1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,680 Okay, it is nine o'clock and we do have a quorum, so let's call to order the March 9th, 2020 public utilities board meeting for the City of Denton. 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,600 The first items are the consent agenda. 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:24,440 Does any board member wish to pull one of the items of A through G? 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,600 >> I'd like to look at item F. 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,760 >> Item F, any other items? 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:37,040 We have a motion to approve A through E and item G. 7 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,560 >> So moved. 8 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,160 >> Second. 9 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:44,580 >> All in favor, say aye. 10 00:00:44,580 --> 00:00:45,080 >> Aye. 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,960 >> Okay, item F. 12 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,560 >> Terry Gator, fleet superintendent. 13 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:10,880 >> Yeah, Terry, first of all, I want you to know I intend to vote to approve this, but I wanted to call out a statement made in the write-up. 14 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:18,200 It says the great all is nearing the end of its useful life, incurring excessive maintenance costs and increased downtime. 15 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:24,640 To me, that statement is like saying it costs too much and it breaks down all the time. 16 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,400 Therefore, give us a new one. 17 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,040 That doesn't tell us much. 18 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,920 Now, you made a very good presentation last time we were here. 19 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:39,920 You have a method to assign a number to the severity of each piece of mobile equipment. 20 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:46,840 I would recommend that we stop writing sentences like this in here, 21 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:52,760 incurring excessive maintenance costs and increased downtime in this description. 22 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,400 And instead maybe attach a one page, even a half page, it doesn't have to be a novel, 23 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,440 a summary of your method of evaluating the status of each piece of mobile equipment. 24 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:14,880 So that would tell us quantitatively where this thing stacks up instead of excessive maintenance and increased downtime. 25 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:24,960 And also, in this particular case, you're buying a new piece of equipment that's got different design features than the old one. 26 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,160 So there's some rationale for that also, so that's all I have. 27 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,480 >> So you don't have a question? 28 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,320 >> It was a statement. 29 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,200 >> It was a statement, okay. 30 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,400 >> And a suggestion. 31 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:39,760 >> Okay, and a suggestion. 32 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:45,560 >> Yes, that we get away from the practice of routinely saying, 33 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,840 we need a new one because it costs too much and it breaks down all the time. 34 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:55,560 That needs to be quantified better, and he has a way to do that. 35 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:56,240 >> I know. 36 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:56,740 >> Yeah. 37 00:02:56,740 --> 00:03:00,880 >> So is that direction from the board, is that what the consensus from the board is? 38 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,760 >> Is that consensus from the board to have the criteria? 39 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,040 >> I think it's a good idea to see if he helps explain things better. 40 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:16,060 >> Because he did do the entire presentation last time, and it was, I mean, say, this falls in this category, and that's why we chose this, and it's just reliable. 41 00:03:16,060 --> 00:03:16,560 >> All right. 42 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,160 >> Thank you. 43 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:19,800 >> Do we have a motion to approve this item? 44 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:25,220 >> Second. 45 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:26,480 >> All in favor, say aye. 46 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:27,000 >> Aye. 47 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:27,800 >> Aye. 48 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,300 >> [INAUDIBLE] 49 00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:32,200 Items for individual consideration. 50 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,840 >> Consider the approval of the MINS from the February 24th, 2020 board meeting. 51 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,320 Are there any changes or corrections? 52 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,320 >> If none, I'll move approval. 53 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:44,640 >> Do we have a motion to approve? 54 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,520 Do we have a second? 55 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:46,640 >> Second. 56 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,200 >> All in favor, say aye. 57 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:48,920 >> Aye. >> Aye. 58 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,520 >> Any opposed? 59 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,040 No. 60 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,320 >> Assistance. 61 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,000 >> Very quick. >> Yeah, yeah. 62 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,040 >> Good morning, members of the board. 63 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,560 In the ACM update, really the only thing to really cover with you all is the, 64 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,160 environmentally preferable purchasing memo and resolution. 65 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:11,280 I think Mr. Stowe had asked that at our last meeting, and so it's been included for your review. 66 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,400 If you've got any questions, I believe there is someone for purchasing here, in the back, way in the back. 67 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,960 And so we'll be happy to answer any questions we can if there are any. 68 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,520 >> Do you have any questions? 69 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,600 No? >> Yeah, I have a question. 70 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:35,320 I went back and I actually looked up environmentally preferable purchasing in the handbook. 71 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,920 The purchasing handbook that's online. 72 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:44,640 And I was just wondering if there are any guidelines or 73 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:51,880 specific areas that you all look at, I know that's a very broad question. 74 00:04:51,880 --> 00:05:00,200 But this is what the memorandum here with the actual ordinance 75 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,960 really doesn't say anything about what the city's 76 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,120 goals are in regard to environmentally preferential purchasing. 77 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,400 And I don't know if this is going to be addressed in the update of the sustainable dentin plan that's coming in April. 78 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,080 But I just wondered if now, if you all actually have codified set of criteria for 79 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,840 determining whether or not something is environmentally, pardon me, preferable. 80 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:37,400 >> Right now we're actually working with Catherine Barnett with sustainability to put together a policy for that. 81 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,000 There are multiple policies already made within each department. 82 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:47,480 Like Fleet has their own policy, and we're going to work to kind of put all that together here soon. 83 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:48,160 >> Great, thank you. 84 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:48,660 >> Yes. 85 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,440 >> Nothing else to report. 86 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,560 >> Nothing else to report, all right. 87 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:03,020 Including items, does the board member wish to have anything on a future agenda or? 88 00:06:03,020 --> 00:06:04,080 >> I do. 89 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,200 >> Yes, George. 90 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,280 >> In early February, the city of Denton lost a rather substantial lawsuit 91 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:16,480 involving wrongful termination and involving different utilities, employees. 92 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:25,900 To the extent that it affects this group, I'm thinking that we should be briefed on the results of that lawsuit, 93 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:33,600 the implications of that lawsuit, and that may need to be in closed session or open session. 94 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,880 But I would like to see that happen. 95 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,320 >> And Larry, that would be in closed session, correct? 96 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,400 >> Yes. 97 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:42,440 >> Personnel issue. 98 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,440 >> Yeah. >> I thought that was still in appeal. 99 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,160 We will need you in closed session. 100 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,440 >> Yeah. >> Okay, yeah. 101 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,240 >> All I know is what I read in the paper. 102 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,720 >> That's why I worded it correctly, it was not good. 103 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,220 >> Yeah. 104 00:06:55,220 --> 00:07:01,800 >> And then my second issue is a question. 105 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,600 When will this group review financial statements for 106 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,720 Denton Municipal Utilities next? 107 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,640 >> Are you speaking about just the budget process? 108 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,160 >> Yeah. 109 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,200 >> I was talking about actual rather than- >> You mean the results, quarterly results. 110 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,160 >> Quarterly results, yeah. 111 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:24,120 >> Let me have David Gaines come up, because those are generated from finance, 112 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,040 and those can be included in an upcoming report. 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,920 >> [INAUDIBLE] 114 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,480 >> Well, there's multiple options where you'll see them. 115 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:37,400 First being the quarterly reports that we submit to council into the PUB as we 116 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,320 wrap up the quarterly financials, usually a couple months after the quarter end. 117 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,680 So you'll see them there. 118 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,640 Obviously, we're about to kick off the budget process. 119 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,200 Those throughout the budget process will have detailed financials of what happened 120 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,360 last year, where we are, year to date this year. 121 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,920 As we talk about the decisions to make moving forward. 122 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,640 With the DEC specifically, obviously, we have the DEC report that comes out. 123 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,680 That'll be on the next PUB's ACM update. 124 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,640 So, numerous steps along the way, but I guess as far as the actual financials of 125 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,280 where we are, we have our quarterly report that we produce every quarter and 126 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:07,720 that will come to PUB. 127 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,480 >> Okay, I think I've been on the, pardon me. 128 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,120 >> And that'll be April, right? 129 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,440 The March 31st. 130 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,280 >> Right, so we had to take a little bit of time to get ready as we close the 131 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,520 votes, but yeah, following them. 132 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,360 >> I guess my question is, I think I've been on this group for more than a quarter 133 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,680 now and haven't seen one of those distributed yet to the PUB. 134 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:29,420 >> Quarterly report. 135 00:08:29,420 --> 00:08:34,520 >> We've seen dashboards. 136 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,040 >> Sure. 137 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,960 >> But not the actual. 138 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,800 >> Well, our quarter report is online right now and I believe we've brought it to PUB. 139 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,440 We'll go back and check and make sure that it can. 140 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,080 >> That is good to have, sure. 141 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,580 >> Great. 142 00:08:47,580 --> 00:08:50,700 >> Thank you. >> Thank you. 143 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:51,760 >> That's it? 144 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,920 All right, then our next item is a work session. 145 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,440 Receive a report and hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding DM&E's 146 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,720 proposed electric vehicle charging infrastructure strategy. 147 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,880 >> Good morning, PUB members. 148 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,200 Chris Ludrick, the executive manager of energy services here to introduce 149 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,380 a presentation we put together for you for some EV charging station options. 150 00:09:16,380 --> 00:09:21,160 In 2013, DM&E placed some charging stations, 151 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,760 some blink charging stations at the North Lakes Library, North Lakes Park, 152 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,840 South Lakes Library, South Lakes Park, a couple of DM&E, and 153 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,200 I believe one other location, no other location, so. 154 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,720 So anyway, so I'm here to introduce Chase. 155 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,280 So Chase is kind of new to our group. 156 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,480 He's our EV specialist, so he's been tasked with putting this presentation 157 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,800 together and he'll give you some options for upgrading the chargers that we have. 158 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,800 And the state that they're in, and kind of the justification for that. 159 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,320 And finally, he'll end with a kind of looking forward. 160 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,920 Electric vehicles are gonna be a big challenge for the utilities going forward. 161 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,560 So you'll see some of the predictions as the adoption rate increases. 162 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,360 They could put a strain on our distribution system that we have to be ready four 163 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:09,240 years in advance. 164 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,080 So we're not ready to tackle that issue today. 165 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,560 The utilities are still trying to come up with some ideas about how to handle 166 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,680 that potential electrical load in the future. 167 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,920 And how do you get that to an off peak time? 168 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:29,760 And how do you make sure that it doesn't break your distribution system or 169 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,160 put too much stress on it? 170 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,760 So with that, I'll introduce Chase Whitman and after that, after he's done, 171 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,280 we'll stand for any questions you may have. 172 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:45,280 [BLANK_AUDIO] 173 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,960 >> Good morning, PEB members. 174 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,280 Like Mr. Lutrick mentioned, my name is Chase Whitman. 175 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,920 I'm here with the DME Energy Services Team, 176 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,560 presenting our electric vehicle strategy. 177 00:10:54,560 --> 00:11:00,440 The sustainability plan gives direction to develop an electric vehicle strategy 178 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,480 to address short and long term infrastructure and 179 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,200 charging needs as electric vehicle ownership expands. 180 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,160 So in conjunction with the sustainability team, 181 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,520 we have developed a four phase forward looking electric vehicle strategy 182 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,800 to address those short term needs with regard to services that we provide and 183 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,240 access to electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 184 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,600 As well as look forward and address the long term infrastructure needs and 185 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,560 risks that might come about with increased levels of electric vehicle adoption. 186 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:35,320 Our financial premise moving forward is to provide all of these public charging 187 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,840 services in a manner that recovers the cost of providing that service. 188 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,880 The majority of the time, that will mean that the rate that is billed to customers 189 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,480 using our publicly available charging infrastructure will be designed to 190 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,560 both cover the ongoing cost of providing that service as well as within a reasonable 191 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,680 time frame recover the capital expenditures necessary to implement that infrastructure. 192 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,920 In the long term, our priority is to encourage charging behavior that won't 193 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,400 compromise the distribution grid. 194 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:09,440 Projections vary pretty widely on the subject since the industry of electric 195 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,120 vehicles is quite young and changing very rapidly. 196 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,680 But estimates from the Department of Energy find that medium to high levels of 197 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:20,800 electric vehicle adoption, which in their projections are about 20 to 30% penetration 198 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,120 by 2050, have the potential to increase residential electricity demand by 20 to 199 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,080 38% in the coming decades. 200 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,120 Without incentives to do otherwise, 201 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,520 most electric vehicle drivers plug their vehicle in immediately upon return home 202 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,160 from work, coincident with our peak on the distribution system as it is. 203 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,440 And such a dramatic increase in our peak electricity demand could have substantial 204 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,680 impact to the distribution system that we want to plan for and mitigate. 205 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:51,800 So our plan has four phases, as I mentioned a minute ago. 206 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,600 The first three phases focus on the short to medium term issues of access to charging 207 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,120 and services that we provide at DME through the upgrading of our existing 208 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:05,000 chargers, establishing a rebate program to share the costs with the private sector 209 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,880 to build out electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 210 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,360 And to expand the city owned infrastructure where necessary. 211 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,880 The fourth phase of our plan is that long term outlook regarding developing 212 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,880 a program to encourage charging behaviors that will not compromise the distribution 213 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,400 system and find a mutually beneficial arrangement to meet those needs for 214 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,960 our customers that will want to drive electric vehicles. 215 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,400 As well as take care of our infrastructure. 216 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,840 So the first phase of our plan, 217 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,440 the modernization of our existing charging infrastructure network. 218 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:40,360 Primarily focuses on the upgrade to a modern charging platform of our existing 219 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,160 blink stations that Chris mentioned. 220 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,960 As well as looking at the possible installation of a DC fast charger for 221 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,560 public use along I-35 located at our Pocker's Page substation. 222 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,120 The Texas Emissions Reduction Plan underway from the Texas Commission on 223 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,320 Environmental Quality offers grants that can fund up to 50% of the cost of 224 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,480 alternative fueling projects for vehicles with electric vehicle charging 225 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,160 being one of the focuses there. 226 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,720 So we are looking to take advantage of those funding opportunities. 227 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:14,360 So as mentioned a couple minutes ago, our current charger locations that are 228 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,080 available to the public are at North Lakes Park, North Branch Library, 229 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,520 South Lakes Park, and South Branch Library. 230 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,600 As it stands to date since 2013, the chargers at the North locations have 231 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,720 accounted for approximately 85% of charger use over time. 232 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,720 Due to the data limitations and the information that is provided to us on 233 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,560 charger use, we can't really predict or 234 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,600 make a determination what we think the cause of that is. 235 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,160 So we're looking to continue gathering data and perhaps discern more about why 236 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,360 that distribution settles the way that it does. 237 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,720 >> Can I ask, so that means people are using it? 238 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:50,760 >> Yes, people are using it. 239 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,160 >> Okay, all right. 240 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,160 >> When, in 2013 when the chargers were installed, usage was not very high and 241 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,680 not very many people had electric vehicles. 242 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,040 The charging utilization has been increasing pretty dramatically over time. 243 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,640 But that being said, 244 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,320 electric vehicles still account for less than 5% of vehicles. 245 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,200 So the thing, there isn't a line around the block to use the things, but 246 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,000 it's increased. 247 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:19,080 So the installation of modern platform dual port charging infrastructure 248 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,520 at each of those locations, so 249 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:26,240 replacing the existing single port chargers that were installed in 2013 with 250 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,440 one dual port charger on a modern platform to meet those charging needs and 251 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,040 keep charging capabilities and capacity approximately the same, 252 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,280 will cost approximately $15,600 between purchase of the new chargers and 253 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,000 installation and then removal of the existing chargers. 254 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,000 We have the possibility for 50% funding of that project through the TURP grants 255 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,600 mentioned a minute ago. 256 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,800 Those applications for the grant program are due in the next couple of weeks. 257 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,720 Hopefully we will hear back sometime in March or April as to the status of those. 258 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,880 And then we'll come forward with hopes to gain authorization to use that grant 259 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,360 funding to proceed with that project. 260 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,080 In the short term, the rate that is charged for use of the chargers will 261 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,320 remain the current rate that is being billed from the existing platform, 262 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,680 just not to price shock anybody. 263 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,000 It's four cents a minute right now. 264 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:17,280 As it stands, that covers the ongoing costs of the infrastructure that was put 265 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,760 in place and as usage is changing pretty rapidly with those, so 266 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,320 we will gather some data, make some predictions and then determine on an ongoing basis. 267 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,320 Yes sir. 268 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,960 >> Four cents a minute, how did that equate to cost per kilowatt hour? 269 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,520 >> So the rate of power flow into the batteries 270 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,800 varies with the charge level of the battery. 271 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,960 So ones that are quite close to full, it's less kilowatt hours flowing. 272 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,800 The total charge time at the rate that these chargers charge is about four hours 273 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,920 from completely empty to completely full. 274 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,240 So that's about 10 kilowatt hours per hour, 275 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,640 given the average size of an electric vehicle battery. 276 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,960 So some math there, a sixth of a kilowatt hour per minute. 277 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:05,240 But the billing structure is not set to bill by the kilowatt hours. 278 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,280 I mentioned it bills on a per minute basis. 279 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,560 >> But on average about a sixth of a kilowatt hour per minute. 280 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,360 >> And we're charging four cents per minute to use the facility. 281 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:19,480 >> Yes, and with the existing platform, we do not have control over the price that 282 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,240 is billed that is set by the system operator, Blink, that installed them for us. 283 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,680 That's one of the reasons that we're looking to move to a different platform 284 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,440 that allows us to take some price control. 285 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,920 That opens up a lot of opportunities, whether it's once we've recovered 286 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,400 the capital cost of the chargers and there's only a need to cover ongoing costs, 287 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,760 perhaps a price reduction or ensuring that we can cover our costs. 288 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,120 There are some interesting programs that have been piloted by Austin Energy and 289 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,600 CPS Energy in San Antonio, where customers can pay just a flat rate on their monthly 290 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,160 bill for unlimited access to the public charging. 291 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,800 That's something that if we determined we would like to look into or pilot, 292 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,080 we'd have at least the flexibility with a new platform to look into. 293 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,720 >> Do you know what that dollar amount is, that flat rate? 294 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,080 >> At Austin Energy, I believe it is $60 a year. 295 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,580 >> Okay. 296 00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:14,760 >> So as mentioned here, just a brief summary and 297 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,840 overview of the four locations that we've got, as well as the cost per location, 298 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,480 to perform those upgrades. 299 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,160 As mentioned, that will be approximately $15,600 all in for the project. 300 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:34,480 The TURP grant program does place special emphasis on the build out of DC fast 301 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,960 charging infrastructure along the interstate corridors. 302 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:43,800 They feel that that is one of the motivations to encourage electric vehicle 303 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,440 adoption would be improved access, especially for people that are traveling 304 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,120 longer distance to not have to take several hours to charge back up. 305 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,080 So we do have one location of city owned property right along the interstate 306 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,400 frontage at our Pockers Page substation that we are looking to build a DC fast 307 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,480 charger to provide access there. 308 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,760 That location at the substation provides convenient access to the electric 309 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,720 infrastructure that would be needed to power a charger, 310 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,960 as well as some city property to actually provide parking. 311 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,760 With the project, total estimate cost for that would be about $75,000, 312 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,560 with the possibility of 50% funding from the grant program. 313 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,800 Our hope is that the rate there, if the project were to be implemented, 314 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:32,520 since the test case here is that those interstate locations gain not only usage 315 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,760 from the local community looking for a charge in a pinch, but also travelers 316 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:42,520 passing through on the interstate there, we hope the thesis being tested there 317 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,160 would be that spreading those costs across more people and transient chargers 318 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,600 would allow to charge a lower rate per kilowatt hour per minute of charging. 319 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:57,840 -Question, I know what a TURP grant is, but how it applies to this I don't understand. 320 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,280 Is there an exchange other than the purchase of the equipment? 321 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,120 Do you have to take something out? 322 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:07,840 Because in the past TURP grants were, I'll shut down my 1985 diesel and replace it 323 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,560 with a 2020 diesel, and then TURP funds a portion of that. 324 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,600 -So the TURP program beginning this year for the alternative fueling facilities 325 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,120 program funds not only the replacement of existing fossil fuel fueling facilities, 326 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:26,760 but the development of new construction for those alternative fueling facilities. 327 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,520 This is a project that would be highly dependent on the grant funding being awarded. 328 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,080 So when we learn about the status of that in the next couple months, 329 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,840 if we are awarded that grant money, we would build out a more comprehensive plan 330 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,320 and come forward to get direction and make a determination to move forward 331 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,000 with the project at that time. 332 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,760 The second phase of our plan involves the establishment of a rebate program 333 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:56,440 to share costs for the build out of electric vehicle charging infrastructure. 334 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,360 When electric vehicle drivers are surveyed, the most common places that they cite 335 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,720 a desire to have access to charging infrastructure are retail establishments, 336 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,080 restaurants, entertainment venues, places where they spend their leisure time. 337 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,120 Since perhaps intuitively most of those locations aren't owned by the city, 338 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:17,360 we do not have much flexibility to provide charging infrastructure at that locations. 339 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,800 So we feel that the most effective way to facilitate the development of that infrastructure 340 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,680 would be to share some of the costs there. 341 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,880 I understood that Cracker Barrel was putting them across the nation. 342 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,240 Do we have some at the Cracker Barrel around here? 343 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,240 I'm not aware of any at the Cracker Barrel. 344 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,040 There are a couple of places that have put in chargers as provision, 345 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,960 kind of as a complimentary service to their customers. 346 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,160 Cinemark here in Denton is one that comes to mind. 347 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,800 They just recently put in chargers. 348 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,600 So this is a behavior that you're seeing in very limited amounts as it stands. 349 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,520 The idea with a rebate or incentive program would be to further drive 350 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,240 the expansion of those types of networks. 351 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,960 Just a quick question. 352 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,360 You have Tesla with four locations. 353 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:06,000 I know there's six superchargers out just off 35. 354 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,360 Is that what's included in these four? 355 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,560 So that is each geographic address that holds chargers. 356 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,160 So like Southlake and? 357 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,760 So some of the Tesla locations, for example, 358 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,800 included here would be the chargers located at Razor Ranch 359 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,000 as well as the embassy suites, chargers. 360 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,680 And there are a couple other two locations on I-35 361 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,760 that have Tesla chargers available. 362 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,760 So this is just the physical addresses that have chargers present. 363 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,120 It's not the number of chargers, it's the address of the chargers. 364 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:35,040 OK, thank you. 365 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,480 Yes, sir. 366 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,120 So the focus here to attain cost recovery for this program, 367 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:45,480 at least the thesis that would need proving out over time, 368 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,320 would be that sharing those costs and providing that rebate, 369 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,800 those funds would be recouped over time through electricity sales 370 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,920 through the charger. 371 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,640 These chargers have, at least with the advancement of the technology, 372 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,680 about a five to 10-year useful lifespan before they become outdated. 373 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,240 Based on the usages that we see from our publicly owned chargers, 374 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,320 that is a sufficient time frame at those usage levels 375 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,160 to recover those costs through the electricity sales. 376 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,120 We plan to budget $20,000 for fiscal year 2021 377 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,960 to provide up to 10 rebates for the installation 378 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,400 of those level two chargers, 379 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520 sharing that cost at a rate of up to $2,000. 380 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,680 The average cost for a level two charger installation 381 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,280 is anywhere from $6,000 to $10,000, 382 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,480 so this would be in the 33% to 20% price range that we would cover 383 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,480 with the private entity providing the charge and covering the balance. 384 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,000 I just had a quick question. 385 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,520 What's a level two charger as opposed to other kinds of chargers? 386 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,680 So the electric vehicle charging infrastructure is ranked 387 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,840 based on the power output of the chargers. 388 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,000 So level one charging is considered to be a 120-volt kind of... 389 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,120 If you were to plug charging into the standard wall outlet in your house, 390 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,160 that takes about 16 hours for a full charge from empty. 391 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,040 Level two charging is 240-volt charging, 392 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,880 typically anywhere from 7 to 10 kilowatts of power 393 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,600 that can charge a vehicle from empty to full, 394 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,040 depending on the size of the vehicle's battery, 395 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,880 anywhere from three to six hours. 396 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:18,080 So is there a chance that level two is going to be obsolete in a year? 397 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,280 That seems unlikely given the electrical infrastructure limitations. 398 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,680 There is some build-out and was just mentioned previously 399 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,680 regarding DC fast chargers. 400 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,680 As it stands currently, those are about five to six times the cost 401 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:36,000 of level two chargers as well as much more intense infrastructure requirements 402 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,200 to provide the power that's needed to charge those. 403 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,720 So at least given the data that we have over the last few years across the nation, 404 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,960 level two build-out is occurring at a much, much higher level than DC fast charging. 405 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Chase, how fast is a fast charger? 406 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,800 So I apologize, I meant to mention that in the last slide. 407 00:24:53,800 --> 00:25:00,640 A fast charger can charge a vehicle from empty to full typically in 30 to 45 minutes. 408 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,440 So industry predictions, you know, kind of estimate that in the 30 to 40-year time frame 409 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,040 for mass EV adoption, fast charging would be the kinds of charges 410 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,040 that you see replacing gas stations on street corners. 411 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,920 However, like I mentioned previously, the infrastructure limitations 412 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,360 for those have not been dealt with yet. 413 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,720 >> So Buc-E's would have a whole bank of-- 414 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,080 >> Two or three hundred of them, I suppose. 415 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,400 >> Just checking. 416 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:32,080 >> Well, that would be a drain on our system. 417 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,120 >> So phase three of our plan involves the expansion 418 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:38,040 of the city's owned public charging network. 419 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,760 After a couple years of providing those rebates and facilitating the development 420 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:47,640 of privately-owned charging infrastructure, we will do some analysis, keep our eyes open 421 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,680 and engage with the community regarding the areas that they feel are being underserved 422 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,840 with that private investment if there is demand for electric vehicle charging 423 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,360 that is not being met through private investment. 424 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,280 That would be the types of situations that the city would look into building 425 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,160 out our city-owned infrastructure network. 426 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,720 A couple of places that come to mind are the public parking lots 427 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,120 around the downtown square area or neighborhood parks distributed through Denton, 428 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,680 particularly in areas with high renter populations if they don't feel 429 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,640 that their apartment complexes, what have you, 430 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,120 are providing the charging that they wish to have access to. 431 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:26,000 So the grant opportunities for electric vehicles and electric vehicle infrastructure are expanding 432 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,240 constantly, so we would always seek to leverage those whenever possible and share some 433 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,760 of those costs to provide those services throughout the city at at least cost. 434 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,680 Our target date to begin looking at where the rebate program has been successful 435 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:47,800 and where expansion of the publicly-owned network is necessary would be in the 2022-2023 timeframe 436 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,200 to see where those rebates have been utilized. 437 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,640 The fourth phase of our program takes a longer-term approach regarding infrastructure risk 438 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,200 that would arise with high levels of electric vehicle adoption. 439 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,520 As mentioned earlier, most EV drivers just plug their car in upon return home from work 440 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,800 without a second thought if they don't have an incentive to do otherwise, 441 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,800 a coincidence with our electric system peak. 442 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,760 In the event that even 20 or 30 percent of people begin driving, just on one street, 443 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,600 begin driving electric vehicles and five people, neighbors all come in and plug 444 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,760 in their car at the exact same time at 5 p.m., we'd be looking at risk of running 445 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,080 into reliability issues and outages potentially. 446 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,360 So as electric vehicle adoption increases and since we don't know the timeframe, 447 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:39,080 it would kind of be on an ongoing basis knowing when we need to be prepared for that. 448 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,520 But we plan to look at some of the methods that are being tested in the electric utilities industry 449 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,080 in order to incentivize people to shift their charging behaviors in a way 450 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,400 that isn't too inconvenient but also protects our infrastructure. 451 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,360 Some of the methods that have been met with success in pilot so far 452 00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,480 around the country involve time of use charging rates, whether just for residential energy 453 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,960 as a whole or for charging in particular. 454 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,160 Since the cars have the ability to program a charge start time, folks can still plug in right 455 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,960 when they get home from work but the car won't start charging until 10 p.m. say 456 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,360 when their electricity gets cheaper and it won't strain our grid so much. 457 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:18,520 There are other incentive programs that are being tested out to kind of meet those needs 458 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,840 such as utilities might do the electrical upgrade or buy a home charger for somebody 459 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,240 with the agreement that they won't charge say between 5 and 8 p.m. 460 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,720 or other peak hours as determined. 461 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,880 So as electrical vehicle adoption increases and we kind of foresee based 462 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,000 on the trajectory of point where that might become a pertinent issue or consideration 463 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,040 for us, we will kind of communicate that to you all and continue doing our research 464 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,040 and begin testing perhaps a pilot program down the line if we deem it appropriate to see 465 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,880 which one of these methods might best meet the needs of our community 466 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,360 in a mutually beneficial manner. 467 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,600 Yes sir. 468 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,120 >> How would you deal with or have you thought about, I'm sure you have, 469 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,240 what if a home has solar installation on it? 470 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:09,280 >> So that would certainly impact their usage patterns and their demand patterns in a way. 471 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,400 We haven't looked at that specific case as far as the electrical ramifications of pairing 472 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,920 that at different times with electric vehicle charging. 473 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:24,080 The concern there involves the decline in solar production in the evening 474 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,560 as we reach our evening peak. 475 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,480 So we distributed solar necessarily on an individual basis 476 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,320 and we haven't done any data on it but we would have to determine whether 477 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,240 that would reduce the peak at all and protect the distribution system. 478 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,520 It's something to look at though. 479 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,920 So in summary, given the direction of the sustainability plan to take these 480 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,720 into consideration, our electric vehicle plan looking forward addresses the short term needs 481 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,040 for charging access and infrastructure as well as looking forward with regards 482 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,240 to the risk posed by high levels of electric vehicle adoption and ways to mitigate 483 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,080 that possible risk to our distribution system. 484 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,160 We hope that in the long term, as electric vehicle adoption does rise, 485 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,000 we can find a mutually beneficial way for the utility to pair with our residents 486 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,400 and avoid those risks without penalizing those that drive electric vehicles. 487 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,720 So that's our plan. 488 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,360 >> Ed, I'm surprised you don't have more questions. 489 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,000 >> I have a question. 490 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:38,240 Do you have any data on for any charging location what the use is compared 491 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,000 to the installed electrical capacity for that station? 492 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,760 >> We do not have any data really available regarding that. 493 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:53,960 >> Oh, speaking of Ed, so the Tesla chargers are specific to Teslas 494 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,560 and presumably the city would not be installing any of those. 495 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,480 So if everybody who's buying new electric vehicles bought a Tesla, 496 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,560 how would the city react to those charging needs? 497 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,520 >> So the charging platforms that we plan to roll out, not Tesla brand, 498 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,880 but they do have cross compatibility with Tesla chargers. 499 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,360 So Tesla drivers could make use of those stations. 500 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,040 Tesla does provide a pretty strong financial incentive to a lot 501 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,280 of their drivers to use their charging stations. 502 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,480 That is just something that, you know, plans would need to be adjusted 503 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,120 as electric vehicle adoption increases. 504 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,000 If 90% of people are getting Teslas and Tesla keeps building out stations, 505 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,760 then our involvement might not necessitate developing as many stations. 506 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,760 >> But they'd still be pulling from the grid. 507 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:43,640 >> That is correct. 508 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:43,920 >> Yeah. 509 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,480 >> And that's where the role of the financial incentives 510 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,240 and rate structures would come into play more so. 511 00:31:51,240 --> 00:32:00,520 I know with the Tesla that they provide an adapter so that as a Tesla driver, 512 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,000 you can use a blinker anyplace else because of the adapter. 513 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,240 So I wonder if there might be some leeway from the opposite side of that 514 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,640 where a person-- a Tesla adapter could be-- 515 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,360 a person could have a Tesla adapter so that even though they didn't have a Tesla, 516 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,160 they could use a Tesla charging station. 517 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,600 I don't know if that's getting into the weeds a little bit I guess. 518 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,760 >> I'm not aware of any system that allows for that. 519 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:32,400 Tesla is notoriously kind of protective regarding their charging network, 520 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,920 but it's something that would theoretically technically be totally possible. 521 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,880 >> Which is why we have to have non-Tesla charging stations 522 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,000 because I mean that's proprietary for them. 523 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:43,960 So, yeah. 524 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,880 >> You know Steve Jobs on that? 525 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,800 >> Yeah. Yes, they did. 526 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:53,720 >> I have a Tesla and it took-- have taken a couple of trips, long trips 527 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,120 and the network is incredible, the charging network. 528 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,520 And I talked to some people there at a restaurant 529 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,360 where they had a-- in Ardmore, Oklahoma. 530 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,480 And they loved it because the people would put their cars on the charger 531 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:15,160 and come in and have lunch, have, you know, get coffee and so there are other trickle 532 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,000 down economic benefits to this too that I think is real important to stress. 533 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,840 >> What do they think the adoption is going to be of the electric vehicles 534 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,680 in the next-- let's just say decade now? 535 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:35,240 >> So, in the next decade, it will rely pretty heavily on when that tipping point is reached 536 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,080 that the upfront total cost of buying kind of a standard electric vehicle matches 537 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,800 and then drops below that of a standard internal combustion engine vehicle. 538 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,520 Most industry estimates suggest that that will happen sometime between now and 2025. 539 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,880 But since virtually every automaker is at least rolling out one 540 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,560 or two electric vehicle models in the next couple model years, 541 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,160 it will depend where those price points fall. 542 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,280 If in the next couple years, electric vehicles are cheaper 543 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,120 than an ICE internal combustion engine car, 544 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,120 we might see really dramatic short-term adoption. 545 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,280 If it takes until 2025 or 2026 for them to get cheaper, we might be looking at lower levels 546 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,920 of adoption within the decade. 547 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,000 But a lot of those projections estimate that at least regarding new car sales 548 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,280 by 2030, they're looking at somewhere near 10%. 549 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,760 >> Oh, okay. 550 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,080 >> I'm a big promoter of this stuff. 551 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,280 What I found that the upfront cost for Tesla can be considerable depending 552 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,760 on how many bells and whistles you have. 553 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:42,000 But the savings in maintenance costs, it's like our last meeting talking 554 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,240 about electric powered lawnmowers and how the maintenance costs were 555 00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:49,520 so drastically reduced that it made up for the cost. 556 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,800 It's the same way with the Tesla. 557 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:57,920 And if you go in price of an SUV, it's got, you know, cup warmers and nose blowers 558 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,480 and everything possible. 559 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,880 >> Use that a lot. 560 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,680 >> I mean, your expenses are guaranteed to stay constant 561 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,600 and probably go up your maintenance costs. 562 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,160 So in the long run, an electric vehicle, especially now with the extended ranges 563 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,640 that they're coming out with, it's just amazing. 564 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,240 So that's my plug for it. 565 00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:20,520 Thank you. 566 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,040 >> They just don't-- they don't rattle as much. 567 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:22,280 I mean, it's true. 568 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,080 >> They don't rattle? 569 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:23,840 I have a-- 570 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,000 >> They don't put a lot of terror on them. 571 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,120 >> No, I have a thing on mine where I can actually-- 572 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:27,800 >> Quiet. 573 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,800 >> Push a button and it sounds like a Ferrari. 574 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:41,160 [ Laughter ] 575 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:46,880 >> I have a question about how we can quantify the actual number of electric vehicles here. 576 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:53,440 And does DMV categorize when it comes time to renew your license? 577 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,720 Does DMV ask if it's an electric vehicle? 578 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:02,400 Is there anything in the registration process that ask you if it's an electric vehicle? 579 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,400 >> I don't think so. 580 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,000 And the reason I'm informed on that is because I keep up on transportation politics a lot. 581 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:09,040 >> No. 582 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,200 >> Yeah, right. 583 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,800 So, you know, that's another concern is that how are they going to pay for the roads 584 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,560 because right now we pay for our roads through fuel tax mostly and oil and gas taxes. 585 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,160 So, you know, there's lots of talk about going to a mileage. 586 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,720 So when you do register your vehicle at the DMV, you pay a fuel tax on your mileage 587 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:29,040 if you drive an electric vehicle. 588 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,160 >> Let's just taxi electrons. 589 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,840 >> Yeah, right, taxi electrons. 590 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,760 I mean, I don't know how they're going to do it. 591 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,720 Because people are going to figure out a way to get around it. 592 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:39,640 They always have. 593 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,360 It's like selling your vehicle and saying, "Well, I've sold it for 1500 bucks." 594 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,240 When you sold it for 5 grand. 595 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:47,240 >> Charlie, did you have a question? 596 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:48,920 >> I just had a comment. 597 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,360 One, it sounds like some of your strategies are centered 598 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,720 around having DMV being somewhat involved in the business of charging. 599 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,680 It seems to me that we would serve the public better. 600 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,840 The logical places for this are all in the private sector. 601 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:12,440 Hotels, movie theaters, restaurants all seem to be really logical places that if 602 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,840 that infrastructure is in place, it's good. 603 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,160 And I would encourage you to consider rather than throwing rebates 604 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,760 to the public sector or to the private sector, excuse me, 605 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,800 that you just make it easy to implement the system. 606 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,120 That there's a package in place and it has a minimum of approvals and details 607 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,880 and zoning and building permits and things like that so that we've got those 608 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:41,080 in parking places where it makes sense to charge as opposed to trying 609 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,920 to get the city to do it in public places. 610 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,240 The other benefit obviously being those places are paying 611 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,560 or generating sales tax, property tax revenue 612 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,480 and typically the private sector is going 613 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,720 to do things much more efficiently than the public sector. 614 00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:03,040 So that would be my encouragement is to get that into existing businesses 615 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,760 or new businesses rather than city parks and libraries 616 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,160 and places that are exempt from those taxes. 617 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,880 >> Yes, and that is something that some jurisdictions have been looking at. 618 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,240 One of the hurdles to that development is our jurisdictional monopoly 619 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,440 on the sale of electricity within our service territory. 620 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,840 So that poses a lot of policy questions whether or not it is legal for private entities 621 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,640 to put in their own charger and charge by the kilowatt hour for charging services. 622 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,600 But that's something-- 623 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,280 >> If they're buying it and then selling it, right? 624 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,120 They still have to buy it from us. 625 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,200 >> That is true and I'm not entirely versed on the policy aspects of that. 626 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:45,160 Perhaps Mr. Littrick or Terry might be better able to speak to that but-- 627 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:53,280 >> Yes, so we don't-- so in our service territory, 628 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,000 we don't allow anyone to resell electricity. 629 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:02,960 So for this-- for the public policy or the publicly accessible private chargers, 630 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,600 all of those chargers that you go use are at no charge. 631 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,120 So the businesses are using them to get people in there. 632 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,800 So that power that we're selling them is their standard rate 633 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,440 that their power is going through. 634 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,040 They're not reselling that to their customers. 635 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,760 >> Is there a conversation going forward about that issue? 636 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,400 >> There could be but that's a can of worms that we have to think 637 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,240 about before we open that up is allowing people 638 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,400 to resell power in our service territory. 639 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:37,720 >> What would be the can of worms with respect to fixing electric vehicle charging? 640 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,880 >> Obviously reselling is a different matter but I'm just talking 641 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,760 about the EV charging issue getting the city ordinance or-- 642 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,880 is it a state ordinance or a city ordinance? 643 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,360 >> I believe that would be a state ordinance. 644 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,960 That'd be for the PUCT and that'd be a state law. 645 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,000 >> Surely, it wouldn't be hard to get that fixed. 646 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,520 >> That's the PUCT says we can't resell or people can't resell-- 647 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,400 >> Correct, correct. 648 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,080 That's a-- that's put in place to protect the utilities. 649 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640 And I don't think we want to do that. 650 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:08,480 >> Yeah. 651 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,800 >> I'm not talking about in general. 652 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,040 I'm talking about public-- charging of public-- of electric vehicles. 653 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,240 >> But then I think we'd be in a position 654 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:25,560 where you would have maybe land some tenants, so some landowners or property owners 655 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,760 that are, you know, paying electricity at a rate 656 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,640 and then really jacking that rate up to their tenants. 657 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,040 >> That's my-- that was my next question. 658 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,960 I was about to say there are some all bills paid apartment complexes and-- 659 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:38,360 >> Correct. 660 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,160 >> -- technically they're selling-- 661 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,600 >> That's how they get around that, yes, sir. 662 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:40,960 Yes, sir. 663 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,720 >> My caveat would be for the purposes of vehicle charging, that is a different-- 664 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:47,600 >> In public places. 665 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,200 >> I agree. 666 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,920 We don't want to open that up. 667 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,960 But for charging of vehicles, that's kind of a no-brainer. 668 00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:00,720 I can't envision any reason to oppose that part of resale. 669 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:06,560 >> I think what we could probably do so there's some hardware issues there. 670 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,440 So if we had all of these charging stations that were individually metered, 671 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,920 we could easily set up a rate that would promote the EV charging. 672 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,920 So that's something that we'll look into. 673 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,120 The issue is a lot of these chargers aren't metered individually. 674 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,280 So the power that we're selling them is flowing through their main meter on their business. 675 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,560 There's not an individual meter on the charger itself. 676 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,320 >> Why is that a problem? 677 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,800 >> Well, then the rate we'd give them, we don't know if what the power is going 678 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,720 to the building or is it going to the charger. 679 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:38,840 So if we wanted to set up a-- 680 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,480 >> Why do we need to have a special rate? 681 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,240 >> If we wanted to set up a special rate, I thought that was your question. 682 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:46,840 If you wanted to set up a special rate to encourage the-- these chargers-- 683 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:53,240 >> No, to make it easier, the administrative hassle, the building permits, the zoning clearances, 684 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:56,600 all the things that people fuss about city services. 685 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:57,080 >> Oh, got you. 686 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:57,640 Not on the rate side. 687 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:03,240 >> Right side, I would discourage rebates and special prices. 688 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:03,840 >> We can reach-- 689 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,680 >> Our prices should be what our prices are. 690 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,600 >> I'm sorry, I misunderstood you there. 691 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,560 We can reach out to them. 692 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,560 We haven't heard any pushback from installers like the Tesla stations 693 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,600 and the larger stations do take some electrical infrastructure. 694 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,480 But we really haven't heard a big pushback on-- 695 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,520 from the development community on any hurdles they have on getting those installed. 696 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,720 If it comes to us, which would have the big say in that, yeah, we can take the-- 697 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:35,680 not the easy road, but we can make sure that there's not any hurdles 698 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,800 to these businesses getting these chargers installed. 699 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,960 >> I misunderstood you too. 700 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,120 >> Yeah. 701 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,720 >> Which probably means I misspoke. 702 00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:44,200 I apologize. 703 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,760 >> It's a Monday morning after daylight savings time. 704 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:48,760 >> That's right. 705 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,240 We're all still tired. 706 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:50,880 >> Any other questions? 707 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,240 >> Other questions? 708 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:53,880 All right. 709 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,120 I guess one thing we do need is direction. 710 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,640 So we are taking this on to the council. 711 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,520 So just any recommendations you might have? 712 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,800 >> So consensus, I-- 713 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,840 >> Sounds like you guys are ahead of the game here. 714 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:07,120 >> Yeah. 715 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,080 >> I appreciate that. 716 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:08,480 >> Okay. 717 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,200 >> Yeah. And I'm happy to see that it's being used. 718 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,800 So if it wasn't being used, I'd have a different-- 719 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,800 >> And with the new system, we'll have access to that so the-- 720 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,080 we can start to gather the data that we're lacking. 721 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,440 It's just the blink system is very proprietary to them. 722 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,040 We're not able to see other than kilowatt hours used in a month. 723 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,480 Once we get this new system, 724 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,560 we'll be able to see the individual users. 725 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,000 They can track them and then that's-- 726 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,520 you asked about Austin and their flat rate 727 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,360 and San Antonio's flat rate. 728 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,320 They're doing that at a loss but they're getting the data. 729 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,280 So that's why they're-- that's why they're-- 730 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,320 >> They're promoting the program that way. 731 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,480 >> The data is worth more to them 732 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:50,640 than a little bit of electricity. 733 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,320 >> One more question and this is regarding the TURP 734 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:54,280 and it's just occurred to me 735 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,600 that in the past we haven't used TURP for the city. 736 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,280 Is the reason that we're able to use TURP is 737 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,680 because it's DME and it's a public-- and it's a utility? 738 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,040 >> I'll have to-- 739 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,480 >> Because we were unable to-- 740 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,080 it's my understanding that we were unable to use it 741 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,240 as a city to buy equipment in the past, the TURP grants. 742 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:12,280 >> Was that a draft? 743 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:13,080 >> Yeah. 744 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,800 [ Pause ] 745 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,040 >> So I'm not necessarily familiar with the past history 746 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,440 of the TURP program. 747 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,800 Myself and one of the other analysts 748 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,480 at the energy services team attended a TCEQ workshop 749 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,880 on the TURP grant and it was very clear 750 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,640 and made abundantly clear that public utilities as well as cities 751 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,600 and municipalities themselves are eligible 752 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,320 at least for the alternative fueling facilities. 753 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,080 >> At least for the-- 754 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,360 >> Sorry, this aspect of the TURP grants. 755 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,720 >> The electrical part? 756 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:41,960 >> Yes. 757 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,760 >> Portion then, okay. 758 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,080 All right. 759 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,640 That's probably-- yeah, that's probably a question for fleet anyway. 760 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:48,440 Thank you. 761 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,920 >> One final comment, you outlined several alternatives there 762 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,080 that were good and as you go forward, 763 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,600 I would just encourage you to pursue all of those alternatives 764 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,400 as you think this thing through and not get 765 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,920 on one track necessarily 766 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,600 because technology change is pretty quick in this area. 767 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,560 >> Yes, sir. 768 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,280 It's a very fast-moving industry. 769 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,320 >> All right, so consensus is to move forward as presented. 770 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:14,280 Is that correct? 771 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,080 Okay. All right. 772 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:16,680 >> Thank you very much. 773 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,360 >> Thank you, Chase. 774 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,920 Well, that is the agenda. 775 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,040 Do we have a motion to-- 776 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,720 >> Adjourn, please. 777 00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:26,240 >> Thank you. 778 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,000 [ Laughter ] 779 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,080 Quit came to mind and I knew that wasn't right. 780 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,440 [ Laughter ] 781 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:33,000 >> That's fine.