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 Good evening. This is the City of Denton Ad Hoc Committee, the use of force committee for

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 the Denton Police Department in the City of Denton. As we talked about last week, we are

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 going to have a presentation to follow up with some questions that you had last week.

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 We're going to do the first 30 minutes going over the presentation by Assistant Chief Bobby

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 Smith and then we will take calls from the community and we have already received, which

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 you should have been emailed, 40 comments via email. So I'm going to turn it over to

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 Assistant Chief and let him get started on the documentation in the request that you

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 got for last week. Good evening, everybody. This is Bobby Smith,

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 Assistant Chief of Police. It's a pleasure to be back with you tonight. I had some questions

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 from last week. Just wanted to follow up with you. One of the things that came up last week

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 was sort of a breakdown of the city when it comes to demographics. And so this is a chart

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 that we use internally and actually externally. This is the information we send to the Texas

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 Commission on Law Enforcement when we report our traffic stop data for racial profiling

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 purposes. And so this is how we have the city broken down when we send it off. If you look

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 in the middle of the screen there where it says race ethnicity, as you go down, you can

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 see the numbers for the city, including 9.4% for black and African American citizens, 23.9

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 for Hispanic Latino citizens, and 61.8 for our white citizens. There's a couple of asterisks

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 there next to the Hispanic Latino. It's the way it's described is that this is an ethnicity.

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 That Hispanic Latinos may report any race, but we can capture the data based on ethnicity.

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 And I also went back and updated this chart. There was some questions about, we had some

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 unknown not listed. If you remember, there was about 33 cases there that we didn't have

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 cleaned up. I went back and cleaned them up as much as I possibly could, and it did affect

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 the numbers somewhat. We also ended up with a couple of more complaints that were updated

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 in the system when I ran the report. So the number is just a little bit different, but

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 I think this is a pretty good depiction of what we currently have. So you can see out

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 to the side there that 24% of our complaints that are citizen related are from our black

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 citizens, 8% from Hispanic citizens, 63 from our white citizens, 2% from Asian, and we

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 still have some that are unknown. This is a new slide that I have that you didn't see

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 this last week, but I went ahead and showed you what the sustained by race percentage

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 is. And you can see that out of the 51 complaints filed by black citizens, 10 were sustained,

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 which is a 20% sustainment rate, meaning that we did determine that the misconduct occurred,

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 28% for Hispanic, 26% for white, and a small sample size for Asian other, but still 25%.

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 And overall, we have a 25% sustainment rate on our citizen complaints. You also asked

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 for a breakdown of some of the citizen related complaints as far as allegations. And as a

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 suspected courtesy is the is the highest number of allegations when it comes to citizen related

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 complaints with 62 and then unsatisfactory performance with 46, which is off about it's

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 about half and half when it comes to internally and externally generated unsatisfactory performance

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 complaints. And service complaints mentioned this last week, but that's mostly related

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 to performance. And then after that, the numbers dwindled down. We've talked about the use

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 of force. We give you the 14 plus the taser down towards the bottom, which is the 18.

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 And as far as other allegations, there's one here that I'd like to give you a little insight

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 on. If you see where it says body worn cameras, that's those are not complaints that are filed

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 by citizens, but they are directly related to the citizen complaint because what happens

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 in those cases is somebody makes a complaint for for courtesy or unsatisfactory performance.

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 And if the officer was not wearing the body or not utilizing the body worn camera, then

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 we that's a sustained complaint. So it does happen occasionally where the officer either

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 forgets to or doesn't turn the camera on. And I broke down those there's two of its

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 highest allegations just to give you a little more background on it. When it comes to courtesy,

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 which is discourteous behavior, there was a total of 15 filed by our black citizens.

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 We had three filed by Hispanic citizens and 42 by our white citizens. For a total of six

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 to two. What was your questions on that? I thought I heard somebody asking a question.

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 Okay. All right. So this is the same kind of thing. We had a few we had those 46 unsatisfactory

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 performance complaints filed. This is a breakdown of that. I'll just let you look at that for

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 a minute. Yeah, some questions about our training. I did provide you with a little training report

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 that was based on the the actions taken in the complaints that you saw. Those just provided

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 some information in reference to those specific complaints. But in addition to those, we've

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 conducted some deescalation training, we have use of force simulator training coming up,

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 weapons handling skills. We've also had some situations where staff some staff members

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 may have mistreated another staff member in some sort of harassment situation. And we've

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 done human relations training, we brought in an outside trainer for that recently. One

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 of the gentlemen brought up last week about our website involving commendations and complaints.

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 And I told you we were updating that and we did update that with the help of our PIO and

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 one of our PIOs and also public affairs staff put together this just changed up things a

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 little the verbiage is a little bit different. The you can provide the commendations or complaints

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 in English and Spanish, which you could prior to this, it's just a little bit more. It's

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 just a little bit cleaner than it was. And one of the things and I'm going to talk about

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 this in just a few minutes, but there was some concern about being able to address certain

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 demographics in this complaint form. And are we talking about that just a minute right

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 now you can't currently do it, but we wanted to get a little feedback from you before we

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 do that. Also, hopefully you can see this fairly well. I wanted to provide you with

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 a little bit of insight on how complaints work when somebody makes a complaint, whether

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 it's through the internet phone, through a letter or any other means to make a complaint.

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 This is how we make that entry is called blue team. And this is essentially one stop shopping

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 for everything performance related. And including if you look, you can see that list, we have

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 external admin investigation. That's how we code that when a citizen calls in to make

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 a complaint. And then you fill out the information here and then you just go through the screen

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 and fill out all, all the information that's needed. And this is where we actually can

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 include the race and some of the other demographics. And I'll look over there to that. Here is

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 the reporting citizen information. If you look down at the dropdown box, this is, these

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 are the race categories that we have in our system. So if you want to take a look at that,

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 if you have any feedback on that, we, we can change things, we can add things, not necessarily

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 just a race, but apparently we can do it in different ways. So I wanted to show you that

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 because that's, these are the categories that we are using when we make these, these reports.

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 We also had some questions about being able to search by address. I just wanted to show

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 you how this would look. This is an internet based IA pro reporting system. So you can

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 go in there and you're set up. Your data fields are off to your right and there's different

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 types of data fields, but including addresses. I mean, you can search it by street name,

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 by street number, by zip code. And that's really about it. The rest of this stuff doesn't

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 really have much use. We can potentially add things if, if, if folks are interested about

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 certain neighborhoods, every neighborhood is assigned to a sort of a grid number that

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 we can, that we can use. And I'm sure we'd be able to put that in if we needed to. If

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 you want to search by officer information, this is only about half of the screen. Not

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 all this information is, is useful is what I'm finding. In fact, not very much of it

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 is useful, but you know, we have the badge number, the ID number of, of, and the date

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 of birth. So we know exactly how old the officer, we have the education level. So, but mostly

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 we're talking about race, gender, and also assignment, what division they work in, whether

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 it's patrol investigations or sometimes they put in rank. Here's our citizen data. If you

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 look to your right on the screen, you'll see the citizen information. That's about all

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 we have right now. What I'm finding out is, is mostly what we're looking at is again,

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 gender, race, age by date of birth. We can also determine whether or not someone was

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 arrested during, during the incident. And, but what you see there is about what we have

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 right now. And I would encourage you, if you have other things you want us to track or

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 you think as a committee, you think are important, that's something we absolutely entertain and

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 see if we can get that in there. This is our IAPro software. This is a little, this is,

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 it's the same, a lot of the same information, but it's, it's not internet based, but it's

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 very useful, particularly when it comes to use of force tracking. And, you know, spend

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 some time looking through there. You can run reports on all types of uses of force. We

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 can figure out whether or not someone is injured, you know, how many injuries we had, whether

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 it required hospitalization. Of course you can check use of force reports by, by race,

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 by gender. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of ability there to, to check our use

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 of force data. Was there any questions on that, on that information?

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 Did anybody have any questions on the, anything that, Assistant Chief Smith? Yes, Rhonda?

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 This is really more of a point of order probably for you or Sarah, but will we get these slides

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 by email or something? I think they'll be on the website. Oh, okay. Okay, good. Is that

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 correct? Yes, we were also happy to share those with you. Oh, they're on the police

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 force website. Uh huh. Oh, okay, good. I'll find them. Thank you. Oh, really? I just got

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 the, I just saw the complaints. My, my bad. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? So at

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 the last, hey, I am at the last meeting. I know that we had requested some more information

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 about the use of force, the 14, um, incidences. And we had asked for maybe a breakdown of

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 when in the last five years those that have occurred. Um, I know that only three were

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 sustained, but I think one of the questions was, was, was it an internal investigation?

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 Was it an external investigation? Um, was there, I know that, um, the attorney was going

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 to talk and figure out exactly how much information y'all could share legally. Uh, was there any

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 more information that was going to be passed out for that? Yes, ma'am, that this is what

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 we prepared. Uh, can you see that report there on your screen? And this is the information

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 that I felt legally we could release. It doesn't identify the officer involved if he or she

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 wasn't suspended. This was in our email as well, correct? As far as I know it was, but

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 I'll defer to Sarah about that. Yes, this was as well. But I did actually go through

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 and I broke down all 18 cases and I provided a narrative in every case. And maybe I basically

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 gave some details that I thought were important that you might be interested in. I mean, if

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 there's more information that we can share, we will. But as Mike said, there's certain

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 things we can share. Did anybody else have any comments or any

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 additional requests? Okay. Well, we're, thank you very much, um, assistant chief, um, Smith.

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 You're going to go into the calls. Um, so we're going to get them queued up now. I just

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 want you to know that, um, when the calls come in, there is a delay of about three to

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 five seconds. So, so they're going to queue them up and then yes, Ken. Yes, I'm so sorry.

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 I got on a tad bit late, um, because I had another meeting that I was on, but are we,

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 what is the protocol around the calls? They get queued in, we listen, can we ask them

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 questions? Do they ask us questions? Is there like, uh, like, uh, what we're supposed to

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 be able to do around engagement? I'm sorry if I missed that.

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 Okay. So they will, they will either have a question or they'll come on and have a comment

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 there. They have four minutes. So you have four minutes per call. I'm not sure how many

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 are queued up or how many will call in, but you can, um, make a comment, um, or, or ask

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 for additional, you know, questions or what have you during the call, but remember they

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 have four minutes and remember there'll be a delay. So in, in, you got a three to five

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 second delay in your calls, but you will be able to say something to them.

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 Yeah. Chair English, if I can add in, um, so the, yes, the committee members may ask

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 questions of clarification, um, to those that are calling in. So if there's something you'd

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 like to, um, ask for further information on or to clarify about what they have said to

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 the committee, um, the committee members are able to do that after they conclude their

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 comment. Sarah, if you could, could, um, does our question,

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 if I was to ask a question or, um, if, uh, any of us were, would it be included in their

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 four minutes or does time stop for us to ask that question and then their time continue?

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 So the speaker has up to four minutes and then upon conclusion of their comment, then

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 the committee members may ask questions for clarification. It does not count as part of

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 their time. So if you could just hang tight, they're

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 going to start getting them on the line. Okay. So we have nine calls that they're queuing

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 up so far and we'll leave the line open in case someone else wants to call in, but so

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 Hi caller. Hi. Who am I speaking with? Um, my name is Kristen Fox and I'm a part of

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 aid network Benton. Okay. And, um, yeah, I'm calling about the ad hoc committee and its

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 role in responding to recent demands to defend the police. Um, I personally believe institutions

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 other than the police should perform many of the functions currently designated to police.

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 Uh, this is one of the main demands of the current national movement and I'm concerned

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 that the use of force committee will function as a way to avoid contending with this demand.

00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:38.080
 Um, I know I not only want less use of force from police, I want less policing period.

00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:43.640
 Um, I want to defund the police and instead fund social services and education. Even as

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 a white woman, I have witnessed racial profiling by the Denton police department firsthand.

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 Several years ago, I was pulled over by a DPD officer for no apparent reason. He refused

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 to take my license and registration and instead demanded the license and registration of my

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 passenger, an indigenous woman who is at work right now and who gave me permission to relay

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 the story. By forcefully demanding her ID, Denton PD insinuated that she did not belong

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 in the country she is indigenous to because of her skin color. Ironically, I myself am

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 the granddaughter of an immigrant and my mother grew up largely outside the U S but of course,

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 I would never be profiled for harassment. I realized defending the police is a long term

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 process that many would rather not engage with despite the fact that many that nights

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 are my point of view. At the very least, I would like consistent and immediate consequences

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 for use of force such as impact on employment, benefit and pensions. I have watched our country

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 spend the last eight plus years trying to reform the police with little success. I watched

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 the city council voted to allocate funds to the facade of the police station rather than

00:19:51.080 --> 00:19:56.200
 adequately address the material needs of tenants during the pandemic. I believe it's the past

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 time to divest from policing and invest in community. Thank you.

00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:30.440
 Thank you, caller. Okay. The next caller was a question. Yes. Hold on, Willie. The next

00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:37.880
 is Faith. Yes. Hi, Faith. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Faith Sokol and I'm calling today

00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:43.680
 about the ad hoc committee's potential recommendations and its role in policing in Zutton. So the

00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.280
 second thing was policing demand solutions that focus on the actual prevention of use

00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:51.840
 of force, not reactions to a vote use of force. We shouldn't have to wait until something

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 tragic happens for the city to react. And we should now make use of force inconvenient

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 for officers to use imprudently. This means consequences for use of force or sorry, improper

00:21:04.600 --> 00:21:09.720
 use of force. I guess I should say concrete impacts on employment, benefits and pensions

00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:15.360
 and swift consequences instead of drawn out internal reviewing. So having spoken to the

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 importance of preventing unreasonable use of force in the first place, I'd like to

00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:26.840
 refer to general order 300 section 2.1 of the police department, you know, general orders.

00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:32.280
 And this is the duty to intercede. This shows out the duty and responsibilities that officers

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 have in intervening and reporting other officers' use of unreasonable force. When offering recommendations

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 for changes to the use of force policy, I ask that specific consequences be outlined

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 in the event that it is found that a fellow officer fails to report and more urgently

00:21:46.600 --> 00:21:50.960
 and perhaps more importantly fails to intervene in an imprudent and unreasonable use of force

00:21:50.960 --> 00:22:06.640
 situation. Thank you. Thank you. Did anyone have anything to say to the caller? Yes. Yes.

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:14.960
 I just wanted to say thank you for your input and we're doing the best that we can. Okay.

00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:24.440
 Thank you. Yes. I hope we can get a chance to respond after each call. We don't have

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 to wait until the second call. You're still on with the caller. Which one? The second

00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:45.200
 one. Okay. I think that what needs to be said is that there are many statements from the

00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:53.640
 first caller and the second caller that are given as though they're factual. And I beg

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 to differ. I don't think that those are factual statements about what's happening here in

00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:06.000
 the city. And I think they need to be addressed accordingly. If they're not specific to Denton,

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:12.080
 the city of Denton, then they need to be. Right, of course. But you are asking for stories

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 and the call for feedback, it was specifically stated and I realize it doesn't come from

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:23.880
 the committee itself. This comes from, you know, I can't remember the name of the organization,

00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:29.040
 what's the organization that the mayor himself signed up for. So I understand. But specific

00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:35.480
 stories were asked for and that's what the first caller provided. But the stories that

00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:44.120
 not Putin are dealing with the city of Denton. You're only on the second call and I assure

00:23:44.120 --> 00:23:50.960
 that the first caller's account did happen in Denton. So I wouldn't dismiss their input

00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:56.920
 or my input because you don't believe that these are relevant to Denton. Right, I don't

00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:02.440
 want to interrupt but I want us as a committee, like people are being vulnerable, calling

00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:08.840
 in and sharing their stories that might be traumatic to them and bad memories possibly.

00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:14.800
 And I want us to like, as a committee, meet people where they are and like believe them

00:24:14.800 --> 00:24:20.800
 for what they're saying if they say that this happened in Denton, then with Denton PD, then

00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:24.160
 we have to take them at their word because that's what we ask people to call here to

00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:32.400
 do. Thank you. And I do want to clarify that the first caller did say that the racial profiling

00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:41.440
 that she witnessed happened in Denton. Definitely. Don't take that, that just that one point

00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:48.800
 that I mentioned. Was it factual? And I guess the second caller saying, well, it's just

00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:54.480
 the way they saw it and I guess you're supporting that, that you if they think it was it happened

00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.840
 that way and that's how they felt and we just should take it for that value or the way they

00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:05.120
 said it. Okay, I can do that. But I'm going to preface that with it's the way they saw

00:25:05.120 --> 00:25:10.200
 it. There's no proof to back it up. And I don't think the statement should be made as

00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:15.880
 though it is if they were factual. But I can't accept the fact that that's how they saw it

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:22.280
 and then move on. Well, thank you. And I think also that's her story. So we're here to listen

00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:26.720
 to their story. And I think there's other stories that are very positive because I've

00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:32.920
 had very, very positive interactions with the Denton police, but we're here to listen

00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:39.000
 to her story. And the first caller has a right to tell her story and the second caller. So

00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:44.480
 I think that's, that's the message that we want to display. So I appreciate the first

00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:49.160
 caller and the second caller's stories, because that's what we're here to listen to. And Willie,

00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:54.480
 I agree with you because I've had very positive interactions as well, but others have not.

00:25:54.480 --> 00:26:03.120
 Thank you, Jamie. I was just going to say that in my opinion, the only space where I

00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:08.720
 am going to choose to comment is if I have a clarification that I feel like will help

00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:16.360
 me to better understand how to take the stories that we are hearing and move them towards

00:26:16.360 --> 00:26:21.920
 some sort of action for this committee. And then I have a comment in regards to the online

00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:27.800
 comments. There were some direct questions, at least as I read them about the committee

00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:33.040
 in terms of how it was formed and things like that. And my suggestion is that if we hear

00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:40.640
 additional questions like those over the audio calls as well, that potentially we could as

00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:46.160
 a committee draft some sort of FAQ. But I personally have made the decision tonight not to really

00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:52.200
 ask any questions or add commentary to the stories that we're hearing so that I can honor

00:26:52.200 --> 00:27:01.680
 and respect what it is that we are taking into. Okay, Camion, Katina, and then Donna.

00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:11.920
 Yeah, I guess I just wanted to add that as a committee, last time we reviewed some of

00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.880
 the stuff that was just shown to us about folks making complaints and we uplifted some

00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:22.000
 barriers to folks making complaints in regards to police that we want to address so that

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:29.580
 they can have an easier time. And I think that as a committee, if we don't choose to

00:27:29.580 --> 00:27:33.060
 accept people's stories for how they are, we're putting additional barriers for people

00:27:33.060 --> 00:27:38.880
 to call in and make their comments about their actual experience around police. So I just

00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:44.560
 wanted to lift that up. So let me clarify this. We are to hear the calls as they come

00:27:44.560 --> 00:27:50.200
 in. If we have questions or I'm sorry that was your experience, hopefully everybody's

00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:55.380
 taking notes if that's something that we want to come back and address at the next meeting.

00:27:55.380 --> 00:28:02.120
 It is not to challenge people as to what their experiences are because we all have different

00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:09.720
 experiences and we all relate to our experiences in different manners. So we're going to end

00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:14.820
 this call and then we're going to go to the next call. And so if we can just do that,

00:28:14.820 --> 00:28:19.900
 we need to ask them for some clarification or anything like that. But this is not an

00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:28.900
 attack on if it did or if it didn't that is their experience, that is their truth. Okay.

00:28:28.900 --> 00:28:49.920
 Thank you, caller. Thank you. Angelica. Hi. Yeah, this is my name is actually Angelica.

00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:58.060
 Yes, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay, not a problem. Thank you for calling. Yeah, absolutely. Um,

00:28:58.060 --> 00:29:03.620
 so I really just, um, so I have a statement prepared, but I kind of want to address the

00:29:03.620 --> 00:29:11.920
 conversation that was surrounding, um, the caller that, uh, that talked before me. Um,

00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:17.780
 and I, I, I do want to say that I agree with Kamiyan that, uh, challenging the callers

00:29:17.780 --> 00:29:23.540
 does create an additional barrier. Um, I know for me that that created feelings of anxiety,

00:29:23.540 --> 00:29:29.540
 um, when, um, the phone started ringing. Um, so I just, I really wanted to uplift with

00:29:29.540 --> 00:29:36.260
 Kamiyan said about that. Um, but I also did not call, um, to display the trauma I've experienced

00:29:36.260 --> 00:29:41.100
 at the hands of police in a public forum. Um, and I think that the conversation that

00:29:41.100 --> 00:29:45.540
 just happened, um, kind of hearkens back to actually what I did have to say, which is

00:29:45.540 --> 00:29:50.900
 that asking this as community of the community without offering support, um, to those who

00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:56.180
 have been traumatized by policing, um, is part of a larger pattern of behavior from

00:29:56.180 --> 00:30:01.980
 Denton PD. Um, when, when they invite communities who historically have contentious relationships

00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:08.380
 with law enforcement to essentially prove that these problems happen in Denton. Um,

00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:13.380
 and I have personally been part of a meeting like this for Denton PD. Um, and, uh, it,

00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:19.980
 it really, uh, was, it created another traumatic experience that I had with police. Um, and

00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:24.100
 I know that it seems the power that he and Denton are committed to believing that our

00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:29.100
 police force doesn't have the same problems. Other police departments do that. Our police

00:30:29.100 --> 00:30:34.540
 force is an exception to the rule that the death of Darius Tarver was an outlier and

00:30:34.540 --> 00:30:39.380
 that we should be thankful that Denton PD is maybe not comprised of the same racist

00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:44.220
 murders that make up other police departments. Um, but I refuse to be grateful for these

00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:49.300
 things from a body of people who claim to protect and serve me. Um, I also want to comment

00:30:49.300 --> 00:30:53.260
 on the fact that the top down nature of the formation and selection of this committee

00:30:53.260 --> 00:30:58.740
 can only mean that no matter how well intentioned, um, many of the members are, it will only

00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:03.580
 ever serve to protect the status quo. Um, and that the limitations of the mission and

00:31:03.580 --> 00:31:08.620
 scope of the committee prevent a conversation about the structural change necessary to truly

00:31:08.620 --> 00:31:14.940
 serve the residents of Denton. Um, because the ad hoc committee exists and this is, and

00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:22.260
 y'all are doing the work of reviewing policy. Um, I, I do have some suggestions, um, and

00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:28.580
 I encourage committee members to ask themselves these questions, um, when making suggestions

00:31:28.580 --> 00:31:33.620
 to policy changes. Um, so one, how does this policy serve the communities most affected

00:31:33.620 --> 00:31:39.700
 by policing? Um, two, how does this policy affect the power of police? And three, will

00:31:39.700 --> 00:31:44.780
 the policy require more funding for police? Um, so that's all that I had to say. Thank

00:31:44.780 --> 00:31:55.780
 you so much. Thank you. Yes, Katina. Thank you so much. And Helica, um, for calling in

00:31:55.780 --> 00:32:01.540
 and I just want to add, if I may, um, you know, positive and negative experiences of

00:32:01.540 --> 00:32:09.060
 the callers. Um, this, this, this forum is not to support or not support the city of

00:32:09.060 --> 00:32:13.740
 Denton police department. This is a larger conversation and I just want to say this,

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:18.740
 not necessarily to you, um, but just to kind of align to what you were saying. This is

00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:25.140
 not about, I mean, I, I have profound respect for Chief Dixon, but I'm also an African-American

00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:31.980
 woman with African-American children and we have, um, concerns about police brutality.

00:32:31.980 --> 00:32:36.180
 And so I know Pam, you were saying something about some of the calls are positive. And

00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:41.420
 in my mind, um, and I thank you for your comment, but in my mind, it's not about positive or

00:32:41.420 --> 00:32:52.460
 negative because positive, um, is also accountability pat positive sharing stories and, um, being,

00:32:52.460 --> 00:32:57.420
 you know, taking, taking them at face value. Positive is the fact that we're having this

00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:03.460
 civil discourse. Um, it, that positive doesn't just have to be, Oh, I love the Denton PD

00:33:03.460 --> 00:33:09.940
 and they're the greatest. Like that, that's all subjective, um, because it's not about

00:33:09.940 --> 00:33:16.860
 whether we love Denton PD or not or not. It's about the bigger conversation of, um, police

00:33:16.860 --> 00:33:23.460
 excessive force and how our citizens feel. And there are some comments that we've received

00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:29.700
 online that I'm not necessarily happy about, but it's not, this is not about me. This is

00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:36.100
 about the citizens. And though there are going to be many who call in who are not happy and

00:33:36.100 --> 00:33:42.020
 with Denton PD and who also are wanting to speak to the larger conversation of police

00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:48.980
 brutality. That's not just the city limits. So I just wanted to tagline and affirm what

00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:54.820
 you're saying. Thank you so much, but also tagline to kind of, um, lay out some things

00:33:54.820 --> 00:34:03.540
 as we, the committee are listening, um, and, uh, being a, an ear so that we can truly be

00:34:03.540 --> 00:34:19.980
 a voice for this, for, for our citizens. So thank you. Yes. I stand corrected. Um, and

00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:30.500
 I will, um, change what I do tonight. I guess what I've heard is that I'm here to listen,

00:34:30.500 --> 00:34:39.620
 not to respond in a questioning or a, a, a way that says, uh, just question, I guess,

00:34:39.620 --> 00:34:45.420
 cause I'm, I'm, my question basically was you were talking like those things that you

00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:52.420
 said are factual and I don't know that they are, but I don't know that they're not. And

00:34:52.420 --> 00:34:57.500
 so I questioned from that standpoint, but what I've heard from the last five people

00:34:57.500 --> 00:35:03.380
 is that, no, we're just here to listen and that's it. So I'll do that, but then I'm on

00:35:03.380 --> 00:35:08.780
 a question. Well, then why am I here on this committee at all? Anybody can sit here and

00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:13.340
 listen, but I'm going to just do that. I will just listen and then I'll decide what I'm

00:35:13.340 --> 00:35:20.100
 going to do about what I've heard later on. So, so I guess my next, uh, I will, I do want

00:35:20.100 --> 00:35:26.220
 to say something to address that is that if it's, if you're looking for facts, um, that

00:35:26.220 --> 00:35:31.460
 research is done, there's decades worth of that research where you can pinpoint, oh,

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:38.700
 the police do this many arrests to black people versus white people police. I think this many

00:35:38.700 --> 00:35:43.380
 black people versus this many white people are incarcerated. And like that research is

00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:51.300
 done. What is asked from the community today is to share stories. Um, so, so I just also

00:35:51.300 --> 00:36:01.300
 wanted to, to make that comment as well. I have a comment. Go ahead, Donna. Um, this

00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:06.540
 is Donna diamond. Um, I hear you and I'm listening to you as a student, um, at Texas women's

00:36:06.540 --> 00:36:12.700
 university. Um, this is kind of all new to me. And so the point of our committee is to

00:36:12.700 --> 00:36:18.340
 listen to the issues of Denton and to hear it. And if there weren't any issues, we probably

00:36:18.340 --> 00:36:23.540
 wouldn't have this committee in the first place. So we are here and we are listening.

00:36:23.540 --> 00:36:31.220
 Um, and so I, I fully respect what you have to say and what can can Tina, I believe that's

00:36:31.220 --> 00:36:37.540
 right or Tina had to say, um, because all of what she's saying was very much true. Um,

00:36:37.540 --> 00:36:42.260
 but we're just taking it one step out of one step at a time. And we're trying to see what

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:48.620
 the issues are at hand so that we can come up with a solution. And I do have to agree.

00:36:48.620 --> 00:36:54.220
 Some of the comments were kind of straight because, um, we are, some of us are very new

00:36:54.220 --> 00:36:59.540
 at this and we're just trying to dive into all of these policies and figure out what

00:36:59.540 --> 00:37:10.220
 to do best. Thank you for your time. Yeah, I just wanted to thank Angelica for, um, their

00:37:10.220 --> 00:37:18.540
 comments tonight and, um, uplift what they said around, um, folks having or feeling the

00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:25.060
 need to display their trauma in order to prove that they have had or gone through some issue

00:37:25.060 --> 00:37:32.460
 in regards to law enforcement. Um, and just wanting to mention that I appreciate you bringing

00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:38.700
 that up and that as a committee member, I will try to see if there's anything we can

00:37:38.700 --> 00:37:43.740
 do for the next time that we might have public comment to support people that are sharing

00:37:43.740 --> 00:37:48.540
 things because not only what you're sharing might be harmful, but some of the people that

00:37:48.540 --> 00:37:56.160
 have called in tonight have possibly had not a great, uh, engagement with their call here.

00:37:56.160 --> 00:37:59.980
 So also supporting the people that have called in and I hope that we can figure out a way

00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:05.380
 to do something to support people the next time. Thank you so much. Thanks, Camille.

00:38:05.380 --> 00:38:33.800
 Thank you. Is she on? Okay. Cindy? We're waiting for the next caller.

00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:48.940
 Hi, caller. Hello. My name is Cindy spoon. I'm calling to give comment. Okay. Okay. Um,

00:38:48.940 --> 00:38:52.420
 I guess I'll start by saying, I wish I had longer than four minutes to engage in this

00:38:52.420 --> 00:38:56.980
 conversation. I have a lot to say. I'm going to move through it quickly. I want to start

00:38:56.980 --> 00:39:03.020
 by saying that, um, history really matters. History really matters. And when I walk around

00:39:03.020 --> 00:39:08.220
 Denton, when I walk around Quaker town park, when I enjoy things like jazz fest, uh, going

00:39:08.220 --> 00:39:14.020
 to the library, I have to remind myself like black people used to live here. Black people

00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:18.820
 used to live here and they were violently removed and that history matters. And I think

00:39:18.820 --> 00:39:24.860
 the history of police coming out of slave patrols actually really matters as well. And

00:39:24.860 --> 00:39:28.860
 so I'm asking this committee to, to just sit with those histories and those truths and

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:36.460
 just hold them as y'all make decisions around what is the appropriate use of force. Um,

00:39:36.460 --> 00:39:40.340
 I want to also talk about, of course, areas Tarver. I want to ask what reforms y'all

00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:45.300
 are considering that would have resulted in saving his life. Uh, if this committee is

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:50.060
 not advancing an agenda that results in a different outcome for Darius Tarver, I'm not

00:39:50.060 --> 00:39:55.020
 sure it's what we need. I feel when Darius Tarver was killed by DPD and when Ryan McMillan

00:39:55.020 --> 00:39:59.780
 was killed by the UNT police, they were both clearly in mental health crisis. And so they

00:39:59.780 --> 00:40:03.940
 didn't need police right then. They needed help. Ryan McMillan was yelling, shoot me,

00:40:03.940 --> 00:40:08.380
 shoot me when a UNT officer shot him. So we need to shift our funding priorities to people

00:40:08.380 --> 00:40:13.980
 that will actually help them. I think we know that so much of policing is about quality

00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:21.580
 of life issues like homelessness, drug addiction, domestic violence. And so I think knowing that

00:40:21.580 --> 00:40:25.780
 increasing funding for things like housing and education, rehabilitation programs, health

00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:31.580
 services, instead of policing and surveillance is what we need to do. I understand this committee

00:40:31.580 --> 00:40:36.260
 is limited in scope, but I just wanted to say that to get to some specific requests.

00:40:36.260 --> 00:40:43.060
 Uh, I'd like to see an increase in site and release. I think it's imperative during COVID.

00:40:43.060 --> 00:40:47.420
 I know someone that has personally died in the Denton County jail before COVID. Now it's

00:40:47.420 --> 00:40:52.140
 even more dangerous. I saw today that there's 37 positive cases in the County jail. So the

00:40:52.140 --> 00:40:55.580
 police need to be thinking about that and holding that when they're arresting people

00:40:55.580 --> 00:40:59.780
 for low level offenses, that it could be a death sentence if you send them to the Denton

00:40:59.780 --> 00:41:05.500
 County jail right now. And, um, you know, jail it's, it's a proven, it's proven that

00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:11.100
 jail is a failed way to lower crime and failed way to lower recidivism rates. And I suppose

00:41:11.100 --> 00:41:14.820
 those are comments for a different committee. If you aren't dealing with the jail, but I

00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:18.420
 would like to see an increase in site and release. And I hope y'all push that on officers.

00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:22.900
 I also want to address specifically issues around transparency. I appreciate the presentation

00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:27.420
 that happened at the beginning of this meeting. And I'd love to ask for some more information.

00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:34.260
 Um, so for transparency, I'd love to ask questions about the police union contract, the Brady

00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:41.180
 list and what equipment and gear DPD owns that's intended for crowd control. So I'll

00:41:41.180 --> 00:41:45.500
 start with the Brady list. The Brady list is for, um, police officers that have lied

00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:50.220
 under oath or some other misconduct. I'm sure several of the folks on the committee that

00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:54.260
 have law enforcement backgrounds can explain it better than me, but this is information

00:41:54.260 --> 00:41:59.100
 that's kept from the public. And I think it should not be. I think both the city police

00:41:59.100 --> 00:42:03.260
 and the Denton County police, we should know who's on that Brady list, especially when

00:42:03.260 --> 00:42:08.180
 we're seeing officers arresting people at protest or responding to protest. Yeah. Using

00:42:08.180 --> 00:42:13.520
 use of force at all. I think one of the things that made the George Floyd murder so horrible

00:42:13.520 --> 00:42:18.820
 is that we know that that officer had just a long list of misconduct. He should have

00:42:18.820 --> 00:42:26.740
 maybe not even been on the streets at all. So I'm asking if in this new, like attempts

00:42:26.740 --> 00:42:30.340
 to be more transparent and build trust with the community to release officer names on

00:42:30.340 --> 00:42:35.500
 the Brady list, if there's any in Denton County, we deserve to know. Um, as far as the contracts

00:42:35.500 --> 00:42:40.660
 of police union contracts, um, I know that police unions have kind of unparalleled power

00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:45.580
 to shield police from accountability and prevent reform. I know some of you on this committee

00:42:45.580 --> 00:42:50.700
 represent the police union. I'm not sure that's appropriate. I don't know any of you personally,

00:42:50.700 --> 00:42:55.620
 so it's obviously not personal, but just with the amount of power you already have over

00:42:55.620 --> 00:43:00.060
 police policies in Denton, I'm not sure it's appropriate for you to be sitting on the committee.

00:43:00.060 --> 00:43:03.900
 Um, I tried to find the police union contract. I couldn't find it. Doesn't mean it's not

00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:10.100
 there. I found an old one signed by chief Howell from 2015 to 2019. Excuse me. Your

00:43:10.100 --> 00:43:17.620
 four minutes is up, ma'am. Okay. Okay. Does anybody have on the committee want to have,

00:43:17.620 --> 00:43:24.300
 I think chief Dixon wants to respond to that. I'd like to let it continue. Well, she has

00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:34.220
 four minutes and she's over her time. You can ask me what I saw in the contract. What

00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:45.300
 did you see in the contract? Yeah. So, uh, so, uh, so again, this is a contract that

00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:50.300
 ends in 2019. I assume it hasn't changed that much in 2020, but article five section one

00:43:50.300 --> 00:43:55.540
 means there's a 180 day rule that a police officer can be held accountable for some kind

00:43:55.540 --> 00:43:59.860
 of misconduct or offense or complaint. I would like to see that taken out. I don't know why

00:43:59.860 --> 00:44:04.900
 we would limit ourselves to like regarding use of force. Why, how long someone can be

00:44:04.900 --> 00:44:09.380
 held accountable for it's 180 days. That's an article five, section one and section two

00:44:09.380 --> 00:44:14.740
 of that same article is that there's a five day maximum suspension. And I also don't know

00:44:14.740 --> 00:44:19.540
 if that's appropriate. A five day maximum. If somebody maybe had to pull a gun or a taser

00:44:19.540 --> 00:44:24.500
 or something, maybe both of those are not long enough. Uh, article eight, section three

00:44:24.500 --> 00:44:30.020
 mentions that officers get paid at least three hours when they have to go to court and like

00:44:30.020 --> 00:44:33.820
 give testimony that they get paid to do that and they're off. So I'm not sure if that's

00:44:33.820 --> 00:44:39.100
 appropriate either. I would love to ask that the public is allowed to be involved more

00:44:39.100 --> 00:44:43.100
 in those contract negotiations. And the very last thing I will say, and I will give my

00:44:43.100 --> 00:44:47.920
 time is about the equipment and gear that Denton police own. I'd love to know for crowd

00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:52.520
 control purposes. Do y'all have tanks? Do y'all have pure gas? Do y'all have Elrad?

00:44:52.520 --> 00:44:57.180
 Like what are we, should we expect to see when we are protesting? Those are the ends

00:44:57.180 --> 00:45:06.340
 of my comments. Thank you. Chief Dixon. Good evening committee. I'll try to hit all those

00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:12.760
 points. Hopefully I don't miss any. There is no five day maximum for any discipline

00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:18.780
 for me to give out the 180 day rule. We went over that last week with Mr. Cronin explained

00:45:18.780 --> 00:45:23.620
 to you that law that's not in the contract only that's a state law. We actually have

00:45:23.620 --> 00:45:31.240
 up to 240 days to discover it, 180 to do it. So we actually have 420, which is a lot longer

00:45:31.240 --> 00:45:37.220
 than 180 that's in statute. That provision of the contract actually gives us a lot longer

00:45:37.220 --> 00:45:45.660
 time than we would if we didn't have it. We don't have any tanks. And what you can expect

00:45:45.660 --> 00:45:50.300
 to see at the protest is what you've seen at the protest thus far. You've seen police

00:45:50.300 --> 00:45:56.180
 officers out there in their regular patrol uniform walking about keeping you safe. They've

00:45:56.180 --> 00:46:02.360
 been out talking to people, having dialogue with people. They've been very approachable

00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:09.900
 to this point. We haven't had to use any riot control gear. We do have riot control gear

00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:14.260
 if we need it, but it's only going to be brought out if we need it. But there's going to be

00:46:14.260 --> 00:46:21.900
 a reason why we would bring that out. I'm trying to remember all the questions. Brady

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:27.320
 list. The Brady list is not controlled by the police department or the sheriff is controlled

00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:32.300
 by the district attorney's office. Oftentimes as a chief of police, I don't even know who's

00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:38.940
 on the Brady list and it's not out there to be displayed. That's at the discretion of

00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:43.600
 the district attorney for each county in this state. So the police department, the sheriff's

00:46:43.600 --> 00:46:55.020
 office has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Did I get all the points for all the questions?

00:46:55.020 --> 00:47:02.900
 Can I ask a question, Cheryl? What is the riot control gear if you had to use it, chief?

00:47:02.900 --> 00:47:09.900
 We have helmets for protection. We have riot control sticks and we have shield, fiberglass

00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:15.900
 shields. If we need it, we would have less lethal munitions. We would have controlled

00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:18.500
 gas, chemical munitions.

00:47:18.500 --> 00:47:29.440
 I just wanted to thank the caller for participating and I do want to just offer a point of clarification

00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:35.300
 that this is a city organized committee. So you made some very valid points about the

00:47:35.300 --> 00:47:41.940
 county and about, as chief Dixon pointed out, the district attorney. This committee does

00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:48.500
 not have any purview in those areas, but I appreciate those comments.

00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:51.980
 Yeah, that makes sense to me. It's hard to ignore the relationship of the people that

00:47:51.980 --> 00:47:54.780
 the Denton police arrest end up in Denton County Jail.

00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:55.780
 Lillian.

00:47:55.780 --> 00:48:01.340
 Yeah, I was just going to say that very thing. So she talked about the site and release.

00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:04.740
 Chief Dixon, do you have anything to say about that?

00:48:04.740 --> 00:48:08.340
 Absolutely. We went into a modified posture to the beginning of the pandemic and we're

00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:14.280
 still in it. We're not arresting for classy offenses if we can help it. We're not arresting

00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:20.780
 for low level marijuana possession as well. If there's not a mitigating circumstance around

00:48:20.780 --> 00:48:25.860
 it, we can't release someone to a responsible party. There's a violent offense associated

00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:31.820
 with it. We still have to make those arrests. We can't leave people on the street. And we're

00:48:31.820 --> 00:48:35.820
 working towards, I have been one of the biggest proponents of doing site and release since

00:48:35.820 --> 00:48:40.820
 I got here. I've talked to a number of different organizations and we're working towards that

00:48:40.820 --> 00:48:45.100
 goal. But that's not a singular goal. It's not something that I as the chief can just

00:48:45.100 --> 00:48:49.660
 summarily say we're going to do it and we go off. There's a lot of moving parts to it

00:48:49.660 --> 00:48:55.180
 and we're working for that process now. So I'm hopeful that we'll get it.

00:48:55.180 --> 00:48:58.420
 I really appreciate that response. And I do want to say that some people are slipping

00:48:58.420 --> 00:49:01.340
 through the cracks because I have recently connected with a woman that's in Denton County

00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:05.980
 Jail on a PI and she's been there for over 20 something days and she's contracted COVID

00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:11.180
 there. I called her lawyer today. I'm waiting for them to get back to me. But I'm just like,

00:49:11.180 --> 00:49:14.900
 I agree with you and I appreciate you pushing for site and release. And also that is also

00:49:14.900 --> 00:49:18.260
 true. And they were arrested by city police.

00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:33.980
 I wanted to thank Cindy for her comments and I wanted to just uplift all of the things

00:49:33.980 --> 00:49:39.960
 that she mentioned. I think one of the things that we're finding is citizens of Denton and

00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:44.820
 people that live in Denton don't know which things are county and which things are DA

00:49:44.820 --> 00:49:49.980
 and which things are DPD. And I think that that's something that we should maybe talk

00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:55.060
 about making more clear like the transparency around that so that people understand where

00:49:55.060 --> 00:49:58.700
 they're trying to report, who they're trying to report to, where they need to seek information

00:49:58.700 --> 00:50:07.700
 from. And I heard Chief Dixon mentioned that around the riot gear there's less lethal things

00:50:07.700 --> 00:50:11.300
 that you can use, but you didn't explain exactly what those were. And then after that you said

00:50:11.300 --> 00:50:18.100
 tear gas. So it's just wondering like, what is less lethal? Exactly what you're talking

00:50:18.100 --> 00:50:21.940
 about and then you mentioned tear gas. So it's whatever was right before that.

00:50:21.940 --> 00:50:29.860
 Absolutely. Less lethal munitions are munitions that are usually made out of foam or rubber

00:50:29.860 --> 00:50:38.500
 plastic that are not meant to cause serious injury, but to cause pain, pain compliance.

00:50:38.500 --> 00:50:44.920
 But we have not used anything to this point. We don't plan on using anything. I think it

00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:49.620
 speaks to the volume of our city on how we have conducted ourselves, both the police

00:50:49.620 --> 00:50:55.720
 department and those that out having their voices being heard.

00:50:55.720 --> 00:51:00.580
 And would you mind clarifying when the next police union contract will be negotiated,

00:51:00.580 --> 00:51:03.340
 the timeline?

00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:16.060
 Time in 22, 23, is it 22 or 23? I think we saw that last week, I believe it's 2022.

00:51:16.060 --> 00:51:20.940
 I just held up my finger because it's every three years. Current contract actually expires

00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:31.140
 in 2022. September 30th of 2022. And I think the city manager probably anticipates going

00:51:31.140 --> 00:51:37.080
 back to the table in the probably spring or summer of 2022.

00:51:37.080 --> 00:51:39.100
 Okay. Rhonda?

00:51:39.100 --> 00:51:47.700
 I have a question for the chief about the less lethal forms of ammunition, rubber bullets,

00:51:47.700 --> 00:51:53.100
 et cetera. Do you, Chief Dixon, have to give permission for that to be used or is that

00:51:53.100 --> 00:51:54.700
 left up to the officer?

00:51:54.700 --> 00:51:58.100
 No, that comes from me.

00:51:58.100 --> 00:52:02.060
 Thank you.

00:52:02.060 --> 00:52:28.540
 Thank you. Caller. Thank you. We have another caller. Okay. Hi. Hi. You're on. This is

00:52:28.540 --> 00:52:39.260
 Nadalia Sauceda. She, her, hers. I serve on two executive boards here in Denton that focus

00:52:39.260 --> 00:52:44.220
 work on the queer and trans community. I'm also a psychologist at UNT and a mental health

00:52:44.220 --> 00:52:52.060
 advocate. I, there has been a lot of great comments and I may have questions that show

00:52:52.060 --> 00:52:58.940
 up in my statement, so please disregard if they've already been addressed. There's been

00:52:58.940 --> 00:53:04.340
 some great comments so far. I do want to express appreciation to the committee. I see a lot

00:53:04.340 --> 00:53:11.300
 of organizations and advocates that I've worked alongside with and have appreciated the free

00:53:11.300 --> 00:53:18.820
 labor that they have done for, this is an already very taxed group of folks and I can

00:53:18.820 --> 00:53:25.100
 only imagine. I have a quick question for that. I was wondering if the committee themselves

00:53:25.100 --> 00:53:30.780
 have an opportunity to disclose their incidences as well. I agree this is very traumatic to

00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:37.780
 be telling folks their experiences if they do have incidences, but I've, I've wondered

00:53:37.780 --> 00:53:44.820
 if at any point the committee would be able to tell their, their stories as well. My main

00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:50.260
 concern though as a mental, as a mental health provider, I believe my concerns for the Denton

00:53:50.260 --> 00:53:58.420
 PD grew after the killing of Darius Tarver and I know that we're all learning in regards

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:07.540
 to policy and procedure, the role of police and local government and this has been quite

00:54:07.540 --> 00:54:13.060
 a process to, to try to understand everyone's role and everyone's part in being able to

00:54:13.060 --> 00:54:19.140
 be better and do better. I will say in my nearly 15 years of clinical training and practice

00:54:19.140 --> 00:54:25.540
 I, I, no one's ever told me why I have been encouraged to contact local police in the event

00:54:25.540 --> 00:54:35.140
 of a mental health or medical crisis or distress. I, since Darius Tarver and, and even before

00:54:35.140 --> 00:54:41.460
 I would, I would say my own clients, students and other mental health professionals have

00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:46.740
 expressed hesitancy to contact the police when they're concerned for themselves or a

00:54:46.740 --> 00:54:57.100
 loved one in regards to suicide or a, a psychotic incident. I've had my own clients reject recommendations

00:54:57.100 --> 00:55:03.580
 for hospitalization triage because of my, regardless of my current agency's protocol

00:55:03.580 --> 00:55:12.260
 for police transport. I was reasonably aware that there's plans for a mental health division

00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:19.740
 and I've, I'm, I don't know what the ad hoc committee involvement is with that or any

00:55:19.740 --> 00:55:26.820
 input from mental health professionals and, and the disability community in regards to,

00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:34.060
 to the use of force with those populations. But I, I'm, it has evoked a lot of concern

00:55:34.060 --> 00:55:40.780
 for me, the further criminalization of folks who live with mental health issues. I think

00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:49.340
 the current approach just, just confirms this disconnect with the community and it feels

00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:55.060
 very reactionary and I'm, I'm still trying to understand the overlap of my profession

00:55:55.060 --> 00:56:00.300
 with police. And I'm, I'm kind of doing my own searching on that, but still don't understand

00:56:00.300 --> 00:56:08.860
 why we must do a, create a division to detract from further community support and funding

00:56:08.860 --> 00:56:14.860
 from other institutions. I've wondered how this impacts MHMR mobile crisis unit. And

00:56:14.860 --> 00:56:19.500
 I'm wondering if the committee has, has reviewed or plans to review the Darius Harbor case

00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:26.100
 and use of force during medical and mental health distress have been my main concerns.

00:56:26.100 --> 00:56:33.660
 So that's what I wanted to say. And some of, some of the things I've been hearing from

00:56:33.660 --> 00:56:36.660
 my community.

00:56:36.660 --> 00:56:51.380
 Okay. Does anybody want to respond? Yes, Travis. Okay. So I just want to kind of add a comment

00:56:51.380 --> 00:57:00.860
 to that. So as a police officer, it, we, I'm in the community for the community, you know,

00:57:00.860 --> 00:57:07.100
 we overlooked the fact that when you are in an active situation and someone may have a

00:57:07.100 --> 00:57:12.180
 weapon or whatnot, they don't come out with a sign that says, I'm experiencing a mental

00:57:12.180 --> 00:57:18.180
 health crisis. So that's kind of a situation that you put in as an officer. You know, I

00:57:18.180 --> 00:57:22.940
 don't know that this person may be suffering some kind of crisis. I don't know that. And

00:57:22.940 --> 00:57:29.980
 the moment of the active situation as an officer, you have to address that immediate situation.

00:57:29.980 --> 00:57:36.540
 And I think a lot of times we overlook that it doesn't, it doesn't come out until after

00:57:36.540 --> 00:57:42.500
 the situation has been resolved, then we may find out, Oh, the person may have, you know,

00:57:42.500 --> 00:57:47.100
 had some kind of mental situations they were going through some kind of mental crisis.

00:57:47.100 --> 00:57:52.620
 So, you know, it's kind of a double edged sword, you know, at the same time. And a lot

00:57:52.620 --> 00:57:58.180
 of times, often the community is the one that calls the police out because someone is experiencing

00:57:58.180 --> 00:58:04.980
 some kind of crisis. So we have to also look on that side as far as, you know, what is

00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:09.740
 it that you want the police to do? How do you want the police to respond? Myself personally,

00:58:09.740 --> 00:58:16.740
 I've responded to several, several people experiencing some kind of mental crisis. And

00:58:16.740 --> 00:58:24.060
 oftentimes, MHMR has rejected to come out and help the person. And then the situation

00:58:24.060 --> 00:58:29.900
 may become more, you know, the, the person may become more agitated and the situation

00:58:29.900 --> 00:58:36.460
 may increase and you know, whatever the case is, but you know, as a police officer, I don't,

00:58:36.460 --> 00:58:39.980
 I don't know that, I don't know that this person is necessarily experiencing some kind

00:58:39.980 --> 00:58:45.820
 of crisis. So I just want everyone to, you know, consider that, you know, as we deal

00:58:45.820 --> 00:58:48.300
 with our, you know, go through our daily job functions.

00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:55.140
 So it sounds like, sounds like we need different resources other than the police. That's what

00:58:55.140 --> 00:58:56.140
 I'm hearing.

00:58:56.140 --> 00:59:00.500
 Yeah. I was, I was going to uplift that. Thank you for your comments. And Adelia, I was going

00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:06.780
 to uplift that what you're sharing, Travis, to me, when a caller is calling in and asking

00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:12.180
 about how we can better serve folks with mental health issues, knowing that police are responding

00:59:12.180 --> 00:59:17.940
 and not being able to tell if someone's in a mental health crisis or what they, how they

00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:24.440
 might need to respond is an issue that we should be addressing and maybe they need support

00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:29.180
 or maybe they might not should be the ones that are responding to some of those. I also

00:59:29.180 --> 00:59:37.700
 wanted to uplift your comments around use of force policies that we're reviewing with

00:59:37.700 --> 00:59:42.380
 folks that might have disabilities or mental health issues. The committee has questions

00:59:42.380 --> 00:59:47.500
 around how we serve those populations, but I can share with you from what I remember

00:59:47.500 --> 00:59:52.820
 and someone please correct me on the committee if I'm incorrect, that the use of force policies

00:59:52.820 --> 01:00:02.200
 that we were shown by during this committee in a presentation didn't break it down by

01:00:02.200 --> 01:00:07.620
 anything around individualized care. Like it's not broken down by what that person is experiencing.

01:00:07.620 --> 01:00:14.980
 It's just like around if an officer feels as if use of force is needed, they can utilize

01:00:14.980 --> 01:00:20.300
 it based on certain criteria. It's not broken down around mental health or people with disabilities

01:00:20.300 --> 01:00:25.520
 or age or race or anything like that as far as I can remember.

01:00:25.520 --> 01:00:30.540
 Pam? Well, and I wanted to say too, when the call

01:00:30.540 --> 01:00:36.900
 comes in, we work with the police department because I'm with the mental health and so

01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:42.060
 we work with Chief Dixon and his officers and they do know when it's the mental health

01:00:42.060 --> 01:00:48.100
 call. So unless they're called directly to the scene and they don't know that it's a

01:00:48.100 --> 01:00:54.620
 mental health call or somebody with autism. So I think that's the difference that there

01:00:54.620 --> 01:01:03.260
 may be going to a scene and we're not involved and that can happen. And many times obviously

01:01:03.260 --> 01:01:08.900
 possibly it does happen. And then they're blind when they go in. But when we go together

01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:15.780
 to the scene, they know that it's obviously a mental health situation. So it's handled

01:01:15.780 --> 01:01:18.660
 a little differently. Go ahead. Thank you, Cheryl.

01:01:18.660 --> 01:01:23.820
 Katina? Thank you so much, caller, for sharing. And

01:01:23.820 --> 01:01:31.980
 I was just thinking through some things because I think that what we don't discuss often times

01:01:31.980 --> 01:01:37.260
 is civilians and our responsibility and how we engage and how we call the police. And

01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:43.820
 I brought this issue up before because we talked, when we had the training last week,

01:01:43.820 --> 01:01:47.660
 I can't remember what the name of the training was, but where we basically did the assimilation.

01:01:47.660 --> 01:01:53.420
 Oh, the use of force. Yes. And so one of the things that I've heard

01:01:53.420 --> 01:02:00.460
 repeatedly is oftentimes there's miscommunication between the caller and the 911 person and

01:02:00.460 --> 01:02:07.740
 then what happens in dispatch. And police officers rely heavily on, I mean, they have

01:02:07.740 --> 01:02:12.740
 to rely on information being accurate. And I think that we have such a fear mongering

01:02:12.740 --> 01:02:18.620
 culture for one. People are prone to call the police on black people or anything that

01:02:18.620 --> 01:02:24.460
 they think as other. And I think that we need to increase accountability for people just

01:02:24.460 --> 01:02:29.180
 calling the police for everything because the police aren't here to protect and serve,

01:02:29.180 --> 01:02:34.340
 but they are not our personal, you know, little pocket badges that we can just whip out to

01:02:34.340 --> 01:02:41.980
 call when we are agitated or when we're angry or when the wrong person is in our neighborhood.

01:02:41.980 --> 01:02:48.620
 I think that, you know, really equipping civilians on how to call 911 and offering training across

01:02:48.620 --> 01:02:54.500
 the board, because as officer Nicholas was saying, like, they don't know sometimes and

01:02:54.500 --> 01:02:59.900
 they're going off of information that they got, and they're trying to rely on that, but

01:02:59.900 --> 01:03:04.780
 they're walking into a dangerous situation, which I can totally, potentially dangerous

01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:11.160
 situation which I can totally identify with or respect. And the thing is, is if a mental

01:03:11.160 --> 01:03:17.180
 health issue is happening, people need to be responsible to say that and to, you know,

01:03:17.180 --> 01:03:22.740
 express that. And the 911 operators need to be, you know, held accountable for sharing

01:03:22.740 --> 01:03:28.660
 that information. But civilians need to have, be responsible. If they're weaponizing the

01:03:28.660 --> 01:03:33.900
 police, if they're, you know, leaving out information, if it's based on fear mongering,

01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:37.660
 they need to be flagged, they need to be fined, and if it gets to that point, they need to

01:03:37.660 --> 01:03:43.660
 go to jail. Like, it needs to be put back on civilians who think that it's okay to weaponize

01:03:43.660 --> 01:03:46.340
 the police against other people.

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:53.060
 Right. And you're right, there is, and we know that there are certain people who are

01:03:53.060 --> 01:04:03.180
 privileged to empathy from others. And I wonder where this education and training and citizens,

01:04:03.180 --> 01:04:10.140
 you know, the ability to destigmatize mental health and everything else to help us help

01:04:10.140 --> 01:04:17.700
 each other. I don't know if that belongs under the umbrella of policing. Chief Dixon, that

01:04:17.700 --> 01:04:19.740
 would be something different.

01:04:19.740 --> 01:04:25.700
 Yeah, I want to make sure that that I'm being very clear. There's not a police officer on

01:04:25.700 --> 01:04:30.620
 this call, listening or watching that wants to be the primary responder to mental health

01:04:30.620 --> 01:04:37.220
 crisis. There's not. That's a fact. If I could stop my police officers from going to calls

01:04:37.220 --> 01:04:43.680
 with mental illness right now, I would stop it. The sad fact is there is no other option

01:04:43.680 --> 01:04:49.140
 in this moment. So the creation of this mental health unit to pair up a licensed social worker

01:04:49.140 --> 01:04:56.300
 with a police officer is by far the best option we have on the table as we sit here today.

01:04:56.300 --> 01:05:00.620
 They can go to mental health training together. The counselors are obviously going to have

01:05:00.620 --> 01:05:07.100
 more experience in dealing with mental illness than our police officers are. But my hope

01:05:07.100 --> 01:05:12.660
 and the hope of every police officer out there across this country is that we do get to the

01:05:12.660 --> 01:05:19.900
 place one day where cops are not the answer for everything. We work with fans, people

01:05:19.900 --> 01:05:26.820
 every day at MHMR, but that's not the answer. It's not always the easy answer. There's too

01:05:26.820 --> 01:05:32.500
 many options out there when police officers go out to these calls where people can decline

01:05:32.500 --> 01:05:39.260
 to come out to help the person in crisis. And then that's why the county jail ends up

01:05:39.260 --> 01:05:44.060
 being the number one mental health consumer in Dayton County. Because if it's up to the

01:05:44.060 --> 01:05:49.940
 police officer to let somebody go that's in crisis or take them to jail to keep them safe,

01:05:49.940 --> 01:05:56.140
 they're taking them to jail. That, again, is just a sad fact. Until we collectively

01:05:56.140 --> 01:06:02.940
 as a society put more emphasis on mental health treatment, bed space, facilities, we're going

01:06:02.940 --> 01:06:08.580
 to be here where we're at right now. So we've got to work together. And nobody here is against

01:06:08.580 --> 01:06:16.420
 working with whatever we have to do to make sure everyone goes home safe.

01:06:16.420 --> 01:06:18.820
 Jamie?

01:06:18.820 --> 01:06:23.620
 I just wondered if Pam, you might be willing I hate to put you on the spot, but to speak

01:06:23.620 --> 01:06:29.740
 about the situations where MHMR is called first and often relies on the police to go

01:06:29.740 --> 01:06:34.380
 into homes in situations where they might feel unsafe without support. Because I feel

01:06:34.380 --> 01:06:39.700
 like that's part of this issue that hasn't been discussed.

01:06:39.700 --> 01:06:44.180
 And I think, you know, that was part of the issue that I was sitting here thinking because

01:06:44.180 --> 01:06:49.260
 many times we can't go in without the police because we don't know the person. It's a very

01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:57.020
 unsafe situation. We don't know that if there's weapons in the home and we can't go in without

01:06:57.020 --> 01:07:03.740
 the police. So it's very difficult for us because to go in, the person is actively psychotic

01:07:03.740 --> 01:07:10.460
 or we don't know what else is, you know, what the situation will bring for our clinicians

01:07:10.460 --> 01:07:17.020
 and we have to have the police on scene. So many times, you know, Chief Dixon's police

01:07:17.020 --> 01:07:22.460
 officers, I don't know how many times have saved our staff, literally, and they have

01:07:22.460 --> 01:07:29.580
 to be on scene. And then we will call for mental health deputies. Well, there are times

01:07:29.580 --> 01:07:34.500
 that the mental health deputies don't think that the person meets the criteria for apprehension

01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:41.480
 and detention and they won't come out. So Chief Dixon's police officers are the only

01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:49.580
 people there that can help us in that situation. So that's another glitch that happens and

01:07:49.580 --> 01:07:56.940
 Chief Dixon can attest to that many times. And that person, again, as Chief Dixon said,

01:07:56.940 --> 01:08:01.540
 they can either go to jail or they can remain in the situation because they have to be either

01:08:01.540 --> 01:08:06.860
 a danger to themselves or others to meet the criteria to have their civil liberties taken

01:08:06.860 --> 01:08:14.020
 away. And the mental health professional cannot take their civil liberties away. A police

01:08:14.020 --> 01:08:19.140
 officer or mental health deputy is the only person that can do that. We are not qualified

01:08:19.140 --> 01:08:26.900
 to do that. Not in Texas, correct. Right. And other states can. Right, but not here.

01:08:26.900 --> 01:08:35.300
 There's a lot that happens before that phone call that our officers do and that don't have

01:08:35.300 --> 01:08:40.420
 to take people's rights away. And you can hear Pam mention, like, that is the length

01:08:40.420 --> 01:08:45.900
 that we have to get to. And those are extreme points, of course. And there's options way

01:08:45.900 --> 01:08:54.020
 before. So many points in that story of that person's journey that we could be funding.

01:08:54.020 --> 01:08:58.500
 So I'm still wrapping my brain around this concept and hope you all could follow me on

01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:04.620
 that same train of thinking of, like, is this the only option? What other options along

01:09:04.620 --> 01:09:10.260
 the way to be helping our community? So I appreciate y'all joining me on that line.

01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:20.060
 All right. Thank you, caller. I want to let you guys know we have people who have been

01:09:20.060 --> 01:09:24.620
 on call up to 40 minutes. So I know everybody wants to kind of jump in, but we got to kind

01:09:24.620 --> 01:09:31.580
 of move this along so everybody has an opportunity to get their call in and make their comment.

01:09:31.580 --> 01:09:46.860
 Okay. Good evening, caller. Hi there. Hi. Is this Michael? It is. Hi, Michael. You have

01:09:46.860 --> 01:09:52.140
 a comment you want to make? Yes. Yes, I do. I'm going to go quick. I want to introduce

01:09:52.140 --> 01:09:57.380
 myself. I am Michael Mutz. I'm 25 years old. I have an associate's in criminal justice,

01:09:57.380 --> 01:10:01.980
 a bachelor's in psychology and communications, and I'm currently working on a doctorate of

01:10:01.980 --> 01:10:06.620
 education. I find myself to be a little bit unique because I'm a journalist, but I'm also

01:10:06.620 --> 01:10:13.500
 a behavior therapist. I work as a behavior technician and I've also worked at two mental

01:10:13.500 --> 01:10:20.460
 hospitals in the DFW community, including Mayhill Hospital here in Denton. I'm a little

01:10:20.460 --> 01:10:23.620
 bit different than the other callers that have spoken in the sense that I do believe

01:10:23.620 --> 01:10:27.620
 that there are some issues with the police department, but I don't think defunding the

01:10:27.620 --> 01:10:32.580
 police is the option. I think that there needs to be more training and there needs to be

01:10:32.580 --> 01:10:41.820
 more education along lines of information. I'll tell you this. In the last six months,

01:10:41.820 --> 01:10:46.580
 I was assaulted by my roommate. I was punched in the face. And in order to get out of my

01:10:46.580 --> 01:10:51.540
 apartment lease, I needed a copy of the police report to send to them. It took the police

01:10:51.540 --> 01:10:58.460
 department and the records department 14 days to get back to me after I was assaulted. Now

01:10:58.460 --> 01:11:04.020
 during those 14 days, after the 14 days were over, it was 10 business days, but 14 with

01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:08.660
 the two weekends. After the end of that period, I got a letter from the city stating that

01:11:08.660 --> 01:11:13.460
 they were withholding the records because my roommate has the right to keep his information

01:11:13.460 --> 01:11:19.220
 private. And they're sending a letter to the office of the attorney general about getting

01:11:19.220 --> 01:11:23.740
 a basically determination on whether or not they can release that information to me. I

01:11:23.740 --> 01:11:27.700
 think that it's important also to note that I called the police department to get information

01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:32.500
 about the use of force before this meeting and was told to file a public information

01:11:32.500 --> 01:11:38.660
 act request to get certain information, which again would take up to 10 business days. So

01:11:38.660 --> 01:11:42.980
 I think that it's important to note that it's hard to get information. If you were to go

01:11:42.980 --> 01:11:47.100
 to the Denton training police department or the Denton police department training website

01:11:47.100 --> 01:11:51.620
 this last week that is on the website, five out of five times I tried to pull up the website,

01:11:51.620 --> 01:11:55.660
 it was down. And I have screenshots of those if you guys would like to see them later.

01:11:55.660 --> 01:12:00.540
 I think that, you know, we can talk about politics all day long, we can talk about things

01:12:00.540 --> 01:12:05.220
 that are happening across the country. But in reality, what we need is information from

01:12:05.220 --> 01:12:09.620
 the police department at the local level. And we're struggling to get that information

01:12:09.620 --> 01:12:14.180
 because it takes weeks for the records department to get back to us. And then they're trying

01:12:14.180 --> 01:12:20.340
 to exempt information. It takes having to fight and advocate for that information. I've

01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:25.140
 seen more information tonight in this meeting than I can get as a community citizen about

01:12:25.140 --> 01:12:31.060
 our police department, about the, you know, district attorney's office. I couldn't personally

01:12:31.060 --> 01:12:36.620
 file a request for a protective order because I couldn't get the police department to give

01:12:36.620 --> 01:12:41.580
 me the record that I needed in order to file that report. That is absolutely astounding.

01:12:41.580 --> 01:12:45.980
 And when we're talking about use of force, let's talk about escalations. When it takes

01:12:45.980 --> 01:12:52.460
 the police department to two hours to respond to a domestic violence call, when it takes,

01:12:52.460 --> 01:12:57.780
 you know, my roommate, I have a recording of my roommate telling me to kill myself and

01:12:57.780 --> 01:13:02.100
 the police department can't arrest him. And then, you know, you come into a situation

01:13:02.100 --> 01:13:06.540
 where there's a fight and the use of force is escalated. Well, that's happening because

01:13:06.540 --> 01:13:10.580
 we can't get information because we can't file for protective orders because they won't

01:13:10.580 --> 01:13:17.940
 release the information to us. We can't get this information to file the appropriate paperwork.

01:13:17.940 --> 01:13:22.700
 It's a catch 22. And then the police officer comes into a heightened situation because

01:13:22.700 --> 01:13:27.660
 they refuse to let us start it at the basic level. It escalates so far that it turns into

01:13:27.660 --> 01:13:33.220
 a fight. You know, and I'll say this too, the mental health side of things isn't doing

01:13:33.220 --> 01:13:41.580
 much better either. I worked at Mayhill hospital and they, there is no mental health going

01:13:41.580 --> 01:13:45.580
 on there. I filed a report with the Department of Health and Human Services against them

01:13:45.580 --> 01:13:50.820
 for abusing their patients. There was a time where I saw a patient who basically asked

01:13:50.820 --> 01:13:54.940
 water and they were told, the patient was told he couldn't have water until after dinner.

01:13:54.940 --> 01:13:57.620
 That was six hours that the patient couldn't have water.

01:13:57.620 --> 01:14:07.020
 Michael, Michael, you've gone over your four minutes. Okay. Anyone have any questions?

01:14:07.020 --> 01:14:16.620
 Yes, Katrina. I've worked in healthcare administration for about 20 years and I just want to affirm

01:14:16.620 --> 01:14:22.380
 the things that you're saying. And thank you so much for sharing everything that you shared.

01:14:22.380 --> 01:14:31.060
 It really meant a lot and I'm a healthcare advocate, and so I'm with you 100%.

01:14:31.060 --> 01:14:32.980
 Thank you. Thank you.

01:14:32.980 --> 01:14:39.660
 Camion. Yes, I wanted to say thank you so much, Michael,

01:14:39.660 --> 01:14:46.500
 for sharing this information. I am a social worker with a clinical license and I've worked

01:14:46.500 --> 01:14:52.140
 at University of Behavioral Health. So I completely understand a lot of the things that you mentioned.

01:14:52.140 --> 01:15:01.300
 I did want to say thank you so much for sharing the information around trying to get a protective

01:15:01.300 --> 01:15:07.700
 order and uplifting things that might be domestic in nature in which police are called out to

01:15:07.700 --> 01:15:15.180
 and how sometimes those situations don't always support the person that might be being harmed.

01:15:15.180 --> 01:15:32.740
 Thank you. Thank you.

01:15:32.740 --> 01:15:38.340
 Looks like Jamie has a question. Hi, Jamie.

01:15:38.340 --> 01:15:42.380
 If we've already switched to the other caller, it's not relevant, but I was going to ask

01:15:42.380 --> 01:15:47.820
 him if there was information he was seeking in his public information request that would

01:15:47.820 --> 01:15:52.020
 be relevant. We've already gone to the next caller. I'm

01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:55.820
 sorry. Hi, is Samuel?

01:15:55.820 --> 01:15:58.140
 Yes. Hi.

01:15:58.140 --> 01:16:01.940
 Hi, may I begin? Yes.

01:16:01.940 --> 01:16:09.140
 Hi, my name is Samuel Escalante. My zip code is 76209. I'm a teacher and I'm also a published

01:16:09.140 --> 01:16:14.860
 researcher on issues of race. First, I want to thank the committee for this

01:16:14.860 --> 01:16:18.820
 work and their labor. I do appreciate their time and everything they're putting into it

01:16:18.820 --> 01:16:24.380
 and the fact that these are really hard conversations. So I may bring up stuff that makes some folks

01:16:24.380 --> 01:16:29.980
 uncomfortable and this is kind of the point. So I appreciate folks being open, vulnerable

01:16:29.980 --> 01:16:34.380
 from all sides and giving us the time and consideration it needs.

01:16:34.380 --> 01:16:38.500
 Okay, but before you get started, Samuel, let me let you know you have four minutes,

01:16:38.500 --> 01:16:41.780
 right? Yes, I have a prepared statement.

01:16:41.780 --> 01:16:45.860
 So first I want to share how many residents I've talked to were scared this committee

01:16:45.860 --> 01:16:51.460
 might misuse or misinterpret people's stories. And I believe we've kind of seen a misstep

01:16:51.460 --> 01:16:54.660
 by hearing someone counter one of the caller's stories by saying that they had a positive

01:16:54.660 --> 01:16:59.540
 encounter with the NPD. And personally, I feel that the fact that this happened and

01:16:59.540 --> 01:17:04.060
 that the slight thinking could be central to how the committee uses these stories should

01:17:04.060 --> 01:17:08.420
 be kind of cause for alarm, something that the committee investigates after this. Essentially,

01:17:08.420 --> 01:17:11.740
 if members of the committee believe that it's one person's word over another, then we're

01:17:11.740 --> 01:17:16.380
 not going to see the change we need. The reason we're still in this mess is because often

01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:20.300
 people who call the shots are just going off of positive stories. But I don't think that

01:17:20.300 --> 01:17:24.620
 this committee needs stories, positive or negative, to make the change we need. I think

01:17:24.620 --> 01:17:29.220
 often calling for stories is a tactic that allows folks to be legitimized, people who

01:17:29.220 --> 01:17:32.700
 have been negatively impacted by police. So I just really hope that the committee really

01:17:32.700 --> 01:17:39.260
 carefully considers what stories really mean in this and don't use them to delegitimize

01:17:39.260 --> 01:17:44.540
 the folks who are asking for need. And then next, I asked that the committee asked themselves

01:17:44.540 --> 01:17:49.100
 these two questions anytime they consider a recommendation. The first is, does this

01:17:49.100 --> 01:17:54.380
 recommendation increase or maintain the scope, power, resources, or functions of the police?

01:17:54.380 --> 01:17:58.420
 And I think the answer should be no. And the second question is, was this recommendation

01:17:58.420 --> 01:18:04.220
 created by, for and with residents who are most impacted historically by policing? And

01:18:04.220 --> 01:18:10.380
 the answer should be less. So over the coming weeks, we're going to hear from police and

01:18:10.380 --> 01:18:15.220
 city council that they're responding to the moment. But I believe a lot of things that

01:18:15.220 --> 01:18:20.420
 are coming up missed the point of Black Lives Matter movement. For example, as the police

01:18:20.420 --> 01:18:24.580
 have taken up over a quarter of the general fund over the past 10 years, we've seen the

01:18:24.580 --> 01:18:29.580
 increase of scope of the department in the city, while a lot of folks who are marginalized

01:18:29.580 --> 01:18:34.380
 still live without the resources they need. And we've seen that, especially with the COVID

01:18:34.380 --> 01:18:39.740
 crisis. So these problems won't be solved by more policing, no matter how much more

01:18:39.740 --> 01:18:45.820
 responsive, friendly, or seemingly transparent it may be. And I think that the chief agrees.

01:18:45.820 --> 01:18:50.820
 Like he said, there should be a world where not everything is responded to by policing.

01:18:50.820 --> 01:18:54.900
 So I appreciate that. But at the end of the day, police use the tools that they have,

01:18:54.900 --> 01:19:02.260
 which are violence and arrests. So like an example is the new mental health unit. While

01:19:02.260 --> 01:19:06.280
 this is better than what we have right now, it still increases the scope of police by

01:19:06.280 --> 01:19:11.780
 bringing mental health resources under the police's control. And so while there are going

01:19:11.780 --> 01:19:15.780
 to be violent situations that call for more than just the mental health professional, just

01:19:15.780 --> 01:19:19.420
 because this is the best we can do right now, it doesn't mean that it's the only solution

01:19:19.420 --> 01:19:24.120
 we have for the future. So I agree with the chief that we need to have more services and

01:19:24.120 --> 01:19:29.540
 resources than what we currently have. And so my point is that the black guys movement

01:19:29.540 --> 01:19:33.760
 is way more than simply reviewing these policies and asking the city and police to tighten

01:19:33.760 --> 01:19:40.220
 them up. This movement is about bringing power to people and paving a future in which all

01:19:40.220 --> 01:19:47.420
 people's needs are met. And currently we don't meet those. And a budget is a city small document.

01:19:47.420 --> 01:19:51.020
 And essentially our budget tells that night that we don't care necessarily about the most

01:19:51.020 --> 01:19:54.900
 in need and would rather use police for most of these problems. And additionally, we even

01:19:54.900 --> 01:20:00.180
 approved a $60 million bond last year and millions more for the gun range. And so while

01:20:00.180 --> 01:20:04.020
 your work on the committee is not directly tied to funding, I believe that the work you're

01:20:04.020 --> 01:20:08.380
 doing here with regard to use of force is one of many parallel steps, 20 months more

01:20:08.380 --> 01:20:15.060
 just a future for Denton. So it can only not only achieve the goals that you've set out

01:20:15.060 --> 01:20:18.780
 to achieve, but also enable more of the demands of the black eyes matter movement to come

01:20:18.780 --> 01:20:25.460
 to fruition. So I hope that you will recommend a community oversight board and any other recommendations

01:20:25.460 --> 01:20:29.900
 that decrease the scope of policing in Denton and empower those who have gone underserved

01:20:29.900 --> 01:20:34.100
 by local governments for too long. The people need to know that your recommendations will

01:20:34.100 --> 01:20:38.860
 make it undesirable for any police officer to even come near a violation of use of force.

01:20:38.860 --> 01:20:43.260
 If we don't strengthen the mechanisms for accountability and give the power to the people,

01:20:43.260 --> 01:20:48.860
 we will maintain the status quo. We're asking for healing and justice. We're asking more

01:20:48.860 --> 01:20:52.860
 than lift service. So I hope you take seriously if things like you are, and I know that these

01:20:52.860 --> 01:20:57.580
 are going to be a really difficult conversation. So thank you for the work you're doing, but

01:20:57.580 --> 01:21:01.380
 we can't just maintain the status quo. We can't just do things like what we've done.

01:21:01.380 --> 01:21:06.020
 Reform is only the goal. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

01:21:14.260 --> 01:21:18.840
 We should probably give the callers like a 20 second heads up so they can wrap up their

01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:30.780
 statements. That's fine. Hello. Hi, Jennifer. Hi, Cheryl. My name is Janay to give my name

01:21:30.780 --> 01:21:40.780
 and all that. Yes. Okay. Yes. Jennifer Lane, Denton, Texas 76205. Okay. Yeah. I've been

01:21:40.780 --> 01:21:46.780
 following as much as I can while attending another event, but I wanted to just sort of

01:21:46.780 --> 01:21:54.460
 point out that I'm 65 years old white woman, grown up in the suburbs in Denton for 13 years.

01:21:54.460 --> 01:22:05.820
 And I don't have the feeling towards seeing police cars that probably most of my demographics

01:22:05.820 --> 01:22:10.340
 is writing to you about. I don't like seeing them. I don't feel comfortable seeing them.

01:22:10.340 --> 01:22:17.700
 I've had lots of experiences, both plus and minus with police, very good experiences,

01:22:17.700 --> 01:22:24.300
 particularly in organizing protests and events like this. And also when I was least comfortable,

01:22:24.300 --> 01:22:30.540
 I chose to move toward the police in terms of serving on a faculty committee that was

01:22:30.540 --> 01:22:35.200
 involved with the police. This was when I was a cyclist and had had some bad experiences

01:22:35.200 --> 01:22:43.100
 with the police along with other cyclists at UNT, nothing truly terrible, but enough.

01:22:43.100 --> 01:22:52.420
 And what I also have experienced is uncomfortable experiences as I've gotten involved with Denton

01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:58.540
 politics, particularly involving the police union. And whereas I'm a union member myself,

01:22:58.540 --> 01:23:06.900
 and I have been for over 40 years, I really respect them and believe in unions. And I'm

01:23:06.900 --> 01:23:14.220
 sad to see that they have declined because they are very good gathering agents for races

01:23:14.220 --> 01:23:18.660
 that have a lot in common and enable people to collect a bargain and all sorts of other

01:23:18.660 --> 01:23:27.860
 important steps. I have found myself to be disturbed by the police union before recent

01:23:27.860 --> 01:23:37.140
 events actually, that there's a kind of a stirring up of political behavior on the part

01:23:37.140 --> 01:23:42.340
 of, and I see this not just with the police union, I've seen it with other agencies related

01:23:42.340 --> 01:23:53.260
 to utilities and other functions, with a city where sort of surrogates for them will create

01:23:53.260 --> 01:23:59.380
 drama and stir up the public. And for the first time recently, I spoke out about it

01:23:59.380 --> 01:24:05.220
 because it was in regards to the formation of this very committee that the union stirred

01:24:05.220 --> 01:24:13.140
 up a great deal of commentary under the idea that just because people were discussing defunding

01:24:13.140 --> 01:24:17.980
 the police, that somehow this meant that this committee was, you know, the mayor has created

01:24:17.980 --> 01:24:22.940
 it and yet and so on and so on. And so I went on to the page and I said, you know, if this

01:24:22.940 --> 01:24:28.220
 was just a random individual kind of stirring up a mess, I could sort of ignore it, but

01:24:28.220 --> 01:24:33.860
 this is the police union. And the reason I responded to it as I did was because a couple

01:24:33.860 --> 01:24:38.420
 of years ago when one of the city council members was looking to sort of trade off one

01:24:38.420 --> 01:24:45.220
 expense for one race and, you know, some sort of tinkering just with the finances of compensation,

01:24:45.220 --> 01:24:54.900
 the same sort of crazy stirring up of supporters took place. And it was really in the public's

01:24:54.900 --> 01:25:02.980
 disinterest to have had that happen. And then, so I wanted to bring that out, that as a union

01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:07.460
 member, and particularly in recent years, I'm not a performing artist, so the unions

01:25:07.460 --> 01:25:13.500
 that have represented the orchestras that have been treated so badly in opera companies,

01:25:13.500 --> 01:25:20.160
 so badly in recent years by their 30 seconds, Jennifer, that, you know, I have seen how

01:25:20.160 --> 01:25:26.960
 the unions have reached out to the wider public to, to get Garner support, but to do it in

01:25:26.960 --> 01:25:32.620
 a softer manner to, I'd like to see that what's going on here and what people are trying to

01:25:32.620 --> 01:25:39.620
 express is taken seriously and that the police themselves ask their unions are quiet down

01:25:39.620 --> 01:25:47.100
 and not react to every step that's made by the public to, to associate a new relationship

01:25:47.100 --> 01:25:48.100
 with police.

01:25:48.100 --> 01:25:50.100
 >> Thank you, Jennifer. Your time is up, Jennifer.

01:25:50.100 --> 01:25:51.100
 >> Okay.

01:25:51.100 --> 01:26:04.620
 >> Does anyone have any questions for Jennifer? Yancy? Oh, okay. Thank you, Jennifer.

01:26:04.620 --> 01:26:13.100
 >> Thank you.

01:26:13.100 --> 01:26:14.340
 >> We have another caller coming in.

01:26:14.340 --> 01:26:15.340
 >> Yes, hello?

01:26:15.340 --> 01:26:16.340
 >> Hi, Sam?

01:26:16.340 --> 01:26:23.020
 >> Yeah, this is Sam. How are you doing? Good. You have four minutes.

01:26:23.020 --> 01:26:32.340
 >> Okay. Yeah, thank you. Remind on this committee, my name is Sam Alphonse. As far as Denton

01:26:32.340 --> 01:26:40.340
 Police Department, I don't have a good experience with them. I've been racially profiled. I

01:26:40.340 --> 01:26:50.060
 had my car stolen and my dump truck stolen in Denton. I had been attacked in Denton.

01:26:50.060 --> 01:26:56.560
 And like I said, I don't have a whole lot of good things to say. I mean, it's, to get

01:26:56.560 --> 01:27:02.540
 their police report in Denton is very hard, you know, and to get them to investigate anything

01:27:02.540 --> 01:27:07.900
 is almost next to impossible. And the thing that happened there is tarvers never happened

01:27:07.900 --> 01:27:16.980
 again. The people of Denton had to pressure the mayor and the police chief to release the

01:27:16.980 --> 01:27:22.460
 tape. It wasn't until public pressure that they released the tape. The committee is a

01:27:22.460 --> 01:27:28.220
 good idea, but the committees should be independent from the police department because you cannot

01:27:28.220 --> 01:27:36.820
 have a committee that you have the chief and the mayor as a committee to go after the police

01:27:36.820 --> 01:27:43.780
 misconduct. And the police officer that murdered that boy was back on the force the next day.

01:27:43.780 --> 01:27:47.740
 That should never happen. And most other states that would not have happened, they would have

01:27:47.740 --> 01:27:56.300
 been suspended with pay. The people of Denton and other states United States always have

01:27:56.300 --> 01:28:05.740
 and have issues with police misconduct because a lot of police do take advantage of the point

01:28:05.740 --> 01:28:10.220
 that they have immunity when they break the laws and write the laws. I had a friend of

01:28:10.220 --> 01:28:17.980
 mine recently this month got a guy trying to rape in our apartment in Denton and they

01:28:17.980 --> 01:28:23.100
 did the bare minimum. And she's still currently trying to fight to get a police report. You

01:28:23.100 --> 01:28:27.100
 know, I've known other individuals with the women that violent crimes has happened to

01:28:27.100 --> 01:28:35.300
 them in Denton and the police have been very reluctant to help them. So I mean, you don't

01:28:35.300 --> 01:28:40.420
 want to get oversight, the committee would have to be independent on the police department

01:28:40.420 --> 01:28:46.700
 and have other experts to help. But to have the chief and the mayor and those same people

01:28:46.700 --> 01:28:50.900
 that try to stop the tape from a tarver, I don't see how there's going to be any progress

01:28:50.900 --> 01:28:56.860
 in that matter. It's going to be very extremely difficult. You know, and it needs to stop.

01:28:56.860 --> 01:29:02.180
 It's no way safe for any citizen or even a college student to be on campus that to worry

01:29:02.180 --> 01:29:09.900
 about them being attacked or abused by police. We have cases of that now in Denton. Students,

01:29:09.900 --> 01:29:17.900
 our future have to worry about their safety or being attacked or even murdered to try

01:29:17.900 --> 01:29:23.580
 to go to school to get the edge case to do better. I mean, it's it's sickening and it's

01:29:23.580 --> 01:29:26.660
 kind of frightening. You got to tell your kids, you know, you got to go to college now,

01:29:26.660 --> 01:29:30.180
 but you also got to watch police and capital cities because, you know, bad things can happen

01:29:30.180 --> 01:29:39.740
 to you. This is what we have to tell our kids. You know, it's very sad and it's very heartbreaking,

01:29:39.740 --> 01:29:45.760
 you know, and Denton needs to have a better mental health for the people that's mental

01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:48.840
 health. They need to work together with the police department because it's like Chief

01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:52.700
 Dixon did say they're not social workers, but they need to be a better way to communicate

01:29:52.700 --> 01:29:56.100
 with the police and management when they go out on the call because they don't know what

01:29:56.100 --> 01:30:00.040
 they're getting. But as soon as they identify the person, they should be able to have somebody

01:30:00.040 --> 01:30:04.220
 from the MSU to get somebody from the police to volunteer or whatever. And then that way

01:30:04.220 --> 01:30:08.340
 it won't cost the city a dime. That way they know what it was dealing with. And that would

01:30:08.340 --> 01:30:12.020
 stop a lot of the excessive force and they know how to keep the mental health people

01:30:12.020 --> 01:30:17.020
 a little different from the regular people. Okay. You have 18 seconds, Sam. They might

01:30:17.020 --> 01:30:23.820
 not be on their meds and I don't care. That's it. Okay. Thank you. Did anyone have any questions

01:30:23.820 --> 01:30:32.580
 for Sam? Yes, Kamya. Sam, thank you for your comments. You mentioned that you had things

01:30:32.580 --> 01:30:41.160
 stolen and had been attacked and or threatened. Were those by DPD or were those cases in which

01:30:41.160 --> 01:30:47.260
 you were trying to find police reports? Well, cases I've been trying to find police reports

01:30:47.260 --> 01:30:55.260
 and being stolen. You know, and the identity that that's on file, my dump trailer stolen

01:30:55.260 --> 01:31:02.060
 and my cars got stolen while I was at work at the time. And I was profiled. I was, I'm

01:31:02.060 --> 01:31:07.780
 a black business owner. I'm disabled legally blind. It happened last year, January. So

01:31:07.780 --> 01:31:15.780
 like I said, I've had negative experiences. I mean, not very helpful, you know. Okay.

01:31:15.780 --> 01:31:21.740
 Thank you so much. I just wanted to clarify that. I think Lilian might have had a question.

01:31:21.740 --> 01:31:27.140
 I was just going to say, Mr. Sam, you mentioned that there were some women that, you know,

01:31:27.140 --> 01:31:31.940
 they didn't get the support or the help that, you know, that they might have needed. I mean,

01:31:31.940 --> 01:31:36.300
 I know, I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, put a plug in, but I know that there's several

01:31:36.300 --> 01:31:40.540
 of us that would be willing to be advocates for them if any of them are willing to talk

01:31:40.540 --> 01:31:43.820
 to any of us and see if there's something that they can know. I think the hardest thing

01:31:43.820 --> 01:31:47.560
 is trying to bridge the gap between, you know, the people that sit on this committee and

01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:51.100
 the people out there in the community. But if you, if you know who they are and they

01:31:51.100 --> 01:31:57.220
 would be willing to share, you know, my name is right on the screen, you know, let me know.

01:31:57.220 --> 01:32:04.500
 What's your name again, man? Lilian Prado Carrillo. Okay. Okay. Yeah, just, you know,

01:32:04.500 --> 01:32:08.180
 we want to, we want to bridge that gap for whatever reason. And so if we can serve. Yeah,

01:32:08.180 --> 01:32:12.420
 this needs to stop. I mean, everything from carjacking, I mean, and they couldn't give

01:32:12.420 --> 01:32:18.700
 help and friends and family, you hear me? That's not bad to God. So like you said, that

01:32:18.700 --> 01:32:22.220
 gap is very hard to bridge because people are kind of like reluctant to trust them.

01:32:22.220 --> 01:32:26.620
 And especially if they've been to a situation that is traumatic, you know, and they're going

01:32:26.620 --> 01:32:34.340
 for people to help and you can't get no help. Katina. Oh, okay. All right. Well, thank you

01:32:34.340 --> 01:33:00.180
 for calling. No problem. Hi, caller. Is this Jane? Yes. Hi, Jane. Hi, I'm Jane Piperlant.

01:33:00.180 --> 01:33:04.980
 I live at 1205, North Austin. I wanted to address some things I've heard tonight and

01:33:04.980 --> 01:33:09.580
 maybe get some suggestions. And I do have a couple of questions that they can be asked

01:33:09.580 --> 01:33:18.280
 after three. Um, I first want to say, I appreciate the way Chief Gibson handled the, um, protests

01:33:18.280 --> 01:33:22.780
 that he sent to the police by the businesses to protect the businesses rather than trying

01:33:22.780 --> 01:33:28.920
 to intimidate or control the protesters. I am curious who called out the troopers the

01:33:28.920 --> 01:33:35.200
 first night. Um, I do appreciate when they followed the protesters back in a few nights

01:33:35.200 --> 01:33:42.560
 later that he told them to go away. Um, but I think he's done a great job on that. Um,

01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:50.520
 the officer that said that MHMR has refused to come out on calls, that may be possible.

01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:57.340
 My experience with MHMR is that they go above and beyond anything I ask. And even when it's

01:33:57.340 --> 01:34:05.300
 unreasonable things, they respond. Um, um, one of the problems I have found since somebody

01:34:05.300 --> 01:34:10.460
 talked about training citizens on how to make calls, there was a time when you could call

01:34:10.460 --> 01:34:15.780
 the non-emergency number and get an officer, you know, I mean, the dispatcher might say,

01:34:15.780 --> 01:34:20.900
 what's this about? So she knew who to channel it to, but it's almost impossible to get past

01:34:20.900 --> 01:34:26.740
 the dispatcher nowadays. And my attitude is if I wanted to talk to you, I would call 911.

01:34:26.740 --> 01:34:31.740
 I want to talk to an officer because I want to discuss this situation. I want to know

01:34:31.740 --> 01:34:37.500
 how to respond, you know, what would happen in this situation, how they would respond,

01:34:37.500 --> 01:34:44.820
 you know, is this worth a police call? And, um, you know, so I think having a non-emergency

01:34:44.820 --> 01:34:51.260
 officer on duty all the time to be able to talk to people, to discern, you know, what,

01:34:51.260 --> 01:34:58.700
 you know, if it's not a police situation, be able to refer them to, you know, a nonprofit

01:34:58.700 --> 01:35:05.300
 or whoever they need to talk to. And, um, because I mean, like one time I called because

01:35:05.300 --> 01:35:13.780
 I saw a homeless man asleep. Okay. And it was cold. And, uh, I wanted to know, you know,

01:35:13.780 --> 01:35:18.420
 I wanted the welfare check on the guy, but I wanted to know that if he wasn't causing

01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:24.340
 trouble or intoxicated or something that they would offer him a ride to the shelter, well,

01:35:24.340 --> 01:35:29.100
 the dispatcher goes, well, we're not a taxi service. And so I'm trying to get past her

01:35:29.100 --> 01:35:35.180
 to an officer and he mimics that exact same line. So, you know, there was talking going

01:35:35.180 --> 01:35:42.260
 on there and really, I think some of your dispatchers are a little bit pushy. So, but,

01:35:42.260 --> 01:35:46.620
 but I think the non-emergency number and people knowing that that exists, that they can talk

01:35:46.620 --> 01:35:55.700
 to an officer, uh, would be a, a great, great resource. Um, also, I know that during the,

01:35:55.700 --> 01:36:01.160
 when we got COVID money, that a couple of nonprofits said that they wanted an after

01:36:01.160 --> 01:36:07.340
 hour image in our counselor. Um, do we know if that money has gotten used for that or

01:36:07.340 --> 01:36:13.360
 if anybody has applied for that? Um, I, I know that there's people on that committee

01:36:13.360 --> 01:36:21.680
 who were all for that. And I think an after hour counselor would be, um, a good thing

01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:29.660
 to have that can be called, you know, by people who, who maybe don't want the police involved,

01:36:29.660 --> 01:36:35.300
 but do you need somebody to respond? Okay, Jane, you have about 30 seconds left. I'm

01:36:35.300 --> 01:36:43.960
 done. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Jane? I'd like to address the officer

01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:51.260
 on the non-emergency line if we have a minute. Yes. So, Jane, when the COVID pandemic started

01:36:51.260 --> 01:36:55.600
 up, we started a full time teleserve officer position. We have two officers, at least two

01:36:55.600 --> 01:37:00.640
 officers in there 24 hours a day. They do nothing but take reports over the phone. So

01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:06.320
 you do get a live police officer now. All you have to do is ask for the teleserve officer

01:37:06.320 --> 01:37:12.700
 and they'll transfer you to them. If you don't get them directly. What's it called? Teleserve.

01:37:12.700 --> 01:37:23.480
 Teleserve. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Also, I wanted to ask you who called the troopers

01:37:23.480 --> 01:37:32.320
 out that first night. So the troopers were taking care of I-35? Their state agencies?

01:37:32.320 --> 01:37:39.320
 No, no, no. The first night of the protest, the ones that lined up and kind of shoved

01:37:39.320 --> 01:37:46.240
 everybody down, down Hickory Street. Yeah, I was going to finish what I was saying. They

01:37:46.240 --> 01:37:51.440
 were working. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. They're, they're working on I-35. And when we went

01:37:51.440 --> 01:37:56.580
 down to the square to close it down, they came down there behind us. So they weren't,

01:37:56.580 --> 01:38:00.000
 the majority of people down on the square that night were didn't police officers. There

01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:06.400
 was probably, I don't know, five or six troopers that were down there. You're talking about

01:38:06.400 --> 01:38:15.880
 the very first night? Yes. There were more than six troopers out there. They did what's

01:38:15.880 --> 01:38:20.440
 it called the box formation or something like that? I'm hearing from Chief Smith, there

01:38:20.440 --> 01:38:27.800
 was probably 10, 10 or 15. Yeah, there were a bunch. So who called them? Oh, so they just,

01:38:27.800 --> 01:38:32.680
 so you didn't ask for them? They showed up? Yeah, they were here helping us on I-35. They

01:38:32.680 --> 01:38:40.640
 just came down to the square to help us on the square. Okay. Well, I'm glad you didn't

01:38:40.640 --> 01:38:47.800
 have them after that because that was a problem. And I, but I, I, I liked the way you handled,

01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:57.360
 the rest of it. Anybody else? I would like to. Sarah Keitler, do you know if anybody

01:38:57.360 --> 01:39:05.480
 applied for an after hours MHMR counselor? If you're referring to the CDBG CV funds,

01:39:05.480 --> 01:39:10.320
 those are still unprogrammed at this time. So we'll be seeking further direction from

01:39:10.320 --> 01:39:17.360
 council in terms of how to use those funds. Well, I would encourage this committee to,

01:39:17.360 --> 01:39:26.000
 to recommend that. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. Anybody else? Yeah, I had a follow

01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:36.000
 up question to your question. Is it Jane? For Chief Dixon, I, I guess I'm wondering

01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:45.360
 when does DPD decide when to call those troops in? Like how did you, I heard you said you

01:39:45.360 --> 01:39:49.940
 needed them on I-35, but you didn't necessarily need them at the square. So was it because

01:39:49.940 --> 01:39:53.600
 people are on the freeway or like, how do you all decide when that happens? Cause I

01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:59.640
 think that's kind of what the caller is getting at. Like why were they here and what precipitated

01:39:59.640 --> 01:40:05.760
 that? Well, we're always planning for the worst, right? We've only got X number of police

01:40:05.760 --> 01:40:10.600
 officers working in the city at any one time. We've only got a certain number of allocated

01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:14.600
 positions that we can have out there. So we're going to need support from all of our partner

01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:19.040
 agencies. They came out to assist us. We're very thankful for that. They worked very well

01:40:19.040 --> 01:40:25.000
 with us. We didn't have any problems associated with them. We had the one communication gap

01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:30.560
 on the one night that we're talking about. And that's about it. So we're always going

01:40:30.560 --> 01:40:35.480
 to be planning ahead. When we're in the moment, it's too late to start trying to plan for

01:40:35.480 --> 01:40:40.120
 any contingencies. So we're going to continue to just keep everybody safe and allow people

01:40:40.120 --> 01:40:46.000
 to have their voices heard. Chief Dixon, I think we're talking about two different nights.

01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:55.480
 Okay. The very first night of the, of the protest, there are about 10 30, a huge group

01:40:55.480 --> 01:41:01.480
 of troopers came out and made a box formation and pushed people down Hickory street. There

01:41:01.480 --> 01:41:07.160
 was the night they had the caravan and the troopers followed them in and you told them

01:41:07.160 --> 01:41:13.240
 to go away. Right. So I'm talking, I'm talking about the very first night. Yeah, I'm clear.

01:41:13.240 --> 01:41:27.480
 They started out the same place. Okay. Okay. All right. Anybody else? Thank you, caller.

01:41:27.480 --> 01:41:52.040
 Thank you. Tristan. Okay. Hi, Tristan. Yes. Hi. Thanks for calling in. You have four minutes

01:41:52.040 --> 01:41:57.040
 and then I'll, and then if the committee has questions afterwards and they'll ask you questions

01:41:57.040 --> 01:42:03.520
 and I'll try to notify you in the last 30 seconds. Okay. And then start now or when does it start?

01:42:03.520 --> 01:42:10.600
 Starts right now. Okay. Hello. My name is Tristan cycle. My address is 601 Eagle drive

01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:16.040
 apartment 101 and I'm an organizer for several local reform organizations, including the

01:42:16.040 --> 01:42:21.080
 university of our Texas students, responsible drug policy and decriminalize sentence. Today

01:42:21.080 --> 01:42:26.160
 I'm calling about the ad hoc committee and its role in Vincent policing. I am most concerned

01:42:26.160 --> 01:42:31.160
 about the lack of discussion in city and county government on the need for scaling back police

01:42:31.160 --> 01:42:37.440
 priorities, especially regarding nonviolent offenses such as drug use, sex work, and other

01:42:37.440 --> 01:42:42.160
 crimes that are disproportionately enforced against communities most impacted by policing

01:42:42.160 --> 01:42:47.280
 in Denton. People in the city and county of Denton are still being arrested and incarcerated

01:42:47.280 --> 01:42:52.120
 for a wide list of nonviolent misdemeanor and felony crimes, including acts of survival,

01:42:52.120 --> 01:42:57.760
 such as drug use and trade as well as sex work right now, the increased risk for COVID-19

01:42:57.760 --> 01:43:03.200
 exposure and the Denton County jail makes nonviolent offenses, a potential death sentence.

01:43:03.200 --> 01:43:08.080
 There are 37 people in Denton County jail that tested positive for COVID-19 and seven

01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:12.520
 prison guards have contracted it too. So ending the arrest and incarceration of nonviolent

01:43:12.520 --> 01:43:18.080
 offenders would significantly help prevent community spread for the pandemic. Also, we

01:43:18.080 --> 01:43:22.960
 must acknowledge how nonviolent crimes are often used to justify the unwarranted death

01:43:22.960 --> 01:43:28.800
 of people at the hands of police. For instance, the use of force against the former UNT student

01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:34.600
 Darius Tarver was immorally justified by police to the implication that they initially thought

01:43:34.600 --> 01:43:39.040
 he could have been on a substance like PCC, which insinuates that our police do not think

01:43:39.040 --> 01:43:43.600
 that people experiencing a drug induced crisis are worthy of life. And that is just very

01:43:43.600 --> 01:43:48.840
 disturbing and dehumanizing trends that we must stand adamantly against. I would like

01:43:48.840 --> 01:43:54.440
 to see a moratorium on all nonviolent offenses and in an empowered as well as community focused

01:43:54.440 --> 01:43:59.340
 ad hoc committee that is able to adequately address concerns over wrongful use of force

01:43:59.340 --> 01:44:04.120
 in our local law enforcement organization. Additionally, the city needs to invest in creating

01:44:04.120 --> 01:44:08.560
 a separate hotline and service for people experiencing mental health or drug induced

01:44:08.560 --> 01:44:13.720
 crises, so that police no longer respond to those calls and instead of letting priceless

01:44:13.720 --> 01:44:18.800
 workers be responsible for diffusing those emergencies. Historically, reform hasn't prevented

01:44:18.800 --> 01:44:23.960
 or reduced harm to communities, so we must demand solutions to best police resources

01:44:23.960 --> 01:44:28.240
 and to supporting the community, not the type that further empowers and militarizes police

01:44:28.240 --> 01:44:33.560
 resources. Thank you all for listening. I yield my time.

01:44:33.560 --> 01:44:40.880
 Thank you. I have a question. Just for clarification, did you say that you didn't think that, or

01:44:40.880 --> 01:44:45.800
 maybe I didn't hear it wrong, there should be an arrest or some type of force when someone's

01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:46.800
 on PCP?

01:44:46.800 --> 01:44:51.600
 What we're saying is that there should not be a police called out for that. What I'm

01:44:51.600 --> 01:44:55.520
 suggesting is that rather there should be a separate hotline or service that the city

01:44:55.520 --> 01:44:59.840
 hopefully would provide that would have crisis workers who are not affiliated with the police

01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:04.960
 answer and respond to those calls.

01:45:04.960 --> 01:45:05.960
 On PCP?

01:45:05.960 --> 01:45:09.840
 On any illegal substance, yes. It doesn't matter the type of illegal substance, whether

01:45:09.840 --> 01:45:15.960
 it's alcohol or even if it's a legal substance, unless they're in the act of committing another

01:45:15.960 --> 01:45:18.880
 crime, that's a different story. If you're in the middle of robbing, it doesn't matter

01:45:18.880 --> 01:45:23.040
 what you're doing. If you're robbing, that's obviously an issue of law enforcement.

01:45:23.040 --> 01:45:33.400
 Go ahead. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever experienced somebody on PCP?

01:45:33.400 --> 01:45:36.520
 I've seen people in drug induced crises, if that's what you're asking, yes.

01:45:36.520 --> 01:45:41.960
 No. The reason I'm saying that is because I've experienced somebody who broke into my

01:45:41.960 --> 01:45:51.240
 home on PCP. It took nine police officers and paramedics to get him under control. That's

01:45:51.240 --> 01:45:59.600
 after he was shot twice. Let me understand what you're saying. That's very dear to me

01:45:59.600 --> 01:46:01.560
 because he tried to kill us.

01:46:01.560 --> 01:46:07.040
 Yeah, I understand that. To me, in that instance, it is the breaking and entering. It is the

01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:12.320
 violence that he risked opposing to you guys. That is what should be the crime in that issue.

01:46:12.320 --> 01:46:16.040
 The fact that they're on PCP, they could have been high on any drug. They could have been

01:46:16.040 --> 01:46:19.280
 not high on a drug. They just had a mental health crisis. If they're committing another

01:46:19.280 --> 01:46:25.800
 crime and a commissioning of a crime, that crime has to be investigated and prosecuted

01:46:25.800 --> 01:46:31.200
 to the fullest extent. What I'm talking about is other people calling who are not committing

01:46:31.200 --> 01:46:36.360
 any other crime outside of just having a mental health or drug induced crisis. Obviously there'd

01:46:36.360 --> 01:46:42.320
 be caveats and it's not a black and white issue, of course. What I'm saying is that

01:46:42.320 --> 01:46:46.080
 there needs to be alternative solutions to calling the police because too many times

01:46:46.080 --> 01:46:50.260
 somebody calls the police out of concern over a loved one or someone who's either on drugs

01:46:50.260 --> 01:46:55.080
 or is having a mental health crisis and the response is simply to shoot to kill. I'm sorry,

01:46:55.080 --> 01:46:58.960
 but I do not think that that in and of itself is an appropriate response to any and all

01:46:58.960 --> 01:47:04.880
 situations involving a drug induced crisis. Obviously there will be bad situations where

01:47:04.880 --> 01:47:08.440
 someone's committing another violent crime and the interest in preventing violent crime,

01:47:08.440 --> 01:47:12.680
 we must do everything possible to prevent that when it actually happens. But we don't

01:47:12.680 --> 01:47:16.080
 need to generalize and lump up every instance where someone's having a drug induced crisis

01:47:16.080 --> 01:47:20.880
 and mental health crisis and think that and assume that they're automatically commissioning

01:47:20.880 --> 01:47:25.440
 another crime. In fact, people with mental health issues are more likely to be victimized

01:47:25.440 --> 01:47:31.400
 violently by other people than the other way around. When it comes to drug use as well,

01:47:31.400 --> 01:47:36.640
 these are people that have, when it's a problematic drug use or drug induced crisis, this is often

01:47:36.640 --> 01:47:40.720
 a reflection of people not having a safe space to use drugs. It's also people not having

01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:45.920
 good information about how to use drugs safely. And so because society has rejected them,

01:47:45.920 --> 01:47:51.280
 they turn to more dangerous and more uncontrollable forms of use. And so that causes more problems

01:47:51.280 --> 01:47:57.080
 for both people who use drugs and it caused problems for people who don't do drugs, right?

01:47:57.080 --> 01:48:00.400
 And people just minding their own business and then having to deal with that. I would

01:48:00.400 --> 01:48:04.920
 call, I would say that that is the result of poverty, a lack of education and the war

01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:13.920
 on drugs and, you know, prohibitionist policies. Jamie. I feel like my question was answered.

01:48:13.920 --> 01:48:18.560
 I was trying to, or maybe not, I don't know, I'll ask the caller. I was trying to clarify

01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:24.720
 if you think that the policy should be the same across the board for all drug users,

01:48:24.720 --> 01:48:31.520
 or if you agree with the prior callers this evening that have made distinctions between

01:48:31.520 --> 01:48:38.220
 low level offenses and more illicit drugs. Well, the problem with the low level and the

01:48:38.220 --> 01:48:42.680
 non, when we do those kinds of arbitrary separations, like I don't, I'm sure most people don't

01:48:42.680 --> 01:48:46.880
 realize that cannabis concentrates in the, in the state of Texas is an automatic state

01:48:46.880 --> 01:48:51.920
 jail felony. Even though in other states, those particular forms of cannabis are proven

01:48:51.920 --> 01:48:56.440
 to be remarkably helpful for people dealing with debilitating disorders like post-traumatic

01:48:56.440 --> 01:49:02.520
 stress disorder, other eating and, you know, physical and mental disorders. So, but here

01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:06.720
 is an automatic felony. So if we just have that, well, is it a misdemeanor or is it not

01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:11.040
 a misdemeanor? And keep in mind, if you're found with any drug outside of flour, cannabis

01:49:11.040 --> 01:49:15.680
 or alcohol, you're automatically given a state jail felony because it's a special penalty

01:49:15.680 --> 01:49:20.600
 group. So, I mean, that covers everything from drugs like LSD, psilocybin, mushrooms,

01:49:20.600 --> 01:49:25.920
 which are considered to be some of the safest, least toxic drugs out there, but that obviously

01:49:25.920 --> 01:49:30.020
 doesn't include things like alcohol, which is considered to be one of the more dangerous

01:49:30.020 --> 01:49:35.920
 or detrimental substances in our community. Right? So, yeah, I would say that, you know,

01:49:35.920 --> 01:49:39.820
 that distinction, I understand. And I definitely think that, you know, focusing maybe first

01:49:39.820 --> 01:49:47.000
 on cannabis and other, you know, crimes like that would be ideal. I definitely with decriminalized

01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:51.480
 incident, we definitely advocate that we first and foremost decriminalized cannabis use and

01:49:51.480 --> 01:49:56.720
 decriminalized all misdemeanor offenses for that, including the state jail felony that

01:49:56.720 --> 01:50:02.120
 comes with having any personal amount of cannabis concentrate. And the design of all of that

01:50:02.120 --> 01:50:08.080
 is just to focus on non-commercial use. Right? So it's all about personal use. It's personal

01:50:08.080 --> 01:50:11.800
 use of any of these things. But personally, I would argue to this committee that we really

01:50:11.800 --> 01:50:17.240
 need to be considering like any personal amount of drug use, you know, that should be decriminalized

01:50:17.240 --> 01:50:21.280
 or at the very least, we should reduce the priority for enforcing that because at the

01:50:21.280 --> 01:50:27.640
 end of the day, like, you know, not only do we have the, there's a lot of, I think it's

01:50:27.640 --> 01:50:31.240
 a rights issue, of course, too, you know, but I think that what we need to be focusing

01:50:31.240 --> 01:50:35.440
 on is the relationship people have with drugs and not necessarily the drug itself. You can

01:50:35.440 --> 01:50:39.320
 have a problematic relationship with sugar. Sugar is a drug, and that's something a lot

01:50:39.320 --> 01:50:43.520
 of people don't recognize, but that can manifest some very serious diseases. Same thing with

01:50:43.520 --> 01:50:47.840
 alcohol, same thing with tobacco, same thing with a lot of legal substances. So the question

01:50:47.840 --> 01:50:52.040
 is not the drug. The question is the relationship you have to the drug. And I think that if

01:50:52.040 --> 01:50:57.160
 we consider that more as a society, we'd ultimately have better outcomes for people who use drugs

01:50:57.160 --> 01:51:00.160
 and the people that have to deal with the people who use drugs.

01:51:00.160 --> 01:51:01.160
 Katina?

01:51:01.160 --> 01:51:08.440
 I want to make sure I understand what you're saying and what I think just on a baseline

01:51:08.440 --> 01:51:16.520
 is what I'm hearing is that because of the criminalization of drug use between the different

01:51:16.520 --> 01:51:22.440
 people groups, white drug use, how it's seen as a mental health issue and how people are

01:51:22.440 --> 01:51:29.440
 handled versus Black, Brown, and other people who use drugs and are automatically criminalized

01:51:29.440 --> 01:51:35.920
 and there's over sentencing, you're trying to, you're suggesting to leverage all of it.

01:51:35.920 --> 01:51:40.160
 And I do, I want to be clear that I do hear you saying that if someone is committing a

01:51:40.160 --> 01:51:45.640
 crime, they are committing a crime. I don't necessarily, I mean, I'm not even talking

01:51:45.640 --> 01:51:51.400
 about the drugs and the PCP or anything like that. We may differ on how all that works.

01:51:51.400 --> 01:51:59.200
 But on a base level, you're saying decriminalize or at least leverage drug use in a way that

01:51:59.200 --> 01:52:04.760
 brings equity to all people. And if people are committing crimes, if people are committing

01:52:04.760 --> 01:52:10.160
 crimes, then handle up on them commit the crime. Is that what you're saying?

01:52:10.160 --> 01:52:13.440
 Well, I guess this is, yes, that's exactly it. I would say the only distinction I would

01:52:13.440 --> 01:52:17.080
 make is that there needs to be a distinction between violent and nonviolent crimes. And

01:52:17.080 --> 01:52:21.640
 I would consider simple drug use in and of itself, like possession of drug use, or, you

01:52:21.640 --> 01:52:26.320
 know, acts around that like drug paraphernalia. Those shouldn't be, those are nonviolent crimes

01:52:26.320 --> 01:52:30.200
 and they should be, we should be considering it as such. And that's where decriminalization

01:52:30.200 --> 01:52:34.000
 of that should come into place. But I agree, if you're committing a violent crime, a violent

01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:37.920
 crime is still a violent crime and that has to be, you know, prosecuted. It's just important

01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:41.880
 that we make the distinction between violent and nonviolent crime. And I hope that this

01:52:41.880 --> 01:52:44.720
 would help further that. Thank you.

01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:48.280
 I have a comment.

01:52:48.280 --> 01:52:51.520
 Yes, Willie.

01:52:51.520 --> 01:53:01.760
 I was lectured by several of you for questioning a caller about what they saw as an issue,

01:53:01.760 --> 01:53:08.560
 and that I was told this is a forum for them to state what they believe and what they think

01:53:08.560 --> 01:53:18.880
 about a given situation on topic, presumably. And, but yet you, Cheryl, asked the question

01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:27.960
 about the caller, similar to what I'm thinking was my same concern, that I took issue with

01:53:27.960 --> 01:53:33.200
 what someone said, because I didn't think it was factual. You took issue, sounds like

01:53:33.200 --> 01:53:39.680
 to me, maybe something else, that this person was saying what he thought was what needed

01:53:39.680 --> 01:53:47.000
 to be done in a situation involving the police. So we are going to have to have it both ways.

01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:52.040
 You can question, then I think the rest of us can question, but I have to agree with

01:53:52.040 --> 01:53:56.760
 what was said earlier. This is not the place for that to happen.

01:53:56.760 --> 01:54:04.120
 No, Willie, I asked him a question to clarify what I thought I heard.

01:54:04.120 --> 01:54:09.720
 But then you proceeded to then tell him what your thoughts are on the situation.

01:54:09.720 --> 01:54:14.760
 No, I didn't tell him my thoughts, I told him my experience.

01:54:14.760 --> 01:54:22.640
 Okay, whatever you want to call it. And you weren't saying you were wrong, nor was I, per

01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:29.200
 se. But basically, I guess I was when I said that quit bringing the national situation

01:54:29.200 --> 01:54:35.240
 into Denton. Just deal with Denton's situation. And then, as I said, the committee members

01:54:35.240 --> 01:54:42.080
 who spoke out said to me that no, we are in, we have in this forum, or this situation now,

01:54:42.080 --> 01:54:48.280
 this discussion, so that people can feel free to voice what they think about a given situation.

01:54:48.280 --> 01:54:53.000
 And that's what he did. Even though I know several of us will take issue with it.

01:54:53.000 --> 01:54:58.200
 But this is not the place to take issues with it, I was told.

01:54:58.200 --> 01:55:02.720
 I think, I was just going to say, I mean, I did feel a little uncomfortable, because

01:55:02.720 --> 01:55:07.440
 I felt like he was kind of being jumped on because you had such a personal experience.

01:55:07.440 --> 01:55:12.280
 I just want to say we need to give grace to the people that are calling and also just

01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:15.880
 ourselves. We've all had experiences, you know, and if

01:55:15.880 --> 01:55:20.480
 we keep bringing our own in, that's going to discourage others from coming in and sharing.

01:55:20.480 --> 01:55:24.800
 And so I appreciate you, Willie, that you, you know, you said, I'm not going to do that,

01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:29.160
 you know, and I think that we all need to do that. So we can discuss this later on.

01:55:29.160 --> 01:55:33.260
 We also have the advantage that we're getting a lot more information than the public has.

01:55:33.260 --> 01:55:36.160
 So some of the things that they're saying, we could go back and say, oh, that was already

01:55:36.160 --> 01:55:40.160
 discussed. We already talked about that a week ago, too. That doesn't matter. Let them

01:55:40.160 --> 01:55:43.680
 speak. This is our four minutes. And I know that people have been on there waiting already

01:55:43.680 --> 01:55:49.120
 for like an hour, an hour and a half or something. So like you said, let's let's keep going.

01:55:49.120 --> 01:55:52.320
 Let's keep listening. If there's things that we need to come back and clarify that we can

01:55:52.320 --> 01:55:57.720
 do that. And our meetings are public anyway, so they'll be able to watch if they want.

01:55:57.720 --> 01:56:19.560
 And let's go on to the next caller. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Mariela. Yeah. Hi. Welcome

01:56:19.560 --> 01:56:24.740
 and thank you for calling. We'll give you four minutes and then if the committee has

01:56:24.740 --> 01:56:32.500
 questions afterwards, they'll ask you questions. Wonderful. Thank you. Good evening, committee

01:56:32.500 --> 01:56:39.040
 and buenas noches. My name is Mariela Nunez-Janes. I am a professor of anthropology with expertise

01:56:39.040 --> 01:56:45.080
 in the immigrant education. And I'm also part of a movement called Movimiento Cosecha Denton.

01:56:45.080 --> 01:56:51.880
 We focus on respect and dignity for the 11 million undocumented that are in the U.S.

01:56:51.880 --> 01:56:58.640
 and of course those that live in Denton. I was calling because I'm concerned about two

01:56:58.640 --> 01:57:05.040
 things. The first one is that I've been concerned about the committee operations and particularly

01:57:05.040 --> 01:57:12.960
 I was concerned about the ways in which this meeting was organized to focus on stories.

01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:19.920
 And I'm glad you had that conversation about what to do with those stories. And I really

01:57:19.920 --> 01:57:28.880
 hope and it seems to be an ongoing conversation and I really hope that you think about some

01:57:28.880 --> 01:57:34.900
 clear guidelines about what the committee is going to do with respect to the stories

01:57:34.900 --> 01:57:40.440
 and how they're going to be utilized for the purposes of the tasks that have been created

01:57:40.440 --> 01:57:48.280
 for this committee. Secondly, I wanted to raise some issues and questions related to

01:57:48.280 --> 01:57:54.600
 Denton PD's engagement with the immigrant community. I recently reviewed Denton PD's

01:57:54.600 --> 01:58:01.560
 proposal for engaging the immigrant community and I have been attending its Proyecto Amistad

01:58:01.560 --> 01:58:07.760
 which were community forums that were organized by Denton PD specifically to engage these

01:58:07.760 --> 01:58:12.480
 communities. And in these forums I have heard officers tell community members to call them

01:58:12.480 --> 01:58:17.660
 for anything that they need while at the same time express their frustration because they're

01:58:17.660 --> 01:58:23.680
 being asked to be mental health professionals, social workers, and in this instance immigration

01:58:23.680 --> 01:58:28.960
 officials. And officers are right to share this frustration and the presumption that

01:58:28.960 --> 01:58:35.360
 police can solve every problem I think is irresponsible and it is also dangerous. It

01:58:35.360 --> 01:58:40.720
 led to the deportation of one of my students and this happened before Chief Dixon became

01:58:40.720 --> 01:58:46.520
 chief, but it's a story that we hear over and over here in Denton and also in other

01:58:46.520 --> 01:58:51.420
 communities. The student had no criminal record and he got pulled over because of a broken

01:58:51.420 --> 01:58:58.080
 tail light. So the proposal that I read about engaging the immigrant community was reviewed

01:58:58.080 --> 01:59:03.760
 by myself and other community members, including some immigration attorneys, and we found all

01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:09.680
 sorts of inconsistencies and wrong information about immigration law and procedures. There

01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:16.480
 was no specific procedures for avoiding inquiries about immigration status and there was no

01:59:16.480 --> 01:59:22.120
 accountability in that proposal for officers who do not follow Denton PD's prerogative

01:59:22.120 --> 01:59:27.620
 of not being concerned with immigration issues. There was no specification of the department's

01:59:27.620 --> 01:59:35.120
 anti-discrimination policy or any norms of conduct to guarantee equal enforcement, particularly

01:59:35.120 --> 01:59:42.000
 as it pertains to the immigrant community in Denton. And if Denton PD has an official

01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:48.080
 stance when it comes to avoiding racial profiling, specifically in inquiries about status and

01:59:48.080 --> 01:59:53.960
 citizenship, why not make officers accountable? Why continue insisting in engaging inquiries

01:59:53.960 --> 02:00:00.560
 about immigration status, especially in cases of victims of crimes and crime reporting?

02:00:00.560 --> 02:00:06.440
 If Denton PD is only interested in identifying a person's identity during routine stops and

02:00:06.440 --> 02:00:12.720
 not inflicting fear on the immigrant community, why not invest instead in community resources

02:00:12.720 --> 02:00:17.640
 and programs that are needed so that those who don't have a driver's license or who have

02:00:17.640 --> 02:00:23.880
 all their other alternative forms of identification can get those kinds of identification?

02:00:23.880 --> 02:00:26.880
 You have 20 seconds.

02:00:26.880 --> 02:00:39.680
 I am done. Does anyone have any questions? I'd just like to clarify a point. So we sent

02:00:39.680 --> 02:00:45.360
 that policy out, the new general order out for vetting before it's not even finalized.

02:00:45.360 --> 02:00:48.920
 So we intentionally sent it out so we could get feedback from the community. And I don't

02:00:48.920 --> 02:00:52.480
 know if that's ever been done here before. So I just want to make sure that people know

02:00:52.480 --> 02:00:58.000
 that we're sending these general orders out to solicit feedback from you, the community,

02:00:58.000 --> 02:01:02.240
 before those are even issued. So that was not a finished policy when it was sent to

02:01:02.240 --> 02:01:08.520
 you for vetting. And it sounds like it did exactly what the intended purpose was, so we

02:01:08.520 --> 02:01:15.360
 could get feedback before we finalized it. So it's still not in time.

02:01:15.360 --> 02:01:20.720
 I appreciate it. I'm still waiting to hear the response related to the feedback that

02:01:20.720 --> 02:01:23.600
 I and others provided.

02:01:23.600 --> 02:01:29.720
 So I'm sitting right next to our policy sergeant right now. And the policy hasn't been finalized.

02:01:29.720 --> 02:01:33.640
 She's going to be reaching back out to all the groups because we sent it to more than

02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:41.040
 just to you. Some of the groups haven't responded back to us yet. So we're trying to be as flexible

02:01:41.040 --> 02:01:45.480
 as we can. We don't want any community member to think that we're moving on without getting

02:01:45.480 --> 02:01:48.480
 their input.

02:01:48.480 --> 02:01:58.600
 I understand that. In the meantime, I think it is an item that needs to be discussed and

02:01:58.600 --> 02:02:07.560
 put on a priority list, particularly in our current COVID crisis. There are people that

02:02:07.560 --> 02:02:13.620
 are being detained and that are being deported who are infected with COVID. There's somebody

02:02:13.620 --> 02:02:19.680
 right now in the Denton County jail who has an ice hold. And whether, I don't know if

02:02:19.680 --> 02:02:28.440
 that person was actually detained by Denton PD or not, but it is happening. And so I think

02:02:28.440 --> 02:02:34.400
 it's something that needs to be put on the priority list. And it's often not considered

02:02:34.400 --> 02:02:41.040
 in discussions related to police use of force. I think we need to think about also the psychological

02:02:41.040 --> 02:02:46.520
 impacts of force. And certainly when it comes to the immigrant community, the ability to

02:02:46.520 --> 02:02:53.360
 use fear is also an example of force.

02:02:53.360 --> 02:02:54.360
 Camille?

02:02:54.360 --> 02:03:05.120
 Oh, I wasn't really raising my hand, but I will say, I want to thank you for sharing

02:03:05.120 --> 02:03:12.200
 your comments and uplifting the needs and concerns that might be of those folks that

02:03:12.200 --> 02:03:16.520
 we have in Denton that are immigrants. I know as an organizer here in Denton, there are

02:03:16.520 --> 02:03:24.280
 events that we plan that we have to provide alerts for so that folks who might be migrants

02:03:24.280 --> 02:03:29.920
 or immigrants know that police might be there because it's necessary sometimes when you

02:03:29.920 --> 02:03:35.400
 have events, it's not an option not to have them. So I just wanted to uplift thank you

02:03:35.400 --> 02:03:37.080
 for sharing that information.

02:03:37.080 --> 02:03:38.080
 Lillian?

02:03:38.080 --> 02:03:39.080
 Thanks.

02:03:39.080 --> 02:03:47.080
 I was just going to say thank you, Dr. Neus-Janes, just for all the information. And it's not

02:03:47.080 --> 02:03:51.400
 only the undocumented population that has these concerns, it's also people who are naturalized

02:03:51.400 --> 02:03:56.280
 citizens and U.S. citizens. Because if a person is going to make an assumption, they're not

02:03:56.280 --> 02:04:00.200
 necessarily going to, you know, I don't have my birth certificate or my passport, you know,

02:04:00.200 --> 02:04:05.080
 to show that I'm a U.S. citizen. So it goes to racial profiling. Those are real issues

02:04:05.080 --> 02:04:10.800
 that we have to consider because we wear our identity on our skin, you know. And so I appreciate

02:04:10.800 --> 02:04:13.800
 you bringing that up to the forefront, Mariela.

02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:14.800
 Pam?

02:04:14.800 --> 02:04:24.000
 I just wanted to thank you as well, because I don't, we don't want to be afraid. These

02:04:24.000 --> 02:04:29.680
 issues have to be brought to the forefront. And I'm very, very appreciative of you bringing

02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:33.280
 this to our committee. So I'm very grateful for that. Thank you.

02:04:33.280 --> 02:04:34.880
 You're welcome.

02:04:34.880 --> 02:04:43.200
 Katina, did you raise your hand? Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Thank you for calling.

02:04:43.200 --> 02:04:45.040
 Thank you. Have a good night.

02:04:45.040 --> 02:04:57.840
 All right. And that will, we don't have any more callers in our queue. Do we need any?

02:04:57.840 --> 02:05:08.120
 Can I ask a quick question? Yes. It's probably something I shouldn't have. Can someone tell

02:05:08.120 --> 02:05:13.800
 me what's the number of total committee members that we have? And what's the number necessary

02:05:13.800 --> 02:05:18.320
 to reach a quorum?

02:05:18.320 --> 02:05:21.080
 We have 21. Quorum is 11.

02:05:21.080 --> 02:05:23.120
 Thank you.

02:05:23.120 --> 02:05:31.360
 Cheryl, this is Mike. Just wanted to mention a point that a first couple of speakers mentioned.

02:05:31.360 --> 02:05:37.280
 There is no provision under state law that allows the forfeiture of a pension. If an

02:05:37.280 --> 02:05:42.760
 officer is fired or convicted of a crime, the legislature is going to have to change

02:05:42.760 --> 02:05:48.480
 that. Okay.

02:05:48.480 --> 02:05:55.120
 To that point, Mike, I think it would be helpful and Chief Dixon also. There are a lot of issues

02:05:55.120 --> 02:06:00.280
 raised tonight and I imagine they will continue to be raised over this committee's work that

02:06:00.280 --> 02:06:06.440
 are legislative in nature and not of city governance. And so I think there have been

02:06:06.440 --> 02:06:12.680
 several points made by several committee members tonight and even in previous meetings about

02:06:12.680 --> 02:06:17.880
 the importance of educating not only ourselves as committee members but also helping to educate

02:06:17.880 --> 02:06:23.840
 the public about those differences. Can you start to kind of create, I don't know, sort

02:06:23.840 --> 02:06:29.680
 of an FAQ or whatnot that would list out some of those things so that we can begin sharing

02:06:29.680 --> 02:06:31.280
 that information?

02:06:31.280 --> 02:06:39.960
 Sure. Yeah. And I'll talk to the chief. I know and I believe city manager probably knows

02:06:39.960 --> 02:06:46.440
 more about this than I do that when the legislature is scheduled to meet, I think the city has

02:06:46.440 --> 02:06:51.360
 its certain things that they want to address and bring to the legislature and I'll bet

02:06:51.360 --> 02:07:01.400
 you that statewide there's going to be some legislation made or presented to the legislature

02:07:01.400 --> 02:07:07.160
 dealing with all kinds of police reforms. The other thing too I forgot to mention, not

02:07:07.160 --> 02:07:15.600
 only can we not stop a pension, people had mentioned benefits. If an officer is fired

02:07:15.600 --> 02:07:20.480
 they can keep their health benefits for 18 months under COBRA. If someone's injured on

02:07:20.480 --> 02:07:25.680
 duty they're going to keep their workers comp benefits. But if they're fired their vacation

02:07:25.680 --> 02:07:31.960
 all that other stuff stops but it would take legislative action on the pension front. Some

02:07:31.960 --> 02:07:38.000
 other states do provide forfeiture of a pension if an officer is fired or convicted of a crime

02:07:38.000 --> 02:07:43.520
 arising from their job, but that's not in Texas law. But I'll get with the chief and

02:07:43.520 --> 02:07:47.740
 we'll certainly put together a list of the types of things that you've talked about from

02:07:47.740 --> 02:07:52.880
 a reform standpoint. My suggestion would be in the recommendations that you make to the

02:07:52.880 --> 02:07:56.000
 mayor and council to raise those issues.

02:07:56.000 --> 02:08:02.960
 So those aren't things that the meeting confer can change? Some of them yes. I don't think

02:08:02.960 --> 02:08:13.520
 you can change the pension statute. I don't think we can negotiate a change to that. Yes

02:08:13.520 --> 02:08:20.680
 Gary. Mike on that same topic, would it be possible to see what the city advocated for

02:08:20.680 --> 02:08:26.840
 in the most recent previous state legislative session and maybe help us understand what

02:08:26.840 --> 02:08:31.840
 was passed versus what was left on the table that you hope to achieve that you want to

02:08:31.840 --> 02:08:38.360
 carry forward this next session. Sure we have a legislative priority booklet that we have

02:08:38.360 --> 02:08:43.080
 the city council debate give us input on and then that's basically our marching orders

02:08:43.080 --> 02:08:46.520
 through the legislative session. So I'll ask Sarah to send it out to the committee just

02:08:46.520 --> 02:08:55.760
 so you get an idea what that looks like. Yes Katina. So in listening to the calls from

02:08:55.760 --> 02:09:05.160
 the citizens, a name that just continued to come up was Darius Tarver. And then the other

02:09:05.160 --> 02:09:15.880
 issue was just what good are we as an ad hoc committee? Like are we worthless or are we

02:09:15.880 --> 02:09:22.600
 doing any good? Those were the two things that came forward and as well as because we

02:09:22.600 --> 02:09:29.400
 do have police officers on the committee and just you know the accountability and if there's

02:09:29.400 --> 02:09:36.840
 a bias. And I feel like that we need to flush those three things out a little bit more because

02:09:36.840 --> 02:09:45.320
 it's clear and even in the protest Darius's name came up. He was one of the reasons why

02:09:45.320 --> 02:09:54.240
 we were there were 7500 protesters and a thousand protesters and ongoing protests. I really would

02:09:54.240 --> 02:10:01.960
 love for us to consider and if this is possible some type of report to be accountable. I don't

02:10:01.960 --> 02:10:07.640
 know if that's possible because of the investigation but just kind of spelling out and answering

02:10:07.640 --> 02:10:13.640
 some of these questions and things that you know the Dent PD has been challenged on because

02:10:13.640 --> 02:10:22.120
 it's a real source of contention. And it's a real sort like it's an issue of like there's

02:10:22.120 --> 02:10:32.360
 an issue of distrust within PD based on Darius's case and the other young man who was killed.

02:10:32.360 --> 02:10:40.320
 And so that's one issue but two I think we the citizens deserve to hear from us as far

02:10:40.320 --> 02:10:46.400
 as just our like what are we doing and our you know accountability to them and that we're

02:10:46.400 --> 02:10:52.520
 not here for optics. And I know that several of us like we you know I know I'm looking

02:10:52.520 --> 02:10:58.840
 at faces are very passionate including some on the police force side are very passionate

02:10:58.840 --> 02:11:05.680
 about seeing reform and I think that the people deserve to know like and get those questions

02:11:05.680 --> 02:11:12.760
 answered and you know be comforted knowing that we were not here just for a show. And

02:11:12.760 --> 02:11:19.000
 then what was the other thing I said there were three things. I'm sorry y'all. Well

02:11:19.000 --> 02:11:24.560
 let me just say this with regards to and I know that that's everybody's concern is that

02:11:24.560 --> 02:11:31.280
 there is Tarver case. Yeah. But at the same time we have to allow due process and it's

02:11:31.280 --> 02:11:37.520
 under investigation and Mike you can jump in if you want to because you're the attorney.

02:11:37.520 --> 02:11:44.480
 I don't think that during an investigation we're going to get much information we can

02:11:44.480 --> 02:11:52.240
 take the charges to look at the policies that the department has and based on that and the

02:11:52.240 --> 02:11:59.960
 information that we've received in the presentations and just what we've got here. A couple things

02:11:59.960 --> 02:12:08.240
 I think Jesse probably needs to recuse from this. Okay. If I'm reading your hand right

02:12:08.240 --> 02:12:14.760
 is that correct. Yeah. So specifically on that one. Oh there you are. Okay. Yeah I did

02:12:14.760 --> 02:12:21.160
 have a comment in response to Katina's good points that she brought up but specifically

02:12:21.160 --> 02:12:25.480
 if the committee is going to discuss that one case then I would need to I'll just mute

02:12:25.480 --> 02:12:31.480
 my video. Okay. I did have a response to Katina also. Okay. Well you go ahead with your response

02:12:31.480 --> 02:12:36.160
 to Katina Jesse you're probably going to say what I was going to say. Well we might be

02:12:36.160 --> 02:12:41.280
 saying something similar. I just wanted to kind of from the council viewpoint jump in

02:12:41.280 --> 02:12:47.340
 and talk about the thing that the council and the policymakers in Denton really need

02:12:47.340 --> 02:12:54.680
 from this committee the value that y'all bring is in the perspectives and it's the role as

02:12:54.680 --> 02:12:59.680
 it's defined in the resolution that we that we did of course is on use of force. We know

02:12:59.680 --> 02:13:04.880
 that police policies around use of force are necessarily going to be broader than just

02:13:04.880 --> 02:13:10.360
 that one topic. We know that use of force is going to necessarily involve a bigger conversation

02:13:10.360 --> 02:13:16.040
 but I think it's really important to remember that even though everybody comes from a lot

02:13:16.040 --> 02:13:21.160
 of different perspectives a lot of different backgrounds the folks on the committee that

02:13:21.160 --> 02:13:25.760
 the police on the committee are members of the police associations. Everybody else on

02:13:25.760 --> 02:13:29.080
 your screen that's police associated is not a member of the committee they're just here

02:13:29.080 --> 02:13:33.880
 for for resources they don't have a vote. What council is looking for is a report from

02:13:33.880 --> 02:13:39.340
 y'all on what improvements can be made at the city of Denton what's going well what's

02:13:39.340 --> 02:13:45.920
 not going well specifically on use of force and frankly that's bigger than any one case

02:13:45.920 --> 02:13:51.040
 it's bigger than any one agenda some of our callers tonight were associated with certain

02:13:51.040 --> 02:13:56.320
 organizations but you know that y'all this is not just about Black Lives Matter or protests

02:13:56.320 --> 02:14:00.880
 it's about you know getting it right for Denton and Samuel had a really good point when he

02:14:00.880 --> 02:14:05.920
 called in he said what we need is healing and justice and and that's really spot on

02:14:05.920 --> 02:14:12.080
 that's more than just one group's duty that's really on the shoulders of the whole community.

02:14:12.080 --> 02:14:18.040
 So I think as much as it would be helpful for that for the committee to talk about a

02:14:18.040 --> 02:14:23.400
 particular incident or a particular case I think the thing the council needs is something

02:14:23.400 --> 02:14:28.120
 that's bigger than that and broader than that and more than just incidents in time even

02:14:28.120 --> 02:14:33.280
 some of our callers talked about you have to be careful with stories and anecdotes that

02:14:33.280 --> 02:14:37.560
 we have to look out is the big the big picture and councils asking you all the big picture

02:14:37.560 --> 02:14:44.480
 questions. Well and I appreciate your response but I just want to clarify because I do think

02:14:44.480 --> 02:14:51.920
 that it takes both there are stories and Darius Tarver is a culmination of why we and why

02:14:51.920 --> 02:14:57.560
 we're here. Black Lives Matter it you know yeah it needs to be more than Black Lives

02:14:57.560 --> 02:15:03.320
 Matter but this is where we are because Black Lives haven't mattered and this is why we

02:15:03.320 --> 02:15:09.480
 need to be here. The Black people you know like myself and Kamyon like we're here for

02:15:09.480 --> 02:15:19.280
 because Black Lives haven't mattered and this has been centuries and decades of issues that

02:15:19.280 --> 02:15:25.720
 culminate in some of these stories and Denton has stories and that's one of the issues is

02:15:25.720 --> 02:15:33.000
 that so often we think oh Denton such a sweet little college town and we have the best you

02:15:33.000 --> 02:15:41.480
 know police chief now we do and but but there are stories that have been untold there didn't

02:15:41.480 --> 02:15:46.080
 record Chronicle is not covering all the stuff that you know the Black Lives Matter people

02:15:46.080 --> 02:15:52.080
 want to talk about you know we become soundbites so these stories are important and integral

02:15:52.080 --> 02:15:58.760
 even though big picture yes you know it needs to be more than just those stories but those

02:15:58.760 --> 02:16:04.080
 stories are part of what we're doing it's a part of the fabric and so I appreciate your

02:16:04.080 --> 02:16:13.000
 response but I just wanted to to clarify. Cheryl if I could I would like to ask Mike

02:16:13.000 --> 02:16:18.320
 Cronig to weigh in on the Darius Tarver thing I think we need to hit it head-on and I'd

02:16:18.320 --> 02:16:24.160
 like him to at least educate the committee on the processes we have to follow this isn't

02:16:24.160 --> 02:16:29.880
 something where there's much of a choice for all parties involved but it deserves a response

02:16:29.880 --> 02:16:36.520
 and and I'd like to ask Michael to try to educate everyone as much as we can from the

02:16:36.520 --> 02:16:42.800
 administrative investigation if you remember I think was last week I was talking about

02:16:42.800 --> 02:16:48.640
 the GE material and the confidential that's an ongoing investigation and that is confidential

02:16:48.640 --> 02:16:54.520
 by law at this point and I'll be just right up front with you I don't even know all the

02:16:54.520 --> 02:17:00.480
 facts yet the investigation is ongoing so for the committee really to be talking about

02:17:00.480 --> 02:17:05.480
 what happened without even the chief and me knowing all the facts just as kind of premature

02:17:05.480 --> 02:17:11.360
 at this point so that's from an administrative standpoint but from a criminal standpoint

02:17:11.360 --> 02:17:18.520
 it will be presented to the grand jury at some point and I don't know if that investigation

02:17:18.520 --> 02:17:24.120
 is done we also don't want to taint I think the last thing right might want is a change

02:17:24.120 --> 02:17:31.160
 of venue if there's too much talk and discussion out there if if he's indicted or any other

02:17:31.160 --> 02:17:35.040
 officers then they may want to change a venue and move it because I don't think they can

02:17:35.040 --> 02:17:39.800
 get a fair trial because there's been too much pretrial discussion about it and we don't

02:17:39.800 --> 02:17:45.680
 want to interfere with the district attorney's ability to present that case fairly to the

02:17:45.680 --> 02:17:52.840
 grand jury so chief is there anything you want to add from yours no those are just the

02:17:52.840 --> 02:17:59.240
 concerns at this point I know everyone wants to talk about it but it's just not the appropriate

02:17:59.240 --> 02:18:05.080
 time right now unfortunately well and I appreciate that that response was very helpful I'm not

02:18:05.080 --> 02:18:10.520
 sure I wasn't sure at what stage the case was so that response is extremely helpful

02:18:10.520 --> 02:18:16.460
 thank you yeah it hasn't it hasn't got to the grand jury so if the city takes any position

02:18:16.460 --> 02:18:21.240
 all parties are harmed okay let me let me get to Willie because I just got to pop up

02:18:21.240 --> 02:18:30.680
 that we have a caller and so I'm gonna go to Willie Jamie Lillian and came on and and

02:18:30.680 --> 02:18:38.160
 then we're gonna take this caller okay thank you sure Jesse you said something was very

02:18:38.160 --> 02:18:46.760
 helpful to me because I I was not really clear as to where we were trying to go with the

02:18:46.760 --> 02:18:53.880
 committee from this for sure from the standpoint of what council needs and so I wish you would

02:18:53.880 --> 02:19:02.120
 Jesse just very quickly again summarize what you would hope what you would like for us

02:19:02.120 --> 02:19:09.960
 to present to you as a committee sure I think what council is looking for and and I think

02:19:09.960 --> 02:19:15.120
 probably the city manager as he oversees the chief and the police department what we're

02:19:15.120 --> 02:19:20.200
 looking for is a report from our citizens on what's working well at the Denton police

02:19:20.200 --> 02:19:26.120
 department where there's room for improvement things that we could be doing better and you

02:19:26.120 --> 02:19:31.320
 know give credit where it's due and and also be unflinching and criticism I think that's

02:19:31.320 --> 02:19:36.640
 only I think that's only fair in this kind of situation situation and I think that's

02:19:36.640 --> 02:19:40.480
 the only way we move forward from this time that we're in is to deal honestly with each

02:19:40.480 --> 02:19:52.960
 other in that way all right thank you

02:19:52.960 --> 02:20:00.800
 Jamie did I say you were next and then Lillian and then came on I don't know I don't know

02:20:00.800 --> 02:20:08.400
 I was just gonna speak to Katina's point about accountability I know that when we had our

02:20:08.400 --> 02:20:14.720
 first meeting we sort of did around Robin introduction of ourselves and it focused on

02:20:14.720 --> 02:20:21.040
 sometimes community activism sometimes our professional lives or some sort of combination

02:20:21.040 --> 02:20:27.520
 of those things but there hasn't really been a space for us to speak out individually about

02:20:27.520 --> 02:20:33.040
 why it is that we felt compelled to agree to this committee because none of us were

02:20:33.040 --> 02:20:40.040
 appointed and and I think there are maybe we were I don't know I wasn't I was asked

02:20:40.040 --> 02:20:46.280
 by the mayor to participate and I had the choice to agree to participate or not and

02:20:46.280 --> 02:20:51.960
 so I think that that kind of information is important to the community because we've heard

02:20:51.960 --> 02:20:57.840
 a couple times tonight either perceptions or misperceptions about how I was committing

02:20:57.840 --> 02:21:04.920
 with organized and feelings that it was too top-down and that we sort of are here on some

02:21:04.920 --> 02:21:11.280
 sort of contrived pretense and I don't I don't think that's true for any of us and so I wondered

02:21:11.280 --> 02:21:15.640
 if there might be space for us to speak to that either in writing or on the web page

02:21:15.640 --> 02:21:27.640
 or something we can do it on the webpage Lillian yes um I wanted to make a couple of points

02:21:27.640 --> 02:21:31.920
 um I'm glad that this is coming up because that was a question that I wanted to to talk

02:21:31.920 --> 02:21:38.320
 about um so Jesse you said you know what council needs what the city manager needs I think

02:21:38.320 --> 02:21:44.160
 that's super important but I also think that each of us as community members that are expected

02:21:44.160 --> 02:21:48.420
 to take the information that we learn here and take it back to our own communities we

02:21:48.420 --> 02:21:53.840
 also have to bring forward what does the community need what is it that they want right um you

02:21:53.840 --> 02:21:59.600
 also talked about you know what's working well or give credit or credit it's due I hope

02:21:59.600 --> 02:22:04.320
 that that's not only as it pertains to use of force because that would then then we need

02:22:04.320 --> 02:22:07.720
 to be having a very different conversation and only concentrate on that if we're talking

02:22:07.720 --> 02:22:11.680
 about the department as a whole what's working you know well it's with the department as

02:22:11.680 --> 02:22:16.080
 a whole I think that that's more along the lines of what we're doing um I come back to

02:22:16.080 --> 02:22:20.080
 the accountability piece when we were talking about you know that's that's the legislature

02:22:20.080 --> 02:22:24.200
 we need to go you know talk to the legislature and I asked okay well can that be changed

02:22:24.200 --> 02:22:29.560
 you know with an income fair and then it dawned on me that why with the police department

02:22:29.560 --> 02:22:35.080
 and the and the police association made up of police officers bring up something like

02:22:35.080 --> 02:22:38.880
 that to where they're going to lose pension and they're going to lose benefits right because

02:22:38.880 --> 02:22:43.440
 they're being held accountable for something that they do the only people whose interests

02:22:43.440 --> 02:22:48.320
 I would serve is the community and so that's why I think that a lot of us keep on bringing

02:22:48.320 --> 02:22:54.160
 up the point that we need a community oversight committee whether it's on use of force whether

02:22:54.160 --> 02:23:00.520
 it's to do you know to deal with the being confer um you know it at any level I think

02:23:00.520 --> 02:23:04.200
 that that's been the point that's missing and I think that's the point that is uncomfortable

02:23:04.200 --> 02:23:09.000
 at the beginning of this um Willie I'm not picking on you because I love you but but

02:23:09.000 --> 02:23:12.400
 you said um you know how do I even know it's true you know and we're quick to question

02:23:12.400 --> 02:23:17.320
 when a community person comes up and says something because we might not ever experience

02:23:17.320 --> 02:23:22.520
 but that's the way that I've been approaching the numbers and the the anecdotal uh statements

02:23:22.520 --> 02:23:26.760
 that some of the police are telling me you know if I don't ask clarifying questions I

02:23:26.760 --> 02:23:32.440
 hope that I'm not being perceived as combative or that I'm nitpicking I just if I say if

02:23:32.440 --> 02:23:37.640
 if someone tells me there's 14 use of force um and only three were sustained and I just

02:23:37.640 --> 02:23:42.040
 sit there and say okay and I don't ask a question then that defeats the purpose of me even being

02:23:42.040 --> 02:23:46.600
 on this committee I want to know why was it sustained who brought the complaint who ruled

02:23:46.600 --> 02:23:51.160
 that it was sustained and why were the other 14 not you know and so those are the things

02:23:51.160 --> 02:23:58.320
 that I think we need to hold our department at a higher standard of accountability than

02:23:58.320 --> 02:24:03.080
 even the citizens does that make sense and so I just want to bring all that up because

02:24:03.080 --> 02:24:07.760
 I think that there's lots of things that we need to flush out but I think the overall

02:24:07.760 --> 02:24:13.640
 thing is that we need more citizen input we need more citizen oversight we need more citizen

02:24:13.640 --> 02:24:17.920
 investment right and we need more of these voices to come in and and kind of share the

02:24:17.920 --> 02:24:22.880
 information that that we're hearing and that all these conversations are happening so you

02:24:22.880 --> 02:24:26.680
 know I wanted I wanted to say that because I think that it's really easy to get lost

02:24:26.680 --> 02:24:30.080
 because there is a lot but the one thing that I keep hearing and the one thing that I'm

02:24:30.080 --> 02:24:34.280
 going to make sure that council knows at least for my part is that we need citizen oversight

02:24:34.280 --> 02:24:46.360
 cam man were you next sure I am um I don't know if I have my thoughts fully formed uh

02:24:46.360 --> 02:24:53.880
 but thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts I just wanted to share that um I do agree

02:24:53.880 --> 02:24:59.680
 that Jessie said that all of us were brought here because of our perspectives and I wanted

02:24:59.680 --> 02:25:03.600
 to uplift what Jamie said that we haven't actually been able to share what those perspectives

02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:11.360
 are um or I wanted to also uplift like what a caller mentioned around like are we going

02:25:11.360 --> 02:25:17.200
 to be able to share our perspectives around um police and police force or our experiences

02:25:17.200 --> 02:25:22.960
 because that is probably one of the reasons I joined this committee are due to my experiences

02:25:22.960 --> 02:25:26.920
 but I don't know if I'm allowed to share those in this space so I'm wondering if there's

02:25:26.920 --> 02:25:34.040
 going to be space for that um I also wanted to share along the lines of what Lillian was

02:25:34.040 --> 02:25:39.120
 saying is that all of us most of us on the first meeting mentioned that we're community

02:25:39.120 --> 02:25:46.480
 members that are well engaged with um community activism and that we're not just accountable

02:25:46.480 --> 02:25:51.400
 for the work that we're doing on this committee but we are accountable to the committee the

02:25:51.400 --> 02:25:57.040
 community and so they are looking to us these are people we were chosen because we're community

02:25:57.040 --> 02:26:03.120
 leaders I think I think that's why I was brought on um and so we're we're accountable to the

02:26:03.120 --> 02:26:08.040
 communities in which we serve and so if we're not bringing up things we aren't necessarily

02:26:08.040 --> 02:26:12.680
 meaning to be contentious but if we aren't bringing up things that are questionable to

02:26:12.680 --> 02:26:17.640
 us or that affect our communities then we're not going to be able to make a difference

02:26:17.640 --> 02:26:23.680
 here and I also want to uplift um I'm glad that Katina brought up some themes that you

02:26:23.680 --> 02:26:31.160
 saw I saw themes around racial profiling I saw themes around immigration um and profiling

02:26:31.160 --> 02:26:37.560
 those individuals I heard so many themes around mental health so whether or not we are able

02:26:37.560 --> 02:26:42.640
 to talk about Darius Tarver and what's going on with that case the number one theme around

02:26:42.640 --> 02:26:49.720
 that case is mental health concerns and how police um use of force is used around those

02:26:49.720 --> 02:26:55.080
 situations and that's something that the committee needs to definitely uplift I also want to

02:26:55.080 --> 02:27:02.320
 bring back up um two other things only two other things um I want to bring back up the

02:27:02.320 --> 02:27:08.200
 idea of these stories that we're hearing and that are being shared and how we could support

02:27:08.200 --> 02:27:14.480
 community members that are sharing these stories is it possible for us to have um some sort

02:27:14.480 --> 02:27:21.880
 of counselor on on hold for folks after they are on a call that they can process things

02:27:21.880 --> 02:27:27.400
 with after they're done speaking with us um just to make sure that we're not doing additional

02:27:27.400 --> 02:27:33.520
 harm to folks that are calling in and um the last thing I want to mention is like I heard

02:27:33.520 --> 02:27:40.640
 that this is not just Black Lives Matters and I agree that this goes far beyond just

02:27:40.640 --> 02:27:45.200
 black lives because there are many lives that are affected by police I've heard a lot about

02:27:45.200 --> 02:27:53.400
 those um but I want to mention that like for me and probably for many community members

02:27:53.400 --> 02:27:57.760
 this committee was put together after a large amount of protest around the movement for

02:27:57.760 --> 02:28:03.200
 black lives after the murder of a community member that was black that had mental health

02:28:03.200 --> 02:28:09.440
 issues so for community members these things are intertwined and they might be intertwined

02:28:09.440 --> 02:28:15.040
 also for members of this committee and so we can't discount that as a reason that we're

02:28:15.040 --> 02:28:20.560
 here and it is literally a reason why people are calling in as we've heard and it needs

02:28:20.560 --> 02:28:26.640
 to be discussed so those are my last two things to mention.

02:28:26.640 --> 02:28:40.400
 Okay um does anybody else um who does anybody else have anything we say before we adjourn?

02:28:40.400 --> 02:28:41.400
 Go ahead Todd.

02:28:41.400 --> 02:28:46.640
 Yeah Cheryl thank you um I think the Kamians points those are really good points we we have

02:28:46.640 --> 02:28:52.160
 been uh doing our best to try to bring information to the table to help educate the committee

02:28:52.160 --> 02:28:56.120
 and and you know try to share some of the progress that we're making but I think that

02:28:56.120 --> 02:29:01.000
 is an excellent idea if we could get ask all of you that if we're not hitting some of the

02:29:01.000 --> 02:29:05.080
 subjects you want us to hit because we're building these agendas it would be very helpful

02:29:05.080 --> 02:29:08.900
 for us to know what you would like to learn about what you'd like to hear about with with

02:29:08.900 --> 02:29:13.920
 regard to this I mean the policies are dry they're important uh we've overwhelmed you

02:29:13.920 --> 02:29:19.560
 with a lot of information about uh chapter 143 our meet and confer that sort of thing

02:29:19.560 --> 02:29:24.960
 um but but we're really trying to to get our pulse on on what you would like to know and

02:29:24.960 --> 02:29:29.920
 I think it would be helpful to email uh Sarah myself Chief Dixon just say hey at the next

02:29:29.920 --> 02:29:33.680
 meeting or two can we please address these topics and we're happy to do whatever you

02:29:33.680 --> 02:29:37.880
 want.

02:29:37.880 --> 02:29:43.300
 Just a quick question is was this uh portion was it still going um like could people still

02:29:43.300 --> 02:29:45.800
 view it at real time?

02:29:45.800 --> 02:29:50.120
 Yes uh I think we had said that we were cutting the meeting down at are you talking about

02:29:50.120 --> 02:29:51.120
 tonight?

02:29:51.120 --> 02:29:57.960
 Yes like is this time that we're having discussion um is it still showing for citizens?

02:29:57.960 --> 02:30:02.520
 It will still show for citizens we'll have it recorded and uh we're just kind of we're

02:30:02.520 --> 02:30:07.160
 wrapping up in accordance with your 8 30 um deadline and just trying to get your input

02:30:07.160 --> 02:30:11.800
 on what you would like how do you like us to spend your time in the next few weeks?

02:30:11.800 --> 02:30:38.160
 Cheryl did we talk so long that the caller hung up you're muted

02:30:38.160 --> 02:30:41.720
 your headphone or something isn't working maybe unplug it and try to talk through the

02:30:41.720 --> 02:30:42.720
 computer.

02:31:11.720 --> 02:31:25.400
 Well she's figuring that out um um Mike can you help me understand um the open meeting

02:31:25.400 --> 02:31:33.480
 act um if if I are we allowed to talk to someone else on the committee if it's not a quorum?

02:31:33.480 --> 02:31:37.960
 No you need a quorum in order to have um for the committee to meet.

02:31:37.960 --> 02:31:43.960
 No but if it's just a conversation then guess is what I'm asking like are we allowed to

02:31:43.960 --> 02:31:48.840
 have private conversations as members regarding committee business is that what you're asking

02:31:48.840 --> 02:31:49.840
 Lillian?

02:31:49.840 --> 02:32:00.720
 Yes yes I think I'll defer to Sarah she wants to answer that if she can well I kind of wanted

02:32:00.720 --> 02:32:09.680
 to know what's the law not what we might refer as as as citizens we're not elected officials

02:32:09.680 --> 02:32:16.480
 we're not anything so are we not allowed to do that yes we can yes we can talk to each

02:32:16.480 --> 02:32:22.980
 other yes okay oh well Mike and Sarah do y'all want to because that that's something that's

02:32:22.980 --> 02:32:29.360
 of concern to me I want to know that are you talking are you talking about in this meeting

02:32:29.360 --> 02:32:34.720
 setting here or just outside no like let's say I go grab coffee with Gary because Gary's

02:32:34.720 --> 02:32:39.200
 a nice guy and I and you know we talk about we debrief what we talked about and you know

02:32:39.200 --> 02:32:44.240
 that's fine yeah that's yeah I thought you meant if you didn't have a quorum for this

02:32:44.240 --> 02:32:48.520
 meeting could you then proceed into okay I misunderstood you and is there and is there

02:32:48.520 --> 02:32:52.600
 a sign on a number like what about what about if five of us went out to get coffee that's

02:32:52.600 --> 02:33:02.040
 fine and you guys hear me oh okay thanks sorry go ahead is that fine we would probably just

02:33:02.040 --> 02:33:06.720
 you know discourage as you get larger larger groups because you know because then it's

02:33:06.720 --> 02:33:10.520
 going to be perceived that you're working outside of the committee I mean if if a couple

02:33:10.520 --> 02:33:15.960
 of you want to go grab a bite to eat or a coffee or whatever I think that's fine but

02:33:15.960 --> 02:33:20.920
 you know part of the benefit of this committee is is the transparency with which we're operating

02:33:20.920 --> 02:33:24.880
 and all the questions that you're asking that sort of thing so I think it's going to be

02:33:24.880 --> 02:33:28.960
 in the eye of the beholder if they see a large group of folks working outside of the committee

02:33:28.960 --> 02:33:33.080
 I think the optics sometimes aren't great and I would probably encourage you if it's

02:33:33.080 --> 02:33:46.120
 more than one or two people don't do it it would be only if you exceeded a quorum that's

02:33:46.120 --> 02:33:54.600
 that would be appropriate okay can you hear me now yes okay next week I'm gonna get you

02:33:54.600 --> 02:33:59.000
 Rhonda I just want to remind you next week we're gonna have calls as well so we'll do

02:33:59.000 --> 02:34:08.000
 the first 30 minutes no Sarah no sorry the next meeting is on July 30th we had planned

02:34:08.000 --> 02:34:13.920
 to finish the use of force policies but we'll reconvene we'll see if there's any other topics

02:34:13.920 --> 02:34:18.520
 that we received from committee members kind of kind of try to plan out or sketch out the

02:34:18.520 --> 02:34:22.520
 next few meetings for the committee and get your feedback make sure that we are covering

02:34:22.520 --> 02:34:28.240
 the topics that you want to hear about and then we have off there is no meeting the week

02:34:28.240 --> 02:34:34.320
 of Thursday August 6 there is no meeting so that is a break in the schedule but the next

02:34:34.320 --> 02:34:39.520
 meeting will be on July 30th then second public input session that we had planned on the calendar

02:34:39.520 --> 02:34:47.800
 is for August 20th and so we will leave open the online form so residents can continue

02:34:47.800 --> 02:34:53.240
 to submit comments throughout the next month we'll periodically send reports to the committee

02:34:53.240 --> 02:34:59.440
 members so you have all those comments and can digest continue to digest and review those

02:34:59.440 --> 02:35:04.880
 and then we will have the second input session with the phone in on August 20th we can put

02:35:04.880 --> 02:35:09.480
 on the next agenda if the committee wants to discuss altering that public input session

02:35:09.480 --> 02:35:15.520
 at all based upon the first session that we've experienced here thank you Sarah okay Willie

02:35:15.520 --> 02:35:21.600
 you had a comment and then we're gonna adjourn the meeting yes as the chair I would make

02:35:21.600 --> 02:35:29.120
 a recommendation that you direct this meeting a different direction just my own preference

02:35:29.120 --> 02:35:35.000
 I'm tired of all the charts and people talking about things that are not helping me to reach

02:35:35.000 --> 02:35:44.080
 the conclusion that Jesse is saying the council wants us to reach I also agree with the comments

02:35:44.080 --> 02:35:49.080
 that somewhere and this is what we are to be talking about instead of all these charts

02:35:49.080 --> 02:35:54.880
 what the members have said you need to know why I'm on this committee you just need to

02:35:54.880 --> 02:36:00.760
 know I mean all of us so that then we can then understand where we're coming from and

02:36:00.760 --> 02:36:05.800
 I think with knowing those two things and that we start talking and listen to the public

02:36:05.800 --> 02:36:10.640
 more heck that's what we need to do listen to what the public is talking to us about

02:36:10.640 --> 02:36:14.960
 instead of the church so like again like I said I don't follow and I don't see what they

02:36:14.960 --> 02:36:20.800
 have to do what we're doing listen to what the public says and then let us respond to

02:36:20.800 --> 02:36:26.760
 each other like we're doing then we can reach where Jesse is saying that the council wants

02:36:26.760 --> 02:36:34.800
 us to the position that they need us to to communicate with them we are in and lastly

02:36:34.800 --> 02:36:44.720
 we don't we we I'm a rules guy and if I hear you saying we are not really after telling

02:36:44.720 --> 02:36:50.680
 the police that the rules that they're using as far as forces of concern is what they want

02:36:50.680 --> 02:36:55.640
 to hear why in the world are we still talking about it then that's not what they're asking

02:36:55.640 --> 02:37:01.720
 us to communicate to them they want us to say what is the rules and how they're being

02:37:01.720 --> 02:37:07.520
 enforced according to what we think and what do we suggest that we do well we don't need

02:37:07.520 --> 02:37:15.640
 any more charts for that out there Rhonda yes I'd like to ask the chief question about

02:37:15.640 --> 02:37:20.800
 uh is do you have any alternatives when you arrest someone and put them in jail do you

02:37:20.800 --> 02:37:26.640
 have any alternatives to the county which has the covid problem we don't have any alternatives

02:37:26.640 --> 02:37:32.960
 other than holding them at our facility and if they're not going to be able to bond out

02:37:32.960 --> 02:37:38.720
 they have to go over to the county all right thank you I'll just ask a question or say

02:37:38.720 --> 02:37:43.360
 something real quick um as far as the charts Mr. Willie I understand what you're saying

02:37:43.360 --> 02:37:50.960
 but some of us are data analysts and they're very helpful in helping us to work through

02:37:50.960 --> 02:37:55.840
 some of these things I know that all of us have our personal preferences in which way

02:37:55.840 --> 02:38:01.080
 in ways which you know things should be shared but I feel like all of the information that

02:38:01.080 --> 02:38:06.800
 we've been getting up to this point has been helpful for the group as a whole because it's

02:38:06.800 --> 02:38:16.240
 not about one single person Lillian did you have your hand up no I was just I was just

02:38:16.240 --> 02:38:24.640
 agreeing I need the information I need the data me too cameo okay can we adjourn now

02:38:24.640 --> 02:38:39.480
 no let me say I stand corrected I stand corrected well hey I'm just here I stand corrected did

02:38:39.480 --> 02:38:46.920
 we lose the last caller Willie if I were you I would just agree with her right now okay

02:38:46.920 --> 02:38:52.480
 you don't have to agree with us we just offer a different perspective just like you offered

02:38:52.480 --> 02:39:00.440
 a different perspective like okay hey I'm just I'm just subhuman all right just kidding

02:39:00.440 --> 02:39:10.040
 just kidding just kidding don't you forget that you're supposed to love me all right

02:39:10.040 --> 02:39:18.960
 so we're gonna we're gonna adjourn this meeting you guys are being recorded so the last caller

02:39:18.960 --> 02:39:27.640
 didn't hang up yeah okay okay all right well thank you guys we'll see you next next Thursday

02:39:27.640 --> 02:39:32.040
 bye y'all bye good morning everybody