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 Good morning. My name is Marty Rivers. I'm the chair of the downtown economic development

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 committee. It's 833. We're going to call the meeting to order. And the first thing we will

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 do is a roll call. So when I call your name, let us know that you're present. I'm just

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 going to go around my screen here. Brock McKnight. Melissa Lindenburg. I need you to speak so

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 people can hear. You might have to join audio, Melissa. Melissa's here. Bob Moses. I'm here.

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 John Cartwright. Present. Monty Jensen. Here. Hank Dickinson. I am here. Beth Lewis. Here.

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 Did I get everybody on the committee? I think so. All right. Thanks for being here today.

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 It's nice to see some faces I hadn't seen in a while. And appreciate you logging in

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 this morning and bearing with us as we go through this meeting on Zoom. Our first item

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 up for consideration is EDP 20-021. Consider approval of the minutes of our March 5th,

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 2020 meeting. And I will accept any motions or comments. I'll make a motion to accept

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 that. I'm Bob Moses. Thank you, Bob. I'll second. We got a motion by Bob and a second

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 by Monty. Any discussion on our March minutes? All right. All those in favor, say aye by

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 raising your hand. Can you do the roll call because we can't see everybody? We've got

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 to do a roll call. All right. Brock? Aye. Melissa? She said a thumbs up. Aye. Bob? Aye. John?

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 Aye. Monty? Aye. Hank? Aye. Beth? Aye. I think we got everybody. Okay. Motion. Marty, this

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 is Michael Talley as well. Aye. Hello. We've got a unanimous consent to approve the minutes.

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 So we'll move on to the next item, which is EDP 20-002. Receive a report, hold discussion

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 and make a recommendation to the downtown TURS number one board regarding a downtown

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 reinvestment grant program application for 213 East Hickory Street, Hickory to Oak. And

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 we have a special guest this morning, Eric Polito. I don't know if staff is going to

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 make the presentation, I guess. Yes. Have everything in your backup as well. So I'll

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 roll through the slides and then at the end we'll give you a chance to ask questions and

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 then we'll talk about the scoring sheet, okay? Let me share my screen with you. There we

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 go. So this will be our charges to consider making a recommendation to the downtown TURS

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 board. Just wanted to quickly review with you all the parts of the project that when

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 we review it, that's what we're looking for. So we want to look at for an increase in property

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 valuation and sales tax, historical accuracy, improvements to water, wastewater, improvements

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 to health and safety. It results in a significant increase in downtown population and other

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 impacts that are not limited to partners with other businesses as a target business or promotes

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 development of arts and entertainment downtown. Additionally, we'll look at facade rehabilitation

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 and the new awnings and signs. That's where this one is going to follow is under the new

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 signs. We also consider impact fee reimbursement, utility upgrades and interior code improvements.

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 So this is the location of the property that we're looking at today. This is the proposed

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 mural. So the mural is, as you can see, Day of the Dead. And it's the day of the most,

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 I can't even say it today. I've been practicing all along and I can't say it, but it's for

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 Day of the Dead and it embodies the coffin races that traditionally happened during the

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 festival that happens on Industrial Street. They're also looking to add a metal and neon

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 sign to the facade of the front of the building there. So back in, sorry, let me do this.

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 In 2013, the property at 211 East Hickory was awarded a $10,000 grant for facade awnings

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 and paint improvements. And recently, the three addresses have been pulled together

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 and now part of one property. And so because of that, the current guidelines would allow

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 for up to an additional $1,500 in grant awards for the property. The expenses submitted for

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 the signs total $14,625. That's the estimated project costs and the grant request is for

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 $7,313. So these are our options to either make no recommendation to the Downtown Tourists

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 or make a recommendation to the Tourist Board in the amount equal to the scoring sheet guidelines.

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 And so I did attach the scoring sheet for you. I won't require them, but we're going

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 to try something different this year. But first, let's go to questions. So does anyone

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 have any questions for Eric? I have a question. Who is going to do the sign? Is it a student

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 or is it someone that's done other art around the city? I'd just like to know a little bit

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 about who's actually going to perform the art? Yes. The mural has already been completed

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 and it was done by Dan Black, who as you may know has done a lot of murals around town

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 and around the world now. So it's kind of cool that we're getting to use him for that

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 mural. I also, before we had done that, had talked with David Pierce, who heads it up

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 Day of the Dead Festival and they really celebrated us doing that mural on that street. So it

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 seemed like it was a really champion thing by those involved. Mural's up and the sign

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 was put up over the weekend. Yes, the sign just got put up and that was done by Mellow

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 signs. Okay, I'll have to get down the street and see what it is. I haven't seen it. Okay.

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 Any other questions? I have a question. When do you think you might be open for business?

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 That's a good question. It's a tough one because we're still now working to finish and get

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 a CO, but as a lot of you guys know, it's a tough one because opening might just be

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 more difficult than not being open. So we're kind of waiting to see a little bit more of

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 a light to appear. But we're excited to get it there and then we're going to do everything

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 to be ready to be open. There was a pause obviously, but now we've kind of dug back

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 into finish the inside and everything, get our CO. Any more questions? Okay. So what

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 I'd like for you to do is to go ahead and take a look at your scoring sheet and fill

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 it out and then text me your score with your last name. So I have my number listed up there

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 on the top for you. And then once you've done that, I'll calculate the average score and

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 then we'll move forward from there.

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 So you just gave your cell phone out to thousands of people watching this program this morning?

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 Yeah, sure.

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 No, that's actually not Christina's real cell phone number. That's a system that we have

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 set up for this exact purpose. So thank you. But Christina will respond to anyone who texts

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 that number, I think I will.

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 I'm still working on it. I had to go get a pen, but I'm going to be I've never done the

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 texting while I do this. So I'm going to be giving you an anonymous number in a minute.

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 Christina, where is your cell number featured here?

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 Sorry. Yeah, I got you.

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 Oh, do I just punch that text number and be able to punch in a number?

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 Yeah, text, put that number in to text to it and then just write your last name in the

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 message and your total score.

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 I guess I don't know how to go into text and not lose this connection here. So I'll be

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 a dummy and give you a number in a minute.

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 While we're doing that, I got a text from Alex this morning. He had something come up

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 all of a sudden that he was unable to make it

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 22. Gang, I got to get on the road again, but I should be back to a stationary location

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 shortly but I'm going to go off video for a minute.

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 I need my Michael Talley and there's rocks right there.

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 Thank you, Brock.

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 So I have Margie, Melissa, oh, thank you.

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 Christina, did you get mine?

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 I did get yours. Thank you.

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 Okay, are we missing any scores? Is anyone still sending? If not, we'll have Christina

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 total it. Okay, I received Marty, Melissa, Hank, Monty, Brock, Michael and Beth.

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 Don, do we have yours? I sent it. 940-220-9015?

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 I think it's 51. Oh, is it dyslexia? Tell me the number again. 940-220-9051.

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 Someone got a fun text message from John.

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 Yeah.

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 I guess we need to all get some teenagers to come in and help us while we're doing this.

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 About now.

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 Okay, got it.

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 Thank you, ma'am.

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 So if we want, we can move on to the next presentation while Christina is totaling the

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 scores and come back to this item.

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 Let's do that.

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 Okay. Marty, do you mind going a little bit out of order and I'll allow Todd Essis and

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 Engineering to do their presentation before mine that way, which is agenda item D.

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 Yep, let's do that. EDP 20-028, receive a report, hold discussion and give staff direction

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 regarding one-way versus two-way streets in downtown Denton.

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 Good morning. We're actually going to have Brian Yahn, who is speaking remotely. I'll

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 move the slides forward, but if we get a little bit of a lag, then I'll jump in and we'll

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 go from there. Brian definitely explains it better than I do. And I also tell Brian, you

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 better tell them what you want to tell them because otherwise you're going to live with

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 what I tell them, which is never, never really a good thing, I think.

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 Never. It's never a good thing.

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 All right. I'll let you start the slide. Can you hear me, Todd? Okay.

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 So good morning, everyone. My name is Brian Yahn. I'm the City Traffic Engineer for Denton.

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 I'm here to talk to you today about one-way and two-way streets. And I want to clarify,

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 if you had seen the first slide, I had originally titled this one-way versus two-way streets,

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 but it's not really a competition. Both our tools and the toolbox, they each have their

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 place. And so we're really here today to talk about pros and cons, the characteristics of

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 each, and just have a discussion on the four streets, Oak, Hickory, Elm, and Locust, and

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 how they should, how the community wants them to function in the future. So this slide,

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 are two-way streets better than one-way streets? If you ask two traffic engineers that question,

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 you're going to get three answers. Next slide, please. Yes, no, and maybe. So it's this maybe

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 that's in the middle ground where it says it depends, but I want to focus today, because

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 it really does depend. Next slide, please. It depends on the goals of the community and

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 how they want these streets to function and live within the community itself. Topics we

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 really want to cover today are safety, economic vitality, mobility, and congestion. So we

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 want to look at how the pedestrian and bicycle safety is improved or are not improved, the

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 vehicular crashes. We want to look how one-way streets and two-way streets change the access

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 to businesses, affect the travel distances that customers and consumers have to experience.

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 City options. What are the bike-ped facilities options? How do they affect transit and how

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 do they affect parking? And then congestion, which is how most of us interact with our

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 city streets, and that's typically in our vehicle. Does it add delay? Does it improve

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 the flow? What are the speeds like? And if we have the congestion, does it force people

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 onto parallel facilities where we really don't want a lot of through traffic? It's that cut

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 through traffic that we often hear about. Next slide, please. So first topic is safety.

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 Next slide. So this is the format I'm going to pursue this entire presentation. One-way

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 streets will be on your left, two-way streets will be on your right. So one-way streets,

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 pedestrians have the advantage. If you're crossing the main street, you only have to

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 look in one direction because theoretically there's not supposed to be a car coming from

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 the other direction. So that's kind of an advantage. On two-way streets, if you have

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 a four-leg intersection with two-way streets coming from all directions and you've got

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 a few more options or requirements where you have to look left, right, left again, like

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 we learned when we were children. Next slide, please. On one-way streets, one of the disadvantages

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 is that as pedestrians cross a multi-lane one-way street, if you can see in the picture

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 on your left, pedestrian is stepped off the curb, but that second vehicle on the right-hand

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 side of the screen can't see them yet. So a lot of times that's a conflict where one

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 car will stop, the other car sees the car stop and doesn't know why and keeps going.

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 And then we have the potential for a crash with the pedestrian or cyclist in that crosswalk.

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 Two-way streets, you've got only one, if we're talking about a two-lane street, which most

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 of the four that we're looking at are typically two lanes, we're looking at a scenario where

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 you've got much better visibility, you've only got one car and one lane, so the pedestrian

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 is in a much safer environment. Next slide, please. One-way streets typically will have

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 much fewer conflict points, which leads to a lower crash potential. So a one-way main

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 street with a two-way side street, you've got 20 conflict points for motorists and ped

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 bike. On a two-way street, you've doubled that, you've got 40 conflict points, more

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 opportunities for crashes and mistakes. Next slide, please. One-way streets, because they

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 don't have that friction of head-on traffic, somebody coming at you, the potential for

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 the motorists coming in the opposite direction can lead to higher speeds and that leads to

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 the potential for higher severity of crashes. So you have fewer but more severe crashes.

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 On a two-way street network, typically we'll see lower speeds because you've got the at

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 least the potential for somebody to be coming at you in the other direction, lowers the

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 speeds and also lowers the severity of crashes. Now as a follow-on, because we saw the previous

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 slide, we've got twice the number of high conflict points. We've got, you typically

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 will see a 30% bump in the number of crashes. There'll be fewer, there'll be fender benders,

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 lower speed, less severe, but the actual number of crashes typically will rise. Next slide,

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 please. So this is just a little accident history on the two couplets that we're talking

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 about. Oak and Hickory on the top, west is on your left and east is on your right. So

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 you'll see that we've got fairly consistent crash. This is from 2010 to 2020, 617 crashes,

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 zero fatalities and 110 injuries and fairly evenly distributed east and west throughout

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 the entire corridor. Very few segments have really, really low. You can see a couple on

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 Oak and Hickory about two, three blocks west of Carroll, where we've got some lower crash

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 volumes, but throughout the corridor, pretty consistent. On Elm and Locust, and I apologize

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 for this, but north is to your right. It's just, there's no way I could format this on

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 the slide deck, but you'll see that downtown, quite a few crashes and when you get up to

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 university, quite a few crashes. But in that middle distance, and again, this is 2010 to

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 2020, this is 10 years where the data in that, you know, between downtown and university,

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 it dropped significantly. You get 1,087 crashes, so almost 1,100 crashes, two fatalities and

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 362 injuries. So that's just a little bit of crash history for these two corridors.

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 Next slide, please. Next topic we're going to talk about is economic vitality, and how

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 the characteristics of one-way and two-way streets can affect that. Next slide. So one-way

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 streets are harder for visitors to navigate. If we live in the community, typically we'll

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 know which streets are one-way, and if I need to go from point A to point B, I've got to

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 go here, take a left and turn right or turn left again. But for visitors, it's not nearly

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 as common-sensical. They don't know which streets are going to be one-way. Is it one

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 street? Is it two streets? Is it four streets? And that's taken away when you've got a two-way

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 street grid. So you can travel in any direction on any street, and it allows for just easier

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 access for those visitors. Next slide. The other characteristic of a one-way street network

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 is that it will typically increase the distance you have to travel. And I've just used if

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 someone's coming from the east on University and they want to go to Giuseppe's downtown,

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 this is my example. The orange would be the one-way street where you've got to come down

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 Elm, turn and come back north on Locust, versus if both streets were two-way, you would simply

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 turn on Locust and get to your destination. So depending upon the street grid and where

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 you're trying to go in that grid, it can significantly increase the travel distance, which is something

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 that we try to avoid. It's more emissions, it's greater opportunity for crashes. So if

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 we can shorten the travel distance, that's a win. Next slide. All right. We like to talk

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 a little bit about mobility. Next slide. On a one-way streets, one of the, and you can

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 see this as an advantage or just a characteristic, but if you're on a one-way streets, you only

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 need a bike lane in one direction. If you're on a two-way streets, the expectation is that

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 you have a bike lane for each direction. So it kind of doubles that need for bicycle infrastructure.

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 And just as a caveat, one of the foundation points of this discussion is that we're not

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 talking about reconstruction. So if we're talking about converting any of these streets

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 from one-way to two-way, we're leaving the curves in place. So we've got a finite distance

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 of pavement. So it's really all about what do we do with that pavement? What are our

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 goals? What's most important? If bike facilities are high on that list, then a two-way street

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 can impact the rest of the remainder of the pavement, because if that expectation is satisfied

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 of having a bike lane in each direction, we've used twice as much. Next slide.

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 So on a one-way street, if, and this is really talking about two different categories, deliveries

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 and then, and it doesn't seem like it would be the natural pairing, but transit operates

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 very similarly. If you've got a two-way, a two-lane, one-way street, then if a delivery

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 truck or a transit vehicle needs to stop to unload cargo or passengers, they're going

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 to block a lane. There's just no way we can avoid that. So if you've got a one-way, two-lane

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 scenario, you've got a bypass lane. So the vehicle will just, if you're behind that transit

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 vehicle, that delivery vehicle, you have the opportunity to change lanes and move forward.

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 On a two-way street network, where you've got that same amount of pavement, you've got

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 two lanes and now you've got one in each direction, if a transit vehicle or a delivery vehicle

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 needs to stop and unload, they take the entire lane and typically it's not safe or you may

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 not have the opportunity to get around it. So that's a significant consideration of how

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 we want to maintain our, or manage our congestion, because that can lead to some significant

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 additional delays if you've got a lot of deliveries or a lot of transit stops in a corridor that

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 you've converted from one-way to two-way. Next slide, please. So on-street parking may

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 limit or preclude on-street bike facilities. So this is just something that is, again,

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 and we'll talk a little bit more about parking later in the presentation, but it's just,

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 again, we're dealing with a finite amount of pavement. We're not going to reconstruct,

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 so it's the same curb to curb that we've got today. And it's all about the choice of what

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 we want to put in that pavement. Is parking more important? Is bike more important? Is

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 transit more important? These are all decisions that need to be made and weighed prior to

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 that conversion. So next slide, please. Congestion. Next slide. So one-way streets provide up

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 to 50% more lane capacity. A lot of that is due to the friction that we talked about.

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 You get more throughput when people don't have to worry about a car coming at them from

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 the other direction. You've got fewer delays associated with left turns, because all the

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 turns off of the main street are free. So you don't have to wait. If I'm on a one-way

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 street and I want to turn left, I get in that left lane and I turn left. I don't have to

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 wait on anybody. It allows for greater vehicle throughput, but again, that's that two-edged

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 sword. It can lead to faster vehicular speeds and that more intense, more severe crash history.

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 A two-way street network provides less, and I'll call this capacity or throughput, because

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 again, as we saw earlier, those number of conflict points are much higher. And if you

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 want to make a left turn from a two-lane, two-way street, you've got to wait for that

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 gap between traffic in the opposite direction to make your left turn. So very much like

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 a delivery or a transit vehicle, when that left turn is happening and there's traffic

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 coming the other direction, everybody behind that vehicle has to stop and wait. So that's

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 again, it adds to delay, adds to some perceived congestion. Next slide, please. Very, very

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 much a follow-on point. The increase in efficiency for vehicular flow, that progression, even

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 if you're in a corridor with signals, with one way and you can think about Elm on Locust

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 or Oak and Hickory, we can time those signals so that because there's no left turn conflict

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 there's nobody coming in the other direction, we can time them so that as you get to that,

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 as you approach the next signal, it turns green. And as you approach the next signal,

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 it turns green. On a two-way street, those left turns will typically hinder that progression.

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 Now, you can still achieve it, but not nearly to the same extent. Next slide, please. This

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 is an important concept for people who may not be using those roadways, but might live

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 adjacent to them. Because we've got this one-way configuration that's able to carry more efficient

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 flow of traffic, may have higher vehicular speeds, it's much more attractive for people

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 who are simply going from point A to point B to stay on those roadways. If we convert

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 those to two-way and start increasing that congestion, increasing that delay, the left

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 turns are kind of clogging stuff up, deliveries may be blocking lanes periodically, what we

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 see is that people will find, even though it may not be truly faster, it is perceived,

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 they perceive that they are saving time by cutting through. And a lot of times, unfortunately,

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 this is through a neighborhood. So a lot of the residential streets, there are a lot of

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 residential areas that are parallel or adjacent to these corridors, we'll see an increase

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 in what they call cut-through traffic. And that's something that we typically try to

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 avoid because those areas, we'll see a higher pedestrian, a lot of especially younger age

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 pedestrians, kids using the street to go from house to house, and it puts those pedestrians

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 at greater risk. So next slide, please. So these are some slides just from our mobility

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 plan, our 2045 model. And it just, it wants to show you what the impact of conversion

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 from the one-way grid that we have today to a two-way grid on those four streets. And

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 if you look at this, these are all one-way. And so about where the cursor is, you can

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 see where Elm and Locust and Carroll and then Oak and Hickory. We've got about, and I'll

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 start with Oak and Hickory, about 18,000. And Todd, if you can just, I'm going to do

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 Oak and Hickory and then we'll toggle to the next one and we'll toggle back and then we're

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 just going to jump back and forth so we can look at two corridors at a time. Yeah. So

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 there, okay. 17,900 jumps up a little bit to 20,000. And then, but in the middle, if

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 you'll look, so stop here for a second, this is two-way. You've got 3000 on Oak and 1300

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 on Hickory. Jump to the previous slide. And this is the one-way configuration. Those volumes

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 are significantly higher. And what that shows us is as we increase or as we convert the

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 one-way streets of Oak and Hickory to two-way, that introduced congestion, that delay associated

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 with the left turns is enough to drive a significant portion of those vehicles, those motorists,

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 two parallel facilities. In that area, that's very residential. So a lot of those houses

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 that are roadways parallel to Oak and Hickory are going to see an increase in traffic volume

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 because Oak and Hickory are no longer as convenient and comfortable and attractive to travel.

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 So let's look at all one-way. I'll stay on this slide. Elm and Locust. So you'll see

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 about 15 on the north side, north of University, 15 to 17,000 vehicles a day. And it's pretty

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 consistent through the corridor, 18,000 and down 17,000 in downtown. Carroll is about

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 40, jumps to 46, and then 47 to 48 south of downtown. So let's go to the two-way slide.

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 So here you see the migration. Elm and Locust are significantly down, up to 35%, 40% lower.

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 And they've all moved to Carroll. So as you see, the Carroll went from 44 and then 42,

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 which is again, we're seeing some migration off of Elm and Locust. May not make it to

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 Carroll, but may make it to some parallel facilities where we really don't want that

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 traffic. So that's really the point of this is I wanted you to see numerically the magnitude

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 of that potential diversion, that migration from the primary corridors where we really

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 want those vehicles, we can accommodate them, we can handle them, we can make the progression

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 work, and we can address safety issues, versus when we get them into parallel facilities

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 that may only have stop control, we may not be able to accommodate and manage that traffic

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 to the same level. So let's move on. Next slide, please.

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 So this is the last slide before I want to open it up for discussions. And this is just

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 a little bit about parking, because parking, again, plays that role of it serves the function

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 of a lot of the older parts of town that didn't provide a lot of off street parking, relied

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 on on street parking, but parking also limits what we can do with that existing pavement.

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 Again, we're not widening. So we're looking at the existing curb to curb distance and

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 how we manage that and what's the highest and best use for that pavement. Parking is

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 certainly one of those choices. So again, we talked about parking may conflict the bike

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 facilities. And if we have parking on both sides of a two way street, probably not going

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 to have room for a dedicated or separated bike facility. We're going to have the bikes,

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 it's going to be a shared lane, which is not really the level of safety that we're trying

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 to provide citywide. Just a little bit about different kinds of

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 parking. Parallel parking offers the greatest flexibility. It allows one way or two way

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 doesn't really matter how you enter that. However, it doesn't provide the same quantity

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 of parking spaces. So if we convert angle parking to parallel, we're going to lose significantly.

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 But we're going to get rain some we're going to one gain some pavement. And we're going

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 to gain some flexibility as far as how we use that pavement. Again, the angle parking

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 requires almost twice as much as one way and typically will limit it to one side. So typically

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 angle parking is linked to a direction of travel, like exception would be the reverse

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 angle back in parking that we have on McKinney, excuse me, McKinney Hickory, east of Locust.

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 We can we can convert formerly angle parking into reverse angle parking. However, the popularity

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 that is yet to be determined. And then the last point is if a roadways converted

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 two way operation, angle parking may need to be adjusted without current modifications.

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 And if we do that, so if we if we flip the direction and you look around the square where

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 we've got angle parking and it's it's set for like eastbound directions, if we converted

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 that to a two way roadway, we'd want to flip the angle if we wanted to maintain heading

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 parking on the north side of Hickory. And what that does is without if we're not going

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 to modify the way those curb islands are built, we're going to lose five to 10% of our parking

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 supply just in the restriping. So that's the last slide. I've got some some discussion

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 on recommendations, but what I'd really like to do and the reason we're here today is to

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 get your input before we really set our recommendations, we want to we want the feedback from this

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 group as to how you think the conversion from one way to two way would impact the downtown

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 area. And if there are pros and cons, if there are concepts or ideas, that's what we'd like

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 to hear from you today. So I'm going to open it up. I'll stop talking and I'll open it

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 back up to the group. And we'll just take your feedback from here. So thank you very

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 much. Thank you, Brian. If anybody would like to ask questions or give provide some feedback,

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 raise your hand and I will try to call on you. We might want to have that screen back

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 up and go go back to a couple of those slides if that's that that's possible. We can we

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 can do that. Everyone will be small on the screen. So it might be harder for you to see

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 him Marty. But if I see him on my bigger screen, I'll let you know. I think John had his hand

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 up. Yes, sir. Good morning, everybody. Full disclosure, we had a presentation of Main

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 Street Association, I guess around a month or so ago. A lot of the feedback that we had

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 was, everybody was kind of interested in it. But some of the comments were that it it,

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 it seemed like something to take on right now that we're just trying to get through

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 it and, and maybe put it off to next next year. But there was one interesting comment

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 that it does seem arbitrary, even to local residents, let alone visitors to downtown

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 about the one way and two way streets. It's it's two way on East Oak and East Hickory,

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 but it goes to one way on West Oak and West Hickory. But I think I love the idea that

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 changing Elm and Locust to an East, a West Oak and West Hickory to two way. Is it possible,

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 Brian, that if we were to make the all the all the streets that are coming to the square

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 two way and then when you get to the square, it's it's like a large roundabout where you

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 can only turn right to get on the square. We keep the square itself one way around.

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 So all streets leading to the square, you would turn right. And if you wanted to get

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 to the other side of the square, you would just like a large roundabout. We keep the

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 parking the same. We keep the two, the two lane one way for deliveries. And so we never

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 we don't have that option obstacle rather. But I just wanted to get your thoughts on

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 making the square itself a large roundabout and converting all the streets leading to

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 it two way. OK, so my response is certainly 100 percent. My parents grew up and still

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 live in a small town in south Texas that has a square just like that. All the streets leading

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 up to the square two way and then leaving the square two way. But the square is a it's

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 a counterclockwise roundabout exactly as you described. So that's that is a historical

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 example of how we can treat the one way interface with the two way. And I will say that I like

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 that concept better than the current way that Hickory intersects Locust. When you have in

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 that outside on the north side lane, you know, you're facing west as you're coming from from

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 East Hickory and then you've got a car facing you in the same lane that is eastbound coming

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 from West Hickory. That's just it's hard for the traffic engineering to deal with because

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 it's you've got two cars that want to use the same lane and it's not it's not necessarily

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 a safe. So what you're describing is something that is at least in Texas has been a historical

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 practice and certainly is an option we can we can look into. Yeah, we just the south

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 south Elm and south Locust Street are very wide streets. And I think having those two

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 lane to excuse me two way there's enough room for either putting parallel parking all the

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 way down or certainly enough room for two bike lanes coming from the from the south

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 to the square. And the the added benefit of having south Elm two way is that when you're

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 coming down Fort Worth Drive and you're wanting to get to the square, you turn right on I

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 guess that I don't know what that street is right there where the you turn right off of

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 Carroll to is that eat? Well, no, before Eagle, what's that where the day laborer pickup is

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 for work drive? Yeah, I guess you just turn right on Fort Worth Drive and then you can

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 go straight across Eagle on an Elm to get to the square instead of having to turn right

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 on Eagle and then left on Locust just get up north on the square. I think there's a

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 lot of benefit to that. But I personally I like the idea of just keeping the square one

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 way as it is. Bob. You're on mute. Bob. Bob, you're on mute. Unmute. Okay, can you hear

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 me now? Yep. Okay, I agree with john for another reason. We're already so congested around the

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 square. And, of course, we get the comments about no parking, etc, etc, all the time people,

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 the merchants and whoever has a business on the square. I think going to parallel parking

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 around the square and the dual lanes for the bikes just exacerbates that problem. I think

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 you need to stay with the diagonal parking, which gives us more parking. It's faster.

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 You don't have the congestion backup that you would. So I agree with the concept that

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 john just explained. Thank you. Monty. We'll start with a geometry lesson real quick. You

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 can't call something that's one way on the square a roundabout. It would be a square

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 roundabout. Just a little technicality there. I'm not a meteorologist or anything, but I'm

385
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 pretty sure you can't make a square round. I think the problem that we have with the

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 one way streets, and I think we addressed it as really as much as anything a safety

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 issue. I've been to a couple of the police downtowners meetings over the years, and I

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 think they've from I guess it's eagle to the square. They've clocked people 5560 65 miles

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 an hour on that road and people see, you know, those two lanes as basically a short term

390
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 Autobahn three lanes, three lanes, right? I think I've had Congress, Alex, Alex came

391
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 to what pain came to one of our meetings and I think, you know, he actually would be an

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 advocate on some of those roads is of potentially more congestion. And what I mean by that is

393
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,760
 actually choke those roads down to fewer lanes if they're going to stay one lane and put

394
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,280
 parking on either side of them. You know, his point is a lot of those places in there

395
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,080
 inhibit business in that they're sort of a parking desert on a couple of those that's

396
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:38,300
 not except for private parking. But I really think the state the heart the more people

397
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:43,880
 go past a business on a one way street, the more people go past a business and they miss

398
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:48,160
 a parking spot or they miss the address and they realize they have to go all the way around

399
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:53,420
 the island to get back to where they came from. I think you start to get a frustration

400
00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:59,200
 factor. I think that frustration factor leads to a speed factor and that speed factor leads

401
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,880
 to a safety factor. When I look at the stats on the one way streets, there's three times

402
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,280
 as many injuries on those one way streets. There's a hundred and a little more than 150%

403
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,640
 of the accidents. And there's two deaths and we can say, well, it's only two deaths. But

404
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,660
 I'm pretty sure if you went back and asked those two people, they would say for them

405
00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:26,720
 it was fairly consequential. I just think I just think that the harder to get we as

406
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,480
 a business owner, the harder you make it to get, you know, I always say the moon may be

407
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,600
 a nice place to visit, but it's hard to get to. So nobody goes there. And the harder you

408
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,920
 make a business to get to the more moon like it becomes. And I see all of the advantages

409
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:45,240
 of the one way, but I think the harder to get to factor and the speedway factor for

410
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:50,800
 me outweigh any sort of advantage that you get from the faster throughput, because I

411
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:57,920
 think that faster throughput actually gets mitigated in a lot of ways, um, just by people

412
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,800
 will be going fast. They'll miss where they're going, particularly those visitors. Now they

413
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,280
 or they accidentally went right past the parking space and they've got somebody behind them.

414
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,280
 And now they've got to go all the way around the block and they know darn well that space

415
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,200
 won't be there when they get back.

416
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:24,600
 Well, am I still alone or do I need to unmute? You're on. Okay. Well, Monty, I would agree

417
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:30,520
 with what you're saying with exception of the square. Um, I would go with, with the

418
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:35,920
 two lane, the two way traffic on, off the square. But I think on the square, we don't

419
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,760
 have the problem that people going too fast on the square there. The problem would be

420
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,720
 how to get into that parking place that you find and how much traffic are you holding

421
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:50,200
 up as you find it. And so I think you want to stay with the, I'll, I'll still go with

422
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:56,120
 a roundabout. I lived in England a long time. So that's easy for me to say, um, as opposed

423
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:02,920
 to, uh, trying to go too way around the square. I a hundred percent concur. I'm going to weigh

424
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:09,920
 in, uh, while we're waiting for other people to raise their hand. Um, I live and work down

425
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:18,480
 here, so I'm on all these streets, mostly on foot and I cross Elm street, uh, south

426
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:25,000
 of the square on Mulberry, a minimal of four times a day. And it scares the bejesus out

427
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,040
 of me because I can't see when I'm walking across because of all the parking in front

428
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,800
 of the church and out in front of Hannah's on the street. You have to peer around the

429
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:40,760
 corner and people may be going 30 miles an hour, but it seems like they're going a lot

430
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:46,520
 faster. Um, I think as Alex pointed out, that's a three lane road. We, we don't have three

431
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:56,880
 lanes on our 35 in some areas. And so it's, it is really easy. And then, um, we took out

432
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,180
 traffic lights on the north side of the square heading back into the square. And so that

433
00:48:01,180 --> 00:48:05,880
 sped up everybody on the north side so that they can come screeching down to the square.

434
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:11,800
 So I would, to me, it's a safety factor. I think some of the discussions we've had in

435
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:21,160
 the past have been, um, how do we slow traffic down around the square? I would agree with

436
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:29,180
 everybody on the square proper. It's slow, but getting there, it's fast. And anything

437
00:48:29,180 --> 00:48:35,900
 we can do, I would say you divert people, you know, Elm and Locust used to be the way

438
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:40,720
 you got across town. I mean, those are old highways and they really, if you're trying

439
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:49,080
 to get from point A to point B and you're not going to downtown to shop or eat or live,

440
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:55,000
 we probably need to be on Carroll. I mean, that's, we want the through traffic, uh, north,

441
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:01,780
 south, east and west, I would say to go around the square too. And so if, if, if we can slow

442
00:49:01,780 --> 00:49:07,560
 those one way streets down or make them two way to, I would say, create more congestion

443
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:13,020
 to make it easier, more pedestrian friendly and more bicycle friendly. Um, I don't know

444
00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:19,240
 that I'm, uh, dead set on two, two way streets. I think that's my preference. It makes it

445
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:26,280
 easier for you to get to businesses. Maybe not the ones right on the square, but if you

446
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:32,560
 go a couple of blocks or several blocks, north, south, east and west, um, I don't can't, I've

447
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,880
 lived here almost 30 years and I still can't remember which street to turn on. If I'm going

448
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:43,240
 downhill to get to something on locus, I have to stop and think about it all the time and

449
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:48,560
 on the bicycle lane part of it. Um, if you really want to know what it's like on the

450
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:54,680
 streets and with traffic, I'd say get out on a bicycle and ride around. Um, even if

451
00:49:54,680 --> 00:50:00,480
 we have, if we can't expand the streets to have two lanes each way, I would rather ride

452
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:07,200
 my bike on a two way situation with slower traffic than down locust around or Hickory

453
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:12,440
 on a one way where we have parallel parking and cars going 30 miles an hour. And it's

454
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:19,720
 nice that we've been able to add bike lanes on Hickory and, and Oak on the, um, west side

455
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:26,760
 of the square, but it, it's pretty scary. Just driving from downtown to Bonnie bray

456
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,520
 on Oak at 30 miles an hour. If you're in that left lane and there's students parked up and

457
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,440
 down there, I mean, I think I'm going to get somebody's side view mirror all the time.

458
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:43,800
 It's just a kind of scary, not even going to speed limit. So I think the, if I could

459
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:50,280
 some summarize our past conversations in this group and main street, I think safety for

460
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,780
 pedestrians and slowing things down around the square is probably the overriding factor

461
00:50:55,780 --> 00:51:01,480
 whether we get that for two way or one way. I think, I think our goal would, we'd love

462
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:09,600
 to make it. I mean, going down Hickory even that's two lanes. I forget, is it 30 miles

463
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:16,640
 an hour? I mean, I feel fast. If I'm going 15, um, if you're going down on a Thursday

464
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:23,900
 evening and it's a two way street back in parking or whatever, it's, it probably ought

465
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:28,560
 to be a 15 mile an hour speed limit right there. It's, there's a lot of people walking

466
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:36,360
 around and a lot of trees and back in parking and all that stuff. So I would love to keep

467
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:41,360
 this conversation going. I think Bob said it, this may not be the best time to start

468
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,360
 redoing streets, but if we start planning that now, by the time everything's back to

469
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:54,640
 normal here in a couple of weeks, we should be able to get to work on them because I mean,

470
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,360
 we don't really have enough streets under construction now, so now would be a good,

471
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:05,480
 good time to start putting some more orange cones out. The work that's been going on on

472
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:11,960
 Elm and Locust south of the square the past couple of weeks has made things safer and

473
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:19,800
 it's made a one way street and it makes it easier to cross the street on all, all sides

474
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:26,760
 and I know Alex would echo that if he were here. Melissa?

475
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:37,720
 Yeah, I want to also give a thumbs up to the idea of let's look at traffic in the way pedestrians

476
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:43,040
 move downtown, whether it's, I don't know, two way or one way, but like the crosswalk

477
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,080
 that we now have on McKinney is, is pedestrian friendly and maybe there's a way to do that

478
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:55,200
 better on a one way or two way, I don't know, but to keep that in the forefront of the decision

479
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:06,440
 making process is to look at how pedestrians get around downtown.

480
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:12,560
 Anybody else have any comments or questions? I would imagine that if we had something that

481
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:19,040
 we think about later today or comments, we could send those into Christina or Jessica.

482
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,640
 For input, Melissa? Yeah, the other, the other question is, because

483
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,920
 we've been talking about that new outdoor seating concept and I don't know how traffic

484
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:35,200
 will play into that or if there needs to be long term decisions based on what we're considering

485
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:42,840
 doing on the new outdoor seating stuff. Yes, if you have comments or you think of

486
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,400
 something and it may not come to you until you're walking down there or driving around

487
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,000
 the square and you have an experience, please send us comments. I will share them with Todd

488
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:58,160
 and Brian or if you speak, I know a lot of you work and live down there and so if you

489
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,000
 think of something or you hear something from a neighbor, please share that. We want more

490
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:13,640
 input than less input so that we can keep working on a solution.

491
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,800
 Thank you, Brian. Appreciate the input and the opportunity for us to give some feedback

492
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:23,320
 on the streets. My pleasure.

493
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:34,720
 We want to get our results from our discussion on the grant so that Mr. Polito doesn't have

494
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:40,600
 to stick around here if he doesn't want to and even though it's a lot of fun.

495
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:54,000
 The total average score was 25. If you look at your score sheet, 25 allows a grant up

496
00:54:54,000 --> 00:55:04,040
 to $25,000. The request was for $7,314 which is more within that range.

497
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:27,480
 The scores average 25 which allows for a grant up to the amount of $25,000. The grant requested

498
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:35,640
 was $7,313. Anybody want to make a motion?

499
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,960
 Marty, this is Monte. I would move that we grant them the full amount of $7,313.

500
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:47,680
 I'll second that. All right. We have a motion for Monte and a

501
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:57,800
 second from John. Any further discussion? I'm going to go around the board again and

502
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:24,880
 ask for ayes or nays. Melissa? Aye. Bob? Aye. John? Aye. Monke? Aye. Hank? Aye. Beth? Beth,

503
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:35,680
 you're on mute. I think there was an aye. Michael? Aye. All right. I think I got -- Brock,

504
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:44,640
 I missed you. Do you hear me? Yeah. Say that again.

505
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:57,320
 I had to abstain. He had to abstain. Okay. All right. We have -- everyone has

506
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:03,440
 voted for it with one abstention. So the motion carries. Thank you for your time. And, Eric,

507
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:09,960
 we're excited about the project. Look forward to things getting back to normal and going

508
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:14,360
 over there and having a good time. So thank you for your investment. We appreciate you

509
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,320
 being here. You're welcome to stick around and watch and play music.

510
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:25,320
 I'm going to head out. But thank you all very much. It helps a lot. And, yeah, we'll keep

511
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,280
 you all posted on opening. Thank you.

512
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:38,680
 All right. We need to give some input. EDP 20-022, receive report, hold discussion and

513
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:46,800
 give staff direction regarding a pilot program in downtown for Parklets and Streeteries.

514
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:51,560
 So I will apologize to the committee. I am not Richard Canone, the director of planning

515
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:57,880
 who did the majority of work on this project. So I'm going to do my best impression of planning

516
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,360
 at this point. So if you have questions or anything that is beyond my expertise, just

517
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,960
 let me know and I will get an answer for you. It just may be next week. So I'm going to

518
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:19,520
 go through this is the presentation that city council saw on Tuesday. So essentially we

519
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:26,940
 were getting feedback from a number of businesses requesting the consideration of possible extensions

520
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:33,760
 of outdoor seating through what was called Parklets. So Parklets are the use of public

521
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:42,120
 parking spaces for outdoor seating, microparks, all different sorts of uses. And it actually

522
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:47,120
 came out of an initiative in San Francisco, but they have been implemented across the

523
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:54,080
 country in varying degrees and different concepts and things like that. There's also a parking

524
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:59,800
 day on the third Friday of September each year where cities temporarily transform parking

525
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:05,560
 spaces into parks. And so that's something that was pretty inspirational as we went through

526
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:12,760
 this. So in our proposal, we recommended consideration of two different concepts. The first is a parklet

527
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:19,080
 and that's the use of a public parking space for an actual park function. It's available

528
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:24,760
 for the use of anyone. So it's not limited to a specific business that might make sense

529
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:29,880
 in certain areas of downtown. So we wanted to leave that concept as a possibility. The

530
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:35,640
 second concept is a streetery. It's like a parklet, same general design and concept.

531
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:41,240
 However, that the streetery is reserved for specific use of a particular business, the

532
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:49,600
 business that holds the license and they can limit occupants in the streetery during their

533
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:56,840
 business hours to their customers. With the streetery, businesses would also be able to,

534
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:03,540
 if they had the proper food and alcohol permits, be able to serve customers in those areas

535
01:00:03,540 --> 01:00:09,240
 as well. Whereas a parklet, because it would be deemed park space, there would be no alcohol

536
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:17,680
 allowed. So it would follow the same rules as a city park. So we provided to city council

537
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:24,840
 a parklet manual and in that manual, it included addressing drainage and accessibility, landscaping,

538
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:31,160
 furniture, signage on parklets, design and safety, obviously safety being at the forefront

539
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:35,800
 of these. Anytime that we're introducing seating into an area that's normally reserved for

540
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:41,520
 vehicles, we want to make sure that we protect the individuals that are in those spaces.

541
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:48,320
 And then a consideration of the materials that can be used. So based on council direction

542
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:54,400
 that we received on June 23rd, we also provided information to Denton Main Street and made

543
01:00:54,400 --> 01:01:03,320
 a presentation to them and took that information to city council. Then on June 30th, we city

544
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,840
 council approved a pilot program. The pilot program will last for six months. It goes

545
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:13,960
 into effect on July 14th and it goes through January 14th. And so one of the things that

546
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:20,000
 we want to continue to do is get feedback during this pilot program. Certainly this

547
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,880
 is something that's new. And so one of the things that Richard and I have talked about

548
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,480
 throughout this process is we're not going to just step away for six months and come

549
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,920
 back and see how it goes. We want to continually get feedback. And if we need to tweak something

550
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:39,160
 or make an adjustment, we want to make sure that we have the flexibility to do that, which

551
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:45,320
 is why we wanted to bring it to this committee, even though it's already adopted. So going

552
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:52,160
 through what city council approved on Tuesday, the pilot program will not include Elm, Hickory,

553
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:58,200
 Locust or Oak streets. So that's for the entirety of the streets within the purple and pink

554
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:04,040
 areas you see there. That's the downtown zoning designation. The areas you see in kind of

555
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:12,560
 the pink color just have the overlay. There's a max of two parklets per block face. We know

556
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:17,440
 that there are some different sizes of block faces, but certainly that's something we'll

557
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:24,080
 look at as we go through this. Amplified music would not be permitted. As I mentioned, smoking

558
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,280
 wouldn't be permitted in either, but alcohol would be permitted in a street streetery,

559
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:35,260
 as long as the permits to allow that. There are some very small fees associated with this.

560
01:02:35,260 --> 01:02:39,440
 There's a permit fee of $50. And then if you apply for a streetery, there's an additional

561
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:45,080
 license of $50. And then furniture that would be allowed. Obviously, businesses could have

562
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:51,220
 tables, chairs, benches, as well as shade structures. The only thing that we would ask on the shade

563
01:02:51,220 --> 01:02:57,220
 structures is that they be taken down, especially in a streetery, that they be taken down or

564
01:02:57,220 --> 01:03:06,620
 that furniture that could be removed at night. So that there's not a risk continuing in that.

565
01:03:06,620 --> 01:03:10,280
 And then as I mentioned, the pilot program is going to run for six months, July 14th

566
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:16,060
 to January 14th. And at this point, we have the approved manual and license agreement.

567
01:03:16,060 --> 01:03:20,120
 And so starting next week, Richard and I will be working through how we process these and

568
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:25,240
 we'll be reaching out to some of the businesses that requested this to let them know that

569
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:32,080
 we're here to work with them through this and through their application so that we can

570
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:41,240
 see if we can get some parklets or streeteries in downtown Denton. And that's all I have.

571
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:52,460
 Anybody have any questions or comments? Bob? I was just wondering if you're able to say

572
01:03:52,460 --> 01:03:57,720
 who has requested that so far. I think it's a good idea. I'm interested who's involved

573
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:03,040
 with it. We have had a number of requests from different

574
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:10,800
 bars and restaurants in downtown. And so they no one has applied directly, but I believe

575
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:15,600
 the owner of the loophole spoke at a council meeting requesting one. And then we've been

576
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,800
 in discussions with a couple other businesses that have been interested.

577
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:27,920
 But as an example, loophole wouldn't be eligible, was that?

578
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,120
 They wouldn't be eligible for one on the front of their business. They could consider if

579
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:42,000
 they found a way to make it work on the back side, yes, on the new streets. The same with

580
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:49,440
 John's restaurant. And Monte's, I believe as well.

581
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:54,800
 What about something more semi-permanent on the square to allow for the ones that are

582
01:04:54,800 --> 01:05:00,160
 excluded from this to have an outdoor, like more of a static outdoor seating space. So

583
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:07,180
 as opposed to letting people sort of congregate on the square sort of willy-nilly just to

584
01:05:07,180 --> 01:05:18,360
 have like tables and chairs set up in that the county sets up or the city sets up.

585
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,600
 That's something that we can look at. It would be separate from this program that did come

586
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:30,280
 up in our conversations of would it be possible to do a separate public seating area? Obviously

587
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:38,220
 there are limitations in terms of permitting and locations and is it taking away from parking.

588
01:05:38,220 --> 01:05:43,000
 But if it's just something on the courthouse lawn, we can ask the county what their interests

589
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:47,240
 would be and have that discussion.

590
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:53,960
 What is the difference between a streetery, I mean is that on the street? Has to be on

591
01:05:53,960 --> 01:06:02,080
 the street. Where I'm kind of going with this is what is to prevent somebody from just putting

592
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,840
 some chairs out on the sidewalk. We have a couple of restaurants downtown that do that,

593
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:10,440
 some that don't.

594
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,760
 Yes, this is the specific use of a parking space.

595
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:14,760
 Okay.

596
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,680
 It would be separate from the sidewalk cafes.

597
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:28,240
 Has the council considered or has anybody considered maybe having a instead of it was

598
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,480
 raised a little fairness issue. Some people kind of first come first serve got it and

599
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,920
 then they had to wait because there's only a max per two per block. If we were to have

600
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:43,960
 something on the square that was a shared streetery that would be available only for

601
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:51,320
 not so much table service, but it could be shared for restaurants for delivery. Like

602
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:58,280
 they would deliver a food to go takeout, but a shared streetery for eating takeout that

603
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:06,880
 could be delivered to the table that we could all share instead of first come first serve.

604
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:12,200
 I think that we could think through the logistics of that. One of the challenges that we were

605
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:20,320
 dealing with was the service of alcohol. Obviously the rules are a little bit different right

606
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:27,640
 now than they are typically, but what would be allowed if it was sort of a shared public

607
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:33,720
 space and it was considered a park, then there would be no alcohol allowed. So that's the

608
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,920
 challenge of a central space.

609
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,920
 Isn't it just no alcohol on a park, excuse me, on a parklet, not a streetery?

610
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:46,480
 There's no alcohol. So the city's park rules would apply to a parklet, which would mean

611
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:47,480
 no alcohol.

612
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:52,000
 Well, could we designate it as a streetery?

613
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:58,120
 So under the definition that we've been adopted, the streetery is for a specific business.

614
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,560
 And then even if it was a, so if it was a shared space, it would fall under the park

615
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:08,040
 rules. The way that the code is the way that you're currently have defined it. Okay.

616
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,600
 I think the one advantage to what John's talking about, I understand it's a different definition,

617
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,720
 is let's say you wanted to, let's say I wanted to eat at Mellow Mushroom and Bob wanted to

618
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:21,040
 eat, you know, get ice cream at Beth Marie's and we were going to sit together, we're friends,

619
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,320
 we're going to meet down there, we're going to sit together and eat, but maybe I want

620
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:29,400
 to have a cocktail and all of a sudden I'd be precluded from doing that. And then he wouldn't

621
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:33,280
 be able to eat with me. I just, I think there are some advantages of that shared space that

622
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:35,280
 John's talking about.

623
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:43,680
 I guess they would have to redefine the streetery. So it's a shared, shared space for, I don't

624
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:49,000
 know if you can offer the full service piece because it might be difficult, might be not

625
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:55,480
 even close to your restaurant, but let's say I had one in front of Cartwrights and Leupold

626
01:08:55,480 --> 01:09:00,920
 could also use that space. And I guess we could deliver food for them. It would be kind

627
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:07,040
 of difficult for full service, but they can certainly deliver takeout for that. And I

628
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:13,280
 think that would, I mean, takeout delivery around the square that you're eating outside

629
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:17,720
 on a great day and somebody wants Leupold, somebody wants Dick's Coneon or somebody wants

630
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:22,200
 JJ's Pizza or Mellow Mushroom or what. So shared space might have some advantages.

631
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:27,000
 Yeah. I just think if I pay for the permit, I absolutely wouldn't want people bringing

632
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,400
 in outside food and drink. And I would, if I paid for the permit, I've paid for the furniture

633
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:36,800
 and I've built the streetery, I would say you can't bring in outside food or drink period.

634
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:43,680
 But if it was a common space, it would allow greater flexibility of people that are meeting

635
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:50,900
 there safely outside to be able to share a meal together with different food requirements.

636
01:09:50,900 --> 01:09:55,720
 Maybe someone's vegan or they want Thai and I want barbecue.

637
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:01,120
 John's wanting a couple of parking spaces, maybe on each side of the square that was

638
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,840
 to go order pickup only that everybody could use. So you could, if you were on the south

639
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:10,640
 side of the square or whatever restaurants there, there were designated spaces for people

640
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:16,360
 to pull into. So that really isn't any of the things that we've talked about. That's

641
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:23,320
 just a preserving parking spaces. Marty. Yes, Hank. Quick clarification though.

642
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,840
 We're not talking about the main arteries of the square. We're talking side streets

643
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:32,680
 with the streeter is right now. Correct? What was approved was that John was just asking,

644
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:38,240
 is there, is there a way to do something a little different for the restaurants on the

645
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:43,560
 square or something like that? Yeah. And I'm on the square, but you know, I could do something

646
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:49,120
 on Cedar street. It's got a little bit of a slope to it. So, um, and it just, it doesn't

647
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,200
 seem logical. I don't, you know, I don't know it, you know, I could be wrong, but there

648
01:10:52,200 --> 01:11:00,200
 could be wild success on Walnut street. I don't see how, but, um, but I was just, Hank,

649
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:05,640
 I was just suggesting maybe we, if we, if we redefine streetery, we can make that work.

650
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,440
 You know, it's, we have, we don't have any open container. You can drink beer outside.

651
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:15,000
 And I have a Cartwrights and I think Suzanne has one chestnut tree, a BG license that they

652
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:20,880
 can walk out with a bottle of beer if they want to. And, uh, and that kind of thing.

653
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,720
 Yeah. It just, the thing you guys consistently bring up is that the conflict with the trash

654
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,480
 pickup and the dumpsters and all that. I'm just trying to visualize how all that would

655
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:33,520
 work on streets like Walnut. But you all know better than me. I just go down there as a

656
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:38,880
 consumer. I don't live down there. So I will agree that, you know, through this process

657
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,200
 and we've really made, made sure that we want to learn from this process and listen to what's

658
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:48,720
 working and what's not working. And, and we have had to take into account, and I, I don't

659
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,000
 want to speak for the city council, but I know that a lot of comments that we received

660
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:58,140
 back, the reasons that the square and, or Elm and Hickory and Locust and Elm were removed

661
01:11:58,140 --> 01:12:02,980
 were concerns for parking and then concerns about the travel speeds, which again is something

662
01:12:02,980 --> 01:12:08,840
 related to what you were talking about in your last item. And so, um, definitely we're

663
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:16,080
 trying to balance as many interests as we can. Um, but nothing stops us from continuing

664
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:20,920
 to get feedback and make adjustments as, as we're hearing from, from the businesses and,

665
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:21,920
 and the community.

666
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:28,400
 Hey Jessica, this is Michael Talley. What has been the discussion internally and maybe

667
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:35,520
 y'all had some, some businesses present at council as well on, on the differences between

668
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:40,440
 a park with streetery and utilizing some of the sidewalk space or do y'all see that as,

669
01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:44,120
 you know, the restaurants, most restaurants are already utilizing that space and there

670
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:49,960
 just wouldn't be enough space for, um, basically patrons to, to walk back and forth in front

671
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:53,400
 of the restaurants.

672
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:58,400
 So we didn't talk specifically about the, these in relation to the sidewalk cafes or

673
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:03,600
 any of the outdoor seating that restaurants have. Our primary goal was just providing

674
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:12,040
 extra, um, space to restaurants. Um, when we were on the limited occupancy levels for

675
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:17,760
 COVID and so that was our, that was sort of the impetus to this and how it came to us

676
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:25,000
 and the requests were made from businesses themselves simply to allow them, um, especially,

677
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:30,200
 I believe it first came up when the very, if you think back a few months ago when reopening

678
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:37,480
 was very first starting, there was this outdoor only, um, seating allowed in that first phase

679
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:40,360
 and that's when we started this process.

680
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:47,200
 Okay. I know we, we have reached out to, um, well, there's many cities that have done different

681
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:52,440
 things, but I know one of the first ones we reached out to was Southlake. Um, they did,

682
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:57,320
 they temporarily sort of, you know, allowing their restaurants to utilize more sidewalk

683
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:01,600
 space just because of that outdoor requirement and that, you know, the indoor dining percentage

684
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:16,920
 is obviously much lower and there were, there were some issues with that.

685
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:22,600
 There any other questions? Um, certainly, like I said, this is, we are learning right

686
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:28,240
 alongside with you and we're going to be on this journey with all of the businesses in

687
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:36,080
 downtown and all of the patrons who are experiencing this. Um, so let us know what the experience

688
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:42,120
 is or let us know ideas that you have or ways that we can make this better. Um, our goal

689
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:46,680
 is to support, support all of our downtown businesses to the best extent that we can

690
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,600
 and give them every opportunity to succeed.

691
01:14:50,600 --> 01:15:01,760
 All right. I guess, uh, we'll move on to the staff report.

692
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:09,000
 Okay. Um, under openings, you've had this Denton Sports Chiropractic, which is in the

693
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,000
 former.

694
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,000
 Hypnotic Donuts.

695
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:18,320
 Hypnotic Donuts. Thank you. Um, Red's Yard did open, but I haven't seen them open since

696
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:24,640
 their initial opening and that's in, uh, Ken's Produce location over there on the go. Cookie

697
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:31,040
 Crave opened, Salon Indico. And then after the posting of the agenda, Three Wishes opened

698
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:38,400
 in the former Market on Oak location, which closed. Um, Nift closed, Scrap is closed,

699
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:45,560
 Freaks and Geeks, Source Gaming Lounge, Cryptozoology, Escaping the Square. And then additionally,

700
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:50,840
 since a posting, we've seen, um, announcements from Mad World Records, Wine Squared, and

701
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,600
 the Juice Lab.

702
01:15:52,600 --> 01:16:01,920
 Um, coming soon, we still have Oak to Hickory. I mean, sorry, Hickory to Oak. Um, Caskey's,

703
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,480
 which has been under construction for several months. I have not been able to confirm their

704
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:12,960
 location or not the location, but their opening at the new location. And then on the downtown

705
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:19,280
 Grants, um, the Movement Lab has successfully completed construction and received their

706
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:26,360
 grant. And if you have an opportunity to drive by McKinney, um, Mr. Dow has really been moving

707
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,400
 along on his project. So I expect him to finish pretty soon.

708
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:41,560
 Um, next meeting date is August 6th. And that's my report. Nift was, um, a second hand, like

709
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:48,240
 vintage clothing. They were on Austin Street there in a small space.

710
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,360
 And I'll have one correction on the meeting date. You normally would meet on August 6th.

711
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:57,360
 Um, we do have limitations. This is our only room and our only ability to host all of the

712
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:03,360
 remote meetings. And City Council, I believe, has a budget workshop scheduled for that day.

713
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:09,680
 So we will be bumped. Um, so we'll send out an alternate date for August, um, to the committee

714
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:20,600
 members as soon as we find an available date. Okay. Anything else? Anybody has for the good

715
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:29,040
 of the order? Happy Independence Day, everybody.

716
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:36,320
 Thank you for being here today. I appreciate everybody's input. And, uh, I think it'll

717
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:41,360
 be okay if I say this out loud, Alex family dog died in the middle of the night. So he's

718
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:48,000
 dealing with that with his family this morning and rough times and best wishes to him and

719
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:53,200
 his family. And, um, thank you for being here. We'll see you all soon.

720
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,120
 Okay. Adios. Thanks. Thank you.