Good morning and welcome to the regularly scheduled Public Utilities Board meeting for
February 9th.
It is 9.03 a.m. and our meeting is called to order.
Our first item is presentations from the public.
Do we have any presentations?
Okay, moving on to the consent agenda.
Would anybody like to discuss any item on the consent agenda?
I'd like to pull item F.
And if nobody else wants to pull anything, the Chair would entertain a motion.
So moved.
We have a motion.
New quiz seconds.
All in favor say aye.
Aye.
All opposed?
Motion carries unanimously.
Chris Ludrick, Executive Manager of Operations for DME.
And I can answer any questions about the disposal sale that is item F.
So I had -- looking at this, these are itemized as large individual transformers?
Yes, sir.
So are these the ones that are currently -- a lot of them are sitting on the substation
-- Correct.
Yes.
They're very large.
They're not our distribution transformers.
They're all in substations.
Half of the units are 69 kV, which is no longer our system voltage.
So we have no use for them.
And the other 138 transformers are at the end of their life, and they've been replaced
with new units.
And we kept a spare.
So basically this company will come in -- we don't have the ability to move them.
They're about 50 tons.
So this company will come in and drain the oil and load them on a trailer and get them
off our hands.
Yeah, I was actually driving past the North Bonnie Bray substation, the old one, and there's
just a chain link fence and a giant transformer out in the middle of the yard.
That'll be the first one to go.
So they're going to start with that.
And on this, I noticed I didn't see a scoring sheet, just the bid tabulation in the backup.
And we went with the highest bid, so I was curious if there -- I'm assuming there was
other criteria?
Correct.
I noticed that.
So that's what we're getting paid.
Oh, we're being paid.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
So they have a lot of scrap metal value.
So that's what they're doing.
So they're doing all the work and then paying us roughly $402,000.
Okay.
That makes a lot more sense now.
Yeah.
Thank you.
It's tough to word an AIS where people are actually paying us.
Yes, sir, Mr. Ibeck.
Well, since we're on the subject, how obsolete are these?
How old are these?
Well, the one that he -- that the chairs at Bonnie Bray actually had an oil leak.
So we drained the oil out of that about five years ago.
So it's trash now.
So the other ones, there's some 1960, late '60s models and '80s.
Oh dear.
Yes, sir.
And again, the '69 KV, we have no use for them because it's not our system voltage anymore.
And two of them are -- were auto-transformers, which stepped to 138 to '69.
So -- and we are making -- one of the ones, it's the newest one, is RD Wells.
That transformer's sister had a failure at Florida Power and Light and actually caused
some fatalities.
So we knew there was an issue with it.
We had Siemens in there.
We operated it in a manner.
We had nobody in the sub.
And so for that liability, we were mandating that they can't reuse it.
They have to scrap that one, just for the liability.
Okay.
That makes perfectly good sense.
Yes, sir.
If there are no further questions, I would entertain a motion -- or I guess I can move
since I had the question.
I move approval of consent agenda item F.
Second.
If a motion is second, all in favor?
Aye.
Any opposed?
Motion carries unanimously.
And we'll move on to items for individual consideration.
Item A, approval of the January 12th minutes.
We have a motion and a second for Mr. Rybak.
All in favor, say aye.
Aye.
Any opposed?
The motion carries unanimously.
And now on to management reports.
So, Mr. Chair, members of the PAB, we do have a couple of memos here for you, one from the
water department and the other one from -- actually, both for the water department, and then we
have a memo with two items that went to the council because of the postponement of the
PAB meeting.
So those went straight to council.
It was a household hazardous waste disposal and then the project software for our public
works department.
So if there's any questions on any of those memos, staff's here, happy to -- for them
to come up here and answer any questions you may have.
Okay.
The other item is our future agenda items.
We did list on here that today we would be doing a presentation on a DME billing matter.
We've postponed that because of the storm, but we are taking that to the council on the
17th, and then we'll be -- we'll come to the PAB on the 23rd.
I'll make sure that I advise council that, you know, we will be going -- coming back to
the PAB, and if there is any recommendations different from the council, then we'll kind
of act accordingly, but I did want to make sure that you are aware kind of of that sequencing.
I just didn't want to postpone that any longer because now items on the council are pushing
out until, you know, June or July now, and so I think this is a pretty urgent matter,
but we'll come to you on the 23rd.
And then we don't have any new business action items on our action matrix, but happy to answer
any questions you may have on any of that or any direction you may have.
>> Mr. Rybak.
>> I was wondering if we could get some updates during the year on these long-term projects
like the water treatment and expansion of the water delivery system and water delivery
plants.
>> Yes, sir.
I can visit with Stephen about kind of getting that scheduled.
I was just thinking maybe a couple times during the year, since we keep getting change order
notifications on various items as they come through, it would be nice to kind of know
where we're at with the projects.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Thank you.
>> I've got one request for future item, just an update on the Hickory Creek Road project.
>> Yes, sir.
We'll get those two added.
And now we will move on to our work session.
Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding updates to the cross-connection control and
backflow ordinance.
>> Good morning, everyone.
I'm Michael Hunter, reclaimed water and cross-connection control manager for water utilities.
Today I want to share a little bit about our backflow program and some updates we're proposing
for the ordinance as well.
A little bit about our program.
It was established in 1997.
We monitor a little over 6,000 commercial backflow assemblies all throughout the city.
And as the city continues to grow, we add around 600 new assemblies annually to that
inventory.
Annually we require each of these assemblies to be tested.
And those tests are submitted to our program for every single one annually.
We provide customer education as needed for noncompliance site visits.
So if we do not get that test form in time when it's due every year, then we can visit
and educate the customers so that hopefully next time they'll know what our expectations
are on those.
So what is a backflow?
A backflow is in its simplest form when water flows in the opposite direction of normal
flow.
Specifically in the context of a water utility, it is when backflow -- it's when water flows
from a customer's site back into our distribution main.
So once the water crosses the meter and enters a customer site, we really don't want that
water to flow backwards into our system again.
Cross-connection is when any number of systems on a customer site that could potentially
introduce contaminants into the water are directly piped to our drinking water main.
So we want to make sure that there is some sort of protection from all these systems
you see here.
A really good example of a cross-connection is whenever there is a hose in someone's backyard
and they're filling their pool and they let the hose drape into the water and keep it
underwater while filling.
If a hydraulic condition arises where the drinking water main pulls water from the house,
that water can actually go up the hose from the swimming pool through the house and back
into our drinking water main.
So that's just a simple example, but it could obviously become a lot more serious in the
event of a heating and cooling system where there's additives such as anti-biocides and
other contaminants that can cause severe human health problems.
This is essential because in 2024 in the city of Grand Prairie, there was a backflow event
that caused a foaming agent used in firefighting to actually enter the water distribution system
in that city.
As a result of that, the city had to issue a "do not use the water" notice.
So no showering, no dishwashing, obviously no drinking.
The result of this is really, it's obviously a huge deal for everyone affected.
It can cause a loss in confidence and trust in the water utility.
It can cause businesses to lose revenue.
There's just a whole list of adverse side effects.
We really don't want that to ever happen here in Denton.
Hey, Michael.
Would you mind staying on the mic?
Don't be drifting away.
Absolutely.
So in order to ensure this does not happen, we install this device here called a backflow
prevention assembly.
This only allows water to flow in one direction.
So when that hydraulic condition arises, the water is unable to go back into our main system.
In order to ensure cross-connection control, we have staff that are specialists that are
able to go visit a customer site and ensure that there is no unprotected connections.
This involves surveying an entire property in some instances.
And for all new construction, there must be a cross-connection survey done to ensure that
everything is protected that needs to be.
The reason we need an update to -- go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Before you move on, the event at Grand Prairie ISD that you mentioned, did the backflow preventer
on that system fail, or do they know?
That was -- where the fire department hooks up is called the fire department connection.
And that pipe -- it was actually piped upstream of the backflow preventer.
So there was a backflow preventer on site, but the fire department connection was before
the backflow preventer.
So when they piped it into the building, it went into the building as it was supposed to.
But when the pressure overwhelmed it, it went back -- it pushed back out of the building
and then back into the water system because the fire truck was able to -- there was no
backflow preventer.
Off of that connection, which was upstream of the building's backflow preventer.
So how did that happen?
That was the result of plumbing.
It was an older building, and that was the result of plumbing at the time.
The fire department connection should always go downstream of the backflow preventer.
In this case, it was upstream.
So the building inspector failed to catch that?
I don't know.
At the time -- I'm just curious.
At the time that it was installed, it was possibly not a requirement yet because I think
it was an older building.
But I'm not really sure about that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because most commercial and two-steel buildings have backflow preventers.
I was curious how that could have even happened.
Sure.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So the reason we need an update is since 1997, best practices and threats have evolved.
We fully reviewed the existing program, and we identified a lot of areas for improvement.
Also, the current ordinance, as it is today, it presents enforcement challenges.
So the new ordinance addresses that, the proposed ordinance.
The proposed ordinance ensures that water is protected for all customers.
It maintains compliance with state regulations, follows industry best practices, and provides
clear enforcement authority and fees.
Some highlights of what we're proposing in this new ordinance.
As I said earlier, once it passes the meter, we want to ensure that it cannot backflow
into our water system from that point on.
So we are proposing backflow preventers required just past the meter on all new construction.
For domestic systems, for fire systems, and also for irrigation systems.
Who does this actually affect?
For typical residential, there's no effect because the ordinance applies to non-residential.
For existing non-residential, nothing is required unless they are going to undergo large major
plumbing modifications.
In that case, they're going to pull a permit, and that's how we'll find out about it.
Then the updated criteria will apply.
For all new non-residential construction, the criteria will apply.
Other highlights include clear installation standards and updated tester insurance and
training requirements.
Atmospheric vacuum breakers, that's a type of backflow preventer that is not testable.
We are no longer going to allow that in the city because as part of that annual requirement
for testing, atmospheric vacuum breakers cannot be tested.
Environment meter requirements are defined better, expanded staff inspection access is
provided in order to do those cross connection surveys to ensure there's no unprotected connections.
Staff have to be able to go out on site and ensure so we have expanded access.
Emergency shut off procedures are defined, and service suspension is clarified for non-compliance.
So some prior action, we did take this to a City Council work --
Oh, sorry, before you go on, so if you're going to require the backflow preventer just
off the meter in a residential application, how will it be protected from the weather?
Will it be placed underground like the meter?
So the required backflow preventer here must be above ground.
It's called an RPZ or a reduced pressure principle backflow, and there is required to be weather
proofing or weather protection around it.
Okay, so that means that every home going forward there's going to be another box just
off the street.
This is strictly for commercial, or non-residential, so for homes this does not apply, but for
apartment complexes --
Oh, you mentioned irrigation systems with homes, and I was like, well, does that mean
every home's going to have a meter just off the street in a box?
No, sir, this is just for non-residential, so that would not apply to homes.
Okay, thank you for the clarification.
So along the same lines, a lot of irrigation systems, like home irrigation, yard irrigation
systems use the, what are they called, the air, the ones that are not allowed, the air
break?
Yes, atmospheric vacuum breakers.
So is that still allowed for like a residential irrigation installation?
Not for a new installation, PVB or pressure vacuum breaker, that would be required instead.
It's a very similar device, it's testable though.
Okay.
Yes.
Any other questions?
So prior action, we did take this to a council work session on February 3rd.
Next steps, we're working right now with our development services group and our marketing
and communications group to explain the proposed changes to the public.
On March 3rd, we're taking this to city council for individual consideration, and then we'll
of course publish it in the Debt and Record Chronicle with an effective date proposed,
if accepted, of March 17th.
Any questions at this time?
Could you go to slide five, please?
Yes.
Was it this one?
Slide five.
Oh, it's got numbers.
Yes.
So if you have a small contractor, commercial fellow that has five buildings and they all
have individual water meters, then each one will have this backflow, correct?
That is correct.
Okay.
And then, excuse me, slide eight for me.
So on the residential domestic, I'm intrigued, and where I live, a lot of lines are being
redone because of the age of the pipe and this, that, and the other.
And so if they do that kind of structure where they put in a new water pipe, that activates,
because they're not going to have the backflow yet, that activates the backflow apparatus
to be put on then, is that correct?
For residential, this would not apply, again-
But I thought I'd heard you say if you were going to-
Apartments.
What?
Apartment complexes.
Apartments, but then houses, so if I'm putting in a new water line in my house, that's going
to be, some have gotten new water meters.
So if the water meter is replaced, is that going to be the triggering mechanism to have
that put in for residential, domestic, whatever you want to call it?
For commercial, the trigger would be a major plumbing, the whole site would have to have
a major plumbing change.
For commercial sites, there is typically a separate meter for irrigation only.
So that makes it a little different than residential, which typically there's one meter that supplies
domestic to the house, as well as a branch for irrigation.
Oh yeah, let me refocus.
I was talking about domestic.
Residential.
And I'm putting in a pipe, and it's going to require a new meter, let's say.
So a new meter is put in, and I have my new pipe.
Am I going to have the new backflow at that point too?
You just wanted to get me up here, didn't you?
Stephen Gay, General Manager, Water Utilities and Street Operations.
This ordinance deals specifically with the non-residential.
To answer your question, it would fall under the building code, and that would be regulated
by the building officials.
So what we're talking about today has nothing to do with it.
So we would have to go back to them to determine if it would trigger a requirement for them
to upgrade their backflow assembly on their dedicated irrigation system on a residential
connection.
Does that answer it?
Well, close.
I want to ask another one to follow up.
Ductail.
So it is on a case-by-case basis then with the building code has nothing to do with this.
That's correct.
I'll give you a personal example.
So I recently upgraded my service at my home because my wife didn't like the fact that
the backflow assembly that was installed was right in the middle of the yard.
I didn't have to move it.
I didn't have to do anything.
I was just upgrading my water line, but I chose to at that point.
I wasn't required by the building department to upgrade the irrigation.
At the same time, I upgraded my domestic connection or my service line.
I chose to do that.
And so we will have to go back to the building department to find out if in fact that they
would require that, if an upgrade of a service line would trigger the installation of the
backflow assembly or updating their irrigation system, but I think it's unlikely.
So back to your question, which I didn't think about, are apartments considered domestic?
Well, an apartment complex, that's a multifamily, that's a commercial connection.
And so typically they would fall under the commercial, the non-residential type of category
because it's more of a commercial connection.
I appreciate that.
My simple-minded thinking is I'd like for you to remove the domestic system completely
since it's not residential.
It seems to kind of bring itself back up needlessly.
Well, the challenge with multifamily connections like that in apartment complexes is you have
multiple uses, and that creates a level of threat to the distribution system.
When you talk about a single-family residence, it's typically a single-family, right?
Right.
So two, what, three and a half people, right, a mother, father, and one and a half children.
I think that's the stats.
We're waiting for that picture now.
So the level of threat or the risk to the distribution system is greater when you have
more connections or more use on a single connection, if that makes any sense.
Great.
So could we go to, I'm through with that, could we go to slide number nine, please?
Don't leave.
I may have you again.
Okay, thank you.
So on the sprinkler systems, going back to your atmospheric, yes, vacuum, so that's the
ones that stick up and come back down, and they're the ones I always have to cover because
they usually break, and then I have water flowing all the time.
Those are going to be replaced with what?
A pressure vacuum breaker.
It is about the same size.
It looks very similar.
It just is testable, so it has these little ports coming off the side of them.
There's two ports, and that allows a tester to ensure it is working properly.
What happens is over time, they'll start to break down on the inside, and they won't function
properly, so they won't be doing their job.
So when they break down, which I know they will, then the sprinkler system company is
going to go in there, and they're going to put the new one in place.
That is correct.
Ideally, that would be.
Ideally.
Yes.
But it's going to need as much protection to cold weather as this would, would it not?
Yes, it will.
Okay.
And then if I could, let's see, that was slide.
So now, I don't know if you already covered it or maybe it's coming, but what are we looking
at construction costs?
What kind of cost are we looking for, something like that, for your typical commercial?
Sure.
It varies dramatically by the materials used, by the type of backflow preventer it is, by
the contractor that installs it, and it really does vary dramatically.
For a typical three-quarter inch, say a small commercial site, a three-quarter inch can
vary with the protection from the weather, can vary from $2,000 to $4,000.
Okay, go ahead.
Point of clarification.
There's a disclaimer.
What?
Here comes a disclaimer.
Yeah, can you tell?
Point of clarification.
I just want to punctuate that this is an update to an existing ordinance.
We already require the installation of these devices.
So we're not talking about a new financial burden that we're placing on a development.
So I just want to make sure that that was communicated.
So this is not new.
It's an update to an existing ordinance that we already enforce, and we already require
the installation of these devices.
So hopefully that helps.
Your turn.
Okay.
Just a follow-up question.
We talked about the replacement of these devices, and Mr. Rayner just mentioned his landscape
irrigation guys putting it in.
Does this require a plumber or a licensed plumber to put this in?
Yes.
That is an existing rule.
That's an existing rule.
Because I bet those guys aren't licensed plumbers most of the time.
Well, there's a licensed irrigator, except I don't even know what that is.
For the installation of a backflow prevention assembly, it has always been required for
someone with a plumber's license to do the install.
Okay.
And permit?
And a permit.
Okay.
Yes, they will.
So the material could be $2,000 to $4,000, and then the rest of the land gap is to get
it in the ground.
That's whatever you can bid on the open market.
I should clarify.
The $2,000 to $4,000, that was for...
Oh, it's a good range.
I don't care.
That was for the reduced pressure.
That was for the most rigid and stringent backflow prevention assembly, and that was...
The example was if you're going to put it at the meter.
So that needs weather protection as well.
And back to your question.
I'm sorry.
I thought I gave it.
Okay.
Did I miss something?
No, I think...
So this is commercial only?
Not single-family residential?
Correct.
Okay.
And so...
And this is already a requirement?
We're just...
You're making one adjustment.
You can't use an atmospheric vacuum breaker.
You have to use a pressure vacuum breaker.
That is...
That's correct, but for the ones at the meter across all new construction, that is an update.
Right.
I need to make that clear.
Yeah.
So this is a change.
You can't use one type.
You have to use...
One type is not allowed.
You have to use one of the other types.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so...
And just to clarify.
So 2,000 to 4,000, I think, includes installation costs because you can buy a three-quarter-inch
non-atmospheric vacuum breaker for like $199 at Home Depot.
I could.
That's what I was just wondering.
A lot of hands have been added to the formula.
No offense.
I'm not indicating or suggesting anything from the city.
And these...
Like the requirement to have a plumber sign off on a plumbing permit is not a new requirement?
No.
Okay.
No.
Okay.
Thank you.
I'm through.
Appreciate it.
Of course.
Thank you, everybody.
Do you give staff any kind of guidance on the updated ordinance?
I think our commissioners might have clarified it.
Well, since it's already been to City Council, I don't think it really matters.
Yeah.
And it's my understanding that...
We brought this to PUB for information only.
PUB, I don't think...
I'm not sure.
Maybe Marcella could weigh in on it, but it's not really in the purview of PUB to recommend
and/or adjust on the ordinances.
It's more about the financial expenditures.
That's my understanding.
Right.
So we're not posted for direction.
So it can be a little simpler than going into what the charter requires the PUB to review,
but the work session agenda item isn't posted for direction, just discussion.
So that was exercised for your education, sir.
That's what I wanted to know.
I want to be ready for when the alarms go off.
I believe all of our business is done, so we stand in adjournment.
Thank you.