WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.840 Good evening, everyone. Thank you for coming back to the Use of Force Ad Hoc Committee 00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:20.640 meeting. Today is Thursday, September 3, 2020. The first item for consideration on the agenda 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:29.280 tonight is the approval of the minutes for August 20, 2020. And if everyone has read 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:43.240 the minutes, we'll need a motion and a second. This is Gary. I move. Gary made a motion to 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:49.600 approve the minutes. Can I get a second? This is Travis and I second. Okay, Travis. And 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:59.680 all in favor with the first and second, raise your hand and hold it up for a second. Willie, 00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:05.280 are you raising your hand? We can't see you. What are we raising our hands for? Because 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:19.040 we're approving the minutes from August 20. Okay, motion carries. Thank you. Next item 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:25.280 is item B. Receive a report, hold a discussion and develop findings, conclusions and recommendations 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:33.120 related to Use of Force and the Denton Police Department. Sarah, that is you. Okay. Yes, 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:39.520 that is me. Good evening, committee members. I sent you an email this afternoon, kind of 00:01:39.520 --> 00:01:43.240 outlining how this meeting would take place tonight and this discussion would take place 00:01:43.240 --> 00:01:49.440 tonight as well as the remaining meetings that we have. So tonight, really what we'd 00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:54.840 like to do is take an opportunity. First, staff wants to thank everyone. We've had the 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:59.880 opportunity to sit down with the committee members one on one through the last week and 00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:04.840 really kind of hear more about what has been your interest, your input. Where do you think 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:10.040 there's gaps or opportunities in regards to use of force in the Denton Police Department? 00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:14.240 And what staff has done is tried to summarize what are some of the common or shared themes 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:19.480 that we saw amongst committee members and to use that as a guide to further facilitate 00:02:19.480 --> 00:02:25.160 some of the committee discussion around recommendations. So I'll be reviewing that document that I 00:02:25.160 --> 00:02:28.320 sent out to the committee this afternoon just to kind of give you some insight into what 00:02:28.320 --> 00:02:33.520 staff heard. And then I'm going to be turning over the rest of the meeting to Patrick Ibarra. 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:39.920 He is a consultant that we have engaged. He's with the Mohandro Group and he will be taking 00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:44.480 the committee through further discussion to kind of vet through those items further, whiteboard 00:02:44.480 --> 00:02:50.360 out, really kind of develop further the recommendations. And Patrick, I'll give you an opportunity 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:56.240 to introduce yourself. He has a lot of experience in terms of facilitating meetings and discussions 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.080 with city councils, city committees, and so forth. 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:03.800 Yes, thanks so much, Sarah. And good evening, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity to just 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:09.400 give you a quick bio on my background. I'm a former city manager. I spent 15 years in 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.200 the business before I started my practice, the Mohandro Group. And Mohandro is Spanish. 00:03:13.200 --> 00:03:16.440 It means getting better all the time. And all my clients are cities, counties, and special 00:03:16.440 --> 00:03:20.320 districts around the country. I work with a lot of community groups, a lot of elected 00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:24.400 officials trying to help them sort of unknot the threads and then thread the needle about 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:27.920 how they're trying to build a more vibrant community, in particular to community groups, 00:03:27.920 --> 00:03:31.560 which is a little bit of a different dynamic. My role tonight, and I'll elaborate on this 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:37.320 a little bit more, is really trying to help the group have an in-depth, candid, constructive 00:03:37.320 --> 00:03:41.480 conversation about what these recommendations are. And I would offer to you that these next 00:03:41.480 --> 00:03:46.080 few meetings are sort of the tough sledding, because you're trying to find the sweet spot 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.480 around the content without wordsmithing it so much that we lose some people. I'll elaborate 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:53.400 a little bit more on my role, but I look forward to working with you. I'm sorry that we're 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.760 not together in person. We'll make sure this works to the best of our ability. It's a little 00:03:56.760 --> 00:04:02.920 bit more stilted, but I'm going to show you a few tricks up my sleeve, just so you can 00:04:02.920 --> 00:04:06.760 feel as though you're going to be actively engaged in what people are saying and then 00:04:06.760 --> 00:04:10.840 what I'm capturing and then what I'm sharing with you. I think you'll find it to be very 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.720 helpful. We're going to try to simulate as best we can if we were all in the same room. 00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:16.160 So I'll turn it back to Sarah. 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:21.320 Thank you, Patrick. So I just want to take a few minutes. I'm going to share on my screen 00:04:21.320 --> 00:04:28.000 that document that I sent out by email this afternoon, and just kind of walk you through 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.760 what city staff heard from those individual interviews with the committee members, some 00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:38.880 of the shared and common themes that we tried to capture. The first is in regards to communications. 00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:43.980 We did hear from a lot of the committee members that they were surprised and not even realizing 00:04:43.980 --> 00:04:48.980 all of the improvements and changes that have taken place over the last two years since 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.680 Chief Dixon has taken leadership and that we should be doing maybe a better job of sharing 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:58.720 all the good that is going on, all of the culture change, all of the best practices 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:04.360 that we're moving towards, all of the initiatives, the accreditation and so forth. And then also 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:08.520 turning that into sharing the progress, so understanding that there still is progress 00:05:08.520 --> 00:05:13.240 to be done and there still is initiatives to be worked on. How do we kind of share that 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:18.600 by measurable progress and markers of progress moving forward? There was also suggestions 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:25.760 around creating a video series or informational campaign. How do we kind of package this information 00:05:25.760 --> 00:05:30.840 and bite size pieces that we can put out to the community to give more perspective to 00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:36.200 how our police department is operating and where they can find more information. The 00:05:36.200 --> 00:05:42.720 second theme we heard around was engagement. A lot of the committee members commented on 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:48.680 what a great experience it was to go through the use of force simulator and really understand 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:53.720 what officers go through in the moment in terms and give some perspective and insight 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:59.760 into that experience where use of force may be necessary. And so kind of at least opening 00:05:59.760 --> 00:06:05.120 that up to community leaders and perhaps maybe even to the general public a few times per 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:11.120 year. We also heard if we could continue to look at strengthening connections with the 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:18.840 community, especially those groups that may be critical or resistant to the police department 00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:24.800 or law enforcement in general. Having more presence on the universities, more connection 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:30.720 to the youth, we heard is a common theme. Since students make up a large population 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:35.720 of the city of Denton and also just having more relationship to the city police department 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:42.920 and not just the university police departments. We heard about if we could strive to increase 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:49.120 our relationships and interactions with certain communities, including the LGBTQ community, 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:56.080 people with disabilities and the Hispanic Latinx community. The third major theme we 00:06:56.080 --> 00:07:01.560 heard around transparency and accountability. So a lot of committee members commented that 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:07.320 we have shared so much data with the committee and a lot of great data and info has been 00:07:07.320 --> 00:07:12.400 compiled and put together. How do we package and distill that information that could be 00:07:12.400 --> 00:07:19.720 shared with the public in a friendly, consumable way so that the public can also get, learn 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:24.000 and have the opportunity to take a look at the things that we've put forward and the 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.160 data that has been made available. Another suggestion that we actually heard from a few 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:34.520 committee members as well is if we could create maybe a biannual report or a regular report 00:07:34.520 --> 00:07:41.360 in regards to use of force data, complaints and the dispositions. So this is the comments 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:47.280 to the really appreciated the matrix put together by Chief Smith and sharing that information. 00:07:47.280 --> 00:07:52.040 Could that be done on a regular basis moving forward? And then could we provide some insight 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:57.260 into how we're reviewing that data, analyzing that data and if there's any narrative that 00:07:57.260 --> 00:08:02.280 could accompany those reports to learn, has that data informed any further actions or 00:08:02.280 --> 00:08:10.280 decisions from the police department? We also heard to continue to develop a culture and 00:08:10.280 --> 00:08:16.160 a standard for officers holding each other accountable. Some comments, you know the surprise 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:21.000 to learn that some of the complaints and majority some of the sometimes of the complaints are 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:30.080 coming actually from officers reporting other officers actions. Another common theme was 00:08:30.080 --> 00:08:35.480 in regards to the mental health unit in response. We heard a lot of support for the new mental 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.160 health division unit that has been formed and really wanting to stay informed and how 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:47.840 that unit will be working and wherever possible if this unit could be leveraged as as much 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:56.060 as possible in response to mental health calls. We also heard a common theme, a concern for 00:08:56.060 --> 00:09:02.460 officer wellness, making sure that we have the resources, enough resources and a focus 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:08.120 upon our officers mental health and wellness as a way to maybe potentially mitigate use 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:13.260 of force situations. So a lot of positive comments are on the peer support team but 00:09:13.260 --> 00:09:18.120 some questions if there's anything else that could be done to support the officers or a 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:23.360 way to develop and monitor and watch for signs that something might be off or wrong with 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:31.160 an officer. Another common theme we heard was in regards to training. Overall most of 00:09:31.160 --> 00:09:35.700 the committee members were impressed by the sheer amount of training that the officers 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:41.080 are required to go through in their initial training to become an officer and then the 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:46.960 ongoing training as well as the department mandated training. What we did here was if 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.440 there could be an increased frequency of the mental health training provided to officers 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:57.920 so if that could be done perhaps on a mental or on an annual basis. Same thing in regards 00:09:57.920 --> 00:10:02.960 to cultural and diversity and sensitivity training if that could be provided more regularly 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:12.840 to officers. We also heard some interest in increasing training and awareness to engaging 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:18.260 people with disabilities and that's both intellectual and physical disabilities. So although we 00:10:18.260 --> 00:10:24.080 are covering autism training should that training be expanded to cover further intellectual 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:33.160 disabilities and not just autism. In regards to policy overall we heard comments that the 00:10:33.160 --> 00:10:38.600 department is doing well with policies. I'm impressed that process has been put in place 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:43.120 over the last two years to update all of the general orders and then continue to update 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:51.600 those general orders monthly utilizing the lexical system and best practices and in cases 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.840 that might be coming out. The committee kind of most committee members commented they feel 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:02.360 a little overwhelmed in knowing how to offer if there should be any changes or specific 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:10.720 changes to policy language. And then lastly there was in regards to oversight a few committee 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:15.640 members commented that there was interest in understanding what the options may be for 00:11:15.640 --> 00:11:21.520 citizen review under state law and understanding that further and just want to remind the 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:27.240 committee that we do have a presentation scheduled for next week on September 10th from our deputy 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:33.500 city attorney Mike Kronig who will provide more information at that time. So at this 00:11:33.500 --> 00:11:37.840 time I'd like to turn it over to Patrick and we're going to he's going to kind of take 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.640 you through each one of these and try to vet out further discussion from the committee. 00:11:43.640 --> 00:11:47.920 We are not going to cover oversight tonight since we still need to provide some of that 00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:56.140 information at the next meeting. So I'm going to bring down my screen for now. 00:11:56.140 --> 00:12:03.760 Thank you Sarah. Thanks Sarah and so how I'm going to try to navigate this is I think it 00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:09.280 helps all of you when you can see each other in this type of setting to have a good conversation. 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:13.800 So I don't want to put my my screen up which is the document that Sarah just reviewed and 00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:17.340 then you all can't see each other. I think it just helps keep some more lively conversation. 00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:21.280 So what I'm going to try to do if you have that document that Sarah sent out earlier 00:12:21.280 --> 00:12:25.220 that she just reviewed handy maybe you had a chance to print it or you can pull it up 00:12:25.220 --> 00:12:28.560 on your screen and maybe minimize it. I'm going to we're trying to we're going to try 00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:32.640 to use that as the as the document tonight to review and I want to be able to have some 00:12:32.640 --> 00:12:36.000 back and forth. So here's what I'm going to ask your indulgence a bit. We're going to 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.520 go through each of these and I'm going to you're going to see my head turn because I 00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:43.640 have a second screen here in my office and I'm going to I'm not a scribe. I'm not trying 00:12:43.640 --> 00:12:47.740 to capture the minutes. I'm going to try to capture the essence of your comments. We're 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:50.960 going to go through a few and then I'm going to say okay let's hold on. I'm going to share 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.560 my screen so you can see some of the comments. This is as similar to what if I were standing 00:12:55.560 --> 00:13:00.500 in front of you at an easel with a flip chart pad where you could all follow along but we 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:04.340 I don't want to do that exclusively because I think that hinders good candid conversation 00:13:04.340 --> 00:13:08.040 between all of you. So I'm going to toggle back and forth. It's not a perfect science 00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:11.700 but having done this with other groups in these last few months I have found that that's 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:16.700 what they find to be the most effective. Now my role is I'm your guide. I'm going to try 00:13:16.700 --> 00:13:21.560 to guide you tonight without steering. I have no authority over all of you so I'm not trying 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:25.920 to impose my will or steer you in a particular direction. I'm a little like your fitness 00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:29.660 trainer so hopefully you have your sneakers on. I'm trying to help each of you and all 00:13:29.660 --> 00:13:33.760 of you get a little bit better shape about crafting these recommendations. Tonight's 00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:39.140 a little bit of making spaghetti throwing things up on the wall to see what sticks capture 00:13:39.140 --> 00:13:42.180 the essence of it. I'm going to give you a little bit of homework as Sarah mentioned 00:13:42.180 --> 00:13:47.540 in the email today that the intent is after we capture all these it's not said and done. 00:13:47.540 --> 00:13:51.020 They're not ready to be laminated or they're not ready to be voted upon but what it's going 00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:56.120 to do is allow you to for us to polish it up get it out to you next week whatever you 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.220 capture tonight and then the homework is going to be for you to really examine these recommendations 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:06.940 because the challenge with community groups is prioritization and and I think you can't 00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:11.200 have all of them I would say for it to be practical. They can't all be a number one 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:15.980 priority that's overwhelmed and I'm not sure it's practical so I think it's going to be 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:20.900 helpful and there's no perfect way to do this but on the 17th we wanted to try to have a 00:14:20.900 --> 00:14:26.220 process you can vote for your top one or two recommendations per category. I'm a big believer 00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:31.780 that less is more so I don't want it's not about points or colors or some sort of sophisticated 00:14:31.780 --> 00:14:36.780 voting process it's kind of democracy in action you get a couple of votes per category 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:40.120 you may vote for your top two and then we're going to see what comes out of that discussion 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:45.740 on the 10th the goal is to capture those votes see how it changes maybe have a little bit 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:50.740 more discussion with the intent of coming back possibly on the 24th for a final meeting 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:54.440 and and finalizing all that we're going to see we've got some wiggle room there on some 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.340 time you've seen that in the presentation at the meeting I believe was last week or 00:14:58.340 --> 00:15:03.720 the week before to say that the meetings are the 3rd to 10th the 17th and the 24th so we've 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:08.100 got a little bit of wiggle room please indulge us tonight this process is not meant to be 00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:13.220 efficient but it's meant to be productive if it was inefficient we'd go around the each 00:15:13.220 --> 00:15:17.580 of you and I'd say okay tell me what you think and I type everything but it is productive 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:22.500 you're going to zigzag a little bit and that's okay right if we move on to the next item 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:26.180 and you say hold on Patrick can we go back to the previous one absolutely I'm going 00:15:26.180 --> 00:15:30.580 to ask just for the sake of effectiveness as people can raise their hand so I can call 00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:36.460 on you just helps have the conversation flow but what I mean by zigzag is we're not trying 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:41.680 to fine-tune everything exactly tonight right I know not everybody has it ready to go like 00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:47.640 Shakespeare and here it's all concise compelling and consolidated it's a little bit messy and 00:15:47.640 --> 00:15:51.620 and I think we should embrace some of the messiness I'm also trying to just final point 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:57.620 I'm going to try to help you stay in your lane you know groups sometimes drift and conversations 00:15:57.620 --> 00:16:02.020 can drift and I'm going to try to pull you back in to say this is about the use of force 00:16:02.020 --> 00:16:06.300 it's not a necessary review of the entire police department so that's where sometimes 00:16:06.300 --> 00:16:10.380 groups get out of there kind of you know they they creep along and they get outside their 00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:14.260 lane I'm going to try to bring you back please accept that in the spirit that I give it one 00:16:14.260 --> 00:16:19.100 of the things I take on face value is that you all have a passion for the community of 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:23.780 Denton and that's wonderful right you're all volunteers you all volunteer to live there 00:16:23.780 --> 00:16:27.500 you volunteer to serve on this committee you may volunteer to invest your business dollars 00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:31.860 to run a business in Denton you may volunteer to serve on the organization or you volunteer 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:36.760 to be in an elected office we love that notion of volunteerism you know occasionally the people's 00:16:36.760 --> 00:16:41.860 passions collide and it's about being respectful and professional we're going to try to instead 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:45.620 of creating a collision we're going to try to create cohesion so you can create some 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:50.580 clarity and I'm not a big fan of compromising because I think then everybody goes away upset 00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:55.540 but I would not use perfection as your gauge if you use perfection as the gauge like you're 00:16:55.540 --> 00:17:01.460 trying to exactly get it to reflect precisely what it is that you want then somebody else 00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:05.600 may want to sort of take that and polish it up a little bit so this is a free-flowing 00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:10.940 conversation and so I hope that you enjoy that we'll pause periodically we may need 00:17:10.940 --> 00:17:15.100 to take a break at some point you know a fluid management break or something just allow people 00:17:15.100 --> 00:17:20.340 to stretch gather themselves I know this is the dinner hour for everyone so okay and that's 00:17:20.340 --> 00:17:24.100 kind of just a little bit of the ground rules and one final ground rule I always try to 00:17:24.100 --> 00:17:30.100 ask in groups is participate don't dominate other people want to share we don't we don't 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:34.380 want to just have monologues we want people to offer and maybe build on hey I really liked 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:39.020 what what he said I really like what she said can we build on that absolutely and I think 00:17:39.020 --> 00:17:43.620 that's what we're trying to strive for tonight so embrace this messiness and so here we go 00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:50.940 so hopefully you have that item that Sarah just reviewed the first category is communications 00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:56.380 if you have that handy and I would ask you that what she shared in the themes of the 00:17:56.380 --> 00:18:03.220 interviews that she got she and other staff members completed what's not in that communication 00:18:03.220 --> 00:18:06.460 recommendation that you think should be in there so because some of this is about what's 00:18:06.460 --> 00:18:10.500 what's not in there I'm not sure just hashing through what's already in there we can do 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:14.020 that if you want to that's fine but if there's something not in there that you think you 00:18:14.020 --> 00:18:17.540 know we really need to flush that out or this create the video series and informational 00:18:17.540 --> 00:18:22.180 campaign what other details right we're not trying to be so instructive as we are trying 00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:26.940 to be suggestive we're not trying to nobody ever says he's a really good micromanager 00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:32.380 so we're not necessarily trying to micromanage everything that about this process but you're 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:36.340 trying to give somewhat of a prescription of specific recommendations there's a little 00:18:36.340 --> 00:18:40.620 bit of nuances there I hope that I hope that makes sense to all of you so there's about 00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:45.660 need to tell the story better sharing progress by measurables and markers of progress and 00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:50.320 then create the video series informational campaign so who wants to share about what 00:18:50.320 --> 00:18:55.060 else about communication or elaborate on some of these just raise your hand and we're off 00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:58.700 to the races and I'm going to type and again I'm going to capture a few then I'll share 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:03.300 my screen because unless you're taking shorthand and some of you don't remember what that is 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:06.340 I'm not sure you're going to be able to keep up so that's why I'm going to capture some 00:19:06.340 --> 00:19:12.700 share it and toggle back and forth without us getting seasick or something so okay so 00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:24.300 what do you think what's not in there that you think should be in there Pam yes Cheryl 00:19:24.300 --> 00:19:32.700 no Pam has raised her hand so I didn't see it no that's fine so thank you Cheryl I feel 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:39.220 like a lot of times the police force obviously there's a lot of focus on things that they 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:46.700 don't do well and I I feel like what we're saying here as far as communication and telling 00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:53.380 a story is when they do things well there's not you don't hear anything about that for 00:19:53.380 --> 00:20:02.140 example in mental health there are lots of times where they do things really well and 00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:08.740 there's no focus on that and at our center when they come out and they're helping someone 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:16.080 that has a mental health issue I was telling Sarah about this they will be there for hours 00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:22.300 and literally do a dance with our consumers and I call it a dance because they don't use 00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:29.900 the taser they don't use any type of use of force and that individual doesn't run into 00:20:29.900 --> 00:20:39.420 the street they're calm their voice is soft and no one knows about that because it's not 00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:49.260 publicized and they've obviously had training to be able to do that so I think that needs 00:20:49.260 --> 00:20:57.100 to be shared and that's not yeah thanks Pam I agree with you I think that's something 00:20:57.100 --> 00:21:00.820 that happens a lot and just a lot about local government it doesn't really make the news 00:21:00.820 --> 00:21:06.380 when things go well it just doesn't it's not as good I don't know remember too many things 00:21:06.380 --> 00:21:11.860 like that going viral it's the opposite and I you know and I think that that is attributed 00:21:11.860 --> 00:21:17.900 to the chief and and what he's teaching his officers and what he's promoting with his 00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:26.060 officer so somehow that message needs to get out okay thank you thanks Pam other ideas 00:21:26.060 --> 00:21:39.600 about communication yes Rhonda and then is it Jamie yeah Rhonda I specifically am interested 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:52.020 in the department using nextdoor.com to communicate positive information about the police force 00:21:52.020 --> 00:21:57.620 and I understand that probably they have access to it if they don't then we need to figure 00:21:57.620 --> 00:22:03.460 out how they can get access to it whether it should be the chief or Sarah or somebody 00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:13.700 need I think needs to be using that particular social media outlet okay thanks Rhonda Jamie 00:22:13.700 --> 00:22:20.340 I agree with all the comments that have been shared and I will say that being part of this 00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:26.020 committee has allowed me to become more impressed with our department just understanding the 00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:32.300 scope of how they are working to improve I think it is important to share what I would 00:22:32.300 --> 00:22:36.680 challenge or I guess the thing that I want to hear from the committee is how do we encourage 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:43.100 our community members to do that so that it is not the police department cheering on themselves 00:22:43.100 --> 00:22:50.260 but rather those of us in the community sharing positive or maybe not so positive experiences 00:22:50.260 --> 00:22:54.820 in a way that is appropriate you know every other type of industry there's some sort of 00:22:54.820 --> 00:23:02.180 review process right where you can give people your stars or whatnot and so is there that 00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:07.380 mechanism for the department and if so have we shared it out or communicated what that 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:14.500 mechanism might be good point yeah some of this is about the role of the community and 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:20.900 how do you help them articulate that message and right as we all know there's no shortage 00:23:20.900 --> 00:23:29.140 of platforms and so much content coming out as 24/7 that it's very it's a very cluttered 00:23:29.140 --> 00:23:33.900 it's just it's it's busy right there's a lot of noise there so how do you separate the 00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:40.040 noise from the story and that's challenging governments all around the country at this 00:23:40.040 --> 00:23:46.860 time to try to what's what that's called is called social marketing it's a different version 00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:52.780 you're really marketing a mission you're marketing the marketing the impact so other thoughts 00:23:52.780 --> 00:23:57.620 Gary yes yeah I think one of the things that I've been impressed with is this profession 00:23:57.620 --> 00:24:02.460 is so very different than the professions we come from whatever communication the city 00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:06.380 and the department pushes out it's really gonna have to be tailored for a very I wouldn't 00:24:06.380 --> 00:24:11.780 say uneducated audience but an audience that is not very familiar at all with the nuances 00:24:11.780 --> 00:24:24.140 of the work you do and kind of the boundaries you have okay yes dr. Williams did you have 00:24:24.140 --> 00:24:32.980 something no no okay yeah there's an old saying Gary that you're not the audience for your 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:40.540 message and I think that takes a lot of crafting it's like a teaching process right good teachers 00:24:40.540 --> 00:24:43.900 and they're not teaching to their colleagues they're teaching to students I don't mean 00:24:43.900 --> 00:24:49.500 that in a hierarchical way here but crafting the message it's easy to get lost in jargon 00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:54.600 the vernacular and and I think government already fights that stigma that it's a lot 00:24:54.600 --> 00:25:00.100 of acronyms or it's a lot of messaging but how how do you articulate that message so people 00:25:00.100 --> 00:25:07.100 hear you and you put it in terms go ahead I think Pam sees it in her mental health world 00:25:07.100 --> 00:25:12.260 we see it with social workers they're very good Lillian sees it in education a lot of 00:25:12.260 --> 00:25:18.900 acronyms a lot of inside industry knowledge expertise communicate outside our domains we 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:24.020 have to remember I wouldn't say dumb it down but right say dumb it down well at some of 00:25:24.020 --> 00:25:28.580 that's calibrating right you're recalibrating the message with diet without diluting the 00:25:28.580 --> 00:25:34.660 intent and that's a that's a skill set right and how you craft that it has to be a conscious 00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:44.460 effort so all good points other thoughts yes Bo and then Lillian yeah one of the things 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:53.540 I'd mentioned is on the it's on the other item suggested that in my mind it well under 00:25:53.540 --> 00:25:59.580 communications strengths of the department especially as it gets to the heart of even 00:25:59.580 --> 00:26:05.740 what led us here to this committee is way that chief Dixon and others have spoken to 00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:13.140 the issue of racism both historically in policing systemic racism currently that continues to 00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:22.380 exist and so in my mind in regards to communicate and telling the story I mean somehow what 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:30.060 you know chief Dixon and what Yancey what officer rain as each through the simulation 00:26:30.060 --> 00:26:35.940 all of them acknowledged and yes racism is real here's our own story our own interactions 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:43.980 with that we know this is a massive issue that is affecting our community for here's 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:49.480 in terms of the communication just getting right to the heart of it I think is a strength 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:56.420 in different public spaces I've been in with chief Dixon and other officers where a lot 00:26:56.420 --> 00:27:03.220 of departments may be less clear and acknowledging and just leaning right into that which again 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:08.460 is a big part over here so I think in terms of communication and capturing that in a way 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:14.740 that communicates to the heart of our neighbors that that's just really a big thing again 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:19.860 was on this up page but in my mind would be great up under the communication piece okay 00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:25.860 well Lillian I think you had your hand up I was going to say kind of along the lines 00:27:25.860 --> 00:27:33.260 of what Gary was saying about the target audience I think I think that the police department 00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:38.740 has started to try to build community partnerships with the organizations and maybe more trusted 00:27:38.740 --> 00:27:45.060 amongst different community groups so whenever you're trying to communicate it might be the 00:27:45.060 --> 00:27:51.660 same information but you're disseminated in different ways you know a good example would 00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:55.260 be Spanish make sure that you know the press releases and the things that you're that you're 00:27:55.260 --> 00:28:03.500 delivering are available in Spanish along with that this might not be super popular 00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:13.860 but I think that the the trust breaks off whenever something does happen in the community 00:28:13.860 --> 00:28:18.820 and the communication that is sent out from the police department and probably rightfully 00:28:18.820 --> 00:28:27.340 so backs the police officer all the time I think from the community aspect we we would 00:28:27.340 --> 00:28:32.620 hope we would wish that the police department the chief would have the back of the community 00:28:32.620 --> 00:28:37.300 not that they're always pitted against each other right but when something does happen 00:28:37.300 --> 00:28:41.340 something bad happens it's it's like well the police department comes out and they're 00:28:41.340 --> 00:28:47.900 always going to cover the back of the officer if that makes any sense and creates distrust 00:28:47.900 --> 00:28:51.420 from the community members because we're like well of course they're gonna you know of course 00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:56.540 they're gonna cover that or of course they're gonna have his back it's not us so I think 00:28:56.540 --> 00:29:01.820 there's something to say that whenever something happens whether it's negative or could seem 00:29:01.820 --> 00:29:08.380 controversial that if there is a way to get in front of that news uh and acknowledge the 00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:13.060 potential controversy acknowledge the you know whatever for the community I think it 00:29:13.060 --> 00:29:18.740 would go a long way um Kerry mentioned as the teacher you know or as an admin I would 00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:23.060 think if a parent comes and complains well the principal is always going to protect the 00:29:23.060 --> 00:29:27.820 teacher right but as a parent I want to know and I want to feel that you have my back my 00:29:27.820 --> 00:29:31.460 best interest and you're not just going to cover whatever your teacher may or may not 00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:36.860 have done does that make any sense yeah I think I'm sorry yeah I think absolutely does 00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:41.460 I think you hit the nail on the head is uh that you know trust is the currency we have 00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:46.340 in any relationship personal professional a community to its members a business to customers 00:29:46.340 --> 00:29:51.260 you're going down the line and trust is fragile by its very nature and when it's been violated 00:29:51.260 --> 00:29:55.340 it's hard to restore that in a personal level and a professional level and a community level 00:29:55.340 --> 00:30:00.260 and so I think you know when trust is not there or it's brittle then when something 00:30:00.260 --> 00:30:06.180 happens it it uh the relationship can fray when the trust is there then people tend to 00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:10.780 keep people more benefit of the doubt when an event happens people are quick to sort 00:30:10.780 --> 00:30:16.540 of draw pick teams and then all of a sudden you're trying to um clean up something that 00:30:16.540 --> 00:30:20.540 may have could have been mitigated if their trusting partnership was there much like you're 00:30:20.540 --> 00:30:24.300 saying about what Chief Dixon and other officers are doing the more they reach out the more 00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:27.900 stories are told the more that they create some benefit of the doubt when something does 00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:32.220 happen people may at least give them some benefit of the doubt and it's not necessarily 00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:36.980 adversarial that's a very delicate dance as someone said earlier about that dance it also 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:41.700 doesn't happen just by the virtue of the passage of time you have to do that continuously 00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:46.700 consciously I know Chief Dixon and the officers know that they're unlike most unlike any other 00:30:46.700 --> 00:30:51.260 city department because they're not only their role um but the impact they have on people's 00:30:51.260 --> 00:30:55.340 lives so let me pause here for a moment and share my screen so you can unless you've been 00:30:55.340 --> 00:31:00.020 taking shorthand so you can share what I've captured and I want and I'm just capturing 00:31:00.020 --> 00:31:04.500 the essence right it's not all perfect polished and packaged in a recommendation format I'm 00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:07.580 not I don't think that's where we're trying to go tonight because I don't think that's 00:31:07.580 --> 00:31:11.100 a good investment of your time we're trying to capture the essence of it so let me share 00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:24.340 my screen everybody see that I put it in red so it would stand out when they do well there's 00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:28.460 not as much attention paid to it for example the mental health calls that Pam talked about 00:31:28.460 --> 00:31:33.640 using nextdoor.com Rhonda talked about communicate positive information how are community members 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:38.220 encouraged to share positive and not so positive stories sort of what's that format is what's 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:42.860 that expectation um as Gary said that the messaging should be tailored to an audience 00:31:42.860 --> 00:31:47.840 that's not as familiar with police you know I would say for many of you that this is your 00:31:47.840 --> 00:31:52.780 first entree into law enforcement some of you even mentioned that tonight you just think 00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:56.180 about where you were three months ago and where you are right now just with your understanding 00:31:56.180 --> 00:32:00.740 of the complexity of police departments um we're all sort of part of the chorus right 00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:04.620 this is a little bit of inside baseball we understand it from a different vantage point 00:32:04.620 --> 00:32:08.720 goes back to we're not the audience for the message uh the way the chief dixon and others 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:14.360 have spoken about systemic racism just getting to the heart of it sharing that with the group 00:32:14.360 --> 00:32:18.660 being candid and constructive conversations with the community uh that the police just 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:23.140 starting to as as lillian was mentioning the police and again i'm not i'm trying to capture 00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:27.360 the essence here uh the police has started to build community partnerships to build that 00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:33.300 trust that disseminating information in different languages for example spanish that can break 00:32:33.300 --> 00:32:37.940 off when an event happens and the response by the police supports the officer's actions 00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:41.980 who has the back of the community which is an awkward position sometimes for the chief 00:32:41.980 --> 00:32:45.740 or elected officials to be in how to get out in front of the news and acknowledge that 00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:49.820 potential controversy so again i know this is not we're not wordsmithing that's what 00:32:49.820 --> 00:32:55.540 we're trying to do i hope i captured that best i could here to reflect the the essence 00:32:55.540 --> 00:33:00.780 of what you were trying to share okay so i'm going to stop sharing hopefully you gathered 00:33:00.780 --> 00:33:19.500 a few of that we're going to go back to all of you now what else yeah uh willy 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:33.700 we can't hear you willy now we can okay all right and the one common thread that i thought 00:33:33.700 --> 00:33:42.620 should be discussed is when there's a problem with communication in in the minority community 00:33:42.620 --> 00:33:47.740 or just low income community i would say and i don't know if i'm categorizing the group 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:55.480 but i i sense it's that group the need for communication usually comes up through controversy 00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:04.700 or conflict or threat or some something and i i suggested that part of the process by 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:13.940 which you help in that area for example i i was mistreated by a police officer and he 00:34:13.940 --> 00:34:19.860 didn't take my side or he or she didn't listen to me and there there is the need for communication 00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:23.820 right there you need to talk to that person and help them understand that yes there's 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:30.900 a process and here's how you do it well the one of the suggestions under the other items 00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:40.260 for career uh consideration of last part of the uh the information that we have i communicated 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:47.820 that this is what's needed when that happens create one contact for the community to call 00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:59.300 to talk with an officer someone with empathy time patience have officers stationed um let's 00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:06.600 see yeah stationed officer in the community community for example in the business or so 00:35:06.600 --> 00:35:13.780 forth somewhere where they can get to someone to say whatever their concerns are that's 00:35:13.780 --> 00:35:18.980 not addressed people are threatened and they don't want to come to the police station but 00:35:18.980 --> 00:35:29.760 they do want to be heard so i think that's one major i'm just capturing that all right 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:41.460 thanks willy other thoughts ideas sharpen this as we i think we've all seen communication 00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:47.300 is a mission critical strategy even in the best of times communicating that message the 00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:54.380 mission the impact the vision there's no shortage of information um the the challenge is how 00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:59.780 do you stand out in a cluttered marketplace because people get information cons we all 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:06.500 do right and sometimes it's not compelling till it is it's not very sexy it doesn't pop 00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:12.500 off the page so it's like look that's a challenge i think uh for a lot of things about government 00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:17.020 which can look stale and a little bit i'm not saying about dent but just as an industry 00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:26.700 standing out in the in the in a busy marketplace so yes uh donna oh okay just so this is like 00:36:26.700 --> 00:36:31.020 an auction so if you raise your hand i'm going to call and i meant to say this earlier i'm 00:36:31.020 --> 00:36:34.860 not going to call on any of you i'm not going to go around the room so don't imagine yourself 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:39.260 back in like ninth grade algebra class avoiding eye contact with me okay rubbing your temples 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:43.080 or something i'm not going to ever call on you but if you raise your hand i will so sorry 00:36:43.080 --> 00:36:48.120 donna oh i'll call on him patrick okay i'm sure you will cheryl thank you you're the 00:36:48.120 --> 00:36:59.100 enforcer other volunteers about the communication and this you know tonight is if you don't 00:36:59.100 --> 00:37:02.700 if you don't bring something up tonight it's not like oh you can never bring it up this 00:37:02.700 --> 00:37:08.900 is a a draft right we're trying to create a straw man a sketch but we're not ready to 00:37:08.900 --> 00:37:12.940 laminate it we got we need some time there's a digestion period and a gestation period 00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:18.420 of these you gotta let you process these gotta let you think these through we also want to 00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:21.660 tighten them up a little bit where there's some overlap we might consolidate those right 00:37:21.660 --> 00:37:26.580 in your words we want to consolidate these and not just be a laundry list or a wish list 00:37:26.580 --> 00:37:32.580 what have you are the thoughts if not i'm going to suggest we move on to engagement 00:37:32.580 --> 00:37:37.860 which is a little bit similar right communication is about outreach it's about in some respects 00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:43.700 marketing both to the group there's mass media and then there's sort of customized messaging 00:37:43.700 --> 00:37:48.500 engagements a little bit more of a proactive outreach a little bit different they're in 00:37:48.500 --> 00:37:53.540 the same ecosystem but a little bit different so i'm going to move on to engagement hopefully 00:37:53.540 --> 00:38:02.300 you have those there i'm just going to read them to you it whoops in case you don't there 00:38:02.300 --> 00:38:09.620 were there were three four open the the use of force stimulator up to other community 00:38:09.620 --> 00:38:14.980 leaders and the general public create opportunities to reach and strengthen connections with the 00:38:14.980 --> 00:38:18.540 community especially those groups that may have less connection to the police department 00:38:18.540 --> 00:38:23.340 more presence on universities and at university events more connection to youth and the fourth 00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:28.660 one increased relationships interactions with the lgbtq community people with disabilities 00:38:28.660 --> 00:38:38.420 and the hispanic latinx community so don is that your hand raised now okay thank you all 00:38:38.420 --> 00:38:45.660 right go ahead um yes i on behalf of the university because that was one of my suggestions it's 00:38:45.660 --> 00:38:51.620 as being a student i noticed that and a lot of people notice that a lot of students eat 00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:56.980 up whatever they see on social media and you know with these times of uncertainty and a 00:38:56.980 --> 00:39:01.220 lot of police brutality going on around the country they want to be sure that they're 00:39:01.220 --> 00:39:08.100 safe at their own home and i feel like if we had better communication on campus and 00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:13.900 better engagement with um police officers on campus it would make students feel a lot 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:19.660 more comfortable and not just something that stage but something that is um a continuous 00:39:19.660 --> 00:39:24.140 thing something that is like okay we're going to talk to you now or we're going to talk 00:39:24.140 --> 00:39:29.460 to you like six months from now like being there and not always in uniform that was another 00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:34.900 thing that i find um pretty imperative for students like me we don't want to always have 00:39:34.900 --> 00:39:40.540 to approach an officer um and all of their their gear i mean it's great you know i understand 00:39:40.540 --> 00:39:45.580 you know that's a part of uniformity but we want to be able to talk casually you know 00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:50.660 just like our upper admin they aren't always running around you know and um they're professional 00:39:50.660 --> 00:39:54.420 retired we can actually sit and talk to them and one of the things that i suggested was 00:39:54.420 --> 00:40:06.420 a tabling session um just something to get better engagement on campus because um 00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:09.540 i think we lost you she froze 00:40:09.540 --> 00:40:17.460 holler when you come back donna you had some good comments there 00:40:18.180 --> 00:40:24.660 thank you john baines good to see you uh gary and then jamie thank you madame chair yeah i 00:40:24.660 --> 00:40:29.300 hear what donna's saying and i think deep dixon's crew does that really really well in the school 00:40:29.300 --> 00:40:34.500 district uh i know what the elementary campus is so i think it is very portable to other parts 00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:41.460 of the community okay thanks gary uh jamie did i thought your hand was uh and then sheryl yeah i 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:47.220 just wanted to sort of um on this point revisit the point that lillian was making that particularly 00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:55.220 in those communities where there may be a a trust differential and some improvement to be made 00:40:55.220 --> 00:41:01.460 that going into those communities and seeking out partnerships that will allow for better engagement 00:41:01.460 --> 00:41:10.260 is often like stronger than just setting up some panel and hoping that those people come to you 00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:16.180 right so it's finding those linkages and then being able to utilize those communities and those 00:41:16.180 --> 00:41:23.780 partners um to to have it be successful okay a little bit more organic than formal right 00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:30.020 it's sometimes it's a combination of both so sheryl yeah i just want to just make this quick 00:41:30.020 --> 00:41:37.380 point um you do realize that each of our universities has their own police department 00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:44.660 and their police force so it wouldn't be typical to see a lot of engagement for denton police 00:41:44.660 --> 00:41:55.140 to be on twu's campus but you can um always talk to chief garrison at twu or chief rentals at unt 00:41:55.140 --> 00:42:02.580 and they would be more than happy to engage and and talk to those concerns there it wouldn't be 00:42:02.580 --> 00:42:09.940 uh it wouldn't be typical for denton pd to be on those campuses and to have those platforms 00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:20.900 okay yes donna i'm sorry i didn't i my internet completely dropped so i don't know what have we 00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:26.100 heard most of it we where we wrapped up what when you froze there you were saying you want to be 00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:30.580 able to approach and talk with officers when they're not in uniform right to make it more 00:42:30.580 --> 00:42:35.780 approachable and then then you froze from there yes no and what i was saying after that was that 00:42:36.580 --> 00:42:41.940 students um definitely want to be comfortable everywhere they go and i don't know if what 00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:48.820 sheryl just said was related to what i said was that what you were speaking about um yes because 00:42:48.820 --> 00:42:56.340 it's it the question the way you said it it sounded like you wanted to have that engagement 00:42:56.340 --> 00:43:02.100 on campus and each campus has their own police department and yes and i'm completely and i'm 00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:09.380 completely aware of that but in our in our meeting um even with residential the resident the resident 00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:15.540 housing association on campus we have spoken to them and we constantly speak to our campus police 00:43:15.540 --> 00:43:21.620 and they suggest that we have better engagement with our um police department so that's not just 00:43:21.620 --> 00:43:27.620 coming from me it's coming from several students so i find it imperative that um we have engagement 00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:33.220 all around because when we step off the campus we're not just talking um to our campus police 00:43:33.220 --> 00:43:39.700 talking we're talking about um the denton police department as well so it's important all around 00:43:39.700 --> 00:43:45.540 not just when we're on campus no but the way that um i interpreted it that i thought you were talking 00:43:45.540 --> 00:43:52.100 about when you were on campus no on and off campus it's very important okay thank you of course uh 00:43:52.100 --> 00:43:58.660 camion did i pronounce that correctly yeah i just wanted to mention something around um 00:43:58.660 --> 00:44:07.140 communication one of the things that i did share is that it's very confusing the fact that there's 00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:12.980 three different police departments in one town um because there's the universities have their 00:44:12.980 --> 00:44:19.300 own system like people don't readily understand that general people don't readily understand the 00:44:19.300 --> 00:44:24.020 difference between someone that's in a sheriff's outfit and a police department outfit like they 00:44:24.020 --> 00:44:30.900 just see everyone as law enforcement so there needs to be some clear information about all of 00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:36.340 that because also that inhibits people from being able to express like if they have a grievance they 00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:41.620 don't actually know the right place to go and having to go one place and get told it's the wrong 00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:48.100 place creates a huge barrier to where they might not say anything so i just think that a part of 00:44:48.100 --> 00:44:53.380 communication needs to be clarifying some of that because i think a lot of people learn that there's 00:44:53.380 --> 00:44:58.420 a lot of different systems at play in law enforcement that we didn't i didn't realize 00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:06.580 that in one small town that this many bodies could be at play okay all right thanks camion um yancey 00:45:06.580 --> 00:45:17.140 is your hand up or yes i just really want to reach out and see what type of other engagements 00:45:17.140 --> 00:45:23.700 that maybe i guess the not the police department but the community because i mean the police 00:45:23.700 --> 00:45:30.020 department do have engagement where we're not in uniform uh like the uh the con with kids and the 00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:35.540 coffee with a cop and all that but yet it seems like that the community really don't come out 00:45:35.540 --> 00:45:41.620 for the most part to support that so what's a better way that we can communicate with the 00:45:41.620 --> 00:45:46.180 community to get the community involved because the police department is actually having these 00:45:46.180 --> 00:45:51.700 type of engagement but it seems like to me the same people show up the ones they want to actually 00:45:51.700 --> 00:45:59.300 be involved so i guess what i'm trying to say is what's the best way for the community to 00:45:59.300 --> 00:46:03.860 make suggestions as opposed to saying the police department need to do this police department need 00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:10.100 to do that offer suggestions on some things that the police department can do where you actually 00:46:10.100 --> 00:46:17.220 come out and support the police department okay that's good yeah i mean you can have all the 00:46:17.220 --> 00:46:22.580 programs from a to z it's it's how do you enlist people in that sometimes there's a barrier there 00:46:22.580 --> 00:46:28.180 for a variety of reasons um it's trying to penetrate that barrier and um that's a that's 00:46:28.180 --> 00:46:33.140 a reciprocal relationship which can be again uh delicate even in the best of times donna 00:46:34.100 --> 00:46:40.420 thanks yancy yes answer were you asking that as a general question to everyone 00:46:40.420 --> 00:46:46.100 be a general question but i just wanted that to be a topic that we discuss as opposed to just saying 00:46:46.100 --> 00:46:52.420 this is what police departments needs to do not only just denton but across the nation or you know 00:46:52.420 --> 00:46:59.460 the the colleges or whatever uh we do a lot of stuff at the police department but so that's just 00:46:59.460 --> 00:47:05.300 something that we need to discuss as a whole i feel like personally i feel like it's it goes 00:47:05.300 --> 00:47:10.740 to monitoring your engagement levels because a lot of people engage differently like a lot of 00:47:10.740 --> 00:47:16.100 people take again to social media as opposed to media and as opposed to like maybe mailers which 00:47:16.100 --> 00:47:21.140 is what i was able to talk to sarah about um it's really just about monitoring that because not 00:47:21.140 --> 00:47:25.940 everybody is going to engage in the same way a lot of people nowadays do engage on social media and 00:47:25.940 --> 00:47:30.980 that's how they're drawn to whatever you may be hosting so i just feel like that would be a 00:47:30.980 --> 00:47:37.620 suggestion you might want to take into consideration okay uh john you had your hand up and then katina 00:47:37.620 --> 00:47:47.460 yes i wanted to respond to yancy's uh question or concern uh as a community volunteer since 1986 00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:54.820 one of the things i've noticed is that um the people that need to be at these different meetings 00:47:54.820 --> 00:48:00.740 are usually the ones that don't show up and it's very it's very disconcerting uh we've had 00:48:00.740 --> 00:48:08.420 informational sessions on a number of topics and a number of venues and the people that you want to 00:48:08.420 --> 00:48:14.580 be there it seems like they're almost never there it's very difficult and so my encouragement to 00:48:14.580 --> 00:48:20.740 you yancy is don't give up we just have to continue looking for formula 409 if you're not 00:48:20.740 --> 00:48:26.980 familiar with that there is a product called formula 409 which means there were 408 which 00:48:26.980 --> 00:48:32.580 didn't work and then eventually got the 409 which did work so we just have to keep looking for the 00:48:32.580 --> 00:48:38.580 one that works so please stay encouraged yancy don't give up i'm not discouraged i'm just trying 00:48:38.580 --> 00:48:46.340 to see and back to your point what what can the communities offer suggestions as opposed to saying 00:48:46.340 --> 00:48:50.420 that we're not doing this the community should offer suggestions that way they will show up we 00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:56.660 will start doing things that will get them to show up uh katina and then camion and then lillian 00:48:56.660 --> 00:49:03.380 thanks yancy and john i think that the bridge between communication and engagement is language 00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:10.900 and i think that that's been one of the tremendous issues is language because language is what you 00:49:10.900 --> 00:49:19.140 know just everyday language what we're communicating is what will build um community to trust police 00:49:19.140 --> 00:49:24.340 officers to be able to come out because you you you have to realize that there is polarizing 00:49:24.340 --> 00:49:37.380 language in this country that often um speaks to rendering um a devaluing of black and brown lives 00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:46.660 and um stripping of dignity of black and brown bodies and um even in the times where lives have 00:49:46.660 --> 00:49:52.980 to be taken the ways in which that is done by calling someone a nigger before you shoot them 00:49:52.980 --> 00:50:00.820 you know and not anybody on this panel but you know we talk about how um the 00:50:00.820 --> 00:50:07.620 the stuff goes viral let me just raise my hand and say as a black woman i i don't want the 00:50:07.620 --> 00:50:15.220 affliction of black bodies to go viral that's not sexy to the black community either and um i don't 00:50:15.220 --> 00:50:21.940 like the idea that my children could see you know the infliction of a black body i and in the in the 00:50:21.940 --> 00:50:28.260 lack of dignity that black people are treated um there is an issue like we wouldn't be here if there 00:50:28.260 --> 00:50:36.900 wasn't an issue and at the same time both and i do know that officers can be awesome and um i i know 00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:44.740 many awesome officers but i think that language so that you know when when a life is taken just 00:50:44.740 --> 00:50:50.580 expressing grief there's nothing that's stopping a police officer for from taking a moment to 00:50:50.580 --> 00:50:58.260 express the the the grief like the the you know the sadness of a life being taken even if it had 00:50:58.260 --> 00:51:04.020 to be taken in press conferences a lot of times police officers and i'm not necessarily speaking 00:51:04.020 --> 00:51:11.460 about denton city of denton police but um there are polarizing views that are expressed and we 00:51:11.460 --> 00:51:17.460 still have a dead person regardless of who that person is that person means something to their 00:51:17.460 --> 00:51:25.380 community and that is the language that comes across to the community because if i see language 00:51:26.020 --> 00:51:34.340 that's not valuing the sanctity of my black life i'm not going to want to go anywhere where there 00:51:34.340 --> 00:51:41.540 are officers in that you know within that agency because they stood in a press conference and 00:51:41.540 --> 00:51:49.860 expressed via their language posture and language is verbal it's posture it's presence um it's who 00:51:49.860 --> 00:51:56.580 you surround yourselves with it it's it's when officers get on social media and and high five 00:51:56.580 --> 00:52:02.580 uh white supremacy because you know the white supremacists are the ones that are like you know 00:52:02.580 --> 00:52:09.300 back the blue exploiting police officers and so i think that language is the key to really bridge 00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:14.340 the gap because people people know when people are doing stuff for optics and when they're 00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:20.020 being genuine and unfortunately the good police officers and the good departments are going to 00:52:20.020 --> 00:52:26.500 have to lean in um in ways that bridge the gap for all of the damage that's been done 00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:36.580 um and language um needs to be a focus so that um people know that man they're sad that someone's 00:52:36.580 --> 00:52:42.500 life was taken they're not just spouting off data like they they you know i've seen chief dixon 00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:48.420 when the little boy that was you know or the child that was locked in a car and i we were at an event 00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:54.100 together and he was talking about this child and he like visibly wept and i'm not saying that you 00:52:54.100 --> 00:53:01.380 know i want to see you squeeze out some tears but that moved me um into and put me in a pot like 00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:07.700 put my heart at ease like this is a person that cares about you like the fact that he wept in 00:53:07.700 --> 00:53:13.300 knowing that police officers see that kind of thing all the time that means that he's human and 00:53:13.300 --> 00:53:18.820 that he values the sanctity of life in a way that a lot of people don't in a way that a lot of 00:53:18.820 --> 00:53:25.140 medical you know doctors don't you know police officers don't people that become desensitized 00:53:25.140 --> 00:53:32.980 so language is is is everything and that's that's where you will build communication and that's 00:53:32.980 --> 00:53:38.900 where you will get the engagement that you want because people have to feel safe thank you thanks 00:53:38.900 --> 00:53:49.700 katina and then camion and then lillian yeah i think um i wanted to share something in response 00:53:49.700 --> 00:53:57.620 to gancy also and just as a community organizer like community organizing one-on-one is you go 00:53:57.620 --> 00:54:06.260 to where the people are you don't bring them to you um and that that is the piece that is missing 00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:13.460 and on top of that building off what katina said there's already a lot of distrust not even 00:54:13.460 --> 00:54:21.380 necessarily based on their experience with didn't pd but their entire lives of learning about what 00:54:21.380 --> 00:54:30.020 policing is so that is also a hurdle that um the police department is up against and that's also 00:54:30.020 --> 00:54:36.580 something that the community members have to work through as well so i'm all that to say it's not 00:54:36.580 --> 00:54:43.700 going to be some quick easy fix like this is a long time of engaging folks to break down these 00:54:43.700 --> 00:54:51.940 barriers if this is the goal of the police department um yeah that's all i basically wanted 00:54:51.940 --> 00:55:00.340 to share uh there's not a quick fix to that okay thanks camion lillian yeah i was gonna 00:55:00.340 --> 00:55:05.380 they both kind of just took the words out of my mouth and i know like with the coffee with the 00:55:05.380 --> 00:55:11.300 cup i know a couple of times i shared the flyers and i you know uh but i know like for example 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:16.660 with lulac we meet every third saturday right and so it would carry a lot more weight if an officer 00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:20.980 a couple of officers came by our meeting sat through the meeting although it might be boring 00:55:20.980 --> 00:55:26.100 and then shook some hands and said hey can i see you you know the invite from the officer is going 00:55:26.100 --> 00:55:31.620 to where the community is at exactly like camion said that's going to carry a lot more weight than 00:55:31.620 --> 00:55:37.860 let me host this and wait for people to come um the other just ideas um you know attend pta 00:55:37.860 --> 00:55:42.260 meetings like obviously not in uniform maybe with a t-shirt and invite some of the parents that are 00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:46.740 there um maybe some of the fasten nights at the high schools where a lot of the parents go and 00:55:46.740 --> 00:55:52.180 they're eager to get information it's just where the community's at um you and t has an awesome 00:55:52.180 --> 00:55:58.020 program upward bound that has you know 50 plus kids you know from low-income families that are 00:55:58.020 --> 00:56:02.420 going to be the first to go to college like they have parent uh events and they're always like well 00:56:02.420 --> 00:56:07.460 populated so it's exactly it's finding the places like camion said where the community's at 00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:12.340 you show up and you're friendly and you hang out and you don't have an agenda other than to 00:56:12.340 --> 00:56:17.780 get to know them and at the end hey we'd love to see you and you invite them um to wherever 00:56:17.780 --> 00:56:22.180 you know whatever you're trying to do the the project or me style or the coffee with the cop 00:56:22.180 --> 00:56:28.900 or anything like that um the other thing i was just going to say um i think katina just it means 00:56:28.900 --> 00:56:33.780 she's put it super eloquently and it goes back to what i said at the beginning it's all about trust 00:56:34.340 --> 00:56:41.140 if if i see that the department like she said acknowledges the loss of life or acknowledges 00:56:41.140 --> 00:56:46.340 the tragedy or you know what i mean and you still have to do the work you still have to uphold the 00:56:46.340 --> 00:56:52.100 law you still you know what i mean but you're you're you're acknowledging that and you're human 00:56:52.100 --> 00:56:58.740 and i feel like i said that the police have my back or at least the department has my back 00:56:58.740 --> 00:57:03.780 and not just you know the officers um because i will tell you and i don't know that we can 00:57:04.580 --> 00:57:10.500 emphasize this as much anytime that something happens with any police department i don't 00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:17.460 i would say most of the time something happens an officer makes a mistake i guarantee you the 00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:21.700 department is from the perception not that it's reality but the perception of the community is 00:57:21.700 --> 00:57:27.620 that everyone's going to try to to protect them and hide that so that the department as a whole 00:57:27.620 --> 00:57:33.540 doesn't lose face and i think that that's very uh that's that's hard on the community because 00:57:33.540 --> 00:57:38.420 then you feel like you you know no matter if it was wrong or right you know the community is not 00:57:38.420 --> 00:57:44.580 going to get the the we're not going to get the the the word is respaldo in spanish but like 00:57:44.580 --> 00:57:50.020 basically backing that it means because it's a community member an outsider going against the 00:57:50.020 --> 00:57:56.020 police department um i don't know how else to explain that but it's it's it's it's very much 00:57:56.020 --> 00:58:02.340 to what katina said it's it's the trust it's the acknowledgement uh it's the being transparent uh 00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:08.420 and it's not just in uh press releases or the actions it's in the language like she said it's 00:58:08.420 --> 00:58:13.060 in the posture it's in it's in everything it's in the way you walk it's in the way that police 00:58:13.060 --> 00:58:19.140 officers are are taught to carry themselves um i will tell you i have lots of officers that are 00:58:19.140 --> 00:58:26.420 friends but there's like a like an arrogance almost that creates a disconnect between community 00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:32.020 members and those officers and i mean that with all the respect i'm not trying to be disrespectful 00:58:32.020 --> 00:58:40.180 at all i'm just trying to acknowledge that the disconnect that exists okay i'm not sure i can 00:58:40.180 --> 00:58:45.140 see everybody here we've got 27 people and i'm seeing 25 so if you raise your hand there are 00:58:45.140 --> 00:58:50.420 limits here with zoom about how small i can how many people i can see so if you've got your hand 00:58:50.420 --> 00:58:58.580 raised and i can't see you please let me know i can see yours ronda so go ahead um i don't know 00:58:58.580 --> 00:59:05.380 where to start this is really personal those of you who are talking about the officers and the 00:59:05.380 --> 00:59:16.020 presentation of self um in the uniform i'm i'm fascinated by this because i've never had a 00:59:16.020 --> 00:59:24.180 negative interaction with the police officer in my entire life never not once not here not anywhere 00:59:24.180 --> 00:59:30.180 and i lived in new york city i lived in new york city uh during the 60s when there were riots you 00:59:30.180 --> 00:59:41.380 know um so i'm not quite sure where i'm going with it but to me it's like we really have some 00:59:41.380 --> 00:59:46.580 different perceptions because i like to see officers in their uniforms i want to know who they are 00:59:46.580 --> 00:59:53.620 first you know who in this group is an officer it goes all the way from i want to identify them 00:59:53.620 --> 00:59:58.180 because if there's trouble i want to know who to go to and if there's not trouble i don't have to 00:59:58.180 --> 01:00:04.980 worry about it because they're here they're going to take care of the trouble it goes all the way 01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:11.300 from that to i always want to say how much does that belt you have to wear weigh do you have a 01:00:11.300 --> 01:00:17.860 backache from that damn belt it must weigh 15 pounds you know it's like man i'm i'm just floored 01:00:17.860 --> 01:00:24.660 so it's got to be about our different experiences in our past you know really 01:00:24.660 --> 01:00:32.740 thanks ronda uh uh jamie and then lillian and then cammy and i think you had your hand up jamie 01:00:32.740 --> 01:00:39.220 i was just gonna say i think it is about difference of experience and i think that 01:00:39.220 --> 01:00:47.460 when it comes to communication and engagement what i'm hearing is that there needs to be a balance 01:00:48.260 --> 01:00:54.660 of both because you're saying for you to be able to engage and communicate well it helps you to 01:00:54.660 --> 01:01:02.020 see a uniform i can tell you not from my personal experience but i work at the cumberland presbyterian 01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:10.020 children's home when our kids see a cop car roll up on our campus there's a lot of fear 01:01:10.020 --> 01:01:15.540 that comes automatically with that interaction and that is true of a lot of people in our community 01:01:16.340 --> 01:01:22.580 and so when we're finding ways to engage i think to come back to the points that have been made 01:01:22.580 --> 01:01:28.340 about meeting people where they are having our officers and having the intentionality of meeting 01:01:28.340 --> 01:01:34.740 people where they are is really critical because it allows for your experience to remain true and 01:01:34.740 --> 01:01:44.420 it recognizes that that's not true for many i would argue even most of our community thanks 01:01:44.420 --> 01:01:51.140 jamie uh lillian and then camion yeah i was gonna i was gonna say the same thing 01:01:51.140 --> 01:01:55.940 miss ronda i do not mean any disrespect on this what i'm about to say and i i know i'm probably 01:01:55.940 --> 01:02:01.940 gonna get backlash and that's okay but when you were saying that all i could think of that's 01:02:01.940 --> 01:02:08.900 privilege and that is because from the moment that i arrived in this country when i was four years old 01:02:08.900 --> 01:02:15.860 i was taught to almost hold my breath when i came across a cop to be invisible when i came across a 01:02:15.860 --> 01:02:24.020 cop and so it is it is it's everything that you guys just said and i think that that the police 01:02:24.020 --> 01:02:29.300 department i'm glad that this came up because just like we're saying in in news conferences and 01:02:29.300 --> 01:02:34.420 press releases and how things need to be in different languages and maybe you know 01:02:34.420 --> 01:02:38.580 that's the same thing you want to build trust with the black and brown community then don't show up 01:02:38.580 --> 01:02:43.460 with your gun you know what i mean if you want to build more trust with the white community maybe 01:02:43.460 --> 01:02:50.500 show up for regalia i don't know you know what i mean um but but i think that this has this is big 01:02:50.500 --> 01:03:01.700 you know thanks lillian and then katina has your hand up i was gonna say similarly it is literally 01:03:01.700 --> 01:03:10.580 about privilege i think from an early age i've been socialized to be afraid of what could happen 01:03:10.580 --> 01:03:18.740 if i came to in too close contact with police which even makes being a part of these meetings 01:03:18.740 --> 01:03:27.380 with so many police officers very hard for me um but it is definitely about privilege i have friends 01:03:27.380 --> 01:03:33.060 who have said that they have waived a police officer down to give them a ride home and i could 01:03:33.060 --> 01:03:42.740 never even imagine doing that i can't imagine ever doing that if something happens i likely will call 01:03:42.740 --> 01:03:50.820 the police last resort um just to like put it in perspective black women are the least likely to 01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:57.780 engage law enforcement when they're experiencing domestic violence that is how not in contact with 01:03:57.780 --> 01:04:02.980 police black women want to be and that is how much we want to protect other black folks who 01:04:02.980 --> 01:04:14.100 might come in contact with police okay katina and then willy yeah i'm i guess i'm you know struggling 01:04:14.100 --> 01:04:24.340 with your comment i do appreciate it miss ronda but um i would say that myself as a black woman 01:04:24.340 --> 01:04:30.980 i that there are privileges that i have based on education and based on maybe the area i live in or 01:04:30.980 --> 01:04:42.100 whatever um but my concern is the least of these um as a christian woman and there is a public outcry 01:04:42.100 --> 01:04:50.260 and it is across the country and there are you know decades and even centuries of brutalization 01:04:50.260 --> 01:04:58.580 and trauma that we have to work through and it's not subjective it's not about what i you know that 01:04:58.580 --> 01:05:05.300 i may feel comfortable with an officer because i have i've had positive and negative experiences 01:05:05.300 --> 01:05:12.260 i've had some very traumatic experiences and know of very traumatic experiences that i know are 01:05:12.260 --> 01:05:20.580 actually true um with police officers but in i've had wonderful experiences but it's it's not 01:05:20.580 --> 01:05:28.020 necessarily based on my personal experience as much as it's based on what um um what my people 01:05:28.020 --> 01:05:33.620 group is uh is experiencing and i have a burden that i wouldn't turn my back on that just because 01:05:33.620 --> 01:05:39.860 i'm afforded some privileges um and you know i would hope that even if i were a white woman 01:05:39.860 --> 01:05:47.620 that i would want to see justice for anybody that's a human being um because you know we all are made 01:05:47.620 --> 01:05:54.420 in the likeness and image of of the lord and as for me personally as a christian woman my conviction 01:05:54.420 --> 01:06:00.580 you know i i'm i'm i'm i'm a big advocate for like sexual abuse and domestic violence 01:06:01.140 --> 01:06:09.300 and i will advocate for white women because they're being abused and there are huge statistics 01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:15.060 like ain't nobody gonna abuse me like i will i would like my husband like i will take you out 01:06:15.060 --> 01:06:23.060 like i'm you know but i know i know many women like that's their reality and i have physically 01:06:23.060 --> 01:06:31.700 seen with my own eyes women be physically abused and my thing is it it map it it i'm not gonna just 01:06:31.700 --> 01:06:37.620 even though black women have by and large like the sexual abuse um statistics for black women 01:06:37.620 --> 01:06:42.740 and the domestic violence and the fact that 75 000 black women and girls are missing in this country 01:06:42.740 --> 01:06:48.820 right now there are white women in our community who have opened their clothes up and showed me 01:06:48.820 --> 01:06:56.100 their bruises and that's enough that's enough for me nobody's gonna ever punch me but seeing 01:06:56.100 --> 01:07:03.140 those experiences that's enough thanks katina i think willy you had your hand up and then after 01:07:03.140 --> 01:07:10.740 willy patrick we're gonna take a break okay okay yes sure it'll be a good time for a break uh 01:07:10.740 --> 01:07:20.020 patrick i we're off track we're we're way off track uh it's not that it's not a good discussion 01:07:20.020 --> 01:07:28.820 and it's something that probably we are discussed at some place but i'm confused not confused i'm 01:07:28.820 --> 01:07:37.540 struggling i'm thinking well what are we here for tonight what are we right now at this meeting 01:07:37.540 --> 01:07:45.540 here for are we trying to hone this thing down to a recommendation or should we just throw out 01:07:45.540 --> 01:07:51.780 the possibility of doing having a recommendation and just talk about stuff 01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:58.740 well i got some stuff i want to talk about i've been through a lot of stuff and i want to talk 01:07:58.740 --> 01:08:04.660 about some of it and i want someone to help me get through it please help me get through my stuff 01:08:05.860 --> 01:08:14.020 not the time we're not here for that i don't think i don't know so patrick i'm asking you 01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:21.780 after the break or whenever you help me get on track or i'm through i'm out of zoom call me gone 01:08:21.780 --> 01:08:28.100 i don't know what we're doing here so that's all i would say okay thanks willy so we're going to 01:08:28.100 --> 01:08:34.900 take how long of a break sheryl we're going to take a 10 minute break and um then we're going 01:08:34.900 --> 01:08:41.060 to come back and then we will be done by 8 15 however far we get okay all right thanks sheryl 01:08:41.060 --> 01:08:50.980 okay we are back uh to the use of force ad hoc committee um welcome back thank you for coming 01:08:50.980 --> 01:08:58.260 back we are um very much off topic um and i know everybody wanted to get in what they were feeling 01:08:58.260 --> 01:09:04.500 in their expressions but um we need to move forward with the additional items that we have 01:09:04.500 --> 01:09:10.500 for a presentation tonight because we will be finishing at 8 15 and then we will be back next 01:09:10.500 --> 01:09:19.380 week so i'm going to turn it back over to patrick but um from this point on if you want to have a 01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:24.900 comment or speak raise your hand and i will acknowledge you so you everybody can have a time 01:09:24.900 --> 01:09:31.140 okay thanks sheryl so we're going to move on to transparency and accountability hopefully you have 01:09:31.140 --> 01:09:34.660 that document there in front of you that you can read through those recommendations package and 01:09:34.660 --> 01:09:39.540 share the data and info that has been provided to the committee create a biannual report with use of 01:09:39.540 --> 01:09:44.740 force data complaints and dispositions i'm just giving you the highlights here continue to develop 01:09:44.740 --> 01:09:50.660 a culture and standard for officers to hold each other accountable so either to build on those 01:09:51.380 --> 01:10:01.620 or if something's not there in regards to transparency and accountability if not i'm 01:10:01.620 --> 01:10:07.060 going to move on i'm not trying to make a sprint but i'm and we can always come back but trying to 01:10:07.060 --> 01:10:13.860 keep it moving for the sake of the keeping you engaged yes gary oh i'm sorry i would just add 01:10:13.860 --> 01:10:23.620 determine data dashboards somewhere to those bullets okay thanks gary 01:10:23.620 --> 01:10:36.900 okay patrick yeah so the next one and i'm trying to swivel back and forth here the next two were 01:10:36.900 --> 01:10:44.900 more about sort of sentiments from group members about mental health unit and response i think as 01:10:44.900 --> 01:10:50.260 you all are aware that that's getting ready to roll out so the comment was a recommendation was 01:10:50.260 --> 01:10:54.340 support for a new mental health division unit and concept to pair officers with mental health 01:10:54.340 --> 01:11:00.660 counselors wherever possible use this alternative response and i'm sure as chief dixon shared with 01:11:00.660 --> 01:11:05.780 all of you during the presentation about this this is started a large part of a larger national trend 01:11:05.780 --> 01:11:11.300 a lot of police departments in all different sizes are starting to do this it's becoming adopted more 01:11:11.300 --> 01:11:16.500 and more frequently the next item again was more of a sentiment i'm not trying to just brush through 01:11:16.500 --> 01:11:22.980 these but they're more of a an idea with the recommendation contained in it officer wellness 01:11:22.980 --> 01:11:27.620 supporting for increasing resources and focus on officers mental health and wellness to value 01:11:27.620 --> 01:11:32.820 officer well-being and mitigate potential use of force situations and develop a way to monitor 01:11:32.820 --> 01:11:40.980 or watch for signs that something is wrong so if anything this whole as we all know this pandemic 01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:45.780 has pulled back the curtain on just emotional mental health for a lot of people and officers in 01:11:45.780 --> 01:11:50.580 particular and those of you that know officers or are you've gotten to know officers you know that 01:11:50.580 --> 01:11:55.540 their situations it not only impacts them it impacts their whole family so it's uh it's more 01:11:55.540 --> 01:12:01.460 than just them and providing them resources to cope with that these coping skills so i'm just 01:12:01.460 --> 01:12:07.860 going to move on to the next one which is about training which i know you had lengthy discussions 01:12:07.860 --> 01:12:12.740 about and impressed by the amount of training was provided that's more that's a statement 01:12:12.740 --> 01:12:16.740 uh the recommendation increased the frequency of the mental health training provided to all officers 01:12:16.740 --> 01:12:21.940 regular cultural cultural diversity and sensitivity training increase the training 01:12:21.940 --> 01:12:26.980 awareness to engage with people with disabilities both intellectual and physical many more intellectual 01:12:26.980 --> 01:12:32.340 disabilities than autism which dentin police department has been training on so sort of adding 01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:37.460 to that list of how they're addressing people all different walks of life and their services that 01:12:37.460 --> 01:12:42.820 they provide help you making sure they're equipped i'm not sure we're going to cover all the topics 01:12:42.820 --> 01:12:54.740 because they're things are happening on a regular basis any thoughts about that oops well 01:12:56.580 --> 01:13:02.740 and one of the things we talked about sarah in the uh assistant chief and i was just connected 01:13:02.740 --> 01:13:11.940 to use of force in particular um even connected to that biannual report and uh whatever sustained 01:13:11.940 --> 01:13:19.700 complaints that are internally or externally uh maybe thinking through how going training or at 01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:25.140 least focused training in the department can be sort of based on that data comes in throughout 01:13:25.140 --> 01:13:30.660 the year of just particularly around sustained complaints if there's a number of sustained 01:13:30.660 --> 01:13:37.540 complaints or whatnot just letting the sort of data of those help drive whatever ongoing training 01:13:37.540 --> 01:13:42.500 pointed to knowing that at different times in the life of the department there's just 01:13:42.500 --> 01:13:47.620 going to be different things to focus or refocus on and so that was something under training about 01:13:47.620 --> 01:13:55.060 is how in some of that data particularly regarding internal or external complaints drive some of the 01:13:55.060 --> 01:14:03.780 training in an ongoing way okay i capture that there bo gary yeah it kind of ties back to 01:14:03.780 --> 01:14:11.380 communication as well as accountability but to be able to show scorecard wise department as a whole 01:14:11.380 --> 01:14:18.180 where do we stand in terms of having completed all training for all employees across the department 01:14:18.180 --> 01:14:30.260 it's always a moving target but where do we add is even given point in time okay i added that as well 01:14:30.260 --> 01:14:36.980 anything else on training 01:14:42.900 --> 01:14:48.820 okay the next one's policy and there was one item on there i feel the department is doing well with 01:14:48.820 --> 01:14:53.140 policies impressed by the process over the last two two years to update all the orders and move 01:14:53.140 --> 01:14:57.860 to alexa pole system do not feel there is much to offer specific to policy changes 01:14:57.860 --> 01:15:03.700 other thoughts about the policies 01:15:06.500 --> 01:15:15.460 lillian and then cameo i'm a little afraid to talk now but i'll do my best to stay on topic thank you 01:15:15.460 --> 01:15:22.900 although i thought mr ibarra was going to be the one that facilitated that portion of our talk but 01:15:22.900 --> 01:15:34.420 anyway on um i feel that most of the policy that i've seen i feel that most of the policy that i've 01:15:34.420 --> 01:15:40.580 seen hold on a second lillian katina can you have your husband turn his uh thank you 01:15:40.580 --> 01:15:47.780 but he's all he's all yeah and there there's no shade being we're working as a team here 01:15:47.780 --> 01:15:55.060 so i feel that most of the policy that i've seen and i i apologize because i was trying to go back 01:15:55.060 --> 01:15:59.060 to my notes to see if i could find one in particular but most of the policy really 01:15:59.060 --> 01:16:04.420 protects the officer um i'd like to see if there's any policy that could be in place 01:16:04.420 --> 01:16:10.020 uh that could protect the residents of the community um i'm just going to throw that 01:16:10.020 --> 01:16:13.620 out there like i said i don't have a specific one right now i'll try to go back to my notes 01:16:13.620 --> 01:16:21.380 and if i can email sarah to find a specific instance then i will okay thank you cameo 01:16:23.780 --> 01:16:30.580 uh as it regards policy um i wanted to share that during my like one-on-one interview 01:16:30.580 --> 01:16:39.620 i mentioned how we saw a lot of different policies um but what shocked me was that there 01:16:39.620 --> 01:16:45.060 were so many different layers between the state and the local and the county um and making that 01:16:45.060 --> 01:16:50.980 like really explicit because i think when we had community members call in there were definitely 01:16:50.980 --> 01:16:57.460 things that they thought related to things dpd could change that they couldn't so like as a part 01:16:57.460 --> 01:17:04.660 of communication like making that more transparent and clear um around the policies that are state 01:17:04.660 --> 01:17:13.940 and not state and all of that other stuff okay both uh one of the things i i told you remember 01:17:13.940 --> 01:17:23.940 this or mr cronic but we we got and maybe even the meeting we took a while to talk through um 01:17:23.940 --> 01:17:31.060 use of force policy as it was connected to basically police officers protecting their 01:17:31.060 --> 01:17:36.420 own lives i don't know if you remember that and what i remember from that discussion was just 01:17:36.420 --> 01:17:41.620 the fact that at least to us reading it and certainly we're not filtering it through the 01:17:41.620 --> 01:17:46.820 legal standards that mr cronic you would or whoever there might be more aware of those things it just 01:17:46.820 --> 01:17:54.340 the fact that we needed so much discussion around it um meant that it wasn't clear to us 01:17:54.340 --> 01:18:01.460 exactly what it was saying until chi clarified it with his own word hence that may not be anything 01:18:01.460 --> 01:18:08.980 we can do in the act policy itself but i think on the occasions front of just here's the essence 01:18:08.980 --> 01:18:13.380 of what this policy communicating in regards to use of is that essentially 01:18:13.380 --> 01:18:19.140 officers when their life or somebody else's danger they can protect it but in any other 01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:26.420 it's inappropriate and i think that's what you had said chief and uh again the policy just didn't 01:18:26.420 --> 01:18:34.260 read that um forcefully or clearly to us but again that's because i assume it's being filtered 01:18:34.260 --> 01:18:39.620 through legal filters as well as others so i just wanted to bring that back but it wasn't as much 01:18:39.620 --> 01:18:45.860 that uh i don't i don't know if there's any as much as maybe that dips back into communication 01:18:45.860 --> 01:18:53.940 thank you thanks bro other comments about policy 01:19:00.580 --> 01:19:04.580 okay uh the oversight will be addressed at your meeting next week 01:19:04.580 --> 01:19:11.140 uh by the by mike crony to walk you through all the particulars for that 01:19:11.140 --> 01:19:16.740 the intent here as i mentioned earlier tonight the beginning of the meeting was to 01:19:16.740 --> 01:19:21.940 gather any sort of additional polish to the recommendations put some new ones out there 01:19:21.940 --> 01:19:29.060 what sarah and i will do is go back over our mind notes her notes try to see if there's overlap 01:19:29.060 --> 01:19:35.380 here polish up the wording of it best we can without you know trying to make sure that that's 01:19:35.380 --> 01:19:41.940 the essence of it and get those back out to you hopefully by the end of next week so you can look 01:19:41.940 --> 01:19:49.620 at those we're not sure how many are going to end up being attributed to each category it may be 01:19:49.620 --> 01:19:53.860 where there's not one or two so we'll have a process we don't want to make it complicated 01:19:53.860 --> 01:19:59.620 for voting but if there's so many that you need to make a selection there will have a process 01:19:59.620 --> 01:20:03.860 it may be there ends up being one or two recommendations per category and we'll 01:20:03.860 --> 01:20:09.140 confer with the chair uh sheryl english to find out maybe an approach to make sure that reflects 01:20:09.140 --> 01:20:17.220 yeah john or uh sheryl do you want to call on john and jane go ahead john uh thank you um i guess 01:20:18.580 --> 01:20:24.420 i think we've captured a lot of the conversation that i remember my only question is this 01:20:24.420 --> 01:20:34.180 when this goes back to the community are they going to say this is what i was expecting 01:20:34.180 --> 01:20:40.260 or is there are they or will the community be looking for something you know i think you know 01:20:40.260 --> 01:20:47.380 we're talking about use of force and all the things are so but for someone who hasn't been 01:20:47.380 --> 01:20:54.980 in these meetings they may be a little disappointed with such a um um straightforward presentation 01:20:54.980 --> 01:21:00.260 anyway that's just my impression so there's no disrespect i think we've worked hard and 01:21:00.260 --> 01:21:05.060 we've tried to get everything but when you when it when it goes on the front page of the newspaper 01:21:05.060 --> 01:21:09.700 and say this is what the recommendation is uh what's the response going to be 01:21:11.860 --> 01:21:21.300 okay jamie it is as if mr baines read my mind um i think that there are some things that i 01:21:21.300 --> 01:21:29.460 they maybe they aren't universal but i think there are some pieces about sharing for the community 01:21:29.460 --> 01:21:37.220 what is the responsibility of the denton pd versus other law enforcement agencies what are sort of at 01:21:37.220 --> 01:21:44.820 the third grade level how are we allowed to change or or develop policy as a department 01:21:44.820 --> 01:21:50.660 because there's law that is guiding a lot of that right some of those communications and 01:21:50.660 --> 01:21:56.740 foundational building blocks that we have learned as part of our ongoing conversations as a committee 01:21:56.740 --> 01:22:04.660 i believe they have to be teed up first because it makes some of then our future recommendations 01:22:06.420 --> 01:22:13.060 make a little bit more sense i feel like and so to the point about the dashboards and the 01:22:13.060 --> 01:22:19.780 statistics that we have received about the use of force incidents in the community my hope is that 01:22:19.780 --> 01:22:28.020 when we move to selecting our choices for some of these categories that if we identify that there 01:22:28.020 --> 01:22:34.180 are some spaces that are universal at the outset there are some other things that you know i think 01:22:34.180 --> 01:22:40.980 are important here so you know i hope that as we're doing our voting we there's some way some 01:22:40.980 --> 01:22:53.140 mechanism to take that into account camion ah i didn't have time this week to give approval for 01:22:53.140 --> 01:22:58.740 the statement that i wrote but i suggested that a statement be added to the report that kind of 01:22:58.740 --> 01:23:04.980 responds to the community's concerns because this committee had a call out to community members to 01:23:04.980 --> 01:23:12.500 call in and so we have a little bit of a duty to respond to those things um the statement talks 01:23:12.500 --> 01:23:19.300 about the narrow scope of the committee like we had one thing to do but the community clearly 01:23:19.300 --> 01:23:25.220 responded that they wanted this this that and the other and i recommended that the city put together 01:23:25.220 --> 01:23:31.140 a different committee not necessarily an ad hoc even if it's a research to discover what it is 01:23:31.140 --> 01:23:36.340 the community really wants to do with their relationship with dpd like the city should 01:23:36.340 --> 01:23:40.580 figure that out because that's what the community seems like they want and that's not the scope of 01:23:40.580 --> 01:23:47.620 this committee okay and and and with that being thank you with that being said we had a charge 01:23:47.620 --> 01:23:55.780 to come up with recommendations for use of force and i agree uh one time uh with willy because we 01:23:55.780 --> 01:24:04.420 usually don't we are very off topic and um we need to get back on topic we have patrick here to do 01:24:04.420 --> 01:24:12.180 that and we need to stay on topic with what recommendations that we have for the city and 01:24:12.180 --> 01:24:18.100 the police department with regards to use of force right now we have a lot of public relation 01:24:18.100 --> 01:24:23.380 things that we're talking about which have nothing to do with the use of force 01:24:23.380 --> 01:24:32.420 so we need to get back on topic well addressing some of those public relations is going to 01:24:32.420 --> 01:24:36.260 eliminate some of those unnecessary use of force things that could happen in the future 01:24:37.300 --> 01:24:44.820 um i probably will agree and disagree with you on some of that but right now we've made 01:24:44.820 --> 01:24:52.740 we've made what we are supposed to do is to have policy on use of force and what we would like to 01:24:52.740 --> 01:25:00.180 see and not see not to say that what you're saying is not important but just as much as how you feel 01:25:00.180 --> 01:25:05.220 about your perspective and your experience with the police department you have a whole other part 01:25:05.220 --> 01:25:10.660 of the city that feels like i don't really want the police department to do all these things 01:25:10.660 --> 01:25:16.580 because we don't have enough officers as it is what we want is them to do their job and keep us safe 01:25:16.580 --> 01:25:24.900 so if we can find a way to marry the two uh yeah i got text messages too now i'm looking at i'm 01:25:24.900 --> 01:25:30.020 looking at everything that sarah typed up because then we're off then she's off topic on here with 01:25:30.020 --> 01:25:35.940 mental health and officer wellness and then none of that relates if you're it does relate because 01:25:35.940 --> 01:25:42.660 if those particular if those particular issues end up with a problem with the police department 01:25:42.660 --> 01:25:49.460 and then there's use of force that isn't properly used then what what do we have what have what 01:25:49.460 --> 01:25:58.340 policy have we put in place to prevent that but right now we're talking about everything off topic 01:25:59.620 --> 01:26:08.500 willie did you have something you wanted to say yes i do i i feel the frustration with everybody 01:26:08.500 --> 01:26:15.220 because when i finally figured out what we are here to do i thought well that's just a small 01:26:15.220 --> 01:26:27.300 portion of really what i hoped we would do and i want to do but guys sarah summed up what we all 01:26:27.300 --> 01:26:33.460 talked about that we wanted to add in this recommendation and that's all we have is a 01:26:33.460 --> 01:26:42.340 recommendation to the city to the city council and it's a small little part it's a little small 01:26:42.340 --> 01:26:49.700 part it doesn't cover go anywhere close to what i my person what i want to talk about and what i 01:26:49.700 --> 01:26:57.460 want to bring up so i thought okay here's what he asked me to do we got to make a recommendation 01:26:57.460 --> 01:27:03.860 sarah has put all this stuff together that we said we want to talk about that's the topic we just got 01:27:03.860 --> 01:27:09.700 to stay with the topic it'll be a smart we will say to the police department something like this 01:27:09.700 --> 01:27:17.780 we think you're doing a good job wonder if you would just do this one other little thing that 01:27:17.780 --> 01:27:25.300 we want done as a committee and then be able to say that and the key words that the city councilman 01:27:25.300 --> 01:27:32.740 said they wanted was something that we if we could communicate clearly and that it was something 01:27:32.740 --> 01:27:39.780 they could do now that's how the small that's going to be so small minute that doesn't change 01:27:39.780 --> 01:27:46.900 what you this committee has done for me tonight i'm fired up so i'm going to address some of those 01:27:46.900 --> 01:27:52.660 other issues i'll figure out how to do it if i just have to virtually get talk to the city council 01:27:52.660 --> 01:27:58.260 over and over threaten my son that he not to come over and eat no more and we're going to see the 01:27:58.260 --> 01:28:05.620 children uh and not him the grandchildren i'm just kidding i just but i i i'm going to do something 01:28:05.620 --> 01:28:11.780 else but this committee has nothing to do with that we we just don't we're going to make a 01:28:11.780 --> 01:28:18.740 recommendation as to what we think the city council should do and this one issue and it's 01:28:18.740 --> 01:28:24.900 got to be communicated clearly and it's got to be something that they can do so i get that 01:28:24.900 --> 01:28:33.380 so that's where i want us to go from this point on please so i'm just gonna i have a question 01:28:33.380 --> 01:28:39.700 when the officer was talking about engagement and communication and we were offering our responses 01:28:40.420 --> 01:28:48.340 we're because it seems like going off topic is selective to be quite honest and some people get 01:28:48.340 --> 01:28:55.140 to have long diatribes about whatever they want and some people seem to not be able to speak and 01:28:55.140 --> 01:28:59.620 whenever they speak we're off topic so when we were talking about communication and engagement 01:28:59.620 --> 01:29:05.140 what would have been the proper response so i can make sure that i don't go off topic again 01:29:05.140 --> 01:29:11.140 because i want to understand where we went wrong from our chairlady thank you 01:29:11.140 --> 01:29:27.220 we are here for a charge for use of force and we have talked talked about everything but that 01:29:27.220 --> 01:29:33.620 where does communication and engagement fall in and again what should but that's not what they ask 01:29:33.620 --> 01:29:40.660 us for but they talk about communication and engagement was he not i just wanted i'm not he's 01:29:40.660 --> 01:29:46.340 just going over what you guys all put uh what all everything you guys when you talk to them 01:29:46.340 --> 01:29:52.180 he's going over the summary of what everybody said so when he asked for questions should we just not 01:29:52.180 --> 01:30:00.980 have responded you can respond to what the question that he answered so i'm trying to see where the 01:30:00.980 --> 01:30:04.900 off topic happened was it with miss ronda talking about her personal experience and everybody 01:30:04.900 --> 01:30:12.580 responded what was the off topic we we are off topic of what we're supposed to be doing and 01:30:12.580 --> 01:30:18.580 that is the charge i'm not here i'm not here to argue back and forth i'm here you asked for a 01:30:18.580 --> 01:30:25.380 moderator you have one and we're trying to get through this i just don't want to go off topic 01:30:25.380 --> 01:30:30.580 again and i'm see like i'm not trying to argue i just want to make sure that i don't go off again 01:30:30.580 --> 01:30:36.180 because then we get we get we get you know slapped on the wrist and told that we're not talking about 01:30:36.180 --> 01:30:43.060 what we're here for but we were responding to the progressive conversation well i would i will tell 01:30:43.060 --> 01:30:50.100 you this from this point on if anybody's off topic i'm going to tell you you're off topic i've tried 01:30:50.100 --> 01:30:57.860 to have let you guys have leeway and say what you have to have and we're off topic and we need to 01:30:57.860 --> 01:31:03.300 stay on topic because we cannot continue week after week after week and we still don't have 01:31:03.300 --> 01:31:09.220 any recommendations at some point we have to wrap this up charlotte if i might be able to help a 01:31:09.220 --> 01:31:15.300 little bit yes the exercise that sarah went out with the team and talked everybody about that 01:31:15.300 --> 01:31:23.860 wanted to participate you know the the officer's training the department's transparency of of 01:31:23.860 --> 01:31:30.100 information of use of force the policies as they relate to use force that was tonight's subject 01:31:30.100 --> 01:31:36.820 and the idea was you've had a lot of education in these areas training transparency policies 01:31:36.820 --> 01:31:42.420 they all relate to use of force you know and how well prepared our officers are how well we're 01:31:42.420 --> 01:31:46.020 sharing information these are all things that the committee when we first started talking uh 01:31:46.020 --> 01:31:52.420 might bring you together wanting to know we've had a number of you that are wanting to head into also 01:31:52.980 --> 01:31:57.140 you know reporting oversight options that sort of thing for use of force that will be the next 01:31:57.140 --> 01:32:03.140 meeting but you know if there's any ideas of where we're falling short on training how how 01:32:03.140 --> 01:32:08.260 we're presenting information to you on use of force taser type incidents and what policy updates 01:32:08.260 --> 01:32:11.780 that the chief's been working out with this team if there's any other ideas that we should be adding 01:32:11.780 --> 01:32:19.700 in that was the focus tonight next week we'll have a overview from michael on other options for 01:32:19.700 --> 01:32:25.220 for oversight of reporting it'll be and that would be the the conversation there but it's really 01:32:25.220 --> 01:32:31.700 those four topics that feed into the use of force recommendation so then trying to give you a little 01:32:31.700 --> 01:32:36.580 bit of perspective for again and just kind of remind everyone what the exercise was last week 01:32:36.580 --> 01:32:42.660 and we're just trying to make sure that those ideas those that input that you have what what 01:32:42.660 --> 01:32:49.460 else should we be adding in this feedback to the city council and those in those areas in particular 01:32:49.940 --> 01:32:54.180 and that's what we're trying to make sure that people understand what we're trying to do. 01:32:54.180 --> 01:33:05.460 Thank you Todd. Patrick is that all you have to present tonight as far as where we're 01:33:05.460 --> 01:33:11.460 are we finishing a little early? Yeah finishing a little bit early we we I believe we accomplished 01:33:11.460 --> 01:33:17.140 what the intent was to flush out and polish up some of these recommendations obviously there still 01:33:17.140 --> 01:33:42.900 the city manager. And you share all about how do we bundle this together for the next for not for the 10th, but for the 17th meeting again next week is entirely about the oversight. Okay. So, um, All right. Yeah. Okay. So Michael's next week. Yes. Okay. Thank you, Patrick. Yeah. 01:33:47.700 --> 01:33:53.220 So we're done for tonight. Sarah, do you keep fixing? Do you have something you want to add? 01:33:53.220 --> 01:34:11.420 Yeah, if you guys don't mind for just a second, I just want to let you guys know that although some of your conversations get very spirited, the team and I are over taking notes about everything that you're discussing, whether it's relevant or not. We're not here to discuss that. 01:34:11.700 --> 01:34:22.300 We're taking them. We're talking about them. And if you've noticed over the last few weeks, we've actually implemented some of the things that y'all have been talking about, and we're looking at other ways to do business. 01:34:22.300 --> 01:34:39.260 So don't think that we're not taking to heart the entire discussion in its entirety. We are. You'll see as many times looking at each other or looking down while we're taking notes. So I want to make sure that you guys know that this is not a lost conversation. 01:34:40.380 --> 01:34:56.340 That we are truly vested in making ourselves better and in turn making our city better. So I appreciate all the comments from everybody because that's the only way we're going to get better is if we're critical. We just have to remember not to make it personal. 01:34:57.900 --> 01:35:14.460 Well, and I want to add to that Chief Dixon, I certainly shared a lot of what I heard, even if it wasn't related specifically to use of force with the police department on a lot of valuable feedback from the community members and the police department was very appreciative of that. 01:35:14.860 --> 01:35:30.620 And you guys saw Dr. Williams as well in all of those interviews. So it was a really good opportunity for us to have more detailed dialogue with each of you. I know some of those aren't coming out right now here in this meeting, but really wanted to thank you for that. I know that the police department really appreciated that as well. 01:35:30.620 --> 01:35:32.940 Thank you, Sarah. 01:35:32.940 --> 01:35:38.100 Yeah, well, and then after that, we're going to close out the meeting. 01:35:38.100 --> 01:35:41.100 I just want to be prepared for the next meeting. 01:35:41.100 --> 01:35:43.380 Or to 01:35:45.100 --> 01:35:49.740 Staying on topic, which we're going to use. 01:35:49.740 --> 01:36:04.420 So city manager, you'd said tonight was meant to be about, you said there were four topics. I'm just trying to get those categories locked in. Tonight was we were reviewing some of the feedback we gave, but then 01:36:04.420 --> 01:36:12.220 Maybe what at least I missed on the front end that specifically we were honing in on training and policy. 01:36:13.940 --> 01:36:26.020 Yeah, and as well as transparency or reporting. How are we reporting on the instance. How does the community know, you know, what's taking place. How many complaints, we've had use of force compliance taser complaints so 01:36:26.020 --> 01:36:32.340 Chiefs already started, you know, addressing the way that we're reporting that to its more open facing. 01:36:32.340 --> 01:36:41.300 You've seen all the work that he and his staff have been doing on the policies. Is there anything that's missing and then the training. We did get a lot of valuable feedback from 01:36:42.340 --> 01:36:47.180 From the committee here in terms of, you know, really questioning our mental health training in particular. 01:36:47.180 --> 01:36:57.100 You know, and is there an ability to add coursework is their ability to partner more with you and T T W. You. These are all suggestions and questions from you guys that we are following up on 01:36:57.100 --> 01:37:03.900 Immediately following these meetings. So it's been a lot of these iterative questions with the idea was, did we miss anything 01:37:04.380 --> 01:37:14.580 And is there, is there anything else that you want to see as we're formulating these recommendations so we can get a report back to counsel. Here's all the questions that you had. Here's all the areas you challenged this and here's what we've been doing. 01:37:14.580 --> 01:37:21.180 The next the next meeting is going to focus purely on forms of either reporting or oversight. 01:37:21.180 --> 01:37:28.500 Because there's a lot of there's a lot of discussion out there about things that you know we possibly can do. And there's many things we can't do. 01:37:29.540 --> 01:37:43.740 And so I think Michael will be able to shed some light on that. And then we're going to put those forms of various forms of reporting in and back away and let you have really focus on what kind of oversight or reporting, you know, 01:37:43.740 --> 01:37:55.900 Oversight, would you like to see. I mean, do you think we should consider so it may not be obvious that you've done a lot of the heavy lifting, but by sharing that information. We just want to know, was there anything we missed. 01:37:56.580 --> 01:38:03.500 And we, I guess, by making these incremental changes along the way. It's been a little maybe not so obvious to everyone. 01:38:03.500 --> 01:38:05.060 Yeah. 01:38:05.060 --> 01:38:12.100 Okay, thanks. So next week is just staying on topic. Stay connected to the oversight conversation. 01:38:12.100 --> 01:38:23.980 It's going to be forms of oversight. What is what what's a possibility and what's really not a possibility and Michael will be able to take you through the state statutes on that and and try to explain that a little better as well. 01:38:23.980 --> 01:38:25.740 Thank you. 01:38:27.540 --> 01:38:32.100 We'll close out with Jamie and then we're going to close out. Go ahead, Jamie. 01:38:32.100 --> 01:38:42.020 I just had a question that will help me. I think to Bo's point, I'm going to stay focused on those topic areas, but I'd also be curious. How do you 01:38:42.620 --> 01:38:57.260 Madam Chairwoman, what, what is your preferred method for us to have some discussion and decorum that will get us to the end goal that you're looking for. How would you like us to interact with each other or share responses or things like that. 01:38:57.260 --> 01:39:09.380 You can still share the way you've been sharing. We just have to keep time as a factor because we have a lot of information that we still need to get through and we still need to come up with the recommendations I would 01:39:10.380 --> 01:39:12.820 I would hope that they would be brief and on topic. 01:39:12.820 --> 01:39:16.860 Thank you. Okay. 01:39:16.860 --> 01:39:17.660 So, 01:39:17.660 --> 01:39:30.180 Cheryl, Cheryl, can I just say one thing. I just offer to the group, as in all groups. This is going to be a messy process. We're trying to zigzag back and forth from the wide to the narrow and I wouldn't measure the success of this group by the length of your list. 01:39:31.540 --> 01:39:44.660 It's more the impact of what you come up with not you got 40 recommendations, better to have a few that are implementable than a lot that may just be well intentioned, but they don't really have recommended about what you should do. I'm just offering that as perspective. 01:39:44.660 --> 01:39:47.100 And you'll be back next week. Right, Patrick. 01:39:47.100 --> 01:39:50.660 No, because Michael is going to be just presenting the oversight. So I'll be taking 01:39:51.300 --> 01:40:06.020 A week after that. Yeah, I'll be back on the 17th. All right. Yeah. All right. Well, we are finishing on our meeting and then we will see you again next week at the same time and then Patrick will see you on the 17th.