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 Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission work session for October 16th, 2019.

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 I'll call the meeting to order at 435, seeing that we do have a quorum.

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 Let the records show that Margie Ellis is absent at the start of the meeting.

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 The first item for review and for business is item 1A,

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 which is an update to the new format under House Bill 3167, I believe Richard has the presentation.

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 >> Thank you, I'll be brief.

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 I just wanted to just highlight, if you recall we had discussed a few weeks back, maybe it was a month or so ago,

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 regarding the impacts of House Bill 3167 and the 30 day shot clock with respect to platting.

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 And then the specific findings that we would need to make if we were to deny a plat.

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 And so tonight, while we have just one item that's under the shot clock,

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 they did meet all of the requirements, so there was no recommendation of denial.

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 But I just wanted to highlight in your backup, if you'll note with the plats where we typically just had a straightforward AIS.

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 What we've created was sort of a review criteria checklist, if you will, that outlines whether it's been met, not met, or not applicable.

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 And then if it's met, those reasons why, when and if we do get one for denial, those will be the reasons for that denial.

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 So it's clear you can see up front as to what the specific criteria are.

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 So I just wanted to point that out, that we'll be using this sort of format as we move forward with plats.

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 >> Thank you, Richard.

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 The next item of business is item 1B, which is to receive a report, hold a discussion, and

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 give staff direction regarding the changes to gas wells and subchapter eight of the EDC.

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 And so, who is presenting this?

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 >> Haley. >> Haley.

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 It's worth noting to the commissioners, if I understand this correctly, that there will be an opportunity for questions and answers of city attorneys.

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 If the attorneys deem that that might be a closed meeting discussion to be had,

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 we'll just refer that question later to the agenda and come back to it in a closed meeting.

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 So I think it's open to any questions, but we might be given counsel to withhold those to a closed meeting if we need it.

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 So that's on your agenda as a closed meeting.

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 It might or might not happen, depending on this discussion.

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 Thanks, Haley.

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 >> All right, so I don't know if all of you are familiar with gas wells or not.

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 So I wanted to start with just kind of a quick run down of where the code is today with gas well setbacks.

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 So the code establishes two primary types of setbacks.

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 The gas well drilling and production site setback is shown here on the left, and that is a measurement taken from the edge of a pad site to any protected use.

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 We'll look at what those numbers are later, but essentially it's 501,000 depending on the zoning and the case with the production site.

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 The second type of setback is what's called a reverse setback, that's what we'll be primarily discussing this evening.

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 That is a setback measurement that's taken from a protected use that's developing in proximity to a gas well pad site.

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 So those are typically 250 feet in the code today.

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 There is a- >> Mr. Beck.

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 >> Yes, sir.

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 >> So why are those two numbers different?

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 >> My understanding is- >> This is more of an education than anything else.

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 >> Well, and I was not here when this ordinance was adopted.

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 My understanding is that the thought process is when a gas well site is developing, the protected uses around it are already established.

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 So there should be room there for it to stay further away from those uses than say if a gas well site is already existing and

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 a homeowner knowingly wants to come in and build a protected use in close proximity to it.

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 So the numbers range from 1,000 to 250 across the board generally.

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 >> Thank you.

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 >> You're welcome.

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 And then there's a third type of setback that you'll see when we look at that, that's called a minimum setback.

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 As it's written today, that is the minimum distance that a gas well site has to maintain from a protected use after a variance or

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 some other type of relief is approved by either, there's multiple instances.

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 There's certain cases it can be approved by staff, other times it goes to ZBA, and then there's also opportunity for

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 all of the property owners of protected uses to provide a waiver.

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 And that could get them down as low as 250 feet in some instances.

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 >> So a little bit more background for you all.

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 This has been through extensive conversation with city council to date.

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 We've had three work sessions.

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 Originally in September of 2018, council asked for a discussion to come to them regarding how Denton compares to other cities and

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 how our setbacks relate compared to others in the area.

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 So that occurred last September, again in July, they requested that that come back for further discussion.

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 And at that time, council reached a general consensus that the reverse setback,

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 the one I referred to that's the measured protected use to pad site, should be increased from 250 feet to 500 feet.

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 And so that was the direction given to staff was to start working towards a code amendment to increase our reverse setback to 500 feet.

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 As recently as August 27th, we brought forward what those changes would look like to council.

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 So if we increase that, what the code amendments would look like, as well as some other issues that staff had identified,

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 such as the possible need for a variance if that setback increases 250 feet, as well as the creation of nonconformities.

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 So those discussions were brought to council in August, and they generally gave direction to one,

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 try to craft language that would prevent the creation of nonconformities as much as possible.

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 And two, to pursue a combination of the variance options that we presented to them.

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 So I'll outline those for you in more depth as we go through this.

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 >> Haley, if I can interrupt real fast.

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 As, I don't know if you can answer this.

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 Do we have the authority as a city to increase the reverse setbacks?

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 Is that within our authority?

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 >> I believe it is, but I may defer to legal counsel on that.

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 I believe as a zoning regulation we have that authority.

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 Is that correct, Jerry?

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 >> We do have some limitations on that and I don't know, do you want to address those now or do you want to do that at a later time?

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 >> Aaron Leal, City Attorney.

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 The, you know, normally setbacks are zoning regulation and we have that authority.

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 I know with respect to setbacks involving gas wells, they come under,

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 we do have a limitation under House Bill 40 which says that we're allowed to impose reasonable setbacks.

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 We don't know what that means, it's not defined in the code.

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 So there is that limitation on the zoning side, or zoning authority with respect to gas wells and their setbacks.

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 Reverse setbacks apply to the protected uses.

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 They're not gas wells, so House Bill 40 doesn't impact, so it's just a normal zoning analysis.

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 At the same time, which if it gets to there, we also, as I explained during the work session on July the 16th,

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 there is a takings analysis that we also take into account, into consideration.

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 I explained that at length to council and I'm free to do that as well here.

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 But that would be a separate limitation on the setbacks.

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 At some point, you know, we run into takings issues.

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 >> So if I understand correctly, the initial setback, the 500,000, is a limitation on new construction.

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 It's a limitation on the oil companies or the gas companies.

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 >> Yes. >> Reverse setbacks are a limitation on development, not the gas companies.

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 >> That is correct.

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 >> Is there any anticipation, it doesn't seem like the fracking groups or the momentum that was gathered behind HV 40 would come into play.

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 Because this particular is not against that industry.

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 It's against every other development that might want to encroach on the reverse setback limit.

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 >> That is correct.

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 It would apply just to protected uses, which goes beyond residential houses.

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 It includes other types of protected, other types of uses.

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 >> Okay. >> But yes, you are correct.

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 >> Thank you very much.

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 >> All right, so there are four primary topics that we'll get into today.

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 One is the increase of the reverse setbacks.

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 Second is those non-conformities that would be created that I alluded to.

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 Third would be the variance options that I just referenced and what council has directed staff to do there.

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 And then fourth would be some changes to how measurements are taken to certain uses such as parks that aren't clearly defined in the ordinance today.

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 So here is a summary of where we're at with our current gas well ordinance.

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 Setbacks, as I mentioned, are broken down into the drilling and production site setback that applies to the gas well operator.

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 The minimum setback that the operator can get to if they have a variance or some sort of waiver.

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 And then the reverse setback that's applicable to those protected uses developing near a gas well.

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 It's further bifurcated between zoning districts.

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 So the setbacks are broken down for new gas well sites and non-industrial districts versus industrial districts.

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 And then for existing gas well sites, it's also broken down the same way, industrial versus non-industrial zoning.

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 So those setbacks range anywhere from 1,000 feet for a new drilling and production site in a non-industrial district,

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 down to as low as 250 feet in the industrial districts and for the reverse setbacks.

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 Back in the summer when we brought this forward to council and they wanted an analysis of different setback possibilities.

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 We initially went through several land use analysis with them showing different scenarios and what land area would be affected by these.

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 Ultimately, the 500 feet is what they settled on.

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 So you can see that would increase the amount of acreage impacted by reverse setbacks by just over 2,600 acres.

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 And that's a total of 888 additional parcels of land that would be affected by that versus where we're at today with 573.

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 >> The increase is 2,600 or is the delta that's 600?

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 >> Right, this is the base number, this is what's in addition to that.

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 >> So it'd be an additional 2,600.

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 >> 4,200, 4,200, 4,200, 4,200, 4,200, 4,200, 4,200.

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 >> Yep, current.

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 >> Has this, Commissioner Beck.

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 >> We're 4,200, wait, so we're above 1,800, we're another 800 and change, does the delta, I'm just trying to understand the deltas here.

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 >> Everything 500 and beyond has the 250 base number netted out.

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 So this is the increase beyond the 1,800 that we're at today.

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 >> So the 2,630 is above.

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 >> Commissioner Beck, can you come to the mic, yeah.

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 >> The 2,630 is above the 1,800.

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 >> Correct.

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 >> So it's.

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 >> It's an additional 2,600 acres.

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 >> Thank you.

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 >> Commissioner Smith.

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 >> Thank you, Chair.

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 So the parcels affected, the 888, that's, of course, an additional on top of the 573.

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 So another, talking about 1,300, 1,400 parcels that are affected.

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 Specifically, when talking about affected parcels, are these parcels that have development that's already against those setbacks?

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 Is there any delineation between what.

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 >> This particular analysis didn't have any delineation.

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 >> It just had every guess well put the different setbacks on there.

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 >> As you can see here on the map, our GIS team just ran these various buffers that council was considering against all existing gas well sites that are in the city limits.

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 >> Okay. >> Of course, the setbacks being zoning don't apply to wells in the ETJ, but this is the analysis city wide from every gas well site that we have.

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 >> I'd be interested to see, I don't know if it's necessary, but I'd be interested to see if GIS can take it a step further to see what parcels have developed, what parcels aren't developed, meaning with.

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 >> We have that analysis and I can get that emailed out to you.

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 >> Just so we just have an idea because we're looking at if there's already, if we increase it to 500 foot setback but there's already a housing development that's next to the 250 or it's 300 feet setback already.

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 Increasing to 500 doesn't really necessarily affect that parcel, so to speak, but if of those 1,400 parcels, 1,000 of them are undeveloped.

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 So then we're talking about undeveloped land at that point in time, and so I'd like to know what that number would be.

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 >> Correct, and we have that analysis.

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 We may be able to dig through the O drive and find it if we want, but if not, we can email it.

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 >> We can include it as part of the, we can email it in advance, but I think we might hit to some of that when we get into, because it's really a two fold.

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 It's those that want to develop, but it's also those that are already existing, and if something happens to that property, their ability to rebuild.

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 >> Gotcha. >> And those numbers we do have.

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 >> Yes. >> Okay, all right, thanks.

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 >> I'll hold the question.

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 >> Okay. >> All right.

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 So I just wanted to give you guys a little bit of background about where council was at with this decision, and so this is what those changes would look like in the code.

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 If we look at that same summary table, across the board, the reverse would be increased from 250 to 500.

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 We are proposing to introduce a new type of setback called the reverse minimum setback, so same thing as what the gas well operator has.

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 Because of the risk of a takings claim, we wanted to offer the opportunity for a variance or a waiver.

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 And so this would be that minimum number that that variance or other waiver could reduce it down to, would be the 250 that they're already at today.

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 >> Commissioner Burnetta.

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 >> Can you give us an example of what would be something that a developer might use to qualify for that reverse minimum setback?

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 >> There are specific criteria that I'll get into for what that would look like.

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 There's hardship criteria if it goes to ZBA, and then there's other criteria that we've applied if it is something that staff could potentially approve.

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 So I can get into that a little bit later in the presentation.

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 >> Okay, thank you very much.

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 >> All right, so the second topic that, like I said, as we worked through this and started analyzing this,

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 we realized there would be a substantial potential increase in the amount of nonconformities.

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 We have some properties nonconforming to the 250 foot reverse setback today.

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 But of course, if that increases another 250 feet, there's a substantial amount of property that could be affected.

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 At the time we introduced those numbers, council directed us to try to add language to the code that would prevent creating nonconformities.

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 So there is some concern with this about certain nonconforming uses and structures being treated differently than others that staff has.

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 Legal also has similar concerns, but this is the draft language that we would bring forward if you all choose to recommend and council chooses to pursue this option.

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 And that would provide that the adoption of the increased setback shall not cause existing legally established protected uses to become nonconforming.

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 Such protected uses shall be deemed a lawful site feature lot or structure, provided that the use is not closer than 250 feet from the existing gas well.

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 So this would not change anything for things that are within the 250 foot nonconforming as it is today.

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 We would further define legally established to include any lawfully existing protected use structure or

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 site feature, or any lot that is part of a project, as defined in Texas Local Government Code Chapter 245,

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 that has filed a preliminary plat or general development plan that has not expired as of the effective date.

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 So that would capture projects that are in review with staff today, or that perhaps have a preliminary plat approved by you all but haven't final platted yet, and would allow those to continue moving forward.

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 And then we would also propose adding language that no additional improvements be added to these lots that would decrease the current setback.

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 >> Looks like there was a question.

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 >> Maybe, yeah, Commissioner Beck.

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 >> So what we're talking about here is whether that fraction of the 888 properties would go into conforming or rather nonconforming.

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 >> Not necessarily.

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 So this is the background data for that.

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 So as it is today, we have 349 total protected uses that we were able to identify that are nonconforming to the 250 foot reverse setback.

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 Those would not be changed with this language.

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 With the proposed 500, there would be 1,240 total protected uses on the ground today that would be potentially nonconforming to the 500 foot.

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 If we were to add this language to the code and allow those to be considered legally nonconforming,

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 that difference would be 891 nonconformities that would be, in essence, prevented by this language being added into the code, if that makes sense.

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 So what we looked at earlier was strictly a count of the number of parcels that fell within that setback.

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 This is a further analysis that our GIS team conducted to identify those that have single family,

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 multi family, a park, a school, a church, any of the protected uses existing on them today.

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 >> And that's the 751?

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 >> The 751 is the total of those protected uses that excludes Robeson Ranch.

202
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 So Robeson Ranch has its own gas well setbacks applicable.

203
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:53,160
 So when they ran the initial analysis, it included all of those and then I asked them to go back and net out Robeson because this wouldn't affect them.

204
00:16:53,160 --> 00:17:00,680
 So 751 would be the total outside of Robeson Ranch that would not become nonconforming if this language were adopted.

205
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,360
 >> And what was Robeson Ranch's setbacks?

206
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,840
 >> They have a 100 foot separation requirement written into their zoning documents.

207
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,000
 >> They have a 100 foot reverse or?

208
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,840
 >> I believe it's just phrased as a separation distance between homes and

209
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,400
 gas well parks as they're called in their documents.

210
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,520
 So Robeson is actually a plant development.

211
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:33,640
 >> So if I am understanding that, that's less than the 250 state minimum requirement then.

212
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,640
 >> There's not a state minimum requirement, because it is less than the 250.

213
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,040
 >> Who is the source of the 250 then?

214
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,480
 >> That's Denton's current ordinance.

215
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:42,980
 >> Okay.

216
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:48,260
 >> Did you want to add something?

217
00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:49,160
 >> I'm apparently out back again.

218
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,280
 I can give you some history on that.

219
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,680
 The reverse setback was not implemented until 2010.

220
00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,280
 It was August 2010, I think it was 2010-196.

221
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,960
 That's when the reverse setback came into being.

222
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,920
 Before then, the only separation distance was per the fire code, and that's 100 feet from the well.

223
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,400
 And so a lot of these houses are going to be less than the 250 that we implemented.

224
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:17,880
 That's why we came with the 250 reverse setback, because pre-2010, as the city was growing,

225
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,640
 residential subdivisions, especially on the south side, they started encroaching into existing gas wells.

226
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,160
 And so they instituted the reverse setback.

227
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,680
 But there are a lot of residential subdivisions that predate the 2010 reverse setback that are subject

228
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,880
 to that 100-foot separation distance.

229
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:40,560
 So that's just a little bit of background so you can understand about the 250 that was implemented in 2010.

230
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,000
 And there's a lot of development that already existed before then.

231
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,760
 Yes, sir.

232
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,000
 The 250 was initially an arbitrary number?

233
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,160
 I don't know, I was not here in 2010.

234
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:58,040
 I know that it was proposed to be changed in 2015 to 500.

235
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,920
 At that time, during the public hearings, I don't remember about P&Z, I know definitely at City Council.

236
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:10,400
 There were various developers, surface owners, real estate brokers that came out and started,

237
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,600
 complained or were concerned about the 500-foot setback when they raised the takings claim.

238
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,000
 At those public hearings.

239
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,800
 Is the 500 being proposed an arbitrary number?

240
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,560
 I'm wondering the research or the methodology, why are we coming up with these numbers?

241
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,400
 I know that Haley will get a little bit more in depth on that as far as how the council got to that number.

242
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,960
 And she can explain that to you.

243
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:34,960
 Christian or Bec?

244
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,280
 This is sort of a lead-in to that next one, so I'm not sure who the right person is to ask.

245
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,120
 And I'll wait for most of my questions when you get to that section.

246
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:52,000
 But if the justification for 100 or 500 feet is based on,

247
00:19:52,000 --> 00:20:00,480
 in that one example, the firefighter's needs and codes.

248
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:09,200
 Then how are, if they wanted to move to 500 feet for

249
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,880
 the firefighting needs, then how are we within that?

250
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,440
 Or our ongoing setback distances?

251
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,120
 >> Are you saying that the fire codes change 500 feet?

252
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,360
 >> If the fire codes are saying that they need 500 feet.

253
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,640
 >> Then I'd say 100.

254
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,200
 >> 100, but let's say, so the fire codes are 100 feet.

255
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:38,840
 And then they, but there was a, you were saying that there was a desire to move from the fire codes to 500 feet.

256
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,120
 Is that what I heard?

257
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:45,440
 >> No, that was a city zoning setback in Greece to 500 that was proposed at that time.

258
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,840
 >> And the rationale was for what reason at that time?

259
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:56,360
 >> It's my understanding that one of the reasons why the reverse setback came back was because of the increased

260
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,560
 development to the south side where a lot of the existing gas well parks are at.

261
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,120
 And there was also the incident, well I shouldn't say incident, but

262
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:09,960
 the SUP involving McKenna Park, the gas wells that the range resources wanted to develop across from McKenna Park.

263
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:17,720
 That was the trigger event that caused council to consider a larger setback than what the fire code requires.

264
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,320
 The fire code is not interested in setbacks, they're interested in

265
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:29,360
 maximum distance between an ignition source, like a gas well or a gas well tank battery.

266
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:35,680
 To various types of uses, it doesn't say house, but it just various types of uses and 100 is the minimum.

267
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,160
 In some cases it's 300, but that's all we had.

268
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,680
 It wasn't that the council purposely designed to have the 100 foot setback.

269
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:50,440
 The fire code is the fire code, it's always been there, and that was just the rule that we used in addition to the gas well ordinance.

270
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:57,040
 Back then, the fire department, the fire marshal specifically, was the one who would process the gas well permit applications.

271
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,520
 And the planning department would process the plats, gas well plats.

272
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:06,360
 So that's the only thing that was there, but the purpose was, again, for fire safety purposes,

273
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:11,320
 not necessarily for the zoning, which came in 2010.

274
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,560
 >> I'll reserve the rest of my questions for the later section.

275
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,400
 >> Okay, do you have a question?

276
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,200
 >> Yes, if we can go back to slide eight, I just wanted to, I have a question.

277
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:26,120
 Because reading this a few times, this looks to me just like a standard kind of grandfather clause.

278
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,640
 It says no, legal does not recommend adding this provision.

279
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,880
 Can you give us a little background on that note?

280
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,920
 >> Well, and I may have to let Aaron speak to that a little bit more.

281
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:42,840
 In general, the concern is that we would have, as this table shows, we would have existing non-conformities.

282
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,040
 And I have a graphic, actually, that shows this a little bit better.

283
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,240
 So in this example, we looked at what's non-conforming today.

284
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,880
 Those are the lots that are in red.

285
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,200
 What would be non-conforming to the 500, were this language not added, would be those in orange.

286
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:03,280
 So in general, zoning and our land use plans seek to decrease non-conformities over time.

287
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,160
 So there's concern, number one, that we would be allowing the continuance of non-conformities.

288
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:15,280
 But then the issue becomes the issue of these lots being treated different than those lots when they're all not meeting the standard.

289
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,360
 So you would have, if something were to happen in this instance and

290
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:26,120
 a tornado came through, say the lots that are in red that are non-conforming wouldn't be allowed to rebuild their homes.

291
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,920
 Those that are in orange, if this language were added, would be able to rebuild.

292
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:36,920
 So just the complication created by telling one person on one side of the road, you can rebuild your home, but the other person, your neighbor, can't.

293
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,080
 Because we wrote some language into the code that allowed them to not be non-conforming.

294
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,520
 And legal has further analysis of that that I can certainly let Erin provide.

295
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,960
 But in general, those were the concerns from development services staff with this potential language.

296
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,780
 >> Commissioner Anderson.

297
00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:58,160
 >> Does the state or does any, do they have a minimum recommendations for these setbacks?

298
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,400
 >> They do not, it's fine to say.

299
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,920
 >> They do not, so it's just arbitrary, we just kind of arbitrarily make up your own setbacks.

300
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,960
 >> Correct, and the setbacks vary across cities and across the state.

301
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,480
 It seems that the range of 250 to 300 is fairly common in some instances.

302
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,760
 I know Fort Worth has a 600 foot.

303
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,320
 Cities have various setbacks, we kind of fall in the middle of those ranges.

304
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,120
 >> Okay, thanks.

305
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:19,620
 >> Commissioner Cole.

306
00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:29,720
 >> So my home happens to be in 250 of Gaswell, has been for 15 years, so if my house burns down or

307
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,600
 gets hit by a tornado, you're telling me I'm not going to be able to rebuild a house.

308
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,880
 >> Commissioner Cole, is your mic on?

309
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,120
 >> Yeah, sorry about that.

310
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:37,200
 >> Thank you, thank you.

311
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,400
 >> But, I mean, is that the jest of it?

312
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,760
 >> Potentially, yeah, if you are non-conforming, the way the code is written in non-conforming use,

313
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,280
 if it's destroyed by more than 50%, it cannot be rebuilt.

314
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,240
 And a house that's been there for 70 years cannot be rebuilt.

315
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,880
 >> We'd have to look at that particular case and see the timeline, but if it's non-conforming, that's the way the code is written.

316
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,600
 >> Commissioner Smith.

317
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,720
 >> Thank you, Chair.

318
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,520
 There's not a way to grandfather in non-conforming, even if there is a destruction.

319
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,160
 Where is that, within the letter of the law, where is that coming from?

320
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,520
 Is it coming from, is that the definition of the 50%, is that coming from Texas local government code?

321
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,880
 Is that coming from our development code, is that?

322
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,160
 >> That's within our development code.

323
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,600
 Is there not a way for us to amend the development code to where we could, in this scenario,

324
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:30,400
 saying that if your structure existed before the setback, making you non-conforming, does get destroyed.

325
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,680
 You have the ability to rebuild, or does it allow us to go past what the code is at the point in time we develop,

326
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,560
 because it was existing prior to the code being changed?

327
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,780
 Is that something we should talk about in close, rather than?

328
00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:43,280
 >> What do you think?

329
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,600
 >> Sorry, Aaron.

330
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,120
 >> I'm sorry, Aaron.

331
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:54,960
 >> One thing that hasn't been discussed, remember, with non-conformities, it applies across the city.

332
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,320
 And so, if it's a-

333
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:04,760
 >> We can't specify the non-conformity for oil and gas setbacks, if non-conformity means a non-conformity.

334
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,920
 >> Because then, now you're treating different types of uses differently, those that are going to stay non-conforming.

335
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,040
 Now you've got a special class of non-conformities that we're going to allow to continue to rebuild.

336
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,000
 You're creating that scenario, and we have non-conformities all over the city.

337
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,080
 >> Yeah, sure. >> As long as they can continue to be used.

338
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:27,520
 But at some point, if they are destroyed by a fire or a tornado, and it's more than 50% and-

339
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,040
 >> And there's some non-conformities that are extremely good for safety reasons,

340
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:41,440
 like a building before the ADA was put in place and whatnot, and then those kinds of things where you need to abide by the code and be conforming at that point.

341
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,680
 >> And so that's where Haley's coming from, that you're now starting to treat non-conformities differently.

342
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:52,840
 You're only special if you live within so many feet of a gas well, but you're not special if you're elsewhere in the city.

343
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,800
 >> Yeah, I'd hate to split hairs down code on that, but I understand, I can see why Commissioner Cole's upset.

344
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,800
 >> Okay. >> All right.

345
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,400
 >> Thanks, Haley.

346
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,680
 >> I think that pretty much touches on everything I had for non-conformities, unless you guys have other questions.

347
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,280
 >> Chris Rebek.

348
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,360
 >> So are we going to touch on the rationales for the distances being proposed?

349
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,920
 >> Because that was sort of implied earlier.

350
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,480
 >> The, well, the rationale, as I said, council did-

351
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,800
 >> For the actual number.

352
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:29,240
 >> To my understanding, there isn't necessarily, if you're looking for a scientific basis or something like that, there simply isn't one.

353
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,120
 >> But what was the basis for council's decision on 500 feet is what I'm asking.

354
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:39,480
 >> It was based on this land use analysis and a desire to be somewhat similar to a Fort Worth study that

355
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:45,880
 established that a 600 foot setback from a wellhead in the city of Fort Worth could be considered a safe distance.

356
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,240
 Fort Worth's measurements are taken from wellhead to structure, ours are from pad site to structure.

357
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:58,240
 So when you run the numbers 500 feet from the pad site boundary as we measure it is roughly similar to the 600 feet from a wellhead.

358
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,000
 That was really the only further analysis beyond the land use data and just numbers that were discussed.

359
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:11,640
 >> And that's essentially a density argument that Fort Worth wanted a certain density on a minimum or

360
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,920
 maximum density of wellheads in these kinds of properties?

361
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,960
 >> No, no, in Fort Worth it's the same thing.

362
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:26,520
 They have a setback between a residential protected use that's considered for safety reasons a setback from the gas well itself.

363
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,800
 The only difference there is how they take their measurement.

364
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,160
 Theirs is from wellhead, ours is from pad site boundary, so typically the wellheads are in-

365
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:39,880
 >> So I guess what I'm asking, and I'm sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted, I guess what I'm asking is the rationale for

366
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,520
 whether it's we're cloning Fort Worth's 600 feet as our 500 feet or

367
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:53,440
 whether there's some other measure is the rationale for the particular distance safety,

368
00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:00,160
 density, air quality, health and water effects, what's the rationale for the number?

369
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:07,080
 >> I believe it would be a mixture of all of those things, just speaking from what council has brought up at air quality, safety.

370
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:14,440
 All of those things were discussed, there's not data to solidify what those numbers would be.

371
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:20,800
 So we're basing it on the study from Fort Worth that was the closest comparable study that's been done.

372
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,080
 >> But there's nothing limiting us to following that Fort Worth study, is there?

373
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,560
 I mean- >> In terms of 600 versus 500?

374
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,520
 >> In terms of rationale.

375
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,960
 We're not, there's no requirement that we need to follow that Fort Worth study.

376
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,440
 >> Certainly not.

377
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,800
 >> And so then, this may be more of a question for legal and less for city planning.

378
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:47,720
 But what are our requirements in terms of takings,

379
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,800
 in terms of health and safety, in terms of fire code?

380
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:58,000
 What is the requirements of the city to these various stakeholders?

381
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,760
 >> Well, fire code I believe is a 100 foot standard.

382
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:13,120
 And as far as safety, this is all home rule authority that is the basis for these setbacks that are established.

383
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:20,240
 And I think Haley's right, I think there's a number of different factors that entered into the regulatory mindset.

384
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,800
 I don't know what Fort Worth, what theory predominated in their analysis or calculation.

385
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:34,300
 I don't really even know what theory, there was one theory alone that predominated with respect to dentin.

386
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:38,160
 I think it was a combination of different factors as Haley indicated.

387
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:44,520
 >> So do we have particular requirements in our city code or

388
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:52,880
 that govern our actions that would impact on this number that we need to follow?

389
00:30:52,880 --> 00:31:00,760
 In other words, do we have a responsibility to say, if there's a study that says 1,000 foot is the better distance or

390
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,080
 half a mile is the better distance for a particular rationale.

391
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:15,940
 Is there a legal requirement that we should, must follow a particular rationale?

392
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:26,240
 >> Well, I think we would follow a given rationale if there were one that we could count on as being definitive for all situations.

393
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,480
 But there are a variety of studies that are out there, and a lot of them come to different conclusions.

394
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:40,160
 >> And so if there is a variety of studies, we throw up our hands and we say,

395
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,880
 well, there's a variety of studies and we're not going to do anything?

396
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,200
 >> No, I don't think that's what I said.

397
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,640
 >> No, I'm not trying to pin you down to that.

398
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,640
 >> Right, yeah, I think that the council spent a good long time and

399
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,320
 very carefully considered a number of factors in coming up with these numbers.

400
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:03,240
 I think that there are some people who would like to revisit those numbers for one reason or another.

401
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,000
 And I think that this is part of what this process is all about.

402
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:15,400
 It's part of the governmental process of determining what numbers are the most appropriate for the reverse setbacks.

403
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,880
 And that's not to say that one is per se better than the other.

404
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,760
 I think it's just part of the governmental process.

405
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,160
 >> And if it does help, the information was presented to council regarding what the cost and

406
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,760
 time frame would be for Denton to conduct its own study, similar to what Fort Worth did.

407
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,840
 And they, at the time, have chosen not to move forward with that effort.

408
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,880
 But that information was presented to them as an option that if we wanted that basis based on our own data,

409
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,440
 such a study could be conducted, but they've chosen not to move forward with that to date.

410
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:55,560
 >> So if council has moved this issue back to our work study group for

411
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:01,160
 us to make clarifications and decisions about, what is it that,

412
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:07,240
 is council simply asking whether 500 is a number that we can agree to?

413
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:14,440
 >> So if I could interject, on November 6th, this is going to come back to us for our official recommendation and vote back to council.

414
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,440
 So this is just the introductory conversation about what's happening at the city level.

415
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:26,840
 In a month from now or two weeks from now, we will actually make a recommendation that goes to the city council for them to actually vote to change this.

416
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:34,200
 As part of the development code amendment process, we're required to hold two public hearings, one at Planning and Zoning Commission, one at City Council.

417
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,120
 So rather than bring this to you all cold on November 6th, which is the tentative date for public hearing,

418
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:46,120
 Richard decided it would be best to have an introductory work session like this to brief you all on where we're at, what council has discussed to date.

419
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:53,480
 So that when you see a draft ordinance or a draft of the code amendment before you on the 6th, you have a little background data to base that decision on.

420
00:33:53,480 --> 00:34:00,640
 >> And I appreciate everyone clarifying because this is my second event here, so thank you.

421
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,800
 >> Commissioner Pernetta.

422
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:11,320
 >> Yeah, and I just kind of wanted to kind of reset real quick because with regards to Commissioner Beck's questions.

423
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,560
 There is no study that sets a number, right?

424
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,960
 I think Colorado has their setback somewhere about 1,200 feet.

425
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:26,080
 Fort Worth is at 600 compared to us, Fort Worth's production is significantly less dense than Denton.

426
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:33,880
 We know that this is air, and air doesn't stop blowing particulates after 1,000 feet, which is the problem.

427
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:41,640
 Right now, we have 1,000 for the setbacks, not the reverse setbacks.

428
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:50,400
 What we're looking at right now on this screen is simply how close we can put new developments to an existing well.

429
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:56,200
 And the numbers we're looking at are primarily based not on science but

430
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:04,160
 on how much it would affect people who are already living in this town compared to their proximity, right?

431
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,360
 >> This is simply an analysis of how many parcels are within those acreages.

432
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,520
 >> Okay, all right.

433
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:18,720
 And I just wanted to kind of get to that because as somebody who's son has asthma, it's kind of a big deal.

434
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:25,560
 And I know that 500 isn't going to be far enough.

435
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:31,640
 I know that 500, according to some things that I've seen, isn't necessarily far enough to be safe in the event of a fire.

436
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:41,040
 But what we're doing is attempting to, I guess, put a little bit of additional distance from where we are right now, I think, all right?

437
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,800
 >> It's definitely a discussion.

438
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,360
 >> Okay, all right, thanks.

439
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,840
 >> Commissioner Beck.

440
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,320
 >> And I want to beat a slightly related dead horse here a little bit.

441
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:59,360
 If we are having a discussion about 500 and the ramifications of that and

442
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:05,000
 then there are rationales that come forward in the future that say,

443
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:11,160
 well, we do need the other 500 or we need another 1,000, so we need to push it out to 1,500.

444
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:17,320
 We'll be revisiting this discussion at a future date

445
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:24,960
 with essentially the same arguments, the same amount of taking, the same amount of owns, the same amount of developments.

446
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,440
 But we will have allowed non-conformities to then, I mean,

447
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:39,800
 they won't have occurred by our 500 foot rule or 200 foot rule, but they will occur in a hypothetical 1,500 foot rule.

448
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,960
 And it's not like we're not thinking about those things.

449
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:48,640
 So I guess I urge us to think about those things a little bit.

450
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,400
 >> Any other questions right now?

451
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,680
 I assume you have more slides.

452
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,640
 >> Yes, all right.

453
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,400
 So I think you got the gist of the non-conformities.

454
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,560
 Again, this is the language council directed us to add.

455
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,600
 There are concerns on the staff and the legal department side with that.

456
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,800
 But this is the draft language that would come forward to you all on the 6th as it is today.

457
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:20,920
 So the third option or the third aspect of this code amendment that I wanted to touch on would be the variance options.

458
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:26,480
 As I mentioned earlier, for gas well operators, if say the 1,000 foot setback applies to them,

459
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680
 they have three different options to apply for a reduction in that.

460
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,160
 One of those is a staff option where if they have multiple production sites,

461
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,240
 they can basically put in writing that they will limit or

462
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:42,960
 close operations at one site and will be able to add more wells at a different site.

463
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,920
 So that's one variance option for them.

464
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,520
 They can also go to ZBA to seek a reduction down to the minimum setback if they meet the hardship criteria.

465
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:58,680
 Or they could get a waiver signed by 100% of the owners of protected uses within the setback to reduce that number.

466
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:05,280
 So operators, as it stands, have three different choices they can go to if they need to seek relief from the 1,000 foot setback.

467
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:12,520
 So with increasing the reverse setback from 250 to 500 to help with the potential takings claims that Legal has mentioned,

468
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:19,600
 we're introducing two options for a protected use developer or owner to seek similar reductions.

469
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:26,560
 So the first of those options for them would be to go to ZBA through the standard hardship variance process.

470
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:34,280
 That could reduce the reverse setback from 500 down to 250 which we again establish is that reverse minimum setback.

471
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,320
 They would have to be able to prove that they meet all of the hardship criteria that exist in our code today.

472
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:46,680
 So prove that there are special circumstances on their property, that there would be no adverse impacts to the city or the surrounding area.

473
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,220
 That there's reasonableness to their request based upon the conditions in the area.

474
00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:56,040
 And in addition to those, we would introduce some specific criteria for protected uses.

475
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,360
 And those would be the reasonable use of the surface of their property by the owner or developer.

476
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,480
 The availability of alternative site designs or subdivision layouts.

477
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:11,080
 So if someone was bringing forward a subdivision and saying we need to reduce this so that we can add ten more lots, did they look at other options?

478
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:17,000
 Are there ways that they could reconfigure the site that wouldn't render the need for that reduction?

479
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,000
 And then finally, compatibility with existing gas well development site plans or plats.

480
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,560
 Almost all of the sites within the city have a gas well plat on them today that establishes the access routes to the pad site.

481
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,040
 That's something that we can't take away.

482
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,040
 Our code doesn't allow us to do that.

483
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,800
 It stipulates that when someone plats within a gas well plat, they have to provide for

484
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:43,960
 similar, the same access or some alternative that the operators approve, so we would honor that same thing here and ensure that access to the site is maintained.

485
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,480
 And just so you all know, a ZBA vote for a variance would require a three quarters vote.

486
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,520
 All of their decisions require six out of seven members to grant that variance.

487
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,240
 >> Commissioner Smith.

488
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:59,960
 >> So back to Commissioner Cole's question then, they'll say that a fire does burn down his building, his home.

489
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:03,600
 But do you mean that he can go apply for a ZBA approval for it?

490
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:11,560
 >> No, a variance would be for someone developing a new use site, it could not help a non-conformity.

491
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,120
 >> Why is that?

492
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:21,520
 Why is there a delineation then of, you can go down to 250 if you're building new, but you can't be down to 250 if you're a non-conformity.

493
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:32,240
 I get it, if Jason's house was 100 feet away from the gas well, I'd get that because it's past the minimum reverse setback, but why the difference there?

494
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:34,120
 >> Is that a closed session conversation?

495
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,160
 >> It's not necessarily a closed session conversation, but you know.

496
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,680
 >> You just think I'm an idiot, Jerry, I know.

497
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:45,120
 >> No, it sort of gets into the rationale of legal nonconformities.

498
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,240
 The whole idea of legal nonconformities is that you want,

499
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:55,640
 eventually, all properties to fall within the regulations of the municipality.

500
00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,400
 And part of that is you're anticipating that some of them are going to go away.

501
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,640
 You don't apologize for that.

502
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,640
 Sometimes that happens.

503
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:16,120
 You don't impose a regulation on someone as an ex post facto law that they can't meet while living in a particular location.

504
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:23,320
 And so due process requires that you permit them to remain in place under the laws that they came in under.

505
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,800
 That's simply a requirement.

506
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,080
 And but that's not still the case when, I don't know,

507
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:38,400
 somebody's sign falls down or their house falls down or burns down or what have you.

508
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,480
 The expectation is that they will rebuild under the new standard, whatever that is.

509
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:56,020
 And so if you provide some other method for them to come back in permissively,

510
00:41:56,020 --> 00:42:04,680
 that's something that's above and beyond the ordinary application of the legally nonconforming use standard.

511
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,080
 >> Okay, Mr. Anderson.

512
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:10,960
 >> I agree, thank you, by the way.

513
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,040
 I agree, but I kind of disagree with you at the same time.

514
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:19,840
 Because if you're in a subdivision, and all of a sudden we do set back at 500 and that becomes a nonconformity.

515
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,560
 You have a house in the middle of a subdivision that burns down.

516
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,440
 We're not going to allow them to rebuild.

517
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,960
 So you're going to have a couple of vacant lots between homes.

518
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,640
 That just doesn't seem right to me.

519
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,560
 I mean, that's just my personal opinion.

520
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,480
 I think they should be allowed to rebuild in a neighborhood.

521
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:36,480
 I just don't understand.

522
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:44,360
 >> And that's certainly where individual city ordinances come in for those decisions to be made.

523
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,360
 The limitation for legally nonconforming use is kind of a one-sided limitation.

524
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,880
 It sets a floor, not a ceiling.

525
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:58,000
 And so we have to allow in zoning regulations for

526
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:05,200
 legally nonconforming uses if the regulations change to make an existing structure nonconforming.

527
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,200
 They're legally nonconforming as a matter of due process.

528
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:16,800
 But there's no constitutional standard that sets a ceiling for that or otherwise limits it.

529
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:25,120
 Yeah, you can set a standard that does provide some protection along those lines.

530
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,400
 You could even, for that matter, rezone everybody if you want to.

531
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,360
 But there's a number of ways of dealing with that.

532
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,760
 But it's not part of the legally nonconforming calculus.

533
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:47,840
 >> So Haley, as a matter of discussion, it seems like this language is super ambiguous.

534
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:55,040
 And I would love to see if the city could actually square this up to measurable items that we could see what hardship is.

535
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:04,720
 There's special reasonableness, reasonable availability of alternative site designs based on who's assessment availability.

536
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:10,040
 I don't know if this is the actual language being used for hardship process.

537
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:17,120
 But my two cents would be, let's clarify what the person has to do to meet the hardship.

538
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:22,320
 And it's an equal field for everybody, rather than having this in different city employees.

539
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:28,280
 It just adds an array of approval abilities for hardships.

540
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,400
 >> We can certainly try to further clarify these additional criteria for this.

541
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:40,520
 The standard hardship criteria would be a bit more of an amendment because those are standards applicable to variances across the board in the city.

542
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,160
 >> And that's the language we use in our city?

543
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:48,240
 >> Yes, and Jerry, can you attest to, is that similar to what state law requires?

544
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,760
 Is it not the standard- >> Which language are we talking about here?

545
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,320
 >> The special circumstances and reasonableness based on a condition.

546
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,800
 >> I don't remember what the criteria are.

547
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,840
 >> I believe ours are similar to the state center, but we can look into it.

548
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:09,360
 Just so you know, that change would affect across the board rather than just this particular instance.

549
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,760
 >> Understood, it seems like a moving target.

550
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:20,600
 >> Yeah, it is rather vague, but at the same time somewhat hard to prove that you meet those standards.

551
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:30,960
 >> The other variance option that council kind of directed us to move forward with was similar to what operators are allowed.

552
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,960
 And that if they can meet certain criteria, staff can approve a reduction in setback that isn't all the way down to the minimum.

553
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,520
 It's to 50% of the difference between the minimum and the required.

554
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:50,440
 So for an operator that has a 1,000 foot setback and the minimum is 500, we can get it to 675, not all the way to 500, through the staff process.

555
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:56,560
 So this would be similar in that if they can meet these criteria, staff could allow for a reduction down to 375 feet.

556
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,960
 So half of the difference between 500 and 250.

557
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:05,320
 And in these cases, the administrative relief could only be granted if they can prove

558
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,400
 that the reverse setback would result in 50% or less of the subject property being buildable.

559
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:17,760
 And if they have applied all of the applicable alternative development standards that we are proposing to allow for.

560
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:24,240
 So what that looks like is in the code as it is today, if you remember for residential subdivisions,

561
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:34,480
 we offer a cluster subdivision design where basically the minimum lot sizes are reduced from 7,000 in some zoning districts down to 2,000, 2,500.

562
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:40,520
 The setbacks are reduced for the lot, so it basically allows for a much denser type of subdivision.

563
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,960
 So for residential, that could be applied and all of the cluster subdivision standards could be utilized

564
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,640
 without having to rezone your property to PD, which is the standard for city-wide.

565
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:51,800
 >> Commissioner Panetta.

566
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,400
 >> Yeah, I have a question, I don't see it in here.

567
00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:00,880
 My understanding is right now production is actually dropping in the area in terms of fracking and stuff.

568
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:10,280
 Do we have anything in place that addresses whether or not wells are capped, closed, that kind of thing going forward?

569
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:16,960
 Would we reevaluate it or is it, once there's ever been a well there, it will always be applied?

570
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,680
 >> These standards are applicable to gas wells that are existing and in production, active wells, if you will.

571
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:27,320
 Once a well is plugged and abandoned, the code currently does not have any setback requirements at all.

572
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:36,000
 That's something that we know is a gap in our existing ordinance, but it's not within the scope of what council directed us to do with this.

573
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:42,800
 But these standards essentially go away once a well is plugged and a site is abandoned and remediated in accordance with state law.

574
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:43,520
 >> Okay, thank you.

575
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,280
 >> Commissioner Cole.

576
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,160
 >> Thank you, Chair.

577
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,680
 So what about the properties that years ago the city

578
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:59,240
 annexed and gave special agreements on setbacks?

579
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:04,240
 Do those go away that were negotiated during annexation with property owners?

580
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:06,920
 Or how does that work?

581
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,400
 >> I guess I'm not aware of-

582
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,160
 >> I think what you may be talking about is the non-annexation agreements?

583
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,480
 >> During annexation agreements, yes.

584
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,800
 >> But they were non-annexation agreements, these were for-

585
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,160
 >> So they were annexed, but during annexation negotiations,

586
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,400
 asked for certain setbacks and were given certain setbacks.

587
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,800
 >> I'm not familiar with that, are you?

588
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,200
 >> Aaron Lialigan, City Attorney.

589
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:43,560
 I'm not familiar with that actual type of provision being inserted as part of the annexations.

590
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:50,440
 The majority of the annexations that occurred that didn't get NAAs were the involuntary annexations, which were completed for the most part.

591
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,720
 Then we had three different areas of the city that had a special

592
00:48:55,720 --> 00:49:02,080
 negotiations per state statute, but most of those dealt with municipal services,

593
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,640
 at least a lot of the bargaining and some were given that.

594
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:13,680
 As far as during those discussions where we had discussed anything about setbacks and gas wells, that didn't come into that discussion.

595
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,560
 I was involved in the past, not the 2010, but the 2015, 2016.

596
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:21,520
 >> Okay.

597
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,160
 >> Three, two.

598
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,720
 >> If it's something that old, I'm not as familiar with that.

599
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:31,120
 I know the majority of the annexations that are pending, or I'm sorry, that were completed.

600
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:36,040
 >> And those that are pending via non-annexation agreements, 2000 on is what I'm familiar with.

601
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,840
 >> That were given, granted.

602
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,520
 >> And that may certainly be the case.

603
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:46,160
 I mean, I know we can ask work with staff to try to find those annexation ordinances and

604
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,400
 maybe they can get together with you offline to see if they can have some easier learning than that.

605
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,960
 >> All I want to know is, does this supersede that?

606
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,440
 If that exists.

607
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,160
 >> It depends on the facts at hand.

608
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:07,320
 If they were annexed into the city, and there was no development, and then we instituted the 250 foot setbacks with the 500,

609
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:13,120
 and then development comes, they're going to be caught by, or subject to the 500 or the 250 foot setback.

610
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:19,960
 >> And maybe that what you're referring to is the master plan communities, the Colen Hunter ranches.

611
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:26,520
 And they did have some gas well setback provisions that were negotiated and

612
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:33,040
 established within those MPC regulations, but that's after they were already annexed into the city.

613
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:40,120
 And so, that was a process that was set up by ordinance to allow for

614
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:45,960
 that in the event that you have a master plan community like those were that

615
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:53,400
 provided for a variety of uses and to have some customized standards that applied for

616
00:50:53,400 --> 00:51:02,160
 very, very large comprehensive developments, and so that was consistent with the ordinances that existed at the time.

617
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:07,520
 But no, they could not be subjected to the MPC process unless and

618
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,360
 until they came into the city as part of an annexation.

619
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,280
 >> Thank you.

620
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:13,280
 >> Thank you, Jerry, for that.

621
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:18,920
 >> To clarify Commissioner Cole's question though, this would not override an MPC agreement.

622
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:25,800
 >> No, until they think of the MPC as a separate DDC and they're subject to their own rules.

623
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:26,560
 >> That's helpful, thank you.

624
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,720
 Back to you, Haley.

625
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:42,080
 >> Yeah, so where we're at with this is the staff variance possibility would apply if more than 50% of the site is affected by the reverse setback.

626
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:48,360
 And then for residential subdivisions, they would additionally have to at least attempt applying our cluster subdivision standards to

627
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:54,800
 maintain as much buildability back as possible, and then for any other protected use that isn't a residential subdivision,

628
00:51:54,800 --> 00:52:01,480
 we would allow for certain reductions in addition to the minor modifications that the code already allows staff to approve.

629
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:07,280
 So that would be a 20% increase in building height and building coverage to give them essentially more density on the lot.

630
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:12,080
 And then a decrease by 20% in the minimum parking and minimum unit size.

631
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:18,520
 And then if this combination of standards does not yield them a comparable result or a desirable result,

632
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,440
 they could still go through the ZBA hardship process if they felt they had a hardship case.

633
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,640
 And this is just an example of kind of what that would look like.

634
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:34,080
 This is a site off of Windsor where the property is owned by a church in this instance, which is a protected use.

635
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,080
 They have a gas well site that immediately adjoins their property.

636
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,320
 The red buffer shows what that 250 foot setback looks like today.

637
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,520
 It encumbers 39% of their property.

638
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,160
 If there was a 500 foot setback applicable, that would be the green circle.

639
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,120
 That would encumber 96% of their property.

640
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:54,960
 So they would meet that 50% threshold to be considered for a staff reduction.

641
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,320
 So staff could, in theory, reduce that as low as 375 feet and

642
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,600
 gain them almost 30% of their property back into developability.

643
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,400
 So if that were enough for them to develop, they could move forward under that perhaps.

644
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,840
 If not, they could go to ZBA for further reduction.

645
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:12,940
 >> Mr. Beck.

646
00:53:12,940 --> 00:53:15,120
 >> So in that picture, can you flip back?

647
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,120
 There we go.

648
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:21,360
 In the 50% reduction orange line, the 375,

649
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:28,640
 I know these are kind of cartoon eyeballs and not precise surveys.

650
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:34,120
 But that one house in the southwest corner that's basically on the property line would

651
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,740
 then also become non-conforming?

652
00:53:38,740 --> 00:53:41,880
 >> Are you referring to the houses down here?

653
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,700
 So yes, if the 500 foot reverse setback were adopted and

654
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:51,400
 the language that we looked at earlier is not added to the code, yes, the homes and

655
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,080
 the lots that are within this green radius would become non-conforming.

656
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,360
 If you all choose to recommend and council adopts that language that we looked at earlier

657
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,920
 that would essentially prevent them from becoming non-conforming to the 500, then they would

658
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,200
 be considered legally conforming uses still as they are today to the 250.

659
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:11,200
 >> Okay.

660
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,200
 Thank you.

661
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,000
 >> All right.

662
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,000
 And then the fourth and final topic for this work session is some clarification on how

663
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,880
 reverse setbacks are measured, particularly at parks.

664
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,240
 So a public park is a protected use.

665
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:33,480
 Basically the DDC defines that the reverse setback measurement is taken from either the

666
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:38,000
 closest point of the proposed structure to be occupied by a protected use in a straight

667
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:43,440
 line to the closest boundary designated for the gas well site or for a residential subdivision

668
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,680
 plot it has to be taken from the undeveloped residential lot boundary to the closest boundary

669
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,660
 designated for the gas well site.

670
00:54:50,660 --> 00:54:55,000
 For something such as a park that doesn't have occupied structures typically, that leaves

671
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,640
 it very vague as to where those measurements are taken.

672
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,560
 In the past this wasn't necessarily an issue.

673
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,360
 Very few of our parks are even touched by the 250 foot, but with the 500 foot we did

674
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:12,120
 find McKenna Park in particular is significantly within that 500 foot setback.

675
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,640
 So staff is proposing to add some clarifying language to state that for the purpose of

676
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,680
 a setback measurement at public parks, a structure shall be considered any improvement such as

677
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,560
 a building, playground equipment, pool, splash pad, clearly delineated ball field or court

678
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:26,680
 or pavilion.

679
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,520
 This would not include flat work such as parking lots, sidewalks or trails.

680
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:36,360
 Just to show you where this concern came from, again McKenna Park was the driver for this.

681
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,800
 They are 9% of the park is within the 250 foot today, but there's no improvements in

682
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,300
 that area.

683
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:45,920
 With the 500 foot, 40% of the park would be encumbered by the setback and they do have

684
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,760
 improvements such as the ball court and some pavilions that are within there.

685
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,480
 So we wanted to make sure we understood for our parks department moving forward what this

686
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,680
 would mean as they possibly have other park line dedicated or developed in proximity to

687
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,920
 Gasswells on the south side of town.

688
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,840
 And then additionally we are seeking some guidance from you all.

689
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:10,280
 We would also recommend extending the same measurement technique to other similar protected

690
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:15,600
 uses that have outdoor recreation components such as schools, multi-family daycares.

691
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,000
 It's currently not addressed in our code.

692
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,280
 They would be measured to the building since that's the occupable structure.

693
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,520
 But that is one area where we were kind of considering back and forth on which way to

694
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:29,300
 take this and it seems most consistent that we would extend the same protection for other

695
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:30,920
 outdoor recreation uses.

696
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,760
 But I wanted to get some feedback from you all on that before we add that language into

697
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:35,760
 the code.

698
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:41,840
 I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on that one.

699
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:47,360
 It would seem reasonable to extend it if we're looking at parks to outdoor spaces at schools

700
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:48,360
 and the like.

701
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,360
 Okay.

702
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,200
 Then we can certainly bring back a red line of the code that includes that measurement

703
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,200
 technique.

704
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,520
 And again, just as a reminder, the next steps for this would be the dual public hearing

705
00:56:58,520 --> 00:56:59,720
 process.

706
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:04,680
 So as it is now, we are planning to notice the public hearing for the November 6th Planning

707
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,360
 and Zoning Commission meeting and then subsequently to City Council on November 19th if you all

708
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,920
 make a recommendation on the 6th.

709
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,960
 And that is all I have for you guys so I'm happy to answer other questions.

710
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:15,960
 We have some questions.

711
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,880
 Christian or Bec?

712
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:22,080
 So can we flip back to that picture just for a second that you showed me, Kenna Park.

713
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:29,560
 So we're talking about playground equipment and everything as being the site from which

714
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:30,560
 we measure.

715
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:38,380
 Do we have language in our code that delineates use?

716
00:57:38,380 --> 00:57:45,000
 Is there a difference in the trail on the, what do you call, what's the green space that

717
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,000
 runs between the lakes?

718
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:55,640
 The green belt, thank you.

719
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,640
 I knew this green was in there somehow.

720
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:04,560
 The green belt primarily trail, maybe some outhouses or whatever, some parking.

721
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:11,800
 Is there a distinction between use, that kind of outdoor recreational use and outdoor recreational

722
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:21,120
 use say at a school or a hospital playground or something like that where there's clearly

723
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:28,880
 a group of our citizens that are maybe more vulnerable than bicyclists going between the

724
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,400
 lakes?

725
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,200
 Flat work as we've got it proposed would be excluded altogether because flat work doesn't

726
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:40,200
 constitute a structure and the code did specify a structure so we went with that same thought

727
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:45,320
 process so as it stands a trail regardless of whether it's at a park or a school or anywhere

728
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,600
 else wouldn't be, the measurement wouldn't be taken to that.

729
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:54,520
 I meant more for apples to apples so if we choose a structure, the outhouse, the whatever

730
00:58:54,520 --> 00:59:03,200
 improvement counts as an improvement, do we have rules in our code such that we delineate

731
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:10,240
 typical use or would this, would we just be giving a blanket to all such outdoor kind

732
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,240
 of development?

733
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:12,240
 I think I see what you're saying.

734
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,960
 So the primary use of the property would still have to be one of the defined protected uses

735
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:20,380
 so if it's a playground at a daycare then yes with this measurement technique we could

736
00:59:20,380 --> 00:59:26,700
 measure to the playground at a daycare versus if an office building had a playground outside

737
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:29,240
 because kids occasionally go there with their employees.

738
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,760
 The office building is not a protected use so that wouldn't affect that particular playground.

739
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:34,760
 Does that answer your question?

740
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:35,760
 That answers my question.

741
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:36,760
 Thank you.

742
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,760
 Commissioner Panetta, you still have a question?

743
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,800
 Give me a second.

744
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:42,800
 Yep.

745
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,600
 Do you have more slides or is this the conclusion?

746
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:47,600
 No, that was it.

747
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:53,640
 But the one question I had at the beginning I still have now and I certainly appreciate

748
00:59:53,640 --> 01:00:00,880
 especially knowing Commissioner Panetta's family situation, the health risks of this

749
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:05,640
 but I'm struggling to understand the rationale.

750
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:13,280
 It does, I wish I had more information about the precipice of what took place to change

751
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:23,000
 this and moreover probably the legality of removing 4400 acres of property owner's property

752
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:30,080
 from use, not only for their investment, personal or otherwise, but also taking that off the

753
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:35,000
 tax rolls and the cost to the city and I think where I am is a tension of understanding the

754
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:42,600
 health which I think is valid but maybe undetermined from the data that I've heard today to the

755
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:50,360
 aspect of the economic factors going into this and is there a legitimate takings issue

756
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:55,080
 of someone who's owned property for a long time because if you look at all those dots,

757
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,680
 that heat map, we're expanding from a red circle to an orange circle which might not

758
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:04,280
 seem like a lot but obviously it's 4400 acres.

759
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,840
 Where does council fall on that and where does city legal fall on at least the takings

760
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:14,640
 force and are we allowed to remove their ability to use their property?

761
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,480
 I will defer to Gary on that one.

762
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:25,360
 Well, you know, your question about economic impact really applies to all zoning regulations

763
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,160
 if you think about it.

764
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:37,440
 Anytime we impose any kind of a zoning regulation, it has to be supported by our goals of the

765
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:45,720
 health and welfare of the community in general and that's established by statute and so the

766
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:55,040
 justification for doing that I guess is the studies that indicate at least some connection

767
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:00,960
 between the activities and some negative health impacts.

768
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:07,960
 Now, as we all know, you know, pollutants don't just stop and turn around and go home

769
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:15,920
 after a certain distance, you know, you have to set something as a standard, the laws go

770
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:22,680
 to demand that we establish a bright line as to what's legal and what's illegal at

771
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:29,880
 a certain point in time but the reality is it's going to be a gradient of some kind and

772
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:39,840
 I think that's part of, you know, what the concern is here with, you know, say for example

773
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,480
 with the legally nonconforming use debate that we had here.

774
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:50,820
 Yes, we have the fairness concerns on the one hand but on the other hand, if it's legitimately

775
01:02:50,820 --> 01:02:58,120
 a health concern, does that health concern go away or is that still a legitimate issue

776
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:06,480
 for regulation if we're looking out for the health and safety of our citizens and so there's

777
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:12,760
 certainly arguments on both sides, you know, neither I nor our department are trying to

778
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:19,880
 advocate for one side or the other, you know, we're trying to provide a support role for

779
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:28,920
 whatever the city feels is an appropriate regulation through this legislative process

780
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:33,520
 but I think that would be the justification, those are the concerns that we're looking

781
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:38,440
 at, it's a balancing of health and safety, you know, versus property rights.

782
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:39,880
 Is there an issue of takings?

783
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:47,600
 It could be, it depends on if it goes too far, Mr. Lansford I guess has a little bit

784
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:53,280
 better analysis than - Sorry, Trey Lansford, deputy city attorney.

785
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:59,280
 Regarding takings is that when enacting something like this, using our police power to promote

786
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,600
 the health, safety and welfare is that we have to have a rational basis to do so.

787
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,120
 So what we're looking at is a challenge in a situation such as this as to where do we

788
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,920
 set this line, where are we going to put the setback.

789
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:16,520
 City Council has directed staff at this moment to kind of base our decision upon the Fort

790
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,000
 Worth study that was done because we don't have one of our own but the Fort Worth study

791
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:24,400
 would support a line at 500 feet which is what's being proposed now.

792
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:33,000
 Now where we move that line, the risk of a taking claim is going to come to was it reasonable

793
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,000
 or not.

794
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:39,000
 Did you have a rational basis to take my property in exercising your police power to do so?

795
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:44,000
 I guess fundamentally I have a question because both attorneys have now stated that we need

796
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,340
 to set a line, there's a requirement that we set a line.

797
01:04:47,340 --> 01:04:48,720
 We have a line.

798
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,560
 So I don't - it doesn't seem like we need to set a line.

799
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:58,820
 The question is we are moving a line and where are we moving it to and my I guess prevailing

800
01:04:58,820 --> 01:05:02,400
 question is why are we moving the line?

801
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,760
 And I think anecdotally we could come up with a lot of different ideas.

802
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:12,200
 There's a Fort Worth study, there's anecdotes of health concerns but there's - why did this

803
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,080
 come back up to city council?

804
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:19,800
 Does anyone have that answer of like the origination of this actually becoming an issue again?

805
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,880
 Because it seems like in 2015 it was density on the south side of town was like well we

806
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:27,080
 need to control this in 2015.

807
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,880
 Is this all about coal ranch, hunter ranch that this is now being brought up again or

808
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,560
 what's the precipice?

809
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:39,440
 This started last year, there had been a request by a couple council members wanting to revisit

810
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:43,280
 the reverse setback issue - or setbacks and reverse setbacks.

811
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:48,720
 They had a work session over at PD during one of their Monday luncheons and there were

812
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:54,200
 only six there and I can't remember who was absent and so they split as to whether or

813
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,800
 not they wanted to go forward and propose any amendments.

814
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:04,200
 After that sometime in the late spring before council member Duff came off the board and

815
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:11,520
 was replaced by Jesse Davis, the council discussed this again and there was a consensus to move

816
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,520
 forward to have the discussion.

817
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:17,640
 And so that's how this came to - and during that discussion as Haley presented earlier

818
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:21,000
 the dates, the council came and asked a lot of questions.

819
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,560
 We gave a very detailed presentation including the takings claim and they felt comfortable

820
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:32,240
 with following the Fort Worth study and the Fort Worth and their ordinance has been seen

821
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:36,080
 as a model for the other communities to have, they have a very great relationship with the

822
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:41,360
 gas well industry as well as trying to protect their citizens and so that study - and I can't

823
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,200
 speak for Dr. Banks who talked about that study but what I do recall is one that would

824
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:50,580
 be something more generally acceptable in the community.

825
01:06:50,580 --> 01:06:53,440
 We know that there are studies - I'm familiar with all the studies that the industry puts

826
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,640
 out as well as the environmental groups put out.

827
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:03,640
 They are - they're directly opposite of each other and so with the takings claims and where

828
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:08,680
 we set this, we need to have something out there that's kind of closer to support why

829
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:09,680
 we're doing this.

830
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:15,200
 If it is the decision of this PNC to go forward and recommend to council to have the 500 foot

831
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:21,000
 setback, then we'll proceed or your recommendation could be nothing.

832
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,120
 This is why it's here before you and you're going to have those discussions.

833
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:31,960
 And so that's why the Fort Worth is more or less looked as a good model in the state and

834
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,840
 that's why we chose to do that.

835
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,360
 It weighed in air quality and tried to come up with a good distance.

836
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:42,120
 There's, as Haley explained, 600 foot from the gas well, ours is 500 because there's

837
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:49,600
 usually in a 300 by 300 foot, you're going to have 100 feet extra room inside.

838
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,120
 So that's how this all came to you.

839
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:58,280
 And so in any kind of takings claim, we're going to have to rely on something, some type

840
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,720
 of scientific evidence because that study is air quality.

841
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,520
 So we're going to have to rely on scientific evidence, which is the Fort Worth study to

842
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:09,760
 support our decision in a takings claim.

843
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:16,480
 We could win, but even though we win, we could still end up paying and so that's the - and

844
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:23,480
 I know Drake is our condemnation attorney, he can go into in-depth and talk to you until

845
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:30,240
 the rooster starts crowing in the morning, but that's more or less how we got here, how

846
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:35,200
 the council came to this, why we're using the Fort Worth study as a basis to support

847
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:39,760
 our amendment, assuming that is what you recommend and that's now what's before and I'm hoping

848
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,600
 that helps clarify some things for you about this whole process.

849
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:46,760
 It's definitely part of the context to me, so thank you.

850
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,760
 Commissioner Burnett, I know you're next.

851
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:50,760
 Yeah.

852
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:51,760
 So a few thoughts on this.

853
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:56,360
 Ideally, I think my problem has always been not as much the reverse setbacks as the setbacks

854
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:57,360
 now.

855
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,760
 Unfortunately, we already have what we have.

856
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:06,880
 I 100% support increasing reverse setbacks because I think we need to kind of limit the

857
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:12,880
 amount - the proximity new developments have to Wells, especially when as we get further

858
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,160
 along, we're going to have situations like we had with that developmental Windsor that

859
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,360
 was right up against - right up against the setbacks.

860
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:28,240
 The problem that I have on this is, you know, the whole thing about preventing new non-conformities.

861
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:33,200
 We kind of fall back on this thing like what happens if somebody's house burns down.

862
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:42,240
 Now, we know that in reality, you know, we have just a couple of thousand properties

863
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,440
 that might be subjected to that.

864
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:49,520
 There's no way that a couple of thousand houses are all going to burn down and only be one

865
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:50,520
 or two.

866
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:57,920
 I just - I have a problem with the intransigence of saying we can't allow that person to go

867
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:04,320
 before ZBA or something to rebuild their existing house, especially if they - if that is a choice

868
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:10,880
 that they're making that that house already exists close to, you know, a well.

869
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,800
 I 100% support, you know, extending the setbacks.

870
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:23,240
 I just have a problem on taking somebody's house, you know, that they've lived in forever.

871
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:29,440
 And I would hope that, you know, we could possibly revisit that, you know, in this regulation

872
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:33,920
 because I think that'd make a huge difference in terms of, you know, people supporting the

873
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,640
 extension of those setbacks.

874
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,840
 And we can certainly take a look at that with the planning staff.

875
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:44,640
 I know that there's some provisions out there that may get to where you want to be, however,

876
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,520
 but it would apply throughout the city.

877
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:53,520
 I think the legal interest we have is that it's applied uniformly to all nonconforming

878
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,280
 uses and structures, not just a certain segment and start creating special classes.

879
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,360
 So we'll work with the planning staff, and I think we do have a solution or something

880
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:07,880
 to address that that we can propose, so - and hopefully we can come back during the - on

881
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:08,880
 November 6th.

882
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,480
 I don't know if there's a work session schedule, and maybe we can propose something like that.

883
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:13,480
 Okay.

884
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:14,480
 Commissioner Stewart.

885
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:15,480
 Thank you, Chair.

886
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:21,360
 I don't know if we're able to bring back at least a study on what the claims process would

887
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,760
 be like and then what the costs would be, just if we put this in a presentation and

888
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:29,520
 say that, you know, if we have a taking claim, then how much could that cost the city if

889
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:30,520
 we do this?

890
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:31,520
 Just an estimation of that.

891
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,840
 Any type of research you have on that, that would be appreciated.

892
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:34,840
 Well, I mean, the -

893
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:36,880
 We don't have to get into it now, just for the sake of time.

894
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:37,880
 Right.

895
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,680
 Well, just the property values, we're going to be - I mean, that's going to be expert

896
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:43,960
 testimony based on the time of the take and everything, that they're going to have an

897
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:45,200
 appraiser, we're going to have an appraiser.

898
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,040
 I honestly couldn't give you an approximation of what that would be.

899
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,280
 I can tell you, if it's something that's going to go all the way to trial, you're looking

900
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,480
 at easily six digits worth of attorney's fees.

901
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:58,080
 At least being able to put some slide in there talking about addressing the taking claims

902
01:11:58,080 --> 01:11:59,080
 would be appreciated.

903
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:01,360
 Maybe not hard numbers, but something -

904
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:02,360
 Are you talking about litigation?

905
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:07,920
 Are you talking about asking for a variance before ZBA, the appropriate application fees,

906
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:10,480
 or are you talking about those kinds of costs?

907
01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:11,480
 No, yeah.

908
01:12:11,480 --> 01:12:14,880
 I'm talking about variance, and the variance is denied, then go into a taking claim at

909
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:15,880
 that point in time.

910
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:16,880
 What is that process?

911
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,720
 Giving us some sort of feedback, okay, if there is a property owner who's upset that

912
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,800
 the setback has now increased to 250 feet from where it was before, and then that's

913
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,000
 - they come and make a claim that you're taking my land, be able to talk to that process of

914
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:35,800
 what that looks like from a city legal standpoint, and how that could affect us as a city from

915
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:36,800
 having to defend ourselves.

916
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:37,800
 That's all I ask.

917
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:38,800
 So, thanks.

918
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:39,800
 Chris, you're back.

919
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:46,980
 So, I have a question sort of similar, and that is, what's our exposure if we are aware

920
01:12:46,980 --> 01:12:55,520
 or suspect that there are risks, and we purposely keep our setbacks smaller than those?

921
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:59,120
 And are we exposed to any legal liability?

922
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,960
 So we have this legal liability of takings.

923
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:09,840
 Are we exposed to legal liability if we choose to do nothing, and when we're aware of - even

924
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,800
 if there are some variations in studies?

925
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:14,600
 And I'm not sure -

926
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,720
 Yeah, and I don't know if you want to step in.

927
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:26,000
 I think my only point that I would want to make is there's the potential that exists

928
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:33,120
 for any zoning regulation, of it being too much, and so there's the potential for that

929
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:39,800
 going forward, and so this is one particular - this is probably one that's a little bit

930
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:49,680
 more intensive than, say, for example, a zoning use classification, but do you have any other

931
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:50,960
 thoughts on that?

932
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:51,960
 I think he's good.

933
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:52,960
 I think his question is different.

934
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,200
 Yeah, my question is different than that.

935
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:58,480
 My question is, if we're aware - I'm going to make a hypothetical.

936
01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:05,480
 If we're aware that Denton is sitting on a nuclear waste dump and we do nothing, then

937
01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:12,080
 what is our liability as a city if we allow flats to be built and homes to be built near

938
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:19,720
 a hazard - do we expose ourselves to liability?

939
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:24,800
 Going back, I could answer the first question you had - at 250, and same thing with the

940
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,160
 gas well setbacks, we're already in that position of a takings claim.

941
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:37,240
 With the reverse setbacks, at 250, our experience has been since 2010, and more so after 2015,

942
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:41,440
 that developers have come in and have accepted that 250 and have developed around it and

943
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:49,240
 designed their developments to comply, so it could be that that's an acceptable level

944
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:53,560
 for the development community and for the city, because we haven't had any claims brought

945
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,760
 to us on the 250 foot setback.

946
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,520
 I can't tell you what it will be in the 500, maybe it'll be the same, maybe not.

947
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:07,320
 It all boils down to what risk level is acceptable for this body to recommend and the City Council

948
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:08,640
 to accept.

949
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:09,920
 That's what it boils down to.

950
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:17,220
 What is the level of risk you're willing to incur, and as Trey said, the higher the setback,

951
01:15:17,220 --> 01:15:22,360
 the increase in risk - that's all, and I'm trying to sum it up as probably as succinct

952
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:23,360
 as I can.

953
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:29,760
 And there are risks on both sides, you know, and even bringing the case, if you're a property

954
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:34,240
 owner, there's a risk that you could lose and be out a lot of money because of that,

955
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,560
 and still wind up with no relief.

956
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:41,320
 So I'm going to go ahead and interject, just for the sake of time, and knowing we're going

957
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:44,080
 to have a work session on this in a couple of weeks, Commissioner Pernod, one more question

958
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:45,080
 in order to move on.

959
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:50,320
 And I just wanted to clarify, I believe Commissioner Beck's question was actually different.

960
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:57,600
 What I heard him asking was, say we do nothing and leave everything at 250, and 10,000 kids

961
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:02,320
 within, you know, that are less than 500 feet away get cancer.

962
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:09,160
 If we didn't do anything, is the City at some point liable or, you know, for negligence

963
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,360
 in not moving to that?

964
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:12,560
 That sounded like the question you asked me.

965
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:13,560
 That's my question.

966
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:14,560
 Okay.

967
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:20,520
 Now, I don't know that we would be, because I would think that that would be some other

968
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:28,760
 suit, but the question is, if we don't take a basic measure to at least add a little bit

969
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:34,200
 of extra safety, are we negligent by leaving things as they are?

970
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:39,740
 You know, when people ask me these hypotheticals, I usually, my first response is, anybody can

971
01:16:39,740 --> 01:16:41,740
 file a lawsuit.

972
01:16:41,740 --> 01:16:47,200
 In this kind of a case, in which you presented, like if children get sick, get some kind of

973
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:51,360
 cancer or something like that, and they file the lawsuit against the City because they

974
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:56,360
 claim that they didn't protect us, there's going to be, it's going to be a battle of

975
01:16:56,360 --> 01:17:05,520
 experts as to whether or not the cancer that they sustained was approximately caused or

976
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:13,320
 directly caused by the gas wells that are operating and was this, and then in addition

977
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:18,520
 to that would be, you know, what was the normal, what's a good distance, and so that boils

978
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:23,960
 down to, you're going to have a lot of experts in that lawsuit, and it will ultimately depend

979
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:31,520
 on what a jury decides, and so it's not an easy answer to ask, but it is not an easy

980
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:32,520
 case.

981
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:38,520
 I can tell you, like if you go back to, I know from the '90s and watching movies, Civil

982
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:43,120
 Suit, I think, which is John Travolta, it's going to be something that intense where there's

983
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:48,160
 going to be a lot of expert testimony and scientific evidence to demonstrate the plaintiffs

984
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:54,440
 will have to come forward and demonstrate that it was caused by this activity, and then

985
01:17:54,440 --> 01:18:00,520
 after then, next show that the City was negligent in trying to address and stop that, so it

986
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:04,280
 is a complex litigation, is what I'm trying to say.

987
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:08,200
 The outcome will depend on the evidence and what the jury decides.

988
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:15,240
 And I think part of the question was presuming that that sort of standard or causal relationship

989
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:25,040
 exists, like with the nuclear area, for example, that there's a definite harm that will result

990
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:30,960
 that gets ignored deliberately, and that's really a different standard, and that speaks

991
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:36,960
 to what Mr. Lansford was talking about earlier, do we have a reasonable basis for our regulations

992
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:43,400
 that we put into place, or our failure to impose regulations, and we base that upon

993
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:45,240
 the knowledge that we have at this time.

994
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:49,440
 I don't think that there's any court that's going to impose a crystal ball requirement

995
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:56,800
 upon the City to know something that's unknown.

996
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:57,800
 Great discussion.

997
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:03,720
 I think it will be a lively one and helpful one on November 6th at that time.

998
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:09,200
 For the sake of what I imagine many people expecting a meeting to start at 6.30 in chambers,

999
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:14,000
 what I'd like to propose is we break for a brief dinner.

1000
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,040
 We finish dinner while listening to a presentation by Christie to finish up our work session

1001
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:24,700
 reports 1C, and if there is no opposition, the Chair moves that we take the agenda out

1002
01:19:24,700 --> 01:19:32,520
 of order after the work session items and move item F, which is the Brush Creek Apartments,

1003
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,200
 to the top and hold presentation on that.

1004
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:38,000
 As time permits, hear the other ones in work session.

1005
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,480
 If time doesn't permit, we'll listen to the other items in public session at that time

1006
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:46,760
 so we can try to hit a 6.30 hit for the council chambers.

1007
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,000
 Is there any issue with that for anyone?

1008
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:50,000
 Okay, perfect.

1009
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:54,360
 So at this time, I'd like to break for five minutes to gather a quick meal and come back.

1010
01:19:54,360 --> 01:20:00,120
 It is 5.55.

1011
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:01,120
 Thank you.

1012
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:02,120
 We are back.

1013
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,560
 Open the meeting back up at 6.04 and invite Christie for presentation on environmentally

1014
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,960
 sensitive areas.

1015
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:09,160
 Thank you.

1016
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:15,080
 And Christie Upton, Environmental Compliance Coordinator, and I wanted to tell you I am

1017
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:19,900
 really happy to be here tonight to share with you this criteria manual.

1018
01:20:19,900 --> 01:20:27,760
 We've been working on it for over a year, and I'm excited to reach the culmination and

1019
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:32,200
 take it to adoption.

1020
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:38,040
 So for starters, we wanted to let you know that the City adopted a set of regulations

1021
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:43,920
 to protect and preserve the environmentally sensitive areas, and we've identified this

1022
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:52,920
 as a pragmatic way to protect the City's water infrastructure and provide for green infrastructure.

1023
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:59,360
 And the green infrastructure is a long-term strategy to protect the City's assets and

1024
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:03,160
 support clean water.

1025
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:17,080
 In 2018, the City Council adopted updates to the ESA ordinance, and with the updates

1026
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:23,520
 to the ordinance, they directed staff to develop a criteria manual.

1027
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:34,440
 Staff identified objectives that would support our goal of providing better understanding

1028
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:39,420
 and the processes by which the regulations are applied.

1029
01:21:39,420 --> 01:21:43,640
 The criteria manual is a little different than the other criteria manuals because we

1030
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:55,320
 do include a lot of information that provides the reader with better knowledge of the ecological

1031
01:21:55,320 --> 01:22:04,080
 -- the ecology that the ESA regulations are based in.

1032
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:12,160
 To start the document, we considered the audience, which the criteria manual would be reaching,

1033
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:18,240
 and we identified two different groups, both residents and property owners, who we aim

1034
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:26,880
 to provide an explanation of what the ESAs are, how those property owners could benefit

1035
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:34,520
 from the ESAs that are within that property, and how they can maintain those ESAs and the

1036
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:38,040
 benefits that the ESAs offer.

1037
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:43,840
 And the other group that we identified was the development community, which we designed

1038
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:50,820
 the criteria manual to provide this group with guidance on how to develop the property

1039
01:22:50,820 --> 01:23:00,160
 from conception of that development to completion.

1040
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:08,120
 So we tried to go in chronology and how we developed this criteria manual, the first section

1041
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:17,120
 was dedicated to explaining why the City of Denton chose to protect these ESAs, and then

1042
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:23,720
 we highlighted some of those ways that the ESAs provide ecological services, including

1043
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:32,840
 how the vegetation can stabilize the drainage ways, natural areas are also known to uptake

1044
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:40,040
 and neutralize pollutants, and how that can reduce those pollutants from entering into

1045
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:46,720
 a drinking water supply, and natural areas serve as a resource for the community by providing

1046
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:53,760
 monetary benefits and promoting community health and wellness.

1047
01:23:53,760 --> 01:24:02,080
 There are four distinct ESAs that Denton Development Code identifies, and in this section we provide

1048
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:09,920
 a more detailed description of the characteristics and list examples of those ESAs, and we discussed

1049
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:17,280
 the general protection requirements for each one of those types, and where we identified

1050
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:23,640
 needed more specific information to be provided on those protection requirements, we tried

1051
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:29,000
 to go into some more of those details.

1052
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:36,360
 After that, we created a section on how to identify the ESA on private property.

1053
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:44,800
 When a development applicant comes in and they're looking at what criteria they would

1054
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:50,560
 need to consider when they're taking that project forward, one of those things is that

1055
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,720
 we guide them to identify ESAs.

1056
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,840
 We have the official ESA map and we guide them to that.

1057
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:05,320
 Where we have ESAs identified on their property, the next step is to proceed with an ESA field

1058
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:06,620
 assessment.

1059
01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:15,400
 Those ESA field assessments help to either confirm or sometimes we identify that the

1060
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:27,800
 map is incorrect and that we can move forward with removing that from the map.

1061
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:33,400
 The next step is where those ESAs are identified on private property, and the development applicant

1062
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:38,400
 needs to consider how to comply with the regulations.

1063
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:48,000
 This section speaks to the protection requirements and what the developer would need to consider.

1064
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:55,840
 This section also provides guidance on how to develop the site that encompasses the ESAs

1065
01:25:55,840 --> 01:26:01,200
 in a way that protects those ESAs during the construction, and the guidance was written

1066
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:08,840
 in a manner to highlight elements that are commonly encountered, and we also wanted to

1067
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,760
 emphasize that each site is different.

1068
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:17,040
 There's different elements to consider, and not all elements that are written in this

1069
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:22,800
 guidance would apply to every site.

1070
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:31,920
 Where the development community cannot conform to some aspect of the development code, the

1071
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:39,440
 developer must request for flexibility allowed in the DDC by applying for what's called

1072
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:42,160
 an alternative ESA plan.

1073
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:50,280
 This section was written as guidance on how to create a meaningful, incomprehensible alternative

1074
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:55,920
 ESA plan, and we focused on what would be pertinent information, how the applicant could

1075
01:26:55,920 --> 01:27:04,880
 find data that would allow the applicant to create comparable information, what was the

1076
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:12,120
 ecological services that was provided that the development applicant would be removing,

1077
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:18,200
 and how that could be incorporated into the mitigation, and then how the mitigation could

1078
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:22,440
 be implemented and completed.

1079
01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:32,480
 In the final section, we wanted to recognize that any natural area within or abutting a

1080
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:39,960
 urbanized area is likely going to need some human intervention at some point, and over

1081
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:50,800
 the years we have received requests and guidance on maintenance, and we tried to summarize

1082
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:58,320
 the guidance that we have provided in the past in this section.

1083
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:07,240
 Moving forward, we have already presented on this criteria manual a few times, and we

1084
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:14,400
 are going to be presenting this information again a couple of times in the next month

1085
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:19,440
 coming up, and we have published the criteria manual online.

1086
01:28:19,440 --> 01:28:23,440
 We have not received any written comments back as of yet.

1087
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:31,920
 We will be leaving that document up until a little before the December 3rd public hearing

1088
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:47,960
 and adoption of the ordinance to adopt the criteria manual, and lastly, we have identified

1089
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:50,480
 some future considerations.

1090
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:59,560
 You may know that the criteria manuals will be revised on an annual basis, and in future

1091
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:06,360
 revisions, we would like to add an SLP on field assessments.

1092
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:14,720
 It would provide both explanation on how these forms are filled out, but also would help

1093
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:21,200
 understand what the ESA field assessment is trying to explain.

1094
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:26,040
 And then the other one would be a property owner's guide, which would focus on the vegetation,

1095
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:32,960
 the native vegetation that could be supporting a habitat within the particular ESAs.

1096
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:33,960
 Questions?

1097
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:34,960
 Any questions?

1098
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:35,960
 Commissioner Beck.

1099
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:47,720
 So, you said you had no feedback on our websites or your websites, and none of the professional

1100
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,520
 societies have provided any feedback either?

1101
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:51,520
 None of yet.

1102
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:52,520
 Any other questions?

1103
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:56,680
 Thank you very much, Christy.

1104
01:29:56,680 --> 01:30:05,800
 As we move into the actual agenda for this evening, is there any updates or edits to

1105
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,440
 the minutes on October 2nd?

1106
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:14,840
 And then is there any initial issues with the proposed calendar for 2020?

1107
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:22,040
 Looks like it's first and third week meetings all next year.

1108
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:26,080
 Just in your backup, I legislate.

1109
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:30,880
 If there is, we will consider and vote on that in chambers.

1110
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:32,560
 So with that, we're going to move into the public hearings.

1111
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:39,880
 Like I mentioned earlier, we're going to go out of order and go to item 5F, which is Z18-0013C.

1112
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:45,400
 I'll invite Cindy Jackson for presentation, and then as time permits, we'll listen to

1113
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:47,080
 other items in work session.

1114
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,960
 If time does not permit, we will listen to those items in public hearing.

1115
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:54,720
 With that, I'll turn it over to Ms. Jackson.

1116
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:56,320
 Thank you.

1117
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:59,560
 I'm just waiting.

1118
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:14,440
 It wants to save it.

1119
01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:22,480
 Okay.

1120
01:31:22,480 --> 01:31:31,440
 Okay, Z18-0013, Brush Creek Apartments, is a request to rezone 6.71 acres of land from

1121
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:40,280
 rural residential to mixed use neighborhood MN, and to rezone 11.359 acres of land from

1122
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,560
 residential one, R1, to mixed use neighborhood MN.

1123
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:52,480
 That 18.069 acre site is located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Brush Creek,

1124
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:59,360
 which is right here, and US 377 Fort Worth Drive.

1125
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:06,840
 Here you can see the current zoning map, which shows the R1 and the RR designations as proposed.

1126
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:11,320
 This is what the zoning map would look like if this were approved.

1127
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:22,480
 As you can see, it's following a trend of MN zoning districts along the US 377 corridor.

1128
01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:25,560
 A concept plan was included in your backup.

1129
01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:28,920
 I want to note that this is a conceptual concept plan.

1130
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:31,080
 The site has not been designed yet.

1131
01:32:31,080 --> 01:32:37,120
 The purpose of this concept plan was for the traffic impact analysis to present worst case

1132
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:43,120
 scenarios for the purpose of traffic generation.

1133
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:50,680
 As you can see, we've got multifamily per this concept plan along this portion of it,

1134
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:57,880
 and then at the hard corner of Brush Creek and 377 are proposed commercial areas.

1135
01:32:57,880 --> 01:33:04,080
 We have seven criteria for zoning approval, which I'll go into in more detail.

1136
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:12,720
 The first criteria is neighborhood is that the requested zoning designation complies with

1137
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:17,520
 the future land use designation of neighborhood mixed use.

1138
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:24,120
 The locations with this designation, a diverse mix of housing types and densities may be

1139
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:26,320
 accommodated.

1140
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:33,440
 Most of the types of commercial uses in this type of designation are convenience stores,

1141
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:40,320
 small restaurants, personal service facilities like dry cleaners and nail shops and things

1142
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:44,520
 like that, daycare centers and small offices.

1143
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:50,560
 Moderate to high density residential uses are also permitted in areas with this designation.

1144
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:59,080
 The building should be appropriate scale and intensity to complement the surrounding neighborhood.

1145
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:02,640
 Criteria two is that is consistent with relevant small area plans.

1146
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:07,880
 There is no small area plan in place for this site.

1147
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:12,400
 Criteria three is consistent with the purpose statement of the proposed zoning district.

1148
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:17,800
 The purpose statement of the MN zoning district is to provide compatibility between higher

1149
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:23,280
 intensity mixed use areas and adjacent residential and commercial areas.

1150
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:28,040
 The district is intended to contribute to a vibrant environment for pedestrians and

1151
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:32,560
 bicyclists and includes varying densities of residential uses, neighborhoods serving

1152
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:36,960
 retail, restaurants, commercial and office uses that are sensitive to the surrounding

1153
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:40,320
 built and natural context and scale and form.

1154
01:34:40,320 --> 01:34:48,000
 And note that's very similar to the goals of the future land use designation.

1155
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:54,040
 Criteria four is that there have been or will be significant changes in the area to warrant

1156
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:55,920
 a zoning change.

1157
01:34:55,920 --> 01:35:01,760
 Both US 377 and Brush Creek Road right now are unimproved two lane roads.

1158
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,960
 TexDOT has begun the process of widening US 377 to the south of this site.

1159
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:14,320
 I'm sure you've run into the traffic issues right now just south of the I-35 overpass

1160
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:18,320
 along Fort Worth Drive.

1161
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:24,080
 Once the full site length of 377 has been improved, the traffic on the roadway will

1162
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:27,080
 increase correspondingly.

1163
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:32,560
 Additionally, current zoning of the site is not concurrent with the future land use designation

1164
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:35,760
 of neighborhood mixed use.

1165
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:43,680
 The designation was part of our 2015 update to the future land use map and as you know

1166
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:50,080
 just very recently within the past month our new zoning code went into effect.

1167
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:58,840
 When we transitioned the zoning, we transitioned to the closest zoning to what is already there.

1168
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:05,900
 So while the current zoning is not concurrent with the future land use designation of the

1169
01:36:05,900 --> 01:36:13,620
 site, if this zoning is approved it will then be concurrent.

1170
01:36:13,620 --> 01:36:17,880
 The intensity of new development permitted by the required zoning district is not expected

1171
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:25,240
 to create significantly adverse impacts to surrounding areas.

1172
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:30,720
 Impacts to the surrounding road network are anticipated as a result of this development.

1173
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:35,560
 However, requirements such as perimeter street improvements and impact fees coupled with

1174
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:43,520
 capital improvements on Brush Creek and the widening of US 377 Fort Worth Drive will offset

1175
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:45,920
 the traffic generation.

1176
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:51,960
 The applicant completed a traffic impact analysis or TIA pursuit to this rezoning request.

1177
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:57,640
 The TIA makes the following recommendation, pending the timeframe for the proposed widening

1178
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:07,240
 of 377 it is recommended that the southbound turn lanes be installed on US 377.

1179
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:17,680
 So southbound turn lanes at this intersection and at driveway number 4 which is located

1180
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:19,800
 right here.

1181
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:25,680
 So coming this way we would have a turn lane here and a turn lane here.

1182
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:31,760
 The southbound left turn bays at the respective intersection should be constructed in coordination

1183
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,240
 upon completion of the development.

1184
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:39,800
 Any additional improvements such as traffic signals and the widening of the road would

1185
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:43,620
 be completed with the improvement of 377.

1186
01:37:43,620 --> 01:37:49,620
 And Cindy, do we have a timeline on the improvement of 377 outside with the required and Brush

1187
01:37:49,620 --> 01:37:50,620
 Creek?

1188
01:37:50,620 --> 01:37:53,080
 We do not have a timeline for 377.

1189
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:57,000
 I do know that they are in the process of acquiring right of way right now.

1190
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:01,960
 I have heard from different property owners along 377.

1191
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:05,720
 And Brush Creek, I was told that is a ten year timeframe.

1192
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:06,720
 Okay.

1193
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:08,760
 Thank you.

1194
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:12,680
 Let's see.

1195
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:18,800
 Water and wastewater, public water is available to the site and wastewater will be extended

1196
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,320
 to the site from the east along Brush Creek.

1197
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:24,980
 There is capacity within the system to serve the proposal.

1198
01:38:24,980 --> 01:38:30,840
 With regards to parks, the subject property is located approximately 1,032.9 feet south

1199
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,680
 from the proposed park at the corner of Bonnie Bray and Allred Road.

1200
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:40,960
 This distance conforms to the park's goal of a ten minute walk to a park.

1201
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:43,160
 Schools.

1202
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:50,280
 There's been a lot of concern expressed about the impact this development may have on the

1203
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:55,920
 Argyle ISD.

1204
01:38:55,920 --> 01:39:00,640
 The district has indicated that a new elementary school as well as additions to the high school

1205
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:04,800
 are anticipated by 2022 or 2023.

1206
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:09,880
 We expect this timeline would coincide with the anticipated completion of phase one because

1207
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:13,680
 they have to go through many, this is just the first step of a very long process they

1208
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:17,440
 have to go through before they even start development of the site.

1209
01:39:17,440 --> 01:39:23,360
 So we anticipate by the time phase one is complete, the school should be complete as

1210
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:28,320
 well and be able to handle the students that are generated.

1211
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:32,440
 Cindy, we have a letter from the superintendent of Argyle ISD.

1212
01:39:32,440 --> 01:39:33,440
 Yes.

1213
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:35,880
 Was she aware of the timeline?

1214
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:39,520
 She seemed adamant about lack of capacity, but it seems like the city somehow has interpreted

1215
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:41,960
 that differently.

1216
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:50,120
 The city has, I requested from Argyle ISD the formulas they used to calculate student

1217
01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:53,560
 population for development and I did not receive them.

1218
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:58,360
 What we did when we got this letter was we kind of worked backwards to see what their

1219
01:39:58,360 --> 01:40:04,120
 calculations were and as I noted in my staff report, their calculations are quite a bit

1220
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:07,680
 larger than the calculations DISD uses.

1221
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:10,920
 So there's a discrepancy there.

1222
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:16,040
 I've been talking with the assistant to the superintendent, however, I haven't talked

1223
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:24,120
 to the superintendent herself, so I can't really give you a good answer to that question

1224
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:25,120
 otherwise.

1225
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:26,120
 Okay.

1226
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:27,120
 Thank you.

1227
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:34,360
 Fire station, the subject property is approximately 1.8 miles from fire station number seven and

1228
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:41,120
 that is within the eight minute or less response time boundary.

1229
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:45,400
 And there was no error in assigning the current zoning district.

1230
01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:50,080
 Public notification, now I've got several slides that are addressing public notification.

1231
01:40:50,080 --> 01:40:55,300
 This first slide shows the actual notification response within the 200 foot boundary.

1232
01:40:55,300 --> 01:41:01,800
 We received no responses in opposition within the 200 foot boundary which is within the

1233
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:03,800
 city.

1234
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:08,960
 You'll note that this site is on the edge of the ETJ.

1235
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:15,960
 We did receive responses from the ETJ, however, we did not include them on this map.

1236
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:23,040
 We received two responses in favor which you can see here and here and that comprises 10%

1237
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:26,080
 of the area within the 200 foot boundary.

1238
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:29,160
 The applicant did hold a neighborhood meeting.

1239
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:33,680
 I put the details of the neighborhood meeting into your backup.

1240
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:39,960
 There were quite a few concerns expressed about this particular project including the

1241
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:43,880
 appropriateness of the site for this location.

1242
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:53,260
 The density, the height of the buildings, traffic, schools, among others.

1243
01:41:53,260 --> 01:42:00,560
 Now this notification map shows the responses we have received within two miles of the subject

1244
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:09,400
 site, within two miles of the subject site we received in opposition 41 and you can see

1245
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:12,640
 in the red they're right here.

1246
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:22,680
 And in favor we received two which are the two that we already spoke about.

1247
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:34,320
 In the ETJ we also received two that are in support which you can see here and here.

1248
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:42,240
 And in the ETJ within two miles we received 15 against which you can see the purple.

1249
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:43,860
 >> And Cindy when was that last updated?

1250
01:42:43,860 --> 01:42:46,240
 We are still gathering opposition.

1251
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,240
 >> We are still gathering.

1252
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:52,360
 The map was last updated at 2 p.m. today.

1253
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,840
 I handed out two sets of responses to you.

1254
01:42:55,840 --> 01:43:01,680
 The first set of responses in the binder clip, the very thick one, is reflected on the map.

1255
01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:04,040
 It's not reflected in the staff report.

1256
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:10,520
 And then the very thin that I gave out to you is what I've received since 2 p.m.

1257
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:13,280
 >> And just to let the commission know, if you haven't checked the email, there's about

1258
01:43:13,280 --> 01:43:19,160
 12 more oppositions that have come in after 430.

1259
01:43:19,160 --> 01:43:23,080
 Those we have not obviously reviewed so anything coming after 430 is not going to be considered.

1260
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:24,080
 >> No.

1261
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:25,080
 >> These or those?

1262
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:28,440
 >> I checked my email and I'm still receiving them.

1263
01:43:28,440 --> 01:43:31,240
 They've been coming in as I've been at this meeting.

1264
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:35,680
 Those will be all calculated and put onto the map that goes to city council.

1265
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:36,680
 >> Commissioner Pernetta.

1266
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:37,680
 >> I just have a question.

1267
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:42,360
 So looking at this, it looks like there's maybe what half a dozen properties that are

1268
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:43,360
 within 200 feet.

1269
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:44,360
 Is that right?

1270
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:45,360
 >> Mm-hmm.

1271
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:46,360
 >> Okay.

1272
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:50,640
 And on those we had one or two that were in support, right?

1273
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:54,640
 >> Two in support representing 10% of the area within 200 feet.

1274
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:55,640
 >> Okay.

1275
01:43:55,640 --> 01:44:00,240
 And the ones that were in support, do we know if they have a financial interest in the property

1276
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:01,240
 that's--

1277
01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:02,240
 >> No, they don't.

1278
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:03,240
 >> Okay.

1279
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:04,240
 All right.

1280
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:05,240
 Thank you.

1281
01:44:05,240 --> 01:44:11,200
 >> Now, this is the overall responses that we received.

1282
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:18,800
 We received from within the city in opposition 42 as of 2 o'clock plus whatever I've given

1283
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:20,880
 out to you and what's in my email.

1284
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:27,800
 I've received two in favor, which you can see the subject's not right here.

1285
01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:30,720
 Two in favor are the two that are within 200 feet.

1286
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:38,160
 In the city of Denton, extraterritorial jurisdiction or ETJ, in opposition we have 15 and in favor

1287
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:40,320
 we have two.

1288
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:44,320
 And then in the city of Argyle, we have six in opposition.

1289
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:46,960
 The city of Flower Mound, we have one in opposition.

1290
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:51,000
 And the city of Crum, we have one in opposition.

1291
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:52,000
 >> Commissioner Smith.

1292
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:53,480
 >> Thank you, Chair.

1293
01:44:53,480 --> 01:44:59,960
 The ETJ oppositions, they don't count into the calculation for the super majority requirement?

1294
01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:00,960
 >> No.

1295
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:05,040
 The only things that count into the calculation for super majority requirement is in the 200

1296
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:06,040
 foot area.

1297
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:07,040
 >> Okay.

1298
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:11,040
 I know the properties that were in the ETJ that were in the 200 foot area, am I wrong

1299
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,040
 with that?

1300
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:13,680
 >> They do not count.

1301
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:20,160
 We are required by law to use only those that are on the certified tax rule and that would

1302
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:21,160
 be within the city.

1303
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:22,160
 >> Okay.

1304
01:45:22,160 --> 01:45:24,600
 But even though there are properties letting it within the 200, if they're not in the city,

1305
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:25,600
 they don't count.

1306
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:26,600
 >> That's right.

1307
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:27,600
 We have made note of them.

1308
01:45:27,600 --> 01:45:31,840
 But that's not counted in the opposition within 200 feet.

1309
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:32,840
 >> Okay.

1310
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:33,840
 Thanks.

1311
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:40,200
 >> Okay, staff recommendation is approval, is consistent with the goals and objectives

1312
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:45,640
 of the Denton plan and complies with the zoning criteria for approval as I just went through.

1313
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:46,640
 That concludes my presentation.

1314
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:47,640
 >> Commissioner Smith.

1315
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:50,640
 >> Thank you, Chair.

1316
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:54,480
 I have no questions for Cindy, but just something to bring up for the sake of time.

1317
01:45:54,480 --> 01:46:00,800
 We've done this before whenever we've had highly attended meetings for certain items.

1318
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:06,440
 Possibly because we do have another, I think we have what, item G, item H or so that we

1319
01:46:06,440 --> 01:46:07,440
 have on the agenda.

1320
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:10,760
 Is there a possibility for us to pull F and put it towards the end so we can get the other

1321
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:14,440
 items out of the way and use F at the very end just in case it does take a long time

1322
01:46:14,440 --> 01:46:15,440
 and we don't have?

1323
01:46:15,440 --> 01:46:16,440
 >> Yeah.

1324
01:46:16,440 --> 01:46:17,440
 So G and H are city reports.

1325
01:46:17,440 --> 01:46:18,440
 >> Okay.

1326
01:46:18,440 --> 01:46:20,960
 >> And so the only ones after this item will be city reports.

1327
01:46:20,960 --> 01:46:21,960
 >> Okay.

1328
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:25,800
 >> Before that, it's four final replats that would have been on consent if it was any other

1329
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:28,160
 approval process and then a short variance.

1330
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:29,160
 >> Okay.

1331
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:30,160
 Thanks.

1332
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:34,640
 Is there any other questions?

1333
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:40,220
 So I think it's worth noting for the commissioners as well as the new commissioners, maybe particularly,

1334
01:46:40,220 --> 01:46:45,280
 they provided a concept map, but we are not looking at that concept map for the purpose

1335
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:46,280
 of this.

1336
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,280
 It's extraneous to the point of land use.

1337
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:55,800
 So just for the sake of questions in the public and our discussion internally, it's a rezone

1338
01:46:55,800 --> 01:47:00,680
 to MN with every possible land use within MN.

1339
01:47:00,680 --> 01:47:01,960
 They provided a concept plan.

1340
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:03,240
 They're not held to that.

1341
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:07,080
 So if we were to prove it, thinking those apartments look awesome, they're not held

1342
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:08,080
 to that.

1343
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:10,640
 They can put in the convenience store or dry cleaning, whatever else they wanted to put

1344
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:11,640
 in.

1345
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:17,640
 So for the sake of our review, our look is does all the land uses or any of the land

1346
01:47:17,640 --> 01:47:20,880
 uses within MN work for this property?

1347
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,680
 We're not specifically looking at apartments.

1348
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:26,380
 Sometimes we can get convoluted about the TIA, about the apartments, and everything

1349
01:47:26,380 --> 01:47:30,920
 about apartments, but it's not -- this item is not looking at apartments.

1350
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:34,960
 It's looking at the land use within MN, specifically on the rezone.

1351
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:39,040
 So hopefully we can tailor the discussion specifically to that and not get in the weeds

1352
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:44,000
 about the developer, the apartments, or what they might promise to put there.

1353
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:48,160
 We're not binding that to this discussion.

1354
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:53,480
 Seeing no other questions on this item, I'm going to close the work session at 631.

1355
01:47:53,480 --> 01:47:58,720
 We'll reconvene in council chambers at 640, and we'll stick to the original agenda order

1356
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:00,440
 at 640 in council chambers.

1357
01:48:00,440 --> 01:48:12,880
 Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the planning and zoning public hearing for October 16th.

1358
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:13,880
 Appreciate the patience.

1359
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:17,760
 We'll get started, and I'll call this meeting to order at 647.

1360
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:22,800
 Seeing that we have a quorum, let the record show that Commissioner Ellis is absent this

1361
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:23,800
 evening.

1362
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:27,360
 The first item of business is to stand, if able, and I give the pledge of allegiance

1363
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:32,360
 to the U.S. and Texas flag.

1364
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:55,720
 I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for

1365
01:48:55,720 --> 01:49:00,180
 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

1366
01:49:00,180 --> 01:49:04,240
 The next item of business is to consider the minutes from October 2nd, 2019.

1367
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:05,240
 Commissioner Smith?

1368
01:49:05,240 --> 01:49:06,240
 Motion for approval.

1369
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:07,240
 Approval?

1370
01:49:07,240 --> 01:49:10,020
 Yeah, motion for approval.

1371
01:49:10,020 --> 01:49:12,040
 We have a first for approval, Commissioner Pernetta?

1372
01:49:12,040 --> 01:49:13,040
 Second the motion.

1373
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:16,400
 We have a first and a second for approval of the minutes.

1374
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:18,580
 Any discussion?

1375
01:49:18,580 --> 01:49:29,520
 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1376
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:32,520
 Motion carries 5-0 with one recuse.

1377
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:36,320
 The next item of business is the consent agenda.

1378
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:37,320
 Commissioner Smith?

1379
01:49:37,320 --> 01:49:38,320
 Motion for approval.

1380
01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:39,320
 We have a first for approval.

1381
01:49:39,320 --> 01:49:40,320
 Commissioner Pernetta?

1382
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:41,320
 Second the motion.

1383
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:44,360
 We have a first and a second for approval of the consent agenda.

1384
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:46,480
 Any discussion?

1385
01:49:46,480 --> 01:49:54,000
 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1386
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:56,800
 Motion carries 6-0.

1387
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,680
 The next item of business is items for individual consideration.

1388
01:49:59,680 --> 01:50:04,760
 We have one item for a consider approval for our calendar.

1389
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:06,420
 Commissioner Smith?

1390
01:50:06,420 --> 01:50:07,420
 Motion for approval.

1391
01:50:07,420 --> 01:50:08,420
 We have a first for approval.

1392
01:50:08,420 --> 01:50:09,420
 Commissioner Pernetta?

1393
01:50:09,420 --> 01:50:10,420
 Second.

1394
01:50:10,420 --> 01:50:11,600
 We have a first and a second for approval.

1395
01:50:11,600 --> 01:50:12,600
 Any discussion on the calendar?

1396
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,600
 All the dates look good.

1397
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:16,600
 Perfect.

1398
01:50:16,600 --> 01:50:24,440
 With that, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1399
01:50:24,440 --> 01:50:25,440
 Motion carries 6-0.

1400
01:50:25,440 --> 01:50:27,600
 That brings us to our public hearing items.

1401
01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:32,880
 The first item is 5A FR-19-18.

1402
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:37,040
 I will invite Julie Wyatt for presentation and open the public hearing.

1403
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:45,400
 Good evening, I'm Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner with the City of Denton.

1404
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:52,080
 I'm presenting to you a residential reef plot for two lots within the Old North Park Phase

1405
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:53,080
 2 subdivision.

1406
01:50:53,080 --> 01:50:57,040
 The lots in question are here with the hatching on it.

1407
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:01,560
 These lots were originally plotted in 2015 for a single family residential neighborhood.

1408
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:07,840
 In order to ensure adequate vehicular circulation and emergency access, a temporary access easement

1409
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:12,400
 was placed upon these lots at that time.

1410
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:18,200
 Since then, the entire neighborhood, all phases of the subdivision have been constructed.

1411
01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:21,360
 The streets are now punched through the way they were intended to.

1412
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:26,260
 There's adequate circulation and emergency vehicle access, and so they're removing that

1413
01:51:26,260 --> 01:51:28,240
 temporary access easement.

1414
01:51:28,240 --> 01:51:32,080
 That's why they're here tonight, is just to remove that temporary access easement to develop

1415
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:34,640
 the lots as they were intended with single family uses.

1416
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:37,640
 I'll stand for any questions.

1417
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:38,640
 Any questions?

1418
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:40,600
 I do not see any.

1419
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:41,600
 Thanks, Julie.

1420
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:44,400
 Thomas Fletcher is the applicant that is here.

1421
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:53,320
 Is Mr. Fletcher wanting to speak?

1422
01:51:53,320 --> 01:51:54,320
 Good evening, Commissioners.

1423
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:58,240
 Thomas Fletcher, 6160 Warren Parkway, Frisco, Texas.

1424
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:01,880
 Didn't really have anything to add, just wanted to be here in case there were any questions

1425
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:03,880
 that needed to be answered.

1426
01:52:03,880 --> 01:52:06,040
 I don't see any questions at this time.

1427
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:07,040
 Thank you.

1428
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:08,040
 This is a public hearing.

1429
01:52:08,040 --> 01:52:13,080
 Anyone wishing to speak on the item, they certainly do so.

1430
01:52:13,080 --> 01:52:14,080
 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing.

1431
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:15,080
 I turn to the dais for discussion on our motion.

1432
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:16,080
 Commissioner Pernetta?

1433
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:17,080
 Motion to approve.

1434
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:18,080
 We have a first for approval.

1435
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:19,080
 Commissioner Anderson?

1436
01:52:19,080 --> 01:52:20,080
 I second.

1437
01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:21,080
 Thanks.

1438
01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:22,080
 We have a first and a second for approval.

1439
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:23,080
 Any discussion?

1440
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:23,920
 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1441
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:24,920
 Motion carries 6-0.

1442
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:47,520
 The next item of business is item 5B, FR19-19.

1443
01:52:47,520 --> 01:53:09,040
 I'll invite Sean Jacobson for a presentation, and I will open the public hearing.

1444
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:28,640
 Good evening, Chair and members of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

1445
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:33,120
 My name is Sean Jacobson, assistant planner with the City of Denton.

1446
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:38,400
 Presenting tonight a request by Gordon Meredith of Denton Community Development on behalf

1447
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:43,440
 of Jimmie and Sandra Cross for approval of a final replat of lot 19R, block 6 of the

1448
01:53:43,440 --> 01:53:44,440
 College View addition.

1449
01:53:44,440 --> 01:53:51,960
 This would be a residential replat of lots 19 and 20 of block 6 of the College View edition.

1450
01:53:51,960 --> 01:53:58,200
 These are two existing lots, each .1744 acre, and they are proposed to be replatted to make

1451
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:03,520
 1.347 acre lot, with the purpose of building a new residence on that property.

1452
01:54:03,520 --> 01:54:07,960
 Light 19 is currently vacant, and lot 20 is developed with a house and a shed.

1453
01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:11,920
 Both lots are in the R-4 zoning district, which sets a minimum lot size of 7,000 square

1454
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:16,480
 feet, and the proposed replat would create a lot that would meet that minimum standard.

1455
01:54:16,480 --> 01:54:21,800
 It also meets all other requirements of the DDC, and therefore staff is recommending approval.

1456
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:27,920
 We did, because this is a replat of a residential property, we sent out notices both to 200

1457
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:31,800
 feet and to all those living in the current subdivision.

1458
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:36,200
 We received two responses in support, which I gave to you before the start of the meeting.

1459
01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:38,560
 This is from the property owner.

1460
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:41,280
 With that, we recommend approval, and I'll stand for any questions.

1461
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:42,280
 >> Thank you, Sean.

1462
01:54:42,280 --> 01:54:44,560
 I don't see any questions this time.

1463
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:45,560
 This is a public hearing.

1464
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:46,560
 Anyone wish to speak?

1465
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:47,560
 We certainly do so.

1466
01:54:47,560 --> 01:54:51,400
 I don't see any cards, but we do have two submissions for this item.

1467
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:53,080
 Both are in favor.

1468
01:54:53,080 --> 01:54:57,720
 One is Ken Frissy of Justin, Texas, and the other is Jimmy Cross of Denton.

1469
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:00,560
 That was the only feedback I've gotten on this item.

1470
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:04,720
 Is there anyone else wishing to speak on this replat?

1471
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:10,120
 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing.

1472
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:12,200
 Commissioner Smith.

1473
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:13,200
 >> Motion for approval.

1474
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:14,360
 >> We have a first for approval.

1475
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:15,360
 Commissioner Pernetta.

1476
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:16,360
 >> Second the motion.

1477
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:18,120
 >> We have a first and a second for approval.

1478
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:20,680
 Any discussion on the item?

1479
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:27,680
 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1480
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:28,680
 Motion carries 6-0.

1481
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:35,720
 Next item of business is item 5C, FR 19-24, and this is Sean's item again.

1482
01:55:35,720 --> 01:55:38,000
 I'll invite him for presentation and open the public hearing.

1483
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:12,040
 Good evening again, Chair and members of the commission.

1484
01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:17,280
 The request here is by John Cox of Eagle Surveying on behalf of Jim Heritage LP for approval

1485
01:56:17,280 --> 01:56:24,760
 of a replat of lot 1 block A of the Colorado addition to remove easements created by previous

1486
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:25,760
 platts.

1487
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:29,080
 This is an approximately 9.84 acre property currently undeveloped.

1488
01:56:29,080 --> 01:56:31,760
 It's in the LI zoning district.

1489
01:56:31,760 --> 01:56:36,720
 The replat would create lot 1 R block A, which would meet the 5,000 square foot minimum lot

1490
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:40,440
 size of the light industrial zoning district this lot is located in.

1491
01:56:40,440 --> 01:56:45,640
 It would meet all established requirements of the DDC and therefore staff is recommending

1492
01:56:45,640 --> 01:56:46,640
 approval.

1493
01:56:46,640 --> 01:57:00,760
 With that I'll stand for questions.

1494
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:01,760
 I do not see any questions.

1495
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:03,720
 Sorry, the screen is slow to load.

1496
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:04,720
 This is a public hearing.

1497
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:08,280
 Anyone wishing to speak may certainly do so.

1498
01:57:08,280 --> 01:57:10,560
 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and turn the dais for discussion.

1499
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:11,560
 Or motion.

1500
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:12,560
 Commissioner Smith.

1501
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:13,560
 Motion to approve.

1502
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:14,920
 We have a motion for approval.

1503
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:15,920
 Commissioner Pernetta.

1504
01:57:15,920 --> 01:57:16,920
 I second the motion.

1505
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:19,080
 We have a first and a second for approval.

1506
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:20,080
 Any discussion on the item?

1507
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:34,240
 Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

1508
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:35,240
 Motion carries 6-0.

1509
01:57:35,240 --> 01:57:40,200
 Next item of business is item 5D, FR 19-25.

1510
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:42,160
 This is Sean Jacobson again.

1511
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:46,120
 I'll invite you to present and I'll open the public hearing.

1512
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:49,760
 Good evening again, Chair and members of the commission.

1513
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:55,360
 This is a request by John Cox of EGLE Surveying again on behalf of GMLP for a replat of lot

1514
01:57:55,360 --> 01:58:00,040
 9BR-2 Block C, the Shady Oaks Industrial Edition.

1515
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:03,800
 The purpose of this replat is also to remove easements that were established by PLAT.

1516
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:08,320
 This is an approximately 4.61 acre property that is currently vacant.

1517
01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:12,780
 The lot that would be created, lot 9BR-2A, would meet the minimum lot size and other

1518
01:58:12,780 --> 01:58:14,960
 standards of the LI zoning district.

1519
01:58:14,960 --> 01:58:20,000
 And the proposed replat meets all of the requirements of the DDC, therefore staff is recommending

1520
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:21,000
 approval.

1521
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:22,000
 With that I'll stand for any questions.

1522
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:23,000
 I do not see any.

1523
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:24,000
 Thank you.

1524
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:25,000
 This is a public hearing.

1525
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:26,000
 Anyone wishing to speak may certainly do so.

1526
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:27,000
 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing.

1527
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:28,000
 Commissioner Smith.

1528
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:29,000
 Motion to approve.

1529
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:30,000
 Commissioner Cole.

1530
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:31,000
 Second.

1531
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:38,540
 We have a first and a second for approval, any discussion?

1532
01:58:38,540 --> 01:58:44,680
 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1533
01:58:44,680 --> 01:58:45,680
 Motion carries 6-0.

1534
01:58:45,680 --> 01:58:53,200
 The next item of business is item 5E, V19-2, I'll invite Julie Wyatt for presentation and

1535
01:58:53,200 --> 01:59:13,080
 open the public hearing.

1536
01:59:13,080 --> 01:59:14,080
 Okay.

1537
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:15,080
 Once again, I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton.

1538
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:20,080
 And I'm presenting V19-2, Haven at Dougherty.

1539
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:26,280
 The request is to hold a public hearing and consider an approval of a variance from the

1540
01:59:26,280 --> 01:59:31,360
 City of Denton's transportation design criteria manual, section 2.2.2.

1541
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:35,080
 The subject property is outlined here in yellow.

1542
01:59:35,080 --> 01:59:41,360
 It's located on the north side of East Dougherty Street, about 285 feet west of Johnson Street

1543
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:42,360
 right here.

1544
01:59:42,360 --> 01:59:48,200
 The requested variance is to permit a driveway that's 69 feet from an existing driveway

1545
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:53,120
 where typically a 100-foot separation would be required.

1546
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:54,220
 Just some background.

1547
01:59:54,220 --> 01:59:59,400
 This property and this development is being reviewed under the 2002 Denton Development

1548
01:59:59,400 --> 02:00:00,400
 Code.

1549
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:03,640
 There are some specific site characteristics to the parcel.

1550
02:00:03,640 --> 02:00:05,960
 It's a triangular parcel.

1551
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:10,300
 It has a railroad corridor that forms that western boundary.

1552
02:00:10,300 --> 02:00:14,400
 It has an existing self-service storage used to the east.

1553
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,360
 It's a small self-service storage facility, it's about 30 units.

1554
02:00:18,360 --> 02:00:20,280
 It's in an urban infill context.

1555
02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:22,400
 It's near Dallas Drive.

1556
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:26,920
 And East Dougherty is classified as a collector, not because of the mobility plan.

1557
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:31,520
 It's not one of those roadways that you see on that mobility plan map, but rather that's

1558
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:36,280
 due to the surrounding zoning and anticipated development in the area.

1559
02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:43,500
 The proposed development on the site, it's an 8.87-acre multifamily development.

1560
02:00:43,500 --> 02:00:50,480
 That's going to include 132 dwelling units, 466 parking spaces, and an amenity center.

1561
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:55,900
 As part of that, they are proposing three full-access driveways, one to the north on

1562
02:00:55,900 --> 02:01:03,200
 Collins Street, and then two to the south onto Dougherty, and then one exit-only driveway

1563
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:04,200
 on Dougherty.

1564
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:08,440
 And that's to ensure adequate emergency access.

1565
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:12,020
 So here is an exhibit that the applicant proposed.

1566
02:01:12,020 --> 02:01:15,520
 Here is an existing driveway for that self-service storage use.

1567
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:19,920
 It's located here, and that red arrow points to it.

1568
02:01:19,920 --> 02:01:25,640
 69 feet from that, they are proposing that full-access driveway here for the multifamily

1569
02:01:25,640 --> 02:01:27,280
 use.

1570
02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:28,280
 That will be gated.

1571
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:31,640
 It will be a controlled-access driveway.

1572
02:01:31,640 --> 02:01:32,820
 Here's their other driveway.

1573
02:01:32,820 --> 02:01:38,920
 There's a full-access driveway for visitor access, and then there's that proposed exit-only.

1574
02:01:38,920 --> 02:01:42,480
 Here's an aerial view of that.

1575
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:47,440
 If you can see, it's a little small, but there's that existing driveway for that self-service

1576
02:01:47,440 --> 02:01:49,240
 storage use.

1577
02:01:49,240 --> 02:01:55,400
 So the Criteria Manual outlines the criteria for approval for this type of variance.

1578
02:01:55,400 --> 02:02:01,040
 First, is it -- would it -- granting of the variance would not be detrimental to the public's

1579
02:02:01,040 --> 02:02:04,960
 safety, health, or welfare, or injurious to other property.

1580
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:12,200
 Second, for background, the minimum driveway separation is intended to provide for safety,

1581
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:17,580
 as well as to reduce vehicular conflicts that could arise during turning movements.

1582
02:02:17,580 --> 02:02:21,880
 Spacing requirements increase with roadway speeds, so think a residential neighborhood

1583
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:28,320
 would be a 10-foot spacing, whereas an arterial, a very large arterial, would be 200 feet spacing.

1584
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:31,440
 Collectors usually require 100 feet of spacing.

1585
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:37,640
 The requested 69 feet would not be injurious to other property, and our engineering department

1586
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:43,140
 has reviewed this and has determined it would not be injurious to other property or reduce

1587
02:02:43,140 --> 02:02:48,640
 the roadway function, particularly because the adjacent self-service storage use actually

1588
02:02:48,640 --> 02:02:52,360
 generates very few trips, about nine per day.

1589
02:02:52,360 --> 02:02:56,200
 And also, East Doherty is really a low-traffic street.

1590
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:59,720
 It really kind of only goes from Johnson Street to, I believe, Myrtle.

1591
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:03,880
 So it's a pretty limited street, low traffic.

1592
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:10,000
 The conditions upon which the request for a variance is based are unique to the property

1593
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:14,440
 for which the variance is sought and are not applicable generally to other property.

1594
02:03:14,440 --> 02:03:16,640
 This is a narrow, that triangular parcel.

1595
02:03:16,640 --> 02:03:22,120
 It's in a redeveloping area, so there's some existing development that could conflict with

1596
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:24,960
 the new development in the area.

1597
02:03:24,960 --> 02:03:29,000
 And that railroad corridor to the west really restricts the full access along the western

1598
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:33,220
 portion of the boundary, kind of restricts how they can develop the site.

1599
02:03:33,220 --> 02:03:37,520
 Because of the particular physical surrounding shape or topographical condition of the specific

1600
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:42,880
 property involved, a particular hardship of the owner would result as distinguished from

1601
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:47,360
 a mere inconvenience if the strict letter of the subdivision regulations is carried

1602
02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:48,360
 out.

1603
02:03:48,360 --> 02:03:52,360
 Once again, the building placement and those access points have to be determined due to

1604
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:56,400
 that railroad corridor and the restriction of that access in that area.

1605
02:03:56,400 --> 02:04:00,600
 That's why they're proposing it in the location that they are.

1606
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:05,440
 And the variance will not in any manner vary the provisions of Denton Plan 2030, the Denton

1607
02:04:05,440 --> 02:04:10,680
 Development Code, the Denton Mobility Plan, except that those documents may be amended

1608
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:13,320
 in the manner prescribed by law.

1609
02:04:13,320 --> 02:04:15,800
 This road is not one of the Mobility Plan roads.

1610
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:23,080
 It's not intended to vary from the provisions of the Denton Plan 2030 or that Mobility Plan.

1611
02:04:23,080 --> 02:04:28,280
 The reduction in the minimum drive approach separation would not modify the street classification

1612
02:04:28,280 --> 02:04:32,820
 of East Doherty or introduce new design standards that would be incompatible with the comprehensive

1613
02:04:32,820 --> 02:04:34,320
 plan.

1614
02:04:34,320 --> 02:04:38,400
 And finally, the special or peculiar conditions upon which the request is based did not result

1615
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:42,000
 from or were not created by the act or commission of the owner.

1616
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:46,460
 Once again, it really is created because of that railroad corridor and the site characteristics

1617
02:04:46,460 --> 02:04:49,140
 and narrowness of the site.

1618
02:04:49,140 --> 02:04:53,400
 So based upon the criteria for approval and staff's analysis, engineering has no objection

1619
02:04:53,400 --> 02:04:57,720
 to the proposed variance and staff recommends approval because it does meet the criteria

1620
02:04:57,720 --> 02:04:58,720
 for approval.

1621
02:04:58,720 --> 02:04:59,720
 I'll stand for any questions.

1622
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:00,720
 Thank you, Julie.

1623
02:05:00,720 --> 02:05:03,880
 I do not see any.

1624
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:04,880
 This is a public hearing.

1625
02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:08,600
 Anyone wishing to speak on this item may certainly do so.

1626
02:05:08,600 --> 02:05:14,160
 I do not have any cards, so seeing no movement in the crowd, I will close the public hearing.

1627
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:15,160
 Commissioner Pernetta.

1628
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:18,160
 Motion to approve.

1629
02:05:18,160 --> 02:05:19,520
 We have a motion for approval.

1630
02:05:19,520 --> 02:05:20,520
 Commissioner Cole.

1631
02:05:20,520 --> 02:05:21,520
 Second.

1632
02:05:21,520 --> 02:05:22,520
 We have a first and a second for approval.

1633
02:05:22,520 --> 02:05:23,520
 Any discussion?

1634
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:38,240
 Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

1635
02:05:38,240 --> 02:05:40,800
 Motion carries 6-0.

1636
02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:46,920
 Next item of business is item 5F, Z18-0013C.

1637
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:57,320
 I'll invite Cindy Jackson for presentation and open the public hearing.

1638
02:05:57,320 --> 02:06:13,760
 Thank you, Chairman, Commissioners.

1639
02:06:13,760 --> 02:06:17,160
 Cindy Jackson with the Development Services Department.

1640
02:06:17,160 --> 02:06:27,040
 I'm here to present to you zoning case Z18-0013, which is a request to rezone 6.71 acres from

1641
02:06:27,040 --> 02:06:34,200
 rural residential to mixed use neighborhood and to rezone approximately 11.359 acres of

1642
02:06:34,200 --> 02:06:41,760
 land from residential one to mixed use neighborhood.

1643
02:06:41,760 --> 02:06:50,180
 The 18.069 site is located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Brush Creek

1644
02:06:50,180 --> 02:06:54,640
 and Fort Worth Drive, US 377.

1645
02:06:54,640 --> 02:07:00,800
 Here you can see the current zoning map, and the site as it is currently zoned are R and

1646
02:07:00,800 --> 02:07:01,800
 R1.

1647
02:07:01,800 --> 02:07:06,120
 Should this be approved, this is what the zoning map would look like with MN, and you

1648
02:07:06,120 --> 02:07:16,500
 can see it is following a trend of MN along the 377 corridor.

1649
02:07:16,500 --> 02:07:23,400
 This is a concept plan that the applicant had created for the purposes of the traffic

1650
02:07:23,400 --> 02:07:27,600
 impact analysis.

1651
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:30,040
 This is conceptual only.

1652
02:07:30,040 --> 02:07:35,800
 This is not how the site is going to be developed, and I just put it here just to show you that

1653
02:07:35,800 --> 02:07:40,520
 the site can be developed as desired.

1654
02:07:40,520 --> 02:07:48,900
 We have seven zoning criteria for approval in section 2.7.2D.

1655
02:07:48,900 --> 02:07:55,280
 Criteria one is that the site must be compliant with the future land use designation of the

1656
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:56,680
 Denton Plan 2030.

1657
02:07:56,680 --> 02:08:00,880
 The land use designation is neighborhood mixed use.

1658
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:08,120
 The intent of a neighborhood mixed use is that it is suited primarily for single family

1659
02:08:08,120 --> 02:08:12,920
 development, but where neighborhoods serving retail and services are critical to achieving

1660
02:08:12,920 --> 02:08:19,320
 balanced neighborhoods, diverse mix of housing types, and densities may also be accommodated

1661
02:08:19,320 --> 02:08:24,460
 in these locations, provided that the buildings are of appropriate scale and intensity to

1662
02:08:24,460 --> 02:08:28,520
 complement the surrounding neighborhood.

1663
02:08:28,520 --> 02:08:32,680
 Criteria two is that the site be consistent with relevant small area plans.

1664
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:36,560
 There are no small area plans for this site.

1665
02:08:36,560 --> 02:08:41,400
 Criteria three is that it be consistent with the purpose statement of the proposed zoning

1666
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:42,400
 district.

1667
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:46,880
 The purpose statement of the MN district is to provide compatibility between high intensity

1668
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:50,960
 mixed use areas and adjacent residential areas.

1669
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:55,160
 The proposed rezoning is pursuant to the development of a mixed use development, which will include

1670
02:08:55,160 --> 02:09:00,280
 both multi-family and neighborhood serving commercial uses, and will serve as a transition

1671
02:09:00,280 --> 02:09:07,000
 between large lot residential and the 377 corridor.

1672
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:11,760
 Number four is there have been or will be significant changes in the area to warrant

1673
02:09:11,760 --> 02:09:14,200
 a zoning change.

1674
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:19,160
 Both US 377 and Brush Creek Road are unimproved two lane roads.

1675
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:24,920
 TxDOT has begun the process of widening US 377 to the south of this site.

1676
02:09:24,920 --> 02:09:30,200
 As the full length of seat 377 has been improved, the traffic on the roadway will correspondingly

1677
02:09:30,200 --> 02:09:31,200
 increase.

1678
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:35,120
 Additionally, the current zoning of the site is not concurrent with the future land use

1679
02:09:35,120 --> 02:09:40,240
 designation of neighborhood mixed use.

1680
02:09:40,240 --> 02:09:44,800
 Criteria five is the intensity of new development permitted by the requested zoning district

1681
02:09:44,800 --> 02:09:50,760
 is not expected to create significantly adverse impacts on the surrounding areas.

1682
02:09:50,760 --> 02:09:54,720
 Number one is streets.

1683
02:09:54,720 --> 02:10:06,620
 Both Brush Creek Road and US 377 are designated as primary arterials on the mobility plan.

1684
02:10:06,620 --> 02:10:12,400
 The TIA completed by the applicant recommends southbound turn lane, turn left turn base

1685
02:10:12,400 --> 02:10:19,840
 installed at the Brush Creek intersection and driveway four as shown on the concept plan.

1686
02:10:19,840 --> 02:10:24,640
 TxDOT took into account the future land use designation of the site.

1687
02:10:24,640 --> 02:10:30,640
 As it's designing US 377 the improvements, as such the road design anticipates the additional

1688
02:10:30,640 --> 02:10:35,880
 traffic generated by the proposed development on this site.

1689
02:10:35,880 --> 02:10:40,560
 Water and wastewater, public water service is available to the public.

1690
02:10:40,560 --> 02:10:46,280
 Public wastewater will be extended to the site from the east along Brush Creek.

1691
02:10:46,280 --> 02:10:50,920
 There is a capacity within the system to serve the proposal.

1692
02:10:50,920 --> 02:10:58,720
 Regarding parks, the subject property is located within 1032.9 feet approximately south from

1693
02:10:58,720 --> 02:11:02,200
 a proposed park at the corner of Bonnie Bray and Allred Road.

1694
02:11:02,200 --> 02:11:08,440
 This distance conforms to the park's goal of a 10-minute walk to a park.

1695
02:11:08,440 --> 02:11:16,200
 Schools, the proposed development is located within the attendance zone of the Argyle ISD.

1696
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:20,160
 The district has indicated that a new elementary school and additions to the high school are

1697
02:11:20,160 --> 02:11:23,820
 anticipated by 2022 or 2023.

1698
02:11:23,820 --> 02:11:30,200
 This timeline would coincide with the expected completion of phase one of the proposed development

1699
02:11:30,200 --> 02:11:34,880
 and as such should be able to, the new school and additions should be able to accommodate

1700
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:38,120
 the additional students from this site.

1701
02:11:38,120 --> 02:11:44,280
 Fire station, the subject property is approximately 1.8 miles from fire station number seven and

1702
02:11:44,280 --> 02:11:50,520
 within the eight minute or less response time boundary.

1703
02:11:50,520 --> 02:11:55,040
 Criteria six, there was an error in establishing the current zoning district.

1704
02:11:55,040 --> 02:11:59,460
 There was no error in establishing the current zoning district.

1705
02:11:59,460 --> 02:12:04,480
 I've got several slides to show you public notification.

1706
02:12:04,480 --> 02:12:12,840
 The first one just shows you within the 200 and 500 foot area, which is our notification

1707
02:12:12,840 --> 02:12:18,040
 area, responses within the 200 foot area, we've received two in favor, which you can

1708
02:12:18,040 --> 02:12:19,520
 see here and here.

1709
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:26,000
 We did receive responses from this area right here in opposition, however they are not located

1710
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:34,640
 within the city limits and are not counted on the response map for the 200 foot.

1711
02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:41,720
 This is because of the fact that we are limited by state regulation to send out notifications

1712
02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:50,820
 only to those people who are on the city tax roll and count those properties.

1713
02:12:50,820 --> 02:12:55,040
 People in the ETJ obviously are not on the city tax roll so they did not receive a notice

1714
02:12:55,040 --> 02:13:03,320
 and correspondingly their response does not count within the 200 foot response area.

1715
02:13:03,320 --> 02:13:09,920
 Second is public notice within two miles of the subject site and we have here in opposition

1716
02:13:09,920 --> 02:13:19,880
 from within the city, we've got 41 and you can see them all right in here, excuse me,

1717
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:23,940
 they're all right in here in the green, this is city limits, this is in green.

1718
02:13:23,940 --> 02:13:28,800
 We had two in favor, which I already discussed and none neutral.

1719
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:34,840
 From within the ETJ in opposition we had 15, which you can see in all purple and in favor

1720
02:13:34,840 --> 02:13:40,160
 we had two and neutral zero.

1721
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:45,520
 Now this is taking in all the responses received to this particular request.

1722
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:50,640
 From within the city in opposition we received 42 and in favor two.

1723
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:55,240
 Within the ETJ we received in opposition 15 and in favor two.

1724
02:13:55,240 --> 02:14:05,520
 Let's see, this I deleted but it didn't show up.

1725
02:14:05,520 --> 02:14:10,680
 All responses received from other cities, we've received six in opposition and none

1726
02:14:10,680 --> 02:14:12,660
 in favor or neutral.

1727
02:14:12,660 --> 02:14:17,280
 From the city of Flower Mound we received one in opposition and from the city of Crum

1728
02:14:17,280 --> 02:14:23,640
 we received one in opposition and the map is color coded and you can, it's kind of hard

1729
02:14:23,640 --> 02:14:28,520
 to see it because it's such a large area.

1730
02:14:28,520 --> 02:14:32,760
 Staff recommends approval of this zoning request, it is consistent with the goals and objectives

1731
02:14:32,760 --> 02:14:37,560
 of the Denton plan 2030 and complies with the zoning criteria for approval and that

1732
02:14:37,560 --> 02:14:38,560
 concludes my presentation.

1733
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:39,560
 Thank you Cindy.

1734
02:14:39,560 --> 02:14:44,000
 The applicant is present if you have questions.

1735
02:14:44,000 --> 02:14:45,720
 Perfect.

1736
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:49,280
 So this is a public hearing, there will be opportunity for everyone to speak but before

1737
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:55,120
 we start I just wanted to have a couple housekeeping things said that hopefully will be helpful

1738
02:14:55,120 --> 02:14:59,520
 over the next potentially several hours.

1739
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:03,720
 First is I mentioned this in work session, I just want to remind the commission as well

1740
02:15:03,720 --> 02:15:07,280
 as anyone in attendance that we are looking at only a zoning case tonight.

1741
02:15:07,280 --> 02:15:10,320
 There was a concept plan that you saw that had apartments.

1742
02:15:10,320 --> 02:15:17,240
 I would urge the commission to look at just the zoning of MN and the uses within MN when

1743
02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:23,640
 we think through the zoning, the applicant is not held to that concept map, it's simply

1744
02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:27,600
 what he intends to build but once it gets rezoned there could be another cell, another

1745
02:15:27,600 --> 02:15:34,160
 buyer come in and so we are simply looking at the zoning case tonight so if we can focus

1746
02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:38,680
 on that I think it would be helpful and then as we have questions I'm going to ask that

1747
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:44,520
 the commission holds questions of the developer, the applicant or staff till the end if you

1748
02:15:44,520 --> 02:15:48,500
 just jot down your questions instead of coming back and forth to the podium we'll just do

1749
02:15:48,500 --> 02:15:53,440
 one set of large questions that the public brings to our attention at the end instead

1750
02:15:53,440 --> 02:15:59,880
 of going back and forth and then in accordance with our Robert's Rules training what we attempt

1751
02:15:59,880 --> 02:16:04,920
 to do is as soon as we close public hearing get a motion on a table before discussion.

1752
02:16:04,920 --> 02:16:09,120
 Typically we have a lot of discussion then look for a motion, I'm going to ask this evening

1753
02:16:09,120 --> 02:16:14,680
 that we motion, second that motion and then engage in the necessary discussion at that

1754
02:16:14,680 --> 02:16:20,040
 time just for the sake of progress and then for the audience a couple things that I want

1755
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:25,920
 to ensure you're aware of is we are not the final recommending body for this decision.

1756
02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:30,200
 There are some things that come before P&Z that we, it ends with us, this is not one

1757
02:16:30,200 --> 02:16:37,000
 of those items so whatever the vote is this evening from our commission it will go to

1758
02:16:37,000 --> 02:16:42,400
 city council for a vote so if we have a recommendation of denial it still goes to city council and

1759
02:16:42,400 --> 02:16:46,760
 they will have an independent decision from us with a recommendation to consider as well

1760
02:16:46,760 --> 02:16:51,200
 as an approval if we approve this project it's just a recommendation to city council

1761
02:16:51,200 --> 02:16:57,040
 so for whatever happens tonight there potentially will be another evening of your time that

1762
02:16:57,040 --> 02:17:00,840
 might be useful when city council hears this.

1763
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:08,920
 Last thing is we received not an insignificant amount of letters and emails from the public.

1764
02:17:08,920 --> 02:17:14,520
 We have and have had the opportunity to review everything that received before 4.30 so if

1765
02:17:14,520 --> 02:17:20,720
 it came in after 4.30 which we're still getting some in right now we have not reviewed it,

1766
02:17:20,720 --> 02:17:25,760
 it will be for city council to review so it's not going unnoticed it's just we haven't had

1767
02:17:25,760 --> 02:17:31,680
 time to review the ones that came in within the last ten minutes, lastly I have a stack

1768
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:38,240
 of 54 cards and we ran out of blue ones, the white ones denote to me that you're a non

1769
02:17:38,240 --> 02:17:43,080
 speaking individual or you wish not to speak rather so when I get to the white cards I

1770
02:17:43,080 --> 02:17:46,720
 might just ask if you're wishing to speak or not because I just don't know because of

1771
02:17:46,720 --> 02:17:52,920
 the colour and I'm not trying to be rude and then lastly in a public hearing item the public

1772
02:17:52,920 --> 02:17:57,520
 each individual has four minutes to speak, there will be a timer on all the screens and

1773
02:17:57,520 --> 02:18:02,280
 then I have a timer here it starts green with 30 seconds left it goes yellow with 10 seconds

1774
02:18:02,280 --> 02:18:06,480
 left it goes red just for the sake of everyone's time and consideration if we could pay attention

1775
02:18:06,480 --> 02:18:12,440
 to the colours at four minutes I'm going to try politely to cut you off at that point.

1776
02:18:12,440 --> 02:18:19,320
 So before we hop into the applicant it looks like Mr. Smith has something to say.

1777
02:18:19,320 --> 02:18:25,560
 Just a question of Cindy, you mentioned in work session we didn't have time to ask but

1778
02:18:25,560 --> 02:18:31,520
 you said there was discrepancies between how Argyle ISD calculates their student capacity

1779
02:18:31,520 --> 02:18:35,160
 versus Denton ISD, can you talk a little bit about that, what do you mean by that because

1780
02:18:35,160 --> 02:18:36,160
 you mentioned it briefly.

1781
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:54,080
 Let me get my notes.

1782
02:18:54,080 --> 02:19:00,200
 Where does the Denton ISD calculation come from, I guess not to, I know it's the context

1783
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:08,080
 of what RISD the city has but I guess I want to make sure that the Denton ISD calculation

1784
02:19:08,080 --> 02:19:11,640
 isn't flawed versus the Argyles or vice versa.

1785
02:19:11,640 --> 02:19:20,920
 Now I did request the formulas used from Argyle ISD to find out how they calculate their student

1786
02:19:20,920 --> 02:19:24,560
 population impacts and I was unable to get it.

1787
02:19:24,560 --> 02:19:29,200
 We did get a letter from the superintendent which is in your backup and we used that letter

1788
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:39,280
 as a way to try to backwards calculate how they calculate their student population projections.

1789
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:50,800
 Now Dentons actually has a student generation rate of 0.23 per non-substitized department

1790
02:19:50,800 --> 02:19:53,040
 unit.

1791
02:19:53,040 --> 02:20:05,720
 It appeared to us that AISD had a student generation rate of between 0.49 to 0.78 students

1792
02:20:05,720 --> 02:20:08,640
 per non-substitized department unit.

1793
02:20:08,640 --> 02:20:15,720
 From a development department standpoint, is 0.4 or 0.78, is that outside of the realm,

1794
02:20:15,720 --> 02:20:21,920
 is it having that calculation, I mean the 0.23 from Denton ISD is that--

1795
02:20:21,920 --> 02:20:26,480
 Is that industry standards within here?

1796
02:20:26,480 --> 02:20:33,600
 I did not go to different school districts to find out what their generation rate was.

1797
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:40,600
 All I can tell you is what the differences are between DISD and AISD and again that's

1798
02:20:40,600 --> 02:20:42,880
 really not hard and fast.

1799
02:20:42,880 --> 02:20:48,000
 The city of Denton is a college town so usually not a lot of kids in those units.

1800
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:52,840
 There's also a little more manufacturing and whatnot here in town so maybe there's not

1801
02:20:52,840 --> 02:20:56,880
 more single family residential that's being used and so an Argyle being more of a bedroom

1802
02:20:56,880 --> 02:21:01,720
 community than it is a business community so to speak, there might be a higher rate

1803
02:21:01,720 --> 02:21:02,720
 there.

1804
02:21:02,720 --> 02:21:03,720
 Okay, thank you.

1805
02:21:03,720 --> 02:21:04,720
 Appreciate it, Cindy.

1806
02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:05,720
 Sure.

1807
02:21:05,720 --> 02:21:06,720
 Thank you, Cindy.

1808
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:15,680
 Seeing no other questions for staff at this point, I invite Bill Dahlstrom to present.

1809
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:22,040
 Mr. Dahlstrom, as the applicant, you have 10 minutes to present if you could state your

1810
02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:23,160
 name and address for the record.

1811
02:21:23,160 --> 02:21:24,160
 No, that's not it.

1812
02:21:24,160 --> 02:21:35,960
 I'm sorry, I'm looking for it.

1813
02:21:35,960 --> 02:21:37,440
 It should be right in the middle of the screen.

1814
02:21:37,440 --> 02:21:38,440
 Here it is.

1815
02:21:38,440 --> 02:21:39,440
 There you go.

1816
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:53,520
 Mr. Chair, Mr. Commissioners, my name is Bill Dahlstrom, 2323 Ross Avenue in Dallas.

1817
02:21:53,520 --> 02:21:57,120
 I'm here on behalf of the applicant, MMRQ Land.

1818
02:21:57,120 --> 02:22:02,560
 Mr. Madge with MMRQ is here as well as our engineer to address any specific questions

1819
02:22:02,560 --> 02:22:09,640
 and as you said, Mr. Chair, we are here asking for a zoning change to the MN District.

1820
02:22:09,640 --> 02:22:12,760
 It's been a real privilege to represent MMRQ.

1821
02:22:12,760 --> 02:22:17,400
 They have tried to be a good corporate representative for the city.

1822
02:22:17,400 --> 02:22:21,840
 They have done several things in conjunction with the city and the city staff.

1823
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:26,520
 They voluntarily annexed a portion of their property to the city, subjected themselves

1824
02:22:26,520 --> 02:22:27,840
 to the zoning.

1825
02:22:27,840 --> 02:22:33,040
 They've agreed to extend utilities which will open up further development in the area and

1826
02:22:33,040 --> 02:22:37,800
 they've abandoned a gas well on the property as well, which again pursues to the city's

1827
02:22:37,800 --> 02:22:38,800
 comprehensive plan.

1828
02:22:38,800 --> 02:22:45,440
 That's something that the comp plan is promoting in order to provide more developable land.

1829
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:50,400
 But as you said, we're here basically asking for a change in zoning to the MN District.

1830
02:22:50,400 --> 02:22:58,200
 Basically, what we're trying to do is what's required of us, that is to bring a zoning

1831
02:22:58,200 --> 02:23:06,120
 application to you that is in conformance with the city's comprehensive plan.

1832
02:23:06,120 --> 02:23:10,120
 That's all we're trying to do is bring an application to you that is in conformance

1833
02:23:10,120 --> 02:23:16,120
 with the city's comprehensive plan, which is the lowest level mixed use district in

1834
02:23:16,120 --> 02:23:18,320
 the city's zoning ordinance.

1835
02:23:18,320 --> 02:23:22,520
 There are two other zoning districts in the city's zoning ordinance, the new zoning ordinance

1836
02:23:22,520 --> 02:23:27,240
 that are mixed use, but they are more intense and allow more intensive uses.

1837
02:23:27,240 --> 02:23:29,760
 We are coming in with what we think is reasonable.

1838
02:23:29,760 --> 02:23:34,440
 We're basically trying to follow through with the city policy, the city direction.

1839
02:23:34,440 --> 02:23:39,080
 The city's comprehensive plan is what guides this zoning case.

1840
02:23:39,080 --> 02:23:44,200
 As Cindy said, we conform to those regulations.

1841
02:23:44,200 --> 02:23:53,840
 Again, we conform to the future land use map designation of neighborhood mixed use.

1842
02:23:53,840 --> 02:23:58,480
 This is again repeating what Cindy showed you, but the location of the property and

1843
02:23:58,480 --> 02:24:02,280
 the designation on the future land use map.

1844
02:24:02,280 --> 02:24:07,260
 There are various goals and objectives within the comprehensive plan that have been identified

1845
02:24:07,260 --> 02:24:14,320
 that we satisfy encouraging compact growth at centers and corridors.

1846
02:24:14,320 --> 02:24:21,040
 This area, if you looked at the comprehensive plan, that pink area, what we used to call

1847
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:26,720
 in my old planning school is a node that's not a corridor.

1848
02:24:26,720 --> 02:24:31,480
 It's more of a compact area for growth in that area.

1849
02:24:31,480 --> 02:24:36,840
 I believe the extension of Brush Creek has a lot to do with that location of this neighborhood

1850
02:24:36,840 --> 02:24:39,400
 mixed use area.

1851
02:24:39,400 --> 02:24:44,720
 Gas well and pipeline impact and compatibility, again, reducing the areas devoted to and impacted

1852
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:47,920
 by drilling and production can improve development capacity.

1853
02:24:47,920 --> 02:24:48,920
 That's what we have done.

1854
02:24:48,920 --> 02:24:53,640
 That's what Mr. Madge has done by abandoning a gas well.

1855
02:24:53,640 --> 02:25:04,360
 Actually, I don't know what happened to that slide.

1856
02:25:04,360 --> 02:25:10,080
 But here's the mobility plan, again, shows the extension of the Brush Creek Road, which

1857
02:25:10,080 --> 02:25:13,280
 again intersects just south of our property.

1858
02:25:13,280 --> 02:25:18,520
 Again, it provides the location of two major thoroughfares that would provide the activity

1859
02:25:18,520 --> 02:25:23,880
 area that justifies this neighborhood mixed use area.

1860
02:25:23,880 --> 02:25:29,520
 And as Cindy showed earlier, there is a pattern already for properties on the street going

1861
02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:30,960
 to the mixed use districts.

1862
02:25:30,960 --> 02:25:35,720
 Again, to quote staff, staff recommends approval of this request as it complies with the criteria

1863
02:25:35,720 --> 02:25:41,120
 in the Denton Development Code and is consistent with the overall goals and objectives in the

1864
02:25:41,120 --> 02:25:42,920
 Denton Plan 2030.

1865
02:25:42,920 --> 02:25:52,040
 Again, it conforms to the Denton City's comprehensive plan.

1866
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:56,040
 We meet all the criteria, as Cindy said, for the ones that apply.

1867
02:25:56,040 --> 02:25:58,360
 Obviously, the small area doesn't apply.

1868
02:25:58,360 --> 02:26:00,840
 The ones that apply, we do satisfy.

1869
02:26:00,840 --> 02:26:03,840
 It's consistent with this future land use plan.

1870
02:26:03,840 --> 02:26:12,520
 It's consistent with the purposes of the zoning district and the changes are warranted.

1871
02:26:12,520 --> 02:26:22,200
 I know there are several issues raised concerning traffic, concerning impact on the school,

1872
02:26:22,200 --> 02:26:26,040
 concerning the actual land uses themselves.

1873
02:26:26,040 --> 02:26:29,880
 As far as the land uses themselves go, we are requesting a zoning change that would

1874
02:26:29,880 --> 02:26:34,760
 allow the uses permitted in the MN district.

1875
02:26:34,760 --> 02:26:36,320
 You are correct, Mr. Chair.

1876
02:26:36,320 --> 02:26:43,320
 That site plan that we submitted was a concept plan that we needed to use to base a TIA traffic

1877
02:26:43,320 --> 02:26:45,720
 impact analysis off of.

1878
02:26:45,720 --> 02:26:48,520
 It's not part of this application.

1879
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:53,460
 We agree with Cindy as far as the school comments go.

1880
02:26:53,460 --> 02:26:59,720
 We think the AISD stats are on the high side based on our experiences.

1881
02:26:59,720 --> 02:27:08,840
 We don't see equations or percentages that high in these types of multifamily residential.

1882
02:27:08,840 --> 02:27:15,240
 This residential is going to consist of, if we get it approved and continue this route,

1883
02:27:15,240 --> 02:27:24,400
 70% single family, 25% two-family, a two-bedroom, 70% one-bedroom, 25% two-bedroom and maybe

1884
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:26,320
 5% three-bedroom.

1885
02:27:26,320 --> 02:27:32,580
 We aren't proposing a large multifamily complex that would accommodate a lot of students.

1886
02:27:32,580 --> 02:27:36,840
 It's been in our experience that the number of students generated from a development like

1887
02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:44,600
 this is far, far less than what's shown or identified in the letter from the school district.

1888
02:27:44,600 --> 02:27:51,360
 Again, the traffic impact analysis shows that at full build out, we would be required to

1889
02:27:51,360 --> 02:27:57,680
 put in two left turn lanes off of 377, one into Brush Creek, one into one of our entrances.

1890
02:27:57,680 --> 02:28:01,520
 We think in order to comply with the city's comprehensive plan and further the city's

1891
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:09,520
 comprehensive plan, the policy that was approved by the city for mixed use neighborhood at

1892
02:28:09,520 --> 02:28:12,320
 this location, we think this is consistent with that.

1893
02:28:12,320 --> 02:28:16,720
 We aren't asking for the more intensive districts, we're asking for the lowest intensive mixed

1894
02:28:16,720 --> 02:28:17,720
 use district.

1895
02:28:17,720 --> 02:28:21,840
 Again, in order to comply with the city's comprehensive plan, we respectfully request

1896
02:28:21,840 --> 02:28:23,080
 a recommendation of approval.

1897
02:28:23,080 --> 02:28:27,440
 Again, Mr. Madges here, our engineer is here and I'm here to answer the questions you may

1898
02:28:27,440 --> 02:28:28,440
 have.

1899
02:28:28,440 --> 02:28:29,440
 I appreciate the presentation.

1900
02:28:29,440 --> 02:28:30,440
 We do have some questions.

1901
02:28:30,440 --> 02:28:31,440
 Commissioner Smith.

1902
02:28:31,440 --> 02:28:32,440
 Thank you, Chair.

1903
02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:40,720
 I think when it comes down to your statement and your comment about the city staff makes

1904
02:28:40,720 --> 02:28:47,480
 recommendation to approve this, we as a commission have voted for approval of items that the

1905
02:28:47,480 --> 02:28:49,760
 city staff has recommended denial of.

1906
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:54,480
 We've voted for approval of things or we've denied things that the city staff has recommended

1907
02:28:54,480 --> 02:28:56,880
 approval of.

1908
02:28:56,880 --> 02:29:02,340
 I think what always comes down to for us is going to be the public input as well as what

1909
02:29:02,340 --> 02:29:05,600
 comes down to actual land use around there.

1910
02:29:05,600 --> 02:29:10,560
 I think it's going to be pretty hard for me and I'm speaking for myself here, but I'm

1911
02:29:10,560 --> 02:29:14,200
 sure many of the commissioners would agree that pretty hard for me to get on board with

1912
02:29:14,200 --> 02:29:15,200
 this project.

1913
02:29:15,200 --> 02:29:22,180
 I'd like to give you some time to try to change my mind, but the way I see it now is that

1914
02:29:22,180 --> 02:29:27,880
 area, the land surrounding it, while maybe 10 years from now is in fill with an argyle

1915
02:29:27,880 --> 02:29:34,040
 and fill with a 100 coal ranch out to the west, Denton creeps further south, that you

1916
02:29:34,040 --> 02:29:36,960
 can start seeing multifamily around there 10 years from now.

1917
02:29:36,960 --> 02:29:41,560
 I don't think that, not necessarily that your project will be done next year, probably done

1918
02:29:41,560 --> 02:29:46,920
 in three years or so, four years, knowing development works, but I just don't think

1919
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:51,560
 the timing is right, but I'd give you the chance to maybe change my mind.

1920
02:29:51,560 --> 02:29:58,080
 I really do appreciate that comment and I do understand the comment, I really do.

1921
02:29:58,080 --> 02:30:04,680
 The issue is under 211 of the state, local government code, we're trying to do zoning

1922
02:30:04,680 --> 02:30:06,320
 in accordance with the comprehensive plan.

1923
02:30:06,320 --> 02:30:07,840
 That's basically all we're doing.

1924
02:30:07,840 --> 02:30:16,200
 We don't have any other choice under the way the comprehensive plan is designed.

1925
02:30:16,200 --> 02:30:22,040
 That decision was made by the city to designate this area as a neighborhood mixed use area.

1926
02:30:22,040 --> 02:30:29,520
 We're basically trying to conform to what the city has directed us to do.

1927
02:30:29,520 --> 02:30:32,760
 We've already been looking at the 2030 plan as it is and there's been times where we've

1928
02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:36,120
 gone against what the flume says.

1929
02:30:36,120 --> 02:30:40,000
 We understand as a commission that maybe the future land use map isn't always right and

1930
02:30:40,000 --> 02:30:45,360
 we've actually voted against it plenty of other times in the past.

1931
02:30:45,360 --> 02:30:52,000
 I understand you're going by what the city stated back when that process started in 2012

1932
02:30:52,000 --> 02:30:56,560
 and wrapped up in 2015 and stating what things would be like then, but I would probably argue

1933
02:30:56,560 --> 02:31:02,920
 that economics has changed, demographics has changed, the population in Argyle has certainly

1934
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:05,720
 changed over the last four or five years and many of these citizens in the room would probably

1935
02:31:05,720 --> 02:31:08,240
 tell you.

1936
02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:09,240
 Thank you.

1937
02:31:09,240 --> 02:31:10,240
 Thank you.

1938
02:31:10,240 --> 02:31:11,240
 I really appreciate that.

1939
02:31:11,240 --> 02:31:13,440
 Mr. Chair, could I reserve my last few minutes for rebuttal?

1940
02:31:13,440 --> 02:31:14,440
 Absolutely.

1941
02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:15,440
 Thank you.

1942
02:31:15,440 --> 02:31:17,240
 Do you want to do that now or do you want to?

1943
02:31:17,240 --> 02:31:19,240
 Oh, no, after the other speakers speak.

1944
02:31:19,240 --> 02:31:20,760
 Yeah, that's fine.

1945
02:31:20,760 --> 02:31:21,760
 Yeah.

1946
02:31:21,760 --> 02:31:22,760
 Commissioner Prieta.

1947
02:31:22,760 --> 02:31:25,760
 Thank you.

1948
02:31:25,760 --> 02:31:30,000
 In kind of piggybacking off what Commissioner Smith said, we normally try and come into

1949
02:31:30,000 --> 02:31:33,800
 these with a pretty open mind.

1950
02:31:33,800 --> 02:31:40,000
 Having said that, right now, between the stack that we have here and the fact that I'd roughly

1951
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:45,520
 count over 90 people that have showed up in opposition to this, it's going to be very

1952
02:31:45,520 --> 02:31:51,600
 hard I think for the commission to vote for this and that's not that I think that this

1953
02:31:51,600 --> 02:31:54,120
 is inherently a bad idea.

1954
02:31:54,120 --> 02:32:00,960
 One of the things that I think we do have a big issue with is the community is not on

1955
02:32:00,960 --> 02:32:07,000
 board with it, which I think would also create more difficulty in getting it approved by

1956
02:32:07,000 --> 02:32:09,920
 city council.

1957
02:32:09,920 --> 02:32:16,320
 With that in mind, one of the things I'd like to ask and I don't know if I know the applicant

1958
02:32:16,320 --> 02:32:17,320
 isn't here right now.

1959
02:32:17,320 --> 02:32:18,320
 The applicant is here.

1960
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:19,320
 Oh, okay.

1961
02:32:19,320 --> 02:32:20,320
 Yes, sir.

1962
02:32:20,320 --> 02:32:30,200
 One of the things that I would loosely suggest is it possible to withdraw right now, kind

1963
02:32:30,200 --> 02:32:34,200
 of get with the community, see if you can work out something that would kind of get

1964
02:32:34,200 --> 02:32:36,480
 them a little bit more on board with what we're going.

1965
02:32:36,480 --> 02:32:40,080
 I understand we're talking just about a zoning, right, that right now everybody's looking

1966
02:32:40,080 --> 02:32:44,200
 at a huge apartment complex and going no, no, no, we can't have this, but all we're

1967
02:32:44,200 --> 02:32:50,360
 talking about is the idea of something going in there, but I would hope that maybe we could

1968
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:56,640
 figure out a way to get more community buy-in with it, which would make it a lot easier

1969
02:32:56,640 --> 02:33:03,240
 to get a yes vote from here, and then definitely a yes vote for city council, because as it

1970
02:33:03,240 --> 02:33:12,800
 stands right now, I mean, 90 people were looking at about four hours worth of conversation.

1971
02:33:12,800 --> 02:33:20,560
 I think when people stick around for two hours to talk, they tend to entrench a little bit.

1972
02:33:20,560 --> 02:33:26,000
 Maybe if we could regroup, it might be easier to find something that we could approve on,

1973
02:33:26,000 --> 02:33:29,040
 and that would not require a supermajority of city council.

1974
02:33:29,040 --> 02:33:30,320
 I would suggest that.

1975
02:33:30,320 --> 02:33:34,440
 I think that might be probably a more fruitful way to move forward and ensure that you guys

1976
02:33:34,440 --> 02:33:36,480
 have a successful outcome in the future.

1977
02:33:36,480 --> 02:33:39,000
 I will ask my client, yes, sir.

1978
02:33:39,000 --> 02:33:40,000
 Thank you.

1979
02:33:40,000 --> 02:33:41,000
 Again, appreciate that comment.

1980
02:33:41,000 --> 02:33:42,000
 Commissioner Cole.

1981
02:33:42,000 --> 02:33:43,000
 Thank you, Chair.

1982
02:33:43,000 --> 02:33:49,640
 Yeah, I just wanted to echo my fellow commissioners on this.

1983
02:33:49,640 --> 02:33:58,360
 This is going to be a ... I almost don't think this is going to happen for you tonight.

1984
02:33:58,360 --> 02:34:05,080
 I have many reasons of opposition, too many to ... I mean, we've got a lot of speakers

1985
02:34:05,080 --> 02:34:16,480
 tonight, but if there's something to get you ... You can read the tea leaves, man.

1986
02:34:16,480 --> 02:34:24,840
 If I could go consult my client, I'll be right back.

1987
02:34:24,840 --> 02:34:39,840
 Yeah, if you wouldn't take a minute, that'd be great.

1988
02:34:39,840 --> 02:34:59,360
 Thank you.

1989
02:34:59,360 --> 02:35:18,360
 Thank you.

1990
02:35:18,360 --> 02:35:37,360
 Thank you.

1991
02:35:37,360 --> 02:36:05,200
 Thank you.

1992
02:36:05,200 --> 02:36:17,880
 Yes, sir.

1993
02:36:17,880 --> 02:36:23,280
 I guess one question we had, and we don't have a problem doing something to expedite

1994
02:36:23,280 --> 02:36:32,280
 tonight, but what in general, what direction would we be going if ... What else is there

1995
02:36:32,280 --> 02:36:39,400
 for us to come back with that might satisfy the commission?

1996
02:36:39,400 --> 02:36:40,520
 That's a good question.

1997
02:36:40,520 --> 02:36:44,560
 It's worth noting that there would be potentially two options.

1998
02:36:44,560 --> 02:36:49,440
 There's a withdrawal, which would be a more permanent decision.

1999
02:36:49,440 --> 02:36:50,840
 You'd go through the reapplication.

2000
02:36:50,840 --> 02:36:51,840
 You'd start over.

2001
02:36:51,840 --> 02:36:52,840
 I understand.

2002
02:36:52,840 --> 02:36:57,120
 Whether we could look to postpone, if there's a delay to be asked.

2003
02:36:57,120 --> 02:36:58,120
 I understand your question.

2004
02:36:58,120 --> 02:37:01,640
 I'll let Commissioner Pereta maybe speak to that.

2005
02:37:01,640 --> 02:37:04,720
 Yeah, I'm thinking more in terms of a substantive solution.

2006
02:37:04,720 --> 02:37:05,720
 Understood.

2007
02:37:05,720 --> 02:37:08,720
 Commissioner Pereta.

2008
02:37:08,720 --> 02:37:14,800
 My point is, looking to the future of what's going to go out there, we kind of know where

2009
02:37:14,800 --> 02:37:18,080
 this trip is going to be in the long term.

2010
02:37:18,080 --> 02:37:24,280
 Right now, like I said, I would say a postponement or something to work something out with the

2011
02:37:24,280 --> 02:37:30,160
 neighbors at large to see if you can get more buy-in from them, because here's the deal.

2012
02:37:30,160 --> 02:37:36,600
 Right now, with this amount of opposition, it would wind up being most likely a no from

2013
02:37:36,600 --> 02:37:41,120
 us, which requires a super majority at City Council, which means that you're denied.

2014
02:37:41,120 --> 02:37:46,480
 At that point, it puts off you guys doing something for a couple of years, as opposed

2015
02:37:46,480 --> 02:37:52,360
 to maybe getting something that they're more amenable to do it in a closer timeframe.

2016
02:37:52,360 --> 02:37:56,000
 On that one, I would leave it to you guys to work out with the community.

2017
02:37:56,000 --> 02:38:00,480
 I'll defer to Larry in terms of what can be done.

2018
02:38:00,480 --> 02:38:01,480
 I perfectly understand.

2019
02:38:01,480 --> 02:38:04,480
 I'm thinking more in terms of a substantive solution.

2020
02:38:04,480 --> 02:38:07,320
 In a lot of communities, I work with their plan development options.

2021
02:38:07,320 --> 02:38:10,040
 Like procedurally what you would submit right now to move on?

2022
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:11,040
 Exactly.

2023
02:38:11,040 --> 02:38:14,320
 I'll defer to Council.

2024
02:38:14,320 --> 02:38:19,880
 I would recommend to the Commission not give any feedback without conducting the public

2025
02:38:19,880 --> 02:38:22,120
 hearing and following it through.

2026
02:38:22,120 --> 02:38:25,760
 I think that this is an appropriate thing to put back to staff.

2027
02:38:25,760 --> 02:38:32,560
 If there's any desire to postpone or withdraw or what have you, allow the applicant to work

2028
02:38:32,560 --> 02:38:36,120
 with staff and come up with something reasonable.

2029
02:38:36,120 --> 02:38:45,280
 I don't think it's fair or appropriate for the Commission to offer suggestions without

2030
02:38:45,280 --> 02:38:50,920
 hearing all of the evidence from the people that have come here tonight.

2031
02:38:50,920 --> 02:38:56,720
 I would recommend that you not attempt to give any kind of feedback without hearing

2032
02:38:56,720 --> 02:39:01,520
 everything here, but instead kick it back to the staff to work with the applicant.

2033
02:39:01,520 --> 02:39:08,400
 I'll do respect, but we just need to know what's at the end of the tunnel.

2034
02:39:08,400 --> 02:39:13,960
 There's a mechanism to get to a compromise, and I don't know there is yet.

2035
02:39:13,960 --> 02:39:18,320
 I'm not asking for a substantive direction, just a procedural direction.

2036
02:39:18,320 --> 02:39:23,800
 Is there a tool out there -- Do you postpone, withdraw, or what that step

2037
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:24,800
 would be?

2038
02:39:24,800 --> 02:39:25,800
 Is that the question?

2039
02:39:25,800 --> 02:39:26,800
 No.

2040
02:39:26,800 --> 02:39:31,200
 The next step, because we're agreeable to postpone.

2041
02:39:31,200 --> 02:39:36,440
 My question is, is there a tool, like in other communities, we have planned development districts

2042
02:39:36,440 --> 02:39:45,260
 where we can modify and reach a conclusion with uses and densities, development standards

2043
02:39:45,260 --> 02:39:48,680
 that everybody can agree to?

2044
02:39:48,680 --> 02:39:49,680
 That's the question.

2045
02:39:49,680 --> 02:39:52,960
 Is there something along those lines that we can pursue?

2046
02:39:52,960 --> 02:40:01,060
 I'm going to interject here and ask Richard to maybe speak in so we can do in the immediacy.

2047
02:40:01,060 --> 02:40:06,960
 We are under the 2019 DDC, so there's a number of other options that are available to us.

2048
02:40:06,960 --> 02:40:12,720
 One of those options could be, if you would seek a postponement, we could ideally hold

2049
02:40:12,720 --> 02:40:19,280
 another or a series of community meetings and look at whether you convert this application

2050
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:24,640
 to a straight MN, from a straight MN to a PD, that may address buffer or some other

2051
02:40:24,640 --> 02:40:29,320
 concerns that the residents may have with respect to height or some other, whatever

2052
02:40:29,320 --> 02:40:30,320
 it may be.

2053
02:40:30,320 --> 02:40:36,920
 I don't know every single concern, but there are tools that could be available, I think,

2054
02:40:36,920 --> 02:40:39,600
 to potentially address some of the concerns.

2055
02:40:39,600 --> 02:40:40,760
 That's what we're looking for.

2056
02:40:40,760 --> 02:40:41,760
 Thank you.

2057
02:40:41,760 --> 02:40:47,800
 Based on that, we're agreeable to postpone it a month, six weeks, I mean, to give us

2058
02:40:47,800 --> 02:41:00,000
 -- Just one second.

2059
02:41:00,000 --> 02:41:01,000
 Just one second.

2060
02:41:01,000 --> 02:41:12,480
 Do we have the timeline in the city to postpone it?

2061
02:41:12,480 --> 02:41:13,480
 I would say at least six weeks.

2062
02:41:13,480 --> 02:41:14,480
 Okay.

2063
02:41:14,480 --> 02:41:15,480
 So it needs to be at least six weeks to get it through the city and then agenda.

2064
02:41:15,480 --> 02:41:16,480
 Oh, okay.

2065
02:41:16,480 --> 02:41:17,480
 That's right, because it's a change in the application.

2066
02:41:17,480 --> 02:41:18,480
 What's the next meeting?

2067
02:41:18,480 --> 02:41:19,480
 That's the -- We've all taken time out of our days to come here to make sure we have

2068
02:41:19,480 --> 02:41:20,480
 a voice.

2069
02:41:20,480 --> 02:41:29,480
 We really do like to have a voice tonight.

2070
02:41:29,480 --> 02:41:33,720
 I certainly understand, I'm not closing that option down.

2071
02:41:33,720 --> 02:41:40,000
 It is worth noting, first, we can't have banter between the dais and the individuals out there.

2072
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:42,320
 You're not mic'd up, for one.

2073
02:41:42,320 --> 02:41:47,800
 Two, if we postpone, you're going to come out another night for another public hearing.

2074
02:41:47,800 --> 02:41:52,200
 So I understand that, and we will open the public hearing for anyone who wishes to speak.

2075
02:41:52,200 --> 02:41:55,560
 That right is not going to be taken from anyone in this room this evening.

2076
02:41:55,560 --> 02:42:00,560
 That's not what we're discussing about closing down the public testimony this evening.

2077
02:42:00,560 --> 02:42:04,560
 We're discussing a postponement of a decision this evening, potentially, and that would

2078
02:42:04,560 --> 02:42:11,560
 have to be a vote from the dais.

2079
02:42:11,560 --> 02:42:20,600
 So our meetings are December 11th or January 8th?

2080
02:42:20,600 --> 02:42:27,840
 Or we can postpone to a date uncertain?

2081
02:42:27,840 --> 02:42:45,400
 All right, let me -- One second, please.

2082
02:42:45,400 --> 02:42:52,440
 Mr. Chair, I think we believe the most flexible thing for the city and everybody would be

2083
02:42:52,440 --> 02:42:57,440
 to a date uncertain so that we can have as much time as we need to work on these issues

2084
02:42:57,440 --> 02:42:58,440
 and then re-notify.

2085
02:42:58,440 --> 02:42:59,440
 Okay.

2086
02:42:59,440 --> 02:43:01,760
 I appreciate that.

2087
02:43:01,760 --> 02:43:08,240
 At this time, that vote would be taken after the public hearing's closed, and then we'd

2088
02:43:08,240 --> 02:43:12,480
 reopen the public hearing because we'll re-notice it, correct?

2089
02:43:12,480 --> 02:43:15,720
 So if there's no other -- Do you have a question for the applicant, Christopher Smith?

2090
02:43:15,720 --> 02:43:16,720
 Yes.

2091
02:43:16,720 --> 02:43:18,840
 We have one more question for you, and then we'll go to the public hearing.

2092
02:43:18,840 --> 02:43:19,840
 Christopher Smith.

2093
02:43:19,840 --> 02:43:20,840
 Thank you, Chair.

2094
02:43:20,840 --> 02:43:24,480
 No, you were asking about just substance and whatnot, and I get the PD direction that Richard

2095
02:43:24,480 --> 02:43:26,480
 -- That's what you're looking for.

2096
02:43:26,480 --> 02:43:27,480
 Yes.

2097
02:43:27,480 --> 02:43:32,320
 I guess if you're wanting to know from a standpoint of -- and because of what Council said, I

2098
02:43:32,320 --> 02:43:36,040
 won't necessarily what exactly we're looking for, but I could tell you more in depth maybe

2099
02:43:36,040 --> 02:43:40,360
 what I think my issue is with this, and it's the density part.

2100
02:43:40,360 --> 02:43:43,920
 And so if you're going to reconsider going to a PD to be able to adjust the buffers and

2101
02:43:43,920 --> 02:43:48,180
 the height restrictions and everything else that are outside of the conformance of MN,

2102
02:43:48,180 --> 02:43:49,180
 that's totally understandable.

2103
02:43:49,180 --> 02:43:50,780
 You can definitely come back with that.

2104
02:43:50,780 --> 02:43:55,120
 You probably still run into the same stone walls personally with me because of the density

2105
02:43:55,120 --> 02:43:56,120
 issue.

2106
02:43:56,120 --> 02:43:57,120
 I think the density is not right.

2107
02:43:57,120 --> 02:44:01,580
 Now, do I think that it needs to go to an R1 or an R2 where you have one or two units

2108
02:44:01,580 --> 02:44:02,580
 per acre?

2109
02:44:02,580 --> 02:44:03,580
 No.

2110
02:44:03,580 --> 02:44:09,400
 I think that something that is a higher density, a four or six unit maybe, I don't think multifamily

2111
02:44:09,400 --> 02:44:11,720
 makes sense in my mind for this project.

2112
02:44:11,720 --> 02:44:13,720
 But that's just my two cents.

2113
02:44:13,720 --> 02:44:15,440
 Before you move on, we get public hearings.

2114
02:44:15,440 --> 02:44:16,920
 That allows us to research those.

2115
02:44:16,920 --> 02:44:17,920
 Yeah.

2116
02:44:17,920 --> 02:44:18,920
 Correct.

2117
02:44:18,920 --> 02:44:19,920
 Thank you.

2118
02:44:19,920 --> 02:44:20,920
 Appreciate it.

2119
02:44:20,920 --> 02:44:21,920
 I don't see any other questions for you.

2120
02:44:21,920 --> 02:44:22,920
 Thank you.

2121
02:44:22,920 --> 02:44:23,920
 Thank you.

2122
02:44:23,920 --> 02:44:26,100
 Because this is a public hearing, we have these cards.

2123
02:44:26,100 --> 02:44:28,720
 If you have not filled out a card, we ask that you would.

2124
02:44:28,720 --> 02:44:31,840
 If not, I think we do have some extra blue cards now.

2125
02:44:31,840 --> 02:44:34,880
 If not, when everyone's done, you can walk up and speak.

2126
02:44:34,880 --> 02:44:37,480
 So we'll just go through these.

2127
02:44:37,480 --> 02:44:41,960
 I apologize in advance if I mispronounce any names.

2128
02:44:41,960 --> 02:44:44,760
 But the first one I have here is Brian Trail.

2129
02:44:44,760 --> 02:44:50,680
 It's Brian Trail here.

2130
02:44:50,680 --> 02:44:53,080
 I'll call him in a little bit.

2131
02:44:53,080 --> 02:44:54,760
 Is there anyone in the overflow?

2132
02:44:54,760 --> 02:44:55,760
 Okay.

2133
02:44:55,760 --> 02:44:59,520
 We'll put him to the side for a second.

2134
02:44:59,520 --> 02:45:02,180
 Next is JP Jensen.

2135
02:45:02,180 --> 02:45:05,600
 And then after JP, we're going to call Mike Block.

2136
02:45:05,600 --> 02:45:09,320
 I need you to state your name and address for the record.

2137
02:45:09,320 --> 02:45:11,080
 And you have four minutes.

2138
02:45:11,080 --> 02:45:12,640
 I won't need that long.

2139
02:45:12,640 --> 02:45:20,000
 JP Jensen, 2304 Chipping Campton Road, Argyle, actually in the city of Denton, with the Argyle

2140
02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:21,000
 address.

2141
02:45:21,000 --> 02:45:28,640
 I agree with some of the commissioners that the density that would be created with the

2142
02:45:28,640 --> 02:45:35,640
 addition of the units or with the zoning change that would allow the density is overwhelming

2143
02:45:35,640 --> 02:45:36,720
 at this time.

2144
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:45,560
 I think that maybe in a few years once those roads are expanded and there's better access

2145
02:45:45,560 --> 02:45:54,040
 and safety, et cetera, in addition to that, I think the school system would be overburdened.

2146
02:45:54,040 --> 02:45:56,280
 It's already overburdened.

2147
02:45:56,280 --> 02:46:05,440
 In your packets, you notice there are a number from the -- excuse me -- from the superintendent

2148
02:46:05,440 --> 02:46:11,480
 from Argyle ISD said there's a number of units that are lots that are under constructs, under

2149
02:46:11,480 --> 02:46:15,360
 development, finished and are planned.

2150
02:46:15,360 --> 02:46:19,960
 So there's lots of housing opportunities coming down Argyle's way, and it's going to fill

2151
02:46:19,960 --> 02:46:24,200
 up the school system from that standpoint.

2152
02:46:24,200 --> 02:46:29,640
 In addition to that, I happen -- although I'm not within 200 feet of the subject property,

2153
02:46:29,640 --> 02:46:35,920
 I do live in a neighborhood that's around it and in the city.

2154
02:46:35,920 --> 02:46:42,280
 I do have to access 377 and Brush Creek Road, and right now there's plenty of traffic on

2155
02:46:42,280 --> 02:46:44,800
 those roads.

2156
02:46:44,800 --> 02:46:50,760
 Well taken from the presentation that there's going to be expansion of those thoroughfares,

2157
02:46:50,760 --> 02:46:59,440
 but that's down the road and so to speak, and when as and if that might happen, then

2158
02:46:59,440 --> 02:47:05,760
 this particular application might be better received because it can accommodate that as

2159
02:47:05,760 --> 02:47:06,760
 well.

2160
02:47:06,760 --> 02:47:15,040
 Also, the city of -- the Argyle ISD at that point might have more facilities to accommodate

2161
02:47:15,040 --> 02:47:20,640
 more students, and the last thing we want -- although I'm an empty nester at this point,

2162
02:47:20,640 --> 02:47:30,400
 I do have grandkids in the school system at Argyle, and I would not like to see an overpopulation

2163
02:47:30,400 --> 02:47:38,360
 of the student-teacher ratio increasing just because of this zoning change at this time.

2164
02:47:38,360 --> 02:47:46,600
 So I appreciate what the commissioners have voiced so far tonight, and I would hope that

2165
02:47:46,600 --> 02:47:52,240
 the applicant would reconsider, you know, how this presentation -- or what they might

2166
02:47:52,240 --> 02:47:54,160
 come back to you with.

2167
02:47:54,160 --> 02:47:56,600
 So thank you for your time, and I appreciate it.

2168
02:47:56,600 --> 02:48:09,480
 Thank you.

2169
02:48:09,480 --> 02:48:10,480
 I am Mike Block.

2170
02:48:10,480 --> 02:48:13,680
 I live at 4993 Kiowa Trail.

2171
02:48:13,680 --> 02:48:15,480
 I do live within 200 feet.

2172
02:48:15,480 --> 02:48:25,760
 I'm in the ETJ, and I just don't understand why this area being considered for apartments

2173
02:48:25,760 --> 02:48:32,760
 is being considered an area that's surrounded by -- is designated as a rural area.

2174
02:48:32,760 --> 02:48:36,320
 Since we're in the ETJ, we're basically like farmland.

2175
02:48:36,320 --> 02:48:41,780
 We have farm animals, we have horse barns, we have -- there's all kinds of animals that

2176
02:48:41,780 --> 02:48:47,080
 back right up to this property, and to us, it just doesn't make sense.

2177
02:48:47,080 --> 02:48:49,120
 It doesn't make any sense at all.

2178
02:48:49,120 --> 02:48:50,720
 But thank you, Commissioner Smith.

2179
02:48:50,720 --> 02:48:54,560
 Thank you -- I don't know how to pronounce your name -- Pranetta.

2180
02:48:54,560 --> 02:48:55,940
 Thank you, Commissioner Pranetta.

2181
02:48:55,940 --> 02:48:57,360
 Thank you, Commissioner Cole.

2182
02:48:57,360 --> 02:48:59,480
 I agree with you guys and everything you said.

2183
02:48:59,480 --> 02:49:01,360
 I really do appreciate that.

2184
02:49:01,360 --> 02:49:04,320
 And what it comes down to is the area's just not ready for this.

2185
02:49:04,320 --> 02:49:05,320
 It's not.

2186
02:49:05,320 --> 02:49:11,760
 Yeah, and the zoning -- the zoning to me doesn't seem to be following a trend.

2187
02:49:11,760 --> 02:49:16,800
 To me, it seems more like spot zoning to me, just plopping, you know, some apartments right

2188
02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:21,320
 into the -- into that area.

2189
02:49:21,320 --> 02:49:22,320
 No buffer zone.

2190
02:49:22,320 --> 02:49:27,200
 I mean, we're going to have apartments with balconies with people looking into our yard,

2191
02:49:27,200 --> 02:49:28,560
 you know, where we're used to privacy.

2192
02:49:28,560 --> 02:49:33,760
 I've been there for 20 years, so this just doesn't make any sense at all.

2193
02:49:33,760 --> 02:49:41,640
 I'm not seeing any timelines on Highway 377 as far as when that road is going to be completed,

2194
02:49:41,640 --> 02:49:46,440
 but we just had two mothers and two daughters die on that road because of the traffic, and

2195
02:49:46,440 --> 02:49:49,580
 it's a terrible tragedy.

2196
02:49:49,580 --> 02:49:55,640
 That's a quarter mile away from this apartment complex, you know, so there's been a lot of

2197
02:49:55,640 --> 02:49:58,720
 accidents on that road.

2198
02:49:58,720 --> 02:50:00,160
 Let's see.

2199
02:50:00,160 --> 02:50:06,120
 Other concerns, light pollution, noise pollution, decreased property values.

2200
02:50:06,120 --> 02:50:11,160
 Who's going to want to buy my house, you know, as a horse property when there's four story

2201
02:50:11,160 --> 02:50:16,160
 apartments, you know, right behind it?

2202
02:50:16,160 --> 02:50:18,640
 You know, we've already had those storage facilities go up.

2203
02:50:18,640 --> 02:50:21,440
 We had no say in that because that's ETJ.

2204
02:50:21,440 --> 02:50:24,480
 Those things just plopped up one day, and we're like, hey, what's going on?

2205
02:50:24,480 --> 02:50:27,600
 You know, we had no notification or anything.

2206
02:50:27,600 --> 02:50:33,440
 I know it's state law that you guys are not required to notify us being in the ETJ, but

2207
02:50:33,440 --> 02:50:37,400
 it would be a really nice courtesy if you guys would notify us.

2208
02:50:37,400 --> 02:50:44,040
 I mean, I know it's something that -- it just would be a really nice neighborly, you know,

2209
02:50:44,040 --> 02:50:45,320
 courtesy to be notified.

2210
02:50:45,320 --> 02:50:49,000
 I know the signs are your notification, but it would be nice to be personally notified

2211
02:50:49,000 --> 02:50:53,320
 too.

2212
02:50:53,320 --> 02:51:04,760
 As far as those two -- the two people that are basically wanting this approved within

2213
02:51:04,760 --> 02:51:09,280
 the 200-foot zone, I believe they do have a financial interest because that basically

2214
02:51:09,280 --> 02:51:11,400
 is going to be commercial land.

2215
02:51:11,400 --> 02:51:16,640
 Those people own a lot of land right there, so how can that not be a financial interest?

2216
02:51:16,640 --> 02:51:20,960
 I mean, they're going to -- you know, that land is going to be developed, and they're

2217
02:51:20,960 --> 02:51:27,360
 going to make money off of it because -- and they want development, they want apartments.

2218
02:51:27,360 --> 02:51:30,320
 So anyway, my wife -- I submitted a letter with my wife.

2219
02:51:30,320 --> 02:51:34,920
 She couldn't be here tonight with her.

2220
02:51:34,920 --> 02:51:44,720
 She's opposed to this, and anyway, we both adamantly oppose this rezoning and we oppose

2221
02:51:44,720 --> 02:51:46,720
 especially apartments going in here.

2222
02:51:46,720 --> 02:51:47,720
 Thank you.

2223
02:51:47,720 --> 02:51:48,720
 Thank you.

2224
02:51:48,720 --> 02:52:06,000
 So the next one that I can call is Tara Higgins, and then followed by Court Higgins.

2225
02:52:06,000 --> 02:52:09,000
 Tara, if you could state your name and address for the record.

2226
02:52:09,000 --> 02:52:10,000
 Yes, sir.

2227
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:11,000
 My name is Tara Higgins.

2228
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:15,240
 I live at 4951 Kiowa Trail, and it's actually directly behind that property in question.

2229
02:52:15,240 --> 02:52:16,240
 I was told --

2230
02:52:16,240 --> 02:52:19,160
 You can turn the camera on upstairs.

2231
02:52:19,160 --> 02:52:26,560
 Anyway, I live directly behind this property in question.

2232
02:52:26,560 --> 02:52:31,000
 So as you can see, that is the fence line right here.

2233
02:52:31,000 --> 02:52:32,000
 There are no trees.

2234
02:52:32,000 --> 02:52:33,000
 Oh, sorry.

2235
02:52:33,000 --> 02:52:34,440
 There are no trees.

2236
02:52:34,440 --> 02:52:39,680
 There's no buffer whatsoever, and I understand that we're ETJ and therefore don't get a notification

2237
02:52:39,680 --> 02:52:44,120
 about the zoning change request, but it would have been nice to know before not finding

2238
02:52:44,120 --> 02:52:46,280
 out through the grapevine.

2239
02:52:46,280 --> 02:52:48,580
 There are six other homes, as you can see, that are affected.

2240
02:52:48,580 --> 02:52:50,640
 It's not just me.

2241
02:52:50,640 --> 02:52:56,200
 So anything that you build this, by the way, is what a four-story building looks like.

2242
02:52:56,200 --> 02:52:58,880
 I know they don't want to necessarily put apartments there.

2243
02:52:58,880 --> 02:53:03,840
 They don't have a plan, or so they say, but this is what a four-story building looks like,

2244
02:53:03,840 --> 02:53:07,920
 and this is the view from my backyard right now.

2245
02:53:07,920 --> 02:53:14,240
 I own one acre, and as Mike just said, the only people approving of the zoning change

2246
02:53:14,240 --> 02:53:16,960
 are big landowners, so they stand to gain.

2247
02:53:16,960 --> 02:53:21,200
 Our property value will decline, and even with a shiny, pretty, and brand-new building

2248
02:53:21,200 --> 02:53:25,880
 of any kind, it will affect the marketability of our homes negatively.

2249
02:53:25,880 --> 02:53:34,720
 Also, I was an I-1-1 dispatcher for the county and have taken many, many calls of noise complaints

2250
02:53:34,720 --> 02:53:39,680
 from any area, whether it's an apartment or business, and disturbance calls.

2251
02:53:39,680 --> 02:53:45,000
 This will put a strain on Denton PD, because this requires a two-unit response, and again,

2252
02:53:45,000 --> 02:53:50,600
 crime statistics will rise negatively and will put a strain on my, or negatively impact

2253
02:53:50,600 --> 02:53:52,600
 my property value.

2254
02:53:52,600 --> 02:53:57,240
 At the July and August mobility committee meeting and residence meeting, your very own

2255
02:53:57,240 --> 02:54:03,240
 city engineers said, rather adamantly and passionate, that the infrastructure is not

2256
02:54:03,240 --> 02:54:04,240
 in place.

2257
02:54:04,240 --> 02:54:09,000
 The streets are not in place, sewer's not in place, there is no room for growth at this

2258
02:54:09,000 --> 02:54:10,000
 time.

2259
02:54:10,000 --> 02:54:13,760
 I understand Brush Creek and Fort Worth Drive will be widened, but that's not in place,

2260
02:54:13,760 --> 02:54:18,240
 and it's already overloaded per your own engineers.

2261
02:54:18,240 --> 02:54:23,760
 Not even two weeks after that, apparently, the developer, along with another developer

2262
02:54:23,760 --> 02:54:29,240
 in the area, made a deal with the city to go in together to split the cost to run the

2263
02:54:29,240 --> 02:54:33,200
 necessary sewer lines, so I guess money does talk.

2264
02:54:33,200 --> 02:54:39,880
 I'm sorry, that's just not right for the little homeowner in the area.

2265
02:54:39,880 --> 02:54:44,440
 The character and overall setup of the homes along Brush Creek Road, Hamilton, Wood Creek,

2266
02:54:44,440 --> 02:54:45,800
 and Hills of Argyle.

2267
02:54:45,800 --> 02:54:51,000
 The property in question with this zoning change will, is far from consistent with the

2268
02:54:51,000 --> 02:54:56,680
 existing character of the area.

2269
02:54:56,680 --> 02:54:58,920
 And I don't know how much time I still have.

2270
02:54:58,920 --> 02:55:00,960
 - A minute and 10.

2271
02:55:00,960 --> 02:55:02,960
 - Okay, thank you.

2272
02:55:02,960 --> 02:55:08,720
 So, this does not even conform to your own vision, as per your development code, that

2273
02:55:08,720 --> 02:55:14,560
 the specific use will be compatible with, and not be injurious to the use and enjoyment

2274
02:55:14,560 --> 02:55:20,760
 of other property, nor significantly diminish or impair property values within the immediate

2275
02:55:20,760 --> 02:55:21,760
 vicinity.

2276
02:55:21,760 --> 02:55:24,800
 So, this alone should make you vote no to the zoning change request.

2277
02:55:24,800 --> 02:55:31,760
 And like I said, I'm not opposed to development going in, but not in form of a four story

2278
02:55:31,760 --> 02:55:36,560
 or higher building, or something that will impact my property value and quality of life,

2279
02:55:36,560 --> 02:55:37,560
 sir, gentlemen.

2280
02:55:37,560 --> 02:55:38,560
 Thank you.

2281
02:55:38,560 --> 02:55:45,120
 - Thank you very much.

2282
02:55:45,120 --> 02:55:48,240
 Next will be Court Higgins, followed by Latham Jones.

2283
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:52,720
 If you could just state your name and address for the record, you have four minutes.

2284
02:55:52,720 --> 02:55:57,080
 - Court Higgins, 4951 Kyle O'Trail.

2285
02:55:57,080 --> 02:56:00,360
 I'm not 200 feet from this property, I am this property.

2286
02:56:00,360 --> 02:56:04,240
 And I back up right in the middle of this property, on it, as my wife showed you on

2287
02:56:04,240 --> 02:56:05,240
 there.

2288
02:56:05,240 --> 02:56:08,080
 I apologize, y'all, I'm not here in uniform to impress y'all, I just came from a funeral

2289
02:56:08,080 --> 02:56:12,400
 from another retired firefighter, so I got here as soon as I could.

2290
02:56:12,400 --> 02:56:18,720
 I wanna talk about just, this apartment complex is gonna reduce my property value.

2291
02:56:18,720 --> 02:56:23,720
 As everybody else in this county, our property values keep being skyrocketed by Denton County

2292
02:56:23,720 --> 02:56:27,360
 and the way things are being bought and sold around here.

2293
02:56:27,360 --> 02:56:28,360
 And that's all well and fine.

2294
02:56:28,360 --> 02:56:32,340
 I go and argue every year, my property value, they keep going up with it.

2295
02:56:32,340 --> 02:56:34,800
 I keep fighting it, trying to drive it down.

2296
02:56:34,800 --> 02:56:40,680
 And one day, I'm gonna get to a point where I am gonna wanna move or try to sell, and

2297
02:56:40,680 --> 02:56:43,880
 this is gonna take out a major part of my value that I've earned.

2298
02:56:43,880 --> 02:56:49,740
 I built that house with me and my daughter on it, and I don't expect I'll get my value

2299
02:56:49,740 --> 02:56:53,320
 out of it for what I've got into it because of this.

2300
02:56:53,320 --> 02:56:57,480
 As far as some other things, best, and I could be wrong about this, to the best of my knowledge,

2301
02:56:57,480 --> 02:57:04,200
 as far as 377, there's no public plans, except maybe extremely long-range plans for 377 to

2302
02:57:04,200 --> 02:57:06,080
 come down that far right now to be improved.

2303
02:57:06,080 --> 02:57:11,360
 As far as I know, it's gonna stop right now at 1830 and maybe go to vintage when vintage

2304
02:57:11,360 --> 02:57:12,560
 is increased.

2305
02:57:12,560 --> 02:57:16,800
 So you're talking a long time before that infrastructure gets here on 377 to take care

2306
02:57:16,800 --> 02:57:19,640
 of that.

2307
02:57:19,640 --> 02:57:25,640
 As other people have already said, I'm a firefighter, I go on wrecks on there all the time.

2308
02:57:25,640 --> 02:57:29,800
 It's horrible already, and it's not like I'm gonna get a worship by this department in

2309
02:57:29,800 --> 02:57:30,800
 there.

2310
02:57:30,800 --> 02:57:31,800
 So thank you.

2311
02:57:31,800 --> 02:57:32,800
 Thank you.

2312
02:57:32,800 --> 02:57:44,840
 Next is Latham Jones, and then followed by, I believe it's Dr. Talia Wright.

2313
02:57:44,840 --> 02:57:46,280
 Good evening, Commissioners.

2314
02:57:46,280 --> 02:57:47,280
 My name's Latham Jones.

2315
02:57:47,280 --> 02:57:52,840
 I live at 2400 Cavendish Lane in Argyle.

2316
02:57:52,840 --> 02:58:02,680
 And I've been trying to look over the 2030 plan, and it's 415 pages, so I didn't read

2317
02:58:02,680 --> 02:58:03,840
 it all.

2318
02:58:03,840 --> 02:58:11,540
 But I did try to look at the map, and as far as I could tell, I didn't see that future

2319
02:58:11,540 --> 02:58:15,000
 zoning on that map, but maybe that's changed since then.

2320
02:58:15,000 --> 02:58:21,360
 But what it does talk about is a balanced growth and not taking away from a character.

2321
02:58:21,360 --> 02:58:25,720
 And there was a lot about that in there.

2322
02:58:25,720 --> 02:58:33,280
 And I think probably if you look at all the numerous huge apartment complexes that Denton's

2323
02:58:33,280 --> 02:58:39,560
 built just in the last year or two, I think if you're gonna have balance and character

2324
02:58:39,560 --> 02:58:44,320
 and you wanna have all different kinds of places to live and all that, then I mean it

2325
02:58:44,320 --> 02:58:50,360
 seems like the apartments, honestly for now, it seems like they would have met the need.

2326
02:58:50,360 --> 02:58:59,940
 You know, I could be wrong, but as far as the, oh, I was gonna break something up on

2327
02:58:59,940 --> 02:59:05,040
 the sewer that's supposed to be sufficient for that.

2328
02:59:05,040 --> 02:59:08,120
 You know, we live in a whole neighborhood that surrounds that, and we're in the city

2329
02:59:08,120 --> 02:59:17,560
 of Denton, and we're still on septic, so you know, I mean, I don't know, and so it seems

2330
02:59:17,560 --> 02:59:21,680
 like we would get sewer maybe before that.

2331
02:59:21,680 --> 02:59:27,040
 And then on the schools, you know, I think that's a big thing because I think most of

2332
02:59:27,040 --> 02:59:30,200
 the people live in Argyle because of the school.

2333
02:59:30,200 --> 02:59:34,520
 And I have two kids that went all the way from kindergarten through high school there,

2334
02:59:34,520 --> 02:59:41,400
 and I think the formula that they use for Denton schools I'm pretty sure has no correlation

2335
02:59:41,400 --> 02:59:43,440
 whatsoever to Argyle schools.

2336
02:59:43,440 --> 02:59:50,400
 You know, I don't know, I think Denton's up to five high schools, four, five high schools?

2337
02:59:50,400 --> 02:59:55,840
 Anyway, you know, there's one in Argyle, and I think probably the number of the people

2338
02:59:55,840 --> 03:00:00,000
 that will live in the apartments instead of being North Texas students or something are

2339
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:01,000
 just single families.

2340
03:00:01,000 --> 03:00:03,720
 I mean, I think they're gonna have kids because they go to Argyle schools.

2341
03:00:03,720 --> 03:00:05,840
 I think that's gonna be the attraction.

2342
03:00:05,840 --> 03:00:12,160
 So it's gonna change things quite a bit, but and I think they're building schools and adding

2343
03:00:12,160 --> 03:00:14,640
 portables and they're doing everything as fast as they can.

2344
03:00:14,640 --> 03:00:16,600
 I just don't think they can handle it right now.

2345
03:00:16,600 --> 03:00:24,280
 So you know, I know it's gonna develop along 377 eventually, and I mean, I would even suggest

2346
03:00:24,280 --> 03:00:27,960
 I'm sure there's gonna, you know, hopefully there'll be a little bit of retail and a little,

2347
03:00:27,960 --> 03:00:33,800
 you know, I don't know what, but I think probably as Commissioner Smith said, the density is

2348
03:00:33,800 --> 03:00:37,080
 just kind of wrong right there right now.

2349
03:00:37,080 --> 03:00:38,080
 Thank you very much.

2350
03:00:38,080 --> 03:00:46,440
 Dr. Plainright, if you could just state your name and address for the record and the next

2351
03:00:46,440 --> 03:00:50,120
 one will be Sam Slovak.

2352
03:00:50,120 --> 03:00:52,360
 My name is Talena Wright.

2353
03:00:52,360 --> 03:00:57,920
 My residence is 2016 Walden Boulevard in Flower Mound, Texas.

2354
03:00:57,920 --> 03:01:05,160
 I am the Argyle School Superintendent and as the Argyle School Superintendent, I want you

2355
03:01:05,160 --> 03:01:13,760
 to be aware of the concerns and the impact that rezoning and initial zoning and use classification

2356
03:01:13,760 --> 03:01:19,120
 at Brush Creek in 377 is going to have on Argyle ISD.

2357
03:01:19,120 --> 03:01:25,120
 You are aware that the property is in Denton, but it's in Argyle ISD.

2358
03:01:25,120 --> 03:01:30,440
 Argyle ISD has parts of five different municipalities in it.

2359
03:01:30,440 --> 03:01:38,100
 The main concerns that I have regarding the rezoning and initial zoning and use classification,

2360
03:01:38,100 --> 03:01:45,480
 which would allow a phase one, 256 unit complex and a phase two, 100 unit complex for a total

2361
03:01:45,480 --> 03:01:53,240
 of 356 units are regarding capacity in the AISD schools and transportation challenges.

2362
03:01:53,240 --> 03:01:59,240
 Repeating, capacity and transportation challenges within the schools as well as not meeting

2363
03:01:59,240 --> 03:02:05,000
 the requirement of the Denton growth plan, which states that the goal is to keep growth

2364
03:02:05,000 --> 03:02:06,000
 centralized.

2365
03:02:06,000 --> 03:02:10,280
 Building apartments outside the city does not centralize the growth.

2366
03:02:10,280 --> 03:02:14,240
 We're a 4A school district with 3,452 students.

2367
03:02:14,240 --> 03:02:18,040
 Many of the students are transported each day by bus.

2368
03:02:18,040 --> 03:02:23,880
 There are 20 routes currently that travel a portion of 377 each day in the morning and

2369
03:02:23,880 --> 03:02:25,840
 again in the afternoon.

2370
03:02:25,840 --> 03:02:29,600
 There are four midday routes daily.

2371
03:02:29,600 --> 03:02:35,160
 Five routes travel on or near Brush Creek in the morning and again in the afternoon.

2372
03:02:35,160 --> 03:02:46,040
 There are 1,667 registered riders in the morning and 1,712 registered riders in the afternoon.

2373
03:02:46,040 --> 03:02:53,920
 The apartment complex could bring over 500 cars, even up to 700 cars into the area.

2374
03:02:53,920 --> 03:02:59,000
 I did hear tonight what the percentage was on one bedroom, two bedroom, and three bedroom.

2375
03:02:59,000 --> 03:03:02,720
 I had not heard that up until tonight.

2376
03:03:02,720 --> 03:03:07,680
 The growth in Argyle ISD is currently over 11% a year.

2377
03:03:07,680 --> 03:03:10,640
 It's considered a fast growth school district.

2378
03:03:10,640 --> 03:03:18,400
 In 2017, the voters passed a bond, but the third elementary will not even be possibly

2379
03:03:18,400 --> 03:03:23,320
 ready before 22 or maybe even 23.

2380
03:03:23,320 --> 03:03:27,700
 We have to sell the third issue of the bonds in order to build it.

2381
03:03:27,700 --> 03:03:32,080
 The middle school and the high school are scheduled to flip in 21, but we just got the

2382
03:03:32,080 --> 03:03:39,640
 building permit last Friday for that construction, so it may not be ready in the fall of 21.

2383
03:03:39,640 --> 03:03:46,280
 The district's facilities cannot accommodate the number of students that a 356 unit apartment

2384
03:03:46,280 --> 03:03:47,560
 would bring.

2385
03:03:47,560 --> 03:03:55,280
 This number could be anywhere up around 175, even up to 250 students.

2386
03:03:55,280 --> 03:03:59,480
 It's clearly obvious that with the number of students that Argyle already has, the limited

2387
03:03:59,480 --> 03:04:04,880
 and crowded facilities and the number of developments already approved, Argyle's not ready for this

2388
03:04:04,880 --> 03:04:05,880
 kind of change.

2389
03:04:05,880 --> 03:04:08,480
 I wasn't asked how we figured the yield.

2390
03:04:08,480 --> 03:04:11,480
 I will be glad to answer that question for anyone.

2391
03:04:11,480 --> 03:04:17,320
 Harvest yield has gone as high as one student per residence.

2392
03:04:17,320 --> 03:04:21,000
 Harvest has 2,720 lots.

2393
03:04:21,000 --> 03:04:23,120
 That's one of our biggest developments.

2394
03:04:23,120 --> 03:04:26,320
 Canyon Falls, 1,240 lots.

2395
03:04:26,320 --> 03:04:35,160
 Trailwood Terrace, 310, Lakes of Argyle, 138, the Oaks, 108, 1590, Waterbrook, 265, Pepper

2396
03:04:35,160 --> 03:04:38,680
 Creek, 50, Montecino, 199.

2397
03:04:38,680 --> 03:04:41,880
 Those are already all approved.

2398
03:04:41,880 --> 03:04:49,760
 Right now the Argyle ISD cannot handle this from a capacity standpoint and from a transportation

2399
03:04:49,760 --> 03:04:50,880
 standpoint.

2400
03:04:50,880 --> 03:04:51,880
 Thank you.

2401
03:04:51,880 --> 03:04:54,880
 I appreciate your listening.

2402
03:04:54,880 --> 03:05:03,760
 Dr. Wright, we actually have a question for you.

2403
03:05:03,760 --> 03:05:08,480
 Dr. Wright, could you come back up?

2404
03:05:08,480 --> 03:05:09,480
 Just one second, Mr. Slovak.

2405
03:05:09,480 --> 03:05:10,480
 Commissioner Smith.

2406
03:05:10,480 --> 03:05:11,480
 Thank you, Chair.

2407
03:05:11,480 --> 03:05:17,440
 I asked Cindy earlier about the calculation that the Dent ISD uses and they said 0.23

2408
03:05:17,440 --> 03:05:20,160
 students per unit in a multi-family unit.

2409
03:05:20,160 --> 03:05:21,560
 What is Argyle ISD's calculations?

2410
03:05:21,560 --> 03:05:23,560
 I'm not even mentioning it by development.

2411
03:05:23,560 --> 03:05:24,560
 Do you guys have a standard?

2412
03:05:24,560 --> 03:05:27,320
 Can you speak into the mic, please?

2413
03:05:27,320 --> 03:05:30,360
 It depends on which development that you're talking about.

2414
03:05:30,360 --> 03:05:36,440
 Does Argyle ISD, I guess, have a standard or is it just decided by development?

2415
03:05:36,440 --> 03:05:40,000
 The demographer figures it by the development.

2416
03:05:40,000 --> 03:05:47,400
 For example, in harvest, which I just read how many homes, there's like 2,740 lots there.

2417
03:05:47,400 --> 03:05:52,760
 That yield has gone as high as 1.0 for us now, 1.0.

2418
03:05:52,760 --> 03:05:55,200
 That's an unheard of yield.

2419
03:05:55,200 --> 03:05:58,260
 There's no specific one-time formula.

2420
03:05:58,260 --> 03:06:00,520
 It's based on the size of the home.

2421
03:06:00,520 --> 03:06:04,720
 It's based on how many homes that you're putting on an acre.

2422
03:06:04,720 --> 03:06:10,280
 If you're putting one home on 0.5 acre, then the yield is less.

2423
03:06:10,280 --> 03:06:17,600
 The yield at Montalcino is much less than harvest, but the yield at the Yokes is 0.6.

2424
03:06:17,600 --> 03:06:18,600
 It differs.

2425
03:06:18,600 --> 03:06:19,600
 Okay.

2426
03:06:19,600 --> 03:06:20,600
 I just didn't know if the ISD had a standard.

2427
03:06:20,600 --> 03:06:22,600
 Canyon Falls is 0.83 right now.

2428
03:06:22,600 --> 03:06:23,600
 Okay.

2429
03:06:23,600 --> 03:06:24,600
 I just didn't know if the ISD had a standard.

2430
03:06:24,600 --> 03:06:25,600
 So thank you.

2431
03:06:25,600 --> 03:06:26,600
 I appreciate it.

2432
03:06:26,600 --> 03:06:31,640
 Mr. Slovak, if you could just say your name and I just...

2433
03:06:31,640 --> 03:06:36,540
 I'm Sam Slovak, I live at 4905 Argyle Lane.

2434
03:06:36,540 --> 03:06:43,120
 The proposal for this zoning change before this committee is to really to force a high-density,

2435
03:06:43,120 --> 03:06:49,640
 low-income, multi-story apartment complex with a company commercial strip among the

2436
03:06:49,640 --> 03:06:54,800
 several prestigious neighborhoods in Denton, the city of Denton.

2437
03:06:54,800 --> 03:07:07,600
 The average home in these three areas is $600,000, and to dump a large apartment complex as being

2438
03:07:07,600 --> 03:07:13,000
 talked about will have irreparable damage to the value of these homes and the quality

2439
03:07:13,000 --> 03:07:15,360
 of life in these neighborhoods.

2440
03:07:15,360 --> 03:07:22,120
 This Denton 2030 plan, in my humble opinion, is seriously flawed in assuming the need for

2441
03:07:22,120 --> 03:07:29,600
 mixed commercial and multi-family residential development among this area of very prestigious

2442
03:07:29,600 --> 03:07:34,000
 rural neighborhoods in southwest Denton.

2443
03:07:34,000 --> 03:07:41,560
 I doubt that the members of this planning committee, nor the staff members, or the city

2444
03:07:41,560 --> 03:07:51,920
 council members would welcome the desolation of their homes by an abutment of a facility

2445
03:07:51,920 --> 03:07:55,480
 such as being proposed here.

2446
03:07:55,480 --> 03:08:02,820
 This along with the fact that the city has proposed to put a six-lane highway down Brush

2447
03:08:02,820 --> 03:08:14,160
 Creek represents really a malevolent attack on the neighborhoods that we live in.

2448
03:08:14,160 --> 03:08:22,640
 The platitudes in your 2030 plan touting conservation development that retains the rural character

2449
03:08:22,640 --> 03:08:30,080
 and protects the open space and greenways and enhances value rings very hollow in the

2450
03:08:30,080 --> 03:08:33,240
 platitudes that are in that plan.

2451
03:08:33,240 --> 03:08:39,600
 I and many in this room implore you to reject this zoning change.

2452
03:08:39,600 --> 03:08:47,040
 Do not destroy our neighborhoods and I, for one, will make clear to every member on this

2453
03:08:47,040 --> 03:08:54,520
 council of this body and the members of the city council to reject this proposal.

2454
03:08:54,520 --> 03:09:02,600
 It is ill-conceived and does not add quality stability for our neighborhoods.

2455
03:09:02,600 --> 03:09:10,000
 Thank you, we have a question for you, sir.

2456
03:09:10,000 --> 03:09:12,360
 We do have a question for you, Commissioner Pernetta.

2457
03:09:12,360 --> 03:09:15,560
 It wasn't so much a question, I just wanted to make sure that everyone in the room was

2458
03:09:15,560 --> 03:09:20,640
 aware that we had already discussed with the developer the idea of going back and coming

2459
03:09:20,640 --> 03:09:25,080
 back with something more suited to the community.

2460
03:09:25,080 --> 03:09:28,000
 That was basically just the point I wanted to make real quick.

2461
03:09:28,000 --> 03:09:29,480
 Thank you, Commissioner Pernetta.

2462
03:09:29,480 --> 03:09:37,880
 The next is Sharon Cox, followed by, I'm going to say Denny Cox, but it could be Dennis.

2463
03:09:37,880 --> 03:09:46,560
 If you could just state your name and address for the record, you have four minutes.

2464
03:09:46,560 --> 03:09:47,560
 Good evening.

2465
03:09:47,560 --> 03:09:54,320
 My name is Sharon Cox and we have lived in the city of Denton at 8008 Wood Creek Circle

2466
03:09:54,320 --> 03:09:55,880
 for more than 28 years.

2467
03:09:55,880 --> 03:10:01,720
 We built our house in the city of Denton because we love the area and the neighborhood and

2468
03:10:01,720 --> 03:10:03,720
 we so appreciate all of you.

2469
03:10:03,720 --> 03:10:08,440
 I know you're highly paid to serve on the Planning and Zoning Commission, so I appreciate

2470
03:10:08,440 --> 03:10:13,820
 all that you do and listening to us, but we feel strongly that a multi-use complex on

2471
03:10:13,820 --> 03:10:20,720
 Brush Creek and 377 will not only devastate our area homes, but all of several and many

2472
03:10:20,720 --> 03:10:24,280
 of Denton's outstanding neighborhoods and our schools.

2473
03:10:24,280 --> 03:10:31,040
 We live in front of the creek that runs parallel to Brush Creek and this zoning proposal will

2474
03:10:31,040 --> 03:10:36,480
 thoroughly, well, it has major, major impact on the flooding of that area.

2475
03:10:36,480 --> 03:10:40,160
 We consistently face flooding.

2476
03:10:40,160 --> 03:10:47,120
 We have had our picnic tables, our trampoline, and even two concrete benches float down the

2477
03:10:47,120 --> 03:10:50,800
 creek into the Country Club and on into Hickory Creek.

2478
03:10:50,800 --> 03:10:54,120
 We have seen it over the 28 years we've lived there.

2479
03:10:54,120 --> 03:10:59,240
 We have seen that creek turn into the Mississippi River at least five or six times.

2480
03:10:59,240 --> 03:11:02,160
 If you need pictures, I can show you photos.

2481
03:11:02,160 --> 03:11:03,880
 We have big rains.

2482
03:11:03,880 --> 03:11:07,840
 Also you need to look at Brush Creek on heavy rains.

2483
03:11:07,840 --> 03:11:10,720
 The people in our neighborhood can testify to this.

2484
03:11:10,720 --> 03:11:16,800
 You cannot cross Brush Creek or drive on Brush Creek because of the flooding that goes from

2485
03:11:16,800 --> 03:11:23,480
 the proposed zoning through to our creek and into our backyards.

2486
03:11:23,480 --> 03:11:28,360
 Also the apartment complex or whatever is on there needs to consider our environment.

2487
03:11:28,360 --> 03:11:29,760
 We have coyotes.

2488
03:11:29,760 --> 03:11:31,680
 We have cranes.

2489
03:11:31,680 --> 03:11:39,040
 We have a neighborhood bobcat that sleeps on my husband's track and raccoons and deers

2490
03:11:39,040 --> 03:11:41,960
 and owls and so much more.

2491
03:11:41,960 --> 03:11:46,700
 You need to also consider the environment in one of the prettiest areas of the city

2492
03:11:46,700 --> 03:11:47,880
 of Denton.

2493
03:11:47,880 --> 03:11:49,280
 And again, thank you so much.

2494
03:11:49,280 --> 03:11:50,280
 We appreciate your service.

2495
03:11:50,280 --> 03:11:57,680
 Thank you.

2496
03:11:57,680 --> 03:12:03,400
 Next is Dennis Cox, followed by Dick Shan House.

2497
03:12:03,400 --> 03:12:04,400
 I'm Dennis Cox.

2498
03:12:04,400 --> 03:12:09,320
 I live at 8008 Wood Creek Circle, Argyle.

2499
03:12:09,320 --> 03:12:13,800
 One of the houses that's in the area that required written notice, I think there's five

2500
03:12:13,800 --> 03:12:19,840
 houses that required written notice, and I received mine and I almost threw it away because

2501
03:12:19,840 --> 03:12:22,840
 it said "Dear Occupant."

2502
03:12:22,840 --> 03:12:25,960
 I think that's how they see us as occupants.

2503
03:12:25,960 --> 03:12:28,480
 They don't see us as family members.

2504
03:12:28,480 --> 03:12:31,000
 They don't see us as citizens in the community.

2505
03:12:31,000 --> 03:12:36,520
 They see us as a stepping stone for them to overcome, to build their complex and then

2506
03:12:36,520 --> 03:12:40,280
 move to another city and another development.

2507
03:12:40,280 --> 03:12:44,060
 And I think they saw y'all as pawns until tonight.

2508
03:12:44,060 --> 03:12:46,160
 And I appreciate all of y'all's work.

2509
03:12:46,160 --> 03:12:50,060
 I appreciate y'all listening to all of us and everything.

2510
03:12:50,060 --> 03:12:54,680
 I know it's probably been a pretty grueling day for you, but I appreciate it.

2511
03:12:54,680 --> 03:12:57,680
 Thank you.

2512
03:12:57,680 --> 03:13:01,560
 Thank you.

2513
03:13:01,560 --> 03:13:14,480
 Next is Dick Shan House, followed by David Grineer.

2514
03:13:14,480 --> 03:13:15,640
 My name is Dick Shan House.

2515
03:13:15,640 --> 03:13:23,960
 I live at 8001 Wood Creek Circle in Argyle, right across the street from Dennis and Sharon.

2516
03:13:23,960 --> 03:13:33,160
 And the speakers tonight have laid out exactly how all of us in that neighborhood feel about

2517
03:13:33,160 --> 03:13:41,920
 how pretty and rural and enjoyable that whole community is out there, that whole area.

2518
03:13:41,920 --> 03:13:47,560
 So I just, I'd like to voice my opposition against an apartment complex coming in to

2519
03:13:47,560 --> 03:13:56,460
 change so much about that rural community from a standpoint of schools and congestion

2520
03:13:56,460 --> 03:14:03,120
 and perhaps increases in crime and traffic.

2521
03:14:03,120 --> 03:14:12,240
 And I'm wondering if regarding the park within a 10 minute walk of the apartment complex,

2522
03:14:12,240 --> 03:14:20,040
 whether those kids walking to that park would have to cross 377 to do it.

2523
03:14:20,040 --> 03:14:24,560
 I yield my time to anybody else who wants to speak in addition to me.

2524
03:14:24,560 --> 03:14:27,000
 And I do appreciate you guys and your time tonight.

2525
03:14:27,000 --> 03:14:28,000
 Thank you.

2526
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:29,000
 Appreciate being here.

2527
03:14:29,000 --> 03:14:30,000
 Thank you.

2528
03:14:30,000 --> 03:14:34,960
 I'm not gonna try again.

2529
03:14:34,960 --> 03:14:35,960
 I assume you're David?

2530
03:14:35,960 --> 03:14:36,960
 Yeah.

2531
03:14:36,960 --> 03:14:37,960
 Perfect.

2532
03:14:37,960 --> 03:14:38,960
 After that will be Linda Puckett.

2533
03:14:38,960 --> 03:14:41,280
 Maybe you can say your name and address for the record.

2534
03:14:41,280 --> 03:14:46,420
 It's David Grineer, 3312 Clubview Drive, and excuse my poor penmanship for the, it's not

2535
03:14:46,420 --> 03:14:48,080
 your fault, it's mine.

2536
03:14:48,080 --> 03:14:50,840
 But thank you for the commission for letting us speak.

2537
03:14:50,840 --> 03:14:57,360
 I'm within the 500 foot area of this development and I'll respect everyone's time just because

2538
03:14:57,360 --> 03:15:02,920
 as you know, people sort of say the same things over and over and over again, so I'll respect

2539
03:15:02,920 --> 03:15:03,920
 that in everyone's time.

2540
03:15:03,920 --> 03:15:08,080
 But I just want to emphasize a couple things and one is what people have been talking about

2541
03:15:08,080 --> 03:15:13,560
 is the nature and the character of that area and the development and that sticking in apartment

2542
03:15:13,560 --> 03:15:18,000
 complex high density housing does not fit with the characteristic of that particular

2543
03:15:18,000 --> 03:15:22,800
 area, nor the commercial development along 377 that might go in.

2544
03:15:22,800 --> 03:15:28,000
 No disrespect to gray cuts and nail salons, but that kind of commercial development, there's

2545
03:15:28,000 --> 03:15:33,360
 plenty of that around and that definitely detracts from the area and from why people

2546
03:15:33,360 --> 03:15:37,040
 have moved to that part of Argyle/Denton.

2547
03:15:37,040 --> 03:15:42,000
 And also just want to, again, talking about the schools, and we talked about the number

2548
03:15:42,000 --> 03:15:45,880
 of students and the over capacity of the Argyle School District, I just want to mention one

2549
03:15:45,880 --> 03:15:50,600
 thing, and I'm not an expert on this, but it's the pain for those students.

2550
03:15:50,600 --> 03:15:57,040
 There is a local burden for, the local tax rate for sending kids to the public schools.

2551
03:15:57,040 --> 03:16:00,840
 The tax rate that's in the packet that's going to be generated by this complex, you

2552
03:16:00,840 --> 03:16:03,720
 know, based on estimates of the number of kids that might come out of this complex and

2553
03:16:03,720 --> 03:16:09,200
 go to the schools, is not going to, it's not going to sustain those kids and the portion

2554
03:16:09,200 --> 03:16:13,280
 of those taxes that are going to go and pay for the kids to go to Argyle School District,

2555
03:16:13,280 --> 03:16:16,700
 which means that the burden is picked up by the taxpayers of Argyle.

2556
03:16:16,700 --> 03:16:21,800
 And we're a rural community where our tax base is property tax, individual property

2557
03:16:21,800 --> 03:16:24,480
 tax, and not business tax that pays for that.

2558
03:16:24,480 --> 03:16:29,560
 So that's a burden that will be shifted to us, essentially subsidizing the students that

2559
03:16:29,560 --> 03:16:31,160
 come out of the apartment complex.

2560
03:16:31,160 --> 03:16:37,640
 And again, just want to emphasize the potential impact with noise, light, pollution, all those

2561
03:16:37,640 --> 03:16:42,640
 things that go in with high density housing, you know, as well as diminished property values,

2562
03:16:42,640 --> 03:16:47,360
 which a zoning change that would diminish the property values, especially those affected

2563
03:16:47,360 --> 03:16:51,560
 around the surrounding areas, would be, you know, regulatory taking in a way where, you

2564
03:16:51,560 --> 03:16:58,120
 know, the zoning change in itself would directly affect our property values in future sales.

2565
03:16:58,120 --> 03:16:59,120
 Thank you for your time.

2566
03:16:59,120 --> 03:17:00,120
 Thank you.

2567
03:17:00,120 --> 03:17:01,120
 Linda Puckett here.

2568
03:17:01,120 --> 03:17:14,620
 Following her will be Jacqueline Wendell.

2569
03:17:14,620 --> 03:17:15,620
 My name's Linda Puckett.

2570
03:17:15,620 --> 03:17:17,840
 I live on Fincher Road in Argyle.

2571
03:17:17,840 --> 03:17:21,400
 I want to appreciate your thoughtful consideration on this.

2572
03:17:21,400 --> 03:17:24,800
 I am somewhat disappointed this is not going to a vote.

2573
03:17:24,800 --> 03:17:33,600
 I would appreciate a denial at this level in order to, I believe, make AS have the City

2574
03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:35,040
 Council have a super majority.

2575
03:17:35,040 --> 03:17:37,600
 I think that was the most appropriate action.

2576
03:17:37,600 --> 03:17:44,840
 I think that it's really kind of depriving everyone of their time, but I do appreciate

2577
03:17:44,840 --> 03:17:45,840
 everyone's comments.

2578
03:17:45,840 --> 03:17:55,240
 I would like to kind of go on what Mr. Smith said about how the yields on non-subsidized

2579
03:17:55,240 --> 03:18:02,120
 apartments are very different in Denton as opposed to what they would be in an apartment

2580
03:18:02,120 --> 03:18:03,120
 in Argyle.

2581
03:18:03,120 --> 03:18:07,200
 And the fact is that we don't have any information on apartments in Argyle because there's no

2582
03:18:07,200 --> 03:18:09,080
 apartments in Argyle.

2583
03:18:09,080 --> 03:18:16,680
 So even in your development plan, which seems to be the Bible, it says that 25 percent of

2584
03:18:16,680 --> 03:18:20,960
 Denton's population is between the ages of 18 to 24.

2585
03:18:20,960 --> 03:18:28,840
 Also single childless people are attracted to Denton because of its vibrant downtown

2586
03:18:28,840 --> 03:18:32,360
 nightlife and scene, and there is a lot of industry here.

2587
03:18:32,360 --> 03:18:38,400
 Denton County is one of the biggest, well, the biggest employers.

2588
03:18:38,400 --> 03:18:39,880
 I'd also like to talk about the yields.

2589
03:18:39,880 --> 03:18:47,840
 Now, the yields are very high in Argyle because it's a very desirable school district.

2590
03:18:47,840 --> 03:18:53,440
 Part of the reason why the yields, though, are still fairly low is people have children.

2591
03:18:53,440 --> 03:18:54,440
 They graduate.

2592
03:18:54,440 --> 03:18:57,560
 They stay in their homes because they are homeowners.

2593
03:18:57,560 --> 03:18:58,760
 They have roots there.

2594
03:18:58,760 --> 03:19:00,120
 They have neighbors there.

2595
03:19:00,120 --> 03:19:04,120
 And I'm not denigrating people that live in apartments, but you rarely get to know your

2596
03:19:04,120 --> 03:19:05,500
 neighbors in apartments.

2597
03:19:05,500 --> 03:19:10,520
 They are a more transitory population.

2598
03:19:10,520 --> 03:19:15,840
 You are not going to have people kind of age out and retire in the home and not have children

2599
03:19:15,840 --> 03:19:17,200
 in the school district.

2600
03:19:17,200 --> 03:19:22,660
 I think that it's laughable that he says it's going to be 75 percent one bedroom.

2601
03:19:22,660 --> 03:19:29,160
 Why would you ever want to live in the middle of nowhere, nowhere close to a grocery store,

2602
03:19:29,160 --> 03:19:33,920
 a gas station, anywhere to have anything done?

2603
03:19:33,920 --> 03:19:39,880
 You live in Argyle because it's rural, because you like trees and space, and it's a great

2604
03:19:39,880 --> 03:19:41,280
 school district.

2605
03:19:41,280 --> 03:19:48,280
 That apartment complex, it was going to be a magnet for people to come to this ISD and

2606
03:19:48,280 --> 03:19:51,480
 75 percent one bedroom.

2607
03:19:51,480 --> 03:19:56,760
 I don't think there's any apartment complex and didn't at 75 percent one bedroom.

2608
03:19:56,760 --> 03:20:03,800
 I'd also like to point out that Cindy Jackson used the local government code as a limiting.

2609
03:20:03,800 --> 03:20:09,520
 She said that they were limited to notify people in the ETJ right next to this development.

2610
03:20:09,520 --> 03:20:11,360
 That is not correct.

2611
03:20:11,360 --> 03:20:17,080
 Local government code in that section is giving the minimum standards for notification.

2612
03:20:17,080 --> 03:20:22,000
 I don't even live near this complex, but it offends me that people that would butt right

2613
03:20:22,000 --> 03:20:26,640
 up to it just because they're in the ETJ were not notified.

2614
03:20:26,640 --> 03:20:31,560
 She's talking out of both sides of her mouth when she says that we have to notify within

2615
03:20:31,560 --> 03:20:37,800
 200 feet within the city limits only, but as a courtesy did it 500 feet.

2616
03:20:37,800 --> 03:20:38,800
 Which is it?

2617
03:20:38,800 --> 03:20:40,760
 Are you limited by the local government code or are you not?

2618
03:20:40,760 --> 03:20:45,320
 The people in the ETJ deserve notification too that are next to this.

2619
03:20:45,320 --> 03:20:51,760
 I'd also like to say too that this was R1.

2620
03:20:51,760 --> 03:20:53,980
 This is one dwelling per acre.

2621
03:20:53,980 --> 03:20:56,440
 We just had a bond election in Argyle that barely passed.

2622
03:20:56,440 --> 03:21:00,200
 It passed by under 50 votes.

2623
03:21:00,200 --> 03:21:06,600
 That land was projected to have 18 families there and to even increase it by a planned

2624
03:21:06,600 --> 03:21:14,040
 development to as low as 100 or 200 is going to be an undue burden on the school district

2625
03:21:14,040 --> 03:21:26,680
 and it's just not fitting with ... Thank you.

2626
03:21:26,680 --> 03:21:30,640
 This is Jacqueline Wendel followed by David Wendel.

2627
03:21:30,640 --> 03:21:31,640
 Do you need to state your name and address?

2628
03:21:31,640 --> 03:21:32,640
 You have four minutes.

2629
03:21:32,640 --> 03:21:33,640
 Yes, sir.

2630
03:21:33,640 --> 03:21:38,120
 My name is Jacqueline Wendel and I'm a resident at 4981 Kiowa Trail located directly behind

2631
03:21:38,120 --> 03:21:39,120
 the property of interest.

2632
03:21:39,120 --> 03:21:42,040
 I'm going to read the email that I sent to Cindy today.

2633
03:21:42,040 --> 03:21:46,640
 A year and a half ago my husband and I moved our family into this house thinking it would

2634
03:21:46,640 --> 03:21:48,260
 be our forever home.

2635
03:21:48,260 --> 03:21:51,920
 We came from the busy and overpopulated city of Plano and we're related to find a property

2636
03:21:51,920 --> 03:21:53,840
 near the rural town of Argyle.

2637
03:21:53,840 --> 03:21:55,920
 It had everything we were looking for in a home.

2638
03:21:55,920 --> 03:22:00,640
 A large lot located on a quiet cul-de-sac in the Argyle school district and most importantly

2639
03:22:00,640 --> 03:22:03,560
 it provided us with the privacy we were denied in Plano.

2640
03:22:03,560 --> 03:22:07,820
 Fast forward to a couple of months ago when we first heard about the proposed rezoning

2641
03:22:07,820 --> 03:22:09,800
 of the land directly behind us.

2642
03:22:09,800 --> 03:22:13,600
 On social media, might I add, because we are not within city limits so they're not required

2643
03:22:13,600 --> 03:22:17,600
 by law to notify us of what's going on even though we'll be one of several houses impacted

2644
03:22:17,600 --> 03:22:19,800
 the most by the change.

2645
03:22:19,800 --> 03:22:20,800
 Apartments.

2646
03:22:20,800 --> 03:22:24,840
 The developers want to build two to four story apartments less than 100 yards from our home,

2647
03:22:24,840 --> 03:22:28,360
 from where our children play, from where our farm animals are housed.

2648
03:22:28,360 --> 03:22:31,280
 People will be in and out all hours of the day and night, some of whom will have the

2649
03:22:31,280 --> 03:22:35,280
 ability to look into our yard with who knows what intentions, invading our privacy and

2650
03:22:35,280 --> 03:22:37,440
 potentially risking our safety.

2651
03:22:37,440 --> 03:22:40,880
 The thoughts that have raced through my mind over the past two months make me sick to my

2652
03:22:40,880 --> 03:22:41,880
 stomach.

2653
03:22:41,880 --> 03:22:45,360
 The things that my husband and I worked so hard for just blatantly stomped on.

2654
03:22:45,360 --> 03:22:47,240
 For financial gain of course.

2655
03:22:47,240 --> 03:22:50,420
 We made a lifetime investment when buying this property and I promise you we would have

2656
03:22:50,420 --> 03:22:55,360
 never bought this house knowing that the apartments could be built behind it.

2657
03:22:55,360 --> 03:22:57,400
 But then why would that have ever been a concern?

2658
03:22:57,400 --> 03:23:00,240
 The property is owned for single family homes on acre lots.

2659
03:23:00,240 --> 03:23:04,000
 You're changing the rules of the game and quite frankly it's not fair.

2660
03:23:04,000 --> 03:23:07,000
 And now the thought of selling our forever home has crossed my mind but you know what's

2661
03:23:07,000 --> 03:23:08,000
 really upsetting?

2662
03:23:08,000 --> 03:23:11,920
 It's doubtful that we would recoup our investment because our property value will be significantly

2663
03:23:11,920 --> 03:23:14,480
 diminished in the event that this rezoning is approved.

2664
03:23:14,480 --> 03:23:17,440
 So it's a no win situation for us whether we stay or leave.

2665
03:23:17,440 --> 03:23:21,960
 But let me step off my soap box for a moment and talk about, or should I say reiterate,

2666
03:23:21,960 --> 03:23:25,120
 some of the other problems that will come from this wonderful project.

2667
03:23:25,120 --> 03:23:27,640
 These proposed apartments will feed into Argyle schools.

2668
03:23:27,640 --> 03:23:32,280
 The school districts are known for its exceptional academics as well as its low student to teacher

2669
03:23:32,280 --> 03:23:33,280
 ratio.

2670
03:23:33,280 --> 03:23:36,480
 Argyle is already growing at a rapid rate and struggling to accommodate the growth in

2671
03:23:36,480 --> 03:23:38,080
 its student population.

2672
03:23:38,080 --> 03:23:41,280
 How is it going to handle an immediate influx of potentially hundreds of children when it's

2673
03:23:41,280 --> 03:23:43,240
 essentially already maxed out?

2674
03:23:43,240 --> 03:23:44,760
 And what about police and fire?

2675
03:23:44,760 --> 03:23:47,980
 It currently takes 10 to 15 minutes for a 911 call to be answered in this area.

2676
03:23:47,980 --> 03:23:52,040
 How are they going to deal with a sudden increase in population and call volume?

2677
03:23:52,040 --> 03:23:53,480
 Or the traffic?

2678
03:23:53,480 --> 03:23:56,580
 The roads in Argyle and South Dent need improvement as is.

2679
03:23:56,580 --> 03:23:59,680
 There are streets located in multiple jurisdictions needing repair and widening.

2680
03:23:59,680 --> 03:24:03,160
 So what happens when there are hundreds of more cars on the roads that can hardly accommodate

2681
03:24:03,160 --> 03:24:05,240
 the current traffic in the region?

2682
03:24:05,240 --> 03:24:08,740
 This rezoning will bring nothing to the area but more crime, more traffic and more people

2683
03:24:08,740 --> 03:24:11,660
 than the city and the Argyle school district can handle.

2684
03:24:11,660 --> 03:24:13,640
 If you ask me it's an easy decision.

2685
03:24:13,640 --> 03:24:17,220
 Try the rezoning and the potential for brush creek apartments and let this area continue

2686
03:24:17,220 --> 03:24:21,040
 to be a quiet small community that prides itself on beautiful rural character and small

2687
03:24:21,040 --> 03:24:22,360
 town lifestyle.

2688
03:24:22,360 --> 03:24:25,360
 Thank you.

2689
03:24:25,360 --> 03:24:29,420
 Thank you.

2690
03:24:29,420 --> 03:24:32,760
 Next is David Wendell followed by Vince Schreiber.

2691
03:24:32,760 --> 03:24:39,400
 I need you to state your name and address for the record.

2692
03:24:39,400 --> 03:24:40,400
 David Wendell.

2693
03:24:40,400 --> 03:24:46,440
 I live with my wife at 4981 Kiowa trail.

2694
03:24:46,440 --> 03:24:50,240
 My house backs up to the proposed property.

2695
03:24:50,240 --> 03:24:54,340
 I wasn't notified about any of this because they don't have to.

2696
03:24:54,340 --> 03:24:56,120
 Because they don't care about us.

2697
03:24:56,120 --> 03:24:58,320
 This is just a money grab for them.

2698
03:24:58,320 --> 03:25:03,520
 They want to put as much as they can in a small area.

2699
03:25:03,520 --> 03:25:05,680
 They didn't come talk to any of us.

2700
03:25:05,680 --> 03:25:14,080
 I don't know if you all know, but they had to have an informational hearing to let us

2701
03:25:14,080 --> 03:25:15,080
 know about this.

2702
03:25:15,080 --> 03:25:17,680
 The people that showed up, they showed up 30 minutes late to that from wherever they

2703
03:25:17,680 --> 03:25:19,880
 flew in because they don't care.

2704
03:25:19,880 --> 03:25:22,680
 This isn't, these are my neighbors.

2705
03:25:22,680 --> 03:25:23,680
 This is our community.

2706
03:25:23,680 --> 03:25:25,600
 They're not a part of that.

2707
03:25:25,600 --> 03:25:30,520
 And so somebody said earlier that's just how they look at it.

2708
03:25:30,520 --> 03:25:37,160
 I do appreciate y'all being against it, just the idea of it seems silly I know.

2709
03:25:37,160 --> 03:25:39,800
 And I'm glad you all see that.

2710
03:25:39,800 --> 03:25:43,480
 The kind of bummer is, like I work for the Dallas fire department.

2711
03:25:43,480 --> 03:25:47,320
 I had to pay quite a bit of money to be here today because today's my shift.

2712
03:25:47,320 --> 03:25:50,840
 So I don't appreciate that.

2713
03:25:50,840 --> 03:25:53,520
 I don't know how much longer this is going to go on for.

2714
03:25:53,520 --> 03:25:55,820
 It's already been rescheduled a couple times.

2715
03:25:55,820 --> 03:25:57,600
 My wife is super high strung.

2716
03:25:57,600 --> 03:26:03,520
 So just the talk of this ruins my day.

2717
03:26:03,520 --> 03:26:08,280
 So I do appreciate, but I don't want to do this every six weeks.

2718
03:26:08,280 --> 03:26:09,280
 You know what I mean?

2719
03:26:09,280 --> 03:26:13,740
 I have to get a babysitter for my four-year-old and my 18-month-old because I don't want someone

2720
03:26:13,740 --> 03:26:19,120
 to be able to look into my backyard and watch them play.

2721
03:26:19,120 --> 03:26:21,560
 And real quick, I'm not a super smart dude.

2722
03:26:21,560 --> 03:26:27,160
 I don't know about yields and all that kind of stuff, but I'm a lieutenant for the Dallas

2723
03:26:27,160 --> 03:26:28,160
 fire department.

2724
03:26:28,160 --> 03:26:29,160
 I work downtown.

2725
03:26:29,160 --> 03:26:32,600
 I know a couple things about apartments, crime.

2726
03:26:32,600 --> 03:26:36,720
 The majority of violent crime in Dallas is in apartments.

2727
03:26:36,720 --> 03:26:40,180
 That's not where the majority of people live, but that's where the majority of violent crime

2728
03:26:40,180 --> 03:26:41,180
 is.

2729
03:26:41,180 --> 03:26:49,440
 I saw a little blurb up there on station 7, 1.8 miles away, less than eight minutes.

2730
03:26:49,440 --> 03:26:51,240
 Oh, that's awesome.

2731
03:26:51,240 --> 03:26:52,240
 I'm sure they don't know.

2732
03:26:52,240 --> 03:26:55,640
 And you know, it's too bad they didn't come to our street because we have Chief Higgins

2733
03:26:55,640 --> 03:26:56,640
 that lives on our street.

2734
03:26:56,640 --> 03:26:58,400
 He could have told them anything they wanted to know.

2735
03:26:58,400 --> 03:27:01,040
 He's a battalion chief in the city of Denton.

2736
03:27:01,040 --> 03:27:04,800
 If this building caught on fire, he'd be the one directing the firefighters on how to put

2737
03:27:04,800 --> 03:27:05,800
 it out.

2738
03:27:05,800 --> 03:27:07,320
 He's right there at the top.

2739
03:27:07,320 --> 03:27:08,440
 Too bad they didn't come talk to him.

2740
03:27:08,440 --> 03:27:09,680
 He could have answered some questions.

2741
03:27:09,680 --> 03:27:16,880
 But if an apartment caught on fire in Denton, station 7 has one fire engine, one ambulance.

2742
03:27:16,880 --> 03:27:18,080
 So they could be there super quick.

2743
03:27:18,080 --> 03:27:20,560
 They're not going to do anything.

2744
03:27:20,560 --> 03:27:26,440
 Do you know in Dallas, if an apartment catches on fire in Dallas, that's a two-alarm response.

2745
03:27:26,440 --> 03:27:33,600
 Four fire engines, four trucks, three battalion chiefs, a deputy chief, EMS supervisor, an

2746
03:27:33,600 --> 03:27:34,600
 ambulance.

2747
03:27:34,600 --> 03:27:36,880
 That's over 40 people.

2748
03:27:36,880 --> 03:27:42,240
 And it's different cities, but we have NIMS standards and we're not that different.

2749
03:27:42,240 --> 03:27:46,160
 So I'm sure they did do the research, so they might be able to answer that question

2750
03:27:46,160 --> 03:27:51,380
 on what kind of response it would take to get all that to an apartment fire.

2751
03:27:51,380 --> 03:27:52,560
 I don't know.

2752
03:27:52,560 --> 03:27:56,200
 But I think that's pretty much all I got.

2753
03:27:56,200 --> 03:28:00,120
 I appreciate y'all, and I appreciate y'all being against it.

2754
03:28:00,120 --> 03:28:01,760
 Hopefully we don't do this every two months.

2755
03:28:01,760 --> 03:28:11,020
 That's my one thing.

2756
03:28:11,020 --> 03:28:12,020
 Appreciate that.

2757
03:28:12,020 --> 03:28:13,020
 And I appreciate your service.

2758
03:28:13,020 --> 03:28:14,200
 Thank you.

2759
03:28:14,200 --> 03:28:25,400
 Next is Vince Shriver, followed by Kevin Fasciane, station name and address for the record.

2760
03:28:25,400 --> 03:28:27,380
 Vince Shriver, 4990 Kiowa Trails.

2761
03:28:27,380 --> 03:28:31,760
 I'm also in the unincorporated part of Denton, so I did not get the notification on this

2762
03:28:31,760 --> 03:28:32,760
 rezoning.

2763
03:28:32,760 --> 03:28:36,040
 I'm going to go a little bit off script tonight, since everybody's kind of talked a little

2764
03:28:36,040 --> 03:28:41,840
 bit about what my thoughts have been, and again, I want to echo Mr. Smith, thank you

2765
03:28:41,840 --> 03:28:46,440
 so much for your support, Commissioner Smith, Commissioner Pernetta, Commissioner Cole.

2766
03:28:46,440 --> 03:28:52,440
 I appreciate you guys taking a look and assisting the developer and kind of reconsidering how

2767
03:28:52,440 --> 03:28:53,440
 they want to approach this.

2768
03:28:53,440 --> 03:28:57,880
 And that's kind of what I want to go off script and talk a little bit about is I think there's

2769
03:28:57,880 --> 03:29:03,240
 a great opportunity that we are going to see, and everybody in this room knows from my neighbors

2770
03:29:03,240 --> 03:29:06,680
 and everyone, we're going to see growth in the Argyle area.

2771
03:29:06,680 --> 03:29:10,560
 I think it's a great opportunity for this particular property, and as one of my neighbors

2772
03:29:10,560 --> 03:29:14,080
 and I were talking about this evening, it would be a great opportunity for us to be

2773
03:29:14,080 --> 03:29:18,120
 able to walk down somewhere that's got a nice little coffee shop and fits the tranquil nature

2774
03:29:18,120 --> 03:29:21,520
 of the area to be able to say, hey, this is an area we walk our kids down, it becomes

2775
03:29:21,520 --> 03:29:26,800
 a Saturday event, and we get to look at something that one of the developers built, took pride

2776
03:29:26,800 --> 03:29:30,720
 in and said, hey, this is something that I added and added a tremendous amount of value

2777
03:29:30,720 --> 03:29:34,760
 to the area that I'm developing.

2778
03:29:34,760 --> 03:29:39,880
 That seems to be missing at the moment, so I would definitely encourage somehow the developer

2779
03:29:39,880 --> 03:29:45,640
 tonight to take a look at how he could do that, reach out to the local community, take

2780
03:29:45,640 --> 03:29:49,320
 the recommendation by this commission, take the recommendation that we provided during

2781
03:29:49,320 --> 03:29:55,920
 the feedback session that we had, and figure out a way to as a community, because that's

2782
03:29:55,920 --> 03:29:59,240
 really what we're talking about here, not just an apartment complex that they want to

2783
03:29:59,240 --> 03:30:05,200
 drop in on top of our farm animals, on top of where we don't have the infrastructure

2784
03:30:05,200 --> 03:30:08,800
 from the street standpoint, we don't have the infrastructure from the schools contrary

2785
03:30:08,800 --> 03:30:14,840
 to what their reports say, work with the community to come up with a plan that we can all get

2786
03:30:14,840 --> 03:30:19,080
 behind and that when they decide to break ground, the community wants to be there and

2787
03:30:19,080 --> 03:30:22,320
 say, hey, you know what, this is something we all got involved in and we're proud to

2788
03:30:22,320 --> 03:30:24,240
 have you here as one of our partners.

2789
03:30:24,240 --> 03:30:28,360
 Right now, nobody in our community feels that this is a partnership, this is something we

2790
03:30:28,360 --> 03:30:29,920
 want to chase out of our community.

2791
03:30:29,920 --> 03:30:35,560
 There's a prime opportunity here for to change that around if they decide to take that initiative,

2792
03:30:35,560 --> 03:30:41,680
 and I know my community, given that opportunity, we would embrace the right development and

2793
03:30:41,680 --> 03:30:45,580
 we'd embrace the right opportunity to enhance where we live.

2794
03:30:45,580 --> 03:30:49,840
 So thank you.

2795
03:30:49,840 --> 03:30:53,960
 Evening commissioners.

2796
03:30:53,960 --> 03:30:59,480
 Kevin Fassian, 4805 Argyle Lane, and City of Denton.

2797
03:30:59,480 --> 03:31:05,300
 First of all, as a former elected public official, thank you for your service, you're what makes

2798
03:31:05,300 --> 03:31:08,800
 this happen and we truly appreciate your service.

2799
03:31:08,800 --> 03:31:12,120
 In consideration of time, I'm not going to rehash all the points.

2800
03:31:12,120 --> 03:31:17,740
 I will introduce one point I don't know that was brought up yet, and one of the elements

2801
03:31:17,740 --> 03:31:23,280
 in changing the zoning, element number one, is that the use of this land complement the

2802
03:31:23,280 --> 03:31:24,960
 surrounding areas.

2803
03:31:24,960 --> 03:31:29,720
 And given that a vote doesn't appear likely tonight that it'll be postponed, I just ask

2804
03:31:29,720 --> 03:31:36,240
 you to remember that when this is brought up before you again, that clearly you've heard

2805
03:31:36,240 --> 03:31:40,960
 from the community, and whatever use we put to this land, let's make sure it does complement

2806
03:31:40,960 --> 03:31:46,720
 what's already around it, and that we maintain the beauty of this area of Denton and Argyle.

2807
03:31:46,720 --> 03:31:52,760
 Thank you.

2808
03:31:52,760 --> 03:31:56,080
 Next is Judy Folkerson, followed by Gary Davis.

2809
03:31:56,080 --> 03:31:59,080
 Is Judy here?

2810
03:31:59,080 --> 03:32:00,080
 Okay.

2811
03:32:00,080 --> 03:32:02,680
 I'll go on record as you're opposed to this?

2812
03:32:02,680 --> 03:32:04,640
 Yes, sir.

2813
03:32:04,640 --> 03:32:05,640
 Okay.

2814
03:32:05,640 --> 03:32:06,640
 Gary Davis.

2815
03:32:06,640 --> 03:32:07,640
 Is Gary here?

2816
03:32:07,640 --> 03:32:16,720
 Okay, next here will be David Yoder.

2817
03:32:16,720 --> 03:32:17,720
 Thank you, Commissioner.

2818
03:32:17,720 --> 03:32:18,720
 My name's Gary Davis.

2819
03:32:18,720 --> 03:32:25,560
 I live at 970 Brush Creek Road, and what used to be a really nice little road is now going

2820
03:32:25,560 --> 03:32:27,680
 to be a freeway.

2821
03:32:27,680 --> 03:32:31,040
 It seems like all of this falls into build it, and they will come.

2822
03:32:31,040 --> 03:32:37,480
 Well, we're going to put the mobility plans as to come through, and then go across 377

2823
03:32:37,480 --> 03:32:39,280
 to 35W.

2824
03:32:39,280 --> 03:32:41,520
 We understand that.

2825
03:32:41,520 --> 03:32:49,160
 If you look in the ETJ area on the west side of 377, there's a huge number of homes that

2826
03:32:49,160 --> 03:32:54,720
 are already on the plans to be put there, and the reason I know that is my son-in-law's

2827
03:32:54,720 --> 03:32:56,640
 the civil engineer for it.

2828
03:32:56,640 --> 03:33:02,560
 If you just continue on south from that same point, housing tracks after housing tracks.

2829
03:33:02,560 --> 03:33:05,040
 I know you can't do much about that.

2830
03:33:05,040 --> 03:33:08,480
 But then this one starts doubling down.

2831
03:33:08,480 --> 03:33:17,040
 We've got a few things that are facing 377, but we've got an awful lot of apartments,

2832
03:33:17,040 --> 03:33:24,600
 an awful lot of multifamily, and I thank you very much for acknowledging that, the commissioners.

2833
03:33:24,600 --> 03:33:32,800
 I work for the city of Keller, so I'm in these riveting meetings all the time.

2834
03:33:32,800 --> 03:33:40,160
 I heard more consideration given by you fellows than I hope nobody from Keller is watching

2835
03:33:40,160 --> 03:33:44,560
 this tonight.

2836
03:33:44,560 --> 03:33:45,560
 That's my thing.

2837
03:33:45,560 --> 03:33:47,600
 We're being dumped on.

2838
03:33:47,600 --> 03:33:53,640
 They're bringing the six-lane highway through, and I live right on the road.

2839
03:33:53,640 --> 03:33:55,600
 It's going to come up close to our front door.

2840
03:33:55,600 --> 03:33:59,880
 Right now, people in the neighborhood such as Cox's, they walk it every day.

2841
03:33:59,880 --> 03:34:02,960
 They walk by my house and stroll up and down there.

2842
03:34:02,960 --> 03:34:04,960
 That's going to go away.

2843
03:34:04,960 --> 03:34:10,560
 Used to let my grandkids ride the golf cart up and down the road and over on the Kyle

2844
03:34:10,560 --> 03:34:11,560
 Trail.

2845
03:34:11,560 --> 03:34:13,560
 That's going away.

2846
03:34:13,560 --> 03:34:20,160
 All the housing and all of the people that are going to go zooming up, you know the drill.

2847
03:34:20,160 --> 03:34:24,960
 I know you got the message, and I just appreciate you considering all of that.

2848
03:34:24,960 --> 03:34:29,480
 I think it can wait.

2849
03:34:29,480 --> 03:34:33,920
 Coming back in six weeks, again, living in this environment, I don't know what that'll

2850
03:34:33,920 --> 03:34:35,800
 do for you.

2851
03:34:35,800 --> 03:34:41,120
 I would rather see you take 90 days and get with us and come up with a better plan.

2852
03:34:41,120 --> 03:34:46,160
 At least they wouldn't be told, "Hit the road," even though that's what we'd like

2853
03:34:46,160 --> 03:34:47,160
 to say.

2854
03:34:47,160 --> 03:34:52,400
 I think it's a longer process than what you're giving it.

2855
03:34:52,400 --> 03:34:53,400
 Thank you for your time.

2856
03:34:53,400 --> 03:34:57,680
 No disrespect, I have to leave, and it's not because I'm angry.

2857
03:34:57,680 --> 03:35:00,040
 Thank you so much.

2858
03:35:00,040 --> 03:35:05,800
 Thanks for being here.

2859
03:35:05,800 --> 03:35:08,480
 Next is David Yoder, followed by Allison Prather.

2860
03:35:08,480 --> 03:35:12,400
 If you could state your name and address for the record.

2861
03:35:12,400 --> 03:35:13,400
 My name is David Yoder.

2862
03:35:13,400 --> 03:35:17,600
 I live at 940 and 950 Brush Creek Road in Argyle, Texas.

2863
03:35:17,600 --> 03:35:22,680
 We're David and Kathy Yoder, and we have lived on Brush Creek Road since 1985.

2864
03:35:22,680 --> 03:35:26,280
 We moved here when there were only 10 houses on all of Brush Creek.

2865
03:35:26,280 --> 03:35:31,520
 Kiowa Trails, Wood Creek Circle, the Hills of Argyle, Country Club Village, and all subdivisions

2866
03:35:31,520 --> 03:35:33,800
 built after 1985.

2867
03:35:33,800 --> 03:35:38,340
 We have worked tirelessly with the project developers, Den County and Citi, to create

2868
03:35:38,340 --> 03:35:42,400
 and maintain a rural community that supported our rural atmosphere and lifestyle.

2869
03:35:42,400 --> 03:35:45,360
 This is not about social status or economics.

2870
03:35:45,360 --> 03:35:49,480
 It's about the inappropriateness of inserting a two-, three-, and four-story multifamily

2871
03:35:49,480 --> 03:35:55,200
 apartment complex, immediately abutting a rural community made up of one to five-acre

2872
03:35:55,200 --> 03:35:57,160
 homes and ranchettes.

2873
03:35:57,160 --> 03:36:01,680
 Within a one-mile radius of the corner of Highway 377 and Brush Creek Road, there are

2874
03:36:01,680 --> 03:36:05,720
 zero homes on less than one-acre lots, period.

2875
03:36:05,720 --> 03:36:10,680
 It's about safety and traffic flow, as currently designed, this apartment complex site plan

2876
03:36:10,680 --> 03:36:15,920
 has 352 units, 646 parking spaces, and four exits.

2877
03:36:15,920 --> 03:36:25,880
 The northernmost exit is 135 feet south of Bonnie Bray. Sage Brook, a 150-acre development

2878
03:36:25,880 --> 03:36:31,860
 with 497 proposed lots, is currently in annexation and zoning with the City of Denton.

2879
03:36:31,860 --> 03:36:37,080
 This development will also exit onto Highway 377 at Brush Creek and Bonnie Bray.

2880
03:36:37,080 --> 03:36:42,000
 These two developments will increase the daily trips to well over 10,000.

2881
03:36:42,000 --> 03:36:47,040
 The widening of Brush Creek Road and 377 and the installation of traffic lights at both

2882
03:36:47,040 --> 03:36:50,280
 have no definitive completion date at this time.

2883
03:36:50,280 --> 03:36:55,360
 Both traffic lights will require synchronization with a very active railroad crossing.

2884
03:36:55,360 --> 03:37:01,280
 The proposed zoning request of the property from RR and R1 to MN mixed-use neighborhood

2885
03:37:01,280 --> 03:37:07,120
 is not consistent or conducive with many of the values espoused in the Denton Development

2886
03:37:07,120 --> 03:37:09,120
 Plan 2030.

2887
03:37:09,120 --> 03:37:14,400
 In community vision statement, land use overview and the Denton Development Code.

2888
03:37:14,400 --> 03:37:18,880
 Rezoning of this property to MN mixed-use without maintaining the appropriate scale

2889
03:37:18,880 --> 03:37:26,120
 and intensity of the surrounding neighborhood defalues the neighborhood, destroys community

2890
03:37:26,120 --> 03:37:30,720
 and is inconsistent with the overall goals and objectives of the Denton Plan.

2891
03:37:30,720 --> 03:37:34,560
 Ensuring that buildings are of the appropriate scale and intensity to complement the surrounding

2892
03:37:34,560 --> 03:37:37,200
 neighborhood environment is critical.

2893
03:37:37,200 --> 03:37:42,520
 The planning and zoning staff analysis material is misleading and incomplete.

2894
03:37:42,520 --> 03:37:46,560
 Traffic analysis is incomplete because it does not take into consideration the additional

2895
03:37:46,560 --> 03:37:51,560
 planned development of Sagebrook Subdivision at 377 and Bonnie Bray.

2896
03:37:51,560 --> 03:37:56,320
 Parks, access to the proposed parks at the corner of Bonnie Bray and Allred Road will

2897
03:37:56,320 --> 03:38:01,040
 require children to cross a very busy four-lane highway and active railroad tracks to access

2898
03:38:01,040 --> 03:38:02,240
 the park.

2899
03:38:02,240 --> 03:38:08,200
 The stated walking distance is 1,033 feet, is misleading and raises significant and potential

2900
03:38:08,200 --> 03:38:12,280
 deadly safety concerns not addressed by staff.

2901
03:38:12,280 --> 03:38:15,000
 Dr. Wright has answered the question on schools.

2902
03:38:15,000 --> 03:38:17,840
 My recommendation is denial of this request.

2903
03:38:17,840 --> 03:38:18,840
 Thank you very much.

2904
03:38:18,840 --> 03:38:19,840
 Thank you.

2905
03:38:19,840 --> 03:38:29,760
 I would also like to note that the two commercial properties that they identify are both setbacks

2906
03:38:29,760 --> 03:38:33,240
 and do not include the first part which is in the city limits.

2907
03:38:33,240 --> 03:38:39,280
 They're built in the ETJ and therefore they are not out as commercial properties.

2908
03:38:39,280 --> 03:38:40,280
 Thank you.

2909
03:38:40,280 --> 03:38:41,280
 Thank you.

2910
03:38:41,280 --> 03:38:49,280
 Next is Allison Prather followed by Perry Dyer.

2911
03:38:49,280 --> 03:38:57,120
 If you would just state your name and address for record.

2912
03:38:57,120 --> 03:38:58,120
 My name is Allison Prather.

2913
03:38:58,120 --> 03:39:02,400
 I live at 4921 Kyle Wittrell.

2914
03:39:02,400 --> 03:39:05,040
 Thank you for hearing me tonight.

2915
03:39:05,040 --> 03:39:08,920
 My husband and I are in opposition to the rezoning of this property.

2916
03:39:08,920 --> 03:39:14,840
 Our property backs up to this property would be our backyard basically.

2917
03:39:14,840 --> 03:39:21,160
 Noise pollution, light pollution, not to mention people walking their dogs down our street

2918
03:39:21,160 --> 03:39:27,560
 and allowing their animals to defecate in our yards, that would be messes to clean up.

2919
03:39:27,560 --> 03:39:31,960
 We enjoy our sunsets if there's a four story, anything back there.

2920
03:39:31,960 --> 03:39:33,820
 We would not see the sunsets.

2921
03:39:33,820 --> 03:39:37,200
 It's very quiet and tranquil out there.

2922
03:39:37,200 --> 03:39:42,800
 We would lose our quiet and our tranquility if this was rezoned.

2923
03:39:42,800 --> 03:39:51,320
 The zoning needs to stay one acre residential as it is now to complement the neighborhood

2924
03:39:51,320 --> 03:39:55,480
 and leave the ... People move out there and live out there for a reason.

2925
03:39:55,480 --> 03:39:57,080
 They want it to be like it is now.

2926
03:39:57,080 --> 03:40:01,320
 They don't want big changes coming.

2927
03:40:01,320 --> 03:40:03,320
 Thank you very much for listening to me.

2928
03:40:03,320 --> 03:40:08,060
 Thank you very much.

2929
03:40:08,060 --> 03:40:12,280
 Next is Perry Dyer followed by Leon Dade.

2930
03:40:12,280 --> 03:40:13,280
 Leon Dade.

2931
03:40:13,280 --> 03:40:14,280
 Good evening.

2932
03:40:14,280 --> 03:40:15,280
 Thank you for your time.

2933
03:40:15,280 --> 03:40:19,240
 Perry Dyer, 4800 Snow Shield Court, Argyle, Texas or Denton, however it's worded out for

2934
03:40:19,240 --> 03:40:21,440
 the mail there.

2935
03:40:21,440 --> 03:40:25,640
 Our area is very unique and the reason I moved out there two years ago was because of that

2936
03:40:25,640 --> 03:40:26,640
 uniqueness.

2937
03:40:26,640 --> 03:40:30,320
 We live in a very small town out in Northern California and the reason we lived there and

2938
03:40:30,320 --> 03:40:32,360
 liked it is because it is a small town.

2939
03:40:32,360 --> 03:40:35,040
 The people who are moving to these areas want that.

2940
03:40:35,040 --> 03:40:37,600
 They are understanding that it takes 10 minutes to go to a grocery store.

2941
03:40:37,600 --> 03:40:39,720
 It takes 10 minutes to go to a gas station.

2942
03:40:39,720 --> 03:40:41,760
 It takes 10 minutes to get about anywhere from where we are.

2943
03:40:41,760 --> 03:40:43,660
 We don't need instantaneous access.

2944
03:40:43,660 --> 03:40:44,660
 We don't want that.

2945
03:40:44,660 --> 03:40:46,380
 That's not why we moved there.

2946
03:40:46,380 --> 03:40:49,780
 As Lieutenant from the fire department talked about, response times.

2947
03:40:49,780 --> 03:40:53,960
 My neighbor's house, unfortunately Donna had to leave, burnt down last year.

2948
03:40:53,960 --> 03:40:58,840
 To the ground, 100 percent, if an apartment complex catches fire, that's going to take

2949
03:40:58,840 --> 03:41:02,000
 all the resources for our area to deal with that.

2950
03:41:02,000 --> 03:41:03,000
 Anybody else?

2951
03:41:03,000 --> 03:41:04,000
 I'm sorry.

2952
03:41:04,000 --> 03:41:08,920
 We've got to bring somebody else in from another division and department to bring it in.

2953
03:41:08,920 --> 03:41:14,900
 It takes bold vision from you guys, from the city council, to stand up to just making it

2954
03:41:14,900 --> 03:41:17,200
 another town, just like everywhere else.

2955
03:41:17,200 --> 03:41:19,920
 You drive through all these neighborhoods, they're identical.

2956
03:41:19,920 --> 03:41:20,920
 There's this.

2957
03:41:20,920 --> 03:41:21,920
 There's that.

2958
03:41:21,920 --> 03:41:22,920
 There's apartments.

2959
03:41:22,920 --> 03:41:23,920
 There's small houses.

2960
03:41:23,920 --> 03:41:25,480
 There's all the same businesses.

2961
03:41:25,480 --> 03:41:30,520
 It takes vision on your guys' part to say, "No, we're going to allow something to stay

2962
03:41:30,520 --> 03:41:33,600
 rural, something to stay unique, and have charm."

2963
03:41:33,600 --> 03:41:36,720
 That's what brings people to the area, makes people want to be there.

2964
03:41:36,720 --> 03:41:42,120
 In 20 years, maybe that's why people want to still come, is because they see that vision,

2965
03:41:42,120 --> 03:41:43,120
 they have that uniqueness.

2966
03:41:43,120 --> 03:41:48,040
 If people want apartments, they can go just down the road, find apartments.

2967
03:41:48,040 --> 03:41:49,520
 They're all over the place.

2968
03:41:49,520 --> 03:41:52,800
 We don't need to make ourselves just like every other area.

2969
03:41:52,800 --> 03:41:53,800
 Thank you for your time.

2970
03:41:53,800 --> 03:42:03,920
 After Mr. Dade, we'll have Pam Harrington, Ms. Dade.

2971
03:42:03,920 --> 03:42:04,920
 I'm sorry.

2972
03:42:04,920 --> 03:42:05,920
 He was walking right towards me.

2973
03:42:05,920 --> 03:42:10,500
 I just made a bad assumption.

2974
03:42:10,500 --> 03:42:11,500
 It's quite all right.

2975
03:42:11,500 --> 03:42:12,500
 My apologies.

2976
03:42:12,500 --> 03:42:13,500
 No, that's quite all right.

2977
03:42:13,500 --> 03:42:14,560
 I need to state your name and address for the record.

2978
03:42:14,560 --> 03:42:19,920
 My name is Leona McDade, and I live at 116 Stonecrest Road, Argyle, Texas.

2979
03:42:19,920 --> 03:42:27,760
 I am also a parent in the school district, believe it or not, I am, raising our grandson.

2980
03:42:27,760 --> 03:42:32,760
 I do have some very serious concerns about the proposed apartment complex.

2981
03:42:32,760 --> 03:42:34,520
 I know a lot of people have said a lot of things.

2982
03:42:34,520 --> 03:42:38,840
 I'm not going to take the time to repeat it, but I will say that I agree with pretty much

2983
03:42:38,840 --> 03:42:42,400
 100 percent everything that everybody has said.

2984
03:42:42,400 --> 03:42:44,880
 Put that on the record for that.

2985
03:42:44,880 --> 03:42:50,360
 We opened up a new elementary campus this fall to relieve overcrowding in our previous

2986
03:42:50,360 --> 03:42:55,080
 elementary school, which almost reached 1,000 students last year.

2987
03:42:55,080 --> 03:42:58,240
 We now have that second elementary open, which has given some relief.

2988
03:42:58,240 --> 03:43:05,520
 We have a third one, hopefully, that will open up in 2022 that is part of the bond election

2989
03:43:05,520 --> 03:43:08,560
 that was passed in 2017.

2990
03:43:08,560 --> 03:43:14,480
 But all that is based on the current projections by our demographer and do not include this

2991
03:43:14,480 --> 03:43:17,080
 apartment complex.

2992
03:43:17,080 --> 03:43:22,160
 If I did some numbers here, which I thought you might be interested in hearing.

2993
03:43:22,160 --> 03:43:24,040
 Denton ISD has 40 schools.

2994
03:43:24,040 --> 03:43:26,320
 I might be off by one or two.

2995
03:43:26,320 --> 03:43:29,200
 Argyle ISD has five.

2996
03:43:29,200 --> 03:43:33,560
 We are one-eighth the size of Denton.

2997
03:43:33,560 --> 03:43:40,920
 Denton ISD has, as of 2018, which I could find, 28,628 students.

2998
03:43:40,920 --> 03:43:48,840
 Argyle ISD, as of now, has 3,454, also one-eighth the amount of students.

2999
03:43:48,840 --> 03:43:51,440
 Interesting how that worked out.

3000
03:43:51,440 --> 03:43:56,680
 If you look at, and I've revised some of my projections here based on what I've heard

3001
03:43:56,680 --> 03:44:01,080
 this evening, but I'm going to give you a range.

3002
03:44:01,080 --> 03:44:07,320
 If we get 150 students from this apartment complex, that's four and a half percent of

3003
03:44:07,320 --> 03:44:09,760
 Argyle ISD's student population.

3004
03:44:09,760 --> 03:44:13,160
 If we get 200 students, it's six percent.

3005
03:44:13,160 --> 03:44:17,360
 If we get 300 students, it's nine percent.

3006
03:44:17,360 --> 03:44:20,560
 We can't absorb any of that.

3007
03:44:20,560 --> 03:44:22,960
 Push forward now to Denton ISD.

3008
03:44:22,960 --> 03:44:30,760
 If Denton ISD had to absorb this apartment complex, four and a half percent of their

3009
03:44:30,760 --> 03:44:40,100
 student population would be 1,288 students, six percent, 1,700, nine percent, 2,500,

3010
03:44:40,100 --> 03:44:43,920
 if it was truly that, all clustered in one attendance zone.

3011
03:44:43,920 --> 03:44:48,560
 But either way, if you put that many students in our school district, we're going to have

3012
03:44:48,560 --> 03:44:50,680
 to build another elementary school.

3013
03:44:50,680 --> 03:44:52,080
 There's no doubt that we'd have to.

3014
03:44:52,080 --> 03:44:53,240
 We don't have the funds.

3015
03:44:53,240 --> 03:44:56,400
 We don't have the bonding capacity that Denton ISD has.

3016
03:44:56,400 --> 03:44:59,000
 We do not have the infrastructure.

3017
03:44:59,000 --> 03:45:04,760
 We do not have the commercial tax base in order to float another bond election.

3018
03:45:04,760 --> 03:45:11,480
 Our next one we're looking at is about 2023 at the earliest, and that would have to include

3019
03:45:11,480 --> 03:45:17,320
 additional schools other than the one elementary, excuse me, the one elementary that's planned.

3020
03:45:17,320 --> 03:45:25,140
 And this all takes into account what we already know is coming to Argyle ISD, excuse me.

3021
03:45:25,140 --> 03:45:32,300
 If this apartment complex were approved, it would definitely overburden the resources

3022
03:45:32,300 --> 03:45:33,800
 of Argyle ISD.

3023
03:45:33,800 --> 03:45:38,800
 There's absolutely no doubt in my mind, along with the quality of education in our school

3024
03:45:38,800 --> 03:45:43,480
 district, which is primarily, honestly, well, not primarily, but one of the big reasons

3025
03:45:43,480 --> 03:45:49,280
 that people move, including myself, to Argyle is for the school district, and it's also

3026
03:45:49,280 --> 03:45:52,360
 for the ruralness of the community.

3027
03:45:52,360 --> 03:45:57,960
 As Denton ISD does, Argyle ISD depends on a professional demographer to give us our

3028
03:45:57,960 --> 03:45:58,960
 projections.

3029
03:45:58,960 --> 03:46:04,800
 And as this property right now is zoned one acre lots, that's how we have determined

3030
03:46:04,800 --> 03:46:05,800
 our bond.

3031
03:46:05,800 --> 03:46:09,560
 It has determined the number of schools we build and when the needs of the schools are

3032
03:46:09,560 --> 03:46:10,560
 going to occur.

3033
03:46:10,560 --> 03:46:14,960
 I just have one little quick statement.

3034
03:46:14,960 --> 03:46:15,960
 Okay.

3035
03:46:15,960 --> 03:46:20,560
 I appreciate the work that all of you are doing, absolutely, that you serve.

3036
03:46:20,560 --> 03:46:25,840
 I encourage you to drive to the area and look at what already exists there and how whatever

3037
03:46:25,840 --> 03:46:30,200
 decision you decide to make will impact that area.

3038
03:46:30,200 --> 03:46:35,680
 And I also respectfully request that you deny this rezoning request and relook at your comp

3039
03:46:35,680 --> 03:46:39,320
 plan regarding this area and not allow multifamily in there at all.

3040
03:46:39,320 --> 03:46:42,320
 Thank you.

3041
03:46:42,320 --> 03:46:45,600
 Thank you.

3042
03:46:45,600 --> 03:46:47,360
 Pam Arrington, followed by Susan Apple.

3043
03:46:47,360 --> 03:46:51,480
 Hi, I'm Pamela Arrington, 3121 Stone Crop Trail.

3044
03:46:51,480 --> 03:46:54,180
 And I do live in the city of Denton Argyle ISD.

3045
03:46:54,180 --> 03:46:59,640
 I'm representing Argyle ISD as the communications director as well as a parent resident.

3046
03:46:59,640 --> 03:47:04,200
 I'd like to start by adding to what Dr. Wright communicated regarding the growth in the district.

3047
03:47:04,200 --> 03:47:09,120
 Argyle ISD currently has 923 vacant lots available to build on right now.

3048
03:47:09,120 --> 03:47:12,440
 And there are 4,400 future planned lots.

3049
03:47:12,440 --> 03:47:16,860
 There's groundwork underway on more than 1,165 lots.

3050
03:47:16,860 --> 03:47:19,800
 And there are several developments underway as well.

3051
03:47:19,800 --> 03:47:25,440
 And just looking at those numbers right there shows you that as a district growing at over

3052
03:47:25,440 --> 03:47:32,200
 11% annually, we just don't have the ability or the capacity to take on an apartment complex

3053
03:47:32,200 --> 03:47:33,480
 of this size.

3054
03:47:33,480 --> 03:47:39,000
 It's obvious with that number of students, Argyle ISD does have limited and crowded facilities.

3055
03:47:39,000 --> 03:47:41,520
 The number of developments already approved.

3056
03:47:41,520 --> 03:47:45,760
 Argyle ISD is not ready for the initial zoning and rezoning requested at this time for this

3057
03:47:45,760 --> 03:47:47,160
 apartment complex.

3058
03:47:47,160 --> 03:47:50,120
 All right, moving on.

3059
03:47:50,120 --> 03:47:54,480
 Approving the zoning and rezoning of the land at 377 and Brush Creek for apartments contradicts

3060
03:47:54,480 --> 03:47:57,480
 the following points in the City of Denton's growth plan.

3061
03:47:57,480 --> 03:48:02,480
 In the land use overview, it states the concern of a trend referred to as spreading out.

3062
03:48:02,480 --> 03:48:06,800
 The trend leads to longer commutes, greater levels of congestion and strained environment,

3063
03:48:06,800 --> 03:48:10,360
 fiscal resources and challenges for public services and facilities to keep up with the

3064
03:48:10,360 --> 03:48:13,880
 demands of this rapidly enlarging development footprint.

3065
03:48:13,880 --> 03:48:17,480
 It goes on to state that in response to the public input that led to the community vision

3066
03:48:17,480 --> 03:48:25,140
 statement, that it is the intention of the land use, well, it is the intention to reverse

3067
03:48:25,140 --> 03:48:29,920
 this trend by encouraging thoughtful and resourceful development investment, supporting more compact

3068
03:48:29,920 --> 03:48:34,840
 and interconnected land use patterns, providing walkability, biking.

3069
03:48:34,840 --> 03:48:39,520
 Is this, I think we need to analyze this and ask ourselves, is this really encouraging

3070
03:48:39,520 --> 03:48:43,840
 thoughtful and resourceful development investment by approving this apartment complex at the

3071
03:48:43,840 --> 03:48:46,640
 corner of 377 and Brush Creek?

3072
03:48:46,640 --> 03:48:51,320
 When it's mentioned by the representative that works for the developer, providing walkability

3073
03:48:51,320 --> 03:48:56,600
 to the residents at this apartment complex and biking to a nearby park outstated by other

3074
03:48:56,600 --> 03:49:01,440
 residents, would mean that those bikers and those walkers would not only have to cross

3075
03:49:01,440 --> 03:49:06,000
 a busy highway 377, but also the safety concern of the railroad, which the railroad really

3076
03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:10,160
 hasn't been mentioned much, which I'm surprised by as a parent having to drive my students

3077
03:49:10,160 --> 03:49:15,360
 to and from school every day and to all of their activities, I use 377 as my main mode

3078
03:49:15,360 --> 03:49:19,280
 of transportation and I know the parents out there that have to cross the railroad tracks

3079
03:49:19,280 --> 03:49:21,600
 every single day know that that adds to the commute time.

3080
03:49:21,600 --> 03:49:28,120
 When you add 500 extra vehicles on that roadway that are having to travel across that railroad,

3081
03:49:28,120 --> 03:49:31,400
 your commute time is going to even increase more and then of course you're going to have

3082
03:49:31,400 --> 03:49:35,440
 more accidents, therefore increasing the need for the fire and the police.

3083
03:49:35,440 --> 03:49:38,200
 All right, so again, there are a lot of concerns.

3084
03:49:38,200 --> 03:49:41,000
 We've heard a lot of the concerns we've had here tonight.

3085
03:49:41,000 --> 03:49:45,440
 Our motto or one of our mottos in Argyle is we are Argyle and that's because we all support

3086
03:49:45,440 --> 03:49:46,440
 each other.

3087
03:49:46,440 --> 03:49:50,640
 We support the school district, we support the community members, the small businesses

3088
03:49:50,640 --> 03:49:54,760
 and you know our voices have been heard and we just ask that the developers work together

3089
03:49:54,760 --> 03:50:00,240
 with us, work together and opening those lines of communication, listening to our concerns

3090
03:50:00,240 --> 03:50:04,240
 and our voices and supporting the city's growth plan and the vision of Argyle.

3091
03:50:04,240 --> 03:50:05,240
 Thank you so much.

3092
03:50:05,240 --> 03:50:09,920
 Thank you.

3093
03:50:09,920 --> 03:50:10,920
 We actually have a question for you.

3094
03:50:10,920 --> 03:50:11,920
 We have a question for you, Mr. Smith.

3095
03:50:11,920 --> 03:50:12,920
 Yes, absolutely.

3096
03:50:12,920 --> 03:50:13,920
 Thank you, Chair.

3097
03:50:13,920 --> 03:50:18,060
 Mrs. Arrington, I meant to mention this earlier when your superintendent spoke, but I think

3098
03:50:18,060 --> 03:50:21,360
 the school density piece is one thing that's really driving a lot of the comments I have

3099
03:50:21,360 --> 03:50:25,840
 to make tonight about this project and my affinity towards it, but if I can make one

3100
03:50:25,840 --> 03:50:29,840
 recommendation to Argyle ISD with both of you guys listening in here now, this should

3101
03:50:29,840 --> 03:50:35,620
 be a really good chance for you guys as an ISD to build a standard for your density of

3102
03:50:35,620 --> 03:50:36,620
 developments coming in.

3103
03:50:36,620 --> 03:50:41,040
 With as much growth as could be coming in Argyle here soon, I don't think from a planning

3104
03:50:41,040 --> 03:50:48,340
 standpoint going case by case and development by development is smart and it gives the city

3105
03:50:48,340 --> 03:50:53,740
 of Denton the opportunity to say, "Well, we think that their number calculation is flawed."

3106
03:50:53,740 --> 03:50:59,400
 So I would encourage the ISD to begin a standardization of your density if you can.

3107
03:50:59,400 --> 03:51:04,900
 I know it's hard to do because not every development is the exact same, but at least trying something

3108
03:51:04,900 --> 03:51:06,680
 rather than saying, "Well, this neighborhood is this way.

3109
03:51:06,680 --> 03:51:07,680
 This neighborhood is that way."

3110
03:51:07,680 --> 03:51:14,080
 The marker was within 10 students of the projection.

3111
03:51:14,080 --> 03:51:15,080
 Absolutely.

3112
03:51:15,080 --> 03:51:16,080
 Spot on.

3113
03:51:16,080 --> 03:51:17,080
 Okay.

3114
03:51:17,080 --> 03:51:18,080
 Just a recommendation.

3115
03:51:18,080 --> 03:51:22,480
 Knowing how the city of Denton has reacted to your numbers, how the city of Denton has

3116
03:51:22,480 --> 03:51:26,180
 grown over the last 15 years or so and the way that we've done development and growth

3117
03:51:26,180 --> 03:51:31,140
 up here, I would encourage Argyle as Denton is not going to stop seeping down into your

3118
03:51:31,140 --> 03:51:32,140
 ISD.

3119
03:51:32,140 --> 03:51:37,260
 So if the demographer, if it's efficient for them to go case by case, understood.

3120
03:51:37,260 --> 03:51:43,020
 But I think it might be a time to build some sort of standardization or some codified way

3121
03:51:43,020 --> 03:51:45,660
 of being able to quantify that.

3122
03:51:45,660 --> 03:51:46,660
 Next.

3123
03:51:46,660 --> 03:51:54,780
 Dr. Wright, since you're not mic'd up, I want to caution against commissioners that engage

3124
03:51:54,780 --> 03:51:56,500
 in the audience.

3125
03:51:56,500 --> 03:52:04,380
 For the sake of answering your question, Dr. Wright, can you come back up to the mic?

3126
03:52:04,380 --> 03:52:08,920
 Interestingly enough, I actually have an appointment with the demographer tomorrow afternoon and

3127
03:52:08,920 --> 03:52:16,100
 I do appreciate your insightful comments regarding this, Mr. Smith, and I will discuss it thoroughly

3128
03:52:16,100 --> 03:52:17,100
 with the demographer.

3129
03:52:17,100 --> 03:52:18,100
 Thank you.

3130
03:52:18,100 --> 03:52:19,100
 Tell them hi for me.

3131
03:52:19,100 --> 03:52:20,100
 Thank you.

3132
03:52:20,100 --> 03:52:21,700
 Thank you.

3133
03:52:21,700 --> 03:52:33,980
 Next is Susan Apple, followed by James Vogel-Gessonck.

3134
03:52:33,980 --> 03:52:34,980
 There's no way I'm close.

3135
03:52:34,980 --> 03:52:40,580
 Ms. Apple, if you could state your name and address, I'd appreciate it.

3136
03:52:40,580 --> 03:52:41,580
 My name is Susan Apple.

3137
03:52:41,580 --> 03:52:46,060
 I live at 8,000 Wood Creek Circle, Argyle, Texas.

3138
03:52:46,060 --> 03:52:52,220
 However, we are in the city of Denton, the city annexed our cul-de-sac in 1979.

3139
03:52:52,220 --> 03:52:55,280
 We've been in the same home for 26 years.

3140
03:52:55,280 --> 03:53:00,860
 Our cul-de-sac is zoned R1 and all of the lots are over one acre.

3141
03:53:00,860 --> 03:53:07,060
 Y'all have messed me up because I had one speech to give and then with the careful conversations

3142
03:53:07,060 --> 03:53:12,380
 that y'all have had, which I appreciate very much, it's kind of changed my focus a little

3143
03:53:12,380 --> 03:53:13,380
 bit.

3144
03:53:13,380 --> 03:53:17,740
 I have to agree with the previous folks who said that they would really like a denial

3145
03:53:17,740 --> 03:53:19,300
 tonight.

3146
03:53:19,300 --> 03:53:25,700
 This was the first notice I got for the September 18th public hearing.

3147
03:53:25,700 --> 03:53:31,460
 Since the developer failed to put signs up and I had to let the planner know that the

3148
03:53:31,460 --> 03:53:37,620
 signs had not put up because apparently they didn't follow up, that meeting was rescheduled

3149
03:53:37,620 --> 03:53:42,980
 to this meeting, which was on October the 2nd.

3150
03:53:42,980 --> 03:53:48,500
 We never got a really good reason for why October the 2nd didn't happen, but then we

3151
03:53:48,500 --> 03:53:52,220
 got our third notice for tonight's meeting.

3152
03:53:52,220 --> 03:53:57,820
 So I really don't have a lot of excitement about coming back again.

3153
03:53:57,820 --> 03:54:00,460
 I think this is kind of ridiculous.

3154
03:54:00,460 --> 03:54:08,620
 Let's see, I'll try to-- we actually, after we complained that there were no signs up

3155
03:54:08,620 --> 03:54:13,720
 and they had to reschedule that meeting, then we complained that they had held no neighborhood

3156
03:54:13,720 --> 03:54:15,420
 meeting.

3157
03:54:15,420 --> 03:54:20,660
 It's been my experience that developers are encouraged, especially when it's such a huge

3158
03:54:20,660 --> 03:54:28,860
 up zone like this, to have a meeting so that they don't meet with daggers and foul words.

3159
03:54:28,860 --> 03:54:33,420
 After we complained that there was no neighborhood meeting, that we had had no contact with the

3160
03:54:33,420 --> 03:54:38,900
 developers, two days prior to a meeting being scheduled we got a piece of paper in the mail

3161
03:54:38,900 --> 03:54:40,940
 that said there was a neighborhood meeting.

3162
03:54:40,940 --> 03:54:45,600
 Also, in my experience, neighborhood meetings are held in the neighborhood.

3163
03:54:45,600 --> 03:54:49,420
 This neighborhood meeting was scheduled 15 miles away.

3164
03:54:49,420 --> 03:54:56,100
 Forty of us, approximately 40 of us, drove the 15 miles to the meeting, which was scheduled

3165
03:54:56,100 --> 03:55:01,780
 at 6.30, and as someone else mentioned, the developers arrived after 7 o'clock.

3166
03:55:01,780 --> 03:55:09,320
 They brought with them no materials, no pictures, nothing that you normally would see at a neighborhood

3167
03:55:09,320 --> 03:55:10,580
 meeting.

3168
03:55:10,580 --> 03:55:15,540
 They were actually overconfident when asked questions.

3169
03:55:15,540 --> 03:55:19,740
 Their responses were, "I don't know," or, "We haven't thought about that.

3170
03:55:19,740 --> 03:55:26,380
 We just did that concept plan to get the traffic study going."

3171
03:55:26,380 --> 03:55:28,180
 They would not answer any questions.

3172
03:55:28,180 --> 03:55:36,620
 They were quite joking, they were condescending, and they did not lend themselves to a friendly

3173
03:55:36,620 --> 03:55:39,340
 neighborhood relationship.

3174
03:55:39,340 --> 03:55:45,860
 Again, aside from that would be more meetings, I also don't see them being touchy-feely

3175
03:55:45,860 --> 03:55:52,220
 with the neighbors because they've proven at that meeting we asked for them to reach

3176
03:55:52,220 --> 03:55:53,220
 out to us.

3177
03:55:53,220 --> 03:55:57,060
 Again, we gave them our names, our addresses, our emails.

3178
03:55:57,060 --> 03:56:01,940
 No one has heard from those developers since, and I'm sure they're quite shocked to come

3179
03:56:01,940 --> 03:56:07,500
 in here tonight because someone said they didn't read the tea leaves.

3180
03:56:07,500 --> 03:56:09,720
 They don't have the ability to read the tea leaves.

3181
03:56:09,720 --> 03:56:15,980
 It was clear that they thought this was going to be a slam dunk.

3182
03:56:15,980 --> 03:56:20,540
 Staff recommends approval because it's deemed consistent with the overall goals and objectives

3183
03:56:20,540 --> 03:56:21,540
 of the Denton Plan.

3184
03:56:21,540 --> 03:56:25,740
 I'm going to have to talk really fast, yet it's the exact opposite of the off-stated.

3185
03:56:25,740 --> 03:56:27,940
 The Denton Plan is like nobody read it.

3186
03:56:27,940 --> 03:56:31,180
 It says over and over and over again, "We want to be consistent.

3187
03:56:31,180 --> 03:56:32,540
 We don't want any encroach.

3188
03:56:32,540 --> 03:56:36,220
 We don't want leapfrog development," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

3189
03:56:36,220 --> 03:56:39,780
 In closing, I served on this board for six years.

3190
03:56:39,780 --> 03:56:42,020
 I served as the chair.

3191
03:56:42,020 --> 03:56:47,300
 I know that your eyes are probably glazing over at this point, but this is important,

3192
03:56:47,300 --> 03:56:52,100
 and I hate for all these fine people who have been put through what we've already been put

3193
03:56:52,100 --> 03:56:59,620
 through the developer's fault to have to continue this charade for something that's clearly

3194
03:56:59,620 --> 03:57:01,500
 inappropriate for the neighborhood.

3195
03:57:01,500 --> 03:57:05,380
 I would appreciate a denial, at least consider a denial.

3196
03:57:05,380 --> 03:57:10,380
 Thank you for your time.

3197
03:57:10,380 --> 03:57:20,660
 If you could state your name and pronounce your last name, it would be helpful, and then

3198
03:57:20,660 --> 03:57:24,140
 your address for the record.

3199
03:57:24,140 --> 03:57:33,100
 James A. Vogelgesang, 1805 Warwick Crescent Court, Hills of Argyle.

3200
03:57:33,100 --> 03:57:35,340
 There's not much I can add to what everybody said here.

3201
03:57:35,340 --> 03:57:41,900
 I think you understand where all these people are coming from and their reasons.

3202
03:57:41,900 --> 03:57:45,460
 I worked all my life to get the house that I have in Hills of Argyle, and I don't want

3203
03:57:45,460 --> 03:57:47,660
 to see it destroyed either.

3204
03:57:47,660 --> 03:57:55,180
 I think as far as the Denton plan, when she went through the six points, I found an error

3205
03:57:55,180 --> 03:58:01,460
 or disagreement I had with five of them that weren't consistent with what that plan said

3206
03:58:01,460 --> 03:58:05,060
 in far as my interpretation.

3207
03:58:05,060 --> 03:58:10,620
 I think you have a choice tonight, and I hope you do the right thing.

3208
03:58:10,620 --> 03:58:17,820
 I do appreciate your time staying here, but you need to vote this thing no tonight.

3209
03:58:17,820 --> 03:58:19,900
 This is not going to be a six-week process.

3210
03:58:19,900 --> 03:58:24,420
 They're not going to come back in six weeks with anything any different than what you've

3211
03:58:24,420 --> 03:58:25,420
 seen.

3212
03:58:25,420 --> 03:58:27,980
 This is going to take a while.

3213
03:58:27,980 --> 03:58:32,300
 Disapprove it, send them back to the drawn boards, and have them come up with a different

3214
03:58:32,300 --> 03:58:34,940
 plan.

3215
03:58:34,940 --> 03:58:39,380
 That's what I challenge you to do tonight, is just do the right thing and say, "Nope,

3216
03:58:39,380 --> 03:58:41,620
 wrong answer," and bring them back again.

3217
03:58:41,620 --> 03:58:42,940
 Thank you.

3218
03:58:42,940 --> 03:58:44,500
 Thank you.

3219
03:58:44,500 --> 03:58:46,300
 Commissioner Pernitta.

3220
03:58:46,300 --> 03:58:55,700
 I just want to get a clarification real quick.

3221
03:58:55,700 --> 03:59:01,020
 If there were a motion to deny, what's the minimum turnaround time for them to come back

3222
03:59:01,020 --> 03:59:04,020
 with something else, once again?

3223
03:59:04,020 --> 03:59:18,060
 If there's a denial by city council, I believe it's a six-month or a year, I'd have to check

3224
03:59:18,060 --> 03:59:22,180
 unless it's a substantially different proposal.

3225
03:59:22,180 --> 03:59:29,420
 In this instance, it would either be less land area or a different zoning category.

3226
03:59:29,420 --> 03:59:34,100
 It would still be kicking the can down the road, but it would be kicking the can down

3227
03:59:34,100 --> 03:59:35,100
 the road a year from now.

3228
03:59:35,100 --> 03:59:36,100
 At least.

3229
03:59:36,100 --> 03:59:37,860
 I'm going to confirm that in the code right now.

3230
03:59:37,860 --> 03:59:38,860
 All right.

3231
03:59:38,860 --> 03:59:39,860
 Thank you.

3232
03:59:39,860 --> 03:59:40,860
 Commissioner Smith.

3233
03:59:40,860 --> 03:59:41,860
 Thank you, Chair.

3234
03:59:41,860 --> 03:59:44,860
 Richard, just to follow up on that, because we were talking about earlier, the motion

3235
03:59:44,860 --> 03:59:49,100
 to postpone within that, to let them go back and possibly bring back a PD rather than an

3236
03:59:49,100 --> 03:59:50,100
 MN.

3237
03:59:50,100 --> 03:59:53,020
 You're saying that there was a denial that they can go back, and a substantially different

3238
03:59:53,020 --> 03:59:58,300
 application would be coming back with a brand new zoning of a PD rather than an MN, correct?

3239
03:59:58,300 --> 04:00:02,300
 Essentially, the denial and the postponement, the only difference between those two things

3240
04:00:02,300 --> 04:00:03,300
 is time.

3241
04:00:03,300 --> 04:00:04,300
 Correct.

3242
04:00:04,300 --> 04:00:10,300
 If this went with a recommendation of denial, then it would go as a supermajority to city

3243
04:00:10,300 --> 04:00:11,460
 council.

3244
04:00:11,460 --> 04:00:20,380
 If council were to deny it, it would have to be a substantially different proposal.

3245
04:00:20,380 --> 04:00:24,020
 The next card I have is for Ashley Nguyen.

3246
04:00:24,020 --> 04:00:32,220
 Can I speak with you for her, if you have her, please?

3247
04:00:32,220 --> 04:00:33,220
 Sure.

3248
04:00:33,220 --> 04:00:34,220
 Absolutely.

3249
04:00:34,220 --> 04:00:41,220
 If you could just stage your name and address for the record.

3250
04:00:41,220 --> 04:00:42,220
 Okay.

3251
04:00:42,220 --> 04:00:43,220
 My name is Peaches Smith.

3252
04:00:43,220 --> 04:00:47,140
 I live at 2812 Newport Avenue in Denton, Texas.

3253
04:00:47,140 --> 04:00:55,820
 My daughter Ashley and my son-in-law Suvin Nguyen live at 231 407 in Argyle.

3254
04:00:55,820 --> 04:00:59,820
 They just moved there two years ago.

3255
04:00:59,820 --> 04:01:01,300
 They have three children.

3256
04:01:01,300 --> 04:01:10,500
 They've been bombarded basically by the expansion of 407, the expansion of 377.

3257
04:01:10,500 --> 04:01:18,200
 They moved there from Irving to be in a small town to raise their children.

3258
04:01:18,200 --> 04:01:20,100
 My daughter grew up in a small town.

3259
04:01:20,100 --> 04:01:22,420
 My son-in-law grew up in the city.

3260
04:01:22,420 --> 04:01:24,380
 They have farm animals.

3261
04:01:24,380 --> 04:01:26,260
 They love the school.

3262
04:01:26,260 --> 04:01:31,260
 My son-in-law, which is surprising, he's a firefighter in Richardson, Texas.

3263
04:01:31,260 --> 04:01:34,380
 I can't believe he turned into a little farmer.

3264
04:01:34,380 --> 04:01:43,020
 But apartment complexes, and I know I've lived in them, people do not take the same care

3265
04:01:43,020 --> 04:01:49,820
 and concern not only for their home, they don't take the same care and concern for their children.

3266
04:01:49,820 --> 04:01:55,420
 They don't take the same care and concern for their community or their schools.

3267
04:01:55,420 --> 04:02:02,940
 I'm not doubting anyone that in apartments I've lived in them, but that's a fact of life.

3268
04:02:02,940 --> 04:02:13,220
 And Argyle, I just hate to see it be turned into something it's never meant to be.

3269
04:02:13,220 --> 04:02:22,820
 It's a beautiful small town place that I, like my children grew up in.

3270
04:02:22,820 --> 04:02:25,140
 My kids grew up in a small town.

3271
04:02:25,140 --> 04:02:26,140
 They had farm animals.

3272
04:02:26,140 --> 04:02:29,100
 They went to a small school.

3273
04:02:29,100 --> 04:02:36,020
 I was very active in the school, active with my children, and in an apartment complex,

3274
04:02:36,020 --> 04:02:45,900
 especially with looming right over every other house, I just pray that y'all reject it.

3275
04:02:45,900 --> 04:02:46,900
 Thank you.

3276
04:02:46,900 --> 04:02:47,900
 Thank you.

3277
04:02:47,900 --> 04:02:57,820
 Richard, can you clarify the question that Mr. Smith had earlier?

3278
04:02:57,820 --> 04:03:01,340
 I just wanted to, and I'll read right from the code.

3279
04:03:01,340 --> 04:03:05,900
 This is on limitation of subsequent similar applications accepted city council's request.

3280
04:03:05,900 --> 04:03:09,300
 Following denial of an application, an application that is the same or substantially similar

3281
04:03:09,300 --> 04:03:12,660
 will be accepted with a one year of a previous denial.

3282
04:03:12,660 --> 04:03:16,620
 For the purpose of this provision, substantially similar shall mean any application that is

3283
04:03:16,620 --> 04:03:21,300
 not materially different in terms of the proposed development or activities related to the reasons

3284
04:03:21,300 --> 04:03:25,220
 for denial of the previously submitted application as determined by the director.

3285
04:03:25,220 --> 04:03:30,140
 As a part two to this subsection F, the waiting period may be waived by the decision making

3286
04:03:30,140 --> 04:03:34,980
 body provided that A, there is a substantial change of circumstances or new information

3287
04:03:34,980 --> 04:03:38,940
 available relevant to the issues or facts considered during the previous application

3288
04:03:38,940 --> 04:03:43,900
 review, or the new application is materially different from the previous application as

3289
04:03:43,900 --> 04:03:44,900
 determined by the director.

3290
04:03:44,900 --> 04:03:49,660
 I mean, I can tell you right now, it would have to be substantially different, a different

3291
04:03:49,660 --> 04:03:52,740
 zoning category for even consideration.

3292
04:03:52,740 --> 04:03:58,900
 Okay, so once again, minimum one year, but if they came back with like a PD, we could

3293
04:03:58,900 --> 04:04:02,500
 waive that one year if they had something that was amenable to the community within

3294
04:04:02,500 --> 04:04:03,980
 six months.

3295
04:04:03,980 --> 04:04:08,100
 It could be a PD, it could be a suburban court, I mean there's a number of-

3296
04:04:08,100 --> 04:04:09,100
 It just could not be-

3297
04:04:09,100 --> 04:04:10,100
 An MN.

3298
04:04:10,100 --> 04:04:11,100
 An MN, right.

3299
04:04:11,100 --> 04:04:12,100
 Okay, all right.

3300
04:04:12,100 --> 04:04:13,100
 Or substantially similar.

3301
04:04:13,100 --> 04:04:14,100
 All right.

3302
04:04:14,100 --> 04:04:25,380
 So the next card I have is Keith Whitehouse, see here.

3303
04:04:25,380 --> 04:04:39,260
 Hello, my name's Keith Whitehouse, I live on 1120 Brush Creek Road, along with my neighbors

3304
04:04:39,260 --> 04:04:42,820
 David Yoder and Gary Davis who spoke earlier.

3305
04:04:42,820 --> 04:04:45,980
 So I appreciate your gentleman's time this evening.

3306
04:04:45,980 --> 04:04:55,500
 I think this proposal is clearly not in the way that the community was originally designed.

3307
04:04:55,500 --> 04:05:00,820
 I moved there 15 years ago when it was just a semi-rural area.

3308
04:05:00,820 --> 04:05:06,820
 I think that's the charm of that community and it continues to be that way.

3309
04:05:06,820 --> 04:05:11,300
 I think you've heard time and time again this evening that the infrastructure is not created

3310
04:05:11,300 --> 04:05:16,180
 well enough to really support those sets of apartments.

3311
04:05:16,180 --> 04:05:20,020
 And I don't really see that happening until there's a four-lane or six-lane road going

3312
04:05:20,020 --> 04:05:23,780
 down 377 Andor Brush Creek Road.

3313
04:05:23,780 --> 04:05:27,420
 So it's already dangerous as it is, you know?

3314
04:05:27,420 --> 04:05:33,900
 So it is a- I just can't emphasize how dangerous it is, we've had a lot of accidents down at

3315
04:05:33,900 --> 04:05:42,500
 Fairway Acres, you know, Vantage Road and, you know, Hills of Argyle entrances and those,

3316
04:05:42,500 --> 04:05:47,980
 that's not going to get any better if those roads aren't expanded and created properly.

3317
04:05:47,980 --> 04:05:51,620
 And it's- I think it's clearly good that we've heard the superintendent here tonight talk

3318
04:05:51,620 --> 04:05:56,260
 about the infrastructure, the schools, et cetera, and the fire department.

3319
04:05:56,260 --> 04:06:04,900
 So I think it's really clear that to me that this has not been a- that the apartments aren't

3320
04:06:04,900 --> 04:06:07,100
 in the really good design plan.

3321
04:06:07,100 --> 04:06:12,300
 So I think you gentlemen have all kind of spoke out for that, I appreciate it.

3322
04:06:12,300 --> 04:06:17,580
 You know, I just relish the time when that bridge was out on Brush Creek for several

3323
04:06:17,580 --> 04:06:18,580
 years.

3324
04:06:18,580 --> 04:06:20,740
 It was nice and quiet there.

3325
04:06:20,740 --> 04:06:25,200
 We like it nice and quiet there and we wish to keep it nice and quiet there.

3326
04:06:25,200 --> 04:06:32,540
 So again, I think bottom line is that is the infrastructure is not there and it is a semi-rural

3327
04:06:32,540 --> 04:06:33,540
 area.

3328
04:06:33,540 --> 04:06:34,540
 That's the way we'd like to keep it.

3329
04:06:34,540 --> 04:06:35,540
 Thank you.

3330
04:06:35,540 --> 04:06:36,540
 Thank you.

3331
04:06:36,540 --> 04:06:56,420
 Is Brian Trail back, I called his name a couple hours ago, I'll assume he's gone.

3332
04:06:56,420 --> 04:06:59,980
 Okay, as I mentioned earlier, I have a stack of white cards that I don't know if you all

3333
04:06:59,980 --> 04:07:00,980
 are wishing to speak or not.

3334
04:07:00,980 --> 04:07:04,300
 So I'm just going to ask if you want to speak, if you don't want to speak, I'll just read

3335
04:07:04,300 --> 04:07:08,180
 your stance, support or oppose into the record.

3336
04:07:08,180 --> 04:07:15,740
 The first one I have is Steven Lepot, are you wishing to speak or do you just want to

3337
04:07:15,740 --> 04:07:16,740
 go into records opposed?

3338
04:07:16,740 --> 04:07:17,740
 Come on down.

3339
04:07:17,740 --> 04:07:30,740
 Thank you very much for taking the time to listen to me, I appreciate it.

3340
04:07:30,740 --> 04:07:31,860
 I actually grew up in Argyle.

3341
04:07:31,860 --> 04:07:34,460
 I was here in 1977.

3342
04:07:34,460 --> 04:07:36,260
 Can you just state your name and address for the record?

3343
04:07:36,260 --> 04:07:39,940
 Oh, I'm sorry, Steven Lepot, it's 2104 Winthrop Hill.

3344
04:07:39,940 --> 04:07:41,940
 Thank you.

3345
04:07:41,940 --> 04:07:48,300
 All right, yeah, so we moved out here in 1977, grew up here, grew up in Argyle School District,

3346
04:07:48,300 --> 04:07:52,260
 moved away for about ten years or so.

3347
04:07:52,260 --> 04:07:57,780
 Lived in a very high developed area over in Frisco and Dallas, Addison area.

3348
04:07:57,780 --> 04:08:01,740
 So once I got married, had kids, I thought, where are we going to go where we can get

3349
04:08:01,740 --> 04:08:06,860
 a nice rural environment, put a lot of effort in researching.

3350
04:08:06,860 --> 04:08:11,260
 And the substance that I was looking for, we have to have something, some kind of reference

3351
04:08:11,260 --> 04:08:14,660
 to figure out where we're going to go, some information.

3352
04:08:14,660 --> 04:08:19,820
 Zoning is one of the biggest, one of the best ways to figure out what the development plan

3353
04:08:19,820 --> 04:08:24,140
 is between the city and the residents.

3354
04:08:24,140 --> 04:08:27,780
 And knowing this area, I knew what the plan was, we looked at the zoning laws, we looked

3355
04:08:27,780 --> 04:08:31,700
 at the zoning for Denton and also Argyle, put a lot of research in them, I really did

3356
04:08:31,700 --> 04:08:33,500
 a lot of research.

3357
04:08:33,500 --> 04:08:37,620
 And it was quite a bit of, it took us a long time to get moved out here, to get established,

3358
04:08:37,620 --> 04:08:41,740
 put a lot of effort into it, I want to raise my kids here, my family.

3359
04:08:41,740 --> 04:08:45,460
 And there's all kinds of things I can plan for, I mean, that's how we live as humans,

3360
04:08:45,460 --> 04:08:53,860
 we plan for, we get insurance for coverage, we do a lot of research to plan for our family,

3361
04:08:53,860 --> 04:08:57,580
 for safety, for future growth development.

3362
04:08:57,580 --> 04:09:03,260
 I feel like we did everything we could possibly do, and we get out here and all of a sudden

3363
04:09:03,260 --> 04:09:07,620
 I see these proposals for zoning changes, I feel like that's the only thing in life

3364
04:09:07,620 --> 04:09:10,540
 that I haven't been able to plan for.

3365
04:09:10,540 --> 04:09:16,780
 We did all our research and here we are and all of a sudden we have a lot of zoning changes.

3366
04:09:16,780 --> 04:09:22,620
 And anyway, there's a lot of great knowledge here, I mean, I could go on and on for four

3367
04:09:22,620 --> 04:09:25,740
 hours and get specifics, but I think that's already been done.

3368
04:09:25,740 --> 04:09:29,260
 So it's kind of for me just a personal, since you already heard, you know everything, heard

3369
04:09:29,260 --> 04:09:30,260
 everything.

3370
04:09:30,260 --> 04:09:35,300
 So it's just kind of a personal, we've put a lot, I know a lot of people have moved out

3371
04:09:35,300 --> 04:09:43,100
 here, have put years into an effort in establishing their residence and the schools.

3372
04:09:43,100 --> 04:09:49,980
 And I can say the zoning is one thing, just to be able to go in and change the zoning.

3373
04:09:49,980 --> 04:09:53,780
 And there's a handful of people, I'm sure there's a few people that are going to really

3374
04:09:53,780 --> 04:10:01,820
 benefit while the whole rest of the community ends up in a disadvantage, quite a big disadvantage.

3375
04:10:01,820 --> 04:10:08,180
 So I don't know how else you can go to plan, but anyway, I really appreciate you listening

3376
04:10:08,180 --> 04:10:13,620
 to us and I know there's a lot more people who would love to be here tonight.

3377
04:10:13,620 --> 04:10:19,780
 But it's obviously we're doing the best we can, so I appreciate it.

3378
04:10:19,780 --> 04:10:20,780
 Thank you very much.

3379
04:10:20,780 --> 04:10:27,620
 Thanks for your time.

3380
04:10:27,620 --> 04:10:33,660
 Donna Parfetti, Donna Parfetti, great.

3381
04:10:33,660 --> 04:10:44,780
 She was post, she is from Argyle, 47085, yeah, I'm not sure about that one.

3382
04:10:44,780 --> 04:10:49,740
 And then I have, I believe, Mike Block, I think that was his name, I have a letter from

3383
04:10:49,740 --> 04:10:51,740
 him, his wife just wanted to read in the record.

3384
04:10:51,740 --> 04:10:55,380
 It says, committee members, I live within 200 feet of the proposed rezoning for the Brush

3385
04:10:55,380 --> 04:10:59,060
 Creek Apartments, item Z18-00113.

3386
04:10:59,060 --> 04:11:02,500
 I am strongly opposed to the zoning change and the apartments.

3387
04:11:02,500 --> 04:11:06,780
 Considering it's surrounded by a designated rural area, I do not agree on building apartments

3388
04:11:06,780 --> 04:11:07,780
 at this time.

3389
04:11:07,780 --> 04:11:12,740
 Thank you for your consideration, Robin E. Block.

3390
04:11:12,740 --> 04:11:18,460
 The next card I have is Carrie Johnson.

3391
04:11:18,460 --> 04:11:27,500
 Thank you, opposed, Larry and Sue Johnson, opposed, Cheryl McWilliams, are you wishing

3392
04:11:27,500 --> 04:11:28,500
 to speak?

3393
04:11:28,500 --> 04:11:29,500
 Yeah, absolutely.

3394
04:11:29,500 --> 04:11:30,500
 Come on down.

3395
04:11:30,500 --> 04:11:43,340
 Hi, I want to thank you guys and just reiterate, or not reiterate, but just to say that everything

3396
04:11:43,340 --> 04:11:44,340
 that is said tonight.

3397
04:11:44,340 --> 04:11:45,340
 If I could get your, I apologize.

3398
04:11:45,340 --> 04:11:46,340
 Oh, I'm sorry.

3399
04:11:46,340 --> 04:11:54,900
 I'm sorry, it's Cheryl McWilliams, 2765 Skyview Lane, Argyle, Texas.

3400
04:11:54,900 --> 04:11:58,980
 Everybody here has said everything that I've had on my mind and my heart about this rezoning

3401
04:11:58,980 --> 04:12:03,180
 change and really what I want to say is, you know, there's been several people that have

3402
04:12:03,180 --> 04:12:05,180
 asked you guys to consider voting for that tonight.

3403
04:12:05,180 --> 04:12:08,580
 I hope that is something that you guys take into consideration is to go ahead and step

3404
04:12:08,580 --> 04:12:12,420
 forward in voting on this tonight and not delaying this any further.

3405
04:12:12,420 --> 04:12:13,420
 Thank you.

3406
04:12:13,420 --> 04:12:14,420
 Thank you.

3407
04:12:14,420 --> 04:12:30,220
 Susan Fasciani, opposed, Trey Fulkerson, are you wishing to speak or are you opposed?

3408
04:12:30,220 --> 04:12:43,860
 We have Brandon Paffley, he is opposed, John King, he's opposed, Frank Boddy, opposed,

3409
04:12:43,860 --> 04:12:53,640
 thank you, Bev and Wayne Beeler, are you wishing to speak, okay, you all are opposed, Stacey

3410
04:12:53,640 --> 04:13:07,940
 Schnabel, Schnabel, opposed, Alexander Allen, opposed, Jessica Russell, is opposed, Amy

3411
04:13:07,940 --> 04:13:24,500
 Fanning, opposed, Shane Tatum, he's opposed, Lane Tidwell, opposed, Justin Jensen, are

3412
04:13:24,500 --> 04:13:26,140
 you wishing to speak?

3413
04:13:26,140 --> 04:13:27,140
 Sure.

3414
04:13:27,140 --> 04:13:28,140
 Absolutely.

3415
04:13:28,140 --> 04:13:32,900
 If you could just say your name and address, you have four minutes.

3416
04:13:32,900 --> 04:13:40,540
 Justin Jensen, 3237 Clubview Drive, just from what it is, 11 acres, 11 residents to become

3417
04:13:40,540 --> 04:13:44,420
 350, I don't think it's right, I don't think it's fair to the students, I don't think

3418
04:13:44,420 --> 04:13:48,120
 it's fair to the teachers, to severely stress that.

3419
04:13:48,120 --> 04:13:52,900
 I want to thank you guys with Denton, I happened to serve on the Argyle for a while, economic

3420
04:13:52,900 --> 04:13:57,180
 development, but I've been very impressed with you guys and very appreciative of you

3421
04:13:57,180 --> 04:13:58,940
 trying to shut this down.

3422
04:13:58,940 --> 04:14:01,980
 Please don't let them just kick this can down the road, please don't waste all of our time

3423
04:14:01,980 --> 04:14:09,420
 coming back out here again, and I thank you for your time.

3424
04:14:09,420 --> 04:14:12,420
 Thank you.

3425
04:14:12,420 --> 04:14:29,500
 Terry Boas, opposed, Lucinda Boas, opposed, John Prather, opposed, James Andrews, opposed,

3426
04:14:29,500 --> 04:14:36,860
 Andy Faceon, Faceon, opposed, Leo Faceon, and I apologize if I'm mispronouncing it,

3427
04:14:36,860 --> 04:14:39,180
 opposed, are you wishing to speak?

3428
04:14:39,180 --> 04:14:40,180
 You are wishing to speak?

3429
04:14:40,180 --> 04:14:41,180
 No.

3430
04:14:41,180 --> 04:14:42,180
 Okay.

3431
04:14:42,180 --> 04:14:45,180
 Commissioner Pernetta, you want to interject?

3432
04:14:45,180 --> 04:14:46,180
 No.

3433
04:14:46,180 --> 04:14:47,180
 Okay, perfect.

3434
04:14:47,180 --> 04:14:59,020
 Brett Reed, opposed, Steve Alcorn, he is, it's actually marked blank, so that's marked

3435
04:14:59,020 --> 04:15:13,460
 blank, Sam Slayton, okay, perfect, Jennifer Lane, marked as opposed, Brandy Mansfield,

3436
04:15:13,460 --> 04:15:25,780
 marked as opposed, oh, do you want to speak, please?

3437
04:15:25,780 --> 04:15:30,500
 Brandy Mansfield, and I'm 3101 Hornbeam Street.

3438
04:15:30,500 --> 04:15:38,180
 I spent over a year researching where we wanted to live before we picked Argyle, and the reasons

3439
04:15:38,180 --> 04:15:42,540
 we did it are for all the other reasons that people have stated today.

3440
04:15:42,540 --> 04:15:50,460
 One thing that I find interesting is when you go to Argyle Intermediate or Argyle High

3441
04:15:50,460 --> 04:15:56,460
 School, or I mean, Argyle Intermediate or the middle school, you have to go over the

3442
04:15:56,460 --> 04:16:03,100
 train tracks, and then there's a sign that's posted that says no left-hand turns during

3443
04:16:03,100 --> 04:16:08,940
 the morning at drop-off, and no left-hand turns in the afternoon during pick-up, and

3444
04:16:08,940 --> 04:16:16,420
 the reason for that is there is no lights at those areas, and to even get right out

3445
04:16:16,420 --> 04:16:22,820
 of those schools, you have to wait there for a while, and if, God forbid, any parent decides

3446
04:16:22,820 --> 04:16:30,620
 to not follow those rules and try to make a left on that in the morning, they are immediately,

3447
04:16:30,620 --> 04:16:38,740
 you know, not liked, but so this adding more people into that whole scenario is just completely

3448
04:16:38,740 --> 04:16:44,780
 unacceptable on top of, it's dangerous, so I just wanted to add that.

3449
04:16:44,780 --> 04:16:45,780
 Thank you.

3450
04:16:45,780 --> 04:16:46,780
 [ Applause ]

3451
04:16:46,780 --> 04:17:03,380
 >> Cassimira Ray, opposed, Kim Jones, she's marked opposed, Tina Brewer, she's marked

3452
04:17:03,380 --> 04:17:16,340
 opposed, Ricky Wood, OK, please do, if you could just state your name and address for

3453
04:17:16,340 --> 04:17:18,380
 the record, you have four minutes.

3454
04:17:18,380 --> 04:17:27,300
 >> Rick Wood, 8011 Wood Creek Circle in Argyle, Texas, Denton City Limits, Denton, Texas.

3455
04:17:27,300 --> 04:17:32,620
 I just want to, I'll go on record as opposed, and I want to say and encourage the commissioners,

3456
04:17:32,620 --> 04:17:37,900
 and I really appreciate your positions and the work you put in on this, but I want to

3457
04:17:37,900 --> 04:17:42,220
 go on record to encourage that you vote this down now.

3458
04:17:42,220 --> 04:17:47,020
 These guys will come back with, you know, a slightly altered plan, we'll do this again,

3459
04:17:47,020 --> 04:17:53,860
 it feels like we're under assault, they're building a six-lane brush creek out of a two-lane

3460
04:17:53,860 --> 04:17:57,900
 brush creek, you know, I've been to two or three of these meetings in the past couple

3461
04:17:57,900 --> 04:18:04,740
 of months, either about the road or this property, and I think you should put this one to bed,

3462
04:18:04,740 --> 04:18:09,060
 these guys are serial developers, they have over a hundred shell companies, cross-development,

3463
04:18:09,060 --> 04:18:15,140
 there's a hundred different LLCs that they've formed, the people in Wiley had the same thing

3464
04:18:15,140 --> 04:18:19,780
 happen to them except they built the apartment complex, and it's a disaster, the residents,

3465
04:18:19,780 --> 04:18:23,860
 you know, there's people going to lose their city council seats because of it, I just want

3466
04:18:23,860 --> 04:18:32,420
 to go on record as strong opposition, my neighbors, good people, and we're all pretty passionate

3467
04:18:32,420 --> 04:18:35,420
 about where we live.

3468
04:18:35,420 --> 04:18:40,660
 Thank you very much.

3469
04:18:40,660 --> 04:18:51,980
 The next card I have is Amanda Falvey-Wood, okay, thank you, Mark's supposed, and Colin

3470
04:18:51,980 --> 04:18:57,900
 Brooks, okay, he's marked opposed.

3471
04:18:57,900 --> 04:19:02,780
 That is all the cards I have, is there anyone, this is a public hearing, is there anyone

3472
04:19:02,780 --> 04:19:12,580
 who would like to speak who hasn't had an opportunity or hasn't filled out a card?

3473
04:19:12,580 --> 04:19:21,620
 Okay, so at this point, Mr. Dahlstrom, you requested at the very beginning your excess

3474
04:19:21,620 --> 04:19:26,940
 time to be granted, and so I want to provide you those three minutes.

3475
04:19:26,940 --> 04:19:35,340
 My legs got tied up there, no, I had, I guess, three extra minutes, but in the interest of

3476
04:19:35,340 --> 04:19:39,500
 time, I won't go through my rebuttal, I've got a lot of comments, again, we respectfully

3477
04:19:39,500 --> 04:19:43,620
 request that we postpone this indefinitely to allow us to go back to the drawing board

3478
04:19:43,620 --> 04:19:49,700
 and to continue actually working with the neighborhoods like we want to, so thank you.

3479
04:19:49,700 --> 04:19:52,540
 Thank you.

3480
04:19:52,540 --> 04:20:00,140
 This is a public hearing, anyone wishing to speak on the item may certainly do so.

3481
04:20:00,140 --> 04:20:03,940
 Seeing none, I am going to close the public hearing and turn it to the dais for any questions

3482
04:20:03,940 --> 04:20:07,860
 they might have, discussion or motion?

3483
04:20:07,860 --> 04:20:09,860
 Commissioner Smith.

3484
04:20:09,860 --> 04:20:11,980
 Thank you, Chair.

3485
04:20:11,980 --> 04:20:19,420
 The indefinitely, how long can we, does it indefinitely give us, I know we were looking,

3486
04:20:19,420 --> 04:20:25,980
 it was just because we were just confused on dates, but that indefinitely.

3487
04:20:25,980 --> 04:20:31,940
 It could be indefinitely, literally indefinitely.

3488
04:20:31,940 --> 04:20:36,420
 It could essentially come to an impasse where they just ask to move forward, but whether

3489
04:20:36,420 --> 04:20:42,940
 that's two weeks, a month, three months, I mean, it's anybody's guess.

3490
04:20:42,940 --> 04:20:43,940
 Commissioner Anderson.

3491
04:20:43,940 --> 04:20:44,940
 Thank you, Chair.

3492
04:20:44,940 --> 04:20:53,500
 First of all, this is my third meeting on the commission, so bear with me for a second,

3493
04:20:53,500 --> 04:20:58,140
 but anyway, I would like to thank Mr. Dahlstrom and the MMRQ people for coming out and giving

3494
04:20:58,140 --> 04:21:02,340
 your speech and representing it, and thank each of you for coming out and speaking.

3495
04:21:02,340 --> 04:21:06,700
 It's not about voicing your concerns about your city, I can hear the passion and your

3496
04:21:06,700 --> 04:21:11,620
 love for your city and your property and your voices, but I agree with each of you regarding

3497
04:21:11,620 --> 04:21:15,620
 your concerns about the infrastructure of the schools and the nature of the beauty of

3498
04:21:15,620 --> 04:21:16,620
 the country.

3499
04:21:16,620 --> 04:21:23,340
 I lived in the country in a PowerPoint for 12 years, so I can really, I can feel you.

3500
04:21:23,340 --> 04:21:27,860
 Along with you don't see this being a good fit for the community, and after hearing your

3501
04:21:27,860 --> 04:21:32,940
 concerns and speaking in opposition and the reading of all the cards, I just recommend

3502
04:21:32,940 --> 04:21:36,660
 we go ahead and put this matter to bed and take a vote on it tonight instead of kicking

3503
04:21:36,660 --> 04:21:37,660
 it down the road.

3504
04:21:37,660 --> 04:21:49,700
 Thank you very much, and I'll see you next time.

3505
04:21:49,700 --> 04:21:50,700
 [Applause]

3506
04:21:50,700 --> 04:21:55,260
 >> I have a few moments to say a few things before I offer the motion, or just the motion?

3507
04:21:55,260 --> 04:21:59,420
 >> No, you have the floor since you've asked for a motion.

3508
04:21:59,420 --> 04:22:08,620
 I'll go ahead and offer, put forth the motion to postpone indefinitely then.

3509
04:22:08,620 --> 04:22:17,420
 >> Okay, we have a first for a motion to postpone, do we have a second?

3510
04:22:17,420 --> 04:22:18,420
 Seeing none, motion fails.

3511
04:22:18,420 --> 04:22:19,420
 >> Thank you.

3512
04:22:19,420 --> 04:22:20,420
 >> Commissioner Beck.

3513
04:22:20,420 --> 04:22:23,380
 >> Yeah, I have a question for the city.

3514
04:22:23,380 --> 04:22:24,380
 >> Can you raise your mic, please?

3515
04:22:24,380 --> 04:22:27,460
 >> I have a question for the city.

3516
04:22:27,460 --> 04:22:33,500
 If we had postponed, are there additional requirements for additional community meetings,

3517
04:22:33,500 --> 04:22:38,980
 or have the existing requirements for community meetings been met and would continue to have

3518
04:22:38,980 --> 04:22:41,980
 been met?

3519
04:22:41,980 --> 04:22:51,540
 >> Excuse me, the DDC has the community meetings as optional, however, if that, I mean, the

3520
04:22:51,540 --> 04:22:59,140
 motion did fail, however, to me, the direction was that there would be multiple community

3521
04:22:59,140 --> 04:23:04,300
 meetings to try to work to a resolution.

3522
04:23:04,300 --> 04:23:10,740
 >> Okay, and I have a second question for the city, and that is, if this is voted down

3523
04:23:10,740 --> 04:23:17,940
 at this point, the surrounding areas on the street itself are MN, correct?

3524
04:23:17,940 --> 04:23:21,120
 Wasn't that in the city's presentation?

3525
04:23:21,120 --> 04:23:25,120
 >> To the, there are some MN to the north and south, I believe.

3526
04:23:25,120 --> 04:23:34,760
 >> Okay, and how would that impact the city's decision to have a completely unrelated application

3527
04:23:34,760 --> 04:23:40,420
 go in that interstitial, like if they can't be MN because it has to be substantially different,

3528
04:23:40,420 --> 04:23:42,340
 how does that impact?

3529
04:23:42,340 --> 04:23:48,780
 >> We would have to look, I would want to say right off the cuff of how we would treat

3530
04:23:48,780 --> 04:23:53,740
 a future category, it would all depend, I mean, there's a multitude that they could

3531
04:23:53,740 --> 04:23:55,220
 look to include in that area.

3532
04:23:55,220 --> 04:23:58,060
 >> After a year, they can come back in, right?

3533
04:23:58,060 --> 04:24:02,340
 >> A year later, I mean, if it were to go all the way to council, council were to deny,

3534
04:24:02,340 --> 04:24:06,260
 365 days later, they could apply again for MN.

3535
04:24:06,260 --> 04:24:11,060
 >> Commissioner Cole, we're going to have to wait on you since you have a motion on

3536
04:24:11,060 --> 04:24:12,060
 the table.

3537
04:24:12,060 --> 04:24:13,060
 It's Commissioner Smith.

3538
04:24:13,060 --> 04:24:15,600
 >> I'd like to make a motion to deny.

3539
04:24:15,600 --> 04:24:17,420
 >> We have a first for denial, Commissioner Panetta.

3540
04:24:17,420 --> 04:24:18,420
 >> I'll second the motion.

3541
04:24:18,420 --> 04:24:27,580
 >> We have a first and a second for denial, do you no longer want to speak?

3542
04:24:27,580 --> 04:24:32,820
 >> This is what I was wanting to do is get this, put this to bed, I mean, the applicant,

3543
04:24:32,820 --> 04:24:43,300
 they deserve a quick, painless death, it shouldn't linger, I mean, I don't see the facts on the

3544
04:24:43,300 --> 04:24:46,020
 ground changing in six months.

3545
04:24:46,020 --> 04:24:48,940
 That's what I view, or a year even.

3546
04:24:48,940 --> 04:24:51,660
 >> Thank you, Commissioner, Commissioner Panetta.

3547
04:24:51,660 --> 04:24:58,060
 >> Yeah, so I just kind of wanted to go over a few things and kind of cover my thoughts

3548
04:24:58,060 --> 04:25:05,980
 on the odyssey that this has been for tonight, and do you know why I second in this motion?

3549
04:25:05,980 --> 04:25:11,140
 So just a little background, I moved up to Denton in like in 1992, and back then Denton

3550
04:25:11,140 --> 04:25:16,520
 was this little island far away from everything, and the drive to Fort Worth was this serene

3551
04:25:16,520 --> 04:25:23,900
 thing with just greenness and cows, and now when I go down there, it's beige-brown rooftops,

3552
04:25:23,900 --> 04:25:30,500
 and every now and then, we have the opportunity up here to actually shape what's actually

3553
04:25:30,500 --> 04:25:34,000
 going to be happening in the community going forward.

3554
04:25:34,000 --> 04:25:39,260
 We had a very successful negotiation heading to the northeast very recently, where we were

3555
04:25:39,260 --> 04:25:51,020
 able to preserve some rural, as opposed to going into a very dense apartment-type situation.

3556
04:25:51,020 --> 04:25:55,300
 What I'd hoped would happen would be that the developer could get back together with

3557
04:25:55,300 --> 04:26:00,780
 the community, and we could work out something that would be amenable, because you look at

3558
04:26:00,780 --> 04:26:04,780
 377, we all know that there's going to be change coming at some point.

3559
04:26:04,780 --> 04:26:09,260
 The question is how do we manage that change, and how do we preserve the spirit of what

3560
04:26:09,260 --> 04:26:14,340
 people want in that area, and that's what I'd like to see.

3561
04:26:14,340 --> 04:26:22,240
 To the developer, the reason I'm kind of going with a denial on this one was when we looked

3562
04:26:22,240 --> 04:26:28,420
 at a postponement, and the idea of a postponement indefinitely meant it could be six months,

3563
04:26:28,420 --> 04:26:32,940
 indefinitely meant it could be six weeks, one of the things that I didn't want to see

3564
04:26:32,940 --> 04:26:40,900
 happen would be a situation where in a month something comes back, and because of time

3565
04:26:40,900 --> 04:26:46,260
 constraints and because of the burden put on a community that wants to speak for itself,

3566
04:26:46,260 --> 04:26:53,700
 if we came back and instead of over 100 people, we had 20.

3567
04:26:53,700 --> 04:26:58,980
 Through the process of just attrition, we wound up not getting a true sense of what

3568
04:26:58,980 --> 04:27:01,740
 the community wanted.

3569
04:27:01,740 --> 04:27:07,340
 Hopefully we can look at a denial as an opportunity to come back with something that would be

3570
04:27:07,340 --> 04:27:13,740
 more fitting, and possibly also more profitable for you guys, because we know that the right

3571
04:27:13,740 --> 04:27:17,620
 thing out there, based on what we've seen in other communities, can still turn a lot

3572
04:27:17,620 --> 04:27:21,700
 of money while making everybody happy and preserving the spirit.

3573
04:27:21,700 --> 04:27:27,020
 I'm going to be voting to deny this.

3574
04:27:27,020 --> 04:27:31,260
 We know this will come back, because the people still own the property, and hopefully the

3575
04:27:31,260 --> 04:27:36,340
 next thing we see will be something that is in keeping with what the community wants.

3576
04:27:36,340 --> 04:27:37,340
 Thank you.

3577
04:27:37,340 --> 04:27:38,340
 Questioner Smith.

3578
04:27:38,340 --> 04:27:39,340
 Thank you, Chair.

3579
04:27:39,340 --> 04:27:45,940
 I didn't really say much with my denial, I don't think I really need to, I think we've

3580
04:27:45,940 --> 04:27:48,500
 all talked about it in circles.

3581
04:27:48,500 --> 04:27:55,460
 Honestly, I think this project was kind of doomed from the start, and so I've got no

3582
04:27:55,460 --> 04:28:00,460
 problem with development, even if it's surrounded by rural land, we've voted on plenty of other

3583
04:28:00,460 --> 04:28:04,660
 projects that have had development that have been surrounded by farmland, I just don't

3584
04:28:04,660 --> 04:28:09,340
 agree with the density, and I hope that this denial will show to the applicant that if

3585
04:28:09,340 --> 04:28:13,500
 you come back with a less dense project, something that's essentially different, even coming

3586
04:28:13,500 --> 04:28:17,660
 back with a PD that changes, it's not the MN, so it is substantially different underneath

3587
04:28:17,660 --> 04:28:21,700
 the denial rules, that you could probably bring back something that's a little more

3588
04:28:21,700 --> 04:28:26,500
 amenable to the rest of the neighborhood, and something that hopefully tonight our comments

3589
04:28:26,500 --> 04:28:30,020
 have given you direction of what we think we're amenable to as well, what we think is

3590
04:28:30,020 --> 04:28:31,020
 right for the city.

3591
04:28:31,020 --> 04:28:32,020
 So, thanks.

3592
04:28:32,020 --> 04:28:37,780
 I don't see any other discussion, but before we put this to a vote, I just wanted to say

3593
04:28:37,780 --> 04:28:40,540
 one thing, I haven't spoken yet on this.

3594
04:28:40,540 --> 04:28:45,320
 First, I've said to several of you that I've talked on the phone and emailed that you being

3595
04:28:45,320 --> 04:28:50,620
 here is important, and so hiring a babysitter, I have a sick two-year-old at home right now,

3596
04:28:50,620 --> 04:28:56,740
 I sympathize with you, and doing all the things sacrificially to be here is important.

3597
04:28:56,740 --> 04:29:04,540
 It helps contextualize our ignorance, potentially, on the area that you all call home, and so

3598
04:29:04,540 --> 04:29:09,460
 thanks for spending three hours with us and sharing your own personal perspectives on

3599
04:29:09,460 --> 04:29:10,460
 this.

3600
04:29:10,460 --> 04:29:16,140
 It shapes how we can best cultivate our city, and we had an interesting tension today because

3601
04:29:16,140 --> 04:29:22,380
 it's City of Denton, but Argyle ISD, and so as much as we're appointed by city officials

3602
04:29:22,380 --> 04:29:27,420
 for the City of Denton, we also wanna be good neighbors to Argyle ISD and the other jurisdictions

3603
04:29:27,420 --> 04:29:35,660
 that we share, and I think just I might bring up after you all leave the potential to see

3604
04:29:35,660 --> 04:29:40,220
 if there's any way we can nuance ETJ notices.

3605
04:29:40,220 --> 04:29:41,220
 There might be opportunities.

3606
04:29:41,220 --> 04:29:47,300
 I know there's a lot of notification laws, but it seems like you have five houses, you

3607
04:29:47,300 --> 04:29:49,100
 could just hand-deliver five pieces.

3608
04:29:49,100 --> 04:29:52,860
 But I appreciate that feedback for this evening.

3609
04:29:52,860 --> 04:29:56,780
 I appreciate all the work that our city staff does.

3610
04:29:56,780 --> 04:30:03,180
 I know Cindy has been working hard on this to go through the analysis, and I'm certain

3611
04:30:03,180 --> 04:30:07,700
 that there's a lot of hard work, and answering emails and phone calls that she got, I just

3612
04:30:07,700 --> 04:30:11,580
 respectfully disagree with the analysis that was completed on the property.

3613
04:30:11,580 --> 04:30:15,100
 I've spent four years on P&Z, and I have a long history of being frustrated with the

3614
04:30:15,100 --> 04:30:16,340
 future land use map.

3615
04:30:16,340 --> 04:30:18,940
 We call it the flume.

3616
04:30:18,940 --> 04:30:23,300
 It doesn't make sense, and I've asked for it to be updated, because it's not in alignment

3617
04:30:23,300 --> 04:30:25,740
 with what's actually on the ground happening.

3618
04:30:25,740 --> 04:30:29,940
 For instance, north of Lute 288 on Sherman Drive, it says that should all be rural, and

3619
04:30:29,940 --> 04:30:35,540
 that's not what's taking place, and so it seems as though the flume is not helpful across

3620
04:30:35,540 --> 04:30:41,100
 the board in understanding where the trajectory of our city's going.

3621
04:30:41,100 --> 04:30:44,820
 And with that, the mobility plan shows that all that will be expanded.

3622
04:30:44,820 --> 04:30:49,700
 Brush Creek, I think, is a 10-year project, 377 might be a little bit quicker than that.

3623
04:30:49,700 --> 04:30:52,900
 But the future land use map, if you're going to go by that, is assuming the future of the

3624
04:30:52,900 --> 04:30:53,900
 mobility plan.

3625
04:30:53,900 --> 04:31:00,260
 And so it seems as though if Brush Creek becomes a six-lane road, and 377 is built out, we

3626
04:31:00,260 --> 04:31:03,060
 need to assess what the property on the ground is at that point.

3627
04:31:03,060 --> 04:31:07,300
 And so I don't know what happens to P&Z 10 years from now on that intersection, but I

3628
04:31:07,300 --> 04:31:10,860
 think tonight it's not an apartment.

3629
04:31:10,860 --> 04:31:16,340
 And with that, I've also complained significantly about the amount of zoning we get to do on

3630
04:31:16,340 --> 04:31:18,300
 this commission and not a lot of planning.

3631
04:31:18,300 --> 04:31:23,540
 And so by title, I enjoy both aspects, planning and zoning, and tonight the commission gets

3632
04:31:23,540 --> 04:31:26,180
 the rare opportunity to actually plan for our city.

3633
04:31:26,180 --> 04:31:30,780
 And so in that way, we can protect it in a significant way.

3634
04:31:30,780 --> 04:31:37,820
 So my motion, or my support will be for denial this evening, and I appreciate all your time

3635
04:31:37,820 --> 04:31:40,260
 coming out this evening.

3636
04:31:40,260 --> 04:31:42,780
 Seeing no other discussion, I'm going to call for a vote on the board.

3637
04:31:42,780 --> 04:31:48,340
 Please remember that a vote to approve is to deny.

3638
04:31:48,340 --> 04:31:52,540
 So the green button is deny.

3639
04:31:52,540 --> 04:31:57,180
 It's a negative motion, so it gets confusing.

3640
04:31:57,180 --> 04:32:06,300
 With that, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3641
04:32:06,300 --> 04:32:16,020
 Motion carries 6-0.

3642
04:32:16,020 --> 04:32:18,740
 Real fast, this goes to council.

3643
04:32:18,740 --> 04:32:20,500
 It doesn't die here.

3644
04:32:20,500 --> 04:32:23,140
 So the advocacy needs to continue.

3645
04:32:23,140 --> 04:32:26,380
 It's now in council's hand going forward.

3646
04:32:26,380 --> 04:32:28,400
 At this time, I'm going to call a break for the...

3647
04:32:28,400 --> 04:32:29,940
 Oh, Richard, what's going on?

3648
04:32:29,940 --> 04:32:35,660
 Just wanted to announce here, I know some of you have gotten the notice, some have not,

3649
04:32:35,660 --> 04:32:40,140
 but for those that are in attendance this evening, this is scheduled to go to city council

3650
04:32:40,140 --> 04:32:42,020
 November 5th.

3651
04:32:42,020 --> 04:32:46,660
 The only reason that it would not go to November 5th is if for some reason the applicant would

3652
04:32:46,660 --> 04:32:51,420
 ask for a withdrawal or even a postponement.

3653
04:32:51,420 --> 04:32:57,860
 But again, this was noticed, so it will be on the agenda regardless for November 5th

3654
04:32:57,860 --> 04:32:58,860
 at city council.

3655
04:32:58,860 --> 04:33:08,320
 With that, I'm going to call for a 10-minute break to clear the room.

3656
04:33:08,320 --> 04:33:09,320
 Thank you.

3657
04:33:09,320 --> 04:33:10,320
 Thank you for the quick recess.

3658
04:33:10,320 --> 04:33:13,380
 I'll call the meeting back to order at 945.

3659
04:33:13,380 --> 04:33:20,940
 The next item of business is item 5G, DCA 19-0012, and I'll invite Haley Zagorski for

3660
04:33:20,940 --> 04:33:23,580
 a presentation and open the public hearing.

3661
04:33:23,580 --> 04:33:29,180
 This is a proposed approvement for the medical use standards.

3662
04:33:29,180 --> 04:33:33,340
 The request before you is to consider making a recommendation to the city council regarding

3663
04:33:33,340 --> 04:33:38,940
 revisions to subchapter 5 of the 2019 Denton Development Code to amend the use specific

3664
04:33:38,940 --> 04:33:46,060
 standards for medical offices and medical clinics within the mixed use regional district.

3665
04:33:46,060 --> 04:33:50,480
 Looking at this map, you can see the darker purple color on the map represents the MR district.

3666
04:33:50,480 --> 04:33:57,180
 This was transitioned from the RCCN and RCCD districts under the 2002 code, primarily is

3667
04:33:57,180 --> 04:34:03,500
 located along arterial roadways and major highway interchanges at our regional centers.

3668
04:34:03,500 --> 04:34:07,940
 It's worth noting that both of Denton's major hospitals and all of their surrounding supportive

3669
04:34:07,940 --> 04:34:11,700
 uses such as offices and clinics are located within the MR district, and I called those

3670
04:34:11,700 --> 04:34:15,820
 out on the map with the black stars.

3671
04:34:15,820 --> 04:34:20,980
 The DDC defines a medical clinic as an establishment that provides for medical or surgical services

3672
04:34:20,980 --> 04:34:22,780
 primarily on an outpatient basis.

3673
04:34:22,780 --> 04:34:26,940
 It can be either walk-in or appointment-based operations.

3674
04:34:26,940 --> 04:34:32,700
 Examples would be an ambulatory surgical center, a renal disease facility for dialysis, outpatient

3675
04:34:32,700 --> 04:34:36,460
 services, and freestanding ERs.

3676
04:34:36,460 --> 04:34:40,340
 Medical offices, on the other hand, are more appointment-based, your typical dentist and

3677
04:34:40,340 --> 04:34:45,040
 doctor's office type operations where you can have consultations and appointments for

3678
04:34:45,040 --> 04:34:49,180
 any sort of medicinal purposes.

3679
04:34:49,180 --> 04:34:55,220
 Looking back at the 2002 code and the RCCN and RCCD district, medical clinics were permitted

3680
04:34:55,220 --> 04:34:57,580
 by right with no limitations.

3681
04:34:57,580 --> 04:35:02,940
 Medical offices were limited to no more than 10,000 square feet of floor area only in RCCN.

3682
04:35:02,940 --> 04:35:06,380
 Within RCCD, they were permitted by right.

3683
04:35:06,380 --> 04:35:11,200
 Within the 2019 code, it seems that we inadvertently placed limitations on those that would make

3684
04:35:11,200 --> 04:35:14,300
 a lot of those existing facilities nonconforming.

3685
04:35:14,300 --> 04:35:16,140
 So we're looking to correct that this evening.

3686
04:35:16,140 --> 04:35:22,740
 So we're looking to take away the 10,000 square foot size limitation per lot for medical clinics.

3687
04:35:22,740 --> 04:35:27,620
 The only limitation on those within MR would be that the main entries and ambulance loading

3688
04:35:27,620 --> 04:35:30,260
 zones not face residential zoning categories.

3689
04:35:30,260 --> 04:35:34,900
 We do have several instances across the city where MR abuts residential uses, so we felt

3690
04:35:34,900 --> 04:35:37,100
 it is important to maintain that.

3691
04:35:37,100 --> 04:35:41,140
 And then medical office, we would propose to remove all of the limitations within the

3692
04:35:41,140 --> 04:35:47,220
 MR district to allow those to be permitted by right again, as they were under RCCD.

3693
04:35:47,220 --> 04:35:51,580
 So this is just a snapshot of what you had in your backup with related to the code amendments.

3694
04:35:51,580 --> 04:35:54,820
 Just a very minimal redlining there.

3695
04:35:54,820 --> 04:35:57,880
 As I mentioned, medical clinic would still have the loading zone restriction.

3696
04:35:57,880 --> 04:36:01,180
 Medical offices would now be permitted by right.

3697
04:36:01,180 --> 04:36:07,500
 So staff is recommending approval of this request, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

3698
04:36:07,500 --> 04:36:08,500
 Thank you, Haley.

3699
04:36:08,500 --> 04:36:10,020
 I don't see any questions.

3700
04:36:10,020 --> 04:36:11,020
 This is a public hearing.

3701
04:36:11,020 --> 04:36:13,000
 If anyone wishes to speak, they may certainly do so.

3702
04:36:13,000 --> 04:36:16,820
 We've got two nos in the room.

3703
04:36:16,820 --> 04:36:18,500
 With that, I will close the public hearing.

3704
04:36:18,500 --> 04:36:19,660
 Commissioner Panetta.

3705
04:36:19,660 --> 04:36:20,900
 >> Motion to approve.

3706
04:36:20,900 --> 04:36:22,540
 >> Commissioner Anderson.

3707
04:36:22,540 --> 04:36:24,180
 >> Second the motion.

3708
04:36:24,180 --> 04:36:25,700
 >> We have a first and a second for approval.

3709
04:36:25,700 --> 04:36:27,460
 Seeing no discussion, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3710
04:36:27,460 --> 04:36:36,060
 Motion carries 6-0.

3711
04:36:36,060 --> 04:36:41,300
 Next item of business is item 5H DCA 19-0013.

3712
04:36:41,300 --> 04:36:45,980
 I'll invite Richard Kinone to present, open the public hearing, and allow Commissioner Cole to step away.

3713
04:36:45,980 --> 04:37:01,460
 >> Chair Commissioners, the item in front of you this evening is just a simply housekeeping item, for lack of a better way to put it.

3714
04:37:01,460 --> 04:37:11,700
 What it does is it creates a subsection, it creates a different subsection within 1.7 which deals with transition from prior regulations.

3715
04:37:11,700 --> 04:37:20,900
 And essentially what this does is this just incorporates the existing MPCs into the 2019 DDC as Appendix C.

3716
04:37:20,900 --> 04:37:31,060
 And this one slide for the most part sums it up, the ordinance DCA 18-0009U was recently adopted.

3717
04:37:31,060 --> 04:37:34,660
 This is the ordinance that adopted the new zoning map.

3718
04:37:34,660 --> 04:37:43,460
 What I've highlighted there is paragraph two of section two which recognizes the MPCs and the ordinances that govern them.

3719
04:37:43,460 --> 04:37:53,860
 The transition table which was attached to that ordinance, as you can see highlighted in yellow, MPC remained MPC, it didn't transfer to any other district.

3720
04:37:53,860 --> 04:38:03,580
 And so really what this does is adds this language, which is essentially a mirror of what was in that paragraph two of section two of the ordinance.

3721
04:38:03,580 --> 04:38:08,660
 Recognizes the four existing MPCs that we have, and those ordinances governing them.

3722
04:38:08,660 --> 04:38:18,620
 And essentially puts it a place to keep those within the DDC as a reference as opposed to having to search all over for them somewhere else.

3723
04:38:18,620 --> 04:38:21,460
 That's really all that does.

3724
04:38:24,100 --> 04:38:24,900
 Thank you for the presentation.

3725
04:38:24,900 --> 04:38:27,940
 I don't see any questions.

3726
04:38:27,940 --> 04:38:28,780
 This is a public hearing.

3727
04:38:28,780 --> 04:38:30,180
 Anyone wish to speak may certainly do so.

3728
04:38:30,180 --> 04:38:33,060
 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing.

3729
04:38:33,060 --> 04:38:34,500
 Commissioner Smith?

3730
04:38:34,500 --> 04:38:35,260
 >> Motion to approve.

3731
04:38:35,260 --> 04:38:35,900
 >> We have a first.

3732
04:38:35,900 --> 04:38:37,100
 Commissioner Anderson?

3733
04:38:37,100 --> 04:38:38,020
 >> I second the vote.

3734
04:38:38,020 --> 04:38:40,020
 >> We have a first and a second for approval.

3735
04:38:40,020 --> 04:38:42,060
 Seeing no discussion, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3736
04:38:42,060 --> 04:38:51,340
 Motion carries five, zero, one, or Cusal.

3737
04:38:51,340 --> 04:38:59,940
 I invite Commissioner Cole back to the dais, and we'll go to the next item for business, item 6A, the planning and zoning matrix.

3738
04:38:59,940 --> 04:39:06,340
 I will turn to Richard for reports, and then open it for additional items or questions.

3739
04:39:06,340 --> 04:39:07,980
 >> Just a quick update.

3740
04:39:07,980 --> 04:39:12,780
 Council did approve the Alt ESA last night for Fisher 59, so that was approved.

3741
04:39:12,780 --> 04:39:16,580
 That was just sort of an update on some past action.

3742
04:39:16,580 --> 04:39:18,540
 Just wanted to update a couple things.

3743
04:39:18,540 --> 04:39:24,180
 As I mentioned, we do have the 2019 code now in effect for about two weeks.

3744
04:39:24,180 --> 04:39:34,420
 We have the new zoning map uploaded, updated on the interactive website through our GIS, so all of that is up to date.

3745
04:39:34,420 --> 04:39:38,180
 I also wanted to, while we're on the new code,

3746
04:39:38,180 --> 04:39:45,100
 we did get notice from the Texas APA that we have won an award for best practices.

3747
04:39:45,100 --> 04:39:54,020
 So we will be at the state conference in a few weeks to accept that award on behalf of the-

3748
04:39:54,020 --> 04:39:55,220
 >> When do our bonus checks come in?

3749
04:39:55,220 --> 04:39:58,300
 >> I was wondering, where is our invite?

3750
04:39:58,300 --> 04:39:59,460
 >> In a year.

3751
04:39:59,460 --> 04:40:01,340
 >> In a year?

3752
04:40:01,340 --> 04:40:02,940
 >> In a year.

3753
04:40:02,940 --> 04:40:07,460
 The only other item I wanted to touch base or highlight, and

3754
04:40:07,460 --> 04:40:12,500
 I think I brought this up at the last, the previous work session or

3755
04:40:12,500 --> 04:40:16,180
 previous council meeting, is part of the budget year,

3756
04:40:16,180 --> 04:40:21,060
 council did approve funds for an update to the comprehensive plan.

3757
04:40:21,060 --> 04:40:23,340
 I think we talked about that the last meeting.

3758
04:40:23,340 --> 04:40:26,860
 So we are in the process of getting that RFP out.

3759
04:40:26,860 --> 04:40:31,500
 So the first part again will be to really do a thorough analysis of what we did, what we didn't do.

3760
04:40:31,500 --> 04:40:39,820
 But I think this is a good opportunity in the next year to really put some kind of roll up our sleeves and

3761
04:40:39,820 --> 04:40:45,700
 really take a hard look at what some of these land use categories and where those designations are.

3762
04:40:45,700 --> 04:40:48,580
 Do they still make sense, and how do we want to grow?

3763
04:40:48,580 --> 04:40:56,300
 So that planning will come back in a little while and in full force for the most part.

3764
04:40:56,300 --> 04:41:03,060
 I mean, this is really the guiding document that we refer to on a lot of our particular decisions for zoning.

3765
04:41:03,060 --> 04:41:07,540
 But that will be back in the very near future.

3766
04:41:07,540 --> 04:41:08,940
 That was all I had.

3767
04:41:08,940 --> 04:41:12,540
 >> Thanks for the update, Christopher Smith.

3768
04:41:12,540 --> 04:41:17,140
 >> Not to take Chair Rozelle's thunder here, but I was thinking this earlier.

3769
04:41:17,140 --> 04:41:20,860
 >> That's never a good way to start a sentence.

3770
04:41:20,860 --> 04:41:25,020
 >> But we need to do something about the ETJ notifications.

3771
04:41:25,020 --> 04:41:30,860
 I brought that up in a different time, Richard, for a different case, probably about 18 months to two years ago.

3772
04:41:30,860 --> 04:41:35,820
 And I don't know how it fell off the matrix or if it was addressed and I just wasn't paying attention.

3773
04:41:35,820 --> 04:41:42,020
 But we need to do something about the ETJ notification, especially if you're right there.

3774
04:41:42,020 --> 04:41:45,500
 If you're within that 200 foot boundary, you're right there.

3775
04:41:45,500 --> 04:41:50,460
 I know by law it's not required, but the law is a set of minimums, am I correct, Jerry?

3776
04:41:50,460 --> 04:41:54,460
 It's not a set of things that we have to follow to the letter, it's a set of minimums.

3777
04:41:54,460 --> 04:41:57,260
 We can go above and beyond the minimum.

3778
04:41:57,260 --> 04:42:02,580
 It doesn't seem like it's that hard if we can see that there are domiciles that are within that 500 foot buffer or

3779
04:42:02,580 --> 04:42:10,580
 just the 200 foot buffer that they can't count for the majority notice, for the supermajority requirement.

3780
04:42:10,580 --> 04:42:12,700
 But they can still get a notification.

3781
04:42:12,700 --> 04:42:17,260
 >> Sure, did I understand that the sentencing, courtesy notifications though?

3782
04:42:17,260 --> 04:42:20,140
 >> That's what I thought I heard Cindy say.

3783
04:42:20,140 --> 04:42:23,860
 >> Yeah, I believe that the courtesy notice, there's two notices that go out.

3784
04:42:23,860 --> 04:42:29,580
 It's the 200 foot notice goes to those property owners within the city.

3785
04:42:29,580 --> 04:42:33,460
 The 500 foot notice- >> Still goes within the EPA?

3786
04:42:33,460 --> 04:42:39,980
 >> Goes 500 feet around to the, and I think the gentleman had made a statement about the occupant.

3787
04:42:39,980 --> 04:42:44,300
 And the reason it states occupant- >> So really it was they threw it away, they just weren't paying attention.

3788
04:42:44,300 --> 04:42:52,060
 >> Yeah, and in fact, I think the Chair had mentioned that one time where he almost threw the postcard away.

3789
04:42:52,060 --> 04:42:57,580
 >> Can we see the, can we next time make this the matrix item?

3790
04:42:57,580 --> 04:42:59,420
 Can we see what the notifications look like?

3791
04:42:59,420 --> 04:42:59,980
 >> Certainly.

3792
04:42:59,980 --> 04:43:03,660
 >> I've never, I've never, I take it back, I have seen them because I've had zoning stuff happen there.

3793
04:43:03,660 --> 04:43:06,060
 But show those postcards that I hadn't seen in a while.

3794
04:43:06,060 --> 04:43:10,140
 But is there a way that we can give feedback possibly at a work session and say, hey,

3795
04:43:10,140 --> 04:43:17,420
 here's some ways we can make it look a little bit more attention grabbing rather than just being the standard junk mail look alike.

3796
04:43:17,420 --> 04:43:25,140
 >> I will include that either at our next work session or the following.

3797
04:43:25,140 --> 04:43:29,140
 Charlie in our office has been really working on revamping a lot of that.

3798
04:43:30,180 --> 04:43:35,700
 Almost going to a color coded model where it's easily recognizable.

3799
04:43:35,700 --> 04:43:40,500
 So you'll notice the sign, if it's a rezoning, it might be blue, if it's an SUV, it might be red.

3800
04:43:40,500 --> 04:43:46,300
 And so just try to brand it a little bit more and make it a little bit more user friendly and identifiable.

3801
04:43:46,300 --> 04:43:51,060
 But let me coordinate with him and, but I will add that to the matrix to bring that.

3802
04:43:51,060 --> 04:43:58,740
 >> Thanks. >> But yeah, the city limits ones are taking off municipal tax roll, which obviously is not going to be ETJ.

3803
04:43:58,740 --> 04:44:02,860
 So they're going to have to figure out a different way to do the courtesy notifications.

3804
04:44:02,860 --> 04:44:11,980
 And as I think Mr. Smith pointed out the Strong versus Grand Prairie case says that they can't count for anything if they're not in the city limits.

3805
04:44:11,980 --> 04:44:13,940
 >> Yeah, and I get that part and that's fine.

3806
04:44:13,940 --> 04:44:16,460
 But we can't pull from the county tax rolls?

3807
04:44:16,460 --> 04:44:22,740
 >> I'm sure you'd pull it from anything if it's going to be a courtesy notification.

3808
04:44:22,740 --> 04:44:26,940
 I mean, whatever is the easiest way to do it or the best way.

3809
04:44:28,260 --> 04:44:35,900
 >> Yeah, I know at one point, sorry, we were looking at even the municipal water bills, I think, for the 500 foot notice.

3810
04:44:35,900 --> 04:44:40,940
 Part of the issue then is in some of the rural areas where they might be on well.

3811
04:44:40,940 --> 04:44:46,620
 >> Well, yeah, but you know, DCAD, you could find that stuff pretty quickly I think, so.

3812
04:44:46,620 --> 04:44:52,580
 >> I understand the 200, 500 foot rule in a city, but like I said earlier,

3813
04:44:52,580 --> 04:44:56,500
 I lived in Palo Point for 12 years and I lived on three and a quarter acres.

3814
04:44:56,500 --> 04:45:03,620
 And if we use the 200 or 500 foot rule, I had frontage of 350 feet.

3815
04:45:03,620 --> 04:45:07,820
 So if you do 200 feet, only myself was going to be getting the notification.

3816
04:45:07,820 --> 04:45:12,860
 So I think if it's in a rural community, I think we should look outside that.

3817
04:45:12,860 --> 04:45:15,500
 I agree with Commissioner Smith down there as well.

3818
04:45:15,500 --> 04:45:20,620
 >> I think that the notification, by the way, goes from your property line, not from like your domicile, so to speak.

3819
04:45:20,620 --> 04:45:22,020
 Does that make sense?

3820
04:45:22,020 --> 04:45:25,020
 >> Right, no, but I mean, from my property line to my next property line.

3821
04:45:25,020 --> 04:45:28,300
 >> So still. >> Well, I had 345 feet of frontage.

3822
04:45:28,300 --> 04:45:31,260
 And on one side and 285 feet on the other side.

3823
04:45:31,260 --> 04:45:31,820
 >> Oh yeah.

3824
04:45:31,820 --> 04:45:34,140
 >> So I would have been the only one who got a notification.

3825
04:45:34,140 --> 04:45:37,420
 >> Oh yeah. >> You know, so.

3826
04:45:37,420 --> 04:45:39,260
 >> Commissioner Panetta.

3827
04:45:39,260 --> 04:45:44,740
 >> Actually, I think I've thrown away a notice from fireside once, but, and this.

3828
04:45:44,740 --> 04:45:51,500
 My bad, I think my wife pulled it out of the recycle bin.

3829
04:45:51,500 --> 04:45:58,500
 >> Anyway, so revisiting the conversation about the setbacks.

3830
04:45:58,500 --> 04:46:02,820
 I know we had questions about why we had the distances that we had.

3831
04:46:02,820 --> 04:46:08,740
 And obviously, you know, there were questions about, you know, science, etc.

3832
04:46:08,740 --> 04:46:14,020
 It was suggested that at a future occasion,

3833
04:46:14,020 --> 04:46:21,860
 we invite Dr. Zachariah Hildebrand to discuss their studies with regards to fracking and

3834
04:46:21,860 --> 04:46:25,220
 safe distances to speak to the commission, if we could get that on there.

3835
04:46:25,220 --> 04:46:31,180
 That might be helpful in giving us a little context in what we're talking about.

3836
04:46:31,180 --> 04:46:31,900
 I mean, that's all I had.

3837
04:46:31,900 --> 04:46:36,740
 >> Commissioner Beck, I'm redrawing the request.

3838
04:46:36,740 --> 04:46:37,900
 Perfect.

3839
04:46:37,900 --> 04:46:42,660
 Richard, you have an update to my item about the city initiated rezoning.

3840
04:46:42,660 --> 04:46:44,780
 Work session date 11/20.

3841
04:46:44,780 --> 04:46:47,580
 Is that just a, are you just going to give us an update or

3842
04:46:47,580 --> 04:46:52,380
 are we actually starting to look at those properties we skipped over previously?

3843
04:46:52,380 --> 04:46:54,380
 >> I think it'll be a little bit of both.

3844
04:46:54,380 --> 04:47:00,700
 Sort of an update where we are as well as gearing up to do the sort of the round three, if you will.

3845
04:47:00,700 --> 04:47:01,200
 >> Perfect.

3846
04:47:01,200 --> 04:47:03,580
 Any other items for the matrix?

3847
04:47:06,140 --> 04:47:16,060
 >> I just want to consult with Aaron, with the city attorney on Dr. Hildebrand.

3848
04:47:16,060 --> 04:47:20,340
 I just want to make sure that there's not an issue with that.

3849
04:47:20,340 --> 04:47:26,300
 But I will get an answer right away and respond back as soon as I can.

3850
04:47:26,300 --> 04:47:28,860
 >> Thank you.

3851
04:47:28,860 --> 04:47:33,300
 Seeing no other discussion, I'll close the hearing at 10 PM.

3852
04:47:33,300 --> 04:47:33,800
 Thank you.