WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.200 Okay. Hello, everyone to the Board of Ethics meeting today, July 30, 2020. It's 3.02, so 00:00:13.200 --> 00:00:19.800 just a couple of minutes after we were supposed to start. It appears everybody on the board 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:24.400 is here. We don't have any alternates that needed to be here, so we don't have to talk 00:00:24.400 --> 00:00:29.080 about any absences or excused absences or anything like that because everyone's here. 00:00:29.080 --> 00:00:36.000 So we'll jump right into it. Item 1A is consider the approval of draft meeting minutes for 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:42.120 June 25, 2020, which was our last regular meeting, and July 7, 2020, which was our last 00:00:42.120 --> 00:00:46.920 panel meeting for an advisory opinion. I went through them, and I already sent my changes 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:52.120 to Madison, and I believe they were in the last board packet everybody received. Does 00:00:52.120 --> 00:01:03.400 anybody else have any changes or motion? I move to approve them. All right, Annetta moves 00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:10.240 to approve them. Do I have a second? Second. Second from Sharla. All in favor say, or is 00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:15.440 that the right way to do it, Trace? Well, if in person, yes, but because we're on video, 00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:22.760 you've got to do it by roll call, just so that everybody votes. Sorry. Sorry, that came 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:31.000 up last time. I want to make sure I did it correctly. Okay, Annetta? Safer. Dawn? Oh, 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:41.880 sorry, Dawn, you're muted. Can we get a thumbs up, or do we need to like actually have people 00:01:41.880 --> 00:01:48.560 say something, Trace? And now you're muted. Yes. Oh, there we go. There's Dawn with a 00:01:48.560 --> 00:02:00.800 yes. Okay, Ronnie? Yes. Ron? Yes. Patricia? Yes. And Carla. Sharla, I'm sorry. Yes. Okay, 00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:08.520 all right. Minutes approved under 1A. Okay, coming to 1B, hold a discussion and give staff 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:16.160 direction on holding Board of Ethics meetings during the emergency declaration. So our last 00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:25.880 meeting was June 25. And on June 26, the council had its seventh emergency order. And I'll 00:02:25.880 --> 00:02:38.160 bring this up real quick on my share screen. Okay. And under A of the emergency order, 00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:43.840 all committees and boards, with the exception of three, are to only made as necessary to 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:50.320 consider time-sensitive items critical for the continued operation of the city and provision 00:02:50.320 --> 00:02:56.960 of services to the public. So there's a few boards that were exempt from this, but ours 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:07.920 was not one. Yes, Madison? I'm sorry. I think on Tuesday, actually, the council may 00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:15.300 have voted to change that language. Do you know, because I think they got direction basically 00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:20.440 to change it to say other boards and commissions will meet as necessary to consider items. 00:03:20.440 --> 00:03:26.640 They did. And I was going to bring that up. Okay. Chair, if I can share my screen. Yes. 00:03:26.640 --> 00:03:33.880 Did that get approved as an ordinance? It did. It was approved on Tuesday night late. 00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:40.220 I was unaware. Right. No, no, no. This is all a kind of a moving target. So if I may 00:03:40.220 --> 00:03:50.480 share my screen, if I can find the button. Am I missing the button? Oh, there it is. 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:59.240 I found it. Great. All right. Did that work? I'm not seeing it yet. I don't know. There. 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:09.780 There it is. Okay. Right here under 6A4 was changed to other boards and commissions shall 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.720 meet as necessary and as resources allow with priority given to the boards and commissions 00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:21.560 that have time sensitive items. So basically, it's been relaxed a little bit because our 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:27.640 wonderful DTV crew has really worked through stuff and have made it so that we can have 00:04:27.640 --> 00:04:32.380 much more than we originally expecting. So council took out the thing about the actual 00:04:32.380 --> 00:04:40.160 items needing to be critical for city services. And so long as we can get on an agenda, we 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:45.240 can meet virtually like this, but priority will be given and we could possibly be bumped 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:50.640 if there are other boards that have time sensitive matters. Okay. All right. Well, that changed. 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:57.560 I mean, I think that changes it a lot. So I guess now it's almost we could have meetings 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:01.460 whenever we want. It's just that somebody has something time sensitive. Like if we had 00:05:01.460 --> 00:05:08.840 a panel meeting, we would bump somebody else or somebody. Okay. Well, so sorry. Yes, that 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:14.280 just happened late Tuesday night. Yeah. I just barely didn't get it to you before this 00:05:14.280 --> 00:05:19.960 happened. That's fine. I mean, I think, well, I think everybody and their jobs and private 00:05:19.960 --> 00:05:28.100 life and everything is changing constantly right now. Okay. Well, I will say the last 00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:36.480 meeting we talked about forming ad hoc committees and possible more changes to the edict ordinance. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:42.120 But when Madison told me about the former six a that it's only time sensitive, we took 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:46.560 that off the agenda because we figured we couldn't do any of that. So now we're back 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:53.480 to we can have meetings. So we're back to board discussion of the next meeting, which 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:59.960 I guess Madison, do you already have it set for August? Yes. So it's set. It's on the 00:05:59.960 --> 00:06:08.520 schedule for August 27th, which would be the last Thursday of the month. And if we wanted 00:06:08.520 --> 00:06:14.440 to have that meeting, we would obviously have the approval of this minute, this meeting's 00:06:14.440 --> 00:06:21.000 minutes on the agenda. And we could include the subcommittee discussion as well. Okay. 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:28.920 Um, all right. So the agenda item is to give staff direction regard. I'm sorry, give staff 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:35.960 direction as far as future meetings. And so nothing's changed. I'll say that I'm still 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:42.600 of the opinion that if we don't have anything new coming up, we shouldn't just meet to make 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:50.840 up reasons to meet. And if there's nothing on the table to change the ordinance, you 00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:55.280 know, I just I don't think we should have the meeting. But I guess if the rest of the 00:06:55.280 --> 00:06:59.720 board feels like we need to meet and need to make up an exploratory committee for things 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:05.160 to change on the ordinance, we can. But I'll reiterate that that I just don't think it's 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:13.560 necessary. But I'll open that up to whoever wants to speak. Okay, I get a point of clarification 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:20.000 because I thought this was time sensitive. And I thought that council had instructed 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:27.720 the board to come up with a better conflict of interest definition. My when I when I presented 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:34.040 to them, they asked if we want it to continue to work on the conflict of interest. There 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.540 was no like timeline given. I mean, there was no I don't I didn't really feel a sense 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:45.200 of urgency. That's not how I heard it. I heard that they really wanted something to look 00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:51.080 at. Um, I don't know. I mean, you could go back and look at the meeting, but that's not 00:07:51.080 --> 00:07:58.920 the impression I got. I don't know if Madison heard anything else from city council. Um, 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:07.200 I think the way that I read the ordinance, the original declaration in in terms of also 00:08:07.200 --> 00:08:14.080 with the ethics ordinance was since there's like a set timeline for advisory opinions 00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:18.760 and ethics complaints, those were clearly considered time sensitive to me. And then 00:08:18.760 --> 00:08:22.920 I wanted further direction from the board if they wanted to consider anything else critical 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:39.320 or time sensitive. So is there any more discussion on the August meeting and whether we should 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:48.040 continue with what we talked about on last month on June 25 to create an ad? Well, I 00:08:48.040 --> 00:08:52.160 guess in August, we'd have to discuss whether we create an ad hoc committee that would then 00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:58.680 decide if there's anything that once we want to change in the ordinance. And like I said, 00:08:58.680 --> 00:09:04.360 I'm of the opinion that if we want to change something, we talked about it as a whole group. 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:11.360 And to me, it sounds like creating meetings to create more meetings, be honest. Is there 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:19.880 any more opinions on that? Just Madam Chair, just I'll add that, you know, as we talked 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:24.760 last month, the idea of the ad hoc committee was came up and I'm the one that said we couldn't 00:09:24.760 --> 00:09:27.680 do it last time because we weren't posted for it and we weren't. That's something that 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:32.560 we could post on the next meeting of a, you know, consider nominations and appointment 00:09:32.560 --> 00:09:37.240 of an ad hoc committee. And then if it's decided that you don't want to want to, it's decided 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:45.800 that the board does not want to do it. That's still fine. Okay. Well, go ahead. I was just 00:09:45.800 --> 00:09:51.840 because, but yeah, if, if there's going to be something we would need to have it posted 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:56.960 for something like that, not just like it was last month. Okay. So I think the question 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:03.360 for the board is, do we want to meet in August on August 30th to decide if we want to create 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:17.800 this ad hoc committee? I have a simpler solution, I think. May I speak? Yeah, go ahead. Is this 00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:25.920 committee specifically for the conflict of interest? Well, that's what we'd have, I think, 00:10:25.920 --> 00:10:31.440 I think that's what we'd have to discuss at the last meeting on June 25th. That, I think 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:40.760 that was the idea, but we would have to host a agenda item to create an ad hoc committee. 00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:45.080 And then we discussed what was in the ad hoc committee then. So I guess today we're deciding, 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:51.640 do we want to do that next month? And then I think, Annetta, did you have something? 00:10:51.640 --> 00:10:57.760 Here's my simpler solution. Has anybody seen the ethical code for the employees of the 00:10:57.760 --> 00:11:09.200 city of Denton? I think it has come up before. It's pretty, it's pretty amazing. It looks 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:14.680 like it was taken from an ethical, a model ethical code somewhere. So I think what we 00:11:14.680 --> 00:11:20.440 could do is we could look at the conflict of interest definition and with very little 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:28.160 tweaking, changing out the word employee for city official, we would have a definition 00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:34.680 that is clear. And I mean, it's, I know Todd Howman brought it in when he came to the city, 00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:40.520 but the whole thing is just amazing. Okay. So I guess then you're proposing that next 00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:46.880 meeting we speak about. We just look at the conflict of interest for the city of Denton. 00:11:46.880 --> 00:11:56.800 Okay. And then I think Charla, I'm muted. Did you have something to add? Anybody else 00:11:56.800 --> 00:12:07.800 have an opinion on having a meeting in August and what we would do in that meeting? 00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:15.840 Let me make sure I understand. I wasn't at the last meeting. You're asking us if we want 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:23.640 to decide during the August meeting, whether we want an ad hoc committee to consider potential 00:12:23.640 --> 00:12:28.600 changes. Is that something that we can't do today? 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:34.360 No, it has to be posted. So we were going to post, that was going to be on today's agenda. 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:40.200 But when we made today's agenda, we were told that we had to just only have meetings for 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:45.280 emergencies pretty much. So then we decided, well, we can't have, we can't even have ad 00:12:45.280 --> 00:12:51.840 hoc meetings because they wouldn't be emergencies. So it's taken off today. So now we're talking 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:58.320 about next month and off. So if we don't put it on the agenda, we don't 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.480 have to deal with it then. Is that correct? That's correct. I mean, I think if we don't 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:07.520 put it on the, I mean, if we don't have anything to discuss, we wouldn't have a meeting next 00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:14.200 month. But if there's something we need to put, that we need to discuss, whether it be 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:19.240 an ad hoc committee or the conflict of interest or whatever, then, then we could have a meeting 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:23.960 next month. Madam chair, if I can just add that, because 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:28.040 the board's subject to Toma, council specifically wanted this board to be subject to Toma, we 00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:35.080 had to post this meeting before council passed the updated order on Tuesday. So this was 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:40.000 posted under order seven. It's just now going forward, we're under order eight. 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:45.060 Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, for those that may have been questioning, well, since council 00:13:45.060 --> 00:13:48.200 changed it, why didn't we add it into this? It's because this meeting had to be posted 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:58.720 before council even took that action. So I hope that helps. 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:05.260 I guess my question again, I mean, further would be if we haven't decided the conflict 00:14:05.260 --> 00:14:11.120 of interest question yet, why wouldn't we have August meeting to deal with it? 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:19.440 Well, I, so in the June meeting, we talked about when we, when I presented to the council, 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:26.760 they asked us if we had come to an impasse on conflict of interest or had not. And I 00:14:26.760 --> 00:14:32.240 think we have the board decided last last meeting in June, that we have not come to 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:41.480 an impasse. But I think, you know, I mentioned at the board meeting last month, I don't think 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:46.200 it's very productive for us to just sit and, and discuss for three hours the same things 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.200 that we've hashed out for several meetings. So, you know, and probably not three hours 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:56.640 on zoom, but in the past, we've had them that long. So I, my thought was, unless we have 00:14:56.640 --> 00:15:01.320 something concrete to discuss, you know, why, why are we having a meeting just to go in 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:06.440 circles like we've done before? But, you know, if everybody wants a meeting next month to 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:11.520 discuss conflict of interest, we can do that. And that's what I'm asking now to give direction 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:17.920 to Madison as far as the meeting next month. Madison, I just want to clarify that in June, 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:22.480 you gave us to gave staff direction to have a regularly scheduled meeting every month. 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:27.200 So the direction I would need to be given would be to cancel the August meeting. Otherwise, 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:33.920 we will have an August meeting. Okay, unless we get direction to cancel it. So I guess 00:15:33.920 --> 00:15:43.880 my question is, is everybody still want to have the meeting in August? I guess and Netta 00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:52.800 and Patricia want to have the meeting. How about everybody else? If, since we don't have 00:15:52.800 --> 00:15:59.040 a clear definition of what we're doing with, I think we need to just to put it to rest 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:04.640 so we don't have to keep going over this week, we do need to finally just make a decision. 00:16:04.640 --> 00:16:09.000 It's this and leave it alone because it can't keep going over and over and over again and 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.920 again and again. Do you mean like the conflict of interest or whether we're going to change 00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:20.960 the conflict of interest? Well, all of them. Oh, I think Ronnie might have that. I mean, 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:26.600 we need to, I think it's, we've been having this since last year. Yeah. And that's my 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:34.160 thought is that I just, you know, having meetings over the same thing, you know, is inefficient. 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:40.360 And so, but like I said, if everybody wants, if there's a majority wants to meet, continue 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:51.240 to meet, we can continue as we gave direction. I guess, you know, Sharla, Ron and Don, do 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:59.720 you, do the three of you want to meet or? A meeting in August. Okay. So I guess that's 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:07.560 the majority. So we'll just continue to meet and we'll have a meeting in August. All right. 00:17:07.560 --> 00:17:19.840 So I think that covers one B moving to one C. Don, could you mute, please? Madison. So 00:17:19.840 --> 00:17:26.760 for the August meeting, what I've heard is we may want to put the committee subcommittee 00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:31.640 item on there. And then we may also have a proposal for the conflict of interest item 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:38.040 from Annetta that we want to put on there. Is that correct? Yeah. I guess whoever wants 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:43.520 to submit changes, the conflict of interest should submit them and then we'll know what 00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:49.180 to put as far as the agenda items. And I mean, I think Annetta said what she wants is if anybody 00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:56.240 else has any ideas, they can send them and we'll discuss it at the August meeting. All 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:05.520 right. Okay. Is there a deadline to submit ideas? Well, I would say, I mean, how much 00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:09.480 time do you want, Madison, maybe a couple of weeks by a couple of weeks send everything 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:18.520 in? Yeah. So the, we have to post. Yeah. I would say if you could by the 19th of August 00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:24.320 submit your ideas, I think that would give us enough time to post everything. Make sure 00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:28.760 we had everything that you wanted to submit. And when would, so the meeting would be said 00:18:28.760 --> 00:18:36.760 the 27th? That's correct. Okay. Um, and I, I actually have an, uh, a training for work 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:41.600 the 19th and the 20th, so I don't know if that changes anything, Madison, if it's harder 00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:47.000 to get in contact with me. I mean, I'll have con I'll have my email, but I think we have 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:55.520 to post 72 hours before Trey. Is that correct? Ma'am. That's correct. Okay. Yeah. So if need 00:18:55.520 --> 00:19:00.520 be, I mean, I think we can get proposals by the 19th and then we'll be able to post after 00:19:00.520 --> 00:19:07.140 that. That won't be the day we post basically. Okay. All right. Was there somebody else that 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:11.960 tried to speak before we move on? When you said that you've got a training, does that 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:18.160 mean that you're not going to be able to attend the meeting in August? Oh no. My training 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:22.920 the 19th and 20th, the week before, I'm just saying as far as Madison getting the agenda 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:27.120 items out, she's in the past, she's emailed me and called me. We've talked about what's 00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:34.720 on. So, um, so we'll be good. I, I mean, I, I can be there on the 27th, but so far, I'm 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:41.000 an attorney, so sometimes hearings get set, but the other thing is, uh, I'm still trying 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:50.560 to understand this. If we don't put the ad hoc meeting, uh, issue on the agenda, then 00:19:50.560 --> 00:19:56.600 it's a done deal. It's a closed issue. Is it not? Uh, I mean, if it's not on the agenda, 00:19:56.600 --> 00:20:00.800 we won't be having it. So, I mean, if there's, if somebody has really strong feelings about 00:20:00.800 --> 00:20:12.280 that, I would say speak up or, or email me and Madison to put it on the agenda. Okay. 00:20:12.280 --> 00:20:21.140 Anything else about the meeting for next month? Okay. All right. So moving to one C receive 00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:26.520 report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the publication of advisory opinions 00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:32.960 issued by the board of ethics. So, um, this is an issue that Madison had brought up when 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:39.360 we give the advisory opinion, you know, we meet and they're filed with the city auditor 00:20:39.360 --> 00:20:44.800 and the person who requests copy of them, but no one else sees them. So she had talked, 00:20:44.800 --> 00:20:49.520 she had suggested that we put that on the website so that everybody can see what we 00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:55.280 came up with. And so city officials can also use that as a resource to maybe, you know, 00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:59.680 look at that as far as when they're making a decision before they, you know, have a given 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:04.600 opinion on the same issue or something of that nature. So, um, I mean, I'd be in favor 00:21:04.600 --> 00:21:09.840 of this. Um, I guess I'll open up to discussion or if everybody's in favor, we can just move 00:21:09.840 --> 00:21:18.040 forward with, um, publish publishing, publishing the advisory opinions on the website. I think 00:21:18.040 --> 00:21:31.200 that would be great for transparency. I like that. Okay. It sounds like Annetta and Don 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:36.880 are for it wrong set up, uh, gave a thumbs up on it. So he's for it. Uh, Ronnie for it. 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.280 I think it's, I think it's unanimous. So Madison, I would say, uh, you know, do whatever it 00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:46.040 takes with it or whatever to get that on the website. All right. I can get those, um, onto 00:21:46.040 --> 00:21:49.840 the board of ethics webpage. And, and once that's up there, I'll send an email to y'all 00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:53.080 so that you're, you can go see them if you would like. And so, you know, that they're 00:21:53.080 --> 00:22:00.640 up there then. Okay, thanks. All right. So moving to the last item, one D receiver report, 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:06.200 hold discussion and give staff direction regarding professional services agreement for the board 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:18.800 of ethics legal services. And, uh, let me get to that agenda item. All right. So as 00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:25.040 of, I believe July 7th, the spending authority under the current contract with the board 00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:34.480 has law firm, um, has been exceeded. Uh, the contract that was given, sorry, the kids are 00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:40.120 coming in and out of the door. If I'm looking sideways, this is my life now, but okay. So 00:22:40.120 --> 00:22:48.760 the, uh, contract that was, um, in the, in the packet that everybody got it, I just wanted 00:22:48.760 --> 00:22:53.240 to point out, cause when I first read it, I was wondering if they were like $4,000 for 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.960 ethics meeting. And that is not the case. Um, when they've come to our ethics meeting, 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:04.600 it's been two hunts, two 45 an hour. And the much larger sons, I think were for the public 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:08.960 hearings, where Alan Borquez actually helped write the ordinance, the city council. And 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:14.080 I, and probably maybe the first few ethics board meetings that he came and trained everybody 00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:21.000 back in 2018. Um, so, and also for the new newer people, Alan came to the first few meetings. 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:27.540 He then sent someone from his firm who I guess we found to be less, um, less helpful than 00:23:27.540 --> 00:23:34.560 we want it. And we gave him feedback. And at this last, um, panel we had for, uh, an 00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:39.160 advisory opinion, he sent a different, um, a different attorney, which we didn't have 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:45.960 a whole lot of communication with him, but, uh, he did, he did contribute. And when we 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:51.920 wrote our, our advisory opinion, he actually took it and made it a lot better. So, um, 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:57.000 he was helpful. So anyways, so that's the background with Borquez. And like I said, 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:02.480 there was somebody that was sent that we weren't that impressed with after we saw him and before 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:10.160 the new guy that came in. And what we have to decide today is to amend the current contract 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:15.280 with, with the Borquez law firm to continue services and board of ethics. And I'll also 00:24:15.280 --> 00:24:19.240 point out, um, especially for, for, I know Patricia's new, I'm not sure how familiar 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:27.040 she is with this. We use special counsel when there is a, um, when a council person is, 00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:31.440 um, there's an advisory opinion or a hearing on a council person, because there's a conflict 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.980 of interest then with the city attorney or when the city attorney asks for special counsel 00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:42.000 or when city council asks for special counsel. Okay. So back to our option. Um, we can amend 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:49.000 the service agreement. And my understanding is that would still be $245 an hour for, um, 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:54.040 for, I guess in the new attorney that he's sending, or we can solicit proposals for legal 00:24:54.040 --> 00:25:00.280 services for the board of ethics. Um, I guess I talked to Madison and I mean, is it because 00:25:00.280 --> 00:25:06.760 of all this COVID, is there any issues with soliciting or the staff have like an opinion 00:25:06.760 --> 00:25:13.480 of what we need to do? Um, I don't, we've been soliciting, um, services, uh, throughout 00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:19.240 COVID. I don't think that there would be an issue necessarily. Um, when I did talk to, 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:24.120 um, the city attorney, he mentioned that there aren't very many, um, legal firms that are 00:25:24.120 --> 00:25:27.960 specifically, you know, specialize in ethics. So that might be something to consider. And 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:33.200 I do want to say, I cannot, um, for certain say that it will continue to be the $245 an 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.720 hour. Okay. Um, because, because we would just go back to them and, and see what they 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:43.720 wanted to do, um, in some respects. So, but I can't imagine it would go up a wild amount. 00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:50.320 So, okay. So I guess, um, as the board, uh, I'd like to hear everybody's opinions as far 00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:55.920 as if we want to just continue with the board has law firm or solicit proposals for a new 00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:07.360 firm. Solicit proposals. Uh, anybody have a strong opinion for, that 00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:13.880 we shouldn't put the proposal? Would it be something we could do for the next meeting 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:19.800 for the next 30 days? See what that way we wouldn't let it linger. Once again, something 00:26:19.800 --> 00:26:25.320 like just keep lingering, lingering 30 more days to see if there's someone better or whatever 00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:31.280 you, how you want to word it. Um, next meeting, if we solicited a proposal, we would, we would 00:26:31.280 --> 00:26:36.760 begin going through the procurement process. So we would issue, we would, um, write a request 00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:43.000 for proposals and issue that, and then it would be advertised for 14 days. Um, and then 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:47.680 there would be an evaluation team most likely who would evaluate all the, the people who 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:53.800 submit. Um, it wouldn't necessarily just be based on price, although that would be a component. 00:26:53.800 --> 00:27:02.200 Um, I, I think if we decide to solicit proposals, Borquez could obviously also submit a proposal 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:08.240 and we could end up back with them. Um, but we wouldn't be assured that we could go back 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:17.240 to them basically if we submit, if we solicit proposals. Did that answer your question? 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:24.920 So it probably wouldn't be in the next 30 days. Sounds like we might probably the evaluation 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:32.120 would not be before the next meeting. That's correct. Okay. And Dawn, did you have something 00:27:32.120 --> 00:27:40.160 to add? I'm, I'm not sure. I haven't heard anyone state that we're really unhappy with 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:48.200 them and they've done such a really good job really in writing what we have now. Um, the 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:53.800 rate that they're charging, I think it's very reasonable and I'm not sure it's necessary 00:27:53.800 --> 00:27:59.640 for us to even go out and get new proposals, although there's, I don't really see any harm 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:07.440 based on what the medics have told us. Yeah, I kind of, I mean, I'm not exactly unhappy 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.520 with Borquez. Um, I mean, I think there was one attorney that we didn't really like, but 00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:17.680 um, I like, I liked Alan, I liked the last one we had, but it doesn't sound like there's 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:23.600 a whole lot of harm in soliciting. I mean, I, I don't know unless I guess they found 00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:27.720 a defensive that we solicited, but I don't think they would and like not want to work 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:37.760 with us anymore. It just may be unnecessary work. That is true. Uh, any other opinions 00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:47.560 on this? I'm just kind of curious why it is a conflict of interest for the city attorney's 00:28:47.560 --> 00:28:54.560 office to represent the city. Uh, well, I guess I don't really want to get into that 00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:59.600 during this meeting because I mean, we had a meeting where, um, Erin Leal presented, 00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:07.280 um, and as an attorney, you can't, um, you can't represent two conflicting parties. And 00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:11.160 when there's a complaint and the board of ethics is hearing the complaint and the complaints 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.800 about a city council person, they can't represent both the city council person and the board 00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:20.680 of ethics. There's, there's just a conflict of interest as a lawyer. So he didn't feel 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:32.960 comfortable doing it. And I understand. Okay. So I guess it doesn't, there's not an action 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:40.480 item on 1D. So, um, I guess I'd like to hear everybody else's opinion to see if there's 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:46.240 enough people, if I guess I've only heard kind of two voices solicit and not solicit. 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:51.440 Um, does anybody else have strong opinions on whether we should solicit, uh, new firms 00:29:51.440 --> 00:30:02.560 or stick with Alan's firm? Either Annette or Ronnie or Charlotte or Patricia. 00:30:02.560 --> 00:30:12.280 Yes, solicit. I, I just still don't understand the conflict of interest, but that's. 00:30:12.280 --> 00:30:20.600 Well, yeah, there is. I mean, I agree with Lara. I mean, it's just state bar rules of 00:30:20.600 --> 00:30:28.080 rules of ethics. Yeah. I think Ronnie was trying to say something. I think he's muted. 00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:38.560 Oh, I was going to say, does, does it really, my question was, is it really going to benefit 00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:47.440 us to get somebody else or just stay with who we have and call it quits for the future? 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:54.300 I guess that's for us to decide. Um, well, if I may say, I mean, I think the hourly rate 00:30:54.300 --> 00:31:01.240 is very reasonable. Um, 245 is very reasonable. So if it's, you know, and I speaking from 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:08.560 an attorney standpoint, of course. Yeah. I mean, you know, that can be anywhere up to 00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:14.960 $800 an hour. So, and if you're not, if you're not really that unhappy with them, wouldn't 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:19.080 it cost a lot of money to change to a different firm because they would start from scratch 00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:24.920 or would they start from scratch? Well, it costs more money to start over with somebody 00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:33.600 else. I think so. Yeah. I mean, uh, I mean, we've had this firm since the city decided 00:31:33.600 --> 00:31:40.480 to, I guess it's Alan's firm has been with it, with the city the whole time since they 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:44.600 started doing the, started putting together the ethics code. And for all of our board 00:31:44.600 --> 00:31:48.880 of ethics, it hasn't always been him. Like I said, there's been three different attorneys, 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.360 but um, yeah. And I think Madison, did you have something to add? Um, I'm not certain 00:31:53.360 --> 00:31:57.720 about this. So Trey, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's possible we could 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:03.680 ask, um, Borquez to give us a proposal, um, to amend their current agreement and we could 00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:08.720 bring it back to you at the August meeting. And then we could have a discussion then if 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:22.520 we wanted to continue with them. I'm not sure if that, uh, works, Trey, for sure. But essentially 00:32:22.520 --> 00:32:28.840 we would, we just need an amendment to increase the spending allowance. Um, and then if we 00:32:28.840 --> 00:32:35.560 ask them to, for asking for an increase in their rate or anything, we would not ask for 00:32:35.560 --> 00:32:41.680 an increase in their rate, but they might propose one. I think what it is is July 7th 00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:48.840 was the, was the end of, uh, when we could, we could pay them. So we need a new, we need 00:32:48.840 --> 00:32:55.780 an amendment just to keep having legal services. Correct. Madison, does the contract have an 00:32:55.780 --> 00:33:08.760 expiration date? No. It just has a, a do not exceed amount essentially, which we have 00:33:08.760 --> 00:33:16.980 now exceeded. Um, I guess what I'm, I mean, I think what's going to have to happen, whether 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:23.480 we solicit, I mean, we'd either solicit and we come back next month or possibly the next 00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:31.600 month and look and decide on who we go with, or we would still have to amend with the Borquez 00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:38.760 law firm. Um, since there's not a whole lot of opinions to solicit, I think we could go 00:33:38.760 --> 00:33:42.980 back to the Borquez law firm and see what they have to offer and maybe look at that 00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:47.800 next meeting and then decide if we want to solicit. Should we, and if we decide we don't 00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:51.160 want to solicit and we like the amendment that the Borquez law firm has said, we could 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:56.320 just accept that and move on. Um, how does that sound as far as what we need to do, Madison? 00:33:56.320 --> 00:34:03.120 And as far as the board, does that sound acceptable? I think we can do that. Uh, Trey, do you 00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:10.400 have any opinion on that option? This is not my area of expertise. Uh, okay. Mack is the, 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:17.040 is the purchasing guy, but if, if, right, if the original engagement letter we had with 00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:22.400 them had a do not exceed amount and we've now reached that cap, the issue is we can 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:31.160 either continue our engagement with them fairly straightforward because, um, attorneys are, 00:34:31.160 --> 00:34:36.120 are a professional service. It's, it's subject to slightly different procurement rules than 00:34:36.120 --> 00:34:41.640 buying supplies so that we could continue on with the people we have. But obviously 00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:46.520 we would need something. We would need a different PO, a different engagement so that we could 00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:52.760 pay them properly because we've met the cap of the first one. Or if the board decided 00:34:52.760 --> 00:35:02.400 that they didn't prefer this firm, we could look for other firms. I think is where we're 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:11.680 at. So if, if we wanted to see what the, if we've got a, the current contract with my 00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:16.320 understanding of this is, and again, bear with me, is since the current contract is 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.200 met it's do not exceed cap and we're gonna have to do something different. The question 00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:22.880 to Borquez can be, is it going to be under the same terms? Are we going to have the same 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:28.840 hourly rates per, depending on who's, who's there or are you going to raise something 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:32.040 or you're not going to be available for some things? Is he going to change what he's willing 00:35:32.040 --> 00:35:37.680 to offer the city or not? And we can bring that back and let y'all know. 00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:41.400 I guess would y'all like to proceed that way to see if they would keep everything the same 00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:47.200 and then maybe, and I would imagine that would be quicker than a soliciting new offers. And 00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:51.120 since we're having the August meeting, we can then see what it is there and then decide 00:35:51.120 --> 00:35:56.920 for sure whether we want to solicit or not. Does that sound like a plan? 00:35:56.920 --> 00:36:00.840 I think that sounds like a good plan. Okay. Do you need a motion for that? 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.880 I don't think so. Cause it just says, give staff direction. So I don't think it's an 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:11.860 action item. I think we can just kind of work by consensus there. So anything else you need 00:36:11.860 --> 00:36:20.720 on agenda item 1D Madison? No, I think that that makes sense. And I'm 00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:26.800 99% sure we can get a proposal to have on the next agenda from them. 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:32.400 Okay. All right. So then, yeah, so next meeting we'll, we'll discuss that. And then if everybody 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:39.680 can get any proposals they have as far as conflict of interest to Madison by the 19th, 00:36:39.680 --> 00:36:44.960 I think that is everything we have today, unless anybody has something we miss and not 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:50.400 seeing anybody jumping up and down. So thanks everybody for jumping on the computer. And 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:56.400 the next meeting will be August 27th, I imagine at 3 PM again. I spoke about this at another 00:36:56.400 --> 00:37:01.720 meeting since where you have to do on zoom, we have to use Denton, city of Denton IT. 00:37:01.720 --> 00:37:06.600 So unfortunately we have to have it during work hours, which I know for those of us that 00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:11.900 are still working from home, isn't always easy, but we'll try to all make it. So, okay. 00:37:11.900 --> 00:37:16.280 Well, thanks everybody. And we'll, oh, meeting adjourned, I guess, or do I need a motion 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:19.680 for that? No motion. Okay. All right. Meeting adjourned. 00:37:19.680 --> 00:37:20.680 No motion. Sorry.