WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:14.680 Okay, it is nine o'clock and we do have a quorum, so let's call to order the March 9th, 2020 public utilities board meeting for the City of Denton. 00:00:14.680 --> 00:00:17.600 The first items are the consent agenda. 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:24.440 Does any board member wish to pull one of the items of A through G? 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:26.600 >> I'd like to look at item F. 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:30.760 >> Item F, any other items? 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:37.040 We have a motion to approve A through E and item G. 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:41.560 >> So moved. 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.160 >> Second. 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:44.580 >> All in favor, say aye. 00:00:44.580 --> 00:00:45.080 >> Aye. 00:00:45.080 --> 00:00:47.960 >> Okay, item F. 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.560 >> Terry Gator, fleet superintendent. 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:10.880 >> Yeah, Terry, first of all, I want you to know I intend to vote to approve this, but I wanted to call out a statement made in the write-up. 00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:18.200 It says the great all is nearing the end of its useful life, incurring excessive maintenance costs and increased downtime. 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:24.640 To me, that statement is like saying it costs too much and it breaks down all the time. 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:26.400 Therefore, give us a new one. 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.040 That doesn't tell us much. 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.920 Now, you made a very good presentation last time we were here. 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:39.920 You have a method to assign a number to the severity of each piece of mobile equipment. 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:46.840 I would recommend that we stop writing sentences like this in here, 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:52.760 incurring excessive maintenance costs and increased downtime in this description. 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:58.400 And instead maybe attach a one page, even a half page, it doesn't have to be a novel, 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:04.440 a summary of your method of evaluating the status of each piece of mobile equipment. 00:02:04.440 --> 00:02:14.880 So that would tell us quantitatively where this thing stacks up instead of excessive maintenance and increased downtime. 00:02:14.880 --> 00:02:24.960 And also, in this particular case, you're buying a new piece of equipment that's got different design features than the old one. 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:30.160 So there's some rationale for that also, so that's all I have. 00:02:30.160 --> 00:02:32.480 >> So you don't have a question? 00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:36.320 >> It was a statement. 00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:37.200 >> It was a statement, okay. 00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:38.400 >> And a suggestion. 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.760 >> Okay, and a suggestion. 00:02:39.760 --> 00:02:45.560 >> Yes, that we get away from the practice of routinely saying, 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:48.840 we need a new one because it costs too much and it breaks down all the time. 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:55.560 That needs to be quantified better, and he has a way to do that. 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:56.240 >> I know. 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:56.740 >> Yeah. 00:02:56.740 --> 00:03:00.880 >> So is that direction from the board, is that what the consensus from the board is? 00:03:00.880 --> 00:03:03.760 >> Is that consensus from the board to have the criteria? 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:07.040 >> I think it's a good idea to see if he helps explain things better. 00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:16.060 >> Because he did do the entire presentation last time, and it was, I mean, say, this falls in this category, and that's why we chose this, and it's just reliable. 00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:16.560 >> All right. 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.160 >> Thank you. 00:03:18.160 --> 00:03:19.800 >> Do we have a motion to approve this item? 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:25.220 >> Second. 00:03:25.220 --> 00:03:26.480 >> All in favor, say aye. 00:03:26.480 --> 00:03:27.000 >> Aye. 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:27.800 >> Aye. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.300 >> [INAUDIBLE] 00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:32.200 Items for individual consideration. 00:03:32.200 --> 00:03:37.840 >> Consider the approval of the MINS from the February 24th, 2020 board meeting. 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:39.320 Are there any changes or corrections? 00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:43.320 >> If none, I'll move approval. 00:03:43.320 --> 00:03:44.640 >> Do we have a motion to approve? 00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:45.520 Do we have a second? 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:46.640 >> Second. 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:48.200 >> All in favor, say aye. 00:03:48.200 --> 00:03:48.920 >> Aye. >> Aye. 00:03:48.920 --> 00:03:49.520 >> Any opposed? 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:50.040 No. 00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:52.320 >> Assistance. 00:03:52.320 --> 00:03:53.000 >> Very quick. >> Yeah, yeah. 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.040 >> Good morning, members of the board. 00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:01.560 In the ACM update, really the only thing to really cover with you all is the, 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.160 environmentally preferable purchasing memo and resolution. 00:04:05.160 --> 00:04:11.280 I think Mr. Stowe had asked that at our last meeting, and so it's been included for your review. 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:17.400 If you've got any questions, I believe there is someone for purchasing here, in the back, way in the back. 00:04:17.400 --> 00:04:21.960 And so we'll be happy to answer any questions we can if there are any. 00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:23.520 >> Do you have any questions? 00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:24.600 No? >> Yeah, I have a question. 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:35.320 I went back and I actually looked up environmentally preferable purchasing in the handbook. 00:04:35.320 --> 00:04:38.920 The purchasing handbook that's online. 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:44.640 And I was just wondering if there are any guidelines or 00:04:44.640 --> 00:04:51.880 specific areas that you all look at, I know that's a very broad question. 00:04:51.880 --> 00:05:00.200 But this is what the memorandum here with the actual ordinance 00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:05.960 really doesn't say anything about what the city's 00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:11.120 goals are in regard to environmentally preferential purchasing. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:16.400 And I don't know if this is going to be addressed in the update of the sustainable dentin plan that's coming in April. 00:05:16.400 --> 00:05:21.080 But I just wondered if now, if you all actually have codified set of criteria for 00:05:21.080 --> 00:05:25.840 determining whether or not something is environmentally, pardon me, preferable. 00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:37.400 >> Right now we're actually working with Catherine Barnett with sustainability to put together a policy for that. 00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:40.000 There are multiple policies already made within each department. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:47.480 Like Fleet has their own policy, and we're going to work to kind of put all that together here soon. 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:48.160 >> Great, thank you. 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:48.660 >> Yes. 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:54.440 >> Nothing else to report. 00:05:54.440 --> 00:05:56.560 >> Nothing else to report, all right. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:03.020 Including items, does the board member wish to have anything on a future agenda or? 00:06:03.020 --> 00:06:04.080 >> I do. 00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:05.200 >> Yes, George. 00:06:05.200 --> 00:06:09.280 >> In early February, the city of Denton lost a rather substantial lawsuit 00:06:09.280 --> 00:06:16.480 involving wrongful termination and involving different utilities, employees. 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:25.900 To the extent that it affects this group, I'm thinking that we should be briefed on the results of that lawsuit, 00:06:25.900 --> 00:06:33.600 the implications of that lawsuit, and that may need to be in closed session or open session. 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.880 But I would like to see that happen. 00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:40.320 >> And Larry, that would be in closed session, correct? 00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:41.400 >> Yes. 00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:42.440 >> Personnel issue. 00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:44.440 >> Yeah. >> I thought that was still in appeal. 00:06:47.520 --> 00:06:49.160 We will need you in closed session. 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:50.440 >> Yeah. >> Okay, yeah. 00:06:50.440 --> 00:06:52.240 >> All I know is what I read in the paper. 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:54.720 >> That's why I worded it correctly, it was not good. 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:55.220 >> Yeah. 00:06:55.220 --> 00:07:01.800 >> And then my second issue is a question. 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:06.600 When will this group review financial statements for 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.720 Denton Municipal Utilities next? 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.640 >> Are you speaking about just the budget process? 00:07:12.640 --> 00:07:13.160 >> Yeah. 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:16.200 >> I was talking about actual rather than- >> You mean the results, quarterly results. 00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:17.160 >> Quarterly results, yeah. 00:07:18.440 --> 00:07:24.120 >> Let me have David Gaines come up, because those are generated from finance, 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.040 and those can be included in an upcoming report. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.920 >> [INAUDIBLE] 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.480 >> Well, there's multiple options where you'll see them. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:37.400 First being the quarterly reports that we submit to council into the PUB as we 00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:41.320 wrap up the quarterly financials, usually a couple months after the quarter end. 00:07:41.320 --> 00:07:42.680 So you'll see them there. 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.640 Obviously, we're about to kick off the budget process. 00:07:44.640 --> 00:07:48.200 Those throughout the budget process will have detailed financials of what happened 00:07:48.200 --> 00:07:50.360 last year, where we are, year to date this year. 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:52.920 As we talk about the decisions to make moving forward. 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.640 With the DEC specifically, obviously, we have the DEC report that comes out. 00:07:55.640 --> 00:07:58.680 That'll be on the next PUB's ACM update. 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:02.640 So, numerous steps along the way, but I guess as far as the actual financials of 00:08:02.640 --> 00:08:06.280 where we are, we have our quarterly report that we produce every quarter and 00:08:06.280 --> 00:08:07.720 that will come to PUB. 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:11.480 >> Okay, I think I've been on the, pardon me. 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:13.120 >> And that'll be April, right? 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.440 The March 31st. 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:18.280 >> Right, so we had to take a little bit of time to get ready as we close the 00:08:18.280 --> 00:08:20.520 votes, but yeah, following them. 00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:24.360 >> I guess my question is, I think I've been on this group for more than a quarter 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.680 now and haven't seen one of those distributed yet to the PUB. 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:29.420 >> Quarterly report. 00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:34.520 >> We've seen dashboards. 00:08:34.520 --> 00:08:35.040 >> Sure. 00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:35.960 >> But not the actual. 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.800 >> Well, our quarter report is online right now and I believe we've brought it to PUB. 00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:42.440 We'll go back and check and make sure that it can. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.080 >> That is good to have, sure. 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:47.580 >> Great. 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:50.700 >> Thank you. >> Thank you. 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:51.760 >> That's it? 00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:54.920 All right, then our next item is a work session. 00:08:54.920 --> 00:08:59.440 Receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding DM&E's 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:02.720 proposed electric vehicle charging infrastructure strategy. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.880 >> Good morning, PUB members. 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:11.200 Chris Ludrick, the executive manager of energy services here to introduce 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:16.380 a presentation we put together for you for some EV charging station options. 00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:21.160 In 2013, DM&E placed some charging stations, 00:09:21.160 --> 00:09:25.760 some blink charging stations at the North Lakes Library, North Lakes Park, 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:29.840 South Lakes Library, South Lakes Park, a couple of DM&E, and 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:34.200 I believe one other location, no other location, so. 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:35.720 So anyway, so I'm here to introduce Chase. 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.280 So Chase is kind of new to our group. 00:09:38.280 --> 00:09:43.480 He's our EV specialist, so he's been tasked with putting this presentation 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:48.800 together and he'll give you some options for upgrading the chargers that we have. 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:51.800 And the state that they're in, and kind of the justification for that. 00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:55.320 And finally, he'll end with a kind of looking forward. 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:59.920 Electric vehicles are gonna be a big challenge for the utilities going forward. 00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:04.560 So you'll see some of the predictions as the adoption rate increases. 00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:08.360 They could put a strain on our distribution system that we have to be ready four 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:09.240 years in advance. 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:12.080 So we're not ready to tackle that issue today. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:16.560 The utilities are still trying to come up with some ideas about how to handle 00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:19.680 that potential electrical load in the future. 00:10:19.680 --> 00:10:21.920 And how do you get that to an off peak time? 00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:29.760 And how do you make sure that it doesn't break your distribution system or 00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:31.160 put too much stress on it? 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:34.760 So with that, I'll introduce Chase Whitman and after that, after he's done, 00:10:34.760 --> 00:10:36.280 we'll stand for any questions you may have. 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:45.280 [BLANK_AUDIO] 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:46.960 >> Good morning, PEB members. 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:50.280 Like Mr. Lutrick mentioned, my name is Chase Whitman. 00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:52.920 I'm here with the DME Energy Services Team, 00:10:52.920 --> 00:10:54.560 presenting our electric vehicle strategy. 00:10:54.560 --> 00:11:00.440 The sustainability plan gives direction to develop an electric vehicle strategy 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:02.480 to address short and long term infrastructure and 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.200 charging needs as electric vehicle ownership expands. 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.160 So in conjunction with the sustainability team, 00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:13.520 we have developed a four phase forward looking electric vehicle strategy 00:11:13.520 --> 00:11:17.800 to address those short term needs with regard to services that we provide and 00:11:17.800 --> 00:11:21.240 access to electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:24.600 As well as look forward and address the long term infrastructure needs and 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:29.560 risks that might come about with increased levels of electric vehicle adoption. 00:11:29.560 --> 00:11:35.320 Our financial premise moving forward is to provide all of these public charging 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:38.840 services in a manner that recovers the cost of providing that service. 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:43.880 The majority of the time, that will mean that the rate that is billed to customers 00:11:43.880 --> 00:11:48.480 using our publicly available charging infrastructure will be designed to 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.560 both cover the ongoing cost of providing that service as well as within a reasonable 00:11:52.560 --> 00:11:56.680 time frame recover the capital expenditures necessary to implement that infrastructure. 00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:02.920 In the long term, our priority is to encourage charging behavior that won't 00:12:02.920 --> 00:12:04.400 compromise the distribution grid. 00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:09.440 Projections vary pretty widely on the subject since the industry of electric 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.120 vehicles is quite young and changing very rapidly. 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:16.680 But estimates from the Department of Energy find that medium to high levels of 00:12:16.680 --> 00:12:20.800 electric vehicle adoption, which in their projections are about 20 to 30% penetration 00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:25.120 by 2050, have the potential to increase residential electricity demand by 20 to 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.080 38% in the coming decades. 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:30.120 Without incentives to do otherwise, 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.520 most electric vehicle drivers plug their vehicle in immediately upon return home 00:12:33.520 --> 00:12:38.160 from work, coincident with our peak on the distribution system as it is. 00:12:38.160 --> 00:12:43.440 And such a dramatic increase in our peak electricity demand could have substantial 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.680 impact to the distribution system that we want to plan for and mitigate. 00:12:46.680 --> 00:12:51.800 So our plan has four phases, as I mentioned a minute ago. 00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:56.600 The first three phases focus on the short to medium term issues of access to charging 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.120 and services that we provide at DME through the upgrading of our existing 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:05.000 chargers, establishing a rebate program to share the costs with the private sector 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.880 to build out electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 00:13:07.880 --> 00:13:12.360 And to expand the city owned infrastructure where necessary. 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:16.880 The fourth phase of our plan is that long term outlook regarding developing 00:13:16.880 --> 00:13:20.880 a program to encourage charging behaviors that will not compromise the distribution 00:13:20.880 --> 00:13:25.400 system and find a mutually beneficial arrangement to meet those needs for 00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:27.960 our customers that will want to drive electric vehicles. 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:29.400 As well as take care of our infrastructure. 00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:32.840 So the first phase of our plan, 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.440 the modernization of our existing charging infrastructure network. 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:40.360 Primarily focuses on the upgrade to a modern charging platform of our existing 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.160 blink stations that Chris mentioned. 00:13:43.160 --> 00:13:46.960 As well as looking at the possible installation of a DC fast charger for 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.560 public use along I-35 located at our Pocker's Page substation. 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:56.120 The Texas Emissions Reduction Plan underway from the Texas Commission on 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:00.320 Environmental Quality offers grants that can fund up to 50% of the cost of 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.480 alternative fueling projects for vehicles with electric vehicle charging 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.160 being one of the focuses there. 00:14:05.160 --> 00:14:07.720 So we are looking to take advantage of those funding opportunities. 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:14.360 So as mentioned a couple minutes ago, our current charger locations that are 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:18.080 available to the public are at North Lakes Park, North Branch Library, 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.520 South Lakes Park, and South Branch Library. 00:14:20.520 --> 00:14:24.600 As it stands to date since 2013, the chargers at the North locations have 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.720 accounted for approximately 85% of charger use over time. 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:33.720 Due to the data limitations and the information that is provided to us on 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.560 charger use, we can't really predict or 00:14:36.560 --> 00:14:39.600 make a determination what we think the cause of that is. 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.160 So we're looking to continue gathering data and perhaps discern more about why 00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:45.360 that distribution settles the way that it does. 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:49.720 >> Can I ask, so that means people are using it? 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:50.760 >> Yes, people are using it. 00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:52.160 >> Okay, all right. 00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:56.160 >> When, in 2013 when the chargers were installed, usage was not very high and 00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:58.680 not very many people had electric vehicles. 00:14:58.680 --> 00:15:03.040 The charging utilization has been increasing pretty dramatically over time. 00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:04.640 But that being said, 00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:07.320 electric vehicles still account for less than 5% of vehicles. 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.200 So the thing, there isn't a line around the block to use the things, but 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:11.000 it's increased. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:19.080 So the installation of modern platform dual port charging infrastructure 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:20.520 at each of those locations, so 00:15:20.520 --> 00:15:26.240 replacing the existing single port chargers that were installed in 2013 with 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.440 one dual port charger on a modern platform to meet those charging needs and 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.040 keep charging capabilities and capacity approximately the same, 00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:38.280 will cost approximately $15,600 between purchase of the new chargers and 00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:42.000 installation and then removal of the existing chargers. 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:46.000 We have the possibility for 50% funding of that project through the TURP grants 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:47.600 mentioned a minute ago. 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.800 Those applications for the grant program are due in the next couple of weeks. 00:15:50.800 --> 00:15:54.720 Hopefully we will hear back sometime in March or April as to the status of those. 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.880 And then we'll come forward with hopes to gain authorization to use that grant 00:15:57.880 --> 00:15:59.360 funding to proceed with that project. 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.080 In the short term, the rate that is charged for use of the chargers will 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.320 remain the current rate that is being billed from the existing platform, 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.680 just not to price shock anybody. 00:16:09.680 --> 00:16:11.000 It's four cents a minute right now. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:17.280 As it stands, that covers the ongoing costs of the infrastructure that was put 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:21.760 in place and as usage is changing pretty rapidly with those, so 00:16:21.760 --> 00:16:26.320 we will gather some data, make some predictions and then determine on an ongoing basis. 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:27.320 Yes sir. 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:30.960 >> Four cents a minute, how did that equate to cost per kilowatt hour? 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:36.520 >> So the rate of power flow into the batteries 00:16:36.520 --> 00:16:38.800 varies with the charge level of the battery. 00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:42.960 So ones that are quite close to full, it's less kilowatt hours flowing. 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:47.800 The total charge time at the rate that these chargers charge is about four hours 00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:49.920 from completely empty to completely full. 00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.240 So that's about 10 kilowatt hours per hour, 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:54.640 given the average size of an electric vehicle battery. 00:16:54.640 --> 00:16:58.960 So some math there, a sixth of a kilowatt hour per minute. 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:05.240 But the billing structure is not set to bill by the kilowatt hours. 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.280 I mentioned it bills on a per minute basis. 00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:11.560 >> But on average about a sixth of a kilowatt hour per minute. 00:17:11.560 --> 00:17:15.360 >> And we're charging four cents per minute to use the facility. 00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:19.480 >> Yes, and with the existing platform, we do not have control over the price that 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:24.240 is billed that is set by the system operator, Blink, that installed them for us. 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.680 That's one of the reasons that we're looking to move to a different platform 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.440 that allows us to take some price control. 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.920 That opens up a lot of opportunities, whether it's once we've recovered 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.400 the capital cost of the chargers and there's only a need to cover ongoing costs, 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.760 perhaps a price reduction or ensuring that we can cover our costs. 00:17:41.760 --> 00:17:45.120 There are some interesting programs that have been piloted by Austin Energy and 00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:49.600 CPS Energy in San Antonio, where customers can pay just a flat rate on their monthly 00:17:49.600 --> 00:17:52.160 bill for unlimited access to the public charging. 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.800 That's something that if we determined we would like to look into or pilot, 00:17:55.800 --> 00:18:00.080 we'd have at least the flexibility with a new platform to look into. 00:18:00.080 --> 00:18:01.720 >> Do you know what that dollar amount is, that flat rate? 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.080 >> At Austin Energy, I believe it is $60 a year. 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:10.580 >> Okay. 00:18:10.580 --> 00:18:14.760 >> So as mentioned here, just a brief summary and 00:18:14.760 --> 00:18:19.840 overview of the four locations that we've got, as well as the cost per location, 00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:21.480 to perform those upgrades. 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:26.160 As mentioned, that will be approximately $15,600 all in for the project. 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:34.480 The TURP grant program does place special emphasis on the build out of DC fast 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.960 charging infrastructure along the interstate corridors. 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:43.800 They feel that that is one of the motivations to encourage electric vehicle 00:18:43.800 --> 00:18:46.440 adoption would be improved access, especially for people that are traveling 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.120 longer distance to not have to take several hours to charge back up. 00:18:50.120 --> 00:18:54.080 So we do have one location of city owned property right along the interstate 00:18:54.080 --> 00:18:59.400 frontage at our Pockers Page substation that we are looking to build a DC fast 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.480 charger to provide access there. 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.760 That location at the substation provides convenient access to the electric 00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:07.720 infrastructure that would be needed to power a charger, 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.960 as well as some city property to actually provide parking. 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:16.760 With the project, total estimate cost for that would be about $75,000, 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:19.560 with the possibility of 50% funding from the grant program. 00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:24.800 Our hope is that the rate there, if the project were to be implemented, 00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:32.520 since the test case here is that those interstate locations gain not only usage 00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:36.760 from the local community looking for a charge in a pinch, but also travelers 00:19:36.760 --> 00:19:42.520 passing through on the interstate there, we hope the thesis being tested there 00:19:42.520 --> 00:19:47.160 would be that spreading those costs across more people and transient chargers 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.600 would allow to charge a lower rate per kilowatt hour per minute of charging. 00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:57.840 -Question, I know what a TURP grant is, but how it applies to this I don't understand. 00:19:57.840 --> 00:20:00.280 Is there an exchange other than the purchase of the equipment? 00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:02.120 Do you have to take something out? 00:20:02.120 --> 00:20:07.840 Because in the past TURP grants were, I'll shut down my 1985 diesel and replace it 00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:11.560 with a 2020 diesel, and then TURP funds a portion of that. 00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:15.600 -So the TURP program beginning this year for the alternative fueling facilities 00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:21.120 program funds not only the replacement of existing fossil fuel fueling facilities, 00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:26.760 but the development of new construction for those alternative fueling facilities. 00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:31.520 This is a project that would be highly dependent on the grant funding being awarded. 00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:34.080 So when we learn about the status of that in the next couple months, 00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:36.840 if we are awarded that grant money, we would build out a more comprehensive plan 00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:41.320 and come forward to get direction and make a determination to move forward 00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:46.000 with the project at that time. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.760 The second phase of our plan involves the establishment of a rebate program 00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:56.440 to share costs for the build out of electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.360 When electric vehicle drivers are surveyed, the most common places that they cite 00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:04.720 a desire to have access to charging infrastructure are retail establishments, 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:09.080 restaurants, entertainment venues, places where they spend their leisure time. 00:21:09.080 --> 00:21:13.120 Since perhaps intuitively most of those locations aren't owned by the city, 00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:17.360 we do not have much flexibility to provide charging infrastructure at that locations. 00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:22.800 So we feel that the most effective way to facilitate the development of that infrastructure 00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:25.680 would be to share some of the costs there. 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:29.880 I understood that Cracker Barrel was putting them across the nation. 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.240 Do we have some at the Cracker Barrel around here? 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:35.240 I'm not aware of any at the Cracker Barrel. 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.040 There are a couple of places that have put in chargers as provision, 00:21:38.040 --> 00:21:39.960 kind of as a complimentary service to their customers. 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.160 Cinemark here in Denton is one that comes to mind. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:43.800 They just recently put in chargers. 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:47.600 So this is a behavior that you're seeing in very limited amounts as it stands. 00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.520 The idea with a rebate or incentive program would be to further drive 00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:54.240 the expansion of those types of networks. 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:55.960 Just a quick question. 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:00.360 You have Tesla with four locations. 00:22:00.360 --> 00:22:06.000 I know there's six superchargers out just off 35. 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.360 Is that what's included in these four? 00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:12.560 So that is each geographic address that holds chargers. 00:22:12.560 --> 00:22:15.160 So like Southlake and? 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.760 So some of the Tesla locations, for example, 00:22:17.760 --> 00:22:20.800 included here would be the chargers located at Razor Ranch 00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:23.000 as well as the embassy suites, chargers. 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.680 And there are a couple other two locations on I-35 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.760 that have Tesla chargers available. 00:22:27.760 --> 00:22:30.760 So this is just the physical addresses that have chargers present. 00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:34.120 It's not the number of chargers, it's the address of the chargers. 00:22:34.120 --> 00:22:35.040 OK, thank you. 00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:36.480 Yes, sir. 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:42.120 So the focus here to attain cost recovery for this program, 00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:45.480 at least the thesis that would need proving out over time, 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.320 would be that sharing those costs and providing that rebate, 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:50.800 those funds would be recouped over time through electricity sales 00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:51.920 through the charger. 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.640 These chargers have, at least with the advancement of the technology, 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:01.680 about a five to 10-year useful lifespan before they become outdated. 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.240 Based on the usages that we see from our publicly owned chargers, 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:07.320 that is a sufficient time frame at those usage levels 00:23:07.320 --> 00:23:11.160 to recover those costs through the electricity sales. 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.120 We plan to budget $20,000 for fiscal year 2021 00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:17.960 to provide up to 10 rebates for the installation 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:19.400 of those level two chargers, 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.520 sharing that cost at a rate of up to $2,000. 00:23:22.520 --> 00:23:24.680 The average cost for a level two charger installation 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:26.280 is anywhere from $6,000 to $10,000, 00:23:26.280 --> 00:23:31.480 so this would be in the 33% to 20% price range that we would cover 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.480 with the private entity providing the charge and covering the balance. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.000 I just had a quick question. 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.520 What's a level two charger as opposed to other kinds of chargers? 00:23:40.520 --> 00:23:44.680 So the electric vehicle charging infrastructure is ranked 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:46.840 based on the power output of the chargers. 00:23:46.840 --> 00:23:52.000 So level one charging is considered to be a 120-volt kind of... 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.120 If you were to plug charging into the standard wall outlet in your house, 00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:59.160 that takes about 16 hours for a full charge from empty. 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.040 Level two charging is 240-volt charging, 00:24:02.040 --> 00:24:04.880 typically anywhere from 7 to 10 kilowatts of power 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.600 that can charge a vehicle from empty to full, 00:24:07.600 --> 00:24:09.040 depending on the size of the vehicle's battery, 00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:10.880 anywhere from three to six hours. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:18.080 So is there a chance that level two is going to be obsolete in a year? 00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:22.280 That seems unlikely given the electrical infrastructure limitations. 00:24:22.280 --> 00:24:24.680 There is some build-out and was just mentioned previously 00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:26.680 regarding DC fast chargers. 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.680 As it stands currently, those are about five to six times the cost 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:36.000 of level two chargers as well as much more intense infrastructure requirements 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.200 to provide the power that's needed to charge those. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.720 So at least given the data that we have over the last few years across the nation, 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.960 level two build-out is occurring at a much, much higher level than DC fast charging. 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.840 Chase, how fast is a fast charger? 00:24:50.840 --> 00:24:53.800 So I apologize, I meant to mention that in the last slide. 00:24:53.800 --> 00:25:00.640 A fast charger can charge a vehicle from empty to full typically in 30 to 45 minutes. 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:06.440 So industry predictions, you know, kind of estimate that in the 30 to 40-year time frame 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.040 for mass EV adoption, fast charging would be the kinds of charges 00:25:10.040 --> 00:25:13.040 that you see replacing gas stations on street corners. 00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:16.920 However, like I mentioned previously, the infrastructure limitations 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.360 for those have not been dealt with yet. 00:25:20.360 --> 00:25:22.720 >> So Buc-E's would have a whole bank of-- 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.080 >> Two or three hundred of them, I suppose. 00:25:25.080 --> 00:25:26.400 >> Just checking. 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.080 >> Well, that would be a drain on our system. 00:25:32.080 --> 00:25:35.120 >> So phase three of our plan involves the expansion 00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:38.040 of the city's owned public charging network. 00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:41.760 After a couple years of providing those rebates and facilitating the development 00:25:41.760 --> 00:25:47.640 of privately-owned charging infrastructure, we will do some analysis, keep our eyes open 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.680 and engage with the community regarding the areas that they feel are being underserved 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.840 with that private investment if there is demand for electric vehicle charging 00:25:54.840 --> 00:25:57.360 that is not being met through private investment. 00:25:57.360 --> 00:26:00.280 That would be the types of situations that the city would look into building 00:26:00.280 --> 00:26:03.160 out our city-owned infrastructure network. 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:06.720 A couple of places that come to mind are the public parking lots 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.120 around the downtown square area or neighborhood parks distributed through Denton, 00:26:11.120 --> 00:26:14.680 particularly in areas with high renter populations if they don't feel 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.640 that their apartment complexes, what have you, 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.120 are providing the charging that they wish to have access to. 00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:26.000 So the grant opportunities for electric vehicles and electric vehicle infrastructure are expanding 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.240 constantly, so we would always seek to leverage those whenever possible and share some 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:35.760 of those costs to provide those services throughout the city at at least cost. 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:40.680 Our target date to begin looking at where the rebate program has been successful 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:47.800 and where expansion of the publicly-owned network is necessary would be in the 2022-2023 timeframe 00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:51.200 to see where those rebates have been utilized. 00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:57.640 The fourth phase of our program takes a longer-term approach regarding infrastructure risk 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:01.200 that would arise with high levels of electric vehicle adoption. 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:06.520 As mentioned earlier, most EV drivers just plug their car in upon return home from work 00:27:06.520 --> 00:27:09.800 without a second thought if they don't have an incentive to do otherwise, 00:27:09.800 --> 00:27:12.800 a coincidence with our electric system peak. 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:18.760 In the event that even 20 or 30 percent of people begin driving, just on one street, 00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:22.600 begin driving electric vehicles and five people, neighbors all come in and plug 00:27:22.600 --> 00:27:26.760 in their car at the exact same time at 5 p.m., we'd be looking at risk of running 00:27:26.760 --> 00:27:30.080 into reliability issues and outages potentially. 00:27:30.080 --> 00:27:34.360 So as electric vehicle adoption increases and since we don't know the timeframe, 00:27:34.360 --> 00:27:39.080 it would kind of be on an ongoing basis knowing when we need to be prepared for that. 00:27:39.080 --> 00:27:44.520 But we plan to look at some of the methods that are being tested in the electric utilities industry 00:27:44.520 --> 00:27:49.080 in order to incentivize people to shift their charging behaviors in a way 00:27:49.080 --> 00:27:52.400 that isn't too inconvenient but also protects our infrastructure. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.360 Some of the methods that have been met with success in pilot so far 00:27:56.360 --> 00:28:00.480 around the country involve time of use charging rates, whether just for residential energy 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.960 as a whole or for charging in particular. 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.160 Since the cars have the ability to program a charge start time, folks can still plug in right 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.960 when they get home from work but the car won't start charging until 10 p.m. say 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.360 when their electricity gets cheaper and it won't strain our grid so much. 00:28:13.360 --> 00:28:18.520 There are other incentive programs that are being tested out to kind of meet those needs 00:28:18.520 --> 00:28:22.840 such as utilities might do the electrical upgrade or buy a home charger for somebody 00:28:22.840 --> 00:28:27.240 with the agreement that they won't charge say between 5 and 8 p.m. 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:28.720 or other peak hours as determined. 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.880 So as electrical vehicle adoption increases and we kind of foresee based 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:37.000 on the trajectory of point where that might become a pertinent issue or consideration 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:42.040 for us, we will kind of communicate that to you all and continue doing our research 00:28:42.040 --> 00:28:47.040 and begin testing perhaps a pilot program down the line if we deem it appropriate to see 00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:50.880 which one of these methods might best meet the needs of our community 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.360 in a mutually beneficial manner. 00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:55.600 Yes sir. 00:28:55.600 --> 00:28:59.120 >> How would you deal with or have you thought about, I'm sure you have, 00:28:59.120 --> 00:29:03.240 what if a home has solar installation on it? 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:09.280 >> So that would certainly impact their usage patterns and their demand patterns in a way. 00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:13.400 We haven't looked at that specific case as far as the electrical ramifications of pairing 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.920 that at different times with electric vehicle charging. 00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:24.080 The concern there involves the decline in solar production in the evening 00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:26.560 as we reach our evening peak. 00:29:26.560 --> 00:29:31.480 So we distributed solar necessarily on an individual basis 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:35.320 and we haven't done any data on it but we would have to determine whether 00:29:35.320 --> 00:29:39.240 that would reduce the peak at all and protect the distribution system. 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:43.520 It's something to look at though. 00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:47.920 So in summary, given the direction of the sustainability plan to take these 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:53.720 into consideration, our electric vehicle plan looking forward addresses the short term needs 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:59.040 for charging access and infrastructure as well as looking forward with regards 00:29:59.040 --> 00:30:03.240 to the risk posed by high levels of electric vehicle adoption and ways to mitigate 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.080 that possible risk to our distribution system. 00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:10.160 We hope that in the long term, as electric vehicle adoption does rise, 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:15.000 we can find a mutually beneficial way for the utility to pair with our residents 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.400 and avoid those risks without penalizing those that drive electric vehicles. 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:23.720 So that's our plan. 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.360 >> Ed, I'm surprised you don't have more questions. 00:30:26.360 --> 00:30:31.000 >> I have a question. 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:38.240 Do you have any data on for any charging location what the use is compared 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:42.000 to the installed electrical capacity for that station? 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:46.760 >> We do not have any data really available regarding that. 00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:53.960 >> Oh, speaking of Ed, so the Tesla chargers are specific to Teslas 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:58.560 and presumably the city would not be installing any of those. 00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:05.480 So if everybody who's buying new electric vehicles bought a Tesla, 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:10.560 how would the city react to those charging needs? 00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:15.520 >> So the charging platforms that we plan to roll out, not Tesla brand, 00:31:15.520 --> 00:31:18.880 but they do have cross compatibility with Tesla chargers. 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.360 So Tesla drivers could make use of those stations. 00:31:22.360 --> 00:31:25.040 Tesla does provide a pretty strong financial incentive to a lot 00:31:25.040 --> 00:31:27.280 of their drivers to use their charging stations. 00:31:27.280 --> 00:31:31.480 That is just something that, you know, plans would need to be adjusted 00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:33.120 as electric vehicle adoption increases. 00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:37.000 If 90% of people are getting Teslas and Tesla keeps building out stations, 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.760 then our involvement might not necessitate developing as many stations. 00:31:40.760 --> 00:31:42.760 >> But they'd still be pulling from the grid. 00:31:42.760 --> 00:31:43.640 >> That is correct. 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:43.920 >> Yeah. 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:46.480 >> And that's where the role of the financial incentives 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.240 and rate structures would come into play more so. 00:31:51.240 --> 00:32:00.520 I know with the Tesla that they provide an adapter so that as a Tesla driver, 00:32:00.520 --> 00:32:04.000 you can use a blinker anyplace else because of the adapter. 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:08.240 So I wonder if there might be some leeway from the opposite side of that 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:13.640 where a person-- a Tesla adapter could be-- 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.360 a person could have a Tesla adapter so that even though they didn't have a Tesla, 00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:19.160 they could use a Tesla charging station. 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.600 I don't know if that's getting into the weeds a little bit I guess. 00:32:22.600 --> 00:32:26.760 >> I'm not aware of any system that allows for that. 00:32:26.760 --> 00:32:32.400 Tesla is notoriously kind of protective regarding their charging network, 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.920 but it's something that would theoretically technically be totally possible. 00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:39.880 >> Which is why we have to have non-Tesla charging stations 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.000 because I mean that's proprietary for them. 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:43.960 So, yeah. 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:45.880 >> You know Steve Jobs on that? 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:47.800 >> Yeah. Yes, they did. 00:32:47.800 --> 00:32:53.720 >> I have a Tesla and it took-- have taken a couple of trips, long trips 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.120 and the network is incredible, the charging network. 00:32:58.120 --> 00:33:01.520 And I talked to some people there at a restaurant 00:33:01.520 --> 00:33:04.360 where they had a-- in Ardmore, Oklahoma. 00:33:04.360 --> 00:33:07.480 And they loved it because the people would put their cars on the charger 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:15.160 and come in and have lunch, have, you know, get coffee and so there are other trickle 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:21.000 down economic benefits to this too that I think is real important to stress. 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.840 >> What do they think the adoption is going to be of the electric vehicles 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:28.680 in the next-- let's just say decade now? 00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:35.240 >> So, in the next decade, it will rely pretty heavily on when that tipping point is reached 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:40.080 that the upfront total cost of buying kind of a standard electric vehicle matches 00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:43.800 and then drops below that of a standard internal combustion engine vehicle. 00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:48.520 Most industry estimates suggest that that will happen sometime between now and 2025. 00:33:48.520 --> 00:33:52.880 But since virtually every automaker is at least rolling out one 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:55.560 or two electric vehicle models in the next couple model years, 00:33:55.560 --> 00:33:58.160 it will depend where those price points fall. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.280 If in the next couple years, electric vehicles are cheaper 00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:04.120 than an ICE internal combustion engine car, 00:34:04.120 --> 00:34:07.120 we might see really dramatic short-term adoption. 00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:11.280 If it takes until 2025 or 2026 for them to get cheaper, we might be looking at lower levels 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:13.920 of adoption within the decade. 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:18.000 But a lot of those projections estimate that at least regarding new car sales 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.280 by 2030, they're looking at somewhere near 10%. 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.760 >> Oh, okay. 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.080 >> I'm a big promoter of this stuff. 00:34:28.080 --> 00:34:33.280 What I found that the upfront cost for Tesla can be considerable depending 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:35.760 on how many bells and whistles you have. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:42.000 But the savings in maintenance costs, it's like our last meeting talking 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:46.240 about electric powered lawnmowers and how the maintenance costs were 00:34:46.240 --> 00:34:49.520 so drastically reduced that it made up for the cost. 00:34:49.520 --> 00:34:50.800 It's the same way with the Tesla. 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:57.920 And if you go in price of an SUV, it's got, you know, cup warmers and nose blowers 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.480 and everything possible. 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:03.880 >> Use that a lot. 00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:08.680 >> I mean, your expenses are guaranteed to stay constant 00:35:08.680 --> 00:35:10.600 and probably go up your maintenance costs. 00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:16.160 So in the long run, an electric vehicle, especially now with the extended ranges 00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:18.640 that they're coming out with, it's just amazing. 00:35:18.640 --> 00:35:20.240 So that's my plug for it. 00:35:20.240 --> 00:35:20.520 Thank you. 00:35:20.520 --> 00:35:22.040 >> They just don't-- they don't rattle as much. 00:35:22.040 --> 00:35:22.280 I mean, it's true. 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.080 >> They don't rattle? 00:35:23.080 --> 00:35:23.840 I have a-- 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:25.000 >> They don't put a lot of terror on them. 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:27.120 >> No, I have a thing on mine where I can actually-- 00:35:27.120 --> 00:35:27.800 >> Quiet. 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.800 >> Push a button and it sounds like a Ferrari. 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:41.160 [ Laughter ] 00:35:41.160 --> 00:35:46.880 >> I have a question about how we can quantify the actual number of electric vehicles here. 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:53.440 And does DMV categorize when it comes time to renew your license? 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:56.720 Does DMV ask if it's an electric vehicle? 00:35:56.720 --> 00:36:02.400 Is there anything in the registration process that ask you if it's an electric vehicle? 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:03.400 >> I don't think so. 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:09.000 And the reason I'm informed on that is because I keep up on transportation politics a lot. 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:09.040 >> No. 00:36:09.040 --> 00:36:10.200 >> Yeah, right. 00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:14.800 So, you know, that's another concern is that how are they going to pay for the roads 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:19.560 because right now we pay for our roads through fuel tax mostly and oil and gas taxes. 00:36:19.560 --> 00:36:23.160 So, you know, there's lots of talk about going to a mileage. 00:36:23.160 --> 00:36:27.720 So when you do register your vehicle at the DMV, you pay a fuel tax on your mileage 00:36:27.720 --> 00:36:29.040 if you drive an electric vehicle. 00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:31.160 >> Let's just taxi electrons. 00:36:31.160 --> 00:36:32.840 >> Yeah, right, taxi electrons. 00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:34.760 I mean, I don't know how they're going to do it. 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.720 Because people are going to figure out a way to get around it. 00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:39.640 They always have. 00:36:39.640 --> 00:36:43.360 It's like selling your vehicle and saying, "Well, I've sold it for 1500 bucks." 00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.240 When you sold it for 5 grand. 00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:47.240 >> Charlie, did you have a question? 00:36:47.240 --> 00:36:48.920 >> I just had a comment. 00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:53.360 One, it sounds like some of your strategies are centered 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.720 around having DMV being somewhat involved in the business of charging. 00:36:58.720 --> 00:37:02.680 It seems to me that we would serve the public better. 00:37:02.680 --> 00:37:05.840 The logical places for this are all in the private sector. 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:12.440 Hotels, movie theaters, restaurants all seem to be really logical places that if 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.840 that infrastructure is in place, it's good. 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.160 And I would encourage you to consider rather than throwing rebates 00:37:19.160 --> 00:37:22.760 to the public sector or to the private sector, excuse me, 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:26.800 that you just make it easy to implement the system. 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:31.120 That there's a package in place and it has a minimum of approvals and details 00:37:31.120 --> 00:37:35.880 and zoning and building permits and things like that so that we've got those 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:41.080 in parking places where it makes sense to charge as opposed to trying 00:37:41.080 --> 00:37:44.920 to get the city to do it in public places. 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:48.240 The other benefit obviously being those places are paying 00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:51.560 or generating sales tax, property tax revenue 00:37:51.560 --> 00:37:54.480 and typically the private sector is going 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.720 to do things much more efficiently than the public sector. 00:37:57.720 --> 00:38:03.040 So that would be my encouragement is to get that into existing businesses 00:38:03.040 --> 00:38:07.760 or new businesses rather than city parks and libraries 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:10.160 and places that are exempt from those taxes. 00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:14.880 >> Yes, and that is something that some jurisdictions have been looking at. 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.240 One of the hurdles to that development is our jurisdictional monopoly 00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:21.440 on the sale of electricity within our service territory. 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:25.840 So that poses a lot of policy questions whether or not it is legal for private entities 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:29.640 to put in their own charger and charge by the kilowatt hour for charging services. 00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:30.600 But that's something-- 00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:33.280 >> If they're buying it and then selling it, right? 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.120 They still have to buy it from us. 00:38:35.120 --> 00:38:39.200 >> That is true and I'm not entirely versed on the policy aspects of that. 00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:45.160 Perhaps Mr. Littrick or Terry might be better able to speak to that but-- 00:38:45.160 --> 00:38:53.280 >> Yes, so we don't-- so in our service territory, 00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:56.000 we don't allow anyone to resell electricity. 00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:02.960 So for this-- for the public policy or the publicly accessible private chargers, 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.600 all of those chargers that you go use are at no charge. 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:09.120 So the businesses are using them to get people in there. 00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:11.800 So that power that we're selling them is their standard rate 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:13.440 that their power is going through. 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:17.040 They're not reselling that to their customers. 00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:20.760 >> Is there a conversation going forward about that issue? 00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:25.400 >> There could be but that's a can of worms that we have to think 00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.240 about before we open that up is allowing people 00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:31.400 to resell power in our service territory. 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:37.720 >> What would be the can of worms with respect to fixing electric vehicle charging? 00:39:37.720 --> 00:39:40.880 >> Obviously reselling is a different matter but I'm just talking 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.760 about the EV charging issue getting the city ordinance or-- 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:46.880 is it a state ordinance or a city ordinance? 00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.360 >> I believe that would be a state ordinance. 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:52.960 That'd be for the PUCT and that'd be a state law. 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:56.000 >> Surely, it wouldn't be hard to get that fixed. 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:59.520 >> That's the PUCT says we can't resell or people can't resell-- 00:39:59.520 --> 00:40:00.400 >> Correct, correct. 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.080 That's a-- that's put in place to protect the utilities. 00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:07.640 And I don't think we want to do that. 00:40:07.640 --> 00:40:08.480 >> Yeah. 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:09.800 >> I'm not talking about in general. 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:14.040 I'm talking about public-- charging of public-- of electric vehicles. 00:40:14.040 --> 00:40:18.240 >> But then I think we'd be in a position 00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:25.560 where you would have maybe land some tenants, so some landowners or property owners 00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:27.760 that are, you know, paying electricity at a rate 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.640 and then really jacking that rate up to their tenants. 00:40:31.640 --> 00:40:33.040 >> That's my-- that was my next question. 00:40:33.040 --> 00:40:37.960 I was about to say there are some all bills paid apartment complexes and-- 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:38.360 >> Correct. 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:39.160 >> -- technically they're selling-- 00:40:39.160 --> 00:40:40.600 >> That's how they get around that, yes, sir. 00:40:40.600 --> 00:40:40.960 Yes, sir. 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:46.720 >> My caveat would be for the purposes of vehicle charging, that is a different-- 00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:47.600 >> In public places. 00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:48.200 >> I agree. 00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:50.920 We don't want to open that up. 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:54.960 But for charging of vehicles, that's kind of a no-brainer. 00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.720 I can't envision any reason to oppose that part of resale. 00:41:00.720 --> 00:41:06.560 >> I think what we could probably do so there's some hardware issues there. 00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:10.440 So if we had all of these charging stations that were individually metered, 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.920 we could easily set up a rate that would promote the EV charging. 00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:16.920 So that's something that we'll look into. 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:21.120 The issue is a lot of these chargers aren't metered individually. 00:41:21.120 --> 00:41:25.280 So the power that we're selling them is flowing through their main meter on their business. 00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:29.560 There's not an individual meter on the charger itself. 00:41:29.560 --> 00:41:31.320 >> Why is that a problem? 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.800 >> Well, then the rate we'd give them, we don't know if what the power is going 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.720 to the building or is it going to the charger. 00:41:37.720 --> 00:41:38.840 So if we wanted to set up a-- 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:40.480 >> Why do we need to have a special rate? 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.240 >> If we wanted to set up a special rate, I thought that was your question. 00:41:43.240 --> 00:41:46.840 If you wanted to set up a special rate to encourage the-- these chargers-- 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:53.240 >> No, to make it easier, the administrative hassle, the building permits, the zoning clearances, 00:41:53.240 --> 00:41:56.600 all the things that people fuss about city services. 00:41:56.600 --> 00:41:57.080 >> Oh, got you. 00:41:57.080 --> 00:41:57.640 Not on the rate side. 00:41:57.640 --> 00:42:03.240 >> Right side, I would discourage rebates and special prices. 00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:03.840 >> We can reach-- 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:05.680 >> Our prices should be what our prices are. 00:42:05.680 --> 00:42:07.600 >> I'm sorry, I misunderstood you there. 00:42:07.600 --> 00:42:08.560 We can reach out to them. 00:42:08.560 --> 00:42:14.560 We haven't heard any pushback from installers like the Tesla stations 00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:17.600 and the larger stations do take some electrical infrastructure. 00:42:17.600 --> 00:42:20.480 But we really haven't heard a big pushback on-- 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:25.520 from the development community on any hurdles they have on getting those installed. 00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:30.720 If it comes to us, which would have the big say in that, yeah, we can take the-- 00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:35.680 not the easy road, but we can make sure that there's not any hurdles 00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:39.800 to these businesses getting these chargers installed. 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:40.960 >> I misunderstood you too. 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:42.120 >> Yeah. 00:42:42.120 --> 00:42:43.720 >> Which probably means I misspoke. 00:42:43.720 --> 00:42:44.200 I apologize. 00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:47.760 >> It's a Monday morning after daylight savings time. 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:48.760 >> That's right. 00:42:48.760 --> 00:42:50.240 We're all still tired. 00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:50.880 >> Any other questions? 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.240 >> Other questions? 00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:53.880 All right. 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.120 I guess one thing we do need is direction. 00:42:56.120 --> 00:42:59.640 So we are taking this on to the council. 00:42:59.640 --> 00:43:02.520 So just any recommendations you might have? 00:43:02.520 --> 00:43:04.800 >> So consensus, I-- 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:06.840 >> Sounds like you guys are ahead of the game here. 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:07.120 >> Yeah. 00:43:07.120 --> 00:43:08.080 >> I appreciate that. 00:43:08.080 --> 00:43:08.480 >> Okay. 00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:12.200 >> Yeah. And I'm happy to see that it's being used. 00:43:12.200 --> 00:43:14.800 So if it wasn't being used, I'd have a different-- 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.800 >> And with the new system, we'll have access to that so the-- 00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:21.080 we can start to gather the data that we're lacking. 00:43:21.080 --> 00:43:24.440 It's just the blink system is very proprietary to them. 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.040 We're not able to see other than kilowatt hours used in a month. 00:43:28.040 --> 00:43:29.480 Once we get this new system, 00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:31.560 we'll be able to see the individual users. 00:43:31.560 --> 00:43:34.000 They can track them and then that's-- 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:38.520 you asked about Austin and their flat rate 00:43:38.520 --> 00:43:40.360 and San Antonio's flat rate. 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:43.320 They're doing that at a loss but they're getting the data. 00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.280 So that's why they're-- that's why they're-- 00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.320 >> They're promoting the program that way. 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.480 >> The data is worth more to them 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:50.640 than a little bit of electricity. 00:43:50.640 --> 00:43:53.320 >> One more question and this is regarding the TURP 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:54.280 and it's just occurred to me 00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:57.600 that in the past we haven't used TURP for the city. 00:43:57.600 --> 00:43:59.280 Is the reason that we're able to use TURP is 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.680 because it's DME and it's a public-- and it's a utility? 00:44:02.680 --> 00:44:04.040 >> I'll have to-- 00:44:04.040 --> 00:44:05.480 >> Because we were unable to-- 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:07.080 it's my understanding that we were unable to use it 00:44:07.080 --> 00:44:11.240 as a city to buy equipment in the past, the TURP grants. 00:44:11.240 --> 00:44:12.280 >> Was that a draft? 00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:13.080 >> Yeah. 00:44:13.080 --> 00:44:16.800 [ Pause ] 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.040 >> So I'm not necessarily familiar with the past history 00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:21.440 of the TURP program. 00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:22.800 Myself and one of the other analysts 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.480 at the energy services team attended a TCEQ workshop 00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:27.880 on the TURP grant and it was very clear 00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:32.640 and made abundantly clear that public utilities as well as cities 00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:34.600 and municipalities themselves are eligible 00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:36.320 at least for the alternative fueling facilities. 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:38.080 >> At least for the-- 00:44:38.080 --> 00:44:40.360 >> Sorry, this aspect of the TURP grants. 00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:41.720 >> The electrical part? 00:44:41.720 --> 00:44:41.960 >> Yes. 00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:42.760 >> Portion then, okay. 00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:44.080 All right. 00:44:44.080 --> 00:44:47.640 That's probably-- yeah, that's probably a question for fleet anyway. 00:44:47.640 --> 00:44:48.440 Thank you. 00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:51.920 >> One final comment, you outlined several alternatives there 00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:54.080 that were good and as you go forward, 00:44:54.080 --> 00:44:58.600 I would just encourage you to pursue all of those alternatives 00:44:58.600 --> 00:45:02.400 as you think this thing through and not get 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.920 on one track necessarily 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:07.600 because technology change is pretty quick in this area. 00:45:07.600 --> 00:45:08.560 >> Yes, sir. 00:45:08.560 --> 00:45:10.280 It's a very fast-moving industry. 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:13.320 >> All right, so consensus is to move forward as presented. 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:14.280 Is that correct? 00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.080 Okay. All right. 00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:16.680 >> Thank you very much. 00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:19.360 >> Thank you, Chase. 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:20.920 Well, that is the agenda. 00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:23.040 Do we have a motion to-- 00:45:23.040 --> 00:45:25.720 >> Adjourn, please. 00:45:25.720 --> 00:45:26.240 >> Thank you. 00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:29.000 [ Laughter ] 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:31.080 Quit came to mind and I knew that wasn't right. 00:45:31.080 --> 00:45:32.440 [ Laughter ] 00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:33.000 >> That's fine.