1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,980 Okay, I'd like to call the September 18th meeting of the Civil Service Commission to 2 00:00:09,980 --> 00:00:25,340 order at 3.36, 3.35 p.m. First order of business is introduction of guests. We're all, we've 3 00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:31,240 all seen each other time and time again, so I guess there's really probably not any official 4 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:40,280 guests. So if you feel slighted, let me know. I'll be happy to introduce you. Second order 5 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:47,640 of business is to receive public comments. It's my understanding that we have no comments 6 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:58,320 either written or call in. Okay, so we'll move on. Next order of business is to consider 7 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:06,320 the approval of the minute from the July 9th meeting. Commissioner Baines, I would entertain 8 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:15,600 a motion that we accept the minutes. I move that we accept the minutes as presented. I 9 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,280 will second it. Did you see anything? Were there any discussion? Was there anything that 10 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:28,400 we didn't, that wasn't correct? I was not aware of anything. I didn't see anything either, 11 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:46,680 so. All right. So there's Lillian. Yep. Welcome. We're approving the minutes, Lillian. Okay. 12 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:56,880 Did you see anything? No, I didn't see anything. Did the minutes need to be changed? No. So 13 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:04,240 all in favor of approval of the minutes of the July 9th meeting, say aye. Aye. Opposed? 14 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:18,920 All right. Passed. Next order of business is the certifying the police recruit list on 15 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:33,920 your agenda. So I will defer to police. Jason, or Chief, do you want to make any comments 16 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:45,920 about the list? I just want to kind of point out, if you can hear me, this test was the 17 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:51,580 most diverse and the largest testing pool that we've had since we moved back into the 18 00:02:51,580 --> 00:02:57,780 position in January of 2018. We're really happy with it. We had a lot of female testers 19 00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:03,840 and a lot of diversity in the test list. So we're going to be sitting on about 17 positions 20 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:11,120 to fill. So hopefully we'll be able to get a good talent pool off of this one. I was 21 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:17,640 going to say the same thing. This was probably the most pleasant surprise to walk into that 22 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:24,280 Saturday morning, having 83 people show up and the diversity that cannot be underscored 23 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:33,000 enough. That was just amazing to see. So I was really happy. 24 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:41,340 Commissioners, do you have questions about the list? 25 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:48,000 I did not have a question. No, I don't. 26 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:55,120 All right. I would entertain a motion that we accept and approve the certified recruit 27 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:04,320 list as listed in the agenda. I'll motion that we approve the list as listed. 28 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,120 Okay. I'll second. I'm sorry. 29 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,800 That's all right. Any other any further discussion? Comments? 30 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:21,920 I was just going to say that I probably echo the I'm glad to see so much diversity and 31 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:28,320 not just ethnicity, but also gender. I was looking at just at the people who had failed 32 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:38,320 and it seems like it's pretty across the board. I think six Hispanic males out of or 18 passed 33 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:45,560 or six out of 18 failed. It's it would have been the lower number failed. 34 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:53,480 All right. So six males out of 18. Yeah, we had a really good turnout. And one 35 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,480 thing I noticed about two weeks ago is that the testing company did not originally offer 36 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:05,000 a study guide, but they have started offering a study guide through their website for $20 37 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:13,400 an online study guide. So when we get our next exam approved and put on the website, 38 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,000 I'm going to have a link to that study guide also added on there. And I think that is helping 39 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,680 applicants. I was recommending the study guide for anybody that called the last two to three 40 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,200 weeks when we found they added. That's awesome. 41 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,920 Yeah. Our pass rate went up pretty good. Pretty good bet on this test. 42 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,760 That's good. I think that's a really good start to trying to level that, you know, playing 43 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,040 field of people that don't have others that, you know, already in the field that would 44 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,040 that could be able to direct them. This is my chronic, I have a question. Are 45 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,600 we or is the vendor charging for that study guide? Because, you know, some people may 46 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:56,200 not be able to afford it. Is that you have to pay to get that? Or is that something that 47 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,000 we're just making available to anyone? They're just making available online and 48 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,840 it's $20. So it's not something that we pay for currently. And it's available in online 49 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:11,680 format. It doesn't look like they offer it in like a written format or a printed format 50 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,840 rather. Okay. Yeah, because if we were offering it, 51 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,880 we certainly couldn't charge people. Right. 52 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:25,320 Yeah. Okay. You know, that might be Jason, that might 53 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:31,400 be something or Chief Dixon might be something to negotiate with them the next time you talk 54 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:38,960 with them. I mean, to provide that, we're buying the test from them. They ought to at 55 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:47,000 least put a study guide with it. It's my own personal thoughts, but might be worth asking 56 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,760 the question. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable that a test 57 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:57,680 that we're administering somebody should have to pay for a study guide and someone else 58 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,640 might not, they're taking the same test. So it just was a concern for me when I heard 59 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,000 that people were having to pay for that. Because in a sense, would that give someone who paid 60 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,640 for it, I won't say an unfair advantage, but an advantage? So just something that kind 61 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:18,960 of struck me is problematic, as you pointed out, Mr. Ramsey, or concerning, maybe not 62 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,120 problematic. Well, the test itself does come with a study 63 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:30,880 guide. When they initially come in to test, they're giving a short study guide and 25 64 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,160 minutes to study that before the exam. This is an additional optional study material along 65 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,480 the lines of what you would find online with Amazon or such. In the past, I've recommended 66 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,160 that people, you know, check with the bookseller of their choice and just get a police entrance 67 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:52,880 exam study guide because they're somewhat standard in their, you know, areas of coverage. But 68 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,880 if the vendor offers one, you know, if I was going to take the test, I would take the vendors 69 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:05,200 over something that was off the shelf. So, and those run about $16 to $20 ish, you know, 70 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:12,160 if you go to Barnes and Noble or Amazon and looked at them. I would have no issue with, 71 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:17,520 you know, talking to the vendor and seeing if we had, like, maybe could get, you know, 72 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:22,560 purchase a number of codes for those study guides or something. The problem comes when 73 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:29,200 you have, you know, we had 177 sign up for the exam and 83 showed. And that's pretty 74 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:35,420 typical you have. For us, it's normally in the range of about 200 that sign up and then 75 00:08:35,420 --> 00:08:43,040 50 to 70 show. So, you know, how many codes do you buy? How much money do you spend on 76 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:50,220 those? You don't want to waste money on codes that you don't end up using. 77 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:54,520 >> You alleviated my concerns a little bit when you said everyone has access to a study 78 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,800 guide. And if there's something above and beyond, then you can pay for that. So, that 79 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,800 kind of alleviated it a little bit. >> Yeah. 80 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:02,800 >> Okay. >> I agree. 81 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:08,000 >> And I think if you're making the link accessible to everyone, like, the knowledge is there. 82 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,320 This is there to help you if you want to do it, you know, this is where you can go. I 83 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,880 think that's enough. I mean, you know, there's other people that pay $80 a month for a cell 84 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,040 phone if you -- you know what I mean? Like, if this is something that you want, like, you'll 85 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,080 be able to help. I wonder in the future, I don't know if this is even possible, but I 86 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,360 was just thinking, you know, if there's -- you know, if there was something under the link 87 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:34,800 that said if money is an issue, please contact, you know, this, that would put it in the person's 88 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,320 hand to say, hey, if money is an issue, you know, maybe there's, like, a few scholarships, 89 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,740 like, you know, I don't know. Like, I'm thinking LULAC could donate, you know, 20 -- codes 90 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:47,480 to 20 study guides, you know, and make them accessible to you and you distribute as you 91 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,920 would wish. Does that make sense? But it would still be in the hands of, like, the recruit 92 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,800 or the person potentially taking the test to go -- to call and say I have a hardship 93 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,400 that I'd really like a code, you know, anything like that. 94 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:10,080 >> Yeah. Well, I think, again, just if you can -- so that you can find out, it would 95 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:15,680 be nice -- like, as Michael said, it was, you know, having some kind of a study guide 96 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:21,720 for everybody to have a sense of what kinds of questions are on there, that type of thing. 97 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:27,020 That's good. >> That's only 25 minutes. That's 25 minutes 98 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:30,160 before the test. >> Yeah, that's kind of weird. Couldn't 99 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:36,520 that be -- could that be -- I mean -- >> That's the way the test is set up and that's 100 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:42,120 a pretty standard -- when I tested in 1993, certainly not the same company, I'm sure, 101 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:47,160 but it was the same sort of thing. You go in and you get a study guide to study for 102 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,920 25 minutes. And part of that in itself is the test to 103 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,960 test your reading comprehension and your retention and your ability to recite details. So it's 104 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,320 all structured as, you know, sort of part of the test, even though the study guide's 105 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,640 not scored. There's no way for us to give those out earlier. 106 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,320 It's all sealed, the test and the study guide, everything's sealed and we hand them out at 107 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:18,300 the time of the seal. What I could do is, you know, I could see 108 00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:24,360 what the cost would be, you know, if I could purchase a number of codes or something and 109 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,280 then if somebody requested that online study guide, I could issue them a code, I could 110 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,120 check into that with the company. You know, see what they offer, at least. I'll be glad 111 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,600 to do that. This is pretty new. It's just something that 112 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,560 I happened to notice the other day, you know, two, three weeks ago. 113 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:47,600 Well, I noticed, I know that some of the study, some of the standardized tests give us, they 114 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,800 have a study guide that they produce, but then as you say, you can always go to your 115 00:11:52,800 --> 00:12:02,720 local bookstore and buy lots and lots and lots of books that talk about further information. 116 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:12,720 So but at least something's available to them. All right. Any other comments on the test? 117 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:20,200 Just a couple of comments. In looking at the demographics, I see we only had three African 118 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:27,040 American males to pass, we had two to fail. And in one of my interactions with the police 119 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:36,120 department in another capacity, a comment was made that in the current environment there's 120 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,800 a little difficulty recruiting on the college campuses. So we've got that side. And then 121 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,840 the other side is we had a higher than expected turnout. Any idea of kind of what's going 122 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,260 on here? You know, the current environment, the current 123 00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:59,640 environment is a little difficult. It's a little difficult. And so I'm just trying to 124 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,360 get a grasp, my arms around what's going on here, or maybe another perspective if you 125 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,800 might. For us, recruiting has been difficult since 126 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:15,120 March. Essentially every recruiting event that we normally participate in has been canceled 127 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:22,320 because of COVID. So we've done some virtual things and put some information out there, 128 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:29,480 social media, which may have helped our drive. Whereas before we had to, it was a little 129 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,480 tougher for us to advertise like on Facebook and Instagram and get our recruiting flyers 130 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,060 out and such. But we have all that sort of programmed in now where it auto goes out every 131 00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:46,160 few days. And we tend to get hits on those in registrations whenever those go out. 132 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:52,280 So I think some of it could be, you know, there could be a ton of reasons. There could 133 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:57,760 be some pushback that people see a lot of civil unrest and they feel like they want 134 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:03,880 to step up and be part of the solution. I think some of it could be economic. When you 135 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:09,960 see economic downturns and certainly with COVID, the economy is not in a great place. 136 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:17,720 That tends to drive more people into public service exams because there's jobs to be had. 137 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:23,520 That could be some of it, but we really don't know. It could be a combination of those things. 138 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:29,240 It's just, you know, maybe a little bit of a fluke. But we've definitely upped our game 139 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:34,440 in our advertising. And so maybe we're getting some hits from that. 140 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,480 Thank you, Jason. Like I said, I was, you know, one of my other conversations, there 141 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,800 was a remark made that, you know, the current environment has made it a little difficult 142 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:51,680 on the college campuses. And I'm glad to hear that we had a good recruiting class. And we 143 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,640 have a great number of candidates. And so we'll just continue to look at it and see 144 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,520 what's happening. Thank you. 145 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:58,520 Yes, sir. 146 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,800 You know, it would be interesting when that is the age of these candidates. I don't, you 147 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,280 know, I'm just wondering, maybe we're not recruiting college. Maybe these are older, 148 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:11,760 like you said, people that are looking for a second career because the first, you know, 149 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,560 is no longer available because of COVID. 150 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Interesting. 151 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,880 That's all I have, Mr. Chair. 152 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:30,100 Any other discussion? All right. Let's move on then to the fire department promotional 153 00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:36,120 exam materials. Mike, is that you? 154 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:43,520 Yes, sir. It is. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey. So you have the list in front of you. Hopefully 155 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:49,960 this is easy as we haven't added anything new. We moved some of the leadership books 156 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:56,000 around. There are two new additions to two of the books, but as far as the names of the 157 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:03,320 content that didn't change. So I believe the first list you have is fire battalion chief. 158 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:10,480 On that list, we added step up and lead the leadership book to that list. The rest of 159 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:19,620 that list are the books that were on it last year. On the fire captain list. So we're kind 160 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:26,200 of adopt this philosophy of rotating these leadership books. So fire captain, it had 161 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:32,360 extreme ownership on it last year. We're putting step up and lead on it this year. And fire 162 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,640 drivers the opposite, but so fire captain, captain removed extreme ownership, which was 163 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:44,200 on there last year added step up and lead and fire officer's handbook of tactics that 164 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:50,800 has a new edition. It's the it was previously the fourth edition, and it's been updated 165 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:59,160 with a fifth edition and a new copyright date. So we updated that book. Fire driver. As I 166 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:04,520 was talking about the leadership books, we removed step up and lead from last year and 167 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:14,560 added extreme ownership. Okay. And the fire driver list also has fire officers handbook 168 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:22,100 of tactics. It's updated to the fifth edition and fire inspector principles and practice. 169 00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:31,400 It has a new edition as well. It's called the first revised enhanced first edition. 170 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,920 I don't know why they didn't make it addition to but anyway, it's got a new copyright date 171 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:47,840 of 2016 from the previous one was 2012. So that edition of that looks been updated. Okay. 172 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,280 Those are the only changes the rest of those books on those lists are the ones you all 173 00:17:52,280 --> 00:18:09,440 saw last year. Any any questions for fire on the on the promotional list? No. My question 174 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:17,440 is this. In comparison to previous years, is this pretty much a similar group of information? 175 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:24,160 Are we emphasizing something over previous years or we're just basically, I don't want 176 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:30,880 to say status quo, but did you feel like the presentation and the emphasis was sufficient? 177 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:37,260 Are we emphasizing anything different this time? This is similar. This list is similar 178 00:18:37,260 --> 00:18:48,480 to to 2020 and 2019. You know, and that's kind of the list changed significantly with 179 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:56,160 the change in our fire chief. But as far as the content, you're asking about the content, 180 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:03,780 you know, we each rank has obviously specific content. Fire driver has, you know, the pumping 181 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:12,560 and aerial apparatus book, you know, but they each, you know, prepare you obviously for higher 182 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:20,560 ranks. So as far as the content, it's pretty consistent. I mean, we may change the books, 183 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:28,000 you know, that the building construction related to the fire service book that's on fire driver 184 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,800 and fire captain's list. That's a different building construction book than we then we've 185 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:40,440 used in the past. But it covers, it covers the same the same content, you know, the same 186 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:49,760 material that we need to know. Thank you, Mike. Yes, sir. All right. Any other questions? 187 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:57,320 I would entertain a motion that we accept the promotional source materials for fire. 188 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:06,600 I'll make that motion. I'll second system. Make sure there any other discussion that we 189 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:15,040 need to have as a commission. Seeing good. I'm like running late today. I'm still hot 190 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:22,440 for me outside. And the so the source material goes hand in hand with the test, right? Because 191 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,200 the stuff the test is still being purchased from another vendor, but they're making sure 192 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,520 to use all this source material or how did that get double checked to make sure that 193 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:36,880 it's those hand in hand? Yes, ma'am. That is correct. The they will use this source material 194 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:44,320 to create the questions that go on our test. Okay, so they create the test from what what 195 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,680 you give them. I didn't know that I thought we're buying tests that were already pre written. 196 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:55,360 They actually create question banks of questions for us. And then we'll select questions from 197 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:09,120 that, that that bank to put on the test. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Any other discussion questions? 198 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:18,840 All in favor of approval of the promotional material for five departments say aye. Aye. 199 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:28,760 Aye. Next police department promotional exam materials source materials who's hanging handling 200 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:39,200 that one on the police side. Michael, is that you? It certainly can be in my in my muted. 201 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,560 Not not now. I was going to defer to Chief Dixon if he wanted to chime in. But if he 202 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:54,000 does not, I will. Michael, you're the director of training. Yes, sir. We made some very similar 203 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,260 to the fire department, which I thought is interesting. We took some some of the material 204 00:21:58,260 --> 00:22:04,720 that has been on the promotional source material list for several years and removed it and 205 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:10,800 put in some that are more reflective of where our organization is going. And they're certainly 206 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,800 more contemporary works. And the fire department mentioned extreme ownership. We actually added 207 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:24,240 that to the sergeant's list for one of our source materials this year. And the lieutenant's 208 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:33,200 list got added a book called Who Moved My Cheese. Yeah, that one's been around for a 209 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:41,280 while. It's a good book, though. We Chief Dixon informed the committee to make recommendations 210 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:48,320 and we that's how the source material list was presented or gathered. That's we shared 211 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,320 ideas and we talked about a number of things. And, you know, I'm pretty very I'm very pleased 212 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,320 with the list that we have or the source material list that we have because we were using some 213 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:02,840 materials that were really dated and they didn't really align with the values of our 214 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:08,640 organization. All they were testing were candidates ability to regurgitate information that we 215 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,200 didn't really use day to day. And so I like what we've come up with. I think it will do 216 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:26,840 well for us. Is it the only question that I would have is are these the latest additions? 217 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:35,760 Well, as far as I know, there's only one edition of Who Moved My Cheese and that's the original 218 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,880 90 and the extreme ownership. Yes, there is a new version of that book that has just recently 219 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:50,760 come out, but it's they call it the updated version of the first edition. Okay, but everything 220 00:23:50,760 --> 00:24:00,160 all the other content is basically the must update must updated materials. Correct. Yes, 221 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:08,720 sir. Okay. I have a question for Michael. Yes, sir. Michael, I'm looking at that first 222 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:15,800 book for lieutenants. It says the president's task force on 21st century policing and it 223 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:25,840 was 2015. So kind of what do we gather? What do we gain from a book like that? That was 224 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,240 the recommendation that came from Dr. Williams. I know you've worked with him on some projects 225 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:38,000 in the past and the president's task force on 21st century policing has the pillars of 226 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,720 modern policing in it. And that is what we're getting from that. That's it's very much in 227 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:50,960 alignment with what Chief Dixon brings in with his leadership and with the accreditation 228 00:24:50,960 --> 00:25:03,720 process. Thank you very much. And Lillian, you're you're muted. I was just going to mention 229 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:10,720 that I tried to go on that page and the page says the page cannot be found. I don't know 230 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:18,120 if that's the wrong link. Or maybe it's just out of date that it just says sorry, the page 231 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:24,720 you're looking for can't be found. Yeah, I just checked it myself. It worked when I created 232 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:36,280 this page, but I will I'll get we can get the link thing certainly. Any other discussion 233 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:43,320 and any other questions? We entertain a motion that we approve the promotional materials 234 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:54,680 for the police department 2020. I'm in commission that we approve this source material for police. 235 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:03,120 Thank you. I'll happily second her motion. Okay. Any other discussion? Not all in favor 236 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:15,680 say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Motion passes. Next order of business neck on the agenda 237 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:27,600 is the LA for police police recruit. Who's going to that one, Jason? Sir, I'll handle 238 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:34,160 it. So as you know, we had to cancel our May exam and reschedule till September because 239 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:43,720 of COVID and Academy cancellation. It's awesome sort of reorganization in our Academy processes. 240 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:49,600 So the idea for that exam is our next Academy will start January 4th, which is what we want 241 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:56,600 to hire for the off of the current list. And the plan is to have an exam immediately after 242 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,200 the Academy starts. So that gives us a maximum amount of time to work that list and hire 243 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,920 for our following Academy. And I think, you know, it's a pretty quick exam as opposed 244 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:13,440 to normally doing them about six months apart, but we're trying to kind of get back on track 245 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:20,120 next January. And the idea is to hold an exam to Saturday after each Academy starts so we 246 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:24,080 can get the list certified and have the maximum amount of time available between Academies 247 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:34,200 to hire off of that list and hopefully process every applicant on the list. Questions? I 248 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:43,680 noticed that we still have as a requirement the 30 years of college credit. I seem to 249 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,640 remember that we had some discussion about possibly removing that. Am I making that up? 250 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:55,480 It could be. I don't recall that. We require 30 college hours or two years active duty 251 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:01,360 military in lieu of that. And that's, you know, a department standard. We actually did 252 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:07,760 reduce the college requirement from 60 hours to 30 hours. We reduced the military requirement 253 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:14,760 to two years because they offer two year infantry contracts. There's, you know, many agencies 254 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:21,960 still do 60, 30 bachelor's degrees. It's kind of all over the place depending on the agency, 255 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:30,160 but ours was actually reduced last year down to 30 from 60. Lillian, we did have that conversation 256 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:37,560 in the use of force about a change and so we're probably, you know. Getting my wires 257 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:51,380 crossed. Your wires never get crossed. All right. Other discussion? Is the link on here, 258 00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:57,720 is this where the link would go that would show how to purchase that setting guide? If 259 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,200 you go to the Denton Police main page and in the middle of that page there's a tab that 260 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:09,640 says join Denton PD. When you click on that tab, the following page is where the registration 261 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,040 link for the test is when it's open. There's not a link there right now because we don't 262 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,380 have a, we don't have the test approved. They'll go back up. And then where the registration 263 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:24,600 link is, is where I'll request the webmaster put in the link to the study guide. Is there 264 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:32,360 not a way that we could include the link here on the sheet that's going out? I don't know 265 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:39,600 how you would do that specifically. I'm not that techy. When I try and, you know, just 266 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:45,300 copy and paste the link to the study guide, it's a big long string of numbers and letters 267 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:54,120 and characters and all of that. So. That would be maybe something for the distributor just 268 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,800 to say, hey, is there an easier link that you guys could like a hyperlink with a different 269 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:06,400 title that could be used? Yeah. I'm just hoping that line. I've got to talk to the, the city, 270 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,720 you know, the city webmaster handles everything. It all goes through city hall. So I'm just 271 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,400 going to request and ask if they can put that link up on that join Denton PD page in a, 272 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:25,400 you know, in a prominent place where people can see that and have access to it. 273 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:36,440 Okay. Any other questions? So when, when would this one go live? I'm sorry. So it's for January 274 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,800 9th. So when would it go live on the webpage? When we get approval from the commission for 275 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:48,920 the exam, I send the information to the webmaster when we get the signed POA and probably my 276 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,480 guess would be Monday. If even if I send it to them today, it's late enough during the 277 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,920 day, then it'll probably be Monday before it goes up. 278 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,440 There's like, there's like three or four months that they have to. Yes. Okay. Cool. 279 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:13,320 Chairman Ramsey, I did have one more question regarding this. It seems like in some of our 280 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,440 discussions that we had offline where you were being interviewed about things that were 281 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,400 going on, you know, back in July, where we kind of had the individual meetings, there 282 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,480 was some discussion about something that we were interested in changing before the next 283 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,640 recruiting class. And I can't remember what it was. Do you remember Lillian? It was something 284 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:42,000 that you had brought up implementing some changes and information that would go forward. 285 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,440 We seem to spend a good bit of time on it this summer. So I don't remember it. I apologize, 286 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,920 but I do remember it was tied to the next recruiting class. And so I thought we'd at 287 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:58,720 least maybe refresh ourselves at this time to make sure we were all in sync regarding 288 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,840 that matter. I mean, I think the bulk of the conversation 289 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,800 that I remember from those meetings was just, you know, that we understood and that the 290 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,640 people that were taking any kind of assessments would understand that and really I thought 291 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:20,160 it was more for the promotional people would understand that we have to abide by, you know, 292 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:25,320 what's written in the study, I mean, or what's written in the book. I don't know, Stephanie, 293 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,080 if you remember something else. I have a lot in my head, but I can't remember. 294 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:36,560 Yeah, I think it was one of those. I think we did. We did mention maybe from the vendor 295 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:44,720 is, is attempting to get maybe more questions to put in the bank so we can have an opportunity 296 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:52,040 to review and pick issues and maybe some good questions. Some questions here with the police 297 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:58,600 department and the fire department prefer. But I think that was it. I can't recall anything 298 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,680 else. I do. I do remember also, it was on the promotional 299 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,120 exams, but I don't know if it's in the recruit that we talked about potential interviews 300 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:14,880 serving as, you know, some kind of, you know, some, some that I would have that an interview 301 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,760 would have some kind of weight, you know, not just these entrance exams, but that may 302 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,320 be a potential interview or a panel might have some kind of weight in the points and 303 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,480 how they're allocated. I think everything else that I've kind of been advocating for 304 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,240 is just going back to the meet and confer whenever that's going to be, you know, reviewed 305 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:40,800 again about potentially adding points for skills that are not easy to come by like bilingual, 306 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,320 bilingualism, but I mean, that won't happen until the next meeting. 307 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:54,520 Yeah, I think our discussion was, was primarily in the promotional and we didn't, we had, 308 00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:02,280 we did approve one POA, I think, but we didn't, there wasn't a lot of discussion. I didn't 309 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:09,680 think about any significant issues. So we did a lot about the POA. I mean, I'm sorry 310 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:15,840 about the promotional exams. Yeah, I mean, I do think, you know, I think 311 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,320 the study guide will be a welcome addition. I think that might level the playing field 312 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,440 for some people. I was doing the numbers here again. I had my notes at home, but I was doing 313 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,520 the numbers again. And, you know, for black males, 67% of them failed the exam, you know, 314 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,200 for Hispanic females, 67% of them failed the exam. The numbers kind of flip flop. Hispanic 315 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:44,640 males, 33% of them failed the exam, black females, 29%, 31% of black, 31% of white males 316 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,720 failed the exam, which is pretty comparable to Hispanic males and black females and 100% 317 00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:54,720 of white females passed. So as I'm looking at that, I know that there's tons of other 318 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:59,960 factors, you know, but if I'm looking at just trying to, you know, level the playing field, 319 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,720 if it's a $20 thing, if it was a $200, you know, testing guide, I would definitely advocate 320 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:10,240 more for what can we do. But if it's a $20, you know, study guide that might help them 321 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,860 to get their foot in the door and score a higher score. I mean, as long as it's made 322 00:35:14,860 --> 00:35:19,360 accessible to everyone, as long as everybody knows how to find that, you know, then I feel 323 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,200 pretty good about that. Because at some point, you know, everybody has to take their own 324 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,840 initiative. But, you know, as just as I look at these numbers, I'm like, man, there's a 325 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:33,800 huge difference between white males and black males, 31 to 67%. You know, white females 326 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:40,520 to Hispanic females, 67% compared to 0% fail. It can't just be ability, natural ability. 327 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,440 There has to be something else that's factoring into that. So that's my only concern with 328 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:51,040 these entry level civil service exams. I think everything else was more so in the promotional. 329 00:35:51,040 --> 00:36:01,520 Thank you, Lillian, for those statistics. I didn't take it to that extent, but I did 330 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,800 notice that there was a disparity there. So thank you for the amplification. 331 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:15,560 Any other discussion? I would entertain a motion that we approve the police recruit 332 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:30,440 DOA. I'll second. I'll second. Any further discussion? Not. All in favor say aye. Aye. 333 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:38,960 Opposed? Motion passes. Next order of business on the agenda is the next Civil Service Commission 334 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:54,640 meeting. Let's see. Crystal? Sir. I do believe we will need to have one because I know we'll 335 00:36:54,640 --> 00:37:04,320 have police promotion testing to post, correct, Lieutenant? Yes, that is correct. Okay. So 336 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:12,600 looking at the calendar, so that'd be in October. I'm sorry, when will that, when are we doing 337 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:20,960 that promotional test? I don't believe there's. Sourced materials got to be posted for 90 338 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:28,840 days, correct? Okay. 91 days from today takes us to December the 18th, which is a Friday. 339 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:44,240 The Monday following is December 21st. Not a big week of Christmas. Yeah, yeah. So really, 340 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:49,800 do we not have anything? I mean, this is generally been a quieter time. It's usually the spring 341 00:37:49,800 --> 00:38:05,780 where we have our fun. So do we want to just schedule something and cancel it or? That's 342 00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:11,840 up to y'all. Now the source material has to be posted for 90 days, but we do have to post 343 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,720 the actual test for 30 days. So if we're going to have a test in December or January, we 344 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:23,760 need to have a meeting in either November or December. So we're recommending the next 345 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:35,320 meeting for December. December. You're proposing a meeting for December. November. November 346 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:46,000 and mid-December. November. Maybe early, earlier November. Yes. It's a little more difficult 347 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:55,280 now that we have to schedule the DTV aspect. Let's look at November. Okay. So that calendar, 348 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:02,440 it looks like you have a few dates to pick from. Do y'all want to look at Fridays, Mondays? 349 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,600 There's one Tuesday. Actually, no, there's not a Tuesday, but there is a Tuesday available, 350 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,960 but it's the week of Thanksgiving. So I don't think that would be a good Tuesday. So we're 351 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:22,800 looking at Thursday, Friday, or Monday. You're muted. Yes, I'm fine. Someone just walked 352 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:33,520 in. Oh, I thought you were talking to us. Why don't we send you the dates and we can 353 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:40,640 look at our calendars and we're talking two months. I mean, we've got time to adjust our 354 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:46,120 calendars, but you probably need to go ahead and set something up though. So send it soon. 355 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:54,200 Will do. I'll send that today. Okay. Okay. Thank you. If there's nothing else for the 356 00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:04,320 good of the order, I would entertain a motion that we adjourn at 415. Is there a motion? 357 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:15,440 A motion that we adjourn. I'll second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you all. Thank 358 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,200 you all. Have a good weekend. Stay safe. Have a good weekend.