that location. And I don't understand the logic of having a art installation to honor them and putting it somewhere where they wouldn't want it to go. So for those three reasons, I would also lean towards industrial street park. I agree as well with all that you both just said. I like the industrial street park as well. Is there a way that maybe we could ask or propose to the city council or the police or whatever that they put security cameras or a security camera? And then I notice that you're being filmed. I don't know. Sometimes that just deters people because they're scared. We are looking at a number of locations in the city that have security concerns. Quaker Town, we had an analysis done by a risk management group just to see how we can improve security and safety in that park. And we're going to be doing that down the road with a number of our other facilities. We do have cameras in some locations, not generally in all of our parks. The dog park, we have a camera over there and in our facilities. So we are looking at cameras for illegal dumping in some of the dump sites that we have across the city to try to stop that. But we could look at that location as well. That might be a future funding opportunity that we'll have to identify, but we could definitely include that in our future plans. Gary, you said you would get back to the issue that I brought up earlier. I just want to say a little bit more related to this project and its intention. Its intention in part is to honor the women who took that work on. And also, I would think to elevate and encourage continued bridge building throughout the city and with various communities. When I did my Hot Funds application this year, I requested support for programming around this project, DWIF. I'm not sure what that programming will look like, but maybe one of the things in order to capture the intention of this project would be to have programming there maybe on a quarterly basis or a monthly basis that highlights, this is what I'm thinking now, I have to make it happen, that highlights the different women and their involvement in their lives and/or even university community and student performers who maybe could animate some of those stories. So things like that. I do understand why Monet would want us to consider Fred Moore because of the community that it represents, the African American community. But I think our ambitions need to be broader, that it educates everyone and builds bridges particularly in the climate that we're currently living in. So that being said, I'm done. So just to follow up that in regards to Fred Moore, Councilmember Hudspeth had asked us to look at as part of the construction efforts for the American Legion that being rebuilt to almost create like a living history mural or a wall of fame type of perspective where some of the instrumental people in Southeast Denton could be focused on and we would tie that all together. So we currently have some history along the DCTA rail trail that highlights DWIF as well as just general history of that corridor in the city as a whole that we're actually working on replacing those signs because they're weathered and we do have seven pedestals that could use more plaques. So that's kind of part of our goal as well. But if we put a wall of history inside of the American Legion Hall, that would be another way to really tie that all together. And if the PAC chose Industrial Street, that would be another location in the city where they have that information. So between Industrial Street Park, Georgina, your facility, Fred Moore, there could be multiple opportunities for programming, whether it's indoors or outdoors, on a little stage in the park and community history. So that might be a good way to really kind of spread that out and provide it both at Fred Moore and Industrial Street Park as an option for consideration. Could I add something? I'm sorry. Go ahead. Oh, I was just, I don't know if everyone on the committee is aware of this either, but we had also talked about having a bona fide trail that started perhaps out at the county museum where there's currently an exhibit that is about, that's in, it's not the schoolhouse, it's the one that's in the little house, but having the exhibit start at the county museum there or be involved with that some way because to walk from Carroll and I guess Sycamore where it is to get downtown is just a couple blocks and then to take the rail trail is a couple more blocks and then Fred Moore is a couple more blocks so that we could actually start at the old house in the downtown county museum and make something that could be connected from like QR codes or like we said some other way of doing it with your phone, it could be a pamphlet, but there's a way to incorporate that entire thing into some sort of African American history in Denton County. We are trying to figure out a way to tie the rail trail into what we're proposing as part of our trails plan is the Pecan Creek trail that would start at the DCTA trail and go with the Fred Moore then over to Carl Young and then over to the property off of, by MKOC and then all points east following Pecan Creek. So there would literally be hopefully a long-term concrete trail that would connect everything together, not just virtually or technology-wise. Gary, the only other thing I would want us to consider is directional signage for this project because while that space is there, it's also a hidden space. It could be seen as an alley that people might not want to venture down. So I would think that signage on the main streets would be important to provide guidance to everyone. The city did put directional signage in around downtown in probably two years ago. We could look at adding, if we needed to add a post here or two, we could definitely do that. If not, we could see about adding a panel to the existing sign so we could create a direction to that monument. So Chairperson, I guess we have two requests. One is the design and the existing budget for the artist's sculpture, and then two, the next question would be a discussion and a vote on the location. Okay, we can vote on the design and all that. Anybody in favor of the design? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. And then the location? No for me. Everyone else? I'm going to vote aye for the industrial street location. Aye for industrial street. Aye for industrial street. Aye for industrial. I don't get to vote, but I do have a question. I'm sorry, I'm just thinking about it. I want to hear from Monet what maybe would be not an alternative necessarily, but what other option might there be to integrate Fred Moore connected to this effort? Well, I just think, well personally, think about it, Interracial Fellowship was designed for the Pay This Roads in Southeast Denton, so why not have the art in Southeast Denton talking about the roads that you rant about all day, but you know, to each his own. Okay thank you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I interrupted. Okay so we have a unanimous vote on the design. And then a 6 to 1 on the location. We'll go ahead and start moving forward on that, getting contracts in place, get City Council and share the minutes and the summaries and the feedback from the Public Art Committee with City Council as well. All right, then the next thing will be the receipt report, hold discussion against staff direction regarding the purchase of the Nick Oblick sculpture. Okay, I am going to bring bringing that up now. We received some a request or a offer from one of our citizens to be able to purchase some of the artworks that he currently owned for from Nick Oblick, and that's basically what we have, and so he's got essentially all of these that he would be willing to part with as a piece, or as all of them, or several of them. It depends on what the PAC wants to be able to do with that. To get an idea of which pieces these are, here's some of those. We put in some of the sizes for everybody, including the cost for them. And so the sculpture A, you can actually see it in the middle picture there, and a garden location for it, and then over to what those look like just individually where he has them stored at the moment. So that's basically sculpture A, and sculpture B looks like it's a little bit bigger, and it's also located in that same general garden area for it, a little different cost, and sculpture C, it's again next to those other ones in the garden area, but in the right picture those are just all in storage at that particular time. And then all three of those as they looked when he had them in the garden area, pretty close to the same size. A sculpture D is called Rust, and that's what it looks like. It's got lots of rust here, a lot of patina to it, but it's a little bit bigger than the others. It's 102 inches by 42 inches wide, so it gets a little bit larger, and it's a bit more expensive at $21,000. And the sculpture E is actually a roadrunner, and you can see it very well from different angles of it, it's very free flowing, very much like the piece that's currently in Quaker Town Park, 16 feet long, 5 feet wide, 9 feet tall. Of course it's going to be the most expensive because it's the largest of each of the pieces for it. Have these prices been independently confirmed by outside appraisers? No, they have not. That was his original proposal. The discussion started, the resident reached out to Councilmember Hudspeth and connected us and I followed up and talked to him. Originally we had proposed, you know, we'd asked, are you looking for a lease, a loan, or a sale, and he had considered all those options. He did come back to us and proposed the sale of those. I think it still could be an option that we go back to them and say we'd consider a loan, or if we wanted to lease it for a couple of years. I know we have a program that's for a future agenda item for a temporary art location, and we talked about some art locations on Carroll over the past year where something like that could be put. We have not had any appraisals done yet. We wanted to, first of all, see what the interest level was from the Public Art Committee. We do have two Nick Nobleek pieces of art in the city's inventory. One is just on the east side of City Hall, right outside of the side doors at City Hall. That was presented from the Denton Arts Festival, I think it was, and then we have one over at Waterworks Park in an auditorium that's in the landscaping of the outdoor pool. That's also a Nick Nobleek artwork, so I didn't know if the, since we already had Nobleek sculptures in the city's inventory, if we wanted to provide more diversification, but I wanted to provide this to you for discussion and feedback from the group. Curiosity, what is he intending to do with them? I'm not sure. I know he had the Road Runner was located over by Denton Ryan High School, not Denton Ryan, Southeast High School. Help me out. Off of Teebly, what's the name of the school there? Guyer? Guyer. It's in the landscaping of an apartment complex across from Guyer High School, and it may still be there if you want to check it out. And that's how I went over and looked at it. So I think he has purchased these over the term, and he's trying to identify what he wants to do with them long term. From my perspective, if you look at the art that we're putting in, the new art, the Vela, all of the items that we've looked at today in various presentations. The Nick Nebleek to me look like old Denton. I grew up here. I remember when they filmed the Benji movie at the post office, right? That was so cool as a kid. Anyway, I digress. The Nick Nebleek pieces, while they're very nice, they convey old Denton to me, and we're kind of moving in a new direction with our art, so I would not be in favor of the committee picking them up. That's just my opinion. Just a reference point, Benji did run down the halls, the city hall too. Nice. I'm not sure I understand where the funds for this would come from. We would have to identify funds and see what we have in our existing inventory or go out and look for hot funds or other funding sources, but he had asked, we talked maybe two or three months ago, and I wanted to give him an answer, so he knew our direction. We did put on there as a recommendation that if you guys were in favor of this, we would want to hold off with the other projects we have that we need to get out under production and get installed and it's something we can consider down the road, but I did want to get him an answer and get some feedback from the public art committee so we could at least provide him some direction if he wanted to put that on the market or do something else with them at this time. I'm personally not in favor and would eventually like to revisit, I believe it was Alicia's idea of doing temporary art, or I forgot. That's something that we talked about I think in July with the PAC and we need to update those rules of engagement for that program, but we didn't want to detract from the focus of getting these projects going, so that's a future project that we will circle back around on. I agree. I agree that if we already have two pieces of art from this fella, it's nice, but I don't think that especially with what our budget's going to look like next year, I don't think that we would have the money for it. We don't have a place planned for it. I would say at this time, that's probably a pass on my part. I agree with that. I agree. Chairperson do we need to have a motion or? Yes. We'll do a motion to not accept the naked oblique sculptures. I'll second that. All in favor? This is in favor of? Not accepting. Not accepting. Yes. Aye. Aye. Aye. Slightly declining. Yes. Thank you very much. We'll pass that information along. Next bullet point is receive report and hold discussion and give staff direction and input of the mural planned by the Denton Holiday Lighting Association at 227 West Oak. This is currently called the West Oak mural. This is a project by the Denton Holiday Lighting Association. Essentially, they're just really replacing the mural damage during a wall repair, so some of that had to come off the wall. It couldn't be something they could actually keep. They were all funded by Hot Funds for $11,500, has to be completed by December 4th, so they don't have that much time. It's not in the courthouse square National Register of Historic District, so it doesn't fall under those rules. It's also not under the downtown design standards, so it doesn't fall under those rules. This is simply art that they're doing on a private building, actually one of the walls is a design studio that's there. This is really informational only. This is no actions actually needed by the pack at this time for it. Just to give you an idea what it looks like, this is what it did before, so you can see what the wall was, and a lot of this, I guess it was a big crack and they had to fix a lot of it and repair the bricks, so that was essentially scrapped from what they did. They have two different options that they're looking at, and so this is the look of one of them, so if you are standing over in the parking lot looking, and you can see the cars, I think that's Gary's Jeep right there. This is one of the design ideas, and so this isn't like an advertisement in the way for the Holiday Lighting Festival on that wall. This is option one that they have, and the second option is more like this particular design still. It has the Holiday Lighting Festival piece on it. Is that snow? Please tell me it's not, because we don't get snow like that. It's white sidewalks. It's white sidewalks, okay, gotcha. Don't really know, but they're deciding on what these are, but if we have these types of projects come in and around town, that can be considered public art in a way that it's a good idea for the Public Art Committee to know about it. If we have any questions. So this is not an item of official control, I guess, but we wanted to make sure in talking with the staff member that's in charge of the HUD funds that we shared it with you and gathered any feedback from the group, just in case City Council asked a question if you guys were referenced. I guess if we're just sharing opinions, but not necessarily voting, I definitely prefer the second one. It just seems like a big advertisement though. I mean like spending hot funds to advertise, not that I don't love the Holiday Lighting, but to see it all year round, but you know, it's not up to us to judge, I guess. I don't know, but you know, there's a similar mural on the Hickory Street for Day of the Dead that promotes that activity as well. I didn't know that. Yeah, it actually was being painted right during COVID when it hit in the spring. So it's pretty interesting. I saw that the other day, and I thought it was quite controversial, because that event is actually quite controversial, but yeah, I don't know. Could you tell me where it's located? I want to drive past it now. It's across from Hoochies and the Taco Shop, maybe a little further up Hickory. Right where the coffins go down the road. Yeah, okay. On the north side. Okay. So in thinking through this, with the Day of the Dead Festival, is that still going on this year? No. I didn't think so. Okay, so with the Holiday Lighting Festival, what are the current plans of that festival with COVID? I think that that's, they have hot funds for this year's event, and they wanted to recycle those for the artwork, since they weren't going to have the event. Gotcha. That's correct, John. That's what I heard from Randy, yeah, who runs the hot funds. And with hot funds, it's kind of a use it or lose it type of thing, right? Yes. Does that affect the amount that's budgeted then for the next year, if it's not used? That would be up to the hot funds committee and for Randy, who runs that. But normally these funds, because the COVID is a very unusual circumstance. So I don't think that's going to be held against anybody. But even people that don't use all their funds and turn in part of it, they're still considered for hot funds and fall in years. Yeah. Okay, good. I would just hate for it to, and I understand why it wouldn't, but I would hate to see it get counted against, because it wasn't used. So we can pass along that information, just some of the general feedback from everybody. If there's anything else you'd like to add, we can definitely do that. And then item three is concluding items, anything else? So Madam Chair, before we get to that point, we did get notification from our city attorney that we could move forward and revisit back to item, I guess it's public PAC 20-039 and vote on the G. Rowland Vela Athletic Complex proposal. So maybe John could bring that back up just for one last visual. So with this would be an official vote that we can go ahead and move forward with contract development and proposal to city council. Let me get there just a moment. The total project is $100,000 and we'll be using a 65,000 of that from the complex construction. We do have a meeting scheduled in November with the oversight committee for the bond committee and we'll let them know and give them an update as part of that process as well and get some feedback with them and move forward with city council based on the proposal presented hopefully having this completed in June of 2021. So since we already had the discussion phase, are you just looking for a motion? We're looking for an official vote based on us moving forward. I know you kind of gave us the informal thumbs up, but we're looking for the formal thumbs up. So I would make a motion for a formal thumbs up that we vote to approve. And I'll second. And all in favor aye. Lynn says aye. That's unanimous. Yes. Yay. Thank you very much. We'll get started on that immediately. Excellent. Thank you for that amendment. Does anyone have any concluding items? I did want to say that I had worked with a couple different people on a press release for the women's interracial fellowship and I hadn't want to have done anything until we approved that it was okay to go forward with that specific artist and had a location. Is it okay? Tell me Gary if it's okay if I just do it as a shared like on the Google Drive so everyone can see it. Could I share that document with everyone or would that be like a privacy thing that I couldn't do because we're all in the same committee? Good question. I think the best step to go would be to share it with the subcommittee and let the subcommittee work through that detail. And then once council approves it, I think we could send it out as an FYI to everybody and just ask if you have any feedback, just give them to us individually and don't share it with the entire group. Okay. I'll just share it to the subcommittee at this point then. Okay. And then once council approves it then we could work with our public affairs group for sure and get that out. One of the subcommittee meetings being held, I missed the last PAC meeting because I didn't get the announcement and I'm just curious about our DWIF meetings because I've not received any announcements for that. I don't think there's been any in a while, I haven't either Georgina. I think the last one we had was before we sent it out for official update and we were waiting for those to get back. So we haven't had a number of those for a while but the ones that are kind of dragging a little bit that we've been focused on, a few of these to get them rolling, we'll get those subcommittees rekindled I should say. Thank you. Anything else? Thank you for everybody for everything you're doing to help us get these projects out. We're looking forward to the day we can have an in-person dedication for all these events. So hopefully maybe in the springtime when we get some of these rolling we can get everybody out for a celebration. That'd be wonderful. Absolutely. All right, nothing further, we can close the meeting at 1.23. Okay. Thanks everyone. Have a great weekend.