WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.540 >> All right, I believe I see that we do have a phone present. 00:00:07.540 --> 00:00:13.240 So we're going to call the meeting to order at 5.36 p.m. 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:18.880 And the first order of business is Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:18.880 --> 00:00:25.460 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic 00:00:25.460 --> 00:00:32.600 for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:33.600 all. 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:43.400 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one, indivisible. 00:00:43.400 --> 00:00:55.660 >> All right, for our second order of business is Presentation from Members of the Public. 00:00:55.660 --> 00:01:02.800 Does anybody have any sign up to speak? 00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:07.840 Okay, seeing none, we'll move ahead to item number three, items for consideration. 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:13.040 Before we get underway, I'd like to recognize Cameron to make some quick introductions. 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:14.040 >> Yes. 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.920 I just want to introduce, we do have a new commissioner, Dr. John Honig. 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:20.920 I'm going to pass the floor for a brief introduction. 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:27.520 >> Hi, everybody, I'm John Honig, debt native, grew up here, went off to college, grad school, 00:01:27.520 --> 00:01:33.920 got all the degrees I could find in history, and then eventually made my way back here, 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:39.720 been back here for about 10 years and worked at Imperial College. 00:01:39.720 --> 00:01:40.720 >> Great. 00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:41.720 >> Welcome, John. 00:01:41.720 --> 00:01:44.880 >> Commissioner, welcome to you with open arms. 00:01:44.880 --> 00:01:56.560 So let's see, under 3A, item 3A, number HLC 25-054, our agenda is to consider approval 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:58.560 of the September 8th minutes. 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:03.280 Do I have a motion on the second or a comment? 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.280 >> I have a motion on the second. 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:14.440 >> Okay, Patricia, Councilperson Sherman, along with Councilperson Adams, I've moved 00:02:14.440 --> 00:02:15.440 a second. 00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:18.440 All those in favor say aye. 00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:19.440 >> Aye. 00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:20.440 >> Aye. 00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:21.440 Any opposed, nay. 00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:22.440 Sounds like you're passing. 00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:36.160 All right, let's move on to item 3B, number HLC 25-0003, which is to hold a public meeting 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.080 and determine whether the presented expenses resulted in permanent improvement and a restoration 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:45.840 of the local historic landline property located at 218 North Locust Street. 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:51.560 The site's located on the southeast corner, the intersection of North Locust Street and 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:52.560 East McKinney Street. 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:56.360 I'll bet you better know it as the old post office. 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:57.360 >> Yes. 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:58.360 Thank you, Vice Chair. 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:04.120 As stated, this property is located at 218 North Locust Street at the intersection of 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:05.120 McKinney and Locust. 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.520 The owner is Tim Beatty. 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:14.600 Its original construction date for the original portion is 1919, with the early 1960s edition. 00:03:14.600 --> 00:03:17.080 This is the local landmark as it is today. 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.840 You will probably pass it quite often. 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:28.040 So I say this is for a historic landmark tax exemption, looking at section 10-128 of that 00:03:28.040 --> 00:03:30.920 partial tax exemption of designated historic sites. 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:36.480 A number of improvements and/or restoration were done, including the removal of old vinyl 00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:43.440 tiles and adhesives, some HVAC duct insulation, as well as old thermal system insulation around 00:03:43.440 --> 00:03:47.600 the piping was removed, along with consulting. 00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:54.080 Consulting fees do not qualify for improvements and/or restoration, as they do not pertain 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.920 to that general improvement and/or restoration of the historic property itself. 00:03:57.920 --> 00:04:07.760 But that total qualifying expense with that removal of consulting fees amounts to $16,252. 00:04:07.760 --> 00:04:13.680 So they did originally see the tax exemption in 2011, and it expired in 2021. 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:19.680 So we are looking at specifically section 10-128D, which looks at any additional tenure 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:25.480 of exemptions after they've had that original one, as long as they spend that minimum of 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:26.480 $10,000. 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:32.280 So staff does recommend a favorable determination presented with the exception of the consulting 00:04:32.280 --> 00:04:36.480 fees and the permanent improvement and/or restoration of the landmark property at 218 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.240 North Locust Street. 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:43.880 And I can stand for any questions, as well as the app hand is here as well if you all 00:04:43.880 --> 00:04:47.560 have any specific questions about the work that was completed. 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.360 I've got some questions. 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:58.720 >> How bad was it tearing that tile up, or was it just the flooring, which flooring came 00:04:58.720 --> 00:04:59.720 up? 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.640 >> Well, the underlayment came up with it. 00:05:01.640 --> 00:05:02.640 >> Yeah. 00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:03.640 >> So. 00:05:03.640 --> 00:05:04.640 >> No shocker there. 00:05:04.640 --> 00:05:05.640 >> But it was pretty tough, but we got it. 00:05:05.640 --> 00:05:06.640 >> All right. 00:05:06.640 --> 00:05:07.640 >> Yeah. 00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:08.640 >> Hang on. 00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:09.640 >> Amazing. 00:05:09.640 --> 00:05:10.640 It wasn't a lot of asbestos in this building. 00:05:10.640 --> 00:05:24.720 The upstairs, the flooring is-- >> My question is, there was going to be much 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:25.720 asbestos abatement. 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:28.840 >> No, it's got a clean bill of health now. 00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:29.840 >> All right. 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:30.840 >> Wow. 00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:31.840 >> Okay. 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:32.840 >> That's nice. 00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:33.840 >> More good news. 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:34.840 >> Yep. 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:40.840 >> And do you have a plan for building? 00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:41.840 >> Yes. 00:05:41.840 --> 00:05:47.560 I didn't know what you all knew and what you didn't know, but I don't know anything. 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:48.560 I have the plans here. 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:59.720 We're free to look at them, but there's 13 apartment units going in there. 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:09.640 There's a full basement in this building, and so some of them are two-story due to windows 00:06:09.640 --> 00:06:17.300 and stuff, so we're making that all work, and then there's a second floor where most 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:20.300 of the air handlers were put in at a later date. 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:27.240 We're taking all that out, and there'll be a top unit up there. 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:33.840 So it'll be 13 pretty planned to be upscale top units, so. 00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:34.840 >> Okay. 00:06:34.840 --> 00:06:39.120 >> Any plans-- >> Plan to keep the outside looking like 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:46.160 it is, except on McKinney Street, we're having to cut in some windows. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.160 >> Chair, if I may? 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:49.160 >> Yeah. 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.440 >> I just want to keep this on track and compliant with posting and such. 00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:58.440 So while this is all very fascinating, I want to refocus on the appropriateness of the tax 00:06:58.440 --> 00:06:59.440 exemption. 00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:00.440 >> Point taken. 00:07:00.440 --> 00:07:07.200 So I just will yield back to our attention to the recommendation of staff, which is to-- 00:07:07.200 --> 00:07:08.200 >> There you go. 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:15.400 >> We have a favorable termination, so I'm looking for some discussion along those lines 00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:16.400 or a motion. 00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:21.360 >> I will make a motion to approve as recommended by staff. 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:22.360 >> Seconded. 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:23.360 >> All right. 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:30.960 We have a motion by Councilperson Adams, seconded by Councilperson Black. 00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:33.960 All those in favor say aye. 00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:34.960 >> Aye. 00:07:34.960 --> 00:07:35.960 >> Aye. 00:07:35.960 --> 00:07:36.960 All opposed? 00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:37.960 Nay. 00:07:37.960 --> 00:07:42.960 Hearing no opposition, I believe it passes successfully. 00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:43.960 Good luck. 00:07:43.960 --> 00:07:44.960 >> Okay. 00:07:44.960 --> 00:07:45.960 >> Thanks for coming to see us. 00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:46.960 >> That's all we need. 00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:47.960 >> I look forward to it, yeah. 00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.960 >> We'll be in touch. 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:49.960 >> Okay. 00:07:49.960 --> 00:07:50.960 >> What about next steps? 00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:51.960 >> Where's the parking going to be? 00:07:51.960 --> 00:07:52.960 >> Ma'am? 00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:55.480 >> Where's the parking going to be? 00:07:55.480 --> 00:08:01.720 >> The parking is going to be on the, I guess it'd be the south side. 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:02.720 There's a new parking lot. 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:03.720 We're cutting in new approaches. 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.520 >> Yeah, but we don't use it now for other things. 00:08:07.520 --> 00:08:10.040 >> Yeah, I know. 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.040 As we all know, parking is a challenge. 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:14.040 >> All right. 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:15.040 >> Around the square. 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.040 >> So let's move on to item 3C. 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:18.040 >> Thank you. 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:19.040 >> Thank you. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:20.040 >> All right. 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:26.720 Item 3C, number HLC 25-069 is to hold a discussion and consider approval of the 2026 Historic 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.140 Landmark Commission meeting calendar, Cameron, which is previewed. 00:08:31.140 --> 00:08:32.140 >> Yes. 00:08:32.140 --> 00:08:38.680 So we usually have, typically have it on the second Monday of every month. 00:08:38.680 --> 00:08:44.180 You will see in this one, we have it all the way through January and February. 00:08:44.180 --> 00:08:48.820 That typical second Monday, March will be the only month out of this entire calendar 00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:49.820 year. 00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:50.820 So that will be different. 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:56.160 It'll be that very first Monday of the month on March 2nd. 00:08:56.160 --> 00:09:03.520 So if you all are comfortable with this, this looks good to you all, then you can proceed. 00:09:03.520 --> 00:09:04.520 >> All right. 00:09:04.520 --> 00:09:08.760 Mr. Vice Chair, we'll bring up a point, please. 00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:13.420 Just for everyone's information, I am on, for August, I am on the programming committee 00:09:13.420 --> 00:09:16.920 of an author's convention that meets with Providence, the weekend of our meeting. 00:09:16.920 --> 00:09:20.060 I realize that qualifies as an excused absence. 00:09:20.060 --> 00:09:24.940 I just want to put out ahead of time, very good, you know, if anyone feels like they 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:26.840 can move to another weekly meeting, be there, great. 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:29.880 If not, I'll take my excused absence and come home. 00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:30.880 Okay. 00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:33.880 Thanks for the heads up. 00:09:33.880 --> 00:09:39.280 Any other discussion or questions? 00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:49.320 Let's bring it to the meeting, it's a good sign. 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:50.320 >> Yes. 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:53.320 >> Yeah, we need to have a motion to approve, is that fair? 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.660 >> And the approval of the calendar as presented. 00:09:56.660 --> 00:09:57.660 >> Thank you, Councilman. 00:09:57.660 --> 00:09:58.660 >> I second. 00:09:58.660 --> 00:09:59.660 >> And we have a second. 00:09:59.660 --> 00:10:00.660 Councilperson Sherman. 00:10:00.660 --> 00:10:01.660 All those in favor, say aye. 00:10:01.660 --> 00:10:02.660 >> Aye. 00:10:02.660 --> 00:10:03.660 >> All those opposed, say nay. 00:10:03.660 --> 00:10:04.660 No opposition. 00:10:04.660 --> 00:10:09.940 Looks like we got our 2026 schedule. 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:10.940 >> Awesome. 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:11.940 >> Ready to play ball. 00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:12.940 >> I'll have a couple copies for you all at the next meeting. 00:10:12.940 --> 00:10:13.940 >> Sweet. 00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:14.940 All right. 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:15.940 >> You know what I'm saying, that's not true. 00:10:15.940 --> 00:10:16.940 That's changing the table. 00:10:16.940 --> 00:10:17.940 >> Oh, yeah. 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:18.940 >> Of course, of course. 00:10:18.940 --> 00:10:19.940 >> So the next item is 3D, number HC25-053. 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:36.000 To report whole discussion of your staff direction on how to recognize the former Park Place 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.000 station. 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.000 This is news to me. 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:43.000 Can't wait to hear. 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.960 >> So did everyone -- so Carly sent out an email this morning for everyone to kind of 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:57.480 review your backup packets, but this is a very small wall, as you're going to see, but 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:06.680 I did receive this letter from, I want to make sure, Miss Joyce Keenis, and she had 00:11:06.680 --> 00:11:07.680 interest. 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:12.640 She kind of just shared a little bit of the background of her family history, that her 00:11:12.640 --> 00:11:20.120 grandfather had run a service station called Park Place along University, and he was also 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:21.840 a rock collector. 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:29.560 She did have interest in if there was some way to preserve this remaining part of the 00:11:29.560 --> 00:11:30.560 wall. 00:11:30.560 --> 00:11:31.560 Like I said, it's very small. 00:11:31.560 --> 00:11:37.800 I believe Commissioner McAdams went out there this afternoon to try and locate it, and she 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:38.800 did locate it. 00:11:38.800 --> 00:11:42.760 She took a nice little -- with some assistance. 00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:49.800 So staff is just looking for direction, you know, on next steps in the backup packet. 00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:57.640 I did provide the AIS, so you can see some of the options that were provided, but just 00:11:57.640 --> 00:12:04.280 trying to get kind of direction on what you all feel is appropriate in terms of preserving 00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:08.960 this wall, or just kind of sharing the family history. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:14.440 So I also went out there this afternoon, and I had a surprising amount of feelings on this 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:15.440 one. 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.920 First of all, in addition to being a really good sample of renegotial architecture, it 00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:22.240 is an absolutely beautiful piece of folk art. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.280 I mean it's sculpture in every way that matters, and because of that, you really don't get 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:29.600 a full sense of it unless you're encountering it as a 3D object. 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:31.400 Pictures are not blue justice. 00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:39.080 Second of all, it's a really, really unique piece of commercial history, but I think what 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.160 really struck me most of all was the context. 00:12:42.160 --> 00:12:46.960 If you go downtown, if you go to Oak history, if you go to T.W.U., just being there today, 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.160 you get a pretty good sense of what the area looked like 50 or 100 years ago. 00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:54.800 If you go to West University today, there is nothing there that gives you a sense of 00:12:54.800 --> 00:12:58.000 what that place looked like 50 or 100 years ago. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.920 This is one of the last surviving pieces of that. 00:13:02.920 --> 00:13:07.560 I was actually going to encourage the city to think even bigger than their biggest case 00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:09.560 on the paper. 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:15.560 Not just an exhibit at Den Public Library, but maybe moving to the library or to North 00:13:15.560 --> 00:13:22.280 Lake Park, which I think is the closest public park to the area, as not only a piece of history, 00:13:22.280 --> 00:13:25.000 but as an art object of its own right. 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:31.760 I was also going to ask, has there been any attempt at doing a broader interpretive effort 00:13:31.760 --> 00:13:35.040 or display on West University 100 years ago? 00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:37.760 Because I think that would probably turn up some really fascinating stuff if that has 00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:38.760 not been ... 00:13:38.760 --> 00:13:39.760 No, there has been no discussion. 00:13:39.760 --> 00:13:48.960 Like I stated, staff just received a letter and that the interested party no longer lives 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.480 in Denton and just had visited recently and realized that this was the last remaining 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:59.640 piece of our family tied to Denton and just felt very strongly that if we could find a 00:13:59.640 --> 00:14:08.420 way to preserve it, or tell the story of Park Place and maybe the larger history of university, 00:14:08.420 --> 00:14:11.160 she just would be very eternally grateful for that. 00:14:11.160 --> 00:14:12.160 I found it very compelling. 00:14:12.160 --> 00:14:13.160 Is that UBH? 00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:14.160 Is that the property that it's on? 00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:15.160 Yes. 00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:24.000 I mean, obviously in the letter we gave a little bit of information that it was converted 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:25.000 in the 1930s. 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.240 There was a dairy, if I remember correctly. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.720 Do we know how long this structure was standing? 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:37.360 Do we know anything about the history of it other than what is included in that letter, 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.360 which we don't technically know. 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.040 We would need to research it to make sure. 00:14:42.040 --> 00:14:43.960 We would need to conduct additional research. 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:51.240 I did some preliminary aerial reviews and it looks like there were some additions and 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:57.400 changes made both in going through the 1930s through the 1950s. 00:14:57.400 --> 00:15:01.880 By the 1970s, it was no longer there. 00:15:01.880 --> 00:15:13.320 So it stood there, underwent some alterations, and then it was gone by the late 1970s. 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.160 But Commissioner McAdams, you took it for a bow? 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:23.480 Well, it is just such a small piece that you really don't notice it. 00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:28.760 You can just pass by and know where it's time to sit. 00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:35.200 And I suspect it will get lost if we do this, that they'll not be able to keep up with that, 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.080 and that it will be lost. 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:58.520 So it was a nice gesture of her to point that out, but I don't see a place for it. 00:15:58.520 --> 00:16:02.680 I'm afraid that it would just be lost, quite frankly. 00:16:02.680 --> 00:16:16.720 I'm happy to bring up Google Maps if that's easier, if that would be more helpful. 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:25.920 When it separated from where it was, which it obviously already is, and just placed somewhere, 00:16:25.920 --> 00:16:31.960 I'm not at all sure of the historical value of that. 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:37.640 You're talking about tax dollars now. 00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:40.120 It's a relatively small piece. 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:49.280 In fact, I had walked over to all of us before and discovered what it actually was. 00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:58.160 And the people out there don't have any knowledge about it at all. 00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:05.960 Well, I was wondering, too, whether it could be dug up, moved, and I don't know about whether 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:13.280 I don't have an opinion yet, whether I think that justifies the expense, but I'm intrigued 00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:24.360 hearing your up close and personal, if it's truly representative of some style, that there's 00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:28.920 value in relocating it. 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.480 Is that a different question? 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:36.020 Was she requesting designation where it is now? 00:17:36.020 --> 00:17:45.360 She was looking just for some type of recognition of that, of Park Place and her family's history 00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:47.240 along university. 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:54.080 She said it was up to the city, what you determined to be the style of preservation. 00:17:54.080 --> 00:17:59.360 Her first choice had been a plaque and I said, "I don't know if that's necessarily the place 00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:00.840 for just a plaque. 00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:04.760 I don't think anyone's going to actually get to enjoy it as much as you'd hope." 00:18:04.760 --> 00:18:06.440 So then it was up for interpretation. 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:09.320 So that's why it's being brought in front of the Historic Landmark Commission for you 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:14.600 all to provide staff some guidance on what might be the next steps. 00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:15.600 Yes. 00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:18.360 So if we didn't want this, could we punt it with the Public Art Commission? 00:18:18.360 --> 00:18:19.360 Yes. 00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:20.360 That's an opportunity. 00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:25.200 Okay, because yeah, I'll say this. 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.560 I have a real major concern. 00:18:27.560 --> 00:18:34.480 I mean, also, Commissioner Black raised some interesting points about this vernacular art. 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.360 Just where that is at is so precarious. 00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:40.300 It can be taken out so easily and disappear. 00:18:40.300 --> 00:18:47.520 So my instinct is, can we get it and then figure out what to do with it later? 00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:54.400 Because it'll wind up getting either run over, plowed over, or some vehicle's just going 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.200 to obliterate it, and then it'll be gone, maybe gone. 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:04.880 So because I was having a hard time judging the size, but compared to that nearby, I've 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.280 actually got a picture with my hat on top of it to give you some scale. 00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:09.280 Cool. 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.280 And your hat can go on top of it. 00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:17.680 I would say, Mr. Black, if you don't mind if we pass it on the other side. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:18.680 Okay. 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:19.680 Of course. 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:26.120 And I wonder about, obviously, it is lost out there where it is now. 00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:27.120 Yes. 00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:28.120 Right. 00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:35.240 But since nobody knows or remembers anything at all about that structure, I'm wondering, 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.760 you know, plunk that up and take it somewhere. 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:39.760 Yeah. 00:19:39.760 --> 00:19:47.720 Well, so just to, I'm just kind of spitballing here, too, for the location where it's at. 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:48.720 Thank you. 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:54.320 So, I mean, we could possibly do something, because it does tell a story, that part of 00:19:54.320 --> 00:19:59.360 town that is like non-recognizable, we can agree with that, right? 00:19:59.360 --> 00:20:07.320 But maybe it was like, I mean, some type of exhibit, embassy suite for visitors to then 00:20:07.320 --> 00:20:10.240 get an impression of what it's like for them. 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.520 Well, I was thinking that, I don't know the name of the park, but that park that's about 00:20:14.520 --> 00:20:22.160 three blocks north of there, I feel like, I mean, I have absolutely no idea how much 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:30.080 it costs to excavate and stabilize and move a structure of that sort. 00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:40.280 I don't know if that's $1,000 or $100,000, I'm sure it's $100,000. 00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:46.500 I feel like, for me, I think we need to know a little bit more about it. 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:50.600 Is it representative of what West University looked like back then? 00:20:50.600 --> 00:20:53.600 You know, maybe there's a story to tell, right? 00:20:53.600 --> 00:21:00.360 I don't know where it would be, 'cause I've never researched it, but maybe there is a story 00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:04.720 to tell about West University, just like there are other parts of the city, but I don't know 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:05.720 that story yet. 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:10.120 Well, there's also, I'm curious, because there's a missing piece, because this also might have 00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:16.520 been because of its dairy connection, Cameron immediately made me wonder about the agricultural 00:21:16.520 --> 00:21:22.920 stations that became common after the Great Depression, because there were several agricultural 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.920 stations out there on that side of town. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:32.800 And I know that Razor himself was in charge of several of those stations out there, and 00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:38.840 the ones that I have seen written up were more about like grain and like trying to develop 00:21:38.840 --> 00:21:45.840 crops that can grow here and soil rehabilitation and things like that, right from the best 00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:46.840 fall. 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:49.560 But a dairy would have been part of that. 00:21:49.560 --> 00:21:54.480 So I'm wondering if the station is more of like, that was a part of that agricultural 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.480 station system. 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.000 So more information needed, please. 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.880 So I just wanted to jump in. 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:08.600 So I guess in terms of giving staff feedback, would the next steps be for staff to essentially 00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:14.720 create an informational staff report, doing further research, and then either presenting 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:20.520 that to you all at a formal meeting or send it to you all via email for you all to read, 00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:24.600 and then we could bring it back as an item, or I could bring it back saying, you know, 00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:29.520 based off this report that I sent via email, here's the agenda item for us to assess next 00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:30.520 steps. 00:22:30.520 --> 00:22:34.240 Would that be what you want to provide in terms of staff direction, or do you want to 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:35.240 still have some more discussion? 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:40.800 I mean, it's hard for me to have too much discussion without a little bit more information 00:22:40.800 --> 00:22:41.800 about. 00:22:41.800 --> 00:22:48.600 And can we, as John suggests, also get a ballpark estimate on transporting the things someplace? 00:22:48.600 --> 00:22:51.920 Because yeah, I agree that where it is, it's not good. 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:57.160 I feel like it either needs to be, you know, maybe on one of the libraries or North Lakes 00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:58.160 Park. 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:08.520 And if that takes it out, I mean, it's an hologram situ at that point in time, but. 00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:18.760 I make a motion of maybe a staff report via email a little bit about perhaps an initial 00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:25.280 scan of perhaps its prior significance and then if there is some estimate about its reclamation 00:23:25.280 --> 00:23:33.280 of storage, and then we'll bring that up as an item for our next meeting for the agenda, 00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:39.480 if I can get a second. 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:40.480 Second. 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:41.480 Oh. 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:42.480 I guess we get a second. 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.480 All in favor? 00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:44.480 Any more discussion of the motion? 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:45.480 All in favor, aye. 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:46.480 Aye. 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.480 Aye. 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:48.480 All opposed? 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.480 Nay. 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:50.480 All right. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.480 We're moving on to item four, which is a work session. 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.480 Item four A, number HLC 25-05-1. 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:07.400 To receive a report for discussion, give staff direction regarding Denton's historic district 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:08.400 signage. 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.400 Yes. 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:10.400 Okay. 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.400 Give us the sign. 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.160 All right. 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:24.520 So after doing some research, there's not much that kind of gives the historic landmark 00:24:24.520 --> 00:24:28.520 commission, I guess, leeway in terms of creating historic signage. 00:24:28.520 --> 00:24:37.080 Also, if you want to look at your AIS and provide some background information, but the 00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:44.920 two options that we have to really play with right now are the street sign topper program. 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.360 So that's a program that started in 2022. 00:24:48.360 --> 00:24:58.520 It recognizes, if we can get it to pop up, there we go, it recognizes neighborhoods history 00:24:58.520 --> 00:25:03.280 or character, whatever the neighborhood wants it to basically do in terms of recognition 00:25:03.280 --> 00:25:04.280 for that neighborhood. 00:25:04.280 --> 00:25:09.760 Currently, we do have eight neighborhoods that are taking advantage of this. 00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:15.240 In the backup packet, I did state that there usually is a budget set aside in the city's 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.240 annual budget. 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:21.520 Unfortunately, for this fiscal year, there is no budget for the street sign topper program. 00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:26.000 So it would have to come out of the neighborhood's pocket if they have interest in it. 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:34.320 So this is one program that currently does exist that can support additional signage. 00:25:34.320 --> 00:25:41.080 Another thing that you all will see, the Oak Hickory Historic District, they do have those 00:25:41.080 --> 00:25:48.640 brown and white signs in their neighborhood, staff was not able to determine why they specifically 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:49.640 do. 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.320 I'm assuming it's because it was established in the 1980s. 00:25:53.320 --> 00:25:55.640 That's what the neighborhood wanted. 00:25:55.640 --> 00:26:01.760 But there is no actual files on hand for me to actually state as to why they specifically 00:26:01.760 --> 00:26:02.760 have those signs. 00:26:02.760 --> 00:26:03.760 So I apologize. 00:26:03.760 --> 00:26:04.760 The Oak Hickory Historic District. 00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:12.640 So I wish I could provide more information there, but that doesn't mean that that's something 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.120 that we can't talk, or like the commission can't talk about in terms of introducing those 00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:21.720 types of signs because we do have a streets department where we can introduce that kind 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.800 of signage to the historic districts to call more recognition to their historical significance. 00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:29.800 So that's up for discussion as well. 00:26:29.800 --> 00:26:35.800 And then I did want to state that in the 2019 Denton Historic Preservation Plan, there is 00:26:35.800 --> 00:26:42.880 talk about creating a more comprehensive wayfinding and interpretive signage for historic. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:48.120 And that's as part of that partnership within that 2019 Historic Preservation Plan. 00:26:48.120 --> 00:26:52.480 It does state that that is a collaboration between the Denton County Office of History 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:57.880 and Culture, the Historic Landmark Commission, as well as staff in both the county and the 00:26:57.880 --> 00:26:58.880 city level. 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:03.760 So there are some options, but there's nothing that's just clean and easy where I can say, 00:27:03.760 --> 00:27:06.960 here you all go, run with it. 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:11.400 So just wanted to kind of present you all with what's currently existing in terms of 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:17.000 programs that exist, what's in our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan for Denton, that you all 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:23.080 have some leeway in terms of working towards a future for wayfinding and signage, as well 00:27:23.080 --> 00:27:27.640 as just what kind of exists today. 00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.160 So any type of guidance that I can get from you all in terms of how to proceed with this 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.400 information, or if you just want to table it until a later date, that's fine. 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.880 Just looking for any guidance that you all have or interested to hear the discussion 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.880 as well. 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:52.000 Well, I'd like for it to be throughout the city, whatever it is, not individuals or neighborhoods, 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.560 but their side, other side, but other neighborhoods. 00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:00.240 So you mean, it should be consistent. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.240 Yes. 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:07.280 So I guess let me, I will pull up, or so I guess in terms of the signage right there, 00:28:07.280 --> 00:28:10.480 like something consistent like this for the historic districts. 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:17.200 Whatever kind of signage, cell phone, I'd like it to be consistent, consistent. 00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.200 Okay. 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.200 Well, and that would be for historic districts. 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:22.200 Yes. 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:31.360 Not necessarily the neighborhood signs, because you had a good list of areas and neighborhoods 00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:34.680 that had, they're not all historic. 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:35.680 Correct. 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.240 No, these are designated at the local level. 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.240 These are all just local neighborhoods. 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:44.160 But if they are designated at the local level as a historic district, then I think they 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.840 should all have consistent signage. 00:28:46.840 --> 00:28:48.720 Is there a way the two systems could work together? 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.760 Like maybe you've got like the big beautiful Oak Hickory style signs at the entry to the 00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:56.480 districts and main thoroughfares, and then the rest of the intersections are just the 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.000 side toppers? 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.960 So each of the districts does have those signs. 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:07.120 I just happened to use the one from Oak Hickory in the report, but it does state that all 00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:13.760 three historic districts do contain that one large sign per entry point, but they do not 00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:21.480 have the individual streets name signs that are brown and white. 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:27.600 I mean, thinking to what I see in other cities that trade well on the historical architecture, 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:34.480 the sign toppers at every intersection seem to be the fairly, seem to be best practice. 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:41.080 I should know the answer to this question, but I don't. 00:29:41.080 --> 00:29:48.080 The signage around town that directs people to various tourist sites and whatnot, do those 00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:53.120 have listings for our historic neighborhoods on them? 00:29:53.120 --> 00:30:01.080 And is that remotely within our purview or is that something that we can give guidance 00:30:01.080 --> 00:30:02.080 on? 00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:05.080 Yes, there's definitely something you all can give guidance on. 00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:11.360 That's in the, as I say, that's in the 2019 Denton Historic Preservation Plan, even with 00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:16.720 our design downtown Denton Plan, which passed in September of 2024, it talks about updating 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.920 wayfinding signage. 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.400 So anything historic that would be included in that wayfinding would be coming in front 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:28.960 of the historic landmark for review, discussion, and approval. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:36.480 I mean, I kind of like the idea, particularly the ones in the vicinity of downtown. 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:42.040 If, you know, anywhere we have signs that this is that way and this is that way or whatever, 00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:50.520 if maybe in a different color, you know, historic sites of any sort, whether that be a recognized 00:30:50.520 --> 00:30:59.360 neighborhood or something else, a courthouse kind of thing, I think that could be, I don't 00:30:59.360 --> 00:31:02.960 know, bringing in tourists right now. 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:03.960 Yeah. 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:09.560 So for historic, usually, I guess, what is considered to be, when you're looking for 00:31:09.560 --> 00:31:14.360 historical sites, you're usually looking for a brown sign with white lettering. 00:31:14.360 --> 00:31:17.960 And that's kind of universal across the US. 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.720 So there's opportunity to do that. 00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:27.800 Or there's also the opportunity, you know, I'm using Swiss Avenue in Dallas, Swiss Avenue 00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:28.800 Historic District. 00:31:28.800 --> 00:31:32.160 I'm pretty sure they have sign toppers that say Swiss Avenue Historic District, and they 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.280 have their special icon or logo. 00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:41.560 So kind of piggybacking on what Commissioner Black stated in terms of, you know, recognizing 00:31:41.560 --> 00:31:45.960 in between on those each of those streets, having a special sign topper, maybe, or recognition 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:50.320 of those historic districts, especially in terms of the street signs. 00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:55.160 So I think there's different things that we can, that you all can play with. 00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:01.600 But there's just nothing that's like clean cut saying, okay, HLC, here's your historic 00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:05.200 signage that you can utilize and run with it. 00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:06.200 I wish there was. 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.280 I wouldn't necessarily suggest like going way out of our way to start adding these types 00:32:10.280 --> 00:32:17.260 of signs but as they're, I mean, they're pretty regularly updated as it is, right, I think. 00:32:17.260 --> 00:32:18.260 For wayfinding? 00:32:18.260 --> 00:32:24.400 The signs to like various commercial sites and whatnot, tourist sites, I feel like they 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.600 get replaced every 10 years or something. 00:32:26.600 --> 00:32:30.120 I was going to say, I would say every probably 10 to 15 years. 00:32:30.120 --> 00:32:35.920 I just think that it might be a good idea that as these are being replaced to consider 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:46.880 kind of adding a new category onto them, not necessarily throwing away what we already have. 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:50.700 And I really do love the idea of, you know, creating a more comprehensive interpretive 00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:55.800 wayfinding signage, but that seems like a discussion to come back to when the city actually 00:32:55.800 --> 00:32:57.800 has a budget again. 00:32:57.800 --> 00:33:13.800 Okay, then I guess, I guess for kind of just staff guidance and direction, maybe just tabling 00:33:13.800 --> 00:33:20.840 this and bringing it back perhaps in the spring of 2026 or the summer of 2026. 00:33:20.840 --> 00:33:25.600 In terms of when we might see more movement, staff can kind of decide when it's brought 00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:28.560 back, but at least table it and I can keep it in the matrix on the side. 00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:34.280 It seems like at the moment, they don't have a lot of free time, spare time at work, right? 00:33:34.280 --> 00:33:38.640 If they're sitting there and have nothing else to do, then by all means, come up with 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:43.840 some ideas, but my impression is that there's not a lot of spare time. 00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:50.000 Well, the other factor to continue that you bring up rightly, Commissioner Helme, is to 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.080 maybe come inside the timing whenever there are street replacement sign discussions. 00:33:54.080 --> 00:33:55.080 Right. 00:33:55.080 --> 00:34:00.040 So that seems the time, like that's the opportunity to time, right, to go in and say, hey, that's 00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:01.040 the way. 00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:02.040 While you're doing that. 00:34:02.040 --> 00:34:07.040 Linear is the cost, the added cost would be mitigated quite a bit, I would imagine. 00:34:07.040 --> 00:34:08.040 Yeah. 00:34:08.040 --> 00:34:12.200 So we'll figure out a way to put a placeholder on that, but meanwhile, as far as wayfinding 00:34:12.200 --> 00:34:22.960 too, I think relatively inexpensive, perhaps, if we could also make inquiries into our IT 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.440 department about maybe getting some of these districts mapped out on, like, Google Maps. 00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:33.120 When people are driving, they notice that they're going through a historic district. 00:34:33.120 --> 00:34:38.240 I know that that's not the same as sign toppers, but at the same time, that might be something 00:34:38.240 --> 00:34:45.400 that might be, while they're in there updating maps and information, they might be able to 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:50.880 even create something that visually kind of stands out in the same way that a sign topper 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:51.880 would. 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:52.880 Yeah. 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:53.880 Yeah. 00:34:53.880 --> 00:35:01.720 And you said that the the three designated historic districts do have the entry signs. 00:35:01.720 --> 00:35:02.720 Correct. 00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:03.720 Yes. 00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:04.720 So that's Bell Avenue. 00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:05.720 Bell Avenue. 00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:06.720 Oak Hickory. 00:35:06.720 --> 00:35:07.720 Oak Hickory. 00:35:07.720 --> 00:35:08.720 West Oak area. 00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:09.720 West Oak area. 00:35:09.720 --> 00:35:10.720 Yes. 00:35:10.720 --> 00:35:12.720 Just one entry sign. 00:35:12.720 --> 00:35:15.440 No, and each entry. 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:22.520 So for Bell, we have one located here, coming off of Sherman, and then one coming off of 00:35:22.520 --> 00:35:23.520 University. 00:35:23.520 --> 00:35:24.520 It was taken out, but it has been replaced. 00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.520 It was hard to get out, unfortunately. 00:35:25.520 --> 00:35:26.520 It's not being destroyed by speeding vehicles. 00:35:26.520 --> 00:35:27.520 Right. 00:35:27.520 --> 00:35:28.520 We just need to move that wall, Matt. 00:35:28.520 --> 00:35:29.520 It's a little ramp. 00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:44.160 And then we have one for the Oak Hickory historic district located here, and then we have one 00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:47.680 coming off Hickory when you're coming eastbound. 00:35:47.680 --> 00:35:54.280 And then I believe we also have one coming off of Mons Avenue coming in. 00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:59.800 And then for West Oak area historic district, we have one on Thomas Street, we have another 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:06.600 on Oak Street, and then there was, there should be one on Marietta. 00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:11.200 So yeah, which is under construction, but there also should be one on Marietta. 00:36:11.200 --> 00:36:16.080 So that was something that I had worked on with Ron Mangita before. 00:36:16.080 --> 00:36:20.920 So those are the only three historic districts we have, and then we have historic neighborhoods? 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.280 Is that the distinction? 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:28.160 So we have three historic districts, local historic districts, and then we have two national 00:36:28.160 --> 00:36:31.600 register districts, but those are at the federal level. 00:36:31.600 --> 00:36:38.160 And then we, in terms of the street sign topper program, the neighborhoods in Southeast Eddon 00:36:38.160 --> 00:36:43.960 wanted to do more of a historic look in terms of how it was recognized as a neighborhood. 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:48.160 So they went more of the historic route, but some of the other neighborhoods that are on 00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:52.920 that list, such as Westgate Park, they just put the year it was established, and then 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.520 they did like a forest scene. 00:36:55.520 --> 00:37:00.400 So street sign toppers are up for interpretation by the neighborhood themselves, they're able 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.200 to decide how they want it designed. 00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:06.560 And Lenny, were you saying earlier you would prefer that not be the case, or are you just 00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:08.480 talking about the entry signs? 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:12.720 I know I'm talking about that. 00:37:12.720 --> 00:37:18.640 I want them generally uniform, but what they put on them may not be, but if we use brown 00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:24.960 and white signs, I'd like all the neighborhoods that are historic to be brown and white, you 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:31.600 know, not green and blue over here, and yellow and orange somewhere else. 00:37:31.600 --> 00:37:37.520 Part of that is for when somebody is looking for the neighborhoods, they're easier to spot 00:37:37.520 --> 00:37:42.320 if it's a recognizable sign, you've seen it before. 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:50.560 Do we need both of them? 00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:54.560 No, I got lots of good notes. 00:37:54.560 --> 00:37:55.560 Lots of directions? 00:37:55.560 --> 00:37:59.840 Yeah, I got lots of good directions and lots of good notes. 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:02.880 Okay, anything else? 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.280 Any other comments, observations, suggestions? 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:17.120 All right, I guess we're moving on to item 4C, number... 00:38:17.120 --> 00:38:46.000 Oh, beautification standards, that's a different one, so it's still local historic districts, 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.760 but it's a different wording, so it's the beautification standards, and it's a little 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.760 confusing, yeah. 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:59.600 So yeah, so now we're going to, this is C25-050, receive a report, hold discussion, give staff 00:38:59.600 --> 00:39:04.960 direction regarding beautification standards and/or expectations for Denton's local historic 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:05.960 districts. 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:16.800 Yes, so similarly, within our Denton Development Code, it does state that the role of the Historic 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.000 Landmark Commission and all the different procedures that fall within your purview, 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.840 such as this certificate of appropriateness, historic landmark destination, all of that, 00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.320 the main goal of the preservation program itself is to protect and enhance, develop 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:35.920 appropriate settings for such places, foster civic pride in the beauty of Denton, and then 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.800 protect and enhance city's attractions for tourists and visitors. 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:46.160 So that's the general goal of historic preservation and you all's role within that. 00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:50.960 However, that's all that's provided within the Denton Development Code. 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:59.720 So what we currently, that you all as a commission have to work with in terms of looking to how 00:39:59.720 --> 00:40:05.880 to resolve issues within the historic district now, or potentially things that can be built 00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.240 on in the future. 00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:13.000 I just shared in kind of the backup packet, but you all are probably very familiar with 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:16.120 code enforcement itself. 00:40:16.120 --> 00:40:25.720 I feel like this is such a bummer of all these work sessions because there's not a lot of 00:40:25.720 --> 00:40:26.720 things to provide. 00:40:26.720 --> 00:40:31.320 But so code enforcement and property maintenance, obviously, that's the number one thing in 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:37.480 terms of how do we keep our area and our neighborhoods looking nice, making sure that people are 00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:43.880 following code, you know, taking care of their properties itself. 00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:51.400 But outside of that, we also have some different grants and opportunities that could assist 00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:58.200 some of our neighborhoods as well as assist some of the rental property owners or renters 00:40:58.200 --> 00:41:09.840 in our different historic districts, so I did just want to share those all with you. 00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:16.440 So this is the Neighborhood Empowerment Grant, and I'm going to share just these links with 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.440 you all. 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.720 You all got them in your email, but I could just share them on the PowerPoint itself. 00:41:20.720 --> 00:41:28.560 It might be a little bit easier, but this is a reimbursement grant of up to $10,000, 00:41:28.560 --> 00:41:31.820 and it helps with physical improvements to your neighborhood. 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:34.760 It helps with public safety programs or initiatives. 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:39.360 It helps with cultural, educational, and recreational programs for the neighborhood. 00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:44.480 It also helps with a neighborhood master plan or comparable studies that focus on enhancing 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.480 the neighborhood. 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:53.880 So that is an opportunity, but the neighborhood itself would need to match that award with 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:59.560 100% through financial contributions, in-kind donations, or volunteer hours. 00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:03.200 So that is an option, and that is something that we can share with our local historic 00:42:03.200 --> 00:42:09.000 districts as an opportunity that they can take advantage of if they are interested. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:18.800 We also have our Home Owner Repair Assistance Program. 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:31.760 So this just helps with home repairs, making sure that those are staying intact and that 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.920 people have a safe and healthy place to live. 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:40.440 It also helps with roofing, which is obviously an exterior feature. 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:47.200 And then similarly, we also have the rental -- I don't want to ask Denton anything. 00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:56.120 We also have the Rental Repair Assistance, and that's up to $24,500 of financial assistance 00:42:56.120 --> 00:42:58.880 per unit for rental unit repairs. 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:04.160 So it talks about who's eligible, what kind of systems are eligible for that, the foundation 00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:05.160 repairs. 00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:10.160 That would be big for historic properties, roof repairs. 00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:16.200 So not as much as saying, "Oh, people should be doing this type of landscaping," or, "People 00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:20.960 should be maintaining it to this degree," because it's a historic district. 00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.480 But we do have some programs in place. 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:26.760 We do have some opportunities that people can take advantage of, it's just making sure 00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:31.880 that they're aware that these programs are in place and that they can take advantage 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.560 of them and utilize them. 00:43:35.560 --> 00:43:42.080 But in terms of kind of just staff direction, I don't know if it would be helpful to have 00:43:42.080 --> 00:43:48.180 community services come and talk about these additional programs that we have, or if you 00:43:48.180 --> 00:43:54.320 all have interests in maybe creating some type of standards in terms of beautification, 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:59.040 or if it's going out to these individual neighborhoods and just having a conversation and say, "Hey, 00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:02.120 you all are a tourist attraction for the city." 00:44:02.120 --> 00:44:07.640 It not only supports your property value, but you should take pride. 00:44:07.640 --> 00:44:13.160 This is the historic character and nature of our community and you're living in a really 00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:15.160 cool area. 00:44:15.160 --> 00:44:22.120 So I think it's a balance between both actual physical programs and education and kind of 00:44:22.120 --> 00:44:28.680 getting people excited about that, but just seeking any type of direction or interested 00:44:28.680 --> 00:44:29.960 to kind of hear you all's feedback. 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:35.400 But once again, I wish there was more I could offer, but this is kind of what we currently 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:39.800 have in place at the city that can kind of help with those beautification options or 00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.200 opportunities in the local historic districts. 00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:46.120 I'm sure community service is going to love this, but I think it would be great if we 00:44:46.120 --> 00:44:54.360 could come in on here, or they could come in and we could hear from them. 00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:55.360 Yeah. 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.480 I mean, I don't disagree with that. 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:04.120 I think the key thing that a city can do in these sorts of situations is try to find ways 00:45:04.120 --> 00:45:11.240 to empower the homeowners there, and money is nice, to be sure. 00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:16.080 I went to Chicago earlier this year and I took a tour of Pullman, Illinois, which is 00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:24.200 an old company town, and most of the factory buildings are gone. 00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:29.600 Like 90% of the housing is still there, and the only reason why is because over the years, 00:45:29.600 --> 00:45:35.560 developers keep trying to come in and buy up the housing and sell it and gentrify it 00:45:35.560 --> 00:45:37.160 and all this sort of stuff. 00:45:37.160 --> 00:45:42.600 But the residents care about the history, they care about the fact that those buildings 00:45:42.600 --> 00:45:48.960 were part of this company town, and I'm sure they've had financial help along the way. 00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:59.800 But the more that we can do to make homeowners feel empowered and want to preserve these 00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:03.440 neighborhoods, the better off the neighborhoods will be. 00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:10.080 If they don't care, then it doesn't matter what programs you have, it's not going to 00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:11.080 look good. 00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:18.440 In terms of action, I'm not sure what to ... But maybe, I mean, meetings with the community, 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:24.020 these sorts of things can be helpful at some point, and maybe they need to be educated 00:46:24.020 --> 00:46:25.520 on the history of that neighborhood. 00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:29.400 Some of the people in the neighborhood, I'm sure, know the history very well, but many 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:30.400 of them don't. 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:34.120 I'm not sure if that actually provided any feedback. 00:46:34.120 --> 00:46:40.440 No, I'm in agreement with you, I mean, of course there has to be some type of investment 00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:47.640 and kind of initiative on the part, but there might be another way to lean into that too. 00:46:47.640 --> 00:46:54.460 So we have some smaller groups here in town that this might offer them tools to help accelerate 00:46:54.460 --> 00:46:58.760 things that they're looking at, I'm thinking specifically of Stronger Denson. 00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:05.720 They have a Strong Towns initiative about helping to bring back neighborhoods and trying 00:47:05.720 --> 00:47:12.120 to figure out really grassroots ways that have been studied in other places to bring 00:47:12.120 --> 00:47:19.880 to Denson in order to develop more of the kind of town that we want to grow into, because 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:23.380 the thing they say all the time is like, "The growth is coming," but how do we do smart 00:47:23.380 --> 00:47:24.380 growth? 00:47:24.380 --> 00:47:27.520 How do we do deliberate strategic growth, right? 00:47:27.520 --> 00:47:30.240 Build a stronger town that we want to see. 00:47:30.240 --> 00:47:35.560 So think about how that can be used to develop areas of like Southeast Benton or some other 00:47:35.560 --> 00:47:42.360 districts here in town to elevate them to where they would then become showcase districts, 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:49.360 they could become maybe destinations in terms of having events and things like that, drawing 00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:52.360 to small business. 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:57.680 So yeah, what's the name of the lady up in North Lakes that's always angry about the 00:47:57.680 --> 00:48:02.820 lights and the crosswalks up there, she's got a Facebook group page that, yeah, yeah, 00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:07.440 I mean, she's trying to start to do pop-ups in the neighborhood and things like that. 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:10.200 And some of these down these initiatives... 00:48:10.200 --> 00:48:11.200 Pop-up what? 00:48:11.200 --> 00:48:17.800 Well, they're pop-up markets and just to get the neighborhood out and interacting to create 00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.520 a kind of destination for the neighborhood. 00:48:22.520 --> 00:48:30.160 I think to get back on topic, I think it's more so, what is your role as commissioners? 00:48:30.160 --> 00:48:35.400 What role can you all play in terms of making sure that our historic districts and any future 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:41.880 local historic districts maintain a certain level and look and make sure that they're 00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:46.480 vibrant and stay vibrant and that people are interested and want to invest in that vibrancy? 00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:47.480 Yes. 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.800 I've got two background questions and as a newish commissioner, maybe everyone else knows 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:53.640 this except me, so please forgive me. 00:48:53.640 --> 00:49:07.040 First of all, does Code Enforcement, sorry, Community Improvement Services Team recognize 00:49:07.040 --> 00:49:12.520 any property maintenance violations that are unique to historical structures or properties? 00:49:12.520 --> 00:49:14.240 Or is it the same thing forever? 00:49:14.240 --> 00:49:15.240 Same thing forever. 00:49:15.240 --> 00:49:16.240 Okay. 00:49:16.240 --> 00:49:21.080 Also similarly, I see that under the Neighborhood Empowerment Grant, there are certainly some 00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:28.120 criteria that could be interpreted as historical structures or structural designations fitting 00:49:28.120 --> 00:49:32.920 under, but do any of those programs have criteria that specifically reference historical designation 00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:36.840 as possibly a factor in a... 00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:40.960 Not that I know of, but Community Services would be the best answer to that question. 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:41.960 Okay. 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:42.960 Sorry. 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:43.960 No, those are great questions. 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:51.280 And I did just want to state that a lot of cities are now starting to get their own Code 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.440 Enforcement Officer specifically for historic properties, so maybe. 00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.640 Because you're enforcing the same rules? 00:49:58.640 --> 00:50:02.680 Well, the other cities are creating different rules for their historic districts and having 00:50:02.680 --> 00:50:06.920 a specific Code Enforcement Officer who's just dedicated to only historic properties 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:07.920 and historic landmarks. 00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:15.320 Is it possible to get a short report on best practice regarding that and what other cities 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:16.320 are doing that seems to be working or not working? 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:17.320 I would take that. 00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:18.320 Yeah. 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:19.320 My intuition tells me that Code Enforcement is not the best way to practice it. 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:20.320 Yeah. 00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:21.320 Because I think... 00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:22.320 It's not about enforcing it, it's about... 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:23.320 More care at last. 00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:24.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:25.320 I feel like that's what improves communities. 00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:26.320 Well, economic incentives, that's the reason I was kind of going in that direction is thinking 00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:27.320 about ways to incentivize interest. 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:48.640 So, I guess just to make sure, so best practice for maintaining and beautifying local historic 00:50:48.640 --> 00:50:49.640 districts? 00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:50.640 Is that accurate? 00:50:50.640 --> 00:50:51.640 Yeah. 00:50:51.640 --> 00:50:58.000 I would be interested to know the relationship of Code Enforcement, whatever they call it, 00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:03.760 and wherever we're talking about, what role they play and whether that is seen as effective. 00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:04.760 To me, I just... 00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:05.760 If anything, it makes me feel better. 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:06.760 Code Enforcement makes me be really bitter when I go mow my lawn when it's 110 degrees 00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:07.760 outside, but it's not inspiring me to create a better neighborhood. 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:26.760 I think that's a good point. 00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:41.840 Yeah, I keep feeling the education could be promoted in this, too. 00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:47.840 I keep people aware of these programs when they weren't what all the funds were in them. 00:51:47.840 --> 00:52:02.360 I don't know if this would be appropriate or not, but would a home in a historic neighborhood 00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:08.160 be given any sort of preferential treatment with regards to qualifying for any of these 00:52:08.160 --> 00:52:09.160 programs? 00:52:09.160 --> 00:52:12.160 I don't know that that is a good idea. 00:52:12.160 --> 00:52:20.680 I'm just curious if that's how it already is, or if there's anything like that in place 00:52:20.680 --> 00:52:21.680 already. 00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:24.680 That's what I was trying to get at, as well, for us not being able to do that. 00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:25.680 I don't know. 00:52:25.680 --> 00:52:26.680 I'm not sure to the answer. 00:52:26.680 --> 00:52:29.760 I think, as part of also direction to staff, is invite community services back to specifically 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:36.160 talk about these and how they can help with our local historic districts, whether they 00:52:36.160 --> 00:52:41.640 can be utilized in the same way, or they might be voted against, saying, "Oh, well, you all 00:52:41.640 --> 00:52:45.160 have tax exemption opportunities that other people don't have." 00:52:45.160 --> 00:52:48.800 So I can invite community services to have that kind of discussion. 00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:55.680 I'm not sure I want to gatekeep these programs to only people in historic districts. 00:52:55.680 --> 00:52:56.680 Yeah. 00:52:56.680 --> 00:52:57.680 Okay. 00:52:57.680 --> 00:52:58.680 Any other comments? 00:52:58.680 --> 00:52:59.680 All right. 00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:13.040 Then we're on to item 4C, number HL C25-042, "Receive a report, hold a discussion, give 00:53:13.040 --> 00:53:18.360 staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible 00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:19.360 historic properties." 00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:29.200 So this is, for those of you that are new, this is the concluding part, where if we have 00:53:29.200 --> 00:53:35.880 some historic properties around that we have questions about, we have a project matrix 00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:41.080 here that, of course, we're able to kind of jumble around and make things priorities. 00:53:41.080 --> 00:53:46.880 So this is where, if you see some pet projects running around, you can come and ask to investigate 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.920 or look at them. 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:55.280 Just by way of explanation, I, for example, went on a side quest to try to see if I could 00:53:55.280 --> 00:54:02.280 get Mr. Frosty's, who once again considered historic designation, and that became ... 00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:05.280 Did you need to get it on the side? 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:06.280 Did it work? 00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:09.920 Well, it worked for him to give me a hell no. 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:10.920 Okay. 00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.920 Okay. 00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:12.920 So that worked again. 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:13.920 I was like, wait. 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:18.920 But I keep going back and trying to find different ways to try to get him to think about historically 00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:21.920 preserving that space, right? 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:27.560 But anyway, so it's just a way for us to then bring attention and focus back to maybe something 00:54:27.560 --> 00:54:33.660 that we see now or projects that we'd like to, say, get an update on to figure out, hey, 00:54:33.660 --> 00:54:34.660 what's the history of that place? 00:54:34.660 --> 00:54:35.660 Because then I figured out, no, there's a history there. 00:54:35.660 --> 00:54:36.660 We got him several times. 00:54:36.660 --> 00:54:37.660 He ain't about it. 00:54:37.660 --> 00:54:38.660 Actually hostile. 00:54:38.660 --> 00:54:39.660 Keep trying. 00:54:39.660 --> 00:54:40.660 No, that's my point. 00:54:40.660 --> 00:54:41.660 It's like, yeah. 00:54:41.660 --> 00:54:54.840 Every single day, it's like, I'm actually really close. 00:54:54.840 --> 00:55:00.800 Do we have any ... Any historic properties? 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.800 Still no word from Oak Street? 00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:03.800 No. 00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:06.800 They're not turning anything in? 00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:07.800 No. 00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:08.800 What is this Oak Street? 00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:09.800 Oak Street. 00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:10.800 Okay, gotcha. 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:19.440 Okay, so haven't heard back from any of the 30 plus properties I sent. 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:24.640 I did get one interest from a property in Deenia neighborhood. 00:55:24.640 --> 00:55:29.040 They own a mid-century modern home. 00:55:29.040 --> 00:55:33.720 They've been inquiring about the local designation process and what that looks like and some 00:55:33.720 --> 00:55:34.720 of the incentives. 00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:39.320 They said they're not able to do anything right now, but they said they think they're 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:42.120 going to apply at the beginning of 2026. 00:55:42.120 --> 00:55:47.320 We might see one in February of 2026, come through. 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:52.120 I'm sure there's probably a very extensive document online that I can probably locate. 00:55:52.120 --> 00:55:57.840 Could you give me a Cliff Notes version of what the benefits to the property would be 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.400 in a situation like that? 00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:06.040 I am going to call you both individually to do a training with you all, but I can give 00:56:06.040 --> 00:56:09.240 you a Cliff Notes just real quick. 00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:15.240 Before that we do offer, so the tax exemption application that came forward earlier, that's 00:56:15.240 --> 00:56:21.400 one of the benefits that comes with local designation is that you can get up to, you're 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:25.920 eligible for that and you can get up to 50% of your city property tax forgiven for up 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:29.120 to 10 years and then you can reapply every 10 years. 00:56:29.120 --> 00:56:41.720 So very much the Cliff Notes, but I will connect with you all afterwards to find a good time. 00:56:41.720 --> 00:56:44.720 All right, last chance. 00:56:44.720 --> 00:56:53.000 Okay, well then we're going to move ahead to item 4D, number HLC 255043, and that's 00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:57.280 the whole of the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:03.080 Back into the matrix we go. 00:57:03.080 --> 00:57:09.080 So we've covered the historic district signage, larger discussion, beautification standards, 00:57:09.080 --> 00:57:15.840 expectations, staff will bring that back with some of those staff reports and additional 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:16.840 information. 00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:23.120 We do have the discussion and creation of a possible historic designation for North Locust 00:57:23.120 --> 00:57:27.640 and North Elm Street corridors that's going to be brought back on November 10th, along 00:57:27.640 --> 00:57:33.680 with that template and agenda for HLC members on November 10th as well. 00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:41.880 And then as we're getting closer to the end of the year, staff will be working on doing 00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:49.880 an annual update for you all in terms of the goals for 2025 and just kind of the overview 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:55.440 of how many COAs, all that kind of stuff that's reviewed, but that will be coming forward 00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:56.440 in a few months. 00:57:56.440 --> 00:58:02.720 I can't believe we're almost to the end of 2025, but yeah, is there anything additional 00:58:02.720 --> 00:58:04.560 that you all want to add to the matrix? 00:58:04.560 --> 00:58:08.920 Obviously, I have some of my marching orders from our earlier discussions, but is there 00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.720 anything additional that you all would like to add? 00:58:13.720 --> 00:58:19.880 Let's finish the year strong. 00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:22.240 Any discussion? 00:58:22.240 --> 00:58:37.520 Well, I have a question, like on some of the ones that from last year, so that was before 00:58:37.520 --> 00:58:41.080 my time today, but I'm seeing the Discuss Stop Work Order fees. 00:58:41.080 --> 00:58:42.080 Yes. 00:58:42.080 --> 00:58:52.240 The Discussion Board is working without COAs, so you had the discussion and was that implemented? 00:58:52.240 --> 00:59:01.040 No, so those were based off after the discussion, myself put those on there just because those 00:59:01.040 --> 00:59:03.120 were items that were mentioned. 00:59:03.120 --> 00:59:10.520 However, there were no formal votes taken on them to be added to the actual matrix, 00:59:10.520 --> 00:59:17.960 so they've just been sitting on there since July of 2024, so they need to be resolved. 00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:25.200 So either you can ask them to be removed, and I will remove them, or you all can take 00:59:25.200 --> 00:59:29.360 a vote and have them added to the matrix, but as of right now, they're just kind of 00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:46.320 sitting in limbo waiting for discussion or removal. 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:53.880 We can add it to the matrix one meeting, and then we are able to have a discussion the 00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:54.880 next. 00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.480 Well, so you would need to vote to have this added to the matrix, so I would need at least 00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:04.320 three people who want to add that to the matrix, and then I could bring it back as a discussion, 01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:05.320 if that was correct. 01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:08.920 Right now, these are items that I brought forward as the Historic Preservation Officer 01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:09.920 based off just past discussions. 01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.920 Well, we didn't wait to bring those up in '26. 01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:11.920 That too. 01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:12.920 Questions, comments? 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:13.920 All right, here we go. 01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:31.720 I guess we'll move to our concluding items before we have any other business to discuss. 01:00:31.720 --> 01:00:41.440 Hearing none, once, twice, three times gone, there's no other business, I'll now adjourn 01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:42.440 the meeting. 01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:44.240 It is 6.30, 6 p.m. 01:00:44.240 --> 01:00:47.880 Thank you all.