1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,900 afternoon on this Wednesday April 8th 2026 at 5 o 2 p.m. I will call this work 2 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:13,000 session of the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission to an order with 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:19,980 the quorum present. First item of business is comments on the consent 4 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:31,740 agenda from the public. I don't see any the next item of business is clarification 5 00:00:31,740 --> 00:00:38,280 for items on the agenda. Any questions on the consent agenda from the 6 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:45,400 Commission? Yeah Commissioner McTuffin. Yes I have one question please. On the 7 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:51,880 Triangle Engineering proposal of Jayombe Denton on the first one it says it's 8 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:59,080 going to be platted for a hotel. Do we have any idea about with a hotel chain? 9 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:11,080 It is a Live Smart by Hilton. Live Smart. I was getting my points ready. Thank you. 10 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:23,900 All right. That brings us to our items for individual consideration. There are 11 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:32,380 three items that have been pulled and all three I believe are recommended 12 00:01:32,380 --> 00:01:37,660 approval now. Is that correct? I'm sorry two items the other one was the yeah so 13 00:01:37,660 --> 00:01:59,080 that's fp26008 which is 2h and fp26006 which is 2b. So 2f and 2b are now 14 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:10,000 recommended approval. Any questions on those two? Okay we've got a lot of the 15 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,360 rest of the individual consideration items so instead of having the parade of 16 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:19,160 people saying that we recommend that these be postponed. I believe all 17 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,600 of them are recommended postponed to the next meeting date. Can staff just confirm 18 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,640 that other than those two that I called out? Is that right? Okay we'll give 19 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:32,480 everybody eight more minutes of dinnertime if that's okay. 20 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:40,520 Excuse me. Yes Commissioner McDuff. Chair, sorry if I may back us up. Please. Just for a 21 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:47,000 minute I had a question on the consent agenda if I may. Yeah. I am just looking 22 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:54,640 at that on the cover on the agenda caption it says phase five and then I go 23 00:02:54,640 --> 00:03:01,720 into the information sheet and it says third phase. Okay yeah I think that's on 24 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:09,780 the Hickory Grove. Devco, Hickory Grove. It's Ms. Hines. I'm just wondering if it's a 25 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:12,080 batch. 26 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:21,520 Mia Hines senior planner that item is for Hickory Grove phase five. You said the 27 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:28,160 third phase is where? It's on the first page of the agenda information sheet and 28 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,560 it says this in the background the last sentence this proposed final plan is for 29 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,000 the third phase of this development. That is that is an error. My apologies. This is 30 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,280 supposed to be for phase five. Okay and I believe it appears in the other in the 31 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:48,440 individual consideration item two. Okay. And except it's for phase six. Oh for 32 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:53,440 correction yeah this the item item 3B on the consent agenda is for phase five of 33 00:03:53,440 --> 00:04:05,680 Hickory Grove and then item 4D at P26-0003 is for phase six of Hickory 34 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:11,680 Grove. Okay and that same Ms. Hines that same I don't want to say error I've done 35 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:19,760 this batching before it says third phase as well. So Hickory Grove okay yeah those 36 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,480 are the two corrections on that those are in error my apologies. Okay no no 37 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:45,240 worries thank you. Okay thank you Chair Pruitt. Certainly. Any other questions on 38 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,920 the items to be continued for the next meeting in the individual consideration. 39 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,520 Commissioner Dyer. So we're not going to have any discussion on any of these 40 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:00,200 items. We we certainly can it's just there's I know we have we have a heavy 41 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,680 agenda tonight. Yeah yeah. But I do I do have some questions on item number and 42 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:14,840 under individual consideration FP 26-0013 the equity engineering all of the 43 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:28,440 apartments. Sure. Okay hi so just kind of looking at this information and looking 44 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:36,760 at the background let me get back to that item on my screen. When you look at 45 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:44,960 was it staff analysis in exhibit two. No it was not that one it was the exhibit 46 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:55,000 one the agenda information sheet. You have in there the timeline that this 47 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:03,720 started back in 2002 but then 2019 City Council did a zoning transition October 48 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:10,320 11th 2023 it came in front of P&Z for a special use permit and then it went to 49 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:17,240 City Council for the same thing and everything got approved and then in 2025 50 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:24,480 the an extension for an approval period for the specific use permit did the 51 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:31,920 owner of the land did they that owns it now to do all this development were they 52 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:39,560 also the owners back in 2019 when they asked for the zoning change. So the 2019 53 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,960 zoning transition you'll see in several of our staff and or this would be on the 54 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,080 AIS is sort of one of those it's almost a standing point and what that is is this 55 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,040 reflective of the adoption of the 2019 debt and development code at which point 56 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,360 our zoning districts transitioned from the 02 code to the 19 and so that's 57 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,000 that's reflective of what it did transition to at that time I don't I 58 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,200 don't know off the top of my head if the owner owned it in 2019 but they didn't 59 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,760 request the zoning change of that that was a city request that was this that 60 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,480 was the zoning transition that occurred with the adoption of the 2019 DDC they 61 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:24,640 then in in 23 did submit for that SUP our SUPs are valid for a period of two 62 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,000 years unless you're substantially underway and that includes approval of 63 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,920 the final plots and CEPs due to financials and things like that they did 64 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,960 request that additional one-year extension the final plot does conform 65 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,080 with the SUP generally there are minor comments that need to be addressed which 66 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,560 is the reason for the plot extension tonight okay I guess I just have you know 67 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,200 I know we've talked a lot about apartments and I guess I just have a lot 68 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:55,600 of concerns because looking at this area there are just so many apartment 69 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,760 developments over there and to me this would be a great opportunity to take 70 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:09,480 this land and build different types of housing zero lot lines your townhouses 71 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:16,040 small single-family homes that are on smaller lots that might be at a similar 72 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:22,760 monthly purchase rate that maybe a rental would be at because I have been 73 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:29,240 doing some research it just shows that when you have homeowners you know 74 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,640 property owners it tends to provide a more stable ability and I know because 75 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,000 this is being recommended to be denied which is probably you know we'll 76 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,360 probably vote on that I'm sure we don't want to have a lot of discussion but I 77 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,360 guess maybe to give you guys a heads up or you know when talking to the 78 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:55,080 developer and that's why I wanted to relook at the stats that you had sent 79 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:03,160 off back in January of your what we're seeing in single-family and townhome and 80 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,800 I don't know what the percentage is because I couldn't you know I was trying 81 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,760 to quickly find it but I'm seeing here in my research that really because you 82 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,600 do it's not that we don't want or need to have any apartments they definitely 83 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:22,400 benefit the community and benefit citizens in a great way but I just 84 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:31,840 wonder what our ratio mix of homeowners to rentals what that ratio is and it 85 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:38,000 basically talked about that in a city if you build too many apartments and you 86 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,320 don't have that ratio you really want to have 60 to 75 percent owner occupied 87 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:48,400 housing and anywhere from 25 to 40 percent rental housing and then if you 88 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,160 exceed that 40 percent mark you can experience slower property value growth 89 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,800 higher infrastructure demand which is you know what's what we're seeing like 90 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,820 we're dealing with that right now greater budget pressure increased 91 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:06,880 political tension reduced long-term stability like there's all these 92 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,880 negative things so I'm just concerned and I know this is one of the things 93 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,480 I've asked for and I don't know we've had other than the report I don't know 94 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:23,440 that we've had a really in-depth dive but how many apartment units are in the 95 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:28,080 process of being under construction and how many are in the hopper to be built 96 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,800 because in landmark in that whole development I know that there are 97 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,360 supposed to be mixed use of apartments and rentals both in the commercial space 98 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:46,560 on the east side of 35 and also on the west side I'm sorry on the east and the 99 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,800 west side and everything with Quaver Ranch so I'm just kind of curious so 100 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,640 sorry I know I know I'm on a tangent I'm sure I know Hillary probably doesn't want 101 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:00,440 me to go on this but it's it is a bit it is just a big concern sure every time 102 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:07,100 apartments come up yes and just to remind us about Platts they do have the 103 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:13,660 approvals for the multifamily per the SUP the the plat is the legal subdivision 104 00:11:13,660 --> 00:11:17,640 of land and they are meeting those requirements largely apart from the 105 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:23,200 exceptions noted in exhibit 2 so again they went through the channels and they 106 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,400 do have their approvals for that I do think these numbers have been accounted 107 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,840 for in some of the multifamily units we know that are coming online and some of 108 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,200 the data that has been circulated we can look into that but as far as the plat 109 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,760 goes this is zoned SC and it generally conforms to the lot dimensions and 110 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,860 requirements for SC they do have some things to clean up but it is a plat at 111 00:11:43,860 --> 00:11:49,840 the end of the item so maybe this is where I need to be educated and I don't 112 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:55,840 know if it's in a setting like this or if it's in with you know one-on-one that 113 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,080 at what point because yes I understand if it's a plat and it meets everything 114 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,400 legally we have to approve it but at what point do does the city and does 115 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,880 planning and zoning and a city council you know kind of say okay hold on enough 116 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:16,320 on apartments let's let everything that we have sift out because what if we are 117 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,560 to the point where we're building too many so I don't know where that comes 118 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:24,320 into play so I think that comes into play as we update our plans and we 119 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:36,120 consider zoning change requests because the there's no zoning tool to to pull 120 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:43,280 strings in the market such that you you can no longer do this full stop right we 121 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,320 set the requirements for applicants we set the places where certain land uses 122 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,400 can occur based on the zoning and then we have a market system for developing 123 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:59,640 homes and businesses but according to zoning multifamily could be duplexes 124 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,040 triplexes and apartments so if you're trying to get more duplexes yeah and you 125 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:11,000 do that it kind of comes with the apartment so that's that's not yeah 126 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:16,600 there's separate land uses allowed in a separate group of zoning districts I 127 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:25,400 guess my point is just that our function as I understand it to to envision the 128 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:33,920 future of Denton and that mix of uses comes in when we revise our plans and 129 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:39,360 then when we approve zoning changes to be accordance to those plans not at the 130 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:46,200 platting stage is that yes so as a commission on a grander scale you know 131 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,640 that opportunity will come before you all when the city does things like city 132 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,800 wide code updates like we did in 2019 where there's subsequent zoning changes 133 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,360 that go along with that or when we update our comprehensive plan and 134 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,760 reimagine what the future land use map you know how that might need to change 135 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,400 in certain areas but as part of your day-to-day function the only 136 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,560 opportunity that you all would have for that is to weigh in on an individual 137 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,320 request for a zoning change or a specific use permit okay by the time 138 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:17,320 something reaches platting that that ship is sailed they have the land use 139 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,800 approvals that they have and can build any use that's permitted by right in 140 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,840 that district the plat is strictly the subdivision of the property as Angie 141 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,680 mentioned and it is largely a ministerial function for the board okay 142 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,040 and and I think our development community depends on that certainty where 143 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,960 they understand the things that are uncertain and they understand the things 144 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:43,080 that are certain as we heard a few weeks ago about the state updates last time 145 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:49,520 the several of the provisions now are in place because other communities did 146 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,320 things like stick plats in the pocket for almost two years without taking action 147 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,840 on them just because they didn't like the land use and and that is when the 148 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,880 state stepped in to say you can't do that so is that my understanding 149 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,040 consistent with yours the shot clock bill and the reason you see so many 150 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,000 extensions as for the reasons you described yes thank you okay but I think 151 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:18,720 you had is that all on this item or you may have had some other individual 152 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,920 consideration items you wanted to see no that was that was really it on this on 153 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:28,480 this side okay and again I'm not trying to skip anything I just I just don't want 154 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:38,700 to shortchange the work sessions no I know it's just yeah yeah okay and and 155 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:45,000 I'll just remind you know if there is something legitimate for a you know code 156 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,880 reason within the DDC that you find to have issue with a plat then that's a 157 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:57,160 valid circumstance staff would request that you state what that specific reason 158 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:03,160 is yeah so that they can trace back because for for future reasons they 159 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,480 would need to refer back to that Commissioner McDuff is a quick comment I 160 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,040 did have another comment on individual consideration on the quiddity 161 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,480 engineering in miss Angie's already sat down just a quick one but I will comment 162 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:25,040 that commissioners dyers concern it will not go away for the record 163 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:31,720 miss Angie we I have a question here on my just a quick question I believe this 164 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,680 is for two lots of record and one is up for apartments the multifamily and one 165 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,120 is parkland could could you give us a little more information on the park land 166 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:48,880 sure so SUPs have a similar sort of negotiation opportunity that plan 167 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,760 developments have in which we're seeking that a use has been adequately mitigated 168 00:16:53,760 --> 00:17:00,720 in this case so as part of this the area that you see shaded is the largely lot 169 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,960 to some of this is on the the apartment tract but it'll remain as open space 170 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,760 they're currently it's codified in the SUP that's approved and adopted and the 171 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,640 applicant is working with parks as well to bring forward a development agreement 172 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:22,120 that will dedicate that lower the second lot for future parkland for the 173 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:25,400 extension of the pecan Creek trail so that will remain open space in 174 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,240 perpetuity per the SUP the plot will not be approved until that is done that's 175 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,520 one of the reasons it's on the agenda for an extension they need to work 176 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,680 through parks board and City Council just like the plot needs to work through you 177 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,200 all and City Council so that area that you see shaded is for future parkland 178 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:51,040 it's codified in the SUP it'll remain that way all right thank you Angie 179 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:56,960 anything else on the the items to be postponed in the individual 180 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:08,120 consideration section okay thank you that brings us to sorry yes since we 181 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:19,040 don't see the subdivision variances so often it's 4 ev 26 - 5 Matt if you 182 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:25,440 wouldn't mind showing us that and reminding us what we do with these 183 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:45,320 yeah good evening Commission Mapo Dean assistant planner here presenting a 184 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:53,000 subdivision variance request V 26 - 0 5 so this subdivision variance is 185 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,600 associated with the replat that is on the agenda today and it's with a lot 186 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:06,200 that currently is both in the Sea of Denton and in the ETJ that's about a 187 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:12,520 little short of a mile north of loop 288 so the reply is seeking to divide this 188 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:18,600 property into two lots along city limits now the residential lot which is the one 189 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:26,320 on the the right in the ETJ only has access to a public road via an existing 190 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:31,560 private access easement now there is a provision in the code that no more than 191 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:37,600 three residential lots can take access to a public road via a private access 192 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:49,360 easement now in cases where that's where there is a hardship for a person being 193 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:57,280 able to subdivide they apply for this variance and so as part of the larger as 194 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,920 the larger presentation there are four criteria that need to be considered in 195 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:09,080 order to approve a subdivision variance I go over those as more in detail in the 196 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:15,560 in the presentation essentially staff is recommending approval of this variance 197 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:24,120 which would then allow the plat to be approved due to hardships related to the 198 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:30,080 particular layout of development in this area which has essentially led to this 199 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,240 situation where this lot needs this variance before you today as mentioned I 200 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:41,480 run to more detail in the as in the public meeting but can answer any 201 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:51,320 questions at this time questions I have one just so that we help everybody 202 00:20:51,320 --> 00:21:00,400 understand I believe if this were an RR zoned lot within the city of Denton then 203 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,800 our five acre minimum for platting would apply however because it's in the ETJ we 204 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,880 don't apply that minimum is that correct you do not apply that minimum to lots in 205 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:21,560 ETJ the zoning on the parshin that is in the city have a slide I believe it's our 206 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:27,800 four doesn't meet those criteria I'm sorry I was thinking this was further 207 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:34,840 north than it is it's it is pretty far north the city's there's a just a strip 208 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,680 along North Locust that's within city limits that goes pretty far up there got 209 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:48,000 it Commissioner McDuff did I see a question mark okay anything else I don't 210 00:21:48,000 --> 00:22:01,160 see any as thank you Matt okay that brings us to our first public hearing 211 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:09,960 item 5a HL 26 - 1 good evening chair commission Cameron Robertson historic 212 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:16,840 preservation officer oh it's right on the screen perfect and this is HL 26 0 0 1 a 213 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:23,280 this is a request for historic landmark designation at 1403 Ken Dove Drive it is 214 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,840 a Mount Miller home design circuit 1959 it doesn't meet approval criteria one 215 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,800 three four nine eleven and twelve which I'll go into more detail during the 216 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,320 public hearing portion it is zone residential three it is a rental 217 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,400 property as well it does mean our done 2040 comprehensive plan goal community 218 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,320 character to as well as our 2019 historic preservation plan goal number 219 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,440 one policy 1.3 which looks at prioritizing eligible properties and 220 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,280 areas for landmarking and historic districts so staff is recommending 221 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,120 approval as it complies with the criteria criteria for approval in our 222 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,920 section 2.9.4 B and does meet that dent in 2040 comprehensive plan as well as 223 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:19,280 our 2019 historic preservation plan yeah Commissioner McDuff I'm sorry 224 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,840 McDade I just had a question if something receives a historic landmark 225 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:30,000 designation does it become property tax exempt or anything like that they would 226 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:37,320 have to go through that process so that process for a tax exemption would be up 227 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,720 to 50% of their city property tax that would have to go in front of the 228 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,520 historic Landmark Commission as well as City Council but to be eligible just to 229 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,240 even apply for that application they had to have spent a minimum of ten thousand 230 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:57,400 dollars towards the improvement and maintenance of their property Commissioner 231 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:03,880 McDuff yes a comment I have a concern rather I have a concern that what this is 232 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:09,600 a designation for historic landmark and it is a short-term rental that seems 233 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:18,960 incongruous to me didn't seem to match so I have a concern for the integrity of 234 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:24,320 the property and the property camera correct me if I'm wrong I believe it is 235 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,920 a rental home I don't know that it's I don't believe it has a short-term rental 236 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,920 correct but regardless there there's nothing in the coder criteria that says 237 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,680 how a home has to be used necessarily it's the structure itself that would 238 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,840 receive the historic designation correct so it is currently a rental property it 239 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:52,880 is occupied by a UNT professor this the AIS says short-term rental it used to be 240 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,480 a short-term rental okay but it's a it's a rental property right currently yes 241 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:10,040 occupied by a UNT member commissioner day what are the benefits to a property 242 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,840 owner to get this designation so it would just be the one historic tax 243 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,320 exemption so currently at the local level we only offer one historic tax 244 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:27,280 assumption currently and it's that up to 50% of that city property tax otherwise 245 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,520 if it was an income producing they could look to go for state and federal 246 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:37,480 designation but that the city has no jurisdiction over so basically since this 247 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,540 is not their primary residence there's no home studying so there's there's no 248 00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:48,000 protection in the valuation when I'm Denton cat assesses them so they're 249 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,440 basically taxed a little bit higher than if it was their their main their main 250 00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,760 property so there would be a significant tax savings to the homeowners and 251 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:06,000 actually a loss of money to the city if they got this and applied for the tax 252 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,980 exemptions yes that is correct if they went for the tax exemptions there's no 253 00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:15,280 guarantee as that's a whole separate process separate from the actual 254 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:21,200 designation but that is to say yes there could be a potential loss staff has done 255 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:26,320 diligent research of that at the last two years and it currently the number 256 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,640 of properties that are getting receiving that tax exemption it's only about six 257 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:45,040 two thousand dollars that we're losing each year okay thank you okay just one 258 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:53,880 question for clarification because I heard something new to me when you said 259 00:26:53,880 --> 00:27:00,920 that the income producing tax credit I don't remember if it's a credit or an 260 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,920 exemption for commercial income producing properties that requires a 261 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,320 historical designation separate from this one yes it would have to be at the 262 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,000 state or federal level okay so at the local level this the only tax credit 263 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:24,080 that we have available is for what is essentially would be an owner occupied 264 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,040 home or a residence itself but not for income producing commercial property 265 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,440 like you see downtown okay and maybe I'm just not clear on the definitions but 266 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,720 does income producing property include a property that's leased out to a renter 267 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,000 they can yes okay but that like I said that's a whole different process they 268 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080 would have to go through a nomination process with the county sure to then go 269 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,440 for state and federal eligibility or designation and then they'd have to go 270 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,960 through a separate tax exemption process where they would also not be able to do 271 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,120 certain renovations and changes to the property okay understood any other 272 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:09,840 questions thank you that brings us to our second public hearing item 5b DCA 26 - 273 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:23,520 - good evening and just it's a lot of information on this I'm sure we will be 274 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:30,280 properly briefed I will say we received a few written letters of support in 275 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,280 opposition so once you get to the end or maybe it's already in the middle of it 276 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,880 if you could explain how many of those we've gotten over the whole period of 277 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,960 public engagement and kind of what staff's view is on that and if we have 278 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,640 any idea what the issues are at that level we may not know but I will try to 279 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,520 address that if I don't let me know we're good thank you for this work 280 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,360 session I just have a really brief overview we'll be happy to answer any 281 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,840 questions our our presentation for the for the regular session I think is 43 282 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,440 slides so we won't we won't do that to you on work session but I do and I 283 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,280 promise we'll be quick at regular session but I do want to just talk 284 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:20,440 briefly about what we're doing tonight so really excited as you may know we 285 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:26,920 adopted the southeast in an area plan in July of 2024 as part of that area plan 286 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,920 we did a tremendous amount of public engagement and we listened to the 287 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,200 community and the concerns of the community and and some of the things 288 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,640 that the community really indicated was that they wanted to protect their their 289 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,800 neighborhoods and they also wanted to provide things that could strengthen 290 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,680 their neighborhoods to provide to provide opportunities for the for the 291 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,640 community members so we have three overlays that were recommended as action 292 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,120 items in the area plan these were a pretty big priority of the plan they 293 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,840 were short-term action items and so they so we wanted to get on them as quickly 294 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:10,800 as possible so the proposal tonight before you is is to amend the didn't 295 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,680 development code sub chapter 4 to add three new overlay districts within the 296 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:21,600 southeast Denton overlay area the first one is the height overlay district and 297 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,120 that one is the area in blue community members indicated to us that they were 298 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,840 concerned about downtown style development encroaching into southeast 299 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,560 end the height overlay district is intended to provide a more gentle 300 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:42,560 transition for that area between the DCTA facility the transit station and 301 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,840 then those those residential more residential neighborhoods so the height 302 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,400 overlay is intended to just keep the heights a little lower provide a better 303 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,960 transition the live work overlay I don't have a whole lot of detail if you have 304 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,120 specific questions I'm going to bring me up on that one but that is intended to 305 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,320 to really do two things protect residential homes while reintroducing a 306 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,120 variety of small businesses in an area that was historically had some businesses 307 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,240 throughout the area planning process we heard that Prairie was was a main 308 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,560 street for southeast end for a very long time and and that's kind of the zoning 309 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,680 doesn't really allow those types of uses right now so in order to can bring back 310 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:32,240 that that type of use that live work district is is proposed once again with 311 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,400 items that are with protections for the surrounding residential neighborhoods 312 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:44,240 because we want to make sure that that they they mesh together well and then 313 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,360 finally the residential overlay district this is this is proposed to really 314 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:56,400 maintain the scale and character of existing residential areas the southeast 315 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:02,760 end developed over many decades starting in the 20s all the way up to even homes 316 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,880 are being built there now and so we want to make sure that anything that is built 317 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:14,720 in there is reflective of the special character and and and the look and feel 318 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,880 of southeastern so the the proposed regulations within that that residential 319 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,680 overlay district aren't you spaced they really are design based so that was all 320 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880 I was going to talk about for the work session I'll be happy to go through any 321 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:33,440 oh engagement sorry I looked at you and then I remembered I we have a we do have 322 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,720 a slide on public engagement we have listed out all the things we did we had 323 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,320 a we had 40 engagement opportunities when we prepared the southeastern area 324 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:50,160 plan we estimate that we had about 529 people participate with the area 325 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,960 planning effort which is about 16% of the residents in southeastern we heard 326 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,080 from the community and that's and what their concerns were and and that's how 327 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,280 we got to those action items that we're moving forward with tonight but we 328 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,800 wanted to validate make sure we had all of that information correct so we went 329 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,240 back to the community in March of 2025 for a block party to really ask some 330 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,120 more deep dive questions about what these overlays would eventually look like 331 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:23,720 took that information went back start writing started writing up the the 332 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,720 regulations we took those back to the community for Juneteenth last year we 333 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,680 also held neighborhood or community workshops last fall for both property 334 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:40,680 owners and for non on owner occupied properties we've gone to Sedna we go 335 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,800 pretty much every month to talk to them and say are we on the right track is is 336 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,760 this what the community is looking to see we put out boards and flyers at MLK 337 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,400 and American Legion and then also of course we've had a lot of phone calls 338 00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:03,920 and emails with community members as far as specific concerns it probably would 339 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,860 be specific to each overlay and we could certainly talk through those at the work 340 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:14,680 session if would you want to talk through those really quick I'm happy 341 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:20,960 either way yes I'm seeing nodding heads all right okay so in terms of what we 342 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,400 really got a lot of information it was at the block party last year that's 343 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,920 where we really had a pile of questions and we asked the community what do you 344 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:38,680 what do you think we had boards stickers all those think Mia had jars where 345 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,160 people could put a marble in it so we tried to do some fun things with the 346 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,760 community but in terms of the the residential overlay prior to the block 347 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,080 party we went with the planning staff did a windshield survey of Southeast 348 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,400 Denton and drove through the community and looked at common characteristics of 349 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:04,000 properties things like what how many stories do they have a front porch do 350 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:10,920 they what kind of garage setup do they have what is the kind of architectural 351 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:17,120 theme that the that that emerges from the different the different parts of 352 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,040 Southeast Denton we took all of that information and then we created this 353 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,680 list things like hey do you think that a front entry garage fits within 354 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:31,640 southeastern ask the community members and and they responded to those or do 355 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,720 you do you want to encourage front porches or stoops and the community gave 356 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:40,840 us feedback on that so based upon the feedback that we got from that that's 357 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:48,380 what that's what we went forward with we did we did go we made some other or 358 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:56,160 provided some other questions you know asking do you want something like narrower 359 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:02,800 lots or or shallower lots would you want would you want to be able to subdivide 360 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,760 lots so that each side of a duplex could be on its own lot so we asked some kind 361 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,720 of other questions too we heard from the community on those types of things that 362 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,040 that wasn't what they were interested in so that that's why we are really just 363 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,040 coming forward with the things that we heard from the community that they were 364 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:23,200 interested in in terms of opposition not not many of them gave the reasoning 365 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,620 we've had a lot of calls because this is kind of complicated and so we we did 366 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:34,240 talk to the property owner or did talk to those who called into us kind of 367 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:39,700 gave them just a description in more plain language also provided the the 368 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:43,400 little cheat sheet that we've put on your desk we've emailed that out to a 369 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,800 lot of people we also had to translate it in Spanish in case a in case a 370 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:54,800 community member spoke preferred to speak Spanish so when we talk to people 371 00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:00,800 you know they seem to be like oh okay they understood it it just I think there 372 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,360 was some confusion about oh what is this because it is a it's a pretty it's a 373 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:13,780 pretty big deal in terms of specific for the live work I will have Mia come up 374 00:37:13,780 --> 00:37:25,880 because I do not know that so Mia hunn senior planner just in terms of general 375 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:31,040 community feedback that we got from the live work component the first time 376 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,840 around or with doing the area in adopting the area plan we talked with our with the 377 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,840 community in general that's when Julie heard or what Julie mentioned we got the 378 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,440 feedback on the historic district or a historic business district of southeast 379 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,160 end in the area along East Prairie the community wanting to see that restored 380 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,240 but we also had some conversations subsequent conversations and 381 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:57,640 implementation with trying to figure out specifically what non-residential uses 382 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:03,040 what community-based uses they wanted to see throughout the community and in 383 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:09,800 terms of the the specific feedback that we got from that share one of these 384 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:20,320 slides here and we presented some of this information the last time we we 385 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,880 brought a work session item before this body since then we did relaunch an 386 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,840 online survey asking similar questions about the uses that the community felt 387 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,640 were appropriate so these numbers are slightly different from what we 388 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,360 presented at first but essentially this is what we got back in return and that 389 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,640 the community overwhelmingly or the respondents who participated 390 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,320 overwhelmingly had support for general retail like small-scale retail 391 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,840 restaurant service sit-down restaurants not drive-through restaurants personal 392 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,960 service so that's your barber shops nail salons things like that daycare was a 393 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,760 really big one childcare facilities wanting that to be permitted in the 394 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,560 area mobile full court was a little iffy just because some people wanted the 395 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,840 opportunity to be able to have those types of things but understanding that 396 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,200 typically with those are outdoor gatherings that comes with noise and 397 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,360 more traffic in the area so we're wanting we have that proposed as a 398 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:16,760 specific use permit option to really add that extra layer of check with the 399 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,000 community as well as you know the Commission and the City Council and then 400 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,360 other ones include business and trade school at 79% of acceptable professional 401 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:33,400 office at 74 and then self-service laundry at 77 percent of the area and I 402 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,200 think the big thing to note about the live work overlay is that you'll look you 403 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,520 look at the action and the way that it's written from the southeastern area plan 404 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:45,280 and it does specifically mention that the the goal of this action is to allow 405 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:51,560 for basically a vertical mix of a residential unit use and a non-residential 406 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,200 use within the same structure what we're actually proposing is to allow for 407 00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:01,520 standalone non-residential businesses to be operating on East Prairie Street and 408 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,840 this is just a response to the community and the uses that they wanted to see 409 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,400 there and and some of the the challenges that we have come to know that are 410 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,820 associated with trying to mesh and have both the residential and the 411 00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:21,280 non-residential use and the same structure there's more believe it or 412 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:26,780 not that we can go over within the work session but happy to answer any questions 413 00:40:26,780 --> 00:40:36,000 that you only have any questions yeah Commissioner McDuff I have not have you 414 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,480 did you receive any negative or opposition to the plan in the proposal 415 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:47,120 because I haven't heard any we did not know not necessarily we've heard 416 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,560 concerns just in general about the implementation that's why we've 417 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,440 implemented some of the like the buffering requirement between a 418 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,080 non-residential use and a residential use people in general talk about you 419 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,920 know things that are associated with bringing businesses into an area more 420 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,480 parking others other things of that nature and so some of the things that we 421 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,200 implemented like the limited hours of operation our response to you to that as 422 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,320 well as like Julie mentioned the ensuring the that the character the 423 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,160 architectural character of the area stays the same so that way if someone is 424 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,960 interested in constructing a completely new building and implementing one of 425 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,240 these small uses it still looks like it fits in with the with the area so I 426 00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,880 think we have heard some concerns nothing in total opposition 427 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,680 unnecessarily towards the live work area and then even with those concerns we 428 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,840 try to work them in with the operational standards and things that we are 429 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:53,960 proposing thank you very much anything I just want to say thank you to staff for 430 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,760 looking into the live work or code it's called work live it just depends well 431 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:05,920 you're looking at our zoning code or the building code or who knows but you know I 432 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,680 think this is a good first step to to start essentially making sure that our 433 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:18,280 zoning code economically allows them to happen in order to not get in the weeds 434 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:23,720 and confuse public members I'll say this here instead of in the the session 435 00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:35,080 tonight but I do believe that allowing these while the AIS spoke to the fact 436 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:40,240 that we haven't seen any applications yet and they typically have higher 437 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:46,240 building code standards and that's this sort of thing if they are five thousand 438 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:52,000 square feet or less then or three thousand excuse me per the building code 439 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:58,040 they're allowed to use the IRC to build them which is a heck of a lot cheaper 440 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,760 the only stipulation is that they have to have a 13 D sprinkler system which is a 441 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,600 whole lot cheaper than the sprinkler system you put in a commercial building 442 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:13,000 so I just want to put that out there yeah for future consideration my my other 443 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:18,740 concern other than hey let's let's make sure these things that our code says we 444 00:43:18,740 --> 00:43:26,480 want are viable options in other places is that since we define them as it must 445 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,920 be greater than 50 percent commercial I'm concerned that our existing code 446 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:36,000 would have an applicant come in and say I'm gonna build a seven thousand 447 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,400 square foot commercial building on this one acre lot with a 400 square foot 448 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:45,600 apartment and there's nothing you can do to stop me so yeah what this sort of 449 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,400 also is playing because we did look into that after the last conversation that we 450 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,640 had and we confirmed that yes basically our code is the kind of the opposite or 451 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,760 the automate automatically kicks you into the IBC because it requires the no 452 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,800 more than 50% be residential instead of non-residential this I think with the 453 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:08,200 with the you specific standards that we're proposing for the work live on in 454 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,200 this overlay it is kind of a soft launch to reversing that to see and if that 455 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,880 works better as a land use option within this overlay district and then 456 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,940 potentially we could consider a code update related to the just the use 457 00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:25,800 across the city as well okay yeah I just want to thank you all for looking into 458 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,240 that I know it it takes time away from urgent things to dive into the weeds and 459 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:36,600 I appreciate it anything else Commissioner McDev thank you just a 460 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,480 question had did any of the property owners in these areas or is there any 461 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,960 request for any type of historic designations for any of the properties 462 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:57,000 there not that I know of I look to Julie she looks like make that is a great 463 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:02,040 question with as part of the area plan historic preservation was one of the 464 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:08,120 action items both in trying to find if the community would like historic 465 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,920 districts or protection but also education about the value of historic 466 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,760 preservation the city applied for a grant from the National Park Service to 467 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,440 conduct a historic resource survey in Southeast Denton it was awarded we they 468 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:30,440 would the money was was sent was funded and we are in the RFQ process so we hope 469 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:36,600 to be to start the historic resource survey in late summer early fall to find 470 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:42,440 those properties that would potentially be interested in preserving are there 471 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,840 some designations currently because I was thinking some of the churches had 472 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,800 that historic designation now I'm gonna bring camera 473 00:45:53,160 --> 00:46:01,480 sorry yeah hi Karen Robertson historic preservation officer so a lot of the 474 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,520 properties in the southeast end neighborhood have subject markers but 475 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,760 they're not actually designated themselves so they have the recognition 476 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,960 from the state but they don't have that additional layer of protection with the 477 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:31,120 destination was that a no no 478 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:38,520 Commissioner McDuff yes I would just say I agree with Chair Pruitt on thank you 479 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:44,080 to the staff I had a note for that this is a lot of work by any measurement by 480 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:53,080 any means Julie and Mia in particular but also I'm glad that Commissioner 481 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,880 McDuffie has talked and brought some ideas forward some concepts and I hope 482 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:02,760 you'll do the same thing when we get in the public hearing I'm sure you will so 483 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:08,000 we can hear that there was some public comments and third thirdly there were 484 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,080 some some input that came in Chair Pruitt you were probably going to talk 485 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,880 about this some things that came in at 2 30 this afternoon I was watching my 486 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:24,280 voice record and these came into the into my email but just some concerns it 487 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:31,280 looked like same several from the same property owner but there was one in 488 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:36,880 particular that I'm interested in I'm going to read it if I may it's from 489 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:42,880 Leona Franklin and she says why I pose this request can't be in favor of where 490 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:48,240 I've lived for 57 years not knowing changes or what to expect planning and 491 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:55,720 zoning will move forward regardless so I just I wanted us to acknowledge that and 492 00:47:55,720 --> 00:48:00,560 sounds like you know a long time property owner sure and I hope some of 493 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:09,960 those who sent in the written notices will will be here tonight anything else 494 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:21,240 okay that brings us to our one work session this evening which is easy 495 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:29,920 something 26 - 55 have we really had 55 work session that must include Council's 496 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:43,200 numbering - yes sorry complete tangent I'm just surprised it's 55 because that's 497 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:57,480 usually the number within the year let's let me just ask you Angie about how long 498 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,240 do you think this would be because it could be three slides or it could be 38 499 00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:09,000 given the subject matter I don't know it's 22 okay some of them go quick but 500 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:16,120 I'll leave it up to you I think I probably talk for 15 minutes okay but why 501 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,360 don't could be faster yeah why don't we go ahead and take a short break to grab 502 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:25,240 dinner then if the Commission's okay with that and then we will enjoy 503 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:32,720 hopefully you'll get a chance after that to get some as well so at 551 we'll take 504 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:37,440 a eight-minute recess and be back at 559 505 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:46,080 and at 6 p.m. with a quorum present we'll reconvene for the work session report 506 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:52,240 PZ 26 - 55 thank you chair members of the Commission Angie Mangleris assistant 507 00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:57,560 planning director today we're gonna do a work session spurred by one of the 508 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,320 matrix items just about zoning following annexations we're gonna cover a couple 509 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,040 topics because they all kind of relate to one another but we're gonna talk 510 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,800 about annexation subsequent zoning after that and then we're gonna touch a little 511 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:14,100 bit on municipal utility districts as well so again we'll go through some key 512 00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:17,920 definitions we'll talk a little bit about state law annexation in the city 513 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,920 of Denton rezoning after annexation and municipal utility districts also known 514 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:29,520 as MUDS before we dive into annexation it's important to understand some of 515 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,640 the definitions of what we'll be talking about so annexation is the means by 516 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,840 which cities expand their boundaries the process of land transfer from one unit 517 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,920 of government to another cities can only annex land from our 518 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:47,360 extraterritorial jurisdiction or ETJ ETJ is the unincorporated area 519 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,400 contiguous to the corporate boundaries of a municipality the area or distance 520 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,000 of the ETJ depends on the municipalities population so the city of Denton is 521 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,000 greater than a hundred thousand people that means our ETJ extends five miles 522 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,000 out from our corporate boundaries our ETJ doesn't doesn't continue to get 523 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,440 bigger it's kind of set where it is today but it is good information to know 524 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,880 speaking of ETJ we have two types of ETJ we have ETJ division one which you see 525 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,840 in yellow on your screen and ETJ division two which is the pink areas that you see 526 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:25,080 in green are the city of Denton's corporate limits in ETJ division one we 527 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:30,840 do have some authority we predominantly platting so subdivision requirements in 528 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,540 ETJ division one do apply on occasion there may be CEPs associated with an ETJ 529 00:51:36,540 --> 00:51:41,560 division one project but predominantly you may see some plats and we'll note on 530 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,640 those that this is in the ETJ ETJ division two we really don't have much 531 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:51,640 to say we do have an interlocal agreement with Denton County development 532 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,780 and subdivision of land and ETJ division two largely follows the requirements of 533 00:51:55,780 --> 00:51:59,920 Denton County and any state law that they need to follow this little handy 534 00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:03,960 chart breaks it down even further this covers just some of the big topics we 535 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,080 talk about zoning subdivision regulations tree preservation and gas well 536 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,760 regulations so you can see in the city limits we we can regulate all of those 537 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:17,040 things in ETJ division one we can regulate subdivision so that's sub 538 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,000 chapter 8 in the Denton development code and in each year division 2 we really 539 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:32,060 don't touch any of it state annexation law is a very intense history to try 540 00:52:32,060 --> 00:52:35,640 and dive through tonight but some of the important takeaways are the state 541 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:40,440 legislature has gradually taken away city's abilities to annex over time this 542 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:47,000 this timeline kind of starts in 1963 and as we as we go through state really 543 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,000 limited how cities can annex requiring non annexation agreements for properties 544 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,280 that are used for ag wildlife or timberland it further got limited in 2019 545 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,200 and really limited the involuntary annexations that cities can do and then 546 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:08,920 recently in 2023 state law allows residents in the ETJ to submit a 547 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:14,880 petition to remove themselves from the city's ETJ so our ability to annex 548 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,600 especially involuntarily has really kind of been chipped away at session 549 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:24,800 over session and that's important to just understand this is a fun video it 550 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,040 shows how the city of Denton has changed over time so we're gonna it's about 30 551 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:35,600 seconds the area that you see in gray is the corporate limits and then the green 552 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:41,520 will be when we add new property so you can see for a while there was quite a 553 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,240 bit of annexation going on especially strip annexation along our major 554 00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:51,080 thoroughfares and the city continues to grow around its periphery we start 555 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:56,240 adding areas like ropes and ranch and then that was later followed by some of 556 00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:00,200 the hunter and coal properties and we see properties grow around the north 557 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,880 and then annexation after that has really been some of those we call them 558 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:10,600 donor holes but those areas in sort of like little holes around the city limits 559 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:17,960 it's the same video today we we have what we call non annexation agreements 560 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:23,280 and so state law did require for any property the city was interested in 561 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,040 annexing if it was used for agricultural wildlife or timber use the city had to 562 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,520 offer a non annexation agreement which was setting the terms under which the 563 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:37,160 city would would not annex your property the city extended these types of 564 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:42,280 agreements to owners in the ETJ between 2010 and 2016 we also extended it to 565 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,040 individuals who use their property for single-family only the initial 566 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:53,280 agreements expired in 2020 and we offered extensions until 2040 within the 567 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,120 NAA a development plan is stipulated it typically requires that lots can't be 568 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,920 subdivided smaller than five acres that it continues to be used for single 569 00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:07,080 family use if a property owner wishes to subdivide smaller or maybe wants to have 570 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:13,600 a different use on there at that point annexation is triggered the city also 571 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,980 has several restrictive covenants which operates similar to NAAs but they're 572 00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:21,840 actually a little bit more restrictive platting is the mechanism for which 573 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,680 annexation is required and so those are spelled out in the agreement that at any 574 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,720 time basically they want to develop they need to plot they need to annex into the 575 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:35,960 city annexation procedures annexations take a little bit of time to get through 576 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,200 there are procedures spelled out in the Texas local government code chapter 43 577 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:45,240 and then the city of Den both in the city charter and in subchapter 2 outline 578 00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:50,880 several steps state law requires that we allow for the continuation of use so if 579 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,760 you're using your property in one way and we annex you we have to allow that 580 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:58,920 content to continue state law also authorizes or requires that we agree to 581 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:04,680 provide services it sets a minimum width for the land area that can be annexed it 582 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,720 requires continuity of city boundaries so you can't leapfrog and there's a 583 00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:13,520 maximum amount of 10% of the municipalities total land area that could 584 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:18,840 be annexed in a given calendar year what that looks like when it when it comes 585 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:23,400 down to it when we see an annexation there's two council meetings at the 586 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,560 first council meeting we're first adopting a municipal services agreement 587 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,200 which is essentially saying we're interested in annexing this property 588 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,520 these are all of the services that the city provides we are agreeing to provide 589 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,760 those services to that landowner and City Council adopts that agreement 590 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:45,200 following that there's a public hearing regarding the annexation anybody is 591 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,440 welcome to comment on that and then we actually read the caption of the 592 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,240 ordinance into the record at that first meeting following the first meeting the 593 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,720 entirety of the annexation ordinance is published in the Denton record chronicle 594 00:56:57,720 --> 00:57:02,520 and per our city charter that cannot be acted on for another 30 days so we'll 595 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,240 publish it and we'll just kind of hang out for 30 days and we'll have the second 596 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:10,640 meeting at which point we read the caption again into the record and City 597 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,440 Council can take action so that's kind of that's the process in which a property 598 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:22,120 can be annexed into the city post annexation annexation ordinances are 599 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,600 effective immediately and per state law we have to assign them a placeholder 600 00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:31,160 zoning designation in our case we assign the rural residential zoning designation 601 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:36,000 and it's only after annexation can zoning action occur so we don't notice 602 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,480 properties for public hearing prior to them being in the city limits because we 603 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,720 don't have that land use authority yet and then from there the property will 604 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,720 follow our typical rezoning procedures for development that's a that's a lot of 605 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,000 information so we're going to walk through two examples that really show 606 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,880 how different the process can be or how much time it can take when we're talking 607 00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:04,520 about annexation the subsequent rezoning and development so here on the left side 608 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,920 of the screen we have coal ranch and then on the right hand side of the 609 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:15,560 screen we have Dentex coal ranch is sort of near Robeson Ranch off of 35w and 610 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:20,680 its annexation patterns varied but it was largely annexed between 2001 and 611 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:25,560 2006 so they're annexed and they're assigned a placeholder designation 612 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,760 following that they were initially zoned MPC for their master plan community in 613 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:37,560 2008 and then not much happened really until 2020 when they sought major 614 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,400 amendments to their MPC and we have the the zoning that we have today where you 615 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,120 see the different shadings for the the base zoning districts which are most 616 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:48,240 familiar with it wasn't until a couple years later that we started seeing 617 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,840 preliminary plot approvals for coal ranch and even today you know they're 618 00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:56,600 still working on some of those CEPs and final plots for their first phase so 619 00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,920 we're talking in over 20 years before we're even seeing dirt moving on a 620 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:08,600 project like the coal ranch scale on the other hand Dentex which is just south of 621 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,880 Allroad Road north of Johnson Lane it's by the country lakes development in 622 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:20,000 South Denton this was annexed in 2024 immediately following their annexation 623 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,920 they took forward their zoning and comprehensive plan amendment cases and 624 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:30,160 those were also approved in 2024 and then today in 2026 they have received 625 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:35,240 approvals for their CEPs and their final plot is up for consideration so that 626 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:42,320 just there is no one-size-fits-all path for annexations there is no real linear 627 00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,880 way it's very development specific obviously these large master plan 628 00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,720 communities when we're talking about 2,000 plus acres that's going to take 629 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,600 some time to plan out and develop Dentex is kind of one of the donut 630 00:59:54,600 --> 01:00:00,120 holes that we referred to this was all not in the city limits however it was 631 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,480 surrounded with the exception of these areas by city limits so it's kind of a 632 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,760 little bit of a hole within our municipality so it's it's filling that 633 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,040 in and following some of the existing development patterns so that's kind of 634 01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:15,120 two different ways that annexation the subsequent rezoning and eventual land 635 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:21,960 development can play out there no one case is alike is a good way to put it 636 01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:26,000 that's all I know about annexations we're talking a little bit about MUDs 637 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:32,480 which are municipal utility districts and municipal utility districts are 638 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:38,120 special-purpose districts special-purpose districts are created to provide a 639 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:43,240 mechanism to fund infrastructure in areas where they otherwise wouldn't be 640 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:48,360 MUDs specifically are created to provide infrastructure for development in most 641 01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,640 cases it's residential development but there may be a commercial component 642 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:56,320 associated with it MUDs can be created in one of two ways either by an act of 643 01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,760 the legislature or through TCEQ following a consent process through the 644 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,640 city there are stipulations for some MUDs and they can annex into the city 645 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:12,000 following repayment of their bond funding MUDs are are kind of a hot topic 646 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:17,720 we do have several they do operate in our ETJ this map shows sort of where 647 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:24,160 they're scattered but for placement this is 156 and this is 380 so we have crumb 648 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:29,960 and Sanger a lot of these are out west in the city limits we have several that 649 01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:35,320 we've provided consent to and then we're also aware of a handful more that are 650 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:44,320 interested in in joining in on that process what that means is we expect 651 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:49,080 MUDs to have a population impact of approximately a hundred and eight 652 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:57,080 thousand people accounting for just under just under thirty four thousand 653 01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:02,740 housing units through MUDs we are agreeing to provide utility services to 654 01:02:02,740 --> 01:02:09,520 these areas usually negotiated through a development agreement in 2022 the city 655 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:14,800 did adopt a MUD policy this helps guide the framework for development agreements 656 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:20,280 and gives us a little bit of ability to ensure that we're getting utility 657 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:25,640 services the way that we would like them and we can have some say and how those 658 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:32,120 areas develop Denton is a full-service city which does make us an attractive 659 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,240 place the development agreements do help us to ensure we're building to city 660 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,640 standards and give us that opportunity for future annexation should we wish to 661 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:46,160 pursue that and then just a reminder again most of these MUDs occur in our 662 01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,600 ETJ I'm sorry all of our MUDs occur in our ETJ it's not really an option for in 663 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:56,240 city we don't have land use control in the ETJs we kind of discussed earlier 664 01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:03,480 when we adopted the 2022 comprehensive plan we noted that we had several MUDs 665 01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,080 we were aware of and had been approved and we tried to outline those in pink 666 01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,000 so you can see them obviously from the map we saw earlier today it has changed 667 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:17,120 a little bit but we did try to at least reflect and account for that 668 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,440 it's kind of ahead on MUDs I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about 669 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:32,240 either topic questions I'll kick it off with the easy and fun questions if you 670 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:38,760 could go early back in the mud I think that the actually that last one will do 671 01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:51,800 just fine yes I've always been curious how the ETJ borders operate between us 672 01:03:51,800 --> 01:04:00,800 and cities within our ETJ 2 to determine the line between our ETJ and their ETJ I 673 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:07,600 think from looking this at this map it tells me that essentially their ETJ 1 674 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:18,800 beats our ETJ 2 and then is that accurate I'm just I'm just curious if we 675 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:22,160 know it looks like Hillary were you preparing to chime in this gets a little 676 01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:34,640 bit out of some of my competing ETJ area of expertise I think it's to be quite 677 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:39,600 informal more of a dib system like whoever got their first and staked claim 678 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:44,120 but you can see looking at like Sanger and Crumb they because of their 679 01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:49,600 population size only could go out so far so that enabled us to further surround 680 01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:55,400 them and limit any potential growth of their ETJ by then laying claim to the 681 01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,840 other areas and I would say the ETJ 1 and 2 I believe is probably unique to 682 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:03,160 Denton I've not heard of other cities that have that that is actually just a 683 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,400 product of our inner local agreement with the county and us divvying up who 684 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,720 was going to have subdivision authority over those areas but feel free to chime 685 01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:15,320 in if I misstated anything there I would only expand on one concept is that the 686 01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:20,760 calling dibs is governed by when a city reaches those different population 687 01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,800 thresholds that Angie showed earlier in the presentation so if Sanger got out 688 01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:31,840 to a one mile radius before we were at our five mile radius that's why you see 689 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:38,440 us kind of surrounding them thank you the more you know with the whole 690 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:46,000 rainbow thing interesting and then I've also always been curious I understand 691 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:51,560 that the non exit annexation agreements that we have have those requirements 692 01:05:51,560 --> 01:06:03,680 that you described is council bound to continue all of those agreements or if 693 01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,600 they wanted to in the future could they release the landholder of their 694 01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:13,000 requirements sure so they they have set expiration dates and the the initial 695 01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:17,320 ones in 2020 at that time we evaluated because we can offer them for a period 696 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,320 of up to 45 years and so the the question at that time was do we want to 697 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:26,720 continue to to honor this and just only trigger that annexation when either more 698 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,280 really in that case when they want to develop so currently right now we're 699 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,700 still working through some of those ones that haven't quite responded and the 700 01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:36,760 action has been if they're not renewing to annex but we're not actively looking 701 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,800 to break any of those agreements okay 702 01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:52,240 questions yeah Commissioner McDuff a big date so do muds have any type of 703 01:06:52,240 --> 01:07:02,960 authority to work they get their authority from the state yes so do they 704 01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:10,080 have the ability to levy taxes or anything like that in their mud or 705 01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:15,760 additional tax they do but I'm gonna let Charlie address that because he's very 706 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:24,240 knowledgeable yes so the muds do you have the ability to either levy ad valorem 707 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:28,160 tax on the property itself or they're able to recover those costs through 708 01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:37,360 special assessments in the way that they're handled so then does it become 709 01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:42,520 some type of additional agreement or with whoever purchases a property within 710 01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:48,440 a mud they already know they're gonna pay additional taxes because of the mud 711 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,840 yeah so it's it's disclosed at the time that the property is sold that they're 712 01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,200 within a mud and it's similar to what you would see on your own property taxes 713 01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:01,200 where it's like different layers of city county ISD and then they would have a 714 01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,680 separate line item they would say it's mud name and then that property tax 715 01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:09,960 amount so the city would collect those taxes and send it to the mud the 716 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,700 appraisal district would collect those taxes and remit it back to the district 717 01:08:13,700 --> 01:08:17,120 itself thank you 718 01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:21,240 chairman can I piggyback on that please this is why you always ask your real 719 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,680 estate agent when you're looking for a house if you're looking in an area that 720 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,320 has a pit and a mud so you know if there's any extra taxes that you have to 721 01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:39,200 pay outside of your city your county and your school taxes any other questions 722 01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:54,000 all right thank you Angie very much that brings our work session to a close I 723 01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:02,000 believe so at 620 p.m. we will break and reconvene at 630 in council chambers 724 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:12,000 thank you good evening at 632 p.m. this Wednesday April 8 I will call this 725 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,240 regular session of the city of Denton planning and zoning Commission to order 726 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:20,680 with a quorum present let the record show that Commissioner Riggs is absent 727 01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:26,520 our first order of business is to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance to the 728 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:53,440 U.S. and Texas flag 729 01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:12,360 that brings us to our next item of business item to a PZ 26 - 51 consider 730 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:17,000 the approval of the March 18th planning and zoning missions minutes 731 01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:30,760 Commissioner catcher said and Commissioner Garland seeing no discussion 732 01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:43,720 I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our consent 733 01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:53,280 agenda I will note that there was a typo in the agenda information sheet on item 734 01:10:53,280 --> 01:11:02,680 3a this is actually phase 5 of this plot as opposed to phase 3 however because 735 01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:07,800 the plat approves the the plat that gets recorded with the county as opposed to 736 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:13,600 the edge of the information sheet there's no issue to to approve this from a 737 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:20,000 correctness perspective do I have any discussion or motion Commissioner 738 01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:26,000 catcher said a motion to approve the consent agenda Commissioner Garland and 739 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:33,400 I second that motion thank you any discussion seeing none I'll call for a 740 01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:45,160 vote on the board and the consent agenda is approved 6-0 brings us to our items 741 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:54,560 for individual consideration for a FP 26 - 11 good evening chair members of the 742 01:11:54,560 --> 01:12:00,960 Commission Ashley exit associate planner this is FP 26 11 this is a final plot 743 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,880 for honey farms estate this is an approximately 9.24 acre site on the 744 01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,000 south side of Sanders Road at this time the staff does recommends denial as they 745 01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,560 do not meet the criteria for approval however we have no objection to the 746 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,800 requested extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 and I'm happy to answer 747 01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:24,480 any questions any questions or emotion Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make 748 01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:32,840 a motion for the extension of this proposal to a date certain of April 29th 2026 749 01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:41,400 and sorry Commissioner Kester said I second that motion 750 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:50,040 seeing no discussion with the motion and second on the board I'll call for a vote 751 01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:59,960 on the board to continue that item passes 6-0 brings us to our second item for 752 01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:07,280 individual consideration for be FP 26 - 6 good evening chair members of the 753 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:12,880 Commission Angie Mcglares assistant planning director this is FP 26 - 0 0 0 6 754 01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:17,520 this is a final pot for the bridal ridge subdivision it's generally located north 755 01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:24,480 of Johnson Lane and approximately 2,400 feet east of John Payne Road this plot 756 01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:28,440 does now meet our criteria for approval and staff is recommending approval this 757 01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:32,600 evening I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have thank you 758 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:37,240 Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to make a motion for the approval of this 759 01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,080 proposal in line with staffs recommendation this will be a second 760 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:48,560 extension to a date certain of April 29th 2026 part pardon me to approve the 761 01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,760 application or approve the extension approve the extension okay in line with 762 01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:58,680 staffs recommendation sorry can I get clarification on his staff recommending 763 01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:03,600 approval or extension yes this is one of the ones that they addressed all our 764 01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,900 comments this afternoon we are able to get them for approval so staff is 765 01:14:06,900 --> 01:14:12,200 recommending approval this evening so just can you restate your motion yes I'll 766 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:18,840 recite my motion for the approval of this proposal and Commissioner Ketchus 767 01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:25,280 said I second that motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for 768 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:40,440 a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to item 4 CFP 26 - 13 thank you 769 01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:43,680 Angie Mingler's assistant planning director this is a final plot for the 770 01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:48,800 Alevo apartments is approximately 18 acre site located south of Duchess Drive 771 01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:53,900 approximately 800 feet west of loop 288 in the city of Denton at this time the 772 01:14:53,900 --> 01:14:57,520 plot does not meet all of our criteria for approval so staff is recommending 773 01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:00,680 denial but has no objection to the requested extension which could be 774 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,280 granted to a date certain of April 29th I'm happy to answer any questions y'all 775 01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:11,120 may have thank you Commissioner Ketchus said a motion to approve the extension 776 01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:18,520 certain to April 29th Commissioner Garland and I second that with a motion 777 01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:29,360 a second no discussion I'll call for a vote on the board that item passes 6-0 778 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:41,080 brings us to 4d FP 26 - 3 evening chair members of the Commission behind senior 779 01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:48,840 planner this item is FP 26 - 3 a final plot for Hickory Grove phase 6 the 780 01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:54,800 property is 66.5 to 1 acres located at the southeast corner of Jackson Road and 781 01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:59,120 Nail Road in the city's ETJ and further or closer to the western edge of the 782 01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:04,080 city at this time the plot is not meeting all our criteria approval so we 783 01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:08,360 have we are recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested 784 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:13,520 extension to May 13 2026 and this would be their third extension for this final 785 01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:19,320 plan happy to answer any questions you may have yeah Commissioner Garland the 786 01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:24,760 previous item is still on the screen I was just I don't know if it's an issue 787 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:40,940 sorry okay now we're back okay you're good now thank you I have one question 788 01:16:40,940 --> 01:16:48,280 just that I didn't catch in the work session this is recommended extension to 789 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:54,640 two meetings from now instead of one meeting I'm sorry no what is the what's 790 01:16:54,640 --> 01:17:00,600 that next day it would be the April 29th that would be April 29 2026 okay would 791 01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:05,680 be the next meeting my apologies okay just wanted to confirm that open the 792 01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:14,840 floor for a discussion or emotion yeah yes Commissioner Ketcham I motion to 793 01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:19,320 approve the extension request to a date certain of April 29 2026 794 01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:25,000 Commissioner Garland and I'll second the extension with the motion and a second 795 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:37,720 on the board seeing no discussion call for a vote that item passes 6-0 brings us 796 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:43,120 to 4E V 26 - 5 797 01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:56,480 good evening Commission map or Dean assistant planner here to present the 798 01:17:56,480 --> 01:18:01,680 triptych addition subdivision variance so a little bit of background this 799 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:10,280 subdivision variance is associated with a 10 acre lot located about just under a 800 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,280 mile north of loop 288 there's an existing family residence on the site 801 01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:18,600 it's associated with a final replat that's also on the agenda tonight 802 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:25,080 pushing to subdivide into two lots one of those lots the one in the city's ETJ 803 01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:32,480 only has access to a public road via an existing private access easement which 804 01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:38,000 brings us to the subdivision variance request there is a requirement in our 805 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:44,560 subdivision regulations that no more than yeah no more than three single family 806 01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:49,920 lots may access a public road by means of a private access easement just do the 807 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:55,760 configuration of this area there are already more than three residential 808 01:18:55,760 --> 01:19:02,920 lots that access the existing easement and so in order to approve this final 809 01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:08,720 replat a variance request was made to allow more than two residential lots to 810 01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:13,360 access a public street by means of a private access easement so there are 811 01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,840 four criteria for approval of a subdivision variance I'll go through 812 01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:23,320 each one individually and staff's assessment of them so the first one is 813 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:27,320 that in granting the variance it not be detrimental to public safety health and 814 01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:34,680 welfare is found that these are the purpose of this replat is for two 815 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:40,720 single-family residents lots we do not see any detriment to public safety just 816 01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:48,240 due to no increase in traffic burden on FM 2164 the second criteria is that 817 01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:54,320 because of any particular conditions of the property or its area that the strict 818 01:19:54,320 --> 01:20:00,440 regulation of the code creates a hardship staff finds that the peculiar 819 01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:05,560 pattern of development in this area creates this hardship this property 820 01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:14,880 cannot subdivide under the current DC regulations as is since as shown on the 821 01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:20,080 screen we can see there are 12 lots that takes access off of this existing 822 01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:25,200 private access easement also called the concrete road of which at least nine are 823 01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:34,480 for single-family residences the third criteria is that the variance not very 824 01:20:34,480 --> 01:20:41,480 any provisions of our long-range planning documents or the DDC this the 825 01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:45,760 final plot associated with this variance follows all other requirements of the 826 01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:53,040 DDC in addition the plot does make right away reservations for future corridors 827 01:20:53,040 --> 01:21:00,280 that are called for on the mobility plan fourth and granting this variance 828 01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:06,400 request the peculiar conditions should not be the results of the action of the 829 01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:12,280 owner or any prior owner subsequent to the date of the creation requirement as 830 01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:17,480 seen on the abstract survey shown on the screen this particular configuration of 831 01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:23,000 lots with well more than three having sole access office easement has been 832 01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:30,720 in effect since at least 1987 which is well before this criteria of the DDC was 833 01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:36,080 put in place as such staff is recommending an approval of the 834 01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:40,440 requested subdivision variance as it complies with the criteria but here to 835 01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:55,120 answer any questions any questions for staff or emotion commissioner dire I 836 01:21:55,120 --> 01:22:03,000 move to make a motion that we go ahead and approve a recommendation to do the 837 01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:13,280 subdivision variance commissioner I second that motion okay any discussion 838 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:18,960 not seeing any with a motion and a second I will call for a vote on the 839 01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:38,440 board that item passes six to zero brings us to item 4f fr 26 - three 840 01:22:42,480 --> 01:22:49,320 giving Commission again assistant planner I'm here presenting this final replat I 841 01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:54,080 was associated with the subdivision variance that we just approved and since 842 01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:59,360 PNC did vote to approve that subdivision variance staff is recommending approval 843 01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:07,760 of this replat as it would meet all the required requirements of the DDC thank 844 01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:12,920 you and this would be refer to the the version of the plot that was emailed to 845 01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,960 the commissioners this afternoon okay Commissioner Kettreson I recommend 846 01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:24,960 approval for this final plat and Commissioner Dyer I'd like to second 847 01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:32,400 that motion and seeing no discussion having a motion and a second I'll call 848 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:46,840 for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to item 4g mp 26 - 849 01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:56,040 four good evening Commission here to present a final plot of lots one and two 850 01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:02,800 block a was that Zipetta edition located in the city's ETJ off of Gribble Springs 851 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:08,080 Road and north of Shepherd Road at this time this plat doesn't meet our 852 01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:12,440 criteria for approval however staff has no objection to their first extension 853 01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:19,880 requests to a date certain of April 29th Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like them to 854 01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:24,920 make a motion to approve a first extension to a date certain of April 29th 855 01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:29,880 2026 which would be in agreement with the staff recommendation and Commissioner 856 01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,960 Garland and I'll second that recommendation having a first and second 857 01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:47,800 and seeing no discussion call for a vote on the board that item passes six zero 858 01:24:47,800 --> 01:25:00,320 moves us to item 4h FP 26 - eight good evening Julie Wyatt principal planner 859 01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:05,800 of the city of Denton I'm presenting FP 26 eight to you this evening this is a 860 01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:11,560 single lot located on the south side of Vintage Road just east of I 35 West the 861 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:16,160 purpose of it is sorry it's two lots the purpose of it is for a charter school 862 01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:23,160 and then a commercial lot for future development your your agenda posted had 863 01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:27,440 a staff recommendation of denial they still had some final items to work 864 01:25:27,440 --> 01:25:31,200 through however they have worked through those with staff and so staff has 865 01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:34,800 changed its recommendation to approval you should have received that revised 866 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:43,040 plat today so I'll be happy to answer any questions any questions Commissioner 867 01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:49,360 McDuff yes that's why thank you for that information want to make a motion to 868 01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:54,680 agree with staff recommendation for approval and Commissioner Dyer I'll 869 01:25:54,680 --> 01:26:00,120 second that motion having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion call 870 01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:15,840 for a vote on the board that item passes six zero brings us to four I FP 26 - 12 871 01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:20,680 good evening this is a final plot for an industrial development the property is 872 01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:28,120 located just east of I 35 south of highway 77 and north of loot 288 they at 873 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:32,120 this time the plot does not comply with our criteria for approval so staff is 874 01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:35,800 recommending denial however we have no objection to the requested first 875 01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,920 extension to April 29th and I'll be happy to answer any questions 876 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:47,960 Commissioner Kutcher said a motion to approve their recommended the requested 877 01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:53,520 extension to a date of April 29 2026 Commissioner Garland and I will second 878 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,200 that extension having a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll 879 01:26:58,200 --> 01:27:01,320 call for a vote on the board 880 01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:14,160 that item passes six zero brings us to our last item for individual 881 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:23,960 consideration for JFP 26 - for Canadian Chair and Commission this is for the 882 01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:28,680 final plot for landmark phase two north it is approximately 184 acre site 883 01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:33,120 generally located north the north side of Robson Ranch Road approximately one 884 01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:38,440 mile west of I 35 West at this time staff has no objection to the first 885 01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:44,640 requested extension as they do not meet the current criteria for approval but we 886 01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:48,880 are looking at an extension date to a certain of April 29 2026 I can say for 887 01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:58,360 any questions I guess I have one we earlier we had one that we had the date 888 01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:03,400 wrong for an extension do applicants have the ability to ask for an extension 889 01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:09,160 that's longer than the next meeting they only have this so so for bigger ones 890 01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:13,360 where there's more things to address we just have to keep coming back okay thank 891 01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:19,120 you Commissioner Dyer I would like to go with staff recommendation and extend 892 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:25,640 this petition to April 29th meeting Commissioner Kutcher said I second that 893 01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:30,520 motion with a motion and a second not seeing any discussion I'll call for a 894 01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:41,200 vote on the board that item passes 6-0 brings us to our public hearings this 895 01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:49,240 evening first public hearing is 5 a HL 26 - one Canadian Chair and Commission 896 01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:58,360 Cameron Robertson historic preservation officer I stated this is a historic this 897 01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:03,040 is a request for a historic landmark designation at 1403 Kendal Drive it is 898 01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:06,880 located approximately 370 feet north of the intersection of Kendall Drive and 899 01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:10,860 Whippoorwill Lane the owners are Jennifer and David Morales and the 900 01:29:10,860 --> 01:29:16,800 construction days 1959 the property itself is located within that Denia 901 01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:21,320 neighborhood it is an R3 zoning it is currently a rental property and it sits 902 01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:28,800 on approximately 3.23 acres so looking this is looking at the property from 903 01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:33,720 that front west facade and then it also shows that rear east facade there and 904 01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:40,240 then we're also looking at the north and south facades of the property so before 905 01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:45,480 I dive into staffs analysis looking specifically at section 2.9.4 B I did 906 01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:50,500 just want to point to the AIS that backup packet in referring to the work 907 01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:55,880 session question I just wanted to note that for historic landmark designation 908 01:29:55,880 --> 01:30:01,880 process it is not subject to compliance with our criteria in 2.4.5 E of our 909 01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:05,120 debt and development code which specifically calls out minimizing 910 01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:10,200 fiscal impact and criteria so just want to make note of that that specifically 911 01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:13,720 for historic landmark designations we're solely looking at the criteria in 912 01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:21,120 section 2.9.4 B listed here so going into staffs analysis 1403 913 01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:25,520 Kendall Drive does meet the following it meets criteria one which looks at that 914 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:29,120 character interest or value as part of the development heritage or cultural 915 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:33,720 characteristics of the city state or the United States criteria three reflects a 916 01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:38,160 distinguishing characteristic of an architectural type or specimen criteria 917 01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:42,880 four identification as the work of an architecture master builder criteria 918 01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:47,320 nine exemplification of the cultural economic social ethnic or historical 919 01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,400 heritage of the city criteria 11 identification with a person who 920 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:54,640 significantly contributed to the culture and development of the city state or the 921 01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:58,480 United States and then lastly criteria 12 a building a structure that because of 922 01:30:58,480 --> 01:31:02,920 its location has become a value to a neighborhood community area or the city 923 01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:09,080 so I kind of grouped criteria one three and nine they're all very similar so I 924 01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:14,360 wanted to show those on one slide so this property specifically 1403 925 01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:18,800 Kendall it shows how Denton especially during this time as post World War two 926 01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,620 we saw it embrace that kind of mid-century trend especially in the 927 01:31:22,620 --> 01:31:26,480 Denia neighborhood as a whole we saw a lot of innovative designs kind of that 928 01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:30,600 international mid-century design style we saw a lot of servant suburban style 929 01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:35,080 where we see that attached carport we also saw the integration a lot of 930 01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:39,120 natural landscapes so a lot of large windows a lot of window walls and a lot 931 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:44,440 of natural light as stated it captured a lot of those distinguishing elements of 932 01:31:44,440 --> 01:31:49,120 mid-century modern design so that indoor outdoor flow we have that we have also 933 01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:52,600 seen with some of the other Denia properties that have come forward for 934 01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:59,800 designation specifically on Willow wood we also have that natural light and then 935 01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:03,040 some of those exposed structural elements trying to show the innovation of 936 01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:08,320 the architectural style at that time it also shows once again dd neighborhood 937 01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:12,480 has a strong presence of mid-century modern homes we saw kind of see that 938 01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:18,040 modernism towards the 1960s late 1950s and just this is another example of a 939 01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:23,080 modernist architecture in Denia and this is specifically along Whippoorwill I'm 940 01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:28,240 looking at criteria for the property was designed by the Mount Miller architects 941 01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:32,640 Tom Polk Miller and Isabelle Mount and they became an architecture firm in 942 01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:37,960 1946 Mount Miller a lot of people are familiar with that name they designed and 943 01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:44,320 remodeled between 203 home 300 homes and commercial and institutional properties 944 01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:51,320 between 1953 and 2000 within Denton and a lot within Denia so some of the exam 945 01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:55,480 noted examples of Mount Miller work in Denton we have the Denton Unitarian 946 01:32:55,480 --> 01:33:00,720 Universalist Fellowship we have 1900 Westridge Drive which was designated in 947 01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:08,600 2024 and then we have 2012 26 Kendall Drive and then looking at approval 948 01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:12,960 criteria 11 the original owner who actually worked with Mount Miller to 949 01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:18,400 design the property is dr. Hiram J Freedman he served in the US Marine Corps 950 01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:23,800 during and after World War two he had a long career at UNT as professor and 951 01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:28,160 administrator he was the chair of the sociology department he was the first 952 01:33:28,160 --> 01:33:32,880 chair of UNT Center for Studies in aging he also served on the White House 953 01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:40,000 conferences on aging in 1961 1971 in 1981 and he also has an award at the 954 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:47,720 national level named after him lastly looking at approval criteria 12 a lot of 955 01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,800 people have started to kind of associate Denia with these mid-century modern 956 01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:56,420 homes specifically this property this property has been called out in walking 957 01:33:56,420 --> 01:34:01,000 tours you see here the map from 2023 this was a walking tour of historic 958 01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:05,340 preservation in that neighborhood and then that was done by the county and then 959 01:34:05,340 --> 01:34:09,080 we have a screenshot here of a video that was done on a walking tour last 960 01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:14,960 year during historic preservation month for Denton revealed in 2025 so as I say 961 01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:19,680 it's been featured in lots of public architectural tours and it's kind of 962 01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:28,160 part of that core group of Mount Miller homes in that area so staffs analysis 963 01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:31,720 also looked at our 2019 historic preservation plan as well as our Denton 964 01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:36,760 2040 comprehensive plan specifically looking at goal one policy 1.3 and goal 965 01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:43,260 goal community character - - public outreach was done newspaper postings 966 01:34:43,260 --> 01:34:47,760 website postings and property sign were posted in March mail notices went to 967 01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:54,600 200 feet went to 25 people 500 or 156 notices we do not receive any responses 968 01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:59,200 in opposition in favor or neutral so staff is recommending approval of the 969 01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,440 request for a historic landmark designation of the property located at 970 01:35:02,440 --> 01:35:08,080 1403 Kindle drive as it doesn't meet our approval criteria historic landmark 971 01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:12,120 Christian did recommend approval 7-0 and the next steps would be going to City 972 01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:18,600 Council on April 21st 2026 and I can stand for any questions thank you this 973 01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:26,960 is a public hearing so I will open the public hearing at this time Cameron let 974 01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:35,080 me let me ask with the update that you gave after the work session on the the 975 01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:41,640 lists of criteria that the planning and zoning should consider for these items 976 01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:50,360 I see the new list in two nine four D where is it called out that the standard 977 01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:55,640 list of criteria should not apply for these applications so that is 978 01:35:55,640 --> 01:36:14,920 specifically it's a big development going you don't have to apologize so it's 979 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:20,320 specifically just listed on our section two point nine point four B stating that 980 01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:25,280 the HPO and the HLC shall HLC compliance with one of the following criteria and 981 01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:30,200 that's under I believe it's also listed our historic landmark and historic 982 01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:39,360 preservation procedures earlier in that chapter okay so this is a public hearing 983 01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:47,800 I I will ask I have one card in support but an agenda item is not indicated from 984 01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:53,560 mr. Donald McDade is that for the next one okay just wanted to check so I don't 985 01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:59,120 have any cards to speak or in opposition or support at this time but if you would 986 01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:06,320 like to speak you can come down at this time not seeing anyone I will close the 987 01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:15,600 public hearing Commissioner catch his head I motion to approve the historic 988 01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:34,200 landmark designation and Commissioner McDade they will be able to come back 989 01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:39,560 and request tax exemption for this property as long as they have spent a 990 01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:44,560 minimum of $10,000 on the property for improvement and/or restoration to the 991 01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:48,520 project art to the property itself so with the owners submit documentation 992 01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:52,400 invoices from yes they would have to submit documentation showing that 993 01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:56,120 they've received building permits that they followed all proper city procedures 994 01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:01,320 if they are required to get a building permit and they would submit that to 995 01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:05,280 staff staff would review that and then it would go through to the historic 996 01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:08,640 landmark Commission and the City Council for final approval and then with that 997 01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:13,540 designation remained yes unless the property owner chose to remove the 998 01:38:13,540 --> 01:38:22,440 designation in the future thank you I'm gonna go ahead and take the she asked 999 01:38:22,440 --> 01:38:29,360 specifically designation we do have a second on the board so I'm gonna take 1000 01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:33,640 that before the other request to speak but we'll we'll get to everybody I 1001 01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:38,360 promise Commissioner McDuff yes I'd like to put a formal second on the floor 1002 01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:49,240 please thank you and Commissioner Dyer um so are the applicants here yes 1003 01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:54,000 applicants are here okay so just a quick question I know we kind of talked about 1004 01:38:54,000 --> 01:39:02,640 this in earlier if they get this designation and they apply for the 1005 01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:07,280 historical tax exemptions I know you said that was just on city taxes unless 1006 01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:12,560 they get it correct from or get approval from the federal or the state correct 1007 01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:18,800 correct and because this is not their primary residents when it's not a 1008 01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:25,160 primary residence they do probably are paying more in property taxes to all the 1009 01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:30,800 entities to county school and city so there is going to be a significant 1010 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:35,440 amount on this one property that they could possibly not have to pay correct 1011 01:39:35,440 --> 01:39:39,200 potentially I don't have the numbers in front of me and that's all up to denton 1012 01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:44,840 CAD but I will note that we do have other former residences that are 1013 01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:51,040 historic or their landmarks locally that have businesses in them or income 1014 01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:57,400 producing that are utilizing that tax exemption and how many in this DNA 1015 01:39:57,400 --> 01:40:05,440 community have this this designation to other communities to other properties to 1016 01:40:05,440 --> 01:40:16,040 other properties okay thank you any other questions or discussion I guess I 1017 01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:31,000 have one the sorry is it's more of a comment than a question sorry to go a 1018 01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:40,920 little field a little bit here you know in a lot of these historical designation 1019 01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:48,000 applications I I have a hard time viewing or understanding the relative 1020 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:56,480 value of one property versus another in this case I think there's precedent here 1021 01:40:56,480 --> 01:41:08,200 of the prior tours of this area and and two other properties of this ilk to 1022 01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:16,360 support the continued designation in this area I'll say that I I disagree with 1023 01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:27,320 staff's analysis that the the traditional or or the the basic criteria 1024 01:41:27,320 --> 01:41:34,360 for approval for all items does not apply here I think it does so I think 1025 01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:46,040 fiscal impacts is fair game I I'm in general concerned that our policy opens 1026 01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:50,360 up the situation where higher value landowners can do something very minor 1027 01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:57,880 and get a very large tax exemption however in this case that's not what has 1028 01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:07,240 happened there has been major you know to to the beam investment in this 1029 01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:14,080 property to be able to preserve it I watched the HLC meeting on this and and 1030 01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:19,280 it was pretty clear the the extent of the process that the property owners 1031 01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:26,480 have gone through and now I remember my question to you so with that said it is 1032 01:42:26,480 --> 01:42:38,360 HLC looking at this historic designation and tax credit policy at a broader level 1033 01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:43,960 to to make sure that we are incentivizing it to the correct degree 1034 01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:48,040 with those requirements is that something on their matrix that's 1035 01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:53,880 something that HLC was working on from 2024 to 2025 but with the budget deficit 1036 01:42:53,880 --> 01:43:00,720 that were experienced that was put on pause okay I appreciate that I know we 1037 01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:09,360 can't all do three people's work I guess I'll just say I'll be supporting this 1038 01:43:09,360 --> 01:43:18,400 however I would hope that staff would include some clear messaging from what 1039 01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:23,880 what you all have heard from the board at the work session and here in this 1040 01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:31,580 session in order for them to understand the the concerns around the relative 1041 01:43:31,580 --> 01:43:37,320 benefit versus the cost and whether that's well calibrated so Commissioner 1042 01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:44,040 Dyer in looking back at some of the notes that were included in our exhibits 1043 01:43:44,040 --> 01:43:50,480 with the agenda I noticed it did have kind of the breakdown of the committee's 1044 01:43:50,480 --> 01:43:54,320 recommendation and it like you said it was seven to zero were there any 1045 01:43:54,320 --> 01:43:58,440 concerns whether you know they're similar to chair Pruitt's or maybe 1046 01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:01,960 similar to mine about you know the the tax exemptions and kind of taking 1047 01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:06,760 advantage of that because even though you can still kind of object of some 1048 01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:11,280 things or have some concerns but still vote to approve it but those exact 1049 01:44:11,280 --> 01:44:14,600 discussions aren't in there it just says there was a discussion that took place 1050 01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:18,080 so was there any concerns by the committee so there were no concerns 1051 01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:22,480 regarding the tax assumptions the only concern that they had is that the 1052 01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:27,080 property owner did with their renovations and looking at the historic 1053 01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:30,880 construction plans they did add an additional awning in the back just to 1054 01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:35,960 cover the porch and they did change up some of the landscaping in the front so 1055 01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:40,760 they just wanted to ensure that they met the rest of the criteria and then that 1056 01:44:40,760 --> 01:44:44,920 would not affect them with those additional additions and so staff walked 1057 01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:47,520 them kind of through that if those additions were to be removed it would 1058 01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:51,120 still be the exact same footprint and the same construction that was done back 1059 01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:59,560 in 1959 okay thank you of course and Commissioner McDade do the repairs have 1060 01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:05,440 to be done before during or after the designation so do they have to get the 1061 01:45:05,440 --> 01:45:09,200 designation first then do the repairs or do they have to have to have them done 1062 01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:15,260 before they have to have the so in this case the renovation and the restoration 1063 01:45:15,260 --> 01:45:20,760 project took place between 2013 to 2014 so is a year-long process so they are 1064 01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:24,360 coming about 12 years after the renovation and restoration process to 1065 01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:33,440 apply for this designation but 12 years yep so once they if they were to go 1066 01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:38,000 through City Council and be approved for a designation then they would be able to 1067 01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:43,640 utilize any work that they've done for the two years leading up to this 1068 01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:48,160 designation to utilize towards their tax exemption application if they sought to 1069 01:45:48,160 --> 01:46:00,080 seek that and Commissioner Dyer do you have something else okay no worries any 1070 01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:07,360 other discussion or questions from the Commission Commissioner McDuff I'm gonna 1071 01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:12,280 wrap this back around to neighborhoods in just a little history on top of it as 1072 01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:19,400 a and take this as a comment for my support of this proposal and that is if 1073 01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:23,880 you were indenting back in the day during this time and you were in education 1074 01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:28,560 you know who dr. Friedson was so this would be an honor to support this I had 1075 01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:33,640 the good fortune of studying in the summer in the Center for Aging so I'm 1076 01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:45,960 very familiar with him and his works his national reputation did just want to 1077 01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:50,080 remind the Commission that what's before you tonight is just the designation that 1078 01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:53,800 should be looked at on the historic merit of the property itself if the 1079 01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:56,640 owner does apply for that tax exemption that will go to City Council for their 1080 01:46:56,640 --> 01:47:04,400 consideration as a separate item in the future thank you yeah all I ask is that 1081 01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:09,000 our discussion be faithfully represented as I know staff always does a good job 1082 01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:15,760 of not seeing any more discussion I'll call for a vote on the board on this 1083 01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:28,720 item and this item passes 6 to 0 springs us to our final public hearing of the 1084 01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:33,800 evening so thank you for everyone being patient for the rest of the items on our 1085 01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:46,120 agenda let me call them sorry item 5b DCA 26 - - I'll make a brief statement just 1086 01:47:46,120 --> 01:47:49,880 to the the members of the public first of all thank you for coming thank you 1087 01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:57,280 for being engaged I would just ask that know that everyone up here is eager to 1088 01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:03,120 understand what your hopes and dreams or concerns or confusion or questions are 1089 01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:09,760 but we will be much better informed if when you come up to speak if you so 1090 01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:14,880 choose that you would be very clear about the provisions that staff is about 1091 01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:23,040 to explain that concern you or the things that you are concerned about that 1092 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:29,040 were not spoken to because then we can take direct action and better understand 1093 01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:33,440 what those things are so please do 1094 01:48:33,440 --> 01:48:38,360 good evening 1095 01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:46,720 all right I'm Julie Wyatt this is DCA 26 to South East Denton overlay 1096 01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:51,920 districts I'm gonna kick this off and then me'll come in and she'll she'll do 1097 01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:58,280 the the second half of the presentation so we are here tonight because in 2024 1098 01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:04,440 the City Council approved an area plan for southeastern as part of that area 1099 01:49:04,440 --> 01:49:09,800 plan we had a tremendous amount of public engagement residents and 1100 01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:14,000 stakeholders communicated to us that they were concerned about community 1101 01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:20,760 protection and neighborhood protection and also providing some some additional 1102 01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:25,220 benefits in terms of in terms of businesses that could be brought back to 1103 01:49:25,220 --> 01:49:30,920 the Prairie Street area and taking that information from the community the 1104 01:49:30,920 --> 01:49:36,920 Southeast Denton area plan has three has three action items related to this so 1105 01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:39,720 I'm going to talk first about what the what the overlays are and then we'll 1106 01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:43,240 talk about those action items so tonight we are proposing to amend Denton 1107 01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:48,120 development core didn't development code sub chapter 4 to establish three new 1108 01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:52,200 overlay districts in Southeast Denton to implement the Southeast Denton area plan 1109 01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:57,920 first we have the height limitation over to overlay district that is intended to 1110 01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:03,120 limit the heights in that area in blue the community was very concerned about 1111 01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:06,800 town downtown style development encroaching into Southeast Denton 1112 01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:11,720 especially adjacent to the neighborhoods so that height overlay is there to try 1113 01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:15,240 to create a more gentle direct transition between the residential areas 1114 01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:20,640 and the DCTA facility on the live work overlay district that is to protect 1115 01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:25,680 residential homes while adding in some some small businesses in the community 1116 01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:29,280 Mia knows a lot more about that and she's going to talk to you about that in 1117 01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:32,960 a little while and then the residential overlay and that is intended to protect 1118 01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:37,520 the character of the neighborhoods of Southeast Denton by encouraging a 1119 01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:42,000 compatible architectural design as well as building scale for new structures so 1120 01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:47,760 and that's that area in yellow so after we set the table talk a little bit about 1121 01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:52,200 why we're doing this the Southeast Denton area plan as I said was adopted 1122 01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:59,520 in July of 2024 as part of that there were six goals that that that based upon 1123 01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:05,360 community engagement and input were in were embedded within the plan we won't 1124 01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:09,880 talk about all six tonight just the three we're talking about our honor the 1125 01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:13,920 culture and heritage of Southeast Denton invest in economic prosperity and 1126 01:51:13,920 --> 01:51:18,320 strengthen neighborhoods and housing affordability in order to achieve those 1127 01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:23,920 goals that the community said that they would like to see for the future of 1128 01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,040 Southeast Denton there are those three tasks and those are related to these 1129 01:51:28,040 --> 01:51:34,360 overlay districts and they're on your screen right there before we go into the 1130 01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:38,320 deep dive on what we're actually proposing just a little bit about overlay 1131 01:51:38,320 --> 01:51:43,240 districts I know everybody knows this but just a reminder overlay districts are 1132 01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:48,080 tools to implement area plans they sit on top of the existing zoning and they 1133 01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:53,760 they those regulations for the existing zoning stay in place except for those 1134 01:51:53,760 --> 01:52:00,200 things that the overlay changes so it often enhances those zoning regulations 1135 01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:04,560 they often require substantial coordination between staff community and 1136 01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:09,920 stakeholders and and so in order to make sure we get those overlay districts 1137 01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:16,940 correct we talked about in work session public engagement throughout the 18 1138 01:52:16,940 --> 01:52:20,480 months that we worked on the Southeast Denton area plan we had 40 engagement 1139 01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:28,320 opportunities we talked to about 529 folks throughout the the process after 1140 01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:31,880 adoption and as we started to move forward with these overlay districts we 1141 01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:37,920 we had a block block party in in southeastern in March of last year to 1142 01:52:37,920 --> 01:52:41,240 have some additional surveys to confirm that we were on the right track in terms 1143 01:52:41,240 --> 01:52:46,760 of where we needed to go those draft overlay regulations went to 1144 01:52:46,760 --> 01:52:51,680 Juneteenth last summer as well as some community workshops last fall we had 1145 01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:55,960 community workshops not only for residents of Southeast Denton but also 1146 01:52:55,960 --> 01:53:00,040 for those non owner occupied property owners to make sure that we talk to all 1147 01:53:00,040 --> 01:53:06,600 folks we also had online surveys as well as we said no meetings boards and flyers 1148 01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:13,840 at the MLK and American Legion and then emails and calls so we're going to first 1149 01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:18,660 talk about the residential overlay so that is that area in yellow and again 1150 01:53:18,660 --> 01:53:22,560 this is intended to maintain the scale and character of neighborhoods while 1151 01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:29,040 fostering community investment so what we heard during the Southeast Denton area 1152 01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:34,740 plan preparation is that maintaining the single-family uses and protected 1153 01:53:34,740 --> 01:53:39,240 neighborhood scale and character were of utmost important with for community 1154 01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:45,640 members we also through our data collection learned that there are 60 1155 01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:50,760 acres of privately held land that are potentially developable in Southeast 1156 01:53:50,760 --> 01:53:55,640 Denton that provides an opportunity but it also can cause some concern and what 1157 01:53:55,640 --> 01:54:00,160 we wanted to do is make sure that we had the proper regulations in place so that 1158 01:54:00,160 --> 01:54:04,060 anything that would be developed on that property would be consistent with the 1159 01:54:04,060 --> 01:54:11,840 community's vision so taking that information we we went we did a 1160 01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:15,480 windshield survey of the community so the planning department drove around 1161 01:54:15,480 --> 01:54:18,760 Southeast Denton and looked at all of the different facets associated with the 1162 01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:24,400 architecture things like building scale architectural details architectural 1163 01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:28,920 styles what what types of elements were were found on the homes in Southeast 1164 01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,720 Denton we compiled that information and that is what we took to the block party 1165 01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:37,880 with a series of questions and surveys about hey do you want more of this or is 1166 01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:41,320 this what you want and to try to get feedback from the community about what 1167 01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:45,600 they would like to encourage or what they would like to see the regulations 1168 01:54:45,600 --> 01:54:51,840 today are based upon that feedback as well as other feedback so we combined 1169 01:54:51,840 --> 01:54:59,800 that information with with kind of what what the intent for the residential 1170 01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:04,920 overlay was and and really it falls into three buckets we want to know what the 1171 01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:09,760 applicability is so who it applies to we want to make sure the building scale is 1172 01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,480 consistent with what the community wants and we also want to make sure the 1173 01:55:12,480 --> 01:55:16,780 architecture is the same is what the community would like to see so first we 1174 01:55:16,780 --> 01:55:20,520 want it we looked at the existing zoning to see what was in place to make sure 1175 01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:27,360 that their regulations adequately addressed what what what wasn't what 1176 01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:34,240 wasn't desired in the existing zoning so Southeast Denton for them for the vast 1177 01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:40,720 majority of the of the residential neighborhoods is our four district that 1178 01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:45,120 allows for a maximum building height the 40 feet and it's primarily single family 1179 01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:49,200 but it would allow townhomes or duplexes with approval from City Council through 1180 01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:54,320 the specific use process there is a portion of our three and Southeast 1181 01:55:54,320 --> 01:55:59,920 Denton again maximum 40 foot height single family our seven 40 feet height 1182 01:55:59,920 --> 01:56:05,240 and it provides it allows for a variety of residential uses as well as some 1183 01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:09,720 very limited commercial uses we see that a little bit along Prairie and along 1184 01:56:09,720 --> 01:56:13,600 Dallas or near Dallas Drive and then we've also have a little bit of mixed 1185 01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:17,800 use neighborhood around Robertson Street and that also allows that 40 feet based 1186 01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:22,240 upon its context and then we have planned development for a little bit in 1187 01:56:22,240 --> 01:56:26,640 Southeast Denton and also public facilities the public facilities are 1188 01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:31,440 things like the parks the semia is the school so we knew we had a bit you know 1189 01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:37,240 a maximum height the 40 feet which you could potentially build a three-story 1190 01:56:37,240 --> 01:56:43,960 building or two and a half story building with that height but the 1191 01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:48,800 community said that really one to two story buildings were most appropriate 1192 01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:53,120 for Southeast Denton so we're proposing to lower the maximum height within the 1193 01:56:53,120 --> 01:56:57,700 Southeast Denton residential overlay to 30 feet that would still allow a two 1194 01:56:57,700 --> 01:57:03,000 story home but it wouldn't allow those those structures to go up to three 1195 01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:08,200 three stories the maximum height proposed height for accessory structures 1196 01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:12,600 like garages accessory accessory dwelling units would be 20 feet as 1197 01:57:12,600 --> 01:57:18,320 proposed and that would allow one and a half stories we also looked at 1198 01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:22,680 architectural character we have regulations within the Denton 1199 01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:27,640 development code that applies citywide to residential development it is looking 1200 01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:31,680 at things like how much of the front facade can be in windows and doors what 1201 01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:35,320 kinds of architectural interesting elements you have to have on the front 1202 01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:41,520 of the of the structure how big the garage can be so those are things that 1203 01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:47,200 apply to the city citywide but after doing the windshield survey and talking 1204 01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:51,880 to the community we we and the special nature of Southeast Denton how unique it 1205 01:57:51,880 --> 01:57:57,360 is in terms of of how it relates to the street how the streetscape and and the 1206 01:57:57,360 --> 01:58:02,400 front porches we felt like this list probably wasn't consistent with what the 1207 01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:08,320 community's vision was especially in terms of like recessed entries and other 1208 01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:12,640 things that just wouldn't necessarily fit so we are proposing a different list 1209 01:58:12,640 --> 01:58:19,000 of regulations and that would be that all new homes would would have to 1210 01:58:19,000 --> 01:58:23,440 provide either a porch or a stoop and it would have to be usable so the porch 1211 01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:28,360 would have to be either 25% of the ground floor facade and the stoop 24 1212 01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:33,440 square feet we're also proposing to increase what what the windows and doors 1213 01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:39,560 that that transparency in the front from 15 percent to 25 percent and as well as 1214 01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:44,440 having three and a half inch trim around the windows that's more consistent with 1215 01:58:44,440 --> 01:58:47,960 the bug bungalow and craftsman and in ranch style homes that you see in 1216 01:58:47,960 --> 01:58:53,840 Southeast Denton roofs should be gabled hipped or a combination thereof that 1217 01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:58,000 gabled is the is the point and then hipped are our roof lines that look like 1218 01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:02,080 this there are other modern roof lines that houses can have things like flat 1219 01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:06,880 roofs or mansard roofs but they aren't necessarily consistent with the with the 1220 01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:10,160 architectural character of Southeast Denton where you've got more craftsmen 1221 01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:16,120 bungalow and ranch style homes and then we are proposing that in addition to 1222 01:59:16,120 --> 01:59:19,840 all of that two of the following architectural details would be 1223 01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:24,840 required either dormers projection window like a bay window a split garage 1224 01:59:24,840 --> 01:59:30,320 doors so if you had a front-facing garage door a split sort of a this is 1225 01:59:30,320 --> 01:59:36,000 shown as the masonry column a railing or low wall enclosing the porch or stoop 1226 01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:43,040 and then either multi-pane or mission style windows on the front facade so 1227 01:59:43,040 --> 01:59:46,760 what would this apply to we talked about this and the Plains Zoning Commission 1228 01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:50,640 may remember a quite a bit of discussion we had about this over the summer and 1229 01:59:50,640 --> 01:59:56,440 fall is what should it apply to and and where staff has landed and what we're 1230 01:59:56,440 --> 02:00:01,480 proposing is that it would apply to all new construction so of that 60 acres if 1231 02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:05,280 if the property owner did want it to develop with with single-family homes or 1232 02:00:05,280 --> 02:00:10,120 homes on it it would it would have to comply with the regulations if approved 1233 02:00:10,120 --> 02:00:16,200 for expansions it's a maybe that you wouldn't have to change the front facade 1234 02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:20,040 if it didn't have a porch you wouldn't have to add a porch but that the route 1235 02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:24,320 the heights and the roof lines would would have to comply that way you still 1236 02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:28,680 get sort of that that same scale that you find in Southeast Denton and then 1237 02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:34,800 standard maintenance would not apply so that's the Southeast Denton residential 1238 02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:37,840 overlay now we're gonna talk about the height overlay this one's really simple 1239 02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:42,600 compared to that one so this is that area in blue if you recall that area in 1240 02:00:42,600 --> 02:00:48,000 blue has zoning of public facilities and mixed-use neighborhood public facilities 1241 02:00:48,000 --> 02:00:52,200 under current zoning can go up to a hundred feet and mixed-use neighborhood 1242 02:00:52,200 --> 02:01:00,000 can go up to 65 feet if if if it's not adjacent to residential zoning or if 1243 02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:03,600 it's adjacent to residential zoning and it gets a and the property owner gets 1244 02:01:03,600 --> 02:01:09,040 approval of a specific use permit we're proposing to cap that at 40 feet so and 1245 02:01:09,040 --> 02:01:14,960 and with no provision for additional height with an SUP so that way as as 1246 02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:20,720 you're moving from the east to the west or or the south to the north adjacent to 1247 02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:26,320 to these areas right here you would have the maximum building height in in the 1248 02:01:26,320 --> 02:01:31,840 residential and then gradually move up to the 40 feet and that way it wouldn't 1249 02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:38,600 the intent is not to have buildings just loom over the residential areas so with 1250 02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:44,200 that I'm gonna have Mia come up and go over the live work 1251 02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:51,280 thank you Julie Mia Hines senior planner good evening again chair members of the 1252 02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:55,960 Commission I am going to talk to you about the live work overlay portion of 1253 02:01:55,960 --> 02:02:00,640 what we are proposing this evening I start reminding you all just of the 1254 02:02:00,640 --> 02:02:06,160 action from the liver that references the live work overlay district to remind 1255 02:02:06,160 --> 02:02:10,600 you that the intent originally here was to establish a district that focused on 1256 02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:15,400 allowing small mom-and-pop retail such as bookstores toy shops coffee shops 1257 02:02:15,400 --> 02:02:20,240 things of that nature into a portion of a single-family home with a portion being 1258 02:02:20,240 --> 02:02:24,400 used as a resident simultaneously and I'll keep that have that at the top here 1259 02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:27,600 because what we are proposing is slightly different from that but the 1260 02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:31,920 intent of it and the reason behind why it's different I'll explain here in a 1261 02:02:31,920 --> 02:02:38,400 second so just Julie went over where we are talking about here but the live work 1262 02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:43,280 overlay essentially covers properties along East Prairie Street between the 1263 02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:48,480 cemetery and the railroad on the west side of Skinner Street and then 1264 02:02:48,480 --> 02:02:51,440 properties along the north and south side of Robertson Street as well as the 1265 02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:57,120 east and west side of Cook Street we have further subdivided this overlay into a 1266 02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:01,560 couple of different sections based on the fact of the existing the collection 1267 02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:05,600 of existing uses and some of the land use characteristics of the properties 1268 02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:11,280 as they exist today as well as what we have in shown in our future land use on 1269 02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:15,800 our future land use map as the future land use designations for these areas so 1270 02:03:15,800 --> 02:03:19,260 that section a as you can see is approximately six acres just along East 1271 02:03:19,260 --> 02:03:24,000 Prairie that is where you'll see that we're really trying to push for the 1272 02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:29,720 reestablishment of the historic business district that Julie mentioned and allow 1273 02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:34,440 for standalone businesses in that area section B is the has a moderate 1274 02:03:34,440 --> 02:03:39,200 residential designation so you'll see more of mixed missing middle housing 1275 02:03:39,200 --> 02:03:44,280 options available there and then section C is are really that low residential 1276 02:03:44,280 --> 02:03:49,200 future land use designation area that's really intended to serve as a transition 1277 02:03:49,200 --> 02:03:54,400 and just allow for live work and residential uses so I mentioned in the 1278 02:03:54,400 --> 02:03:58,080 action that what we're proposing is slightly different from what the the 1279 02:03:58,080 --> 02:04:04,480 language in the action leads us to propose and the reason for that is 1280 02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:08,440 because we we established the live work dwelling as a part of the area planning 1281 02:04:08,440 --> 02:04:13,000 process to come up with the sort of creative solution to reintegrate small 1282 02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:17,320 business opportunities into the southeastern area this area like you 1283 02:04:17,320 --> 02:04:21,400 said was identified as an area that historically had some small scale 1284 02:04:21,400 --> 02:04:26,160 neighborhood type of businesses within it and we were tasked with just coming 1285 02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:30,800 up with a creative solution and overlay to allow for businesses to be in this 1286 02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:36,600 area again the live work dwelling overlay was our approach to that with 1287 02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:40,520 the intent to hopefully start with the base of what a live work use is and then 1288 02:04:40,520 --> 02:04:45,080 work from that to establish some standards that work specifically for the 1289 02:04:45,080 --> 02:04:49,540 southeastern area well what we found when we looked further into how our DDC 1290 02:04:49,540 --> 02:04:54,520 defines the live work dwelling use is that we require that for live work 1291 02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:58,920 dwelling units the residential component should not exceed 50% the residential 1292 02:04:58,920 --> 02:05:02,160 component should be located above or behind the non-residential portion 1293 02:05:02,160 --> 02:05:05,520 residential dwelling unit must be a minimum of 400 square feet which is 1294 02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:08,960 pretty standard and the non-residential use should be owned and operated by a 1295 02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:15,640 resident of the of the residential portion and with that we found that in 1296 02:05:15,640 --> 02:05:21,440 trying to address or trying to implement this as a land use it sort of 1297 02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:27,000 contradicts what we have in the ICC and how that land use is defined in the ICC 1298 02:05:27,000 --> 02:05:31,440 which ultimately kicks it into some higher regulations and some restrictions 1299 02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:35,560 that ultimately defeats the purpose of why we were trying to integrate live 1300 02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:40,920 work as a use within this area which was to allow for the reuse of some of the 1301 02:05:40,920 --> 02:05:44,800 existing structures in that area and to really create more opportunities and 1302 02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:50,520 remove some remove barriers not add on additional barriers to allow for small 1303 02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:55,080 businesses to operate in this area. Mia sorry I'm not gonna butt in here just 1304 02:05:55,080 --> 02:06:00,680 for the benefit of the public yes can you define the acronyms there of IBC IFC 1305 02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:06,480 ICC yes apologies yes so ICC is the International Code Council and they are 1306 02:06:06,480 --> 02:06:12,920 essentially what our from building safety purposes what our building safety 1307 02:06:12,920 --> 02:06:17,720 team goes by to evaluate the safety of the structural safety of buildings 1308 02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:24,200 within our city the IBC stands for International Building Code the IFC is 1309 02:06:24,200 --> 02:06:28,520 International Fire Code and the IRC is International Residential Code and 1310 02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:32,040 basically depending on how what your use is and what what you are doing in that 1311 02:06:32,040 --> 02:06:36,800 building those different codes have different requirements and things that 1312 02:06:36,800 --> 02:06:40,440 you have to do to your building to make sure that it's structurally sound and 1313 02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:48,760 safe for that use. So we went back to the community and asked specifically what 1314 02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:54,320 types of small business opportunities would they like to see within the area 1315 02:06:54,320 --> 02:06:58,400 and what we heard from the community is shown here on your screen as far as 1316 02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:04,040 support for the uses the community was generally in support of restaurants 1317 02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:09,440 general retail personal service uses so those are your barbershops nail salons 1318 02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:14,600 and things of that nature daycare and child child care support excuse me was 1319 02:07:14,600 --> 02:07:19,400 something that we heard throughout the area planning process mobile food court 1320 02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:23,120 was a place for gathering essentially but there was some concerns about noise 1321 02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:26,880 and things of that nature so we have addressed that in this proposal as well 1322 02:07:26,880 --> 02:07:31,080 and then other uses like business or trade school professional office self 1323 02:07:31,080 --> 02:07:34,520 service laundry facility banks or financial institutions and medical 1324 02:07:34,520 --> 02:07:38,640 offices the community we're generally okay with just again at a neighborhood 1325 02:07:38,640 --> 02:07:47,960 scale. So with that in section A what we are proposing again with the 1326 02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:52,840 characteristic of the the mixed-use neighborhood future land use designation 1327 02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:56,600 the moderate residential there's some low-density residential in there we are 1328 02:07:56,600 --> 02:08:01,360 proposing to allow for some of the uses those uses that are listed in the above 1329 02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:07,720 to stand alone so what we have here and this is similar to what we see as the 1330 02:08:07,720 --> 02:08:12,000 table of allowed uses within the DDC this is essentially the table of allowed 1331 02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:17,080 uses for section A of the overlay so we are proposing to allow for those uses 1332 02:08:17,080 --> 02:08:23,360 that I mentioned earlier we would propose or we are proposing to implement 1333 02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:27,680 operational standards that would limit the hours of operation of businesses in 1334 02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:32,800 this area from Monday through Thursday 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. and then Friday through 1335 02:08:32,800 --> 02:08:39,520 Sunday 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. as far as architectural standards for new new 1336 02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:43,760 structures and new businesses they would have to apply to the residential 1337 02:08:43,760 --> 02:08:47,420 architectural standards that Julie mentioned as a part of the residential 1338 02:08:47,420 --> 02:08:51,720 overlay and then additionally any new business that locates within this area 1339 02:08:51,720 --> 02:08:57,960 would have to construct a 8 foot tall double face face fence or director 1340 02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:01,240 approved screening if there's like a line of trees or something like that 1341 02:09:01,240 --> 02:09:05,240 that's there that provides for adequate screening and then additionally a 15 1342 02:09:05,240 --> 02:09:10,000 foot wide landscape buffer between the non-residential use and the residential 1343 02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:14,560 use that's adjacent to it so those general standards do apply to this 1344 02:09:14,560 --> 02:09:18,600 section as well as the following two sections so keep those in mind hours of 1345 02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:22,720 operation architectural standards and landscape standards would apply to all 1346 02:09:22,720 --> 02:09:27,120 other sections this table and what we're proposing as standalone uses only 1347 02:09:27,120 --> 02:09:34,120 applies to section a additionally we are proposing land use specific standards 1348 02:09:34,120 --> 02:09:38,720 for these uses in section a for the most part these are simply I won't read 1349 02:09:38,720 --> 02:09:42,600 through all of them the details provided in your backup for the most part these 1350 02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:48,960 are max on the sizes that these uses can be again to maintain the neighborhood 1351 02:09:48,960 --> 02:09:55,920 scale and still opening up that use one of the other special use land use 1352 02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:59,600 specific standards is permitted hours of operations for daycares which would be 1353 02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:05,280 6 a.m. to 8 p.m. daily if you look back at the hours of operation limits that 1354 02:10:05,280 --> 02:10:09,560 we're placing on the area that is the earliest that you can drop off your kid 1355 02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:16,480 would be 8 a.m. we figured that 6 a.m. time window gives parents a little bit 1356 02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:20,080 more time in the morning to drop off kids while still respecting the later 1357 02:10:20,080 --> 02:10:25,000 hours of operations for the sake of the residents and then finally like I 1358 02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:28,600 mentioned earlier with the sort of contradiction of the live work dwelling 1359 02:10:28,600 --> 02:10:34,360 unit as a what we have in our DDC versus what's in the ICC we've proposed some 1360 02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:40,160 standards to sort of mitigate that to where a work live dwelling unit excuse 1361 02:10:40,160 --> 02:10:47,240 me simply defers to how the IRC IBC RFC defines it and then you have to meet 1362 02:10:47,240 --> 02:10:55,020 their requirements as far as building safety to ensure that that use can can 1363 02:10:55,020 --> 02:10:59,680 operate there as far as section B and this is just a property along Skinner 1364 02:10:59,680 --> 02:11:04,640 Street again we have that moderate residential future lanes designation so 1365 02:11:04,640 --> 02:11:11,460 with this one what we are proposing is to allow for those missing middle housing 1366 02:11:11,460 --> 02:11:17,000 types duplexes for plexus triplex is townhomes and again that work-live 1367 02:11:17,000 --> 02:11:20,980 restriction like I said if you look at the general standards that we have here 1368 02:11:20,980 --> 02:11:24,760 hours of operation architectural standards and landscape standards all of 1369 02:11:24,760 --> 02:11:30,040 those are the same for this portion of the overlay and then again that work 1370 02:11:30,040 --> 02:11:36,820 live dwelling unit just defers to the ICC and then finally in section C with 1371 02:11:36,820 --> 02:11:41,000 along Robertson Street this is more of the transitional area with low 1372 02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:46,120 residential and so this is essentially saying the same for the most part within 1373 02:11:46,120 --> 02:11:50,280 the overlay simply deferring to whatever that underlying zoning is as far as 1374 02:11:50,280 --> 02:11:56,760 permitted land uses and then allowing for that work live dwelling unit used to 1375 02:11:56,760 --> 02:12:03,080 again defer to the ICC and be constructed in accordance with architectural 1376 02:12:03,080 --> 02:12:10,040 standards and opera hours of operation of the rest of the live work overlay so 1377 02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:14,520 that pretty much concludes what we're proposing for the for those three 1378 02:12:14,520 --> 02:12:18,400 sections of this overlay with this project of course we did send out public 1379 02:12:18,400 --> 02:12:25,440 notification to the entire majority of the entire overlay as well as 200 fit 1380 02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:31,680 around it and 500 feet residents around it we received a few a couple of 1381 02:12:31,680 --> 02:12:36,200 responses in favor and 15 responses in opposition that were forwarded to this 1382 02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:44,800 body this afternoon with that staff is recommending approval of the southeast 1383 02:12:44,800 --> 02:12:49,280 in overlay district as it is consistent with the southeast didn't actions and 1384 02:12:49,280 --> 02:12:54,200 the criteria for approval in the DDC and I'm happy to stand for any questions I 1385 02:12:54,200 --> 02:12:57,520 did have a couple of frequently asked questions based on some of the calls 1386 02:12:57,520 --> 02:13:03,880 that we got from residents typically with us when what we've seen is we sent 1387 02:13:03,880 --> 02:13:07,240 out the notices and response and then people have called trying just because 1388 02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:11,240 the caption really can't answer everything that we try to explain here 1389 02:13:11,240 --> 02:13:14,840 so they've had questions about what the details of the case are and in talking 1390 02:13:14,840 --> 02:13:18,840 with them we've we come up with a list of frequently asked questions that we've 1391 02:13:18,840 --> 02:13:21,920 gotten and maybe I know we're probably about to hear from some people from the 1392 02:13:21,920 --> 02:13:27,120 audience but maybe could answer some of the questions that we might get this 1393 02:13:27,120 --> 02:13:31,720 evening so why is the city proposing this Julie kind of did a really good job 1394 02:13:31,720 --> 02:13:37,360 at introducing that into at the very beginning of this but essentially this 1395 02:13:37,360 --> 02:13:41,440 comes comes from the southeast in the area plan we are proposing this as a 1396 02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:45,440 result of the community engagement and the staff coordinated coordination to 1397 02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:50,640 implement several actions from that plan what is that plan Julie again did a good 1398 02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:55,560 job at sort of covering what that is but for the people in the as a reminder 1399 02:13:55,560 --> 02:14:00,960 this is a document which aims to rebuild trust between the city and the community 1400 02:14:00,960 --> 02:14:05,280 incorporate resident and stakeholder ideas and aspirations and provide 1401 02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:09,800 recommendations for strategies and implementable action steps to address 1402 02:14:09,800 --> 02:14:13,920 resident concerns encourage investment in the community while minimizing 1403 02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:20,280 displacement and providing guidance for future land decisions is the city taking 1404 02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:24,800 property and southeast didn't know that this is not a part of that is not a part 1405 02:14:24,800 --> 02:14:30,160 of what this proposal is we are proposing this again as a result of the 1406 02:14:30,160 --> 02:14:34,000 feedback that we've heard from the community essentially to add 1407 02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:38,800 regulations to enhance the existing base zoning districts and if this is approved 1408 02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:43,800 it will impact how private property owners can develop in Southeast didn't 1409 02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:51,400 but again this is not the city taking or appropriating private property 1410 02:14:51,400 --> 02:14:56,200 similarly we are not planning to we are not building homes as a part of this 1411 02:14:56,200 --> 02:15:02,040 designation the purpose of this again is to implement the area plan which 1412 02:15:02,040 --> 02:15:06,760 includes the protections of the architectural character so essentially 1413 02:15:06,760 --> 02:15:10,480 sets regulations for people who are interested in building homes in 1414 02:15:10,480 --> 02:15:14,920 Southeast didn't for those to look similar to what we already see in 1415 02:15:14,920 --> 02:15:20,120 Southeast didn't will the overlay district allow multifamily no the said 1416 02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:25,560 southeast residential overlay district regulates building design and height it 1417 02:15:25,560 --> 02:15:30,720 does but does not allow higher density residential uses the small section of 1418 02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:34,840 the South work Southeast didn't live work overlay district which does have 1419 02:15:34,840 --> 02:15:39,560 moderate residential as a future lanes designation does allow for more of those 1420 02:15:39,560 --> 02:15:44,800 missing middle housing types like townhomes duplexes and triplexes but 1421 02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:50,080 again that is not multifamily that is a completely different use there and then 1422 02:15:50,080 --> 02:15:53,440 finally will the southeast didn't overlay district increase traffic 1423 02:15:53,440 --> 02:15:58,720 essentially the district doesn't isn't proposing to develop property like I've 1424 02:15:58,720 --> 02:16:03,560 said in some of these answer they make the rules for private property owners to 1425 02:16:03,560 --> 02:16:08,900 follow nevertheless didn't is growing and so traffic is increasing everywhere 1426 02:16:08,900 --> 02:16:12,720 including Southeast didn't so we want to keep in mind that you know property 1427 02:16:12,720 --> 02:16:16,540 private property owners have the right to develop their property in accordance 1428 02:16:16,540 --> 02:16:21,280 with the regulations the latest regulations of things as didn't grows 1429 02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:27,100 traffic will grow but we try our best in ways to mitigate that as much as 1430 02:16:27,100 --> 02:16:33,960 possible sorry there are two more one other question I noticed that the 1431 02:16:33,960 --> 02:16:38,720 overlay district didn't include all of the Southeast didn't area why well that 1432 02:16:38,720 --> 02:16:43,560 was decided on in the area plan process and is specifically called out for the 1433 02:16:43,560 --> 02:16:47,080 specific subject areas that we've approached today or that we propose 1434 02:16:47,080 --> 02:16:50,800 today and then finally how does Southeast in the residential overlay 1435 02:16:50,800 --> 02:16:55,960 impact the an existing home if you do not intend to tear down your home 1436 02:16:55,960 --> 02:17:02,400 rebuild it or add on to it too much it should not impact you basically this 1437 02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:09,280 regulation is intended to apply to new primary or accessory structures and only 1438 02:17:09,280 --> 02:17:15,720 the height limit and roof forms applied to expansion of existing structures and 1439 02:17:15,720 --> 02:17:19,560 regular maintenance of like facade and general things for your residential 1440 02:17:19,560 --> 02:17:25,000 property are exempted from that so that that now concludes our presentation and 1441 02:17:25,000 --> 02:17:31,880 happy to stand for any questions you have Julie is also to my left questions 1442 02:17:31,880 --> 02:17:39,120 thank you Mia I will open the public hearing at this time Commission it's a 1443 02:17:39,120 --> 02:17:45,240 lot to work through I'll just ask for specific questions of staff at this time 1444 02:17:45,240 --> 02:17:49,320 for anything that that we want to kind of get out there so that the public as 1445 02:17:49,320 --> 02:17:54,160 they come to speak can understand and respond to those things before we hear 1446 02:17:54,160 --> 02:17:59,240 from them is there anything on that order commissioner catches it so if 1447 02:17:59,240 --> 02:18:04,560 somebody wanted to do some home rehab or updates would they have to comply with 1448 02:18:04,560 --> 02:18:13,200 this overlay no all existing homes would be conforming under this even if the 1449 02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:17,680 front facade did not include all of those elements in the proposed overlay 1450 02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:21,240 the only thing that would apply is if they were going to add like maybe a 1451 02:18:21,240 --> 02:18:27,040 second story then or change the roof line we are proposing that that height 1452 02:18:27,040 --> 02:18:34,600 limitation applied any expansions as well as the roof line okay any other 1453 02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:44,880 questions Julie I have a few I'm gonna be that guy 1454 02:18:45,280 --> 02:18:53,120 going through the southeast Stanton area plan gentrification is mentioned in 1455 02:18:53,120 --> 02:18:59,400 several places that's a word that people think of different things when they see 1456 02:18:59,400 --> 02:19:06,200 that word can you describe to us what the community conversations were about 1457 02:19:06,200 --> 02:19:11,120 that and what aspects of gentrification were most concerning there was concern 1458 02:19:11,120 --> 02:19:17,000 about gentrification and displacement throughout the area planning process you 1459 02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:23,400 know it it starts fundamentally from from the events of Quaker town and the 1460 02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:28,360 forced displacement of the residents of Quaker town and that that concern has 1461 02:19:28,360 --> 02:19:34,320 has has stayed with the residents that as a very traumatic event for the 1462 02:19:34,320 --> 02:19:43,320 community so so we're so that is kind of that basis additionally you know every 1463 02:19:43,320 --> 02:19:47,400 year everyone's taxes go up or neighborhoods change we've had a lot of 1464 02:19:47,400 --> 02:19:54,200 demographic changes in southeast Stanton so a lot is changing and and and so 1465 02:19:54,200 --> 02:19:59,920 where the discussion landed is we wanted to to have a plan that encouraged 1466 02:19:59,920 --> 02:20:04,720 actions that would allow anyone who wanted to live in southeast and could 1467 02:20:04,720 --> 02:20:10,240 live there stay there stay in their homes but you know make sure that there 1468 02:20:10,240 --> 02:20:16,840 are affordable options so as part of this this the the residential overlay 1469 02:20:16,840 --> 02:20:21,240 was intended that if if if somebody wanted to build a new home in southeast 1470 02:20:21,240 --> 02:20:26,400 Stanton that it should look like it fits there and and now that was was 1471 02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:30,880 important from what we heard from the community and so that's why we wanted to 1472 02:20:30,880 --> 02:20:38,440 take this forward as quickly as possible thank you and maybe I'm the dense one 1473 02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:44,400 here can you just give us a brief clear definition of what gentrification is for 1474 02:20:44,400 --> 02:20:49,960 those purposes we're on the same page I don't know if there is a one-size-fits-all 1475 02:20:49,960 --> 02:20:55,520 definition of gentrification but but there are several facets and things that 1476 02:20:55,520 --> 02:21:00,960 we talked about as part of the area plan so there are there's gentrification when 1477 02:21:00,960 --> 02:21:04,400 it terms of you just can't afford to live in your house anymore right either 1478 02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:09,440 either the real estate values are so expensive your kids can't buy a house 1479 02:21:09,440 --> 02:21:14,440 there or the property taxes are so high that it really does price people out of 1480 02:21:14,440 --> 02:21:17,960 their neighborhoods so that's one part and that's a really big part it's 1481 02:21:17,960 --> 02:21:22,760 challenging to tackle that and we're so we are there is an there is there are 1482 02:21:22,760 --> 02:21:29,040 parts of the area plan that do talk about that part of that 53 actions 1483 02:21:29,040 --> 02:21:33,760 there's also just just changes in the neighborhood where really it does 1484 02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:39,080 physically change that that kind of just doesn't look doesn't look the way it did 1485 02:21:39,080 --> 02:21:46,360 it so it changes from a fundamentally and spatially aspect in that respect the 1486 02:21:46,360 --> 02:21:50,640 residential overlay can assist that because if if there are new structures 1487 02:21:50,640 --> 02:21:58,520 in southeastern that they would continue what what is existing but when one 1488 02:21:58,520 --> 02:22:03,280 definition is really hard to do I appreciate that because I would hate to 1489 02:22:03,280 --> 02:22:08,640 try to summarize that but what I'm hearing primarily is displacement 1490 02:22:08,640 --> 02:22:17,320 economic displacement or forced displacement as well as building 1491 02:22:17,320 --> 02:22:23,240 intensity and feel of of the architectural continuity is that kind of 1492 02:22:23,240 --> 02:22:30,280 the and demographic change yes yeah I would for the purposes of this area 1493 02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:33,760 plan those are the elements we looked at in terms of gentrification thank you 1494 02:22:33,760 --> 02:22:42,280 very much a couple brief things the can you speak to I believe there's both a 1495 02:22:42,280 --> 02:22:48,080 senior homestead exemption which the city offers as well as the tax freeze 1496 02:22:48,080 --> 02:22:54,000 which was voted in by voters seven years ago maybe sorry I'm not great in 1497 02:22:54,000 --> 02:22:59,480 remembering number of years it's my understanding that those taxes or those 1498 02:22:59,480 --> 02:23:04,840 two elements would both afford a property property tax discount to those 1499 02:23:04,840 --> 02:23:10,000 sixty-five or older as well as fix their property taxes to a dollar value so they 1500 02:23:10,000 --> 02:23:14,460 would not increase as valuations change is that correct that is correct for over 1501 02:23:14,460 --> 02:23:26,520 sixty-five okay and I think that's it commissioner McDade thank you chair I 1502 02:23:26,520 --> 02:23:31,960 had a couple questions regarding your presentation trying to find did you find 1503 02:23:31,960 --> 02:23:41,680 any one architectural design in Southeast Denton that could be was there any one 1504 02:23:41,680 --> 02:23:45,720 architect that ever came and designed anything in Southeast Denton we have not 1505 02:23:45,720 --> 02:23:50,240 found that we may find that as we continue on with our research our 1506 02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:54,880 historic research of Southeast Denton and the future of cult the future cultural 1507 02:23:54,880 --> 02:24:00,200 district for Southeast Denton but at this point we were looking less about the 1508 02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:07,160 architects or or or who built them and more just what the form is at this point 1509 02:24:07,160 --> 02:24:14,960 a few more questions so a clarification to on the height building in the blue 1510 02:24:14,960 --> 02:24:21,200 area and the height overlay district are you saying that no three-story buildings 1511 02:24:21,200 --> 02:24:27,960 or structures would be allowed in the blue area so the proposed 40 feet could 1512 02:24:27,960 --> 02:24:37,240 allow a three-story building within it so it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily cap 1513 02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:42,800 it at that it would have to it would be whatever whatever a person could develop 1514 02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:49,240 up to 40 feet but it wouldn't it would it would allow three stories it's 1515 02:24:49,240 --> 02:24:55,480 possible you possible and maybe maybe I don't know if you could get four stories 1516 02:24:55,480 --> 02:24:58,720 out of it but three stories you could you could get would take you there 1517 02:24:58,720 --> 02:25:08,040 another question regarding the live work overlay are there any existing live work 1518 02:25:08,040 --> 02:25:14,600 areas in Southeast Denton or in the small area no what we found is that just 1519 02:25:14,600 --> 02:25:19,760 the use in general live work use there isn't any across the city because 1520 02:25:19,760 --> 02:25:24,520 speculatively most likely because of the the challenge of how it's defined in the 1521 02:25:24,520 --> 02:25:31,360 DDC versus how it's defined in for ICC and then would bars be allowed in that 1522 02:25:31,360 --> 02:25:36,960 area no restaurants would be and they could serve alcohol but they would it 1523 02:25:36,960 --> 02:25:41,920 would have to be less than a certain percentage of their menu sales so 1524 02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:50,720 restaurants can but no not bars and then in this area do any of the owners of the 1525 02:25:50,720 --> 02:25:55,920 property live in this current existing area now that own the property there in 1526 02:25:55,920 --> 02:26:04,560 this area so are there owner-occupied and that there are a few yes there are a 1527 02:26:04,560 --> 02:26:10,520 few on East Prairie just I think a handful along East Prairie in the 1528 02:26:10,520 --> 02:26:16,400 properties along Skinner are undeveloped and then there is a I want to say was 1529 02:26:16,400 --> 02:26:21,360 about 50/50 owner-occupied in the Robertson cook Street area do you recall 1530 02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:27,200 if you had any input from those owners for that area not specifically I do not 1531 02:26:27,200 --> 02:26:32,840 recall receiving any letters and then regarding the small area plan that has 1532 02:26:32,840 --> 02:26:37,000 already been proved by council and which is your what you're using as your 1533 02:26:37,000 --> 02:26:44,400 working document who were the members of that committee for the small area plan 1534 02:26:44,400 --> 02:26:50,560 I could pull that up real quick I do not have the list but yes I could pull that 1535 02:26:50,560 --> 02:26:55,760 up the steering committee the area plan steering committee small area the 1536 02:26:55,760 --> 02:27:00,600 southeast end small area planning yeah we could get like okay you don't have to 1537 02:27:00,600 --> 02:27:05,680 go get it right now if you can look it up for me and I apologize folks but the 1538 02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:09,680 other question was are there and I'm glad you brought up about the tax 1539 02:27:09,680 --> 02:27:15,760 exemption so there are seniors in the southeast den area who are already 1540 02:27:15,760 --> 02:27:21,720 receiving property tax exemptions due to them even before all of this or was that 1541 02:27:21,720 --> 02:27:31,680 included in the small area plan the senior in the tax freeze so the over 65 1542 02:27:31,680 --> 02:27:36,880 exemption has been in place in Denton for I don't I don't remember when it 1543 02:27:36,880 --> 02:27:43,260 passed but it's it's it's fairly new in Denton but it it predates the area plan 1544 02:27:43,260 --> 02:27:48,880 it wasn't necessarily a part of this it's it's just something that residents 1545 02:27:48,880 --> 02:27:55,400 over 65 homeowners over 65 can avail themselves of it's available and then a 1546 02:27:55,400 --> 02:28:01,120 clarification you mentioned that there were approximately 60 acres of land 1547 02:28:01,120 --> 02:28:09,640 available for development in southeast in yes let me let me go back to that so 1548 02:28:09,640 --> 02:28:15,960 yes there's actually 70 acres about 70 acres of privately owned land in in 1549 02:28:15,960 --> 02:28:20,560 southeast end ten of those are undevelopable just because of floodplain 1550 02:28:20,560 --> 02:28:33,520 issues but but yes everything in green is is undeveloped and then they did you 1551 02:28:33,520 --> 02:28:41,040 find any historical designations in Southeast Denton I think we I think 1552 02:28:41,040 --> 02:28:47,360 Cameron said that there aren't any locally designated they do have signage 1553 02:28:47,360 --> 02:28:52,920 again that's something part of the plan that we are we are working toward working 1554 02:28:52,920 --> 02:28:57,200 with the community to see who if if someone would like to designate their 1555 02:28:57,200 --> 02:29:02,440 property and to to help them through that process thank you very much sure 1556 02:29:02,440 --> 02:29:07,400 thank you and I'll just thank the the Commission for remaining true to my 1557 02:29:07,400 --> 02:29:12,000 request of asking questions that everybody can hear the answers to it 1558 02:29:12,000 --> 02:29:15,720 instead of dipping into deliberation at this point a few more people to speak 1559 02:29:15,720 --> 02:29:24,040 Commissioner Kettresett I have a couple of questions the first one is are there 1560 02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:30,140 any limitations on like demolition any anything that will hold off while we look 1561 02:29:30,140 --> 02:29:36,720 at things maybe for rehab purposes there are no limitations on on demolition so 1562 02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:42,800 someone could demolish their home but if it's approved if they wanted to build 1563 02:29:42,800 --> 02:29:47,040 rebuild it would have to be in accordance with the with the regulations 1564 02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:55,880 okay and then I also have a live work question so on the daycare it's the 1565 02:29:55,880 --> 02:30:00,240 officer from six to eight does that that seems pretty limiting for people that 1566 02:30:00,240 --> 02:30:04,640 might do shift work and need daycare for night because these are home daycares 1567 02:30:04,640 --> 02:30:13,600 correct like that would be the so why would we limit that good question so in 1568 02:30:13,600 --> 02:30:20,040 general all non-residential uses we're proposing to limit them to a closing 1569 02:30:20,040 --> 02:30:24,840 time of 8 p.m. on weekdays so that's kind of just where that closing time fell 1570 02:30:24,840 --> 02:30:31,480 into place we did think about just in general the need for an or earlier drop 1571 02:30:31,480 --> 02:30:43,320 off and basically trying to main have that balance of wanting to be as as 1572 02:30:43,320 --> 02:30:48,120 flexible as possible without you know it was still respecting later hours of 1573 02:30:48,120 --> 02:30:51,600 operation for their residences but we could look into that if that's the will 1574 02:30:51,600 --> 02:31:00,440 of the Commission as a modification to this Commissioner Dyer I think Hillary 1575 02:31:00,440 --> 02:31:05,280 will appreciate this um you were talking about the 65 and older exemptions I 1576 02:31:05,280 --> 02:31:09,760 would just like to say that none of us are property tax experts here so we have 1577 02:31:09,760 --> 02:31:15,160 to be very careful on you know the advice that we're given because I don't 1578 02:31:15,160 --> 02:31:21,760 really feel like some of that was accurate I am in I am in the industry 1579 02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:26,960 and it's Texas codes on their property taxes is very confusing so I went to 1580 02:31:26,960 --> 02:31:35,240 Denton CAD just to clarify and that basically when you turn 65 it's effective 1581 02:31:35,240 --> 02:31:39,280 January 1st of any year in which he or she turned 65 or purchases a residence 1582 02:31:39,280 --> 02:31:44,920 after they are already 65 or older every school district is required to exempt up 1583 02:31:44,920 --> 02:31:49,240 to 60,000 of the assessed value and to place a free ceiling on the their tax 1584 02:31:49,240 --> 02:31:53,800 amount other jurisdictions in Denton County can elect to give an optional 1585 02:31:53,800 --> 02:31:58,760 over 65 exemption and Denton County has elected to place a free ceiling on all 1586 02:31:58,760 --> 02:32:04,240 accounts with an over 65 exemption so it's really just on the school tax it 1587 02:32:04,240 --> 02:32:08,800 doesn't always apply to your city or your county tax and that's why it's 1588 02:32:08,800 --> 02:32:12,080 always very important to protest your property values every year when 1589 02:32:12,080 --> 02:32:18,600 assessments come out in April to try to keep up and lower your tax assessments 1590 02:32:19,520 --> 02:32:24,400 anything else no that I just want to make sure because that was the whole 1591 02:32:24,400 --> 02:32:27,600 thing is very confusing I know there was a lot of discussion about that no I 1592 02:32:27,600 --> 02:32:32,720 appreciate that thank you Commissioner McDuff yes and Commissioner Dyer I 1593 02:32:32,720 --> 02:32:36,840 thought you were going to talk about apartments and that we had too many but 1594 02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:43,800 I will address me is miss Hines comment on middle housing and could you talk 1595 02:32:43,800 --> 02:32:48,280 about that and what that means we're talking about new development I think I 1596 02:32:48,280 --> 02:32:56,840 believe in these overlays yes new builds so the missing middle is what we is a 1597 02:32:56,840 --> 02:33:01,480 term that we use to cut sort of lump in like duplexes triplexes forplexes town 1598 02:33:01,480 --> 02:33:07,080 home so those are the the more dense housing options that are available than 1599 02:33:07,080 --> 02:33:12,040 just single-family residential but not not multifamily which we classify as up 1600 02:33:12,040 --> 02:33:18,200 to I believe five or more units on one single lot so what we are proposing as a 1601 02:33:18,200 --> 02:33:23,100 portion of the live work overlay dwelling which which has a future land use 1602 02:33:23,100 --> 02:33:28,400 designation of moderate residential to allow for a slightly higher density than 1603 02:33:28,400 --> 02:33:33,520 the rest of the area is to allow for that missing middle I will say in full 1604 02:33:33,520 --> 02:33:38,840 transparency one of the tracks in there is zone MN so multifamily could be 1605 02:33:38,840 --> 02:33:43,400 permitted there but the way that the properties are surrounded it would have 1606 02:33:43,400 --> 02:33:49,160 to ensure access proper access through a zoning district that does allow for 1607 02:33:49,160 --> 02:33:55,440 multifamily and majority of those properties result are seven so it's what 1608 02:33:55,440 --> 02:33:59,960 we are proposing as a part of this does not propose to allow for multifamily as 1609 02:33:59,960 --> 02:34:04,160 a an additional use but it does propose to allow for triplexes forplexes and 1610 02:34:04,160 --> 02:34:08,120 duplexes and it doesn't necessarily restrict multifamily where it's already 1611 02:34:08,120 --> 02:34:13,520 permitted either well I just know that's been a ongoing concern in district one 1612 02:34:13,520 --> 02:34:21,080 and we're now we're concerned in Denton about too many apartments thank you Mia 1613 02:34:21,080 --> 02:34:27,320 thank you I don't see any more speakers on the board before we hear from from 1614 02:34:27,320 --> 02:34:32,240 the public I'll just ask Charlie not to call you out do you feel confident to 1615 02:34:32,240 --> 02:34:37,920 speak on some of the property tax and exemption rules as you're coming up I'll 1616 02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:43,480 just say I want to make sure we get this very clear it yes I I agree that's the 1617 02:34:43,480 --> 02:34:47,280 the statement from the Denny count Ninton County it's my understanding that 1618 02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:52,240 the school district is required by the state to freeze over 65 that Denton 1619 02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:58,160 County has frozen their portion and that the city of Denton has also elected to 1620 02:34:58,160 --> 02:35:01,840 freeze their portion is that yeah that's correct the city also has property tax 1621 02:35:01,840 --> 02:35:09,720 freeze on over 65 okay any other and that's why it's very confusing yes and 1622 02:35:09,720 --> 02:35:14,000 so that's why you just have to be very careful and make sure that you clearly 1623 02:35:14,000 --> 02:35:18,000 understand what your tax bill saying yeah no absolutely agree I don't want to 1624 02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:22,040 get the impression that what we're speaking of here would apply to any other 1625 02:35:22,040 --> 02:35:27,560 jurisdictions county or cities we're really just looking at this this overlay 1626 02:35:27,560 --> 02:35:32,680 that's within the city of Denton thank you for that clarification okay this is 1627 02:35:32,680 --> 02:35:39,400 a public hearing I have one card wishing to speak so I will pull this up first 1628 02:35:39,400 --> 02:35:47,160 miss Francis punch if you'd like to come forward state your name and address and 1629 02:35:47,160 --> 02:35:55,160 you'll have four minutes good evening I'm Francis punch I live at 2002 1630 02:35:55,160 --> 02:36:02,600 Busteria Street Denton Texas thank you to the staff who has worked so hard on 1631 02:36:02,600 --> 02:36:10,280 this this is not an easy task and you asked who was a part of the advisory 1632 02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:16,520 group I was one of the members I was one of the members and I came tonight and 1633 02:36:16,520 --> 02:36:23,720 was quite frankly irritated because a lot of the people was confused they 1634 02:36:23,720 --> 02:36:31,620 didn't know really what are we voting on and but I think you got ahead of a lot 1635 02:36:31,620 --> 02:36:39,600 a lot of my questions by asking the put placing the questions at the end thank 1636 02:36:39,600 --> 02:36:47,280 you thank you for that I still do have a couple of concerns if the residents can't 1637 02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:56,720 afford the changes that required changes what happens Airbnb's or being built in 1638 02:36:56,720 --> 02:37:06,900 communities like these and will there be a limit of Airbnb's and should be a 1639 02:37:06,900 --> 02:37:12,720 limit it if our new policy hasn't been amended and I thank you for answering 1640 02:37:12,720 --> 02:37:20,520 the questions about the taxes so because those remind big three big questions 1641 02:37:20,520 --> 02:37:29,680 thank you can they answer can they answer my questions yes I don't see any 1642 02:37:29,680 --> 02:37:33,200 questions from the committee but yeah Julie if you'd like to address those 1643 02:37:33,200 --> 02:37:40,600 thank you I'll start the answer but I probably won't finish it um okay in 1644 02:37:40,600 --> 02:37:43,600 terms of affordability that was something that was on our mind and in 1645 02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:47,120 fact the Planning and Zoning Commission kind of kind of helped guide that 1646 02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:51,960 discussion because there were concerns about what are the costs of front 1647 02:37:51,960 --> 02:37:56,200 porches because our original proposal was if you expand your property more 1648 02:37:56,200 --> 02:38:01,160 than 50% you have to comply with everything but after doing after talking 1649 02:38:01,160 --> 02:38:08,640 with builders and and some some other contractors and understanding how just 1650 02:38:08,640 --> 02:38:12,880 how expensive doing something like putting a front porch on or a or a 1651 02:38:12,880 --> 02:38:18,480 window we we we took that out of it because we felt like it just didn't also 1652 02:38:18,480 --> 02:38:24,240 meet our affordability standards and in terms of affordability of the other 1653 02:38:24,240 --> 02:38:30,000 items so if you were going to build from the ground up we did try to look at 1654 02:38:30,000 --> 02:38:35,840 different options in those in those architectural features to to provide a 1655 02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:43,360 choice based upon budgeting or a really personal style and so that was that was 1656 02:38:43,360 --> 02:38:50,080 the intent to have some choices there and then Airbnb is 1657 02:38:50,080 --> 02:39:00,560 hi Angie minglers assistant planning director just to speak a little bit 1658 02:39:00,560 --> 02:39:05,640 about Airbnb's and short-term rentals generally the southeast Denton overlays 1659 02:39:05,640 --> 02:39:09,360 that we're talking about tonight don't necessarily amend any of those adopted 1660 02:39:09,360 --> 02:39:12,320 provisions but just wanted to remind everybody of what we do have in place 1661 02:39:12,320 --> 02:39:18,360 for STR's so those were that a portion of our code was amended a little over a 1662 02:39:18,360 --> 02:39:22,840 year ago maybe closer to a year and a half at this point the city of Denton in 1663 02:39:22,840 --> 02:39:27,080 residentially zoned areas which predominantly is the area we're 1664 02:39:27,080 --> 02:39:34,600 discussing this evening citywide has a cap of 1,000 short-term rental units in 1665 02:39:34,600 --> 02:39:39,160 residential areas in addition to that property to property they cannot be 1666 02:39:39,160 --> 02:39:43,720 closer than 100 feet from one another so if I have one my neighbor would likely 1667 02:39:43,720 --> 02:39:47,880 be prohibited but maybe two houses down could have one in residential areas only 1668 02:39:47,880 --> 02:39:52,840 in our commercially zoned areas in our mixed-use areas it's slightly different 1669 02:39:52,840 --> 02:39:58,520 where those distance separation requirements do not apply but any given 1670 02:39:58,520 --> 02:40:02,040 multifamily development would be capped at no more than ten percent of their 1671 02:40:02,040 --> 02:40:06,760 overall units so we have that generally and the city is committed to evaluating 1672 02:40:06,760 --> 02:40:11,440 that on an ongoing basis but it isn't necessarily a part of this overlay 1673 02:40:11,440 --> 02:40:20,280 discussion thank you this is a public hearing so anyone who would like to come 1674 02:40:20,280 --> 02:40:28,280 down and share their thoughts is perfectly willing to please sorry for 1675 02:40:28,280 --> 02:40:36,720 the sake of mobility oh nevermind well sorry yeah I have two cards it's 1676 02:40:36,720 --> 02:40:41,760 confusing on the color so I apologize but yeah are you one of these white 1677 02:40:41,760 --> 02:40:55,560 cards yes are you in favor or do you oppose this plan are you in favor or do 1678 02:40:55,560 --> 02:40:59,640 you oppose the plan yeah sorry just so we have it on the on the record if you 1679 02:40:59,640 --> 02:41:08,720 could come back up and answer the Commissioner's question quite frankly I 1680 02:41:08,720 --> 02:41:14,680 was waiting to hear the rest of the discussion to make my decision because I 1681 02:41:14,680 --> 02:41:19,680 think a lot of people think they understand but I think it would provide 1682 02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:27,520 clarity if we had things side-by-side and say it was this and now it's this 1683 02:41:27,520 --> 02:41:34,120 because when you go you use a lot of acronyms that we don't know I may know 1684 02:41:34,120 --> 02:41:40,520 they don't know and they think they know but they don't really get all the 1685 02:41:40,520 --> 02:41:48,240 details they just don't get it so I'm holding my vote but thank you thank you 1686 02:41:48,240 --> 02:41:53,600 looks like we have one more question I'd like to ask a follow-up question ma'am 1687 02:41:53,600 --> 02:41:57,680 well because you said you were on the committee I like to discuss all this 1688 02:41:57,680 --> 02:42:01,600 correct correct yes and thank you for that thank you for having that input do 1689 02:42:01,600 --> 02:42:06,300 you feel like a lot of your concerns your suggestions during that process was 1690 02:42:06,300 --> 02:42:12,640 really listened to and you can see a lot of them implemented in in the plan that 1691 02:42:12,640 --> 02:42:19,280 Julie and Mia shared during the process I am the consultants and we yes I 1692 02:42:19,280 --> 02:42:25,920 thought they listened I thought they came back with them with revisions that's 1693 02:42:25,920 --> 02:42:31,840 why I was surprised I said what's being what's now being revised what was wrong 1694 02:42:31,840 --> 02:42:37,440 with the original plan but I see definitely the height definitely the 1695 02:42:37,440 --> 02:42:44,400 height I see that I'm a little confused still with the mixed use and always 1696 02:42:44,400 --> 02:42:54,040 creates pause but so yes I do think that we they listened and did best that the 1697 02:42:54,040 --> 02:43:01,840 best they could with the limitations okay thank you thank you Mr. Willie 1698 02:43:01,840 --> 02:43:06,520 Sellers if you'd like to come up state your name and address and you'll have 1699 02:43:06,520 --> 02:43:12,960 four minutes thank you yes Willie Sellers 930 Scott Drive Den Texas I would 1700 02:43:12,960 --> 02:43:17,960 like to know why is this section of then being targeted for this type of 1701 02:43:17,960 --> 02:43:25,420 development also I know you've set a standard for the developers that are 1702 02:43:25,420 --> 02:43:34,120 coming in you know the 30 feet height on the houses and stuff like that also you 1703 02:43:34,120 --> 02:43:39,000 had some things we're gonna have a tremendous parking problem with anything 1704 02:43:39,000 --> 02:43:43,160 that you bring in I know you're talking about Skinner because you already have 1705 02:43:43,160 --> 02:43:48,880 existing homes across the street on Skinner I know you're talking about the 1706 02:43:48,880 --> 02:43:53,840 area that's next to Morrison Mills so if you have that area right there you can 1707 02:43:53,840 --> 02:43:59,000 only come so far out and then you got to accommodate parking for your tenants or 1708 02:43:59,000 --> 02:44:05,240 for the individuals that are using the mix use what is that work live work work 1709 02:44:05,240 --> 02:44:09,520 live of one of those things and you also have a church around the street around 1710 02:44:09,520 --> 02:44:16,320 the corner there their hours are they have hours and church is held all the 1711 02:44:16,320 --> 02:44:21,120 time and then these people are going to be there 24/7 you know trying to make 1712 02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:24,960 money with their business so it's going to interrupt the church services etc 1713 02:44:24,960 --> 02:44:31,280 whatever you know they don't only meet on Sunday choir rehearsal prayer meeting 1714 02:44:31,280 --> 02:44:40,120 Bible study etc and I have one other question who are the stakeholders I heard 1715 02:44:40,120 --> 02:44:44,200 that term mentioned stakeholders so I would think the stakeholders would be 1716 02:44:44,200 --> 02:44:49,880 the individuals that are living so are you talking about the people that may buy 1717 02:44:49,880 --> 02:44:53,480 the property or the people that's going to develop the property so those are the 1718 02:44:53,480 --> 02:44:57,680 stakeholders or are you talking about the individuals that's actually going to 1719 02:44:57,680 --> 02:45:07,120 be there 24/7 all right I noticed I noticed that you mentioned the area on 1720 02:45:07,120 --> 02:45:12,000 shady shores that would be an ideal problem I mean place for any development 1721 02:45:12,000 --> 02:45:18,440 because UPS is gone the shingle place is gone and that would be an ideal place 1722 02:45:18,440 --> 02:45:22,800 for anything else over there I know it's in the red and the red was targeted 1723 02:45:22,800 --> 02:45:31,520 that's uh yeah that's shady shores okay anything else is going to be an impact 1724 02:45:31,520 --> 02:45:37,280 to the community based on the fact that we're going to have a parking problem 1725 02:45:37,280 --> 02:45:44,080 you're going to have traffic right now if you try to navigate coming up Prairie 1726 02:45:44,080 --> 02:45:48,120 Street right there I think that's Locust coming back in again the street right 1727 02:45:48,120 --> 02:45:51,800 here those apartments are sitting here those apartments sitting there you have 1728 02:45:51,800 --> 02:45:56,280 to drive in the middle of the street when you exit that street are you coming 1729 02:45:56,280 --> 02:46:00,680 straight across if there's a car coming and that you get that you're going to 1730 02:46:00,680 --> 02:46:03,880 introduce that same problem because we already have that problem at the corner 1731 02:46:03,880 --> 02:46:08,680 of Bradshaw and Prairie Street now where you put the four you put the four-way 1732 02:46:08,680 --> 02:46:13,400 stop there and the people that live there already they parked their car right 1733 02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:19,080 in the mouth of Prairie Street so when you come up to stop you're literally 1734 02:46:19,080 --> 02:46:26,440 sitting in the middle of the street and I can see a lot of problems until you 1735 02:46:26,440 --> 02:46:35,640 address the parking situation to their affairs this is going to be a cluster of 1736 02:46:35,640 --> 02:46:41,520 a mess because everybody has anywhere from three two and a half to three cars 1737 02:46:41,520 --> 02:46:47,680 and I'm talking about mom pop and maybe one kid has a car so you're gonna that's 1738 02:46:47,680 --> 02:46:53,120 going to be a total congestion because none of those their affairs can address 1739 02:46:53,120 --> 02:46:59,160 navigating me through there safely already so I can see us having a problem 1740 02:46:59,160 --> 02:47:04,280 I mean I'm not in an opposition of development or improvement to southeast 1741 02:47:04,280 --> 02:47:09,240 in but I think that we need to revisit some of the other opalescence that may 1742 02:47:09,240 --> 02:47:23,800 occur due to the increase and bringing additional development in thank you okay 1743 02:47:23,800 --> 02:47:28,960 let's just go one by one I think that'll be clearer if you could come Julie and 1744 02:47:28,960 --> 02:47:35,640 address the specifics that I heard about were parking how that's regulated and 1745 02:47:35,640 --> 02:47:40,760 maybe Mia you want to jump in I don't know as well as the stakeholders in the 1746 02:47:40,760 --> 02:47:48,280 public engagement so stakeholders that we we we had a few groups residents so 1747 02:47:48,280 --> 02:47:52,360 people who lived in Southeast Denton property owners who maybe own property 1748 02:47:52,360 --> 02:47:58,760 in Southeast and but don't necessarily live there and then also churchgoers or 1749 02:47:58,760 --> 02:48:03,440 other other folks who visit Southeast Denton on a regular basis and those are 1750 02:48:03,440 --> 02:48:09,120 really the kind of the groups we we try to talk to as much as possible so that 1751 02:48:09,120 --> 02:48:18,240 that's really the group we identified as stakeholders in terms of of parking me I 1752 02:48:18,240 --> 02:48:24,320 might want to talk about the live work as far as residential we did not as part 1753 02:48:24,320 --> 02:48:28,000 of this proposal touch our parking requirements so single-family 1754 02:48:28,000 --> 02:48:34,440 residential and in the city of Denton requires four parking spaces for for each 1755 02:48:34,440 --> 02:48:40,520 dwelling so and this would not change that if if you did build a home in 1756 02:48:40,520 --> 02:48:50,040 Southeast and you'd still have to comply with those regulations and then just to 1757 02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:53,440 adjust parking for the non-residential uses that are proposed as part of the 1758 02:48:53,440 --> 02:48:58,560 live work we do have that they they need to adhere to whatever they have to 1759 02:48:58,560 --> 02:49:04,760 supply parking on site if it's a new non-residential use so ideally we would 1760 02:49:04,760 --> 02:49:09,640 like we would like to see that like an existing home transform transforms its 1761 02:49:09,640 --> 02:49:13,680 structure into like a bookstore a small retail store something like that the 1762 02:49:13,680 --> 02:49:20,920 home itself could be I think like 1200 square feet which might for retail be a 1763 02:49:20,920 --> 02:49:27,280 parking ratio of like one per 300 one per 350 which would be just under four 1764 02:49:27,280 --> 02:49:32,880 spaces I believe essentially with this overlay what we are proposing that even 1765 02:49:32,880 --> 02:49:37,600 if the the ratio makes it so that you can do under four spaces you have to 1766 02:49:37,600 --> 02:49:42,280 provide at least four spaces on site for your parking lot so it's even an 1767 02:49:42,280 --> 02:49:46,200 increase from what we have with the current and a lot of the the the 1768 02:49:46,200 --> 02:49:49,360 residences the current single-family situation that just has a narrow 1769 02:49:49,360 --> 02:49:54,400 driveway with maybe two or three spaces on the on the lot and then I did look up 1770 02:49:54,400 --> 02:49:58,800 our full steering committee list it is for anyone interested in our in the 1771 02:49:58,800 --> 02:50:03,880 actual plan itself for everyone who was on the steering committee we have 1772 02:50:03,880 --> 02:50:12,840 Alexandria Valdez Raymond Redmond Reverend Reginald Logan Clifton Maxfield 1773 02:50:12,840 --> 02:50:19,760 Jacob Moses miss Francis punch Paul Juarez Howard Clark and Cherica Campbell 1774 02:50:19,760 --> 02:50:29,920 we're all stakeholder or steering committee members thank you I have a card 1775 02:50:29,920 --> 02:50:42,640 from mr. Donald McDade would you like to just be good afternoon Commission my 1776 02:50:42,640 --> 02:50:50,200 name is Donald McDade I live at 926 East Prairie in Texas and before I get into 1777 02:50:50,200 --> 02:50:56,640 the logistics I just want to say I look at the goal that you have and I really 1778 02:50:56,640 --> 02:51:02,640 wish you would take out goal number one like you're saying rebuild trust you 1779 02:51:02,640 --> 02:51:09,000 cannot rebuild something that was never there in the first place 1780 02:51:09,680 --> 02:51:14,240 Southeast Denton has been around what a hundred and something years and if it 1781 02:51:14,240 --> 02:51:21,800 takes 2026 to start building that trust that's embarrassing it's disrespectful 1782 02:51:21,800 --> 02:51:27,640 now heard y'all heard you talk about gentrification I'll go back to the trust 1783 02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:33,160 I don't think the fear of gentrification would be as high as the city not I think 1784 02:51:33,160 --> 02:51:39,920 it was 2009 come in here and rezone Southeast Ding and not involve these 1785 02:51:39,920 --> 02:51:47,480 people they had no idea until the project was already started that scares 1786 02:51:47,480 --> 02:51:53,760 anybody so I don't understand how you're gonna try to rebuild something that you 1787 02:51:53,760 --> 02:51:58,240 didn't want them to know about and now you're coming to him saying hey we made 1788 02:51:58,240 --> 02:52:03,120 a mistake that mistake is a hundred years old stop putting lipstick on that 1789 02:52:03,120 --> 02:52:09,560 pig because there's still a pig okay take it out also before I thought I mean 1790 02:52:09,560 --> 02:52:16,240 I don't have an issue with what we're doing as far as the overlay I just don't 1791 02:52:16,240 --> 02:52:19,960 want to I'm happy with the houses that they're gonna build I just don't want to 1792 02:52:19,960 --> 02:52:24,560 see any eyesores like we have on cross timbers and mill and wood and McKinney 1793 02:52:24,560 --> 02:52:33,480 any other house I can deal with the other issue is a lot I lost train of 1794 02:52:33,480 --> 02:52:42,240 thought here on my last thing I have an issue that I want to see if we can get 1795 02:52:42,240 --> 02:52:49,440 it corrected before we leave today and that's in the the live work a these 1796 02:52:49,440 --> 02:52:54,640 prairie between the railroad and Oakwood Cemetery I would love to see that 1797 02:52:54,640 --> 02:53:01,000 between the railroad and the DCTA track because when you go on the east side of 1798 02:53:01,000 --> 02:53:06,920 prairie those are resident that's a residential area I don't want these 1799 02:53:06,920 --> 02:53:10,800 people living in fear that something may come because you've already pushed it 1800 02:53:10,800 --> 02:53:15,880 out to the cemetery these they're homeowners you have the west the west 1801 02:53:15,880 --> 02:53:21,840 side of prairie you can do whatever you want with that but I don't want these 1802 02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:26,160 residents living in fear because you have something in here that that may or 1803 02:53:26,160 --> 02:53:31,240 may not happen let's take that out of their mind right now and let's change 1804 02:53:31,240 --> 02:53:38,560 let's amend the what is I don't have said the SED LWL at least the man number 1805 02:53:38,560 --> 02:53:46,120 a and just leave it from there from the railroad track to the DCA track also I 1806 02:53:46,120 --> 02:53:52,920 know that the three years that I spent on planning and zoning after what had 1807 02:53:52,920 --> 02:53:56,880 already been done the South East didn't I knew I could I couldn't save it I was 1808 02:53:56,880 --> 02:54:01,480 here for one reason and one reason only that was to keep these people informed 1809 02:54:01,480 --> 02:54:06,560 that what the city was actually trying to do in South East didn't I knew I 1810 02:54:06,560 --> 02:54:10,440 wasn't going to succeed but they had a right to know that's something that they 1811 02:54:10,440 --> 02:54:13,680 never had we've had a lot of I hate to say it we had a lot of poor 1812 02:54:13,680 --> 02:54:21,680 representation in district one we did we voted for a lot of people who didn't 1813 02:54:21,680 --> 02:54:25,840 have our best interests at heart and we've always been used to being stabbed 1814 02:54:25,840 --> 02:54:30,760 in the back but what's gonna get us now is when y'all turn around and find out 1815 02:54:30,760 --> 02:54:35,240 who was holding that knife that's what's really gonna upset you because there's 1816 02:54:35,240 --> 02:54:43,040 people who look like us who was holding the knife thank you mr. McDade I think 1817 02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:48,920 sorry I have one question just so I'm clear on the concerns first of all thank 1818 02:54:48,920 --> 02:54:52,560 you for being that conduit to the community to make sure your your 1819 02:54:52,560 --> 02:54:56,960 neighbors really understand what's happening I appreciate that but on your 1820 02:54:56,960 --> 02:55:02,480 concerns with the live work it's my understanding from statements before 1821 02:55:02,480 --> 02:55:06,600 that we don't actually have any of those uses now so it's hard to envision what 1822 02:55:06,600 --> 02:55:11,760 that would be my understanding is it would conform to the architectural 1823 02:55:11,760 --> 02:55:15,740 standards that we're putting in place so it would largely that the building 1824 02:55:15,740 --> 02:55:22,560 itself would look like a home typical in the area but it might have a sign I'm 1825 02:55:22,560 --> 02:55:26,880 looking at you know the main commercial hub uses of offices schools daycare I 1826 02:55:26,880 --> 02:55:36,360 mean that's fine if it's from the the regular railroad track to the DCA track 1827 02:55:36,360 --> 02:55:41,440 that I mean that that's commercial already they push the boundary all the 1828 02:55:41,440 --> 02:55:46,920 way down to oakwood cemetery yeah yeah let's take that out of the equation and 1829 02:55:46,920 --> 02:55:53,480 just focus on right I guess my my question is you know we've heard things 1830 02:55:53,480 --> 02:55:57,880 about parking we've heard things about height and other things is there a 1831 02:55:57,880 --> 02:56:04,560 particular aspect of those proposed uses that is most concerning to you or the 1832 02:56:04,560 --> 02:56:13,320 community members you've spoken to not really because it's hard to talk about 1833 02:56:13,320 --> 02:56:17,800 that when you don't really know what's coming I can say to him say well you know 1834 02:56:17,800 --> 02:56:21,740 if it's gonna be you know a barbershop they don't need they don't need that 1835 02:56:21,740 --> 02:56:27,600 much parking but until that is actually built that's when the concern is gonna 1836 02:56:27,600 --> 02:56:32,280 happen so I mean I don't want to go hypothetical and not knowing what's 1837 02:56:32,280 --> 02:56:35,880 gonna be built there so I really that's about the best answer I can give you 1838 02:56:35,880 --> 02:56:41,000 that until that's built then we can come back and have that conversation fair 1839 02:56:41,000 --> 02:56:52,280 enough I appreciate that I have I appreciate you reminding me that we'll 1840 02:56:52,280 --> 02:56:58,720 make sure to hit that I have one more card wishing to perhaps wishing to speak 1841 02:56:58,720 --> 02:57:08,680 mr. Donald Cox if you'd like to speak you're welcome to come down if you 1842 02:57:08,680 --> 02:57:13,040 state your name and address you'll have four minutes 1843 02:57:13,040 --> 02:57:23,480 good afternoon my name is dr. Donald Cox I live at 913 Cole Avenue I don't have a 1844 02:57:23,480 --> 02:57:32,680 question I just have a concern starting in 19 well I don't live in southeast 1845 02:57:32,680 --> 02:57:40,360 Denton I have been very involved with what goes on in that department that 1846 02:57:40,360 --> 02:57:51,080 community I'm starting back in 1979 I have been very active with youth 1847 02:57:51,080 --> 02:57:58,840 activities and periodically we have secured facilities none residential 1848 02:57:58,840 --> 02:58:07,760 facilities for those operations based on the time limit that you gave or that is 1849 02:58:07,760 --> 02:58:16,360 before you that would have curtailed some of our activities in the 8 o'clock 1850 02:58:16,360 --> 02:58:23,500 would not work kids get out of school by the time they got over to us it would 1851 02:58:23,500 --> 02:58:36,000 generally be around 6 so and so we would often it would not be unusual for us to 1852 02:58:36,000 --> 02:58:44,160 function until 9 930 it was so they could get home by 10 o'clock except in 1853 02:58:44,160 --> 02:58:50,600 the summer when we would go even later under your proposed plan that would not 1854 02:58:50,600 --> 02:58:58,400 work we have recently I have recently been looking at reviving some of those 1855 02:58:58,400 --> 02:59:07,880 activities again this won't stop me from doing it but I would appreciate if you 1856 02:59:07,880 --> 02:59:17,800 would revisit that or put some kind of something in play that would allow us 1857 02:59:17,800 --> 02:59:25,080 not to break the law by functioning after the closing hours that's all I 1858 02:59:25,080 --> 02:59:33,520 have to ask thank you thank you mr. Cox actually I have one follow-up just just 1859 02:59:33,520 --> 02:59:40,520 so we all are aware as you speak to the types of facilities and activities that 1860 02:59:40,520 --> 02:59:48,480 you've done elsewhere I suppose for those purposes can you describe what 1861 02:59:48,480 --> 02:59:52,200 what those activities were and whether they were indoor or outdoor I think that 1862 02:59:52,200 --> 02:59:56,800 would help our staff respond to that a little bit more clear it to what you're 1863 02:59:56,800 --> 03:00:03,760 talking about it included a lot of things from individual activities like 1864 03:00:03,760 --> 03:00:15,640 tutoring recreational activities mostly indoor things the outdoor activities 1865 03:00:15,640 --> 03:00:25,280 took place elsewhere on a regular basis and if you know I can't really put them 1866 03:00:25,280 --> 03:00:32,360 down into we did everything you name it we did it I should take this 1867 03:00:32,360 --> 03:00:38,640 opportunity to say one of your fellow members at 16 years old was one of the 1868 03:00:38,640 --> 03:00:50,320 participants call any names but she has to be smiling right now very good thank 1869 03:00:50,320 --> 03:01:02,120 you very much your legacy is present yes that was all I don't see any other 1870 03:01:02,120 --> 03:01:07,240 questions that's all the cards I have but like I said I think there was one 1871 03:01:07,240 --> 03:01:15,560 more person may be willing to speak come on up my apologies for the low chairs 1872 03:01:25,000 --> 03:01:33,760 name is Willie Hudson I live at 623 Newton Street can you move the slides to 1873 03:01:33,760 --> 03:01:57,960 a to one of the pictures that shows the County Jail and Thomas Rivera school 1874 03:02:04,080 --> 03:02:24,040 is that the drain area right in between okay that's good in about 2005 I believe 1875 03:02:24,040 --> 03:02:31,400 that's when they widened that this Creek area here 1876 03:02:33,800 --> 03:02:36,800 or the cursor 1877 03:02:36,800 --> 03:02:53,080 okay how can I indicate where the Creek is 1878 03:02:53,080 --> 03:03:03,040 well the area that I'm concerned about as I said 2005 they widen they meaning 1879 03:03:03,040 --> 03:03:08,880 the city widened that drainage area and 1880 03:03:14,360 --> 03:03:36,560 this area is widened the Creek areas was widened and I was told that the reason 1881 03:03:36,560 --> 03:03:43,520 that they widen it so that the water would flow would it not mean a 1882 03:03:43,520 --> 03:03:52,880 restrictions but now the silt and silting has taken place and dirt is now 1883 03:03:52,880 --> 03:03:58,320 back in the Creek and I've requested that they do what they said they would 1884 03:03:58,320 --> 03:04:04,400 do they would clean it out in five years ago but no one's been out there yet to 1885 03:04:04,400 --> 03:04:09,200 clean that drainage area out I don't know that this is the place to bring 1886 03:04:09,200 --> 03:04:18,520 that up but if we're planning for that area I have property there and I own the 1887 03:04:18,520 --> 03:04:23,040 part of the Creek area bright that's behind my house but I can't do anything 1888 03:04:23,040 --> 03:04:31,240 to it it's an easement area the city has the right to not allow things to be 1889 03:04:31,240 --> 03:04:39,200 built there so that it wouldn't impede the water but I can't get anybody over 1890 03:04:39,200 --> 03:04:44,440 there and I've talked to the park department several times to clean that 1891 03:04:44,440 --> 03:04:54,840 area out so that now when it rains it's on my property way much larger area of 1892 03:04:54,840 --> 03:05:01,760 my property is flooded because of the dirt that is in that Creek area so if 1893 03:05:01,760 --> 03:05:08,680 you're talking about developing Southeast Denton well I'm just one 1894 03:05:08,680 --> 03:05:12,640 homeowner that's concerned about that Creek area but I own quite a bit of it 1895 03:05:12,640 --> 03:05:19,440 and I haven't gotten any help with trying to get keep it cleaned out now 1896 03:05:19,440 --> 03:05:25,680 it's a it's an area that I would like to develop and continue developing my 1897 03:05:25,680 --> 03:05:33,080 homeowner my home in that area but I need to know what is the plan if any to 1898 03:05:33,080 --> 03:05:39,000 deal with that area that's being filled in with dirt now that was removed several 1899 03:05:39,000 --> 03:05:49,200 years ago thank you I'll just say I will take it upon myself if I'm still here on 1900 03:05:49,200 --> 03:05:59,520 this board when the citywide stormwater plan comes to us to make sure that that 1901 03:05:59,520 --> 03:06:03,640 issue is is addressed I think there's there's a number of different ways to 1902 03:06:03,640 --> 03:06:08,440 to address stormwater and I'll be looking for for a plan to keep those 1903 03:06:08,440 --> 03:06:18,320 maintained anybody else who would like to speak is welcome to come down yes 1904 03:06:19,520 --> 03:06:23,840 if you'd state your name and address you'll have four minutes 1905 03:06:23,840 --> 03:06:28,000 Zalinda P. Graham 1501 Val Verde according I just have one question 1906 03:06:28,000 --> 03:06:31,960 because I think everything's been addressed that I was concerned about but 1907 03:06:31,960 --> 03:06:39,560 I think it was Mia that said that 15 people voted no do you know what the 1908 03:06:39,560 --> 03:06:59,020 reasons were they for this proposal well it wasn't you okay please yes so the 1909 03:06:59,020 --> 03:07:04,720 majority of the response letters did not have really a reason but there there 1910 03:07:04,720 --> 03:07:08,760 was I know there was one that that was concerned about changes to the property 1911 03:07:08,760 --> 03:07:18,440 without without how was it said changes to the property without consultation 1912 03:07:18,440 --> 03:07:22,640 from the property owner because he had lived in Southeast Denton for 57 years 1913 03:07:22,640 --> 03:07:29,600 and was concerned so but the others there weren't any real specific reasons 1914 03:07:29,600 --> 03:07:39,400 as to why if I recall correctly okay Commissioner Dyer Julie sorry so kind of 1915 03:07:39,400 --> 03:07:43,240 going back to that because I noticed was that Leona Franklin who had that 1916 03:07:43,240 --> 03:07:50,480 concern so I I know that you guys did so many different events and did mailers 1917 03:07:50,480 --> 03:07:55,000 and did surveys and all this stuff and I think you said that there was like five 1918 03:07:55,000 --> 03:08:01,480 or six hundred participants that you had was that all different people or were 1919 03:08:01,480 --> 03:08:04,680 you just telling the people that you talked to so some of them could have been 1920 03:08:04,680 --> 03:08:11,000 repeated because I just came to multiple events I would imagine we do have some 1921 03:08:11,000 --> 03:08:17,200 repeats in there but we with the area plan we tried a variety of ways because 1922 03:08:17,200 --> 03:08:23,700 because when we first started the first series of listening sessions we really 1923 03:08:23,700 --> 03:08:31,600 had a very specific you know an older community member and primarily homeowner 1924 03:08:31,600 --> 03:08:35,080 community member and we wanted to branch that out so we actually did 1925 03:08:35,080 --> 03:08:39,360 additional to make sure that we hit all the demographics we want to get younger 1926 03:08:39,360 --> 03:08:45,600 people and and families and so so that was really important in the plan so we 1927 03:08:45,600 --> 03:08:52,680 tried to do a variety of ways so we did do the you know the the standard postcard 1928 03:08:52,680 --> 03:08:56,280 and then we also did things like intercept surveys where we essentially 1929 03:08:56,280 --> 03:09:02,000 stood in the community where people were going to be and and tried to talk to the 1930 03:09:02,000 --> 03:09:07,720 community members we were really successful on pop-ups at Juneteenth as 1931 03:09:07,720 --> 03:09:11,880 well as national night out talking to parents as they're picking up their kids 1932 03:09:11,880 --> 03:09:19,360 at MLK going to set in the meetings so we we tried to get creative to make sure 1933 03:09:19,360 --> 03:09:26,280 that we talked to people who wouldn't normally sit in a postcard to to the to 1934 03:09:26,280 --> 03:09:31,320 the city and then and then for the block party we actually kind of retooled we 1935 03:09:31,320 --> 03:09:34,960 thought about we're like okay how do we get more we started putting on door 1936 03:09:34,960 --> 03:09:40,680 hangers on the door so for these community meetings we put door hangers on 1937 03:09:40,680 --> 03:09:46,440 on residence doors and then we also mailed postcards to properties maybe it 1938 03:09:46,440 --> 03:09:50,200 wasn't unoccupied or it wasn't developed because we wanted to get here from 1939 03:09:50,200 --> 03:09:57,880 everybody we also Spanish speakers we we made sure that we had everything 1940 03:09:57,880 --> 03:10:04,640 translated into Spanish as well as had someone at the meeting to translate if 1941 03:10:04,640 --> 03:10:08,960 that was necessary so we tried to we tried to him all we probably didn't get 1942 03:10:08,960 --> 03:10:13,720 everybody we could have gotten but we yeah well obviously it's so hard to get 1943 03:10:13,720 --> 03:10:17,840 everybody but I'm you know I'm going to ask kind of a difficult question and I 1944 03:10:17,840 --> 03:10:21,080 don't know that you can provide an answer but you know hearing a couple 1945 03:10:21,080 --> 03:10:25,680 people having concerns about you know past distrust and and things like that 1946 03:10:25,680 --> 03:10:29,380 and some of the concerns tonight like do you feel like you got a good 1947 03:10:29,380 --> 03:10:33,720 representation of feedback do you feel like hearing some of the concerns you 1948 03:10:33,720 --> 03:10:39,120 need to go back and kind of get some more or do you feel like you really got 1949 03:10:39,120 --> 03:10:46,920 a good sampling of the community with the recommendations that you know you 1950 03:10:46,920 --> 03:10:51,180 and the staff have all made you me and the staff well I'll start it and Haley 1951 03:10:51,180 --> 03:10:57,480 may jump in and but so the southeast end area plan we had you know we really had 1952 03:10:57,480 --> 03:11:01,680 good coverage we talked to a lot of folks but but as you keep coming back 1953 03:11:01,680 --> 03:11:08,040 you it kind of gets less and less and so for instance our community meetings last 1954 03:11:08,040 --> 03:11:14,280 fall we're not very well attended so we we kind of felt like we were at a point 1955 03:11:14,280 --> 03:11:18,320 that everybody who was going to give us feedback had provided that information 1956 03:11:18,320 --> 03:11:24,160 to us but we're always willing to hear more so and I don't know if Haley wanted 1957 03:11:24,160 --> 03:11:33,120 to correct me or add anything said yeah okay thank you I guess to follow up on 1958 03:11:33,120 --> 03:11:40,000 that I saw one of your slides that said there was like a 14% response rate or 1959 03:11:40,000 --> 03:11:49,800 something yeah I got the percentage wrong I got it's 16% my recollection is 1960 03:11:49,800 --> 03:11:54,600 you know if you look at like local election turnout in this area it's 1961 03:11:54,600 --> 03:12:00,840 typically sub 10% so it seems like through this process we were able to to 1962 03:12:00,840 --> 03:12:04,880 hear from even more than the number of people who typically vote is that 1963 03:12:04,880 --> 03:12:10,960 accurate well we talked with other members of the city especially looking at 1964 03:12:10,960 --> 03:12:15,380 what kind of responses did they have for the community survey and they got a 1965 03:12:15,380 --> 03:12:20,160 response rate of 9 to 11 percent so I felt like we were within that ballpark 1966 03:12:20,160 --> 03:12:25,160 on that I looked at survey monkey to to see like what they said you should do and 1967 03:12:25,160 --> 03:12:30,000 they said anywhere between 10 and 30 percent is good of course a higher 1968 03:12:30,000 --> 03:12:37,480 percentage is always better thank you just to follow up on a couple of 1969 03:12:37,480 --> 03:12:48,800 questions from the public there was one about the community services use for for 1970 03:12:48,800 --> 03:12:54,640 some young members of the community and whether the hours at 8 p.m. would be the 1971 03:12:54,640 --> 03:12:59,760 limiting factor or whether we have other provisions in the code to allow that is 1972 03:12:59,760 --> 03:13:04,720 that something we can clear up not as it is currently proposed if they if that 1973 03:13:04,720 --> 03:13:10,360 user their operations would be operating out of a non-residential building in 1974 03:13:10,360 --> 03:13:16,540 this area then they would be restricted to those if it were at like American 1975 03:13:16,540 --> 03:13:19,800 Legion or MLK or something like that then they would just be restricted to 1976 03:13:19,800 --> 03:13:24,620 whatever those hours operations are so I'm not sure where but we're I'm happy 1977 03:13:24,620 --> 03:13:28,840 to get some more information from that individual to see what we can if we can 1978 03:13:28,840 --> 03:13:35,420 propose something that might help okay and then there was there was also an 1979 03:13:35,420 --> 03:13:44,600 additional item from sorry from mr. Sellers that I had in my brain and now 1980 03:13:44,600 --> 03:13:50,360 I've let it why targeting the area exactly so I can I can set up an answer 1981 03:13:50,360 --> 03:13:55,360 and then maybe can see if Julie or Haley wants to correct me so the southeast 1982 03:13:55,360 --> 03:14:00,200 in area plan as a as an area plan was was a recommendation that came out of 1983 03:14:00,200 --> 03:14:05,440 the broader comprehensive plan to with of many areas of the city including the 1984 03:14:05,440 --> 03:14:11,240 northeastern area and the downtown area to lock in on because we as a city have 1985 03:14:11,240 --> 03:14:16,720 experienced some development interest in those areas so we know that they're 1986 03:14:16,720 --> 03:14:20,320 either they're sensitive areas because of the existing land use context or in 1987 03:14:20,320 --> 03:14:25,520 this case because of the culture and the history and the the sort of current 1988 03:14:25,520 --> 03:14:31,920 zoning as it's situated now and some of the things that we've heard or concerns 1989 03:14:31,920 --> 03:14:39,880 from the areas these plans were attempted to get a full understanding a 1990 03:14:39,880 --> 03:14:42,960 comprehensive understanding of what those concerns are for this area and 1991 03:14:42,960 --> 03:14:47,240 then adopt a plan that allowed us to deal with the development interest that 1992 03:14:47,240 --> 03:14:53,000 we've been seeing around those areas in a way that meets the community's needs 1993 03:14:53,000 --> 03:14:57,120 and vision for those areas so Southeast didn't is is one of those areas that was 1994 03:14:57,120 --> 03:15:01,120 identified by the comp plan and which is a policy direction from council that's 1995 03:15:01,120 --> 03:15:06,280 why it was that that area plan is was adopted and we took on that process and 1996 03:15:06,280 --> 03:15:09,280 then that's why this is this is an action out of that area plan that's why 1997 03:15:09,280 --> 03:15:15,400 it's before you this evening thank you this is a public hearing would anyone 1998 03:15:15,400 --> 03:15:23,080 else like to come down and speak you're welcome to I'm not an auctioneer but 1999 03:15:23,080 --> 03:15:29,480 once twice thrice yes come on down 2000 03:15:29,480 --> 03:15:38,680 grant glass 1121 Hill Street in Texas so this is the first notification I've 2001 03:15:38,680 --> 03:15:44,560 gotten about anything that we have going on here right now so we have the 40 2002 03:15:44,560 --> 03:15:50,960 engagement opportunities did did you guys send this or did you guys send this 2003 03:15:50,960 --> 03:15:55,960 who sent this one yeah I can address that so so the the people on the 2004 03:15:55,960 --> 03:16:01,120 Commission with the exception of the two next to me are residents of the city 2005 03:16:01,120 --> 03:16:05,960 who've been appointed by City Council to serve on this board so luckily we're not 2006 03:16:05,960 --> 03:16:10,880 in charge of doing those important items because we may not follow through on 2007 03:16:10,880 --> 03:16:16,080 things but the people who you've heard present the various applications those 2008 03:16:16,080 --> 03:16:23,240 are city staff that that do the sending of the notifications okay so in the in 2009 03:16:23,240 --> 03:16:27,640 the process of everything that's going on if we were to give a percentage of 2010 03:16:27,640 --> 03:16:34,360 this is how close we're being we're done to being finished where are we right now 2011 03:16:34,360 --> 03:16:39,160 that's a great question whoever wants to take that it's been a while since I 2012 03:16:39,160 --> 03:16:46,680 looked at the implementation chart I know we're marching down toward that so 2013 03:16:46,680 --> 03:16:53,600 the area plan is is a 10-year plan with most of the action items really were 2014 03:16:53,600 --> 03:16:57,480 kind of short-term to get them done as quickly as possible in terms of 2015 03:16:57,480 --> 03:17:03,160 percentage complete we are still working on all the items but we're working on a 2016 03:17:03,160 --> 03:17:07,880 variety of them so for example the neighborhood empowerment zone our 2017 03:17:07,880 --> 03:17:12,720 community services is working on that our our engineering and transportation 2018 03:17:12,720 --> 03:17:17,640 folks are working on some of those pieces of it planning zoning is is kind 2019 03:17:17,640 --> 03:17:21,840 of in our wheelhouse so that's what we're working on so it's there's a lot 2020 03:17:21,840 --> 03:17:28,520 of different pieces all kind of working right now but it it is it is a long-range 2021 03:17:28,520 --> 03:17:35,960 plan so and the long-range plan set that policy tonight we're doing that that 2022 03:17:35,960 --> 03:17:42,400 zoning that law which which is support which is consistent with that policy in 2023 03:17:42,400 --> 03:17:52,760 it thank you Commissioner Kettreson is there a place people can go see that so 2024 03:17:52,760 --> 03:17:57,920 the area plan is online you can just Google Southeast Denton area plan and 2025 03:17:57,920 --> 03:18:01,440 it'll it'll come up you can look at not only the document but we also have a 2026 03:18:01,440 --> 03:18:06,300 dashboard on Invisio that shows everything the the staff members 2027 03:18:06,300 --> 03:18:11,080 provide updates on a quarterly basis of what what's been what's been happening so 2028 03:18:11,080 --> 03:18:17,600 you can look at both of those things just Google thank you this is a public 2029 03:18:17,600 --> 03:18:26,360 hearing anyone else wishing to speak I yes I'm sorry yes Commissioner McDade 2030 03:18:26,360 --> 03:18:33,680 Julie we have another question referring to that the question from the the 2031 03:18:33,680 --> 03:18:37,520 gentleman that just spoke I think we were trying to get some type of timeline 2032 03:18:37,520 --> 03:18:42,320 as far as the date so when did the small area plan start and finish and then when 2033 03:18:42,320 --> 03:18:51,200 did this plan start and finish thank you thank you so the small area plan the 2034 03:18:51,200 --> 03:18:59,120 kicked off in March of 2023 and so we went through all of that public 2035 03:18:59,120 --> 03:19:06,000 engagement and then ultimately to counsel for approval in 2024 as part of 2036 03:19:06,000 --> 03:19:10,760 that plan and the implementation it had that 53 items we started immediately 2037 03:19:10,760 --> 03:19:15,020 working on how are we gonna work plan all of these items because I believe it 2038 03:19:15,020 --> 03:19:21,220 was Commissioner Pruitt who said come you get these done so so we started 2039 03:19:21,220 --> 03:19:28,640 working on those we started working on these overlays in earnest the December 2040 03:19:28,640 --> 03:19:35,120 of 2024 with I know from the residential and then I believe also with Mia just 2041 03:19:35,120 --> 03:19:38,880 doing the research like doing that windshield surveys and looking to see 2042 03:19:38,880 --> 03:19:44,080 what those things are or what's in the community and and that any historical 2043 03:19:44,080 --> 03:19:48,760 knowledge and then we and then we really started talking with the community about 2044 03:19:48,760 --> 03:19:53,920 the overlays with the block party in March 2025 2045 03:19:53,920 --> 03:20:04,880 I'm sorry so the part of the question was so tonight what we have tonight and 2046 03:20:04,880 --> 03:20:10,680 what it will go to council next is there anything tonight from what you've heard 2047 03:20:10,680 --> 03:20:16,320 that would make you a staff want to go back and change or modify anything mr. 2048 03:20:16,320 --> 03:20:21,080 hud's best comment about the drainage is that something that we can put in this 2049 03:20:21,080 --> 03:20:28,220 plan to address the drainage and then also mr. McDade's comment about can you 2050 03:20:28,220 --> 03:20:33,760 move the line from East Prairie to West Prairie I was trying to follow that I'm 2051 03:20:33,760 --> 03:20:37,840 not real good with maps but I was trying to see understand what he was talking 2052 03:20:37,840 --> 03:20:42,160 about is there things today that are available to do some of those type of 2053 03:20:42,160 --> 03:20:46,800 things to address them today in the plan I'll leave that part up to Mia in terms 2054 03:20:46,800 --> 03:20:54,520 of your first question oh the drainage so as part of the area plan there is a 2055 03:20:54,520 --> 03:20:58,600 section about infrastructure which includes some drainage drainage 2056 03:20:58,600 --> 03:21:02,380 improvements because we actually did hear with the area planning process that 2057 03:21:02,380 --> 03:21:06,160 there were concerns about drainage and that makes sense because there is the 2058 03:21:06,160 --> 03:21:11,040 the the floodplain that kind of cuts through Southeast Denton so that is that 2059 03:21:11,040 --> 03:21:15,920 is part of it it's not part of this specific thing because these were are 2060 03:21:15,920 --> 03:21:22,400 just the the development regulations in the in terms of zoning but it is 2061 03:21:22,400 --> 03:21:26,320 certainly something that we will talk with our drainage folks and and see 2062 03:21:26,320 --> 03:21:32,560 where they are and see you know what the next steps would be in terms of moving 2063 03:21:32,560 --> 03:21:42,840 forward with those and then I'll bring me then in terms of the live work overlay 2064 03:21:42,840 --> 03:21:47,280 boundaries currently where where we are proposing is what was approved with the 2065 03:21:47,280 --> 03:21:53,280 area plan as far as the the the limits of those general boundaries I had not 2066 03:21:53,280 --> 03:22:00,160 heard that particular concern before so we hadn't considered amending the 2067 03:22:00,160 --> 03:22:04,920 boundary of the live work overlay but if that is the the of course the direction 2068 03:22:04,920 --> 03:22:10,520 of this body we can consider that with our recommendation to council I didn't 2069 03:22:10,520 --> 03:22:15,840 want to get clarification I suppose if that if that's the case of where he was 2070 03:22:15,840 --> 03:22:23,200 referring to I think this is there is there are two railroad train or tracks 2071 03:22:23,200 --> 03:22:30,400 here I believe this is one right here and then this one is the this one is the 2072 03:22:30,400 --> 03:22:34,920 other one so is this just the area that you were referring and then everything 2073 03:22:34,920 --> 03:22:38,640 else you would like to see removed from the 2074 03:22:49,000 --> 03:23:12,680 these here again yeah I'll leave that to the Commission to consider see if that's 2075 03:23:12,680 --> 03:23:16,680 the direction she want to take I'll just add just one note for the live work piece 2076 03:23:16,680 --> 03:23:23,120 of it just this is this is a these proposed uses are providing the 2077 03:23:23,120 --> 03:23:27,480 opportunity it's not saying that any of those homes would would have to convert 2078 03:23:27,480 --> 03:23:32,600 to any of those businesses so if there are currently property owners that are 2079 03:23:32,600 --> 03:23:37,360 currently living in those homes they of course have the option of remaining that 2080 03:23:37,360 --> 03:23:41,240 remaining homes until they wish to do something else with it but I understand 2081 03:23:41,240 --> 03:23:45,120 correct me if I'm wrong but it's also not suggesting that any new development 2082 03:23:45,120 --> 03:23:49,040 there must have a non-residential component so you'd still have the option 2083 03:23:49,040 --> 03:23:53,520 of building a single-family home or something else there right Commissioner 2084 03:23:53,520 --> 03:24:02,120 Dyer me and Julie just a quick question if for some reason this got approved to 2085 03:24:02,120 --> 03:24:06,920 move on to City Council and City Council approved it one is the next opportunity 2086 03:24:06,920 --> 03:24:11,280 that this could be revised is this like it for like the next ten years or can 2087 03:24:11,280 --> 03:24:17,680 there be revisions to this down the road like any ordinance or code amendment 2088 03:24:17,680 --> 03:24:24,800 there could be revisions Haley no that's exactly correct so this would be adopted 2089 03:24:24,800 --> 03:24:29,560 into the DDC so it's just like any other part of the DDC that if staff receives 2090 03:24:29,560 --> 03:24:34,560 direction to amend it it can be amended at any time so basically if the 2091 03:24:34,560 --> 03:24:39,920 community members are like hey this isn't working they could reach out to 2092 03:24:39,920 --> 03:24:44,360 any of us I mean I'm sure most of us here would would welcome feedback or 2093 03:24:44,360 --> 03:24:48,320 City Council members and then we can talk to you guys to say this might need 2094 03:24:48,320 --> 03:25:00,440 to go in front of DDC sure yeah okay thank you Mia any other members of the 2095 03:25:00,440 --> 03:25:10,400 public wishing to speak without seeing any motion I will close the public 2096 03:25:10,400 --> 03:25:15,320 hearing and I just want to thank you for for everyone who participated and spoke 2097 03:25:15,320 --> 03:25:20,480 it's it's given us a lot of good information now open the floor for 2098 03:25:20,480 --> 03:25:33,840 discussion or emotion from the Commission okay I'll start Julie just a 2099 03:25:33,840 --> 03:25:45,000 couple things to wrap up here I'm sensing that one of the the challenging 2100 03:25:45,000 --> 03:25:55,160 lines to walk here is the concern for increased demand of people living in 2101 03:25:55,160 --> 03:26:03,800 this area of town driving up prices of housing versus the desire for continuity 2102 03:26:03,800 --> 03:26:11,000 of design and also function of those housing options is that a correct 2103 03:26:11,000 --> 03:26:18,040 assessment I think that's consistent with what what we're hearing with it from 2104 03:26:18,040 --> 03:26:21,920 the community okay yeah because I guess I noticed when looking through the 2105 03:26:21,920 --> 03:26:28,880 Southeast Denton area plan there were many comments about hey we we want more 2106 03:26:28,880 --> 03:26:35,040 housing options from both the steering committee as well as some of the some of 2107 03:26:35,040 --> 03:26:39,400 the survey responses but then when you did the survey specifically asking hey 2108 03:26:39,400 --> 03:26:44,480 do we want to allow duplexes here that aren't currently allowed then then the 2109 03:26:44,480 --> 03:26:49,720 answer was more mixed because some concern there wasn't overwhelming in 2110 03:26:49,720 --> 03:26:56,400 terms of in the the the neighborhoods in the kind of the historic neighborhoods 2111 03:26:56,400 --> 03:27:03,160 that are nested within the Southeast Denton boundary so you know we we heard 2112 03:27:03,160 --> 03:27:07,120 from the community and there we heard just overwhelming concerns about 2113 03:27:07,120 --> 03:27:12,400 additional densities within the neighborhoods and so that was why we 2114 03:27:12,400 --> 03:27:17,680 were very careful on the residential overlay to really not touch the uses to 2115 03:27:17,680 --> 03:27:21,840 keep that in place keep minimum lot sizes in place keep that the setbacks 2116 03:27:21,840 --> 03:27:26,320 all of those elements in place and really just focus on those design 2117 03:27:26,320 --> 03:27:31,080 elements okay no I appreciate that clarification I think you know we all 2118 03:27:31,080 --> 03:27:38,000 are sensitive to affordability and price points of of the housing that is there 2119 03:27:38,000 --> 03:27:46,080 is it fair to say from a planning perspective that as a region grows in 2120 03:27:46,080 --> 03:27:53,640 demand that one of the biggest tools in our planning tool bag to allow prices to 2121 03:27:53,640 --> 03:28:00,280 stay affordable is to to allow that gentle density of that missing middle 2122 03:28:00,280 --> 03:28:05,000 where it is appropriate it is certainly something that could be used where 2123 03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:09,520 appropriate at this time because of what we've heard from the community we don't 2124 03:28:09,520 --> 03:28:14,680 feel like it's appropriate within the residential overlay thank you 2125 03:28:14,680 --> 03:28:23,000 Commissioner McDuff yes I want to just assure everyone that's come here this 2126 03:28:23,000 --> 03:28:28,600 evening that we've heard all your concerns and I believe in my heart that 2127 03:28:28,600 --> 03:28:33,500 the staff is being wonderful in addressing our concerns and the 2128 03:28:33,500 --> 03:28:39,560 community members concerns and I feel certain as I make this motion for 2129 03:28:39,560 --> 03:28:47,320 approval of this proposal this evening that anything that comes up will be 2130 03:28:47,320 --> 03:28:58,960 addressed so I make the motion for approval of this proposal chair prove it 2131 03:28:58,960 --> 03:29:05,240 thank you Commissioner McDuff I'll just ask for clarification on things that 2132 03:29:05,240 --> 03:29:09,160 come up would be addressed we heard several things from the community is 2133 03:29:09,160 --> 03:29:16,000 there anything like the community serving youth activity things or 2134 03:29:16,000 --> 03:29:20,400 operating past 8 p.m. or other things that you would like staff to look at 2135 03:29:20,400 --> 03:29:24,000 within this motion between now and council well yes I will say that in 2136 03:29:24,000 --> 03:29:28,560 course that Donald Cox was gone but I've known him also from back in the day in 2137 03:29:28,560 --> 03:29:33,280 fact we worked on programs together at UNT and TWA so that's certainly one of 2138 03:29:33,280 --> 03:29:39,360 them we're all concerned about our youth I wasn't I think more needs to be 2139 03:29:39,360 --> 03:29:44,280 addressed on the parking problem I didn't hear quite enough on that with all 2140 03:29:44,280 --> 03:29:49,360 the building of the new retail establishments the restaurants I think 2141 03:29:49,360 --> 03:29:55,080 all those are good things but the thoroughfares are small like anything and 2142 03:29:55,080 --> 03:30:01,220 didn't and not built for all the traffic and development but those are two 2143 03:30:01,220 --> 03:30:09,900 things I have stored and then whatever else comes up as another point though we 2144 03:30:09,900 --> 03:30:19,200 did have a rather focused comment on the revision of the sections of the map so 2145 03:30:19,200 --> 03:30:24,360 we want to make sure we take a look at that as well East Prairie Street between 2146 03:30:24,360 --> 03:30:31,020 the railroad track and DCTA track was the recommended area but I believe we 2147 03:30:31,020 --> 03:30:39,200 have taken note of that mr. McDade sorry so I just want to be have some clarity 2148 03:30:39,200 --> 03:30:48,780 on what the motion is so is is it to have staff look at these things but our 2149 03:30:48,780 --> 03:30:53,720 recommendation is as presented or is it that we would like to modify the the 2150 03:30:53,720 --> 03:30:58,640 recommendation from staff yours do this to me chair prove it let me go again on 2151 03:30:58,640 --> 03:31:06,840 this I want to make a motion for approval with suggested input being a 2152 03:31:06,840 --> 03:31:16,440 price of suggested input from the citizens in the neighborhood yeah I'll 2153 03:31:16,440 --> 03:31:20,720 just let me let me be very clear if you want to wordsmith that that's certainly 2154 03:31:20,720 --> 03:31:28,940 fine but my first motion stands for approval of the proposal okay so if I 2155 03:31:28,940 --> 03:31:34,840 can try to get us focused really what I'm hearing is two potential provisions 2156 03:31:34,840 --> 03:31:43,400 that you would like modified one perhaps the the community services use and the 2157 03:31:43,400 --> 03:31:55,800 hours of that and the second one being whether any adjustment to the the first 2158 03:31:55,800 --> 03:32:02,920 piece area sub area a of the live work overlay is is desired so I think those 2159 03:32:02,920 --> 03:32:08,480 two are questions to us as we need to deliberate and and see what direction we 2160 03:32:08,480 --> 03:32:18,760 need to give staff I'll accept that so so just for for procedure wise is your 2161 03:32:18,760 --> 03:32:25,480 motion to recommend the proposal as is but monitor those two things or is your 2162 03:32:25,480 --> 03:32:31,680 proposal to to include one of those or both of those within the motion I would 2163 03:32:31,680 --> 03:32:37,960 say include one the revision of the map and monitor the other okay the use 2164 03:32:37,960 --> 03:32:42,960 services if that's acceptable to you it's not me it's the Commission as a 2165 03:32:42,960 --> 03:32:48,560 whole yes so let me let me just restate so that we're on the same page you're 2166 03:32:48,560 --> 03:32:56,620 moving to to recommend to council the proposal as presented with the one 2167 03:32:56,620 --> 03:33:02,880 amendment being that the eastern boundary of the live work overlay sub 2168 03:33:02,880 --> 03:33:12,640 area a be at the DCTA train tracks instead of on Bradshaw that's what I'm 2169 03:33:12,640 --> 03:33:21,400 hearing okay I'm getting an affirmative from the audience yes okay so I'm sorry 2170 03:33:21,400 --> 03:33:26,680 I misstated the street name on the eastern boundary of the current area it's 2171 03:33:26,680 --> 03:33:39,160 the cemetery yes thank you for that correction so understood I have one one 2172 03:33:39,160 --> 03:33:43,200 person on the other board Commissioner McDade 2173 03:33:43,200 --> 03:33:51,000 excuse me I was wanting to get the clarification also from Commissioner 2174 03:33:51,000 --> 03:34:04,280 McDuff and to is there a way that we can vote and with amendments and the 2175 03:34:04,280 --> 03:34:14,120 amendments also include addressing the drainage Creek would you accept that 2176 03:34:14,120 --> 03:34:20,760 friendly yeah let's hear from staff on the feasibility of that so the drainage 2177 03:34:20,760 --> 03:34:23,400 issue is something that Julie mentioned is it's acknowledged in the plan that 2178 03:34:23,400 --> 03:34:28,680 that's something staff needs to work on I believe and Charlie feel free to 2179 03:34:28,680 --> 03:34:33,280 correct me if I'm wrong we would need to potentially do a lot more work there and 2180 03:34:33,280 --> 03:34:37,200 that might be something not knowing the scope of the issue that could like 2181 03:34:37,200 --> 03:34:42,080 require a bond election or something to even provide funding for that work to be 2182 03:34:42,080 --> 03:34:44,560 able to be done because it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars of work 2183 03:34:44,560 --> 03:34:48,960 that the city may not currently have funding set aside for but it is because 2184 03:34:48,960 --> 03:34:52,720 it's an action in the small area plan to address it is something that would be 2185 03:34:52,720 --> 03:34:57,680 allocated into a future budget year for us to be able to do that but at this 2186 03:34:57,680 --> 03:35:00,520 time I don't think we know the full scope of that work to know if it's like 2187 03:35:00,520 --> 03:35:04,480 something that could be a quick reasonable fix or something that is like 2188 03:35:04,480 --> 03:35:12,200 a future budget item that we would need to allocate funds for good evening 2189 03:35:12,200 --> 03:35:15,440 Commission Charlie Rosen all interim director of development service I will 2190 03:35:15,440 --> 03:35:19,300 stick around and talk with mr. house with afterwards about that that 2191 03:35:19,300 --> 03:35:24,600 particular issue and and Haley what Haley said was correct since this is 2192 03:35:24,600 --> 03:35:28,320 related to the zoning it wouldn't really have any effect over the 2193 03:35:28,320 --> 03:35:32,440 infrastructure but that is something that's part of the plan and depending on 2194 03:35:32,440 --> 03:35:36,000 the scope it is something that we can work on and at least get a response back 2195 03:35:36,000 --> 03:35:46,760 to appreciate that I don't see anybody else wishing to speak I'll I appreciate 2196 03:35:46,760 --> 03:35:52,800 very much the the motion as we narrow in on these things my preference would be 2197 03:35:52,800 --> 03:36:03,480 to actually flip the precedence of the two things we heard to suggest that we 2198 03:36:03,480 --> 03:36:11,920 recommend it on the condition that staff works with community leaders to to allow 2199 03:36:11,920 --> 03:36:19,360 community services uses past 8 p.m. in some form or fashion for the proposal 2200 03:36:19,360 --> 03:36:25,960 that goes to council and the live work overlay boundary as is for now and 2201 03:36:25,960 --> 03:36:33,240 monitor that primarily that's just because I'm looking at a variety of a 2202 03:36:33,240 --> 03:36:38,040 public feedback that we've gotten over the last three years three and a half 2203 03:36:38,040 --> 03:36:49,600 years on this plan and while there's a lot of value in the you know current 2204 03:36:49,600 --> 03:36:53,920 thoughts and concerns I think there's also a lot of value in the other five 2205 03:36:53,920 --> 03:37:01,000 hundred some odd people and the hopes that they had and I saw several of the 2206 03:37:01,000 --> 03:37:07,200 percentages fairly high on that those small neighborhood uses but that's 2207 03:37:07,200 --> 03:37:12,600 that's just my my feeling Commissioner McDade I think you're on the board for a 2208 03:37:12,600 --> 03:37:14,720 second 2209 03:37:21,520 --> 03:37:41,120 oh I'm sorry I second it the motion from Commissioner McDade got it so we have a 2210 03:37:41,120 --> 03:37:59,680 motion and a second any further discussion okay just so we don't get in 2211 03:37:59,680 --> 03:38:07,480 a quagmire of people being concerned to vote for and and having a split or 2212 03:38:07,480 --> 03:38:17,240 denial on this I'm gonna make a superior motion to amend the motion to follow 2213 03:38:17,240 --> 03:38:23,000 what what I was proposing that that I think is a little bit more fair from the 2214 03:38:23,000 --> 03:38:32,320 type of feedback that we got one so so leave the boundaries as is but staff to 2215 03:38:32,320 --> 03:38:40,280 implement some ability for community services uses after 8 p.m. and so that's 2216 03:38:40,280 --> 03:38:43,920 I'm moving for that it would need a second and then we would have to vote 2217 03:38:43,920 --> 03:38:50,920 on that amendment and then whether that if it succeeds then we would vote on 2218 03:38:50,920 --> 03:38:55,560 that motion if it fails then we would vote on the original motion Commissioner 2219 03:38:55,560 --> 03:39:02,440 McDuff see you're on the board I would have accepted an amendment to my motion 2220 03:39:02,440 --> 03:39:11,520 to include both of those items okay for modification understood 2221 03:39:11,520 --> 03:39:19,680 Commissioner Dyer I guess I'm just a little concerned that we've got 2222 03:39:19,680 --> 03:39:23,960 individuals that came here and feel like this was the first time that they really 2223 03:39:23,960 --> 03:39:30,760 heard about it and I understand of those that participated the percentages were 2224 03:39:30,760 --> 03:39:36,560 high but when you only have 16% of your community I mean I know you're not gonna 2225 03:39:36,560 --> 03:39:41,600 get everybody and you may not even get half the community but to me 16% seems 2226 03:39:41,600 --> 03:39:47,760 so low and I know that even when this has been in front of our Commission last 2227 03:39:47,760 --> 03:39:51,720 year and we started talking about some of these responses and everything I know 2228 03:39:51,720 --> 03:39:57,000 I made the concern about the communication and getting the word out 2229 03:39:57,000 --> 03:40:02,960 and utilizing I mean we probably had close to 30 people in here and a lot of 2230 03:40:02,960 --> 03:40:08,640 the individuals did not even so you know even I apologize I can't remember your 2231 03:40:08,640 --> 03:40:14,080 name but the nice lady that was on the you know on the committee she didn't 2232 03:40:14,080 --> 03:40:20,360 even understand some of the stuff so I'm wondering if city staff should do one 2233 03:40:20,360 --> 03:40:28,560 more public meeting just one where they can hear more concerns because now you 2234 03:40:28,560 --> 03:40:33,320 got 30 people that they probably have a bigger understanding of being in this 2235 03:40:33,320 --> 03:40:39,400 presentation and if a presentation can be made to the community make it at the 2236 03:40:39,400 --> 03:40:43,280 church or at you know the nearest nearby school or something where you're going 2237 03:40:43,280 --> 03:40:47,640 through the whole presentation in front of the community that this is what we 2238 03:40:47,640 --> 03:40:51,320 proposed this is what it used to be this is what we're proposing to make the 2239 03:40:51,320 --> 03:40:56,840 changes what do you all feel about that how do you all think and so I I mean I 2240 03:40:56,840 --> 03:41:00,040 don't know that I can make a motion but if I could make a motion my motion would 2241 03:41:00,040 --> 03:41:06,000 be let's pause this and let's instruct city staff to have one more community 2242 03:41:06,000 --> 03:41:11,600 meeting to share that just so that city staff that the community feels like 2243 03:41:11,600 --> 03:41:16,200 their voice was heard that maybe more than 16% because I have a feeling that 2244 03:41:16,200 --> 03:41:20,240 the 30 people were here are going to tell their neighbors you've got to get 2245 03:41:20,240 --> 03:41:25,000 yourself there you've got to know and maybe that's one little thing that will 2246 03:41:25,000 --> 03:41:31,320 help bridge and build back the little building blocks of trust so that the 2247 03:41:31,320 --> 03:41:35,480 community feels that they are heard like that's that's what I would like to do 2248 03:41:35,480 --> 03:41:49,400 and I would second yes I just wanted to throw out there while I feel like we 2249 03:41:49,400 --> 03:41:55,000 have done far more in engagement than it I mean my whole staff went door-to-door 2250 03:41:55,000 --> 03:41:59,320 putting out flyers in Southeast Denton twice during this process so I do 2251 03:41:59,320 --> 03:42:03,800 apologize if some people didn't find out but we have far exceeded public 2252 03:42:03,800 --> 03:42:08,000 engagement I would propose rather than pausing and coming back to P&D that 2253 03:42:08,000 --> 03:42:13,400 perhaps you give us the opportunity to do we can make one more attempt and host 2254 03:42:13,400 --> 03:42:17,560 a meeting prior to City Council but rather than putting the whole effort on 2255 03:42:17,560 --> 03:42:22,600 pause I would suggest maybe we we do one more meeting between now and City 2256 03:42:22,600 --> 03:42:26,320 Council and we can take that feedback to council and I under and I understand 2257 03:42:26,320 --> 03:42:31,600 that and I recognize 18 months oh I mean a lot of work and I totally 100% get 2258 03:42:31,600 --> 03:42:35,720 that but if you're hearing from the community that there was a lack of trust 2259 03:42:35,720 --> 03:42:41,280 that might be why you didn't have some of the response because they weren't sure 2260 03:42:41,280 --> 03:42:49,240 what the motivations in that were and so I'm just I would again just point out 2261 03:42:49,240 --> 03:42:53,600 the history of the area plan I mean we went so far as to have our consultant do 2262 03:42:53,600 --> 03:42:57,640 their own engagement without staff to avoid that perception of mistrust so we 2263 03:42:57,640 --> 03:43:01,040 please trust us when we say we've gone above and beyond and done more 2264 03:43:01,040 --> 03:43:05,080 engagement than has ever been done for a city project and please know I'm not I'm 2265 03:43:05,080 --> 03:43:11,880 not saying that you haven't gone above and beyond I 100% know that y'all have I 2266 03:43:11,880 --> 03:43:16,400 like to call the question please we have a motion on the floor in a second we 2267 03:43:16,400 --> 03:43:25,960 have a motion and a second just to yeah yeah so so to be clear the the motion to 2268 03:43:25,960 --> 03:43:31,000 continue is a superior motion and we have a second I believe still from 2269 03:43:31,000 --> 03:43:38,920 Commissioner McDade is that correct I withdrew my second to the original 2270 03:43:38,920 --> 03:43:45,760 motion right were you intending to second Commissioner Dyer's motion to 2271 03:43:45,760 --> 03:43:55,400 continue okay so that's what we have on the floor I'll say I believe I'm the 2272 03:43:55,400 --> 03:44:00,740 only one here on the board who's been here through this whole process I have 2273 03:44:00,740 --> 03:44:08,280 never seen a planning project either in the city of Denton or read about 2274 03:44:08,280 --> 03:44:12,760 something outside of the city of Denton that has gotten as high as a 16% 2275 03:44:12,760 --> 03:44:22,480 response rate I understand we all want a hundred percent but just just for 2276 03:44:22,480 --> 03:44:35,680 clarification staff has moved mountains I think staff's proposal that they go 2277 03:44:35,680 --> 03:44:39,040 through especially with the people that are here tonight and their neighbors and 2278 03:44:39,040 --> 03:44:46,480 and have one more informational moving informational meeting to sort of make it 2279 03:44:46,480 --> 03:44:54,120 very clear what the proposal is preserves that opportunity for feedback 2280 03:44:54,120 --> 03:44:59,400 and still preserves the opportunity for council to hear that and take that into 2281 03:44:59,400 --> 03:45:11,680 their considerations I'm concerned that postponing again is going to going to 2282 03:45:11,680 --> 03:45:18,420 not necessarily create a whole lot more feedback because what it's possible that 2283 03:45:18,420 --> 03:45:22,360 that would delay the process and then the people who have come here tonight 2284 03:45:22,360 --> 03:45:28,480 won't hear about that next meeting and it just seems clearer to me to keep 2285 03:45:28,480 --> 03:45:35,920 going but to but to make sure that there's one more opportunity to to fully 2286 03:45:35,920 --> 03:45:41,320 explain what the proposal is so I won't be supporting the motion to continue but 2287 03:45:41,320 --> 03:45:48,520 as I understand it the motion is to continue to an event certain of the of 2288 03:45:48,520 --> 03:45:52,880 staff holding another meeting and then bringing this proposal back to the 2289 03:45:52,880 --> 03:45:57,920 planning and zoning Commission is that correct Commissioner Dyer well do we 2290 03:45:57,920 --> 03:46:06,880 have I mean Robert's Rules of Order Commissioner Macduff made a motion but 2291 03:46:06,880 --> 03:46:10,720 nobody's second the second was withdrawn you've made a motion but 2292 03:46:10,720 --> 03:46:16,960 nobody's second it so are those two motions kind of dead they are okay so 2293 03:46:16,960 --> 03:46:22,520 then yes I would like to make a motion to pause and have city staff go for one 2294 03:46:22,520 --> 03:46:31,400 last public community presentation so that more of the community feels like 2295 03:46:31,400 --> 03:46:38,240 they are have been informed and they can give any final feedback so that way if 2296 03:46:38,240 --> 03:46:45,240 there's any last changes then when they come in front of planning and zoning it's 2297 03:46:45,240 --> 03:46:49,680 a good solid plan I mean I know we're not gonna have hundred percent I'm not 2298 03:46:49,680 --> 03:46:53,240 asking for a hundred percent just hoping that more than sixteen percent would 2299 03:46:53,240 --> 03:47:01,640 come and that everybody you know people at the next public hearing people feel 2300 03:47:01,640 --> 03:47:06,880 that you know they were informed and not feel like this was the first time they 2301 03:47:06,880 --> 03:47:10,920 knew about it or that they didn't that they've known about it but just didn't 2302 03:47:10,920 --> 03:47:16,920 have a clear understanding okay thank you and Commissioner Ketcher said I 2303 03:47:16,920 --> 03:47:23,520 second the motion to table this okay I think we had a previous seconder but I 2304 03:47:23,520 --> 03:47:27,320 appreciate that because I just wanted clarity on the motion like I said I 2305 03:47:27,320 --> 03:47:31,200 won't be supporting this not because I don't believe in public engagement but 2306 03:47:31,200 --> 03:47:38,860 because I believe we would have to double our tax rate in order to have 2307 03:47:38,860 --> 03:47:46,280 enough money to to far exceed the 16% because we've we've done a lot with that 2308 03:47:46,280 --> 03:47:59,400 said that's that's the motion and staff have any more Charlie yeah just a couple 2309 03:47:59,400 --> 03:48:03,640 more things to add as far as the 16 percent goes that's of the entire 2310 03:48:03,640 --> 03:48:09,400 population so our respondents like in a household for instance maybe we got a 2311 03:48:09,400 --> 03:48:15,120 single respondent that responded for the entire household so just provided some 2312 03:48:15,120 --> 03:48:19,600 additional context to that 16 percent since it's a population of the entire 2313 03:48:19,600 --> 03:48:26,480 area and then another thing that I wanted to add on this is we still have 2314 03:48:26,480 --> 03:48:31,120 the ability at City Council to have another round of engagement we would be 2315 03:48:31,120 --> 03:48:37,720 happy to go and meet with the community again and talk about it and this this 2316 03:48:37,720 --> 03:48:44,680 would also have another round of public hearing for PNC so it'd be the community 2317 03:48:44,680 --> 03:48:51,680 coming out to this again so it's just I want to be cognizant of that too you 2318 03:48:51,680 --> 03:48:56,640 know often we see is we have additional public hearings less people wanting to 2319 03:48:56,640 --> 03:49:01,480 come attend and provide input in those public hearings so just want to be 2320 03:49:01,480 --> 03:49:05,440 mindful and have the Commission consider that as well but this group would come 2321 03:49:05,440 --> 03:49:11,480 out another evening to have these conversations thank you 2322 03:49:11,480 --> 03:49:18,640 Commissioner McDade I live I work in the neighborhood I don't live in the 2323 03:49:18,640 --> 03:49:25,440 neighborhood however I was I'm able to receive some of the notices even being 2324 03:49:25,440 --> 03:49:31,920 there I only recall receiving one notification so I can understand that 2325 03:49:31,920 --> 03:49:39,640 some people did not get it here to see it I attended the meeting the community 2326 03:49:39,640 --> 03:49:44,080 meeting in framework part of course this is prior to my appointment on this 2327 03:49:44,080 --> 03:49:50,160 commission and I think that the staff did a great job I really did enjoy this 2328 03:49:50,160 --> 03:49:55,440 setup the community enjoyed that setup and I I believe you received a lot of 2329 03:49:55,440 --> 03:50:01,720 feedback at that time with this being a public hearing tonight with the actual 2330 03:50:01,720 --> 03:50:07,760 plan being here this is my first time seeing it so to speak to this is the 2331 03:50:07,760 --> 03:50:12,960 plan this is what we're trying to move forward this public hearing has informed 2332 03:50:12,960 --> 03:50:17,520 us that there are a few people who do have some modifications changes and 2333 03:50:17,520 --> 03:50:23,680 issues and questions about what's in the plan now I say yeah let's give staff if 2334 03:50:23,680 --> 03:50:31,360 they will please one more time and maybe we can get somebody pay for pizza again 2335 03:50:31,360 --> 03:50:37,720 give the community one more chance to see what the staff actually came up with 2336 03:50:37,720 --> 03:50:43,800 one more time and that's why I'm seconding the motion thank you for that 2337 03:50:43,800 --> 03:50:50,680 clarity yeah I think we're gonna vote on this very soon unless there's any other 2338 03:50:50,680 --> 03:50:55,480 comments only thing I'll add to that is that I 2339 03:51:03,960 --> 03:51:08,840 I'm sorry but the public hearing is closed it sounds like no matter what the 2340 03:51:08,840 --> 03:51:14,040 outcome is here there will be opportunities to work with staff as we 2341 03:51:14,040 --> 03:51:27,280 move forward but I'll just say I get it if if going back for another round is is 2342 03:51:27,280 --> 03:51:32,480 what the commission votes for I would expect certainly all those commissioners 2343 03:51:32,480 --> 03:51:37,240 who are voting to do that to make every possible effort to actually be at this 2344 03:51:37,240 --> 03:51:46,880 community meeting and see how much effort and time and what goes into these 2345 03:51:46,880 --> 03:51:54,280 things we are asking and as we ask staff to do things that the capacity is not 2346 03:51:54,280 --> 03:52:01,600 unlimited and so if this is the the priority of the Commission that's great 2347 03:52:01,600 --> 03:52:05,400 but it does mean that other things that we put on our matrix are going to be 2348 03:52:05,400 --> 03:52:10,240 delayed etc implementation of the southeast Denton area plan and the future 2349 03:52:10,240 --> 03:52:14,360 steps would be delayed because it would take organizing the meeting notifying 2350 03:52:14,360 --> 03:52:19,980 for the meeting making any changes then re noticing for the public hearings so 2351 03:52:19,980 --> 03:52:25,640 we're probably talking about three months before it gets to council if if 2352 03:52:25,640 --> 03:52:33,120 this is postponed as as the motion is ready is that fair okay that's that's 2353 03:52:33,120 --> 03:52:42,680 all did you have something no okay any other comments questions I don't see any 2354 03:52:42,680 --> 03:52:47,600 so I would call for a vote on the board this is a motion to postpone to an event 2355 03:52:47,600 --> 03:52:54,320 certain of staff holding an additional input meeting for for the residents of 2356 03:52:54,320 --> 03:53:09,300 the area and that item passes four to two so Julie just for the benefit of 2357 03:53:09,300 --> 03:53:13,640 here people here can you explain the outcome of this motion and what I know 2358 03:53:13,640 --> 03:53:17,120 we don't have any schedules yet but just so people understand so they can stay 2359 03:53:17,120 --> 03:53:30,000 informed sorry maybe Haley I'll take it so following this motion what I've heard 2360 03:53:30,000 --> 03:53:34,400 is we will do another round of community engagement in the form of a meeting so 2361 03:53:34,400 --> 03:53:40,040 that will look like another postcard or door hangers whatever method we can can 2362 03:53:40,040 --> 03:53:44,360 come up with to notify for that public engagement meeting and then there will 2363 03:53:44,360 --> 03:53:48,320 be another round of notices sent for a future P and Z public hearing as well as 2364 03:53:48,320 --> 03:53:53,920 a council public hearing so it was probably about a three month timeline on 2365 03:53:53,920 --> 03:53:58,160 that at least is there a reason why you can't utilize social media and put the 2366 03:53:58,160 --> 03:54:01,720 plan on and say hey we're having a meeting here it's that it's at this 2367 03:54:01,720 --> 03:54:06,760 location on this date so that way you're covering lots of different forms of 2368 03:54:06,760 --> 03:54:10,560 communication so if if we were to utilize the city social media channels 2369 03:54:10,560 --> 03:54:13,840 that would invite the entirety of the city of Denton and whoever else might 2370 03:54:13,840 --> 03:54:18,960 follow to that meeting whereas we are seeking a targeted audience for this so 2371 03:54:18,960 --> 03:54:22,520 if someone is aware of a social media platform that is exclusive to southeast 2372 03:54:22,520 --> 03:54:27,360 Denton and would like to to share that with us so that we can possibly put 2373 03:54:27,360 --> 03:54:31,160 something out that way we can but we would prefer not inviting the entirety of 2374 03:54:31,160 --> 03:54:35,640 Denton to weigh in on a matter that is not pertinent to the entirety of Denton 2375 03:54:35,640 --> 03:54:42,800 doesn't Sedna have their own but my staff has been at every step in this has 2376 03:54:42,800 --> 03:54:51,660 been I understand there's feelings here and I'll just I just wanted Hillary to 2377 03:54:51,660 --> 03:54:57,760 to explain what the process was our staff does an amazing job of figuring 2378 03:54:57,760 --> 03:55:03,920 out who the stakeholders are whether that's I don't know if any commissioners 2379 03:55:03,920 --> 03:55:07,760 here have been to the Southeast Denton neighborhood Association meeting every 2380 03:55:07,760 --> 03:55:12,040 time I've gone which is at least half a dozen times in the last three years 2381 03:55:12,040 --> 03:55:17,840 staff have been there there are many other neighborhood associations in the 2382 03:55:17,840 --> 03:55:25,440 city where that is not true so our staff take this area seriously okay and and as 2383 03:55:25,440 --> 03:55:34,840 I think it was former Commissioner McDade said there's a concern that yes 2384 03:55:34,840 --> 03:55:41,320 we want trust even a simple thing as the plan when we adopted it saying 2385 03:55:41,320 --> 03:55:47,360 rebuilding trust instead of building trust can be interpreted as an affront 2386 03:55:47,360 --> 03:55:54,880 so I just want people to understand but I understand we'll we'll go for another 2387 03:55:54,880 --> 03:56:01,680 round but but nobody nobody said that we didn't have faith in the city staff or 2388 03:56:01,680 --> 03:56:05,360 that we didn't think they were working hard we just we were just hearing the 2389 03:56:05,360 --> 03:56:10,060 comments from the community and felt like you know maybe there's just an 2390 03:56:10,060 --> 03:56:15,920 opportunity to have a final presentation and basically give the same presentation 2391 03:56:15,920 --> 03:56:20,760 that they gave to us sure and and just and show it to the community so that way 2392 03:56:20,760 --> 03:56:26,040 there's just a deeper understanding that was all I mean I know that I know the 2393 03:56:26,040 --> 03:56:30,640 city staff works hard and and so I'm not I'm not trying to imply when I made that 2394 03:56:30,640 --> 03:56:36,580 motion that they don't understood and sorry if I was implying the counter to 2395 03:56:36,580 --> 03:56:40,560 that I was mostly responding to the the suggestion of reaching out to the 2396 03:56:40,560 --> 03:56:43,960 churches yes those are all good ideas these are things I'm sure that the staff 2397 03:56:43,960 --> 03:56:49,300 has already done in previous rounds and I'm sure they will do this I think they 2398 03:56:49,300 --> 03:56:54,960 are taking the the will of this body with a lot of weight tonight because it's 2399 03:56:54,960 --> 03:57:01,400 no small thing to to delay this for for doing this again they will take that 2400 03:57:01,400 --> 03:57:06,920 seriously and and that's their job to implement the will of the body so I look 2401 03:57:06,920 --> 03:57:12,680 forward to seeing what we can do and I will make an effort to be there as well 2402 03:57:12,680 --> 03:57:21,000 any other questions about the process before I move on okay that's that and 2403 03:57:21,000 --> 03:57:26,720 and just for public awareness if there's any confusion or questions that you have 2404 03:57:26,720 --> 03:57:31,320 about when this is all gonna happen how to make sure you're notified all that 2405 03:57:31,320 --> 03:57:36,960 kind of stuff we've got staff still here they they love the city more than they 2406 03:57:36,960 --> 03:57:41,200 love their family so you're gonna you're gonna have time to ask them and make 2407 03:57:41,200 --> 03:57:44,640 sure you get on a mailing list or something some method to make sure you 2408 03:57:44,640 --> 03:57:52,640 hear about the future changes or or events with this plan with that we will 2409 03:57:52,640 --> 03:58:02,880 move to item 6a the planning and zoning Commission matrix yes so I have a 2410 03:58:02,880 --> 03:58:10,120 couple of items for you all first Kathy has asked me to request that everyone 2411 03:58:10,120 --> 03:58:15,160 bring the iPads that have been issued to them to our April 28th meeting she will 2412 03:58:15,160 --> 03:58:19,080 be collecting those and if you would like a new iPad those will be made 2413 03:58:19,080 --> 03:58:24,640 available at the May 13th meeting if you do not want a new iPad you can also let 2414 03:58:24,640 --> 03:58:30,320 her know that and she will not bring one for you at the April 28th meeting yeah 2415 03:58:30,320 --> 03:58:33,400 yeah and the tech services will be working on a new set of iPads for you 2416 03:58:33,400 --> 03:58:36,640 all that we'll have at that first May meeting for everyone to get at that time 2417 03:58:36,640 --> 03:58:41,960 and that's the next scheduled meeting three weeks for tonight yes correct and 2418 03:58:41,960 --> 03:58:47,900 then in terms of recent council actions just to keep you all apprised of we did 2419 03:58:47,900 --> 03:58:52,640 have a annexation for approximately one acre of land off of Swisher Road that 2420 03:58:52,640 --> 03:58:57,400 had an expired non annexation agreement that was recently approved that will get 2421 03:58:57,400 --> 03:59:01,080 that placeholder zoning and then if and when that property owner wishes to do 2422 03:59:01,080 --> 03:59:06,200 anything you'll see that come before you all for zoning and then just last night 2423 03:59:06,200 --> 03:59:11,420 we did have two non annexation agreements that were extended to 2040 2424 03:59:11,420 --> 03:59:15,640 for a couple of properties on Mills Road as well as the zoning change that you 2425 03:59:15,640 --> 03:59:20,720 all saw it's been a few weeks at this point that was a rural residential to 2426 03:59:20,720 --> 03:59:25,440 general office off of Barthold Road that was approved by council last night and I 2427 03:59:25,440 --> 03:59:29,760 believe we'll be marking one item off the matrix with tonight's work session 2428 03:59:29,760 --> 03:59:33,760 as well as the memo that was circulated to you all earlier this week from our 2429 03:59:33,760 --> 03:59:37,240 transportation services team so happy to add anything else to the matrix you 2430 03:59:37,240 --> 03:59:43,360 might like but we will make those two updates any additions to the matrix from 2431 03:59:43,360 --> 03:59:52,560 the Commission I don't see any and concluding items item 7 any concluding 2432 03:59:52,560 --> 04:00:01,080 items from the Commission not seeing anyway any at this time we'll thank the 2433 04:00:01,080 --> 04:00:06,520 public for coming and like I said we all value your input look forward to where 2434 04:00:06,520 --> 04:00:12,640 this is going to go and at 9 23 p.m. I will without objection call this meeting 2435 04:00:12,640 --> 04:00:13,160 to a close.