afternoon on this Wednesday April 8th 2026 at 5 o 2 p.m. I will call this work
session of the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission to an order with
the quorum present. First item of business is comments on the consent
agenda from the public. I don't see any the next item of business is clarification
for items on the agenda. Any questions on the consent agenda from the
Commission? Yeah Commissioner McTuffin. Yes I have one question please. On the
Triangle Engineering proposal of Jayombe Denton on the first one it says it's
going to be platted for a hotel. Do we have any idea about with a hotel chain?
It is a Live Smart by Hilton. Live Smart. I was getting my points ready. Thank you.
All right. That brings us to our items for individual consideration. There are
three items that have been pulled and all three I believe are recommended
approval now. Is that correct? I'm sorry two items the other one was the yeah so
that's fp26008 which is 2h and fp26006 which is 2b. So 2f and 2b are now
recommended approval. Any questions on those two? Okay we've got a lot of the
rest of the individual consideration items so instead of having the parade of
people saying that we recommend that these be postponed. I believe all
of them are recommended postponed to the next meeting date. Can staff just confirm
that other than those two that I called out? Is that right? Okay we'll give
everybody eight more minutes of dinnertime if that's okay.
Excuse me. Yes Commissioner McDuff. Chair, sorry if I may back us up. Please. Just for a
minute I had a question on the consent agenda if I may. Yeah. I am just looking
at that on the cover on the agenda caption it says phase five and then I go
into the information sheet and it says third phase. Okay yeah I think that's on
the Hickory Grove. Devco, Hickory Grove. It's Ms. Hines. I'm just wondering if it's a
batch.
Mia Hines senior planner that item is for Hickory Grove phase five. You said the
third phase is where? It's on the first page of the agenda information sheet and
it says this in the background the last sentence this proposed final plan is for
the third phase of this development. That is that is an error. My apologies. This is
supposed to be for phase five. Okay and I believe it appears in the other in the
individual consideration item two. Okay. And except it's for phase six. Oh for
correction yeah this the item item 3B on the consent agenda is for phase five of
Hickory Grove and then item 4D at P26-0003 is for phase six of Hickory
Grove. Okay and that same Ms. Hines that same I don't want to say error I've done
this batching before it says third phase as well. So Hickory Grove okay yeah those
are the two corrections on that those are in error my apologies. Okay no no
worries thank you. Okay thank you Chair Pruitt. Certainly. Any other questions on
the items to be continued for the next meeting in the individual consideration.
Commissioner Dyer. So we're not going to have any discussion on any of these
items. We we certainly can it's just there's I know we have we have a heavy
agenda tonight. Yeah yeah. But I do I do have some questions on item number and
under individual consideration FP 26-0013 the equity engineering all of the
apartments. Sure. Okay hi so just kind of looking at this information and looking
at the background let me get back to that item on my screen. When you look at
was it staff analysis in exhibit two. No it was not that one it was the exhibit
one the agenda information sheet. You have in there the timeline that this
started back in 2002 but then 2019 City Council did a zoning transition October
11th 2023 it came in front of P&Z for a special use permit and then it went to
City Council for the same thing and everything got approved and then in 2025
the an extension for an approval period for the specific use permit did the
owner of the land did they that owns it now to do all this development were they
also the owners back in 2019 when they asked for the zoning change. So the 2019
zoning transition you'll see in several of our staff and or this would be on the
AIS is sort of one of those it's almost a standing point and what that is is this
reflective of the adoption of the 2019 debt and development code at which point
our zoning districts transitioned from the 02 code to the 19 and so that's
that's reflective of what it did transition to at that time I don't I
don't know off the top of my head if the owner owned it in 2019 but they didn't
request the zoning change of that that was a city request that was this that
was the zoning transition that occurred with the adoption of the 2019 DDC they
then in in 23 did submit for that SUP our SUPs are valid for a period of two
years unless you're substantially underway and that includes approval of
the final plots and CEPs due to financials and things like that they did
request that additional one-year extension the final plot does conform
with the SUP generally there are minor comments that need to be addressed which
is the reason for the plot extension tonight okay I guess I just have you know
I know we've talked a lot about apartments and I guess I just have a lot
of concerns because looking at this area there are just so many apartment
developments over there and to me this would be a great opportunity to take
this land and build different types of housing zero lot lines your townhouses
small single-family homes that are on smaller lots that might be at a similar
monthly purchase rate that maybe a rental would be at because I have been
doing some research it just shows that when you have homeowners you know
property owners it tends to provide a more stable ability and I know because
this is being recommended to be denied which is probably you know we'll
probably vote on that I'm sure we don't want to have a lot of discussion but I
guess maybe to give you guys a heads up or you know when talking to the
developer and that's why I wanted to relook at the stats that you had sent
off back in January of your what we're seeing in single-family and townhome and
I don't know what the percentage is because I couldn't you know I was trying
to quickly find it but I'm seeing here in my research that really because you
do it's not that we don't want or need to have any apartments they definitely
benefit the community and benefit citizens in a great way but I just
wonder what our ratio mix of homeowners to rentals what that ratio is and it
basically talked about that in a city if you build too many apartments and you
don't have that ratio you really want to have 60 to 75 percent owner occupied
housing and anywhere from 25 to 40 percent rental housing and then if you
exceed that 40 percent mark you can experience slower property value growth
higher infrastructure demand which is you know what's what we're seeing like
we're dealing with that right now greater budget pressure increased
political tension reduced long-term stability like there's all these
negative things so I'm just concerned and I know this is one of the things
I've asked for and I don't know we've had other than the report I don't know
that we've had a really in-depth dive but how many apartment units are in the
process of being under construction and how many are in the hopper to be built
because in landmark in that whole development I know that there are
supposed to be mixed use of apartments and rentals both in the commercial space
on the east side of 35 and also on the west side I'm sorry on the east and the
west side and everything with Quaver Ranch so I'm just kind of curious so
sorry I know I know I'm on a tangent I'm sure I know Hillary probably doesn't want
me to go on this but it's it is a bit it is just a big concern sure every time
apartments come up yes and just to remind us about Platts they do have the
approvals for the multifamily per the SUP the the plat is the legal subdivision
of land and they are meeting those requirements largely apart from the
exceptions noted in exhibit 2 so again they went through the channels and they
do have their approvals for that I do think these numbers have been accounted
for in some of the multifamily units we know that are coming online and some of
the data that has been circulated we can look into that but as far as the plat
goes this is zoned SC and it generally conforms to the lot dimensions and
requirements for SC they do have some things to clean up but it is a plat at
the end of the item so maybe this is where I need to be educated and I don't
know if it's in a setting like this or if it's in with you know one-on-one that
at what point because yes I understand if it's a plat and it meets everything
legally we have to approve it but at what point do does the city and does
planning and zoning and a city council you know kind of say okay hold on enough
on apartments let's let everything that we have sift out because what if we are
to the point where we're building too many so I don't know where that comes
into play so I think that comes into play as we update our plans and we
consider zoning change requests because the there's no zoning tool to to pull
strings in the market such that you you can no longer do this full stop right we
set the requirements for applicants we set the places where certain land uses
can occur based on the zoning and then we have a market system for developing
homes and businesses but according to zoning multifamily could be duplexes
triplexes and apartments so if you're trying to get more duplexes yeah and you
do that it kind of comes with the apartment so that's that's not yeah
there's separate land uses allowed in a separate group of zoning districts I
guess my point is just that our function as I understand it to to envision the
future of Denton and that mix of uses comes in when we revise our plans and
then when we approve zoning changes to be accordance to those plans not at the
platting stage is that yes so as a commission on a grander scale you know
that opportunity will come before you all when the city does things like city
wide code updates like we did in 2019 where there's subsequent zoning changes
that go along with that or when we update our comprehensive plan and
reimagine what the future land use map you know how that might need to change
in certain areas but as part of your day-to-day function the only
opportunity that you all would have for that is to weigh in on an individual
request for a zoning change or a specific use permit okay by the time
something reaches platting that that ship is sailed they have the land use
approvals that they have and can build any use that's permitted by right in
that district the plat is strictly the subdivision of the property as Angie
mentioned and it is largely a ministerial function for the board okay
and and I think our development community depends on that certainty where
they understand the things that are uncertain and they understand the things
that are certain as we heard a few weeks ago about the state updates last time
the several of the provisions now are in place because other communities did
things like stick plats in the pocket for almost two years without taking action
on them just because they didn't like the land use and and that is when the
state stepped in to say you can't do that so is that my understanding
consistent with yours the shot clock bill and the reason you see so many
extensions as for the reasons you described yes thank you okay but I think
you had is that all on this item or you may have had some other individual
consideration items you wanted to see no that was that was really it on this on
this side okay and again I'm not trying to skip anything I just I just don't want
to shortchange the work sessions no I know it's just yeah yeah okay and and
I'll just remind you know if there is something legitimate for a you know code
reason within the DDC that you find to have issue with a plat then that's a
valid circumstance staff would request that you state what that specific reason
is yeah so that they can trace back because for for future reasons they
would need to refer back to that Commissioner McDuff is a quick comment I
did have another comment on individual consideration on the quiddity
engineering in miss Angie's already sat down just a quick one but I will comment
that commissioners dyers concern it will not go away for the record
miss Angie we I have a question here on my just a quick question I believe this
is for two lots of record and one is up for apartments the multifamily and one
is parkland could could you give us a little more information on the park land
sure so SUPs have a similar sort of negotiation opportunity that plan
developments have in which we're seeking that a use has been adequately mitigated
in this case so as part of this the area that you see shaded is the largely lot
to some of this is on the the apartment tract but it'll remain as open space
they're currently it's codified in the SUP that's approved and adopted and the
applicant is working with parks as well to bring forward a development agreement
that will dedicate that lower the second lot for future parkland for the
extension of the pecan Creek trail so that will remain open space in
perpetuity per the SUP the plot will not be approved until that is done that's
one of the reasons it's on the agenda for an extension they need to work
through parks board and City Council just like the plot needs to work through you
all and City Council so that area that you see shaded is for future parkland
it's codified in the SUP it'll remain that way all right thank you Angie
anything else on the the items to be postponed in the individual
consideration section okay thank you that brings us to sorry yes since we
don't see the subdivision variances so often it's 4 ev 26 - 5 Matt if you
wouldn't mind showing us that and reminding us what we do with these
yeah good evening Commission Mapo Dean assistant planner here presenting a
subdivision variance request V 26 - 0 5 so this subdivision variance is
associated with the replat that is on the agenda today and it's with a lot
that currently is both in the Sea of Denton and in the ETJ that's about a
little short of a mile north of loop 288 so the reply is seeking to divide this
property into two lots along city limits now the residential lot which is the one
on the the right in the ETJ only has access to a public road via an existing
private access easement now there is a provision in the code that no more than
three residential lots can take access to a public road via a private access
easement now in cases where that's where there is a hardship for a person being
able to subdivide they apply for this variance and so as part of the larger as
the larger presentation there are four criteria that need to be considered in
order to approve a subdivision variance I go over those as more in detail in the
in the presentation essentially staff is recommending approval of this variance
which would then allow the plat to be approved due to hardships related to the
particular layout of development in this area which has essentially led to this
situation where this lot needs this variance before you today as mentioned I
run to more detail in the as in the public meeting but can answer any
questions at this time questions I have one just so that we help everybody
understand I believe if this were an RR zoned lot within the city of Denton then
our five acre minimum for platting would apply however because it's in the ETJ we
don't apply that minimum is that correct you do not apply that minimum to lots in
ETJ the zoning on the parshin that is in the city have a slide I believe it's our
four doesn't meet those criteria I'm sorry I was thinking this was further
north than it is it's it is pretty far north the city's there's a just a strip
along North Locust that's within city limits that goes pretty far up there got
it Commissioner McDuff did I see a question mark okay anything else I don't
see any as thank you Matt okay that brings us to our first public hearing
item 5a HL 26 - 1 good evening chair commission Cameron Robertson historic
preservation officer oh it's right on the screen perfect and this is HL 26 0 0 1 a
this is a request for historic landmark designation at 1403 Ken Dove Drive it is
a Mount Miller home design circuit 1959 it doesn't meet approval criteria one
three four nine eleven and twelve which I'll go into more detail during the
public hearing portion it is zone residential three it is a rental
property as well it does mean our done 2040 comprehensive plan goal community
character to as well as our 2019 historic preservation plan goal number
one policy 1.3 which looks at prioritizing eligible properties and
areas for landmarking and historic districts so staff is recommending
approval as it complies with the criteria criteria for approval in our
section 2.9.4 B and does meet that dent in 2040 comprehensive plan as well as
our 2019 historic preservation plan yeah Commissioner McDuff I'm sorry
McDade I just had a question if something receives a historic landmark
designation does it become property tax exempt or anything like that they would
have to go through that process so that process for a tax exemption would be up
to 50% of their city property tax that would have to go in front of the
historic Landmark Commission as well as City Council but to be eligible just to
even apply for that application they had to have spent a minimum of ten thousand
dollars towards the improvement and maintenance of their property Commissioner
McDuff yes a comment I have a concern rather I have a concern that what this is
a designation for historic landmark and it is a short-term rental that seems
incongruous to me didn't seem to match so I have a concern for the integrity of
the property and the property camera correct me if I'm wrong I believe it is
a rental home I don't know that it's I don't believe it has a short-term rental
correct but regardless there there's nothing in the coder criteria that says
how a home has to be used necessarily it's the structure itself that would
receive the historic designation correct so it is currently a rental property it
is occupied by a UNT professor this the AIS says short-term rental it used to be
a short-term rental okay but it's a it's a rental property right currently yes
occupied by a UNT member commissioner day what are the benefits to a property
owner to get this designation so it would just be the one historic tax
exemption so currently at the local level we only offer one historic tax
assumption currently and it's that up to 50% of that city property tax otherwise
if it was an income producing they could look to go for state and federal
designation but that the city has no jurisdiction over so basically since this
is not their primary residence there's no home studying so there's there's no
protection in the valuation when I'm Denton cat assesses them so they're
basically taxed a little bit higher than if it was their their main their main
property so there would be a significant tax savings to the homeowners and
actually a loss of money to the city if they got this and applied for the tax
exemptions yes that is correct if they went for the tax exemptions there's no
guarantee as that's a whole separate process separate from the actual
designation but that is to say yes there could be a potential loss staff has done
diligent research of that at the last two years and it currently the number
of properties that are getting receiving that tax exemption it's only about six
two thousand dollars that we're losing each year okay thank you okay just one
question for clarification because I heard something new to me when you said
that the income producing tax credit I don't remember if it's a credit or an
exemption for commercial income producing properties that requires a
historical designation separate from this one yes it would have to be at the
state or federal level okay so at the local level this the only tax credit
that we have available is for what is essentially would be an owner occupied
home or a residence itself but not for income producing commercial property
like you see downtown okay and maybe I'm just not clear on the definitions but
does income producing property include a property that's leased out to a renter
they can yes okay but that like I said that's a whole different process they
would have to go through a nomination process with the county sure to then go
for state and federal eligibility or designation and then they'd have to go
through a separate tax exemption process where they would also not be able to do
certain renovations and changes to the property okay understood any other
questions thank you that brings us to our second public hearing item 5b DCA 26 -
- good evening and just it's a lot of information on this I'm sure we will be
properly briefed I will say we received a few written letters of support in
opposition so once you get to the end or maybe it's already in the middle of it
if you could explain how many of those we've gotten over the whole period of
public engagement and kind of what staff's view is on that and if we have
any idea what the issues are at that level we may not know but I will try to
address that if I don't let me know we're good thank you for this work
session I just have a really brief overview we'll be happy to answer any
questions our our presentation for the for the regular session I think is 43
slides so we won't we won't do that to you on work session but I do and I
promise we'll be quick at regular session but I do want to just talk
briefly about what we're doing tonight so really excited as you may know we
adopted the southeast in an area plan in July of 2024 as part of that area plan
we did a tremendous amount of public engagement and we listened to the
community and the concerns of the community and and some of the things
that the community really indicated was that they wanted to protect their their
neighborhoods and they also wanted to provide things that could strengthen
their neighborhoods to provide to provide opportunities for the for the
community members so we have three overlays that were recommended as action
items in the area plan these were a pretty big priority of the plan they
were short-term action items and so they so we wanted to get on them as quickly
as possible so the proposal tonight before you is is to amend the didn't
development code sub chapter 4 to add three new overlay districts within the
southeast Denton overlay area the first one is the height overlay district and
that one is the area in blue community members indicated to us that they were
concerned about downtown style development encroaching into southeast
end the height overlay district is intended to provide a more gentle
transition for that area between the DCTA facility the transit station and
then those those residential more residential neighborhoods so the height
overlay is intended to just keep the heights a little lower provide a better
transition the live work overlay I don't have a whole lot of detail if you have
specific questions I'm going to bring me up on that one but that is intended to
to really do two things protect residential homes while reintroducing a
variety of small businesses in an area that was historically had some businesses
throughout the area planning process we heard that Prairie was was a main
street for southeast end for a very long time and and that's kind of the zoning
doesn't really allow those types of uses right now so in order to can bring back
that that type of use that live work district is is proposed once again with
items that are with protections for the surrounding residential neighborhoods
because we want to make sure that that they they mesh together well and then
finally the residential overlay district this is this is proposed to really
maintain the scale and character of existing residential areas the southeast
end developed over many decades starting in the 20s all the way up to even homes
are being built there now and so we want to make sure that anything that is built
in there is reflective of the special character and and and the look and feel
of southeastern so the the proposed regulations within that that residential
overlay district aren't you spaced they really are design based so that was all
I was going to talk about for the work session I'll be happy to go through any
oh engagement sorry I looked at you and then I remembered I we have a we do have
a slide on public engagement we have listed out all the things we did we had
a we had 40 engagement opportunities when we prepared the southeastern area
plan we estimate that we had about 529 people participate with the area
planning effort which is about 16% of the residents in southeastern we heard
from the community and that's and what their concerns were and and that's how
we got to those action items that we're moving forward with tonight but we
wanted to validate make sure we had all of that information correct so we went
back to the community in March of 2025 for a block party to really ask some
more deep dive questions about what these overlays would eventually look like
took that information went back start writing started writing up the the
regulations we took those back to the community for Juneteenth last year we
also held neighborhood or community workshops last fall for both property
owners and for non on owner occupied properties we've gone to Sedna we go
pretty much every month to talk to them and say are we on the right track is is
this what the community is looking to see we put out boards and flyers at MLK
and American Legion and then also of course we've had a lot of phone calls
and emails with community members as far as specific concerns it probably would
be specific to each overlay and we could certainly talk through those at the work
session if would you want to talk through those really quick I'm happy
either way yes I'm seeing nodding heads all right okay so in terms of what we
really got a lot of information it was at the block party last year that's
where we really had a pile of questions and we asked the community what do you
what do you think we had boards stickers all those think Mia had jars where
people could put a marble in it so we tried to do some fun things with the
community but in terms of the the residential overlay prior to the block
party we went with the planning staff did a windshield survey of Southeast
Denton and drove through the community and looked at common characteristics of
properties things like what how many stories do they have a front porch do
they what kind of garage setup do they have what is the kind of architectural
theme that the that that emerges from the different the different parts of
Southeast Denton we took all of that information and then we created this
list things like hey do you think that a front entry garage fits within
southeastern ask the community members and and they responded to those or do
you do you want to encourage front porches or stoops and the community gave
us feedback on that so based upon the feedback that we got from that that's
what that's what we went forward with we did we did go we made some other or
provided some other questions you know asking do you want something like narrower
lots or or shallower lots would you want would you want to be able to subdivide
lots so that each side of a duplex could be on its own lot so we asked some kind
of other questions too we heard from the community on those types of things that
that wasn't what they were interested in so that that's why we are really just
coming forward with the things that we heard from the community that they were
interested in in terms of opposition not not many of them gave the reasoning
we've had a lot of calls because this is kind of complicated and so we we did
talk to the property owner or did talk to those who called into us kind of
gave them just a description in more plain language also provided the the
little cheat sheet that we've put on your desk we've emailed that out to a
lot of people we also had to translate it in Spanish in case a in case a
community member spoke preferred to speak Spanish so when we talk to people
you know they seem to be like oh okay they understood it it just I think there
was some confusion about oh what is this because it is a it's a pretty it's a
pretty big deal in terms of specific for the live work I will have Mia come up
because I do not know that so Mia hunn senior planner just in terms of general
community feedback that we got from the live work component the first time
around or with doing the area in adopting the area plan we talked with our with the
community in general that's when Julie heard or what Julie mentioned we got the
feedback on the historic district or a historic business district of southeast
end in the area along East Prairie the community wanting to see that restored
but we also had some conversations subsequent conversations and
implementation with trying to figure out specifically what non-residential uses
what community-based uses they wanted to see throughout the community and in
terms of the the specific feedback that we got from that share one of these
slides here and we presented some of this information the last time we we
brought a work session item before this body since then we did relaunch an
online survey asking similar questions about the uses that the community felt
were appropriate so these numbers are slightly different from what we
presented at first but essentially this is what we got back in return and that
the community overwhelmingly or the respondents who participated
overwhelmingly had support for general retail like small-scale retail
restaurant service sit-down restaurants not drive-through restaurants personal
service so that's your barber shops nail salons things like that daycare was a
really big one childcare facilities wanting that to be permitted in the
area mobile full court was a little iffy just because some people wanted the
opportunity to be able to have those types of things but understanding that
typically with those are outdoor gatherings that comes with noise and
more traffic in the area so we're wanting we have that proposed as a
specific use permit option to really add that extra layer of check with the
community as well as you know the Commission and the City Council and then
other ones include business and trade school at 79% of acceptable professional
office at 74 and then self-service laundry at 77 percent of the area and I
think the big thing to note about the live work overlay is that you'll look you
look at the action and the way that it's written from the southeastern area plan
and it does specifically mention that the the goal of this action is to allow
for basically a vertical mix of a residential unit use and a non-residential
use within the same structure what we're actually proposing is to allow for
standalone non-residential businesses to be operating on East Prairie Street and
this is just a response to the community and the uses that they wanted to see
there and and some of the the challenges that we have come to know that are
associated with trying to mesh and have both the residential and the
non-residential use and the same structure there's more believe it or
not that we can go over within the work session but happy to answer any questions
that you only have any questions yeah Commissioner McDuff I have not have you
did you receive any negative or opposition to the plan in the proposal
because I haven't heard any we did not know not necessarily we've heard
concerns just in general about the implementation that's why we've
implemented some of the like the buffering requirement between a
non-residential use and a residential use people in general talk about you
know things that are associated with bringing businesses into an area more
parking others other things of that nature and so some of the things that we
implemented like the limited hours of operation our response to you to that as
well as like Julie mentioned the ensuring the that the character the
architectural character of the area stays the same so that way if someone is
interested in constructing a completely new building and implementing one of
these small uses it still looks like it fits in with the with the area so I
think we have heard some concerns nothing in total opposition
unnecessarily towards the live work area and then even with those concerns we
try to work them in with the operational standards and things that we are
proposing thank you very much anything I just want to say thank you to staff for
looking into the live work or code it's called work live it just depends well
you're looking at our zoning code or the building code or who knows but you know I
think this is a good first step to to start essentially making sure that our
zoning code economically allows them to happen in order to not get in the weeds
and confuse public members I'll say this here instead of in the the session
tonight but I do believe that allowing these while the AIS spoke to the fact
that we haven't seen any applications yet and they typically have higher
building code standards and that's this sort of thing if they are five thousand
square feet or less then or three thousand excuse me per the building code
they're allowed to use the IRC to build them which is a heck of a lot cheaper
the only stipulation is that they have to have a 13 D sprinkler system which is a
whole lot cheaper than the sprinkler system you put in a commercial building
so I just want to put that out there yeah for future consideration my my other
concern other than hey let's let's make sure these things that our code says we
want are viable options in other places is that since we define them as it must
be greater than 50 percent commercial I'm concerned that our existing code
would have an applicant come in and say I'm gonna build a seven thousand
square foot commercial building on this one acre lot with a 400 square foot
apartment and there's nothing you can do to stop me so yeah what this sort of
also is playing because we did look into that after the last conversation that we
had and we confirmed that yes basically our code is the kind of the opposite or
the automate automatically kicks you into the IBC because it requires the no
more than 50% be residential instead of non-residential this I think with the
with the you specific standards that we're proposing for the work live on in
this overlay it is kind of a soft launch to reversing that to see and if that
works better as a land use option within this overlay district and then
potentially we could consider a code update related to the just the use
across the city as well okay yeah I just want to thank you all for looking into
that I know it it takes time away from urgent things to dive into the weeds and
I appreciate it anything else Commissioner McDev thank you just a
question had did any of the property owners in these areas or is there any
request for any type of historic designations for any of the properties
there not that I know of I look to Julie she looks like make that is a great
question with as part of the area plan historic preservation was one of the
action items both in trying to find if the community would like historic
districts or protection but also education about the value of historic
preservation the city applied for a grant from the National Park Service to
conduct a historic resource survey in Southeast Denton it was awarded we they
would the money was was sent was funded and we are in the RFQ process so we hope
to be to start the historic resource survey in late summer early fall to find
those properties that would potentially be interested in preserving are there
some designations currently because I was thinking some of the churches had
that historic designation now I'm gonna bring camera
sorry yeah hi Karen Robertson historic preservation officer so a lot of the
properties in the southeast end neighborhood have subject markers but
they're not actually designated themselves so they have the recognition
from the state but they don't have that additional layer of protection with the
destination was that a no no
Commissioner McDuff yes I would just say I agree with Chair Pruitt on thank you
to the staff I had a note for that this is a lot of work by any measurement by
any means Julie and Mia in particular but also I'm glad that Commissioner
McDuffie has talked and brought some ideas forward some concepts and I hope
you'll do the same thing when we get in the public hearing I'm sure you will so
we can hear that there was some public comments and third thirdly there were
some some input that came in Chair Pruitt you were probably going to talk
about this some things that came in at 2 30 this afternoon I was watching my
voice record and these came into the into my email but just some concerns it
looked like same several from the same property owner but there was one in
particular that I'm interested in I'm going to read it if I may it's from
Leona Franklin and she says why I pose this request can't be in favor of where
I've lived for 57 years not knowing changes or what to expect planning and
zoning will move forward regardless so I just I wanted us to acknowledge that and
sounds like you know a long time property owner sure and I hope some of
those who sent in the written notices will will be here tonight anything else
okay that brings us to our one work session this evening which is easy
something 26 - 55 have we really had 55 work session that must include Council's
numbering - yes sorry complete tangent I'm just surprised it's 55 because that's
usually the number within the year let's let me just ask you Angie about how long
do you think this would be because it could be three slides or it could be 38
given the subject matter I don't know it's 22 okay some of them go quick but
I'll leave it up to you I think I probably talk for 15 minutes okay but why
don't could be faster yeah why don't we go ahead and take a short break to grab
dinner then if the Commission's okay with that and then we will enjoy
hopefully you'll get a chance after that to get some as well so at 551 we'll take
a eight-minute recess and be back at 559
and at 6 p.m. with a quorum present we'll reconvene for the work session report
PZ 26 - 55 thank you chair members of the Commission Angie Mangleris assistant
planning director today we're gonna do a work session spurred by one of the
matrix items just about zoning following annexations we're gonna cover a couple
topics because they all kind of relate to one another but we're gonna talk
about annexation subsequent zoning after that and then we're gonna touch a little
bit on municipal utility districts as well so again we'll go through some key
definitions we'll talk a little bit about state law annexation in the city
of Denton rezoning after annexation and municipal utility districts also known
as MUDS before we dive into annexation it's important to understand some of
the definitions of what we'll be talking about so annexation is the means by
which cities expand their boundaries the process of land transfer from one unit
of government to another cities can only annex land from our
extraterritorial jurisdiction or ETJ ETJ is the unincorporated area
contiguous to the corporate boundaries of a municipality the area or distance
of the ETJ depends on the municipalities population so the city of Denton is
greater than a hundred thousand people that means our ETJ extends five miles
out from our corporate boundaries our ETJ doesn't doesn't continue to get
bigger it's kind of set where it is today but it is good information to know
speaking of ETJ we have two types of ETJ we have ETJ division one which you see
in yellow on your screen and ETJ division two which is the pink areas that you see
in green are the city of Denton's corporate limits in ETJ division one we
do have some authority we predominantly platting so subdivision requirements in
ETJ division one do apply on occasion there may be CEPs associated with an ETJ
division one project but predominantly you may see some plats and we'll note on
those that this is in the ETJ ETJ division two we really don't have much
to say we do have an interlocal agreement with Denton County development
and subdivision of land and ETJ division two largely follows the requirements of
Denton County and any state law that they need to follow this little handy
chart breaks it down even further this covers just some of the big topics we
talk about zoning subdivision regulations tree preservation and gas well
regulations so you can see in the city limits we we can regulate all of those
things in ETJ division one we can regulate subdivision so that's sub
chapter 8 in the Denton development code and in each year division 2 we really
don't touch any of it state annexation law is a very intense history to try
and dive through tonight but some of the important takeaways are the state
legislature has gradually taken away city's abilities to annex over time this
this timeline kind of starts in 1963 and as we as we go through state really
limited how cities can annex requiring non annexation agreements for properties
that are used for ag wildlife or timberland it further got limited in 2019
and really limited the involuntary annexations that cities can do and then
recently in 2023 state law allows residents in the ETJ to submit a
petition to remove themselves from the city's ETJ so our ability to annex
especially involuntarily has really kind of been chipped away at session
over session and that's important to just understand this is a fun video it
shows how the city of Denton has changed over time so we're gonna it's about 30
seconds the area that you see in gray is the corporate limits and then the green
will be when we add new property so you can see for a while there was quite a
bit of annexation going on especially strip annexation along our major
thoroughfares and the city continues to grow around its periphery we start
adding areas like ropes and ranch and then that was later followed by some of
the hunter and coal properties and we see properties grow around the north
and then annexation after that has really been some of those we call them
donor holes but those areas in sort of like little holes around the city limits
it's the same video today we we have what we call non annexation agreements
and so state law did require for any property the city was interested in
annexing if it was used for agricultural wildlife or timber use the city had to
offer a non annexation agreement which was setting the terms under which the
city would would not annex your property the city extended these types of
agreements to owners in the ETJ between 2010 and 2016 we also extended it to
individuals who use their property for single-family only the initial
agreements expired in 2020 and we offered extensions until 2040 within the
NAA a development plan is stipulated it typically requires that lots can't be
subdivided smaller than five acres that it continues to be used for single
family use if a property owner wishes to subdivide smaller or maybe wants to have
a different use on there at that point annexation is triggered the city also
has several restrictive covenants which operates similar to NAAs but they're
actually a little bit more restrictive platting is the mechanism for which
annexation is required and so those are spelled out in the agreement that at any
time basically they want to develop they need to plot they need to annex into the
city annexation procedures annexations take a little bit of time to get through
there are procedures spelled out in the Texas local government code chapter 43
and then the city of Den both in the city charter and in subchapter 2 outline
several steps state law requires that we allow for the continuation of use so if
you're using your property in one way and we annex you we have to allow that
content to continue state law also authorizes or requires that we agree to
provide services it sets a minimum width for the land area that can be annexed it
requires continuity of city boundaries so you can't leapfrog and there's a
maximum amount of 10% of the municipalities total land area that could
be annexed in a given calendar year what that looks like when it when it comes
down to it when we see an annexation there's two council meetings at the
first council meeting we're first adopting a municipal services agreement
which is essentially saying we're interested in annexing this property
these are all of the services that the city provides we are agreeing to provide
those services to that landowner and City Council adopts that agreement
following that there's a public hearing regarding the annexation anybody is
welcome to comment on that and then we actually read the caption of the
ordinance into the record at that first meeting following the first meeting the
entirety of the annexation ordinance is published in the Denton record chronicle
and per our city charter that cannot be acted on for another 30 days so we'll
publish it and we'll just kind of hang out for 30 days and we'll have the second
meeting at which point we read the caption again into the record and City
Council can take action so that's kind of that's the process in which a property
can be annexed into the city post annexation annexation ordinances are
effective immediately and per state law we have to assign them a placeholder
zoning designation in our case we assign the rural residential zoning designation
and it's only after annexation can zoning action occur so we don't notice
properties for public hearing prior to them being in the city limits because we
don't have that land use authority yet and then from there the property will
follow our typical rezoning procedures for development that's a that's a lot of
information so we're going to walk through two examples that really show
how different the process can be or how much time it can take when we're talking
about annexation the subsequent rezoning and development so here on the left side
of the screen we have coal ranch and then on the right hand side of the
screen we have Dentex coal ranch is sort of near Robeson Ranch off of 35w and
its annexation patterns varied but it was largely annexed between 2001 and
2006 so they're annexed and they're assigned a placeholder designation
following that they were initially zoned MPC for their master plan community in
2008 and then not much happened really until 2020 when they sought major
amendments to their MPC and we have the the zoning that we have today where you
see the different shadings for the the base zoning districts which are most
familiar with it wasn't until a couple years later that we started seeing
preliminary plot approvals for coal ranch and even today you know they're
still working on some of those CEPs and final plots for their first phase so
we're talking in over 20 years before we're even seeing dirt moving on a
project like the coal ranch scale on the other hand Dentex which is just south of
Allroad Road north of Johnson Lane it's by the country lakes development in
South Denton this was annexed in 2024 immediately following their annexation
they took forward their zoning and comprehensive plan amendment cases and
those were also approved in 2024 and then today in 2026 they have received
approvals for their CEPs and their final plot is up for consideration so that
just there is no one-size-fits-all path for annexations there is no real linear
way it's very development specific obviously these large master plan
communities when we're talking about 2,000 plus acres that's going to take
some time to plan out and develop Dentex is kind of one of the donut
holes that we referred to this was all not in the city limits however it was
surrounded with the exception of these areas by city limits so it's kind of a
little bit of a hole within our municipality so it's it's filling that
in and following some of the existing development patterns so that's kind of
two different ways that annexation the subsequent rezoning and eventual land
development can play out there no one case is alike is a good way to put it
that's all I know about annexations we're talking a little bit about MUDs
which are municipal utility districts and municipal utility districts are
special-purpose districts special-purpose districts are created to provide a
mechanism to fund infrastructure in areas where they otherwise wouldn't be
MUDs specifically are created to provide infrastructure for development in most
cases it's residential development but there may be a commercial component
associated with it MUDs can be created in one of two ways either by an act of
the legislature or through TCEQ following a consent process through the
city there are stipulations for some MUDs and they can annex into the city
following repayment of their bond funding MUDs are are kind of a hot topic
we do have several they do operate in our ETJ this map shows sort of where
they're scattered but for placement this is 156 and this is 380 so we have crumb
and Sanger a lot of these are out west in the city limits we have several that
we've provided consent to and then we're also aware of a handful more that are
interested in in joining in on that process what that means is we expect
MUDs to have a population impact of approximately a hundred and eight
thousand people accounting for just under just under thirty four thousand
housing units through MUDs we are agreeing to provide utility services to
these areas usually negotiated through a development agreement in 2022 the city
did adopt a MUD policy this helps guide the framework for development agreements
and gives us a little bit of ability to ensure that we're getting utility
services the way that we would like them and we can have some say and how those
areas develop Denton is a full-service city which does make us an attractive
place the development agreements do help us to ensure we're building to city
standards and give us that opportunity for future annexation should we wish to
pursue that and then just a reminder again most of these MUDs occur in our
ETJ I'm sorry all of our MUDs occur in our ETJ it's not really an option for in
city we don't have land use control in the ETJs we kind of discussed earlier
when we adopted the 2022 comprehensive plan we noted that we had several MUDs
we were aware of and had been approved and we tried to outline those in pink
so you can see them obviously from the map we saw earlier today it has changed
a little bit but we did try to at least reflect and account for that
it's kind of ahead on MUDs I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about
either topic questions I'll kick it off with the easy and fun questions if you
could go early back in the mud I think that the actually that last one will do
just fine yes I've always been curious how the ETJ borders operate between us
and cities within our ETJ 2 to determine the line between our ETJ and their ETJ I
think from looking this at this map it tells me that essentially their ETJ 1
beats our ETJ 2 and then is that accurate I'm just I'm just curious if we
know it looks like Hillary were you preparing to chime in this gets a little
bit out of some of my competing ETJ area of expertise I think it's to be quite
informal more of a dib system like whoever got their first and staked claim
but you can see looking at like Sanger and Crumb they because of their
population size only could go out so far so that enabled us to further surround
them and limit any potential growth of their ETJ by then laying claim to the
other areas and I would say the ETJ 1 and 2 I believe is probably unique to
Denton I've not heard of other cities that have that that is actually just a
product of our inner local agreement with the county and us divvying up who
was going to have subdivision authority over those areas but feel free to chime
in if I misstated anything there I would only expand on one concept is that the
calling dibs is governed by when a city reaches those different population
thresholds that Angie showed earlier in the presentation so if Sanger got out
to a one mile radius before we were at our five mile radius that's why you see
us kind of surrounding them thank you the more you know with the whole
rainbow thing interesting and then I've also always been curious I understand
that the non exit annexation agreements that we have have those requirements
that you described is council bound to continue all of those agreements or if
they wanted to in the future could they release the landholder of their
requirements sure so they they have set expiration dates and the the initial
ones in 2020 at that time we evaluated because we can offer them for a period
of up to 45 years and so the the question at that time was do we want to
continue to to honor this and just only trigger that annexation when either more
really in that case when they want to develop so currently right now we're
still working through some of those ones that haven't quite responded and the
action has been if they're not renewing to annex but we're not actively looking
to break any of those agreements okay
questions yeah Commissioner McDuff a big date so do muds have any type of
authority to work they get their authority from the state yes so do they
have the ability to levy taxes or anything like that in their mud or
additional tax they do but I'm gonna let Charlie address that because he's very
knowledgeable yes so the muds do you have the ability to either levy ad valorem
tax on the property itself or they're able to recover those costs through
special assessments in the way that they're handled so then does it become
some type of additional agreement or with whoever purchases a property within
a mud they already know they're gonna pay additional taxes because of the mud
yeah so it's it's disclosed at the time that the property is sold that they're
within a mud and it's similar to what you would see on your own property taxes
where it's like different layers of city county ISD and then they would have a
separate line item they would say it's mud name and then that property tax
amount so the city would collect those taxes and send it to the mud the
appraisal district would collect those taxes and remit it back to the district
itself thank you
chairman can I piggyback on that please this is why you always ask your real
estate agent when you're looking for a house if you're looking in an area that
has a pit and a mud so you know if there's any extra taxes that you have to
pay outside of your city your county and your school taxes any other questions
all right thank you Angie very much that brings our work session to a close I
believe so at 620 p.m. we will break and reconvene at 630 in council chambers
thank you good evening at 632 p.m. this Wednesday April 8 I will call this
regular session of the city of Denton planning and zoning Commission to order
with a quorum present let the record show that Commissioner Riggs is absent
our first order of business is to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance to the
U.S. and Texas flag
that brings us to our next item of business item to a PZ 26 - 51 consider
the approval of the March 18th planning and zoning missions minutes
Commissioner catcher said and Commissioner Garland seeing no discussion
I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our consent
agenda I will note that there was a typo in the agenda information sheet on item
3a this is actually phase 5 of this plot as opposed to phase 3 however because
the plat approves the the plat that gets recorded with the county as opposed to
the edge of the information sheet there's no issue to to approve this from a
correctness perspective do I have any discussion or motion Commissioner
catcher said a motion to approve the consent agenda Commissioner Garland and
I second that motion thank you any discussion seeing none I'll call for a
vote on the board and the consent agenda is approved 6-0 brings us to our items
for individual consideration for a FP 26 - 11 good evening chair members of the
Commission Ashley exit associate planner this is FP 26 11 this is a final plot
for honey farms estate this is an approximately 9.24 acre site on the
south side of Sanders Road at this time the staff does recommends denial as they
do not meet the criteria for approval however we have no objection to the
requested extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 and I'm happy to answer
any questions any questions or emotion Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make
a motion for the extension of this proposal to a date certain of April 29th 2026
and sorry Commissioner Kester said I second that motion
seeing no discussion with the motion and second on the board I'll call for a vote
on the board to continue that item passes 6-0 brings us to our second item for
individual consideration for be FP 26 - 6 good evening chair members of the
Commission Angie Mcglares assistant planning director this is FP 26 - 0 0 0 6
this is a final pot for the bridal ridge subdivision it's generally located north
of Johnson Lane and approximately 2,400 feet east of John Payne Road this plot
does now meet our criteria for approval and staff is recommending approval this
evening I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have thank you
Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make a motion for the approval of this
proposal in line with staffs recommendation this will be a second
extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 part pardon me to approve the
application or approve the extension approve the extension okay in line with
staffs recommendation sorry can I get clarification on his staff recommending
approval or extension yes this is one of the ones that they addressed all our
comments this afternoon we are able to get them for approval so staff is
recommending approval this evening so just can you restate your motion yes I'll
recite my motion for the approval of this proposal and Commissioner Ketchus
said I second that motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for
a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to item 4 CFP 26 - 13 thank you
Angie Mingler's assistant planning director this is a final plot for the
Alevo apartments is approximately 18 acre site located south of Duchess Drive
approximately 800 feet west of loop 288 in the city of Denton at this time the
plot does not meet all of our criteria for approval so staff is recommending
denial but has no objection to the requested extension which could be
granted to a date certain of April 29th I'm happy to answer any questions y'all
may have thank you Commissioner Ketchus said a motion to approve the extension
certain to April 29th Commissioner Garland and I second that with a motion
a second no discussion I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0
brings us to 4d FP 26 - 3 evening chair members of the Commission behind senior
planner this item is FP 26 - 3 a final plot for Hickory Grove phase 6 the
property is 66.5 to 1 acres located at the southeast corner of Jackson Road and
Nail Road in the city's ETJ and further or closer to the western edge of the
city at this time the plot is not meeting all our criteria approval so we
have we are recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested
extension to May 13 2026 and this would be their third extension for this final
plan happy to answer any questions you may have yeah Commissioner Garland the
previous item is still on the screen I was just I don't know if it's an issue
sorry okay now we're back okay you're good now thank you I have one question
just that I didn't catch in the work session this is recommended extension to
two meetings from now instead of one meeting I'm sorry no what is the what's
that next day it would be the April 29th that would be April 29 2026 okay would
be the next meeting my apologies okay just wanted to confirm that open the
floor for a discussion or emotion yeah yes Commissioner Ketcham I motion to
approve the extension request to a date certain of April 29 2026
Commissioner Garland and I'll second the extension with the motion and a second
on the board seeing no discussion call for a vote that item passes 6-0 brings us
to 4E V 26 - 5
good evening Commission map or Dean assistant planner here to present the
triptych addition subdivision variance so a little bit of background this
subdivision variance is associated with a 10 acre lot located about just under a
mile north of loop 288 there's an existing family residence on the site
it's associated with a final replat that's also on the agenda tonight
pushing to subdivide into two lots one of those lots the one in the city's ETJ
only has access to a public road via an existing private access easement which
brings us to the subdivision variance request there is a requirement in our
subdivision regulations that no more than yeah no more than three single family
lots may access a public road by means of a private access easement just do the
configuration of this area there are already more than three residential
lots that access the existing easement and so in order to approve this final
replat a variance request was made to allow more than two residential lots to
access a public street by means of a private access easement so there are
four criteria for approval of a subdivision variance I'll go through
each one individually and staff's assessment of them so the first one is
that in granting the variance it not be detrimental to public safety health and
welfare is found that these are the purpose of this replat is for two
single-family residents lots we do not see any detriment to public safety just
due to no increase in traffic burden on FM 2164 the second criteria is that
because of any particular conditions of the property or its area that the strict
regulation of the code creates a hardship staff finds that the peculiar
pattern of development in this area creates this hardship this property
cannot subdivide under the current DC regulations as is since as shown on the
screen we can see there are 12 lots that takes access off of this existing
private access easement also called the concrete road of which at least nine are
for single-family residences the third criteria is that the variance not very
any provisions of our long-range planning documents or the DDC this the
final plot associated with this variance follows all other requirements of the
DDC in addition the plot does make right away reservations for future corridors
that are called for on the mobility plan fourth and granting this variance
request the peculiar conditions should not be the results of the action of the
owner or any prior owner subsequent to the date of the creation requirement as
seen on the abstract survey shown on the screen this particular configuration of
lots with well more than three having sole access office easement has been
in effect since at least 1987 which is well before this criteria of the DDC was
put in place as such staff is recommending an approval of the
requested subdivision variance as it complies with the criteria but here to
answer any questions any questions for staff or emotion commissioner dire I
move to make a motion that we go ahead and approve a recommendation to do the
subdivision variance commissioner I second that motion okay any discussion
not seeing any with a motion and a second I will call for a vote on the
board that item passes six to zero brings us to item 4f fr 26 - three
giving Commission again assistant planner I'm here presenting this final replat I
was associated with the subdivision variance that we just approved and since
PNC did vote to approve that subdivision variance staff is recommending approval
of this replat as it would meet all the required requirements of the DDC thank
you and this would be refer to the the version of the plot that was emailed to
the commissioners this afternoon okay Commissioner Kettreson I recommend
approval for this final plat and Commissioner Dyer I'd like to second
that motion and seeing no discussion having a motion and a second I'll call
for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to item 4g mp 26 -
four good evening Commission here to present a final plot of lots one and two
block a was that Zipetta edition located in the city's ETJ off of Gribble Springs
Road and north of Shepherd Road at this time this plat doesn't meet our
criteria for approval however staff has no objection to their first extension
requests to a date certain of April 29th Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like them to
make a motion to approve a first extension to a date certain of April 29th
2026 which would be in agreement with the staff recommendation and Commissioner
Garland and I'll second that recommendation having a first and second
and seeing no discussion call for a vote on the board that item passes six zero
moves us to item 4h FP 26 - eight good evening Julie Wyatt principal planner
of the city of Denton I'm presenting FP 26 eight to you this evening this is a
single lot located on the south side of Vintage Road just east of I 35 West the
purpose of it is sorry it's two lots the purpose of it is for a charter school
and then a commercial lot for future development your your agenda posted had
a staff recommendation of denial they still had some final items to work
through however they have worked through those with staff and so staff has
changed its recommendation to approval you should have received that revised
plat today so I'll be happy to answer any questions any questions Commissioner
McDuff yes that's why thank you for that information want to make a motion to
agree with staff recommendation for approval and Commissioner Dyer I'll
second that motion having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion call
for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to four I FP 26 - 12
good evening this is a final plot for an industrial development the property is
located just east of I 35 south of highway 77 and north of loot 288 they at
this time the plot does not comply with our criteria for approval so staff is
recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested first
extension to April 29th and I'll be happy to answer any questions
Commissioner Kutcher said a motion to approve their recommended the requested
extension to a date of April 29 2026 Commissioner Garland and I will second
that extension having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll
call for a vote on the board
that item passes six zero brings us to our last item for individual
consideration for JFP 26 - for Canadian Chair and Commission this is for the
final plot for landmark phase two north it is approximately 184 acre site
generally located north the north side of Robson Ranch Road approximately one
mile west of I 35 West at this time staff has no objection to the first
requested extension as they do not meet the current criteria for approval but we
are looking at an extension date to a certain of April 29 2026 I can say for
any questions I guess I have one we earlier we had one that we had the date
wrong for an extension do applicants have the ability to ask for an extension
that's longer than the next meeting they only have this so so for bigger ones
where there's more things to address we just have to keep coming back okay thank
you Commissioner Dyer I would like to go with staff recommendation and extend
this petition to April 29th meeting Commissioner Kutcher said I second that
motion with a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for a
vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our public hearings this
evening first public hearing is 5 a HL 26 - one Canadian Chair and Commission
Cameron Robertson historic preservation officer I stated this is a historic this
is a request for a historic landmark designation at 1403 Kendal Drive it is
located approximately 370 feet north of the intersection of Kendall Drive and
Whippoorwill Lane the owners are Jennifer and David Morales and the
construction days 1959 the property itself is located within that Denia
neighborhood it is an R3 zoning it is currently a rental property and it sits
on approximately 3.23 acres so looking this is looking at the property from
that front west facade and then it also shows that rear east facade there and
then we're also looking at the north and south facades of the property so before
I dive into staffs analysis looking specifically at section 2.9.4 B I did
just want to point to the AIS that backup packet in referring to the work
session question I just wanted to note that for historic landmark designation
process it is not subject to compliance with our criteria in 2.4.5 E of our
debt and development code which specifically calls out minimizing
fiscal impact and criteria so just want to make note of that that specifically
for historic landmark designations we're solely looking at the criteria in
section 2.9.4 B listed here so going into staffs analysis 1403
Kendall Drive does meet the following it meets criteria one which looks at that
character interest or value as part of the development heritage or cultural
characteristics of the city state or the United States criteria three reflects a
distinguishing characteristic of an architectural type or specimen criteria
four identification as the work of an architecture master builder criteria
nine exemplification of the cultural economic social ethnic or historical
heritage of the city criteria 11 identification with a person who
significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city state or the
United States and then lastly criteria 12 a building a structure that because of
its location has become a value to a neighborhood community area or the city
so I kind of grouped criteria one three and nine they're all very similar so I
wanted to show those on one slide so this property specifically 1403
Kendall it shows how Denton especially during this time as post World War two
we saw it embrace that kind of mid-century trend especially in the
Denia neighborhood as a whole we saw a lot of innovative designs kind of that
international mid-century design style we saw a lot of servant suburban style
where we see that attached carport we also saw the integration a lot of
natural landscapes so a lot of large windows a lot of window walls and a lot
of natural light as stated it captured a lot of those distinguishing elements of
mid-century modern design so that indoor outdoor flow we have that we have also
seen with some of the other Denia properties that have come forward for
designation specifically on Willow wood we also have that natural light and then
some of those exposed structural elements trying to show the innovation of
the architectural style at that time it also shows once again dd neighborhood
has a strong presence of mid-century modern homes we saw kind of see that
modernism towards the 1960s late 1950s and just this is another example of a
modernist architecture in Denia and this is specifically along Whippoorwill I'm
looking at criteria for the property was designed by the Mount Miller architects
Tom Polk Miller and Isabelle Mount and they became an architecture firm in
1946 Mount Miller a lot of people are familiar with that name they designed and
remodeled between 203 home 300 homes and commercial and institutional properties
between 1953 and 2000 within Denton and a lot within Denia so some of the exam
noted examples of Mount Miller work in Denton we have the Denton Unitarian
Universalist Fellowship we have 1900 Westridge Drive which was designated in
2024 and then we have 2012 26 Kendall Drive and then looking at approval
criteria 11 the original owner who actually worked with Mount Miller to
design the property is dr. Hiram J Freedman he served in the US Marine Corps
during and after World War two he had a long career at UNT as professor and
administrator he was the chair of the sociology department he was the first
chair of UNT Center for Studies in aging he also served on the White House
conferences on aging in 1961 1971 in 1981 and he also has an award at the
national level named after him lastly looking at approval criteria 12 a lot of
people have started to kind of associate Denia with these mid-century modern
homes specifically this property this property has been called out in walking
tours you see here the map from 2023 this was a walking tour of historic
preservation in that neighborhood and then that was done by the county and then
we have a screenshot here of a video that was done on a walking tour last
year during historic preservation month for Denton revealed in 2025 so as I say
it's been featured in lots of public architectural tours and it's kind of
part of that core group of Mount Miller homes in that area so staffs analysis
also looked at our 2019 historic preservation plan as well as our Denton
2040 comprehensive plan specifically looking at goal one policy 1.3 and goal
goal community character - - public outreach was done newspaper postings
website postings and property sign were posted in March mail notices went to
200 feet went to 25 people 500 or 156 notices we do not receive any responses
in opposition in favor or neutral so staff is recommending approval of the
request for a historic landmark designation of the property located at
1403 Kindle drive as it doesn't meet our approval criteria historic landmark
Christian did recommend approval 7-0 and the next steps would be going to City
Council on April 21st 2026 and I can stand for any questions thank you this
is a public hearing so I will open the public hearing at this time Cameron let
me let me ask with the update that you gave after the work session on the the
lists of criteria that the planning and zoning should consider for these items
I see the new list in two nine four D where is it called out that the standard
list of criteria should not apply for these applications so that is
specifically it's a big development going you don't have to apologize so it's
specifically just listed on our section two point nine point four B stating that
the HPO and the HLC shall HLC compliance with one of the following criteria and
that's under I believe it's also listed our historic landmark and historic
preservation procedures earlier in that chapter okay so this is a public hearing
I I will ask I have one card in support but an agenda item is not indicated from
mr. Donald McDade is that for the next one okay just wanted to check so I don't
have any cards to speak or in opposition or support at this time but if you would
like to speak you can come down at this time not seeing anyone I will close the
public hearing Commissioner catch his head I motion to approve the historic
landmark designation and Commissioner McDade they will be able to come back
and request tax exemption for this property as long as they have spent a
minimum of $10,000 on the property for improvement and/or restoration to the
project art to the property itself so with the owners submit documentation
invoices from yes they would have to submit documentation showing that
they've received building permits that they followed all proper city procedures
if they are required to get a building permit and they would submit that to
staff staff would review that and then it would go through to the historic
landmark Commission and the City Council for final approval and then with that
designation remained yes unless the property owner chose to remove the
designation in the future thank you I'm gonna go ahead and take the she asked
specifically designation we do have a second on the board so I'm gonna take
that before the other request to speak but we'll we'll get to everybody I
promise Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to put a formal second on the floor
please thank you and Commissioner Dyer um so are the applicants here yes
applicants are here okay so just a quick question I know we kind of talked about
this in earlier if they get this designation and they apply for the
historical tax exemptions I know you said that was just on city taxes unless
they get it correct from or get approval from the federal or the state correct
correct and because this is not their primary residents when it's not a
primary residence they do probably are paying more in property taxes to all the
entities to county school and city so there is going to be a significant
amount on this one property that they could possibly not have to pay correct
potentially I don't have the numbers in front of me and that's all up to denton
CAD but I will note that we do have other former residences that are
historic or their landmarks locally that have businesses in them or income
producing that are utilizing that tax exemption and how many in this DNA
community have this this designation to other communities to other properties to
other properties okay thank you any other questions or discussion I guess I
have one the sorry is it's more of a comment than a question sorry to go a
little field a little bit here you know in a lot of these historical designation
applications I I have a hard time viewing or understanding the relative
value of one property versus another in this case I think there's precedent here
of the prior tours of this area and and two other properties of this ilk to
support the continued designation in this area I'll say that I I disagree with
staff's analysis that the the traditional or or the the basic criteria
for approval for all items does not apply here I think it does so I think
fiscal impacts is fair game I I'm in general concerned that our policy opens
up the situation where higher value landowners can do something very minor
and get a very large tax exemption however in this case that's not what has
happened there has been major you know to to the beam investment in this
property to be able to preserve it I watched the HLC meeting on this and and
it was pretty clear the the extent of the process that the property owners
have gone through and now I remember my question to you so with that said it is
HLC looking at this historic designation and tax credit policy at a broader level
to to make sure that we are incentivizing it to the correct degree
with those requirements is that something on their matrix that's
something that HLC was working on from 2024 to 2025 but with the budget deficit
that were experienced that was put on pause okay I appreciate that I know we
can't all do three people's work I guess I'll just say I'll be supporting this
however I would hope that staff would include some clear messaging from what
what you all have heard from the board at the work session and here in this
session in order for them to understand the the concerns around the relative
benefit versus the cost and whether that's well calibrated so Commissioner
Dyer in looking back at some of the notes that were included in our exhibits
with the agenda I noticed it did have kind of the breakdown of the committee's
recommendation and it like you said it was seven to zero were there any
concerns whether you know they're similar to chair Pruitt's or maybe
similar to mine about you know the the tax exemptions and kind of taking
advantage of that because even though you can still kind of object of some
things or have some concerns but still vote to approve it but those exact
discussions aren't in there it just says there was a discussion that took place
so was there any concerns by the committee so there were no concerns
regarding the tax assumptions the only concern that they had is that the
property owner did with their renovations and looking at the historic
construction plans they did add an additional awning in the back just to
cover the porch and they did change up some of the landscaping in the front so
they just wanted to ensure that they met the rest of the criteria and then that
would not affect them with those additional additions and so staff walked
them kind of through that if those additions were to be removed it would
still be the exact same footprint and the same construction that was done back
in 1959 okay thank you of course and Commissioner McDade do the repairs have
to be done before during or after the designation so do they have to get the
designation first then do the repairs or do they have to have to have them done
before they have to have the so in this case the renovation and the restoration
project took place between 2013 to 2014 so is a year-long process so they are
coming about 12 years after the renovation and restoration process to
apply for this designation but 12 years yep so once they if they were to go
through City Council and be approved for a designation then they would be able to
utilize any work that they've done for the two years leading up to this
designation to utilize towards their tax exemption application if they sought to
seek that and Commissioner Dyer do you have something else okay no worries any
other discussion or questions from the Commission Commissioner McDuff I'm gonna
wrap this back around to neighborhoods in just a little history on top of it as
a and take this as a comment for my support of this proposal and that is if
you were indenting back in the day during this time and you were in education
you know who dr. Friedson was so this would be an honor to support this I had
the good fortune of studying in the summer in the Center for Aging so I'm
very familiar with him and his works his national reputation did just want to
remind the Commission that what's before you tonight is just the designation that
should be looked at on the historic merit of the property itself if the
owner does apply for that tax exemption that will go to City Council for their
consideration as a separate item in the future thank you yeah all I ask is that
our discussion be faithfully represented as I know staff always does a good job
of not seeing any more discussion I'll call for a vote on the board on this
item and this item passes 6 to 0 springs us to our final public hearing of the
evening so thank you for everyone being patient for the rest of the items on our
agenda let me call them sorry item 5b DCA 26 - - I'll make a brief statement just
to the the members of the public first of all thank you for coming thank you
for being engaged I would just ask that know that everyone up here is eager to
understand what your hopes and dreams or concerns or confusion or questions are
but we will be much better informed if when you come up to speak if you so
choose that you would be very clear about the provisions that staff is about
to explain that concern you or the things that you are concerned about that
were not spoken to because then we can take direct action and better understand
what those things are so please do
good evening
all right I'm Julie Wyatt this is DCA 26 to South East Denton overlay
districts I'm gonna kick this off and then me'll come in and she'll she'll do
the the second half of the presentation so we are here tonight because in 2024
the City Council approved an area plan for southeastern as part of that area
plan we had a tremendous amount of public engagement residents and
stakeholders communicated to us that they were concerned about community
protection and neighborhood protection and also providing some some additional
benefits in terms of in terms of businesses that could be brought back to
the Prairie Street area and taking that information from the community the
Southeast Denton area plan has three has three action items related to this so
I'm going to talk first about what the what the overlays are and then we'll
talk about those action items so tonight we are proposing to amend Denton
development core didn't development code sub chapter 4 to establish three new
overlay districts in Southeast Denton to implement the Southeast Denton area plan
first we have the height limitation over to overlay district that is intended to
limit the heights in that area in blue the community was very concerned about
town downtown style development encroaching into Southeast Denton
especially adjacent to the neighborhoods so that height overlay is there to try
to create a more gentle direct transition between the residential areas
and the DCTA facility on the live work overlay district that is to protect
residential homes while adding in some some small businesses in the community
Mia knows a lot more about that and she's going to talk to you about that in
a little while and then the residential overlay and that is intended to protect
the character of the neighborhoods of Southeast Denton by encouraging a
compatible architectural design as well as building scale for new structures so
and that's that area in yellow so after we set the table talk a little bit about
why we're doing this the Southeast Denton area plan as I said was adopted
in July of 2024 as part of that there were six goals that that that based upon
community engagement and input were in were embedded within the plan we won't
talk about all six tonight just the three we're talking about our honor the
culture and heritage of Southeast Denton invest in economic prosperity and
strengthen neighborhoods and housing affordability in order to achieve those
goals that the community said that they would like to see for the future of
Southeast Denton there are those three tasks and those are related to these
overlay districts and they're on your screen right there before we go into the
deep dive on what we're actually proposing just a little bit about overlay
districts I know everybody knows this but just a reminder overlay districts are
tools to implement area plans they sit on top of the existing zoning and they
they those regulations for the existing zoning stay in place except for those
things that the overlay changes so it often enhances those zoning regulations
they often require substantial coordination between staff community and
stakeholders and and so in order to make sure we get those overlay districts
correct we talked about in work session public engagement throughout the 18
months that we worked on the Southeast Denton area plan we had 40 engagement
opportunities we talked to about 529 folks throughout the the process after
adoption and as we started to move forward with these overlay districts we
we had a block block party in in southeastern in March of last year to
have some additional surveys to confirm that we were on the right track in terms
of where we needed to go those draft overlay regulations went to
Juneteenth last summer as well as some community workshops last fall we had
community workshops not only for residents of Southeast Denton but also
for those non owner occupied property owners to make sure that we talk to all
folks we also had online surveys as well as we said no meetings boards and flyers
at the MLK and American Legion and then emails and calls so we're going to first
talk about the residential overlay so that is that area in yellow and again
this is intended to maintain the scale and character of neighborhoods while
fostering community investment so what we heard during the Southeast Denton area
plan preparation is that maintaining the single-family uses and protected
neighborhood scale and character were of utmost important with for community
members we also through our data collection learned that there are 60
acres of privately held land that are potentially developable in Southeast
Denton that provides an opportunity but it also can cause some concern and what
we wanted to do is make sure that we had the proper regulations in place so that
anything that would be developed on that property would be consistent with the
community's vision so taking that information we we went we did a
windshield survey of the community so the planning department drove around
Southeast Denton and looked at all of the different facets associated with the
architecture things like building scale architectural details architectural
styles what what types of elements were were found on the homes in Southeast
Denton we compiled that information and that is what we took to the block party
with a series of questions and surveys about hey do you want more of this or is
this what you want and to try to get feedback from the community about what
they would like to encourage or what they would like to see the regulations
today are based upon that feedback as well as other feedback so we combined
that information with with kind of what what the intent for the residential
overlay was and and really it falls into three buckets we want to know what the
applicability is so who it applies to we want to make sure the building scale is
consistent with what the community wants and we also want to make sure the
architecture is the same is what the community would like to see so first we
want it we looked at the existing zoning to see what was in place to make sure
that their regulations adequately addressed what what what wasn't what
wasn't desired in the existing zoning so Southeast Denton for them for the vast
majority of the of the residential neighborhoods is our four district that
allows for a maximum building height the 40 feet and it's primarily single family
but it would allow townhomes or duplexes with approval from City Council through
the specific use process there is a portion of our three and Southeast
Denton again maximum 40 foot height single family our seven 40 feet height
and it provides it allows for a variety of residential uses as well as some
very limited commercial uses we see that a little bit along Prairie and along
Dallas or near Dallas Drive and then we've also have a little bit of mixed
use neighborhood around Robertson Street and that also allows that 40 feet based
upon its context and then we have planned development for a little bit in
Southeast Denton and also public facilities the public facilities are
things like the parks the semia is the school so we knew we had a bit you know
a maximum height the 40 feet which you could potentially build a three-story
building or two and a half story building with that height but the
community said that really one to two story buildings were most appropriate
for Southeast Denton so we're proposing to lower the maximum height within the
Southeast Denton residential overlay to 30 feet that would still allow a two
story home but it wouldn't allow those those structures to go up to three
three stories the maximum height proposed height for accessory structures
like garages accessory accessory dwelling units would be 20 feet as
proposed and that would allow one and a half stories we also looked at
architectural character we have regulations within the Denton
development code that applies citywide to residential development it is looking
at things like how much of the front facade can be in windows and doors what
kinds of architectural interesting elements you have to have on the front
of the of the structure how big the garage can be so those are things that
apply to the city citywide but after doing the windshield survey and talking
to the community we we and the special nature of Southeast Denton how unique it
is in terms of of how it relates to the street how the streetscape and and the
front porches we felt like this list probably wasn't consistent with what the
community's vision was especially in terms of like recessed entries and other
things that just wouldn't necessarily fit so we are proposing a different list
of regulations and that would be that all new homes would would have to
provide either a porch or a stoop and it would have to be usable so the porch
would have to be either 25% of the ground floor facade and the stoop 24
square feet we're also proposing to increase what what the windows and doors
that that transparency in the front from 15 percent to 25 percent and as well as
having three and a half inch trim around the windows that's more consistent with
the bug bungalow and craftsman and in ranch style homes that you see in
Southeast Denton roofs should be gabled hipped or a combination thereof that
gabled is the is the point and then hipped are our roof lines that look like
this there are other modern roof lines that houses can have things like flat
roofs or mansard roofs but they aren't necessarily consistent with the with the
architectural character of Southeast Denton where you've got more craftsmen
bungalow and ranch style homes and then we are proposing that in addition to
all of that two of the following architectural details would be
required either dormers projection window like a bay window a split garage
doors so if you had a front-facing garage door a split sort of a this is
shown as the masonry column a railing or low wall enclosing the porch or stoop
and then either multi-pane or mission style windows on the front facade so
what would this apply to we talked about this and the Plains Zoning Commission
may remember a quite a bit of discussion we had about this over the summer and
fall is what should it apply to and and where staff has landed and what we're
proposing is that it would apply to all new construction so of that 60 acres if
if the property owner did want it to develop with with single-family homes or
homes on it it would it would have to comply with the regulations if approved
for expansions it's a maybe that you wouldn't have to change the front facade
if it didn't have a porch you wouldn't have to add a porch but that the route
the heights and the roof lines would would have to comply that way you still
get sort of that that same scale that you find in Southeast Denton and then
standard maintenance would not apply so that's the Southeast Denton residential
overlay now we're gonna talk about the height overlay this one's really simple
compared to that one so this is that area in blue if you recall that area in
blue has zoning of public facilities and mixed-use neighborhood public facilities
under current zoning can go up to a hundred feet and mixed-use neighborhood
can go up to 65 feet if if if it's not adjacent to residential zoning or if
it's adjacent to residential zoning and it gets a and the property owner gets
approval of a specific use permit we're proposing to cap that at 40 feet so and
and with no provision for additional height with an SUP so that way as as
you're moving from the east to the west or or the south to the north adjacent to
to these areas right here you would have the maximum building height in in the
residential and then gradually move up to the 40 feet and that way it wouldn't
the intent is not to have buildings just loom over the residential areas so with
that I'm gonna have Mia come up and go over the live work
thank you Julie Mia Hines senior planner good evening again chair members of the
Commission I am going to talk to you about the live work overlay portion of
what we are proposing this evening I start reminding you all just of the
action from the liver that references the live work overlay district to remind
you that the intent originally here was to establish a district that focused on
allowing small mom-and-pop retail such as bookstores toy shops coffee shops
things of that nature into a portion of a single-family home with a portion being
used as a resident simultaneously and I'll keep that have that at the top here
because what we are proposing is slightly different from that but the
intent of it and the reason behind why it's different I'll explain here in a
second so just Julie went over where we are talking about here but the live work
overlay essentially covers properties along East Prairie Street between the
cemetery and the railroad on the west side of Skinner Street and then
properties along the north and south side of Robertson Street as well as the
east and west side of Cook Street we have further subdivided this overlay into a
couple of different sections based on the fact of the existing the collection
of existing uses and some of the land use characteristics of the properties
as they exist today as well as what we have in shown in our future land use on
our future land use map as the future land use designations for these areas so
that section a as you can see is approximately six acres just along East
Prairie that is where you'll see that we're really trying to push for the
reestablishment of the historic business district that Julie mentioned and allow
for standalone businesses in that area section B is the has a moderate
residential designation so you'll see more of mixed missing middle housing
options available there and then section C is are really that low residential
future land use designation area that's really intended to serve as a transition
and just allow for live work and residential uses so I mentioned in the
action that what we're proposing is slightly different from what the the
language in the action leads us to propose and the reason for that is
because we we established the live work dwelling as a part of the area planning
process to come up with the sort of creative solution to reintegrate small
business opportunities into the southeastern area this area like you
said was identified as an area that historically had some small scale
neighborhood type of businesses within it and we were tasked with just coming
up with a creative solution and overlay to allow for businesses to be in this
area again the live work dwelling overlay was our approach to that with
the intent to hopefully start with the base of what a live work use is and then
work from that to establish some standards that work specifically for the
southeastern area well what we found when we looked further into how our DDC
defines the live work dwelling use is that we require that for live work
dwelling units the residential component should not exceed 50% the residential
component should be located above or behind the non-residential portion
residential dwelling unit must be a minimum of 400 square feet which is
pretty standard and the non-residential use should be owned and operated by a
resident of the of the residential portion and with that we found that in
trying to address or trying to implement this as a land use it sort of
contradicts what we have in the ICC and how that land use is defined in the ICC
which ultimately kicks it into some higher regulations and some restrictions
that ultimately defeats the purpose of why we were trying to integrate live
work as a use within this area which was to allow for the reuse of some of the
existing structures in that area and to really create more opportunities and
remove some remove barriers not add on additional barriers to allow for small
businesses to operate in this area. Mia sorry I'm not gonna butt in here just
for the benefit of the public yes can you define the acronyms there of IBC IFC
ICC yes apologies yes so ICC is the International Code Council and they are
essentially what our from building safety purposes what our building safety
team goes by to evaluate the safety of the structural safety of buildings
within our city the IBC stands for International Building Code the IFC is
International Fire Code and the IRC is International Residential Code and
basically depending on how what your use is and what what you are doing in that
building those different codes have different requirements and things that
you have to do to your building to make sure that it's structurally sound and
safe for that use. So we went back to the community and asked specifically what
types of small business opportunities would they like to see within the area
and what we heard from the community is shown here on your screen as far as
support for the uses the community was generally in support of restaurants
general retail personal service uses so those are your barbershops nail salons
and things of that nature daycare and child child care support excuse me was
something that we heard throughout the area planning process mobile food court
was a place for gathering essentially but there was some concerns about noise
and things of that nature so we have addressed that in this proposal as well
and then other uses like business or trade school professional office self
service laundry facility banks or financial institutions and medical
offices the community we're generally okay with just again at a neighborhood
scale. So with that in section A what we are proposing again with the
characteristic of the the mixed-use neighborhood future land use designation
the moderate residential there's some low-density residential in there we are
proposing to allow for some of the uses those uses that are listed in the above
to stand alone so what we have here and this is similar to what we see as the
table of allowed uses within the DDC this is essentially the table of allowed
uses for section A of the overlay so we are proposing to allow for those uses
that I mentioned earlier we would propose or we are proposing to implement
operational standards that would limit the hours of operation of businesses in
this area from Monday through Thursday 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and then Friday through
Sunday 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. as far as architectural standards for new new
structures and new businesses they would have to apply to the residential
architectural standards that Julie mentioned as a part of the residential
overlay and then additionally any new business that locates within this area
would have to construct a 8 foot tall double face face fence or director
approved screening if there's like a line of trees or something like that
that's there that provides for adequate screening and then additionally a 15
foot wide landscape buffer between the non-residential use and the residential
use that's adjacent to it so those general standards do apply to this
section as well as the following two sections so keep those in mind hours of
operation architectural standards and landscape standards would apply to all
other sections this table and what we're proposing as standalone uses only
applies to section a additionally we are proposing land use specific standards
for these uses in section a for the most part these are simply I won't read
through all of them the details provided in your backup for the most part these
are max on the sizes that these uses can be again to maintain the neighborhood
scale and still opening up that use one of the other special use land use
specific standards is permitted hours of operations for daycares which would be
6 a.m. to 8 p.m. daily if you look back at the hours of operation limits that
we're placing on the area that is the earliest that you can drop off your kid
would be 8 a.m. we figured that 6 a.m. time window gives parents a little bit
more time in the morning to drop off kids while still respecting the later
hours of operations for the sake of the residents and then finally like I
mentioned earlier with the sort of contradiction of the live work dwelling
unit as a what we have in our DDC versus what's in the ICC we've proposed some
standards to sort of mitigate that to where a work live dwelling unit excuse
me simply defers to how the IRC IBC RFC defines it and then you have to meet
their requirements as far as building safety to ensure that that use can can
operate there as far as section B and this is just a property along Skinner
Street again we have that moderate residential future lanes designation so
with this one what we are proposing is to allow for those missing middle housing
types duplexes for plexus triplex is townhomes and again that work-live
restriction like I said if you look at the general standards that we have here
hours of operation architectural standards and landscape standards all of
those are the same for this portion of the overlay and then again that work
live dwelling unit just defers to the ICC and then finally in section C with
along Robertson Street this is more of the transitional area with low
residential and so this is essentially saying the same for the most part within
the overlay simply deferring to whatever that underlying zoning is as far as
permitted land uses and then allowing for that work live dwelling unit used to
again defer to the ICC and be constructed in accordance with architectural
standards and opera hours of operation of the rest of the live work overlay so
that pretty much concludes what we're proposing for the for those three
sections of this overlay with this project of course we did send out public
notification to the entire majority of the entire overlay as well as 200 fit
around it and 500 feet residents around it we received a few a couple of
responses in favor and 15 responses in opposition that were forwarded to this
body this afternoon with that staff is recommending approval of the southeast
in overlay district as it is consistent with the southeast didn't actions and
the criteria for approval in the DDC and I'm happy to stand for any questions I
did have a couple of frequently asked questions based on some of the calls
that we got from residents typically with us when what we've seen is we sent
out the notices and response and then people have called trying just because
the caption really can't answer everything that we try to explain here
so they've had questions about what the details of the case are and in talking
with them we've we come up with a list of frequently asked questions that we've
gotten and maybe I know we're probably about to hear from some people from the
audience but maybe could answer some of the questions that we might get this
evening so why is the city proposing this Julie kind of did a really good job
at introducing that into at the very beginning of this but essentially this
comes comes from the southeast in the area plan we are proposing this as a
result of the community engagement and the staff coordinated coordination to
implement several actions from that plan what is that plan Julie again did a good
job at sort of covering what that is but for the people in the as a reminder
this is a document which aims to rebuild trust between the city and the community
incorporate resident and stakeholder ideas and aspirations and provide
recommendations for strategies and implementable action steps to address
resident concerns encourage investment in the community while minimizing
displacement and providing guidance for future land decisions is the city taking
property and southeast didn't know that this is not a part of that is not a part
of what this proposal is we are proposing this again as a result of the
feedback that we've heard from the community essentially to add
regulations to enhance the existing base zoning districts and if this is approved
it will impact how private property owners can develop in Southeast didn't
but again this is not the city taking or appropriating private property
similarly we are not planning to we are not building homes as a part of this
designation the purpose of this again is to implement the area plan which
includes the protections of the architectural character so essentially
sets regulations for people who are interested in building homes in
Southeast didn't for those to look similar to what we already see in
Southeast didn't will the overlay district allow multifamily no the said
southeast residential overlay district regulates building design and height it
does but does not allow higher density residential uses the small section of
the South work Southeast didn't live work overlay district which does have
moderate residential as a future lanes designation does allow for more of those
missing middle housing types like townhomes duplexes and triplexes but
again that is not multifamily that is a completely different use there and then
finally will the southeast didn't overlay district increase traffic
essentially the district doesn't isn't proposing to develop property like I've
said in some of these answer they make the rules for private property owners to
follow nevertheless didn't is growing and so traffic is increasing everywhere
including Southeast didn't so we want to keep in mind that you know property
private property owners have the right to develop their property in accordance
with the regulations the latest regulations of things as didn't grows
traffic will grow but we try our best in ways to mitigate that as much as
possible sorry there are two more one other question I noticed that the
overlay district didn't include all of the Southeast didn't area why well that
was decided on in the area plan process and is specifically called out for the
specific subject areas that we've approached today or that we propose
today and then finally how does Southeast in the residential overlay
impact the an existing home if you do not intend to tear down your home
rebuild it or add on to it too much it should not impact you basically this
regulation is intended to apply to new primary or accessory structures and only
the height limit and roof forms applied to expansion of existing structures and
regular maintenance of like facade and general things for your residential
property are exempted from that so that that now concludes our presentation and
happy to stand for any questions you have Julie is also to my left questions
thank you Mia I will open the public hearing at this time Commission it's a
lot to work through I'll just ask for specific questions of staff at this time
for anything that that we want to kind of get out there so that the public as
they come to speak can understand and respond to those things before we hear
from them is there anything on that order commissioner catches it so if
somebody wanted to do some home rehab or updates would they have to comply with
this overlay no all existing homes would be conforming under this even if the
front facade did not include all of those elements in the proposed overlay
the only thing that would apply is if they were going to add like maybe a
second story then or change the roof line we are proposing that that height
limitation applied any expansions as well as the roof line okay any other
questions Julie I have a few I'm gonna be that guy
going through the southeast Stanton area plan gentrification is mentioned in
several places that's a word that people think of different things when they see
that word can you describe to us what the community conversations were about
that and what aspects of gentrification were most concerning there was concern
about gentrification and displacement throughout the area planning process you
know it it starts fundamentally from from the events of Quaker town and the
forced displacement of the residents of Quaker town and that that concern has
has has stayed with the residents that as a very traumatic event for the
community so so we're so that is kind of that basis additionally you know every
year everyone's taxes go up or neighborhoods change we've had a lot of
demographic changes in southeast Stanton so a lot is changing and and and so
where the discussion landed is we wanted to to have a plan that encouraged
actions that would allow anyone who wanted to live in southeast and could
live there stay there stay in their homes but you know make sure that there
are affordable options so as part of this this the the residential overlay
was intended that if if if somebody wanted to build a new home in southeast
Stanton that it should look like it fits there and and now that was was
important from what we heard from the community and so that's why we wanted to
take this forward as quickly as possible thank you and maybe I'm the dense one
here can you just give us a brief clear definition of what gentrification is for
those purposes we're on the same page I don't know if there is a one-size-fits-all
definition of gentrification but but there are several facets and things that
we talked about as part of the area plan so there are there's gentrification when
it terms of you just can't afford to live in your house anymore right either
either the real estate values are so expensive your kids can't buy a house
there or the property taxes are so high that it really does price people out of
their neighborhoods so that's one part and that's a really big part it's
challenging to tackle that and we're so we are there is an there is there are
parts of the area plan that do talk about that part of that 53 actions
there's also just just changes in the neighborhood where really it does
physically change that that kind of just doesn't look doesn't look the way it did
it so it changes from a fundamentally and spatially aspect in that respect the
residential overlay can assist that because if if there are new structures
in southeastern that they would continue what what is existing but when one
definition is really hard to do I appreciate that because I would hate to
try to summarize that but what I'm hearing primarily is displacement
economic displacement or forced displacement as well as building
intensity and feel of of the architectural continuity is that kind of
the and demographic change yes yeah I would for the purposes of this area
plan those are the elements we looked at in terms of gentrification thank you
very much a couple brief things the can you speak to I believe there's both a
senior homestead exemption which the city offers as well as the tax freeze
which was voted in by voters seven years ago maybe sorry I'm not great in
remembering number of years it's my understanding that those taxes or those
two elements would both afford a property property tax discount to those
sixty-five or older as well as fix their property taxes to a dollar value so they
would not increase as valuations change is that correct that is correct for over
sixty-five okay and I think that's it commissioner McDade thank you chair I
had a couple questions regarding your presentation trying to find did you find
any one architectural design in Southeast Denton that could be was there any one
architect that ever came and designed anything in Southeast Denton we have not
found that we may find that as we continue on with our research our
historic research of Southeast Denton and the future of cult the future cultural
district for Southeast Denton but at this point we were looking less about the
architects or or or who built them and more just what the form is at this point
a few more questions so a clarification to on the height building in the blue
area and the height overlay district are you saying that no three-story buildings
or structures would be allowed in the blue area so the proposed 40 feet could
allow a three-story building within it so it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily cap
it at that it would have to it would be whatever whatever a person could develop
up to 40 feet but it wouldn't it would it would allow three stories it's
possible you possible and maybe maybe I don't know if you could get four stories
out of it but three stories you could you could get would take you there
another question regarding the live work overlay are there any existing live work
areas in Southeast Denton or in the small area no what we found is that just
the use in general live work use there isn't any across the city because
speculatively most likely because of the the challenge of how it's defined in the
DDC versus how it's defined in for ICC and then would bars be allowed in that
area no restaurants would be and they could serve alcohol but they would it
would have to be less than a certain percentage of their menu sales so
restaurants can but no not bars and then in this area do any of the owners of the
property live in this current existing area now that own the property there in
this area so are there owner-occupied and that there are a few yes there are a
few on East Prairie just I think a handful along East Prairie in the
properties along Skinner are undeveloped and then there is a I want to say was
about 50/50 owner-occupied in the Robertson cook Street area do you recall
if you had any input from those owners for that area not specifically I do not
recall receiving any letters and then regarding the small area plan that has
already been proved by council and which is your what you're using as your
working document who were the members of that committee for the small area plan
I could pull that up real quick I do not have the list but yes I could pull that
up the steering committee the area plan steering committee small area the
southeast end small area planning yeah we could get like okay you don't have to
go get it right now if you can look it up for me and I apologize folks but the
other question was are there and I'm glad you brought up about the tax
exemption so there are seniors in the southeast den area who are already
receiving property tax exemptions due to them even before all of this or was that
included in the small area plan the senior in the tax freeze so the over 65
exemption has been in place in Denton for I don't I don't remember when it
passed but it's it's it's fairly new in Denton but it it predates the area plan
it wasn't necessarily a part of this it's it's just something that residents
over 65 homeowners over 65 can avail themselves of it's available and then a
clarification you mentioned that there were approximately 60 acres of land
available for development in southeast in yes let me let me go back to that so
yes there's actually 70 acres about 70 acres of privately owned land in in
southeast end ten of those are undevelopable just because of floodplain
issues but but yes everything in green is is undeveloped and then they did you
find any historical designations in Southeast Denton I think we I think
Cameron said that there aren't any locally designated they do have signage
again that's something part of the plan that we are we are working toward working
with the community to see who if if someone would like to designate their
property and to to help them through that process thank you very much sure
thank you and I'll just thank the the Commission for remaining true to my
request of asking questions that everybody can hear the answers to it
instead of dipping into deliberation at this point a few more people to speak
Commissioner Kettresett I have a couple of questions the first one is are there
any limitations on like demolition any anything that will hold off while we look
at things maybe for rehab purposes there are no limitations on on demolition so
someone could demolish their home but if it's approved if they wanted to build
rebuild it would have to be in accordance with the with the regulations
okay and then I also have a live work question so on the daycare it's the
officer from six to eight does that that seems pretty limiting for people that
might do shift work and need daycare for night because these are home daycares
correct like that would be the so why would we limit that good question so in
general all non-residential uses we're proposing to limit them to a closing
time of 8 p.m. on weekdays so that's kind of just where that closing time fell
into place we did think about just in general the need for an or earlier drop
off and basically trying to main have that balance of wanting to be as as
flexible as possible without you know it was still respecting later hours of
operation for their residences but we could look into that if that's the will
of the Commission as a modification to this Commissioner Dyer I think Hillary
will appreciate this um you were talking about the 65 and older exemptions I
would just like to say that none of us are property tax experts here so we have
to be very careful on you know the advice that we're given because I don't
really feel like some of that was accurate I am in I am in the industry
and it's Texas codes on their property taxes is very confusing so I went to
Denton CAD just to clarify and that basically when you turn 65 it's effective
January 1st of any year in which he or she turned 65 or purchases a residence
after they are already 65 or older every school district is required to exempt up
to 60,000 of the assessed value and to place a free ceiling on the their tax
amount other jurisdictions in Denton County can elect to give an optional
over 65 exemption and Denton County has elected to place a free ceiling on all
accounts with an over 65 exemption so it's really just on the school tax it
doesn't always apply to your city or your county tax and that's why it's
always very important to protest your property values every year when
assessments come out in April to try to keep up and lower your tax assessments
anything else no that I just want to make sure because that was the whole
thing is very confusing I know there was a lot of discussion about that no I
appreciate that thank you Commissioner McDuff yes and Commissioner Dyer I
thought you were going to talk about apartments and that we had too many but
I will address me is miss Hines comment on middle housing and could you talk
about that and what that means we're talking about new development I think I
believe in these overlays yes new builds so the missing middle is what we is a
term that we use to cut sort of lump in like duplexes triplexes forplexes town
home so those are the the more dense housing options that are available than
just single-family residential but not not multifamily which we classify as up
to I believe five or more units on one single lot so what we are proposing as a
portion of the live work overlay dwelling which which has a future land use
designation of moderate residential to allow for a slightly higher density than
the rest of the area is to allow for that missing middle I will say in full
transparency one of the tracks in there is zone MN so multifamily could be
permitted there but the way that the properties are surrounded it would have
to ensure access proper access through a zoning district that does allow for
multifamily and majority of those properties result are seven so it's what
we are proposing as a part of this does not propose to allow for multifamily as
a an additional use but it does propose to allow for triplexes forplexes and
duplexes and it doesn't necessarily restrict multifamily where it's already
permitted either well I just know that's been a ongoing concern in district one
and we're now we're concerned in Denton about too many apartments thank you Mia
thank you I don't see any more speakers on the board before we hear from from
the public I'll just ask Charlie not to call you out do you feel confident to
speak on some of the property tax and exemption rules as you're coming up I'll
just say I want to make sure we get this very clear it yes I I agree that's the
the statement from the Denny count Ninton County it's my understanding that
the school district is required by the state to freeze over 65 that Denton
County has frozen their portion and that the city of Denton has also elected to
freeze their portion is that yeah that's correct the city also has property tax
freeze on over 65 okay any other and that's why it's very confusing yes and
so that's why you just have to be very careful and make sure that you clearly
understand what your tax bill saying yeah no absolutely agree I don't want to
get the impression that what we're speaking of here would apply to any other
jurisdictions county or cities we're really just looking at this this overlay
that's within the city of Denton thank you for that clarification okay this is
a public hearing I have one card wishing to speak so I will pull this up first
miss Francis punch if you'd like to come forward state your name and address and
you'll have four minutes good evening I'm Francis punch I live at 2002
Busteria Street Denton Texas thank you to the staff who has worked so hard on
this this is not an easy task and you asked who was a part of the advisory
group I was one of the members I was one of the members and I came tonight and
was quite frankly irritated because a lot of the people was confused they
didn't know really what are we voting on and but I think you got ahead of a lot
a lot of my questions by asking the put placing the questions at the end thank
you thank you for that I still do have a couple of concerns if the residents can't
afford the changes that required changes what happens Airbnb's or being built in
communities like these and will there be a limit of Airbnb's and should be a
limit it if our new policy hasn't been amended and I thank you for answering
the questions about the taxes so because those remind big three big questions
thank you can they answer can they answer my questions yes I don't see any
questions from the committee but yeah Julie if you'd like to address those
thank you I'll start the answer but I probably won't finish it um okay in
terms of affordability that was something that was on our mind and in
fact the Planning and Zoning Commission kind of kind of helped guide that
discussion because there were concerns about what are the costs of front
porches because our original proposal was if you expand your property more
than 50% you have to comply with everything but after doing after talking
with builders and and some some other contractors and understanding how just
how expensive doing something like putting a front porch on or a or a
window we we we took that out of it because we felt like it just didn't also
meet our affordability standards and in terms of affordability of the other
items so if you were going to build from the ground up we did try to look at
different options in those in those architectural features to to provide a
choice based upon budgeting or a really personal style and so that was that was
the intent to have some choices there and then Airbnb is
hi Angie minglers assistant planning director just to speak a little bit
about Airbnb's and short-term rentals generally the southeast Denton overlays
that we're talking about tonight don't necessarily amend any of those adopted
provisions but just wanted to remind everybody of what we do have in place
for STR's so those were that a portion of our code was amended a little over a
year ago maybe closer to a year and a half at this point the city of Denton in
residentially zoned areas which predominantly is the area we're
discussing this evening citywide has a cap of 1,000 short-term rental units in
residential areas in addition to that property to property they cannot be
closer than 100 feet from one another so if I have one my neighbor would likely
be prohibited but maybe two houses down could have one in residential areas only
in our commercially zoned areas in our mixed-use areas it's slightly different
where those distance separation requirements do not apply but any given
multifamily development would be capped at no more than ten percent of their
overall units so we have that generally and the city is committed to evaluating
that on an ongoing basis but it isn't necessarily a part of this overlay
discussion thank you this is a public hearing so anyone who would like to come
down and share their thoughts is perfectly willing to please sorry for
the sake of mobility oh nevermind well sorry yeah I have two cards it's
confusing on the color so I apologize but yeah are you one of these white
cards yes are you in favor or do you oppose this plan are you in favor or do
you oppose the plan yeah sorry just so we have it on the on the record if you
could come back up and answer the Commissioner's question quite frankly I
was waiting to hear the rest of the discussion to make my decision because I
think a lot of people think they understand but I think it would provide
clarity if we had things side-by-side and say it was this and now it's this
because when you go you use a lot of acronyms that we don't know I may know
they don't know and they think they know but they don't really get all the
details they just don't get it so I'm holding my vote but thank you thank you
looks like we have one more question I'd like to ask a follow-up question ma'am
well because you said you were on the committee I like to discuss all this
correct correct yes and thank you for that thank you for having that input do
you feel like a lot of your concerns your suggestions during that process was
really listened to and you can see a lot of them implemented in in the plan that
Julie and Mia shared during the process I am the consultants and we yes I
thought they listened I thought they came back with them with revisions that's
why I was surprised I said what's being what's now being revised what was wrong
with the original plan but I see definitely the height definitely the
height I see that I'm a little confused still with the mixed use and always
creates pause but so yes I do think that we they listened and did best that the
best they could with the limitations okay thank you thank you Mr. Willie
Sellers if you'd like to come up state your name and address and you'll have
four minutes thank you yes Willie Sellers 930 Scott Drive Den Texas I would
like to know why is this section of then being targeted for this type of
development also I know you've set a standard for the developers that are
coming in you know the 30 feet height on the houses and stuff like that also you
had some things we're gonna have a tremendous parking problem with anything
that you bring in I know you're talking about Skinner because you already have
existing homes across the street on Skinner I know you're talking about the
area that's next to Morrison Mills so if you have that area right there you can
only come so far out and then you got to accommodate parking for your tenants or
for the individuals that are using the mix use what is that work live work work
live of one of those things and you also have a church around the street around
the corner there their hours are they have hours and church is held all the
time and then these people are going to be there 24/7 you know trying to make
money with their business so it's going to interrupt the church services etc
whatever you know they don't only meet on Sunday choir rehearsal prayer meeting
Bible study etc and I have one other question who are the stakeholders I heard
that term mentioned stakeholders so I would think the stakeholders would be
the individuals that are living so are you talking about the people that may buy
the property or the people that's going to develop the property so those are the
stakeholders or are you talking about the individuals that's actually going to
be there 24/7 all right I noticed I noticed that you mentioned the area on
shady shores that would be an ideal problem I mean place for any development
because UPS is gone the shingle place is gone and that would be an ideal place
for anything else over there I know it's in the red and the red was targeted
that's uh yeah that's shady shores okay anything else is going to be an impact
to the community based on the fact that we're going to have a parking problem
you're going to have traffic right now if you try to navigate coming up Prairie
Street right there I think that's Locust coming back in again the street right
here those apartments are sitting here those apartments sitting there you have
to drive in the middle of the street when you exit that street are you coming
straight across if there's a car coming and that you get that you're going to
introduce that same problem because we already have that problem at the corner
of Bradshaw and Prairie Street now where you put the four you put the four-way
stop there and the people that live there already they parked their car right
in the mouth of Prairie Street so when you come up to stop you're literally
sitting in the middle of the street and I can see a lot of problems until you
address the parking situation to their affairs this is going to be a cluster of
a mess because everybody has anywhere from three two and a half to three cars
and I'm talking about mom pop and maybe one kid has a car so you're gonna that's
going to be a total congestion because none of those their affairs can address
navigating me through there safely already so I can see us having a problem
I mean I'm not in an opposition of development or improvement to southeast
in but I think that we need to revisit some of the other opalescence that may
occur due to the increase and bringing additional development in thank you okay
let's just go one by one I think that'll be clearer if you could come Julie and
address the specifics that I heard about were parking how that's regulated and
maybe Mia you want to jump in I don't know as well as the stakeholders in the
public engagement so stakeholders that we we we had a few groups residents so
people who lived in Southeast Denton property owners who maybe own property
in Southeast and but don't necessarily live there and then also churchgoers or
other other folks who visit Southeast Denton on a regular basis and those are
really the kind of the groups we we try to talk to as much as possible so that
that's really the group we identified as stakeholders in terms of of parking me I
might want to talk about the live work as far as residential we did not as part
of this proposal touch our parking requirements so single-family
residential and in the city of Denton requires four parking spaces for for each
dwelling so and this would not change that if if you did build a home in
Southeast and you'd still have to comply with those regulations and then just to
adjust parking for the non-residential uses that are proposed as part of the
live work we do have that they they need to adhere to whatever they have to
supply parking on site if it's a new non-residential use so ideally we would
like we would like to see that like an existing home transform transforms its
structure into like a bookstore a small retail store something like that the
home itself could be I think like 1200 square feet which might for retail be a
parking ratio of like one per 300 one per 350 which would be just under four
spaces I believe essentially with this overlay what we are proposing that even
if the the ratio makes it so that you can do under four spaces you have to
provide at least four spaces on site for your parking lot so it's even an
increase from what we have with the current and a lot of the the the
residences the current single-family situation that just has a narrow
driveway with maybe two or three spaces on the on the lot and then I did look up
our full steering committee list it is for anyone interested in our in the
actual plan itself for everyone who was on the steering committee we have
Alexandria Valdez Raymond Redmond Reverend Reginald Logan Clifton Maxfield
Jacob Moses miss Francis punch Paul Juarez Howard Clark and Cherica Campbell
we're all stakeholder or steering committee members thank you I have a card
from mr. Donald McDade would you like to just be good afternoon Commission my
name is Donald McDade I live at 926 East Prairie in Texas and before I get into
the logistics I just want to say I look at the goal that you have and I really
wish you would take out goal number one like you're saying rebuild trust you
cannot rebuild something that was never there in the first place
Southeast Denton has been around what a hundred and something years and if it
takes 2026 to start building that trust that's embarrassing it's disrespectful
now heard y'all heard you talk about gentrification I'll go back to the trust
I don't think the fear of gentrification would be as high as the city not I think
it was 2009 come in here and rezone Southeast Ding and not involve these
people they had no idea until the project was already started that scares
anybody so I don't understand how you're gonna try to rebuild something that you
didn't want them to know about and now you're coming to him saying hey we made
a mistake that mistake is a hundred years old stop putting lipstick on that
pig because there's still a pig okay take it out also before I thought I mean
I don't have an issue with what we're doing as far as the overlay I just don't
want to I'm happy with the houses that they're gonna build I just don't want to
see any eyesores like we have on cross timbers and mill and wood and McKinney
any other house I can deal with the other issue is a lot I lost train of
thought here on my last thing I have an issue that I want to see if we can get
it corrected before we leave today and that's in the the live work a these
prairie between the railroad and Oakwood Cemetery I would love to see that
between the railroad and the DCTA track because when you go on the east side of
prairie those are resident that's a residential area I don't want these
people living in fear that something may come because you've already pushed it
out to the cemetery these they're homeowners you have the west the west
side of prairie you can do whatever you want with that but I don't want these
residents living in fear because you have something in here that that may or
may not happen let's take that out of their mind right now and let's change
let's amend the what is I don't have said the SED LWL at least the man number
a and just leave it from there from the railroad track to the DCA track also I
know that the three years that I spent on planning and zoning after what had
already been done the South East didn't I knew I could I couldn't save it I was
here for one reason and one reason only that was to keep these people informed
that what the city was actually trying to do in South East didn't I knew I
wasn't going to succeed but they had a right to know that's something that they
never had we've had a lot of I hate to say it we had a lot of poor
representation in district one we did we voted for a lot of people who didn't
have our best interests at heart and we've always been used to being stabbed
in the back but what's gonna get us now is when y'all turn around and find out
who was holding that knife that's what's really gonna upset you because there's
people who look like us who was holding the knife thank you mr. McDade I think
sorry I have one question just so I'm clear on the concerns first of all thank
you for being that conduit to the community to make sure your your
neighbors really understand what's happening I appreciate that but on your
concerns with the live work it's my understanding from statements before
that we don't actually have any of those uses now so it's hard to envision what
that would be my understanding is it would conform to the architectural
standards that we're putting in place so it would largely that the building
itself would look like a home typical in the area but it might have a sign I'm
looking at you know the main commercial hub uses of offices schools daycare I
mean that's fine if it's from the the regular railroad track to the DCA track
that I mean that that's commercial already they push the boundary all the
way down to oakwood cemetery yeah yeah let's take that out of the equation and
just focus on right I guess my my question is you know we've heard things
about parking we've heard things about height and other things is there a
particular aspect of those proposed uses that is most concerning to you or the
community members you've spoken to not really because it's hard to talk about
that when you don't really know what's coming I can say to him say well you know
if it's gonna be you know a barbershop they don't need they don't need that
much parking but until that is actually built that's when the concern is gonna
happen so I mean I don't want to go hypothetical and not knowing what's
gonna be built there so I really that's about the best answer I can give you
that until that's built then we can come back and have that conversation fair
enough I appreciate that I have I appreciate you reminding me that we'll
make sure to hit that I have one more card wishing to perhaps wishing to speak
mr. Donald Cox if you'd like to speak you're welcome to come down if you
state your name and address you'll have four minutes
good afternoon my name is dr. Donald Cox I live at 913 Cole Avenue I don't have a
question I just have a concern starting in 19 well I don't live in southeast
Denton I have been very involved with what goes on in that department that
community I'm starting back in 1979 I have been very active with youth
activities and periodically we have secured facilities none residential
facilities for those operations based on the time limit that you gave or that is
before you that would have curtailed some of our activities in the 8 o'clock
would not work kids get out of school by the time they got over to us it would
generally be around 6 so and so we would often it would not be unusual for us to
function until 9 930 it was so they could get home by 10 o'clock except in
the summer when we would go even later under your proposed plan that would not
work we have recently I have recently been looking at reviving some of those
activities again this won't stop me from doing it but I would appreciate if you
would revisit that or put some kind of something in play that would allow us
not to break the law by functioning after the closing hours that's all I
have to ask thank you thank you mr. Cox actually I have one follow-up just just
so we all are aware as you speak to the types of facilities and activities that
you've done elsewhere I suppose for those purposes can you describe what
what those activities were and whether they were indoor or outdoor I think that
would help our staff respond to that a little bit more clear it to what you're
talking about it included a lot of things from individual activities like
tutoring recreational activities mostly indoor things the outdoor activities
took place elsewhere on a regular basis and if you know I can't really put them
down into we did everything you name it we did it I should take this
opportunity to say one of your fellow members at 16 years old was one of the
participants call any names but she has to be smiling right now very good thank
you very much your legacy is present yes that was all I don't see any other
questions that's all the cards I have but like I said I think there was one
more person may be willing to speak come on up my apologies for the low chairs
name is Willie Hudson I live at 623 Newton Street can you move the slides to
a to one of the pictures that shows the County Jail and Thomas Rivera school
is that the drain area right in between okay that's good in about 2005 I believe
that's when they widened that this Creek area here
or the cursor
okay how can I indicate where the Creek is
well the area that I'm concerned about as I said 2005 they widen they meaning
the city widened that drainage area and
this area is widened the Creek areas was widened and I was told that the reason
that they widen it so that the water would flow would it not mean a
restrictions but now the silt and silting has taken place and dirt is now
back in the Creek and I've requested that they do what they said they would
do they would clean it out in five years ago but no one's been out there yet to
clean that drainage area out I don't know that this is the place to bring
that up but if we're planning for that area I have property there and I own the
part of the Creek area bright that's behind my house but I can't do anything
to it it's an easement area the city has the right to not allow things to be
built there so that it wouldn't impede the water but I can't get anybody over
there and I've talked to the park department several times to clean that
area out so that now when it rains it's on my property way much larger area of
my property is flooded because of the dirt that is in that Creek area so if
you're talking about developing Southeast Denton well I'm just one
homeowner that's concerned about that Creek area but I own quite a bit of it
and I haven't gotten any help with trying to get keep it cleaned out now
it's a it's an area that I would like to develop and continue developing my
homeowner my home in that area but I need to know what is the plan if any to
deal with that area that's being filled in with dirt now that was removed several
years ago thank you I'll just say I will take it upon myself if I'm still here on
this board when the citywide stormwater plan comes to us to make sure that that
issue is is addressed I think there's there's a number of different ways to
to address stormwater and I'll be looking for for a plan to keep those
maintained anybody else who would like to speak is welcome to come down yes
if you'd state your name and address you'll have four minutes
Zalinda P. Graham 1501 Val Verde according I just have one question
because I think everything's been addressed that I was concerned about but
I think it was Mia that said that 15 people voted no do you know what the
reasons were they for this proposal well it wasn't you okay please yes so the
majority of the response letters did not have really a reason but there there
was I know there was one that that was concerned about changes to the property
without without how was it said changes to the property without consultation
from the property owner because he had lived in Southeast Denton for 57 years
and was concerned so but the others there weren't any real specific reasons
as to why if I recall correctly okay Commissioner Dyer Julie sorry so kind of
going back to that because I noticed was that Leona Franklin who had that
concern so I I know that you guys did so many different events and did mailers
and did surveys and all this stuff and I think you said that there was like five
or six hundred participants that you had was that all different people or were
you just telling the people that you talked to so some of them could have been
repeated because I just came to multiple events I would imagine we do have some
repeats in there but we with the area plan we tried a variety of ways because
because when we first started the first series of listening sessions we really
had a very specific you know an older community member and primarily homeowner
community member and we wanted to branch that out so we actually did
additional to make sure that we hit all the demographics we want to get younger
people and and families and so so that was really important in the plan so we
tried to do a variety of ways so we did do the you know the the standard postcard
and then we also did things like intercept surveys where we essentially
stood in the community where people were going to be and and tried to talk to the
community members we were really successful on pop-ups at Juneteenth as
well as national night out talking to parents as they're picking up their kids
at MLK going to set in the meetings so we we tried to get creative to make sure
that we talked to people who wouldn't normally sit in a postcard to to the to
the city and then and then for the block party we actually kind of retooled we
thought about we're like okay how do we get more we started putting on door
hangers on the door so for these community meetings we put door hangers on
on residence doors and then we also mailed postcards to properties maybe it
wasn't unoccupied or it wasn't developed because we wanted to get here from
everybody we also Spanish speakers we we made sure that we had everything
translated into Spanish as well as had someone at the meeting to translate if
that was necessary so we tried to we tried to him all we probably didn't get
everybody we could have gotten but we yeah well obviously it's so hard to get
everybody but I'm you know I'm going to ask kind of a difficult question and I
don't know that you can provide an answer but you know hearing a couple
people having concerns about you know past distrust and and things like that
and some of the concerns tonight like do you feel like you got a good
representation of feedback do you feel like hearing some of the concerns you
need to go back and kind of get some more or do you feel like you really got
a good sampling of the community with the recommendations that you know you
and the staff have all made you me and the staff well I'll start it and Haley
may jump in and but so the southeast end area plan we had you know we really had
good coverage we talked to a lot of folks but but as you keep coming back
you it kind of gets less and less and so for instance our community meetings last
fall we're not very well attended so we we kind of felt like we were at a point
that everybody who was going to give us feedback had provided that information
to us but we're always willing to hear more so and I don't know if Haley wanted
to correct me or add anything said yeah okay thank you I guess to follow up on
that I saw one of your slides that said there was like a 14% response rate or
something yeah I got the percentage wrong I got it's 16% my recollection is
you know if you look at like local election turnout in this area it's
typically sub 10% so it seems like through this process we were able to to
hear from even more than the number of people who typically vote is that
accurate well we talked with other members of the city especially looking at
what kind of responses did they have for the community survey and they got a
response rate of 9 to 11 percent so I felt like we were within that ballpark
on that I looked at survey monkey to to see like what they said you should do and
they said anywhere between 10 and 30 percent is good of course a higher
percentage is always better thank you just to follow up on a couple of
questions from the public there was one about the community services use for for
some young members of the community and whether the hours at 8 p.m. would be the
limiting factor or whether we have other provisions in the code to allow that is
that something we can clear up not as it is currently proposed if they if that
user their operations would be operating out of a non-residential building in
this area then they would be restricted to those if it were at like American
Legion or MLK or something like that then they would just be restricted to
whatever those hours operations are so I'm not sure where but we're I'm happy
to get some more information from that individual to see what we can if we can
propose something that might help okay and then there was there was also an
additional item from sorry from mr. Sellers that I had in my brain and now
I've let it why targeting the area exactly so I can I can set up an answer
and then maybe can see if Julie or Haley wants to correct me so the southeast
in area plan as a as an area plan was was a recommendation that came out of
the broader comprehensive plan to with of many areas of the city including the
northeastern area and the downtown area to lock in on because we as a city have
experienced some development interest in those areas so we know that they're
either they're sensitive areas because of the existing land use context or in
this case because of the culture and the history and the the sort of current
zoning as it's situated now and some of the things that we've heard or concerns
from the areas these plans were attempted to get a full understanding a
comprehensive understanding of what those concerns are for this area and
then adopt a plan that allowed us to deal with the development interest that
we've been seeing around those areas in a way that meets the community's needs
and vision for those areas so Southeast didn't is is one of those areas that was
identified by the comp plan and which is a policy direction from council that's
why it was that that area plan is was adopted and we took on that process and
then that's why this is this is an action out of that area plan that's why
it's before you this evening thank you this is a public hearing would anyone
else like to come down and speak you're welcome to I'm not an auctioneer but
once twice thrice yes come on down
grant glass 1121 Hill Street in Texas so this is the first notification I've
gotten about anything that we have going on here right now so we have the 40
engagement opportunities did did you guys send this or did you guys send this
who sent this one yeah I can address that so so the the people on the
Commission with the exception of the two next to me are residents of the city
who've been appointed by City Council to serve on this board so luckily we're not
in charge of doing those important items because we may not follow through on
things but the people who you've heard present the various applications those
are city staff that that do the sending of the notifications okay so in the in
the process of everything that's going on if we were to give a percentage of
this is how close we're being we're done to being finished where are we right now
that's a great question whoever wants to take that it's been a while since I
looked at the implementation chart I know we're marching down toward that so
the area plan is is a 10-year plan with most of the action items really were
kind of short-term to get them done as quickly as possible in terms of
percentage complete we are still working on all the items but we're working on a
variety of them so for example the neighborhood empowerment zone our
community services is working on that our our engineering and transportation
folks are working on some of those pieces of it planning zoning is is kind
of in our wheelhouse so that's what we're working on so it's there's a lot
of different pieces all kind of working right now but it it is it is a long-range
plan so and the long-range plan set that policy tonight we're doing that that
zoning that law which which is support which is consistent with that policy in
it thank you Commissioner Kettreson is there a place people can go see that so
the area plan is online you can just Google Southeast Denton area plan and
it'll it'll come up you can look at not only the document but we also have a
dashboard on Invisio that shows everything the the staff members
provide updates on a quarterly basis of what what's been what's been happening so
you can look at both of those things just Google thank you this is a public
hearing anyone else wishing to speak I yes I'm sorry yes Commissioner McDade
Julie we have another question referring to that the question from the the
gentleman that just spoke I think we were trying to get some type of timeline
as far as the date so when did the small area plan start and finish and then when
did this plan start and finish thank you thank you so the small area plan the
kicked off in March of 2023 and so we went through all of that public
engagement and then ultimately to counsel for approval in 2024 as part of
that plan and the implementation it had that 53 items we started immediately
working on how are we gonna work plan all of these items because I believe it
was Commissioner Pruitt who said come you get these done so so we started
working on those we started working on these overlays in earnest the December
of 2024 with I know from the residential and then I believe also with Mia just
doing the research like doing that windshield surveys and looking to see
what those things are or what's in the community and and that any historical
knowledge and then we and then we really started talking with the community about
the overlays with the block party in March 2025
I'm sorry so the part of the question was so tonight what we have tonight and
what it will go to council next is there anything tonight from what you've heard
that would make you a staff want to go back and change or modify anything mr.
hud's best comment about the drainage is that something that we can put in this
plan to address the drainage and then also mr. McDade's comment about can you
move the line from East Prairie to West Prairie I was trying to follow that I'm
not real good with maps but I was trying to see understand what he was talking
about is there things today that are available to do some of those type of
things to address them today in the plan I'll leave that part up to Mia in terms
of your first question oh the drainage so as part of the area plan there is a
section about infrastructure which includes some drainage drainage
improvements because we actually did hear with the area planning process that
there were concerns about drainage and that makes sense because there is the
the the floodplain that kind of cuts through Southeast Denton so that is that
is part of it it's not part of this specific thing because these were are
just the the development regulations in the in terms of zoning but it is
certainly something that we will talk with our drainage folks and and see
where they are and see you know what the next steps would be in terms of moving
forward with those and then I'll bring me then in terms of the live work overlay
boundaries currently where where we are proposing is what was approved with the
area plan as far as the the the limits of those general boundaries I had not
heard that particular concern before so we hadn't considered amending the
boundary of the live work overlay but if that is the the of course the direction
of this body we can consider that with our recommendation to council I didn't
want to get clarification I suppose if that if that's the case of where he was
referring to I think this is there is there are two railroad train or tracks
here I believe this is one right here and then this one is the this one is the
other one so is this just the area that you were referring and then everything
else you would like to see removed from the
these here again yeah I'll leave that to the Commission to consider see if that's
the direction she want to take I'll just add just one note for the live work piece
of it just this is this is a these proposed uses are providing the
opportunity it's not saying that any of those homes would would have to convert
to any of those businesses so if there are currently property owners that are
currently living in those homes they of course have the option of remaining that
remaining homes until they wish to do something else with it but I understand
correct me if I'm wrong but it's also not suggesting that any new development
there must have a non-residential component so you'd still have the option
of building a single-family home or something else there right Commissioner
Dyer me and Julie just a quick question if for some reason this got approved to
move on to City Council and City Council approved it one is the next opportunity
that this could be revised is this like it for like the next ten years or can
there be revisions to this down the road like any ordinance or code amendment
there could be revisions Haley no that's exactly correct so this would be adopted
into the DDC so it's just like any other part of the DDC that if staff receives
direction to amend it it can be amended at any time so basically if the
community members are like hey this isn't working they could reach out to
any of us I mean I'm sure most of us here would would welcome feedback or
City Council members and then we can talk to you guys to say this might need
to go in front of DDC sure yeah okay thank you Mia any other members of the
public wishing to speak without seeing any motion I will close the public
hearing and I just want to thank you for for everyone who participated and spoke
it's it's given us a lot of good information now open the floor for
discussion or emotion from the Commission okay I'll start Julie just a
couple things to wrap up here I'm sensing that one of the the challenging
lines to walk here is the concern for increased demand of people living in
this area of town driving up prices of housing versus the desire for continuity
of design and also function of those housing options is that a correct
assessment I think that's consistent with what what we're hearing with it from
the community okay yeah because I guess I noticed when looking through the
Southeast Denton area plan there were many comments about hey we we want more
housing options from both the steering committee as well as some of the some of
the survey responses but then when you did the survey specifically asking hey
do we want to allow duplexes here that aren't currently allowed then then the
answer was more mixed because some concern there wasn't overwhelming in
terms of in the the the neighborhoods in the kind of the historic neighborhoods
that are nested within the Southeast Denton boundary so you know we we heard
from the community and there we heard just overwhelming concerns about
additional densities within the neighborhoods and so that was why we
were very careful on the residential overlay to really not touch the uses to
keep that in place keep minimum lot sizes in place keep that the setbacks
all of those elements in place and really just focus on those design
elements okay no I appreciate that clarification I think you know we all
are sensitive to affordability and price points of of the housing that is there
is it fair to say from a planning perspective that as a region grows in
demand that one of the biggest tools in our planning tool bag to allow prices to
stay affordable is to to allow that gentle density of that missing middle
where it is appropriate it is certainly something that could be used where
appropriate at this time because of what we've heard from the community we don't
feel like it's appropriate within the residential overlay thank you
Commissioner McDuff yes I want to just assure everyone that's come here this
evening that we've heard all your concerns and I believe in my heart that
the staff is being wonderful in addressing our concerns and the
community members concerns and I feel certain as I make this motion for
approval of this proposal this evening that anything that comes up will be
addressed so I make the motion for approval of this proposal chair prove it
thank you Commissioner McDuff I'll just ask for clarification on things that
come up would be addressed we heard several things from the community is
there anything like the community serving youth activity things or
operating past 8 p.m. or other things that you would like staff to look at
within this motion between now and council well yes I will say that in
course that Donald Cox was gone but I've known him also from back in the day in
fact we worked on programs together at UNT and TWA so that's certainly one of
them we're all concerned about our youth I wasn't I think more needs to be
addressed on the parking problem I didn't hear quite enough on that with all
the building of the new retail establishments the restaurants I think
all those are good things but the thoroughfares are small like anything and
didn't and not built for all the traffic and development but those are two
things I have stored and then whatever else comes up as another point though we
did have a rather focused comment on the revision of the sections of the map so
we want to make sure we take a look at that as well East Prairie Street between
the railroad track and DCTA track was the recommended area but I believe we
have taken note of that mr. McDade sorry so I just want to be have some clarity
on what the motion is so is is it to have staff look at these things but our
recommendation is as presented or is it that we would like to modify the the
recommendation from staff yours do this to me chair prove it let me go again on
this I want to make a motion for approval with suggested input being a
price of suggested input from the citizens in the neighborhood yeah I'll
just let me let me be very clear if you want to wordsmith that that's certainly
fine but my first motion stands for approval of the proposal okay so if I
can try to get us focused really what I'm hearing is two potential provisions
that you would like modified one perhaps the the community services use and the
hours of that and the second one being whether any adjustment to the the first
piece area sub area a of the live work overlay is is desired so I think those
two are questions to us as we need to deliberate and and see what direction we
need to give staff I'll accept that so so just for for procedure wise is your
motion to recommend the proposal as is but monitor those two things or is your
proposal to to include one of those or both of those within the motion I would
say include one the revision of the map and monitor the other okay the use
services if that's acceptable to you it's not me it's the Commission as a
whole yes so let me let me just restate so that we're on the same page you're
moving to to recommend to council the proposal as presented with the one
amendment being that the eastern boundary of the live work overlay sub
area a be at the DCTA train tracks instead of on Bradshaw that's what I'm
hearing okay I'm getting an affirmative from the audience yes okay so I'm sorry
I misstated the street name on the eastern boundary of the current area it's
the cemetery yes thank you for that correction so understood I have one one
person on the other board Commissioner McDade
excuse me I was wanting to get the clarification also from Commissioner
McDuff and to is there a way that we can vote and with amendments and the
amendments also include addressing the drainage Creek would you accept that
friendly yeah let's hear from staff on the feasibility of that so the drainage
issue is something that Julie mentioned is it's acknowledged in the plan that
that's something staff needs to work on I believe and Charlie feel free to
correct me if I'm wrong we would need to potentially do a lot more work there and
that might be something not knowing the scope of the issue that could like
require a bond election or something to even provide funding for that work to be
able to be done because it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars of work
that the city may not currently have funding set aside for but it is because
it's an action in the small area plan to address it is something that would be
allocated into a future budget year for us to be able to do that but at this
time I don't think we know the full scope of that work to know if it's like
something that could be a quick reasonable fix or something that is like
a future budget item that we would need to allocate funds for good evening
Commission Charlie Rosen all interim director of development service I will
stick around and talk with mr. house with afterwards about that that
particular issue and and Haley what Haley said was correct since this is
related to the zoning it wouldn't really have any effect over the
infrastructure but that is something that's part of the plan and depending on
the scope it is something that we can work on and at least get a response back
to appreciate that I don't see anybody else wishing to speak I'll I appreciate
very much the the motion as we narrow in on these things my preference would be
to actually flip the precedence of the two things we heard to suggest that we
recommend it on the condition that staff works with community leaders to to allow
community services uses past 8 p.m. in some form or fashion for the proposal
that goes to council and the live work overlay boundary as is for now and
monitor that primarily that's just because I'm looking at a variety of a
public feedback that we've gotten over the last three years three and a half
years on this plan and while there's a lot of value in the you know current
thoughts and concerns I think there's also a lot of value in the other five
hundred some odd people and the hopes that they had and I saw several of the
percentages fairly high on that those small neighborhood uses but that's
that's just my my feeling Commissioner McDade I think you're on the board for a
second
oh I'm sorry I second it the motion from Commissioner McDade got it so we have a
motion and a second any further discussion okay just so we don't get in
a quagmire of people being concerned to vote for and and having a split or
denial on this I'm gonna make a superior motion to amend the motion to follow
what what I was proposing that that I think is a little bit more fair from the
type of feedback that we got one so so leave the boundaries as is but staff to
implement some ability for community services uses after 8 p.m. and so that's
I'm moving for that it would need a second and then we would have to vote
on that amendment and then whether that if it succeeds then we would vote on
that motion if it fails then we would vote on the original motion Commissioner
McDuff see you're on the board I would have accepted an amendment to my motion
to include both of those items okay for modification understood
Commissioner Dyer I guess I'm just a little concerned that we've got
individuals that came here and feel like this was the first time that they really
heard about it and I understand of those that participated the percentages were
high but when you only have 16% of your community I mean I know you're not gonna
get everybody and you may not even get half the community but to me 16% seems
so low and I know that even when this has been in front of our Commission last
year and we started talking about some of these responses and everything I know
I made the concern about the communication and getting the word out
and utilizing I mean we probably had close to 30 people in here and a lot of
the individuals did not even so you know even I apologize I can't remember your
name but the nice lady that was on the you know on the committee she didn't
even understand some of the stuff so I'm wondering if city staff should do one
more public meeting just one where they can hear more concerns because now you
got 30 people that they probably have a bigger understanding of being in this
presentation and if a presentation can be made to the community make it at the
church or at you know the nearest nearby school or something where you're going
through the whole presentation in front of the community that this is what we
proposed this is what it used to be this is what we're proposing to make the
changes what do you all feel about that how do you all think and so I I mean I
don't know that I can make a motion but if I could make a motion my motion would
be let's pause this and let's instruct city staff to have one more community
meeting to share that just so that city staff that the community feels like
their voice was heard that maybe more than 16% because I have a feeling that
the 30 people were here are going to tell their neighbors you've got to get
yourself there you've got to know and maybe that's one little thing that will
help bridge and build back the little building blocks of trust so that the
community feels that they are heard like that's that's what I would like to do
and I would second yes I just wanted to throw out there while I feel like we
have done far more in engagement than it I mean my whole staff went door-to-door
putting out flyers in Southeast Denton twice during this process so I do
apologize if some people didn't find out but we have far exceeded public
engagement I would propose rather than pausing and coming back to P&D that
perhaps you give us the opportunity to do we can make one more attempt and host
a meeting prior to City Council but rather than putting the whole effort on
pause I would suggest maybe we we do one more meeting between now and City
Council and we can take that feedback to council and I under and I understand
that and I recognize 18 months oh I mean a lot of work and I totally 100% get
that but if you're hearing from the community that there was a lack of trust
that might be why you didn't have some of the response because they weren't sure
what the motivations in that were and so I'm just I would again just point out
the history of the area plan I mean we went so far as to have our consultant do
their own engagement without staff to avoid that perception of mistrust so we
please trust us when we say we've gone above and beyond and done more
engagement than has ever been done for a city project and please know I'm not I'm
not saying that you haven't gone above and beyond I 100% know that y'all have I
like to call the question please we have a motion on the floor in a second we
have a motion and a second just to yeah yeah so so to be clear the the motion to
continue is a superior motion and we have a second I believe still from
Commissioner McDade is that correct I withdrew my second to the original
motion right were you intending to second Commissioner Dyer's motion to
continue okay so that's what we have on the floor I'll say I believe I'm the
only one here on the board who's been here through this whole process I have
never seen a planning project either in the city of Denton or read about
something outside of the city of Denton that has gotten as high as a 16%
response rate I understand we all want a hundred percent but just just for
clarification staff has moved mountains I think staff's proposal that they go
through especially with the people that are here tonight and their neighbors and
and have one more informational moving informational meeting to sort of make it
very clear what the proposal is preserves that opportunity for feedback
and still preserves the opportunity for council to hear that and take that into
their considerations I'm concerned that postponing again is going to going to
not necessarily create a whole lot more feedback because what it's possible that
that would delay the process and then the people who have come here tonight
won't hear about that next meeting and it just seems clearer to me to keep
going but to but to make sure that there's one more opportunity to to fully
explain what the proposal is so I won't be supporting the motion to continue but
as I understand it the motion is to continue to an event certain of the of
staff holding another meeting and then bringing this proposal back to the
planning and zoning Commission is that correct Commissioner Dyer well do we
have I mean Robert's Rules of Order Commissioner Macduff made a motion but
nobody's second the second was withdrawn you've made a motion but
nobody's second it so are those two motions kind of dead they are okay so
then yes I would like to make a motion to pause and have city staff go for one
last public community presentation so that more of the community feels like
they are have been informed and they can give any final feedback so that way if
there's any last changes then when they come in front of planning and zoning it's
a good solid plan I mean I know we're not gonna have hundred percent I'm not
asking for a hundred percent just hoping that more than sixteen percent would
come and that everybody you know people at the next public hearing people feel
that you know they were informed and not feel like this was the first time they
knew about it or that they didn't that they've known about it but just didn't
have a clear understanding okay thank you and Commissioner Ketcher said I
second the motion to table this okay I think we had a previous seconder but I
appreciate that because I just wanted clarity on the motion like I said I
won't be supporting this not because I don't believe in public engagement but
because I believe we would have to double our tax rate in order to have
enough money to to far exceed the 16% because we've we've done a lot with that
said that's that's the motion and staff have any more Charlie yeah just a couple
more things to add as far as the 16 percent goes that's of the entire
population so our respondents like in a household for instance maybe we got a
single respondent that responded for the entire household so just provided some
additional context to that 16 percent since it's a population of the entire
area and then another thing that I wanted to add on this is we still have
the ability at City Council to have another round of engagement we would be
happy to go and meet with the community again and talk about it and this this
would also have another round of public hearing for PNC so it'd be the community
coming out to this again so it's just I want to be cognizant of that too you
know often we see is we have additional public hearings less people wanting to
come attend and provide input in those public hearings so just want to be
mindful and have the Commission consider that as well but this group would come
out another evening to have these conversations thank you
Commissioner McDade I live I work in the neighborhood I don't live in the
neighborhood however I was I'm able to receive some of the notices even being
there I only recall receiving one notification so I can understand that
some people did not get it here to see it I attended the meeting the community
meeting in framework part of course this is prior to my appointment on this
commission and I think that the staff did a great job I really did enjoy this
setup the community enjoyed that setup and I I believe you received a lot of
feedback at that time with this being a public hearing tonight with the actual
plan being here this is my first time seeing it so to speak to this is the
plan this is what we're trying to move forward this public hearing has informed
us that there are a few people who do have some modifications changes and
issues and questions about what's in the plan now I say yeah let's give staff if
they will please one more time and maybe we can get somebody pay for pizza again
give the community one more chance to see what the staff actually came up with
one more time and that's why I'm seconding the motion thank you for that
clarity yeah I think we're gonna vote on this very soon unless there's any other
comments only thing I'll add to that is that I
I'm sorry but the public hearing is closed it sounds like no matter what the
outcome is here there will be opportunities to work with staff as we
move forward but I'll just say I get it if if going back for another round is is
what the commission votes for I would expect certainly all those commissioners
who are voting to do that to make every possible effort to actually be at this
community meeting and see how much effort and time and what goes into these
things we are asking and as we ask staff to do things that the capacity is not
unlimited and so if this is the the priority of the Commission that's great
but it does mean that other things that we put on our matrix are going to be
delayed etc implementation of the southeast Denton area plan and the future
steps would be delayed because it would take organizing the meeting notifying
for the meeting making any changes then re noticing for the public hearings so
we're probably talking about three months before it gets to council if if
this is postponed as as the motion is ready is that fair okay that's that's
all did you have something no okay any other comments questions I don't see any
so I would call for a vote on the board this is a motion to postpone to an event
certain of staff holding an additional input meeting for for the residents of
the area and that item passes four to two so Julie just for the benefit of
here people here can you explain the outcome of this motion and what I know
we don't have any schedules yet but just so people understand so they can stay
informed sorry maybe Haley I'll take it so following this motion what I've heard
is we will do another round of community engagement in the form of a meeting so
that will look like another postcard or door hangers whatever method we can can
come up with to notify for that public engagement meeting and then there will
be another round of notices sent for a future P and Z public hearing as well as
a council public hearing so it was probably about a three month timeline on
that at least is there a reason why you can't utilize social media and put the
plan on and say hey we're having a meeting here it's that it's at this
location on this date so that way you're covering lots of different forms of
communication so if if we were to utilize the city social media channels
that would invite the entirety of the city of Denton and whoever else might
follow to that meeting whereas we are seeking a targeted audience for this so
if someone is aware of a social media platform that is exclusive to southeast
Denton and would like to to share that with us so that we can possibly put
something out that way we can but we would prefer not inviting the entirety of
Denton to weigh in on a matter that is not pertinent to the entirety of Denton
doesn't Sedna have their own but my staff has been at every step in this has
been I understand there's feelings here and I'll just I just wanted Hillary to
to explain what the process was our staff does an amazing job of figuring
out who the stakeholders are whether that's I don't know if any commissioners
here have been to the Southeast Denton neighborhood Association meeting every
time I've gone which is at least half a dozen times in the last three years
staff have been there there are many other neighborhood associations in the
city where that is not true so our staff take this area seriously okay and and as
I think it was former Commissioner McDade said there's a concern that yes
we want trust even a simple thing as the plan when we adopted it saying
rebuilding trust instead of building trust can be interpreted as an affront
so I just want people to understand but I understand we'll we'll go for another
round but but nobody nobody said that we didn't have faith in the city staff or
that we didn't think they were working hard we just we were just hearing the
comments from the community and felt like you know maybe there's just an
opportunity to have a final presentation and basically give the same presentation
that they gave to us sure and and just and show it to the community so that way
there's just a deeper understanding that was all I mean I know that I know the
city staff works hard and and so I'm not I'm not trying to imply when I made that
motion that they don't understood and sorry if I was implying the counter to
that I was mostly responding to the the suggestion of reaching out to the
churches yes those are all good ideas these are things I'm sure that the staff
has already done in previous rounds and I'm sure they will do this I think they
are taking the the will of this body with a lot of weight tonight because it's
no small thing to to delay this for for doing this again they will take that
seriously and and that's their job to implement the will of the body so I look
forward to seeing what we can do and I will make an effort to be there as well
any other questions about the process before I move on okay that's that and
and just for public awareness if there's any confusion or questions that you have
about when this is all gonna happen how to make sure you're notified all that
kind of stuff we've got staff still here they they love the city more than they
love their family so you're gonna you're gonna have time to ask them and make
sure you get on a mailing list or something some method to make sure you
hear about the future changes or or events with this plan with that we will
move to item 6a the planning and zoning Commission matrix yes so I have a
couple of items for you all first Kathy has asked me to request that everyone
bring the iPads that have been issued to them to our April 28th meeting she will
be collecting those and if you would like a new iPad those will be made
available at the May 13th meeting if you do not want a new iPad you can also let
her know that and she will not bring one for you at the April 28th meeting yeah
yeah and the tech services will be working on a new set of iPads for you
all that we'll have at that first May meeting for everyone to get at that time
and that's the next scheduled meeting three weeks for tonight yes correct and
then in terms of recent council actions just to keep you all apprised of we did
have a annexation for approximately one acre of land off of Swisher Road that
had an expired non annexation agreement that was recently approved that will get
that placeholder zoning and then if and when that property owner wishes to do
anything you'll see that come before you all for zoning and then just last night
we did have two non annexation agreements that were extended to 2040
for a couple of properties on Mills Road as well as the zoning change that you
all saw it's been a few weeks at this point that was a rural residential to
general office off of Barthold Road that was approved by council last night and I
believe we'll be marking one item off the matrix with tonight's work session
as well as the memo that was circulated to you all earlier this week from our
transportation services team so happy to add anything else to the matrix you
might like but we will make those two updates any additions to the matrix from
the Commission I don't see any and concluding items item 7 any concluding
items from the Commission not seeing anyway any at this time we'll thank the
public for coming and like I said we all value your input look forward to where
this is going to go and at 9 23 p.m. I will without objection call this meeting
to a close.