WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.360 We have determined that a quorum has been met. 00:00:08.360 --> 00:00:13.260 The downtown Denton tax increment financing reinvestment zone number one board of the 00:00:13.260 --> 00:00:20.060 city of Denton, Texas will now convene in a regular meeting at 9.02 a.m. this Wednesday, 00:00:20.060 --> 00:00:22.320 the 21st day of October 2020. 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:26.400 Our first order of business is 1A, consider approval and/or corrections of the meeting 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:32.320 minutes from the September 23rd, 2020 downtown Denton TIF reinvestment zone number one board 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:33.800 of the city of Denton, Texas. 00:00:33.800 --> 00:00:43.700 Are there any corrections to the minutes as distributed? 00:00:43.700 --> 00:00:48.120 Do we have a motion? 00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:49.120 All motion. 00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:51.360 Do we have a second? 00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:52.360 Then motion. 00:00:52.360 --> 00:00:55.360 Do we have a second? 00:00:55.360 --> 00:00:56.360 No. 00:00:56.360 --> 00:00:57.360 Paul is the second. 00:00:57.360 --> 00:01:00.560 It is moved and seconded that we approve the minutes as presented. 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:02.040 I will call by name. 00:01:02.040 --> 00:01:05.000 Please unmute and give us a word of approval or disapproval. 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.000 Paul? 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:07.000 Aye. 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.000 Ben? 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Aye. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:10.000 Gerard? 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:11.000 Aye. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:12.000 Melissa? 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.000 Aye. 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:17.600 The motion passes by unanimous vote. 00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:30.160 The second item of business is to receive a report and hold a discussion, give staff 00:01:30.160 --> 00:01:35.480 direction regarding the downtown Denton TIF reinvestment zone number one study and analysis 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:38.400 being conducted by TXP Inc. 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:42.680 I think I understand that we're going to go through this pretty quickly because it's a 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:51.600 pre-visit of our last meeting and we'll just further discussions that we were started last 00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:52.600 meeting. 00:01:52.600 --> 00:01:53.600 Yes. 00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:58.920 So Travis James with TXP is here with us again to present. 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:00.600 This will be new to me. 00:02:00.600 --> 00:02:01.920 I missed the last meeting. 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:06.480 So Travis has kindly agreed to go through the presentation. 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:11.640 Just quickly a refresher of where we left off and then we'll just lead the board in 00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:14.060 a discussion on items. 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:16.320 So I'll just turn it over to Travis. 00:02:16.320 --> 00:02:17.320 Great. 00:02:17.320 --> 00:02:18.320 Thank you, Jessica. 00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:19.320 Thank you, Chair. 00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:23.080 I will spend about five or 10 minutes going through this and people can jump in and ask 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:24.080 questions. 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:25.840 Nothing has changed in the slide deck. 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.840 Where we ended last time was trying to get recommendations from this group about what 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:31.760 projects to fund. 00:02:31.760 --> 00:02:35.480 So we'll get back to that point pretty quickly and I'll stop talking. 00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:43.480 Next slide. 00:02:43.480 --> 00:02:48.200 We will -- I was retained at the end, I can't believe, about a year ago at the end of 2019. 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:53.360 As I said last time, when I was brought in, the focus was on PEC 4, Phase 3 and 4. 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.520 Things have changed since then based on the analysis, which is why we are here today and 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.320 talk about some broader uses of the TURRS, whether Phase 3 and 4 make sense or we should 00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:06.360 look at some other things. 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.480 Next slide. 00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:13.600 I think you all know this TURRS terminates in 2041. 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:15.480 This TURRS is for 30 years. 00:03:15.480 --> 00:03:22.080 It has a decreasing contribution by the city of Denton, its only participant, and has about 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:25.040 a $25 million cap. 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:28.520 A couple million dollars have been raised and spent to date. 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:34.240 There's about $20 to $21 million left that could come in over the next 30 years before 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.320 it hits the cap or has to terminate. 00:03:37.320 --> 00:03:40.680 Next slide. 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:44.560 This is just the scope of work and what we've worked on in the past. 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.880 We're on Task 6 and 7. 00:03:47.880 --> 00:03:49.360 Next slide. 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:54.880 To remind everybody, this is the TURRS boundary that was created. 00:03:54.880 --> 00:03:59.000 When the TURRS was created, it can be modified as we talked about at the last meeting, but 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:02.620 this is the current boundaries of the downtown TURRS. 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:07.520 On the next slide, as I reminded everybody, when you created the TURRS, you used a different 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:12.880 consulting company who looked at what they called catalytic areas and they identified 00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:19.960 five of them, labeled them A through E. Not a lot of activity has happened in any of the 00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:20.960 zones. 00:04:20.960 --> 00:04:26.080 In area A, you've had the eastern departments near the transit station, that's the closest, 00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:32.240 but not a lot of the development that was projected in the catalytic plan or the catalytic 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:33.400 areas has occurred. 00:04:33.400 --> 00:04:39.560 On the next slide, you'll see that, based on that original analysis, they projected 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:49.560 about $126 million of new catalytic project activity could take place within those areas. 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:52.280 You see the timeline there on the far right. 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:55.840 Some of them, like D, were getting into that early timeline. 00:04:55.840 --> 00:05:01.080 Other of those were sort of halfway through or at the beginning phases of when we should 00:05:01.080 --> 00:05:03.120 have seen things occur. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.960 On the next slide. 00:05:06.960 --> 00:05:11.820 As I said before, the overall TURRS revenue has been consistent despite the fact that 00:05:11.820 --> 00:05:14.680 there hasn't been a lot of catalytic projects. 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:18.200 About $3 million has been collected to date. 00:05:18.200 --> 00:05:23.120 That means there's about $21 million that can come in before we hit the cap. 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:29.280 That last bullet point is important that if no new development occurs and we see 2.5% 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:34.600 appreciation, the TURRS will hit the cap right around year 30. 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:40.880 So any new development that occurs will mean we'll hit that cap sooner than 2030. 00:05:40.880 --> 00:05:47.520 On the next slide, the TURRS baseline back in 2010 was about $80 million. 00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:54.940 The TURRS is about $225 million today, so it's grown about $150 million. 00:05:54.940 --> 00:05:59.400 According to the appraisal district, about $28 million has been new construction. 00:05:59.400 --> 00:06:03.120 $124 million has been appreciation. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:08.120 So if you think back a few slides ago, there was over $100 million worth of catalytic activity 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:12.600 that was projected, about $28 million has occurred. 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.160 On the next slide. 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.500 This is just your annual revenue stream. 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:25.200 Going forward, I think thinking about $900 to $1 million a year of revenue is an appropriate 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:26.200 ballpark. 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:30.080 I think the only expenditure that you have on the books every year is going to be I think 00:06:30.080 --> 00:06:36.240 about $100,000 for the downtown grant program that was shifted over as a TURRS expense. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.640 Next slide. 00:06:38.640 --> 00:06:41.480 As I said, if we just -- this is a cumulative chart. 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:47.540 I think we're going to hit the cap, assuming no new development, 2.5% appreciation. 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:51.400 About 2038 to 2040. 00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:54.100 Next slide. 00:06:54.100 --> 00:06:57.560 So this is the stakeholder input that we talked about last time, and I'll go through this 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.640 quickly unless somebody wants to stop me. 00:06:59.640 --> 00:07:04.760 There was not consensus on a downtown parking or parking garage. 00:07:04.760 --> 00:07:08.480 Businesses said they're obviously struggling with COVID, so if we think about a new big 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.240 infrastructure project, think about when you would start it so it doesn't impact their 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.260 businesses even more than they're already being impacted. 00:07:16.260 --> 00:07:21.000 Some smaller projects focused on lighting and sidewalk improvements may be more appropriate 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:22.000 in the short term. 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.280 That's what we heard from the tenants and the retailers. 00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:29.160 Drainage improvement projects are necessary to create development opportunities in the 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:34.960 future, but the new projects may not occur in the short term. 00:07:34.960 --> 00:07:40.880 On the next slide, I'm going back. 00:07:40.880 --> 00:07:45.760 Downtown needs more daytime office employment and traffic to balance the nighttime activity. 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:48.840 Tourist rents aren't high enough to justify new construction. 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:52.920 That's where you may need to use an incentive to step in, disperse some of that type of 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:54.640 activity. 00:07:54.640 --> 00:07:59.280 Developers told us that they'd like to use tourist funds to incentivize larger economic 00:07:59.280 --> 00:08:01.100 development projects. 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:06.400 Think about another funding source for infrastructure, street sidewalks, lighting. 00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:10.960 Existing businesses said they'd like to use the tourist funds on programs to improve building 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:12.760 improvements in the facade program. 00:08:12.760 --> 00:08:17.440 So two different perspectives based on your individual needs. 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:22.760 And then I think a theme throughout the past year has been downtown lacks an overall vision, 00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:27.000 so it makes it hard to prioritize how to spend tourist money. 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.840 So it's not clear on what the vision is or how the money should be prioritized. 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:39.640 On the next slide, just as a reminder that as the tourist plan exists today, these are 00:08:39.640 --> 00:08:45.200 the kinds of things you can spend money on without having to amend the project plan. 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:50.200 So parking, transportation, streets, grants, utility, drainage, improvements, the bulk 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:57.120 of what we're talking about are eligible expenditures as the tourist is set up today. 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.120 On the next slide. 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.000 All right. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.840 So this is a slightly confusing graphic and this is where we ended last time. 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:08.840 What you see in red is the existing tourists. 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:16.440 The PEC4 phase three and four you see in red and blue, they are for the most part outside 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.200 of the tourist boundary. 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:23.220 So if you wanted to use tourist funding to fund that entire project, you would need to 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:25.880 expand the tourist boundary. 00:09:25.880 --> 00:09:32.440 And you see in the black and white hashed line, that was one attempt we had come up 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:38.200 with on how it made sense potentially to expand the boundary if you wanted to fund phases 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:39.920 three and four. 00:09:39.920 --> 00:09:45.320 The purple parcels, those are the parcels that get removed out of the flood plain. 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:49.240 So that's part of how we drew the boundary to pick up the parcels where development 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:51.440 would likely occur. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.600 So as a refresher, the red is the existing tourist boundary. 00:09:55.600 --> 00:10:00.320 The black and white with the purple parcels is how I would recommend if you wanted to 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:05.680 fund phases three and four out of the tours, you may want to expand the tours. 00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:11.480 One to make the project eligible, and two to pick up the parcels that would be impacted. 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:14.800 On the next slide, we'll talk about projects that we've talked about. 00:10:14.800 --> 00:10:17.600 Go back, sorry, Erica. 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:18.840 We'll talk about the new streets. 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:20.500 I think you all know where those are. 00:10:20.500 --> 00:10:23.340 That was a project that came up for discussion. 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:28.200 We talked about the improvements along Hickory Street, and it might make sense to make those 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:29.320 on oak. 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.520 You see oak is outlined there in the pink. 00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:39.120 And then another type of corridor improvement we talked about with folks were elm and locust. 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:43.480 So maybe we should focus on elm and locust because it's a long corridor. 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:49.200 Make those improvements, and it brings a lot of parcels into play. 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:57.220 So on the next slide, we had come up with sort of a ballpark for ROI. 00:10:57.220 --> 00:11:02.080 So pack four, phase three and four, it's about a $15 million project. 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:08.640 If you funded it out of the TURS, the combination of the $15 million cost plus interest would 00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:12.600 consume the $20 to $21 million left. 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:17.480 So if the city went out and issued debt, funded it by the TURS, the numbers look good that 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:22.640 it could be paid for by the TURS, but it would use up all of the remaining funding. 00:11:22.640 --> 00:11:29.240 The city did an analysis just on the PEC four parcels, and they found that if you pulled 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:35.500 those parcels out of the floodplain, property values could increase by $15 to $20 million. 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:40.040 So if you looked at comparable properties and development that were outside of the floodplain, 00:11:40.040 --> 00:11:45.160 and then you looked at those properties, they projected about $20 million in new value over 00:11:45.160 --> 00:11:51.920 time, and that translates to about $100,000 a year in new city property tax revenue based 00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:55.560 on the current property tax rate. 00:11:55.560 --> 00:12:02.480 Another project is the Mew Streets, that's about a $7 million project. 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:09.600 Has a short term impact, it would likely increase traffic and activities to existing retailers. 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:14.060 I don't know that it would have a dramatic increase on property values. 00:12:14.060 --> 00:12:18.860 We talked about the corridor improvements, Hickory Street was about $7 to $8 million 00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:20.760 for half a mile. 00:12:20.760 --> 00:12:26.320 Down Hickory Street over the past five to six years, those properties have increased 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:29.600 in value by about $50 million. 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:35.480 Now it's hard for the but for and draw a direct link between the improvements and the value 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:42.240 increase, but about $50 million in new value, which translates to about $300,000 a year 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.040 in property tax. 00:12:44.040 --> 00:12:49.300 We talked about developer incentives last time, those would vary by project. 00:12:49.300 --> 00:12:56.200 It's likely those would cost about $5 to $10 million per project. 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.640 That's a specific ask by the developer. 00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:07.120 Another thing we talked about was expanding the grant program, and I just put $50 to $100,000, 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.480 would have an immediate impact, would vary by project, would likely not generate a tremendous 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.720 amount of new property value for the tours. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.560 And the last item was general maintenance, folks said, hey, we need to keep more money 00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:26.520 into downtown to keep things clean and maintenance and those kinds of things. 00:13:26.520 --> 00:13:29.140 So I know I went through that relatively quickly. 00:13:29.140 --> 00:13:34.320 So these were the kinds of projects that we were talking about last time, the cost. 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:41.300 And on the next slide, this is where we ended and we're having the discussion about should 00:13:41.300 --> 00:13:46.920 the tours issue debt to pay for PAC four phases three and four, or should the tours funds 00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:50.160 be used for strategic corridor improvements? 00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:57.080 How should the city resolve the request for developer incentives and expanded grant programs? 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:04.120 And then last, under what conditions might the city extend the life of the tours and 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:08.560 or exceed the $24 million revenue cap? 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:15.920 So with that share, I'll stop and try to get input maybe from this group about how the 00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:22.160 money should be spent and what kind of recommendations should be made to city council. 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:31.160 Say I'm, I'm leaning again towards the, the drainage project. 00:14:31.160 --> 00:14:40.440 I think that has the biggest impact for downtown overall, but it scares me to think that we 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:47.160 would, we would kill this fund with that. 00:14:47.160 --> 00:14:55.160 I guess mine, mine hinges on those, those questions of would council be willing to, 00:14:55.160 --> 00:14:58.640 to extend the timeline for the tours and extend the cap. 00:14:58.640 --> 00:15:04.720 And I think, I think with that, that it might be nice if we can go back and look at the 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.040 funding for PAC one through four. 00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:14.640 And when that started to be looked at by the city, I know that's kind of far back and we 00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:16.400 didn't talk about this last time. 00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:20.880 It's more, I seem to remember that we had already funded one through four and then we 00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:24.600 ran out of money and had to pull it back to one through two. 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:29.700 Can anybody speak to that? 00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:35.840 I mean, I do, I can, I know it was, it was passed in the, in a previous bond package 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:42.420 and then just like a lot of things, it just drags out too long to the point where costs 00:15:42.420 --> 00:15:45.920 creep up, you know, faster than we get to them. 00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:52.100 And, you know, most of the stuff that we were slated for downtown either couldn't get funded 00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:57.800 like this or hasn't been funded like quiet zones for whatever reason, those sorts of 00:15:57.800 --> 00:15:58.800 things. 00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:05.200 And part of the conversation last time was there was some, some grant funding, potential 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.240 EDA funding that the city was going after. 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.960 And I think Erica remind me, I think you said there wouldn't be a decision on that for a 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:12.960 year or two. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:13.960 Yeah. 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:14.960 It's competitive. 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.680 So it would take some time. 00:16:20.680 --> 00:16:26.600 What are the chances of this being to Ben's point really is instead of a hundred percent 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:33.960 funded out of TERS, that it is a shared cost with TERS having some percentage, the expanded 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.760 TERS area that we're considering having some percentages, some percentage in the city having 00:16:38.760 --> 00:16:44.520 some percentage is just something that again, to Ben's point, it would be difficult to just 00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:46.600 say we created the TERS. 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:52.320 We're just going to get some of our town out of the flood zone through this TERS, but not 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.280 what it was intended for by any stretch. 00:16:56.280 --> 00:17:03.800 Does anybody have any other input maybe just regarding with regard to the PEC one through 00:17:03.800 --> 00:17:05.880 or two through four, three through three. 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:13.960 Well, you know, one thing that Todd has said to me, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a very strong advocate 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:21.160 for that and I share the sense that that is the biggest impact, but he's been reluctant 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:30.920 to put non-TERS funds into it because the value, the increase in property value and 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.860 therefore the increase in tax revenue will all go into the TERS. 00:17:34.860 --> 00:17:36.640 So that that's a problem. 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.640 That's also an opportunity. 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:46.080 You know, I think if there's a solid plan that there would be an openness to, you know, 00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:52.780 extending the footprint, extending the timeline, you know, if it all hangs together, you know, 00:17:52.780 --> 00:17:58.720 not just like, please give us more, but here's a solid plan that if you do this and you do 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:06.520 that, then we'll get to those things and, you know, and here's what the result will 00:18:06.520 --> 00:18:07.520 be. 00:18:07.520 --> 00:18:13.400 Is it my understanding though, too, that, I mean, if TERS is funding that we have to 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.960 expand the TERS, right? 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.680 You would have to expand, but legally you'd have to expand and I don't know if Erica can 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:27.200 pull up the map again, but you'd have to at least expand it to pick up the physical footprint. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:32.000 I would recommend that you pick up those parcels that are in purple because those, that's what 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.560 you're taking out of the floodplain where you would generate the increment. 00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:39.080 I think it was about two slides back. 00:18:39.080 --> 00:18:48.480 We're working on it, but while we were, yes, you would have to expand the boundary legally 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:57.040 to pay for all projects have to be within the physical footprint. 00:18:57.040 --> 00:19:02.280 So we looked up what was approved in the bond program in the 2014 bond program and it only 00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:08.200 included phase two of PEC three and four, so PEC four phases three and four were not 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.040 included in that bond program. 00:19:10.040 --> 00:19:13.720 Wait, can you repeat that please? 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:20.360 So off camera is our finance director, Cassie Ogden, and she pulled up the propositions for 00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:25.200 and the projects that were listed under the 2014 bond program and it only included phase 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.560 two of PEC four. 00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:33.880 Yeah, I don't recall that being the case, but okay. 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:41.000 Well we had, I think, so we have like two different PEC projects, and I think PEC one 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.840 had one through four and PEC two had five through eight. 00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:46.840 That's correct. 00:19:46.840 --> 00:19:49.520 There are multiple ones that have PEC in front of them. 00:19:49.520 --> 00:19:52.840 They're the different tributaries for Pocon Creek. 00:19:52.840 --> 00:20:01.640 One being south of downtown and two being north of downtown. 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:08.320 As you see that map, thank you Erica, the purple parcels are the parcels that get taken 00:20:08.320 --> 00:20:12.120 out of the floodplain and that are impacted by the project. 00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:18.200 So I would definitely expand the boundary to pick up those parcels and I think we went 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:23.960 down to eagle just because it made it sort of clean and simple, and so we followed the 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.200 street network. 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:33.620 So that black and white bubbled area would need to, you know, you need to expand the 00:20:33.620 --> 00:20:39.200 turrets roughly, and so the turrets down in the weeds would have two base values. 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:44.520 The turrets in red has the old base value and if council chose to expand it, you know, 00:20:44.520 --> 00:20:52.400 this would have a 2021 or 2020 base value whenever they made that decision to expand 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.400 it. 00:20:53.400 --> 00:21:03.480 If we were going to do that and use a majority of our funding for fixing drainage, why stop 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:04.480 on the south side? 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:10.560 I guess my question would be for Paul, you know, if you're an advocate for this use and 00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:19.480 would be someone advocating for council, I guess Gerard as well, why stop there? 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:25.280 It's an enormous task to fix these problems and Gerard knows we've looked at some other 00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:30.880 areas north of downtown around Bell where there's still an opportunity for redevelopment. 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:37.880 If this is a way to fund the fix to the problem, why, if we're going to go through this process 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:42.560 and amend boundaries, why stop with that little section you're referring to? 00:21:42.560 --> 00:21:49.400 I mean, since you asked me first, I don't disagree with that. 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:56.800 I think it's sort of, well, okay, you're saying, you know, and do the whole thing. 00:21:56.800 --> 00:21:57.800 Yeah, I don't know. 00:21:57.800 --> 00:21:59.360 I'll be open to looking at that. 00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:06.920 I mean, if I had to pick where to go first, it's just sort of like developed but underdeveloped 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:16.240 now and adjacent, so it looks like lower hanging fruit, but I don't disagree with you. 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:22.120 I think there's as many opportunities north of downtown that probably because the area, 00:22:22.120 --> 00:22:28.080 to me, feels and looks better, would encourage better redevelopment, if you follow me. 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:34.400 There are parcels that are closer to TWU, there are parcels that are closer to nicer 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:40.200 neighborhoods that, you know, and maybe fewer use car lots that, you know, a developer might 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.080 come in and look, hey, all right, I see something here, whereas they feel like they're taking 00:22:45.080 --> 00:22:49.520 a bigger chance on the south side, you know, so. 00:22:49.520 --> 00:22:54.520 I think ultimately the policy question, Alex, for is exactly what you're saying for City 00:22:54.520 --> 00:23:02.080 Council is any expansion of the TERS will directly impact the general fund, and so that's 00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:06.720 ultimately the question that will be posed to City Council, is that an expansion of the 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:11.360 boundaries and the capturing of tax dollars that were going to the general fund will now 00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:14.880 be captured by the TERS, and so that is the base of the question. 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.480 That is a very good point. 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:24.680 And I would also like to add, just because I'm knowledgeable about the FEMA tax that 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:29.360 anybody who owns property in the flood plain or plans to develop property in the flood 00:23:29.360 --> 00:23:37.200 plain, they, you know, the development can't happen within the flood plain because of FEMA 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:43.800 restrictions and the cost of FEMA insurance for any owner that carries a mortgage is exorbitant 00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:46.320 and doesn't essentially go back into the city. 00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:53.520 It goes somewhere else, and so I think that's a bit of a shame that without fixing those 00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:56.360 things that there's money lost. 00:23:56.360 --> 00:24:00.520 It's not considered the ROI we're talking about today, but it is return on investment 00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:02.800 within the community. 00:24:02.800 --> 00:24:09.640 You know, I thought that Alex was referring to flood plain north of the square. 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:10.640 I am. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:11.640 I am. 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:12.640 Oh, you are. 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.640 Okay. 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:14.640 I am. 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:19.040 So the floodways and floodplains, the chambers, you know, the chamber and city's building, 00:24:19.040 --> 00:24:22.520 for instance, I know there's a discussion of doing something with that property, but 00:24:22.520 --> 00:24:26.480 I look at that and think there's nothing to do with that property other than just use 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:29.960 it maybe the way it is, right? 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:33.720 You know, there's the property around Bell and McKinney. 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.360 All that stuff right there could be, you know, repurposed. 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:42.880 And so again, I get the point about general fund, but I just see, if you're only talking 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:48.560 about the increment and maybe it's, and this is a legal issue, but if you create a separate 00:24:48.560 --> 00:24:55.880 TURZ zone on the north side and there's no question that it's only to be used for drainage 00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:56.880 improvements, right? 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.000 I just don't, I just know how long these things take and how much dialogue and discussion 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.240 and consultants and engineers get involved for us to do this. 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:09.760 We'll be looking up at another 10 years and saying we should have done the north side 00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:10.760 too. 00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:12.400 I don't disagree. 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:16.680 I think that's, it's, it's worth, it's worth looking at. 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:21.440 You know what really the key is to this whole thing and certainly to getting buy-in it's 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:32.420 slide 13, the last comment, there isn't, there isn't a vision for downtown and that makes 00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:34.240 it difficult to prioritize. 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.920 And it really, if I had to put our energy somewhere, it would be, and maybe that's, 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:43.640 it's all better now, but it's like, really you need, you need the picture, you know, 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:48.920 you need the artists rendering of what this all ultimately looks like and the people can 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:55.600 buy into that includes, I mean, you may just see lots with dollar signs on them, you know? 00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:57.440 No, I certainly have vision, Paul. 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.720 I mean, I've been, I'm not saying you don't, I'm saying, I'm saying it's, you can go from 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:12.800 just that, but the broader, you know, stakeholders, including voters, I think they would, they 00:26:12.800 --> 00:26:14.920 want to see what is it we're trying to create. 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:20.920 I mean, drainage is about the least sexy thing you can say, but you know, people want to 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.400 know are there going to be public spaces in it? 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:25.040 Is it going to be like Sundance square? 00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:31.040 Is it going to be, you know, a place where there's going to be live, work, play place? 00:26:31.040 --> 00:26:36.200 Kind of like that area around Stoke, you know, what, what are we trying to make? 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:41.880 And I think, I think if we craft that there's going to be, it's a lot easier to make the 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.880 money decisions. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:43.880 You know? 00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:44.880 Yeah. 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.880 That's hard to do, Paul. 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:51.680 I guess I start, you know, people like myself start to get burnt out after having been here 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:58.080 for, you know, almost 20 years and have sat through so many dang visioning sessions that 00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:03.120 never seem to be carried forth, whether it be a change in council or a change in city 00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:08.520 management, you know, and so something just takes priority and everybody gets all their, 00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:12.960 all their priorities behind things like raise a ranch for the last 15 years. 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.440 And, you know, what has that gotten us? 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.320 We already had a crown jewel in our city and it, you know, rather than trying to recreate 00:27:21.320 --> 00:27:28.360 and put all these, these economic efforts into, you know, making a place, you know, 00:27:28.360 --> 00:27:34.280 we could have it and can still, someone just has to lead the vision. 00:27:34.280 --> 00:27:38.960 And I think the, you know, you and I've had this conversation, drainage can be more than 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:40.060 just drainage. 00:27:40.060 --> 00:27:45.040 It's unfortunate that we're, we're going to go spend millions of dollars on concrete boxes 00:27:45.040 --> 00:27:50.680 when we could have made it a drainage improvement slash park, you know, everyone's probably 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.200 heard me beat this dead horse. 00:27:53.200 --> 00:28:00.040 Drainage improvements can be economic benefits and they can be parks, right? 00:28:00.040 --> 00:28:01.040 There's plenty of pictures. 00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:06.560 I can just go grab some images of, of Riverwalk type projects, you know, where there's walking 00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:12.200 paths next to these, next to these underground boxes, you know, and so there's your, there's 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:13.200 your vision. 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.280 You get the parks, people, the trees, the, you know, and just see what happens when people 00:28:17.280 --> 00:28:24.400 put in linear parks in Dallas, it's a, they put it over a highway, right? 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.680 So y'all are saying that we have lack of vision. 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:29.640 How do we fix that? 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.220 Do we, do we hire a consultant to lead the entire thing? 00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:38.320 Do we hire a full-time downtown guru? 00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:39.320 How do you fix that? 00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:41.880 And Gerard also has had his hand raised for 20 minutes. 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:42.880 Yeah, that's right. 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:43.880 We'll just keep talking over. 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:44.880 Okay. 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:52.920 I'm sorry to interrupt you and Alex, but I do have a question for Ben, right? 00:28:52.920 --> 00:29:01.160 I think I'm gonna go way back to your point, really my question and the benefit to hear 00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:07.240 from this group is, and for those who knew, I don't think council should be here having 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:08.240 a lot of these conversations. 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.000 If you're new to the group, we get to talk about it, we'll get the vote on it later. 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.180 So I just try to listen. 00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:18.720 So I'm just updating the other group that I don't, I think this structure is a little 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:19.720 off. 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:20.720 I think we should hear from you. 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:21.720 We get to vote on it later. 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.120 We don't need to be as active in this conversation. 00:29:24.120 --> 00:29:25.400 We need to hear you. 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:30.120 And so my question to you, Ben, is what are you hearing and other business owners or people 00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:32.960 that are working actively in the downtown area? 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:39.760 So you have a place like where Juice Lab was and Legends Diner that is benefiting from, 00:29:39.760 --> 00:29:45.360 in theory, from this, in reality too, down the road, from the PEC project, but they're 00:29:45.360 --> 00:29:48.160 shut down for a year, if you will, traffic wise. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.440 Alex, you have traffic outside your front door. 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:52.440 What are you hearing? 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:59.080 So I hear a sidewalk project, it's quick, easy, generates money now for your business. 00:29:59.080 --> 00:30:03.760 So Ben, we can make it easy for people to cross the post office, get to your business, 00:30:03.760 --> 00:30:10.080 frequent your business, enhance the Bermuda Triangle, make it really nice and attractive. 00:30:10.080 --> 00:30:12.020 So and those are quick, easy turns. 00:30:12.020 --> 00:30:17.360 You saw how beneficial that sidewalk was in front of Denton County Brewery to connect 00:30:17.360 --> 00:30:18.360 to that parking lot. 00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:24.080 And so there's opportunities that are quick turnkey, compare and contrast those to me. 00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:29.760 So long term, you're shut down for a bit, but the PEC is very to faster, hey, we can 00:30:29.760 --> 00:30:35.680 get you customers now, hopefully, if we do this right. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:44.960 So to that, direct example, personal benefit to me would be to do the Mew Street project. 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:50.700 I think that that's a great, a great way that would expand the walkability around the square, 00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:56.360 it would get people off the square, not just circle in the corners. 00:30:56.360 --> 00:31:02.120 And I think that's great for yeah, the next 12 months for those individual businesses. 00:31:02.120 --> 00:31:03.240 I think that's phenomenal. 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:11.600 I would say it spike in folks wandering down my way and tell me, tell me if I'm thinking 00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:18.480 wrong in line with everybody else, though, that this this board is there to make the 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:26.680 bigger impact decisions to make, make the decisions that will change the landscape of 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:31.640 downtown overall for the next 30 years. 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:36.320 And that that's why I lean towards something like the PEC that and Alex, you can also tell 00:31:36.320 --> 00:31:40.560 me if I'm wrong in thinking about this, because I think I might be off. 00:31:40.560 --> 00:31:47.000 My thought is, if south of Denton, and to Alex's point, north of Denton, if those are 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:55.560 out of the floodplain, we will see more development, we'll see not just more development, more 00:31:55.560 --> 00:31:58.200 useful development. 00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:01.840 You know, Alex has made the comment about used car lots, nobody wants to put something 00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:05.120 in next to that, maybe it's, it's not great. 00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:13.280 But I would hope that when the land is more, is easier to develop on, it's a nicer property 00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:18.000 that's worth developing on, we'll see more of the growth that we want. 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.480 And then council can can help guide that for the next 30 years. 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:27.720 They can urge the office space to go in where El Guapo's was or so forth. 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:32.720 Well, I'll give you I'll get out of the way, but I'll give you two, I'll give you two examples, 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:39.160 Bishop Arts and West 7, those are instances where you had grassroots kind of just smaller 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:42.040 development that has just blown up. 00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:48.000 And now, if you look at Bishop Arts, the larger entities, the long term growth came because 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.780 of that kind of compartmentalized organic growth. 00:32:51.780 --> 00:32:57.400 And I think that is how you get the both you get the short term new street enhancements 00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:03.480 that then trigger the organic growth that says some giant comes in and says, Bishop Arts 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:09.200 isn't what it used to be, because it grew to a point to where larger development started 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:12.940 paying attention, and they swooped in and just bought everything. 00:33:12.940 --> 00:33:14.360 We should be so lucky. 00:33:14.360 --> 00:33:16.800 We should be so lucky as to actually have gentrification. 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:18.640 I mean, there's talk of it here. 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:19.640 It's not happening. 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:20.640 I promise. 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.440 And you have gentrification, that means you had success. 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:28.280 And then it moves on to somewhere else, which is, in theory, a good thing. 00:33:28.280 --> 00:33:32.740 We just get too many people around here get too hung up on the idea of, oh, it's getting 00:33:32.740 --> 00:33:33.740 too expensive. 00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:35.820 Oh, no, it's really not. 00:33:35.820 --> 00:33:37.520 It's not really. 00:33:37.520 --> 00:33:42.500 You're living in your own little bubble, go actually study and experience what those cities 00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:46.880 are doing and how they're involved in a TIF zone. 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:48.900 And then it works. 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.900 It works. 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:52.640 You have to spend the dollars first. 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:56.260 I think, Councilmember, you touched on something we heard from small businesses. 00:33:56.260 --> 00:34:02.400 Do you do short-term projects that drive traffic to existing businesses that may not increase 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:07.560 property values, or do you hold off for these larger catalytic projects? 00:34:07.560 --> 00:34:08.900 Those are sort of what we heard. 00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:14.480 Local retailers were very focused on, let's do lighting, let's do sidewalks, let's just 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.120 drive more traffic to my business. 00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:19.780 Other folks said, nope, infrastructure. 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:25.020 And then we heard from developers, nope, keep the money and use it for developer incentives. 00:34:25.020 --> 00:34:29.180 Because remember, a developer incentive will also have to come out of the tourist pot. 00:34:29.180 --> 00:34:36.560 So if we do PEC 4, 3, and 4, then we don't have money to incentivize projects. 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:40.280 So that's just something to think about as some additional context. 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:44.460 Those are all constituencies that each say, hey, the thing that would benefit me the most 00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:47.080 should be the highest priority I notice. 00:34:47.080 --> 00:34:53.640 I'm concerned about those constituencies, because what I'm hearing right now is, hey, 00:34:53.640 --> 00:34:59.160 the new streets would be great to drive traffic off the square. 00:34:59.160 --> 00:35:02.000 And Gerard's saying it would be great to have the organic growth. 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:10.200 My understanding since COVID happened is that really some of the barriers for organic growth 00:35:10.200 --> 00:35:15.320 that didn't have on the new streets is now gone because of things like parklets. 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.080 Then zero has happened. 00:35:17.080 --> 00:35:19.400 So there has been no organic growth now. 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:27.760 We recognize that everybody's scrambling just to keep the businesses open and just do that. 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:33.000 But it does seem a little strange to me that that's something that's been talked about 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:39.440 over and over again for five plus years, and none of that is occurring when the city has 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.560 essentially gotten out of the way and allowed that organic growth to happen. 00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:51.480 I don't have a problem with new streets, but we did one, and I don't see it's -- other 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:55.200 than it being more walkable and a nice -- and I don't think it's great. 00:35:55.200 --> 00:36:00.680 I mean, if I'm going to walk from my office to 940s, I take Cedar Street. 00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:02.980 Oftentimes I do because it's a nice walk. 00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:05.760 >> But you don't stop at any one of those stores, so what's the point? 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:10.920 >> There's nothing back there with the exception of the Thai restaurant, which really -- there's 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.920 just nothing back there. 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:15.960 There's been years for there to be economic development on the alley street, and it's not 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:16.960 really going to happen. 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.640 And I think we have to be okay with that. 00:36:19.640 --> 00:36:24.520 There's a benefit to doing street improvements, but don't expect necessarily those streets 00:36:24.520 --> 00:36:31.520 to have, you know, all this, you know, walkability and -- well, we're going to have walkability, 00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:37.280 but to have this vibrant streetscape of retail, it's just -- it's not going to happen. 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.760 >> I think it would be better to have more bodies than more space for the few bodies 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:46.720 that we have downtown right now to get places, but more bodies would be better. 00:36:46.720 --> 00:36:47.720 >> Right. 00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:52.160 >> Which approach equates to more bodies to you? 00:36:52.160 --> 00:37:01.160 >> Well, I think you have to make way to allow for development of places -- I mean, I particularly, 00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:07.400 because I live downtown, I -- property owned downtown, people beg me for more properties 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:08.400 downtown. 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.640 I mean, you can't imagine the number of people. 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:19.080 I think that if we had a bunch of empty nested adults with a one-car garage living downtown, 00:37:19.080 --> 00:37:21.640 that there would be more people going to Ben's shop. 00:37:21.640 --> 00:37:27.920 >> Are you saying do the drainage to have the housing so those people would be there? 00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:28.920 Is that where you're -- 00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.720 >> Or office, housing or office, they both contribute. 00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:41.960 >> I think housing is a bigger thing now because office is a little bit iffy with COVID, but 00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.440 I think bodies is important, whether it's office or -- 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:49.080 >> I mean, Paul, this is not an -- I'm not being an advocate for my own project, quite 00:37:49.080 --> 00:37:50.080 frankly. 00:37:50.080 --> 00:37:57.200 I'm glad that we didn't do it based on what's going on, but we tried tirelessly to redevelop 00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.040 the gas station next to my building. 00:38:00.040 --> 00:38:02.480 Melissa has seen the renderings. 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:09.240 And because of the floodplain and other code issues and inability to be flexible, we couldn't 00:38:09.240 --> 00:38:10.240 do it. 00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:17.100 We couldn't build a really good-looking urban redevelopment, taking and repurposing an old 00:38:17.100 --> 00:38:20.240 gas station, keeping it and adding a new building to it. 00:38:20.240 --> 00:38:22.320 We couldn't do it, right? 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:26.160 And the floodplain contributed most, and then as soon as we thought we had a solution to 00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:31.480 that, then it was like, oh, you can't have parking in front of the building. 00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.720 We're only having it there because it exists there today, and we're just trying to repurpose 00:38:35.720 --> 00:38:36.720 the old building. 00:38:36.720 --> 00:38:40.600 I mean, it's maddening, to be honest. 00:38:40.600 --> 00:38:51.440 >> Well, you know, Todd has consistently, on other issues, said to me, tell us clearly 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:57.400 what you want, and we'll figure out a way to bring the resources to it. 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:04.240 You know, if you don't have completely, you know, crazy, wacky priorities, you know, but 00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:08.240 just can be very clear about your priorities, we'll bring the tools to bear. 00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:17.400 I mean, I've seen it on numerous other fronts, and that's why I kind of go back to if it's 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:23.560 drainage and what it could create, I mean, I think I want to kind of put the question 00:39:23.560 --> 00:39:29.640 to Jessica, like, what resources do you think could be brought to bear to flesh out the 00:39:29.640 --> 00:39:37.880 picture of literally the picture of what that all could be? 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:43.320 And everything, you know, I'm on board really with everything you said, Alex, and I know 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:50.160 Ben, you were supporting in terms of, like, the linear paths on the drainage. 00:39:50.160 --> 00:39:57.120 You know, it's kind of, in my mind, it's office and housing or, you know, live workplace space. 00:39:57.120 --> 00:40:03.760 So it's office and housing, probably retail, and it's got to have some very compelling 00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.760 public spaces. 00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:10.320 You know, part of why the square works is it's a designed environment, you know, and 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:14.600 it's not just organic, it's a square with a park in your life. 00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:15.600 Sense of place. 00:40:15.600 --> 00:40:16.600 Exactly. 00:40:16.600 --> 00:40:23.600 So, you know, it should, in my mind, it should somehow feel like an extension off the square 00:40:23.600 --> 00:40:26.440 experience that adds to it. 00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:32.240 I think often, not to copycat, but just as an example, you talk about Bishop Arts is 00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:38.560 a good one, but I think of Sundance Square, you know, where they've got great public spaces, 00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:45.120 a water feature, you know, so there's a reason to gather, and then all the stuff around it 00:40:45.120 --> 00:40:46.120 is hopping. 00:40:46.120 --> 00:40:52.160 I mean, I do live next door to a park that the city bought that has not developed into 00:40:52.160 --> 00:41:03.160 anything except for often a homeless space to be, and I'm not anti-public spaces. 00:41:03.160 --> 00:41:10.560 I do like the focus in Denton of the square, and bleeding that focus out on a public space, 00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:16.160 I'm not an expert in that, but I'm not sure that that's the best thing either. 00:41:16.160 --> 00:41:21.960 I would disagree in that a really, really well-planned city, going back hundreds of 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:28.000 years ago to either today, they probably have nice public spaces that are connected with 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.160 good walkable connections, right? 00:41:30.160 --> 00:41:31.160 Walkable, bikeable. 00:41:31.160 --> 00:41:36.000 I mean, Savannah, Georgia, that I spent, you know, it's an old city that I went through 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:40.760 this summer, and they have square after square, not one square, square after square after 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:45.920 square in which the homes surround or the offices surround those squares, and then good 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:52.520 streets to walk to connect those places, and so, you know, sure, we could combine drainage 00:41:52.520 --> 00:41:59.720 dollars, but you could do some cleanup by city using park funds to acquire, you know, 00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:05.840 parcels that really need to go away, you know, and then create a little pocket park here 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.600 and a pocket park here, and then do those along the drainage. 00:42:09.600 --> 00:42:12.400 I mean, they're buying up properties now. 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.720 They bought one on South, right down on South Elm and Locust, and they're using it right 00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:21.680 now for construction staging, but there was a time in which they put a sign on it to sell 00:42:21.680 --> 00:42:24.080 it, and I don't think anybody bought it. 00:42:24.080 --> 00:42:29.320 I know it would seem really strange, but hey, future public, you know, pocket park, right? 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:34.080 And then there's a drainage channel that connects to the next one, and there's a, you know, 00:42:34.080 --> 00:42:38.920 and then good walkable connections to the square, and then just, you know, craft a development 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:43.520 policy in which, yeah, we want to see redevelopment, but we want it to form in an urban manner 00:42:43.520 --> 00:42:47.360 around these linear or pocket parks. 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.400 I think it's tremendous. 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:57.320 In agreement, but part of why I threw some of that square into the mix is it's an urban 00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.480 public space that's not green, they're not all necessarily green. 00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:02.920 No. 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:14.260 What about, Jessica, what about bringing in just images to this group of other cities 00:43:14.260 --> 00:43:26.640 that have examples that might be inspired, that Melissa and Ben and Alex, you know, can 00:43:26.640 --> 00:43:32.080 see them and go, yeah, that something like that, but combined with that feels like them. 00:43:32.080 --> 00:43:35.640 Sure, we all have that vision. 00:43:35.640 --> 00:43:38.760 I don't know that more vision needs to be weighed here. 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:46.640 I think this says there needs to be a expansion of the vision, and I mean, Jessica, please 00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:50.240 follow up with what Paul asked for, which is providing images. 00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:52.040 I'm not saying don't. 00:43:52.040 --> 00:43:55.760 I just don't think that this group or the four people on this board right now that are 00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:01.360 here have a lack of vision of what Denton could look like. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:05.840 So I will remind everyone that we do have visioning plans. 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:10.720 To Alex's point, is there have been many discussions about downtown. 00:44:10.720 --> 00:44:14.880 There's the downtown implementation plan, the downtown master plan, the TURS plan. 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:17.840 They all have to work together. 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:22.600 And so if you refer to the project plan and the TURS and its creation, why was the TURS 00:44:22.600 --> 00:44:23.600 put in place? 00:44:23.600 --> 00:44:28.640 It specifically says to accelerate redevelopment and generate new development. 00:44:28.640 --> 00:44:35.480 And that's why the focus has been on the projects that we feel will do that the best, given 00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:37.840 the limitations that are put on the TURS. 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.960 So the funding cap, the area, and those things. 00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:44.780 And that's why the focus of this discussion is specifically on those projects. 00:44:44.780 --> 00:44:48.560 It's not to discount the bigger visioning discussions. 00:44:48.560 --> 00:44:50.320 I think those are important. 00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:51.800 I think that they are valuable. 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.120 I think downtown is something that -- you're right, Melissa. 00:44:55.120 --> 00:45:00.600 We all have a vision that is, you know, very inclusive of a downtown that is something 00:45:00.600 --> 00:45:04.400 more than what it is today, and it's already wonderful. 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:10.320 But speaking specifically to the TURS and the charge of this board and the project plan 00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:17.640 as it exists today, now it is able to be amended, it specifically called out to focus on redevelopment 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:19.120 and accelerating growth. 00:45:19.120 --> 00:45:25.240 And so what projects does this board feel like accomplishes that goal? 00:45:25.240 --> 00:45:29.840 And if it's ultimately not that goal that this board wants to focus on, is there an 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:35.760 amendment to the project plan or to the financing plan that will bring the vision of what this 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.780 tool can do to fruition? 00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:43.960 And so I want to kind of reframe the discussion around the TURS itself and not just a general 00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:48.880 downtown visioning, because I think we can go look at those plans and see those plans 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:51.800 encapsulate the vision that we have. 00:45:51.800 --> 00:46:00.340 But what can this funding mechanism do to take the step in that direction? 00:46:00.340 --> 00:46:06.040 >> If you don't mind, Melissa and Alex, assuming you all paid for the infrastructure project 00:46:06.040 --> 00:46:11.780 and there was no money left, right, it's used up, do you -- what percent of projects going 00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:17.840 forward do you think are going to come look for some type of incentive from the city? 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:21.960 So I think one thing to think about is if you pay for this project, that's great, it's 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:27.520 needed, but now there may not be any funding to assist those catalytic projects unless 00:46:27.520 --> 00:46:29.680 the city comes up with another source. 00:46:29.680 --> 00:46:38.000 So what are your thoughts about the tradeoff between that versus developer incentives? 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:42.480 >> I mean, developers are always going to ask and claim they need incentives, you know. 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.600 I am one, so I'll speak to that. 00:46:44.600 --> 00:46:48.880 In some cases, it's absolutely necessary. 00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:52.680 In some cases, it just helps make the project more profitable, right? 00:46:52.680 --> 00:47:00.000 And that can, you know -- but there are some in which you can have all the vision you want, 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:03.440 but the market realities just aren't there, right? 00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:11.240 And so if you spend all this money and nothing happened, that would, you know, be unfortunate. 00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:13.360 I don't think it would be true, though. 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:21.440 I think there are ways to -- the city can incent without even having to, you know, give 00:47:21.440 --> 00:47:23.840 away their tax dollars, so to speak, you know. 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:30.760 They can incent with density bonuses or, you know, be more flexible on a setback or, you 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.920 know, those are ways you can incent through planning efforts and not through actually 00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.120 a shell out of city funding. 00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:40.280 So a developer just needs a rate of return. 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:45.560 If you put some kind of limitation on them and then it's like, well, then I can't build 00:47:45.560 --> 00:47:50.160 enough units to make that profitable, you know, then they go away. 00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:55.960 Again, this is -- I don't have specific, you know, diagram, but I just -- I read an article 00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:01.680 in ULI years ago about West Campus in Austin and how they encouraged redevelopment and they 00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:03.140 did it through density bonuses. 00:48:03.140 --> 00:48:08.760 They got developers to actually pay for some infrastructure that, you know, created the 00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:13.240 vision or the streetscape or that they wanted, so the city didn't have to pay for it. 00:48:13.240 --> 00:48:17.880 The developer paid for it, but if you'll do this for us, we'll let you go more dense than 00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.600 what is allowed in the code currently. 00:48:20.600 --> 00:48:26.840 So those are examples of incentives that you just need to be creative, you know. 00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:30.280 And so -- but if there's a floodplain there, no one's doing anything. 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:35.240 >> Well, I think probably, and Travis, you might already have the answer to this, but 00:48:35.240 --> 00:48:44.360 per square foot or per square mile, dealing with PEC 2 and 3 as an economic incentive, 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.080 what dollar amount can you allocate towards that? 00:48:47.080 --> 00:48:54.520 So like for instance, Alex's development project that didn't happen, he would have had to pay 00:48:54.520 --> 00:48:59.760 for X to get it out of the floodplain and X in insurance and X in development costs because 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:01.400 it was in the floodplain. 00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:09.800 And what costs are you taking away by using TERS funds to not have a floodplain where 00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:11.520 somebody wants to develop? 00:49:11.520 --> 00:49:13.960 >> Sure, no, that makes sense. 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:18.800 I was thinking, you know, said differently, is the infrastructure project a sufficient 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:23.520 enough incentive that they don't need something else, which is another way to get at it? 00:49:23.520 --> 00:49:29.000 And the second is what about other areas of the TERS that aren't impacted by the floodplain 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:33.360 that may come back and say it's great you did a floodplain, but I'm on the north side 00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:37.920 of the square and I need X? 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.000 There may not be any money for those projects. 00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:42.800 Just was kind of pointing out that trade-off. 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:47.440 >> Yeah, and I understand part two and three of that. 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:55.200 And I just guess I can't speak to it because I, you know, I think that if we made it developable 00:49:55.200 --> 00:50:01.080 and got out of the way, then it would develop in a natural way. 00:50:01.080 --> 00:50:08.160 Some people might come ask for money, but they won't unless there's a reason to even 00:50:08.160 --> 00:50:09.160 start. 00:50:09.160 --> 00:50:20.040 >> I guess I could ask Jessica the question of if you can speak to it, I mean, there's 00:50:20.040 --> 00:50:25.960 property that's been acquired, I believe, the Trinity property, is there, you know, 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:31.200 it's not in the floodplain, to my knowledge, so I'm guessing they would need incentives 00:50:31.200 --> 00:50:32.320 to develop that. 00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:38.000 Are there other things that people have come forth and said we need besides drainage improvements 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.000 to make? 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:44.200 >> I heard they stopped, Alex, just because of COVID and they didn't want to construct 00:50:44.200 --> 00:50:49.560 -- because they had a goal in mind of how much per square foot they wanted for the -- their 00:50:49.560 --> 00:50:52.720 apartments and they couldn't get it during COVID, so they stopped. 00:50:52.720 --> 00:50:57.000 >> Yeah, I figured that was the case, but I also figured they're probably asking for 00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.680 some type of incentive, but I bet you they could do it without it. 00:51:00.680 --> 00:51:11.040 >> Specifically to that, yes, Alex, there will be an ask, and I've talked to them generally 00:51:11.040 --> 00:51:16.720 about a -- and there's some growth there, potential to some other buildings outside 00:51:16.720 --> 00:51:21.240 of that footprint that they're looking at to leverage that ask, and I have some thoughts 00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:26.960 about -- along the rail trail that I've discussed with them, and I'll take it a step further. 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.800 I'm putting this notice out to any developer on the planet. 00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:33.960 If you want to start looking at that ready-mix plant in the middle of our city, I'm willing 00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:41.160 to absolutely break the bank to get them out of there. 00:51:41.160 --> 00:51:42.160 >> That's good. 00:51:42.160 --> 00:51:43.160 That's good. 00:51:43.160 --> 00:51:44.160 That's good leadership. 00:51:44.160 --> 00:51:51.480 >> To Alex's point, yes, we have pretty consistent discussions with developers, though, not just 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:57.080 that project, but other projects that have come to us, and there have been a pretty small 00:51:57.080 --> 00:52:01.920 set of consistent issues, drainage is one, both on the south side and the north side 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:03.360 of downtown. 00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:07.720 We know that those are clear, so any type of acquisition of property or redevelopment, 00:52:07.720 --> 00:52:14.720 those are challenging, and then just older infrastructure, you know, are the -- is water 00:52:14.720 --> 00:52:16.220 and wastewater sufficient? 00:52:16.220 --> 00:52:20.880 Are existing lines going to have to be relocated because they've been there for so long and 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.440 it doesn't make sense for a new layout? 00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:26.280 That's certainly an issue that we've looked at. 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:31.720 When we were even talking about redeveloping the parking lot on exposition, there's a wastewater 00:52:31.720 --> 00:52:37.720 line that runs diagonal through that, so even when we were going to just reconstruct a parking 00:52:37.720 --> 00:52:43.000 lot, that became an expensive endeavor because an old piece of infrastructure is still there. 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:48.480 So we do see consistent themes in downtown, regardless of what type of development it 00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:58.640 is, certainly code and trying to be consistent and yet flexible is sometimes a challenge. 00:52:58.640 --> 00:53:03.600 And so we hear that, definitely feedback that we can take back and talk to our development 00:53:03.600 --> 00:53:08.800 team and say let's start having a bigger conversation about what we can do in downtown. 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:13.680 If we do have a vision for a particular type of development, what can we be looking at 00:53:13.680 --> 00:53:19.200 in the downtown standards and where those apply and where those don't apply as growth 00:53:19.200 --> 00:53:20.200 occurs? 00:53:20.200 --> 00:53:25.080 I think that's valuable feedback that we can take back and start having those discussions 00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:29.160 of getting more creative in terms of what we do on the development side. 00:53:29.160 --> 00:53:36.640 I think that's not something that had been brought up before directly, so I put two stars 00:53:36.640 --> 00:53:43.920 by it, Alex, to go have that discussion of what we can do and get more creative because 00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:49.960 we are limited and this is our tool that we're choosing to use for many, many projects here. 00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.760 So what other opportunities do we have to get creative? 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.520 So I think those are all great. 00:53:55.520 --> 00:54:01.560 I do want to say the goal today would be to get the board's recommendations that we can 00:54:01.560 --> 00:54:02.680 take back to council. 00:54:02.680 --> 00:54:09.560 So just to clarify what I'm hearing is there's a preference for the drainage project. 00:54:09.560 --> 00:54:15.800 There's a preference to extend the TURS boundary to be inclusive of that entire project, but 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:22.740 there's also a want to consider amending the term or the cap to give the TURS flexibility 00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:25.920 in the future to do maybe some of these other projects. 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:30.520 And if I am wrong on any of that, please correct me, but I want to make sure that I get a clear 00:54:30.520 --> 00:54:34.640 direction to take forward to city council. 00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:40.720 I think to that last point, I think if you, for me, and everyone can call me down on that, 00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:48.560 but if we are unable to extend it the amount or the time, then I think that this project 00:54:48.560 --> 00:54:51.320 shouldn't eat up all of the money. 00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:58.760 And so a shared expense, 80/20, 70/30 expense with the city I think would be appropriate. 00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:04.240 I mean, we have to recognize that anything that does happen downtown affects the entire 00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:05.240 city. 00:55:05.240 --> 00:55:10.360 And to neglect that point I think is not positive. 00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:14.960 And just to be clear, now that I see David's on the Zoom, you don't have to extend the 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:19.440 cap to be able to have enough money to pay for PEC three and four. 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:23.120 So to pay for that project, just so everyone's clear, you'd have to expand the boundary and 00:55:23.120 --> 00:55:27.960 there should be enough time to generate the 2021 million dollars with interest you need. 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:33.680 You would need to expand the cap if you wanted to have additional funds to be able to pay 00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:36.160 for things other than that project. 00:55:36.160 --> 00:55:37.560 Is that clear with everybody? 00:55:37.560 --> 00:55:42.480 You got to expand the boundary and you have enough time to pay for three and four, he'll 00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:43.640 double check. 00:55:43.640 --> 00:55:49.280 But if you want to pay for other things, you would also have to expand the cap and potentially 00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:50.680 the time. 00:55:50.680 --> 00:55:54.320 And I think with that note, if we are going to go to council, and I don't remember who 00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:00.120 said it, is it needs to be a clear plan, if we're going to make a request to expand the 00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:07.320 term and the cap, I think we need to have a relook at the project plan and specifically 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:11.440 and get more specific about here are the projects we're going to do and here's the funds that 00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.180 we're going to put towards them. 00:56:13.180 --> 00:56:16.760 So that to Alex's point, because I remember Alex saying this, that it's not 10 years down 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:19.880 the road and we're having the same conversation again. 00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:26.960 So let's get very specific about which projects and start moving forward. 00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:32.880 I did say that it was also about if we're going to do this, why not do the north, whatever 00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:40.720 you're calling, PEC Northside, fund it in a similar way. 00:56:40.720 --> 00:56:49.840 So next step, we need to discuss with council expansion of the boundaries and then expansion 00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:53.560 of the time and the cap. 00:56:53.560 --> 00:56:56.200 And that would be the impact on downtown overall, right? 00:56:56.200 --> 00:57:06.800 Well, I think Jessica is saying, if I may, that expanding the time and the cap would 00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:12.720 be only if there are other things on the list in addition to PEC that you say, you know, 00:57:12.720 --> 00:57:16.560 we want to put on the shopping list. 00:57:16.560 --> 00:57:23.680 Okay, so not just give us time so we can see what else pops up. 00:57:23.680 --> 00:57:24.680 Not that. 00:57:24.680 --> 00:57:25.680 Well, yeah, yeah. 00:57:25.680 --> 00:57:31.560 If it's just PEC, then it's expand that the geography, if it's other things, we need to 00:57:31.560 --> 00:57:34.480 say what specifically you want. 00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:40.600 And then that that would be met by expanding time and cap. 00:57:40.600 --> 00:57:41.600 Okay. 00:57:41.600 --> 00:57:43.760 That's what I'm hearing. 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:44.760 Yes. 00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:45.760 Thank you. 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:51.560 I said it like this. 00:57:51.560 --> 00:57:56.800 I do think that, and I don't mean to speak for the two council members that are here, 00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.520 but I do think going to city council with not just a, we want to, we're recommending 00:58:01.520 --> 00:58:06.840 extending the term and cap and we don't really have a plan why, it's more effective of an 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:13.400 argument to say, here are the specific things that we think we'd like council to consider 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:19.600 and to move forward with that will help us reframe the project plan and make the amendments 00:58:19.600 --> 00:58:20.600 necessary. 00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:25.160 It then allows us to do the estimates and the fiscal impacts and economic impacts needed 00:58:25.160 --> 00:58:27.640 for the finance plan amendment. 00:58:27.640 --> 00:58:34.880 And so the I'm not saying we can't be inflexible in the future, but some specificity on if 00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:40.480 it is, we want to continue the goal of developer development acceleration. 00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:46.320 Is it public infrastructure with the secondary goal being incentivizing some sort of development 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:53.200 in the future, or is it the incentives we can get there some other way. 00:58:53.200 --> 00:58:59.040 So we'd rather reserve some funds in the future for some of these smaller short term projects. 00:58:59.040 --> 00:59:04.680 Remember the downtown grants are funded through this sidewalk sliding, those sorts of things 00:59:04.680 --> 00:59:06.680 that should development occur in the future. 00:59:06.680 --> 00:59:13.360 We can help develop the pathways, the sidewalks, the lighting that gets the pedestrian activity 00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:20.800 to those different kind of economic centers. 00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:27.000 One that I feel really strongly about is the downtown grants. 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:32.120 That scares me that that's only here now. 00:59:32.120 --> 00:59:36.000 I don't know how anybody else feels, but I would like to see that continue. 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:40.120 And that's one of the things that scares me if we spend all this money that there are 00:59:40.120 --> 00:59:43.560 no incentives for small businesses to come downtown anymore. 00:59:43.560 --> 00:59:53.720 And no incentives for them to fix their drainage or to fix their facade that will only see 00:59:53.720 --> 00:59:57.420 big development roll through downtown. 00:59:57.420 --> 01:00:07.640 I would also like to ask if TXP, Travis, are helping to sort of craft the finance part 01:00:07.640 --> 01:00:13.480 of what we are pitching to council. 01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:20.120 Yeah, I think I'm helping work on getting that request to city council. 01:00:20.120 --> 01:00:21.120 That's part of my task. 01:00:21.120 --> 01:00:26.920 But I think, Ben, therein lies the question, and Jessica said this too, what's the number 01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:30.840 we're trying to come up with, which then helps make the financing plan easier? 01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:35.160 Because if you remember on an earlier slide, the percent contribution goes down over time 01:00:35.160 --> 01:00:36.160 too. 01:00:36.160 --> 01:00:41.480 So I think trying to identify the projects you all want to fund helps frame how long 01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:46.440 you want to extend or how long the request is to extend the tourist. 01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:50.380 And then that helps finance figure out maybe if the tourist is extended in the cat, maybe 01:00:50.380 --> 01:00:55.040 they can finance things differently so you have some short-term funding available to 01:00:55.040 --> 01:00:57.120 pay for grants and other things. 01:00:57.120 --> 01:00:59.400 All that will tie together. 01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:03.720 And I saw Gerard had his hand up. 01:01:03.720 --> 01:01:09.680 Yeah, I'm going to do it again. 01:01:09.680 --> 01:01:11.760 I have a meeting I have to get to. 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:12.760 I didn't expect that. 01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:18.960 I mean, I have a lot of thoughts about this, and I'm sorry, but, man, good night. 01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:21.920 Yeah, I'm not going to say anything un-port. 01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:23.960 I'll just say I got to do it again. 01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:26.560 So how close are we? 01:01:26.560 --> 01:01:29.080 You need a vote? 01:01:29.080 --> 01:01:30.080 Did you get your direction? 01:01:30.080 --> 01:01:32.360 There's no vote. 01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:34.760 I think you summarized it well. 01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:35.760 Yeah. 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.640 Okay, so I just need clarification on one point. 01:01:39.640 --> 01:01:46.960 If we were going to kind of rank the project, so we want PEC is kind of the priority, then 01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:52.640 to raise the cap or change the term, what is the secondary incentives or sort of the 01:01:52.640 --> 01:01:55.000 smaller public infrastructure projects? 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:56.200 How would you rank those? 01:01:56.200 --> 01:02:01.560 I think there's other ways to achieve incentives, but that's my policy. 01:02:01.560 --> 01:02:02.560 That's my position. 01:02:02.560 --> 01:02:03.560 Okay. 01:02:03.560 --> 01:02:07.760 So maybe the smaller infrastructure projects and then incentives, if possible. 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:08.760 Sure. 01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:12.280 It's easier for the public to support you, frankly. 01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:13.280 Sure. 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:14.280 Okay. 01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:15.280 What about news streams? 01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:26.200 I'm curious to know if others are interested as well in Alex's point about looking at the 01:02:26.200 --> 01:02:32.320 north of the square drainage opportunity as well. 01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:38.720 I'd be interested in, might be sort of outside of the scope of what we can talk about here. 01:02:38.720 --> 01:02:39.720 I don't know. 01:02:39.720 --> 01:02:48.320 I'd love to sort of say the total tab for laying the foundation for a greater downtown 01:02:48.320 --> 01:03:00.880 dentin includes north and south of the square drainage, Jessica, your point, and XYZ infrastructure 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:02.680 that needs to be upgraded, right? 01:03:02.680 --> 01:03:08.680 If you did all that, you would have the foundation for the greater downtown dentin. 01:03:08.680 --> 01:03:09.680 What's that cost? 01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:10.680 And solve for X. 01:03:10.680 --> 01:03:20.800 A very large number, but I bet we can try and estimate, we can get with capital projects 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:25.600 and try and estimate some of those project costs just to get a ballpark figure. 01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:26.600 Sorry? 01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:31.440 Bring in parks to the discussion. 01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:32.440 Parks. 01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:39.560 It'd be very interesting once you stare that right in the face to then go, well, how would 01:03:39.560 --> 01:03:41.760 you finance something like that? 01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:45.000 What partnerships would be involved with grants? 01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:48.960 If it's compelling enough, this is kind of where it started from before, I wasn't trying 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:52.600 to necessarily take us off in a wacky different direction, especially if it's already done, 01:03:52.600 --> 01:04:05.080 if it's a compelling enough goal, you're more likely to try to figure out how to get there. 01:04:05.080 --> 01:04:11.440 I just want to make sure that we're all in agreement on the direction as the board has 01:04:11.440 --> 01:04:19.520 kind of laid it out, and if so, our next steps, David, Travis, and I will probably regroup, 01:04:19.520 --> 01:04:24.120 talk through the work that needs to be done. 01:04:24.120 --> 01:04:31.120 Our original plan was to go to council probably in December, and so I'm not sure if that will 01:04:31.120 --> 01:04:36.080 require this board to meet again to finalize any of the details, so we'll probably need 01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:40.920 to talk about that and then get back with you guys. 01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:45.720 But I think we have our direction, at least to get started on, and I think the heavy lifting 01:04:45.720 --> 01:04:48.520 of this part of the project. 01:04:48.520 --> 01:04:53.360 Are we ready to move on to 1C? 01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:58.480 Anybody have anything else to add before I move to 1C? 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:02.240 The next order of business is 1C, consider canceling the regularly scheduled November 01:05:02.240 --> 01:05:07.000 25th, 2020 meeting due to the Thanksgiving holiday and calling a specially called meeting. 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:08.000 Jessica? 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:17.440 Yes, so as you may know, the next meeting occurs on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, 01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:23.520 and so I imagine in a normal year, many people would have travel plans and may not be in 01:05:23.520 --> 01:05:29.240 town, but we definitely wanted to give the board the option of considering either changing 01:05:29.240 --> 01:05:33.940 the date of that meeting or just canceling that meeting, and we can certainly call a 01:05:33.940 --> 01:05:37.240 special called meeting if needed. 01:05:37.240 --> 01:05:41.780 Like I said, I think we'll probably have to regroup to figure out what our gaps in knowledge 01:05:41.780 --> 01:05:48.040 are as it related to the previous item, and if we'll need to come back to the board again, 01:05:48.040 --> 01:05:51.600 so up to you guys. 01:05:51.600 --> 01:05:53.660 We're flexible. 01:05:53.660 --> 01:05:55.560 Who is here for that date? 01:05:55.560 --> 01:05:59.520 Ben, are you here that date? 01:05:59.520 --> 01:06:00.520 I am. 01:06:00.520 --> 01:06:01.520 I don't go anywhere. 01:06:01.520 --> 01:06:03.360 Alex, are you here? 01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.400 What's the date? 01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:07.060 November 25th. 01:06:07.060 --> 01:06:08.680 The day before Thanksgiving. 01:06:08.680 --> 01:06:11.680 I won't be around. 01:06:11.680 --> 01:06:20.440 So Jessica, if you were to say a date that would be more in line with what you're presenting 01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:25.560 to council that you might have to revisit with us again, what would be a better date? 01:06:25.560 --> 01:06:31.920 I would just say sometime before the 25th, so if we needed to look at, I know city council 01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:40.800 is not meeting on the 24th, so I believe that the room might be available, and then last 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:42.840 year we moved it to the week before. 01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:48.760 That's a little bit more of a challenge now that we're limited in terms of one room and 01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:54.600 DTV production, so I'd have to double check, but it would probably be the week before. 01:06:54.600 --> 01:06:59.000 Would everybody be good with Jessica distributing a couple of ideas for new dates? 01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:00.000 Sure. 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:01.000 Good? 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:02.000 Yeah. 01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:06.160 The week before might be a little hard for me because we're finalizing the virtual beer 01:07:06.160 --> 01:07:14.760 fest that week, so I'm going to be doing what I do and just on conference calls nonstop. 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:19.960 But yeah, early November, that's fine. 01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:25.280 Would we do it this way, or Jessica, are you talking about having us all in the same room? 01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:32.800 We will be doing Zoom meetings at least through the end of the year, and then we'll reevaluate. 01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:39.360 All right, so I think Jessica, if you could just distribute some new dates based on what 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:40.360 you've heard today. 01:07:40.360 --> 01:07:43.440 Next order of business is 1D receive staff activity report. 01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:46.760 The chair recognizes Christina Davis. 01:07:46.760 --> 01:07:52.360 I hope I'll be joining you in November, by the way. 01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:55.520 Fair enough. 01:07:55.520 --> 01:08:00.120 Just really quick, we'll go through these so that we can finish up on time. 01:08:00.120 --> 01:08:02.200 On openings, we did have TB wins. 01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:08.200 They actually moved out of their upstairs loft area and into a new retail site, 222 01:08:08.200 --> 01:08:10.280 West Hickory Street. 01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:15.280 We have a new market in downtown that's called Mashed Up Market, and what they are is a vegan 01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:16.560 grocery store. 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:20.640 So if that's something you're into, you might want to check them out. 01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:23.280 Circa 77 is closing. 01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:28.080 They still have their store closing banner hanging up above their store, so check them 01:08:28.080 --> 01:08:31.160 out before they're gone. 01:08:31.160 --> 01:08:34.540 And then coming soon, we have H2 Oak. 01:08:34.540 --> 01:08:40.800 Last I heard that they are still just finishing up some things and just waiting for COVID. 01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:45.560 Caskeys at 311 North Elm did a little searching on that. 01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:50.520 They have lots of permits out, but I haven't seen any work, and I'm not sure what the stall 01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:51.520 is. 01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:53.520 I haven't had any response back from them. 01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:58.640 More Fun Toys is moving into the previous Mad World Records, and so you see they have 01:08:58.640 --> 01:08:59.640 some covering on the windows. 01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:01.480 They're still working on that space. 01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:08.520 As far as our downtown grants, I did reach out to Chai Dao, and he's still working on 01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:09.760 his building. 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:14.040 I haven't not seen a final CO yet, but last I heard he's still talking about putting in 01:09:14.040 --> 01:09:19.640 a burger restaurant there with his son. 01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:25.240 On the update for the COVID-19 response and recovery, the parklet and streetlets were 01:09:25.240 --> 01:09:30.960 approved, but not directly on the square, so off the square those are allowed. 01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:31.960 There's been some interest. 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:36.080 I know of a couple businesses that have inquired, but I haven't seen any permits or anything 01:09:36.080 --> 01:09:39.520 issued for those yet and haven't seen anything go into place. 01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:44.680 We did have the 15-minute parking installed around the square with a request to go in 01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:50.600 some other locations off the square, but so far it's worked out really well, and everyone's 01:09:50.600 --> 01:09:57.400 enjoying it and appreciating the convenience of that for deliveries and things. 01:09:57.400 --> 01:10:01.160 The city did do a survey, and we held two stakeholder meetings to gather feedback from 01:10:01.160 --> 01:10:06.680 downtown businesses and stakeholders regarding improvements or accommodations that can be 01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:09.000 mailed made to help them. 01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:15.120 We do have weekly emails that go out to downtown, and I do get some responses back and questions, 01:10:15.120 --> 01:10:18.520 and it's nice to be able to provide the answers to those. 01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:24.200 We're open to other ideas, and we're encouraging everyone to share their ideas and giving us 01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:29.280 examples of other things that are successful, so we're always looking to the Texas Main 01:10:29.280 --> 01:10:34.040 Street and other cities to see what some of their new practices are and how we can implement 01:10:34.040 --> 01:10:35.040 that here. 01:10:35.040 --> 01:10:40.120 As far as upcoming events, there are no events. 01:10:40.120 --> 01:10:45.040 There were some listed last month, but those have already passed, and Twilight Tunes went 01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:53.080 really well, and the Arts and Autos had a new format with drive-throughs, and we just 01:10:53.080 --> 01:10:57.760 received an email from them saying that they've been asked to extend that and do a couple 01:10:57.760 --> 01:11:00.520 more weekends, so they're working on that right now as well. 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:05.520 Then, of course, we've already discussed the next meeting date, so that's all I have. 01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:07.600 Thank you, Christina. 01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:09.040 You're welcome. 01:11:09.040 --> 01:11:11.960 The final order of business is number two, concluding items. 01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:14.840 Is there any business to discuss? 01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:19.400 Raise your hand if you'd like to discuss any further business. 01:11:19.400 --> 01:11:24.100 This was an exciting conversation. 01:11:24.100 --> 01:11:28.480 I definitely appreciate TXP's, Travis's input. 01:11:28.480 --> 01:11:29.480 Thank you, Travis. 01:11:29.480 --> 01:11:32.320 I should have said that before you sort of blocked out. 01:11:32.320 --> 01:11:33.320 Thank you. 01:11:33.320 --> 01:11:34.320 You're welcome. 01:11:34.320 --> 01:11:35.320 Thank you. 01:11:35.320 --> 01:11:42.040 If there's no other business, the regular meeting is adjourned at 1014 a.m. 01:11:42.040 --> 01:11:43.600 Thank you all very much. 01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:44.600 Bye. 01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:49.580 [ Silence ]