1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,760 we're live. Okay. Thank everybody for coming and welcome. We'll open the meeting of the 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Historic Landmark Committee Commission. Monday, September 21st, 2020. It's right at 3 p.m. 3 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:22,360 First of all, let me note that we do have five commissioners present via Zoom and now 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:30,760 six and we have, I think, Cassandra with us by phone. Is that right? Hi Cassandra. Hi. 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:37,080 That's correct. I'm by phone. Thank you. Okay. So noting that we do have, in fact, a quorum, 6 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:45,660 then we'll open the meeting. Let's start with the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance 7 00:00:45,660 --> 00:00:54,920 to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one 8 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:08,080 nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And now the Texas Pledge. 9 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:18,280 Under the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one nation, 10 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:25,200 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Thank you. The first, Lenny, have you 11 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:32,320 gotten our agenda in your email? Yeah. Katie sent it to me. Yes, I got it. Okay. The first 12 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:42,200 item on our agenda is HLC 20-034, which is a discussion of next year's calendar. In your 13 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:52,680 packet, you should have a calendar with the suggested dates. We do have the ability, I 14 00:01:52,680 --> 00:02:00,800 think, to move those dates as long as it doesn't conflict. So if everybody can sort of check 15 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,640 their calendar, there are a couple that I would like to move, but, or Mary can jump 16 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:11,960 in or whoever. So in January on the 11th is our first, because these things are normally 17 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:19,960 scheduled the second Monday. Does anybody have a problem or a suggestion on that particular 18 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:31,680 day? I don't understand. What are you suggesting? Well, we need to look to the second Monday 19 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:42,200 in January would be the 11th. I will be out of the country on that particular day. So 20 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:50,560 I don't know that there's, I'm gone on the fourth and the 11th. So you guys can just 21 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:59,360 do, I mean, that's why we have a vice chair. So is the 11th okay? I was trying to find 22 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:05,840 my schedule for school. I'm just trying to think it may be the week before school starts. 23 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:12,880 I was just trying to dig up my... Where are you going, Roy? Someplace good at that. Oh, 24 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:20,760 it's my 40th wedding anniversary. Oh, congratulations. She's got plenty of time to wing me yet, 25 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:26,680 so maybe. I may go home tonight and the keys may not work, in which case, Lenny, I'm just 26 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:36,440 going to come say hi to you. You can put me on your couch. And so I'm taking her on a, 27 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:44,880 it's actually a bare boat charter in the Virgin Islands for 12 days. What is a bare boat charter? 28 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,080 That's where I'm the captain, as scary as that sounds. Oh my God. Cool. I've done it 29 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:55,680 probably 10 or 12 times. I've sailed all the way from Puerto Rico to South America driving 30 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:04,240 a boat. Cool. How big? Sorry. This one's 54 feet long. Oh, wow. But they've been as big, 31 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:12,360 as small as 38 or 39 feet have been the small. We don't want to lose Catherine. Okay. So 32 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,440 we're going to leave it on the 11th. The 11th works for me, Roy, because it's the first 33 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,840 day of classes, so I'm back. I just wasn't sure. I wanted to look at when spring break 34 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:29,600 was. Let's see. I can't. Spring break. So while that's happening, just real quick, the calendar 35 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:35,360 will be back as an item. It's the 8th of March, maybe? Spring break? Spring break. It's the 36 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,080 week before. So 15th is good too. We're good. Yeah, it should be on the calendar. But as 37 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,840 I was saying earlier, we will have to bring back an item for action. So this is more of 38 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:49,760 a discussion. So if you see anything that's conflicting or needs to be changed, just let 39 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:56,020 us know. So we're not going to vote to adopt this today. We're just looking at this. Correct. 40 00:04:56,020 --> 00:05:01,120 Correct. This is an opportunity to start the discussion and to see a calendar, you know, 41 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,840 with the spring break, with the holidays, and also, you know, your schedules as well, 42 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:11,960 just to make sure that there's no dates that just doesn't make any sense. Well, I don't 43 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,000 know how other people have dates on their calendar anyway, since we're under lockdown 44 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:25,520 and I can't go anywhere. So we should be available, right? Yes. Well, I think the only problem 45 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:32,960 is, as soon as that lock comes off, I'm gone. I'm going to have, on April 12th, I would 46 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:39,040 probably ask if we could move that one. I'd rather move it up to the 5th than back to 47 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:59,600 the 19th, actually. So let's think about that. Sure. Okay. May is okay by me. April. Yeah, 48 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:11,720 some things are hard to get this far out, you know. A few are not, but. Okay. So let's 49 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,960 roll with Mary. Are there any other that are problems with you? Just. I did a quick look 50 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:22,800 and no, I mean, I have some potential travel, but you know, that's kind of tentative for 51 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:32,720 right now. Yeah. Janelle. I don't see any that are problematic right now. So. Ms. Lenny. 52 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:40,440 All I can say is as soon as I get my vaccine, I'm on the road. Okay. Evans here or something? 53 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,340 Yes, there he is. Yeah. Yeah. My Mondays are good. Okay. My Mondays are good for months. 54 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:54,800 Is Angie here? No, I don't see Angie. Okay. Melody here? No. Katie is here. Do you have 55 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,680 any? No. You may have a big conflict. If you get elected, do you have to get off of this? 56 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,960 I actually haven't been told. I've asked, I've sent messages and no response yet. So we'll 57 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:13,480 see. Cause Gerard is the one that appointed me. So I don't, I have no idea. Okay. Cassandra, 58 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,680 are you still with us by phone? I'm still with you and I don't foresee any conflicts 59 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:25,040 at this time. Thank you. Okay. So at this point, the only thing is perhaps a meeting 60 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:32,920 in April, if we could advance that to the fifth, but we'll, you guys can consider that. 61 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,440 Yeah. So we'll put that on the calendar for the next item for consideration. And just 62 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:44,240 for everyone, obviously we're meeting at three and that is the time that we've established 63 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,960 here at the city. So if anything changes, if that changes back to what it was before, 64 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:55,120 we will certainly let you know. But as of today, it is 3pm. Yeah. It's potential that 65 00:07:55,120 --> 00:08:00,480 I might have to ask for later just cause I don't know my schedule right now. I don't 66 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:06,200 have a Monday teaching assignment. So that would be the same for me. I can begin the 67 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,400 meeting on the phone and end it on my computer, but I have to pick up my little girl from 68 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,800 school. So that's why I'm on the phone and I'll transfer to my computer once I'm home. 69 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,640 Okay. Okay. Like I said, once, once we have a better idea, hopefully it will go back to 70 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:27,560 normal hopefully. And we can go back to this date or the time that we had previously. Okay. 71 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:35,120 Next up on our agenda is, um, HLC 20 dash zero 40, which is approval of the minutes 72 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:43,560 from the July 13th meeting. Um, they are included in your packet. Um, any comments or do we 73 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:52,000 have a motion? I move approval. Second. Yeah. A motion and a second. Let me roll down the 74 00:08:52,000 --> 00:09:09,520 roll call, uh, Mary Janelle Lenny. Aye. Evan. Aye. Angie is out. Melody's out. Katie Cassandra 75 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:20,240 approved. I was not present, but sorry, chair Cassandra hasn't completed her, um, her oath 76 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:26,520 yet. So she's just here to observe and just, uh, see how the meeting is run. And actually 77 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,280 I have completed my oath. I did that this morning and this afternoon. I just have to 78 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:38,520 get my, um, ethics training signature to city. So I got it in on time. Thank you. Okay. And 79 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:45,560 Roy's eyes. So we have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven eyes and two absent. Um, 80 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:51,720 so that, um, the approval of the minutes passes. So now we're going to move on to the public 81 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:59,060 part of our meeting where we will consider COA 20 dash 0 0 1 4, hold a meeting and consider 82 00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:05,220 an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the dent 83 00:10:05,220 --> 00:10:11,240 development code to replace and construct a new public restroom building at 700 Oakland 84 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:18,320 street within Quakertown park, a designated Texas historical marker site. Ron Mengita 85 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:27,840 is going to do our presentation. I'll let you take it Ron. Thanks. Thank you, sir. Um, 86 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,960 thank you for the introduction. Again, this is a COA certificate appropriateness for the 87 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:42,200 Quakertown park restroom proposed building. Um, the site for the Quakertown restroom facility 88 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:48,400 will be at the Quakertown park, uh, at 700 Oakland street, uh, generally in the middle 89 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,800 of the, uh, the park itself. As you all know, Quakertown is a designated historic, uh, Texas 90 00:10:53,800 --> 00:11:00,760 historic landmark site. The specific location is shown here. Um, it again, it is to replace 91 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,880 what was an existing restroom facility as well. So the parks department is requesting 92 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:12,320 this application for COA to construct the restroom facility over the same location as 93 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:19,600 the previous restroom facility. What is shown on the screen is a conceptual illustration 94 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:25,440 of what the building itself will look like. As you can see, again, it will consist of 95 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:32,120 um, restrooms, um, where the previous restroom facility is. So there will be no, uh, additional 96 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,320 impervious areas. Um, there'll be no trees removed. They will, again, it will just occupy 97 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:44,080 the same location as the previous building prior. Uh, just to help illustrate some of 98 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,640 the other, uh, historical buildings at the Quakertown park, civic center, senior center 99 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:56,600 and civic pool. And, um, the illustration that you saw prior is to, um, to be consistent 100 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:02,000 as close as possible to, to these existing buildings, uh, so that the Quakertown park 101 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:09,160 has a uniform, uh, uniformity as far as a building structure and architecture. Uh, with 102 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,800 that, um, the city, uh, staff is recommending approval of this COA, uh, to construct the 103 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:20,240 new construction of the new restroom facility building. Uh, again, they're at Quakertown 104 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:26,280 park. Uh, that concludes my presentation. I will be happy to answer any questions. Uh, 105 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:33,360 I'll just open the floor. You guys, uh, just plays in. Can you show the picture? Yeah, 106 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:38,680 real quick. Um, through Hoffman, um, director parks, assistant director of parks, uh, recreation 107 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:44,720 is also on, um, I guess the meeting and can answer questions as well. So let me go back 108 00:12:44,720 --> 00:13:03,600 to the presentation. Is that the illustration you were looking for? Yes. Thank you. Thank 109 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:10,040 you. So I have a question. Um, so I was looking at, uh, the pool roof is like a blue standing 110 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:18,000 team metal roof. Is that going to be the same? Like, um, you see here, like, so is this, 111 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,920 that one would be the most similar, I think, in terms of, you know, what you're showing 112 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:28,620 us in the drawing that that pool entry building probably looks more similar to this than the 113 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:31,760 other two buildings. And so I'm wondering, is the roof going to be the same kind of blue 114 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,240 roof, um, to kind of tie it into the pool? No, man, we were going to pick more of the, 115 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:43,600 the cocoa color. If you go back to, uh, the civic center. So that color of a room, your 116 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:50,720 center that were the civic center. Oh, I see. Like this. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Is it going 117 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,120 to be the same kind of brick then as a civic center? Yes. So all the brick in all these 118 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:01,800 buildings were made by acne here in town. Yeah. And so they can, they have that on record 119 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,760 because we've built a number of signs with the same type of brick in the past. And so 120 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,040 when we order the brick for the building, it'll be, it'll be ordered from, from that 121 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:17,600 slot. Um, I was curious too. Is it a condition space like air conditioned and heated? No, 122 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,480 ma'am. It's open air. It's open air. So like in the picture that you had, the, those are 123 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,960 like little open air grills. They're not glass block. They are, they are glass block. What 124 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:33,880 you saw is glass block. And then there's open, there are open air louvers on the sides of 125 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:41,360 the building. Okay. All right. Can we go back to the picture of the building? And the glass 126 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:47,560 box just to provide lighting. Yes. To help, to provide extra lighting. Yes. And ventilation 127 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,480 also. Well, where's the ventilation then? The ventilation is on the side and it will 128 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,440 be on the side of the building. Do we have any other views of this other than the one 129 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,760 you have? No, ma'am. We didn't have a landscape architect, architect draw this up. What we 130 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:07,840 did is we did this as best as we could in house. And so what we've done is we've designed 131 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:16,240 each for these restrooms. They're all, uh, nine by nine. So they're fully ADA accessible. 132 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:22,760 They're, um, you know, neutral gender. They're large enough, you know, for, like I said, 133 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:28,520 for ADA capacity. And then it does have a small overhang for, to, for shelter during 134 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:34,560 weather. This building's also rated to 140 mile an hour winds. So it's not, it's not 135 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:42,080 a tornado shelter, but it is a, it will serve also as a storm shelter if needed. It kind 136 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,520 of looks not quite like the other things. The bricks looks very similar, but the roof 137 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,280 line looks different. I'm not an architect or whoever is here, but it seems different. 138 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,160 All the others seem to either present flat or tilted forward. And this one is in fact 139 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,960 angles this way. All the others look different. That's why I asked for other views. Yeah. 140 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,480 So what, what we did here is after looking through all our different building schemes 141 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,880 and different ways for us to put restrooms here, we were, um, we were directed by council 142 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:20,240 to build this in house. And so this is a Mueller building. And so it's a, it's a prefat, it's 143 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,680 not a prefab building, but it's a, it's a bolt together building there. You know, the, 144 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,360 all the piers and everything were built into the concrete and then we're, we're constructing 145 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,800 this building. It'll all fit together. And that with the metal and the thickness of the 146 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:40,520 metal, that's what gives us that 140 mile per hour wind rating. And of course we want 147 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,920 to coat this building. We want to veneer or you have a near it with the, with the brick 148 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,240 to give it the same architectural look that the rest of the buildings have. So what's 149 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:56,840 the footprint of the whole building? It's 41. I have it here on my screen. I can't remember. 150 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:07,960 You may have said, but it's 41 by 15 at 615 square feet, 41 by 15. Yes. So it's, it's 151 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:14,200 the exact same. It's the exact same size as the, the original restroom that was there. 152 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,860 It was in, it had fallen beyond disrepair and it was actually a hazard and therefore 153 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:26,240 we could no longer use it. And it didn't have what it was. It was, it was four concrete 154 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,160 walls with a concrete roof. There were, there was nothing architectural, you know, architectural 155 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:38,200 about it. It was just put in, in the 1950s is what we were told. And so we, we wanted 156 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,120 to go fully, we need a restroom in Quaker town. Really the biggest reason that us bringing 157 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:48,460 it here to make sure that you cared what it looked like, because the original restroom, 158 00:17:48,460 --> 00:17:53,960 like I said, has no historical value or, you know, significance for this park, but we did 159 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,480 want to make sure that we brought this to, to the committee and showed you, you know, 160 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,360 if you, if you'd like, we would like to brick it. If you, if you don't want it to have any 161 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:09,320 kind of look of the other buildings, then we could either, you know, have it two toned 162 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:16,160 metal on the outside or we could, you know, do a number of different coatings on the outside. 163 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,880 I think it looks nice brick and the other one wasn't. So what did the other one look 164 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:29,560 like again? I sort of dark junk. It was just, it was not good. It was, it was solid. It 165 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,000 was, it was just concrete. It was flat concrete walls. And that's all I'm sure it was pretty 166 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:43,480 nasty and moldy. It was, it wasn't vented very well. And it only had, yeah, it only 167 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:50,560 had one, one women's stall and one men's stall with it, with a sink in each. And so this 168 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,080 one here will have, we, we designed it for four different stall, you know, four different 169 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,400 restroom facilities. And then we're adding, as you can tell in this picture, we're adding 170 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,680 water fountains to the front, the restroom, the restrooms before never had water fountains. 171 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,080 Well, I wish the, the roof line would come the other direction, but I hadn't realized 172 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:14,920 how narrow it actually was until just now. That's kind of narrow. So it doesn't work. 173 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:21,720 Okay. Any other questions for staff? Is there going to be any exterior lighting? Yes. Okay. 174 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:27,400 In fact, Quaker Town, the, the entire park is getting, getting lighting over this next 175 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:33,280 fiscal year. What's the other side of the roof? Like what are you planning for the underside 176 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:39,480 of the roof? Like the soffit? Like the parts that's dark gray right now. Yeah, it will, 177 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:48,480 it's metal soffit. Is it going to be one of these? And it matches the metal soffit that'll 178 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,320 be here. We've picked to match some other metal soffits over at the Civic Center and 179 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:59,200 Senior Center that are underneath their eaves. Is it going to be one of these self-cleaning 180 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:07,360 fancy London-style toilets? No, ma'am. Those are really expensive. Oh, okay. I mean, I 181 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:15,400 can't ever imagine using them. Any other questions for staff? No. I do have one more question. 182 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,400 So if the ventilation is just on the short side, how does it reach the, is there? There 183 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:27,000 are louvers in between each. In between each bathroom. And then it also has vent fans to, 184 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:37,000 vent out to the back of the restroom. Yes. To the back? Okay. Okay. All right. Well then 185 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:44,000 next up is we need a motion. Our options are to approve as submitted, to approve subject 186 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:50,240 to conditions, to deny or continue. Once we have a motion in a second, we can move on 187 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:58,920 to discussion. Move approval. I'll second. I know what the ugly ones looked like. All 188 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,800 right. So we have a motion in a second. I'll just throw the floor open for discussion amongst 189 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:10,720 the members or we can once again question staff if needed. I say yippee. I'm glad we've 190 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,360 got it. We've certainly have needed it, but I always worry about how it's going to be 191 00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:23,960 kept. Exactly. But nevertheless, we have to have it. So I'm just surprised given that 192 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,080 eventually we might get back to normal, that we might need more stalls for all the festivals 193 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,360 and things that go on down there. Four seems a little short-sighted. I mean, you could 194 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:40,920 add another, you know, 15 feet and put in four more. I think they were trying to save 195 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:48,320 space. Yes. Trying not to use more space than had been used before. That and when festivals 196 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:54,720 come especially, you know, arts and jazz being our largest, we bring in multiple porter restrooms. 197 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,920 Stinky toilets. Yes. Wait, don't you bring in the ones for the trailer ones, the ones 198 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:05,160 on the trailer? Those aren't bad. That's not what they bring in. Oh, that's why I don't 199 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:12,160 go to the arts and jazz. The arts and jazz folks bring those restrooms in. We help facilitate 200 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:21,680 those, you know, those events and the arts and jazz, they actually run the events. Okay. 201 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,680 Any other discussion? Let's vote. We have a motion to second. Let's just vote. I'll 202 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:39,640 do a roll call just to make sure. Mary? Aye. Janelle? Um. You want us to come back to you? 203 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:51,800 Yeah, come back to me. Lenny? Yes. Evan? Aye. Angie and Melody are not here. Katie? Yes. 204 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:58,520 Cassandra? I think we'll have a slight delay. I'm yes. I know what the ugly ones look like 205 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:06,760 too, Ms. Lenny. I'm going to vote yes. So Janelle? I guess I'll vote yes. Okay. So we 206 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:21,360 have seven yays, zero nays, two absent. Thank everybody. Our next and last item on our agenda 207 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:28,840 is COA 20-015. Hold a public meeting and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness 208 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:35,680 in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to install residential photovoltaic 209 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:42,600 panels on the roof of a house located at 2025 Houston Place within the West Oak Historic 210 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:51,140 District. The site is located on Houston Place between Thomas and Bradley Street. I believe 211 00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:59,480 again Ron is doing the presentation, so I'll turn it over to him. Thank you sir. Yes. Again, 212 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,960 this is a certificate of appropriateness for solar panels on an existing home, which is 213 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:11,680 located at the West Oak Historic District. As you can see, the screen shows the boundaries 214 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,880 of the historic district. This particular home is located on Houston Place, just north 215 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:26,040 of Oak, and you can see where it is located. It's the longer, narrow lot that has the existing 216 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:34,340 home. The owner is Eugene Hargrove, and again, they are proposing to install solar panels 217 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:38,840 on this home that you see here. This is the front view. From this view, you will not be 218 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:45,240 able to see the solar panels. The solar panels are proposed on the east and the south side 219 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:54,360 of this home. This home is currently facing north. From a view further to the east, you 220 00:24:54,360 --> 00:25:00,880 will be able to see where those panels will be located. Where you see the antenna there, 221 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:08,280 the solar panels will be along that panel or that side of the roof, side of that building 222 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:14,960 or that home. This is an illustration of where those solar panels are proposed. There is a 223 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:21,280 total of 25 solar panels, and again, you can see that a few of them will be located on 224 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:27,120 that eastern side plane of that roof, and this is where the antenna that we saw in the 225 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:36,360 earlier photo is located. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and then the remaining 15 226 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:44,240 will be on the other roof plane, which is again facing south and does not have a public 227 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:53,160 view. The thin development code does have a section of the code, section 496C that pertains 228 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:59,760 to the West Oak Area Historic District, where it talks about skylights and solar panels. 229 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Per the code itself, it says that the Historic Landmark Commission may allow skylights and 230 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:10,120 solar panels on a building if their placement does not have an adverse effect on the architecture 231 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:16,400 or other building or the district as a whole. With that consideration, staff is recommending 232 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,960 approval of this application for a certificate of appropriateness, again, to install solar 233 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:29,120 panels within the subject home 2025 Houston Place. That concludes my presentation. I'll 234 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,960 be happy to answer any questions. 235 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:40,480 >> Okay. I'll just open the floor. >> When was this home built, Ron? 236 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:46,000 >> I don't have that information, but based on the illustration, it does not look like 237 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:51,360 it's been a while. It obviously looks like more of a modern -- 238 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,920 >> I looked it up, but it actually was built in 1994. 239 00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:02,720 >> 1994, so -- >> I was guessing late '80s, so I'm close. 240 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:10,600 >> My question is, in the process of getting to today, did -- or what would be your impression 241 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:17,480 if we moved some of the east on the very far east wall, if we moved seven of those to the 242 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:26,280 other east roof, which is farther south, was that even considered, or is that appropriate? 243 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:32,720 If you left three or five on the other side, you might get the same sun, but yet be more 244 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,280 remote. But that was my only question, and I didn't know if that had come up. 245 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,840 >> That is a good question. Chair, I did not bring that up with the applicant, and I don't 246 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,200 know for sure if they're on the call or in the meeting participating. I did try to reach 247 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,120 out to them before the meeting, and it was not successful. We can certainly have that 248 00:27:53,120 --> 00:28:00,360 consideration. Unfortunately, they're not here today, unless I'm mistaken. To answer 249 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:08,000 that possible reason why they did not include any into this section of the home, I can certainly 250 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:16,280 follow up. But for your decision today, I'll certainly take forward whatever the commission 251 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,280 decides. 252 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:25,240 >> I like what you say, Roy. I think it would be more fitting. I'm not a big fan of them 253 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,680 showing from the street no matter what, and I know the position of where this house sits. 254 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:35,320 It sits a bit on the high side, so that if you're coming, what is it, from east to west 255 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:43,960 on Houston Place, you will actually see them quite substantially, whereas if they were 256 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,200 just moved a little bit further to the back, it would be a lot better. It doesn't seem 257 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,320 to be a lot of trees around, so it doesn't seem like it should be a problem to do. 258 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,120 >> Okay. Do we have any other questions for staff members? 259 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,880 >> I think we've approved solar panels on several other houses fairly recently, haven't 260 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,880 we? 261 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:13,800 >> Yes, we tried to get them so they don't face the street, so they're not so ugly. They're 262 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:20,280 just not very attractive currently. I think the ones that made roof panels, they used 263 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,880 to make solar roofing, but that went away when they went after making solar battery 264 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:31,280 for cars. So the best we can do is kind of hide them a little bit from the view. 265 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,760 >> Yeah, it does look like you could, if they, like, looking at this, it looks like if they 266 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:40,520 have that fire setback that they have to have in the valley, they could get a few on the 267 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,760 back portion, and then the very back facing, that's facing the same direction as the back. 268 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,520 Yeah, it seems like they could probably get all of them between that side and that back. 269 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,520 >> I agree. 270 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,920 >> What are the green, there's a green, some green boxes with an arrow, is that where they're 271 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:04,940 locating the generator? Is that the air conditioning units or where they're locating the toll boxes? 272 00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:05,940 >> Batteries maybe? 273 00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:06,940 >> Yeah. 274 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:13,040 >> I wouldn't put my batteries right on the street, if you know what I mean, so easy to 275 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,140 steal. I'd be hiding them in the back anyway. 276 00:30:15,140 --> 00:30:16,140 >> I'm not sure. 277 00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:17,840 >> Lithium batteries are expensive. 278 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:24,040 >> Yeah, it doesn't say what the green boxes are. I don't see it. 279 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,040 >> Yes. 280 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,600 >> Okay. Any other questions for staff? 281 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:36,840 >> Ron, can I see the code again? 282 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,880 >> Sure. 283 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,480 >> Okay. Thanks. 284 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:53,160 >> Okay. So as a committee, we have four options. We can approve as submitted, approve subject 285 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:59,520 to conditions, deny or continue the item. If we take no action at all, I believe it becomes 286 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,680 approved in 45 days, Ron, is that right? 287 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,720 >> There is a day. I don't know if it's 45 days specific. 288 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,200 >> It's 90 days, I thought it was. 289 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,360 >> 90 days from the day of their application. 290 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,360 >> Mr. Chair. 291 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:17,240 >> Okay. So to move to discussion, we need a motion appropriate with one of these options. 292 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,560 >> Chair, real quick, legal has a response to the number of days. 293 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,560 >> Yes, ma'am. 294 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,560 >> Mr. Chair. 295 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,560 >> Yes, ma'am. 296 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:30,560 >> The C of A has to be approved within 75 days of the item, the date it's posted. 297 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,520 >> Okay. Thank you. 298 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,920 >> I'll make a motion. I would -- sorry, Lenny, do you have something? 299 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:47,200 >> No, I was just going to ask how could we approve with a possibility of something? Yes. 300 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,880 >> That's what I was going to try to suggest is I was going to make a motion that we approve 301 00:31:51,880 --> 00:32:00,160 subject to them placing them further from the east facing wall towards the back so that 302 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,640 it's not quite as obtrusive on the overall neighborhood view. 303 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,440 >> Okay, Mary, that sounds like a motion. Do we have a second? 304 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,480 >> I'll second. 305 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,920 >> With the motion a second, now we can move to discussion. 306 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:20,920 >> Does that motion mean that if there's something that we have overlooked that caused them to 307 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:27,640 place them this way in the first place, that they won't have an option? 308 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,200 >> I'm looking at their plans that they submitted. It looks like the green boxes are labeled 309 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:40,640 electrical equipment, and that might be because it's close to the garage. It looks like that's 310 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:48,960 the garage. That's the only information that I can provide that may provide a reason why 311 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,480 they located there, but again, I'm not a solar panel expert, and maybe that can be relocated 312 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,960 to the other side of that and possibly be okay, but I'm not sure. 313 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640 >> I was going to say, I think that we don't have the information. There's probably a reason, 314 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:11,120 but maybe where the main feed for their electrical comes into the house and to locate on the 315 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,960 back panels, they might have to run a whole lot more wiring. There may be some complications 316 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,240 we're not aware of as to why they located on that side. 317 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,640 >> Not my problem. They should have told me. 318 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:30,400 >> They may have told us staff, and it just not got -- 319 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:38,060 >> Our condition could be that they work with staff to relocate as many on the southern 320 00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:42,880 east-facing wall as possible, and then let our staff sort of work with them and see if 321 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,520 we can't move six or seven that way and then let the staff use their judgment. That could 322 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:54,400 be our condition is that we want to move as many of them as they can. 323 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:55,400 >> Or the west wall. 324 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,400 >> We can tell them to move them off. 325 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,400 >> The south wall. 326 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,160 >> The south eastern roof, yeah, the far -- 327 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,320 >> Yeah, you don't want to just specify east. They could also put it on the back side too, 328 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,920 the south-facing side. 329 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,040 >> I think we all know what we're heading is move some of them to the other east-facing 330 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:17,840 roof on the south of the house. I guess we ought to ask legal if that's a valid condition 331 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,760 to a motion. 332 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:26,240 >> Mr. Chair, it seems to me that you can add conditions to the approval. I think it 333 00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:34,120 would just be specific enough where the staff could convey that to the applicant. 334 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:43,760 >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Now, discussion. That's fairly vague instructions to staff. 335 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,360 But if they came back and said we can't do it and here's our eight reasons, it's probably 336 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:53,280 going to get approved anyway. Am I -- I mean, that's sort of our history the last couple 337 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,840 of years is to approve these. I like the idea of asking them to move them. The question 338 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,560 is do you want to see them back here in a month? 339 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:08,920 >> I would think that we could let staff deal with it but highly suggest that it's so visible 340 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,360 and, you know, they're kind of -- I'm sorry. The panels currently are not designer-friendly. 341 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,160 They're not very attractive. That's the best I can say. And so they're so visible on that 342 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,320 east side. I've been up and down that street before. It would be nice if they just moved 343 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:30,920 them back and then all would be good. And sometimes what I found on here is that most 344 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,000 of the time people haven't thought like that, you know? Like one of the houses we did before 345 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,200 with the railing and the banister and the door, they just had some contractor come and say 346 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,600 this is it. And I think if you give them a chance, they might actually be amenable to 347 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,600 making it attractive. >> Okay. So -- 348 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,480 >> We're comfortable with Ron and the staff working with them and trying to get it moved 349 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,680 a little bit because that way we're helpful but yet we try and get our -- and I guess 350 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,600 if they don't move any of them, we'll just know next time to agree to a vague condition, 351 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:09,240 not to agree to that. Okay. Fine. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? 352 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:17,840 >> I would only ask if the -- if our motion as it was stated will allow for that flexibility 353 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:26,560 and approval without further change. >> Yes, I believe so. That was a point of 354 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:33,520 the condition is to be flexible. Work with staff to move as many of the panels as practical 355 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:41,160 to the east-facing southern part of the roof. Any other questions? 356 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,320 >> I was just going to add, and I do this at almost every meeting, has anybody looked 357 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,120 at it on Google Maps? Or does anybody really know that street? Because -- 358 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,960 >> I've gotten Google pulled up. What's the street address? 359 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,560 >> Is it 2025 Houston Place? >> I have. I've gone down Houston Place. And 360 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:03,120 what happens if you're coming from the east to west, there's a rise. And so it comes from 361 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:08,560 a low point up. And that's why those panels show so much is that they really -- they would 362 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,280 be right in -- kind of you'd be seeing them. I mean, some of them might be less shown, 363 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,960 but there's -- you know, I can remember when all it was was a pile of weeds at certain 364 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,600 points in front of that house. So I'm glad it looks so much nicer now. But there's no 365 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,880 trees around this. So it's not like that's going to be a block for them. 366 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,200 >> But I mean, you know, as to the question of is there an adverse effect on the architecture 367 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:37,560 of the building or the district, well, I mean, that street -- it's a 94 house anyway. And 368 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,120 so the solar panels aren't going to have an adverse effect on the architecture of the 369 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,120 building. >> It is in the district. 370 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,840 >> I don't think it's going to stick out at all. So I don't really have a problem with 371 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,480 this. >> It's in the district. The other houses in 372 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,600 that neighborhood are, in fact, much older. That is the sore thumb of the entire neighborhood. 373 00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:00,560 In fact, it looks so different. It's the gray brick. It's so stark without trees. 374 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,560 >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay. 375 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,240 >> Yeah. The house itself has the adverse effect. So -- 376 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:12,560 >> All right. Well, so let's -- we've had a motion in a second. Any further discussion? 377 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,280 Seeing none, Mary, your vote. >> Aye. I favor it. 378 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,040 >> Aye. >> Lennie? 379 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,920 >> Aye. >> Evan? 380 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,640 >> Aye. >> Angie and Melody are, I believe, still 381 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,640 absent. Katie? 382 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,640 >> Yes. >> Cassandra? 383 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,640 >> Aye. >> Cassandra, aye. 384 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:39,160 >> Aye. >> Roy is aye. So we have seven ayes, zero 385 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:46,320 nays and two absents. And so the motion passes. 386 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:55,440 And I believe that gets us to the end of our agenda for today. I don't -- I believe -- well, 387 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,560 do we need a motion to adjourn from legal? I don't know that we do or not. 388 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:04,880 >> I move to adjourn. >> Chair, if I can add one comment real quick. 389 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:10,160 Just want to give you all an update. The home that had the storm shelter that -- 390 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:15,040 >> I was going to ask you about that. >> We postponed to a date certain. The applicant 391 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,040 actually withdrew their application. Therefore, there was no reason to bring it forward at 392 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,480 that time. So they decided not to do anything with that storm shelter at this moment. So 393 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,400 I just want to give you all an update on what happened. The other ones that were denied, 394 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,120 we have not heard back from the applicant. So we're still waiting. If anything changes, 395 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:40,400 they propose something different, then that will be a new COA for the HLC to consider. 396 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,520 >> Thank you, Chair. >> We had a motion and a second for adjournment. 397 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,880 Everybody in favor, just raise your hand. There are no opposed. So we stand adjourned. 398 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,440 >> My hand is up even though you can't see it. >> Yeah, you went away.