WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.960 Okay, good afternoon, everybody. 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.720 Welcome to our June 8th meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission. 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:21.480 We're doing this, the first time ever, sort of Zoom one person live, and I'm sure we'll 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:24.320 have some bugs, but we'll work our way through it. 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.000 The first thing I'm going to note is we do have a quorum of six commissioners present 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:30.000 at the moment. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.560 I see Lenny waving hello. 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:39.600 And we can't, we don't have audio on Lenny at the moment. 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:45.000 So we'll work something out as we go through. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:50.800 The first thing that we will do is do the Pledge Allegiance to the U.S. flag. 00:00:50.800 --> 00:01:02.460 So I suppose, hand over heart, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:13.360 and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty 00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:17.480 and justice for all. 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:27.440 And likewise, the Texas flag, honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, one state 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:33.120 under God, one indivisible. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.920 Okay now, a couple of housekeeping matters I think I want to get through first. 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:43.480 It will help if you, when you're not speaking, if you'll mute yourself, and I'll try not 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:48.320 to, and we're going to have to do the votes by roll call by name. 00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:51.440 So we'll work our way through that. 00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:59.360 We have three items, really four items on our agenda, three actual projects, and then 00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:01.480 the minutes from last time. 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:19.240 Now, I will ask everybody, does anybody not get the email for the minutes? 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:25.520 Okay then we need a motion to approve it, or a motion to postpone the approval of the 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:30.480 minutes, because we can certainly take care of this our next time. 00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:37.640 Chair, if I can interject, the minutes were included with the packet that went out? 00:02:37.640 --> 00:02:41.600 I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. 00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:42.600 And I'll second. 00:02:42.600 --> 00:02:43.600 Oh good. 00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:44.600 Lenny, we have you now. 00:02:44.600 --> 00:02:47.480 We have a motion and a second. 00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:52.280 And I'll do a roll call if you're in favor of approving the minutes. 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:53.920 Let's go with Angie. 00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:54.920 Yes. 00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:55.920 Janelle? 00:02:55.920 --> 00:02:56.920 Yes. 00:02:56.920 --> 00:02:57.920 Mary? 00:02:57.920 --> 00:02:58.920 Yes. 00:02:58.920 --> 00:02:59.920 Lenny? 00:02:59.920 --> 00:03:00.920 Yes. 00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:01.920 Melody? 00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:02.920 Yes. 00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:08.760 And I think we have Evan via cell phone, right? 00:03:08.760 --> 00:03:10.080 We may have lost Evan. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.080 Okay. 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:12.080 Okay. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:17.080 Any opposed? 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:22.240 Hearing none, we'll record an approval at five to zero. 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.800 Thank you, everybody. 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:34.000 Our first topic, Chair, if I can interject, I believe there are seven members. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.000 Okay. 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:39.520 One, two, three, four, five, six, oh, seven members. 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:40.520 Yes. 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:41.520 Sorry, I missed somebody. 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:42.520 Melody. 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:43.520 Yeah, I think I got you. 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:44.520 All right. 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:51.620 Evan, I believe is on the line, but I'm not sure what his vote was on the minutes. 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:53.040 I'm hearing and I said yes. 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:54.040 Can you hear me? 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:55.040 Yes. 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:56.040 Okay. 00:03:56.040 --> 00:03:57.040 We heard you. 00:03:57.040 --> 00:03:58.040 Got it. 00:03:58.040 --> 00:03:59.040 Okay. 00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:03.160 And listen, bear with us because new thing for all of us and we'll work our way through 00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:05.360 this. 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:15.200 The item for consideration, the second item on our agenda is COA 20-0006, to hold a public 00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:20.240 hearing and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:27.440 with section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development Code to replace existing windows on a house 00:04:27.440 --> 00:04:34.440 located at 921 West Oak Street within the Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:40.320 The site is located on Oak Street between Welch and Denton Street. 00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:44.600 I think the presentation will be done by Ron. 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:46.800 Yes, Chair. 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.840 Thank you. 00:04:48.840 --> 00:04:54.000 We did receive two white cards, virtual white cards for this item. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:59.360 We will have it for our records, but we will not read out the comments. 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:05.680 There was no direct opposition related to the item for consideration. 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.440 So with that, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation, if we can get the presentation 00:05:11.440 --> 00:05:12.440 on. 00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:13.440 Great. 00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:32.560 Monica, if you make it full screen for the ... Great, so as introduced in the introduction, 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:42.800 this is a COA request for a project to replace existing windows on an existing home that's 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:50.200 located in the Oak Hickory Historic District, specifically 921 West Oak Street. 00:05:50.200 --> 00:05:52.840 Next slide. 00:05:52.840 --> 00:05:54.560 This is a close-up view of the home. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:02.040 It is just to illustrate that the owner of the home is Willie Alcala, and it is a single-story 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:09.240 home, again, within the Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:16.320 This is a view of the front taken from Oak Street, and I want to direct your attention 00:06:16.320 --> 00:06:19.080 to the windows that are shown here. 00:06:19.080 --> 00:06:25.720 Again, these are existing windows, and you can see from the details, there are four panes 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:32.280 on the top part and a large pane on the bottom of each window. 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:34.120 Next slide. 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:43.840 What the applicant is proposing to do is match the exact architectural detail of the windows. 00:06:43.840 --> 00:06:51.460 They are proposing to replace 17 total windows covering the entire home, and again, as you 00:06:51.460 --> 00:06:58.320 can tell from the existing window details, what is being proposed as part of the replacement 00:06:58.320 --> 00:07:01.240 is very similar. 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:03.280 Next slide. 00:07:03.280 --> 00:07:11.560 What we look at when reviewing a COA application are architectural requirements, and what I've 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:18.760 listed here are all of the specific requirements as it relates to windows. 00:07:18.760 --> 00:07:21.320 Is it compatible in scale? 00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:23.400 Is it proportionally balanced? 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:30.240 Does the size and the proportion, is it consistent with the style and period of the building? 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:36.360 Does the trim match in the manner, the style? 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:41.400 And again, it's consistent with the typical style of the home. 00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:48.760 And based on the staff's analysis, next slide, the staff is recommending approval of the 00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:55.880 request to replace the existing windows with the applicant's proposal. 00:07:55.880 --> 00:08:03.120 With that, that ends my presentation, and I believe we have hopefully members of the 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:07.440 applicant's team available if you all have any questions. 00:08:07.440 --> 00:08:14.120 Okay, so let's try it this way. 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:20.240 If you have questions, just chime in, or I can call it by everybody by name. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.040 In fact, maybe we should do that, Angie? 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.640 There's a raise hand feature, by the way, built into Zoom. 00:08:27.640 --> 00:08:29.260 It's not on my version today. 00:08:29.260 --> 00:08:31.280 I don't know why. 00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:33.720 It's not there. 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.760 Or you can also, I can probably see it if you raise your hand, because we certainly 00:08:37.760 --> 00:08:45.560 want to make sure everyone has, is not cut off in their questions or their discussion. 00:08:45.560 --> 00:08:50.880 So just wave at me and we'll roll it. 00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:53.840 Okay, Mary, if you want to start off. 00:08:53.840 --> 00:09:00.080 Well, I live right across the street or one house over, so I see this house quite a bit. 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:06.320 I'm glad the applicant has made the windows look similar, but I'm disappointed at the 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.880 material choice. 00:09:08.880 --> 00:09:10.680 Aluminum is not the world's greatest thing. 00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:15.480 In fact, usually they don't hold up as well, as far as I can see from having seen a lot 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:17.520 of historic houses. 00:09:17.520 --> 00:09:22.760 And typically, at least in the recent past, we required replacement with similar materials, 00:09:22.760 --> 00:09:25.500 which in this case would likely be wood. 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:27.600 Is that any, is that change, Jerome? 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.520 I thought we had to have similar replacement materials. 00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:33.160 No, you're absolutely correct. 00:09:33.160 --> 00:09:38.960 My understanding is that the material that is to be used will be wood. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:47.000 And we do have a Tom Herman, who is the contractor on the line, and maybe he can elaborate on 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:48.800 the material that is being proposed. 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:52.120 I thought you said they were aluminum, but that's why I'm confused when you read. 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:53.120 Did I misunderstand? 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:54.120 Yes. 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:55.120 Can you hear me? 00:09:55.120 --> 00:10:06.080 Tom, can you elaborate on the materials that are proposed for the windows? 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.560 Can you hear me now? 00:10:07.560 --> 00:10:08.560 Yes. 00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:09.560 Hello. 00:10:09.560 --> 00:10:10.560 Okay. 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:13.640 Yeah, this is an aluminum clad wood window. 00:10:13.640 --> 00:10:20.040 So it's a wood window with just a aluminum clad exterior to keep them from rotting. 00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:24.200 And from what I could tell, looking at some others there in that neighborhood, there are 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:29.220 several others there that have that same aluminum clad wood. 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:31.040 So it is a solid wood window. 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:38.440 It will have the same light pattern on the top and then a solid glass on the bottom. 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:49.640 Matter of fact, this is the 366 glass, which has a 0.21 solar heat gain spec to it. 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:54.680 So it is far better than the 0.31 that is required. 00:10:54.680 --> 00:11:01.560 Well, my concern is that aluminum clad wood is not the same as wood. 00:11:01.560 --> 00:11:04.440 And I am not sure. 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:07.640 I live in a 100 plus year old house, Mr. Herman. 00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:09.440 My house has windows that are wood. 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.580 And guess what? 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:13.800 They're just fine and they have not rotted. 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:17.200 So I think that there's a misnomer that that's an advantage that they would rot. 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:20.040 I can assure you my house is at least 102 years old. 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:21.840 It could be 106. 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.800 The same windows have been here for that many years. 00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:25.800 They have faced all the elements. 00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:28.760 If you paint them occasionally, we haven't painted them in 16 years and they're really 00:11:28.760 --> 00:11:29.800 just good. 00:11:29.800 --> 00:11:36.740 So I don't see why we can't have the real wood exterior as opposed to aluminum clad wood. 00:11:36.740 --> 00:11:37.740 You paint them. 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:39.160 They handle it just fine. 00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:42.680 And there's no traditional. 00:11:42.680 --> 00:11:46.640 Yeah, we can do them in all wood. 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:51.120 I mean, street face, I don't care what you do in the back, but street face should be 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.120 wood. 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:53.120 Yeah. 00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.120 Janelle, I think. 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.120 They can be all wood. 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:56.120 Okay. 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:03.080 I was just going to make a comment that the aluminum cladding, it appears to be wood or 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:04.080 paint. 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:10.840 I mean, I think it's a pretty common newer technology in windows that it's not like an 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:11.920 aluminum window. 00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:16.520 It's actually a more expensive product than your straightforward wood window. 00:12:16.520 --> 00:12:25.000 And the aluminum cladding, it's powder coated with a white or whatever color is chosen to 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:26.000 match the house. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.080 So they don't look like aluminum windows. 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:32.880 It looks like a wood window visually. 00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:38.000 So I was just going to put that in there that that's actually, you know, usually in higher 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:44.580 end homes, that is just, you know, like a better product that they are using today. 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:46.040 So it's not a cheaper version. 00:12:46.040 --> 00:12:50.320 I was just going to let you know that it's, you know, that's actually it's not a factor 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:51.320 for me. 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:55.280 The factor is, as I am a neighborhood person here on the committee and the rules are that 00:12:55.280 --> 00:13:01.640 you replace like with like, if it faces anything that looks out onto the street, if it doesn't 00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:03.580 face the street, you can't see it from the street. 00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:11.360 Most people don't mind that whatever you want to put on the back, but it's kind of a brick, 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.400 you know, pulling out the foundation pretty soon. 00:13:13.400 --> 00:13:16.360 We're just going to go all aluminum everywhere. 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:17.360 And yes, it would be nice. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:18.600 I'd like aluminum siding on my house. 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.800 I don't have to spend a fortune painting it. 00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:24.720 But you take away from the character of the history. 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:29.440 And I just I like the they match the windows and this house isn't as old as my house. 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:35.800 I'll admit, but it has a history and it should, it's since they're mostly covered, as I recall 00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:42.840 from your picture, Ron, that they're unlikely to have that much damage if my windows, which 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.120 are covered and plenty of them that aren't covered have not rotted. 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.240 I don't think that's a major problem in today's modern age. 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:51.240 Okay. 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:55.680 So this is a question for we'll have plenty of opportunity, I think in a minute to discuss 00:13:55.680 --> 00:14:02.440 it. But let's try and questions for Ron or Mr. Herman, I believe. 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:03.440 Anyone else? 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:08.400 Chair, I've got a question for the applicant to help our discussion. 00:14:08.400 --> 00:14:14.040 Tom, can you talk about how many windows are facing Oak Street? 00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:17.640 I thought I saw four. 00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:27.080 Yeah, there's a triple window and then one other window that faces the front, if I recall 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:28.080 correctly. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.120 Okay, I just want to make that a point for the commission. 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:33.880 As we get into our discussions. 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:34.880 Okay. 00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:39.520 Do we have any other questions from commission members? 00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:44.080 All right, and Angie. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.760 Oh, Angie, sorry, got you. 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:48.760 That's okay. 00:14:48.760 --> 00:14:53.240 So I see the triple window in the front, I'm looking at the photo that was sent in our 00:14:53.240 --> 00:15:00.520 materials and the porch, it looks like it is a double window or if it's two single windows 00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:01.520 on the porch. 00:15:01.520 --> 00:15:02.520 Okay. 00:15:02.520 --> 00:15:03.520 Yeah. 00:15:03.520 --> 00:15:07.480 So that yeah, that probably was a double on the porch and then a triple on the right hand 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:08.480 side. 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:09.480 Five. 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:10.480 Okay. 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:11.480 Thank you. 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:12.480 Yeah. 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:19.760 Okay, anyone else with questions for Mr. Herman or Ron? 00:15:19.760 --> 00:15:24.800 Okay, well, thank you guys for the presentation. 00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:33.160 For the commissioners, as usual, we have four possible options. 00:15:33.160 --> 00:15:38.560 We can approve as submitted, we can approve subject to conditions, we can deny or continue 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:39.840 the item. 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.840 Before we enter discussion, we would need a motion and a second and I'll open the floor. 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:45.840 Mary? 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:52.880 Well, I would, I suppose I missed out, I wanted to know whether or not it was just for the 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:57.520 front windows he was asking about, but I missed that. 00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:03.400 I would only approve this if they are, I would make a motion that we only approve this under 00:16:03.400 --> 00:16:08.560 the conditions that the exterior facing the street is wood. 00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:10.960 I would second that. 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:11.960 Okay. 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:17.600 So we have a motion and a second that would be to approve subject to condition, the condition 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:25.680 being that the Oak Street facing windows not be aluminum clad, but rather wood in their 00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:26.680 entirety. 00:16:26.680 --> 00:16:27.680 All right. 00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:29.920 I understand the motion. 00:16:29.920 --> 00:16:33.760 So we have a motion and a second discussion. 00:16:33.760 --> 00:16:36.680 How about we try the waving again? 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:37.880 Lenny? 00:16:37.880 --> 00:16:42.680 I want to know exactly what our ordinance says about the windows. 00:16:42.680 --> 00:16:47.800 Okay, Ron, you want to take that one? 00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:48.800 Sure. 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:52.360 Included in the backup, I provided a list. 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:58.720 It has windows and doors as a section for the architectural standards for the Oak Hickory 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:06.320 Historic District, specifically for style, it states all windows and doors in the front 00:17:06.320 --> 00:17:11.480 facade of the main building must be proportionally balanced. 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:19.080 The size and proportion of the windows located on the front and sides of the main building 00:17:19.080 --> 00:17:24.280 must be typical of the style and period of the main building. 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:30.600 And I believe the last one here, it says that the frames of the windows must be trimmed 00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:36.600 in a manner typical of a style and period of the building. 00:17:36.600 --> 00:17:44.720 That is the majority of what's discussed under windows in the Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:55.440 So it doesn't require that they be wood, clear wood, rather than aluminum clad wood. 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:02.440 It doesn't go, we don't have a materials per se, however, what I believe it implies is 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:11.280 that the windows are as consistent in the style and period of the building. 00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:12.280 Okay. 00:18:12.280 --> 00:18:13.280 Melody? 00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:14.280 Oh, sorry. 00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:17.280 Melody, you had your hand up. 00:18:17.280 --> 00:18:25.240 Can I make a comment, this is, oh, okay, all right. 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:35.320 We just had our windows replaced with the aluminum wrapped wood and they look like wood. 00:18:35.320 --> 00:18:40.280 It has a texture on the outside that looks like wood. 00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:45.600 Is that the case with these particular windows? 00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:50.800 If we can have, I believe Tom answered yes. 00:18:50.800 --> 00:18:55.840 Yes, and matter of fact, the frame of the window does not change. 00:18:55.840 --> 00:19:02.240 The only thing that's changing is we take out the stops inside the sides and we put 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.120 in a new sash on the top and the bottom. 00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:09.840 The outside frame of the window and all the molding and everything that's currently there 00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:11.360 stays exactly the same. 00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:13.680 It is still the real wood. 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:21.880 The only thing is the sash itself has the aluminum cladding on it, which keeps it working 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.000 properly and from rotting. 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:32.920 This is almost 99% of the windows we replace in Highland Park is this aluminum clad for 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:35.680 that same reason. 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:40.600 Okay, thank you. 00:19:40.600 --> 00:19:43.120 I'd like to point out, if I could at this point. 00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:49.760 I took a few minutes to review the Department of the Interior standards for which are not 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:55.160 specifically referenced and these are simply guidelines that they give us for historic 00:19:55.160 --> 00:20:02.600 preservation and in that particular document, which is on the National Park Service website, 00:20:02.600 --> 00:20:06.920 it indicates that when historic windows exist, they should be repaired when possible. 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:12.280 When they are too deteriorated to repair, the selection of replacement windows must 00:20:12.280 --> 00:20:20.000 be guided by standard six and I won't read every bit of it, but using the hierarchy or 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.600 the building's feature take into account the windows visibility, some general guidance 00:20:24.600 --> 00:20:25.840 can be drawn. 00:20:25.840 --> 00:20:31.080 One, the replacement of windows on the primary street facing or highly visible elevation 00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:37.200 to the building of three stories or less must match the historic windows in all detail and 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.200 material. 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:45.720 Now, I point out that those are not standards directly adopted, but I think Mary, when you 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.000 were commenting before, you know, we are reminded that these are sort of the gold standard for 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:53.000 that. 00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:04.640 So, with that, I'll let the discussion -- oh, who does -- oh, Angie, yes, ma'am, go ahead. 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:12.480 So back -- I don't know if you recall, Roy, and when we had -- people come to this commission 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:18.200 and they spoke to us about preservation and about preservation with historic structures 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.200 and one of the key things that they mentioned were windows. 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:28.000 And so with what you just read, too, I was under the impression we were only allowing 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:33.300 replacement of windows if they were broken and not really coming into a whole structure 00:21:33.300 --> 00:21:35.080 and replacing windows. 00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:41.920 However, with that said, I think we have to look at not what it looks like. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.200 We don't have to -- cost is not an issue to this commission at all, but we have to go 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:53.440 with preservation and what is going to be preservation for our historic structures. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.360 And with that, that is with the real wood. 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:04.480 And that is why I seconded the motion, is because I do feel like we have to really adhere 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.320 to preservation. 00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:12.680 And with the preservation, windows are huge with that, and that's what I'm going to stand 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:13.680 with. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:14.680 >> Okay. 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.160 I have a question for Angie. 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:24.040 Talking to me about the windows on the Oak Street-facing facade versus perhaps the rear 00:22:24.040 --> 00:22:28.200 of the home, do you draw a distinction there at all? 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:32.080 >> Actually I would prefer they all stay wood. 00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:33.800 >> Okay. 00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:36.320 >> Everyone for preservation. 00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:40.920 >> That's my preference, but -- >> That would be my preference as well. 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:46.920 >> I'm settling on the front-facing look to it. 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:47.920 >> Okay. 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:53.600 Now, I believe the motion was to approve with modifications at the front-facing windows 00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:55.560 to be wood. 00:22:55.560 --> 00:22:56.560 Is that correct? 00:22:56.560 --> 00:22:57.560 That's your motion, Mary? 00:22:57.560 --> 00:23:03.600 >> That was my motion, although Angie actually brought up an important point about -- or 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:07.320 actually made it with you when you were reading it, Roy, that perhaps they should be repaired 00:23:07.320 --> 00:23:08.800 as opposed to replaced. 00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:15.400 I thought that was what you -- I understood historic preservation, or did I miss it? 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:16.640 >> You're correct. 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:21.200 But it's sort of up to the homeowner to make the decision if they feel like the windows 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:27.760 that are there are repairable, restorable correctly, or if they need to be replaced. 00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:32.000 But -- >> Well, actually I'm not sure that it is 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:33.360 up to the homeowner, by the way. 00:23:33.360 --> 00:23:38.040 I think it's up to us to decide based on the information we're given. 00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:43.680 That said, I can understand wanting to replace windows. 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:49.720 I still think that at least front-facing, street-facing items should abide by historic 00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:51.400 preservation. 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.560 One of the items -- and this is an aside that I wanted our previous historic preservation 00:23:55.560 --> 00:24:01.400 officer to deal with -- is to make sure every new owner coming into a historic home knew 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:07.480 the requirements by the time they bought it, or perhaps while they were looking at it. 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:14.200 I don't know if Mr. Acala has gotten those, if anybody has notified him of that. 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:16.600 But I think the rules are there. 00:24:16.600 --> 00:24:20.480 I mean, why are we here if we're not going to preserve? 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:26.520 And make that attempt to preserve history of homes. 00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:30.720 We have so few historic homes left in this town, they keep getting knocked down. 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:34.480 >> Angie, I see your hand up. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.480 >> I do. 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:36.480 I have a question for Ron. 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:42.560 So, Ron, when you were reading our guidelines, to me it sounded like those guidelines were 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:45.760 for new construction maybe coming in. 00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:53.320 And so I wonder, is there a difference between new construction versus preserving an existing 00:24:53.320 --> 00:24:54.320 structure? 00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:55.320 >> No, ma'am. 00:24:55.320 --> 00:25:01.160 The only architectural standards I have are listed all at one location, and there's no 00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:05.240 differentiation between new construction and restoration. 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:10.160 Although there are different sections that talks about new construction and additions, 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:17.480 overall, the windows and doors specifically applies to both. 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.160 >> Thank you. 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.000 >> Okay. 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.040 Anyone else have any comments? 00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:28.560 Okay. 00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:34.640 The motion on the floor is, marries, as it stands now, with the second, that we approve 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.040 subject to conditions. 00:25:36.040 --> 00:25:44.240 That condition at the moment is that the oak street facing windows be replaced with solid 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:46.480 wood windows. 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:51.320 I suppose at this point we are going to call a vote. 00:25:51.320 --> 00:25:58.240 So those in favor of the motion, how about you raise your hand and I'll record them. 00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:59.800 All right. 00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:02.520 So we've got Mary. 00:26:02.520 --> 00:26:05.720 We have Melody. 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.520 We have Lenny. 00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:11.520 Angie. 00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:14.920 And Janelle. 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:15.920 And who? 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:16.920 >> Evan. 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:17.920 Evan's on the line. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.320 >> And Evan, are you -- what's your vote? 00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:25.320 >> I just raised my hand digitally through the app. 00:26:25.320 --> 00:26:26.320 >> Okay. 00:26:26.320 --> 00:26:29.440 Then Roy likewise votes affirmatively. 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:34.320 So are there any opposition? 00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:52.720 Hearing and seeing no waiving, then item number -- pardon me -- COA 20-0006 is approved with 00:26:52.720 --> 00:27:00.920 subject to conditions, a condition being that the oak street facing windows be wood. 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:01.920 Thanks everybody. 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:09.920 If there are any other questions or comments, we'll move to our next agenda item. 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:33.160 Okay. 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.240 Let me take about a 10-second recess. 00:27:35.240 --> 00:28:02.960 I'll be right back. 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:03.960 Pardon me for that. 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:10.040 Just reminded that if you're participating via cell phone or any phone, we don't hear 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:11.760 you in real time. 00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:17.240 And so I'll try and be real slow between agenda items. 00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:23.640 Don't not be heard. 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:28.720 The next item on our agenda is similar. 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:35.880 And COA 20-0007, hold a public hearing and consider an application for certificate of 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:43.360 appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the development code to replace existing 00:28:43.360 --> 00:28:51.060 windows on a building located at 221 North Elm Street, a designated local historic landmark. 00:28:51.060 --> 00:28:56.200 The site is located on the southwest corner of Elm and McKinney Street. 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:59.960 I believe that Ron is going to make a presentation. 00:28:59.960 --> 00:29:02.240 Thank you, Chair. 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.600 The presentation fold up and I'll make my presentation. 00:29:06.600 --> 00:29:11.920 One second. 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:37.520 Okay. 00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:39.520 Can you go to the full screen? 00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:49.080 COA 20-0007, hold a public hearing and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness. 00:29:49.080 --> 00:29:53.080 Bear with us. 00:29:53.080 --> 00:30:01.380 If you go to the bottom, Monica, further to the right. 00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:07.160 Nope, one over, one more. 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.420 Keep going to the right. 00:30:11.420 --> 00:30:13.800 Thank you. 00:30:13.800 --> 00:30:14.800 Good evening. 00:30:14.800 --> 00:30:23.200 This is a COA application for 221 North Elm, also referred to as City Hall West. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.320 This application is for the restoration of the windows. 00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:31.740 We'll have slides specifically to what is being proposed. 00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:42.400 This way of background, this was a building that was designated as a historic landmark, 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:48.880 local historic landmark, that is, in 1982, adopted by ordinance 8269. 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:58.400 Very recently, in November of 2018, there was a city council subcommittee created to 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:04.900 discuss the use of the building and also the repair of the building. 00:31:04.900 --> 00:31:11.280 Out of that subcommittee, or steering committee, that is, there was a recommendation to restore 00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:18.920 the windows on, again, November 13th, 2018, the city council during a work session directed 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:28.080 staff to move forward with the restoration of those buildings and associated work. 00:31:28.080 --> 00:31:29.360 Next slide. 00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:35.240 The next few slides is to illustrate the building as it is today. 00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:40.420 As you can see, this is the east view, the front of the building. 00:31:40.420 --> 00:31:47.080 This is the west view showing the building on, I'm sorry, the north view, showing the 00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:51.400 north side of the building. 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:56.440 This is to show the windows that are facing west. 00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:05.360 And the last is the south view showing the six windows that are facing south. 00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:12.440 So what is being proposed, and I'm not going to read the entire list here, was included 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:21.160 in the backup, the proposal or request is to replace all existing exterior windows, 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:27.760 including the associated brick mold, accessories, et cetera. 00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:35.480 There are also work to clean up some of the cast stone seals. 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:42.880 Also have additional glazing assigned to those individual windows, and to remove any suspended 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:49.960 acoustical tile and grid as required to perform the work related to the replacement or restoration 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:51.960 of the windows. 00:32:51.960 --> 00:33:01.240 What you see here are four types of windows, and they're very similar to what was there 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:02.240 historically. 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.800 So if we can go to the next slide. 00:33:06.800 --> 00:33:14.960 The front door you see here in the transom area will not be associated with any work. 00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.160 There is no work proposed. 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:25.520 However, the windows all around the building will be replaced with, again, the types of 00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:28.280 windows as you see here. 00:33:28.280 --> 00:33:35.760 The first, the two that you see in front of you is type F, and the type that will be replaced 00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:40.080 is shown in the graphic to the right. 00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:41.880 Next slide. 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:49.040 Similarly, the building to the north, you see that there is a little bit more elaborate 00:33:49.040 --> 00:33:50.880 window types. 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:59.920 There is a type D and a type E, and what is being proposed is that they be replaced with 00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:10.040 the architectural proposal details that you see in the type D and type E drawings to provide 00:34:10.040 --> 00:34:11.760 a little bit more reference. 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:22.880 If you look at the existing photo to the left, you see that the buildings will have, have 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:31.120 been removed and replaced with some existing building or existing windows that are not 00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:38.520 consistent with what was there historically, and so what the proposal is to bring back 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:43.640 those historic windows as you see in the drawings. 00:34:43.640 --> 00:34:45.960 Next slide. 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:52.600 Using the Secretary of Interior Standards of, I'm sorry, for the treatment of historic 00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:59.960 properties, since this is not part of any historic district, but rather a local landmark 00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:09.800 as well as a state landmark, we use the following standards in our evaluation or analysis. 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:17.480 Going through the standards, preservation for rehabilitation, restoration, reconstruction, 00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:26.600 the proposal meets the intent, and again, what the city is trying to do is match the 00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:32.120 windows that were there historically and that is what is being proposed. 00:35:32.120 --> 00:35:33.880 Next slide. 00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:41.980 For that reason, the staff is recommending approval of this COA and I'll stand for questions. 00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:50.840 We do have members of the facility staff who's managing this project as well as the architect 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:57.120 that has been given the assignment to work on this project. 00:35:57.120 --> 00:36:03.440 Okay, at this point, Angie, go ahead. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:05.800 I have a question, Ron. 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:06.800 Yes ma'am. 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.280 Just a little confusion if you can help me out. 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:16.320 When you had on there, I think a type E and a type F, I got confused with that. 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.280 So are they, they're wanting to replace them for what they were originally. 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:25.760 I appreciate that, but I'm not clear on are they all going to look that way. 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.280 I just got confused with the E, F and those things. 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:34.840 I think I understand what you're saying because when I was looking at this as I was reviewing 00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:43.700 it, I believe the historic reference photo that they show just illustrates what was there. 00:36:43.700 --> 00:36:52.200 If I can have Alexis McKinney explain what will be replaced and what type will be used, 00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:54.120 I think that will be helpful for the commission. 00:36:54.120 --> 00:36:58.680 Can you bring up those images again for everyone because that's where I'm confused. 00:36:58.680 --> 00:36:59.680 Okay. 00:36:59.680 --> 00:37:05.760 So Monica, if you can go to the slide that had the historic reference. 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:11.880 Or for my commissioners here, is anyone else confused? 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:12.880 Is it just me? 00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:17.440 No, it's not you because I thought the first slide, the numbering was wrong on the windows 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.280 to the window to the frame. 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:32.120 I thought the D and the F was not supposed to be there, but someplace else, I think. 00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:35.040 If we could bring those slides back up, I think that might. 00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:39.640 We're working on it right now. 00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:44.960 While we're working on it, Alexis, are you on the line? 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:45.960 Yes. 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.500 Yes, I'm here. 00:37:47.500 --> 00:37:56.520 If you can, as we try to get the slides up, if you can just give us how those types are 00:37:56.520 --> 00:38:02.840 going to be applied to, I won't say each of the window, but generally on City Hall West. 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:03.840 Sure. 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.720 So those are window types. 00:38:06.720 --> 00:38:13.760 So those are, they are different arrangements that were on the original building. 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:18.960 That historic photo, if you have access to it, I think they're trying to pull it up is 00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:25.040 a great example because there are two types that are along the former auditorium. 00:38:25.040 --> 00:38:27.160 This is the north wall. 00:38:27.160 --> 00:38:36.680 So one was a pair of two double hung windows set within a cast stone half round top. 00:38:36.680 --> 00:38:44.040 And then there's another type, which I think was type D, that has a glazed transom. 00:38:44.040 --> 00:38:48.680 So there's only three window types on this building. 00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:56.200 The F type is represented almost everywhere else as a double hung window. 00:38:56.200 --> 00:39:03.620 So the windows that you see currently on the building are solid wood manufactured from 00:39:03.620 --> 00:39:04.920 the 1980s. 00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:10.360 And they are the, at least the second round of non-original windows on the building and 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.120 maybe the third. 00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:25.320 So if you can go to slide four, Monica, right here, if you stay here. 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:32.760 So Alexis, if you can explain what type will be applied to these windows. 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.420 I know we know the type F, the more rectangular shape, the single rectangular, that will be 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:39.680 used for those. 00:39:39.680 --> 00:39:49.240 But the four that are facing due north, what type will they be for each one of those? 00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:52.400 They will return to their original arrangement. 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.380 So type D, there are three on the north wall. 00:39:56.380 --> 00:40:01.420 There is one type E that's set within the cast stone. 00:40:01.420 --> 00:40:05.880 And then the type G is in a non-original wall. 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:12.960 So we're replicating the shape, if you will, but not the detailing. 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:19.840 So what you're seeing in this photo, sorry, the video is about a minute behind the call. 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:24.160 So I'm struggling for a little bit. 00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:29.720 On the image that I'm currently seeing of the existing building on that north elevation, 00:40:29.720 --> 00:40:37.840 the window to the far right is the type E. And so that is a cast stone panel below the 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.440 sill and a cast stone half rounded head. 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:46.760 We will just be replacing the windows between the two. 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:53.000 And the three windows that you see to the left of that are the type D. And those originally 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:54.560 had glazed transom. 00:40:54.560 --> 00:41:01.480 So we are going to put back the glazed transom and then the window below, which was not two 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:08.680 double hung windows, but was one very large, wide double hung window that will be going 00:41:08.680 --> 00:41:09.680 there. 00:41:09.680 --> 00:41:14.800 Right now, there's a bit of a struggle because there is a floor addition that's in the building. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:21.160 And so we will be temporarily covering the back of the glazed transom so that you don't 00:41:21.160 --> 00:41:26.760 see that until that later addition is removed from the interior. 00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:34.680 And the type G, which is a non-original, it's a part of an elevator that was added, is there 00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:35.980 to the far left. 00:41:35.980 --> 00:41:40.960 So that's in a completely different opening that's plaster. 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:47.320 But we'll be replacing that window as well because it is also severely deteriorated. 00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:50.280 Can we see the original from that historic photo? 00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:51.280 Can you go to that slide? 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:54.400 Can you go down a couple of slides, please? 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.520 A couple more. 00:41:57.520 --> 00:42:00.240 One more. 00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:02.640 There we go. 00:42:02.640 --> 00:42:04.320 That one. 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:09.400 I understand what you're saying, Angie, I was looking at this, the masonry is actually 00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:13.160 on the opposite end versus what is there today. 00:42:13.160 --> 00:42:16.040 And I totally understand what you're saying. 00:42:16.040 --> 00:42:17.040 But I think what Alexis- 00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:23.600 And that's, Ron, that's currently covered by that elevator addition, that type E window. 00:42:23.600 --> 00:42:30.040 So there is another, there's a mirror of that type E on the far right-hand side, which is 00:42:30.040 --> 00:42:37.720 outside of this one historic fire station photo that we're working with. 00:42:37.720 --> 00:42:38.720 That makes sense. 00:42:38.720 --> 00:42:45.320 So basically, they're all going to have, look, they're going to do away with the double rectangle 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:50.080 windows that are hung and go to the little squares. 00:42:50.080 --> 00:42:51.800 Correct. 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:52.800 I like it. 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.800 Okay. 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.800 Thanks. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:03.200 Is there, will the fire truck doors come back? 00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:05.600 That is not a part of this current scope. 00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:11.760 It's limited to window work, really, and some cleaning of the cast stone surrounds. 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:17.720 Roy, if I can answer, I don't think that was, as Alexis mentioned, not part of the scope. 00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:24.680 And I don't think if we did something to that, we would need to get direction from council. 00:43:24.680 --> 00:43:26.240 Okay. 00:43:26.240 --> 00:43:27.240 Thank you. 00:43:27.240 --> 00:43:29.640 Any other questions? 00:43:29.640 --> 00:43:31.640 Okay. 00:43:31.640 --> 00:43:36.720 Okay. 00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:37.720 Make sure you wave. 00:43:37.720 --> 00:43:40.000 Evan, are you there? 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.400 I'm here. 00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:52.920 Any questions since I can't see you waving? 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:53.920 Okay. 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:54.920 Hearing none. 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:55.920 Okay. 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:56.920 Okay. 00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:05.640 So that ends the discussion part of our, of this particular agenda item. 00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:08.980 As before, we have, as a commission, four options. 00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:10.800 Approve is submitted. 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:15.360 Approve subject to conditions, deny or continue the item. 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.400 Any of those will require a motion in which after, and a second in which we can enter 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:20.400 into discussion. 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:29.960 Well, how about we let Jenelle be the motion maker? 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:31.800 Who was the second, please? 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:32.800 I second. 00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:33.800 Oh, Lenny seconded. 00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:34.800 Okay. 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:41.280 We have a motion to second and I'll just open the floor unless we have a problem. 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.280 Just be courteous. 00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:43.280 Sorry. 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:44.280 Go ahead, Angie. 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:48.680 I'm wondering, did we say the material, was it going to be wood? 00:44:48.680 --> 00:44:51.800 It's going to be the aluminum clad. 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:57.600 And there's a, there's a letter from the historical commission, Texas Historical Commission as 00:44:57.600 --> 00:45:02.760 part of the exhibit that explains, you know, that says that they approve this and think 00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:11.840 that it's because this is, let me open that one, it's exhibit eight. 00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:17.640 The Texas, he says, the historic windows were removed several decades ago and replaced with 00:45:17.640 --> 00:45:21.320 an appropriate windows that are currently on the building from photo documentation that 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.080 appears the original windows were wooden with divided lights. 00:45:25.080 --> 00:45:27.720 The divided lights are the little squares. 00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:32.320 The proposed restoration of the historic appearance of the windows with aluminum clad windows 00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.320 with the same profile and division of light within each window appears to be appropriate 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:40.140 and will have no impact on the building's RTHL designation. 00:45:40.140 --> 00:45:43.320 We therefore waive the remainder of the review period and the work may proceed. 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:49.340 So I think that, you know, especially since this is a public building, I think that there's 00:45:49.340 --> 00:45:52.520 the maintenance that comes into play. 00:45:52.520 --> 00:45:58.960 And I would, I would say that, you know, since the Texas Historical Commission doesn't seem 00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:03.280 to have an issue with this particular usage and it's not in the neighborhood where it's 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:09.160 not something that the neighbors might be offended that I think that the aluminum clad 00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:13.440 wood is an appropriate usage in this situation. 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:14.920 Okay. 00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:15.920 Thank you. 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.800 Anyone else? 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:22.240 Is there a reason why they wouldn't go wood? 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:23.440 It's a maintenance issue. 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:28.640 I would think really, you know, when you come to, you know, it's a public building and it 00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:30.040 has no trees around it. 00:46:30.040 --> 00:46:35.000 So there's a lot of sun and a lot of, you know, and I think that that's probably why 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:40.680 they chose, but I'll let the architect speak to that to go with the aluminum clad, because 00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:46.520 you don't have to repaint them, you know, from, you know, as maintenance, you know, 00:46:46.520 --> 00:46:52.800 working in facilities with the city, you know, that that's a big expense to the taxpayers. 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:54.840 They have to come in every few years and repaint. 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.280 It's not like a homeowner that makes that decision. 00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:59.060 It's just, you're maintaining the public building. 00:46:59.060 --> 00:47:03.360 So if you can avoid having to repaint the windows every couple of years, you're saving 00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:05.560 quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. 00:47:05.560 --> 00:47:06.560 I don't know. 00:47:06.560 --> 00:47:08.600 They're wasting my money if they're repainting them every couple of years. 00:47:08.600 --> 00:47:13.920 I've lived here 16 years and have not needed to repaint my west facing windows, which are 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:15.520 highly exposed to the sun. 00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:16.640 The windows are the best. 00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:19.760 It's the siding that's not so great for that. 00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:24.280 So I think the justification that it saves money in maintenance is probably pretty poor. 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:26.160 I mean, I'm one person here. 00:47:26.160 --> 00:47:30.840 Anybody else have real hardcore wood windows that are ancient? 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:32.680 They don't go bad. 00:47:32.680 --> 00:47:37.040 I do know that some that they do go bad sometimes. 00:47:37.040 --> 00:47:44.360 And as a public building and the State Historical Commission agreed, I don't have a problem 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.040 with aluminum clad windows. 00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:54.040 I don't like them, but the State Historical Commission is kind of higher than me. 00:47:54.040 --> 00:47:55.040 Okay. 00:47:55.040 --> 00:47:57.960 Is there any other further discussion? 00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:03.240 I'm going to wait just a beat or two for Evan. 00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:04.760 Okay. 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:09.040 Hearing none, we have a motion and a second to approve is submitted. 00:48:09.040 --> 00:48:12.200 Let's roll with Angie, your vote. 00:48:12.200 --> 00:48:15.000 Hey, come back to me. 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.000 I'm still thinking. 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:18.000 Okay. 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.720 Lenny, go ahead. 00:48:19.720 --> 00:48:20.720 Yes. 00:48:20.720 --> 00:48:21.720 Vote. 00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:22.720 I mean, I. 00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:23.720 Melody? 00:48:23.720 --> 00:48:24.720 Aye. 00:48:24.720 --> 00:48:25.720 Yes. 00:48:25.720 --> 00:48:30.300 Mary? 00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:34.480 I'm kind of right up there with Angie, let me think of it. 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:35.480 Okay. 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:36.480 Evan. 00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:37.480 Aye. 00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:38.480 Okay. 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:40.480 Angie, any thoughts? 00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:58.200 You know, I really like that they're putting it back to look like original. 00:48:58.200 --> 00:48:59.280 I love that. 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:02.600 I think it's going to look fantastic. 00:49:02.600 --> 00:49:07.680 I'm just on the fence with why they wouldn't go with wood if we're trying to preserve a 00:49:07.680 --> 00:49:09.600 historic structure. 00:49:09.600 --> 00:49:13.800 And I know that, you know, you have the state that approved it. 00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:18.040 But the way that I read the letter is that there was some discussion over it. 00:49:18.040 --> 00:49:21.240 And I believe there was some discussion over it because it's not wood. 00:49:21.240 --> 00:49:28.040 And I would just like our city to make a stance on preservation with the wood. 00:49:28.040 --> 00:49:34.560 But that's, that's my, I mean, I live in a house with all wood windows that, you know, 00:49:34.560 --> 00:49:47.840 the same thing, so I'll, I'll go with it, I'll say yes. 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:52.800 I will say yes, mainly because I think wood is not the same as it was when my house was 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:53.800 built. 00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:58.720 I mean, I have the big pine or whatever it is, windows, I suspect, you know, wood on 00:49:58.720 --> 00:49:59.720 my walls. 00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:05.960 But I suspect the wood is of cheaper quality, so I will, as a taxpayer, go with that. 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:07.040 Okay. 00:50:07.040 --> 00:50:12.520 My only concern is that we apply, I mean, I get that there are different building uses 00:50:12.520 --> 00:50:16.240 and whatnot. 00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:19.920 I understand that maintenance in a public facility, but I would have preferred these 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.680 to be real wood windows. 00:50:22.680 --> 00:50:25.600 They would, anyway, neither here nor there. 00:50:25.600 --> 00:50:27.160 We've all voted. 00:50:27.160 --> 00:50:29.400 We approve it unanimously. 00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.400 Yes, ma'am. 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:31.400 Janelle. 00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:32.400 You didn't, you didn't count my vote. 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:33.400 Oh, sorry. 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:34.400 Go ahead, Janelle. 00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:35.400 I think I would vote to approve it. 00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:36.400 Oh, good. 00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:37.400 Did you vote? 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.800 Yes, I voted yes with some comments. 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:45.800 Yeah, like, like the rest of it. 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:55.160 Well, it's, yeah, you know, it's just, sometimes it's a bit of a trade-off and you look at, 00:50:55.160 --> 00:51:03.480 you know, public facilities and whatnot, it just, it would seem to me like we need a universal 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.960 set of standards with regard to windows and we apply those. 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:08.480 But that's neither here nor there. 00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:11.240 The motion passes unanimously. 00:51:11.240 --> 00:51:15.320 Are there any public comments? 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.520 I haven't heard them along. 00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:21.760 So that passes one, two, three, four, five. 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:26.920 I'm going to, I'm going to have to excuse myself because I've got to go to a meeting 00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:27.920 at work. 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:28.920 Okay. 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.920 Thank you very much. 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:30.920 Thank you, everybody. 00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:31.920 Thank you, Janelle. 00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:32.920 Bye. 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:33.920 Bye. 00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:34.920 Bye. 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:35.920 Bye. 00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:36.920 Okay. 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:43.080 We will note that Janelle has had to leave for work, but we still have one over our 00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:44.080 quorum limit. 00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:53.480 So we'll proceed to our last agenda item, which is COA 0008, hold a public hearing and 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:58.280 consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:05.720 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to install photovoltaic cells on the roof of the house 00:52:05.720 --> 00:52:11.520 located at 305 Marietta Street within the West Oak Historic District. 00:52:11.520 --> 00:52:17.680 The site is located on Marietta Street between Houston Place and Oak Street. 00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:22.440 I believe Ron is going to do the presentation. 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:27.880 Yes, sir. 00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:34.480 So we're having a little technical difficulties here, but I'll just go ahead and do a quick 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.120 introduction. 00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:43.340 This is a COA certificate of appropriateness application for a proposal to install roof 00:52:43.340 --> 00:52:49.640 mounted solar panels on a property located at 305 Marietta. 00:52:49.640 --> 00:53:07.980 So we're going to try to reload the presentation. 00:53:07.980 --> 00:53:11.720 Next slide. 00:53:11.720 --> 00:53:12.720 This is a close up view. 00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:18.160 I think this is an important view of the home, as you can see. 00:53:18.160 --> 00:53:24.820 The west is towards the left and the street is on the east. 00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:29.440 So the panels that are being proposed, and you'll see an illustration of this, will be 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:36.080 on the west facing side of the roof. 00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:42.360 I wanted to show just an illustration of the front of the house where there are lots of 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:49.000 trees and would not be an appropriate location for the solar panels. 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:56.600 But with the rear view, next slide, although this was taken more in the winter, you can 00:53:56.600 --> 00:54:04.760 see that there's not much coverage on the west facing roof plane of the house. 00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:11.800 If we go to the next slide, this illustrates where the applicant is proposing to locate 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:14.280 the solar panels. 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:23.160 There are a total of 15 panels, 14 of which are located on the west facing. 00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:29.360 And then there is one just on the south facing by itself. 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:36.000 You can just see where it is right below the number three there. 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.200 Next slide. 00:54:38.200 --> 00:54:44.760 Similar to the other COAs, we have a section of the code that references architectural 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:45.760 requirements. 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:53.800 This one for this consideration is for the West Oak Area Historic District, and it does 00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:59.480 have a section that talks about solar panels, and it states that the Historic Landmark Commission 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:05.800 may allow solar panels on a building if the placement does not have any adverse effect 00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:11.280 on the architecture of the building or the district as a whole. 00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:18.760 With staff's review of the proposed location, staff is recommending approval of this certificate 00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:21.040 of appropriateness request. 00:55:21.040 --> 00:55:23.460 I will stand for questions. 00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:31.200 We also have the contractor that is working with the property owner on the phone if you 00:55:31.200 --> 00:55:33.920 all have any questions. 00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:41.000 Okay, as before, just raise your hand and we will roll into the questions. 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:47.080 Wow, what a quiet group today. 00:55:47.080 --> 00:55:54.400 Well we all understood what he said and the description, very good. 00:55:54.400 --> 00:56:01.680 For the first time the pictures were crystal clear, it was just, you know, no, no problem. 00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:06.960 Thank you, the applicant made it easy for you. 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:07.960 Exactly. 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:13.920 Okay, so I think that closes our question section of the presentation. 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:17.580 As before, the Historic Landmark Commission has four options. 00:56:17.580 --> 00:56:22.920 We can approve as submitted, approve subject to conditions, we can deny or continue the 00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:23.920 item. 00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:29.440 Any of those, we would need a motion and a second to enter discussion, followed by a 00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:30.440 vote. 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:31.720 Do we have a motion? 00:56:31.720 --> 00:56:36.080 I move that we accept it as requested. 00:56:36.080 --> 00:56:37.480 I'll second it. 00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:44.320 Okay, we have a motion by Lenny and a second by Angie that, so let's just open discussion. 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.000 So raise your hand and join in. 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:58.080 Wow, okay, we are still a quiet bunch, Mary, anything? 00:56:58.080 --> 00:57:00.240 You know, I'm not a big fan, but they don't face the street. 00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:01.240 Who do I care? 00:57:01.240 --> 00:57:05.560 You know, if they face the back, they're not going to be seen by anybody, but the EMF UNT 00:57:05.560 --> 00:57:07.480 decides to put up eventually. 00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:11.720 Okay, so hearing no further questions, let's call the vote. 00:57:11.720 --> 00:57:14.880 Angie, I don't want to go to you always first. 00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:16.200 That's okay. 00:57:16.200 --> 00:57:17.200 Yes. 00:57:17.200 --> 00:57:18.200 Mary. 00:57:18.200 --> 00:57:19.200 Yes. 00:57:19.200 --> 00:57:20.200 Lenny. 00:57:20.200 --> 00:57:21.200 Yes. 00:57:21.200 --> 00:57:22.200 Okay, Melody. 00:57:22.200 --> 00:57:23.200 Yes. 00:57:23.200 --> 00:57:24.200 Roy is yes, and Evan. 00:57:24.200 --> 00:57:25.200 Okay. 00:57:25.200 --> 00:57:34.400 That means all of us have, did I miss anybody? 00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:35.400 Okay. 00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:37.560 You got it. 00:57:37.560 --> 00:57:42.040 Hearing none, it's approved unanimously by a vote of six to nothing. 00:57:42.040 --> 00:57:45.400 I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our agenda. 00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:54.120 I've been asked, however, for completeness, that we close our meeting with a motion to 00:57:54.120 --> 00:57:58.200 adjourn, followed by a second, just so we can time out. 00:57:58.200 --> 00:58:02.160 Before we do that, can I make, ask a question, please? 00:58:02.160 --> 00:58:03.760 Yes, ma'am. 00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:15.140 I was contacted by a young woman who had discussed wanting to make a presentation to the commission, 00:58:15.140 --> 00:58:22.280 and the letter that was sent out indicated that she had until a certain date, but the 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:30.120 date did not, the letter did not indicate that there was a time of day also that limited 00:58:30.120 --> 00:58:32.600 what she could do. 00:58:32.600 --> 00:58:34.840 So she missed a deadline. 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:41.200 And I'd just like to ensure that in the future, if there is, if you send out a notice and 00:58:41.200 --> 00:58:48.000 it says the last day to do this is on the eighth, if it is at four o'clock on the eighth 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:52.880 or 12 o'clock on the eighth, we state that in the letter. 00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:57.240 So to make it clear that you don't have an all day on the eighth to do it. 00:58:57.240 --> 00:59:02.720 Lenny, if I can get clarification, was that a letter that was sent out or was that the 00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:05.040 agenda posting? 00:59:05.040 --> 00:59:13.280 She referred to it as a letter that the letter told her she had a date, but it did not say 00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:17.560 what time it was, and it was, I think, at noon or something. 00:59:17.560 --> 00:59:18.560 Okay. 00:59:18.560 --> 00:59:25.000 We'll make sure we put a deadline as to when comments and requests can be made. 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:27.520 Okay. 00:59:27.520 --> 00:59:28.520 Thank you, Lenny. 00:59:28.520 --> 00:59:30.360 Do we have a motion to adjourn? 00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:32.480 Motion to adjourn. 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:33.480 Okay. 00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:36.160 Motion and a second. 00:59:36.160 --> 00:59:39.200 Any opposed? 00:59:39.200 --> 00:59:43.240 Hearing none, we stand adjourned at four o' two p.m. 00:59:43.240 --> 00:59:44.240 Thank you, everyone. 00:59:44.240 --> 00:59:45.240 Thank you. 00:59:45.240 --> 00:59:55.240 [BLANK_AUDIO]