WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.900 afternoon on this Wednesday April 8th 2026 at 5 o 2 p.m. I will call this work 00:00:08.900 --> 00:00:13.000 session of the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission to an order with 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:19.980 the quorum present. First item of business is comments on the consent 00:00:19.980 --> 00:00:31.740 agenda from the public. I don't see any the next item of business is clarification 00:00:31.740 --> 00:00:38.280 for items on the agenda. Any questions on the consent agenda from the 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:45.400 Commission? Yeah Commissioner McTuffin. Yes I have one question please. On the 00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:51.880 Triangle Engineering proposal of Jayombe Denton on the first one it says it's 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:59.080 going to be platted for a hotel. Do we have any idea about with a hotel chain? 00:00:59.080 --> 00:01:11.080 It is a Live Smart by Hilton. Live Smart. I was getting my points ready. Thank you. 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:23.900 All right. That brings us to our items for individual consideration. There are 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:32.380 three items that have been pulled and all three I believe are recommended 00:01:32.380 --> 00:01:37.660 approval now. Is that correct? I'm sorry two items the other one was the yeah so 00:01:37.660 --> 00:01:59.080 that's fp26008 which is 2h and fp26006 which is 2b. So 2f and 2b are now 00:01:59.080 --> 00:02:10.000 recommended approval. Any questions on those two? Okay we've got a lot of the 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.360 rest of the individual consideration items so instead of having the parade of 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:19.160 people saying that we recommend that these be postponed. I believe all 00:02:19.160 --> 00:02:22.600 of them are recommended postponed to the next meeting date. Can staff just confirm 00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:26.640 that other than those two that I called out? Is that right? Okay we'll give 00:02:26.640 --> 00:02:32.480 everybody eight more minutes of dinnertime if that's okay. 00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:40.520 Excuse me. Yes Commissioner McDuff. Chair, sorry if I may back us up. Please. Just for a 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:47.000 minute I had a question on the consent agenda if I may. Yeah. I am just looking 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:54.640 at that on the cover on the agenda caption it says phase five and then I go 00:02:54.640 --> 00:03:01.720 into the information sheet and it says third phase. Okay yeah I think that's on 00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:09.780 the Hickory Grove. Devco, Hickory Grove. It's Ms. Hines. I'm just wondering if it's a 00:03:09.780 --> 00:03:12.080 batch. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:21.520 Mia Hines senior planner that item is for Hickory Grove phase five. You said the 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:28.160 third phase is where? It's on the first page of the agenda information sheet and 00:03:28.160 --> 00:03:32.560 it says this in the background the last sentence this proposed final plan is for 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:37.000 the third phase of this development. That is that is an error. My apologies. This is 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:42.280 supposed to be for phase five. Okay and I believe it appears in the other in the 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:48.440 individual consideration item two. Okay. And except it's for phase six. Oh for 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:53.440 correction yeah this the item item 3B on the consent agenda is for phase five of 00:03:53.440 --> 00:04:05.680 Hickory Grove and then item 4D at P26-0003 is for phase six of Hickory 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:11.680 Grove. Okay and that same Ms. Hines that same I don't want to say error I've done 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:19.760 this batching before it says third phase as well. So Hickory Grove okay yeah those 00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:23.480 are the two corrections on that those are in error my apologies. Okay no no 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:45.240 worries thank you. Okay thank you Chair Pruitt. Certainly. Any other questions on 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.920 the items to be continued for the next meeting in the individual consideration. 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.520 Commissioner Dyer. So we're not going to have any discussion on any of these 00:04:54.520 --> 00:05:00.200 items. We we certainly can it's just there's I know we have we have a heavy 00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:05.680 agenda tonight. Yeah yeah. But I do I do have some questions on item number and 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:14.840 under individual consideration FP 26-0013 the equity engineering all of the 00:05:14.840 --> 00:05:28.440 apartments. Sure. Okay hi so just kind of looking at this information and looking 00:05:28.440 --> 00:05:36.760 at the background let me get back to that item on my screen. When you look at 00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:44.960 was it staff analysis in exhibit two. No it was not that one it was the exhibit 00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:55.000 one the agenda information sheet. You have in there the timeline that this 00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:03.720 started back in 2002 but then 2019 City Council did a zoning transition October 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:10.320 11th 2023 it came in front of P&Z for a special use permit and then it went to 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:17.240 City Council for the same thing and everything got approved and then in 2025 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:24.480 the an extension for an approval period for the specific use permit did the 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:31.920 owner of the land did they that owns it now to do all this development were they 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:39.560 also the owners back in 2019 when they asked for the zoning change. So the 2019 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:44.960 zoning transition you'll see in several of our staff and or this would be on the 00:06:44.960 --> 00:06:50.080 AIS is sort of one of those it's almost a standing point and what that is is this 00:06:50.080 --> 00:06:55.040 reflective of the adoption of the 2019 debt and development code at which point 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.360 our zoning districts transitioned from the 02 code to the 19 and so that's 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:05.000 that's reflective of what it did transition to at that time I don't I 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.200 don't know off the top of my head if the owner owned it in 2019 but they didn't 00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:12.760 request the zoning change of that that was a city request that was this that 00:07:12.760 --> 00:07:17.480 was the zoning transition that occurred with the adoption of the 2019 DDC they 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:24.640 then in in 23 did submit for that SUP our SUPs are valid for a period of two 00:07:24.640 --> 00:07:28.000 years unless you're substantially underway and that includes approval of 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.920 the final plots and CEPs due to financials and things like that they did 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:36.960 request that additional one-year extension the final plot does conform 00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:41.080 with the SUP generally there are minor comments that need to be addressed which 00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:46.560 is the reason for the plot extension tonight okay I guess I just have you know 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:50.200 I know we've talked a lot about apartments and I guess I just have a lot 00:07:50.200 --> 00:07:55.600 of concerns because looking at this area there are just so many apartment 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.760 developments over there and to me this would be a great opportunity to take 00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:09.480 this land and build different types of housing zero lot lines your townhouses 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:16.040 small single-family homes that are on smaller lots that might be at a similar 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:22.760 monthly purchase rate that maybe a rental would be at because I have been 00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:29.240 doing some research it just shows that when you have homeowners you know 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:34.640 property owners it tends to provide a more stable ability and I know because 00:08:34.640 --> 00:08:38.000 this is being recommended to be denied which is probably you know we'll 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:42.360 probably vote on that I'm sure we don't want to have a lot of discussion but I 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:47.360 guess maybe to give you guys a heads up or you know when talking to the 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:55.080 developer and that's why I wanted to relook at the stats that you had sent 00:08:55.080 --> 00:09:03.160 off back in January of your what we're seeing in single-family and townhome and 00:09:03.160 --> 00:09:06.800 I don't know what the percentage is because I couldn't you know I was trying 00:09:06.800 --> 00:09:12.760 to quickly find it but I'm seeing here in my research that really because you 00:09:12.760 --> 00:09:16.600 do it's not that we don't want or need to have any apartments they definitely 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.400 benefit the community and benefit citizens in a great way but I just 00:09:22.400 --> 00:09:31.840 wonder what our ratio mix of homeowners to rentals what that ratio is and it 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:38.000 basically talked about that in a city if you build too many apartments and you 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.320 don't have that ratio you really want to have 60 to 75 percent owner occupied 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:48.400 housing and anywhere from 25 to 40 percent rental housing and then if you 00:09:48.400 --> 00:09:53.160 exceed that 40 percent mark you can experience slower property value growth 00:09:53.160 --> 00:09:57.800 higher infrastructure demand which is you know what's what we're seeing like 00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:02.820 we're dealing with that right now greater budget pressure increased 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:06.880 political tension reduced long-term stability like there's all these 00:10:06.880 --> 00:10:11.880 negative things so I'm just concerned and I know this is one of the things 00:10:11.880 --> 00:10:16.480 I've asked for and I don't know we've had other than the report I don't know 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:23.440 that we've had a really in-depth dive but how many apartment units are in the 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.080 process of being under construction and how many are in the hopper to be built 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.800 because in landmark in that whole development I know that there are 00:10:33.800 --> 00:10:38.360 supposed to be mixed use of apartments and rentals both in the commercial space 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:46.560 on the east side of 35 and also on the west side I'm sorry on the east and the 00:10:46.560 --> 00:10:50.800 west side and everything with Quaver Ranch so I'm just kind of curious so 00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:55.640 sorry I know I know I'm on a tangent I'm sure I know Hillary probably doesn't want 00:10:55.640 --> 00:11:00.440 me to go on this but it's it is a bit it is just a big concern sure every time 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:07.100 apartments come up yes and just to remind us about Platts they do have the 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:13.660 approvals for the multifamily per the SUP the the plat is the legal subdivision 00:11:13.660 --> 00:11:17.640 of land and they are meeting those requirements largely apart from the 00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:23.200 exceptions noted in exhibit 2 so again they went through the channels and they 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:26.400 do have their approvals for that I do think these numbers have been accounted 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:29.840 for in some of the multifamily units we know that are coming online and some of 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:34.200 the data that has been circulated we can look into that but as far as the plat 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:38.760 goes this is zoned SC and it generally conforms to the lot dimensions and 00:11:38.760 --> 00:11:43.860 requirements for SC they do have some things to clean up but it is a plat at 00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:49.840 the end of the item so maybe this is where I need to be educated and I don't 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:55.840 know if it's in a setting like this or if it's in with you know one-on-one that 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.080 at what point because yes I understand if it's a plat and it meets everything 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:05.400 legally we have to approve it but at what point do does the city and does 00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:10.880 planning and zoning and a city council you know kind of say okay hold on enough 00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:16.320 on apartments let's let everything that we have sift out because what if we are 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:19.560 to the point where we're building too many so I don't know where that comes 00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:24.320 into play so I think that comes into play as we update our plans and we 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:36.120 consider zoning change requests because the there's no zoning tool to to pull 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:43.280 strings in the market such that you you can no longer do this full stop right we 00:12:43.280 --> 00:12:48.320 set the requirements for applicants we set the places where certain land uses 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:53.400 can occur based on the zoning and then we have a market system for developing 00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:59.640 homes and businesses but according to zoning multifamily could be duplexes 00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:04.040 triplexes and apartments so if you're trying to get more duplexes yeah and you 00:13:04.040 --> 00:13:11.000 do that it kind of comes with the apartment so that's that's not yeah 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:16.600 there's separate land uses allowed in a separate group of zoning districts I 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:25.400 guess my point is just that our function as I understand it to to envision the 00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:33.920 future of Denton and that mix of uses comes in when we revise our plans and 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:39.360 then when we approve zoning changes to be accordance to those plans not at the 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:46.200 platting stage is that yes so as a commission on a grander scale you know 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:50.640 that opportunity will come before you all when the city does things like city 00:13:50.640 --> 00:13:54.800 wide code updates like we did in 2019 where there's subsequent zoning changes 00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:57.360 that go along with that or when we update our comprehensive plan and 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.760 reimagine what the future land use map you know how that might need to change 00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:05.400 in certain areas but as part of your day-to-day function the only 00:14:05.400 --> 00:14:08.560 opportunity that you all would have for that is to weigh in on an individual 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:12.320 request for a zoning change or a specific use permit okay by the time 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:17.320 something reaches platting that that ship is sailed they have the land use 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:20.800 approvals that they have and can build any use that's permitted by right in 00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:24.840 that district the plat is strictly the subdivision of the property as Angie 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.680 mentioned and it is largely a ministerial function for the board okay 00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:33.040 and and I think our development community depends on that certainty where 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:35.960 they understand the things that are uncertain and they understand the things 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:43.080 that are certain as we heard a few weeks ago about the state updates last time 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:49.520 the several of the provisions now are in place because other communities did 00:14:49.520 --> 00:14:54.320 things like stick plats in the pocket for almost two years without taking action 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.840 on them just because they didn't like the land use and and that is when the 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:03.880 state stepped in to say you can't do that so is that my understanding 00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:08.040 consistent with yours the shot clock bill and the reason you see so many 00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:13.000 extensions as for the reasons you described yes thank you okay but I think 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.720 you had is that all on this item or you may have had some other individual 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.920 consideration items you wanted to see no that was that was really it on this on 00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:28.480 this side okay and again I'm not trying to skip anything I just I just don't want 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:38.700 to shortchange the work sessions no I know it's just yeah yeah okay and and 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:45.000 I'll just remind you know if there is something legitimate for a you know code 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:50.880 reason within the DDC that you find to have issue with a plat then that's a 00:15:50.880 --> 00:15:57.160 valid circumstance staff would request that you state what that specific reason 00:15:57.160 --> 00:16:03.160 is yeah so that they can trace back because for for future reasons they 00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:06.480 would need to refer back to that Commissioner McDuff is a quick comment I 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:11.040 did have another comment on individual consideration on the quiddity 00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:16.480 engineering in miss Angie's already sat down just a quick one but I will comment 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:25.040 that commissioners dyers concern it will not go away for the record 00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:31.720 miss Angie we I have a question here on my just a quick question I believe this 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:36.680 is for two lots of record and one is up for apartments the multifamily and one 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:41.120 is parkland could could you give us a little more information on the park land 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:48.880 sure so SUPs have a similar sort of negotiation opportunity that plan 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:53.760 developments have in which we're seeking that a use has been adequately mitigated 00:16:53.760 --> 00:17:00.720 in this case so as part of this the area that you see shaded is the largely lot 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.960 to some of this is on the the apartment tract but it'll remain as open space 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:11.760 they're currently it's codified in the SUP that's approved and adopted and the 00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:16.640 applicant is working with parks as well to bring forward a development agreement 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:22.120 that will dedicate that lower the second lot for future parkland for the 00:17:22.120 --> 00:17:25.400 extension of the pecan Creek trail so that will remain open space in 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:30.240 perpetuity per the SUP the plot will not be approved until that is done that's 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.520 one of the reasons it's on the agenda for an extension they need to work 00:17:33.520 --> 00:17:36.680 through parks board and City Council just like the plot needs to work through you 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.200 all and City Council so that area that you see shaded is for future parkland 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:51.040 it's codified in the SUP it'll remain that way all right thank you Angie 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:56.960 anything else on the the items to be postponed in the individual 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:08.120 consideration section okay thank you that brings us to sorry yes since we 00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:19.040 don't see the subdivision variances so often it's 4 ev 26 - 5 Matt if you 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:25.440 wouldn't mind showing us that and reminding us what we do with these 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:45.320 yeah good evening Commission Mapo Dean assistant planner here presenting a 00:18:45.320 --> 00:18:53.000 subdivision variance request V 26 - 0 5 so this subdivision variance is 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:58.600 associated with the replat that is on the agenda today and it's with a lot 00:18:58.600 --> 00:19:06.200 that currently is both in the Sea of Denton and in the ETJ that's about a 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:12.520 little short of a mile north of loop 288 so the reply is seeking to divide this 00:19:12.520 --> 00:19:18.600 property into two lots along city limits now the residential lot which is the one 00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:26.320 on the the right in the ETJ only has access to a public road via an existing 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:31.560 private access easement now there is a provision in the code that no more than 00:19:31.560 --> 00:19:37.600 three residential lots can take access to a public road via a private access 00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:49.360 easement now in cases where that's where there is a hardship for a person being 00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:57.280 able to subdivide they apply for this variance and so as part of the larger as 00:19:57.280 --> 00:20:02.920 the larger presentation there are four criteria that need to be considered in 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:09.080 order to approve a subdivision variance I go over those as more in detail in the 00:20:09.080 --> 00:20:15.560 in the presentation essentially staff is recommending approval of this variance 00:20:15.560 --> 00:20:24.120 which would then allow the plat to be approved due to hardships related to the 00:20:24.120 --> 00:20:30.080 particular layout of development in this area which has essentially led to this 00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:35.240 situation where this lot needs this variance before you today as mentioned I 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:41.480 run to more detail in the as in the public meeting but can answer any 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:51.320 questions at this time questions I have one just so that we help everybody 00:20:51.320 --> 00:21:00.400 understand I believe if this were an RR zoned lot within the city of Denton then 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:05.800 our five acre minimum for platting would apply however because it's in the ETJ we 00:21:05.800 --> 00:21:10.880 don't apply that minimum is that correct you do not apply that minimum to lots in 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:21.560 ETJ the zoning on the parshin that is in the city have a slide I believe it's our 00:21:21.560 --> 00:21:27.800 four doesn't meet those criteria I'm sorry I was thinking this was further 00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:34.840 north than it is it's it is pretty far north the city's there's a just a strip 00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:38.680 along North Locust that's within city limits that goes pretty far up there got 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:48.000 it Commissioner McDuff did I see a question mark okay anything else I don't 00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:01.160 see any as thank you Matt okay that brings us to our first public hearing 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:09.960 item 5a HL 26 - 1 good evening chair commission Cameron Robertson historic 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:16.840 preservation officer oh it's right on the screen perfect and this is HL 26 0 0 1 a 00:22:16.840 --> 00:22:23.280 this is a request for historic landmark designation at 1403 Ken Dove Drive it is 00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:29.840 a Mount Miller home design circuit 1959 it doesn't meet approval criteria one 00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:34.800 three four nine eleven and twelve which I'll go into more detail during the 00:22:34.800 --> 00:22:39.320 public hearing portion it is zone residential three it is a rental 00:22:39.320 --> 00:22:44.400 property as well it does mean our done 2040 comprehensive plan goal community 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.320 character to as well as our 2019 historic preservation plan goal number 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:54.440 one policy 1.3 which looks at prioritizing eligible properties and 00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:59.280 areas for landmarking and historic districts so staff is recommending 00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:03.120 approval as it complies with the criteria criteria for approval in our 00:23:03.120 --> 00:23:07.920 section 2.9.4 B and does meet that dent in 2040 comprehensive plan as well as 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:19.280 our 2019 historic preservation plan yeah Commissioner McDuff I'm sorry 00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:24.840 McDade I just had a question if something receives a historic landmark 00:23:24.840 --> 00:23:30.000 designation does it become property tax exempt or anything like that they would 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:37.320 have to go through that process so that process for a tax exemption would be up 00:23:37.320 --> 00:23:41.720 to 50% of their city property tax that would have to go in front of the 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:46.520 historic Landmark Commission as well as City Council but to be eligible just to 00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:50.240 even apply for that application they had to have spent a minimum of ten thousand 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:57.400 dollars towards the improvement and maintenance of their property Commissioner 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:03.880 McDuff yes a comment I have a concern rather I have a concern that what this is 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:09.600 a designation for historic landmark and it is a short-term rental that seems 00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:18.960 incongruous to me didn't seem to match so I have a concern for the integrity of 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:24.320 the property and the property camera correct me if I'm wrong I believe it is 00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:28.920 a rental home I don't know that it's I don't believe it has a short-term rental 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:34.920 correct but regardless there there's nothing in the coder criteria that says 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:38.680 how a home has to be used necessarily it's the structure itself that would 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:42.840 receive the historic designation correct so it is currently a rental property it 00:24:42.840 --> 00:24:52.880 is occupied by a UNT professor this the AIS says short-term rental it used to be 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.480 a short-term rental okay but it's a it's a rental property right currently yes 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:10.040 occupied by a UNT member commissioner day what are the benefits to a property 00:25:10.040 --> 00:25:15.840 owner to get this designation so it would just be the one historic tax 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:21.320 exemption so currently at the local level we only offer one historic tax 00:25:21.320 --> 00:25:27.280 assumption currently and it's that up to 50% of that city property tax otherwise 00:25:27.280 --> 00:25:32.520 if it was an income producing they could look to go for state and federal 00:25:32.520 --> 00:25:37.480 designation but that the city has no jurisdiction over so basically since this 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.540 is not their primary residence there's no home studying so there's there's no 00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:48.000 protection in the valuation when I'm Denton cat assesses them so they're 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:54.440 basically taxed a little bit higher than if it was their their main their main 00:25:54.440 --> 00:26:00.760 property so there would be a significant tax savings to the homeowners and 00:26:00.760 --> 00:26:06.000 actually a loss of money to the city if they got this and applied for the tax 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.980 exemptions yes that is correct if they went for the tax exemptions there's no 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:15.280 guarantee as that's a whole separate process separate from the actual 00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:21.200 designation but that is to say yes there could be a potential loss staff has done 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:26.320 diligent research of that at the last two years and it currently the number 00:26:26.320 --> 00:26:29.640 of properties that are getting receiving that tax exemption it's only about six 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:45.040 two thousand dollars that we're losing each year okay thank you okay just one 00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:53.880 question for clarification because I heard something new to me when you said 00:26:53.880 --> 00:27:00.920 that the income producing tax credit I don't remember if it's a credit or an 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:08.920 exemption for commercial income producing properties that requires a 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:13.320 historical designation separate from this one yes it would have to be at the 00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:18.000 state or federal level okay so at the local level this the only tax credit 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:24.080 that we have available is for what is essentially would be an owner occupied 00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:28.040 home or a residence itself but not for income producing commercial property 00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:33.440 like you see downtown okay and maybe I'm just not clear on the definitions but 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.720 does income producing property include a property that's leased out to a renter 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:42.000 they can yes okay but that like I said that's a whole different process they 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.080 would have to go through a nomination process with the county sure to then go 00:27:45.080 --> 00:27:49.440 for state and federal eligibility or designation and then they'd have to go 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.960 through a separate tax exemption process where they would also not be able to do 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:58.120 certain renovations and changes to the property okay understood any other 00:27:58.120 --> 00:28:09.840 questions thank you that brings us to our second public hearing item 5b DCA 26 - 00:28:09.840 --> 00:28:23.520 - good evening and just it's a lot of information on this I'm sure we will be 00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:30.280 properly briefed I will say we received a few written letters of support in 00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:35.280 opposition so once you get to the end or maybe it's already in the middle of it 00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:41.880 if you could explain how many of those we've gotten over the whole period of 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:46.960 public engagement and kind of what staff's view is on that and if we have 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:51.640 any idea what the issues are at that level we may not know but I will try to 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:56.520 address that if I don't let me know we're good thank you for this work 00:28:56.520 --> 00:29:00.360 session I just have a really brief overview we'll be happy to answer any 00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:05.840 questions our our presentation for the for the regular session I think is 43 00:29:05.840 --> 00:29:10.440 slides so we won't we won't do that to you on work session but I do and I 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:14.280 promise we'll be quick at regular session but I do want to just talk 00:29:14.280 --> 00:29:20.440 briefly about what we're doing tonight so really excited as you may know we 00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:26.920 adopted the southeast in an area plan in July of 2024 as part of that area plan 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:30.920 we did a tremendous amount of public engagement and we listened to the 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:36.200 community and the concerns of the community and and some of the things 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.640 that the community really indicated was that they wanted to protect their their 00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:43.800 neighborhoods and they also wanted to provide things that could strengthen 00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:48.680 their neighborhoods to provide to provide opportunities for the for the 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:54.640 community members so we have three overlays that were recommended as action 00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:59.120 items in the area plan these were a pretty big priority of the plan they 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:04.840 were short-term action items and so they so we wanted to get on them as quickly 00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:10.800 as possible so the proposal tonight before you is is to amend the didn't 00:30:10.800 --> 00:30:15.680 development code sub chapter 4 to add three new overlay districts within the 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:21.600 southeast Denton overlay area the first one is the height overlay district and 00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:26.120 that one is the area in blue community members indicated to us that they were 00:30:26.120 --> 00:30:29.840 concerned about downtown style development encroaching into southeast 00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:34.560 end the height overlay district is intended to provide a more gentle 00:30:34.560 --> 00:30:42.560 transition for that area between the DCTA facility the transit station and 00:30:42.560 --> 00:30:47.840 then those those residential more residential neighborhoods so the height 00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:51.400 overlay is intended to just keep the heights a little lower provide a better 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.960 transition the live work overlay I don't have a whole lot of detail if you have 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:01.120 specific questions I'm going to bring me up on that one but that is intended to 00:31:01.120 --> 00:31:06.320 to really do two things protect residential homes while reintroducing a 00:31:06.320 --> 00:31:11.120 variety of small businesses in an area that was historically had some businesses 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:15.240 throughout the area planning process we heard that Prairie was was a main 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:20.560 street for southeast end for a very long time and and that's kind of the zoning 00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:24.680 doesn't really allow those types of uses right now so in order to can bring back 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:32.240 that that type of use that live work district is is proposed once again with 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:37.400 items that are with protections for the surrounding residential neighborhoods 00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:44.240 because we want to make sure that that they they mesh together well and then 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:49.360 finally the residential overlay district this is this is proposed to really 00:31:49.360 --> 00:31:56.400 maintain the scale and character of existing residential areas the southeast 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:02.760 end developed over many decades starting in the 20s all the way up to even homes 00:32:02.760 --> 00:32:07.880 are being built there now and so we want to make sure that anything that is built 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:14.720 in there is reflective of the special character and and and the look and feel 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:19.880 of southeastern so the the proposed regulations within that that residential 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.680 overlay district aren't you spaced they really are design based so that was all 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.880 I was going to talk about for the work session I'll be happy to go through any 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:33.440 oh engagement sorry I looked at you and then I remembered I we have a we do have 00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:38.720 a slide on public engagement we have listed out all the things we did we had 00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:43.320 a we had 40 engagement opportunities when we prepared the southeastern area 00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:50.160 plan we estimate that we had about 529 people participate with the area 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:55.960 planning effort which is about 16% of the residents in southeastern we heard 00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:00.080 from the community and that's and what their concerns were and and that's how 00:33:00.080 --> 00:33:04.280 we got to those action items that we're moving forward with tonight but we 00:33:04.280 --> 00:33:07.800 wanted to validate make sure we had all of that information correct so we went 00:33:07.800 --> 00:33:13.240 back to the community in March of 2025 for a block party to really ask some 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:17.120 more deep dive questions about what these overlays would eventually look like 00:33:17.120 --> 00:33:23.720 took that information went back start writing started writing up the the 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:28.720 regulations we took those back to the community for Juneteenth last year we 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:33.680 also held neighborhood or community workshops last fall for both property 00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:40.680 owners and for non on owner occupied properties we've gone to Sedna we go 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:44.800 pretty much every month to talk to them and say are we on the right track is is 00:33:44.800 --> 00:33:49.760 this what the community is looking to see we put out boards and flyers at MLK 00:33:49.760 --> 00:33:54.400 and American Legion and then also of course we've had a lot of phone calls 00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:03.920 and emails with community members as far as specific concerns it probably would 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:07.860 be specific to each overlay and we could certainly talk through those at the work 00:34:07.860 --> 00:34:14.680 session if would you want to talk through those really quick I'm happy 00:34:14.680 --> 00:34:20.960 either way yes I'm seeing nodding heads all right okay so in terms of what we 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:26.400 really got a lot of information it was at the block party last year that's 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:31.920 where we really had a pile of questions and we asked the community what do you 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:38.680 what do you think we had boards stickers all those think Mia had jars where 00:34:38.680 --> 00:34:43.160 people could put a marble in it so we tried to do some fun things with the 00:34:43.160 --> 00:34:48.760 community but in terms of the the residential overlay prior to the block 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.080 party we went with the planning staff did a windshield survey of Southeast 00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:57.400 Denton and drove through the community and looked at common characteristics of 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:04.000 properties things like what how many stories do they have a front porch do 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:10.920 they what kind of garage setup do they have what is the kind of architectural 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:17.120 theme that the that that emerges from the different the different parts of 00:35:17.120 --> 00:35:21.040 Southeast Denton we took all of that information and then we created this 00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:25.680 list things like hey do you think that a front entry garage fits within 00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:31.640 southeastern ask the community members and and they responded to those or do 00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:35.720 you do you want to encourage front porches or stoops and the community gave 00:35:35.720 --> 00:35:40.840 us feedback on that so based upon the feedback that we got from that that's 00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:48.380 what that's what we went forward with we did we did go we made some other or 00:35:48.380 --> 00:35:56.160 provided some other questions you know asking do you want something like narrower 00:35:56.160 --> 00:36:02.800 lots or or shallower lots would you want would you want to be able to subdivide 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:06.760 lots so that each side of a duplex could be on its own lot so we asked some kind 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:10.720 of other questions too we heard from the community on those types of things that 00:36:10.720 --> 00:36:14.040 that wasn't what they were interested in so that that's why we are really just 00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:17.040 coming forward with the things that we heard from the community that they were 00:36:17.040 --> 00:36:23.200 interested in in terms of opposition not not many of them gave the reasoning 00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:28.620 we've had a lot of calls because this is kind of complicated and so we we did 00:36:28.620 --> 00:36:34.240 talk to the property owner or did talk to those who called into us kind of 00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:39.700 gave them just a description in more plain language also provided the the 00:36:39.700 --> 00:36:43.400 little cheat sheet that we've put on your desk we've emailed that out to a 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.800 lot of people we also had to translate it in Spanish in case a in case a 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:54.800 community member spoke preferred to speak Spanish so when we talk to people 00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:00.800 you know they seem to be like oh okay they understood it it just I think there 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:05.360 was some confusion about oh what is this because it is a it's a pretty it's a 00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:13.780 pretty big deal in terms of specific for the live work I will have Mia come up 00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:25.880 because I do not know that so Mia hunn senior planner just in terms of general 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:31.040 community feedback that we got from the live work component the first time 00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:35.840 around or with doing the area in adopting the area plan we talked with our with the 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.840 community in general that's when Julie heard or what Julie mentioned we got the 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:44.440 feedback on the historic district or a historic business district of southeast 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:48.160 end in the area along East Prairie the community wanting to see that restored 00:37:48.160 --> 00:37:52.240 but we also had some conversations subsequent conversations and 00:37:52.240 --> 00:37:57.640 implementation with trying to figure out specifically what non-residential uses 00:37:57.640 --> 00:38:03.040 what community-based uses they wanted to see throughout the community and in 00:38:03.040 --> 00:38:09.800 terms of the the specific feedback that we got from that share one of these 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:20.320 slides here and we presented some of this information the last time we we 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.880 brought a work session item before this body since then we did relaunch an 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.840 online survey asking similar questions about the uses that the community felt 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.640 were appropriate so these numbers are slightly different from what we 00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:36.360 presented at first but essentially this is what we got back in return and that 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.640 the community overwhelmingly or the respondents who participated 00:38:39.640 --> 00:38:44.320 overwhelmingly had support for general retail like small-scale retail 00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:48.840 restaurant service sit-down restaurants not drive-through restaurants personal 00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:52.960 service so that's your barber shops nail salons things like that daycare was a 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.760 really big one childcare facilities wanting that to be permitted in the 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:00.560 area mobile full court was a little iffy just because some people wanted the 00:39:00.560 --> 00:39:03.840 opportunity to be able to have those types of things but understanding that 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.200 typically with those are outdoor gatherings that comes with noise and 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:11.360 more traffic in the area so we're wanting we have that proposed as a 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:16.760 specific use permit option to really add that extra layer of check with the 00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.000 community as well as you know the Commission and the City Council and then 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:26.360 other ones include business and trade school at 79% of acceptable professional 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:33.400 office at 74 and then self-service laundry at 77 percent of the area and I 00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:37.200 think the big thing to note about the live work overlay is that you'll look you 00:39:37.200 --> 00:39:40.520 look at the action and the way that it's written from the southeastern area plan 00:39:40.520 --> 00:39:45.280 and it does specifically mention that the the goal of this action is to allow 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:51.560 for basically a vertical mix of a residential unit use and a non-residential 00:39:51.560 --> 00:39:55.200 use within the same structure what we're actually proposing is to allow for 00:39:55.200 --> 00:40:01.520 standalone non-residential businesses to be operating on East Prairie Street and 00:40:01.520 --> 00:40:05.840 this is just a response to the community and the uses that they wanted to see 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.400 there and and some of the the challenges that we have come to know that are 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.820 associated with trying to mesh and have both the residential and the 00:40:13.820 --> 00:40:21.280 non-residential use and the same structure there's more believe it or 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:26.780 not that we can go over within the work session but happy to answer any questions 00:40:26.780 --> 00:40:36.000 that you only have any questions yeah Commissioner McDuff I have not have you 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:41.480 did you receive any negative or opposition to the plan in the proposal 00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:47.120 because I haven't heard any we did not know not necessarily we've heard 00:40:47.120 --> 00:40:50.560 concerns just in general about the implementation that's why we've 00:40:50.560 --> 00:40:54.440 implemented some of the like the buffering requirement between a 00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:58.080 non-residential use and a residential use people in general talk about you 00:40:58.080 --> 00:41:02.920 know things that are associated with bringing businesses into an area more 00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:07.480 parking others other things of that nature and so some of the things that we 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:12.200 implemented like the limited hours of operation our response to you to that as 00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:18.320 well as like Julie mentioned the ensuring the that the character the 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:22.160 architectural character of the area stays the same so that way if someone is 00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:26.960 interested in constructing a completely new building and implementing one of 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:31.240 these small uses it still looks like it fits in with the with the area so I 00:41:31.240 --> 00:41:35.880 think we have heard some concerns nothing in total opposition 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:40.680 unnecessarily towards the live work area and then even with those concerns we 00:41:40.680 --> 00:41:43.840 try to work them in with the operational standards and things that we are 00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:53.960 proposing thank you very much anything I just want to say thank you to staff for 00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:58.760 looking into the live work or code it's called work live it just depends well 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:05.920 you're looking at our zoning code or the building code or who knows but you know I 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:11.680 think this is a good first step to to start essentially making sure that our 00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:18.280 zoning code economically allows them to happen in order to not get in the weeds 00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:23.720 and confuse public members I'll say this here instead of in the the session 00:42:23.720 --> 00:42:35.080 tonight but I do believe that allowing these while the AIS spoke to the fact 00:42:35.080 --> 00:42:40.240 that we haven't seen any applications yet and they typically have higher 00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:46.240 building code standards and that's this sort of thing if they are five thousand 00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:52.000 square feet or less then or three thousand excuse me per the building code 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:58.040 they're allowed to use the IRC to build them which is a heck of a lot cheaper 00:42:58.040 --> 00:43:02.760 the only stipulation is that they have to have a 13 D sprinkler system which is a 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.600 whole lot cheaper than the sprinkler system you put in a commercial building 00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:13.000 so I just want to put that out there yeah for future consideration my my other 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:18.740 concern other than hey let's let's make sure these things that our code says we 00:43:18.740 --> 00:43:26.480 want are viable options in other places is that since we define them as it must 00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:30.920 be greater than 50 percent commercial I'm concerned that our existing code 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:36.000 would have an applicant come in and say I'm gonna build a seven thousand 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.400 square foot commercial building on this one acre lot with a 400 square foot 00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:45.600 apartment and there's nothing you can do to stop me so yeah what this sort of 00:43:45.600 --> 00:43:49.400 also is playing because we did look into that after the last conversation that we 00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:53.640 had and we confirmed that yes basically our code is the kind of the opposite or 00:43:53.640 --> 00:43:58.760 the automate automatically kicks you into the IBC because it requires the no 00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:03.800 more than 50% be residential instead of non-residential this I think with the 00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:08.200 with the you specific standards that we're proposing for the work live on in 00:44:08.200 --> 00:44:13.200 this overlay it is kind of a soft launch to reversing that to see and if that 00:44:13.200 --> 00:44:16.880 works better as a land use option within this overlay district and then 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:20.940 potentially we could consider a code update related to the just the use 00:44:20.940 --> 00:44:25.800 across the city as well okay yeah I just want to thank you all for looking into 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:30.240 that I know it it takes time away from urgent things to dive into the weeds and 00:44:30.240 --> 00:44:36.600 I appreciate it anything else Commissioner McDev thank you just a 00:44:36.600 --> 00:44:43.480 question had did any of the property owners in these areas or is there any 00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:47.960 request for any type of historic designations for any of the properties 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:57.000 there not that I know of I look to Julie she looks like make that is a great 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:02.040 question with as part of the area plan historic preservation was one of the 00:45:02.040 --> 00:45:08.120 action items both in trying to find if the community would like historic 00:45:08.120 --> 00:45:12.920 districts or protection but also education about the value of historic 00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:17.760 preservation the city applied for a grant from the National Park Service to 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.440 conduct a historic resource survey in Southeast Denton it was awarded we they 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:30.440 would the money was was sent was funded and we are in the RFQ process so we hope 00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:36.600 to be to start the historic resource survey in late summer early fall to find 00:45:36.600 --> 00:45:42.440 those properties that would potentially be interested in preserving are there 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:46.840 some designations currently because I was thinking some of the churches had 00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:51.800 that historic designation now I'm gonna bring camera 00:45:53.160 --> 00:46:01.480 sorry yeah hi Karen Robertson historic preservation officer so a lot of the 00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:05.520 properties in the southeast end neighborhood have subject markers but 00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:08.760 they're not actually designated themselves so they have the recognition 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.960 from the state but they don't have that additional layer of protection with the 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:31.120 destination was that a no no 00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:38.520 Commissioner McDuff yes I would just say I agree with Chair Pruitt on thank you 00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:44.080 to the staff I had a note for that this is a lot of work by any measurement by 00:46:44.080 --> 00:46:53.080 any means Julie and Mia in particular but also I'm glad that Commissioner 00:46:53.080 --> 00:46:56.880 McDuffie has talked and brought some ideas forward some concepts and I hope 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:02.760 you'll do the same thing when we get in the public hearing I'm sure you will so 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.000 we can hear that there was some public comments and third thirdly there were 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.080 some some input that came in Chair Pruitt you were probably going to talk 00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:16.880 about this some things that came in at 2 30 this afternoon I was watching my 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:24.280 voice record and these came into the into my email but just some concerns it 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:31.280 looked like same several from the same property owner but there was one in 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:36.880 particular that I'm interested in I'm going to read it if I may it's from 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:42.880 Leona Franklin and she says why I pose this request can't be in favor of where 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:48.240 I've lived for 57 years not knowing changes or what to expect planning and 00:47:48.240 --> 00:47:55.720 zoning will move forward regardless so I just I wanted us to acknowledge that and 00:47:55.720 --> 00:48:00.560 sounds like you know a long time property owner sure and I hope some of 00:48:00.560 --> 00:48:09.960 those who sent in the written notices will will be here tonight anything else 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:21.240 okay that brings us to our one work session this evening which is easy 00:48:21.240 --> 00:48:29.920 something 26 - 55 have we really had 55 work session that must include Council's 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:43.200 numbering - yes sorry complete tangent I'm just surprised it's 55 because that's 00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:57.480 usually the number within the year let's let me just ask you Angie about how long 00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:02.240 do you think this would be because it could be three slides or it could be 38 00:49:02.240 --> 00:49:09.000 given the subject matter I don't know it's 22 okay some of them go quick but 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:16.120 I'll leave it up to you I think I probably talk for 15 minutes okay but why 00:49:16.120 --> 00:49:20.360 don't could be faster yeah why don't we go ahead and take a short break to grab 00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:25.240 dinner then if the Commission's okay with that and then we will enjoy 00:49:25.240 --> 00:49:32.720 hopefully you'll get a chance after that to get some as well so at 551 we'll take 00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:37.440 a eight-minute recess and be back at 559 00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:46.080 and at 6 p.m. with a quorum present we'll reconvene for the work session report 00:49:46.080 --> 00:49:52.240 PZ 26 - 55 thank you chair members of the Commission Angie Mangleris assistant 00:49:52.240 --> 00:49:57.560 planning director today we're gonna do a work session spurred by one of the 00:49:57.560 --> 00:50:01.320 matrix items just about zoning following annexations we're gonna cover a couple 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:04.040 topics because they all kind of relate to one another but we're gonna talk 00:50:04.040 --> 00:50:08.800 about annexation subsequent zoning after that and then we're gonna touch a little 00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:14.100 bit on municipal utility districts as well so again we'll go through some key 00:50:14.100 --> 00:50:17.920 definitions we'll talk a little bit about state law annexation in the city 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:23.920 of Denton rezoning after annexation and municipal utility districts also known 00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:29.520 as MUDS before we dive into annexation it's important to understand some of 00:50:29.520 --> 00:50:33.640 the definitions of what we'll be talking about so annexation is the means by 00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:37.840 which cities expand their boundaries the process of land transfer from one unit 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:41.920 of government to another cities can only annex land from our 00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:47.360 extraterritorial jurisdiction or ETJ ETJ is the unincorporated area 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:51.400 contiguous to the corporate boundaries of a municipality the area or distance 00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:56.000 of the ETJ depends on the municipalities population so the city of Denton is 00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:00.000 greater than a hundred thousand people that means our ETJ extends five miles 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.000 out from our corporate boundaries our ETJ doesn't doesn't continue to get 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:09.440 bigger it's kind of set where it is today but it is good information to know 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:14.880 speaking of ETJ we have two types of ETJ we have ETJ division one which you see 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.840 in yellow on your screen and ETJ division two which is the pink areas that you see 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:25.080 in green are the city of Denton's corporate limits in ETJ division one we 00:51:25.080 --> 00:51:30.840 do have some authority we predominantly platting so subdivision requirements in 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:36.540 ETJ division one do apply on occasion there may be CEPs associated with an ETJ 00:51:36.540 --> 00:51:41.560 division one project but predominantly you may see some plats and we'll note on 00:51:41.560 --> 00:51:46.640 those that this is in the ETJ ETJ division two we really don't have much 00:51:46.640 --> 00:51:51.640 to say we do have an interlocal agreement with Denton County development 00:51:51.640 --> 00:51:55.780 and subdivision of land and ETJ division two largely follows the requirements of 00:51:55.780 --> 00:51:59.920 Denton County and any state law that they need to follow this little handy 00:51:59.920 --> 00:52:03.960 chart breaks it down even further this covers just some of the big topics we 00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:09.080 talk about zoning subdivision regulations tree preservation and gas well 00:52:09.080 --> 00:52:12.760 regulations so you can see in the city limits we we can regulate all of those 00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:17.040 things in ETJ division one we can regulate subdivision so that's sub 00:52:17.040 --> 00:52:21.000 chapter 8 in the Denton development code and in each year division 2 we really 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:32.060 don't touch any of it state annexation law is a very intense history to try 00:52:32.060 --> 00:52:35.640 and dive through tonight but some of the important takeaways are the state 00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:40.440 legislature has gradually taken away city's abilities to annex over time this 00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:47.000 this timeline kind of starts in 1963 and as we as we go through state really 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:51.000 limited how cities can annex requiring non annexation agreements for properties 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:56.280 that are used for ag wildlife or timberland it further got limited in 2019 00:52:56.280 --> 00:53:01.200 and really limited the involuntary annexations that cities can do and then 00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:08.920 recently in 2023 state law allows residents in the ETJ to submit a 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:14.880 petition to remove themselves from the city's ETJ so our ability to annex 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:19.600 especially involuntarily has really kind of been chipped away at session 00:53:19.600 --> 00:53:24.800 over session and that's important to just understand this is a fun video it 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:29.040 shows how the city of Denton has changed over time so we're gonna it's about 30 00:53:29.040 --> 00:53:35.600 seconds the area that you see in gray is the corporate limits and then the green 00:53:35.600 --> 00:53:41.520 will be when we add new property so you can see for a while there was quite a 00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:45.240 bit of annexation going on especially strip annexation along our major 00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:51.080 thoroughfares and the city continues to grow around its periphery we start 00:53:51.080 --> 00:53:56.240 adding areas like ropes and ranch and then that was later followed by some of 00:53:56.240 --> 00:54:00.200 the hunter and coal properties and we see properties grow around the north 00:54:00.200 --> 00:54:03.880 and then annexation after that has really been some of those we call them 00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:10.600 donor holes but those areas in sort of like little holes around the city limits 00:54:10.600 --> 00:54:17.960 it's the same video today we we have what we call non annexation agreements 00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:23.280 and so state law did require for any property the city was interested in 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:29.040 annexing if it was used for agricultural wildlife or timber use the city had to 00:54:29.040 --> 00:54:32.520 offer a non annexation agreement which was setting the terms under which the 00:54:32.520 --> 00:54:37.160 city would would not annex your property the city extended these types of 00:54:37.160 --> 00:54:42.280 agreements to owners in the ETJ between 2010 and 2016 we also extended it to 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:47.040 individuals who use their property for single-family only the initial 00:54:47.040 --> 00:54:53.280 agreements expired in 2020 and we offered extensions until 2040 within the 00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:58.120 NAA a development plan is stipulated it typically requires that lots can't be 00:54:58.120 --> 00:55:01.920 subdivided smaller than five acres that it continues to be used for single 00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:07.080 family use if a property owner wishes to subdivide smaller or maybe wants to have 00:55:07.080 --> 00:55:13.600 a different use on there at that point annexation is triggered the city also 00:55:13.600 --> 00:55:17.980 has several restrictive covenants which operates similar to NAAs but they're 00:55:17.980 --> 00:55:21.840 actually a little bit more restrictive platting is the mechanism for which 00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.680 annexation is required and so those are spelled out in the agreement that at any 00:55:25.680 --> 00:55:29.720 time basically they want to develop they need to plot they need to annex into the 00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:35.960 city annexation procedures annexations take a little bit of time to get through 00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:40.200 there are procedures spelled out in the Texas local government code chapter 43 00:55:40.200 --> 00:55:45.240 and then the city of Den both in the city charter and in subchapter 2 outline 00:55:45.240 --> 00:55:50.880 several steps state law requires that we allow for the continuation of use so if 00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:53.760 you're using your property in one way and we annex you we have to allow that 00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:58.920 content to continue state law also authorizes or requires that we agree to 00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:04.680 provide services it sets a minimum width for the land area that can be annexed it 00:56:04.680 --> 00:56:09.720 requires continuity of city boundaries so you can't leapfrog and there's a 00:56:09.720 --> 00:56:13.520 maximum amount of 10% of the municipalities total land area that could 00:56:13.520 --> 00:56:18.840 be annexed in a given calendar year what that looks like when it when it comes 00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:23.400 down to it when we see an annexation there's two council meetings at the 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.560 first council meeting we're first adopting a municipal services agreement 00:56:27.560 --> 00:56:31.200 which is essentially saying we're interested in annexing this property 00:56:31.200 --> 00:56:35.520 these are all of the services that the city provides we are agreeing to provide 00:56:35.520 --> 00:56:39.760 those services to that landowner and City Council adopts that agreement 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:45.200 following that there's a public hearing regarding the annexation anybody is 00:56:45.200 --> 00:56:49.440 welcome to comment on that and then we actually read the caption of the 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:54.240 ordinance into the record at that first meeting following the first meeting the 00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:57.720 entirety of the annexation ordinance is published in the Denton record chronicle 00:56:57.720 --> 00:57:02.520 and per our city charter that cannot be acted on for another 30 days so we'll 00:57:02.520 --> 00:57:06.240 publish it and we'll just kind of hang out for 30 days and we'll have the second 00:57:06.240 --> 00:57:10.640 meeting at which point we read the caption again into the record and City 00:57:10.640 --> 00:57:15.440 Council can take action so that's kind of that's the process in which a property 00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:22.120 can be annexed into the city post annexation annexation ordinances are 00:57:22.120 --> 00:57:26.600 effective immediately and per state law we have to assign them a placeholder 00:57:26.600 --> 00:57:31.160 zoning designation in our case we assign the rural residential zoning designation 00:57:31.160 --> 00:57:36.000 and it's only after annexation can zoning action occur so we don't notice 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.480 properties for public hearing prior to them being in the city limits because we 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.720 don't have that land use authority yet and then from there the property will 00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:50.720 follow our typical rezoning procedures for development that's a that's a lot of 00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:54.000 information so we're going to walk through two examples that really show 00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:57.880 how different the process can be or how much time it can take when we're talking 00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:04.520 about annexation the subsequent rezoning and development so here on the left side 00:58:04.520 --> 00:58:07.920 of the screen we have coal ranch and then on the right hand side of the 00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:15.560 screen we have Dentex coal ranch is sort of near Robeson Ranch off of 35w and 00:58:15.560 --> 00:58:20.680 its annexation patterns varied but it was largely annexed between 2001 and 00:58:20.680 --> 00:58:25.560 2006 so they're annexed and they're assigned a placeholder designation 00:58:25.560 --> 00:58:30.760 following that they were initially zoned MPC for their master plan community in 00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:37.560 2008 and then not much happened really until 2020 when they sought major 00:58:37.560 --> 00:58:41.400 amendments to their MPC and we have the the zoning that we have today where you 00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:44.120 see the different shadings for the the base zoning districts which are most 00:58:44.120 --> 00:58:48.240 familiar with it wasn't until a couple years later that we started seeing 00:58:48.240 --> 00:58:52.840 preliminary plot approvals for coal ranch and even today you know they're 00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:56.600 still working on some of those CEPs and final plots for their first phase so 00:58:56.600 --> 00:59:00.920 we're talking in over 20 years before we're even seeing dirt moving on a 00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:08.600 project like the coal ranch scale on the other hand Dentex which is just south of 00:59:08.600 --> 00:59:12.880 Allroad Road north of Johnson Lane it's by the country lakes development in 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:20.000 South Denton this was annexed in 2024 immediately following their annexation 00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:23.920 they took forward their zoning and comprehensive plan amendment cases and 00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:30.160 those were also approved in 2024 and then today in 2026 they have received 00:59:30.160 --> 00:59:35.240 approvals for their CEPs and their final plot is up for consideration so that 00:59:35.240 --> 00:59:42.320 just there is no one-size-fits-all path for annexations there is no real linear 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:45.880 way it's very development specific obviously these large master plan 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.720 communities when we're talking about 2,000 plus acres that's going to take 00:59:49.720 --> 00:59:54.600 some time to plan out and develop Dentex is kind of one of the donut 00:59:54.600 --> 01:00:00.120 holes that we referred to this was all not in the city limits however it was 01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:03.480 surrounded with the exception of these areas by city limits so it's kind of a 01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:06.760 little bit of a hole within our municipality so it's it's filling that 01:00:06.760 --> 01:00:11.040 in and following some of the existing development patterns so that's kind of 01:00:11.040 --> 01:00:15.120 two different ways that annexation the subsequent rezoning and eventual land 01:00:15.120 --> 01:00:21.960 development can play out there no one case is alike is a good way to put it 01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:26.000 that's all I know about annexations we're talking a little bit about MUDs 01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:32.480 which are municipal utility districts and municipal utility districts are 01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:38.120 special-purpose districts special-purpose districts are created to provide a 01:00:38.120 --> 01:00:43.240 mechanism to fund infrastructure in areas where they otherwise wouldn't be 01:00:43.240 --> 01:00:48.360 MUDs specifically are created to provide infrastructure for development in most 01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:51.640 cases it's residential development but there may be a commercial component 01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:56.320 associated with it MUDs can be created in one of two ways either by an act of 01:00:56.320 --> 01:01:00.760 the legislature or through TCEQ following a consent process through the 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.640 city there are stipulations for some MUDs and they can annex into the city 01:01:05.640 --> 01:01:12.000 following repayment of their bond funding MUDs are are kind of a hot topic 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:17.720 we do have several they do operate in our ETJ this map shows sort of where 01:01:17.720 --> 01:01:24.160 they're scattered but for placement this is 156 and this is 380 so we have crumb 01:01:24.160 --> 01:01:29.960 and Sanger a lot of these are out west in the city limits we have several that 01:01:29.960 --> 01:01:35.320 we've provided consent to and then we're also aware of a handful more that are 01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:44.320 interested in in joining in on that process what that means is we expect 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:49.080 MUDs to have a population impact of approximately a hundred and eight 01:01:49.080 --> 01:01:57.080 thousand people accounting for just under just under thirty four thousand 01:01:57.080 --> 01:02:02.740 housing units through MUDs we are agreeing to provide utility services to 01:02:02.740 --> 01:02:09.520 these areas usually negotiated through a development agreement in 2022 the city 01:02:09.520 --> 01:02:14.800 did adopt a MUD policy this helps guide the framework for development agreements 01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:20.280 and gives us a little bit of ability to ensure that we're getting utility 01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:25.640 services the way that we would like them and we can have some say and how those 01:02:25.640 --> 01:02:32.120 areas develop Denton is a full-service city which does make us an attractive 01:02:32.120 --> 01:02:36.240 place the development agreements do help us to ensure we're building to city 01:02:36.240 --> 01:02:40.640 standards and give us that opportunity for future annexation should we wish to 01:02:40.640 --> 01:02:46.160 pursue that and then just a reminder again most of these MUDs occur in our 01:02:46.160 --> 01:02:49.600 ETJ I'm sorry all of our MUDs occur in our ETJ it's not really an option for in 01:02:49.600 --> 01:02:56.240 city we don't have land use control in the ETJs we kind of discussed earlier 01:02:56.240 --> 01:03:03.480 when we adopted the 2022 comprehensive plan we noted that we had several MUDs 01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:07.080 we were aware of and had been approved and we tried to outline those in pink 01:03:07.080 --> 01:03:11.000 so you can see them obviously from the map we saw earlier today it has changed 01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:17.120 a little bit but we did try to at least reflect and account for that 01:03:17.120 --> 01:03:22.440 it's kind of ahead on MUDs I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about 01:03:22.440 --> 01:03:32.240 either topic questions I'll kick it off with the easy and fun questions if you 01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:38.760 could go early back in the mud I think that the actually that last one will do 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:51.800 just fine yes I've always been curious how the ETJ borders operate between us 01:03:51.800 --> 01:04:00.800 and cities within our ETJ 2 to determine the line between our ETJ and their ETJ I 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:07.600 think from looking this at this map it tells me that essentially their ETJ 1 01:04:07.600 --> 01:04:18.800 beats our ETJ 2 and then is that accurate I'm just I'm just curious if we 01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:22.160 know it looks like Hillary were you preparing to chime in this gets a little 01:04:22.160 --> 01:04:34.640 bit out of some of my competing ETJ area of expertise I think it's to be quite 01:04:34.640 --> 01:04:39.600 informal more of a dib system like whoever got their first and staked claim 01:04:39.600 --> 01:04:44.120 but you can see looking at like Sanger and Crumb they because of their 01:04:44.120 --> 01:04:49.600 population size only could go out so far so that enabled us to further surround 01:04:49.600 --> 01:04:55.400 them and limit any potential growth of their ETJ by then laying claim to the 01:04:55.400 --> 01:04:59.840 other areas and I would say the ETJ 1 and 2 I believe is probably unique to 01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:03.160 Denton I've not heard of other cities that have that that is actually just a 01:05:03.160 --> 01:05:06.400 product of our inner local agreement with the county and us divvying up who 01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:10.720 was going to have subdivision authority over those areas but feel free to chime 01:05:10.720 --> 01:05:15.320 in if I misstated anything there I would only expand on one concept is that the 01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:20.760 calling dibs is governed by when a city reaches those different population 01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:25.800 thresholds that Angie showed earlier in the presentation so if Sanger got out 01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:31.840 to a one mile radius before we were at our five mile radius that's why you see 01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:38.440 us kind of surrounding them thank you the more you know with the whole 01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:46.000 rainbow thing interesting and then I've also always been curious I understand 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:51.560 that the non exit annexation agreements that we have have those requirements 01:05:51.560 --> 01:06:03.680 that you described is council bound to continue all of those agreements or if 01:06:03.680 --> 01:06:07.600 they wanted to in the future could they release the landholder of their 01:06:07.600 --> 01:06:13.000 requirements sure so they they have set expiration dates and the the initial 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:17.320 ones in 2020 at that time we evaluated because we can offer them for a period 01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:21.320 of up to 45 years and so the the question at that time was do we want to 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:26.720 continue to to honor this and just only trigger that annexation when either more 01:06:26.720 --> 01:06:30.280 really in that case when they want to develop so currently right now we're 01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:33.700 still working through some of those ones that haven't quite responded and the 01:06:33.700 --> 01:06:36.760 action has been if they're not renewing to annex but we're not actively looking 01:06:36.760 --> 01:06:40.800 to break any of those agreements okay 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:52.240 questions yeah Commissioner McDuff a big date so do muds have any type of 01:06:52.240 --> 01:07:02.960 authority to work they get their authority from the state yes so do they 01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:10.080 have the ability to levy taxes or anything like that in their mud or 01:07:10.080 --> 01:07:15.760 additional tax they do but I'm gonna let Charlie address that because he's very 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:24.240 knowledgeable yes so the muds do you have the ability to either levy ad valorem 01:07:24.240 --> 01:07:28.160 tax on the property itself or they're able to recover those costs through 01:07:28.160 --> 01:07:37.360 special assessments in the way that they're handled so then does it become 01:07:37.360 --> 01:07:42.520 some type of additional agreement or with whoever purchases a property within 01:07:42.520 --> 01:07:48.440 a mud they already know they're gonna pay additional taxes because of the mud 01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:52.840 yeah so it's it's disclosed at the time that the property is sold that they're 01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:56.200 within a mud and it's similar to what you would see on your own property taxes 01:07:56.200 --> 01:08:01.200 where it's like different layers of city county ISD and then they would have a 01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:05.680 separate line item they would say it's mud name and then that property tax 01:08:05.680 --> 01:08:09.960 amount so the city would collect those taxes and send it to the mud the 01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:13.700 appraisal district would collect those taxes and remit it back to the district 01:08:13.700 --> 01:08:17.120 itself thank you 01:08:17.120 --> 01:08:21.240 chairman can I piggyback on that please this is why you always ask your real 01:08:21.240 --> 01:08:24.680 estate agent when you're looking for a house if you're looking in an area that 01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.320 has a pit and a mud so you know if there's any extra taxes that you have to 01:08:28.320 --> 01:08:39.200 pay outside of your city your county and your school taxes any other questions 01:08:39.200 --> 01:08:54.000 all right thank you Angie very much that brings our work session to a close I 01:08:54.000 --> 01:09:02.000 believe so at 620 p.m. we will break and reconvene at 630 in council chambers 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:12.000 thank you good evening at 632 p.m. this Wednesday April 8 I will call this 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.240 regular session of the city of Denton planning and zoning Commission to order 01:09:15.240 --> 01:09:20.680 with a quorum present let the record show that Commissioner Riggs is absent 01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:26.520 our first order of business is to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance to the 01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:53.440 U.S. and Texas flag 01:09:56.520 --> 01:10:12.360 that brings us to our next item of business item to a PZ 26 - 51 consider 01:10:12.360 --> 01:10:17.000 the approval of the March 18th planning and zoning missions minutes 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:30.760 Commissioner catcher said and Commissioner Garland seeing no discussion 01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:43.720 I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our consent 01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:53.280 agenda I will note that there was a typo in the agenda information sheet on item 01:10:53.280 --> 01:11:02.680 3a this is actually phase 5 of this plot as opposed to phase 3 however because 01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:07.800 the plat approves the the plat that gets recorded with the county as opposed to 01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:13.600 the edge of the information sheet there's no issue to to approve this from a 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:20.000 correctness perspective do I have any discussion or motion Commissioner 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:26.000 catcher said a motion to approve the consent agenda Commissioner Garland and 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:33.400 I second that motion thank you any discussion seeing none I'll call for a 01:11:33.400 --> 01:11:45.160 vote on the board and the consent agenda is approved 6-0 brings us to our items 01:11:45.160 --> 01:11:54.560 for individual consideration for a FP 26 - 11 good evening chair members of the 01:11:54.560 --> 01:12:00.960 Commission Ashley exit associate planner this is FP 26 11 this is a final plot 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:05.880 for honey farms estate this is an approximately 9.24 acre site on the 01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:10.000 south side of Sanders Road at this time the staff does recommends denial as they 01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:13.560 do not meet the criteria for approval however we have no objection to the 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:17.800 requested extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 and I'm happy to answer 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:24.480 any questions any questions or emotion Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make 01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:32.840 a motion for the extension of this proposal to a date certain of April 29th 2026 01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:41.400 and sorry Commissioner Kester said I second that motion 01:12:41.400 --> 01:12:50.040 seeing no discussion with the motion and second on the board I'll call for a vote 01:12:50.040 --> 01:12:59.960 on the board to continue that item passes 6-0 brings us to our second item for 01:12:59.960 --> 01:13:07.280 individual consideration for be FP 26 - 6 good evening chair members of the 01:13:07.280 --> 01:13:12.880 Commission Angie Mcglares assistant planning director this is FP 26 - 0 0 0 6 01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:17.520 this is a final pot for the bridal ridge subdivision it's generally located north 01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:24.480 of Johnson Lane and approximately 2,400 feet east of John Payne Road this plot 01:13:24.480 --> 01:13:28.440 does now meet our criteria for approval and staff is recommending approval this 01:13:28.440 --> 01:13:32.600 evening I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have thank you 01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:37.240 Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make a motion for the approval of this 01:13:37.240 --> 01:13:41.080 proposal in line with staffs recommendation this will be a second 01:13:41.080 --> 01:13:48.560 extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 part pardon me to approve the 01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:53.760 application or approve the extension approve the extension okay in line with 01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:58.680 staffs recommendation sorry can I get clarification on his staff recommending 01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:03.600 approval or extension yes this is one of the ones that they addressed all our 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:06.900 comments this afternoon we are able to get them for approval so staff is 01:14:06.900 --> 01:14:12.200 recommending approval this evening so just can you restate your motion yes I'll 01:14:12.200 --> 01:14:18.840 recite my motion for the approval of this proposal and Commissioner Ketchus 01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:25.280 said I second that motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for 01:14:25.280 --> 01:14:40.440 a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to item 4 CFP 26 - 13 thank you 01:14:40.440 --> 01:14:43.680 Angie Mingler's assistant planning director this is a final plot for the 01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:48.800 Alevo apartments is approximately 18 acre site located south of Duchess Drive 01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:53.900 approximately 800 feet west of loop 288 in the city of Denton at this time the 01:14:53.900 --> 01:14:57.520 plot does not meet all of our criteria for approval so staff is recommending 01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:00.680 denial but has no objection to the requested extension which could be 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.280 granted to a date certain of April 29th I'm happy to answer any questions y'all 01:15:04.280 --> 01:15:11.120 may have thank you Commissioner Ketchus said a motion to approve the extension 01:15:11.120 --> 01:15:18.520 certain to April 29th Commissioner Garland and I second that with a motion 01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:29.360 a second no discussion I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 01:15:29.360 --> 01:15:41.080 brings us to 4d FP 26 - 3 evening chair members of the Commission behind senior 01:15:41.080 --> 01:15:48.840 planner this item is FP 26 - 3 a final plot for Hickory Grove phase 6 the 01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:54.800 property is 66.5 to 1 acres located at the southeast corner of Jackson Road and 01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:59.120 Nail Road in the city's ETJ and further or closer to the western edge of the 01:15:59.120 --> 01:16:04.080 city at this time the plot is not meeting all our criteria approval so we 01:16:04.080 --> 01:16:08.360 have we are recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested 01:16:08.360 --> 01:16:13.520 extension to May 13 2026 and this would be their third extension for this final 01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:19.320 plan happy to answer any questions you may have yeah Commissioner Garland the 01:16:19.320 --> 01:16:24.760 previous item is still on the screen I was just I don't know if it's an issue 01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:40.940 sorry okay now we're back okay you're good now thank you I have one question 01:16:40.940 --> 01:16:48.280 just that I didn't catch in the work session this is recommended extension to 01:16:48.280 --> 01:16:54.640 two meetings from now instead of one meeting I'm sorry no what is the what's 01:16:54.640 --> 01:17:00.600 that next day it would be the April 29th that would be April 29 2026 okay would 01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:05.680 be the next meeting my apologies okay just wanted to confirm that open the 01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:14.840 floor for a discussion or emotion yeah yes Commissioner Ketcham I motion to 01:17:14.840 --> 01:17:19.320 approve the extension request to a date certain of April 29 2026 01:17:19.320 --> 01:17:25.000 Commissioner Garland and I'll second the extension with the motion and a second 01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:37.720 on the board seeing no discussion call for a vote that item passes 6-0 brings us 01:17:37.720 --> 01:17:43.120 to 4E V 26 - 5 01:17:50.200 --> 01:17:56.480 good evening Commission map or Dean assistant planner here to present the 01:17:56.480 --> 01:18:01.680 triptych addition subdivision variance so a little bit of background this 01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:10.280 subdivision variance is associated with a 10 acre lot located about just under a 01:18:10.280 --> 01:18:14.280 mile north of loop 288 there's an existing family residence on the site 01:18:14.280 --> 01:18:18.600 it's associated with a final replat that's also on the agenda tonight 01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:25.080 pushing to subdivide into two lots one of those lots the one in the city's ETJ 01:18:25.080 --> 01:18:32.480 only has access to a public road via an existing private access easement which 01:18:32.480 --> 01:18:38.000 brings us to the subdivision variance request there is a requirement in our 01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:44.560 subdivision regulations that no more than yeah no more than three single family 01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:49.920 lots may access a public road by means of a private access easement just do the 01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:55.760 configuration of this area there are already more than three residential 01:18:55.760 --> 01:19:02.920 lots that access the existing easement and so in order to approve this final 01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:08.720 replat a variance request was made to allow more than two residential lots to 01:19:08.720 --> 01:19:13.360 access a public street by means of a private access easement so there are 01:19:13.360 --> 01:19:17.840 four criteria for approval of a subdivision variance I'll go through 01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:23.320 each one individually and staff's assessment of them so the first one is 01:19:23.320 --> 01:19:27.320 that in granting the variance it not be detrimental to public safety health and 01:19:27.320 --> 01:19:34.680 welfare is found that these are the purpose of this replat is for two 01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:40.720 single-family residents lots we do not see any detriment to public safety just 01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:48.240 due to no increase in traffic burden on FM 2164 the second criteria is that 01:19:48.240 --> 01:19:54.320 because of any particular conditions of the property or its area that the strict 01:19:54.320 --> 01:20:00.440 regulation of the code creates a hardship staff finds that the peculiar 01:20:00.440 --> 01:20:05.560 pattern of development in this area creates this hardship this property 01:20:05.560 --> 01:20:14.880 cannot subdivide under the current DC regulations as is since as shown on the 01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:20.080 screen we can see there are 12 lots that takes access off of this existing 01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:25.200 private access easement also called the concrete road of which at least nine are 01:20:25.200 --> 01:20:34.480 for single-family residences the third criteria is that the variance not very 01:20:34.480 --> 01:20:41.480 any provisions of our long-range planning documents or the DDC this the 01:20:41.480 --> 01:20:45.760 final plot associated with this variance follows all other requirements of the 01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:53.040 DDC in addition the plot does make right away reservations for future corridors 01:20:53.040 --> 01:21:00.280 that are called for on the mobility plan fourth and granting this variance 01:21:00.280 --> 01:21:06.400 request the peculiar conditions should not be the results of the action of the 01:21:06.400 --> 01:21:12.280 owner or any prior owner subsequent to the date of the creation requirement as 01:21:12.280 --> 01:21:17.480 seen on the abstract survey shown on the screen this particular configuration of 01:21:17.480 --> 01:21:23.000 lots with well more than three having sole access office easement has been 01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:30.720 in effect since at least 1987 which is well before this criteria of the DDC was 01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:36.080 put in place as such staff is recommending an approval of the 01:21:36.080 --> 01:21:40.440 requested subdivision variance as it complies with the criteria but here to 01:21:40.440 --> 01:21:55.120 answer any questions any questions for staff or emotion commissioner dire I 01:21:55.120 --> 01:22:03.000 move to make a motion that we go ahead and approve a recommendation to do the 01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:13.280 subdivision variance commissioner I second that motion okay any discussion 01:22:13.280 --> 01:22:18.960 not seeing any with a motion and a second I will call for a vote on the 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:38.440 board that item passes six to zero brings us to item 4f fr 26 - three 01:22:42.480 --> 01:22:49.320 giving Commission again assistant planner I'm here presenting this final replat I 01:22:49.320 --> 01:22:54.080 was associated with the subdivision variance that we just approved and since 01:22:54.080 --> 01:22:59.360 PNC did vote to approve that subdivision variance staff is recommending approval 01:22:59.360 --> 01:23:07.760 of this replat as it would meet all the required requirements of the DDC thank 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:12.920 you and this would be refer to the the version of the plot that was emailed to 01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:18.960 the commissioners this afternoon okay Commissioner Kettreson I recommend 01:23:18.960 --> 01:23:24.960 approval for this final plat and Commissioner Dyer I'd like to second 01:23:24.960 --> 01:23:32.400 that motion and seeing no discussion having a motion and a second I'll call 01:23:32.400 --> 01:23:46.840 for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to item 4g mp 26 - 01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:56.040 four good evening Commission here to present a final plot of lots one and two 01:23:56.040 --> 01:24:02.800 block a was that Zipetta edition located in the city's ETJ off of Gribble Springs 01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:08.080 Road and north of Shepherd Road at this time this plat doesn't meet our 01:24:08.080 --> 01:24:12.440 criteria for approval however staff has no objection to their first extension 01:24:12.440 --> 01:24:19.880 requests to a date certain of April 29th Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like them to 01:24:19.880 --> 01:24:24.920 make a motion to approve a first extension to a date certain of April 29th 01:24:24.920 --> 01:24:29.880 2026 which would be in agreement with the staff recommendation and Commissioner 01:24:29.880 --> 01:24:33.960 Garland and I'll second that recommendation having a first and second 01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:47.800 and seeing no discussion call for a vote on the board that item passes six zero 01:24:47.800 --> 01:25:00.320 moves us to item 4h FP 26 - eight good evening Julie Wyatt principal planner 01:25:00.320 --> 01:25:05.800 of the city of Denton I'm presenting FP 26 eight to you this evening this is a 01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:11.560 single lot located on the south side of Vintage Road just east of I 35 West the 01:25:11.560 --> 01:25:16.160 purpose of it is sorry it's two lots the purpose of it is for a charter school 01:25:16.160 --> 01:25:23.160 and then a commercial lot for future development your your agenda posted had 01:25:23.160 --> 01:25:27.440 a staff recommendation of denial they still had some final items to work 01:25:27.440 --> 01:25:31.200 through however they have worked through those with staff and so staff has 01:25:31.200 --> 01:25:34.800 changed its recommendation to approval you should have received that revised 01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:43.040 plat today so I'll be happy to answer any questions any questions Commissioner 01:25:43.040 --> 01:25:49.360 McDuff yes that's why thank you for that information want to make a motion to 01:25:49.360 --> 01:25:54.680 agree with staff recommendation for approval and Commissioner Dyer I'll 01:25:54.680 --> 01:26:00.120 second that motion having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion call 01:26:00.120 --> 01:26:15.840 for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to four I FP 26 - 12 01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:20.680 good evening this is a final plot for an industrial development the property is 01:26:20.680 --> 01:26:28.120 located just east of I 35 south of highway 77 and north of loot 288 they at 01:26:28.120 --> 01:26:32.120 this time the plot does not comply with our criteria for approval so staff is 01:26:32.120 --> 01:26:35.800 recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested first 01:26:35.800 --> 01:26:40.920 extension to April 29th and I'll be happy to answer any questions 01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:47.960 Commissioner Kutcher said a motion to approve their recommended the requested 01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:53.520 extension to a date of April 29 2026 Commissioner Garland and I will second 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:58.200 that extension having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll 01:26:58.200 --> 01:27:01.320 call for a vote on the board 01:27:01.320 --> 01:27:14.160 that item passes six zero brings us to our last item for individual 01:27:14.160 --> 01:27:23.960 consideration for JFP 26 - for Canadian Chair and Commission this is for the 01:27:23.960 --> 01:27:28.680 final plot for landmark phase two north it is approximately 184 acre site 01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:33.120 generally located north the north side of Robson Ranch Road approximately one 01:27:33.120 --> 01:27:38.440 mile west of I 35 West at this time staff has no objection to the first 01:27:38.440 --> 01:27:44.640 requested extension as they do not meet the current criteria for approval but we 01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:48.880 are looking at an extension date to a certain of April 29 2026 I can say for 01:27:48.880 --> 01:27:58.360 any questions I guess I have one we earlier we had one that we had the date 01:27:58.360 --> 01:28:03.400 wrong for an extension do applicants have the ability to ask for an extension 01:28:03.400 --> 01:28:09.160 that's longer than the next meeting they only have this so so for bigger ones 01:28:09.160 --> 01:28:13.360 where there's more things to address we just have to keep coming back okay thank 01:28:13.360 --> 01:28:19.120 you Commissioner Dyer I would like to go with staff recommendation and extend 01:28:19.120 --> 01:28:25.640 this petition to April 29th meeting Commissioner Kutcher said I second that 01:28:25.640 --> 01:28:30.520 motion with a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for a 01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:41.200 vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our public hearings this 01:28:41.200 --> 01:28:49.240 evening first public hearing is 5 a HL 26 - one Canadian Chair and Commission 01:28:49.240 --> 01:28:58.360 Cameron Robertson historic preservation officer I stated this is a historic this 01:28:58.360 --> 01:29:03.040 is a request for a historic landmark designation at 1403 Kendal Drive it is 01:29:03.040 --> 01:29:06.880 located approximately 370 feet north of the intersection of Kendall Drive and 01:29:06.880 --> 01:29:10.860 Whippoorwill Lane the owners are Jennifer and David Morales and the 01:29:10.860 --> 01:29:16.800 construction days 1959 the property itself is located within that Denia 01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:21.320 neighborhood it is an R3 zoning it is currently a rental property and it sits 01:29:21.320 --> 01:29:28.800 on approximately 3.23 acres so looking this is looking at the property from 01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:33.720 that front west facade and then it also shows that rear east facade there and 01:29:33.720 --> 01:29:40.240 then we're also looking at the north and south facades of the property so before 01:29:40.240 --> 01:29:45.480 I dive into staffs analysis looking specifically at section 2.9.4 B I did 01:29:45.480 --> 01:29:50.500 just want to point to the AIS that backup packet in referring to the work 01:29:50.500 --> 01:29:55.880 session question I just wanted to note that for historic landmark designation 01:29:55.880 --> 01:30:01.880 process it is not subject to compliance with our criteria in 2.4.5 E of our 01:30:01.880 --> 01:30:05.120 debt and development code which specifically calls out minimizing 01:30:05.120 --> 01:30:10.200 fiscal impact and criteria so just want to make note of that that specifically 01:30:10.200 --> 01:30:13.720 for historic landmark designations we're solely looking at the criteria in 01:30:13.720 --> 01:30:21.120 section 2.9.4 B listed here so going into staffs analysis 1403 01:30:21.120 --> 01:30:25.520 Kendall Drive does meet the following it meets criteria one which looks at that 01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:29.120 character interest or value as part of the development heritage or cultural 01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:33.720 characteristics of the city state or the United States criteria three reflects a 01:30:33.720 --> 01:30:38.160 distinguishing characteristic of an architectural type or specimen criteria 01:30:38.160 --> 01:30:42.880 four identification as the work of an architecture master builder criteria 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:47.320 nine exemplification of the cultural economic social ethnic or historical 01:30:47.320 --> 01:30:51.400 heritage of the city criteria 11 identification with a person who 01:30:51.400 --> 01:30:54.640 significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city state or the 01:30:54.640 --> 01:30:58.480 United States and then lastly criteria 12 a building a structure that because of 01:30:58.480 --> 01:31:02.920 its location has become a value to a neighborhood community area or the city 01:31:02.920 --> 01:31:09.080 so I kind of grouped criteria one three and nine they're all very similar so I 01:31:09.080 --> 01:31:14.360 wanted to show those on one slide so this property specifically 1403 01:31:14.360 --> 01:31:18.800 Kendall it shows how Denton especially during this time as post World War two 01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:22.620 we saw it embrace that kind of mid-century trend especially in the 01:31:22.620 --> 01:31:26.480 Denia neighborhood as a whole we saw a lot of innovative designs kind of that 01:31:26.480 --> 01:31:30.600 international mid-century design style we saw a lot of servant suburban style 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:35.080 where we see that attached carport we also saw the integration a lot of 01:31:35.080 --> 01:31:39.120 natural landscapes so a lot of large windows a lot of window walls and a lot 01:31:39.120 --> 01:31:44.440 of natural light as stated it captured a lot of those distinguishing elements of 01:31:44.440 --> 01:31:49.120 mid-century modern design so that indoor outdoor flow we have that we have also 01:31:49.120 --> 01:31:52.600 seen with some of the other Denia properties that have come forward for 01:31:52.600 --> 01:31:59.800 designation specifically on Willow wood we also have that natural light and then 01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:03.040 some of those exposed structural elements trying to show the innovation of 01:32:03.040 --> 01:32:08.320 the architectural style at that time it also shows once again dd neighborhood 01:32:08.320 --> 01:32:12.480 has a strong presence of mid-century modern homes we saw kind of see that 01:32:12.480 --> 01:32:18.040 modernism towards the 1960s late 1950s and just this is another example of a 01:32:18.040 --> 01:32:23.080 modernist architecture in Denia and this is specifically along Whippoorwill I'm 01:32:23.080 --> 01:32:28.240 looking at criteria for the property was designed by the Mount Miller architects 01:32:28.240 --> 01:32:32.640 Tom Polk Miller and Isabelle Mount and they became an architecture firm in 01:32:32.640 --> 01:32:37.960 1946 Mount Miller a lot of people are familiar with that name they designed and 01:32:37.960 --> 01:32:44.320 remodeled between 203 home 300 homes and commercial and institutional properties 01:32:44.320 --> 01:32:51.320 between 1953 and 2000 within Denton and a lot within Denia so some of the exam 01:32:51.320 --> 01:32:55.480 noted examples of Mount Miller work in Denton we have the Denton Unitarian 01:32:55.480 --> 01:33:00.720 Universalist Fellowship we have 1900 Westridge Drive which was designated in 01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:08.600 2024 and then we have 2012 26 Kendall Drive and then looking at approval 01:33:08.600 --> 01:33:12.960 criteria 11 the original owner who actually worked with Mount Miller to 01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:18.400 design the property is dr. Hiram J Freedman he served in the US Marine Corps 01:33:18.400 --> 01:33:23.800 during and after World War two he had a long career at UNT as professor and 01:33:23.800 --> 01:33:28.160 administrator he was the chair of the sociology department he was the first 01:33:28.160 --> 01:33:32.880 chair of UNT Center for Studies in aging he also served on the White House 01:33:32.880 --> 01:33:40.000 conferences on aging in 1961 1971 in 1981 and he also has an award at the 01:33:40.000 --> 01:33:47.720 national level named after him lastly looking at approval criteria 12 a lot of 01:33:47.720 --> 01:33:51.800 people have started to kind of associate Denia with these mid-century modern 01:33:51.800 --> 01:33:56.420 homes specifically this property this property has been called out in walking 01:33:56.420 --> 01:34:01.000 tours you see here the map from 2023 this was a walking tour of historic 01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:05.340 preservation in that neighborhood and then that was done by the county and then 01:34:05.340 --> 01:34:09.080 we have a screenshot here of a video that was done on a walking tour last 01:34:09.080 --> 01:34:14.960 year during historic preservation month for Denton revealed in 2025 so as I say 01:34:14.960 --> 01:34:19.680 it's been featured in lots of public architectural tours and it's kind of 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:28.160 part of that core group of Mount Miller homes in that area so staffs analysis 01:34:28.160 --> 01:34:31.720 also looked at our 2019 historic preservation plan as well as our Denton 01:34:31.720 --> 01:34:36.760 2040 comprehensive plan specifically looking at goal one policy 1.3 and goal 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:43.260 goal community character - - public outreach was done newspaper postings 01:34:43.260 --> 01:34:47.760 website postings and property sign were posted in March mail notices went to 01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:54.600 200 feet went to 25 people 500 or 156 notices we do not receive any responses 01:34:54.600 --> 01:34:59.200 in opposition in favor or neutral so staff is recommending approval of the 01:34:59.200 --> 01:35:02.440 request for a historic landmark designation of the property located at 01:35:02.440 --> 01:35:08.080 1403 Kindle drive as it doesn't meet our approval criteria historic landmark 01:35:08.080 --> 01:35:12.120 Christian did recommend approval 7-0 and the next steps would be going to City 01:35:12.120 --> 01:35:18.600 Council on April 21st 2026 and I can stand for any questions thank you this 01:35:18.600 --> 01:35:26.960 is a public hearing so I will open the public hearing at this time Cameron let 01:35:26.960 --> 01:35:35.080 me let me ask with the update that you gave after the work session on the the 01:35:35.080 --> 01:35:41.640 lists of criteria that the planning and zoning should consider for these items 01:35:41.640 --> 01:35:50.360 I see the new list in two nine four D where is it called out that the standard 01:35:50.360 --> 01:35:55.640 list of criteria should not apply for these applications so that is 01:35:55.640 --> 01:36:14.920 specifically it's a big development going you don't have to apologize so it's 01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:20.320 specifically just listed on our section two point nine point four B stating that 01:36:20.320 --> 01:36:25.280 the HPO and the HLC shall HLC compliance with one of the following criteria and 01:36:25.280 --> 01:36:30.200 that's under I believe it's also listed our historic landmark and historic 01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:39.360 preservation procedures earlier in that chapter okay so this is a public hearing 01:36:39.360 --> 01:36:47.800 I I will ask I have one card in support but an agenda item is not indicated from 01:36:47.800 --> 01:36:53.560 mr. Donald McDade is that for the next one okay just wanted to check so I don't 01:36:53.560 --> 01:36:59.120 have any cards to speak or in opposition or support at this time but if you would 01:36:59.120 --> 01:37:06.320 like to speak you can come down at this time not seeing anyone I will close the 01:37:06.320 --> 01:37:15.600 public hearing Commissioner catch his head I motion to approve the historic 01:37:15.600 --> 01:37:34.200 landmark designation and Commissioner McDade they will be able to come back 01:37:34.200 --> 01:37:39.560 and request tax exemption for this property as long as they have spent a 01:37:39.560 --> 01:37:44.560 minimum of $10,000 on the property for improvement and/or restoration to the 01:37:44.560 --> 01:37:48.520 project art to the property itself so with the owners submit documentation 01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:52.400 invoices from yes they would have to submit documentation showing that 01:37:52.400 --> 01:37:56.120 they've received building permits that they followed all proper city procedures 01:37:56.120 --> 01:38:01.320 if they are required to get a building permit and they would submit that to 01:38:01.320 --> 01:38:05.280 staff staff would review that and then it would go through to the historic 01:38:05.280 --> 01:38:08.640 landmark Commission and the City Council for final approval and then with that 01:38:08.640 --> 01:38:13.540 designation remained yes unless the property owner chose to remove the 01:38:13.540 --> 01:38:22.440 designation in the future thank you I'm gonna go ahead and take the she asked 01:38:22.440 --> 01:38:29.360 specifically designation we do have a second on the board so I'm gonna take 01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:33.640 that before the other request to speak but we'll we'll get to everybody I 01:38:33.640 --> 01:38:38.360 promise Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to put a formal second on the floor 01:38:38.360 --> 01:38:49.240 please thank you and Commissioner Dyer um so are the applicants here yes 01:38:49.240 --> 01:38:54.000 applicants are here okay so just a quick question I know we kind of talked about 01:38:54.000 --> 01:39:02.640 this in earlier if they get this designation and they apply for the 01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:07.280 historical tax exemptions I know you said that was just on city taxes unless 01:39:07.280 --> 01:39:12.560 they get it correct from or get approval from the federal or the state correct 01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:18.800 correct and because this is not their primary residents when it's not a 01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:25.160 primary residence they do probably are paying more in property taxes to all the 01:39:25.160 --> 01:39:30.800 entities to county school and city so there is going to be a significant 01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:35.440 amount on this one property that they could possibly not have to pay correct 01:39:35.440 --> 01:39:39.200 potentially I don't have the numbers in front of me and that's all up to denton 01:39:39.200 --> 01:39:44.840 CAD but I will note that we do have other former residences that are 01:39:44.840 --> 01:39:51.040 historic or their landmarks locally that have businesses in them or income 01:39:51.040 --> 01:39:57.400 producing that are utilizing that tax exemption and how many in this DNA 01:39:57.400 --> 01:40:05.440 community have this this designation to other communities to other properties to 01:40:05.440 --> 01:40:16.040 other properties okay thank you any other questions or discussion I guess I 01:40:16.040 --> 01:40:31.000 have one the sorry is it's more of a comment than a question sorry to go a 01:40:31.000 --> 01:40:40.920 little field a little bit here you know in a lot of these historical designation 01:40:41.240 --> 01:40:48.000 applications I I have a hard time viewing or understanding the relative 01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:56.480 value of one property versus another in this case I think there's precedent here 01:40:56.480 --> 01:41:08.200 of the prior tours of this area and and two other properties of this ilk to 01:41:08.200 --> 01:41:16.360 support the continued designation in this area I'll say that I I disagree with 01:41:16.360 --> 01:41:27.320 staff's analysis that the the traditional or or the the basic criteria 01:41:27.320 --> 01:41:34.360 for approval for all items does not apply here I think it does so I think 01:41:34.360 --> 01:41:46.040 fiscal impacts is fair game I I'm in general concerned that our policy opens 01:41:46.040 --> 01:41:50.360 up the situation where higher value landowners can do something very minor 01:41:50.360 --> 01:41:57.880 and get a very large tax exemption however in this case that's not what has 01:41:57.880 --> 01:42:07.240 happened there has been major you know to to the beam investment in this 01:42:07.240 --> 01:42:14.080 property to be able to preserve it I watched the HLC meeting on this and and 01:42:14.080 --> 01:42:19.280 it was pretty clear the the extent of the process that the property owners 01:42:19.280 --> 01:42:26.480 have gone through and now I remember my question to you so with that said it is 01:42:26.480 --> 01:42:38.360 HLC looking at this historic designation and tax credit policy at a broader level 01:42:38.360 --> 01:42:43.960 to to make sure that we are incentivizing it to the correct degree 01:42:43.960 --> 01:42:48.040 with those requirements is that something on their matrix that's 01:42:48.040 --> 01:42:53.880 something that HLC was working on from 2024 to 2025 but with the budget deficit 01:42:53.880 --> 01:43:00.720 that were experienced that was put on pause okay I appreciate that I know we 01:43:00.720 --> 01:43:09.360 can't all do three people's work I guess I'll just say I'll be supporting this 01:43:09.360 --> 01:43:18.400 however I would hope that staff would include some clear messaging from what 01:43:18.400 --> 01:43:23.880 what you all have heard from the board at the work session and here in this 01:43:23.880 --> 01:43:31.580 session in order for them to understand the the concerns around the relative 01:43:31.580 --> 01:43:37.320 benefit versus the cost and whether that's well calibrated so Commissioner 01:43:37.320 --> 01:43:44.040 Dyer in looking back at some of the notes that were included in our exhibits 01:43:44.040 --> 01:43:50.480 with the agenda I noticed it did have kind of the breakdown of the committee's 01:43:50.480 --> 01:43:54.320 recommendation and it like you said it was seven to zero were there any 01:43:54.320 --> 01:43:58.440 concerns whether you know they're similar to chair Pruitt's or maybe 01:43:58.440 --> 01:44:01.960 similar to mine about you know the the tax exemptions and kind of taking 01:44:01.960 --> 01:44:06.760 advantage of that because even though you can still kind of object of some 01:44:06.760 --> 01:44:11.280 things or have some concerns but still vote to approve it but those exact 01:44:11.280 --> 01:44:14.600 discussions aren't in there it just says there was a discussion that took place 01:44:14.600 --> 01:44:18.080 so was there any concerns by the committee so there were no concerns 01:44:18.080 --> 01:44:22.480 regarding the tax assumptions the only concern that they had is that the 01:44:22.480 --> 01:44:27.080 property owner did with their renovations and looking at the historic 01:44:27.080 --> 01:44:30.880 construction plans they did add an additional awning in the back just to 01:44:30.880 --> 01:44:35.960 cover the porch and they did change up some of the landscaping in the front so 01:44:35.960 --> 01:44:40.760 they just wanted to ensure that they met the rest of the criteria and then that 01:44:40.760 --> 01:44:44.920 would not affect them with those additional additions and so staff walked 01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:47.520 them kind of through that if those additions were to be removed it would 01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:51.120 still be the exact same footprint and the same construction that was done back 01:44:51.120 --> 01:44:59.560 in 1959 okay thank you of course and Commissioner McDade do the repairs have 01:44:59.560 --> 01:45:05.440 to be done before during or after the designation so do they have to get the 01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:09.200 designation first then do the repairs or do they have to have to have them done 01:45:09.200 --> 01:45:15.260 before they have to have the so in this case the renovation and the restoration 01:45:15.260 --> 01:45:20.760 project took place between 2013 to 2014 so is a year-long process so they are 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:24.360 coming about 12 years after the renovation and restoration process to 01:45:24.360 --> 01:45:33.440 apply for this designation but 12 years yep so once they if they were to go 01:45:33.440 --> 01:45:38.000 through City Council and be approved for a designation then they would be able to 01:45:38.000 --> 01:45:43.640 utilize any work that they've done for the two years leading up to this 01:45:43.640 --> 01:45:48.160 designation to utilize towards their tax exemption application if they sought to 01:45:48.160 --> 01:46:00.080 seek that and Commissioner Dyer do you have something else okay no worries any 01:46:00.080 --> 01:46:07.360 other discussion or questions from the Commission Commissioner McDuff I'm gonna 01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:12.280 wrap this back around to neighborhoods in just a little history on top of it as 01:46:12.280 --> 01:46:19.400 a and take this as a comment for my support of this proposal and that is if 01:46:19.400 --> 01:46:23.880 you were indenting back in the day during this time and you were in education 01:46:23.880 --> 01:46:28.560 you know who dr. Friedson was so this would be an honor to support this I had 01:46:28.560 --> 01:46:33.640 the good fortune of studying in the summer in the Center for Aging so I'm 01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:45.960 very familiar with him and his works his national reputation did just want to 01:46:45.960 --> 01:46:50.080 remind the Commission that what's before you tonight is just the designation that 01:46:50.080 --> 01:46:53.800 should be looked at on the historic merit of the property itself if the 01:46:53.800 --> 01:46:56.640 owner does apply for that tax exemption that will go to City Council for their 01:46:56.640 --> 01:47:04.400 consideration as a separate item in the future thank you yeah all I ask is that 01:47:04.400 --> 01:47:09.000 our discussion be faithfully represented as I know staff always does a good job 01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:15.760 of not seeing any more discussion I'll call for a vote on the board on this 01:47:15.760 --> 01:47:28.720 item and this item passes 6 to 0 springs us to our final public hearing of the 01:47:28.720 --> 01:47:33.800 evening so thank you for everyone being patient for the rest of the items on our 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:46.120 agenda let me call them sorry item 5b DCA 26 - - I'll make a brief statement just 01:47:46.120 --> 01:47:49.880 to the the members of the public first of all thank you for coming thank you 01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:57.280 for being engaged I would just ask that know that everyone up here is eager to 01:47:57.280 --> 01:48:03.120 understand what your hopes and dreams or concerns or confusion or questions are 01:48:03.120 --> 01:48:09.760 but we will be much better informed if when you come up to speak if you so 01:48:09.760 --> 01:48:14.880 choose that you would be very clear about the provisions that staff is about 01:48:14.880 --> 01:48:23.040 to explain that concern you or the things that you are concerned about that 01:48:23.040 --> 01:48:29.040 were not spoken to because then we can take direct action and better understand 01:48:29.040 --> 01:48:33.440 what those things are so please do 01:48:33.440 --> 01:48:38.360 good evening 01:48:38.360 --> 01:48:46.720 all right I'm Julie Wyatt this is DCA 26 to South East Denton overlay 01:48:46.720 --> 01:48:51.920 districts I'm gonna kick this off and then me'll come in and she'll she'll do 01:48:51.920 --> 01:48:58.280 the the second half of the presentation so we are here tonight because in 2024 01:48:58.280 --> 01:49:04.440 the City Council approved an area plan for southeastern as part of that area 01:49:04.440 --> 01:49:09.800 plan we had a tremendous amount of public engagement residents and 01:49:09.800 --> 01:49:14.000 stakeholders communicated to us that they were concerned about community 01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:20.760 protection and neighborhood protection and also providing some some additional 01:49:20.760 --> 01:49:25.220 benefits in terms of in terms of businesses that could be brought back to 01:49:25.220 --> 01:49:30.920 the Prairie Street area and taking that information from the community the 01:49:30.920 --> 01:49:36.920 Southeast Denton area plan has three has three action items related to this so 01:49:36.920 --> 01:49:39.720 I'm going to talk first about what the what the overlays are and then we'll 01:49:39.720 --> 01:49:43.240 talk about those action items so tonight we are proposing to amend Denton 01:49:43.240 --> 01:49:48.120 development core didn't development code sub chapter 4 to establish three new 01:49:48.120 --> 01:49:52.200 overlay districts in Southeast Denton to implement the Southeast Denton area plan 01:49:52.200 --> 01:49:57.920 first we have the height limitation over to overlay district that is intended to 01:49:57.920 --> 01:50:03.120 limit the heights in that area in blue the community was very concerned about 01:50:03.120 --> 01:50:06.800 town downtown style development encroaching into Southeast Denton 01:50:06.800 --> 01:50:11.720 especially adjacent to the neighborhoods so that height overlay is there to try 01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:15.240 to create a more gentle direct transition between the residential areas 01:50:15.240 --> 01:50:20.640 and the DCTA facility on the live work overlay district that is to protect 01:50:20.640 --> 01:50:25.680 residential homes while adding in some some small businesses in the community 01:50:25.680 --> 01:50:29.280 Mia knows a lot more about that and she's going to talk to you about that in 01:50:29.280 --> 01:50:32.960 a little while and then the residential overlay and that is intended to protect 01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:37.520 the character of the neighborhoods of Southeast Denton by encouraging a 01:50:37.520 --> 01:50:42.000 compatible architectural design as well as building scale for new structures so 01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:47.760 and that's that area in yellow so after we set the table talk a little bit about 01:50:47.760 --> 01:50:52.200 why we're doing this the Southeast Denton area plan as I said was adopted 01:50:52.200 --> 01:50:59.520 in July of 2024 as part of that there were six goals that that that based upon 01:50:59.520 --> 01:51:05.360 community engagement and input were in were embedded within the plan we won't 01:51:05.360 --> 01:51:09.880 talk about all six tonight just the three we're talking about our honor the 01:51:09.880 --> 01:51:13.920 culture and heritage of Southeast Denton invest in economic prosperity and 01:51:13.920 --> 01:51:18.320 strengthen neighborhoods and housing affordability in order to achieve those 01:51:18.320 --> 01:51:23.920 goals that the community said that they would like to see for the future of 01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:28.040 Southeast Denton there are those three tasks and those are related to these 01:51:28.040 --> 01:51:34.360 overlay districts and they're on your screen right there before we go into the 01:51:34.360 --> 01:51:38.320 deep dive on what we're actually proposing just a little bit about overlay 01:51:38.320 --> 01:51:43.240 districts I know everybody knows this but just a reminder overlay districts are 01:51:43.240 --> 01:51:48.080 tools to implement area plans they sit on top of the existing zoning and they 01:51:48.080 --> 01:51:53.760 they those regulations for the existing zoning stay in place except for those 01:51:53.760 --> 01:52:00.200 things that the overlay changes so it often enhances those zoning regulations 01:52:00.200 --> 01:52:04.560 they often require substantial coordination between staff community and 01:52:04.560 --> 01:52:09.920 stakeholders and and so in order to make sure we get those overlay districts 01:52:09.920 --> 01:52:16.940 correct we talked about in work session public engagement throughout the 18 01:52:16.940 --> 01:52:20.480 months that we worked on the Southeast Denton area plan we had 40 engagement 01:52:20.480 --> 01:52:28.320 opportunities we talked to about 529 folks throughout the the process after 01:52:28.320 --> 01:52:31.880 adoption and as we started to move forward with these overlay districts we 01:52:31.880 --> 01:52:37.920 we had a block block party in in southeastern in March of last year to 01:52:37.920 --> 01:52:41.240 have some additional surveys to confirm that we were on the right track in terms 01:52:41.240 --> 01:52:46.760 of where we needed to go those draft overlay regulations went to 01:52:46.760 --> 01:52:51.680 Juneteenth last summer as well as some community workshops last fall we had 01:52:51.680 --> 01:52:55.960 community workshops not only for residents of Southeast Denton but also 01:52:55.960 --> 01:53:00.040 for those non owner occupied property owners to make sure that we talk to all 01:53:00.040 --> 01:53:06.600 folks we also had online surveys as well as we said no meetings boards and flyers 01:53:06.600 --> 01:53:13.840 at the MLK and American Legion and then emails and calls so we're going to first 01:53:13.840 --> 01:53:18.660 talk about the residential overlay so that is that area in yellow and again 01:53:18.660 --> 01:53:22.560 this is intended to maintain the scale and character of neighborhoods while 01:53:22.560 --> 01:53:29.040 fostering community investment so what we heard during the Southeast Denton area 01:53:29.040 --> 01:53:34.740 plan preparation is that maintaining the single-family uses and protected 01:53:34.740 --> 01:53:39.240 neighborhood scale and character were of utmost important with for community 01:53:39.240 --> 01:53:45.640 members we also through our data collection learned that there are 60 01:53:45.640 --> 01:53:50.760 acres of privately held land that are potentially developable in Southeast 01:53:50.760 --> 01:53:55.640 Denton that provides an opportunity but it also can cause some concern and what 01:53:55.640 --> 01:54:00.160 we wanted to do is make sure that we had the proper regulations in place so that 01:54:00.160 --> 01:54:04.060 anything that would be developed on that property would be consistent with the 01:54:04.060 --> 01:54:11.840 community's vision so taking that information we we went we did a 01:54:11.840 --> 01:54:15.480 windshield survey of the community so the planning department drove around 01:54:15.480 --> 01:54:18.760 Southeast Denton and looked at all of the different facets associated with the 01:54:18.760 --> 01:54:24.400 architecture things like building scale architectural details architectural 01:54:24.400 --> 01:54:28.920 styles what what types of elements were were found on the homes in Southeast 01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:32.720 Denton we compiled that information and that is what we took to the block party 01:54:32.720 --> 01:54:37.880 with a series of questions and surveys about hey do you want more of this or is 01:54:37.880 --> 01:54:41.320 this what you want and to try to get feedback from the community about what 01:54:41.320 --> 01:54:45.600 they would like to encourage or what they would like to see the regulations 01:54:45.600 --> 01:54:51.840 today are based upon that feedback as well as other feedback so we combined 01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:59.800 that information with with kind of what what the intent for the residential 01:54:59.800 --> 01:55:04.920 overlay was and and really it falls into three buckets we want to know what the 01:55:04.920 --> 01:55:09.760 applicability is so who it applies to we want to make sure the building scale is 01:55:09.760 --> 01:55:12.480 consistent with what the community wants and we also want to make sure the 01:55:12.480 --> 01:55:16.780 architecture is the same is what the community would like to see so first we 01:55:16.780 --> 01:55:20.520 want it we looked at the existing zoning to see what was in place to make sure 01:55:20.520 --> 01:55:27.360 that their regulations adequately addressed what what what wasn't what 01:55:27.360 --> 01:55:34.240 wasn't desired in the existing zoning so Southeast Denton for them for the vast 01:55:34.240 --> 01:55:40.720 majority of the of the residential neighborhoods is our four district that 01:55:40.720 --> 01:55:45.120 allows for a maximum building height the 40 feet and it's primarily single family 01:55:45.120 --> 01:55:49.200 but it would allow townhomes or duplexes with approval from City Council through 01:55:49.200 --> 01:55:54.320 the specific use process there is a portion of our three and Southeast 01:55:54.320 --> 01:55:59.920 Denton again maximum 40 foot height single family our seven 40 feet height 01:55:59.920 --> 01:56:05.240 and it provides it allows for a variety of residential uses as well as some 01:56:05.240 --> 01:56:09.720 very limited commercial uses we see that a little bit along Prairie and along 01:56:09.720 --> 01:56:13.600 Dallas or near Dallas Drive and then we've also have a little bit of mixed 01:56:13.600 --> 01:56:17.800 use neighborhood around Robertson Street and that also allows that 40 feet based 01:56:17.800 --> 01:56:22.240 upon its context and then we have planned development for a little bit in 01:56:22.240 --> 01:56:26.640 Southeast Denton and also public facilities the public facilities are 01:56:26.640 --> 01:56:31.440 things like the parks the semia is the school so we knew we had a bit you know 01:56:31.440 --> 01:56:37.240 a maximum height the 40 feet which you could potentially build a three-story 01:56:37.240 --> 01:56:43.960 building or two and a half story building with that height but the 01:56:43.960 --> 01:56:48.800 community said that really one to two story buildings were most appropriate 01:56:48.800 --> 01:56:53.120 for Southeast Denton so we're proposing to lower the maximum height within the 01:56:53.120 --> 01:56:57.700 Southeast Denton residential overlay to 30 feet that would still allow a two 01:56:57.700 --> 01:57:03.000 story home but it wouldn't allow those those structures to go up to three 01:57:03.000 --> 01:57:08.200 three stories the maximum height proposed height for accessory structures 01:57:08.200 --> 01:57:12.600 like garages accessory accessory dwelling units would be 20 feet as 01:57:12.600 --> 01:57:18.320 proposed and that would allow one and a half stories we also looked at 01:57:18.320 --> 01:57:22.680 architectural character we have regulations within the Denton 01:57:22.680 --> 01:57:27.640 development code that applies citywide to residential development it is looking 01:57:27.640 --> 01:57:31.680 at things like how much of the front facade can be in windows and doors what 01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:35.320 kinds of architectural interesting elements you have to have on the front 01:57:35.320 --> 01:57:41.520 of the of the structure how big the garage can be so those are things that 01:57:41.520 --> 01:57:47.200 apply to the city citywide but after doing the windshield survey and talking 01:57:47.200 --> 01:57:51.880 to the community we we and the special nature of Southeast Denton how unique it 01:57:51.880 --> 01:57:57.360 is in terms of of how it relates to the street how the streetscape and and the 01:57:57.360 --> 01:58:02.400 front porches we felt like this list probably wasn't consistent with what the 01:58:02.400 --> 01:58:08.320 community's vision was especially in terms of like recessed entries and other 01:58:08.320 --> 01:58:12.640 things that just wouldn't necessarily fit so we are proposing a different list 01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:19.000 of regulations and that would be that all new homes would would have to 01:58:19.000 --> 01:58:23.440 provide either a porch or a stoop and it would have to be usable so the porch 01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:28.360 would have to be either 25% of the ground floor facade and the stoop 24 01:58:28.360 --> 01:58:33.440 square feet we're also proposing to increase what what the windows and doors 01:58:33.440 --> 01:58:39.560 that that transparency in the front from 15 percent to 25 percent and as well as 01:58:39.560 --> 01:58:44.440 having three and a half inch trim around the windows that's more consistent with 01:58:44.440 --> 01:58:47.960 the bug bungalow and craftsman and in ranch style homes that you see in 01:58:47.960 --> 01:58:53.840 Southeast Denton roofs should be gabled hipped or a combination thereof that 01:58:53.840 --> 01:58:58.000 gabled is the is the point and then hipped are our roof lines that look like 01:58:58.000 --> 01:59:02.080 this there are other modern roof lines that houses can have things like flat 01:59:02.080 --> 01:59:06.880 roofs or mansard roofs but they aren't necessarily consistent with the with the 01:59:06.880 --> 01:59:10.160 architectural character of Southeast Denton where you've got more craftsmen 01:59:10.160 --> 01:59:16.120 bungalow and ranch style homes and then we are proposing that in addition to 01:59:16.120 --> 01:59:19.840 all of that two of the following architectural details would be 01:59:19.840 --> 01:59:24.840 required either dormers projection window like a bay window a split garage 01:59:24.840 --> 01:59:30.320 doors so if you had a front-facing garage door a split sort of a this is 01:59:30.320 --> 01:59:36.000 shown as the masonry column a railing or low wall enclosing the porch or stoop 01:59:36.000 --> 01:59:43.040 and then either multi-pane or mission style windows on the front facade so 01:59:43.040 --> 01:59:46.760 what would this apply to we talked about this and the Plains Zoning Commission 01:59:46.760 --> 01:59:50.640 may remember a quite a bit of discussion we had about this over the summer and 01:59:50.640 --> 01:59:56.440 fall is what should it apply to and and where staff has landed and what we're 01:59:56.440 --> 02:00:01.480 proposing is that it would apply to all new construction so of that 60 acres if 02:00:01.480 --> 02:00:05.280 if the property owner did want it to develop with with single-family homes or 02:00:05.280 --> 02:00:10.120 homes on it it would it would have to comply with the regulations if approved 02:00:10.120 --> 02:00:16.200 for expansions it's a maybe that you wouldn't have to change the front facade 02:00:16.200 --> 02:00:20.040 if it didn't have a porch you wouldn't have to add a porch but that the route 02:00:20.040 --> 02:00:24.320 the heights and the roof lines would would have to comply that way you still 02:00:24.320 --> 02:00:28.680 get sort of that that same scale that you find in Southeast Denton and then 02:00:28.680 --> 02:00:34.800 standard maintenance would not apply so that's the Southeast Denton residential 02:00:34.800 --> 02:00:37.840 overlay now we're gonna talk about the height overlay this one's really simple 02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:42.600 compared to that one so this is that area in blue if you recall that area in 02:00:42.600 --> 02:00:48.000 blue has zoning of public facilities and mixed-use neighborhood public facilities 02:00:48.000 --> 02:00:52.200 under current zoning can go up to a hundred feet and mixed-use neighborhood 02:00:52.200 --> 02:01:00.000 can go up to 65 feet if if if it's not adjacent to residential zoning or if 02:01:00.000 --> 02:01:03.600 it's adjacent to residential zoning and it gets a and the property owner gets 02:01:03.600 --> 02:01:09.040 approval of a specific use permit we're proposing to cap that at 40 feet so and 02:01:09.040 --> 02:01:14.960 and with no provision for additional height with an SUP so that way as as 02:01:14.960 --> 02:01:20.720 you're moving from the east to the west or or the south to the north adjacent to 02:01:20.720 --> 02:01:26.320 to these areas right here you would have the maximum building height in in the 02:01:26.320 --> 02:01:31.840 residential and then gradually move up to the 40 feet and that way it wouldn't 02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:38.600 the intent is not to have buildings just loom over the residential areas so with 02:01:38.600 --> 02:01:44.200 that I'm gonna have Mia come up and go over the live work 02:01:44.200 --> 02:01:51.280 thank you Julie Mia Hines senior planner good evening again chair members of the 02:01:51.280 --> 02:01:55.960 Commission I am going to talk to you about the live work overlay portion of 02:01:55.960 --> 02:02:00.640 what we are proposing this evening I start reminding you all just of the 02:02:00.640 --> 02:02:06.160 action from the liver that references the live work overlay district to remind 02:02:06.160 --> 02:02:10.600 you that the intent originally here was to establish a district that focused on 02:02:10.600 --> 02:02:15.400 allowing small mom-and-pop retail such as bookstores toy shops coffee shops 02:02:15.400 --> 02:02:20.240 things of that nature into a portion of a single-family home with a portion being 02:02:20.240 --> 02:02:24.400 used as a resident simultaneously and I'll keep that have that at the top here 02:02:24.400 --> 02:02:27.600 because what we are proposing is slightly different from that but the 02:02:27.600 --> 02:02:31.920 intent of it and the reason behind why it's different I'll explain here in a 02:02:31.920 --> 02:02:38.400 second so just Julie went over where we are talking about here but the live work 02:02:38.400 --> 02:02:43.280 overlay essentially covers properties along East Prairie Street between the 02:02:43.280 --> 02:02:48.480 cemetery and the railroad on the west side of Skinner Street and then 02:02:48.480 --> 02:02:51.440 properties along the north and south side of Robertson Street as well as the 02:02:51.440 --> 02:02:57.120 east and west side of Cook Street we have further subdivided this overlay into a 02:02:57.120 --> 02:03:01.560 couple of different sections based on the fact of the existing the collection 02:03:01.560 --> 02:03:05.600 of existing uses and some of the land use characteristics of the properties 02:03:05.600 --> 02:03:11.280 as they exist today as well as what we have in shown in our future land use on 02:03:11.280 --> 02:03:15.800 our future land use map as the future land use designations for these areas so 02:03:15.800 --> 02:03:19.260 that section a as you can see is approximately six acres just along East 02:03:19.260 --> 02:03:24.000 Prairie that is where you'll see that we're really trying to push for the 02:03:24.000 --> 02:03:29.720 reestablishment of the historic business district that Julie mentioned and allow 02:03:29.720 --> 02:03:34.440 for standalone businesses in that area section B is the has a moderate 02:03:34.440 --> 02:03:39.200 residential designation so you'll see more of mixed missing middle housing 02:03:39.200 --> 02:03:44.280 options available there and then section C is are really that low residential 02:03:44.280 --> 02:03:49.200 future land use designation area that's really intended to serve as a transition 02:03:49.200 --> 02:03:54.400 and just allow for live work and residential uses so I mentioned in the 02:03:54.400 --> 02:03:58.080 action that what we're proposing is slightly different from what the the 02:03:58.080 --> 02:04:04.480 language in the action leads us to propose and the reason for that is 02:04:04.480 --> 02:04:08.440 because we we established the live work dwelling as a part of the area planning 02:04:08.440 --> 02:04:13.000 process to come up with the sort of creative solution to reintegrate small 02:04:13.000 --> 02:04:17.320 business opportunities into the southeastern area this area like you 02:04:17.320 --> 02:04:21.400 said was identified as an area that historically had some small scale 02:04:21.400 --> 02:04:26.160 neighborhood type of businesses within it and we were tasked with just coming 02:04:26.160 --> 02:04:30.800 up with a creative solution and overlay to allow for businesses to be in this 02:04:30.800 --> 02:04:36.600 area again the live work dwelling overlay was our approach to that with 02:04:36.600 --> 02:04:40.520 the intent to hopefully start with the base of what a live work use is and then 02:04:40.520 --> 02:04:45.080 work from that to establish some standards that work specifically for the 02:04:45.080 --> 02:04:49.540 southeastern area well what we found when we looked further into how our DDC 02:04:49.540 --> 02:04:54.520 defines the live work dwelling use is that we require that for live work 02:04:54.520 --> 02:04:58.920 dwelling units the residential component should not exceed 50% the residential 02:04:58.920 --> 02:05:02.160 component should be located above or behind the non-residential portion 02:05:02.160 --> 02:05:05.520 residential dwelling unit must be a minimum of 400 square feet which is 02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:08.960 pretty standard and the non-residential use should be owned and operated by a 02:05:08.960 --> 02:05:15.640 resident of the of the residential portion and with that we found that in 02:05:15.640 --> 02:05:21.440 trying to address or trying to implement this as a land use it sort of 02:05:21.440 --> 02:05:27.000 contradicts what we have in the ICC and how that land use is defined in the ICC 02:05:27.000 --> 02:05:31.440 which ultimately kicks it into some higher regulations and some restrictions 02:05:31.440 --> 02:05:35.560 that ultimately defeats the purpose of why we were trying to integrate live 02:05:35.560 --> 02:05:40.920 work as a use within this area which was to allow for the reuse of some of the 02:05:40.920 --> 02:05:44.800 existing structures in that area and to really create more opportunities and 02:05:44.800 --> 02:05:50.520 remove some remove barriers not add on additional barriers to allow for small 02:05:50.520 --> 02:05:55.080 businesses to operate in this area. Mia sorry I'm not gonna butt in here just 02:05:55.080 --> 02:06:00.680 for the benefit of the public yes can you define the acronyms there of IBC IFC 02:06:00.680 --> 02:06:06.480 ICC yes apologies yes so ICC is the International Code Council and they are 02:06:06.480 --> 02:06:12.920 essentially what our from building safety purposes what our building safety 02:06:12.920 --> 02:06:17.720 team goes by to evaluate the safety of the structural safety of buildings 02:06:17.720 --> 02:06:24.200 within our city the IBC stands for International Building Code the IFC is 02:06:24.200 --> 02:06:28.520 International Fire Code and the IRC is International Residential Code and 02:06:28.520 --> 02:06:32.040 basically depending on how what your use is and what what you are doing in that 02:06:32.040 --> 02:06:36.800 building those different codes have different requirements and things that 02:06:36.800 --> 02:06:40.440 you have to do to your building to make sure that it's structurally sound and 02:06:40.440 --> 02:06:48.760 safe for that use. So we went back to the community and asked specifically what 02:06:48.760 --> 02:06:54.320 types of small business opportunities would they like to see within the area 02:06:54.320 --> 02:06:58.400 and what we heard from the community is shown here on your screen as far as 02:06:58.400 --> 02:07:04.040 support for the uses the community was generally in support of restaurants 02:07:04.040 --> 02:07:09.440 general retail personal service uses so those are your barbershops nail salons 02:07:09.440 --> 02:07:14.600 and things of that nature daycare and child child care support excuse me was 02:07:14.600 --> 02:07:19.400 something that we heard throughout the area planning process mobile food court 02:07:19.400 --> 02:07:23.120 was a place for gathering essentially but there was some concerns about noise 02:07:23.120 --> 02:07:26.880 and things of that nature so we have addressed that in this proposal as well 02:07:26.880 --> 02:07:31.080 and then other uses like business or trade school professional office self 02:07:31.080 --> 02:07:34.520 service laundry facility banks or financial institutions and medical 02:07:34.520 --> 02:07:38.640 offices the community we're generally okay with just again at a neighborhood 02:07:38.640 --> 02:07:47.960 scale. So with that in section A what we are proposing again with the 02:07:47.960 --> 02:07:52.840 characteristic of the the mixed-use neighborhood future land use designation 02:07:52.840 --> 02:07:56.600 the moderate residential there's some low-density residential in there we are 02:07:56.600 --> 02:08:01.360 proposing to allow for some of the uses those uses that are listed in the above 02:08:01.360 --> 02:08:07.720 to stand alone so what we have here and this is similar to what we see as the 02:08:07.720 --> 02:08:12.000 table of allowed uses within the DDC this is essentially the table of allowed 02:08:12.000 --> 02:08:17.080 uses for section A of the overlay so we are proposing to allow for those uses 02:08:17.080 --> 02:08:23.360 that I mentioned earlier we would propose or we are proposing to implement 02:08:23.360 --> 02:08:27.680 operational standards that would limit the hours of operation of businesses in 02:08:27.680 --> 02:08:32.800 this area from Monday through Thursday 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and then Friday through 02:08:32.800 --> 02:08:39.520 Sunday 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. as far as architectural standards for new new 02:08:39.520 --> 02:08:43.760 structures and new businesses they would have to apply to the residential 02:08:43.760 --> 02:08:47.420 architectural standards that Julie mentioned as a part of the residential 02:08:47.420 --> 02:08:51.720 overlay and then additionally any new business that locates within this area 02:08:51.720 --> 02:08:57.960 would have to construct a 8 foot tall double face face fence or director 02:08:57.960 --> 02:09:01.240 approved screening if there's like a line of trees or something like that 02:09:01.240 --> 02:09:05.240 that's there that provides for adequate screening and then additionally a 15 02:09:05.240 --> 02:09:10.000 foot wide landscape buffer between the non-residential use and the residential 02:09:10.000 --> 02:09:14.560 use that's adjacent to it so those general standards do apply to this 02:09:14.560 --> 02:09:18.600 section as well as the following two sections so keep those in mind hours of 02:09:18.600 --> 02:09:22.720 operation architectural standards and landscape standards would apply to all 02:09:22.720 --> 02:09:27.120 other sections this table and what we're proposing as standalone uses only 02:09:27.120 --> 02:09:34.120 applies to section a additionally we are proposing land use specific standards 02:09:34.120 --> 02:09:38.720 for these uses in section a for the most part these are simply I won't read 02:09:38.720 --> 02:09:42.600 through all of them the details provided in your backup for the most part these 02:09:42.600 --> 02:09:48.960 are max on the sizes that these uses can be again to maintain the neighborhood 02:09:48.960 --> 02:09:55.920 scale and still opening up that use one of the other special use land use 02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:59.600 specific standards is permitted hours of operations for daycares which would be 02:09:59.600 --> 02:10:05.280 6 a.m. to 8 p.m. daily if you look back at the hours of operation limits that 02:10:05.280 --> 02:10:09.560 we're placing on the area that is the earliest that you can drop off your kid 02:10:09.560 --> 02:10:16.480 would be 8 a.m. we figured that 6 a.m. time window gives parents a little bit 02:10:16.480 --> 02:10:20.080 more time in the morning to drop off kids while still respecting the later 02:10:20.080 --> 02:10:25.000 hours of operations for the sake of the residents and then finally like I 02:10:25.000 --> 02:10:28.600 mentioned earlier with the sort of contradiction of the live work dwelling 02:10:28.600 --> 02:10:34.360 unit as a what we have in our DDC versus what's in the ICC we've proposed some 02:10:34.360 --> 02:10:40.160 standards to sort of mitigate that to where a work live dwelling unit excuse 02:10:40.160 --> 02:10:47.240 me simply defers to how the IRC IBC RFC defines it and then you have to meet 02:10:47.240 --> 02:10:55.020 their requirements as far as building safety to ensure that that use can can 02:10:55.020 --> 02:10:59.680 operate there as far as section B and this is just a property along Skinner 02:10:59.680 --> 02:11:04.640 Street again we have that moderate residential future lanes designation so 02:11:04.640 --> 02:11:11.460 with this one what we are proposing is to allow for those missing middle housing 02:11:11.460 --> 02:11:17.000 types duplexes for plexus triplex is townhomes and again that work-live 02:11:17.000 --> 02:11:20.980 restriction like I said if you look at the general standards that we have here 02:11:20.980 --> 02:11:24.760 hours of operation architectural standards and landscape standards all of 02:11:24.760 --> 02:11:30.040 those are the same for this portion of the overlay and then again that work 02:11:30.040 --> 02:11:36.820 live dwelling unit just defers to the ICC and then finally in section C with 02:11:36.820 --> 02:11:41.000 along Robertson Street this is more of the transitional area with low 02:11:41.000 --> 02:11:46.120 residential and so this is essentially saying the same for the most part within 02:11:46.120 --> 02:11:50.280 the overlay simply deferring to whatever that underlying zoning is as far as 02:11:50.280 --> 02:11:56.760 permitted land uses and then allowing for that work live dwelling unit used to 02:11:56.760 --> 02:12:03.080 again defer to the ICC and be constructed in accordance with architectural 02:12:03.080 --> 02:12:10.040 standards and opera hours of operation of the rest of the live work overlay so 02:12:10.040 --> 02:12:14.520 that pretty much concludes what we're proposing for the for those three 02:12:14.520 --> 02:12:18.400 sections of this overlay with this project of course we did send out public 02:12:18.400 --> 02:12:25.440 notification to the entire majority of the entire overlay as well as 200 fit 02:12:25.440 --> 02:12:31.680 around it and 500 feet residents around it we received a few a couple of 02:12:31.680 --> 02:12:36.200 responses in favor and 15 responses in opposition that were forwarded to this 02:12:36.200 --> 02:12:44.800 body this afternoon with that staff is recommending approval of the southeast 02:12:44.800 --> 02:12:49.280 in overlay district as it is consistent with the southeast didn't actions and 02:12:49.280 --> 02:12:54.200 the criteria for approval in the DDC and I'm happy to stand for any questions I 02:12:54.200 --> 02:12:57.520 did have a couple of frequently asked questions based on some of the calls 02:12:57.520 --> 02:13:03.880 that we got from residents typically with us when what we've seen is we sent 02:13:03.880 --> 02:13:07.240 out the notices and response and then people have called trying just because 02:13:07.240 --> 02:13:11.240 the caption really can't answer everything that we try to explain here 02:13:11.240 --> 02:13:14.840 so they've had questions about what the details of the case are and in talking 02:13:14.840 --> 02:13:18.840 with them we've we come up with a list of frequently asked questions that we've 02:13:18.840 --> 02:13:21.920 gotten and maybe I know we're probably about to hear from some people from the 02:13:21.920 --> 02:13:27.120 audience but maybe could answer some of the questions that we might get this 02:13:27.120 --> 02:13:31.720 evening so why is the city proposing this Julie kind of did a really good job 02:13:31.720 --> 02:13:37.360 at introducing that into at the very beginning of this but essentially this 02:13:37.360 --> 02:13:41.440 comes comes from the southeast in the area plan we are proposing this as a 02:13:41.440 --> 02:13:45.440 result of the community engagement and the staff coordinated coordination to 02:13:45.440 --> 02:13:50.640 implement several actions from that plan what is that plan Julie again did a good 02:13:50.640 --> 02:13:55.560 job at sort of covering what that is but for the people in the as a reminder 02:13:55.560 --> 02:14:00.960 this is a document which aims to rebuild trust between the city and the community 02:14:00.960 --> 02:14:05.280 incorporate resident and stakeholder ideas and aspirations and provide 02:14:05.280 --> 02:14:09.800 recommendations for strategies and implementable action steps to address 02:14:09.800 --> 02:14:13.920 resident concerns encourage investment in the community while minimizing 02:14:13.920 --> 02:14:20.280 displacement and providing guidance for future land decisions is the city taking 02:14:20.280 --> 02:14:24.800 property and southeast didn't know that this is not a part of that is not a part 02:14:24.800 --> 02:14:30.160 of what this proposal is we are proposing this again as a result of the 02:14:30.160 --> 02:14:34.000 feedback that we've heard from the community essentially to add 02:14:34.000 --> 02:14:38.800 regulations to enhance the existing base zoning districts and if this is approved 02:14:38.800 --> 02:14:43.800 it will impact how private property owners can develop in Southeast didn't 02:14:43.800 --> 02:14:51.400 but again this is not the city taking or appropriating private property 02:14:51.400 --> 02:14:56.200 similarly we are not planning to we are not building homes as a part of this 02:14:56.200 --> 02:15:02.040 designation the purpose of this again is to implement the area plan which 02:15:02.040 --> 02:15:06.760 includes the protections of the architectural character so essentially 02:15:06.760 --> 02:15:10.480 sets regulations for people who are interested in building homes in 02:15:10.480 --> 02:15:14.920 Southeast didn't for those to look similar to what we already see in 02:15:14.920 --> 02:15:20.120 Southeast didn't will the overlay district allow multifamily no the said 02:15:20.120 --> 02:15:25.560 southeast residential overlay district regulates building design and height it 02:15:25.560 --> 02:15:30.720 does but does not allow higher density residential uses the small section of 02:15:30.720 --> 02:15:34.840 the South work Southeast didn't live work overlay district which does have 02:15:34.840 --> 02:15:39.560 moderate residential as a future lanes designation does allow for more of those 02:15:39.560 --> 02:15:44.800 missing middle housing types like townhomes duplexes and triplexes but 02:15:44.800 --> 02:15:50.080 again that is not multifamily that is a completely different use there and then 02:15:50.080 --> 02:15:53.440 finally will the southeast didn't overlay district increase traffic 02:15:53.440 --> 02:15:58.720 essentially the district doesn't isn't proposing to develop property like I've 02:15:58.720 --> 02:16:03.560 said in some of these answer they make the rules for private property owners to 02:16:03.560 --> 02:16:08.900 follow nevertheless didn't is growing and so traffic is increasing everywhere 02:16:08.900 --> 02:16:12.720 including Southeast didn't so we want to keep in mind that you know property 02:16:12.720 --> 02:16:16.540 private property owners have the right to develop their property in accordance 02:16:16.540 --> 02:16:21.280 with the regulations the latest regulations of things as didn't grows 02:16:21.280 --> 02:16:27.100 traffic will grow but we try our best in ways to mitigate that as much as 02:16:27.100 --> 02:16:33.960 possible sorry there are two more one other question I noticed that the 02:16:33.960 --> 02:16:38.720 overlay district didn't include all of the Southeast didn't area why well that 02:16:38.720 --> 02:16:43.560 was decided on in the area plan process and is specifically called out for the 02:16:43.560 --> 02:16:47.080 specific subject areas that we've approached today or that we propose 02:16:47.080 --> 02:16:50.800 today and then finally how does Southeast in the residential overlay 02:16:50.800 --> 02:16:55.960 impact the an existing home if you do not intend to tear down your home 02:16:55.960 --> 02:17:02.400 rebuild it or add on to it too much it should not impact you basically this 02:17:02.400 --> 02:17:09.280 regulation is intended to apply to new primary or accessory structures and only 02:17:09.280 --> 02:17:15.720 the height limit and roof forms applied to expansion of existing structures and 02:17:15.720 --> 02:17:19.560 regular maintenance of like facade and general things for your residential 02:17:19.560 --> 02:17:25.000 property are exempted from that so that that now concludes our presentation and 02:17:25.000 --> 02:17:31.880 happy to stand for any questions you have Julie is also to my left questions 02:17:31.880 --> 02:17:39.120 thank you Mia I will open the public hearing at this time Commission it's a 02:17:39.120 --> 02:17:45.240 lot to work through I'll just ask for specific questions of staff at this time 02:17:45.240 --> 02:17:49.320 for anything that that we want to kind of get out there so that the public as 02:17:49.320 --> 02:17:54.160 they come to speak can understand and respond to those things before we hear 02:17:54.160 --> 02:17:59.240 from them is there anything on that order commissioner catches it so if 02:17:59.240 --> 02:18:04.560 somebody wanted to do some home rehab or updates would they have to comply with 02:18:04.560 --> 02:18:13.200 this overlay no all existing homes would be conforming under this even if the 02:18:13.200 --> 02:18:17.680 front facade did not include all of those elements in the proposed overlay 02:18:17.680 --> 02:18:21.240 the only thing that would apply is if they were going to add like maybe a 02:18:21.240 --> 02:18:27.040 second story then or change the roof line we are proposing that that height 02:18:27.040 --> 02:18:34.600 limitation applied any expansions as well as the roof line okay any other 02:18:34.600 --> 02:18:44.880 questions Julie I have a few I'm gonna be that guy 02:18:45.280 --> 02:18:53.120 going through the southeast Stanton area plan gentrification is mentioned in 02:18:53.120 --> 02:18:59.400 several places that's a word that people think of different things when they see 02:18:59.400 --> 02:19:06.200 that word can you describe to us what the community conversations were about 02:19:06.200 --> 02:19:11.120 that and what aspects of gentrification were most concerning there was concern 02:19:11.120 --> 02:19:17.000 about gentrification and displacement throughout the area planning process you 02:19:17.000 --> 02:19:23.400 know it it starts fundamentally from from the events of Quaker town and the 02:19:23.400 --> 02:19:28.360 forced displacement of the residents of Quaker town and that that concern has 02:19:28.360 --> 02:19:34.320 has has stayed with the residents that as a very traumatic event for the 02:19:34.320 --> 02:19:43.320 community so so we're so that is kind of that basis additionally you know every 02:19:43.320 --> 02:19:47.400 year everyone's taxes go up or neighborhoods change we've had a lot of 02:19:47.400 --> 02:19:54.200 demographic changes in southeast Stanton so a lot is changing and and and so 02:19:54.200 --> 02:19:59.920 where the discussion landed is we wanted to to have a plan that encouraged 02:19:59.920 --> 02:20:04.720 actions that would allow anyone who wanted to live in southeast and could 02:20:04.720 --> 02:20:10.240 live there stay there stay in their homes but you know make sure that there 02:20:10.240 --> 02:20:16.840 are affordable options so as part of this this the the residential overlay 02:20:16.840 --> 02:20:21.240 was intended that if if if somebody wanted to build a new home in southeast 02:20:21.240 --> 02:20:26.400 Stanton that it should look like it fits there and and now that was was 02:20:26.400 --> 02:20:30.880 important from what we heard from the community and so that's why we wanted to 02:20:30.880 --> 02:20:38.440 take this forward as quickly as possible thank you and maybe I'm the dense one 02:20:38.440 --> 02:20:44.400 here can you just give us a brief clear definition of what gentrification is for 02:20:44.400 --> 02:20:49.960 those purposes we're on the same page I don't know if there is a one-size-fits-all 02:20:49.960 --> 02:20:55.520 definition of gentrification but but there are several facets and things that 02:20:55.520 --> 02:21:00.960 we talked about as part of the area plan so there are there's gentrification when 02:21:00.960 --> 02:21:04.400 it terms of you just can't afford to live in your house anymore right either 02:21:04.400 --> 02:21:09.440 either the real estate values are so expensive your kids can't buy a house 02:21:09.440 --> 02:21:14.440 there or the property taxes are so high that it really does price people out of 02:21:14.440 --> 02:21:17.960 their neighborhoods so that's one part and that's a really big part it's 02:21:17.960 --> 02:21:22.760 challenging to tackle that and we're so we are there is an there is there are 02:21:22.760 --> 02:21:29.040 parts of the area plan that do talk about that part of that 53 actions 02:21:29.040 --> 02:21:33.760 there's also just just changes in the neighborhood where really it does 02:21:33.760 --> 02:21:39.080 physically change that that kind of just doesn't look doesn't look the way it did 02:21:39.080 --> 02:21:46.360 it so it changes from a fundamentally and spatially aspect in that respect the 02:21:46.360 --> 02:21:50.640 residential overlay can assist that because if if there are new structures 02:21:50.640 --> 02:21:58.520 in southeastern that they would continue what what is existing but when one 02:21:58.520 --> 02:22:03.280 definition is really hard to do I appreciate that because I would hate to 02:22:03.280 --> 02:22:08.640 try to summarize that but what I'm hearing primarily is displacement 02:22:08.640 --> 02:22:17.320 economic displacement or forced displacement as well as building 02:22:17.320 --> 02:22:23.240 intensity and feel of of the architectural continuity is that kind of 02:22:23.240 --> 02:22:30.280 the and demographic change yes yeah I would for the purposes of this area 02:22:30.280 --> 02:22:33.760 plan those are the elements we looked at in terms of gentrification thank you 02:22:33.760 --> 02:22:42.280 very much a couple brief things the can you speak to I believe there's both a 02:22:42.280 --> 02:22:48.080 senior homestead exemption which the city offers as well as the tax freeze 02:22:48.080 --> 02:22:54.000 which was voted in by voters seven years ago maybe sorry I'm not great in 02:22:54.000 --> 02:22:59.480 remembering number of years it's my understanding that those taxes or those 02:22:59.480 --> 02:23:04.840 two elements would both afford a property property tax discount to those 02:23:04.840 --> 02:23:10.000 sixty-five or older as well as fix their property taxes to a dollar value so they 02:23:10.000 --> 02:23:14.460 would not increase as valuations change is that correct that is correct for over 02:23:14.460 --> 02:23:26.520 sixty-five okay and I think that's it commissioner McDade thank you chair I 02:23:26.520 --> 02:23:31.960 had a couple questions regarding your presentation trying to find did you find 02:23:31.960 --> 02:23:41.680 any one architectural design in Southeast Denton that could be was there any one 02:23:41.680 --> 02:23:45.720 architect that ever came and designed anything in Southeast Denton we have not 02:23:45.720 --> 02:23:50.240 found that we may find that as we continue on with our research our 02:23:50.240 --> 02:23:54.880 historic research of Southeast Denton and the future of cult the future cultural 02:23:54.880 --> 02:24:00.200 district for Southeast Denton but at this point we were looking less about the 02:24:00.200 --> 02:24:07.160 architects or or or who built them and more just what the form is at this point 02:24:07.160 --> 02:24:14.960 a few more questions so a clarification to on the height building in the blue 02:24:14.960 --> 02:24:21.200 area and the height overlay district are you saying that no three-story buildings 02:24:21.200 --> 02:24:27.960 or structures would be allowed in the blue area so the proposed 40 feet could 02:24:27.960 --> 02:24:37.240 allow a three-story building within it so it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily cap 02:24:37.240 --> 02:24:42.800 it at that it would have to it would be whatever whatever a person could develop 02:24:42.800 --> 02:24:49.240 up to 40 feet but it wouldn't it would it would allow three stories it's 02:24:49.240 --> 02:24:55.480 possible you possible and maybe maybe I don't know if you could get four stories 02:24:55.480 --> 02:24:58.720 out of it but three stories you could you could get would take you there 02:24:58.720 --> 02:25:08.040 another question regarding the live work overlay are there any existing live work 02:25:08.040 --> 02:25:14.600 areas in Southeast Denton or in the small area no what we found is that just 02:25:14.600 --> 02:25:19.760 the use in general live work use there isn't any across the city because 02:25:19.760 --> 02:25:24.520 speculatively most likely because of the the challenge of how it's defined in the 02:25:24.520 --> 02:25:31.360 DDC versus how it's defined in for ICC and then would bars be allowed in that 02:25:31.360 --> 02:25:36.960 area no restaurants would be and they could serve alcohol but they would it 02:25:36.960 --> 02:25:41.920 would have to be less than a certain percentage of their menu sales so 02:25:41.920 --> 02:25:50.720 restaurants can but no not bars and then in this area do any of the owners of the 02:25:50.720 --> 02:25:55.920 property live in this current existing area now that own the property there in 02:25:55.920 --> 02:26:04.560 this area so are there owner-occupied and that there are a few yes there are a 02:26:04.560 --> 02:26:10.520 few on East Prairie just I think a handful along East Prairie in the 02:26:10.520 --> 02:26:16.400 properties along Skinner are undeveloped and then there is a I want to say was 02:26:16.400 --> 02:26:21.360 about 50/50 owner-occupied in the Robertson cook Street area do you recall 02:26:21.360 --> 02:26:27.200 if you had any input from those owners for that area not specifically I do not 02:26:27.200 --> 02:26:32.840 recall receiving any letters and then regarding the small area plan that has 02:26:32.840 --> 02:26:37.000 already been proved by council and which is your what you're using as your 02:26:37.000 --> 02:26:44.400 working document who were the members of that committee for the small area plan 02:26:44.400 --> 02:26:50.560 I could pull that up real quick I do not have the list but yes I could pull that 02:26:50.560 --> 02:26:55.760 up the steering committee the area plan steering committee small area the 02:26:55.760 --> 02:27:00.600 southeast end small area planning yeah we could get like okay you don't have to 02:27:00.600 --> 02:27:05.680 go get it right now if you can look it up for me and I apologize folks but the 02:27:05.680 --> 02:27:09.680 other question was are there and I'm glad you brought up about the tax 02:27:09.680 --> 02:27:15.760 exemption so there are seniors in the southeast den area who are already 02:27:15.760 --> 02:27:21.720 receiving property tax exemptions due to them even before all of this or was that 02:27:21.720 --> 02:27:31.680 included in the small area plan the senior in the tax freeze so the over 65 02:27:31.680 --> 02:27:36.880 exemption has been in place in Denton for I don't I don't remember when it 02:27:36.880 --> 02:27:43.260 passed but it's it's it's fairly new in Denton but it it predates the area plan 02:27:43.260 --> 02:27:48.880 it wasn't necessarily a part of this it's it's just something that residents 02:27:48.880 --> 02:27:55.400 over 65 homeowners over 65 can avail themselves of it's available and then a 02:27:55.400 --> 02:28:01.120 clarification you mentioned that there were approximately 60 acres of land 02:28:01.120 --> 02:28:09.640 available for development in southeast in yes let me let me go back to that so 02:28:09.640 --> 02:28:15.960 yes there's actually 70 acres about 70 acres of privately owned land in in 02:28:15.960 --> 02:28:20.560 southeast end ten of those are undevelopable just because of floodplain 02:28:20.560 --> 02:28:33.520 issues but but yes everything in green is is undeveloped and then they did you 02:28:33.520 --> 02:28:41.040 find any historical designations in Southeast Denton I think we I think 02:28:41.040 --> 02:28:47.360 Cameron said that there aren't any locally designated they do have signage 02:28:47.360 --> 02:28:52.920 again that's something part of the plan that we are we are working toward working 02:28:52.920 --> 02:28:57.200 with the community to see who if if someone would like to designate their 02:28:57.200 --> 02:29:02.440 property and to to help them through that process thank you very much sure 02:29:02.440 --> 02:29:07.400 thank you and I'll just thank the the Commission for remaining true to my 02:29:07.400 --> 02:29:12.000 request of asking questions that everybody can hear the answers to it 02:29:12.000 --> 02:29:15.720 instead of dipping into deliberation at this point a few more people to speak 02:29:15.720 --> 02:29:24.040 Commissioner Kettresett I have a couple of questions the first one is are there 02:29:24.040 --> 02:29:30.140 any limitations on like demolition any anything that will hold off while we look 02:29:30.140 --> 02:29:36.720 at things maybe for rehab purposes there are no limitations on on demolition so 02:29:36.720 --> 02:29:42.800 someone could demolish their home but if it's approved if they wanted to build 02:29:42.800 --> 02:29:47.040 rebuild it would have to be in accordance with the with the regulations 02:29:47.040 --> 02:29:55.880 okay and then I also have a live work question so on the daycare it's the 02:29:55.880 --> 02:30:00.240 officer from six to eight does that that seems pretty limiting for people that 02:30:00.240 --> 02:30:04.640 might do shift work and need daycare for night because these are home daycares 02:30:04.640 --> 02:30:13.600 correct like that would be the so why would we limit that good question so in 02:30:13.600 --> 02:30:20.040 general all non-residential uses we're proposing to limit them to a closing 02:30:20.040 --> 02:30:24.840 time of 8 p.m. on weekdays so that's kind of just where that closing time fell 02:30:24.840 --> 02:30:31.480 into place we did think about just in general the need for an or earlier drop 02:30:31.480 --> 02:30:43.320 off and basically trying to main have that balance of wanting to be as as 02:30:43.320 --> 02:30:48.120 flexible as possible without you know it was still respecting later hours of 02:30:48.120 --> 02:30:51.600 operation for their residences but we could look into that if that's the will 02:30:51.600 --> 02:31:00.440 of the Commission as a modification to this Commissioner Dyer I think Hillary 02:31:00.440 --> 02:31:05.280 will appreciate this um you were talking about the 65 and older exemptions I 02:31:05.280 --> 02:31:09.760 would just like to say that none of us are property tax experts here so we have 02:31:09.760 --> 02:31:15.160 to be very careful on you know the advice that we're given because I don't 02:31:15.160 --> 02:31:21.760 really feel like some of that was accurate I am in I am in the industry 02:31:21.760 --> 02:31:26.960 and it's Texas codes on their property taxes is very confusing so I went to 02:31:26.960 --> 02:31:35.240 Denton CAD just to clarify and that basically when you turn 65 it's effective 02:31:35.240 --> 02:31:39.280 January 1st of any year in which he or she turned 65 or purchases a residence 02:31:39.280 --> 02:31:44.920 after they are already 65 or older every school district is required to exempt up 02:31:44.920 --> 02:31:49.240 to 60,000 of the assessed value and to place a free ceiling on the their tax 02:31:49.240 --> 02:31:53.800 amount other jurisdictions in Denton County can elect to give an optional 02:31:53.800 --> 02:31:58.760 over 65 exemption and Denton County has elected to place a free ceiling on all 02:31:58.760 --> 02:32:04.240 accounts with an over 65 exemption so it's really just on the school tax it 02:32:04.240 --> 02:32:08.800 doesn't always apply to your city or your county tax and that's why it's 02:32:08.800 --> 02:32:12.080 always very important to protest your property values every year when 02:32:12.080 --> 02:32:18.600 assessments come out in April to try to keep up and lower your tax assessments 02:32:19.520 --> 02:32:24.400 anything else no that I just want to make sure because that was the whole 02:32:24.400 --> 02:32:27.600 thing is very confusing I know there was a lot of discussion about that no I 02:32:27.600 --> 02:32:32.720 appreciate that thank you Commissioner McDuff yes and Commissioner Dyer I 02:32:32.720 --> 02:32:36.840 thought you were going to talk about apartments and that we had too many but 02:32:36.840 --> 02:32:43.800 I will address me is miss Hines comment on middle housing and could you talk 02:32:43.800 --> 02:32:48.280 about that and what that means we're talking about new development I think I 02:32:48.280 --> 02:32:56.840 believe in these overlays yes new builds so the missing middle is what we is a 02:32:56.840 --> 02:33:01.480 term that we use to cut sort of lump in like duplexes triplexes forplexes town 02:33:01.480 --> 02:33:07.080 home so those are the the more dense housing options that are available than 02:33:07.080 --> 02:33:12.040 just single-family residential but not not multifamily which we classify as up 02:33:12.040 --> 02:33:18.200 to I believe five or more units on one single lot so what we are proposing as a 02:33:18.200 --> 02:33:23.100 portion of the live work overlay dwelling which which has a future land use 02:33:23.100 --> 02:33:28.400 designation of moderate residential to allow for a slightly higher density than 02:33:28.400 --> 02:33:33.520 the rest of the area is to allow for that missing middle I will say in full 02:33:33.520 --> 02:33:38.840 transparency one of the tracks in there is zone MN so multifamily could be 02:33:38.840 --> 02:33:43.400 permitted there but the way that the properties are surrounded it would have 02:33:43.400 --> 02:33:49.160 to ensure access proper access through a zoning district that does allow for 02:33:49.160 --> 02:33:55.440 multifamily and majority of those properties result are seven so it's what 02:33:55.440 --> 02:33:59.960 we are proposing as a part of this does not propose to allow for multifamily as 02:33:59.960 --> 02:34:04.160 a an additional use but it does propose to allow for triplexes forplexes and 02:34:04.160 --> 02:34:08.120 duplexes and it doesn't necessarily restrict multifamily where it's already 02:34:08.120 --> 02:34:13.520 permitted either well I just know that's been a ongoing concern in district one 02:34:13.520 --> 02:34:21.080 and we're now we're concerned in Denton about too many apartments thank you Mia 02:34:21.080 --> 02:34:27.320 thank you I don't see any more speakers on the board before we hear from from 02:34:27.320 --> 02:34:32.240 the public I'll just ask Charlie not to call you out do you feel confident to 02:34:32.240 --> 02:34:37.920 speak on some of the property tax and exemption rules as you're coming up I'll 02:34:37.920 --> 02:34:43.480 just say I want to make sure we get this very clear it yes I I agree that's the 02:34:43.480 --> 02:34:47.280 the statement from the Denny count Ninton County it's my understanding that 02:34:47.280 --> 02:34:52.240 the school district is required by the state to freeze over 65 that Denton 02:34:52.240 --> 02:34:58.160 County has frozen their portion and that the city of Denton has also elected to 02:34:58.160 --> 02:35:01.840 freeze their portion is that yeah that's correct the city also has property tax 02:35:01.840 --> 02:35:09.720 freeze on over 65 okay any other and that's why it's very confusing yes and 02:35:09.720 --> 02:35:14.000 so that's why you just have to be very careful and make sure that you clearly 02:35:14.000 --> 02:35:18.000 understand what your tax bill saying yeah no absolutely agree I don't want to 02:35:18.000 --> 02:35:22.040 get the impression that what we're speaking of here would apply to any other 02:35:22.040 --> 02:35:27.560 jurisdictions county or cities we're really just looking at this this overlay 02:35:27.560 --> 02:35:32.680 that's within the city of Denton thank you for that clarification okay this is 02:35:32.680 --> 02:35:39.400 a public hearing I have one card wishing to speak so I will pull this up first 02:35:39.400 --> 02:35:47.160 miss Francis punch if you'd like to come forward state your name and address and 02:35:47.160 --> 02:35:55.160 you'll have four minutes good evening I'm Francis punch I live at 2002 02:35:55.160 --> 02:36:02.600 Busteria Street Denton Texas thank you to the staff who has worked so hard on 02:36:02.600 --> 02:36:10.280 this this is not an easy task and you asked who was a part of the advisory 02:36:10.280 --> 02:36:16.520 group I was one of the members I was one of the members and I came tonight and 02:36:16.520 --> 02:36:23.720 was quite frankly irritated because a lot of the people was confused they 02:36:23.720 --> 02:36:31.620 didn't know really what are we voting on and but I think you got ahead of a lot 02:36:31.620 --> 02:36:39.600 a lot of my questions by asking the put placing the questions at the end thank 02:36:39.600 --> 02:36:47.280 you thank you for that I still do have a couple of concerns if the residents can't 02:36:47.280 --> 02:36:56.720 afford the changes that required changes what happens Airbnb's or being built in 02:36:56.720 --> 02:37:06.900 communities like these and will there be a limit of Airbnb's and should be a 02:37:06.900 --> 02:37:12.720 limit it if our new policy hasn't been amended and I thank you for answering 02:37:12.720 --> 02:37:20.520 the questions about the taxes so because those remind big three big questions 02:37:20.520 --> 02:37:29.680 thank you can they answer can they answer my questions yes I don't see any 02:37:29.680 --> 02:37:33.200 questions from the committee but yeah Julie if you'd like to address those 02:37:33.200 --> 02:37:40.600 thank you I'll start the answer but I probably won't finish it um okay in 02:37:40.600 --> 02:37:43.600 terms of affordability that was something that was on our mind and in 02:37:43.600 --> 02:37:47.120 fact the Planning and Zoning Commission kind of kind of helped guide that 02:37:47.120 --> 02:37:51.960 discussion because there were concerns about what are the costs of front 02:37:51.960 --> 02:37:56.200 porches because our original proposal was if you expand your property more 02:37:56.200 --> 02:38:01.160 than 50% you have to comply with everything but after doing after talking 02:38:01.160 --> 02:38:08.640 with builders and and some some other contractors and understanding how just 02:38:08.640 --> 02:38:12.880 how expensive doing something like putting a front porch on or a or a 02:38:12.880 --> 02:38:18.480 window we we we took that out of it because we felt like it just didn't also 02:38:18.480 --> 02:38:24.240 meet our affordability standards and in terms of affordability of the other 02:38:24.240 --> 02:38:30.000 items so if you were going to build from the ground up we did try to look at 02:38:30.000 --> 02:38:35.840 different options in those in those architectural features to to provide a 02:38:35.840 --> 02:38:43.360 choice based upon budgeting or a really personal style and so that was that was 02:38:43.360 --> 02:38:50.080 the intent to have some choices there and then Airbnb is 02:38:50.080 --> 02:39:00.560 hi Angie minglers assistant planning director just to speak a little bit 02:39:00.560 --> 02:39:05.640 about Airbnb's and short-term rentals generally the southeast Denton overlays 02:39:05.640 --> 02:39:09.360 that we're talking about tonight don't necessarily amend any of those adopted 02:39:09.360 --> 02:39:12.320 provisions but just wanted to remind everybody of what we do have in place 02:39:12.320 --> 02:39:18.360 for STR's so those were that a portion of our code was amended a little over a 02:39:18.360 --> 02:39:22.840 year ago maybe closer to a year and a half at this point the city of Denton in 02:39:22.840 --> 02:39:27.080 residentially zoned areas which predominantly is the area we're 02:39:27.080 --> 02:39:34.600 discussing this evening citywide has a cap of 1,000 short-term rental units in 02:39:34.600 --> 02:39:39.160 residential areas in addition to that property to property they cannot be 02:39:39.160 --> 02:39:43.720 closer than 100 feet from one another so if I have one my neighbor would likely 02:39:43.720 --> 02:39:47.880 be prohibited but maybe two houses down could have one in residential areas only 02:39:47.880 --> 02:39:52.840 in our commercially zoned areas in our mixed-use areas it's slightly different 02:39:52.840 --> 02:39:58.520 where those distance separation requirements do not apply but any given 02:39:58.520 --> 02:40:02.040 multifamily development would be capped at no more than ten percent of their 02:40:02.040 --> 02:40:06.760 overall units so we have that generally and the city is committed to evaluating 02:40:06.760 --> 02:40:11.440 that on an ongoing basis but it isn't necessarily a part of this overlay 02:40:11.440 --> 02:40:20.280 discussion thank you this is a public hearing so anyone who would like to come 02:40:20.280 --> 02:40:28.280 down and share their thoughts is perfectly willing to please sorry for 02:40:28.280 --> 02:40:36.720 the sake of mobility oh nevermind well sorry yeah I have two cards it's 02:40:36.720 --> 02:40:41.760 confusing on the color so I apologize but yeah are you one of these white 02:40:41.760 --> 02:40:55.560 cards yes are you in favor or do you oppose this plan are you in favor or do 02:40:55.560 --> 02:40:59.640 you oppose the plan yeah sorry just so we have it on the on the record if you 02:40:59.640 --> 02:41:08.720 could come back up and answer the Commissioner's question quite frankly I 02:41:08.720 --> 02:41:14.680 was waiting to hear the rest of the discussion to make my decision because I 02:41:14.680 --> 02:41:19.680 think a lot of people think they understand but I think it would provide 02:41:19.680 --> 02:41:27.520 clarity if we had things side-by-side and say it was this and now it's this 02:41:27.520 --> 02:41:34.120 because when you go you use a lot of acronyms that we don't know I may know 02:41:34.120 --> 02:41:40.520 they don't know and they think they know but they don't really get all the 02:41:40.520 --> 02:41:48.240 details they just don't get it so I'm holding my vote but thank you thank you 02:41:48.240 --> 02:41:53.600 looks like we have one more question I'd like to ask a follow-up question ma'am 02:41:53.600 --> 02:41:57.680 well because you said you were on the committee I like to discuss all this 02:41:57.680 --> 02:42:01.600 correct correct yes and thank you for that thank you for having that input do 02:42:01.600 --> 02:42:06.300 you feel like a lot of your concerns your suggestions during that process was 02:42:06.300 --> 02:42:12.640 really listened to and you can see a lot of them implemented in in the plan that 02:42:12.640 --> 02:42:19.280 Julie and Mia shared during the process I am the consultants and we yes I 02:42:19.280 --> 02:42:25.920 thought they listened I thought they came back with them with revisions that's 02:42:25.920 --> 02:42:31.840 why I was surprised I said what's being what's now being revised what was wrong 02:42:31.840 --> 02:42:37.440 with the original plan but I see definitely the height definitely the 02:42:37.440 --> 02:42:44.400 height I see that I'm a little confused still with the mixed use and always 02:42:44.400 --> 02:42:54.040 creates pause but so yes I do think that we they listened and did best that the 02:42:54.040 --> 02:43:01.840 best they could with the limitations okay thank you thank you Mr. Willie 02:43:01.840 --> 02:43:06.520 Sellers if you'd like to come up state your name and address and you'll have 02:43:06.520 --> 02:43:12.960 four minutes thank you yes Willie Sellers 930 Scott Drive Den Texas I would 02:43:12.960 --> 02:43:17.960 like to know why is this section of then being targeted for this type of 02:43:17.960 --> 02:43:25.420 development also I know you've set a standard for the developers that are 02:43:25.420 --> 02:43:34.120 coming in you know the 30 feet height on the houses and stuff like that also you 02:43:34.120 --> 02:43:39.000 had some things we're gonna have a tremendous parking problem with anything 02:43:39.000 --> 02:43:43.160 that you bring in I know you're talking about Skinner because you already have 02:43:43.160 --> 02:43:48.880 existing homes across the street on Skinner I know you're talking about the 02:43:48.880 --> 02:43:53.840 area that's next to Morrison Mills so if you have that area right there you can 02:43:53.840 --> 02:43:59.000 only come so far out and then you got to accommodate parking for your tenants or 02:43:59.000 --> 02:44:05.240 for the individuals that are using the mix use what is that work live work work 02:44:05.240 --> 02:44:09.520 live of one of those things and you also have a church around the street around 02:44:09.520 --> 02:44:16.320 the corner there their hours are they have hours and church is held all the 02:44:16.320 --> 02:44:21.120 time and then these people are going to be there 24/7 you know trying to make 02:44:21.120 --> 02:44:24.960 money with their business so it's going to interrupt the church services etc 02:44:24.960 --> 02:44:31.280 whatever you know they don't only meet on Sunday choir rehearsal prayer meeting 02:44:31.280 --> 02:44:40.120 Bible study etc and I have one other question who are the stakeholders I heard 02:44:40.120 --> 02:44:44.200 that term mentioned stakeholders so I would think the stakeholders would be 02:44:44.200 --> 02:44:49.880 the individuals that are living so are you talking about the people that may buy 02:44:49.880 --> 02:44:53.480 the property or the people that's going to develop the property so those are the 02:44:53.480 --> 02:44:57.680 stakeholders or are you talking about the individuals that's actually going to 02:44:57.680 --> 02:45:07.120 be there 24/7 all right I noticed I noticed that you mentioned the area on 02:45:07.120 --> 02:45:12.000 shady shores that would be an ideal problem I mean place for any development 02:45:12.000 --> 02:45:18.440 because UPS is gone the shingle place is gone and that would be an ideal place 02:45:18.440 --> 02:45:22.800 for anything else over there I know it's in the red and the red was targeted 02:45:22.800 --> 02:45:31.520 that's uh yeah that's shady shores okay anything else is going to be an impact 02:45:31.520 --> 02:45:37.280 to the community based on the fact that we're going to have a parking problem 02:45:37.280 --> 02:45:44.080 you're going to have traffic right now if you try to navigate coming up Prairie 02:45:44.080 --> 02:45:48.120 Street right there I think that's Locust coming back in again the street right 02:45:48.120 --> 02:45:51.800 here those apartments are sitting here those apartments sitting there you have 02:45:51.800 --> 02:45:56.280 to drive in the middle of the street when you exit that street are you coming 02:45:56.280 --> 02:46:00.680 straight across if there's a car coming and that you get that you're going to 02:46:00.680 --> 02:46:03.880 introduce that same problem because we already have that problem at the corner 02:46:03.880 --> 02:46:08.680 of Bradshaw and Prairie Street now where you put the four you put the four-way 02:46:08.680 --> 02:46:13.400 stop there and the people that live there already they parked their car right 02:46:13.400 --> 02:46:19.080 in the mouth of Prairie Street so when you come up to stop you're literally 02:46:19.080 --> 02:46:26.440 sitting in the middle of the street and I can see a lot of problems until you 02:46:26.440 --> 02:46:35.640 address the parking situation to their affairs this is going to be a cluster of 02:46:35.640 --> 02:46:41.520 a mess because everybody has anywhere from three two and a half to three cars 02:46:41.520 --> 02:46:47.680 and I'm talking about mom pop and maybe one kid has a car so you're gonna that's 02:46:47.680 --> 02:46:53.120 going to be a total congestion because none of those their affairs can address 02:46:53.120 --> 02:46:59.160 navigating me through there safely already so I can see us having a problem 02:46:59.160 --> 02:47:04.280 I mean I'm not in an opposition of development or improvement to southeast 02:47:04.280 --> 02:47:09.240 in but I think that we need to revisit some of the other opalescence that may 02:47:09.240 --> 02:47:23.800 occur due to the increase and bringing additional development in thank you okay 02:47:23.800 --> 02:47:28.960 let's just go one by one I think that'll be clearer if you could come Julie and 02:47:28.960 --> 02:47:35.640 address the specifics that I heard about were parking how that's regulated and 02:47:35.640 --> 02:47:40.760 maybe Mia you want to jump in I don't know as well as the stakeholders in the 02:47:40.760 --> 02:47:48.280 public engagement so stakeholders that we we we had a few groups residents so 02:47:48.280 --> 02:47:52.360 people who lived in Southeast Denton property owners who maybe own property 02:47:52.360 --> 02:47:58.760 in Southeast and but don't necessarily live there and then also churchgoers or 02:47:58.760 --> 02:48:03.440 other other folks who visit Southeast Denton on a regular basis and those are 02:48:03.440 --> 02:48:09.120 really the kind of the groups we we try to talk to as much as possible so that 02:48:09.120 --> 02:48:18.240 that's really the group we identified as stakeholders in terms of of parking me I 02:48:18.240 --> 02:48:24.320 might want to talk about the live work as far as residential we did not as part 02:48:24.320 --> 02:48:28.000 of this proposal touch our parking requirements so single-family 02:48:28.000 --> 02:48:34.440 residential and in the city of Denton requires four parking spaces for for each 02:48:34.440 --> 02:48:40.520 dwelling so and this would not change that if if you did build a home in 02:48:40.520 --> 02:48:50.040 Southeast and you'd still have to comply with those regulations and then just to 02:48:50.040 --> 02:48:53.440 adjust parking for the non-residential uses that are proposed as part of the 02:48:53.440 --> 02:48:58.560 live work we do have that they they need to adhere to whatever they have to 02:48:58.560 --> 02:49:04.760 supply parking on site if it's a new non-residential use so ideally we would 02:49:04.760 --> 02:49:09.640 like we would like to see that like an existing home transform transforms its 02:49:09.640 --> 02:49:13.680 structure into like a bookstore a small retail store something like that the 02:49:13.680 --> 02:49:20.920 home itself could be I think like 1200 square feet which might for retail be a 02:49:20.920 --> 02:49:27.280 parking ratio of like one per 300 one per 350 which would be just under four 02:49:27.280 --> 02:49:32.880 spaces I believe essentially with this overlay what we are proposing that even 02:49:32.880 --> 02:49:37.600 if the the ratio makes it so that you can do under four spaces you have to 02:49:37.600 --> 02:49:42.280 provide at least four spaces on site for your parking lot so it's even an 02:49:42.280 --> 02:49:46.200 increase from what we have with the current and a lot of the the the 02:49:46.200 --> 02:49:49.360 residences the current single-family situation that just has a narrow 02:49:49.360 --> 02:49:54.400 driveway with maybe two or three spaces on the on the lot and then I did look up 02:49:54.400 --> 02:49:58.800 our full steering committee list it is for anyone interested in our in the 02:49:58.800 --> 02:50:03.880 actual plan itself for everyone who was on the steering committee we have 02:50:03.880 --> 02:50:12.840 Alexandria Valdez Raymond Redmond Reverend Reginald Logan Clifton Maxfield 02:50:12.840 --> 02:50:19.760 Jacob Moses miss Francis punch Paul Juarez Howard Clark and Cherica Campbell 02:50:19.760 --> 02:50:29.920 we're all stakeholder or steering committee members thank you I have a card 02:50:29.920 --> 02:50:42.640 from mr. Donald McDade would you like to just be good afternoon Commission my 02:50:42.640 --> 02:50:50.200 name is Donald McDade I live at 926 East Prairie in Texas and before I get into 02:50:50.200 --> 02:50:56.640 the logistics I just want to say I look at the goal that you have and I really 02:50:56.640 --> 02:51:02.640 wish you would take out goal number one like you're saying rebuild trust you 02:51:02.640 --> 02:51:09.000 cannot rebuild something that was never there in the first place 02:51:09.680 --> 02:51:14.240 Southeast Denton has been around what a hundred and something years and if it 02:51:14.240 --> 02:51:21.800 takes 2026 to start building that trust that's embarrassing it's disrespectful 02:51:21.800 --> 02:51:27.640 now heard y'all heard you talk about gentrification I'll go back to the trust 02:51:27.640 --> 02:51:33.160 I don't think the fear of gentrification would be as high as the city not I think 02:51:33.160 --> 02:51:39.920 it was 2009 come in here and rezone Southeast Ding and not involve these 02:51:39.920 --> 02:51:47.480 people they had no idea until the project was already started that scares 02:51:47.480 --> 02:51:53.760 anybody so I don't understand how you're gonna try to rebuild something that you 02:51:53.760 --> 02:51:58.240 didn't want them to know about and now you're coming to him saying hey we made 02:51:58.240 --> 02:52:03.120 a mistake that mistake is a hundred years old stop putting lipstick on that 02:52:03.120 --> 02:52:09.560 pig because there's still a pig okay take it out also before I thought I mean 02:52:09.560 --> 02:52:16.240 I don't have an issue with what we're doing as far as the overlay I just don't 02:52:16.240 --> 02:52:19.960 want to I'm happy with the houses that they're gonna build I just don't want to 02:52:19.960 --> 02:52:24.560 see any eyesores like we have on cross timbers and mill and wood and McKinney 02:52:24.560 --> 02:52:33.480 any other house I can deal with the other issue is a lot I lost train of 02:52:33.480 --> 02:52:42.240 thought here on my last thing I have an issue that I want to see if we can get 02:52:42.240 --> 02:52:49.440 it corrected before we leave today and that's in the the live work a these 02:52:49.440 --> 02:52:54.640 prairie between the railroad and Oakwood Cemetery I would love to see that 02:52:54.640 --> 02:53:01.000 between the railroad and the DCTA track because when you go on the east side of 02:53:01.000 --> 02:53:06.920 prairie those are resident that's a residential area I don't want these 02:53:06.920 --> 02:53:10.800 people living in fear that something may come because you've already pushed it 02:53:10.800 --> 02:53:15.880 out to the cemetery these they're homeowners you have the west the west 02:53:15.880 --> 02:53:21.840 side of prairie you can do whatever you want with that but I don't want these 02:53:21.840 --> 02:53:26.160 residents living in fear because you have something in here that that may or 02:53:26.160 --> 02:53:31.240 may not happen let's take that out of their mind right now and let's change 02:53:31.240 --> 02:53:38.560 let's amend the what is I don't have said the SED LWL at least the man number 02:53:38.560 --> 02:53:46.120 a and just leave it from there from the railroad track to the DCA track also I 02:53:46.120 --> 02:53:52.920 know that the three years that I spent on planning and zoning after what had 02:53:52.920 --> 02:53:56.880 already been done the South East didn't I knew I could I couldn't save it I was 02:53:56.880 --> 02:54:01.480 here for one reason and one reason only that was to keep these people informed 02:54:01.480 --> 02:54:06.560 that what the city was actually trying to do in South East didn't I knew I 02:54:06.560 --> 02:54:10.440 wasn't going to succeed but they had a right to know that's something that they 02:54:10.440 --> 02:54:13.680 never had we've had a lot of I hate to say it we had a lot of poor 02:54:13.680 --> 02:54:21.680 representation in district one we did we voted for a lot of people who didn't 02:54:21.680 --> 02:54:25.840 have our best interests at heart and we've always been used to being stabbed 02:54:25.840 --> 02:54:30.760 in the back but what's gonna get us now is when y'all turn around and find out 02:54:30.760 --> 02:54:35.240 who was holding that knife that's what's really gonna upset you because there's 02:54:35.240 --> 02:54:43.040 people who look like us who was holding the knife thank you mr. McDade I think 02:54:43.040 --> 02:54:48.920 sorry I have one question just so I'm clear on the concerns first of all thank 02:54:48.920 --> 02:54:52.560 you for being that conduit to the community to make sure your your 02:54:52.560 --> 02:54:56.960 neighbors really understand what's happening I appreciate that but on your 02:54:56.960 --> 02:55:02.480 concerns with the live work it's my understanding from statements before 02:55:02.480 --> 02:55:06.600 that we don't actually have any of those uses now so it's hard to envision what 02:55:06.600 --> 02:55:11.760 that would be my understanding is it would conform to the architectural 02:55:11.760 --> 02:55:15.740 standards that we're putting in place so it would largely that the building 02:55:15.740 --> 02:55:22.560 itself would look like a home typical in the area but it might have a sign I'm 02:55:22.560 --> 02:55:26.880 looking at you know the main commercial hub uses of offices schools daycare I 02:55:26.880 --> 02:55:36.360 mean that's fine if it's from the the regular railroad track to the DCA track 02:55:36.360 --> 02:55:41.440 that I mean that that's commercial already they push the boundary all the 02:55:41.440 --> 02:55:46.920 way down to oakwood cemetery yeah yeah let's take that out of the equation and 02:55:46.920 --> 02:55:53.480 just focus on right I guess my my question is you know we've heard things 02:55:53.480 --> 02:55:57.880 about parking we've heard things about height and other things is there a 02:55:57.880 --> 02:56:04.560 particular aspect of those proposed uses that is most concerning to you or the 02:56:04.560 --> 02:56:13.320 community members you've spoken to not really because it's hard to talk about 02:56:13.320 --> 02:56:17.800 that when you don't really know what's coming I can say to him say well you know 02:56:17.800 --> 02:56:21.740 if it's gonna be you know a barbershop they don't need they don't need that 02:56:21.740 --> 02:56:27.600 much parking but until that is actually built that's when the concern is gonna 02:56:27.600 --> 02:56:32.280 happen so I mean I don't want to go hypothetical and not knowing what's 02:56:32.280 --> 02:56:35.880 gonna be built there so I really that's about the best answer I can give you 02:56:35.880 --> 02:56:41.000 that until that's built then we can come back and have that conversation fair 02:56:41.000 --> 02:56:52.280 enough I appreciate that I have I appreciate you reminding me that we'll 02:56:52.280 --> 02:56:58.720 make sure to hit that I have one more card wishing to perhaps wishing to speak 02:56:58.720 --> 02:57:08.680 mr. Donald Cox if you'd like to speak you're welcome to come down if you 02:57:08.680 --> 02:57:13.040 state your name and address you'll have four minutes 02:57:13.040 --> 02:57:23.480 good afternoon my name is dr. Donald Cox I live at 913 Cole Avenue I don't have a 02:57:23.480 --> 02:57:32.680 question I just have a concern starting in 19 well I don't live in southeast 02:57:32.680 --> 02:57:40.360 Denton I have been very involved with what goes on in that department that 02:57:40.360 --> 02:57:51.080 community I'm starting back in 1979 I have been very active with youth 02:57:51.080 --> 02:57:58.840 activities and periodically we have secured facilities none residential 02:57:58.840 --> 02:58:07.760 facilities for those operations based on the time limit that you gave or that is 02:58:07.760 --> 02:58:16.360 before you that would have curtailed some of our activities in the 8 o'clock 02:58:16.360 --> 02:58:23.500 would not work kids get out of school by the time they got over to us it would 02:58:23.500 --> 02:58:36.000 generally be around 6 so and so we would often it would not be unusual for us to 02:58:36.000 --> 02:58:44.160 function until 9 930 it was so they could get home by 10 o'clock except in 02:58:44.160 --> 02:58:50.600 the summer when we would go even later under your proposed plan that would not 02:58:50.600 --> 02:58:58.400 work we have recently I have recently been looking at reviving some of those 02:58:58.400 --> 02:59:07.880 activities again this won't stop me from doing it but I would appreciate if you 02:59:07.880 --> 02:59:17.800 would revisit that or put some kind of something in play that would allow us 02:59:17.800 --> 02:59:25.080 not to break the law by functioning after the closing hours that's all I 02:59:25.080 --> 02:59:33.520 have to ask thank you thank you mr. Cox actually I have one follow-up just just 02:59:33.520 --> 02:59:40.520 so we all are aware as you speak to the types of facilities and activities that 02:59:40.520 --> 02:59:48.480 you've done elsewhere I suppose for those purposes can you describe what 02:59:48.480 --> 02:59:52.200 what those activities were and whether they were indoor or outdoor I think that 02:59:52.200 --> 02:59:56.800 would help our staff respond to that a little bit more clear it to what you're 02:59:56.800 --> 03:00:03.760 talking about it included a lot of things from individual activities like 03:00:03.760 --> 03:00:15.640 tutoring recreational activities mostly indoor things the outdoor activities 03:00:15.640 --> 03:00:25.280 took place elsewhere on a regular basis and if you know I can't really put them 03:00:25.280 --> 03:00:32.360 down into we did everything you name it we did it I should take this 03:00:32.360 --> 03:00:38.640 opportunity to say one of your fellow members at 16 years old was one of the 03:00:38.640 --> 03:00:50.320 participants call any names but she has to be smiling right now very good thank 03:00:50.320 --> 03:01:02.120 you very much your legacy is present yes that was all I don't see any other 03:01:02.120 --> 03:01:07.240 questions that's all the cards I have but like I said I think there was one 03:01:07.240 --> 03:01:15.560 more person may be willing to speak come on up my apologies for the low chairs 03:01:25.000 --> 03:01:33.760 name is Willie Hudson I live at 623 Newton Street can you move the slides to 03:01:33.760 --> 03:01:57.960 a to one of the pictures that shows the County Jail and Thomas Rivera school 03:02:04.080 --> 03:02:24.040 is that the drain area right in between okay that's good in about 2005 I believe 03:02:24.040 --> 03:02:31.400 that's when they widened that this Creek area here 03:02:33.800 --> 03:02:36.800 or the cursor 03:02:36.800 --> 03:02:53.080 okay how can I indicate where the Creek is 03:02:53.080 --> 03:03:03.040 well the area that I'm concerned about as I said 2005 they widen they meaning 03:03:03.040 --> 03:03:08.880 the city widened that drainage area and 03:03:14.360 --> 03:03:36.560 this area is widened the Creek areas was widened and I was told that the reason 03:03:36.560 --> 03:03:43.520 that they widen it so that the water would flow would it not mean a 03:03:43.520 --> 03:03:52.880 restrictions but now the silt and silting has taken place and dirt is now 03:03:52.880 --> 03:03:58.320 back in the Creek and I've requested that they do what they said they would 03:03:58.320 --> 03:04:04.400 do they would clean it out in five years ago but no one's been out there yet to 03:04:04.400 --> 03:04:09.200 clean that drainage area out I don't know that this is the place to bring 03:04:09.200 --> 03:04:18.520 that up but if we're planning for that area I have property there and I own the 03:04:18.520 --> 03:04:23.040 part of the Creek area bright that's behind my house but I can't do anything 03:04:23.040 --> 03:04:31.240 to it it's an easement area the city has the right to not allow things to be 03:04:31.240 --> 03:04:39.200 built there so that it wouldn't impede the water but I can't get anybody over 03:04:39.200 --> 03:04:44.440 there and I've talked to the park department several times to clean that 03:04:44.440 --> 03:04:54.840 area out so that now when it rains it's on my property way much larger area of 03:04:54.840 --> 03:05:01.760 my property is flooded because of the dirt that is in that Creek area so if 03:05:01.760 --> 03:05:08.680 you're talking about developing Southeast Denton well I'm just one 03:05:08.680 --> 03:05:12.640 homeowner that's concerned about that Creek area but I own quite a bit of it 03:05:12.640 --> 03:05:19.440 and I haven't gotten any help with trying to get keep it cleaned out now 03:05:19.440 --> 03:05:25.680 it's a it's an area that I would like to develop and continue developing my 03:05:25.680 --> 03:05:33.080 homeowner my home in that area but I need to know what is the plan if any to 03:05:33.080 --> 03:05:39.000 deal with that area that's being filled in with dirt now that was removed several 03:05:39.000 --> 03:05:49.200 years ago thank you I'll just say I will take it upon myself if I'm still here on 03:05:49.200 --> 03:05:59.520 this board when the citywide stormwater plan comes to us to make sure that that 03:05:59.520 --> 03:06:03.640 issue is is addressed I think there's there's a number of different ways to 03:06:03.640 --> 03:06:08.440 to address stormwater and I'll be looking for for a plan to keep those 03:06:08.440 --> 03:06:18.320 maintained anybody else who would like to speak is welcome to come down yes 03:06:19.520 --> 03:06:23.840 if you'd state your name and address you'll have four minutes 03:06:23.840 --> 03:06:28.000 Zalinda P. Graham 1501 Val Verde according I just have one question 03:06:28.000 --> 03:06:31.960 because I think everything's been addressed that I was concerned about but 03:06:31.960 --> 03:06:39.560 I think it was Mia that said that 15 people voted no do you know what the 03:06:39.560 --> 03:06:59.020 reasons were they for this proposal well it wasn't you okay please yes so the 03:06:59.020 --> 03:07:04.720 majority of the response letters did not have really a reason but there there 03:07:04.720 --> 03:07:08.760 was I know there was one that that was concerned about changes to the property 03:07:08.760 --> 03:07:18.440 without without how was it said changes to the property without consultation 03:07:18.440 --> 03:07:22.640 from the property owner because he had lived in Southeast Denton for 57 years 03:07:22.640 --> 03:07:29.600 and was concerned so but the others there weren't any real specific reasons 03:07:29.600 --> 03:07:39.400 as to why if I recall correctly okay Commissioner Dyer Julie sorry so kind of 03:07:39.400 --> 03:07:43.240 going back to that because I noticed was that Leona Franklin who had that 03:07:43.240 --> 03:07:50.480 concern so I I know that you guys did so many different events and did mailers 03:07:50.480 --> 03:07:55.000 and did surveys and all this stuff and I think you said that there was like five 03:07:55.000 --> 03:08:01.480 or six hundred participants that you had was that all different people or were 03:08:01.480 --> 03:08:04.680 you just telling the people that you talked to so some of them could have been 03:08:04.680 --> 03:08:11.000 repeated because I just came to multiple events I would imagine we do have some 03:08:11.000 --> 03:08:17.200 repeats in there but we with the area plan we tried a variety of ways because 03:08:17.200 --> 03:08:23.700 because when we first started the first series of listening sessions we really 03:08:23.700 --> 03:08:31.600 had a very specific you know an older community member and primarily homeowner 03:08:31.600 --> 03:08:35.080 community member and we wanted to branch that out so we actually did 03:08:35.080 --> 03:08:39.360 additional to make sure that we hit all the demographics we want to get younger 03:08:39.360 --> 03:08:45.600 people and and families and so so that was really important in the plan so we 03:08:45.600 --> 03:08:52.680 tried to do a variety of ways so we did do the you know the the standard postcard 03:08:52.680 --> 03:08:56.280 and then we also did things like intercept surveys where we essentially 03:08:56.280 --> 03:09:02.000 stood in the community where people were going to be and and tried to talk to the 03:09:02.000 --> 03:09:07.720 community members we were really successful on pop-ups at Juneteenth as 03:09:07.720 --> 03:09:11.880 well as national night out talking to parents as they're picking up their kids 03:09:11.880 --> 03:09:19.360 at MLK going to set in the meetings so we we tried to get creative to make sure 03:09:19.360 --> 03:09:26.280 that we talked to people who wouldn't normally sit in a postcard to to the to 03:09:26.280 --> 03:09:31.320 the city and then and then for the block party we actually kind of retooled we 03:09:31.320 --> 03:09:34.960 thought about we're like okay how do we get more we started putting on door 03:09:34.960 --> 03:09:40.680 hangers on the door so for these community meetings we put door hangers on 03:09:40.680 --> 03:09:46.440 on residence doors and then we also mailed postcards to properties maybe it 03:09:46.440 --> 03:09:50.200 wasn't unoccupied or it wasn't developed because we wanted to get here from 03:09:50.200 --> 03:09:57.880 everybody we also Spanish speakers we we made sure that we had everything 03:09:57.880 --> 03:10:04.640 translated into Spanish as well as had someone at the meeting to translate if 03:10:04.640 --> 03:10:08.960 that was necessary so we tried to we tried to him all we probably didn't get 03:10:08.960 --> 03:10:13.720 everybody we could have gotten but we yeah well obviously it's so hard to get 03:10:13.720 --> 03:10:17.840 everybody but I'm you know I'm going to ask kind of a difficult question and I 03:10:17.840 --> 03:10:21.080 don't know that you can provide an answer but you know hearing a couple 03:10:21.080 --> 03:10:25.680 people having concerns about you know past distrust and and things like that 03:10:25.680 --> 03:10:29.380 and some of the concerns tonight like do you feel like you got a good 03:10:29.380 --> 03:10:33.720 representation of feedback do you feel like hearing some of the concerns you 03:10:33.720 --> 03:10:39.120 need to go back and kind of get some more or do you feel like you really got 03:10:39.120 --> 03:10:46.920 a good sampling of the community with the recommendations that you know you 03:10:46.920 --> 03:10:51.180 and the staff have all made you me and the staff well I'll start it and Haley 03:10:51.180 --> 03:10:57.480 may jump in and but so the southeast end area plan we had you know we really had 03:10:57.480 --> 03:11:01.680 good coverage we talked to a lot of folks but but as you keep coming back 03:11:01.680 --> 03:11:08.040 you it kind of gets less and less and so for instance our community meetings last 03:11:08.040 --> 03:11:14.280 fall we're not very well attended so we we kind of felt like we were at a point 03:11:14.280 --> 03:11:18.320 that everybody who was going to give us feedback had provided that information 03:11:18.320 --> 03:11:24.160 to us but we're always willing to hear more so and I don't know if Haley wanted 03:11:24.160 --> 03:11:33.120 to correct me or add anything said yeah okay thank you I guess to follow up on 03:11:33.120 --> 03:11:40.000 that I saw one of your slides that said there was like a 14% response rate or 03:11:40.000 --> 03:11:49.800 something yeah I got the percentage wrong I got it's 16% my recollection is 03:11:49.800 --> 03:11:54.600 you know if you look at like local election turnout in this area it's 03:11:54.600 --> 03:12:00.840 typically sub 10% so it seems like through this process we were able to to 03:12:00.840 --> 03:12:04.880 hear from even more than the number of people who typically vote is that 03:12:04.880 --> 03:12:10.960 accurate well we talked with other members of the city especially looking at 03:12:10.960 --> 03:12:15.380 what kind of responses did they have for the community survey and they got a 03:12:15.380 --> 03:12:20.160 response rate of 9 to 11 percent so I felt like we were within that ballpark 03:12:20.160 --> 03:12:25.160 on that I looked at survey monkey to to see like what they said you should do and 03:12:25.160 --> 03:12:30.000 they said anywhere between 10 and 30 percent is good of course a higher 03:12:30.000 --> 03:12:37.480 percentage is always better thank you just to follow up on a couple of 03:12:37.480 --> 03:12:48.800 questions from the public there was one about the community services use for for 03:12:48.800 --> 03:12:54.640 some young members of the community and whether the hours at 8 p.m. would be the 03:12:54.640 --> 03:12:59.760 limiting factor or whether we have other provisions in the code to allow that is 03:12:59.760 --> 03:13:04.720 that something we can clear up not as it is currently proposed if they if that 03:13:04.720 --> 03:13:10.360 user their operations would be operating out of a non-residential building in 03:13:10.360 --> 03:13:16.540 this area then they would be restricted to those if it were at like American 03:13:16.540 --> 03:13:19.800 Legion or MLK or something like that then they would just be restricted to 03:13:19.800 --> 03:13:24.620 whatever those hours operations are so I'm not sure where but we're I'm happy 03:13:24.620 --> 03:13:28.840 to get some more information from that individual to see what we can if we can 03:13:28.840 --> 03:13:35.420 propose something that might help okay and then there was there was also an 03:13:35.420 --> 03:13:44.600 additional item from sorry from mr. Sellers that I had in my brain and now 03:13:44.600 --> 03:13:50.360 I've let it why targeting the area exactly so I can I can set up an answer 03:13:50.360 --> 03:13:55.360 and then maybe can see if Julie or Haley wants to correct me so the southeast 03:13:55.360 --> 03:14:00.200 in area plan as a as an area plan was was a recommendation that came out of 03:14:00.200 --> 03:14:05.440 the broader comprehensive plan to with of many areas of the city including the 03:14:05.440 --> 03:14:11.240 northeastern area and the downtown area to lock in on because we as a city have 03:14:11.240 --> 03:14:16.720 experienced some development interest in those areas so we know that they're 03:14:16.720 --> 03:14:20.320 either they're sensitive areas because of the existing land use context or in 03:14:20.320 --> 03:14:25.520 this case because of the culture and the history and the the sort of current 03:14:25.520 --> 03:14:31.920 zoning as it's situated now and some of the things that we've heard or concerns 03:14:31.920 --> 03:14:39.880 from the areas these plans were attempted to get a full understanding a 03:14:39.880 --> 03:14:42.960 comprehensive understanding of what those concerns are for this area and 03:14:42.960 --> 03:14:47.240 then adopt a plan that allowed us to deal with the development interest that 03:14:47.240 --> 03:14:53.000 we've been seeing around those areas in a way that meets the community's needs 03:14:53.000 --> 03:14:57.120 and vision for those areas so Southeast didn't is is one of those areas that was 03:14:57.120 --> 03:15:01.120 identified by the comp plan and which is a policy direction from council that's 03:15:01.120 --> 03:15:06.280 why it was that that area plan is was adopted and we took on that process and 03:15:06.280 --> 03:15:09.280 then that's why this is this is an action out of that area plan that's why 03:15:09.280 --> 03:15:15.400 it's before you this evening thank you this is a public hearing would anyone 03:15:15.400 --> 03:15:23.080 else like to come down and speak you're welcome to I'm not an auctioneer but 03:15:23.080 --> 03:15:29.480 once twice thrice yes come on down 03:15:29.480 --> 03:15:38.680 grant glass 1121 Hill Street in Texas so this is the first notification I've 03:15:38.680 --> 03:15:44.560 gotten about anything that we have going on here right now so we have the 40 03:15:44.560 --> 03:15:50.960 engagement opportunities did did you guys send this or did you guys send this 03:15:50.960 --> 03:15:55.960 who sent this one yeah I can address that so so the the people on the 03:15:55.960 --> 03:16:01.120 Commission with the exception of the two next to me are residents of the city 03:16:01.120 --> 03:16:05.960 who've been appointed by City Council to serve on this board so luckily we're not 03:16:05.960 --> 03:16:10.880 in charge of doing those important items because we may not follow through on 03:16:10.880 --> 03:16:16.080 things but the people who you've heard present the various applications those 03:16:16.080 --> 03:16:23.240 are city staff that that do the sending of the notifications okay so in the in 03:16:23.240 --> 03:16:27.640 the process of everything that's going on if we were to give a percentage of 03:16:27.640 --> 03:16:34.360 this is how close we're being we're done to being finished where are we right now 03:16:34.360 --> 03:16:39.160 that's a great question whoever wants to take that it's been a while since I 03:16:39.160 --> 03:16:46.680 looked at the implementation chart I know we're marching down toward that so 03:16:46.680 --> 03:16:53.600 the area plan is is a 10-year plan with most of the action items really were 03:16:53.600 --> 03:16:57.480 kind of short-term to get them done as quickly as possible in terms of 03:16:57.480 --> 03:17:03.160 percentage complete we are still working on all the items but we're working on a 03:17:03.160 --> 03:17:07.880 variety of them so for example the neighborhood empowerment zone our 03:17:07.880 --> 03:17:12.720 community services is working on that our our engineering and transportation 03:17:12.720 --> 03:17:17.640 folks are working on some of those pieces of it planning zoning is is kind 03:17:17.640 --> 03:17:21.840 of in our wheelhouse so that's what we're working on so it's there's a lot 03:17:21.840 --> 03:17:28.520 of different pieces all kind of working right now but it it is it is a long-range 03:17:28.520 --> 03:17:35.960 plan so and the long-range plan set that policy tonight we're doing that that 03:17:35.960 --> 03:17:42.400 zoning that law which which is support which is consistent with that policy in 03:17:42.400 --> 03:17:52.760 it thank you Commissioner Kettreson is there a place people can go see that so 03:17:52.760 --> 03:17:57.920 the area plan is online you can just Google Southeast Denton area plan and 03:17:57.920 --> 03:18:01.440 it'll it'll come up you can look at not only the document but we also have a 03:18:01.440 --> 03:18:06.300 dashboard on Invisio that shows everything the the staff members 03:18:06.300 --> 03:18:11.080 provide updates on a quarterly basis of what what's been what's been happening so 03:18:11.080 --> 03:18:17.600 you can look at both of those things just Google thank you this is a public 03:18:17.600 --> 03:18:26.360 hearing anyone else wishing to speak I yes I'm sorry yes Commissioner McDade 03:18:26.360 --> 03:18:33.680 Julie we have another question referring to that the question from the the 03:18:33.680 --> 03:18:37.520 gentleman that just spoke I think we were trying to get some type of timeline 03:18:37.520 --> 03:18:42.320 as far as the date so when did the small area plan start and finish and then when 03:18:42.320 --> 03:18:51.200 did this plan start and finish thank you thank you so the small area plan the 03:18:51.200 --> 03:18:59.120 kicked off in March of 2023 and so we went through all of that public 03:18:59.120 --> 03:19:06.000 engagement and then ultimately to counsel for approval in 2024 as part of 03:19:06.000 --> 03:19:10.760 that plan and the implementation it had that 53 items we started immediately 03:19:10.760 --> 03:19:15.020 working on how are we gonna work plan all of these items because I believe it 03:19:15.020 --> 03:19:21.220 was Commissioner Pruitt who said come you get these done so so we started 03:19:21.220 --> 03:19:28.640 working on those we started working on these overlays in earnest the December 03:19:28.640 --> 03:19:35.120 of 2024 with I know from the residential and then I believe also with Mia just 03:19:35.120 --> 03:19:38.880 doing the research like doing that windshield surveys and looking to see 03:19:38.880 --> 03:19:44.080 what those things are or what's in the community and and that any historical 03:19:44.080 --> 03:19:48.760 knowledge and then we and then we really started talking with the community about 03:19:48.760 --> 03:19:53.920 the overlays with the block party in March 2025 03:19:53.920 --> 03:20:04.880 I'm sorry so the part of the question was so tonight what we have tonight and 03:20:04.880 --> 03:20:10.680 what it will go to council next is there anything tonight from what you've heard 03:20:10.680 --> 03:20:16.320 that would make you a staff want to go back and change or modify anything mr. 03:20:16.320 --> 03:20:21.080 hud's best comment about the drainage is that something that we can put in this 03:20:21.080 --> 03:20:28.220 plan to address the drainage and then also mr. McDade's comment about can you 03:20:28.220 --> 03:20:33.760 move the line from East Prairie to West Prairie I was trying to follow that I'm 03:20:33.760 --> 03:20:37.840 not real good with maps but I was trying to see understand what he was talking 03:20:37.840 --> 03:20:42.160 about is there things today that are available to do some of those type of 03:20:42.160 --> 03:20:46.800 things to address them today in the plan I'll leave that part up to Mia in terms 03:20:46.800 --> 03:20:54.520 of your first question oh the drainage so as part of the area plan there is a 03:20:54.520 --> 03:20:58.600 section about infrastructure which includes some drainage drainage 03:20:58.600 --> 03:21:02.380 improvements because we actually did hear with the area planning process that 03:21:02.380 --> 03:21:06.160 there were concerns about drainage and that makes sense because there is the 03:21:06.160 --> 03:21:11.040 the the floodplain that kind of cuts through Southeast Denton so that is that 03:21:11.040 --> 03:21:15.920 is part of it it's not part of this specific thing because these were are 03:21:15.920 --> 03:21:22.400 just the the development regulations in the in terms of zoning but it is 03:21:22.400 --> 03:21:26.320 certainly something that we will talk with our drainage folks and and see 03:21:26.320 --> 03:21:32.560 where they are and see you know what the next steps would be in terms of moving 03:21:32.560 --> 03:21:42.840 forward with those and then I'll bring me then in terms of the live work overlay 03:21:42.840 --> 03:21:47.280 boundaries currently where where we are proposing is what was approved with the 03:21:47.280 --> 03:21:53.280 area plan as far as the the the limits of those general boundaries I had not 03:21:53.280 --> 03:22:00.160 heard that particular concern before so we hadn't considered amending the 03:22:00.160 --> 03:22:04.920 boundary of the live work overlay but if that is the the of course the direction 03:22:04.920 --> 03:22:10.520 of this body we can consider that with our recommendation to council I didn't 03:22:10.520 --> 03:22:15.840 want to get clarification I suppose if that if that's the case of where he was 03:22:15.840 --> 03:22:23.200 referring to I think this is there is there are two railroad train or tracks 03:22:23.200 --> 03:22:30.400 here I believe this is one right here and then this one is the this one is the 03:22:30.400 --> 03:22:34.920 other one so is this just the area that you were referring and then everything 03:22:34.920 --> 03:22:38.640 else you would like to see removed from the 03:22:49.000 --> 03:23:12.680 these here again yeah I'll leave that to the Commission to consider see if that's 03:23:12.680 --> 03:23:16.680 the direction she want to take I'll just add just one note for the live work piece 03:23:16.680 --> 03:23:23.120 of it just this is this is a these proposed uses are providing the 03:23:23.120 --> 03:23:27.480 opportunity it's not saying that any of those homes would would have to convert 03:23:27.480 --> 03:23:32.600 to any of those businesses so if there are currently property owners that are 03:23:32.600 --> 03:23:37.360 currently living in those homes they of course have the option of remaining that 03:23:37.360 --> 03:23:41.240 remaining homes until they wish to do something else with it but I understand 03:23:41.240 --> 03:23:45.120 correct me if I'm wrong but it's also not suggesting that any new development 03:23:45.120 --> 03:23:49.040 there must have a non-residential component so you'd still have the option 03:23:49.040 --> 03:23:53.520 of building a single-family home or something else there right Commissioner 03:23:53.520 --> 03:24:02.120 Dyer me and Julie just a quick question if for some reason this got approved to 03:24:02.120 --> 03:24:06.920 move on to City Council and City Council approved it one is the next opportunity 03:24:06.920 --> 03:24:11.280 that this could be revised is this like it for like the next ten years or can 03:24:11.280 --> 03:24:17.680 there be revisions to this down the road like any ordinance or code amendment 03:24:17.680 --> 03:24:24.800 there could be revisions Haley no that's exactly correct so this would be adopted 03:24:24.800 --> 03:24:29.560 into the DDC so it's just like any other part of the DDC that if staff receives 03:24:29.560 --> 03:24:34.560 direction to amend it it can be amended at any time so basically if the 03:24:34.560 --> 03:24:39.920 community members are like hey this isn't working they could reach out to 03:24:39.920 --> 03:24:44.360 any of us I mean I'm sure most of us here would would welcome feedback or 03:24:44.360 --> 03:24:48.320 City Council members and then we can talk to you guys to say this might need 03:24:48.320 --> 03:25:00.440 to go in front of DDC sure yeah okay thank you Mia any other members of the 03:25:00.440 --> 03:25:10.400 public wishing to speak without seeing any motion I will close the public 03:25:10.400 --> 03:25:15.320 hearing and I just want to thank you for for everyone who participated and spoke 03:25:15.320 --> 03:25:20.480 it's it's given us a lot of good information now open the floor for 03:25:20.480 --> 03:25:33.840 discussion or emotion from the Commission okay I'll start Julie just a 03:25:33.840 --> 03:25:45.000 couple things to wrap up here I'm sensing that one of the the challenging 03:25:45.000 --> 03:25:55.160 lines to walk here is the concern for increased demand of people living in 03:25:55.160 --> 03:26:03.800 this area of town driving up prices of housing versus the desire for continuity 03:26:03.800 --> 03:26:11.000 of design and also function of those housing options is that a correct 03:26:11.000 --> 03:26:18.040 assessment I think that's consistent with what what we're hearing with it from 03:26:18.040 --> 03:26:21.920 the community okay yeah because I guess I noticed when looking through the 03:26:21.920 --> 03:26:28.880 Southeast Denton area plan there were many comments about hey we we want more 03:26:28.880 --> 03:26:35.040 housing options from both the steering committee as well as some of the some of 03:26:35.040 --> 03:26:39.400 the survey responses but then when you did the survey specifically asking hey 03:26:39.400 --> 03:26:44.480 do we want to allow duplexes here that aren't currently allowed then then the 03:26:44.480 --> 03:26:49.720 answer was more mixed because some concern there wasn't overwhelming in 03:26:49.720 --> 03:26:56.400 terms of in the the the neighborhoods in the kind of the historic neighborhoods 03:26:56.400 --> 03:27:03.160 that are nested within the Southeast Denton boundary so you know we we heard 03:27:03.160 --> 03:27:07.120 from the community and there we heard just overwhelming concerns about 03:27:07.120 --> 03:27:12.400 additional densities within the neighborhoods and so that was why we 03:27:12.400 --> 03:27:17.680 were very careful on the residential overlay to really not touch the uses to 03:27:17.680 --> 03:27:21.840 keep that in place keep minimum lot sizes in place keep that the setbacks 03:27:21.840 --> 03:27:26.320 all of those elements in place and really just focus on those design 03:27:26.320 --> 03:27:31.080 elements okay no I appreciate that clarification I think you know we all 03:27:31.080 --> 03:27:38.000 are sensitive to affordability and price points of of the housing that is there 03:27:38.000 --> 03:27:46.080 is it fair to say from a planning perspective that as a region grows in 03:27:46.080 --> 03:27:53.640 demand that one of the biggest tools in our planning tool bag to allow prices to 03:27:53.640 --> 03:28:00.280 stay affordable is to to allow that gentle density of that missing middle 03:28:00.280 --> 03:28:05.000 where it is appropriate it is certainly something that could be used where 03:28:05.000 --> 03:28:09.520 appropriate at this time because of what we've heard from the community we don't 03:28:09.520 --> 03:28:14.680 feel like it's appropriate within the residential overlay thank you 03:28:14.680 --> 03:28:23.000 Commissioner McDuff yes I want to just assure everyone that's come here this 03:28:23.000 --> 03:28:28.600 evening that we've heard all your concerns and I believe in my heart that 03:28:28.600 --> 03:28:33.500 the staff is being wonderful in addressing our concerns and the 03:28:33.500 --> 03:28:39.560 community members concerns and I feel certain as I make this motion for 03:28:39.560 --> 03:28:47.320 approval of this proposal this evening that anything that comes up will be 03:28:47.320 --> 03:28:58.960 addressed so I make the motion for approval of this proposal chair prove it 03:28:58.960 --> 03:29:05.240 thank you Commissioner McDuff I'll just ask for clarification on things that 03:29:05.240 --> 03:29:09.160 come up would be addressed we heard several things from the community is 03:29:09.160 --> 03:29:16.000 there anything like the community serving youth activity things or 03:29:16.000 --> 03:29:20.400 operating past 8 p.m. or other things that you would like staff to look at 03:29:20.400 --> 03:29:24.000 within this motion between now and council well yes I will say that in 03:29:24.000 --> 03:29:28.560 course that Donald Cox was gone but I've known him also from back in the day in 03:29:28.560 --> 03:29:33.280 fact we worked on programs together at UNT and TWA so that's certainly one of 03:29:33.280 --> 03:29:39.360 them we're all concerned about our youth I wasn't I think more needs to be 03:29:39.360 --> 03:29:44.280 addressed on the parking problem I didn't hear quite enough on that with all 03:29:44.280 --> 03:29:49.360 the building of the new retail establishments the restaurants I think 03:29:49.360 --> 03:29:55.080 all those are good things but the thoroughfares are small like anything and 03:29:55.080 --> 03:30:01.220 didn't and not built for all the traffic and development but those are two 03:30:01.220 --> 03:30:09.900 things I have stored and then whatever else comes up as another point though we 03:30:09.900 --> 03:30:19.200 did have a rather focused comment on the revision of the sections of the map so 03:30:19.200 --> 03:30:24.360 we want to make sure we take a look at that as well East Prairie Street between 03:30:24.360 --> 03:30:31.020 the railroad track and DCTA track was the recommended area but I believe we 03:30:31.020 --> 03:30:39.200 have taken note of that mr. McDade sorry so I just want to be have some clarity 03:30:39.200 --> 03:30:48.780 on what the motion is so is is it to have staff look at these things but our 03:30:48.780 --> 03:30:53.720 recommendation is as presented or is it that we would like to modify the the 03:30:53.720 --> 03:30:58.640 recommendation from staff yours do this to me chair prove it let me go again on 03:30:58.640 --> 03:31:06.840 this I want to make a motion for approval with suggested input being a 03:31:06.840 --> 03:31:16.440 price of suggested input from the citizens in the neighborhood yeah I'll 03:31:16.440 --> 03:31:20.720 just let me let me be very clear if you want to wordsmith that that's certainly 03:31:20.720 --> 03:31:28.940 fine but my first motion stands for approval of the proposal okay so if I 03:31:28.940 --> 03:31:34.840 can try to get us focused really what I'm hearing is two potential provisions 03:31:34.840 --> 03:31:43.400 that you would like modified one perhaps the the community services use and the 03:31:43.400 --> 03:31:55.800 hours of that and the second one being whether any adjustment to the the first 03:31:55.800 --> 03:32:02.920 piece area sub area a of the live work overlay is is desired so I think those 03:32:02.920 --> 03:32:08.480 two are questions to us as we need to deliberate and and see what direction we 03:32:08.480 --> 03:32:18.760 need to give staff I'll accept that so so just for for procedure wise is your 03:32:18.760 --> 03:32:25.480 motion to recommend the proposal as is but monitor those two things or is your 03:32:25.480 --> 03:32:31.680 proposal to to include one of those or both of those within the motion I would 03:32:31.680 --> 03:32:37.960 say include one the revision of the map and monitor the other okay the use 03:32:37.960 --> 03:32:42.960 services if that's acceptable to you it's not me it's the Commission as a 03:32:42.960 --> 03:32:48.560 whole yes so let me let me just restate so that we're on the same page you're 03:32:48.560 --> 03:32:56.620 moving to to recommend to council the proposal as presented with the one 03:32:56.620 --> 03:33:02.880 amendment being that the eastern boundary of the live work overlay sub 03:33:02.880 --> 03:33:12.640 area a be at the DCTA train tracks instead of on Bradshaw that's what I'm 03:33:12.640 --> 03:33:21.400 hearing okay I'm getting an affirmative from the audience yes okay so I'm sorry 03:33:21.400 --> 03:33:26.680 I misstated the street name on the eastern boundary of the current area it's 03:33:26.680 --> 03:33:39.160 the cemetery yes thank you for that correction so understood I have one one 03:33:39.160 --> 03:33:43.200 person on the other board Commissioner McDade 03:33:43.200 --> 03:33:51.000 excuse me I was wanting to get the clarification also from Commissioner 03:33:51.000 --> 03:34:04.280 McDuff and to is there a way that we can vote and with amendments and the 03:34:04.280 --> 03:34:14.120 amendments also include addressing the drainage Creek would you accept that 03:34:14.120 --> 03:34:20.760 friendly yeah let's hear from staff on the feasibility of that so the drainage 03:34:20.760 --> 03:34:23.400 issue is something that Julie mentioned is it's acknowledged in the plan that 03:34:23.400 --> 03:34:28.680 that's something staff needs to work on I believe and Charlie feel free to 03:34:28.680 --> 03:34:33.280 correct me if I'm wrong we would need to potentially do a lot more work there and 03:34:33.280 --> 03:34:37.200 that might be something not knowing the scope of the issue that could like 03:34:37.200 --> 03:34:42.080 require a bond election or something to even provide funding for that work to be 03:34:42.080 --> 03:34:44.560 able to be done because it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars of work 03:34:44.560 --> 03:34:48.960 that the city may not currently have funding set aside for but it is because 03:34:48.960 --> 03:34:52.720 it's an action in the small area plan to address it is something that would be 03:34:52.720 --> 03:34:57.680 allocated into a future budget year for us to be able to do that but at this 03:34:57.680 --> 03:35:00.520 time I don't think we know the full scope of that work to know if it's like 03:35:00.520 --> 03:35:04.480 something that could be a quick reasonable fix or something that is like 03:35:04.480 --> 03:35:12.200 a future budget item that we would need to allocate funds for good evening 03:35:12.200 --> 03:35:15.440 Commission Charlie Rosen all interim director of development service I will 03:35:15.440 --> 03:35:19.300 stick around and talk with mr. house with afterwards about that that 03:35:19.300 --> 03:35:24.600 particular issue and and Haley what Haley said was correct since this is 03:35:24.600 --> 03:35:28.320 related to the zoning it wouldn't really have any effect over the 03:35:28.320 --> 03:35:32.440 infrastructure but that is something that's part of the plan and depending on 03:35:32.440 --> 03:35:36.000 the scope it is something that we can work on and at least get a response back 03:35:36.000 --> 03:35:46.760 to appreciate that I don't see anybody else wishing to speak I'll I appreciate 03:35:46.760 --> 03:35:52.800 very much the the motion as we narrow in on these things my preference would be 03:35:52.800 --> 03:36:03.480 to actually flip the precedence of the two things we heard to suggest that we 03:36:03.480 --> 03:36:11.920 recommend it on the condition that staff works with community leaders to to allow 03:36:11.920 --> 03:36:19.360 community services uses past 8 p.m. in some form or fashion for the proposal 03:36:19.360 --> 03:36:25.960 that goes to council and the live work overlay boundary as is for now and 03:36:25.960 --> 03:36:33.240 monitor that primarily that's just because I'm looking at a variety of a 03:36:33.240 --> 03:36:38.040 public feedback that we've gotten over the last three years three and a half 03:36:38.040 --> 03:36:49.600 years on this plan and while there's a lot of value in the you know current 03:36:49.600 --> 03:36:53.920 thoughts and concerns I think there's also a lot of value in the other five 03:36:53.920 --> 03:37:01.000 hundred some odd people and the hopes that they had and I saw several of the 03:37:01.000 --> 03:37:07.200 percentages fairly high on that those small neighborhood uses but that's 03:37:07.200 --> 03:37:12.600 that's just my my feeling Commissioner McDade I think you're on the board for a 03:37:12.600 --> 03:37:14.720 second 03:37:21.520 --> 03:37:41.120 oh I'm sorry I second it the motion from Commissioner McDade got it so we have a 03:37:41.120 --> 03:37:59.680 motion and a second any further discussion okay just so we don't get in 03:37:59.680 --> 03:38:07.480 a quagmire of people being concerned to vote for and and having a split or 03:38:07.480 --> 03:38:17.240 denial on this I'm gonna make a superior motion to amend the motion to follow 03:38:17.240 --> 03:38:23.000 what what I was proposing that that I think is a little bit more fair from the 03:38:23.000 --> 03:38:32.320 type of feedback that we got one so so leave the boundaries as is but staff to 03:38:32.320 --> 03:38:40.280 implement some ability for community services uses after 8 p.m. and so that's 03:38:40.280 --> 03:38:43.920 I'm moving for that it would need a second and then we would have to vote 03:38:43.920 --> 03:38:50.920 on that amendment and then whether that if it succeeds then we would vote on 03:38:50.920 --> 03:38:55.560 that motion if it fails then we would vote on the original motion Commissioner 03:38:55.560 --> 03:39:02.440 McDuff see you're on the board I would have accepted an amendment to my motion 03:39:02.440 --> 03:39:11.520 to include both of those items okay for modification understood 03:39:11.520 --> 03:39:19.680 Commissioner Dyer I guess I'm just a little concerned that we've got 03:39:19.680 --> 03:39:23.960 individuals that came here and feel like this was the first time that they really 03:39:23.960 --> 03:39:30.760 heard about it and I understand of those that participated the percentages were 03:39:30.760 --> 03:39:36.560 high but when you only have 16% of your community I mean I know you're not gonna 03:39:36.560 --> 03:39:41.600 get everybody and you may not even get half the community but to me 16% seems 03:39:41.600 --> 03:39:47.760 so low and I know that even when this has been in front of our Commission last 03:39:47.760 --> 03:39:51.720 year and we started talking about some of these responses and everything I know 03:39:51.720 --> 03:39:57.000 I made the concern about the communication and getting the word out 03:39:57.000 --> 03:40:02.960 and utilizing I mean we probably had close to 30 people in here and a lot of 03:40:02.960 --> 03:40:08.640 the individuals did not even so you know even I apologize I can't remember your 03:40:08.640 --> 03:40:14.080 name but the nice lady that was on the you know on the committee she didn't 03:40:14.080 --> 03:40:20.360 even understand some of the stuff so I'm wondering if city staff should do one 03:40:20.360 --> 03:40:28.560 more public meeting just one where they can hear more concerns because now you 03:40:28.560 --> 03:40:33.320 got 30 people that they probably have a bigger understanding of being in this 03:40:33.320 --> 03:40:39.400 presentation and if a presentation can be made to the community make it at the 03:40:39.400 --> 03:40:43.280 church or at you know the nearest nearby school or something where you're going 03:40:43.280 --> 03:40:47.640 through the whole presentation in front of the community that this is what we 03:40:47.640 --> 03:40:51.320 proposed this is what it used to be this is what we're proposing to make the 03:40:51.320 --> 03:40:56.840 changes what do you all feel about that how do you all think and so I I mean I 03:40:56.840 --> 03:41:00.040 don't know that I can make a motion but if I could make a motion my motion would 03:41:00.040 --> 03:41:06.000 be let's pause this and let's instruct city staff to have one more community 03:41:06.000 --> 03:41:11.600 meeting to share that just so that city staff that the community feels like 03:41:11.600 --> 03:41:16.200 their voice was heard that maybe more than 16% because I have a feeling that 03:41:16.200 --> 03:41:20.240 the 30 people were here are going to tell their neighbors you've got to get 03:41:20.240 --> 03:41:25.000 yourself there you've got to know and maybe that's one little thing that will 03:41:25.000 --> 03:41:31.320 help bridge and build back the little building blocks of trust so that the 03:41:31.320 --> 03:41:35.480 community feels that they are heard like that's that's what I would like to do 03:41:35.480 --> 03:41:49.400 and I would second yes I just wanted to throw out there while I feel like we 03:41:49.400 --> 03:41:55.000 have done far more in engagement than it I mean my whole staff went door-to-door 03:41:55.000 --> 03:41:59.320 putting out flyers in Southeast Denton twice during this process so I do 03:41:59.320 --> 03:42:03.800 apologize if some people didn't find out but we have far exceeded public 03:42:03.800 --> 03:42:08.000 engagement I would propose rather than pausing and coming back to P&D that 03:42:08.000 --> 03:42:13.400 perhaps you give us the opportunity to do we can make one more attempt and host 03:42:13.400 --> 03:42:17.560 a meeting prior to City Council but rather than putting the whole effort on 03:42:17.560 --> 03:42:22.600 pause I would suggest maybe we we do one more meeting between now and City 03:42:22.600 --> 03:42:26.320 Council and we can take that feedback to council and I under and I understand 03:42:26.320 --> 03:42:31.600 that and I recognize 18 months oh I mean a lot of work and I totally 100% get 03:42:31.600 --> 03:42:35.720 that but if you're hearing from the community that there was a lack of trust 03:42:35.720 --> 03:42:41.280 that might be why you didn't have some of the response because they weren't sure 03:42:41.280 --> 03:42:49.240 what the motivations in that were and so I'm just I would again just point out 03:42:49.240 --> 03:42:53.600 the history of the area plan I mean we went so far as to have our consultant do 03:42:53.600 --> 03:42:57.640 their own engagement without staff to avoid that perception of mistrust so we 03:42:57.640 --> 03:43:01.040 please trust us when we say we've gone above and beyond and done more 03:43:01.040 --> 03:43:05.080 engagement than has ever been done for a city project and please know I'm not I'm 03:43:05.080 --> 03:43:11.880 not saying that you haven't gone above and beyond I 100% know that y'all have I 03:43:11.880 --> 03:43:16.400 like to call the question please we have a motion on the floor in a second we 03:43:16.400 --> 03:43:25.960 have a motion and a second just to yeah yeah so so to be clear the the motion to 03:43:25.960 --> 03:43:31.000 continue is a superior motion and we have a second I believe still from 03:43:31.000 --> 03:43:38.920 Commissioner McDade is that correct I withdrew my second to the original 03:43:38.920 --> 03:43:45.760 motion right were you intending to second Commissioner Dyer's motion to 03:43:45.760 --> 03:43:55.400 continue okay so that's what we have on the floor I'll say I believe I'm the 03:43:55.400 --> 03:44:00.740 only one here on the board who's been here through this whole process I have 03:44:00.740 --> 03:44:08.280 never seen a planning project either in the city of Denton or read about 03:44:08.280 --> 03:44:12.760 something outside of the city of Denton that has gotten as high as a 16% 03:44:12.760 --> 03:44:22.480 response rate I understand we all want a hundred percent but just just for 03:44:22.480 --> 03:44:35.680 clarification staff has moved mountains I think staff's proposal that they go 03:44:35.680 --> 03:44:39.040 through especially with the people that are here tonight and their neighbors and 03:44:39.040 --> 03:44:46.480 and have one more informational moving informational meeting to sort of make it 03:44:46.480 --> 03:44:54.120 very clear what the proposal is preserves that opportunity for feedback 03:44:54.120 --> 03:44:59.400 and still preserves the opportunity for council to hear that and take that into 03:44:59.400 --> 03:45:11.680 their considerations I'm concerned that postponing again is going to going to 03:45:11.680 --> 03:45:18.420 not necessarily create a whole lot more feedback because what it's possible that 03:45:18.420 --> 03:45:22.360 that would delay the process and then the people who have come here tonight 03:45:22.360 --> 03:45:28.480 won't hear about that next meeting and it just seems clearer to me to keep 03:45:28.480 --> 03:45:35.920 going but to but to make sure that there's one more opportunity to to fully 03:45:35.920 --> 03:45:41.320 explain what the proposal is so I won't be supporting the motion to continue but 03:45:41.320 --> 03:45:48.520 as I understand it the motion is to continue to an event certain of the of 03:45:48.520 --> 03:45:52.880 staff holding another meeting and then bringing this proposal back to the 03:45:52.880 --> 03:45:57.920 planning and zoning Commission is that correct Commissioner Dyer well do we 03:45:57.920 --> 03:46:06.880 have I mean Robert's Rules of Order Commissioner Macduff made a motion but 03:46:06.880 --> 03:46:10.720 nobody's second the second was withdrawn you've made a motion but 03:46:10.720 --> 03:46:16.960 nobody's second it so are those two motions kind of dead they are okay so 03:46:16.960 --> 03:46:22.520 then yes I would like to make a motion to pause and have city staff go for one 03:46:22.520 --> 03:46:31.400 last public community presentation so that more of the community feels like 03:46:31.400 --> 03:46:38.240 they are have been informed and they can give any final feedback so that way if 03:46:38.240 --> 03:46:45.240 there's any last changes then when they come in front of planning and zoning it's 03:46:45.240 --> 03:46:49.680 a good solid plan I mean I know we're not gonna have hundred percent I'm not 03:46:49.680 --> 03:46:53.240 asking for a hundred percent just hoping that more than sixteen percent would 03:46:53.240 --> 03:47:01.640 come and that everybody you know people at the next public hearing people feel 03:47:01.640 --> 03:47:06.880 that you know they were informed and not feel like this was the first time they 03:47:06.880 --> 03:47:10.920 knew about it or that they didn't that they've known about it but just didn't 03:47:10.920 --> 03:47:16.920 have a clear understanding okay thank you and Commissioner Ketcher said I 03:47:16.920 --> 03:47:23.520 second the motion to table this okay I think we had a previous seconder but I 03:47:23.520 --> 03:47:27.320 appreciate that because I just wanted clarity on the motion like I said I 03:47:27.320 --> 03:47:31.200 won't be supporting this not because I don't believe in public engagement but 03:47:31.200 --> 03:47:38.860 because I believe we would have to double our tax rate in order to have 03:47:38.860 --> 03:47:46.280 enough money to to far exceed the 16% because we've we've done a lot with that 03:47:46.280 --> 03:47:59.400 said that's that's the motion and staff have any more Charlie yeah just a couple 03:47:59.400 --> 03:48:03.640 more things to add as far as the 16 percent goes that's of the entire 03:48:03.640 --> 03:48:09.400 population so our respondents like in a household for instance maybe we got a 03:48:09.400 --> 03:48:15.120 single respondent that responded for the entire household so just provided some 03:48:15.120 --> 03:48:19.600 additional context to that 16 percent since it's a population of the entire 03:48:19.600 --> 03:48:26.480 area and then another thing that I wanted to add on this is we still have 03:48:26.480 --> 03:48:31.120 the ability at City Council to have another round of engagement we would be 03:48:31.120 --> 03:48:37.720 happy to go and meet with the community again and talk about it and this this 03:48:37.720 --> 03:48:44.680 would also have another round of public hearing for PNC so it'd be the community 03:48:44.680 --> 03:48:51.680 coming out to this again so it's just I want to be cognizant of that too you 03:48:51.680 --> 03:48:56.640 know often we see is we have additional public hearings less people wanting to 03:48:56.640 --> 03:49:01.480 come attend and provide input in those public hearings so just want to be 03:49:01.480 --> 03:49:05.440 mindful and have the Commission consider that as well but this group would come 03:49:05.440 --> 03:49:11.480 out another evening to have these conversations thank you 03:49:11.480 --> 03:49:18.640 Commissioner McDade I live I work in the neighborhood I don't live in the 03:49:18.640 --> 03:49:25.440 neighborhood however I was I'm able to receive some of the notices even being 03:49:25.440 --> 03:49:31.920 there I only recall receiving one notification so I can understand that 03:49:31.920 --> 03:49:39.640 some people did not get it here to see it I attended the meeting the community 03:49:39.640 --> 03:49:44.080 meeting in framework part of course this is prior to my appointment on this 03:49:44.080 --> 03:49:50.160 commission and I think that the staff did a great job I really did enjoy this 03:49:50.160 --> 03:49:55.440 setup the community enjoyed that setup and I I believe you received a lot of 03:49:55.440 --> 03:50:01.720 feedback at that time with this being a public hearing tonight with the actual 03:50:01.720 --> 03:50:07.760 plan being here this is my first time seeing it so to speak to this is the 03:50:07.760 --> 03:50:12.960 plan this is what we're trying to move forward this public hearing has informed 03:50:12.960 --> 03:50:17.520 us that there are a few people who do have some modifications changes and 03:50:17.520 --> 03:50:23.680 issues and questions about what's in the plan now I say yeah let's give staff if 03:50:23.680 --> 03:50:31.360 they will please one more time and maybe we can get somebody pay for pizza again 03:50:31.360 --> 03:50:37.720 give the community one more chance to see what the staff actually came up with 03:50:37.720 --> 03:50:43.800 one more time and that's why I'm seconding the motion thank you for that 03:50:43.800 --> 03:50:50.680 clarity yeah I think we're gonna vote on this very soon unless there's any other 03:50:50.680 --> 03:50:55.480 comments only thing I'll add to that is that I 03:51:03.960 --> 03:51:08.840 I'm sorry but the public hearing is closed it sounds like no matter what the 03:51:08.840 --> 03:51:14.040 outcome is here there will be opportunities to work with staff as we 03:51:14.040 --> 03:51:27.280 move forward but I'll just say I get it if if going back for another round is is 03:51:27.280 --> 03:51:32.480 what the commission votes for I would expect certainly all those commissioners 03:51:32.480 --> 03:51:37.240 who are voting to do that to make every possible effort to actually be at this 03:51:37.240 --> 03:51:46.880 community meeting and see how much effort and time and what goes into these 03:51:46.880 --> 03:51:54.280 things we are asking and as we ask staff to do things that the capacity is not 03:51:54.280 --> 03:52:01.600 unlimited and so if this is the the priority of the Commission that's great 03:52:01.600 --> 03:52:05.400 but it does mean that other things that we put on our matrix are going to be 03:52:05.400 --> 03:52:10.240 delayed etc implementation of the southeast Denton area plan and the future 03:52:10.240 --> 03:52:14.360 steps would be delayed because it would take organizing the meeting notifying 03:52:14.360 --> 03:52:19.980 for the meeting making any changes then re noticing for the public hearings so 03:52:19.980 --> 03:52:25.640 we're probably talking about three months before it gets to council if if 03:52:25.640 --> 03:52:33.120 this is postponed as as the motion is ready is that fair okay that's that's 03:52:33.120 --> 03:52:42.680 all did you have something no okay any other comments questions I don't see any 03:52:42.680 --> 03:52:47.600 so I would call for a vote on the board this is a motion to postpone to an event 03:52:47.600 --> 03:52:54.320 certain of staff holding an additional input meeting for for the residents of 03:52:54.320 --> 03:53:09.300 the area and that item passes four to two so Julie just for the benefit of 03:53:09.300 --> 03:53:13.640 here people here can you explain the outcome of this motion and what I know 03:53:13.640 --> 03:53:17.120 we don't have any schedules yet but just so people understand so they can stay 03:53:17.120 --> 03:53:30.000 informed sorry maybe Haley I'll take it so following this motion what I've heard 03:53:30.000 --> 03:53:34.400 is we will do another round of community engagement in the form of a meeting so 03:53:34.400 --> 03:53:40.040 that will look like another postcard or door hangers whatever method we can can 03:53:40.040 --> 03:53:44.360 come up with to notify for that public engagement meeting and then there will 03:53:44.360 --> 03:53:48.320 be another round of notices sent for a future P and Z public hearing as well as 03:53:48.320 --> 03:53:53.920 a council public hearing so it was probably about a three month timeline on 03:53:53.920 --> 03:53:58.160 that at least is there a reason why you can't utilize social media and put the 03:53:58.160 --> 03:54:01.720 plan on and say hey we're having a meeting here it's that it's at this 03:54:01.720 --> 03:54:06.760 location on this date so that way you're covering lots of different forms of 03:54:06.760 --> 03:54:10.560 communication so if if we were to utilize the city social media channels 03:54:10.560 --> 03:54:13.840 that would invite the entirety of the city of Denton and whoever else might 03:54:13.840 --> 03:54:18.960 follow to that meeting whereas we are seeking a targeted audience for this so 03:54:18.960 --> 03:54:22.520 if someone is aware of a social media platform that is exclusive to southeast 03:54:22.520 --> 03:54:27.360 Denton and would like to to share that with us so that we can possibly put 03:54:27.360 --> 03:54:31.160 something out that way we can but we would prefer not inviting the entirety of 03:54:31.160 --> 03:54:35.640 Denton to weigh in on a matter that is not pertinent to the entirety of Denton 03:54:35.640 --> 03:54:42.800 doesn't Sedna have their own but my staff has been at every step in this has 03:54:42.800 --> 03:54:51.660 been I understand there's feelings here and I'll just I just wanted Hillary to 03:54:51.660 --> 03:54:57.760 to explain what the process was our staff does an amazing job of figuring 03:54:57.760 --> 03:55:03.920 out who the stakeholders are whether that's I don't know if any commissioners 03:55:03.920 --> 03:55:07.760 here have been to the Southeast Denton neighborhood Association meeting every 03:55:07.760 --> 03:55:12.040 time I've gone which is at least half a dozen times in the last three years 03:55:12.040 --> 03:55:17.840 staff have been there there are many other neighborhood associations in the 03:55:17.840 --> 03:55:25.440 city where that is not true so our staff take this area seriously okay and and as 03:55:25.440 --> 03:55:34.840 I think it was former Commissioner McDade said there's a concern that yes 03:55:34.840 --> 03:55:41.320 we want trust even a simple thing as the plan when we adopted it saying 03:55:41.320 --> 03:55:47.360 rebuilding trust instead of building trust can be interpreted as an affront 03:55:47.360 --> 03:55:54.880 so I just want people to understand but I understand we'll we'll go for another 03:55:54.880 --> 03:56:01.680 round but but nobody nobody said that we didn't have faith in the city staff or 03:56:01.680 --> 03:56:05.360 that we didn't think they were working hard we just we were just hearing the 03:56:05.360 --> 03:56:10.060 comments from the community and felt like you know maybe there's just an 03:56:10.060 --> 03:56:15.920 opportunity to have a final presentation and basically give the same presentation 03:56:15.920 --> 03:56:20.760 that they gave to us sure and and just and show it to the community so that way 03:56:20.760 --> 03:56:26.040 there's just a deeper understanding that was all I mean I know that I know the 03:56:26.040 --> 03:56:30.640 city staff works hard and and so I'm not I'm not trying to imply when I made that 03:56:30.640 --> 03:56:36.580 motion that they don't understood and sorry if I was implying the counter to 03:56:36.580 --> 03:56:40.560 that I was mostly responding to the the suggestion of reaching out to the 03:56:40.560 --> 03:56:43.960 churches yes those are all good ideas these are things I'm sure that the staff 03:56:43.960 --> 03:56:49.300 has already done in previous rounds and I'm sure they will do this I think they 03:56:49.300 --> 03:56:54.960 are taking the the will of this body with a lot of weight tonight because it's 03:56:54.960 --> 03:57:01.400 no small thing to to delay this for for doing this again they will take that 03:57:01.400 --> 03:57:06.920 seriously and and that's their job to implement the will of the body so I look 03:57:06.920 --> 03:57:12.680 forward to seeing what we can do and I will make an effort to be there as well 03:57:12.680 --> 03:57:21.000 any other questions about the process before I move on okay that's that and 03:57:21.000 --> 03:57:26.720 and just for public awareness if there's any confusion or questions that you have 03:57:26.720 --> 03:57:31.320 about when this is all gonna happen how to make sure you're notified all that 03:57:31.320 --> 03:57:36.960 kind of stuff we've got staff still here they they love the city more than they 03:57:36.960 --> 03:57:41.200 love their family so you're gonna you're gonna have time to ask them and make 03:57:41.200 --> 03:57:44.640 sure you get on a mailing list or something some method to make sure you 03:57:44.640 --> 03:57:52.640 hear about the future changes or or events with this plan with that we will 03:57:52.640 --> 03:58:02.880 move to item 6a the planning and zoning Commission matrix yes so I have a 03:58:02.880 --> 03:58:10.120 couple of items for you all first Kathy has asked me to request that everyone 03:58:10.120 --> 03:58:15.160 bring the iPads that have been issued to them to our April 28th meeting she will 03:58:15.160 --> 03:58:19.080 be collecting those and if you would like a new iPad those will be made 03:58:19.080 --> 03:58:24.640 available at the May 13th meeting if you do not want a new iPad you can also let 03:58:24.640 --> 03:58:30.320 her know that and she will not bring one for you at the April 28th meeting yeah 03:58:30.320 --> 03:58:33.400 yeah and the tech services will be working on a new set of iPads for you 03:58:33.400 --> 03:58:36.640 all that we'll have at that first May meeting for everyone to get at that time 03:58:36.640 --> 03:58:41.960 and that's the next scheduled meeting three weeks for tonight yes correct and 03:58:41.960 --> 03:58:47.900 then in terms of recent council actions just to keep you all apprised of we did 03:58:47.900 --> 03:58:52.640 have a annexation for approximately one acre of land off of Swisher Road that 03:58:52.640 --> 03:58:57.400 had an expired non annexation agreement that was recently approved that will get 03:58:57.400 --> 03:59:01.080 that placeholder zoning and then if and when that property owner wishes to do 03:59:01.080 --> 03:59:06.200 anything you'll see that come before you all for zoning and then just last night 03:59:06.200 --> 03:59:11.420 we did have two non annexation agreements that were extended to 2040 03:59:11.420 --> 03:59:15.640 for a couple of properties on Mills Road as well as the zoning change that you 03:59:15.640 --> 03:59:20.720 all saw it's been a few weeks at this point that was a rural residential to 03:59:20.720 --> 03:59:25.440 general office off of Barthold Road that was approved by council last night and I 03:59:25.440 --> 03:59:29.760 believe we'll be marking one item off the matrix with tonight's work session 03:59:29.760 --> 03:59:33.760 as well as the memo that was circulated to you all earlier this week from our 03:59:33.760 --> 03:59:37.240 transportation services team so happy to add anything else to the matrix you 03:59:37.240 --> 03:59:43.360 might like but we will make those two updates any additions to the matrix from 03:59:43.360 --> 03:59:52.560 the Commission I don't see any and concluding items item 7 any concluding 03:59:52.560 --> 04:00:01.080 items from the Commission not seeing anyway any at this time we'll thank the 04:00:01.080 --> 04:00:06.520 public for coming and like I said we all value your input look forward to where 04:00:06.520 --> 04:00:12.640 this is going to go and at 9 23 p.m. I will without objection call this meeting 04:00:12.640 --> 04:00:13.160 to a close.