WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.320 Okay. Welcome everybody to the Board of Ethics meeting for today, June 25th. We're doing 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:20.480 this on Zoom, obviously. I think in the foreseeable future we'll be doing Zoom meetings if and 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:26.400 when we have them. I think that's what the city's mandate and I think it's most healthy 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:33.560 for all of us. And I think before we got on, I think everybody can hear and we can hear 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:46.720 everybody, all the members. So we'll first take attendance. Let's see. Ronnie, Mohair 00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:53.800 is not here. Me, Laura Tomlin, I'm here. Dawn Cartwright. Charlotte Bradshaw is not here 00:00:53.800 --> 00:01:01.920 and she had a work conflict, so it's excused. Annetta Ramsey is here. Our new member Patricia 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:10.320 Renke is here. Ron Johnson is not on the Zoom. Deborah Cosmo, Rob Brainer and Bob Swanbeck 00:01:10.320 --> 00:01:16.880 are on the call and they're alternatives that will be taking the place of members today. 00:01:16.880 --> 00:01:25.320 So let's move to agenda item 1A, consider approval of the minutes for February 13, 2020 00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:33.040 and the minutes were sent out to everyone. Does anyone have any problems with the minutes? 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:42.000 And if I could have a motion to approve the minutes for February 13. Motion by Dawn Cartwright. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:52.320 Is there a second? By Rob Brainer. And if there's no discussion, all in favor of approving 00:01:52.320 --> 00:02:00.000 the February 13, 2020 minutes? Aye. All right. So we'll approve those minutes. It seems like 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.240 a million years ago we had that meeting, but okay. So item 1B. Sorry, Laura. Laura. Sorry, 00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:10.320 I'm going to have to cut in the way that council has been doing this, especially because we 00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:14.920 still have one of our members now on the phone and not on the video. So we can't see his 00:02:14.920 --> 00:02:19.040 vote. And if everybody says aye at the same time, we can't record it properly. You'll 00:02:19.040 --> 00:02:29.320 just have to do it by roll call. Sorry. Okay, that's fine. All right. So I'm in favor. Dawn. 00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:41.640 And Annetta? Aye. I guess Patricia, I don't know. Actually, no, you don't abstain under 00:02:41.640 --> 00:02:47.480 our rules. You don't have a conflict. Basically, you're approving it because you don't see 00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:57.520 any errors with it. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you, Trey. Thank you. Okay. And Debra? 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:08.960 I think you're muted, Debra. Yes. Okay. Rob Rayner? Yes. And on the phone, Bob Swambat? 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:17.360 Aye. Okay. All right. So are we all good, Trey? Yes, ma'am. Good to go. Okay. All right. 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:27.160 Moving to item 1B, hold a discussion of current membership of the Board of Ethics. And let's 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:39.560 see here. And let's see it up on page. Good to go. Okay. So on May 23rd, 2020, Larry Beck 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:48.040 resigned from the board. He wasn't on too long, but he gave good, he gave good discussions 00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:55.080 while he was on the board, and we wish him well. And our newest board member is Patricia 00:03:55.080 --> 00:04:05.840 Renke, nominated by council member Maltzer. So welcome, Patricia. And Madison Rorschach? 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:14.880 I'm sorry. It's Rorschach. Okay, Rorschach. She is our, she's with the auditor's office 00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:20.840 and who we're working with right now. The city council has not filled Umesh's position. 00:04:20.840 --> 00:04:26.660 And then Betsy has also left the city. So Madison is who I've been dealing with to set 00:04:26.660 --> 00:04:34.720 up the meeting and who we'll be dealing with until, I guess, until Umesh's place is filled. 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:45.560 Okay. So if there's no other discussion on new membership, we'll move to 1C. Receive 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:50.760 a report and hold discussion regarding the May 19th, 2020 city council work session presentation 00:04:50.760 --> 00:04:56.280 and subsequent action items on June 2nd, 2020 city council agenda regarding changes to the 00:04:56.280 --> 00:05:03.160 ethics ordinance and rules of procedure. So via Zoom, well, I was on the phone, but city 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:09.480 council was on Zoom. I presented our ordinance changes and our rules of procedure changes 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.840 on May 19th. Madison actually put in a hyperlink for everybody. If you were able to go and 00:05:14.840 --> 00:05:21.840 watch that, it was a PowerPoint of everything we've pretty much talked about for two years. 00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:26.640 And there weren't really any questions. There was a question on conflict of interest and 00:05:26.640 --> 00:05:31.320 whether we are going to ask them to make an amendment on conflict of interest. And that's 00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:36.540 actually in our agenda item D. So not to start a discussion on that now, but they want us 00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:43.200 to report to them whether we are in an impasse as far as changing the conflict of interest 00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:47.640 or if we still want to work on that. But let's not discuss, let's save that discussion for 00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:53.880 agenda item D. Other than that, there really weren't a lot of questions. And on June 2nd, 00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:57.940 they approved the ordinance and the rules of procedure. The rules of procedure, it was 00:05:57.940 --> 00:06:06.080 just kind of house cleaning, nothing like substantive. And the ordinance now going quickly through 00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:11.320 what was approved, special council will be called when we have hearings that deal with 00:06:11.320 --> 00:06:17.600 the city council member because the city attorney has a conflict. Accused in the ordinance has 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:23.440 been changed to respondent. Now the respondent gets a copy of complaint. And in the past 00:06:23.440 --> 00:06:32.200 they didn't. Retaliation is now a violation of the ethics ordinance. What a relative is 00:06:32.200 --> 00:06:39.980 in the relative, a reference to the government code definition of relative is now in the 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:44.360 government and department supervisor has been removed out of one section because the ethics 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:50.480 ordinance is not applicable to the department supervisor. That's pretty much what I have 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:57.800 there. Are there any questions or discussions about that? Not seeing any. So we'll move 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:06.520 straight into agenda item 1D. Receive a report, hold a discussion and take necessary action 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:13.800 regarding potential changes to chapter 2 article 11 section 2-273A. And that is the section 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:22.240 on conflict of interest. And I'll pull up the agenda information sheet to show what 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:39.480 exactly we need to be deciding. All right. Okay. So as we know, we can recommend amendments 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:45.400 to the city, to the ordinance to the city council. And on May 19th, when I presented 00:07:45.400 --> 00:07:50.900 the city council directed the board of ethics to report back if the board had reached an 00:07:50.900 --> 00:08:00.440 impasse regarding the conflict of interest section of the ethics ordinance. And oh, actually 00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:10.360 clear that again, hold on. And Madison had gone back and we had talked about conflict 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:16.320 of interest at several meetings, January, a couple of times in February, August, September 00:08:16.320 --> 00:08:23.640 and October of 2019. And then most recently, February 2020 of this year. I believe back 00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:31.880 at one of the some of the 2019 meetings, we had former member David Zoltner give some 00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:36.720 suggestions for amendments on the conflict of interest. Deborah Cosmo has also presented 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:44.400 on that. And most recently, Annetta has brought four possible amendments to the conflict of 00:08:44.400 --> 00:08:53.160 interest. And we've never come to a consensus or majority as far as wanting to change it. 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:59.240 So that's where we are now. I think if we were to go back to them and say we're at an 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:03.200 impasse, it would the ball would be in city council court, as far as if they want to make 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:10.280 any changes to conflict of interest, if it stays with us. I guess we would just keep 00:09:10.280 --> 00:09:15.560 going the way we've been going, as far as people sending recommendations and having 00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:22.640 presentations of different recommendations to the city council. When I presented councilmember 00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:28.440 armature was the one that was asking. She was who I remember asking about the conflict 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:32.640 of interest. And she had asked if we had gone over the model code. And I think she had brought 00:09:32.640 --> 00:09:37.280 up the San Marcos ordinance is the one that she had brought up. And she asked if we discussed 00:09:37.280 --> 00:09:41.480 that. And I told her, yeah, we, we had because I think that's what Annetta brought to us 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:47.240 from what I remember, and on February 13, 2020. And we did not come to a majority or 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:52.640 consensus on that. So I guess what I would like to do is just everybody to kind of give 00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:57.760 her opinion. And I guess whatever the majority wants to do, whether we keep on working on 00:09:57.760 --> 00:10:02.440 this, or we say we're an impasse, which I think if we're at an impasse, I mean, it doesn't 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:08.760 mean we have to stay at an impasse forever. But based on our last meeting, sometimes I 00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:13.360 felt like we were kind of arguing in circles and not getting anywhere. So I don't want 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.800 us to waste our time. But if we think we could actually make movement and change something, 00:10:18.800 --> 00:10:23.560 then you know, we should, we can keep having meetings about it. So I'll stop talking now 00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:30.080 and let everybody else give their word. I think I didn't want to say that. I didn't 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.880 really think that the San Marcos code was the best. I thought the model code was the 00:10:33.880 --> 00:10:44.720 best. Can you hear me? Yeah, I had to turn up my, my earphones. Very quiet. Okay. I think 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:51.320 that West first code is the best. And I would love to see his definition, because I think 00:10:51.320 --> 00:11:01.040 it is a lot more broad than the code that we have. And I guess not, not to cut you off, 00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:05.680 if you have more to say, but I guess I don't want to get into discussion today of what, 00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:09.160 what are we going to change it to? We just needed to, do we want to keep on working on 00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:13.920 it? Or do we want to tell, tell city council at this point, we're at an impasse and we're 00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:18.880 not going to keep having meetings about it unless I guess something new happens maybe. 00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:23.880 So I'm guessing since I know you want, you like Westler's code, so I'm guessing you want 00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:37.080 to keep working on it. Let me take a tally so I can remember at the end. All right. Rob 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:43.680 Rainer. If we thank you, if we state that it's an impasse and we take it to the city 00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:52.600 council, are you saying then they have the option to make the decision for us and then 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:59.240 we adopt that and move on? And Trey can jump in if I'm getting this wrong, but I think 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:03.080 under the ordinance, we can recommend changes and they can take them or leave them. They 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.280 can vote for them or vote against them. But I think they have the power at any point to 00:12:07.280 --> 00:12:12.400 change the ordinance. So if we went to an impasse, they could change it or they could 00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:20.160 not change it. I think it would be up to them. Thank you. Right. I'll chime in just quickly. 00:12:20.160 --> 00:12:25.000 The difference here is the changes to the ethics ordinance, which is where conflict 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:30.160 of interest is versus changes to the board of ethics rules of procedure, where the rules 00:12:30.160 --> 00:12:33.920 of procedure y'all can come up with and they're subject to ratification of council. Council 00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:38.480 can always change the ethics ordinance itself, but can look to you for recommendations. So 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:45.480 if the board of ethics as a body does not have a recommendation as to a change for the 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.920 conflict of interest definition, council can still move ahead with a potential change to 00:12:49.920 --> 00:13:02.800 that without such a recommendation by the board. Does that help? Thank you. Yes, sir. 00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:09.120 All right. Rob, do you have feelings about whether we want to keep on meeting about the 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:14.720 conflict of interest or tell them that we're at an, and I keep saying impasse for now because 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:20.720 I don't want this to be like a cutoff forever. Things could change. But do you have a feeling 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:28.680 about that, Rob? I am, I'd like to hear from the other members if I could before I'm leaning 00:13:28.680 --> 00:13:35.920 either way. But I think it's, if I know that the council can make the decision themselves, 00:13:35.920 --> 00:13:40.160 I'm just wondering if that may be the best way to move on this right now, but I'd like 00:13:40.160 --> 00:13:49.080 to hear what others think. All right. Who else? Deborah? Yes. If we, if we sent it back 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:54.280 to council for clarification, I think there are several things that need to be clarified 00:13:54.280 --> 00:14:01.800 and perhaps they might be the best body to do that. Because I think part of our discussion 00:14:01.800 --> 00:14:09.560 is that we're really not clear about some of the terms. That's my opinion. One is that 00:14:09.560 --> 00:14:18.560 in code of ordinances, chapter two, section two dash 83, which is the rules and procedure, 00:14:18.560 --> 00:14:25.120 it references matter, but in the ethics code, it's pending matter. Are those the same thing 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:32.720 or are they two different things? Another is that financial interest in that particular 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:46.040 ordinance is the same as substantial interest in the Texas government code 171. So in trying 00:14:46.040 --> 00:14:54.960 to map out what means what, does conflicting interest equal financial interest? Does conflicting 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:00.520 interest equal financial interest, which equals substantial interest according to this ordinance? 00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:10.200 And then in the charter, we have another, we have that it's required a definition of 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:16.640 potential economic interest. So is economic potential economic interest the same as a 00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:20.880 pending matter of financial interest? So I think it would be very, very helpful to have 00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:27.960 a clarification of terms so we know what we're talking about and make recommendations. So 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:36.040 are you saying like have city council decide on those clarifications or have us have meetings 00:15:36.040 --> 00:15:43.400 about those clarifications? I think if we decide to throw it back to them, that we should 00:15:43.400 --> 00:15:50.120 say not that we're at an impasse, but we would like clarification of these terms and throw 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:55.760 that back to them. Because if we're talking about apples and oranges, we're never going 00:15:55.760 --> 00:16:03.440 to get to an agreement except fruit basket. Yeah, I think you might be right as far as 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:10.040 the conversations we've had about this thus far. It seems like people are just on or speaking 00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:16.760 different languages. Yeah, we are. And anyone that lives in Dunn should be able to pull 00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:24.160 this up and understand what it says. Your honor, one of the problems I believe we have 00:16:24.160 --> 00:16:30.120 and Deborah, you did a great presentation a couple of meetings ago, but it depends on 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:36.400 the situation that is presented to us. And each situation has been and I've said on most 00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:42.120 of the panels that have been presented to us. I think it's pretty self explanatory. And 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:49.120 I'm not sure that we need any changes now. And we can change and change and change. But 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:54.720 unless there's some specific problem that we have, I don't think that we have a problem. 00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:04.540 And I think I've reiterated that each meeting we've had. Yeah, honestly, I tend to agree 00:17:04.540 --> 00:17:10.280 with you, Don, on that one that I mean, the panels we've had, it seems like we've all 00:17:10.280 --> 00:17:14.960 been able to come to an agreement or the vast majority have been able to come to an agreement 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:24.080 on those. Also, David's letter we got was very, very interesting and very good. But 00:17:24.080 --> 00:17:30.320 I'm not sure that it would make either, either one of them we could work with and do. But 00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:39.280 I don't see a problem with ours. So and again, I don't like the word like the word impasse, 00:17:39.280 --> 00:17:45.400 but Don, I'm getting that you just don't think we need to make changes right now. I don't 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:51.520 I don't see where it's I think it's more confusing as trying to make all these little changes 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:57.320 in working with what we have right now. Because I haven't seen a problem with what we have 00:17:57.320 --> 00:17:58.320 right now. 00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:02.600 I actually tend to agree with you on that one. 00:18:02.600 --> 00:18:15.480 This is Bob, let me ask you a couple of questions. In past meetings, I got the impression that 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:24.280 the council itself was not fully focused, so to speak on what the code and what the 00:18:24.280 --> 00:18:34.600 languages and so forth should be. And if they're not focused, I'm not sure we can do anything 00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:47.160 besides make some recommendations. But furthermore, the elections are going to change the or potentially 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:57.320 change the nature of the of the council. So my general idea or feeling is that we we continue 00:18:57.320 --> 00:19:05.480 to try to come up with some things that the group itself can can recommend, but also look 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:12.600 at things that are happening or not happening relative to the ordinance itself, what kind 00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:19.000 of experiences are we getting or not getting that that says we need to tinker with something 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:26.560 further, particularly since we're looking at a delayed election. I think once the new 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:31.560 council gets seated, then we may be able to maybe able to get some more guidance from 00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:36.840 them as to where they think or excuse me, let me change that. What they would probably 00:19:36.840 --> 00:19:42.880 accept from the group, because I didn't get the impression that that they were ready to 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:46.120 make any kind of significant changes. 00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:55.160 Yeah, Bob, I, I, so I when I had presented to council before and brought back what they 00:19:55.160 --> 00:20:01.280 had said, I remember it being not exactly clear what they want it. And we discussed 00:20:01.280 --> 00:20:06.840 that. So I believe some members have talked about, you know, we need to bring forth whatever 00:20:06.840 --> 00:20:11.040 minute we have, no matter what the council does. But yeah, I don't think we've gotten 00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:22.600 a clear direction on what exactly they would they would want. I guess it's though. 00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:29.920 We as a group don't have a clear picture in our mind of what what the code ought to be. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:35.320 And as was stated a second ago, if it's pulled up by a citizen, what it's supposed to look 00:20:35.320 --> 00:20:40.120 like and read like. 00:20:40.120 --> 00:20:46.080 So I guess Bob, do you would you like to keep having media? Okay, I think somebody might 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:53.120 have I hear an echo. Would you like to keep having meetings about the conflict of interest 00:20:53.120 --> 00:20:59.560 or say that we've come to an impasse for for now? 00:20:59.560 --> 00:21:10.400 Is what I see the language being. But I also, as you stated, I think we need to have some 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:16.900 focus with our own discussions and what we're trying to achieve before we start looking 00:21:16.900 --> 00:21:22.860 at three or four different kind of options. So keep working on it. Yeah. And there's the 00:21:22.860 --> 00:21:27.120 old line, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's a flip side to that coin. If it ain't 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:34.360 broke, make it better. So I would say that we keep working on it, unless there's something 00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:43.760 else that's supposed to be done that I haven't heard about. But I think that just going belly 00:21:43.760 --> 00:21:48.600 up is not the way for the group to go. 00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:57.920 Okay. And, Patricia, I know you're brand new. Do you have feelings about this either way? 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.480 I imagine it's probably hard for you because you haven't been to the, you know, previous, 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.400 I don't know, seven or eight meetings that we've talked about this. 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:12.160 Talking about it. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, I'm unmuted. You've been talking about it 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.160 for how long? 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:28.640 Let me bring this back up on, it was on the agenda. All right, we have, it started in 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:36.320 January of 2019. We met January twice in February, August, September and October of last year, 00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:41.320 and then once February of this year. I wouldn't say that all the meetings were all conflict 00:22:41.320 --> 00:22:45.520 of interest because many of them touched on different subjects. I think at least a few 00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:51.160 of them were all conflict of interest. And I would say we've put several hours into discussing 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:58.920 this and haven't come to a consensus or majority. And if anybody thinks differently, they can 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.040 chime in, but I think that's where we are. 00:23:02.040 --> 00:23:11.760 Oh, gosh, I don't know. I mean, I wish I could give you an opinion, but I don't feel like 00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:15.120 I have enough information to give you an opinion. 00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:21.800 Yeah, it's completely understandable. I just want to make sure you could have a say if 00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:31.640 you want it. Let's see. And Deborah, you had spoken, but I assume you probably still want 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:41.000 to keep working on it, or are you saying we should go back and keep working on it? Okay. 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:46.240 Well, I guess, so my thoughts on this, I've already said I don't really like the word 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:51.280 in-pass because I don't want it to be like we're never going to look at conflicts of 00:23:51.280 --> 00:23:57.440 interest again. I don't think we've really gotten anywhere in our meetings in over the 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:07.360 past year and a half. I think that we kind of have similar suggestions keep coming up 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:17.080 and similar arguments, not similar discussions, and we come out with nothing. So I'm, I don't 00:24:17.080 --> 00:24:25.680 know, I guess I'm kind of like a few of you of being on the fence. I think that I don't 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:33.280 want to keep having meetings that are not productive, but I don't want to say we're 00:24:33.280 --> 00:24:38.480 never going to change conflict of interest. I think things could change. Somebody could 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.200 think up a brilliant idea that we haven't talked about yet that would really explain 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:48.400 it better and everybody would agree to. So I guess I'm kind of in the middle of, I don't 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:55.480 want to meet every month and discuss things for three hours and not really make any progress, 00:24:55.480 --> 00:25:01.440 but I don't want to just say we're at an impasse. We're never going to talk to it again. So 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:08.280 I guess I would want to tell council, it's a work in progress and we don't have anything 00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:16.300 for you right now. We'll see how things go. I don't know. So that's where I'm at. I guess 00:25:16.300 --> 00:25:21.660 I'm putting a question mark next to my name, as well as Patricia and Rob, unless anybody 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:25.600 changes their mind. And Rob, you said you wanted to hear from everybody. Do you have 00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:26.600 an opinion? 00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:33.000 Real quick before we go back to discussion in the round, I just wanted to point out just 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.760 because of our technical limitations, we're being asked on the back end if y'all could 00:25:36.760 --> 00:25:42.360 mute and unmute yourselves as we go along because of the propensity to have not being 00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:45.760 able to keep a clear record of what's going on if we're talking over one of each other 00:25:45.760 --> 00:25:52.960 and a delay or anything like that. Just let Laura know that you'd like to speak and she 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:58.160 can recognize you and then you can unmute then and that'll help keep the record clear, 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:02.340 especially for those who can't watch or because of a delay or something like that. Thank you. 00:26:02.340 --> 00:26:09.440 Thank you, Trey. Rob, did you have a opinion now after hearing everybody speak? And I recognize 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.440 Rob. 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:18.360 Oh, thank you. Well, if I understood Trey, if we submit this to the council, they could 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:23.820 make their decisions, but that wouldn't prevent us from still working on this for anything 00:26:23.820 --> 00:26:29.360 that may come up that we weren't ready for and then present that to them for a suggestion 00:26:29.360 --> 00:26:37.920 to change. Would that also then free us up a valuable time that we use at our meetings 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.560 to discuss something that we have not had much success with for the past seven meetings? 00:26:43.560 --> 00:26:48.520 I would prefer running it at the council and then it would free us up to take care of other 00:26:48.520 --> 00:26:52.920 issues that could be more pressing. What they are, let's see what they are and then we'll 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.320 know if they're pressing. 00:26:57.320 --> 00:27:06.800 Deborah, I recognize Deborah. 00:27:06.800 --> 00:27:14.760 I have a question for Trey. I think it would be very helpful to have a cross reference 00:27:14.760 --> 00:27:24.820 of the ordinance to the charter and that might help in figuring out exactly when we're talking 00:27:24.820 --> 00:27:29.860 about conflicting interest, how it ties into the charter. Has a cross reference like that 00:27:29.860 --> 00:27:33.360 been done? 00:27:33.360 --> 00:27:39.120 I'm sorry, I'm not really sure what you're asking for. 00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:47.800 In the charter it says prohibited economic interest. How does that cross reference to 00:27:47.800 --> 00:27:56.840 the current ethics ordinance? Is that pending matter or does it cross reference to general 00:27:56.840 --> 00:28:02.360 rules, the code of ordinance? I just want to know, is there any document that ties it 00:28:02.360 --> 00:28:06.760 all together so that we know that when we're talking about pending matter, it means the 00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:14.400 same as matter, financial interest, substantial interest? 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:19.800 We haven't prepared anything like that. I think probably if you go back to when it was 00:28:19.800 --> 00:28:24.180 drafted and Alan Borquez's firm was going through putting on all the provisions based 00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:29.240 on the charter amendment, there's probably some of that there, but we haven't prepared 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.440 something like that, no ma'am. 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:38.480 I would think that the charter came out and then the City Council had their 11 public 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:44.080 meetings and they worked on it and I would think they'd probably have to go back and 00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:57.800 look at all that to see maybe how it, when they came up with the language, I guess. So 00:28:57.800 --> 00:29:13.000 right now I have that Annetta and Bob and Deborah definitely want to keep having the 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:19.200 meetings about conflict of interest. I have that Don is saying we should just keep it 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:29.000 as is. Rob is saying we should send kind of this issue to council and can keep working 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:35.460 on things, but not necessarily conflict of interest. Patricia is brand new, so she doesn't 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:43.600 really have an opinion yet, this being her first meeting. So I guess it comes to me and 00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:55.440 I kind of think that we tell council, we don't have anything right now, and I think that 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.640 we should just keep, and this might come up in our next agenda item about future meetings, 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:07.200 I think that we just keep having, if people have ideas of amendments and things that they 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:13.520 want to discuss and work on for an amendment, they send them to me or me and Madison and 00:30:13.520 --> 00:30:20.680 then we just, the next time we have a meeting, we discuss those things. And if we don't have 00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:26.600 any recommendations, I guess we don't have, we wouldn't meet and we kind of just kind 00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:32.720 of play by, just keep going somewhat the way we've been going and maybe we'll discuss conflict 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:41.360 of interest, maybe we'll discuss other things like Rob was saying. How does everybody feel 00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:53.280 about that? Is there anybody that wants to speak up or, Annetta, I recognize Annetta. 00:30:53.280 --> 00:30:57.320 I really wanted to make a comment about, it seems like everybody's really worried about 00:30:57.320 --> 00:31:03.480 what council thinks, and that's an ethical blind spot that Westler talks about. He talks 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:09.840 about how when the governing body itself makes the rules, they never look the same as they 00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:18.200 do to the citizens outside. So I think we should definitely make, you know, whatever 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:26.600 recommendations we think as a group our best, and we should all weigh in on that. And they 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:38.240 can take it or leave it. I mean, I don't, the other parties could change a lot with 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:45.400 this election and we don't know when that's going to happen. Right? I mean, I, I think 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:55.280 the election's set for November, but you know, the way the world's going. November 4th? Wow. 00:31:55.280 --> 00:32:00.680 And I don't think that we're not afraid to take things to council. I think the bigger 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:10.840 issue is we can't get the majority of us to vote on a change, if that makes sense. I mean, 00:32:10.840 --> 00:32:16.280 I don't know if, I mean, I'm not too concerned, you know, whatever, I think that we should 00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:21.800 bring forth whatever we all agree on. I think the bigger issue is we haven't been able to 00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:29.320 find a, an improvement or conflict of interest that the majority of us can agree on that 00:32:29.320 --> 00:32:36.520 is, is, is that we, the majority of us feel is better than the current conflict of interest. 00:32:36.520 --> 00:32:48.680 I think that's the bigger issue. So, so what will we be telling council? Will we just tell 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:59.760 them that we're going to, we don't have a conflict of interest for them yet, but we 00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:05.680 will continue to work on amendments as we come up with them and as we come up with ideas 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:10.920 of how, how it can be improved. Does that sound like a plan or does anybody have a better 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:20.480 idea of what we should bring to council? And Trey, I guess does that, would that answer 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:25.000 their question? Cause I, I kind of don't, and I don't think I really heard from anybody 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.400 that like we're at an impasse. We're never going to talk about it again. Would you think 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:33.920 it would be acceptable to tell council, like we don't have anything for them right now, 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:39.360 but it's a work in progress. And as we come up with new ideas and discuss new things, 00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:43.720 we might come up with them in the future. I'm not sure exactly how we should answer that. 00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:49.360 Well, I think, I think you answered just where the board is. I mean, again, you're, you're, 00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:53.680 you're welcome to keep talking about it or you're welcome to move on to other topics. 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.400 I mean, it's, it's at the, it's at the pleasure of the board to decide what they want to do 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.800 with this particular topic. And I don't think that there's necessarily a wrong answer to 00:34:00.800 --> 00:34:05.760 that question. Council just asked where you stood. It's not necessarily that you're at 00:34:05.760 --> 00:34:09.520 an impasse. And even, even if you're not at an impasse, that doesn't stop council from 00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:12.560 considering themselves. Anyway, it's just, if a majority of council wants to consider 00:34:12.560 --> 00:34:18.600 it aside from y'all doing it at the same time, they can also do that. Okay. Well then I mean, 00:34:18.600 --> 00:34:25.240 I think we'll just report to council that we don't have anything for them on conflict 00:34:25.240 --> 00:34:31.800 of interest and we'll just keep going the way we've been going. I think, like I said, 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.680 council member Armator did bring up the, some city codes and the model code. And I did let 00:34:37.680 --> 00:34:42.640 her know that we have already discussed those. So I would say in the future and we'll, I 00:34:42.640 --> 00:34:49.120 guess we'll talk about that in the next agenda item. When we have future meetings that, I 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:55.080 mean, I would prefer that we, that things that we don't rehash the same discussions 00:34:55.080 --> 00:35:02.180 that we've already had and already voted on. So I think we will, let me look back at the 00:35:02.180 --> 00:35:06.360 agenda. I think that's how we'll answer them. I don't, I don't know if that's exactly what 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:11.800 they wanted, but I didn't, I don't know if I really liked the question more than I thought 00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:19.120 about it of are we at an impasse or not. Does anybody else have any comments about agenda 00:35:19.120 --> 00:35:26.520 item one D? Okay. I'm not seeing any hands or anybody speaking. Okay. So let's move on 00:35:26.520 --> 00:35:30.760 to, and Laura, since you can't hear the board member that's on the phone, you should probably 00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:36.680 ask him just to confirm in case he muted himself and was trying to speak up, but maybe forgot 00:35:36.680 --> 00:35:41.280 to unmute himself. You just might not hurt to double check with him. Bob, do you have 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:50.700 anything else? Well, I'm very hard to mute. But I agree with what, with what you're describing. 00:35:50.700 --> 00:35:59.480 And I think in the next section, I have a potential suggestion relative to process for 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:07.920 this agenda item and maybe others. Okay. Well, let's give me just a second and we'll get 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:16.920 back to you on that one. Hold on, I was going to bring this up and share my screen. Okay. 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:37.000 So the next agenda item is discussing future board meetings. And Madison listed all the 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:44.920 board meetings that we've had. She put that about a year ago in July of 2019, we unanimously 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:49.200 agreed to schedule a regular meeting for the last Thursday of each month. She also commented 00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:56.920 that currently we're doing all board meetings virtually. So it would be another Zoom meeting. 00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:03.400 Our rules of procedure say that either the chair or city auditor can call a meeting. 00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:08.240 It also says that on the request of three members, you can call a meeting, which I don't 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:12.960 really know if it's a good idea for three or more members to start talking about, we 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:17.080 need a meeting or not. Cause I feel like that might be a rolling quorum. So I don't know 00:37:17.080 --> 00:37:21.440 if that's something maybe we should look at in the rules of procedure, but so on the request 00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:28.000 of three members, the chair or the city auditor. And like I said, in the past, we have agreed 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:35.160 to schedule the meetings the last Thursday of each month. I think most recently we had 00:37:35.160 --> 00:37:40.200 the February meeting. We had a meeting scheduled in March and that's of course when a pandemic 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:48.760 hits the world. So we canceled that in person meeting in April. I think we were waiting 00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:53.440 on my presentation at council. Like we don't want to meet again before I present it because 00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:59.760 we just kind of didn't have anything new to talk about yet. So April was canceled in May. 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:04.200 The city council meeting I presented on was May 19th. So there wasn't enough time to get 00:38:04.200 --> 00:38:08.160 a meeting in before then. So now we're into June. And that's why our next meeting has 00:38:08.160 --> 00:38:18.680 been June. I think before that between when we, when we met at the end of last year, we 00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:25.820 would have people just send suggestions of what, what we wanted to talk about as far 00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:33.320 as amendment to the ordinance. And then we would have meetings on those topics. I would 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:41.760 say that keeping the regular meetings. I think that we, we could have it kind of scheduled 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:46.200 for people like put on their calendar. This is, this might be a meeting. And then we just, 00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:51.080 like we just discussed in the last agenda item, as things come up, if people have ideas 00:38:51.080 --> 00:38:57.960 of things they think we should discuss, we can have meetings as needed. And I think, 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:03.000 oh, go ahead, Madison. I just wanted to say, I worked with the city secretary's office. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:09.500 So we do have a meeting scheduled for July 30th, which is the last Thursday of July. 00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:15.480 But we do need like a little bit of lead time, right? Because they're virtual now. So we 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:18.960 just need to give it to the city staff a little bit of time before we can't just schedule 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:24.840 one very, very quickly. It's really just what I wanted to throw out. Okay. So how much lead 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:29.400 time do you need? Cause we could do something like if you have any suggestions for this 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:36.400 meeting, get it to us by July 10th or July 15th. And I mean, how long, how much lead 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:44.120 time do you think you need? Right now they're doing it about a month before. Okay. Yeah. 00:39:44.120 --> 00:39:51.880 We could just say we have, and I mean, I'll hear from the board. I'm just maybe be proposing 00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:55.960 something. We could do an August meeting and have whatever you want to do, get it to us 00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:59.840 by the end of July. And then we would talk about it at the August meeting. Cause it sounds 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:07.380 to me like we would need to know pretty quickly here if we want to go forward with that July 00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:18.160 meeting or yes. Yeah, I think so. Um, and, uh, actually I think Bob on the phone, uh, 00:40:18.160 --> 00:40:27.720 you had an idea as far as meetings. Would you like to share that Bob Swanbeck? Yes. 00:40:27.720 --> 00:40:39.280 Can you hear me? Okay. I don't think I ever muted, but, uh, very rarely do. Uh, I think 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:48.840 that we, we should do some ongoing activities and discussions about topics that are of interest. 00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:55.040 And when we have a topic like the conflict of interest and we can't seem to come to a 00:40:55.040 --> 00:41:04.280 meeting as a large group, let's think about giving it to a subcommittee to come back to 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:13.280 the group with specific recommendations, uh, about what changes, uh, are necessary and, 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:19.320 and what the language should look like, uh, rather than just, uh, you know, going around 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:26.880 and bouncing back and forth as you said, you know, going in circles. Uh, if a group goes 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:31.920 in circles, chances are they don't know where they're going. So, uh, a smaller group may 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:39.280 be able to put some focus to it. Um, I guess I'd like to know Trey, what are the rules 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:49.240 about that? Creating a subcommittee? Um, yes. And I mean, you could do it. We would need 00:41:49.240 --> 00:41:53.160 to post it at a meeting and have y'all create it at a meeting. We're not posted to create 00:41:53.160 --> 00:42:00.120 a subcommittee today, but I mean, it's something the board could do. Yes. Okay. So I guess 00:42:00.120 --> 00:42:05.880 what we, I mean, my thoughts on that is maybe, uh, you come up with what we want a subcommittee 00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:11.920 on. I know at one point, um, I believe it was David Soltner and Jesse Davis on at the 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:18.520 very beginning of this ethics board, they were on a subcommittee that, uh, I could, 00:42:18.520 --> 00:42:22.360 anybody can correct me if they remember differently, but I think they came up with some of the 00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:27.160 recommendations that we just got passed by council. So, um, I mean, that, that would 00:42:27.160 --> 00:42:31.800 be something that we can do. And I know, uh, uh, I don't know if Debra and Annetta worked 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:37.400 together on, on some of those presentations now. Okay. I guess it was just, um, maybe 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:44.800 them alone working on it. Um, so I wouldn't be against that, but I guess we would have 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:51.640 to get that on the agenda of, um, the next meeting or one of the next meetings if we 00:42:51.640 --> 00:43:04.760 were to do that. Um, other ideas. Oh, go ahead, Bob. Since we don't have a specific, uh, recommendation 00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:11.400 about the process, my suggestion is that we put it on the next agenda to talk through 00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:19.560 the idea of, uh, using subcommittees and what they need to be doing and what kind of, uh, 00:43:19.560 --> 00:43:22.840 legal things we have to go through in terms of posting and getting people together and 00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:28.920 all that kind of stuff. Uh, and I don't see any urgency right now in any of the things 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:35.600 we're doing, but I think some of this stuff is important enough to keep working on it. 00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:46.640 Uh, Rob, I think Rob raised his hand first. I'll recognize him. If I may. I think subcommittees 00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:52.040 are great. My concern is since we are doing zoom and evidently, uh, I'll call it bandwidth 00:43:52.040 --> 00:43:56.920 for lack of doing anything else is somewhat restricted. How would those, and we may discuss 00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:01.080 it, something we may need to discuss at the next meeting, how would those individuals 00:44:01.080 --> 00:44:06.760 get together and would it have to be zoomed? Would it have to be open to the public? Uh, 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:16.040 I'm afraid that we may be, uh, creating a more, um, attention that we don't really have 00:44:16.040 --> 00:44:20.360 as far as the energy that the city can give us to get all this together. As far as the 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:25.480 subcommittee, if we can be on a street corner and all three corners and yelled at each other, 00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.920 that's one thing. But if it has to be public and all, I'm just concerned about the mechanics 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:36.680 of the subcommittee, not the subcommittee itself. Right. If, and if we were to create 00:44:36.680 --> 00:44:41.560 a subcommittee, it would be subject to all applicable, like Toma issues, stuff like that. 00:44:41.560 --> 00:44:45.880 So we'd have to post it. We'd need to be open to the public, stuff like that. I think what 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:55.240 Laura was talking about related to, uh, uh, now council member Davis and, uh, who was 00:44:55.240 --> 00:45:00.680 it? Mr. Beck. Oh, Zoltner, Mr. Zoltner working on some of the initial changes is that there 00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:05.160 wasn't ever an actual subcommittee. They just took it upon their themselves in their own time 00:45:05.160 --> 00:45:09.240 to pull that together and then present it to the board to try to narrow down some of the issues. 00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:13.720 I don't think an actual subcommittee was created back then, but if we create a subcommittee to do 00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:19.000 this, it would, we would need to follow all the applicable Toma rules. And I would imagine 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:24.760 right now it would have to be on zoom. I kind of don't want three of you getting together because 00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:33.960 of, uh, the skyrocketing cases of coronavirus and our County and our state. Um, okay. So 00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:40.360 Annette, I'm sorry. Let's recognize Annette. Uh, go ahead. I would like to suggest that we have, 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:45.800 we schedule a meeting for July 30th and we may just have one agenda item and that is to 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:52.680 decide if we want to have a subcommittee. And by then we can work out whatever the, 00:45:53.560 --> 00:46:02.920 whatever we need to do to, to follow OMG. Um, just a kind of a general subcommittee to work on 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:10.520 whatever needs to be changed or just on conflict of interest or whatever. I mean, 00:46:10.520 --> 00:46:14.280 I think that should also, what does the subcommittee work on? That's fine. 00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:23.000 Um, okay. This is going to sound funny, but have the subcommittee decide on what the subcommittee 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.400 is working on or have the meeting and decide the subcommittee and whether or not we have 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:36.920 a subcommittee and what is their charge. Um, anyone else have thoughts they want to share? 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:47.320 Deborah. Well, it's part of the discussion. Um, we could also discuss whether or not we need 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:54.120 additional subcommittees to look at different topics. So, uh, and there may be some cross, um, 00:46:54.120 --> 00:47:00.680 membership of that, but I noticed the lobbying, uh, section of the code of ethics has never 00:47:00.680 --> 00:47:03.880 been addressed. Is that something that we would want to look at? 00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:15.800 Um, Rob. Uh, before we get into too many specifics on how to make subcommittees, 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:21.720 we have in such, I think first of all, let's get the basic guidelines for a subcommittee. 00:47:21.720 --> 00:47:26.840 And I think that can be done next month. I agree with them either there, uh, but not specifically 00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:33.960 pigeonhole it for, uh, whatever issue we want. Let's first find out what it takes to have that 00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:40.760 subcommittee, uh, the time committed, the resources committed. Cause that I think is the first step 00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:50.360 before we start doing anything else in my, my thought process. Um, and I guess this might be 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:57.080 a question for either Madison or Trey. So if, if next month we decided to create a subcommittee, 00:47:57.080 --> 00:48:01.720 um, I guess we would just post an agenda that we create a subcommittee that and that subcommittee, 00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:04.440 um, what else would we need to do? 00:48:07.240 --> 00:48:11.160 Well, we would, we would post it for, you know, discuss, deliberate and 00:48:11.160 --> 00:48:15.000 take potential action regarding the creation of a subcommittee and the charge there for. 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.960 And so that would specifically, you'd come up with the charge of what that committee would do. 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:25.480 Okay. And I guess what that would look like is we would at that meeting, we'd also 00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:30.600 say who's on the subcommittee and then they would go and meet and they'd have to have a separate, 00:48:30.600 --> 00:48:35.080 uh, you know, posting of their meeting. Right. For them to meet, they would need a separate posting. 00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:40.280 Okay. And it'd be through zoom. So I guess as Madison say, we're looking at, 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.400 it would probably be another month until that subcommittee can meet. 00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:47.960 It wouldn't have to be another month. We would just, you know, have to set it up when 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:52.200 everybody's available to work everything out and then give at least 72 hours notice. 00:48:52.200 --> 00:49:00.280 Okay. Yeah. So, and thinking about it, what I may recommend is that two, actually two agenda items, 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:03.720 one would be the creation of the subcommittee, and then the two would be considered nominations 00:49:03.720 --> 00:49:11.800 and appointments to that subcommittee. Um, is that, uh, something that everybody wants to do 00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:19.720 for next meeting? Um, so does everybody agree they want to meet on July 30th and I'll, 00:49:19.720 --> 00:49:23.880 I'll work with Madison on getting the agenda together from what we've talked. Oh, go ahead, Don. 00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:29.720 It seems like that we're making work. We really don't even have a problem. 00:49:29.720 --> 00:49:33.960 We're talking about subcommittees when we don't even know what the subcommittee wants to do. 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:42.280 And our group, our, the whole ethics board, you know, is a subcommittee going to be three people, 00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:50.840 four people. It just doesn't seem like that it's essential for us to be able to even need 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:55.800 to do that now, not unless we have a problem. And I don't know of a problem that we have. 00:49:57.080 --> 00:50:03.640 Um, I, I think that's a good point, Don. And, um, I, I like efficiency and not wasting everybody's, 00:50:03.640 --> 00:50:08.680 well, not, I don't want to say wasting everybody's time. That, that sounds like flippant, but, um, 00:50:08.680 --> 00:50:16.520 you know, not having good use of our time and resources for us in the city. Um, so I guess, um, 00:50:16.520 --> 00:50:25.480 do you have anything else on that, Don? No. Okay. If you could mute yourself, if you wouldn't mind. 00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:32.120 Um, all right. Is there anybody else have anything they'd like to share on that issue, 00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:39.400 on that, on this matter? And I'll ask Bob to, to, to unmute if you have anything to say. 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:51.000 Okay. Um, I'm unmuted. Uh, no, I think we've talked about it enough. And, uh, I think if, 00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:57.480 uh, the attorney and, uh, you folks get together for a nice crisp agenda item, 00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:05.400 we can make some progress. Um, Madison, did you really go ahead? Yeah, sorry. Um, 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:11.000 just so that I'm clear on, on y'all's direction, are we continuing to regularly schedule meetings 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:17.400 on the last Thursday of each month, or are we just going to call special meetings at the will 00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:25.800 of the board? Um, I guess that's up to the board. Um, I guess I'd like to know from everybody. Maybe 00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:32.040 you can just show your hand and we'll ask Rob, um, do you want to continue to have, uh, regularly 00:51:32.040 --> 00:51:40.600 scheduled meetings instead of, uh, special meetings? Um, I see Annette's hand and Debra's 00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:47.640 hand and Patricia's hand. Uh, Donna, are you raising your hand? Okay. All right. So I guess 00:51:47.640 --> 00:51:53.800 that's, uh, I, I, I want it, I would prefer that we do specially called meetings. Um, and I don't 00:51:53.800 --> 00:52:01.320 see Rob's hand. So I guess he goes for special. I was a little confused. So where you're asking us, 00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:06.040 do we want to have regular meetings or are we raising our hands that we would have the special 00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:12.200 meetings? Oh, I'm sorry. Raising your hand that you want regular meetings as in meetings scheduled 00:52:12.200 --> 00:52:17.480 each month. Um, and I believe that's what Annette and Debra and Don raised their hand for. And 00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:23.240 Patricia, did you raise your hand as well? Okay. Yeah. So they raised that. Um, I would say we do 00:52:23.240 --> 00:52:28.360 specially called meetings as needed, which might be every month, but just so that we don't have a 00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:35.240 meeting every month when we don't necessarily need one. Um, so, uh, since four wanted, I'll just go 00:52:35.240 --> 00:52:42.600 ahead and, uh, uh, just go mute. Okay. And then, uh, Bob, if you have something to say, you can, 00:52:42.600 --> 00:52:48.600 I think the, uh, I think the, it's already been decided because the majority has already voted in 00:52:48.600 --> 00:52:56.200 favor. Um, okay. So Madison, yes, uh, we will continue the regularly scheduled meetings. Um, 00:52:56.200 --> 00:53:04.680 and, uh, I guess since we, since we've just voted to have the meeting for July, um, 00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:13.960 we will have the subcommittee, uh, issue, the subcommittee, um, issue on there, uh, whether we 00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:18.840 want to start one and then I guess an agenda item of, of who would be on it. If there's anything 00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:23.960 else, and of course there'll be like a minute, um, and probably the next meeting. Um, if there's 00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:30.440 anything else that somebody wants an agenda, contact me and Madison as soon as possible so we can, um, 00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:37.400 get that together. Uh, and there's one other meeting that we need to discuss on July 7th 00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:44.840 at 3pm. We're going to have, we're going to have a panel. Um, council member Meltzer has asked for 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:52.600 an advisory opinion, um, on an issue that he had, he had sent to Madison. Um, so, uh, I would say, 00:53:52.600 --> 00:53:57.400 Patricia, I'm not going to ask you to be on that panel because he, you are the one that is appointed 00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:04.200 by Meltzer. Um, nobody else on the current board has been appointed by Meltzer. So I'd like to know, 00:54:04.200 --> 00:54:09.880 um, if, if everyone knows their availability July 7th or could quickly look at their calendar, 00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:15.800 if they could say if they're available that day. Um, if you're not, if you know you're not, let us 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.960 know. Or if you need to get back to us, you can also let us know. But, um, let's see. So, 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:31.960 do you have a time? Uh, 3pm. Uh, yes, Madison? Oh, I was just pointing out that it was three. 00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:38.840 Okay. Sorry. Uh, okay. So Ronnie's not here. Um, I am available and is needed. Don Carray, 00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:45.000 do you know, uh, if you're available? Oh, I'm sorry. Let's, can we unmute Don? 00:54:50.200 --> 00:54:57.480 Uh, I think, there we go. What time would the meeting be on Tuesday the 7th? Uh, 3pm. 3pm. 00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:05.000 Yes. Would you be available? I could be available. Okay. Um, 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:12.920 all right. And Sharla's not here. And if you could mute again, Don, please. Uh, and by the way, 00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:19.400 the, the meetings we, in the past, we have had the meetings after hours. But now since we're on 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:24.840 zoom in order to have the city's, uh, IT, we, we've got to do them during business hours, 00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:30.440 which I know is not, um, you know, not always convenient when you have to work, but, um, 00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:38.680 unfortunately that's the way it is. Um, yes, Rob? I'd be available as well. Okay. Um, all right. 00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:46.920 And, um, Annetta, would you be available or not? Yes, I'd be available. Okay. Um, 00:55:49.240 --> 00:55:57.720 and Ron is not here. Uh, and Deborah, would you be available? Yes, I'd be available. 00:55:57.720 --> 00:56:06.600 And Bob on the phone, um, would you be available July 7th at 3pm? Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. 00:56:06.600 --> 00:56:14.200 All right. Um, let's see. 00:56:19.640 --> 00:56:29.720 Okay. Um, Madison has also gotten me kind of the stats of, of, of who's been on panels. Um, I, 00:56:29.720 --> 00:56:36.760 and cause I don't think the ordinance gives us as far as who, who picks the panels. It's just that 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:42.520 the chair picks the panels. And then I really procedure say that we rotate the panels. Um, 00:56:42.520 --> 00:56:47.560 and the ordinance says there has to be a, uh, you know, I think it was at least two or three 00:56:47.560 --> 00:56:52.840 attorneys on the board. And I like that for the panels to have an attorney is because some of what 00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:58.600 a panel does is interpreting, um, the ordinance, which is pretty much interpreting statutes. Uh, 00:56:58.600 --> 00:57:06.920 so based on who's been on them and who has been on them last, uh, I, I would like the panel to be, 00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:13.560 as long as everybody is still available, um, Annetta, uh, and, and actually, I guess, 00:57:13.560 --> 00:57:18.360 I don't know if this is a question for Madison or Trey. Um, does it matter if people are alternates 00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:28.040 or not, or should we try to get non-alternate first, the panels? Oh, I'm sorry, Trey, you're 00:57:28.040 --> 00:57:34.840 muted. I don't know that we've ever, um, worried about that for the panels themselves. It's just, 00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:41.080 you know, who would be available and who is so picked by the chair. Yeah, I believe that's true. 00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:46.200 Oh, and I just wanted to point out, Laura, we will have, um, special counsel at that 00:57:46.200 --> 00:57:52.920 meeting as well, just so you're aware. Okay. Right. Related to related to that comment. Um, 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:58.200 we still have a, uh, an agreement with the Borges law firm to be special counsel, um, 00:57:58.200 --> 00:58:05.800 specifically going forward. Um, we had, he has, uh, advised that we would, the, the new attorney 00:58:05.800 --> 00:58:09.640 assigned to us to help us out with stuff like this would be a, an attorney by the name of Ian 00:58:09.640 --> 00:58:17.800 Stoosloff with his law firm. It will no longer be her proud. Um, uh, Mr. Stoos, Stoosloff as the 00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:22.280 former general counsel of the Texas ethics commission. So we think it'll, he'll be a good 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:27.400 fit for the group and be helpful to advise when the city attorney's office is conflicted out. 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:35.720 Okay. Thank you very much. Um, okay. So since kind of all, since non-alternate don't matter, um, 00:58:35.720 --> 00:58:43.720 Bob, if you're available, you have not been on a panel yet. Uh, so, uh, we'll put you and I was 00:58:43.720 --> 00:58:52.200 going to nominate myself to be on that panel. So, um, July 7th, it will be myself, uh, Annetta and 00:58:52.200 --> 00:59:00.440 Bob on the panel. And, uh, we, Madison will be sending everybody the agenda and more on that. 00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:07.960 Um, is there anything else about, so the July 7th panel meeting and the July 30th, uh, 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:13.960 regular scheduled meeting, is there anything else from anyone about the discussion on future meetings? 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:18.120 And I don't see anybody raising their hand. Oh, go ahead, Rob. 00:59:18.120 --> 00:59:26.200 Just for protection sake, if when this July 7th comes, do you have provisions for an alternate 00:59:26.200 --> 00:59:30.920 to come in, in case one of you three cannot do it? Do you have to make that declaration now? 00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:38.360 Um, and I don't think we've ever done that before. I will say that Bob and Annetta is, 00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:43.720 and myself, if anything changes, please let us know because you have to have all three people there. 00:59:43.720 --> 00:59:55.640 Um, I think as long as Annetta, Bob, and myself are, um, let me and Madison know if they're not 00:59:55.640 --> 01:00:00.120 able to come, we can just switch. I think we can just switch somebody out even, you know, the day 01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:05.240 before. Well, I guess, I don't know, if it's on the agenda, I don't know. If it's on the agenda, 01:00:05.240 --> 01:00:10.280 people out. Typically, we've, I think we've listed the names of the people on the agenda. So, but I 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:19.240 mean, up to, up to 72 hours in advance. Um, could we put a alternate person on the agenda? 01:00:19.240 --> 01:00:26.280 I don't see why not. Um, all right. Well, uh, let me see here. 01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:35.000 As far as, let's see, Don's been on a lot of them. Um, 01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:43.080 I guess, uh, Rob and Deborah, like y'all both have been on a couple, when y'all have y'all, 01:00:43.080 --> 01:00:46.280 who was on the last panel? Do y'all remember or were both, was it both of you? 01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:50.120 It was both of us and she threw her shoe at me. 01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.840 I'll maybe, I'll, oh, go ahead, Madison. I actually have the answer. So the last panel 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:07.560 on August 15th of 2019 was Don Cartwright, Karen McDaniels and Rob Reiner. Okay. Um, 01:01:07.560 --> 01:01:13.240 well, I don't, I don't know. I think it had two panels that day. 01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:20.600 Oh, uh, I don't think so. Oh, but maybe, maybe was it the same panel? 01:01:22.120 --> 01:01:26.600 Like you had two, but it was the same group of people? No, we switched out because 01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:30.680 there were different people that were involved in the complaints. 01:01:30.680 --> 01:01:38.040 Sorry, one second. 01:01:38.040 --> 01:01:47.800 Uh, well, Madison's looking that up. We'll just, we'll keep the panel as myself and 01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:53.320 Edda and Bob. If, um, if there's anything changes, let me and Madison know as soon as 01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:59.720 possible. And, um, we can just change that beforehand and maybe we can confirm with 01:01:59.720 --> 01:02:03.480 everybody, uh, you know, a little bit more than 72 hours in advance to make sure 01:02:03.480 --> 01:02:08.280 and Edda, Bob and I can be there. Um, go Madison, do you have the answer? 01:02:08.280 --> 01:02:13.800 Yeah. So on, in, on August 15th, there was only one panel. There was a day when we had 01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:24.280 two panels in March of 2019, um, for two, for ethics complaints. So unless it's not 01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:32.360 in the minutes. So yes. All right. Uh, okay. If there's nothing else, um, 01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:36.600 is there anything else about future board meetings? And if Bob has anything to say, 01:02:36.600 --> 01:02:42.680 he can unmute as well since I can't see him. So raise his hand. Okay. All right. I 01:02:42.680 --> 01:02:48.040 think we've covered everything. Um, oh, do you have something to say, Bob? Is 01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:53.400 that good? I want to thank Madison for the paper. It's the best paperwork we've 01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:58.280 ever had for any of these meetings. I love Ms. Snodgrass, but you have really 01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:02.840 done a good job on this. Thank you. I would like to second that and commend 01:03:02.840 --> 01:03:06.760 Madison because she made, uh, life really easy putting the, this together 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:12.120 and the PDF she put on with the hyperlinks was really, uh, a great job. 01:03:12.120 --> 01:03:18.200 I've been, it's been a pleasure to work with her. So, um, okay. All right. Well, 01:03:18.200 --> 01:03:23.400 I guess I will adjourn the meeting and I'll see some of you July 7th 01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:29.240 and everybody July 30th. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.