WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.760 we're live. Okay. Thank everybody for coming and welcome. We'll open the meeting of the 00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:17.080 Historic Landmark Committee Commission. Monday, September 21st, 2020. It's right at 3 p.m. 00:00:17.080 --> 00:00:22.360 First of all, let me note that we do have five commissioners present via Zoom and now 00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:30.760 six and we have, I think, Cassandra with us by phone. Is that right? Hi Cassandra. Hi. 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:37.080 That's correct. I'm by phone. Thank you. Okay. So noting that we do have, in fact, a quorum, 00:00:37.080 --> 00:00:45.660 then we'll open the meeting. Let's start with the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance 00:00:45.660 --> 00:00:54.920 to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one 00:00:54.920 --> 00:01:08.080 nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And now the Texas Pledge. 00:01:08.080 --> 00:01:18.280 Under the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one nation, 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:25.200 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Thank you. The first, Lenny, have you 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:32.320 gotten our agenda in your email? Yeah. Katie sent it to me. Yes, I got it. Okay. The first 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:42.200 item on our agenda is HLC 20-034, which is a discussion of next year's calendar. In your 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:52.680 packet, you should have a calendar with the suggested dates. We do have the ability, I 00:01:52.680 --> 00:02:00.800 think, to move those dates as long as it doesn't conflict. So if everybody can sort of check 00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:05.640 their calendar, there are a couple that I would like to move, but, or Mary can jump 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:11.960 in or whoever. So in January on the 11th is our first, because these things are normally 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:19.960 scheduled the second Monday. Does anybody have a problem or a suggestion on that particular 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:31.680 day? I don't understand. What are you suggesting? Well, we need to look to the second Monday 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:42.200 in January would be the 11th. I will be out of the country on that particular day. So 00:02:42.200 --> 00:02:50.560 I don't know that there's, I'm gone on the fourth and the 11th. So you guys can just 00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:59.360 do, I mean, that's why we have a vice chair. So is the 11th okay? I was trying to find 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:05.840 my schedule for school. I'm just trying to think it may be the week before school starts. 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:12.880 I was just trying to dig up my... Where are you going, Roy? Someplace good at that. Oh, 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:20.760 it's my 40th wedding anniversary. Oh, congratulations. She's got plenty of time to wing me yet, 00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:26.680 so maybe. I may go home tonight and the keys may not work, in which case, Lenny, I'm just 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:36.440 going to come say hi to you. You can put me on your couch. And so I'm taking her on a, 00:03:36.440 --> 00:03:44.880 it's actually a bare boat charter in the Virgin Islands for 12 days. What is a bare boat charter? 00:03:44.880 --> 00:03:50.080 That's where I'm the captain, as scary as that sounds. Oh my God. Cool. I've done it 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:55.680 probably 10 or 12 times. I've sailed all the way from Puerto Rico to South America driving 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:04.240 a boat. Cool. How big? Sorry. This one's 54 feet long. Oh, wow. But they've been as big, 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:12.360 as small as 38 or 39 feet have been the small. We don't want to lose Catherine. Okay. So 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.440 we're going to leave it on the 11th. The 11th works for me, Roy, because it's the first 00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:21.840 day of classes, so I'm back. I just wasn't sure. I wanted to look at when spring break 00:04:21.840 --> 00:04:29.600 was. Let's see. I can't. Spring break. So while that's happening, just real quick, the calendar 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:35.360 will be back as an item. It's the 8th of March, maybe? Spring break? Spring break. It's the 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:40.080 week before. So 15th is good too. We're good. Yeah, it should be on the calendar. But as 00:04:40.080 --> 00:04:43.840 I was saying earlier, we will have to bring back an item for action. So this is more of 00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:49.760 a discussion. So if you see anything that's conflicting or needs to be changed, just let 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:56.020 us know. So we're not going to vote to adopt this today. We're just looking at this. Correct. 00:04:56.020 --> 00:05:01.120 Correct. This is an opportunity to start the discussion and to see a calendar, you know, 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:06.840 with the spring break, with the holidays, and also, you know, your schedules as well, 00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:11.960 just to make sure that there's no dates that just doesn't make any sense. Well, I don't 00:05:11.960 --> 00:05:17.000 know how other people have dates on their calendar anyway, since we're under lockdown 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:25.520 and I can't go anywhere. So we should be available, right? Yes. Well, I think the only problem 00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:32.960 is, as soon as that lock comes off, I'm gone. I'm going to have, on April 12th, I would 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:39.040 probably ask if we could move that one. I'd rather move it up to the 5th than back to 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:59.600 the 19th, actually. So let's think about that. Sure. Okay. May is okay by me. April. Yeah, 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:11.720 some things are hard to get this far out, you know. A few are not, but. Okay. So let's 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:16.960 roll with Mary. Are there any other that are problems with you? Just. I did a quick look 00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:22.800 and no, I mean, I have some potential travel, but you know, that's kind of tentative for 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:32.720 right now. Yeah. Janelle. I don't see any that are problematic right now. So. Ms. Lenny. 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:40.440 All I can say is as soon as I get my vaccine, I'm on the road. Okay. Evans here or something? 00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:45.340 Yes, there he is. Yeah. Yeah. My Mondays are good. Okay. My Mondays are good for months. 00:06:45.340 --> 00:06:54.800 Is Angie here? No, I don't see Angie. Okay. Melody here? No. Katie is here. Do you have 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:59.680 any? No. You may have a big conflict. If you get elected, do you have to get off of this? 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:05.960 I actually haven't been told. I've asked, I've sent messages and no response yet. So we'll 00:07:05.960 --> 00:07:13.480 see. Cause Gerard is the one that appointed me. So I don't, I have no idea. Okay. Cassandra, 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:18.680 are you still with us by phone? I'm still with you and I don't foresee any conflicts 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:25.040 at this time. Thank you. Okay. So at this point, the only thing is perhaps a meeting 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:32.920 in April, if we could advance that to the fifth, but we'll, you guys can consider that. 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:38.440 Yeah. So we'll put that on the calendar for the next item for consideration. And just 00:07:38.440 --> 00:07:44.240 for everyone, obviously we're meeting at three and that is the time that we've established 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:48.960 here at the city. So if anything changes, if that changes back to what it was before, 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:55.120 we will certainly let you know. But as of today, it is 3pm. Yeah. It's potential that 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:00.480 I might have to ask for later just cause I don't know my schedule right now. I don't 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:06.200 have a Monday teaching assignment. So that would be the same for me. I can begin the 00:08:06.200 --> 00:08:11.400 meeting on the phone and end it on my computer, but I have to pick up my little girl from 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:16.800 school. So that's why I'm on the phone and I'll transfer to my computer once I'm home. 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.640 Okay. Okay. Like I said, once, once we have a better idea, hopefully it will go back to 00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:27.560 normal hopefully. And we can go back to this date or the time that we had previously. Okay. 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:35.120 Next up on our agenda is, um, HLC 20 dash zero 40, which is approval of the minutes 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:43.560 from the July 13th meeting. Um, they are included in your packet. Um, any comments or do we 00:08:43.560 --> 00:08:52.000 have a motion? I move approval. Second. Yeah. A motion and a second. Let me roll down the 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:09.520 roll call, uh, Mary Janelle Lenny. Aye. Evan. Aye. Angie is out. Melody's out. Katie Cassandra 00:09:09.520 --> 00:09:20.240 approved. I was not present, but sorry, chair Cassandra hasn't completed her, um, her oath 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.520 yet. So she's just here to observe and just, uh, see how the meeting is run. And actually 00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:31.280 I have completed my oath. I did that this morning and this afternoon. I just have to 00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:38.520 get my, um, ethics training signature to city. So I got it in on time. Thank you. Okay. And 00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:45.560 Roy's eyes. So we have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven eyes and two absent. Um, 00:09:45.560 --> 00:09:51.720 so that, um, the approval of the minutes passes. So now we're going to move on to the public 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:59.060 part of our meeting where we will consider COA 20 dash 0 0 1 4, hold a meeting and consider 00:09:59.060 --> 00:10:05.220 an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the dent 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:11.240 development code to replace and construct a new public restroom building at 700 Oakland 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:18.320 street within Quakertown park, a designated Texas historical marker site. Ron Mengita 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:27.840 is going to do our presentation. I'll let you take it Ron. Thanks. Thank you, sir. Um, 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:32.960 thank you for the introduction. Again, this is a COA certificate appropriateness for the 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:42.200 Quakertown park restroom proposed building. Um, the site for the Quakertown restroom facility 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:48.400 will be at the Quakertown park, uh, at 700 Oakland street, uh, generally in the middle 00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:53.800 of the, uh, the park itself. As you all know, Quakertown is a designated historic, uh, Texas 00:10:53.800 --> 00:11:00.760 historic landmark site. The specific location is shown here. Um, it again, it is to replace 00:11:00.760 --> 00:11:05.880 what was an existing restroom facility as well. So the parks department is requesting 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:12.320 this application for COA to construct the restroom facility over the same location as 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:19.600 the previous restroom facility. What is shown on the screen is a conceptual illustration 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:25.440 of what the building itself will look like. As you can see, again, it will consist of 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:32.120 um, restrooms, um, where the previous restroom facility is. So there will be no, uh, additional 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:36.320 impervious areas. Um, there'll be no trees removed. They will, again, it will just occupy 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:44.080 the same location as the previous building prior. Uh, just to help illustrate some of 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:49.640 the other, uh, historical buildings at the Quakertown park, civic center, senior center 00:11:49.640 --> 00:11:56.600 and civic pool. And, um, the illustration that you saw prior is to, um, to be consistent 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:02.000 as close as possible to, to these existing buildings, uh, so that the Quakertown park 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:09.160 has a uniform, uh, uniformity as far as a building structure and architecture. Uh, with 00:12:09.160 --> 00:12:14.800 that, um, the city, uh, staff is recommending approval of this COA, uh, to construct the 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:20.240 new construction of the new restroom facility building. Uh, again, they're at Quakertown 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:26.280 park. Uh, that concludes my presentation. I will be happy to answer any questions. Uh, 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:33.360 I'll just open the floor. You guys, uh, just plays in. Can you show the picture? Yeah, 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:38.680 real quick. Um, through Hoffman, um, director parks, assistant director of parks, uh, recreation 00:12:38.680 --> 00:12:44.720 is also on, um, I guess the meeting and can answer questions as well. So let me go back 00:12:44.720 --> 00:13:03.600 to the presentation. Is that the illustration you were looking for? Yes. Thank you. Thank 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:10.040 you. So I have a question. Um, so I was looking at, uh, the pool roof is like a blue standing 00:13:10.040 --> 00:13:18.000 team metal roof. Is that going to be the same? Like, um, you see here, like, so is this, 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.920 that one would be the most similar, I think, in terms of, you know, what you're showing 00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:28.620 us in the drawing that that pool entry building probably looks more similar to this than the 00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:31.760 other two buildings. And so I'm wondering, is the roof going to be the same kind of blue 00:13:31.760 --> 00:13:37.240 roof, um, to kind of tie it into the pool? No, man, we were going to pick more of the, 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:43.600 the cocoa color. If you go back to, uh, the civic center. So that color of a room, your 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:50.720 center that were the civic center. Oh, I see. Like this. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Is it going 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:55.120 to be the same kind of brick then as a civic center? Yes. So all the brick in all these 00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:01.800 buildings were made by acne here in town. Yeah. And so they can, they have that on record 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:06.760 because we've built a number of signs with the same type of brick in the past. And so 00:14:06.760 --> 00:14:11.040 when we order the brick for the building, it'll be, it'll be ordered from, from that 00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:17.600 slot. Um, I was curious too. Is it a condition space like air conditioned and heated? No, 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:22.480 ma'am. It's open air. It's open air. So like in the picture that you had, the, those are 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:27.960 like little open air grills. They're not glass block. They are, they are glass block. What 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:33.880 you saw is glass block. And then there's open, there are open air louvers on the sides of 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:41.360 the building. Okay. All right. Can we go back to the picture of the building? And the glass 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:47.560 box just to provide lighting. Yes. To help, to provide extra lighting. Yes. And ventilation 00:14:47.560 --> 00:14:52.480 also. Well, where's the ventilation then? The ventilation is on the side and it will 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.440 be on the side of the building. Do we have any other views of this other than the one 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.760 you have? No, ma'am. We didn't have a landscape architect, architect draw this up. What we 00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:07.840 did is we did this as best as we could in house. And so what we've done is we've designed 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:16.240 each for these restrooms. They're all, uh, nine by nine. So they're fully ADA accessible. 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:22.760 They're, um, you know, neutral gender. They're large enough, you know, for, like I said, 00:15:22.760 --> 00:15:28.520 for ADA capacity. And then it does have a small overhang for, to, for shelter during 00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:34.560 weather. This building's also rated to 140 mile an hour winds. So it's not, it's not 00:15:34.560 --> 00:15:42.080 a tornado shelter, but it is a, it will serve also as a storm shelter if needed. It kind 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.520 of looks not quite like the other things. The bricks looks very similar, but the roof 00:15:46.520 --> 00:15:51.280 line looks different. I'm not an architect or whoever is here, but it seems different. 00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:56.160 All the others seem to either present flat or tilted forward. And this one is in fact 00:15:56.160 --> 00:16:00.960 angles this way. All the others look different. That's why I asked for other views. Yeah. 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.480 So what, what we did here is after looking through all our different building schemes 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.880 and different ways for us to put restrooms here, we were, um, we were directed by council 00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:20.240 to build this in house. And so this is a Mueller building. And so it's a, it's a prefat, it's 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:24.680 not a prefab building, but it's a, it's a bolt together building there. You know, the, 00:16:24.680 --> 00:16:29.360 all the piers and everything were built into the concrete and then we're, we're constructing 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:34.800 this building. It'll all fit together. And that with the metal and the thickness of the 00:16:34.800 --> 00:16:40.520 metal, that's what gives us that 140 mile per hour wind rating. And of course we want 00:16:40.520 --> 00:16:45.920 to coat this building. We want to veneer or you have a near it with the, with the brick 00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:50.240 to give it the same architectural look that the rest of the buildings have. So what's 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:56.840 the footprint of the whole building? It's 41. I have it here on my screen. I can't remember. 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:07.960 You may have said, but it's 41 by 15 at 615 square feet, 41 by 15. Yes. So it's, it's 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:14.200 the exact same. It's the exact same size as the, the original restroom that was there. 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:19.860 It was in, it had fallen beyond disrepair and it was actually a hazard and therefore 00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:26.240 we could no longer use it. And it didn't have what it was. It was, it was four concrete 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.160 walls with a concrete roof. There were, there was nothing architectural, you know, architectural 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:38.200 about it. It was just put in, in the 1950s is what we were told. And so we, we wanted 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:43.120 to go fully, we need a restroom in Quaker town. Really the biggest reason that us bringing 00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:48.460 it here to make sure that you cared what it looked like, because the original restroom, 00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:53.960 like I said, has no historical value or, you know, significance for this park, but we did 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:59.480 want to make sure that we brought this to, to the committee and showed you, you know, 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:04.360 if you, if you'd like, we would like to brick it. If you, if you don't want it to have any 00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:09.320 kind of look of the other buildings, then we could either, you know, have it two toned 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:16.160 metal on the outside or we could, you know, do a number of different coatings on the outside. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:21.880 I think it looks nice brick and the other one wasn't. So what did the other one look 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:29.560 like again? I sort of dark junk. It was just, it was not good. It was, it was solid. It 00:18:29.560 --> 00:18:34.000 was, it was just concrete. It was flat concrete walls. And that's all I'm sure it was pretty 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:43.480 nasty and moldy. It was, it wasn't vented very well. And it only had, yeah, it only 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:50.560 had one, one women's stall and one men's stall with it, with a sink in each. And so this 00:18:50.560 --> 00:18:55.080 one here will have, we, we designed it for four different stall, you know, four different 00:18:55.080 --> 00:18:59.400 restroom facilities. And then we're adding, as you can tell in this picture, we're adding 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.680 water fountains to the front, the restroom, the restrooms before never had water fountains. 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.080 Well, I wish the, the roof line would come the other direction, but I hadn't realized 00:19:08.080 --> 00:19:14.920 how narrow it actually was until just now. That's kind of narrow. So it doesn't work. 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:21.720 Okay. Any other questions for staff? Is there going to be any exterior lighting? Yes. Okay. 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:27.400 In fact, Quaker Town, the, the entire park is getting, getting lighting over this next 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:33.280 fiscal year. What's the other side of the roof? Like what are you planning for the underside 00:19:33.280 --> 00:19:39.480 of the roof? Like the soffit? Like the parts that's dark gray right now. Yeah, it will, 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:48.480 it's metal soffit. Is it going to be one of these? And it matches the metal soffit that'll 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.320 be here. We've picked to match some other metal soffits over at the Civic Center and 00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:59.200 Senior Center that are underneath their eaves. Is it going to be one of these self-cleaning 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:07.360 fancy London-style toilets? No, ma'am. Those are really expensive. Oh, okay. I mean, I 00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:15.400 can't ever imagine using them. Any other questions for staff? No. I do have one more question. 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:20.400 So if the ventilation is just on the short side, how does it reach the, is there? There 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:27.000 are louvers in between each. In between each bathroom. And then it also has vent fans to, 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:37.000 vent out to the back of the restroom. Yes. To the back? Okay. Okay. All right. Well then 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:44.000 next up is we need a motion. Our options are to approve as submitted, to approve subject 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:50.240 to conditions, to deny or continue. Once we have a motion in a second, we can move on 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:58.920 to discussion. Move approval. I'll second. I know what the ugly ones looked like. All 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:04.800 right. So we have a motion in a second. I'll just throw the floor open for discussion amongst 00:21:04.800 --> 00:21:10.720 the members or we can once again question staff if needed. I say yippee. I'm glad we've 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:15.360 got it. We've certainly have needed it, but I always worry about how it's going to be 00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:23.960 kept. Exactly. But nevertheless, we have to have it. So I'm just surprised given that 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:29.080 eventually we might get back to normal, that we might need more stalls for all the festivals 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:33.360 and things that go on down there. Four seems a little short-sighted. I mean, you could 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:40.920 add another, you know, 15 feet and put in four more. I think they were trying to save 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:48.320 space. Yes. Trying not to use more space than had been used before. That and when festivals 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:54.720 come especially, you know, arts and jazz being our largest, we bring in multiple porter restrooms. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.920 Stinky toilets. Yes. Wait, don't you bring in the ones for the trailer ones, the ones 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:05.160 on the trailer? Those aren't bad. That's not what they bring in. Oh, that's why I don't 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:12.160 go to the arts and jazz. The arts and jazz folks bring those restrooms in. We help facilitate 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:21.680 those, you know, those events and the arts and jazz, they actually run the events. Okay. 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:27.680 Any other discussion? Let's vote. We have a motion to second. Let's just vote. I'll 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:39.640 do a roll call just to make sure. Mary? Aye. Janelle? Um. You want us to come back to you? 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:51.800 Yeah, come back to me. Lenny? Yes. Evan? Aye. Angie and Melody are not here. Katie? Yes. 00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:58.520 Cassandra? I think we'll have a slight delay. I'm yes. I know what the ugly ones look like 00:22:58.520 --> 00:23:06.760 too, Ms. Lenny. I'm going to vote yes. So Janelle? I guess I'll vote yes. Okay. So we 00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:21.360 have seven yays, zero nays, two absent. Thank everybody. Our next and last item on our agenda 00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:28.840 is COA 20-015. Hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness 00:23:28.840 --> 00:23:35.680 in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to install residential photovoltaic 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:42.600 panels on the roof of a house located at 2025 Houston Place within the West Oak Historic 00:23:42.600 --> 00:23:51.140 District. The site is located on Houston Place between Thomas and Bradley Street. I believe 00:23:51.140 --> 00:23:59.480 again Ron is doing the presentation, so I'll turn it over to him. Thank you sir. Yes. Again, 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.960 this is a certificate of appropriateness for solar panels on an existing home, which is 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:11.680 located at the West Oak Historic District. As you can see, the screen shows the boundaries 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.880 of the historic district. This particular home is located on Houston Place, just north 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:26.040 of Oak, and you can see where it is located. It's the longer, narrow lot that has the existing 00:24:26.040 --> 00:24:34.340 home. The owner is Eugene Hargrove, and again, they are proposing to install solar panels 00:24:34.340 --> 00:24:38.840 on this home that you see here. This is the front view. From this view, you will not be 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:45.240 able to see the solar panels. The solar panels are proposed on the east and the south side 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:54.360 of this home. This home is currently facing north. From a view further to the east, you 00:24:54.360 --> 00:25:00.880 will be able to see where those panels will be located. Where you see the antenna there, 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:08.280 the solar panels will be along that panel or that side of the roof, side of that building 00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:14.960 or that home. This is an illustration of where those solar panels are proposed. There is a 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:21.280 total of 25 solar panels, and again, you can see that a few of them will be located on 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:27.120 that eastern side plane of that roof, and this is where the antenna that we saw in the 00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:36.360 earlier photo is located. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and then the remaining 15 00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:44.240 will be on the other roof plane, which is again facing south and does not have a public 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:53.160 view. The thin development code does have a section of the code, section 496C that pertains 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:59.760 to the West Oak Area Historic District, where it talks about skylights and solar panels. 00:25:59.760 --> 00:26:04.320 Per the code itself, it says that the Historic Landmark Commission may allow skylights and 00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:10.120 solar panels on a building if their placement does not have an adverse effect on the architecture 00:26:10.120 --> 00:26:16.400 or other building or the district as a whole. With that consideration, staff is recommending 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:20.960 approval of this application for a certificate of appropriateness, again, to install solar 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:29.120 panels within the subject home 2025 Houston Place. That concludes my presentation. I'll 00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:31.960 be happy to answer any questions. 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:40.480 >> Okay. I'll just open the floor. >> When was this home built, Ron? 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:46.000 >> I don't have that information, but based on the illustration, it does not look like 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:51.360 it's been a while. It obviously looks like more of a modern -- 00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:54.920 >> I looked it up, but it actually was built in 1994. 00:26:54.920 --> 00:27:02.720 >> 1994, so -- >> I was guessing late '80s, so I'm close. 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:10.600 >> My question is, in the process of getting to today, did -- or what would be your impression 00:27:10.600 --> 00:27:17.480 if we moved some of the east on the very far east wall, if we moved seven of those to the 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:26.280 other east roof, which is farther south, was that even considered, or is that appropriate? 00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:32.720 If you left three or five on the other side, you might get the same sun, but yet be more 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.280 remote. But that was my only question, and I didn't know if that had come up. 00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:42.840 >> That is a good question. Chair, I did not bring that up with the applicant, and I don't 00:27:42.840 --> 00:27:48.200 know for sure if they're on the call or in the meeting participating. I did try to reach 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:53.120 out to them before the meeting, and it was not successful. We can certainly have that 00:27:53.120 --> 00:28:00.360 consideration. Unfortunately, they're not here today, unless I'm mistaken. To answer 00:28:00.360 --> 00:28:08.000 that possible reason why they did not include any into this section of the home, I can certainly 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:16.280 follow up. But for your decision today, I'll certainly take forward whatever the commission 00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:19.280 decides. 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:25.240 >> I like what you say, Roy. I think it would be more fitting. I'm not a big fan of them 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.680 showing from the street no matter what, and I know the position of where this house sits. 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:35.320 It sits a bit on the high side, so that if you're coming, what is it, from east to west 00:28:35.320 --> 00:28:43.960 on Houston Place, you will actually see them quite substantially, whereas if they were 00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:47.200 just moved a little bit further to the back, it would be a lot better. It doesn't seem 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.320 to be a lot of trees around, so it doesn't seem like it should be a problem to do. 00:28:51.320 --> 00:28:57.120 >> Okay. Do we have any other questions for staff members? 00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:02.880 >> I think we've approved solar panels on several other houses fairly recently, haven't 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.880 we? 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:13.800 >> Yes, we tried to get them so they don't face the street, so they're not so ugly. They're 00:29:13.800 --> 00:29:20.280 just not very attractive currently. I think the ones that made roof panels, they used 00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:25.880 to make solar roofing, but that went away when they went after making solar battery 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:31.280 for cars. So the best we can do is kind of hide them a little bit from the view. 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:34.760 >> Yeah, it does look like you could, if they, like, looking at this, it looks like if they 00:29:34.760 --> 00:29:40.520 have that fire setback that they have to have in the valley, they could get a few on the 00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:46.760 back portion, and then the very back facing, that's facing the same direction as the back. 00:29:46.760 --> 00:29:51.520 Yeah, it seems like they could probably get all of them between that side and that back. 00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:52.520 >> I agree. 00:29:52.520 --> 00:29:56.920 >> What are the green, there's a green, some green boxes with an arrow, is that where they're 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:04.940 locating the generator? Is that the air conditioning units or where they're locating the toll boxes? 00:30:04.940 --> 00:30:05.940 >> Batteries maybe? 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:06.940 >> Yeah. 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:13.040 >> I wouldn't put my batteries right on the street, if you know what I mean, so easy to 00:30:13.040 --> 00:30:15.140 steal. I'd be hiding them in the back anyway. 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.140 >> I'm not sure. 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:17.840 >> Lithium batteries are expensive. 00:30:17.840 --> 00:30:24.040 >> Yeah, it doesn't say what the green boxes are. I don't see it. 00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:25.040 >> Yes. 00:30:25.040 --> 00:30:28.600 >> Okay. Any other questions for staff? 00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:36.840 >> Ron, can I see the code again? 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:39.880 >> Sure. 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:44.480 >> Okay. Thanks. 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:53.160 >> Okay. So as a committee, we have four options. We can approve as submitted, approve subject 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.520 to conditions, deny or continue the item. If we take no action at all, I believe it becomes 00:30:59.520 --> 00:31:03.680 approved in 45 days, Ron, is that right? 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.720 >> There is a day. I don't know if it's 45 days specific. 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.200 >> It's 90 days, I thought it was. 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:10.360 >> 90 days from the day of their application. 00:31:10.360 --> 00:31:11.360 >> Mr. Chair. 00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:17.240 >> Okay. So to move to discussion, we need a motion appropriate with one of these options. 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:21.560 >> Chair, real quick, legal has a response to the number of days. 00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.560 >> Yes, ma'am. 00:31:22.560 --> 00:31:23.560 >> Mr. Chair. 00:31:23.560 --> 00:31:24.560 >> Yes, ma'am. 00:31:24.560 --> 00:31:30.560 >> The C of A has to be approved within 75 days of the item, the date it's posted. 00:31:30.560 --> 00:31:32.520 >> Okay. Thank you. 00:31:32.520 --> 00:31:37.920 >> I'll make a motion. I would -- sorry, Lenny, do you have something? 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:47.200 >> No, I was just going to ask how could we approve with a possibility of something? Yes. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:51.880 >> That's what I was going to try to suggest is I was going to make a motion that we approve 00:31:51.880 --> 00:32:00.160 subject to them placing them further from the east facing wall towards the back so that 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.640 it's not quite as obtrusive on the overall neighborhood view. 00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:07.440 >> Okay, Mary, that sounds like a motion. Do we have a second? 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.480 >> I'll second. 00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.920 >> With the motion a second, now we can move to discussion. 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:20.920 >> Does that motion mean that if there's something that we have overlooked that caused them to 00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:27.640 place them this way in the first place, that they won't have an option? 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:33.200 >> I'm looking at their plans that they submitted. It looks like the green boxes are labeled 00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:40.640 electrical equipment, and that might be because it's close to the garage. It looks like that's 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:48.960 the garage. That's the only information that I can provide that may provide a reason why 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:55.480 they located there, but again, I'm not a solar panel expert, and maybe that can be relocated 00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:00.960 to the other side of that and possibly be okay, but I'm not sure. 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.640 >> I was going to say, I think that we don't have the information. There's probably a reason, 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:11.120 but maybe where the main feed for their electrical comes into the house and to locate on the 00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:16.960 back panels, they might have to run a whole lot more wiring. There may be some complications 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.240 we're not aware of as to why they located on that side. 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:22.640 >> Not my problem. They should have told me. 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:30.400 >> They may have told us staff, and it just not got -- 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:38.060 >> Our condition could be that they work with staff to relocate as many on the southern 00:33:38.060 --> 00:33:42.880 east-facing wall as possible, and then let our staff sort of work with them and see if 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:48.520 we can't move six or seven that way and then let the staff use their judgment. That could 00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:54.400 be our condition is that we want to move as many of them as they can. 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:55.400 >> Or the west wall. 00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:56.400 >> We can tell them to move them off. 00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:57.400 >> The south wall. 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.160 >> The south eastern roof, yeah, the far -- 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.320 >> Yeah, you don't want to just specify east. They could also put it on the back side too, 00:34:04.320 --> 00:34:06.920 the south-facing side. 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:11.040 >> I think we all know what we're heading is move some of them to the other east-facing 00:34:11.040 --> 00:34:17.840 roof on the south of the house. I guess we ought to ask legal if that's a valid condition 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:19.760 to a motion. 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:26.240 >> Mr. Chair, it seems to me that you can add conditions to the approval. I think it 00:34:26.240 --> 00:34:34.120 would just be specific enough where the staff could convey that to the applicant. 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:43.760 >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Now, discussion. That's fairly vague instructions to staff. 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:47.360 But if they came back and said we can't do it and here's our eight reasons, it's probably 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:53.280 going to get approved anyway. Am I -- I mean, that's sort of our history the last couple 00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:57.840 of years is to approve these. I like the idea of asking them to move them. The question 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.560 is do you want to see them back here in a month? 00:35:01.560 --> 00:35:08.920 >> I would think that we could let staff deal with it but highly suggest that it's so visible 00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:13.360 and, you know, they're kind of -- I'm sorry. The panels currently are not designer-friendly. 00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:19.160 They're not very attractive. That's the best I can say. And so they're so visible on that 00:35:19.160 --> 00:35:24.320 east side. I've been up and down that street before. It would be nice if they just moved 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.920 them back and then all would be good. And sometimes what I found on here is that most 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.000 of the time people haven't thought like that, you know? Like one of the houses we did before 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.200 with the railing and the banister and the door, they just had some contractor come and say 00:35:39.200 --> 00:35:43.600 this is it. And I think if you give them a chance, they might actually be amenable to 00:35:43.600 --> 00:35:46.600 making it attractive. >> Okay. So -- 00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:52.480 >> We're comfortable with Ron and the staff working with them and trying to get it moved 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.680 a little bit because that way we're helpful but yet we try and get our -- and I guess 00:35:57.680 --> 00:36:02.600 if they don't move any of them, we'll just know next time to agree to a vague condition, 00:36:02.600 --> 00:36:09.240 not to agree to that. Okay. Fine. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? 00:36:09.240 --> 00:36:17.840 >> I would only ask if the -- if our motion as it was stated will allow for that flexibility 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:26.560 and approval without further change. >> Yes, I believe so. That was a point of 00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:33.520 the condition is to be flexible. Work with staff to move as many of the panels as practical 00:36:33.520 --> 00:36:41.160 to the east-facing southern part of the roof. Any other questions? 00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:45.320 >> I was just going to add, and I do this at almost every meeting, has anybody looked 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.120 at it on Google Maps? Or does anybody really know that street? Because -- 00:36:49.120 --> 00:36:51.960 >> I've gotten Google pulled up. What's the street address? 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:57.560 >> Is it 2025 Houston Place? >> I have. I've gone down Houston Place. And 00:36:57.560 --> 00:37:03.120 what happens if you're coming from the east to west, there's a rise. And so it comes from 00:37:03.120 --> 00:37:08.560 a low point up. And that's why those panels show so much is that they really -- they would 00:37:08.560 --> 00:37:13.280 be right in -- kind of you'd be seeing them. I mean, some of them might be less shown, 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.960 but there's -- you know, I can remember when all it was was a pile of weeds at certain 00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.600 points in front of that house. So I'm glad it looks so much nicer now. But there's no 00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:25.880 trees around this. So it's not like that's going to be a block for them. 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:30.200 >> But I mean, you know, as to the question of is there an adverse effect on the architecture 00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:37.560 of the building or the district, well, I mean, that street -- it's a 94 house anyway. And 00:37:37.560 --> 00:37:40.120 so the solar panels aren't going to have an adverse effect on the architecture of the 00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:42.120 building. >> It is in the district. 00:37:42.120 --> 00:37:45.840 >> I don't think it's going to stick out at all. So I don't really have a problem with 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.480 this. >> It's in the district. The other houses in 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:54.600 that neighborhood are, in fact, much older. That is the sore thumb of the entire neighborhood. 00:37:54.600 --> 00:38:00.560 In fact, it looks so different. It's the gray brick. It's so stark without trees. 00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:02.560 >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay. 00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:06.240 >> Yeah. The house itself has the adverse effect. So -- 00:38:06.240 --> 00:38:12.560 >> All right. Well, so let's -- we've had a motion in a second. Any further discussion? 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:17.280 Seeing none, Mary, your vote. >> Aye. I favor it. 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.040 >> Aye. >> Lennie? 00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:22.920 >> Aye. >> Evan? 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:28.640 >> Aye. >> Angie and Melody are, I believe, still 00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:29.640 absent. Katie? 00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:30.640 >> Yes. >> Cassandra? 00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:31.640 >> Aye. >> Cassandra, aye. 00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:39.160 >> Aye. >> Roy is aye. So we have seven ayes, zero 00:38:39.160 --> 00:38:46.320 nays and two absents. And so the motion passes. 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:55.440 And I believe that gets us to the end of our agenda for today. I don't -- I believe -- well, 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.560 do we need a motion to adjourn from legal? I don't know that we do or not. 00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:04.880 >> I move to adjourn. >> Chair, if I can add one comment real quick. 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:10.160 Just want to give you all an update. The home that had the storm shelter that -- 00:39:10.160 --> 00:39:15.040 >> I was going to ask you about that. >> We postponed to a date certain. The applicant 00:39:15.040 --> 00:39:20.040 actually withdrew their application. Therefore, there was no reason to bring it forward at 00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:24.480 that time. So they decided not to do anything with that storm shelter at this moment. So 00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:30.400 I just want to give you all an update on what happened. The other ones that were denied, 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:35.120 we have not heard back from the applicant. So we're still waiting. If anything changes, 00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:40.400 they propose something different, then that will be a new COA for the HLC to consider. 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:45.520 >> Thank you, Chair. >> We had a motion and a second for adjournment. 00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:50.880 Everybody in favor, just raise your hand. There are no opposed. So we stand adjourned. 00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.440 >> My hand is up even though you can't see it. >> Yeah, you went away.