Jun 08, 2020 Historic Landmark Commission on 2020-06-08 3:00 PM

Okay, good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to our June 8th meeting of the Historic Landmark Commission. We're doing this, the first time ever, sort of Zoom one person live, and I'm sure we'll have some bugs, but we'll work our way through it. The first thing I'm going to note is we do have a quorum of six commissioners present at the moment. I see Lenny waving hello. And we can't, we don't have audio on Lenny at the moment. So we'll work something out as we go through. The first thing that we will do is do the Pledge Allegiance to the U.S. flag. So I suppose, hand over heart, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And likewise, the Texas flag, honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, one state under God, one indivisible. Okay now, a couple of housekeeping matters I think I want to get through first. It will help if you, when you're not speaking, if you'll mute yourself, and I'll try not to, and we're going to have to do the votes by roll call by name. So we'll work our way through that. We have three items, really four items on our agenda, three actual projects, and then the minutes from last time. Now, I will ask everybody, does anybody not get the email for the minutes? Okay then we need a motion to approve it, or a motion to postpone the approval of the minutes, because we can certainly take care of this our next time. Chair, if I can interject, the minutes were included with the packet that went out? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. And I'll second. Oh good. Lenny, we have you now. We have a motion and a second. And I'll do a roll call if you're in favor of approving the minutes. Let's go with Angie. Yes. Janelle? Yes. Mary? Yes. Lenny? Yes. Melody? Yes. And I think we have Evan via cell phone, right? We may have lost Evan. Okay. Okay. Any opposed? Hearing none, we'll record an approval at five to zero. Thank you, everybody. Our first topic, Chair, if I can interject, I believe there are seven members. Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six, oh, seven members. Yes. Sorry, I missed somebody. Melody. Yeah, I think I got you. All right. Evan, I believe is on the line, but I'm not sure what his vote was on the minutes. I'm hearing and I said yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. We heard you. Got it. Okay. And listen, bear with us because new thing for all of us and we'll work our way through this. The item for consideration, the second item on our agenda is COA 20-0006, to hold a public hearing and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Dent Development Code to replace existing windows on a house located at 921 West Oak Street within the Oak Hickory Historic District. The site is located on Oak Street between Welch and Denton Street. I think the presentation will be done by Ron. Yes, Chair. Thank you. We did receive two white cards, virtual white cards for this item. We will have it for our records, but we will not read out the comments. There was no direct opposition related to the item for consideration. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation, if we can get the presentation on. Great. Monica, if you make it full screen for the ... Great, so as introduced in the introduction, this is a COA request for a project to replace existing windows on an existing home that's located in the Oak Hickory Historic District, specifically 921 West Oak Street. Next slide. This is a close-up view of the home. It is just to illustrate that the owner of the home is Willie Alcala, and it is a single-story home, again, within the Oak Hickory Historic District. This is a view of the front taken from Oak Street, and I want to direct your attention to the windows that are shown here. Again, these are existing windows, and you can see from the details, there are four panes on the top part and a large pane on the bottom of each window. Next slide. What the applicant is proposing to do is match the exact architectural detail of the windows. They are proposing to replace 17 total windows covering the entire home, and again, as you can tell from the existing window details, what is being proposed as part of the replacement is very similar. Next slide. What we look at when reviewing a COA application are architectural requirements, and what I've listed here are all of the specific requirements as it relates to windows. Is it compatible in scale? Is it proportionally balanced? Does the size and the proportion, is it consistent with the style and period of the building? Does the trim match in the manner, the style? And again, it's consistent with the typical style of the home. And based on the staff's analysis, next slide, the staff is recommending approval of the request to replace the existing windows with the applicant's proposal. With that, that ends my presentation, and I believe we have hopefully members of the applicant's team available if you all have any questions. Okay, so let's try it this way. If you have questions, just chime in, or I can call it by everybody by name. In fact, maybe we should do that, Angie? There's a raise hand feature, by the way, built into Zoom. It's not on my version today. I don't know why. It's not there. Or you can also, I can probably see it if you raise your hand, because we certainly want to make sure everyone has, is not cut off in their questions or their discussion. So just wave at me and we'll roll it. Okay, Mary, if you want to start off. Well, I live right across the street or one house over, so I see this house quite a bit. I'm glad the applicant has made the windows look similar, but I'm disappointed at the material choice. Aluminum is not the world's greatest thing. In fact, usually they don't hold up as well, as far as I can see from having seen a lot of historic houses. And typically, at least in the recent past, we required replacement with similar materials, which in this case would likely be wood. Is that any, is that change, Jerome? I thought we had to have similar replacement materials. No, you're absolutely correct. My understanding is that the material that is to be used will be wood. And we do have a Tom Herman, who is the contractor on the line, and maybe he can elaborate on the material that is being proposed. I thought you said they were aluminum, but that's why I'm confused when you read. Did I misunderstand? Yes. Can you hear me? Tom, can you elaborate on the materials that are proposed for the windows? Can you hear me now? Yes. Hello. Okay. Yeah, this is an aluminum clad wood window. So it's a wood window with just a aluminum clad exterior to keep them from rotting. And from what I could tell, looking at some others there in that neighborhood, there are several others there that have that same aluminum clad wood. So it is a solid wood window. It will have the same light pattern on the top and then a solid glass on the bottom. Matter of fact, this is the 366 glass, which has a 0.21 solar heat gain spec to it. So it is far better than the 0.31 that is required. Well, my concern is that aluminum clad wood is not the same as wood. And I am not sure. I live in a 100 plus year old house, Mr. Herman. My house has windows that are wood. And guess what? They're just fine and they have not rotted. So I think that there's a misnomer that that's an advantage that they would rot. I can assure you my house is at least 102 years old. It could be 106. The same windows have been here for that many years. They have faced all the elements. If you paint them occasionally, we haven't painted them in 16 years and they're really just good. So I don't see why we can't have the real wood exterior as opposed to aluminum clad wood. You paint them. They handle it just fine. And there's no traditional. Yeah, we can do them in all wood. I mean, street face, I don't care what you do in the back, but street face should be wood. Yeah. Janelle, I think. They can be all wood. Okay. I was just going to make a comment that the aluminum cladding, it appears to be wood or paint. I mean, I think it's a pretty common newer technology in windows that it's not like an aluminum window. It's actually a more expensive product than your straightforward wood window. And the aluminum cladding, it's powder coated with a white or whatever color is chosen to match the house. So they don't look like aluminum windows. It looks like a wood window visually. So I was just going to put that in there that that's actually, you know, usually in higher end homes, that is just, you know, like a better product that they are using today. So it's not a cheaper version. I was just going to let you know that it's, you know, that's actually it's not a factor for me. The factor is, as I am a neighborhood person here on the committee and the rules are that you replace like with like, if it faces anything that looks out onto the street, if it doesn't face the street, you can't see it from the street. Most people don't mind that whatever you want to put on the back, but it's kind of a brick, you know, pulling out the foundation pretty soon. We're just going to go all aluminum everywhere. And yes, it would be nice. I'd like aluminum siding on my house. I don't have to spend a fortune painting it. But you take away from the character of the history. And I just I like the they match the windows and this house isn't as old as my house. I'll admit, but it has a history and it should, it's since they're mostly covered, as I recall from your picture, Ron, that they're unlikely to have that much damage if my windows, which are covered and plenty of them that aren't covered have not rotted. I don't think that's a major problem in today's modern age. Okay. So this is a question for we'll have plenty of opportunity, I think in a minute to discuss it. But let's try and questions for Ron or Mr. Herman, I believe. Anyone else? Chair, I've got a question for the applicant to help our discussion. Tom, can you talk about how many windows are facing Oak Street? I thought I saw four. Yeah, there's a triple window and then one other window that faces the front, if I recall correctly. Okay, I just want to make that a point for the commission. As we get into our discussions. Okay. Do we have any other questions from commission members? All right, and Angie. Oh, Angie, sorry, got you. That's okay. So I see the triple window in the front, I'm looking at the photo that was sent in our materials and the porch, it looks like it is a double window or if it's two single windows on the porch. Okay. Yeah. So that yeah, that probably was a double on the porch and then a triple on the right hand side. Five. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, anyone else with questions for Mr. Herman or Ron? Okay, well, thank you guys for the presentation. For the commissioners, as usual, we have four possible options. We can approve as submitted, we can approve subject to conditions, we can deny or continue the item. Before we enter discussion, we would need a motion and a second and I'll open the floor. Mary? Well, I would, I suppose I missed out, I wanted to know whether or not it was just for the front windows he was asking about, but I missed that. I would only approve this if they are, I would make a motion that we only approve this under the conditions that the exterior facing the street is wood. I would second that. Okay. So we have a motion and a second that would be to approve subject to condition, the condition being that the Oak Street facing windows not be aluminum clad, but rather wood in their entirety. All right. I understand the motion. So we have a motion and a second discussion. How about we try the waving again? Lenny? I want to know exactly what our ordinance says about the windows. Okay, Ron, you want to take that one? Sure. Included in the backup, I provided a list. It has windows and doors as a section for the architectural standards for the Oak Hickory Historic District, specifically for style, it states all windows and doors in the front facade of the main building must be proportionally balanced. The size and proportion of the windows located on the front and sides of the main building must be typical of the style and period of the main building. And I believe the last one here, it says that the frames of the windows must be trimmed in a manner typical of a style and period of the building. That is the majority of what's discussed under windows in the Oak Hickory Historic District. So it doesn't require that they be wood, clear wood, rather than aluminum clad wood. It doesn't go, we don't have a materials per se, however, what I believe it implies is that the windows are as consistent in the style and period of the building. Okay. Melody? Oh, sorry. Melody, you had your hand up. Can I make a comment, this is, oh, okay, all right. We just had our windows replaced with the aluminum wrapped wood and they look like wood. It has a texture on the outside that looks like wood. Is that the case with these particular windows? If we can have, I believe Tom answered yes. Yes, and matter of fact, the frame of the window does not change. The only thing that's changing is we take out the stops inside the sides and we put in a new sash on the top and the bottom. The outside frame of the window and all the molding and everything that's currently there stays exactly the same. It is still the real wood. The only thing is the sash itself has the aluminum cladding on it, which keeps it working properly and from rotting. This is almost 99% of the windows we replace in Highland Park is this aluminum clad for that same reason. Okay, thank you. I'd like to point out, if I could at this point. I took a few minutes to review the Department of the Interior standards for which are not specifically referenced and these are simply guidelines that they give us for historic preservation and in that particular document, which is on the National Park Service website, it indicates that when historic windows exist, they should be repaired when possible. When they are too deteriorated to repair, the selection of replacement windows must be guided by standard six and I won't read every bit of it, but using the hierarchy or the building's feature take into account the windows visibility, some general guidance can be drawn. One, the replacement of windows on the primary street facing or highly visible elevation to the building of three stories or less must match the historic windows in all detail and material. Now, I point out that those are not standards directly adopted, but I think Mary, when you were commenting before, you know, we are reminded that these are sort of the gold standard for that. So, with that, I'll let the discussion -- oh, who does -- oh, Angie, yes, ma'am, go ahead. So back -- I don't know if you recall, Roy, and when we had -- people come to this commission and they spoke to us about preservation and about preservation with historic structures and one of the key things that they mentioned were windows. And so with what you just read, too, I was under the impression we were only allowing replacement of windows if they were broken and not really coming into a whole structure and replacing windows. However, with that said, I think we have to look at not what it looks like. We don't have to -- cost is not an issue to this commission at all, but we have to go with preservation and what is going to be preservation for our historic structures. And with that, that is with the real wood. And that is why I seconded the motion, is because I do feel like we have to really adhere to preservation. And with the preservation, windows are huge with that, and that's what I'm going to stand with. >> Okay. I have a question for Angie. Talking to me about the windows on the Oak Street-facing facade versus perhaps the rear of the home, do you draw a distinction there at all? >> Actually I would prefer they all stay wood. >> Okay. >> Everyone for preservation. >> That's my preference, but -- >> That would be my preference as well. >> I'm settling on the front-facing look to it. >> Okay. Now, I believe the motion was to approve with modifications at the front-facing windows to be wood. Is that correct? That's your motion, Mary? >> That was my motion, although Angie actually brought up an important point about -- or actually made it with you when you were reading it, Roy, that perhaps they should be repaired as opposed to replaced. I thought that was what you -- I understood historic preservation, or did I miss it? >> You're correct. But it's sort of up to the homeowner to make the decision if they feel like the windows that are there are repairable, restorable correctly, or if they need to be replaced. But -- >> Well, actually I'm not sure that it is up to the homeowner, by the way. I think it's up to us to decide based on the information we're given. That said, I can understand wanting to replace windows. I still think that at least front-facing, street-facing items should abide by historic preservation. One of the items -- and this is an aside that I wanted our previous historic preservation officer to deal with -- is to make sure every new owner coming into a historic home knew the requirements by the time they bought it, or perhaps while they were looking at it. I don't know if Mr. Acala has gotten those, if anybody has notified him of that. But I think the rules are there. I mean, why are we here if we're not going to preserve? And make that attempt to preserve history of homes. We have so few historic homes left in this town, they keep getting knocked down. >> Angie, I see your hand up. >> I do. I have a question for Ron. So, Ron, when you were reading our guidelines, to me it sounded like those guidelines were for new construction maybe coming in. And so I wonder, is there a difference between new construction versus preserving an existing structure? >> No, ma'am. The only architectural standards I have are listed all at one location, and there's no differentiation between new construction and restoration. Although there are different sections that talks about new construction and additions, overall, the windows and doors specifically applies to both. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Anyone else have any comments? Okay. The motion on the floor is, marries, as it stands now, with the second, that we approve subject to conditions. That condition at the moment is that the oak street facing windows be replaced with solid wood windows. I suppose at this point we are going to call a vote. So those in favor of the motion, how about you raise your hand and I'll record them. All right. So we've got Mary. We have Melody. We have Lenny. Angie. And Janelle. And who? >> Evan. Evan's on the line. >> And Evan, are you -- what's your vote? >> I just raised my hand digitally through the app. >> Okay. Then Roy likewise votes affirmatively. So are there any opposition? Hearing and seeing no waiving, then item number -- pardon me -- COA 20-0006 is approved with subject to conditions, a condition being that the oak street facing windows be wood. Thanks everybody. If there are any other questions or comments, we'll move to our next agenda item. Okay. Let me take about a 10-second recess. I'll be right back. Pardon me for that. Just reminded that if you're participating via cell phone or any phone, we don't hear you in real time. And so I'll try and be real slow between agenda items. Don't not be heard. The next item on our agenda is similar. And COA 20-0007, hold a public hearing and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the development code to replace existing windows on a building located at 221 North Elm Street, a designated local historic landmark. The site is located on the southwest corner of Elm and McKinney Street. I believe that Ron is going to make a presentation. Thank you, Chair. The presentation fold up and I'll make my presentation. One second. Okay. Can you go to the full screen? COA 20-0007, hold a public hearing and consider an application for certificate of appropriateness. Bear with us. If you go to the bottom, Monica, further to the right. Nope, one over, one more. Keep going to the right. Thank you. Good evening. This is a COA application for 221 North Elm, also referred to as City Hall West. This application is for the restoration of the windows. We'll have slides specifically to what is being proposed. This way of background, this was a building that was designated as a historic landmark, local historic landmark, that is, in 1982, adopted by ordinance 8269. Very recently, in November of 2018, there was a city council subcommittee created to discuss the use of the building and also the repair of the building. Out of that subcommittee, or steering committee, that is, there was a recommendation to restore the windows on, again, November 13th, 2018, the city council during a work session directed staff to move forward with the restoration of those buildings and associated work. Next slide. The next few slides is to illustrate the building as it is today. As you can see, this is the east view, the front of the building. This is the west view showing the building on, I'm sorry, the north view, showing the north side of the building. This is to show the windows that are facing west. And the last is the south view showing the six windows that are facing south. So what is being proposed, and I'm not going to read the entire list here, was included in the backup, the proposal or request is to replace all existing exterior windows, including the associated brick mold, accessories, et cetera. There are also work to clean up some of the cast stone seals. Also have additional glazing assigned to those individual windows, and to remove any suspended acoustical tile and grid as required to perform the work related to the replacement or restoration of the windows. What you see here are four types of windows, and they're very similar to what was there historically. So if we can go to the next slide. The front door you see here in the transom area will not be associated with any work. There is no work proposed. However, the windows all around the building will be replaced with, again, the types of windows as you see here. The first, the two that you see in front of you is type F, and the type that will be replaced is shown in the graphic to the right. Next slide. Similarly, the building to the north, you see that there is a little bit more elaborate window types. There is a type D and a type E, and what is being proposed is that they be replaced with the architectural proposal details that you see in the type D and type E drawings to provide a little bit more reference. If you look at the existing photo to the left, you see that the buildings will have, have been removed and replaced with some existing building or existing windows that are not consistent with what was there historically, and so what the proposal is to bring back those historic windows as you see in the drawings. Next slide. Using the Secretary of Interior Standards of, I'm sorry, for the treatment of historic properties, since this is not part of any historic district, but rather a local landmark as well as a state landmark, we use the following standards in our evaluation or analysis. Going through the standards, preservation for rehabilitation, restoration, reconstruction, the proposal meets the intent, and again, what the city is trying to do is match the windows that were there historically and that is what is being proposed. Next slide. For that reason, the staff is recommending approval of this COA and I'll stand for questions. We do have members of the facility staff who's managing this project as well as the architect that has been given the assignment to work on this project. Okay, at this point, Angie, go ahead. I have a question, Ron. Yes ma'am. Just a little confusion if you can help me out. When you had on there, I think a type E and a type F, I got confused with that. So are they, they're wanting to replace them for what they were originally. I appreciate that, but I'm not clear on are they all going to look that way. I just got confused with the E, F and those things. I think I understand what you're saying because when I was looking at this as I was reviewing it, I believe the historic reference photo that they show just illustrates what was there. If I can have Alexis McKinney explain what will be replaced and what type will be used, I think that will be helpful for the commission. Can you bring up those images again for everyone because that's where I'm confused. Okay. So Monica, if you can go to the slide that had the historic reference. Or for my commissioners here, is anyone else confused? Is it just me? No, it's not you because I thought the first slide, the numbering was wrong on the windows to the window to the frame. I thought the D and the F was not supposed to be there, but someplace else, I think. If we could bring those slides back up, I think that might. We're working on it right now. While we're working on it, Alexis, are you on the line? Yes. Yes, I'm here. If you can, as we try to get the slides up, if you can just give us how those types are going to be applied to, I won't say each of the window, but generally on City Hall West. Sure. So those are window types. So those are, they are different arrangements that were on the original building. That historic photo, if you have access to it, I think they're trying to pull it up is a great example because there are two types that are along the former auditorium. This is the north wall. So one was a pair of two double hung windows set within a cast stone half round top. And then there's another type, which I think was type D, that has a glazed transom. So there's only three window types on this building. The F type is represented almost everywhere else as a double hung window. So the windows that you see currently on the building are solid wood manufactured from the 1980s. And they are the, at least the second round of non-original windows on the building and maybe the third. So if you can go to slide four, Monica, right here, if you stay here. So Alexis, if you can explain what type will be applied to these windows. I know we know the type F, the more rectangular shape, the single rectangular, that will be used for those. But the four that are facing due north, what type will they be for each one of those? They will return to their original arrangement. So type D, there are three on the north wall. There is one type E that's set within the cast stone. And then the type G is in a non-original wall. So we're replicating the shape, if you will, but not the detailing. So what you're seeing in this photo, sorry, the video is about a minute behind the call. So I'm struggling for a little bit. On the image that I'm currently seeing of the existing building on that north elevation, the window to the far right is the type E. And so that is a cast stone panel below the sill and a cast stone half rounded head. We will just be replacing the windows between the two. And the three windows that you see to the left of that are the type D. And those originally had glazed transom. So we are going to put back the glazed transom and then the window below, which was not two double hung windows, but was one very large, wide double hung window that will be going there. Right now, there's a bit of a struggle because there is a floor addition that's in the building. And so we will be temporarily covering the back of the glazed transom so that you don't see that until that later addition is removed from the interior. And the type G, which is a non-original, it's a part of an elevator that was added, is there to the far left. So that's in a completely different opening that's plaster. But we'll be replacing that window as well because it is also severely deteriorated. Can we see the original from that historic photo? Can you go to that slide? Can you go down a couple of slides, please? A couple more. One more. There we go. That one. I understand what you're saying, Angie, I was looking at this, the masonry is actually on the opposite end versus what is there today. And I totally understand what you're saying. But I think what Alexis- And that's, Ron, that's currently covered by that elevator addition, that type E window. So there is another, there's a mirror of that type E on the far right-hand side, which is outside of this one historic fire station photo that we're working with. That makes sense. So basically, they're all going to have, look, they're going to do away with the double rectangle windows that are hung and go to the little squares. Correct. I like it. Okay. Thanks. Is there, will the fire truck doors come back? That is not a part of this current scope. It's limited to window work, really, and some cleaning of the cast stone surrounds. Roy, if I can answer, I don't think that was, as Alexis mentioned, not part of the scope. And I don't think if we did something to that, we would need to get direction from council. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Okay. Make sure you wave. Evan, are you there? I'm here. Any questions since I can't see you waving? Okay. Hearing none. Okay. Okay. So that ends the discussion part of our, of this particular agenda item. As before, we have, as a commission, four options. Approve is submitted. Approve subject to conditions, deny or continue the item. Any of those will require a motion in which after, and a second in which we can enter into discussion. Well, how about we let Jenelle be the motion maker? Who was the second, please? I second. Oh, Lenny seconded. Okay. We have a motion to second and I'll just open the floor unless we have a problem. Just be courteous. Sorry. Go ahead, Angie. I'm wondering, did we say the material, was it going to be wood? It's going to be the aluminum clad. And there's a, there's a letter from the historical commission, Texas Historical Commission as part of the exhibit that explains, you know, that says that they approve this and think that it's because this is, let me open that one, it's exhibit eight. The Texas, he says, the historic windows were removed several decades ago and replaced with an appropriate windows that are currently on the building from photo documentation that appears the original windows were wooden with divided lights. The divided lights are the little squares. The proposed restoration of the historic appearance of the windows with aluminum clad windows with the same profile and division of light within each window appears to be appropriate and will have no impact on the building's RTHL designation. We therefore waive the remainder of the review period and the work may proceed. So I think that, you know, especially since this is a public building, I think that there's the maintenance that comes into play. And I would, I would say that, you know, since the Texas Historical Commission doesn't seem to have an issue with this particular usage and it's not in the neighborhood where it's not something that the neighbors might be offended that I think that the aluminum clad wood is an appropriate usage in this situation. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Is there a reason why they wouldn't go wood? It's a maintenance issue. I would think really, you know, when you come to, you know, it's a public building and it has no trees around it. So there's a lot of sun and a lot of, you know, and I think that that's probably why they chose, but I'll let the architect speak to that to go with the aluminum clad, because you don't have to repaint them, you know, from, you know, as maintenance, you know, working in facilities with the city, you know, that that's a big expense to the taxpayers. They have to come in every few years and repaint. It's not like a homeowner that makes that decision. It's just, you're maintaining the public building. So if you can avoid having to repaint the windows every couple of years, you're saving quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. I don't know. They're wasting my money if they're repainting them every couple of years. I've lived here 16 years and have not needed to repaint my west facing windows, which are highly exposed to the sun. The windows are the best. It's the siding that's not so great for that. So I think the justification that it saves money in maintenance is probably pretty poor. I mean, I'm one person here. Anybody else have real hardcore wood windows that are ancient? They don't go bad. I do know that some that they do go bad sometimes. And as a public building and the State Historical Commission agreed, I don't have a problem with aluminum clad windows. I don't like them, but the State Historical Commission is kind of higher than me. Okay. Is there any other further discussion? I'm going to wait just a beat or two for Evan. Okay. Hearing none, we have a motion and a second to approve is submitted. Let's roll with Angie, your vote. Hey, come back to me. I'm still thinking. Okay. Lenny, go ahead. Yes. Vote. I mean, I. Melody? Aye. Yes. Mary? I'm kind of right up there with Angie, let me think of it. Okay. Evan. Aye. Okay. Angie, any thoughts? You know, I really like that they're putting it back to look like original. I love that. I think it's going to look fantastic. I'm just on the fence with why they wouldn't go with wood if we're trying to preserve a historic structure. And I know that, you know, you have the state that approved it. But the way that I read the letter is that there was some discussion over it. And I believe there was some discussion over it because it's not wood. And I would just like our city to make a stance on preservation with the wood. But that's, that's my, I mean, I live in a house with all wood windows that, you know, the same thing, so I'll, I'll go with it, I'll say yes. I will say yes, mainly because I think wood is not the same as it was when my house was built. I mean, I have the big pine or whatever it is, windows, I suspect, you know, wood on my walls. But I suspect the wood is of cheaper quality, so I will, as a taxpayer, go with that. Okay. My only concern is that we apply, I mean, I get that there are different building uses and whatnot. I understand that maintenance in a public facility, but I would have preferred these to be real wood windows. They would, anyway, neither here nor there. We've all voted. We approve it unanimously. Yes, ma'am. Janelle. You didn't, you didn't count my vote. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Janelle. I think I would vote to approve it. Oh, good. Did you vote? Yes, I voted yes with some comments. Yeah, like, like the rest of it. Well, it's, yeah, you know, it's just, sometimes it's a bit of a trade-off and you look at, you know, public facilities and whatnot, it just, it would seem to me like we need a universal set of standards with regard to windows and we apply those. But that's neither here nor there. The motion passes unanimously. Are there any public comments? I haven't heard them along. So that passes one, two, three, four, five. I'm going to, I'm going to have to excuse myself because I've got to go to a meeting at work. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Janelle. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay. We will note that Janelle has had to leave for work, but we still have one over our quorum limit. So we'll proceed to our last agenda item, which is COA 0008, hold a public hearing and consider an application for a certificate of appropriateness in accordance with section 2.9.2 of the Denton Development Code to install photovoltaic cells on the roof of the house located at 305 Marietta Street within the West Oak Historic District. The site is located on Marietta Street between Houston Place and Oak Street. I believe Ron is going to do the presentation. Yes, sir. So we're having a little technical difficulties here, but I'll just go ahead and do a quick introduction. This is a COA certificate of appropriateness application for a proposal to install roof mounted solar panels on a property located at 305 Marietta. So we're going to try to reload the presentation. Next slide. This is a close up view. I think this is an important view of the home, as you can see. The west is towards the left and the street is on the east. So the panels that are being proposed, and you'll see an illustration of this, will be on the west facing side of the roof. I wanted to show just an illustration of the front of the house where there are lots of trees and would not be an appropriate location for the solar panels. But with the rear view, next slide, although this was taken more in the winter, you can see that there's not much coverage on the west facing roof plane of the house. If we go to the next slide, this illustrates where the applicant is proposing to locate the solar panels. There are a total of 15 panels, 14 of which are located on the west facing. And then there is one just on the south facing by itself. You can just see where it is right below the number three there. Next slide. Similar to the other COAs, we have a section of the code that references architectural requirements. This one for this consideration is for the West Oak Area Historic District, and it does have a section that talks about solar panels, and it states that the Historic Landmark Commission may allow solar panels on a building if the placement does not have any adverse effect on the architecture of the building or the district as a whole. With staff's review of the proposed location, staff is recommending approval of this certificate of appropriateness request. I will stand for questions. We also have the contractor that is working with the property owner on the phone if you all have any questions. Okay, as before, just raise your hand and we will roll into the questions. Wow, what a quiet group today. Well we all understood what he said and the description, very good. For the first time the pictures were crystal clear, it was just, you know, no, no problem. Thank you, the applicant made it easy for you. Exactly. Okay, so I think that closes our question section of the presentation. As before, the Historic Landmark Commission has four options. We can approve as submitted, approve subject to conditions, we can deny or continue the item. Any of those, we would need a motion and a second to enter discussion, followed by a vote. Do we have a motion? I move that we accept it as requested. I'll second it. Okay, we have a motion by Lenny and a second by Angie that, so let's just open discussion. So raise your hand and join in. Wow, okay, we are still a quiet bunch, Mary, anything? You know, I'm not a big fan, but they don't face the street. Who do I care? You know, if they face the back, they're not going to be seen by anybody, but the EMF UNT decides to put up eventually. Okay, so hearing no further questions, let's call the vote. Angie, I don't want to go to you always first. That's okay. Yes. Mary. Yes. Lenny. Yes. Okay, Melody. Yes. Roy is yes, and Evan. Okay. That means all of us have, did I miss anybody? Okay. You got it. Hearing none, it's approved unanimously by a vote of six to nothing. I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our agenda. I've been asked, however, for completeness, that we close our meeting with a motion to adjourn, followed by a second, just so we can time out. Before we do that, can I make, ask a question, please? Yes, ma'am. I was contacted by a young woman who had discussed wanting to make a presentation to the commission, and the letter that was sent out indicated that she had until a certain date, but the date did not, the letter did not indicate that there was a time of day also that limited what she could do. So she missed a deadline. And I'd just like to ensure that in the future, if there is, if you send out a notice and it says the last day to do this is on the eighth, if it is at four o'clock on the eighth or 12 o'clock on the eighth, we state that in the letter. So to make it clear that you don't have an all day on the eighth to do it. Lenny, if I can get clarification, was that a letter that was sent out or was that the agenda posting? She referred to it as a letter that the letter told her she had a date, but it did not say what time it was, and it was, I think, at noon or something. Okay. We'll make sure we put a deadline as to when comments and requests can be made. Okay. Thank you, Lenny. Do we have a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. Okay. Motion and a second. Any opposed? Hearing none, we stand adjourned at four o' two p.m. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]