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 Good morning and welcome to the regularly scheduled Public Utilities Board meeting for

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 February 9th.

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 It is 9.03 a.m. and our meeting is called to order.

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 Our first item is presentations from the public.

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 Do we have any presentations?

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 Okay, moving on to the consent agenda.

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 Would anybody like to discuss any item on the consent agenda?

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 I'd like to pull item F.

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 And if nobody else wants to pull anything, the Chair would entertain a motion.

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 So moved.

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 We have a motion.

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 New quiz seconds.

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 All in favor say aye.

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 Aye.

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 All opposed?

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 Motion carries unanimously.

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 Chris Ludrick, Executive Manager of Operations for DME.

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 And I can answer any questions about the disposal sale that is item F.

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 So I had -- looking at this, these are itemized as large individual transformers?

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 Yes, sir.

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 So are these the ones that are currently -- a lot of them are sitting on the substation

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 -- Correct.

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 Yes.

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 Yes.

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 They're very large.

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 They're not our distribution transformers.

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 They're all in substations.

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 Half of the units are 69 kV, which is no longer our system voltage.

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 So we have no use for them.

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 And the other 138 transformers are at the end of their life, and they've been replaced

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 with new units.

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 And we kept a spare.

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 So basically this company will come in -- we don't have the ability to move them.

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 They're about 50 tons.

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 So this company will come in and drain the oil and load them on a trailer and get them

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 off our hands.

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 Yeah, I was actually driving past the North Bonnie Bray substation, the old one, and there's

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 just a chain link fence and a giant transformer out in the middle of the yard.

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 That'll be the first one to go.

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 So they're going to start with that.

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 And on this, I noticed I didn't see a scoring sheet, just the bid tabulation in the backup.

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 And we went with the highest bid, so I was curious if there -- I'm assuming there was

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 other criteria?

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 Correct.

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 I noticed that.

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 So that's what we're getting paid.

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 Oh, we're being paid.

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 Okay.

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 Yeah.

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 Okay.

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 All right.

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 So they have a lot of scrap metal value.

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 So that's what they're doing.

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 So they're doing all the work and then paying us roughly $402,000.

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 Okay.

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 That makes a lot more sense now.

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 Yeah.

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 Thank you.

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 It's tough to word an AIS where people are actually paying us.

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 Yes, sir, Mr. Ibeck.

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 Well, since we're on the subject, how obsolete are these?

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 How old are these?

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 Well, the one that he -- that the chairs at Bonnie Bray actually had an oil leak.

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 So we drained the oil out of that about five years ago.

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 So it's trash now.

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 So the other ones, there's some 1960, late '60s models and '80s.

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 Oh dear.

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 Yes, sir.

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 Yes, sir.

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 And again, the '69 KV, we have no use for them because it's not our system voltage anymore.

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 And two of them are -- were auto-transformers, which stepped to 138 to '69.

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 So -- and we are making -- one of the ones, it's the newest one, is RD Wells.

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 That transformer's sister had a failure at Florida Power and Light and actually caused

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 some fatalities.

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 So we knew there was an issue with it.

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 We had Siemens in there.

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 We operated it in a manner.

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 We had nobody in the sub.

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 And so for that liability, we were mandating that they can't reuse it.

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 They have to scrap that one, just for the liability.

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 Okay.

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 That makes perfectly good sense.

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 Yes, sir.

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 Yes, sir.

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 If there are no further questions, I would entertain a motion -- or I guess I can move

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 since I had the question.

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 I move approval of consent agenda item F.

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 Second.

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 If a motion is second, all in favor?

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 Aye.

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 Any opposed?

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 Motion carries unanimously.

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 And we'll move on to items for individual consideration.

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 Item A, approval of the January 12th minutes.

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 We have a motion and a second for Mr. Rybak.

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 All in favor, say aye.

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 Aye.

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 Any opposed?

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 The motion carries unanimously.

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 And now on to management reports.

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 So, Mr. Chair, members of the PAB, we do have a couple of memos here for you, one from the

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 water department and the other one from -- actually, both for the water department, and then we

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 have a memo with two items that went to the council because of the postponement of the

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 PAB meeting.

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 So those went straight to council.

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 It was a household hazardous waste disposal and then the project software for our public

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 works department.

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 So if there's any questions on any of those memos, staff's here, happy to -- for them

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 to come up here and answer any questions you may have.

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 Okay.

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 The other item is our future agenda items.

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 We did list on here that today we would be doing a presentation on a DME billing matter.

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 We've postponed that because of the storm, but we are taking that to the council on the

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 17th, and then we'll be -- we'll come to the PAB on the 23rd.

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 I'll make sure that I advise council that, you know, we will be going -- coming back to

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 the PAB, and if there is any recommendations different from the council, then we'll kind

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 of act accordingly, but I did want to make sure that you are aware kind of of that sequencing.

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 I just didn't want to postpone that any longer because now items on the council are pushing

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 out until, you know, June or July now, and so I think this is a pretty urgent matter,

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 but we'll come to you on the 23rd.

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 And then we don't have any new business action items on our action matrix, but happy to answer

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 any questions you may have on any of that or any direction you may have.

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 >> Mr. Rybak.

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 >> I was wondering if we could get some updates during the year on these long-term projects

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 like the water treatment and expansion of the water delivery system and water delivery

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 plants.

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 >> Yes, sir.

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 I can visit with Stephen about kind of getting that scheduled.

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 I was just thinking maybe a couple times during the year, since we keep getting change order

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 notifications on various items as they come through, it would be nice to kind of know

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 where we're at with the projects.

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 >> Yes, sir.

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 >> Thank you.

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 >> I've got one request for future item, just an update on the Hickory Creek Road project.

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 >> Yes, sir.

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 We'll get those two added.

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 And now we will move on to our work session.

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 Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding updates to the cross-connection control and

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 backflow ordinance.

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 >> Good morning, everyone.

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 I'm Michael Hunter, reclaimed water and cross-connection control manager for water utilities.

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 Today I want to share a little bit about our backflow program and some updates we're proposing

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 for the ordinance as well.

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 A little bit about our program.

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 It was established in 1997.

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 We monitor a little over 6,000 commercial backflow assemblies all throughout the city.

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 And as the city continues to grow, we add around 600 new assemblies annually to that

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 inventory.

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 Annually we require each of these assemblies to be tested.

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 And those tests are submitted to our program for every single one annually.

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 We provide customer education as needed for noncompliance site visits.

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 So if we do not get that test form in time when it's due every year, then we can visit

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 and educate the customers so that hopefully next time they'll know what our expectations

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 are on those.

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 So what is a backflow?

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 A backflow is in its simplest form when water flows in the opposite direction of normal

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 flow.

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 Specifically in the context of a water utility, it is when backflow -- it's when water flows

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 from a customer's site back into our distribution main.

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 So once the water crosses the meter and enters a customer site, we really don't want that

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 water to flow backwards into our system again.

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 Cross-connection is when any number of systems on a customer site that could potentially

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 introduce contaminants into the water are directly piped to our drinking water main.

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 So we want to make sure that there is some sort of protection from all these systems

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 you see here.

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 A really good example of a cross-connection is whenever there is a hose in someone's backyard

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 and they're filling their pool and they let the hose drape into the water and keep it

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 underwater while filling.

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 If a hydraulic condition arises where the drinking water main pulls water from the house,

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 that water can actually go up the hose from the swimming pool through the house and back

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 into our drinking water main.

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 So that's just a simple example, but it could obviously become a lot more serious in the

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 event of a heating and cooling system where there's additives such as anti-biocides and

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 other contaminants that can cause severe human health problems.

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 This is essential because in 2024 in the city of Grand Prairie, there was a backflow event

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 that caused a foaming agent used in firefighting to actually enter the water distribution system

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 in that city.

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 As a result of that, the city had to issue a "do not use the water" notice.

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 So no showering, no dishwashing, obviously no drinking.

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 The result of this is really, it's obviously a huge deal for everyone affected.

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 It can cause a loss in confidence and trust in the water utility.

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 It can cause businesses to lose revenue.

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 There's just a whole list of adverse side effects.

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 We really don't want that to ever happen here in Denton.

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 Hey, Michael.

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 Would you mind staying on the mic?

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 Don't be drifting away.

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 Absolutely.

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 So in order to ensure this does not happen, we install this device here called a backflow

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 prevention assembly.

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 This only allows water to flow in one direction.

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 So when that hydraulic condition arises, the water is unable to go back into our main system.

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 In order to ensure cross-connection control, we have staff that are specialists that are

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 able to go visit a customer site and ensure that there is no unprotected connections.

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 This involves surveying an entire property in some instances.

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 And for all new construction, there must be a cross-connection survey done to ensure that

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 everything is protected that needs to be.

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 The reason we need an update to -- go ahead.

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 I'm sorry.

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 Before you move on, the event at Grand Prairie ISD that you mentioned, did the backflow preventer

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 on that system fail, or do they know?

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 That was -- where the fire department hooks up is called the fire department connection.

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 And that pipe -- it was actually piped upstream of the backflow preventer.

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 So there was a backflow preventer on site, but the fire department connection was before

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 the backflow preventer.

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 So when they piped it into the building, it went into the building as it was supposed to.

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 But when the pressure overwhelmed it, it went back -- it pushed back out of the building

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 and then back into the water system because the fire truck was able to -- there was no

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 backflow preventer.

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 Off of that connection, which was upstream of the building's backflow preventer.

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 So how did that happen?

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 That was the result of plumbing.

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 It was an older building, and that was the result of plumbing at the time.

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 The fire department connection should always go downstream of the backflow preventer.

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 In this case, it was upstream.

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 So the building inspector failed to catch that?

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 I don't know.

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 At the time -- I'm just curious.

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 At the time that it was installed, it was possibly not a requirement yet because I think

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 it was an older building.

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 But I'm not really sure about that.

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 Okay.

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 Yeah.

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 Because most commercial and two-steel buildings have backflow preventers.

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 I was curious how that could have even happened.

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 Sure.

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 Sure.

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 Thank you.

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 Yeah.

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 So the reason we need an update is since 1997, best practices and threats have evolved.

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 We fully reviewed the existing program, and we identified a lot of areas for improvement.

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 Also, the current ordinance, as it is today, it presents enforcement challenges.

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 So the new ordinance addresses that, the proposed ordinance.

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 The proposed ordinance ensures that water is protected for all customers.

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 It maintains compliance with state regulations, follows industry best practices, and provides

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 clear enforcement authority and fees.

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 Some highlights of what we're proposing in this new ordinance.

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 As I said earlier, once it passes the meter, we want to ensure that it cannot backflow

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 into our water system from that point on.

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 So we are proposing backflow preventers required just past the meter on all new construction.

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 For domestic systems, for fire systems, and also for irrigation systems.

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 Who does this actually affect?

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 For typical residential, there's no effect because the ordinance applies to non-residential.

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 For existing non-residential, nothing is required unless they are going to undergo large major

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 plumbing modifications.

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 In that case, they're going to pull a permit, and that's how we'll find out about it.

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 Then the updated criteria will apply.

248
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,800
 For all new non-residential construction, the criteria will apply.

249
00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,340
 Other highlights include clear installation standards and updated tester insurance and

250
00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:02,880
 training requirements.

251
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,540
 Atmospheric vacuum breakers, that's a type of backflow preventer that is not testable.

252
00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:11,600
 We are no longer going to allow that in the city because as part of that annual requirement

253
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,920
 for testing, atmospheric vacuum breakers cannot be tested.

254
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,280
 Environment meter requirements are defined better, expanded staff inspection access is

255
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:26,560
 provided in order to do those cross connection surveys to ensure there's no unprotected connections.

256
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,400
 Staff have to be able to go out on site and ensure so we have expanded access.

257
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:39,280
 Emergency shut off procedures are defined, and service suspension is clarified for non-compliance.

258
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,920
 So some prior action, we did take this to a City Council work --

259
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:47,680
 Oh, sorry, before you go on, so if you're going to require the backflow preventer just

260
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,760
 off the meter in a residential application, how will it be protected from the weather?

261
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,720
 Will it be placed underground like the meter?

262
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,760
 So the required backflow preventer here must be above ground.

263
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,760
 It's called an RPZ or a reduced pressure principle backflow, and there is required to be weather

264
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,880
 proofing or weather protection around it.

265
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:12,720
 Okay, so that means that every home going forward there's going to be another box just

266
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,040
 off the street.

267
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,040
 This is strictly for commercial, or non-residential, so for homes this does not apply, but for

268
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,040
 apartment complexes --

269
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,480
 Oh, you mentioned irrigation systems with homes, and I was like, well, does that mean

270
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,160
 every home's going to have a meter just off the street in a box?

271
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,520
 No, sir, this is just for non-residential, so that would not apply to homes.

272
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,080
 Okay, thank you for the clarification.

273
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,640
 So along the same lines, a lot of irrigation systems, like home irrigation, yard irrigation

274
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,280
 systems use the, what are they called, the air, the ones that are not allowed, the air

275
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,280
 break?

276
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,120
 Yes, atmospheric vacuum breakers.

277
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:55,160
 So is that still allowed for like a residential irrigation installation?

278
00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:01,580
 Not for a new installation, PVB or pressure vacuum breaker, that would be required instead.

279
00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:04,600
 It's a very similar device, it's testable though.

280
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:05,600
 Okay.

281
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:06,600
 Yes.

282
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,400
 Any other questions?

283
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,520
 So prior action, we did take this to a council work session on February 3rd.

284
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,720
 Next steps, we're working right now with our development services group and our marketing

285
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:27,020
 and communications group to explain the proposed changes to the public.

286
00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:31,520
 On March 3rd, we're taking this to city council for individual consideration, and then we'll

287
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,900
 of course publish it in the Debt and Record Chronicle with an effective date proposed,

288
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:41,840
 if accepted, of March 17th.

289
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,360
 Any questions at this time?

290
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:52,120
 Could you go to slide five, please?

291
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,120
 Yes.

292
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,120
 Was it this one?

293
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,120
 Slide five.

294
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,120
 Oh, it's got numbers.

295
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,120
 Yes.

296
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:04,160
 So if you have a small contractor, commercial fellow that has five buildings and they all

297
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,760
 have individual water meters, then each one will have this backflow, correct?

298
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,760
 That is correct.

299
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,760
 Okay.

300
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:17,480
 And then, excuse me, slide eight for me.

301
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:25,200
 So on the residential domestic, I'm intrigued, and where I live, a lot of lines are being

302
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,280
 redone because of the age of the pipe and this, that, and the other.

303
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:33,880
 And so if they do that kind of structure where they put in a new water pipe, that activates,

304
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:38,000
 because they're not going to have the backflow yet, that activates the backflow apparatus

305
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,160
 to be put on then, is that correct?

306
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,040
 For residential, this would not apply, again-

307
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,840
 But I thought I'd heard you say if you were going to-

308
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:47,840
 Apartments.

309
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:48,840
 What?

310
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:49,840
 Apartment complexes.

311
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:55,720
 Apartments, but then houses, so if I'm putting in a new water line in my house, that's going

312
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,720
 to be, some have gotten new water meters.

313
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,840
 So if the water meter is replaced, is that going to be the triggering mechanism to have

314
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,280
 that put in for residential, domestic, whatever you want to call it?

315
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,520
 For commercial, the trigger would be a major plumbing, the whole site would have to have

316
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,300
 a major plumbing change.

317
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:18,140
 For commercial sites, there is typically a separate meter for irrigation only.

318
00:18:18,140 --> 00:18:21,440
 So that makes it a little different than residential, which typically there's one meter that supplies

319
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,120
 domestic to the house, as well as a branch for irrigation.

320
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:25,760
 Oh yeah, let me refocus.

321
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,720
 I was talking about domestic.

322
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:28,720
 Residential.

323
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:29,720
 Residential.

324
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,440
 And I'm putting in a pipe, and it's going to require a new meter, let's say.

325
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,440
 So a new meter is put in, and I have my new pipe.

326
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:49,100
 Am I going to have the new backflow at that point too?

327
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,080
 You just wanted to get me up here, didn't you?

328
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,720
 Stephen Gay, General Manager, Water Utilities and Street Operations.

329
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,400
 This ordinance deals specifically with the non-residential.

330
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,560
 To answer your question, it would fall under the building code, and that would be regulated

331
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,560
 by the building officials.

332
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,480
 So what we're talking about today has nothing to do with it.

333
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,600
 So we would have to go back to them to determine if it would trigger a requirement for them

334
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,560
 to upgrade their backflow assembly on their dedicated irrigation system on a residential

335
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,560
 connection.

336
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,560
 Does that answer it?

337
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,560
 Well, close.

338
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,040
 I want to ask another one to follow up.

339
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,040
 Ductail.

340
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,040
 Ductail.

341
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:34,520
 So it is on a case-by-case basis then with the building code has nothing to do with this.

342
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:35,520
 That's correct.

343
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,800
 I'll give you a personal example.

344
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,200
 So I recently upgraded my service at my home because my wife didn't like the fact that

345
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,120
 the backflow assembly that was installed was right in the middle of the yard.

346
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:47,280
 I didn't have to move it.

347
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,280
 I didn't have to do anything.

348
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,880
 I was just upgrading my water line, but I chose to at that point.

349
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,920
 I wasn't required by the building department to upgrade the irrigation.

350
00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:03,000
 At the same time, I upgraded my domestic connection or my service line.

351
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,000
 I chose to do that.

352
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,520
 And so we will have to go back to the building department to find out if in fact that they

353
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:14,880
 would require that, if an upgrade of a service line would trigger the installation of the

354
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:22,000
 backflow assembly or updating their irrigation system, but I think it's unlikely.

355
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,600
 So back to your question, which I didn't think about, are apartments considered domestic?

356
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,840
 Well, an apartment complex, that's a multifamily, that's a commercial connection.

357
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:39,240
 And so typically they would fall under the commercial, the non-residential type of category

358
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,200
 because it's more of a commercial connection.

359
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,500
 I appreciate that.

360
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:50,160
 My simple-minded thinking is I'd like for you to remove the domestic system completely

361
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,160
 since it's not residential.

362
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,400
 It seems to kind of bring itself back up needlessly.

363
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:03,240
 Well, the challenge with multifamily connections like that in apartment complexes is you have

364
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,760
 multiple uses, and that creates a level of threat to the distribution system.

365
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,180
 When you talk about a single-family residence, it's typically a single-family, right?

366
00:21:13,180 --> 00:21:14,180
 Right.

367
00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:17,840
 So two, what, three and a half people, right, a mother, father, and one and a half children.

368
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,560
 I think that's the stats.

369
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,960
 We're waiting for that picture now.

370
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,480
 We're waiting for that picture now.

371
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,800
 So the level of threat or the risk to the distribution system is greater when you have

372
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:36,120
 more connections or more use on a single connection, if that makes any sense.

373
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:37,120
 Great.

374
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:38,120
 Great.

375
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,800
 So could we go to, I'm through with that, could we go to slide number nine, please?

376
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:42,800
 Don't leave.

377
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:43,800
 I may have you again.

378
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,200
 Okay, thank you.

379
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,560
 So on the sprinkler systems, going back to your atmospheric, yes, vacuum, so that's the

380
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,120
 ones that stick up and come back down, and they're the ones I always have to cover because

381
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,640
 they usually break, and then I have water flowing all the time.

382
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,720
 Those are going to be replaced with what?

383
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,720
 A pressure vacuum breaker.

384
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,040
 It is about the same size.

385
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,040
 It looks very similar.

386
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,600
 It just is testable, so it has these little ports coming off the side of them.

387
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,620
 There's two ports, and that allows a tester to ensure it is working properly.

388
00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:18,640
 What happens is over time, they'll start to break down on the inside, and they won't function

389
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,720
 properly, so they won't be doing their job.

390
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,380
 So when they break down, which I know they will, then the sprinkler system company is

391
00:22:26,380 --> 00:22:28,960
 going to go in there, and they're going to put the new one in place.

392
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,960
 That is correct.

393
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,960
 Ideally, that would be.

394
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,960
 Ideally.

395
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,960
 Yes.

396
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,520
 But it's going to need as much protection to cold weather as this would, would it not?

397
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,040
 Yes, it will.

398
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,040
 Okay.

399
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,560
 And then if I could, let's see, that was slide.

400
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,160
 So now, I don't know if you already covered it or maybe it's coming, but what are we looking

401
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,800
 at construction costs?

402
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,440
 What kind of cost are we looking for, something like that, for your typical commercial?

403
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,480
 Sure.

404
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,080
 It varies dramatically by the materials used, by the type of backflow preventer it is, by

405
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,800
 the contractor that installs it, and it really does vary dramatically.

406
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,480
 For a typical three-quarter inch, say a small commercial site, a three-quarter inch can

407
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:13,440
 vary with the protection from the weather, can vary from $2,000 to $4,000.

408
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,560
 Okay, go ahead.

409
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:19,560
 Point of clarification.

410
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:20,560
 There's a disclaimer.

411
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,560
 What?

412
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,560
 Here comes a disclaimer.

413
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,560
 Yeah, can you tell?

414
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:24,560
 Point of clarification.

415
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,720
 I just want to punctuate that this is an update to an existing ordinance.

416
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,400
 We already require the installation of these devices.

417
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:39,160
 So we're not talking about a new financial burden that we're placing on a development.

418
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,780
 So I just want to make sure that that was communicated.

419
00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:45,000
 So this is not new.

420
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,800
 It's an update to an existing ordinance that we already enforce, and we already require

421
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,220
 the installation of these devices.

422
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:58,440
 So hopefully that helps.

423
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,440
 Your turn.

424
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,440
 Okay.

425
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,440
 Just a follow-up question.

426
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:09,760
 We talked about the replacement of these devices, and Mr. Rayner just mentioned his landscape

427
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,600
 irrigation guys putting it in.

428
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,720
 Does this require a plumber or a licensed plumber to put this in?

429
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:16,720
 Yes.

430
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,720
 That is an existing rule.

431
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,720
 That's an existing rule.

432
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,480
 Because I bet those guys aren't licensed plumbers most of the time.

433
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,900
 Well, there's a licensed irrigator, except I don't even know what that is.

434
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:33,720
 For the installation of a backflow prevention assembly, it has always been required for

435
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,480
 someone with a plumber's license to do the install.

436
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,480
 Okay.

437
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,480
 And permit?

438
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,480
 And a permit.

439
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,480
 Okay.

440
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,280
 Yes, they will.

441
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,720
 So the material could be $2,000 to $4,000, and then the rest of the land gap is to get

442
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:48,720
 it in the ground.

443
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,400
 That's whatever you can bid on the open market.

444
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,400
 I should clarify.

445
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,280
 The $2,000 to $4,000, that was for...

446
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,280
 Oh, it's a good range.

447
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:56,280
 I don't care.

448
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,120
 That was for the reduced pressure.

449
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,560
 That was for the most rigid and stringent backflow prevention assembly, and that was...

450
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,360
 The example was if you're going to put it at the meter.

451
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,980
 So that needs weather protection as well.

452
00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:09,980
 And back to your question.

453
00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:10,980
 I'm sorry.

454
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:12,280
 I thought I gave it.

455
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,280
 Okay.

456
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,720
 Did I miss something?

457
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,200
 No, I think...

458
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,320
 So this is commercial only?

459
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,760
 Not single-family residential?

460
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,760
 Correct.

461
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,760
 Okay.

462
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:23,760
 And so...

463
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,000
 And this is already a requirement?

464
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000
 We're just...

465
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,000
 You're making one adjustment.

466
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,640
 You can't use an atmospheric vacuum breaker.

467
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,760
 You have to use a pressure vacuum breaker.

468
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:31,760
 That is...

469
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:38,280
 That's correct, but for the ones at the meter across all new construction, that is an update.

470
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,280
 Right.

471
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,280
 I need to make that clear.

472
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,280
 Yeah.

473
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,280
 Yeah.

474
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,280
 So this is a change.

475
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,280
 You can't use one type.

476
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,280
 You have to use...

477
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,280
 One type is not allowed.

478
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,280
 You have to use one of the other types.

479
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,280
 Yes.

480
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,280
 Yeah.

481
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,280
 And so...

482
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,280
 And just to clarify.

483
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:57,280
 So 2,000 to 4,000, I think, includes installation costs because you can buy a three-quarter-inch

484
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,800
 non-atmospheric vacuum breaker for like $199 at Home Depot.

485
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,800
 I could.

486
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,800
 That's what I was just wondering.

487
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,560
 A lot of hands have been added to the formula.

488
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:09,560
 No offense.

489
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,320
 I'm not indicating or suggesting anything from the city.

490
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,320
 And these...

491
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,400
 Like the requirement to have a plumber sign off on a plumbing permit is not a new requirement?

492
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,400
 No.

493
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,400
 No.

494
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,400
 Okay.

495
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,400
 No.

496
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,400
 Okay.

497
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,400
 Thank you.

498
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,400
 Thank you.

499
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,400
 I'm through.

500
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,400
 Appreciate it.

501
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,400
 Of course.

502
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:30,400
 Thank you, everybody.

503
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,320
 Do you give staff any kind of guidance on the updated ordinance?

504
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,080
 I think our commissioners might have clarified it.

505
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,120
 Well, since it's already been to City Council, I don't think it really matters.

506
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,120
 Yeah.

507
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:43,760
 And it's my understanding that...

508
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,240
 We brought this to PUB for information only.

509
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,560
 PUB, I don't think...

510
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,560
 I'm not sure.

511
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,800
 Maybe Marcella could weigh in on it, but it's not really in the purview of PUB to recommend

512
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,120
 and/or adjust on the ordinances.

513
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,680
 It's more about the financial expenditures.

514
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,680
 That's my understanding.

515
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,680
 Right.

516
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:05,680
 So we're not posted for direction.

517
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,640
 So it can be a little simpler than going into what the charter requires the PUB to review,

518
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:22,840
 but the work session agenda item isn't posted for direction, just discussion.

519
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,880
 So that was exercised for your education, sir.

520
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,880
 That's what I wanted to know.

521
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,160
 I want to be ready for when the alarms go off.

522
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,360
 I believe all of our business is done, so we stand in adjournment.

523
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:40,360
 Thank you.

524
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:40,360
 Thank you.