1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,540 >> All right, I believe I see that we do have a phone present. 2 00:00:07,540 --> 00:00:13,240 So we're going to call the meeting to order at 5.36 p.m. 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:18,880 And the first order of business is Pledge of Allegiance. 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:25,460 >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic 5 00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:32,600 for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 6 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:33,600 all. 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:43,400 On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God, one, indivisible. 8 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:55,660 >> All right, for our second order of business is Presentation from Members of the Public. 9 00:00:55,660 --> 00:01:02,800 Does anybody have any sign up to speak? 10 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,840 Okay, seeing none, we'll move ahead to item number three, items for consideration. 11 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,040 Before we get underway, I'd like to recognize Cameron to make some quick introductions. 12 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,040 >> Yes. 13 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,920 I just want to introduce, we do have a new commissioner, Dr. John Honig. 14 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,920 I'm going to pass the floor for a brief introduction. 15 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,520 >> Hi, everybody, I'm John Honig, debt native, grew up here, went off to college, grad school, 16 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:33,920 got all the degrees I could find in history, and then eventually made my way back here, 17 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:39,720 been back here for about 10 years and worked at Imperial College. 18 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,720 >> Great. 19 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,720 >> Welcome, John. 20 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,880 >> Commissioner, welcome to you with open arms. 21 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:56,560 So let's see, under 3A, item 3A, number HLC 25-054, our agenda is to consider approval 22 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,560 of the September 8th minutes. 23 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,280 Do I have a motion on the second or a comment? 24 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,280 >> I have a motion on the second. 25 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:14,440 >> Okay, Patricia, Councilperson Sherman, along with Councilperson Adams, I've moved 26 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:15,440 a second. 27 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,440 All those in favor say aye. 28 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,440 >> Aye. 29 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,440 >> Aye. 30 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Any opposed, nay. 31 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Sounds like you're passing. 32 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:36,160 All right, let's move on to item 3B, number HLC 25-0003, which is to hold a public meeting 33 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,080 and determine whether the presented expenses resulted in permanent improvement and a restoration 34 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,840 of the local historic landline property located at 218 North Locust Street. 35 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,560 The site's located on the southeast corner, the intersection of North Locust Street and 36 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,560 East McKinney Street. 37 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,360 I'll bet you better know it as the old post office. 38 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,360 >> Yes. 39 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,360 Thank you, Vice Chair. 40 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:04,120 As stated, this property is located at 218 North Locust Street at the intersection of 41 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,120 McKinney and Locust. 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,520 The owner is Tim Beatty. 43 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:14,600 Its original construction date for the original portion is 1919, with the early 1960s edition. 44 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,080 This is the local landmark as it is today. 45 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,840 You will probably pass it quite often. 46 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:28,040 So I say this is for a historic landmark tax exemption, looking at section 10-128 of that 47 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,920 partial tax exemption of designated historic sites. 48 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:36,480 A number of improvements and/or restoration were done, including the removal of old vinyl 49 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:43,440 tiles and adhesives, some HVAC duct insulation, as well as old thermal system insulation around 50 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,600 the piping was removed, along with consulting. 51 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:54,080 Consulting fees do not qualify for improvements and/or restoration, as they do not pertain 52 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,920 to that general improvement and/or restoration of the historic property itself. 53 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:07,760 But that total qualifying expense with that removal of consulting fees amounts to $16,252. 54 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:13,680 So they did originally see the tax exemption in 2011, and it expired in 2021. 55 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,680 So we are looking at specifically section 10-128D, which looks at any additional tenure 56 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,480 of exemptions after they've had that original one, as long as they spend that minimum of 57 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,480 $10,000. 58 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,280 So staff does recommend a favorable determination presented with the exception of the consulting 59 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:36,480 fees and the permanent improvement and/or restoration of the landmark property at 218 60 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,240 North Locust Street. 61 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:43,880 And I can stand for any questions, as well as the app hand is here as well if you all 62 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,560 have any specific questions about the work that was completed. 63 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,360 I've got some questions. 64 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:58,720 >> How bad was it tearing that tile up, or was it just the flooring, which flooring came 65 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,720 up? 66 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,640 >> Well, the underlayment came up with it. 67 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:02,640 >> Yeah. 68 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:03,640 >> So. 69 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:04,640 >> No shocker there. 70 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:05,640 >> But it was pretty tough, but we got it. 71 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:06,640 >> All right. 72 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,640 >> Yeah. 73 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,640 >> Hang on. 74 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:09,640 >> Amazing. 75 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,640 It wasn't a lot of asbestos in this building. 76 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:24,720 The upstairs, the flooring is-- >> My question is, there was going to be much 77 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:25,720 asbestos abatement. 78 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,840 >> No, it's got a clean bill of health now. 79 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:29,840 >> All right. 80 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:30,840 >> Wow. 81 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:31,840 >> Okay. 82 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:32,840 >> That's nice. 83 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:33,840 >> More good news. 84 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:34,840 >> Yep. 85 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:40,840 >> And do you have a plan for building? 86 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:41,840 >> Yes. 87 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:47,560 I didn't know what you all knew and what you didn't know, but I don't know anything. 88 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,560 I have the plans here. 89 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:59,720 We're free to look at them, but there's 13 apartment units going in there. 90 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:09,640 There's a full basement in this building, and so some of them are two-story due to windows 91 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:17,300 and stuff, so we're making that all work, and then there's a second floor where most 92 00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:20,300 of the air handlers were put in at a later date. 93 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:27,240 We're taking all that out, and there'll be a top unit up there. 94 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:33,840 So it'll be 13 pretty planned to be upscale top units, so. 95 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:34,840 >> Okay. 96 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:39,120 >> Any plans-- >> Plan to keep the outside looking like 97 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:46,160 it is, except on McKinney Street, we're having to cut in some windows. 98 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,160 >> Chair, if I may? 99 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,160 >> Yeah. 100 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,440 >> I just want to keep this on track and compliant with posting and such. 101 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:58,440 So while this is all very fascinating, I want to refocus on the appropriateness of the tax 102 00:06:58,440 --> 00:06:59,440 exemption. 103 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:00,440 >> Point taken. 104 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:07,200 So I just will yield back to our attention to the recommendation of staff, which is to-- 105 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:08,200 >> There you go. 106 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:15,400 >> We have a favorable termination, so I'm looking for some discussion along those lines 107 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:16,400 or a motion. 108 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,360 >> I will make a motion to approve as recommended by staff. 109 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:22,360 >> Seconded. 110 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,360 >> All right. 111 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:30,960 We have a motion by Councilperson Adams, seconded by Councilperson Black. 112 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,960 All those in favor say aye. 113 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:34,960 >> Aye. 114 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:35,960 >> Aye. 115 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,960 All opposed? 116 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:37,960 Nay. 117 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,960 Hearing no opposition, I believe it passes successfully. 118 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:43,960 Good luck. 119 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:44,960 >> Okay. 120 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:45,960 >> Thanks for coming to see us. 121 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:46,960 >> That's all we need. 122 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:47,960 >> I look forward to it, yeah. 123 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:48,960 >> We'll be in touch. 124 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:49,960 >> Okay. 125 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:50,960 >> What about next steps? 126 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:51,960 >> Where's the parking going to be? 127 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:52,960 >> Ma'am? 128 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,480 >> Where's the parking going to be? 129 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,720 >> The parking is going to be on the, I guess it'd be the south side. 130 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:02,720 There's a new parking lot. 131 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:03,720 We're cutting in new approaches. 132 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,520 >> Yeah, but we don't use it now for other things. 133 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,040 >> Yeah, I know. 134 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,040 As we all know, parking is a challenge. 135 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,040 >> All right. 136 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:15,040 >> Around the square. 137 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,040 >> So let's move on to item 3C. 138 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,040 >> Thank you. 139 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:19,040 >> Thank you. 140 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,040 >> All right. 141 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:26,720 Item 3C, number HLC 25-069 is to hold a discussion and consider approval of the 2026 Historic 142 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,140 Landmark Commission meeting calendar, Cameron, which is previewed. 143 00:08:31,140 --> 00:08:32,140 >> Yes. 144 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:38,680 So we usually have, typically have it on the second Monday of every month. 145 00:08:38,680 --> 00:08:44,180 You will see in this one, we have it all the way through January and February. 146 00:08:44,180 --> 00:08:48,820 That typical second Monday, March will be the only month out of this entire calendar 147 00:08:48,820 --> 00:08:49,820 year. 148 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:50,820 So that will be different. 149 00:08:50,820 --> 00:08:56,160 It'll be that very first Monday of the month on March 2nd. 150 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:03,520 So if you all are comfortable with this, this looks good to you all, then you can proceed. 151 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,520 >> All right. 152 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,760 Mr. Vice Chair, we'll bring up a point, please. 153 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,420 Just for everyone's information, I am on, for August, I am on the programming committee 154 00:09:13,420 --> 00:09:16,920 of an author's convention that meets with Providence, the weekend of our meeting. 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,060 I realize that qualifies as an excused absence. 156 00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:24,940 I just want to put out ahead of time, very good, you know, if anyone feels like they 157 00:09:24,940 --> 00:09:26,840 can move to another weekly meeting, be there, great. 158 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,880 If not, I'll take my excused absence and come home. 159 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:30,880 Okay. 160 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,880 Thanks for the heads up. 161 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:39,280 Any other discussion or questions? 162 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:49,320 Let's bring it to the meeting, it's a good sign. 163 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,320 >> Yes. 164 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,320 >> Yeah, we need to have a motion to approve, is that fair? 165 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,660 >> And the approval of the calendar as presented. 166 00:09:56,660 --> 00:09:57,660 >> Thank you, Councilman. 167 00:09:57,660 --> 00:09:58,660 >> I second. 168 00:09:58,660 --> 00:09:59,660 >> And we have a second. 169 00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:00,660 Councilperson Sherman. 170 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:01,660 All those in favor, say aye. 171 00:10:01,660 --> 00:10:02,660 >> Aye. 172 00:10:02,660 --> 00:10:03,660 >> All those opposed, say nay. 173 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:04,660 No opposition. 174 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:09,940 Looks like we got our 2026 schedule. 175 00:10:09,940 --> 00:10:10,940 >> Awesome. 176 00:10:10,940 --> 00:10:11,940 >> Ready to play ball. 177 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:12,940 >> I'll have a couple copies for you all at the next meeting. 178 00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:13,940 >> Sweet. 179 00:10:13,940 --> 00:10:14,940 All right. 180 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:15,940 >> You know what I'm saying, that's not true. 181 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:16,940 That's changing the table. 182 00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:17,940 >> Oh, yeah. 183 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:18,940 >> Of course, of course. 184 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:19,940 >> So the next item is 3D, number HC25-053. 185 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:36,000 To report whole discussion of your staff direction on how to recognize the former Park Place 186 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000 station. 187 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,000 This is news to me. 188 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Can't wait to hear. 189 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,960 >> So did everyone -- so Carly sent out an email this morning for everyone to kind of 190 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:57,480 review your backup packets, but this is a very small wall, as you're going to see, but 191 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:06,680 I did receive this letter from, I want to make sure, Miss Joyce Keenis, and she had 192 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:07,680 interest. 193 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:12,640 She kind of just shared a little bit of the background of her family history, that her 194 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:20,120 grandfather had run a service station called Park Place along University, and he was also 195 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,840 a rock collector. 196 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:29,560 She did have interest in if there was some way to preserve this remaining part of the 197 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:30,560 wall. 198 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:31,560 Like I said, it's very small. 199 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:37,800 I believe Commissioner McAdams went out there this afternoon to try and locate it, and she 200 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,800 did locate it. 201 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,760 She took a nice little -- with some assistance. 202 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:49,800 So staff is just looking for direction, you know, on next steps in the backup packet. 203 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:57,640 I did provide the AIS, so you can see some of the options that were provided, but just 204 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:04,280 trying to get kind of direction on what you all feel is appropriate in terms of preserving 205 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,960 this wall, or just kind of sharing the family history. 206 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,440 So I also went out there this afternoon, and I had a surprising amount of feelings on this 207 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,440 one. 208 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,920 First of all, in addition to being a really good sample of renegotial architecture, it 209 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,240 is an absolutely beautiful piece of folk art. 210 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,280 I mean it's sculpture in every way that matters, and because of that, you really don't get 211 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,600 a full sense of it unless you're encountering it as a 3D object. 212 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,400 Pictures are not blue justice. 213 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:39,080 Second of all, it's a really, really unique piece of commercial history, but I think what 214 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,160 really struck me most of all was the context. 215 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,960 If you go downtown, if you go to Oak history, if you go to T.W.U., just being there today, 216 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,160 you get a pretty good sense of what the area looked like 50 or 100 years ago. 217 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,800 If you go to West University today, there is nothing there that gives you a sense of 218 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,000 what that place looked like 50 or 100 years ago. 219 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,920 This is one of the last surviving pieces of that. 220 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,560 I was actually going to encourage the city to think even bigger than their biggest case 221 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,560 on the paper. 222 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:15,560 Not just an exhibit at Den Public Library, but maybe moving to the library or to North 223 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:22,280 Lake Park, which I think is the closest public park to the area, as not only a piece of history, 224 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,000 but as an art object of its own right. 225 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,760 I was also going to ask, has there been any attempt at doing a broader interpretive effort 226 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,040 or display on West University 100 years ago? 227 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,760 Because I think that would probably turn up some really fascinating stuff if that has 228 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,760 not been ... 229 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:39,760 No, there has been no discussion. 230 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:48,960 Like I stated, staff just received a letter and that the interested party no longer lives 231 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,480 in Denton and just had visited recently and realized that this was the last remaining 232 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,640 piece of our family tied to Denton and just felt very strongly that if we could find a 233 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:08,420 way to preserve it, or tell the story of Park Place and maybe the larger history of university, 234 00:14:08,420 --> 00:14:11,160 she just would be very eternally grateful for that. 235 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,160 I found it very compelling. 236 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,160 Is that UBH? 237 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:14,160 Is that the property that it's on? 238 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,160 Yes. 239 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:24,000 I mean, obviously in the letter we gave a little bit of information that it was converted 240 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,000 in the 1930s. 241 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,240 There was a dairy, if I remember correctly. 242 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,720 Do we know how long this structure was standing? 243 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:37,360 Do we know anything about the history of it other than what is included in that letter, 244 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,360 which we don't technically know. 245 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,040 We would need to research it to make sure. 246 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,960 We would need to conduct additional research. 247 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:51,240 I did some preliminary aerial reviews and it looks like there were some additions and 248 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:57,400 changes made both in going through the 1930s through the 1950s. 249 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,880 By the 1970s, it was no longer there. 250 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:13,320 So it stood there, underwent some alterations, and then it was gone by the late 1970s. 251 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,160 But Commissioner McAdams, you took it for a bow? 252 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:23,480 Well, it is just such a small piece that you really don't notice it. 253 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,760 You can just pass by and know where it's time to sit. 254 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:35,200 And I suspect it will get lost if we do this, that they'll not be able to keep up with that, 255 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,080 and that it will be lost. 256 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:58,520 So it was a nice gesture of her to point that out, but I don't see a place for it. 257 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,680 I'm afraid that it would just be lost, quite frankly. 258 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:16,720 I'm happy to bring up Google Maps if that's easier, if that would be more helpful. 259 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:25,920 When it separated from where it was, which it obviously already is, and just placed somewhere, 260 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,960 I'm not at all sure of the historical value of that. 261 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:37,640 You're talking about tax dollars now. 262 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,120 It's a relatively small piece. 263 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:49,280 In fact, I had walked over to all of us before and discovered what it actually was. 264 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:58,160 And the people out there don't have any knowledge about it at all. 265 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:05,960 Well, I was wondering, too, whether it could be dug up, moved, and I don't know about whether 266 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:13,280 I don't have an opinion yet, whether I think that justifies the expense, but I'm intrigued 267 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:24,360 hearing your up close and personal, if it's truly representative of some style, that there's 268 00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:28,920 value in relocating it. 269 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,480 Is that a different question? 270 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:36,020 Was she requesting designation where it is now? 271 00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:45,360 She was looking just for some type of recognition of that, of Park Place and her family's history 272 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,240 along university. 273 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:54,080 She said it was up to the city, what you determined to be the style of preservation. 274 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,360 Her first choice had been a plaque and I said, "I don't know if that's necessarily the place 275 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:00,840 for just a plaque. 276 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,760 I don't think anyone's going to actually get to enjoy it as much as you'd hope." 277 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,440 So then it was up for interpretation. 278 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,320 So that's why it's being brought in front of the Historic Landmark Commission for you 279 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,600 all to provide staff some guidance on what might be the next steps. 280 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,600 Yes. 281 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,360 So if we didn't want this, could we punt it with the Public Art Commission? 282 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:19,360 Yes. 283 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:20,360 That's an opportunity. 284 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:25,200 Okay, because yeah, I'll say this. 285 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,560 I have a real major concern. 286 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:34,480 I mean, also, Commissioner Black raised some interesting points about this vernacular art. 287 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,360 Just where that is at is so precarious. 288 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:40,300 It can be taken out so easily and disappear. 289 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:47,520 So my instinct is, can we get it and then figure out what to do with it later? 290 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:54,400 Because it'll wind up getting either run over, plowed over, or some vehicle's just going 291 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,200 to obliterate it, and then it'll be gone, maybe gone. 292 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:04,880 So because I was having a hard time judging the size, but compared to that nearby, I've 293 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,280 actually got a picture with my hat on top of it to give you some scale. 294 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,280 Cool. 295 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,280 And your hat can go on top of it. 296 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,680 I would say, Mr. Black, if you don't mind if we pass it on the other side. 297 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:18,680 Okay. 298 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:19,680 Of course. 299 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:26,120 And I wonder about, obviously, it is lost out there where it is now. 300 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:27,120 Yes. 301 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:28,120 Right. 302 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:35,240 But since nobody knows or remembers anything at all about that structure, I'm wondering, 303 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,760 you know, plunk that up and take it somewhere. 304 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Yeah. 305 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:47,720 Well, so just to, I'm just kind of spitballing here, too, for the location where it's at. 306 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:48,720 Thank you. 307 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,320 So, I mean, we could possibly do something, because it does tell a story, that part of 308 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,360 town that is like non-recognizable, we can agree with that, right? 309 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:07,320 But maybe it was like, I mean, some type of exhibit, embassy suite for visitors to then 310 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,240 get an impression of what it's like for them. 311 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,520 Well, I was thinking that, I don't know the name of the park, but that park that's about 312 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:22,160 three blocks north of there, I feel like, I mean, I have absolutely no idea how much 313 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:30,080 it costs to excavate and stabilize and move a structure of that sort. 314 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:40,280 I don't know if that's $1,000 or $100,000, I'm sure it's $100,000. 315 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:46,500 I feel like, for me, I think we need to know a little bit more about it. 316 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,600 Is it representative of what West University looked like back then? 317 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,600 You know, maybe there's a story to tell, right? 318 00:20:53,600 --> 00:21:00,360 I don't know where it would be, 'cause I've never researched it, but maybe there is a story 319 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,720 to tell about West University, just like there are other parts of the city, but I don't know 320 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:05,720 that story yet. 321 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,120 Well, there's also, I'm curious, because there's a missing piece, because this also might have 322 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:16,520 been because of its dairy connection, Cameron immediately made me wonder about the agricultural 323 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,920 stations that became common after the Great Depression, because there were several agricultural 324 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,920 stations out there on that side of town. 325 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:32,800 And I know that Razor himself was in charge of several of those stations out there, and 326 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,840 the ones that I have seen written up were more about like grain and like trying to develop 327 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:45,840 crops that can grow here and soil rehabilitation and things like that, right from the best 328 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:46,840 fall. 329 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,560 But a dairy would have been part of that. 330 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,480 So I'm wondering if the station is more of like, that was a part of that agricultural 331 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,480 station system. 332 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,000 So more information needed, please. 333 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,880 So I just wanted to jump in. 334 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:08,600 So I guess in terms of giving staff feedback, would the next steps be for staff to essentially 335 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:14,720 create an informational staff report, doing further research, and then either presenting 336 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,520 that to you all at a formal meeting or send it to you all via email for you all to read, 337 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,600 and then we could bring it back as an item, or I could bring it back saying, you know, 338 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,520 based off this report that I sent via email, here's the agenda item for us to assess next 339 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,520 steps. 340 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,240 Would that be what you want to provide in terms of staff direction, or do you want to 341 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:35,240 still have some more discussion? 342 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,800 I mean, it's hard for me to have too much discussion without a little bit more information 343 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,800 about. 344 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:48,600 And can we, as John suggests, also get a ballpark estimate on transporting the things someplace? 345 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,920 Because yeah, I agree that where it is, it's not good. 346 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,160 I feel like it either needs to be, you know, maybe on one of the libraries or North Lakes 347 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,160 Park. 348 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:08,520 And if that takes it out, I mean, it's an hologram situ at that point in time, but. 349 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:18,760 I make a motion of maybe a staff report via email a little bit about perhaps an initial 350 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:25,280 scan of perhaps its prior significance and then if there is some estimate about its reclamation 351 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:33,280 of storage, and then we'll bring that up as an item for our next meeting for the agenda, 352 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:39,480 if I can get a second. 353 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,480 Second. 354 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,480 Oh. 355 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,480 I guess we get a second. 356 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,480 All in favor? 357 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,480 Any more discussion of the motion? 358 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,480 All in favor, aye. 359 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,480 Aye. 360 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,480 Aye. 361 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,480 All opposed? 362 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,480 Nay. 363 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,480 All right. 364 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,480 We're moving on to item four, which is a work session. 365 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,480 Item four A, number HLC 25-05-1. 366 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:07,400 To receive a report for discussion, give staff direction regarding Denton's historic district 367 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,400 signage. 368 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,400 Yes. 369 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,400 Okay. 370 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,400 Give us the sign. 371 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,160 All right. 372 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:24,520 So after doing some research, there's not much that kind of gives the historic landmark 373 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,520 commission, I guess, leeway in terms of creating historic signage. 374 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:37,080 Also, if you want to look at your AIS and provide some background information, but the 375 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:44,920 two options that we have to really play with right now are the street sign topper program. 376 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,360 So that's a program that started in 2022. 377 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:58,520 It recognizes, if we can get it to pop up, there we go, it recognizes neighborhoods history 378 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,280 or character, whatever the neighborhood wants it to basically do in terms of recognition 379 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,280 for that neighborhood. 380 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,760 Currently, we do have eight neighborhoods that are taking advantage of this. 381 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,240 In the backup packet, I did state that there usually is a budget set aside in the city's 382 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,240 annual budget. 383 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,520 Unfortunately, for this fiscal year, there is no budget for the street sign topper program. 384 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,000 So it would have to come out of the neighborhood's pocket if they have interest in it. 385 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:34,320 So this is one program that currently does exist that can support additional signage. 386 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:41,080 Another thing that you all will see, the Oak Hickory Historic District, they do have those 387 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:48,640 brown and white signs in their neighborhood, staff was not able to determine why they specifically 388 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,640 do. 389 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,320 I'm assuming it's because it was established in the 1980s. 390 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,640 That's what the neighborhood wanted. 391 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:01,760 But there is no actual files on hand for me to actually state as to why they specifically 392 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,760 have those signs. 393 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:03,760 So I apologize. 394 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,760 The Oak Hickory Historic District. 395 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:12,640 So I wish I could provide more information there, but that doesn't mean that that's something 396 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,120 that we can't talk, or like the commission can't talk about in terms of introducing those 397 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:21,720 types of signs because we do have a streets department where we can introduce that kind 398 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,800 of signage to the historic districts to call more recognition to their historical significance. 399 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,800 So that's up for discussion as well. 400 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,800 And then I did want to state that in the 2019 Denton Historic Preservation Plan, there is 401 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:42,880 talk about creating a more comprehensive wayfinding and interpretive signage for historic. 402 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:48,120 And that's as part of that partnership within that 2019 Historic Preservation Plan. 403 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,480 It does state that that is a collaboration between the Denton County Office of History 404 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,880 and Culture, the Historic Landmark Commission, as well as staff in both the county and the 405 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,880 city level. 406 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,760 So there are some options, but there's nothing that's just clean and easy where I can say, 407 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,960 here you all go, run with it. 408 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,400 So just wanted to kind of present you all with what's currently existing in terms of 409 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,000 programs that exist, what's in our 2019 Historic Preservation Plan for Denton, that you all 410 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:23,080 have some leeway in terms of working towards a future for wayfinding and signage, as well 411 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,640 as just what kind of exists today. 412 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:33,160 So any type of guidance that I can get from you all in terms of how to proceed with this 413 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,400 information, or if you just want to table it until a later date, that's fine. 414 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,880 Just looking for any guidance that you all have or interested to hear the discussion 415 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,880 as well. 416 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:52,000 Well, I'd like for it to be throughout the city, whatever it is, not individuals or neighborhoods, 417 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,560 but their side, other side, but other neighborhoods. 418 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,240 So you mean, it should be consistent. 419 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,240 Yes. 420 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:07,280 So I guess let me, I will pull up, or so I guess in terms of the signage right there, 421 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,480 like something consistent like this for the historic districts. 422 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:17,200 Whatever kind of signage, cell phone, I'd like it to be consistent, consistent. 423 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,200 Okay. 424 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,200 Well, and that would be for historic districts. 425 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,200 Yes. 426 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:31,360 Not necessarily the neighborhood signs, because you had a good list of areas and neighborhoods 427 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,680 that had, they're not all historic. 428 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,680 Correct. 429 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,240 No, these are designated at the local level. 430 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,240 These are all just local neighborhoods. 431 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:44,160 But if they are designated at the local level as a historic district, then I think they 432 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,840 should all have consistent signage. 433 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,720 Is there a way the two systems could work together? 434 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,760 Like maybe you've got like the big beautiful Oak Hickory style signs at the entry to the 435 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,480 districts and main thoroughfares, and then the rest of the intersections are just the 436 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,000 side toppers? 437 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,960 So each of the districts does have those signs. 438 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,120 I just happened to use the one from Oak Hickory in the report, but it does state that all 439 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,760 three historic districts do contain that one large sign per entry point, but they do not 440 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:21,480 have the individual streets name signs that are brown and white. 441 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:27,600 I mean, thinking to what I see in other cities that trade well on the historical architecture, 442 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:34,480 the sign toppers at every intersection seem to be the fairly, seem to be best practice. 443 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:41,080 I should know the answer to this question, but I don't. 444 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:48,080 The signage around town that directs people to various tourist sites and whatnot, do those 445 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,120 have listings for our historic neighborhoods on them? 446 00:29:53,120 --> 00:30:01,080 And is that remotely within our purview or is that something that we can give guidance 447 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,080 on? 448 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,080 Yes, there's definitely something you all can give guidance on. 449 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:11,360 That's in the, as I say, that's in the 2019 Denton Historic Preservation Plan, even with 450 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,720 our design downtown Denton Plan, which passed in September of 2024, it talks about updating 451 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,920 wayfinding signage. 452 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,400 So anything historic that would be included in that wayfinding would be coming in front 453 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,960 of the historic landmark for review, discussion, and approval. 454 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:36,480 I mean, I kind of like the idea, particularly the ones in the vicinity of downtown. 455 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:42,040 If, you know, anywhere we have signs that this is that way and this is that way or whatever, 456 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:50,520 if maybe in a different color, you know, historic sites of any sort, whether that be a recognized 457 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:59,360 neighborhood or something else, a courthouse kind of thing, I think that could be, I don't 458 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,960 know, bringing in tourists right now. 459 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:03,960 Yeah. 460 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,560 So for historic, usually, I guess, what is considered to be, when you're looking for 461 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,360 historical sites, you're usually looking for a brown sign with white lettering. 462 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,960 And that's kind of universal across the US. 463 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,720 So there's opportunity to do that. 464 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:27,800 Or there's also the opportunity, you know, I'm using Swiss Avenue in Dallas, Swiss Avenue 465 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,800 Historic District. 466 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,160 I'm pretty sure they have sign toppers that say Swiss Avenue Historic District, and they 467 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,280 have their special icon or logo. 468 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,560 So kind of piggybacking on what Commissioner Black stated in terms of, you know, recognizing 469 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,960 in between on those each of those streets, having a special sign topper, maybe, or recognition 470 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,320 of those historic districts, especially in terms of the street signs. 471 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,160 So I think there's different things that we can, that you all can play with. 472 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:01,600 But there's just nothing that's like clean cut saying, okay, HLC, here's your historic 473 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200 signage that you can utilize and run with it. 474 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,200 I wish there was. 475 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,280 I wouldn't necessarily suggest like going way out of our way to start adding these types 476 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:17,260 of signs but as they're, I mean, they're pretty regularly updated as it is, right, I think. 477 00:32:17,260 --> 00:32:18,260 For wayfinding? 478 00:32:18,260 --> 00:32:24,400 The signs to like various commercial sites and whatnot, tourist sites, I feel like they 479 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,600 get replaced every 10 years or something. 480 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,120 I was going to say, I would say every probably 10 to 15 years. 481 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,920 I just think that it might be a good idea that as these are being replaced to consider 482 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:46,880 kind of adding a new category onto them, not necessarily throwing away what we already have. 483 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,700 And I really do love the idea of, you know, creating a more comprehensive interpretive 484 00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:55,800 wayfinding signage, but that seems like a discussion to come back to when the city actually 485 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,800 has a budget again. 486 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:13,800 Okay, then I guess, I guess for kind of just staff guidance and direction, maybe just tabling 487 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:20,840 this and bringing it back perhaps in the spring of 2026 or the summer of 2026. 488 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,600 In terms of when we might see more movement, staff can kind of decide when it's brought 489 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,560 back, but at least table it and I can keep it in the matrix on the side. 490 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:34,280 It seems like at the moment, they don't have a lot of free time, spare time at work, right? 491 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,640 If they're sitting there and have nothing else to do, then by all means, come up with 492 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,840 some ideas, but my impression is that there's not a lot of spare time. 493 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:50,000 Well, the other factor to continue that you bring up rightly, Commissioner Helme, is to 494 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,080 maybe come inside the timing whenever there are street replacement sign discussions. 495 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,080 Right. 496 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,040 So that seems the time, like that's the opportunity to time, right, to go in and say, hey, that's 497 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040 the way. 498 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,040 While you're doing that. 499 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,040 Linear is the cost, the added cost would be mitigated quite a bit, I would imagine. 500 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,040 Yeah. 501 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,200 So we'll figure out a way to put a placeholder on that, but meanwhile, as far as wayfinding 502 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:22,960 too, I think relatively inexpensive, perhaps, if we could also make inquiries into our IT 503 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:27,440 department about maybe getting some of these districts mapped out on, like, Google Maps. 504 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:33,120 When people are driving, they notice that they're going through a historic district. 505 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:38,240 I know that that's not the same as sign toppers, but at the same time, that might be something 506 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:45,400 that might be, while they're in there updating maps and information, they might be able to 507 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,880 even create something that visually kind of stands out in the same way that a sign topper 508 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:51,880 would. 509 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,880 Yeah. 510 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:53,880 Yeah. 511 00:34:53,880 --> 00:35:01,720 And you said that the the three designated historic districts do have the entry signs. 512 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:02,720 Correct. 513 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,720 Yes. 514 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:04,720 So that's Bell Avenue. 515 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,720 Bell Avenue. 516 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:06,720 Oak Hickory. 517 00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:07,720 Oak Hickory. 518 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:08,720 West Oak area. 519 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:09,720 West Oak area. 520 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:10,720 Yes. 521 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,720 Just one entry sign. 522 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,440 No, and each entry. 523 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:22,520 So for Bell, we have one located here, coming off of Sherman, and then one coming off of 524 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,520 University. 525 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:24,520 It was taken out, but it has been replaced. 526 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,520 It was hard to get out, unfortunately. 527 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:26,520 It's not being destroyed by speeding vehicles. 528 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,520 Right. 529 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,520 We just need to move that wall, Matt. 530 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:29,520 It's a little ramp. 531 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:44,160 And then we have one for the Oak Hickory historic district located here, and then we have one 532 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,680 coming off Hickory when you're coming eastbound. 533 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:54,280 And then I believe we also have one coming off of Mons Avenue coming in. 534 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,800 And then for West Oak area historic district, we have one on Thomas Street, we have another 535 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:06,600 on Oak Street, and then there was, there should be one on Marietta. 536 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,200 So yeah, which is under construction, but there also should be one on Marietta. 537 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,080 So that was something that I had worked on with Ron Mangita before. 538 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,920 So those are the only three historic districts we have, and then we have historic neighborhoods? 539 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,280 Is that the distinction? 540 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:28,160 So we have three historic districts, local historic districts, and then we have two national 541 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,600 register districts, but those are at the federal level. 542 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:38,160 And then we, in terms of the street sign topper program, the neighborhoods in Southeast Eddon 543 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,960 wanted to do more of a historic look in terms of how it was recognized as a neighborhood. 544 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,160 So they went more of the historic route, but some of the other neighborhoods that are on 545 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,920 that list, such as Westgate Park, they just put the year it was established, and then 546 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,520 they did like a forest scene. 547 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,400 So street sign toppers are up for interpretation by the neighborhood themselves, they're able 548 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,200 to decide how they want it designed. 549 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,560 And Lenny, were you saying earlier you would prefer that not be the case, or are you just 550 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,480 talking about the entry signs? 551 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,720 I know I'm talking about that. 552 00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:18,640 I want them generally uniform, but what they put on them may not be, but if we use brown 553 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,960 and white signs, I'd like all the neighborhoods that are historic to be brown and white, you 554 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,600 know, not green and blue over here, and yellow and orange somewhere else. 555 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:37,520 Part of that is for when somebody is looking for the neighborhoods, they're easier to spot 556 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,320 if it's a recognizable sign, you've seen it before. 557 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:50,560 Do we need both of them? 558 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,560 No, I got lots of good notes. 559 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,560 Lots of directions? 560 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,840 Yeah, I got lots of good directions and lots of good notes. 561 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,880 Okay, anything else? 562 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,280 Any other comments, observations, suggestions? 563 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:17,120 All right, I guess we're moving on to item 4C, number... 564 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:46,000 Oh, beautification standards, that's a different one, so it's still local historic districts, 565 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,760 but it's a different wording, so it's the beautification standards, and it's a little 566 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:52,760 confusing, yeah. 567 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:59,600 So yeah, so now we're going to, this is C25-050, receive a report, hold discussion, give staff 568 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,960 direction regarding beautification standards and/or expectations for Denton's local historic 569 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:05,960 districts. 570 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:16,800 Yes, so similarly, within our Denton Development Code, it does state that the role of the Historic 571 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,000 Landmark Commission and all the different procedures that fall within your purview, 572 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,840 such as this certificate of appropriateness, historic landmark destination, all of that, 573 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,320 the main goal of the preservation program itself is to protect and enhance, develop 574 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,920 appropriate settings for such places, foster civic pride in the beauty of Denton, and then 575 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,800 protect and enhance city's attractions for tourists and visitors. 576 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:46,160 So that's the general goal of historic preservation and you all's role within that. 577 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,960 However, that's all that's provided within the Denton Development Code. 578 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:59,720 So what we currently, that you all as a commission have to work with in terms of looking to how 579 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:05,880 to resolve issues within the historic district now, or potentially things that can be built 580 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,240 on in the future. 581 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:13,000 I just shared in kind of the backup packet, but you all are probably very familiar with 582 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,120 code enforcement itself. 583 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:25,720 I feel like this is such a bummer of all these work sessions because there's not a lot of 584 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:26,720 things to provide. 585 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:31,320 But so code enforcement and property maintenance, obviously, that's the number one thing in 586 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:37,480 terms of how do we keep our area and our neighborhoods looking nice, making sure that people are 587 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:43,880 following code, you know, taking care of their properties itself. 588 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:51,400 But outside of that, we also have some different grants and opportunities that could assist 589 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:58,200 some of our neighborhoods as well as assist some of the rental property owners or renters 590 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:09,840 in our different historic districts, so I did just want to share those all with you. 591 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:16,440 So this is the Neighborhood Empowerment Grant, and I'm going to share just these links with 592 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:17,440 you all. 593 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,720 You all got them in your email, but I could just share them on the PowerPoint itself. 594 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:28,560 It might be a little bit easier, but this is a reimbursement grant of up to $10,000, 595 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,820 and it helps with physical improvements to your neighborhood. 596 00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:34,760 It helps with public safety programs or initiatives. 597 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,360 It helps with cultural, educational, and recreational programs for the neighborhood. 598 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,480 It also helps with a neighborhood master plan or comparable studies that focus on enhancing 599 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:45,480 the neighborhood. 600 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:53,880 So that is an opportunity, but the neighborhood itself would need to match that award with 601 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,560 100% through financial contributions, in-kind donations, or volunteer hours. 602 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,200 So that is an option, and that is something that we can share with our local historic 603 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:09,000 districts as an opportunity that they can take advantage of if they are interested. 604 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:18,800 We also have our Home Owner Repair Assistance Program. 605 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:31,760 So this just helps with home repairs, making sure that those are staying intact and that 606 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,920 people have a safe and healthy place to live. 607 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:40,440 It also helps with roofing, which is obviously an exterior feature. 608 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:47,200 And then similarly, we also have the rental -- I don't want to ask Denton anything. 609 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:56,120 We also have the Rental Repair Assistance, and that's up to $24,500 of financial assistance 610 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,880 per unit for rental unit repairs. 611 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,160 So it talks about who's eligible, what kind of systems are eligible for that, the foundation 612 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,160 repairs. 613 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:10,160 That would be big for historic properties, roof repairs. 614 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:16,200 So not as much as saying, "Oh, people should be doing this type of landscaping," or, "People 615 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,960 should be maintaining it to this degree," because it's a historic district. 616 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,480 But we do have some programs in place. 617 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,760 We do have some opportunities that people can take advantage of, it's just making sure 618 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,880 that they're aware that these programs are in place and that they can take advantage 619 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,560 of them and utilize them. 620 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:42,080 But in terms of kind of just staff direction, I don't know if it would be helpful to have 621 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:48,180 community services come and talk about these additional programs that we have, or if you 622 00:43:48,180 --> 00:43:54,320 all have interests in maybe creating some type of standards in terms of beautification, 623 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,040 or if it's going out to these individual neighborhoods and just having a conversation and say, "Hey, 624 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,120 you all are a tourist attraction for the city." 625 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,640 It not only supports your property value, but you should take pride. 626 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:13,160 This is the historic character and nature of our community and you're living in a really 627 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,160 cool area. 628 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:22,120 So I think it's a balance between both actual physical programs and education and kind of 629 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,680 getting people excited about that, but just seeking any type of direction or interested 630 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,960 to kind of hear you all's feedback. 631 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,400 But once again, I wish there was more I could offer, but this is kind of what we currently 632 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,800 have in place at the city that can kind of help with those beautification options or 633 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,200 opportunities in the local historic districts. 634 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,120 I'm sure community service is going to love this, but I think it would be great if we 635 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:54,360 could come in on here, or they could come in and we could hear from them. 636 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,360 Yeah. 637 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,480 I mean, I don't disagree with that. 638 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:04,120 I think the key thing that a city can do in these sorts of situations is try to find ways 639 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:11,240 to empower the homeowners there, and money is nice, to be sure. 640 00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:16,080 I went to Chicago earlier this year and I took a tour of Pullman, Illinois, which is 641 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:24,200 an old company town, and most of the factory buildings are gone. 642 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:29,600 Like 90% of the housing is still there, and the only reason why is because over the years, 643 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:35,560 developers keep trying to come in and buy up the housing and sell it and gentrify it 644 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,160 and all this sort of stuff. 645 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:42,600 But the residents care about the history, they care about the fact that those buildings 646 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:48,960 were part of this company town, and I'm sure they've had financial help along the way. 647 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:59,800 But the more that we can do to make homeowners feel empowered and want to preserve these 648 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,440 neighborhoods, the better off the neighborhoods will be. 649 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:10,080 If they don't care, then it doesn't matter what programs you have, it's not going to 650 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,080 look good. 651 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:18,440 In terms of action, I'm not sure what to ... But maybe, I mean, meetings with the community, 652 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:24,020 these sorts of things can be helpful at some point, and maybe they need to be educated 653 00:46:24,020 --> 00:46:25,520 on the history of that neighborhood. 654 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,400 Some of the people in the neighborhood, I'm sure, know the history very well, but many 655 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,400 of them don't. 656 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,120 I'm not sure if that actually provided any feedback. 657 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:40,440 No, I'm in agreement with you, I mean, of course there has to be some type of investment 658 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:47,640 and kind of initiative on the part, but there might be another way to lean into that too. 659 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:54,460 So we have some smaller groups here in town that this might offer them tools to help accelerate 660 00:46:54,460 --> 00:46:58,760 things that they're looking at, I'm thinking specifically of Stronger Denson. 661 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:05,720 They have a Strong Towns initiative about helping to bring back neighborhoods and trying 662 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:12,120 to figure out really grassroots ways that have been studied in other places to bring 663 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:19,880 to Denson in order to develop more of the kind of town that we want to grow into, because 664 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,380 the thing they say all the time is like, "The growth is coming," but how do we do smart 665 00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:24,380 growth? 666 00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:27,520 How do we do deliberate strategic growth, right? 667 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,240 Build a stronger town that we want to see. 668 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:35,560 So think about how that can be used to develop areas of like Southeast Benton or some other 669 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:42,360 districts here in town to elevate them to where they would then become showcase districts, 670 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:49,360 they could become maybe destinations in terms of having events and things like that, drawing 671 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,360 to small business. 672 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,680 So yeah, what's the name of the lady up in North Lakes that's always angry about the 673 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,820 lights and the crosswalks up there, she's got a Facebook group page that, yeah, yeah, 674 00:48:02,820 --> 00:48:07,440 I mean, she's trying to start to do pop-ups in the neighborhood and things like that. 675 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,200 And some of these down these initiatives... 676 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,200 Pop-up what? 677 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:17,800 Well, they're pop-up markets and just to get the neighborhood out and interacting to create 678 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,520 a kind of destination for the neighborhood. 679 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:30,160 I think to get back on topic, I think it's more so, what is your role as commissioners? 680 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:35,400 What role can you all play in terms of making sure that our historic districts and any future 681 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:41,880 local historic districts maintain a certain level and look and make sure that they're 682 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,480 vibrant and stay vibrant and that people are interested and want to invest in that vibrancy? 683 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:47,480 Yes. 684 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,800 I've got two background questions and as a newish commissioner, maybe everyone else knows 685 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,640 this except me, so please forgive me. 686 00:48:53,640 --> 00:49:07,040 First of all, does Code Enforcement, sorry, Community Improvement Services Team recognize 687 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,520 any property maintenance violations that are unique to historical structures or properties? 688 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,240 Or is it the same thing forever? 689 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:15,240 Same thing forever. 690 00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:16,240 Okay. 691 00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:21,080 Also similarly, I see that under the Neighborhood Empowerment Grant, there are certainly some 692 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:28,120 criteria that could be interpreted as historical structures or structural designations fitting 693 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,920 under, but do any of those programs have criteria that specifically reference historical designation 694 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,840 as possibly a factor in a... 695 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,960 Not that I know of, but Community Services would be the best answer to that question. 696 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:41,960 Okay. 697 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:42,960 Sorry. 698 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,960 No, those are great questions. 699 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:51,280 And I did just want to state that a lot of cities are now starting to get their own Code 700 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,440 Enforcement Officer specifically for historic properties, so maybe. 701 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,640 Because you're enforcing the same rules? 702 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,680 Well, the other cities are creating different rules for their historic districts and having 703 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,920 a specific Code Enforcement Officer who's just dedicated to only historic properties 704 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:07,920 and historic landmarks. 705 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:15,320 Is it possible to get a short report on best practice regarding that and what other cities 706 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:16,320 are doing that seems to be working or not working? 707 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,320 I would take that. 708 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:18,320 Yeah. 709 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,320 My intuition tells me that Code Enforcement is not the best way to practice it. 710 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:20,320 Yeah. 711 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:21,320 Because I think... 712 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,320 It's not about enforcing it, it's about... 713 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:23,320 More care at last. 714 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 715 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:25,320 I feel like that's what improves communities. 716 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:26,320 Well, economic incentives, that's the reason I was kind of going in that direction is thinking 717 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,320 about ways to incentivize interest. 718 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:48,640 So, I guess just to make sure, so best practice for maintaining and beautifying local historic 719 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:49,640 districts? 720 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:50,640 Is that accurate? 721 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:51,640 Yeah. 722 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:58,000 I would be interested to know the relationship of Code Enforcement, whatever they call it, 723 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,760 and wherever we're talking about, what role they play and whether that is seen as effective. 724 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:04,760 To me, I just... 725 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:05,760 If anything, it makes me feel better. 726 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:06,760 Code Enforcement makes me be really bitter when I go mow my lawn when it's 110 degrees 727 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:07,760 outside, but it's not inspiring me to create a better neighborhood. 728 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:26,760 I think that's a good point. 729 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:41,840 Yeah, I keep feeling the education could be promoted in this, too. 730 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,840 I keep people aware of these programs when they weren't what all the funds were in them. 731 00:51:47,840 --> 00:52:02,360 I don't know if this would be appropriate or not, but would a home in a historic neighborhood 732 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:08,160 be given any sort of preferential treatment with regards to qualifying for any of these 733 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:09,160 programs? 734 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,160 I don't know that that is a good idea. 735 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:20,680 I'm just curious if that's how it already is, or if there's anything like that in place 736 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:21,680 already. 737 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,680 That's what I was trying to get at, as well, for us not being able to do that. 738 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:25,680 I don't know. 739 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:26,680 I'm not sure to the answer. 740 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,760 I think, as part of also direction to staff, is invite community services back to specifically 741 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:36,160 talk about these and how they can help with our local historic districts, whether they 742 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,640 can be utilized in the same way, or they might be voted against, saying, "Oh, well, you all 743 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,160 have tax exemption opportunities that other people don't have." 744 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,800 So I can invite community services to have that kind of discussion. 745 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:55,680 I'm not sure I want to gatekeep these programs to only people in historic districts. 746 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:56,680 Yeah. 747 00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,680 Okay. 748 00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:58,680 Any other comments? 749 00:52:58,680 --> 00:52:59,680 All right. 750 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:13,040 Then we're on to item 4C, number HL C25-042, "Receive a report, hold a discussion, give 751 00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:18,360 staff direction on the Historic Landmark Commission's request for local historic designation of eligible 752 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:19,360 historic properties." 753 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:29,200 So this is, for those of you that are new, this is the concluding part, where if we have 754 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:35,880 some historic properties around that we have questions about, we have a project matrix 755 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:41,080 here that, of course, we're able to kind of jumble around and make things priorities. 756 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:46,880 So this is where, if you see some pet projects running around, you can come and ask to investigate 757 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,920 or look at them. 758 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:55,280 Just by way of explanation, I, for example, went on a side quest to try to see if I could 759 00:53:55,280 --> 00:54:02,280 get Mr. Frosty's, who once again considered historic designation, and that became ... 760 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,280 Did you need to get it on the side? 761 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:06,280 Did it work? 762 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,920 Well, it worked for him to give me a hell no. 763 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:10,920 Okay. 764 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:11,920 Okay. 765 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:12,920 So that worked again. 766 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:13,920 I was like, wait. 767 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,920 But I keep going back and trying to find different ways to try to get him to think about historically 768 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,920 preserving that space, right? 769 00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:27,560 But anyway, so it's just a way for us to then bring attention and focus back to maybe something 770 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:33,660 that we see now or projects that we'd like to, say, get an update on to figure out, hey, 771 00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:34,660 what's the history of that place? 772 00:54:34,660 --> 00:54:35,660 Because then I figured out, no, there's a history there. 773 00:54:35,660 --> 00:54:36,660 We got him several times. 774 00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:37,660 He ain't about it. 775 00:54:37,660 --> 00:54:38,660 Actually hostile. 776 00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:39,660 Keep trying. 777 00:54:39,660 --> 00:54:40,660 No, that's my point. 778 00:54:40,660 --> 00:54:41,660 It's like, yeah. 779 00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:54,840 Every single day, it's like, I'm actually really close. 780 00:54:54,840 --> 00:55:00,800 Do we have any ... Any historic properties? 781 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,800 Still no word from Oak Street? 782 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:03,800 No. 783 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,800 They're not turning anything in? 784 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:07,800 No. 785 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:08,800 What is this Oak Street? 786 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:09,800 Oak Street. 787 00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:10,800 Okay, gotcha. 788 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:19,440 Okay, so haven't heard back from any of the 30 plus properties I sent. 789 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:24,640 I did get one interest from a property in Deenia neighborhood. 790 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:29,040 They own a mid-century modern home. 791 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,720 They've been inquiring about the local designation process and what that looks like and some 792 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:34,720 of the incentives. 793 00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:39,320 They said they're not able to do anything right now, but they said they think they're 794 00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,120 going to apply at the beginning of 2026. 795 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:47,320 We might see one in February of 2026, come through. 796 00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,120 I'm sure there's probably a very extensive document online that I can probably locate. 797 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,840 Could you give me a Cliff Notes version of what the benefits to the property would be 798 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,400 in a situation like that? 799 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:06,040 I am going to call you both individually to do a training with you all, but I can give 800 00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,240 you a Cliff Notes just real quick. 801 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:15,240 Before that we do offer, so the tax exemption application that came forward earlier, that's 802 00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:21,400 one of the benefits that comes with local designation is that you can get up to, you're 803 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,920 eligible for that and you can get up to 50% of your city property tax forgiven for up 804 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,120 to 10 years and then you can reapply every 10 years. 805 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:41,720 So very much the Cliff Notes, but I will connect with you all afterwards to find a good time. 806 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:44,720 All right, last chance. 807 00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:53,000 Okay, well then we're going to move ahead to item 4D, number HLC 255043, and that's 808 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,280 the whole of the discussion regarding the Historic Landmark Commission Project Matrix. 809 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:03,080 Back into the matrix we go. 810 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:09,080 So we've covered the historic district signage, larger discussion, beautification standards, 811 00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:15,840 expectations, staff will bring that back with some of those staff reports and additional 812 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:16,840 information. 813 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:23,120 We do have the discussion and creation of a possible historic designation for North Locust 814 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,640 and North Elm Street corridors that's going to be brought back on November 10th, along 815 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:33,680 with that template and agenda for HLC members on November 10th as well. 816 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:41,880 And then as we're getting closer to the end of the year, staff will be working on doing 817 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:49,880 an annual update for you all in terms of the goals for 2025 and just kind of the overview 818 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,440 of how many COAs, all that kind of stuff that's reviewed, but that will be coming forward 819 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,440 in a few months. 820 00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:02,720 I can't believe we're almost to the end of 2025, but yeah, is there anything additional 821 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,560 that you all want to add to the matrix? 822 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:08,920 Obviously, I have some of my marching orders from our earlier discussions, but is there 823 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:13,720 anything additional that you all would like to add? 824 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:19,880 Let's finish the year strong. 825 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,240 Any discussion? 826 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:37,520 Well, I have a question, like on some of the ones that from last year, so that was before 827 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,080 my time today, but I'm seeing the Discuss Stop Work Order fees. 828 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,080 Yes. 829 00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:52,240 The Discussion Board is working without COAs, so you had the discussion and was that implemented? 830 00:58:52,240 --> 00:59:01,040 No, so those were based off after the discussion, myself put those on there just because those 831 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,120 were items that were mentioned. 832 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:10,520 However, there were no formal votes taken on them to be added to the actual matrix, 833 00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:17,960 so they've just been sitting on there since July of 2024, so they need to be resolved. 834 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:25,200 So either you can ask them to be removed, and I will remove them, or you all can take 835 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:29,360 a vote and have them added to the matrix, but as of right now, they're just kind of 836 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:46,320 sitting in limbo waiting for discussion or removal. 837 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:53,880 We can add it to the matrix one meeting, and then we are able to have a discussion the 838 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:54,880 next. 839 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,480 Well, so you would need to vote to have this added to the matrix, so I would need at least 840 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:04,320 three people who want to add that to the matrix, and then I could bring it back as a discussion, 841 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:05,320 if that was correct. 842 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,920 Right now, these are items that I brought forward as the Historic Preservation Officer 843 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:09,920 based off just past discussions. 844 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,920 Well, we didn't wait to bring those up in '26. 845 01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:11,920 That too. 846 01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:12,920 Questions, comments? 847 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:13,920 All right, here we go. 848 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:31,720 I guess we'll move to our concluding items before we have any other business to discuss. 849 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:41,440 Hearing none, once, twice, three times gone, there's no other business, I'll now adjourn 850 01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:42,440 the meeting. 851 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,240 It is 6.30, 6 p.m. 852 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,880 Thank you all.