Jul 17, 2020 Public Art Committee on 2020-07-17 3:00 PM (SPECIAL CALLED MEETING)

Good afternoon, everyone. We are here on the July 17th Public Art Committee meeting for the City of Denton, and we are going to go ahead and get started with assistance from the wonderful Jessica Rogers. And Jessica, just check with me. I am filling in for Monet as co-chair and Terry Nobles is our other absence, right? And Terry just joined us. Oh, excellent. Okay, so we're all here but Monet. Okay, so let's get started. Do we have anybody who is online who is going to make any comments today? Nope, I just heard from our remote staff member that we have no callers, so this is a very high tech meeting today. It's going to make things so much easier, but I mean, I love it when people have comments, but I haven't done this in a couple years. Okay, so the first item is going to be 2A, which is to consider the approval of the minutes from our last meeting on June 22nd. Have you all read those minutes and who would care to approve them? I move to approve. So, who will approve and who is seconding it? I will. All right, and Nick volunteers to second. Can I, I'm going to do a roll call like we're going to do for everything today. Yes. So I'm going to vote to approve the minutes, Nick. Aye. Meredith. Aye. Alicia. Alicia. Okay, Jody. Aye. Fred. Aye. Terry. Aye. Ed. Aye. And Georgina. Aye. Okay, so the approval of the minutes passes. Let's move on to section B, which is to report discussion and give staff direction about some temporary art programs and associated program guidelines. Jessica, you're on. Yes. So at our last meeting, our member Alicia brought up that we hadn't gone back to our temporary art discussion in a while, so we wanted to bring this up to the committee. I didn't put together a presentation. We had kind of gone through different programs and had that discussion I think back in January, which seems like five years ago. So I provided in your packet a copy of the draft temporary art guidelines that we've been working on. Again, we kind of are just picking them back up where we were. I'm happy to put them up on the screen, but what we wanted to do was one, get feedback from the committee if this is a program that we still want to pursue, and then two, just kind of have some general discussion. Alicia is so willing. We talked about it yesterday. She has some experience with these types of programs and maybe can walk the committee through some different options and different ideas that you may want to consider kind of moving forward. And so with that, I may just turn it over to Alicia to kind of walk through her experience and and some of the things we talked about yesterday before my laptop so rudely died on us in the middle of our conversation. Thanks, Jessica. Hi everybody. So, I guess, the reason that I'm interested in a temporary public art program is because I think it. It has a couple of upsides. One is that I think anytime we put a work of art in a public place, and it's expected to be permanent, which number one I don't think really exists, anyway, right. So there's all these expectations on what it's going to accomplish and what materials that has to be made of and, you know, everyone has in the community having to like it or buy into it. If you look at public artwork. I think everyone involved gets to take a little bit more risks right so the artist gets to take some more risks in terms of the content or the materials, and then the community gets to, you know, see things and buy into things that they might not feel comfortable doing if that word permanent was attached to it. And then when you. And then I think that another upside is that it costs less. So, there are a lot of temporary public art programs in different cities around the country, where the, the artist already has the artwork, and all the city has to pay for is, you know, a stipend of 1500 or $2,000 for the artist to deliver and install the work. And then of course, obviously some probably site preparation expenses as well. But, so, so we get kind of a rotating public art collection that brings new things to the city all the time for much lower cost. And then we also kind of put Denton on the maps in terms of having something on display that people might want to come see but also it puts Denton on the map for artists as well because if this becomes like an annual event or a semi annual event, artists will know of this opportunity and kind of keep it on the radars and apply for it. So there are many different kinds of models for temporary public art programs and Jessica was saying we won't really have any money to do anything this year but maybe it was a good idea to get the conversation started and put a packet or like a plan together so that when we do have hot funds to spend, we can kind of hit the ground running right away. And one of the ideas that Jessica and I talked about yesterday was potentially like a sculpture garden, or we could identify different sites around town, where we could put pads or pedestals for sculptures to be put up easily bolted to concrete and then taken away when the exhibition is over. And then we could also identify other kinds of sites where concrete pads might not be necessary, maybe there could be murals that get painted over every so often or something like that. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what else I was gonna say I now have children in the background. Sorry about that. So, so actually, Jessica asked me to talk about my personal experience. I've done several different temporary public art kind of festivals. One was in Australia, just to show like how far reaching I've gone in terms of exhibiting work temporarily and then bringing it home. And then one in Sydney, Australia, but most recently I did one in South Carolina in the Outer Banks kind of area, or I forget exactly where it was but it was in South Carolina, and that it was more of a sculpture park kind of a setting so there was a big public park with all these concrete pads, and the artists were each paid $2,000 to set up a sculpture for a year and then to go and take it down and then, in addition to displaying the sculptures for a year and giving the artists, each $2,000 stipend. We actually then also had a purchase award, so that also I think made it so that more artists wanted to apply because all of our work was for sale when it was on display, so that any kind of individual if they saw saw something that they really liked and wanted for their party they could potentially buy it. But also the city ended up buying one of the sculptures that was on display, and adding that to their collection at the end of the exhibition. So, so yeah that's kind of my experience. It's been really positive so I think it's, it's something I would love to see, try to like find a way to bring something like that to Denton. I'm going to, Alicia we love your earrings, your earring is hitting your microphone and that's the clicking that we're hearing. Sorry I just wanted to let you know so for everyone that's that's what that sounded. It took us a while to get there, figure out what was thought it was me. But, yes, so I think that we've had a lot of positive feedback from the committee about pursuing this. We did make the decision as we explained during the hot funds and discussion that a lot of the primary hot funds. Challenge this year is that we have less hot funds than we have had in other years and so we have to be very selective about which projects we pursue. We've prioritized the Denton women's interracial fellowship monument as sort of the project that we needed those funds to go towards. If there wasn't a grant that came through or if we needed the additional funding that that was sort of the primary goal. And so with that there's definitely a funding challenge in the immediate timeframe for a temporary art program, with the exception, at least in terms of what could be given in a stipend we're not really in a position to do that today. And I'm not sure when we might be in a position to do that so I want that to be kind of clear with the committee, because we can't use any of the bond funds for temporary arts, and those have to go to installed pieces so there is a budget challenge, but one thing that we've been thinking about is if we can continue to work through the program and the funds and getting feedback from all and get the program ready to go, we'll, we'll have it ready and then can just hit the start button when the funds become available. So we want to continue this conversation with the committee if it's something that the committee wants to continue to pursue. But I want to make sure everyone is aware of kind of the challenges and where we are right now. I hadn't, I've actually been thinking about this long before I was on the public art committee but, and I think this would go really well with Alicia's idea to do temporary art because in with my idea it would sort of have to be temporary or like seasonal, but I've always kind of wondered how to be inclusive of public art for those that are like visually impaired. Things like that and maybe a temporary like public art piece would be something that could be for those or would include those who are visually impaired with something that's super an artist who makes, you know, predominantly like tactile or aromatic work or, you know, something that would be, you know, seasonal for spring in Texas or, I don't know, maybe that's too absurd, but I don't know just kind of my idea that I've always had to try to like, you know, what about people who can't visually see things and they're not supposed to touch the things like that. But I think that's a really interesting idea. And I think what's cool about the temporary public art idea is that if it was an annual opportunity, like each year could have a different kind of a theme so that could be one of the themes potentially is that one year that all of the either one artwork or several artworks all have that like that aspect to them that they're accessible to the two people who can't see as well. That's great. Yeah, I didn't I didn't ever feel like it could be something permanent but with your idea to do a temporary piece like it seems like obvious and I, you know, maybe not. Maybe it wouldn't be as expensive. I don't know. Just an idea. Michelle you're on mute. I didn't do that. Part of our pre qualified artists was to look, some of the artists we chose did seem to have light and and a temporal or temporary things as part of their, the pictures they submitted. So I love that Meredith and Alicia to this, this is fantastic. Does anyone else want to add anything to the conversation. Nobody. Nothing else. I think all the ideas that have been expressed are great. Wow. So, so we talked about risk taking, and what a wonderful idea that was we talked about how we can have different sites I know that Alicia before you joined us we had talked extensively about having the industrial park site, be accessible to to art that was temporary in in nature that we would have even students of K 12, or collegiate level to be able to display there. I know that our wraps of the electrical boxes has been something that was our first endeavor towards temporal stuff. And this is all a wonderful idea Meredith the idea of tactile and multi sensory work. If you look through some of those artists that we've got on the pre qualified list there are some people who specialize in that. So this is wonderful. So can we, as far as giving staff direction, does anybody want to give an input on that. I would like I think that Gary has one. Sorry, go ahead. Go for it. Terry. Gary. Sorry Gary packing is with us. Oh, Gary's with us. Hi, guys. I can, I've been trying to find it to see if I could bring it up, but I think it's on a external hard drive at the office. We did one with the city of Arlington that was temporary. And it was, they were three year contracts, it was either 1500 or $2,500 that the amount escapes me. And then we gave them a stipend for installation. And we identified. It's Richard green linear park and it's the park that actually runs between globe life park and Cowboys Stadium AT&T Stadium. It's, it's the pond area and all that there's a linear trail that goes around there and we created what we call rooms or pods throughout that space. And we put in various sizes of concrete foundations, whether they were flat on the ground or a cube, kind of similar what we did with the yellow cube. And then when we sent out the request we said here's the space we have with a map. And here's the foundation size that it has to fit. And then they came in, and they mounted it and then we put a plaque on the concrete. And then if they sold it. I think it was 15% and I have to dig up the contract. If they sold it during that three year period, the 15% of that sale would go back to the sculpture trail, so we can kind of reinvest. They had to put another sculpture in its place to finish that term. Now, the Rangers got a new stadium and chewed up a lot of that space so some of that trails gone, but I think there might be a couple pieces still there. So they they had to shuffle some art around because of the construction, but I'll dig up that map and share it with you guys. It was, I mean it's a huge space because of the entertainment district in Arlington in the stadiums, but I think that fits exactly what Lisa was talking about in regards to, you know, having a set trail in place and having these locations and, and you could basically send out an RFP and say we're looking for a piece of art that's this foundation and this size. And here's the amount of money. What do you want to do. And it was that simple and then we just went through they were all pre manufactured pieces of art, and we had a subcommittee just picked them and and moved forward so it can happen fairly quickly. Cool. Anyone else want to offer a comment or discussion an idea. I just thought just thinking of the, like, multi sensory or specifically like an aromatic if, if, if we were to choose something, or if we if we put out like an idea or a, what do you call it a prompt or, you know, something for artists. They, I don't know if like a collaboration with like North Texas master gardeners or something, you know, that could lead I'm just I like I think I tend to think about tour. Collaborations and things like that so if an artist is wanting to use plants or things that would last all seasons but they're like I don't. Maybe they're not from Texas or not from North Texas, they have a brown thumb they don't know how to, you know, work the area. How to make things grow things like that or, or keep things, you know, they don't know what's fragrant or whatnot whatever. Maybe that would be an option is to kind of, you know, put them in touch or ask for volunteers that would like to work with an artist and, you know, give them their kind of medium to to have their, their vision, come to life I guess but just one more thought. That's all. I was also thinking, like to go along with your thought Meredith. Thinking about engaging the other senses. I feel like the temporary public art program is also a way to engage other other arts disciplines. So, you know, in addition to creating concrete pads and certain places where a sculpture can be, you know, installed in a way. There's maybe also potential to like install sound systems in different places and have sound installations, or, you know, performance art is obviously very temporary, but there could be, you know, performance art as well so I feel like it kind of opens the door and I know that's been expressed by the committee in the past as well as like Denton is already a great place for music, how can we embrace that in the public art committee more so I feel like we I feel like with our connections as a committee to the people that we know in our community that we are in a really good place in so far as could we do something that would involve a dance or theater department could we involve something that would include maybe some sort of visual filmmaking and yes definitely we have, we as a committee have a very strong connection, not only to master gardeners and master foresters but to the city committees that oversee those so all of this is wonderful I guess the next question is then, since we're supposed to give staff direction. Do we want to make this a continuing agenda item, or do we want to say a quarterly agenda item. Everything moves so slowly at a city pace, but our hot funds are spoken for now, but will not be next year do we want to start, maybe brains, form a committee or just generally get together and discuss ideas how do we start coming up with a pool of ideas from which to choose from there, there are so many good ideas here. Okay, would that be okay if we just said maybe we make this a monthly agenda item and we may or may not address it until we get to a point where we have funding and a critical mass of time and space and interest, what do y'all think. From a staff perspective I think that it makes sense to, you know, we can kind of, we have all of the ideas and kind of go back and think through our processes and locations, and what might be a good first step. I would say let's not try and solve all problems at once so let's maybe focus on kind of the ideas that we have here and think through how we could make those functional at different locations. And certainly come back to the committee as often as we need to if we need to come back monthly to kind of work through process and work through those ideas, but I think we have a good number of ideas. Right now, that we could start putting together a plan and and go from there I mean I all of these ideas are wonderful and yeah I mean I wish we could do all of them tomorrow. Great. And I so. Okay, well let's let's do this, can we say then that we can make this a recurring monthly monthly agenda item, which months may come where we just say we have nothing to add to this yet, we're all just kind of in the developmental stage, but then that it will be recurring to the point that when we get towards 2021 and we know how much hot funds we have and we maybe have an artist or a concept or two that really touches our hearts will be ready to talk about it and we can just maintain it and say whether we address it or not, month per month we can just say oh we don't have anything to add. I think so too. I like it. We can add it to. We've been putting the, you'll see it again today the presentation that I have all of the ongoing projects and kind of the status so we can add it to that and just keep having that discussion as part of that item. That's not a challenge. Okay, Jessica, do we need to vote on giving you direction to this aspect or are we good. No, you don't need to vote on this one. I sometimes the rules of order are so hard. Okay, so then are we prepared to move on to item C. Or does anyone else have any great ideas you want to add right now. I will add if you think of anything, don't hesitate to call me or email me like I think I told this one of the subcommittees yesterday is my best ideas always come at 3am in the middle of the night and so I'll email myself real quick if I think of something so don't think you have to hold on to it till next month I think everyone knows how to get a hold of me so please share it. If you do think of something or you have an experience that sparks an idea. This is so exciting I love the idea of being able to take risks on something that won't last forever, and maybe giving artists opportunities who may not qualify for a big enormous project but here's something that could give them their, their foothold in the door that's a really exciting idea to me. All right, so can I add one more thing. Sorry. I love this idea of like having an ongoing list of ideas like the sculpture park, the multi sensory the sound installation, etc. Because I think when it comes time next year, and we find out how much funding we do have. We can look at that list of ideas and say like, Okay, based on this amount of funding. I think the only thing we could afford to do is install speakers somewhere so that there could be sound. And then, you know, and that would be what we do that year, versus other years, maybe we have more funding to do something more ambitious sorry it's so loud. Excellent. So, so we are all on the same page we're all really excited about this, and we will continue the discussion next month. Um, let's move on to item see then if everyone's ready to receive a report hold discussion and give staff direction about the use of budgeted project funds for artists proposals. Yes. So, some of you know what this item is about because you're on the subcommittee that discussed it. The subcommittees on our projects talked about that we did not include any funding for the artists to prepare proposals in the budget or the project plans and so they wanted to bring this to the full committee for a discussion on whether we wanted to use the budgeted project funds to pay for the artists proposal so it could be a nominal amount, it could be $500. But something that pays the artists for their time of that proposal and so in your packet I outlined the, the process that we go through and so, and just kind of working through this, we select an artist from the pre qualified list, we would request a proposal that could either be accepted or denied if we said no this isn't what we wanted and this artist isn't going to meet our needs we could start over or we could request an updated proposal from that artist if we just needed some changes made to it, then at that point we would negotiate the contract, the contract would be approved by the Public Art Committee and City Council and then the first payment would be made to the artist so this is similar to how the MLK project was is that we did the RFQ process we negotiated the contract, and then Madeline was paid after the contract was executed for the full work of the proposal. So, that's how we have operated in the past, this would allow us to pay a small stipend to the artist. Before we got to that contract for the proposal for their time to develop something that the committee could review now we wouldn't be asking for schematics we wouldn't be asking for architectural detail at that time but maybe just the initial proposal for the committee to review. So, again, I think the committee those subcommittee members that were in that discussion can tell me all of the ways I got this one a little bit wrong but I think it was a nominal fee of about $500. If we look at other public art programs. I think typically the, the fee is around $1500 actually. I was looking at a call for an RFQ for the city of Houston recently, where it was like, first the RFQ and then they would choose three finalists they would pay each of those three finalists $1500 to do a proposal. And then they would choose the final artists from that. But, so I think, typically it's more like 1500 but it also depends on the scope and the budget. Alicia that was my question does it like if Houston being sizably more affluent and bigger than us has larger public art projects something that, for example, what we're looking at with the, with the current project we have now. I see spending if we had three proposals that's almost $5,000, just to pick our favorite one. Is it. I also don't think you need to do this. Okay, but is it scalable like are we saying if we have a hundred thousand dollar project versus a half a million dollar project versus a $10,000 project, we would certainly be able to just do we just kind of name our price or is there a going percentage or what Georgina you're on mute. I have a similar concern that Michelle raises, I wouldn't make a comparison between Houston and didn't they're very different arenas are just very prominent in the Houston area much more so than here. I guess the other question I have is like what is the intent of this incentive for artists, and why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we're not paying where we're paying out to artists that we might that we certainly ultimately wouldn't select all three, I'm not sure I understand the purpose of giving the artist money to submit the proposal that's the work that is on them to sell themselves and their work. I'm a little confused by the concept. Can I respond. Um, so I just want to say that Houston was the first example I gave but I also served on a selection committee for Fort Worth I know Fort Worth is also bigger than Denton but. And I look at a lot of calls for RFQs and RFPs and and like 1000 to $1500 seems to be the going rate to, and what it ultimately pays for is it pays for the artists time to do the work to make a proposal like we're not paying them to respond to RFQ, because that is work, that's like putting in a job application right, but once we're actually giving them a creative kind of assignment of here's the site, here's the all the info process all of that, and then give us a proposal for what you would do here. That's actually a huge investment of time to require of someone and then within our process at any point, after we look at that proposal we could say, no thanks we're going to go to another artist. We weren't happy with you, or actually we don't like this idea can you give us another one. So, Alicia, how often does it happen that you would get to the point where you would put a not insignificant amount of money on to this, this person. And then, I mean, I'm okay with the idea of, we like you we want you to develop a idea, but then that idea. And then we get work for us so we try I'm okay with paying one or two or even three artists for a significant project that's going to be around. But has it happened in your experience that you ever got to a point where you paid that money got the plans and then couldn't come to an agreement with, with an artist and had to move on to another and pay another has that happened in your experience. So in my experience. I think right now the way that our, our process works is like we're basically banking on one artist right after looking at these are cues these qualifications. We're saying this is our favorite artists, we're going to ask them to do a proposal for us most likely we're going to like it, and we're going to move forward with them right. We don't want to have staking to someone so usually I think the, the proposal process involves more than one artist. So you really get to see how different artists respond to the same prompt and the same site and the same budget. And then you really do get to kind of be like, oh we like this idea better. Right. So basically I think like the $1,500 is totally. I think if it's a $30,000 project that probably would be reasonable to give an artist a much lower fee, you know, versus a $200,000 public art project. So definitely it protects us because it doesn't. It protects the artists because we pay them for their time but it also protects us from having to buy into one artist without really getting a sense for what they would do. I feel like I have some, so I have some budgetary concerns as well just because our budget is so small for Denton specifically and then we didn't actually, you know, when we wanted to increase our budget it wasn't voted in. We didn't want to go upfront when we when sometimes our entire project costs that much like if we're doing a wrap around the utility boxes like whatever it is we're doing it's like sometimes we don't spend very much money, but I also just want to say that I actually like the idea of following suit with other cities that are maybe more professional, you know, with, with our artists and art, because we're growing. And we want to kind of align to the cities that know what they're doing, and are more professional with us and so that more artists would want to work with us, in a sense, so I don't know like that's just that's kind of my thinking on this. So I like the sliding scale. I have concerns about the budget. And to be to be perfectly clear is that these funds would have to come from on the on the projects that already have budgets. They would reduce the overall amount that that project would have. So if this were something that the committee wanted to do in the future, I would say that would be an option is saying going forward when we're building project budgets, is that we could factor this in. So that way it doesn't impact the project budget budgets for projects that are already on the books, we kind of go with the process we have but then new projects, we take that into account when we build the project budget. Okay, I like that. I like that idea. That's, I think it makes sense to have a certain dollar amount above a certain dollar amount. That percentage and say 2% 5% because because we have so many varying prices and goodness knows what arts going to cost in 10 or 20 years. What do you think my personal take would be there would be a minimum. Where was applicable and then perhaps a percentage above, based on the dollar amount so projects under 5000 projects under. What, whatever we decide the number was would not apply. This would not apply and projects above that amount would have a percentage applied based on the amount of product. Ed, I'm going to suggest something and Jessica you can tell me if this is okay or not. The if then kind of scares me just because I worry about like whether the future of our, our committee you know but funds go up and down will they go drastically down. Would it be for okay for us just to say that we reserve the right on all future activities to agree amongst ourselves to have a minimum percentage of a maximum dollar amount that we could choose to reserve. To budget for proposals is a statement like that that's kind of a vague blanket giving all future projects, the ability to pursue this in whatever the going rate is, is that okay can I be that they could. Yes, I would say what we would likely need to do is probably put this into the public art policy. And so, what I think we should probably do is come up with some draft language, take what we're hearing right now at the staff level, maybe come up with an, because this is a change so if we have to amend the public art policy will have to bring that back to the committee and then take it to city council and say, Here's something that we want to adopt, because this is different from how we've operated in the past. And I'm not so sure that our policy gives us the ability right now to make this change. I think we need to amend the policy so hearing these things we can draft some language, bring that back at the next meeting to consider. And then, go ahead. I was just gonna say bring that formalize that language into the policy itself so that way, future board members do have to comply with the policy. Okay. We have had, we've had changes to our policy even in the time I've been on the public art committee and I know I've seen it in other city commissions and committees as well. I'm okay with that if the rest of you board members are the rest of you committee members are okay with that. Is there something that we would like for Jessica to give us a good wording and then run it past the city staff or anyone like Alicia you sound like you are very knowledgeable about what's going on in the current world of art, would you like to maybe get with her, how fancy do we want to be in crafting this wording. I would be happy to help in any way. And, and I think the best thing to do is just to make sure to look at what other cities of a similar size are doing. You know, just to make sure we're kind of aware and we're, we're not out of, you know, out of the norm, out of the ordinary in a way that, you know, could be problematic or something, you know, can our can our staff direction be then to have you get with Jessica, get with the different like I imagine it's with the city attorneys or the legal advisors that we have, and to also get with Alicia since, and anyone else who wants to be a part of this, and maybe next month come back with us with some proposed wording to, to do I know this is going to take a couple months to get into the policy anyway. Are y'all. Yeah, I think that that from a staff perspective, don't direct Jessica Jessica or a member of her team will probably somebody, but we'll probably want to do a little survey to the other surrounding cities of similar size and see what they're doing, and then come up with language we can also ask them if they are doing this what language they have in their policies or processes for and get that so I'll, I'll shoot for next month. And if for some reason we get held up, and I'll definitely keep it on the work plan but let us go look at what other cities are doing get get a good feel for the amounts draft some language, and then we'll bring it back when we're when we've got a good path forward. All right, and I would also be interested in the cities that, especially those who fall under the same state designation that we just received. That don't have that language and whether it's something that is there a specific reason why they don't, or whatever so I mean I wouldn't mind if you wanted to give out a list of eight or 10 cities and say, you know, hey, Jody is smart call these two and Alicia is smart call these two and Ed call these two, and maybe we could just have some discussions with them, you know, and we could get back but but let's yeah let's bring this up next month meeting and see where we get and maybe you can have some good advice and we can give you some input about what our sister cities around here have to say. We can do that. All right, so excellent shall we move on to item D then everybody, it's to receive a report hold. Oh, sorry I was just gonna say I'm happy to help with the drafting of language. And all that kind of stuff. So, cool. Is it something I, I definitely when Alicia brought it up as something that I feel like we should definitely be doing. We shouldn't be asking artists to do any work, whether it's a proposal otherwise without making sure they get compensated for it, especially if we're that far in the decision process that we're really thinking you might be the one. I feel like that's a way to solidify our relationship Terry did you have something to add. I do. Is this all because this has now become standard operating procedures to pay these fees. I feel that this is kind of become a cause because, as we look at the bigger projects that we're working on right now we want to Meredith, go ahead, answer. Bye, thank you. Oh Meredith's leaving. Oh my goodness. Okay. So yeah, Terry I feel that this has become an issue because of the bigger projects and the bigger scope of the projects we're working on. We want to make sure that we're getting all available options for for what we could buy with our money and what we're going to do and so that maybe we're looking at one or two different artists or maybe three different artists maximum, and which one can really express what it is we want to spend our public budget on. Am I, would anyone else like to say that better than me because that wasn't so great. I would like to add something I don't know that I'm necessarily saying anything better, but I think it says a lot about a city. If they're, they have an art program. And they're asking artists to commit their time to make a proposal to them for permanent art installation. The city is not willing to compensate them for the time that they took to make that proposal, because they're essentially. I mean like we saw with that that sculpture for the MLK Center. She essentially did a. She took the time to make a sculpture that would eventually become the permanent sculpture that's going to be in front of the MLK Center I mean that was hours that she put into that work. Every time an artist does a proposal they're putting time into it just like that. I mean, they're essentially making an art piece. And they should be getting paid for it because that's what they do for a living. I think it's early as a. I'm sorry Georgina go ahead. This seems unusual to me so I'm not kind of really on board. We can we can commission artists to do work for us. We need our piece so people can respond and it's Alicia said a few minutes ago. It's like applying for a job when you put those arms out into the world. You typically don't pay people that you're not services you're not intending to use. So, we got we didn't put it out and RP we put out an RFQ. And then we're asking those artists to do a proposal, which is asking those artists to do work. So, this isn't us willy nilly spending I feel that we're. It's okay. I mean I don't I don't think that we're going to be asking seven different people to do this I feel that this might be a situation where we have one person, and we really want to make sure they understand what we want or maybe there are two people and we can't decide and we want to know who's going to provide a better example of what we want for art I don't see this especially if we capped it at say, we will only spend a maximum of 5% of the budget on this. I think that like right now Georgina this would be a great time to say you know what I do have doubts about this. Let's say we can only use a very small amount of the budget or let's say we can only ask to maximum or three maximum artists to perform this duty for us. Sure. Yeah, I think I have to respectfully disagree with the analogy about an application though, because an application you're just filling out a piece of paper and turning it in. Whereas, for a proposal for an art piece you're actually creating an art piece. And I think we have to understand the difference between an RFP and an RFQ. So when I, when I brought up the analogy of an application and RFQ is essentially an application, you have previous work that you've done that you're showing images of your, you're submitting your CV and a cover letter. But if we put out an RFP, that's different. We don't have to ask everyone like everyone that applies with a proposal we don't have to pay them right that's a different process. So, so for lower budget projects we could just say RFP from the jump, and we're not paying anyone for those proposals but for higher budget projects I think is what we're talking about where you start with the qualifications and then you progress to the proposals. I think you can apply this concept to any one of our fields. I mean for example, you wouldn't go to an architectural firm and ask them to provide you with a blueprint, because you have an idea of building a building and ask them to do it for free. Same thing with musicians composing music, I mean it applies photography it kind of applies across the board and I see Georgina shaking your head I think this is more than just an application this is a tough tell me what you're thinking. I said, I'm really, it's, it's a different approach that I am familiar with, or I think that when you ask when you put out an RFP or an RFQ, you're asking people to demonstrate to you what they can do. And I am not familiar with the practice of paying people in advance of you even selecting them to give you that proposal, whatever, whatever it is, but it's okay I don't have to be in agreement, I think I'm hearing that everyone else is kind of on the same page about it and that's okay. Well, I've not experienced that, and I find it to be an unusual approach. And the reason I asked is I always like to know what, what other people are thinking because I may not have considered, you know, all of the, all of the angles on something and it seems like I've not done the research but what I'm hearing from Alicia and others is for for most cities, this is kind of the norm, is that. Is that correct. Yes, and we'll do the, like I said, we'll do the research will reach out to cities of our size, because I think that it is sometimes hard to look at Houston or Fort Worth, and make a comparison. So we're going to reach out to cities of our size to get a better understanding of what they're doing or seeing that way we can ask them. This question is, is it is our stipends being offered for projects over a certain amount or proposals paid for over, one, I mean, I have no idea, haven't looked but one of the outcomes maybe, you know, for any project over under 50,000 we don't offer this or maybe it's no we offer this for everything and so let us do the research in this area of cities the size of programs that are similar budget so we can get a sense of what is the norm of this and bring that back for the discussion. All right. That sounds wonderful. So let's say let's focus on cities that have the same state designation for tourism like we now have with our original Denton district. Let's look at McKinney and Denison and the other cities that are comparable in size and in cultural impact within their greater communities, and just maybe, Jessica, could you ask them and if you feel like there's too many cities maybe you can just send two to the people on the committee and ask them to call. I'm happy to make the call. No, we're, we're. This is a pretty, pretty similar request we do this very often we reach out to a number of network of cities and say hey we have this idea how do you do this and how does it work for you so we'll be able to get an answer back and if not by the next time we have any needs. Hopefully, you know, we'll we'll keep you updated on where we are but we'll definitely be able to make this happen. Samantha so is everyone satisfied then that will just keep this as an agenda item for next month and if for some reason we're, we're busy or coven keeps us all on other items that we can belay this till September is everyone okay with that. I want to make sure we have clear direction from the committee that we don't want to let this hamper the projects that we're moving forward right now so without clear direction. We're going to move forward with those projects with our status quo which was we were not paying for the proposals until after we have negotiated the contract, which in turn might provide direction to our subcommittees of saying maybe we need to narrow it down to one because of the commitment. That's what I'm hearing now I'm if I'm wrong if someone shake your head or wave your hand. But if that's a well be that no one else is even doing this on our economic and population level who knows so I'm willing to be open and listen to information and take input at this point. Personally, okay. Well let's just kind of keep will go to when we get to the project discussion we can kind of keep giving update on where the projects are and go from there, but we'll just keep everything moving forward and we'll do this research and we'll come back. Super, well then shall we move along to item D which is all our wonderful reports discussions and stuff on our existing projects and so for those of you who have the agenda in front of you, it's going to go North Lakes dog park, the villa athletic complex the tennis center the fire station, the foundations of our history mural MLK and then Denton women, we have a lot of stuff that we're doing. I'm so excited this is such an exciting time to be on public art. And then finally with the Denton women's interracial fellowship monument so Jessica seven items. So some of them will be very quick so we're not going to go back through the process again we went over that last time so the first one will provide an update on is the North Lakes dog park so this subcommittee met, I believe last week. And, and we, they narrowed it down to, I think, five artists that they saw on the pre qualified list, and they were going through the process of scoring those artists and to determine if there was one or two that they wanted to seek a proposal for. So we're pretty well in process on the project proposal brief this is the document that we would send to the artists that describes the theme or concepts or ideas and so once we have the committee's feedback on their sort of top five, and will decide whether we move forward with one or two of them and so I will turn it over to members of that subcommittee, which are Meredith Meredith's not here, Michelle and Ed, if you have any additional comments or feedback that you wanted or updates you wanted to provide the full committee. Ed. Any other than I think how we left it we discussed that the verbiage that we gave is Gary still on or did he Gary Gary's here. I didn't see him in the window, that it would be a human dog interaction that was exaggerated and comical. I don't remember the exact wording but it was something along those lines. It was something lighthearted and fun definitely. And, and yes I feel like we have we have this great scope of the villa stuff having a personal connection to the family, and the foundations of our history and both that and the women's interracial have a kind of a serious and important statue to it. And I would like to say I'm having a lot of fun working on this because of the idea of doing something lighthearted and comical and maybe kind of tongue in cheek and saucy. And so, so trust us that there are some good ideas in the work and hopefully next month we can or the month after we can provide you with something concrete. So, we are excitedly moving forward with that project, and I know, I know that we, I don't know if Georgina still on their wisdom and jolly have been participating in subcommittee meetings which are our dogs and so they're eager to participate and see the sculpture. I'm with you. Yeah. So the next project that we have is the Vela athletic complex project. And that subcommittee has also been meeting, I believe we have now narrowed it down to our subcommittee has chosen their top artists. I believe if not top two artists Alicia's giving me to that will be finalizing the project brief on and distributing that so we probably just need to get back together as a subcommittee and complete that project brief, and then we'll that that one seems to be on a fast track and so we'll move forward with that project but I'll let anyone from that subcommittee as well, provide an update or comments as needed. For Alicia or Nick. Nick is usually making us dinner during those subcommittee meetings for dinner Nick. Yeah, I would love to hear what what um concept you all finally settled on do you have one yet. We didn't necessarily settle on a concept. I remember, we did say I mean we wanted it to be like anthropomorphic. Was that the word or anamorphic about something that might move and possibly something kinetic. Yeah. Yeah, I think that anamorphic so like it changes the way it looks from different perspectives and maybe something kind of becomes visible or kinetic, but I think ultimately the subcommittee talked about how the sculpture will try to represent Vila's background in microbiology I think it was. And then also his love for soccer. So we thought that somehow those two things could be tied together in an interesting way and we narrowed it down to two artists, I think, who we like the best and we just, I think, have to pick between those two. So that project is also moving forward so be looking for a, our subcommittee be looking for a subcommittee meeting for that one, so that we can move that one forward. The next project is the tennis center. We have not held the kickoff meeting on that that project is a little bit behind and it also we're trying to prioritize the projects where the pad sites or the project itself was completed. We were trying to get those kind of out the door and moving and so we'll definitely be revisiting and having the subcommittee meeting on the tennis center but certainly we're trying to prioritize Vila and the dog park because those just have empty pad sites right now. So we want to get art going at those locations. And then Gary, did you have an update on the tennis center itself that maybe you could share. Yes, I do the. So we split into two phases, the pro shop is actually under construction right now. It will be scheduled to be done in early 21. And we just got clearance to move forward with bidding of the actual courts and grounds. This week, it was put on hold because of coven budget, coven budget concerns. The money was just kind of put on pause, but we got clearance to go ahead and do that. So in the next 30 days, that will be put out on the street for bidding. And so I can get if we want if you have a subcommittee that that's ready to roll, we can get something scheduled probably in the next two weeks, and I can provide the construction drawings of the property, and we can finalize the location I think we had some discussion on where it might go. Since then, we've made some minor alterations to the site plan. So we can discuss a final location on that. So we can get that identified and ready to move forward. Can I ask a question before we move on to the next one. Sure. Since the soccer complex and the tennis center are very geographically close, are they not. So, if you used a villa as 12 o'clock on a watch, the dog park would be at probably two, and the tennis center would be at three. So, so would there be any sense of the different subcommittees, or just somehow for all three of these art, these pieces of art to be thematically or or like by the same artist or with the same concept would it would it make sense to anyone on this committee to consider some sort of continuity among the three pieces so that they're so that they're being built at the same time in the same area. Would that be something that that we could just that interests us or not the idea that there might be some continuity either among artists or it's dealer pick some really cool style that maybe we could include that art in the material for the artists of the other two spots to look at as. I think the existing themes that have been decided thus far with microbiology and a human dog interaction really just don't mesh. I think they could I totally think that connects everything in this world, I think that it could be done I think that you could have some sort of motif or concept. I don't think that that's too much to ask to at least consider. Just just to throw in a comment for you guys free under for your consideration. Obviously vela is already done in the dog parks already done vela you know there is some concern of trying to get that done as quickly as possible, but the tennis center does not have to be done right away so if that's going to slow down the other projects I would, I would say maybe we can wait a little bit to make sure that get those other ones off the ground first, we still have a lot of time on the tennis center project just as a as an FYI for you. But like soccer tennis both have balls in them dogs play with balls there might be an opportunity to have a cohesiveness among the three statues that would be really I don't know unique and cool I don't know. Okay, anyways, I mean, if that's something you could propose that if the subcommittees wanted to move in that direction that hasn't been how they've been discussing it, they have been having separate conversations so I'm wondering if whoever you ultimately choose as the Vila artist might be someone that we could consider if we have if it's not the same one that we're considering now, perhaps we could go back and reconsider that artist, you know and say is there a way that they could do something that would be dog park themes that would also incorporate the ideas of you know balls and recreation and community and the reason that we're getting together in these places is to spend time with each other and and create a community here and I was looking back to see who were who was on the if there was overlap in committee members and I think it is the only one that's been on both but I will say from my perspective, the discussions between the two subcommittees have been very divergent on what they're pursuing and their ultimate goal for the arts. There's definitely more of a sense of gravitas and seriousness to develop piece because it's, you know, it's honoring the legacy of an individual that the park is named after whereas the dog park more has this humor lightheartedness. But that's just been from sitting in on the subcommittee meeting so if the subcommittees wanted to change direction. They certainly could no one is so far down a path that they couldn't. The challenge being that I think both committees are pretty settled on what, what direction they wanted to go. All right, then I just want to make one last comment to add the add this is for you since you're on both these committees. What can you do to find a common element between them that might that might give us something to enjoy in both locations. Definitely to enjoy. It's actually not on me I think we'll have something to enjoy in all the locations but I'm not a fan of making everything homogenous. I'm not a fan of everything being the same I think for art, there are different applications for different places so while that is an interesting concept, I don't see how it applies here. That's just my opinion. You are the link between us also okay, I think it could. I just have the bad habit of volunteering for everything. The idea of tying different locations around the city together could definitely be implemented in some kind of a future project like we were even talking about for the Denton women's interracial women's, whatever that thing, I can't remember what it's called. But for these particular projects I think each sculpture will kind of serve as like an icon or a symbol of that really specific place and its function so I think it actually makes sense in this application to keep them pretty unique, you know. Okay, cool. So, tennis seven. Next is the fire station, fire station and so we did have the initial subcommittee meeting on that and they sent me back to ask a bunch of questions that I don't all have don't have all of the answers to yet. So I'm continuing discussions with our purchasing department and our fire department to try and get answers for that subcommittee so I won't undercut that subcommittees work to everyone right now just know that there are some ideas being kicked around and we will have an update back on this subcommittee as soon as I can get answers from for questions so is there anyone on that subcommittee that has anything that they wanted to add. Okay. Next one is the foundations of our history mural. And this is the mural that is being recreated on the Robertson Street Bridge, I don't know that we have an update from when we met last time, last time we did approve the additional funding to cover the remaining funding gap on that project and I think we are still waiting for approval from Union Pacific Railroad. I don't know if Gary will shake his head yes or no if we have that yet. I think we're still waiting. And then we're working towards we have a date in mind for the community meeting. We're working out all of the details on how you hold a community meeting in 2020. And so we will send that information out as soon as we get all of those details finalized. Jessica as of right now, it is September 3, September 3, yeah, that we have penciled in we're meeting next week I think next week or the week after with staff to figure out how we're going to logistically do the public meeting online. Could I also ask that we offer I know that a lot of the people who are featured and the family of people who are featured in this mural may not feel comfortable doing a zoom or an online thing would it be possible for you to also have maybe an email box that you could set up for comments that they could just email or leave a voice message. Yes, so we're going to be actually doing two public meetings one for Southwest Park master plan and August and this one. And we're going to have various comments where people can call in, if they're not tech savvy with computer or have the ability to do that. And then we're going to provide that recording for people to to review at a later date for like another week. And then also people can call us and give us feedback or email us for a certain period of time after the meeting. For that, for that specific project so we're trying to cover all basis. And we can even provide a, an address for people, you know, to come and visit us if they if they want to do it in person. But, yeah, so we were considering that as a challenge for some people. It is, yeah, thank you for doing that. That's wonderful. Yep. Okay, so the next project is the MLK sculpture so we are hoping to include that project as well on the September 3 public meeting and so I'm just waiting to connect with the artists to make sure that that date works. For her obviously she will also be participating remotely. And so once we have that community meeting we'll be able to move that project forward so certainly we want to move it as quickly as possible but we felt like holding the community meeting. Before we finalized that design and took that forward to City Council was important so we moved that final approval back. And so we will hopefully get back with, you know, be able to get in touch with Madeline and have her participate in the public meeting and then go from there. So, that is that project any questions on that one. No. All right, the last project is the Denton women's interracial fellowship monument project, and so we met just yesterday so the, the packet isn't updated obviously because we published it before the subcommittee met, and so we had a lot of really good discussion. Michelle has been contacting women who were members of the fellowship providing getting information, and we're also planning to work with the Denton Parks Foundation regarding some fundraising elements and so we've been working with the foundation to get some ideas and feedback, and then Alicia and Georgina have been providing a lot of ideas and feedback regarding the project as well and so we continue to meet weekly on that project, and they also sent me back with a whole host of questions for purchasing and attorneys and all of those things and so we are waiting for responses back on those. We haven't heard anything on the grant just yet, but we're optimistic and we're going to keep moving forward on this project and we'll hopefully have a little bit more of a formal announcement and formal plan in the next few weeks. So I'll let that subcommittee, those subcommittee members add anything to it if I mischaracterized or missed that one. I would love just to give you the 22nd input for everybody else that I have spoken to the majority of the people who have been and who were involved with this, and also some of the children who were part of the movement when the integration occurred. We have a Google Doc if anyone is interested in reading it. We polled the participants from back in the day about what location they might be interested in seeing the monument at and what style, simply because we felt like this would be relevant to us moving forward. We would like to honor them, but we would also like for them to feel like they had a part in the discussion of what honors them, and that I think as far as I'm concerned, every single person who I've talked to has wanted to stay part of the dialogue and be involved, and every person I've talked to in the community, be it through politics or just business or charitable interests in here, has unanimously been in support of it, and so I feel like we're in a really good place as far as community support for a project, which sometimes we build something and nobody even knows it's there, and I feel like this could be a really good opportunity to connect with the community now and from the past. So, I'd be happy, Jessica, if you could share out the Google Drive for those people who might be interested just to read up on it. Sure. You can do that. Any questions. Georgina, Alicia, anyone? No, I don't have anything to add. I think you've been doing a great job, Michelle. Thanks for all that work that you've done. Thanks. Okay, awesome. All right, well then, does that bring us to item E, which is, are we good? That's it on that one. Okay, we don't need to vote on that. Excellent. So, we're going to get a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regards to our August 6th meeting, which was scheduled, a special called meeting, which should lead us to the last one about, yeah, update for next month. So, Jessica, what you got? So, unfortunately for you guys, your meeting date in August has been taken by the City Council. So, we're continuing to meet remotely. The room I'm in is the only room in which we can hold these meetings, so we have to make sure that we give up our spot so that City Council can meet on that date. That's their budget work session. So, I'll be budgeting all day instead of doing public art that day. So, some alternative dates that we had looked at was we could move it to Friday that week. So, we could move it to August 7th, just like we did at this meeting. So, Friday, August 7th at 3 p.m., or we could look at, I believe, August, Wednesday, August 12th was available. So, I do apologize for all of the haphazard scheduling, but unfortunately with only one room and about 30 committees that are trying to meet throughout the month, it does get really challenging. So, I appreciate, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this committee's flexibility as you've kind of gotten moved around a number of times. Okay, does anyone have a preference as to Friday, August 7th, or Wednesday, August 12th? Friday would be my preference. Me too. Anyone else? Should we do a vote, Jessica? Would you feel more comfortable with that? Yes, if you could for this one, motion and vote just so we have that on record, and then we will go about doing all of the things we do on our end to get it scheduled. Okay, so let's do this. Let's say that you can either say Friday, August 7th, or Wednesday, August 12th, or either, or if you already have two preconceived things of what you're doing, tell us what you've got. Okay, so I'm going to start and I'm going to say that either date works for me, Friday is fine. Nick? Friday works best for me. Okay, Meredith is no longer with us, Alicia? Either. Okay, Jody? Either is fine. Fred? Either. Terry? Either. Ed? Friday. And Georgina? Either. There you go, Jessica. Does someone want to make a motion to move the meeting to Friday, August 7th? I make a motion that we move the meeting to Friday, August 7th. Do you have to hold the cat to second it, though? Someone has to be holding a cat. All right, so we have a motion, who would like to second this? I think Nick. I second it. Okay, so Ed made the motion and Nick seconded it to move our August 6th meeting. Wait, it said August 6th, oh, that was Thursday. Okay, so move our August 6th meeting to Friday, August 7th. Yes, at 3 PM. Pending, scheduling, if there's a scheduling conflict, you'll get with us. Yes, there's not too many committees that try and meet on Friday afternoon, so it's generally available. Okey-dokey. Well, then let's go down and you can give me an aye or nay. Lynn says aye. Nick? Aye. Elisa? Aye. Jody? Aye. Fred? Aye. Terri? Aye. Ed? Aye. And Georgina? Aye. Oh, we are in accordance then. Let's see each other next on August 7th. All right. Anyone have anything to add for next month that they want mentioned on the agenda? So we have, just so you know, since we've added this, we have the, we'll have an additional discussion on temporary arts if we can get the research done on the additional stipends or payments for the proposals, so we'll make sure that those are on it as well as project updates. So that will be the plan going forward unless there's additional items. Sounds good. Well, y'all stay safe then. If this is us, then we're out till next month, right? And see you on August 7th. August 7th, everybody stay safe and take care of yourselves and your families, okay? You too. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.