WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.980 Okay, I'd like to call the September 18th meeting of the Civil Service Commission to 00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:25.340 order at 3.36, 3.35 p.m. First order of business is introduction of guests. We're all, we've 00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:31.240 all seen each other time and time again, so I guess there's really probably not any official 00:00:31.240 --> 00:00:40.280 guests. So if you feel slighted, let me know. I'll be happy to introduce you. Second order 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:47.640 of business is to receive public comments. It's my understanding that we have no comments 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:58.320 either written or call in. Okay, so we'll move on. Next order of business is to consider 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:06.320 the approval of the minute from the July 9th meeting. Commissioner Baines, I would entertain 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:15.600 a motion that we accept the minutes. I move that we accept the minutes as presented. I 00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:20.280 will second it. Did you see anything? Were there any discussion? Was there anything that 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:28.400 we didn't, that wasn't correct? I was not aware of anything. I didn't see anything either, 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:46.680 so. All right. So there's Lillian. Yep. Welcome. We're approving the minutes, Lillian. Okay. 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:56.880 Did you see anything? No, I didn't see anything. Did the minutes need to be changed? No. So 00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:04.240 all in favor of approval of the minutes of the July 9th meeting, say aye. Aye. Opposed? 00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:18.920 All right. Passed. Next order of business is the certifying the police recruit list on 00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:33.920 your agenda. So I will defer to police. Jason, or Chief, do you want to make any comments 00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:45.920 about the list? I just want to kind of point out, if you can hear me, this test was the 00:02:45.920 --> 00:02:51.580 most diverse and the largest testing pool that we've had since we moved back into the 00:02:51.580 --> 00:02:57.780 position in January of 2018. We're really happy with it. We had a lot of female testers 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:03.840 and a lot of diversity in the test list. So we're going to be sitting on about 17 positions 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:11.120 to fill. So hopefully we'll be able to get a good talent pool off of this one. I was 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:17.640 going to say the same thing. This was probably the most pleasant surprise to walk into that 00:03:17.640 --> 00:03:24.280 Saturday morning, having 83 people show up and the diversity that cannot be underscored 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:33.000 enough. That was just amazing to see. So I was really happy. 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:41.340 Commissioners, do you have questions about the list? 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:48.000 I did not have a question. No, I don't. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:55.120 All right. I would entertain a motion that we accept and approve the certified recruit 00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:04.320 list as listed in the agenda. I'll motion that we approve the list as listed. 00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:08.120 Okay. I'll second. I'm sorry. 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:13.800 That's all right. Any other any further discussion? Comments? 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:21.920 I was just going to say that I probably echo the I'm glad to see so much diversity and 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:28.320 not just ethnicity, but also gender. I was looking at just at the people who had failed 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:38.320 and it seems like it's pretty across the board. I think six Hispanic males out of or 18 passed 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:45.560 or six out of 18 failed. It's it would have been the lower number failed. 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:53.480 All right. So six males out of 18. Yeah, we had a really good turnout. And one 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:58.480 thing I noticed about two weeks ago is that the testing company did not originally offer 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:05.000 a study guide, but they have started offering a study guide through their website for $20 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:13.400 an online study guide. So when we get our next exam approved and put on the website, 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:18.000 I'm going to have a link to that study guide also added on there. And I think that is helping 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:22.680 applicants. I was recommending the study guide for anybody that called the last two to three 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:26.200 weeks when we found they added. That's awesome. 00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:31.920 Yeah. Our pass rate went up pretty good. Pretty good bet on this test. 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.760 That's good. I think that's a really good start to trying to level that, you know, playing 00:05:35.760 --> 00:05:40.040 field of people that don't have others that, you know, already in the field that would 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:45.040 that could be able to direct them. This is my chronic, I have a question. Are 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:50.600 we or is the vendor charging for that study guide? Because, you know, some people may 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:56.200 not be able to afford it. Is that you have to pay to get that? Or is that something that 00:05:56.200 --> 00:06:00.000 we're just making available to anyone? They're just making available online and 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.840 it's $20. So it's not something that we pay for currently. And it's available in online 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:11.680 format. It doesn't look like they offer it in like a written format or a printed format 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.840 rather. Okay. Yeah, because if we were offering it, 00:06:15.840 --> 00:06:18.880 we certainly couldn't charge people. Right. 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:25.320 Yeah. Okay. You know, that might be Jason, that might 00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:31.400 be something or Chief Dixon might be something to negotiate with them the next time you talk 00:06:31.400 --> 00:06:38.960 with them. I mean, to provide that, we're buying the test from them. They ought to at 00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:47.000 least put a study guide with it. It's my own personal thoughts, but might be worth asking 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:51.760 the question. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable that a test 00:06:51.760 --> 00:06:57.680 that we're administering somebody should have to pay for a study guide and someone else 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:02.640 might not, they're taking the same test. So it just was a concern for me when I heard 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:07.000 that people were having to pay for that. Because in a sense, would that give someone who paid 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:12.640 for it, I won't say an unfair advantage, but an advantage? So just something that kind 00:07:12.640 --> 00:07:18.960 of struck me is problematic, as you pointed out, Mr. Ramsey, or concerning, maybe not 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:23.120 problematic. Well, the test itself does come with a study 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:30.880 guide. When they initially come in to test, they're giving a short study guide and 25 00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:36.160 minutes to study that before the exam. This is an additional optional study material along 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:41.480 the lines of what you would find online with Amazon or such. In the past, I've recommended 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:46.160 that people, you know, check with the bookseller of their choice and just get a police entrance 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:52.880 exam study guide because they're somewhat standard in their, you know, areas of coverage. But 00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:57.880 if the vendor offers one, you know, if I was going to take the test, I would take the vendors 00:07:57.880 --> 00:08:05.200 over something that was off the shelf. So, and those run about $16 to $20 ish, you know, 00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:12.160 if you go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon and looked at them. I would have no issue with, 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:17.520 you know, talking to the vendor and seeing if we had, like, maybe could get, you know, 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:22.560 purchase a number of codes for those study guides or something. The problem comes when 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:29.200 you have, you know, we had 177 sign up for the exam and 83 showed. And that's pretty 00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:35.420 typical you have. For us, it's normally in the range of about 200 that sign up and then 00:08:35.420 --> 00:08:43.040 50 to 70 show. So, you know, how many codes do you buy? How much money do you spend on 00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:50.220 those? You don't want to waste money on codes that you don't end up using. 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:54.520 >> You alleviated my concerns a little bit when you said everyone has access to a study 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:59.800 guide. And if there's something above and beyond, then you can pay for that. So, that 00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:01.800 kind of alleviated it a little bit. >> Yeah. 00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:02.800 >> Okay. >> I agree. 00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:08.000 >> And I think if you're making the link accessible to everyone, like, the knowledge is there. 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.320 This is there to help you if you want to do it, you know, this is where you can go. I 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.880 think that's enough. I mean, you know, there's other people that pay $80 a month for a cell 00:09:16.880 --> 00:09:20.040 phone if you -- you know what I mean? Like, if this is something that you want, like, you'll 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:24.080 be able to help. I wonder in the future, I don't know if this is even possible, but I 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:29.360 was just thinking, you know, if there's -- you know, if there was something under the link 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:34.800 that said if money is an issue, please contact, you know, this, that would put it in the person's 00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:39.320 hand to say, hey, if money is an issue, you know, maybe there's, like, a few scholarships, 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.740 like, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm thinking LULAC could donate, you know, 20 -- codes 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:47.480 to 20 study guides, you know, and make them accessible to you and you distribute as you 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:51.920 would wish. Does that make sense? But it would still be in the hands of, like, the recruit 00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:56.800 or the person potentially taking the test to go -- to call and say I have a hardship 00:09:56.800 --> 00:10:01.400 that I'd really like a code, you know, anything like that. 00:10:01.400 --> 00:10:10.080 >> Yeah. Well, I think, again, just if you can -- so that you can find out, it would 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:15.680 be nice -- like, as Michael said, it was, you know, having some kind of a study guide 00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:21.720 for everybody to have a sense of what kinds of questions are on there, that type of thing. 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:27.020 That's good. >> That's only 25 minutes. That's 25 minutes 00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:30.160 before the test. >> Yeah, that's kind of weird. Couldn't 00:10:30.160 --> 00:10:36.520 that be -- could that be -- I mean -- >> That's the way the test is set up and that's 00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:42.120 a pretty standard -- when I tested in 1993, certainly not the same company, I'm sure, 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:47.160 but it was the same sort of thing. You go in and you get a study guide to study for 00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:51.920 25 minutes. And part of that in itself is the test to 00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:57.960 test your reading comprehension and your retention and your ability to recite details. So it's 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:01.320 all structured as, you know, sort of part of the test, even though the study guide's 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:06.640 not scored. There's no way for us to give those out earlier. 00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:10.320 It's all sealed, the test and the study guide, everything's sealed and we hand them out at 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:18.300 the time of the seal. What I could do is, you know, I could see 00:11:18.300 --> 00:11:24.360 what the cost would be, you know, if I could purchase a number of codes or something and 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.280 then if somebody requested that online study guide, I could issue them a code, I could 00:11:28.280 --> 00:11:33.120 check into that with the company. You know, see what they offer, at least. I'll be glad 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:36.600 to do that. This is pretty new. It's just something that 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:40.560 I happened to notice the other day, you know, two, three weeks ago. 00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:47.600 Well, I noticed, I know that some of the study, some of the standardized tests give us, they 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:52.800 have a study guide that they produce, but then as you say, you can always go to your 00:11:52.800 --> 00:12:02.720 local bookstore and buy lots and lots and lots of books that talk about further information. 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:12.720 So but at least something's available to them. All right. Any other comments on the test? 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:20.200 Just a couple of comments. In looking at the demographics, I see we only had three African 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:27.040 American males to pass, we had two to fail. And in one of my interactions with the police 00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:36.120 department in another capacity, a comment was made that in the current environment there's 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:41.800 a little difficulty recruiting on the college campuses. So we've got that side. And then 00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:46.840 the other side is we had a higher than expected turnout. Any idea of kind of what's going 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:51.260 on here? You know, the current environment, the current 00:12:51.260 --> 00:12:59.640 environment is a little difficult. It's a little difficult. And so I'm just trying to 00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:04.360 get a grasp, my arms around what's going on here, or maybe another perspective if you 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:08.800 might. For us, recruiting has been difficult since 00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:15.120 March. Essentially every recruiting event that we normally participate in has been canceled 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:22.320 because of COVID. So we've done some virtual things and put some information out there, 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:29.480 social media, which may have helped our drive. Whereas before we had to, it was a little 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:34.480 tougher for us to advertise like on Facebook and Instagram and get our recruiting flyers 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:39.060 out and such. But we have all that sort of programmed in now where it auto goes out every 00:13:39.060 --> 00:13:46.160 few days. And we tend to get hits on those in registrations whenever those go out. 00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:52.280 So I think some of it could be, you know, there could be a ton of reasons. There could 00:13:52.280 --> 00:13:57.760 be some pushback that people see a lot of civil unrest and they feel like they want 00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:03.880 to step up and be part of the solution. I think some of it could be economic. When you 00:14:03.880 --> 00:14:09.960 see economic downturns and certainly with COVID, the economy is not in a great place. 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:17.720 That tends to drive more people into public service exams because there's jobs to be had. 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:23.520 That could be some of it, but we really don't know. It could be a combination of those things. 00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:29.240 It's just, you know, maybe a little bit of a fluke. But we've definitely upped our game 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:34.440 in our advertising. And so maybe we're getting some hits from that. 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:38.480 Thank you, Jason. Like I said, I was, you know, one of my other conversations, there 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.800 was a remark made that, you know, the current environment has made it a little difficult 00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:51.680 on the college campuses. And I'm glad to hear that we had a good recruiting class. And we 00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:55.640 have a great number of candidates. And so we'll just continue to look at it and see 00:14:55.640 --> 00:14:57.520 what's happening. Thank you. 00:14:57.520 --> 00:14:58.520 Yes, sir. 00:14:58.520 --> 00:15:02.800 You know, it would be interesting when that is the age of these candidates. I don't, you 00:15:02.800 --> 00:15:06.280 know, I'm just wondering, maybe we're not recruiting college. Maybe these are older, 00:15:06.280 --> 00:15:11.760 like you said, people that are looking for a second career because the first, you know, 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:15.560 is no longer available because of COVID. 00:15:15.560 --> 00:15:16.680 Interesting. 00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:21.880 That's all I have, Mr. Chair. 00:15:21.880 --> 00:15:30.100 Any other discussion? All right. Let's move on then to the fire department promotional 00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:36.120 exam materials. Mike, is that you? 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:43.520 Yes, sir. It is. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey. So you have the list in front of you. Hopefully 00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:49.960 this is easy as we haven't added anything new. We moved some of the leadership books 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:56.000 around. There are two new additions to two of the books, but as far as the names of the 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:03.320 content that didn't change. So I believe the first list you have is fire battalion chief. 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:10.480 On that list, we added step up and lead the leadership book to that list. The rest of 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:19.620 that list are the books that were on it last year. On the fire captain list. So we're kind 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:26.200 of adopt this philosophy of rotating these leadership books. So fire captain, it had 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:32.360 extreme ownership on it last year. We're putting step up and lead on it this year. And fire 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:38.640 drivers the opposite, but so fire captain, captain removed extreme ownership, which was 00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:44.200 on there last year added step up and lead and fire officer's handbook of tactics that 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:50.800 has a new edition. It's the it was previously the fourth edition, and it's been updated 00:16:50.800 --> 00:16:59.160 with a fifth edition and a new copyright date. So we updated that book. Fire driver. As I 00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:04.520 was talking about the leadership books, we removed step up and lead from last year and 00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:14.560 added extreme ownership. Okay. And the fire driver list also has fire officers handbook 00:17:14.560 --> 00:17:22.100 of tactics. It's updated to the fifth edition and fire inspector principles and practice. 00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:31.400 It has a new edition as well. It's called the first revised enhanced first edition. 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.920 I don't know why they didn't make it addition to but anyway, it's got a new copyright date 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:47.840 of 2016 from the previous one was 2012. So that edition of that looks been updated. Okay. 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:52.280 Those are the only changes the rest of those books on those lists are the ones you all 00:17:52.280 --> 00:18:09.440 saw last year. Any any questions for fire on the on the promotional list? No. My question 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:17.440 is this. In comparison to previous years, is this pretty much a similar group of information? 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:24.160 Are we emphasizing something over previous years or we're just basically, I don't want 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:30.880 to say status quo, but did you feel like the presentation and the emphasis was sufficient? 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:37.260 Are we emphasizing anything different this time? This is similar. This list is similar 00:18:37.260 --> 00:18:48.480 to to 2020 and 2019. You know, and that's kind of the list changed significantly with 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:56.160 the change in our fire chief. But as far as the content, you're asking about the content, 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:03.780 you know, we each rank has obviously specific content. Fire driver has, you know, the pumping 00:19:03.780 --> 00:19:12.560 and aerial apparatus book, you know, but they each, you know, prepare you obviously for higher 00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:20.560 ranks. So as far as the content, it's pretty consistent. I mean, we may change the books, 00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:28.000 you know, that the building construction related to the fire service book that's on fire driver 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.800 and fire captain's list. That's a different building construction book than we then we've 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:40.440 used in the past. But it covers, it covers the same the same content, you know, the same 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:49.760 material that we need to know. Thank you, Mike. Yes, sir. All right. Any other questions? 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:57.320 I would entertain a motion that we accept the promotional source materials for fire. 00:19:57.320 --> 00:20:06.600 I'll make that motion. I'll second system. Make sure there any other discussion that we 00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:15.040 need to have as a commission. Seeing good. I'm like running late today. I'm still hot 00:20:15.040 --> 00:20:22.440 for me outside. And the so the source material goes hand in hand with the test, right? Because 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.200 the stuff the test is still being purchased from another vendor, but they're making sure 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.520 to use all this source material or how did that get double checked to make sure that 00:20:29.520 --> 00:20:36.880 it's those hand in hand? Yes, ma'am. That is correct. The they will use this source material 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.320 to create the questions that go on our test. Okay, so they create the test from what what 00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:48.680 you give them. I didn't know that I thought we're buying tests that were already pre written. 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:55.360 They actually create question banks of questions for us. And then we'll select questions from 00:20:55.360 --> 00:21:09.120 that, that that bank to put on the test. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Any other discussion questions? 00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:18.840 All in favor of approval of the promotional material for five departments say aye. Aye. 00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:28.760 Aye. Next police department promotional exam materials source materials who's hanging handling 00:21:28.760 --> 00:21:39.200 that one on the police side. Michael, is that you? It certainly can be in my in my muted. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:43.560 Not not now. I was going to defer to Chief Dixon if he wanted to chime in. But if he 00:21:43.560 --> 00:21:54.000 does not, I will. Michael, you're the director of training. Yes, sir. We made some very similar 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.260 to the fire department, which I thought is interesting. We took some some of the material 00:21:58.260 --> 00:22:04.720 that has been on the promotional source material list for several years and removed it and 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:10.800 put in some that are more reflective of where our organization is going. And they're certainly 00:22:10.800 --> 00:22:16.800 more contemporary works. And the fire department mentioned extreme ownership. We actually added 00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:24.240 that to the sergeant's list for one of our source materials this year. And the lieutenant's 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:33.200 list got added a book called Who Moved My Cheese. Yeah, that one's been around for a 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:41.280 while. It's a good book, though. We Chief Dixon informed the committee to make recommendations 00:22:41.280 --> 00:22:48.320 and we that's how the source material list was presented or gathered. That's we shared 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:53.320 ideas and we talked about a number of things. And, you know, I'm pretty very I'm very pleased 00:22:53.320 --> 00:22:57.320 with the list that we have or the source material list that we have because we were using some 00:22:57.320 --> 00:23:02.840 materials that were really dated and they didn't really align with the values of our 00:23:02.840 --> 00:23:08.640 organization. All they were testing were candidates ability to regurgitate information that we 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:15.200 didn't really use day to day. And so I like what we've come up with. I think it will do 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:26.840 well for us. Is it the only question that I would have is are these the latest additions? 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:35.760 Well, as far as I know, there's only one edition of Who Moved My Cheese and that's the original 00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:42.880 90 and the extreme ownership. Yes, there is a new version of that book that has just recently 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:50.760 come out, but it's they call it the updated version of the first edition. Okay, but everything 00:23:50.760 --> 00:24:00.160 all the other content is basically the must update must updated materials. Correct. Yes, 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:08.720 sir. Okay. I have a question for Michael. Yes, sir. Michael, I'm looking at that first 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.800 book for lieutenants. It says the president's task force on 21st century policing and it 00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:25.840 was 2015. So kind of what do we gather? What do we gain from a book like that? That was 00:24:25.840 --> 00:24:30.240 the recommendation that came from Dr. Williams. I know you've worked with him on some projects 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:38.000 in the past and the president's task force on 21st century policing has the pillars of 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:43.720 modern policing in it. And that is what we're getting from that. That's it's very much in 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:50.960 alignment with what Chief Dixon brings in with his leadership and with the accreditation 00:24:50.960 --> 00:25:03.720 process. Thank you very much. And Lillian, you're you're muted. I was just going to mention 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:10.720 that I tried to go on that page and the page says the page cannot be found. I don't know 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:18.120 if that's the wrong link. Or maybe it's just out of date that it just says sorry, the page 00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:24.720 you're looking for can't be found. Yeah, I just checked it myself. It worked when I created 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:36.280 this page, but I will I'll get we can get the link thing certainly. Any other discussion 00:25:36.280 --> 00:25:43.320 and any other questions? We entertain a motion that we approve the promotional materials 00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:54.680 for the police department 2020. I'm in commission that we approve this source material for police. 00:25:54.680 --> 00:26:03.120 Thank you. I'll happily second her motion. Okay. Any other discussion? Not all in favor 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:15.680 say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes. Next order of business neck on the agenda 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:27.600 is the LA for police police recruit. Who's going to that one, Jason? Sir, I'll handle 00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:34.160 it. So as you know, we had to cancel our May exam and reschedule till September because 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:43.720 of COVID and Academy cancellation. It's awesome sort of reorganization in our Academy processes. 00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:49.600 So the idea for that exam is our next Academy will start January 4th, which is what we want 00:26:49.600 --> 00:26:56.600 to hire for the off of the current list. And the plan is to have an exam immediately after 00:26:56.600 --> 00:27:01.200 the Academy starts. So that gives us a maximum amount of time to work that list and hire 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:06.920 for our following Academy. And I think, you know, it's a pretty quick exam as opposed 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:13.440 to normally doing them about six months apart, but we're trying to kind of get back on track 00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:20.120 next January. And the idea is to hold an exam to Saturday after each Academy starts so we 00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:24.080 can get the list certified and have the maximum amount of time available between Academies 00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:34.200 to hire off of that list and hopefully process every applicant on the list. Questions? I 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:43.680 noticed that we still have as a requirement the 30 years of college credit. I seem to 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:48.640 remember that we had some discussion about possibly removing that. Am I making that up? 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:55.480 It could be. I don't recall that. We require 30 college hours or two years active duty 00:27:55.480 --> 00:28:01.360 military in lieu of that. And that's, you know, a department standard. We actually did 00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:07.760 reduce the college requirement from 60 hours to 30 hours. We reduced the military requirement 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:14.760 to two years because they offer two year infantry contracts. There's, you know, many agencies 00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:21.960 still do 60, 30 bachelor's degrees. It's kind of all over the place depending on the agency, 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:30.160 but ours was actually reduced last year down to 30 from 60. Lillian, we did have that conversation 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.560 in the use of force about a change and so we're probably, you know. Getting my wires 00:28:37.560 --> 00:28:51.380 crossed. Your wires never get crossed. All right. Other discussion? Is the link on here, 00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:57.720 is this where the link would go that would show how to purchase that setting guide? If 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:03.200 you go to the Denton Police main page and in the middle of that page there's a tab that 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:09.640 says join Denton PD. When you click on that tab, the following page is where the registration 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:14.040 link for the test is when it's open. There's not a link there right now because we don't 00:29:14.040 --> 00:29:19.380 have a, we don't have the test approved. They'll go back up. And then where the registration 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:24.600 link is, is where I'll request the webmaster put in the link to the study guide. Is there 00:29:24.600 --> 00:29:32.360 not a way that we could include the link here on the sheet that's going out? I don't know 00:29:32.360 --> 00:29:39.600 how you would do that specifically. I'm not that techy. When I try and, you know, just 00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:45.300 copy and paste the link to the study guide, it's a big long string of numbers and letters 00:29:45.300 --> 00:29:54.120 and characters and all of that. So. That would be maybe something for the distributor just 00:29:54.120 --> 00:29:58.800 to say, hey, is there an easier link that you guys could like a hyperlink with a different 00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:06.400 title that could be used? Yeah. I'm just hoping that line. I've got to talk to the, the city, 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:12.720 you know, the city webmaster handles everything. It all goes through city hall. So I'm just 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:18.400 going to request and ask if they can put that link up on that join Denton PD page in a, 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:25.400 you know, in a prominent place where people can see that and have access to it. 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:36.440 Okay. Any other questions? So when, when would this one go live? I'm sorry. So it's for January 00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:41.800 9th. So when would it go live on the webpage? When we get approval from the commission for 00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:48.920 the exam, I send the information to the webmaster when we get the signed POA and probably my 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:53.480 guess would be Monday. If even if I send it to them today, it's late enough during the 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.920 day, then it'll probably be Monday before it goes up. 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:02.440 There's like, there's like three or four months that they have to. Yes. Okay. Cool. 00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:13.320 Chairman Ramsey, I did have one more question regarding this. It seems like in some of our 00:31:13.320 --> 00:31:17.440 discussions that we had offline where you were being interviewed about things that were 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:22.400 going on, you know, back in July, where we kind of had the individual meetings, there 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.480 was some discussion about something that we were interested in changing before the next 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:31.640 recruiting class. And I can't remember what it was. Do you remember Lillian? It was something 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:42.000 that you had brought up implementing some changes and information that would go forward. 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:47.440 We seem to spend a good bit of time on it this summer. So I don't remember it. I apologize, 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:52.920 but I do remember it was tied to the next recruiting class. And so I thought we'd at 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:58.720 least maybe refresh ourselves at this time to make sure we were all in sync regarding 00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:04.840 that matter. I mean, I think the bulk of the conversation 00:32:04.840 --> 00:32:09.800 that I remember from those meetings was just, you know, that we understood and that the 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:14.640 people that were taking any kind of assessments would understand that and really I thought 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:20.160 it was more for the promotional people would understand that we have to abide by, you know, 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:25.320 what's written in the study, I mean, or what's written in the book. I don't know, Stephanie, 00:32:25.320 --> 00:32:30.080 if you remember something else. I have a lot in my head, but I can't remember. 00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:36.560 Yeah, I think it was one of those. I think we did. We did mention maybe from the vendor 00:32:36.560 --> 00:32:44.720 is, is attempting to get maybe more questions to put in the bank so we can have an opportunity 00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:52.040 to review and pick issues and maybe some good questions. Some questions here with the police 00:32:52.040 --> 00:32:58.600 department and the fire department prefer. But I think that was it. I can't recall anything 00:32:58.600 --> 00:33:02.680 else. I do. I do remember also, it was on the promotional 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:06.120 exams, but I don't know if it's in the recruit that we talked about potential interviews 00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:14.880 serving as, you know, some kind of, you know, some, some that I would have that an interview 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:19.760 would have some kind of weight, you know, not just these entrance exams, but that may 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:24.320 be a potential interview or a panel might have some kind of weight in the points and 00:33:24.320 --> 00:33:28.480 how they're allocated. I think everything else that I've kind of been advocating for 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:34.240 is just going back to the meet and confer whenever that's going to be, you know, reviewed 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:40.800 again about potentially adding points for skills that are not easy to come by like bilingual, 00:33:40.800 --> 00:33:45.320 bilingualism, but I mean, that won't happen until the next meeting. 00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:54.520 Yeah, I think our discussion was, was primarily in the promotional and we didn't, we had, 00:33:54.520 --> 00:34:02.280 we did approve one POA, I think, but we didn't, there wasn't a lot of discussion. I didn't 00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:09.680 think about any significant issues. So we did a lot about the POA. I mean, I'm sorry 00:34:09.680 --> 00:34:15.840 about the promotional exams. Yeah, I mean, I do think, you know, I think 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.320 the study guide will be a welcome addition. I think that might level the playing field 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:24.440 for some people. I was doing the numbers here again. I had my notes at home, but I was doing 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:30.520 the numbers again. And, you know, for black males, 67% of them failed the exam, you know, 00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:36.200 for Hispanic females, 67% of them failed the exam. The numbers kind of flip flop. Hispanic 00:34:36.200 --> 00:34:44.640 males, 33% of them failed the exam, black females, 29%, 31% of black, 31% of white males 00:34:44.640 --> 00:34:50.720 failed the exam, which is pretty comparable to Hispanic males and black females and 100% 00:34:50.720 --> 00:34:54.720 of white females passed. So as I'm looking at that, I know that there's tons of other 00:34:54.720 --> 00:34:59.960 factors, you know, but if I'm looking at just trying to, you know, level the playing field, 00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:04.720 if it's a $20 thing, if it was a $200, you know, testing guide, I would definitely advocate 00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:10.240 more for what can we do. But if it's a $20, you know, study guide that might help them 00:35:10.240 --> 00:35:14.860 to get their foot in the door and score a higher score. I mean, as long as it's made 00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:19.360 accessible to everyone, as long as everybody knows how to find that, you know, then I feel 00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:23.200 pretty good about that. Because at some point, you know, everybody has to take their own 00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:26.840 initiative. But, you know, as just as I look at these numbers, I'm like, man, there's a 00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:33.800 huge difference between white males and black males, 31 to 67%. You know, white females 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:40.520 to Hispanic females, 67% compared to 0% fail. It can't just be ability, natural ability. 00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:44.440 There has to be something else that's factoring into that. So that's my only concern with 00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:51.040 these entry level civil service exams. I think everything else was more so in the promotional. 00:35:51.040 --> 00:36:01.520 Thank you, Lillian, for those statistics. I didn't take it to that extent, but I did 00:36:01.520 --> 00:36:06.800 notice that there was a disparity there. So thank you for the amplification. 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:15.560 Any other discussion? I would entertain a motion that we approve the police recruit 00:36:15.560 --> 00:36:30.440 DOA. I'll second. I'll second. Any further discussion? Not. All in favor say aye. Aye. 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:38.960 Opposed? Motion passes. Next order of business on the agenda is the next Civil Service Commission 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:54.640 meeting. Let's see. Crystal? Sir. I do believe we will need to have one because I know we'll 00:36:54.640 --> 00:37:04.320 have police promotion testing to post, correct, Lieutenant? Yes, that is correct. Okay. So 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:12.600 looking at the calendar, so that'd be in October. I'm sorry, when will that, when are we doing 00:37:12.600 --> 00:37:20.960 that promotional test? I don't believe there's. Sourced materials got to be posted for 90 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:28.840 days, correct? Okay. 91 days from today takes us to December the 18th, which is a Friday. 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:44.240 The Monday following is December 21st. Not a big week of Christmas. Yeah, yeah. So really, 00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:49.800 do we not have anything? I mean, this is generally been a quieter time. It's usually the spring 00:37:49.800 --> 00:38:05.780 where we have our fun. So do we want to just schedule something and cancel it or? That's 00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:11.840 up to y'all. Now the source material has to be posted for 90 days, but we do have to post 00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:16.720 the actual test for 30 days. So if we're going to have a test in December or January, we 00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:23.760 need to have a meeting in either November or December. So we're recommending the next 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:35.320 meeting for December. December. You're proposing a meeting for December. November. November 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:46.000 and mid-December. November. Maybe early, earlier November. Yes. It's a little more difficult 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:55.280 now that we have to schedule the DTV aspect. Let's look at November. Okay. So that calendar, 00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:02.440 it looks like you have a few dates to pick from. Do y'all want to look at Fridays, Mondays? 00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:06.600 There's one Tuesday. Actually, no, there's not a Tuesday, but there is a Tuesday available, 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:11.960 but it's the week of Thanksgiving. So I don't think that would be a good Tuesday. So we're 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:22.800 looking at Thursday, Friday, or Monday. You're muted. Yes, I'm fine. Someone just walked 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:33.520 in. Oh, I thought you were talking to us. Why don't we send you the dates and we can 00:39:33.520 --> 00:39:40.640 look at our calendars and we're talking two months. I mean, we've got time to adjust our 00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:46.120 calendars, but you probably need to go ahead and set something up though. So send it soon. 00:39:46.120 --> 00:39:54.200 Will do. I'll send that today. Okay. Okay. Thank you. If there's nothing else for the 00:39:54.200 --> 00:40:04.320 good of the order, I would entertain a motion that we adjourn at 415. Is there a motion? 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:15.440 A motion that we adjourn. I'll second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you all. Thank 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:20.200 you all. Have a good weekend. Stay safe. Have a good weekend.