WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.160 Good morning and welcome to the regularly scheduled Public Utilities Board meeting for 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:10.880 February 9th. 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:15.280 It is 9.03 a.m. and our meeting is called to order. 00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.560 Our first item is presentations from the public. 00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:20.920 Do we have any presentations? 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:25.280 Okay, moving on to the consent agenda. 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:30.360 Would anybody like to discuss any item on the consent agenda? 00:00:30.360 --> 00:00:38.440 I'd like to pull item F. 00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:44.920 And if nobody else wants to pull anything, the Chair would entertain a motion. 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:45.920 So moved. 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:47.720 We have a motion. 00:00:47.720 --> 00:00:48.720 New quiz seconds. 00:00:48.720 --> 00:00:50.600 All in favor say aye. 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:51.600 Aye. 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:53.040 All opposed? 00:00:53.040 --> 00:00:57.420 Motion carries unanimously. 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:00.920 Chris Ludrick, Executive Manager of Operations for DME. 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:06.320 And I can answer any questions about the disposal sale that is item F. 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:12.160 So I had -- looking at this, these are itemized as large individual transformers? 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:13.160 Yes, sir. 00:01:13.160 --> 00:01:17.600 So are these the ones that are currently -- a lot of them are sitting on the substation 00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:18.600 -- Correct. 00:01:18.600 --> 00:01:19.600 Yes. 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:20.600 Yes. 00:01:20.600 --> 00:01:21.600 They're very large. 00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:22.600 They're not our distribution transformers. 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:25.360 They're all in substations. 00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:29.840 Half of the units are 69 kV, which is no longer our system voltage. 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:31.160 So we have no use for them. 00:01:31.160 --> 00:01:36.880 And the other 138 transformers are at the end of their life, and they've been replaced 00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:39.160 with new units. 00:01:39.160 --> 00:01:40.700 And we kept a spare. 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:43.920 So basically this company will come in -- we don't have the ability to move them. 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:45.680 They're about 50 tons. 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:51.160 So this company will come in and drain the oil and load them on a trailer and get them 00:01:51.160 --> 00:01:52.720 off our hands. 00:01:52.720 --> 00:01:58.480 Yeah, I was actually driving past the North Bonnie Bray substation, the old one, and there's 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:02.320 just a chain link fence and a giant transformer out in the middle of the yard. 00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:03.380 That'll be the first one to go. 00:02:03.380 --> 00:02:05.920 So they're going to start with that. 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:13.920 And on this, I noticed I didn't see a scoring sheet, just the bid tabulation in the backup. 00:02:13.920 --> 00:02:18.280 And we went with the highest bid, so I was curious if there -- I'm assuming there was 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:19.280 other criteria? 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:20.280 Correct. 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:21.280 I noticed that. 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:22.280 So that's what we're getting paid. 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:23.280 Oh, we're being paid. 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:24.280 Okay. 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:25.280 Yeah. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.280 Okay. 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:27.280 All right. 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.040 So they have a lot of scrap metal value. 00:02:30.040 --> 00:02:31.040 So that's what they're doing. 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:34.360 So they're doing all the work and then paying us roughly $402,000. 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:35.360 Okay. 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:36.880 That makes a lot more sense now. 00:02:36.880 --> 00:02:37.880 Yeah. 00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:38.880 Thank you. 00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:40.960 It's tough to word an AIS where people are actually paying us. 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:41.960 Yes, sir, Mr. Ibeck. 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:46.280 Well, since we're on the subject, how obsolete are these? 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:47.280 How old are these? 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:52.960 Well, the one that he -- that the chairs at Bonnie Bray actually had an oil leak. 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.440 So we drained the oil out of that about five years ago. 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:57.560 So it's trash now. 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:02.520 So the other ones, there's some 1960, late '60s models and '80s. 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:03.520 Oh dear. 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:04.520 Yes, sir. 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:05.520 Yes, sir. 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:09.160 And again, the '69 KV, we have no use for them because it's not our system voltage anymore. 00:03:09.160 --> 00:03:13.960 And two of them are -- were auto-transformers, which stepped to 138 to '69. 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:20.200 So -- and we are making -- one of the ones, it's the newest one, is RD Wells. 00:03:20.200 --> 00:03:25.840 That transformer's sister had a failure at Florida Power and Light and actually caused 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:26.840 some fatalities. 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.000 So we knew there was an issue with it. 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.480 We had Siemens in there. 00:03:30.480 --> 00:03:32.120 We operated it in a manner. 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:33.880 We had nobody in the sub. 00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:37.600 And so for that liability, we were mandating that they can't reuse it. 00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:39.880 They have to scrap that one, just for the liability. 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.880 Okay. 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:41.880 That makes perfectly good sense. 00:03:41.880 --> 00:03:42.880 Yes, sir. 00:03:42.880 --> 00:03:43.880 Yes, sir. 00:03:43.880 --> 00:03:51.640 If there are no further questions, I would entertain a motion -- or I guess I can move 00:03:51.640 --> 00:03:52.840 since I had the question. 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:55.960 I move approval of consent agenda item F. 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:56.960 Second. 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:00.120 If a motion is second, all in favor? 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.120 Aye. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:02.400 Any opposed? 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.440 Motion carries unanimously. 00:04:04.440 --> 00:04:08.200 And we'll move on to items for individual consideration. 00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:14.440 Item A, approval of the January 12th minutes. 00:04:14.440 --> 00:04:18.240 We have a motion and a second for Mr. Rybak. 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:19.560 All in favor, say aye. 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:20.560 Aye. 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:21.560 Any opposed? 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:24.520 The motion carries unanimously. 00:04:24.520 --> 00:04:26.880 And now on to management reports. 00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:34.000 So, Mr. Chair, members of the PAB, we do have a couple of memos here for you, one from the 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.240 water department and the other one from -- actually, both for the water department, and then we 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:45.040 have a memo with two items that went to the council because of the postponement of the 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:46.040 PAB meeting. 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:47.040 So those went straight to council. 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:51.720 It was a household hazardous waste disposal and then the project software for our public 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:52.720 works department. 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:56.520 So if there's any questions on any of those memos, staff's here, happy to -- for them 00:04:56.520 --> 00:05:03.120 to come up here and answer any questions you may have. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.120 Okay. 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:08.120 The other item is our future agenda items. 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:15.400 We did list on here that today we would be doing a presentation on a DME billing matter. 00:05:15.400 --> 00:05:19.280 We've postponed that because of the storm, but we are taking that to the council on the 00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:23.600 17th, and then we'll be -- we'll come to the PAB on the 23rd. 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.160 I'll make sure that I advise council that, you know, we will be going -- coming back to 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.280 the PAB, and if there is any recommendations different from the council, then we'll kind 00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:36.000 of act accordingly, but I did want to make sure that you are aware kind of of that sequencing. 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:41.440 I just didn't want to postpone that any longer because now items on the council are pushing 00:05:41.440 --> 00:05:47.080 out until, you know, June or July now, and so I think this is a pretty urgent matter, 00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:51.440 but we'll come to you on the 23rd. 00:05:51.440 --> 00:05:57.840 And then we don't have any new business action items on our action matrix, but happy to answer 00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:02.120 any questions you may have on any of that or any direction you may have. 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.880 >> Mr. Rybak. 00:06:04.880 --> 00:06:11.960 >> I was wondering if we could get some updates during the year on these long-term projects 00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:20.520 like the water treatment and expansion of the water delivery system and water delivery 00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:21.520 plants. 00:06:21.520 --> 00:06:22.520 >> Yes, sir. 00:06:22.520 --> 00:06:25.960 I can visit with Stephen about kind of getting that scheduled. 00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:30.080 I was just thinking maybe a couple times during the year, since we keep getting change order 00:06:30.080 --> 00:06:34.160 notifications on various items as they come through, it would be nice to kind of know 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.800 where we're at with the projects. 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:36.800 >> Yes, sir. 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:37.800 >> Thank you. 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:44.480 >> I've got one request for future item, just an update on the Hickory Creek Road project. 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:50.160 >> Yes, sir. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.680 We'll get those two added. 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:57.940 And now we will move on to our work session. 00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:02.560 Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding updates to the cross-connection control and 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:07.000 backflow ordinance. 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:15.000 >> Good morning, everyone. 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.680 I'm Michael Hunter, reclaimed water and cross-connection control manager for water utilities. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.800 Today I want to share a little bit about our backflow program and some updates we're proposing 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:29.000 for the ordinance as well. 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:30.540 A little bit about our program. 00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:32.880 It was established in 1997. 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:38.000 We monitor a little over 6,000 commercial backflow assemblies all throughout the city. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:43.240 And as the city continues to grow, we add around 600 new assemblies annually to that 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:45.640 inventory. 00:07:45.640 --> 00:07:49.040 Annually we require each of these assemblies to be tested. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.440 And those tests are submitted to our program for every single one annually. 00:07:54.440 --> 00:08:00.440 We provide customer education as needed for noncompliance site visits. 00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:05.000 So if we do not get that test form in time when it's due every year, then we can visit 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.640 and educate the customers so that hopefully next time they'll know what our expectations 00:08:08.640 --> 00:08:14.680 are on those. 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:15.680 So what is a backflow? 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.840 A backflow is in its simplest form when water flows in the opposite direction of normal 00:08:20.840 --> 00:08:21.840 flow. 00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:26.920 Specifically in the context of a water utility, it is when backflow -- it's when water flows 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.040 from a customer's site back into our distribution main. 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.960 So once the water crosses the meter and enters a customer site, we really don't want that 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.640 water to flow backwards into our system again. 00:08:38.640 --> 00:08:43.800 Cross-connection is when any number of systems on a customer site that could potentially 00:08:43.800 --> 00:08:49.260 introduce contaminants into the water are directly piped to our drinking water main. 00:08:49.260 --> 00:08:52.720 So we want to make sure that there is some sort of protection from all these systems 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:53.720 you see here. 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:58.700 A really good example of a cross-connection is whenever there is a hose in someone's backyard 00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:02.640 and they're filling their pool and they let the hose drape into the water and keep it 00:09:02.640 --> 00:09:04.120 underwater while filling. 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:09.380 If a hydraulic condition arises where the drinking water main pulls water from the house, 00:09:09.380 --> 00:09:12.800 that water can actually go up the hose from the swimming pool through the house and back 00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:14.960 into our drinking water main. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.560 So that's just a simple example, but it could obviously become a lot more serious in the 00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:24.680 event of a heating and cooling system where there's additives such as anti-biocides and 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:29.200 other contaminants that can cause severe human health problems. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:36.080 This is essential because in 2024 in the city of Grand Prairie, there was a backflow event 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:41.200 that caused a foaming agent used in firefighting to actually enter the water distribution system 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:42.620 in that city. 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:46.280 As a result of that, the city had to issue a "do not use the water" notice. 00:09:46.280 --> 00:09:50.400 So no showering, no dishwashing, obviously no drinking. 00:09:50.400 --> 00:09:57.320 The result of this is really, it's obviously a huge deal for everyone affected. 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:01.120 It can cause a loss in confidence and trust in the water utility. 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:02.840 It can cause businesses to lose revenue. 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.960 There's just a whole list of adverse side effects. 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.240 We really don't want that to ever happen here in Denton. 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:09.240 Hey, Michael. 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.440 Would you mind staying on the mic? 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:12.440 Don't be drifting away. 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:13.440 Absolutely. 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:19.960 So in order to ensure this does not happen, we install this device here called a backflow 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:21.440 prevention assembly. 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:23.460 This only allows water to flow in one direction. 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:31.160 So when that hydraulic condition arises, the water is unable to go back into our main system. 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:39.000 In order to ensure cross-connection control, we have staff that are specialists that are 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.800 able to go visit a customer site and ensure that there is no unprotected connections. 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:46.840 This involves surveying an entire property in some instances. 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:51.280 And for all new construction, there must be a cross-connection survey done to ensure that 00:10:51.280 --> 00:10:56.920 everything is protected that needs to be. 00:10:56.920 --> 00:10:58.840 The reason we need an update to -- go ahead. 00:10:58.840 --> 00:10:59.840 I'm sorry. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:08.000 Before you move on, the event at Grand Prairie ISD that you mentioned, did the backflow preventer 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.800 on that system fail, or do they know? 00:11:10.800 --> 00:11:15.680 That was -- where the fire department hooks up is called the fire department connection. 00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:20.800 And that pipe -- it was actually piped upstream of the backflow preventer. 00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:25.800 So there was a backflow preventer on site, but the fire department connection was before 00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:27.060 the backflow preventer. 00:11:27.060 --> 00:11:31.320 So when they piped it into the building, it went into the building as it was supposed to. 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.840 But when the pressure overwhelmed it, it went back -- it pushed back out of the building 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:40.520 and then back into the water system because the fire truck was able to -- there was no 00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:41.520 backflow preventer. 00:11:41.520 --> 00:11:47.080 Off of that connection, which was upstream of the building's backflow preventer. 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.080 So how did that happen? 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:50.080 That was the result of plumbing. 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:54.400 It was an older building, and that was the result of plumbing at the time. 00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:58.000 The fire department connection should always go downstream of the backflow preventer. 00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:59.960 In this case, it was upstream. 00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:06.160 So the building inspector failed to catch that? 00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:07.160 I don't know. 00:12:07.160 --> 00:12:09.160 At the time -- I'm just curious. 00:12:09.160 --> 00:12:14.320 At the time that it was installed, it was possibly not a requirement yet because I think 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:15.320 it was an older building. 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:17.320 But I'm not really sure about that. 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:18.320 Okay. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:19.320 Yeah. 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:22.240 Because most commercial and two-steel buildings have backflow preventers. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.640 I was curious how that could have even happened. 00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:25.640 Sure. 00:12:25.640 --> 00:12:26.640 Sure. 00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:27.640 Thank you. 00:12:27.640 --> 00:12:28.640 Yeah. 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:38.400 So the reason we need an update is since 1997, best practices and threats have evolved. 00:12:38.400 --> 00:12:43.280 We fully reviewed the existing program, and we identified a lot of areas for improvement. 00:12:43.280 --> 00:12:48.220 Also, the current ordinance, as it is today, it presents enforcement challenges. 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:52.600 So the new ordinance addresses that, the proposed ordinance. 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.640 The proposed ordinance ensures that water is protected for all customers. 00:12:56.640 --> 00:13:02.000 It maintains compliance with state regulations, follows industry best practices, and provides 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.840 clear enforcement authority and fees. 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.460 Some highlights of what we're proposing in this new ordinance. 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:14.320 As I said earlier, once it passes the meter, we want to ensure that it cannot backflow 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.800 into our water system from that point on. 00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:23.380 So we are proposing backflow preventers required just past the meter on all new construction. 00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:27.860 For domestic systems, for fire systems, and also for irrigation systems. 00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:29.360 Who does this actually affect? 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:35.760 For typical residential, there's no effect because the ordinance applies to non-residential. 00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:42.920 For existing non-residential, nothing is required unless they are going to undergo large major 00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:44.640 plumbing modifications. 00:13:44.640 --> 00:13:47.480 In that case, they're going to pull a permit, and that's how we'll find out about it. 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.600 Then the updated criteria will apply. 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:55.800 For all new non-residential construction, the criteria will apply. 00:13:55.800 --> 00:14:00.340 Other highlights include clear installation standards and updated tester insurance and 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:02.880 training requirements. 00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:07.540 Atmospheric vacuum breakers, that's a type of backflow preventer that is not testable. 00:14:07.540 --> 00:14:11.600 We are no longer going to allow that in the city because as part of that annual requirement 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.920 for testing, atmospheric vacuum breakers cannot be tested. 00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:21.280 Environment meter requirements are defined better, expanded staff inspection access is 00:14:21.280 --> 00:14:26.560 provided in order to do those cross connection surveys to ensure there's no unprotected connections. 00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:31.400 Staff have to be able to go out on site and ensure so we have expanded access. 00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:39.280 Emergency shut off procedures are defined, and service suspension is clarified for non-compliance. 00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:41.920 So some prior action, we did take this to a City Council work -- 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:47.680 Oh, sorry, before you go on, so if you're going to require the backflow preventer just 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:52.760 off the meter in a residential application, how will it be protected from the weather? 00:14:52.760 --> 00:14:55.720 Will it be placed underground like the meter? 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:58.760 So the required backflow preventer here must be above ground. 00:14:58.760 --> 00:15:04.760 It's called an RPZ or a reduced pressure principle backflow, and there is required to be weather 00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:06.880 proofing or weather protection around it. 00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:12.720 Okay, so that means that every home going forward there's going to be another box just 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.040 off the street. 00:15:14.040 --> 00:15:19.040 This is strictly for commercial, or non-residential, so for homes this does not apply, but for 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:20.040 apartment complexes -- 00:15:20.040 --> 00:15:23.480 Oh, you mentioned irrigation systems with homes, and I was like, well, does that mean 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:27.160 every home's going to have a meter just off the street in a box? 00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:31.520 No, sir, this is just for non-residential, so that would not apply to homes. 00:15:31.520 --> 00:15:34.080 Okay, thank you for the clarification. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:40.640 So along the same lines, a lot of irrigation systems, like home irrigation, yard irrigation 00:15:40.640 --> 00:15:45.280 systems use the, what are they called, the air, the ones that are not allowed, the air 00:15:45.280 --> 00:15:46.280 break? 00:15:46.280 --> 00:15:50.120 Yes, atmospheric vacuum breakers. 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:55.160 So is that still allowed for like a residential irrigation installation? 00:15:55.160 --> 00:16:01.580 Not for a new installation, PVB or pressure vacuum breaker, that would be required instead. 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:04.600 It's a very similar device, it's testable though. 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:05.600 Okay. 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:06.600 Yes. 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.400 Any other questions? 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:15.520 So prior action, we did take this to a council work session on February 3rd. 00:16:15.520 --> 00:16:20.720 Next steps, we're working right now with our development services group and our marketing 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:27.020 and communications group to explain the proposed changes to the public. 00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:31.520 On March 3rd, we're taking this to city council for individual consideration, and then we'll 00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:35.900 of course publish it in the Debt and Record Chronicle with an effective date proposed, 00:16:35.900 --> 00:16:41.840 if accepted, of March 17th. 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.360 Any questions at this time? 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:52.120 Could you go to slide five, please? 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.120 Yes. 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:54.120 Was it this one? 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:55.120 Slide five. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:56.120 Oh, it's got numbers. 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:57.120 Yes. 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:04.160 So if you have a small contractor, commercial fellow that has five buildings and they all 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:09.760 have individual water meters, then each one will have this backflow, correct? 00:17:09.760 --> 00:17:10.760 That is correct. 00:17:10.760 --> 00:17:11.760 Okay. 00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:17.480 And then, excuse me, slide eight for me. 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:25.200 So on the residential domestic, I'm intrigued, and where I live, a lot of lines are being 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.280 redone because of the age of the pipe and this, that, and the other. 00:17:28.280 --> 00:17:33.880 And so if they do that kind of structure where they put in a new water pipe, that activates, 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:38.000 because they're not going to have the backflow yet, that activates the backflow apparatus 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.160 to be put on then, is that correct? 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.040 For residential, this would not apply, again- 00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:46.840 But I thought I'd heard you say if you were going to- 00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:47.840 Apartments. 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:48.840 What? 00:17:48.840 --> 00:17:49.840 Apartment complexes. 00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:55.720 Apartments, but then houses, so if I'm putting in a new water line in my house, that's going 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:59.720 to be, some have gotten new water meters. 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.840 So if the water meter is replaced, is that going to be the triggering mechanism to have 00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:07.280 that put in for residential, domestic, whatever you want to call it? 00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:11.520 For commercial, the trigger would be a major plumbing, the whole site would have to have 00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:13.300 a major plumbing change. 00:18:13.300 --> 00:18:18.140 For commercial sites, there is typically a separate meter for irrigation only. 00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:21.440 So that makes it a little different than residential, which typically there's one meter that supplies 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.120 domestic to the house, as well as a branch for irrigation. 00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:25.760 Oh yeah, let me refocus. 00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:27.720 I was talking about domestic. 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:28.720 Residential. 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:29.720 Residential. 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.440 And I'm putting in a pipe, and it's going to require a new meter, let's say. 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.440 So a new meter is put in, and I have my new pipe. 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:49.100 Am I going to have the new backflow at that point too? 00:18:49.100 --> 00:18:52.080 You just wanted to get me up here, didn't you? 00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:56.720 Stephen Gay, General Manager, Water Utilities and Street Operations. 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.400 This ordinance deals specifically with the non-residential. 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.560 To answer your question, it would fall under the building code, and that would be regulated 00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:06.560 by the building officials. 00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:09.480 So what we're talking about today has nothing to do with it. 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:14.600 So we would have to go back to them to determine if it would trigger a requirement for them 00:19:14.600 --> 00:19:19.560 to upgrade their backflow assembly on their dedicated irrigation system on a residential 00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:20.560 connection. 00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:21.560 Does that answer it? 00:19:21.560 --> 00:19:22.560 Well, close. 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:24.040 I want to ask another one to follow up. 00:19:24.040 --> 00:19:25.040 Ductail. 00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:26.040 Ductail. 00:19:26.040 --> 00:19:34.520 So it is on a case-by-case basis then with the building code has nothing to do with this. 00:19:34.520 --> 00:19:35.520 That's correct. 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:36.800 I'll give you a personal example. 00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:42.200 So I recently upgraded my service at my home because my wife didn't like the fact that 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:46.120 the backflow assembly that was installed was right in the middle of the yard. 00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:47.280 I didn't have to move it. 00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:48.280 I didn't have to do anything. 00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:52.880 I was just upgrading my water line, but I chose to at that point. 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.920 I wasn't required by the building department to upgrade the irrigation. 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:03.000 At the same time, I upgraded my domestic connection or my service line. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.000 I chose to do that. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.520 And so we will have to go back to the building department to find out if in fact that they 00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:14.880 would require that, if an upgrade of a service line would trigger the installation of the 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:22.000 backflow assembly or updating their irrigation system, but I think it's unlikely. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.600 So back to your question, which I didn't think about, are apartments considered domestic? 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:31.840 Well, an apartment complex, that's a multifamily, that's a commercial connection. 00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:39.240 And so typically they would fall under the commercial, the non-residential type of category 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.200 because it's more of a commercial connection. 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.500 I appreciate that. 00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:50.160 My simple-minded thinking is I'd like for you to remove the domestic system completely 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.160 since it's not residential. 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:55.400 It seems to kind of bring itself back up needlessly. 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:03.240 Well, the challenge with multifamily connections like that in apartment complexes is you have 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:08.760 multiple uses, and that creates a level of threat to the distribution system. 00:21:08.760 --> 00:21:13.180 When you talk about a single-family residence, it's typically a single-family, right? 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:14.180 Right. 00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:17.840 So two, what, three and a half people, right, a mother, father, and one and a half children. 00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:19.560 I think that's the stats. 00:21:19.560 --> 00:21:20.960 We're waiting for that picture now. 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.480 We're waiting for that picture now. 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:28.800 So the level of threat or the risk to the distribution system is greater when you have 00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:36.120 more connections or more use on a single connection, if that makes any sense. 00:21:36.120 --> 00:21:37.120 Great. 00:21:37.120 --> 00:21:38.120 Great. 00:21:38.120 --> 00:21:41.800 So could we go to, I'm through with that, could we go to slide number nine, please? 00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:42.800 Don't leave. 00:21:42.800 --> 00:21:43.800 I may have you again. 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:46.200 Okay, thank you. 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:52.560 So on the sprinkler systems, going back to your atmospheric, yes, vacuum, so that's the 00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:56.120 ones that stick up and come back down, and they're the ones I always have to cover because 00:21:56.120 --> 00:22:00.640 they usually break, and then I have water flowing all the time. 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.720 Those are going to be replaced with what? 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:04.720 A pressure vacuum breaker. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.040 It is about the same size. 00:22:06.040 --> 00:22:07.040 It looks very similar. 00:22:07.040 --> 00:22:10.600 It just is testable, so it has these little ports coming off the side of them. 00:22:10.600 --> 00:22:14.620 There's two ports, and that allows a tester to ensure it is working properly. 00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:18.640 What happens is over time, they'll start to break down on the inside, and they won't function 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.720 properly, so they won't be doing their job. 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:26.380 So when they break down, which I know they will, then the sprinkler system company is 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.960 going to go in there, and they're going to put the new one in place. 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:29.960 That is correct. 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:30.960 Ideally, that would be. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.960 Ideally. 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:32.960 Yes. 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.520 But it's going to need as much protection to cold weather as this would, would it not? 00:22:36.520 --> 00:22:38.040 Yes, it will. 00:22:38.040 --> 00:22:39.040 Okay. 00:22:39.040 --> 00:22:40.560 And then if I could, let's see, that was slide. 00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:45.160 So now, I don't know if you already covered it or maybe it's coming, but what are we looking 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:46.800 at construction costs? 00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:51.440 What kind of cost are we looking for, something like that, for your typical commercial? 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.480 Sure. 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:58.080 It varies dramatically by the materials used, by the type of backflow preventer it is, by 00:22:58.080 --> 00:23:01.800 the contractor that installs it, and it really does vary dramatically. 00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:06.480 For a typical three-quarter inch, say a small commercial site, a three-quarter inch can 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:13.440 vary with the protection from the weather, can vary from $2,000 to $4,000. 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:18.560 Okay, go ahead. 00:23:18.560 --> 00:23:19.560 Point of clarification. 00:23:19.560 --> 00:23:20.560 There's a disclaimer. 00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:21.560 What? 00:23:21.560 --> 00:23:22.560 Here comes a disclaimer. 00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:23.560 Yeah, can you tell? 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:24.560 Point of clarification. 00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:29.720 I just want to punctuate that this is an update to an existing ordinance. 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:32.400 We already require the installation of these devices. 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:39.160 So we're not talking about a new financial burden that we're placing on a development. 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.780 So I just want to make sure that that was communicated. 00:23:41.780 --> 00:23:45.000 So this is not new. 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.800 It's an update to an existing ordinance that we already enforce, and we already require 00:23:49.800 --> 00:23:52.220 the installation of these devices. 00:23:52.220 --> 00:23:58.440 So hopefully that helps. 00:23:58.440 --> 00:23:59.440 Your turn. 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.440 Okay. 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:01.440 Just a follow-up question. 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:09.760 We talked about the replacement of these devices, and Mr. Rayner just mentioned his landscape 00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:12.600 irrigation guys putting it in. 00:24:12.600 --> 00:24:15.720 Does this require a plumber or a licensed plumber to put this in? 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:16.720 Yes. 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:17.720 That is an existing rule. 00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:18.720 That's an existing rule. 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.480 Because I bet those guys aren't licensed plumbers most of the time. 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.900 Well, there's a licensed irrigator, except I don't even know what that is. 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:33.720 For the installation of a backflow prevention assembly, it has always been required for 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.480 someone with a plumber's license to do the install. 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.480 Okay. 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:38.480 And permit? 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:39.480 And a permit. 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:40.480 Okay. 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.280 Yes, they will. 00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:47.720 So the material could be $2,000 to $4,000, and then the rest of the land gap is to get 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:48.720 it in the ground. 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.400 That's whatever you can bid on the open market. 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:52.400 I should clarify. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.280 The $2,000 to $4,000, that was for... 00:24:54.280 --> 00:24:55.280 Oh, it's a good range. 00:24:55.280 --> 00:24:56.280 I don't care. 00:24:56.280 --> 00:24:58.120 That was for the reduced pressure. 00:24:58.120 --> 00:25:03.560 That was for the most rigid and stringent backflow prevention assembly, and that was... 00:25:03.560 --> 00:25:05.360 The example was if you're going to put it at the meter. 00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:08.980 So that needs weather protection as well. 00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:09.980 And back to your question. 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:10.980 I'm sorry. 00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:12.280 I thought I gave it. 00:25:12.280 --> 00:25:13.280 Okay. 00:25:13.280 --> 00:25:14.720 Did I miss something? 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.200 No, I think... 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.320 So this is commercial only? 00:25:19.320 --> 00:25:20.760 Not single-family residential? 00:25:20.760 --> 00:25:21.760 Correct. 00:25:21.760 --> 00:25:22.760 Okay. 00:25:22.760 --> 00:25:23.760 And so... 00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:25.000 And this is already a requirement? 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:26.000 We're just... 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.000 You're making one adjustment. 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.640 You can't use an atmospheric vacuum breaker. 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:30.760 You have to use a pressure vacuum breaker. 00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:31.760 That is... 00:25:31.760 --> 00:25:38.280 That's correct, but for the ones at the meter across all new construction, that is an update. 00:25:38.280 --> 00:25:39.280 Right. 00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:40.280 I need to make that clear. 00:25:40.280 --> 00:25:41.280 Yeah. 00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:42.280 Yeah. 00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:43.280 So this is a change. 00:25:43.280 --> 00:25:44.280 You can't use one type. 00:25:44.280 --> 00:25:45.280 You have to use... 00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:46.280 One type is not allowed. 00:25:46.280 --> 00:25:47.280 You have to use one of the other types. 00:25:47.280 --> 00:25:48.280 Yes. 00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:49.280 Yeah. 00:25:49.280 --> 00:25:50.280 And so... 00:25:50.280 --> 00:25:51.280 And just to clarify. 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:57.280 So 2,000 to 4,000, I think, includes installation costs because you can buy a three-quarter-inch 00:25:57.280 --> 00:26:00.800 non-atmospheric vacuum breaker for like $199 at Home Depot. 00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:01.800 I could. 00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:02.800 That's what I was just wondering. 00:26:02.800 --> 00:26:08.560 A lot of hands have been added to the formula. 00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:09.560 No offense. 00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:14.320 I'm not indicating or suggesting anything from the city. 00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:15.320 And these... 00:26:15.320 --> 00:26:19.400 Like the requirement to have a plumber sign off on a plumbing permit is not a new requirement? 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:20.400 No. 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:21.400 No. 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:22.400 Okay. 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:23.400 No. 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:24.400 Okay. 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:25.400 Thank you. 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:26.400 Thank you. 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:27.400 I'm through. 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.400 Appreciate it. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.400 Of course. 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:30.400 Thank you, everybody. 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.320 Do you give staff any kind of guidance on the updated ordinance? 00:26:33.320 --> 00:26:37.080 I think our commissioners might have clarified it. 00:26:37.080 --> 00:26:41.120 Well, since it's already been to City Council, I don't think it really matters. 00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:42.120 Yeah. 00:26:42.120 --> 00:26:43.760 And it's my understanding that... 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:47.240 We brought this to PUB for information only. 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.560 PUB, I don't think... 00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:50.560 I'm not sure. 00:26:50.560 --> 00:26:55.800 Maybe Marcella could weigh in on it, but it's not really in the purview of PUB to recommend 00:26:55.800 --> 00:26:58.120 and/or adjust on the ordinances. 00:26:58.120 --> 00:27:02.680 It's more about the financial expenditures. 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:03.680 That's my understanding. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:04.680 Right. 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.680 So we're not posted for direction. 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:10.640 So it can be a little simpler than going into what the charter requires the PUB to review, 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:22.840 but the work session agenda item isn't posted for direction, just discussion. 00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:28.880 So that was exercised for your education, sir. 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.880 That's what I wanted to know. 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.160 I want to be ready for when the alarms go off. 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.360 I believe all of our business is done, so we stand in adjournment. 00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:40.360 Thank you. 00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:40.360 Thank you.