1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,800 >> Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the planning and zoning commission work session 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,900 for October 21st, 2020. Seeing that we have a quorum, I'll call this meeting to order 3 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:20,040 at 432. Please let the record show that at this time, Commissioner Anderson is absent. 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,860 And with that, we'll just go ahead and jump right into our work session reports. The first 5 00:00:24,860 --> 00:00:30,120 one is to receive a report and hold the discussion regarding the trails concept map for future 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,400 identification, renovation, and expansion of facilities and trails. And I will assume 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,360 let Gary Packins take it from here. >> Thank you very much. Let me go ahead and 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:58,520 bring that up. It doesn't look like it's showing. Share screen. And there we go. Okay. Thank 9 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,960 you very much, Gary Packins, Director of Parks and Recreation. We have a few other staff 10 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,680 members and a consultant on board, Dr. Joseph Walkers from University of North Texas. He's 11 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:14,840 been helping us on this plan for the past 18 months or so, really volunteering at this 12 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:22,920 point in time, well past any support that he's had financially. And then Drew Huffman, 13 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:28,240 who's an Assistant Director of Parks and Recreation, and Heather Gray is our Business Manager. 14 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:35,640 So we've been working on our Parks, Recreation, and Trails Master Plan for about 18 months. 15 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,760 We had the staff member that was kind of our key point. He went to another job and then 16 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,880 COVID hit. So it really took a pause there for a number of months. But during this time, 17 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,740 we've been working on the Trails Plan. And it's really a chapter, but it's a large portion 18 00:01:51,740 --> 00:01:55,840 of our Master Plan just because the amount of information that we've been working on. 19 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:01,920 So we wanted to spend a few minutes, go through what we've been working on, and then flip 20 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,620 over to a GIS map and just kind of walk you through some of the trails and then gather 21 00:02:07,620 --> 00:02:13,760 as much feedback as we can. We plan on going to council in November and scrubbing everything 22 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,960 back up if we need to make adjustments and then eventually taking it to council later 23 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:27,240 in 2021. So overall, trails and really in DFW are number one requested recreational 24 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:35,440 resource across most cities in DFW and obviously very popular. People of all ages and abilities 25 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,800 can go out and use those. So it's a really way, not just for recreational, but also for 26 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,900 personal transportation, going to various places if people are depending on that resource 27 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:52,000 for transportation. Our existing trails, we're going to talk a little bit about the current 28 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,200 trails network and then also a series of new trails that we're looking forward to, not 29 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:06,800 just surface, but water trails, as well as equestrian trails and a few others. So from 30 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:13,440 a multi-purpose trail, they foster obviously physical activity, their multi-purpose recreational 31 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:19,160 assets for physical activity and health and wellness, transportation for people to go 32 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:26,080 to work, get to school, whether it's college or elementary, and then obviously mobility 33 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:35,200 just to create connectivities and opportunities between neighborhoods and parks. One major 34 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:41,200 component is what we're calling a side path, and that is to help improve non-motorized 35 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:47,600 mobility as well. This is typically designated whether it's 10 feet, 8 feet. We're shooting 36 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:54,200 for 10 feet as much as we can to provide that separate path for safety so people aren't 37 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,160 on street as much as they can. Sometimes we have to be on street just because of the way 38 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:06,760 that the road is and the width of the right-of-way. So currently right now, we have about 21 miles 39 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:12,600 of trails with inside our park system. Where we're at right now with our plan is we have 40 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:18,480 about 32 miles that are planned for future development, and when we say future development, 41 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,800 that's probably 25, 40 years at this point in time, long term, pending obviously a revenue 42 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:30,480 stream to help offset that construction. We have a series of trails planned for creeks 43 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,000 that are following the greenways, and that's another little 21 miles of trails that we 44 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:42,520 have currently and 17 that are planned. And then side paths, we have zero on here because 45 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,600 when we started, we didn't have any, but May Hill's been completed, Vintage is getting 46 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,280 poured right now, and some of Bonnie Gray's getting poured. So there's another 130 miles 47 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:59,920 of trail opportunities that would be called side paths. Then connectors, these are various 48 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:04,840 areas, and a lot of these are under our text dot roadways where we have those major pinch 49 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:11,480 points for major intersections, connecting one trail to another. Our paddling trails, 50 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,120 and these are the easiest one to build because it's just using existing waterways. Obviously 51 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,880 getting people into the waterways is the majority of that expense, and then signage or buoys 52 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,320 identifying where the safe places to go are, and it's really a marketing campaign as well 53 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,880 to get people out using your water activities, your waterways. So right now we have about 54 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,880 30 miles of those planned, and realistically long term, we'd love to see a trail around 55 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:42,200 Lake Louisville, which would be 100 mile paddling challenge going around the perimeter, and 56 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,920 we actually have some discussions tomorrow planned with Texas Parks and Wildlife about 57 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,220 paddling trails. And then equestrian trails, and this one is really still up for grabs. 58 00:05:51,220 --> 00:05:57,340 We don't have anything designated for horses, but we found a few areas that might be ideal 59 00:05:57,340 --> 00:06:03,660 for that. It's obviously a lot of flexibility in the planning, but that's just a high water 60 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:10,920 mark that we could focus on some areas and get some equestrian enthusiasts interested. 61 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:17,840 So overall, we have a plan that would link 18 of the parks together through trails, and 62 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:23,040 those are connected just for parks. We also have additional businesses, schools, city 63 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:30,880 assets, downtown being a major one. The train stations and the train stops would be another 64 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:36,300 significant opportunity as well. In total, we have 210, actually probably a little bit 65 00:06:36,300 --> 00:06:41,120 more at this point in time, in proposed miles of trails, and that's everything that I just 66 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:47,680 talked about, including equestrian and paddling trails. About $60 million in estimated capital 67 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:54,240 construction, and that's in today's dollars. And then that does not include the side paths 68 00:06:54,240 --> 00:07:00,240 along the roadways. And then about $550,000 in estimated maintenance, and that's just 69 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:07,120 a ballpark figure. So obviously compliance considerations and concerns, obviously inclusion 70 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,800 to make sure we're making sure that everything is accessible to all abilities. We're looking 71 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:18,800 at safety measures, whether it's call boxes or lighting or even some sort of a patrol 72 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:26,040 system, various types of surfaces, and then signage. So inclusion, obviously, this is 73 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:34,040 a big one. Whether you're on a bike and you have some barriers, inability challenges, 74 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:40,560 or in a wheelchair, or you're, you know, anyway, we want to make sure that it's easy for you 75 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:45,360 to get around, get back and forth on the trails. A lot of our trails, obviously, are crossing 76 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,620 roadways, and we need to make sure that they're safe and for people of all ages and abilities 77 00:07:50,620 --> 00:08:04,920 to to meander through our park system. Whether it's a bridge, an intersection, a sidewinder 78 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,040 when you're going through an S curve to get across the street, slowing traffic down, not 79 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,800 just for the people, but for the cars as well. Obviously, there's safety concerns from both. 80 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:19,040 And obviously, people on a bike are going to get hurt more seriously compared to a car. 81 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:26,480 But we need to figure out where we have those major cross points that are safe for everybody. 82 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,320 As I just mentioned, this is South Lake, and this is one location that one of our public 83 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:37,440 meetings someone had expressed is those trail crossings, getting from a park into a neighborhood 84 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:44,280 is a big challenge for us. Looking at call boxes for safety and finding out where those 85 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:50,080 key locations are. We've even talked about putting chargers in certain areas. So if your 86 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,720 phone dies, you could pull over for a little bit and charge it just so you have that ability 87 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,240 to make a call in case of emergency, even if you just wrecked on your bike on your own 88 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,480 and you broke your ankle and you can't do anything and your phone's dead, at least try 89 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:10,920 to have the opportunities for people to charge phones. 90 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,560 Crossing alert system, similar to what we have right outside here, where you hit a button 91 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:22,280 or if it's maybe automatic where it's motion-censored would be an opportunity. So when someone's 92 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:28,240 coming up to an intersection, that light could automatically start in allowing traffic that 93 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:34,480 there's a potential cross coming up. 94 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:40,920 From a trail safety, we've had, there's like any of our parks, we have issues and challenges 95 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,240 and opportunities that we need to figure out how to make the best out of. One opportunity 96 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:52,080 is obviously you can have police officers on bikes, on a bike patrol, or you could have 97 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:58,000 park rangers where they're just trained volunteers, they're not badged, they don't have authority, 98 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,700 but they're the eyes and ears out on the trail system. So if they see a maintenance issue, 99 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:09,440 if they see illegal dumping, or if someone just wants to stop and talk to them about 100 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,440 a concern or issue they have, it's an eyes and ears out on the road that we can communicate 101 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:20,080 with people. And that could be a volunteer type of situation, or it could be various 102 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,700 paid positions or combination thereof. 103 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:29,320 From a CPTED standpoint, crime prevention through environmental design, we did one of 104 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:34,940 these on Quaker Town Park this summer, and that is something that we'd look through the 105 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:38,980 planning when we do all of our trails to make sure that we have adequate safety measures 106 00:10:38,980 --> 00:10:47,320 in place, and we don't have any built in barriers that would create opportunities for inappropriate 107 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:48,320 activity. 108 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:54,020 Hey Gary, can I interrupt you real fast? Can you provide an example of a CPTED? I'm just 109 00:10:54,020 --> 00:10:59,400 trying to grasp, what does that actually look like at Quaker Town? What do y'all think of? 110 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,980 So one example at Quaker Town that came up in the report was lighting under the bridges, 111 00:11:04,980 --> 00:11:08,640 the two bridges that we have, so people can't hide under there, and someone crosses the 112 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:14,280 bridge at two o'clock in the morning, walking home from work, and someone's hiding in there, 113 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,520 and then just jumps out. I'm just kind of eliminating those opportunities where somebody 114 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,760 can hide, where there's bushes really close to a road where someone can hide in a bush, 115 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,960 that type of activity, just to improve safety. 116 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,720 I appreciate that. And Commissioner Beck, you have a question. 117 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,120 Yes, Chair, thank you. Gary, while we're on this topic, and since Chair brought it up, 118 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:42,240 how for these various lights and these various sensors, I assume this is wireless and solar 119 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,680 powered? 120 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:45,680 You're talking about the crossings? 121 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:52,100 Either the crossings and these, the under bridge sensors and other lights and charging 122 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,960 stations and all that. These are wireless and solar powered? 123 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:02,280 Yeah, so we would obviously try to use wireless and solar power wherever we can. Obviously, 124 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:09,280 if we have an eight mile trail like the DCTA rail trail, we can't afford to run electric 125 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:15,140 down that whole stretch. So we're going to be dependent on solar power whenever we can. 126 00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:19,160 If there's opportunities that it makes sense to go ahead and wire it in because we have 127 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,680 electric right here, then we can look at that for sure. 128 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:23,680 Thank you. 129 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:24,680 You're welcome. 130 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:25,680 Commissioner Perneto. 131 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:31,400 Yeah, and a question on this one. So when we're talking about trail safety, I do see that 132 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,840 there'll be patrols and monitors, and we talked about lights. One of the things that I'm just 133 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,480 curious about, and I don't know what our options are, there are always going to be areas that 134 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:47,760 are susceptible to something. I have a lot of friends who are women who like to go walking 135 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:55,080 but are nervous about walking by themselves, even during the daytime. Are we going to have 136 00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:01,080 any infrastructure for camera monitoring, that kind of thing, in areas where we identify 137 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,560 as possibly dangerous or something like that? 138 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:09,960 We're actually talking about something similar to that today for illegal dumping. We have 139 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,600 that activity going on throughout the city and trying to figure out how we can put cameras 140 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:19,520 in certain places that we could monitor it live and see when something's happening. Same 141 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,480 situation here, and Dr. Walker or Drew, please chime in, but if we have areas that we know 142 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,720 maybe we've had frequent issues or it's a pinch point where we have some concerns, we 143 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:39,400 could definitely put roving cameras in there to try to help deter that activity and try 144 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760 to improve that safety ability. 145 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:47,440 Gary, this is Drew Huffman, Assistant Director of Park and Recreation. We are looking at 146 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,160 those. In fact, like Gary said, we had a conversation earlier today about that, and I've already 147 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:59,040 reached out to tech services to see what our options are. We've given them options of what 148 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,540 we've looked at, and then maybe they know something that we don't being in their tech 149 00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:07,960 services in our parks. 150 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:14,100 Especially on remote areas, whether it's a wildlife trail or DCTA trail, those areas 151 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:20,020 of concerns, we can try to prop up something even that's just, "Hey, we have this remotely. 152 00:14:20,020 --> 00:14:25,000 We have five of these. We can deploy these in the matter of an hour and get those out 153 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,760 on the trail to try to help improve safety as we see challenges happening." 154 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Great. Thank you for that pause in the presentation. I think you're good to go. 155 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:47,040 Some existing concerns, obviously erosion, especially when we have gravel or dirt trails 156 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,720 along creeks where we know those are in the flood plain. Those are areas that may want 157 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,240 to look at putting concrete so we could get a backhoe in there, get it cleaned out, and 158 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:01,160 get it reopened fairly soon. Sometimes right-of-ways and easements may be needed to help improve 159 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,360 that as well. Obviously, flooding is a challenge for us, and a lot of these trails will be 160 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,040 in the flood plain, and then lighting, as we talked about, to enhance safety. We currently 161 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,920 have a number of solar-powered lights that we put out the dog park, and we're getting 162 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:24,520 ready to put them in some other parks as some pilot projects to see how well they're working. 163 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,720 Trail tread surface types, I've mentioned a little bit. Concrete is the most expensive. 164 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,120 It's obviously very permanent. We don't have to do a lot of maintenance on it other than 165 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:40,220 maybe some concrete heaving and various cracks. The soft trails, this one here is similar 166 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:45,760 to what we did at the dog park. We put a concrete apron to keep the crushed granite in place. 167 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:52,060 It does still move. We can put a sealant on the crushed granite to try to help that and 168 00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:58,000 reduce the movement on it. It's much more affordable. It's porous. It allows for water 169 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,420 to penetrate through it, but there is some maintenance to it, especially if you have 170 00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:09,640 any topography. Nature trails, again, if it's dirt or natural earth, if the natural earth 171 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,800 is constructed well and it's compacted, you won't have as much movement. Obviously, if 172 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,840 it just rains, it will be muddy and you may have potholes in various areas, but this is 173 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:26,160 very affordable. We could go in there and maybe have a master plan to have X trail would 174 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,320 be concrete, but in order to get it started and get people out in the park right now, 175 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:38,720 we go in and put crushed granite or even millings left over from road work to allow people to 176 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,320 get in there sooner. And then elevated boardwalks are probably the most expensive, and these 177 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:49,640 are probably areas where we have a crossing or we have a lot of water that's in place 178 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:56,640 and we just can't really get a permanent trail, for example, out of Clear Creek. Obviously, 179 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,160 various types of signage, letting people know where restrooms are, where major intersections 180 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:10,200 are, trail maps, businesses, how far your destination is to the next, to downtown, wherever 181 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:17,560 it may be, is critical in providing and improving safety measures as well. And then I'm going 182 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:23,140 to go through some of the inventory we have. Some of these slides you can't visually see, 183 00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:29,440 but it was just to kind of give you a mindset and I can walk through the map here in a second. 184 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:35,440 So this is a list of our existing trails in regards to the surfaces, the length, whether 185 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:41,440 it's internal, it's along a creek or a linear park. So we have roughly 41 miles plus Clear 186 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,200 Creek. So that's constantly changing. We've been GPSing all of our trails, so we've been 187 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,160 modifying those numbers and trying to get really down to a strong number that we feel 188 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,700 really good about. Some projects in motion that have trails at North Lakes Dog Park I 189 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:05,920 had mentioned, Mayhill is completed for the most part except for a last phase. Razor Ranch 190 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,600 is a future park that was built by a developer and will be turned over to the city. Along 191 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,560 with the land, there's a loop trail along that property. Vintage and Bonnie Bray are 192 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,680 under construction. Hickory Creek as well. McKenna Park is out to bid. As we speak, there'll 193 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,960 be an entire concrete loop trail going around the perimeter of that park as well as a new 194 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:36,280 parking lot. And we're master planning Southwest Bowling Green and Villages of Carmel. Overall, 195 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,440 this is kind of mentioned at the very beginning, but the five core areas of trails, whether 196 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:47,320 they're creeks, internal park trails, side paths, paddling trails, and equestrian, total 197 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:55,000 of 210 miles of new trails. Some of these trails may never happen just because of challenges 198 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,880 and what forth that we don't know about at this point in time. Some of them are on private 199 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:05,960 property that we need to get easements or buy land long term. But this plan is to get 200 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,840 us in motion so we can start seeing what the opportunities are and then chipping away at 201 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,980 it. Just because of a trail has 10 phases doesn't mean we're starting at phase one and 202 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:22,480 ending at phase 10. Those could be going back and forth based off of road construction, 203 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,640 property opportunities, easement opportunities, funding in certain areas through our parkland 204 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,280 dedication and development ordinance. So there's a lot of factors that impact that. 205 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,200 Hey, Gary, I think we have a question for Commissioner Smith. 206 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:42,400 Thank you, Chair. Hey, Gary, how are you? How much of the park expansion and strategy 207 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:49,440 is on private land or would need to have some private intervention with easements? 208 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,740 I don't have a hard number. The paddling trails are all on public. The side paths are all 209 00:19:55,740 --> 00:20:01,600 on right-of-ways. Some of those right-of-ways may need to be purchased for that road expansion. 210 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:07,720 The internal parks obviously is on property that we currently own. Where we have the most 211 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:15,560 crossing of public and private is the creeks and drainage areas. So we're assuming we're 212 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,240 following the creeks as much as possible. And I'll show you a couple of those here in 213 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,060 a second. It might give you a better idea. But I would say that would be the area that 214 00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:31,080 we would have the most challenge in regards to having the challenge of having to buy property 215 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,440 or easements. Got it. And have you guys given any thought 216 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:43,120 or work into trying to connect in the already existing trail that is along the DCTRA? Yeah, 217 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:48,160 whatever. The A train, trying to connect it into where that KD trail is to where it can 218 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,960 be much longer to one continuous loop that's more regional rather than just city style. 219 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,880 Yeah, so the goal there is to connect that to the downtown and then over to Mingo. And 220 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:04,040 then you can take Mingo all the way up to Clear Creek and then jump on the Texas Parks 221 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,360 and Wildlife Trail, the green belt, and take that up to Lake Ray Roberts. 222 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,800 Got it. Cool. Thanks. And then hopefully you can go all the way 223 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,840 to Dallas. Yeah, hopefully. 224 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,080 So internal park trails, you know, mountain bike, mountain bike park trail, which I'll 225 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,360 talk about here in a second. McKenna, you know, completing some existing trails we have 226 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:29,840 like Demia, just creating an entire loop around that parcel. Just some little amendments to 227 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:35,640 Joe Skiles. So people who go out there and walk in a circle and be off the street. Unicorn 228 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:42,080 Lake, Briar Cliff, you know, more continuous loops. So not only do we have planned internal 229 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,040 park loops, but we also have regional loops within the city that you might want to go 230 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:53,120 on a four mile trail. You could take these trails and you may be on a side path in a 231 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:58,560 park on a road, a combination of types of trails, but there will be different lengths 232 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:05,480 planned that you could go on a different adventure, you know, every Saturday if you wanted to. 233 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:12,020 And then our creeks and drainage. We have these broken out into phases. They don't typically 234 00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:17,880 relate to what engineering might have for their roads. We put together phases just from 235 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:23,040 a manageable standpoint to get an idea where major barriers are, major cross streets, just 236 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,160 to kind of give you an idea of from here to here, it's this month, just to help with our 237 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,960 planning. We did throw in some fiscal years based on what we know is in the works or what 238 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:41,500 we anticipate being completed, whether it's Hickory Creek, Cooper Creek, Pecan Creek, 239 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:50,080 and Dena in those areas. And then some additional side paths, Mayhill, Bonnie Bray, Hickory 240 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,920 Creek Road, Mingo Trail, which I just talked about, you know, even visioning a trail along 241 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,920 the 288 loop, you know, some of that that's a long term vision, but we wanted to get it 242 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,960 out there so we could at least start having conversations as the city is is working on 243 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,680 all of our plans, whether it's updating the 2030 plan, our Parks Master Plan or working 244 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:17,040 with TxDOT. The paddling trail, obviously coming down from Lake Ray Roberts, following 245 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:26,120 the green belt, we had one dam removed earlier this summer. There's another one at the confluence 246 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:32,480 north of 380 that needs to be removed. So there's some infrastructure challenges there, 247 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,720 but we're pretty excited about the long term opportunity of creating more paddling adventures 248 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:44,880 for our community and then could be a launch destination. And this is, I had mentioned 249 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:51,480 earlier, whether you're coming down the Elm Fork and you're coming through and meandering 250 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,800 into the lake or you want to go from site to site and you want to follow the course 251 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,420 and the outline of the lake itself, there's about 30 or so places where you could launch 252 00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:07,080 from right now. So the goal there is how can we work with all the cities on Lake Louisville 253 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:14,720 to to create that type of opportunity and with the private businesses. And then equestrian 254 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,400 trail obviously is trying to find places where people could bring a trailer in and have horses 255 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:27,720 and cohabitate with general trail users. Trail connectors, this is what it is and this picture 256 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,280 in the background is trying to figure out how we could get under 35 where the railroad 257 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,540 tracks are at Locust where we can use those types of opportunities to get from one point 258 00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:45,280 to another and get under or over top of major roadways. These blue dots are some of the major 259 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,160 connectors that we've identified with TxDOT where we need to work with them where they're 260 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:55,640 doing some planning, whether it's expanding the highways or installing frontage roads 261 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,960 to make sure that we have opportunities to have safe connections and crossways for people, 262 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:10,880 whether they're jogging or on a bike. Mountain, we've met with a couple times with our mountain 263 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:20,000 bike group within the city. We have a pretty strong group of enthusiasts. We've recently 264 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,880 agreed have a memorandum of understanding with our utilities department to use some 265 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,720 property that is not foreseen for what it was originally purchased for. And this is 266 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:35,320 out on Hartley Field. There was original plan for a wastewater treatment plan out there. 267 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,880 I think they're gonna be putting a pump station there. So we have plans to put out a about 268 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:45,680 a five to seven mile mountain bike trail out towards Clear Creek. So we're gonna be going 269 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,240 out in November trying to design that and get an idea of how much effort that would 270 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:56,880 be and then see if we can get volunteers to come out and help build that. Especially trails 271 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,120 whether it's a single track like we just mentioned or a pump track up here in the right corner 272 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:07,840 that are fairly small but provide a lot of activity for various skill levels all the 273 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,080 way to an ATV trail. We don't have anything planned for that but we have had people ask 274 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:21,600 about four wheelers and motorcycles for off road activity. Taking our trails and really 275 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,880 focusing on some educational opportunities. You know bringing the cemeteries really to 276 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,840 life and keeping the memory of those people in our cemeteries whether it's veterans of 277 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:39,400 our wars or founders of our community or just you know any family member trying to get to 278 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:46,560 a point where we can preserve you know a biography of each person that you could go find online. 279 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:53,160 It might be scannable with a QR code or it might even be censored with geofencing where 280 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,960 you're walking in it and something pops up and say here's a revolutionary war veteran. 281 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:05,080 Here you can learn something about that person. And then you know taking the opportunity to 282 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:13,440 memorialize again our military at Ernest Dallas Park, our history trail on DCTA, nature trails 283 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,860 we can learn about trees and flowers and bugs and animals and then even the Denton Walk 284 00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:25,720 of Fame. And then 100 Cole Ranch I know there was a lot of work on this over the past year 285 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:31,520 or so. We have 50 plus miles of trails that are planned for that development whenever 286 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:38,140 that happens. So that's something we'll be working on when time allows us as that development 287 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:46,800 continues to move forward. Funding is going to be the big opportunity for us to find funding 288 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,600 so we can build this you know quicker. Whether it's Texas Parks and Wildlife, North Texas 289 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:58,600 Cog, Council of Governments, or it's just general fund appropriation or bond program. 290 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:04,680 How can we use our money to expand that with grants to really allow us to get more projects 291 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:13,960 done quicker. And then partnerships we can't do this without you. So whether it's a residence, 292 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:21,760 volunteers helping on the trail, local governments, DISD, Denton County, universities, students, 293 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:27,880 funding opportunities, Cog I had mentioned, local interest groups, Dorba or maybe a future 294 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:34,600 Little Dorba for you know Denton County, homeowners and associations, private businesses, bike 295 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,920 shops have been very influential so far and very supportive. Texas Parks and Wildlife, 296 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:48,240 Army Corps of Engineers and so on. So that's the PowerPoint in a nutshell. You know Dr. 297 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,520 Walker, he's on the phone. He's done a lot of this work and he's the one that really 298 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,520 should be doing the presentation because this is really thanks to him and all the effort 299 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,960 he's done for us. And then Drew obviously and staff have put a lot of work into this 300 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:10,520 as well trying to set a vision for Denton for the next 25 plus years. So I'm open for 301 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,040 any questions. I can bring the GIS map up and kind of walk you through a couple trails 302 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:23,160 as well at your convenience. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Hey Gary we briefly 303 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:31,880 touched on this at one of the public meetings but we have one of our major goals is to connect 304 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:39,740 various elements of Denton with the lakes and say downtown for instance and that seems 305 00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:44,560 to be up and down Mingo but you know the entire time I've lived here we've been trying to 306 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:51,280 do that. It seems like the oh I forget the commission that's in charge of railroads. 307 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,800 It's obviously not the railroad commission because this is Texas. Whoever it is that 308 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:04,920 is in charge of railroads there was some bottleneck. Do we have any light at the end of this tunnel 309 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:11,640 in terms of getting easements on that railway easement right away? At this point in time 310 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,760 we haven't specifically worked on Mingo. You know we'll be working with engineering whenever 311 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:24,040 that road is expanded and we might have to go I guess it'd be north west to that side 312 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,680 of the road. Obviously when you're driving down Mingo it looks like there's more than 313 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:35,880 enough room to put a 10-foot trail in there between the road and the railroad itself. 314 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,520 So that's something that we're going to you know if we get the master plan approved continue 315 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,840 working with our engineering group and as the roads are expanded I don't know where 316 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,960 Mingo sits right now in regards to the priorities with everything else going on. I know we've 317 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,420 had communications with TWU about some of the plans they're doing and trying to plan 318 00:30:54,420 --> 00:30:59,720 for that as well on Mingo. Getting all the way out to Clear Creek it could maybe just 319 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,340 go to loop 288 and then everything would be on street from that point in time just because 320 00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:10,800 of the traffic load is a little bit less when you get out there but you know I see that 321 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:16,940 as a major connection from Dallas to Lake Ray Roberts and for those people that want 322 00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:23,600 to drive along take a long bike ride or the like marathon bikers that's a major opportunity 323 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:29,560 for us. I think there's a lot of will from many stakeholders and debt for that to happen 324 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:35,520 but I guess my question was more to is this aspirational at this point or we actually 325 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:42,920 have partners in. Somebody tell me who the commission is that oversees railroads. 326 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,840 This is aspirational obviously we need to aspire to set goals and put our flag in the 327 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,840 ground and say this is what we want to work to and start chipping away at it. In our minds 328 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,740 if we don't get it on paper and get people to start getting excited about it we're never 329 00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:04,240 going to get there. So here's the vision how do you want to get there and do you accept 330 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520 this and then here's the challenge we need to figure out how to fund it we need to figure 331 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,440 out how to make it work and start working through those. That's why you know we definitely 332 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,440 need to make sure that people understand that this isn't a five-year plan. This is you know 333 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,480 25-40 years and some of these things may never happen just because of the very issue that 334 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:27,560 you mentioned but I think there's opportunities for some low-hanging fruit and then there's 335 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,640 some ones that are at the top of the tree that are going to be a little more challenging 336 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,960 to figure out how to get to the fruit. All right thanks so much. Thank you. Gary real 337 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:42,120 quick can you hear me? Yes sir. On in the case of Mingo just from all the different 338 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,200 this is Dr. Walker by the way on all the different cities and even in different states where 339 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:53,200 I've worked on these types of projects the long-term potential for safety for Mingo as 340 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,400 well so if you approach it from the railroad's perspective the last thing they want is a 341 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:04,200 trail by that train where a child could end up getting killed by a train so the highest 342 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,160 likelihood would be to expand the road closer to the railroad track you're more likely to 343 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,040 survive an interaction in a car than on foot and the side path would be on the opposite 344 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,120 side of that road away from the railroad so yes there's a great open space where you could 345 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,280 fit a trail but it also puts people closer to the track and that's the last thing the 346 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,420 railroad's ever want to do. Again just due to safety in the history of that it's never 347 00:33:27,420 --> 00:33:33,800 worked out well so when Mingo gets redone it's highly likely that you would expand Mingo 348 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,000 towards the actual drivable section towards the track and then take the other side to 349 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:45,720 put in your 10 foot side path away from as far away from the train as possible basically. 350 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:51,960 Same issue with 377 if we want to try to connect Denton all the way down to Argyle and Roanoke 351 00:33:51,960 --> 00:34:02,640 and all points south the same situation down there as we have in Mingo as well. If you'd 352 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,280 like I could just send a quick two or three minutes and walk through the map just to kind 353 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:13,840 of give you a sense of the map and the trails. Sounds good. Okay. Hey Gary while you're opening 354 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,000 that up this is Drew I know this committee probably more than any others really realize 355 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,000 how fast Denton's growing. In our side of the house over in operations and planning 356 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,520 we go through each and every single development and especially on the residential side we're 357 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,120 working really hard to get as much property as we can along those floodplain zones for 358 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:43,160 free. So really in just the last two weeks we secured almost almost 120 acres from either 359 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:49,400 an internal department or a developer coming into the city of Denton and that's along the 360 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,440 Hickory Creek over in the new where the new body break bridge is going in. So I just kind 361 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,360 of wanted to point that out that you know this is our goal and we're really working 362 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,680 towards it and we're really looking at every little bit and little bite we can take out 363 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:08,640 of this plan and make this thing happen and you know make our dreams come true with this 364 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:16,440 master 12 plan. So I just wanted to make that point let you know. So this is our GIS map 365 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:22,440 and we're working to get this online so the community can see it. They obviously the outline 366 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,920 of the city the blue bubbles that you see are the 10 minute walk. I think we came and 367 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,360 talked to you maybe a year or so ago about that and our goal is to get green space within 368 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:39,520 a half mile or a 10 minute walk of every resident and keep up with that growth. This is this 369 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,960 is a hundred coal ranch you can see all these green dots here these are neighborhood parks 370 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:50,880 city parks pilot knob which we have a conservation easement with hunter ranch on that one eventually 371 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,440 we'll have just about 100 percent connectivity there whenever that's built. So that will 372 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:01,880 kind of take care of itself but what we need to do is find property in these other areas 373 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:09,560 that that have houses obviously you know in the core of our city a lot of this is university 374 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,600 but to get make sure we have green space there and that doesn't mean we have to be the owner 375 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600 of it that means we need to have make sure that we have public access to it so that may 376 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,960 entail some joint use agreements with the various entities it could be a church could 377 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:28,760 be a university but our goal is to increase that 10 minute walk but ultimately these lines 378 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,600 of various colors are the different trails so for instance this pink line let me let 379 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:48,360 me turn off our 10 minute walk here so it's just a little clear. Okay so this pink line 380 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,680 right here is our DCTA trail and that goes all the way down into Corinth that we still 381 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:59,440 maintain even outside of the city limits as you can see that trail comes up here and then 382 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,720 mingo starts here and mingo would go all the way out to clear creek and then we have to 383 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:13,160 get across the creek and take the green belt north. Starting up here obviously we have 384 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:19,300 miles within clear creek the idea is to have a trail along clear creek itself that would 385 00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:26,440 go from clear creek west along at least to Sherman if not past Sherman at some point 386 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:32,320 in time that would get into the ETJ into other cities so that's a long-term connection opportunity 387 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,520 and then the development that may happen up on the the Carter property up in the northeast 388 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,280 we looked at putting a possible a linear trail in there along the floodplain that would connect 389 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,200 that neighborhood this is the mountain bike proposed mountain bike location that we were 390 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:53,960 talking about cooper creek obviously it starts right now basically at north lakes and goes 391 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:59,240 north up to north point park and then it starts heading east through some city property through 392 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:04,620 city parks and then through some linear parks there are some challenges where it gets narrowed 393 00:38:04,620 --> 00:38:09,320 that we might have to go on road so those are obviously quick wins where we can go on 394 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,440 road or we have an existing on road path and taking that all the way to the lake this section 395 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,460 here is where there's a lot of private property that we'd have to work through so whether 396 00:38:18,460 --> 00:38:24,840 or not this happens is still would be up in the air pecan creek specifically starting 397 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,080 at fred moore park or the katie trail and here it's for the most part it's government 398 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:37,180 property it's you know whether it's city dedicated parkland or city land or county land there's 399 00:38:37,180 --> 00:38:43,240 one development that's kind of in the middle here that we've had discussions to put about 400 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:48,720 five miles of trails in there if that development would move forward so that's obviously still 401 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:54,360 up in the air and there's still a lot of opportunities for that to move forward or have challenges 402 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,700 but then we get into the landfill and we're on the north side or the east side of pecan 403 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:03,600 creek that's underutilized right now that would get us the army corps property into 404 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,700 the lake so this one is probably the easiest linear trail for us to do just because it's 405 00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:17,240 primarily government property hickory creek starting down basically at old alton bridge 406 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:21,680 you can go a little bit southeast of old alton bridge but then there's a significant amount 407 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,540 of army corps property there's some city parks there is some private property through this 408 00:39:26,540 --> 00:39:30,720 that we have to work but there's also a lot of opportunity to go on road and then back 409 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:36,760 off road so we can work around some of those private property issues if it was for the 410 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,720 short term and then long term you know maybe there's an option to purchase at some point 411 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:47,240 in time that could take us all the way up and connect with university trail and then 412 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:52,720 hickory creek has a few kind of spurs off of it as well and then you have hickory creek 413 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:58,720 road that'll eventually turn into brush creek and go over to 35 and connect over to hunter 414 00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:06,200 coal so there's a trail plan for along there vintage is already under construction here 415 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,200 and then bonnie bray would be another major crossroads there that would eventually go 416 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:19,640 all the way up to 77 and potentially go under 288 loop so that just gives you a snapshot 417 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:28,080 again a lot of visioning here and a lot of things have to happen to move forward partnerships 418 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:35,200 funding obviously construction you know purchasing of land all those things have to happen for 419 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,720 some of these to fall into place for sure but our thought was to get it on paper get 420 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:46,400 everyone's vision going in the same direction and then put it put it into a plan and then 421 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:53,120 start moving forward and figure out how we can chip away at it so that that's it that's 422 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:59,280 the the trails chapter in a nutshell there's a lot of information there for just a chapter 423 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,980 thank you to dr walker and staff for all they work all the work they've done obviously we're 424 00:41:03,980 --> 00:41:09,600 not done yet we're still looking for feedback if you have ideas or thoughts today or you 425 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,720 want to share something down the road please feel free to reach out to us we're always 426 00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:22,520 up for ideas and this is a very dynamic opportunity with a lot of challenges but then i think 427 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,400 we're at a great point to try to make it work too obviously the best time to do this would 428 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,160 have been 20 years ago but the second best time is today so that's kind of where we're 429 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:38,600 at as part of our parks and recreation and trail system master plan i certainly appreciate 430 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,480 it gary for the presentation is there any questions before we go to our next agenda 431 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:54,000 item i do not see any again thank you very much thank you before we go into our next 432 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,840 work session report i just wanted to let the record show that commissioner anderson has 433 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:06,240 joined us happy to have you here uh and then we can move on to item 2b and this is to receive 434 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,200 a report regarding outcomes of city council work session regarding plugged gas well issues 435 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:18,640 etc listed on the agenda richard who is presenting this item this evening this will be hayley 436 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:40,240 oh fantastic thanks gary she's getting ready now 437 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:47,120 hayley whenever you're ready the floor is yours all right all right good afternoon everyone 438 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,680 so this is just an update to let you all know about a discussion we had regarding plugged 439 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:57,660 wells with city council yesterday during their work session so i'll just run through this 440 00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:02,360 briefly and you all feel free to to jump in if you have any questions or i'll try to remember 441 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,120 and take some pauses so that we can address things as we go along so just a little background 442 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,800 on what what led to this there were two separate council member requests for work sessions 443 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:17,040 regarding plugged gas wells the first was regarding risk and public protections and 444 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,180 the second was regarding what sort of incentives we could could possibly introduce into the 445 00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:28,120 code to encourage the plugging of wells so to start off with this is kind of the status 446 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,920 of where we're at today within the city we have 38 plugged gas wells and 22 in our etj 447 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:39,060 there are some limited code requirements related to gas well plugging primarily relates to 448 00:43:39,060 --> 00:43:44,320 inspections so we do require that an operator give staff notice of when they intend to plug 449 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:50,100 a well our inspectors are then able to go out and monitor that that process as it occurs 450 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:54,900 we require the location of the well be provided if we don't already have it on file as well 451 00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:59,640 as requiring that they follow all railroad commission requirements and provide us copies 452 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,080 of those plugging reports for our record so that we know the wells were plugged in accordance 453 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:09,920 with state standards so again back to those initial requests this is broken down into 454 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,680 three topics so we'll cover risk and then public protections and then the incentives 455 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,800 with regard to risk staff both in environmental services and within planning did some research 456 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,960 into this topic preparing for the work session and we found that there were kind of three 457 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,720 primary categories where risk could occur the first being with orphaned wells and then 458 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:34,000 with groundwater contamination and air emissions and we'll look at each of these briefly in 459 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:40,000 turn so with regard to orphaned wells this is it's a term that the railroad commission 460 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,960 uses essentially for when an operator has has left a well in place but they have not 461 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,200 plugged it so the wells considered orphaned and abandoned at that point but is not properly 462 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,640 plugged so there there could still be some activity occurring there the railroad condition 463 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:59,120 or railroad commission maintains the database of all gas well locations across the state 464 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,640 this includes those orphaned and abandoned wells as well as active gas wells and within 465 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,760 the city of denton the city maintains a similar database so our gis team updates this every 466 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,320 time our inspectors tell us that a well has been plugged so just looking at the map here 467 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,000 if you go to the city interactive map and turn on the gas well layer that you see here 468 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,000 you'll see that plugged wells show up as kind of a darker red diamond whereas active wells 469 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,400 are shown with the brighter red circle and there's a drop down menu on the side where 470 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,400 you can can see the legend for what all of these symbols mean but this is just one of 471 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,840 the tools that we offer to inform the public of of where these wells are located as well 472 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:40,100 as developers when they come in to to develop a property it's important to note that according 473 00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:43,640 to the railroad commission although we have many plugged wells within the city there are 474 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,000 no orphaned wells within the city of denton and the state does maintain a program where 475 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,160 they they set aside money to to go in and plug these orphan wells over time to ensure 476 00:45:52,160 --> 00:46:00,260 that they do eventually get plugged and in accordance with the standards looking at groundwater 477 00:46:00,260 --> 00:46:04,760 contamination i think it's important to to look briefly at the plugging process itself 478 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,200 which is designed to prevent this exact concern so this is something that the railroad commission 479 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,040 regulates the city is preempted from from regulating this process at all it is a below 480 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,640 ground process in the city under house bill 40 only has regulatory authority for things 481 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:26,160 that occur above the ground this graphic here it may be hard to see but this is from a document 482 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,760 that the railroad commission puts out that summarizes the plugging process essentially 483 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,440 it's a series of cement plugs put into the ground so where there is a groundwater strata 484 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,440 there's a hundred foot plug that's required that is set to start 50 feet below the the 485 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,280 start of that water and 50 feet above it so that there's a hundred foot of total depth 486 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:51,400 of cement preventing gas or oil in some instances we don't have much of that in denton from 487 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,880 intruding into the groundwater layers these standards have been in place for many decades 488 00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,520 it's the same standards that the state uses when they go and plug wells this is what developers 489 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:05,720 are required to follow and they file a plugging report that shows the depth and the the top 490 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:14,100 and bottom of each one of these concrete strata as they set them so again collaborated with 491 00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:18,120 environmental services on this work session and we did some research into what studies 492 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:24,600 have been done oh i see a question there from commissioner beck yeah commissioner beck i 493 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,800 wanted to stand thank you thank you chair thank you haley i want to stay on that slide 494 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:37,080 just for a second um so um i i was uh at a meeting at ut austin um just recently where 495 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:45,400 they were doing simulations of exactly this exact thing um uh and the 496 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:51,520 this is this the the it's germane because uh they were finding that these plugs degrade 497 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:56,480 under conditions of micro fractures which we've been having throughout texas and oklahoma 498 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:03,440 due to the fracking and where the plugs are not stable so my question is um four plugged 499 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,240 wells and if you're going to come to it just tell me you're going to come to it but what 500 00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:14,120 is our inspection process to make sure that these kinds of plugs stay plugged and do their 501 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:20,760 job um so the city's inspection process um again we're we basically don't have authority 502 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,840 to regulate anything that occurs below the ground um so the best we can do with the plugging 503 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,760 process is ask that they provide us documentation that they've met the state standards that's 504 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,500 the plugging report that i referenced that shows um again it just documents what the 505 00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:39,280 cementer on site has done where they've put the top and bottom of each of these what type 506 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,160 of concrete mixture they use that sort of information is on there um so we obtain a 507 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,440 copy of that form and our inspectors um go on site throughout the plugging process to 508 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,280 make sure that that everything seems to be going um as planned they you know they check 509 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,320 in with the railroad commission who also monitors the process and then they make sure that all 510 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,200 the equipment's removed from the site um they do a survey to ensure that all radioactive 511 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,360 uh containing materials are removed from the site and that sort of thing but but we are 512 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,360 very limited as a city into as to what we can regulate with respect to this process 513 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:15,760 um so mostly what they look for is the above ground cleanup of the site so for a real quick 514 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:24,280 follow-up um does either do either we or the state or the county periodically monitor to 515 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:30,880 to make sure that these are stable that i'm not sure of it would be a state um a railroad 516 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,560 commission uh program if there was one i'm not aware of one but that's not to say that 517 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,240 one doesn't exist but it would be through the railroad commission if it did okay thank 518 00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:48,360 you all right so uh this was kind of the the the key study that we found that that informed 519 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,560 this topic um specific to texas with related uh relationship to groundwater contamination 520 00:49:53,560 --> 00:50:00,000 um this was a study done in 2011 it looked at a 16 year period with data uh from uh groundwater 521 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,040 contamination incidents across the state they've they found 211 incidents of contamination 522 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:11,280 um during that time the study reported that there were over 250 000 producing wells during 523 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:16,120 that 16 year time frame during that time 140 000 wells were plugged and would have fallen 524 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,960 into uh into the incidents that they were looking at what they found was only one of 525 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,840 the 211 uh was a contamination incident related to plugging um they did find their largest 526 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:32,720 sources were from waste management and production phase releases of materials on site um 30 527 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,240 were from orphaned wells which again are those wells that have not yet been plugged but have 528 00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:42,000 been abandoned in place so this was the only example we found specific to texas that documented 529 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:48,600 um how how often groundwater contamination is an issue and then moving on the the final 530 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,000 risk topic that we explored for this uh was with regard to air emissions um again we did 531 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,080 that that sweep to look for any studies that might inform uh this issue specific to texas 532 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,680 and did not find any um that's not to say there aren't any but we did not come across 533 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:07,840 them um the primary air emission that we found information related to was of course methane 534 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,000 since these are natural gas wells and the most informative um again with respect to 535 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,720 to how often is this a concern uh was one from 2016 that looked at four different oil 536 00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:23,160 and gas basins across the united states um that particular study surveyed uh wells that 537 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,720 were on public property they found 119 plugged wells and 19 abandoned wells that they could 538 00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:32,320 go out and monitor for methane emissions and they found that one out of the 119 plugged 539 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,560 wells was a positive source it was a very very low amount of methane that was emitting 540 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,080 from that well that one was positive whereas eight of the 19 abandoned wells were positive 541 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:48,800 sources for methane and then um unless there are any questions on any of that material 542 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:54,920 we'll go on to the next piece i don't see any hayley all right um so the second topic 543 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,880 that council asked us to look into were public protections um so looking at this from the 544 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:03,300 perspective of what could the city do to raise awareness and inform people about this topic 545 00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:07,840 and ensure that people are protected um we found the primary tools that are used are 546 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,960 within respect to inspections uh setbacks or easements required around plugged wells 547 00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,920 and then surface mark marking of the well locations um so again as i as i mentioned 548 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,640 earlier just briefly um the city does have an inspection program that covers both active 549 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,320 and plugged wells um the once the inspectors are informed of a plugging operation they go 550 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:32,400 out and monitor the process and we do require copies of those railroad commission reports 551 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,400 be submitted back to us so that we can close out the well log in our system and have a 552 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,560 record that uh that state standards were followed daily spot checks are done during the plugging 553 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,280 process and our inspectors closely monitor the restoration of the site the state has 554 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,720 requirements for this uh but typically our inspector will will coordinate with the property 555 00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:55,360 owner of the the surface property and ensure that uh that their standards and the operator's 556 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,480 standards are on par and that we're monitoring to make sure the site gets back to a condition 557 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:04,120 that is amenable to them um oftentimes a property owner will ask that the gravel be left in 558 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,420 place for example so that they can go do something else with that area of their property once 559 00:53:08,420 --> 00:53:12,840 the well is gone um and then of course our inspectors do that survey to ensure that any 560 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,800 equipment that contain naturally occurring radioactive material has been removed from 561 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:22,080 the site before we close out uh that that well record and then we'll look at setbacks 562 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:28,520 and well marking a little more closely so uh as part of this uh preparation for this 563 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:34,320 i i did survey area dfw cities that have gas well ordinances um i looked at 42 other cities 564 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:39,640 around the the metroplex um and kind of what their standards were and how denton compares 565 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,040 to that um so one thing that we touched on yesterday with council was that um up until 566 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,960 our most recent overhaul of the gas well ordinance we had just kind of a standard statement in 567 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,120 our ordinance that said that no structure could be built over and abandoned well um 568 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,760 i believe that was kind of inadvertently left out when the overhaul was done in 2015 and 569 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,540 hasn't been added back to the code since um and that is something that council advised 570 00:54:01,540 --> 00:54:06,840 us that they would like to see put back into the code um so again looking at how we compare 571 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:12,120 to other cities 34 of the 42 that i looked at did have a requirement stated almost exactly 572 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,920 like this that simply said no structure can be built over and abandoned well nine of them 573 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:22,320 did not have a requirement for that uh seven of the cities did actually require a a fairly 574 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:27,000 small setback around a well the most common was a five foot radius so a 10 foot total 575 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:32,820 uh circle around the plug wellhead other common or um other numbers that i saw again there 576 00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:38,360 were only seven of them so so very few but uh 10 and 20 feet were also utilized um and 577 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,840 then several of the cities uh 10 out of the 42 had a requirement that there be a physical 578 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,680 marker placed on top of the ground um and that and i'll i believe in all of the instances 579 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:54,200 was a pipe that was four inches in diameter was stamped with the well id and the gps location 580 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:59,960 of the well and was set at a height of four feet above the ground commissioner beck do 581 00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:06,200 you have a question yeah christopher beck thank you chair uh these these were the the 582 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:11,920 north texas uh comparables essentially is what we're talking about correct yeah the 583 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:17,240 specific cities you see here kind of are are more more close to denton uh comparable cities 584 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:21,760 the search i did included you know south of dallas um and and kind of all over the metroplex 585 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:27,120 but these were the closest to denton and and did you happen to look uh sort of more nationwide 586 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:33,560 at pennsylvania colorado some of the other gas producing states at what their general 587 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:40,680 uh characteristics were so i i did look fairly generally across uh the country uh colorado 588 00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,960 does i don't recall the numbers off the top of my head they do have fairly robust requirements 589 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,240 um i believe in the realm of more than 100 feet uh from a plugged well pennsylvania i 590 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:55,200 don't recall but i believe they also had a similar uh setback again those being very 591 00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:02,000 different formations um that that you'd be producing from uh than the barnett shale um 592 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,480 but for this year we tried to stay local to dfw and look at things that would be a comparable 593 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:13,360 formation to us okay thank you so much 594 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,540 and then uh the the final topic we covered with council was with respect to incentives 595 00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:22,040 so council had asked us to look into what types of zoning or land use incentives could 596 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:26,980 be could be put into place to encourage developers to plug wells as they look to develop properties 597 00:56:26,980 --> 00:56:33,160 um so i wanted to start with kind of showing where where we're at today so when there's 598 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:38,600 a gas well site as you're familiar with we now have a 500 foot reverse setback what you 599 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,760 see here is an example of a site on wenser so the pad sites outlined in purple the the 600 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:50,000 blue line here shows that 500 foot um reverse setback radius so if we were looking at the 601 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:55,280 site adjacent to the gas well that's approximately 10 acres um within the 500 foot reverse setback 602 00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:00,760 9.35 acres of that site would be encumbered so for protected use uh were to develop here 603 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,200 they would have that to contend with and have very limited area that they could develop 604 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:10,040 um as you're familiar with from the recent updates we did provide for a process for them 605 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,400 to go to zba and seek a variance that could take that back to 250 which is our minimum 606 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,120 reverse setback and that's what's shown in red however once the once these wells are 607 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:24,080 plugged and this site is remediated and according to state standards those setbacks go away 608 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:30,160 so what's shown here is just a hypothetical if we were to introduce a 20 foot radius on 609 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:35,800 either side of a plugged well which is a number that we got from a couple of recent um muds 610 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,280 that have gone to city council um that had plugged wells they they voluntarily established 611 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,920 a 20 foot radius around those for nothing to be built uh that that kind of tan circle 612 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,000 that you see around the red wellhead is what that would look like so so this site in this 613 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:54,800 example would regain the use of almost their entire property um if these wells were plugged 614 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,620 so that's just an example of kind of the inherent value of plugging the gas wells is that all 615 00:57:58,620 --> 00:58:03,820 of that land then becomes available for development with protected uses even if we were to establish 616 00:58:03,820 --> 00:58:07,600 that no build easement comparable to what we've seen in other cities even going on the 617 00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:14,800 upper end at 20 feet it would still be a significant increase in the amount of land available 618 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,840 some of the other things that we discussed with council again we're just a summary of 619 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,640 some of the flexibility tools we have in the code today these are things that that anyone 620 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:26,080 could use that we could either um you know they they could apply in scenarios where a 621 00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,440 well is plugged or we could look at expanding these if there's interest in that so the minor 622 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:35,320 modification is kind of for those dimensional standards um as a first step instead of going 623 00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:39,800 to directly to zba to get a variance from some of these uh setback standards or building 624 00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,400 coverage we have the minor modification where you could request up to a 10 reduction in 625 00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,680 those criteria which for a setback is often no more than one foot um and that could be 626 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,200 approved administratively so this is a tool that we already have that we could potentially 627 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:59,920 expand um if if the council directed us to for plugged wells cluster subdivisions is 628 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:05,440 another flexibility tool built into the code already um it the way it's written it is specifically 629 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,960 geared to areas where they're preserving open space um particularly environmentally sensitive 630 00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:15,400 areas it does require 30 percent of the land area be set aside for open space um so this 631 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,160 is something that could um already be applied in this scenario but we could certainly look 632 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:25,160 at clarifying the language and the intent statement for that to specify that that this isn't something 633 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,900 we encourage if you plug a gas well is to pursue this option where you leave more open 634 00:59:29,900 --> 00:59:34,600 space available for community use but you can in return reduce the minimum lot size 635 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:40,760 for residential development some of the other tools we offer sub chapter seven if you look 636 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:45,600 through the code covers landscaping and site design as well as parking is another crucial 637 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:50,840 element of that so for multi-family and non-residential protected uses this would be where a lot of 638 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:55,240 the flexibility would be found in the code today for example we have alternative landscape 639 00:59:55,240 --> 01:00:00,520 plans that can be pursued if the um the specific requirements for where we require landscaping 640 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:06,200 and how much landscaping um is is infeasible for a site they can pursue that option we 641 01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,560 also do have some parking flexibility baked in again for the multi-family and non-residential 642 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,820 primarily so those tools would be available today and we could certainly look at expanding 643 01:00:14,820 --> 01:00:19,560 any of those if there was interest in it and then the final element i wanted to touch on 644 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:24,400 is just an example of how we've already created a toolkit such as this with that administrative 645 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,920 waiver that was introduced when the setback was increased from 250 feet to 500 feet so 646 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,320 this is again something we could model after for plugged wells to create kind of a gas 647 01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:40,360 well unique flexibility toolkit commissioner beck do you have a question yes thank you 648 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:47,320 chair hailey i'm i'm unclear um can uh do the existing standards or any of the proposed 649 01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:55,320 standards um allow parking lot to be put over we have that sort of we we lost that that 650 01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:00,680 that provision in our current ordinance but were we putting previously were we putting 651 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:06,560 parking lots on top of uh plugged gas wells so the way the the code was worded previously 652 01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,660 it just said no structure could be built over a well the ddc typically defines a structure 653 01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:14,960 i believe our previous codes did as well um that essentially it's vertical improvement 654 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:20,600 so so something such as paving typically isn't considered a structure a fence or an accessory 655 01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,120 building or something like that would be a structure so i don't know of any specifically 656 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:31,200 but in theory there could be a parking lot over a gas well for example um once it's plugged 657 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,720 um we do try to encourage as much as possible that those plugged wells be located if it's 658 01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:40,480 a residential development within an hoa lot um but currently we have no standard to say 659 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:45,320 that that you have to make sure the plug well is any certain location or that there's nothing 660 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:53,840 over it so anything we add to the code would be improving that situation okay thank you 661 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,960 and then we did explore some new options with council um you know in lieu of expanding the 662 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:04,040 existing options in the code we could look at instead of adding density back as council 663 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:11,360 initially was interested in since we don't strictly require density limitations on development 664 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:16,280 we monitor based on lot size so the way we could could accomplish that is by allowing 665 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,200 a certain percentage of the land area within a residential development to you to have smaller 666 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,960 lot sizes so similar to clustering but but kind of tailoring that to these areas and 667 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,840 just allowing a certain amount of that within a development and we'll look at an example 668 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:33,160 of that in just a second some of the other things that came up that we don't have in 669 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,280 the code today that we could look at adding would be parking reductions for for the lower 670 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:42,620 intensity residential uses single-family duplex and townhome for example we require four spaces 671 01:02:42,620 --> 01:02:47,640 per unit that is that is higher than a lot of cities in the area that only require two 672 01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:53,440 which is was our standard up until about two years ago um and then also for residential 673 01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,800 development some things that we we thought might be considered would be for example adding 674 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,600 a requirement that the well be within an open space or allowing reductions to the minimum 675 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:08,680 amount of required open space if you do plug a well and put it in that area as an incentive 676 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,980 or modifying minimum unit sizes or building height would all be examples of things that 677 01:03:12,980 --> 01:03:19,480 that may help incentivize a developer to plug a well so looking at that lot size example 678 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:25,400 this just shows r4 and r6 so the standard for r6 for example 6000 square feet if we 679 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,320 said if you if you plug the gas well on the property you can have uh 30 of your land area 680 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:35,400 developed with lots that are 30 smaller this is what that would look like those lots um 681 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,280 30 of them could go down to 4200 square feet and they would gain nine lots in that example 682 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:47,160 um so this didn't seem like a very high number to us so before going to council with this 683 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:52,600 we did approach the dallas builders association that's the regional represent representation 684 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:57,800 group for all of our major home builders many of dentons builders are a member of that so 685 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:02,320 we went to them for some initial feedback on would this sort of thing even be an incentive 686 01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:08,560 would it be enough incentive to pursue plugging a gas well they they did not feel like it 687 01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:13,020 was their take on this was that given the current market demand for kind of standard 688 01:04:13,020 --> 01:04:18,480 size lots with standard building pads that allowing some of the lots to be smaller wouldn't 689 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:23,840 necessarily help anything for them um instead they they said that the bigger incentive for 690 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,400 a developer would be of course looking at offsetting those financial costs that they 691 01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:33,360 would incur by plugging a well they specifically indicated that waivers to our park fees our 692 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,520 tree mitigation fees or even development review and impact fees might be more of an incentive 693 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:42,560 for them to help with that financial burden um hey hayley how much does it cost to plug 694 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:50,560 a gas well um that is there's not a set number it's kind of situational specific to how the 695 01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:56,120 well was initially drilled um you know how uh what the pressure of the well is for example 696 01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:00,600 could play into that there's many factors um i did find in researching this that the 697 01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:05,240 railroad commission um has kind of an average they publish for each district based on the 698 01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:09,440 cost they incur through that orphan well program and that it was in the ballpark of about four 699 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:14,800 dollars and 30 cents per foot of depth that has to be plugged in the well um so i looked 700 01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:20,600 at some examples of recent well plugins for example um in the dreary track that we recent 701 01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,800 recently saw a preliminary platform i think it worked out to be about thirty three thousand 702 01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:28,440 dollars just for the actual cementing of the well um that number from what i could tell 703 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:33,920 on the railroad commission site did not include um removing equipment from the site any remediation 704 01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:39,440 that might have to occur from contamination that could have been on there um so thirty 705 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:47,340 thousand and up probably would be a fair estimate for that gotcha thank you um so we we posed 706 01:05:47,340 --> 01:05:50,960 these questions to council so i kind of run through uh the guidance that they left us 707 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:56,320 with yesterday um with regards to number one they they were all unanimously in favor of 708 01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:00,960 adding back a prohibition against building on top of a gas well many of them even said 709 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,180 they would prefer it go beyond structures and also include paving and other improvements 710 01:06:05,180 --> 01:06:10,440 so that the well is strictly left in an open area um with respect to number two um again 711 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:15,320 there was general consensus that we we should establish some sort of no build easement um 712 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:21,080 the the gist of uh the group or the majority of them um thought that 20 feet seemed reasonable 713 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:25,080 but they wanted us to find a way to be as flexible with that as possible um so the goal 714 01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,120 of that easement again would be ensuring nothing's built there but also ensuring that access 715 01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:33,080 could be maintained to the well if for some reason there was a casing failure and they 716 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:39,060 did have to go back in and and redo um some of the cement that that radius would leave 717 01:06:39,060 --> 01:06:43,880 um in theory enough room for them to get in with equipment and do that um but council 718 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,080 was encouraging us to find a way to make that flexible so instead of saying the well has 719 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:52,080 to be exactly center could we could we say you you provide x amount of area within the 720 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,160 easement but you can offset it you know to one side for example if they needed to to 721 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,380 work within their development um so we'll be exploring options with regard to that to 722 01:07:00,380 --> 01:07:06,880 see um you know how how that could be worked around um and then with respect to incentives 723 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:12,840 they kind of left uh left staff with direction to to explore the existing uh options in the 724 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,800 code look at how to expand clustering and things like that uh to be more applicable 725 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:22,360 in these scenarios but they were not in favor of the financial offsets that the dallas builders 726 01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:27,780 association requested um so we will we'll be exploring all of these things in the future 727 01:07:27,780 --> 01:07:31,800 and that is my last slide so i will um i'll stop sharing this and then we can open it 728 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:37,160 up for discussion and any recommendations that you all may have christner back thank 729 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:43,480 you chair um hayley um so you early on in your presentation you sort of indicated say 730 01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,840 on that example at windsor and i'm not asking you to bring it back up because i think we 731 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:52,240 can recall it that they gained back the use of that property based on our reverse setbacks 732 01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:58,360 and uh no longer being in play uh because it's a plugged well and even with some of 733 01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:03,240 these uh other restrictions that council was interested in you still are gaining back the 734 01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:10,240 majority of that property so how is that not the financial incentive i guess my i'm i'm 735 01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,800 trying to understand why we need additional financial incentives other than just getting 736 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:20,600 the land back in use that that's a fair question um that's that's kind of the direction that 737 01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:25,080 a lot of council felt like as well um but in the the spirit of encouraging this as much 738 01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:29,640 as possible i think uh they were interested in if there were other things in the ddc that 739 01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,360 we could just for example clearing up the applicability of clustering to say that yes 740 01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:38,000 this is this can be applied in this scenario if you're still following the open space guidelines 741 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,000 um that's something that we could look at um but i i think in general they were kind 742 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,480 of on the same page as you is that regaining the land in itself is probably going to be 743 01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:51,520 a market incentive enough as we've seen with some recent developments sage work for example 744 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:56,680 uh plugged well to facilitate that development um we had recently a subdivision on ryan road 745 01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,880 that did the same thing um and then the jury tract like i mentioned off of i believe that's 746 01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:06,880 off of highland park road uh was another recent example so i i suspect that is the case but 747 01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:11,400 they asked us to pursue you know just seeing what other flexibility we can find with the 748 01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:15,800 reason oh yeah sorry to interrupt i apologize it does seem like developers are choosing 749 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:22,320 that option on their own to get the land back so i i mean there there i think well you know 750 01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,200 this is me personally i think there's lots of room for flexibility we can build into 751 01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:31,200 our zoning laws to for you know clusters and other things that are appealing it feels like 752 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:36,560 maybe we do those for other good reasons and maybe not for gas wells um so anyway thanks 753 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:45,840 hailey um hailey just uh to to um speak real fast and i think tim smith uh christopher smith 754 01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:53,080 was next um i 100 agree with commissioner beck on this uh that graph the the windsor property 755 01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:58,840 you showed highlights it pretty clear to me that uh if they want to use the property they 756 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:04,800 got to plug the well um so it i'm not shocked that developers want a lot of financial kickbacks 757 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:11,360 or help for the thirty thousand dollar plus cost it's going to be but it it does seem 758 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:19,560 that there is an incentive built in to use of land um with that um i did have a question 759 01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:27,400 about um the the setbacks on the the 20 feet when they did the the air emission um that 760 01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:33,560 risk the with the i think you i don't know what i'm saying the air quality emissions 761 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:39,360 from the site were they doing it like directly above the plug or did they go out 20 feet 762 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:44,920 and and measure it there do you know um i believe it was was fairly close to the well 763 01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,520 head like you know like you said probably directly above the well head or within just 764 01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:54,840 a few feet of it um i don't recall a specific radius being referenced there um 20 feet my 765 01:10:54,840 --> 01:11:00,160 understanding is that um primarily was driven for for access to the well site um and speaking 766 01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:05,360 to our gas well inspector um in the past um he had indicated that the type of rig that 767 01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:09,720 they have to get in uh if they do need to re-cement the well or if there's a casing 768 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:16,600 failure for example um does does need a fairly large area to work around um and and kind 769 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:23,200 of a 40-foot circle seemed sufficient for that um again that's that's no scientific 770 01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:26,720 data to support that that's just the general uh kind of rule of thumb that he spoke to 771 01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:31,260 and then um again a couple of the the muds that have recently gone before council offered 772 01:11:31,260 --> 01:11:36,880 that as as their standard um so just for consistency that was our recommendation to council was 773 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:43,120 that we stick with that 20 feet that we've already established okay gotcha commissioner 774 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:51,060 smith um a couple things i'm i'm the uh i agree with uh commissioner beck and chair 775 01:11:51,060 --> 01:11:56,200 roselle on the getting access back to that that piece of property that just kind of does 776 01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,960 seem to find chance and if i do see where the builders are coming from there that you 777 01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:04,720 know in this in the property you showed us that example correct me if i'm wrong but that 778 01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:09,280 that that well that they're going to plug is not on their their their property it's 779 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:14,160 on the property next to them and so i could see that being hey we want to develop our 780 01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:19,120 property but our neighbor has a well and that that kind of being maybe a conundrum in their 781 01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:24,080 mind but at the same time it's you know you should if you want being that land back that's 782 01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:30,600 on you one thing that might be a dumb question or a dumb suggestion and i don't know how 783 01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:36,120 it can be built into the code but something where if there was a plug gas well ordinance 784 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:42,760 that had setbacks that would force any property that was going to develop that because most 785 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,880 of these properties that are going to be in that area probably aren't already zoned correctly 786 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:52,680 and they'd have to come before a zoning process that they'd be forced into doing a pd just 787 01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:57,480 because of the provisions that are within the pd of having a codified site plan that's 788 01:12:57,480 --> 01:13:02,280 within that zoning so that if it comes in front of you know the plan zoning commission 789 01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:07,000 in front of city council to be rezoned to be developed into a residential property that 790 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:12,440 the pd and a site plan would be solidified there so that there's some oversight on how 791 01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:16,720 that site plan we've built and then proximity to a gas well i don't know if that if there's 792 01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:21,920 ability or if i'm just sound like an idiot now but uh any feedback on that haley no no 793 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,880 i understand where you're coming from with that that's something we could we could certainly 794 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:29,960 look into um again not sure how feasible it would be but we can we can talk that through 795 01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,480 and and talk with cynthia about it and see see if we can find a way to work something 796 01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:37,920 like that in to ensure there is some extra oversight okay cynthia just from island notification 797 01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:41,640 is that that's something that can be done is that is that is there a legal ramification 798 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,600 on that 799 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:49,640 commissioner smith are you asking whether we can require someone to zone the property 800 01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:54,480 pd if they have a gas well uh if they have a gas well or whether they're within a let's 801 01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:59,320 say the gas well ordinance says if your property is within more than 30 of your properties 802 01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:04,520 within 250 setback 10 or 50 foot setback from plug gas well you're requiring you're requesting 803 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:10,240 a zoning rezoning you have to go pd that's something certainly something that we can 804 01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:19,880 explore okay all right thanks for your all right you're very you're very robust i appreciate 805 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:27,640 or or encourage thank you okay thank you uh christner beck thank you chair um so commissioner 806 01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:33,000 smith's question about the pd makes me think at various stages when we're doing development 807 01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:37,280 as we've recovered this land and regardless of what sort of right of ways and easements 808 01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:43,520 and setbacks that we put in place um and maybe you know again maybe this is i can't i don't 809 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:48,760 know this is a development or a legal question but is it something where at these various 810 01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:59,120 stages we could require development around a gas well to re-monitor to go out and retest 811 01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:03,720 because this this goes to my very first question at this presentation is you know you know 812 01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:09,400 i actually have firsthand knowledge of people doing real world work on plugs that are breaking 813 01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:15,560 and and you know we didn't have fractures you know 20 years ago but now we do and if 814 01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:23,880 those fractures are uh microquakes are breaking the plugs then it behooves us to go and make 815 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:30,720 sure that those plugs are continuing to be safe for the surrounding neighbors and so 816 01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:37,320 is this something where we could have a an additional rider of some sort that said you 817 01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:41,960 know if you're going to develop at you know a plat or a engineering plan or or whatever 818 01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:47,520 that we could require you to rebook excuse me to re-monitor the current conditions to 819 01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:59,640 make sure that they still met guidelines i don't know who would answer that um looking 820 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:04,920 over at richard i'm not sure that we could require that um we could maybe explore that 821 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:09,760 option yeah i don't know if that would fall under house bill 40 of regular again i don't 822 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:16,760 know this would be above ground for the most part obviously you wouldn't the inspectors 823 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:22,600 you know all that below ground stuff it had been was done presumably this would be whatever 824 01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,920 components were above ground that would be in our purview i think we can look into it 825 01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:32,080 the only question i would have i guess probably more for for legal is whose responsibility 826 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:37,840 is it is that the the surface owner or um did that individual who did the the well still 827 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,400 have mineral rights that it would could could or would be their responsibility i think we 828 01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:46,000 just have to have to run that down well i'd appreciate that if that isn't you know if 829 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,940 we could stick that in somewhere i think that would be interesting just that way we know 830 01:16:49,940 --> 01:16:59,080 whenever we're developing whatever path we take we know that it continues to be safe 831 01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:05,760 thank you hey hailey can i ask a question you mentioned i think i heard this right um 832 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:10,280 some of the data you got from the cost to plug a well is from the orphaned well program 833 01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:15,400 like is there there it seems like there's some sort of funding for the state to find 834 01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:21,800 orphaned wells and proactively plug them am i understanding that that exists correct so 835 01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,560 it's a a program the railroad commission has i'm not sure what the source of the funding 836 01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:32,280 is but they do each year go out and and wells that they know have have been orphaned there's 837 01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,200 no contact for the operator the operator's gone out of business um whatever the case 838 01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:41,520 may be they do have funding to to then use that to go in and make sure that those wells 839 01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:46,680 are are plugged correctly um but it is a state program i don't believe it that funding would 840 01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:52,600 be available for for any private use um well i was i mean obviously it's it's not probably 841 01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,960 for this commission's uh conversation but if there's an interest in the state of texas 842 01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:03,120 to plug wells that aren't being used then maybe there would be some sort of um cooperation 843 01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:08,560 between private use and whatever funding exists at the state level for orphaned wells to help 844 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:14,680 pay for the plug-in if a developer could petition the state to say you and i are aligned to get 845 01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:20,080 this plugged instead of it leaving it here i just don't know if there's another if there's 846 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:28,880 better financial mechanisms to to um for for developers that aren't our responsibility 847 01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:33,440 if we can't touch below ground and the state can then it seems like this should developer 848 01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:39,120 should go ask the state for money yeah i'm not sure if that's a possibility but i can 849 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:50,160 i can try to find out uh just my two cents any other questions for hayley on this topic 850 01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,600 commissioner alice thank you chair you know what i don't really have a question i just 851 01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:57,120 wanted to thank hayley i know you put a lot of work into this so thank you very much it 852 01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:01,880 was great great information yeah and i think you got pretty good direction i'm i'm certainly 853 01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:06,160 on board with the incentive is you get to build on more land when you plug the well 854 01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:10,600 so that that's that's a good incentive and then i guess i would just offer my two cents 855 01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:15,680 about um the radius that you talked about um and that's seeing if if you don't need 856 01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:21,760 it all the way around maybe look into if if it does have have to be accessed because the 857 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:26,280 plug fails i mean maybe you do need a radius you know i don't know if it was all just on 858 01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:30,080 one side if that would give them enough you know whatever would have to come in there 859 01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:34,760 again um but anyway just food for thought um when you're researching that yeah that 860 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:41,560 sounds like you can too thank you yeah thank you very much for your work any other questions 861 01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:48,040 okay hey like commissioner alice said thank you for the hard work i know you've done this 862 01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:52,440 presentation a couple times now so uh thank you for uh presenting it to us yep thank 863 01:19:52,440 --> 01:20:00,360 you uh moving on with our agenda the uh we get into uh the actual meat of the agenda 864 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,060 it looks like we have some postponements but uh richard is there any other clarification 865 01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:09,720 of the agenda that we need to be aware of no the the only thing i'll add is the items 866 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:13,760 that are being postponed the public hearings we would looking forward to open those public 867 01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:20,480 hearings um and then continue them or or postpone to a date certain uh great and these are all 868 01:20:20,480 --> 01:20:26,320 three of them the staff is recommending these postpone they're not applicant recommendations 869 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:31,320 these are staff requested okay so open public hearing and uh take a motion commissioner 870 01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:37,880 beck thank you chair and richard i asked you about this on email but but just for the commission's 871 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:42,440 sake we are notifying everyone that made a comment because we received a number of comments 872 01:20:42,440 --> 01:20:48,520 correct so yeah so any any comments that we would have received uh via um the online form 873 01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:54,240 i think that you get copied on um through through the email in addition any direct emails 874 01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:59,920 that we get um we usually keep a a spreadsheet of any contact that we've had um or anyone 875 01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:06,280 that that's submitted comments or folks that uh when we sent the the mail notice uh requirement 876 01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:12,400 under um 211 if we have those contacts then we would we would either email them call them 877 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:19,300 whatever whatever whatever whatever they provided us we would we would reach back out um so 878 01:21:19,300 --> 01:21:26,720 yes that will happen that's awesome thank you so much so uh we'll start with item two 879 01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:35,800 minutes is there any um feedback or edits that need to be made to the minutes okay seeing 880 01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:41,440 done we'll go to item 3a it's our one item for individual consideration uh surprise it's 881 01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:48,440 hailey uh it's 3a pp 20-0021 882 01:21:48,440 --> 01:22:03,880 all right just one second let me get this pulled up we thought we'd give julia break 883 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:09,120 and turn it now into the hailey show yeah all all night so all we got is hailey tonight 884 01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:31,560 all right yeah so just briefly uh this is a preliminary plat for the woodlands on mckinney 885 01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:36,440 street so you can see the property location here uh this is ryan high school for reference 886 01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:41,800 uh this is trinity boulevard here on the um the east side of the property um staff is 887 01:22:41,800 --> 01:22:46,080 recommending denial of this request as it doesn't yet meet all of the established requirements 888 01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:51,960 of the code um those were all outlined in exhibit two of your backup um however the 889 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:57,160 applicant has requested an extension to the november 18th uh meeting and staff has no 890 01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:02,320 objection to that i'm happy to answer any questions you all may have on the plat chris 891 01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:08,800 sir beck thank you chair hailey in general um i'm i'm not familiar with the the levels 892 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:15,440 of infrastructure that we have to service that area do we have i mean if if there was 893 01:23:15,440 --> 01:23:19,320 a development anywhere close to this kind of development do we have sufficient infrastructure 894 01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:25,760 generally to connect in and support that in terms of utilities um i as far as i know yes 895 01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:32,400 we do they'll be tying in on mckinney and trinity for um water and sewer um this site um does have a 896 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:38,160 bit of history that some of you may not be familiar with it came through um i believe it was a year 897 01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:42,960 and a half two years ago now for a specific use permit to permit uh the the manufactured housing 898 01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:48,400 development there were some very specific conditions tied to that sup for mobility improvements 899 01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:53,120 so they will be dedicating right away for the future post oak boulevard that will come through 900 01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:58,160 this area according to our mobility plan but more specifically they'll be making improvements on 901 01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:04,800 mckinney um so there are left turn lanes required as part of the sup to to get access into the site 902 01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:09,840 here and there are sidewalk improvements required to ensure that future residents here can safely 903 01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:15,200 get to the high school specifically so those those improvements are required of them but in 904 01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:22,240 terms of utilities yes there there is capacity to serve awesome thank you any other commissioner 905 01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:29,280 pranetta um yeah and just this was the property where there was a big concern about a bottleneck 906 01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:35,840 bridge like right by that right is it is am i thinking of the same one yes i believe so um 907 01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:40,000 richard feel free to jump in if i'm speaking incorrectly but i believe it was up here at mills 908 01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:46,080 and trinity um it was where there was concern um so i believe also as part of the sup that there 909 01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,840 was some funding required to help with improvements on trinity boulevard as well 910 01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:56,400 correct even further up actually on in um that lakeview states i can't think of the 911 01:24:56,400 --> 01:25:01,680 name of the neighborhood um but on lakeview itself there were some traffic calming measures 912 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:07,040 that they were required to put in place or at least fund i should say um as part of that sup 913 01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,240 okay thank you i remember completely now it was the bridge was washed out okay 914 01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:23,280 christopher was this the development that led to our 2 a.m meeting yeah i believe it was 915 01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:31,920 uh we all remember that night uh any other questions 916 01:25:31,920 --> 01:25:41,440 great uh so that moves us into the public hearing uh 4a is uh being postponed uh 4c 917 01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:46,400 and 4d are also being requested to be postponed uh like richard just said we'll open the public 918 01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:51,040 hearing and uh take a vote uh so the only public hearing that we need a presentation on this 919 01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:58,560 evening since we'll hear the other ones at a future date is item 4b pd 20-0006 and this is 920 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:05,920 hayley zugerski's item chair if i can just clarify uh for yes for item 4a we will not need to open 921 01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:11,360 that um since we will be bringing that at because it is a date i'm certain we'll just we won't need 922 01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:25,280 to open that thank you all right so this item is a planned development for texas health resources 923 01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:31,600 you can see the location here on the map so this includes the the main hospital campus as well as 924 01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:36,160 an adjacent lot with several medical office buildings that is owned by the the hospital 925 01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:42,160 entity currently it's all zoned mix use regional or mr district and they are looking to rezone 926 01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:48,080 the entire 38 acres to plan development and just for reference this is scripture street on the 927 01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:53,040 north oak is to the south of the property and we have bonnie bray here on the east and i-35 bounding 928 01:26:53,040 --> 01:27:00,000 it on the west this is just a look at our current and proposed zoning map so again all mr today and 929 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:04,480 they would be looking to to make all of this a planned development still relying on that mr 930 01:27:04,480 --> 01:27:11,920 is the base district so this is a little unique compared to pd's where we normally see kind of a 931 01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:17,680 blank slate with new development in this instance the site is fully developed today so what you see 932 01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:23,040 here on the map the green is all the landscape area that exists on the site today the existing 933 01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:27,680 hospital i wanted to point out this area in blue that you see on their plans labeled as current 934 01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:33,280 expansion they do have plans approved to add a new tower to the hospital this would be i believe a 935 01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:40,080 women's women's care facility so that project will be getting underway very soon the improvements 936 01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:45,040 associated with this there was a pretty even balance between what they were removing in terms 937 01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:47,920 of parking and what they would need to add back so it was kind of a wash there was no 938 01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,680 net effect there on site that's how they were able to move forward with this 939 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:58,080 and then the area in orange i wanted to point out this is a building there's an existing building 940 01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:04,000 there today rather that will be demolished and then a new medical office building or medical 941 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:08,320 clinic will be established there in the near future that's a plan again that's already improved 942 01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:13,520 so they show it as a current redevelopment on their site plan so with the adoption of the 943 01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:20,320 2019 ddc there were some changes in the code to parking specifically for hospitals that that 944 01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:24,960 negatively affected this site and then the changes to our landscaping as well those combined to 945 01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:29,760 create some some non-conformities on this site that would make it very challenging for them to 946 01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:34,880 develop in the future since the site based on our current ratios would be vastly over parked 947 01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:40,640 they wouldn't be able to expand parking and the hospital staff sees parking at a deficit already 948 01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:44,880 with people having difficulty when they visit finding a place to park there so they know in 949 01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,800 the future they're going to want to add more parking so this pd is intended to set the stage 950 01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:55,680 for that future expansion and redevelopment of this campus once the pd is established 951 01:28:55,680 --> 01:29:00,960 any changes to it changes to the site rather will either fall within the category of a minor pd 952 01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:05,680 amendment or a major generally speaking major would be if they were to add a building that would 953 01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:10,320 increase the square footage of the existing building by 10 percent or more that would trigger 954 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:14,320 major so you would see those changes come back to you to update these plans as they go along 955 01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:25,760 christopher smith oh lost him oh there he is hit the wrong button uh hailey would uh would that be 956 01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:31,360 like a um what parking garage be included within that is that made that's i don't know if parking 957 01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:35,520 garages are counted in full square footage of the building or not yes i believe that would be a 958 01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:41,200 significant enough change to to trigger um a major amendment um but it would ultimately depend on the 959 01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:45,200 the scope of what they're proposing each time they come in to make changes but something that large 960 01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:53,200 i would expect would fall into the category of major okay thank you um so the the pd standards 961 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:58,000 document um if you look through that you'll see it did propose some restrictions to the uses that 962 01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:02,640 are permitted with mr mr is one of our more permissive commercial districts um so with this 963 01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:06,960 pd they're narrowing the scope of that to to ensure that this site remains a hospital campus 964 01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:13,200 so this is the list of uses that they're proposing have permitted some of these you'll see are are 965 01:30:13,200 --> 01:30:18,080 more specific than what the code has we group medical uses into either hospital medical clinic 966 01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:23,200 or medical office they wanted to specify that some of these were specific things that they expect to 967 01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:29,040 have on site such as ambulatory or outpatient care facilities rehab facilities and senior care 968 01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:34,000 facilities so they've proposed new definitions that would be specific to this pd and then they 969 01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,960 also had a list of accessory uses that that are typically seen with a hospital that includes the 970 01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:47,280 helipad parking garages as well as storage and laundry facilities on site and then some of the 971 01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:52,320 other key changes that they're making with this pd relate primarily again to landscaping and parking 972 01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:58,320 so with respect to landscaping they did they are they are seeking to have some of the specific 973 01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:02,880 requirements for right-of-way screening and internal parking lot landscaping waves so that 974 01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:08,240 they can maintain their existing parking lots as they are the overall landscape area and tree 975 01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:14,400 canopy requirements would be the same as mr so 25 and 30 respectively but this again would allow 976 01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:19,760 that large existing parking lot to remain in its current state without them needing to go back and 977 01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:25,280 take up spaces to add internal landscape islands at the ratios that the code now requires but the 978 01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:31,440 the landscaping requirements the code would apply for new parking lots parking is one of the critical 979 01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:36,720 elements that they're they're looking to update here so our hospital services category requires 980 01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:42,320 one space for three patient beds as the the code standard for a minimum our code does allow you to 981 01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:48,320 go up to 125 of that as a maximum but it still doesn't get this hospital where it needs to be 982 01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:54,000 what they see as a reasonable ratio for themselves is a maximum of five spaces per one patient bed so 983 01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:58,320 they could go lower than that but five would be the maximum that they would intend to provide per 984 01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:04,800 patient and then for medical clinics and medical offices they're looking to change those from our 985 01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:10,560 ratio of 1 to 250 for clinics and 1 to 450 for offices to be one space per 200 square feet for 986 01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:16,320 each of those so this is just how that compares again a pretty significant increase for the 987 01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:24,000 hospital ratio and then a fairly minor increase related to medical clinics and offices with respect 988 01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:30,000 to our front parking design standards the code again is is very specific geared more towards 989 01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:34,640 standard commercial development like you might see at the mall when you have over 100 spaces 990 01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:39,600 in front of a building the code requires pad sites be left for development at the primary entrances 991 01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:44,480 and intersections so we would expect that with commercial development doesn't necessarily fit 992 01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:48,640 for a hospital campus so they're looking to waive that standard to ensure again that they can keep 993 01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:55,120 their large existing parking lot in its current state bicycle parking the code requires one space 994 01:32:55,120 --> 01:33:00,400 per 200 vehicles again that's not necessarily something that you would expect to see at a 995 01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:05,440 hospital they do intend to provide some bike parking but they're looking to decrease the 996 01:33:05,440 --> 01:33:11,200 amount and have that at one space per 100 vehicle spaces and then they've introduced some new 997 01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:16,080 standards specific to a parking structure because they do intend to eventually develop one of those 998 01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:20,800 on site so they wanted to set some standards for themselves to state that that would be no more 999 01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:25,680 than five levels and then it wouldn't be located along i-35 or in front of the main hospital so it 1000 01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:30,400 would have to be kind of on that eastern side of the campus more towards bonnie brayer scripture 1001 01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:38,800 most likely so as you've seen before we do have the general criteria applicable to all applications 1002 01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:43,920 these were all outlined in your backup but just briefly it is consistent with our ddc 1003 01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:48,720 standards they're not proposing any phasing at this time they'll be coming back 1004 01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:52,960 to amend this as they as they make their path forward for the hospital campus and future 1005 01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:58,480 redevelopment we would not expect since this is an established campus that there would be any 1006 01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:03,520 significant adverse impacts with them expanding or redesigning and there is infrastructure in 1007 01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:09,440 place today to serve the development we'll go through each of the six pd criteria briefly 1008 01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:15,040 so the first being compliance with our comprehensive plan this site is designated 1009 01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:21,760 on our future land use map as regional mixed use this designation was applied at our major 1010 01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:26,960 intersections along the highways where we have these arterials intersecting them and have high 1011 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:31,440 accessibility that we expect to be able to support a regional draw so you see here on the map this 1012 01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:37,440 includes the razor ranch area as well as the hospital specifically this designation in our 1013 01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:42,080 comp plan does note that major medical facilities are appropriate in these regional mixed use areas 1014 01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:47,200 because denton does serve a wider area so again with this being an existing development consistent 1015 01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:52,480 with that designation we saw that the permitting the future expansion of this site would be within 1016 01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:57,680 what the comp plan seems has deemed consistent and appropriate for this area 1017 01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:05,280 criterion two is compliance with the ddc so as you could see in their standards they are proposing 1018 01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:09,760 to follow the ddc in every way except for those specific deviations related to parking and 1019 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:16,320 landscaping and those are intended primarily just to allow them to continue to grow and expand this 1020 01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:21,360 hospital campus to meet the needs of the city so we saw no concerns there with respect to compliance 1021 01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:28,160 with the ddc the third criteria is looking at whether there's a greater building design amenities 1022 01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:34,000 or connectivity proposed again this is unique with it being a fully developed site their new 1023 01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:38,000 development would follow the building design standards of the code other than what they've 1024 01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:43,040 called out for landscaping they would meet still the overall landscaping and tree canopy requirements 1025 01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:48,560 of the code and the only modifications would be again to facilitate the redevelopment of some of 1026 01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:55,360 this area and allowing them to expand parking to meet their needs criterion four is not applicable 1027 01:35:55,360 --> 01:36:01,200 as there's no residential development as part of the pd and then criterion five speaks to whether 1028 01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:07,360 a non the non-residential uses are appropriate in terms of location again given the highly 1029 01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:13,520 accessible location of this it's kind of ideal for a hospital campus so there would generally be no 1030 01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,360 issues with this use expanding on that site as it already has well-established access 1031 01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:22,960 off of i-35 and oak which is a primary arterial and then bonnie bray as a secondary arterial 1032 01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:28,320 future expansion of this site would be appropriate given that prominent location and again 1033 01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,840 any of those major changes they make would come back before the pnz and council 1034 01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:40,080 and then the sixth criteria is with respect to the provision of public facilities to support 1035 01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:44,880 the development again being fully developed you can see here on the map with the blue lines being 1036 01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:49,840 water red being sewer they have adequate utilities to serve the development and then they did provide 1037 01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:55,120 a mobility exhibit that shows their their access points you can see here they have adequate access 1038 01:36:55,120 --> 01:37:01,200 off of both the frontage road as well as oak and scripture to the north and south and then they do 1039 01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:06,560 share access with the adjacent development here to have access points along bonnie bray as well 1040 01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:14,000 public outreach was done according to our standard so we sent the 200 foot and 500 1041 01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:20,240 foot notifications we've received no responses given the the nature of this area they did not 1042 01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:24,560 hold a neighborhood meeting but we've received no negative feedback regarding this development 1043 01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:30,000 staff is recommending approval of the request as we found it to meet all of our criteria 1044 01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:33,760 and once it gets through pnz its next stop will be city council on november 10th 1045 01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:39,440 and i'm happy to answer any questions uh commissioner smith thank you chair so hailey 1046 01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:44,560 you said that the most reasonable place for them to put a parking garage then if this was changed 1047 01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:50,320 would be on the east side of the property um along bonnie bray can you go to the quick site map there 1048 01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:54,880 and kind of show the property and what the property boundaries would be around that area 1049 01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,720 and then as you're doing that you can so 1050 01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:10,160 bonnie bray's expansion can you remind me our primary arterial i think and then 1051 01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:19,280 where we are right now in that expansion sure so looking at their site here since they they added 1052 01:38:19,280 --> 01:38:24,480 standards that would say they cannot add a parking garage in this area they said they restricted 1053 01:38:24,480 --> 01:38:29,600 themselves from putting it along 35 or in front of the hospital itself so really given kind of 1054 01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:35,200 the unique configuration of their site that would leave them assuming this this existing 1055 01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:39,440 redevelopment wouldn't go away here on this parcel would leave them this general area 1056 01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:45,200 this existing women's center is what's being relocated to this tower so to my knowledge 1057 01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:49,120 they haven't identified a use for this but this this is an example of an area they've indicated 1058 01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:54,800 they would be looking to redevelop and find a new use for um but based on their standards here or 1059 01:38:54,800 --> 01:39:01,120 here would be the most logical locations okay and then uh on north bonnie bray um it's a primary 1060 01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:07,680 arterial correct um if i'm remembering the mobility plan correctly is a secondary arterial um 1061 01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:13,840 but in terms of the bonnie bray project uh the roundabout scripture was recently complete and 1062 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:18,880 i don't recall the dates but i think last time i saw this um the portion adjacent to razor ranch 1063 01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:25,120 was generally slated for 2021 2022 completion um on the north end but this area has largely 1064 01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:30,080 been completed with that scripture roundabout that was prioritized and look i know i know 1065 01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:36,320 just for all commissioners sake another word this is a this is a a zoning case it's not a 1066 01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:45,200 we're not approving a you know a parking garage but going up 1500 in parking space from currently 1067 01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:52,320 zoned allowances is quite an increase and there's no way they have the space to put you know to build 1068 01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:59,840 15 000 or 15 1500 more parking spaces and they currently have now on flat level ground without 1069 01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:04,960 building a parking garage so hayley really my my last question would be if it's there's a parking 1070 01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:09,760 garage there is there when a construction like that occurs whenever there's a major i think you 1071 01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:17,040 called it a major pd amendment that comes through is there any tia now tia stuff that goes through 1072 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:22,400 whenever those types of projects come before us again um so there there could be for the the 1073 01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:27,840 current hospital expansion for example um they were they were able to document that the because 1074 01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:32,400 they're offsetting an existing use but and just relocating it essentially there was no net increase 1075 01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:39,840 in trips so if they were to propose you know a new facility of some sort on site if they if that 1076 01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:44,240 initial analysis and trip generation showed that there would be a significant increase then a tia 1077 01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:48,240 would be required for that but it would be looked at on a case-by-case basis depending on what 1078 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:52,880 they're adding so if they're demolished the existing women's center and build a parking garage 1079 01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:59,440 there it would probably kick off a tia um i don't know that a parking garage itself would if that was 1080 01:40:59,440 --> 01:41:04,960 the only use because the the parking garage wouldn't be inherently driving traffic to the site 1081 01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:10,960 necessarily um if they were adding say new medical office buildings or adding a new tower to the 1082 01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:18,160 hospital those would likely trigger the tia um the parking garage um probably wouldn't and it might 1083 01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:22,800 be seen as kind of alleviating some of the traffic that they report currently circles the site looking 1084 01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:27,920 for for parking during the day actually so yeah but you know if you got a parking garage just over 1085 01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:33,040 there that is no one's i mean people are entering the hospital hospital campus from body brain now 1086 01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:38,640 yes uh but the majority of that parking is along 35 and the majority of that parking is coming in 1087 01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:43,760 off of what is that west oak down or not west oak uh yeah west oak down there and off of 1088 01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:49,520 35 frontage road so if you're everyone's parking on the east side of the property you're going to 1089 01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:55,360 be driving everyone to be pulling in off of body braid more than likely so i don't know that the 1090 01:41:55,360 --> 01:42:00,240 fact that just the ability to then build a parking garage of course with the pd major amendment 1091 01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:05,120 but not having a tia that comes along with it that's a little scary for me so 1092 01:42:05,120 --> 01:42:09,760 okay thank you it could be a requirement um again our engineering team would just have to look at 1093 01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:14,080 that and see if they have any concerns with with potential rerouting of traffic or anything of that 1094 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:18,800 nature could we can we can we somehow make that a requirement by passing the zoning 1095 01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:27,360 um richard what are your thoughts on that no yeah i think the only difficulty again is 1096 01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:33,200 looking at it the the generator would be the bit the number of beds that that that they're adding 1097 01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:39,280 so if that's the case then then yes um it would be required but if they're not adding beds i don't 1098 01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:45,760 know that they would go through again the expense to build that larger parking garage but um if they 1099 01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:53,120 were adding again measurable square footage or converting uh an area um that was adding new beds 1100 01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:57,600 of course that would be something we'd be able to to see when that if they if and when they did come 1101 01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:02,800 in for the parking garage um to be able to ask those questions and and look at requiring that 1102 01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:09,280 well i mean if this i mean i mean we're only one thing is just addressing the elephant right here 1103 01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:15,520 that there this is a this is a rezone to be able to get themselves ready for a some sort of parking 1104 01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:21,360 reconfiguration i mean moving the existing the existing women's facility to where it is on the 1105 01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:26,240 on the site plan what hailey just showed us if there i don't know how many beds are actually 1106 01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:32,640 increasing it by to that new place but it's not enough to warrant a 1500 increase in parking 1107 01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:38,320 spaces and so there's obviously plans and works and i'm sure the applicant's going to be on and 1108 01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:43,520 we'll love to hear from them later on but i mean this you know you don't you know you're not 1109 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:49,520 expanding the hospital by that much to require this much it's not proportional so um okay thank 1110 01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:54,640 you well and i before we uh move on i just wanted to point out part of the i think the driver for 1111 01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:59,680 that ratio they used is because the site is substantially over parked by our standard today 1112 01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:05,040 so a part of that would just be kind of bringing their current parking into conformance um 1113 01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:12,880 so you they would increase parking on the site by that much um a part of that number would be 1114 01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:18,320 taken up by the existing parking on site today which is significantly more than what the code 1115 01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:24,240 allows that the one per three patient bed ratio okay i mean are they i mean are they at where are 1116 01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:30,400 they towards that maximum now of a one per three bed i mean are they are they are they currently 1117 01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:35,040 do they currently have less than the maximum more than the maximum and non-conforming 1118 01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:42,000 i think that's a minimum three per one bed is a minimum correct is it um the current requirement 1119 01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:47,120 is is one space per three beds that's the minimum you can only go up to 125 percent of that without 1120 01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:53,600 making your parking pervious yeah um so the ratio that they're at um i was trying to pull up the 1121 01:44:53,600 --> 01:45:00,400 plan i believe it works out to where the one or i'm sorry five spaces per patient bed is pretty 1122 01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:05,120 equivalent to what they have on site today actually um so that would apply to new moving forward 1123 01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:09,760 they could add at that ratio but again the way they've written it that would be the maximum they 1124 01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:15,120 could add they don't necessarily have to add that much um okay could you maybe could you maybe report 1125 01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:21,440 that in uh in meeting of what their current ratio is right now that they're their minimum their 1126 01:45:21,440 --> 01:45:27,440 minimum the minimum is obviously one per per three beds but their current parking right now is 1127 01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:34,800 what the ratio is per bed right now i'd like to see that number you can do that 13 minutes from now 1128 01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:45,440 i think commissioner beck is second in line thank you chair um my my questions are very similar 1129 01:45:45,440 --> 01:45:55,280 the existing zoning uh precludes them building any parking garage right now uh it's this hypothetical 1130 01:45:55,280 --> 01:46:02,160 on the old women's center um so the code does not necessarily prohibit parking garages it's fairly 1131 01:46:02,160 --> 01:46:06,880 silent on them actually um but they are they are permitted and parking within a structure as the 1132 01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:12,560 code is is written today doesn't count against you it doesn't count against that maximum um so 1133 01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:18,400 they they could add a parking garage on site today um what they couldn't do is expand the surface 1134 01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:26,560 parking um because they're already over parked so so if they if they tore down the women's center 1135 01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:30,240 because they have the new women's center coming in and they put a parking garage as commissioner 1136 01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:36,160 smith was suggesting and i i think we all agree that it's probably got to go there right uh then 1137 01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:42,320 there's nothing about the zoning that precludes them from doing that so i guess then my question 1138 01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:48,240 is i'm a little confused why we need to rezone if they can already do if they can already expand the 1139 01:46:48,240 --> 01:46:54,400 parking so i my understanding of parking garage is just an option that they are considering um 1140 01:46:54,400 --> 01:47:00,080 again the hospital campus is is rapidly growing and they don't necessarily know where they'll need 1141 01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:06,160 to be five ten years from now so this is just building that toolkit for them to be able to to 1142 01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:10,640 have the flexibility to redevelop the site as they need to in the future they've not expressed to 1143 01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:15,280 city staff that yes 100 we are going to do a parking garage they just wanted to ensure that 1144 01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:18,640 they have the option to do that and set some standards for what that could look like 1145 01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:25,280 that's not to say they wouldn't do it the the challenge they've run into um thus far is for 1146 01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:30,240 example with the women's tower the city's initial response to them was sorry you can't do it you're 1147 01:47:30,240 --> 01:47:35,040 already over parked so they went through some pretty significant analysis to show us that 1148 01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:39,120 what they were adding with that new women's tower would actually decrease the parking on site 1149 01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:43,680 slightly and not increase the degree of non-conformity so this is just to avoid them having to go through 1150 01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:49,200 that hurdle each time and and get to a point where we have to say you stop you can't add any more 1151 01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:54,640 physical you know on the ground parking spaces on site um but that's what's setting the stage for that 1152 01:47:55,360 --> 01:48:00,320 but that's for surface parking right so they if i mean if their only option was to make a parking 1153 01:48:00,320 --> 01:48:08,320 garage they could under the existing zoning build a parking garage yes if i'm remembering the code 1154 01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:12,240 correctly we don't see parking garages that often i believe the way the code is worded is that 1155 01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:16,560 parking within a structure doesn't count against your maximum so it still counts towards the 1156 01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:22,400 minimum you're required to have but if you go over and beyond that it wouldn't um since they're 1157 01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:27,440 already non-conforming to parking um that is something i think we'd have to talk through 1158 01:48:27,440 --> 01:48:32,400 maybe consult with our our city attorney's office on because that is a tricky situation 1159 01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:38,480 um but in general if they were conforming and this was a you know any other site in the city 1160 01:48:38,480 --> 01:48:42,480 a parking garage wouldn't count against your maximum parking okay thank you 1161 01:48:45,040 --> 01:48:52,640 commissioner alice thank you chair um hayley do we have any development standards for parking 1162 01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:58,720 garages no the the only thing in the code is that is that statement essentially that it doesn't 1163 01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:03,520 count against your maximum um we don't have design standards for those so that is one advantage of 1164 01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:07,920 this pd is that they've they've set those ground rules that would prohibit a parking garage from 1165 01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:12,560 appearing in in front of the hospital where they have the large parking lot today okay and they're 1166 01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:19,280 requesting it to be no more than five levels is that what correct you said and how tall of a 1167 01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:28,560 structure is that anybody know that roughly i'm guessing less than 50 because i think i think 1168 01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:36,560 those plates within a parking garage are typically seven seven feet maybe okay it might be taller on 1169 01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:42,240 the ground floor depending what what services you have in there but i would say definitely not above 1170 01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:48,400 50 feet and if they do decide to build that they don't have to come do they have to come before 1171 01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:58,080 you as to where and and or can they effectively just build the parking garage under today without 1172 01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:04,240 the pd they or under under this well with yeah with the pd with the pd i believe it would just 1173 01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:10,480 be limited to the to the area that hayley indicated where it couldn't be it couldn't be um along along 1174 01:50:10,480 --> 01:50:17,120 i-35 okay and i guess my concern is that you know we have residential property on bonnie bray 1175 01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:25,680 towards where you're saying most likely a parking garage would go so that's my concern um just in 1176 01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:33,760 how tall in front of it in front of these homes would would this structure be um because that's 1177 01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:39,600 where you know it looks like now where there's just existing parking lot and then that women's 1178 01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:45,280 center um i guess it just depends where they would put it but that would be where my concern would 1179 01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:51,040 lie where would be what we're putting in front of these houses that are there that where there 1180 01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:57,440 currently is not a large structure yeah so once the pd is established anything they change would 1181 01:50:57,440 --> 01:51:01,840 either be a minor or major amendment the code has some some criteria for what falls into the major 1182 01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:05,360 amendment category those are the things that would come back before you and city council 1183 01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:11,040 so again depending on what they're proposing at the time this would most likely come back before 1184 01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:16,800 you all if it's a major change to the site um but even even if it were a minor amendment that 1185 01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:20,720 staff could review there there are criteria in the code for if you're within so many feet of 1186 01:51:20,720 --> 01:51:26,160 residential um you know height limitations stair stepping uh buildings and things such as that that 1187 01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:32,000 could apply depending on where they were proposing to put it okay okay and that was my kind of where 1188 01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:37,760 i was going with my initial question so there would be possibly some measures that we could take to 1189 01:51:37,760 --> 01:51:45,120 ensure that possibly um it trying to think the width of bonnie bray may already exceed the 1190 01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:50,320 separation for that true um but okay all right let me think on that thank you 1191 01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:58,640 uh kisser smith nature hailey there's it says online there are 255 bed hospital now 1192 01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:07,920 so five spaces 1275 spaces so do you know if you there's any space number that you can remember 1193 01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:12,160 off the top of your head and how many spaces they have currently i couldn't find anything quickly in 1194 01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:17,520 the staff analysis i didn't when i was talking when i was emailing you back and forth about this 1195 01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:21,440 earlier this week i i didn't take into consideration the amount of spaces they had currently and where 1196 01:52:21,440 --> 01:52:28,240 that was so yeah let me um i'll see if i have that data with the tower expansion that they recently 1197 01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:38,000 did um it it should be in there okay all right appreciate it any other questions for hailey 1198 01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:41,760 commissioner prunette i don't know if i saw your hand a while ago or not okay i don't want to miss 1199 01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:53,200 you and hailey just in preparation um to kind of commissioner ellis's point in terms of the 1200 01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:58,480 residents across the street there's medical building six on bonnie bray that looks to be 1201 01:52:58,480 --> 01:53:05,120 about 50 feet right there and then the the property that is in question is set back 1202 01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:12,640 more west than that kind of imposing building already um so i'm just wondering if you know the 1203 01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:21,680 height of that building that's actually on bonnie bray there's a way to find out i don't i can try 1204 01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:27,280 to find out before um yeah i'm looking at just a google street view and it looks every bit of 40 1205 01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:32,800 feet but um i'm not i'm not sure yeah just i believe there are some forestry buildings over 1206 01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:37,280 there which would be roughly 40 feet um yeah i can see if i can find out more specifically 1207 01:53:37,280 --> 01:53:42,480 yeah okay any other questions for hailey on this item 1208 01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:53,600 great uh thank you hailey for owning the agenda tonight uh without any opposition or is everyone 1209 01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:59,520 ready to just go at 6 30 we have two items to get through this evening so i don't know how hungry 1210 01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:06,320 everyone is but i'd be kind of um inclined just to get this at 6 30 and get it going 1211 01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:17,920 okay i'm going to see that in agreement so what what mr col a pit stop that's right uh so let's 1212 01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:22,960 take five minutes at 6 26 i'll close the work session we'll get back just after 6 30 and we'll 1213 01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:34,400 do the um normal meeting thank you good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the planning 1214 01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:40,560 and zoning meeting for wednesday october 21st 2020 seeing that we do have a quorum i will call 1215 01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:46,160 this meeting to order at 6 33 the first item of business is to provide a pledge of allegiance to 1216 01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:53,520 the u.s and texas flag the commissioners can unmute them if they'd like to join along with me to to do 1217 01:54:53,520 --> 01:55:04,400 this i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america to the republic for which it 1218 01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:14,720 stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the texas flag 1219 01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:24,160 i pledge allegiance to the texas one state under god one indivisible next item of business is the 1220 01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:31,680 consideration of our minutes from october 7th chair will commissioner ellis i move approval 1221 01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:37,200 we have a first commissioner smith second we have a first and a second for approval any discussion 1222 01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:46,000 on the item seeing nine i'll call for a vote via roll call christopher cole aye christopher smith 1223 01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:54,400 aye christopher prunetta aye christopher anderson aye christopher beck aye christopher ellis 1224 01:55:54,400 --> 01:56:01,600 aye chair is also an aye motion carries seven zero the next item of business is item 3a 1225 01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:08,560 our items for individual consideration this item is pp 20-0021 and i'll invite hailey zygurski for 1226 01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:25,760 presentation all right good evening this is item pp 2021 this is the woodlands on mckinney street 1227 01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:30,880 which is a manufactured housing development you can see here it's located with mckinney street 1228 01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:36,560 on the south side and trinity boulevard on the east side staff is recommending denial of this 1229 01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:40,800 plan at this time as it doesn't meet the established requirements all of those were 1230 01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:45,680 outlined in exhibit two in the backup however the applicant has requested an extension to 1231 01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:50,800 the november 18th planning and zoning commission meeting to have time to work through those 1232 01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:55,120 requirements and staff has no objection to that and i'm happy to stand for any questions 1233 01:56:56,480 --> 01:57:04,000 great thank you for the presentation the chair will entertain discussion or motion 1234 01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:10,000 commissioner smith make a motion to uh postman or to uh yeah approve the extension until date 1235 01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:16,880 certain number 18 20 we have a first for approval and extension to a date certain of number 18th 1236 01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:26,000 commissioner beck i'll second that we have a first and a second for an approval of the 1237 01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:32,960 request for an extension to date certain of november 18th any discussion seen none i'll call 1238 01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:40,160 for a vote via roll call commissioner cole aye commissioner smith aye commissioner pernetta 1239 01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:49,200 aye commissioner anderson aye commissioner beck aye commissioner ellis aye chair is also an aye 1240 01:57:49,200 --> 01:57:54,320 motion carries seven zero the next item of business is our public hearing items the first 1241 01:57:54,320 --> 01:58:03,040 one is item 4a dca 20-0001e staff is requesting that this item gets postponed to a date certain 1242 01:58:03,040 --> 01:58:11,760 so the chair will request a motion to that end commissioner smith make a motion to um 1243 01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:17,680 postpone until date uncertain correct correct commissioner pernetta i'll second the motion 1244 01:58:17,680 --> 01:58:22,800 we have a first and a second to postpone this item to a date uncertain any discussion 1245 01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:28,320 seen none i'll call for a vote via roll call commissioner cole yeah 1246 01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:36,960 commissioner smith aye commissioner pernetta aye commissioner anderson 1247 01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:45,920 aye commissioner beck aye commissioner ellis aye chairs an aye and just for clarification 1248 01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:54,000 commissioner cole was that a aye or a nay an aye i said yay i'm an aye okay just wanted to verify 1249 01:58:54,000 --> 01:59:01,360 uh motion carries seven zero next item of business is item 4b uh pd 20-0006 1250 01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:06,400 uh and i will call hailey zagorski for presentation and open the public hearing 1251 01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:22,560 all right good evening this is item pd 26 for texas health resources 1252 01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:30,160 so the request before you is a rezoning for 38 acres it's currently zoned mr and they are 1253 01:59:30,160 --> 01:59:35,040 seeking a rezoning to pd the base zoning district would still be mr you can see the property 1254 01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:40,720 outlined in yellow on the map it's bounded by i-35 on the west scripture to the north bonnie bray on 1255 01:59:40,720 --> 01:59:47,520 the east and oak street to the south this is just a look at what our our rezoning map looks like 1256 01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:52,320 today with the current zoning here on the left of mr and this is what it would look like if this 1257 01:59:52,320 --> 02:00:00,960 rezoning to pd were approved so i wanted to first walk through the site this pd is a little unique 1258 02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:06,960 since the campus is already developed today there is the existing hospital as well as medical office 1259 02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:11,360 buildings throughout the site as well as an existing women's health center there are some 1260 02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:16,640 current improvements that are underway the area shaded in blue is what they're calling phase one 1261 02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:22,080 expansion for the hospital which is the new women's tower and then the area that shaded in the orange 1262 02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:27,440 color is a medical office building that is currently under redevelopment the existing building will be 1263 02:00:27,440 --> 02:00:33,360 demolished and a new facility is being built there some of the features on this site such 1264 02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:37,440 as parking and landscaping were rendered non-conforming with our 2019 code update 1265 02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:43,200 during the work session there was a question regarding existing parking on site what i was 1266 02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:51,760 able to find based on the state after this tower is added the site will have 1029 parking spaces 1267 02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:57,440 as it is today just for the hospital campus so the hospital lot generally ends somewhere in 1268 02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:02,000 this area it doesn't include this is a separate lot over here with some of these out parcels the 1269 02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:10,240 hospital itself has 1029 spaces based on the code requirement that we have today of one space per 1270 02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:15,360 three patient beds only 504 spaces would be required so that hopefully gives you an idea 1271 02:01:15,360 --> 02:01:20,240 of where they stand and the degree of non-conformity that was created which would mean that they they 1272 02:01:20,240 --> 02:01:24,240 could never make site improvements that would expand that non-conformity so they couldn't add 1273 02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:30,640 more surface parking to this facility again some of the landscaping features are also non-conforming 1274 02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:35,120 such as the parking lot landscaping some of our requirements for right-of-way screening and things 1275 02:01:35,120 --> 02:01:40,960 such as that so this pd is really just intended to set the stage to allow them to begin redeveloping 1276 02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:45,840 and expanding this campus maintaining some of the features that they have on site today 1277 02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:51,040 but also ensuring that they can can add parking to meet the hospital needs as they move forward 1278 02:01:51,040 --> 02:01:57,920 so they've provided in your backup some standards for the proposed pd as well as 1279 02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:02,880 documents showing existing conditions looking at the standards one of the things you'll notice is 1280 02:02:02,880 --> 02:02:08,720 they are restricting the uses permitted within the mr district so this list here are the only 1281 02:02:08,720 --> 02:02:13,840 uses that would be permitted on the site if the pd were approved so all the typical medical uses 1282 02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:18,320 that you would expect as well as some supporting uses such as daycares and wellness facilities 1283 02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:23,920 as well as recreation they do also permit some accessory uses such as helipads parking garages 1284 02:02:23,920 --> 02:02:30,320 and storage and laundry they're introducing also some new uses these are things that could fit 1285 02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:34,720 within one of the general categories in the code today in terms of medical clinics or offices but 1286 02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:38,720 they wanted to specifically call these out as they are things that they expect to see on site 1287 02:02:39,280 --> 02:02:44,640 and that's an ambulatory or outpatient care facility a wellness or rehab facility and a senior 1288 02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:52,480 care facility and then looking at the specific deviations that they are proposing as part of 1289 02:02:52,480 --> 02:02:57,840 this pd with respect to landscaping the code is fairly specific on the screening that has to occur 1290 02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:02,160 at the right-of-way and how often you have to have landscape islands within a parking lot 1291 02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:08,560 they're proposing to to modify that and the driver behind that is allowing that existing 1292 02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:15,040 large parking lot to remain in its current state but to allow for landscaping to to be more in line 1293 02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:20,480 with the code as they move forward so for for some of the areas where they're they have very limited 1294 02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:24,560 space between the right-of-way and the parking they're proposing to reduce that to one screening 1295 02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:31,200 element instead of two that the code requires and then internal parking lots islands would be applied 1296 02:03:31,200 --> 02:03:40,080 to new parking lots at the same rate as the code for parking ratios this is the perhaps the largest 1297 02:03:40,080 --> 02:03:45,840 change that they're proposing with the pd the hospital services use currently requires one 1298 02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:51,360 space per three patient beds they're looking at a maximum of five spaces per one patient bed as 1299 02:03:51,360 --> 02:03:58,080 their ratio and then medical clinics and offices require one to 250 and one to 450 respectively 1300 02:03:58,080 --> 02:04:03,440 they are proposing a one space to 200 square foot ratio for both of those uses so this would be an 1301 02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:08,640 increase above the code requirement for all of these but as i noted before and we talked about 1302 02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:12,400 at work session some of this is simply to make up for the difference in the over parking that's on 1303 02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:19,280 site today and then allow them room to expand in the future for front parking design standards the 1304 02:04:19,280 --> 02:04:25,120 code requires that for for lots with more than 100 spaces which is what they have at the hospital 1305 02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:31,680 today that there be out parcels provided at primary entrances and at intersections that is 1306 02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:35,360 not something that you would typically see with a hospital so they're looking to waive that requirement 1307 02:04:35,360 --> 02:04:41,200 and allow the existing front parking to remain in its current state bicycle parking the code requires 1308 02:04:41,200 --> 02:04:47,280 it a ratio of one space for 20 vehicles they're looking to to decrease the amount required and 1309 02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:52,000 have one space for 100 vehicles which is something that seems fairly reasonable at a hospital 1310 02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:59,040 and then they're introducing standards for a parking garage as we discussed at the work session 1311 02:04:59,040 --> 02:05:03,840 the ddc allows for parking garages but doesn't provide design standards for those so they are 1312 02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:09,360 providing some limitations on what that parking garage could look like and where it could go 1313 02:05:09,360 --> 02:05:14,560 they would limit it to no more than five levels and then they would limit the location that it 1314 02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:19,360 could be in so that it wouldn't be located along i-35 or in front of the main hospital building 1315 02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:26,400 in terms of our general criteria for approval we found it to be consistent with all of these 1316 02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:32,160 they are consistent with the ddc and always except for the standards that they propose to deviate 1317 02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:37,600 from and as this is an already developed campus we would not expect to see any significant adverse 1318 02:05:37,600 --> 02:05:44,240 environmental or fiscal impacts if they continue to expand and redevelop and then we'll look at 1319 02:05:44,240 --> 02:05:51,280 each of these six criteria for the for the pd in a little more detail the first is compliance with 1320 02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:56,400 the comprehensive plan this area is designated as regional mixed use this is a designation that 1321 02:05:56,400 --> 02:06:01,520 applies along our major highway corridors where we have major intersections and we expect due to the 1322 02:06:01,520 --> 02:06:07,760 accessibility to have uses with a regional draw it is typically applied for higher intensity 1323 02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:12,480 commercial or residential uses but the comp plan does call out specifically that our major medical 1324 02:06:12,480 --> 02:06:18,080 facilities are our uses that fit within this designation so the subject property is already 1325 02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:22,800 developed in accordance with the comp plan in that aspect and this proposed pd would facilitate the 1326 02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:26,320 continued growth of this of this campus to meet the growing needs of the city 1327 02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:33,200 the second criteria is compliance with the ddc again as we looked at with their standards 1328 02:06:33,200 --> 02:06:39,040 they are only proposing to deviate from a select few items related to parking and landscaping to 1329 02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:44,960 facilitate future development of the site and ensure that that they don't continually run into 1330 02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:49,600 the hurdle of their parking being non-conforming as it is today so they are proposing to meet the 1331 02:06:49,600 --> 02:06:56,800 ddc in all aspects except for the deviations that they've specifically requested criterion three is 1332 02:06:56,800 --> 02:07:01,600 with respect to building design amenities and connectivity again the site is already largely 1333 02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:07,040 developed anything that they develop on the campus in terms of building design would have to meet our 1334 02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:11,840 ddc standards as they're not requesting any deviations from that the modifications with 1335 02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:17,520 respect to parking and landscaping would not be expected to have any significant negative effect 1336 02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:21,280 and they're still proposing to meet the minimum landscape and tree canopy requirements 1337 02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:25,040 these modifications would just allow them more flexibility in where that goes on site 1338 02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:30,480 criterion four is for residential uses which we don't have with this pd 1339 02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:36,480 and then criterion five is rather the proposed non-residential uses are appropriate in terms of 1340 02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:42,160 their location again the site is already established it has high accessibility off of 1341 02:07:42,160 --> 02:07:48,720 four roadways with i-35 and oak street both being primary arterials bonny bray being a secondary 1342 02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:54,720 arterial so they have adequate access to the site it is an appropriate location for them to continue 1343 02:07:54,720 --> 02:08:01,600 expanding the hospital operations and just as a reminder any modifications they make once a pd is 1344 02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:06,160 established would either be considered major or minor things such as building expansions by more 1345 02:08:06,160 --> 02:08:13,280 than 10 would come back before the pnz and council as major amendments and then our final criteria is 1346 02:08:13,280 --> 02:08:17,440 with respect to whether there are adequate facilities to support the development again the 1347 02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:21,840 site is is developed so they have utilities in place as you can see here on on this map 1348 02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:27,360 and then with regard to accessibility they do have adequate access to the site the blue circles are 1349 02:08:27,360 --> 02:08:33,760 their major access points that are on on the hospital property these other blue circles that 1350 02:08:33,760 --> 02:08:37,840 are not shaded are those access points that are off-site but they do have connectivity through the 1351 02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:43,280 parking lot with these adjacent properties and then the yellow are their kind of minor access points 1352 02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:50,640 notification was provided regarding this request in the newspaper on our website and through 1353 02:08:50,640 --> 02:08:56,480 mailings we received no responses a neighborhood meeting was not held and staff is recommending 1354 02:08:56,480 --> 02:09:02,240 approval of this request and their next stop will be city council on november 10th and i am happy 1355 02:09:02,240 --> 02:09:08,320 to answer any questions thank you hailey for the presentation commissioner smith thank you hailey 1356 02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:13,760 uh thank her thank you chair thank you hailey for uh for looking up uh those numbers on um the parking 1357 02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:20,240 spaces so they're already grossly over parked by quite a lot um do you know how many new beds 1358 02:09:20,240 --> 02:09:27,760 they're adding into that expansion they're building on you happen to know that um i believe the total 1359 02:09:27,760 --> 02:09:35,520 beds they're relocating 48 beds from the existing uh women's facility so i don't believe i think it 1360 02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:41,360 was a very minor increase in like only four to six beds being added most of them were relocation 1361 02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:46,720 okay and if and if they had 48 beds in that old building if they even were to repurpose that for 1362 02:09:46,720 --> 02:09:50,960 something else it'd probably be just another 48 beds in the first place so you know all together 1363 02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:56,080 you're talking about maybe at most after they they redo their women's shelter women's uh 1364 02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:03,600 facility they're probably going to add maybe the most couple they're the parking spaces aren't 1365 02:10:03,600 --> 02:10:07,600 going to be maxed out basically it's uh it won't be a big issue it doesn't seem like um and then 1366 02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:11,280 kind of looking at the site plan again if you could pull that up one more time just to point 1367 02:10:11,280 --> 02:10:16,080 out i think for all commissioners just kind of as i've thought more about this since we talked 1368 02:10:16,080 --> 02:10:21,840 about it on work session uh i would probably make a case and i'd like to hear from applicant 1369 02:10:21,840 --> 02:10:29,680 whenever they get to visit i think that um right there it's fine it looks like where that mo b1 1370 02:10:29,680 --> 02:10:34,320 really where mo b3 is right down there that medical office building three that seems like 1371 02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:39,200 a smarter place to put a parking garage in the first place anyways um i don't know why you would 1372 02:10:39,200 --> 02:10:42,720 put it all the way down there where that existing women's center is just so far away from the main 1373 02:10:42,720 --> 02:10:46,960 hospital that it would make more sense to put it somewhere where they can even connect with the 1374 02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:51,920 sky bridge like you see a lot of hospitals in the area do the parking garages so and it's got that 1375 02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:58,960 accessibility to that one road there that connects the west west which is larger two-lane road that 1376 02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:03,760 would then connect to the i-35 so that probably ends up being a smart place to put a parking 1377 02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:10,400 garage if they're actually going there so okay uh mr smith uh this is uh chad anderson with hdr 1378 02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:18,240 uh part of the applicant team i can i can maybe help address some of that so so thr owns the 1379 02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:24,240 the land that those mo b1 and mo b3 sit on but those are land leases so they actually do not 1380 02:11:24,240 --> 02:11:30,800 own the buildings uh the existing women's center building they do own and the plan is to demolish 1381 02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:38,640 that once the new building is online and uh as you mentioned there's a there's currently a nice long 1382 02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:44,720 sky bridge between the existing hospital and the existing women's center the idea would be that um 1383 02:11:44,720 --> 02:11:52,320 that they would want to relocate a majority of the staff parking and create a staff lot surface lot 1384 02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:57,280 at this time where that current women's center is uh they'd have to add a new elevator and 1385 02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:03,440 stair etc at the end of that that uh sky bridge but the idea would be able to provide a convenient 1386 02:12:04,480 --> 02:12:11,600 parking and access for staff because right now staff are taking up um much more of the front 1387 02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:19,680 public parking than then they really uh would like them to the last few months aside obviously 1388 02:12:19,680 --> 02:12:25,600 parking census from the public has been somewhat down because visitors haven't been able to get 1389 02:12:25,600 --> 02:12:32,320 into the hospital that that aside under assuming normal operations uh it was taking away a 1390 02:12:32,320 --> 02:12:37,600 significant amount of parking from the public so anyway that's the thinking is because those 1391 02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:45,120 buildings are land leases um you're right from a physical location it would make sense but eventually 1392 02:12:45,120 --> 02:12:50,320 where that existing women's center is would be the most likely candidate for a parking garage 1393 02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:56,320 unless something changes with those land leases uh in the near future i will say this the parking 1394 02:12:56,320 --> 02:13:03,760 garage is not something that's on uh i wouldn't even say it's within a 10-year horizon um it's 1395 02:13:03,760 --> 02:13:10,080 just we're just trying to help them identify as this campus grows and develops and becomes 1396 02:13:10,080 --> 02:13:16,880 you know denton is a vastly or fastly growing uh city county that this is going to become a 1397 02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:21,680 larger hub as far as a regional hospital and so we're just trying to help them cover all their 1398 02:13:21,680 --> 02:13:26,400 bases and thinking what could be some uses that they they're going to have to think about in the 1399 02:13:26,400 --> 02:13:32,800 future and if this uh the idea is that when they eventually need new beds they that mob1 would be 1400 02:13:32,800 --> 02:13:38,560 torn down and that's where more beds would go and at that point you really would need to to 1401 02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:45,920 increase significantly the amount of parking for both staff and for public so it's it's a very 1402 02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:51,600 long-term vision um at this point but we're just trying to kind of really think through all the 1403 02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:56,080 scenarios in which to help them make sure that they're they're accounting for all the future 1404 02:13:56,080 --> 02:14:00,160 possibilities thank you mr anderson i appreciate it yep 1405 02:14:00,160 --> 02:14:07,840 is there other questions for staff or we have the applicant commissioner beck 1406 02:14:07,840 --> 02:14:14,800 yes uh thank you chair hailey can i see uh slide five again i'm sorry to make you put it up and 1407 02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:25,600 down again it's a yo-yo presentation not a problem this one yes so i something that this this second 1408 02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:33,520 go around on the on the presentation um is there so you made the point that um they're they're 1409 02:14:33,520 --> 02:14:43,440 tightly or more tightly uh detailing their pd than we would otherwise require of them we would have a 1410 02:14:43,440 --> 02:14:51,440 more loose definition of medical facility and whatnot is there any danger in over specifying 1411 02:14:51,440 --> 02:14:58,160 say for instance i mean say in mr anderson mentioned a 10-year plan if there was if for 1412 02:14:58,160 --> 02:15:03,440 some reason they didn't put a senior care center in there and they wanted to put a an imaging 1413 02:15:03,440 --> 02:15:09,680 facility uh is there any danger in that we've specified there has to be a senior care facility 1414 02:15:09,680 --> 02:15:17,120 now they don't have room for an imaging facility so this list would just this specifies what could 1415 02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:21,680 possibly go there it doesn't specify necessarily what has to go there this is just the list of 1416 02:15:21,680 --> 02:15:26,480 possibilities of things that they they saw as reasonable that that may go there in the future 1417 02:15:26,480 --> 02:15:30,880 or might already exist there this in no way says that they have to provide each one of these 1418 02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:37,760 individual things on site so it's not limiting no not at all and this is based on you know we 1419 02:15:37,760 --> 02:15:41,840 we do work all around the country and we're just trying to think of you know what we see 1420 02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:48,400 what we see health care providers doing throughout the country such as you know a hotel i mean we 1421 02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:53,200 md anderson's a good example right they do a lot of a lot of cancer treatments where people come 1422 02:15:53,200 --> 02:15:59,680 from all over the country and are there for weeks or months at a time and that there's a hotel on 1423 02:15:59,680 --> 02:16:06,320 on campus right so i mean don't immediately see that's not something that i would immediately say 1424 02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:11,920 oh they need a hotel but 20 years from now you know we just we don't know what the health care 1425 02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:17,360 environment will look like and so we're just trying to think what are what are some possibilities 1426 02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:22,480 in the future that that we just want to account for that is by no means saying 1427 02:16:22,480 --> 02:16:28,800 that there will be a hotel or that it would ever happen thank you thank you hailey 1428 02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:38,160 any other questions for hailey commissioner alice thank you chair hailey just getting back a little 1429 02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:44,320 bit to this parking garage so the way we have the pd um i guess the way this is going to be written 1430 02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:50,560 is they have the ability to build that garage with without anything i mean unless they would go over 1431 02:16:50,560 --> 02:16:56,560 10 of five stories or you know i mean there would be no reason that we would have any control over 1432 02:16:56,560 --> 02:17:03,120 them building the garage so my question is with the concerns that we kind of raise can we put 1433 02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:09,360 anything further in here that says at least the garage has to be reviewed in some you know the 1434 02:17:09,360 --> 02:17:17,040 concern is as commissioner smith brought up with increased traffic off of bonnie bray you know right 1435 02:17:17,040 --> 02:17:23,040 now those are not major entrances but if the garage is there they're going to be used more 1436 02:17:24,800 --> 02:17:32,160 as well as as residential home protection um that that i had brought up earlier i just don't know 1437 02:17:32,160 --> 02:17:38,640 if if we can put something in here that gives us a little bit more control over that or if that's 1438 02:17:38,640 --> 02:17:44,000 even appropriate or if that's something that even maybe staff had already discussed so um i would 1439 02:17:44,000 --> 02:17:49,920 love your thoughts on that yeah so the the way the code is worded um there's a list of things that 1440 02:17:49,920 --> 02:17:54,240 very specifically are considered major amendments that have to go before pnz and council and then 1441 02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:59,440 there's a blanket statement that any other change um significant change that the director thinks 1442 02:17:59,440 --> 02:18:05,680 should be reviewed by pnz and council can be can be essentially sent to you all in lieu of being a 1443 02:18:05,680 --> 02:18:11,440 staff approval so something as significant as a five-story parking garage even if it didn't fall 1444 02:18:11,440 --> 02:18:17,120 within the precise details of what it specifies or a major amendment i suspect would be something 1445 02:18:17,120 --> 02:18:24,000 that the director would would see as significant enough to come back yeah okay i'm sorry i was 1446 02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:28,960 even going to say if you want to suggest just to clarify so it's it's clear moving forward even if 1447 02:18:28,960 --> 02:18:34,800 it is 10 years down the line that for purposes of constructing a a standalone five-story parking 1448 02:18:34,800 --> 02:18:42,240 garage would be considered a major amendment right because the way i i read this is if it's in here 1449 02:18:42,240 --> 02:18:48,240 today we're they're not really amending it we're already saying they can build a five 1450 02:18:48,240 --> 02:18:56,960 level parking structure aren't we yes so we're not amending it we're already we're we're putting it 1451 02:18:56,960 --> 02:19:02,880 in there right now well a pd is is twofold so there's the text and then there's the map 1452 02:19:02,880 --> 02:19:09,120 um so the map as it as it's in the pd today is just existing conditions so modifications to that 1453 02:19:09,120 --> 02:19:13,600 map or what would trigger them uh coming back to to establish the things that are written into the 1454 02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:20,000 text okay but yeah i would probably love the text that richard suggested i think would would it would 1455 02:19:20,000 --> 02:19:25,600 make me feel better if it was in there okay the only other thing if i may add chair um and i know 1456 02:19:25,600 --> 02:19:32,000 we had the the question and work session about um a tia being required and and how that's typically 1457 02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:38,880 a tie tied to a um a use or expansion thereof in this instance um there would most likely i 1458 02:19:38,880 --> 02:19:45,680 shouldn't say most like there would be a um a traffic analysis done but more so on access 1459 02:19:45,680 --> 02:19:51,360 and and how uh how that's how that's done not necessarily trips but making sure that um that 1460 02:19:51,360 --> 02:19:56,240 that that is looked at so that could that would be a component of it great thanks for that 1461 02:19:56,240 --> 02:20:01,120 clarification any other questions for hayley do we have any public comment 1462 02:20:02,960 --> 02:20:09,120 great i'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing and uh we can continue discussing or put 1463 02:20:09,120 --> 02:20:18,000 a motion on the table christopher smith um no i'm not going to make a motion i'd actually like to 1464 02:20:18,000 --> 02:20:24,560 uh hear some discussion first according to what margie had said that um if anybody would be no 1465 02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:30,080 thoughts about putting in something that would uh pertain to having that that parking garage come 1466 02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:38,800 back i like your discussion about that before i made a motion uh sure i can jump in there i'm 1467 02:20:38,800 --> 02:20:42,800 not i'm not in favor of adding any more language for a parking garage it's going to be set back 1468 02:20:42,800 --> 02:20:47,760 behind a medical building it's going to be accessed off a primary arterial it's the biggest 1469 02:20:47,760 --> 02:20:53,600 possible street we have in our city it doesn't seem to be a five or ten year timeline on it um 1470 02:20:53,600 --> 02:20:59,200 i'm not going to hold them to their word but even if it's a two-year timeline to build five stories 1471 02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:06,160 the entire corridor is 40 and 50 feet tall as it is um so i don't i'm not i'm not too inclined 1472 02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:09,840 to add additional conditions that they come back for a parking garage i don't know what we would 1473 02:21:09,840 --> 02:21:14,640 do at that time except to make sure the entrance is wide enough and maybe try to put some aesthetics 1474 02:21:14,640 --> 02:21:20,560 around what material they can use um but it seems like for the service of our community our county 1475 02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:27,680 especially the northern uh residents of our county if we have a growing hospital and we can have a 1476 02:21:27,680 --> 02:21:33,840 staff parking to provide easy access to serve our community i just i just i generally out of principle 1477 02:21:33,840 --> 02:21:36,880 don't have an issue with the parking garage going there especially if i look at the city 1478 02:21:36,880 --> 02:21:43,200 where other parking garages are there's a parking garage on on highland that is 60 feet tall off a 1479 02:21:43,200 --> 02:21:49,760 one-way street um so i just i just don't have any issue uh to commissioner smith to your point to 1480 02:21:49,760 --> 02:21:54,880 hop in there i just don't have any issue with um allowing a parking garage on this approval 1481 02:21:54,880 --> 02:22:01,600 but christopher i think you had your hand up oh thank you chair i i echo what you just said 1482 02:22:01,600 --> 02:22:07,680 um i have no i i have no desire to put any conditions on them i mean this is a thriving 1483 02:22:07,680 --> 02:22:14,400 medical center and i spent 20 years working in medical schools hospitals medical centers all over 1484 02:22:14,400 --> 02:22:20,400 north america and there's nothing out of the ordinary here i'm thankful because i live in west 1485 02:22:20,400 --> 02:22:25,120 that this is where i'm going to go if i have a heart attack and stroke and i want a thriving 1486 02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:32,160 hospital area you know there was a time here when these people didn't do cardiac catheterizations 1487 02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:39,120 they got a thriving cath lab you know and various other things but i mean i'm thankful to have it 1488 02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:46,000 here and i don't see any point in giving them any further conditions not putting placing any 1489 02:22:46,000 --> 02:22:50,320 further conditions on thank you mr cole uh christopher i also want to go to christopher beck real 1490 02:22:50,320 --> 02:22:57,040 fast than than to you christopher yeah thank you chair uh mine's short uh i actually kind of favor 1491 02:22:57,040 --> 02:23:03,040 the parking garage um because it'll it takes the pressure off of the the pervious and impervious 1492 02:23:03,040 --> 02:23:08,640 surfaces and the other reason that we changed our code to to have the new standard that makes the 1493 02:23:08,640 --> 02:23:15,120 hospital not conforming they don't have to actually be i mean they're not going to change but we don't 1494 02:23:15,120 --> 02:23:20,560 have to make them be even worse in terms of the reason we put those ordinances in place so i am 1495 02:23:20,560 --> 02:23:26,800 actually kind of in favor of the parking garage thanks chair uh commissioner alice thank you 1496 02:23:26,800 --> 02:23:31,360 chair i feel like i was painted in a bad light and i just would like to clear it up i am not against 1497 02:23:31,360 --> 02:23:38,240 this at all this all makes sense i was simply trying to ensure that if they were going to build 1498 02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:44,080 a five-story parking garage that we as the city could at least see what that looked like since 1499 02:23:44,080 --> 02:23:51,120 there are again single-family homes right there i'm not against the parking garage i simply wanted 1500 02:23:51,120 --> 02:23:56,160 to ensure as richard said that it would come before us and be considered a major amendment 1501 02:23:56,160 --> 02:24:01,600 when it was built that's all i wanted in there that was just for for neighborhood protection is 1502 02:24:01,600 --> 02:24:08,000 all i am not against this facility it is fantastic and it should be expanded and improved and i'm happy 1503 02:24:09,120 --> 02:24:14,240 and in support of it commissioner alice i appreciate the clarification one one follow-up 1504 02:24:14,240 --> 02:24:21,680 to that are you okay with the city staff and director of development to use that position's 1505 02:24:21,680 --> 02:24:27,520 discretion to bring it before pnz it seems like that's already codified that way or are you wanting 1506 02:24:27,520 --> 02:24:34,400 a additional language that it must be brought back and heard and then the pnz could deny 1507 02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:40,480 or prove a parking garage in the future no i would be okay with staff looking at it the way i read 1508 02:24:40,480 --> 02:24:46,560 this the to me it looks like we're giving them approval to build a five-story garage or five 1509 02:24:46,560 --> 02:24:54,400 level garage wherever they would like to build it and perhaps that's not the case um so i would 1510 02:24:54,400 --> 02:24:59,200 richard can you clarify maybe my understanding is incorrect if if they elect to proceed with the 1511 02:24:59,200 --> 02:25:03,840 parking garage sometime in the future that would be reviewed by the director and they would have the 1512 02:25:03,840 --> 02:25:10,320 discretion to bring that to a commission or approve or deny it themselves can you it would it would go 1513 02:25:10,320 --> 02:25:14,720 through a process of whether it be a determination would need to be made whether it's considered a 1514 02:25:14,720 --> 02:25:20,640 minor or major i'm given where they are with parking now i'm guessing if they were to build a 1515 02:25:20,640 --> 02:25:27,600 five-level garage there would be some additional growth with the hot with the hospital we would 1516 02:25:27,600 --> 02:25:34,000 just have to look at at what they're what and how they're expanding if it's tied to that it would 1517 02:25:34,000 --> 02:25:38,160 just be a judgment call depending what it is that they're they're proposing and how they're proposing 1518 02:25:38,160 --> 02:25:44,320 it but but they to commissioner alice's specific point would they have by right ability to go build 1519 02:25:44,320 --> 02:25:51,600 a garage or they would actually be reviewed prior to approval being granted it if it's a minor 1520 02:25:51,600 --> 02:25:56,720 amendment no it would just be it would be a staff approval um one of the things i think we need to 1521 02:25:56,720 --> 02:26:05,440 look at too is um you know when that may happen and you know people make different interpretations 1522 02:26:05,440 --> 02:26:10,000 all all the time um but i think if you if you just look at the code and definition of building 1523 02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:14,720 i don't know that a parking garage would fall under the definition of building under our code 1524 02:26:14,720 --> 02:26:22,160 it's not a a structure for habitation um but again it would all depend um if it's connected to the 1525 02:26:22,160 --> 02:26:31,120 building um if it's a stand there's a multitude of of of scenarios okay uh commissioner smith 1526 02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:36,960 what i get for trying to just stem out maybe a friendly amendment later on down the road with 1527 02:26:36,960 --> 02:26:43,200 the with a motion but i'm gonna go make a motion for approval um as uh as recommended uh commissioner 1528 02:26:43,200 --> 02:26:48,960 anderson i second the motion okay we have a first and a second for approval as uh staff 1529 02:26:48,960 --> 02:26:57,200 has outlined uh any discussion on this item commissioner ellis yes since i don't have any 1530 02:26:57,200 --> 02:27:01,440 support i will give up what i was trying to get accomplished but i will say for the record that i 1531 02:27:01,440 --> 02:27:07,920 do hope that um we keep tabs on that as a staff when it does come time that they are building a 1532 02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:12,480 garage thank you commissioner ellis any other discussion 1533 02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:21,040 seeing none we'll call for a vote via roll call commissioner cole aye commissioner prunetta 1534 02:27:21,040 --> 02:27:28,480 aye commissioner anderson aye commissioner beck aye commissioner ellis 1535 02:27:28,480 --> 02:27:37,520 aye commissioner smith aye chair is also an aye motion carries seven zero next item of business 1536 02:27:37,520 --> 02:27:44,400 is item 4c s20-0003 i'm going to go ahead and open the public hearing but staff is requesting 1537 02:27:44,400 --> 02:27:49,760 this item be postponed to a date certain of november 4th chair will ask for a motion to 1538 02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:54,960 that end commissioner smith make a motion to uh postpone to the date certain number fourth 1539 02:27:54,960 --> 02:27:59,600 we have a first commissioner prunetta i'll second the motion we have a first and a second for a 1540 02:27:59,600 --> 02:28:06,000 postponement to a date certain of november 4th any discussion on this seeing none i'll call for a vote 1541 02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:13,040 via roll call commissioner cole aye commissioner prunetta aye commissioner anderson aye commissioner 1542 02:28:13,040 --> 02:28:20,800 beck aye commissioner ellis aye commissioner smith aye chair is also an aye motion carries seven 1543 02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:29,360 zero the next item of business is item 4d aesa 20-0005a i will open the public hearing and staff 1544 02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:34,080 is also requesting that this item is postponed to a date certain of november 4th commissioner prunetta 1545 02:28:34,080 --> 02:28:40,160 uh motion to postpone to a date certain of november 4th we have a first commissioner smith 1546 02:28:40,160 --> 02:28:47,520 second a first and a second any discussion on this commissioner beck it just occurred to me 1547 02:28:47,520 --> 02:28:53,920 november 4th uh everybody be on your best behavior on november 4th when we rediscussed this so thank 1548 02:28:53,920 --> 02:29:01,120 you it'll be calm commissioner beck it'll be calm thanks jim like the eye of the hurricane 1549 02:29:01,120 --> 02:29:08,800 um he is non-partisan by the way that's right aren't we all uh we will uh vote via roll call 1550 02:29:08,800 --> 02:29:18,400 commissioner cole aye commissioner prunetta aye commissioner anderson aye commissioner beck 1551 02:29:18,400 --> 02:29:26,480 aye commissioner ellis aye commissioner smith aye chair is also an aye motion carries seven zero 1552 02:29:26,480 --> 02:29:30,000 the next and final item on our agenda this evening is the planning and zoning 1553 02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:35,680 matrix i will turn the floor over to richard for any updates and then to the dais for discussion 1554 02:29:38,800 --> 02:29:46,960 you're muted richard sorry about that yep uh keeping with the uh um november 4th meeting date 1555 02:29:46,960 --> 02:29:53,920 we will have a robust uh agenda um we're we're still working through just a number of plats 1556 02:29:53,920 --> 02:29:58,880 obviously um rezonings and then the items that were continued but in addition we have two big 1557 02:29:58,880 --> 02:30:04,080 work session items um the mobility plan which i think we'll still be able to have at that meeting 1558 02:30:05,520 --> 02:30:12,240 as well as parks is working through their update uh to the park dedication ordinance as well as the 1559 02:30:12,240 --> 02:30:18,240 park development fee ordinance um so gary we'll have gary back again at our next meeting uh to 1560 02:30:18,240 --> 02:30:25,680 give to give an update on how that works um before i go into i guess council council action if 1561 02:30:25,680 --> 02:30:33,200 if there are any questions yeah commissioner beck thank you chair hey richard um is this is this 1562 02:30:33,200 --> 02:30:40,080 mobility plan the the final draft or uh the the public has no more opportunity for feedback 1563 02:30:40,080 --> 02:30:46,000 my understanding is the public the public will have opportunity to provide feedback up through 1564 02:30:46,000 --> 02:30:51,600 the you know up until council adopts it um but but this is just giving that what what they've 1565 02:30:51,600 --> 02:30:57,120 done to date what they're continuing what they will continue to do and then how the process 1566 02:30:57,120 --> 02:31:04,400 works for updating updating the mobility plan okay uh yeah it's just i i don't know about the rest 1567 02:31:04,400 --> 02:31:10,560 of the commissioners but i'm getting a lot of citizen feedback on elements of the mobility plan 1568 02:31:10,560 --> 02:31:18,000 so thanks richard yep all right richard council updates just just quickly um at last night's 1569 02:31:18,000 --> 02:31:23,840 meeting um the alternative esos for ryan high school and eagle cove were both were both approved 1570 02:31:24,560 --> 02:31:30,640 as was the text amendment for the tattoo and piercing uh parlors in mn um the other public 1571 02:31:30,640 --> 02:31:36,720 hearing that we had on the mockingbird residential um if you if you recall uh it was a vote of seven 1572 02:31:36,720 --> 02:31:43,600 zero to deny um the applicant had added some additional uh conditions uh at at the meeting 1573 02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:50,400 um unbeknownst to staff there was some concern that council had uh with those conditions being 1574 02:31:50,400 --> 02:31:57,200 brought forward to them without the knowledge of p and z and so it was voted that they remand that 1575 02:31:57,200 --> 02:32:02,960 back to p and z for consideration so that will be coming back on the 18th of november 1576 02:32:02,960 --> 02:32:10,480 it will be an individual consideration item but one of the other directions that council gave was 1577 02:32:10,480 --> 02:32:15,680 to go ahead and notice it as it as it would be public hearing so we will we will meet those 1578 02:32:15,680 --> 02:32:20,480 requirements that's why it's coming back on on on 11 18 but wanted to let you know that that will 1579 02:32:20,480 --> 02:32:27,840 be back back in front of you great christian alice thank you chair so richard on that note 1580 02:32:27,840 --> 02:32:33,920 did staff review or you're going to review the conditions i guess we will review the other the 1581 02:32:33,920 --> 02:32:38,000 conditions um i i think in addition they probably need to have another neighborhood meeting with 1582 02:32:38,000 --> 02:32:43,440 with the conditions that they were adding it was a limitation on the number of lots um that that 1583 02:32:43,440 --> 02:32:48,800 could technically be built there and so um we'll see how that goes i guess on the 18th 1584 02:32:48,800 --> 02:32:56,080 okay thank you great thank you for those updates any other items that need to be 1585 02:32:56,080 --> 02:32:57,680 added to the matrix or clarified 1586 02:32:57,680 --> 02:33:06,880 okay great seeing none i'll go ahead and close the meeting at 7 11 thank you everyone thank you