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 Good evening. This is the City of Denton Ad Hoc Committee, the use of force committee for

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 the Denton Police Department in the City of Denton. As we talked about last week, we are

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 going to have a presentation to follow up with some questions that you had last week.

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 We're going to do the first 30 minutes going over the presentation by Assistant Chief Bobby

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 Smith and then we will take calls from the community and we have already received, which

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 you should have been emailed, 40 comments via email. So I'm going to turn it over to

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 Assistant Chief and let him get started on the documentation in the request that you

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 got for last week. Good evening, everybody. This is Bobby Smith,

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 Assistant Chief of Police. It's a pleasure to be back with you tonight. I had some questions

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 from last week. Just wanted to follow up with you. One of the things that came up last week

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 was sort of a breakdown of the city when it comes to demographics. And so this is a chart

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 that we use internally and actually externally. This is the information we send to the Texas

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 Commission on Law Enforcement when we report our traffic stop data for racial profiling

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 purposes. And so this is how we have the city broken down when we send it off. If you look

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 in the middle of the screen there where it says race ethnicity, as you go down, you can

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 see the numbers for the city, including 9.4% for black and African American citizens, 23.9

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 for Hispanic Latino citizens, and 61.8 for our white citizens. There's a couple of asterisks

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 there next to the Hispanic Latino. It's the way it's described is that this is an ethnicity.

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 That Hispanic Latinos may report any race, but we can capture the data based on ethnicity.

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 And I also went back and updated this chart. There was some questions about, we had some

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 unknown not listed. If you remember, there was about 33 cases there that we didn't have

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 cleaned up. I went back and cleaned them up as much as I possibly could, and it did affect

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 the numbers somewhat. We also ended up with a couple of more complaints that were updated

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 in the system when I ran the report. So the number is just a little bit different, but

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 I think this is a pretty good depiction of what we currently have. So you can see out

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 to the side there that 24% of our complaints that are citizen related are from our black

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 citizens, 8% from Hispanic citizens, 63 from our white citizens, 2% from Asian, and we

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 still have some that are unknown. This is a new slide that I have that you didn't see

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 this last week, but I went ahead and showed you what the sustained by race percentage

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 is. And you can see that out of the 51 complaints filed by black citizens, 10 were sustained,

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 which is a 20% sustainment rate, meaning that we did determine that the misconduct occurred,

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 28% for Hispanic, 26% for white, and a small sample size for Asian other, but still 25%.

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 And overall, we have a 25% sustainment rate on our citizen complaints. You also asked

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 for a breakdown of some of the citizen related complaints as far as allegations. And as a

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 suspected courtesy is the is the highest number of allegations when it comes to citizen related

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 complaints with 62 and then unsatisfactory performance with 46, which is off about it's

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 about half and half when it comes to internally and externally generated unsatisfactory performance

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 complaints. And service complaints mentioned this last week, but that's mostly related

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 to performance. And then after that, the numbers dwindled down. We've talked about the use

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 of force. We give you the 14 plus the taser down towards the bottom, which is the 18.

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 And as far as other allegations, there's one here that I'd like to give you a little insight

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 on. If you see where it says body worn cameras, that's those are not complaints that are filed

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 by citizens, but they are directly related to the citizen complaint because what happens

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 in those cases is somebody makes a complaint for for courtesy or unsatisfactory performance.

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 And if the officer was not wearing the body or not utilizing the body worn camera, then

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 we that's a sustained complaint. So it does happen occasionally where the officer either

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 forgets to or doesn't turn the camera on. And I broke down those there's two of its

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 highest allegations just to give you a little more background on it. When it comes to courtesy,

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 which is discourteous behavior, there was a total of 15 filed by our black citizens.

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 We had three filed by Hispanic citizens and 42 by our white citizens. For a total of six

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 to two. What was your questions on that? I thought I heard somebody asking a question.

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 Okay. All right. So this is the same kind of thing. We had a few we had those 46 unsatisfactory

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 performance complaints filed. This is a breakdown of that. I'll just let you look at that for

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 a minute. Yeah, some questions about our training. I did provide you with a little training report

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 that was based on the the actions taken in the complaints that you saw. Those just provided

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 some information in reference to those specific complaints. But in addition to those, we've

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 conducted some deescalation training, we have use of force simulator training coming up,

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 weapons handling skills. We've also had some situations where staff some staff members

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 may have mistreated another staff member in some sort of harassment situation. And we've

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 done human relations training, we brought in an outside trainer for that recently. One

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 of the gentlemen brought up last week about our website involving commendations and complaints.

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 And I told you we were updating that and we did update that with the help of our PIO and

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 one of our PIOs and also public affairs staff put together this just changed up things a

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 little the verbiage is a little bit different. The you can provide the commendations or complaints

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 in English and Spanish, which you could prior to this, it's just a little bit more. It's

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 just a little bit cleaner than it was. And one of the things and I'm going to talk about

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 this in just a few minutes, but there was some concern about being able to address certain

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 demographics in this complaint form. And are we talking about that just a minute right

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 now you can't currently do it, but we wanted to get a little feedback from you before we

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 do that. Also, hopefully you can see this fairly well. I wanted to provide you with

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 a little bit of insight on how complaints work when somebody makes a complaint, whether

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 it's through the internet phone, through a letter or any other means to make a complaint.

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 This is how we make that entry is called blue team. And this is essentially one stop shopping

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 for everything performance related. And including if you look, you can see that list, we have

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 external admin investigation. That's how we code that when a citizen calls in to make

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 a complaint. And then you fill out the information here and then you just go through the screen

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 and fill out all, all the information that's needed. And this is where we actually can

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 include the race and some of the other demographics. And I'll look over there to that. Here is

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 the reporting citizen information. If you look down at the dropdown box, this is, these

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 are the race categories that we have in our system. So if you want to take a look at that,

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 if you have any feedback on that, we, we can change things, we can add things, not necessarily

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 just a race, but apparently we can do it in different ways. So I wanted to show you that

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 because that's, these are the categories that we are using when we make these, these reports.

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 We also had some questions about being able to search by address. I just wanted to show

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 you how this would look. This is an internet based IA pro reporting system. So you can

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 go in there and you're set up. Your data fields are off to your right and there's different

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 types of data fields, but including addresses. I mean, you can search it by street name,

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 by street number, by zip code. And that's really about it. The rest of this stuff doesn't

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 really have much use. We can potentially add things if, if, if folks are interested about

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 certain neighborhoods, every neighborhood is assigned to a sort of a grid number that

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 we can, that we can use. And I'm sure we'd be able to put that in if we needed to. If

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 you want to search by officer information, this is only about half of the screen. Not

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 all this information is, is useful is what I'm finding. In fact, not very much of it

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 is useful, but you know, we have the badge number, the ID number of, of, and the date

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 of birth. So we know exactly how old the officer, we have the education level. So, but mostly

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 we're talking about race, gender, and also assignment, what division they work in, whether

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 it's patrol investigations or sometimes they put in rank. Here's our citizen data. If you

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 look to your right on the screen, you'll see the citizen information. That's about all

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 we have right now. What I'm finding out is, is mostly what we're looking at is again,

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 gender, race, age by date of birth. We can also determine whether or not someone was

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 arrested during, during the incident. And, but what you see there is about what we have

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 right now. And I would encourage you, if you have other things you want us to track or

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 you think as a committee, you think are important, that's something we absolutely entertain and

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 see if we can get that in there. This is our IAPro software. This is a little, this is,

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 it's the same, a lot of the same information, but it's, it's not internet based, but it's

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 very useful, particularly when it comes to use of force tracking. And, you know, spend

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 some time looking through there. You can run reports on all types of uses of force. We

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 can figure out whether or not someone is injured, you know, how many injuries we had, whether

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 it required hospitalization. Of course you can check use of force reports by, by race,

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 by gender. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of ability there to, to check our use

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 of force data. Was there any questions on that, on that information?

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 Did anybody have any questions on the, anything that, Assistant Chief Smith? Yes, Rhonda?

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 This is really more of a point of order probably for you or Sarah, but will we get these slides

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 by email or something? I think they'll be on the website. Oh, okay. Okay, good. Is that

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 correct? Yes, we were also happy to share those with you. Oh, they're on the police

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 force website. Uh huh. Oh, okay, good. I'll find them. Thank you. Oh, really? I just got

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 the, I just saw the complaints. My, my bad. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? So at

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 the last, hey, I am at the last meeting. I know that we had requested some more information

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 about the use of force, the 14, um, incidences. And we had asked for maybe a breakdown of

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 when in the last five years those that have occurred. Um, I know that only three were

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 sustained, but I think one of the questions was, was, was it an internal investigation?

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 Was it an external investigation? Um, was there, I know that, um, the attorney was going

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 to talk and figure out exactly how much information y'all could share legally. Uh, was there any

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 more information that was going to be passed out for that? Yes, ma'am, that this is what

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 we prepared. Uh, can you see that report there on your screen? And this is the information

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 that I felt legally we could release. It doesn't identify the officer involved if he or she

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 wasn't suspended. This was in our email as well, correct? As far as I know it was, but

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 I'll defer to Sarah about that. Yes, this was as well. But I did actually go through

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 and I broke down all 18 cases and I provided a narrative in every case. And maybe I basically

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 gave some details that I thought were important that you might be interested in. I mean, if

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 there's more information that we can share, we will. But as Mike said, there's certain

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 things we can share. Did anybody else have any comments or any

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 additional requests? Okay. Well, we're, thank you very much, um, assistant chief, um, Smith.

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 You're going to go into the calls. Um, so we're going to get them queued up now. I just

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 want you to know that, um, when the calls come in, there is a delay of about three to

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 five seconds. So, so they're going to queue them up and then yes, Ken. Yes, I'm so sorry.

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 I got on a tad bit late, um, because I had another meeting that I was on, but are we,

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 what is the protocol around the calls? They get queued in, we listen, can we ask them

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 questions? Do they ask us questions? Is there like, uh, like, uh, what we're supposed to

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 be able to do around engagement? I'm sorry if I missed that.

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00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,120
 Okay. So they will, they will either have a question or they'll come on and have a comment

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 there. They have four minutes. So you have four minutes per call. I'm not sure how many

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 are queued up or how many will call in, but you can, um, make a comment, um, or, or ask

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 for additional, you know, questions or what have you during the call, but remember they

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 have four minutes and remember there'll be a delay. So in, in, you got a three to five

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 second delay in your calls, but you will be able to say something to them.

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 Yeah. Chair English, if I can add in, um, so the, yes, the committee members may ask

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 questions of clarification, um, to those that are calling in. So if there's something you'd

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 like to, um, ask for further information on or to clarify about what they have said to

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 the committee, um, the committee members are able to do that after they conclude their

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 comment. Sarah, if you could, could, um, does our question,

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 if I was to ask a question or, um, if, uh, any of us were, would it be included in their

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 four minutes or does time stop for us to ask that question and then their time continue?

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 So the speaker has up to four minutes and then upon conclusion of their comment, then

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 the committee members may ask questions for clarification. It does not count as part of

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 their time. So if you could just hang tight, they're

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 going to start getting them on the line. Okay. So we have nine calls that they're queuing

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 up so far and we'll leave the line open in case someone else wants to call in, but so

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 Hi caller. Hi. Who am I speaking with? Um, my name is Kristen Fox and I'm a part of

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 aid network Benton. Okay. And, um, yeah, I'm calling about the ad hoc committee and its

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 role in responding to recent demands to defend the police. Um, I personally believe institutions

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 other than the police should perform many of the functions currently designated to police.

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 Uh, this is one of the main demands of the current national movement and I'm concerned

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 that the use of force committee will function as a way to avoid contending with this demand.

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 Um, I know I not only want less use of force from police, I want less policing period.

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 Um, I want to defund the police and instead fund social services and education. Even as

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 a white woman, I have witnessed racial profiling by the Denton police department firsthand.

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 Several years ago, I was pulled over by a DPD officer for no apparent reason. He refused

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 to take my license and registration and instead demanded the license and registration of my

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 passenger, an indigenous woman who is at work right now and who gave me permission to relay

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 the story. By forcefully demanding her ID, Denton PD insinuated that she did not belong

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 in the country she is indigenous to because of her skin color. Ironically, I myself am

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 the granddaughter of an immigrant and my mother grew up largely outside the U S but of course,

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 I would never be profiled for harassment. I realized defending the police is a long term

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 process that many would rather not engage with despite the fact that many that nights

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 are my point of view. At the very least, I would like consistent and immediate consequences

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 for use of force such as impact on employment, benefit and pensions. I have watched our country

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 spend the last eight plus years trying to reform the police with little success. I watched

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 the city council voted to allocate funds to the facade of the police station rather than

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 adequately address the material needs of tenants during the pandemic. I believe it's the past

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 time to divest from policing and invest in community. Thank you.

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00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:30,440
 Thank you, caller. Okay. The next caller was a question. Yes. Hold on, Willie. The next

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 is Faith. Yes. Hi, Faith. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Faith Sokol and I'm calling today

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 about the ad hoc committee's potential recommendations and its role in policing in Zutton. So the

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 second thing was policing demand solutions that focus on the actual prevention of use

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 of force, not reactions to a vote use of force. We shouldn't have to wait until something

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 tragic happens for the city to react. And we should now make use of force inconvenient

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 for officers to use imprudently. This means consequences for use of force or sorry, improper

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 use of force. I guess I should say concrete impacts on employment, benefits and pensions

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 and swift consequences instead of drawn out internal reviewing. So having spoken to the

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 importance of preventing unreasonable use of force in the first place, I'd like to

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 refer to general order 300 section 2.1 of the police department, you know, general orders.

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 And this is the duty to intercede. This shows out the duty and responsibilities that officers

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 have in intervening and reporting other officers' use of unreasonable force. When offering recommendations

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 for changes to the use of force policy, I ask that specific consequences be outlined

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 in the event that it is found that a fellow officer fails to report and more urgently

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 and perhaps more importantly fails to intervene in an imprudent and unreasonable use of force

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 situation. Thank you. Thank you. Did anyone have anything to say to the caller? Yes. Yes.

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 I just wanted to say thank you for your input and we're doing the best that we can. Okay.

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 Thank you. Yes. I hope we can get a chance to respond after each call. We don't have

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 to wait until the second call. You're still on with the caller. Which one? The second

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 one. Okay. I think that what needs to be said is that there are many statements from the

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 first caller and the second caller that are given as though they're factual. And I beg

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 to differ. I don't think that those are factual statements about what's happening here in

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 the city. And I think they need to be addressed accordingly. If they're not specific to Denton,

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 the city of Denton, then they need to be. Right, of course. But you are asking for stories

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 and the call for feedback, it was specifically stated and I realize it doesn't come from

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 the committee itself. This comes from, you know, I can't remember the name of the organization,

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 what's the organization that the mayor himself signed up for. So I understand. But specific

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 stories were asked for and that's what the first caller provided. But the stories that

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 not Putin are dealing with the city of Denton. You're only on the second call and I assure

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 that the first caller's account did happen in Denton. So I wouldn't dismiss their input

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 or my input because you don't believe that these are relevant to Denton. Right, I don't

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 want to interrupt but I want us as a committee, like people are being vulnerable, calling

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 in and sharing their stories that might be traumatic to them and bad memories possibly.

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 And I want us to like, as a committee, meet people where they are and like believe them

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 for what they're saying if they say that this happened in Denton, then with Denton PD, then

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 we have to take them at their word because that's what we ask people to call here to

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 do. Thank you. And I do want to clarify that the first caller did say that the racial profiling

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 that she witnessed happened in Denton. Definitely. Don't take that, that just that one point

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 that I mentioned. Was it factual? And I guess the second caller saying, well, it's just

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 the way they saw it and I guess you're supporting that, that you if they think it was it happened

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 that way and that's how they felt and we just should take it for that value or the way they

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 said it. Okay, I can do that. But I'm going to preface that with it's the way they saw

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 it. There's no proof to back it up. And I don't think the statement should be made as

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 though it is if they were factual. But I can't accept the fact that that's how they saw it

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 and then move on. Well, thank you. And I think also that's her story. So we're here to listen

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 to their story. And I think there's other stories that are very positive because I've

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 had very, very positive interactions with the Denton police, but we're here to listen

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 to her story. And the first caller has a right to tell her story and the second caller. So

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 I think that's, that's the message that we want to display. So I appreciate the first

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 caller and the second caller's stories, because that's what we're here to listen to. And Willie,

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 I agree with you because I've had very positive interactions as well, but others have not.

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 Thank you, Jamie. I was just going to say that in my opinion, the only space where I

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 am going to choose to comment is if I have a clarification that I feel like will help

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 me to better understand how to take the stories that we are hearing and move them towards

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 some sort of action for this committee. And then I have a comment in regards to the online

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 comments. There were some direct questions, at least as I read them about the committee

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 in terms of how it was formed and things like that. And my suggestion is that if we hear

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 additional questions like those over the audio calls as well, that potentially we could as

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 a committee draft some sort of FAQ. But I personally have made the decision tonight not to really

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 ask any questions or add commentary to the stories that we're hearing so that I can honor

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 and respect what it is that we are taking into. Okay, Camion, Katina, and then Donna.

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 Yeah, I guess I just wanted to add that as a committee, last time we reviewed some of

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 the stuff that was just shown to us about folks making complaints and we uplifted some

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 barriers to folks making complaints in regards to police that we want to address so that

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 they can have an easier time. And I think that as a committee, if we don't choose to

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 accept people's stories for how they are, we're putting additional barriers for people

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 to call in and make their comments about their actual experience around police. So I just

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 wanted to lift that up. So let me clarify this. We are to hear the calls as they come

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 in. If we have questions or I'm sorry that was your experience, hopefully everybody's

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 taking notes if that's something that we want to come back and address at the next meeting.

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 It is not to challenge people as to what their experiences are because we all have different

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 experiences and we all relate to our experiences in different manners. So we're going to end

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 this call and then we're going to go to the next call. And so if we can just do that,

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 we need to ask them for some clarification or anything like that. But this is not an

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 attack on if it did or if it didn't that is their experience, that is their truth. Okay.

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 Thank you, caller. Thank you. Angelica. Hi. Yeah, this is my name is actually Angelica.

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 Yes, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay, not a problem. Thank you for calling. Yeah, absolutely. Um,

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 so I really just, um, so I have a statement prepared, but I kind of want to address the

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 conversation that was surrounding, um, the caller that, uh, that talked before me. Um,

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 and I, I, I do want to say that I agree with Kamiyan that, uh, challenging the callers

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 does create an additional barrier. Um, I know for me that that created feelings of anxiety,

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 um, when, um, the phone started ringing. Um, so I just, I really wanted to uplift with

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 Kamiyan said about that. Um, but I also did not call, um, to display the trauma I've experienced

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 at the hands of police in a public forum. Um, and I think that the conversation that

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 just happened, um, kind of hearkens back to actually what I did have to say, which is

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 that asking this as community of the community without offering support, um, to those who

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 have been traumatized by policing, um, is part of a larger pattern of behavior from

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 Denton PD. Um, when, when they invite communities who historically have contentious relationships

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 with law enforcement to essentially prove that these problems happen in Denton. Um,

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 and I have personally been part of a meeting like this for Denton PD. Um, and, uh, it,

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 it really, uh, was, it created another traumatic experience that I had with police. Um, and

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 I know that it seems the power that he and Denton are committed to believing that our

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 police force doesn't have the same problems. Other police departments do that. Our police

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 force is an exception to the rule that the death of Darius Tarver was an outlier and

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 that we should be thankful that Denton PD is maybe not comprised of the same racist

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 murders that make up other police departments. Um, but I refuse to be grateful for these

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 things from a body of people who claim to protect and serve me. Um, I also want to comment

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 on the fact that the top down nature of the formation and selection of this committee

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 can only mean that no matter how well intentioned, um, many of the members are, it will only

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 ever serve to protect the status quo. Um, and that the limitations of the mission and

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 scope of the committee prevent a conversation about the structural change necessary to truly

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 serve the residents of Denton. Um, because the ad hoc committee exists and this is, and

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 y'all are doing the work of reviewing policy. Um, I, I do have some suggestions, um, and

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 I encourage committee members to ask themselves these questions, um, when making suggestions

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 to policy changes. Um, so one, how does this policy serve the communities most affected

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 by policing? Um, two, how does this policy affect the power of police? And three, will

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 the policy require more funding for police? Um, so that's all that I had to say. Thank

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 you so much. Thank you. Yes, Katina. Thank you so much. And Helica, um, for calling in

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 and I just want to add, if I may, um, you know, positive and negative experiences of

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 the callers. Um, this, this, this forum is not to support or not support the city of

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 Denton police department. This is a larger conversation and I just want to say this,

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 not necessarily to you, um, but just to kind of align to what you were saying. This is

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 not about, I mean, I, I have profound respect for Chief Dixon, but I'm also an African-American

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 woman with African-American children and we have, um, concerns about police brutality.

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 And so I know Pam, you were saying something about some of the calls are positive. And

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 in my mind, um, and I thank you for your comment, but in my mind, it's not about positive or

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 negative because positive, um, is also accountability pat positive sharing stories and, um, being,

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 you know, taking, taking them at face value. Positive is the fact that we're having this

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 civil discourse. Um, it, that positive doesn't just have to be, Oh, I love the Denton PD

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 and they're the greatest. Like that, that's all subjective, um, because it's not about

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 whether we love Denton PD or not or not. It's about the bigger conversation of, um, police

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 excessive force and how our citizens feel. And there are some comments that we've received

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 online that I'm not necessarily happy about, but it's not, this is not about me. This is

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 about the citizens. And though there are going to be many who call in who are not happy and

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 with Denton PD and who also are wanting to speak to the larger conversation of police

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 brutality. That's not just the city limits. So I just wanted to tagline and affirm what

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00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:54,820
 you're saying. Thank you so much, but also tagline to kind of, um, lay out some things

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 as we, the committee are listening, um, and, uh, being a, an ear so that we can truly be

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 a voice for this, for, for our citizens. So thank you. Yes. I stand corrected. Um, and

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00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:30,500
 I will, um, change what I do tonight. I guess what I've heard is that I'm here to listen,

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 not to respond in a questioning or a, a, a way that says, uh, just question, I guess,

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 cause I'm, I'm, my question basically was you were talking like those things that you

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 said are factual and I don't know that they are, but I don't know that they're not. And

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 so I questioned from that standpoint, but what I've heard from the last five people

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 is that, no, we're just here to listen and that's it. So I'll do that, but then I'm on

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 a question. Well, then why am I here on this committee at all? Anybody can sit here and

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 listen, but I'm going to just do that. I will just listen and then I'll decide what I'm

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 going to do about what I've heard later on. So, so I guess my next, uh, I will, I do want

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 to say something to address that is that if it's, if you're looking for facts, um, that

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 research is done, there's decades worth of that research where you can pinpoint, oh,

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 the police do this many arrests to black people versus white people police. I think this many

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 black people versus this many white people are incarcerated. And like that research is

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 done. What is asked from the community today is to share stories. Um, so, so I just also

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 wanted to, to make that comment as well. I have a comment. Go ahead, Donna. Um, this

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 is Donna diamond. Um, I hear you and I'm listening to you as a student, um, at Texas women's

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 university. Um, this is kind of all new to me. And so the point of our committee is to

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 listen to the issues of Denton and to hear it. And if there weren't any issues, we probably

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 wouldn't have this committee in the first place. So we are here and we are listening.

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 Um, and so I, I fully respect what you have to say and what can can Tina, I believe that's

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 right or Tina had to say, um, because all of what she's saying was very much true. Um,

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 but we're just taking it one step out of one step at a time. And we're trying to see what

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 the issues are at hand so that we can come up with a solution. And I do have to agree.

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 Some of the comments were kind of straight because, um, we are, some of us are very new

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 at this and we're just trying to dive into all of these policies and figure out what

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 to do best. Thank you for your time. Yeah, I just wanted to thank Angelica for, um, their

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 comments tonight and, um, uplift what they said around, um, folks having or feeling the

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 need to display their trauma in order to prove that they have had or gone through some issue

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 in regards to law enforcement. Um, and just wanting to mention that I appreciate you bringing

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00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:38,700
 that up and that as a committee member, I will try to see if there's anything we can

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 do for the next time that we might have public comment to support people that are sharing

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 things because not only what you're sharing might be harmful, but some of the people that

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 have called in tonight have possibly had not a great, uh, engagement with their call here.

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 So also supporting the people that have called in and I hope that we can figure out a way

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 to do something to support people the next time. Thank you so much. Thanks, Camille.

347
00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:33,800
 Thank you. Is she on? Okay. Cindy? We're waiting for the next caller.

348
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:48,940
 Hi, caller. Hello. My name is Cindy spoon. I'm calling to give comment. Okay. Okay. Um,

349
00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:52,420
 I guess I'll start by saying, I wish I had longer than four minutes to engage in this

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 conversation. I have a lot to say. I'm going to move through it quickly. I want to start

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 by saying that, um, history really matters. History really matters. And when I walk around

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 Denton, when I walk around Quaker town park, when I enjoy things like jazz fest, uh, going

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 to the library, I have to remind myself like black people used to live here. Black people

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 used to live here and they were violently removed and that history matters. And I think

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 the history of police coming out of slave patrols actually really matters as well. And

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 so I'm asking this committee to, to just sit with those histories and those truths and

357
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 just hold them as y'all make decisions around what is the appropriate use of force. Um,

358
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 I want to also talk about, of course, areas Tarver. I want to ask what reforms y'all

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 are considering that would have resulted in saving his life. Uh, if this committee is

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 not advancing an agenda that results in a different outcome for Darius Tarver, I'm not

361
00:39:50,060 --> 00:39:55,020
 sure it's what we need. I feel when Darius Tarver was killed by DPD and when Ryan McMillan

362
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 was killed by the UNT police, they were both clearly in mental health crisis. And so they

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 didn't need police right then. They needed help. Ryan McMillan was yelling, shoot me,

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 shoot me when a UNT officer shot him. So we need to shift our funding priorities to people

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 that will actually help them. I think we know that so much of policing is about quality

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 of life issues like homelessness, drug addiction, domestic violence. And so I think knowing that

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 increasing funding for things like housing and education, rehabilitation programs, health

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 services, instead of policing and surveillance is what we need to do. I understand this committee

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 is limited in scope, but I just wanted to say that to get to some specific requests.

370
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 Uh, I'd like to see an increase in site and release. I think it's imperative during COVID.

371
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 I know someone that has personally died in the Denton County jail before COVID. Now it's

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 even more dangerous. I saw today that there's 37 positive cases in the County jail. So the

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 police need to be thinking about that and holding that when they're arresting people

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 for low level offenses, that it could be a death sentence if you send them to the Denton

375
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 County jail right now. And, um, you know, jail it's, it's a proven, it's proven that

376
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 jail is a failed way to lower crime and failed way to lower recidivism rates. And I suppose

377
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,820
 those are comments for a different committee. If you aren't dealing with the jail, but I

378
00:41:14,820 --> 00:41:18,420
 would like to see an increase in site and release. And I hope y'all push that on officers.

379
00:41:18,420 --> 00:41:22,900
 I also want to address specifically issues around transparency. I appreciate the presentation

380
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:27,420
 that happened at the beginning of this meeting. And I'd love to ask for some more information.

381
00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:34,260
 Um, so for transparency, I'd love to ask questions about the police union contract, the Brady

382
00:41:34,260 --> 00:41:41,180
 list and what equipment and gear DPD owns that's intended for crowd control. So I'll

383
00:41:41,180 --> 00:41:45,500
 start with the Brady list. The Brady list is for, um, police officers that have lied

384
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:50,220
 under oath or some other misconduct. I'm sure several of the folks on the committee that

385
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:54,260
 have law enforcement backgrounds can explain it better than me, but this is information

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00:41:54,260 --> 00:41:59,100
 that's kept from the public. And I think it should not be. I think both the city police

387
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 and the Denton County police, we should know who's on that Brady list, especially when

388
00:42:03,260 --> 00:42:08,180
 we're seeing officers arresting people at protest or responding to protest. Yeah. Using

389
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 use of force at all. I think one of the things that made the George Floyd murder so horrible

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 is that we know that that officer had just a long list of misconduct. He should have

391
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 maybe not even been on the streets at all. So I'm asking if in this new, like attempts

392
00:42:26,740 --> 00:42:30,340
 to be more transparent and build trust with the community to release officer names on

393
00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:35,500
 the Brady list, if there's any in Denton County, we deserve to know. Um, as far as the contracts

394
00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:40,660
 of police union contracts, um, I know that police unions have kind of unparalleled power

395
00:42:40,660 --> 00:42:45,580
 to shield police from accountability and prevent reform. I know some of you on this committee

396
00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:50,700
 represent the police union. I'm not sure that's appropriate. I don't know any of you personally,

397
00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:55,620
 so it's obviously not personal, but just with the amount of power you already have over

398
00:42:55,620 --> 00:43:00,060
 police policies in Denton, I'm not sure it's appropriate for you to be sitting on the committee.

399
00:43:00,060 --> 00:43:03,900
 Um, I tried to find the police union contract. I couldn't find it. Doesn't mean it's not

400
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:10,100
 there. I found an old one signed by chief Howell from 2015 to 2019. Excuse me. Your

401
00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:17,620
 four minutes is up, ma'am. Okay. Okay. Does anybody have on the committee want to have,

402
00:43:17,620 --> 00:43:24,300
 I think chief Dixon wants to respond to that. I'd like to let it continue. Well, she has

403
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:34,220
 four minutes and she's over her time. You can ask me what I saw in the contract. What

404
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:45,300
 did you see in the contract? Yeah. So, uh, so, uh, so again, this is a contract that

405
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:50,300
 ends in 2019. I assume it hasn't changed that much in 2020, but article five section one

406
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:55,540
 means there's a 180 day rule that a police officer can be held accountable for some kind

407
00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:59,860
 of misconduct or offense or complaint. I would like to see that taken out. I don't know why

408
00:43:59,860 --> 00:44:04,900
 we would limit ourselves to like regarding use of force. Why, how long someone can be

409
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:09,380
 held accountable for it's 180 days. That's an article five, section one and section two

410
00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:14,740
 of that same article is that there's a five day maximum suspension. And I also don't know

411
00:44:14,740 --> 00:44:19,540
 if that's appropriate. A five day maximum. If somebody maybe had to pull a gun or a taser

412
00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:24,500
 or something, maybe both of those are not long enough. Uh, article eight, section three

413
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:30,020
 mentions that officers get paid at least three hours when they have to go to court and like

414
00:44:30,020 --> 00:44:33,820
 give testimony that they get paid to do that and they're off. So I'm not sure if that's

415
00:44:33,820 --> 00:44:39,100
 appropriate either. I would love to ask that the public is allowed to be involved more

416
00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:43,100
 in those contract negotiations. And the very last thing I will say, and I will give my

417
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:47,920
 time is about the equipment and gear that Denton police own. I'd love to know for crowd

418
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,520
 control purposes. Do y'all have tanks? Do y'all have pure gas? Do y'all have Elrad?

419
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,180
 Like what are we, should we expect to see when we are protesting? Those are the ends

420
00:44:57,180 --> 00:45:06,340
 of my comments. Thank you. Chief Dixon. Good evening committee. I'll try to hit all those

421
00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:12,760
 points. Hopefully I don't miss any. There is no five day maximum for any discipline

422
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:18,780
 for me to give out the 180 day rule. We went over that last week with Mr. Cronin explained

423
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:23,620
 to you that law that's not in the contract only that's a state law. We actually have

424
00:45:23,620 --> 00:45:31,240
 up to 240 days to discover it, 180 to do it. So we actually have 420, which is a lot longer

425
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:37,220
 than 180 that's in statute. That provision of the contract actually gives us a lot longer

426
00:45:37,220 --> 00:45:45,660
 time than we would if we didn't have it. We don't have any tanks. And what you can expect

427
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:50,300
 to see at the protest is what you've seen at the protest thus far. You've seen police

428
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:56,180
 officers out there in their regular patrol uniform walking about keeping you safe. They've

429
00:45:56,180 --> 00:46:02,360
 been out talking to people, having dialogue with people. They've been very approachable

430
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:09,900
 to this point. We haven't had to use any riot control gear. We do have riot control gear

431
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:14,260
 if we need it, but it's only going to be brought out if we need it. But there's going to be

432
00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:21,900
 a reason why we would bring that out. I'm trying to remember all the questions. Brady

433
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:27,320
 list. The Brady list is not controlled by the police department or the sheriff is controlled

434
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,300
 by the district attorney's office. Oftentimes as a chief of police, I don't even know who's

435
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:38,940
 on the Brady list and it's not out there to be displayed. That's at the discretion of

436
00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:43,600
 the district attorney for each county in this state. So the police department, the sheriff's

437
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:55,020
 office has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Did I get all the points for all the questions?

438
00:46:55,020 --> 00:47:02,900
 Can I ask a question, Cheryl? What is the riot control gear if you had to use it, chief?

439
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:09,900
 We have helmets for protection. We have riot control sticks and we have shield, fiberglass

440
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:15,900
 shields. If we need it, we would have less lethal munitions. We would have controlled

441
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:18,500
 gas, chemical munitions.

442
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:29,440
 I just wanted to thank the caller for participating and I do want to just offer a point of clarification

443
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:35,300
 that this is a city organized committee. So you made some very valid points about the

444
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:41,940
 county and about, as chief Dixon pointed out, the district attorney. This committee does

445
00:47:41,940 --> 00:47:48,500
 not have any purview in those areas, but I appreciate those comments.

446
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:51,980
 Yeah, that makes sense to me. It's hard to ignore the relationship of the people that

447
00:47:51,980 --> 00:47:54,780
 the Denton police arrest end up in Denton County Jail.

448
00:47:54,780 --> 00:47:55,780
 Lillian.

449
00:47:55,780 --> 00:48:01,340
 Yeah, I was just going to say that very thing. So she talked about the site and release.

450
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:04,740
 Chief Dixon, do you have anything to say about that?

451
00:48:04,740 --> 00:48:08,340
 Absolutely. We went into a modified posture to the beginning of the pandemic and we're

452
00:48:08,340 --> 00:48:14,280
 still in it. We're not arresting for classy offenses if we can help it. We're not arresting

453
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:20,780
 for low level marijuana possession as well. If there's not a mitigating circumstance around

454
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:25,860
 it, we can't release someone to a responsible party. There's a violent offense associated

455
00:48:25,860 --> 00:48:31,820
 with it. We still have to make those arrests. We can't leave people on the street. And we're

456
00:48:31,820 --> 00:48:35,820
 working towards, I have been one of the biggest proponents of doing site and release since

457
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:40,820
 I got here. I've talked to a number of different organizations and we're working towards that

458
00:48:40,820 --> 00:48:45,100
 goal. But that's not a singular goal. It's not something that I as the chief can just

459
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:49,660
 summarily say we're going to do it and we go off. There's a lot of moving parts to it

460
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:55,180
 and we're working for that process now. So I'm hopeful that we'll get it.

461
00:48:55,180 --> 00:48:58,420
 I really appreciate that response. And I do want to say that some people are slipping

462
00:48:58,420 --> 00:49:01,340
 through the cracks because I have recently connected with a woman that's in Denton County

463
00:49:01,340 --> 00:49:05,980
 Jail on a PI and she's been there for over 20 something days and she's contracted COVID

464
00:49:05,980 --> 00:49:11,180
 there. I called her lawyer today. I'm waiting for them to get back to me. But I'm just like,

465
00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:14,900
 I agree with you and I appreciate you pushing for site and release. And also that is also

466
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:18,260
 true. And they were arrested by city police.

467
00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:33,980
 I wanted to thank Cindy for her comments and I wanted to just uplift all of the things

468
00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:39,960
 that she mentioned. I think one of the things that we're finding is citizens of Denton and

469
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,820
 people that live in Denton don't know which things are county and which things are DA

470
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:49,980
 and which things are DPD. And I think that that's something that we should maybe talk

471
00:49:49,980 --> 00:49:55,060
 about making more clear like the transparency around that so that people understand where

472
00:49:55,060 --> 00:49:58,700
 they're trying to report, who they're trying to report to, where they need to seek information

473
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:07,700
 from. And I heard Chief Dixon mentioned that around the riot gear there's less lethal things

474
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:11,300
 that you can use, but you didn't explain exactly what those were. And then after that you said

475
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:18,100
 tear gas. So it's just wondering like, what is less lethal? Exactly what you're talking

476
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:21,940
 about and then you mentioned tear gas. So it's whatever was right before that.

477
00:50:21,940 --> 00:50:29,860
 Absolutely. Less lethal munitions are munitions that are usually made out of foam or rubber

478
00:50:29,860 --> 00:50:38,500
 plastic that are not meant to cause serious injury, but to cause pain, pain compliance.

479
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:44,920
 But we have not used anything to this point. We don't plan on using anything. I think it

480
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,620
 speaks to the volume of our city on how we have conducted ourselves, both the police

481
00:50:49,620 --> 00:50:55,720
 department and those that out having their voices being heard.

482
00:50:55,720 --> 00:51:00,580
 And would you mind clarifying when the next police union contract will be negotiated,

483
00:51:00,580 --> 00:51:03,340
 the timeline?

484
00:51:03,340 --> 00:51:16,060
 Time in 22, 23, is it 22 or 23? I think we saw that last week, I believe it's 2022.

485
00:51:16,060 --> 00:51:20,940
 I just held up my finger because it's every three years. Current contract actually expires

486
00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:31,140
 in 2022. September 30th of 2022. And I think the city manager probably anticipates going

487
00:51:31,140 --> 00:51:37,080
 back to the table in the probably spring or summer of 2022.

488
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,100
 Okay. Rhonda?

489
00:51:39,100 --> 00:51:47,700
 I have a question for the chief about the less lethal forms of ammunition, rubber bullets,

490
00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:53,100
 et cetera. Do you, Chief Dixon, have to give permission for that to be used or is that

491
00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:54,700
 left up to the officer?

492
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:58,100
 No, that comes from me.

493
00:51:58,100 --> 00:52:02,060
 Thank you.

494
00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:28,540
 Thank you. Caller. Thank you. We have another caller. Okay. Hi. Hi. You're on. This is

495
00:52:28,540 --> 00:52:39,260
 Nadalia Sauceda. She, her, hers. I serve on two executive boards here in Denton that focus

496
00:52:39,260 --> 00:52:44,220
 work on the queer and trans community. I'm also a psychologist at UNT and a mental health

497
00:52:44,220 --> 00:52:52,060
 advocate. I, there has been a lot of great comments and I may have questions that show

498
00:52:52,060 --> 00:52:58,940
 up in my statement, so please disregard if they've already been addressed. There's been

499
00:52:58,940 --> 00:53:04,340
 some great comments so far. I do want to express appreciation to the committee. I see a lot

500
00:53:04,340 --> 00:53:11,300
 of organizations and advocates that I've worked alongside with and have appreciated the free

501
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:18,820
 labor that they have done for, this is an already very taxed group of folks and I can

502
00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:25,100
 only imagine. I have a quick question for that. I was wondering if the committee themselves

503
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:30,780
 have an opportunity to disclose their incidences as well. I agree this is very traumatic to

504
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:37,780
 be telling folks their experiences if they do have incidences, but I've, I've wondered

505
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:44,820
 if at any point the committee would be able to tell their, their stories as well. My main

506
00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:50,260
 concern though as a mental, as a mental health provider, I believe my concerns for the Denton

507
00:53:50,260 --> 00:53:58,420
 PD grew after the killing of Darius Tarver and I know that we're all learning in regards

508
00:53:58,420 --> 00:54:07,540
 to policy and procedure, the role of police and local government and this has been quite

509
00:54:07,540 --> 00:54:13,060
 a process to, to try to understand everyone's role and everyone's part in being able to

510
00:54:13,060 --> 00:54:19,140
 be better and do better. I will say in my nearly 15 years of clinical training and practice

511
00:54:19,140 --> 00:54:25,540
 I, I, no one's ever told me why I have been encouraged to contact local police in the event

512
00:54:25,540 --> 00:54:35,140
 of a mental health or medical crisis or distress. I, since Darius Tarver and, and even before

513
00:54:35,140 --> 00:54:41,460
 I would, I would say my own clients, students and other mental health professionals have

514
00:54:41,460 --> 00:54:46,740
 expressed hesitancy to contact the police when they're concerned for themselves or a

515
00:54:46,740 --> 00:54:57,100
 loved one in regards to suicide or a, a psychotic incident. I've had my own clients reject recommendations

516
00:54:57,100 --> 00:55:03,580
 for hospitalization triage because of my, regardless of my current agency's protocol

517
00:55:03,580 --> 00:55:12,260
 for police transport. I was reasonably aware that there's plans for a mental health division

518
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:19,740
 and I've, I'm, I don't know what the ad hoc committee involvement is with that or any

519
00:55:19,740 --> 00:55:26,820
 input from mental health professionals and, and the disability community in regards to,

520
00:55:26,820 --> 00:55:34,060
 to the use of force with those populations. But I, I'm, it has evoked a lot of concern

521
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:40,780
 for me, the further criminalization of folks who live with mental health issues. I think

522
00:55:40,780 --> 00:55:49,340
 the current approach just, just confirms this disconnect with the community and it feels

523
00:55:49,340 --> 00:55:55,060
 very reactionary and I'm, I'm still trying to understand the overlap of my profession

524
00:55:55,060 --> 00:56:00,300
 with police. And I'm, I'm kind of doing my own searching on that, but still don't understand

525
00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:08,860
 why we must do a, create a division to detract from further community support and funding

526
00:56:08,860 --> 00:56:14,860
 from other institutions. I've wondered how this impacts MHMR mobile crisis unit. And

527
00:56:14,860 --> 00:56:19,500
 I'm wondering if the committee has, has reviewed or plans to review the Darius Harbor case

528
00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:26,100
 and use of force during medical and mental health distress have been my main concerns.

529
00:56:26,100 --> 00:56:33,660
 So that's what I wanted to say. And some of, some of the things I've been hearing from

530
00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:36,660
 my community.

531
00:56:36,660 --> 00:56:51,380
 Okay. Does anybody want to respond? Yes, Travis. Okay. So I just want to kind of add a comment

532
00:56:51,380 --> 00:57:00,860
 to that. So as a police officer, it, we, I'm in the community for the community, you know,

533
00:57:00,860 --> 00:57:07,100
 we overlooked the fact that when you are in an active situation and someone may have a

534
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:12,180
 weapon or whatnot, they don't come out with a sign that says, I'm experiencing a mental

535
00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:18,180
 health crisis. So that's kind of a situation that you put in as an officer. You know, I

536
00:57:18,180 --> 00:57:22,940
 don't know that this person may be suffering some kind of crisis. I don't know that. And

537
00:57:22,940 --> 00:57:29,980
 the moment of the active situation as an officer, you have to address that immediate situation.

538
00:57:29,980 --> 00:57:36,540
 And I think a lot of times we overlook that it doesn't, it doesn't come out until after

539
00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:42,500
 the situation has been resolved, then we may find out, Oh, the person may have, you know,

540
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:47,100
 had some kind of mental situations they were going through some kind of mental crisis.

541
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:52,620
 So, you know, it's kind of a double edged sword, you know, at the same time. And a lot

542
00:57:52,620 --> 00:57:58,180
 of times, often the community is the one that calls the police out because someone is experiencing

543
00:57:58,180 --> 00:58:04,980
 some kind of crisis. So we have to also look on that side as far as, you know, what is

544
00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:09,740
 it that you want the police to do? How do you want the police to respond? Myself personally,

545
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:16,740
 I've responded to several, several people experiencing some kind of mental crisis. And

546
00:58:16,740 --> 00:58:24,060
 oftentimes, MHMR has rejected to come out and help the person. And then the situation

547
00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:29,900
 may become more, you know, the, the person may become more agitated and the situation

548
00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:36,460
 may increase and you know, whatever the case is, but you know, as a police officer, I don't,

549
00:58:36,460 --> 00:58:39,980
 I don't know that, I don't know that this person is necessarily experiencing some kind

550
00:58:39,980 --> 00:58:45,820
 of crisis. So I just want everyone to, you know, consider that, you know, as we deal

551
00:58:45,820 --> 00:58:48,300
 with our, you know, go through our daily job functions.

552
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:55,140
 So it sounds like, sounds like we need different resources other than the police. That's what

553
00:58:55,140 --> 00:58:56,140
 I'm hearing.

554
00:58:56,140 --> 00:59:00,500
 Yeah. I was, I was going to uplift that. Thank you for your comments. And Adelia, I was going

555
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:06,780
 to uplift that what you're sharing, Travis, to me, when a caller is calling in and asking

556
00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:12,180
 about how we can better serve folks with mental health issues, knowing that police are responding

557
00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:17,940
 and not being able to tell if someone's in a mental health crisis or what they, how they

558
00:59:17,940 --> 00:59:24,440
 might need to respond is an issue that we should be addressing and maybe they need support

559
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,180
 or maybe they might not should be the ones that are responding to some of those. I also

560
00:59:29,180 --> 00:59:37,700
 wanted to uplift your comments around use of force policies that we're reviewing with

561
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:42,380
 folks that might have disabilities or mental health issues. The committee has questions

562
00:59:42,380 --> 00:59:47,500
 around how we serve those populations, but I can share with you from what I remember

563
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:52,820
 and someone please correct me on the committee if I'm incorrect, that the use of force policies

564
00:59:52,820 --> 01:00:02,200
 that we were shown by during this committee in a presentation didn't break it down by

565
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:07,620
 anything around individualized care. Like it's not broken down by what that person is experiencing.

566
01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:14,980
 It's just like around if an officer feels as if use of force is needed, they can utilize

567
01:00:14,980 --> 01:00:20,300
 it based on certain criteria. It's not broken down around mental health or people with disabilities

568
01:00:20,300 --> 01:00:25,520
 or age or race or anything like that as far as I can remember.

569
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:30,540
 Pam? Well, and I wanted to say too, when the call

570
01:00:30,540 --> 01:00:36,900
 comes in, we work with the police department because I'm with the mental health and so

571
01:00:36,900 --> 01:00:42,060
 we work with Chief Dixon and his officers and they do know when it's the mental health

572
01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:48,100
 call. So unless they're called directly to the scene and they don't know that it's a

573
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:54,620
 mental health call or somebody with autism. So I think that's the difference that there

574
01:00:54,620 --> 01:01:03,260
 may be going to a scene and we're not involved and that can happen. And many times obviously

575
01:01:03,260 --> 01:01:08,900
 possibly it does happen. And then they're blind when they go in. But when we go together

576
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:15,780
 to the scene, they know that it's obviously a mental health situation. So it's handled

577
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:18,660
 a little differently. Go ahead. Thank you, Cheryl.

578
01:01:18,660 --> 01:01:23,820
 Katina? Thank you so much, caller, for sharing. And

579
01:01:23,820 --> 01:01:31,980
 I was just thinking through some things because I think that what we don't discuss often times

580
01:01:31,980 --> 01:01:37,260
 is civilians and our responsibility and how we engage and how we call the police. And

581
01:01:37,260 --> 01:01:43,820
 I brought this issue up before because we talked, when we had the training last week,

582
01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:47,660
 I can't remember what the name of the training was, but where we basically did the assimilation.

583
01:01:47,660 --> 01:01:53,420
 Oh, the use of force. Yes. And so one of the things that I've heard

584
01:01:53,420 --> 01:02:00,460
 repeatedly is oftentimes there's miscommunication between the caller and the 911 person and

585
01:02:00,460 --> 01:02:07,740
 then what happens in dispatch. And police officers rely heavily on, I mean, they have

586
01:02:07,740 --> 01:02:12,740
 to rely on information being accurate. And I think that we have such a fear mongering

587
01:02:12,740 --> 01:02:18,620
 culture for one. People are prone to call the police on black people or anything that

588
01:02:18,620 --> 01:02:24,460
 they think as other. And I think that we need to increase accountability for people just

589
01:02:24,460 --> 01:02:29,180
 calling the police for everything because the police aren't here to protect and serve,

590
01:02:29,180 --> 01:02:34,340
 but they are not our personal, you know, little pocket badges that we can just whip out to

591
01:02:34,340 --> 01:02:41,980
 call when we are agitated or when we're angry or when the wrong person is in our neighborhood.

592
01:02:41,980 --> 01:02:48,620
 I think that, you know, really equipping civilians on how to call 911 and offering training across

593
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:54,500
 the board, because as officer Nicholas was saying, like, they don't know sometimes and

594
01:02:54,500 --> 01:02:59,900
 they're going off of information that they got, and they're trying to rely on that, but

595
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:04,780
 they're walking into a dangerous situation, which I can totally, potentially dangerous

596
01:03:04,780 --> 01:03:11,160
 situation which I can totally identify with or respect. And the thing is, is if a mental

597
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:17,180
 health issue is happening, people need to be responsible to say that and to, you know,

598
01:03:17,180 --> 01:03:22,740
 express that. And the 911 operators need to be, you know, held accountable for sharing

599
01:03:22,740 --> 01:03:28,660
 that information. But civilians need to have, be responsible. If they're weaponizing the

600
01:03:28,660 --> 01:03:33,900
 police, if they're, you know, leaving out information, if it's based on fear mongering,

601
01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:37,660
 they need to be flagged, they need to be fined, and if it gets to that point, they need to

602
01:03:37,660 --> 01:03:43,660
 go to jail. Like, it needs to be put back on civilians who think that it's okay to weaponize

603
01:03:43,660 --> 01:03:46,340
 the police against other people.

604
01:03:46,340 --> 01:03:53,060
 Right. And you're right, there is, and we know that there are certain people who are

605
01:03:53,060 --> 01:04:03,180
 privileged to empathy from others. And I wonder where this education and training and citizens,

606
01:04:03,180 --> 01:04:10,140
 you know, the ability to destigmatize mental health and everything else to help us help

607
01:04:10,140 --> 01:04:17,700
 each other. I don't know if that belongs under the umbrella of policing. Chief Dixon, that

608
01:04:17,700 --> 01:04:19,740
 would be something different.

609
01:04:19,740 --> 01:04:25,700
 Yeah, I want to make sure that that I'm being very clear. There's not a police officer on

610
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:30,620
 this call, listening or watching that wants to be the primary responder to mental health

611
01:04:30,620 --> 01:04:37,220
 crisis. There's not. That's a fact. If I could stop my police officers from going to calls

612
01:04:37,220 --> 01:04:43,680
 with mental illness right now, I would stop it. The sad fact is there is no other option

613
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:49,140
 in this moment. So the creation of this mental health unit to pair up a licensed social worker

614
01:04:49,140 --> 01:04:56,300
 with a police officer is by far the best option we have on the table as we sit here today.

615
01:04:56,300 --> 01:05:00,620
 They can go to mental health training together. The counselors are obviously going to have

616
01:05:00,620 --> 01:05:07,100
 more experience in dealing with mental illness than our police officers are. But my hope

617
01:05:07,100 --> 01:05:12,660
 and the hope of every police officer out there across this country is that we do get to the

618
01:05:12,660 --> 01:05:19,900
 place one day where cops are not the answer for everything. We work with fans, people

619
01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:26,820
 every day at MHMR, but that's not the answer. It's not always the easy answer. There's too

620
01:05:26,820 --> 01:05:32,500
 many options out there when police officers go out to these calls where people can decline

621
01:05:32,500 --> 01:05:39,260
 to come out to help the person in crisis. And then that's why the county jail ends up

622
01:05:39,260 --> 01:05:44,060
 being the number one mental health consumer in Dayton County. Because if it's up to the

623
01:05:44,060 --> 01:05:49,940
 police officer to let somebody go that's in crisis or take them to jail to keep them safe,

624
01:05:49,940 --> 01:05:56,140
 they're taking them to jail. That, again, is just a sad fact. Until we collectively

625
01:05:56,140 --> 01:06:02,940
 as a society put more emphasis on mental health treatment, bed space, facilities, we're going

626
01:06:02,940 --> 01:06:08,580
 to be here where we're at right now. So we've got to work together. And nobody here is against

627
01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:16,420
 working with whatever we have to do to make sure everyone goes home safe.

628
01:06:16,420 --> 01:06:18,820
 Jamie?

629
01:06:18,820 --> 01:06:23,620
 I just wondered if Pam, you might be willing I hate to put you on the spot, but to speak

630
01:06:23,620 --> 01:06:29,740
 about the situations where MHMR is called first and often relies on the police to go

631
01:06:29,740 --> 01:06:34,380
 into homes in situations where they might feel unsafe without support. Because I feel

632
01:06:34,380 --> 01:06:39,700
 like that's part of this issue that hasn't been discussed.

633
01:06:39,700 --> 01:06:44,180
 And I think, you know, that was part of the issue that I was sitting here thinking because

634
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:49,260
 many times we can't go in without the police because we don't know the person. It's a very

635
01:06:49,260 --> 01:06:57,020
 unsafe situation. We don't know that if there's weapons in the home and we can't go in without

636
01:06:57,020 --> 01:07:03,740
 the police. So it's very difficult for us because to go in, the person is actively psychotic

637
01:07:03,740 --> 01:07:10,460
 or we don't know what else is, you know, what the situation will bring for our clinicians

638
01:07:10,460 --> 01:07:17,020
 and we have to have the police on scene. So many times, you know, Chief Dixon's police

639
01:07:17,020 --> 01:07:22,460
 officers, I don't know how many times have saved our staff, literally, and they have

640
01:07:22,460 --> 01:07:29,580
 to be on scene. And then we will call for mental health deputies. Well, there are times

641
01:07:29,580 --> 01:07:34,500
 that the mental health deputies don't think that the person meets the criteria for apprehension

642
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:41,480
 and detention and they won't come out. So Chief Dixon's police officers are the only

643
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:49,580
 people there that can help us in that situation. So that's another glitch that happens and

644
01:07:49,580 --> 01:07:56,940
 Chief Dixon can attest to that many times. And that person, again, as Chief Dixon said,

645
01:07:56,940 --> 01:08:01,540
 they can either go to jail or they can remain in the situation because they have to be either

646
01:08:01,540 --> 01:08:06,860
 a danger to themselves or others to meet the criteria to have their civil liberties taken

647
01:08:06,860 --> 01:08:14,020
 away. And the mental health professional cannot take their civil liberties away. A police

648
01:08:14,020 --> 01:08:19,140
 officer or mental health deputy is the only person that can do that. We are not qualified

649
01:08:19,140 --> 01:08:26,900
 to do that. Not in Texas, correct. Right. And other states can. Right, but not here.

650
01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:35,300
 There's a lot that happens before that phone call that our officers do and that don't have

651
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:40,420
 to take people's rights away. And you can hear Pam mention, like, that is the length

652
01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:45,900
 that we have to get to. And those are extreme points, of course. And there's options way

653
01:08:45,900 --> 01:08:54,020
 before. So many points in that story of that person's journey that we could be funding.

654
01:08:54,020 --> 01:08:58,500
 So I'm still wrapping my brain around this concept and hope you all could follow me on

655
01:08:58,500 --> 01:09:04,620
 that same train of thinking of, like, is this the only option? What other options along

656
01:09:04,620 --> 01:09:10,260
 the way to be helping our community? So I appreciate y'all joining me on that line.

657
01:09:10,260 --> 01:09:20,060
 All right. Thank you, caller. I want to let you guys know we have people who have been

658
01:09:20,060 --> 01:09:24,620
 on call up to 40 minutes. So I know everybody wants to kind of jump in, but we got to kind

659
01:09:24,620 --> 01:09:31,580
 of move this along so everybody has an opportunity to get their call in and make their comment.

660
01:09:31,580 --> 01:09:46,860
 Okay. Good evening, caller. Hi there. Hi. Is this Michael? It is. Hi, Michael. You have

661
01:09:46,860 --> 01:09:52,140
 a comment you want to make? Yes. Yes, I do. I'm going to go quick. I want to introduce

662
01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:57,380
 myself. I am Michael Mutz. I'm 25 years old. I have an associate's in criminal justice,

663
01:09:57,380 --> 01:10:01,980
 a bachelor's in psychology and communications, and I'm currently working on a doctorate of

664
01:10:01,980 --> 01:10:06,620
 education. I find myself to be a little bit unique because I'm a journalist, but I'm also

665
01:10:06,620 --> 01:10:13,500
 a behavior therapist. I work as a behavior technician and I've also worked at two mental

666
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:20,460
 hospitals in the DFW community, including Mayhill Hospital here in Denton. I'm a little

667
01:10:20,460 --> 01:10:23,620
 bit different than the other callers that have spoken in the sense that I do believe

668
01:10:23,620 --> 01:10:27,620
 that there are some issues with the police department, but I don't think defunding the

669
01:10:27,620 --> 01:10:32,580
 police is the option. I think that there needs to be more training and there needs to be

670
01:10:32,580 --> 01:10:41,820
 more education along lines of information. I'll tell you this. In the last six months,

671
01:10:41,820 --> 01:10:46,580
 I was assaulted by my roommate. I was punched in the face. And in order to get out of my

672
01:10:46,580 --> 01:10:51,540
 apartment lease, I needed a copy of the police report to send to them. It took the police

673
01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:58,460
 department and the records department 14 days to get back to me after I was assaulted. Now

674
01:10:58,460 --> 01:11:04,020
 during those 14 days, after the 14 days were over, it was 10 business days, but 14 with

675
01:11:04,020 --> 01:11:08,660
 the two weekends. After the end of that period, I got a letter from the city stating that

676
01:11:08,660 --> 01:11:13,460
 they were withholding the records because my roommate has the right to keep his information

677
01:11:13,460 --> 01:11:19,220
 private. And they're sending a letter to the office of the attorney general about getting

678
01:11:19,220 --> 01:11:23,740
 a basically determination on whether or not they can release that information to me. I

679
01:11:23,740 --> 01:11:27,700
 think that it's important also to note that I called the police department to get information

680
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:32,500
 about the use of force before this meeting and was told to file a public information

681
01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:38,660
 act request to get certain information, which again would take up to 10 business days. So

682
01:11:38,660 --> 01:11:42,980
 I think that it's important to note that it's hard to get information. If you were to go

683
01:11:42,980 --> 01:11:47,100
 to the Denton training police department or the Denton police department training website

684
01:11:47,100 --> 01:11:51,620
 this last week that is on the website, five out of five times I tried to pull up the website,

685
01:11:51,620 --> 01:11:55,660
 it was down. And I have screenshots of those if you guys would like to see them later.

686
01:11:55,660 --> 01:12:00,540
 I think that, you know, we can talk about politics all day long, we can talk about things

687
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:05,220
 that are happening across the country. But in reality, what we need is information from

688
01:12:05,220 --> 01:12:09,620
 the police department at the local level. And we're struggling to get that information

689
01:12:09,620 --> 01:12:14,180
 because it takes weeks for the records department to get back to us. And then they're trying

690
01:12:14,180 --> 01:12:20,340
 to exempt information. It takes having to fight and advocate for that information. I've

691
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:25,140
 seen more information tonight in this meeting than I can get as a community citizen about

692
01:12:25,140 --> 01:12:31,060
 our police department, about the, you know, district attorney's office. I couldn't personally

693
01:12:31,060 --> 01:12:36,620
 file a request for a protective order because I couldn't get the police department to give

694
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:41,580
 me the record that I needed in order to file that report. That is absolutely astounding.

695
01:12:41,580 --> 01:12:45,980
 And when we're talking about use of force, let's talk about escalations. When it takes

696
01:12:45,980 --> 01:12:52,460
 the police department to two hours to respond to a domestic violence call, when it takes,

697
01:12:52,460 --> 01:12:57,780
 you know, my roommate, I have a recording of my roommate telling me to kill myself and

698
01:12:57,780 --> 01:13:02,100
 the police department can't arrest him. And then, you know, you come into a situation

699
01:13:02,100 --> 01:13:06,540
 where there's a fight and the use of force is escalated. Well, that's happening because

700
01:13:06,540 --> 01:13:10,580
 we can't get information because we can't file for protective orders because they won't

701
01:13:10,580 --> 01:13:17,940
 release the information to us. We can't get this information to file the appropriate paperwork.

702
01:13:17,940 --> 01:13:22,700
 It's a catch 22. And then the police officer comes into a heightened situation because

703
01:13:22,700 --> 01:13:27,660
 they refuse to let us start it at the basic level. It escalates so far that it turns into

704
01:13:27,660 --> 01:13:33,220
 a fight. You know, and I'll say this too, the mental health side of things isn't doing

705
01:13:33,220 --> 01:13:41,580
 much better either. I worked at Mayhill hospital and they, there is no mental health going

706
01:13:41,580 --> 01:13:45,580
 on there. I filed a report with the Department of Health and Human Services against them

707
01:13:45,580 --> 01:13:50,820
 for abusing their patients. There was a time where I saw a patient who basically asked

708
01:13:50,820 --> 01:13:54,940
 water and they were told, the patient was told he couldn't have water until after dinner.

709
01:13:54,940 --> 01:13:57,620
 That was six hours that the patient couldn't have water.

710
01:13:57,620 --> 01:14:07,020
 Michael, Michael, you've gone over your four minutes. Okay. Anyone have any questions?

711
01:14:07,020 --> 01:14:16,620
 Yes, Katrina. I've worked in healthcare administration for about 20 years and I just want to affirm

712
01:14:16,620 --> 01:14:22,380
 the things that you're saying. And thank you so much for sharing everything that you shared.

713
01:14:22,380 --> 01:14:31,060
 It really meant a lot and I'm a healthcare advocate, and so I'm with you 100%.

714
01:14:31,060 --> 01:14:32,980
 Thank you. Thank you.

715
01:14:32,980 --> 01:14:39,660
 Camion. Yes, I wanted to say thank you so much, Michael,

716
01:14:39,660 --> 01:14:46,500
 for sharing this information. I am a social worker with a clinical license and I've worked

717
01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:52,140
 at University of Behavioral Health. So I completely understand a lot of the things that you mentioned.

718
01:14:52,140 --> 01:15:01,300
 I did want to say thank you so much for sharing the information around trying to get a protective

719
01:15:01,300 --> 01:15:07,700
 order and uplifting things that might be domestic in nature in which police are called out to

720
01:15:07,700 --> 01:15:15,180
 and how sometimes those situations don't always support the person that might be being harmed.

721
01:15:15,180 --> 01:15:32,740
 Thank you. Thank you.

722
01:15:32,740 --> 01:15:38,340
 Looks like Jamie has a question. Hi, Jamie.

723
01:15:38,340 --> 01:15:42,380
 If we've already switched to the other caller, it's not relevant, but I was going to ask

724
01:15:42,380 --> 01:15:47,820
 him if there was information he was seeking in his public information request that would

725
01:15:47,820 --> 01:15:52,020
 be relevant. We've already gone to the next caller. I'm

726
01:15:52,020 --> 01:15:55,820
 sorry. Hi, is Samuel?

727
01:15:55,820 --> 01:15:58,140
 Yes. Hi.

728
01:15:58,140 --> 01:16:01,940
 Hi, may I begin? Yes.

729
01:16:01,940 --> 01:16:09,140
 Hi, my name is Samuel Escalante. My zip code is 76209. I'm a teacher and I'm also a published

730
01:16:09,140 --> 01:16:14,860
 researcher on issues of race. First, I want to thank the committee for this

731
01:16:14,860 --> 01:16:18,820
 work and their labor. I do appreciate their time and everything they're putting into it

732
01:16:18,820 --> 01:16:24,380
 and the fact that these are really hard conversations. So I may bring up stuff that makes some folks

733
01:16:24,380 --> 01:16:29,980
 uncomfortable and this is kind of the point. So I appreciate folks being open, vulnerable

734
01:16:29,980 --> 01:16:34,380
 from all sides and giving us the time and consideration it needs.

735
01:16:34,380 --> 01:16:38,500
 Okay, but before you get started, Samuel, let me let you know you have four minutes,

736
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:41,780
 right? Yes, I have a prepared statement.

737
01:16:41,780 --> 01:16:45,860
 So first I want to share how many residents I've talked to were scared this committee

738
01:16:45,860 --> 01:16:51,460
 might misuse or misinterpret people's stories. And I believe we've kind of seen a misstep

739
01:16:51,460 --> 01:16:54,660
 by hearing someone counter one of the caller's stories by saying that they had a positive

740
01:16:54,660 --> 01:16:59,540
 encounter with the NPD. And personally, I feel that the fact that this happened and

741
01:16:59,540 --> 01:17:04,060
 that the slight thinking could be central to how the committee uses these stories should

742
01:17:04,060 --> 01:17:08,420
 be kind of cause for alarm, something that the committee investigates after this. Essentially,

743
01:17:08,420 --> 01:17:11,740
 if members of the committee believe that it's one person's word over another, then we're

744
01:17:11,740 --> 01:17:16,380
 not going to see the change we need. The reason we're still in this mess is because often

745
01:17:16,380 --> 01:17:20,300
 people who call the shots are just going off of positive stories. But I don't think that

746
01:17:20,300 --> 01:17:24,620
 this committee needs stories, positive or negative, to make the change we need. I think

747
01:17:24,620 --> 01:17:29,220
 often calling for stories is a tactic that allows folks to be legitimized, people who

748
01:17:29,220 --> 01:17:32,700
 have been negatively impacted by police. So I just really hope that the committee really

749
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:39,260
 carefully considers what stories really mean in this and don't use them to delegitimize

750
01:17:39,260 --> 01:17:44,540
 the folks who are asking for need. And then next, I asked that the committee asked themselves

751
01:17:44,540 --> 01:17:49,100
 these two questions anytime they consider a recommendation. The first is, does this

752
01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:54,380
 recommendation increase or maintain the scope, power, resources, or functions of the police?

753
01:17:54,380 --> 01:17:58,420
 And I think the answer should be no. And the second question is, was this recommendation

754
01:17:58,420 --> 01:18:04,220
 created by, for and with residents who are most impacted historically by policing? And

755
01:18:04,220 --> 01:18:10,380
 the answer should be less. So over the coming weeks, we're going to hear from police and

756
01:18:10,380 --> 01:18:15,220
 city council that they're responding to the moment. But I believe a lot of things that

757
01:18:15,220 --> 01:18:20,420
 are coming up missed the point of Black Lives Matter movement. For example, as the police

758
01:18:20,420 --> 01:18:24,580
 have taken up over a quarter of the general fund over the past 10 years, we've seen the

759
01:18:24,580 --> 01:18:29,580
 increase of scope of the department in the city, while a lot of folks who are marginalized

760
01:18:29,580 --> 01:18:34,380
 still live without the resources they need. And we've seen that, especially with the COVID

761
01:18:34,380 --> 01:18:39,740
 crisis. So these problems won't be solved by more policing, no matter how much more

762
01:18:39,740 --> 01:18:45,820
 responsive, friendly, or seemingly transparent it may be. And I think that the chief agrees.

763
01:18:45,820 --> 01:18:50,820
 Like he said, there should be a world where not everything is responded to by policing.

764
01:18:50,820 --> 01:18:54,900
 So I appreciate that. But at the end of the day, police use the tools that they have,

765
01:18:54,900 --> 01:19:02,260
 which are violence and arrests. So like an example is the new mental health unit. While

766
01:19:02,260 --> 01:19:06,280
 this is better than what we have right now, it still increases the scope of police by

767
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:11,780
 bringing mental health resources under the police's control. And so while there are going

768
01:19:11,780 --> 01:19:15,780
 to be violent situations that call for more than just the mental health professional, just

769
01:19:15,780 --> 01:19:19,420
 because this is the best we can do right now, it doesn't mean that it's the only solution

770
01:19:19,420 --> 01:19:24,120
 we have for the future. So I agree with the chief that we need to have more services and

771
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:29,540
 resources than what we currently have. And so my point is that the black guys movement

772
01:19:29,540 --> 01:19:33,760
 is way more than simply reviewing these policies and asking the city and police to tighten

773
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:40,220
 them up. This movement is about bringing power to people and paving a future in which all

774
01:19:40,220 --> 01:19:47,420
 people's needs are met. And currently we don't meet those. And a budget is a city small document.

775
01:19:47,420 --> 01:19:51,020
 And essentially our budget tells that night that we don't care necessarily about the most

776
01:19:51,020 --> 01:19:54,900
 in need and would rather use police for most of these problems. And additionally, we even

777
01:19:54,900 --> 01:20:00,180
 approved a $60 million bond last year and millions more for the gun range. And so while

778
01:20:00,180 --> 01:20:04,020
 your work on the committee is not directly tied to funding, I believe that the work you're

779
01:20:04,020 --> 01:20:08,380
 doing here with regard to use of force is one of many parallel steps, 20 months more

780
01:20:08,380 --> 01:20:15,060
 just a future for Denton. So it can only not only achieve the goals that you've set out

781
01:20:15,060 --> 01:20:18,780
 to achieve, but also enable more of the demands of the black eyes matter movement to come

782
01:20:18,780 --> 01:20:25,460
 to fruition. So I hope that you will recommend a community oversight board and any other recommendations

783
01:20:25,460 --> 01:20:29,900
 that decrease the scope of policing in Denton and empower those who have gone underserved

784
01:20:29,900 --> 01:20:34,100
 by local governments for too long. The people need to know that your recommendations will

785
01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:38,860
 make it undesirable for any police officer to even come near a violation of use of force.

786
01:20:38,860 --> 01:20:43,260
 If we don't strengthen the mechanisms for accountability and give the power to the people,

787
01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:48,860
 we will maintain the status quo. We're asking for healing and justice. We're asking more

788
01:20:48,860 --> 01:20:52,860
 than lift service. So I hope you take seriously if things like you are, and I know that these

789
01:20:52,860 --> 01:20:57,580
 are going to be a really difficult conversation. So thank you for the work you're doing, but

790
01:20:57,580 --> 01:21:01,380
 we can't just maintain the status quo. We can't just do things like what we've done.

791
01:21:01,380 --> 01:21:06,020
 Reform is only the goal. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

792
01:21:14,260 --> 01:21:18,840
 We should probably give the callers like a 20 second heads up so they can wrap up their

793
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:30,780
 statements. That's fine. Hello. Hi, Jennifer. Hi, Cheryl. My name is Janay to give my name

794
01:21:30,780 --> 01:21:40,780
 and all that. Yes. Okay. Yes. Jennifer Lane, Denton, Texas 76205. Okay. Yeah. I've been

795
01:21:40,780 --> 01:21:46,780
 following as much as I can while attending another event, but I wanted to just sort of

796
01:21:46,780 --> 01:21:54,460
 point out that I'm 65 years old white woman, grown up in the suburbs in Denton for 13 years.

797
01:21:54,460 --> 01:22:05,820
 And I don't have the feeling towards seeing police cars that probably most of my demographics

798
01:22:05,820 --> 01:22:10,340
 is writing to you about. I don't like seeing them. I don't feel comfortable seeing them.

799
01:22:10,340 --> 01:22:17,700
 I've had lots of experiences, both plus and minus with police, very good experiences,

800
01:22:17,700 --> 01:22:24,300
 particularly in organizing protests and events like this. And also when I was least comfortable,

801
01:22:24,300 --> 01:22:30,540
 I chose to move toward the police in terms of serving on a faculty committee that was

802
01:22:30,540 --> 01:22:35,200
 involved with the police. This was when I was a cyclist and had had some bad experiences

803
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:43,100
 with the police along with other cyclists at UNT, nothing truly terrible, but enough.

804
01:22:43,100 --> 01:22:52,420
 And what I also have experienced is uncomfortable experiences as I've gotten involved with Denton

805
01:22:52,420 --> 01:22:58,540
 politics, particularly involving the police union. And whereas I'm a union member myself,

806
01:22:58,540 --> 01:23:06,900
 and I have been for over 40 years, I really respect them and believe in unions. And I'm

807
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:14,220
 sad to see that they have declined because they are very good gathering agents for races

808
01:23:14,220 --> 01:23:18,660
 that have a lot in common and enable people to collect a bargain and all sorts of other

809
01:23:18,660 --> 01:23:27,860
 important steps. I have found myself to be disturbed by the police union before recent

810
01:23:27,860 --> 01:23:37,140
 events actually, that there's a kind of a stirring up of political behavior on the part

811
01:23:37,140 --> 01:23:42,340
 of, and I see this not just with the police union, I've seen it with other agencies related

812
01:23:42,340 --> 01:23:53,260
 to utilities and other functions, with a city where sort of surrogates for them will create

813
01:23:53,260 --> 01:23:59,380
 drama and stir up the public. And for the first time recently, I spoke out about it

814
01:23:59,380 --> 01:24:05,220
 because it was in regards to the formation of this very committee that the union stirred

815
01:24:05,220 --> 01:24:13,140
 up a great deal of commentary under the idea that just because people were discussing defunding

816
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:17,980
 the police, that somehow this meant that this committee was, you know, the mayor has created

817
01:24:17,980 --> 01:24:22,940
 it and yet and so on and so on. And so I went on to the page and I said, you know, if this

818
01:24:22,940 --> 01:24:28,220
 was just a random individual kind of stirring up a mess, I could sort of ignore it, but

819
01:24:28,220 --> 01:24:33,860
 this is the police union. And the reason I responded to it as I did was because a couple

820
01:24:33,860 --> 01:24:38,420
 of years ago when one of the city council members was looking to sort of trade off one

821
01:24:38,420 --> 01:24:45,220
 expense for one race and, you know, some sort of tinkering just with the finances of compensation,

822
01:24:45,220 --> 01:24:54,900
 the same sort of crazy stirring up of supporters took place. And it was really in the public's

823
01:24:54,900 --> 01:25:02,980
 disinterest to have had that happen. And then, so I wanted to bring that out, that as a union

824
01:25:02,980 --> 01:25:07,460
 member, and particularly in recent years, I'm not a performing artist, so the unions

825
01:25:07,460 --> 01:25:13,500
 that have represented the orchestras that have been treated so badly in opera companies,

826
01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:20,160
 so badly in recent years by their 30 seconds, Jennifer, that, you know, I have seen how

827
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:26,960
 the unions have reached out to the wider public to, to get Garner support, but to do it in

828
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:32,620
 a softer manner to, I'd like to see that what's going on here and what people are trying to

829
01:25:32,620 --> 01:25:39,620
 express is taken seriously and that the police themselves ask their unions are quiet down

830
01:25:39,620 --> 01:25:47,100
 and not react to every step that's made by the public to, to associate a new relationship

831
01:25:47,100 --> 01:25:48,100
 with police.

832
01:25:48,100 --> 01:25:50,100
 >> Thank you, Jennifer. Your time is up, Jennifer.

833
01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:51,100
 >> Okay.

834
01:25:51,100 --> 01:26:04,620
 >> Does anyone have any questions for Jennifer? Yancy? Oh, okay. Thank you, Jennifer.

835
01:26:04,620 --> 01:26:13,100
 >> Thank you.

836
01:26:13,100 --> 01:26:14,340
 >> We have another caller coming in.

837
01:26:14,340 --> 01:26:15,340
 >> Yes, hello?

838
01:26:15,340 --> 01:26:16,340
 >> Hi, Sam?

839
01:26:16,340 --> 01:26:23,020
 >> Yeah, this is Sam. How are you doing? Good. You have four minutes.

840
01:26:23,020 --> 01:26:32,340
 >> Okay. Yeah, thank you. Remind on this committee, my name is Sam Alphonse. As far as Denton

841
01:26:32,340 --> 01:26:40,340
 Police Department, I don't have a good experience with them. I've been racially profiled. I

842
01:26:40,340 --> 01:26:50,060
 had my car stolen and my dump truck stolen in Denton. I had been attacked in Denton.

843
01:26:50,060 --> 01:26:56,560
 And like I said, I don't have a whole lot of good things to say. I mean, it's, to get

844
01:26:56,560 --> 01:27:02,540
 their police report in Denton is very hard, you know, and to get them to investigate anything

845
01:27:02,540 --> 01:27:07,900
 is almost next to impossible. And the thing that happened there is tarvers never happened

846
01:27:07,900 --> 01:27:16,980
 again. The people of Denton had to pressure the mayor and the police chief to release the

847
01:27:16,980 --> 01:27:22,460
 tape. It wasn't until public pressure that they released the tape. The committee is a

848
01:27:22,460 --> 01:27:28,220
 good idea, but the committees should be independent from the police department because you cannot

849
01:27:28,220 --> 01:27:36,820
 have a committee that you have the chief and the mayor as a committee to go after the police

850
01:27:36,820 --> 01:27:43,780
 misconduct. And the police officer that murdered that boy was back on the force the next day.

851
01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:47,740
 That should never happen. And most other states that would not have happened, they would have

852
01:27:47,740 --> 01:27:56,300
 been suspended with pay. The people of Denton and other states United States always have

853
01:27:56,300 --> 01:28:05,740
 and have issues with police misconduct because a lot of police do take advantage of the point

854
01:28:05,740 --> 01:28:10,220
 that they have immunity when they break the laws and write the laws. I had a friend of

855
01:28:10,220 --> 01:28:17,980
 mine recently this month got a guy trying to rape in our apartment in Denton and they

856
01:28:17,980 --> 01:28:23,100
 did the bare minimum. And she's still currently trying to fight to get a police report. You

857
01:28:23,100 --> 01:28:27,100
 know, I've known other individuals with the women that violent crimes has happened to

858
01:28:27,100 --> 01:28:35,300
 them in Denton and the police have been very reluctant to help them. So I mean, you don't

859
01:28:35,300 --> 01:28:40,420
 want to get oversight, the committee would have to be independent on the police department

860
01:28:40,420 --> 01:28:46,700
 and have other experts to help. But to have the chief and the mayor and those same people

861
01:28:46,700 --> 01:28:50,900
 that try to stop the tape from a tarver, I don't see how there's going to be any progress

862
01:28:50,900 --> 01:28:56,860
 in that matter. It's going to be very extremely difficult. You know, and it needs to stop.

863
01:28:56,860 --> 01:29:02,180
 It's no way safe for any citizen or even a college student to be on campus that to worry

864
01:29:02,180 --> 01:29:09,900
 about them being attacked or abused by police. We have cases of that now in Denton. Students,

865
01:29:09,900 --> 01:29:17,900
 our future have to worry about their safety or being attacked or even murdered to try

866
01:29:17,900 --> 01:29:23,580
 to go to school to get the edge case to do better. I mean, it's it's sickening and it's

867
01:29:23,580 --> 01:29:26,660
 kind of frightening. You got to tell your kids, you know, you got to go to college now,

868
01:29:26,660 --> 01:29:30,180
 but you also got to watch police and capital cities because, you know, bad things can happen

869
01:29:30,180 --> 01:29:39,740
 to you. This is what we have to tell our kids. You know, it's very sad and it's very heartbreaking,

870
01:29:39,740 --> 01:29:45,760
 you know, and Denton needs to have a better mental health for the people that's mental

871
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,840
 health. They need to work together with the police department because it's like Chief

872
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:52,700
 Dixon did say they're not social workers, but they need to be a better way to communicate

873
01:29:52,700 --> 01:29:56,100
 with the police and management when they go out on the call because they don't know what

874
01:29:56,100 --> 01:30:00,040
 they're getting. But as soon as they identify the person, they should be able to have somebody

875
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,220
 from the MSU to get somebody from the police to volunteer or whatever. And then that way

876
01:30:04,220 --> 01:30:08,340
 it won't cost the city a dime. That way they know what it was dealing with. And that would

877
01:30:08,340 --> 01:30:12,020
 stop a lot of the excessive force and they know how to keep the mental health people

878
01:30:12,020 --> 01:30:17,020
 a little different from the regular people. Okay. You have 18 seconds, Sam. They might

879
01:30:17,020 --> 01:30:23,820
 not be on their meds and I don't care. That's it. Okay. Thank you. Did anyone have any questions

880
01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:32,580
 for Sam? Yes, Kamya. Sam, thank you for your comments. You mentioned that you had things

881
01:30:32,580 --> 01:30:41,160
 stolen and had been attacked and or threatened. Were those by DPD or were those cases in which

882
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:47,260
 you were trying to find police reports? Well, cases I've been trying to find police reports

883
01:30:47,260 --> 01:30:55,260
 and being stolen. You know, and the identity that that's on file, my dump trailer stolen

884
01:30:55,260 --> 01:31:02,060
 and my cars got stolen while I was at work at the time. And I was profiled. I was, I'm

885
01:31:02,060 --> 01:31:07,780
 a black business owner. I'm disabled legally blind. It happened last year, January. So

886
01:31:07,780 --> 01:31:15,780
 like I said, I've had negative experiences. I mean, not very helpful, you know. Okay.

887
01:31:15,780 --> 01:31:21,740
 Thank you so much. I just wanted to clarify that. I think Lilian might have had a question.

888
01:31:21,740 --> 01:31:27,140
 I was just going to say, Mr. Sam, you mentioned that there were some women that, you know,

889
01:31:27,140 --> 01:31:31,940
 they didn't get the support or the help that, you know, that they might have needed. I mean,

890
01:31:31,940 --> 01:31:36,300
 I know, I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, put a plug in, but I know that there's several

891
01:31:36,300 --> 01:31:40,540
 of us that would be willing to be advocates for them if any of them are willing to talk

892
01:31:40,540 --> 01:31:43,820
 to any of us and see if there's something that they can know. I think the hardest thing

893
01:31:43,820 --> 01:31:47,560
 is trying to bridge the gap between, you know, the people that sit on this committee and

894
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:51,100
 the people out there in the community. But if you, if you know who they are and they

895
01:31:51,100 --> 01:31:57,220
 would be willing to share, you know, my name is right on the screen, you know, let me know.

896
01:31:57,220 --> 01:32:04,500
 What's your name again, man? Lilian Prado Carrillo. Okay. Okay. Yeah, just, you know,

897
01:32:04,500 --> 01:32:08,180
 we want to, we want to bridge that gap for whatever reason. And so if we can serve. Yeah,

898
01:32:08,180 --> 01:32:12,420
 this needs to stop. I mean, everything from carjacking, I mean, and they couldn't give

899
01:32:12,420 --> 01:32:18,700
 help and friends and family, you hear me? That's not bad to God. So like you said, that

900
01:32:18,700 --> 01:32:22,220
 gap is very hard to bridge because people are kind of like reluctant to trust them.

901
01:32:22,220 --> 01:32:26,620
 And especially if they've been to a situation that is traumatic, you know, and they're going

902
01:32:26,620 --> 01:32:34,340
 for people to help and you can't get no help. Katina. Oh, okay. All right. Well, thank you

903
01:32:34,340 --> 01:33:00,180
 for calling. No problem. Hi, caller. Is this Jane? Yes. Hi, Jane. Hi, I'm Jane Piperlant.

904
01:33:00,180 --> 01:33:04,980
 I live at 1205, North Austin. I wanted to address some things I've heard tonight and

905
01:33:04,980 --> 01:33:09,580
 maybe get some suggestions. And I do have a couple of questions that they can be asked

906
01:33:09,580 --> 01:33:18,280
 after three. Um, I first want to say, I appreciate the way Chief Gibson handled the, um, protests

907
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:22,780
 that he sent to the police by the businesses to protect the businesses rather than trying

908
01:33:22,780 --> 01:33:28,920
 to intimidate or control the protesters. I am curious who called out the troopers the

909
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:35,200
 first night. Um, I do appreciate when they followed the protesters back in a few nights

910
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:42,560
 later that he told them to go away. Um, but I think he's done a great job on that. Um,

911
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:50,520
 the officer that said that MHMR has refused to come out on calls, that may be possible.

912
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:57,340
 My experience with MHMR is that they go above and beyond anything I ask. And even when it's

913
01:33:57,340 --> 01:34:05,300
 unreasonable things, they respond. Um, um, one of the problems I have found since somebody

914
01:34:05,300 --> 01:34:10,460
 talked about training citizens on how to make calls, there was a time when you could call

915
01:34:10,460 --> 01:34:15,780
 the non-emergency number and get an officer, you know, I mean, the dispatcher might say,

916
01:34:15,780 --> 01:34:20,900
 what's this about? So she knew who to channel it to, but it's almost impossible to get past

917
01:34:20,900 --> 01:34:26,740
 the dispatcher nowadays. And my attitude is if I wanted to talk to you, I would call 911.

918
01:34:26,740 --> 01:34:31,740
 I want to talk to an officer because I want to discuss this situation. I want to know

919
01:34:31,740 --> 01:34:37,500
 how to respond, you know, what would happen in this situation, how they would respond,

920
01:34:37,500 --> 01:34:44,820
 you know, is this worth a police call? And, um, you know, so I think having a non-emergency

921
01:34:44,820 --> 01:34:51,260
 officer on duty all the time to be able to talk to people, to discern, you know, what,

922
01:34:51,260 --> 01:34:58,700
 you know, if it's not a police situation, be able to refer them to, you know, a nonprofit

923
01:34:58,700 --> 01:35:05,300
 or whoever they need to talk to. And, um, because I mean, like one time I called because

924
01:35:05,300 --> 01:35:13,780
 I saw a homeless man asleep. Okay. And it was cold. And, uh, I wanted to know, you know,

925
01:35:13,780 --> 01:35:18,420
 I wanted the welfare check on the guy, but I wanted to know that if he wasn't causing

926
01:35:18,420 --> 01:35:24,340
 trouble or intoxicated or something that they would offer him a ride to the shelter, well,

927
01:35:24,340 --> 01:35:29,100
 the dispatcher goes, well, we're not a taxi service. And so I'm trying to get past her

928
01:35:29,100 --> 01:35:35,180
 to an officer and he mimics that exact same line. So, you know, there was talking going

929
01:35:35,180 --> 01:35:42,260
 on there and really, I think some of your dispatchers are a little bit pushy. So, but,

930
01:35:42,260 --> 01:35:46,620
 but I think the non-emergency number and people knowing that that exists, that they can talk

931
01:35:46,620 --> 01:35:55,700
 to an officer, uh, would be a, a great, great resource. Um, also, I know that during the,

932
01:35:55,700 --> 01:36:01,160
 when we got COVID money, that a couple of nonprofits said that they wanted an after

933
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:07,340
 hour image in our counselor. Um, do we know if that money has gotten used for that or

934
01:36:07,340 --> 01:36:13,360
 if anybody has applied for that? Um, I, I know that there's people on that committee

935
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:21,680
 who were all for that. And I think an after hour counselor would be, um, a good thing

936
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:29,660
 to have that can be called, you know, by people who, who maybe don't want the police involved,

937
01:36:29,660 --> 01:36:35,300
 but do you need somebody to respond? Okay, Jane, you have about 30 seconds left. I'm

938
01:36:35,300 --> 01:36:43,960
 done. Okay. Does anyone have any questions for Jane? I'd like to address the officer

939
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:51,260
 on the non-emergency line if we have a minute. Yes. So, Jane, when the COVID pandemic started

940
01:36:51,260 --> 01:36:55,600
 up, we started a full time teleserve officer position. We have two officers, at least two

941
01:36:55,600 --> 01:37:00,640
 officers in there 24 hours a day. They do nothing but take reports over the phone. So

942
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:06,320
 you do get a live police officer now. All you have to do is ask for the teleserve officer

943
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:12,700
 and they'll transfer you to them. If you don't get them directly. What's it called? Teleserve.

944
01:37:12,700 --> 01:37:23,480
 Teleserve. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Also, I wanted to ask you who called the troopers

945
01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:32,320
 out that first night. So the troopers were taking care of I-35? Their state agencies?

946
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:39,320
 No, no, no. The first night of the protest, the ones that lined up and kind of shoved

947
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:46,240
 everybody down, down Hickory Street. Yeah, I was going to finish what I was saying. They

948
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:51,440
 were working. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. They're, they're working on I-35. And when we went

949
01:37:51,440 --> 01:37:56,580
 down to the square to close it down, they came down there behind us. So they weren't,

950
01:37:56,580 --> 01:38:00,000
 the majority of people down on the square that night were didn't police officers. There

951
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:06,400
 was probably, I don't know, five or six troopers that were down there. You're talking about

952
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:15,880
 the very first night? Yes. There were more than six troopers out there. They did what's

953
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:20,440
 it called the box formation or something like that? I'm hearing from Chief Smith, there

954
01:38:20,440 --> 01:38:27,800
 was probably 10, 10 or 15. Yeah, there were a bunch. So who called them? Oh, so they just,

955
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:32,680
 so you didn't ask for them? They showed up? Yeah, they were here helping us on I-35. They

956
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:40,640
 just came down to the square to help us on the square. Okay. Well, I'm glad you didn't

957
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:47,800
 have them after that because that was a problem. And I, but I, I, I liked the way you handled,

958
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:57,360
 the rest of it. Anybody else? I would like to. Sarah Keitler, do you know if anybody

959
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:05,480
 applied for an after hours MHMR counselor? If you're referring to the CDBG CV funds,

960
01:39:05,480 --> 01:39:10,320
 those are still unprogrammed at this time. So we'll be seeking further direction from

961
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:17,360
 council in terms of how to use those funds. Well, I would encourage this committee to,

962
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:26,000
 to recommend that. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. Anybody else? Yeah, I had a follow

963
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:36,000
 up question to your question. Is it Jane? For Chief Dixon, I, I guess I'm wondering

964
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:45,360
 when does DPD decide when to call those troops in? Like how did you, I heard you said you

965
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:49,940
 needed them on I-35, but you didn't necessarily need them at the square. So was it because

966
01:39:49,940 --> 01:39:53,600
 people are on the freeway or like, how do you all decide when that happens? Cause I

967
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:59,640
 think that's kind of what the caller is getting at. Like why were they here and what precipitated

968
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:05,760
 that? Well, we're always planning for the worst, right? We've only got X number of police

969
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:10,600
 officers working in the city at any one time. We've only got a certain number of allocated

970
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:14,600
 positions that we can have out there. So we're going to need support from all of our partner

971
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:19,040
 agencies. They came out to assist us. We're very thankful for that. They worked very well

972
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:25,000
 with us. We didn't have any problems associated with them. We had the one communication gap

973
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:30,560
 on the one night that we're talking about. And that's about it. So we're always going

974
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:35,480
 to be planning ahead. When we're in the moment, it's too late to start trying to plan for

975
01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:40,120
 any contingencies. So we're going to continue to just keep everybody safe and allow people

976
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:46,000
 to have their voices heard. Chief Dixon, I think we're talking about two different nights.

977
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:55,480
 Okay. The very first night of the, of the protest, there are about 10 30, a huge group

978
01:40:55,480 --> 01:41:01,480
 of troopers came out and made a box formation and pushed people down Hickory street. There

979
01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:07,160
 was the night they had the caravan and the troopers followed them in and you told them

980
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:13,240
 to go away. Right. So I'm talking, I'm talking about the very first night. Yeah, I'm clear.

981
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:27,480
 They started out the same place. Okay. Okay. All right. Anybody else? Thank you, caller.

982
01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:52,040
 Thank you. Tristan. Okay. Hi, Tristan. Yes. Hi. Thanks for calling in. You have four minutes

983
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:57,040
 and then I'll, and then if the committee has questions afterwards and they'll ask you questions

984
01:41:57,040 --> 01:42:03,520
 and I'll try to notify you in the last 30 seconds. Okay. And then start now or when does it start?

985
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:10,600
 Starts right now. Okay. Hello. My name is Tristan cycle. My address is 601 Eagle drive

986
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:16,040
 apartment 101 and I'm an organizer for several local reform organizations, including the

987
01:42:16,040 --> 01:42:21,080
 university of our Texas students, responsible drug policy and decriminalize sentence. Today

988
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:26,160
 I'm calling about the ad hoc committee and its role in Vincent policing. I am most concerned

989
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:31,160
 about the lack of discussion in city and county government on the need for scaling back police

990
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:37,440
 priorities, especially regarding nonviolent offenses such as drug use, sex work, and other

991
01:42:37,440 --> 01:42:42,160
 crimes that are disproportionately enforced against communities most impacted by policing

992
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:47,280
 in Denton. People in the city and county of Denton are still being arrested and incarcerated

993
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:52,120
 for a wide list of nonviolent misdemeanor and felony crimes, including acts of survival,

994
01:42:52,120 --> 01:42:57,760
 such as drug use and trade as well as sex work right now, the increased risk for COVID-19

995
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:03,200
 exposure and the Denton County jail makes nonviolent offenses, a potential death sentence.

996
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:08,080
 There are 37 people in Denton County jail that tested positive for COVID-19 and seven

997
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:12,520
 prison guards have contracted it too. So ending the arrest and incarceration of nonviolent

998
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:18,080
 offenders would significantly help prevent community spread for the pandemic. Also, we

999
01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:22,960
 must acknowledge how nonviolent crimes are often used to justify the unwarranted death

1000
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:28,800
 of people at the hands of police. For instance, the use of force against the former UNT student

1001
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:34,600
 Darius Tarver was immorally justified by police to the implication that they initially thought

1002
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:39,040
 he could have been on a substance like PCC, which insinuates that our police do not think

1003
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:43,600
 that people experiencing a drug induced crisis are worthy of life. And that is just very

1004
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:48,840
 disturbing and dehumanizing trends that we must stand adamantly against. I would like

1005
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:54,440
 to see a moratorium on all nonviolent offenses and in an empowered as well as community focused

1006
01:43:54,440 --> 01:43:59,340
 ad hoc committee that is able to adequately address concerns over wrongful use of force

1007
01:43:59,340 --> 01:44:04,120
 in our local law enforcement organization. Additionally, the city needs to invest in creating

1008
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:08,560
 a separate hotline and service for people experiencing mental health or drug induced

1009
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:13,720
 crises, so that police no longer respond to those calls and instead of letting priceless

1010
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:18,800
 workers be responsible for diffusing those emergencies. Historically, reform hasn't prevented

1011
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:23,960
 or reduced harm to communities, so we must demand solutions to best police resources

1012
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:28,240
 and to supporting the community, not the type that further empowers and militarizes police

1013
01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:33,560
 resources. Thank you all for listening. I yield my time.

1014
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:40,880
 Thank you. I have a question. Just for clarification, did you say that you didn't think that, or

1015
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:45,800
 maybe I didn't hear it wrong, there should be an arrest or some type of force when someone's

1016
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:46,800
 on PCP?

1017
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:51,600
 What we're saying is that there should not be a police called out for that. What I'm

1018
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:55,520
 suggesting is that rather there should be a separate hotline or service that the city

1019
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:59,840
 hopefully would provide that would have crisis workers who are not affiliated with the police

1020
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:04,960
 answer and respond to those calls.

1021
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:05,960
 On PCP?

1022
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:09,840
 On any illegal substance, yes. It doesn't matter the type of illegal substance, whether

1023
01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:15,960
 it's alcohol or even if it's a legal substance, unless they're in the act of committing another

1024
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:18,880
 crime, that's a different story. If you're in the middle of robbing, it doesn't matter

1025
01:45:18,880 --> 01:45:23,040
 what you're doing. If you're robbing, that's obviously an issue of law enforcement.

1026
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:33,400
 Go ahead. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever experienced somebody on PCP?

1027
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,520
 I've seen people in drug induced crises, if that's what you're asking, yes.

1028
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:41,960
 No. The reason I'm saying that is because I've experienced somebody who broke into my

1029
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:51,240
 home on PCP. It took nine police officers and paramedics to get him under control. That's

1030
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:59,600
 after he was shot twice. Let me understand what you're saying. That's very dear to me

1031
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:01,560
 because he tried to kill us.

1032
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:07,040
 Yeah, I understand that. To me, in that instance, it is the breaking and entering. It is the

1033
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:12,320
 violence that he risked opposing to you guys. That is what should be the crime in that issue.

1034
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:16,040
 The fact that they're on PCP, they could have been high on any drug. They could have been

1035
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:19,280
 not high on a drug. They just had a mental health crisis. If they're committing another

1036
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:25,800
 crime and a commissioning of a crime, that crime has to be investigated and prosecuted

1037
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:31,200
 to the fullest extent. What I'm talking about is other people calling who are not committing

1038
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:36,360
 any other crime outside of just having a mental health or drug induced crisis. Obviously there'd

1039
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:42,320
 be caveats and it's not a black and white issue, of course. What I'm saying is that

1040
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:46,080
 there needs to be alternative solutions to calling the police because too many times

1041
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:50,260
 somebody calls the police out of concern over a loved one or someone who's either on drugs

1042
01:46:50,260 --> 01:46:55,080
 or is having a mental health crisis and the response is simply to shoot to kill. I'm sorry,

1043
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,960
 but I do not think that that in and of itself is an appropriate response to any and all

1044
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:04,880
 situations involving a drug induced crisis. Obviously there will be bad situations where

1045
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:08,440
 someone's committing another violent crime and the interest in preventing violent crime,

1046
01:47:08,440 --> 01:47:12,680
 we must do everything possible to prevent that when it actually happens. But we don't

1047
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:16,080
 need to generalize and lump up every instance where someone's having a drug induced crisis

1048
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:20,880
 and mental health crisis and think that and assume that they're automatically commissioning

1049
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:25,440
 another crime. In fact, people with mental health issues are more likely to be victimized

1050
01:47:25,440 --> 01:47:31,400
 violently by other people than the other way around. When it comes to drug use as well,

1051
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:36,640
 these are people that have, when it's a problematic drug use or drug induced crisis, this is often

1052
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:40,720
 a reflection of people not having a safe space to use drugs. It's also people not having

1053
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:45,920
 good information about how to use drugs safely. And so because society has rejected them,

1054
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:51,280
 they turn to more dangerous and more uncontrollable forms of use. And so that causes more problems

1055
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:57,080
 for both people who use drugs and it caused problems for people who don't do drugs, right?

1056
01:47:57,080 --> 01:48:00,400
 And people just minding their own business and then having to deal with that. I would

1057
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:04,920
 call, I would say that that is the result of poverty, a lack of education and the war

1058
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:13,920
 on drugs and, you know, prohibitionist policies. Jamie. I feel like my question was answered.

1059
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:18,560
 I was trying to, or maybe not, I don't know, I'll ask the caller. I was trying to clarify

1060
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:24,720
 if you think that the policy should be the same across the board for all drug users,

1061
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:31,520
 or if you agree with the prior callers this evening that have made distinctions between

1062
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:38,220
 low level offenses and more illicit drugs. Well, the problem with the low level and the

1063
01:48:38,220 --> 01:48:42,680
 non, when we do those kinds of arbitrary separations, like I don't, I'm sure most people don't

1064
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:46,880
 realize that cannabis concentrates in the, in the state of Texas is an automatic state

1065
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:51,920
 jail felony. Even though in other states, those particular forms of cannabis are proven

1066
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:56,440
 to be remarkably helpful for people dealing with debilitating disorders like post-traumatic

1067
01:48:56,440 --> 01:49:02,520
 stress disorder, other eating and, you know, physical and mental disorders. So, but here

1068
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:06,720
 is an automatic felony. So if we just have that, well, is it a misdemeanor or is it not

1069
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:11,040
 a misdemeanor? And keep in mind, if you're found with any drug outside of flour, cannabis

1070
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:15,680
 or alcohol, you're automatically given a state jail felony because it's a special penalty

1071
01:49:15,680 --> 01:49:20,600
 group. So, I mean, that covers everything from drugs like LSD, psilocybin, mushrooms,

1072
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:25,920
 which are considered to be some of the safest, least toxic drugs out there, but that obviously

1073
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:30,020
 doesn't include things like alcohol, which is considered to be one of the more dangerous

1074
01:49:30,020 --> 01:49:35,920
 or detrimental substances in our community. Right? So, yeah, I would say that, you know,

1075
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:39,820
 that distinction, I understand. And I definitely think that, you know, focusing maybe first

1076
01:49:39,820 --> 01:49:47,000
 on cannabis and other, you know, crimes like that would be ideal. I definitely with decriminalized

1077
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:51,480
 incident, we definitely advocate that we first and foremost decriminalized cannabis use and

1078
01:49:51,480 --> 01:49:56,720
 decriminalized all misdemeanor offenses for that, including the state jail felony that

1079
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:02,120
 comes with having any personal amount of cannabis concentrate. And the design of all of that

1080
01:50:02,120 --> 01:50:08,080
 is just to focus on non-commercial use. Right? So it's all about personal use. It's personal

1081
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:11,800
 use of any of these things. But personally, I would argue to this committee that we really

1082
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:17,240
 need to be considering like any personal amount of drug use, you know, that should be decriminalized

1083
01:50:17,240 --> 01:50:21,280
 or at the very least, we should reduce the priority for enforcing that because at the

1084
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:27,640
 end of the day, like, you know, not only do we have the, there's a lot of, I think it's

1085
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:31,240
 a rights issue, of course, too, you know, but I think that what we need to be focusing

1086
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:35,440
 on is the relationship people have with drugs and not necessarily the drug itself. You can

1087
01:50:35,440 --> 01:50:39,320
 have a problematic relationship with sugar. Sugar is a drug, and that's something a lot

1088
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:43,520
 of people don't recognize, but that can manifest some very serious diseases. Same thing with

1089
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:47,840
 alcohol, same thing with tobacco, same thing with a lot of legal substances. So the question

1090
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:52,040
 is not the drug. The question is the relationship you have to the drug. And I think that if

1091
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:57,160
 we consider that more as a society, we'd ultimately have better outcomes for people who use drugs

1092
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:00,160
 and the people that have to deal with the people who use drugs.

1093
01:51:00,160 --> 01:51:01,160
 Katina?

1094
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:08,440
 I want to make sure I understand what you're saying and what I think just on a baseline

1095
01:51:08,440 --> 01:51:16,520
 is what I'm hearing is that because of the criminalization of drug use between the different

1096
01:51:16,520 --> 01:51:22,440
 people groups, white drug use, how it's seen as a mental health issue and how people are

1097
01:51:22,440 --> 01:51:29,440
 handled versus Black, Brown, and other people who use drugs and are automatically criminalized

1098
01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:35,920
 and there's over sentencing, you're trying to, you're suggesting to leverage all of it.

1099
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:40,160
 And I do, I want to be clear that I do hear you saying that if someone is committing a

1100
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:45,640
 crime, they are committing a crime. I don't necessarily, I mean, I'm not even talking

1101
01:51:45,640 --> 01:51:51,400
 about the drugs and the PCP or anything like that. We may differ on how all that works.

1102
01:51:51,400 --> 01:51:59,200
 But on a base level, you're saying decriminalize or at least leverage drug use in a way that

1103
01:51:59,200 --> 01:52:04,760
 brings equity to all people. And if people are committing crimes, if people are committing

1104
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:10,160
 crimes, then handle up on them commit the crime. Is that what you're saying?

1105
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:13,440
 Well, I guess this is, yes, that's exactly it. I would say the only distinction I would

1106
01:52:13,440 --> 01:52:17,080
 make is that there needs to be a distinction between violent and nonviolent crimes. And

1107
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:21,640
 I would consider simple drug use in and of itself, like possession of drug use, or, you

1108
01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:26,320
 know, acts around that like drug paraphernalia. Those shouldn't be, those are nonviolent crimes

1109
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:30,200
 and they should be, we should be considering it as such. And that's where decriminalization

1110
01:52:30,200 --> 01:52:34,000
 of that should come into place. But I agree, if you're committing a violent crime, a violent

1111
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,920
 crime is still a violent crime and that has to be, you know, prosecuted. It's just important

1112
01:52:37,920 --> 01:52:41,880
 that we make the distinction between violent and nonviolent crime. And I hope that this

1113
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:44,720
 would help further that. Thank you.

1114
01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:48,280
 I have a comment.

1115
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:51,520
 Yes, Willie.

1116
01:52:51,520 --> 01:53:01,760
 I was lectured by several of you for questioning a caller about what they saw as an issue,

1117
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:08,560
 and that I was told this is a forum for them to state what they believe and what they think

1118
01:53:08,560 --> 01:53:18,880
 about a given situation on topic, presumably. And, but yet you, Cheryl, asked the question

1119
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:27,960
 about the caller, similar to what I'm thinking was my same concern, that I took issue with

1120
01:53:27,960 --> 01:53:33,200
 what someone said, because I didn't think it was factual. You took issue, sounds like

1121
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:39,680
 to me, maybe something else, that this person was saying what he thought was what needed

1122
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:47,000
 to be done in a situation involving the police. So we are going to have to have it both ways.

1123
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:52,040
 You can question, then I think the rest of us can question, but I have to agree with

1124
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:56,760
 what was said earlier. This is not the place for that to happen.

1125
01:53:56,760 --> 01:54:04,120
 No, Willie, I asked him a question to clarify what I thought I heard.

1126
01:54:04,120 --> 01:54:09,720
 But then you proceeded to then tell him what your thoughts are on the situation.

1127
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:14,760
 No, I didn't tell him my thoughts, I told him my experience.

1128
01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:22,640
 Okay, whatever you want to call it. And you weren't saying you were wrong, nor was I, per

1129
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:29,200
 se. But basically, I guess I was when I said that quit bringing the national situation

1130
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:35,240
 into Denton. Just deal with Denton's situation. And then, as I said, the committee members

1131
01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:42,080
 who spoke out said to me that no, we are in, we have in this forum, or this situation now,

1132
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:48,280
 this discussion, so that people can feel free to voice what they think about a given situation.

1133
01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:53,000
 And that's what he did. Even though I know several of us will take issue with it.

1134
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:58,200
 But this is not the place to take issues with it, I was told.

1135
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:02,720
 I think, I was just going to say, I mean, I did feel a little uncomfortable, because

1136
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:07,440
 I felt like he was kind of being jumped on because you had such a personal experience.

1137
01:55:07,440 --> 01:55:12,280
 I just want to say we need to give grace to the people that are calling and also just

1138
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:15,880
 ourselves. We've all had experiences, you know, and if

1139
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:20,480
 we keep bringing our own in, that's going to discourage others from coming in and sharing.

1140
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:24,800
 And so I appreciate you, Willie, that you, you know, you said, I'm not going to do that,

1141
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:29,160
 you know, and I think that we all need to do that. So we can discuss this later on.

1142
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:33,260
 We also have the advantage that we're getting a lot more information than the public has.

1143
01:55:33,260 --> 01:55:36,160
 So some of the things that they're saying, we could go back and say, oh, that was already

1144
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:40,160
 discussed. We already talked about that a week ago, too. That doesn't matter. Let them

1145
01:55:40,160 --> 01:55:43,680
 speak. This is our four minutes. And I know that people have been on there waiting already

1146
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:49,120
 for like an hour, an hour and a half or something. So like you said, let's let's keep going.

1147
01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:52,320
 Let's keep listening. If there's things that we need to come back and clarify that we can

1148
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:57,720
 do that. And our meetings are public anyway, so they'll be able to watch if they want.

1149
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:19,560
 And let's go on to the next caller. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Mariela. Yeah. Hi. Welcome

1150
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:24,740
 and thank you for calling. We'll give you four minutes and then if the committee has

1151
01:56:24,740 --> 01:56:32,500
 questions afterwards, they'll ask you questions. Wonderful. Thank you. Good evening, committee

1152
01:56:32,500 --> 01:56:39,040
 and buenas noches. My name is Mariela Nunez-Janes. I am a professor of anthropology with expertise

1153
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:45,080
 in the immigrant education. And I'm also part of a movement called Movimiento Cosecha Denton.

1154
01:56:45,080 --> 01:56:51,880
 We focus on respect and dignity for the 11 million undocumented that are in the U.S.

1155
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:58,640
 and of course those that live in Denton. I was calling because I'm concerned about two

1156
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:05,040
 things. The first one is that I've been concerned about the committee operations and particularly

1157
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:12,960
 I was concerned about the ways in which this meeting was organized to focus on stories.

1158
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:19,920
 And I'm glad you had that conversation about what to do with those stories. And I really

1159
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:28,880
 hope and it seems to be an ongoing conversation and I really hope that you think about some

1160
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:34,900
 clear guidelines about what the committee is going to do with respect to the stories

1161
01:57:34,900 --> 01:57:40,440
 and how they're going to be utilized for the purposes of the tasks that have been created

1162
01:57:40,440 --> 01:57:48,280
 for this committee. Secondly, I wanted to raise some issues and questions related to

1163
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:54,600
 Denton PD's engagement with the immigrant community. I recently reviewed Denton PD's

1164
01:57:54,600 --> 01:58:01,560
 proposal for engaging the immigrant community and I have been attending its Proyecto Amistad

1165
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:07,760
 which were community forums that were organized by Denton PD specifically to engage these

1166
01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:12,480
 communities. And in these forums I have heard officers tell community members to call them

1167
01:58:12,480 --> 01:58:17,660
 for anything that they need while at the same time express their frustration because they're

1168
01:58:17,660 --> 01:58:23,680
 being asked to be mental health professionals, social workers, and in this instance immigration

1169
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:28,960
 officials. And officers are right to share this frustration and the presumption that

1170
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:35,360
 police can solve every problem I think is irresponsible and it is also dangerous. It

1171
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:40,720
 led to the deportation of one of my students and this happened before Chief Dixon became

1172
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:46,520
 chief, but it's a story that we hear over and over here in Denton and also in other

1173
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:51,420
 communities. The student had no criminal record and he got pulled over because of a broken

1174
01:58:51,420 --> 01:58:58,080
 tail light. So the proposal that I read about engaging the immigrant community was reviewed

1175
01:58:58,080 --> 01:59:03,760
 by myself and other community members, including some immigration attorneys, and we found all

1176
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:09,680
 sorts of inconsistencies and wrong information about immigration law and procedures. There

1177
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:16,480
 was no specific procedures for avoiding inquiries about immigration status and there was no

1178
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:22,120
 accountability in that proposal for officers who do not follow Denton PD's prerogative

1179
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:27,620
 of not being concerned with immigration issues. There was no specification of the department's

1180
01:59:27,620 --> 01:59:35,120
 anti-discrimination policy or any norms of conduct to guarantee equal enforcement, particularly

1181
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:42,000
 as it pertains to the immigrant community in Denton. And if Denton PD has an official

1182
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:48,080
 stance when it comes to avoiding racial profiling, specifically in inquiries about status and

1183
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:53,960
 citizenship, why not make officers accountable? Why continue insisting in engaging inquiries

1184
01:59:53,960 --> 02:00:00,560
 about immigration status, especially in cases of victims of crimes and crime reporting?

1185
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:06,440
 If Denton PD is only interested in identifying a person's identity during routine stops and

1186
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:12,720
 not inflicting fear on the immigrant community, why not invest instead in community resources

1187
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:17,640
 and programs that are needed so that those who don't have a driver's license or who have

1188
02:00:17,640 --> 02:00:23,880
 all their other alternative forms of identification can get those kinds of identification?

1189
02:00:23,880 --> 02:00:26,880
 You have 20 seconds.

1190
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:39,680
 I am done. Does anyone have any questions? I'd just like to clarify a point. So we sent

1191
02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:45,360
 that policy out, the new general order out for vetting before it's not even finalized.

1192
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:48,920
 So we intentionally sent it out so we could get feedback from the community. And I don't

1193
02:00:48,920 --> 02:00:52,480
 know if that's ever been done here before. So I just want to make sure that people know

1194
02:00:52,480 --> 02:00:58,000
 that we're sending these general orders out to solicit feedback from you, the community,

1195
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:02,240
 before those are even issued. So that was not a finished policy when it was sent to

1196
02:01:02,240 --> 02:01:08,520
 you for vetting. And it sounds like it did exactly what the intended purpose was, so we

1197
02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:15,360
 could get feedback before we finalized it. So it's still not in time.

1198
02:01:15,360 --> 02:01:20,720
 I appreciate it. I'm still waiting to hear the response related to the feedback that

1199
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:23,600
 I and others provided.

1200
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:29,720
 So I'm sitting right next to our policy sergeant right now. And the policy hasn't been finalized.

1201
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:33,640
 She's going to be reaching back out to all the groups because we sent it to more than

1202
02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:41,040
 just to you. Some of the groups haven't responded back to us yet. So we're trying to be as flexible

1203
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:45,480
 as we can. We don't want any community member to think that we're moving on without getting

1204
02:01:45,480 --> 02:01:48,480
 their input.

1205
02:01:48,480 --> 02:01:58,600
 I understand that. In the meantime, I think it is an item that needs to be discussed and

1206
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:07,560
 put on a priority list, particularly in our current COVID crisis. There are people that

1207
02:02:07,560 --> 02:02:13,620
 are being detained and that are being deported who are infected with COVID. There's somebody

1208
02:02:13,620 --> 02:02:19,680
 right now in the Denton County jail who has an ice hold. And whether, I don't know if

1209
02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:28,440
 that person was actually detained by Denton PD or not, but it is happening. And so I think

1210
02:02:28,440 --> 02:02:34,400
 it's something that needs to be put on the priority list. And it's often not considered

1211
02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:41,040
 in discussions related to police use of force. I think we need to think about also the psychological

1212
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:46,520
 impacts of force. And certainly when it comes to the immigrant community, the ability to

1213
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:53,360
 use fear is also an example of force.

1214
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:54,360
 Camille?

1215
02:02:54,360 --> 02:03:05,120
 Oh, I wasn't really raising my hand, but I will say, I want to thank you for sharing

1216
02:03:05,120 --> 02:03:12,200
 your comments and uplifting the needs and concerns that might be of those folks that

1217
02:03:12,200 --> 02:03:16,520
 we have in Denton that are immigrants. I know as an organizer here in Denton, there are

1218
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:24,280
 events that we plan that we have to provide alerts for so that folks who might be migrants

1219
02:03:24,280 --> 02:03:29,920
 or immigrants know that police might be there because it's necessary sometimes when you

1220
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:35,400
 have events, it's not an option not to have them. So I just wanted to uplift thank you

1221
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:37,080
 for sharing that information.

1222
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:38,080
 Lillian?

1223
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:39,080
 Thanks.

1224
02:03:39,080 --> 02:03:47,080
 I was just going to say thank you, Dr. Neus-Janes, just for all the information. And it's not

1225
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:51,400
 only the undocumented population that has these concerns, it's also people who are naturalized

1226
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:56,280
 citizens and U.S. citizens. Because if a person is going to make an assumption, they're not

1227
02:03:56,280 --> 02:04:00,200
 necessarily going to, you know, I don't have my birth certificate or my passport, you know,

1228
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:05,080
 to show that I'm a U.S. citizen. So it goes to racial profiling. Those are real issues

1229
02:04:05,080 --> 02:04:10,800
 that we have to consider because we wear our identity on our skin, you know. And so I appreciate

1230
02:04:10,800 --> 02:04:13,800
 you bringing that up to the forefront, Mariela.

1231
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:14,800
 Pam?

1232
02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:24,000
 I just wanted to thank you as well, because I don't, we don't want to be afraid. These

1233
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:29,680
 issues have to be brought to the forefront. And I'm very, very appreciative of you bringing

1234
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:33,280
 this to our committee. So I'm very grateful for that. Thank you.

1235
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:34,880
 You're welcome.

1236
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:43,200
 Katina, did you raise your hand? Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Thank you for calling.

1237
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:45,040
 Thank you. Have a good night.

1238
02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:57,840
 All right. And that will, we don't have any more callers in our queue. Do we need any?

1239
02:04:57,840 --> 02:05:08,120
 Can I ask a quick question? Yes. It's probably something I shouldn't have. Can someone tell

1240
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:13,800
 me what's the number of total committee members that we have? And what's the number necessary

1241
02:05:13,800 --> 02:05:18,320
 to reach a quorum?

1242
02:05:18,320 --> 02:05:21,080
 We have 21. Quorum is 11.

1243
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:23,120
 Thank you.

1244
02:05:23,120 --> 02:05:31,360
 Cheryl, this is Mike. Just wanted to mention a point that a first couple of speakers mentioned.

1245
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:37,280
 There is no provision under state law that allows the forfeiture of a pension. If an

1246
02:05:37,280 --> 02:05:42,760
 officer is fired or convicted of a crime, the legislature is going to have to change

1247
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:48,480
 that. Okay.

1248
02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:55,120
 To that point, Mike, I think it would be helpful and Chief Dixon also. There are a lot of issues

1249
02:05:55,120 --> 02:06:00,280
 raised tonight and I imagine they will continue to be raised over this committee's work that

1250
02:06:00,280 --> 02:06:06,440
 are legislative in nature and not of city governance. And so I think there have been

1251
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:12,680
 several points made by several committee members tonight and even in previous meetings about

1252
02:06:12,680 --> 02:06:17,880
 the importance of educating not only ourselves as committee members but also helping to educate

1253
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:23,840
 the public about those differences. Can you start to kind of create, I don't know, sort

1254
02:06:23,840 --> 02:06:29,680
 of an FAQ or whatnot that would list out some of those things so that we can begin sharing

1255
02:06:29,680 --> 02:06:31,280
 that information?

1256
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:39,960
 Sure. Yeah. And I'll talk to the chief. I know and I believe city manager probably knows

1257
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:46,440
 more about this than I do that when the legislature is scheduled to meet, I think the city has

1258
02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:51,360
 its certain things that they want to address and bring to the legislature and I'll bet

1259
02:06:51,360 --> 02:07:01,400
 you that statewide there's going to be some legislation made or presented to the legislature

1260
02:07:01,400 --> 02:07:07,160
 dealing with all kinds of police reforms. The other thing too I forgot to mention, not

1261
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:15,600
 only can we not stop a pension, people had mentioned benefits. If an officer is fired

1262
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:20,480
 they can keep their health benefits for 18 months under COBRA. If someone's injured on

1263
02:07:20,480 --> 02:07:25,680
 duty they're going to keep their workers comp benefits. But if they're fired their vacation

1264
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:31,960
 all that other stuff stops but it would take legislative action on the pension front. Some

1265
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:38,000
 other states do provide forfeiture of a pension if an officer is fired or convicted of a crime

1266
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:43,520
 arising from their job, but that's not in Texas law. But I'll get with the chief and

1267
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:47,740
 we'll certainly put together a list of the types of things that you've talked about from

1268
02:07:47,740 --> 02:07:52,880
 a reform standpoint. My suggestion would be in the recommendations that you make to the

1269
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:56,000
 mayor and council to raise those issues.

1270
02:07:56,000 --> 02:08:02,960
 So those aren't things that the meeting confer can change? Some of them yes. I don't think

1271
02:08:02,960 --> 02:08:13,520
 you can change the pension statute. I don't think we can negotiate a change to that. Yes

1272
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:20,680
 Gary. Mike on that same topic, would it be possible to see what the city advocated for

1273
02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:26,840
 in the most recent previous state legislative session and maybe help us understand what

1274
02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:31,840
 was passed versus what was left on the table that you hope to achieve that you want to

1275
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:38,360
 carry forward this next session. Sure we have a legislative priority booklet that we have

1276
02:08:38,360 --> 02:08:43,080
 the city council debate give us input on and then that's basically our marching orders

1277
02:08:43,080 --> 02:08:46,520
 through the legislative session. So I'll ask Sarah to send it out to the committee just

1278
02:08:46,520 --> 02:08:55,760
 so you get an idea what that looks like. Yes Katina. So in listening to the calls from

1279
02:08:55,760 --> 02:09:05,160
 the citizens, a name that just continued to come up was Darius Tarver. And then the other

1280
02:09:05,160 --> 02:09:15,880
 issue was just what good are we as an ad hoc committee? Like are we worthless or are we

1281
02:09:15,880 --> 02:09:22,600
 doing any good? Those were the two things that came forward and as well as because we

1282
02:09:22,600 --> 02:09:29,400
 do have police officers on the committee and just you know the accountability and if there's

1283
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:36,840
 a bias. And I feel like that we need to flush those three things out a little bit more because

1284
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:45,320
 it's clear and even in the protest Darius's name came up. He was one of the reasons why

1285
02:09:45,320 --> 02:09:54,240
 we were there were 7500 protesters and a thousand protesters and ongoing protests. I really would

1286
02:09:54,240 --> 02:10:01,960
 love for us to consider and if this is possible some type of report to be accountable. I don't

1287
02:10:01,960 --> 02:10:07,640
 know if that's possible because of the investigation but just kind of spelling out and answering

1288
02:10:07,640 --> 02:10:13,640
 some of these questions and things that you know the Dent PD has been challenged on because

1289
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:22,120
 it's a real source of contention. And it's a real sort like it's an issue of like there's

1290
02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:32,360
 an issue of distrust within PD based on Darius's case and the other young man who was killed.

1291
02:10:32,360 --> 02:10:40,320
 And so that's one issue but two I think we the citizens deserve to hear from us as far

1292
02:10:40,320 --> 02:10:46,400
 as just our like what are we doing and our you know accountability to them and that we're

1293
02:10:46,400 --> 02:10:52,520
 not here for optics. And I know that several of us like we you know I know I'm looking

1294
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:58,840
 at faces are very passionate including some on the police force side are very passionate

1295
02:10:58,840 --> 02:11:05,680
 about seeing reform and I think that the people deserve to know like and get those questions

1296
02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:12,760
 answered and you know be comforted knowing that we were not here just for a show. And

1297
02:11:12,760 --> 02:11:19,000
 then what was the other thing I said there were three things. I'm sorry y'all. Well

1298
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:24,560
 let me just say this with regards to and I know that that's everybody's concern is that

1299
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:31,280
 there is Tarver case. Yeah. But at the same time we have to allow due process and it's

1300
02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:37,520
 under investigation and Mike you can jump in if you want to because you're the attorney.

1301
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:44,480
 I don't think that during an investigation we're going to get much information we can

1302
02:11:44,480 --> 02:11:52,240
 take the charges to look at the policies that the department has and based on that and the

1303
02:11:52,240 --> 02:11:59,960
 information that we've received in the presentations and just what we've got here. A couple things

1304
02:11:59,960 --> 02:12:08,240
 I think Jesse probably needs to recuse from this. Okay. If I'm reading your hand right

1305
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:14,760
 is that correct. Yeah. So specifically on that one. Oh there you are. Okay. Yeah I did

1306
02:12:14,760 --> 02:12:21,160
 have a comment in response to Katina's good points that she brought up but specifically

1307
02:12:21,160 --> 02:12:25,480
 if the committee is going to discuss that one case then I would need to I'll just mute

1308
02:12:25,480 --> 02:12:31,480
 my video. Okay. I did have a response to Katina also. Okay. Well you go ahead with your response

1309
02:12:31,480 --> 02:12:36,160
 to Katina Jesse you're probably going to say what I was going to say. Well we might be

1310
02:12:36,160 --> 02:12:41,280
 saying something similar. I just wanted to kind of from the council viewpoint jump in

1311
02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:47,340
 and talk about the thing that the council and the policymakers in Denton really need

1312
02:12:47,340 --> 02:12:54,680
 from this committee the value that y'all bring is in the perspectives and it's the role as

1313
02:12:54,680 --> 02:12:59,680
 it's defined in the resolution that we that we did of course is on use of force. We know

1314
02:12:59,680 --> 02:13:04,880
 that police policies around use of force are necessarily going to be broader than just

1315
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:10,360
 that one topic. We know that use of force is going to necessarily involve a bigger conversation

1316
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:16,040
 but I think it's really important to remember that even though everybody comes from a lot

1317
02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:21,160
 of different perspectives a lot of different backgrounds the folks on the committee that

1318
02:13:21,160 --> 02:13:25,760
 the police on the committee are members of the police associations. Everybody else on

1319
02:13:25,760 --> 02:13:29,080
 your screen that's police associated is not a member of the committee they're just here

1320
02:13:29,080 --> 02:13:33,880
 for for resources they don't have a vote. What council is looking for is a report from

1321
02:13:33,880 --> 02:13:39,340
 y'all on what improvements can be made at the city of Denton what's going well what's

1322
02:13:39,340 --> 02:13:45,920
 not going well specifically on use of force and frankly that's bigger than any one case

1323
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:51,040
 it's bigger than any one agenda some of our callers tonight were associated with certain

1324
02:13:51,040 --> 02:13:56,320
 organizations but you know that y'all this is not just about Black Lives Matter or protests

1325
02:13:56,320 --> 02:14:00,880
 it's about you know getting it right for Denton and Samuel had a really good point when he

1326
02:14:00,880 --> 02:14:05,920
 called in he said what we need is healing and justice and and that's really spot on

1327
02:14:05,920 --> 02:14:12,080
 that's more than just one group's duty that's really on the shoulders of the whole community.

1328
02:14:12,080 --> 02:14:18,040
 So I think as much as it would be helpful for that for the committee to talk about a

1329
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:23,400
 particular incident or a particular case I think the thing the council needs is something

1330
02:14:23,400 --> 02:14:28,120
 that's bigger than that and broader than that and more than just incidents in time even

1331
02:14:28,120 --> 02:14:33,280
 some of our callers talked about you have to be careful with stories and anecdotes that

1332
02:14:33,280 --> 02:14:37,560
 we have to look out is the big the big picture and councils asking you all the big picture

1333
02:14:37,560 --> 02:14:44,480
 questions. Well and I appreciate your response but I just want to clarify because I do think

1334
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:51,920
 that it takes both there are stories and Darius Tarver is a culmination of why we and why

1335
02:14:51,920 --> 02:14:57,560
 we're here. Black Lives Matter it you know yeah it needs to be more than Black Lives

1336
02:14:57,560 --> 02:15:03,320
 Matter but this is where we are because Black Lives haven't mattered and this is why we

1337
02:15:03,320 --> 02:15:09,480
 need to be here. The Black people you know like myself and Kamyon like we're here for

1338
02:15:09,480 --> 02:15:19,280
 because Black Lives haven't mattered and this has been centuries and decades of issues that

1339
02:15:19,280 --> 02:15:25,720
 culminate in some of these stories and Denton has stories and that's one of the issues is

1340
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:33,000
 that so often we think oh Denton such a sweet little college town and we have the best you

1341
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:41,480
 know police chief now we do and but but there are stories that have been untold there didn't

1342
02:15:41,480 --> 02:15:46,080
 record Chronicle is not covering all the stuff that you know the Black Lives Matter people

1343
02:15:46,080 --> 02:15:52,080
 want to talk about you know we become soundbites so these stories are important and integral

1344
02:15:52,080 --> 02:15:58,760
 even though big picture yes you know it needs to be more than just those stories but those

1345
02:15:58,760 --> 02:16:04,080
 stories are part of what we're doing it's a part of the fabric and so I appreciate your

1346
02:16:04,080 --> 02:16:13,000
 response but I just wanted to to clarify. Cheryl if I could I would like to ask Mike

1347
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:18,320
 Cronig to weigh in on the Darius Tarver thing I think we need to hit it head-on and I'd

1348
02:16:18,320 --> 02:16:24,160
 like him to at least educate the committee on the processes we have to follow this isn't

1349
02:16:24,160 --> 02:16:29,880
 something where there's much of a choice for all parties involved but it deserves a response

1350
02:16:29,880 --> 02:16:36,520
 and and I'd like to ask Michael to try to educate everyone as much as we can from the

1351
02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:42,800
 administrative investigation if you remember I think was last week I was talking about

1352
02:16:42,800 --> 02:16:48,640
 the GE material and the confidential that's an ongoing investigation and that is confidential

1353
02:16:48,640 --> 02:16:54,520
 by law at this point and I'll be just right up front with you I don't even know all the

1354
02:16:54,520 --> 02:17:00,480
 facts yet the investigation is ongoing so for the committee really to be talking about

1355
02:17:00,480 --> 02:17:05,480
 what happened without even the chief and me knowing all the facts just as kind of premature

1356
02:17:05,480 --> 02:17:11,360
 at this point so that's from an administrative standpoint but from a criminal standpoint

1357
02:17:11,360 --> 02:17:18,520
 it will be presented to the grand jury at some point and I don't know if that investigation

1358
02:17:18,520 --> 02:17:24,120
 is done we also don't want to taint I think the last thing right might want is a change

1359
02:17:24,120 --> 02:17:31,160
 of venue if there's too much talk and discussion out there if if he's indicted or any other

1360
02:17:31,160 --> 02:17:35,040
 officers then they may want to change a venue and move it because I don't think they can

1361
02:17:35,040 --> 02:17:39,800
 get a fair trial because there's been too much pretrial discussion about it and we don't

1362
02:17:39,800 --> 02:17:45,680
 want to interfere with the district attorney's ability to present that case fairly to the

1363
02:17:45,680 --> 02:17:52,840
 grand jury so chief is there anything you want to add from yours no those are just the

1364
02:17:52,840 --> 02:17:59,240
 concerns at this point I know everyone wants to talk about it but it's just not the appropriate

1365
02:17:59,240 --> 02:18:05,080
 time right now unfortunately well and I appreciate that that response was very helpful I'm not

1366
02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:10,520
 sure I wasn't sure at what stage the case was so that response is extremely helpful

1367
02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:16,460
 thank you yeah it hasn't it hasn't got to the grand jury so if the city takes any position

1368
02:18:16,460 --> 02:18:21,240
 all parties are harmed okay let me let me get to Willie because I just got to pop up

1369
02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:30,680
 that we have a caller and so I'm gonna go to Willie Jamie Lillian and came on and and

1370
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:38,160
 then we're gonna take this caller okay thank you sure Jesse you said something was very

1371
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:46,760
 helpful to me because I I was not really clear as to where we were trying to go with the

1372
02:18:46,760 --> 02:18:53,880
 committee from this for sure from the standpoint of what council needs and so I wish you would

1373
02:18:53,880 --> 02:19:02,120
 Jesse just very quickly again summarize what you would hope what you would like for us

1374
02:19:02,120 --> 02:19:09,960
 to present to you as a committee sure I think what council is looking for and and I think

1375
02:19:09,960 --> 02:19:15,120
 probably the city manager as he oversees the chief and the police department what we're

1376
02:19:15,120 --> 02:19:20,200
 looking for is a report from our citizens on what's working well at the Denton police

1377
02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:26,120
 department where there's room for improvement things that we could be doing better and you

1378
02:19:26,120 --> 02:19:31,320
 know give credit where it's due and and also be unflinching and criticism I think that's

1379
02:19:31,320 --> 02:19:36,640
 only I think that's only fair in this kind of situation situation and I think that's

1380
02:19:36,640 --> 02:19:40,480
 the only way we move forward from this time that we're in is to deal honestly with each

1381
02:19:40,480 --> 02:19:52,960
 other in that way all right thank you

1382
02:19:52,960 --> 02:20:00,800
 Jamie did I say you were next and then Lillian and then came on I don't know I don't know

1383
02:20:00,800 --> 02:20:08,400
 I was just gonna speak to Katina's point about accountability I know that when we had our

1384
02:20:08,400 --> 02:20:14,720
 first meeting we sort of did around Robin introduction of ourselves and it focused on

1385
02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:21,040
 sometimes community activism sometimes our professional lives or some sort of combination

1386
02:20:21,040 --> 02:20:27,520
 of those things but there hasn't really been a space for us to speak out individually about

1387
02:20:27,520 --> 02:20:33,040
 why it is that we felt compelled to agree to this committee because none of us were

1388
02:20:33,040 --> 02:20:40,040
 appointed and and I think there are maybe we were I don't know I wasn't I was asked

1389
02:20:40,040 --> 02:20:46,280
 by the mayor to participate and I had the choice to agree to participate or not and

1390
02:20:46,280 --> 02:20:51,960
 so I think that that kind of information is important to the community because we've heard

1391
02:20:51,960 --> 02:20:57,840
 a couple times tonight either perceptions or misperceptions about how I was committing

1392
02:20:57,840 --> 02:21:04,920
 with organized and feelings that it was too top-down and that we sort of are here on some

1393
02:21:04,920 --> 02:21:11,280
 sort of contrived pretense and I don't I don't think that's true for any of us and so I wondered

1394
02:21:11,280 --> 02:21:15,640
 if there might be space for us to speak to that either in writing or on the web page

1395
02:21:15,640 --> 02:21:27,640
 or something we can do it on the webpage Lillian yes um I wanted to make a couple of points

1396
02:21:27,640 --> 02:21:31,920
 um I'm glad that this is coming up because that was a question that I wanted to to talk

1397
02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:38,320
 about um so Jesse you said you know what council needs what the city manager needs I think

1398
02:21:38,320 --> 02:21:44,160
 that's super important but I also think that each of us as community members that are expected

1399
02:21:44,160 --> 02:21:48,420
 to take the information that we learn here and take it back to our own communities we

1400
02:21:48,420 --> 02:21:53,840
 also have to bring forward what does the community need what is it that they want right um you

1401
02:21:53,840 --> 02:21:59,600
 also talked about you know what's working well or give credit or credit it's due I hope

1402
02:21:59,600 --> 02:22:04,320
 that that's not only as it pertains to use of force because that would then then we need

1403
02:22:04,320 --> 02:22:07,720
 to be having a very different conversation and only concentrate on that if we're talking

1404
02:22:07,720 --> 02:22:11,680
 about the department as a whole what's working you know well it's with the department as

1405
02:22:11,680 --> 02:22:16,080
 a whole I think that that's more along the lines of what we're doing um I come back to

1406
02:22:16,080 --> 02:22:20,080
 the accountability piece when we were talking about you know that's that's the legislature

1407
02:22:20,080 --> 02:22:24,200
 we need to go you know talk to the legislature and I asked okay well can that be changed

1408
02:22:24,200 --> 02:22:29,560
 you know with an income fair and then it dawned on me that why with the police department

1409
02:22:29,560 --> 02:22:35,080
 and the and the police association made up of police officers bring up something like

1410
02:22:35,080 --> 02:22:38,880
 that to where they're going to lose pension and they're going to lose benefits right because

1411
02:22:38,880 --> 02:22:43,440
 they're being held accountable for something that they do the only people whose interests

1412
02:22:43,440 --> 02:22:48,320
 I would serve is the community and so that's why I think that a lot of us keep on bringing

1413
02:22:48,320 --> 02:22:54,160
 up the point that we need a community oversight committee whether it's on use of force whether

1414
02:22:54,160 --> 02:23:00,520
 it's to do you know to deal with the being confer um you know it at any level I think

1415
02:23:00,520 --> 02:23:04,200
 that that's been the point that's missing and I think that's the point that is uncomfortable

1416
02:23:04,200 --> 02:23:09,000
 at the beginning of this um Willie I'm not picking on you because I love you but but

1417
02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:12,400
 you said um you know how do I even know it's true you know and we're quick to question

1418
02:23:12,400 --> 02:23:17,320
 when a community person comes up and says something because we might not ever experience

1419
02:23:17,320 --> 02:23:22,520
 but that's the way that I've been approaching the numbers and the the anecdotal uh statements

1420
02:23:22,520 --> 02:23:26,760
 that some of the police are telling me you know if I don't ask clarifying questions I

1421
02:23:26,760 --> 02:23:32,440
 hope that I'm not being perceived as combative or that I'm nitpicking I just if I say if

1422
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:37,640
 if someone tells me there's 14 use of force um and only three were sustained and I just

1423
02:23:37,640 --> 02:23:42,040
 sit there and say okay and I don't ask a question then that defeats the purpose of me even being

1424
02:23:42,040 --> 02:23:46,600
 on this committee I want to know why was it sustained who brought the complaint who ruled

1425
02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:51,160
 that it was sustained and why were the other 14 not you know and so those are the things

1426
02:23:51,160 --> 02:23:58,320
 that I think we need to hold our department at a higher standard of accountability than

1427
02:23:58,320 --> 02:24:03,080
 even the citizens does that make sense and so I just want to bring all that up because

1428
02:24:03,080 --> 02:24:07,760
 I think that there's lots of things that we need to flush out but I think the overall

1429
02:24:07,760 --> 02:24:13,640
 thing is that we need more citizen input we need more citizen oversight we need more citizen

1430
02:24:13,640 --> 02:24:17,920
 investment right and we need more of these voices to come in and and kind of share the

1431
02:24:17,920 --> 02:24:22,880
 information that that we're hearing and that all these conversations are happening so you

1432
02:24:22,880 --> 02:24:26,680
 know I wanted I wanted to say that because I think that it's really easy to get lost

1433
02:24:26,680 --> 02:24:30,080
 because there is a lot but the one thing that I keep hearing and the one thing that I'm

1434
02:24:30,080 --> 02:24:34,280
 going to make sure that council knows at least for my part is that we need citizen oversight

1435
02:24:34,280 --> 02:24:46,360
 cam man were you next sure I am um I don't know if I have my thoughts fully formed uh

1436
02:24:46,360 --> 02:24:53,880
 but thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts I just wanted to share that um I do agree

1437
02:24:53,880 --> 02:24:59,680
 that Jessie said that all of us were brought here because of our perspectives and I wanted

1438
02:24:59,680 --> 02:25:03,600
 to uplift what Jamie said that we haven't actually been able to share what those perspectives

1439
02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:11,360
 are um or I wanted to also uplift like what a caller mentioned around like are we going

1440
02:25:11,360 --> 02:25:17,200
 to be able to share our perspectives around um police and police force or our experiences

1441
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:22,960
 because that is probably one of the reasons I joined this committee are due to my experiences

1442
02:25:22,960 --> 02:25:26,920
 but I don't know if I'm allowed to share those in this space so I'm wondering if there's

1443
02:25:26,920 --> 02:25:34,040
 going to be space for that um I also wanted to share along the lines of what Lillian was

1444
02:25:34,040 --> 02:25:39,120
 saying is that all of us most of us on the first meeting mentioned that we're community

1445
02:25:39,120 --> 02:25:46,480
 members that are well engaged with um community activism and that we're not just accountable

1446
02:25:46,480 --> 02:25:51,400
 for the work that we're doing on this committee but we are accountable to the committee the

1447
02:25:51,400 --> 02:25:57,040
 community and so they are looking to us these are people we were chosen because we're community

1448
02:25:57,040 --> 02:26:03,120
 leaders I think I think that's why I was brought on um and so we're we're accountable to the

1449
02:26:03,120 --> 02:26:08,040
 communities in which we serve and so if we're not bringing up things we aren't necessarily

1450
02:26:08,040 --> 02:26:12,680
 meaning to be contentious but if we aren't bringing up things that are questionable to

1451
02:26:12,680 --> 02:26:17,640
 us or that affect our communities then we're not going to be able to make a difference

1452
02:26:17,640 --> 02:26:23,680
 here and I also want to uplift um I'm glad that Katina brought up some themes that you

1453
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:31,160
 saw I saw themes around racial profiling I saw themes around immigration um and profiling

1454
02:26:31,160 --> 02:26:37,560
 those individuals I heard so many themes around mental health so whether or not we are able

1455
02:26:37,560 --> 02:26:42,640
 to talk about Darius Tarver and what's going on with that case the number one theme around

1456
02:26:42,640 --> 02:26:49,720
 that case is mental health concerns and how police um use of force is used around those

1457
02:26:49,720 --> 02:26:55,080
 situations and that's something that the committee needs to definitely uplift I also want to

1458
02:26:55,080 --> 02:27:02,320
 bring back up um two other things only two other things um I want to bring back up the

1459
02:27:02,320 --> 02:27:08,200
 idea of these stories that we're hearing and that are being shared and how we could support

1460
02:27:08,200 --> 02:27:14,480
 community members that are sharing these stories is it possible for us to have um some sort

1461
02:27:14,480 --> 02:27:21,880
 of counselor on on hold for folks after they are on a call that they can process things

1462
02:27:21,880 --> 02:27:27,400
 with after they're done speaking with us um just to make sure that we're not doing additional

1463
02:27:27,400 --> 02:27:33,520
 harm to folks that are calling in and um the last thing I want to mention is like I heard

1464
02:27:33,520 --> 02:27:40,640
 that this is not just Black Lives Matters and I agree that this goes far beyond just

1465
02:27:40,640 --> 02:27:45,200
 black lives because there are many lives that are affected by police I've heard a lot about

1466
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:53,400
 those um but I want to mention that like for me and probably for many community members

1467
02:27:53,400 --> 02:27:57,760
 this committee was put together after a large amount of protest around the movement for

1468
02:27:57,760 --> 02:28:03,200
 black lives after the murder of a community member that was black that had mental health

1469
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:09,440
 issues so for community members these things are intertwined and they might be intertwined

1470
02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:15,040
 also for members of this committee and so we can't discount that as a reason that we're

1471
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:20,560
 here and it is literally a reason why people are calling in as we've heard and it needs

1472
02:28:20,560 --> 02:28:26,640
 to be discussed so those are my last two things to mention.

1473
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:40,400
 Okay um does anybody else um who does anybody else have anything we say before we adjourn?

1474
02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:41,400
 Go ahead Todd.

1475
02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:46,640
 Yeah Cheryl thank you um I think the Kamians points those are really good points we we have

1476
02:28:46,640 --> 02:28:52,160
 been uh doing our best to try to bring information to the table to help educate the committee

1477
02:28:52,160 --> 02:28:56,120
 and and you know try to share some of the progress that we're making but I think that

1478
02:28:56,120 --> 02:29:01,000
 is an excellent idea if we could get ask all of you that if we're not hitting some of the

1479
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:05,080
 subjects you want us to hit because we're building these agendas it would be very helpful

1480
02:29:05,080 --> 02:29:08,900
 for us to know what you would like to learn about what you'd like to hear about with with

1481
02:29:08,900 --> 02:29:13,920
 regard to this I mean the policies are dry they're important uh we've overwhelmed you

1482
02:29:13,920 --> 02:29:19,560
 with a lot of information about uh chapter 143 our meet and confer that sort of thing

1483
02:29:19,560 --> 02:29:24,960
 um but but we're really trying to to get our pulse on on what you would like to know and

1484
02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:29,920
 I think it would be helpful to email uh Sarah myself Chief Dixon just say hey at the next

1485
02:29:29,920 --> 02:29:33,680
 meeting or two can we please address these topics and we're happy to do whatever you

1486
02:29:33,680 --> 02:29:37,880
 want.

1487
02:29:37,880 --> 02:29:43,300
 Just a quick question is was this uh portion was it still going um like could people still

1488
02:29:43,300 --> 02:29:45,800
 view it at real time?

1489
02:29:45,800 --> 02:29:50,120
 Yes uh I think we had said that we were cutting the meeting down at are you talking about

1490
02:29:50,120 --> 02:29:51,120
 tonight?

1491
02:29:51,120 --> 02:29:57,960
 Yes like is this time that we're having discussion um is it still showing for citizens?

1492
02:29:57,960 --> 02:30:02,520
 It will still show for citizens we'll have it recorded and uh we're just kind of we're

1493
02:30:02,520 --> 02:30:07,160
 wrapping up in accordance with your 8 30 um deadline and just trying to get your input

1494
02:30:07,160 --> 02:30:11,800
 on what you would like how do you like us to spend your time in the next few weeks?

1495
02:30:11,800 --> 02:30:38,160
 Cheryl did we talk so long that the caller hung up you're muted

1496
02:30:38,160 --> 02:30:41,720
 your headphone or something isn't working maybe unplug it and try to talk through the

1497
02:30:41,720 --> 02:30:42,720
 computer.

1498
02:31:11,720 --> 02:31:25,400
 Well she's figuring that out um um Mike can you help me understand um the open meeting

1499
02:31:25,400 --> 02:31:33,480
 act um if if I are we allowed to talk to someone else on the committee if it's not a quorum?

1500
02:31:33,480 --> 02:31:37,960
 No you need a quorum in order to have um for the committee to meet.

1501
02:31:37,960 --> 02:31:43,960
 No but if it's just a conversation then guess is what I'm asking like are we allowed to

1502
02:31:43,960 --> 02:31:48,840
 have private conversations as members regarding committee business is that what you're asking

1503
02:31:48,840 --> 02:31:49,840
 Lillian?

1504
02:31:49,840 --> 02:32:00,720
 Yes yes I think I'll defer to Sarah she wants to answer that if she can well I kind of wanted

1505
02:32:00,720 --> 02:32:09,680
 to know what's the law not what we might refer as as as citizens we're not elected officials

1506
02:32:09,680 --> 02:32:16,480
 we're not anything so are we not allowed to do that yes we can yes we can talk to each

1507
02:32:16,480 --> 02:32:22,980
 other yes okay oh well Mike and Sarah do y'all want to because that that's something that's

1508
02:32:22,980 --> 02:32:29,360
 of concern to me I want to know that are you talking are you talking about in this meeting

1509
02:32:29,360 --> 02:32:34,720
 setting here or just outside no like let's say I go grab coffee with Gary because Gary's

1510
02:32:34,720 --> 02:32:39,200
 a nice guy and I and you know we talk about we debrief what we talked about and you know

1511
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:44,240
 that's fine yeah that's yeah I thought you meant if you didn't have a quorum for this

1512
02:32:44,240 --> 02:32:48,520
 meeting could you then proceed into okay I misunderstood you and is there and is there

1513
02:32:48,520 --> 02:32:52,600
 a sign on a number like what about what about if five of us went out to get coffee that's

1514
02:32:52,600 --> 02:33:02,040
 fine and you guys hear me oh okay thanks sorry go ahead is that fine we would probably just

1515
02:33:02,040 --> 02:33:06,720
 you know discourage as you get larger larger groups because you know because then it's

1516
02:33:06,720 --> 02:33:10,520
 going to be perceived that you're working outside of the committee I mean if if a couple

1517
02:33:10,520 --> 02:33:15,960
 of you want to go grab a bite to eat or a coffee or whatever I think that's fine but

1518
02:33:15,960 --> 02:33:20,920
 you know part of the benefit of this committee is is the transparency with which we're operating

1519
02:33:20,920 --> 02:33:24,880
 and all the questions that you're asking that sort of thing so I think it's going to be

1520
02:33:24,880 --> 02:33:28,960
 in the eye of the beholder if they see a large group of folks working outside of the committee

1521
02:33:28,960 --> 02:33:33,080
 I think the optics sometimes aren't great and I would probably encourage you if it's

1522
02:33:33,080 --> 02:33:46,120
 more than one or two people don't do it it would be only if you exceeded a quorum that's

1523
02:33:46,120 --> 02:33:54,600
 that would be appropriate okay can you hear me now yes okay next week I'm gonna get you

1524
02:33:54,600 --> 02:33:59,000
 Rhonda I just want to remind you next week we're gonna have calls as well so we'll do

1525
02:33:59,000 --> 02:34:08,000
 the first 30 minutes no Sarah no sorry the next meeting is on July 30th we had planned

1526
02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:13,920
 to finish the use of force policies but we'll reconvene we'll see if there's any other topics

1527
02:34:13,920 --> 02:34:18,520
 that we received from committee members kind of kind of try to plan out or sketch out the

1528
02:34:18,520 --> 02:34:22,520
 next few meetings for the committee and get your feedback make sure that we are covering

1529
02:34:22,520 --> 02:34:28,240
 the topics that you want to hear about and then we have off there is no meeting the week

1530
02:34:28,240 --> 02:34:34,320
 of Thursday August 6 there is no meeting so that is a break in the schedule but the next

1531
02:34:34,320 --> 02:34:39,520
 meeting will be on July 30th then second public input session that we had planned on the calendar

1532
02:34:39,520 --> 02:34:47,800
 is for August 20th and so we will leave open the online form so residents can continue

1533
02:34:47,800 --> 02:34:53,240
 to submit comments throughout the next month we'll periodically send reports to the committee

1534
02:34:53,240 --> 02:34:59,440
 members so you have all those comments and can digest continue to digest and review those

1535
02:34:59,440 --> 02:35:04,880
 and then we will have the second input session with the phone in on August 20th we can put

1536
02:35:04,880 --> 02:35:09,480
 on the next agenda if the committee wants to discuss altering that public input session

1537
02:35:09,480 --> 02:35:15,520
 at all based upon the first session that we've experienced here thank you Sarah okay Willie

1538
02:35:15,520 --> 02:35:21,600
 you had a comment and then we're gonna adjourn the meeting yes as the chair I would make

1539
02:35:21,600 --> 02:35:29,120
 a recommendation that you direct this meeting a different direction just my own preference

1540
02:35:29,120 --> 02:35:35,000
 I'm tired of all the charts and people talking about things that are not helping me to reach

1541
02:35:35,000 --> 02:35:44,080
 the conclusion that Jesse is saying the council wants us to reach I also agree with the comments

1542
02:35:44,080 --> 02:35:49,080
 that somewhere and this is what we are to be talking about instead of all these charts

1543
02:35:49,080 --> 02:35:54,880
 what the members have said you need to know why I'm on this committee you just need to

1544
02:35:54,880 --> 02:36:00,760
 know I mean all of us so that then we can then understand where we're coming from and

1545
02:36:00,760 --> 02:36:05,800
 I think with knowing those two things and that we start talking and listen to the public

1546
02:36:05,800 --> 02:36:10,640
 more heck that's what we need to do listen to what the public is talking to us about

1547
02:36:10,640 --> 02:36:14,960
 instead of the church so like again like I said I don't follow and I don't see what they

1548
02:36:14,960 --> 02:36:20,800
 have to do what we're doing listen to what the public says and then let us respond to

1549
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:26,760
 each other like we're doing then we can reach where Jesse is saying that the council wants

1550
02:36:26,760 --> 02:36:34,800
 us to the position that they need us to to communicate with them we are in and lastly

1551
02:36:34,800 --> 02:36:44,720
 we don't we we I'm a rules guy and if I hear you saying we are not really after telling

1552
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:50,680
 the police that the rules that they're using as far as forces of concern is what they want

1553
02:36:50,680 --> 02:36:55,640
 to hear why in the world are we still talking about it then that's not what they're asking

1554
02:36:55,640 --> 02:37:01,720
 us to communicate to them they want us to say what is the rules and how they're being

1555
02:37:01,720 --> 02:37:07,520
 enforced according to what we think and what do we suggest that we do well we don't need

1556
02:37:07,520 --> 02:37:15,640
 any more charts for that out there Rhonda yes I'd like to ask the chief question about

1557
02:37:15,640 --> 02:37:20,800
 uh is do you have any alternatives when you arrest someone and put them in jail do you

1558
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:26,640
 have any alternatives to the county which has the covid problem we don't have any alternatives

1559
02:37:26,640 --> 02:37:32,960
 other than holding them at our facility and if they're not going to be able to bond out

1560
02:37:32,960 --> 02:37:38,720
 they have to go over to the county all right thank you I'll just ask a question or say

1561
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:43,360
 something real quick um as far as the charts Mr. Willie I understand what you're saying

1562
02:37:43,360 --> 02:37:50,960
 but some of us are data analysts and they're very helpful in helping us to work through

1563
02:37:50,960 --> 02:37:55,840
 some of these things I know that all of us have our personal preferences in which way

1564
02:37:55,840 --> 02:38:01,080
 in ways which you know things should be shared but I feel like all of the information that

1565
02:38:01,080 --> 02:38:06,800
 we've been getting up to this point has been helpful for the group as a whole because it's

1566
02:38:06,800 --> 02:38:16,240
 not about one single person Lillian did you have your hand up no I was just I was just

1567
02:38:16,240 --> 02:38:24,640
 agreeing I need the information I need the data me too cameo okay can we adjourn now

1568
02:38:24,640 --> 02:38:39,480
 no let me say I stand corrected I stand corrected well hey I'm just here I stand corrected did

1569
02:38:39,480 --> 02:38:46,920
 we lose the last caller Willie if I were you I would just agree with her right now okay

1570
02:38:46,920 --> 02:38:52,480
 you don't have to agree with us we just offer a different perspective just like you offered

1571
02:38:52,480 --> 02:39:00,440
 a different perspective like okay hey I'm just I'm just subhuman all right just kidding

1572
02:39:00,440 --> 02:39:10,040
 just kidding just kidding don't you forget that you're supposed to love me all right

1573
02:39:10,040 --> 02:39:18,960
 so we're gonna we're gonna adjourn this meeting you guys are being recorded so the last caller

1574
02:39:18,960 --> 02:39:27,640
 didn't hang up yeah okay okay all right well thank you guys we'll see you next next Thursday

1575
02:39:27,640 --> 02:39:32,040
 bye y'all bye good morning everybody