1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,060 We have determined that a quorum has been met. 2 00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:14,680 The downtown Denton tax increment finance reinvestment zone number one board of the 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,760 city of Denton Texas will now convene in a regular meeting at 12.04 p.m. this Wednesday, 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,960 the 23rd day of September 2020. 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,600 Our first order of business is 1A to consider approval and our corrections of the meeting 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,900 minutes from the July 23rd, 2020 downtown Denton TIF reinvestment zone number one board 7 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:35,780 of the city of Denton Texas. 8 00:00:35,780 --> 00:00:41,960 Are there any corrections to the minutes as distributed? 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Do we have a motion? 10 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,360 Motion to approve. 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,360 Was that a first and a second? 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,360 Gerard is the first. 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,200 Was that Alex as a second? 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,400 Alex first, Gerard second. 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:01,400 Okay. 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,920 So we have a motion and a second. 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,240 All those in favor of adopting the motion say aye. 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,240 Aye. 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,360 Those opposed say no. 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,640 Melissa, could you please go around the horn? 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,640 Yep. 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,440 Thank you. 23 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,200 Ben approve or opposed? 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Approve. 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:21,200 Paul? 26 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Approve. 27 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,200 Alex? 28 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,720 Approve. 29 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,600 Gerard? 30 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,520 Approve. 31 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,420 Melissa approve. 32 00:01:34,420 --> 00:01:38,440 The motion passes by unanimous vote. 33 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,680 The next order of business is to receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:46,680 direction regarding the downtown Denton TIF reinvestment zone number one study and analysis 35 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,880 being conducted by TXP Inc. 36 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:57,120 Melissa also before I hand it over, I guess, am I handing it to you, Christina? 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,800 It will be Erica. 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:02,800 Okay. 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,680 I just wanted to really just say thanks for staff for putting this together and I think 40 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,680 it's terrific. 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,120 We just really appreciate the work being done on this project. 42 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,520 Thank you. 43 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,240 The chair recognizes Jessica Rogers, Director of Economic Development. 44 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,360 Actually, I will be facilitating for Jessica Rogers today. 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,520 Thank you, Erica. 46 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,280 She's on a much needed vacation. 47 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Good for her. 48 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,840 No vacations allowed. 49 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:33,840 I'm sorry? 50 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,840 No vacations allowed. 51 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,240 Oh, yeah. 52 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,320 So many of you know me, but I'm Erica Solomon. 53 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,680 I'm the analyst here and I also wanted to take the opportunity to introduce two new staff 54 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,840 members that we have here. 55 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,720 I want to introduce Dan Rosenfield. 56 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,920 Maybe you can wave. 57 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:55,380 He's our new ED analyst and I'd also like to introduce Kay Brown-Patrick, our business 58 00:02:55,380 --> 00:02:57,640 development administrator. 59 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:01,600 We're really happy to have him on our team and Kay replaces Michelle Cunningham for those 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:02,600 of you who remember her. 61 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,480 She retired this summer. 62 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,960 And I'd also like to recognize our consultant, Travis James from TXP. 63 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:18,100 It's an economic development consulting firm out of Austin, and they presented to this 64 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:22,920 board late last year, if we can all remember, the time before COVID. 65 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:34,360 And he's going to be telling, giving an update on the status of the TIRS study. 66 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:41,640 All right. 67 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:42,640 Well thank you, Erica. 68 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:48,920 Are you ready for me to start walking through my presentation? 69 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,360 So I'll start the presentation and then I will pause after every slide. 70 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,520 It's about a 15-minute presentation, but I know with the delay might make it a little 71 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,680 bit easier if there are any questions. 72 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,720 On the next slide that Erica will pull up, we were fortunate to be retained at the end 73 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:11,640 of 2019, and the primary focus of our effort at that point was to determine if the TIRS 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,760 could fund PEC 4 Phases 3 and 4. 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:21,440 There was a project located along West Mulberry that needed that drainage flow control project 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,720 to be completed to allow them to proceed. 77 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,160 There was also a potential request for some parking facilities. 78 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,840 And so the focus at that time at the end of November, with the cost of PEC 3 and 4 being 79 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:40,480 about $21 million, it's subsequently been refined down to about $15, $16 million, was 80 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:46,400 if we went ahead with this project and did PEC Phases 3 and 4 with the TIRS, was there 81 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,800 going to be sufficient funding to pay for that project? 82 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,880 And if so, what did that mean in terms of the financing plan? 83 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,360 So I came up in November 20th, met with this board, and that was some developers to go 84 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,800 over what was happening in the TIRS. 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,440 Obviously, COVID has occurred and the timeline got delayed. 86 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,520 In addition, that project on Mulberry and another project that was in the pipeline for 87 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,040 a variety of reasons, those projects have been put on hold or canceled. 88 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:21,680 And so the focus of what I was asked to do was let's step back and look at the TIRS overall 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,560 and maybe we fund PEC Phases 3 and 4 and if we don't, what else could we do with the money? 90 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,040 So that's a little bit of background or how we got here with the focus getting shifted. 91 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:40,520 On the next slide, I'm going to ask Erika if you don't mind to remind the folks about 92 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,800 the TIRS and how it's structured. 93 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:43,800 Sure. 94 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,440 The Downtown TIRS was created in 2010, shortly after the Downtown Implementation Plan was 95 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,680 adopted and it took effect on January 1, 2011. 96 00:05:53,680 --> 00:06:00,000 It will terminate on December 31st, 2041, or when 24.8 million has been collected. 97 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,320 The City of Denton, unlike the West Park TIRS, is the only participating jurisdiction in 98 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:10,400 the Downtown TIRS and it's structured at a decreasing ratio participation from 100 down 99 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,720 to 80%. 100 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,440 We are in the second cohort there, year 6 to 10 at 95%. 101 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,160 As of the previous annual report, the TIRS revenue was 2.4 million and the total TIRS 102 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:27,980 expenditures was 1.9 million. 103 00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:36,240 So that leaves about $21 million, $22 million left with that $24.8 million cap. 104 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,120 So that's an important number as we think about funding projects and talking later in 105 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,640 the presentation about how we prioritize and looking at the return on investment. 106 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:51,800 Unlike other TIRS, this TIRS has a cap, both the timeline, duration, and the cap. 107 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,820 On the next slide, this is to repeat what I said earlier. 108 00:06:56,820 --> 00:07:00,760 We got to about step five before COVID hit. 109 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,320 In the past couple of months, we've had about five or six stakeholder input sessions to 110 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,240 get additional feedback from the stakeholders. 111 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,500 And now we're looking to provide you all an update and get direction on how to proceed. 112 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:17,000 So that's where we are in the process. 113 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:22,100 Originally, it was about a four-month process and obviously now it's been delayed. 114 00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:26,120 On the next slide, just to remind everybody, I think you all know this. 115 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,060 This is the current boundary of the downtown TIRS. 116 00:07:30,060 --> 00:07:34,120 This is how it was created and nothing has changed. 117 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,880 But part of the original project and finance plan you all did years ago, another consultant 118 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:39,880 did. 119 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,400 On the next slide, they identified five catalytic areas. 120 00:07:45,400 --> 00:08:01,600 So in the next slide, Erica, they were labeled A through E. Go back one more. 121 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,480 So one of my tasks was to examine these four or five areas, see what has occurred, what 122 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:13,360 hasn't occurred, and see how that would impact the financing plan to date and what would 123 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,280 likely happen in the future. 124 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:22,320 On the next slide, it provides a summary from that other consultant's report about the type 125 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:30,120 of development that would likely happen, the value, and the timeline when it would occur. 126 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:36,860 And so some of these zones shouldn't be developing based on the timeline until today. 127 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:38,940 Some of them should have already seen development. 128 00:08:38,940 --> 00:08:45,100 There hasn't been a lot of new development in any of these zones except area A in a slightly 129 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:46,820 different location. 130 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:53,400 And I'm referring to the residential that was built next to the transit center. 131 00:08:53,400 --> 00:09:00,720 So there was projected to be about $126 million of new development within these five zones 132 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,560 that are within the downtown TIRS. 133 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:14,160 On the next slide, what's interesting is that due to redevelopment and appreciation throughout 134 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:21,200 the TIRS, but primarily outside of those five zones, the TIRS is tracking the projections 135 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,120 of the original plan. 136 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,760 So even though we haven't seen that development occur yet, the projections are still on pace. 137 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:34,840 About $3 million has been collected to date, about $21 million left. 138 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,680 Assuming no new development and a 2.5% appreciation of what's there today, the TIRS will hit that 139 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:47,080 $24.8 million cap by about year 28-29. 140 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:54,800 So if nothing else gets built today, 2.5% appreciation, we're going to hit the cap in about year 30. 141 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,640 So we don't need to see any new development to take place to get to that revenue stream. 142 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:10,280 On the next slide, this shows you the annual taxable value growth from year 2010 up to 143 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,200 the year 2020. 144 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,040 I might defer to David if you have questions about 2020, I know people are protesting values 145 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,660 all over the state within Denton as we deal with COVID, I see some smiling. 146 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:26,040 New construction according to what the appraisal district has given us was about $28 million 147 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,040 in the zone. 148 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,480 Now it gets a little bit confusing when they show partial one year and then the next year 149 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,680 it's completed where it shows up. 150 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:37,520 But based on the reports from the appraisal district, the growth in the TIRS has been 151 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,240 about $150 million over the past 10 years. 152 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:48,640 $28-30 million has come from new construction, $124 million from appreciation. 153 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:56,600 Does that make sense to everybody, are there any questions on that? 154 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:05,840 On the next slide, this will depict the annual revenue when it pops up, the annual TIRS revenue 155 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:06,840 per year. 156 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:13,600 We're approaching $800,000, $900,000 a year, so we've got 20 years to go, we're getting 157 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,760 about a million dollars a year, that's how we hit the revenue cap. 158 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:25,240 The next slide is cumulative revenue, it's based on actuals plus projections and again, 159 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,740 this is appreciation only. 160 00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:31,240 As I said, when I was brought in, there were two projects in the pipeline that were pending 161 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,580 and I ran a number of scenarios and shared those with city staff. 162 00:11:35,580 --> 00:11:41,280 You hit the cap sooner, is the short answer, if any new project gets built, but especially 163 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,920 those projects. 164 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:51,400 So we'll hit that $24.8 million cap in about 20 years. 165 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,120 Next slide. 166 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,720 So stakeholder input, so we got input from local business owners, developers, we talked 167 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,660 to the TIRS board. 168 00:12:02,660 --> 00:12:06,440 The consensus was that more downtown parking is not a priority. 169 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,280 One of the projects that had kind of been talked about when I was brought on was maybe 170 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,720 the need for a parking garage. 171 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,840 The general consensus was that it's not needed in the short or medium term. 172 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,640 Downtown businesses said they're struggling obviously with COVID and if you think about 173 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,920 starting a new big infrastructure project, please think about how that will impact our 174 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:32,160 businesses as we're trying to reopen, as COVID hopefully is ending sooner than later. 175 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:38,080 They thought that smaller projects focused on lighting and sidewalk improvements are 176 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:43,800 more important in the short term than a big hickory street type project. 177 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:49,320 Drainage improvements are necessary to create development opportunities, but new projects 178 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,360 might not occur in the short term. 179 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,920 So other than the one or two projects I looked on at the beginning, there isn't necessarily 180 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:03,360 a project related to PEC phase three and four that would be imminent if that project was 181 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,960 completed tomorrow. 182 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,760 The next slide, we heard that downtown needs more daytime office employment and traffic 183 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,400 to balance the nighttime activity. 184 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,640 The flip side is that office rents are not high enough to justify those new construction 185 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:19,640 costs. 186 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,600 So you would likely need to incentivize office users to come downtown. 187 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,600 Tourists said they'd like to use the tourist funds to incentivize larger economic development 188 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:29,600 projects. 189 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,720 Look to other city revenue streams to pay for infrastructure. 190 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,160 Leave the tourist funds to incentivize those catalytic projects that I went over earlier. 191 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,160 Existing businesses said they'd like to use the tourist fund on expanding the building 192 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,900 improvement and facade programs that are there today. 193 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:50,920 I think when I was there on November 20th, y'all were approving some of those grant programs 194 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,460 to businesses in the downtown. 195 00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:57,840 And I think in general, there was a feeling that downtown lacks an overall vision, making 196 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,960 prioritizing any of the improvements that we're about to talk about challenging. 197 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:10,040 It's not clear what's more important and why, that it lacks that vision. 198 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,400 So I'll pause there again. 199 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:21,040 Is there any comment or questions on the feedback we heard or for folks to like clarification? 200 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:28,120 Okay, and I'll keep going with the presentation. 201 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:33,960 Given your existing, when Erica goes back to the slide deck, the way the project plan 202 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,720 was written, a lot of the projects we're going to talk about can be funded without making 203 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:45,280 changes to the types of projects that are eligible for reimbursement. 204 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:55,120 So on slide 14, parking, complete streets, support for grant projects, whether it's 380 205 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:01,680 maintenance loans, utility drainage improvements, those would all be eligible given the current 206 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:02,680 plan. 207 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,680 All right. 208 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,120 So on the next slide, this is, I apologize for a confusing map, but I think it's easier 209 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,120 to maybe visualize all this at once. 210 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,640 So based on the feedback, we mapped the types of projects that people told us that tourists 211 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,000 should think about funding. 212 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,840 One would be maybe Oak Street, do kind of hickory street-like improvements along Oak 213 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:23,840 Street. 214 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,840 That was a project that came up. 215 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,880 The new streets, as you see highlighted there in gold on the screen, would be the kind of 216 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:36,920 project that could be funded through a tourist that people thought would help drive visitor 217 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,160 activity and business sales, may not increase property values, but would be an important 218 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,220 project to help existing businesses. 219 00:15:45,220 --> 00:15:50,160 Another thing we heard from developers was, instead of doing hickory street-like improvements 220 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,380 along Oak, maybe we should think about doing those along Elm and Locust, that there's areas 221 00:15:55,380 --> 00:16:02,380 more ripe for redevelopment in the long-term from Eagle Drive down to the courthouse along 222 00:16:02,380 --> 00:16:04,400 Elm and Locust. 223 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,600 You also see I've highlighted PEC phase three and four, which you notice is that most of 224 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,920 it is outside of the tourist. 225 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:18,360 To be eligible as a tourist project, we would have to expand the boundaries of the tourist 226 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,680 to be able to fund that project. 227 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:28,380 In purple, you see the parcels that are impacted that are within the floodplain that could 228 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:36,320 be taken out of the floodplain once that project is completed. 229 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:42,020 What I tried to summarize on this map was these are the projects that we heard from 230 00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:47,460 the stakeholders that they would like to see funded or should be eligible to be funded 231 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:52,640 through a tourist, and that then directed the next phase of analysis. 232 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:59,000 So is everybody clear on that map, so if you wanted to fund, for example, PEC phase three 233 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,200 and four, you'd have to expand the boundaries. 234 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:07,120 If you wanted to pick up all of the parcels that are taken out of the floodplain, you 235 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:11,880 have to draw it even larger to pick up those purple parcels. 236 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,680 So again, no right or wrong answer. 237 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:20,480 That's why we want to get your feedback is what would make sense in terms of expanding 238 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,480 a tourist. 239 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,480 Yes, Melissa? 240 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:29,760 What are some of the hurdles for expanding the area to include the floodplain from downtown 241 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,500 to Eagle? 242 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:35,680 You would just have to make sure there are caps on residential, the amount of residential 243 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,680 within a tourist. 244 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,280 I think we could add those, and that wouldn't be a problem. 245 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:44,960 It would require city council to formally amend the boundaries, and those properties 246 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,560 would have a different base value than the rest of the tourists. 247 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:59,400 You'd have an expanded tourist with two different base values. 248 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:09,880 On the next slide, which would be slide 16, I know return on investment is always an important 249 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,400 question as you think about this, right? 250 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,320 That makes sense when you're using the public's money. 251 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,200 So what we tried to do, we tried to both quantify what we could. 252 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,120 So what we found out as part of this process is that PEC4 phase three and four, I still 253 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,960 don't know that I get that wording correct, we thought was going to cost about $21 million. 254 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,800 The revised numbers are about $15 million. 255 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:38,440 We also discussed Corps of Engineers, EDA, some other funding sources for that project. 256 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,920 None of those have been finalized. 257 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,740 If you wanted to fund this project with the tours, and assuming you don't get any other 258 00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:50,360 funding source, PEC4 would be the only project you could fund. 259 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:56,960 So if you expanded the boundaries, we didn't bust the cap, then with interest, working 260 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,360 with David kind of high level, the interest on that $15 million, it would consume the 261 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,040 balance of the tourist funds. 262 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,440 Plus, you still need to fund those small business grants out of the tourist fund as well. 263 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,600 I believe that was shifted from the general fund over to the tour, so that still needs 264 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,760 to get funded as well. 265 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:22,040 It's not linked to a specific project per se, it has a longer term impact or properties 266 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,840 there today that are residential, that are being rented, that are being cash flow. 267 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,960 So it would likely take time for those to redevelop, but it would improve the value 268 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,280 long term. 269 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,740 City staff did a study before I was brought on, they looked at this to look at the return 270 00:19:36,740 --> 00:19:38,280 on investment. 271 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,120 They found that when you take the properties within the floodplain compared to the properties 272 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:48,220 adjacent that are outside of the floodplain, if you did this project, those properties 273 00:19:48,220 --> 00:19:53,040 would increase in value by about $17 million. 274 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,480 That translates to about $100,000 per year. 275 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,400 So is everyone clear on that? 276 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,680 So based on the city analysis, looking at the parcels within the floodplain compared 277 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:10,480 to what's not in the floodplain adjacent, once the project is completed, those properties 278 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:16,100 should be worth about $17 million more today than they are today, which translates using 279 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:22,820 this current city tax rate to about $100,000. 280 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:25,480 Another project was the Mew Streets. 281 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:32,960 That's a $7 million project, again, not linked to a specific redevelopment opportunity. 282 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:39,240 Has a shorter term impact, and the real benefit to that is helping drive activity to the existing 283 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,440 businesses downtown, make it more appealing. 284 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,360 Unlikely that you would see four properties torn down and something else getting built. 285 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:53,840 So this one isn't going to have the property value impact that the PEC project would have. 286 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,280 I use the generic term corridor improvements because I know a lot of folks talk about Hickory 287 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,280 Street. 288 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,620 Since the Hickory Street project has been completed, and we can get into a but for debate, 289 00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:09,480 the parcels along Hickory Street have increased in value by $50 million over the past five 290 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,640 years. 291 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,040 So if you did another corridor improvement like Hickory, that was a $7 to $8 million 292 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,040 project. 293 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,480 It was about half a mile long, and it is a more disruptive project. 294 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:27,060 It just takes longer to complete and would have an impact on the businesses located along 295 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:28,960 there. 296 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,680 Developer incentives was something else that we talked about. 297 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,400 Again, when I was brought on, there were two developers looking for incentives. 298 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,600 That's going to vary by project probably in the $5 to $10 million range. 299 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,600 The return on investment is difficult to calculate because you just don't know what the specific 300 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:51,920 project would be, but it's likely you're reimbursing for infrastructure, parking, those kinds of 301 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:52,920 things. 302 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,160 $5 to $10 million means you could probably do two or three of those depending on how 303 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,560 much you offered. 304 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,560 All businesses said they'd like to see an expanded grant program, maybe in the $50 to 305 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:05,560 $100,000 range. 306 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:11,000 Again, it has an immediate impact, but the return varies by project. 307 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,360 Another thing we heard from stakeholders was that general maintenance. 308 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:19,800 We should use tourist funds for general maintenance, beautification, street sweeping, those kinds 309 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,600 of things. 310 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,840 Probably doesn't have a return on investment that you could measure, but was something 311 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:32,640 that folks said we should use tourist funds to take care of. 312 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:33,800 So I know I've covered a lot. 313 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:41,280 So PEC 4, phase 3 and 4, based on city analysis, property values could go up $17 to $20 million, 314 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:47,320 translates to about $100 million to $100,000 a year in new property tax revenue. 315 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:54,160 New streets, that costs about $7 million, not an obvious or significant increase in 316 00:22:54,160 --> 00:23:00,920 property values, then generic corridor improvements like Hickory Street, developer incentives, 317 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,280 expanded grant programs, general maintenance. 318 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,800 If the direction from this group is to fund PEC 4, phase 3 and 4, there is no money for 319 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:15,960 these other projects, given how the tourist has a cap, or you could fund two or three 320 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,800 of these other projects. 321 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:30,440 Paula, you're muted. 322 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:36,440 Okay, that tends to work better when I'm unmuted. 323 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,920 I have a couple of questions. 324 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:47,320 Would it be conceivable and maybe advantageous to create a second TURS that encompasses the 325 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:56,880 PEC 3, PEC 4 areas that aren't in the current one, that is not structured with a cap, and 326 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,080 allow both to invest in PEC 3 and PEC 4, would that have some advantages? 327 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,640 Yeah, let me hear the answer to that one, then I've got another related question. 328 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,240 So maybe, Erica, if you don't mind, could you pull up slide 15 so I could answer the 329 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,640 council member's question? 330 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,640 I think you could. 331 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:21,920 I think the more common and easier thing to do would be just to expand the current TURS 332 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:28,360 on slide 15. 333 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,760 It's an easier process, there's not a separate TURS board. 334 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:40,000 You could do it that way, now you'd have to figure out how to, it'd be easier to expand 335 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,660 the current TURS, you could use all of the growth that's already occurred, because if 336 00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:49,880 you keep that TURS the way it is, with the downtown TURS, all you could fund would be 337 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:56,040 that little stretch down mulberry of phase three. 338 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,760 You couldn't use the downtown TURS to pay for what's outside of it. 339 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:11,680 Okay, so if we, I have to be on camera, I think, while I'm speaking. 340 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:22,520 So, if we did that, wouldn't that then also increase the earning rate of the TURS, like 341 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,960 you're saying, it would consume all the money, but wouldn't there be more coming into it 342 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,920 if we expand the boundaries too? 343 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,440 Yes, there would be more, and in addition, I should have said this, if you go, I guess 344 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:43,760 have to talk on camera, but if you look at the map, the improvements along Elm and Locust, 345 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:50,440 you wouldn't see the increase in those properties without taking, without doing PEC 4. 346 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,440 They're still in the floodplain, it's a little bit confusing to describe, if you go back 347 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,480 to that map, those parcels along that corridor would still be in the floodplain. 348 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,200 So as you think about prioritizing projects and expanding the TURS, just keep that in 349 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,820 mind as well, right there, there you go. 350 00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:11,520 And sorry, I'm kind of pressing ahead, Melissa, but if I could just ask one more on the same 351 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,800 topic. 352 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:22,440 What do you think about the ratio of inputs to outputs, and to put it differently, how 353 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:31,960 much should we be interested in investing to garner $100,000 a year income stream, and 354 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:40,520 could that guide us toward how much other resources we need to bring to bear, right? 355 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,360 Let's say, I mean, maybe that's great to invest $20 million and get $100,000 a year income 356 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:50,960 stream, or if there are other, I mean, maybe if there are other resources, we should get 357 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,960 them anyway. 358 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:57,720 But might that be a guideline, like we need to fund half of it in order for the return 359 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,160 to be attractive, that kind of thing, is that completely unclear? 360 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,000 No, it makes total sense. 361 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,480 I mean, I think that's sort of a philosophical debate about TURS and how you use them. 362 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,280 Is it to fund infrastructure that have a longer term payback, or do you want to use your TURS 363 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:19,760 dollars to fund higher impact catalytic projects like developer incentives? 364 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,600 So I do think return on investment should be taken into account. 365 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,920 What makes this one tricky, and it's harder to answer your question, is that there is 366 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,480 that $24.8 million cap. 367 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:40,120 So if you didn't have the cap, I think it might change how you prioritize these. 368 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:46,480 But if you were able to get, I'm making up numbers here, no basis for any of this, if 369 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,760 you were able to get 10 million from the Corps of Engineers because they like writing checks, 370 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,240 and then, in fact, did you say something about how there's revised numbers that now it's 371 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,480 only 15? 372 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,960 Originally we thought it was closer to 20 million when we were talking about it, and 373 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,960 I think the numbers now are 15 to 16, maybe revised isn't the right word, but as we delved 374 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,560 into and pulled the specifics, I know it's part of a larger project. 375 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,680 It's about 15 to 16 million. 376 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,880 So let's say for argument's sake, Corps of Engineers magically wants to give us 10 million, 377 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:27,160 so now it's 6 to 7, do we like those returns then? 378 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,200 And then that leaves room, it's kind of a portfolio, so I think of it, in fact, in my 379 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:39,440 very first TIFF board meeting, we very carefully worked out an agreement that was completely 380 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:48,120 steamrolled by council, but we talked about a portfolio approach where a certain percentage 381 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:54,800 would be for some unspecified big thing, and a certain percentage would be for more immediate 382 00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,760 things, and I don't remember where we landed, I think it might have been 60/40, and maybe 383 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:08,880 if there are, in fact, other sources, investment sources toward this, we could get to some 384 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,200 kind of a portfolio like that and like the basket of returns. 385 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,200 No, and I see Alex has a question, but I would say yes, I think the portfolio makes sense, 386 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,920 and again, then you have to decide, do we wait and not do anything to see if that other 387 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:23,920 money comes in. 388 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,440 Sort of, there's a lot of circular, if this, you know, but that's, sorry, Alex, so. 389 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Okay. 390 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,440 I'm done. 391 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,440 Thanks. 392 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,480 Yeah, I can kind of weigh in probably a little further than I could initially because I was 393 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:45,520 involved in one of the projects that Travis referenced on Moulby that's dead at this point, 394 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,000 so to me, I don't have a problem talking about it. 395 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,720 That project could have funded alone, just the tax revenue alone on that project could 396 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:02,240 have funded a big chunk of the drainage improvements for potentially some public garages, so you 397 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:09,200 could almost look at this and say, expand the boundaries, you know, the city could incentivize 398 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:16,880 development to occur, the type of development to occur where they want it along that, you 399 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,720 know, flood corridor within that flood corridor so that the funds generated just off those 400 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,240 projects could fund those improvements over time, you know, that was kind of the direction 401 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:35,840 it was headed, a few factors, you know, there was a desire to stall and use and study the 402 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:42,000 turs which maybe that, you know, again, that was probably needed, then you had the seller 403 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,600 signed a long-term lease on the property because he wasn't willing to wait for a study and 404 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:51,880 then COVID, so quite frankly, I'm glad to not have taken a big leap on a project, you 405 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,960 know, right then, you know, at this timing, but there are ways, I mean, you could look 406 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:01,240 at, you know, even dollars from the TIF acquiring parcels needed to make that a reality if you're 407 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,880 talking about an assemblage, you know, so it's just, I mean, other parts of that, of 408 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:11,440 that drainage corridor, it's like, well, a big chunk was available and ready to do something, 409 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:17,760 but the turs could say, well, we need these two little used car lots, you know, that are 410 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:24,160 ugly anyway and combine that with this big parcel and then those, you know, let's put 411 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,360 a bow on it and put RFPs out for developers to come in and develop a mixed-use project 412 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,240 that meets the design guidelines we want and then that, that in turn helps fund the drainage 413 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,960 improvements because that's definitely a but for, there's not going to be a 30 million 414 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,440 dollar development on Mulberry as long as there's a floodplain there, it's impossible, 415 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,440 so. 416 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,640 I think that's a great point and if you look at, I'm sorry, Ben. 417 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:49,640 Go ahead. 418 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:56,560 No, so if you look at that map on 15, there's two considerations, I think Alex had described 419 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:02,480 them perfectly, you can narrowly expand the boundaries that just picks up the geographic 420 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,560 boundaries of PEC three and four. 421 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,120 I would recommend you look at going further south because you've taken a bunch of properties 422 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,880 along Elm and Locust out of the floodplain, so I would pick up that area as well as a 423 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,920 way to help repay yourself council member to your point about that return on investment. 424 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,000 I'd pick up that larger boundary I've drawn, but that would obviously have to be a council 425 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,480 decision. 426 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,840 It's probably a moot point if I can speak, I guess, but the south Elm and Locust, yes, 427 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,440 I agree, but you know, the point about using the funds for big, I can't remember how you 428 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,680 turned them into like hickory street type projects and how disruptive they are, it could 429 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,860 have been done, it's a big disruption right now, you know, some beautification could have 430 00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:50,040 been done with what's happening as we speak. 431 00:32:50,040 --> 00:33:00,400 I'm driving this Ben. 432 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,600 One that that keeps hitting me and I guess this is, this is more for Councilman Meltzer 433 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:16,480 and Councilman Hudson, if, if we, if we expanded, if we recommended expanding, we recommended 434 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:25,440 going full in on the drainage issue, this, we're, we're done, we have no more recommendations 435 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,480 to make for the life of this thing, right? 436 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,320 Travis, you're saying that's, that's the end, right? 437 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:39,560 So to Paul and Gerard, what, what are the chances that we can, if we're expanding the 438 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:45,840 physical scope of, of the TURS, what are the chances we can, we can expand the financial 439 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,960 or the time frame as well? 440 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,920 Would Council be willing, do you think they'd be willing to do that? 441 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,480 Or can you even speak, speak to that? 442 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:03,280 So I'll, if I may, Melissa, okay. 443 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,280 Thank you. 444 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,280 Yeah. 445 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:14,840 So no, I'll tell you, predicting the future on council decisions is ominous at best, but 446 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,440 that being said, I think the challenge for me or what, what I would like to hear from 447 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:26,520 staff is I know there's that particular mix of residential to commercial uses or percentages 448 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,800 in that area and that's where I get a little nervous and I hadn't heard from staff. 449 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,680 I think you have to, if we include, we've got to carve out and so I don't, I just want 450 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:46,840 to make sure that one, we can dance that dance and stay with the right mix, but then take 451 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,240 that a step further to answer your question. 452 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:55,480 I think, yes, it really is a matter of having the right, so when those detractors that I've 453 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:01,800 heard, it's always been centered around existing versus new growth and what that new growth 454 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,800 looks like. 455 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,120 So I think if we can enhance the new growth and it not be apartments or that sort of thing 456 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:15,000 and truly be a commercial type use, I think there's traction for that and I've heard people 457 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,280 that support that. 458 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,600 I think the detractors lock on to the fact that it's, if there's any new growth, it's 459 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,880 been apartments and hadn't been commercial and there's a myriad of reasons for that. 460 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,920 I'm just telling you, I'm just repeating what I hear. 461 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,000 Chapter 311 of the tax code does put a cap on residential. 462 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,280 When we created the TURZ, the cap was 10%, so it was very difficult at that time, but 463 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,420 the cap has since been increased. 464 00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:41,420 So we've looked at that. 465 00:35:41,420 --> 00:35:43,800 It doesn't look like it'll be a major issue. 466 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,920 I believe it's 30% now. 467 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,920 Great. 468 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,760 So Ben, succinctly to answer your question from my perspective, it's yes, I think there's 469 00:35:52,760 --> 00:36:00,680 an appetite to expand that, but then it would, I think the caveat then becomes what new growth 470 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:12,640 and how we can incentivize commercial kind of uses versus residential uses and give some 471 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,080 council members peace of mind in that space. 472 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,620 That's just one person's read on it. 473 00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:24,440 Ben, does that answer your question or Paul, can you answer it as well? 474 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,200 Yeah, it's also asked as well, like your response. 475 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:38,040 So first of all, I'm very motivated personally about the idea of a greater downtown that 476 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,840 would be live, work and play. 477 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,680 So the residential thing is kind of a little tricky. 478 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:52,320 If you're building multi-purpose, I don't know if that's kind of a problem, but as far 479 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,640 as whether, I think the point of your question was could we lift the dollar cap? 480 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:06,880 And I think if it was part of a coherent plan that said we need to be this big in order 481 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:13,600 to do the drainage and do the development and spur the development that goes with it 482 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,560 and then have something to pretty up the area beyond it. 483 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,560 And that's X size. 484 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,400 So there's a particular dollar amount we're aiming for to achieve that. 485 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:24,400 I think that's palatable. 486 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:30,040 The reason you wouldn't want it to be completely open-ended is because the city itself as a 487 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:38,120 whole is counting eventually on having growth from property tax, from property values increasing 488 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,120 in the future. 489 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,820 The city's needs grow too. 490 00:37:40,820 --> 00:37:45,160 So if it's all just contained in the tourist, at some point you've got to kick in back toward 491 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,120 police and fire and all those other good things. 492 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,760 So I think it can't be unlimited or in my opinion, it wouldn't be palatable. 493 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,360 But I think if, just to restate, I think if it's part of a coherent plan, I think that'll 494 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,360 be saleable. 495 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,120 Now, whether Mayor Portem and I are sitting there at the time the vote comes up, we'll 496 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,120 find out November 3rd. 497 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,760 And does that answer your question? 498 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,480 I think that's, I think that's why a lot of cities also have, as you all have the declining 499 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,700 percent contribution council member to address that issue. 500 00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:27,920 So figuring out with city staff, what's the appropriate level and how you phase it out 501 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,600 over time is something you definitely need to think about. 502 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,120 I'd also make this point, Ben, and I think Alex said this as well. 503 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,440 Given that cap, and to the other council member, if you do an economic development incentive 504 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,920 to a business, then you don't have enough money to fund the drainage. 505 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,720 So that that's just sort of a little bit where we're stuck. 506 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:53,080 If you sort of pay it likely for anything other than drainage, which is all important, 507 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,600 you then can't afford to pay for drainage. 508 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,160 That makes sense. 509 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:06,680 So and then I had another slide on slide 17 that I think summarizes what we've talked 510 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:14,120 about, which is should the tourist issue the debt and David could explain that, but should 511 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:20,400 the tourist issue debt to pay for for pack four phases three and four, if yes, then there 512 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,920 is not any money to do anything else. 513 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,080 If you all say the answer to that question is no, or we want to wait to see if we can 514 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,680 find another funding source, then how should the money be you should to be used for strategic 515 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,160 corridor improvements for new street, the new streets. 516 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:43,560 What about the request for developer incentives and how much of that should be set aside knowing 517 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,000 that we don't have a specific project that we're trying to fund. 518 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,280 But that's one thing the developer said is if you want commercial, if you want office, 519 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,300 we're likely going to have to provide an incentive because of the rent structures today. 520 00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:02,520 And then finally, under what conditions might the city extend the life of the tourist. 521 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,560 I just picked five years, maybe it's 10 or seven years, whatever, whatever the right 522 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:16,800 number is, or exceed the revenue cap. 523 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:23,240 I think it would be a good idea to hear from Alex about because Alex, you said that you 524 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:30,440 can't really fund a development project unless you get the PEC4 project moving because there's 525 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,600 not any space to develop or spend development money. 526 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,320 I was just frankly saying they won't allow you to build in the floodplain. 527 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,880 So it's not going to happen on that parcel of land without it being fixed. 528 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,720 You were talking about that particular parcel. 529 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:48,720 Right. 530 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:49,720 Yeah. 531 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:55,040 There's others that are affected in the same way, but I'm just saying it was a prime example 532 00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,760 of a pretty good chunk of land that had the opportunity to add a lot of value to downtown. 533 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:11,620 It's very, very sparsely developed in terms of way too much surface parking and low density, 534 00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:14,440 one and two stories tops. 535 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,840 So it was definitely somewhere where you could have taken buildings three and four stories 536 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,800 high, garage parked. 537 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,400 I mean, that's the thing. 538 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,960 I mean, to Gerard's point about apartments, I get it. 539 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:26,960 I do. 540 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,120 I mean, you don't want to do this and all we get is a bunch of apartments. 541 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:37,480 I mean, if you create a good incentive policy, figure out a way to fix the deficiencies in 542 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:44,160 the area to even allow for it to occur, whether that be code or floodplain. 543 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,800 But then to incent then you can incent by saying, okay, we're going to do this, make 544 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,320 it economically feasible, but in return, we want these types of quality things. 545 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,760 We want retail where it's going to work or we want a percentage of office in this. 546 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,960 If you're going to do a $40 million project, we don't want it to be 2 million of retail 547 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,400 and 38 million of apartments. 548 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,480 We want this percentage of office, this percentage of retail, this percentage of maybe hotel. 549 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:19,080 Again, I'm using these examples in assuming we've got good economic conditions again, 550 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:24,440 but to me, all of those things, in my mind, two years ago were feasible. 551 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:30,000 Today I don't know how much of them are, would I or anyone go finance those things. 552 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:38,280 But hopefully by the time we're ready to spend these dollars, that's different. 553 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,680 And Travis, maybe you could speak to some of the development programs, and I think that 554 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,280 was bullet point three that are possible. 555 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:53,080 I know based on the original ideas, it looked to me only like number E or letter E was something 556 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,000 that was maybe in the wheelhouse today. 557 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,960 And I think that the only other thing that I would say is maybe where the mini mall was, 558 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,480 that is another opportunity for development that's not in the floodplain. 559 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:15,600 And the rest of them seem to maybe be too far along for cost to develop. 560 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,080 But that's just what I'm seeing. 561 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,840 No, I think that's right. 562 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,000 I think you're referring to the map on slide six, which shows those development zones. 563 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:30,120 C still has floodplain issues for the northern end of the TURS as other floodplain issues. 564 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,080 They're likely going to have to provide those economic development incentives. 565 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,920 They would come in the form of a grant or a rebate based on conversations with some 566 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,880 of those projects and the pipeline. 567 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,840 The city could choose to find another source of money other than the TURS, which is probably 568 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,200 unlikely. 569 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:54,680 But again, if the five or six or $7 million has to come from the TURS, it just means you 570 00:43:54,680 --> 00:44:00,680 now have $14 million as an example to spend in other places. 571 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:05,320 So especially if you want parking, parking garages are always expensive, they're never 572 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,680 easy to finance. 573 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,000 That's the kind of project that Gallus is right. 574 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,640 You could assemble land, TURS can assemble land and then issue an RFP or sell it down 575 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,640 the road. 576 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:21,960 So there's different ways you could do economic developments, grants or programs. 577 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,880 Paul? 578 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,160 Unmute? 579 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:34,680 Yes, something you said just doesn't make sense, or at least I don't understand it yet. 580 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:43,440 And I'd forgotten that the idea was to potentially use the TURS to hold debt. 581 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:50,200 You said if we issued debt held by the TURS, that that would use up all the money. 582 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:57,720 But the carry cost on $15 million can't be the same as paying cash for $15 million. 583 00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:59,600 What's the carry cost? 584 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:05,840 How would debt financing it use up all the TURS? 585 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:14,520 I think that might be a really good opportunity, unless there's something I'm missing here. 586 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,080 This is David Yanes, Assistance Aid Manager. 587 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,240 I think what Travis was referring to is if we issued the debt for the $15 million, over 588 00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,320 the life of that debt over the 20 years, it would be about $21 million. 589 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,400 So you would exhaust with interest cost the entirety of up to the cap. 590 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:37,000 So just interest cost alone is going to kind of take that total from $15 million to $21 591 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,000 million. 592 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,000 If that answers your question. 593 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,280 Okay, over the life of it, but does that make a difference that it's over the life of it? 594 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:52,520 For instance, you know, if you if you do if what is what is roughly the carry cost on 595 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:53,520 $15 million? 596 00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:03,880 You got to have an assumed interest rate, but it's about 70,000, an annual debt service 597 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,600 payment is about 70,000 per million. 598 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,600 So for $15 million. 599 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:17,640 About a million bucks or so that's about where we are. 600 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,960 So yeah, are the rules different? 601 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:26,280 If you say we're committing a million a year, we're also getting, you know, revenue into 602 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,280 the TERS. 603 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:33,320 But how much do we get a year, I think we get, what are we getting about half a million 604 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:34,320 a year? 605 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,600 So close to 800,000, close to 800,000 right now. 606 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,920 Well, that's kind of interesting. 607 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:52,040 But with an expanded TERS, could you get a million in, that'll cover the debt service? 608 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:53,040 Right. 609 00:46:53,040 --> 00:47:01,160 I guess, I guess, but I take your point that you would still that would still consume. 610 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,160 I think that's part of the question. 611 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:03,160 Right. 612 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,120 So the question is if you expand the TERS and you increase the limit, do you get more 613 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,400 capacity with this project? 614 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,560 Now when you expand the TERS, I think as Travis mentioned, you're also starting with a new 615 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,840 base there for those that you bring in. 616 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,640 So you're going to have to have some catch up time, but that would be a benefit of this 617 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,520 project if it worked out that way, right? 618 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,640 Where you, you expand the TERS and you get more, more revenue in and you can do more 619 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:25,640 things with it. 620 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,740 So it just kind of changes the discussion. 621 00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:33,040 Once we start thinking about that, but I think you're right, you know, if somehow there was 622 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,960 $15 million and there was no interest, you would have five or $6 million left over. 623 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,000 But that interest payment is what was what consumes the difference between the project 624 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,000 cost and the cap. 625 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,000 Yeah, that's right. 626 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,840 And the 15 million isn't sitting there now. 627 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:48,840 So correct. 628 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:49,840 Okay. 629 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:50,840 Now I understand. 630 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:51,840 Thank you. 631 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:52,840 And it's all right. 632 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:53,840 I should have been clear on that. 633 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:54,840 No, no, I should have been clear on that. 634 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,440 And that's where you have to decide is, and this is why it's a little bit circular. 635 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,360 Do you want to wait a year and see if some of these grant opportunities come in, which 636 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,280 then reduce the amount of debt the city would have to issue? 637 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,440 You know, do you try to wait and pay cash? 638 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:13,740 So I think that first decision about does this group want to recommend, or is it the 639 00:48:13,740 --> 00:48:21,560 desire of this group to focus on that drainage project that consumes the balance of the funds 640 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,600 without any changes to the duration and the cap? 641 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,720 We keep on talking about these other grants and other sources. 642 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,560 Are there any, I mean, waiting won't make it happen. 643 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:39,720 You know, are there things we would go after that exist, or is this just a purely theoretical 644 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:40,720 topic? 645 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:44,280 I think Erica could probably go into some detail on that. 646 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,440 But there certainly are a couple of avenues, even one that has come up recently associated 647 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:50,480 with the CARES Act. 648 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,760 So those are things we're obviously going down the route of and exploring. 649 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,000 And if we ever, if we get news on that, we'd obviously bring it back and it would change 650 00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,000 the discussion quite a bit. 651 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,400 But I can hand it over to Erica to get to the specifics on those. 652 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,720 The Economic Development Administration, we wouldn't normally qualify because we're not 653 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:12,920 a distressed community, but all communities are now distressed because of COVID and the 654 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,280 CARES Act. 655 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:19,560 So we're putting together, I've got three projects put together and I've got opinion 656 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,920 and probable construction costs and timelines back from engineering. 657 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,640 So I'm putting together a PowerPoint and we're going to bring something to council to see 658 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,520 what, which project we want to pursue. 659 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:34,640 One of them is the PEC-4, one of them is Meuse Streets, and the other one is the McKinney 660 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:43,840 property across the street and the William Trades Square combined as more of a pedestrian 661 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:44,840 project. 662 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,400 But again, this was a competitive funding source and we don't know if we'd be funded. 663 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:50,400 It is federal. 664 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,880 It would take a little while before we would. 665 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:59,920 But we've been working with the North Central Texas Economic Development District and EDA, 666 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:06,460 the local office for the region on possible projects and they seem in line and we'll be 667 00:50:06,460 --> 00:50:08,920 moving forward with that. 668 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:15,280 You're asking to have them fully funded and what's the timeframe? 669 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,320 What I'm hearing from EDA is they won't fund more than about six million. 670 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,240 So that's what we're looking at. 671 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,680 There's a 20% match requirement. 672 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,920 So it would be a little over seven million, about 7.2 million is what we would be looking 673 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,920 at. 674 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:38,280 So it would only fund the majority of Meuse Streets partial on PEC-4, almost a phase basically 675 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,280 of PEC-4. 676 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,880 But timing wise, it wouldn't affect it much more. 677 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,080 That's one of the questions I had back to engineering, even if we just did one phase. 678 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,540 Time to find out? 679 00:50:50,540 --> 00:50:52,760 Timing on how long it would take to construct. 680 00:50:52,760 --> 00:51:06,520 They're looking at obligating, I believe in the fall of 2022 by 2027. 681 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,240 What's the timing to find out if you're going to get it? 682 00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,440 There is no deadline to apply, so they're taking them as they receive them, but they 683 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:19,240 want to obligate funds by 2022, the economic development administration, and they want 684 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:22,800 to have them completed by 2027, last I heard from there. 685 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,480 So you wouldn't hear until 2022? 686 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,440 You might hear before, but they wouldn't be obligating, but that's the only timeframe 687 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:29,920 they're really giving us. 688 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:34,080 I know that they review them on a monthly basis as they receive them. 689 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,080 Okay. 690 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:38,520 Or my conversations with the Economic Development District at the COG. 691 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,280 I'm going to really, really try to be quiet now. 692 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:49,040 I think in line, though, with Paul's question, you asked for money for multiple development 693 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,000 type projects. 694 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:58,400 It's not an all or nothing, and if we funded PEC4, then the monies that you receive could 695 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,880 go to other projects, correct? 696 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,280 Erica? 697 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:12,760 I have to unmute, yes. 698 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,260 But again, it's a competitive grant, we can't rely on that. 699 00:52:16,260 --> 00:52:22,160 They have some non-competitive, and they're typically going to economic development districts, 700 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:27,760 and they're trying to get those out first, and also to, in the past, they had a revolving 701 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,740 loan fund, and that's their priority as well because of distress, and typically it's only 702 00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:37,400 in areas that have experienced distress, hurricane areas and that sort. 703 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,600 So they're not really getting new ones, it's just funding previous ones, from what I understand. 704 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,840 No, I have a question for Travis. 705 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:56,680 On the list of projects that are being considered, what experience do you have with, you know, 706 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:01,680 I think it's probably a pretty big thing that Denton has flood zones on both the north and 707 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:11,320 south sides of Denton that are hurting the development of downtown, and I'm sort of one 708 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:17,800 of those people who think that the corridors and the entrances need to be further developed 709 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:23,360 so that, as opposed to like, for me, I feel like new streets are more like an overflow 710 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:29,200 from the square, and so I'd like to get them there as opposed to take it, you know, have 711 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:37,240 an overflow type thing, but I was just curious how often do you see turds having to take 712 00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:44,040 care of just the infrastructure to be able to have development projects happen? 713 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,140 That's pretty common in older downtown areas like this. 714 00:53:49,140 --> 00:53:54,160 Just the infrastructure is older, and so someone needs to maintain it or upgrade it. 715 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,160 So I think that's the tension with these. 716 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,360 I mentioned your question between, let's say, a greenfield development where you're not 717 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,560 as worried about older infrastructure costs that are part of it or flood. 718 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,000 Like one $15 million project like PEC4. 719 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,000 Right. 720 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,000 Yeah. 721 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,000 But they all vary. 722 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,840 I would say it's probably not as common to see a cap. 723 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:18,480 I mean, there are caps, obviously, and these have to go back to city council for approval, 724 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,260 but that's a little bit different on this one as well. 725 00:54:22,260 --> 00:54:27,320 But San Antonio, if you know where the pearl is, all along Broadway, I mean, they use their 726 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:33,880 turds to provide 15-year, 100% tax abatements to encourage residential, then a residential 727 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:39,640 first strategy, and then we're going to stop doing those and then focus on commercial. 728 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,800 They felt like they had to focus on getting the residents down and then the businesses 729 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:43,960 will follow. 730 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,960 So they all vary. 731 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,800 This is not uncommon to struggle between. 732 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,480 Do we save money for infrastructure? 733 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,720 Do we use it for incentives? 734 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:58,840 We try to fix up sidewalks and lighting to help drive traffic to the existing retailers. 735 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:05,880 And that's sort of a philosophical debate that has to get answered on what is the priority. 736 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,960 Some of that goes back to what is the overall vision for downtown. 737 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:18,840 So I know in San Antonio, speaking of that, they have like an executive director kind 738 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,400 of driving that vision in a place like San Antonio. 739 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:28,320 Is that something that's been on the table for Denton or for our turds? 740 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:29,640 We haven't discussed that specifically. 741 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,280 I mean, downtown San Antonio uses Centro, which is funded through a PID, and so they 742 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,160 overlap duties between the PID and the turds. 743 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,960 I don't know, depending on what's decided by this group and then by city council, I 744 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,280 don't know if that role would be necessary. 745 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:49,240 It might be, depending on if you expand the boundaries and increase funding. 746 00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:54,640 But if you, let's say, spend all the money on flood control, then I don't know that that 747 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:55,640 role would be needed. 748 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,780 And I think you have Erica and Jessica and other folks that are sort of capable, given 749 00:55:59,780 --> 00:56:08,320 the size and scope of this, to manage it. 750 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,400 So that puts us on slide 18, which is- 751 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,820 Alex, did you have a question I saw on the half hand? 752 00:56:13,820 --> 00:56:20,200 I've had experience personally with the Fort Worth South, their TIF district, and they 753 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,920 have staff that helps drive that vision. 754 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:23,920 They do. 755 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:29,160 Again, they're bigger, a lot more money, so I don't know that it's, I don't know that 756 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,280 we could handle that, but it certainly is helpful. 757 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,760 That's it. 758 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,200 All right, Travis, I think it's yours. 759 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,760 So I'll take it back, slide 18, which is next steps. 760 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:52,160 So where we are today is to get feedback today or come back, but get feedback from this group 761 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,240 on how they want to prioritize or provide direction on how to spend the balance of the 762 00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:58,920 funds. 763 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,120 Maybe ask the county to formally join the terms. 764 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:08,360 I know that's been talked about informally the past couple months I've been on the project. 765 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,360 And then whatever this group does, you would need to make a formal recommendation to the 766 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:18,560 city council, I think, on potential changes to the terms in terms of boundaries, number 767 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:23,160 of years, cap, and then they would have to go through, I know we have legal here today, 768 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,320 but they'd have to go through the public hearing process and the formal updating of the project 769 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,320 and finance plan. 770 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:33,120 There's some paperwork that I think staff could handle on those two, but I think where 771 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:40,440 we are today is how does this board want to proceed with prioritizing the funding that's 772 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:49,160 available? 773 00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,560 Should I just go around the whore and get everyone's opinion? 774 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:52,560 Sure. 775 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,240 I think that's as good as any. 776 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,360 Okay. 777 00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,000 Let's start with Paul. 778 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,560 I'd prefer to go last and rather hear from others. 779 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:10,400 Alex, you want to go first? 780 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,880 Sure. 781 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:12,880 I will. 782 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,400 I also may have to jump, but at 115. 783 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:21,140 So I gave a lot of my feedback to Travis in various forums. 784 00:58:21,140 --> 00:58:25,160 And so he's heard from me before, but for the group, and I think a lot of you've heard 785 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:26,160 my opinions as well. 786 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:34,680 I would be probably one that's going to say expand the boundaries, extend the term, not 787 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,560 so big that it's a detriment to the remainder of our city. 788 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:46,720 But if you believe that the downtown area and the core of that being the central business 789 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:51,880 district, TURS district is really kind of our showpiece, right? 790 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:58,040 And if it's nice and it brings in visitors and redevelopment, it brings up the city as 791 00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,160 a whole. 792 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:05,040 So I would say that I would say expand it. 793 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:14,240 And then don't just let it get used to suck away at, suck its funds right into like right 794 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,120 down the drain, if you will. 795 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:23,480 And then, you know, or for fixing sidewalks and just while those things are important 796 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:29,040 and necessary, there's other ways of getting that done and encouraging, incentivizing new 797 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:34,540 development is what enables, you know, and then using those dollars to pay for improvements 798 00:59:34,540 --> 00:59:40,080 in the district is what we'll get those other smaller things done, at least the sidewalks 799 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,960 and that sort of thing and street trees, figure out another way to pay for drainage and just 800 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:51,320 realize that it's going to, you know, make the, you know, make the balances of the, of 801 00:59:51,320 --> 01:00:01,680 the TURS go that much higher when you put them in play. 802 01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:13,640 Ben, I don't see Ben anymore, but I thought that was maybe just my screen. 803 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:20,960 I don't see Gerard anymore either. 804 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,840 And this is Matt in the city attorney's office. 805 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,480 I'm just trying to check Erica, do you know, we've only, I only see four members. 806 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,120 Do we still have a quorum currently? 807 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:30,960 We need four for a quorum. 808 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:31,960 Okay. 809 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:32,960 So four is the quorum. 810 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:34,240 We're good then. 811 01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:35,240 Okay. 812 01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:43,560 I don't see Gerard, I see three of us. 813 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:50,640 Melissa Paul and Alex lost your quorum. 814 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:54,560 How long do we have to get back a quorum? 815 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:59,560 Well, we had a quorum for the minutes at least. 816 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:00,560 Yeah. 817 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:05,960 You can take a recess if you wanted to get the quorum back together, but we can't continue 818 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,100 with the meeting unless we have one. 819 01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:13,720 If we take a recess, Christina, can you reach out to the two that fell off? 820 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:14,720 I will. 821 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:15,720 All right. 822 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,640 And Alex, when do you have to go? 823 01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,640 Okay. 824 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:19,640 All right. 825 01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,640 We'll recess. 826 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:45,800 It is 1 10 and we are officially closing the meeting for lack of quorum, but we will be 827 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:50,440 sending out a meeting notice to change the rescheduled dates for at least the November 828 01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:57,440 meeting.