Nov 12, 2019 City Council on 2019-11-12 2:00 PM

>> Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. We are here for today's work session. Beginning at -- it is 2 o'clock, I'll call a meeting in order. We're here in the work session room. Mayor Watts is on his way, running a little late, but we wanted to get started. And for those listening or those that are on their way, staff has been diligent to stream this meeting live in the city council chambers, so if there's someone listening that's one on their way or two in the hallway or something, that they can sit in the council chambers until space clears out in here. So with that, we will get started. We do have a quorum present. And first item on the agenda is the citizen's comments on the consent agenda items, but I think everything I've received is specific to -- what is that? Item -- I think all of these, yeah, 192760, and so we will take those at that time. If there's any other comments outside of that, if someone could let me know, but I don't see anyone moving, so we will move to our first work session. Oh, there we go. Thank you. Items for -- so this is a work session of one citizen's -- no, no, pardon me. Request for clarification and agenda items, which is item two on the agenda. So Council Member Armitage. So one of the things on the agenda for today is approval of the October 22nd minutes. Unfortunately, right now, my iPad is still loading them, but I just wanted some clarification about what exactly was decided at that meeting, because it has to do with the work session that is coming up on gas wells. So I'd be happy to address my concerns about that then, or could ask about it now. I'll leave that to the discretion of Council, but I just wanted to note to just mention that just in case that comes up during the discussion. Elaborate further? No, no, no. I guess I'm trying to elicit the -- what is the question? So I understand that -- So the question is, you know, what is -- what was -- Well, let me finish. So I understand the meeting date, and I understand the topic, but I don't know that I heard the succinct question so that the right staff member can come up and address that. So -- and again, unfortunately, it says downloading, it's still downloading, so I don't have it right in front of me, but it was my understanding that on October 22nd, we had a consensus on Council after I presented for a minute on some gas well safety-related issues. It was my understanding that there was a consensus on Council to move forward with a work session to discuss that. However, the work session that's related to gas wells today that's on the agenda is about whether or not we should proceed with a work session on what I thought we had already decided on October 22nd we were going to have a work session on. So I just wanted to just kind of get some clarification on that, but again, that doesn't have to be now, but since this is the opportunity to talk about the minutes before I vote yes to the minutes, I want to just make sure that I'm not voting yes to something that I disagree with. Okay. So City Manager, you sent out an e-mail regarding that and addressed that holistically, so I'll allow you to call whomever you think could speak to your e-mail or the contents in your e-mail that was in reply to that question. Yeah, I think Mayor Watts can clarify his own comments and he'll do that during the workshop, but during the agenda committee meeting, I asked the question, you know, what did, you know, were we moving forward with everything and what did not rehashing old subjects mean? And so his comment to us at the agenda committee meeting was that he was not in agreement with all the sub-components of that request, therefore wanted to talk about it again today and go through them one at a time, so it's placed back on the agenda, you know, and I had followed up with that initial question because I heard that caveat at the end of his speech there that he was not in agreement with rehashing old subjects, so we just simply need to know how to build the agenda and what subjects to put on it. Yeah, so -- Okay. And so I don't know that -- I'm trying to sort out -- I don't know that that's a minutes issue, but I understand it's time to raise it. So that question's been asked, will it -- so I guess we'll take that up when Mayor Watts gets here and allow him to speak to it so that we're not -- he can use his words to do that. So are there any other -- you have any other questions about the agenda? Okay. Councilmember Riggs. Yeah, on consent, item G about the joint operating agreement, I just want to -- I have a note here that mining is separated from everything else, so does this just -- this agreement just specifically talk about the mining aspect of it and not about any other -- because I know it's divided into several different -- okay. And what this does is really basically delegates to TNPA the ability to sell the entire mine track or pieces of those tracks without it necessarily coming back to the council for approval. Okay. I just want to make sure it was separated when any other asset -- Yes, ma'am. It's just the mine. Okay. And next question -- you should stay there probably -- I -- so is this -- because when we approved the gas plant, we were told that Aircott could just tell us to turn on -- turn it on whenever they needed it; is this the same thing or is this something different? I was having a hard time -- So this is specifically for an event if there was a blackout in the system, and so because of the nature of the plant that it has its own contained generation -- generator, it could actually be one of those facilities that actually starts up the Aircott system across the state of Texas, and so this is for that particular service only. Okay. I guess I just thought that that service was already there. Well, it's there, but there was no specific contract with Aircott, and so what this does basically for having that ability, Aircott then pays the city -- it's almost a million dollars over two fiscal years for just simply being available to them for Black Star purposes only -- Okay. -- in the event of an Aircott-wide blackout. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Tony. Councilmember Meltzer? On item C, I just couldn't really tell from the agenda information sheet whether this is funding generally the guardrail fund or if this is, as it appears, to be funding for a specific guardrail, and I would just be curious to know, as I imagine residents would be, just what guardrail it is that we're reconstructing. I have a second question as well, but not on this item. Yeah, this item is to restock the guardrail inventory. Quite a bit of our guardrail inventory was used last year on Hickory Creek. Okay. Yeah. I thought $100,000 would be a lot for a guardrail. That's helpful. And just on the point of the minutes, I think the sort of to-the-point response would be to just look at the minutes and see what does it say regarding the conclusion of that item, but I can't open it either, and I can't say I remember from my review, but I'd be interested to know just what do the minutes reflect about that item. Did you get it open? Sorry. Without Internet. I turned off Internet, then it came up. Okay. Well, yeah. Just make that observation. Certainly. And we'll take that up. And then, are there any other questions, consent agenda items? Okay. Seeing none. We will-now, Mr. City Attorney, how do I-so with respect to revisiting F, when Mayor Watts gets here, that's the minutes. I think one of the things, as I listen to the question, this-I think it would be the caption on today's work session 3D is broad enough to actually ask that question at the outset, and so I've communicated that to Councilmember Armentor, and do you agree with that? Maybe that might be the appropriate time to discuss that. Yes. Got it. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. So that will take us to work session item 3, number 3, work session reports, and first up is A, ID 191721, receive a report, hold discussion, and give staff direction regarding the Subsidy and Resource Allocation Study for the Parks and Recreation Department. Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council, Gary Pack, and Director of Parks and Recreation. Here to present to you today our Subsidy and Resource Allocation Study. This is a study that we started in partnership with Green Play. Green Play will jump up here in a little bit and talk during the presentation, but also-we started this in the summertime during our peak season, staff was heavily involved in all aspects of our organization, and a number of them are here today, so I'd like to thank them for their time and effort to get us to this point. The Subsidy and Resource Allocation Study, often you'll hear it labeled as a cost recovery study. We're looking at it from a different perspective, but those verses kind of go hand in hand with each other. It's a complex process to kind of reshaping how we work and how we look at how we work and how we allocate our general fund support, the tax dollars that we receive for our organization for all of our programs, whether it's general park maintenance all the way up to a specific one-on-one program for our tennis center. It's also a continuously evolving process in regards to molding the clay. It's something that there's no set process across the entire organization or across the industry. Every community is different, so we're trying to develop a model specifically that fits Denton and Denton specifically and how we operate. This process will also help us during difficult economies to help us make sure that we're operating efficiently, as well as when other restrictors are placed on the department in regards to we only have so much funding we can use, we can actually look internally with how we're allocating our resources in order to operate the best and efficiently as effectively as we can. Specifically the purpose of the study is to develop a framework for future planning, budgeting, and resource allocation, to educate staff and the general public about the cost recovery or resource allocation philosophy. It's also a foundation for decision-making that is fair and equitable to the tax-paying community as well as the individual users of our programs, and it's an efficient and effective business tool that we can use to evaluate really everything we do in our organization. To make sure that we're on track with our project goals and our cost recovery or our allocation targets, and also allows us to change with the community. As the community grows, the population changes, the interest changes in our programs, we can make those evolving changes as well. So if Chris could come up from Green Play, walk us through a couple of slides. Thank you, Gary. I'm Chris Rapinski from Green Play, council member and city manager. It's my pleasure to be here and be working with the department and with the community. I wanted to tell you just a little bit about Green Play, that our company was built out of a need to be more sustainable and more accountable in helping parks and recreation departments be that way, and we have a tagline that we use for that, which is we want to balance our entrepreneurial spirit, but with our public sector heart, so we don't forget what public parks and recreation is all about, but we are looking at taking a little bit more business-like approach for that accountability purpose. So we're celebrating 20 years this year, and for many of those years, we have been working specifically on this kind of work all across the country. Our plan is all about sustainability, equity, and accountability. It's a subsidy and resource allocation study, but it's got a cost recovery philosophy underlying it. With that, we need to have a common language in how we talk about these ideas and these topics, because words can have different meanings. So I wanted to explain what some of those were. So cost recovery, first of all, it's a measurement of revenues divided by expenses. It's just a measurement. It's not dictating any particular thing. So 0% cost recovery equals 100% subsidy level. 100% cost recovery would be 0% subsidy level. So it doesn't mean that there's a goal of 100% recovery of costs. It just means that we're going to take a measurement and work towards specific goals, which could range from 0% to over 100%. Other terms here that we're using, revenue, in order to measure that, we have to have a way of tracking it when it comes in. Our systems in public parks and recreation are very well set up with registration software systems that allow you to do that, so all the revenues are assigned to specific programs and services. On the expenditure side, it gets a little bit more tricky, because our systems are not set up to do that. So we spend out of relatively large buckets of money, and it's harder to know exactly what the true cost of a service is until you get in there and do some work to allocate those costs. So that's what has been happening in this process as part of it. And those costs are broken up into direct costs of programs, which are the easiest to figure out. We're staffing the supplies and maybe some specific contracted services that take place when services are offered. But then we have indirect costs and overhead costs, and those indirect costs are shared program expenses. And they have to get allocated across each of the programs, and so that's done by taking the same percentage of the expense of the service and what that's costing. It takes the full cost of what's being allocated and spreads it across the programs based on the level of the expenditure of that program. And then overhead costs, those are shared across the department as well. Things like insurance, marketing, fuel charges, and those are also split in the same way. But that gives you your total cost of expenses, and then you take the revenue and divide it by the expense to come up with that cost recovery number. So there are no common definitions, unfortunately, of indirect and overhead costs, so either on a national level or even a regional level. Everybody defines those differently because it really is dependent on how your system is set up to track those kinds of costs and how easy it is to get at the information. So somebody may have a cost recovery number or a subsidy number of what's used to support programs, and it may mean something totally different in another organization. So we only deal with your organization when we're doing these studies. So the model itself, you can switch to the next, am I switching, okay, thank you. It's really a framework for a discussion in decision making. It's not a one size fits all prescriptive tool. But what the model represents in the five tiers that are shown here is how the services that you offer benefit the community as a whole, balanced with how the individual or individual group who's using the services is also benefiting from that service. So there's a continuum that runs up and down the left-hand side. And you can see that the mostly community benefit tier is on the bottom and the mostly individual benefit tier is on the top. So we believe that every service that you offer benefits the community. There's no question about that. It benefits the community to some degree. It's the degree to which the individuals benefit when they partake in those services or an individual group that really makes the difference and how programs are sorted out onto the tiers of this pyramid. We're looking at a- >> No, I was going to wait till then, we'll hit a complete, yeah, no, I think that's fine. One question, Councilmember Maxwell. >> Yeah, I'm just curious on the choice of model, you could show a continuum a number of ways and you choose a pyramid that suggests that there's a bigger mass to the things that are mostly community benefit and that there are relatively few things that are mostly individual benefit, is that what you're intending to convey? >> Yes, that's generally very true. And that's why we picked a pyramid model to do that. Because that bottom level is very foundational, it holds the rest of it up. And we've been able to do things in public parks and recreation over time that move up that pyramid, because we were able to use other sources of funding to make it happen. And so you're absolutely right on target. So the philosophy, sorry, was there another one? >> No, thank you. >> You're welcome. The philosophy behind the model says several things. One is it says that there's a basic level of service that's provided for free, if you will. But that really means it's supported by tax revenues, there's no additional charges for that. But it also says that fees are a responsible and necessary supplement to that in order to meet the demands and needs of a community. It says that the community benefit, where the community benefits means that the use of tax dollars makes the most sense. But the individual benefits is where the use of fees makes the most sense. The greater the individual benefit, the higher the cost recovery, or the lower the subsidy amount used to support a given program. This policy considers or allows for the economic climate, alternative providers who are out there in the marketplace, collaborators, and even market rates. So there are other things at play than just a strict cost recovery, but they all have to be taken into account. And then the last element of this is that fee reductions are available for those with economic need. So it never gets to the point that it leaves people out because they can't afford to pay. That's in your system now and would continue to be in your system with the use of this model. So as we said before, the bottom of it is the foundation, the services that benefit the entire community, the top of it. There's still community benefit, but much higher level of individual benefit when people take up the services. So the next slide, thank you. So this study really now would become an ongoing way of doing business or carrying out the duties of the department. It started with establishing the model, and that's really where we are right now. So there was an orientation for staff on the model and its use. With staff, we created what we call categories of service. So we took everything that the department does and put like things together. And normally when you think of the services of a parks and recreation department, they're thought of in terms of there's sports, there's arts, there's aquatics, there's all these different things that go in columns. We cut across the other way and look at it more like the public would look at it. What are the things that my eight year old son can partake in? What are the things that seniors partake in, regardless of what the topic area of recreation is? And we do that because recreation means so many different things to different people. But we put those like things together, and then through much discussion and deliberation, we sorted those categories onto these pyramid levels. And then on a parallel track, we compiled, and this was a lot of work for staff to be commended on this. But compiled and allocated the financial data for each of the programs and services offered. So we were able to measure the current levels of subsidy that are used to support the services. And then we were able to identify, at least initially, what are the outliers? What's not fitting with the tiers on the model? So we can take a closer look at those. So after the city council gives the go ahead for this kind of direction, implementation will start. So that's the next big bullet up there. Giving the go ahead for this direction is really an acceptance of the direction. It does not change in any way the current fee adjustment processes nor policy revision processes. Those would still go through the same process that they've always gone through. But it doesn't change at all the role that city council plays in approving or weighing in on different things that the department does in regard to those policies. So I just want to make sure you understand that that doesn't change by approving this general direction. But what will happen with implementation, the first year of implementation, there's a lot of learning that's still going on. There's a lot of data that we've generated now that exists and is at the fingertips of the department. But there's more to be learned about, okay, now that we have this data, what is it telling us? And we need to look closer in some areas to see what's really going on. So staff will be looking at potential modifications to programs or services. To where things are assigned to categories and where those categories are assigned to tiers. So those could shift slightly as they really look into what's being offered and how it's being offered and different ways of looking at the services that they provide. There could be changes in how the costs are allocated. They may find that that by percent of the expense of a program isn't quite accurate enough. And they may want to further refine that, which could change the calculation of the subsidy levels. So we think some things will happen in this first year that might change the outcome of this model and process a little bit. And after the first year, then it kind of settles in and it just becomes a way of doing business and there's usually just minor tweaking from there. So the third bullet there is to evaluate and analyze. And this is a continuing process every year of checking in on how the department is doing in best meeting the needs of the community. So there are input mechanisms for the community to participate through participant evaluations, stakeholder focus groups, surveys, things like that, that are continuing to keep the department on track with what it's offering and how those are offered. There's performance measures that are set into place and the department will continue to look at cost saving measures. But that's just an annual ongoing evaluation process. And along the way, there will be refinements and adjusting that occurs. Looking at fee adjustments, potential, looking at tracking of dollars and how they're used. And can there be improvements made in the way or more helpful things done in the way of tracking costs so this isn't such a manual effort in the long run. Looking at anytime there's capital development, that the ongoing costs, the maintenance costs, the staffing costs are well identified up front so we know how things are going to run over time. Looking at new funding sources, which is another mechanism of recovering costs. And looking at all policies and agreements to see if those can be changed in any way that would help with the delivery of service to the public. So with that, one last slide. And this is the model completed for Denton. So there's 29 categories of service and they've been placed on the tier levels according to those benefits received, as I spoke about earlier. And they're measured for their subsidy level. So next to each of the line items in the boxes, there is a subsidy level that's indicated by the percent number. And then at the top, those larger ranges, those are set up as targets for that particular level of the pyramid. So that's what ultimately, based on the philosophy of the model, you want to be shooting for, for programs and services on each of those levels. So the levels were measured and then the targets were established. And again, we're looking for outliers. When there are outliers, it's not just about fee adjustments. That's one response to, to meeting the targets. But there are other service delivery mechanisms that can be taken into account. And Gary's going to go back now to take a look at some of these tier levels and some of the outliers that are on the tier levels to see where they came out and what some possible responses to those may be. So we've got in your bottom level here, you've got your park and facility and trail use, that's a very basic service offering of parks and recreation departments, very large community benefit out of those. And I'll just go to the top then and mention the other end of this, which is your highly individualized category or tier level of services, which can include things like your private and semi-private lessons, lending and concessions, your facility rentals, driving range bucket sales, water park admissions, things like that. So that sort of sets the anchors for the model. Now the chart on the left, just to point that out, is the revenues by each tier. So that's, we did this all on one full year of actual data. So you've got the revenues that equate to each of those tiers and the expenses that equate to each of those tiers. So you can see the volume of activity that's occurring at each level. >> Thank you. We have one question, Councilmember Armitage and Councilmember Riggs. >> So I like the idea of focusing on community benefit. But I think looking at the way these tiers are arranged, that we're all going to have our different interpretation of what community benefit means. And I would love to have that conversation as a city council. Just looking at tier five, which is the 0% subsidized level. I look at, for instance, water park admissions, 0%, this is a huge. So for me, I would put that on tier one, because it is the place in the city to go in the summer, in addition to our, yes we do have civic center pool, but water park has other kinds of facilities. Where families can go when it's so hot that the only way to be outside and have fun is in the water, so the costs are already controversial. They've been brought down a bit and that led to increased admissions. I could go on and on about that in detail, but I'll just leave it at that for one. Also ball field rentals, I know that at the very least we have a soccer league here, who yes, they're a private soccer league. But they serve primarily low income families, and they're already struggling with the cost to do business in Denton. So I couldn't, and I know we're just getting direction now. But I couldn't give direction to go forward on the tiers as they're arranged now. But I do like the idea of having a tier system. However, I'm nervous about kind of cost recovery model for parks in general. But I don't mind that for things like doggy birthday parties, which I heard that we were doing. And at first I was opposed to that, and then I found out that this is something that could help fund the things that are of more community benefits. So if that's the case, then great. But I also kind of am nervous about what seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that the focus on kind of cutting down costs in parks is on programming. To me, programming and what our rec centers do is so essential, so I wonder why are we not looking at other areas to look and to come up with a similar tier system other areas within parks department. Where pesticide use, for instance, is just one thing. Yeah, I'm wondering if you could answer that. Or maybe if that would be better discussed in the end, that would be fine, too, with however. >> Yeah, didn't I? I think I heard you say that Gary's going to speak to the tiers coming up. Yeah, so we'll get to that later. >> Yes, okay. >> Yeah, Council Member Briggs. >> Yeah, my comments are for Gary. >> Okay, yeah, so we can get through the presentation and then we'll get them all. Okay, we provided some samples on each tier in regards to potential adjustments for each one. So tier two, a couple examples, community events, our parade, our egg hunt, our jubilee on the holiday. We could make some adjustments by, we could charge a fee for the parade if we wanted to. We could look at sponsorship, we spent a lot of time working on a donation and sponsorship policy and the naming rights policy that we're still working with council on. Where those are opportunities that we could work with partnering agencies to help generate some revenue. That would be interested in sponsoring type of activities like that. Adapted rec dance, well this is a tier two, we have really low fees there. It's something we could look at and we could look at our market rate in regards to other entities that provide that service to see where we are. And then on tier three, we could look, our rec passes are $10, it's been 10 years, I think eight years since we've raised those. That is an adjustment that we could look at doing. We could make smaller increments on a regular basis instead of jumping, I think we went from five to ten at that point in time. Instead of jumping to 15, maybe it's $11 or just smaller increments if we wanted to make an adjustment such as that. Our full day preschool, we do have other providers in the industry that provide that, both private and public. That's something we could look at where we look for partnering agencies for that. We could increase promotion to increase our capacity in those programs. So we can look at our capacities in our programs and identify those that are not full. If we promoted those more, could we increase our participation levels to help improve our cost recovery? Tier four, our sports association facility use agreements. That is something I think Councilman Armitage had mentioned. That's 4%, or 96, current subsidy level. That's an outlier, we realize that. We put it in the appropriate category based on our staff input. That's a big challenge, so that probably isn't something that we're going to be able to address to get it into the percentage. But realizing it, that's an outlier, and we could look at that long term. Kayaking is an example of a program that we're doing at our water park. We do have kayaking programs that are actually on Lake Louisville and in our local creeks. We thought there could be better use of that space since pool space is limited, both on time and space. That we probably reallocate that and go to our outdoor programs and use that pool space for something else. Our youth softball program, participation has been low. We're having conversations with a local sports organization where they might be interested in providing that, where they could do that more efficiently. They already have some of the mechanisms in place to do that, so that's an opportunity of kind of working with a fellow provider. And then Farm to Table is a successful camp that we started recently. We had 20 people on a waiting list, so we couldn't fit enough in there. So are we priced too low? Is that something we need to adjust? In addition to, do we find more space to offer that program so we satisfy that interest and need? And that's a good example of programs go through life cycles. And if we offer a zombie camp and you brand it with kids like zombies now, five years from now they may not. They may be into something else. So it gives us an opportunity to look at our programs on a regular basis truthfully every year to identify if we're changing with the community. And then tier five, some of the examples there, athletic fields. We're at $15 and $25 for field usage. We've done some analysis on other communities. We're definitely towards the lower end. That's an option that we could do from a fee increase standpoint if we wanted to consider that. Driving range, to look at expanding our revenue opportunities there. City Council provided funding for a ball dispenser so we could actually expand our hours of usage and reduce some of the staff time so we're not there all day when it may be slow so we can kind of program our staff towards high traffic times. So that's an opportunity for where we could generate more revenue to offset some of our expenses. And then water park concessions, there's an opportunity there. We opened up the water park concessions two years ago. We're still working on refining our operations there. We've made improvement this year, but that's something we'll continue to look at. Whether it's looking at the type of food we provide, the cost that it's labeled at, and other things we could provide. So from a timeline standpoint, we provided this presentation to our park recreation beautification board in October. And they recommended us to move forward and come to City Council for discussion. We're seeking City Council's feedback and direction on our parks and recreation subsidy resource allocation as well as the percentage targets. So that pyramid and the targets that we've identified. In the near future, we'd be working with Park Board and City Council to finalize our cost recovery report and adopt a cost recovery policy that would kind of put that in writing in regards to how we're going to operate. So we can give that clear direction to staff. And that is basically the pyramid model that's been provided to you today. In the next three to six months, we would start working on some of the items that we've suggested or other ones provided by council in regards to preparing for next fiscal year. So we can help offset some of the increased expenses that we have. Not just from a revenue standpoint, but also from an operating standpoint where we can find out where we can be more efficient. Where we can reduce expenses. Where we can identify partners. Where we can identify sponsors or donors to our programs to help offset some of those costs. So we can improve our allocation throughout our organization. And then we'll continue to analyze programs and implement those adjustments based on the methodology and the resource allocation targets that we've provided to you, and then continue to refine that as we go through. But the goal would be to have something for you to come back in the next few months for when we start our next budget cycle to help improve our department and use the resources we have in a more effective and efficient manner. Not saying we don't do that today, but there's always ways and areas that we can improve upon. >> Councilmember Briggs and then Councilmember Armitter. >> So a few questions and comments. I appreciate the presentation. I've said from the start, I don't necessarily believe that parks should be full cost recovery, so I like the tiers. And when I look at the individual programs, so personal training, yes, I understand that that needs to be tier five probably. But I have an issue with full K, pre-K, half day and full day going up to higher cost recovery. That's more on a personal experience because I was able to put my children in preschool because I could afford it. And if we talk about there's other competition in the city, right, but it's very expensive. And so I don't think that, while I appreciate the tiers, I don't think that we actually realize the community benefit and some of these other programs that we have for our kids here, and that could even go up to the rec passes. I know that $10, but when you have three to five kids, that's $30 to $50 if you want all your kids to go. But when you allow them to do that, you're keeping them from doing other things. And they're going into the gym, and they're playing with their friends, they're establishing relationships, and they're in the community. Also, the balls that they have aren't perfect. I mean, but I'm saying, so there's lots of value there that I don't think that this pyramid captures so much. I understand where we're coming from, but if I were to come in and reevaluate some of the items in the tiers, I would change them. I would not necessarily make the beautification of non-park facilities 100% cost recovery. I'd rather see preschool down there. That's just my comments. >> Councilmember Armitage? >> Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I don't think it's a coincidence that two moms on council happen to feel the same way without having talked to each other about this item. Full day preschool, summer camps, these are, yes, there is competition for a full day preschool. But a full day preschool is expensive everywhere. And I know that even our city staff with young kids struggle to have their kids in preschool and summer camps that our own city provides for them. I think that this problem could be solved. I mean, if we agree it's a problem, I think it's a problem as far as assignment of tiers. My comment last time I started, but looking at the last tier. But I think the problem could be solved by surveying the community, talking to the community, and getting a lot of community feedback about what the community considers the highest benefit to them, if that's what we're talking about. And my guess is, of course, I don't know what they would end up saying, but I think it would be a lot closer to my understanding as a council member of how the community feels, and also how I feel as a parent. And as someone who thinks that parks shouldn't be about cost recovery and that the people who benefits most from parks are our low income families who are enabled through programming, or I should say low to mid income families, who can benefit from this programming, where even if there's competition elsewhere, that they can't afford to do it in the private sector, and right now can barely afford to do it here. >> Council member Davis. >> So I kind of want to speak in favor of the model as a whole. I think it's a good way to organize our thoughts and organize the way we talk about things. I could see us using this model in other parts of the city government as well. We talk about how costs should be allocated and really how the burden of carrying a program forward should be allocated. Whether it's all of us, for instance, the park facilities, the things that nobody pays a fee to use all the way at the bottom, the applications are kind of endless, honestly. So I'm very much in favor of the pyramid model. I want to kind of talk about tier three for a second though. Tier three is kind of a middle ground between these different ideas of fully subsidized at the bottom and very, very low subsidies at the top. That's where right now the pre-k programs are under the information we got in our backup and then also earlier in the slide. So I'm comfortable with that because it gives us a big range for those programs, we're between 30 and 60%. And some of those pre-k or some of the camps, the parents stay out kind of stuff or the school holiday camps, some of those are aimed directly at our lower income demographics, that's why they exist. Others of them are not. Others of them are just kids who are out from school, don't have something else to do. Child care is hard to find for a Labor Day or Columbus Day weekend or something like that. So I'm okay with the range that we've got there in tier three to work with those programs. Some of those programs need to be at 60%, others of those programs do not need to be a 60% subsidy. And when I look at the breakdown that we got from staff, that has the range as a spreadsheet and you look at the individual subsidies for those programs, a huge percentage of those are right in line with that range that we're looking at for tier three. There are a couple of outliers, very few of them. On the youth sports leagues that we have facility utilization agreements with, I frankly would rather see those in tier three than in tier four. And I know staff's spent a long time kind of looking at how we cover some of these things and who's utilizing them. But there's been a lot of compression in youth sports. You don't have a lot of options as a parent. You can put your kid in an expensive travel league or you can put them in a city league or hopefully something like for instance, Denton Boys Baseball exists in your town or the Denton Soccer Association exists in your town. So I think there's a lot of community benefit to, and we all know the benefits of having your kids in athletics. I think there's a lot of community benefit to having more of our kids in athletics and able to participate in those things. So I don't have a problem with subsidizing the utilization agreements a little bit more like the ones we have with Denton Soccer Association and Denton Boys Baseball. I'd be fine with those in tier three. >> Councilmember Briggs. >> No, I would also agree with that. I see many comments and many questions, where can I put my child in sports that I don't have to pay an arm and a leg in? And a lot of the sports are getting very high competition and there's a lot of select and there's a lot of things that some parents just don't want to put their kids in, they just want them to do rec league. And if that moves up a tier, it may make it impossible for sports to be played here in Denton. So I would agree with that tier. Move on. >> Councilmember Bomder. >> Yeah, just to pick up on that, I know that there's, at least last I heard, there's a city soccer league, right, public soccer league. And in talking, I'm just using this as an example. In talking to the major private soccer league team we have here that preceded that. It's been gone way back, I think, to the 70s and even provided a little building that's over there in North Lakes. They, the last I heard, they were open to getting together with the city. And instead of being a competing league with the public league, getting together in a way that would help to reduce costs for everybody's. And so a solution like that, I'm just using that as one example, could help to reduce costs while meeting the goal of community benefit. But again, that's, if we're defining community benefits such that we see, as I do, as I was hearing from Councilmember Briggs, as I believe I heard from Councilmember Davis, community sports is at least closer to the bottom. I mean, there's so much I would put in tier one. And I wanted to follow up also, if I may, on, this is more of a question for a city manager. Following up on something Councilmember Davis said that I agree with and about this being a neat model, whether I, even though I disagree with how it's been allocated, how maybe community benefit might be defined. Is there a reason why Parks is the department that's kind of getting this treatment? And is there an interest in applying this model, community benefit versus individual, I mean, for me, I would think of it as private, public benefit versus private benefit, but I'll use these terms, community versus individual, to other departments, because I do think that that model could really, really help. >> And I take a little issue with the comment about getting treatment. Parks is probably at the, they have by far the most individual programs out there of any department. And this is very similar model, quite frankly, what we put together in all the utilities for cost of service. It's just simply trying to have a discussion. This is really just a cost of service model. It's a little bit more, obviously, subjective than the utilities are, in terms of where you might want to place these services, in terms of how you value the programs. But any department that is heavily program based, this is going to be a very similar thought process. It's really the only way to really get your hands around the programming aspect of Parks, because every city council is going to view this lineup very differently. >> Okay, and thank you, and so I appreciate that comment. I guess, I don't quite, so I understand how the cost of service model is a part of this, the cost recovery idea. But, and I probably should have been clear, what I meant about what I like about this is just the tiers. Never mind, pretend that it wasn't even about cost recovery, but looking at what every department offers, also never mind programming versus other things, but looking at what we do as a city government. Since our job is to serve the community about what do we do, for instance, in our utilities. Providing water, providing trash collection, recycling, it's great community benefits. So, I would, anyway, I would just encourage looking at it this way elsewhere, with cost recovery aside. >> Council member Elsa. >> Yeah, I think it's a useful model. I think you're hearing some pushback, I bristled that too, when I saw cost recovery now, this is all about recovering costs. We sort of named it for the smallest piece of it, not characterizing where the bigger piece of it is. You probably get a little less pushback if it was called the subsidy model. You know, name it for the thing that we're positive. But I think it's a helpful model, and I think we're capable of debating which tiers things go in. And I would just suggest that when we get into the finer points of your recommendations later on, that if it's somewhere in the middle and we're comparing to something that's already offered in the marketplace, that we just, well, we have a discussion on what our purpose is in having it, even though it's in the marketplace. We just have the benchmarks out there, maybe we want to have something that's free when other things are $100. Or maybe we want to be at half price or whatever, but just to be aware of what the context is. >> Council member Raff. >> Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I see this as a baseline, a starting point, and if you look back to the previous slide on there, in our implementation, we're talking about reassignment of costs, recalculation of recovery costs. So this is just a starting point in my mind that some of these things will change places. I don't know what all's involved in ball fields, but right now we're saying we're doing 68% supplementing them, they're substituting 68%. That might be something that is, you know, the mowing and et cetera that will end up getting shifted. And this model may look a little different next year as we come to budgetary time in making decisions on where fees may need to go up or come down. >> Right, absolutely. So just to kind of try to answer a few questions or follow up on a couple comments. The process we went through was everything from parks administration all the way down to our program coordinators. In regards to building that consensus in the organization of getting an idea where we should start with the tiers in the categories of service. By no means does that mean this is a done deal, this is the last opportunity, it will be an ongoing evaluation. Hopefully after the course of one year, we can start refining that a little bit better so we don't have to make drastic changes as we move forward. We can kind of start honing in on those tiers and make those adjustments. It'll also give us an opportunity to look at when, how can we mow better? We're talking about mowing city wide and bringing that kind of an organized approach. Maybe that makes us more efficient, saves money, therefore it saves money on our costs for this. You mentioned about IPM and practices and what we're doing there in regards to how we can provide quality product. In regards to turf and safety of our fields and a product that people are still excited to use. How can we be more efficient with our programs? How do we market them better? How we can get more people in the door so we can kind of spread those expenses out and have some revenue offsetting? How can we look at our partners and see where a partner can step in and help us provide a service or do it better than we're doing? How we can outsource with just contracting certain things. So like example, our tennis center, we have tennis pros that do a lot of our programming. That's a way that we can help provide high quality service and lessen the burden of the cost from us. So there's not one angle to look at this. We're looking at it multiple ways and it's an ongoing look. It's not, this is a snapshot in time to give staff some direction in regards to where we should aim to be. We may not get, some of these things we may be able to get to in one year. Some of these targets we may not be able to get to ever. But we could still work on molding the clay of how we provide those services to improve year by year. So it's more of a business approach at what we do as opposed to just a solid emotional approach. By looking at our expenses and revenues on a regular basis, including our indirect and our overhead costs. So we can operate more efficiently. We realize that back in the probably 60s and 70s before I was in the industry, parks and recreation provided mostly a free service and Chris you can chime in. But as over the past 50 years that's changed, revenue has more been engaged into that service. So we realize to do everything that we want to do, we can't do it all for free. And that at some time there's got to be some indirect revenue sources, fees and charges, sponsorship, donations, scholarships. Those types of things to offset some of those expenses for the community. >> I know we need to move on, but I just have a clarifying question. So if it says here, subsidy 100%, say like on water aerobics. Does that mean that that's completely free, a free service? Okay, so anything that says 100%, it's currently free for the public to access. >> Yeah, it's being subsidized 100%. So for instance, if you're coming into the urban forestry program, there's no expense then. That's a service that we provide. That's being subsidized 100%. So that's why you see those mostly community benefits at the bottom where you can go out and just use the trails for frisbee, pickup, that type of thing. Once you get in the more programming, and you get more specialized up the pyramid, the subsidy starts to be reduced. >> Councilmember Omidra? >> So I would love to see if other council members feel as I do that community input would be essential in determining community benefit. I think that's what we're really talking about. Again, if this is just talking about subsidizing costs, then I feel like it's then it's not useful for me to see it as community benefit. But if we're actually talking about community benefit versus how much cost gets subsidized, we need to get input from the community on this. So I would love to hear what others think about this. And finally, I just want to respond to the idea that business model. I love the idea of cutting costs anywhere we can to keep taxes down. That's the goal of mine. But I worry about business model, again, depends what you mean by that. But businesses, of course, want to subsidize their costs because they want to make a profit. And we as a government, we're not a business. And I actually see our job as community benefit, which is what I love about this tier system, in theory, anyway. So I just wanted to mention, I for one, am wary about any kind of business model for something that government does. But I love the idea of looking where we can cut costs. >> Mayor Pro Tem. >> Yeah, I'll speak to that briefly. Just the last point, not the last point, the previous, the earlier point. There's been no department in the city that I'm aware of that has been more in contact with the community than parks. Gary and his team has been on a worldwide tour with his counterfeit money, having people stuff the boxes for, I think it's been going on for a better part of a year. So there's no department that has, maybe outside the library, the library's pretty good about it. But this department has been in the community at every rec center, at every event, at every group with those boxes. What do you want, everything from ice rinks to playgrounds, I mean they have been. So I just don't want people that have not been following you around to get that feeling that you have not taken a significant pulse of the community. And look forwardly looking and presented options that may never come to fruition. But just kind of you heard, hey, this may be a thing, or this is a thing somewhere, and that was included. So, and it's blind, it's prompted, there's presentations, it's all the above. And so I just didn't want to let that go unaddressed. >> Yes. >> I want to clarify too on the business model part of that. I mean we've struggled with that word just because it sort of implies the profit making model and all of that. And we absolutely are not going down that path. The business model to us, a more business like approach really is about accountability, transparency. It's about generating data to make decisions on and having that at your fingertips. That's what we mean by a more business like approach. And it's not been in our public parks and recreation departments. And to some degree, it's very hard because our governmental accounting systems are not set up to allow us to be this way. So it takes a lot of manual effort in order to generate that data to make decisions on. But that's really what we mean by business model. And 0% cost recovery or 100% subsidy is a very valid goal for certain types of efforts. And so it's not about generating money in that way. On the other hand, this takes me back a little bit, I said we've been doing this for 20 years. And some of the conversations we've had along the way were when economic times were not good. And councils were sitting there trying to figure out where are we going to cut. Because we've got to cut things now because there's not enough tax dollars to go around to support these things. And we find from doing surveys with communities across the country, and I think without exception, that people would rather pay to have the thing that they want than to not pay and not have it. And pay more for higher quality. So to some extent, that's true as well. And certainly we have the folks with economic need and we want to be able to support them. But if you're able to generate the income, the revenues that can be used to support the programs that it's appropriate to use that for, freeing up tax dollars to be used to help those with more economic need. And to provide the other kinds of services that benefit the community as a whole, that's the place you want to be. So this is a great time to have this conversation when you're not in the face of really bad economic circumstances. But it still is not the easiest conversation to have. And one last thing I would say, we really don't want to confuse the benefit issue with the importance of programs and services. Because if you go down that path of looking at what's most important, you'll never get to the end of that conversation when it comes to public parks and recreation services. So we have to have another way of looking at it, because everything is important. It's important to somebody. But how do we fund it? What's the best way to do that so that this department can be sustainable over time? Because expenses are going to continue to go up, and you've got to be able to make those adjustments. And some of them may be fee increases, but there are lots of other avenues to take as well. And I think there was one last comment about the programs with 0% cost recovery expectation or that are 100% subsidized. You didn't see those up here because they're not outliers. They don't show up that way. But it's not that they aren't going to be looked at, because there can be cost saving measures in those as well. Those are looked at all the time because those expenses are going up all the time. The department has to continually look at how do we continue to provide this service? Because the demand for services is only going up, and it goes up in bad economic times. Matter of fact, it can be even higher in bad economic times for public parks and recreation services. So it's complex. There's a lot of things going on, and the model is the framework for the discussion about it. So this is great to have the discussion, but we have to have a framework in order to think about it. >> I would just add that language matters and can be a problem for people. So some people hear the word business, they assume it means cut costs, make money. And I think what I'm hearing is professional management, which means eyes open, clarity about goals and resources, and not doing it sort of by instinct, and I think that's the right way. I think probably several of us have worked managing non-profits too. You've got to just, if you don't have clarity about goals, what it costs to reach them, what are your resources, then you're not going to do a good job of achieving those goals. So I think it's just a good eyes open framework, and it'll help us have clear discussions, so I applaud it, thanks. >> Okay, so I'm hearing the direction is to move forward at least with this model, and then, as you stated, there'll be times when we come back for specific direction on specific programs and things such as that during the budgetary process, etc. All right, okay, thank you. Okay, is our translator here? Yeah, if you'll, I'm just going to take a break first, okay. Okay, all I'm going to do, Norman, is tell if we're going to take a break. We're going to take about a five minute break, so we're going to take a five minute break, and we're going to move the agenda item C, which is the Green Tree Estates, up to the next item. So that's basically what I need to translate. >> [FOREIGN] >> Thank you. [FOREIGN] >> Welcome back to this meeting of the Dent City Council on November the 11th, it is 3, 12 PM. >> [FOREIGN] >> Couple of housekeeping items to discuss before we get into our agenda item. >> [FOREIGN] >> As you can see, I'm trying to speak one or two sentences before allowing the translator to translate. >> [FOREIGN] >> I think that's the best way to facilitate the communication here today. >> [FOREIGN] >> So I'd appreciate everyone's cooperation in that manner. >> [FOREIGN] >> And I ask for your forgiveness ahead of time, if you're going too long, and I decide to gently remind you to stop and let the translator translate. >> [FOREIGN] >> All right, I will call the agenda item. >> [FOREIGN] >> Do you have a copy of the agenda? Okay, yeah, just so that you'll read it instead of having to translate, I mean, it's item C. So I'm going to call agenda item C on our work session report. >> [FOREIGN] >> And I'm going to say this in its entirety so he can read the translation after I'm finished. >> [FOREIGN] >> Receive a report, hold a discussion, and give staff direction regarding the imminent cessation of water services from the water provider that serves the Green Tree Estate subdivision, and discuss options with the City Council to provide immediate and long-term infrastructure services to the residents located within this subdivision. >> [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> Before staff presentation. >> [FOREIGN] >> Just to let you know that the public input, the public comment will come after staff presentation. >> [FOREIGN] >> And according to our council rules of procedure. >> [FOREIGN] >> That presentations involving an interpreter, we double the amount of time per speaker. >> [FOREIGN] >> Refresh my memory how much time is each speaker without the doubling, is it three or four minutes? >> [FOREIGN] >> Three minutes, three minutes. >> [FOREIGN] >> Yes, a total of six minutes. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, we'll move forward with staff presentation. >> [FOREIGN] >> Good afternoon, Mayor, City Council members. My name is Ken Banks. I'm General Manager of Utilities for the City of Denton. >> [FOREIGN] >> We will, sorry. >> I'm sorry, introduce yourself again. >> Ken Banks, General Manager of Utilities. >> [FOREIGN] >> So we're here to speak about Green Tree Estates and the water service cessation. >> [FOREIGN] >> Green Tree Estates is located near Swisher and Edwards Road. >> [FOREIGN] >> So Swisher is here, Edwards is here. >> [FOREIGN] >> So the history, Green Tree Estates is an annexation area, referred to as DH9. >> [FOREIGN] >> An annexation service plan was created for this area in 2009. >> [FOREIGN] >> And it was administered by an annexation committee appointed by the county. >> [FOREIGN] >> The service agreement specifically addressed extending water service to Green Tree Estates to have it conform with Denton's requirements. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the area was ultimately annexed into the city in 2013. >> [FOREIGN] >> The service plan agreement had a specific process for connection that did not obligate the owner to connect to the city. >> [FOREIGN] >> If the process was followed, the city would provide water to the existing tank on the site. >> [FOREIGN] >> There would be one customer who is the owner, and the owner would provide water to residents using the existing system. >> [FOREIGN] >> For the service plan agreement connection process, there were several steps that had to be followed. >> [FOREIGN] >> The first was to obtain an active public water supply designation from the TCEQ. >> [FOREIGN] >> The second was to comply with all regulations for public water system. >> [FOREIGN] >> The owner would pay for a tap fee, a meter fee, and an impact fee. >> [FOREIGN] >> And then would pay to extend a private service line to the meter. >> [FOREIGN] >> And pay costs to extend a distribution line to the property. >> [FOREIGN] >> Once this had been completed, the city would set a meter and provide water when the obligations were fulfilled. >> [FOREIGN] >> The owner performed none of these actions. >> [FOREIGN] >> Current conditions are approximately 52 lots and 49 residents. >> [FOREIGN] >> 27 of the 52 are owned by Mr. Don Roddy. >> [FOREIGN] >> 17 of the 52 lots appear to be occupied. >> [FOREIGN] >> Of the 17 lots, 7 are estimated to be owner occupied. >> [FOREIGN] >> The site conditions are roads that are unpaved. >> [FOREIGN] >> Substandard structures and property maintenance concerns. >> [FOREIGN] >> There is illegal dumping and some junk vehicles and tires. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the roads are privately owned. >> [FOREIGN] >> Here is a map of the area showing those places that are presumed to be occupied, those that are owned by Mr. Roddy or his family, and those that are owned by others. >> [FOREIGN] >> Currently, the owner did not connect to city water or to city sewer for the service plan. >> [FOREIGN] >> The private water system conditions are as follows. There's age, quality, and integrity concerns. >> [FOREIGN] >> The water is discolored and residents report that it is not drinkable. >> [FOREIGN] >> There is no wastewater system, only septic tanks. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the infrastructure does not meet current city code. >> [FOREIGN] >> The owner notified the residents on November the 15th cut off on or about mid October. >> [FOREIGN] >> In late July, the owner initially indicated his intent to cease water service. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the city responded by sending the owner a letter dated August 9th. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city stated that our position was that discontinuation of service is governed by state law. >> [FOREIGN] >> We asked the owner to file a petition for ceasing service with the Public Utility Commission. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the city asked the owner to notify the customers in writing of his intentions. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city contacted the TCEQ and the TCEQ performed a site visit on August the 6th. >> [FOREIGN] >> The TCEQ documented 26 customers and 11 connections. >> [FOREIGN] >> This would make the area a public water supply by their definition. >> [FOREIGN] >> TCEQ advised the owner that illegal connections could be separated. >> [FOREIGN] >> The TCEQ made a second site visit and estimated nine connections and 22 people. >> [FOREIGN] >> The numbers changed because the owner allegedly disconnected illegal connections. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the city was not informed of the second site visit. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city contacted the Public Utility Commission of Texas to make them aware of the situation. >> [FOREIGN] >> We had several conversations with the commission since initial contact. >> [FOREIGN] >> The commission discussed a longer notice with the owner, but the owner declined to do so. >> [FOREIGN] >> And to date, the Public Utility Commission has communicated that they cannot require compliance with state rules regarding ceasing water service. >> [FOREIGN] >> The current condition is that this is a private civil matter. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city does not regulate non-city water systems. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city cannot require the owner to continue operation of the system. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city cannot require the owner to connect to the city water system. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city has taken some actions. Advocating on behalf of residents to state agencies and the legislative delegation. >> [FOREIGN] >> We provided information to residents on housing and legal resources. >> [FOREIGN] >> We worked with community volunteers. >> [FOREIGN] >> And we are planning emergency provision of water. >> [FOREIGN] >> We've held two community meetings, one on October the 29th and one on November the 11th. >> [FOREIGN] >> During the second meeting, emergency services were discussed. >> [FOREIGN] >> The feedback that we received from the community was concerns over quality of water in the private system. >> [FOREIGN] >> A desire for a long term solution that enabled them to remain in their homes. >> [FOREIGN] >> And an expression of interest in having large tanks at each house rather than the city's temporary water options. >> [FOREIGN] >> The temporary water provisions that were presented were to provide potable water, a portable shower and restroom, and basic access to water at the site. >> [FOREIGN] >> This would be provided for up to 90 days. >> [FOREIGN] >> And this would require an emergency declaration by the city. >> [FOREIGN] >> The residents proposed a large tank system at each home. >> [FOREIGN] >> The components of that system are summarized in this table. >> [FOREIGN] >> The estimated setup cost for providing a system like this is $11,500 per resident. >> [FOREIGN] >> This would be for non-drinking water only. >> [FOREIGN] >> And as designed may not meet building or plumbing code. >> [FOREIGN] >> Some challenges that we would face with a system like this, include water quality within the individual tanks. >> [FOREIGN] >> The delivery of water, including frequency and access due to the road conditions. >> [FOREIGN] >> There are legal and liability concerns. >> [FOREIGN] >> Compliance with code. >> [FOREIGN] >> And metering and billing accuracy. >> [FOREIGN] >> We also spoke about permanent infrastructure cost. >> [FOREIGN] >> These costs are estimated in this table. >> [FOREIGN] >> And include all types of infrastructure for the area. >> [FOREIGN] >> The water distribution system as proposed is shown here. >> [FOREIGN] >> And includes eight inch lines. >> [FOREIGN] >> For the entire subdivision. >> [FOREIGN] >> Hydrants. >> [FOREIGN] >> And valves. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'll turn the legal consideration over to Larry Collister. >> [FOREIGN] >> Larry Collister, the city attorney's office. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'm going to speak just briefly on the legal considerations for you all to discuss regarding the expenditure of funds. >> [FOREIGN] >> Should the council decide to declare an emergency for the situation? >> [FOREIGN] >> The council would be limited to spending money only for the emergency that they've declared. >> [FOREIGN] >> And our understanding so far is that is the provision of potable water to the residents of Green Tree estates. >> [FOREIGN] >> If the city council decides to go beyond the emergency declaration. >> [FOREIGN] >> They would have to have a public purpose that would allow them to spend money. >> [FOREIGN] >> To spend city funds for providing infrastructure. >> [FOREIGN] >> For the residents of Green Tree estates. >> [FOREIGN] >> And they would have to consider a consideration that council would need to weigh. >> [FOREIGN] >> Would be other areas of the city. >> [FOREIGN] >> That are similar in nature to Green Tree estates. >> [FOREIGN] >> And that the city would have to treat all these areas equally in a non-discriminatory manner. >> [FOREIGN] >> So next steps are to receive council direction. And have an update and discussion in December. >> [FOREIGN] >> We're specifically seeking direction on temporary water provision, permanent water provision, and any other feedback and direction council would like to provide. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'll be glad to take any questions. >> [FOREIGN] >> Yeah, I'd like to hear the public comment before the questions. >> [FOREIGN] >> So just for clarification. >> [FOREIGN] >> That when the public speaks. >> [FOREIGN] >> This is their opportunity to speak. >> [FOREIGN] >> And once everyone has spoken. >> [FOREIGN] >> Then the public portion of the comment will be closed. >> [FOREIGN] >> All right, first speaker. >> [FOREIGN] >> If you could state your name and address, please. >> [FOREIGN] >> And that's fine if somebody has their own translator. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> And if the translator could give your name as well for the record. >> Yeah, my name is Mariela Nunez-Janes and I'm 3449 Lake Country Drive. >> Thank you. >> [FOREIGN] >> My name is Edna Guajardo. >> [FOREIGN] >> Her address? >> Yes, please. >> [FOREIGN] >> 4010. >> Hiltup Lane. >> Hiltup Lane. >> Denton, Texas. >> [FOREIGN] >> ZIP Code 7620. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'm gonna talk today about the proposal that you're giving us today. >> [FOREIGN] >> This is not the proposal that we were making. The proposal that we were making was to ask for 200 gallon tanks, so that we would get two per family. And what you're proposing is an exaggeration of what we actually told you yesterday. >> [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> What we are, what we're asking for is a solution that is permanent. And what we're asking for is a solution that is equitable to receive the same kind of benefits that all residents of Denton receive. We are taxpayers and we pay our taxes and we reside here. And so we should receive the benefits that everybody else in the city receives. >> [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> We want a solution that's 100% solution that goes beyond the 90 days that you are proposing. And that is a solution that is longer and that is permanent. >> [FOREIGN] >> We need some more information about the roads. We don't know who provided the information regarding that the roads are private. Who was given the addresses, the names of the roads, the numbers of the roads? How was it determined that the roads are private or who do they belong to? >> [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> We know that the city builds roads over roads. So that five million that you're proposing, it should be provided to build infrastructure that we need and to take the stress out of living in the conditions that we're currently facing. >> [FOREIGN] >> We are grateful for the solutions that you're presenting. But they are not the kinds of solutions that we need. We need a permanent solution that's beyond the 90 days that you are providing and that's what we need for our community. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'm bringing letters that were written by the children and I'm asking your permission to distribute them to you so that you can see them and you can see how this is impacting them. >> [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> The solutions that you are proposing, again, are exaggerated. We don't need the tanks that you are proposing. And we can live without roads. We can live without electricity. But water is a basic necessity that we have a right to. >> [FOREIGN] >> We have hope in you and we have all of our hope and trust placed on you. And we hope you can provide us a permanent solution. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> [APPLAUSE] >> Okay. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> I'm going to see who he's going to call next. >> Okay. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Okay, the next speaker is, is it Elba Hernandez? >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Your name and address and your time will begin. >> [FOREIGN] >> 6009 Willow Lane and [FOREIGN] >> 70208. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'm here like my neighbor and I have the same concerns. We are here because this is an emergency and we understand that this is an emergency and we're trying to understand why you are not providing us with some permanent solutions. [FOREIGN] >> Around my house there are houses that have all the public services, that have roads that are paved. But there are no people that are living in these homes. Yet, we have been inhabiting our homes and yet you cannot provide the same services that my neighbors that are all not living in their homes yet are being given already. [FOREIGN] >> We want something permanent. We don't want something temporary. And we wonder what is going to happen after the 90 days. [FOREIGN] >> We want proof of the streets that are assumed to be private. And we want to know as to how you arrive to that conclusion. And we assume that as property owners that we should have a right to those streets as well. [FOREIGN] >> And if the problem are private roads. [FOREIGN] >> And so you're saying that the roads are private. Yet, in your own presentation, it says that the ownership of the roads has not been determined. [FOREIGN] >> And you're claiming in the presentation that there's no discrimination and that there is no unequal treatment. Then what would you call the fact that we have houses that are being built around my home where there are no residents yet. And they're giving the services that are being denied to us. The public services that are being denied to us. [FOREIGN] >> This plan looks good. It looks nice. [FOREIGN] >> But it costs a lot of money and we don't want you to waste your money. We don't want you to invest in something wasteful. [FOREIGN] >> And we want to get water that's drinkable. [FOREIGN] >> And we want you to also be worried about the roads. The roads have water on them and the water accumulates and that is not healthy. There are pools of water there where mosquitoes are being bred and our children are there. [FOREIGN] >> [FOREIGN] >> The solution of 90 days is not a solution. What are we going to do after the 90 days in order to survive? Your solution was clear to us. On the first meeting you provided us with a list of resources with the assumption and the intention that we would leave our homes. And so what we see is very clear here is that there is a racist intention. >> That's time. If you have a closing remark real quick. >> [FOREIGN] >> I have proof here of the water that I paid to Mr. Rudy, who's the owner. And it's something that he said that the residents are not paying, yet I have proof. And these go back for five years. >> Gracias. >> Thank you. >> [APPLAUSE] >> Andrea Rebus. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Hi, my name is Andrea Rebus and I resign. Are you going to translate? Somebody's speaking. >> I think there's somebody else. I can go sit down. >> Okay, okay. All right. Go ahead. >> My name is Andrea Rebus and I resign in 2017, Ley Vista Lane. I'm not a resident at this property, but I am concerned. >> Is somebody going to translate for you? >> No. >> No? So they're not requesting that? >> I'm available if you'd like for me. >> No, I can speak English. >> Okay, well, I'm not talking about so much for you, but I'm also talking about for the people who are- >> I just want to make sure they have a chance to- >> Or I can translate it to Spanish. I can say- >> Okay, if you could, yeah, that's fine. If you could English and Spanish, that'd be great. Okay. I just want to make sure that the people who are here- >> Yeah. [FOREIGN] >> Okay? I'm not a resident, but my daughter is best friends to Anna. And I just first heard about this on Saturday, when she came over to have a sleepover with my daughter. She was devastated. She's so smart. She told me everything. She knows everything that we're talking about right here. She told me everything. I wasn't talking to a 14-year-old. I was talking to a 20-year-old. I felt bad, and I offered her for help, you know? >> Are you going to, yeah, yeah. >> I'm going to do it in English first. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay, all right. >> I don't think it's fair. I think they should have the same rights as we all, clean water. And it does affect me, because my daughter goes to her house, too, and the roads to get there are really bad. What she was telling me, she goes, the owner doesn't let, he lets who electric company comes there, who trash man can come there. He tells them who can come over. And I'm surprised that he lets visitors come over to visit them. And I don't think that's right. I'm done. So I'm going to say it in Spanish. [ Speaking in Spanish ] >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. The next speaker is Alfredo Sanchez. >> Do you want to translate for me? Yeah, go ahead, because I can't. My Spanish isn't that good. >> My pleasure, sir. >> Okay. My name is Alfredo Sanchez. >> My name is Alfredo Sanchez. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> Okay. My name is Alfredo Sanchez. >> My name is Alfredo Sanchez. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I live at 711. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> I'm the vice chair of the League of United Latin American Citizens. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, so that was my point was we're bringing in your annexing areas without, it's not the same thing as a new development. >> [FOREIGN] >> In the new area developments, you force, before they can do anything, we force the developer to provide all the infrastructure. When you- >> [FOREIGN] >> But when you annex, you bring in substandard infrastructure without forcing the developer to do anything. [FOREIGN] >> So what happens is we have individuals, individual families that have invested in those properties. Then all of a sudden, yet are faced with the same situation is, okay, the guy decides not to fix the infrastructure. [FOREIGN] >> I hold not only the developer or Mr. Robbie responsible, but I also hold the city responsible. Because they are the ones that brought him in without making sure that that infrastructure was in place. [FOREIGN] >> And I do applaud the city because we're trying to provide a temporary solution and also looking long term as a long term solution. [FOREIGN] >> So at this point, I would ask the city to listen to these people and try to understand their solution and work with them as far as trying to find a temporary solution. But also their biggest concern is the long term solution because that is their home. That's where they invested their money when they bought property. And so the city does owe them some responsibility. There is some responsibility from the city. [FOREIGN] >> So I ask the city council to consider these, I don't know how many of you went last night. >> No, go ahead. >> Those that attended this meeting last night saw these families. They have children and they're trying to find the best solution for their families not having to take them out in the middle of these cold mornings. They have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. That doesn't work. I know I shouldn't want to be going out there in the middle of the night. >> [FOREIGN] >> Thank you, Alfredo. >> [APPLAUSE] >> Next speaker is Dewey Marshall. You'll state your name and address. Your time will begin. >> Is it six minutes long with the translation? >> Yes. >> My name is Dewey Marshall. I live at 1700 Willowwood Street. >> [FOREIGN] >> I'm here on behalf of my agency, the North Texas Fair Housing Center. >> [FOREIGN] >> We mediate and advocate in cases of housing discrimination. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, this city has failed to ensure compliance of Denton City Ordinance number 201396. >> [FOREIGN] >> 201396. >> [FOREIGN] >> Outlines the annexation agreement of area DH9. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city has not built infrastructure to supply water to the annexed area and has allowed the owner of Green Tree Estates to supply dangerous water. >> [FOREIGN] >> Without certification as public water source from the Texas Commission of Environmental Quality, the state. >> [FOREIGN] >> Yeah, in Kennedy versus the city of Zanesville, the court found that the city of Zanesville. >> [FOREIGN] >> The Muscombe County and the East Muscombe County Water Authority. >> [FOREIGN] >> Refused to provide plaintiffs public water service for over 50 years. >> [FOREIGN] >> Because they live in the one predominantly African American neighborhood in a virtually all white county. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, over 40 of the 49 people that live in Green Tree Estates. >> [FOREIGN] >> Are Latinx. >> [FOREIGN] >> Under federal fair housing laws. >> [FOREIGN] >> Residents are entitled to protection from discrimination. >> [FOREIGN] >> Based on race, color, and national origin. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, the North Texas Fair Housing Center requests that the city of Denton. >> [FOREIGN] >> Declare a state of emergency. >> [FOREIGN] >> To fund and provide residents with 300 gallon water tanks. >> [FOREIGN] >> From the day water is discontinued until the city can provide a neighborhood plan with water, trash, and recycling. >> [FOREIGN] >> If the city of Denton fails to provide adequate access to water. >> [FOREIGN] >> We will inform residents of Green Tree Estates of their options. >> [FOREIGN] >> Which include but are not limited to. >> [FOREIGN] >> To filing a complaint with the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. >> [FOREIGN] >> Filing a complaint with the US Department of Justice. >> [FOREIGN] >> Or referring to a private attorney. >> [FOREIGN] >> Okay, this next part, I need to explain what this means. The city has said repeatedly that they are in compliance with their own ordinance. >> [FOREIGN] >> We disagree, but even if the city is in compliance, they are not in compliance with federal civil rights. >> [FOREIGN] >> In this specific case in Ohio, our national organization had standing because the city refused to implement water systems to a neighborhood that was predominantly not white. >> [FOREIGN] >> The plaintiffs were awarded $10.8 million from the city. >> [FOREIGN] >> And the National Fair Housing Alliance was also awarded. >> [FOREIGN] >> There was an entire slide about legal considerations for the state of emergency. >> [FOREIGN] >> And never has civil rights law or precedent ever been observed in a situation regarding supplying utilities to a predominantly non-white neighborhood. >> [FOREIGN] >> The city had five years to appeal a decision to the state of Texas and did not do so. >> [FOREIGN] >> We urge the council to remember that this is a potential civil rights violation with precedent that we believe applies. >> [FOREIGN] >> Thank you. All right. >> [APPLAUSE] >> The last speaker is, is it Marcella? >> No. >> No. Is that you? >> Yes. >> Okay, all right. >> Well, it's not Marcella. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. >> It's Mariela Nunez-Janes. I live in 3449 Lake Country Drive here in Denton 76210. I'm going to read a statement that was written by Movimiento Cosecha Denton in conjunction with LULAC Denton. >> [FOREIGN] >> So I'll read the English first and I'll read the Spanish second. >> [FOREIGN] >> The estimated 49 residents of Green Tree estates, mostly working class and Hispanic, have called Green Tree home for years. They pay for water, they pay city taxes and property taxes. Their kids attend Pecan Creek Elementary. Their right to access water is threatened and there are no guarantees that the water they currently consume is safe. The water routinely comes out of faucets yellow or orange in color. Yet residents continue to pay for this service every month up until about a month when their checks were returned. Despite their diligence, residents received a notice that falls short of the 120 day requirements established by the Texas Public Utilities Commission for water suppliers. Underserved by the city of Denton that annex and taxes them, the residents of Green Tree estates face a life threatening crisis. Low to moderate income communities and communities of color are left behind, ignored, shoved aside, and told that there is nothing the city can do. The families of Green Tree estates have been waiting for six years since the annexation by the city of Denton required a service plan. Yet the city treats them as refugees, offering information about shelters, assuming that they will leave their homes. The water crisis in Flint, Michigan did not happen overnight, nor did it happen in a vacuum. Flint happened after a legacy of neglect and abandonment after their concerns about safe drinking water got brushed off. Without a temporary and permanent solution, Green Tree estates is likely to become our Flint. Access to safe drinkable water is a right for all city residents, and the city of Denton is responsible to all its residents, especially those that are annexed without their consent or their understanding. Inaction at this point is not an option, and temporary mandates are not enough. As proud Dentonites, and most importantly, as the constituents represented by Denton City Council, we are imploring this council to action. Without city intervention, Green Tree residents have very little options to avert a life threatening crisis and cannot afford the legal representation it would take to hold both the land owner and the city accountable. We are asking for permanent and equitable solutions determined by Green Tree residents, so that they can have the same access to water and trash collection and utilities that are granted to wealthy majority wide annexed communities, such as Robson Ranch. We are asking that the Denton City Council do the following, and for the sake of time, I'm going to read just one of the four action items. To declare a state of emergency to fund and provide residents with 300 gallon water tanks that are refilled daily from the day that water is discontinued, until the neighborhood is on city water, trash, and recycling collection utilities, sewage, drainage, and road maintenance on a permanent basis. With all infrastructure funded by the city, so that residents can pay utility bills just like everybody else and get what they're already paying for in their taxes. As taxpayers, Green Tree residents are entitled to the same basic city services as the annexed taxpayers of high income and primarily white neighborhoods in the city. So I'm going to read the Spanish version. Los 49 residentes de Green Tree estates en su mayoría de clase trabajadora e hispanos consideran Green Tree su hogar desde hace muchos años. Pagan por el agua, pagan impuestos municipales e impuestos a la propiedad. Sus niños son alumnos de la escuela primaria Precant Creek. Su derecho a acceder al agua está amenazado y no hay garantías de que el agua que consumen actualmente sea potable y segura para consumir. El agua que sale de manera rutinaria de los grifos es de color amarillo o naranja. Sin embargo, los residentes continúan pagando por este servicio todos los meses hasta aproximadamente un mes cuando les devolvieron los cheques. A pesar de su diligencia, los residentes recibieron un aviso que no cumple con los requisitos de los 120 días establecidos para proveedores de aguas por la Comisión de Servicios Públicos de Texas. Con falta de anexión por parte del gobierno de la ciudad que los anexó o de atención, perdón, por parte del gobierno que los anexó, los residentes de Green Tree estates enfrentan una crisis que pone en peligro sus vidas. Las comunidades de ingresos bajos o moderados y las comunidades minoritarias se quedan atrás. Son ignorados y se les ha dicho que no hay nada que la ciudad puede hacer. Las familias de Green Tree estates han estado esperando durante seis años desde que la anexión de la ciudad de Denton requirió un plan de servicio. Pero la ciudad los trata como refugiados, ya que supone que deben abandonar sus hogares. La crisis de agua en Flint, Michigan, no ocurrió de la noche a la mañana, ni sucedió en el vacío. Flint sucedió después de un legado de abandono, después de que las preocupaciones sobre el agua potable fueron ignoradas. Sin una solución temporal y permanente, es probable que Green Tree estates se convierta en nuestro Flint. El acceso a agua potable es un derecho de todos los residentes de la ciudad, y la ciudad de Denton es responsable por todos sus residentes, especialmente aquellos que fueron anexados sin su consentimiento o su comprensión. La inacción ahora no es una opción, y las medidas temporales no son suficientes. Como orgullosos Dentonites, y lo más importante, como constituyentes representados por el Concilio de Dentos, estamos implorando a este consejo que actúe. Sin la intervención de la ciudad, los residentes de Green Tree tienen muy pocas opciones para evitar una crisis que amenaza sus vidas. Y no tienen los recursos de obtener la representación legal que sería necesaria para responsabilizar tanto al propretario, también como a la ciudad. Nosotros vamos a hacer una segunda pausa de diez minutos y regresar entonces para la discusión del consejo. Welcome back to this meeting of the Denton City Council. November the 11th, 2019, it is 430 p.m. We're still on agenda item work session, believe it's 1C. We've had staff presentation, public comment, and thank you for that. And now we're going to have council discussion, which will include questions for staff. And then discussion of any other items that the council wants to discuss. Regarding this issue. Okay, Councilmember Meltzer. Please signal to me if you need me to stop. This issue has very quickly become to me my top priority triage issue in City of Denton right now. I have so many comments and questions that I'm not going to try to squeeze them all into this one comment. [Spanish] What happens after that 90 days is over? [Spanish] I'm imagining the 89th day. [Spanish] And how the residents who I have come to know and love. [Spanish] How they will feel on that 89th day and whether it will be any different than how they will feel on November 14th. [Spanish] November 15th, of course, is the day that the well owner says he will shut off the well. [Spanish] I'm very glad that the city is considering an emergency declaration because this is a public emergency. [Spanish] There's a lot that I don't like about what is on the table before us today in this presentation. [Spanish] To me, the 90 days sets a limit and a timeline on when this temporary water will be shut off. [Spanish] I know that the city could decide during that 90 days to extend it. [Spanish] But if our goal is truly to solve the emergency. [Spanish] And if the emergency is a community of taxpaying Denton residents who we annexed being without water. [Spanish] Then we should be offering a temporary solution that ends not after a specific number of days. [Spanish] But that ends when the problem is solved by giving the residents the permanent solution they are asking for. [Spanish] I was surprised to hear this morning in an email [Spanish] before this meeting occurred [Spanish] that an emergency meeting scheduled for Friday about another topic [Spanish] was amended today to include a vote on this 90 day timeline and a $250,000 budget. [Spanish] $250,000. [Spanish] When I asked about this, I was told that the reason why was so that the mayor could consult council on this emergency declaration. [Spanish] I'm very glad that the mayor wants to consult council on this issue. [Spanish] However, that is what we're doing right now by having this work session. [Spanish] Last night at the public meeting, we heard from members of the community that they don't like the 90 day timeframe. [Spanish] The goal that I just expressed is their goal and it is also the goal of Movimiento Cosecha and LULAC. [Spanish] So why are we voting on locking in 90 days when we can simply give direction on council today? [Spanish] The slide that talked about next steps did not include any mention of this Friday meeting, but there is a Friday meeting and it is at noon. [Spanish] Some other issues too, which I will not be able to include all of them right now, but I will before this session is through. I wish that this PowerPoint presentation was in Spanish because it's about a predominantly Spanish speaking community. [Spanish] I think that the gentleman interpreting right now is doing an awesome job. And I mean that. But I think we need to have a professional interpreter who has been trained as an interpreter doing this job and we need to pay them for this job. [Spanish] Where I work, Spanish speaking employees and employees of color are often asked to do additional work without being paid extra. [Spanish] I want people who are city employees to do the job that they're trained in that they love and not to be asked to do another job. [Spanish] I was concerned to see that the city knew in August that Mr. Roddy was planning on turning off the water. So why was the public and city council not informed until October and November? More importantly, why were the residents not informed? If I knew that somebody was getting their water turned off, the first thing I would do is tell them. Maybe there is some complicated legal reason why the city couldn't tell them. But it goes against my personal ethics regardless. [Spanish] Armadillo Ale Works reached out to me. [Spanish] And they said they would like to provide 275 gallon IBC totes filled with drinking water to the neighborhood. This was last week. [Spanish] And they asked me a critical question. [Spanish] Is this what the residents would like? [Spanish] So I used my common sense and I asked the residents. [Spanish] Armadillo Ale Works did not assume, and I did not assume, that this is what they wanted just because he wanted to give it to them. [Spanish] He said he could get these IBC totes in 48 hours notice. [Spanish] It's a very generous offer and the community is interested. [Spanish] But the community is still deciding how many of these they need and where they want them to go. [Spanish] He is waiting to act until the community tells him to act. [Spanish] That is exactly what we as a city government should be doing. [Spanish] Why have we not tested the water? [Spanish] I would assume we have the ability to test it. [Spanish] That is all for now. [Spanish] Okay. Other council members? Do you have any questions for staff? I don't even know. You talked for several minutes and what were the questions that you were asking? There were several questions you asked. Were those rhetorical questions or you were asking about the agenda? [Spanish] These were mostly statements, not questions about where I stand. However, [Spanish] there was a question at the end, one of many questions. [Spanish] The rest of the questions will come later. [Spanish] For now, I would love to hear from staff, have we tested the water? [Spanish] Do we have the capacity to test this water to see if it's safe for drinking and bathing? Do we have that capacity in house? [Spanish] I think we should have done this a long time ago. [Spanish] The laboratory has the ability to do microbial testing. There is a small fee for that, $25. Private systems can bring a sample in. We provide a bottle and instructions on how to collect it. [Spanish] The laboratory is only registered for doing microbial testing for the public. [Spanish] The other samples, analytes that may be able to be done would have to be done by an outside laboratory. [Spanish] In order to be able to be used for regulatory purposes. [Spanish] Is there a reason why the city has not sent this water out to a lab or done microbial testing in house? [Spanish] The water is on private property and the owner has not requested that service. [Spanish] Does the city feel a responsibility to know what is in that water? [Spanish] Before you answer that, I think we need to, I'm not sure where you're going with this line of questioning. [Spanish] You spent several minutes talking about how that we needed to respect the wishes of either citizens there. [Spanish] And to my understanding, nobody's asked for that up to this point. [Spanish] They have asked me and everything I'm saying is I am saying as a representative who has spoken to the people in this community and I'm telling you and you can verify with them. [Spanish] They want that water tested. [Spanish] I think I have $25 in my bag right now and would gladly pay. [Spanish] And when was this request made? [Spanish] This is my communicating with the residents and if the residents have not communicated this to all of council, it is because number one, a language barrier. [Spanish] Number two. I can appreciate that. My question is when were you requested by the residents to test the water? [Spanish] I have known these residents since when? Not for very long. [Spanish] I don't remember what day, but I have been compiling a list of requests, some of which I have communicated to staff. [Spanish] Others of which I have been waiting to announce publicly. [Spanish] So council member Armitter. [Spanish] What I understand or heard you just say is that you have spent several minutes asking staff why we haven't tested the water. [Spanish] Implying that the city had a duty to do that and that there was some failure in our ability to have already done that. [Spanish] But what I have heard you say here today is that the citizens asked you to test the water. They wanted the water tested. They made a request. [Spanish] And you have not communicated that, certainly to me as the mayor, until today. [Spanish] Like I said before, they have had a number of requests and I have been prioritizing which ones I communicate to, actually not council, to the city manager because of quorum concerns. I can't email all of council. [Spanish] When did you request staff? I have not submitted all of my requests at once because I have made a triage list and made what I consider the most time sensitive request first. [Spanish] I'm pretty sure that water testing was not one of those, but I don't remember. [Spanish] All I knew for sure was that my plan was to bring that up today. I cannot believe what I'm hearing. That a request for water testing by the residents to determine if that water is safe for drinking would not be the number one question on a request. And I have not heard from city staff or from anybody else that that request has been made. Believe it or not, their situation is so dire that testing the water is not even their first priority. Then why are you here today publicly asking staff if they have tested the water and the response was because nobody asked us to test the water. And so my question was, why is not staff on their own? Why does it take me today asking? And by the way, we're talking about, this is about two weeks. Let me make a suggestion. Instead of you holding the requests of the citizens, if you said you've known. This is ridiculous. No, what I don't appreciate. They didn't tell me to do it right away. If they had, I would have. Then don't come in here in a public setting and try to imply that the city should have done something on their own. When you've known for two weeks that that water might have been requested to be tested. I'm terminating this part of the discussion. If you have other questions, that's fine. But I'm gonna allow some other council members to talk. Council member breaks. So I have a few questions, some about the beginning of the presentation and some about what I heard the speaker say and so I'm just going to follow up because I'm keeping a list here. Okay, so in the very beginning of the presentation, there was a service plan for the annexation. Is that typical for the city? Yes. We also saw that it was a little over 5 million for the city to do all the connections for the infrastructure. Is that what it would cost Mr Roddy if he were to do what he needed to do for the city to do what they need to do? No, his would be substantially less because he would be using his own distribution system. [Spanish] Can you restate your question so I can get it appropriately? His cost would be less because? Because he would not have to build, he would use his own infrastructure. Do we know how much it would cost him? So if how much does he owe or would need to pay for us to do our part? Approximately, rough numbers, 160,000. Okay, so that's significantly less than over 5 million. So I also have some questions and these you may not have an answer to. But since there's a well and the well is going to be shut off on Friday, Mr Roddy, I guess, lives on the property somewhere. Does that mean that he doesn't use the well water? [Spanish] I spoke with him on the phone. He told me that he intends to continue to use the well water. So that brings up different questions for me on logistics and what that means. So that just means that he just goes in and disconnects everything except for his? I can only speculate but I would speculate that he has the ability to divert flow to his house and no other place. [Spanish] Okay, so on the slide where about the number of residents living there and then the number who were the connections. So when one visit was made, it was a certain number which made it a public supply. And then he called them back out and had disconnected, I think, some connections. So my question is, illegal connections. So there was just two illegal connections because there were 11 and then it went down to nine? [Spanish] I do not know what he had deemed to be an illegal connection or what he had discussed with TCQ as being illegal. TCQ advised him that he could disconnect those. I can only assume that these that were disconnected were because he stated they were illegal. [Spanish] My concern is that if the residents have been paying for the water, they weren't illegal. So I'm not sure how we verify that or not. But I would like to follow up and reach out to the residents who have the receipts of payment. [Spanish] Staff has reached out to both the Public Utility Commission and the TCQ with multiple emails telling them of the results of the public meeting, including the number of people that have been assumed to be using the water and that people had claimed payment had been made. Those agencies have to date not responded to us. [Spanish] So there were, one of the speakers mentioned homes in the area that were vacant but have services already connected. Were they speaking of the Pecan Creek development or is there some other development out there that's not a larger development that's getting service? I'm not aware. I'm sorry. I can't speculate what they were referring to. I assume that it was the Pecan estates, but I don't know. [Spanish] Yes, they would be required to put in all of the infrastructure, pay for it, construct it to city standards, and turn it over to the city upon inspection. [Spanish] They would have also been required to pay for the extension to the nearest point of connection to the city. So I was really surprised to find out the type of water system that was in place and that the city annexed. And so I'm learning a lot about what happened. Do we still annex when we talk about or have we annexed property such as this with water systems such as this in place that are considered a public utility that aren't on our utilities? [Spanish] I don't know the timing of those annexations, but we have annexed areas that have public utilities within them. [Spanish] I would like to receive a list of those properties for council just so we could know, so this doesn't catch us off guard again in case this are to happen in the future. One more. Yeah, I just had a clarification. Go ahead and finish hers. [Spanish] Clarification. Public utilities can be a general description, but it's also a legal description. [Spanish] So if you're asking for annexations that simply had either water systems, number one. [Spanish] And if that water system has been categorized as either a private water system. [Spanish] Or a public utility water system pursuant to state code. [Spanish] So annexation such as this when I asked earlier about the service plan agreement and those and then so if an individual has a certain amount of lots or renters or occupations, then it would be. I guess a public owned. I'm going by this type of situation that we're in right now. So on a different water system, I guess not necessarily a separate public utility that may be a little bit. [Spanish] And for this system or this situation, the definition would be a public water supply. PWS. And that would be in accordance with TCEQ rules, which are number of people served or number of connections. So then to clarify my list would be a list of areas that we have annexed into the city that are. [Spanish] Are the the homes that are out at Green Tree Estates hooked up to our electricity and trash and recycling. [Spanish] They are serviced by on core. I'm not sure about the the solid waste services I'm getting from the audience. They are not. But they being an annex into the city, they would be allowed to use those services. Correct. Correct. [Spanish] That brings me to one of the last things I want to ask about, and that is the roads. [Spanish] So I don't know if you could necessarily call them a road per se. It's more like off. [Spanish] We believe we believe they're all private. We do not know who owns them, what the division of ownership is with the roads and the lots. [Spanish] So I would I would like to request that we go into a closed session and discuss the Texas Water Code section seven point three five one. Do you want to do that now? Do you want counsel to have more? We can have more discussion. But at some point during this, I feel like we need to go into closed session to discuss the Texas Water Code. [Spanish] Council member. Yeah. Could we turn to the slide that regarded the PUC? [Spanish] So it said the PUC has communicated that they cannot require compliance with state rules. [Spanish] So is it our belief that they have not required that they have not complied with state rules? [Spanish] The PUC does not believe that they are a retail water supplier, and therefore they believe they are not subject to the requirements of the PUC for ceasing service. [Spanish] That's different than what this says. If if but if they were demonstrated to be or rather if if Mr. Roddy had demonstrated that that he was not in compliance with state rules, could the PUC then require compliance? If the PUC believes they have regulatory authority for for Mr. Roddy, then they can compel compliance. [Spanish] And do we believe that based on what we heard last night that the PUC is an error that in fact Mr. Roddy is not in compliance with state rules? [Spanish] Early in the process we sent Mr. Roddy a letter stating that we believe he was he was in need of compliance with state rules through the PUC. I understood that and I may not have been clear. If you could let him translate. [Spanish] My understanding based on this presentation, I'm pausing, is that we alleged to the PUC that he was not in compliance and then [Spanish] there was the question of illegal connections that then led Mr. Roddy to believe that he was in compliance. [Spanish] But my understanding of what you shared with us just now about last night was that there was additional information that we communicated to the PUC that indicated that in fact there are enough people to meet the threshold and that he's not in compliance. Did I misunderstand that? About last night. My question is about last night. [Spanish] Since you weren't there last night, I can address. I made it clear last night that you and your staff have been trying diligently to keep them eligible as a public water system, trying to find that proof in order to keep the water on. [Spanish] I'm sorry, can you repeat just the last part of the statement? To prove that there was enough customers to qualify as a public water system and force him to keep the water on. [Spanish] Just as a point of clarification, the public water system is designated by the TCEQ. That's based on number of connections, 15 or more, or number of people, 25 or more, whichever test it meets. [Spanish] The Public Utility Commission is based on whether payment was received for the services. That makes the designation of a retail utility. [Spanish] Okay, thank you for your patience. I want to keep pushing at this because I haven't gotten where I'm trying to go yet. Sure. I can stop while you translate that. [Spanish] So TCEQ cares about number of people. PUC cares about whether there's payment, correct? [Spanish] Generally, yes, that's correct. Okay. [Spanish] So do we believe that the TCEQ test has been met, whether they believe it or not at this moment, do we believe that the TCEQ test has been met at this time, and if so, who enforces that, TCEQ or PUC, even though their standards are different? [Spanish] Based on what I heard from talking with people at the first meeting and information we have received since then, there is evidence to suggest that there are more people, and there is evidence that has been purported of payment being received. [Spanish] And if those facts were accepted by the appropriate authorities, who would have the responsibility to enforce the law regarding the public utility in this case? With regards to this specific situation, what we're talking about is what's referred to as cessation of service. [Spanish] Given the shortness of time before this is truly an emergency, is there, and this is really, I guess, a question for legal, is there an appropriate level in the judicial branch to compel the executive branch to act? [Spanish] One thing I think that needs to be understood before we get into that question. [Spanish] Is that staff in our office had worked with PUC. [Spanish] To attempt to have Mr. Roddy be considered a retail water service. [Spanish] With that determination being made, he would have had to have given a 120-day notice. [Spanish] Before he terminated his private water system. [Spanish] Statutes don't compel someone to maintain a private water system if they want to turn it off. [Spanish] Which goes to the 120-day notice period. I understand time is short, time would help this situation because we could devise more satisfactory responses. And if the facts were understood, the law is on our side, or is on the side of giving more time. But if action is not forthcoming, my question remains, can we compel action? [Spanish] I think you said that you'd prefer to go into that in more detail in the closed session that we're waiting on for the water code, is that correct? That is correct. [Spanish] Okay, we're going to take about a 10-minute break. [Spanish] So I really want to encourage my colleagues. [Spanish] We've been talking about almost 45 minutes to an hour about this with staff and amongst ourselves. [Spanish] So at some point we need to start talking about action that we're going to take. [Spanish] Alright, so let's take a 10-minute break. [Spanish] Okay, welcome back to this meeting of the Denton City Council. [Spanish] On November the 11th, 2019. [Spanish] It is 543. [Spanish] Oh, is it the 12th? Oh, sorry, the 12th. [Spanish] I think I said the 11th last time. [Spanish] I'm sorry. [Spanish] We've lost the day. [Spanish] I apologize. [Spanish] Okay. [Spanish] Alright, I believe Council Member Meltzer had some additional comments. [Spanish] Yeah, just obviously based on the nature of my questioning, my preference would be if there's some way to avoid or at least significantly delay the emergency. But I can pause. [Spanish] But, you know, if we can't and we're here to decide what to do in the emergency scenario, what I thought I heard last night is different. What you heard from one of the residents is different than what was presented. [Spanish] I can't say I understand how it would be a complete solution, but what I felt I heard last night, others heard as well, you could say, was that they would prefer delivery of these large tanks of water and -- I'll pause. [Spanish] I think it was expressed that somehow they'd want to have it pumped into their existing systems, but I don't think they were asking us to provide the pumps. I could be wrong, but that was my impression. [Spanish] But I do think that what was envisioned was that those would be large tanks of potable water. [Spanish] So if we could just get a real brief explanation of potable and non-potable water. I know that sounds -- I'm sorry, go ahead. [Spanish] And at what point, if it's potable to begin with -- [Spanish] At what point does it become non-potable if it does? [Spanish] Potable simply means consumable. More broadly, it means it's met all the testing requirements necessary to ensure public health. [Spanish] Go ahead. Once it leaves the distribution system and it is outside of our control, we cannot consider it to be potable water. [Spanish] So let me give you a scenario as an example. [Spanish] So we fill up some Denton water trucks from a distribution line. [Spanish] So the water leaving the distribution line is potable. Correct. [Spanish] As we put the water in the water tank, which is under city control, city driver, does it still maintain its potable status? [Spanish] If it's placed into a truck specifically designed for potable water, it would retain that status until transferred into another container. [Spanish] Otherwise, it would not be considered potable. [Spanish] So you're the expert. [Spanish] So am I mispronouncing the word? I'm saying potable. Is it potable? Tomato, tomato. [Spanish] Okay. All right. Sorry. Little levity. So if the truck that we transferred into is specifically designed for potable water, are there containers that you can take the water from that truck and put into a tank that can be designed for potable water? Or once it leaves that tank, it automatically becomes non-potable? [Spanish] The answer to that is it depends on -- I knew you were going to say that. It's all about the control of the water. So if it is transferred into a container and someone that is not -- doesn't have the knowledge of how to maintain the potability of the water -- [Spanish] -- then it would not be able to be potable water. There are a lot of factors, how long it's been in the tank, has it been exposed, all of those things are factors that lead into a reason why it would not be considered potable. This is the reason why for drinking water, we were looking at a bottled water solution. [Spanish] Plastic cubes, I think sometimes they've got wood around them. Do you know what I'm referring to? Not like a metal tank, but I think those are -- IBC container. Pardon me? IBC container. Let him translate. [Spanish] So that would be essentially a bottled water solution. I'm not sure that they actually come that way. You can purchase water like that. We were looking at a solution that would be beyond a standard bottle of water simply because of the waste and difficulty in transporting. So that's what we were looking at. Two and a half to five gallon would be optimal. [Spanish] So the specific details to whatever solution we find? [Spanish] I'm going to leave to staff to continue to work with the residents to how we can achieve as close to the request as possible. [Spanish] Yeah, and I know I've heard the comment that this solution was overkill. However, last night we were specifically asked for a solution that would connect into the homes. So we can work it through with the residents if the council gives us that permission. [Spanish] Okay, before I recognize you, I want to make sure that some of the council members who haven't spoken yet are able to speak. Council member Ryan, then we'll go to council member Davis. [Spanish] Hey, can you go to slide number seven at the map of owners? [Spanish] So I'm seeing that there are four occupied lots owned by the Roddy family. [Spanish] That's my understanding. Is one of those Mr. Roddy? Yes. [Spanish] Do we have any easements for water lines or anything of that nature currently? No. [Spanish] On one of the other slides, it said that there were seven, estimated seven owner occupied. So that means that there were six outside of the Roddy family. [Spanish] If I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. [Spanish] Based on that, those six, we could get permission from the owner to place these items there. I guess this may end up needing to be a closed session item. What do we need to do if it's a tenant occupied? Can the tenant give us permission to put the tank there? [Spanish] Was that a question to me? I'd prefer to be going to closed session. Okay, all right. [Spanish] The other thing that I think we need some clarification on is we're showing 17 occupied. It was showing 11 that did have water service and now nine that have water service. [Spanish] Is this doubled up on some of these? [Spanish] The TCQ made the determination of how many connections there were. This was done by our site visit and our own observation combined with some information from the community. [Spanish] Do we know where the well is located or the apparatus around the well? They've got a storage tank out there right now, I believe. [Spanish] I believe it's generally in this area. [Spanish] And Mr. Roddy is not interested in just not continuing the well, but just if we were to get water, basically what the system was set up to be. Instead of having to put out 17 tanks or 16 tanks, putting one tank by his current system that he could pump out, has that been discussed? [Spanish] That's essentially what was proposed and agreed upon in the service agreement. It would be using his tank and allowing him to take the well offline. So city water to the tank and then from the tank to the distribution system. [Spanish] I don't want to speak for him, but based on his conversations, I believe he's not interested in doing that. [Spanish] How many acres is this? [Spanish] I think it's approximately 15. Because the DH9 annexation was 298 acres according to our backup? That's correct. And this was the only one, oh sorry. [Spanish] And this was the only one in that annexation that was on its own water system? That's why it had a separate? I believe there were other water systems there that had their own wells. [Spanish] And my last question, earlier you mentioned $160,000 that would cost Mr. Rodney. Did that include impact fees and a meter fee? [Spanish] Yes, a single meter impact fee that he would be the owner of. Okay, thank you. [Spanish] Councilmember Davis. This is going to sound like something for the closed session, but it's not. To the best of our knowledge, are these neighbors receiving competent legal advice from a licensed attorney? This is going to sound like something for the closed session, but it's not. Are these neighbors receiving appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney? Okay, go ahead. Well, I don't know who's going to... Does anybody know? Does anybody know the answer to that question? Is there anyone else? I hope I haven't done something wrong. I made an introduction between the president of LULAC and an attorney so they could talk. And my understanding is that he's agreed to represent some of the tenants. [Spanish] Councilmember Davis, you have the floor. I just want to say that I asked that question because I'm very concerned that some of the neighbors are getting incorrect information and incorrect legal advice from people who are not qualified to give legal advice. And so when it comes to questions of law, they should rely only on the advice of an attorney and not someone who's acting just on their own belief. [Spanish] Mayor Pro Tem, any before... No, I'm just gathering. But an interesting note, I'm almost done. I'm at $4.5 million when I look at Zillow. And not that that's the be-all end-all of kind of understanding the real estate. Let him translate. Sorry. [Spanish] But so that's my concern is that it's -- there's an assessment there that's not accurate for a reason. [Spanish] And then also when I look at Google Maps, that for sale sign is active, so that means it's been there for a while because it takes time to -- [Spanish] So that's kind of guiding my decision to make sure we can provide a solution that does not make them vulnerable, if you will. [Spanish] And I'll end with this. So in my kind of deliberations, one thing sticks with me is developers -- [Spanish] That to me matters because if we provide a certain level of permanent solution, it removes that pause. [Spanish] All right. Okay. We're going to -- this is the second -- we're going to keep these brief because we need -- I think we need to go into closed session because I think that's going to be part of what helps us craft, you know, some short-term and long-term solutions. So, Council Member Armitage, if you have questions. [Spanish] Okay. Thank you. So, one, I just wanted to say publicly, since there was a question about it, I was able to find an e-mail where I did ask about water testing, just mentioning that for the record. [Spanish] So question under a state of emergency, if a state of -- public state of emergency is declared. It's my understanding that the city has a lot of leeway in what they can do, we can do. [Spanish] It's my understanding that in a state of emergency, a city could put in temporary -- do any temporary solution on private property or install permanent infrastructure. Is that correct? [Spanish] Okay. That was a question which is not going to be answered in open session right now. We need to go into closed session. So I -- [Spanish] So I have a case for making it an open session item. My question is not about, you know, how should the city use this, but simply what does the law say? We've already discussed openly what PUC law says, what TCEQ law says. So I would like to know, you know, from our attorney or someone else just to say whether or not that's an accurate description and if there's anything that they have to add to that. [Spanish] If -- I'm going to ask the attorney -- [Spanish] -- to give just the general provisions of what a declared state of emergency entails. [Spanish] The city is going to be bound by what the council declares as the emergency and what they can do. And what I have understood the emergency to be is being able to provide the residents of Green Tree Estates potable water to be able to drink. [Spanish] And that would not entail a full-blown just effort of the city providing a permanent infrastructure as a result of Mr. Roddy's indiscretions with the private water system that's provided them water at this time. [Spanish] But it's possible to do that, correct? [Spanish] I would want to look further into what the council is wanting to declare as an emergency before we give an opinion on what funds the city can expend. [Spanish] Okay, so I'll state my own opinion. This is not a legal opinion, but my belief that since the emergency is families and entire neighborhood being without water, then if whatever solution we provide under a declared state of emergency only lasts 90 days, then the emergency will pop up again on day 90. I'm just stating that as my opinion. [Spanish] I don't -- yes, thank you. [Spanish] So other question -- actually, you know, if we're going to go into closed session, when we come back from closed session, will we have an opportunity to discuss these issues further? [Spanish] I think it's clear -- [Spanish] -- that we will be here -- [Spanish] -- until we come up with some temporary solution, albeit maybe not a full permanent solution, but we have to come up with a solution -- [Spanish] -- to provide water -- [Spanish] -- to provide water to the residents -- [Spanish] -- with their help and collaboration. [Spanish] So, yes, we will have further discussion when we come back from closed session. [Spanish] Then I will wait on my additional questions until after the closed session. [Spanish] Councilmember Briggs. Just a quick question about the map with the owner occupied. I'm curious, when we annexed, was it all owned by Roddy or was it already sold off into individual lots? [Spanish] I don't know the answer to that. I can tell you that I am aware of some property owners that have been there for a timeframe that is well in the past before the annexation happened, so at least some of them were. [Spanish] We received in our backup a plat of this property that was, I think, dated either the late '80s or in the '90s. [Spanish] So the property was platted with the county in this configuration. Okay, I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, and this may be something we talk about when we go into, but for any landowner who purchased after, did they purchase water rights or was it just land only? [Spanish] Okay, go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead. I have seen a property deed of sale filed with the county that specifically, it was from, I believe, 2014, that specifically stated that the water was provided by a third-party well and there was no guarantee of service. [Spanish] Also, Mr. Banks and I, Dr. Banks and I have discussed this, and also in that deed, it indicates that the city was not under an obligation to provide water. This was in the deed between the seller and the buyer of the property in bold print. It just said it out there, so there have been individuals. [Spanish] Did you have a further comment? Yes, and what we don't know was how the transaction happened, what went down between the seller and the buyer. [Spanish] In terms of the knowledge of, particularly the buyer of the property. [Spanish] Before we go, we've heard that what the city understood in an effort to try to be very thoroughly responsive to what was said last night was perceived as overkill. I would suggest, or I would ask, how we might get better clarification of what was intended by those who spoke. If what we're hearing, however well-intentioned, if what we're hearing is this isn't what we meant, how do we sort that out and get to what was meant? [Spanish] Part of the discussion today is whether or not to go ahead and move forward with temporary water provision services, so I would suggest when we're in closed session, I'll ask a couple of our staff members to meet with the residents. I'm not sure there's a complete understanding of whether the tanks would be connected into the homes and if they are, the need for the pumps, that sort of thing, so I'll ask them to meet with the residents while we're meeting in closed session. That makes perfect sense to me. [Spanish] Okay, we're going to go into closed session at 620. [Spanish] Deliberations regarding or deliberations consulting with attorneys. [Spanish] Under Texas government code. [Spanish] Section 551. [Spanish] .071. [Spanish] Yeah, so at this time we ask the public if they could excuse themselves outside and we'll call them back when executive session is over. [Spanish] Okay, welcome back to this meeting of the Dent City Council. [Spanish] November the 12th, 2019. [Spanish] 728. [Spanish] All right. Council Member Armitter, are you going to join us? Thank you. All right, we're back in open session for agenda item, I think it's 1C. [Spanish] Okay, what I'd like to do now. [Spanish] First of all, thank our translator, Norman, profusely. [Spanish] Yes, we really appreciate you being here. [Spanish] We're going to have an update from staff about the conversation. [Spanish] That was had during our closed session with members of the community. [Spanish] Mayor, members of the council, Mario Canizares, deputy city manager. [Spanish] We visited with the residents here just a few moments ago, had a really good conversation with them. [Spanish] Based on their feedback, it sounds like they would be interested in a two-step process. [Spanish] The first step is knowing that Saturday, this coming Saturday, the 16th of November is near upon us. [Spanish] And so we asked the residents what do we do in the meantime to help address that situation. [Spanish] Knowing that one of the options that was presented from yesterday's meeting with the community was to install a tank system that you've seen here. [Spanish] And that would take some time to not only purchase the materials and the equipment, but also find the electricians and the plumbers to be able to do the appropriate installation. [Spanish] So what they suggested is for the city to, again, if you all declare an emergency, for the city to purchase 250 gallon water container totes. [Spanish] Which would give the residents time during that two to four week period of doing the purchase and installation of this equipment. [Spanish] The city would still be responsible, ask the city to be responsible filling those containers up. [Spanish] And then so once that's completed, then as this system is installed, they would be acceptable of receiving the system. [Spanish] As long as there's commitment from the city that it would be maintained in perpetuity until the city comes up with a permanent solution for the permanent infrastructure. [Spanish] The other thing that we mentioned, again, just because these 250 gallon container totes, if they need to be purchased, there may be some lead time required to get those. [Spanish] They would be okay or they would be satisfied with city purchasing 55 gallon drums, those plastic 55 gallon empty drums, and the residents would fill those drums with the water that they've stored or collected through those donation drives. [Spanish] So just in summary, worst case, city to purchase the 55 gallon drums, they would fill those drums up with water to give them three to four days worth of water until the 250 gallon container totes are brought forward. [Spanish] And then the next phase, I guess the last phase would be for the installation of this set system here over the next four to six weeks, depending on when council gives direction to proceed in that manner. [Spanish] With the commitment of the city that the city would maintain it and fill it until a decision is made regarding the permanent infrastructure improvements that are requested. And I'm just looking at my colleague Tony pointed because he was there. Is there anything that I missed. I want to thank you so much. Those of you who the staff who were talking to the residents. As soon as they came back into the room. I asked how did it go. And I stand they said it was wonderful. And I said, did they listen. And they said yes. And I am so happy. So thank you to the staff who were there with them. Thank you. So a question I have, and you might not be able to answer it. It might be a question for city attorney. [Spanish] In the the vote that's before us on Friday, that has the 90 days and the $250,000 under state of emergency. If we vote yes to that, does that in any way contradict this solution that is being discussed right now. [Spanish] So does my understanding that the mayor. [Spanish] Execute tomorrow, a declaration of emergency. [Spanish] Regarding the situation with potable water at green tree estates. [Spanish] Which will be in effect for seven days. [Spanish] And then the council will extend that for a period of 90 days. [Spanish] And the council will then have the option. [Spanish] If the situation hasn't resolved itself to extend it an additional time period. Thank you. So I can vote yes on Friday. I want this solution that was decided on. Well, and again, I just want to be clear. This is the it's in the feedback and the discussions with the residents. So they also know to that, obviously, it'd be a decision of council to make that happen. I mean, staff just, we just listened and they gave us those options and work through the matter. Thank you. And I want to add one thing. The other thing I asked the residents was since it was if council agrees on what you discussed with staff. Would you still want the well turned back on? Or is that no longer important to you after this discussion with staff? And they said, no, based on their conversation with staff just now, they no longer would need the well turned back on because they are that happy with what they talked about with staff. [Spanish] Real quick, I'm going to summarize what he said. And I'm glad that they're happy that they're not asking the well to be turned on. Because I, in good conscience, could not have advocated for that well to be turned on or kept on. And I knew we would find a solution. So just to reiterate what the city attorney said, as mayor, I will execute tomorrow, Wednesday, November the 13th, a declaration declaring a local emergency for the area known as Green Tree Estates to provide the solutions, temporary solutions, as we've outlined here today, which was a collaboration between staff and the residents to come up with something that's workable until we can find a more permanent solution. And this will allow the city to expend funds and use resources to alleviate the crisis that is impending upon the well being turned off on November 15th. So, okay, we're going to go to, I think we got Councilmember Davis, then anybody over here on this side, Councilmember Briggs. Oh, sorry, go ahead. [Spanish] Councilmember Davis. Are you asking for questions or are you ready for a direction? Your pleasure. I'm on board with providing potable water during the time that we're exploring our other options. [Spanish] I think that the large totes are a good way to provide water. [Spanish] However, I'm not in favor of building anything or creating a new parallel system using city funds at Green Tree Estates at this time. [Spanish] We have a very clear process for establishing new water systems and new water connections in the city. [Spanish] And I'm very worried about the legal consequences if we start spending taxpayer money in one part of the city that we have not spent in other parts of the city. What I mean by that is that we have many communities just like this one in other parts of town. [Spanish] And what we decide about this neighborhood has consequences for what we do in the future. [Spanish] So I'm very much in favor of providing the water that people need to live at Green Tree Estates. [Spanish] But I'm very concerned that creating a temporary system that could be very costly doesn't actually move us closer to a permanent solution, an actual water system on the property. [Spanish] Can I ask a question of clarification, Councilmember Davis? So are you saying that this temporary proposal of the non-potable storage tank, booster pump, et cetera, that's the thing that you said you're calling a parallel system? [Spanish] Yes, the request is that we create this parallel system and maintain it until a new system comes and goes into place. [Spanish] And my contention is the city cannot legally put a permanent system in place outside of the normal process that we have, and that could take quite some time to get done. [Spanish] And we could also create obligations for ourselves when people sell their property to a new person or when a tenant moves out of a property and we have continuing obligations into the future with no foreseeable end. [Spanish] My preference is that we provide the short-term temporary solution with the water totes. [Spanish] And then we use that time to establish very clearly what the city is able to do and what we are not able to do and to give our residents realistic expectations of what the city can provide to them. [Spanish] Okay, all right. I guess I have a question. [Spanish] Does this, I'm going to call it situation, is this going to require some type of an agreement between the city and the residents, an official formal written agreement? We discussed that and they understand that there would have to be some documentation laying out city expectations, resident expectations or requirements to go through this process. [Spanish] So I think Councilmember Davis brings up a good point as far as [Spanish] Regarding who is the benefactor of this agreement? [Spanish] And I think we need to explore some of the questions that he had regarding if people were to move or if people sold their property. [Spanish] Because we're taking these measures on behalf of the current residents as they requested. [Spanish] I think it might help us to narrow the scope of the decision we make today to give staff more time. So I think there's, I suspect there would be no disagreement about step one, the 55 gallon containers. I suspect there would be little disagreement about step two in the interest of serving a humanitarian need in an emergency to go to the 275 gallon totes. And I think that certainly covers the expectable risks between now and Friday when we will meet again. I think that will give staff time to sort through the options, address some of the concerns that have been raised. I think it's understandable that it takes more time to develop the most complex part of this contract and this resolution. And I think everyone agrees that the 55 gallon containers are something very reasonable and easy to be done. [Spanish] I say this with the risk that I may have unrealistically high expectations of staff, but they usually have something interesting to say if we give them time to actually work on it. [Spanish] Another question I have. Was there any conversation about at some point residents paying at least for the water usage? [Spanish] We talked about that and the price per thousand gallons to get an estimate of what that cost would be, so they just needed to know those. [Spanish] And they indicated they have no problem paying for the water, it's just getting the water. [Spanish] Real quick, because Mayor Pro Tem is up. Yeah, just to add real quickly. I just want to acknowledge the Mayor's clarity on the point of not turning the well back on. I think that was well advised, and I stand corrected by that. [Spanish] Mayor Pro Tem. A couple of things, just forward looking. I'm okay with the direction we're going. Be sure to let him on the translation. Yes. A couple of things, forward looking, just not. So I'm okay with the direction we're going. [Spanish] So I would ask staff to work with the residents to maybe do what we can to connect them to DISD. [Spanish] What I'd like to see is an agreement that regardless of where they live because of the circumstances, to take away that fear of them not being able to finish at Pecan Creek. [Spanish] Because if they find an opportunity, I don't want that to be an impediment. [Spanish] And then I would also like to, on the conversation about the water rates. [Spanish] If we could provide the residents an average of what a resident pays so that then they can compare and contrast that to what they've been paying. So if those, if it ever manifests, they haven't afforded. [Spanish] Yes, sir. Clarification, just the water component? Well, fair point. Whatever is, so it's a co-serve is not, but I guess the waste and water and all the above that would apply. Okay. [Spanish] And then really I want to conclude with just applauding staff and their patience and there's been a lot of accusations leveled towards staff. [Spanish] And I think this city has the most diverse department leadership that I've seen in a lot of cities and has been fair and equitable. And I disagree with those assertions. [Spanish] Thank you. [Spanish] Yes, Council Member Briggs. So I'm good with the option A and option B to get started. So I guess I'm not sure of the amounts. There's a worst case. [Spanish] All right. So the worst case would be 55-gallon drums that they would fill with their own water that they've stored so far. [Spanish] The next phase would be to obtain 250-gallon water container totes. [Spanish] To provide enough time if the city chooses to do this system. [Spanish] So I'm perfectly fine with those two and with this system, I know we're going to talk about it later on and that's going to be a different conversation. But where I am right now, I understand what Council Member Davis was saying. But I also for those, I guess six lots minus Roddy who are owner occupied, I wouldn't have an issue going ahead and working on this and then having some sort of agreement if those are sold. Because they are taxpayers in our city. And I mean until we could get other agreements with, you know. [Spanish] And I don't think it would be uneven and we would be giving them something that other residents have if they're willing to pay for it and pay for the water. They need access to water. And I also while I'm still talking, I want to say thank you to the community because the community has raised quite a bit of water and donated quite a bit of water at Eastside. And Little Guys Movers is going to bring it out to the community. And so having those larger drums available will be very helpful so that they're not just using. [Spanish] And I certainly hope that at midnight on Saturday that they have all the water they need. [Spanish] Okay, any other Council Member Ryan. I'm in agreement with Council Member Davis as well and until staff has an opportunity, not just legal and engineering, but even our building department. [Spanish] We may be, the system could end up with that investigation ahead of time, could end up causing more problems than what it's worth between electrical and plumbing. [Spanish] Okay, Council Member Armitage. So talking about around how long, and this is a hypothetical, if this temporary and permanent solution that staff discussed with the residents. If that ended up being agreed on by Council, around how long would the estimate be, or do you feel comfortable estimating? You know, would it take, I heard that they had heard two years, but I wanted to hear kind of from you if you want to elaborate and explain around how long do you think. Because I know it does take a lot of time. For the system. [Spanish] Yeah, in terms of time, I think the comments have been made tonight and we need to continue reinforcing it and not setting any false expectations. Since we don't know exactly what permanent means and what kind of solutions the Council is going to be considering down the road. [Spanish] It is not responsible at this point to set an artificial shot clock until we have a chance to talk to all seven Council Members again. [Spanish] Thank you, that's helpful. I just wanted an answer, which is why I asked. [Spanish] I wanted to ask an issue that was raised just a moment ago. Council Member, Mayor Pro Tem Hutzpeth was wondering if you would clarify. You mentioned about the city getting in touch with DISD to ensure that in case an opportunity came up for the residents that they would still have that their children would still be able to attend Pecan Creek Elementary. Did you mean that if they decide to move, if they move elsewhere, they can still stay in Pecan Creek Elementary? I was wondering if you could just elaborate what you meant by that. Across the board, if the property sells and they're a renter and their child is at Pecan Elementary School and I think it's a dynamic school with dynamic leadership and people move in the neighborhoods for that reason, for that property to sell and due to no fault of their own that kid would have to switch schools, that's a problem. And I think Denton ISD has been very helpful to us and we have a great relationship and so I'd like to reach out to them to get in front of that. Sorry. Yeah, no, you need to translate her question. Okay. Yeah, so okay. Just to conclude, I mean, because there's enough to worry about other than, so it's one thing that hopefully we can take off the plate over here. Just to conclude, I mean, because there's enough to worry about other than, so it's one thing that hopefully we can take off the plate of worrying about where your kid is going to go to school. They have a relationship and keep that going. Okay, any other questions. So I want to make sure I'm clear as far as direction from counsel. That to move forward on the 55 gallon drums and the 250 gallon totes to provide a stopgap measure. And we will be meeting on Friday at noon, special called meeting to canvas and also consider to memorialize a longer period of time than just the mayor's declaration of an emergency which is seven days. And it's my understanding, my understanding that at that time is when we're also going to consider the official vote. For this, what I'm going to call temporary slash intermediate solution. As presented with this system with the tank pressure tank and all the accessory attachments etc. Yeah, so a couple questions about one about Friday. So it's an open meeting, so will there be an opportunity for members of the public to come and speak. If it's an item for individual consideration. Public is allowed to fill out a blue card and request to speak. Thank you. And can, is there a consensus on council to the idea put forward of, as I understand it, the community, being able to sign off on whatever decisions, you know, spending decisions are made it every time to be sure that communication between residents and staff is as clear as it was in that that room. That's not been part of this conversation. I mean, as I understood it, that one of the conditions that was raised, Mario can better explain since you were there, that they wanted to make sure something about every step of the way being informed and signing off on things and I want to make sure. What was discussed was requested is that there was an open line of communication between the city and the residents to check in periodically. We didn't go into specifics about that they would get every single decision would be would be checked off at the obviously there's open dialogue, open communication. So there's an expectation that both parties know where things are headed. Thank you. Okay. This work session. Thank you very much for coming. All right, that that concludes that agenda item, we are going to. There's two work session items gas well ordinance discussion and also the pedestrian walkway we're going to move that to next week we're going to take the council request for our last work session item and then we're going to go into our regularly scheduled meeting and close session will be at the end because we still have a close session so let's just take a real quick five minute break. Welcome everybody back to this meeting of the Dent City Council is Tuesday, November the 12 2019 it is 817 p.m. we're going to defer our work session reports items. D and D to next week's work session, or as staff determines if we have that kind of room on this agenda, and then we're going to go go ahead and complete our work session item three E, and then we'll move into our regularly scheduled or our special meeting, and then we'll do close session at the end. Oh, Mayor protein, is there is there any way and I don't know if the answer to this but is there a way to buy for KD, because early in the meeting there's, I guess there's some issue about what was said when it was said how was said, I'd love to get that resolved, so that we know when D comes back, we can, we can have that off the table, I don't know what the, what staff's pleasure is for that but I'd love to get that question put to bed so that we can move on. Thank you, Mr staff, I wasn't here. customer has spent this near potential excuse me. Are you asking why it's back on the agenda. No, sir, Council member arm at our mid raised some question about the, what the, what the, what the minutes read, and I think we can solidify that because we've got a vote on the consent agenda anyway. So we can solidify the minutes get that put away mayor's here to speak to what he said, and then close that out, and then re so when we reload the, we can hit the ground running. Okay. I'm still not quite sure exactly what's being asked of me. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, no, well we'll just, I mean, the question is why is it coming back based upon my comment. I don't know what the minutes I mean I've reviewed the minutes but I don't remember verbatim. All I remember is that during that meeting I said I don't want to rehash things. I do recall that. And so when we were talking about it in the agenda committee meeting, there seemed to be some lack of clarity in what I meant by that. So we were bringing it back to get that clarity because staff didn't know if I meant which one of these five components that I not want to rehash that I mean any of them that I mean none of them. Is that does that answer that question, you know, that's my, it's up to Councilman Armitage but that's my recollection because that that was right after my comment was, we need to talk about these things one time, and that's why I was not for. I was not in support of it because I didn't want to go back down that road. Your cut you spoke directly after me and I remember what you said to be true, which you just kind of reiterated. And so, I think staff is spot on what this is just about an issue of whether the minutes get pulled and voted on separately because there may be a discrepancy in it. I don't want to go have this work session right now to address the substantive portion of what I just shared so if if there's a disagreement with the minutes on that. There's procedures that we can do for that. So, I don't, I don't necessarily want to begin I haven't even called the agenda item so we're discussing agenda item that I hadn't even called. Yes, Councilmember. But it's one sentence, I can tell you what the minutes say. Excuse me. Regarding item three gas well safety and possible gas well ordinance inclusions. Oh, it says Prince's bricks. I thought it was Councilmember Armitage raised it. I understand. But the sense is council consensus was given to schedule a future work session with no previous decisions or areas discussed to be part of the upcoming presentation. That's what it says. Okay, well, that's pretty, that's pretty vague in general so. So yeah, you can deal with the minutes as you see fit. We're gonna we're gonna go ahead and move on to agenda item he unless some and so when we get to the minutes and they can send agenda somebody can pull that if they want to consent agenda item three E. Work session item three I'm sorry. Receive report hold discussion give staff direction on pending city council request for. Thank you, Mayor and Council, Stuart birds I assistant to the city manager. This is our standing city council pending request for information work session. Just a reminder for anybody who's watching how we got here. Tonight we have one request. I will introduce that request and then the elected official that made the request will have one minute to describe and justify their request. The remaining officials will then have up to one minute to respond and indicate support and staff will proceed with any requests where consensus of council is established. Tonight's request is citizen police review boards. This is an informal staff report that's going to take more than two hours. It was requested by Councilmember armator. In September, staff estimates that this request will take about 20 hours to develop staff is has to research rather, whether the charter requires that this board would need to be created through the meet and confer process, whether staff positions would be required to support the panel and to discuss the operations of the panel with Dallas Fort Worth, other cities that have them so. Thank you. I, I don't think I have support for even this informal staff report on this council. So this is how I'm going to to frame my, my presentation. I think that citizen police review boards are a good thing. And I think it would be beneficial at least to learn more about them before people decide, say no to them. And to see what is happening in other cities, even if those cities are different in size. I ask of any colleague who is opposed to just getting compiling this information, I'd like to know why it's okay for us to have a public utility board that advises us on DME matters. Why it's okay for us to have a parks board and other boards for other departments, but why is this one so controversial and different? Why is it not okay? Okay. Councilmember Briggs. I would be interested in reading a staff report. I know that we need a majority to even get a staff report on this one because of the hours. I have no idea what they are or what they do. And so just for my knowledge, if this was brought up again or if we need one or not, I can't really say. So more information would be okay with me. Okay. Councilmember Melzer. Yeah, I had asked Councilmember Armentor when I saw this on the agenda, if I expressed a preference that you would tell us not just that it's good or why it might be good, but why it might be particularly timely here and now. And I would still be interested in hearing, perhaps from a staff report, under what circumstances cities have them, kind of what the point is. Why do some have it, why don't they? As a starting point, I'd be interested in understanding that. All right. Yes, Councilmember Davis. So I don't feel the need for a staff report on this item. The cities that have these boards have them because there have been significant breakdowns in the communication of the police department with the community. Usually related to misconduct by an officer or at least preserved misconduct by an officer up to and including officer involved shootings. We in Denton have a phenomenal police department they go above and beyond to engage with the community, all segments of the community, especially when and during times that in other cities communications might break down so I don't see the need for an additional layer of bureaucracy overseeing the police department. I think we need to give the chief of police the room to make the reforms already working on and to continue to the good work they're already doing. All right. Anybody else. Okay, thanks that has direction. Thank you. Okay. The council having completed our work session reports the council will convene in a special called meeting to consider the following is a special call meeting is called to order at 826pm on November the 12 2019. The consent agenda. Councilmember Briggs, I recommend approval, except for the one with the minutes which I would suggest that the change be made that the request was made from our mentor and not Briggs. So, do we need to pull that. And we can that can that be done as part of the consent agenda that clear that correction of the minutes, it can be done, it can be done either way, but what the way, Councilmember Briggs word it is perfectly clear it's a simple change that's all it needs to be done. Okay, great. All right. Mayor Pro Tem. Second. We have a motion and second for approval of the consent agenda with the appropriate changes made to the minutes as as as made in the motion by Councilmember Briggs. That's, everybody who's in favor please signify by raising your right hand, or a hand. Anybody opposed but it looked like it carried unanimously. We'll move on then to our I believe it's items for individual consideration. Agenda, items to a, which is considered option of an ordinance of the city of Denton authorizing the execution of a contract of sale between the city of Denton as buyer and the corner corn is as trustee for a purchase of 71.34 acres. Good evening Mayor Council Manager I'm Deanna Cody deputy director of real estate capital projects. In support of the parks and recreations department master plan. The capital projects department real estate staff was engaged to assist with acquiring land for Denton's future park system. The goal for the land purchase was to assist in developing future parks, preserving open space and tree canopies to create connectivity using the trail system to encourage pedestrian traffic to city parks that 10 minute walk. And a combination of some are all of the above. The next two slides will show the property location on the south side of Mills Road just west of South Trinity Road as you can see highlighted in red. And the next slide shows aerial flyover shots of the area depicting a pond as well on the property. So as a general overview of the property again it's located on Mills Road north of McKinney Street. It's an approximate 78 71 acre tract of land that's heavily treed and it includes an approximate four acre pond. There are dense neighborhoods to the west and southeast and a planned community to the south and east. The property is also on the mobility plan for the future extension of post oak. Again the next slides are maps that show how the subject property supports the park department's 10 minute walk and connectivity and also goals and criteria including additional goals and criteria including adding the future park potentially called East Lakes Park to the overall park system. And it provides a future connection to the pecan Creek linear park. In conclusion in accordance with direction given to staff in September and independent appraisal was performed valuing the property at thirty five thousand dollars per acre. The property owner has executed a contract already at this point to sell the property as we've negotiated at thirty three thousand per acre. As I mentioned the owner agreed to the negotiated rate and has executed the contract for a total purchase price of two million three fifty four two hundred twenty dollars. So approval of this item will authorize the city manager to execute the contract that's been executed by the property owner and purchase the property for the public purpose. So just to confirm so this is first of all thank you for this and everybody involved and so just to confirm that that the money for this is coming out of the bond money and tree mitigation fund money is not coming from the general fund money that has been allocated for this purpose exclusively. So the funding sources that were identified were the tree mitigation fund and yes it did recently pass on the bond. So Gary's here if there's the bond funds though are not likely to be used until at least year three or four of the bond package David. Yeah. So the way the way that worked is although we have the authorization if you remember the police department projects are first in the major road projects follow depending on how the assessed value grows. So can you so could someone speak down if you could speak to this or whoever just kind of how that works does does the when the bond money does come in does it get reimbursed doesn't go back to where it came. I want to make sure that if it's pertaining to this project otherwise we're outside of posting but if you I've just heard that. Okay. All right. I just this is related to the David Gaines director of finance the 2014 bond funds. Oh that's for this purchase. I see. I see. Okay. So it would come from fun. Right. Okay. That 2014 tree is a prime tree is a primary source and then the 2014 bond. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember breaks. Yeah, I think this is a fantastic acquisitions very gratifying to see this very well thought through fulfillment of 10 minute walk goal tree canopy goals. It's a major step in parking and relatively on under part segment of town, I move approval. I mean, because there's a lot of trees here. And part of it is for preservation, I'm just wondering why the word partially the only reason why included partially is just because we know that the future post oak is going to come through there. So some of the trees and not many, I just didn't want it to appear as though all of the trees were going to be preserved there are some trees in some areas that may need to be cleared when the road goes through. So I have a question about that. If that goes through with CIP, with those, would they replenish the tree fund for the trees that they cut down. We can certainly make that a policy decision if the council would like that to be the case. I mean, I certainly got that discretion. Okay. And so and on this drawing, so the, the land that we're purchasing doesn't capture that top corner. And that looks like that's the way into the property is a separate tract of land. Okay, that is not part of the track that's being acquired. It's under separate ownership. Okay, but is that not the way into the proper that people get into their, their. First of all, the property actually fronts mills road. And there is also a narrow strip to the south of access, I wouldn't say it's not a full sized street, but it does have access to the cell. And have we done a tree survey to see what types of trees are. Gary pack and director of parks and recreation. We've not done a specific tree survey in the entire property. But, hey, would our tree urban forest did go out and take a look at and said the majority post oak. We went out there and we saw a lot of post oak, especially in this northeast corner. There's some great blackjack oaks out there as well. So there's a good, good stand of trees. And our goal would be to, you know, to integrate some trails to this. You can see just from the aerial that there's actually roads looks like there may be some four wheeling out there at one point in time. We would try to use that as a footprint for trails, whether it's soft surface gravel hard, whatever it would be, but work around and really preserve those groves of trees at very minimal put trails there, but use some of the open space down here on the southern end for any open play areas if we're going to program that the property obviously we don't have funding for development at this point in time. So it's, it's, it's an acquisition for future generation. But also we would go through a complete master plan of that community input neighborhood input to identify what that park would be used for. Because we're using such significant funds from the tree fund, I would hope that most that the preservation part of it would would stay intact. Absolutely. And I just want to say thank you for this. I know that this is something that the public has been asking for. They wanted to see from this council, a commitment to preservation and of old growth. And so this is pretty exciting. So, I will second. I'm good. I was going to second question. Let's see. So, when, when we take possession and we close and it becomes city park property. How would one gain access to walk through there to drop a hook in the water in that lake. You already had access to it at some point right. I mean, because that would be allowed if it's public property could somebody's going to be allowed to fish on that. Yeah, so it. I haven't walked in the pond or put a boat in there to go check it out. There was a tree standing there was a tree stand next to that pond. But, you know, this, this access from McKinney looks like it's an old driveway of sorts. It would be a good trail access, you know, a temporary one if we wanted to, we would need to look at getting out there and make sure we're securing it get make sure everything's cleaned up. I understand illegal dumping going on and patrol that park on a regular basis. There, there would be no parking, as of right now, unless we allow people to park on McKinney or on Mills. So we'd have to look at that from an access standpoint, we could look at opening it up just for walking access. It's curious. So I think that's something we could look at. Yeah, yeah, we will take you out there. Okay, we need to figure out a plan on how we're going to use that, you know, similar to Southwest Park. That area at Southwest is that's not open to the public. Right. So, we need to determine how we handle the property that we call it Southwest Park right now done off Bonnie Bray. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So obviously, I'm strongly in favor of this. I really like Councilmember Briggs idea about pre mitigation in this area and is it off posting to get consensus on that now should it be offered as a friendly amendment to this motion. Are you talking about the tree mitigation if the road goes through. Mm hmm. Yeah, that, that, I don't even know when that's going to happen. I think that's already a policy that the city abides by that we can discuss that later I don't think it needs to be attached to this is that city attorneys are correct. Well, I'm not going to vote for it if it's attached to this so that's fine. The posting for this agenda item is just for the simple purchase, you're making a separate independent decision on policy policy decision on reimbursement to a tree fund. So that would be separate. Okay. And so, so that would come back to Council at a later, later point. Okay, we have a motion and a second. I would presume so as Gary goes forward and presents a some type of development of this park property, how they envision doing that then at that time, we could stretch the posting to include that. Great. Thanks. All right. We have a motion to second all favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed passage unanimously going to agenda item to be considered option of ordinance homeroom municipal corporation authorizing city manager executed contract with archer Western construction. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council Frank Pugsley water utilities director. Just to summarize this project briefly. We just awarded a contract archer Western, a couple of months ago for the construction of the solids dewatering facility at Louisville plant. And they were the successful and only bitter for the Louisville plant phase two upgrades which includes primarily major maintenance at the plant, including improvements electrical skater chemical mechanical systems as well as to zebra muscle control systems that both raw water intakes for Ray Roberts and Louisville. We're also recommending accepting base bid alternate a two, which are improvements to the raw water intake actually physically in Louisville Lake. Right now we have two separate raw water intake elevations the lower intake is completely silted in and unusable. This project would desalt that and provide a structure to protect it from being resulted in so we'll have access to that lower intake in potential future droughts and just in general again it's just major major maintenance on the plant that has been deferred over the years. So we can be prepared to have this plant in its best shape possible as we move forward to expanding the Ray Roberts plant to increase our capacity in the not too distant future. I mentioned that we had one low bidder archer Western construction LLC in the amount of $15,588,880 for the base bid and add alternate a two. And again this project is primarily at Louisville plant but also has two subsidiary pieces at Ray Roberts intake and Louisville intake. I'll take questions. So I guess it's just the actual plant but on the lake intakes are do they do anything or we do anything to protect the water source from the activities that are around it source protection. In general, the water rights holders us Dallas and opportunity regional water district do encourage source water protection through the green belt plans one of those things that we're moving with the city so yeah we encourage all the surrounding municipalities and land landowners to protect the source water quality through effective storm water control. This project does not particularly affect that. Okay, so that's not part of it. Okay, thank you. So this looks great to me. I'm just wondering if you could speak to wise. Why do you think there's only one bid is it because it's a just specialized area. No, the reason we feel like there's only one bid is there's just a big glut of water and wastewater treatment working going on in the Metroplex right now, all the contractors are fairly busy. And they really don't have a need to to seek out too many projects. Again, we reached out to several contractors for this job to try to encourage them to bid. It is our understanding through discussions with Archer Western and one of the other contractors that Archer Western actually has a barge already mobilized on Louisville Lake for another project. So we feel like that at alternate a two is going to probably be the cheapest will ever achieve that without having to have someone to remobilize a barge. So, I think they all kind of understand and know what each other is doing so they may have chosen not to bid based on some of those reasons. Well, thanks. That's really interesting. That would explain why they were interested. Correct. Thank you. It's convenient for them. And they're already working at the plant as well. That lowers the cost. Yes, Mayor Pro Tem. Move approval. Mayor Pro Tem. Council Member Ryan. Second. We have a motion and second for agenda item 2B. Everyone in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Passes unanimously. Agenda item 2C. Consider adoption of an ordinance city of Denton, Texas, homeowner and investment corporation authorizing city manager to execute a contract with Lynx Construction. Yep. And Council Member Briggs will be recusing herself for this discussion. This is the updated. Thank you. Good evening. Mr. Mayor, Council Members, I'm Jody Strickland, project manager with facilities. Here to request your approval to award our low bidder Lynx Construction for our Fire Station 8 project. As you know, we removed this project from the bond committee and are now funding it with certificate obligation and general obligation funds. We had a good turnout for the bid. We had 11 bidders. One was late. We in fact had an excellent bidding result. Five of the lowest bidders were all within 3.5% of each other. That's pretty tight. That's a validation of what the cost is in this market. It's not like we got scattered all over the place. We are ready to move on this project as soon as you give your approval. And we'll probably start day one of construction just after the first of the year. Again, our lowest bid is Lynx Construction, a well-known local contractor. Anxious to do some more of our work. And we feel that the price is fair. I believe it was less than a point away from the second guy. We had some good qualified bidders, the low five, that responded. Any questions? Yes, ma'am. I'm happy to move -- I move approval. Councilmember Meltzer. Second. We have a motion and a second. Jody, I believe, is this your first presentation? Yes, sir. City Council, thank you so much. Congratulations. Great job. Very to the point, concise. I appreciate that. Thank you. I was warned. Oh, wow. Okay. There's a hot sports opinion. Okay. Thank you. That's even better. I like you. Yes, absolutely. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. All right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, please signify by raising your right hand. Motion carries 6-0 with one recusal/abstention. If someone could retrieve Councilmember Briggs. We'll move on to agenda item 2D. We'll go ahead and call it. Consider nominations and appointments to the city boards and commissions and committees. The chair would entertain an action on agenda item 2D. Mayor Pro Tem? I move approval. Councilmember Armitage? Second. We have a motion and a second for agenda item 2D. Everybody -- man, I'm literally tired. All in approval, please signify by raising your right hand. Motion carries 7-0, concluding items. Councilmember Briggs? So there will be a district 2 meeting at North Branch Library regarding parks and all of the things going on with parks, and if you saw today's presentation and you have any comments, please come between 2 and 4 at North Branch Library. Good. Councilmember Meltzer? Just expressing a wish that when we look at fire stations again, which of course we will at some point, that it's not an action item, no deliberation required on the number of any councilmembers, just including Mark, that we look into whether it's time and feasible to upgrade the quarters in stations 5 and 6 to the level that they are at the other stations. Good. All right. Fantastic. Yes, Councilmember Bryan? I sent out a notification today that starting on Monday night of next week, the 18th from 9 p.m. till 7 a.m., that Fort Worth Drive 377 will be closed for removal of the bridge on the 18th through the 21st, so it will be closed from 1830 from Country Club Road out to 35, and that bridge has been an impediment to get that road done for 30 years, so it's good to see it finally disappear. What bridge are we talking about? The railroad bridge? Railroad bridge. Oh, okay. Mayor Pro Tem. One thing, this Thursday, a couple of days out, Judge Tiffany Hurtling has her drug court graduation. That's at 3 o'clock, and it's County Court 442. If you've not attended that, it's a pretty impressive experience. Councilmember Davis? I just want to briefly acknowledge the passing of Bob Montgomery, longtime councilmember. It's taken the longest time to get this up on my phone. The service is on the way. The obituary is public, so unfortunately I have to Google it to find out where the service is and all those things. I can't get that up on my phone just at the moment, but a longtime public servant in Denton. Yeah, I did make a note of that earlier, so just to add a few of those details. I believe the service is at 1 p.m. on Friday at Build to Bury Funeral, and the family's asked that any donations be sent to United Way of Denton County, and Mr. Montgomery served on council from 2002 to 2008. So certainly send our condolences to his family, but a life well lived for the community. He certainly appreciated all his service that he gave with his time. Any other commitments? Concluding items? Seeing none, we'll stand adjourned at 850.